Legislative Assembly 5183 14 October 1993

THURSDAY, 14 OCTOBER 1993 other States and the Commonwealth. These burgeoning unfunded superannuation liabilities in other States, currently estimated at over $43 billion, represent a substantial Mr SPEAKER (Hon. J. Fouras, Ashgrove) financial burden on future generations of read prayers and took the chair at 10 a.m. taxpayers and have become a source of growing concern to the community generally. Queensland alone has acted responsibly PAPERS to properly fund its public sector The following papers were laid on the superannuation schemes on an ongoing table— actuarial basis. Because of its responsible (a) Deputy Premier, Minister for approach to superannuation funding, the Administrative Services and Minister for Queensland Government is able to maintain Rural Communities (Mr Burns)— its continued commitment to the levels of Report of an Inquiry into superannuation coverage it provides for its replacement schools for Herberton employees and to the benefits provided. and Mission Beach— Government The superannuation schemes for response Queensland public sector employees are (b) Minister for Employment, Training and designed to provide those employees with a Industrial Relations (Mr Foley)— reasonable retirement income so that they are Department of Employment, self-sufficient in their retirement and not Vocational Education, Training and dependent on the commitment of future Industrial Relations— Annual Report generations of taxpayers via the social security for 1992Ð93. system. In comparison, both the New South Wales and Victorian Governments have not funded their public sector superannuation FEES PAID BY CROWN TO BARRISTERS schemes, have experienced the detrimental AND SOLICITORS impact that the unfunded liabilities have on Return to Order the financial standing of their State and have Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba— Minister been forced to substantially curtail their former for Justice and Attorney-General and Minister commitments to public sector superannuation. for the Arts) (10.02 a.m.): I lay on the table of The new schemes for New South Wales the House the return to the order of the and Victoria are to be pitched at the lowest Legislative Assembly of 27 August 1993 in common denominator—the minimum level of relation to payments made by the contribution required under the Government to barristers and solicitors during Commonwealth superannuation guarantee the 1992-93 financial year, including the legislation. This is currently 5 per cent, names of the recipients and the amounts intended to rise to 9 per cent by the end of received separately. I do this on behalf of the the century. Department of Justice and Attorney-General. In comparison, Queensland Government The department acted in a coordinating employees all have access to Q Super, a capacity only in preparing the final document. scheme which incorporates a standard member contribution of 5 per cent and a MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Government contribution of up to 14.55 per cent—that is, a total contribution of almost 20 Superannuation Management by per cent. Further, Queensland Government Queensland Government employees will continue to have the certainty Hon. K. E. De LACY (Cairns— Treasurer) and security of knowing exactly what the value (10.03 a.m.), by leave: Honourable members of their retirement benefits will be. Under Q may have read recently of radical changes to Super the benefits are clearly defined as a public sector superannuation arrangements in percentage of salary and guaranteed by the Victoria, following on similar changes in New Government. South Wales last year. The purpose of this In contrast, the southern States have statement is to reassure Queensland public abandoned this model to adopt instead the servants that the Goss Government has uncertainty of much less secure accumulation absolutely no intention of going down the arrangements. What this means is that New Kennett/Fahey road. South Wales and Victoria have transferred the Unfunded superannuation arrangements superannuation investment risk from for public sector employees are the norm in all themselves to their employees by changing 14 October 1993 5184 Legislative Assembly from defined benefit to accumulation style creditably by comparison on all matters of schemes. On top of this, they lack a highly policy through our parliamentary and Cabinet professional and successful funds manager based system of Government which puts us in such as the Queensland Investment a much stronger position to deal with change Corporation, which has consistently compared with the US system in the several outperformed the industry average for States that I visited. investment returns. There is no doubt that there are a series These cutbacks in public sector of changes needed in Queensland to ensure superannuation may assist those States in that water management is achieving its their attempts to achieve a measure of objectives. I am now more than ever financial stability. However, they will also convinced of the need for new legislation, to produce a new generation of retirees who will which I have previously alluded, which would not have sufficient income in retirement to draw together and modernise management of achieve the same financial self-sufficiency that all natural resources. their Queensland counterparts will have—and I saw several instances where the water what is more, the taxpayers of tomorrow will allocation systems in the United States, fed by be called upon to make up the difference. melting snows, led the managers of those By the responsible management of its schemes to encourage high water use, superannuation liabilities, the Queensland regardless of environmental and other Government has achieved a much superior consequences. We must ensure that financial situation for the State and its Queensland policies never lead us this way employees—not just for today but for and that water is not locked up and tomorrow’s generation as well. I am certain unavailable to those who will use it that Queensland public servants recognise productively. I found that, contrary to some that, in addition to working in a State free of Australian beliefs, most water supplies for the mass sackings of southern States, their agriculture in the USA have been very heavily retirement benefits are both secure and subsidised by the Federal Government and realistic, as opposed to the uncertain, other agencies, and the pricing policies are substandard arrangements of their southern now helping to distort agricultural markets. I State counterparts. believe that we must be very clear on our long-term objectives as we establish a new water pricing policy for Queensland. I MINISTERIAL STATEMENT inspected also the damage to levee banks as Overseas Visit by Minister for Primary a result of the massive floods in the Industries Mississippi River around St Louis, and I feel Hon. E. D. CASEY (Mackay—Minister for for those whose properties have been Primary Industries) (10.07 a.m.), by leave: I devastated. wish to report to the House on my recent trip With regard to the European sector of my to the United States and Europe. The first part trip—discussions covered trade, trade policy, dealt with water resource issues in the USA, food and consultancies and purchasing by the and the second part dealt with discussions in international organisations concerned with Europe regarding Queensland trade with the emphasis on livestock and agricultural European Community and the work of the products and fisheries. The highlights included QDPI for the Food and Agriculture a meeting with Dr Edward Saouma, Director- Organisation of the United Nations, World General of the FAO; the establishment of Food Program and International Fund for ongoing links with the Sugar Division of the Agricultural Development. European Communities; and an undertaking The first week of my trip explored the from the World Food Program to provide major policy areas discussed in recently details of global non-food purchasing where released water strategy and pricing our present share of the market is only 0.48 documents as well as institutional per cent, compared with 1.33 per cent on arrangements in the United States water foodstuffs. industry in a country that has such programs My discussions with Dr De Haen, running continuously for over 100 years. I Assistant Director-General, Agriculture spoke to both urban and agricultural sections Department of FAO, were most encouraging of the industry, as well as respected from Queensland’s perspective. He was not academics and Government agencies at the aware of the range of consultancies available local, State and Federal level. It is quite from the private sector and my department apparent that Queensland is performing very and has requested details of training facilities Legislative Assembly 5185 14 October 1993 and courses for which Queensland has proven purchase cigarettes unchallenged from a expertise. This information is being provided range of retail outlets. The amazing thing is and I am confident that Queensland will that in most cases the children were wearing obtain a greater share of consultancy work school uniforms at the time of purchase. from the FAO in the near future. My visit has The Juvenile Smoking Suppression Act reinforced Australia’s official representations, it was introduced originally as a social control has particularly broadened Queensland’s mechanism at a time when it was considered contact spread, and it has led to an increased socially unacceptable for children to smoke. At knowledge by those European organisations that time, there was no awareness of the of our place in the world’s food and fibre serious health hazards associated with chain. smoking, nor of the link between the For the Europe trip, I was accompanied increased likelihood of people becoming long- by the Director—Europe of the Trade and term smokers and the age at which they take Investment Development Division and Agent- up the habit. General, Mr Anderson, who will be doing The simple, unfortunate fact is that 70 further follow-up work on behalf of the per cent of current adult smokers in Queensland Government. I table a detailed Queensland started smoking before they itinerary of my visit to the United States of turned 18. The most recent study on juvenile America and Europe from 19 September to 4 smoking trends in Queensland suggested that October 1993 and details of my meetings with up to 30 000 secondary school students various organisations during that period. between the ages of 12 and 15 smoke regularly. That same study found that 97.5 per MINISTERIAL STATEMENT cent of 15-year-olds and 70 per cent of 14- year-olds had purchased their last packet of Juvenile Smoking Suppression Act cigarettes themselves. They are disturbingly Hon. K. W. HAYWARD high figures, which the community as a whole (Kallangur—Minister for Health) (10.11 a.m.), should view with great concern. The apparent by leave: Earlier this week, I released a copy failure of existing juvenile smoking legislation of a discussion paper for the purpose of is an indictment of retailers who appear to be eliciting community comment on and input avoiding their moral and legal responsibility into a planned review of the Juvenile Smoking and a reflection of the community’s apathy Suppression Act of 1905. Community towards seeing the law upheld. feedback from the paper’s recommendations The discussion paper does not will form the basis for a review of the Juvenile necessarily reflect Government policy or any Smoking Suppression Act, which has particular position that the Government is remained unchanged since it was introduced committed to endorsing. Its purpose is to 88 years ago. The paper’s principal stimulate community comment so that the recommendations are— replacement legislation can represent increase the minimum legal age for the community attitudes as closely as practicable. sale of cigarettes to 18 years—currently For the information of members, I table a copy 16 years; of the discussion paper, with the hope that all increase the fine for the sale of cigarettes members will take a close interest in its to an underage person to $1,000; contents. not introduce a system of tobacco Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is there any other licences or restrict the existing range of business? over-the-counter retail outlets; Mr Gibbs interjected. introduce a code of conduct for the use Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the Minister of vending machines; and for Tourism under Standing Order 123A. prohibit the use of parallel marketing techniques by tobacco companies. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE The need for a review of the Juvenile Information Commissioner Smoking Suppression Act was highlighted by a recent Queensland Health survey which Mr BORBIDGE: In directing a question to showed how easily children under the age of the Premier, I refer to concerns expressed by 16 can purchase cigarettes from a range of the Ombudsman in regard to his future role as retail outlets. In 83 per cent of 452 attempts, Information Commissioner, and I ask: will the children who were more than 16 years old but Premier now reject proposals to replace the looked decidedly younger were able to Information Commissioner’s role under the 14 October 1993 5186 Legislative Assembly

FOI Act with yet another bureaucracy at an Brisbane Casino FOI Request estimated cost of $18.5m? Mr BORBIDGE: In directing a question to Mr W. K. GOSS: I believe that the the Treasurer, I refer to obstruction by his original decision made by the Government to department concerning an FOI request give that role of Information Commissioner to relating to probity checks for the Brisbane the Ombudsman reflects the concern and Casino which resulted in the Attorney-General desire of this Government to minimise stopping an appeal to the Information bureaucracy and the increase in bureaucracy. Commissioner, and I ask: why did the I believe that our decision in that regard is Treasurer’s department deny the existence of completely consistent with the point that the relevant documents, and on what grounds did Ombudsman seeks to make. Furthermore, I he ask the Attorney-General to override that believe that it is consistent with the point that appeal? the Leader of the Opposition is trying to draw Mr De LACY: It should come as no out today. The final decision is yet to go surprise to the Opposition or, indeed, to the before Cabinet—as are a number of other Gold Coast Bulletin that the Department of outstanding EARC reforms. It will be Treasury and I maintained our consistent considered on its merits when it gets to policy in relation to probity checks. Probity Cabinet. Ultimately, it will come into this place. checks will not be made public for two Members should be aware that, over the reasons. Firstly, people and companies tender past four years or so in Queensland, a on the basis that probity investigations into plethora of independent watchdogs of one their businesses will not be spread around the sort or another have been recommended by a front pages of the newspapers of Australia. If range of bodies. Two of them came from the we started to do that, then the quality of the tenders that we receive would be seriously Fitzgerald report, namely, EARC and the CJC. diminished. Secondly, probity information is EARC and the CJC have themselves given to the Government on the basis that it contributed to a debate that has seen will not be spread across the newspapers of recommendation after recommendation for Australia. If we did that, then our access to some new independent body or a new inquiry probity information would be cut off. Not only into this, that or the other thing. I have made do we not discuss probity checks or probity the point publicly on a number of information, but we do not even discuss the occasions—most recently at a conference of existence or otherwise of probity checks. One district and county court judges from Australia would not have to be very bright to know that and New Zealand—that, as a community, we there were probity checks carried out, because have to be concerned that we do not build up the Casino Control Act requires probity checks an excess of process and suffer from the to be carried out on all tenderers for casinos in results. Queensland. This Government will be mindful of that. It Mr W. K. Goss: Were they published will also be mindful of the territorial battles that under the previous Government? bureaucrats and would-be bureaucrats fight Mr De LACY: Did the Opposition publish out with each other. The Government has them when it was in Government? Did the already pursued the course of action that the Opposition have freedom of information Ombudsman seems to be recommending. legislation when it was in Government? No, it We have already made that decision. We now did everything in secret. The National Party, in have another report to consider. If we did not Opposition, has a new-found desire for consider it properly and in the right way, the accountability. The reason why this Leader of the Opposition would be the first Government denied access to that probity person to complain about our ignoring the check is that it has a consistent policy not to Fitzgerald process. The Government and I are discuss probity checks, and that policy will mindful of the sentiment expressed in the remain. Leader of the Opposition’s question. I assure him that there is considerable sympathy for that viewpoint in terms of the general Correctional Services Staff Training sentiment in the Government, because we are Mr PITT: In directing my first question to also concerned about process and taxpayers’ the Minister for Consumer Affairs and Minister dollars. This matter will be considered in due for Corrective Services, I refer him to the course in the proper way. Kennedy report, which was highly critical of the lack of training available to Corrective Services Legislative Assembly 5187 14 October 1993 staff. I ask: can he detail to the House what force that will auger well for the future of reforms have taken place in this area? correctional institutions in Queensland. Mr MILLINER: I thank the honourable member for his question because it is a very Community Service and Fine Option Orders important and timely question. Obviously, in this day and age, if we are to have a highly Mr PITT: I direct my second question to qualified work force that is able to perform its the Minister for Consumer Affairs and Minister duties, training is a very important part of for Corrective Services, and I ask: can he industry. It is interesting to refer to Mr inform the House of the value to the Kennedy’s report and what he said in it about community of work performed by offenders the lack of training in correctional institutions in under community service orders and fine Queensland. He indicated that, just prior to option orders? the writing of his report, the total sum of Mr MILLINER: Again, I thank the money that had been spent on training for the honourable member for the question because entire State of Queensland had been it is very timely to remind the community of the approximately $85,000, which is not a lot of value of community service orders. Obviously, money when one considers the number of we have moved to a much more community- people who were employed and the need for based correctional system, in which offenders training in correctional institutions. Obviously, are repaying their debt to society by working that was one of the major areas that had to within the society in which they offended. That be addressed in the reform of Corrective has very positive beneficial effects to Services. everybody concerned. It obviously is of benefit This financial year, the Government is to the offender and, in many cases, we find spending approximately $2m on the training offenders are returning to the projects that of staff in Corrective Services. It is very they worked on, and are continuing to work on interesting to note that the training college has them after they have exhausted the number developed an associate diploma course in of hours that were allotted to them as part of a corrections, which has been accredited. Those fine option order. That obviously is of people who successfully complete that course tremendous benefit to the community. will be given a credit of half a degree at a It is very much a win/win situation, university. That is most unusual for an because it is very expensive to keep someone associate diploma course because it is in a correctional institution. It can cost up to normally only a credit of a third of a degree. $50,000 a year per offender, and the cost of The staff at the training college are to be keeping someone in the community under congratulated on developing that associate supervision is obviously much less than that. diploma course. So those orders are beneficial for the taxpayer When that course was developed, as well as the offender. The community is the Corrective Services initially thought that major beneficiary of this system. Last year, 1.5 approximately 40 or 50 people would enrol. To million hours of community service was our surprise and amazement, we are completed in Queensland. If one places a absolutely delighted to say that, today, dollar value on that, it equates to $16m worth approximately 400 people are enrolled in that of work that has been completed in the associate diploma course, which is beyond our community by people repaying their debt to wildest expectations. Quite clearly, that society. The winners out of that work are indicates that the staff in Corrective Services organisations that normally would not have are very keen to embark on training. It is also major resources available to them—church very interesting to note that Mr Kennedy, in organisations, sporting organisations and the his report, talks about the prison officer surf lifesaving movement. They have all been culture. There is no doubt that there was a beneficiaries of community service orders. So culture among prison officers in correctional it is a very valuable, integral part of our institutions. We recognised the need to correctional system. change that prison officer culture, and the best way to do that was in the recruitment of Education staff and the ongoing training of that staff. I am very pleased to report that of the last 40 Mrs SHELDON: I direct my first question applicants who were successful in gaining to the Minister for Education. On Tuesday in employment as custodial correctional officers, this place, we debated the 1993-94 Estimates 50 per cent have tertiary qualifications. So we for the Education Department. I ask: will he are getting a very skilled and qualified work now confirm that those budget figures are out of date following a meeting of the State ALP 14 October 1993 5188 Legislative Assembly caucus yesterday in which Labor members posed by these animals, I ask the Minister: were given lists of new secondary what have he and his department done to schoolteacher numbers for each secondary eradicate them? school in their electorates? Will the Minister Mr CASEY: Let me put the record also confirm that secondary schoolteacher straight. The honourable member refers to an numbers will be cut by 403, and not the outbreak of anthrax. budgeted figure of 454? Will he specify which schools will receive these 51 extra teachers, Mr Livingstone interjected. and how many of these schools are in Labor Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member electorates? for Ipswich West under Standing Order 123A. Mr COMBEN: Once again, it is difficult to Mr CASEY: There was a case of anthrax give a direct and proper answer to a question identified in a dead cow and in 10 feral pigs that is in four parts. However, I will do the best that apparently had eaten from the carcass. I can. If the member passed over a copy of To put the record straight, I also indicate that the question to me, I would be able do better. the property owner initially discovered the The numbers that were discussed by me dead cow back on 2 or 3 August, and did not in caucus yesterday are totally consistent with do anything about it at all himself until he the budget. It has taken us some weeks to came across the pigs at a later time. Early in make sure that that is so. The member September, when his wife reported the matter referred to approximately 400 teachers to the Department of Primary Industries in coming out of secondary schools. That is not Rockhampton, it was indicated clearly to her so. We are certainly downsizing the secondary that, as is the case with property owners when sector, but the numbers out of schools is they find dead stock and cannot account for approximately 280. We are still working on the actual reason for the death, she should those figures. The member’s figures are totally contact her own local vet to identify the wrong. What was the third or the fourth part of problem. The local vet referred tissue to the the question? Rockhampton Department of Primary Industries laboratory for examination. Mrs Sheldon: Will the Minister specify which schools will get these 51 extra Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. The teachers? Minister stated earlier in his answer—— Mr COMBEN: I do not know from where Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of the member gets that figure of 51 extra order. teachers. However, I give the member an Mr Perrett interjected. undertaking in this place that the figures have Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable been calculated by departmental officers on member for Barambah will withdraw that the basis of need throughout Queensland. comment. It is a reflection on the Chair. There will be no extra teachers allocated to a Labor electorate. There will be extra Mr PERRETT: I withdraw. teachers—and I have no idea what that figure Mr CASEY: As a result, extensive tests of 51 represents—and we will place 250 extra were then undertaken by the department both primary school teachers into the system on in Rockhampton and at its laboratories here in the basis of needs. Brisbane. These tests identified that the case was anthrax. I point out that this is the first case ever reported in cattle in Queensland. Anthrax There was in the 1930s an identification of Mrs SHELDON: In directing my second anthrax in sheep in Queensland. That, too, question to the Minister for Primary Industries, was very rare. I refer him to the recent outbreak of the Mr Santoro interjected. deadly disease anthrax in central Queensland and the crippling impact any further such Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member outbreaks could have on our beef industry, for Clayfield under Standing Order 123A. not to mention the physical danger to human Mr CASEY: Anthrax had been identified life; and I draw his attention to the fact that in sheep in Queensland in a case in 1935, the outbreak occurred adjacent to the which is almost 60 years ago. There were Shoalwater Bay army training area, in which some cases in horses identified at about the the United Graziers’ Association estimates same time. They were both minor cases. there are 2 500 wild horses, 1 000 wild cows However, anthrax is quite common,in New and 300 calves, plus feral pigs and dingoes. South Wales and Victoria. In view of the now proven disease threat Legislative Assembly 5189 14 October 1993

After the cases were identified as reoffending is to offer genuine rehabilitation, anthrax, the Department of Primary Industries and a staged release back into the swung into action, hindered, I might add, by community. It is very important for the Mr Lester, the member for Keppel, who community to understand that 99.9 per cent bounced out of the boxes—immediately of offenders who go to gaol return to the followed by the member for Barambah—and community. The Government has an stated that the outbreak of anthrax was due to obligation to ensure that they return to the the fact that there were insufficient people in community better than they were when they the Department of Primary Industries. What a entered the system. Traditionally, around the lot of rot! Anthrax is a virus that develops in world the reimprisonment rate is approximately soil. The procedures were properly carried out 60 per cent. In Australia, that is the average by the people in the region. The Department figure, although in one year Queensland had of Primary Industries incurred costs of the worst figure, with a 63 per cent approximately $60,000 to $100,000. We will reimprisonment rate. have the final figures by the end of this week. I am very pleased to inform the House The Minister for Tourism, who took over my that, as a result of the programs initiated by portfolio during my absence, did an excellent the Corrective Services Commission and this job. Government, the reimprisonment rate in Mrs SHELDON: I rise to a point of order. Queensland today is 47 per cent, which is the Standing Order 70 says that the answer has lowest in Australia. We will continue to work to to be relevant to the question. So far the reduce that figure to as low a figure as we Minister has not answered my question. possibly can. Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of order. Corrective Services Mr LIVINGSTONE: I ask: can the Minister Corrective Services for Consumer Affairs and Minister for Corrective Services inform the House how the Mr LIVINGSTONE: I ask the Minister for Corrective Services Commission has been Consumer Affairs and Minister for Corrective able to help rural Queensland in these difficult Services: can he inform the House how the times? reimprisonment rate in Queensland has changed since the implementation of the Mr MILLINER: I once again thank the reforms in the Corrective Services system? honourable member for his question. It is very important that I relate to the House the Mr MILLINER: I thank the honourable benefits of Corrective Services to rural member for his very important question when Queensland. Obviously, because of a number one looks at whether the Corrective Services of factors, rural Queensland is going through system in Queensland has, in fact, been very difficult times, as it has been over the working properly. It is very interesting to return past few years. All honourable members will to the Kennedy report to see what Mr recall the disastrous floods that inundated the Kennedy had to say about prisoners who were Charleville area three years ago. My leaving the system. He said— colleague, Mr Mackenroth, who was the “Many prisoners were released worse Minister for Emergency Services at the time, than when they went in. journeyed to Charleville and made a request to Corrective Services that we supply to him a To simply release prisoners at the main work force to assist in the clean-up of gate of a jail is to encourage recidivism Charleville. We were only too happy to supply and place the community in a situation of 130 prisoners to Charleville to help in the increased risk—this cannot continue. clean-up. Reintegration and post-prison community- based programs are the same thing.” As a result of that exercise, we were able to initiate a scheme under which we had low- He went on to say that a check of all security inmates living in western Queensland prisoners released in one week revealed that towns and performing community work. As far most had less than $10 on them when they as Corrective Services is concerned, this left the institution. Obviously, this led to a scheme has been an outstanding success. It situation in which offenders reoffended very really is a win/win situation. The local quickly in order to survive. communities are winning. Last year, I had the This Government has changed the pleasure of visiting the sites of all the emphasis from correction to rehabilitation. community work schemes throughout One of the best ways to stop people from Queensland and talking to the members of 14 October 1993 5190 Legislative Assembly those communities. I was told that the Mr ELLIOTT: I rise to a point of order. I inmates are doing an outstanding job. I would wish to make a quick comment and say that I like to place on record a tribute to Mr Bunny was sick at the time—— Powne, the Deputy Chairman of the Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member Queensland Corrective Services Commission, for Cunningham under Standing Order 123A. for the role that he has played in ensuring that this scheme is working. Mr ELLIOTT: I wish to say that I was sick at the time when that hearing was held. The It is very interesting to look at the benefit Minister is implying that because we did not that this scheme has been to communities. attend that hearing, we did not care. I was sick Last year, $800,000 was paid to staff and for at the time. purchases in those areas. Communities out west that are having difficulties are receiving a Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for financial injection from staff employed in those Cunningham! I am on my feet. I have asked areas. It is also very important to look at the the honourable member to resume his seat. It amount of community work that is being is not a point of order. I call the member for completed in those areas. If one places a Beaudesert. dollar value on the work that is being Mr ELLIOTT: Mr Speaker—— completed in those areas, last year there was Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the $2m worth of work that would not have honourable member under Standing Order otherwise been completed, so it really is a 124. win/win situation. Mr ELLIOTT: I wish to make a personal—— Primary Industries Department Staff Cuts Mr SPEAKER: Order! No, the honourable Mr LINGARD: In asking a question of the member cannot. Minister for Primary Industries, I refer to the Mr ELLIOTT: I have been personally comments of the General Manager of the misrepresented. I find it offensive to me. Finance Division in his department stating that the DPI has suffered a significant loss of skills Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the due to people resigning, leaving for other honourable member under Standing Order reasons or taking voluntary early retirement, 124 for the last time. which left him with very few people to actually manage the organisation at a senior level. I Primary Industries Department Staff Cuts ask: does the Minister agree that the massive cuts in staff in his department has been one Mr LINGARD: In directing a question to of the reasons for the recent criticisms of his the Minister for Primary Industries, I refer to department’s performance? the massive staff cuts in his department and to reports that it will continue to lose between Mr CASEY: The honourable member is 400 and 500 staff per year for the next seven referring again to a series of events within my years until it is reduced to a policy-making unit department in the early stages of 1991-92 without a Minister, and I ask: will staff cuts in that has been canvassed before on a number the Minister’s department continue? of occasions in this House and is currently under further review by the Parliamentary Mr CASEY: The honourable member Committee for Public Accounts. The ought to direct his allegation to the honourable member made reference to the honourable member for Barambah, who recent hearing held by the committee. That seems to be the only person who knows committee is in the throes of compiling its anything about the matter. In the debate on report and tabling it in this House. I will await the Estimates for the Department of Primary the tabling of that report and any Industries, the honourable member for recommendations contained in it. I look Barambah said that the Government would forward to the recommendations that the gradually reduce staff numbers in the Auditor-General may make on the matter. department until they were down to about 500 people. When the honourable member writes However, it is amazing to see the sudden his column for the South Burnett concern by members of the National Party Times—which, incidentally, is the only about the hearing of the Public Accounts newspaper that will publish it—he sits there Committee in relation to the Department of and imagines things. Primary Industries. On the day that the public hearing was held, the two National Party I remind honourable members that the representatives on that committee failed to Department of Primary Industries now attend. comprises what were three major Legislative Assembly 5191 14 October 1993 departments, that is, the former Primary Telecom’s point of view, the move is based on Industries Department, the Water Resources the logic that Queensland is a growing Commission and the Forest Service, as well as economy. It is based on that growth factor. the Boating and Fisheries Patrol. In Opposition members have always been fairly restructuring those departments, efficiencies quick to jump on the doom and gloom wagon, were to be gained by the Goss Government in but I do not hear any comment from them. the same way as efficiencies were to be They have no criticism today of Telecom’s gained by downsizing the whole of move to Brisbane? I did not think so. Government in this State from 27 The Queensland economy is growing, departments to 18 departments. The and it represents new markets for companies Department of Primary Industries is no sacred such as Telecom. I will illustrate the point with cow. It is treated in the same manner as every Telecom’s own figures. Business connections other department is treated. It must take its for Telecom are growing at approximately 7.7 share of whatever changes and adjustments per cent per year in Queensland, compared are necessary in terms of the money that is with 6.5 per cent in New South Wales and 4.8 provided by the taxpayers of Queensland. per cent in Victoria. Overall demand for When it becomes necessary to make any telecommunication services is increasing by 6 changes, we will do that. per cent annually and is far higher in growth If the honourable member were to take areas such as the Sunshine Coast. That notice, he would realise that, in recent weeks, should be of interest to the member for the Department of Primary Industries has Caloundra. Importantly, Queensland accounts been putting on additional staff. It has for more than 20 per cent of business traffic changed to different programs and found calls. That growth is outstripping the different ways of doing things. The requirements in both Sydney and in department will continue to maintain its service Melbourne. to the primary producers of this State. In summary, the move by Telecom was However, the department will do that out in based on good, sound commercial grounds the bush, not from a centralised position in and for sound commercial purposes. Certainly, Brisbane, as was the case under the previous the Government has facilitated Telecom’s Government. making the move. It will significantly boost our budding information technology industry. It will Telecom lead directly to 150 jobs and, more importantly, it reflects the confidence that Mr BRISKEY: I ask the Minister for Telecom and the business community have in Business, Industry and Regional the Queensland economy. Development: can he outline the practical effects of the proposed move to Queensland by a section of Telecom? Brisbane Airport Ambulance Station Mr ELDER: Telecom will call Queensland Mr BRISKEY: I ask the Minister for Police home—at least its largest business section and Emergency Services: in light of continuing will. Telecom has announced that it will move allegations made in the media by the its Commercial and Consumer Business Opposition, can he clarify the staffing situation Group to Brisbane. Of the four divisions in at the Brisbane Airport Ambulance Station Telecom, that is the largest. More importantly and the ability of the Queensland Ambulance for Queensland, it is the largest purchasing Service to address the needs of the airport? section. The move is a clear reflection of the Mr BRADDY: The media speculation fact that this State has a growing information comes from the honourable member for technology industry that can service Telecom’s Clayfield, who spreads false rumours faster requirements. The move will provide a than people at Ascot buy Range Rovers. The considerable boost to the local IT industry. On ambulance station at Brisbane Airport was that point alone, I am very happy to welcome established primarily to cater for patients Telecom to Queensland. arriving at the airport, the number of whom It is the type of move that the has increased significantly because of the Government has been encouraging. I fully improved service that is offered by the support the Premier and the Treasurer in their Ambulance Service and the Health efforts to have companies locate their head Department in this State. Up to 200 patients a offices in Brisbane and join their field month now come into the Brisbane Airport as operations. That move shows that the hold a result of the increased use of Government that Sydney and Melbourne had on the aircraft for that purpose. That is in addition to business community is weakening. From 14 October 1993 5192 Legislative Assembly the patients who are brought into the airport the cost. For 40 years, the people involved in by normal commercial aircraft. the AFS project have been crossing cattle, The Ambulance Service always knows researching, breeding and checking in order to when Government aircraft or commercial develop the breed. The project has now aircraft will bring in patients. The ambulance reached the stage at which we have decided officers attend at that station and have the that it should be sold to the commercial station equipment ready, if necessary. The industry. That is no different to what occurs in ambulance station was built at the airport the beef industry and many others. We primarily for that purpose. When no planes are develop research and get it to stage at which coming in, officers of that ambulance station it can be commercially viable to those who also go to other emergency cases. As I say, may be interested in it. officers at that ambulance station know when The commercial viability of those who are planes are coming in with patients on board. interested is best determined by the tender The ambulance station has advance system. That is exactly what we have done notification of that and is available for use. with the AFS breed. The tender process is not In addition to that ambulance station, at as yet completed. An evaluation is currently least five ambulance stations are located being undertaken of the tenders that have within a few minutes of the Brisbane Airport, been received to date. The process will take and are available to be called on in the event some considerable time, because of the of an emergency at the Brisbane Airport. complexity of the arrangements. However, ultimately, the whole world will know what we have sold the genetic material for, because Australian Friesian Sahiwal Cattle that is really all that is left. Mr SANTORO: In directing a question to the Minister for Primary Industries, I refer to the AFS dairy breed developed over many Heatley State School Fire years by the DPI artificial breeding centre at Mr DAVIES: I direct a question to the Wacol and now finding favour in at least 30 Minister for Education. He will be aware of two countries, and I ask: what did it cost tragic fires that occurred at the Heatley State Queensland taxpayers and the dairy industry Primary School. The Minister will also be to produce that new tropical dairy breed? aware of my concern in relation to the welfare What price has the Minister set for the sale of the students and the considerable that he is trying to arrange covering all the inconvenience that they are experiencing. I genetic material, livestock and equipment? ask: can the Minister detail the current position How will the Minister ensure a continuing in relation to the restoration of fire damaged benefit to the people of Queensland and our buildings, including details of approvals and dairy industry from this important Queensland when construction might commence? breed if he sells it overseas? Mr COMBEN: I am indeed aware of the Mr CASEY: The development of the tragic fires and the concerns of the member Australian Friesian Sahiwal breed of dairy for Mundingburra in that regard. In August cattle was unique to the Queensland 1993, two fires a fortnight apart damaged two Department of Primary Industries. As a classroom blocks at Heatley State School. department and as a Government, we have to One block had to be demolished; the other is decide whether to open our research to the capable of repair. Teaching resources such as private sector here and overseas. The computers, videos and televisions were also Queensland dairy industry is not using AFS destroyed. Predictably, arson is suspected cattle where the industry is located in the strongly, and the police are investigating. tropics inland from Mackay and from the Atherton Tableland region. Because of the The school had excess stock of facilities climate in those regions, farmers can use the for its current enrolments. The total count of same type of dairy cattle as are used general learning areas following the fire is 28. However, a number of those are presently elsewhere in the dairy industry generally. used for non-classroom purposes. Up to eight Therefore, earlier this year, this Government general learning areas are used for non- took a decision that it was not our classroom purposes. Replacement of the responsibility to make AFS cattle commercially buildings will be in two stages. Stage 1 is the viable. refurbishment and upgrading of the teaching The honourable member’s question block, Block K, which was only partially referred to the cost of developing this breed. I destroyed. The replacement project has been cannot outline the cost. No-one can evaluate approved at a cost of $252,000. Most of the Legislative Assembly 5193 14 October 1993 work will be performed by Q-Build. The work projects completed this year, three were in will commence on 25 October. Support north Queensland. They were the Kidston contracts for the work are currently being gold mine, with an investment of $13.3m; the called. Necessary materials are being ordered. MIM lead/zinc concentrator at Mount Isa; and As I said, on-site work will begin on 25 the Mount Isa copper ore bodies project. We October, to be completed as soon as possible are working on future developments in the and certainly before the beginning of the new Cloncurry, Weipa and Bayfield areas. school year. Importantly, the Major Projects Report, Rectification and reinstatement following which was once used in a chest-thumping fire damage must be assessed on the exercise by the Opposition, is used by this individual circumstances of the affected Government as a working report so that we school. There is no automatic replication of can develop the small manufacturing any facility lost as a result of such an event if industries that link with the major projects. changing needs of the school have resulted in Austbelt Splicing in Mackay is a good example the spaces that were lost not being required of that. The company was the winner of the under current departmental standards. small business award this year. That company Conditional approval has also been given used the report to access new projects and to modify and refurbish Block B to provide markets and to ensure that its mining classroom spaces comparable in standard equipment was known to large companies and amenity with those destroyed in Block G. and future prospects. These actions will result in the school having By having DBIRD offices in those regions access to 24 general learning areas without and having that presence, we are able to help being required to reprogram the uses create value-added opportunities throughout previously being made of excess general the north. The $35m agglomerated stone learning areas. This will be sufficient to meet processing plant at Townsville is a good the projected need for general learning areas example. It was developed through the in 1994. I thank the honourable member for regional economic development program. The his question. I had pleasure in detailing that people involved in that project used that answer. program to determine the project’s viability to access finance. That project is now in the construction phase. The chicken processing DBIRD Regional Offices, North Queensland facility in Mareeba is important for that district. Mr DAVIES: I ask the Minister for It provides the diversity of economy that is Business, Industry and Regional necessary in the region. That facility will Development: can he outline how the employ 50 people directly and 200 provision of regional offices in north downstream. Those are the sorts of projects Queensland has assisted economic growth in with which we are involved. They are helping that region? the economy of north Queensland to grow Mr ELDER: I certainly can, and I thank and diversify. They are also creating jobs in the honourable member for the question. The that region. provision of those offices and the approach that we have taken to the delivery of regional Minister for Primary Industries development ensures that department offices are more in tune with the needs of those in Mr PERRETT: In directing a question to the north Queensland region. Ultimately, the Premier, I remind him of the DPI’s inability being able to respond immediately to to react to the recent anthrax scare in central business needs is important. North Queensland, which is the most recent Queensland is one of Australia’s most export- example of the collapse in the effectiveness of oriented regions. Some 11 per cent of this once-efficient department by virtue of its Australia’s total exports are now exported from current ministerial mismanagement. I remind the area north of Mackay through to the cape. the Premier also of the Auditor-General’s The two main bases of the economy of that derogatory opinion of the state of the DPI region are mineral processing and tourism. accounts under the Minister’s poor However, manufacturing industry is growing stewardship. I ask: on what basis has the particularly quickly in small provincial centres. Premier ignored such findings so far? How In those areas, the provision of regional much longer can he endure the proven gross offices and services is extremely important. incompetence of the Minister for Primary Industries in his Cabinet? Is not the Premier’s The provision of those offices helps to persistence with the Minister for Primary facilitate major projects. Of the seven major 14 October 1993 5194 Legislative Assembly

Industries in that portfolio a continuing insult to Further, just two months into 1993-94, Queensland’s primary industries? the following Acts have already been Mr W. K. GOSS: To the best of my passed— knowledge, Mr Casey is the best Primary Bail Amendment Act; Industries Minister in this State—— Penalties and Sentences Legislation Opposition members interjected. Amendment Act; Mr W. K. GOSS: I will qualify it—since Trustee Companies Amendment Act; 1951. Prior to that, I was not around, so I will Magistrates Court Jurisdiction not comment. Amendment Act; and Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted Jurisdiction of Courts (Cross-vesting) for questions with or without notice has Amendment Act. expired. Justice Budget Increases Before addressing the budget in more APPROPRIATION BILL (No. 2) detail, certain highlights should be drawn to Resumption of Committee the attention of all honourable members. Debate resumed from 13 October (see Legal Aid will receive a massive 37 per cent p. 5156) on Schedule 1— funding increase, taking its State Government grants to almost $10m for 1993-94. This represents a massive increase of $2.691m— Minister for Justice and Attorney-General or 37 per cent—over the preceding financial and Minister for the Arts year. As a result of both a Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba— Minister Commonwealth/State funding arrangement for Justice and Attorney-General and Minister and the extra money provided by for the Arts) (11 a.m.): Before highlighting the Queensland, the Commonwealth also features of this year’s Justice, Attorney- contributed an extra $782,000 of funding for General and Arts budget, it is instructive to the commission. This funding comprises a canvass the major achievements within this base grant of $7.736m, a grant of $0.250m portfolio for the year just concluded. In 1992- towards the funding of community legal 93, the following Acts, each heralding centres and a special one-off grant of $2m to achievements within our legal system, were improve the level of reserves held by the passed— Legal Aid Office. Justice Legislation (Miscellaneous The continuing Public Trustee civil law Provisions) Act; scheme of a $4m revolving fund will also assist the Legal Aid Office to meet its Freedom of Information Act; commitments to the public. The Aboriginal Penalties and Sentences Act; Justice Advisory Committee also benefited Anti-Discrimination Amendment Act; and from the increased budget, and received $354,000 to fund its operations in 1993-94. Supreme Court Legislation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act. In addition, $500,000 has been provided to upgrade the holding cells in courthouses to Many administrative changes have also a standard that will minimise deaths in custody occurred in 1992-93, most notably— and is action taken as a result of the report of access to justice has been further the Commission of Inquiry into Aboriginal increased by the appointments of Deaths in Custody. Upgrades are currently in additional District Court judges in Cairns progress, with some already completed or and Maroochydore, and an additional near completion. All improvements will be Supreme Court judge for Brisbane; completed by January next year. the first Children’s Court judge was The Office of the Director of Prosecutions appointed as President of the Children’s will be almost $1m better off, after a 10.5 per Court and two additional judges of the cent funding increase, taking its total budget Children’s Court commissioned; for 1993-94 to $10,027,000. This means more the new $26m Cairns Court House legal officers and administrative support staff complex was opened; and can be employed. When the Goss Labor Government came to power in 1989, the the Self Enforcing Ticketable Offence prosecution’s office received a paltry $4.6m. Notice Systems—SETONS—began Now, with funding over the $10m mark, the operating. prosecutors can concentrate on what they do Legislative Assembly 5195 14 October 1993 best—prosecuting criminals. An amount of I will now address. With the support of the $200,000 has been provided to ensure that Criminal Justice Commission, the Alternative women and girls who experience violence Dispute Resolution Division of the Department have reasonable and timely access to support of Justice and the Attorney-General and information during their involvement in the conducted a successful pilot project to criminal justice process. mediate disputes between police and citizens. In the Arts area, increased grants and That scheme will now extend to all areas of increased regional funding are two of the the State that are serviced by the Community major areas to benefit from this year’s better Justice Program, including south-east than before Arts budget. The extra $2.5m Queensland, Townsville and Mount Isa. Over takes the Regional Arts Development Fund’s this financial year, alternative dispute capital base to $7.5m. This increase provides resolution will continue developing and an extra $190,000 in interest earnings for extending its important crime reparation 1993-94, taking the total interest to be project, as well as actively marketing its expended to $450,000. These increases give mediation, facilitation, and conflict resolution local communities more than just funding. It training. enables them to decide where the money is Queensland’s new Anti-Discrimination spent so that they can initiate activities Commission has completed a successful first demanded in their local area. This significant year. The legislation is up and running, and injection of funds will enable more the commission has established a high profile communities to receive regional arts for its services, informing people about their development funding, therefore spreading arts rights and obligations. The service has initiatives all over the State. expanded to people in rural areas through the Not only has RADF received a funding opening of offices in Cairns and boost, but the arts grants program is also Rockhampton. Community Justice Program much better off. Almost an extra $1m has offices in Townsville and Mount Isa have also increased funds available for grants to $10.3m become first points of call for the Anti- for 1993-94. Clearly, this means more people Discrimination Commission in those two cities. and organisations will be able to benefit from The second Government-funded Bar arts grants. These significant boosts will settlement week was held in July 1993. It was enable the Government to address more of its a great success, with settlement in just under arts priorities, including touring within 82 per cent of the cases heard. This result Queensland, professional arts development in justifies the $50,000 spent in 1992-93 by this the regions, and also the arts of Aboriginal department as a contribution well worth while. and Torres Strait Islander people. According to the report of the Settlement Libraries, as the most used cultural venue Week Committee, this year’s settlement week in Queensland, will also benefit from increased saved hundreds of thousands of dollars for funding. With 43 per cent of all litigants, as well as a substantial number of Queenslanders subscribing to at least one saved trial days. Programs such as these public library, it is important to fund them emphasise the department’s focus on dispute adequately. The Government has committed prevention, mediation, pretrial conferences an additional $400,000 for public library and other alternative dispute resolution subsidies to improve public library services in methods. Queensland. This increase takes the total to $10.36m. To further improve all The Criminal Justice Commission Queenslanders’ access to libraries, the received a one-off contribution of $200,000 in Government will review this subsidy scheme 1992-93 towards the cost of external inquiries. during this financial year. The goal of the In 1993-94, the Government will provide an review is to ensure a more equitable and amount of $20,651,000 for the operation of effective distribution of funds. the Criminal Justice Commission. As the number of library users is forecast In the financial year just ended, the Law to keep increasing, the Government is taking Reform Commission’s considerations of social steps now to make provisions for the extra justice issues continued. I have tabled final demand for improved bookstock, information reports on intestacy rules, de facto and communication technology, and quality of relationships and the Bail Act. In 1993-94, services for ATSI communities. anticipated Law Reform Commission Those are the major highlights of the publications include Consent by Young budget. However, there are many more People to Medical Treatment and Assisted significant initiatives and improvements, which and Substituted Decisions. 14 October 1993 5196 Legislative Assembly

