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Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
THURSDAY, 2 MARCH 1967
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
2430 Radioactive Substances Act, &c.,Bill [ASSEMBLY] Questions
THURSDAY, 2 MARCH, 1967
Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m.
QUESTIONS
AVAILABILITY OF COPIES OF WORKERS' COMPENSATION ACTS Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Treasurer,- Are "The Workers' Compensation Acts, 1916 to 1965" being consolidated and printed? If so, when is it expected that copies will be available for public purchase and what provision has been made to satisfy the needs of people who require copies at present? Answer:- "Conso!idation of the Workers' Com pensation Acts has been completed. The Regulations under the Acts, including recent amendments of Regulations, are being included in the publication to make it as up to date as possible. I am advised that every possible effort is being made with the printing and issue of the consoli dated publication so that it will be available as early as possible. Although copies of the Acts are not at present available, an excellent booklet obtainable from the State Government Insurance Office free of cost sets out concise, up-to-date information concerning a worker's entitlement to compensation. I am assured by the general manager of the State Government Insurance Office that he will be only too pleased to furnish any further details concerning the Acts, should any Honourable Member so request."
SCIENCE BLOCK FOR BALMORAL HIGH SCHOOL Mr. Houston. pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,- When is it proposed to erect a science block at Balmoral State High School?
Answer:- "lt is anticipated that a Commonwealth science block will be erected at the Balmoral High School during the 1968-71 triennium." Questions (2 MARCH] Questions 2431
DENTISTRY STUDENT DEPRIVED OF (2) "It is proposed that the buildings COMMONWEALTH SCHOLARSHIP on Fulham Road, when vacated by the University College, will be used for other Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked educational purposes." The Minister for Education,- Concerning the report of a University student being deprived of both the second APPEAL BY CROWN AGAINST DECISION year dentistry course and a Commonwealth TOWNSVILLE STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATE Scholarship, what action has he taken to Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The have the scholarship continued as the Minister for Justice,- student concerned is in no way responsible for the position in which he finds himself Does he propose to lodge an appeal and his only "crime" is that he wants to be against the decision of a Townsville a dentist? Stipendiary Magistrate for declining to commit for trial E. G. Billam on a charge of dangerous driving causing the death Answer:- of a youth named Dinsmore at Townsville "This matter has been referred to the late last year and, if not, why not? Commonwealth Department of Education and Science, Canberra, for urgent Answer:- consideration." "There is no right of appeal against the decision of the magistrate. The Crown could present an ex officio indictment INSURANCE COMPANIES against Billam but in the opinion of the Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The Crown Law Office there is not sufficient Treasurer,- evidence to prove a case against Billam beyond a reasonable doubt." ( 1) How many insurance companies are operating in Queensland? LAND FOR TEACHERS' COLLEGES IN (2) What is the total amount of PROVINCIAL CITIES premiums received? Mr. P. Wood, pursuant to notice, asked ( 3) What is the total amount of assets The Minister for Education,- held? Further to his Answer to my Question ( 4) What is the total number of on March 1 relevant to sites for teachers' employees of all such insurance companies? colleges, will he give details of the appro priate action taken? Answers:- Answer:- (1 and 2) "I refer the Honourable "No. I cannot give any information Member to the Annual Report of the until these matters are completed because Insurance Commissioner." it might prejtulice Departmental action in obtaining the necessary land." (3 and 4) "The information is not avail able in Departmental records." QUOTA SYSTEM FOR DENTISTRY STUDENTS ToWNSVILLE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE Mr. Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked The Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,- Minister for Education,- In view of the general shortage of ( 1) On what date is it estimated that dentists in Queensland and in particular all students will be attending the Towns the inability of the Government to obtain ville University on the southern bank of dentists for country dental clinics, will he Ross River? use his influence as Premier of the State to have the quota system on the Faculty of (2) What is proposed to be then done Dentistry removed? with the buildings on Fulham Road which are now in use as the Townsville University Answer:- College? "Quotas were introduced as a tem porary measure because of the increased demand on clinical teaching facilities Answers:- arising out of the extension of the course ( 1) "The State and Commonwealth to five years. The Australian Universities Governments are supporting, as far as Commission recommended a grant of funds permit, a capital works programme $1,000,000 for the construction of clinical on the Ross River site up to $3,536,000 facilities for dentistry on the Turbot Street during the 1967-69 triennium. How site in the 1967-69 triennium and plans ever, it is not possible, at this stage, to are at present being prepared. The decision predict when the transfer will be to impose a temporary limitation on the completed." number of students admitted •o 2432 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions
Dentistry II from the beginning of 1967 (2) What has been the maximum and was made in December, 1965, and the minimum period of employment of the students concerned were advised of this dismissed employees? change at the beginning of 1966. They were therefore given twelve months' Answers:- notice. It is true that there is a shortage ( 1) "Eighty additional employees have of dentists in a number of country areas. been discharged. Forty-seven are car However, it is worth pointing out that in penters, three are bricklayers, twenty-nine the period 1960-66 when the population are labourers and one is a scaffolder." of the State increased by 12 per cent. the number of dentists registered m (2) "The maximum and mm1mJm Queensland increased by 19 per cent. periods of employment of the discharged It has long been evident that the employees are five years and two months Queensland University has been producing respectively." dentists for other States and in recent years for the United Kingdom. The table below indicates that Queensland has more DELAY IN COMPLETION OF SCIENCE than played its part. Graduates produced BLOCKS AND TECHNICAL COLLEGE during four years, 1962-65-Sydney BUILDINGS 183, Melbourne 116, Queensland 160, Mr. Sherrington, pursuant to notice, asked Adelaide 50, Western Australia 32; total, The Minister for Works,- 541. Thus, with approximately 14 per cent. of Australia's population, Queensland ( 1) What is the number of science has been providing 30 per cent. of the blocks and technical college buildings graduates during the above period. This being financed from Commonwealth funds, is further brought out by the fact that, whose completion is being delayed because during the four-year period 1960 to 1963, the allocation from this fund has been of the total number of 167 graduates expended? qualifying in Queensland 101 were regis (2) Where are they located? tered in Queensland at the end of 1964. This means that 66 or almost 40 per cent. Answer:- had gone elsewhere. The position will be (! and 2) "The funds allocated by the reviewed as additional clinical teachL1g Commonwealth Government for expendi facilities become available with a view to ture in the year 1966-67 for the provision removing the necessity for quotas and of science blocks has not been fully increasing the numbers of dentists avail expended. The completion of no science able to meet the State's needs." block is being delayed. Because the amount allocated by the Commonwealth Government for expenditure in the year COMPENSATION FOR EROSION DAMAGE 1966-67 for the provision of technical TO CRIBB ISLAND PROPERTIES colleges has been fully expended the cqm Mr. Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked The pletion of one technical college is being Treasurer,- delayed. This technical college is located In line with the Government's policy of at Yeronga." providing assistance to those whose property has been affected by the elements, such as ADDITIONAL PRIMARY SCHOOL AT grazing properties affected by drought, will MT. GRAVATT he. consider the grant of some form of Mr. Davies for Mr. Newton, pursuant to compensation to those residents of Cribb notice, asked The Minister for Education,- Island whose sea-front property was badly affected by erosion during the recent In view of the accelerating growth in the cyclone Dinah? Mt. Gravatt East and Broadwater Road area by way of housing, which has taxed Answer:- the Mt. Gravatt East State School to its capacity, is his Department watching the " It is not the practice to approve appli position with a view of providing a further cations of this nature. Subsidy is, of primary school in this area? If so, has course, payable to Local Authorities for the primary school site in Ham Road been approved erosion prevention works." by-passed altogether by the Department? Answer:- WoRKS DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES "Departmental officers are well aware DISMISSED of the housing growth in the Mt. Mr. Sherrington, pursuant to notice, asked Gravatt East and Broadwater Road area The Minister for Works,- and they have also noted that classroom ( 1 ) Further to his Answer to my Ques accommodation at the Mt. Gravatt East tion on February 22 relative to dismissals State School is at present in excess of of employees from the Works Department, requirements. When an additional primary how many additional employees have been school is necessary to meet the needs of dismissed from that date to the present time the area, the provision of a school on the and in what trades were they employed? Ham Road site will be considered." Questions [2 MARCH] Questions 2433
ADDITIONAL HIGH SCHOOL AT (3) "The number of houses acquired by MT. GRAVATT borrowers and purchasers was- Mr. Davies for Mr. Newton, pursuant to 1963-64 1964-65 1965-66 notice, asked The Minister for Education,- Commonwealth- State Housing In view of the need for a further high Fund 932 698 501 school in the Mt. Gravatt East and Mt. Gravatt South area, has any further con The Queensland sideration been given to my representations Housing Corn- for a high school to be built on the reserve mission Fund 435 525 367 at the corner of Ham and Broadwater Roads, Mt. Gravatt? 1,367 1,223 863"
Answer:- "The Ham and Broadwater Roads site OUTBREAK OF SICKNESS AT CHERBOURG will receive consideration in conjunction Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked The with another site presently held when d Minister for Education,- decision is made to erect another high school in the Mt. Gravatt area." ( 1) Has any outbreak of sickness or epidemic occurred at Cherbourg since Christmas, 1966, and, if so, what was the nature of the illness? HOUSING COMMISSION PURCHASE (2) If any serious illness did occur, HOUSES how many adults and children were affected, Mr. Davies for Mr. Newton, pursuant to how were they affected and were there notice, asked The Minister for Works,- any resultant deaths? ( 1) What is the number of applications Answer:- at present lodged with the Queensland ( I and 2) "During the last week of Housing Commission for home ownership December, 1966, and the first half of by applicants in (a) the metropolitan area and (b) the rest of the State? January, 1967, Cherbourg suffered an out break of gastro-enteritis co-incidental with (2) What is the mm1mum deposit other centres in Queensland. Approxi required on the following types of houses mately one-quarter of the total population (a) brick, (b) concrete, in both categories, were affected, many seriously, resulting .in (c) timber and (d) fibro in (i) the metro a total of seven deaths." politan area, (ii) provincial cities and (i.ii) the rest of the State? (3) What was the number of houses SALE OF ADULTERATED MEAT made available for home ownership from Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked The the Commonwealth-State Housing Fund Minister for Health,- and the Queensland Housing Commission ( 1 ) As the illegal practice of adding Fund for 1963-64, 1964-65 and 1965-66? preservatives to meat is still continuing, how may shops selling meat, including Answers:- sausages, were visited by inspectors during the last twelve months in (a) the metro ( 1) "The number of current home politan area and (b) country areas? ownership applications, inclusive of cases where building contracts have been let (2) How many samples were taken for but house construction not com,pleted, is analysis from (a) butchers' shops and (b) (a) 318, and (b) 521." chain stores, and of this number how many were found to be adulterated and in each (2) "The minimum deposit for pur case from what type of shop were they chase Df a house on Commission land for taken? all categories of construction and for all (3) How many inspectors are employed, parts of the State is $500. A purchaser where are they stationed and what is the may accept liability up to $8,000 [o; size of the area they police? unpaid purchase money, and should the purchase price of house and land ex~eei Answers:- $8,500 the deposit is increased accordingly. The minimum deposit fm a loan for ( 1) "Shops selling meat visited by erection of a house on land owned by an inspectors during the last twelve months applicant is governed by the value of were-(a) Seventeen in the metropolitan house and land. The Commission may area, (b) 250 in the country areas." lend up to 90 per cent. Df this combined (2) "(a) Two hundred and fifty-three value, and the cash deposit is the samples were taken from butchers' shops, difference between such 90 per cent. calcu of which 36 were found to be adulterated. lation and the cost of the house, but the (b) Four samples were taken from chain loan may not exceed $8,000." stores of which three were found to be 2434 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions
adulterated. In addition, three manufac CONCESSIONAL ELECTRICITY TARIFFS TO turers supplying chain stores throughout INDUSTRY southern Queensland were visited and samples submitted for analysis. In all Mr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, asked instances the samples obtained from these The Minister for Industrial Development,- firms were satisfactory. The three positive ( 1) Has he, the Electricity Commissioner samples from chain stores were obtained or the Capricornia Regional Electricity in the country and were mincemeat where Board the authority to offer concessional the product is manufactured on the tariff rates for power in order to encourage premises. The sausages examined were found to conform with the Regulations." decentralisation of industry in the area governed by that Board or any other (3) "Nineteen inspectors are employed Regional Board? of :ovhom nine are employed in the Metro politan area to police all activities of the (2) If concessional rates can be offered, Health Acts. They are responsible for was any offer made to Queensland Alumina the supervision of activities in the Metro Ltd., Gladstone, to establish its works politan are.a and in the Local Authority there? If so, what is the rate and, if not, m:eas of Clty of Ipswich, City of Gympie, why was no concessional rate offered? Clty of Gold Coast, shires of Boonah, Wondai, Murgon, Kilkivan, Murweh Quil.pie, Kingaroy, Widgee, Albert, Gatton: Answers:- Maroochy, Beaudesert, Noosa, Laidley, ( 1) "Electricity supply legislation pre Nanango, Esk, Landsborough, Moreton, cludes discrimination in applying tariffs Kilcoy, Paroo, Bulloo, and Booringa. and other terms and conditions of supply Two inspectors based on Cairns respon to consumers using electricity for similar sib!e for Local Authority areas of City of purposes and under similar circumstances. Cairns, Thursday Island Town Counc'l, Uniform tariffs apply throughout the areas Cook Shire, shires of Mareeba Carpen supplied from the main distribution system taria, Croydon, Etheridge, Herberton, of each regional board and this is regarded Cardwell, Johnstone, Eacham, Atherton, as a valuable contribution to Mulgrave, and Douglas. Two inspectors based on Townsville responsible for Local decentralisation." Autho:ity areas of Townsville City Councll, Charters Towers City, and shires (2) "Electricity is supplied to of Ayr, Dalrymple, Flinders Winton Queensland Alumina Limited at Gladstone Richmond, McKinlay, Cloncur~y, Boulia: by the Capricornia Regional Electricity and Mount Isa. One inspector based on Board under an agreement between the Mackay responsible for Local Authority company and the Board and approved by areas of Mackay City Council, Shires the State Electricity Commission of of Proserpine, Bowen, Mirani Pioneer Queensland. The tariff which applies has Sarina, Nebo, and Broadso~nd. Tw~ been designed to recover the cost of sup inspectors based on Rockhampton plying the load and is subject eo responsible for Local Authority areas escalation to cater for changes in costs. of City of Rockhampton, Town Having regard to the magnitude and nature of Gladstone, and shires of Living of the load, the average charge per unit stone, Fitzroy, Mount Morgan, Calliope. is lower than applies to loads to which Banana, Duaringa, Emerald, Peak Downs, the Regional Board's ordinary tariffs Belyando, Bauhinia, Jericho, Tambo, apply. In accordance with the usual Blackall, Barcaldine, Aramac, Isisford, practice where special agreements are Longreach, Ilfracombe, and Barcoo. One involved, the terms and conditions of the inspector based on Bundaberg responsible agreement between the company and the for Local Authority areas of City of Board are regarded as confidential." B~ndaberg, City of Maryborough, and shires of Gooburrum, Woongarra, Miriam vale, Kolan, Isis, Burrum, Tiaro Woocoo. SAVINGS BANK DEPOSITS Biggenden, Perry, Monto, ' Eidsvold~ Gayndah, Mundubbera. Two inspectors Mr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, asked based on Toowoomba responsible for the The Premier,- Local Authority areas of City of ( 1) Has his attention been drawn to the Toowoomba, City of Warwick, towns of reference in the Telegraph of February 28 Roma, Dalby, and Goondiwindi, and regarding Savings Bank deposits? shires of Crow's Nest, Rosalie, Wambo, Jondaryan, Cambooya, Clifton, Allora, (2) As this State's increases in Savings Glengallan, Rosenthal, Pittsworth Bank deposits for January, 1967, are the Millmerran, Chinchilla, Taroom, Murilla: lowest of all Australian States, being less Tara, Waggamba, Inglewood, Stanthorpe, than one third of South Australian Balonne, Warroo, Bendemere, and Bungil. increases and much lower than Western In addition to the above there are three Australian and Tasmanian increases, to chief inspectors and three senior what does he attribute this alarming state inspectors." of affairs? Questions [2 MARCH] Questions 2435
Answers: (2) If so, will the company's ships now (1) "Yes." become subject to Commonwealth Maritime regulations, as well as the Queensland (2) "I suggest that the Honourable Marine Acts? Member would profit if he were to study the savings banks' statistics. If he did, he (3) Will all technical and industrial would find that Queensland traditionaily requirements of Commonwealth and State shows a much smaller movement in the laws have to be complied with regarding level of deposits in the month of January maritime safety regulations and union each year than other States. This is conditions? apparently related to the traditional slack in the level of seasonal activity in that Answers: month. Savings banks' deposits in Queens land rose by 8 · 42 per cent. in the 12 (1) "No." months to the end of January, 1967, and (2 and 3) "See Answer to (1)." this increase was higher than the Australian average. The increase ;n Queensland was considerably higher than that in the Labour-governed State of South RECOMMISSIONING OF CAIRNS POWER Australia and I am sure the Honourable STATION Member will be delighted to know this." Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Industrial Development,- RESIDENCES FOR SCHOOL PRINCIPALS, (!) Why has it been considered neces CAIRNS sary to commence operation of the Power House, McLeod Street, Cairns, from Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked February 28? The Minister for Education,- (2) When did this plant last operate? ( 1) Is it proposed to build residences for the principal of the Technical College ( 3 ) What is the cost involved to date and the head teachers of the Opportunity and what is the estimated cost per month and Cairns West Schools, Cairns, and have to keep the plant operating? sites been acquired? ( 4) Were any of the six diesel units (2) Will estimates be completed in time in the plant overhauled during the interim for construction to commence in the finan period? cial year 1967-68? If not, when will the residences be built? ( 5) Is it anticipated that an output of 4 megs. will be attained and will this sufficiently supplement the grid system Answers:- under existing conditions and tbe absence ( 1) "A residence will be provided for of the wet season in order to avoid future the principal of the Cairns Technical blackouts in the heavy load periods which College and also the head teacher of the can be expected in this winter? Cairns Opportunity School and the Cairns West State School. A site is being (6) Has any consideration been given to acquired for the principal's residence and an appeal within the North-Eastern area sites have been secured for the other two seeking the co-operation of consumers to houses." conserve power and, if not, will notifica tion now be given to the public of the situa (2) "No indication can be given at this tion confronting them in regard to future .iuncture as to when construction of the power supply? residences in question will be undertaken. The Honourable Member is reminded, however, that it has not been possible for Answers:- the present Government to overcome the ( I) "The Cairns diesel power station Jag left behind by the Labour administra has been recommissioned because d tion, who did not provide official shortage of water for the normal opera residences for principals of State high tion of the two hydro-electric power schools or technical colleges or for head stations in North Queensland." teachers of opportunity schools." (2) "The power station was last operated in January, 1966, to meet a local emergency." KEITH HOLLANDS SHIPPING Co. Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked (3) "The cost of maintaining the power The Treasurer,- station so far this financial year is $2,77 6. The estimated overall cost of operation (1) Is he aware of the new service under the conditions envisaged is $5,000 being undertaken by Keith Hollands Ship per week." ping Company, Cairns, involving m.s. Jm·dine? (4) "Yes." 2436 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions
(5) "The output will be between three RAIL FREIGHTS ON CHEESE and four megawatts. It is anticipated that this, in conjunction with other available Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked plant, will meet foreseeable loading for the The Minister for Transport,- remainder of the year, assuming that ( 1) Is he aware that the rail freight on normal conditions prevail." cheese from North Queensland to Bris (6) "An appeal for public co-operation bane is so high that a consignment was at this time is regarded as premature. The recently conveyed by air cheaper than by position is under the close surveillance of rail? the Northern Electric Authority and appropriate action will be taken when the (2) What are the freight rates on cheese need arises." from Brisbane to Innisfail and from Innis fail to Brisbane?
