Vol. 758 Tuesday No. 79 6 January 2015

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Retirement of a Member: Lord Jenkin of Roding...... 243 Questions Children’s Privacy ...... 243 Health: Diesel Engine Pollution...... 245 Chilcot Inquiry ...... 248 UN Security Council: Israel and Palestine...... 250 Social Action, Responsibility and Heroism Bill Third Reading ...... 252 National Insurance Contributions Bill Report...... 262 House of Lords Motion to Take Note...... 270 Written Statements...... WS 47 Written Answers ...... WA 103

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ongoing legal matter and I am sure that she will House of Lords understand if I do not comment on the specifics. But when it comes to the matter at hand, which is that of Tuesday, 6 January 2015. self-regulation, it is important to note that the Editors’ Code of Practice actually stipulates that where a child 2.30 pm is under the age of 16, consent should be sought. That is something which should happen under the code and Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of St Albans. under self-regulation. Where that does not happen, there is then redress through the civil courts. Retirement of a Member: Lord Jenkin of Roding Baroness Benjamin (LD): My Lords, society’s clear Announcement moral duty is to protect all children. Section 8 of the Ofcom Broadcasting Code does so and is very specific 2.35 pm about the privacy and protection of children. All The Lord Speaker (Baroness D’Souza): My Lords, I broadcasters apply these rules responsibly. What can should like to notify the House of the retirement, with be done to ensure that similar rules which refer more effect from today, of the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin of specifically to this type of photography are included in Roding, pursuant to Section 1 of the House of Lords the print media code of practice and adhered to in Reform Act 2014. On behalf of the House, I should order to protect children from unwanted exposure and like to thank the noble Lord for his much-valued potential harm? service to the House. Lord Bates: I am grateful to my noble friend for Children’s Privacy that question. Section 1.8 of the Ofcom code refers to Question the protection of children and that is mirrored by the code of ethics under the self-regulatory system. What 2.36 pm we need to do is ensure that that is working and that Asked by Baroness Smith of Basildon people are protected. At the same time, there is a need for a balance on the one hand between large crowd scenes To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment in which children might be involved, or the premiere they have made of the effects on children of the of a movie where a child star might be putting themselves publication of photographs of them without agreement in the public domain, and situations where privacy is or permission; and what consideration they have involved. A fine balance needs to be achieved. given to the aims of Protect: the Campaign for Children’s Privacy. Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl): My Lords, does the noble Lord Bates (Con): My Lords, I understand the Lord accept that those who have disabilities are still importance of ensuring that children’s privacy is respected having huge difficulties in coming forward and reporting and that safeguards are in place to protect it. The child sexual abuse or the need for protection? Will he Government have introduced the new system of assure the House that in all aspects of dealing with independent press self-regulation and there are remedies this matter—whether with regard to the media, the available under civil law. The Government are committed social justice arena or the law—he will take on board to tackling the production and distribution of indecent the specific needs of those with disabilities, in particular images of children and criminal offences are available those with autism? in such cases. Lord Bates: This applies to everybody equally, and Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab): My Lords, we those with disabilities should come forward. Those have to be clear about what Protect: the Campaign for guilty of abuse should be prosecuted. There is a straight Children’s Privacy is asking the Government to consider. line between what we are talking about, which may be Surely it is entirely reasonable and responsible that general intrusion such as the publication of a photograph, when identifying an individual child in a published and, of course, the publication of sexualised images of photograph, there should either be consent or good children, on which the full weight of the criminal law reason. If not, the image should be pixilated or blurred. needs rightly to come down. The Minister referred to self-regulation. If that is working, why did Hannah Weller have to go to court and why did the judge say that the law needs clarification? Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab): My Lords, surely Will the Minister agree to meet Protect in order to the examples that the Minister gave are very different. understand parents’ concerns and consider how children’s If there is a general crowd scene, and an individual privacy can be protected? child is not identified by name, that is distinct from circumstances where a child is identifiable and where Lord Bates: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness consent has not been given. Under what circumstances for her question. I should say first that my right does the public interest require that a child’s face should honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister has met not be pixilated? Is there any case at all, in terms of campaigners and I would be very happy to facilitate journalistic integrity or the freedom of investigative further meetings if that would be helpful. In respect of journalism, that requires an identifiable child’s face to the particular case to which she referred, this is an be published without consent? 245 Children’s Privacy[LORDS] Health: Diesel Engine Pollution 246

Lord Bates: The noble Lord puts his finger absolutely The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department on the point, which is the difference between images— for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord De Mauley) which is the context of the campaign, as I understand (Con): My Lords, the plan to reduce emissions and it—and the identification attached to an image of a pollution is set out in the Sustainable, Resilient, Healthy child, which requires consent. That is the area of People & Places strategy. This encourages walking and balance and the area of debate that we are seeking to cycling, which have direct health benefits, and reduces square in this. emissions of air pollutants and carbon dioxide. Key to reducing the health impacts of air pollution is reducing The Countess of Mar (CB): My Lords, does self- emissions at source. We are investing billions of pounds regulation apply to internet service providers? in measures to reduce air pollution, including incentivising low-emission vehicles and sustainable transport. Lord Bates: The We Protect campaign, which the Prime Minister launched and which is chaired very Lord Berkeley (Lab): I am grateful to the Minister effectively by my noble friend Lady Shields, is about for that Answer, but is he aware—I am sure he is—that, self-regulation. It announced a major breakthrough according to Clean Air in London, 55,000 premature just before Christmas about internet service providers deaths a year nationally are attributable to NOx and seeking to remove child abuse images from the internet, fine particulates? Already, monitors in Oxford Street identify abusers and ensure that they are brought to and other parts of London have shown that NOx justice. hourly limit values have been breached for the whole of 2015, which is not bad in six days. Why then is Baroness Lawrence of Clarendon (Lab): My Lords, Defra consulting on proposals to remove the obligation given that three-quarters of the public believe that the for local authorities to monitor such pollution? In the media should protect children by pixilating or blurring absence of that evidence, are the Government trying their faces, does the Minister agree that more can and to avoid blame for denying those 55,000 people their should be done to protect children’s privacy? 10 extra years of life, which they could achieve if the policies were implemented? Lord Bates: I acknowledge the work which the noble Baroness has done and her personal experience Lord De Mauley: It is helpful that the noble Lord in this area, which I am aware of and which, obviously, has asked that question. It gives me the opportunity to we all understand. In the case of the protection of clarify that nothing in the consultation could lead to privacy, everybody—certainly every parent—understands the closure of monitoring stations. It is essentially the lengths to which we are all prepared to go to about streamlining and simplifying the reporting system protect our children and our children’s safety. The to reduce unnecessary burdens and speed up delivery question is about weighing the balance between that of air quality action plan measures to tackle pollutants right to privacy and the right and privilege of free such as NO2 and particulate materials. We are not speech and freedom of the press, which is an underscored proposing a reduction of monitoring by local authorities, part of our democracy. but decisions on local air quality monitoring are for them, so ultimately it is up to them to decide what level Lord Harris of Haringey: My Lords, the Minister of monitoring they wish to undertake. has said that free speech is somehow undermined by publishing an identifiable child’s image. How is it Lord Brabazon of Tara (Con): Does my noble friend undermined? recall that until very recently people were encouraged to buy diesel cars because they produced less CO2 and Lord Bates: I did not say that it was undermined. had very attractive rates of vehicle excise duty? What With respect to the noble Lord, what I actually said does my noble friend say to those people now? was that there is a balance, in a free society, between being able to produce and publish images and identifying Lord De Mauley: My Lords, my noble friend makes those images—in other words between the human an important point, of course. The point is that the rights aspects of Article 6, which deal with protection EU procedures for testing diesel engines did not deliver and privacy, and of Article 8, which deals with free the health outcomes that were sought. That is why the speech. The courts deal with that and the self-regulators Commission is looking at this again. deal with that. We can deal with it in a common-sense way without the need to criminalise everyone who Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab): My Lords, the produces an image of a child. Minister says that the proposal to reduce the reporting requirements of local authorities will not lead to a Health: Diesel Engine Pollution reduction in the number of reporting stations. But he Question will have seen analysis that suggests that 600 of them will be closed down because there will less of a requirement 2.44 pm on local authorities to report the provisions. Why will the Government not look again at this? Asked by Lord Berkeley To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans Lord De Mauley: My Lords, to go into a little more the National Health Service has to reduce the number detail, the review is aiming, as I said, to reduce of premature deaths caused by the combined impact administrative burdens to free up local authorities’ of nitrogen dioxide and fine particles emitted by time and resources so that they can focus on taking diesel engines. action to address air quality. The consultation was 247 Health: Diesel Engine Pollution[6 JANUARY 2015] Chilcot Inquiry 248 split into two parts. Part 1 proposes the removal of the Lord De Mauley: I cannot, my Lords. I am not requirement in regulations for local authorities to aware that it is specifically to do with the source report on specific pollutants that have been well within country of the diesel, but I will look into it. limits for many years. Indeed, monitoring of these will be maintained at national level. Chilcot Inquiry Lord Bradshaw (LD): My Lords, I wonder whether Question the Minister has considered the use of the petrol and 2.51 pm diesel engines which drive the refrigeration units that pervade our high streets, airports and other congested Asked by Lord Dykes places. Those refrigeration units use fuel but it is not To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they passed through any sort of cleaning-up device to get intend to suggest that the report of the Chilcot out the particulates and the NOx. I believe it is a very inquiry is published before the start of the pre-election fruitful field for examination by the Government. purdah. Lord De Mauley: My Lords, as my noble friend will Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): My Lords, as I said know, we have a number of very extensive programmes to the noble Lord in my Answer of 3 November, the to reduce the emissions of pollutants from a variety of inquiry is completely independent of government. It is units, particularly transport. However, I will look into up to Sir John Chilcot to decide when to submit the what he says and see if there is anything there that we inquiry’s report to the Prime Minister. I continue to can do. hope that its conclusions will shortly be available for all to see. The Lord Bishop of St Albans: My Lords, with 4.3 million adults and 1.1 million children suffering Lord Dykes (LD): I am certainly not blaming my from the effects of asthma-related conditions, does the noble friend, and least of all Sir John Chilcot, but is Minister agree that we need to look closely at the not this continuing delay an utter and total disgrace World Health Organization’s recent news that an increasing after so much time has elapsed? Is my noble friend number of British cities are now breaching the safe air aware that more and more people think that it is some pollution levels? In particular, does he agree that we kind of attempt to prolong the agony for Mr Blair might encourage other cities to follow the example of facing possible war crimes charges? London, which is now developing a low emission zone for both vehicles and industry, as a way of trying to Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, we all regret mitigate some of the huge cost of around £1 billion a the delay, but I wish to stress that this is not unusual for year of treating asthma conditions in this country? inquiries of this sort. I know that we were all looking at the al-Sweady inquiry as part of our Christmas Lord De Mauley: I agree with the right reverend reading. That took five years to report on two battles Prelate. He will be pleased to know that we are working in one afternoon and cost £24 million. The Baha with local authorities on the feasibility and design of Mousa inquiry, looking into the death in UK custody low emission zones and we have provided guidance of one Iraqi civilian in September 2003, took three such as on which vehicles should be covered and what years and cost £13.5 million. This inquiry has been emissions standards they should meet. The right reverend looking at nine years of British policy and operations Prelate might like to know that, in addition to London, within Iraq. It is not entirely unexpected, therefore, Oxford, Norwich and Brighton have already introduced that it has turned out to take a long time. low emission zones and other cities are considering them. Lord Hurd of Westwell (Con): Does the Minister Lord Kinnock (Lab): My Lords, the Government agree that my noble friend’s point is at the heart of this are absolutely right to spend—in the Minister’s words— whole matter? This has dragged on beyond the questions “billions” on seeking to reduce emissions. Will he of mere negligence and forgivable delay; it is becoming therefore contact the Mayor of London to tell him a scandal. This is not a matter of trivial importance; it how wrong-headed is his policy of reducing or removing is something to which a large number of people in this the concessions on the congestion charge for very low country look anxiously for the truth. Is it not time that emission vehicles, which will be brought into effect in the Government exerted themselves to make sure that December 2016? This is entirely the wrong approach, that reasonable demand is met? especially when so many people in the metropolis and Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, we all regret elsewhere have bought low emission vehicles specifically the amount of time that has been taken. I think in to conform with the policy of this and previous retrospect, as an outside observer, that it might have Governments. been a good thing to have recruited a larger staff at the Lord De Mauley: My Lords, I understand the noble beginning of the inquiry, because the sheer volume of Lord’s point. He will understand that matters such as the documentation that the inquiry found itself looking this are for London and the mayor to decide, but I will through was much greater than had originally been of course do as he asks. anticipated. It is, however, an independent inquiry. The Government will receive the report. The one Lord Howell of Guildford (Con): My Lords, is this decision that the Government will then take is when it issue connected with the quality of imported diesel will be published. It is up to the chairman of an and, if so, could the Minister say how much of that independent inquiry to decide when and how it completes imported diesel comes from Russia? its report. 249 Chilcot Inquiry[LORDS] Israel and Palestine 250

Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab): My Lords, in setting Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab): My Lords, will the up the inquiry, Mr Gordon Brown made a sweeping Minister join with me in asking people to stop calling statement that all British documents, save those involving this intervention “illegal”? It has never been declared the most sensitive national security, would be made illegal by any court, national or international, and, since available. Has that promise been breached, in either it was the first intervention ever to be approved by a spirit or form? The House also needs a clear, unequivocal vote in the House of Commons, it has more authority statement as to who is responsible for apparently than any other intervention. kicking publication into touch until after the election. Is it former or present Prime Ministers, Cabinet Secretaries Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, I was not or Sir John Chilcot and his committee? aware that I, certainly, had ever called it “illegal”. Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, there were two questions there. The Government made all documentation Lord Cormack (Con): My Lords, after all the excitement available to the committee at the outset. The further and excitable nature of yesterday’s proceedings, would question, which has taken rather longer than anticipated, not pre-election purdah be rather a good idea? was the subsequent discussion as to how many of those documents should be published. After all, some of Lord Wallace of Saltaire: Pre-election purdah does them are highly classified and deeply sensitive about not formally start until late March, but the Government British foreign policy and relations with other major have committed that if the report is not available for Governments and allies. I understand that that process publication by the end of February, it will be held is also now complete. When the report comes out, it back until after the election. will contain more than 1 million words and will publish substantial documentation from more than 200 Cabinet meetings. That is all agreed and under way. In terms of UN Security Council: Israel and Palestine the publication, the Prime Minister has not intervened Question at any point—and nor, as I understand it, did his predecessor. It is up to the inquiry and its chairman to 2.59 pm decide when the process is complete. As we know, Asked by Baroness Tonge Maxwellisation is part of the process of completing the report. When that is complete, it will be published. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they will take to support a two-state solution for Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab): My Lords, I join Israel and Palestine, following the rejection of the those who wish for an early publication of the Chilcot Jordanian resolution at the United Nations Security report, if for no other reason than to put a stop to the Council on 30 December. conspiracy theories multiplying. The ridiculous comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, are a disgrace to this House and a disgrace to him. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): My Lords, Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, I also wish for we remain convinced that the best way to secure a an early publication, but we are waiting for the inquiry two-state solution is through negotiations underpinned to submit the report to the Government. The Government by clear international parameters. Events of recent have taken the decision, as my honourable friend Rob days have only made that goal more difficult. We are Wilson and I have both said on previous occasions, therefore urging the parties to avoid steps which damage that if it is submitted after the end of February it the prospects for resuming meaningful talks. In the would not be appropriate to publish it until after the coming weeks, we will continue to work closely with election because part of the previous Government’s international partners to promote an environment commitment was that there would be time allowed for conducive to peace. substantial consultation on and debate of this enormous report when it is published. Baroness Tonge (Ind LD): I am grateful to the Minister for that reply—no surprises there, then. I Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD): My Lords, hope that the Minister agrees that we have a historic when the inquiry was announced, some of us took the responsibility for Palestine. Is she aware that a growing position that it should be a two-part inquiry: one part number of prominent Israeli academics and politicians into the conduct of the war and one part into the support the Israeli peace initiative, which is based on events that led up to the war. Would my noble friend the Arab peace initiative of 2002? Does she agree that agree that that would have been the better way to deal we should now take the lead with our European with it? In other words, we should have produced a partners in imposing a time limit for the creation of report on what led up to the war itself and left in the the two states based on that plan, with sanctions long grass the business of the conduct of the war. In applied to both parties if they fail to achieve a solution? that event, we would certainly by now have had the answers and the truth that the British people seek. Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, my noble Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, that might friend points to her request that deadlines should be have been wise, but I am afraid that we are being wise imposed. In the past, deadlines have never proved to a little after the event. We are well under way with this be the opening of a door to a lasting peace. Clearly, inquiry. Indeed, I hope that we are very close to the she is right to draw attention to the fact that there are finishing line. many, both in Israel and in the Arab states, who are 251 Israel and Palestine[6 JANUARY 2015] Responsibility and Heroism Bill 252 working hard to achieve a peaceful outcome. The Council should be asked to look at these matters in Arab League and the Arab states have a key role in the detail over a sensible time period. Regretfully, the United peace process, and the Arab peace initiative, through Nations Security Council members were not given the its offer of a normalisation of relations between Arab opportunity to have the normal discussion and come states and Israel in the event of a comprehensive peace to conclusions, so there was not a full discussion on agreement, is an important signal of the benefits that each of the propositions within it. The imposition of a peace would bring to the entire region. It needs to be a deadline for Israeli withdrawal from the Occupied comprehensive peace agreement. The advantage of a Territories at the end of 2017 stood there without any resolution in the United Nations Security Council, if of the other issues which need to be resolved. Because we are able to achieve it, is that one could achieve a it was not possible to have a full discussion about all peace that is not only signed but delivered and endures. the issues in it we were, regretfully, not able to support that resolution. What we support is the fact that we Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab): My Lords, apart should now go forward with the United Nations Security from continued drift and deterioration, does the noble Council, have a full and meaningful discussion about Baroness agree that the only real alternative to a it and secure a resolution to which all members can two-state solution is a one-state solution which would, not only sign up but then keep. for demographic reasons, mean the end of democratic Israel? In the light of the fact that Secretary Kerry has Lord Gold (Con): My Lords, does my noble friend tried very hard but failed, does she see any prospect of the Minister agree that progress towards a two-state any initiative from the United States over the next few solution has been set back by those who have been years? Otherwise, the prospects appear very bleak seeking immediate recognition of Palestine as a state indeed. while it is controlled by a terrorist organisation with links to ISIL, and whose aim is the total destruction of Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, I hesitate Israel, and that progress can only really be achieved to disagree with the noble Lord’s tenet that Mr Kerry through negotiation with those genuinely wanting a has now failed, but I do disagree with that reading of peaceful solution, supported by the international recent events. I believe that Mr Kerry is determined to community? continue to take the peace process further. It was regrettable that the United Nations Security Council was unable to achieve a resolution. We continue to Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, I am of believe that negotiations for a two-state solution are course aware that there are those on both sides of the the only way forward. We are aware that both Netanyahu argument who find it very difficult indeed to move this and Abbas are ready to continue negotiations. It is matter forward but I am advised, and have every belief important that that process is allowed to continue and it is right, that President Abbas is a man of peace and that we now have a period where people take stock of wishes to continue negotiations. Prime Minister Netanyahu what has happened over the past few days and quietly has made it clear that he wishes to continue in those consider how we may constructively move that peace negotiations. It is clearly going to take still more work process further. at the United Nations before we can reach a resolution to which all can subscribe, but against the bleak Baroness Morris of Bolton (Con): My Lords, the background that my noble friend paints I would paint Israeli President has said that he believes that it is the background of key players who want to achieve completely wrong for the Israeli Government to withhold the right result—peace for that region. taxes which are due to the Palestinian Authority. Can my noble friend tell us what pressure the United Kingdom Government are putting on the Israeli Government to Social Action, Responsibility and Heroism pay that money, which is due to the Palestinians? Bill Third Reading Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, we are indeed deeply concerned by the decision made by 3.07 pm Israel to freeze the transfer of $130 million of tax revenue. It is against international law and it certainly contravenes the 1994 Paris protocol signed between Clause 3: Responsibility Israel and the PLO. I can tell my noble friend that we press Israel to reverse that decision. Amendment 1 Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab): My Lords, can the Moved by Lord Pannick Minister outline whether any aspect of the UN Security Council resolution which was rejected last week was 1: Clause 3, page 1, line 10, leave out “activity” and insert “act inconsistent with UK policy, international law or previous or omission” UN resolutions? Lord Pannick (CB): My Lords, Amendment 1 is in Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, I am sure my name and that of the noble and learned Lord, that the noble Baroness will have read the full document, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood. It raises a which I would hesitate to do here because it is three drafting point, which will encourage even more noble pages long. The document is three pages long because Lords to leave, but it is a drafting point of some it is a complex matter and the United Nations Security significance on this curious Bill. 253 Responsibility and Heroism Bill[LORDS] Responsibility and Heroism Bill 254

[LORD PANNICK] So far, so good—in all events, it is too late now, at The purpose of Clause 3, as the Minister explained Third Reading, to question the desirability of making on Report, is to make clear that the court, in considering this sort of change without taking any soundings a claim of negligence, must take account of the context from, for example, the Law Commission, a point that in which the alleged negligence occurred. Of course, was stressed strongly on Report by my noble and that is already what courts do—but we have had that learned friend Lord Walker of Gestingthorpe—but debate. On Report, concern was expressed that the the real difficulty with the present wording was crystallised word “activity” in Clause 3 is too broad. The reason on Report in the exchange between the Minister and for the concern is very simple. We all agree, including the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith. The the Minister, that it is not the intention of this clause noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has already made some that, when a doctor is sued for negligence for cutting reference to that exchange, but perhaps it is worth off my right leg because I had a pain in my left leg, it setting it out at a little greater length. The noble and should then be open to the doctor to plead in his or learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, raised the question of her defence, “I have been treating legs for 40 years and what would arise if, say, someone sued their accountant have never before made such a mistake”. We all agree for negligence with regard to the completion of their that the doctor should not be able to rely on such a tax return, and he suggested that under Clause 3 in its matter in the defence. What the claimant is concerned present form the accountant could say: about, and what the court must address, is what happened “‘The activity that I carry out is doing people’s tax returns and on the specific occasion when that claimant was treated. advising them on that; I have done it for the last 10 years and I am The Minister confirmed that that is indeed the now going to tell the court about my record’. How do the words Government’s intention. He said on Report on in the clause prevent that from being done?”. 15 December, in answering questions about a hypo- The Minister responded by saying that, thetically negligent accountant, that, “the Bill is concerned with the activity in question, so it would be “it would be the particular tax return or the particular piece of the particular tax return or the particular piece of advice, because advice”, that is what the Bill says”. which mattered. He added: The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, in turn “It would be no good for them to say, ‘In the 99 other years in said: which I did this particular act”— “It would not be this tax return, surely, but the activity of accountants have a very long professional career— advising on tax returns generally”. “I did a good job’”.—[Official Report, 15/12/14; col. 37-38.] The Minister’s response—this is the final quotation So we all agree that that should remain the law. The from that exchange—was: problem is that the word “activity” in the first line of “I respectfully disagree with that interpretation because it is Clause 3 suggests the contrary. It requires the court to concerned with the activity in question, ‘in the course of which have regard to “carrying out the activity” in the course the alleged negligence or breach of statutory duty occurred’. It of which the alleged negligence occurred. However, the would not therefore, deal”— word “activity” might suggest the general practice of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has cited this— medicine, accountancy or whatever function is performed “with the 99 years of accurate tax returns but would focus on the by the defendant. Since we all wish that the court should particular tax return that is the subject of the claim in negligence. continue to focus on the treatment of this claimant on That is the correct interpretation of the particular clause”.—[Official the occasion when the alleged negligence occurred, I Report, 15/12/14; col. 37.] suggest that the words “act or omission” are much more appropriate than the broader term “activity”. Amendment 2, in the name of the Minister, would 3.15 pm replace “generally” with “predominantly”. That is an There we have it. At present, all one can say is that improvement to Clause 3 that I support, but it does the wording is at best ambiguous. It surely seems not address the problem that I am concerned about, sensible to narrow down the word “activity”. Indeed, caused by the inappropriate use of the word “activity”. the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead I beg to move. said: “Using the phrase, ‘activity in question’ is far too general. If it Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood (CB): My is to mean anything, it has to be precisely focused on what Lords, I have added my name to this amendment Clause 1 is talking about”. because, speaking as a judge of 28 years’ experience, it Clause 1, of course, sets the context for all three of the concerns me that judges in future are going to have to substantive clauses and makes plain that they are to deal with the Bill in its present form. It would be so apply when the court is, much easier and less muddling for them if we managed “determining the steps that the person”— to make the amendment for which we are contending I interpolate that “the person” is the defendant— today. Everyone agrees that Clause 3 is the only part of “was required to take to meet a standard of care”.—[Official the Bill that is intended to effect any change whatever Report, 15/12/14; col. 38.] to the law. Its essential purpose was set out by the It can be put very simply.The phrase “act or omission”, Minister at some length on Report, but really one can which our proposed amendment would substitute for simply cite this passage: the word “activity” in Clause 3, would surely harmonise “If a defendant was really predominantly doing all that he or she could reasonably be expected to do to look after the safety of altogether more easily with the language of Clause 1 and an individual, why should there not be some reflection of that fact focus the court’s attention more narrowly on determining in the determination of liability?”.—[Official Report, 15/12/14; the steps that the defendant should have taken to col. 36.] avoid a finding of liability. It is a small amendment, 255 Responsibility and Heroism Bill[6 JANUARY 2015] Responsibility and Heroism Bill 256 but a sensible one, which would give effect to what the and a clarity which may be clouded by those additional Minister himself suggests is the proposed limited scope words. Generally, the shorter the better, so my instinct of this provision and would help courts in future. is to resist this proposal. However, I await his further advice. Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB): My Lords, I have forborne Before I conclude I turn briefly to government to say a word on this Bill until this moment. I rise only Amendment 2. I am grateful to my noble friend for to say that the phrase “act or omission” is extremely having taken away the amendment I proposed on well known in the law and is one which judges—I, too, Report on 15 December and for having responded so sat as a judge for many years—understand perfectly positively. The amendment was originally put down in well. The word “activity” is ambiguous. The noble the name of my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral, Lord, Lord Pannick, and Simon—I am sorry, I should whom I am glad to see in his place this afternoon and have said “my noble and learned friend Lord Brown of who unfortunately was not able to be present on Eaton-under-Heywood”; the trouble is I know him so Report. He will be able to speak far more eloquently well—have made absolutely clear the ambiguity of about this than me. I close by repeating my thanks to this word. I cannot understand why the Government my noble friend on the Front Bench. The change that do not just take the perfectly sensible phrase “act or he is proposing this afternoon will improve the balance omission”. by encouraging people to get involved but without Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts (Con): My support encouraging them to do so in a thoughtless or irresponsible for this Bill has been very well documented. way. Notwithstanding the attacks on it from noble Lords and, especially, noble and learned Lords, I continue, Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con): My Lords, I declare my albeit as a non-lawyer, to believe it will play a useful interest as a partner in the global commercial law firm role in encouraging, or at least not discouraging, DAC Beachcroft and refer to my other interests in the individuals getting involved and participating and in register. consequence strengthening our civil society and so However, for the purpose of this short debate I add improving social cohesion. I fully admit there are that I have just this morning returned from an expedition aspects of the Bill which overlap with the provisions of to Antarctica, where I must say my boundaries were the Compensation Act and that the provisions of the severely tested. I found myself in the company of Bill will not provide a complete solution to what some adventurers, and I have to tell the Minister that they people argue risks becoming an increasingly atomised greeted the Bill with enthusiasm. They took the view and introverted society. It is just as important that the that we have achieved the wrong balance, with too Bill will help with better insurance provision and the much emphasis on health and safety, which, sadly, has busting of myths. led to the cancellation of a lot of trips similar to the One of my principal reasons for supporting this one that I went on—I now hold an award and a short Bill is that it provides clarity; it uses short, certificate for following in the steps of Roald Amundsen. uncomplicated language that is comprehensible to the I did not go quite as far as he did, but I feel that I have regulars in the saloon bar of the Dog and Duck. On seen the effect of taking risks on the development of Report, this approach seemed to come under attack one’s own personality and abilities. Younger people from what seemed to be two diametrically opposed certainly benefit from those boundaries being tested. reasons, which have started to reappear in our debate Therefore I bring to the Minister unbridled enthusiasm this afternoon. The first approach, which was adopted for the Bill and a slight questioning of why senior by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, and which lawyers have found fault with it so much. was supported on Report to some extent by the noble I speak from my own experience, having dealt with Lord, Lord Pannick, at col. 17, which I will not quote the Compensation Bill, which is generally accepted as this afternoon, appeared to argue that this legislation a good Bill. At the time, it came under severe attack was superfluous in that judges could always be relied from some of the most senior lawyers in this House, upon to take into account the factors that form the who tried to explain that it did not add anything and subject of the Bill. Later on in our debates, the focus that it should all be left to the judges. They asked why changed and a number of noble Lords, in particular on earth we were repeating the judgment of the very the noble and learned Lord, Lord Walker of senior noble and learned Lord, Lord Scott of Foscote, Gestingthorpe, at col. 46, argued that the provisions of who set out the position very clearly indeed, which we the Bill were too wide and required focus and definition repeated in Clause 1 of the Compensation Act 2006. to guide the courts and judges. But the general view is that that has done a great deal This amendment in the name of the noble and to calm people down and to stop the cancellation of a learned Lord, Lord Brown, seems to be moving towards lot of adventure holidays. the second approach. I therefore have concerns about Finally, I say to my noble friend the Minister how the impact this amendment may have upon the clarity pleased I am that he has decided to delete the word of the Bill, at least as it is seen through the eyes of the “generally” and insert the word “predominantly”. I regulars in the saloon bar of the Dog and Duck. I have thought about all sorts of other words that could be listened carefully to the two noble Lords who proposed used, as he may have guessed, but I think that the word the amendment, and I hope that they will forgive me if “predominantly”—for someone to have to demonstrate I say, again as a non-lawyer, that I have concerns about “a predominantly responsible approach towards protecting what they propose. My question to my noble friend on the safety or other interests of others”—really clarifies the Front Bench is: do we need three words in the the position brilliantly. I am very grateful to my noble place of the current one word? “Activity”has a simplicity friend for proposing that amendment today. 257 Responsibility and Heroism Bill[LORDS] Responsibility and Heroism Bill 258