The public has shown unequivocally, convicted of a heinous crime can be jailed for definitely and decisively that freedom of the term of his or her natural life. information was long overdue. More than Forthcoming reviews and reforms include 6 500 requests have been made for access to the jury system, the coroners system, reform documents in FOI’s first nine months of in the private sector legal services market and operation. By contrast, in the first 12 months a complete rewriting of Queensland’s 100- of FOI in New South Wales, only 2 400 year-old Criminal Code. A practical and applications were received. The past year has efficient system to speed up committal also involved an intensive period of training for hearings of indictable offences is being State and local government agencies. In developed. The Crimes (Confiscation of 1993-94, detailed reports will be assembled Profits) Act will be further strengthened, giving on the first complete year of FOI and judicial the Crown even greater power to restrain and review operations. The second edition of the confiscate ill-gotten gains. A policy is to be FOI policy and procedures manual is also developed on privacy rights, and a Legal being compiled. Education Council is being created. As a Justice of the peace reforms and further measure of creating efficiencies, Crown restructuring will continue in 1993-94. Justice law now has a computerised office of the peace manuals were updated, and management system and is setting clear client regular examinations for JP (Qualified) have service and performance targets. been established. This year, the State Reporting Bureau will In 1993-94, $150,000 has been provided establish a regional reporting centre at Ipswich for case-flow management in superior to meet the recording and/or transcription courts—a measure which will optimise needs of the District and Magistrate Courts. A resources and speed the delivery of justice. remote audio-video system is to be installed at The civil jurisdiction of the Magistrates Court the Banco Court to service the recording and has been increased from $20,000 to $40,000. transcription needs of the Supreme Court and Traditionally, the Magistrates Court offers also the Court of Appeal, as it sometimes sits quicker and cheaper case resolutions. Hence, in that court. this increased jurisdiction will enhance the The two-month pilot of the Legal access to, and delivery of justice. The Retriever—a product of the Queensland Legal Magistrates Court conferences have also Information Retrieval System—will commence proven to be cost effective for the public and this very month. The system will make relieve a degree of stress from the courts. available a large variety of case law material, These conferences have been a stunning as well as Bills, Acts, reprints, annotations and success, with many jurisdictions stating that subordinate legislation. The Legal Retriever only 2 per cent to 3 per cent of matters end in will be marketed to legal practitioners both in trial. the private and public sector. The sum of $1.6m has been set aside for In 1993-94, the Electoral Commission of final payments on the Cairns Court House Queensland will assume responsibility for the complex, which was opened in December conduct of industrial elections and 1992. In addition, the courthouses at amalgamation ballots, following Maryborough and Warwick will be recommendations of both the Cooke inquiry airconditioned at a combined cost of $0.5m, and EARC’s review of the Electoral Act. and an additional courtroom and improved Industrial election costs will be shared facilities are to be provided for the Ipswich between the Electoral Commission and the Court House at a cost of $0.7m. Programs industrial organisations while the costs of totalling $0.3m are to be undertaken to amalgamation ballots will be borne by the provide court access for disabled persons and commission. An amount of $638,000 has to enhance workplace health and safety in been provided in 1993-94 for this initiative. court buildings. The publication of Parliamentary and Moving from refurbishment of courthouse Electoral Fast Facts in association with the environs to those receiving the justice of the Parliamentary Education Office is scheduled in courts—1992-93 saw the proclamation of the November. Another new publication titled Penalties and Sentences Act. This Act collects Countdown will be available from September. into a single Act the various forms of School and institutional visits will be conducted sentences available to courts and thereby to promote electoral awareness in the provides sentence consistency. The Penalties community. In addition, $245,000 has been and Sentences Act also contains the indefinite provided by the Government to develop an sentence order, which means that an offender electronic scanning system for the next State Legislative Assembly 5197 14 October 1993 election. This initiative will enable the house the Public Libraries Division will commission to carry out post-election commence. processing efficiently and cost effectively. Funding to the film industry has been I turn now to the Arts. The Government’s significantly increased to $7.8m. This includes commitment to the preservation of our cultural the second and increased instalment of heritage, supporting a rich diversity of artistic $6.1m for the package of incentives, including performance and improving opportunities for a revolving film fund and payroll tax and crew the development of a vibrant and successful subsidies. Ongoing funding of $440,000 to arts industry in Queensland, is highlighted by the Pacific Film and Television Commission is this year’s budget increase of 14.2 per cent, provided for its continued successful talking the total Arts budget for 1993-94 to promotion of Queensland, its locations, talent $80.153m. and production facilities. Arts Queensland provides financial, As to the Brisbane Biennial—the second marketing, research and advisory assistance Brisbane Biennial, which was an initiative of to individual artists, arts organisations and the the Goss Labor Government in 1991, was an film industry. This assistance increases the acclaimed success, and proved again in 1993 availability, community appreciation and the demand for a high-quality music festival in awareness of, as well as access to, the arts for Brisbane. In 1993-94, funding of $0.8m has all Queenslanders. It also develops and again been allocated to the festival. maintains the State collections of natural As to statutory authorities—the history, science and technology, social history, Queensland Government has provided an visual arts, library and information resources, allocation of $51.3m for the various arts and film and video collections. statutory bodies, an increase of 3.2 per cent. As to the overview—funding totalling These comprise— $10.3m has been allocated for arts Queensland Performing Arts Trust—$5.9m development by arts organisations and individuals—an increase of 8.6 per cent on Queensland Museum—$10.2m 1992-93 expenditure. This will enable the Queensland Art Gallery—$8.2m continued progressive implementation of the State Library of Queensland—$25.4m recommendations contained in Queensland: a State for the Arts, including continuing Royal Queensland Theatre emphasis on developmental assistance for Company—$1.4m individual artists, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Queensland Cultural Centre Islander arts, and regional arts development. Trust—$0.25m In 1993, 168 arts grants worth a total of As to the Queensland Performing Arts $9.2m were awarded. With an almost $1m Trust—many people from regional increase, it is reasonable to anticipate an Queensland avail themselves of the increased number of grants to be awarded. Queensland Performing Arts Trust travel As to capital works—in 1993-94, major packages. In 1992-93, QPAT presented its projects for the arts include the allocation of largest number of performances to date—967 $3.3m to complete the documentation and in its three main auditoria. other preliminary works associated with the As to the Queensland Museum—in 1992- construction of an 850-seat drama theatre as 93, the museum presented five major Stage 5 of the Queensland Cultural Centre, exhibitions, including “Dinosaurs Alive”, which which will cost $45.8m. An amount of $0.76m attracted about 75 000 visitors. In September is allocated in 1993-94 to complete the 1992, the Queensland Museum reopened its refurbishment of sections of the Queensland Sciencentre in the George Street Old Cultural Centre to provide an administrative Government Printery building. Over 77 000 headquarters for the Royal Queensland children visited the Sciencentre in 1992- Theatre Company. The company recently 93—an increase of 39 000 on 1991-92. In moved into its new headquarters. 1993-94, the museum will incorporate a Arts Queensland will continue to provide collection of over 6 000 marine specimens a consultancy service to the Department of donated by the Australian Institute of Marine Housing and Local Government regarding Science. It will also provide an active program building projects submitted under the Major of special exhibitions from local communities, Cultural Complex Capital Subsidy Scheme. national and international sources, including The Public Library Subsidy Scheme is to be “Gargantuans of the Garden”. reviewed, and planning for a new building to As to the Queensland Art Gallery— attendance at the gallery in 1992-93 14 October 1993 5198 Legislative Assembly exceeded 404 000, including more than occasions by people in rural areas and, 110 000 at the major exhibition, “Surrealism: indeed, it was raised in this House in recent Revolution by Night”. days. In a recent court case in the Dalby Time expired. District Court, a man pleaded guilty to the theft of livestock at Taroom—in this case, two cows, Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) a heifer and three horses. No conviction was (11.21 a.m.): The Estimates for the recorded. The man was placed on a good Department of Justice and Attorney-General behaviour bond, without being required to put cover many important areas of Government, up a cash surety. The total cost for the and I hope that the time will permit me to deal offender was an order for restitution of $1,000. with a number of these briefly and the CJC in Penalties for stock stealing certainly need to some detail. be updated and reinforced, as inadequate Firstly, I refer to the court backlog. penalties jeopardise the livelihood of primary Despite raising this issue on a number of producers. That is the important point that we occasions in this place, yet again I note in the have to keep in mind. People who steal stock Toowoomba Chronicle, dated 29 September take away the opportunity for people to gain this year, the headline “Judge highlights large an income. It is more than just stealing their number of pending trials.” The article goes on property; it is stealing their income. I to say— appreciate that the Minister is currently “A District Court judge has reviewing the Criminal Code, but I believe that highlighted the high number of court this matter requires some urgency. The case cases waiting to be finalised and the to which I referred is but one of a series of increasing length of time it takes those cases throughout the State that have come cases to go to trial in Toowoomba. Up to before the courts and about which the 90 cases are listed to go before the community has been very dissatisfied with the Toowoomba District Court, which has had result, and I can well understand it. its sittings extended to eight weeks in an Mr Wells: Can you give me the name of attempt to finalise most of them. Judge the case? Howell also asked the prosecution for their opinions. He is likely to include the Mr BEANLAND: I have already written to comments in a report at the end of the the Attorney-General about this case, and I sittings. The prosecution said 12 to 16 have received no satisfaction from my months was no longer considered an submission to him. There have been a exceptional time for people to face their number of other cases, and I will detail them District Court trial after being arrested. in a submission to him. The time taken for someone to face trial The Attorney-General said in reply to a had increased substantially in the last few member who highlighted one such case to years.” him that the misuse or stealing of animals This is not the first time that I have raised does not really require tightening of the law as this matter, and while we are debating the it appears that both the offences created by Estimates of the Department of Justice and the sections and the punishment provided are Attorney-General, I say that, surely, the more than adequate to deal with the evil of operations of the court to ensure the swifter stock stealing. Clearly, the Attorney-General is resolution of cases and not to have the huge not prepared to deal with the matter, so I will backlogs and current delays is the first area certainly follow it up, as I intended to do so that this Minister ought to be addressing. before he asked me for the name of the case. I believe that it is a serious issue. As I say, I The Minister made reference to additional am talking about people’s livelihood— it is funding for the Director of Prosecutions office more than just a matter of stealing and the Legal Aid Commission. I am pleased property—and some effort needs to be put to hear that, but let me say that we are talking into upgrading penalties for such offences. about the funding crisis that exists within those two areas of his portfolio. The crisis still exists. I want to refer to the Criminal Justice Time after time the Minister has dined out in Commission in some detail. It now falls within relation to the additional funds being allocated the overall jurisdiction of the department of for the Legal Aid Commission. Of course, it Justice and Attorney-General. I think that it is has been brought home to him that he is not fair to say that the Criminal Justice providing the huge sums of money that he Commission was always destined to be would have us believe. controversial. Perhaps it has been more controversial than anyone had imagined or I refer to penalties for stock stealing. This feared. Last week, I said in a media release matter has been raised with me on many Legislative Assembly 5199 14 October 1993 that the performance of the CJC had been complaints relating to local authorities total just uneven and, at times, very disappointing. I 6 per cent. Are we to believe that, after the stand by those comments 100 per cent, and I tens of millions of dollars spent on the am confident that they are shared broadly by Fitzgerald and post-Fitzgerald process, our members who have taken more than a police force is still corrupt, badly managed, passing interest in the operations of the poorly disciplined and not doing its job? I find commission since its inception and more that hard to accept. There has been a general particularly in the last year or so. The CJC is a and obvious improvement in the performance costly activity. Last year, its budget was of the Police Service in its accountability and, $21.4m, and funding is being maintained in most certainly, in its relationship with the the current financial year. It employs 260 staff, community. Those things have happened many of them professional employees, who despite funding restrictions, internal problems are being well paid. I know that 80 of those such as the departure of a Commissioner and staff are policemen. a Deputy Commissioner, and an explosion in In the last year, I have been very critical the level of serious crime in all parts of this of some, perhaps even many, of the CJC’s State. The Police Service still has its problems, activities, and I want to deal with some of my but surely they are not of such magnitude as concerns today. However, before doing so, I to account for almost three-quarters of the want to stress that, on balance, the people of complaints handled by the Criminal Justice Queensland and the Government of Commission. Queensland are better served by the existence of the CJC than they would be it if In my view, there are two reasons why did not exist. It serves as a real deterrent the police allegations figure remains so high in against official corruption. It provides the proportion to the total number of allegations. ordinary citizen with a means of having The first is that, in the wider community, the grievances against the agencies of State and CJC is still seen as a body principally directed local government investigated and redressed at investigating police. The CJC claims in its by an independent authority. It has achieved report that there is a growing knowledge in the some success in dealing with evidence of community that the CJC investigates more corruption carried out on a fairly small scale. than police misconduct. My own dialogue with One must say that it has not uncovered high constituents, and the evidence provided in the level, or even widespread, official corruption— CJC’s own report, do not substantiate those if such corruption does exist. claims. I am sure that other members have found the same position in their electorates. In more recent times, it has embarked The second reason is that the CJC still spends with enthusiasm on investigating and too much time investigating frivolous and apprehending drug dealers, although few of the Mr Bigs have been brought to ground. I minor complaints against police. will say more about the involvement of the Recently, we saw an example of that commission in drug investigations later, but when the CJC conducted a full inquiry into one must question whether the Criminal allegations concerning Constable Paul Hauff, Justice Commission’s resources ought to be a Broncos player who is doing an excellent involved in the drug problems to the extent community relations job at Inala, which is that they are. I am far from satisfied with the widely acknowledged as having particular efforts of the CJC in investigating certain serious juvenile crime problems. That complaints, and the manner in which it has investigation received headline coverage reported on some investigations. The Stephen because it dealt with a prominent footballer. Mack case is just one such case, which I Similar inquiries are taking place right around outlined in detail in this place on 13 July this the State all the time but do not get the same year and in which, I might add, the Attorney- media attention. Whilst the end result totally General’s reply is completely unsatisfactory. I cleared Constable Hauff, as the business will refer to that again shortly if I have the time people and local citizens both expected and available to me. demanded, it tied up police resources One of my greatest concerns is well unnecessarily. That is happening elsewhere confirmed by the “Subjects of Allegations” on a daily basis. It is interfering with the ability graph, which appears on page 23 of the CJC of the police to get on with the major task of annual report tabled in this place last week. fighting crime. I am informed that the number This graph shows that 73 per cent of all of frivolous and get-even complaints being complaints and allegations made to the CJC made against police officers is undermining last year related to the Queensland Police police morale, as well as needlessly tying up Service. Complaints relating to public service resources. The fact that 73 per cent of all departments total 12 per cent, while complaints being handled by the CJC relate to 14 October 1993 5200 Legislative Assembly the Police Service is more of a reflection of the Executive Government. It is the most feared public perception of the CJC itself than it is a and powerful body in the State service. It is reflection of the performance of Queensland feared by Ministers just as much as it is feared police. by officials. I find it unacceptable that a body The word is out among criminal antisocial which is supposed to be free from Executive elements of the community that even a minor Government interference, the CJC, is being complaint to the CJC will divert police from reviewed by the very heart of Executive their inquiries and from the task of clearing up Government itself, the Cabinet Office, and in crime. In a society trying to wrestle with particular Mr Kevin Rudd, the Cabinet Office absolutely appalling levels of violent crime Director-General, former private secretary to such as armed hold-ups, bashings, rape and the Premier and now the Premier’s right-hand murder, the last thing that is needed is a man. Police Service with a low morale and one The Government will claim that an which is devoting scarce resources to interdepartmental committee is putting the answering and defending minor and often proposed changes into legislative reform. vindictive allegations against police officers Anyone who believes that knows nothing carrying out their duties. The task for the CJC, about the way in which the Cabinet Office the Government and the Parliament is to operates. I hoped that we would have seen strike for right balance between the need to the current chairman of the parliamentary deal with police malpractice and the need to committee coming to the defence of the CJC, ensure that the great majority of decent, but once again he has gone to water on this hardworking police officers can get on with the issue. The Attorney-General was much closer great task that they have to perform on behalf to the truth when he revealed in the new of the community. weekly paper, the Brisbane Weekend Times, There can be no doubt that the morale of that the recommendations for change would the police service has suffered, just as there be dealt with in the same way as other can be no doubt that the legitimate fight proposals for legislative reform. In other words, against crime has suffered as well. In the the Criminal Justice Commission and the current circumstances, that is a most parliamentary committee are being treated unsatisfactory situation and one which is just like a Government department, and that is overwhelmingly against the public interests not only contrary to the spirit of the Fitzgerald and the maintenance of law and order in our inquiry reforms, it is contrary to the Criminal community. Justice Act itself. Having made some comments about the When he presented his report, past performance of the CJC, I turn now to the Commissioner Fitzgerald foresaw the inherent future of the commission and its relationship dangers in having the Criminal Justice with this Parliament and the Executive Commission subject to review or control by Government. On page 13 of the commission’s Executive Government. I am sure that he annual report, the chairman, Mr O’Regan, QC, never intended that the review of the Criminal found it necessary to complain about the Justice Commission’s Act would be delay in implementing proposed changes to undertaken by a committee coordinated by the Criminal Justice Act of 1989, the Act which the Cabinet Office—the arm of bureaucracy set up and governs the Criminal Justice closest to the Executive. If there was a need Commission. This delay is inexcusable. The to review the recommendations of the Criminal defence of the delay by the Premier and the Justice Commission and the parliamentary Attorney-General has created more doubt and committee, that task should have been given suspicion than it has put to rest. As it was to lawyers and other qualified persons outside required to do, the parliamentary CJC the bureaucracy. committee has reviewed the workings of the One of the matters on which the Criminal Justice Commission and the Act commission wants action to be taken is the which governs it. That review took place, I definition of “unit of public administration”, understand, during the time of the former something which is fundamental to the scope chairman who has been out of the job now for of the commission’s jurisdiction. That is a more than a year. matter of great interest to the bureaucracy, We now find, 12 months or more down and the Executive, and that is why it is entirely the track, that the review is being reviewed by inappropriate for bureaucrats to be reviewing an interdepartmental committee headed by the Act and the proposed changes. the Cabinet Office. Under this Government, I hope that the Attorney-General will the Cabinet Office is the epicentre of clarify, if not withdraw, his statement that the Legislative Assembly 5201 14 October 1993 proposals are being dealt with in the same have resulted, and the wider problem itself way as other proposals for legislative reform. If needs attention. his statement stands, then one of the Finally, the CJC should abandon its work fundamentals of the whole reform process is in regard to the legalisation of marijuana. The in real jeopardy. There is a need to change Premier, the Attorney-General and, at the the Act. There is a need to change the way weekend, the Health Minister, have all the commission functions, but that process rejected legalisation, as has the Opposition. It needs to be carefully controlled by this is just not a goer as far as this Parliament is Legislature through the Parliamentary concerned, and already too many resources Committee for Criminal Justice, and I hope have been devoted to what is a worthless that the committee will intervene without delay activity. There are more pressing problems for to put the process back on the right track. the CJC to deal with than a subject that is just Before I leave the Criminal Justice not going to get a run as far as we can see Commission issue, I want to make just a few into the future. suggestions for reform which will help enhance If the CJC is to survive, it needs to be far the role of the Criminal Justice Commission more thick skinned and more directed towards and secure its future. The Criminal Justice fighting corruption, ensuring that the rights of Commission must reduce its sensitivity about citizens are able to be protected, and that the leaks and secrecy. The raid on the Courier- growth and the power of the bureaucracy, and Mail earlier this year must never be repeated, all agencies of Government, are checked. It and the CJC should resist the temptation to also needs to be more aware of the real use oppressive powers to plug leaks or have threats to its future. And if it does not realise its sources revealed. that the Cabinet Office is at the very centre of The CJC needs to decide whether its threats to its future power and authority, then commitment to secrecy renders it incapable of it ought to get better-informed sources, and it properly protecting whistleblowers. Given its ought to do so without delay. current attitude to leaks, and the fact that it I was disappointed by the Attorney- has allowed the Treasury to use the Criminal General when he spoke, because he did not Justice Commission to investigate leaks, its give more information on the victims of crime. role in regard to whistleblowers would seem to This is a growing problem in the community. I be incompatible and inconsistent. The hope that in his reply the Attorney-General will Criminal Justice Commission needs to give make some reference to what the less attention to minor police complaint Government is going to do in the forthcoming matters and minor incidents involving the year to better assist victims of crime. There police, such as motor vehicle accidents. The has been a lot of chat and long police ought to have their own means of interdepartmental inquiries. However, as yet, dealing with such complaints and problems. we have seen very little evidence of what the The Criminal Justice Commission and the Government is going to do in this regard. parliamentary committee need to determine In relation to a matter raised this morning urgently just how far the Criminal Justice in question time about external inquiries, Commission should become involved in commissions and the income of solicitors—I operations leading to the arrest of drug and refer to an article that appeared, I think, last other offenders. I know that the Police Service Saturday on the front page of the Courier- is concerned that there is an overlapping of Mail. It highlighted the high cost of external police and Criminal Justice Commission committees and inquiries. The people in personnel, and resources, in actual receipt of those large sums were largely operations. The CJC ought to have sufficient involved in committees and inquiries, apart confidence in the integrity of members of the from one firm of solicitors which is involved in Police Service to allow them to follow up the sale of the Gladstone Power Station. That, intelligence gathered by the Criminal Justice again, involved a lengthy and detailed inquiry Commission and make arrests. If that by the Government about the way in which confidence does not exist, then we ought to the issue should be handled. However, the be told why. figures quoted in the article do not reflect the The CJC should exercise greater care in income of the large number of solicitors and the judgment it makes of people, and puts in barristers throughout the community. Many of writing, using standards of proof not accepted them are very much on the breadline, whether in the courts under our legal system. Of they are in the city, in the suburbs or in course, in this Chamber I have referred to a country regions. number of cases in which grave injustices 14 October 1993 5202 Legislative Assembly

I conclude by making reference to Mr and information seminars, workshops and Mrs Mack. In reply to representations which I involvement in the Cairns tourism strategy, made on the matter, and which I outlined in which focused on cultural tourism, including the Chamber, the Attorney-General suggested Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander tourism that it was a civil issue. It was well known and opportunities and protocols. Queensland is documented that the case was taken before well placed to capitalise on and benefit from the Magistrates Court as a criminal matter and tourism, which demands more than just a prosecuted as a criminal matter. When the holiday in a stunning environment. The trend magistrate suggested that the matter ought to in tourism is now for enriching cultural go to the civil courts, the prosecuting officers experiences. The Queensland Government is said that they would proceed with the matter ensuring that our State will be a primary place before the Magistrates Court in its criminal for cultural tourism destinations. jurisdiction. Other outcomes are cultural development Time expired. initiatives, such as reviews of strategic plans of Mr PYKE (Mount Ommaney) local councils and participation in the SEQ (11.41 a.m.): I rise to highlight a number of 2001 project to ensure that culture and major budgetary initiatives that will further livability were addressed as significant issues develop Queensland’s arts and culture. I in the economic and social planning congratulate the Government not only on frameworks. In terms of resource those Budget initiatives but also on its development—we have coordination of the continued and increased support for the arts development of resources to support the roles and cultural development. Quite clearly, those of various agencies, including local councils, in initiatives have already and will continue to lay the cultural planning and development of their the foundation for Queensland to truly communities and constituents. For example, become a “State for the arts”. In supporting the nationally significant Community Cultural those new initiatives, to which I will return Assessment and Strategic Planning Kit will shortly, I want to advise the Committee of provide a clearly detailed and comprehensive some of the substantial work of the process for making inventories of the cultural Government, the Minister and the Office of resources, needs and opportunities that exist Arts and Cultural Development, commonly in local communities, and strategies have known as Arts Queensland. been developed for formulating local arts and cultural development policies, plans and Following the review by the Arts programs. Committee in 1991, which culminated in the report Queensland: a State for the Arts, Another outcome is the promotion of extraordinary changes have been made in the cultural diversity, in particular the culture of way in which Queensland Government Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, support for the arts and culture has been including the very successful production by the distributed and promoted. The Arts Committee Queensland Theatre Company of One essentially conducted an audit of the status of Woman’s Song, an original play based on the the arts in Queensland. Its review indicated a life of the late Oodgeroo of the Noonuccal number of areas where there was need for tribe, which was performed almost entirely by priority action, including individual artists, Queensland Aboriginal actors, and major professional arts development in regional increases for both contemporary arts practice Queensland and the arts development of and projects, which aim to support the revival, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. maintenance and development of traditional Thankfully, the Goss Labor Government Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture. In recognised those needs and has acted swiftly that context, I note, and I commend the to take Queensland’s arts and cultural Government, that funding for ATSI— development from the dressing room to centre Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander—cultural stage. practice has risen from only $24,000 in 1989 to over $370,000 in 1993—a massive funding This Government has implemented and boost. continues to implement the recommendations of the Arts Committee report. That has In 1991, the Queensland Government resulted in many successful outcomes, of introduced to the grants program the principle which the following are selected highlights. of peer assessment and involvement in the This Government recognises the value and formulation of arts and cultural development worth of cultural tourism. To that end, the policy for Queensland. Peer assessment, as Government is starting to create a niche and a the name indicates, involves arts industry role for Queensland. Initiatives have included people assessing grants applications. As a result, more than 60 artists, related Legislative Assembly 5203 14 October 1993 professionals and community representatives Queensland Government. The children’s book have participated in the assessment process Lucy’s Bay, also short listed, was a publication through membership of the Arts Advisory supported by Arts Queensland. Committee, the artform assessment panels Under the Goss Government, funding for and a number of specific-purpose working writers and writing and publishing projects has parties, such as the Local Government and increased from $100,000 in 1990-91 to Arts Committee and the Multicultural Arts $630,000 in 1993. That new funding, Working Party. The inclusion of Aborigines including for the first time support to individual and Torres Strait Islanders, people of writers, has helped to remove the gag from non-English speaking backgrounds and the mouth of Queensland’s writers after representatives from regional Queensland has decades of cultural oppression. We are all too been a significant feature of that process and familiar with the stories of novelists and poets ensures that the objectives of cultural diversity leaving the State in order to write with balmy and social justice are given consideration by nostalgia about Queensland from a distance. people with appropriate expertise and For the first time, our writers are anxious to experience. stay in Queensland, and we must encourage Grants available to artists have again that. There is a new confidence in the voice of increased this year by almost $1m to $10.3m. Queensland writers and new publishing In 1993, 168 grants were given, valued at opportunities, as State Government support $9.2m. Major reviews of policy for the has helped to kick-start a fledgling publishing Queensland Art Gallery, the Queensland industry. Museum and the State Library of Queensland In July 1992, the second Writers Train, have produced future-oriented programs, funded by Arts Queensland, made the 15-day which will result in remarkable developments journey along the western line from that respond to the changing needs of the Rockhampton to Mount Isa. The train featured Queensland communities in the mid to late 14 well-known writers, including Hugh Lunn, 1990s. Thea Astley and performance poet, The introduction of a completely new Komninos. The train stopped in 24 towns and range of assistance programs in 1991-92—the centres across the central west, where the most extensive of any State Government in writers made visits to schools and held popular Australia—has resulted in major public readings of their works. Support for developments, such as the linking of artists other initiatives has included the Brisbane with industry. Arts Queensland coordinated Biennial International Festival of Music and the visit to Brisbane of Bruce Filley, which the Brisbane International Film Festival. Both provided a catalyst for the development of initiatives have culminated in a notable significant initiatives in that area that support increase in the profile of the arts in artists and enable them to achieve economic Queensland and enhancement of the State’s independence through their work. Another reputation both nationally and internationally. development is opportunities for professional Those events and other festivals, such as development in Australia and overseas, for the Maleny Folk Festival, are also noted for example, the attendance by furniture the considerable contribution that they make designer, Gregory Gilmour, and other to the economy of our State through visitor Queensland designers at the Domus spending on related activities, such as Academy in Milan; the year-long training accommodation, use of services, food and program undertaken by opera singer, Dominic other purchases. Natoli in Italy, resulting in his winning the prestigious Alfredo Kraus International Singing The Goss Government has made major Competition; and, in the 1993 grant round, efforts to support the provision of appropriate Gail Atkins, a young Queenslander, will accommodation and infrastructure to complete her Performing Arts Fellowship companies and organisations that facilitate studying at the Stradivarius Violin-making the production and promotion of the arts in School in Italy. Gail is the only Australian and Queensland. In addition to the funds allocated the only woman ever accepted into that for the development of Stage V of the school. Queensland Cultural Centre, resources have been provided for the Institute of Modern Art Another development is recognition for and a number of smaller and regionally based Queensland writers, such as the Children’s arts and culture groups. Book Council of Australia’s short listing for Children’s Book of the Year of Brisbane writer Arts Queensland staff have made Sue Gough’s first novel, written while she was extensive trips to regional Queensland to a recipient of a 1992 fellowship from the provide information, advice and support to 14 October 1993 5204 Legislative Assembly individuals and organisations in the is not accountable to the Minister but is development of their programs and accountable to the Parliament via an all-party submissions for Government support for parliamentary committee. The member for programs and projects. This has resulted in Indooroopilly should be aware of that fact. Dr significant increases both in the amount of David Watson is the Liberal Party’s money being allocated to regionally based representative on that committee. artists and organisations and in the Mr T. B. Sullivan: Maybe they don’t talk. development of merit in artwork being produced in regional Queensland. Mr PYKE: Maybe they do not do something. Due almost single-handedly to the Goss Government’s support, the film industry in Mrs SHELDON (Caloundra—Leader of Queensland is booming. When we came to the Liberal Party) (11.54 a.m.): There is surely Government in 1989, production in not a more ignorant person in this Chamber Queensland was at a low level—under $20m. than the member for Mount Ommaney. It is This year, it will reach, if not exceed, $100m. incredible that he would mention the word The Government’s initiatives, administered “ignorance” in reference to the member for through Film Queensland, have made this Indooroopilly, who knows his portfolio happen. Direct assistance by way of loans, extremely well. If the member for Mount investment in writers and producers, grants Ommaney had actually read the notes that he and subsidies to encourage innovation and was handed by his Minister, he may well have training and active marketing of Queensland been able to provide a better explanation than film locations and facilities have made their he did. mark. Production in Queensland is now the Mr T. B. Sullivan: Mr Beanland doesn’t nation’s second largest. Two low-budget have a portfolio. feature films made in 1992-93 in Queensland Mrs SHELDON: Mr Beanland is the were selected for Cannes—Broken Highway shadow Attorney-General. I see that the Labor and Bedevil. The television series Paradise Party has let the honourable member for Beach, Time Trax and Ocean Girl were Chermside off the leash again. That was a recently produced in Queensland. The largest very unwise move. production ever in Australia, Penal Colony—a $22m feature film by the producer of Almost a year ago, when I was speaking Terminator and Terminator II—was filmed in the Estimates debate for the Arts principally in far-north Queensland. Department, I made some serious criticisms of the way in which Labor had mismanaged the It is important to note that these arts in its first three years. I pointed out that achievements have been realised in a little the Arts Minister for most of that time, the more than two years and by a departmental Premier, had treated the portfolio with disdain staff of arts and film officers whose numbers and relegated it to the backblocks of his are significantly below those in all other State portfolio responsibilities. This meant that the arts and film bureaucracies. It is to the great arts had suffered for three years under an credit of the intelligent and forward-thinking uncaring Minister. The thousands of policy development process and the Queenslanders who work in the arts and the dedication of the departmental staff that thousands more who enjoy the arts had also Queensland is now regarded as the State in suffered. which the most innovative, exciting and equitable arts and cultural development is Although departmental staff had doubled occurring. These are some of the from 20 to 40 under the Premier, the budget achievements of the Government in for the Arts Department had risen only in line encouraging the development of a diverse, with inflation. This showed a disturbing trend vibrant and viable arts and film industry in that we had seen in so many other Queensland. The new initiatives announced departments under this Government—a by the Minister will ensure that development blown-out bureaucracy providing fewer continues in this, “the State for the arts”. services. I am happy to see that the staff blow-out has stopped this year under the new Before I conclude, I have a comment to Arts Minister, with staff levels remaining at 40. make on the speech just delivered by the However, I find it interesting that the salary member for Indooroopilly, who has either and wages bill for the department has jumped misled the Committee today or has displayed an incredible 23.3 per cent over the last year. his great ignorance of the CJC. For the That is right: the wages bill for the Arts information of the honourable member for Department has grown from $1.85m in 1992- Indooroopilly, his constituents and other 93 to $2.29m in 1993-94. Does this mean that honourable members, I point out that the CJC Legislative Assembly 5205 14 October 1993 those staff working in the Arts Department are silence becomes apparent after a glance at now earning much more than they were a the Budget papers. year ago, or could it be something else? Despite a 13 per cent increase in funding Perhaps the Minister can explain that matter from the actual expenditure last financial year, in his reply. the major groups do not seem to have Perhaps it is the Government’s benefited much. For example, funding for the administering of the peer assessment Queensland Performing Arts Trust has process. This is the process whereby people remained virtually static. Funding for the Art sit on an advisory committee and assessment Gallery Foundation has not risen one cent. panel which allocates funding and receive a Funding for the Queensland Art Gallery has minimum of $170 a day for the privilege. actually dropped, while funding for the Although it is obviously an important position, Queensland Museum has also remained it must be remembered that board members virtually static. That must be particularly galling for most arts organisations give their time to the museum, considering that in the without payment. Surely, those on the Budget it is claimed that there would be— assessment panel do not need to be paid “Development of policies on support directors’ fees for a job which is in fact a for museums.” privilege to perform. Whatever the real reasons for the blow-out in salary costs, the Those policies are obviously needed. I ask the fact remains that more money is being sucked Minister to explain in his reply exactly what the into the non-productive areas instead of being “development of policies on support for used to further the arts in this State. museums” means. Grants to the library of Queensland have risen only slightly, by almost I reiterate some of the concerns that I 5 per cent. All of those groups and expressed last year about the direction of the associations have little to laugh about, except Arts Department under this Government. to feel thankful that at least this year their Unfortunately, they still stand. Although funding has not been cut. funding for the department has increased—and that is good news—the These institutions of the Queensland arts direction of that funding must be questioned. have, in many cases, not even had funding The Minister has adopted the attitude that increases large enough to counter inflation. funding should be directed towards individuals Some sections of the arts have received rather than organisations. I am not saying that worthwhile funding increases, and on that I many Queensland individuals are not worthy congratulate the Minister. The Royal of grants for the advancement of the arts. Queensland Theatre Company is one of those Unfortunately, the either/or situation causes beneficiaries. I was a very strong critic of the concern among the arts community. Last State Government last year over its treatment year, we saw a cultural tragedy when the of the RQTC, along with its treatment of Twelfth Night Theatre Company closed down Twelfth Night and the Lyric Opera at that time. after 60 years because of funding cuts by this I pointed out that those performing arts State Government. TN had been an institution companies were some of the most visible in the performing arts in this State and exponents of the arts in Queensland and the provided enjoyment for tens of thousands—if equal of similar organisations across the not hundreds of thousands—of Queensland country. Yet this Government had continually theatre lovers. reduced funding to them while propping up pet projects. Fortunately, we see in this year’s Budget an increase in funding for the Arts It seems that the expression of my Department. That is obviously good news, and concerns and the strong outcry from the I congratulate Mr Wells on obtaining that extra performing arts groups themselves has at funding from an obviously anti-arts Premier least paid dividends for the RQTC, which has Goss. But—and, unfortunately, there is a received an increase in funding from $1.145m “but”—where is the funding going? With more to $1.386m. Again, I congratulate the Minister than $9m in extra funding for the Arts on recognising this need. I hope that he Department, it would be fair to expect the recognises similar needs in other performing State’s major art groups to be jumping with arts groups in Queensland. It must be joy. In fact, we should be seeing the major art remembered that this Labor Government has groups of Queensland crowing about the been entrusted with the support and carve-up of that extra $9m among them for continued development of Queensland’s arts the provision of bigger and better arts shows institutions. and facilities for the people of Queensland. Coalition Governments in Queensland But they have been silent. The reason for their have a long and very proud history of 14 October 1993 5206 Legislative Assembly providing for the arts. The Royal Queensland the institutions like the museum and the art Theatre Company, the Queensland Ballet gallery, provide daily exposure to the arts for Company, the Queensland Philharmonic the average Queenslander at a price and at a Orchestra, the Performing Arts Complex—the place which can be afforded. That is where Lyric Theatre, the Concert Hall and the the majority of Government resources should Cremorne Theatre—the Queensland Museum be directed now and in the future. The arts building, the Art Gallery and the State Library should be for all, not just the elite, and it is were all created and all prospered under important that the State maintain its role in conservative Governments. Unfortunately, in providing funding which benefits all the last four years, Labor’s record has not Queenslanders. been nearly as good. Now I come to the Minister and his role in Looking once again towards the Budget this process. Mr Wells has at least, unlike the papers, we come to the current grants and Premier, some understanding and subsidies section. In this section, funding has appreciation for the arts. Unfortunately increased from $12.152m to $13.651m. Once though, the Minister, like so many of his again it is good to see an increase in funding, ministerial colleagues, has lost the plot when it but here Labor’s arts policy takes a disturbing comes to providing the best arts funding for turn. Queensland. As I pointed out last year, this I turn now to the Arts Advisory Committee Government has taken funding away from the which was set up to advise the Government of established arts groups and siphoned them its opinion on what are appropriate funding off to individuals. I know that grants are levels for different arts organisations. This needed for Queensland individuals who are committee is an interesting creation because, making a mark in the arts, but that funding like Keith Hamburger in Corrective Services, it must be in proportion to the greater good of operates as a buffer between the people of providing jobs in the major performing arts Queensland and the Minister. Similarly, groups and arts institutions, which also provide whenever anyone wants to find out just why a entertainment for the majority of arts lovers. It decision is made, the arts Minister can duck also provides education appreciation in the his responsibility behind this Arts Advisory young people of Queensland for the arts. Committee. That is what the Arts Advisory The fact is that more and more funding is Committee does for the Minister. It prevents being directed to individuals or small, narrow the Minister from being held fully accountable groups which do not necessarily have wide for the decisions of his department. That is appeal. Government contributions to most wrong, and is a malaise which has spread organisations have been decreasing in real right throughout this Government. terms over the last four years, while funding to The Minister is the one who gets the big individuals has increased. But who are the real bucks for his position of privilege and beneficiaries of these taxpayer-funded grants responsibility. When I say “responsibility”, I to selected individuals? Certainly, in most mean that the buck stops with the Minister, cases, not the general taxpaying public. Most not with one of his committees and not with of those individuals, if they are to reach the his equivalent of Mr Milliner’s Keith top of their respective areas of artistic Hamburger. Yet I know that many in the arts expertise, have to travel interstate or community of Queensland who have wanted overseas, if for nothing more than experience. to question the funding directions of this The fact is that, unfortunately, many never Government when it came to arts, and in come back. They stay overseas or interstate particular the direction of the Arts Minister, performing or producing their art where the have come up against the wall of that most money and exposure can be found. committee. The excuse is the same: “Don’t So, although they may bring some warm ask me; I’m just the Minister. Ask the inner glow to those in the Arts Division and on committee. It makes the decisions.” What a the Arts Advisory Committee and those in the joke! If all his decisions are made by someone peer assessment process, those individuals else, the people of Queensland have the right are not providing any real benefit in the arts to to know just what the Arts Minister does with Queenslanders, those who, under this his time and the taxpayers’ money. Turning up Government, have funded their development for photo opportunities at the orchestra or in the first place. opera is not all the job entails. That is in contrast to the groups and And what of that committee—that all- institutions based in Queensland. Those seeing, all-powerful and apparently totally groups, like those in the performing arts, and unaccountable committee? Surely it must be Legislative Assembly 5207 14 October 1993 stacked with individuals who have an all- Government grant of $10,000 in taxpayer encompassing knowledge of music and the funds handed out last month for the unions to performing arts. Unfortunately, that is not the run an arts program. How ridiculous! How case. I have it on good authority that there is fraudulent! This is what the legitimate arts a definite need for a more conscientious and community is up against in its constant businesslike approach from that committee. struggle for funding in Queensland under The fact is that there is a definite need for this Labor. committee to include more individuals with The annual report for the Arts Division, knowledge of the business of the performing like the Attorney-General’s Department, has arts and more knowledge of the business of still to be tabled. Once again the Government music. is starving the coalition and the people of After all, since the Minister has abrogated Queensland of any of the detailed facts of the his responsibility, it is only fair that the department’s 1992-93 financial year. We are committee at least have an intimate forced to debate the Estimates for the Arts knowledge of the groups and organisations Division without any of the detailed knowledge which are seeking funding from the State provided by the department’s annual report, Government. I think it is disgraceful that the and the Minister must be condemned for his Minister could preside over a situation in which obvious lack of organisational ability in not an unrepresentative committee which is having that report ready and tabled today. unaccountable and working for a Minister who Consequently, I have a series of ducks responsibility can make uninformed questions I wish the Minister to answer during decisions on the funding needs for the this debate. It is most important that he do performing arts and music in Queensland. that. He has an obligation to do so. None of I am not knocking the individuals on that the information that I require in order to inform committee—far from it. The Minister is the arts community and the people of responsible for ensuring that the committee is Queensland is detailed in the budget made up of members who have a full and program. These questions are: why has the intimate knowledge of the areas of the arts wages and salaries component of the budget over which they are presiding. I am knocking risen so markedly when the number of staff the Minister, who has failed in his duty to the has not increased? What are the details of performing arts and the music scene in those increases and where are they going? Queensland by failing to be properly How much funding is spent on the members accountable for his department’s actions. of the peer assessment committee, and who Morale in the arts community is low, and is on the committee? Given that the Minister it is no wonder. The arts community in states in the Budget papers that particular Queensland no longer knows where it is going support will be given to the museum, would he on a year-to-year basis, and that is the entire detail what extra support he has given, where fault of this State Government and this the funds are allocated for that extra support Minister. There should be funding on at least and how it will be used through the State? a triennial basis so that forward planning can What provision has been given for the funding be carried out properly. I know that many arts of arts programs for ethnic communities? They groups have asked for that, but the short- are not mentioned. If there is funding sighted Minister has knocked it back. allocated for ethnic communities, what groups and how much to each? The time has come for things to change. I use, as an example of arts funding under I note that the word “Royal” has been Labor, the way it can be perverted and the removed from the name of the Royal Australia Council grants list this year. On that Queensland Theatre Company. list is found an item which amazed even me Mr Wells: No, it hasn’t. about the depths to which Labor will go to Mrs SHELDON: Yes, it has. Is that part of prop up its mates with taxpayer funds, even in the Government’s republican push? What is the arts. Listed there was a program titled the real program behind it? I also ask that the “Music, youth arts.” This is really worth listening individuals and groups which have received to. The purpose of that program was listed as grants through his department be listed, along “Future release, art and working life youth with their areas of expertise. Could he explain music project”. The funding for this program how they have contributed to their area of was $10,000 from the Performing Arts Board, expertise and how much funding each has and the recipient of that money was none received? other than the ACTU. That is right, the Queensland branch of the ACTU. This was a With the decrease in funding for the performing arts, there also has been a 14 October 1993 5208 Legislative Assembly decrease in funding for choreography and people not politically correct, they are not backstage work in general. Obviously, the going to get funding. Minister needs to detail what provision he is Mr Bredhauer: The tea and cucumber making for the training of the next generation sandwiches set. in these specialised back-up arts that provide such a service to our actors and musicians Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Yes, the tea and performing in Queensland. What is the cucumber sandwiches set. There should be breakdown in funding for the performing arts for all the people of this State. The groups such as the Lyric Theatre, the Opposition’s view is that, as long as one lives Queensland Ballet and the Queensland in Brisbane, one can have arts. But if one Philharmonic Orchestra? does not live in Brisbane or the south-east corner—from where the Liberal Party gets its The reason why I have to ask these miserable portion of members—one will not questions is that we do not have the annual get any money from the Arts portfolio. report. I am delighted to take this opportunity to Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) (12.09 commend the Government for its level of p.m.): I like many things about this job, but commitment to developing and enhancing one opportunity I like most is to follow the arts in rural and regional areas. That has been member for Caloundra in a debate on the one of the hallmarks of this Government, not arts. She displays with every word she utters just during this Minister’s handling of the Arts her total lack of understanding and her total portfolio—and I noted that Mrs Sheldon was ignorance in this area. For example, I was reasonably kind in her remarks about this flabbergasted half way through her speech to Minister—but also when the Premier was the hear her say that arts is for all and not just for relevant Minister. The Premier is a man for the elite. The first half of her speech argued whom Mrs Sheldon shows no respect. She that arts should be for the elite. In her speech, ought to be condemned for that. she criticised the Government for “siphoning off grants to individuals” instead of giving them This Government has actively pursued to the major organisations. She wants to see and implemented policies that will turn around this State’s arts money given to the the cultural desert and wasteland that was the established Brisbane-based arts organisations arts in regional Queensland under successive and not given to the people of Queensland, Liberal and National Party Governments. who deserve to have some activity in arts. Mrs Regional arts and cultural development are a Sheldon would have us give money to arts priority of this Government. With a bureaucracies, yet she criticised the size of the considerable area and decentralised State bureaucracy. She would have us give population in this State, that is as it should be. money to private bureaucracies. Mrs Sheldon We require unique solutions to unique needs. has an extremely narrow view of the arts. But I We are continually demonstrating our should not be surprised by that, and neither commitment to regional cultural development. should members of this Committee, because One of the major commitments is the Mrs Sheldon’s view on everything is always Regional Arts Development Fund, which is a narrow. key strategy and initiative for actively supporting cultural initiatives in regional Let me talk about Mrs Sheldon’s criticism communities. In just three years of operation, of funding to the ACTU. She said that the the fund has set new standards for ACTU should not get any money because it is cooperation between communities, local a crony of the Government. I admit that she governments and State Governments in their did not use those words, but that was the support for local cultural development. It has inference. Mrs Sheldon had nothing to say also been a benchmark for these kinds of about what that money was to be used for. activities in other States. The ACTU is undertaking a worthwhile program known as Arts for Youth. Nobody We established a $5m investment fund else is doing that. The Royal Queensland that distributed its interest earnings. As I said, Theatre Company is not doing it; the museum it is also a partnership deal between State and is not doing it; and the Art Gallery is not doing local governments. To access RADF funds, a it. The Arts for Youth program deserves local council appoints a community committee funding. If the ACTU is the only organisation that assesses applications from local areas. that will do that, it deserves to be funded. The committee then advises the local Members have had an insight into the sort of authority of the worthy recipients of funds. It is Government that would be run by members unique in Australia but, as I said, is being on that side of the Chamber. In their view, if considered for possible implementation by other States. Legislative Assembly 5209 14 October 1993

