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Vol. 585 Wednesday, No. 3 12 May 2004 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 12 May 2004. Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 533 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 542 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 557 Order of Business ……………………………… 558 Health (Amendment) Bill 2004: Second Stage (resumed) …………………………… 566 Referral to Select Committee ………………………… 586 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Priority Questions …………………………… 586 Other Questions …………………………… 598 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 610 Estimates for Public Services: Message from Select Committee ……………… 610 Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003: Order for Report Stage …………………………… 611 Report and Final Stages …………………………… 611 Private Members’ Business Management of Public Funds: Motion (resumed) ………………… 662 Message from Seanad ……………………………… 697 Adjournment Debate Schools Building Projects …………………………… 700 Child Care Services …………………………… 704 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 709 533 534 DA´ IL E´ IREANN the past two years or so. At the time of the Good Friday Agreement the cases were still pending ———— and people had not been charged. However, we said that the McCabe killers would not be De´ Ce´adaoin, 12 Bealtaine 2004. included under the Good Friday Agreement, Wednesday, 12 May 2004. neither are they. That was over six years ago and we did not release the prisoners under that ———— scheme. Had that been the case, they would have been set free in 1998 or 1999, as all the prisoners Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar in Northern Ireland were. That question answers 10.30 a.m. itself, they were not released. What was being considered was the context in Paidir. which the possible release of the killers of Jerry Prayer. McCabe might arise. It was to happen only in the context of acts of total completion, as I have said — that term means arms decommissioning and an Leaders’ Questions. end to all forms of paramilitarism by the IRA, Mr. Kenny: Perhaps I might revisit a matter which means that the IRA will have moved discussed yesterday. It is perfectly clear that, definitively away from violence to the end when the Irish people voted on the Good Friday position. I made that clear in the debate in the Agreement, they did so on the clear House last year when I said that there was no understanding that the killers of Detective Garda doubt about the object or purpose of the IRA Jerry McCabe would not be covered by the early and Sinn Fe´in statements on 21 October. We had release provisions and that they would never consistently made it clear that a complete benefit from them, instead serving their time. transition to a peaceful and democratic society in Assurances were given to the nation and the Da´il Northern Ireland was required. I do not want by the Taoiseach, the Ta´naiste and the Minister Deputy Kenny to say that it was the mere matter for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that those of a single act of arms decommissioning. That was killers could never benefit from the early release not the arrangement last year, and no one was provisions. Clear and unambiguous statements trying to achieve that. It was only one part of the were made by all three. total process of what we were trying to negotiate Over last weekend and yesterday, the in April and October. We are still trying to Taoiseach and Ministers clearly shifted their negotiate that and have not been successful. position. The Taoiseach now talks about early The events of 21 October did not unfold in a release being considered if the achievement of way that instilled the confidence necessary to acts of completion were assured. The Ta´naiste complete the sequence of events that would have says that early release would be considered only given completeness to the process under after the IRA had been disbanded and all negotiation all last year. Yesterday I said that it paramilitary and criminal activities stopped. involved a complex set of undertakings with a However, the leader of Sinn Fe´in, Mr. Gerry range of elements which would emerge as a Adams, who was party to those discussions, says sequence of agreed statements and supporting that the killers involved, who pumped 12 bullets actions, some by the Government, some by Sinn into the body of Detective Garda McCabe, would Fe´in, some by the IRA and some by Unionists. be walking the streets if the October deal had Everyone was playing his or her part in a been agreed, with a single act of sequence and process negotiated over the year. decommissioning. That has caused revulsion Our goal was clear, a way forward on all among the ordinary, decent citizens of this land. outstanding issues, bringing closure to those once My question to the Taoiseach on behalf of the and for all. It remains the agenda of the people is whom are we to believe. It should be Government to try to achieve that, if we ever can. much easier to believe the Taoiseach of our However, we did not achieve that position. country rather than have to find out what has Deputy Kenny asked whether, having achieved been going on behind our backs from the leader all that, we would have honoured our of the Sinn Fe´in Party, which has known links to commitments. Yes, we would have done so. If all the Provisional IRA. Was that deal on the table those points had been agreed, we would have last October and if those events had come to a honoured our commitments. However, that did satisfactory conclusion, would those killers now not happen. I emphasise that we are not talking be walking our streets? about one point but about a whole sequence and range of issues. The Taoiseach: I will revisit just some of the points I made yesterday. I said that what we Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach has caused further wanted and needed to achieve was still the same, confusion because he has not answered the the complete ending of IRA paramilitarism, question. When he says the IRA has moved to decommissioning, the ending of the IRA, acts of end position, that is different from what he said absolute completion and the end of the conflict. in recent days to the effect that it was a long way Those are the issues we have been negotiating for from that. He has not said, in honouring his 535 Leaders’ 12 May 2004. Questions 536 [Mr. Kenny.] The Taoiseach: The Government has been commitments, whether or not this was moved on consistent in what it has been seeking to do. We to the table last October. I would remind the have set out in paragraph 13 of the Joint House of what the Ta´naiste said. She said in Declaration that we have been trying to bring Volume 466 of the Official Report on 11 June paramilitarism to an end. We have stated that six 1996: years after the agreement transmission to There is no room for ambivalence in relation exclusively democratic means must be completed to such issues. Anyone who falls short of and that ongoing paramilitary activity, sectarian condemning what happened on Friday last, the violence and criminality masquerading as a murder of a member of the Garda Sı´ocha´na political cause are all corrosive of the trust and and the serious injury of another, cannot call confidence necessary to sustain a durable themselves democrats. One is either for or political process. against violence. There is no grey area in between. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Why does the Taoiseach not answer the question? Last weekend the leader of Sinn Fe´in told us he felt cheated. However, the people who can rightly The Taoiseach: That is what the Government feel cheated are Anne McCabe, her family and has stated. We have said that paramilitarism and the late Garda McCabe’s relatives, friends and sectarian violence must be brought to an end, colleagues. I accept the Ta´naiste was absolutely regardless of from which community they come. clear in her comment. She said yesterday that the In this instance we were talking about the release of these killers would only take place after Provisional IRA. We said we needed to see an all had been laid down, guns decommissioned, an immediate, full, permanent cessation of all end to racketeering, abductions and knee- military activity, including military attacks, cappings — matters which the Minister for Jus- training, targeting, intelligence gathering, the tice, Equality and Law Reform has lectured us acquisition or development of arms or weapons, about in terms of the IRA and what it does. other preparations for terrorist campaigns, The Taoiseach knows that the IRA and Sinn punishment beatings, attacks and involvement in Fe´in are two sides of the one coin. When he says, riots etc. Moreover, the practice of exiling must “We would have honoured our commitment,” be brought to an end and exiles must be free to does that mean that he moved the release of the McCabe killers on to the table for last October return safely home. Sectarian attacks and and that in the words of Mr. Gerry Adams, “They intimidation directed at vulnerable communities would now be walking the streets”? In other must cease. We have stated in reply to a fair words, would the IRA have gone away? Does the question from Deputy Kenny that all this must be Taoiseach believe it would have gone away last signed up to totally and completely—— October if this sequence of events had occurred? Am I to believe the words of my Taoiseach, the Mr.