[LORD HUNT OF WIRRAL] by looking at whether his approach to safety, taking into account All that I will say to the other lawyers in the House, all that he did or did not do, was generally a responsible one”.— who are far more senior than I could ever aspire to be, [Official Report, 15/12/14; col. 36.] although I have been in the same firm now for 50 years, I repeat that the Minister’s amendment would substitute is that I bow to their judgments—indeed, I have to “predominantly” for “generally”. This formulation is observe them and listen to them on many occasions. effectively a set of thematic variations of a kind so However, I question for a moment whether it might enigmatic that they are positively Elgarian. We should not be more acceptable for the House to recognise that recall that Clause 3 will apply not only to personal this Bill will do much to further the opportunities, injury claims—the subject which most of your Lordships particularly for younger people, to take the sort of who have supported the Government, particularly the risks that perhaps at my age I should never even have noble Lords, Lord Hodgson and Lord Hunt, have dreamt of, such as traversing the crevasses that I did addressed—but to an enormously wide range of potential over the weekend. I think that it did me a lot of good claims for negligence, breach of statutory duty or and will do them a lot of good, too. breach of contract, where the damage might be significant without any element of safety being in jeopardy. Lord Beecham (Lab): My Lords, I was anticipating Therefore, I repeat the question I asked at the earlier that the Minister would now move his amendment, stages of this sorry Bill’s journey through the House: but perhaps in the circumstances it would be sensible why should the negligent solicitor, accountant, financial if I spoke from the Opposition Front Bench. adviser, architect, builder, tradesman or manufacturer, The literary world is familiar with the concept of and more especially their insurers, escape liability to vanity publishing; this Bill is an example of its compensate an innocent client or purchaser because parliamentary equivalent, vanity legislation. Clause 3, their conduct has been predominantly responsible—or with or without the government amendment, or that in slightly different terms if the amendment of the noble of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, is the only clause Lord, Lord Pannick, is adopted—during the activity that even purports to effect a change in the law—and in question? that, in the words of Shakespeare’s Richard III, whose The amendments tabled respectively by the noble subject Ministers, and this Minister in particular, have Lord, Lord Pannick, and the Minister seek to insert so frequently prayed in aid, in a manner so “lamely wording that is marginally better than the existing and unfashionable” as to make it worse, not better. term “generally”, but significant questions still remain It is noteworthy that, time and again, as this essentially unanswered. What does “predominantly” mean? Why trivial measure has made its way through both Houses, should the solicitor who drafts a will but allows a Ministers have harped on the alleged need, in the beneficiary to witness it, an accountant who prepares words of the Minister at Report, a complicated set of accounts but inadvertently omits one or two relevant matters—the Goldsmith example “to provide reassurance to ordinary, hard-working people who cited by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown—or have adopted such an approach towards the safety or other interests of others during the course of an activity, that the courts a builder who, in constructing a house, fails properly will always take this into account in the event that something goes to connect a radiator, thereby causing a water leak, wrong and they are sued”. escape liability because the rest of what they did in In a remarkable non sequitur, the Minister went on to connection with their jobs was responsible? Moreover, express the hope that, what is the meaning of “responsible”? What does it “this will also give them greater confidence in standing up to actually impute? those who try to bring opportunistic and speculative claims by Even if the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord showing them that the law is on their side”.—[Official Report, Pannick, were accepted, this clause, far from clarifying 15/12/14; col. 34.] the law, seems likely to promote more, not less, litigation, That is a reference to the dreaded compensation culture unless, of course, people of modest means, for whom which apparently haunts the sleepless nights of Ministers, legal aid will not be available, are deterred from bringing potential defendants and their insurers—and now, we otherwise well founded claims and are thereby denied understand, possibly penguins in the Antarctic—but justice. But perhaps that is, after all, what the Government whose actual existence is more imaginary, in terms of really want and what the Bill will produce if Third cases brought, than real. Reading is concluded this afternoon and it is enacted, as in all probability will be the case. It does not enlarge 3.30 pm any substantive issue and addresses a problem which Again and again, Ministers have prayed in aid essentially does not exist. Clause 3 which, as I say, is personal injury claims as examples of where a generally the only part creating a new position, actually makes —or as it will be if the amendment is passed, the legal position worse, and will prejudice a great “predominantly”—responsible attitude has been exhibited many more people. in the course of the activity subject to a claim. The Minister dwelt on this aspect on Report, saying that The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Clause 3, Faulks) (Con): My Lords, this issue has not occupied a “represents a change to the law in that it—” great deal of time in your Lordships’ House but it has that is, the existing law— been the subject of vigorous debate. It has been assumed “does not currently oblige a court to consider whether a person that these matters are discussed in the Dog and Duck took a generally responsible approach to safety during the activity from time to time. Before today, I do not think that it in question. We wish to ensure that the courts take a slightly was even envisaged that the discussion extended as far broader view of the defendant’s conduct in these circumstances, as Antarctica. 259 Responsibility and Heroism Bill[6 JANUARY 2015] Responsibility and Heroism Bill 260

This is a small but important Bill, as the Government However, the real issue here is whether the term have said on a number of occasions. First, I wish to “carrying out the activity” is sufficiently clear. We think deal with the government amendment. In the course that this is a matter that judges will have no difficulty of the debates on Clause 3 at previous stages, concerns in interpreting. The activity in question would be were raised from a number of perspectives regarding completing the tax return, as I said previously, but I the use of the phrase “a generally responsible approach”. shall endeavour to give an example of what this clause The noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lord Pannick, is aimed at. I eschewed giving examples for the fear expressed concerns that using this phrase might suggest that they can be misleading. However, many claims are that a court should give weight to a defendant’s track brought against supermarkets for spillages that take record on safety, rather than focus on his or her place in their aisles. With the best will in the world, from conduct in the specific activity giving rise to a claim. time to time, yoghurt, milk, soft drinks or the like are My noble friends Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts found on the floor. They therefore present a potential and Lord Hunt of Wirral supported the clause but slipping or trip risk; and, apparently, a lot of people took the view that the word “generally” is capable of have, or have alleged that they have, fallen on these bearing a broad range of definitions and, conceivably, slippages. A well ordered supermarket will have a means may serve to confuse. of ensuring that these spillages are cleared up as soon as reasonably possible, and that, if necessary, some I indicated on Report that we were attracted to the sort of sign can be put around them while they are suggestion made by my noble friends of replacing being cleared up, or that somebody has charge of the “generally”with “predominantly”, and, following further process of clearing them up. Nevertheless, such a short consideration, we have concluded that this is the best period may elapse between the spillage and the accident approach to give greater clarity to the aim of the that this may be impossible. What the Bill is aimed at clause. This amendment makes clear that a body or is: if you are shopping at a supermarket and if its individual who takes a slapdash approach to safety on approach towards your visit is, “We don’t really mind a particular occasion cannot escape liability merely by that there is a spillage. We don’t have anything by way pointing to a previously unblemished health and safety of a system. The spillages can remain there in the aisle”, record. Instead, it means that the court must focus on then that is perhaps a relevant factor. On the other whether the defendant has taken a predominantly hand, if it has a system that is satisfactory and sensible—so responsible approach to safety in carrying out the that designated people are in charge of clearing up or activity in the course of which the alleged negligence guarding against these slippages—that is a responsible or breach of statutory duty occurred. As I have previously attitude. It should have the desirable result of limiting explained, we believe that this is an important factor the number of accidents. However, it is also a matter that merits the court’s attention. that most people would think ought to be taken into Perhaps I may deal with some of the points raised account in deciding whether there was negligence. during this short debate. The House will not have lost The argument that this is too broad would have a sight of the fact that the scheme of the Bill is that the little more force if the words “carrying out the activity” court must “have regard” to certain matters, including were not there. As I said, that focuses on the activity of those we are currently concerned with in relation to a visit to the supermarket or something rather more Clause 3. This does not mean that the court ignores all specific, but is not quite as narrow as “act or omission”, the other matters relevant in a negligence action; it which is proposed to be inserted in the Bill. I accept simply must have regard to certain matters but may what the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, decide that they are not of sufficient importance to said: “act or omission” are words that are very familiar have a significant effect on the outcome of the case. to judges, although “carrying out an omission” is rather I shall deal with the point raised by the noble and an infelicitous concept. It is difficult to know how one learned Lord, Lord Brown, and the noble Lord, Lord carries out an omission. I acquit the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, about an accountant—the subject of an exchange Pannick, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, on Report between myself and the noble and learned of poor draftsmanship, because I suspect that their Lord, Lord Goldsmith. I said then—while slightly answer would be rather like what the Irishman is alleged exaggerating the longevity of an accountant’s profession to have said to the man lost in Ireland and looking for —that it did not matter whether previous tax returns directions: he “would not necessarily start from here”. had been completed impeccably if a tax return or the However, this clause is likely to be part of the law and advice in question was negligently done. I adhere to we must have an amendment that is helpful and clarifies that. I might, of course, have given a further answer, the law. We say that the proposed amendment does not which is that the relationship with an accountant is help. We consider that the clause as worded, and as my almost always contractual. As well as owing a duty of noble friend Lord Hodgson said, ensures that the care in tort, he or she will owe a contractual duty to court’s attention is focused specifically on the activity exercise reasonable care in providing accountancy services. in the course of which the alleged negligence or breach Section 13 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act of statutory duty occurred. We think that the clarification provides: of the different adverb that the Government have “In a contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is tabled will remove any residual uncertainty. Therefore, acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the we do not believe that the amendment would improve supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill”. the clause’s drafting or its effectiveness. The implied term can be negative or varied, provided The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, was rather more that it does not fall foul of the Unfair Contract Terms wide-ranging in his attack on the Bill. I do not think it Act 1977. would be helpful to the House if I repeated the answers 261 Responsibility and Heroism Bill[LORDS] National Insurance Contributions Bill 262

[LORD FAULKS] men and women up and down the land are standing that I have given to his many attacks on the Bill ready to volunteer for social action. They are preparing throughout its passage. We are dealing with a relatively themselves for acts of heroism, waiting only to receive narrow amendment. the message that Parliament has approved this Bill to It is possible that the amendment tabled by the remove the concerns that they otherwise have about noble Lord, Lord Pannick, might narrow the scope of litigation. Then off to the youth clubs and old-age the clause by directing courts to focus on whether a homes they will go to volunteer and into the lakes they single act or omission in the course of a particular will dive to rescue those in danger, and in those activity was predominantly responsible, rather than circumstances it would be irresponsible of me to delay on whether the defendant’s approach to the activity as the Bill any longer. a whole was predominantly responsible. While the The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, was less than Government agree that the term “activity” should not complimentary about the Bill, but surely, so long as be given an overly broad interpretation for the reasons negligence cases are brought in this land, it will stand that I have given, we do not think that the court’s focus as a monument to the jurisprudential and policy should be narrowed to the extent that the amendment achievements of Lord Chancellor Grayling. It is a suggests. We believe that it must be right in cases such fitting testament to the Lord Chancellor: as these to require the courts to take a broader view of “Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”. the defendant’s conduct by looking at whether his This always was and it remains the most ridiculous approach to safety—taking into account all he did or piece of legislation approved by Parliament in a very did not do—was predominantly a responsible one. long time. However, I pay genuine tribute—I emphasise At earlier stages of the Bill, the noble Lord, Lord “genuine tribute”—to the Minister, who has applied Pannick, asked me whether this would lengthen cases, his formidable skills of reason and eloquence, and has as people would look at the overall approach. With done so with consummate courtesy, to a text that great respect to him, in these cases a claimant or would barely muster a pass mark in GCSE legal defendant will often look at their system generally. If studies, if there is such a thing. there is an accident, attention will often be drawn to When the noble Lord was appointed to his position an accident book or an accident record, or the proper on the Front Bench, he would no doubt have looked approach to a history of accidents. I do not accept forward to debating important issues of law and justice, that there will be any significant lengthening or and I doubt that he expected that he would be the complication of litigation as a result of this. straight man in Mr Grayling’s comedy routine, requiring The Government’s approach will help to reassure a courts to consider whether a defendant has acted wide range of individuals and organisations—whether heroically. Well, the Minister has heroically dived into it will spur them on to the sort of adventure undertaken the lake created by Mr Grayling’s conference speech. by my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral, I am not He has rescued this pitiful creature of a Bill—and it is sure. However, we hope that it will help to encourage a pitiful creature—and has emerged from the lake with volunteering and to remove, at least to some extent, his hair still dry and his suit entirely uncrumpled, he is the shadow that can hang over many activities: the not even out of breath and he has done it all with a fear of litigation. I simply do not accept the disavowal straight face. If I may say so, that is deeply impressive, by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, of there being a which is more than can be said for this Bill. I beg leave compensation culture, or, at the very least, a perception to withdraw the amendment. of one. Amendment 1 withdrawn. We think that the courts will still have every opportunity to come, as they do, to sensible decisions on the facts Amendment 2 of each case, using the well established principles of negligence. We regard these changes brought about by Moved by Lord Faulks the Bill, particularly Clause 3, to be modest in scope, 2: Clause 3, page 1, line 12, leave out “generally” and insert nevertheless representing a change that reflects what “predominantly” most would regard as sensible. Amendment 2 agreed. I shall move Amendment 2 in due course, and I hope that, on the basis of the explanation I have given, 3.49 pm the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, and the Bill passed and returned to the Commons with amendments. noble Lord, Lord Pannick, will agree to withdraw Amendment 1. National Insurance Contributions Bill Report 3.45 pm Lord Pannick: My Lords, I am very grateful to 3.49 pm noble Lords who have contributed to this entertaining debate. I remain concerned about the width of Clause 3 Amendment 1 but I am not going to divide the House. To use the Moved by Lord Newby Minister’s analogy, there is no point in crying over 1: Before Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— spilt yoghurt. “Secondary Class 1 contributions: apprentices under 25 Mr Grayling, the Lord Chancellor, has told us—and Zero-rate secondary Class 1 contributions for apprentices the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, has confirmed under 25 from his Antarctic experience traversing crevasses—that (1) SSCBA 1992 is amended as follows. 263 National Insurance Contributions Bill[6 JANUARY 2015] National Insurance Contributions Bill 264

(2) In section 9 (calculation of secondary Class 1 contributions), “(aa) if section 9B below (zero-rate secondary Class 1 in subsection (1A), after paragraph (a) insert— contributions for certain apprentices) applies to the earnings, 0%;”. “(aa) if section 9B below (zero-rate secondary Class 1 contributions for certain apprentices) applies to the (8) In section 9A (the age-related secondary percentage), after earnings, 0%;”. subsection (1) insert— (3) In section 9A (the age-related secondary percentage), after “(1A) But this section does not apply to those earnings so far subsection (1) insert— as section 9B below (zero-rate secondary Class 1 contributions for “(1A) But this section does not apply to those earnings so far certain apprentices) applies to them.” as section 9B below (zero-rate secondary Class 1 contributions for (9) After section 9A insert— certain apprentices) applies to them.” “9B Zero-rate secondary Class 1 contributions for certain (4) After section 9A insert— apprentices “9B Zero-rate secondary Class 1 contributions for certain (1) Where a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as apprentices mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, this section applies to the (1) Where a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the employment in mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, this section applies to the question, if the earner is a relevant apprentice in relation to that earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the employment in employment. question, if the earner is a relevant apprentice in relation to that (2) An earner is a “relevant apprentice”, in relation to an employment. employment, if the earner— (2) An earner is a “relevant apprentice”, in relation to an (a) is aged under 25, and employment, if the earner— (b) is employed, in the employment, as an apprentice. (a) is aged under 25, and (3) For the purposes of this Act a person is still to be regarded (b) is employed, in the employment, as an apprentice. as being liable to pay a secondary Class 1 contribution even if the (3) For the purposes of this Act a person is still to be regarded amount of the contribution is £0 because this section applies to as being liable to pay a secondary Class 1 contribution even if the the earnings in question. amount of the contribution is £0 because this section applies to (4) The Treasury may by regulations provide that, in relation the earnings in question. to relevant apprentices, there is to be for every tax year an upper (4) The Treasury may by regulations provide that, in relation secondary threshold for secondary Class 1 contributions. to relevant apprentices, there is to be for every tax year an upper That threshold is to be the amount specified for that year by secondary threshold for secondary Class 1 contributions. regulations made by the Treasury. That threshold is to be the amount specified for that year by (5) Subsections (4) and (5) of section 5 above (which confer regulations made by the Treasury. power to prescribe an equivalent of a secondary threshold in (5) Subsections (4) and (5) of section 5 above (which confer relation to earners paid otherwise than weekly), and subsection (6) power to prescribe an equivalent of a secondary threshold in of that section as it applies for the purposes of those subsections, relation to earners paid otherwise than weekly), and subsection (6) apply for the purposes of an upper secondary threshold in relation of that section as it applies for the purposes of those subsections, to relevant apprentices as they apply for the purposes of a apply for the purposes of an upper secondary threshold in relation secondary threshold. to relevant apprentices as they apply for the purposes of a (6) Subsection (7) applies if— secondary threshold. (a) a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as (6) Subsection (7) applies if— mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, (a) a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as (b) the earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, employment in question, exceed the current upper secondary threshold (or the prescribed equivalent) in (b) the earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the relation to relevant apprentices, and employment in question, exceed the current upper secondary threshold (or the prescribed equivalent) in relation to (c) the earner is a relevant apprentice in relation to the relevant apprentices, and employment. (7) This section does not apply to those earnings so far as they (c) the earner is a relevant apprentice in relation to the exceed that threshold (or the prescribed equivalent) (“the excess employment. earnings”) and, accordingly, for the purposes of section 9(1) (7) This section does not apply to those earnings so far as they above the relevant percentage in respect of the excess earnings is exceed that threshold (or the prescribed equivalent) (“the excess the secondary percentage. earnings”) and, accordingly, for the purposes of section 9(1) above the relevant percentage in respect of the excess earnings is the (8) But the Treasury may by regulations modify the effect of secondary percentage. subsection (7) in a case in which the earner falls within an age group specified in column 1 of the table in section 9A(3) above. (8) But the Treasury may by regulations modify the effect of subsection (7) in a case in which the earner falls within an age (9) In subsection (2)(b) “apprentice” has such meaning as the group specified in column 1 of the table in section 9A(3) above. Treasury may prescribe. (9) In subsection (2)(b) “apprentice” has such meaning as the (10) The Treasury may by regulations amend subsection (2)(a) Treasury may prescribe. so as to alter the age that an earner must be in order to be a relevant apprentice (and regulations under this subsection may (10) The Treasury may by regulations amend subsection (2)(a) have the effect of allowing anyone who is of an age at which so as to alter the age that an earner must be in order to be a secondary Class 1 contributions are payable to be a relevant relevant apprentice (and regulations under this subsection may apprentice).” have the effect of allowing anyone who is of an age at which secondary Class 1 contributions are payable to be a relevant (10) In section 172(11A) (regulations subject to affirmative apprentice).” procedure), after “9A(7),” insert “section 9B(4), (8) or (10),”. (5) In section 176(1)(a) (regulations subject to affirmative (11) The amendments made by this section come into force— procedure), after “section 9A(7);” insert— (a) for the purposes of making regulations under section 9B “section 9B(4), (8) or (10);”. of SSCBA 1992 or section 9B of SSCB(NI)A 1992, at the (6) SSCB(NI)A 1992 is amended as follows. end of the period of 2 months beginning with the day on (7) In section 9 (calculation of secondary Class 1 contributions), which this Act is passed, and in subsection (1A), after paragraph (a) insert— (b) for remaining purposes, on 6 April 2016.” 265 National Insurance Contributions Bill[LORDS] National Insurance Contributions Bill 266

Lord Newby (LD): My Lords, in Committee, I outlined certain level. In other words, the power will provide a the Government’s intention to table an amendment to means to introduce an upper secondary threshold for give effect to the important initiative regarding apprentices apprentices in the same way as we are doing for announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his under-21 year-olds. This threshold will be set at the Autumn Statement on 3 December. I now move this level of the upper earnings limit in the 2016-17 tax year. amendment to the Bill. As noble Lords will be aware, The Government believe that this measure, alongside the Chancellor announced that the Government will other initiatives on apprenticeships and the abolition abolish employer class 1 national insurance contributions of employer’s NICs for under-21s from April 2015, for apprentices under the age of 25 from April 2016. will help to address the problem of youth unemployment This builds on the removal of employer class 1 national in the UK. I beg to move. insurance contributions for all under-21 year-olds from April 2015. Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab): My Lords, I begin Amendments to Section 9 and new Section 9B of with an expression of gratitude to the Minister. As he the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 indicated in his speech, he was kind enough in Committee and the Social Security Contributions and Benefits to indicate the thrust of amendments that would be (Northern Ireland) Act 1992 give effect to the tabled on Report. He duly fulfilled that promise. Therefore, Government’s intention to abolish employer class 1 when I received his letter dated 22 December—I give NICs for apprentices under the age of 25 from April the House the opportunity to imagine just when I 2016 by introducing a zero rate of secondary class 1 settled down to read this letter—it did not cause quite NICs for employers of apprentices under the age of 25 the degree of consternation that the Minister might on the earnings of those employees. The zero rate will have thought. It was not an unfortunate Christmas apply to earnings below the upper earnings limit. present but merely confirmed that the Government were in fact carrying out their intentions with regard As the Chancellor made clear, apprenticeships are to the Bill. Therefore, I thank him for his letter, timely at the heart of the Government’s drive to equip people as it was. of all ages with the skills valued by employers. This As we indicated at Second Reading and in Committee, measure is intended to support employers who provide we are supportive of the broad intent of the Bill and apprenticeships to young people by removing the the form of the NICs position. We welcome the particular requirement that they pay secondary class 1 NICs on amendment, but nevertheless have some anxieties which earnings up to the upper earnings limit for those I hope the Minister will assuage. What will be the level employees. The measure is also intended to support of scrutiny to ensure that this change to the NICs youth employment. Under this Government, employment position in order to encourage apprenticeships does is at its highest ever level while unemployment is now not result in a rerun in apprenticeships of some of the lower than when they came into power. However, aspects we have seen of the Government’s obvious there is still more to do. The Government will provide enormous delight in the number of self-employed a zero rate of employer’s class 1 NICs on the earnings people? of apprentices under the age of 25 from 6 April 2016. The measure will apply both to new and existing We are all too well aware that the increase in apprentices aged under 25 and is not time-limited. self-employment conceals in many respects great difficulty for people who cannot get work in any other way, so The first main feature of the new clause is that there they engage in the most risky process of advancing is a regulation-making power to define “apprentice”. and safeguarding their lifestyle. What reassurances There are existing statutory definitions relating to can the Minister give that this extension of the reduction apprenticeships. For example, in England and Wales, in national insurance contributions will not lead to the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning unscrupulous employers using this strategy in order to Act 2009 introduces the concept of an “apprenticeship reduce the taxation that ought to be paid? agreement”, which is defined in part with reference to The Minister must know that there are certain an apprentice. Because education and training is a areas where self-employment is very significant. We devolved matter, and not all apprentices are employed should mention in particular the construction industry. under apprenticeship agreements, we will need to look All of us in the House recognise that that industry has at the approaches taken towards apprenticeships in particular patterns of labour engagement—that goes the different devolved Administrations. The power without saying. Nevertheless, we also know that evasion will allow time to discuss the definition with stakeholders can be carried out with regard to taxation in this such as the Skills Funding Agency and its devolved respect. The noble Lord must appreciate that the equivalents. The power will also enable us to respond addition which this legislation presents as regards the simply to changing statutory definitions and requirements under-25s, for example, might lead to difficulties. in the future. The Government are passing this Bill without a Secondly, there are regulation-making powers to clear definition of “apprenticeship”; they say that they vary the age group to which the zero rate of secondary are working on it. In due course a definition will be class 1 NICs for apprentices applies. For example, the introduced in legislation which the Government say Government could in the future allow for an increase will meet the requirements. It is to be subject to in the age bracket of apprentices falling into the zero secondary legislation at a date that is certainly some rate band of secondary class 1 NICs. Thirdly, there is a way in the future. Given that the Government are regulation-making power to ensure that the benefit of emphasising the importance of apprenticeships in this the zero rate of secondary class 1 NICs for apprentices Bill, we would have hoped that the Minister would can be enjoyed only in respect of earnings below a have got some way towards defining the term. 267 National Insurance Contributions Bill[6 JANUARY 2015] National Insurance Contributions Bill 268

I can give him some illustrations of what a proper having an ability to amend the definition, which is definition of apprenticeship might look like. It might obviously easier to do in secondary legislation, rather indicate that the apprenticeship should normally last than in having a very detailed definition in the Bill. for two or three years at the least. It might indicate We obviously share the noble Lord’s concern that that apprentices should be new entrants to the area of the quality of apprentices and apprenticeships should work rather than existing employees. The fact that the be as high as possible, and we have worked very hard Government have made no real attempt during the to ensure that. The principal way that we have been passage of the Bill to address these issues means that doing it is through supporting so-called Trailblazers, we fear that what they will do with it, if they have the which are employer-led apprenticeship standards and chance, will reflect their present activities; namely, that assessment approaches. More than 1,000 employers, a great number of apprenticeships involve merely in more than 75 sectors, have been involved in those; rebranding workers who are already at a place of work 73 standards have been approved and published and and calling them apprentices without identifying what more than 75 new standards are in development. the skills acquisition and development actually involves. These cover a wide range of sectors, from fashion to nuclear, law, banking and the Armed Forces. 4pm The first apprenticeship starts under the new, improved Under this Government, one in five apprenticeships standards began in September last year and the has lasted for only six months. One has to question the programme will continue. Our aim is that from 2017-18, quality of apprenticeships in which these skills can be all apprenticeship starts will be on the new standards. achieved in such a limited time. It is also the case that I hope that that will go some way to reassure the noble the vast majority of apprenticeships have gone to Lord that we are as concerned as he is to drive up the people well beyond the age of 25. This is about rebadging, quality of apprenticeships so that young people—or not about enhancing or offering opportunities. indeed people of any age—taking part in them will get something of real value to themselves and to the Although we will not express opposition or divide economy more generally. I hope that I have been able the House on the proposals in the amendment that the to answer the noble Lord’s questions. Minister has just advanced, we had hoped that the Minister would have presented the amendment in Amendment 1 agreed. the context of a real drive towards the proper advancement of apprentices rather than continuing a policy of Clause 2: Consequential etc power which there is much criticism and which we in the Labour Party intend to address when we form the next Amendment 2 Administration. Moved by Lord Newby 2: Clause 2, page 1, line 13, at end insert— Lord Newby: My Lords, I am glad the Labour Party “(5A) A statutory instrument containing (with or without intends to address this when it forms the next other provision) regulations under this section that amend or Administration—if it ever does—but it would have repeal a provision of an Act may not be made unless a draft of the done better to have addressed it when it formed the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, last. each House of Parliament.” As far as evasion is concerned, there is no evidence Lord Newby: My Lords, as I mentioned in Grand that employers will seek to use this measure to, for Committee on Monday 15 December, the Government example, claim that a large number—or any number—of are bringing forward four minor technical amendments their staff are apprentices who are not actually apprentices. to Clause 2 and Schedule 1, which deal with simplifying They will be required to meet the conditions of the the collection of class 2 NICs payable by the self-employed. regulations. The regulations that we are setting out in Amendments 2 and 3 are the Government’s response secondary legislation will include, at the least, an to the report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory accredited form of training—for example by the Skills Reform Committee on the delegated powers contained Funding Agency or its devolved equivalents. Employers in the Bill, which was published on 27 November. The will need to be able to confirm to HMRC that the report drew to the attention of the House the power in employee in question is indeed an apprentice. The Clause 2 to amend primary and secondary legislation conditions will be designed in such a way that it will be as a consequence of the reform of class 2 NICs. This easy for employers to provide verification if asked by power is currently subject to the negative procedure. HMRC on a routine compliance visit. The bull point The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee is that there is no evidence whatever, circumstantial or said that in its view the justification given in HMRC’s otherwise, that employers either have been or will seek delegated powers memorandum was not sufficient for to use this relief, or existing funding schemes for the negative procedure to apply where the power allows apprentices, to get an unfair benefit. for the amendment or repeal of primary legislation, The noble Lord asked about definitions and why and recommended that in this instance the power we have not included a definition of apprenticeships in should be subject to the affirmative procedure. I can the Bill. As I said, there is a definition of “apprentice” confirm that the Government have considered and in the 2009 Act, which is the starting point for the acted on the report of the Delegated Powers Committee. definition that we propose to put into secondary Amendment 2 provides that regulations made under legislation. We have to consult with and seek the Clause 2 which amend or repeal primary legislation agreement of the devolved Administrations, which are to be subject to the affirmative procedure. will take a little time. There is also an advantage in Amendment 3 provides that the negative procedure 269 National Insurance Contributions Bill[LORDS] House of Lords 270