ABORIGINAL PLACE NAMES ON RoAD ( 3 ) Will he consider easing the burden SIGNS of high freights on North Queensland cheese producers? Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- Answers:- In view of the need for every effort necessary to assist in the reduction and ( 1) "I am aware that certain selected elimination of racial feeling throughout the commodities which are capable of being world and the moves being made by manu packed in small packages are carried by facturers to replace trade names which airways from North Queensland as back could aggravate racial feeling, will he con loading at low freight rates." sider changing names such as Nigger, Black Gin and Blackfellow, which appear on (2) "The freight rate for loaf cheese signs along many of our roads? in ordinary wagons Roma Street-Innlsfail and Innisfail-Roma Street is $47.67 per Answer:- ton. If exclusive use of an iced wagon "The names on signs erected by the is required the same rates apply but · are Department of Main Roads on gazetted subject to a minimum of eight tons." roads are the official names on maps (3) "It is not considered that the rail published by the Department of Lands. way rates are excessive, but if the No doubt many place names originated Honourable Member gives me details of from historical events of local significance. any particular case which he feels should The Place Names Committee, under the be considered, I will have it examined." jurisdiction of the Honourable the Minister for Lands, deals with suggestions for the alteration of place names." REVISION OF WORKERS' COMPENSATION AcT REPAIRS TO FIRE-DAMAGED HOUSE AT Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked KOWANYAMA The Treasurer,- Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked In view of his statement in Parliament The Minister for Works,- during the latter part of 1966 that he ( 1) In view of the fact that a house at intended to set up an all-party committee 17 Pindi Street, Kowanyama, was partly to fully study and revise the Workers' destroyed by fire in January, 1966, and the Compensation Act, does he still intend to urgent need for every available house to proceed with this and, if so, what progress cope with the accommodation problem, has been made? when will this damaged house be repaired? (2) Will he also arrange for an inspection Answer:- of other houses whilst the Department's "Because of my unexpected absence workmen are in the area? overseas during January and early February as the guest of the Briti~h Answer:- Government, I have not had an oppor (1 and 2) "The Department of Works is tunity to consider this matter further up not responsible for the repair and inspec to the present. However, I am aware of tion of houses at Kowanyama. It has been a number of points which were raised ascertained that the Department 0f during the debate on the Workers' Com Aboriginal and Island Affairs has ordered pensation Acts Amendment Bill in the materials for the repair of the house last session of Parliament, and I do intend at 17 Pindi Street, Kowanyama. It is to examine these matters at the first proposed to transport the materials ro available opportunity. When I do I will Kowanyama when roads become trafficable request the Leader of the Opposition to after the end of the rainy season and to appoint two of his members, to join with have the necessary repairs effected as three Government members in discussion soon as possible thereafter." with me." Papers [2 MARCH) Privilege 2437
BITUMEN-SEALING, BIBOOHRA-MT. FORM OF QUESTION MOLLOY RoAD Mr. MANN (Brisbane) having given notice Mr. Adair, pursuant to notice, asked The of a question- Minister for Mines,- Has the Main Roads Department plans Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I have some doubt for the bitumen-sealing of the remaining whether the latter part of the hon. member's section of the road between Biboohra and question is in order. Mt. Molloy? If so, when will work commence? PRIVILEGE Answer:- USE OF PARLIAMENTARY LIBRARY PHOTOGRAPHIC EQUIPMFNT ''The design is well in hand and it is hoped that funds can be made available Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (11.36 in next financial year." a.m.): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege. One of the conveniences and facilities that have been introduced by this REBUILDING OF MT. MOLLOY SAWMILL Government-and it is one that is very much Mr. Adair, pursuant to notice, asked The appreciated by hon. members-is the photo Minister for Local Government,- graphic equipment operated by the Library staff to photograph documents, questions, As residents of Mt. Molloy are con papers, etc., for the convenience of hon. ~erned at the lengthy delay in the reopen members. Yesterday afternoon, at about mg of the sawmill there, when will rebuild 3 o'clock, I took into the Library a Minis ing work commence? ter's reply to a question in order to have it photographed because I needed it urgently. 1 Answer:- was told that it could not be photographed "The licensees of the Mt. Molloy because the photographic equipment was in sawmill have given assurances that they the top Library and that no member of the will rebuild the mill and it was anticipated Library staff was allowed to go into the top that rebuilding would have commenced Library, into the cataloguing room or onto before now. Recently I instructed tile the veranda of Parliament House while a Conservator of Forests to contact me party-political Caucus meeting was being licensees with the object of getting o;nme held in the old Legislative Council Chamber. concrete advice on the rebuilding of the Consequently, I had to arrange to have a mill. When advice is received I will pass copy made by antiquated means. it on to the Honourable Member." I understand that this is a relic of the previous Labour administration. I do not want to be dogmatic about it, Mr. Speaker, NEW SCHOOL BUILDING AT MT. MOLLOY but I should like you to inform the House Mr. Adair, pursuant to notice, asked The why this restriction, which I think is deplor Minister for Education,- able, is applied to members of the Library staff when the old Legislative Council When will work commence on the Chamber is being used for a party-political building of the new school at Mt. Molloy? Caucus meeting. Answer:- Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member "No indication can be given at present for Townsville South has raised a point. as to when a new school building will he I must inform hon. members that I was unaware of this fact until this morning, provided at Mt. Molloy. This project when the Clerk advised me that the hon. will, however, receive consideration la~er in the current financial year in relar:m1 member was going to make a complaint b to available finance." the House. I should like to inform all hon. members that there is no necessity for them to raise PAPERS problems associated with the conduct of this House, or the use of conveniences or priv The following papers were laid on the ileges pertaining to hon. members, in this table:- Chamber. My room is open, and I am Orders in Council under- always available to hon. members who wish The Supreme Court Act of 1921. to call on me and express their thoughts to me personally. If they are unable to do The Rural Fires Acts, 1946 to 1964. that I am very happy to receive word from them in writing. Regulations under the Collections Act of 1966. This is the first occasion on which this matter has been brought to my attention, Reports on the investigation into the and I have no hesitation in saying that I will affairs of the Australian Stock Breeders investigate it and see if some alteration can Company Limited under the Com be made. I tell hon. members frankly that panies Acts, 1961 to 1964. I think it is a poor spirit if members raise in 2438 Grievances [ASSEMBLY] Grievances
this Chamber matters pertaining to the Government by the Royal Australian House and to members themselves when they Nursing Federation. Apparently either no can quite easily obtain a remedy by approach action has been taken on those represen mg me. tations or, if it has, it has not been to the liking of the federation. Mr. ~IKENS: I rise to a point of order; 1 was given to understand that I would have Le•t me say on behalf of the Opposition to raise the matter on a point of privilege. that we would be happy to assist the Govern ment in any way to ensure that these ladies receive justice in respect of their various GRIEVANCES claims. After all, the welfare of the com munity depends to a large extent on the Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I state the question- training and capability of nursing staff. In country hospitals in particular the matron or "That grievances be noted." sister-in-charge has tremendous respon sibilities. We know from experience that as INQUIRY BY PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE a result of the shortage of doctors quite often INTO NURSING SERVICES the nurse in charge of the hospital or on Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the duty for the day has the responsibility of Opposition) ( 11.41 a.m.): My grievance determining whether or not a patient should concerns the training and function of nurses be admitted to hospital. Nursing staff have and nursing aid~s in this State. At this stage the continuing responsibility of relieving pain my remarks w!ll refer primarily to female and suffering. Therefore I think it is abso staff, but I should imagine that whatever lutely necessary to ensure that nurses are applies to them would apply also to male adequately trained. We cannot allow the staff. thought of minor additional expenditure to prevent an improvement in the training of I request an investigation into all matters nurses so that they will be competent to do rel~ting to the nursing services, nursing edu the work required of them. catlOn, the function and activities of the Nurs~~ Board, and the general employment To back my request for an investigation, conditlOns of nurses. I realise tha>t the I will deal first with nurses. It is a fact appointment of a commission of inquiry pre that in the four-year training period the wast s~ded over by a judge could be very expen age of nurses is over 65 per cent. When I sive. I feel that an inquiry conducted by first became acquainted with that fact I was members o~ P3:rliament with the necessary astounded to discover that of every 100 powers to mquire could obtain exactly the nurses who go into training, 65 leave the same results. In addition, such an inquiry service and only 35 complete the course would J;>e a means of making some members by the time the four-year period is completed. of ParhameJ?t fully. conversant with the pro ln the last four years, over 3,000 student blems associated With nursing and the care nurses have failed to complete their training. of the sick in this State. ~herefore to save That is not a figment of my imagination; the expense and to give some members' of Par figure is taken from the annual report of the liament an insight into this problem I suggest Department of Health. I think an investiga that. an inquiry be carried out by an all-party tion to discover why there is such a tremend parliamentary committee vested with full ous loss of nurses during the training period powers of inquiry. I would not want such would be worth while. a committee to be similar to the one I sat A girl of 17 may be employed as a nurse on which inquired into third-party insurance without any school qualifications as we and became bogged down because it did not recognise them today. She need only have have authority to investigate matters that attended school up to 15 years of age. The could. be said to be of a privileged nature. qualification is "schooling up to Junior I believe _that if an investigation is to be standard". It is not necessary to have a worth while, all the necessary information 1 unior pass. When a girl is admitted she is should be made available to it. given a four weeks' training course. Girls I feel that because of their oath of office who have not had very much secondary and their community representation members education may benefit from four weeks' train of_ Parlia~ent a~e the proper people to do ing, at 40 hours a week. However, I am led th1s. It IS certamly my view th Many instances could be given of first 1 lb. 6 oz. That means that we are getting year and second-year student nurses being only 40 per cent. of fish in what we buy in required to take charge of wards. That is that form. In New South Wales, according not in the best interests either of nursing or to an article in "The Courier-Mail" of of the sick. It is well known that at times 21 February, 50 per cent. of the purchase is third-year and fourth-year nurses have to cooked fish and the other 50 per cent. is take complete charge of a hospital. batter. Queensland holds the record, because Another fact that concerns me greatly we get only 40 per cent. of fish. about the training of nurses is that they have The inflationary trend in fish prices, how to do so many domestic chores. There would ever, starts before that stage is reached. The be a great hue and cry if an apprentice was latest method of presenting fish in Rock required to do nothing other than clean out a hampton is in fancy packets of frozen fillets. workshop and dust down machines, yet it is Previously, uncleaned and uncooked fish was a recognised fact that in their first year nurses sold by the pound, whereas today fishermen are required to do much of this work. The fillet the fish and present it in a variety of nursing profession today is so specialised that packages. Deceptive weights are recorded on nurses should be used only for nursing work. some packages. After the packets are thawed Certainly they must be trained, but there are out they weigh much less than the weights others who should be doing the domestic recorded on them. On Monday I was invited work. Nurses should be used only in helping into a fish shop in Rockhampton and asked to cure and look after the sick. to weigh five of these packages which con We also know that nurses have very little tained sweetlip. On each of them the weight protection. They are not covered by a cadet was recorded as 7 lb., but in fact, when ship or an apprenticeship. They are not thawed out, two of them weighed 5 lb. 11 bound in any way. They are employed on oz., two weighed 5 lb. 12 oz., and one weighed a weekly hire-and-fire basis. What security 5 lb. 13 oz. There is no doubt that some is there for a girl who is employed under fish have a greater capacity than others to such conditions when she can be given a hold water, and sweetlip seems to be one of week's notice at any stage of her training? the worst offenders. There is a feeling in Surely she should not be completely at the the minds of many people connected with the mercy of the matron or the board. I believe sale of fish that fillets are deliberately dipped that the nursing profession should be on an or soaked in salt water before they are frozen, equal, if not a better, footing to apprentices. and the water in them is frozen also. Personally, I should like to see them covered Mr. Aikens: Like corned beef that is by some form of cadetship or indentures, pumped up with brine. with certain rights so that they will feel they have protection. We should investigate all Mr. PILBEAM: Yes. The purchaser has aspects of the nursing profession. I stress, to pay for the frozen salt water. There is no tno. that there is no educator nurse on the doubt that the consumer ultimately pays for Nurses Board. In other States there is, so it. Some fishermen in Rockhampton appre the syllabus can be varied from time to time ciate this problem and allow a little extra as methods !lnd conditions improve, and weight. This is to counteract the fact that nurses can be mstructed how to carry out their some moisture has to be frozen into the fish. duties effectively. To my mind, there are only two ways in I urge the House, and the Minister for which the retailer can overcome this problem. Health in particular, to consider this matter. If he cooks the fish, extra batter is included. I am not discussing it on a political basis. I strongly object to that, and I think every There are many other points that I could body else does, too. If fresh fish is being mention. My main complaint is that nurses sold, the only way the retailer can avoid going are not recognised or given an opportunity broke is to increase the price of fish to the to become proficient in their chosen occupa housewife. When fish are scarce, some house tion. They should be given that opportunity wives are quite willing to pay high prices for so that the people of this State will know it. It is not fair, however, that fish should be that they are getting the best available care priced off the plates of those not in the and attention. higher-income bracket. It is not good to see (Time expired.) fish priced at 75c a pound, and one reason for the high price is the water that is frozen FISH PRICES; AIRLINE DME-TABLES in the fancy packs. Mr. PILBEAM (Rockhampton South) I am also concerned with the operations of (11.51 a.m.): I welcome this opportunity to the airlines and their time-tables. Between air a few small grievances that are agitating August 1966 and last month a committee of the minds of the people in my electorate investigation into airline time-tables, under the and, I venture to say, the minds of people in chairmanship of Mr. R. W. Gross, sat in this other parts of the State. State. I am informed that the investigation The first grievance relates to the price of has been completed and that the committee fish. It was illuminating to read in the latest has presented a report. Whilst the committee issue of "The Sunday Mail" that we get so was investigating these matters in Rockhamp much batter when we buy cooked fish. A ton, the airline service seemed to be satis number of pieces of cooked fish were weighed. factory. I gave evidence to the effect that I The total weight was 3 lb. 7 oz., of which was quite satisfied with the service, the times the batter weighed 2 lb. 1 oz. and the fish of departure and arrival, and so on. 2440 Grievances [ASSEMBLY] Grievances Before the committee's report was pre raise questions of Budget priorities and sented, however, noticeable changes were administration and of what we expect from made in airline time-tables. I take strong hospital services. Having said that, I intend exception to the fact that the time of to outline briefly the situation as it was departure of the early-morning service from and then state the conclusions that seem Rockhampton has been changed to about half to my mind to be of importance and that an hour later, with the result that business I think should receive the earnest considera people from Rockhampton do not arrive in tion of the Parliament, and of the Minister Brisbane till after 11 o'clock. This no doubt and his departmental officers. allows passengers from Mackay to leave that city a little later, but I do not see why the The infant concerned was taken to the tail should wag the dog. The Mackay people hospital out-patients' department about mid already have a pretty good service. day on 1 October, 1966. The doctor who examined him said he could see the child The people of Rockhampton also object to was not well but that he could find nothing broken journeys. Before the time-tables were definite that was wrong. He prescribed altered it was possible to make a quick trip nose drops and a mixture for the stomach. every day from Rockhampton to Brisbane. At 6 p.m., as the child was obviously ill Now, about every second morning we seem and had been in pain all the afternoon, to have a broken journey, with the aircraft he was taken to the West Brisbane Clinic, touching down at Maryborough or Bunda in my electorate, where he was given a berg. This is by no means a satisfactory thorough examination. I am leaving out state of affairs. all names, medical and otherwise, because Another thing agitating the minds of air I do not think they are relevant. The travellers is the unreasonable amount of time doctor concerned thought that the infant it takes to receive luggage at air terminals. was potentially a very sick child and advised Quite often passengers have to wait 10 to 15 immediate hospitalisation for observation and minutes 1o receive their baggage. In these tests. I stress the words "immediate hospital days of containerisation and palletisation, isation for observation and tests." He surely the airlines have sufficient ingenuity provided a letter of introduction to the to devise a means of placing luggage in con haspital in which, it was subsequently dis tainers that can be readily unloaded so that closed, he stated that he suspected meningitis passengers do not have to wait an unreason and suggested that a lumbar puncture be able length of time for their luggage at taken to prove the presence of the disease terminals. or otherwise. Mr. Aikens: If you were as poor as the At 6.40 p.m. the child was taken to rest of us, you wouldn't have any luggage. the out-patient's department of the Royal Brisbane Children's Hospital where he was Mr. PILBEAM: I think we would all have examined by two doctors and X-rayed before some. I welcome this opportunity to air these admission, the doctor who admitted him matters in the House. stating that the nature of the illness could not be specified, but that it was not men DEATH OF INFANT IN ROYAL BRISBANE ingitis. HOSPITAL On the following Monday the parents were informed by the ward doctor, I understand, Mr. HANLON (Baroona) (I 1.59 a.m.): The that the child had slight pneumonia; he matter that I wish to bring before the House reiterated that meningitis had been checked arises from the experience of parents of an out, but suspected a blood complaint. The infant who was admitted to the Royal senior pediatric consultant had seen the Brisbane Hospital for an illness, which regret child earlier on the Monday following his tably he failed to survive, in October last admission on the Saturday evening and year. I want to say that the parents of the ordered that certain blood tests be made. infant took the matter up with the Minister These tests would take, I understand, up for Health, who gave it careful consideration to 48 hours to complete. On the Tuesday and replied to them. In asking me to ven the ward doctor advised the parents that tilate it further, I make it clear that they are the child had meningitis. A lumbar puncture not acting with any feeling of bitterness or had finally been taken. recrimination. They have bravely accepted the personal loss of their son, aspects of In the words of the parents themselves, which were particularly distressing to them subsequent to that, in spite of devoted nursing, and, in retrospect, I think to all of us. They the child showed marked deterioration and feel that the matter should be further ven died at approximately 1.30 a.m. on the tilated rather than left at the truism, with following Tuesday, 11 October. which the Minister ended his reply to them, The questions that seem to arise, to my that "it is a matter of great regret that this mind-I have to confine them to the time situation does occasionally arise". available in this grievance session-out of For my part, I am pleased to be able the experience of these parents are- to deal with this matter initially as a grievance 1. Is too much reliance and respon rather than in a political context in a debate sibility being placed on junior medical at some other time. It is true that it does staff? Grievances [2 MARCH] Grievances 2441 2. Is senior supervision of a satisfactory theoretically, and if it is necessary for some extent and effect in the circumstances? one almost to stick his neck right out to get 3. Is specialist attention at the hospital urgent priority in cases such as this, then in these circumstances more of a fringe here again the services seem to be available nature until the patient reaches a danger more in theory than in practice. ously ill condition? If so, can any The week-end hiatus to which I referred improvement be effected in this regard? is accentuated, I would say, because many people-this was not the case in this 4. Is there, particularly at week-ends, instance-naturally tend to feel that they a potentially dangerous hiatus between would prefer not to disturb their private admission and adequate examination by doctor at the week-end unless it is absolutely specialists and the setting in motion of necessary or unless they think they can get tests? him because a common practice has developed 5. Does this hiatus apply particularly in this respect today-! do not necessarily to laboratory services at week-ends so that, take any objection to it so far as private although theoretically they are available, practice is concerned-with the result that we there is a hesitancy to call for priority get a build-up of cases such as this going for them except in very extreme and to the hospital at the very time when obvious cases? we do not seem to have the set-up and services available, particularly specialists 6. Is this week-end hiatus appropriate and testing services. In this instance the to the practical consequences of the pattern parents naturally feel that had a lumbar of medical practice today? puncture test been instituted earlier, and I refer here to medical practice outside had more attention been given to the sug the hospital, which seems to place the hospital gestion even though it was a speculative under incre.asing pressure at week-ends, at diagnosis-and had it been followed up the very time when this hiatus exists in quickly by a specialist examining the child the hospital itself and in the services that as thoroughly as the doctor himself when it gives to the public. he queried meningitis in the letter sent to the hospital, possibly the drugs that are I will try to deal with these questions untilised in such circumstances could have in the time that I have remaining to me. been brought into play earlier. It is Firstly, is too much reliance and respon impossible to say, of course, whether or sibility placed on junior medical staff? I not that would have saved the life of this think it would be somewhat alarming to infant, but it gives rise to the question in the average parent-indeed to all of us-to these circumstances of whether there is this think that, where an e~perienced doctor gap in time. reac.hes a decision that he is virtually baffled by Illness that he considers requires immed In many cases, as I appreciate, and as iate hospitalisation and tests, a child should other hon. members who have young children would know, at times when children are ill, be at~ended to by a doctor who, generally they can look very ill even though they may speakmg, may n It is sad that this child died and that the focused on it. It is a challenge to Govern cause of death was undiagnosable due to ment agencies to recognise it and to do some the absence of signs and symptoms. I thing about it. am advised that everything possible was done for the child while in hospital and that Some aspects of the Press article are in fact there was no neglect whatsoever. The doctor true. I could quote many instances of mis who sent the child in said that he could conduct by the undesirable element in those not "label" him, and the diagnosis was not areas. That element frequents not only the established in hospital until post-mortem. particular streets that I refer to but also certain hotels and certain parks, including UNDESIRABLE ELEMENT IN SOUTH BRISBANE Musgrave Park and Dutton Park. I have had AREA many complaints from constituents in this area about undesirables going to certain Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) (12.18 p.m.): I sections of Dutton Park. I have notified the desire to speak on what I believe is a police and the city council of that fact and matter that should exercise the attention of have asked that certain sections of those those in Government and authority in both parks be cleaned up. If that were done it the State and the Federal spheres. It is would assist the Police Force to police the a blot on the city of Brisbane and a parks. Policemen have a job to do and I do challenge to Government agencies. I speak not question that they do it as well as they of the quarter-square-mile of degradation can. I have gone through Dutton Park on and depravity that is known by many hon. many occasions and have seen evidence of members, and certainly by many citizens in bottle parties and cavor.tings. When a po.lice the area, to exist at South Brisbane. It vehicle drives through those parks at rught is the quarter-square-mile from Melbourne its light is seen and the people who frequent Street to Russell Street and the adjacent the parks secrete themselves in other places, areas where people walk around, many of and then, as soon as the police car leaves, them with a hopeless expression. It is a they come out again. I have asked the magnet for those who are wasting away council on occasions to co-operate in cleaning their life and for those who, impulsively, up those pockets. are not exercising a great deal of discretion and gravitate to the area. We know that, In this quarter of a square mile there are in fact, many of them finish with the D.T's. fights depravity, degradation, disgraceful exhibitionism, drinking in public, soliciting, This matter was raised some time ago general misbehaviour, and rowdiness. That by the "Telegraph", and it has been a subject occurs around .the Manhattan Hotel and in of discussion in this House and in other the Russell, Stanley and Melbourne Street places. Only yesterday we heard a reply areas. I have personally approached members from the Minister to a question asked by of the Police Force at the corner of the hon. member for Toowong relating to Melbourne and Grey Streets and informed a police investigation in this area. I do not them of certain things, and as a result they believe for one moment that there has been have gone along and quelled a disturbance. an attempt to whitewash something that a When the Bohemia Service Station was there number of us know to exist. There are it was the scene of bottle parties and the one or two statements in the reply which bear congregation of a number of human de~elicts, scrutiny. The "Telegraph" did a public both white and coloured. The hotels m the service and exercised a sense of respon area-two in particular-are the mecca of sibility in bringing this matter before public drunken derelicts. That is referred to in the attention. I know the situation exists, and report of the Minister for Education and in so do many other hon. members. If they the "Telegraph". have not had any personal experience with it, they must surely have heard about it. I pay a tribute to Mrs. Wilding and OPAL Mr. Walsh: If you look around you will for the work rt:hey have done for those on find even white people in a similar condition. whom they are lavishing their unselfish care and attention. In Musgrave Park and many other places the daylight hours are whiled Mr. HUGHES: That suggests that this away by these dead-beats, and at night relates only to coloured people. I did not "plonk" and "metho" bottles pass from hand say that. Apparently that is the trend of the to hand and from lip to lip. It is a place to hon. member's thoughts. be avoided. It is a frightening situation to Mr. Walsh: That is what the Press reported. our womenfolk. We should face faots. Let us be honest enough to admit that the matter Mr. HUGHES: It refers .to white people as has been brought to light by the "Telegraph", well. I