Since we introduced the RADF, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander participation has grown from 19 to 102 local Corporation staged an art exhibition. So well authorities in less than three years. That received was that exhibition that, at the demonstrates clearly the effectiveness of the appointed opening time, the organisers were program in the delivery of arts and culture to thoroughly embarrassed that they were still the bush—the people whom Opposition trying to set out enough seats for the people members tell us continually that they who had turned up to support that event. The represent. I notice that the member for Caboolture Camera Club has also received Mundingburra is bursting to say something. some support from RADF funding for its Mr Davies: The Regional Arts activities in compiling a historical record of the Development Fund provided funding for the shire. Townsville Arts Expo, which was on last What we did not hear about from weekend. the Deputy Leader of the Coalition was what Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Exactly. I am not these things have meant to her electorate. I sure whether the Townsville Arts Expo is one understand that RADF funds in Caloundra of the examples that I had chosen to have supported a writing workshop, the highlight, but I am very pleased that the Caloundra Chorale and Theatre Company, honourable member has been able to do so. Caloundra stitchers, Caloundra quilters, In fact, to date, RADF funding has supported Caloundra potters and the Caloundra Art and 1 060 regional, remote and rural activities. Craft Festival. I am sure that they are all very Over $1m has been disbursed for regional arts pleased to have their names and the good initiatives. Considering its joint nature, another work that they do for the people of Caloundra $700,000 has been distributed. Using industry mentioned in Parliament. They will all be very multipliers, RADF has generated cultural disappointed that the member for Caloundra activity with an estimated economic impact of did not do that. $5.7m in regional communities. That is not to Community activities of that kind are be sneezed at. encouraging. The decline in interest rates has It is important to understand what the meant a reduction in the funds that are RADF actually does. The budget side of it is available. In order to overcome that, the instructive. It is illustrative to see how the fund Minister has decided to raise the investment really works with some of the regional capital—if one likes—by another $5m in two initiatives. My colleague Mr Davies has just equal jumps. This year, $2.5m has been indicated one in Townsville. The Blackall Shire added to the original $5m. So there is now a Council has received funding for two fund of $7.5m. Another $2.5m will be added community arts consultants to develop an next year. This is in line with the artistic component for the aquatic centre recommendations made in the 1991 report redevelopment. The Redcliffe City Council titled Queensland: A State for the Arts, which staged Community Celebration ’92, featuring was mentioned by my colleague the member the commissioning and production of Smiley for Mount Ommaney. the musical. The Mackay City Council The Government’s decision to exclude supported Suzanne Holmann to work with the councils with populations greater than community and council staff in a community 200 000 was made as a response to environment art and design project. Several representations made by rural, regional and central-western Queensland councils were remote councils and artists, all of whom able to support the employment of a regional expressed some concern that a large urban- coordinator for the Art West organisation. based council such as the Brisbane City In my own electorate, RADF funding has Council was participating in a program that enabled the staging of a variety of arts and was initially designed to assist isolated cultural events, including support for a wide communities. This refinement of the working range of workshops conducted by the Bribie guidelines reflects the ability of councils with Island Community Arts Society. Two weeks significant income levels through large rate ago, the unveiling of an Aboriginal talking bases to contribute towards their own cultural monument took place at that arts centre. I development initiatives. was very pleased that RADF funding The increased fund allocation will see supported the performance at that function of almost $450,000 of State money being spent the Wakka Wakka dance troupe. on regional arts development in 1993-94. I During Easter this year—in fact, on Good believe that every member of this Committee Friday, because that was the only time that should be pleased about that. This should they could hire a suitable hall—the Dalaipi generate approximately $480,000 worth of 14 October 1993 5210 Legislative Assembly contributions from local government—again to come a long way since the days when Joh, the benefit of the communities in which it ably assisted by Victoria Brazil, kicked 4ZZZ off operates. Based on previous experience, we the St Lucia campus. I point out that the believe that this will mean about $2.5m in rationale in assisting the radio station in this generated economic activity in those way is the proliferation of contemporary music communities. That record of support will performers in Brisbane. The Government continue under this Government. No program believed that the best way it could assist those offered by the previous State Government performers was to provide them with an outlet generated this level of financial commitment for their creativity. That outlet has been to regional arts development. If the words of provided regularly by 4ZZZ, which also the Deputy Leader of the Coalition are to be organises many of the festivals and events at believed, no program of a future coalition which these performers play. Government will do that, either. Mr Wells: Why don’t you tell the That is not the only mechanism whereby Committee that you actually played music on cultural activities in regional communities have Triple Z as well. benefited from State Government support. Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: They found that There has been wide-ranging consultation with some of my taste in music was well worth significant regional involvement in program being broadcast. It is important that members and policy development. I am told that in realise that the contemporary music industry in operating its peer advisory process on policy Australia is an industry that has a value of and program decisions, Arts Queensland goes $1.6 billion. It is wonderful that this State is to great lengths to secure regional going to support this form of music. However, representation on all advisory committees, that $1.6 billion industry is centred mostly in panels and working parties. For example, the Sydney and Melbourne. Perhaps a little more Queensland Art Gallery has on its board a can be done to bring more of that market to representative from Townsville and Cairns. this State, both the south-east corner and The Queensland Performing Arts Trust has a regional Queensland. It has great export member from Mackay, and the State Library potential, and I believe that the Whitsunday Board has a member from Townsville. In total, region could support recording studios that 17 members of the Arts Advisory Committee would be as popular with international artists and Art Form Assessment Panels are from as are the recording studios in the Caribbean. regional Queensland. Queensland could certainly provide those Organisations funded through the Arts artists with a more secure location. Grants Program are strongly encouraged to Time expired. address the needs of regional communities where relevant. Arts Queensland also Mr SLACK (Burnett) (12.24 p.m.): It is emphasises significantly regional initiatives with pleasure that I join this debate on the through the Arts Grants Program. In the 1992- Estimates of the Attorney-General’s 93 financial year, arts grants exceeding $3m, Department. In doing so, I support the or 32 per cent of the total grants program, comments made by the Opposition were given to clients delivering arts programs spokesperson for that department, the Leader to regional Queensland, including $963,000 in of the Liberal Party, the member for funding directly to recipients based outside the Caloundra. Before I comment on a couple south-east corner. I say again that people who of issues about which I wish to speak, I refer live outside the south-east corner are entitled to the comment that was made by the to support to enable them to participate in the member for Mount Ommaney in respect of arts and cultural programs of the Government. the Opposition spokesperson’s credentials to speak about the CJC. The member for Mount I pause to mention my involvement in an Ommaney took the liberty of questioning the arts grant within the south-east corner. I had contribution by the shadow Attorney-General great pleasure in representing the Minister at in respect of the CJC, which I find rather the presentation of a cheque for $73,300 to intriguing. I would have expected that, as radio station 4ZZZ. As people may have seen shadow Attorney-General, the member would in the newspaper, that station is in the process have had every right to make the contribution of purchasing its own premises in the Valley, that he did on behalf of his party. I found it and the State Government has assisted it in very surprising to hear the member for Mount doing that. It is a cooperative arrangement Ommaney refer to the fact that the PCJC is a with Youth Culture. In line with the report parliamentary committee and not a committee Queensland: A State for the Arts, which states of the Attorney-General. I certainly agree that that contemporary music ought to be given it is a parliamentary committee, but I found it support, this cooperative arrangement has Legislative Assembly 5211 14 October 1993 surprising that the member made those to be free from Executive Government is comments, having regard to the fact that an being interfered with. The CJC is being interdepartmental review is currently being reviewed by the very heart of Executive undertaken into the CJC by the Office of the Government itself—the Cabinet Office. If the Cabinet—no doubt under the control of one member for Mundingburra, as the Chairman Kevin Rudd, who is all-powerful behind the of the CJC, has a contribution to make, I scenes in the Office of the Cabinet. would expect him to make it. Mr Davies interjected. Mr Davies: Take an interjection. Mr SLACK: I take the interjection from Mr SLACK: The subject is closed. The the member for Mundingburra. His electorate member has ample opportunity to make a is so little known. It is interesting to note that contribution. I have 11 minutes left in which to the member’s name does not appear on the speak, and he has 15 minutes in which to speakers’ list. The debate relates to the CJC , make a contribution. but I do not find the name of the I will now refer to some of the other Parliamentary Chairman of the CJC on the matters that were raised by the Opposition speakers’ list. spokesperson. One of those matters related Mr Davies: The CJC is not responsible to to cattle stealing. I heartily endorse his the Attorney-General, nor is the parliamentary comment that there is a need for a complete committee, so it would be quite inappropriate review of the penalties for that crime. I am for me to speak in the debate. glad that the Attorney-General is nodding in Mr SLACK: It is hardly inappropriate, response, because the whole matter has when a review of the CJC is being undertaken reached a ridiculous stage. The maximum by a committee in which the Attorney- penalty for cattle stealing is $25,000. I will not General’s Department has an interest. It is say that the crime is treated as a joke, but it is hardly inappropriate when the Attorney- not treated nearly as seriously as it should be. General makes comments in the press about Certainly, in the old days, there was a certain the CJC, and the Premier makes amount of, shall I say, larrikinism attributed to comments—— cattle stealing. The crime may not have been considered to be such a serious offence as it Mr Davies: It is a parliamentary is now. However, the amount of money that is committee. involved in such crimes was not as high then Mr SLACK: I know that it is a as it is now. Certainly, times have changed. parliamentary committee. I am glad that the Cattle stealing is a very serious offence and, chairman knows that, too. But the fact as the Attorney-General would appreciate, it is remains that it is questionable whether the very difficult to prove and very difficult to member is doing his job when—— police. For those reasons, if for no other Mr Davies: The fact remains that you reason, the penalties need to be reviewed. don’t know what you’re talking about. Mr Wells: Have you a particular case in Mr SLACK: I take it that the member is mind? going to rush and put his name on the Mr Nunn: Name one. speakers’ list? Several vital points have been Mr SLACK: There are several cases that made in this debate by the shadow Attorney- come to mind. The member for Hervey Bay General, and those points involve the CJC. I should let me explain and not interject, would have thought that, as Parliamentary because I know my subject and he knows Chairman of the CJC, rather than interject, the nothing about it, except that some time ago member for Mundingburra would be quite he was a stock and station agent. Is the happy to make a contribution in this debate. I honourable member seriously saying there am also very surprised because the member does not need to be a review of this situation? for Caboolture said that the member for The maximum fine is $25,000. A trailer load of Mundingburra was bursting to say something. bullocks on the current market is worth Mr Davies: An interjection. approximately $20,000. That is just one trailer Mr SLACK: The member can explain load. It does not take a bright mathematician, that. He has every opportunity to do so. I must and even the member for Hervey Bay might admit to the member for Mundingburra that I be able to work this one out, to calculate that have absolute confidence in the comments of if one takes several trailer loads—which has the shadow Attorney-General, and I shared happened and is still happening—it mounts his sentiments when he said that he found it up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. That unacceptable that a body which is supposed can ruin some landowners. It is a threat to 14 October 1993 5212 Legislative Assembly their property, their future wellbeing and or whether they strayed into another person’s viability. paddock. The penalties listed in the Code are I must mention the contribution of the nowhere near adequate. They are not a great people in the Bundaberg area. I see that the deterrent to those people who engage in member for Bundaberg is in the Chamber. In cattle stealing as a business. Those offenders this case, I am not taking issue with him or can take a trailer load of cattle from central with the Government. Relative to offences of Queensland and be over the border in 10 child molestation and the light penalties which hours. It then becomes very difficult to trace have been highlighted in the newspapers— those cattle. and I have clippings here—I was very pleased Mr Wells: There are terms of to note that the Attorney-General respected imprisonment laid down. the protestations of the people in the Bundaberg area. From that area alone, Mr SLACK: I understand that. petitions in relation to child molestation Mr Wells: If in a particular case you feel containing some 15 000 signatures were that there has been a great degree of received. There were approximately 70 000 leniency, tell me about it. petitions taken up throughout the State. I Mr SLACK: The United Graziers acknowledge that the Attorney-General Association and the Cattlemen’s Union have challenged some of the sentences that were made representations to the Attorney-General highlighted. Those cases were reviewed and, over a period. as a result, stiffer penalties were imposed. I hope we will see stiffer penalties for all people Mr Nunn: On which case? who commit offences of child molestation. Mr SLACK: It has happened over a I turn to another issue about which there period, particularly in relation to the fact that are major problems in the Bundaberg area these cases are very difficult to prove. Once and within the area that I represent, that is, those cases are proved then there should be general juvenile delinquency and the apparent a very severe penalty. inability to control the numbers of break and Mr Wells: And it is hard to get juries to enter offences. I note that there has been a convict. quite significant increase in September in the Mr SLACK: I am not disagreeing with number of break and enter offences in the what the Attorney-General is saying, I am Bundaberg area. Recently, in relation to this merely raising these points. issue, I had a call from Mr James, the owner of Muscular Arm, a shop in Bundaberg, which Mr Wells: I take on board what you are was recently broken and entered. The saying. There was a recent case where the offender, who was over 17 years of age, was person was given a very lenient sentence by given a one-year good behaviour bond and virtue of the fact that there was a psychiatrist’s sentenced to 80 days’ community service. report. I think that that is the case that you Obviously, Mr James feels that that penalty is and other honourable members have been no deterrent. He is very concerned about the referring to. amount of breaking and entering going on in Mr SLACK: I have limited time. Could the Bundaberg. There were 25 per cent more Attorney-General answer my questions in cases for September this year than there were relation to this matter? To give honourable in September last year. Mr James feels that members an example of how difficult it is to the deterrent factor is insufficient, and this investigate and prove these cases. For the concerns him greatly. He told me that interest of the Committee, I will share this story juveniles under 17 seem to be getting a slap that is on the lighter side. Several years ago, a on the wrist and told not to do it again. He policeman apprehended a truck that carried feels that the police are doing their job in what he suspected to be stolen stock. He was catching the offenders, but that the penalty alone. What could he do in that situation? He system is not working. Mr James had valuable was miles out in the bush. He did not think in property stolen, yet that was the penalty given the longer term. He took the keys of the truck to the offender. and returned to his centre to seek assistance. There is a groundswell of support within In the meantime, of course, the truck driver the electorate for those sorts of comments. I opened the back door of the truck and the have had people come into my office and say cattle jumped out. These are the sorts of that the police appear to be doing their job but problems with which the police have to deal. It the offenders are not receiving adequate is very difficult to prove that cattle were stolen sentences from the court system. This is particularly relevant to the punishment of Legislative Assembly 5213 14 October 1993 juvenile offenders. Although there are many Legal Aid Commission and associated bodies people out there who may be deserving of delivering legal aid services is guaranteed. lenient sentences, there is no doubt that The Legal Aid Commission’s mission is many of the people causing property damage “to enhance access to justice in Queensland”. and wreaking havoc within the city will not be The Government’s role in stabilising the deterred unless adequate sentences are funding available to the commission and the handed down by the magistrates. introduction of innovative approaches to It is the victims of crime who need to be service bring the commission closer to considered, rather than the courts considering realising its mission. Some of those innovative the circumstances under which the offender approaches that I have mentioned, I will operated. There is a climate of increasing discuss in more detail in a moment. The Legal crime that is associated with a disregard for Aid Commission is not the only provider of other people’s personal property. There is no legal services on behalf of the Government to doubt that people feel that there is a need for the community, particularly those who are harsher penalties to deal with law breakers. least able to gain access to their own private The police feel that their efforts in relation to legal services. Community legal centres juveniles involved in crime are being wasted. provide an important added range of legal They feel that even if they apprehend services to the community. For the first time juveniles, no punishment will be meted out. since their inception, community legal centres We are arriving at the situation where people have been provided by this Government with are not reporting crime committed by juveniles guaranteed funding. The 1990-91 annual because they feel that no action is being report of the commission stated— taken and that magistrates are reluctant to “A significant milestone was reached act. this year when, for the first time, the State Mr Beattie: What do you base that on? Government provided funds for Mr SLACK: I base that on the comments community legal centres.” of people who come into my office and on the That was in 1990-91. Now the community increasing crime figures. It is a general legal centres receive a guaranteed $250,000 concern. I am sure that the member for each financial year from consolidated Bundaberg has had similar concerns revenue. As with the Legal Aid Commission, expressed to him. We need harsher penalties that helps to stabilise the funding of and more police. I know that the fact that we community legal centres so that they can need more police on the beat is not a matter concentrate on delivering services. for the Attorney-General. However, police I congratulate the Attorney on his need to be visible. We also need to have continuing efforts in raising moneys for the greater cooperation between the courts and commission. On 16 July this year, the Attorney the police. and the Federal Minister for Justice Time expired. announced an extra $2m in top-up funding for Mr WELFORD (Everton) (12.39 p.m.): It is the Legal Aid Commission in Queensland. Out my pleasure to speak in support of the of that joint funding arrangement, the Estimates of the Department of Justice and Commonwealth provided $782,000, with the Attorney-General and Minister for the Arts, State Government contributing the balance of particularly as I will address the Parliament on just over $1.2m. That extra funding highlights the aspect of legal aid within the Attorney- yet another example of this Government’s General’s Department. I am very pleased to continuing commitment to legal aid. It also be able to say what a spectacular funding addressed the commission’s anticipated increase has been accorded by the Goss budget deficit and provided for security of Labor Government to the Legal Aid funding until at least 1994. Commission. Everyone in this place would be In October 1992—that is, only October well aware of the difficult economic pressures last year—the Attorney also achieved another under which the Legal Aid Commission major funding boost for the commission by operates these days. The previous convincing the six major banks to increase Government left in place an entirely their interest payments on solicitors’ trust inadequate funding mechanism to ensure accounts. The funding received by the security of funding to the Legal Aid commission from payments out of solicitors’ Commission. Since this Government came to trust accounts has significantly reduced in office, we have put in place a secure recent years with the downturn in the amount mechanism for ensuring that funding for the of interest being paid on the amounts held in those trust accounts. That has caused a 14 October 1993 5214 Legislative Assembly significant strain on funding available to the provided through a mix of in-house and Legal Aid Commission and has forced the private lawyers. Over the past decade or so, Legal Aid Commission to cut back on some of private lawyers have done very well out of the conditions under which funding has been legal aid. However, the increasing cost of granted and some of the circumstances in access to the law is placing greater and which funding is available. greater pressure on our legal aid resources, On top of those initiatives, this year the which the community as a whole must Government has provided a record 37 per provide. The Government has grasped the cent increase in funding, taking State nettle in funding legal aid services by ensuring Government grants for legal aid to almost that, over the life of this Government, those $10m for the 1993-94 financial year. That funds have increased significantly. That funding comprises the $250,000 available for effects a very direct redistribution of benefits to community legal centres, the $2m one-off those in the community who are least able to grant to improve the level of reserves held by defend their legal rights using their own the Legal Aid Commission, and a base grant resources. this year of $7.736m. In 1992-93—last The new client-oriented, or solution- financial year—the commission provided an oriented, approach of the commission focuses enormous range of services. Every year, those on the provision of appropriate services to services grow in number and complexity. Last meet people’s real needs—the proverbial year, on its telephone information service, prevention being better than cure. The Legal 56 680 information sessions were handled on Aid Commission has identified a number of top of over 35 000 legal advice sessions. Duty target groups to ensure that services are lawyers provided advice in over 7 430 delivered in a way that is tailored to the needs sessions, and legal aid was granted on of those groups, which include children who 17 800 applications. often appear before the Childrens Court; The commission has sought actively to people who are accused of crime and require target the services that it provides so as to preliminary legal advice; victims of domestic provide the maximum benefits for the violence, discrimination and other criminal community from the limited funding that will acts; people living in remote areas who are inevitably be available to its operations. now given greater access to legal aid than Recently, the commission conducted a review ever before; and people with disabilities and of its priorities and a review of the community’s people who suffer disadvantage, both legal needs. The community provided economic and through their non-English strenuous feedback requesting alternative speaking backgrounds. All of those people are legal services, including greater access to now being directly targeted for the special legal information and legal advice, and better assistance and special services on which the community legal education. Legal Aid Commission is focusing. I am pleased to say that the commission As part of its consideration of those has responded to that feedback by adopting priorities, the commission reviewed its what it calls its solution-oriented approach. relationship with the private legal profession, That approach aims to take practical steps to adopting in principle the concepts of special resolve issues, wherever possible, without lists, fixed maximum fees and tendering for court involvement. As members would legal aid services. The new set maximum fees appreciate, that involves increased attention in family law matters were introduced from 1 to the potential for dispute-resolution services October this year. Tenders have been and the provision of self-help kits and accepted and contracts let for the conduct of information classes. Over the past couple of duty lawyer services at the Magistrates Courts years, I have been particularly impressed by in Inala, Holland Park, Brisbane and the efforts of the commission in improving the Townsville. Other areas for possible duty range of self-help or information brochures lawyer services are under consideration. The that are available to the public, which not only scheme for the tendering for duty lawyer explain the way in which the legal system services in Magistrates Courts is operating on operates and the procedures of the courts but a pilot basis at this stage to enable the also provide basic advice on matters, commission to assess the effectiveness of particularly family law. those strategies both from a cost point of view and from the point of view of ensuring that the The Legal Aid Commission has always quality of service and the comprehensiveness provided those traditional legal services: legal of the service across Magistrates Courts are advice, the duty lawyer scheme and legal aid maintained. assistance in private cases. That assistance is Legislative Assembly 5215 14 October 1993

During 1992-93, the commission adopted few months. That program includes the a number of strategies to improve its own expansion of a range of information and administration and to achieve efficiencies. The resource kits available to members of the results exceeded the commission’s targets. public and community workers and increased For example, in the last financial year, the services to young people in particular. A commission aimed to reduce its initial mediation program is also being developed, administration by $500,000. At the end of the particularly to ensure that family law disputes year, it had achieved an $800,000 saving are dealt with by appropriate mediation overall. intervention before requiring any intervention While the Government is considering the by the courts. That is particularly useful in PSMC’s recommendations relating to external access disputes and also in property disputes. legal aid factors, all of the recommendations A family law property settlement service is to of the PSMC designed to achieve efficiencies be introduced by the commission to assist in the internal operations of the Legal Aid couples in resolving property disputes. Those Commission have been or are currently being services are expected to be introduced late implemented. Evaluation of aspects of the this year or early in 1994. Community Services Division has been The significant increase in funding completed, and the introduction of an available to the Legal Aid Commission in this information technology initiative is currently Budget underpins our Government’s sincere under way. Other internal organisational and genuine commitment to ensure that restructuring has already occurred in line with those people who are least able to provide the PSMC’s recommendations to make their own legal services have access to justice. savings on administration or corporate Social justice and legal justice are services costs—issues about which the fundamental principles to which this Opposition complains vigilantly. Government is unequivocally committed. The Regional legal aid offices have also been services provided by the Legal Aid consulting their communities and community Commission, with the enhanced funding that representatives about ways in which to this Government has provided, will ensure that improve the delivery of services in those those principles are maintained in the ensuing regions. In particular, education and financial year. information strategies are being introduced, Mrs GAMIN (Burleigh) (12.54 p.m.): I and the commission is sharing resources with want to refer to many aspects of the Minister’s other organisations to ensure that the portfolio during my contribution to the maximum distribution of services is available in Estimates debate for this department. It is areas outside the major centres. A number of probably not an easy portfolio to administer, joint projects are good examples of the way in and it certainly comes in for the lion’s share of which the commission is sharing those criticism. resources. For example, in conjunction with The Minister has to go a lot further in the Department of Justice and Attorney- improving penalties and sentences. Recently, General, the publication titled Guide to the this Parliament dealt with minor amendments Small Claims Tribunal is currently undergoing to the legislation in respect of fine defaulters, revision. As well, a new edition of the fine options and default periods. Those commission’s booklet on domestic violence, changes were welcomed, but they were only Finding a Way Out, is also being printed with chicken feed when one considers the large the support of the Department of Family number of issues that need to be dealt with. Services. Petitions continue to be presented to this Local authorities and a range of Parliament by members from both sides in community organisations assisted with the which constituents pray that the parole period recently introduced phone/fax legal advice be removed when child molesters are service, which will rely on facsimile access sentenced, that offenders are given and serve being provided by local authorities and maximum sentences and that their names be community organisations in regional areas. released for publication. That is a clear This service will enable people who live in indication that community expectations are remote communities to gain ready access to not being met in respect of serious crimes legal advice and information, and it will against children. However, as the member for supplement the commission’s existing very Burnett mentioned and as I note also, the effective telephone information service. Minister has to some degree made moves in A new Access to Justice program is set to that respect. be introduced by the commission in the next 14 October 1993 5216 Legislative Assembly

Over recent months, much criticism has We have had a spate of crime in suburban been levelled at the judiciary, where again streets on the central Gold Coast—handbag community expectations are not being met in snatching, vandalism, break and enters and respect of women’s interests. It has been cars being broken into. In some instances of interesting, but not very amusing, to watch the street crime, it is suspected that an adult in a legal profession defend itself against those motor vehicle is involved, but we have not criticisms, particularly the criticisms of been able to obtain a vehicle registration judgments that have been grossly offensive number for the police. Those offences have not only to women but also to the general increased in the Palm Beach region since the community. The Senate Standing Committee Department of Social Security and the on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has Commonwealth Employment Service moved received submissions which endorse the their operations to the area. general view that the legal profession puts Women are perfectly capable of itself on a pedestal above community expressing their views, and they know what expectations. they need and what they expect of society. A Mr Welford: You’re a bit of a radical, few weeks ago, I ran a women’s issues and aren’t you? information seminar at Burleigh Waters Mrs GAMIN: If the cap fits! However, we following a similar successful function a year have recently been told by some retired ago. The response was such that this will now judges and others that we must not try to become an annual event. Indeed, many impose community standards on the judiciary. women asked me to run such a seminar two “Trust us”, these learned gentlemen say. We or three times a year, but a tremendous are told by all sorts of criminal law specialists amount of work is involved in setting it up and that it is dangerous for us, the members of the organising good speakers. Once a year is public, to be so critical. We are told that, by enough. Following last year’s seminar, we doing so, we are bringing the judiciary into wrote to all those who had attended and also disrepute. What a load of rubbish! to about 85 community bodies, women’s groups and so on. We asked them what they The Minister should be aware that would like to talk about this year. The throughout Australia, including in Queensland, response was overwhelming. Of course, we there is a broad failing by the judiciary to could not deal with all the topics, but we understand women, women’s affairs and worked our program around what women told women’s issues. Suggestions have been us they wanted to talk about. They wanted to made that judges should be given some talk about their safety in the streets and in training in these matters, and that is not a bad their homes. They wanted to talk about the idea at all. Where I come from—the Gold judiciary and sentencing of criminals, early Coast—the police are reported as having parole and other similar areas where their started a crackdown on drugs, selling and expectations are not being met. receiving stolen property, underage drinking and alcohol-related thuggery. Having done Almost 150 women attended that that and having brought offenders before the seminar, including representatives from about courts, it is to be hoped that the sentences 50 community groups and agencies. They handed down will be a bit better than a slap were all intelligent and articulate women and, on the wrist with a wet lettuce leaf and that despite what one might read, they are not they will reflect community expectations that demanding an excessive level of gender crime should be punished. Muggings, equality. They are not demanding women thuggery and vandalism are not new problems judges from the point of view of a gender to the Gold Coast. Alcohol and drugs are a issue. They certainly want to see more women contributing factor in a significant amount of in all sorts of executive positions arrived at crime. People expect to be able to go out at from their ability and not from any gender night and not be the target of a cowardly basis. However, women feel very strongly that attack or not come home to find that their their views, interests and concerns are not properties have been broken into. They also taken into account by Government. expect that, if the offenders are caught, the Up to 30 per cent of cases before sentences handed down will fit the crime. Queensland judges are disposed of without There were 2 715 car thefts on the Gold convictions being recorded because judges Coast in the 12 months to July. The crime and magistrates are encouraged to impose clean-up rate is not terrific in the area of car punishments that will keep offenders in the thefts but, again, the victims expect the community in preference to imprisonment. offenders, if caught, to be properly punished. There have been occasions on which known child molesters and other sexual offenders Legislative Assembly 5217 14 October 1993 were walking the streets. A frightening statistic the same avenue, through the prosecution, of was reported in the Sunday Mail of 16 May putting forward their accounts before the that often when child molesters are caught it is judge who is to pronounce sentence. for offences against their fiftieth or sixtieth The public prosecutor says that victims of victim. Often rape cases are not pursued crime against the person, more so than other because female victims just cannot face the victims, ought to be consulted before demeaning nature of court proceedings. Yet important decisions are made. He says that, when we ask for minimum mandatory although they cannot be allowed to dictate the sentences, we are told that we are wrong; that course the prosecution should follow, they do a highly skilled and highly trained judiciary have a right to discuss the matter—to have must be allowed to determine an appropriate their views listened to—before a determination sentence. We are told that we must give the is made that will be irreversible. skilled judiciary the discretion to impose sentences and we must not for one moment The Victims of Crime Association, despite be critical of the way in which they use that funding difficulties, does an excellent job in discretion. It is the typical attitude of support and backup for victims, including court professionals talking down to laymen, but it is support. I had a sad case in my electorate a laymen who make up the bulk of the little while ago which I referred to Victims of community and whose standards should be Crime, and I am most grateful to that met by those professional bodies at which organisation for its assistance in a very difficult they are quite entitled to level their criticism. situation. The elderly lady who made an appointment at my electorate office was a Sitting suspended from 1.01 to 2.30 p.m. pensioner in her late sixties who had come up Mrs GAMIN: Prior to the luncheon from New South Wales to take care of her two recess, I was talking about the typical attitude small grand daughters whose mother—her of professionals talking down to laymen. daughter—had been murdered by the father. Laymen make up the bulk of the community At the time, the offender was in prison on and their standards should be met by the remand and awaiting a committal hearing. professional bodies, at whom they are quite The pensioner grandmother was living in her entitled to level their criticism. It can be seen daughter’s house. Some money had come in with Main Roads engineers talking to residents from a small insurance policy held by the who are complaining about a dangerous daughter, but she was basically keeping the corner that the engineers have designed and two small children on her age pension. The will not admit is faulty. I actually heard one ask two little girls were attending the local convent a resident at a progress association meeting, school, which had waived fees. “Do you have a degree? Well, I do, and I The pensioner grandmother was having know better than you.” It can be seen with trouble with social security. We helped to sort architects as they talk down to a housewife that out. She was having trouble with legal who says that she wants to design her own aid. Although we were not really able to sort kitchen. And we are seeing it very clearly now that out properly until after the committal from legally trained professionals who like to hearing and then the trial, the man was found think that they are a cut above ordinary guilty and is now serving a prison term. mortals. However, the grandmother needed to arrange The other topic on which I want to touch for the sale of the house, which was in the in this debate is that of victims of crime. As the joint names of her dead daughter and her member for Indooroopilly pointed out, more criminal son-in-law. She needed to have at funding is urgently needed for that fine least her daughter’s share of the proceeds put organisation. I note that the Director of into trust for the benefit of the children. Prosecutions, in his department’s annual The Victims of Crime Association was report tabled in this Parliament, has able to give her support and assistance, and recommended that victims of crime in we also utilised the services of the local parish Queensland should be told when their welfare setup. I cannot say that it all turned attacker is to be sentenced so they can be in out well, but at least the financial matters have court to give evidence if necessary. I am also been arranged, the grandmother has taken pleased that the Minister has supported that the two little girls back to New South Wales proposal. and she will be able to care for them. But A person who has been convicted of a honourable members should ask themselves crime or who has pleaded guilty is entitled to what sort of life she is going to have in her put material before the court on the issue of declining years as she cares for two growing sentence. Victims of those crimes should have girls. What is going to happen when the father 14 October 1993 5218 Legislative Assembly gets out of gaol and starts looking for his kids? budget introduces a range of new equity and That lady is going to need all the help, support social justice initiatives, as well as capitalises and backup she can get. As I said, I am upon and enhances equity and social justice extremely grateful to the Victims of Crime projects and programs implemented over the Association for the help that they have already last three years. given. This lady’s situation would have been I will deal first with employment. The impossible otherwise. Department of Justice and Attorney-General is Now to the matter of bail—Gold Coast embarking on a program to increase the police have publicly expressed concern about employment of Aboriginal and Torres Strait the number of people who have been Islander persons into the Courts Division and charged with armed hold-ups being granted the Aboriginal Justice Advisory Committee bail by the courts. A senior officer has been Secretariat. In particular, specific initiatives are quoted as saying, “We pick up three or four being undertaken to recruit Aboriginal and armed robbers in one night and, within a few Torres Strait Islander people at the base level days, the courts are letting them out on bail.” to provide career development, particularly The officer said that men who are allowed bail within the courts. Initiatives will also be costing a few thousand dollars often regarded directed at providing graduate employment for that amount as derisory and sometimes did Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to another hold-up to cover the bail. undertake study in conjunction with full-time or part-time employment and for the recruitment We have all seen the reports of the of graduates and school leavers to the career soaring crime rate, and that is particularly true public service. It is hoped that, in time, of the Gold Coast. The only area in which Aboriginal and Islander people will be there has been a small decrease is in break appointed as court registrars. At present, there and enters, and we can put that down to are 16 Aboriginal and Torres Strait people increasing community awareness of home employed in the courts; six are on permanent security. Neighbourhood Watch schemes staff and ten are employed in a trainee or have been very beneficial to home security casual capacity. and community policing. As to violence against women and But the incidence of all other serious girls—female victims of crime will benefit from crimes has risen dramatically. Criminals are a $2.33m Government funding package to holding up chemist shops, service stations implement the prevention of violence against and corner stores. In order to get money, women strategy. Approximately $980,000 will many more people are resorting to violent be used to establish five new domestic crimes. It is not as though weapons are not violence services this current financial year. easy to obtain. Police believe that the only These services will improve access and way to control those types of offences is for support for rural and isolated women, the criminal justice system to look more Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women, critically at applications for bail that are made women from other cultural backgrounds, and by some of those criminals, and also beef up children from violent home backgrounds. Of the number of officers who are involved with that funding package, $200,000 will be used the operational side. People who live in my by the Office of the Director of Prosecutions to electorate have been asking for that for a long ensure that women victims of crime have time. There is no doubt that there are many access to adequate information and support persons who are continuously being during the criminal justice process. This apprehended and who have a history of initiative will also contribute to this violence, and many of them are on bail for department’s role in protecting and upholding similar offences. The people deserve better the rights of victims of crime. This will be from their criminal justice system. achieved by— Finally, I ask the Minister what progress providing support programs for women he is making in formulating anti-stalking laws. and girls who are victims of violent crimes and to implement protocols for sexual There have been some very serious incidents assault cases; concerning stalkers and we have been asking for some time for anti-stalking legislation. I providing training to staff who have note that that has now been introduced in contact with women and girls who are South Australia, and I hope that the Minister victims of violent crimes; and can tell the Committee that it is imminent in conducting a review of legal and judicial Queensland. processes with respect to women’s Mr BRISKEY (Cleveland) (2.36 p.m.): equality before the law. This Justice, Attorney-General and Arts Legislative Assembly 5219 14 October 1993

I will deal now with freedom of information been established between the Aboriginal training. As a part of its educative role, the Justice Advisory Committee and the Justices Freedom of Information and Administration of the Peace Council to develop this program. Law Division carried out instructional seminars The Aboriginal Justice Advisory on the Freedom of Information Act for Committee was established as a part of the Aboriginal and Islander councils in 1992-93. Queensland Government’s response to the I turn now to the Mabo decision and recommendations made by the Royal native title. Although this matter comes within Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in the responsibility of the Honourable the Custody. Committee members are drawn from Premier, the Crown Law Division of the Justice regional networks of Aboriginal and Torres and Attorney-General’s Department has Strait Islander communities, and their purpose provided, and will continue to provide, legal is to provide the Minister for Justice and advice to the Government in relation to this Attorney-General with informed advice on complex inter-governmental question. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander views on Moreover, a unit handling native title matters criminal justice system matters. Their terms of has been established within the Crown Law reference also include proposing changes to Division to provide legal advice to the policies which affect the operation of the Government and to act as solicitors in all criminal justice system and the development native land claims. of programs for crime prevention and social As to the Aboriginal mediation control which enhance indigenous self- project—this program is committed to management and autonomy. The AJAC is improving access by Aboriginal and Torres currently working on its draft strategic plan. Strait Islander people and communities to the Proposed agenda items include the services of the Alternative Dispute Resolution development of a cross-cultural training Division and to assisting in the recognition and program for departmental staff and a Murri development of culturally appropriate dispute court support program. It is envisaged that resolution processes. Activities include the most program development proposals will facilitation of the community dispute resolution place a heavy emphasis on customary law. process on a number of Aboriginal and As to other initiatives—in 1993-94, Islander communities; facilitation of meetings $500,000 has been provided to upgrade the between ATSI communities and the DFSAIA holding cells in courthouses, where prisoners to develop a strategy for the return to the or defendants are placed pending an community of origin of skeletal remains and appearance in court or during recess of the burial artefacts from institutions and court, to a standard which will minimise deaths museums; the production of an Aboriginal in custody as a result of the commission of mediation video, Talk About It, which explores inquiry into Aboriginal deaths in custody. mediation as a mechanism for resolving Holding cells in 14 centres will be upgraded, conflicts; and the development of culturally including ones as far south as Southport, as specific mediation training for ATSI mediators far north as Mossman and Weipa and as far in Cairns. west as Mount Isa. This work has actually As to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait commenced, with several holding cells near Islander training course—alternative dispute completion of their upgrade. All upgrades will resolution—this course was recently be finished by the end of January 1994 at the completed and involved the training of the latest. Hope Vale community members in alternative The Criminal Justice Commission will, as dispute resolution techniques. The a new initiative in 1993-94, work with establishment of a dispute management Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander system in that community is currently in train. communities on public sector corruption and Following on from a visit in late September, organised crime issues. The Legal Aid the community remains very positive about a Commission has amended guidelines to dispute resolution program being include funding for families of Aborigines who implemented. have died in custody. The Queensland Legal In relation to justices of the peace— Aid Commission was, in fact, the first to Aboriginal project—it is planned that a approve aid in this type of matter. program for indigenous people be developed Together with the Department of Family similar to that being developed for Justices of Services and Aboriginal and Islander Affairs, a the Peace (Magistrates Court), with some cross-cultural seminar was held for judicial modifications for Aboriginal and Torres Strait officers and persons working in the court Islander communities. A working party has service, including a three-day workshop. The 14 October 1993 5220 Legislative Assembly

Department of Justice and Attorney-General Torres Strait Islander people under the various has consulted with the Aboriginal Legal programs administered by Arts Queensland. Service in regard to the development of The Electoral Commission is targeting sentencing options under the Penalties and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Sentences Act. The Aboriginal Legal Service communities in its Statewide survey of has been given all material distributed to the electoral awareness currently under way. The judiciary, professional and lay interest groups, results of the survey, together with direct and we await their recommendations. consultation with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Close consultation has been held with the Islander community leaders, will guide and Department of Family Services and Aboriginal inform the development of the commission’s and Islander Affairs concerning any future electoral education and information sentencing systems contained in the programs. In addition, the planning and Community Services (Aborigines) Act 1984 production of a “Votewise” election simulation and the Community Services (Torres Strait) kit to be distributed to schools, colleges and Act 1984, as well as on all other aspects of universities throughout Queensland is the Penalties and Sentences Act to ensure proceeding in consultation with Aboriginal and the Act conforms to the principles set out in Torres Strait Islander communities and the recommendations of the Aboriginal deaths advisory groups. The research and education in custody report. staff of the ECQ also support the Aboriginal The Queensland Anti-Discrimination and Torres Strait Islander electoral information Commission, which is funded by the service delivered throughout Queensland by Department of Justice and Attorney-General, the Australian Electoral Commission. completed its first year of operation in 1992- In 1992-93, the Law Reform 93. Section 126 of that Act proscribes racial Commission’s concern with social justice vilification by prohibiting a person from inciting issues continued as demonstrated by the unlawful discrimination by advocating racial or release of publications on intestacy rules, religious hatred or hostility. Informing the personal property securities, de facto Aboriginal communities regarding the relationships, the Bail Act, assisted and legislation and ensuring the effect of substituted decisions and an issues paper on dissemination of information to these consent by young people to medical communities is an important priority of the treatment. In 1993-94, the Law Reform commission. Commission will continue working on its fourth Arts Queensland is also implementing program of references together with additional policies which enhance or improve equity matters referred by the Attorney. Anticipated considerations in the arts industry. Before publications include consent by young people highlighting the achievements and initiatives in to medical treatment, assisted and substituted this area, I would like to advise members of a decisions and a review of the need for secrecy newly launched trust to promote writings either provisions within current legislation. by or about Aboriginal women. The Pitjaranda I take this opportunity to congratulate the Trust was launched last week—which is ironic Attorney and his department on the fine work timing, given the very recent death of that they have done over the past year. I am Australia’s most famous female Aboriginal sure that, in the year to come, we will see writer, Oodgeroo of the Noonuccal tribe. The many more improvements and reforms by the Department of Justice, Attorney-General and Attorney and his department. Arts, through the Public Trustee, completed all Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—Deputy Leader the legal work for the deed of trust and, on top of the Liberal Party) (2.49 p.m.): During this of that, the Attorney contributed $1,000 to debate, I wish to raise several issues which kick-start the fund. relate to the operation of the Department of In addition to establishing a special Justice and Attorney-General and which are of program to assist projects that maintain or considerable concern to my constituents and revive the traditional culture and language of me. Before doing so, however, I wish to thank Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, the Minister for his and his department’s the Arts Advisory Committee set aside a total courteous handling of my constituents’ of $100,000 towards projects celebrating the queries. I may not agree with a great many of International Year of the World’s Indigenous the Minister’s policies and policy directions, but People. In the last two years, a total of I do wish to go on record as saying that the $892,000 has been provided towards projects Minister is one of the better and more and activities presented by Aboriginal and personal Ministers when it comes to looking Legislative Assembly 5221 14 October 1993 after the representation of members of this Earlier this year, the Queensland Law Parliament. Reform Commission issued an information To begin with, I wish to touch briefly on paper on the subject of consent by young an issue which has recently received quite people to medical treatment. The commission widespread publicity and has been the subject circulated its information paper widely, and of quite a deal of community discussion and since then I have received a great deal of debate. I refer to the issue of judicial feedback about some of the topics which appointments. I particularly draw to the have been raised within the paper. I attention of the Committee and place on the understand that the commission itself also has parliamentary record the comments of Sir received a great number of submissions in Harry Gibbs, former Chief Justice of the High response to its request for feedback. It is no Court, about the importance of appointing wonder it has received so much feedback judicial officers on grounds of merit, not of when one examines some of the questions gender or ethnic background. In the Courier- and issues which the commission will consider. Mail on 27 September, Sir Harry said— I will I detail for the members a few of them. They include— “It would be most unfortunate if appointments to the court were to be whether there should be a fixed age for influenced by populist theories or by an young people under the age of 18 at attempt to carry favour with sectional which they are able to consent to any or interests. limited medical treatment; When the selectors are choosing the whether young persons regardless of Test team, they do not pick a mediocre age, if they understand the nature of the Queensland player when better players medical procedure, should be able to are available, simply because consent; Queensland is not represented in the whether a doctor should be able to team. commence, continue with or refuse to Surely, excellence should be perform medical treatment on a young recognised in law as well as in sport. It is person if he or she believes it to be in the simply nonsense to say that the best interests of the young person; composition of the Bench should reflect whether advice on contraception or the composition of society as a whole. sexually transmitted diseases can be There are obviously some sections of given without parental approval; society which could not sensibly be whether young persons of any age represented on any court since legal should be able to seek such advice knowledge and experience in conducting without approval from parents; litigation as well as high moral character should be necessary qualifications for whether young persons who become appointment.” parents should be able to consent to medical treatment of their own children; I wish to go on record as saying that I agree totally with the comments of Sir Harry Gibbs, at what age a young person can consent for to do otherwise is to undermine the to an abortion without parental approval; standards of the administration of justice and whether young persons can consent to public confidence in it. any treatment that an adult can consent Having said that, I note particularly that, to; recently, several women have been appointed whether there are some forms of medical to the Supreme Court and the District Court of treatment that neither a young person this State. The Government is to be nor parents or guardians should be able commended for the quality of its to consent to, for example— appointments. My congratulations are (a) sex change or re-alignment; extended to Susan Kiefel, QC, on her appointment to the Supreme Court. Her (b) tissue donation; Honour is the second female Supreme Court (c) sterilisation; judge, the first being Margaret White, who was (d) shock therapy; formerly a Master of the Supreme Court. Of course, in the District Court, Her Honour (e) psychotherapy; Margaret McMurdo is doing much good work, the circumstances of intellectually and is a shining example of a good judicial disabled young persons, and who gives practitioner. consent; 14 October 1993 5222 Legislative Assembly