[LORD NEWBY] 5: Schedule 1, page 12, line 33, at end insert— will continue to apply to any use of the power set out “( ) Schedule 24 to the Finance Act 2007 (penalties for in Clause 2 where a statutory instrument does not errors);” contain any regulations modifying primary legislation. Amendments 4 and 5 agreed. Amendments 4 and 5 are minor and technical amendments that the Government intend should be House of Lords made to the draft legislation in the Bill that deals with Motion to Take Note simplifying the collection of class 2 NICs payable by the self-employed. Amendment 4 amends Schedule 1 4.10 pm to the Bill, which inserts new Section 11A into the Moved by Lord Williams of Elvel Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992. This is being made to ensure that the relevant self- That this House takes note of the case for effecting assessment—SA—penalties apply to class 2 contributions a reduction in the number of Peers attending the collected through self-assessment by adding a missing House each day without recourse to primary legislation. reference to the self-assessment under declaration penalty Lord Williams of Elvel (Lab): My Lords, before I contained in Schedule 24 to the Finance Act 2007. It begin, I should say that, although this is a take-note was always the Government’s intention to align penalties Motion, it is a take-note Motion with a purpose. Most for class 2 contributions more closely with those for people seem to agree that the House is too large, but SA as part of the reform of class 2 so that the nobody seems able to come up with a solution that self-employed are not subject to two different regimes, does not involve the cumbersome process of primary but this particular penalty was unintentionally omitted. legislation. This afternoon, I want to offer a way Amendment 5 makes a corresponding amendment to forward. That is the purpose of this Motion. the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992. I hope that noble Lords will feel Let us briefly look at the figures. During the past able to support these minor amendments. few years, the House has expanded both in “absolute” and in “actual”terms—these expressions and the figures Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I have not the I quote are taken from the recent helpful Library Note slightest difficulty in commenting favourably on technical and supplements from the Library that I have requested. Amendments 3, 4 and 5, which of course I understand At 16 December last, the absolute—that is, the total— the necessity for. I am glad the Government have brought membership was 847. The actual membership—in other them forward. Nor am I against Amendment 2—far words, excluding those unable for one reason or another from it, I am very much in favour of Amendment 2. to be active Members—was 791. The average daily I merely draw to the attention of the House the very attendance in the 2013-14 Session was 497. By contrast, credible work of our colleagues in the Delegated Powers in 2009-10, the equivalent first and third values—that and Regulatory Reform Committee, which drew this is, total membership and average daily attendance—were issue to the attention of the Government in a way that 735 and 388 respectively. Average daily attendance gave them just sufficient time before Christmas to get therefore rose from 388 to 497, which is more than their act together and indicate that they were going to a quarter. table amendments on Report to give effect to the The effect of this increase is not hard to see. The committee’s recommendation, which is to ensure that Chamber overflows at Question Time. The House has such a significant part of the legislation should be had to make provision for extra seats below Bar. Many subject to the affirmative procedure and therefore debates are so populated that speaking time is cut down much closer and more effective scrutiny in Parliament to five minutes or less. Consequently, Peers are put off than the negative procedure. I am very much in favour from putting their names down at all. The rotation of Amendment 2 and I congratulate our colleagues. I arrangements for committee membership to accommodate am sure the whole House is very appreciative of the aspiring candidates is about to become, in my view, work that is done by the committee. Once again it has too stringent for proper operational efficiency. Division done something that the House can take great pleasure Lobbies are frequently too crowded for comfort. The in approving. facilities of the House are strained to breaking point. Accommodation and meeting space for Peers has not Amendment 2 agreed. kept up with the increase in numbers, leading to business being conducted in the corridors or the Guest Room. Amendment 3 In short, the conduct of the House’s business has become Moved by Lord Newby disorderly. The question then arises: what powers does the House 3: Clause 2, page 1, line 14, after “section” insert “that does not have to be approved in draft under subsection (5A)” have by itself to deal with the problem without recourse to primary legislation? To this purpose, I have taken advice Amendment 3 agreed. from the Table and my attention has been drawn to the report of the 1955 Select Committee on the powers of Schedule 1: Reform of Class 2 contributions the House in relation to the attendance of its Members. In its report, which was approved by the House, the Amendments 4 and 5 Select Committee stated in paragraph 2 that the House, “has full power to do anything which may be necessary to ensure Moved by Lord Newby the orderly and decent conduct of its business”. 4: Schedule 1, page 9, line 33, at end insert— We should note in passing that what it cannot do is “( ) Schedule 24 to the Finance Act 2007 (penalties for errors);” override the Writ of Summons. 271 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 272

My proposal on how to exercise this “full power” in hindrance in the next. Moreover, it would be undesirable the context of the problem that I have described is in for the scheme in its trial period to produce a wholly mechanism quite simple but in reasoning rather complex. different cast of characters, as might happen if this My proposal is that, on the recommendation of the provision were not included. Nevertheless, political Procedure Committee, the House should be invited to parties and the Cross Benches must have some leeway pass a resolution; namely that, “in order to ensure the in choosing Peers who have not qualified as “active orderly conduct of business in the House, attendance Peers” but who, for various reasons, they consider at the proceedings of the House shall be regulated in suitable to maintain and enhance the reputation of the accordance with a scheme established by the House; House. The 25% provision for nominations at the and, to that end, Peers shall consider most carefully disposal of each grouping is designed to give groupings applying for leave of absence under the provisions of that extra ability. that scheme”. To go a little further, the reason for basing the If this resolution is passed it will allow an amendment majority of nominations on previous— to Standing Order 22 along similar lines but with the important proviso that, “the House will at pleasure Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con): I am most grateful grant leave of absence to any Peer making an application to the noble Lord, and I am listening very carefully to under the provisions of the scheme established under his scheme. However, would not the provision that the Standing Order”. The Companion would then spell required 75% to be very active Peers encourage more out in detail the proposed scheme in a new appendix. Peers to be more active and therefore defeat his purpose? It will state the intention to ensure that no more than 400 Peers attend the House in each Parliament and Lord Williams of Elvel: I am all for more Peers that these Peers will be known as “active Peers”. These being more active. We are talking about 75% of those will be nominated by each of the four groupings—Labour, with relatively high attendance records in the current Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Cross Bench—and Parliament. This will be debated and decided by the in addition the non-affiliated, on the basis of the Procedure Committee, but I do not see an argument proportion of the existing House held by each grouping, for resiling on that. provided that 75% of nominations should be of those with the greatest relative attendance record in the There have been other suggestions. Some have current Parliament. suggested an inbuilt gender balance, some a proper regional balance, some ethnic representation. One As to the reasoning behind all this, I will address suggestion that I heard was that former Members of what I perceive to be the four major areas of difficulty—all the House of Commons should not qualify. of which will merit full discussion in the Procedure Frivolous and impractical suggestions apart, the Committee. First, there has been recently, after yet only other attractive criterion for nominations is the another influx of new Peers, renewed and more intense exclusion of Peers beyond a certain age. Yet, attractive discussion about the optimum size of the House. as the idea may be as a principle, in my view it has Without regarding it as an optimum, the firm opinion three main drawbacks. First, it is difficult—and, if I of those I have consulted is that the maximum actual may say so, idiosyncratic—to argue that the disorder I membership should be no more than 400 Peers. I described earlier is due not to overcrowding per se but believe this to be the right number to aim for. It would to the presence of Peers above a certain age and that in practice return us, more or less, to the situation in therefore an age exclusion would lie squarely within May 2010—in numbers but with a different composition. the aim of, It also has the advantage—I agree that this is rather dubious but in terms of presentation it is perhaps “ensuring orderly and decent conduct of … business”. convenient—of being just over half the current actual Secondly, in order to avoid being unfairly membership. discriminatory in applying only to a particular group of Peers, it would have to apply to the absolute number, Secondly, there is the balance of membership between the total membership of the House. That being so, the various groupings. As I said, I propose that the current new appointees and Members returning from official balance of the House represented by the proportions duties or leave of absence would, as a matter of of the actual membership in each grouping should be fairness, be subject to the same limitation as existing reproduced in my scheme. There are many possible Members. In the former case, it is difficult to see how variants but neither I nor anybody I consulted could that would fit easily with the Writ of Summons and suggest an alternative way of arranging the quotas the Letters Patent—or, for that matter, human rights that would not promote an undignified and bad-tempered legislation. wrangle. There will no doubt be disagreement but we Lastly, it would not properly address the matter of are, alas, where we are. the balance of groupings in the resulting House. The Thirdly, I propose that 75% of all the nominations application of a blanket limitation on age would have by grouping should be those who have attended with differential effects to the disadvantage of the Cross most relative frequency—relative to the number of days Benches, average age 72, my party, average age 70, and available to them—in the current Parliament. This the Conservatives, average age 69. The winners would provision would not only seem to be a most practical be the Liberal Democrats, with an average age of 67 approach but will ensure a necessary degree of continuity, —the party of eternal youth. I am not sure that that in particular to ensure that those who have kept the would be entirely acceptable to the House, but, if it House active on a day-to-day basis in the current were, it would distort the percentage of the groupings Parliament would be able to continue to do so without and in my view introduce an unstable House. 273 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 274

[LORD WILLIAMS OF ELVEL] It can be done. We are always told that this is a The fourth possible point of controversy concerns self-regulating House—I hope that the noble Lord, those who are at present entitled to attend but who are Lord Strathclyde, will support me—and if we are to not nominated as active Peers. I suggest that they be regulate ourselves, we should take the opportunity to encouraged to apply for temporary leave of absence. do so. The means are there; the question is whether we The Select Committee that I quoted and the consequent have the will. I beg to move. Standing Order 22(1) make the position clear. Application for leave of absence is an act of individual choice and 4.27 pm there can be nothing which smacks of compulsion, Lord Strathclyde (Con): My Lords, I am here entirely but the fact that only active Peers will be entitled to out of curiosity. When I saw that this Motion was on attend and hence eligible to make claims for travel and the Order Paper, while I understood the fundamental attendance should be incentive enough if linked to the motivation of the noble Lord, Lord Williams, to see a suggested text in the Companion. reduction in the number of Peers, I, for one, had I have used the expression “trial period” because absolutely no idea how he was going to achieve it nor the scheme may, and probably will, need to be modified what he was going to suggest—nor, having suggested in the light of experience of operating a House with a those things, by which means the House could come to finite and defined membership, as opposed to one a collective decision. I entirely agree with him that a which is in practice open ended. It may be necessary to self-regulating House should have the means to look accommodate new groupings. In future years, different at its Standing Orders to see whether it is being brought groupings may wish to adopt different methods of into disrepute or disorder. He and I have been Members selection of active Peers. The House of Commons of this House for a long time. Indeed, he and I sparred may in the end decide what it wants to do with across the Dispatch Box as far back as the 1980s, us—perhaps. which just goes to show that we are all getting a lot older, as we are half way through the second decade of I therefore suggest a review as the next Parliament the 21st century. draws to its close. Of course, it may be that the forthcoming general election will produce a House of I have to congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Williams, Commons which is so fractured in composition that it on getting this Motion down on the Order Paper—and is unable to last the full term of five years. Although I in prime time. This leads me to believe that the have suggested text for the Companion, I suspect that Government have given the go-ahead for such a discussion there may be some provision to allow that to be rolled to take place, not just as a debate in the House of over if there is an early Dissolution. Lords but for a committee to look at this. Why is that? I suppose it is because they, like me, have heard over I am under no illusions about the difficulty of the course of the last two or three years a rising translating my proposal into action. There will be a cacophony of Members of the House who are concerned particularly heavy burden on the Procedure Committee about the ever increasing number of Peers. The reason to analyse and digest both my proposal—which will is that throughout history very few new Peers have be formally on the desk of the Chairman of Committees been made up, but since 1998, and the removal of the tomorrow morning if this Motion is agreed—and the hereditary peerage, that number has of course increased. proposals and submissions which I very much hope The noble Lord and I, and many others in this House, other noble Lords will make to it. Nevertheless, the were Members of a House of Lords that had a far House will be aware that if anything is to happen, it larger membership than we have today but a far lower really has to happen before the end of March and the daily attendance, because those Peers did not feel the start of a new Parliament. That is why I urge that the same burden of obligation that Peers feel today and committee reports back to the House with its conclusions were at least prepared to come in less often than they before the end of February. do today. Finally, I am under no illusions about the impact of What I have not yet ascertained—it may come out my proposals—or any similar proposals to reduce in the course of today’s debate—is what the problem is average attendance—on some valued Members who that we are trying to solve. If we have a problem of too do not attend regularly and are not chosen by their many people, what should we do about it and, indeed, groupings under the 25% provision. Nevertheless, I what could we do? Not so long ago, I supported a believe that it should be done. A House of finite and proposal by this Government to reduce the size of the defined membership will have many advantages. No House to 450 by election. That proposal was welcomed future Government will be able to pack the House in the House of Commons with a huge majority at with their supporters. The controversy over “cash for Second Reading, but then the parties of government peerages” will disappear since although political donors and opposition could not agree on how much debating may be awarded peerages as an honour, there will be time it should have in the Commons and the proposal no immediate passport to a voting membership in this ultimately fell. We have an opportunity now, instead House. Divisions will no longer depend on who can of having solutions imposed on us, to discuss again bus in more of their inactive Members. In short, the the kind of changes that we would like to see. House will look more like what it should be, a well I do not believe that I am alone in saying that it is informed, experienced and moderate revising Chamber, an enormous privilege to be a Member of this House. and less like the caricature which is frequently painted: In the years that I have been a Member here, people that of a cross between an old folks’ home for have come in via all sorts of methods: some, like me, superannuated politicians and a bloated relic from a thanks to an accident of birth as a former hereditary bygone age. Peer directly elected by my colleagues. There are the 275 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 276

Bishops, who are appointed; the Cross-Benchers, who and the population is getting ever older, having a come through the Appointments Commission; and repository of age in this House is not necessarily a bad the party Peers, who come here through their leaders. thing. We come here in different ways and we all have our I did not follow the suggestion made by the noble own role to play in the way that the House operates. It Lord, Lord Williams, quite as keenly as my noble is a voluntary and part-time House, and I like to think friend Lord Forsyth, but it struck me, exactly as it that we do the job that we are asked to—revision, struck my noble friend, that a proposal that guaranteed scrutiny and general debate—extremely effectively. a set amount of what the noble Lord called “active I have one regret: the groan that rises in this House Peers” would simply encourage people to become even when there is talk of a new list. Not least, it is deeply more active, and that is not in the best interests of the insulting to new Peers who join this House; we need a reputation of this House. I would almost like to hand new life-blood of Peers coming in. We will all take a out a prize—perhaps this is something the Lord Speaker view on what that quantum should be, but without could do at the end of each Session—for the most new Peers we will become the old folks’ home that the effective Peer who has not taken up the most time of noble Lord, Lord Williams, has warned us against. the House of Lords and encourage effectiveness by that. I used to get a queue of Peers who would ask me, Although there has been higher daily attendance, I “How much do you think I need to do to be useful?”. understand that there are 34 more Members today The whole point about this House is that many people than there were in 2007 in the four main groupings in come with backgrounds outside the House so that the House of Lords. I do not know if my noble friend what they do outside is almost as useful to this House the Leader of the House will be able to confirm that and to the governance of this country as what they do when she winds up, but it does not strike me that the inside it, and we should not forget that. numbers have grown completely out of hand. I have read other suggestions, such as that at the It strikes me that the whole point of the House of end of every Parliament there should be an automatic Lords is that it is there to throw up a hand of protest reduction of 10% in the size of the House, by ballot as from time to time to the elected Government represented the noble Lord, Lord Williams, suggested. As one who in the House of Commons, and we manage to do that. has gone through a party ballot to reduce its number, I We should do so by having a broad balance of numbers can tell the House that it is a quite a painful operation. between the two main parties of government. There While there are many volunteers to step back from the should be no majority for the Government in this House and many who are bound to get in, there is a House, and there is not and has not been. The House group in the middle who are not sure whether they will of Lords itself works out how best to regulate the get in, and the noble Lord would find it more difficult balance between the unelected but largely authoritative that he perhaps thinks. Under that proposal, new and influential House of Lords and the directly elected Peers would need to get a bye in their first Parliament democratic representatives who sit in the House of so that they would be guaranteed the first election Commons. So I urge a certain amount of caution in free. going down this route. Of course, it is easy to divide this process up within However, if we identify during the course of this the party groups, but the Cross Benches are a very debate that there is a problem and the Government different group which operate in an incredibly different and, indeed, the House and its committees wish to way. I addressed the Cross Benches only once or twice, take it up, I would hope that the clerks would be and I was struck by their breadth and depth. I think prevailed upon to draw up an options paper, on which they would find it much more difficult than the political they could consult throughout the House, on the parties to get together in some sort of electoral college. different ways of regulating it. One option is to have Then we have the “others”. I think the noble Lord, some sort of voluntary cap; I like the idea of not using Lord Stoddart of Swindon, is a member of the “others”. primary legislation. I am not sure that I favour any of How would we deal with them? There are also new these suggestions, by the way, but at least that is one. parties, such UKIP, and the nationalists. There are not Another option is term limits: every Peer who comes very many nationalists. There are no Scottish nationalists in gets 15 or 20 years, and at the end of that period— —I have said before that there should be—there are perhaps at the end of the Session, or at the end of the not very many Welsh nationalists, and there are the Parliament in which their time is up—they leave. However, parties representing Ireland. I can think of many Peers who are just coming into I am in favour of an options paper, if that is what their prime after 15 years. Certainly, if you had been this debate concludes, but it should be consulted on appointed a Conservative Peer in 1997 or 1998, you widely. We should tread warily. There is another change would have been out by now, just as we were coming that has taken place. We have just introduced for the into our prime in government. It is a blunt instrument. very first time the ability for Members of this House The noble Lord made a spirited defence of age in to retire permanently and statutorily to cut their links your Lordships’ House, or rather he tried to imply that to the House of Lords. This is only a few months old. an age limit would be a bad idea, yet it is the first A number of Peers have already taken it. Should we solution that most people reach for. There is an age not give Peers the opportunity to come forward and limit in so many different walks of life, so why not in volunteer to retire before we come forward with what I the House of Lords? Rather like the noble Lord, Lord am bound to say are quite difficult and complicated Williams, I am nervous of this. In an era when politicians schemes whose effects will be unknown in the long in the House of Commons are getting ever younger term? 277 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 278

4.39 pm However, the ever increasing size of the House means that something has to be done, some initiative Lord Elder (Lab): My Lords, I congratulate my taken—now. After all, if the Electoral Reform Society noble friend Lord Williams of Elvel on his major is right, and adjustment continues to be made after initiative and on putting it before the House. Perhaps each election to the base number of each group’s some will think that it should have been put to the membership, the Lords will move from being about individual groups in the House before bringing it here, half of the total number of parliamentarians a few but I take the view that that would not necessarily have years ago to being three-quarters. Peers who disagree been a way of opening up discussion—perhaps rather with that scheme need to point to a different solution the opposite. The debate is certainly timely. It comes at that has a chance of making progress. I accept that a time when all Members, I am sure, are aware that the there are many schemes, but few if them, if any, have present and future size of the House raises questions much chance of making progress. I have become convinced about the workings of the House that have not been that the only group which can take a reasonable initiative much to the fore in the past. People who turn their for reform of your Lordships’ House is this House back on any kind of proposal for change perhaps fail itself—hence the great usefulness of the discussion we to face up to the inexorable rise of numbers here, are having today, led by my noble friend Lord Williams which has made a very significant difference to the of Elvel, and future deliberations here and in the effective working of this place. Procedure Committee. First, I will make clear in my eccentric way my This proposal has the potential to give us a way to preferred first option in the reform debate, which I am raise and deal with the question of numbers. No afraid is still both not available and probably very doubt there could be flexibility in the final numbers, unpopular here—namely, the move to a unicameral with perhaps 400 plus the 25% top-up, rather than it system. That is not because I have anything other than being included. Either way, it would lead to a House of respect for what this House is or does, but because I a very effective size. It would be ideally placed to be a wish to preserve the primacy of the House of Commons. revising Chamber, but would still not be able ultimately Of course, an elected second chamber with the links to challenge the other place. It would not collapse between the two Houses covered as part of the written under its own weight, and would leave intact the constitution of this country could still preserve the appointment of Peers as part of the honours system. primacy of the other place, but we are further away This scheme concentrates the mind in the way that from that than from anything else. an endless number of other schemes, ranging from However, I am not in favour of reaching a unicameral constitutional conventions downwards, do not. It reminds system or indeed any other reform of this place by us that in this House we have both the powers and accident rather than design. That is what will surely responsibility, perhaps, to take effective action relating happen if we continue to see an increase in the size of to our size, should it be the case, as I believe it will be, this House in the way that has happened over the past that other discussions lead nowhere. There is at the few years. This House will simply collapse under its moment nothing actively on the table for discussion. own weight. If there has to be a major adjustment in For opening up this debate in a new and pragmatic the size of the House after each election—a point way, my noble friend is to be congratulated. which I would personally dispute—unless something is done to ensure that that can be achieved by a 4.45 pm reduction in the size of the House as well as by its Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB): My Lords, I greatly increase, we shall end up in a ludicrous situation, at welcome the opportunity to debate this important which point reform will be forced, and I doubt that matter this afternoon. I found myself in a large measure that will lead to a satisfactory outcome from anyone’s of agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Elder, who has point of view. just spoken. In fact, it is a pity that this debate does not I am a unicameralist precisely because I would not give the House an opportunity to express its opinion. wish to see the second Chamber challenge the legitimacy If there were such an opportunity, I think that a of the first, which would surely happen if both were majority of the House would agree with the statement elected. Of course, the position would be even worse if of the noble Lord, Lord Norton, in an earlier debate, the second Chamber was elected by a different system, that this House is too big, is growing bigger, and needs which would mean that there could be challenges of to be reduced. That is an urgent matter now, for a legitimacy depending on which electoral system individuals reason not referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde; preferred. It is no answer to say that we need a full it is inevitable that, after the next general election, written constitution to cover all that on top of what is there will be, and should be, a substantial number of already there, because at the present rate of progress further appointments to the House. that will take most of the foreseeable future. The House does risk coming into disrepute. Fun is If we accept that the primacy of the first Chamber poked at us by people pointing out that the House is is part of the constitution, there is no need to have the the largest parliamentary body in the world, apart from second Chamber roughly in the same proportions as China’s National People’s Congress. Of course, it does not the other place—which is in danger of implying an act like that, and the whole membership does not attend, undeserved democratic legitimacy on votes cast in this but it is an example of how fun can be poked at the place. After all, if it is to be representative of the votes House. cast in a general election, this House may end up being I am not a conspiracy theorist, despite what people regarded—leaving aside the Bishops and Cross Benches might suspect from my background, but it is tempting —as at least as legitimate as the directly elected House. to suspect that there is a conspiracy on the part of 279 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 280 those thwarted in the reform of the House in the 2012 Committee. I do not think that there is much prospect Bill to make so many appointments that the size of the of reaching agreement on a very complicated scheme. House makes it unworkable and absurd, so reform However, despite the political difficulties, I think that then becomes inevitable. The flaw in that was pointed there is merit in a scheme offering a financial inducement out by the noble Lord, Lord Elder—that there is no limited by the amount of money noble Lords received agreement among the parties about the nature of the in attendance allowance in the previous Session. necessary reform. If the 2012 Bill did one thing when Calculations show that that would be a good deal for it came before Parliament, it was to cause the penny to the taxpayer which would quickly pay off. That cannot drop with Members of another place that an elected be done through legislation but it does need to be second Chamber would become, in one form or another, done. I say to those who wish to go on as we are that to a direct challenge to the supremacy of the House of allow the House to grow like Topsy until it becomes Commons, and that no way could be found of entrenching ineffective and almost a scandal is the height of that supremacy. constitutional irresponsibility. I was a member of the royal commission under the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, which was the last body 4.53 pm to take an unconstrained look at the nature of the reform of this House. That was 15 years ago. I do not Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market (Con): My include the Joint Committee under the noble Lord, Lords, I welcome this debate, which gives us an Lord Richard, which did an excellent job, only because opportunity to discuss some of these issues yet again. it was constrained by the 2012 Bill that the Government I thank the noble Lord, Lord Williams, for giving us had introduced. That royal commission started, as all that opportunity. approaches to the question should—and as the noble We have talked many times about an elected House. Lords, Lord Strathclyde, Lord Elder and Lord Williams, As the noble Lord, Lord Butler, said, that issue is in did—by asking what the purpose is of the House of the long grass due to the other place waking up to Lords. Why should we have such a House at all? I what it would mean for that House. However, after an think that on this matter, too, there would be a large elected House, the size of this House is the next big measure of agreement in the House. It is to complement issue in terms of your Lordships’ office. I admire the the other House, not to challenge or replace it, by noble Lord’s objective but strongly doubt the practicality bringing a measure of experience and expertise from of his proposal and believe that there are better alternatives. people drawn from a wide range of positions in our As chairman of the Association of Conservative Peers, national life to comment on and advise on legislation in the past two or three years I have been involved in a introduced by the Executive into Parliament. I do not lot of discussions about not only an elected House but think that there would be much challenge to the the size of the House; whether it is in formal or informal proposition that your Lordships’ House performs a conversations, that issue almost inevitably comes up, necessary and useful role in doing that. after the issue of an elected House. This demonstrates I will not go into the question of whether that that there is concern in this House about its size and is best achieved by an elected or appointed House, that it may make us look increasingly unattractive, although the royal commission concluded that the and certainly out of date, if we go on growing at the range of expertise which is useful for that purpose pace we are. This debate therefore gives us an opportunity could not necessarily be expected in an elected Chamber. to assess the state of opinion on the merits of the That is why the royal commission proposed a mainly various proposals and to see whether there is some appointed House but with some elected Members. It way forward. I very much support my noble friend also recommended that there should be a limit on the Lord Strathclyde’s remark about conducting an analysis tenure of a position in this House of either 15 years or of some of those proposals. Indeed, the Clerk of the three electoral cycles. Again, I do not want to debate Parliaments produced a limited paper indicating some today whether that is the right thing to do or whether quite technical and more modest proposals for reducing a scheme of the sort proposed by the noble Lord, Lord the size of the House. However, my noble friend would Williams, would be a better approach. As I looked round intend that to go further, and I support him in that. the House as he made his speech, I noted some scepticism I want briefly to use this opportunity to indicate where about whether a scheme could be introduced in the I stand on the question of size. It cannot be defended very short time before the general election. However, that we are the second largest assembly in the world, given that we face the prospect of a number of further only behind the Chinese National People’s Congress; appointments, this is an urgent issue and I urge the and we are, even at that, an assembly with limited Government to take it seriously. powers. There is, of course, the impact on facilities For the reasons that I have given, some do not want and costs, to which the noble Lord, Lord Williams, to see any further reform of this House as they believe referred, and I have seen the document produced by that that would cause the reform which did not happen the Clerk on this, which indicates that introducing a previously to become inevitable. However, that is to argue modest proposal by which people can take retirement the merits of a train crash. As the noble Lord, Lord Elder, voluntarily could be done at additional cost; but I will said, the danger of adopting that approach is that an come back to that point later. Certainly, the effect on unwise reform is undertaken. That is what I fear. Therefore, the facilities and the costs of the House overall are I urge the Government to take this issue seriously. considerable. I support the proposal of the noble Lord, Lord There will always be occasions when our numbers will Strathclyde, to ask the clerks of the House to produce be added to from the dissolution and resignation honours, options that could be considered by the Procedure additional arrivals proposed by the Appointments 281 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 282