do not suggest that this is confined to carrying out its public responsibility. I say the coloured population. There are many in fairness Although many coloured and white people Before school resumed in January of this do not seem to have proper attitudes towards year, two ladies from Major's Creek, which life, I do not think society should write them is about 27 miles from Townsville, visited me off. The problem has to be recognised. at my home and expressed concern that no There is a need for interest to be shown by provision was made that would allow them to welfare authorities in coloured people and give their children the advantages of their children, because they predominate in secondary education. I told them that when the area. One could perhaps be blunt and the Minister for Education had introduced uncharitable and go as far as saying that his Estimates during last year he had some of these people are the dregs of informed Parliament that it was the Govern humanity. Many have let themselves slip ment's intention to introduce a remote-areas and do nothing to try to help themselves. Junior allowance. This allowance was to They should realise that there are oppor consist of the payment of $4 a week, without tunities to work under the protection of a means test, to children who had to live awards and industrial standards, and, more away from home to attend a secondary than anything else, they need to help them school. With a means test, the old living selves. away-from-home allowance and the scholar We, as a Government, should take the ship allowance would also be included, which initiative. The Departments of Children's could bring it up to $11 or $12 a week. Services, Labour and Industry, Health, and I suggested to these ladies that, as one Police, in co-operation with the Common of them owned a Customline car and was wealth Department of Social Services and a competent driver and was willing to make the Commonwealth Employment Service, a trip to and from Townsville daily, no could well set up a counselling bureau in the doubt the Minister would extend to them area. If this proved a success over a trial the same concessions as he would to parents period, possibly a similar organisation could whose children were forced to live away be set up in other areas of the State where from home. To me it seemed quite a the same type of problem, in a minor way, simple matter, because the only difference is found. The bureau would need to be would be that the six children at Woodstock staffed by sympathetic, knowledgeable and and Major's Creek would be at home each experienced officers who would be able to offer guidance, advice and assistance in such night and under the remote-areas allowance things as employment, health, and the welfare they would have to live away from home. and education of children. If the six children were prepared to live in Townsville, the allowance would be paid The spotlight of public attention has quite without any difficulty; so the Government rightly, in a responsible way, been focused would not exceed its estimated cost if it on the problem by the metropolitan Press. made the allowance available to the parents Now that this has happened, the problem of these children in order to reimburse should be recognised and an attempt made to the owner of the car, who was also the do something about it in a practical and driver of the car, for the service that she tangible way. I know that the material on was giving to make it possible for the which to work may leave a lot to be desired. children to have a secondary education. I Nevertheless, let us go ahead and see what put this suggestion to the Minister, thinking can be done. I believe that the Government that he would give ready approval to it, could well give consideration to setting up but his reply was, "It is not possible to some form of office in South Brisbane and depart from the established practice in the appointing to it a person with suitable granting and payment of the remote-areas experience and the right attitude who would Junior allowance". To me it seemed quite not merely sit in a chair but go out among the people. They complain that when they possible; that it was only a matter of get work they are improperly treated and are willingness to accept the proposal submitted. not paid according to the relevant awards. The conditions to which I have referred Let us see that greater opportunities are do not apply only in places such as Major's given to them, ~nd let us try psychologically, Creek and Woodstock. They exist also at as well as practically and physically, to help Mingela and Haughton Valley in my elector them return to society. I believe that if we ate, and I have no doubt that similar give a lead, much could be done, even if we conditions exist in a number of other country were able to rehabilitate only some families electorates. The people of Major's Creek and their children. and Woodstock could not afford the cost of boarding their children away from home, but the lady who was to drive the vehicle REMOTE-AREAS JUNIOR ALLOWANCE would have been prepared to undertake the Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) (12.29 p.m.): My service provided that the parents of the six grievance arises from the failure of the children paid her the allowance of $4 a Minister for Education to accede to a request week that would be granted under the I submitted to him that the remote-areas scheme. The alternatives are these: if the Junior allowance be paid to parents of children cannot make that journey daily, children in country areas where no school bus either they will be denied the advantage transport service operates and who are obliged of a secondary education or they will have to travel long distances to neighbouring towns to undertake it by correspondence. A to attend secondary schools for their correspondence course is better than nothing, secondary education. but it would be very difficult for these Grievances (2 MARCH] Grievances 2445 children to undertake it successfully because Mr. COBURN: They do if they are affluent in most cases their parents and others living enough to do it. To me, this is a simple in the district have not reached that standard maHer. Our sole aim should be to provide of education themselves and would be of children with the facilities to allow them to little assistance to them. obtain a secondary education. They could be One could understand the Government's of tremendous value to the State and to I drew attention to an article in the Mackay ]jt is wrong for the Government to stand "Daily Mercury", the information contained idly by and say that the position in my elec in which was supplied by the Mackay torate is not as bad as I am making out. To Regional Committee. It must be realised refute that statement I will refer to statistics that that committee was set up by this on unemployment published by the Common Government for the purpose of collating wealth Government. It is useless for the information about the possibility of estab Government to claim that the unemployment lishing industries in Mackay. Since it has is purely seasonal. been in operation it has done considerable work and collated a tremendous amount of Mr. Mann: Do you think the Government information about the potential of the Mackay cares about it? area. It has endeavoured to encourage indus try into the area by getting in touch with Mr. GRAHAM: As I said in my opening industrial magnates all over the world. It remarks, the Government does not care one has received the co-operation of all bodies iota. It has adopted a don't-care attitude in Mackay, including the local authority, the when it should be doing something about it. Chamber of Commerce, and the Trades and The Mackay Regional Bureau has indicated Labour Council. On more than one occasion just how serious the position is in Mackay. I it has drawn the Government's attention to will refer to unemployment not during the the unsatisfactory position in Mackay. slack season, but when the sugar mills are As an indication of the attitude of those working. If we take the figures for the opposed to the Australian Labour Party, I crushing season, bearing in mind that the draw attention to a statement by Mr. J. R. Premier said the unemployment was due James, the mouthpiece of the Queensland solely to seasonal conditions, there should Employers' Federation, who said- be no unemployment in Mackay when seven "The crocodile tears currently shed by mills are working. However, we find that Queensland Trades and Labour Council through July, August, September, October over unemployment would contribute noth and November, in the middle of the crushing ing to the problem." season, there were as many as 300 unemployed in September, 123 in October, The unemployment problem has been brought 124 in July, and so on. before the notice of the Government not only To mY way of thinking, the Government by the Trades and Labour Council, but by other bodies as well. I think it was on has not tried to encourage the establishment 21 February that the Trades and Labour of secondary industries in Mackay. We have Council in Mackay wrote to the Premier ample proof of the Government's attitude to drawing his attention to the position in that secondary industry in articles published by city. In addition, the Premier has had cor the Government on industrial development. respondence from the Mackay Chamber of If we examine the documents-maybe I will ._:ommerce and from time to time has had have an occasion to talk about them at a requests from the Mackay City Council for later stage-we see that the North, with the funds to assist in the allevation of unemploy exception of one or two cities, has been ment in Mackay. For anybody to say that completely isolated from industrial develop the Trades and Labour Council's protest about ment. That is apparent in the attitude of the unemployment would contribute nothing to Government, which has not given sufficient the problem and for the Premier to say that recognition to the needs of the northern areas the Government had the matter in hand by of the State, particularly Mackay. Until the carefully watching it does nothing to assist. Government realises what is necessary and makes a definite approach to this important In his reply to my question the Premier problem, it will not receive the approbation said that he felt that the situation was not as of the people of the North. On the contrary, bad as I made out. I should like to know how bad it has to be before the Government it will continue to receive their criticism. considers that it is serious. Figures supplied (Time expired.) by the statistical department of the Common wealth Employment Service indicate that in December last year there were 1,747 PLIGHT OF SUGAR INDUSTRY unemployed persons in Mackay. The position Mr. ADAIR (Cook) (12.49 p.m.): The hon. improved somewhat during January. member for Mackay referred to unemploy With only t per cent. of Australia's popu ment in his area. I assure him that with the lation-as I said in my question to the present position of the sugar industry and Premier-and 4 per cent. of the nation's the low price of its product on the overseas unemployed, it must be realised that unem market, there will be much more unemploy ployment in Mackay is rife. It is a scourge; ment not only in Mackay but throughout it is a means of destroying the foundation Queensland. With the present conditions, I on which family life is built, and a means of can see no way that there can be any increase destroying the uplift in the community. We in the price of sugar on the overseas market. know that those who are forced to accept Throughout the North, from Innisfail to unemployment assistance must reduce their Mossman, I know many settlers and farmers standards because of a lower income, and who have taken on new farms in the sugar they must draw on their savings if they try industry. I also know the problems they are to maintain their standards. facing. Several farmers have already left Grievances [2 MARCH] Grievances 2447 the industry, and if the price does not BRISBANE CITY COUNCIL ELECTIONS improve or if the Government does not grant financial assistance, a large number Mr. W. D. HEWITT (Chatsworth) (12.56 of new farmers will leave the industry. In p.m.): I want to draw the attention of the addition, as time goes on, when the estab House to the provisions of section 16 (1) of lished farmers who are feeling the pinch the City of Brisbane Acts, 1924 to 1960, now have to replace machinery and other which lays down the time for triennial Bris articles, they will need to tighten their bane City Council elections. It provides-- purse strings and there will be more unemployment in the North. The Govern "The next triennial election under 'The ment has a great responsibility in this matter. City of Brisbane Acts, 1924 to 1936,' of The $19,000,000 granted by the Federal Gov the Mayor and aldermen shall be held on ernment has done very little to assist the the last Saturday in April, one thousand industry. nine hundred and thirty-seven, and there after in every third year on the last Satur Mr. Aikens: How was it distributed? day in April: Mr. ADAIR: So much went to the mills "Provided that if in the year of any and so much to the farmers. I think triennial election Anzac Day or the the farmers received about $8,000,000. Saturday next following Good Friday falls on the last Saturday in the month of Mr. Row: The industry asked for $19,000,000. April, the election shall be held on the first Saturday in the month of May of Mr. ADAIR: I know. At the time I that year." thought it was ridiculous; I considered that The result of restricting the time within double that amount would be needed. That such narrow limits is that time and time money has to be paid back and that cannot again an election is held on the Saturday be done if the present trend is maintained. of what is commonly referred to as a Today I spoke to farmers who are in "long" week-end, the following Monday being Brisbane attending the industry conference. a declared public holiday. In the case of There should be a full investigation into this election, it is usually Labour Day. the refining costs of the C.S.R. Co. Ltd. I do not think such an investigation has Many thousands of people, when they ever been carried out. I think it should have a long week-end on their hands, go be, even though the C.S.R. is the selling to nearby resorts, leaving the city on either agent for the Government. Friday evening or very early Saturday morning. They therefore have to avail Mr. Aikens: Do you know that the C.S.R. themselves of what is commonly called sec gets so much a pound for refining the tional voting. For the people concerned, this sugar and then grabs all the by-products? creates some inconvenience, and for the returning officers who are handling the elec Mr. ADAIR: That is quite right. The tion it involves a large volume of work. A result of such an investigation would be study of the figures for the 1963 State elec that a good deal of its profit would be tion and the 1964 council election tell a put back into the industry. No. I Pool rather revealing story. At the 1963 State has gone forever. All sugar is now sold at election, sectional votes cast totalled 30,171, a price negotiated with England, America, or 9 · 36 per cent. of the total votes cast. A and other countries. As time goes on more year later, at the 1964 council election, and more farmers will be forced out ~f this which was held during a long week-end, sec industry. The Government should take from tional votes totalled 45,552, or 13 · 99 per the C.S.R. the job of selling sugar on the cent. of the total votes. The increase domestic market. On television and radio from one year to the next was 15,381 we see the selling campaign adopted by sectional votes. If that number is averaged Rothmans and several soap manufacturers. over the 28 returning officers who have the !'!othing is ever heard about the sugar task of organising the election, it will be ~ndustry. All that we ~re told is that sugar found that each of those gentlemen is asked IS some sort of a po1son and that if we to process an additional 549 sectional votes. eat too much of it we will get fat. One never sees advertising directed at promoting the Even that is not the end of the story. If sale of sugar. we look at the numbers of people who bothered to cast votes at all, again an The sugar industry is in a bad mess interesting story is found. At the 1963 and the Government should act to clea~ State election the valid votes cast represented !t up. The Minister for Primary Industries 94 ·53 per cent. of those on the roll. In IS a man who knows the industry the following year at the council election the and what is going on in it, and he no percentage decreased to 92 · 11. doubt realises that if something is not done very shortly many cane farmers will have Question-that grievances be noted to leave this very important industry, which agreed to. the Far North of Queensland cannot afford to lose. [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] 2448 Radioactive Substances [ASSEMBLY] Act Amendment Bill In accordance with Sessional Order, the fundamental. I was taught to keep a:vay House proceeded with Government business. from the machine while it was in operatiOn. In most cases the patient held the film in RADIOACTIVE SUBSTANCES ACT his mouth and whoever was operating the machine stood about 5 or 6 feet away from it AMENDMENT BILL while the picture was taken. lNITL<\TION IN COMMITTEE-RESUMPTION That position would apply to most dental OF DEBATE attendants who, I think, still operate X-ray (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, apparatus in dental surgeries. They have Greenslopes, in the chair) very little instruction in the use of X-rays. Debate resumed from 1 March (see p. I understand there is a dental attendant's 2430) on Mr. Tooth's motion- course now and they may get more instruc tion; but so far as radiographers are con "That a Bill be introduced to amend the cerned, particularly those en:;ployed by Radioactive Substances Act of 1958 in doctors and in the X-ray sectiOns at the certain particulars." Royal Brisbane and Princess Alexandra Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (2.16 p.m.): I wish Hospitals, they have built around. t~~mselv~ to take oart in the debate mainly because, at a certain standard which was ITIItiated m various times and for various periods, I have the first place by the Radiographers' Socie.ty, operated X-ray apparatus in a dental surgery, as I think they call themselves,. and. which sometimes under the supervision of a dentist, set down requirements for registratiOn . as sometimes without supervision. In my radiographers. They established a Semor opinion, there should be a definition making pass as the standard. Whether or not that it clear who is and is not permitted to use is justified, I do not know. I once he~rd X-ray apparatus. radioaraphers described by a very semor member of the Industrial Court as J?.O J?O!e Although hon. members do not know at than glorified photographers. Certam 1t IS, this stage exactly what the Bill contains-as I think, that the standard they have set upon the Leader of the Opposition said, we will themselves is unnecessary. have to examine it to get the details-the Minister indicated in his introductory remarks I think the real responsibility lies with the that it includes certain provisions relating to doctor. If one talks to radiographers one people who operate X-ray apparatus. I under finds that they try to create the ir:'pressi?n stand that these provisions relate more to that they are therapeutic, or even dia!fnostic, diagnostic use than to therapeutic use of radiographers. Actually, they do no diagnos X-rays. It is a fact that X-ray apparatus in ing. They only take the radio pictu~e. dental surgeries quite frequently is operated Of course I appreciate that they do reqmre by dental attendants and, as my own experi a knowleclae of bone structure and perhaps ence indicates, sometimes under supervision, a general \nowledge of physiology, but _a sometimes without supervision, as I said. glance through their .course . shows that. It Whether or not that is good is a matter for give·s quite a deal of mstr~ct10n on hospital conjecture, but I think a certain amount of administration and electromc knowledge. But responsibility devolves upon the manufac much of the course, from what I saw in the turers of X-ray machines or apparatus to booklet covering it, provides for a study ensure that there is no unnecessary distribu that is not actually associated with the tion of irradiation. It should be possible for work that they carry out. them to provide machines that confine the The point I am making is just ~'?'Y far ray to the actual site of application so that we should go in assessing the responsibility of there will not be any risk to the person radiographers in medicine.. I think the operating them, to the patient, or to anybody doctor himself would outline very clearly who might be in the room. to the radiographer what picture he want~d, where he wanted it, the angle at which I shall confine my remarks to machines in dental surgeries, because they are the only he wanted it taken, and so on. . I reali~e, of course, that the radiographer might requ!re ones with which I have had much experience. to have some knowledge of the respective I think it is desirable that full protection positions in the skeleton so that he would should be given by these machines. As a be able to take the picture without any matter of fact, I was employed by a dentist elongations, shadows or distortions on the who was, I think, one of the first in Brisbane film. to install an X-ray machine in his surgery-it was in about 1924-and it was the occasion Mr. Aikens: Sometimes a doctor ma~ks for quite a spate of advertising. At that time the patient with a blue pencil for the radw it was lawful for dentists to advertise, and grapher's benefit. the dentist by whom I was employed put out a colourful brochure headed "Don't risk Mr. MELLOY: That is true. I think the dentistry in the dark." It was quite a success standard of these radiographers is som7- ful advertising gimmick as far as he was con what over-rated. They must have a certam cerned. standard of education and intelligence to enable them to carry out the instructions I do not know that a great amount of skill of the doctor but to go to the extent that is needed to operate the apparatus. The they do in their training, I think, is going instruction on which I relied was rather rather beyond what is required. Radioactive Substances [2 MARCH) Act Amendment Bill 2449 Although this Bill in its content does not I suggest to the Committee that this Bill come up to what was expected by the contains a very useful strengthening of what Opposition inasmuch as it deals with the is already a good Act. I am not a spokesman conduct and supervision of those associated for the A.M.A. or any other interests but I with doctors or dentists, I think it is necessary. am, as much as anybody else in this Chamber, If it is designed to ensure that every Tom, a spokesman for the great mass of peonle Dick and Harry cannot take a photograph, whom we want to protect. I say firmly that or radiograph, it is desirable. this Bill helps protect the vital interests of the community in general. I think that the responsibilities of radio There seem to be many who are unable to graphers are limited, and that safety is a grasp the clear distinction that exists between matter to be taken into account more in the the man who takes an X-ray picture--the construction of the apparatus itself. technician-and the trained doctor who knows Mr. Aikens: The hon. member for Toowong the purpose of the picture and whether a does not admit that there are radiographers. picture is necessary, and who can also He thinks all doctors take their own X-ray interpret the picture once it is taken. photographs. Mr. Aikens: You are backing and filling. You said the other day that all doctors take Mr. MELLOY: Certain medical men do their own X-rays. specialise as radiologists, but their work with radiography is very limited. In 99 cases out Mr. PORTER: All doctors are trained in of 100 they would employ radiographers to diagnostic radiology. If the hon. member carry out the work. Although a patient might would like to see me later privately, I will pay the radiologist a fee of £8 8s., the explain what those words mean. radiologist would not have spent more than The chief concern of the doctors-apart five minutes with him, the responsibility for from the experts who, after further training, taking the X-ray being on the radiographer. handle X-rays for remedial and therapeutic The radiologist, of course, does diagnose purposes-is to use X-rays for the purpose from the X-ray photograph and then refers of making a diagnosis. Those who use it back to the patient's private doctor. X-rays to heal are in another category and Mr. Aikens: Doctors send him photographs require further approval from the council taken by other radiographers, too. before they can use X-ray substances for that purpose. Mr. MELLOY: That is correct. It is probably true to say that people other t~an doctors can be trained to take X-ray I rose mainly to express my views on the standard of radiographers and the desirability pictures, but to suggest that the technician of having some provisions to ensure that at is more important than the doctor is so least there is some standard among them and patently absurd as to be hardly worth certain safeguards for those who are operating answering. It is like suggesting that the apparatus under the direction or supervision nuclear physicist in charge of a huge space of either dentists or doctors. programme is not as important as the tech nician feeding data into a computer. The Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (2.27 p.m.): After work of the computer is important to the the Minister's introductory speech, it was whole programme but because the physicist interesting to hear the Leader of the Opposi does not know every little button on the tion express disappointment about the Bill. machine and its operations, it is nonsense I think what he said was that it was a let to suggest that the technician is more import down from what had been expected. Perhaps ant than the physicist. that will teach hon. members opposite not I rose to speak briefly to reply to the to attach so much weight in future to idle fantastic assertions made in the earlier stage Press speculation about potential legislation of the debate. I support the Bill and the before it goes through the joint-party room. Act. The Act is probably the best of its I think what has been expressed by some type in Australia. In other States where hon. members is not so much concern with there is more opportunity for tho;e other what is in the Bill but with what is not in the Bill. This was particularly the case with the th.an doctors to use X-rays, our Act is viewed hon. member for Townsville South, who came With envy. in with violent and extravagant denunciations ~s. for what is not in the Bill, but was of the medical profession, all of which were anticipated by. some, let me say here and couched in the most sweeping generalisations, now that I did all I could to prevent its with not one iota of truth in one syllable he appearance in the Bill and I will continue uttered. He spoke with all the venomous to do so. and ignorant bigotry of an old-fashioned hill billy faith-healer. The questi Mr. Aikens: When I was talking the other It would generally be agreed, therefore, day you said that every medical practitioner that before anyone becomes a competent could do it. radiologist he must reach a very high standard that is rigidly enforced. That is Mr. PORTER: I said nothing of the sort. important. I think ]t would be accepted by I said that every doctor is trained in those in the medical profession that to date diagnostic radiology, which is unquestionable. there is not a complete knowledge of radiol When interpreting X-rays, a doctor uses ogy and that day by day more is being dis many clinical tools. He uses pathology tests, covered through research. examinations, and a whole host of tests that It has been claimed that all doctors can use untrained, unqualified and unregistered these machines. In practice, very few doctors persons quite properly are not permitted to are competent to do so. use. As to who should have authority to say when X-rays should be taken, most Mr. Aikens: Look out! The hon. member definitely that must rest only with trained for Toowong will be onto you. and responsible persons such as doctors. Mr. SHERRINGTON: I do not care about I repeat that this Act is essential to the the hon. member for Toowong. I make my well-being of the community, and I hope that own speeches. I do not have to rely on it will never be tampered with. somebody else. Too many irresponsible statements have been made in this debate. Mr. SHERRINGTON (Salisbury) (2.34 Mr. Chinchen: Then why enter it? p.m.): I quite agree that the Radioactive Substances Act is very important, but I can Mr. SHERRINGTON: The hon. member hardly agree that the amendments proposed for Mt. Gravatt would not be qualified to in the Bill are so important that they could judge. not have been introduced by an Order in Mr. Chinchen: Any more than you are to Council or a regulation. This Government speak on this subject. is noted for government by regulation, and I wonder why the provisions contained in Mr. SHERRINGTON: I notice a total this Bill, if they are of such a minor nature, absence of sane comment from thart: direction. have come before us in this form. If the If an hon. member wants to enter a debate Government had lived up to its previous he should at least base his contribution on reputation these provisions could have been what he believes to be the facts of the promulgated by regulation. matter, and not use Parliament merely as a The hon. member for Toowong said that means to attack some public institution or the Opposition was disappointed at what was public body. not contained in the Bill. I suggest that I was about to say that because of the in its present form the Bill is merely a advances being made in the machines in use, face-saver. it would be impossible for anyone not closely associated with their operation to keep pace I am concerned at the trend that this with their development. The suggestion debate has taken, particularly as such an that doctors take X-rays willy-nilly is com important subject is involved. The use of pletely fallacious. radiology, even in the eyes of the medical profession, is still in the developmental stage. I now wish to deal with radiographers, Those who use, and direct the use, of the who are the technicians who, under the various appliances connected with this science direction of radiologists, take the actual have set a very high standard for those who photographs. To become a radiographer wish to qualify. To become a radiologist it it is necessary to have a pass at leaving is necessary for a student to complete a standard in three subjects. A person who general medical course, then do a two-year has the necessary qualifications is granted residency, and then enter an institution a cadetship and works in a hospital under approved by the College of Radiologists, the supervision of a doctor for a minimum where he works under the supervision of period of three years. persons qualified in radiology. Mr. Aikens: Did you give him this brief, The course comprises two parts: firstly, the Mr. Minister? student