whether young intellectually disabled their own behalf to grant this power. In that persons can refuse treatment even if it is situation, it is the relatives of those people in their best interests; and who struggle with circumstances which young persons aged 16 or over be effectively see them lose control and influence treated as adults in relation to health care over the daily lives of their loved ones. It is and that this be confidential. difficult to think of what else can be done to help overcome this situation. As I have said, These are issues and questions which much publicity has been undertaken already are of great concern to me and to my to inform the public of the availability of constituents. Many who have contacted me Enduring Powers of Attorney. Perhaps more fear that as each day goes by and each new could be done and a more selective marketing law and regulation is brought down in the approach could be undertaken. I again place Parliament of this State, parents are losing on record my appreciation for the sensitive control over the upbringing of their children. and thorough way in which officers of the They are very worried about this alarming Public Trust office deal with this issue. I have trend and clearly wish to reassert their parental had occasion to refer several issues to those rights. I urge the Government and the officers, and they have been very good at Attorney-General and Minister for Justice to trying to come to grips with the specific pay particular attention to this growing mood circumstances of those cases. within the community. As I have said, I share many of the concerns of parents, and I intend Many of my constituents come to me to take a lot of interest in developments and asking for assistance to help them obtain legal future reports of the commission. aid. As speakers before me have stated, the ongoing problem is that the demand for Another issue which is often referred to service exceeds the funds made available to my office is that of the Enduring Powers of meet this demand. I heard the honourable Attorney and the Public Trustee. As is stated member for Everton and the Minister talk in the department’s own publication, it is a sad about the great increase in funding of the fact of life that many people become Legal Aid Office which has taken place during incapable of managing their financial and their time in Government. It is my view—and I legal affairs through dementia, mental or do not wish to be too political about this—that physical illness or severe accident. The the Government is failing to meet its legal aid Enduring Powers of Attorney provisions allow responsibilities, especially at a time when people to appoint someone whom they trust more people than ever are in financial to manage their affairs when they feel that difficulties because of Labor's recession. It is they themselves are no longer able to do so. my contention that the ALP is abandoning the This is an important social role and function, very people who have been hurt. Thus, I especially for the older members of the support the recent call by the shadow community who can, for example, appoint one Attorney-General and member for or more of their children to look after matters Indooroopilly for the CJC to investigate for them. How their financial and other matters immediately the funding of the legal aid are to be looked after once their capacity has system. weakened or disappeared is of great concern to many people. Members will recall that recently the Supreme Court ordered the CJC to rethink its Perhaps the point of greatest concern is refusal to hold an inquiry given the horrendous the timing of the granting of an Enduring statistic that one in three applicants for legal Power of Attorney. Although some people aid are turned away by the Legal Aid Office make this decision in good times, in other because of a chronic shortage of funding. This words while they are still mentally able to do rate of knockback affects particularly so, others are unable to do so, even though applications for assistance in family law cases they might have been preparing to do so, where over 50 per cent of all applications are because of the sudden onset of mental illness refused. Despite that, the Legal Aid Office and disability. In my experience, this is a very does its level best to provide service and the grey and confusing area and one which still Director of the Legal Aid office, John Hodgins, causes people a great deal of heartache. and his staff are to be commended for a job The Government and the Public Trustee well done under extremely difficult are to be commended for their efforts to circumstances. publicise the availability of the Enduring Power I now turn to two other areas of ministerial of Attorney. However, it cannot be denied that responsibility that rest with varying degrees of many people escape this advertising net, and comfort on the shoulders of the Honourable eventually become incapable of acting on the Minister. The first of those issues relates to Legislative Assembly 5223 14 October 1993 the operations of the Electoral Commission for There are two factors that concern me about Queensland. I pay tribute to the tremendous that statement, and I think that the Attorney- work that has done by the commission, General should also be concerned. First of all, particularly in providing quality information and somebody of the legal and interpretative feedback to members of Parliament. For ability of the Chairman of the Criminal Justice example, all members would be aware of Commission would choose his words very some of the very valuable reports—the carefully, and I am concerned with those two statistical reports—that have been provided by words, “we understand”. For the chairman of the commission. One is titled Statistical the Criminal Justice Commission to have to Reports from the Scanning System, insert those two words would almost suggest Queensland Legislative Assembly Election 19 that he is not certain as to whether or not a September 1992. I am sure that all members review is taking place. That is an issue that of this place strive to understand the precise should be of concern to all members of this nature of their electorates. They seek as much Parliament. I do agree with the comments qualitative information, either through their made by the honourable member for own direct efforts or through the efforts of Indooroopilly when he says that he is other people, for a better understanding of concerned that the whole reform process is how their electorate is made up. being undermined. The other concerning part I am very pleased to be able to say on of that statement, which is a small but the public record that the Electoral extremely significant statement in that report, Commission provides much valuable is the statement that says, “The Commission information that enables us to understand our is not, however, represented on this working electorates better. The staff of the commission party.” also provides many other reports and seek to How can a proper review of the Acts take answer queries with promptness and clarity. place when in fact the commission is not For that, I am certainly one member of represented on that working party? How can a Parliament who is very grateful for the review of the operations of the commission—a assistance. In particular, the commission has proper review—take place when, in fact, the recently reformed the system and is now able Commission is not represented on the working to take people off the electoral roll so that the party? Clearly, the desire of Executive rolls are clean and are as up to date as Government through the Office of the Cabinet possible given all the circumstances that and the other various departments that are apply. That is a move in the right direction. I represented on that particular review particularly commend the member for committee—the role of Executive Government Indooroopilly and shadow Minister for his and its desire to have maximum influence on efforts that were put into that exercise. I am it—is quite apparent from that particular sure that all members of this place will benefit section of the report. The chairman felt from it. compelled to talk about that and issued a In the time that is left available to me, I public warning. Without going into great detail, wish to address the issue of the CJC and the one needs only to look at the recent headlines Government’s activities in relation to it. I have in the newspapers, which say “CJC fears two major concerns when it comes to the CJC, overhaul” and “Don’t tamper with the CJC, and I have previously expressed them in this chief warns”. I strongly recommend that the place in a very detailed fashion. However, I Attorney-General take a greater amount of wish to touch upon them again. First of all, I interest in the independence of a commission am concerned about this Government’s for which he has some administrative apparent andcontinuing willingness, to responsibilities. tamper with its independence. One need not I am concerned by the inability and look beyond this year’s annual report of the unwillingness of this Government to deal with Criminal Justice Commission to be able to the reform of the Act that is necessary. The observe that that is the case. I quote from one Parliamentary Criminal Justice Committee only section of the CJC report on page 13 where a week or so ago brought in report No. 20 the chairman states— Part B. Within that report it brought down 15 “We understand that the Act is being recommendations. The first four reviewed by an interdepartmental working recommendations went along this line: the party established by the Office of the committee endorses the recommendation, Cabinet. The Commission is not, whatever that recommendation is, as however, represented on this working endorsed by the previous committee. party.” Recommendation after recommendation is a recommendation agreeing with what the 14 October 1993 5224 Legislative Assembly previous committee did. I ask: when are the called the Criminal Justice Commission Attorney-General and members opposite (CJC).” going to get serious in terms of making it I referred to those passages because I am easier for the Criminal Justice Committee to concerned that, unfortunately, the honourable be a more effective and efficient crime body member for Crows Nest, Mr Cooper, and the by amending the Act as has been honourable member for Indooroopilly, Mr recommended by the previous committee Beanland, have publicly attacked the many times over? It is not good that we get commission for carrying out its proper role. these types of reports where simply the report recommends the recommendations of the For the benefit of honourable members, I previous committee, many of which were table clippings of recent newspaper articles in made several years ago. which both gentlemen attacked the commission. Those newspapers included the I respectfully submit to the Attorney- Courier-Mail on 8 October 1993 and the General that he, the Government and other Australian. One of articles states— people, including the Premier, who have had responsibility for the CJC, have had plenty of “Former Queensland Premier, time to consider the hundreds of pages of Russell Cooper, is no dope when it very detailed reports and recommendations comes to upholding the law in possession which have sought to make the life of the CJC and use of marijuana.” an easier and more efficient one. It is time I think that is probably arguable. I table those that the Government was forthcoming with newspaper reports because they indicate a action. lack of understanding on the part of Mr Time expired. Cooper and Mr Beanland. Both of them have been playing short-term, cheap politics. It is Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) about time they stopped trying to use the CJC (3.04 p.m.): It gives me great pleasure to as a political football and allowed it to get on participate in this Estimates debate. As with the job that it was appointed to do, as honourable members are aware, I have envisaged by Tony Fitzgerald. Because of expressed my support for this reforming their opportunistic attacks on the commission, Attorney-General on previous occasions and, both gentlemen are losing the respect of the therefore, I will enjoy making my contribution community. to today’s debate. I begin by raising two matters involving the Criminal Justice The second matter that I want to raise in Commission, which falls within the relation to the CJC is organised crime which, responsibility of this Minister. These Estimates as we all know, has a close relationship to provide a significant amount of money to the drugs. That is why the commission’s report on Criminal Justice Commission, which has drawn cannabis is important. On page 360 of his the approval of its current Chairman, Rob report, Tony Fitzgerald said— O’Regan. “Organised crime is an especial I must first praise the CJC for properly threat, since it leads to the perversion carrying out the review of the drug laws as and corruption of the basic institutions of required by the Fitzgerald report on page 362, our society. Its sophistication, adaptability where it states— and wealth make it extraordinarily difficult to combat. “Prostitution, other voluntary sexual behaviour, SP bookmaking, illegal Organised crime cannot exist on the gambling and the illicit side of alcohol and scale which it does without the knowledge drugs are presently criminal offences, but and help of otherwise honest citizens, the laws concerning them are not both individual and corporate. Organised effectively enforced. From a resources crime can afford the best in equipment, point of view, there are arguments for technology and advice, sometimes decriminalisation and regulation of some provided by unethical professionals.” of these types of conduct.” He raised concerns about organised crime. Further down on that page it states— Organised crime needs to be tackled “This report does not make a final head-on in an honest, open way, devoid of recommendation on decriminalisation of cheap, petty, party politics. Accordingly, it any offences, or on the other suggestions would be in the community interest to have an mentioned above, but sees them as open, frank, public discussion about organised priorities for review by an independent but crime. It has not happened to date and is long accountable body later recommended overdue. To be frank, I am disappointed that the CJC has not honoured its commitment to Legislative Assembly 5225 14 October 1993 the first Parliamentary Criminal Justice for Broadwater, who is not in the Chamber but Committee, which I chaired, that it would who has raised this issue on a number of produce a general report for this Parliament occasions, read the Parliamentary Criminal on organised crime. It was well established Justice Committee’s report dated 16 July 1991 with the first committee that the CJC would regarding Huey which incorporated the produce a report which would shed some light independent report from two New South on this serious and sensitive subject, but Wales police officers in which this conclusion without jeopardising current operations. The was reached. I will save him the trouble of original committee anticipated that the report reading the whole report, because I know that would be produced at the end of 1992 or at he has difficulty in reading. Instead, I simply the beginning of 1993. It is overdue. I hope refer him to page 32. that the commission will produce such a report The independent policemen said this— before the end of 1993. The commission is aware of my strong views on this issue and “Clearly, these matters were never the views of former committee members. I am investigated in any depth by Reynolds a strong advocate of the need for a public and Harris—what investigation did take discussion on ethnic organised crime, place was cursory and appears to have including the Yakuza and the Triads. I intend consisted of merely reading documents to strongly pursue that issue in this place and supplied to them by Butler.” outside it on other occasions, and I look Butler was the real troublemaker in all of this. forward to that report. At page 33, the two independent police However, for there to be a sensible officers concluded— debate about organised crime and drug law “Their actions”— reform, the Opposition needs to adopt a referring to Harris and Reynolds— positive and constructive attitude. If it does not, that debate will not be conducted in the “were, in our view, unwarranted, way that was envisaged by Commissioner unreasonable, and provocative, and Fitzgerald. I often listen to the honourable given the age of the matters and the fact member for Indooroopilly when he comes into that Huey had faced criminal proceedings this Chamber and talks about legal matters. relating to the same circumstances, He reads his speeches, which are prepared by tantamount to abuse of process—but other people. I am sure that the honourable most of all—their actions were unfair.” member reads his speeches with a real sense That is the conclusion of two independent of discovery, because he has never read them police officers. before. However, I do think that, if he is going The honourable member for Broadwater to make a significant contribution, the has been more than unfair in using the honourable member needs to be better privilege of this House to denigrate Huey. I informed, and he needs to be more have said previously in the Chamber that I constructive in the points that he makes. have never met Huey. To have a sensible Mr Robertson: That will make a change. debate, we should understand exactly the Mr BEATTIE: It will indeed make a modus operandi and agenda of Bob Butler. In change. this matter, the agenda is very party political. I agree with the statement on this matter that Mr Davies: Would you agree that he is the Attorney made in this place last year. shallow? I refer also the honourable member for Mr BEATTIE: Indeed—very transparent. Broadwater to the Carter report, which was Before I deal with the funding for the titled Report by the Honourable W. G. Carter, Office of the Director of Prosecutions, I briefly QC, on his Inquiry into the Selection of the make reference to a person by the name of Jury for the Trial of Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen Robert Butler. He was the subject of a PCJC and tabled in this House in August this year. inquiry and is therefore relevant to these He referred to Butler—the man who incited Estimates. Harris and Reynolds. Both of them are When I was in Britain recently, I was probably reasonable people, although they reading a publication which referred to 1992 have been incited, misused and abused by as being the Queen’s annus horribilus. If Butler for his political agenda. Let us look at anyone had an annus horribilus in Australia what Carter said about Butler. That is another last year or this year, it was Robert Butler. On independent report. Again, to save the two occasions he has been condemned by honourable member for Broadwater reading individual reports. I suggest that the member the full report, the quotes are on pages 472, 473 and 474. Carter said— 14 October 1993 5226 Legislative Assembly

“Butler was at all material times both difficulty in conducting even the most basic of before and during the trial in close their functions—court work. In 1989, the contact with O’Brien and knew that prosecutions office received just over $4m, O’Brien’s disclosure to Greenwood QC and I remind members how that poverty-line and Gundelach was falsely deceptive and funding prompted the then director to make intended to be so.” this scathing attack in the 1989 annual At point 10, he stated— report— “Butler falsely denied that he had “Funding of this office has been any knowledge of matters concerning jury inadequate, and is causing serious vetting and selection. His evidence that problems. . . What we do risk unless he deliberately dissociated himself from things are soon corrected is a very matters concerning jury vetting and significant curtailment of the right to trial selection is false.” by jury . . . We look at a third rate criminal justice system unless something is done.” At point 17, he stated— That is the legacy that this Government “Butler had had, at least for some was left by the National Party. From a funding months prior to 23 September 1991, an base of just over $4m four years ago, this active association with the Friends of Joh 1993-94 Budget sees yet another increase to movement with which Shaw had been the Office of the Director of Prosecutions, identified.” taking its funding from $4m in 1989 to over On page 474, he stated— $10m. Since coming to office at the end of “Greenwood QC and Gundelach 1989, this Government has added a number were falsely and deliberately misled by of crucial budgetary elements to the Office of O’Brien, to the knowledge of Butler.” the Director of Prosecutions’ allocation each year. For example, after the 1989 election, we On the same page, at point 4, he stated— added to base expenditure the following: “That the joint purpose of O’Brien witness expenses, enhancements and a and Butler in the deception of briefing-out allowance. In 1992-93, the Greenwood QC and Gundelach was to following were also added to base effect the dismissal of Panel Z and thus expenditures: an allocation for a prosecutor to make available the chance that Panel and clerk in Cairns, and an ongoing Treasury P, of which it was known that Shaw was a supplementation. member, might be substituted.” Discounting the “us and them” To explain all of those details at great comparison for a moment, this Budget length would waste the time of this provides another increase in funding for the Committee. Butler was manipulating Harris director’s office for 1993-94. The Office of the and Reynolds. He was manipulative in the Joh Director of Prosecutions will be almost $1m jury matter and he should not be taken better off. That 10.5 per cent funding increase seriously in the way that he has been by some takes its total budget for 1993-94 to members of the press. He has sought to $10,027,000. That means that more legal distort the truth and to misrepresent the officers and administrative support staff can circumstances. He has been condemned by be employed, as well as the development of a two reports. I hope that the member for new strategy for dealing with female victims of Broadwater will not continue to be crime, which was long overdue. manipulated and duped in the way that he Those extra resources benefit not just the has been and that he will take the trouble to court work side of prosecutions. They also read those statements to which I have mean that the Office of the Director of referred. Prosecutions can pay more than just lip- Mrs Edmond: He looks for silly, gullible service to policy issues. I commend politicians to use. prosecutions for recognising and integrating Mr BEATTIE: Indeed, he has done, and into its management programs that no single he will do so again. In the time remaining to entity in the criminal justice system can me, I turn to the major purpose of my speech. operate independently. Prosecutions is but I am pleased to see the significant budgetary one part of the whole criminal justice network, and policy improvements in the Office of the and therefore each policy and procedure Director of Prosecutions. When this implemented by each participant will impact Government came to office at the end of on all others. I hope that the honourable 1989, the director’s office was so dramatically member for Indooroopilly is listening to this underfunded that the prosecutors had great contribution. Legislative Assembly 5227 14 October 1993

In light of that, the policies of the Office of drafting briefs that they did not prosecute the Director of Prosecutions acknowledge the themselves. In short, we have made integration of the system, with the office enormous progress. therefore constantly revising and reassessing Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (3.19 p.m.): I am its procedures and resource utilisation. The pleased to join in this debate on the Estimates overall top priority of the Office of the Director for Justice, Attorney-General and the Arts. of Prosecutions is to maximise the Most people in the community have some effectiveness of the criminal justice system for interest in or have been involved in that field. I the people of Queensland. It is important that cannot let pass the opportunity to comment justice be delivered swiftly but fairly at minimal on the statement made by the honourable financial cost to the community, while also member for Brisbane Central about members recognising the need to ensure that victims of reading set speeches, and that being a travel crime are treated fairly and compassionately. of discovery. More Government members The budget increases provided each year than Opposition members read their by this Government give the director’s office speeches. greater ability to address each of those Mr T. B. Sullivan: We read them better. demands. The prosecutions office has identified a number of specific initiatives which Mr STEPHAN: Government members will receive continued action, including: policies might read them better; I will give them that. and procedures to maximise judges’ time; Because so many Government members read policies and procedures to rationally use their speeches, I cannot help wondering how available resources within the system; new many of them are given to those members by policies and procedures addressing the role of the departments. victims of crime, especially female victims; Mr Beattie: But I don’t. programs to ensure constant liaison and Mr STEPHAN: I did not say that the cooperation between all participants in the honourable member did. However, a great criminal justice system; and maintaining parity number of Government members read set with other sections of the Queensland public speeches. Media people and departmental service in terms of client delivery. officers write them. I turn to policies and procedures to Mr Davies: There are two problems. One maximise judges’ time. The greatest cause of is reading speeches and the other is lost judicial time is an aborted trial as a result understanding speeches. of a discontinuance by the Crown or a late plea by the defence. I have talked about that Mr STEPHAN: In many instances, I do in the Chamber previously. All sections of the not think that Government members have criminal justice system are endeavouring to either of those abilities. Certainly, they do not minimise lost judicial time from those sources. understand what they are saying. They do The prosecutions office is no exception. The agree with the Minister; I will give them that. following systematic initiatives have been On the other hand, they were probably under generated by that awareness, including: instructions to agree with the Minister. enhancement of the court operations section; I want to commence my contribution to enhancement of the District Court file review this debate with the arts. For quite some time, system; establishment of a sentence section; various arts projects have been encouraged creation of a submissions and conference and provided with funding, and I agree with section, staffed by an administrator; and that. Three or four months before the Budget provision of Crown prosecutors for was delivered, many arts groups were conferences and mediation. expressing concern about the future of their I turn briefly to policies and procedures to funding. They were concerned not only for rationally use available resources within the their own projects but also for those projects in system. All public servants are responsible for which young people participate. Those the effective and maximum deployment of projects include musical and performing arts available resources. Additionally, the office of programs in schools, which have very positive prosecutions is charged with the duty of benefits for young people. They give young providing the highest standard of prosecutions people an interest and an incentive to that resources will permit. Those two participate in a positive activity such as complementary duties were discharged by the learning a musical instrument or vocal or creation, in 1990, of a preparations section. theatrical performances. It is great to see that Prior to 1990, it was estimated that type of support and encouragement being approximately 90 per cent of Crown given to young people, and I hope that it prosecutors’ time was spent preparing and continues. 14 October 1993 5228 Legislative Assembly

However, may I point out that some people to become commissioners for schools in country areas are not receiving declarations and undertake that role in the support for such programs, and that is a pity. community, a training program is essential. If The students in country areas are just as people are wanting to take part in such a entitled to that form of education as are the course, they should be informed when students in larger centres. As a result of those courses are being held. programs, many youth musical societies are I have written to the Minister on the topic being established. Those societies are being of the authority of commissioners for supported strongly by parents. They provide a declarations. However, I have not had the wonderful source of entertainment to the privilege of receiving a reply to that letter. whole community. Some of my friends in the legal fraternity have On a not-so-positive note, I now turn to written to the Attorney in a similar vein. One of museums. Although museums contribute a the letters written to me from a solicitor in my great deal to the community, they are usually area stated— established only because of the interest “It appears to me that pursuant to shown by some members of the community. Section 3.14 (7) a Commissioner for The Government provides some funding for Declarations may only exercise powers museums, and that is a good thing. The and witness documents which authorise a greatest service that a Government can Commissioner for Declarations to do provide is to assist community organisations to those acts. put in place programs that are desired by and necessary to a community. Gympie has two I do not know of any legislation museums. One is a historical museum and authorising Commissioners for the other is a woodworks museum. They are Declarations to exercise any powers and both attributes to the Gympie community. accordingly their use would appear to be However, the woodworks museum does not extremely limited. open during the week and only on the My letter to the Attorney-General weekend by arrangement. Many visitors to dated 28th July, 1992 does not appear to Gympie are disappointed to discover that they have ever received a reply and whilst it is cannot visit the woodworks museum unless quite possible that I am incorrect in my somebody else has arranged for it to be open. assessment of this situation I would have Most visitors are not aware that prior thought that the Attorney-General might arrangements are necessary. The woodworks have pointed out where my argument museum is located in the Forestry complex. I failed prior to this point in time.” pass those comments on to the Minister for As I said, I have also written a letter to the the Arts. However, I realise that this matter is Attorney on this subject, but I did not receive a also the responsibility of the Forestry reply from the Attorney-General. As a result, I Department. wrote a second letter seeking clarification, and For some time, I have received once again a reply has not been forthcoming. representations on the subject of That solicitor’s letter to the Attorney-General commissioners for declarations. One of the stated— problems is the delay in processing the “We have recently had occasion to applications for those positions. A steady peruse an Enduring Power of Attorney stream of people lodge an application to be a witnessed by a Commissioner for commissioner for declarations but six months Declarations. In an attempt to confirm the later have received no word on the progress of validity of the document we perused the their application. As well, there appears to be Property Law Act and ascertained that an very little coordination between the office of Enduring Power of Attorney must be the Commissioner for Declarations and those witnessed by a Justice of the Peace. in charge of the courses run by TAFE. People Upon perusal of Section 3.14 (7) of The have told me that they are waiting for the Justices of the Peace and details of a TAFE course for which they have Commissioners for Declarations Act we applied. I have said to them, “I know that one note that a Commissioner for is just about to get under way.” Yet those Declarations may attest an instrument people have been told that no course has that may be attested under any Act or been arranged. I am not too sure whether that law. In the case of Enduring Powers of was because the course was full or an attempt Attorney, the only Act or law relevant is to limit the numbers. However, it is the Property Law Act and it does not disappointing that the coordination in that authorise attestation by a Commissioner respect seems to be lacking. If we want for Declarations.” Legislative Assembly 5229 14 October 1993

Again, I seek the Attorney-General’s I turn now to dispute resolution. A great clarification on that matter. It is of concern not deal is made of how legal aid has been only to me as a member of Parliament but extended, but I am finding that in my also to the legal fraternity. If we are on the electorate legal aid services have decreased. wrong track, so be it. However, if we are not Fewer legal firms are willing to take on legal on the wrong track, we would certainly aid work. In fact, many people who I thought appreciate some clarification along those would be eligible for legal aid have not been. lines. The Minister commented that an additional $2m has been provided for legal aid. Where Page 128 of the program statements did it go? I am receiving more and more refers to the fact that the Joint Organised expressions of concern from people who I Crime Task Force will continue to compile thought would have been eligible but who are profiles of organised criminal enterprises in not. I question that aspect of eligibility for legal Queensland. It mentions the reports titled aid. The Minister has said that the Cannabis and the Law in Queensland and Consolidated Fund allocation to legal aid will Review of the Implementation of Fitzgerald increase by 37 per cent to ensure that Reforms in the Queensland Police Service. sufficient funds are held by the commission Certainly, the growing of cannabis is becoming and that present levels of operation are very widespread in the metropolitan area. maintained. There is a great need in the Some people are growing cannabis in sheds community for that increased allocation. and under homes in a very professional People have a right to receive legal manner, including providing lighting to representation. encourage plants to grow. Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) If we are to be genuine in implementing (3.34 p.m.): I rise to address the Estimates for Fitzgerald reforms and continuing them Justice and Attorney-General and the Arts, through, we should be looking at ways of and particularly to highlight improvements in eliminating those problems, not merely saying our court system and important justice of the that they are too hard to control. Many peace reforms. Fitzgerald programs have been sidestepped. To ensure that this year’s Budget The Government talks about the expansion of allocation of over $66m is not just a band-aid drug control, but it has not done much in that approach to the problems that we have in our area or in the area of prostitution. legal system, many new and redesigned I turn to the subject of administration of programs and policies are being implemented justice. Managerial rights for bodies corporate by the courts through the departmental Courts should be investigated. The developer, in Division. For example, the Courts Division is most cases, endeavours to sell the rights of actively pursuing areas in which dispute the unit which goes with the rights, and which prevention, mediation, pre-trial conferences, is tied down to the rights by a bylaw drawn up and other alternative dispute resolution by the developer. The developer retains the methods can effectively be implemented. This purchase price of the unit, which he is certainly means that the traditional and adversarial entitled to do, but he also retains the amount court structures can often be avoided, and paid for the managerial rights. Those funds litigation is far less costly to the average belong to the body corporate and not to any citizen. Further, the more that matters are particular person or company, even though settled outside the court system the more that that person or company may at any time, waiting time inside the courts is reduced and because he has not sold many or any units, speedier progress of justice is enabled. be the only member of the body corporate. Criminal and civil case statistics show A body corporate is an entity, and not a that, when some form of non-court mediation person or a company. Funds cannot be is used, more than 80 per cent of matters removed from the body corporate’s bank result in either a guilty plea, the matter or part account for personal use—they must account of it being dropped or, in a predominance of cases, the parties settling out of court. This for the use of those amounts—nor can current results in significant and substantial savings to owners remove their share of moneys within all involved. These reforms introduced by the the body corporate bank account. That matter Attorney-General provide greater access to needs to be clarified and remedied to the our courts, a greater finality to the results and extent that the existing rights moneys belong very practical savings. to the bodies corporate and should remain in the body corporate bank account for future While a very successful alternative use. dispute resolution scheme already operates within the Community Justice Program of the 14 October 1993 5230 Legislative Assembly

Attorney-General’s Department, a number of budget for the courts. It was designed to other strategies for diverting matters from the equip registrars to better manage court traditional court processes are being piloted. registries from both a service and budgetary Members on the other side of the Chamber point of view. Further, two court officers have had years and years to change things, to completed the specialist course in court policy implement reforms or to at least bring about and administration on offer at the University of some reform, and they did nothing. In the Wollongong. The Courts Division sponsored short space of four and a half years, this these staff, with the return on this investment Attorney-General, with the backing of the being better court management in coming Government, has made significant changes to years. That is a further example of where the the legal processes within this State. Government is prepared to step back, see For example, in Cairns and Townsville, a what is there, assess what is needed and test program is under way whereby the spend money on in-servicing so that we can registrar holds pre-trial conferences in the civil end up with a better service and a better and criminal jurisdictions of the Supreme result. Court. This program aims to reduce legal The Supreme and District Courts are argument in court, and so far appears to be currently undergoing a comprehensive revision very successful. Of the 20 pretrial conferences of their case flow management system and of held in the most recent sittings of the procedures and staffing requirements. That Supreme Court civil jurisdiction at Townsville, review will result in a steady reduction in court 10 have been settled outside of court. This delays and improve utilisation of scarce judicial has saved an estimated 24 court days at time. One of the major criticisms that I hear Townsville. A further five cases were found to from residents and community groups in the be not ready, which saved a further 12 days in electorate of Chermside is the length of delays the Townsville court. Therefore, the cases that in court proceedings. There are some go to trial are being processed much more complaints about the outcomes, or quickly, people are having their affairs settled sentencing, but the major complaint is about and the residents of Townsville and Cairns in delays and justice not coming in a reasonable those two examples are being better serviced time. The saying that “justice delayed is justice by the Government. Selected Supreme, denied” is certainly in the minds of many District and Magistrates Courts staff have constituents. completed mediation training through the Concerning Magistrates Courts—a survey Australian Commercial Disputes Centre, and of the facilities and training needs in every have since trained other staff throughout the Magistrates Courts centre has been courts. completed, and steps are being taken to The system of pretrial conferences in the ensure that the safety and privacy needs of Magistrates Courts civil jurisdiction is now well domestic violence applicants and other clients established. These are presided over by are met. With the breakup of families in our registrars of the court, and are held between society, this part of the law and the judicial parties before the majority of Magistrates system needs great sensitivity. Just as there is Courts hearings, and help to resolve disputes. great positive passion in a healthy marriage, In addition, some registrars have begun when that love turns to hate the passion of mediating in pretrial conferences for Children’s hate leads to great domestic violence and a Court care and protection matters, a very great many murders. That is something that delicate area of law. our court system has had to face up to. This As alluded to previously, simply throwing Government, through this Minister, is doing money at the court system can be a band-aid that. approach. Management procedures must also The Self Enforcing Ticketable Offence identify and implement optimal court efficiency Notice System (SETONS) Court was policies. Employing more judges does not of proclaimed, and the court itself commenced itself mean that the courts will be more operation on 27 September 1992. SETONS efficient. The Attorney-General, rightly, has to uses computer technology to enforce certain judge the outlays against the demands that traffic offences, and saves both police and some members of the judiciary are making. court time. In the 12 months since the system A comprehensive program of commenced operating, 39 000 matters have management training has been completed for been processed. This translates to the time of all registrars. The program was sponsored, in more than 20 police officers, half a magistrate part, by the Queensland Public Sector and a court officer being saved. Training Council and was paid for from the Legislative Assembly 5231 14 October 1993

I have a little chuckle to myself when I that is another simple management procedure hear members of the Opposition say, “Give us that has been effected by this Attorney- more police. You have not done this. You General. have not done that.” This is the group that left It is also pleasing to note the greater the police and the courts with manual flexibility in the appointment of magistrates, as typewriters. This Government, through this three of the four recent appointments came Attorney-General, has introduced a system from outside the ranks of clerks of the court, that can process 39 000 minor offences and which has been the traditional source. Two of save the time of 20 police officers. It was a those appointed were practising barristers matter of bringing those people out of the and, in addition, they were women. past and at least into the nineteenth century. Fortunately, we have taken them into the I turn now to the Supreme and District twenty-first century through some of these Courts. I congratulate the Attorney-General on reforms. appointing a second female to the bench of the Supreme Court. This appointment saw To help bring the courts and the people Queensland’s number of female Supreme closer together, on 8 May 1993, an open day Court judges accounting for 50 per cent of all was held at the Cairns Court House. This was such commissions in Australia. The Attorney the first time that an activity such as that has also appointed two women to the bench occurred. It proved to be a very successful of the District Court. When the Goss Labor venture. Seventeen members of the staff Government came to office at the end of assisted at the open day in providing 24 court 1989, not a single woman had been tours to 530 members of the public. As a appointed to the Supreme, District or member of the Parliamentary Public Works Magistrates Court benches. Now, two women Committee, I had the privilege of inspecting preside on both the Supreme and District that courthouse. Courts, as well as four female magistrates. In another client-friendly initiative, an Only several months ago, an amendment instructional guide has been produced to to the Supreme Court legislation saw the assist people making a claim through the removal of the ceiling on the number of Small Claims Tribunal. These guides are judges. Previously, the maximum number of available from local courthouses, and are judges allowed on the Supreme Court was 20. specifically designed to assist claimants in the Already, with the appointment of Her Honour preparation and presentation of their cases Justice Susan Kiefel, the number of Supreme before the tribunal. In the last financial year, Court judges has increased from 20 to 21. the sum of $365,000 was spent in upgrading the computer technology in registries I turn now to justices of the peace throughout the State, so that all registries now reforms, because I wish to leave some time have computer and printer facilities. for one of my colleagues to speak. Through Something which we in Brisbane take for these reforms, the Attorney-General has granted is what the Attorney-General has now brought the office of justice of the peace provided in all registries throughout the State. closer to the people and made it much more This shows a commitment to rural and practical. I congratulate the Minister on his regional Queensland, as well. The installation past reforms and express the thanks of the of these computer facilities has resulted in good people of the Chermside electorate for massive time savings due to the fact that the important improvements contained in this many procedures are now computerised Budget. The people of Queensland look rather than being carried out manually. forward to further successes in his overseeing of the legal procedures in this State and The Criminal Registry System—CRS— bringing justice to all citizens. was extended to Cairns and is now connected across all major courthouse registries in the Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (3.46 p.m.): In State. The system negates the need for joining this debate today, I will take an manual records to be maintained and unusual line. I will not cover all of the Minister’s increases speed and efficiency in retrieving portfolio. In fact, I will confine my remarks to information for better client service delivery. one particular line that appears on page 283 This enables Queensland fines to be paid at of Budget Paper No. 3. It states “Film Industry any registry office on the CRS system, Incentives”, which are estimated at $6.121m. regardless of where they were incurred. That The comment on page 282 is— saves time for the average citizen who has a “The Queensland Film Development fine to pay. It also makes the collection of Office provided development assistance revenue faster and it saves time, because to one feature film, a children’s television there are fewer follow-up procedures. Again, series and a national multicultural drama 14 October 1993 5232 Legislative Assembly

series for SBS Television produced in contract. Then there are feature films, which Queensland during 1992-93.” are the flagships of the industry. There are I support very much what the Minister is doing. also TV dramas and documentaries. We do I will repeat a statement made recently by not hear much about them. Andrew Denton, a well-known comedian—but We have a proud record of feature films he was not joking. He said, “America is taking in Australia. It is claimed that Australia over the world without leaving home.” I ask all produced the first full-length movie in the members of this Committee to reflect upon world. I believe that it was the story of Ned the influence of American culture that, Kelly. From memory, it was filmed in 1906. because of its television and film industry, is The Minister might have a more accurate invading Australia. knowledge of that than I do. We went through Ms Spence: Cultural imperialism. a stage when Australians were the curiosity of the world. People wanted to see our films, and Mr FITZGERALD: It is cultural we had innovative people working in films. imperialism. That is quite right. We must be People such as Charles Chauvel, who made conscious that we Australians are unique. We Forty Thousand Horsemen, became famous. are proud to show the world what we are. I They were heroes. Charles Chauvel has quite believe that, with that one line in this Budget, a connection with my electorate. In fact, a the Minister indicates that this Government is road in my electorate is named after him. willing to try to establish a film and television industry in Queensland. I wish him luck and However, we went through a stage when every success, but I believe that we need to the Federal Government decided to give great go further. I hold strongly to the view that, with incentives to the film industry and introduced our culture and heritage, we have a lot to offer the 10 (b) (a) tax incentive, which meant that the rest of the world and should be exporting people could have 150 per cent written off it. As well, we also need the jobs that are their tax. People did not pay any tax until they created by the film and television industry, received 50 per cent of their money back. It which is very much a people industry. had the desired effect. It was just a licence to Although we hear about the megabucks going print money. Not only did serious film makers into that industry, the majority of the money try to continue to make films during this time goes towards employing people. It does not but also accountants and dodgy producers all go to the stars; it goes to the film crews, became involved and a spate of awful films make-up artists, set designers and other was produced. They became involved in soft workers. porn. All they had to do was hire a crew. Recently, a film made in Queensland A former member of this place, Clive received some backing from the Minister’s Berghofer, was a very shrewd investor. He department. That film, Rough Diamond, stars took some good advice from his accountant Jason Donovan, an Australian boy. Part of and he backed a film titled The Killing of Angel that film was made at Boonah in the Lockyer Street. He told me that he was made an offer electorate, and part of it was filmed at the that he could not refuse. I do not think that Mr Boonah rodeo grounds. That will be of some Berghofer was a great film buff, but he knew interest to the locals when they go to see that how to make a dollar. He said, “Even if they film. Many of them were part of the crowd. do not get one person sitting in a seat in the They had the advantage of seeing a film cinema, I am in front.” I presume that he was being made. I understand that, in the film, the in the highest tax bracket. The film was a hero has a hell of a fall and his mate goes out reasonable film. I am not saying that Mr to rescue him. I understand that some of the Berghofer was not a conscientious investor. shots were taken in the Brisbane Valley. He had a lot of pride in that film. I attended its premiere in Toowoomba. He made a lot of The film industry is very speculative in money out of that film. However, the Federal some areas but not in others. The industry Government then changed the 10 (b) (a) itself is very wide-ranging. It covers a large clause, and reduced the threshold to 120 per number of sectors. We could analyse the cent write-off. In other words, making films industry and break it down into its various became less lucrative from a taxation point of sectors, including the production of view. We now have some very good films commercials, corporate videos and training being produced. I am glad that that spate of films. There is obviously good money in that bad films is over. I want to see our film sector of the industry. The clients are there industry develop on quality. and the cash is up front. The product can go onto the screens straightaway. There is a sure The third stage is television dramas and return for anyone who can get that type of a documentaries. They are extremely important Legislative Assembly 5233 14 October 1993 because they are the bread and butter of the and no-one has been game to change the industry. They employ a lot of people, attitude that has existed in Australia for some particularly in the television series and dramas. time towards the production of children’s A television series which runs for 26 episodes educational programs. will employ crews, stars, and the rest of the The market for films and television series cast for 12 months. If one makes a film, those is enormous. We have Australian cinema same people are employed for only a few releases and then releases on the world months. So television series and market—the USA and Europe. Blood Oath, documentaries are very good cash flow items. which is a film that was produced in Australia I really want to see Queensland develop as a about the Japanese atrocities during the war, production base for films and television. had moderate success in Australia, but it was Presently, it is second behind New South a top-rating movie in Japan. Young Japanese Wales. However, Queensland still does not people wanted to see what had happened have a base. during that time. One never knows when a The Pacific Film and Television movie’s popularity will take off. I would like to Commission, which is part of the Queensland impress upon the Minister the willingness to Government Film Unit, has been involved in take risk. Many film investors want to know the production of Time Trax. However, when what the returns are going to be. Trends tend the stars leave Australia—get on that plane to follow other trends. If we want to make our and go—that is the end of that show. The mark on the world, we have to be a little bit makers of the film chose to make it in different. We have to back our creative Australia because of this country’s cheap people. production costs. However, the makers are I will give an example of a film that, at disadvantaged because they have to fly in first, did not take off—Teenage Mutant Ninja their stars and backup experts. They used our Turtles. We know that it sparked a great craze film farm at Beenleigh to great advantage. I throughout the world, but it could not get off encourage that to happen but eventually we the ground in America at all. It was turned want a Queensland-based industry. down by all the major networks in that country. We have stars who live in southern However, the popularity of that movie took off States. Virtually none of them live in throughout the world. We have to support Queensland. They fly to this State, take part in such innovative ideas. Now and again, we the shows and return home. That adds to the have to have a crack at something. Lightning cost of production because the makers of the Jack has a budget of over $30m which its film have to put up these people. We want producers wanted to raise on the stock these people to become residents of market. That movie is in the big league. The Queensland. I believe that Queensland has a funding for movies of that type should be left great opportunity to become the No. 1 film to the stock market and the speculators. I centre in Australia. hope that they make a packet out of it. Of I wish to draw the Minister’s attention— course, we know that only about two out of and I believe that we have to take this on every ten such films make good money; the board—to the discrimination against the majority of them do not make money. We production of children’s educational programs. really need to encourage Queensland to be That is a major market. I do not know how this the leader in movie production in Australia. I discrimination has occurred, but I am told that believe that we have a niche in the world it is historical. If Queensland could provide because we have creative people. producers and encourage producers to put As to the distribution of movies—Europe finance into those productions, Queensland is now called a European pudding, because of could lead the way in the production of the mixing of cultures. Consequently, what will children’s educational programs. Currently, sell in Spain might not sell in England or children’s educational programs are not Germany. A movie has to be a fluke to financed at all by the Australian Film Finance capture the whole European market. Unless Commission or by Film Queensland. It would we can make movies in which people speak be great if Queensland producers could lead with American accents, Americans will not the way in providing producers with profitable accept them. They accepted Crocodile and worthwhile programs which they cannot Dundee, but they did not understand half of it. obtain elsewhere. The risk involved is However, that film was a great example of negligible, and the benefits to this State in how the popularity of a movie can take off and terms of employment opportunities and put Australia on the map. The follow-on prestige would be considerable. The Federal tourism benefits from that movie were great. Government is not interested in the project, Another example is The Piano, which rated 14 October 1993 5234 Legislative Assembly very well at the last Cannes Film Festival. It Queensland. I recommend that the was produced by Jane Campion, who is a honourable member’s afore quoted read the New Zealand author and producer. However, 388 pages of that report plus the appendices. she could not raise any funding for that movie Mr Beattie: They haven’t done it. in Australia. She received some funding from the New South Wales Script Development Mr DAVIES: I take the interjection. If the Fund towards the film, but received the honourable member for Indooroopilly also majority of the funding from France. The film wants to interject and tell me that he has read was set in New Zealand, and it has been a it, I am waiting for the interjection. It is not worldwide success. It is making a lot of forthcoming. That only goes to show what an money. That type of film gives an example of empty vessel he is. He has not increased his how quirky the film industry can be. reservoir of knowledge. If he has read the We really have to develop a culture in report, it has been a waste of time because it Queensland in which investors are willing to has not sunk in. If the honourable member have a go and make astute investments. We has read the report, will he interject and tell have the seeding grants to encourage script me? He is not interjecting, so he obviously has development, but we must realise that only not read it. The honourable member then about two out of ten of those will take off. The should read it for the first time, and then he annual report of the South Australian Film may understand what the Fitzgerald report is Corporation—and that has been going for all about. some time—outlines some of the films that it The establishment of the Parliamentary has developed over the years, such as Criminal Justice Committee is a result of the Sunday Too Far Away, Storm Boy, Breaker commission of inquiry conducted by Tony Morant and The Shiralee. It is receiving a Fitzgerald, QC, who is now President of the decent return on those films because those Court of Appeal. The Parliamentary Criminal films are being licensed to the Seven Network. Justice Committee is a seven member all- It is also selling those movies in France. Storm party committee of the Queensland Boy has made its theatrical release in France Parliament appointed to monitor and review 15 years after it was produced. That indicates the discharge of the functions of the Criminal the ongoing returns that movies can give. Justice Commission. The Parliamentary Storm Boy is a delightful film. I saw it with my Criminal Justice Committee and the Criminal children a number of years ago. Justice Commission were established under Time expired. the provisions of the Criminal Justice Act 1989, which was assented to in October Mr DAVIES (Mundingburra) (4.01 p.m.): 1989—— Honourable members will recall that, today, the member for Indooroopilly made comment Mr Beanland: I rise to a point of order. on matters to which he referred in a previous The member for Mundingburra seems to be speech. Those matters included, amongst asking questions of me. Mr Chairman, with other things: the Mack complaint; the your approval, I am very happy to answer interdepartmental working group; the cannabis those questions. I certainly have read the discussions paper; the report on section 3.1 of Criminal Justice Commission—— the Criminal Justice Act 1989 and, in The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is no point particular, the comment that the Courier-Mail of order. was raided by the CJC; frivolous and vexatious complaints; and the Joint Organised Crime Mr DAVIES: The commission and the Task Force—JOCTF. I shall turn to each of committee were established following the these topics in the course of my speech to this recommendations of Tony Fitzgerald, QC, in Committee and place on record the true his report. position. Before doing that, however, I have to Part IV of the Act relates to the PCJC, say that I am not only amazed, but dismayed, and section 4.8 sets out the functions and that the honourable member for Indooroopilly powers of the Committee. One of the and the member for Burnett, who supported functions of the committee, as set out in those comments, show between them such a subsection 1 (a), is— dearth of knowledge in relation to one of the two children of Fitzgerald: the Criminal Justice “to monitor and review the discharge of Commission. the functions of the Commission . . .” The Fitzgerald report recommended the The term “monitor and review” is not defined in establishment of the CJC to overcome the the Act, so the committee—that is, the first malaise in public administration in committee as well as ourselves—has had to develop a system which it considers will Legislative Assembly 5235 14 October 1993 enable an effective monitoring and reviewing Amendments to the Act, and therefore of the CJC. This system includes— the role and function of the CJC, affects the holding regular monthly meetings, which Government as a whole—not just the Police are held in camera—private hearings— Department. It can, for example, affect other and which are attended only by the departments, such as Family Services, committee, committee staff, the CJC Environment and Heritage, Justice and chairman and commissioners, and Attorney-General, and Treasury. Indeed, any directors of the commission upon express department can be affected. It is therefore invitation by the committee; imperative that the various departments—units of public receiving complaints against the CJC; administration—be able to have input into the conducting audits of various sections and proposed recommendations for amendment divisions of the CJC; of the Criminal Justice Act 1989. The conducting inquiries into action of the appropriate vehicle for this process is the CJC; interdepartmental committee under the umbrella of the Office of the Cabinet. As a conducting periodic hearings to apprise whole-of-Government department, I would be the public of the operations of the CJC; very surprised—in fact, dismayed and to report to Parliament on any matters disappointed—if it was not involved. It must relating to the commission, the discharge be. I would be dismayed if such a committee of its functions or exercise of its powers; was not given the opportunity of reviewing the to examine all CJC reports and report to proposed amendments. Ultimately, any Parliament on any matters arising therein; amendments to the Criminal Justice Act 1989 and will be debated and decided in this House—that is, the Parliament—and that is in to conduct a review of the activities of the the spirit of the Fitzgerald recommendations. commission every three years and report to Parliament on any action to be taken I refer to the cannabis report. At page in relation to the Act or the CJC. 377, Fitzgerald, QC, said— Section 4.8 (2) of the Act gives the “This Commission recommends that committee such powers as are necessary to the Criminal Justice Commission, as an enable or assist the committee in the proper essential part of its immediate functions, discharge of its functions and such powers as undertake investigation, review, reform, are conferred on it by Parliament. The Forty- and consideration of criminal justice seventh Parliament conferred on the matters arising from this report, committee the power to send for persons and including . . . papers. (2) general review of the criminal law, I turn now to the complaint of Mack. The including laws relating to voluntary committee can and does receive complaints sexual or sex related behaviour, SP from persons who feel aggrieved by the bookmaking, illegal gambling, and activities of the commission. The Mack illicit drugs, to determine: complaint is presently before the committee (a) the extent and nature of the and it is therefore inappropriate to discuss that involvement of organised crime matter here. Indeed, it is a matter for the in these activities committee and the complainant. I can assure (b) the type, availability and costs of the honourable member for Indooroopilly that law enforcement resources we will not—I repeat “not”— apprise him of the which would be necessary outcome. To do so would be an abuse of effectively to police criminal laws process. against such activities I turn now to the interdepartmental (c) the extent (if at all) to which any working group. The structure is that the CJC presently criminal activities proposes amendments to the Criminal Justice should be legalised or de- Act 1989 or its functions that are anomalous criminalized.” or deficient. Those proposals are then forwarded to the committee. The committee In the light of Fitzgerald’s recommendations, it then makes recommendations and reports to is difficult to understand the honourable the Parliament. This, however, is not the end member’s position on the proposed cannabis of the matter. Those recommendations have report which is being prepared by an illicit to be considered by the Government of the drugs advisory committee to the CJC—not the day. CJC itself at this stage. That stage may well 14 October 1993 5236 Legislative Assembly come later. It is not appropriate for the Mundingburra for the contributions which they Government or the PCJC to direct the CJC to have made. Last but not least, I would also abandon that report. It would indeed be most like to thank the honourable and learned inappropriate for the PCJC or the Government member for Everton for the contribution that to interfere with the commission’s immediate he has made. The honourable members who duties outlined by Fitzgerald, QC. In addition, spoke are people who have contributed to the it is wrong to suggest that the Honourable the policy development process proactively. They Premier has prejudged the issue. are people on whose advice I very frequently I refer the honourable member to the rely, and I am very grateful to them, not only Premier’s letter dated 21 July 1993 to the for the contributions which they have made in Chairman of the CJC, which states— this debate but also for the contributions which they have led and which have manifested in “Thank you for the copy of the action for the benefit of the people of this Discussion Paper ‘Cannabis and the Law State. in Queensland’, recently released by the CJC Advisory Committee on Illicit Drugs I refer to some of the remarks that were which was sent to my office. I have noted made by coalition members. I begin with the with interest some of the research remarks made by the honourable member for findings in the paper. Indooroopilly. Despite some media portrayal of my Mr Beattie: Do you have to? position on this issue, I consider that Mr WELLS: One must start somewhere. research such as that undertaken by the Mr J. N. Goss: Start with the best. Advisory Committee is obviously worthwhile. The Queensland Government Mr WELLS: I note the remark of the will not ignore such research or any honourable member for Aspley. I am sure that recommendations made by the CJC and, he will go far in the Liberal Party. There was a ultimately, the Parliamentary Committee. recurring theme from coalition members concerning cattleduffers. I look forward to further progress on what is and will remain to be a significant Mrs Woodgate: It takes one to know social problem.” one. I turn to the PCJC report on section 3.1 of Mr WELLS: I thank the honourable the Criminal Justice Act 1989. In response to member for Kurwongbah. Neither the the suggestion of the honourable member honourable member for Indooroopilly nor the that the Courier-Mail was “raided” by the CJC, I honourable member for Burnett could name a will simply refer him to the PCJC report, which particular case. They expressed a generalised is an all-party report of the committee and concern about the issue of cattleduffing, which which was endorsed by all members. I further can attract serious criminal penalties. In advise the honourable member to read it and circumstances in which the courts choose not inform himself of all the issues involved before to hand down a severe penalty, it may very making comment which is merely designed to well be that there are particular reasons for obtain media gratification. Even a superficial that. I acknowledge the concerns of the examination of the PCJC report would reveal honourable member for Indooroopilly and the that there was no raid on the Courier-Mail. honourable member for Burnett, in that it is There were comments made in relation to the very difficult to get a conviction in a Joint Organised Crime Task Force. I seek cattleduffing case, because the jury can very approval to table two letters. One is from frequently be found to be less than former Commissioner Noel Newnham; the unanimous on the subject. If one is looking for other is from the CJC. The letters are dated 2 cases in which juries are less than unanimous, August 1993 and 27 September 1993 cattleduffing is a very good place to start. respectively. When a conviction is achieved, it is important that the sentence should be appropriate. Time expired. The case about which coalition members Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba— Minister have written to me recently, of which they for Justice and Attorney-General and Minister could not remember the name, was a case to for the Arts) (4.09 p.m.), in reply: I thank which I will refer as “the Queen v. P”. I say “P” honourable members on this side of the because that is the first letter of the name of House who contributed to this debate. In the person concerned, but I will not publicise particular, I would like to thank the honourable his name any further. In that case, the members for Mount Ommaney, Cleveland, leniency of the sentencing judge was Caboolture, Brisbane Central and occasioned by virtue of a psychiatrist’s report Legislative Assembly 5237 14 October 1993 to the effect that the person who had Mr WELLS: I would like to hear what the engaged in the conduct that was the subject honourable member for Southport has to say. of the consideration of the court was therefore He has not taken the opportunity to contribute diminished. It was an exercise of clemency. to this debate to date, so I would be very That person was suffering from a psychiatric interested to hear his remarks now. condition, occasioned in part by the drought. Mr Veivers: I’m just saying: do you The very drought which honourable members remember everybody who is in your diary opposite are anxious to remind us has every day? occasioned severe stress to many of their constituents was the cause of that person’s Mr WELLS: No. problems. Up until that stage, that person had Mr Veivers: This is your half-smart led a blameless life as far as the criminal law attitude. was concerned. That was the reason for the sentence in that case. Honourable members Mr WELLS: But then again, I do not opposite have not drawn any other cases to come into the Parliament of Queensland and my attention. talk about it unless I know what I am talking about. Mr Littleproud: I wrote to you about two months ago asking you to review a case. Mr T. B. Sullivan: They are expecting you to remember the name on every bit of Mr WELLS: That was the case about correspondence that you get as Minister, which the honourable member wrote to me. when they can’t remember one name! The honourable member does not even recall—— The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Committee Mr Littleproud: You haven’t even will come to order—complete and absolute answered my letter. order. Mr WELLS: I do not know whether the Mr WELLS: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I honourable member’s letter has not reached do note that the standard of debate has him yet. From my recollection, what the diminished considerably since honourable honourable member wrote to me about was members who were not in the Chamber a little that very case and those facts of which I was while ago came in to make an uninformed speaking. The honourable member for contribution to it. Western Downs, the honourable member for I turn to what the honourable member for Indooroopilly, the honourable member for Indooroopilly said about the so-called crisis in Crows Nest and various others wrote to me the legal system. Honourable members know about that case. very well that there is no crisis in the legal Mr Littleproud: This is a different case system. That is rhetoric that the honourable altogether. member is touting about the State because he can get on radio if he uses that sort of Mr WELLS: What was the name of it? inflammatory language. There is no crisis in Mr Littleproud: It was about a bloke who the legal system. Since the parties of was substituting and taking meat from honourable members opposite were in power, meatworks. funding for the Office of the Director of Mr WELLS: What was the name of the Prosecutions has doubled. It has gone up to case? over $10m. Mr Littleproud: I can’t remember now. It Mr Beanland interjected. is months ago that I wrote to you. Mr WELLS: I am anxious not to exclude Mr WELLS: I do not want to spend very the Committee from any of the pearls of much more time on this matter. Honourable wisdom that drop like precious stones from the members opposite keep referring to cases, lips of the honourable member. Would he but they can never remember the names of please like to tell us what he is saying? them. When they can remember the names, Mr Beanland: You don’t have a reply we can talk about it. I refer to the further prepared, I can see. You’re wanting us to help remarks of the honourable member for you out with your reply. Indooroopilly about the crisis—— Mr WELLS: No, no. If that is the standard Mr Veivers: I write to you every day. You of interjection that we are going to get, I will expect me to remember it, do you? You not take any more from the honourable wouldn’t! member. 14 October 1993 5238 Legislative Assembly