Commission, and so on. Inevitably, there will be new In conclusion, I have always, both in this House appointments at the end of a Parliament and sometimes and for 27 years in the other place, been opposed to an at the beginning of one. On the one hand, we are elected House of Lords, but we must recognise our constantly going to have new people coming in—I will defects and valid criticisms made of us. If we go on talk about fresh blood in a moment—but there is also growing and ageing, there will inevitably be such criticisms, the slow pace at which we deal with size at the other which will grow, not least in the media. We should end. So where do I personally stand? I want to spend grapple with this issue. Therefore, I support what my my time going briefly through the alternative ways to noble friend Lord Strathclyde suggests: a paper should reduce the numbers to compensate for the fresh blood. be drawn up, not just with the limited proposals that It is, of course, extremely important that we have the we had before, but that covers all the different alternatives fresh blood, and we should recall that experience and so that we can deal with this ourselves and be seen to expertise can get out of date as the years pass, and the be doing so. issues that involve experience and expertise are very different. That is why we definitely need the fresh blood. 5.01 pm First, the question of the hereditaries should be Lord Richard (Lab): My Lords, I congratulate my allowed to wither on the vine and we should no longer noble friend Lord Williams on raising this issue. It is have the process of an election for another hereditary one that we have skirted around many times in this Peer to replace one who dies. House for a very long time—I still bear the stripes of Secondly, establishing an age limit is also a proposal past debates on this subject; no doubt there will be put forward by the Labour Party working party. This, others to come—without facing up to it. in fact, I strongly support. That paper was correct; in The chief attraction of what my noble friend Lord every other occupation and profession there is an age Williams had to say is that it can be done without primary limit, and we should be no different. There will always legislation. I am in favour of an elected second Chamber be the argument, “Old so-and-so still contributes and have been for a very long time, as the House enormously to the House and we want to continue to probably knows. I do not resile from that position one have that benefit”. That may in part be true, but it scrap. Indeed, if some of the noises that are being could be argued elsewhere in other professions and in made by the leadership of my party in favour of an every occupation for which there is an age limit. However, elected second Chamber based on strong regional as I said a moment ago, it is important in this context connections were to come about, I would welcome it to recognise that experience and expertise can become with open arms and be delighted to support it. out of date. Human rights have sometimes been put We are not currently faced with that issue, however, forward as a reason for not introducing the proposal but with a problem that has arisen from the way that but that has not been an objection to proposing age limits the size of the House has grown. One can set out the elsewhere. If we are to reduce numbers to compensate issues very simply in a number of questions: is there a for the fresh blood that comes in, we should establish problem with the size of the House? The answer to an age limit. As the Labour Party proposed, retirement that is clearly yes. It is too big for the work that it does. should take place at the end of the Parliament during We do not need 800 people to do work that 400 or 450 which one has reached the age of 80. In other words, are perfectly capable of doing. Is the problem going to there would be automatic retirement not at the age go on unless it is resolved? The answer to that is clearly of 80—it could be 84 or 85 for many—but at the end yes. Is the problem going to get worse? The answer to of the Parliament in which one becomes 80. That is that is clearly yes. the right proposal; that is what I would support. I have I echo and totally agree with the remarks of the seen other proposals suggesting that the parties should noble Lord, Lord Butler, in his somewhat apocalyptic attempt to maintain the party balance but have elections view as to what will happen after the next general among themselves as to who should be retired at the election. An incoming Government are bound to want end of the Parliament. That is not only impractical to rebalance the House of Lords. It is asking too much and would lead to all sorts of different attitudes being of any Prime Minister to say that he would be prepared taken by different people, but divisive. The proposal of to leave the House of Lords unbalanced, particularly an age limit of 80 in the Parliament in which a Peer if the number of Liberal Members of Parliament turns 80 has the merit of simplicity and fairness all declines and there are more than 100 Liberal Democrats round. I would certainly be happy for that proposal to sitting on the Benches of the House of Lords. That is be put forward as an alternative in the Clerk’s paper, not something that any Government will view with as my noble friend Lord Strathclyde suggests. equanimity or pleasure. He will want to do something Finally, on compensation, I have seen the arguments about it. After all, this is a legislative Chamber. We are in the Clerk’s paper that indicated, in the proposal he generally here not to advise the Government, but put forward, that there would be a saving in public to pass laws, in which case the Government have to get expenditure if modest compensation was given to their business through this House as well as through people who wished to retire. That paper had a lot of the House of Commons. To do that, any Government other ingenious ideas that would be well worth exploring, will want the House of Lords broadly to represent the but the argument about public opinion is very difficult political situation in the country at the time, and to defend on compensation, when people are here not therefore I think that the problem will get worse rather in an occupation in the normal way, but as a great than better. privilege. If we look for compensation for when people What can we do about it? It seems to me that there retire, I do not believe that that will help the image of are basically three alternatives. One is an age limit, the House. which the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, and various 283 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 284 other people have proposed. Secondly, people can be continuation of a nominated House with the sorts of persuaded to go, presumably through a scheme of problems that we are looking at in this debate or an voluntary retirement, the outlines of which at least are elected second Chamber, I know which side I would on the statute book. That, coupled with some sort of come down on. financial inducement, might produce a mad rush out of this Chamber on the part of many of our colleagues, 5.09 pm although personally I rather doubt that. Thirdly, the numbers can be reduced based on the service that Lord Jopling (Con): My Lords, it is a very great people have given. pleasure for me to follow the noble Lord who has just spoken. He and I have followed our careers for the I understand the superficial attraction of an age past 70 years, since we first met in the school classroom, limit—it is a simple way of dealing with the matter. and I am glad that he clearly is as well now as I feel. I However, it is brutal and blunt. It might be fair but I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Williams, on am not sure that it would be effective. A system based this timely debate. We need to discuss this issue and to on an appreciation of what people do in this House, move to a resolution at this time. Not only do we need how often they appear and how often they participate to reduce the number of Peers attending debates, as in the affairs of the House would be a much more the Motion states, but we need drastically to reduce sensible way of approaching any sort of scheme for a the number of Peers who have a right to attend. We reduction in numbers. need a permanent reduction in the number of Peers, which can be done only by primary legislation. I was Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab): I wonder whether not very happy with the suggestion by the noble Lord, my noble friend will give way. He mentioned the Lord Williams, of two-tier Peers or very keen on his Liberal Democrat Peers. Would he care to speculate suggestion of using the criterion of attendance as the on why no Liberal Democrat Peer is going to speak in key to membership. Attendance does not always reflect this debate? Why are they keeping their heads down usefulness. today? My United States friends die with laughter when I tell them that we have an upper House of almost Lord Richard: If I were a Liberal Democrat, I 850 Members. They say, “We in the United States manage would keep my head so low as to be totally invisible. very well with 100 in our upper House”. Of course, there My noble friend has answered his own question. I am are many differences but I believe that there is a lesson now a bit lost as to where I was. there. Unlike the noble Lord, Lord Richard, I strongly oppose having an elected House. For more than 12 years A noble Lord: Serves you right! I have advocated a scheme which I put together but which up to now not many people have taken seriously. Lord Richard: I think that I was getting near to the I take the opportunity to peddle it once more before end of what I was going to say. I wish to add two your Lordships because I believe that more than ever sentences. Yes, there is a problem. Yes, it needs resolution. my suggestion is worthy of close scrutiny. However, setting an age limit is perhaps a brutal way The problem that we are faced with, of course, is of dealing with the issue. I would far prefer it to be that when the hereditary Peers were disbarred from done on the basis of experience and on who does what coming, the Government of the day failed totally to and when. I still hold to a basic, almost trade union, reorganise this House. They were told repeatedly, “If we principle, which is that those who work are entitled to are going to throw out the hereditaries, we must reorganise remain in their jobs and those who do not work the House for the future”. We did not do that and now should perhaps be the ones to whom we say goodbye. we are paying the price. First, we need a cap set by My noble friend Lord Williams has produced a legislation. I do not mind what it is—perhaps, 400, scheme which, in its outline, conforms to that principle, 500 or something of that sort—but we need to bring and it is well worth looking at. It is useful that we are the number down in stages after each election towards that having this debate and it is right that this matter capped figure. A Parliament would start with whatever should go to the appropriate committee of the House. the cap is, but there should be flexibility for new blood The clerks are going to have to work extremely hard to to come in, as a number of noble Lords have already produce their options paper, but we all know that the suggested. Perhaps a limit of 5% or 10% more could clerks in this House are redoubtable and flexible come in during a Parliament but, after the subsequent individuals who can no doubt produce large quantities election, the total membership must be brought back to of paper when that is required, although it is probably the statutory cap figure. New Peerages could be created not required in this case. We do not want large quantities; but then the House should return to the cap. we want small quantities. We want a proper options I am strongly in favour of a substantial Cross-Bench paper, proper consideration by the committee and a presence. A figure of, say, 20%—I am happy to discuss quick report. One hopes that more time will be given either side of that—should be in statute, which would for the House to look at this issue again before the ensure that the Government of the day never has a general election. majority in this House. I find that a lot of people Finally, I want to say a word which goes back to outside have no conception that the last Labour where I started. I believe that the future of this House is Government had around only 30% of the total vote of as an elected second Chamber. I know that that is not the House. I shall come to how it can be done in a a popular view in this House and I am well aware from moment, but you must have an arrangement which my experiences in 2012 that it is not a view universally shows that this House is not and can never be the shared. However, faced with the alternative of the poodle of Government. 285 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 286

The key to this is that, after each general election, different to having an elected House—this is more or the membership of the House of Lords on party lines less what you would get if you had an elected House, should broadly reflect the result of the election which but this is a much better way of going about it. has just taken place. That might be done through the The third and final scenario— number of votes cast for each party or by the number of seats won. For each Parliament, this House would be made up of 80% party-political Peers who in general Lord Richard: The noble Lord has given both the would broadly—it does not have to be exact—reflect Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats some advice the membership of the other place or the votes cast in as to what they might do. Would he like to give his the election. own party some advice as to how to deal with UKIP? One of the difficulties, which I acknowledge, is that immediately after an election and before State Opening, Lord Jopling: If the UKIP vote at the next election which can always be put back by a week or two, the matches the Liberal vote—as the public opinion polls membership of this House would have to be reviewed suggest it might—it would mean that neither of them very quickly. I would prefer it to be done in the same would have very many Members down the corridor. way as the hereditary Peers did when the 92, or whatever But let us leave that just to the side for the moment. number it was, were elected. Colleagues in the House A third scenario is that it is not impossible, as I have know who contributes. I do not like an age limit, said to your Lordships before, that a new party could although I have to be careful what I say because only sweep to power. My old friend, the noble Lord, Lord three or four weeks ago I was 84. However, it is Richard, mentioned UKIP. I do not think that UKIP colleagues who know best those who contribute the will do it, but politicians are not popular creatures at most. the moment, and there is the opportunity for a new The question is this: what should we do about the party to sweep to power in this country at some time. composition of the parties in the House? One of the We have seen it happen in Turkey and in Italy in recent reasons I am suggesting this solution is because, in my years, with a new party suddenly appearing from view, the membership of this House does not begin to nowhere, and this House would look particularly stupid reflect the possible changes in the political scenario of if you had a Government with virtually no support in the country as a whole. Let me suggest three scenarios your Lordships’ House. in which the membership of this House could look These things can be done quickly; it is not impossible seriously unsatisfactory, and I hope that I will give no to do them. I have discussed this and circulated my offence to anyone or any party, because I am merely plan before. If any of my noble friends wish to see it, I using press comments which we are all aware of. should be very glad to send them a copy of the We have been told that at the next election, there solution for the construction of the House of Lords may be a collapse in the Labour vote in Scotland and which, as I say, I have been peddling for over 12 years. that a large number of Scottish nationalist Members could be elected to the other place. Let us say that they Lord Trefgarne (Con): My Lords, before my noble form a coalition with one of the other parties. They friend sits down, could he say what place he proposes have no representation in this place, and we would in his scheme for the 26 Bishops sitting in this House look very silly having no Scottish nationalists. at the present time?

Lord Maxton (Lab): Will the noble Lord give way? Lord Jopling: I once wrote a letter to the Times The Scottish National Party has been offered peerages years ago after we had a debate here on blasphemy. I again and again, but it has refused to take them. That remember suggesting in that letter that three right is why there are no members of the SNP in this House. reverend Prelates had come for, I think, Report stage: one disappeared before the vote and the other two voted in opposite Lobbies. I am not really sure quite Lord Jopling: I am well aware of that, but if they what I would suggest now, but I did suggest then that found themselves in government with Ministers down we were being overgenerous giving them 26 places. But at the other end of the corridor, it is inevitable that there are none here currently, so I think I had better they would need to have Ministers on the Government say no more. Front Bench here to speak for their party in your Lordships’ House. I think that that is obvious. 5.23 pm Let me put forward another scenario. We are told by the public opinion polls that the Liberal vote has Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (CB): My Lords, I seriously sunk. If that was to happen—I think it was thank the noble Lord, Lord Williams, for giving us the my noble friend Lord Strathclyde who referred to this opportunity to debate this very important topic. I also —and there was only a handful of Liberal Members in congratulate him on securing a debate that does not the House of Commons, this House would look have the usual constraints of time limits on the speeches. particularly stupid if it still had 103 Liberal Peers sitting I will come back to that, as I may come to regret it as I here simply because the arrangements for membership look down the list of speakers, but that is my initial of this place were not flexible. We must somehow thought. build a flexibility into the membership. I believe that, I have one regret, however, about the subject for the after each election, the way you can achieve that debate, which is that it focuses on what I regard as only flexibility is to pitch the party membership of the House one side of the problem: the size of the House. The to broadly reflect the views of the public. That is quite difficulty we have is that changing it—we have rehearsed 287 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 288 this well and I will not go into it again—is very and I think the most important for them, was that on difficult and, I have no doubt, will be very contentious. no account should I be tainted by the virus of party However, it seems to me that we have not debated politics. I was to be an independent Cross-Bencher. sufficiently the way in which we might be able to The third, which was probably just my own paranoia, adjust our procedures to deal with this fact and to was ensuring that I did not make social gaffes too begin to allow a better use of the talent that we have in often, so I avoided asking for three lumps of sugar in this place, perhaps—I throw this in as a possibility—by my cup of tea. I passed the test, apparently, and here a extending the use of committees with real powers to number of us are. I think there are about 50 of us now. carry out some of the work of this House. But there was a procedure. If you are a Cross-Bencher, you find that to raise a The important part of the procedure came next. supplementary in Question Time you have pretty well The interview was a two-part process so I asked what got to surprise God and the Bishops by coming in for was expected of me. I did not know and I wanted to be Prayers in order to be seated in the right sort of place. sure that the job was doable. Occasionally one is That is not sensible. Equally, if you wish to speak in a invited to take on posts—I am sure your Lordships all debate in which you believe you have some expertise, have been—but the job is not doable. I actually got you might well find that the list of speakers is so long very good advice from the sub-committee I met. The that there is the crass example of the two-minute good advice was, first, make sure you identify areas of speech. That is not good enough. Yes, most of what I interest and expertise on which you could make want to say can be said in a minute and a half—I shall contributions. Secondly, the hint was to stick to those, not do that just now but it can be done—but often if but that was up to me because freedom of thought was there are real points of issue, and that has applied to part of the deal. Thirdly, I should make sure that I was some of the debates in which many of us have taken here on the right occasions—not chalking up a sufficient part, the constraint on time is a great difficulty. number of attendances to be allowed in next time there was a ballot but taking part in the debates on Is there no way of beginning to deal with that? I can which I was thought to have something to contribute. think of several ways, none of which I will put forward I thought, “Yes, that is doable. I can do this”. My now because they will be shot down but they are worth training in philosophy immediately reminded me that detailed discussion, including the use of a more extensive Immanuel Kant, whom I believe to be the greatest committee system; for example, education is one of European philosopher, formulated the premise that the areas in which my own background gives me some “ought” implies “can”. If I ought to do that, then expertise but there is no committee on education allowed surely I should be able to do it. That is partly up to me, in this House. Equally, we can take some of the Bills in but it is partly up to the structures of this place. Committee next door but there could be a much greater pre-legislative scrutiny process, as applies in What I want to say in this debate is very precise. My some areas of our business. I throw these in simply as worry is that, with the way that things are moving in suggestions. It is a two-part issue: size and adjusting this House, where we have not adjusted procedure procedures to the size because undoubtedly we will sufficiently to take account of its size, it may well be not reduce the numbers significantly within a short the case that we cannot make the contributions for period of time. which we were brought here. If one is to slim us down, there is a special issue for the Cross-Benchers; I was Those who are looking to the next election should glad to hear that mentioned, not least by the noble consider the worries of the noble Lord, Lord Butler, Lord, Lord Strathclyde. However, the broader issue is: about conspiracies here. If one looks at the figures for can we do this, and does the way in which the House the two years following the previous election, the net operates allow us to do it? My plea is that, in any numbers in this House increased by 90. That tells us further discussion, we set our minds to the questions what is going to happen after the next election, especially of procedures that relate to the size of this place. with more parties in play. That inevitably will increase the number of those hoping and reasonably wanting 5.31 pm to come into the House. Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Lab): My Lords, it is a Many of your Lordships who have come through pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, other routes will perhaps not know much about the because he has introduced a different element to this scrutiny that some of us Cross-Benchers went through. debate by referring to adjusting procedures. That is When the Appointments Commission was set up in certainly something to which the House will need to the previous big revolution here in the House of Lords, return either on the back of this Motion or independently it was a complicated procedure and eventually 16 of us of it. were nominated in 2001 and introduced to the House. Like others, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Williams, As part of my involvement in this, I filled in a nine-page for introducing this debate. Any debate that is aimed form on request from the committee, I nominated at improving the workings of this House has to be referees and I even went and had what was initially welcome. There is much that can be done and without referred to as a conversation—although in fact it was primary legislation, although I have to say to the noble more like an interview—and in that interview there Lord that I have severe reservations about the notion were three things that the committee wanted to establish, that he has found the silver bullet. I am not sure that as far as I could see. his system would work quite as he hopes. The first was that I had a background of relevant I want to mention—it may be a question of declaring experience—I could match the claims and the pro an interest—A Programme for Progress, the report formas sent in and what my referees said. The second, that the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, referred to. It 289 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 290 was drawn up by a group of Labour Peers and contains I am also worried about the idea of frozen proportions: some short-term as well as some long-term measures that the basis for future composition should be the for improving the working of this House and considering proportions of Members at present. I have some concern its long-term future. I co-chaired that group, along about the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord with Lord Grenfell, who took his own advice prematurely Jopling, of a changeover after every election. That and retired from this House and is now rather well in kind of churn would not necessarily attract people to exile. I am sure that we all send him our best wishes. come into this House in the first place and to build up the experience to make the contributions that perhaps The starting point for this debate is the numbers in they could make. There is therefore a difficulty there, this House. It is a concern that has been mentioned as there is with the proposal of the noble Lord, Lord many times today and many times in this House MacGregor, for internal elections. As a woman from during recent months and years. There is general the north, a category that is not overrepresented in agreement that the size of the House is too great. It is this House, I would perhaps not be worried if we had clear that it has been the Prime Minister’s intention to allocations that way, but I would not want there to be put more political nominees in here and to seek to get divisions within parties of people who have to work near to a majority that has caused that rise in the together long-term to make the most of the opportunities numbers. I am in the strange position of being a in this House. That might not be helpful. Therefore, I former Chief Whip who agrees with a former Conservative do not like the churn that would be supposed to Chief Whip that it is not a good idea for any political happen in that instance. party to seek a majority in this House. This House works best and is most respected when it is clear that There are things that can be done to improve the no political party dominates in this Chamber. The workings of this House without the great constitutional Government’s attempt to improve their position far reform such as is talked about from time to time. We beyond what is justified has not only created practical should get rid of the hereditary by-elections; indeed, I problems in terms of the number of people in the would go further and have some primary legislation to Chamber and the pressure on speaking times, with end hereditary Peers’ rights to be in this House. Not two-minute speaking limits and things of this kind, all would agree, but I think that many people would. but it will undermine the credibility of this House, I listened with care to what the noble Lords, Lord which would be most unfortunate. It is true that this Butler and Lord MacGregor, said about financial House will always need refreshing, but I do not think inducements: that the figures show that a modest that that has been the motivation behind the numbers inducement could be of benefit to the taxpayer and that we have seen coming into it. that the Treasury might therefore accept it. I can see The noble Lord, Lord Williams, suggested that a the logic of that, but politically it is a non-starter. Other Chamber of 400 would be about right. The Labour people may disagree and it may be worth looking at in document to which I referred suggested 450, and I the future, but it would be difficult to sell to the public. think that the Joint Committee that the noble Lord, That leads me to the issue of retirement—the noble Lord Richard, chaired also suggested 450, taking into Lord, Lord MacGregor, mentioned what we said in account the committee work that we do at present. our report. We looked at this very carefully and we However, I think the one thing that we all agree on is had people who were over 80 on that committee. We that the House of Lords, as the second Chamber, suggested that the concept of a working Peer is something should be smaller than the House of Commons. That that we should all take on board. When we respond to is a basic principle that we have to address and accept. the Writ of Summons at the beginning of a Parliament, I have to say to the noble Lord, Lord Williams, that we should do so with the intention of giving a commitment I think his mechanism is flawed. He said that there is to work and participate in this House for the full term no element of compulsion in his suggestion. He hinted of that Parliament. Whether we like it or not, we have that the expenses regime might be used to make sure fixed-term Parliaments at the moment. I do not like that people were not rewarded for coming here if they them and hope that they will go, but we have them so were not on the esteemed list. As someone who lives we should give a commitment to work for that whole some way from London, I think that would penalise Parliament. Members of this House from the regions, as does the We rejected the idea of, “You are 80, therefore existing expenses regime, and would not be healthy for you go on your birthday—party or not”. However, we the mix we need to make this House most effective. said that it would help Members plan ahead if we Our report recommended that for those who respond introduced a system whereby they step down at the to the Writ of Summons at the beginning of a Parliament end of the Parliament in which they turn 80. The there should in future be a minimum attendance level, easing of that situation bears further consideration. I so that people could be “working Peers”and contributing. hope it is something we can look at in future. Political We must not think of contribution as simply being the parties could also voluntarily agree to more transparent equivalent of attendance—that is rather dangerous. criteria in their nominations. The noble Lord, Lord The noble Lord, Lord Richard, talked about it being Sutherland, just outlined the procedure that he went the work that matters. It is participation; it is speaking; through. The fact that there is no procedure in terms it is voting—there we have another measure of how of political appointees is something that could be assiduous people are in what they do in this House. It changed, and could be done so voluntarily. would be wrong to give the impression that it is only However, I hope we do not see a great new influx of turning up here that matters. Therefore, I am worried political appointees. I suspect that I am wrong and that a rather simplistic formula might cause problems. that it will not be possible to achieve this, but I would 291 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 292 like to see some restraint. I would like to see a moratorium to absorb some of the more rebellious Members of on political appointments in future, especially as we another place into its culture of reasoned debate rather are now coming up to the manifesto period. We keep than point-scoring, and of cross-party respect, friendship hearing that all three parties will say, one way or and so on. I think that we all agree that the House another, “Get rid of the House of Lords”. If all three cannot go on growing as it has been doing. parties want to get rid of this House, perhaps they I spoke of the number of active Members having should not nominate new Members to it. I am not sure increased. Others have made this point. Of course, that, when we have four months of constant campaigning, there were far more Members when I first came to a manifesto will be read or raised by anyone, but there your Lordships’ House before the 1999 reforms. However, are issues we have to consider. many of them were far less active. There are various The way to get through to what we should be doing reasons for that but it is partly because the nature of a long-term is obvious and inevitable: that is, to have a peerage and hence of this House has changed progressively constitutional convention that can make sure that we over the past few decades. Being “raised to the peerage” do not have a whole series of piecemeal constitutional is, we all recognise, both an honour and a job. The job reforms that do not hang together and which, in the is as a legislator, watching and guiding the Government. end, lead to unintended consequences. That would be The job element has become much more emphasised. very dangerous to good government and certainly to These days, most new Peers selected for membership accountability. As for short-term measures, I accept of the House either by the main political parties or by entirely what the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, said, the Appointments Commission, as was suggested just that he could smell a conspiracy here. It is very likely now, are grilled—that is not too sharp a word—as to that the Procedure Committee may intend to look at whether they will be able to play a full part if they are these proposals but if so I urge that it also looks at the appointed. That is from the point of view of both their debate that took place on 19 June on the Labour expertise and also how much time they will have Party’s proposals, where there was a great deal of available and so on. Therefore, most arrive here having consensus that many of those issues should be looked assured those who helped to select them that they can at in great detail. That is the way forward because we and will work hard at the job. They duly do so when should not have knee-jerk reactions one way or another they get here, working much harder than many Peers to some of the issues raised. did in years gone by. So we have these difficulties flowing from the larger numbers and greater activity Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB): I apologise for of Members. The problem is how we get to a substantially intervening but there is one question that the noble smaller figure. Baroness might be able to inform the House on. Did Of the various solutions, I am not attracted to term Mr Miliband consult the Labour reform group before limits or age limits. We have daily examples here of saying he would like to see a senate in this House? how either would weaken the House by the removal of experienced Members. We can all think of examples Baroness Taylor of Bolton: Noble Lords might be from all parties. The first suggestion usually made interested to know that the Labour group met with the when this comes up is that fewer Members should be party leader on more than one occasion. We talked to appointed—“Pull up the ladder”, as it were, and, “We him about our proposal for a constitutional convention. have enough”. However, can that potential solution—in We are very pleased indeed that he said that issues of the form of a moratorium as suggested by the noble that kind will be referred to a constitutional convention. Baroness, Lady Taylor, just now—survive when the If we could get other parties to agree that that was the coming general election seems likely to produce such a way forward, we could have a time limit on how long different result in detail and maybe overall from that that constitutional convention was to sit. We could in the past? After all, this House will have to reflect at write a remit that could be very tight and specific. I least to some degree the new political situation that really believe that that would be the way to ensure that will result from the general election. In any case, the we do not get into the constitutional chaos that would House needs new Members. Many new Members make come about unless we look at all these issues together a valuable contribution. Each of us would judge slightly in the round. differently who makes the best contribution and who is less satisfactory, but we need new blood—as has already been said. 5.44 pm We come to the proposal of the noble Lord, Lord Lord Cope of Berkeley (Con): My Lords, I am sure Williams of Elvel. His starting point was the necessity that the thought behind this Motion so well moved by or desirability of finding a solution which could be the noble Lord, Lord Williams of Elvel, will have wide implemented by this House without the necessity for support in your Lordships’ House. Most if not all of statute. I must say that I agree with that element. If we us regret the consequences of the great increase in the can find a solution that this House can implement, number of active Members of the House. Those that is desirable. Part of the answer may indeed be, as consequences of course include: time limits on speeches others have suggested, modifications to our ways of that curtail debate, making it much more difficult to doing things, but I do not think that the full answer have a proper debate across the House; the competitive will lie there, although improvements may be made. nature of Oral Questions; the pressure on facilities, particularly on days when the House is very full; and, A key element of the proposal of the noble Lord, perhaps less obviously but definitely, the weakening Lord Williams, is, after all, that once the proportions through overload of the House’s long-appreciated ability have been decided by his method or some variation of 293 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 294 it, Members would voluntarily go along with it: that existing Members remained in the House would lie those who were, as it were, required to resign or take with the other Members of the party. It would reflect leave of absence would indeed do so. I am not sure what the voting of the nation while continuing some of the would happen to those who resisted the blandishments essential and desirable characteristics of your Lordships’ to retire or to stop coming and insisted on coming. House at present. The writ would apply and they would presumably still All those suggestions need further consideration be able to come. I do not think that this House would and further detail to be worked out, so I very much be able to stop them from answering the writ if they support what my noble friend Lord Strathclyde said insisted on doing so, although their colleagues did not about referring the matter to the Procedure Committee wish it as a result of the arrangements made. with an options paper. Clearly, the options should Of course, the House prides itself on its self-discipline include the proposals put forward so well by the noble and self-regulation. After all, we can already volunteer Lord, Lord Williams of Elvel, this afternoon. Time is to leave the House. We have had the announcement of the essence. If it can be done without legislation, as today of Lord Jenkin of Roding taking retirement under the noble Lord, Lord Williams, suggested, the House the new arrangements. Lord Grenfell did so a few months should do its best to do that and implement it to show ago. I do not think that many of us would have thought that the self-discipline of the House extends even to that either of them had come to the end of their useful this major consideration of the future of the House, contribution to your Lordships’ House, but they clearly because it is necessary to reduce the size of your felt so. I hope that each of us will realise when it is Lordships’ House. time for us to retire. The time will come for each of us. Of course, the grim reaper may arrive before we have 5.57 pm come to that conclusion, or before we should have come to that conclusion, but we are getting older. This way Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab): My Lords, I to reduce the number by voluntary retirement is beginning thank my noble friend Lord Williams for allowing us to have effect. A dozen Peers have so far resigned to have this debate. I have worked with him for more under the various arrangements available, and another than 20 years, I share an office with him and I know 50 or so have taken leave of absence. Without them, the deep passion which he holds for this House. Equally, the situation would be considerably worse. We should I know the hours that he has put in thinking about this not ignore that in considering the way forward. issue and preparing for this debate. We are all indebted to him for that. I also hope that he feels vindicated by If legislation is available, the solution put forward the quality of the debate. It is interesting that it has by my noble friend Lord Jopling some years ago and really been a debate of the House: the arguments have repeated by him very clearly today is the best way gone across the House and around it. We have seen the forward. It would require legislation and it would House at its best in that sense. require a slight delay of the House before State Opening; We are indebted to my noble friend Lord Williams but, particularly when there is a change of government for the debate. He has highlighted a critical issue at a general election, the speed with which the whole facing the House but, as the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, machine is supposed to turn around and point in said, this may not be the only way to tackle it. We are another direction—I speak of government as well as facing a problem; of that there is no doubt. I must of Parliament—is hasty by comparison with other admit that I think that there are shortcomings in my countries. To take the American example, the election noble friend’s proposals. I know that this view is not takes place in November but the new President does shared by many in the House, but I think that it is not take office until well into the new year. That is dangerous for us to say that we are going to act, much more common in other places. “without recourse to primary legislation”. My noble friend’s solution draws on the immediate That is a dangerous precedent, and we should not be precedent of the cull of hereditary Peers in 1999 and stating it nor doing it. While I am on that issue, the the longer-term precedent of the removal of the Irish noble Lord, Lord Cope, raised a point which I have heard Representative Peers which took place in 1920. From expressed informally. When my noble friend Lord the point of view of the House, the system used Williams winds up, perhaps he can inform the House in 1999 worked well. We finished up with 90 elected whether I have the wrong end of the stick in this Members, whom I think were the best, broadly speaking. respect. Can we actually without primary legislation Of course, they were topped up by a number of stop people who have accepted the writ attending the hereditary Peers who were given life peerages, so the House, or does the reference to acting without primary number in the end was more than 90. The system of legislation refer only to not paying attendance allowance selection worked well because Members were selected and travel expenses? I have heard that that is one way by the different party groups, for the most part, but of interpreting this provision, and if that were the also because we know those who make the most case, it would be a severe disadvantage to anyone who effective contribution. That was a good thing to do. lives without the surrounds of London. Perhaps my However, I entirely acknowledge, as my noble friend noble friend will inform the House on how he understands Lord Strathclyde said, that it was very unpleasant at that issue. the time—particularly so for those involved, the hereditary Peers, as opposed to life Peers such as me. Size is clearly a problem, and we are faced with having to try to deal with it because we are not a The advantage of my noble friend Lord Jopling’s directly, democratically elected Chamber. That is stating solution is that the House would reflect the most the obvious. The Grim Reaper, to whom the noble recent election result and that the choice of whether Lord, Lord Cope, referred, operates with a different 295 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 296 logic and momentum from those applying to the electorate. It could be seen as a very dangerous precedent. I am The electorate not only gives the other House legitimacy not saying that it would be, but it is a precedent that but determines its composition. Most Chambers in we should try to avoid. the world—an overwhelming number—do not have to That view appears to be shared by all the major wrestle with this issue because they are democratically political parties. They have all made that clear, and I elected. We therefore have to come up with a means of expect that in the manifestos—certainly in those of trying to deal with this difficult problem. the three major parties—there will be a reference to I start from the basis, to which reference has already some form of body to be set up to try to achieve an been made, that we do not challenge the primacy of overview and have a look at our democratic institutions the House of Commons. I believe that we have perhaps as a whole. Whether that will be a royal commission or held the respect of the general public better than the a constitutional convention, I do not know. The election other House has. Part of that is due to the quality of a is just over 120 days away, and we would be ill advised number of really eminent people who sit on these to press ahead now. I understand the logic of what my Benches and participate in our debates. I spent 20-odd noble friend Lord Williams is trying to present, but I years in the House of Commons and the one thing think that his premise is wrong. There is a danger not that I find incredible about this Chamber is the only that it would be misunderstood by the general public contributions made in some of the medical debates—when but that we would alienate many Members of the I can understand them. It is just like a brilliant tutorial. other House by trying to act—and trying to act alone. That is due to the brilliance of the individuals on all sides and all Benches who participate in our debates 6.06 pm and bring their wealth of experience to this House and share it with the rest of the world. Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Clark, and I However, I come back to my noble friend Lord am most grateful, as everyone else is, to the noble Williams’ main way of determining who will sit in this Lord, Lord Williams, for giving us the opportunity for House. He is looking at attendance. However, the this debate. I do not think that he has produced a eminent people to whom I have referred are in great silver bullet; it is more of a grenade. I have a horrible demand elsewhere: sometimes they are doing heart feeling that others may pull the pin out of that grenade operations; sometimes they are in other parts of the and that the consequences may not be quite what he world explaining how they understand their own subject. had hoped for. That means that they are not here. This House would I have been in this House for 15 years, which I think therefore lose if we were to determine who can sit here was the term set by the royal commission in which the only on the basis of attendance. Other things, such as noble Lord, Lord Butler, served and which the noble Questions, committee work and other contributions, Lord, Lord Wakeham, chaired. After 15 years in this ought to be taken into account as well. place, which is half a year longer than I was in the House of Commons, I am just beginning to work out One other point that slightly concerns me arises how it works. I am not sure whether 15 years is long from another strength of this House, and the noble enough for me but it may be long enough of me for Baroness, Lady Taylor, referred to it. People travel your Lordships. I really love this place because, as I here from all over the United Kingdom to participate think I have said before to the House, as I get older I in our debates. If we were to base this judgment on find that I am less and less certain about many of the attendance, success would be so much easier for those things that I was certain about. In this House, I find who live in London. This morning I had a four-and-a-half that if you are uncertain about things and they are hour train journey from my home to London. If I debated, it is a very good way of setting your mind lived 15 minutes away down the District Line, it would straight because people speak according to their beliefs take me that long to get here. There is a much greater and convictions. onus on those who live outside London to attend this House. I speak as somebody who has had an attendance One of the things that worries me about the proposals over the first three years of this Parliament of well in of the noble Lord, Lord Williams, is that they might excess of 80%, so this is not special pleading. I am just give more power to the Whips. As my noble friend the stating the obvious. I do not believe that judging a Chief Whip will testify, I am not always entirely in line person’s contribution to this House by his attendance with what he would like me to do. This is one of the is the only way of getting the best people to attend and things that has gone wrong in the other place. Some be Members of the House. years ago, I was in a taxi and the taxi driver said to me, “Do you miss that place?”. I said, “The place I miss no I come back to my principal objection—the reference longer exists”, and he said, “No, I mean the House of to avoiding primary legislation. I am concerned about Commons”—he obviously thought that I had gone the state of democracy in our country, and when I say completely gaga. I said, “I know that you mean the “state”, I mean the regard in which it is held by the House of Commons”, but I meant that the House of electorate. This should be a matter of concern to Commons that I remember was a completely different everyone involved in public life, of whatever party or place. I now see Members who are directed into what of no party. I know that it is a concern. However, they say. From all parties, they go on programmes and although we are a self-regulating House—and perhaps repeat the same fatuous lines. The result is that we now there are other ways of dealing with the problems, as have an electorate who are absolutely tearing their the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, has suggested—that hair out with rage at what they regard as the breakdown should not stretch to determining our own composition. of the political process. 297 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 298