may elect at the end of the first period of 12 months to sit for an examina Mr. SHERRINGTON: One expects only tion. In that event, he cannot proceed with inane interjections from the hon. member the second part of the course until he satisfies for Townsville South. I have no brief from the examiners that he is completely com anybody and, if the hon. member cares petent in the first section of the course. to listen intelligently, I shall tell him when Secondly, he may elect to take the remaining I sum up why I rose to speak in this debate. portion of the course over a two-year or Mr. Aikens interjected. three-year period. Anybody desiring to qualify as a radiologist can go only to an Mr. SHERRINGTON: It does not worry institution approved by the College of me if the hon. member for Townsville South Radiologists. Those institutions determine not wants to try to deride me. If there is one only the volume of work carried out, but thing for which I have a very healthy respect also the type of work involved. it is the institution of Parliament, and I Radioactive Substances [2 MARCH) Act Amendment Bill 2451 believe that it behoves every member to Mr. MURRAY: It seems that it is accepted make his contribution in accordance with as being a simple Bill, apparently for what facts. I am afraid that on occasions the it does not contain-that seems to be the hon. member for Townsville South merely point about it. The debate has ranged reduces this Chamber to the status of a over a very wide field, from the violently three-ring circus. opposing views of the hon. member for Townsville South and the hon. member for After a person has obtained a cadetship Toowong to-- in radiography, his course is practical experi ence under supervision, and it includes Mr. Aikens: Did he express views, or just lectures. Here again, I feel that a good use vituperation? standard is set to make radiographers thor Mr. MURRAY: Both hon. members oughly competent in their trade or pro expressed views, without any doubt. I could fession. I am not so much concerned not, of course, agree with many of the with who takes X-ray photographs as I views put forward by the hon. member for am with maintaining a very high standard Townsvil!e South. There are occasions on in radiology and radiography. Any lessening which I agree with the hon. member very of the standard that has already been laid fully indeed; but it is the very meat of par down would be vigorously opposed by me, liamentary discussion that on other occasions and this is one of the reasons I rose to we must differ. I also would violently oppose speak during this debate. In matters of the lowering of standards in the medical public health, the standard set cannot be profession. too high. Whilst the hon. member for Toowong might say that we are disappointed Mr. Aikens: You can rest assured that with what is not in the Bill, surely we are the A.M.A. cannot lower theirs any further. entitled to voice our suspicions in these matters. Mr. MURRAY: I am sure that all hon. members, perhaps with the exception of the Mr. Tooth: Of what? hon. member for Townsville South, are very conscious of this problem. In the few years Mr. SHERRINGTON: I am suspicious of my association with parliamentary affairs of all Ministers, because on numerous occa and while I have been a member of Parlia sions the Opposition has not been fully ment, there has been a continuing force that informed of the contents of a Bill. has been directed with strong pressure Mr. Tooth: What are you suspicious of with very strong pressure indeed over the in this legislation? Do you think there is last few weeks-to eroding some standards. Certainly there has been very . definite and something in it you have not been told strong pressure leading up to the intro about? duction of the present Bill. Mr. SHERRINGTON: I am not saying Mr. Sherrington: Then you agree with what that I am suspicious of this legislation; what I said? I am suspicious about are the circumstances surrounding its introduction. Whilst the Mr. MURRAY: We should not lower our Minister may have been content to introduce standards. Personally, I have been subjected the Bill in four minutes, I am not going to very heavy pressure. In fact, one of my to be lulled into a false sense of security constituents, if I might call him that, by his dismissing it as a simple Bill. I threatened me quite violently over the tele remember an occasion only a few months phone that if on Wednesday the Government ago in this Chamber on which somebody brought down a Bill for the registration of used the "famous last words" that it was chiropractors and I did not support it a simple Bill and the debate on it con apparently he had sources of information tinued for a couple of days. In my opinion, and was aware of my attitude, as he called it, the Opposition has a responsibility to study in the party room-he would certainly take with a microscopic eye all these simple all the measures he could to have me flung Bilk I say very strongly that the pro out of Parliament. fession covered by this legislation is one in which legislative process must ensure A Government Member: His profession? that the highest possible standard is main tained. That, very briefly, is the reason Mr. MURRAY: He is a chiropractor. That I rose to take part in the debate. If, having shows the depths to which men will stoop in order to apply pressures to members of examined the Bill, I think any move is being Parliament. I have no doubt that all hon. made to break down that high standard, I members have been subjected to pressure of shall voice my objection again on the second reading. this type at various times. It does not worry me very much; I mention it only as an Mr. MURRAY (Clayfield) (2.47 p.m.): example of the depths of feeling that this This has been a very interesting debate on a measure has generated. proposal to introduce the simple Bill to which I was frankly amazed, because I had the hon. member for Salisbury referred. a letter-no doubt other hon. members Mr. Sherrington: I did not refer to it as received one also-from the Australian Asso simple. ciation of Chiropractors and Naturopaths. 2452 Radioactive Substances [ASSEMBLY] Act Amendment Bill I am not entirely sure what a naturopath is, not necessarily mean, in my book, that we but we seem to be fairly clear about what should allow it. I think we should be a chiropractor is. extremely jealous of our standards. Mr. Porter: I do not know that we are. Mr. Cbinchen: Poker machines, for instance. Mr. MURRAY: We are fairly clear, but this letter stated categorically that not in Mr. MURRAY: The hon. member men any circumstances does this Australian asso tions poker machines. ciation desire to see the right given to ils Relativity is not the point on which we members to take X-rays. It was very interest should base our judgment. That would be ing. In fact, it made pertinent remarks entirely wrong. I think we are very fortunate about those who are putting the pressure on. that we have high standards, and we should I want to say a word or two about indi be jealous to preserve them. vidual rights in this matter. I would never Mr. Aikens: And, if possible, make them object-! do not think any of us would in higher. this day and age-to an individual going to whom he wants to go in the para-medical Mr. MURRAY: We should work con field, if that is the right word for those on tinually to make them higher. the fringe in this matter. We can have no objection to the individual going to anyone In this field we do not recognise many he wants to go to provided that the indi people, by registration at Government level, vidual to whom he goes is not, in the who are outside of the medical profession. opinion of those who are responsible for I understand that the only two groups on forming such opinions, acting in an anti the fringe of the medical world outside social manner. I think that is the important graduates of university courses, who are thing. actually registered in this State are nurses and optometrists, whose standards are laid Mr. Tucker: Don't you think that those down by their own boards. Outside of those who are very sick, anxious and worried can two groups, we do not register at all. sometimes lose their judgment? The medical profession has been both Mr. MURRAY: The hon. member for slandered and praised in the Chamber during Townsville North has raised a point of some this short debate. validity, but I cannot believe that we should interfere in any respect with the right of Mr. Aikens: Not the whole profession. the individual to choose from whom he might seek treatment. Mr. MURRAY: Not the whole profession. Mr. Aikens: It is the basic freedom of We agree, of course, that the medical pro- the individual. fession is a corporate body. Undoubtedly it is responsible for the setting up of its own Mr. MURRAY: It is the basic freedom teachings, and it is left very largely to itself, of the individual. as is the legal profession. In the short time Mr. Tucker: Not interfere with his right, I have been here we have heard the hon. but make sure that he cannot go to people member for Townsville South hold forth on who are quacks. this subject time and time again. Without a doubt the medical profession is a corporate Mr. MURRAY: A quack in this regard body, but that does not mean that it should could well be acting in an anti-social manner. be subject to the type of virulent abuse it That is what I mean-people acting in an receives from time to time in odd places. anti-social manner and doing harm to some body in the community. We have a depart Medical manipulation apparently is some ment with a Minister and many trained thing that has not been taught to any great people to look at this problem. After all, degree in the medical courses at our universi Victoria decided to throw out some people ties. I understand that in the United King called scientologists, yet thousands C•f dom, Dr. (or Professor) Syriak-some name people, perhaps of the upset type mentioned such as that-has had a tremendous influence by the hon. member for Townsville North, in the teaching of medical manipulation and others, feel that they receive some through university courses. Seeing that there therapeutic value from attendance with a has been so much discussion on this matter. scientologist in whatever he practises. The I suggest that the medical profession in Victorian Government decided very defiintely Queensland might well recognise that the to throw them out and I saw recently that unorthodox is something to which it might other States can expect an influx of scientolo give a little more thought. Its insistence on gists, so this problem may well be another the orthodox over the last 100 years has that we have to face in the future. perhaps been responsible for the growth of present-day fringe activities. As I mentioned earlier, we have standards and in no circumstances would I agree to The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. their being lowered. Relativity to ot.l-ter Hodges) : Order! I hope that the hon. mem States and nations is not really the point. ber will get back to the Radioactive Sub Because another State allows this, it does stances Act Amendment Bill. Radioactive Substances [2 MARCH] Act Amendment Bill 2453 Mr. MURRAY: I am leading straight to it Mr. DEAN: I repeat that I am quite now. capable, with the information at my disposal, The medical profession is responsible for to express what is in my mind. Hon. mem many fringe activities which have caused this bers have had an opportunity to do a little sort of pressure to be put on us now for research, and I have carried out some in our certain people to be given the right to use library under the impression that a certain radioactive substances. section in the community would derive some benefits. I refer to chiropractors who were All these things take time, but I believe mentioned by the Minister in his introductory that we should have a greater recognition of speech. the need to include medical manipulation in medical courses. I believe that this would These machines are to be used more freely go a long way towards cleaning up what in many surgeries and places connected with some people refer to as quackery, but what public health, and even though those persons others and I myself recognise as a necessary who will be operating them will be fully field, with limitations, on the fringe of the trained, or trained to the limit of scientific orthodox medical world. knowledge many tests should be made to find out the extent of the radiation or what Mr. Aikens: In other words, the medical injurious effects radioactive substances haye profession should aim for a fluid mentality. on patients being treated. I have often dls Mr. MURRAY: As I have said, we should cussed this matter with people who have far be prepared to recognise what many in the greater knowledge than I. Scientific instru older school will not, namely, that there is a ments are available and they should be installed in many of these places to measure place and the scope and need for manipula the dosage of radiation from the machines, tion. The public has shown this. Many to see if there is a build-up in an area in doctors do offer medical manipulation when which they are used, or the bodies of the they think it desirable. Because of the patients. I have been told by scientists that pressures applied, we run the risk of lowering radiation builds up in the system and cannot our standards. We should never countenance be destroyed, and that eventually it reaches the use on the human body of work in which a danger level and is lethal. There is no people are not medically trained, and for meter in a surgery to show whether it is which standards are not laid down within reaching the danger level. approved courses. Until the Bill is printed and we see what it I look forward to studying the Bill and contains, we are rather limited in debating finding out what it does not contain. I am not sure that we have yet touched on any it. To me, the most important matter is thing that it does contain. public health-the welfare of the people who will be taking advantage of this treatment. Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (3.1 p.m.): Since There have been many discussions about the the Minister indicated that he intended to untrained mind versus the trained mind. bring forward this Bill to amend the Radio Although hon. members have not said so active Substances Act of 1958 there has been directly, they have implied that a little know much discussion and speculation in the com ledge can be a dangerous thing. Putting munity outside. Many people like myself these machines into untrained hands could be ventured to say that we thought this would dangerous. A qualified medical practitioner be one of the most controversial measures or any qualified man is aware of the possible to come before Parliament for some years. danger from such a machine even if he does I agree with the Leader of the Opposition not understand the full implications of the and other members who have spoken about treatment. He realises the ill-effects that the disappointment felt relative to its mode can flow from the careless use of such a of introduction and narrow implications. As machine. For example, look at the number stated by the hon. member for Salisbury, of foolish accidents that occur in a home the amendments could have been introduced when untrained people attempt to repair much more simply by regulation, thus saving electrical appliances. Untrained people do valuable time--and we have only limited not realise the danger. But a trained elec time in this short session-which could have trician does not take risks; he would not pull been devoted to discussing much more impor a lead out of a socket before switching off tant legislation. I hope that I am wrong in saying the legislation is trivial and that the the power, nor would he effect repairs while Bill, when we see it, will contain more the power is still on, because he is aware of important amendments than have been the danger. brought to our notice. Until the Bill is printed, anything I say will Mr. Aikens: You can issue a regulation only be reiteration. I am rather disappointed, only if you have an Act under which to issue after waiting all this time for this most it; you cannot pluck a regulation out of the important piece of legislation, to find that it air. is so trivial. I suggest it will only be a matter of time before the Act is further :Mr. DEAN: I am quite capable of making amended to allow chiropractic treatment, my own speech in my own way. and all of this will be gone over again. I Mr. Aikens: Maybe you are, but I am reserve further comment until I see the beginning to doubt it. Bill. 2454 Radioactive Substances [ASSEMBLY] Act Amendment Bill Mr. BROMLEY (Norman) (3.9 p.m.): The I mentioned earlier the great importance Minister took only four minutes to introduce of the profession and gave details of the this Bill and, judging from what he said, it training of radiographers, radiotherapists, and is a simple measure. But as the Radio others. Over-exposure to radiation is a active Substances Act is an important piece danger to life itself, and I bring to the of legislation, we should treat this measure notice of the Committee the danger to as most important. Many hon. members which radiologists and radiographers are exposed while using this equipment. An have raised points with which I do not article in "The Courier-Mail" of 18 March, agree. I deal with this matter from the point 1966, said- of view of health. Those who use X-ray "The National Radiation Advisory Com equipment have a great responsibility. mittee yesterday called for prompt action I wish to bring to the notice of the Com to reduce the dose of radiation used in mittee the great importance of radiologists mass X-ray surveys. and radiographers. The syllabus of traming "In its report tabled in Parliament, the and the regulations dealing with radiographers committee reaffirmed its support for the are, of course, most important. The same com Commonwealth and State tuberculosis con ments apply to radiotherapists. ln the syllabus trol work, but it emphasised that no-one and regulations of the Conjoint Board of should be exposed to radiation needlessly." The College of Radiologists ot Australasia and At this stage I shall digress briefly to give The Australasian Institute of Radiography due credit to the employees in the various are found some answers to what was said by public hospitals who have to use X-ray the hon. member for Townsville South when he spoke of the medical profession m general equipment so frequently. It is commendable as being unimportant, and when he dealt that frequent examinations are carried out with radiologists. They do a great job and to ensure that the equipment is functioning take considerable risks. This book shows correctly and that those who use it are that people must be very well qualified to gain examined regularly for possible over-exposure their certificates in these fields. It shows that to radiation. I referred to a case similar for diagnostic radiography the course is three to this some time ago, but in 1902, only years. I do not intend to go into it in detail. six years after Rontgen announced the dis Students have to study the anatomy of the covery of X-rays, a technician who had used human body as well as physics and radio X-rays for some time found that frequent graphic equipment, and the technique for its exposure to radiation caused cancer of the use. They have to study for three years and hand. pass various examinations to qualify as radio Of course, dentists do not use the X-ray graphers or radiotherapists or, in the case of machines or X-ray films as radiographers or medical men, specialists in radiology. radiologists do. One of the reasons for this Because of their tremendous importance to is the danger of radiation affecting their health, I want to bring to the attention of hands. As hon. members know, either the the Committee some of the subjects that these person operating the machine or the patient people have to study. I refer to historical has to hold a film inside the patient's development and possible biological effects of mouth while the X-ray is taken. exposure to radiation; radiation in general; To stress how dangerous radiation of any right through to the care, custody and control kind can be, I quote an article from a of radium. The book sets out suggested London source. It says- reading for those concerned with the type of work with which the Bill deals. It sets out "Four of a Mexican family of five the study that has to be undertaken dealing died from radiation sickness after having with all types of radiation; external sources kept a piece of unshielded radio-active of radiation; internal sources of radiation; cobalt material in their home for four radio-active contamination; possible sources months, the British doctors' journal of contamination; and so on. In one syllabus Medical News reported today. I see, "Biological effects of radiation." That "A piece of industrial cobalt-60 was is part of a 20-hour course, which deals with accidentally left in the house in Mexico the physical and chemical effects of radiation City in its protective lead container. and its general effects on cells and tissues. "It was found by the young son, who Although I do not want to delay the took it out and carried it around in Committee, I wish to mention these things his pocket for two days. to bring to the notice of not only hon. mem bers but the public in general the extreme "Then his mother put it in a kitchen- importance of the work done by radiolMists, table drawer." radiographers and radiotherapists. I wish to As a result of its coming out of the lead bring that to the attention of those who container, it caused the death of four persons must have X-rays, and most of us require in that house. them at some time. There is a great deal more information I now wish to deal shortly with the use of available showing the danger from radio X-rays and the amount of radiation to the activity and radioactive substances, whether person from radium treatment or X-ray in X-ray machines, test tubes or other con photographs. tainers. This, of course, is a tremendous Radioactive Substances [2 MARCH] Act Amendment Bill 2455 advance in medicine, but it also represents a This paper further states- considerable increase in danger not only to "The study confirmed in remarkable :he users of machines such as X-rays but detail the scientists' hypothesis: that :o the people upon whom they are used. specialists who frequently use X-rays will The hon. member for Townsville South die earlier than those who use X-rays less condemned doctors generally and intimated frequently." to the Committee that he considered them to I think that gives the complete answer to the be just a bunch of no-hopers. I cannot go hon. member for Townsville South. along with that. I have the greatest admira Mr. Lee interjected. tion for anybody who sacrifices as much of his time and physical capacity- as a doctor Mr. BROMLEY: The radiation is there does in the care of patients. He not only whilst the machines are being used. I intimated that they are no-hopers but also could quote from several other sources. I said that they rob the public of enormous have in mind the effect of radiation on the sums of money in the use of X-rays. As crew of a warship that was stranded, because I understood him, the hon. member for of a breakdown in its engines, in radio Toowong also said that doctors take plenty active waters where an atomic bomb had of X-rays. That is not a fact and I intend been exploded. One officer in particular to prove it. Very few doctors actually take received a big overdose of radiation. He X-rays, firstly because of the danger involved became so "hot" that it was impossible to and secondly because the cost of the equip take an X-ray photograph of him. Photo ment is almost prohibitive to the general graphs came out completely black, showing practitioner. no detail. The overdose of radiation caused the arms, hands and other parts of his body Dealing first of all with the danger aspect. to bleed continually. He finally became I quote from a letter received from a doctor affected by leukaemia, a form of cancer, m which, no doubt, he referred to the hon. which is almost impossible to cure despite member for Townsville South. He said- the number of blood transfusions given. "The dangers to future generations in The hon. members for Townsville South careless handling of X-ray machines, and Toowong said that doctors did a tre allowing human gonads to be irradiated mendous number of X-rays. This is an are very real. unreasonable comment to make because the "What freak mutations may be pro cost of the necessary equipment would make it uneconomic for a general practitioner to duced. It is too late once it has happened, take his own X-ray photographs. Such and the freak mutations may be passed equipment is installed by radiologists who from one generation to the next by direct have sufficient work in this field to warrant inheritance." the cost of its installation and maintenance. He was referring, of course, to the over-use A very small unit with a dark room attached of X-rays by unqualified people and that is would probably cost $4,000 to $6,000, but the sort of thing we have to watch. even that would be rather primitive equip ment. In addition there is the cost of films Doctors and radiologists themselves are and everything else. General practitioners well aware, as I believe we all are, of the would not get sufficient use from X-ray equip tremendous dangers associated with the con ment to warrant the cost of its installation, stant use of X-ray equipment. I have here and therefore it is only natural that they copy of a paper cutting which states that send their patients to a person specialising in in America a study of the death-rate among this field. some 20,000 doctors has produced striking We must have regard to the dangers from evidence that repeated exposure to small over-exposure to X-rays, not only to people doses of X-rays can take years off a person's now living but through them, in turn, to life. That is a very serious matter. That generations yet unborn. must have been a most exhaustive study, taken over such a large number as 20,000 In the short time now at my disposal I wish doctors. The study is reported by Johns to refer to some of the radiation aspects of Hopkins University scientists. X-rays and the amount of radiation from a spinograph X-ray, as chiropractors refer to it, Occupational exposure to X-rays has which requires more exposure than any other apparently shortened the life of radiologists part of the body, because of the nature of that and physicians who use them in their prac part of the body. A lateral projection of the tices. Nobody in this Committee could con spinal column is used mostly by chiropractors vince me that doctors, radiologists and in their desire to find out what is wrong with specialists in the use of X-rays are not going a person. I am referring to this to point to take any notice of such a study. It is out the dangers involved because of the good to see that such continued studies are length of time the X-ray machine has to be carried out not only in regard to the pro focused on that part of the body. The skin fession but in regard to its patients because, radiation dosage for lateral projections of the as a result of such studies the incidence of spine are as follows: For the cervical spine, death is lessening and means are being or neck there is an 80 kilo voltage, with found of combating this danger in X-rays. 36 milli amp seconds at 6 feet. That is a 2456 Radioactive Substances [ASSEMBLY] Act Amendment Bill very high voltage. It amounts to 90 milli is not fundamentally true. I must agree with Roentgens. When we take that into con the Minister when he says he has doubts, sideration we realise that if a person has one, because there must be some doubt in people's two, or three of those X-rays in a year the minds. radiation in his body is added to greatly. I have been X-rayed by a radiologist, who Hon. members can see the danger that could carried out the actual procedures. On .the arise. same day supplementary X-rays were taken The thoracic spine (thorax) X-ray does not by another person, a radiographer, although call for as much kilo voltage. It requires the radiologist had in fact done the main job, 70 kilo volts, with 400 milli amp seconds at which was an abdominal X-ray. I have bad 40 inches. It is a longer type of X-ray but, my chest X-rayed at least once a year and I at the same time, the X-ray is taken from a should say that sometimes a radiologist has greater distance. The fact is that it takes done that job; radiographers have also done much longer, and these are the types of it, and so have nurses and wardsmen. This X-ray chiropractors use. It amounts to raises in people's minds thoughts as to the 2,400 milli Roentgens. Hon. members will qualifications of those who actually take realise from those two examples the danger X-rays. Obviously a radiologist is trained to in X-ray machines being put into the hands do a certain job, and so is a radiographer, of unqualified persons who know nothing but what training is given to a nurse or a about the dangers. wardsman to take X-rays? I referred earlier to the capabilities of I do not intend to go into technical details radiographers, radiotherapists and radiolo as other hon. members have, but there must gists. Not for one moment do I believe that be some doubt in people's minds that perhaps any down-grading should take place in the the person who takes these X-rays is not fully training of these people. competent. People could be excused for (Time expired.) thinking that such a person's incompetence could cause them harm. As I said earlier, Mr. O'DONNELL (Barcoo) (3.33 p.m.): there was no doctor present when the wards I am entering this debate because something man or the nurse took some X-rays of me. the Minister said has raised some doubts in These are the facts which come to light my mind. When introducing the measure when a Bill such as this is introduced. he made the following statement:- When the A.M.A. circularises people stress "The amendment now being introduced ing that only qualified medical practitioners is merely to clarify the law in regard to a and qualified dentists are allowed to possess person who is acting under the supervision or operate X-ray equipment for use on human or instructions of a medical practitioner." beings, the impression is gained that perhaps Later on he said that there could be a doubt a medical practitioner, overloaded with work, ". . . whether a person who receives a hands over part of his professional work to written or perhaps verbal request from a people who could be incompetent. The medical practitioner to take an X-ray of a Minister should enlighten us if any of these human being is acting within the law if such people, such as wardsmen and nurses, are X-ray is taken without the medical prac given any special training. To what extent titioner or dentist being present." are they being trained? Also, does this lift the standard to which the hon. member for Further he expressed a doubt- Clayfield referred? ". . . in the case of a person who is required to administer or use any radio We have a big problem in Queensland, active substance in the course of treatment where public hospitals are scattered through of a patient prescribed by the medical out the State, and it is important that people practitioner. This would