We have doubled the amount of funding better than any other State. The Legal Aid for the Office of the Director of Prosecutions. Commission, led by Stephen Keim, has The funding for Legal Aid has increased by 37 weathered the recession much more per cent just in the last year. That has effectively than has any other Legal Aid increased the funding for Legal Aid from the Commission in Australia. consolidated revenue of the State With respect to the judiciary—the waiting Government to $10m. That is a very lists are going down and the number of judges considerable input. That does not include the is going up. We now have a record number of amount by which I persuaded the banks to judges in this State—more than we have ever increase—— had before. The waiting lists are going down. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Minister for By comparison with other States, Queensland Corrective Services will not use the telephone is miles ahead of the game. in the Chamber. I turn to some of the remarks made by Mr WELLS: That does not include the the honourable member for Burleigh. The amount by which I persuaded the banks to honourable member talked about the role of increase the interest on solicitors’ trust funds women in the criminal justice system. As the which is payable to Legal Aid, nor does it honourable member for Clayfield and the include the $4m that was made available by honourable member for Chermside pointed the Public Trustee on my instructions for out, we now have eight women on the personal injury cases in the Legal Aid area. Benches of our courts in this State. Two Obviously, in the middle of a recession, a Supreme Court judges, two District Court great deal of pressure will be put on the Legal judges and four magistrates are women, two Aid Commission. However, that pressure has of whom were appointed during the tenure of been dealt with more effectively in Glen Milliner as Minister for Justice. That Queensland than it has in any other State. I indicates very clearly that the Government is mention this not because I expect honourable anxious to ensure that that half of the members opposite to understand it but population is appropriately represented on the because I would like to have it on the record. Benches of our criminal justice and civil justice A little while ago, I went to the Standing system. Committee of Attorneys-General. The Mr Foley: The first Industrial Relations standing committee was considering what it Commissioner who was a woman was would do about a recent ruling of the High appointed under our Government, too. Court to the effect that people charged with Mr WELLS: The Honourable the Minister serious criminal offences had to be for Employment, Training and Industrial represented by counsel or the court would not Relations points out that the first female hear the case. In considering what to do Industrial Relations Commissioner was also about that case, most of the Attorneys were appointed under our Government. I suggest considering legislation. When it came to to the honourable member for Burleigh that Queensland, I was the only Attorney who was she tell her female constituents that her able to say unequivocally that it would not be advocacy on this subject is a great deal more necessary for us to have legislation to deal effective under this Government than it was with that case because always Queensland when she sat on the back bench of the had funded severe cases of that kind. National Party Government. Prescribed crime has always been funded in Queensland by the Legal Aid Commission. The member for Burleigh referred to the need for training for judges in matters that I am not saying that everything in the involve delicate issues of the type to which garden is rosy with respect to legal assistance she referred. I am pleased to advise the to the people of this State, because it can honourable member and the Committee that never be. Even in the good times, it can never Mr Justice Moynihan recently went on a study be. Always, there must be a cut-off line tour to Canada to undertake an examination somewhere. Always, there will be some of those matters. We have made $40,000 people who, by virtue of their inadequate available to the judiciary to undertake means, will be entitled to Legal Aid and continuing legal education in respect of the people with just a few more dollars than that sorts of matters to which the honourable by way of income or assets who will not be member referred. I should also mention to the entitled to it. Always, there must be a cut-off member for Burleigh that, with respect to point. We will never be able to satisfy stalking laws, not very long ago I announced everyone unless we provide free Legal Aid to that the Government would bring those laws everyone. In Queensland, we are doing it forward ahead of the rest of the Criminal Code Legislative Assembly 5239 14 October 1993 review. The member can confidently expect to portfolio. As a matter of fact, she made be considering that legislation in this exactly the same speech as she made last Parliament in the near future. year. The only difference was that the names I turn now to the Arts side of the portfolio. were changed to confuse the innocent. I thank the honourable member for Lockyer Mrs Sheldon: I think that sort of for his contribution to the debate. He would be comment is beneath you. interested to know that it was not only in the Mr WELLS: I will take that as a film Rough Diamond that filming was compliment. I thought that it was a bit undertaken in National Party electorates. It beneath the honourable member to describe was not only in Boonah—— me as being the “short-sighted Minister”. I Mr FitzGerald: Authentic looking, real life might be short-sighted, but I do read the small places. print, and I did read her speech of last year. Mr WELLS: It was incredibly authentic. Mrs Sheldon: You did? The honourable member has one of the most Mr WELLS: Yes. photogenic and telegenic electorates in the country. I am reminded of the remarks of John Mrs Sheldon: You show me the similarity Wesley, who said, “Why should the devil have with my speech last year. You said it’s the all the good tunes?” I do not know why same. What are the similarities? National Party members have so much of the Mr WELLS: The similarities? The call for good scenery in their electorates, but they do the abolition of peer group assessment, for have a fair amount of it. If the honourable example, was one of the similarities. member cares to view the film Jailbirds Run, Mrs Sheldon: I didn’t say that last year. he will note that some pretty authentic scenes from Dalby are featured. Mr WELLS: The honourable member did attack peer assessment last year. In fact, that Mr Littleproud: Fair dinkum? has been the theme of her whole crusade. Mr WELLS: Fair dinkum. That film also This time, she said that I have abrogated contains scenes shot in Mount Isa, which at ministerial responsibility because the grants least is a Labor Party electorate. The film which are made under this Government in the industry in Queensland is very bipartisan. I area of the arts are made on the basis of an thank the honourable member for his advisory panel of peers. The honourable contribution. I will write to him, because I member is calling for a return to the dark days found his remarks extremely constructive. I where deals were made behind closed doors; thank him for his support for the film industry. when Ministers had slush funds; when they As the honourable member said, it is a very went around the country patting people on the important part of enabling our children and our back, provided that those people were grandchildren to remain authentically prepared to pat the Ministers on the back at Australian that we have an indigenous film the appropriate time. Those decisions were industry; one that does not rely on constant made by people who had no expertise and imports from north America. who had nothing but vested interests to inform I turn to the remarks by the Deputy them. That is the alternative to peer Leader of the Coalition, the honourable assessment. That is the alternative that the member for Caloundra. It was an extremely honourable member for Caloundra is balanced speech; there was an approximately suggesting we should adopt. equal number of compliments and insults. The Mrs Sheldon: Are you going to answer honourable member made a speech with my questions? very—— Mr WELLS: I apologise to the Mrs Sheldon: Always fair. Committee; I pause again to take an Mr WELLS: Yes, the honourable interjection from the honourable member. member is always—— Mrs Sheldon: Are you going to answer Mr Foley: And every fair from fair my questions that I asked you? They were sometime declines. very important questions. Mr WELLS: I thank the Honourable the Mr WELLS: The honourable member did Minister for Employment, Training and ask nine questions, and I have three minutes Industrial Relations for that interjection. The remaining in my speech—— honourable member for Caloundra made the Mrs Sheldon interjected. same sort of speech as she made last year Mr WELLS: I appreciate that. She will during the Estimates debate on the Arts have all those questions answered. However, 14 October 1993 5240 Legislative Assembly it would take the remainder of my speech and otherwise. The performing arts received then another 15 minutes to answer those $5.5m. That is hardly a minor sum out of total questions, because they are very detailed. funding of $9.2m. I commend the Estimates Mrs Sheldon: They were important. to the Committee. Mr WELLS: They are important Time expired. questions, and I will give the honourable Progress reported. member important answers. She will find the answers even more important than her questions. VOCATIONAL EDUCATION, TRAINING AND EMPLOYMENT AMENDMENT BILL Mrs Sheldon interjected. Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister for Mr WELLS: I do not wish to show the Employment, Training and Industrial honourable lady any discourtesy, but I would Relations) (4.30 p.m.), by leave, without like to continue to complete the remarks that I notice: I move— am undertaking at the moment. The honourable lady to whom I will show no “That leave be granted to bring in a discourtesy has shown discourtesy to Bill for an Act to amend the Vocational Government members. She said not only that Education, Training and Employment Act I was short-sighted but also that the Premier 1991.” did not have any culture. The Premier was the Motion agreed to. Minister who introduced the Asia-Pacific Triennial of Art, the Brisbane Biennial of Music, the Regional Arts Development Fund First Reading and the Brisbane Film Festival. Those are Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and spectacular achievements that put to shame Bill, on motion of Mr Foley, read a first time. the achievements of any of his predecessors. I would say that the honourable lady’s remarks about the Premier underestimate his Second Reading achievements just as much as her suggestion Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister for that I am myopic underestimates the fact that Employment, Training and Industrial I have 20/20 vision. Relations) (4.31 p.m.): I move— The honourable lady was also opposed “That the Bill be now read a second to funding to individuals. time.” Mrs Sheldon: I’m not opposed. I just The legislation now before the House has wanted some detail on that. three main purposes— Mr WELLS: The honourable member to provide for the expansion of the sought some details. Funding to individuals vocational education and training system was approximately $810,000 in 1993, which in this State by establishing Queensland’s represented 9 per cent of the total program. links with the newly formed Australian This has enabled Queensland artists to National Training Authority; achieve great recognition nationally and to ensure that the skills of Queensland internationally. The honourable member’s workers meet national standards and will criticisms of funding to the ACTU Art and be recognised in other States; and finally, Working Life Program was a criticism of a long-running program that is very frequently to enable the implementation of changes the only effective vehicle for highlighting the recommended for the apprenticeship and role of men—and, most notably, traineeship system which will allow those women—whose labour, sweat and sacrifice systems to provide a flexible, responsive throughout the generations have made service to the Queensland community. possible the lifestyle enjoyed by the people The Queensland Government has over whom the honourable lady represents. This the past few years demonstrated its Government is committed to peer determination to ensure that Queenslanders assessment. We are committed to supporting will have the skills and the knowledge to meet individuals in the arts, and we are committed the needs of our industry, at home and in the to supporting such programs as the one to global marketplace, well into the next century. which I just referred. The nature of work is changing, and new skills The performing arts received 60 per cent are therefore needed to cope with today’s and of the total arts grant, despite the honourable tomorrow’s reformed work environment. In the member’s suggestion that the figure was not too distant future, the competitive edge Legislative Assembly 5241 14 October 1993 will be held by those who can develop a cost- additional functions, provided for in this Bill, will effective system for educating and training include— people to be productive workers in a providing ANTA with policy advice and technology and information driven economy. information on training needs of This legislation is a major step in this direction. Queensland industry and the resources It is a major micro-economic reform. needed to meet them; In July 1992, Commonwealth, State and developing, with the national authority, a Territory Governments agreed to establish a State training profile which outlines the national vocational education and training way growth funds will be used; system, centred on a Council of Ministers and ensuring that the planning, regulation the Australian National Training Authority. and provision of public and private ANTA has been headquartered here in training in Queensland is in accordance Brisbane and is scheduled to become fully with national directions agreed by operational in January 1994. The authority, Ministers; and with a five-member board—all industry representatives—and an annual budget in reporting to ANTA on the performance of excess of $700m is the means by which funds the training system to promote better for the expansion of Australia’s training effort accountability to Ministers. will be channelled to States. One of the most significant advances in This Bill will give effect to the new national vocational education and training in this nation system, as agreed, and is complementary to over the past decade has been the National the Commonwealth’s legislation. The Framework for the Recognition of Training proposed amendments will formally define the Agreement. Queensland joined all other State relationship between ANTA and the State Governments and the Commonwealth training agency, the Vocational Education, Government in signing this agreement in July Training and Employment Commission— 1992. The creation of the framework, effective VETEC. The importance of a national training from August last year, requires changes to authority cannot be overemphasised. those parts of the Act relating to accreditation. Once fully operational, the framework will ANTA will promote— mean that, wherever or however students and a national vocational education and workers gain new skills, they will be able to training system to underpin Australia’s have them recognised. Mutual recognition of international competitiveness; skills between States will make skills portable, greatly benefiting both individuals and close interaction between industry and employers. vocational education and training providers to ensure industry needs are Access to accreditation for training met; providers and industry will be simplified. A course that is accredited in one State will an effective training market in which automatically be recognised in all other competition for funds between providers States. This is designed to ensure, for will reduce costs and give a better service example, that a carpenter trained in Brisbane to clients; will have his or her training recognised in improvements in TAFE colleges to help Bathurst or Broome, Devonport or Darwin, them to achieve best practice and quality thus enhancing labour market flexibility. outcomes; The opportunity is also being taken to a fair go for community groups and provide further consumer protection within the individuals who need access to vocational vocational education and training system. education and training to improve their Where training providers, both public and life chances; and private, offer a non-accredited diploma course, they will be required as a result of these improved links between vocational amendments to use a disclaimer to that effect education and training and schools and when advertising such courses. higher education to assist students to Late last year, this Government move more easily from school to work contracted Mr Brian Tregillis, a former senior and further study. Commonwealth public servant and national Clearly, the role of Queensland's training CES director, to undertake a review of the agency, VETEC, in furthering ANTA’s administration of the apprenticeship and objectives nationally and, more specifically, traineeship systems. More than 25 000 young within the State will be substantial. VETEC’s people in Queensland are employed as 14 October 1993 5242 Legislative Assembly apprentices and trainees. Growing levels of which will emphasise an employer’s complaints from employers, guardians and the responsibility to train. young people themselves indicated the need An extension of the flexibility of training for urgent attention and reform. periods particularly for traineeships. This The Tregillis review found that those will take into account new training complaints were more than justified. The systems, such as the Australian administrative system that those people had Vocational Certificate, which are still in to endure would have done Kafka proud. The their infancy. system was characterised by incompatible computer systems which ran in tandem with And the updating of the language used voluminous paper files, a plethora of forms to make it relevant in a contemporary and a legislative approach based on environment and to bring it in line with inspections and monitoring. that used nationally. The inconveniences created by a system Considered individually, these proposed immured in red tape are one thing; the changes may seem inconsequential—the true consequences are quite another. Probably the value of these proposals is seen in the sum of most damning finding was the fact that there the parts. Overall, these amendments will were up to four-month delays in inspections have the effect of responding appropriately to that resulted in the inability of an employer to the needs of young people, their employers claim wage subsidies and delays in the and their guardians in a manner which is apprentice being allocated to a college wholly consistent with national moves. course. In some cases, this had the effect of Concurrently, these changes will ensure that slowing the apprentice’s progress by a full we have the flexibility to respond to the new year. training systems being demanded by industry. Clearly, a major overhaul was in order. Each of us accepts the responsibility to Some of the recommendations are being make every effort to ensure that this State will implemented internally, and this certainly have the skilled work force necessary to meet includes close scrutiny of the bureaucracy future needs. These proposals will result in an charged with administering these systems. But apprenticeship and traineeship system which other recommendations require legislative in every sense works. authority. People may have been the forgotten The proposed amendments will allow us component of competitiveness—until now— to slash the red tape that threatens to strangle but this Government recognises that the apprenticeship and traineeship systems in productivity, technology and growth depend this State. Furthermore, these amendments on a skilled, motivated and flexible work force. will provide the flexibility needed for This legislation will help us achieve that. Queensland to pursue the national training I commend the Bill to the House. reform agenda. This State is taking a leading role in the development of new training Debate, on motion of Mr Santoro, systems and these efforts must not be adjourned. jeopardised by legislative constraints imposed by a previous era. The amendments will streamline BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY employer, apprentice and trainee (PORTABLE LONG SERVICE LEAVE) responsibilities—responsibilities that are so AMENDMENT BILL onerous that they are largely ignored. The Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister for major changes proposed are— Employment, Training and Industrial A single application form to replace the Relations) (4.41 p.m.), by leave, without four presently required to register an notice: I move— apprentice or trainee. This will cut red “That leave be granted to bring in a tape and modernise the administration of Bill for an Act to amend the Building and the system by providing for one training Construction Industry (Portable Long agreement and one set of requirements Service Leave) Act 1991.” covering both apprentices and trainees. Motion agreed to. A system of self-assessment, rather than departmental assessment, of training First Reading facilities with an audit safeguard provision Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and Bill, on motion of Mr Foley, read a first time. Legislative Assembly 5243 14 October 1993

issues concerning the effectiveness of the levy Second Reading and the portable long service leave scheme. Investigations revealed that in order to reduce Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister for the cost of the long service leave levy to the Employment, Training and Industrial industry, improve the ongoing viability of the Relations) (4.42 p.m.): I move— scheme and remove the apparent inequities “That the Bill be now read a second in the scheme’s design, the Building and time.” Construction Industry (Portable Long Service The rationale behind the Building and Leave) Act 1991 needed to be amended. Construction Industry (Portable Long Service The objective of this Bill is to amend the Leave) legislation is to provide for portability of Building and Construction Industry (Portable long service leave for employees, apprentices Long Service Leave) Act 1991 to enhance the and trainees in the Queensland building and ongoing viability and equity of the portable construction industry. Because building and long service leave scheme. The Building and construction workers move from site to site, it Construction Industry (Portable Long Service was often the case in the past that they were Leave) Act 1991 prescribes that building and denied the basic entitlements to long service construction work is not to commence until the leave that were available to other workers long service leave levy has been paid. The under the Industrial Relations Act 1990. This is levy is paid at the same time as the fee is paid why a tripartite working party of employers, for notifiable projects to the Division of employees and Government officials was set Workplace Health and Safety in my up, leading to the establishment of the department. This means that both payments Building and Construction Industry (Portable are made at the same time and this simplifies Long Service Leave) Board to provide the the principal contractor’s administrative task. industry work force in Queensland with a However, under the notifiable project benefit that had been available elsewhere in system, the problem facing the board is that Australia for many years. Previous coalition not all leviable projects are notifiable. The and National Party Governments made many scope of leviable projects under the Building promises and gave many undertakings and Construction Industry (Portable Long between 1974 and 1989 but failed to deliver Service Leave) Act 1991 is much broader than such a scheme. that constituted as a notifiable project under When this Government came to power, the Division of Workplace Health and Safety one of its first initiatives was to establish the legislation. Hence, the board is not capturing tripartite working party to report on the most all its income from this source. appropriate processes for the implementation All the available evidence, including the of a portable long service leave scheme for New South Wales experience, suggests that the building and construction industry in as the vast majority of building projects require Queensland. The working party submitted a approval of building plans by local authorities report in February 1991. The before work commences, a higher level of recommendations contained in the report compliance can be achieved by imposing a were generally accepted by the Government statutory requirement on local authorities not and formed the basis for the legislation. to accept building applications until evidence The scheme recognises an employee’s of payment of the board’s long service leave service to the industry, rather than to a single levy has been produced. Provision is made to employer. The scheme is financed by a 0.5 ensure that a local authority will accept an per cent levy imposed on the total cost of application for building approval only if the carrying out building and construction work in local authority has sighted an approved board Queensland where the cost is $40,000 or form for payment of the levy, or exemption more. The levy percentage was based on from payment of the levy. The regulation will actuarial advice to ensure the scheme had a prescribe a fee of $1.70 per levy form sighted sound basis to meet future liabilities, and a to be paid to local authorities by the board. $40,000 threshold was chosen as the This does not require local authorities to minimum level in recognition of the economics collect the levy, but simply to sight a form for of collecting small amounts of levy. payment of the levy or exemption from At the time the scheme was established, payment of the levy. The board will still utilise it was proposed that a scheduled review be an agent to collect its levies on a fee-for- undertaken after 12 months of operation. service basis. Discussions concerning an After nine months of operation, the board agency arrangement are being finalised with undertook the review and looked at a range of Australia Post. 14 October 1993 5244 Legislative Assembly

The levy rate, which is prescribed by the value of their own labour is greater than 10 regulation, is currently 0.5 per cent, and it was per cent of the cost of the work, then they will expected that this initial rate would reduce not have to pay the levy on that higher value. over time to 0.3 per cent. This has been the Provision is made for a Government pattern in the New South Wales scheme entity to pay the levy due on Government- where the levy rate reduced from 0.6 per cent funded work directly to the board in arrears. in 1986 to 0.1 per cent in 1993 and has now These organisations will also be required to been suspended until December 1994. The notify the board of project details within three board’s actuary has indicated that, with months of the start date of the work, with the increased compliance, the levy rate can be levy having to be paid prior to a date decided reduced by 20 per cent to 0.4 per cent of the by the board. This will further improve cost of the work from 1 January 1994. efficiency in collection of the levy and will In placing a statutory requirement on assist in increasing compliance. local authorities not to accept a building application until they have sighted the Provision is also made for minor and approved board form, responsibility for consequential amendments which bring the payment of the levy will lie with the person legislation up to date and correct outdated who makes the application. If no such references as a result of the operation of the application is required, then the person for Acts Interpretation Act 1954, the Penalties whom the work is to be done will be and Sentences Act 1992 and the Statutory responsible for payment of the levy. Provision Instruments Act 1992. is made for the levy to be paid before an I should like to place on record my application tor building approval is made to a appreciation for the valuable assistance given local authority. If no application is required, the by the Local Government Association under levy must be paid before the work starts, or at the leadership of its President, Mr Jim Pennell, a later time determined by the board. during the consultation process in framing the Building and construction work carried out amendments to the scheme. A substantial by individuals or employees of an organisation awareness campaign will be carried out to whose main activities are not in the building inform the industry of the new levy and construction industry attracts the levy; for requirements. The measures being put in example, the sugar milling industry, the mining place will provide for a more efficient and industry, the rural industry and others. The effective scheme and will facilitate a reduction only exemption available to these industries in the cost of the long service leave levy under the Act is in relation to the performance quickly over time. The proposals merit the of maintenance or repairs that are of a routine support of all members. I commend the Bill to or minor nature by persons for an employer the House. who is not substantially engaged in the Debate, on motion of Mr Santoro, building and construction industry. adjourned. Conscious of this inequity in the scheme’s design, provision is made to exempt the value of building and construction work (labour and LANDS LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL materials) carried out for persons who are not Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister substantially engaged in the building and for Lands) (4.50 p.m.), by leave, without construction industry and who utilise their notice: I move— employees to carry out that work. Similarly, an owner/builder is liable to pay the levy on the “That leave be granted to bring in a total cost of building and construction work Bill for an Act to amend certain Acts which includes any materials used and labour administered by the Minister for Lands, provided by contractors engaged for work and for other purposes.” outside of the competence or licence of the Motion agreed to. owner/builder. Conscious of the inequity that owner/builders are levied on the value of their First Reading own labour, provision is made for the levy not Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and to be paid on the value of an owner/builder’s Bill, on motion of Mr Smith, read a first time. labour. The regulation will prescribe the amount not payable to be 10 per cent of the Second Reading cost of building and construction work. Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister However, if owner/builders can prove that the for Lands) (4.51 p.m.): I move— Legislative Assembly 5245 14 October 1993

“That the Bill be now read a second valuation is to be altered from the date of time.” the change; This Bill seeks to amend the Land Act excluding rental valuations from 1962, the Valuation of Land Act 1962 and the inspection and display in the first Special Freeholding of Leases Act 1991 to instance, as they are already notified provide for more efficient procedures. A directly to the lessees in rent notices; number of minor and consequential statute widening the scope of objection and law-type amendments and repeal of appeals against valuations for rental transitional Acts are also included. purposes to include those valuations Primarily, this Bill seeks to introduce a altered due to a change of purpose or number of amendments to assist in the lease condition; and transition to the common date of 1 July 1993 providing for the power to dismiss for all valuations for rental purposes. It appeals against valuations for rental amends the Land Act 1962 to allow the purposes if a prescribed minimum rent is following: it changes occupation and road reflected. licence periods to run from 1 July each year to A number of other miscellaneous 30 June of the subsequent year to allow the amendments to the Land Act 1962 also give valuation for rental purposes to coincide with effect to— the start of each period; it provides a mechanism for changing categories of leases updating certain tenements under the for rental purposes if the purpose or lease Mineral Resources Act 1989 to apply to conditions are changed; it provides for a the Land Act 1962; lessee to have an objection and appeal right broader delegation of my powers under to the Land Court on any decisions regarding another Act or otherwise; the allocation of a particular category for rental agreements regarding commercial timber purposes to a lease—the appeal rights extend or conservation to be transferred with a to any decisions made prior to the effective title; date of this legislation; and it introduces a phasing in over two years of annual rents for the ability to extend the terms of existing certain leases that are located in coastal and auction purchase freehold leases used closer-settled areas where land uses other for agricultural purposes, which are than grazing and agriculture have impacted suffering from hardship, without first on land values. These leases are requiring a deferral of instalments; characterised by being subject to a including all types of protected areas and concessional valuation for rating purposes and proposals under the Nature Conservation have experienced a substantial increase in Act 1992 to be considered by the Chief rent in the transition to the percentage of Executive in a decision on an application unimproved capital value from 1 July 1993. for a tree clearing permit; About 60 leases have been identified. the provision of a general reference to The proposed reductions for eligible commercial timber in tree management lessees are 50 per cent of the increase in the plan instead of the more limited reference rent from 1 July 1993 and 25 percent from 1 to prescribed trees; July 1994. It introduces a number of enabling a lessee to clear certain amendments to the Valuation of Land Act prescribed trees in routine operations if 1944 to provide for those valuations to be suitable notice is given, which may allow adapted for rental purposes by— the salvage of trees that may otherwise excluding the special provisions for rating be destroyed; valuations relative to lawful non- the provision of equity for lessees who conforming uses and subdivisional land; surrender leases by requiring rents or including a valuation for rental purposes instalments to be paid only to the date of for the whole of a lease if it includes land surrender—not annually in advance as is in more than one local authority; the case for some at the moment; allowing a change to be made in the the power to refuse without investigation valuation for rental purposes if the certain road closure applications, which purpose or condition of lease is changed; currently tie up an inordinate amount of allowing an adjustment of a valuation for departmental resources; and rental purposes if, for example, a change the matters of offences and penalties in occurs in the area of a lease—the relation to trespass on Crown land, roads 14 October 1993 5246 Legislative Assembly

or reserves also to apply to lands granted exists, and it is here for the long haul. It has in trust. This will assist in the protection of never done anything to the course which vegetation on these public lands. would degrade the facility, and it is never likely An amendment to the Special to do that. There is absolutely no need for any Freeholding of Leases Act 1991 extends the Government to install a watchdog over the sunset date—31 December 1993—for the QTC. special arrangements for conversion to Under the terms of this legislation, the freehold of certain leases in mining or former Queensland Turf Club, which is the biggest mining towns. contributor to the health of racing in this State, In summary, the Bill will provide for more will have to go cap in hand to the Minister’s efficient procedures with particular emphasis mates every time it wants to do anything of on the improved operation of the valuation substance at Eagle Farm. Under this basis for rental purposes. I commend the Bill legislation, it would not even be able to make to the House. substantial alterations to any of the facilities without first asking. It would not be able to Debate, on motion of Mr FitzGerald, seek funding from the Racing Development adjourned. Fund without first justifying itself to the trustees—people appointed by the Minister. EAGLE FARM RACECOURSE BILL The Minister is ensuring that the trust cannot include a member of the management Second Reading committee of the turf club. Debate resumed from 7 October (see It is absolutely outrageous that the p. 4871). Queensland Turf Club Committee, which is Mr VEIVERS (Southport) (4.57 p.m.): elected by the members of that club, should Before I commence my speech, because this have to seek the approval of anybody at all Bill is a racing Bill, I wish to bring to the when it comes to the best management of the attention of the House the sad death of Mr site. The committee is the expert body. The Ken Russell—a great jockey—who was killed trustees will be the Minister’s men; they are down south. I knew Ken very well indeed, and there as a reward for services to the Minister. I knew Mr Hickmott, who is a trainer on the Their principal interest is not the welfare of Gold Coast, for whom Mr Russell used to ride racing or the Queensland Turf Club and its a good horse, Foreign Interest. It was very sad legitimate racing activities. Their principal that Ken was killed. He had a very bad fall. interest is carrying out the Minister’s Ken had just come back to racing. He was in policies—and we all know that his main policy the throes of returning to the Gold Coast to is this continuing vendetta against the retire—and maybe riding in a few races Queensland Turf Club and its leading figures. there—and, as we know, tragedy struck. He I believe it is hypocritical of the Minister to will be buried at Monto tomorrow. I express my claim—as has been reported—that he wants condolences, and I am sure the condolences to avoid a conflict of interest by keeping the of all members of this House, to the Russell trust and club management separate. What family. about the conflict of interest where the The Opposition supports this legislation in Minister ensures that the boss of the Ipswich a warmer manner than does the Minister. This Turf Club winds up as the boss of the legislation has been necessitated by the Queensland Principal Club? That has Minister’s vicious and vindictive campaign definitely got to be a conflict of interest. He is against the Queensland Turf Club. The the boss of Q-Sales and Q-Promotions—or Minister claims that the changes to the trust one of the two bosses. If that is not a conflict arrangements are the result of a need for of interest I will fly to the moon without a accountability. He says that it is necessary to rocket. ensure that work carried out at Eagle Farm Now, I am not suggesting the position of Racecourse is carried out in a responsible Mr Bentley ought to be altered at the manner. That all sounds fine, but it is moment. It may turn out that he does a good absolutely meaningless. job in both roles. I have a lot of difficulty The Queensland Turf Club is the most accepting what the Minister did to procure that respected club in the racing industry. It has situation, such as the shameful treatment of run the Eagle Farm facility to very high Mr Peter Gallagher, but I am prepared to give standards since long before the Minister was Mr Bob Bentley a go. I believe the Minister born, and probably before I was born. should have extended the same courtesy to Unfortunately for the Minister, the club still the members of the Queensland Turf Club Legislative Assembly 5247 14 October 1993

Committee. They have all proven, over a great Sweeney, a former club committeeman who number of years, that they have the best failed in a re-election attempt; and Dr B. J. interests of racing in mind. The argument Duncan. about conflict of interest falls flat on its face. Things got a bit hot when the Minister The racing industry needs on the trust decided to give the new trustees their heads. people with very special qualifications, They came up with proposals which would including a deep knowledge of the racing have put them in absolute charge of the QTC industry and of the needs of Eagle Farm as a and the Eagle Farm Racecourse. That was racing venue. They need to understand the too much for most of the club members and long-term interests of racing at that venue. It is even most other people in the racing industry. not enough to be a bar-fly or a free-loader, or We all remember the letter that Bill Carter, the a mate of the Minister. This Minister came to former judge and royal commissioner, sent to office vowing to do over the Queensland Turf club members on that score. He defended the Club and its then chairman, Sir Edward Queensland Turf Club as the most democratic Williams. of race clubs. He said bylaws proposed to the Mr J. H. Sullivan: I didn’t know that. Government by the trustees would—and I quote him—”transfer effective control in all Mr VEIVERS: I do. He has turned the major matters to a non-elected few, appointed racing industry on its head in order to achieve by the Government.” that end. He has abolished the principal club system, and made Queensland the outcast Bill Carter went on in a manner I am sure and poor relation in the Australian racing the Minister does not want to hear. He said — industry by doing that. I must admit that things “. . . the intent seems to be to ensure that are happening in that direction and I hope it effective membership control is denied, will all come back together because it is a and that the management of all of the pretty terrible jigsaw. The supreme rule-making important issues in which the body in the turf industry, the Australian membership has an interest shall be Conference of Principal Clubs, has not had a exercised by the unelected Government- bar of the Minister’s control body—the appointed few. That is fundamentally Queensland Principal Club. wrong and reprehensible, and wholly The Minister has thrown away the inconsistent with proper principle. Indeed, expertise of men who had guided racing with it is so wrong that I am deeply concerned a great deal of wisdom over the years. He has and troubled that the Goss Government built a racing control structure which gives all would even contemplate it.” the real power to his own nominees. He has Important figures in the racing industry had concentrated the power in racing in the south- had enough of the Minister’s vendetta. I am eastern corner of the State. He has made glad to say that the current legislation racing the abject servant of the TAB and a represents something of a back-off from the milch-cow for the Treasury coffers. All of this extreme positions that were floating around a has been done in order to nail a club to the bit earlier—if this is the only legislative wall with its administrators. response to the grab for power by the When he had achieved his aim of doing Minister’s mates. The worst elements of that over the principal clubs, the Minister then earlier proposal do not appear here, but the turned his attention back to the Queensland trustees still gain, as far as I am concerned, Turf Club. He sacked the then trustees, who far too much power. were all men of great experience and ability. The Minister talks about this Bill Of course, they were Sir Edward Williams who recognising the QTC’s occupancy of the has been the Minister’s main target for so racecourse part of the trust land at Eagle many years; Mr Peter Gallagher who was the Farm. On his past record, the Minister is just club’s chairman-elect; and Mr Jim Clark. He as likely to unrecognise it. Remember that this sacked three men who had carried on a long Bill gives the trustees—the Minister’s and proper tradition of holding the racecourse men—the power to sell, mortgage, lease or in trust for the beneficiaries of that trust and dispose of the land at Eagle Farm. They have club—the members of the Queensland Turf to ask the Minister first. Club. Out they went and the Minister put in That must be a real comfort to the 2 000 others who he hoped would do his bidding. members of the Queensland Turf Club—and After a bit of toing-and-froing, the Minister to the many thousands of people who make wound up with Mr Wally Tutt, a vociferous their living in the racing industry in this State. supporter of the Minister in his vendetta The Minister claims that the QTC will have the against the Queensland Turf Club; Mr Brian right to use, occupy and manage the racing 14 October 1993 5248 Legislative Assembly venue land. “Management” implies the ability been achieved and that is what this legislation to make independent decisions about the is about. Although the Queensland Turf Club running of racing at that venue. Of course, this will be responsible for the operation of the Bill takes away that ability in very large venue as a racecourse and a training facility, measure. If the club cannot make decisions the trustees will be responsible for managing about structures such as horse stalls, the total asset in the long term. grandstands, or other facilities, it cannot For the record, I point out that the Eagle manage. If the club cannot control its own Farm Racecourse was established in 1863, finances, it cannot manage. This legislation when the Governor of the day granted 320 says it has to get trustees’ approval for any acres of Crown land to certain persons as decision on structures. trustees for racing purposes and for no other The legislation says the club must have purposes whatsoever. In 1875, the Brisbane the approval of the trustees to approach the Racecourse Act was passed, providing for the Racing Development Fund. If a race club transfer of the fee simple of the land to the operates on land controlled by an trustees of the Queensland Turf Club and unsympathetic body, if it operates in buildings enabling the trustees to sell or mortgage it does not control, and if an unsympathetic certain portions of it as were not required for watch-dog controls its access to significant racing purposes. Since then, approximately finance, then the club has lost a great deal of 188 acres have been sold, leaving autonomy. As I said at the outset, if the approximately 130 acres of racecourse land. Minister had not been so heavy-handed he Although the controversy between the would not have been forced into this quite new trustees of the Eagle Farm Racecourse heavy backdown. and the Queensland Turf Club has been Mr VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (5.09 p.m.): As resolved, another matter has arisen since the the Minister indicated when he introduced this appointment of the new trustees which I also Bill into the House, its purpose is to clarify the believe should be resolved. In 1925, the then roles of the trustees of Eagle Farm Hamilton Town Council called a public meeting Racecourse and the Queensland Turf Club. In of people interested in forming a committee to 1991 the Eagle Farm Racecourse Act 1955 build a bowls club in the Hamilton area. was amended to provide that the Governor in Subsequently, an area of 2 acres 32 perches Council may appoint a person to the office of of low-lying, swampy land covered with swamp trustee for the purposes of the Act and that grasses and tea-trees, which was obviously the Governor in Council may remove or surplus to the requirements of the racecourse, suspend a person appointed to the office. was leased from the Queensland Turf Club. Prior to this amendment the names of I understand that the Queensland Turf the trustees were spelled out in the Act which Club offered to sell the land to the bowls club also provided that, in the event of a vacancy for 300 guineas but, at that time, the club did in the office of trustee, the Governor in Council not have that kind of money and decided may appoint a person to fill that vacancy. The instead to lease the land from the Act also provided that if a trustee became Queensland Turf Club. Because of the incapable, in the opinion of the Governor in extremely poor condition of the land, it took Council, of performing the duties of his office two years for the green to be built and the first as such, the Governor in Council may remove bowl played. In 1975, the lease was renewed him from office and appoint another person to for a period of 20 years at an annual rent of be a trustee in his stead. $1,000 plus council rates. Prior to 1991, although the Act did not Over the years, the Hamilton Bowls Club require it, the trustees had always been has progressively expanded to the extent that, members of and nominated by the committee at present, the club has two greens and a very of the Queensland Turf Club. However, in nice clubhouse. I also point out that, for the early 1992 trustees who were considered to past 60 years, the club has allowed the scouts be independent were appointed. to use part of its land surplus to the club’s As numerous press reports show, this needs without charge. As the current lease resulted in considerable controversy between expires in 1995 and because of the the new trustees and members of the substantial investment that it has on the Queensland Turf Club committee over a leased land, the club naturally is anxious to period of some 15 months. As a result of a ensure that it has continuity of tenure of the meeting called by the Minister and chaired by land on which the club is built. the Director-General of the Department of To that end, early in 1992 representatives Tourism, Sport and Racing, a resolution has of the bowls club met with the then trustees of Legislative Assembly 5249 14 October 1993 the Queensland Turf Club and discussed the negotiations with the Queensland Turf Club purchase of the land by the bowls club. The and the trustees. bowls club subsequently submitted to the The Bill is the result of his excellent work trustees of the Queensland Turf Club an offer and the cooperation that I know he received for the purchase of the property. In July this from the committee of the Queensland Turf year, representatives of the bowls club met Club. I am not certain what role the Minister with the present trustees of the Queensland played in having his director-general mediate, Turf Club. Unfortunately, I understand that the or whether the direction came from a higher present trustees have indicated that they are authority. If the Minister did play a role, I am not prepared to sell to the Hamilton Bowls happy to congratulate him, as well. The Bill Club the land on which its club has been built represents the end of a bitter and but is looking at a more commercially based unnecessary dispute between the trustees of rental when the current lease comes up for Eagle Farm, who were appointed by the renewal in 1995. I further understand that the Minister, and the committee of the present trustees have noted that the Hamilton Queensland Turf Club, who were elected by Bowls Club has poker machines and the members of the club. apparently intend to take that into account when determining a commercially based For reasons that remain unclear, the rental. trustees, headed by solicitor Mr Wally Tutt, sought to shift much of the responsibility for I do not believe that the members of the racing at Eagle Farm from the committee to Hamilton Bowls Club or the people in the the trustees—from an elected body to an Hamilton community who support the appointed one. The dangers inherent in the Hamilton Bowls Club should be required to trustees’ action were profoundly set out by the contribute to the welfare of the Queensland Honourable William Carter, QC, a former Turf Club which, in my opinion, is quite able to Supreme Court judge, in a letter to the look after itself. Therefore, having regard to Government. It took some courage for Mr the history of the land in question, I do not Carter to write a letter that contained believe that the trustees of the Queensland devastating criticism of the Government, the Turf Club should continue to have control of it. Minister and the trustees, but it obviously had As I pointed out at the start, the land on which the desired result. the bowls club is located, along with all other racecourse land, was originally granted to the The attempted power grab by the trustees of the racing club for racing purposes trustees, which most racing people believe and for no other purposes whatsoever. had the full support of the Minister, was put on hold and Mr Williams, the director-general of I believe that the Queensland Turf Club the Minister’s department, was appointed by should be required to hand the land back to the Government to mediate. The end the Government and that the Government, result—this Bill—bears absolutely no similarity not the trustees of the Queensland Turf Club, whatsoever to the trust’s power grab. I believe should negotiate the sale of it to the Hamilton that it puts the relationship between the trust Bowls Club, giving due regard to the state of and the club, and the trust, the club and the the land when the bowls club took it over and Government on a proper footing with all of the hard work that club members have legislative backing. put in to bring the site to its present condition. That very sound result could have been Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) achieved without all of the bickering that has (5.14 p.m.): When the Minister for Racing gone on over the past 18 months or so, had presented the Eagle Farm Racecourse Bill, it the Minister and the trustees understood the was almost possible to feel sorry for him. He rights of the members of the Queensland Turf obviously had little enthusiasm for the Club in regard to the management of Eagle measure, and that is hardly surprising. The Bill Farm. It could also have been achieved had represents much more than a victory for the there been dialogue rather than confrontation. Queensland Turf Club chairman and his Although the final outcome is a good one, the committee. It is a victory for commonsense, drawn-out process leading up to it was for fairness and for the rights of the more than unnecessary and unhelpful. Eagle Farm is 2 000 Queenslanders who are members of one of the finest racecourses in Australia. The the Queensland Turf Club and therefore the spacious track and the long straight are often ultimate owners of Eagle Farm Racecourse. I compared favourably with those at the commend the Director-General of the nation’s premier racecourses, Randwick and Department of Tourism, Sport and Racing, Mr Flemington. It is a credit to the course ranger, David Williams, for the leadership and good Mr Alan Shuck, and his staff, as well as the sense that he has displayed during the 14 October 1993 5250 Legislative Assembly chairman, Mr Peter Gallagher, and his Minister says that this provision is aimed at committee. avoiding a situation in which a conflict of There is undoubtedly a need to upgrade interest arises. Although this provision is public grandstand facilities at Eagle Farm. accepted by the Queensland Turf Club, I Today, race clubs have difficulty attracting believe it is unnecessary and limits the ability patrons to meetings because of the intense of the trust to be comprised of the best competition from modern TAB agencies, available people. The Bill provides for three or PubTAB and ClubTAB, Sky Channel and four trustees. Would the roof fall in if one of other successful sporting clubs, such as the the trustees also happened to be a committee Broncos, the Bullets and even the Bears—all member? We must be careful not to take to competing for the spectator dollar. Last year, extreme and unnecessary lengths the need to the Australian Jockey Club built a magnificent prevent situations in which a conflict of interest new public grandstand at Randwick. I am told could arise. The Minister should pay some that the public facilities are even better than attention to that matter, because in my view the members’ facilities. As a result, crowds that has occurred in recent times. have started to improve. In recent years, If this provision is taken to the extreme, similar new stands have been provided at public servants will not be able to serve on the Canterbury and Rose Hill in Sydney and at State Superannuation Board; dairy farmers will Doomben here in Brisbane—all designed to not be able to serve on the Queensland Dairy attract patrons back to the course. Industry Authority; and a port user will not be Both the Queensland Turf Club and the able to serve on the Harbours Board. I believe Brisbane Amateur Turf Club, which runs that trusts ought to bring together citizens Doomben, are the main contributors to racing representing the broader community. Provided revenue in this State. We can have the most that no one section dominates, there is modern TABs, and even home betting, but if nothing wrong a member of a trust being we do not have race clubs and race meetings, drawn from the sport or the association that the TAB will be worthless. The contribution by operates under it. the major clubs to the success of the TAB and I understand that the Minister has already to the Treasury must not be downgraded or made it very clear that next year, when the overlooked. I welcome the additional prize work on upgrading Lang Park is completed, money being made available to clubs such as the trust members who represent Queensland the Queensland Turf Club and the Brisbane Rugby League and Brisbane Rugby League Amateur Turf Club, because prize money is will be replaced by members who hold no the lifeblood for owners, trainers and jockeys. official position with Queensland Rugby However, there remains a need for the League or Brisbane Rugby League. Given the Government, through the Racecourse checks and balances that are in place, one Development Fund, to assist the major clubs must really question whether such extreme to boost race day attendances and meet the action is necessary. All Government trusts are competition from offcourse betting and other subject to ministerial supervision, and they are sports. accountable to the Auditor-General and to Now that the relationship between the that el supremo body, the Criminal Justice trustees of Eagle Farm and the Queensland Commission. Turf Club is being clearly established, I urge If the Minister intends to persist with the Minister to give favourable support to any excluding committee members from serving request for funding to upgrade the amenities on the Eagle Farm Trust, does he intend to at Eagle Farm, in the same way that generous ensure that, in the interests of consistency, assistance has been given over the years to the same rule applies to every racecourse and other clubs throughout the State. It is worth sporting venue trust in Queensland? For mentioning that, during the last financial year, example, will this Minister request the Minister the Queensland Turf Club spent more than for Lands to remove the Chairman of the half a million dollars from its own resources to Ipswich Turf Club, Mr Bob Bentley, from the upgrade the public dining room at Eagle trust that controls the Bundamba racecourse? Farm. So comments from one or two sources I have reservations about this provision. that the club has ignored the public are well However, if it is to become part of the statutes, wide of the mark. it must apply equally to all. I hope that, in his I now want to refer to one or two other reply, the Minister will clarify whether this is a aspects of this legislation. It prevents a one-off provision or whether it is to be made member of the committee of the Queensland uniform for all trusts. Turf Club from serving as a trustee. The Legislative Assembly 5251 14 October 1993