Whatever is said about this place, and there are lots The coalition agreement, which contains the of rude things said about it, it is not one where people extraordinary and ridiculous commitment that we should are in fear of saying what they think. That is because I alter the size of the House to reflect the proportions know that there is nothing that the Chief Whip can do elected at a general election, is mathematically illiterate. to me—nothing which I would care about. I do not It would mean an exponential increase in the size of want anything from him and I know that I have been the House—I do not know, perhaps some of our friends appointed for life. One of the joys of this place is the on the Liberal Benches can help me with this—or does independence that comes from having that appointment. it mean that, if at the next election there is a great I think that my noble friend Lord Deben would say reduction in the number of Liberal MPs and the Liberal that he was in the same camp as me, except perhaps vote, colleagues here will be applying for a leave of even naughtier than me from time to time. absence? I think not. It is an unworkable proposal, and I think that it comes from the Deputy Prime Minister Having said all that, though, if we do not put our who is absolutely determined to destroy this place. He own House in order, I fear that others will do it for us, is doing so, too: he refused to allow us, as a self-regulating and a great institution would be lost at the very House, to bring forward the reforms that were contained moment when I believe this is about the only part of in the Steel Bill, which was more and more watered our constitution, as far as Parliament is concerned, down, and talked about not having “reform-lite”. To that is working relatively well. The problems actually me it smacks of Caligula appointing his horse as lie in the other place. What are you to make of a consul in order to destroy the institution; they are Deputy Prime Minister—I am sorry that there are no deliberately allowing this House to be more and more Liberals speaking in this debate who could defend ridiculous, and it behoves us to take more action to him—who describes this place as a thousand Peers change that. who get £300 every day for doing nothing? That is such a travesty. It absolutely plays to the gallery and I therefore welcome the proposal that the Procedure reinforces a view that is damaging. I would not mind Committee should look at possible changes that we that kind of ill informed criticism from the other place can make ourselves. However, the most important if the other place were doing its job, but it is not. We change that we can make is how we ourselves behave on this side of the House had a manifesto commitment in this House. We have to take a decision: are we too that we would end the automatic timetabling of Bills. old? Are we not able to put in the time? Are we not Presumably, that has been a casualty of the coalition. making a proper contribution? Should we really have Because of that automatic timetabling, this House is claimed allowances on that occasion? These are the overwhelmed by the volume of legislation that needs things that are down to the personal responsibility of to be dealt with, so we need Peers in numbers to deal Members. The other thing that needs to be done, while with it. we are talking about reform, is that the other place and the Government should show more respect for There have been various proposals to reduce the size this House. For example, Ministers in this House of the House. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Williams, should be paid, not expected to find their remuneration suggested that it should be reduced to around 400. either from the allowances or from their own pockets. The Library Note on attendance says that there has On the issue of retirement, I would like to mention been a bit of an increase: in 2013-14 the average daily one story. As many noble Lords will know, in her latter attendance was 497, while in 2009 it was under 400. days when Baroness Thatcher used to come to this House, We already have an active House of 400 or 500. That is she was increasingly frail. One day I said to her, “Margaret, attendance, by the way, which is not the same thing as you know, you don’t have to come to this House so an active House. That is people turning up and claiming often. You’ve done your duty by your country; you’ve their allowances, or turning up and voting and perhaps been Prime Minister. People love to see you but you going away. The actual active involvement in the House mustn’t feel you’ve got to come in”, whereupon she set is considerably less than that. upon me and said, “Michael, when we were appointed I do not think that the problem is that we have too to this House, it became our duty to come here. It’s many people participating, although I entirely accept our duty to do so until the day we die. Now, how often the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, do you come here?”. I think that that sense of obligation that perhaps we need to look at our procedures. You is being released by the introduction of the procedure do not actually need to limit speeches to two minutes that, although I regret to see him retire, the noble in a debate if you make more time for the debate, or if Lord, Lord Jenkin, has taken advantage of today. Let you alter your procedures so that people cannot put us see how far that innovation will bring about change. their name down right until the last minute. I wonder There are ideas that are worth looking at, such as if we might take a leaf out of some of the good things ending the hereditary by-elections. I agree with my noble that have happened in the other place since I left it, friend Lord Jopling that there should be a cap on the such as the control of the business being more in the size of the House. I do not know how we would do hands of the House than in the hands of the Whips, or this, but I think there ought to be a stronger Appointments indeed whether we should look at whether the question Commission that made sure that appointments to this of how many committees we have should be more in place were seen to be sensible; that would be important the hands of the House. Perhaps we might even elect for the protection of the political parties as well as of the Chairman of Committees, as they have done in the the reputation of this House. In response to the noble other place—I can see that the Chief Whip is beginning Lord, Lord Butler, I think there has been a conspiracy to think of something that he can do to me. Still, we to make this House look ridiculous by people who need to look at our procedures. wish to destroy it. 299 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 300

Lastly, while we are on the subject of reforms to “In recent weeks, I have been approached by a number of noble this House, I know I should not mention this because Lords from all parts of the House asking, sometimes with some no doubt I will be mocked for doing so, but the size of asperity, why I am retiring. After all, I am getting on a bit and I realise that, but I have two answers; one is very short and the the House adds to pressures on facilities. Whoever is other is slightly longer. The short one is that after 50 years in running the catering facilities, though, really ought to Parliament—a number of noble Lords have already made reference get real and recognise that the catering exists to service to that—and at the age of 88, I feel that I have done enough. I this House, rather than the House being a franchise have done what I can offer, and it is best to bow out and let others that is given in order to run the catering. For example, carry on. being told that you cannot book in the tea room, as The slightly longer answer is that, if this House is to continue the noble Baroness, Lady Oppenheimer-Barnes, told to perform its hugely important functions in the running of this country, I totally believe that there has to be a constant infusion me the other day, unless you are there at 3.30 pm when of new blood introduced into the House, with people who have actually you want to be in the Chamber for Questions, current experience and whose experience of business or whatever indicates how that has gone wrong. There is also field they have operated in is completely up to date”.—[Official the issue of facilities being closed down so that there is Report, 16/12/14; col. 141.] enormous pressure on the remaining facilities. It is down I really agree. to us ourselves to get a grip and reorganise our affairs to take account of the reality of where we are now. Lord Tugendhat (Con): Surely it is not inconsistent to have both people of some considerable age and an 6.17 pm infusion of new blood. If we look at the United States, the new president of the Federal Reserve took office at Lord Blair of Boughton (CB): My Lords, I promise the age of 68. Many people commented on the fact not to speak about the catering department. It is a that she was the first woman, but there was very little great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, comment in the United States about her age. If Hillary particularly as at last I may have found someone in the Clinton should become President of the United States, House who can tell me how it works, which he claimed she will enter the White House at the age of 69. People to know. age at different paces. I have a personal friend who is I am in agreement with the direction of travel put chairman and chief executive of one of the largest forward by the noble Lord, Lord Williams, but I want banks in the United States and is 80. I am not suggesting to concentrate on his proposal regarding the 75% that that is ideal, but an infusion of new talent and age mechanism being chosen in relation to past attendance, are not incompatible. first on a point of principle and then on two matters of detail. My principal, and principled, point is that Lord Blair of Boughton: I agree with the noble attendance is not enough to justify a weighting of 75% Lord. I was suggesting not that we should lay down in whatever selection takes place. It is also important specific ages, but that age should have the same relevance that the mechanism for that selection must have a clear in the selection of the make-up of the House as the connection with both the overall representativeness of importance that we put on ethnicity and gender. There the Chamber and, as the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor will always be exceptions. I am not suggesting a of Pulham Market, put it, the recency of the experience compulsory age limit, but as the House reforms itself from which individual Members inform the debates in it would want to be in position to demonstrate that it your Lordships’ House. reflected the general make-up of the population. At One thing that matters is how this place appears to the moment, it is heavily weighted towards the older the electorate, and that, as others have said, brings us end of the population and, if we use attendance only, to the vexed question of age. As a callow youth of 61, I we may well end up with a reformed House that it is do not dissemble when I say that I have been deeply even more reflective of an older group of people than impressed by the contributions of many Members of it is at the moment. the House much older than me. However, can attendance I now turn to two detailed concerns. I am not sure alone justify the retention of the situation at present, that the noble Lord, Lord Williams, is being fair in his in which the average age of the Members of this House proposal that all four major groupings should be yesterday was 70—these statistics are from the House of equally reduced to just below 53% of their current Lords Library, and I am grateful for them—146 Members number. According to the House of Lords Library, were aged between 75 and 80, 101 Members between between May 2010 and December 2014, the number of 80 and 85, and 73 Members 85 and over? Can attendance Members taking party whips increased by 85, or about alone be justified, were age to be completely ignored, 15%, whereas the number of Cross-Benchers fell by as an indicator of the relevancy of experience of ordinary four. It does not seem to me that we should start from lives? I am not suggesting a blanket ban on a certain a position that each grouping is reduced to 53% of its age, but I cannot believe that any future arrangement current position if the Cross Benches are not the would not specify appropriate measures to ensure that problem in terms of the increase that has been so a reformed House reflected the citizenry of the United much commented upon. Kingdom in terms of gender and ethnicity, so why should Lastly, I suggest that the proposal by the noble Lord, it not in some terms reflect the age of the population? Lord Williams, that attendance, if it is to be judged, Before I get into terrible trouble for this temerity, let should be judged across the lifetime of the previous me call in aid the speech made last month to mark his Parliament needs careful thought for new arrivals, retirement by Lord Jenkin of Roding, a speech which taking account not only of their date of Introduction was well received on all sides of the House. He said but of how quickly they have been able to make the that he had responded to questions about why he was necessary adjustment to their working life to become a retiring as follows: working Peer, particularly those who have not previously 301 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 302 been politicians. For instance, I came into this House of some of the subjects I talk about. At that point, I in 2010. I was already contracted to work overseas in came in here feeling that I had the answer to most of the United States and India for a considerable period the world’s problems; now I am not even sure what the in the next two years, and it was with great difficulty world’s problems are, let alone the answers. that I was able to attend the House as much as I The other point about a full-time requirement in wanted. If we are going to go with the idea of attendance, any sense is that it will further restrict membership to a “best two years” rule might be an improvement. those within the M25. Last time we debated this, I was That would also deal with periods of significant illness inelegant enough to refer to the expenses system. I and bereavement for all Members. challenge anyone to defend a system where you pay This is complicated, but it is necessary. However, somebody from Chelsea the same allowance that you something has to be done, and I look forward to the pay somebody from Orkney. It is manifestly ludicrous further debates and discussions ahead, provided that and unfair, and I bitterly regret withdrawing an the outcome at each Parliament is to produce a revising amendment I had at the time which would have made Chamber with a proper balance of long experience in it £250 and £350, depending on residence, which I your Lordships’ House and recent experience in the would now alter to £225 and £375 because of the cost world outside Westminster. of living in London. The fact, to which my noble friend Lord Clark alluded, is that people who come 6.25 pm from outside London bear a huge personal expense, Lord Gordon of Strathblane (Lab): My Lords, like which is much less for people who live in London. other Peers, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Williams It is also important that all noble Lords have referred on securing this debate. I suppose it is also relevant to to a degree of urgency. The reason for that urgency is congratulate the Government on making time available an increase in the intake, yet nobody has suggested for it. If I could recall exactly what the noble Lord, that we do something about the intake. I am not Lord Strathclyde, said, I know I would be much better suggesting that we freeze it; that would be unrealistic. off simply repeating it because it was a lot more However, surely even to reduce our numbers we need elegant than giving vent to the slight vein of paranoia to know the maximum number of Peers which a Prime I have that there might be a conspiracy among the Minister of the day can appoint—otherwise, frankly, three major parties to create a stitch-up here to try to it is a recipe for the entire House to be wiped out and rush something through before the election. I agree replaced in its entirety by new Peers. What Prime with my noble friend Lord Clark. In this matter, any Minister would resist the temptation? Let us be quite attempt to do something before the election would be clear: we have to do something about the intake. You doomed to failure. cannot curb a Prime Minister’s power totally, but you Having congratulated my noble friend Lord Williams, could put some limit on it. I do not care how high the I will say that I disagree with him on both his target of figure is, but we need to know what we are dealing 400 and his methodology in reaching it. Why 400? It is with. quite interesting that he referred to the last time we There is also another way around it—and again, had 400, which was in 2008-09. We had an average one must acknowledge that some people accept a daily attendance of 400, but at that point we had an peerage for the title and regard coming to this House actual membership of 704. If we are going to achieve as an unfortunate concomitant duty, while others genuinely it with a membership of 400 this time, it implies come for the job and wear the title rather lightly. We having a different sort of Peer. It implies having full-time could easily distinguish between these two and create a Peers who do not have the current experience that the class of Peers who are not entitled to sit in Parliament. noble Lord, Lord Blair, referred to but are full time, as They would not miss it because they do not want to do politicians in the House of Commons have become, it. That would still leave the Prime Minister free to and the House of Lords would become a much poorer award peerages that did not carry implications for the place. With the greatest respect to the noble Baroness, size of this House. Lady Taylor, and the committee chaired by Lord Grenfell, Recognising, however, that you cannot do it all by I also disagree with the Labour suggestion of 450. I controlling the intake, we have to achieve some kind of see no logic whatever in the House of Lords being cull. I am tempted to say that perhaps those who do smaller than the House of Commons. There is nothing not believe in an appointed House should perhaps magic about it. leave it. That would not produce a great stampede and If the House of Lords is part-time, as in my view it reduce our numbers greatly, and it would also mean should be, arguably it could be demonstrated losing people such as my noble friend Lord Richard, mathematically that it should be a larger House than which I do not want to happen. However, one could the House of Commons. There is a case for having get rid of non-attendees. I accept the caution that it is active people rotating depending on their interest in not a simple question of attendance, and that that the subject. My noble friend Lord Clark referred to could be refined, but if we have to achieve some medical debates. We do not see interested Members reduction in numbers—and most noble Lords seem to here every day. They would not have any medical feel that we need that—let us at least try it. Let us get experience if they were here every day, because in rid of noble Lords who do not come and do not want medicine as in everything else, the shelf life of knowledge to come. I accept that it would not affect daily attendance, is very short. I am fully aware that I am of less use to because they do not come here, but it would affect the the House now than I was 10 years ago—not because I numbers and would get rid of the jibes that we have a am 10 years older but because I am 10 years further on bigger membership than the Chinese National People’s from having an active job where I had direct experience Congress. 303 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 304

One of the reasons for my paranoia about the That means that we need quite a significant number of leadership of the three parties, whom I do not trust as people if the different areas of expertise are to have a far as I could throw them on this issue, is that quite a sufficient pool to draw upon. lot of press articles over the Christmas Recess were In addition, the question of where we come from—the distinctly unhelpful to this House and came from point about regional balance—is also important. I am absolutely nowhere. I begin to think that somebody is one of those who live within about 20 minutes of the softening up the electorate before they say, “Let’s House, although on the Jubilee line rather than the finally deal with the problem of the House of Lords—after District line, which another noble Lord mentioned. I all, we all had it in our manifestos”. The fact is that the recognise that the present system places considerable electorate rejected the manifestos—but we do not pay burdens on those who come from far away which are any attention to that. If we put it in the manifestos, it not placed on me. It is important to try to ensure that must happen. we have a system whereby we are able to call on a The attendance figure of 60%, which the Labour sufficient number of people from different parts of the group under my noble friend Lady Taylor recommended, country, regardless of the difficulties that they face is a very high bar, particularly for people who come which people like me do not. Therefore to make numbers from outside London, which would reduce the number the principal criterion is perhaps not the right way to of people with practical, daily, hands-on experience do it. I recognise that the noble Lord, Lord Williams, and weaken the composition of the House. However, needed to do that to get the ball rolling, as it were. I it is a reasonable figure. Fifty per cent would be more feel that 400 is probably too few if we are to cover the justifiable—but, if necessary, I would go along with 60%. full range of activities. My final point—and I speak against my own interest We should not be driven by discussions about whether in this, because I will reach this figure all too quickly—is we can all fit in here at Question Time and matters of that age is the least-bad cull mechanism we have. To go that kind; after all, in the House of Commons not for retirement at the end of the Parliament at which everybody can fit in at Prime Minister’s Question you attain the age of 80 is not defensible logically—I Time or when the Budget is being debated, and so on, accept all the criticisms of ageism—but it is better so the question about overflowing on big occasions is than the other schemes that have been suggested, and neither here nor there. The important question is for that reason I commend it. whether we have the right numbers and the right kind of regional balance to enable us to fulfil our functions, and within that, of course, account should be taken of 6.34 pm ethnicity, gender, disabilities and so forth; in that Lord Tugendhat: My Lords, I congratulate the noble respect the House of Lords is in fact rather better than Lord, Lord Williams, on launching this debate and the House of Commons as it is. Therefore we should coming up with a proposal that it lies with the power adopt the criterion that is concerned with whether of the House of Lords to implement, if it so wishes. we have the expertise to do the job, not whether we However, as this debate has shown, this is a complicated have the right numbers. None the less, we have to subject and the proposals that he has put forward are think, broadly speaking, in terms of numbers. I think useful not just in themselves but also to the extent that that 400 is too low, and am inclined to say that to go they stimulate debate among others. above 500 would be too high. Somewhere between 450 The most important point was made by the noble and 500 is probably more or less of the right order if Lord, Lord Gordon of Strathblane, just a few moments one is talking about people who are active and who ago, when he questioned making the issue of numbers will devote a considerable slug of their time to the the most important determinant of the reform. We all business of the House of Lords. A considerable slug of agree that the principal purpose of this House is to their time does not mean full-time. We are certainly revise, amend and improve legislative proposals, subject not supposed to be a full-time House and I hope we to the overriding wish of the Commons. The effectiveness never become one. I regret the extent to which the and ability of the House to do that depend on the House of Commons has become a full-time House. expertise—the range of experience, backgrounds, When I was elected in the early 1970s, there were a knowledge and so forth—that the House can call on in number of distinguished people who had no desire to discussing the range of issues that come before it. Up become Cabinet Ministers—or if they had had, they to a point all of us are generalists, which is as it should did not any longer—and who pursued distinguished be. However, above all, our justification is a certain careers at the Bar, business, journalism and the trade quality of judgment and a certain level of expertise. My unions, as well as in all kinds of other activities. The experience of this House is that we all operate largely House was a great deal enriched by their presence, and on the basis of panels of experts, which is to say that its debates were a great deal more authoritative than noble Lords do not for the most part try to speak they are now. It is very important that this House across the board. We choose the subjects to which we should continue to call on people who have interests devote our efforts, so that those who speak regularly and activities outside. None the less, if you are appointed on, say, the National Health Service and social issues to the House of Lords and take on the benefits, title do not normally venture into foreign affairs. The and prestige, what the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, said noble Lord, Lord Owen, is of course an exception, but a few moments ago about Lady Thatcher is absolutely it is generally true. Noble Lords who play a major role germane. If you take on the title, you should do the in debates on legal and civil liberties questions are job. That ought also to be one of the criteria for rarely to be found taking part in debates on economic awarding the title. So the distinction that the noble affairs. Therefore we operate on a basis of expertise. Lord, Lord Williams, makes between those who are 305 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 306 eligible and those who are active is very important. I forward to the opening of the Crick centre near King’s congratulate him on launching us down this road, Cross station, which will be a major centre of scientific which has given rise to a very stimulating debate; no expertise that will be of enormous value to this nation. doubt, more stimulating speeches will take place. I Another Crick centre is planned for Manchester. That hope very much that, as the noble Lord says, we will arose out of an inquiry by the Select Committee. have the means and the will. Of course, many other issues are relevant. However, the second point to which I will refer is the recent 6.40 pm development and the fact that it is now possible for life Lord Walton of Detchant (CB): My Lords, it may be Peers to retire. I was greatly moved by the valedictory thought odd that I should, in my 93rd year, after speech of Lord Jenkin of Roding. There is no doubt 25 years of service in this House, be speaking in this that I shall take advantage of that in the fullness of debate—because, clearly, according to what the noble time and the not too distant future, with my failing Lord, Lord Williams, said in his excellent opening speech, hearing and living as I do in north Northumberland, I am a part of the problem, as I am one of those very so the burden of travel is becoming increasingly difficult. aged Peers. I hope very much that one way in which the number of I should like to say something on three relevant people in this House may be reduced is by others topics in relation to this debate. The first is a note of following that pattern. However, there are several issues personal gratitude. It would never have occurred to me to which I still wish to contribute in debate, which are in my childhood in a mining village in Durham County, coming up in the not-too-distant future. That is something as the son of two primary school teachers, with one that I think is important. grandfather a miner and the other a worker in the Some two years ago, I followed the noble Lord, shipyards of the Tyne, that I would ever end up in the Lord Steel, who suggested a possible financial incentive House of Lords. I went to my father’s school in a to persuade Peers to accept retirement. A paper by mining village but then later got a scholarship to an Andrew Makower of the finance department said that excellent grammar school in a place called Spennymoor. that would clearly be, in the end, financially neutral. I was on the science side, and there was a young man However, I understand fully that the attitude of —among a series of others who had striking careers—on government and the usual channels is implacably opposed the arts side, who became a close friend. He came from to any such development, and I think that we can no a village called Byers Green near Spennymoor; some longer have reason to pursue that topic. I know that of you may have heard of his subsequent career—he the usual channels were very much against it—although was Sir Percy Cradock, who later became the ambassador I recall a Member of Parliament saying many years in Beijing and, eventually, Margaret Thatcher’s adviser ago that the usual channels were the most polluted on foreign affairs. waterways in western Europe. I had an excellent education and then went to I go on to my last point, which has been referred to medical school. I graduated after a shortened wartime by the noble Lords, Lord Clark and Lord Sutherland, course 70 years ago. My subsequent career in medicine and by many others in this debate. When I came into was exciting, but I did not enter this House until 1989 this House, the thing that struck me most was that there —25 years ago—when I was 67 years of age. Fortunately, was no topic on which you could speak in the House of I came in having just completed my presidency of the Lords where there was no other expert present. There General Medical Council and having also completed was a massive range of expertise among people who my wardenship of Green College, Oxford, so I had the had a background of training in the arts, humanities time to devote to debates in this House on issues and education, as well as in business and finance. We relating to medicine, science and education. know the remarkable contributions that have been made I am very glad that my noble friend Lord Sutherland and are still being made by Law Lords and former referred particularly to the work of Select Committees Law Lords in this House, which we enormously appreciate. in this House, because it is something that is often Of course, the expertise in this House is one of its overlooked by Members of the other place and by the most powerful strengths, which not only contributes general public at large. So many reports of Select to difficult debates on matters in medicine that raise Committees of this House are on issues that mould, ethical as well as scientific problems, but nurtures the develop and promote changes in government policy. I work of the Select Committees. This is crucially important. was fortunate enough to chair a very powerful committee Years ago, I often wondered as I looked around this on medical ethics in 1993 to 1994, which produced a House how a lad from a mining village in Durham County report that was accepted by the then Government, got here, because I was so much taken by the sense of who recognised that they should not legalise voluntary wonderment that had such an effect on me when I first euthanasia or physician-assisted suicide. I appreciate entered this House. That attitude of wonderment has that this matter is now, 20 years later, very much under been just a little eroded by some of the developments review, with the Bill of the noble and learned Lord, of the last year or two. The House is too large, and Lord Falconer, under consideration in this House. there have been occasions when its behaviour has been Nevertheless, 20 years of policy was moulded by that less than I would have considered appropriate in early Select Committee. days. It is crucially important that we find a way to I was for 15 years in total on the Select Committee reduce that membership, because the actual scientific on Science and Technology, and I chaired a sub-committee expertise in this House, to quote one example, has on research in the NHS, which in turn led to a series of been slowly but progressively eroded at the same time developments and meetings that created the National as the House has become increasingly politicised, with Institute for Health Research. We are now looking a massive influx of politically motivated Peers. 307 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 308