happen quite have the utmost confidence in the treatment that they receive at them. I am well aware frequently in the State's public hospitals, that X-ray equipment is a valuable adjunct to and the amendment proposed is to safe the work of local doctors. X-rays taken guard the interests of those persons acting locally can also be sent for opinions to in such capacities." specialists in the metropolitan area, which I now quote from a letter from the A.M.A., means that the patients concerned do not which reads- have to undertake long and expensive " ... the Radioactive Substances Act allows journeys. only medical practitioners and dentists to I feel that some light should be thrown on possess or operate X-ray equipment for use those who are doing this work in hospitals, on human beings." perhaps in some instances under the super We know that the use of X-rays by chiro vision of medical practitioners but possibly practors is a controversial question. When in most instances not. I would appreciate it the A.M.A. sent this circular letter to hon. if the Minister would tell the Committee how members, there was a good deal of amuse and to what extent these people are instructed, ment over that particular sentence. and if they are tested on their competence. Furthermore, if they are carrying out this I suppose every hon. member has been work to a set standard, I think that legislation X-rayed at some time in his life. While it to protect them is needed and anything that might be correct to say that that could happen leaves any doubt in that respect should be in certain places in the metropolitan area, it removed from the Statute Book. Radioactive Substances [2 MARCH] Act Amendment Bill 2457 Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) (3.42 effort should be made to use the latest p.m.): There seems no doubt that during the equipment in this field. I say this because last three decades at least people have been manufacturers of X-ray equipment are very subjected to a good deal of exposure to conscious of the fact that doses of radiation X-rays. In fact, from what I have been able should be reduced and are making every to ascertain from research, the degree of effort to ensure that their equipment is as exposure has been increasing. About 1896 a efficient as possible in this respect. If the gentleman named Rontgen discovered X-rays, latest equipment is installed, therefore, the and from that time society has used them. I doses of radiation received by people using have also discovered by research that a it will be reduced. Research has produced committee in America, known as the National faster film. It has produced electronic Advisory Committee, which was established devices which increase the brightness of the to investigate radiation, found that the annual fiuoroscopic screens and therefore allow our dosage of radiation taken by the average doctors and technicians to work faster and American in the 30-year period from 1925 quicker in this field and, as a result, cut to 1955 increased by 900 per cent. I have down on this ever-increasing radiation dose. no doubt that this is continuing. There are also others, I have found, called The point I make is that, with the continued image intensifiers, which also help in this use of X-rays in the community, our exposure field, and there are new filters that eliminate to radiation must continue to be high, and useless long-wave radiation that previously this must worry every thinking person. The went into the patient. more one reads competent medical authorities, I mention these new ideas and facilities the more one realises that some of today's that are forever coming forward. There are medical problems such as cancer of the glands, probably others that I do not know about, blood, and other parts of the body, may-1 but new techniques are always coming say "may"-be traced to radiation. forward in this field. I mention them Every responsible person in the com because many people have told me that they munity must be worried by this problem. are very costly devices and, if we are going According to statistics that I have, the to cut down on radiation by the use of these radiation that an ordinary person receives new techniques in the X-ray field, then we from X-rays is 135 per cent. greater than he will have to leave this equipment in the hands acquires from natural sources, and I am of people who can pay for the new techniques sure that must exercise the mind of every that are available and keep up with them. one of us. It is obvious that X-rays can do That is why I say there should be periodic a great deal of damage, but they can also inspections of X-ray equipment, and that we do a great deal of good. Therefore it is should endeavour to see that these new necessary to exercise careful control over techniques are available. their use. Every member of the Opposition It is obviously too costly for the average is worried about this question, and I suggest person to h01d many of these new devices, that the Committee should consider it not and for that very reason we find that there on a political basis but in a responsible way are radiologists who set themselves up purely for the good of the whole community. in this field and who do, in fact, have very good equipment that makes certain that the The statistics to which I referred a short dosage of radiation is decreased. In fact, while ago indicate that the use of X-ray quite often the same thing applies in our equipment should be regulated carefully and hospitals, although I am not certain that it that such devices do not belong in the hands happens in every hospital using certain of uneducated laymen. They should be in equipment. Every effort should be made to the hands of only highly educated and very install this new equipment in our hospitals efficient technicians. I agree with rhe and to ensure that so far as dosages of Minister that those who operate X-ray equip radiation are concerned the patient is looked ment should be able to produce substanrial after. evidence of their qualifications, and I belie,·e I think it is the responsibility of every that provision for this already exists in member of Parliament-in fact every member Queensland. If a doctor wishes to use it, it of the community-to see that outdated does not matter very much as long as he X-ray equipment is scrapped and not left in can produce evidence of his qualifications. the hands of radiologists. I do not think Training in the use of the equipment cannot that today there are many with outdated be given in an offhand manner. The required equipment, but there are in the community knowledge cannot be gained from regular some who I believe do have it. Outdated instruction, and it cannot be picked up by ~quipment should be scrapped whether it be the ordinary layman in the community. held by private doctors or radiologists, or X-ray equipment can be allowed in the hands whether it is in our own hospitals. It is only of those who are properly trained to dangerous, and we should endeavour to see operate it. that no-one is exposed to defective and If it is not done already-perhaps it Js potentially harmful, outdated machinery. For the sake of public safety alone the use done in Queensland, although what happens of these X-ray machines should be restricted. in other States shows that it is not done everywhere-! suggest that there should be That is the argument I put forward this periodic inspections of X-ray equipment by afternoon. So that the public generally will competent authorities. In my opinion, every get minimum doses we should ensure that 2458 Radioactive Substances [ASSEMBLY] Act Amendment Bill the use of these machines is restricted, that weekly-for various forms of malignant and all machines are in the hands of experts, and suspected malignant conditions. The number that those who have machines are able to of radiologists and doctors there is not very install the latest techniques. There should great. If each patient had to be treated by not be any use today of what are called a doctor the amount of work that could be "broad beams", which radiate over the whole done and the number of patients who could of the body when only a part of it is under be treated in a given time would be very observation. When I speak of new techniques, seriously reduced, and a real problem would that is what I mean. arise. Those who have had occasion to go At this stage I do not wish to enter into there would know what happens. I am one the argument between doctors and chiro who goes there. As a young resident in the practors. My argument is not against the Far West I never wore a hat and consequently chiropractor as such. He might make a these days I have to make occasional trips contribution to the community; that is some to the Radium Institute. What happens is thing that can be debated later. I am not that a qualified radiologist-a doctor ·Jebating it today. The point I am making examines the patient's forehead or face, or is that to my mind these machines are wherever the condition might be, and makes dangerous. a mark on the spot that he considers requires I believe that the net should not be spread; treatment. He then issues instructions to it should always be restricted to the hands a nurse who has been trained by him and of better-qualified people-people with better who he knows can do this work. Patients equipment, hospitals with better equipment. go into another room or surgery, where two If this can be done, if this amending legisla or three people treat them with radioactive tion now before the Committee can achieve substances or the irradiating apparatus, this, the Opposition will be very happy whichever is designated. In this way, a great indeed. If the Minister has seen fit to further deal of work is done that could not otherwise restrict the use of X-ray equipment, placing be done if the duty was not delegated. it in the hands only of those trained and The terms of the Act merely say, " ... is competent to use it, he will have done a acting under the supervision or instructions good thing for the community. But if it is of a medical practitioner or doctor so the other way, if the Bill means that those licensed". That phraseology has been causing less competent are allowed to enter this field, concern. The legal authorities have been the Opposition will strenuously oppose it. doubtful whether in fact it covers a case Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister where a doctor or a dentist is not present for Health) (3.56 p.m.), in reply: It has been in person. If a doctor or a dentist had a lengthy and illuminating debate, and I to be present on each and every occasion thank hon. members for the interest they have on which treatment was given the whole taken in the subject before them. Although of the process would be slowed down quite this is a small Bill in terms of bulk and catastrophically. Ever since this problem words, it is by no means an unimportant was drawn to our attention it has concerned Bill. It does not alter in any way the range us. We have been particularly concerned of people who will be using either radio and the hon. member for Barcoo made this active substances or irradiating apparatus. point, very pertinently-as to the degree What it does is to clarify the authority under of protection that any nurse or radiographer which a number of people are acting. had under the terms of the Act. We propose to cover this situation by adding words to I think this Act is recognised throughout the effect, "or at the request made directly Australia as being probably the best such to him". We are assured that they will Act operative. When it was originally cover the problem. That is the purpose framed, two sections, sections 13 and 14, of the Bill, and therefore it is not an made provision as to who should use radio unimportant Bill. It is very important, as active substances and irradiating apparatus. it is designed to protect people throughout The sections we are concerned with limit the hospitals who, in a limited way, are the use of radioactive substances to medical treating patients in the field of radiotherapy practitioners and dentists holding a licence. and, in a much wider way, are taking radio In the words of the Act, " ... such persons graphs for diagnostic purposes. We are who are acting under the supervision or ensuring that these people are properly and instructions of a medical practitioner or a legally protected. That is the purpose of the dentist so licensed." The same applies to Bill. the use of irradiating apparatus, except that registered medical practitioners and dentists There has been a great deal of coming do not need to hold a licence to use this and going in respect of matters that are type of apparatus for diagnostic purposes. In perhaps only remotely related to the Bill. each case provision is made for them to The hon. member for Nudgee rightly delegate this work but those to whom it emphasised that the ability to take radio is delegated must act under their super graphs is only part of the task in diagnostic vision and instruction. X-rays, and that the important section of it is A good illustration of this is to be found to interpret accurately. The taking of the at the Queensland Radium Institute at the radiographs might, in some cases, be deemed Royal Brisbane Hospital. This institute treats to be quite a lesser part of the procedure. dozens of people daily-probably hundreds The ability to understand what is revealed Radioactive Substances (2 MARCH] Act Amendment Bill 2459 by the radiograph is what is important. Of During the specialist term in the surgical course, that is where the training of doctors course they have nine tutorials of one hour is essential. each from visiting radiologists, three periods of one hour each per week during the surgical The hon. member for Toowong gave a term, two periods of tutorial, doing more very lucid and accurate outline of the whole situation. The hon. member for Salisbury detailed radio-diagnosis, and one period for joined with the hen. member for Townsville surgical radiology, a total of 30 periods of South in casting some doubts upon the-- one hour each. Mr. Sherrington: Don't ever associate me In the sixth year they have formal tutorial with him. That i'S a terrible insult to offer sessions looking at films and discussing prin ciples. At the adult hospital all students anybody. have one hour a week on diagnosis of X-rays. During the paediatric term at the Children's Mr. TOOTH: I am not trying to associate Hospital they do five hours of paediatric any hen. member with any other hen. X-rays with a radiologist. In addition, they member, but the cold facts of the matter avail themselves of the audio-visual teaching are that the hon. member for Salisbury machine, which consists of X-rays and tapes agreed with the hon. member for Townsville describing the principles of X-ray. South on the matter of doubt as to the qualifications of medical practitioners in this There is also reference to the training of field. dentists in taking X-rays. In the dental wurse students learn the history, properties, pro Mr. SHERRINGTON: I rise to a point of duction and control of X-rays, radiation order. I cast no doubt on their qualifications hazards, operating and dark-room procedures, at all. As a matter of fact, the whole and interpretation of radiographs. The theme of my speech was that there should students also have clinical and practical be no lowering of standards whatsoever. experience. Approximately 15 lectures are given. Mr. TOOTH: It is possible I may have misunderstood the hen. member, in which The hon. member for Townsville South case I certainly withdraw what I said. I referred to veterinary science people and their understood from the general context of his X-ray activities. I do not know how that remarks that he felt there was only a special is relevant, because we do not expect group in the medical field who would be veterinarians to take X-rays of human beings. competent to take diagnostic radiographs. Possibly the hon. member is a lover of If any doubt has been raised in the public's horses and would be interested to know what mind on this point, it is important that it veterinary science students do. should be cleared up. The course consists of 16 hours of formal I know that the hen. member for Towns lectures on radiography and radiology, four ville South enjoys himself on occasions like hours in the third year, eight hours in the this, and it is probably quite unlikely that he fourth year, and four hours in the fifth and expects us to take him terribly seriously. But final year. In addition to that, in the third he did use quite intemperate language on year the students do practical work, viewing this matter, and for this reason I shall give X-rays and studying bone structures in the hon. members some indication of the general anatomy course in the form of tutorials on training medical people have during their actual radiographic technique, particularly six-year course. with a view to looking at normal structures on radiographs. Fourth-year students are put In the first year of medical physics, students with radiologists and radiographers in groups learn the physics of radiology, the nature of ?f four each for 12 hours during the year X-rays, the hazards of radiation, the adverse ~n the X-r~y room and viewing area, assisting effects it can have, some of the principles m the takmg of X-rays, and interpretation. of X-ray diagnostic equipment, and the design In the fifth year each student has this prac of X-ray equipment, film, and fluorescent tical work again with the radiologist and the screens. radiographer in groups of four for 16 hours assisting in the taking of X-rays and inter~ In the fifth year when they are in a pretation similar to that in fourth year but in hospital doing clinical work, they have six more detail. Also, there are four h~urs of lectures on the principles of radiography and lectures with demonstrations, mainly on inter radiology at the beginning of the year. They pretation, by a qualified medical radiologist. learn the fundamentals of radiography, the hazards, the design of equipment and its In the fourth and fifth years there is management, and a brief reference to X-ray practical ':"~rk in the interpretation of X-rays circuits. They are taught protection of In the chmcal field. That disposes of the patients, particularly infants and young suggestion . tha~ doctors and dentists, apart children, the genetic effects of radiation, the from vetennanans, have a superficial know long-term results of radiation such as the ledge of this subject. development of leukaemia, and the principles I now wish to turn to a point raised by of radiology, radio-diagnostic as opposed to the hon. member for Salisbury. He said that radiography. a Bill has been introduced to amend an Act 2460 Pharmacy Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill in a way that is small in terms of words By an amendment of the Pharmacy Acts but very important, and he suggested that in 1959, the apprenticeship system was this could have been done by regulation. replaced by a full-time course of three years at the university leading to the Bachelor of Mr. Slb.enington: I said, "If it was so Pharmacy degree, followed by 12 months' unimportant". service under the supervision of a registered Mr. TOOTH: The importance or otherwise pharmaceutical chemist. of a change in the law does not depend on The university course provides sound whether it can be done by regulation. There academic training and students receive instruc must be provision in an Act to enable the tion in dispensing, chemical analysis and the making of regulations with regard to specific manufacture of stock compounds used as subjects. A note that I have from my legal medicine called galenicals. They do not, advisers reads- however, receive any practical experience "It would never be proper to alter the under the usual conditions encountered in wording of an Act by means of a regula retail or hospital pharmacies. tion or Order in Council. Such an attempt It is generally acknowledged that pharmacy would be invalid unless there were in the has undergone many changes in recent years. Act an express power so to do. Section The days when the pharmacist actually com 33 of the Radioactive Substances Act pounded most of the medicines in his own contains the regulation-making powers and pharmacy are no longer with us. Today, there is no such express power to amend while some medicines are dispensed as they the Act by such means." were 50 years ago, a big percentage of the think I have covered most of the salient work of the pharmacist consists of counting points that were raised. I thank hon. tablets and capsules prepared by manufactur members for the interest they have taken ing chemists. It is also recognised that a in this subject. pharmacist's business consists of many things Motion (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. besides the true practice of his profession. Resolution reported. Despite this, a pharmacist still has a very definite responsibility when he dispenses a FIRST READING prescription. The actual range of drugs he handles has increased tremendously. He must Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. still accept the blame if he makes a mistake Tooth, read a first time. in dispensing. Authorities in all Australian States and overseas still maintain that PHARMACY ACTS AMENDMENT BILL academic instruction at a university or pharmacy college is not sufficient to provide INITIATION IN COMMITTEE a student with the necessary qualifications (Mr. Campbell, Aspley, in the chair) for registration to practise his profession with out supervision. It is necessary for the Hon. S.. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister student to have practical experience as well; for Health) (4.14 p.m.): I move- and it is imperative that such practical "That a Bill be introduced to amend the experience be of adequate standard. Pharmacy Acts, 1917 to 1959, in certain Under the present Acts, a graduate is particulars." required to serve for a period of 12 months It is generally agreed that there should be under the supervision of a pharmaceutical some control over the qualifications of people chemist- who are permitted to practise professions (a) in an open chemist's shop and dis concerned with the prevention and treatment pensary in Queensland; of human ailments. Most countries accept (b) in a dispensary in Queensland; the system of registration of medical prac titioners, dentists, pharmacists and nurses. (c) in a public institution in Queensland; Before being granted such registration each or candidate is required to attain a certain (d) in a wholesale druggist's business, or standard in both academic training and prac a manufacturing chemist's business in tical experience. Students must not only Queensland. pass set examinations but gain a certain skill, either during the years in which theor Mr. Bromley: There is no reciprocity? etical instruction is given or after such Mr. TOOTH: I am coming to that. It is instruction. This system ensures the protec an important facet of the proposed Bill. tion of the public. These were places where it was permissible Prior to 1960, the system by which phar to serve an apprenticeship and, accordingly, maceutical chemists obtained registration in because of the carry-over of the apprentice Queensland consisted of a three years' ship system in 1959 when the Government apprenticeship to a master pharmacist and legislated for a university course, they were the passing of examinations set by the written into the 1959 amendment. Pharmacy Board. Under the apprenticeship scheme, practical experience was gained The Pharmacy Board, however, has during the years of apprenticeship, generally received applications for recognition of service in a retail pharmacy or a hospital dispensary. for registration purposes which have given 2461 Pharmacy Acts [2 MARCH] Amendment Bill concern. One of these was from a graduate practical experience in dispensaries dur!ng who claimed recognition for service in a their course, then serve for another p~nofi wholesale druggist's business. A committee in practical pharmacy,. and, after .this. IS appointed by the board reported t.h~t the completed, sit for their final exammatwn. practical experience in matters pertammg to The present Act requires that graduates from the profession gained by this graduate was other States must serve for 12 months under virtually negligible. the supervision of a pharmaceutical cherni>t subsequent to obtaining. the neces~ary Other applications came from graduates academic qualifications gamed by examma who undertook an honours course in tion. As Victoria, at least, has a system pharmacy at the University of Queensland and under which graduates gain their experience spent part of their time demonstrating to prior and not subsequent to the fi~al examina undergraduates. The Pharmacy Board is of tion, the position should be rectlfi~ and the the opinion that while practical experience service of such graduates recogmsed. gained during such demonstrations is valuable, it is limited compared with that gained either One further matter in regard to this ser in a retail pharmacy or in a hospital dis vice needs correction. Some graduates have pensary. The Reader in Pharmacy at the moved quickly from one dispensary to University of Queensland has stated that it another and the Pharmacy Board has been is desirable that such applicants should obliged' to recognise service for as little as obtain further practical experience in suitable five days in one dispensary. As it is con dispensaries outside the university before sidered that such a time is too short to be being registered. After obtaining legal advice, of use, it is proposed to correct the position the Pharmacy Board was obliged to recognise by making one month the minimum period the service in both places mentioned. for service in any one place. It is proposed to delete reference to service Casting our minds back some years, after in a wholesale druggist's business or a manu the economic depression of the early 1930's facturing druggist's business, as it is con a provision was included in the law dealing sidered that neither of these types of business with the licensing of pharmacies with the in Queensland, at present, provides adequate idea of limiting the number of pharmacies practical experience for graduates. There in a particular area. This was done by an may come a time, however, when these types amendment of the Act as far back as 1935. of business or some other institution will It will be understood that when this Act provide adequate experience, and provision was passed in 1959 we had to provide for for such an eventuality has been made in the period during which both systems would the Bill. At the present time this type of be in operation-apprentices who were finish experience is not adequate for the purposes ing their course and the new university of registration. people. But the apprenticeship system is It is further proposed that recognition be now obsolete and finished with, so it is pro given for service in the pharmacy depart posed to delete all the various references m ment of a university, but only for six months, the Act to the apprenticeship system. a further six months to be served elsewhere. Mr. Bromley: Will there be any time factor The Queensland branch of the Pharmaceu in this amendment relative to pharmacists tical Service Guild of Australia has assured working in wholesale drug stores? me that there is no difficulty in graduates obtaining the necessary 12 months' pre Mr. TOOTH: No. registration service with retail pharmacists. The guild co-operates with the University of Because economic conditions improved, Queensland and the Commonwealth Employ the system of licensing was not implemented. ment Service by supplying the names of It would appear that such a system would registered pharmaceutical chemists who are certainly interfere with the liberty of the willing to employ graduates for 12 months individual pharmacist. It is proposed, there in order that they may gain the necessary fore, to repeal the sections of the Act dealing practical experience required for registration. with licensing. The proposed amendment will not affect the As the apprenticeship has been replaced number of such chemists willing to take by a university course, it is also considen::d these graduates. opportune to repeal the sections of the Acts I mentioned in my opening remarks that referring to apprentices as being no longer necessary practical experience in a profes necessary. sion is sometimes gained during the time The principal Act provides that a ~hop the student is receiving theoretical instruc or dispensary is deemed to be under the tion, and sometimes on completion of such personal supervision of a pharmaceutical instruction. In Queensland the pharmacy chemist only when he is actually present, graduates complete their academic course, except when he may be absent for a lunch sit for their final examination, and then a~e hour between 12 noon and 2 p.m. That required to have 12 months' service. stretch of time is specified in the Act. As The same scheme does not pertain in all business conditions vary in different parts Australian States which have reciprocity of the State, it is proposed that the board with Queensland in the matter of registratwn. shall have power to alter, by by-law, the In Victoria, for instance, students gain some period within which this hour may be taken. 