We find ourselves in a unique position in Even though Ken never had formal debating this Bill. This is one of the rare training as a hoop, his success demonstrates occasions on which legislation is supported his incredible ability. His expertise and his very with much greater enthusiasm by the affable and outgoing personality—he was a Opposition than by the Minister charged with thorough little gentleman—will be very much the responsibility for introducing it. I believe missed in the racing industry. On behalf of the that this legislation reasonably and responsibly Government, I extend to his wife and his resolves the conflict that has existed between family our deepest sympathies upon his the Queensland Turf Club and the trustees of passing. the Eagle Farm Racecourse. It resolves that As has been stated by honourable conflict in a manner that confirms the rights of members, this Bill is acceptable to all people, the members of the club, who are the regardless of on what side of the political beneficial owners of the Eagle Farm fence they may stand. Unfortunately, the Racecourse. It places in a correct perspective Opposition trotted out its usual stinging and the relative responsibilities of the committee of vicious attack—and I use those words in a the club and the trustees of the Eagle Farm very guarded sense. Such an attack from the Racecourse. Opposition always upsets me and rocks me to I support the Bill. I hope that it will enable my foundations. Unnecessary criticism was the Queensland Turf Club to build on the made about the quality of the people who tremendous achievements that it has have been appointed as trustees of the Eagle recorded over 130 years as a leader in our Farm Racecourse. The member for Southport great racing industry. contended that those appointees do not have Hon. R. J. GIBBS (Bundamba— Minister an interest in the racing industry. I do not for Tourism, Sport and Racing) (5.24 p.m.), in know how the member could make such a reply: I thank all honourable members for their claim about Wally Tutt, who owned the contributions. I join with the Opposition outstanding horse Handsome Prince and has spokesman, the member for Southport, in owned numerous other horses over the years. expressing on behalf of the Government our Wally Tutt has invested money in an industry very deep sympathy and regret at the death that he loves and in which he has always of Ken Russell at Rose Hill last Saturday. Very played a very prominent role. The former often, this Parliament passes condolence treasurer of the Queensland Turf Club, Mr motions for former members of this place who Brian Sweeney, has served with great have given service to their State. The sad part distinction as a member of the Queensland is that in many cases we are unable to Turf Club for many years. Dr Barry Duncan is recognise the feats of other outstanding also a financial member of the Queensland Queenslanders who have equally served this Turf Club. The absolute slagging to which State in other jurisdictions. Unfortunately, they those people have been subjected over the do not receive the recognition that they past 18 months is most regrettable. I have deserve. heard it all before. Ken Russell will be buried tomorrow at One point that members opposite just Monto. It is with great regret that I will not be love to conveniently forget is that, when we able to be present, because I head off came to office in 1989, certain overseas tomorrow morning. That is an recommendations were put to me by the unfortunate clash of timing. There is no doubt Auditor-General and the Solicitor-General. that Ken Russell was an outstanding rider and Those recommendations had also been put to a great Queenslander. He loved this State. He previous Racing Ministers under the carried the insignia of Queensland proudly Liberal/National Party Government and under wherever he went in racing circles. He was one the National Party Government. The of the very few people in the racing industry recommendations were that changes should who never served an apprenticeship as a be made to the legislation relevant to the jockey. His love for riding began at an early trustees of Eagle Farm. Those changes were age, but it was not until his early twenties that recommended because of the large amounts he decided that he might give the game a go. of money being contributed to the Racing He started riding locally and progressed to Development Fund that, over a period of Rockhampton and other bush tracks in the years, amounted to some millions of dollars. vicinity. His riding skills were so impressive that That money was entrusted to the trustees of he started to ride at the Gold Coast where, for Eagle Farm. However, because of the way in quite a number of seasons, he was the which the relevant legislation was framed, premiership jockey. He went on to win a there was never a requirement for those number of premierships in Brisbane. trustees to provide a report to this Parliament, 14 October 1993 5252 Legislative Assembly even though other trustees throughout in a person who was seen as an independent Queensland were required to do so. When the negotiator, and get the parties together. Even Government of the day asked for such a though members opposite may still choose to report to be furnished to the Parliament, the criticise the legislation, it is before the House trustees of Eagle Farm refused. They took the as a direct result of negotiation between all Government to court. In the end, the then parties and has received my final approval. All trustees of the Eagle Farm Racecourse won parties are satisfied with the legislation. their case in court. It was as a result of that The honourable member for Nudgee action that the recommendation came from commented on the Hamilton Bowls Club. I am the Crown Solicitor and from the Attorney- aware of concerns expressed by members of General. the Hamilton Bowls Club. However, it must be Apart from what I saw as a conflict of remembered that the Hamilton Bowls Club is interest, I was simply not prepared to situated on land that is held in trust by the reappoint as trustees of Eagle Farm Eagle Farm Racecourse. To my knowledge, Racecourse three people who had refused no price has been mentioned in terms of point blank to provide to this Parliament a selling the land to the Hamilton Bowls Club. If report accounting for how the moneys were that were to be the case, it would have to spent. That is the basic reason why they were come to me for a decision. not reappointed. I do not believe that any The honourable member for Nudgee person in this State is above the law of this should be aware that the money that that club Parliament. If people are not prepared to was paying to carry out activities on a fairly recognise that, they do not deserve high profile and well situated block of land has reappointment to positions. been—— The other matter that honourable Mr Veivers: Now. members opposite have failed to recognise is that the three people whom I appointed to Mr GIBBS: It may be now, but for the become trustees of Eagle Farm Racecourse past 20 years it has always been a prime were appointed under the previous legislation piece of real estate. Quite frankly, I believe that had been in existence, as the honourable that there are other organisations in Brisbane member for Nudgee pointed out, since the and Queensland which would gladly pay early 1950s. Nothing changed. The legislation $1,000 a year rental—in other words, $20 a was exactly the same. It was legislation which week—to occupy land of that nature on which had previously been totally acceptable to the to conduct a sporting club. That is a cheap Queensland Turf Club. The only thing that rental. Poker machines have been installed in changed was that committee members were the club. From my knowledge of the matter, I no longer the trustees of the Eagle Farm believe that, with the number of poker Racecourse. They could not live with the fact machines installed in the club, it would be that they were no longer the trustees. It had making $25,000 net profit a month. It is not nothing to do with any other part of the acceptable that a club that is making a net legislation. profit of $25,000 a month, plus profit on bar takings and other incidentals, should be I will deal shortly with the honourable paying $1,000 a year rental. member for Indooroopilly. However, I make the point that no director-general of any If the club is prepared to negotiate the department would rush off and do things off proposition of purchasing the land from the his own bat. My director-general certainly does trustees, I am sure that they would consider not. I can assure the House that I directed my the matter. However, I do not think that director-general to undertake negotiations renegotiating the rental on that club is an both with the trustees and with the committee. unfair proposition. I did that because I get heartily sick and tired I will turn briefly to the member for of the harping of some people not only on the Indooroopilly, who indulged in vitriol for which other side of the Chamber but also in other he has become famous in this Parliament. I areas of the racing industry who constantly find it regrettable. A couple of years ago, he want to bring up this absolute garbage about had a reasonable reputation in this place and a personal vendetta that I have against the in the community. On Wednesday, I was at Queensland Turf Club. the racetrack with a group of racing people. I My attitude was that we should cool the assure the honourable member that some of matter down and get some sensible, rational the negative statements that he has been discussion going on the issue. The best way making in the Parliament and in the media to do that was for me to take a back seat, put have caused a number of people to refer to him as an ant, and that is being kind. He can Legislative Assembly 5253 14 October 1993 please himself as to what those people in the industry. Bundamba is Crown land. The prefaced that term with. That is the sort of trust that operates there under a completely regard in which the honourable member is separate Act from any of my portfolio held in the racing industry. responsibilities, namely, the Land Act, is The honourable member spoke about required by legislation to provide a report to dialogue between the Chairman of the this Parliament. That is the difference. Queensland Turf Club and me. I have made I go back to the point on which I started. this point to the honourable member If the trustees that I replaced at Eagle Farm previously, but he seems to have chosen not had provided this Parliament with a report of to listen to it. The Chairman of the their activities in relation to how the money Queensland Turf Club, Mr Gallagher, has was spent, this legislation would not have approached me twice for meetings; once in come before this Parliament because it would his capacity as Chairman of the Queensland not have been necessary. In fact, I go so far Turf Club and once in his previous capacity as as to say that the full membership of the Chairman of the Queensland Principal Club. Queensland Turf Club was never provided with On both occasions, he has been granted a a report from the trustees for the last quarter meeting with me within 24 hours. He has of a century. In the past 25 years, those never been denied access to me and never members were never provided with a report by held at arm’s length from me. I reiterate that, if the trustees of the Eagle Farm Racecourse. he had cared to pick up the phone and speak As to the statement that there was a to me about the matter, he would have been huge, tumultuous uproar from members of the granted an audience with me once more and Queensland Turf Club about proposed we could have sat down and worked sensibly changes in the legislation—I can only act on through it. Instead, he went through the the advice that I am given, and I am advised drama of hiring a PR firm, calling a press that that is absolute blarney; that the number conference on the eve of the Stradbroke of phone calls to the Queensland Turf Club Handicap in the middle of the Winter Carnival from its members was almost negligible. If one and throwing the industry into chaos. I found took a poll among the members of the that not only disturbing but also a tragedy. Queensland Turf Club and asked them The legislation provides that the whether they are aware of how much of the members of the Queensland Turf Club will land at Eagle Farm has been hived off—could control the destiny of the club. There has someone refresh my memory as to how much never been any intention by the Government land there was originally at Eagle Farm? or me to deny people at the club the right to Mr Vaughan: 320 acres. control their destiny. I might say that, when the first report came to me from the trustees Mr GIBBS: I am advised that it is as to their suggestion to overhaul the bylaws, considerably less today because, over the my reaction was that I would not have agreed years, it has been sold off to allow additional to some of the suggestions contained in those areas for development by various individuals. bylaws, because I would never deny clubs the There have been other reasons for selling the right to decide admission to the track. The land over that period. The broad membership club committee should decide who should and of the Queensland Turf Club would not know who should not be allowed on the track, what has happened there in relation to the particularly if it is a warned off person, and trustees’ activities. I know that that could have should decide on dress standards. Those a reaction among people who suggest that matters were never an issue in my mind. They something improper has occurred. I am not were issues in the minds of other people, who suggesting that in any way. I am simply saying chose to blow them out of all proportion. that the trustees have a responsibility to report to this Parliament. They also have a The final point I make is that the member responsibility to report to their members. This for Indooroopilly is becoming notorious for legislation will ensure that that takes place in constantly criticising the Chairman of the the future. I thank all honourable members for Queensland Principal Club. He talks about a their contributions. conflict of interest because the Chairman of the Queensland Principal Club happens also Motion agreed to. to be the chairman and a trustee of the very successful mid-week club, the Ipswich Turf Committee Club. Again, this shows that the member has not done his homework. He has allowed Clauses 1 to 23, as read, agreed to. himself to be blinded by some internal turmoil Bill reported, without amendment. that he obviously has with certain personalities 14 October 1993 5254 Legislative Assembly

Third Reading There has also been a recognition that Bill, on motion of Mr Gibbs, by leave, the decision-making controls that are being read a third time. put in place need some sort of correction. An example given was that a person may go through a series of treatments that are all INTELLECTUALLY DISABLED CITIZENS related to one particular illness. The AMENDMENT BILL assistance of the Legal Friend was sought Second Reading with regard to those treatments, and it has now been decided to combine all those Debate resumed from 16 September treatments into a course of treatments. That (see p. 4443). seems to be a very sensible amendment. The Mr LITTLEPROUD (Western Downs) Opposition supports that. (5.46 p.m.): The Bill currently before the There is an insistence in this Bill that the House, the Intellectually Disabled Citizens Legal Friend must always consult with the Amendment Bill 1993, amends the family and relatives of the intellectually Intellectually Disabled Citizens Act 1985. disabled person before a decision is made. Obviously, when that Act was passed it had Obviously, the Opposition commends that. the support of the coalition. It was created to But I raise one matter on which the Minister address the needs of citizens in Queensland might like to comment. Is the very same with intellectual disabilities. It was designed stipulation put upon those actions that are especially to meet the needs of those people carried out by the Public Trustee for disabled in relation to decisions that are made about people? Is there a responsibility for them to their affairs. consult? Since I became the member for the As was pointed out by the Minister, this part of Queensland that I represent now, there legislation amends and enhances the have been occasions when some difficulties workings of that piece of legislation, especially have arisen with the affairs of people who the Intellectually Disabled Citizens Council of have intellectual disabilities and the people Queensland. It was opportune that, yesterday, with whom they share banking accounts and the Minister tabled the eighth annual report of operate businesses. The Minister might care that body. After reading that report, one to comment on that. quickly realises that the workload of that body I am heartened by the Minister’s has increased greatly. The report states that comment that there is a continuation of the the number of reviews of decisions that it has basic tenet that the decisions made by the undertaken over the years on behalf of Legal Friend or the council will always be on disabled people will grow rather alarmingly. the basis that it will be the least amount That being the case, there have to be some necessary to help that intellectually disabled changes to the composition of the council. person. We obviously have in place According to the annual report, not long ago something that has served Queensland well. there were nine people on that council. That Propositions have been put forward that can number was then expanded to 13. The enhance the performance of that council. I suggestion is that it should now be increased pay tribute to those people who serve on that to 20. In his second-reading speech, the council and the work done by volunteer friends Minister pointed out that the members of that and the Public Trustee. With that one council want the capacity to meet across the qualification of asking for an explanation from State simultaneously. Their workload is the Minister, I am happy to announce that the growing at such a rate that there need to be Opposition supports this amendment Bill more personnel out there. I support that before the House. proposition. Mr BREDHAUER (Cook) (5.50 p.m.): The I also note that, within this legislation, a amendments to the Intellectually Disabled correction will be made. Inadvertently, the Citizens Act proposed by the Honourable the legal liability exemption that was first given to Minister for Family Services and Aboriginal members of the council was lost for some and Islander Affairs provides for greater time. That situation is being corrected. In fact, efficiencies and effectiveness in delivering I received one phone call from a person who assistance to people with an intellectual was concerned about that. When this Bill was disability. Access to various forms of introduced into the House, I sent a copy of the assistance provided by this legislation is Bill to that person. I have received no through application to the Intellectually response to that. So I imagine that that Disabled Citizens Council of Queensland. person is very pleased that the correction has Following receipt of an application for special been made. assistance, staff of the office of the council Legislative Assembly 5255 14 October 1993 undertake preliminary inquiries so that The proposed amendments to the adequate information supports the legislation pose significant implications for the application. This ensures that when functions of the council. These amendments arrangements are made for proceedings, will allow matters to be addressed by the council members are provided with as much council in a more efficient and effective information as possible about a citizen’s manner, hence facilitating timely and informed needs and abilities. decisions. Under the current provisions, the The provision to amend section 31 (1) of Governor in Council is able to appoint a the Act will allow the council greater access to member to act in the position of chairperson information on which a panel can make a during an absence, incapacity or unavailability more informed decision. Under the current of the chairperson. However, during temporary Act, the chairman, chairperson or convenor of periods of unavailability, delays may be a panel can request the supply of information experienced in accessing the chairperson for relating to the functional competence of a advice or for the completion of administrative citizen named in an application. While the duties, for example, signing decisions of the request is specific to functional competence council. The addition of the first deputy information, it limits the opportunity for the chairperson and a second deputy chairperson council to ascertain the full picture of the allows the provision of consistent services and citizen’s needs, abilities and lifestyle. advice from the chair. These amendments will promote readily available access to the deputy In order to provide effective assistance to should the chairperson be unavailable. all Queenslanders who have an intellectual disability, council members and staff travel Currently, panels comprising three extensively throughout the State. The person, members of the council conduct proceedings their nearest relative and others who are and make recommendations at the next significantly involved in the person’s life and council meeting about the type and level of have information and insight to contribute to assistance required. In practice, it may be the council’s decision-making process are three weeks before a panel decision is ratified invited to the proceedings. These proceedings at a monthly council meeting. The necessary take the form of a round-table discussion. administrative processes of preparing, writing, Everyone present is invited to contribute and checking and dispatching the decision adds to to ask and answer questions. Council the time in advising people of the council members ask questions of the citizen and decision. The experience of the council others present in order to assist them in indicates that this practice has the potential to forming an opinion about the abilities, cause unnecessary anxiety to care givers, competence and need for assistance that a professionals, the citizen and family members person may have. as they wait to receive the decision. The principle of the least restrictive The proposed amendments address this alternative applies in every situation where issue effectively, and provide for the special assistance is provided. The council chairperson, first deputy or second deputy aims to support an intellectually disabled chairperson in respect of absences to consider person to exercise as much self- a report and the recommendation of a panel determination as possible over his or her life with two other council members. In effect, this choices. Many citizens who are frail or ageing, can be done at proceedings where the and with severe disability, are unable to chairperson, first deputy or second deputy personally attend proceedings. Sensitive to chairperson preside. In those circumstances, these people’s needs, the council is the panel recommendation can be ratified as increasingly using provisions in the Act that a decision of the council on the spot and, if allow a person to be authorised to conduct an necessary, verbally conveyed to those present interview with them in familiar surroundings. at the proceedings. The completion of This approach reduces significantly the administrative processes will allow individuals potential stress or discomfort that may be to be notified in writing of the decision much experienced by some people with a severe faster. This will reduce the time people may impairment, while still providing equitable wait for decisions and their access to services. access to assistance. In the last year, council It is the experience of the council that members and staff personally visited over 100 generally, people do not consider the issue of people in nursing homes, hostels, hospitals authority to give consent, make decisions or and private homes. This pro-active approach sign documents until the onset of a particular provides a human face to the administration event. In many circumstances, this then of this legislation. requires urgent assistance. The provision of emergency powers to assist people in these 14 October 1993 5256 Legislative Assembly circumstances allows the Legal Friend, on the The introduction of comparable legislation authority of the chairperson, to provide a quick in other States has resulted in the move response. This mechanism has alleviated the towards the establishment of boards or bodies potential for criticisms to be levelled at delays such as the council, and this reflects the for assistance while proceedings are arranged. recognition that accessible and sensitive This urgent assistance is provided for people solutions to the needs of disadvantaged requiring a consent, as well as protecting people are required. people from being unduly disadvantaged It is also important to note that through the financially or personally owing to their enhanced capacity that these amendments disabilities. This degree of flexibility and will provide, people will be able to adopt a provision for urgent action also provides equity more informal approach to their procedures of access for people who live in outlying and and their ability to bring a wider array of remote areas of the State requiring perspectives to bear through their assistance. membership of administrative tribunals such Some citizens with an intellectual as this one to provide effective solutions. disability are unable to manage their financial It is generally recognised that the current affairs effectively, leaving themselves, their provisions do not go far enough in family and their property vulnerable. In such acknowledging that other key people in the instances, the council is able to appoint the lives of the person with an intellectual disability Public Trustee to manage a citizen’s financial could be considered as assistants or affairs. The involvement of the Public Trustee substitute decision makers, and this must be is a vital mechanism. It can be used to left to the Law Reform Commission, to fulfil its prevent others taking advantage of a citizen. It brief to the Attorney-General, by making is also of assistance when the citizen’s actions reform recommendations. We await those may be against his or her best interests. The reform recommendations with interest. The flexibility of referral into and out of the Public Intellectually Disabled Citizens Act provides a Trustee’s assistance is a unique and well- range of options for people who require respected mechanism. It affords protection at support owing to the severity of their times of need and provides for a person to intellectual disability. This assistance is regain control of his or her affairs quickly and provided within a legislative framework that inexpensively when and if circumstances alter, balances the promotion of self-determination, and such assistance is no longer necessary. the recognition of people’s abilities and the The Intellectually Disabled Citizens Act safeguarding of individual rights, while provides flexible and functional assistance to a minimising the extent of intervention into the range of people in need. Many people require fabric of people’s lives. assistance outside normal business hours, I thank the member for Western Downs, and this has required the legislation and its who outlined the Opposition’s support of the administration to respond on a 24 hour, seven Bill. As he rightly points out, the council’s days a week basis. The Intellectually Disabled workload has changed significantly, and is Citizens Act is, therefore, highly responsive increasing. These amendments are necessary and flexible to the needs and demands of all to streamline the effect of the Act. I note his Queenslanders who have an intellectual question during his comments that under this disability. To assist the council in the effective legislation, the Legal Friend must consult with the family before decisions are taken. The conduct of its operations, it has been member asked if that applied to the Public necessary to provide clarification of some Trustee. That is not a legislative requirement legislative provisions. Those amendments are of the Public Trustee, but I understand that designed to achieve that purpose, and should the policy of the Public Trustee is to talk to as be fully endorsed. I support the Bill before the many people as possible who have the House. information and, indeed, to be consultative in Hon. A. M. WARNER (South its approach and to provide a human face Brisbane—Minister for Family Services and rather than making bureaucratic decisions Aboriginal and Islander Affairs) (5.56 p.m.), in behind closed doors. I suspect that that issue reply: I mention to the House that the original may very well be dealt with in the Law Reform intent of the Act was to boost the protection of Commission’s report, and we await that with the rights and responsibilities of citizens with interest. If that is not included, then obviously, an intellectual disability. Over the nine years of we will have to have another look at the Public the administration of the Act, we have gone a Trustee’s role. However, there have been long way towards achieving this intent. huge improvements in this area over the past few years, and I optimistically look forward to Legislative Assembly 5257 14 October 1993 their being greater improvements to the whole regulations, recommend consultation provision of substitute decision making in this procedures and administrative State. arrangements which will: Motion agreed to. ensure thorough assessment of the need for a particular regulation; and Committee ensure thorough assessment of the full cost and benefit of proposed Clauses 1 to 28, as read, agreed to. regulations including the cost of Bill reported, without amendment. business compliance . . .” The Savage report terms of reference go Third Reading much further; however, I think it is quite clear where they were heading in December 1985. I Bill, on motion of Ms Warner, by leave, mention some of the recommendations that read a third time. were made back then and some of the Sitting suspended from 6.01 to 7.30 p.m. comments of the day. One is under the executive summary as— REGULATORY REFORM AMENDMENT BILL “As regulations have accumulated, the effect on industry has become Second Reading oppressive. Whilst many individual Debate resumed from 16 September regulations may be reasonable and may (see p. 4446). even impose modest cost, the enormity Mr CONNOR (Nerang) (7.30 p.m.): To of the total regulatory burden is adversely begin, I would like to give credit to the people affecting the viability of industry and involved in the process that initiated regulatory acting as a disincentive to investment.” reform in 1985. This goes back to the Savage It went on further to say— inquiry. The committee consisted of Sir Ernest “Industry compliance with regulatory Savage, chairman; Sir Albert Abbott, Local requirements can be difficult, expensive Government Association; Mr Peter Ellis, and wasteful because of a lack of Premier’s Department; Howard Jones, information, adequate advisory Capricorn Coal Management Company; Mr assistance, excessive paper work or Arthur Scurr, Scurr Brothers; and, Mr Keith conflicting regulatory requirements . . .” Williams. Many people give, to the Federal Beddall inquiry, credit for much of the reform And further— process relating to the business community. “Because of the scope for However, much of the work done by the administrative efficiencies because it is Savage committee predated that report. coercive, because it restricts freedoms The Savage report is a two-part and rights, government regulations document that had most sectors of the should be the ‘last resort’ instrument of business community contributing. and, just as policy implementation.” the Beddall report did, made many Thus an eminent group of business people recommendations, but many of the and others determined, after an in-depth recommendations of both the Savage report comprehensive review, that Government and the Beddall report are still to be regulation was stifling business and something implemented. At least we know, as a result of had to be done about it. these inquiries, the direction we need to head. One of their recommendations, in fact the I mention an extract of the terms of existing Act, is in the back of this second reference of the Savage report so that all report word for word. So this is how the members can see where this Regulatory Regulatory Reform Act of 1986 was initiated. Reform Act fits in. It says— However, it has had fairly limited success in “The committee shall: achieving its goal. We now find that review of the Act itself, which was intended to have 1. Identify regulatory requirements which been conducted in 1990 to determine its the business sector consider to be effectiveness, is still to be completed. The unnecessary or in need of reform . . .” Electoral Administrative Review Commission in It then refers to Part 4, and states— October last year brought down a report which “In respect of both existing and future includes a section dealing with regulations. The parliamentary committee has not dealt with this, and the review process has not been 14 October 1993 5258 Legislative Assembly completed, so we have another delay in extended the ways in which they could dealing with this legislation, which brings about exempt their regulations from scrutiny and the need for the amendment Bill that we are sunset clauses. debating here today. I notice that the Minister, in his speech, I would like to call this amendment Bill the said that it passed into his portfolio in March Yes, Minister Bill. I call it that for a very good 1992—about the time that it would have come reason. I looked back at the Minister’s second- under the notice of the bureaucracy that reading speech on 16 September last where EARC was reviewing it. While these he said— bureaucrats were amusing themselves with “. . . the Regulatory Reform Act their brandies and ports, they thought, “Well, Amendment Bill will put in place an we will shift it towards a new Minister, or a interim arrangement which will provide for more junior Minister, a fresh face, where either a smoother transition towards a more he will not have the time to realise that he has comprehensive legislative sunset been conned or he will not have had enough program, should government pursue that experience to realise what we are up to”. end . . .” I wonder whether they used the old trick So what the Minister has said is that the of putting it at the bottom of the pile during a Government has at this stage not determined very busy Cabinet week. I wonder what it was to pursue a more comprehensive legislative that they used to convince this Minister that sunset program. So, if we look at this this piece of legislation was either insignificant amending Bill from that perspective, we have or was in the best interests of the to assume then that what we have here is Government. This piece of legislation is not in maybe what we will end up with, and that anyone’s interests other than the bureaucracy. there will not be a further “more What it does is extend their total control of the comprehensive legislative sunset program” as regulatory process and allows them, through a recommended by EARC. It is with the thought mere regulation, to make the necessary that the Government has not as yet changes. determined to pursue EARC’s I turn now to what EARC had to say recommendation that I put this Bill under about the original Act: scrutiny. Quite simply, if one puts this Bill “The responsible Minister at the time under scrutiny, one finds one very important said, ‘To ensure that these clauses are aspect and that is, that this Bill gives even not invoked unnecessarily, I will have to more scope for the bureaucracy to exempt be convinced of the need for an regulations from sunset clauses and the exemption . . .’ discipline that goes with it. Despite the Minister’s assurance Mr This is going in the opposite direction to A Innes MLA of the Liberal Party both EARC’s recommendation and what is in opposed this provision in the Bill, calling it the best interests of the business community. a Trojan horse: Section 4 (2) (c) has been amended to allow more flexibility. That is the section that came ‘We find it full of bold and impressive under the greatest criticism by the business things, designed to impress the public . . . community and EARC and others as the the Bill looks like a concrete, specific major out for the bureaucracy to exempt program for the elimination of restrictive regulations from the sunset clauses. Rather red tape in this State. than modify the legislation so that it tightens How does one avoid the provisions up, this amendment simply makes it easier. of the Bill? How does one avoid the And what else do we find? Clause 6, which shackles? How do Ministers and amends section 5, gives the bureaucracy one departments ensure that regulations will more way of exempting regulations from continue and survive? They do it by sunset clauses. passing a regulation—by passing a So the poor old Minister has been gotten regulation! at by Sir Humphrey in the true traditions of It is not even subject to disallowance. Yes, Minister. I can just picture the mandarins The Bill has an impressive exterior sitting down in a quiet armchair sipping their . . . but it contains a fatal, short clause port, amusing themselves about how they that states that the way to avoid conned the Minister; amusing themselves regulatory reform is to pass a about how, in one short two-page piece of regulation.’ ” legislation, they have managed not only to put off the review of this Act, but also to have That was Mr Innes back in 1987. Legislative Assembly 5259 14 October 1993

Mr Budd: Mr who? setting. Of particular concern is that the Mr CONNOR: Mr Angus Innes. As a exemption once granted was for all time.” result of the statutory instruments, they are At the Committee stage, I will talk more about changing that “get out” clause to ensure that that. I will be moving one amendment to this backdoor exemption remains. ensure that exemptions apply only for a I go further with what EARC had to say so specific time and that that fear of EARC does that the House fully understands what the Sir not continue. I know that the Minister will say Humphreys of Queensland have been up to. that the report will be reviewed and that we do Clause 4.115 reads— not want to pre-empt PEARC. However, the fact remains that the Bill is before the House, “Despite the assurances given by the and in the next 12 months anything could then Government in 1986 that happen. We fear that the clause that sets the exemptions under s.4(2) of the Act would date on which this expires will be extended. be a ‘rare occurrence’, within five years 355 sets of regulations had been Mr Elder: Don’t you tell me to drop dead. exempted. Of the remaining sets of Mr CONNOR: Not for a moment would I regulations, approximately 123 sets were want the Minister to drop dead. The Minister allowed to expire and approximately 144 adds too much character to the House. sets of regulations were redrafted and Mr Elder: Are you trying to save yourself remade (WA Joint Standing Committee from a hit later on? on Delegated Legislation 1991, p.29). Mr CONNOR: I do not think that I will. 4.116 An evaluation of the Savage Under point 4.118, the Electoral and Committee’s reforms including the Administrative Review Commission stated operation of the Regulatory Reform Act further— 1986 has been attempted by Tait who “The Commission considers the conducted a survey of all Queensland provisions of s.4 (2) should be redrafted Government regulatory activity during the to make exemptions available only by period 1 July 1986 to 31 June 1988 way of regulation and on narrowly (1990, p.68). specified grounds. Specifically, an Tait found that there was no exemption by regulation should only be evidence to show that regulatory activity available for subordinate legislation that is in Queensland was reduced in real terms. substantially uniform or complimentary Of all regulations due for review under with legislation of the Commonwealth or sunset provisions, 26 per cent were another State or Territory. exempted under s.4 (2) of that Act and a Because of the departments’ past further 27 per cent were simply re- disregard for the objectives of the current submitted in their previous form. Tait Act, the Commission considers that this concluded: should be the only form of exemption ‘Savage’s desire to see Green from the sun setting provision. However, Papers, sunset clauses and a greater use in recognition of the difficulty that many of appeal mechanisms has not been departments may face in redrafting the heeded and, in most cases, ignored.’ ” volumes of old subordinate legislation, the Commission considers that an The Act has nothing whatsoever to do extension of up to one year of the with the Government of the day. It makes no expiration date should also be allowed. difference. The bureaucracy is using the Act to Further, the Commission considers that avoid the need for any sort of scrutiny of this extension should only be available regulations. I hope that the Minister will have where the responsible Minister has the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the demonstrated to the Legislative bureaucrats. That is what it is all about. EARC Assembly that: stated further— (a) replacement subordinate “The Commission has not attempted legislation is currently being drafted and to determine the true number of will be made before the end of the regulations currently in force but believes extended period; or the above example demonstrates that (b) the subordinate legislation will not the aims of the Savage Committee be replaced when it expires at the end of appear to have been undermined by the the extended period.” ability to exempt regulations from sun 14 October 1993 5260 Legislative Assembly

As I said, EARC was particularly worried The first view (the expiration view) is that the regulation review process would be that s. 5 (1) (d) of that Act will cause undermined by clause 4 (2) (c). EARC regulations made after 30 June 1986 to proposed major changes to that. The coalition cease to have effect on the seventh will propose that that clause be omitted anniversary of the day on which they altogether and that clause 6, which will replace were made, regardless of whether s. 5 or section 5, will allow for the exemption of any other provision of that Act continues regulations only for a specific time frame. In to operate, even after 31 December no way does that limit the Government of the 1993.” day in exempting regulations from sunsetting. At point 4.92, the report states further— It will mean that there is a set time frame and then the regulations will have to come back to “This view is supported on the the Minister. We will not have the Sir ground that s. 5 (1) (d) of that Act Humphreys of the world covering up things provides that any regulations made after from the Minister. 30 June 1986 must contain a provision that those regulations will cease to In relation to the problems with the operate after seven years and any set of sunsetting of the Regulatory Reform Act, the regulations that omits such a provision is EARC report stated at point 4.91— invalid to the extent to which it purports to “Sections 7 and 8 of the Regulatory operate in excess of seven years.” Reform Act 1986 cause considerable We have total confusion. We have two totally uncertainty about the future impact of the different views as to what would happen if the Act.” Act were to expire under its own sunsetting That is one of the reasons why we are clause. With that in mind and because we do debating this legislation. If the sunsetting not want that chaos to prevail, the coalition will provision within the Act were to expire, the support the continuation of the Act. whole regulatory system would be thrown into I would like to cover the EARC chaos. The coalition will support the recommendations on the Act, particularly continuation of the Act because, if we did not, those two sections, so that the matter can be it would cause havoc within the system. dealt with in the future. At point 4.106 of the However, as I said, the coalition will move an report, the commission recommended that— amendment to try to limit the exemptions under regulations. The EARC report stated— “(a) the provisions contained in ss. 7 and 8 of the Regulatory Reform Act 1986 “Sections 7 and 8 of the Regulatory be repealed.” Reform Act 1986 cause considerable uncertainty about the future impact of the Obviously, because we are extending it, we do Act. As noted above, s. 7 sunsets the Act not have that imminent problem at this stage. itself. Section 8 provides— However, it should be considered when PEARC reviews that in the future. We do not (1) Upon its expiration as prescribed, want that chaos and confusion again. The this Act or, as the case may be, commission recommended further that— subordinate legislation shall, subject to subsection (2), cease to be of force and “(b) the legislative requirements for effect. the regulatory reform be subject to a formal review by the proposed Scrutiny of (2) Section 20 (1) and (2) of the Acts Legislation Committee every seven Interpretation Act 1954-1977 applies not years.” only in relation to this Act, upon its expiration, but also in relation to all I hope that that also is put in any amending subordinate legislation that expires in Bill that comes before the House. accordance with this Act as if the I turn to point 4.107 of the report, which subordinate legislation were an Act.” covers some recommendations on how to limit At point 4.92, the EARC report stated— the reform process exemptions so that the process is workable for both the Government “The Commission has taken legal and the bureaucracy but, at the same time, is advice from its General Counsel on the workable for business. If this review process is effect of these sun setting provisions (a not in place and if the bureaucracy continues full copy of the advice is contained in to be allowed to exempt regulations from Appendix H). The Commission can see scrutiny ad infinitum, this problem will continue two possible and conflicting views as to to exist. At present, it may be the political the effect of s. 7 of the Regulatory flavour of the month to be seeking to get rid of Reform Act 1986. regulations, but that does not mean to say Legislative Assembly 5261 14 October 1993 that, at some time in the future, that policy will were open to any form of parliamentary change. We need to put in place measures scrutiny.” that streamline the process and continue the In section 4.120, the EARC report referred to process, irrespective of the Government of the the problems identified by the Liberal Party in day. 1986. That was the statement by Angus Innes In section 4.107, the EARC report that I quoted earlier, about the fact that it was states— a Trojan Horse and that it was only a matter of “Although the recommendations of moving a regulation and—in this case—355 the Savage Committee were clearly regulatory regimes were able to be exempted. targeted at regulations affecting business We do not want the same thing to recur. The and industry, the Regulatory Reform Act EARC report continued— 1986 was much wider in its applications. “To ensure that the problems Its sunsetting provisions affected every identified by the Liberal Party in 1986 do piece of subordinate legislation which fell not emerge again the Commission within its definition. This included a vast considers that the above exemptions and amount of subordinate legislation extensions should only be available by administered by many departments and way of a regulation that is subject to which did not have any impact on tabling . . . ” business and industry. The sunsetting I notice that under the Statutory Instruments requirements imposed review Act 1992, and with the proposed requirements on all these agencies as amendments to this legislation, it will be well. subject to tabling and a disallowance, for However, the Regulatory Reform Act which I congratulate the Minister. The report 1986 was not intended to catch all continued— regulations. Regulations that amended “. . . and disallowance in the Legislative an Act or regulations that were made Assembly. This is the intention of Part 5 under ‘uniform’ agreements throughout Division 5 of clause 204 of the Australia were specifically exempted from Commission’s draft Bill.” the operation of that Act. I would like to read into Hansard the In addition, and most importantly as recommendations of EARC. I think that they it turned out, an Order in Council made are essential to this reform process. Under upon the recommendation of a Minister section 4.121, the commission’s report could also exempt any regulations from states— the operation of that Act.” “The Commission recommends that That is provided in section 4 (2) (c), to which the provisions of s. 4 (2) of the Regulatory we will make reference at the Committee Reform Act 1986 be redrafted.” stage. The report continues— The Opposition will be looking for those “That Act also provided for the revival provisions to be repealed, because they are of regulations repealed under it by a being extended under proposed new section Proclamation made by the Governor in 5. The recommendations continue— Council. Such Proclamations were supposed to be available only when it “(a) to make exemptions available only had been demonstrated that certain by way of regulation and only for expired regulations were: subordinate legislation that is substantially uniform or ‘(a) . . . necessary or desirable for the complementary with legislation of the peace, welfare and good Commonwealth or another State or government of Queensland . . . and Territory. (b) . . . impracticable in the (b) to allow a regulation to extend the circumstances to enact fresh effectiveness of subordinate legislation or subordinate legislation for a period not beyond legislation . . .’ ” one year after its sunset date on the Section 4.111 of the report states— grounds that: “The Commission notes that neither (i) replacement subordinate the exemption or revival processes, legislation is currently being achieved as they were through Order in drafted and will be made before Council or Proclamation respectively, the end of the extended period; or 14 October 1993 5262 Legislative Assembly

(ii) the subordinate legislation will Administrative Review, and the committee’s not be replaced when it expires report is due shortly. at the end of the extended For the benefit of honourable members, I period. will briefly outline the history of these (c) such a regulation should be tabled regulatory reforms. The need for a reduction in and open to disallowance in the the extent of regulatory activity affecting Legislative Assembly.” business became a major issue in the early The EARC report went on to say— eighties. Business organisations identified significant costs in complying with Government “To ensure that departments meet regulations at both State, Commonwealth and these new deadlines the Commission local levels. In Queensland, the then Bjelke- considers that the Office of the Petersen Government responded by Parliamentary Counsel should be establishing an inquiry into business required to formally notify an regulations and Government red tape. administering department when subordinate legislation will expire. This Honourable members might be interested notification should be provided six in the time frame of these matters. The months prior to the due date for member for Albert would be particularly expiration so that appropriate review interested in learning that, in a Courier-Mail processes can be established. The Office article of 22 September 1983, Joh Bjelke- of the Parliamentary Counsel will need to Petersen announced a major inquiry into establish some form of register of business regulations. However, nothing subordinate legislation to assist it in this happened about the matter until April work. This is the intention of Part 5 1985—well over one and a half years later. Division 5 s. 59 of clause 204 of the Not one step was taken. The Bjelke-Petersen Commission’s draft Bill.” Government said, “We are the champions of private enterprise. We are the champions of On that note, I will wrap it up. business in this State. We are the ones who Government members: Hear, hear! are behind business.” However, it did nothing Mr CONNOR: I accept the fact that this is for one and a half years, even though pretty dry stuff, but it forms the whole basis of business demanded of them that the our regulatory system. It has a severe impact regulations be changed. Then, in July 1985, on the business community. Although it is the Savage committee was established to get necessary for the running of the review of regulations under way. Government—and I am not for one moment The Savage committee concluded that, suggesting, and neither did the Savage within industry and within the community inquiry suggest that there should not be generally, there was an over-reliance on regulations and subordinate legislation, Government regulation to solve problems and because we do not want to run every little that this over-reliance was perpetuated by a piece of legislation through the House—in lack of identification of public policy objectives many cases it has dire consequences on and a lack of consideration of alternatives to business. On that basis, this scrutiny of regulation. It makes one ask: what was the regulations needs to be comprehensive and Bjelke-Petersen Government doing? What continuing. were the coalition Ministers and members Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) doing for 20 years, when industry and the (7.57 p.m.): It is with pleasure that I rise to community generally said, “You are support the Regulatory Reform Act hamstringing us with your regulation”? For Amendment Bill. The purpose of the years, the conservatives in this House were amendments proposed in this Bill is to extend locking up business through regulation or lack the Regulatory Reform Act 1986 to 31 of review. It is, therefore, most ironic to hear December 1994. The Act is due to expire, by members such as Mr Connor, the Leader of virtue of its sunset clause, on 31 December the Opposition, and the Leader of the Liberal this year. The operation of the Act is being Party say, “What would Labor know about extended to give the Government sufficient business?” time to consider the regulatory reform Mr Szczerbanik: They’ve got Paul measures contained in EARC’s report on Everingham bucketing the Small Business parliamentary committees. That report is Corporation. currently being considered by the Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: It is a problem when Parliamentary Committee for Electoral and the supposed—I use that word advisedly—party of business gets its State Legislative Assembly 5263 14 October 1993 president to bucket the business community. regularly, “You are taking everything into the The business community knows that this Premier’s Department. You are trying to particular Government, and the Brisbane City centralise everything in this State.” Yet, after a Council, are doing responsible things to review of the business regulations in this support business. Because of business State, the changes proposed for industry were support for the Government, Mr Everingham totally ignored by the Bjelke-Petersen and wants to belittle and criticise business in this coalition Governments and handled solely State. within the Premier’s Department. That The Savage committee recommended provides an example of the hypocrisy of the introduction of the Regulatory Reform Act, current members; they talk with forked tongue. and the recommendations subsequently The bleatings from Opposition members came into effect on 26 March 1986. The Act when they try unsuccessfully to criticise the had a number of objectives. Its first objective Goss Government are unfounded. That is why was to identify and repeal all unnecessary the business community does not believe State regulations. them, but it is why the business community There were rules sitting on the does come to functions to support the books—not needed, not used, and in some Government, because it has an openness to cases being an absolute hazard or industry. hindrance—and the Bjelke-Petersen and Because of limited resources and an Act coalition Governments did nothing about which proved to be inflexible, the them. A second objective of the Act was to administrative framework needed for identify and repeal—or replace—State successful regulatory review was never regulations which were inefficient, ineffective developed. The supposed white knights of or imposed undue costs on business. A third free enterprise could not even get this objective was to enhance the efficiency and regulatory reform off the ground. They had effectiveness of essential State regulations. wholesale exemptions which became the The final objective was to identify opportunities norm, and it was an absolute joke. Mr Connor for rationalisation of State and local regulatory spoke very well about that joke. His previous requirements. It must be noted that this Governments had to give massive exemptions Regulatory Reform Act applies only to because no administrative structure was in subordinate legislation and not to the Acts place to support proper regulatory reforms. themselves. Administrative responsibility for this Act The Regulatory Reform Act had two came into the portfolio of the Minister for major functions: firstly, to provide the review of Business, Industry and Regional Development all existing subordinate legislation on a rolling on 27 March 1992. It is interesting to note that program and, secondly, to provide for the the Goss Government has a structure sunsetting of all regulations after seven years whereby the Premier has faith in his Minister of operation. Provisions were made for the for Business, Industry and Regional essential regulations to be exempted from the Development. Previously, with coalition process. Governments, the Premier kept control of that Again, it is interesting to look at what the responsibility. However, our Premier has faith coalition Governments did in the operation of in the competence of his Ministers. He trusts that Act. Originally, the Bjelke-Petersen his Ministers and their legislative backbench Government intended that the review and committees to properly process this matter, revocation effort be undertaken by a joint and he has handed it over to the proper committee of Government and industry Minister. representatives. That would make sense. The Mr Budd interjected. so-called champion of private enterprise said, Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: If that ever “We will get out there with industry, and eventuated and members of the Opposition together we will tackle this problem.” What became members of the Government, I do happened? Nothing! The joint committee was not know whether Mr Connor would get the never convened by the National and Liberal DBIRD Ministry. However, if he did, I believe Party Governments. The task of review fell to that the Premier at the time would probably do the administrators of subordinate legislation as the honourable member suggested. and the Department of the Premier. I repeat that it fell to the Department of the Premier. The current Government’s policies in the lead-up to the 1989 election and evaluation of Does that ring a bell with the Leader of what we have done are summarised in the the Opposition, Mr Borbidge, and the Leader paper by the University of Technology of the Liberal Party, Mrs Sheldon? They say academic Peter Carroll. It is available for public 14 October 1993 5264 Legislative Assembly view if people want to see where we are I support the Bill. going. He summarises briefly by saying that Dr CLARK (Barron River) (8.09 p.m.): I there is still a fair way to go, but at least the am pleased to take part in this debate, procedures have been set up. When the because it raises some very fundamental reviews are under way and start to come questions about the role of regulation in through, they will have significant and long- achieving policy objectives—which is, after all, term benefits for business in this State. the issue under discussion. That is the In 1990, the current Government decided essence of what a good regulatory program is to undertake a systematic review of business about—finding the right way to achieve one’s legislation and regulation with the aim of policy objectives by the right kind of reducing the regulatory burden overall. This regulations that have the right effect. program, which is managed by the Business There is no question about the need for Regulation Review Unit of DBIRD, did not rely reform in this area. In 1986—that is some time on the processes of the Regulatory Reform ago, but they were the latest statistics of this Act. There are good reasons for that, including kind that I could obtain—in Australia it was the Government’s concern to get quick results estimated that the cost to the economy of from the review process. Of course, the business regulation was between $22 billion Regulatory Reform Act provisions apply only and $48 billion—9 per cent to 19 per cent of after a regulation has been operational for GDP. That really is an amazing amount. I am seven years, whereas the systematic review is quite sure that the amount in Queensland is scheduled for completion by 31 December very high. That is what is driving the present next year. This is a much better time frame Government with its reform agenda in that and will suit business in this State much area. better. Federal and State Governments have Another reason for not using the Act was been trying with varying success to develop that the Government recognised that the strategies to reduce that considerable burden. principal legislation imposed as significant, if While I will be talking more about the Business not greater, burdens as the subordinate Regulation Review Unit, it is interesting to note legislation. What is more, the processes in the that it already has some runs on the board Regulatory Reform Act were not up to the task with the reviews of regulations that it has been that the Government wanted done and were, carrying out in Queensland. In fact, the in any case, not provided for within the Department of Primary Industries claimed framework of public administration. The savings of some $235,000 to the Government systematic review has therefore been and $270,000 to business through the managed administratively through the Cabinet reforms that have already been achieved process. I know that my colleague Mr Budd through the work of the BRRU. will be speaking about some of the things that have happened in the systematic review, so I The member for Chermside gave a very will leave the details of that to him. comprehensive speech about the recent history of regulatory reform in Queensland. In conclusion—the EARC report on Some parts of that history were also described parliamentary committees made a number of by the member for Nerang, who I shall significant recommendations which relate to mention later. regulatory review and reform. When the PEARC report is available, the Government A Government member: Do you have will consider the issues in detail. The extension to? of the Regulatory Reform Act is required to Dr CLARK: I believe that I do have to enable that consideration to be given and for mention the member for Nerang, yes. As he appropriate reforms to be implemented. The said, that review process began with the Goss Labor Government, under the Minister Savage review in 1983. A very clear picture for Business, Industry and Regional has been painted of how dismal was the Development, Mr Jim Elder, does take failure of the reform process at that stage. business seriously. It does, through its Capital When we came to Government, it was quite Works Program, give the vast majority of work clear that that process had failed and that to the private sector where jobs need to be there was going to be a need to look again at created. We are listening to business people where we should go. It became quite clear to to hear what they need and what can be done us that one of the major flaws in the approach to make them more efficient. We care for this of the previous National Party Government State in terms of its economic growth and its was that it thought that it could achieve creation of jobs and wealth, which can then be everything by a piece of regulation. But, in distributed to all of its citizens. fact, it required more than just a piece of Legislative Assembly 5265 14 October 1993 regulation; it also required a very active the Business Regulation Review Unit. As I administrative strategy, and it needed some said, it is currently reviewing in excess of 400 unit within Government to coordinate the regulations and Acts that impact upon regulatory reform process to review what was business. More importantly, the reason that happening in the regulations. we are extending this particular piece of Mr Connor: That is what Savage legislation rather than revising it and totally recommended. reforming it is to enable the Government to take account of the EARC report—from which Dr CLARK: He did indeed recommend the honourable member for Nerang that. It was quite tragic that that particular quoted—and to take account of the recommendation was never implemented recommendations of the committee that I properly. That is part of the problem. It is a pity chair, namely, the Parliamentary Committee that the previous National Party Government for Electoral and Administrative Review. The did not recognise that we need to have both a Government was quite appropriately not pre- legislative and an administrative aspect if we empting the results of our committee’s are to come to grips with the regulatory reform deliberations, which will be before the process. Parliament shortly. In fact, I am able to tell the As I said, when we came Government we member that, tomorrow, I will be tabling the set up the Business Regulation Review Unit. A committee’s report. So the Government will considerable degree of success has already then be able to take account of all the been achieved through the work of that unit. relevant pieces of information that it needs to Regardless of what happens with this correctly and thoroughly prepare for itself a particular piece of legislation, we will need to strategy for continuing the regulatory reform continue to have that unit working as it does process in Queensland. with departments, skilling up their officers so Mr Connor: Eight years. that they know how to write good regulations and prepare regulatory impact statements. Mr Szczerbanik: You had 30 years. Those are not things that all officers in What did you do? departments know how to do. That is one of Dr CLARK: Precisely. I hardly think that the reasons that the current mess exists. the member for Nerang is in any position to be The Regulatory Reform Amendment Bill, critical. If he had had the answers, we would which members are debating tonight, is not have had 355 regulations exempted from another step in our strategy to ensure that the Regulatory Reform Act. The previous regulations are cost effective and used only National Party Government created a piece of when absolutely necessary. The Bill is legislation containing these monstrous essentially an interim measure to extend the loopholes that enabled pieces of legislation to seven-year sunsetting of regulations made simply exempt themselves from this Act. necessary by the fact that the Regulatory Mr Connor: He is not going to accept an Reform Act has, in itself, a clause for its own amendment to get rid of it. expiration on 31 December this year. Dr CLARK: No. The honourable member The passage of this Bill will allow time for does not seem to have understood how much careful consideration of the most appropriate this amendment actually improves the mix of legislation and administrative measures previous National Party Government’s to achieve regulatory reform. This Bill will allow legislation. With that legislation, not even a the Act to continue for another year. For the regulation was needed to exempt something member for Nerang to say that somehow the from the Act. At the very least, we have a Minister had been Sir Humphreyed by this situation in which we can disallow a regulation process displays an incredible degree of that would have the effect of exempting ignorance on his part. I imagine that it would something from this particular Act. also be quite insulting to the Minister. Mr Connor: For a time frame, yes, but Because we have 12 months within which to you still want the ability to examine it for ever. decide what should replace the present Regulatory Reform act, we have an Dr CLARK: Obviously, the honourable opportunity to look at the review of the Act member does not want to understand why we itself, which is currently being carried out by are introducing this legislation and what it will the Department of Business, Industry and achieve. Regional Development, because that is what Mrs Woodgate: The Jethro Tull of the is required under section 9 of the Act. Opposition. We have to assess the impact of the Dr CLARK: I cannot do better than that. systematic review that is being carried out by We have the opportunity to put together a 14 October 1993 5266 Legislative Assembly good piece of legislation. As Chair of our Once we reach that stage, that is when committee, I had the opportunity to go to we will start to talk about real reform. Those Victoria with the committee. We had the are the sorts of issues that the member for chance to speak with people in New South Nerang should have been discussing rather Wales. We also had a look at what the than the long treatise that he gave us, as it Commonwealth is doing. We are in a position were, just referring to aspects of the reform to learn from what is happening in other process. He is obsessed with this question States. We are also in a position to learn from about the exemptions to the Act. This reform what has happened here. I am quite sure that process is much wider than that, and the in Queensland, when we put all those member just does not seem to appreciate the experiences together, we will come up with a broader issues with which we are going to package that will achieve the ends that the have to come to grips. previous National Party Government was As I was saying before, the chairman of trying to achieve decades ago. the Regulation Review Committee also had One of the most interesting experiences some warnings for us in Queensland, and I that I had when I travelled with the committee think that they are important warnings, and was attending a conference of delegated ones that I hope our Government will listen to. legislation in Victoria. It was there that we had He states— the opportunity to meet with the Chair of the “. . . after 5 years of regular scrutiny of New South Wales Regulation Review regulations, we had the benefit of Committee. I have some interesting examining a large quantity of impact comments of his that I would like to share with statements prepared in connection with members. He can see the advantages of principal statutory rules. Many of these having a combined system of sunsetting and raised serious economic and regulatory impact statements. I shall say more environmental concerns. They were, about that later. He said— however, on subjects which at the outset “Based on information recently were obviously important or contentious. provided by the New South Wales But many of the mandatory impact Parliamentary Counsel, as at the first of statements were on straight forward July 1990, the date the Subordinate matters. The preparation of these RISs Legislation Act commenced, the total (Regulatory Impact Statements) were number of Statutory Rules in New South useless exercises in terms of what they Wales was 976 comprising 15,075 revealed. Few uncovered, as it were, pages.” unexpected or serious consequences Three years later, that figure was down to 832 from what was, on the face of things, a and 12 000 pages. He stated further— bland exercise of regulatory power. In “This is 144 Rules and 2,921 pages these cases there was no justification for less . . . a 15% reduction in rules and a the rigours and costs of a full impact 19% reduction in pages.” analysis. He went on to say— There may be a range of methods to gauge those cases that warrant a formal “These are of course only raw RIS. A way must be decided upon to limit figures. Are the regulations that remain RIS appraisal so that it focuses upon better? No one can say so with certainty. issues of real substance. We do not wish But we can say there has been to inspect every bag of every person greater consultation with the public in passing through customs.” their preparation than ever before.” There is a good lesson to be learned for That is something that I believe has to be us there. He is saying that we need regulatory achieved by regulation. He further stated— impact statements. As yet, we do not have “We can say that government them as a mandatory requirement in departments have for the first time been Queensland. The BRRU is doing an excellent required by law to examine and justify the job in ensuring that departments are using merits of their proposals with the those processes. Cabinet now requires that knowledge that their regulations will be the information is there. But it is not the subject of ongoing scrutiny by a mandatory yet; it is not transparent, and it parliamentary committee who will be needs to be. That is what we are moving objectively examining the costs and towards, but the lesson is there for us to benefits of what has been done.” learn—do not go overboard. We have to be very clever and find the balance between what Legislative Assembly 5267 14 October 1993