We used to have several distinguished chemists in which he did it. I am afraid that I could not agree with this House, such as Lord Porter, who was president of many things that he said, the most important of which the Royal Society and, until recently, Lord Lewis of concerned size. This has already been referred to very Newnham. We no longer have an academic chemist in eloquently by my noble friend Lord Tugendhat. However, this House to give us support in such activities and, in if we were to have a House of 400 full-time politicians, several other aspects of science, there has been a given that there is an underlying current that we need progressive decline in numbers. It is therefore crucial at least 400 Peers to do our job, this House would lose that any decisions that are made in future maintain the its character. expertise of the Cross Benches and make certain that Like my noble friend Lord Tugendhat, I entered the all the necessary academic disciplines, including science House of Commons for the first time in 1970. I had and medicine, are properly represented in this House 40 consecutive years there and saw that institution to maintain its background of being able to scrutinise change markedly, and in many ways not for the better. legislation and promote important developments in One of the reasons that it was a much more impressive each of these fields in Select Committee inquiries. Assembly in the 1970s was because many Members on I could say so much more, but from the lofty both sides of the House had wartime experience, ran heights of my advancing antiquity I wish simply to say businesses, or were considerable trade union leaders, that it is an enormous pleasure to be a Member of this and there were eminent lawyers on both sides of the House. However, the future is uncertain, because inevitably House, such as Sir Arthur Irvine on the Labour Benches after the next election, whoever wins, there will be and Sir David Renton on the Conservative Benches. another major influx of political Peers. It is crucial The other place has changed beyond recognition. Its that Members of this House and government should change of hours has destroyed—I use that word ensure that an adequate number of new Peers with deliberately—its collegiate atmosphere. expertise in scientific and other disciplines become Members of this House. If one compares the membership For all that the noble Lord, Lord Walton of Detchant, of this House at the moment and over the last few lamented some of the changes that have taken place years with that of the House of Commons, where the here—I understand why he did so, and I am sorry that number of people with scientific qualifications is minimal, I am not a chemist—this place still has that collegiate one can see that it is crucial to maintain the expertise atmosphere, which is perhaps best symbolised at the that is one of the great strengths of this House. For Long Table, where we sit side by side and talk as that reason, it is right that we should have not only a friends and colleagues and are not always conscious of further meeting of the Procedure Committee but, as political acerbity or conflict. Indeed, I am very rarely the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, said, an expansion of conscious of that. The Campaign for an Effective the Procedure Committee into something like a Second Chamber, which I have the honour to chair, constitutional conference. The future must be clarified includes Members from all parties and the Cross Benches before it is too late. of this House. The noble Lord, Lord Butler, is a distinguished member of the group. We work together 6.51 pm and trust each other because we believe that this place makes a unique contribution to our constitution. Lord Cormack (Con): My Lords, the pleasure and privilege have been ours in listening to the noble Lord I disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Williams, this afternoon. He always brings a very special whom I often sit next to at the Long Table, as I think contribution to any debate in which he takes part. that 400 Peers is far too few. We have a daily attendance Following him is both a stimulating and a humbling of around 400. We ought to bear three things in mind experience. If ever there was a living refutation of the in this debate. One is that the absolute number is very argument that there should be a retirement age, the much higher than the average daily attendance. Another noble Lord, Lord Walton of Detchant, is it. Having is that when we are debating in this place and drawing said that, I agree with him entirely that the speech of on the expertise which it has in such rich abundance, my noble friend Lord Jenkin of Roding, who officially we need to have a wider pool than the 400 Peers retires today, and that of Lord Grenfell in July last proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Williams, would year, were both extremely moving. They went out not provide. We should bear in mind that the working size when they were past their best but when in many ways and the actual size are different. Another thing we they were at the height of their powers. If the noble must bear in mind, which has already been touched on Lord, Lord Walton, disappoints us in the coming year, by my noble friend Lord Forsyth of Drumlean in a he will be in that same category. very good speech, and by others, is that there is a difference between activity and attendance. My noble When I first realised that we were due to have this friend referred to the fact that some colleagues in this long debate today, I was slightly concerned not because House attend and vote but do not do a great deal else. I did not want to discuss your Lordships’ House, to That has to be borne in mind when future appointments which I am passionately devoted, but because I wondered are made to this House, as has been touched on. It is how that would read outside on our first day back, important that this should be a participatory Chamber and whether it would not be better to have a debate and that Peers should take part in the proceedings and deploying some of the expertise to which the noble seek to give of their best in our debates, deliberations Lord has just referred, or one on foreign affairs. However, and committees. as I have listened to the debate, I have become progressively convinced that that was a misplaced fear. I thank and Like my noble friend Lord Tugendhat, I am not worried congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Williams of Elvel, about how full the Chamber is at Question Time. That for introducing the debate and for the manner in is not just because—I say this in the presence of two 309 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 310 right reverend Prelates—I quite enjoy Prayers, based continue it in the next Parliament. If some of the as they are on the Book of Common Prayer, and I am predictions are borne out, there will be a greater need president of the Prayer Book Society. I attend because after the election than there is now for the balance and I like to be here and there is a crowd. But, of course, stability that this House can provide. Yesterday was a when Churchill and Attlee—my noble friend referred nightmare—an absolute nightmare because it was party obliquely to this—were determining the size and style politics at its very worst. Here we have it at something of the new Chamber to be rebuilt after the last war, approaching its very best. After the election, I would they both deliberately said that they wanted to reflect like to see a move towards a convention or royal the adversarial nature of the politics in the shape of commission—I have a slight preference for the latter the Chamber. They also wanted to keep it the same but do not really mind—but we have to do this in a size so that when a debate was not too well attended, it proper constitutional manner. Our constitution is the did not look ridiculous and, when it was well attended, product of centuries of evolution and we must continue there was a sense of high drama and passion that was in that mould. part of the political process. So I do not worry about I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Williams, for the physical size of this Chamber. Whatever conclusion setting us off on this road. I am sorry that I cannot agree we reach, we have to be careful that the numbers here with all that he said, but he has stimulated an extremely are able to do the jobs to which the noble Lord, Lord good and powerful debate, to which the noble Lord, Walton, and others have referred. Lord Walton, made a magnificent contribution. I agree, however, that there are problems and that we have to face up to them. As far as the retirement 7.04 pm age is concerned, I have to say that I am a bit schizophrenic on the subject—and even more so, having just had the Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: My Lords, it is a great honour to follow the noble Lord, Lord Walton. However, pleasure to follow—if the noble Lord, Lord Cope, will probably the solution put forward in the Labour Party forgive me for saying this—my noble friend Lord document, which had much to commend it, was one Cormack, who I have followed on a number of occasions to which we should give serious and careful thought. I in the other place as well as here. It is a great pleasure. am also taken by my noble friend Lord Jopling’s Like him and, indeed, everyone else, I am grateful to scheme of having a cap—and he knows that. There are my noble friend Lord Williams of Elvel. I stress his precedents implicit in his proposal. When we had the territorial designation because a Freudian gremlin has Act of Union in 1707 and the Act of Union with appeared either in the Chief Whip’s Office, or maybe Ireland in 1801 the Scottish and Irish peerages respectively in the Clerk of the Parliaments’ Office, that describes elected a certain number among them to come to him in the speakers list as “Lord Williams of Evel”—not Westminster. There are more recent precedents, such the opposite of “good”, but E-v-e-l: “English votes for as that relating to Ireland in the 1920s and again much English laws”. So I suspect that the Clerk of the more recently. We should have a target to which we Parliaments has probably done that. work over a period. Like my noble friend Lord Cormack, I think that this My view accords closely with that of the noble has been an excellent debate. The contributions have Lord, Lord Gordon, in that I think that having this been excellent. I have scored things out of my notes House about the same size as the House of Commons when I thought that what I was going to say would be is probably about right. Thereby you would have the irrelevant or had already been said, and I have added expertise, people would not have to be here every day things because I wanted to respond to some of the and when they have particular issues on which they comments. It has been a really good debate. want to come to speak, they could do that. Also you However, there has been one strange thing about would have people who felt that they must participate this debate—the dog that did not bark. As I said to my fairly regularly, and you cannot feel the place unless noble friend Lord Richard in my intervention, this is you are here fairly regularly. It is no good someone who the first time that I have been in a debate where the is an eminent lawyer or physician swanning in once a Liberal Democrat Peers have failed to materialise in year and making a speech if he does not understand verbal form. They have said not a word. If my noble the ambience. What, more than anything else, shone friend Lord Williams had circulated a note saying that through the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Walton, the criterion for deciding the number of people to was that he does understand this place; he loves it, has continue in the next Parliament in the House of Lords mastered it and has many friends within it. will be based on participation in this debate, they Taking up a point made by the noble Lord, Lord would have been crowding in, speaking at length and Clark of Windermere, we cannot eschew primary dominating, as they often do at Question Time and in legislation, but there are things that we can do to address constitutional debates of other kinds, in foreign affairs our procedures. For that reason, I would support debates and so on. This needs some kind of inquiry setting up a committee to consider a prepared paper and I shall have to look into it. looking at all the options, including those of the noble My noble friend Lord Williams described some of Lord, Lord Williams, and meeting over the next two the disorder that occasionally takes place at Question or three months. The committee should not have an Time. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Cope, was artificial deadline—artificial deadlines are bedevilling not referring to me when he raised that issue. It is the solving of the problems of devolution, whereby, probably a terrible slur on his noble friend Lord Forsyth “This has to be done by St Andrews Day, by Burns for bringing all this party politics into it. However, I Night or St David’s Day”. That is absolute hogwash. have a more sensible suggestion. As I have said on other What we need is a committee that can begin work and occasions, although I know that not everyone agrees, 311 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 312 every other legislative body—or every one in which I Among other things, it recommends that the size of have participated—that has questions from the floor this House should be smaller than the House of and so on has someone in the chair with the power to Commons. I say this to my noble friend Lord Gordon call people and to moderate, as the Moderator of the of Strathblane—my really good friend—and to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland and many noble Lord, Lord Cormack: there is something symbolic others do. The issue is the unseemliness when lots of about making it smaller than the House of Commons, people get up to speak. I saw it again today when two to reinforce the primacy of the other place. It has to be Tories stared each other out so that they could get in. reinforced in different ways and that helps to do it. In It is therefore important, as others have said, not to our report, the aim was 450 Peers, but I must say—I attribute all the problems that we face in terms of hope I am not giving any secrets away—that we were disorder to the size of the House. swithering upwards and downwards when we discussed I sympathise with the concern about size. As the that. There is not an obvious number. As others have noble Lord, Lord Butler, and others have said, we are said, we need the number to do the job. The Select the second-largest legislative assembly after the Chinese Committee I serve on, the European Union Select National People’s Congress, but we are also probably Committee, with its six sub-committees, needs personnel the cheapest national legislative assembly. This assembly to keep it going—I must not say to man it. We need costs very little indeed because, of course, we do not enough for that as well. get salaries or have huge offices or numbers of staff. We also recommend the abolition of hereditary That occasionally makes it difficult to operate as a Peers—at least of their participation in this place, not proper assembly. Consider the US Senate. As someone anything worse than that. I have not heard any arguments mentioned, it has only 100 people, but each one of in favour of keeping them; if there are any I look forward those has about 100 others helping them in their to hearing them. The ones who have been useful have offices to make sure that they can operate. been made life Peers anyway. We also recommend a minimum attendance and participation level. That has Lord Maxton: Equally, each state has its own senate, been discussed; I will not go into it further. with its own members. Therefore, if one takes the We also recommended retirement at the end of the totality of senators across the United States, there are Parliament in which Peers reach 80. I have just been probably considerably more than us. appointed to do something new. Many years ago, when I was young, I was director of Age Concern Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: I am grateful to my Scotland. I then got elected to Parliament and I had to noble friend for his helpful and wise contribution. It retire from that. reinforces the point raised earlier by my noble friend Lord Clark: it is particularly difficult for those of us The Chairman of Committees (Lord Sewel): Shame! who come from afar, because the costs to get here are that much more. You do not get paid. In fact, you really do need a pension or a private income if you are Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: My noble friend Lord to serve in this Chamber from anywhere outside of Sewel has said it is a pity that that happened. I have London. That is true. I am lucky to have a pension just been appointed a trustee of Age Scotland, the new from the other place, so I am able to do so. body that replaced Age Concern Scotland and Help The main point I want to make is that we cannot the Aged in Scotland. The director, Brian Sloan, said consider size in isolation. We must also take account to me when I was appointed, “Of course, George, of the other constitutional changes that are either you’ve got more of a direct interest in our work now”. under way or planned, including further devolution to He was absolutely right. This is the kind of thing that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Incidentally, it we should be doing. We are not in favour of arbitrary is not just to Scotland. People say, “Scottish Members retirement ages; I should not advocate that. However, of Parliament shouldn’t vote and Scottish people shouldn’t I do not think this is arbitrary. We have looked at it participate”, but there is devolution to Wales and there carefully and made a serious recommendation. has been for Northern Ireland for a long time. I never We then come to the longer term, which is the more heard the Tories say, “These Ulster Unionists shouldn’t important debate—no disrespect to what my noble participate in matters that affect only England”. We friend Lord Williams and others have raised about the have to deal with that as well. We also have to try to current matter. In the longer term, we need to start resolve the democratic deficit in England. That could with the purpose of this House: not how many we are, include an English Parliament, a regional government, but what we are here for. First of all, do we need a a combination of both, or more power to the cities, second Chamber? An argument has to be made against but it could also include some changes in this place, unicameralism in favour of a second Chamber. I used which I will come to. to be a unicameralist, but if you go to Scotland and The Library Note has been mentioned. That Library see what has happened with the Scottish Parliament, Note was helpful, particularly on the statistics. I was where there are no checks and balances on a Parliament particularly sorry that it did not cover the Labour controlled by one party, with a First Minister, the Lords’ report, to which my noble friend Lady Taylor Presiding Officer, and the majority of the Select referred. Perhaps they are being rather pure and non- Committees of the same party, you begin to see the partisan and do not want to mention it because it advantages of a second Chamber. comes from one party, but I think it is one of the best If noble Lords agree with that, how should the second contributions to this debate—I am a little bit biased as Chamber differ from and relate to the House of I was on the committee that helped to draw it up. Commons? I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Butler, 313 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 314 who said that it should be complementary to it. I think I say to him and to the leaders of the other parties, the noble Lord, Lord Walton, raised the question of why can we not set up that constitutional convention the council of experts that we have here. This is a really now? Why can there not be some agreement between important dilemma about what we are here for. If we the parties? Why can they not show that they can work want to be a council of experts that is one thing, but it together and say, “This is how we want to go forward”? does not have the legitimacy of a body that has some We need that sensible, holistic approach, with respect, form of election, whether direct or indirect. That is to protect us from further constitutional Cleggery: difficult. It is difficult to argue that a nominated body, poorly thought out, short-term changes in that outrageous however expert and brilliant it is, should be part of the attack from Mr Clegg on the House of Lords, as the legislature. That conflict needs reconciling. noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, said. By the way, that did not stop him stuffing lots more Liberal Democrat Peers into this place. There is a slight dichotomy there. Lord Butler of Brockwell: I suggest to the noble Ah, a Liberal Democrat voice. Lord that it is the primacy of the House of Commons that is the answer to that. The primacy of the House of Commons is because they are elected. This body can Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD): My Lords, I take contribute its expertise without being elected. great offence at the suggestion of being stuffed anywhere by Mr Clegg. I was appointed to this place from Greater Manchester on my merits. I went for my tea and came Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: That is an argument. I back at four o’clock. I get the feeling that no one is am posing a problem rather than coming down on one speaking from these Benches because to do so would side or the other. It is difficult. If one looks around the be a complete waste of time. There are 800 turkeys here world, there is nowhere else where the second Chamber refusing to vote for Christmas. Until that is understood, does not have some form of legitimacy. We need to there will never be the change that is needed to make look at that where we are participating in the legislative this a democratic senate that reflects the people. process. I do not know whether this is going to cause Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: It is difficult— controversy in relation to what the noble Lord, Lord Cope, said. He spoke about the culture of this place and some of us—I am sure he was not referring to me, Lord Cotter (LD): My Lords— but maybe to some others—not accepting it. With respect to the noble Lord, some people outside this Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: Ihavegivenwaytoone place do not accept all aspects of its culture, particularly noble Lord. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Goddard, the privilege that is represented by the very nature of that I respect the qualities that he brings to this House. this building, this legislature and this part of the I heard his maiden speech. I thought that it was terrific legislature. People have to recognise that. We do not and I look forward to hearing much more from him. I all think that the comfort and the comradeship represented now give way to the noble Lord. here is automatically the right thing. There are some good aspects, but there are also some legitimate differences between the parties. These ought to be represented Lord Cotter: I am not down to speak but I want to and expressed in a legislature. There is nothing wrong say that I disagree with my colleague about turkeys. I with doing that in a forceful and eloquent way; that have great respect for the experience of Members of was done no better than by my noble friend Lord this Chamber. I am sorry that I have not put my name Forsyth. I agreed with everything he said in his speech down to speak so that I might say more but perhaps I today. That will not do him or me any good; we will be will be able to do so on another occasion. I thank the attacked by the cybernats—the nationalists who go noble Lord for giving way. I certainly think that we online and attack us regularly—for being in cahoots have great strength in this Chamber and I repeat that I again. I think it is good that on an issue such as this, disagree with my colleague on his point about turkeys. which is not a party-political issue but one about the functioning of the second Chamber, we come to some Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: If I have achieved nothing kind of agreement. else with my speech, I have had two Liberal Democrat I have gone on much longer than I intended. I interventions and that is a little step forward. What I apologise. In conclusion, the Labour Lords’ group said about Mr Clegg applies not just to House of recommended a UK constitutional commission, as Lords reform. We are now seeing the problems of my noble friend Lady Taylor said. That has been fixed-term Parliaments. Thankfully, his misguided attempt supported by the House of Commons Political and to reform this place—and it was misguided—was thrown Constitutional Reform Committee, which Graham Allen out. I think that a lot of the Liberal Democrats, MP chairs, by the Electoral Reform Society, by the including the one who has just intervened on my Constitution Society, by Unlock Democracy and many speech—I spoke to him about it—thought that it was others. Along with my noble friend Lord Purvis of misguided. Mr Clegg’s proposal on voting reform for Tweed from the Liberal Democrats, I have been involved the House of Commons was thrown out. That is one in setting up an all-party group to look at ways that reason why we should view talking about the size of this can be pushed forward. this House as a small step towards getting holistic, The leader of my party, Mr Miliband, has already sensible and reasonable reform not just of the House said that a Labour Government would legislate for a of Lords or of Westminster but of our whole senate of the nations and regions. With no disrespect, constitutional set-up. 315 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 316

7.21 pm or voluntarily, given that your Lordships’ House operates—in many ways like Wikipedia—largely on a Lord Wei (Con): My Lords, I am grateful to the voluntary and self-regulating basis. noble Lord, Lord Williams, for tabling this very timely debate. I wish to declare an interest as the youngest So how should we reduce the number of those Member of, and a relative newcomer to, your Lordships’ attending the Chamber? As the youngest Peer, one House. might feel tempted to argue for a cut-off based on age. In my brief four or so years as a toddler here, it has However, I am fairly firmly opposed to this route. As a occurred to me that any discussion of how this place revising Chamber we need expertise in, and experience should be reformed ought always to start on the basis of, every activity in life, whether drawn from current of what it is for rather than primarily the process by or past endeavours in business, government and civil which its Members are chosen or how long they stay. society, from people who would have been or were As a member of the general public, before I came into elected in the past, as well as from those experts who the House I had little idea of what it was for, grouping would never dare stand and would much prefer to it simply under the vague heading of representatives devote their energy to their own field of science, art or chosen to help govern this country. the humanities or to other activities rather than be in the glaring limelight that is the staple of the modern-day In my time in your Lordships’ House it has become elected representative. To force Members to leave simply evident to me that our primary function is that of a because they are too old would cut us off from such revising Chamber—a place in which to amend and expertise and would also, in my view, be unfair on suggest improvements to laws produced by elected those who enter this House later in life, having therefore representatives in the House of Commons, whose only a few years in which to serve. primacy over this House is enshrined in conventions around the treatment of finance Bills, in the ability to Another route is to go for fixed terms—say, of force certain Bills through under certain conditions 15 years. Again, for similar reasons to those I have just and through party manifestos, and in deciding what given, I think that we would miss out arbitrarily on laws the Government of the day want to have debated experience that can take a lifetime to build, not least of in each parliamentary Session. drafting legislation, since economies and policy often In a real sense, and bearing in mind our wider move in decades-long cycles. Nor am I convinced that modern audience, we function as a kind of human fixed terms—nor, for that matter, an arbitrary age Wikipedia for the laws of this country, suggesting limit, which, given life expectancy, would have to be changes and improvements to legislation that may, for increased periodically—would help us to address the whatever reason, have been created less than perfectly immediate question of reducing the number of Peers in a hurry to respond to some crisis, scandal or tragedy, attending at peak times unless destabilising and drastic or without real historic knowledge when similar laws action were taken to implement such terms straight were drafted many decades ago, or even without relevant away or the age limit were set impractically low. life experience. In the main, we perform this Wikipedia My proposal would be quite simply, and with possible function well, and for relatively little cost compared small amendments, to invite Members of the House with other countries, drawing on the long expertise of who had served the longest to voluntarily semi-retire our Members and their interests and activities in and by convention as active attendees of the Chamber and beyond the House both current and in the past. to become in effect honorary life Peers, retaining the That is not to say that there are not issues. We are ability at certain times of the year, such as post the perceived to be too big, at least for the start of each Sovereign’s speech, to contribute if they wished—namely, day’s Questions and major events. That brings a cost, to reduce the size of the House using tenure as the although it should be noted that full-time senators primary criteria. This proposal would be simple, objective and their staff would cost more per head. And some —there can be no dispute about when someone entered— might argue that, given that our peerages are for life, quick to implement and fair, since everyone would get we are not as accountable as Members in the other a shot at sharing their experience. It would also, I place, although that very much depends, I suppose, on believe, address to a large degree the concerns in how safe your seat is as an MP. All that provides general that exist around our size, our cost and even ammunition for those who would like to abolish this our accountability. In my view, knowing that your House and replace it with an elected senate with fixed time will be up at some point makes you want to terms, even though the constitutional challenge of contribute fully while you have the opportunity. It is which House would ultimately then become the more also a continuous solution. Unlike choosing based on powerful of the two over time as a result would have to attendance, it does not require periodic revisiting and be definitively addressed. the imposition every now and then of an arbitrary time window in which to assess attendance levels. However, the question before us today is not whether Finally, it retains the idea that we remain Peers for life, this modern-day human legislative Wikipedia should with all the independence of thought that that brings, have its contributors—or, rather, moderators—elected even if those who have been here longest voluntarily on the basis of popularity but how we address the size participate only at certain times of the year. issue, which in turn has an impact on our costs, and potentially on how accountable we are, if not to an With the kind assistance of the Lords Library, I electorate then at least in terms of how much of a have run an analysis of average tenure. Through a contribution we make while we are here. This in turn voluntary reduction of the kind I have described, ultimately, for now, in my view comes down to how shrinking the House to 650 core Members—bearing long Members remain in this House, whether legally in mind that not all of these would attend every day, so 317 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 318 this would translate to a lower number of active Peers high cap, and modifications to procedures of the House —would still give an average tenure of around 19 years. to arrive at a practical solution. As such, the suggestion The raw data are available in the Library for those who of an options paper by the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, want to run their own analysis. The average tenure is most welcome. It could well be that such a process would of course increase if the cap were higher than leads to a suggested age limit of, say, 85 or 90, with an 650. With a lower cap, I fear that we would, sadly, lose average tenure of 25 to 30 years, with processes in a lot of experience, which is why I suggest that by place to ration suggested attendance at Questions and, convention certain debates, such as those post the on top of that, inviting fully non-attending Peers to Sovereign’s speech, be reserved for honorary life Peers become honorary life Peers straightaway. We might to continue to contribute to. Such Peers, or retirees, arrive at a steady-state number of 650 to 700 Members, would remain influential by continuing to be on the of which 400 would attend almost every day. The key Estate, contributing informally as part of the wider for me is that tenure is a key part of the mix and that activities that take place in Parliament. the losses incurred in terms of experience to the House I would very much welcome thoughts and feedback from other methods are minimised. on this suggestion, and indeed I should like to ask the I ask the forgiveness of Peers who might object to Leader of the House and fellow Peers what views they my or other Peers’ suggestions in this area but, as all might have of such a scheme. There remain issues others have mentioned already in this debate, if we do that would need to be worked out, such as how this not act voluntarily now to address this in some effective might apply to the hereditary Peers and what would way, legislation to force it feels sadly inevitable. Let us, happen if, theoretically, hundreds of Peers were brought come what may, act now so that change is not brutal in quickly over a five-year period, which would radically and sudden for any of us, but that it is appropriate, in shorten the average tenure of the place. Then there is line with what we are here for, and effective. Let us, to consideration of how such a move might affect the borrow from Dylan Thomas, change now, so that we composition of Peers among the various political parties. do not have to, In my view, Bishops should be appointed on the “go gentle into that good night”. same basis as operates today. For life Peers, leaving would be triggered whenever new life Peers were 7.32 pm appointed. My initial thinking around hereditary Peers is for a similar tenure system to operate as with life Lord Maxton: My Lords, I thank my noble friend Peers, but that when the longest-serving Peer due to Lord Williams of Elvel for introducing this debate. leave upon the appointment of a new Peer is a hereditary During the Recess, I read that his stepson, the most Peer, the hereditary Peer is replaced using the same reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury, had electoral system already in place but with the next contracted pneumonia. I hope that he is now well on longest-serving life Peer being invited to retire and to the road to recovery. I shall make two points, one of become honorary to allow the incoming life Peer to which is in relation to the transport problems of my take their place. In effect, hereditary peerage elections noble friends Lady Taylor and Lord Foulkes. I attend would be triggered upon a particular hereditary becoming this debate having taken today five forms of transport the longest serving Peer in the House overall and when to get here. I took a car to a hotel on the Isle of Arran, a new Peer is appointed. a bus across the island, a boat from the island to the mainland, a train to Glasgow and a train from Glasgow To address the issue of the House being flooded, to London, and then the Underground. If that does which many argue rightly is the prime cause of our not deserve a pat on the back, perhaps it should. current size issue, it may be that we need to recommend a reasonable cap on how many can come in each year, My noble friend Lord Gordon of Strathblane and I although I suspect that this would need primary legislation are the same age and will be 80 next year, which means and support from the Government of the day, which that, under the proposals being put forward, we might might not be politically feasible. have to retire. However, recently I did an online test which showed that my real physical age, if you take the Much as it is difficult, we need to change as a fact that I take exercise, go to the gym and do this and House in order to safeguard what is special and effective that, is 60. That therefore means I have another 20 years about it. Change is difficult and I think that in addition to go until I have to retire. to what I have suggested, and regardless of whatever In this debate, it would be very easy to fall into the method we ultimately choose to pursue, we need to trap of defending the House of Commons against support Peers in the big transitions both into and out those who are attacking it. I spent quite a long time there of this Chamber, so that lives can be reconfigured and and have to say that some of the changes, although prepared for the changes that are involved. I have not all of them, have been beneficial. The noble Lord, spoken about this on previous occasions and supporting Lord Cormack, said that rebuilding the Chamber still transitions is an area in which we could do better has to be adversarial, but it always has been such. I am generally so that it is less stressful not just for those of sure that, like me, when he shows people around us in this House but for the increasing numbers in this the two Houses, he points out the sword lines in the country entering the period that we now call later life. Commons and says, “You can’t step over that line Reducing the size of this House through tenure because the length of the sword is between the two”. It remains the least worst of the options being explored always has been adversarial. I had an uncle who was currently.It may be that ultimately we need a combination thrown out of the House of Commons for making an of a very high age limit—if we must, although I would overtly political, let us say, insult to a Member of the prefer to not have one—plus a tenure system with a Tory party. 319 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 320