2462 Pharmacy Acts [ASSEMBLY] Amendment Bill It is intended to repeal the section of the or do what he wants to do in the community. Act dealing with the position of deputy This legislation further limits the number of registrar of the board in view of the fact places at which students may be employed that the powers, authorities, duties and for a period of 12 months' recognised service functions of the deputy registrar have been under the Act. This is a very important set out in the Medical Acts and Other Acts matter to the students. (Administration) Act of 1966, which was passed late last year. I think it should also be mentioned that with the termination of the apprenticeship Opportunity has been taken to substantially system we have reached the end of an era. increase pecuniary penalties in the light of As far as I know, and as far as the Opposition present-day monetary values and, at the is concerned, the apprenticeship system same time, to convert them to decimal worked very effectively when it was estab currency. lished. It allowed young people to enter The various amendments proposed are con service with a pharmaceutical chemist. By sidered to be in the interests of the profession hard work and by applying themselves they and the public, and I commend the Bill to eventually attained the status of a chemist. the Committee. Now that a university course is prescribed some who wish to become pharmaceutical Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) (4.26 chemists may be precluded from doing so. p.m.): On what can be gathered from what I hope that every effort will be made to help the Minister has said the Opposihon feels those who are trying to complete the course. that it certainly will not be opposed to the Bill. However, I sometimes consider that The Opposition realises and recognises the the Minister could well go into greater detail need for practical experience. We agree that when introducing legislation. For instance, the academic side must be upheld so that when we were debating the Radioactive we may have in our community properly Substances Act Amendment Bill it was only skilled and properly trained chemists. We because there was a certain amount of debate recognise, too, that there is a need for prac on that legislation that the Minister finally tical experience. A person may acquire gave a certain explanation in his reply. academic skill but sometimes there is a vast I want to make that reservation about this difference between acquiring skill and using Bill. We reserve the right to look at it closely it in a practical way. That may be demon when it is printed, and then to make our final strated in many other spheres in the com decision about it at that stage. munity. I will not go into details at present At this stage one point is exercising my but we are aware of the need for practical mind. It is probable that a certain number experience and we have no argument against of young people today will be in the employ it. of wholesale druggists or manufacturing drug We agree with making it mandatory for gists. I do not know whether they have been young people to spend at least one month •ware of this pending amendment to the in a pharmacy. If it were only a matter Pharmacy Act. As others have already made of a week or a few days obviously it would application to have their 12 months' service be quite a haphazard matter. We recognise recognised, there may be some presently that it is necessary to have an arbitrary employed in these establishments who believe time limit for working in chemists shops or that by completing their 12 months' service hospital dispensaries. they will have complied with the provisions of the Act. It is reasonable to ask that such I will leave further comments until we young people should be given a certain see the Bill. Generally speaking I do not amount of time to transfer from their present think there is anything the Minister intro employment to somewhere else where their duced that the Opposition finds objectionable. service will be recognised under the pro visions of this Bill. The Minister has not Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (4.33 p.m.): The mentioned this point. I do not know whether measure, as outlined by the Minister, is th~re would be many in this position. The desirable. There have been many beneficial Minister has specifically mentioned a coupie changes in pharmacy in the past decade. The of cases of young people who have applied Minister referred to the passing of the appren to the board for recognition of their services ticeship system, which is a good idea. It with these manufacturers. It is reasonable to is not long since we had a class of chemists suggest that a certain period of grace should or pharmacists known as unregistered be allowed to them to move to other employ chemists. They were mostly young men who ment so that they can comply with the amended Act. did not make the grade in their apprentice ships or did not complete them. They were Mr. Tooth: You have the assurance of the allowed to perform certain work in chemist Pharmaceutical Guild that there will be no shops. They were provided for in the relevant difficulty in placing them in situations which award and a special salary classification was will meet with the approval of the board. made for them. It is well that that stage has passed. Mr. TUCKER: I am glad to have that assurance from the Minister. These are very Under the apprenticeship system young important matters. A while ago we were people were apprenticed not only as chemists talking about the liberty of the subject and but also, to a great extent, as shop assistants. the right of a person to go where he chooses With the intrusion of retail store lines into Pharmacy Acts Amendment Bill (2 MARCH] Water Acts Amendment Bill 2463 chemist shops, and with the wholesale pro pharmacists to work as pharmacists and not duction of drugs and pills, many chemists trade in a conglomeration of wares. How employed in chemist shops today are, to a ever, that is merely by the way. great degree, shop assistants. Their work is I agree with my Deputy Leader that the simply a matter of counting pills or pouring Bill does provide an improvement, and we a mixture from a large container into a will be in a better position to understand all small container and giving it to the customer. its implications when it has been printed. They do not gain experience doing that, and anything that will ensure practical know Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister ledge, as it seems the Bill does, is good. for Health) (4.42 p.m.), in reply: It appears Young people who work in a general hos that there is general approval Qf the Bill as pital or other large institution have a much it has been outlined, and I am glad to be greater opportunity of gaining practical able to proceed with the first reading and experience than those who work in retail its printing, after which members will see all chemists' shops. of the things to which I have referred set out in full detail. A good deal of a chemist's time is taken up with book work, especially that dealing The only comment I should like to make with health benefits and pensioners' benefits. in passing concerns the remarks of the Deputy Some of that work could be given to the Leader of the Opposition regarding the failure assistant or the person who is graduating. lt to give sufficient information on Bills at the is desirable that a guaranteed period of introductory stage. It will be recognised that practical training be set down for these young this is probably the only Parliament in Aus people. If a person moves around he has to tralia in which there is an introductory stage serve a minimum of one month in any shop. at which a summary of a Bill is given. I do not know whether members generally The Bill ensures the presence of a qualified would prefer this practice to be abandoned. person at all times. I do not know if that Although that is not for me to decide, what proposal was inserted following an incident the Deputy Leader of the Opposition said is in Sydney which led to a court case. A of interest. I should like to say that if he registered pharmacist left his premises and turns to "Hansard" and reads my remarks certain work was done by an unregistered at the introductory stage of the Radioactive person. The prescription was wrongly filled Substances Act Amendment Biii, I am sure and court proceedings followed. Young people he will find that everything I subsequently cannot get practical experience in retail shops said was said on that occasion. unless provision is made to ensure that they Motion (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. do. They certainly do not get sufficient Resolution reported. experience these days because of the whole sale preparation of medicines. They need FIRST READING experi_ence in filling actual prescriptions, and anythmg that ensures they get that experience Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. is good. Tooth, read a first time. ~s the Deputy Leader of the Opposition pomted out we will wait until we have the WATER ACTS AMENDMENT BILL Bill so that we can assess the situation INITIATION IN COMMITTEE accurately. I shall leave further comment until then. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair) Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (4.40 p.m.): From :vhat. has been said so far, the impression Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister for Local Government and Conservation) Is gam~d that th<:r<: will be a decided improve :nent m the trammg of pharmacists. There (4.45 p.m.): I move- 1s no doubt that the qualified chemist has a "That a Bill be introduced to amend great responsibility. He, not the doctor who the Water Acts, 1926 to 1964, in certain write~ it, _is . responsible for a prescription, particulars." .and, 1f 1t 1s mcorrect, he is held responsible The amendments proposed in the Bill are for any damage it causes. of three types. The first is one whi::h A point I should like to make is that most ensures that the Commissioner of Irrigation pharmacies today are rapidly turning into and Water Supply has power to exercise con ·crosses between cosmetic bars and green trol of the use and flow of water in artificial grocers' shops. About the only things they channels, as is now conferred on him by .have not got round to sel.ling are cabbages. the Act in relation to natural channels. The They now. st?ck ma_ny thmgs besides drugs second is a machinery clause designed to and chemists supplies. In chemists' shops correct an omission in previous drafting and one can now buy cameras, crystal ware, and does not alter the purposes of the Act in a host of other things. It will not be long any way. The third is an amendment to before their trading is extended to the point give the Chief Commissioner of Lands the where the modern pharmacist will sell the same right to appoint a deputy to conduct week-<:nd vegetables. I am wondering how an inquiry under section 73A as is now con far th1s can be allowed to go before some ferred on the Commissioner of Irrigation steps are taken to halt the trend and permit and Water Supply. 2464 Water Acts [ASSEMBLY) Amendment Bill The ex1stmg definition of "watercourse" is In addition to providing for this, the pro as follows:- posed amendment substitutes the word " 'Watercourse'-a river, stream, or "Commission" for the older title of creek (at every place where such river, "Board". The purpose of the section and stream, or creek is not subject to tidal the powers of the committee of inquiry have influence) in which water flows in a not been altered in any way. natural channel either permanently, inter The amending section brings up to date mittently, or occasionally." the references to the Land Acts by altering Because it is doubtful whether this definition the section number and the years indicated would give control over the water in an in the title, where applicable. Section 37 artificial channel or in a natural channel •hat (2) of the present Land Acts provides as has been artificially improved, it is desired follows- to put the matter beyond doubt by including "The Court or any member thereof, or such terms in the definition. There are a any member of the Court together with any number of instances where artificial channels member of the Commission, shall inquire are being constructed by river improvement into and report upon any matter con trusts, and without this amendment adjoining nected with the administration of this Act landholders could make diversions from these or any other Act administered by the channels to the detriment of downstream Minister which is referred to the Court landholders and licensees. It also brings or to such member, or to such member the definition "watercourse" in this Act into of the Court together with a member of harmony with that of "river" in the River the Commission, as the case may be, by Improvement Trust Acts, 1940 to 1965. the Governor in Council or the Minister. Section 16A was inserted by the Water "For the purposes of any such inquiry, Act Amendment Act of 1930, which made the Court or a member thereof, or a various amendments to the Irrigation Act member of the Court, together with a of 1922. Having achieved this purpose, the member of the Commission, shall have section number was left in the Water Acts and may exercise the powers of a Com contrary to present practice. It is usually mission under and within the meaning of printed as "16A" with a footnote giving the 'The Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1950 to above information. Accordingly, it is now 1954.', save such of those powers as are proposed to repeal the section. expressed by such Acts to be conferred upon a judge of the Supreme Court.'' Section 73A of the Water Acts provides- The purpose of these relatively small amend "In any case where it appears to be or ments is to tidy up minor deficiencies in the is represented to the Minister to be Act as it now stands. I commend the Bill desirable in the public interest that any to the Committee. watercourse or lake should be diverted or that any watercourse, lake or swamp Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (4.51 p.m.): On land should be reclaimed, the Minister the last occasion that we had before us a may refer the matter for inquiry and report Bill to amend the Water Acts, there were to a member of the Land Court together many provisions and the Bill was a lengthy with the Commissioner or a person duly one. Of course, it took the Opposition a authorised in writing by the Commissioner considerable time to go into the matter and and a member of the Land Administration study the various amendments then before Board; and any such reference shall be us. and be deemed to be a reference under On this ocassion it seems quite evident and pursuant to subsection two of section that there are only a few matters which were twenty-seven of 'The Land Acts, 1910 to missed when the Act was amended in 1964, 1937', the provisions of which subsection plus some other minor amendments now shall, mutatis mutandis, apply and extend necessary to allow the Minister and his depart accordingly. ment to carry out certain functions. The "The persons to whom the matter has Opposition will look at the Bill when it is been referred shall duly inquire into the printed. After all, only three amendments matter and furnish to the Minister a report are suggested. One seems to be of a together with a certificate as to whether machinery nature, something that was missed or not it would be in the public interest previously. We will have to assure ourselves to proceed with any such diversion or that that is in order, but that is all. reclamation, as the case may be." Another amendment deals with the matter of control over water in artificial channels. As some of the matters referred for inquiry We could understand this, particularly when may be of a minor nature and/or involve one realises the responsibility placed on lengthy inspections of remote areas, the river trusts in the job they are endeavouring Minister for Lands has asked that, because to do. it is sometimes difficult for a member of the Land Administration Commission to make No doubt officers of the various depart himself available, provision be made for ments controlling streams and watercourses that commission to decide whether a mem from time to time come across problems, par ber or other officer of the Department of ticularly where artificial channels have been Lands acts on the committee of inquiry. put in. In some instances, of course, problems Water Acts (2 MARCH] Amendment Bill 2465 can arise very quickly. After very heavy time can cause, through accretion or erosion rain in some areas considerable quantities of variations in land holdings. There can be a soil may be washed into streams, and these loss of land from the one block. On the officers have to endeavour to keep the other hand, by accretion-again by a change streams flowing so that water can reach in the course of a river or creek-there can properties further downstream. Something be a build-up in the area of another block. has to be done quickly, and I imagine that In the old days, when these things happened one of the reasons the Minister has brought over a period of time, the situation was this amending Bill before us today is to accepted as an act of nature. People accepted make sure that in any action taken the the fact that they lost a bit of land or gained department is protected. a bit of land. It is also quite easy to understand the Nowadays, with modern machinery we can request that the Chief Commissioner of artificially create rivers and streams. The Lands be given the same right to appoint legal situation in relation to the handling of a deputy to conduct an inquiry as is now titles and riparian rights generally is of vital vested in the Commissioner of Irrigation and importance. There have been many flood Water Supply. There is no doubt that under mitigation schemes, and while we realise that the Act any appeal that is not settled by they are desirable, they present problems in departmental heads will end up with the that rivers and creeks have been diverted and Commissioner. boundaries have thus been altered. Indeed, access to valuable water may have been When we consider the various depart made more difficult by such schemes. In the ments involved in this matter, which is past, whilst the engineering problems have so vital to the man on the land, it is true, be.en accepted by the community generally, as the Minister has outlined, that it would there may have been something missing in not always be possible for the Commissioner, the subsequent handling of titles to cater for particularly the Chief Commissioner of this action. Lands, to sit in on the inquiry. To save Like the hon. member for Belmont, I will any delay it is appropriate that he or be interested to see how the Bill is worded. I the head of any other department involved believe that if artificial watercourses are should have some way of overcoming the placed in the same category as natural water problem. We realise that Mr. Muir has courses there might be a case for further capable people in his department. After subsequent action to be taken in 1'hat it all, he has men who preside over the Land might be required to deal with the situation as Court and who are conversant with these a subdivision from the point of view of problems, and other departmental officers. transfer and adjustment of title. This is a It seems to the Opposition that this could be point we must not forget if, by a sudden a step in the right direction to save delays. downpour or a flood, portion of a man's land At this stage we do not propose to delay is cut off. It would then be held that he the printing of the Bill. We reserve any should not by a variation in the course of further comment until the second-reading a stream forgo that part of the land on the stage. other side of the creek from his main area of land, or the land compris.ed in the new bed Mr. UCKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (4.57 p.m.): of the stream. From time immemorial the subject of water However, the situation might prove a little rights has been very important in the admin more difficult if the severance of land is istration of land matters. The very sub caused by a man-made watercourse. If we division of land has been largely dependent are to create watercourses and administer on the availability of water. Indeed, in them in the same way as natural water earlier days it was normally accepted that courses, we should go about it in a workman a person whose property was bounded on like way so !'hat the necessary surveys are one side or several sides, by a river, held title made not from the point of view of the mere to the middle of the river. Without going location of the streams but from the point of into it to any great detail, because time view of the transfer and handling of land. does not permit it, I suppose one could This will mainly affect leasehold land but, on say that the original purpose of the Act the other hand, freehold land could also be would be to vest the beds and banks of affected. rivers and streams in the Crown: in other words, these lands would be the property of Whichever way it is, I hope we will not the Crown. Nevertheless, it would then be lose sight of the requirements of the Titles held in the old surveys that where the Office or the Department of Lands in boundaries of the block were not described correctly recording and registering any change by metes and bounds but where in fact the of ownership or disposition of land subject to boundary might happen to be the bank of a mechanical action being taken as envisaged creek or a river, the monument which in the Bill. established that boundary would in fact be I commend the Bill, but I will certainly be the bank of that river. looking at this aspect of it when it is printed. We all know that the course of streams Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister can change from time to time. The change for Local Government and Conservation) in the course of a river over a period of (5.4 p.m.), in reply: I thank the Committee 2466 Valuers Registration [ASSEMBLY Act Amendment Bill for its general acceptance of the Bill. In 2. A person who- relation to the point raised by the hon. mem (1) is of or above the age of twenty ber for Mt. Coot-tha concerning watercourses two years; and being the boundary of a property, there are some old titles on which that is the case. I (2) satisfies the Board that- make it perfectly clear that that has no (a) he is of good fame and relation to the definition at all. This definition character and is a fit and proper is for the purposes of this Act. A similar person to be registered as a valuer; definition covering a river is already con and tained in the River Improvement Trust Act. (b) either- The matter raised by the hon. member can (i) he holds a certificate of be taken up with the Minister in charge of the competence (recognised by the Real Property Act. There could be some com board) of an approved institute plications there. of valuers; or Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to. (ii) he has passed an approved Resolution reported. examination; (c) he has had sufficient practical FIRST READING experience in or in connection with Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. valuing land for at least four years Richter, read a first time. within the ten years last preceding the date of his application for registration." V ALDERS REGISTRATION ACT The definition of "public valuer" in section 3 AMENDMENT BILL of the Act includes- lNITIA TION IN COMMITTEE "any person who is called upon (whether as an employee of the Crown or otherwise) (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, to value land or any estate or interest in Greenslopes, in the chair) land for the purposes of any Act, regula Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister tion, ordinance, by-laws, or other enact for Local Government and Conservation) ment." (5.7 p.m.): I move- The effect of the foregoing provisions is that "That a Bill be introduced to amend the the registration board is empowered to Valuers Registration Act of 1965 in a register persons as valuers- certain particular." (a) Provision 1-if they are 25 years of The purpose of this Bill is to extend from age or over at the date of commencement 2 years to 4 years the period during which of the Act, have sufficient practical registration may be given according to experience, and apply for registration experience and without the approved examin within 2 years from the commencement of ation requirements. I make it perfectly clear the Act. This date is 14 February, 1968. that that is the only amendment, namely, (b) Provision 2-or alternatively if they to extend the period from 2 years to 4 years. are 22 years of age or over and they hold Section 13 of the Valuers Registration Act a certificate of competence, or have of 1965 reads-- passed an approved examin:;ttion, and have "Any of the following persons shall be at least four years' experience. entitled to be registered as a valuer:- The registration requirements apply to per 1. A person who- sons employed by State Government depart (1) is of or above the age of twenty ments as well as to those in private practice. five years at the date of commence Certain persons were appointed by at ment of this part; and least one Government department for valua (2) makes application for registra tion duties, or for training for such duties, tion as prescribed within two years without the requirement that they must at after such date;" some stage pass the valuation examinations. I emphasise the period of 2 years because The two-year term is insufficient to allow that is what the Bill refers to. some of these officers either to qualify by experience under the first provision of Section 13 continues- section 13 of the Act or to complete the (3) satisfies the Board that- approved examinations by February, 1968, (a) he is of good fame and under the second provision. That is rather character and is a fit and proper unfortunate. It is probable that this position person to be registered as a valuer; also applies to trainee valuers and others and employed in private practice. I have not the relevant figures, but it is possible th::tt (b) he has had sufficient practical some of them would be caught in this experience in or in connection with valuing land within the ten years position. last preceding the date of his appli Mr. Tucker: This would apply only to cation for registration; 22-year-olds? Valuers Registration (2 MARCH] Act Amendment Bill 2467 Mr. RICID'ER: No, 25-year-olds who registered and that their character and other have not bad practical experience within qualities were of the highest calibre. Hon. ten years. They could have been given jobs members were told also that persons employed as valuers just before the Act was brought in Government departments who had reached in, and they would have only a little more the age of 22 years and who had had a than two years' experience. number of years' practical experience in this The proposed extension of the period field could be granted registration. It is from two years to four years will permit evident that it took time to bring the pro those persons who are already operating as visions of the 1965 amending Bill into valuers, but who do not meet the existing operation, and the Government, because of requirements for registration by February, this, has brought down a further amending 1968, to fulfil the requirements for regis Bill to ensure that persons in either of the tration by experience under the first provi two categories to which I referred will not sion or the examinations under the second be debarred from fulfilling the requirements provision of section 13 by February, 1970. and passing the necessary examinations to enable them to be registered as valuers in This is a simple amendment but a neces Queensland. sary one, because without it some valuers I listened very intently to the Minister's would have to be excluded from registration. introductory remarks, and at this stage I Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (5.13 p.m.): A should say it is probable that the Opposition will support the amendment proposed. It Bill amending the Valuers Registration Act has never been the policy of the Opposition was brought before Parliament in December, to prevent from bettering himself anyone who 1965, during the Third Session of the Thirty seventh Parliament. The Government's can fulfil all the requirements laid down. Hon. members on this side of the Chamber intention on the registration of valuers w:ts will study the proposed amendment when then dealt with at length. We were then the Bill is printed, but I think it will have told that the intention of that Bill was to our support. improve the standard of valuation w:Jrk generally throughout the State, and to assist Mr. UCKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (5.19 p.m.): valuers working in many fields in their I support the proposed amendment. There calling. are usually problems in any new system of We were also then advised that, whether registration, and I believe that similar an applicant passed examinations or had problems arose with the registration of practical experience in the country, the final accountants in Queensland. decision on his registration would rest with the Valuers Registration Board, the chairman No-one would want to deprive a person of of which would be the Valuer-General. his livelihood where his inability to qualify There is no doubt that he would want to for registration could be a matter beyond be clear in his mind that an applicant, his control. As hon. members know, much irrespective of the category into which he of the training of valuers in the past has been came, had the necessary qualifications for conducted by the Commonwealth Institute registration. of Valuers. With the advent of the Queens land Institute of Technology it has been felt The Minister reiterated today that desirable to have the course conducted at employees of certain Government depart that institute. At the moment there is not ments are called upon to carry out valua a correspondence course available for valuers tions-for example, the valuation of land from the Institute of Technology and those and the valuation of estates-for depart valuers who are passing through their courses mental purposes. When the earlier amend will be able to continue this year, at least, ments were under consideration, the Opposi with correspondence courses a v a i J,a b I e tion indicated that it believed that every through the Royal Melbourne Institute of opportunity should be given to people, Technology. But as from next year it is whether they came into category 1 or anticipated that there will be both a cor category 2, to continue following the occupa respondence and class tuitional course at tion they had followed for a number of the Queensland Institute of Technology. years. Members of the Opposition were During this year I believe certain subjects particularly concerned at that time about can be taken as a night course at the persons working in the country who did not institute. have available to them facilities similar to those available to persons working either for It will be possible for all those who the Government or for private employers in are interested, and who are in the particular the metropolitan area of Brisbane or in in-between age groups at the moment, to provincial cities throughout Queensland, and qualify within the period envisaged by this they were very pleased to see that the amendment of the Act and 11 think those amending Bill made provision for them. people should be given every opportunity to do so. It is for that reason that I v.ery On that occasion the Minister pointed out, strongly support the Bill. But we must always as he has today, that those who offered them in questions of regi'stration look to the selves for registration subsequent to the pass purpose of registration. This, surely, is tlhe ing of the Bill would have to prove that protection of the public. I suggest to the they were fit and proper persons to be Committee that this proposal is the best 2468 Valuers Registration Act, &c., Bill [ASSEMBLY] Registration of Births, &c., Bill method Of achieving the purpose because I The hon. member for Mt. Coot-tha men would be very much against any relaxation in tioned certain qualifications or standards of the academic qualifications of valuers. examinations. I think .the Bill covers this very fully. This is an examination approved The Minister mentioned certain officers of by the board. The board approves of an in Government departments and I am not examination, and this will apply equally to all now referring only to the valuing profession. people who sit for it. I certainly agree that In terms of courses there is a tendency in you cannot have two standards--a lower one some Government circles to use a recognised for the Crown and a higher one for the man institute of education to fashion courses outside. which fulfil the requirements of the Public Service. This must be avoided at all cost. Mr. Tucker: This has never applied, has it? Mr. Newton: You are not referring to Mr. RICHTER: No. We do not want to persons doing their cadetship? apply it. The Bill is quite clear on this matter. It will be in .the hands of the board. Mr. UCKISS: It depends on the kind of The board will approve of the examination, cadetship. An instance is a course of which and to be given a "guernsey" ilie person will I have some knowledge-that of cartography. have to pass that examination. 