Victoria and New South Wales have done. comprehensive cost-benefit analysis. That is New South Wales admits that it has gone where we have to be sensible. overboard. I think that we have a chance to Mr Connor: That is where the define what regulations we really need to consultation comes in. scrutinise and ask ourselves, “What is it we need? Which regulations do we really need to Dr CLARK: That is what I just said. It have a regulatory impact statement for?” really is hard to get the point across to the member for Nerang. Victoria has used a criteria of appreciable cost burden. So we undertake a regulatory I conclude by giving a summary of where impact statement when we know that that we should be headed with our regulatory regulation is going to have a really significant reform process and what we really should be cost burden. trying to do. The point that I would like to make is that we are never going to get to the Mr Connor: What determines that? point of improving the situation if we continue Dr CLARK: That is an interesting to see regulations as something that gets question. tagged on to the end of a piece of legislation. Mr Connor: The bureaucrats? We have to be aware that good regulations start at the policy end and that, if we are to Dr CLARK: What will happen is that we have good policy, when we develop the policy will make a decision about that. We will we think about how we are going to consult. We will be able to have the implement that and how we are going to benefit—— administer it. That is when we will really make Mr Connor interjected. the good decisions about what kind of Dr CLARK: The member should let me regulation we need. We will make the right finish. We will have the benefit of the decisions about what kind of impact analysis consultation and input that we receive from we need. Indeed, when we are still at that business. We will then prepare that regulatory policy end of the process, we may decide that impact statement. It will come to the we do not need those regulations because parliamentary committee for scrutiny and then there are other ways of doing things and other it will be judged by the political process. That is ways of achieving that policy. I am the way it should be, because if the member disappointed in the member for Nerang is going to say—— because he never showed us that he really understands what is required under regulatory Mr Connor: Every regulation has to go reform. It is no good waving those bits of through the process. paper around. He had his opportunity. Instead Dr CLARK: Let me ask the member: who of just focusing on such narrow areas and should make that decision? He says that he is chiding us for somehow pulling the wool over not happy with the bureaucrats making the everybody’s eyes, why did he not explain and decision. Tell me: who is going to exercise that demonstrate that he understood what is discretion? required? Again, the Opposition disappoints Mr Connor: What I am saying is this: if me. I support the Bill. you are going to have impact statements, you Mr BUDD (Redlands) (8.28 p.m.): should have them on the lot. Honourable members, I was very pleased Dr CLARK: We should have them on the when we came into this House and saw, up lot? All right, that is a very interesting. until a couple of minutes ago, five of the champions of small business present. We had Mr Connor: You can have different the member for Noosa and the member for levels, but you should have them on the lot. Caloundra at the back of the Chamber trying Dr CLARK: We should certainly have a to shore up some figures. We had the statement for each piece of regulation setting member for Mooloolah and the member for out what it is going to achieve, what its objects Moggill getting some advice from Mrs Bird are and whether we have compared that with about how to get their numbers up, and we the alternative of not doing anything at all. had Mr Santoro lurking in the shadows Every piece of subordinate legislation should somewhere. The only person from the Liberal have an explanatory memorandum that Party—the champion of small business!—who provides that information, so we will know that deemed it fitting enough to speak on this Bill basic information for each regulation. That is was the member for Nerang. I wonder why? Is important. However, I am saying that we have it because members of the Liberal Party really to be careful how we make those decisions believe that this reform amendment legislation about regulations as to when we undertake a is an exceptional piece of legislation, or is it 14 October 1993 5268 Legislative Assembly that they are too thick to understand it? I think However, I will give three small examples that it might be the latter. to illustrate the diversity of issues that were Mr FitzGerald: Tell us what you know considered by the unit during the year. I about it. mention one case of a small business in north Queensland that raised an issue of Mr BUDD: The member should keep it applications for permits for commercial up. I do not have a prepared speech, just a photographic activities in national parks. This few notes. For the benefit of the member for led to a reassessment and redesign of Nerang, I will try to be very brief, but I will application and permit forms for commercial speak slowly and then he might be able to get photography in national parks. Another case it through his head. Time and time again, he concerned an identified problem with the interjected on the member for Chermside and interpretation of fire safety requirements of the the member for Barron River and asked what Building Code of Australia. A small business we had done in four years. I will tell the was able to save a possible $200,000 in the member what this Government has done in construction cost of a new factory building. four years. It has been working to improve the This was a valuable exercise, as it revealed business operating environment through a that it is possible to administer a regime with number of innovative approaches which flexibility and still achieve the required complement its direct industries assistance outcomes. The final case to which I will refer packages. In addition, the measures have concerns negotiations among a number of been taken within the Government’s businesses and the Queensland Building commitment to keep Queensland the low-tax Services Authority. Licensing issues were able State and contribute to the development of to be facilitated. One builder was able to save the economy. By freeing up the environment contracts to the value of $160,000 and three in which business operates, the cost of doing jobs as a result of the involvement of the business will be lower. Does the member for Business Regulation Review Unit. Discussions Nerang understand that? Costs will be lower, are still continuing on a number of other and that will result in more jobs for issues, including training requirements for a Queenslanders, better profit for business, thus franchisor that has the potential to increase making Queensland more attractive to revenue for the business by $1m. business. It will also ensure lower prices for consumers. I inform the member for Nerang that the Government has in the past four years also One of the things that this Government introduced the mutual recognition principle, did do in 1990 was to set up the Business which will give Queensland businesses better Regulation Review Unit. Part of the charter of access to markets in the rest of Australia, as that Business Regulation Review Unit was well as harmonising regulatory requirements that, in April 1992, the Queensland across State borders. In 1990, we also Government endorsed the processes for the introduced the Queensland Business Licence systematic review of business legislation and Information Centre, which provided a one-stop regulations. It said that 470 Acts and shop for business to find out about the regulations affecting business should be Queensland Government’s licensing reviewed by December 1994. So far the unit requirements. In 1992, the system was has reviewed 81 Acts. Forty-three Acts have extended to include Commonwealth licences. been repealed. There are still 261 reviews in This service significantly reduces the time progress and 28 reviews yet to commence. business people spend on determining the When it was established, one of the regulatory requirements with which they must components of the charter of the Business comply. Regulation Review Unit was to investigate complaints about regulations. In the first The launch by the Minister for Business, reporting period from March 1991 to June Industry and Regional Development of 1992, the Business Regulation Review Unit GOBIS—a centralised telephone service developed an awareness program, which whose operators are able to automatically included a major advertising campaign in the access database information on all the daily and trade media. As part of its support services available from the procedures for investigating complaints about Queensland Government and key Federal regulatory requirements, the BRRU Government authorities. undertakes to protect its clients’ confidentiality. Mr T. B. Sullivan: How has all this been This commitment to confidentiality prevents accepted by the business community? detailed reporting of cases or identification of Mr BUDD: Very well. There have been no outcomes. problems whatsoever. We have to try to Legislative Assembly 5269 14 October 1993 convince the people on the other side of the The member for Barron River, in her role House—the champions of small business— as Chair of PEARC, has a very clear that it is working, and working well. Information understanding of the role of regulations and is made available from GOBIS to the caller subordinate legislation and has adopted a immediately, with the option of an information very sensible approach. She presented package containing relevant details being sensible ideas on ways to deal with mailed out within 24 hours. The information regulations. I eagerly anticipate the available includes training, research and committee’s report that I understand will be development, advisory services, business tabled in the very near future, because I recognition of quality assurance, and finance. expect to see in that report some very clear For the first time in Australia, there is one point initiatives for Government and probably lateral in Government for business to deal with when and visionary—if I can use those terms when it is looking for support services. talking of regulatory reform—approaches to Another important initiative that the dealing with regulation and subordinate Government made was through the legislation. Queensland Small Business Corporation. The Mr Connor: You are stretching the Government offers a range of services to English language now. business intenders. These services are Mr ELDER: It is a dry matter, that is true. designed to assist people starting in business The member for Redlands did show how, by by giving them access to training and advice. having a commitment to reform in this area, it The Government also receives information is possible to improve the business about the issues of concern to small business environment. He also demonstrated his operators through the network of the Small knowledge of the other activities that are the Business Corporation offices throughout responsibility of the Business portfolio. It has Queensland. been improving the environment for In conclusion, the regulatory reform conducting business in this State. Since the initiatives instituted by this Government are an establishment of the Business Regulation important contribution to the improvement of Review Unit, we have worked tirelessly to the business operating environment. move that review process forward—to work at Extending the life of the Regulatory Reform dealing with reviewing every existing piece of Act will provide the Government with sufficient legislation and regulation. In terms of that time to consider the major reform initiatives review, I commend the unit for the work it has which have been proposed by EARC. This done so far. A further initiative that we have time is necessary so that the right policies can taken to assist the business community is be implemented within the context of the supporting the Queensland Confederation of achievements already delivered to date. I Industry, the Metal Trades Industry support the Bill before the House. Association and the State Chamber of Hon. J. P. ELDER (Capalaba— Minister Commerce with funding for business liaison for Business, Industry and Regional officers who assist them in that task of Development) (8.36 p.m.), in reply: I thank the business review. In other words, that is a pro- members of my committee, the member for active measure taken by this Government to Chermside, the member for Barron River and assist business in dealing with the review member for Redlands. This is a fairly small process. amendment, technical in nature, to continue I am disappointed with the member for the regulatory reform agenda in terms of its Nerang. Apart from giving us a history of legislative cover in this State. Each of those EARC and its report, which we have all read, members gave a comprehensive view of as he would well know, his only other regulatory reform—the member for Chermside contribution was to stick it into public servants. in terms of its history and a very apt and As Minister responsible for the Department of pertinent description of the role that the Business, Industry and Regional previous Government played in terms of Development, I found his remarks quite regulatory reform in this State. It is one of insulting. That group of people of whom he which there should be a deal of criticism, was speaking are those who have been because there was considerable inaction over committed to the regulatory process—those a number of years. Certainly the Savage who have been committed to tirelessly working report was brought down; however, very little through and resolving the problems caused by in the way of in regulatory reform was done in his party’s actions in the past. A number of that time. speakers pointed out that when the Regulatory Reform Act came into being, within the first three years—and those were under 14 October 1993 5270 Legislative Assembly the previous administration—there were 350 will move an amendment that gives general exemptions. If ever one wished to see a powers to make regulations under the Act. demonstration of the coalition’s commitment This clause is a technical amendment to make to regulatory reform, it is clear from those the legislation uniform. However, the drafters numbers. of the amendment did not consider the fact Mr Connor: You haven’t changed that there was no general power of making anything. regulations. The coalition will move an amendment to that. I believe that the Minister Mr ELDER: It is not a matter of changing will move the same amendment. There is anything. As the member for Barron River so overall support there. aptly put it, it is a matter of being committed to the process and getting it right. That is what I reiterate what EARC had to say about the Government has been doing—getting the clause 4 (2) (c). That clause is the overall get- system right, reviewing the system and then out for the bureaucracy so that it can exempt putting in place processes and mechanisms regulations from the sunset clause that deal with regulatory reform and requirements. Clause 6 of the Bill states— arrangements in this State. The amending Bill “The Governor in council may, by is purely to ensure that that process, as the regulation, defer the expiry of subordinate honourable member quite rightly outlined, is legislation under section 5 for a specified kept in train. It is not new legislation that was period.” introduced for an improper motive. The Bill is Although the Minister said that the Bill was an to ensure that the work that has been academic exercise to allow the Act to extend undertaken by EARC and PEARC is not pre- for a year to allow for the PEARC empted. I thank all members for their recommendations to be considered, the Bill contributions. I commend the Bill to the does make a change. It provides an additional House. get-out for the bureaucracy—an additional Motion agreed to. way of exempting regulations from sunset clauses. That goes directly against the recommendations of EARC and directly Committee against the interests of the business Hon. J. P. Elder (Capalaba—Minister for community. Business, Industry and Regional I propose to amend that clause by Development) in charge of the Bill. removing clause 4 (2) (c) altogether. That will Clauses 1 to 3, as read, agreed to. mean that, if the bureaucracy wants to Clause 4— exempt regulations, it must use the new clause 6, which the coalition will not oppose, Mr CONNOR (8.43 p.m.): I move the because it is moving in the right general following amendment— direction. However, we support that only if “At page 4, lines 15 to 17— clause 4 (2) (c) is removed from the Bill. omit, insert— Earlier, when I spoke to the Minister, he said that he will not accept that amendment on ‘Amendment of s.4 (Application of Act) technical grounds. I do not fully understand ‘4. Section 4 (2) (c)— that. I hope that he will explain to me in detail omit.’.” why he is not prepared to accept my amendment. In the EARC report, the section that this clause amends came under a great deal of Mr ELDER: The honourable member criticism. Section 4 (2) (c) of the Act states— again criticised the bureaucracy. I find it offensive. Let us make it perfectly clear—I “This Act applies to all subordinate have determined the way in which this legislation, except where it is otherwise amending Bill is passed. In seeing that the expressly prescribed. regulatory reform agenda continues in the . . . State and in ensuring that reports that are (c) subordinate legislation that is being considered will be dealt with, the one exempted from the application of this Act overriding consideration that I have had at all by Order in Council, made upon the times was not to, as a Minister, pre-empt the recommendation of the Minister.” findings of PEARC in terms of EARC’s review. In terms of the Regulatory Reform Act—the Clause 4 of the Bill is a technical amendment amendment applies basically to business that will amend the “by Order in Council” regulation. From time to time, myriad provision to become “by regulation”. Later, I regulations will come through that do not Legislative Assembly 5271 14 October 1993 impact on business, and the exemption can not comply because, in many cases, they did be used for that purpose. not know that the regulations existed, and no We are not talking about the never-never; process existed by which the Government we are talking about 12 months. The could ensure that there was full compliance. extension allows umbrella coverage for those With the age of computers, regulations to stay in place. Then we can take circumstances have changed. Now, the on board whatever broader recommendations business community complies with the come from PEARC on regulatory reform regulations. Because of the ability of the across-the-board. That is the reason. It is a bureaucracy to know who is complying and fairly straightforward, simple reason, which I who is not, the business community is starting explained at some length to the honourable to buckle under the weight. That brought member earlier in the day. about the necessity for business regulations to In terms of the Act itself—it is no good be reviewed. In 1985, Savage determined closing the stable door after the horse has that to be the case. At least in 1986 an bolted. The Act was in place during the attempt was made to put in place a Opposition’s time in Government. I am aware systematic review process so that a seven- that it was abused to the extent of 350 year sunset clause applied to regulations. exemptions. From time to time, there will be a However, 355 regulations have been need for exemptions that are not business exempted, and the Minister informs me that related. The provision is purely there to assist an additional nine must be added to that list. I in that carriage. As I said previously, I will not hope that, when the Minister responds, he will accept the amendment. inform me that many of the 355 regulations that were exempted no longer exist. I certainly Mr CONNOR: I put the question to the hope that that is the case. Minister: how many exemptions are there now? The Minister commented that the We need a systematic approach. I hope previous Government allowed 355. that the Minister will at least commit—— Mr ELDER: It may surprise the Mr De Lacy: You people are always honourable member that I did not leap to his calling for new regulations. expectations in terms of numbers. I have Mr CONNOR: I accept that the made no more than nine. Treasurer’s comment holds true in certain Mr CONNOR: So we now have 364, or circumstances. However, we have to lessen have the original 355 been removed? What the overall regulatory impact on businesses, we are talking about here is academic. We are otherwise they will not survive. not moving in the right direction. We are A Government member: Why didn’t you moving in the opposite direction to what EARC do it? had to say. I have no doubt that we are going Mr ELDER: An appropriate comment was through ad hoc reviews of those regulations. just made by one of my colleagues—“When On the surface, the Minister seems to have a you were in Government, why didn’t you do commitment towards removing those it?” Quite simply, it all comes back to a regulations. I commend the Minister for that. I commitment to the business community. The have no problems with that. However, I remind business community in this State certainly the Minister that QBLIC was initiated by the knows who has their interests at heart. We are previous Government and was put in place talking about a very technical amendment that just after the change of Government early in does not change the nature of the Act and will 1990. Because much of the regulation that not change the nature of the beast in the long requires these licences is now computerised, term. I can inform the member that one of the there is a much greater level of compliance. nine regulations that were exempted was the The regulatory process is spreading far more Queensland museum by-laws. I am not sure into the community and people are being what impact that had on business. required more and more to comply. It is necessary to move certain In the early eighties, after I had been in regulations of a non-business nature through business for 10 years and when I started an the system. As to the 355 regulations that involvement with the Small Business were exempted—the majority of them still Association, I noticed the myriad regulations exist. However, the review process is in place. that existed. At that time, I said that if at any We do not intend to pre-empt the findings of stage the business community had to fully the PEARC. I believe that it is an appropriate comply with all of those regulations, there course of action to amend the Act to at least would be no business community left. In the ensure that the regulatory review process is in past, members of the business community did 14 October 1993 5272 Legislative Assembly train and that it remains so until December ‘8. The Governor in Council may 1994. When the PEARC report comes on make regulations for the purposes of this board, the Parliament as a whole will consider Act. its recommendations. If a decision is taken to move to a broader regulatory arrangement, ‘Expiry of Act well and good. ‘8A. This Act expires on 31 The business community is well aware of December 1994.’.” my commitment to regulation and licence The amendment is of a technical nature reduction. I have demonstrated consistently and in no way conflicts with or detracts from during my 12 months as Minister that we are the overall objectives of the Act, or the Bill prepared to take hard decisions on behalf of before the Committee. The purpose of the the business community and assist it by amendment is to place the power of the removing outmoded and unnecessary Governor in Council to make regulations under regulations. We made a commitment to do the particular Act. The Opposition has that, and we have done it. As the Treasurer accepted that proposition. said, the member cannot have two bob each Mr CONNOR: I wish to highlight how this way. On one hand, the member says that we amendment came about. It is an amendment are not going fast enough; on the other hand, identical to an amendment proposed by the he says that our reforms are too fast. Give us Opposition. When the Parliamentary Counsel a break! If the member intends to comment was drafting the Bill, a technical amendment on these issues, he should at least be of section 4 (2) (c) was required through consistent. He should also realise that this clause 4 to attempt to make the legislation legislation has at heart the best interests of the business community of this State. uniform. The amendment sought to ensure that, rather than the exemption be “by Order Question—That the words proposed to in Council, made upon the recommendation be omitted stand part of the clause—put; and of the Minister”, it be “by regulation”. However, the Committee divided— consideration was not given to the fact that AYES, 45—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, the Act had no overall power to make Braddy, Bredhauer, Budd, Campbell, Casey, Clark, regulations. D’Arcy, Davies, De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, Elder, If this matter had not been brought to the Fenlon, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hayward, Hollis, Government’s attention, the Regulatory Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, Milliner, Nunn, Reform Act would have ceased to have power Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Power, Purcell, to be able to make regulations—or it could Robertson, Rose, Smith, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. potentially be argued in a court that it would B., Szczerbanik, Vaughan, Warner, Welford, Wells, not have power to make regulations at least Woodgate, Tellers: Pitt, Livingstone under section 4 (2) (c), which does not provide NOES, 29—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, overall power to make regulations. I add that Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gilmore, Goss J. N., clause 6 would still probably have the ability to Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lingard, make regulations. Littleproud, McCauley, Mitchell, Perrett, Rowell, In hindsight, I should not have taken the Santoro, Simpson, Stephan, Stoneman, Turner, matter up with the Parliamentary Counsel; I Veivers, Watson Tellers: Springborg, Laming would have achieved my aim of getting rid of Resolved in the affirmative. section 4 (2) (c) via the back door, because Clause 4, as read, agreed to. there would have been no overall power to make regulations. However, to keep the Act in Clauses 5 to 7, as read, agreed to. line and to be consistent with the overall Clause 8— legislative program, the Opposition will accept Mr ELDER (9.02 p.m.): I move the the amendment, seeing we were going to following amendment— move the same amendment. “At page 5, lines 18 to 22— Amendment agreed to. omit clause, insert Clause 8, as amended, agreed to. ‘Replacement of ss. 7 and 8 Bill reported, with an amendment. ‘8. Sections 7 and 8— omit, insert— Third Reading ‘Regulations Bill, on motion of Mr Elder, by leave, read a third time. Legislative Assembly 5273 14 October 1993

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (SHIRE OF Australian Centre for Local Government COOLOOLA) REGULATION 1993 Studies at the University of Canberra, has (SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION 1993, No. always contended that “big is not necessarily 373) beautiful” in local government and that there is Disallowance of Regulation a point beyond which economies of scale do not apply. Mrs McCAULEY (Callide) (9.07 p.m.): I move— The other point that Mr McCarthy made was— “That Local Government (Shire of Cooloola) Regulation 1993 (Subordinate “If councils were bigger, election Legislation 1993, No. 373) tabled in the campaigns might become more Parliament on 12 October 1993, be expensive and political parties might disallowed.” become the only participants. Grassroots politics would be forgotten in the pursuit The reason for moving a disallowance to of office.” the Regulations to form a new Shire of Cooloola by amalgamating the Shires of Dare I say that Mr McCarthy hit the nail on the Gympie and Widgee is to send a loud and head—that is the Labor Party’s agenda in a clear message to the Goss Labor Government nutshell. How many times have we sat in this that we in Opposition do not support forced place and listened to Tom Burns and others in amalgamations of local authorities. We Opposition talk about local government being believe very strongly that such moves should a breeding ground for National Party people. come from the ratepayers themselves, and Mr Beattie: Which is true. not be imposed from above by a Government Mrs McCAULEY: The honourable with a hidden political agenda. member confirms what his colleagues used to The member for Whitsunday queried this say when they were in Opposition. whole external boundaries review business in When Greg Hoffman made his a very terse letter to Matt Foley in December preliminary report to the Gympie and Widgee 1991, when he was chairman of PEARC. She councils recommending amalgamation, he stated— spoke of “traumatic experiences”, the “gut- “The bona fides for reviewing the wrenching nature” of the review and external boundaries of local authorities in “contentious moments”—emotive language for Queensland do not reside with the what has obviously been a fairly stressful Fitzgerald report. On what grounds are experience for the commissioner, who has we pursuing the matter?” previously been local government’s fair-haired She went on to state— boy. This was the easy one. This was the amalgamation which the councils decided to “Surely the grounds for undertaking go along with—to lie back and enjoy it. Things major changes to a form of Government only got more difficult. I wonder how the much closer to people than is our commissioner feels now after being mauled by Government should have struck Woocoo and condemned by Gooburrum, someone in authority as a task of great Rosenthal, Allora and the Pioneer Shire. Dr political sensitivity.” Michael Jones has called the Local Unfortunately, neither Tom Burns nor Matt Government Commissioner’s Office “a Foley were former representatives of local potential monster”. Gooburrum Shire government and so had little or no Chairman, Councillor Bill Newbecker said— understanding of the ethos of local “It would seem to me that Mr government or how local communities feel Hoffman’s conclusions are purely an about that third tier of government. exercise in fiction.” A few months after Mrs Bird wrote her Woongarra Shire Councillor Maurice Chapman strongly worded letter, local government said— reporter on the Courier-Mail, John McCarthy, described the recommendations as “electoral “He has not demonstrated real dynamite” which “could inflict some heavy impartiality.” wounds”. McCarthy made two interesting Councillor Newbecker again said— points—firstly, if amalgamations were being “If that’s the best Mr Hoffman can mooted because of an economy of scale do, I am confused, bewildered and argument, then Brisbane—Australia’s largest mighty angry.” council—should have the country’s cheapest rates. Dr Michael Jones, former director of the In a newsletter, the Woocoo Shire Council said— 14 October 1993 5274 Legislative Assembly

“The Commissioner has maliciously In the 1986 census, population trends and mischievously claimed that the Shire showed that over 540 000 people in is headed for insolvency.” Queensland were living in rural areas or towns In a Pioneer Shire Council submission, it was with fewer than 1 000 people. Many others said— were living in small country towns. It is those people and towns that will lose most from “As there has been no need amalgamation. Small communities such as established for a change in boundaries Allora will be deader than they were in the between Mackay City and Pioneer Shire, 1880s, when the railway passed them by. why therefore is there such a Incidentally, as a student of history I was determination from the Office of the Local interested to read that the railway line stopped Government Commissioner for change, four miles from Allora simply through a simply for change sake?” bureaucratic bungle, and it was nearly 10 Friends of Allora’s Debbie Smith said— years before that extra four miles of railway “Mr Hoffman is looking at a crystal line to Allora was provided. ball that he hasn’t even got.” Mr Springborg: And this Government And finally, Rosenthal’s Jim Mitchell said— closed it down. “He’s taken no notice of anything Mrs McCAULEY: Is that right? Shame! we’ve said. We’ve had meetings and Mr Mackenroth: Belmont council where I public submissions and it’s an utter waste live at Carina—in 1925, Brisbane took it over of time.” and they closed down the railway line then. These amalgamations have been Mr FitzGerald: You had a Labor recommended without any cost-benefit Government in power then, didn’t you? analysis being done and without asking for Mrs McCAULEY: That is right. In 1990, ratepayers’ views by way of referendum. The the average population size of a local Opposition believes very strongly that both of authority in Queensland was 21 692—above those operations are a prerequisite for the Australian average of 20 148. Queensland amalgamations of local authorities. local authorities have almost twice the Many factors must be considered in average population of local units in South looking at amalgamations. Size alone is not a Australia and Western Australia. Throughout good criterion. The quality of representatives, the world, with the exception only of the the competence of management and the United Kingdom, small local authorities are the history, geography, economics, sociology and norm. In 1989, 74.6 per cent of the even personalities all must be considered. Queensland population lived in 21 of the local Michael Jones sees local government in terms units in the State. About a quarter of the of three key values, namely, liberty, State’s population lived in the remaining 113 participation and efficiency—liberty, because authorities. That rather lopsided proportion is local government disperses power and is a about to become even more uneven with buffer against a powerful State; participation, more of the population living in fewer local because local government provides an authorities. extension of choice for people, apart from the Some of the reasons given for proposed narrow party system of the State Government; amalgamations have included the community and efficiency, because local government of interest, urban overspill, financial stress and promotes competition and experimentation. It matters like that. I find the community of is diverse and responsive. interest reason rather interesting. As I have In 1989, the Sydney City Council was travelled throughout the State, it has become dismantled from a council with over 80 000 quite apparent that there are some local people into a small central city local authority authorities that live side by side and provide with fewer than 10 000 residents and an area the same sorts of services to the same sorts of six square kilometres. A few years ago, six of people but are simply not compatible. They large local authorities in the Northern Territory do not have a community of interest. Perhaps were made into 60—all for a total population they should, because they are rural shires that of only about 70 000 people. This was to provide the same interests. One example that involve Aboriginal communities more. Why is I can think of is in the area where I grew up, this strategy and reasoning different from that namely, Wondai and Murgon. If Murgon said involved with small shires such as Rosenthal that something was black, Wondai would say or Gooburrum? Is it because the people are that it was white. They would never agree on white and not black? How will those people be anything. Another example is Rosenthal and involved when amalgamation proceeds? Warwick. There are communities like that right Legislative Assembly 5275 14 October 1993 throughout Queensland. To say that they Mr Mackenroth: My mother does that. should be amalgamated in the interests of Mrs McCAULEY: That was a big error. It community of interest is a nonsense because should have been called Gympie. That historic it simply will not work. name has a lot of importance in the history of Urban overspill was another reason put the State. If people say, “I come from the forward in many of the provincial city areas Cooloola Shire”, we will not even know where it that are being considered for amalgamation. is. In the Cairns, Bundaberg, Warwick and Mr Ardill: It was called Nashville. Mackay areas, urban overspill was put forward as a reason for amalgamation. In each case, Mrs McCAULEY: I think Gympie is a that reason was adequately answered by better name. At least it is Australian. shires, such as the Pioneer Shire, in the Obviously, it was named after James Nash, submissions that they put forward; there was but we have another Nashville. It is important, always enough room for them to expand and I think that it was unfortunate that the without taking over shires such as Mulgrave commissioner went along with the name and Pioneer or, in the case of Bundaberg, Cooloola because that name does not mean Woongarra and Gooburrum. So that reason anything to anybody. It is really not a place was proved to be incorrect. name that people can say, “That means something to me”. Financial stress was not a major factor. In fact, there is only one shire that I know of that A Government member interjected. has ever gone broke in Queensland. I think Mrs McCAULEY: It is not. that was Burketown. Local authorities A Government member interjected. throughout the State impress me with their low level of debt and their keenness to be debt Mrs McCAULEY: That is not the point free. A lot of councils will proudly say to me, that I want to make. The Opposition is strongly “We are debt free” or “We will be debt free” in opposed to these—— five years, four years, six years or whatever. Mr Mackenroth: Cabinet supports the They are all working along that same line. So name Gympie. financial stress is not a major factor in Mrs McCAULEY: But that is not going to amalgamation, either. It may well be if rural do any good, though, because it is not going people find that their rates go up considerably. to be called Gympie. I would simply like to say They will be financially stressed if they are that the Opposition strongly opposes forced into amalgamations that will mean that amalgamation for the sake of they have to pay a great deal more in rates. amalgamation—for the sake of bigger local I reiterate that, on return to Government, authorities. The Opposition feels that this is the Opposition will set in place a process for entirely the wrong track to be going down. It de-amalgamation, so that any shires that feel does not favour it, it is not going to support it they have a case to go it alone and to be and, in fact, it will consider the process for separated will be able to go through that deamalgamation when it returns to process and put their case. It will happen if Government in this State. they so desire. I favour joint working Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (9.22 p.m.): Mr arrangements. It seems to me that in many Deputy Speaker—— cases, such as Pioneer, Mackay, Mulgrave, Cairns and even Gympie and Widgee, the Mr Mackenroth: Cooloola. case for joint working arrangements was made Mr STEPHAN: I am pleased to stand very satisfactorily. With a bit of commonsense here as the elected member for Gympie. To and cooperation, joint working arrangements say that any change in name has to be would provide the best of all possible worlds referred to the commissioner, I say, “Why for most people. That would mean that the does a name change have to go back to the local authorities concerned would not lose commissioner?” Who is in control of this their individual personalities, which is important place? for people in those communities. This Mrs Edmond: Not you. Government has not understood properly that those communities place great pride in the Mr STEPHAN: I am in Opposition at the fact that they are such and such a shire. They present time. However, although members of do not particularly want to be such and such Cabinet have been elected to electorates the another shire, particularly if they come from an names of which will stay the same, they are area with an historic name such as Gympie. I turning around and saying that a change in can understand people who no longer want to name has to be referred to the commissioner. live in an area called Cooloola. In much the same way as everything else, it 14 October 1993 5276 Legislative Assembly has to be referred to the commissioner. The people to give the new council an indication of Minister is not standing up for what he is which name they want for the local authority. planning to do. Where is the recipe that he is Unfortunately, the Premier was unable to following? Who is giving the directions if the accede to that request. A referendum Minister is going to say to Mr Hoffman, or to provides the locals with an opportunity to have any other appointed person, “You can do their say. However, for some reason or other, what you like. You make the the Government is frightened to take that recommendations and we will follow: yes sir, step. I am not just too sure what that reason no sir, three bags full sir”? That is basically is. what the Minister is doing. There is a lot of confusion about the I do not know of an issue that has been place name. An article in the Gympie Times more divisive than this issue of amalgamation. stated— It could be overcome if the Government had “Queensland Premier Wayne Goss enough sense to hold a referendum on it. has quashed moves to hold a After all, the Minister has not answered any referendum in conjunction with elections questions that have been asked of him from for the new Cooloola Shire Council. time to time about this issue, and nor has he asked any of Mr Hoffman. A lot of the queries Mr Goss . . . rejected Gympie City relate to what the rate base is going to be and Council’s request to conduct a poll on how the representation will be organised. The November 27.” issue of the rate base needs to be addressed The article went on to state— very quickly. We have two very distinct rate “It would have been a golden bases in those areas. They are both based on opportunity for the people to give the new much the same valuations. Gympie City is on council an indication of what they wanted. a rate base of about 5c in the dollar, yet Whether they wanted the name to stay Widgee Shire is on a rate base of about 2c the way it is or wanted it changed. cents in the dollar. If the Government is going to amalgamate them then this problem will Mr Goss . . . denied the request have to be looked at. because the Government had decided to follow the recommendations of Local I second the motion moved by the Government Commissioner Greg member for Callide. Hoffman on issues regarding Mr Beattie: Get to the real issues. amalgamation. Mr STEPHAN: I have told the member, He said if he allowed Gympie’s but he has not been listening to what I have request, it would open the flood gates for said. If two houses are situated beside each other councils wanting changes.” other, and one has a rate base of 2c in the Would not that be shocking if the dollar and the other a rate base of 5c in the Government gave the other councils an dollar—would the member not consider that a opportunity to have a say in what is going on! real problem? Would he not be concerned What a catastrophe that would be! It would about whether those ratepayers were being open the floodgates for them to have a say, treated fairly? Would the member be prepared to have input into what is going on. to go along with that situation for 50-odd years? Mr Springborg: That would be democracy. We couldn’t have that! Mr Beattie: You don’t have to. You’ve got differential rating. Mr STEPHAN: That would be democracy, and that is not the way this Government is Mr STEPHAN: That has not been spelt heading. The article stated further— out. “In a letter tabled in Gympie City Mr Welford: It is so. Council . . . Mr Goss said: ‘a review at this Mr STEPHAN: That has not been spelt stage would not be desirable.’ out. The Minister has ducked for cover. He ‘It will not be possible to hold a has not been answering the questions. All he referendum on the day of the has been doing is trying to guide an unguided forthcoming elections as a process has missile in that appointed commissioner. As to already been agreed upon to accept the giving the locals a say in what is going to Commissioners report, not only on happen—last week Mayor Joan Dodt led a Gympie-Widgee, but also a number of deputation to the Premier, Mr Goss, to discuss other councils throughout Queensland,’ the possibility of holding a poll in conjunction he said. with the election of 27 November to allow the Legislative Assembly 5277 14 October 1993

‘It would be inappropriate to interfere election. At practically every meeting he with that process now. attended, Mr Brown stated that he favoured ‘As you have previously been the amalgamation of the Gympie and Widgee advised by the Minister for Local Shire Councils. Where is Mr Brown at the Government, Mr Mackenroth, State moment? He is trying to get back into council. Cabinet had discussed retaining the That is an indication of the people’s thoughts name Gympie and retention of the name on this issue. was the preferred view of Cabinet. Mr J. H. Sullivan: How is he going to go? ‘I wish to stress that I will be happy to Is he trying to get back in? take a reference to the Commissioner Mr Beattie: Will he win? should a new council decided to put that Mr STEPHAN: It will require a big change suggestion to me.’ ” in the decision that was made two and three- Again, the words are “take it to the quarter years ago. commissioner”. How long is the commissioner Time expired. going to have the overriding authority over the elected councils and over the areas for which Mr CAMPBELL (Bundaberg) (9.30 p.m.): the councils have always been responsible? I Tonight, the Opposition has moved that the would have thought that they would have Local Government (Shire of Cooloola) always been answerable to the electors. But, Regulation 1993 be disallowed. The mover of no, the commissioner is the one who is in the motion, the member for Callide, and the control. Apparently, he is the person who is member for Gympie—perhaps that should be making all the decisions, and the rest of the Widgee or Cooloola—seconded the motion. world can just roll by. Those honourable members said that they oppose this motion because the ratepayers As to the title of chairman or should have their say. Members opposite are mayor—there is confusion in that the State hypocrites when they say that the ratepayers Government decision to call local authority should have their say because not once—I leaders Mayors and elected representatives repeat, “not once”—did the National Party Councillors was welcomed by Gympie Mayor allow the ratepayers to have a say when it Joan Dodt. Widgee Shire Chairman changed shire and city boundaries. McClintock said that the change did not concern him, but he would have preferred to I am now going to take honourable have remained as chairman. Councillor members down memory lane to illustrate the McClintock said that the decision came as no hypocrisy of the National Party. In 1979, when surprise to him as the Local Government a move was being made for the resort town of Association of Queensland was told at its Caloundra to secede from the largely rural annual conference last month that the title of Landsborough office, Landsborough Shire chairman would say. But Terry Mackenroth Council Division 5 member Councillor Barker has in fact made the decision, or he says that called for a petition to establish a Caloundra he has made the decision, that they will be town council. I have an article which states— called chairmen, even though earlier in the “But a local government spokesman piece he had said that they were going to be said that such a petition would almost called mayors. Are they all going to be called certainly be rejected because it was not mayors? Are they all going to be called departmental policy.” chairmen, or are they all going to be called That was a reference to the Local presidents? What is going on? What decisions Government Department policy to take have been made in regard to this issue? account of petitions. Tonight, we hear the The Minister has left me confused as to Opposition calling for exactly the opposite. the direction in which he is going, and I do not That is a sign of hypocrisy. Quite often the believe that he has given it very much thought Opposition referred to Michael Jones and at all. Let us have a look at the area of quoted statements made by him. I have been recognition. Mr Hoffman is using this as a advised that this person was actually paid a vehicle to be disruptive, more than anything huge sum by the council to oppose any else, and he is acting against the wishes of changes that were proposed. the community. Honourable members do not There is no better example of hypocrisy know what to think. One person who does than was pointed out on 13 November 1984 know what he is about is Mr Geoff Brown. Mr by the member for Mackay, Ed Casey. He Beattie may recall that Mr Brown was my spoke in the Adjournment debate about shire opponent at the last State election. Mr Brown boundaries. For 27 years, the National Party was also a councillor before the last council Government claimed that its policy was to 14 October 1993 5278 Legislative Assembly change shire boundaries in Queensland if recommended that if two councils decided both affected shires agreed. No other criteria that they wanted to amalgamate, they should were laid down. For years and years, at local be allowed to do so. government conferences in this State, the It is interesting to note that despite all of National Party Minister for Local Government, this public participation, the National Party is Main Roads and Racing, Mr Hinze, and his trying to say that this Government has gone predecessors constantly repeated that claim. down the wrong track. The track down which The councils of Gympie and Widgee the Goss Government has gone is one of have accepted amalgamation and the proprietary and fairness, which is in contrast to National Party is now saying that it is opposed the National Party policy of political to it. That is marvellous! Earlier that year, interference and personal greed. honourable members saw a departure from that policy when changes were made to the I will demonstrate what could happen. boundaries of the Duaringa Shire, the The new Logan Shire was approved by Livingstone Shire and the Fitzroy Shire. The Cabinet in 1978. A whole new shire was changes related to a little pocket of land in established and, even though there were calls Queensland on the Mackenzie River. The for a referendum, no referendum took place. It changes resulted in a large saving in rates for was a decision of the Government at that time the Bjelke-Petersen family. No shire wanted to amalgamate two different shires because that change, but the former Government some of the National Party’s mates decided forced that change for one reason, and that that that was what they wanted. That has was to save money for the Bjelke-Petersen caused problems ever since. family—a National Party family. The rules can When a major change occurred in 1985, be broken if and when the Government when the former Government decided to wishes them to be broken, as they were in abolish the Burrum Shire to create the City of that particular case. I suppose it was 1984 the Hervey Bay and to expand the City of Year of the Family. The National Party is Maryborough, was one referendum held? interested in looking after the families of There was not. The Sunday-Mail of 17 March National Party members. 1975 explained how the former Government There is more evidence of the hypocrisy made that change— of members opposite. When in 1984, 80 per “Hinze has a bird’s eye view. The cent of 250 ratepayers indicated unofficially Local Government Minister made an that they wanted to transfer from the Nebo aerial inspection of the Maryborough Shire to the Bowen Shire because they have district yesterday afternoon in connection a community of interest with people in that with the proposal to alter local authority shire, what happened? When both of those boundaries in the areas. shires were unanimous in wanting to transfer the Nebo Shire, Division 3, to the Bowen He was accompanied by Mr Powell Shire, they informed the then Minister for (N.P., Isis) and the Maryborough City Local Government, Main Roads and Racing, Council engineer.” Mr Hinze, of that arrangement. Mr Hinze That was it. That is how the former rejected that application because of political Government made its decisions—from the air. interference by the Minister for Northern Development and Aboriginal and Island When it made that decision, there was a Affairs, Mr Katter, and the Minister for Welfare call for Russ Hinze to resign as Minister. This is Services, Youth and Ethnic Affairs, Mr Muntz. the quote that we must remember— The National Party made decisions—and “The Local Government Minister (Mr. engaged in political interference—for the Hinze) admitted yesterday the National personal gain of National Party members. For Party’s Hervey Bay branch had called for 27 years, it was National Party policy that if his resignation. two councils wanted to amalgamate or to He told Mr Marginson (A.L.P., have the boundaries changed, that would be Wolston) in Parliament he had accepted. recommended a separate Hervey Bay The Goss Government has gone to the local authority area be created.” people on three occasions. It has instituted inquiries by EARC and PEARC, and by the This must be the quote of all quotes. He independent Local Government stated— Commissioner. As a result of those three “Once you start to tamper with local inquiries—to which members of the public authority boundaries you cannot please were able to make submissions—it was all the people all the time.” Legislative Assembly 5279 14 October 1993