The question that has not been asked is not whether their number. Should they be here? Are they part of we should change the size of the Lords but whether we this deal? I am told that there is separate legislation for should change at all at this point in time. My answer them and therefore the plan put forward by my noble would be no. I agree with my noble friend Lord Clark friend cannot cover them. Are the Bishops prepared to that we have to have legislation but, before we have be part of the plan? Are they prepared to say, “We will legislation, surely we have to look at the whole way in not attend if this plan goes ahead”? I hope so. A noble which we are governed, including whether we still friend says, “Of course”, and I hope they will. That should be in this building, how and whether we should ought to happen. The Bishops’ Bench is the biggest vote, whether we should vote online and the type of single anomaly in this place at the moment. That is card we should use to vote, right through to the sort of because this is now a multicultural society and they do devolution we should have to Scotland, Wales and not represent even the majority of the people of this Northern Ireland. After all, we have just had the country, so why should they, and they alone, be sitting referendum in Scotland and have seen more powers in the House of Lords, which is part of the legislature, given to the Scottish Parliament. We may have to say, the body which makes the laws of this country? That “Youwill not be able to serve on the education committee cannot be right. It is time that we separated the church in this House because you are a Scot. Education in and the state completely and the Bishops should be Scotland is devolved and is not part of the English told to go. We should resolve that this House becomes system, so you will not be able to serve on a committee completely secular. People will still talk about religion that is about the education system”. and different religions are represented here, but the Church of England should not be an established church within our organisation. Lord Sutherland of Houndwood: I may be a Scot. I worked for 20 years in England and London. I was Chief Inspector of Schools here for England and 7.40 pm vice-chancellor of the University of London. I think that that opens the door a tad. Lord Berkeley of Knighton: My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Williams of Elvel, for getting us to think about this terribly important subject. Lord Maxton: I was born in Oxford of an academic. Many noble Lords have expressed the opinion that Therefore, like the noble Lord, I probably would have perception is very important; that is, the way the the same qualification, although I spent all my career country sees us. What I think the noble Lord is saying, in education in Scotland. The fact is that we are living if I understand him correctly, is that we should do our in a political world that is changing very rapidly. We own housekeeping. We should not necessarily need are also living in a high-tech world that is changing primary legislation for that, and if we did do our own very rapidly, not just in terms of this country but in housekeeping we would be much more likely to ensure terms of the world more generally. The idea of the our future. nation state may be at an end. Let alone whether we I have been a Member of this House for just under devolve power to different parts of this country, this two years and therefore my experience is limited, but country may have to be part of a larger organisation in there are some points that have made themselves very order to govern itself and to control the companies forcefully to me. The first cannot be said too often: and organisations that are now much bigger than a what this House brings to the legislation of this country country. Companies such as Amazon and Apple—I is scrutiny and improvement. I have seen that in countless hold one of its products in my hand—are as big as debates. We have improved the law as it has gone some of the countries in which they operate and have through Parliament. The second thing that I have been a turnover larger than those countries. struck by is the huge respect for the mandated Chamber. Surely we must look at the whole issue, which is It is for those two reasons—we scrutinise and improve why I am in favour of something for which my noble thanks to the expertise that is here and we do not pose friend Lord Foulkes has been pushing for some time; a threat to the mandated House—that I am against namely, a convention on the constitution to look in any idea of an elected House. We would not have the the broadest possible way at how we govern ourselves, expertise and we would have a Chamber that could the people of this country, and how we fit in with the stand up on its back legs and say, “We now have just as rest of the world. Until we have done that, we should much right to confront you as you have to make laws”. hold off any changes in this place. That will require I do not think that that would be a healthy development. legislation but surely we should sit back and say, “Let I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Clark of us have the general election, see what happens and Windermere, that one can learn in this House because then consider what we are going to do”. I hope that of the assembled expertise—particularly, as he said, the Labour Party will win an overall majority, will set that of the medical profession. I feel that I am here up the constitutional convention and will look at the largely to represent the world of the arts and music way in which we govern. education, but I have been so passionately moved by Finally, I say to my noble friend Lord Williams, some subjects that I have taken them up with gusto. having expressed a hope that the most reverend Primate FGM is one of them. I find it absolutely extraordinary the Archbishop is on the mend, that he is not talking that 60,000 women in this country have been mutilated. about 400 Peers in this Chamber. He is talking about One evening I came to a dinner break debate and 426 Peers because 26 are here automatically; namely, learnt all about the Central African Republic, about the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Archbishop of which I knew nothing. What an incredible privilege York, the three Bishops, plus the others who make up that is. 321 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 322

That brings me to the point about whether we should 7.47 pm pay people off and ask them to leave. That would be Lord Naseby (Con): My Lords, it is particularly very difficult for the public to swallow, essentially useful to hear from a noble Lord who joined us just because it is an honour and a privilege to be here. We under two years ago and to listen to him reflect on his have to cover people’s costs, and we should remember life as a working Peer, which is clearly what he is. I that we are doing this for the honour. That is because, concur with his views on the Appointments Commission. quite frankly, for a lawyer or a consultant physician, The balance has gone wrong and he is quite right to and even for a humble broadcaster, £300 is not really say that the public outside do not understand why the the going rate. One does this because one believes in it; balance between the Cross-Benchers and the political one is here and one wants to make a difference. I appointees should be so skewed one way. I should like slightly disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Clark of to concur with those who have thanked my good Windermere, about his fear of trespassing on the friend the noble Lord, Lord Williams of Elvel, for primacy of legislation for the reasons I have just set making the debate today possible. out. If we can get our housekeeping done before needing to go that far, I think we will be answering a It has been my privilege to be in politics for 50 years lot of the criticism. this year. I first got involved with the London Borough of Islington, but not surprisingly I was not successful On the subject of perception, nothing, in my experience, there in 1966. I spent 23 years in the other place, riles the public more than the political appointments always in a marginal seat, which is an experience that that are given to donors. Of course there are some not too many noble Lords have had, and subsequently donors who bring a great deal to this House, but for I have been in your Lordships’ House. I have listened the life of me I cannot see why, given that we have an to both the noble Lord, Lord Williams, and my colleague Appointments Commission, we do not strengthen it and noble friend Lord Strathclyde saying that in their and give it statutory powers. The noble Lord, Lord judgment this House is too large. As an aside, I was Forsyth, touched on this in his remarks. At the moment surprised that my noble friend Lord Strathclyde did the commission can look at political appointments not mention anything about the hereditary Peers or, only from the point of view of financial and criminal indeed, the agreement that I understand was reached probity. If it was to vet people from the point of view when I first came here that at some stage, when the of what people would bring to the House, they would reform took place, the hereditary Peers were to end. feel better and the public would feel that they were There needs to be a degree of clarification of what getting a better deal because it would not just be cash that now means in the context of 2015. for peerages. That is something which infuriates the general public, and I understand why. However, leaving that aside, the problem is not just the size of the House. The problem is the perception of At the time when I was appointed along with my the public—whom we serve and who pay all our noble friend Lady Lane-Fox, the Prime Minister asked allowances—that this House is, in particular, too old the then chairman of the Appointments Commission and, secondly, too large, which it probably is. In my to restrict the number of appointments he made to judgment, as someone who has spent 25 years in the two—at a time when he and the other political leaders communications industry, in the world of advertising, upped theirs to 30. I simply cannot understand this. the perception as you go around—which most noble Why can they not be asked to limit what they are Lords who are still active do—is that the age profile is doing if we are worried about the House? I have not too old. That issue needs to be addressed. heard a single person say that there are no concerns. Really, that would be such a simple way forward. I have listened to a number of proposals throughout the day. My noble friend Lord Wei certainly came up I have mentioned my noble friend Lady Lane-Fox with a novel proposal this evening, and I hope that and we have just heard from the noble Lord, Lord whoever looks at how we move forward will look at it Wei, who mentioned his age. I hope he does not mind in some depth, perhaps contrasting it with the proposal my picking up on that. It is a very good reason not to of my noble friend Lord Jopling—who is not in his have a 15-year cut-off. If I am correct, the noble Lord place at the moment—which, until hearing my noble and my noble friend would be only in their mid-fifties friend Lord Wei, I was basically in favour of. by the time they were asked to leave. That is the point at which they will have acquired a huge amount of I have no problems with the proposal from the Labour knowledge and expertise. For that reason, a 15-year Party that some time in the Parliament in which I cut-off probably would not work. However, I agree am 80—which will be the next Parliament—I should with the noble Lord, Lord Williams, that we have to retire, if necessary at the end of it. I am perfectly fit do something. We need to seize the bull by the horns now and I am sure that I will, hopefully, be perfectly before it is taken from us. I believe very strongly in fit then, but I have no problem with that if it is to be what we achieve in this House. When I was appointed, the agreed strategy forward. the noble Lord, Lord Jay of Ewelme, who was the I will make two other short comments. The new chairman of the Appointments Commission, said to retirement scheme is greatly to be welcomed, although me at the interview, “I have one final question to ask those who have commented on it are right when they you, and it is a pivotal one: will you be here?”. After say that we have no real understanding yet, based on all, the commission is arguably the most democratic just a few months, of what the effect of the new way into this House. That echoes what the noble Lord, retirement scheme will be on our senior colleagues in Lord Forsyth, said about Baroness Thatcher and about terms of age. My suspicion is that it will help, because himself. We have to show some dedication to this it provides for those who are in the upper quartile—as House, in which we have the honour to serve. I am now, I think, at 78—a proper way to end one’s 323 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 324 political career, in the knowledge that one can come continuing to add to our membership. On that last back a little bit afterwards and keep up friendships and point, we should perhaps be a little grateful to the contacts, and thus stay mentally alive. I welcome that. Prime Minister for not following the line laid down in I would very much vote against any form of financial the 2010 coalition agreement which stated that: compensation for anyone leaving. That is entirely wrong. “Lords appointments will be made with the objective of After all, it is a privilege to have served society, whether creating a second chamber that is reflective of the share of the in the other place or in this place, and I do not expect vote secured by the political parties in the last general election”. to be compensated for doing something that I have As Professor Meg Russell pointed out in the House greatly enjoyed and to which I hope I have made a Full report, published by the Constitution Unit in contribution. I certainly do not want any financial April 2011, compensation. However, I have the privilege of being “putting this promise into effect would require a minimum of 269 a trustee on the parliamentary pension scheme. Within additional peers to be appointed, taking the size of the chamber the structure of that scheme, an active provision for a to 1062”. hardship fund exists. It is done scrupulously honestly As we have heard, the actual number of new Peers has and in confidence. I believe, as someone who observes been 160, which exceeds by a substantial amount the your Lordships’ House fairly closely, and having perhaps total who have left, whether by death, retirement or observed this as Chairman of Ways and Means, that resignation. This is the reason why the membership of there are a number of our colleagues who might be the House now stands at nearly 800. eligible for such help. Understandably, they are too However, the really important statistic is the number proud to mention it, but those of us who watch these who are attending regularly, which has crept up to things—I am sure that would be true of both Whips’ around 500. That compares with, for example, 350 to Offices—perhaps know who they are. I see no reason 450 before the passage of the House of Lords Act in why we as a House should not produce something 1999, when the membership of the House was well in comparable to the scheme in the other place. If it excess of 1,000. One reason why more Peers are attending would help the committee that would be responsible is because the average age of new Members is a lot for looking at this, I would be more than happy to lower than that of those who have left us. YourLordships volunteer, with the officers from the parliamentary tend to live longer than most members of the population, pension scheme, to put together a draft structure for and the average age of departure—until recently, that consideration by the committee, if that met your has been a euphemism for death—has been 85, whereas Lordships’ requirements. the average age for new Members has been 59 in the I do not really want to say any more this evening current Session. Intriguingly, the overall average age because we have had a very full debate. However, I of Members, at 70, is almost exactly the same today as genuinely say that the timing for this is right. I am it was when I joined the House in 1999. The one sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Maxton, has left but difference, I am afraid, is that I am now much closer to he is one noble Lord with whom I would disagree the average than I was 15 years ago. totally. The idea that the whole world’s political structure Many Members referred to the innovation of the has to be analysed before we decide to do anything is, system of retirement, which I think has been welcomed in my judgment, totally wrong. We should get on and by all noble Lords. This is, or will be, a means of do something. The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, was achieving a reduction in the membership of the House. right when he said we should get on and do it, before However, I was a little surprised to discover that it the election. Let us get started on it and take this thing does not apply when one of our 92 hereditary Members forward. It is too important to our nation to be left to retires, because that retirement is then followed by a some time in the future. by-election, something which the noble Lord, Lord MacGregor, spoke against earlier on. It seems rather 7.55 pm strange that we have a by-election for somebody who Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab): My Lords, I am has taken voluntary retirement under these arrangements. very happy to follow the noble Lord, Lord Naseby. A I am afraid that the issue of the size of the House is little unusually, I can happily say that there was nothing bound to grow in significance as the general election in his speech with which I disagreed. Every point he approaches, and we must be robust in defending ourselves. made was absolutely fair. I echo the views of every It would clearly be absurd if anything approaching the other noble Lord who has spoken in this debate and old coalition policy of matching the number of new express my appreciation to my noble friend Lord Members to the share of the vote received at the Williams of Elvel for initiating it. It might have seemed election were to be put into effect, given the fact that a bit self-indulgent for a debate like this to happen on the election may well produce a rather strange set of our first day back, but it has been such an excellent results, not just in seats but in terms of the percentage debate, with so many very interesting and positive share of the vote won by political parties. Are we points made in it, that it was well worth while. I simply really saying that if an extremist party were to attract say thank you very much to my noble friend. 15% of the vote, that would justify it getting 100 or so I will try to avoid going over the ground that other Members in your Lordships’ House? Of course, if one noble Lords have covered in this debate—which is follows that line, what would we do about a party that either one of the advantages or one of the disadvantages did well in 2010 and was rewarded with 34 new Peers of speaking very late. There is no need to go into the during the life of this Parliament but then found that basic statistics about the total number of Members of its vote had fallen to less than 10%? Will its Peers this House, the proportion who attend regularly and automatically volunteer to leave the House in order to the consequences, both practical and reputational, of bring that proportion down? I rather suspect not. 325 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 326

One sensible answer is to agree on a moratorium on 8.04 pm new creations or at least agree on a one-in, one-out Lord Luce (CB): My Lords, I very much agree with policy so that the total membership gets no larger, the the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, about the quality of party balances are maintained and the Government this debate on the whole question of the size of the continue not to have a majority. But first, of course, House of Lords. It has been outstanding, with very there has to be agreement on what the total membership distinguished contributions, and we owe that to the should be. I have not heard any consensual view on noble Lord, Lord Williams, for giving the lead in this. that, other than the fact that 400 is thought to be too few and 800 is thought to be too many. I am also very glad that the House in general has made a distinction between the longer-term issues of We could adopt a rule that is followed in local what one might call radical reform of this House—the government; that is, members who fail to attend a proposals for an elected House, for example, which meeting in a six-month period without a good reason will no doubt return in due course, or the implications are deemed to have resigned their membership. We of devolution in Scotland or of a European Union could look at more draconian measures, such as limiting referendum, if we have one, which are longer-term membership to those who attend more than a minimum issues—from what we have principally been debating number of sittings. Your Lordships may be interested today, which is the continuing current role of the to know that if we set the figure at 25% of our sittings House of Lords as a revising and scrutinising Chamber, in the current Session, we would be saying goodbye to which obviously involves more modest, incremental around 137 Members who have not attended at least changes, perhaps against the background of Burke’s 19 of the 78 sittings that have taken place. maxim: A further change that I do not think anybody else “A disposition to preserve, and an ability to improve”. has suggested but I would be interested to have my I would also like to reinforce the view that has been noble friend’s view on is that we could in future expressed today by some noble Lords that there should consider what we might call “ministerial peerages” be a constitutional convention, I assume of a permanent which come to an end when the individual concerned nature, which will pick up all the strands of constitutional ceases to be a Minister. There is nothing wrong with evolution as they develop—the big issues meshing in Prime Ministers choosing individuals as Ministers and with the more daily issues and the pragmatic, incremental putting them in the House of Lords. Indeed, that can aspects of reform—so that we have a more cohesive enhance our effectiveness and enable us to hold the picture as time goes on of how our constitution is Government better to account if we can question evolving. them here. But if some of those Ministers decide that We have our role as a revising Chamber and I they want little to do with this place after they leave believe it works pretty well. That probably explains office, as was the case with a number of Ministers in why the Prime Minister and the Government of the the previous Government, they should be encouraged day on the whole do not awfully like the House of to resign from the House at the same time as they step Lords, because we are doing our job pretty well. I down as Ministers. believe that our effectiveness would be strengthened, I am not going to follow my noble friend Lord however, by tackling this whole question of the size of Maxton in having a go at the Bishops’ Bench, particularly the Chamber. Like many noble Lords, my preference as it is currently empty. But I cannot resist the temptation is for a reformed appointed Chamber. The longer we to ask the Leader of the House, whose speech I am fail to tackle this issue of size, the more the pressure looking forward to in a moment, whether the Government will increase to introduce more radical reforms, which have plans to introduce legislation imminently to ensure for my part I would not support or approve of. that the first woman Bishop is appointed here before The present size is, I think, an impediment to being the end of this Parliament. I do not think anybody has an effective revising Chamber. I do not want to exaggerate mentioned that. it but the trend to increase the size of the Chamber is simply not tenable. Of course there are problems of YourLordships all understand that getting the number space. There is less scope to contribute. There are cost of Members of the House down without reducing the problems. There is no great merit in being the largest number of active Members will not do anything about second Chamber in the world. We know the figures—we reducing the cost of this House. Undoubtedly, we have have heard them time and again in the debate: we have to explain this better to the public and the media, who nearly 800 Members who are eligible to sit; average assume that just by getting rid of the old Members attendance is the highest at just under 500; and the somehow the cost of the House of Lords will come trend since 2000 has been an overall increase of 25%. down—it will not. What is important is that we do not compromise the quality of our debates or compromise I agree with all those who said that this House on what we are able to do in scrutinising legislation needs new blood regularly. It is important for the and holding the Government to account. That has House to have fresh expertise, fresh experience and, I been the theme of many speeches in this debate. The might say, younger people as well. But if we continue fact that that message is coming through so clearly is a with the current trend, it will not be long before we very good reason for having this debate. have more than 1,000 Members in this Chamber. That to my mind is totally unacceptable. We can all debate My noble friend Lord Williams has set the ball what would be an optimum size. I personally believe rolling. I hope now that the Procedure Committee will that somewhere in the region of 450 to 500 is about take it up and run with it and look at these issues right for the job we are trying to do and that we would properly in the weeks ahead. get the best value with that number. I very much 327 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 328 commend the views that have been expressed by the The 1999 Act and the provisions relating to the group of Labour Party Peers led by Lord Grenfell and retention of a small number of hereditary Peers were, the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, which has produced in the words of the Lord Chancellor of the time, some very constructive ideas that have contributed binding in honour on those who gave their undertaking very much to this debate. to it, and they said that they would continue until The difficult issues, as we have already heard, are House of Lords reform was complete. Perhaps House how to get the size of the House reduced. There is a of Lords reform was expected to be rather quicker very difficult balance to be struck. First, there is the than has proved to be the case, but no timescale was whole question of the balance of the parties and the mentioned at the time and I strongly believe that the fact that the Cross-Benchers must make up at least undertakings given then are still in force. They would 20% of the membership. That factor has all the time to have been overtaken had the government Bill of two be borne in mind when we are considering a reduction years ago seen the statute book, but it did not and in the size of the House. therefore they remain in place. When we consider retirement, we look first at the I therefore urge that the hereditary Peers are not voluntary aspect as well as, later on, at the mandatory seen as a short cut in the start of the process to which aspect. I believe quite firmly that voluntary retirement the noble Lord, Lord Williams, pointed the way. We on its own will not solve this problem. We have had a are not to be sent to the slaughter as the first and easy superb example set by Lord Jenkin of Roding, who step in this particular process. has officially retired today, and I join other noble My noble friend Lord MacGregor also made some Peers who have already said that they plan to retire in disparaging remarks about the by-elections, but due course. My decision is to retire in the next Parliament, 50 members of his Association of Conservative Peers during which time I shall reach the age of 80. I have a are hereditary Peers elected as I have described, and I principle in life that you ought to go before you are hope that he would wish to continue to enjoy their asked to go, which probably explains why many of the support as he does so strongly at present. jobs that I have held have been for a very short time. It Back in 1999, I gave an undertaking to the departing is a matter of individual judgment, and I do not wish hereditary Peers who were good enough to elect me to be judgmental on anyone else’s decision as for when that I would stand by their interests for as long as is the right time for them to go. It fits, however, with there was breath in my body. I reaffirm that undertaking one of the Labour Party’s proposals in its very good tonight. paper. I feel strongly that if we are to see a balanced 8.14 pm reduction in the size of the House, it can be done only with some kind of a mandatory system. Today we Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab): My Lords, the have heard a wide range of ideas, such as retiring noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, would have made a very during the Parliament in which you become 80; ending good shop steward. your time after 15 years; having an electoral system for It is a great pleasure for me to wind up for the each group in the House as to who should retire; a cap Opposition and to congratulate my noble friend Lord on the size of the House; or retirement based on Williams. He has stimulated a very high-quality debate. seniority. There is no shadow of doubt that whatever Turkeys we may be, but pretty erudite turkeys at that. proposal comes forward, there will be large body of I support my noble friend in asking the Leader of opinion against it—we have already heard that. There the House to encourage discussions within the appropriate will objections to every single one of these proposals. committees of your Lordships’ House on the issue of At the end of the day, my view is this: if there is a size and, by definition, retirements, but I should say will in the House to reduce its size, then we will find a from the Opposition’s point of view that any discussion way. But there has to be a will to do that job; without about size and retirements cannot be divorced from that, we cannot succeed. I hope that the idea proposed equally important considerations about the balance of by the noble Lord, Lord Williams, of setting up a parties and Cross-Benchers in your Lordships’ House committee to examine this matter carefully will be and any implications that might have for an incoming taken forward. It will take time, as the noble Lord, Government after May 2015. Nor can such a discussion Lord Cormack, has implied—you cannot do this kind be divorced from more substantive discussions about of thing overnight. It should not cut across longer-term the future of your Lordships’ House. considerations which will emerge in due course. However, I congratulate my noble friend on his ingenuity in it would be a serious mistake to let this matter drift. suggesting essentially the use of Standing Orders to We would provide an even better service to the country introduce a limit on the number of active Members of as a revising Chamber if we were bold enough to your Lordships’ House. However, I have reservations tackle this issue of size. about that, as does my noble friend Lord Clark. I do not believe that it could be in the gift of this House, 8.12 pm through Standing Orders and in the absence of legislation, Lord Trefgarne: My Lords, I will with your Lordships’ simply to state that a certain number should be the permission make a very brief intervention at this late limit. I also agree with my noble friend Lady Taylor in point. I am here because I am one of the hereditary being concerned that my noble friend Lord Williams’s Peers elected back in 1999 following the passage of the proposal, as enunciated, would lock in the current Act of that year. Ninety of us were elected altogether, balance of this House into the next Parliament. That two of us being appointed ex officio, as my noble said, he has surely performed an invaluable function in friend Lord Luce will recall. stimulating an excellent debate. 329 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 330

Of course, many noble Lords—in both this debate I hope that the Leader of the House will be able to and the corridors of the House of Lords—express give some consideration to the points raised by the concern about the growing size of the House. Yet a noble Lords, Lord Sutherland and Lord Forsyth, about very full Question Time actually adds to the interest procedures and the point raised by my noble friend Lord and intensity—as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, Foulkes about the role of the Speaker. Governance is said, certainly by implication, when he talked about another issue. We have just had a report from the Select the decision of Attlee and Churchill in relation to the Committee established to look at governance in the size of the Commons. It is certainly true that in some Commons. It suggested more joint working between the debates speakers are given impossibly short periods of Commons and the Lords. At the very least, we should time, but those are a rarity. Overall, the House has look at that to see how we might respond in a positive way. responded quite well to the increase in numbers. I Size is clearly another matter that we could discuss suggest that this is not so much a question of the size now in an interim period, assuming that substantive having an impact on the effectiveness of the House but change will take some years to come. I already said that rather more on our reputation. any agreement on a scheme to set a limit on the size of your Lordships’ House has to take account of an Given the patronage power held by the Prime Minister appropriate balance between the political parties and of the day to determine the size and balance of the the Cross Benches. That is very important. The noble House, it is always likely to increase in size. The noble Lord, Lord Luce, said earlier that the House of Lords Lord, Lord Strathclyde, who was very much welcomed is an effective body. However, crucially, for it to be to our debate, welcomed new blood—particularly Tory effective, Governments have to face defeat—or fear it new blood, because we have had rather a lot of it in —because in the end that is the only way that changes recent years. I do not want to go back and repeat what to legislation are made. There is no question that there noble Lords said about the coalition agreement stating is a difference between what happened from 1997 to 2010 that the size of the House should reflect the votes cast and what has happened subsequently. The last Labour at the last election. We know from Meg Russell’s Government was defeated 528 times in 1,701 Divisions excellent work that, if fully implemented, that agreement —some 31% of the total. We are now in a new position. would have meant that by the end of this Parliament With coalition government, it is effectively much harder we would have had more than 1,000 Members. for an Opposition to win votes. Therefore, the number We know that, going forward, if you then take of votes the Opposition win is less than 31%. account of changes in the votes cast at the next My point is that this is important, because unless election, the issues of minority parties and parties that Governments really fear defeat, the House of Lords have a reduction in the number of votes cast, that cannot be effective as a proper revising Chamber. almost becomes the baseline by which you then judge When I was a Minister, I knew that if the Opposition how many seats have to be appointed for the other combined with Cross-Benchers on key points of concern parties that have increased their votes. That is clearly a about legislation, one way or another, we had to nonsense. I hope that the noble Baroness, the Leader respond. Sometimes it would be toughed out through of the House, will respond to that point. The particular ping-pong, but more often we had to respond. That reason that it is a nonsense is because there is no route precious balance between the two Houses ensures the for significant numbers of Members to leave the House. effectiveness of the second Chamber. Until that is grasped and some kind of understanding I say in conclusion simply that it is right to think is reached about what should be the appropriate balance about ways in which we can deal with the size of the between the parties and the Cross Benches, it will be House, but we must be very careful that in so doing we very difficult to implement the kind of scheme that do not upset the precious balance between the two noble Lords want. Houses and the role of the Government and the Opposition in your Lordships’ House. I am most My party, as noble Lords said, is committed after grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. It has the election to a constitutional convention that will been an excellent debate and we all look forward to look at the place of the second Chamber in the context the noble Baroness’s response. of political reform throughout the United Kingdom. That is a much more considered approach than that of 8.25 pm the party opposite and its recent headlong rush to foist an ill-thought-out policy on English MPs without a The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) thought for the wider consequences for the integrity of (Con): My Lords, I am pleased to be able to respond to the union. We have to consider these matters in the today’s debate and that the noble Lord, Lord Williams round. of Elvel, has given us this opportunity. We have had some very wise contributions from all sides of the Of course, on the assumption that the constitutional House today, and I have listened carefully to all noble convention leads to a successful conclusion in relation Lords who have spoken. to your Lordships’ House, followed by legislation and I shall briefly refer to two absent noble Lords. The then implementation, it would clearly be a little time first one I refer to in the interests of the coalition. before the substantive change were actually to take Noble Lords have referred to the absence on the speakers place. There are lots of ifs in that journey, so I disagree list of any Members on the Liberal Democrat Benches. with my noble friend Lord Maxton. There is a case for The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, was due to speak, but the House trying to deal with some of our immediate at the last minute a personal matter required him to challenges in advance of that substantial change, if it have to scratch from today’s debate. It is important were to come about. that that is noted. 331 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 332