1 think that When I completed the course in the is about as fair as it can be. 1940's it was then recognised as probably the best course for cartographers in Australia. I am not very concerned how valuers Until the Institute of Technology took some qualify for this examination. If one person interest in this course it had dropped to is capable of passing it in a shorter time than the position where the satisfactory passing another, I do not think it matters very much. of the course would not admit a Queens All that matters is that he is capable of pass land cartographer to the Australian Institute ing the examination approved by the board. of Cartographers, because the qualification I think it is made quite clear in the Bill, and was not high enough and had not kept pace I commend the legislation to the Committee. with other States or the profession. I 'SUggest Motion (Mr. Richter) agreed to. that the reason this course was allowed to slip was the fact that it was a course required Resolution reported. for classification in a State Government department. In other words, it was a course FIRST READING fashioned for the benefit of a Public Service Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. department and was not in the general Richter, read a first time. interests of education 'suitable in terms of the broad fields of both private enterprise and State Government. REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, DEATHS AND MARRIAGES ACT AND ANOTHER Very fortunately, this course is now being ACT AMENDMENT BILL looked at again and very much upgraded. I think we should always make sure, not INITIATION IN COMMITTEE only in Queensland but also elsewhere, that (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, those who graduate from the courses pre Greenslopes, in the chair) scribed by some of the Government educational institutes will be able to take Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen their places anywhere in the particular pro Minister for Justice) (5.30 p.m.): I move- fession. The fact that the majority will "That a Bill be introduced to amend the find their way into rhe Public Service or Registration of Births, Deaths and will end up in the Public Service should Marriages Act of 1962 and the Coroners not lessen in any way the academic require ments for the course. Act of 1958, each in certain particulars." This Bill deals with the introduction in I commend this measure. I feel .that the Queensland of a uniform medical certificate move to register valuers will bring untold of cause of perinatal death. The uniform benefit to this State, and that the profession medical certificate has been recommended after receiving recognition by registration will for Australia-wide use by the conference of ensure that c!he best possible service is given Australian statisticians and the National to the public of Queensland. Health and Medical Research Council in respect of- Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset-Minister (i) a child not born alive, of at least 20 for Local Government and Conservation) weeks' gestation or 400 grammes weight; (5.26 p.m.), in reply: I thank both the hon. and members for Belmont and Mt. Coot-tha for their contributions. I think they concede the (ii) a live-born child dying within 28 point that certain people will miss out on days after birth. registration through no fault of their own, The proposal to establish uniform procedures either through lack of experience or, with in this field has been supported by health years of experience, through not being able authorities in each State of the Common to pass the required examination in sufficient wealth. At a recent State Health Ministers' time. I think we must give these people a conference held in Cairns, my colleague the chance. Hon. S. D. Tooth, M.L.A., Minister for Registration of Births, [2 MARCH] Deaths and Marriages, &c., Biil 2469 Health, referred the proposal to the confer The Bill requires any medical practitioner ence and the C safeguards are retained in other Acts. l and benefit of the society. It may exercise think the Minister's explanation shows that all the powers vested in the society and do all any concern that anyone might have with such acts and things as are directed or regard to looseness in the use of certificates authorised by the provisions of those Acts to under the Coroners Act is well covered by be done by the society. the restrictions that have been included. At present the Queensland Law Society Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen Act provides that for the good government Minister for Justice) (5.41 p.m.), in reply: of the society there shall be a council of I do not think there is anything for me to the society which shall consist of not less say except to express appreciation to Opposi than eight or more than 11 persons, tion members for their support of the namely- measure. (a) a president and vice-president of the society; Motion (Dr. Delamothe) agreed to. (b) a member of the legal profession Resolution reported. (who may be either a barrister-at-law or FIRST READING a practitioner) appointed by the Minister; and Bill presented and, on motion of (c) not less than five or more than Dr. Delamothe, read a first time. eight members to be elected from practi tioners who are members of the society. QUEENSLAND LAW SOCIETY ACTS A practitioner is defined by the Act as a AMENDMENT BILL person duly admitted as a solicitor or con veyancer of the Supreme Court of Queens INITIATION IN COMMITTEE land and includes a barrister-at-law (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, practising as a solicitor. Greenslopes, in the chair) The present membership of the council has remained unchanged since 1927, when Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen the Law Society Act was first introduced. Minister for Justice) (5 .43 p.m.): I move- It is considered that the present member "That a Bill be introduced to amend the ship of the council is not sufficient to cope Queensland Law Society Acts, 1952 to with the society's expansion. The sole object 1963, in certain particulars." of the proposed Bill is to provide for the On 8 November, 1927, a Bill was introduced increase of two in the elected members of into this Parliament by the then Attorney the Queensland Law Society Incorporated. General to provide for the incorporation of The number of solicitors in Queensland the Queensland Law Society and the regula has almost doubled since 1927, and the tion of the legal profession. Included in that scope of the society's activities has increased Bill, which was assented to on 12 December, greatly during recent years. Unless the rules 1927, was provision for the constitution of a of the society otherwise provide, the members council of not fewer than eight or more than of the council hold office for a period of 11 persons. That was just 40 years ago. two years and are eligible for reappointment In 1930, a further Law Society Act, which or re-election, as the case may be. It will provided amongst other things for the estab be some time before the next election of lishment and administration of a Legal Prac members of the society to the council is titioners Fidelty Guarantee Fund and the held, and provision has therefore been made issue of annual practising certificates, became in the Bill to enable the council to appoint law. two elected members of the council to hold office on the council until the next election Those two statutes, which provided for the takes place. government of the solicitors' branch of the legal profession in Queensland, were reprinted All members of the council give their and consolidated in 1952 and, together with time voluntarily, without receiving any subsequent amendments, comprise the Queens recompense whatever, and the burden of land Law Society Acts, 1952 to 1963. carrying out the many and varied functions of the society, including the attendance of The Bill seeks to amend the Queensland the members of the council on many sub· Law Society Acts, 1952 to 1963, and the committees, as well as at meetings of the amendment contained in the Bill relates only council and on the Legal Assistance Corn· to the membership of the Council of the mittee, is very onerous. Members of the Queensland Law Society Incorporated. The public are amongst those who derive benefit Queensland Law Society Incorporated has from the duties performed from time to asked for the appointment of two additional time by members of the council. members of the council. At present the minimum is eight and the maximum is 11. The Bill is simple and straightforward, and has as its only objective an increase The Council of the Queensland Law of two in the elected members of the S?~iety Incorporated has, subject to the pro council. vrswns of the Queensland Law Society Acts, 1952 to 1963, the sole management of the Mr. Hanlon: I assume that the maximum society and of its officers and concerns and of eight has been increased now? of its income and property for the purposes Dr. DELAMOTHE: Yes. Mining Acts Amendment Bill [2 MARCH] Mining Acts Amendment Bill 2471 Mr. Hanlon: It goes from seven to 10 Due to the lower-grade deposits now being now; it went from five to eight? worked to recover rutile, zircon, ilmenite and other mineral sands, enormous tonnages of Dr. DELAMOTHE: It goes to 10 now sand must be processed to amortise the costly an additional two. I commend the motion plant and equipment necessary for the present to the Committee. method of .treatment. The mining companies Mr. HANLON (Baroona) (5.49 p.m.): On must first prove, and have access to, reserves the basis of what the Minister has told the capable of keeping the plant, etc. fully Committee about the proposed Bill, there occupied for many years. To protect these seems little reason why objection should resources the companies must of necessity be raised to it. apply for and hold numerous special mineral leases. In the case of special mineral leases. As the Minister pointed out, the number of the number of men to be employed and the members of the Council of the Queensland amount of expenditure are determined by the Law Society was fixed in 1927, and the figure Governor in Council. These are different can range from eight to 11, I understand, at from ordinary mineral leases, where the present according to whether five or eight manning and expenditure conditions are laid members are elected by the society itself down. When a company applies for a special from its members, plus the president and mineral lease the manning and expenditure vice-president and a member of .the profession conditions are laid down by the Governor in nominated by the Governor in Council. The Council. In effect, they are negotiated with scope of the legislation has widened over the Minister and officers of the Department that period and the responsibility that the of Mines, and they are then submitted to the Law Society is expected by the State to Governor in Council. carry in the interests of the council and of the public has increased. The number of In the case of certain special mineral lease Cabinet Ministers has increased from 10 to applications received recently, my depart 13, I think, and all organisations have found mental officers considered that if the company it necessary to expand their governing bodies concerned employs 80 men on the areas and to cope with growth and development. A expends $2,000,000 a year that would be legal aid scheme has been introduced, and I satisfactory. However, Crown Law Office think the society has accepted responsibilities advice is that the total men and expenditure in that connection. It therefore seems logical cannot be applied to all the leases, and that that the society should be asking for per individual labour conditions and expenditure mission to extend membership of the council. must be prescribed for each lease. In effect, As I say, unless examination of the Bill or if a company has several special mining any other information that comes to our leases scattered in a certain locality we hand shows otherwise, on the information desire to put the manning and expenditure that the Minister has given it seems to be a conditions on the aggregation of all the reasonable provision. leases. Motion (Dr. Delamothe) agreed to. Mr. O'Donnell: You can put it only on the individual ones. Resolution reported. Mr. CAMM: At the present time we can FIRST READING apply these working and manning conditions Bill presented and, on motion of Dr. only to each individual area. This is most Delamothe, read a first time. unsatisfactory from the point of view of the company and the department. Instead of one [Sitting suspended from 5.55 to 7.15 p.m.] large efficient programme a number of small, scattered and unsatisfactory ventures would MINING ACTS AMENDMENT BILL exist. For instance, in the case I mentioned earlier, where we consider that the employ INITIATION IN COMMITTEE ment of 80 men and the expenditure of (Mr. Hodges, Gympie, in the chair) $2,000,000 would be satisfactory for working an aggregation of small special leases, it Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday~Minister would be futile to expect the company to for Mines and Main Roads) (7 .16 p.m.): I employ nine or 10 men on each individual move- lease and have a small plant for processing "That a Bill be introduced to amend the the mineral sands. That would be uneconomic Mining Acts, 1898 to 1965, in certain par and, in our opinion, quite undesirable. ticulars." The same position applies to leases held Work is at present proceeding on the revision by other companies, and prior to the coming and consolidation of the Mining Acts and it into operation of the revised Act it is is expected that as a result legislation will be expected that it will apply to other com ready for submission to Parliament during panies. We feel that many companies will the August session. We will then have all apply to take advantage of these proposals, the Mining Acts consolidated. However, it is which will empower the bulking of labour considered that several pressing minor amend and expenditure requirements attaching to ments should be made prior to that event and special mineral and sand-mining leases held the amendment I am presenting this evening by the one company within a defined is one of those. area only. 2472 Mining Acts Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY] Mining Acts Amendment Bill I str~ss that it is not proposed to allow of such leases and who might desire to be compames to amalgamate labour and heard by the warden when the application expenditure provisions for their State-wide is before him. operations. This will apply only when special leases are confined to a particular Mr. Sherrington: Does that apply to area. A company could not hold a special sand-mining? mining lease in the Brisbane area and another in the Charters Towers area and Mr. CAMM: This applies to all mineral expect to bulk its labour and expenditure leases. There could be a case where some conditions. minerals were discovered across a range from the nearest warden's court, and it Mr. Hanson: It is an area within the could be more convenient for the company ambit of the warden? to go up the valley side of the range to a Mr. CAMM: Not necessarily within one town and more convenient to the people in warden's district. It must be in a particular that local-authority area. locality. For instance, we could have Mr. Hanson: Any dispute relative to a wardens in many of the larger towns along lease will still be referred to the warden the coast and special mineral or sand-mining appointed by the Minister? leases could be scattered along the coastline and may extend beyond the area administered Mr. CAMM: Yes. The Governor in by one warden. Council will have the right to nominate the The latter part of the Bill deals with warden who will hear the application. Some the administrative problem associated with applications might have been heard in the the grant of special leases over large areas. wrong warden's court. It is quite conceivable The section of the Act dealing with wardens' that the most convenient warden's court has courts presently states that when a lease, been accepted as the one to hear the appli etc., is applied for over an area which is cation although, as the crow flies, another outside a proclaimed field the application warden's court was closer. This whole must be lodged at the office of the nearest position could arise only from the difficulty warden. We have several mineral and gold of deciding which was the nearest court. fields in Queensland that are defined, and any application from a company to lease If disputes arise over applications being an area within a mineral field would be heard in a court that was not the closest, the heard at the warden's court covering that field. Bill contains provisions validating leases granted following such hearings. The amend Mr. Hanson: Does the same go for pros pecting authorities? ment merely validates leases granted in such circumstances. Mr. CAMM: Yes. In the case of special I commend the Bill to the Committee. mineral, gold-mining and coal-mining leases covering large areas, it could well be that Mr. SHERRINGTON (Salisbury) (7.26 different parts of the one lease are nearer p.m.): Without being able to make the detailed to varying wardens, and it is doubtful study of the Bill that I shall make after it whether in these circumstances a lease could has been printed, I think I can fairly and be legally granted. For instance, a special reasonably state at this stage that the Opposi mineral lease could extend through the tion will take no serious umbrage at the districts of three wardens, and it is doubtful proposals that the Minister has stated are whether we can grant a lease that can be contained in the Bill. He informed the heard at one warden's court. We might Committee in the closing stages of his speech have to split the leases up and hear them that it is quite possible that applications for at three different wardens' courts. Therefore, some leases were heard in the wrong warden's we feel that it is desirable to remove this anomaly. court, and the amendment is designed to validate such leases so that their holders are This part of the Bill proposes to provide not penalised for something to which they that when an area over which a lease is have a moral right although in theory the applied for is outside a proclaimed field the law may have been transgressed. Governor in Council can determine which warden's court can hear and determine all The Minister's indication that the Mining matters appertaining to such lease, which Act is in the process of consolidation is most desirable from the point of view demonstrates the development of the mineral of the applicant and of the department. wealth of the State. I do not think that When people have special mineral leases the Opposition has any quarrel with the we have to nominate the warden's court, and Ministers statement that there have been it is considered that the Governor in Council difficulties in regard to applications for leases, should be able to nominate which warden's and that to eliminate many of the problems, court wiU hear an application and listen to particularly those that involve the areas of objections. This determination will naturally several wardens, the Governor in Council mean that the Governor in Council will should have the right to delegate to the nominate the most convenient warden's appropriate warden authority to hear the court, always taking into consideration the case. He will take into account, of course, rights of the local authority and the people the interests of local authorities and other who would be affected most by the granting interested bodies. Mining Acts Amendment Bill [2 MARCH] Mining Acts Amendment Bill 2473 I should like to refer very briefly to did not happen when the mineral lease in sand mining leases. On what has happened the vicinity of the Teewah coloured sands following the mining of beaches in Northern was granted. New South Wales, I am wondering whether From my knowledge of the particular lease it might be desirable for the Government that was granted, the notice regarding objec to look seriously at mining activities on tion was lodged in one of the Gympie papers beach fronts. While leases lay down very in the middle of the Christmas holidays strict conditions for the restoration of the when many people were away on vacation, area covered by beach mining, I am not and the period of time for objection had satisfied in all cases that erosion will not expired before many people even noticed occur once the natural seafront has been it. We have to take into consideration that disturbed. At one time parts of Northern in those particular circumstances many New South Wales were an angler's paradise, people in the community would be vitally and anyone who visited those areas noticed interested in the conservation of our beauty the sandhills and vegetation that nature spots and picturesque beaches-people like had built up over the centuries as a barrier the Naturalists' Society and the Society for against the encroachment of the sea. Hon. the Preservation of Australia's Native Flora. members should bear in mind that the I think that is their correct title. But what search for minerals is never-ending and that ever it is, there are many people in the com rutile, ilmenite, monazite and many other munity who, because of their interest in minerals are being used more and more conservation, would be vitally and keenly commercially, and I think serious considera interested in these things. tion should be given to the conditions laid down in beach-mining leases to ensure that Whilst it is desirable that the Governor in seafront erosion will not occur in the near Council should take into consideration all future. of the geographical features, the location of the lease, and the mining warden's district, Mr. Armstrong: Most of the leases are he should ensure that in making a decision back from the seafront. to delegate to a certain mining warden's court the authority to determine the lease Mr. SHERRINGTON: The point I am he is not taking away from the interested trying to make is that in Northern New South public the opportunity to lodge their ?bjec Wales they are not. Anyone who remembers tions to the lease. And although a partJcular the natural sandhills there and the absence lease might be in the vicinity of Tewantin of erosion cannot but be disturbed by or Shute Harbour or some other place, it the levelling off of the seafront and has to be borne in mind that possibly as the restoration that is being carried out. many people in Brisbane as in the affected I have grave doubts about erosion not occur district would be interested in lodging objec ring in the future. tion to that lease, if they thought mining would be detrimental to what they con An experiment is being carried out at sidered to be a national asset. I do not think we can allow another instance of what Bribie Island at present in an endeavour occurred in connection with the Teewah to determine the best methods of combating mineral sands. sea erosion, but I do not think there is any more effective counter to it than the sand I am not for one moment saying that that hills and vegetation that have been built was deliberate; I would not imply that, but up naturally by the elements over millions I do think that many people far removed from the coloured sands area were denied of years. A couple of years ago I referred the opportunity to object because the adver in this Chamber to sand-mining in the tisement appeared in only one country news vicinity of the famous Teewah coloured paper in circulation in the Gympie district. sands. Many people were interested in that When we consider the number of people subject because, let us face it, over the remote from the affected area who might years much more will be made out of those have valid grounds for objection, we realise sands as a tourist attraction than will be how careful we must be to ensure, in deter made out of mining them. The Teewah mining the proper warden's court to hear sands are unique; once destroyed, they can a case that sufficient publicity is given to never be replaced. In my opinion they should the m~tter so that all interested people in the community will have an opportunity to be safeguarded carefully. Let me make object to the particular lease. it clear that I am not opposed to beach mining, which is quite a worth-while com The Minister pointed out that the mercial venture. In most cases the deposits Governor in Council could determine that are replenished over a period; fresh minerals the employment factor of 80 men and the expenditure of $2,000,000 per year should are washed up by the sea. However, if not be applied because of the fact that a world-renowned feature is to be endanger.ed, today many of the leases sought are in we should be very careful to ensure that areas in which there is a low-grade return. every person who is inter.ested has an I do not think we could seriously quarrel opportunity of lodging his or her objection with that, particularly on the score that the in a warden's court. I understand that that mining of these low-grade deposits would 81 2474 Mining Acts Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY] Mining Acts Amendment Bill be far preferable to destroying a natural one of the mining companies there is handling tourist attraction which I feel could be of the same tonnage in a day from its small benefit to the community. And there is no mine as the big Mt. Isa mine--1 am not talk doubt that this State has many attractions ing now about value. Obviously it is cheap to offer the tourist. mining and easy mining, so that it is attrac Mr. Lee: There are many places where the tive while the price is good. The industry tourist could not get to the beach but for had its years of depression not long ago, but the access these people have provided. the market is rising. The land that contains these minerals, Mr. SHERRINGTON: The hon. member such as the high dunes on Stradbroke Island, for Yeronga points out that people would not are valuable; so, too, are the premier be able to get to some of these more remote grazing and agricultural lands of Queensland. picturesque spots but for the work of the When dealing with agricultural land the mining companies and the developmental Department of Lands has no hesitation in conditions laid down as part of the lease. That ensuring that for local-authority purposes could be true. I am not denying that in many the provisions of the Public Works Land instances beach mining has meant the Resumption Act prevail so that land may be development of an area. It all comes back acquired for public purposes irrespective of to the unfortunate truth that not enough the use of the land. But that is not so under attention has been paid to proper investiga the Mining Act, which is archaic_ I was tion and survey of areas that could be of indeed pleased to hear the Minister say that great attraction to overseas visitors. Let us it is to be consolidated and revised. It face it: they do not come here to look at our belongs to the days when the gold-mining gardens and parks but to see something wardens moved around with pack-horses entirely Australian. amongst the mining camps. It is long overdue lt would be a sad commentary if we had for revision. to mine our beauty spots simply to obtain With fixed ore bodies, resumption rights access roads to them, particularly in the light should not be possible. No council can seek of statements emanating from the Govern to take land that contains ore bodies, but ment, including the one last week from the when dealing with vast, broad acres for Minister for Labour and Tourism who said mineral sands-and thousands of acres are that the tourist industry was not being involved in some of these leases--the acquisi neglected, and referred to a sum of something tion of land for public purposes would create like $140,000,000. The mining of low-grade no great hardship or national loss within deposits in scattered areas and the applica the aggregation while the mining lease tion of sensible conditions to those mining is in operation. I therefore strongly operations, such as the Minister has suggest to the Minister that, while the con enunciated this evening would be far prefer solidation of these areas is desirable, he able to applying unreasonable conditions on approach this matter very cautiously as these the mining companies. large aggregations contain thousands of acres. I do not think that the Opposition will take Discussions with geologists reveal that the serious umbrage at what is proposed by the mineral sands in the high sand dunes on Bill. At the same time, we are just not going Stradbroke originated in the granite belt of to accept at its face value anything the New England country and eventually worked Government places before us, because, after their way down to their present situation all, it is our responsibility to examine all long before Stradbroke was in existence. The legislation carefully. However, on this depth of these mineral sands is therefore occasion I feel that at this stage I can indicate unknown and they could be mined and that we are not seriously opposed to the re-mined at depth as new methods evolve. measure. The public interest must be safeguarded so Mr. E. G. W. WOOD (Logan) (7.44 p.m.): that access is available. If the Minister The Minister has said, and I agree, that the grants aggregation without reference to the consolidation of these leases allows the lessee local authority and public resumptions can companies to place all their resources in one not be made, access will be denied to the sector at a time. Furthermore, it provides public perhaps for generations, until the security of tenure for their operations on areas have been mined and revert to the which they have a big capital outlay. Crown. I realise that the minerals they are mining Dealing now with the Redland Shire, Con are space-age minerals; they are the minerals solidated Rutile on Stradbroke and T.A.Z.I., from which space rockets are constructed. generally speaking, are not co-operating with They are dollar-earners for the Government, the local authority. I do not blame them from attracting a royalty of $1.50 a ton. Opera a business point of view. Their idea is to take tions on Stradbroke Island alone probably out as much as they can and put back as earn $200,000 a year for the Government in little as possible. The high sand dunes on royalties. I am speaking from memory when Stradbroke are only good for putting in I quote that figure. The previous speaker house posts, and that does not matter very referred to beach-mining operations at Kings much. Nor does erosion matter a great cliff. I have had an opportunity to see what deal. However, I am interested in the 18 is being done in that area. I understand that Mile Beach on Stradbroke Island, which is Mining Acts Amendment Bill [2 MARCH] Mining Acts Amendment Bill 2475 probably one of the finest beaches in Aus the efficient manner in which it has been tralia. The leases are held by Consolidated conducted. In the exploiting of mineral Rutile and T.A.Z.I. The Redland Shire sands, some inconvenience is inevitable. Council has sought, in the mining warden's Someone will always be inconvenienced in court, to ensure that certain areas of mining operations, whether they be for the beach are retained for town-site pur gold, coal, or mineral sands. If the poses. Each time we go to the warden's inconvenience