That is one thing that Russ Hinze said which Association or any local authority in lives on and on and on. Of course, the Queensland. Prior to the Government’s Government will not please all of the people presenting that motion to the Parliament, no all of the time. However, at least this system consultation was undertaken with local has been independent. It has been free from authorities or other political parties. That sums political interference. I would rather go down it all up. the track of this Goss Labor Government than A dissenting report was included in the go down the track that the National Party report of the Parliamentary Committee for Governments went down for 20 or 30-odd Electoral and Administrative Review. The way years, when they made their changes on the the member for Bundaberg was talking, one basis of personal greed and political would swear that seven lovely members all interference. agreed harmoniously that this was the way to Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) go. Far from it! The record speaks for itself. It (9.42 p.m.): I rise to participate in this very shows quite clearly what a lot of hypocrisy and important disallowance motion on humbug Government members are talking. I amalgamation of local government areas. I do am sure that you would agree, Mr Deputy so because, clearly, the Government is out of Speaker. This is a Big Brother exercise. No touch with that matter. The member for attempt has been made to hold a Bundaberg reminded me of a few things. He referendum, and Labor members know it. No was recalling history, yet earlier today, attempt has been made whatsoever. yesterday, the day before and the day before To fully appreciate what I am saying, one that, I heard in this place how this is the new has only to look at the report of the era of open and accountable Government. I parliamentary committee on the proposal for am sure that Mr Deputy Speaker has heard it, the amalgamation of the Gympie and Widgee too, over and over again, like a cracked Shires. Item 11.40 states— record. We heard it again today—open and accountable Government. Government “Mr Welford asked Cr McClintock members are parroting certain phrases and whether the state government should cliches. bear the cost of conducting referenda requested by his and other councils: Mr Beattie: Doesn’t it feel good? Mr Welford: The referendum is your Mr BEANLAND: The member for suggestion. Are you happy to pay those Brisbane Central said how good parroting costs?” those phrases is. He is always parroting cliches and phrases. What a great deal of arrogance! That is clear arrogance riding roughshod over the Mr Beattie: And doing it with style. ratepayers—the electors—of the local Mr BEANLAND: He is at it again now. He authorities. Councillor McClintock said— interjects and parrots on. He should attend to “As far as I see it, our council, at his numbers; they are not looking too good. least is quite happy to stay where it is. The actions of the Government speak louder Why does it need to change at all? But I than words. We have supposedly moved into would expect that the local authorities the post-Fitzgerald era. I say “supposedly”, would pick up that costs.” because that is all that it means to the member for Bundaberg. One has only to look The local authorities were prepared to at the Government’s actions in this very pick up the costs. But, no! This Government is important matter. not prepared to take any notice of referendums at all. One has only to consider One can go back in the history of these the proposal for the Woocoo Shire and amalgamations to 29 March 1990, when the Maryborough, to which I have referred Deputy Premier, Mr Burns, the then Minister previously in this place. On 14 August, for Housing and Local Government—the man approximately 90 per cent of the electors in who seems to create many of those problems the Woocoo Shire were involved in a local within the Government—started this whole authority referendum. They showed through a exercise by moving a motion in the Parliament compulsory poll that they were very clear in for EARC to investigate local government their desires on that matter. The percentage internal boundaries and amalgamations and of voters who voted on that issue was greater report back by a certain date. That motion was than the percentage of voters at the previous not supported by either the National Party or local government elections. Excluding votes the Liberal Party, nor was it a matter arising yet to be returned, 90 per cent of voters took from the Fitzgerald report. It was not the result part in the process, and 90 per cent of them of a request from the Local Government 14 October 1993 5280 Legislative Assembly pointed out that they wanted nothing to do am sure that, if the Minister wants to achieve with the amalgamation with Maryborough— that, he will. As we all know, the Government nothing at all. Seventy-seven per cent of the is all powerful in those matters. By various voters wanted no boundary change of any means, the Minister can force the local sort, and 85 per cent of the city fringe dwellers authorities to do what he wants them to do. wanted nothing to do with Maryborough in any Under the Queensland Constitution Act, way concerning the change of boundaries. consultation is required. No consultation has A submission from the Woocoo Shire to been undertaken with local government—far the Local Government Commissioner stated— from it. The Government now has exactly the “The poll was conducted honestly, situation that we foresaw back in 1990 when legally, under scrutiny and consistent with the whole mad exercise started off with the the Local Government Act of this State. Minister’s predecessor. The Minister indicated that he was not content to simply sit down and It is beyond reproach, despite your change the name from “Gympie/Widgee” to attempts to throw doubt on it in the public “Cooloola Shire”. He said that more changes media.” would be made. After all this, he said that, if The poll was quite legal and quite correct. The the voters of the new shire want it—the submission continued— ratepayers, the electors—the name will be “I’m sure more detailed information changed to “Gympie”. The continuous stream would be available from the Council if you of upheaval continues. As if one series of sought it. upheavals is not bad enough, this Minister will impose a further series of upheavals. It is At least the Council has done the quite clear that this is amalgamation for democratic thing and run a poll at the amalgamation’s sake and change for residents request.” change’s sake, which is so prevalent in The Woocoo Shire pointed out exactly everything that this Government touches. what happened when that shire council held a I turn to the benefits. I have examined referendum. More electors turned out for that the comments on the proposed referendum than they did for the local amalgamation of the Gympie and Widgee government election. That very clear situation councils. One of the reports that I have states is occurring over and over again. When one that very few, if any, benefits will flow from this deals with local authorities, one is not dealing amalgamation and, in fact, there will be with State Government or Federal considerable costs. At point 11.38 of that Government boundaries, Federal members or report, Councillor McClintock estimated that State members; one is dealing with local the new office facilities for a combined local government, which is far more dear to the authority would cost between $3m and $4m, people of this State than the rest of us put and that $2m might be required for new together. We might get upset about changes depots and $500,000 for new computer to the boundaries of State and Federal systems. So there are a few million dollars electorates. However, the voters are not too there. I am sure that this Government will not concerned about that. But the Government pick up the tab, but the poor old ratepayers of should try changing the local government the area will. Members know very well that that boundaries and see how it gets on. The is true. At the end of the day, no benefits will Minister will not only get burnt on the arms, he flow from amalgamation. will probably get well and truly showered at the same time, having gone through the dip. The same applies to the proposed amalgamation of the Woocoo and I say to the Minister that it is not yet too Maryborough councils. In fact, the information late to back off from the matter. With his Big paper states that no significant benefits are to Brother attitude, the Minister is riding be gained. Indeed, there will be significant roughshod over local authorities. increases in rates and little benefit to residents Amalgamation is not their wish. It is not the under any options that the Government offers. wish of the voters. Although the same residents would not bear Mr Mackenroth: They agreed to it. the rate increases in each case, someone will, Mr BEANLAND: It is no use saying that and the benefits accruing are minimal and the local authorities agreed to it. I know the certainly debatable. The rates will go up and coercion that is going on. Local authorities are the costs will go up. I am looking forward to being forced into these amalgamations. this Government paying the supreme penalty People are trying to force the Woocoo Shire for that. We have seen Governments and Maryborough City into amalgamation. I elsewhere pay a supreme price for interfering in local government. Legislative Assembly 5281 14 October 1993

Mr Stoneman: A revisitation of 1974. agree with us, you are wrong.” Because Mr Mr BEANLAND: I take that interjection—a Hoffman did not accede to a certain view, he revisitation of 1974. must be wrong! In fact, when Mr Hoffman was appointed to that position, it was my view that, Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) because of his former employment, he was (9.52 p.m.): It is a pleasure to join the debate too closely associated with the personalities of on this disallowance motion and to oppose local government. I thought that he might not the motion moved by the member for Callide. have been able to do the job. Let me say I am surprised that, so far in the debate, none quite clearly that Mr Hoffman has of the speakers from the Opposition have demonstrated an ability to balance properly all referred to the regulations that they are of the competing viewpoints. hoping to have disallowed. I might be new to this place, but I thought that would have been Mr Stephan: So you agree with Mr one of the requirements for a debate such as Hoffman? this. The member for Gympie, the only Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: As I pointed out at Opposition speaker who has thus far bothered the beginning of my contribution, the member to talk about the local circumstances of the for Gympie has obviously not read the report. Gympie/Widgee area, appeared not to have The member for Gympie ought to go back to read Mr Hoffman’s report. his constituents and tell them—— Leading the debate for the Opposition, Mr Stephan: I have read it. the member for Callide said words to the effect that this merger is being imposed from Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: If he had read the above by a Government with a hidden report, the member would not ask such a agenda. Let us consider the process of the stupid question. In any event, he should “hidden agenda” that the member for Callide return to his usual seat. claims to have exposed this evening. First, One Opposition member made the point there was the Electoral and Administrative that no referendum was conducted. Sure, that Review Commission’s report. Do members is true. However, one of the things that Mr opposite claim that EARC is not independent? Hoffman considered—as the member for Of course they do not, because EARC is Gympie would be aware—was the community independent. Second, there was the report of consultation carried out by both councils. the parliamentary committee. As the member for Indooroopilly mentioned, there was—— The member for Callide said that she favoured joint working arrangements. Joint Mrs McCauley interjected. working arrangements were one of the Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I ask the member to aspects considered by Mr Hoffman. The hold her horses. The member for Callide had executive summary of Mr Hoffman’s report five minutes more than I have, so I ask her to states— be quiet. As Mr Beanland said, there was a minority report. The third process—which most “However, the disadvantages of the Opposition members have neglected to Joint arrangements option are considered mention—is that the two councils involved, to outweigh any potential advantage. Its Gympie and Widgee, employed Coopers and disadvantages are:— Lybrand as consultants. I challenge Mr the revenue constraints of Gympie Beanland, Mrs McCauley and Mr Stephan to City are not improved; claim that the Government has bought off Coopers and Lybrand. I do not think that they there is evidence that existing joint would be game to do that. As a consequence arrangements are under pressure of the Coopers and Lybrand report, a joint from the different economic meeting of the councils supported a merger in imperatives. This pressure would be principle. expected to continue under extended joint arrangements as the The fourth stage in this process is the differences in the growth and Local Government Commissioner’s report. The development of the two Local attacks on Greg Hoffman tonight have been Governments increases; nothing short of disgraceful. Mr Hoffman, according to the member for Callide, has for joint arrangements to be taken no notice of anything we have said. The successful it is considered necessary people have said that Mr Hoffman has taken that they will provide benefits to no notice of anything that they have said. participants. The joint arrangements That exposes the attitude of members necessary for water and sewerage opposite, who have always said, “If you do not 14 October 1993 5282 Legislative Assembly

infrastructure would not provide any call for more consultation.They have to stop net gain for Gympie City; bleating in this instance. the extensive range of functions Mr Stephan said that Mr Hoffman is a identified for expanded joint vehicle that the Government is using. Mr arrangements may have negative Stephan owes Mr Hoffman an apology, implications for representation by because he is not a vehicle that this and accountability of elected Government is driving. He is an independent members.” commissioner and the work that he has done During his review, Mr Hoffman considered the has been independent. To suggest that he is joint arrangements favoured by the member doing the Government’s work is disgraceful for Callide. He believed that the advantages of and not worthy of Mr Stephan’s experience. such a system were outweighed by its Mr Stephan also mentioned Mr Geoff disadvantages. Brown, who is a well-known Labor Party When he made his contribution, the identity in Gympie. member for Gympie demonstrated his belief Mr Stephan interjected. that we should still be in the days when the Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: We all know that. State Cabinet told everybody—judges, the When I was in Gympie last, Mr Brown told me police and independent commissioners—what that amalgamation was fairly much a fifty-fifty to do. That is clearly not what the people of proposition. He felt that the chances were that Queensland want now. I am sure that the the balance might have been in favour of non- member for Gympie would enunciate the amalgamation. If he had been advising the doctrine of the separation of powers more Government, as the honourable member clearly and more efficiently than did his former seems to suggest he is, surely we would not Premier. The member for Gympie said quite a have been having this debate. lot about rates. Again, he demonstrated that he had not read the report by Mr Hoffman. In the last few minutes that I have left, I Reference was made to the house paying was going to make some comments about Mr rates of 2c in the dollar and the house paying Beanland’s speech, but I will leave that to Mr rates of 5c in the dollar being located side by Beattie. Let me say that I favour side. If I were living in the house paying 5c in amalgamation. I think that EARC squibbed it. the dollar, I would be pretty angry. The fact is More amalgamations should have been that Mr Hoffman has suggested that the rates proposed. However, there is one sad aspect as set in the budgets be preserved for this about the amalgamation. It seems apparent financial year; that the relativity—— to me that Mrs Dodt, the Mayor of Gympie, and Mr McClintock, the Chairman of Widgee Mr Stephan interjected. Shire, will both contest the mayoralty of the Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Mr Deputy Speaker, Cooloola Shire. I was treated wonderfully well will you shut the member for Gympie up, by Mr McClintock when I represented part of please? his shire. I realise that Mr Stephan would not Mr STEPHAN: I rise to a point of order. I like him because he ran against him at an take offence at the member’s comment. I election. believe that it is unparliamentary. Time expired. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): Mr STONEMAN (Burdekin) (10.02 p.m.): I Order! There is no point of order. rise to support the motion moved by the Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: The member for Opposition shadow Minister and to oppose Gympie has been a member of this place for the forced amalgamation of local authorities in 10 years but he still does not know anything. this State by the Goss Labor Government. In the 1994-95 year, the levels will be The Opposition has never approved of the maintained through differential rating—— forced amalgamation of the Gympie and Widgee councils, and nor have 99.5 per cent Mr Mackenroth: Of course, we didn’t of the people of this State. accept that. You know that, don’t you? I will reiterate some of the comments I Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Of course. Members made last night. The first thing that should opposite regularly criticise the Government for occur in any such situation, in any such its committees and its consultation with business arrangement or any such people. They say to us that we are always administrative arrangement is that a cost- dragging out the decision-making process. benefit analysis should be carried out. No However, the minute a decision is taken that is such analysis was carried out in this instance not to the liking of members opposite, they and no proposed benefits were put before the Legislative Assembly 5283 14 October 1993 people of either local authority. Regardless of Mr FitzGerald: How did the New whether the amalgamation is good or bad, Zealanders consult when they talked about that is the most reprehensible thing that could amalgamations at all the hall meetings? be done to people at any level of government Mr STONEMAN: In New Zealand, a in this State. The Government is refusing to democratic process is in place. Even though accept the democratic process. people might not like the end result, they at Mr McElligott: Don’t you think there least acknowledge that they have been should ever be changes in the local consulted and have been part of the process. government boundaries? What Mr Beattie and his thugs who push the Mr STONEMAN: I take the honourable centralisation idea of government do not member’s interjection. I think there should be, understand is that people within his own party because we live in a dynamic society in which know that what is happening is wrong. there needs to be a degree of flexibility and a I refer to what occurred during the forced recognition that things are changing. We need amalgamation of the Pioneer and Mackay to recognise that the community has changing councils. As Deputy Chairman of the needs. However, the first thing that ratepayers Parliamentary Committee for Administrative must know is: what is going to happen to their and Electoral Review, I travelled to Carlen. I hip pocket? thank the member for Whitsunday for The commissioner has been placed in reminding me of the name of that little town, the invidious position in which there is no because a person who had a similar name to requirement in this process for him to say to that of the honourable member, a Mr John the ratepayers, “This is what it is going to cost Bird, gave evidence before the committee. I you” or, “This is the benefit that you are going am not sure whether he is related to the to gain.” member. At that time, Mr John Bird was the treasurer of the Labor Party in this State. He Mr Beattie: But how can you do that? gave vehement evidence against the Mr STONEMAN: “How can you do that?” processes of forced amalgamation. He was says the cocooned member for Brisbane very eloquent in representing the feelings of Central, a person who has never been outside local government in that area, and he did it his little feather-nested area of the State. We without fear or favour on behalf of the have a system that allows a full process to be constituents whom he was representing at the followed. local government level. He said, “It is not in Mr Beattie: And to determine rates, our interest”, and he was referring to the which is what you were saying. You can’t do interests of the local people. that. What intrigues me is that there are Mr STONEMAN: Last night I spoke about people in the Labor Party, the same party to the processes that apply in New Zealand which Mr John Bird belongs, who are prepared whereby a series of requirements are placed to stand up in this House and force a process on the commissioner. In New Zealand, the of amalgamation on local government in this Commissioner for Local Government, Sir Brian State. Under the legislation, the Local Ellwood, is a practical man who understands Government Commissioner forced a process the processes of local government. He has to of amalgamation on those local authorities. prove to those who are being disfranchised He did not do it in the Townsville/Thuringowa and those who are part of the expanded local area, but he did it in the Gympie/Widgee area. government process that they will both There may be benefits in Gympie/Widgee benefit. If that does not occur, the process amalgamation, but I am not too sure, and allows for a referendum in which people are neither are the people of Gympie/Widgee. No able to indicate their concerns and their cost-benefit analysis has been carried out. attitudes. However, under this legislation the They do not know what the benefits will be Local Government Commissioner, Mr because, unlike what happens in New Hoffman, does not have to carry out any cost- Zealand, the Government has not directed benefit analysis. The member for Brisbane that, before any such change occur, a cost- Central would not understand what that is, benefit analysis be carried out. because he is a member of the baseball bat Mr John Bird, who represented local level of government. He thinks to himself, government fearlessly and faithfully at Calen, “This is a good idea. This will centralise said, “We don’t know what the benefits are government. Let’s do it.” going to be. We don’t understand what the I turn to some other areas relating to the benefits are going to be.” I am sure that he Labor Party and its attitude. would have agreed with the proposal if an 14 October 1993 5284 Legislative Assembly analysis had been carried out that revealed Mr Stoneman: What about the dissenting that there was going to be a benefit. report? Mrs McCauley: I understand that the Mrs WOODGATE: Let me talk about the member for Whitsunday is not in favour of dissenting report. Opposition members are amalgamation, either. dishonest. Sure, there was a dissenting report, Mr STONEMAN: I take that interjection. I but there was also a unanimous report understand that the member for Whitsunday, supporting no referendum. who shares the same surname as Mr John Mr STONEMAN: I rise to a point of order. Bird, is not in favour of amalgamation. It is There was also a unanimous report supporting interesting to note that the member for no forced amalgamation. Thuringowa has been desperately trying to Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): force an amalgamation on Townsville and Order! There is no point of order. I consider Thuringowa, because the word around the the member’s point of order to be frivolous. He traps up there is that he really wants to will desist from rising to further frivolous points become mayor. I think that he would make a of order. better mayor than the incumbent Mayor of Townsville. The problem is that he would get Mrs WOODGATE: For the benefit of done over by the current Mayor of members opposite who may be a bit hard of Thuringowa, Alderman Les Tyrell. hearing, I repeat that there was a unanimous report from the parliamentary committee that In this debate, we need a bit of there be no referendum as to whether the commonsense. We must understand that the merger should take place. It is absolute people who are most affected by these rubbish for members to say that this has been processes are not truly represented by the a forced merger. As I said at the beginning of legislation. This debate proves that. A forced this speech, I am a bit sad about that. Both amalgamation process will not leave anyone councils did support it. Four years after the happy and will prove nothing. It will not show Fitzgerald report, members opposite still have to those people that they will be financially not come to grips with the fact that better off. It will mean that the 20 000 people consultation and thorough independent of the areas that members are talking about reviews are the way to go. They go along with will be represented by only half the present the process and mouth the words, but when number of councillors. The rural and urban we get to the end of road they will not have a communities will be blended. bar of it. Time expired. One of the most thorough reports ever Mrs WOODGATE (Kurwongbah) presented in this place was the City of Gympie (10.12 p.m.): I am very pleased to oppose this and Widgee Shire report from the office of the disallowance motion. I feel quite sad after Local Government Commissioner. It listening to the emotional drivel from considered all aspects of the merger. Both Opposition members. If ever a dishonest Gympie and Widgee councils proposed four debate has been entered into by members on multi-member divisions, each incorporating that side of the House, this one really takes rural, rural residential and urban areas—the the cake. The honourable members for most fair division of any present or future city Callide, Indooroopilly, Burdekin and, to a in this State. The member for Callide had a lesser degree, the honourable member for dig about the name. What the Minister said by Stephan stand up here and tell us—— way of interjection was perfectly correct. If the An honourable member interjected. new city does not like the name, it has every right to refer it back to the Local Government Mrs WOODGATE: One can understand Commissioner. The Government has agreed the mix-up. Those members have stood in this that, after the November election of the House and, to a man and a woman, told us Cooloola Shire Council, if it wants to change that this amalgamation has been forced—— its name to Gympie City Council or whatever, Mr Stoneman: A person and a person. that request will be referred to Greg Hoffman. Mrs WOODGATE: I said “a man and a I turn to some of the findings. Anybody woman” and I am sticking to it. The who bothered to read that report would have honourable member for Caboolture to agree that it is the only way to go. For enunciated the amalgamation process. There example, I refer to the Coopers and Lybrand was the EARC report on it.Then there was the findings. In terms of pure economics—and PEARC report. And, sure, there was also a that is not the only thing—they found that— dissenting report. Legislative Assembly 5285 14 October 1993

“. . . key outcomes of a merge of the two to both councils. I really believe that if people Local Governments . . . (would be) a on the other side of the House had bothered significant benefit to Gympie as negative to read this, they would have said, “Why didn’t financial consequences associated with a someone tell us about this 15 years ago? It’s stagnant population would be lessened.” the only way to go.” Most importantly, they found— Mr Stephan: It works well, doesn’t it? “. . . a significant and sustained long-term Mrs WOODGATE: It works very well. benefit to the region due to the fact that Those councils are setting themselves up to higher level issues relating to economic be merged. As to the public opinion development, regional planning, co- survey—much has been said in the local press ordination, systems development and in that area about the fact that the majority of service provision will be addressed on a people want a voluntary referendum, but only unified basis.” 26 per cent of voters cast a vote. Members I turn now to the current joint opposite did not bother to mention that survey arrangements between those two councils, of public opinion. There are so many positives which are in an ideal situation for an in the summary of findings of the public amalgamation. As to water supply—a formal opinion survey on the Gympie and Widgee joint arrangement exists for the provision of merger in 1993. The survey showed an water supply. The agreement was signed in overwhelming acceptance of the benefit of the 1986 for a 15-year period. Gympie City merger. A total of 64 per cent of residents provides treated water to the urban and believe that the new council will mean better industrial areas of Widgee Shire. That coordination of service and facilities, town agreement includes cost-s haring planning, water, sewerage, etc; 62 per cent arrangements, dispute resolution procedures believe that the new council will put an end to and regular review processes. the duplication of administration costs; 57 per cent believe that the merger will help make As to sewerage—there is no formal Widgee and Gympie one community; and 52 agreement, but cost-sharing arrangements per cent believe that the merger will mean and an agreement in principle exist. As to lower overall administration costs. The only roadworks—cost-sharing arrangements exist negatives are—and I am not ashamed to read for boundary roads via an exchange of letters, them out: 65 per cent believe that there would although there is no formal agreement. be a long-term increase in rates; 64 per cent Information and equipment are shared on an believe that there would be a short-term informal basis. In the engineering services of increase in rates; and 44 per cent believe that both councils there is a degree of sharing of there would be a loss in representation. some information and equipment for parks and gardens, and plant. Their plant and As I have said, if Opposition members equipment is cross-hired on an as-needed had bothered to do a bit of bedtime reading basis. Both local authorities contribute to the and had turned to the section titled “Rates”, Cooloola Regional Development Bureau for they would have seen what is recommend to the purposes of promoting their area. The be done about the rates. The matter of rates main cemetery is run by a joint Cemetery Trust has been looked after. All outstanding rates of the two councils. Ferry services are and charges for Gympie City and Widgee operated by Widgee Shire during flood Shire will be preserved. The new local periods and funded by both local authorities. government will be empowered to recover Nobody on the Opposition side of the such levies together with any charges. The Chamber bothered to read any of this. The list rates and charges adopted by Gympie City is endless. It is the perfect set-up for a merger. and Widgee Shire for the 1993 year will be maintained for the remainder of the year In relation to the library service—they notwithstanding the merger. Most importantly, presently have a Joint Library Committee. In have Opposition members ever heard of the the cultural sphere, cost-sharing arrangements two words, “differential rating”? This exist for regional arts development and joint Government supports differential rating. There commemorative days. As to information is nothing in any Act, and there will be nothing sharing—informal arrangements exist for in any future local government Act, which will sharing of information on building control, prevent differential rating being used. This is environmental services, public health services, exactly why this Government supports regulation enforcement and waste recycling. differential rating. The only negative aspect of Another important sector is workplace health the public opinion survey was that the people and safety. A workplace health and safety were worried about rates. That matter has officer has been appointed to provide services 14 October 1993 5286 Legislative Assembly been addressed in this report. I recommend it Like two hot potatoes, the RSPCA and forced as bedtime reading for the members opposite. amalgamations have been dropped into the There was mention made about all the Minister’s lap by his predecessor. I bet he loss of jobs. There will be no retrenchments. I wishes that he could throw them away. will just read out the findings in the report—— It is interesting to hear members on the Mr Stephan: There have been Government side of this Parliament say that retrenchments already. the Government has consulted with local Mrs WOODGATE: There may be authorities. This amalgamation was not part of redundancies. There will be no retrenchments. Fitzgerald’s recommendations. In early 1990, The report states that the successor local Mr Burns came into this place and said, “We government shall not for a period of two years are going to refer the matter of internal from the operative date retrench any boundary changes and external boundary employee. It is there in black and white. I changes to EARC for a quick look and to have really believe, on listening to all Opposition some recommendations.” PEARC had a look members, that not one of them has read this at the matter. Not only did this operation cost report. As I said, if there were ever two millions of dollars but it also cost local councils set up for a successful merger, these authorities and, in some cases, private are they. The only problem is the worry with individuals, who are ratepayers hundreds of the rates, and that is going to be addressed. It thousands of dollars to hire consultants. In has been addressed by this Government in its many cases, those consultants got it wrong. introduction and its support of differential Unfortunately, some of those local authorities rating. are still paying for it. Mr SPRINGBORG (Warwick) What happened was that, last year, the (10.22 p.m.): In rising to participate in this Government said, “Don’t worry, we want to debate tonight, I think that it is necessary for consult with the people out there once again. me to point out at the outset—and I am We do not necessarily agree with forced reading from the regulation—that the purpose amalgamations if you can come up with of this regulation is— cooperative arrangements. We love you all; we love you all.” Basically, that is what it said. “to implement the reviewable local So it set up the office of Local Government government matter recommended by the Commissioner. After all the things that Commissioner in the report.” occurred over the previous two years, there And further— was no doubt that there had to be some “to provide for the implementation of result. The processes were intertwined. the reviewable local government matter, EARC’s recommendations were contained in including providing for matters dealt with reports, and it was duty-bound to bring down a by the Commissioner under section 4L of result and, in some cases, recommend the Act. amalgamations. No doubt, as in the case of Townsville and Thuringowa, much to the Part 2 implements the reviewable remorse of the honourable member for local government matter and involves— Thuringowa, EARC felt the need not to (a) the abolition of the areas of the recommend amalgamation of those two City of Gympie and the Shire of Widgee; areas. and But I know exactly how the people of (b) the creation of an area named Gympie and Widgee feel. They have not been the Shire of Cooloola.” given a democratic process. Regardless of I know exactly how the people of Gympie and what the honourable members on the Widgee feel. I am assured by the member for Government side of the House say, there is Gympie, Len Stephan, that those people feel no guarantee with rates. Members should that they have been let down. There is no forget this nonsense about differential rating doubt that these people have been forced and rate capping. That depends on the into this amalgamation. Regardless of what goodwill of the local authority. honourable members on the Government side Take this scenario a little bit further down of the House say, this is one of the biggest the track and imagine what would happen to a debacles that this Government has ever had. local authority that is dominated by urban Unfortunately, the poor current Minister areas and urban interests—and that is what is for Housing, Local Government and Planning going to happen in a lot of these areas. For has to carry the can. It has been dropped into years, small local authorities around the urban his lap, the same as has the RSPCA matter. rim have done a good job. In many cases, Legislative Assembly 5287 14 October 1993 they are quite profitable, they have not lost said, “We are going to amalgamate Allora as any money and they have no debts. What well.” That decision was made after a year of happens if the urban councils say, “No, we do negotiations. not want differential rating. We are not going I am afraid that dealing with this to cap those rates.” The people in those more Government is like dealing with a snake-oil isolated areas of the shires do not have the salesman. I have a great deal of sympathy for electoral representation to stop that occurring. the commissioner. I think that he has his I want to continue speaking about this hands full because of what has happened in undemocratic process and to point out how it the past. Recently, a public meeting was held has been sheeted home to me in my own in Allora. Approximately 40 per cent of the electorate. Currently, I have in my electorate residents of that shire turned up. They heard six local authorities, four of which have been the Local Government Commissioner say at recommended for amalgamation. that meeting, “I am here to listen to you. Mr Mackenroth: And you’re going to end Thank you very much for your submissions, up with a megacity. but I believe I am right, and this is where I believe you are wrong.” He said, “I have rung Mr SPRINGBORG: Much to the Minister’s up Inverell and Lismore in New South Wales, shame. Let me say that when the Minister for and other local authorities which have been Housing, Local Government and Planning amalgamated.” The same thing will happen in comes to make a decision about Rosenthal, Gympie. Allora, Glengallan and Warwick shires, he should remember that he has a pecuniary He then said, “I have spoken to some interest in Rosenthal, because he opened the people who are in power in those areas in Rosenthal Mobile Library. That is a great little New South Wales, and they have told me that innovation for the Rosenthal local authority. they think the amalgamation is working quite The Minister is the inaugural life member, so well.” But I tell the Minister to speak to the he certainly has a pecuniary interest in that people who live a little bit further out in those shire. areas and have lost their representation, and he will find that the news is not so good. Only Over many years, these small local a few days ago, Moree Plains, which is an authorities have endeavoured to provide such amalgamated local authority, said that it can facilities. They have set about putting in train not afford to maintain 135 kilometres of road. things that will make their ratepayers better It says that its roads are breaking down. off. In the case of local authorities, small is Because of the urban base, the better, and small is beautiful. Rosenthal, amalgamation of those authorities has where the Honourable the Minister is the created a Taj Mahal. Inverell is one example inaugural life member of the Rosenthal Mobile that he gave as working quite well. I received Library, has put in place CED schemes without a call from a woman in northern New South having to go to the Government and say, “We Wales—not far from my electorate. She want a grant to do this.” Those shires have sought my assistance to obtain a bitumen reticulated water throughout their small strip past her property. I said that it was in the villages of eight, nine or ten houses. They wrong State but that I would make have healthy books; they have no debts. The representations to my colleagues in New same applies to Allora Shire. Glengallan has South Wales. I asked her, “Where is your local some debt problems, but it is a council that is councillor?” She said, “He lives 100-odd miles big enough to handle them. away.” Obviously, people such as that are I refer again to this undemocratic process forgotten. and I talk about compromise—Allora When members of the Government talk compromised on this matter and said to the about consultancies, I refer them to the Larkin Warwick City Council that if it believed that it report. Larkin, the consultants, said, “Let us needed room to expand, it would go along sell off the council building at Allora.” What with it and support giving away a little bit of they did not see is that the senior citizens Rosenthal to Warwick and taking a bit of centre is housed in the same council building Rosenthal for itself. That shire believed that it as the town library. There is no excuse for not was compromising. It felt that there may have having local involvement. People can write a been some logic in the proposal because report from a distance based on talking to a there is need for better planning, and maybe couple of people, but there is no substitute for Warwick needed to expand. What happened getting out and talking to individuals. The was that, suddenly, the Local Government honourable member for Gympie, Mr Stephan, Commissioner, after all that had occurred, for and I know that those people are extremely no rhyme or reason, arrived at Option 4 and uncomfortable about this issue. They want a 14 October 1993 5288 Legislative Assembly referendum. Government members have National/Liberal Government do? The gone over the history of this matter. If those honourable member for Indooroopilly should members wish to go back over history, tell us grin, because at one stage he was a about the high schools they did not build beneficiary of their actions. What did the between 1930 and 1957. We are talking National/Liberal Government do in the early about now. We are talking about the most 1970s? substantial boundary changes, I think, that Clem Jones was elected by the Labor have ever been forced upon local authorities Party caucus as leader and by the people as in this State. mayor. He was so popular there was no way Mr Mackenroth: Since 1925. that the National/Liberal Government was Mr SPRINGBORG: Well, since 1925. I going to get rid of him. So what did it do? am glad that the Minister admitted that, and I Without any consultation with the Brisbane wish him well with it. He has adopted a City Council at all it changed the system so jackboot approach and jumped on these local that the mayor was elected in a different way. authorities. I know that the Minister is carrying At that stage, the mayor was elected by the the can for some of the decisions that have people. The National/Liberal Government been made in the past, but he is going to changed it to a situation where he was elected regret it. People are being scared into by the aldermen. The conservatives were supporting these amalgamations. The Local given such a thrashing that Clem Jones and Government Commissioner is putting about all his team won all but one ward. That was not sorts of dubious stories. good enough. In the 1980s, Roy Harvey was mayor. To get rid of Roy Harvey so that Time expired. Sallyanne Atkinson could win, and Denver Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) Beanland could become vice-mayor, the (10.33 p.m.): Mr Speaker, I am delighted to Government again changed the system. It see you in the chair tonight because, like me, had only been in operation for about 10 years, you would have been pleased to see the re- but the Government changed the system election of the Hellenic Socialists in Greece again so that instead of being elected by the recently under Mr Papandreou and to see aldermen the mayor was elected—and John your brother re-elected and heading the poll in Goss can point to himself because he was a his constituency. My congratulations to you. beneficiary, too—by the city at large. Talk With a bit of luck, we will see him elevated to a about lack of consultation! similar position to yourself. Mr McElligott: They had no referendum. I turn to some preliminary comments Mr BEATTIE: No, there was no about some of the outrageous remarks made referendum, or consultation. by Opposition members in this House. One would think they had no sense of history. The Mr T. B. Sullivan: The Liberal Party still honourable member for Burdekin said that I has one lousy ward in there. live in a cocoon. One would think that Mr BEATTIE: For the Opposition to move Opposition members live under a stone. They this disallowance motion and say that there have no appreciation of what is happening in needs to be more consultation and that we local government. Under the National Party, are doing something horrible—hypocrisy has there was a string of rorts from Brisbane to never reached such heights as it has tonight. Cape York. Russ Hinze used to use ministerial The question of consultation is very clear. rezonings—he used rorts like you would not There have been four key steps in this believe. As for consultation—there was none. process: firstly, EARC, then PEARC, then the In my electorate, the rorts were so bad that he Widgee/Gympie process that involved even rezoned an area for National Party Coopers and Lybrand, and finally, the headquarters in Spring Hill. There was no limit involvement of Greg Hoffman The Opposition to what he did, absolutely no limit. Opposition may wish to argue about the political makeup members must have a hide thicker than a of PEARC, but it cannot argue about EARC’s rhinoceros to come into this House and even independence, the independent assessment suggest there should be more consultation of the Widgee and Gympie councils by and claim that they are holier than thou in all Coopers and Lybrand or the independence of of this. I have never heard so much nonsense Greg Hoffman. Three out of the four steps in my life! were carried out by independent people. I On the subject of change without know that Opposition members are bored but consultation, let us take the Brisbane City the problem is that they do not like the truth. Council as an example. What did the National They do not like it when they get it back Party Government do? Indeed, what did the between the eyes. The reality is that history is Legislative Assembly 5289 14 October 1993 going to judge Opposition members very Mr BEATTIE: The honourable member badly. It will judge them as being as had to talk about his opponent in the last transparent as has been made obvious by this election. He was so consumed by politics that debate. Anybody who suggests that there has he could not get even a short distance above not been public consultation is being it. His facade fell over during his opening dishonest. remarks. The reality is that this is all about I turn to some of the major criticisms. The party politics. This does not suit the National honourable member for Burdekin raised the Party, so it is opposing it. That is it in a issue of rates. The position is very clear. nutshell. Firstly, in the amalgamated council, rates for I turn to the PEARC report. In the this year will remain as they are, as set by referendum section, supported unanimously individual councils. At the second stage, the by the parliamentary committee, it stated— rates will be determined by the new “The Committee believes that the amalgamated council. This is the only fair way Victorian experience, in particular, that this can be done. This is a point the demonstrates that the need for referenda honourable member for Burdekin had some can frustrate meaningful change.” difficulty understanding. Differential rating is set down in the Local Government Act so after That is what the Opposition members that the amalgamation differential rating can supported. be adopted. The report continued— Mr Stephan: They use it now. “The Committee respects the right of Mr BEATTIE: I take that interjection. The citizens and councils to express their honourable member for Gympie said that they views fully and forcefully on matters such use it now. Therefore, it is available. So his as proposals for local authority argument about rates amounted to nothing. amalgamations; in its hearings, however, The rates issue is solvable—it is sensible, it is the Committee has seen at first hand the compatible and it is workable. To suggest irresponsible and often mischievous there is some problem with rates is a statements made by some local nonsense. Councillors regarding the merits of boundary changes and the propriety of I move on to the referendum issue. The the boundary review process. Given such honourable Margaret Woodgate made the behaviour and mis-information, the point that when PEARC considered this issue, Committee’s view is that it would be not one of the National or Liberal Party difficult to have a fair and rational debate members apposed the idea of a referendum. on the worth of boundary changes—or Yet tonight the Opposition wants to drag out lack of—in some of the local authorities the argument of a referendum because the that EARC has recommended for result was not the one they wanted for their amalgamation. In particular, it regards party political purposes. Let there be no doubt such gross over-statement as for the record or in anybody’s mind, this comparisons to Nazi Germany and motion is simply all about National Party elsewhere as risible. politics. For many, many years the National Party has used local authorities as a training . . . ground and has run around trying—— Clearly then, it is for the parliament to Mr FitzGerald interjected. establish the method by which local government boundary change must Mr BEATTIE: The honourable member occur and for the state government to can squeal all he likes, but the reality is that oversee the implementation of such local authorities were used as a training change.” ground for National Party candidates. The National Party has run with this great What do Opposition members say about myth—this great lie—that there should be no that? They say nothing, because they party politics in local government. We hear opposed a referendum. The report stated calls for independents. Independents, my further— foot! These local candidates are as “This Committee takes the view that independent as the lot opposite. They are all parliament and government have the fronts. What National Party members do not authority and the duty to ensure the like is an open, accountable system. people of Queensland have a system of Mr Stephan interjected. local government truly able to deliver effective services and to plan for the future. It would be an abrogation of the 14 October 1993 5290 Legislative Assembly

responsibility of an elected state An investigation was then conducted by government to condone inaction under EARC, which recommended that there be the guise of requiring a local referendum amalgamation of Gympie and Widgee. Then before boundary change or the parliamentary committee, which was a amalgamation of local authorities could joint committee of this House, unanimously take place.” recommended that there be amalgamation. Finally, on page 186, at point 20.39, the The Government then set up the Office of the report stated— Local Government Commissioner to have an independent look. The Local Government “The Committee recommends that Commissioner has done a cost-benefit the state government implement the analysis and has looked at the work that was boundary changes recommended without done by the Gympie and Widgee councils on necessarily being required to conduct a amalgamation. The Office of the Local referendum before doing so.” Government Commissioner recommended It is all there in black and white. Opposition that there be amalgamation. members cannot move away from what they Amalgamation was supported by both have said previously. the Gympie City Council and the Widgee Shire In conclusion, page 198 of EARC report Council. Yet, Opposition members say that No. 1 sets out the history of the area, going there is no need for amalgamation and that back to 1879, and shows the very frequent people do not want it. At their council changes—as the honourable member for meetings, the elected representatives in both Gympie would know—that have taken place in of those areas supported amalgamation. That relation to the Gympie, Widgee and was the message that was conveyed to Mr Glastonbury divisional boards that were Hoffman when he did his review before he created in 1879 right through to the 1928 made his final representations to the royal commission on local authorities, which Government. When the Government looked recommended a total amalgamation of at whether or not to accept the Gympie and Widgee. That was back in 1928. recommendations of Mr Hoffman, we looked We are finally giving the lead and doing what at the history. We looked at what the people should have been done a long time ago. of Gympie and Widgee said. It was interesting The deamalgamation Bill referred to by to hear the member for Gympie speak tonight. the honourable member for Callide is simply Without being critical of him, I had not destructive party politics. It would reopen old previously heard his views on that matter at wounds. It would not work here because there all. I had not heard him say anything would be enough time to see amalgamation whatsoever. I read the Gympie Times, and, at work. In areas such as Bribie Island or until tonight, I had not seen him being Caboolture, it might create a division, but that involved in the process or having a view on is all that it would do—create division. amalgamation. Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH The Government has looked at the fact (Chatsworth—Minister for Housing, Local that the elected councils in Gympie and Government and Planning) (10.43 p.m.), in Widgee both recommended that they should reply: The Government does not accept the be amalgamated. On that basis, Cabinet disallowance motion moved by the made a decision. Although we had to accept Opposition. Given the Opposition’s support for the name that was recommended—and that referendums on amalgamations, it will be is Cooloola Shire—we did not agree with it. In interesting to see, in the amalgamation of the order for the amalgamation to go ahead and Liberal Party and the National Party, whether for an election to be held, it was necessary to they give all of their branch members a vote in accept all of those recommendations; a referendum. The regulations of which the otherwise, there could not have been Opposition has moved disallowance deal with amalgamation. That is the way the Act is set only one amalgamation, and that is the out. amalgamation of Gympie City and Widgee In relation to the name “Cooloola Shire. The amalgamation of those two local Shire”—Cabinet has decided that, when the authority areas was first recommended in new council is elected, if it wishes to have a 1928. A royal commission was held, which different name—if it wants to adopt the name recommended that those two local authority of Gympie, which is being promoted the areas be amalgamated to form one local most—a resolution of the council could be authority area. However, nobody had the guts sent to the Government, and the Government to do it then. Nobody was prepared to bite the is prepared to send a new recommendation bullet and do it. back to Mr Hoffman to ask him under the Act Legislative Assembly 5291 14 October 1993 to consider bringing the name “Gympie” to the In relation to Gympie and Widgee—I do Cooloola Shire. If the new shire were to ask for not think that an easier or clearer decision that, it would be a strong basis on which the could be made. EARC, PEARC and both of Government could send a recommendation to the councils involved made a decision that Mr Hoffman for his consideration. they wanted to be amalgamated. They made Tonight, a number of issues were raised that decision to be amalgamated. Throughout in relation to other proposals for the process, the councils got cold feet on the amalgamation throughout the State. At this idea, and then they got hot again. They went stage, the Government has not received any on and off. However, the councils passed further final recommendations. The Local resolutions that they be amalgamated to form Government Commissioner is doing a job that one local government area. The decision for was set up under legislation. He makes the Government on that was very, very clear. recommendations to the Government, and On that basis, the Government certainly will the Government will make decisions. I have not accept the motion of disallowance. We will said that all along. I have stated quite clearly continue to support the decision that we have that that is the way in which the Government made. will go about it. We will look at each and every Question—That the motion be agreed recommendation and report that is given to to—put; and the House divided— us. Before we make final decisions, we will AYES, 29—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, have a look at the work that has been done Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gilmore, Goss J. N., and decide whether the Government agrees Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lingard, with those recommendations. We will not Littleproud, McCauley, Mitchell, Perrett, Rowell, simply accept in total the recommendations Santoro, Simpson, Stephan, Stoneman, Turner, that are made in any individual region. We will Veivers, Watson Tellers: Springborg, Laming not do that. We will have a look at the full NOES, 47—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, ramifications of having a megacity of 20 000 Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Budd, Campbell, people on the Darling Downs, particularly what Casey, Clark, Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, De Lacy, it would do for representation. Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Fenlon, Gibbs, Hayward, Hollis, Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, Milliner, The next report that I will receive will be Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Power, Purcell, on the Mackay City Council and the Pioneer Robertson, Rose, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Shire Council. There has been opposition to Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, Vaughan, Warner, that. Mr Stoneman spoke tonight about the Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Pitt, Livingstone fact that a former representative of the council Resolved in the negative. had put forward very strong arguments as to why that amalgamation should not happen. The House adjourned at 10.57 p.m. We will need to examine all of those arguments and the arguments of the Local Government Commissioner as to whether or not the recommendation should be accepted. The Government will make its decisions on that basis.