can be lessened, that is cer court it costs $400. We get a decision tainly desirable. I feel that in introducing and then the applicants employ the best the Bill the Minister has had that object legal brains and within a week another in view. company has put a peg in. I implore Any company that employs 80 men and the Minister to go to the local auth spends $2,000,000 a year must be protected onties and see what their wishes are if it is to exploit the wealth of our mineral before he grants leases. This should be sands. If such a company can have two looked into. We have had difficulty acquiring or three localities in the one mining lease, land for a golf links and other purposes, that will be of assistance to it, as I do not because the council has not the right to think it would be economically possible to resume. It took two years to acquire land employ 80 men and spend $2,000,000 a year for a pipeline. at one locality. The machinery used in beach Mr. Houston: When was that? mining is expensive and must be kept pro ducing if the venture is to be successful. Mr. E. G. W. WOOD: Recently. Instead of having a lease on one section Mr. Houston: While this Government has of the beach and another lease on another been in power? section, even if they are close together, conducting those operations under one lease Mr. E. G. W. WOOD: No. It was under is desirable and should prove satisfactory an Act which Labour enforced for 30 years. to both the department and the company I can see what the Minister is trying to do. concerned. The Minister said that the posi He is putting these people on a consolidated tion at present is unsatisfactory to both area so that they can adequately carry out parties. their operations. While the Minister has the opportunity of reviewing the aggregations The provisions of the Bill will apply to that he proposes to give these companies, he established firms as well as new ventures should apply stringent conditions to ensure in the exploitation of mineral sands. I that public areas are mined immediately and think that that is only fair, and I can see that beach frontages are properly rehabili no reason why there should be objection to tated. The leases these companies hold will it. take generations to mine. Before the The special leases will apply to one locality Minister grants aggregations he should ensure and not through-out the State. The present that these companies have adequate capital provision that applications for lease~ are to carry out their work on these valuable to be made to the nearest warden's CvJrt areas, and he should most certainly go back has, as the Minister has said, presented to the local authority for advice. difficulties because of geographical and physical obstacles in getting to it. The Mr. ~NAI.:D ~Ipswich West) (7.54 p.m.): amendment will make it possible to register The Mm1ster, m mtroducing this Bill, gave with a warden's court in another locality me no reason to feel apprehensive about it. It which is easier of access. I feel that does not interfere in any way with the everything that makes for greater convenience working conditions of the mines, mining must tend to give greater satisfaction to generally, or the safety of mines. The those engaged in this industry. Instead Minister is taking the opportunity to intro of the application having to be made on duce this measure to assist in the consolida a geographical basis to the warden's court tion of the Mining Acts in the near future. nearest to the lease, the Governor in Council This is a step in the right direction. If I will state to which warden's court the followed the Minister correctly, instead of application shall be made. Again, I cannot several Acts dealing with mining there will see any objection to that. The Governor be one consolidated Act which will make in Council will say, "You have to go to mmmg legislation readily available and such-and-such a mining warden", and before easily interpreted. making that decision it will investigate the The ~on. member for Salisbury, who is position thoroughly and choose the mining the charrman of the Opposition's committee warden who, in its opinion, will give the on mining, and the hon. member for Logan most satisfaction and be most conveniently devoted most of their speeches to the great situated not only to the company that is concern that they feel over beach mining. exploiting the minerals but also to the I am not going to say that they were not department, and the department has to be justified, because the beauty of our beaches considered on all occasions. has to be maintained. Such phenomenal The proposed Bill will validate all existing assets as the coloured sands on the North leases. I do not know whether there are Coast must be protected at all costs. I any invalid leases at present, but the clause do feel, however, that much of the opposi in the amending Bill will ensure that pro tion to beach mining has been removed by tection is given if there are. 2476 Mining Acts Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY] Mining Acts Amendment Bill The hon. member for Logan expressed Mining Acts of Queensland. I hope that in some concern about royalties. I have a that consolidation much of the dead wood in very firm opinion on royalties. I believe the existing Acts will be cut away. that the land and the beaches belong to the people and that any royalties should be But let us not decry the purpose and the paid to the Government. In my opinion, use of the original Mining Acts, not only in Governments, both past and present, have Queensland but in all other States of given and are giving minerals to companies Australia. I think it could be truly said that -in some cases foreign companies-at they were based on the miner's right that royalties that are too low. There was a existed in the days of the prospector and the time when the people of Britain, who were gouger. We have seen how, over a period of receiving royalties from the coal-mining com time, a number of these so-called "gouger panies of Britain, received more in royalties shows" have emerged as very rich deposits. I from a trip by a Cunard liner from Liver instance Mt. Isa and Mary Kathleen. But we pool to America than the entire wages bill have to keep pace with modern-day trends of the company for that trip. That was, of and I should like to see, in any redrafting course, private enterprise. I believe that the and consolidation of the Acts, many of the Government should protect the interests of surface tenures presently in them transferred the people and that the royalties should be to the Land Act and ultimately put on more sufficient to enable the local authority or secure tenures. the Government to improve the areas in which mining operations are carried on. I think we have to realise that in this modern day and age the role of the Mr. Lee: You will agree that $1.50 is prospector is not quite so prominent, a fairly stiff royalty? although it is still a vital role bearing in mind recent developments that have taken Mr. DONALD: If $1.50 is paid by the place and recent discoveries of mineral companies now exploiting the deposits, they deposits which have largely been attributed could afford to pay more. to the small prospector. The day of the geological survey and gravity survey and I do not agree that any company should more highly scientific approaches to mineral flout the wishes of a local authority, and exploration is here. Consequently, any I do not think that any local authority redrafting of the Act will, I trust, take cog would so fail in its duty as to allow part nisance of our modern trends. of its territory to be exploited to the dis advantage of the citizens of the area. The We have before us today a measure dealing hon. member for Logan was quite correct with a mining tenure and it proposes .to allow in suggesting that the local authority should the amalgamation of certain special mining be consulted in one way or another before leases to facilitate the working of the plant land or property under its jurisdiction is and allow a more programmed system of exploited in any way. I was pleased that recovery of the deposits on the various leases the hon. member for Logan concluded his as amalgamated. speech by saying that he agreed with the Minister, because, after listening to him for The amalgamation of leases for the purpose three or four minutes after he got to his of facilitating the working of mines is not feet, I thought he was going to oppose the new. Indeed, I suggest that in all parts of measure. Australia there have been amalgamations of mining leases to facilitate the working of The Opposition will, of course, examine mines but, again in keeping with modern the Bill very carefully when it is printed, trends, we find a new form of mining pre but at this stage I do not think there is sented to us. One would almost be hesitant anything to which I can take serious to call it mining; I prefer to refer to it more exception. It is to be hoped that the in terms of harvesting the mineral wealth. proposed Bill will remedy the faults to It is applicable not only to the heavy which the Minister referred and will assist sands such as rutile, zircon and ilmenite but, in making the consolidated Mining Act, in the Rockhampton area, to common salt. I which the Minister said will be brought think our approach to the recovery of mineral down in the next session of Parliament in wealth of this type might differ greatly from August this year, much better than the our approach to the recovery of gold and present Act. I trust that all that the Minister silver and to all the traditional mining hopes, all the benefits that he thinks will activities that appear to be associated with flow from this mining Bill, will eventuate. the Mining Acts in this State. But, at the moment, I cannot see how we can fear its introduction. In the train of this modern trend there are a number of considerations for this Mr. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (8.5 p.m.): I Committee. First of all, in terms of special believe that any review of the Mining Acts mining leases we are not dealing in tens of in th1s State merits the closest attention from acres but in thousands of acres. If we this Assembly as they are the Acts which amalgamate certain leases, we will be dealing regulate the production of minerals, with with thousands upon thousands of acres. A which Queensland is so richly endowed. I am mineral tenure prohibits the free use of the sure we were all pleased to hear from the land by other than the registered parties Minister that it is proposed to consolidate the just as surely as a normal land tenure does. Mining Acts Amendment Bill [2 MARCH] Mining Acts Amendment Bill 2477 I would suggest, in terms of the proposal an interested party may object to the grant made by my colleague the hon. member for ing of a lease, but the Minister has the final Logan, that a resumption in terms of a say after receiving the recommendation from mineral lease is often in a much different the warden concerned. In general terms, category from a normal surface lease or there is adequate protection. I am con tenure. When we consider the value of a cerned only with the tying up of large areas deposit in a particular area to be resumed of land on conditions that, after all, are we can realise the difficulties involved in established on the day of signing the lease determining such values. and cannot be varied except with the consent of both parties to the lease. When the If mining interests approach the Govern Minister or the Governor in Council desig ment for the facility of the amalgamation of nates the covenants of the lease, the leases, I would suggest that the covenants Minister should ensure that he provides of those leases should be framed in such a what he feels is necessary for the protection way that there will be give-and-take arrange of the public interest. I ask him to incor ments over the years that ensue. We all porate in such leases a provision for the realise that once conditions have been laid exclusion of areas should they be subse down in a lease, they cannot be varied at any quently required for public purposes, to be subsequent time without the consent of both effected by order of the Governor in Council, parties to the lease-the Government on one and without compensation. hand and the mining company on the other. Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (8.17 p.m.): There is more than just the particular I feel that I should make a small contribu interest or interests of the mining company tion to this debate. I do not wish to delay involved; there is more than just the particular the Committee unduly, but many of the interest of the Crown from the point of view matters raised by the Minister in his intro of revenue from royalties involved: there is ductory speech were very interesting. I was the interest of the general public. In this particularly pleased to hear him say that in Committee, as the protectors of the public, the next session of Parliament he will bring we must look to what will be the position in down a consolidation of the Mining Act. the years to come. Many thousands of Such an action is vitally important and par acres along our coastal beaches are tied up ticularly desirable. This matter has been in mining leases. Provision should be written exercising the minds of many of the into the leases for the exclusion of certain Minister's worthy departmental officers, par areas should it be considered necessary ticularly his fine Under Secretary, Mr. Healy. from time to time, to so exclude them in the During his many years of experience as public interest. permanent head of the department he has In view of the statement of the Minister played a significant part in framing much that this type of mining operation is necessary of our mining legislation. I hope he will because it is a low-grade deposit, I should carry on and bring forward some excellent like to see provision made that, on the ideas in the consolidation of the Mining Acts, direction of the Governor in Council, areas which will be of great benefit to the State. can and will be released for a public purpose, The Minister should be proud and pleased and that when the lease is signed the signa to have such a fine officer in his department. tories to it will agree to that provision. We The Minister referred to numerous special as members representing the public now are leases for mineral sands mining. I know making arrangements affecting many something of the activities of a few of the thousands of acres of land which will bind companies in areas over which they hold our children and possibly our children's leases. They are certainly bogged down children. with the law as it stands. If they exercise In a mining operation such as this, which a sphere of influence in one area, it is cer has been said to be a low-grade mining tainly desirable that there should be some proposition, if the Government is prepared to form of aggregation. I should preface those meet the requirements of the mining company, remarks by saying that initially the aggre the mining company equally should be pre gation must be acquired by means that are pared to meet the requirements of the quite fair and that give an equal chance to people of Queensland in the future, without other companies to participate in the benefits compensation being payable. I believe, as that accrue from the leases. previously mentioned, that suitable protection I am very pleased that the Minister has here would be by an order issued by the come forward with some ideas on mineral Governor in Council to the effect that the sands leases. It may not be common know land was required for a public purpose. I ledge that the world today is suffering from believe that many of the points raised by a grave shortage of rutile sands. There are hon. members on both sides of the Chamber supplies in Sierra Leone and other places are indeed worthy of consideration. but they are reaching the short-fall stage. Under the terms of the Mining Act, local Considerable emphasis is today being authorities-and much has been said about placed on ilmenite. It is the low-grade ore them--can, and do, have a voice in these in mineral sands. From it a chemical matters prior to the determination of the process produces synthetic rutile, which will lease. In the warden's court, anyone who is play a highly significant part in the space-age 2478 Mining Acts Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY] Mining Acts Amendment Bill programme. It is a challenge not only point. I hope that the Government takes to this State and to this country but to notice of these submissions. After all, there is the world at large because we will go a lot to be said for both sides of the through a very exciting and stimulating argument. time with many minerals from the beaches of this country. Companies that are in any way substantial will provide employment in their areas of Titanium, a derivative of mineral sands, is operation. They will create jobs possibly for playing a significant part in oceanography many hundreds of ratepayers in a shire area, and also in the production of space rockets. and will continue their employment for many Industrial activity in the United States is years. Their operations are therefore of con always running at a very high level, and siderable benefit to the area. the constant demand for titanium metal is approaching boom conditions because of the The hon. member for Mt. Coot-tha said considerable impact of the supersonic trans that the day of the gouger is over. I could port programme, the demands of the not agree more. Very few areas of Queens chemical-processing industries, and a matter land now exhibit rich outcropping of any of very vital importance to us all in this kind. Many were picked over by gougers civilisation, the needs of a desalination pro years and years ago. With the depth required gramme. Initial experiments with this pro in mining today, the necessity for scientific cess have been conducted in various countries geological equipment, and the assimilation of many of which experience the ravages of geological data, it is expensive for a mining drought and are unable to conserve fresh company not only to operate a lease but to water supplies. I am led to believe keep geological exploration parties in the from reading scientific magazines and data field. I might refer the Minister to the very that ~itar:ium will play a significant part in significant assistance given in this country to desalmatwn programmes. It is wonderful exploration groups engaged in the search for to realise that those programmes might be oil. Many of our base metals--copper, for successful because of products contained in instance--are vital to progress, and millions our beac~ sands. It is something we should and millions of dollars are spent in activities be cogmsant of. In giving this matter such as core drilling associated with the attention, the Minister will assist those com search for them. This certainly merits some panies that are spending considerable sums assistance when one considers the way in of money to develop their activities. which oil companies have in recent years been so generously treated. The Minister spoke of various leases and the idea of aggregating them. By interjection Some time ago I referred in this Chamber I :"u.ggested that there already exists in our to regional geological offices, and I was told mmmg laws the right to apply for exemption by .the Minister of the closing of one of them from labour conditions. It is simply a in the days of a Labour Government. (I was matter of applying to the warden. But no only about 12 months out!) Nevertheless, the doubt the various number of leases held Government has not seen fit to restore them by a company would require a considerable despite the fact that there has been increased amount of book-work, and would take a good activity in mining throughout the State. This deal of a warden's time. increased activity has not happened because the Country and Liberal Parties are in By interjection I asked the hon. member Government, but because great emphasis is for Logan abo~t matters appertaining to placed throughout the world today on all the Redland Sh!fe and whether his shire types of mining activity. Every country is council knew of any cases in which com engaged to the fullest extent in efforts to P~r:ies had applied for exemption from con produce the base metals that are its ordinary ditiOns and the council had applied the economic requirements, and of value in local authority rate. Some do and some export programmes. do not. There are arguments both for and against.. Quite ?ften a company may apply Years ago, if one looked at a map of to a shire council for exemption from labour Queensland in a warden's office or the conditions claiming that it is spending many Department of Mines, one would see on it thousands of dollars in a prospecting area. large areas shown as such-and-such mineral Some companies are bringing geologists and areas. The maps had L. C. Ball's name on all types of expensive equipment to the area, them. I think he was the Government and . they ask for, and on many occasions Geologist at the turn of the century-a very receive, generous treatment from the shire fine old geologist, too. With the new mineral council. discoveries and the new fields that have been opened, the mapping of mineral areas On the .other hand, there are ratepayers of is out of date. I hope, therefore, that when the council who have lived in the shire for the Act is consolidated many of the mineral many years and who, although they have areas will be recast so that there will not suffered bad times on their farms and be any confusion about what is intended by selectio~s, are allowed no exemptions. They the Minister in the amendments now under ask vanous people in authority, such as mem consideration. I realise that the Minister is bers of Parliament and any others whose trying to assist people who wish to make ear they can get, why there should be this application to warden's courts, but questions discrimination, and one feels that they have a will arise as to which areas are governed Mining Acts Amendment Bill [2 MARCH} Mining Acts Amendment Bill 2479 by which warden's court and either the along and built a road to them at consider Minister or the Under Secretary of the able expense, with the result that that par Department of Mines will have to make a ticular beach has become a very popular decision on the arguments submitted by the tourist attraction. people concerned and by the officers of the department. In my opinion, the mineral Mr. Sberrington: It is a sad commentary areas presently shown on the maps should that they had to do it. be cast aside and, because of the new mineral discoveries that have been made, new maps Mr. CAMM: I have assured the hon. mem ~hould be provided by the department show ber that those sands will not be dismrbed; mg the areas that come under the jurisdiction there is no intention to grant a lease of the of particular wardens. coloured sands. I have visited the area and I know they are a unique attraction to Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (8.33 p.m.): tourists. However, we should always bear Recently it was my good fortune to see in mind that had it not been for the mining the wonderful Snowy ruver scheme, and company the only people who could have one of the remarks made by the hon. mem seen those sands would have been those ber for Salisbury about erosion registered able to go by boat. very f~rcibly in ?JY mind. The Snowy Mr. Sherrington: It is acknowledged that Mountams Authonty has taken precautions that is a very unstable area, and beach to restore and protect the countryside that mining could seriously affect it. was devastated in the construction of the scheme. .It has engaged in pine planting and Mr. CAMM: We will keep that point in the plantu:~& of other vegetation of the right type to mitigate the effects of erosion. mind. The company is doing a remarkably good job. It has built substantial homes for On a visit to Bribie Island I was told by its employees, and its rehabilitation work !he resid~nts that mistakes were being made has been of a very high standard. m plantmg the wrong type of vegetation and not planting vegetation that is native The hon. member for Logan is very worried to th~ district and grows well locally. about the acquisition of land for public pur Extensive beach-mining is being conducted poses. I feel it would be very difficult to on Stradbroke Island and on the South justify a provision such as that if large Coast, and I do not think it is difficult to quantities of minerals were contained in the realise that posterity will condemn us very areas. When we are granting leases over str~mgly, as ~he hon. member for Salisbury large areas we will take cognisance of the pomted out, If the necessary precautions are approaches made by any local authority if it not taken now to protect the beach areas desires to reserve portion of the land for the and the countryside from the great scourge future use of the general public. Frequently of erosion. it has been desired to use land for public purposes only because of the action of the Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday mining companies in developing a particular Minister for Mines and Main Roads) area. (8.34 p.m.), in reply: I thank hon. members Mr. Hanloo: It would seem pertinent that on both sides of the Chamber for their the local authority should not have to keep ready acceptance of the proposed amend coming back and spending money on claims ments and their contributions to the debate. in the same area. The hon. member for Salisbury dwelt at Mr. CAMM: We reserve land over which considerable length on the rehabilitation and mining leases will not be granted, and if an restoration provisions that we impose on approach is made to the Department of mining companies. I can assure him that the Mines by a local authority before a mining companies honour their obligations, more lease is contemplated and it wants the depart especially when it applies to the mining of ment to exclude a certain area from the lease, our sands. The coloured sands to which we give consideration to the request. One he referred were not deposited there by the instance of this is our national parks. No-one ocean. They contain no mineral sands what can obtain a mineral lease over a national ever, and consequently they will never be park unless it has been first approved by the mined. Forestry Department, which administers national parks. Mr. Sberrington: I did not say that. I said they had been built up over the years. I The hon. member for Ipswich East was did not say "by the sea". rather concerned that our royalty payments were somewhat low. Naturally, as a Govern Mr. CAMM: They are purely from the land ment we would like to have our royalty pay itself. However, we do advertise leases. ments as high as possible, but we think we It is unfortunate, as the hon. member said, maintain a fairly high rate of royalty pay that that lease advertisement appeared during ments. I remind him that the royalties on the holiday period. However, it is rather coal have been doubled since this Govern ironical that those sands could not be visited ment came to office. from the land until the mining company came Mr. Donald: They are too !.ow. 2480 Mining Acts Amendment Bill [ASSEMBLY] Questions Mr. CAMM: I agree that they are too low, Mines helps the individual prospector con but this Government has doubled the royalty siderably by subsidy and also by allowance, payments on coal when production exceeds if it considers that his prospecting is worth a certain tonnage. Many of our royalties are while. We also subsidise drilling or the not based on tonnage; they are calculated on sinking of shafts by small companies. The the profits of the company concerned. We department's diamond drills are operating carefully examine the books of the various continuously on various mineral fields in mining companies, and the royalty payments Queensland. This is a service that the are assessed on the company's profits. Department of Mines provides for the benefit of the mining industry as a whole. We I assure the hon. member for Mt. Coot-tha drill in the vicinity of 100,000 ft. a year in that the mining companies desire some coal-mining areas in Queensland. measure of security when undertaking the Mr. Hanson: You have for many years. expenditure of large sums of money. Con sequently a company cannot be encouraged Mr. CAMM: Yes. For many years this to take up a mining tenement on which it service has been available to individual will have to spend a considerable amount miners and prospectors. The hire of com of money unless we are prepared to give it pressors, quick winches, pumps and motors some measure of security by way of a is only one of the services the department fairly long tenure. Mining leases are provides for the smaller prospector and the generally of 21 years' duration, some of smaller miner. them having a right-of-renewal provision. The hon. member for Sandgate dealt with I thank the hon. member for Port Curtis the rehabilitation and regeneration of our for his remarks about the officials of the mineral !eases. I can assure him that we Department of Mines. I assure him that I keep that point foremost in our minds when and all other members of the Government we grant these leases; that is one of the are proud of the officers employed in that conditions we impose. department and the work they are doing. Over the last 10 years the work in the I reserve further comment until the second department has snowballed. Fortunately reading of the Bill. we have very efficient officers who have Motion (Mr. Camm) agreed to. been able to cope with the new developments associated with mining during the period that Resolution reported. this Government has been in power. FIRST READING I was very interested to hear the hon. mem ber speak about the beneficiating of the Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. ilmenite. As he is aware, a large company is Camm, read a first time. proposing to construct a plant in his own electorate in the Gladstone area, where the ilmenite will be beneficiated and the resulting SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT mineral will be used for many of the pur Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough poses for which rutile is now used. Much Premier): I move- has been said on many occasions about the "That the House, at its rising, do adjourn wonderful metal titanium, which is recovered until Tuesday, 7 March, 1967." from our mineral sands. This metal is used in the rockets that go into outer space. If Motion agreed to. ever a man is landed on the moon we will The House adjourned at 8.47 p.m. be able to truly say that a good deal of the metal in the vehicle that took him there came from Queensland. I should say that there is a high Queensland content in the metals that have already landed on the moon. It was very refreshing to me to hear the hon. member urge the payment of sub sidies to large mining companies to assist them in their prospecting. Mr. Hanson: Exploration companies. Mr. CAMM: Yes, to assist them in their prospecting. It was very refreshing indeed to hear the hon. member suggest that. As he is aware, a subsidy is paid by the Federal Government for oil exploration in this State. It was very refreshing to hear the hon. member urge the payment of sub sidies to large companies for the explora tion or prospecting for other minerals. I think he is aware that the Department of