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: My Lords, I absolutely wide range of expertise, experiences and perspectives accept that if the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, had something to our debates. Those insights, and those strong and else to keep him from coming, he should be excused independent voices, come from all around this House. and there is no criticism of him for that, but there are My noble friend Lord Forsyth said this and is himself 101 other Liberal Democrats. evidence of it: those of us who sit on the political Benches, as well as the Cross Benches and the Bishops’ Benches, bring an independent mind, experience and Baroness Stowell of Beeston: I do not want to get expertise to the work of this House. into any more debate on the Liberal Democrat Benches’ representation; I just wanted to make that point. The noble Lord, Lord Clark of Windermere, paid tribute to experts such as those from the medical My noble friend Lord Wakeham was also very keen profession who are Members of this House. The noble to contribute to the debate today, but he is unwell. I Lord, Lord Walton, made a similar point but it is know that he would have made a very important important for us to remember that the Cross Benches contribution had he been here. are not the only places where we find expertise in this At the heart of all the contributions that have been House. I add that the kinds of expertise and experience made to this debate is a shared goal: to make this which we often point to as the best examples of the House the best, most effective Chamber possible. Of membership of this House are not the only kinds course I understand the position put forward by the which are valuable. During the Recess I had the great noble Lord, Lord Williams, and some others: that our pleasure of listening to the noble Baroness, Lady size affects our ability to be effective and may risk our Prosser, speak on the “Jeremy Vine” programme on reputation. However, whether or how to reduce the Radio 2. She was explaining to the listeners there how number of Peers attending the House each day is not she, as a former deputy secretary of the Transport and where I want to start my contribution to the debate. General Workers’ Union, made sure that she remained I want us not just to be effective but to be seen to be up-to-date in her knowledge of the manufacturing the most relevant British institution operating in our sector by going out to visit lots of factories for her world today. In my eyes, regardless of debates about own contribution to the work of this House. My point the composition of this House and its future, we exist is that we have in this House experts and people with today as an unelected House with an important job to valuable experience who are working hard to maintain do. It has been evident from today’s contributions that the relevance of that experience. Whatever changes we we all want this House to do that job as best we can. consider when we look at the way in which we operate, To achieve our goal, I believe that we should be driven it is important to be careful that these features of our by our purpose as a House. That was a point that the membership are protected and encouraged because noble Lord, Lord Butler, and my noble friend Lord they are what makes us different and a valued part of Wei made. My definition of purpose is not just what the parliamentary process. we exist to do—I think that we all agree that we are a To be clear, as my noble friends Lord Strathclyde revising Chamber seeking to help to make good laws and Lord MacGregor said, I, too, think that we need and inform public policy. My definition of purpose to keep refreshing our experience and expertise with also includes the answer to the question: why is that new Members. The noble Lord, Lord Walton, referred important? For me, the answer to that is this: it is to to the moment of wonder when he was first appointed give people confidence in the laws that we are all to this House and seemed to suggest that, in recent required to live by. Giving the people we serve confidence years, it was being lost a little from your Lordships’ in the laws that Parliament makes is what informs my House. I reassure him and all noble Lords that the views and my contribution to the debate today. people who are joining our House now are just as In the context of today’s debate, the main thing I filled with excitement about their own opportunity to would highlight that I think that we should not change, make a contribution to our work as the noble Lord because it is a valuable part of our fulfilling our would have been at the time when he joined. I have the purpose, is the part-time nature of this House. The great pleasure of meeting a lot of the new Members noble Lord, Lord Gordon of Strathblane, and my just before they arrive—certainly, the ones who sit on noble friend Lord Cope mentioned that. For me, “part my Benches—and I continue to talk to them. time” means that we have a duty to come to this House For me, the real issue is not about the absolute when we have something to contribute because of our numbers of Members eligible to participate in our expertise and outside experience, especially on legislation. work but, as the noble Lord, Lord Williams, suggests However, the noble Lord, Lord Walton of Detchant, in his Motion, about attendance. However, like my was right to emphasise the important work of the noble friends Lord Tugendhat and Lord Cormack, Select Committees, too. I would put legislation at the and other noble Lords, even on that matter I do not top of the list of our important work, but Select believe that it is strictly about numbers either. It is Committees are a valuable part of what we do here as about how we make sure that Members play their part well. at the right time. Although each party and group Because Members are not expected to attend every rightly has its own requirements for attendance, which sitting, it is open to us—that is, noble Lords other is proper and goes to a point made by the noble Lord, than those of us who are a member of the Government Lord Foulkes, what is really important is whether each or on the Front Bench—to pursue other interests, of us can say that we have done our bit—that we have activities and professions alongside our work in the used our valid experience and expertise at the right House. That allows us to draw upon some of the most time, in the public interest, to help us as a House to accomplished individuals in this country and bring a fulfil our purpose. 333 House of Lords[LORDS] House of Lords 334

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: The Minister has stressed Clearly we cannot keep growing indefinitely, and the concept—I find this completely new; it was not that is one of the reasons why we have introduced a given to me when I was appointed—that this is a massive change in this Parliament: Peers are now able part-time job. It may be possible to be a part-timer if to retire permanently. That change reinforces our ability the rest of your work is in London, but if you come to give the public confidence in the laws that Parliament from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen or Carlisle how makes. Just as we should expect Members to contribute can you do something up there and come down here on occasions when they are especially well placed to day in and day out? It is an entirely London-centred do so, so we are now able to support noble Lords who concept. I hope that she will rethink this, and go back wish to retire when they feel that that is no longer the to whoever advised her on it and say that it is just a lot case for them. Some noble Lords have argued against of nonsense. an age limit; some, like my noble friend Lord Naseby, have spoken in support of one. Consideration about Baroness Stowell of Beeston: I disagree with the retirement is not just a matter of age; it is also a matter noble Lord about that. I think that this is a part-time of contribution, a point made by those speaking today. House. I am not here to prescribe how or whether a Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: Answer my question. contribution can be specified, because retirement is a deeply personal decision. We were all moved by Lord Baroness Stowell of Beeston: When I say “right Jenkin’s valedictory speech, and I am pleased that the time”, I mean that it does not have to be all the time. noble Lord, Lord Blair of Boughton, quoted from it Some of the rarest contributors can be the most today. However, if we focus on the purpose of the valuable Members of this House if they exercise self- House of Lords and are committed to increasing our restraint, a point well made by the noble Lord, Lord effectiveness as an unelected Chamber, we should be Sutherland. able to support each other in deciding when it is time I am not going to comment on each proposal put to retire. forward today and I am certainly not going to rule I turn to some of the points that noble Lords made anything out before there is an opportunity for proper about the need for restraint in new appointments. As consideration. The noble Lord, Lord Butler, urged me has been acknowledged, the Motion of the noble Lord, to take this matter seriously and I do, but I also say to Lord Williams, focuses on attendance, not appointments. noble Lords that we must guard against sounding too That said, the Prime Minister has indeed exercised his defeatist in the way that we speak about this House prerogative power to recommend appointments in a and the number of Peers who attend. Some noble restrained way. I dispute what the noble Lord, Lord Lords have used what I thought was rather colourful Berkeley of Knighton, said, not least because my language, which I would not deploy myself, to describe noble friend Lord Strathclyde asked me to confirm this House. Right now we are doing a good job. We whether there are only 34 more Members on the four remain a strong and considered revising Chamber, one main Benches than there were in 2007. That is incorrect. where a noble Lord, whether a Minister or a member In the light of the retirement of Lord Jenkin, today of the Back Benches, will always have to make a the number is 33. It has gone down. compelling case to win an argument and the support The idea of a moratorium on appointments was of the House. The Opposition waste no opportunity put forward by some noble Lords. As I have already to highlight that the Government have been defeated said, and this has been supported by noble Lords today, over 100 times during this Parliament, so I was a little it is right that there continue to be new appointments surprised at the way in which the noble Lord, Lord to this House so that we may bring fresh views and Hunt of Kings Heath, represented what has happened perspectives to our work. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt over the past few years. The other point that is worth of Kings Heath, referred to vote share and the coalition making is that in terms of the effectiveness of the agreement. That was in the coalition agreement. It is contributions made by noble Lords in our debates— and has always been a general aim, not a mathematical equation, but it is worth pointing out that during this Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: Would the Minister not Parliament the Prime Minister has appointed 47 Labour agree that coalition government changes the dynamic Peers as well as Conservative and Liberal Democrat Peers. of the second Chamber? We can trade statistics but there is no doubt about it: the Government are winning Some noble Lords raised questions about the pressures more votes than the previous one did, and that is on our practices, procedures and resources. Of course clearly because the two government parties together we should try to mitigate them. On specific matters of have a large majority over the Opposition. That was procedure and practice, I set out my views in some not the case under the previous Government. It makes detail during the short debate last month led by the a difference. noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, so I shall not repeat them, except to say that I disagree with him about the role of Baroness Stowell of Beeston: We do not have a the Lord Speaker. I believe that it is important that we majority because there are Cross-Benchers in this properly respect and uphold our self-regulating nature House, as the noble Lord knows well. The point that I because it is again about being different from the was going to add was that we should not measure the Commons, and the fact that we are different adds effect of the contributions made in this House just by value to what happens in the parliamentary process. government defeats. A huge number of government I understand that the noble Lord, Lord Williams, amendments are made to legislation as a result of has spoken to the chairman of the Procedure Committee, dialogue with noble Lords during the passage of who has indicated that he is willing to provide the legislation. undertaking that the noble Lord is seeking, namely 335 House of Lords[6 JANUARY 2015] House of Lords 336 that that committee should consider the issue he has we move forward, this is our core purpose, which we raised with a view to reporting back to the House. I must keep at the forefront of our minds. If we do that, think that that is an appropriate next step as part of an we can retain what is best about this place and make ongoing discussion. My noble friends Lord Strathclyde the right changes so that we increase our effectiveness and Lord MacGregor, the noble Lord, Lord Butler, and are the most relevant British institution, serving and others suggested an options paper by the Clerk to the public and national interest today. inform the discussion of the Procedure Committee. A range of ideas has been put forward today by my Lord Trefgarne: My Lords, will the Procedure noble friends Lord Jopling, Lord MacGregor and Lord Committee—to which the proposals of the noble Lord, Wei, the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, the noble Lord, Lord Williams, are being submitted—report before Lord Richard, and others, so there is quite a lot to the end of this Parliament? feed in to any discussion that may take place in the Baroness Stowell of Beeston: I am sorry; I was just Procedure Committee. I would like that discussion to looking at a note that has been passed to me. I think be informed by our purpose of ensuring that there is the noble Lord asked whether there would be a report public confidence in the laws of the land and in what from the Procedure Committee before the end of this Parliament decides and to consider how we can be Parliament. That is a matter for that committee. I will clear about what we expect from each other in contributing correct one thing that I said a moment ago in response to that purpose. to the noble Lord who asked me about allowances. I want to be specific in response to any suggestion That is a matter for the House Committee, not the that taxpayers’ money might be made available to Procedure Committee. Apart from that, my point was encourage Members to retire. That remains very much correct: that would ultimately have to come to the a red line for me. That is not something that I want to Floor of the House in any case. support at all, for the reasons that other noble Lords have given today. The noble Lord, Lord Clark of Lord Williams of Elvel: Can the noble Baroness Windermere, asked about mechanisms, and the noble please clarify the question of when she thinks the Lord, Lord Williams, was clear when he said that any Procedure Committee should report? Either it should mechanisms that we consider will be voluntary. report before the end of this Parliament, as I think the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, said, or it goes into the My noble friend Lord Cope is right that our powers Greek kalends. Which is the preferred alternative? to self-regulate go far, but they do not override Her Majesty the Queen’s power in the Life Peerages Act to Baroness Stowell of Beeston: I do not have a preferred create peerages for life with rights to sit and vote or the alternative. We have demonstrated today, as I said Prime Minister’s right to put forward to Her Majesty before, that we all care about this House and our recommendations for appointments. However, while I ability to do our job very well. A huge number of am on the matter of regulation, I can respond to the proposals are coming forward from noble Lords about noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, who asked how we can do our job even better than we do it now. about legislation to accelerate the appointment of We should make decisions about that in a considered women Bishops. A government Bill on that had its and proper way. To rush any decisions about changes First Reading in the Commons just before Christmas, would not be the best way for us to fulfil our ultimate so that is proceeding. and shared goal. 8.48 pm Lord Clark of Windermere: My Lords, the noble Baroness referred to my question about voluntary Lord Williams of Elvel: My Lords, I am grateful to mechanisms. We do not have the power to stop Members all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. We coming to the House, but do we have the power to can agree on only two things. First, it is a good thing stop them receiving allowances for overnight stays and to have untimed debates, so noble Lords are able to for travel? express themselves without any time pressure, and there can be interventions; that is good. Secondly, we share the fact that we all have pride in membership of Baroness Stowell of Beeston: We have, but we would this House and we all wish it well in our own way. have to agree on that—it would have to be put to the Beyond that, a variety of things were spoken about. I House to decide, not the Procedure Committee on its do not intend to wind up in the way that is customary own. in these debates, because I want to make clear that I I will rapidly conclude. As for the idea of a am not in favour of giving more power to the Whips, constitutional convention—which was put forward by or in favour of full-time politicians; I am not in favour several noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord of all sorts of things I have been accused of. However, Foulkes, Lord Maxton and Lord Luce, the noble Baroness, I am in favour of the Procedure Committee getting on Lady Taylor, and my noble friend Lord Cormack—I with something, as the noble Lords, Lord Naseby and refer all noble Lords back to the answers I gave when I Lord Luce, pointed out. Let us do something. There is repeated the Statement on devolution just before of course the contrary view—that we should wait and Christmas. We have not ruled out a constitutional do nothing. That is for the House to decide. I thank all convention, but certainly the Conservative part of the noble Lords and thank the Leader of the House for coalition thinks that other, more immediate issues her response. I beg to move. should be addressed first. Motion agreed. Overall, this has been a very interesting debate which continues an important conversation. However House adjourned at 8.49 pm.

WS 47 Written Statements[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Statements WS 48

This Government is pursuing a comprehensive Strategy, Written Statements based on best international practice, supported by Tuesday 6 January 2015 leading vets and endorsed by the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Defra’s Chief Scientist and the Chief Veterinary Officer. This approach includes cattle Anti-corruption Plan movement restrictions, badger vaccination in the edge Statement area (bordering the high risk area) and culling where the disease is rife. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Cattle measures remain at the heart of the Strategy for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) and that is why we have steadily reinforced them over (Con): My right honourable friend the Minister for this Parliament. In the coming months we plan to Business and Enterprise and Energy (Matthew Hancock) launch a consultation on further cattle measures including has today made the following Statement. statutory post-movement testing for cattle entering Today I am making a joint Statement with my the low risk area. This measure will help us remain on honourable friend the Minister for Modern Slavery course to achieve TB free status for the low risk area of and Organised Crime (Karen Bradley). Together we England by 2019. wish to inform the house that the Government is On 2 September 2014, I announced our Badger publishing the UK’s first cross-government anti-corruption Edge Vaccination Scheme which will create a buffer plan. zone to help prevent the spread of TB to new parts of Corruption harms societies, undermines economic the country. We are working closely with wildlife development and threatens democracy. organisations, vets and farmers to establish large areas The UK is recognised as having strong institutions, within which a high proportion of the badger population and has led the way in implementing world-leading will be vaccinated for a minimum of four years. legislative standards through the Bribery Act 2010. But we recognise that more can be done to improve Badger culls were carried out in the autumn. Culling our coordination at home and better manage how we ended on 20 October 2014 and I am today publishing deal with bribery and corruption overseas. the report and supporting data of the independently audited results. I have placed the summary report and As part of our second Open Government Partnership the Chief Veterinary Officer’s advice in the Library of National Action Plan, we committed to bring together the House. all of the UK’s anti-corruption efforts under one cross-government plan. This plan will bring more In West Somerset, 341 badgers were safely and coordination and coherence to our efforts and ensure humanely removed, against a minimum of 316, while that future activity to tackle corruption is joined up in West Gloucestershire, 274 badgers were safely and and collaborative. humanely removed, against a minimum of 615. The The plan highlights that our priorities are to: build results in Somerset show that this approach works. a better picture of how corruption is affecting our The results in Gloucestershire reflect the challenges of society and economy; strengthen our legal and operational extensive unlawful protest and intimidation. tools and activity; enhance our law enforcement response; The Chief Veterinary Officer reviewed the effectiveness deny use of our financial system for those who are and humaneness data and supports the continuation trying to abuse it; and step up our efforts internationally. of culling by a combination of cage trapping and In my role as the Government Anti-Corruption controlled shooting as part of our comprehensive Champion I will jointly chair, with the Minister for strategy. In his view the outcome of this year’s cull in Modern Slavery and Organised Crime, an Inter Ministerial Somerset indicates that industry-led culling can, in the Group to oversee delivery of the plan. We will work right circumstances, deliver the level of effectiveness with colleagues across government and civil society to required to be confident of achieving disease control drive forward work on this agenda. benefits. A copy of the plan will be placed in the House Library. It will also be available on the government As part of our focus on practical measures to website: www.gov.uk. reduce the risk of disease spread, I am today publishing a Biosecurity Action Plan developed by industry and government. We have recently awarded £50,000 in Bovine TB small grants to livestock markets to support voluntary Statement risk-based trading of cattle and we have been working with the private sector to develop a TB-risk accreditation The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department system for cattle herds. To help all farmers manage the for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord De risk of TB we plan in early 2015 to launch a web-based Mauley) (Con): Today I am updating the House on the map showing locations of TB breakdowns and to measures we have taken to tackle TB in cattle since we publish TB reports for the edge and low risk areas. We published our Strategy in April 2014. will also be starting a trial of a new service to provide farmers within the two badger cull areas with bespoke Between 1997 and 2010, TB in cattle increased advice on how better to protect their farms from TB. nine-fold, threatening the future of our beef and dairy industries and our food security. England has the TB can also affect other animals and humans. We highest incidence of TB in Europe, and that is why we have introduced additional TB measures for South are taking strong action to beat the disease. American camelids including statutory compensation WS 49 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 50 and consolidated existing legislation concerning TB in contract (with options to extend to 15 years) worth deer. We are planning a further review of TB controls some £900 million has been agreed for the delivery of in non-bovine animals. DSG services and the transformation of the Army’s We have continued to invest in TB research and I vehicle maintenance, repair and storage. The contract am today publishing a summary of the research that covers the DSG’s fleet management and engineering we are funding this year. Over this Parliament, we support services and will generate savings to the Army have invested over £24 million into TB vaccine research. of around £500 million over the 10-year period—a An independent report on the design of field trials of saving of over a third. This contract has the potential cattle vaccine and a test to detect infected cattle among to grow to around £2 billion as a broader scope of vaccinated cattle (DIVA) shows that before cattle services under the DSG sale contract are optimised, vaccination field trials can be contemplated, we need subject to value for money, as part of the planned to develop a better DIVA test. This research is likely to programme. take a further two years. We are also investing in Babcock has more than 15 years’ experience of research on badger diagnostics and improving working closely with the Army in vehicle support epidemiological analysis of the disease, while the dairy work, standing it in good stead to partner successfully industry is progressing Defra-funded research potentially with the Army and transform the DSG land business. to enable farmers to breed cattle with greater genetic The company will also use its expertise in engineering resistance to TB. and fleet management to build on the work that the Finally, I am pleased to confirm that the European DSG’s highly skilled workforce currently carry out Commission has informed us that our comprehensive and progressively to transform the business to provide TB eradication programme is approved, securing further end-to-end support and equipment availability to the financial support from the European Union in 2015. Army. The Government is determined to continue Babcock has committed to develop the DSG land implementing all elements of our comprehensive Strategy business, putting it in a strong position for the future. until this terrible disease is eradicated. Furthermore, Babcock has already identified commercial This Statement included the following attachments: work from elsewhere in the Babcock Group that it will bring into the DSG. This will not only grow the DSG Summary of badger control monitoring during 2014 (26. summary- badger-control-monitoring.pdf) land business but will also exploit economies of scale CVO’s advice on outcome of year 2 of badger culls (26. CVO- to reduce overheads, thus improving the cost effectiveness advice.pdf) of the services provided to the Army. Ownership by Babcock will therefore put the DSG land business on a sustainable long-term footing and British Council Annual Report ensure the Army retains access to the DSG’s equipment Statement support services. All DSG staff in scope of the sale will become The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Babcock employees on 1 April 2015. They will transfer Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): My right under Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of honourable friend the Minister of State (Mr Hugo Employment) (TUPE) regulations, which protect their Swire) has made the following Written Ministerial terms and conditions on transfer. The New Fair Deal Statement. also ensures continued membership of civil service Copies of the British Council’s Annual Report and pension schemes for those eligible. The Ministry of Accounts for the 2013-14 financial year have been Defence (MOD), with the support of Babcock, will placed in the Libraries of both Houses. The Report conduct a TUPE consultation with the DSG workforce can also be found at the British Council’s website and the DSG Trade Unions. The first consultation www.britishcouncil.org meeting with the national and local DSG Trade Union During the period the British Council received representatives, Babcock, DSG management and the £162,400,000 Grant-in-Aid from the Foreign & MOD is taking place tomorrow. Commonwealth Office. DSG estate will not be sold but will be retained in This Statement included the following attachment: MOD ownership and leased or licensed to Babcock. British Council Annual Report 2013-14 (British Council Babcock will lead a business improvement programme Annual Report 2013-14.pdf) over several years which is aimed at optimising the output performance of the business. Detailed plans will not be known until Babcock has had a chance to Defence Support Group understand the business fully and completed their Statement review. Until then, MOD is providing as much detail as it can as part of the TUPE consultation process. No The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry MOD sites will be closed on sale. We are confident of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): My honourable Babcock will provide an open and professional approach friend the Minister for Defence Equipment, Support to these activities. and Technology (Mr Philip Dunne) has made the As I announced on 19 November, DSG’s air business, following Written Ministerial Statement. the Electronics and Components Business Unit, will I am pleased to announce the successful sale of the be retained in MOD from 1 April 2015 as the Defence Defence Support Group (DSG) land business to Babcock Electronics and Components Agency (DECA), a new for £140 million. As part of the transaction, a 10-year MOD Trading Agency. WS 51 Written Statements[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Statements WS 52

I will make a separate announcement in due This underlines how the Government has done course regarding the competition that the MOD is much to establish Britain as a safer place for Jewish also running for the transformation of the MOD’s people. Levels of antisemitism in the UK are significantly Logistics Commodities and Services organisation, which lower than in other Western European countries. shares sites with DSG at Ashchurch and Donnington. However, this summer’s sharp increase in the number of antisemitic incidents reinforced both the need for increased vigilance and also the need to reassure the Departmental Work (Christmas Recess) public that those who commit hate crimes will be Statement punished with the full force of the law. This commitment must be replicated wholeheartedly The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department by councils who should use their position of authority for Communities and Local Government (Lord Ahmad to actively reduce tensions, not stir them up. of Wimbledon) (Con): My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government Councils to help get Britain building (Eric Pickles) has made the following Written Ministerial We announced the second round of funding via the Statement. housing revenue account borrowing programme. This I would like to update honourable Members on the means that 21 councils will be able to additionally main items of business undertaken by my Department borrow almost £100 million over the next 2 years to since the House rose for the Christmas Recess. deliver more than 1,300 new affordable homes and Troubled Families programme support local growth. We published the latest quarterly returns submitted This comes only a matter of months after 22 councils to the Department from local authorities on progress received approval to borrow £122 million to build with the Government’s Troubled Families programme. more than 1,700 affordable homes in their areas—and These new figures show that the programme has takes the total to £222 million government investment now helped turn around the lives of over 85,000 of the to deliver over 3,000 affordable homes. hardest to help households. This is on top of the wider efforts we are making, Councils and social services departments are now with housebuilding a central part of the Government’s actively working with 99 per cent of the families the long-term economic plan: since 2010 over half a million Prime Minister pledged to support—and councils have new homes have been delivered, including more than had payments-by-results for two thirds of these. 200,000 affordable homes. Housebuilding levels are This means that in 85,303 troubled families in England: now at their highest since 2007 and climbing with • children have been back in school for a year when council housing starts at a 23-year high. they were previously truant or excluded; Planning reforms puts power back in the hands of • youth crime and anti-social behaviour has been local residents significantly cut across the whole family; or We are seeing a genuine neighbourhood planning • an adult in the home has moved off benefits and movement with communities in almost two-thirds of into work for 3 months or more. local authorities already using these powers to shape The success of the programme means that a second what gets built where in their local area. This means wave of councils are now beginning work with more more than 5 million people now live in a neighbourhood families ahead of schedule, and up to 40,000 additional planning area and so far there have been some great families can begin to be helped by dedicated workers proposals from renovating disused buildings to creating in this financial year in the highest-performing areas. new community orchards and playing fields. But agreeing The Troubled Families programme demonstrates an area for a neighbourhood plan to cover takes an exactly what our long-term economic plan means for average of 19 weeks. people—that is, new opportunities for families to turn We are bringing in new measures that will cut weeks their lives around and make something of themselves; off this process—giving councils just 13 weeks to more economic security for local communities blighted consider a community’s application to create a by worklessness, and more economic stability for taxpayers, neighbourhood area, or 8 weeks where it follows a as we reduce the bills for social failure and get this parish boundary. country living within its means. Government action on antisemitism This will encourage even more communities to have a greater say over the future development of their We published a new government report highlighting area. the significant progress this Government has made in partnership with the community in tackling antisemitism. New guide will better connect our new homes to vital The report outlines the actions undertaken across a services number of areas: improving the collection of antisemitic We have published a new practical guide which will, hate crime data, fighting cyberhate crime, extending for the first time, offer a clear code of practice setting Holocaust education and remembrance and addressing out how utility companies and developers should work antisemitism internationally. together when building a new housing development. It also acts as our final report on the original 35 This is a significant step in speeding up the process of recommendations made by the All-Party Parliamentary getting new developments connected to gas, water and Inquiry into Antisemitism. We consider we have addressed electricity, as part of push to help hardworking people all the recommendations to government. get into their new homes sooner. WS 53 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 54

It will also drive up the performance of utilities Councils and media invited to bring statutory notices companies across the board by providing a clear set of into 21st century standards and making it crystal clear how developers Statutory notices are an important way of ensuring and companies should be working together to make local residents are informed of decisions that affect sure more developments are completed on time and their property and lives—but public bodies must do on budget. more than just provide an obscure notice in the depths of a council’s website. New measures to reduce red tape for house builders and reforms to help protect tenants That is why we have invited councils, local newspapers and others to take part in piloting ways of improving We have published the Department’s latest half-yearly the provision of essential information to the public, Statement of New Regulation, which details all regulation, using new technology and innovation to bring municipal including EU measures, which are expected to come statutory notices into the 21st century. into force between 1 January and 30 June 2015, as well A plain English guide to planning as all regulations to be removed. Since 2010 this Government has introduced wide The Department has made considerable progress in ranging reforms of the planning system, which include: slashing red tape and saving business money, especially the National Planning Policy Framework (https:// through the Housing Standards Review which is estimated www.gov.uk/government/publications/national- to save business around £100 million per year whilst planning-policy-framework--2), which replaced over ensuring that homes are still built to demanding quality, 1,000 pages of disparate policy with one 50-page, access and sustainability standards. clearly-written document; safeguarding the green belt, giving councils new It is important to recognise the achievements of not powers to protect assets of community value, preventing only deregulation but better regulation which will garden grabbing and protecting valuable open green provide great benefits to businesses and individual spaces; citizens. The Department will reduce the time to qualify the introduction of Neighbourhood Plans (https:// for Right to Buy from 5 to 3 years, allowing social www.gov.uk/government/policies/giving- housing tenants to become homeowners quicker and communities-more-power-in-planning-local- enhance the transparency of letting agents’ fees. However, development/supporting-pages/neighbourhood- there is still more to be done and in 2015 the Department planning), devolving planning power to local people; will continue to deliver further reforms to cut red tape, and save business money and promote economic growth an overhaul of the Local Plan (https://www.gov.uk/ Councils urged to boost access to free-to-use cash government/policies/giving-communities-more- machines on high streets power-in-planning-local-development/supporting- pages/local-plans) making process, giving local planning We have issued advice to councils, to ensure they authorities more choice in how they are developed, use their local business rate discount powers to ensure and ensuring the process is more transparent. better access to cash machines in all areas and on our Yesterday we published a new Plain English Guide high streets. so anyone looking to have a say over the future development of their local area will have all the Companies who install and operate cash machines information they need at their fingertips. generally pay business rates to the local authority for each machine. Small convenience stores can however The guide makes clear how England’s planning struggle with this despite there being help available system works, and highlights the opportunities for from government that reduces costs by offering business people to get involved in the debate over what gets rates discounts to these firms. built in their neighbourhood. A separate guide also published yesterday explains Councils opting to provide a local discount on rates how the planning system works for anyone looking to can incentivise shops and cash point providers to set up a free school. install new machines and remove charges on pay-to-use I am placing in the Library of the House copies of machines—and with over half of all payments in the the press notices and documents associated with these UK still made with cash, we are clear that people announcements. should not have to pay through the nose to access their money. EU: Balance of Competences Review This is one of a range of measures the Government Statement has taken to support local businesses and help rejuvenate high streets and town centres. Others include: The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth • a 50% business rates discount for 18 months for Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): My right new businesses setting up in stores vacant for a honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign more than a year; and a and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. • cut in business rates for small shops, a new £1,500 I wish to update the House on the progress of the retail discount and doubling small business rate Balance of Competences Review that my right honourable relief - which is helping an estimated half a million friend the former Secretary of State for Foreign and small firms Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague) launched WS 55 Written Statements[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Statements WS 56 on behalf of the Government in July 2012. I am European Explanatory Memoranda pleased to inform the House that the fourth and final Statement set of reports has been published today on the gov.uk website at https://www.gov.uk/review-of-the-balance- Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): My right honourable of-competences. As per the Written Ministerial Statement friend the Minister for Cabinet Office and Paymaster of 23 October 2012, the reports were written by lead General (Francis Maude) has made the following Written departments for each policy area. This set of reports Ministerial Statement. covers Economic and Monetary Policy; Education, Vocational Training and Youth;Enlargement; Information The Cabinet Office is responsible for the Government’s Rights; Police and Criminal Justice; Subsidiarity and participation in European negotiations on EU Proportionality; and Voting, Consular and Statistics. procurement matters. It is with regret that Explanatory Memoranda on 3 EU proposals submitted for scrutiny With publication of this final set of reports, all 32 by Parliament which were the responsibility of my reports in the Balance of Competences Review are Department were submitted late, with the result that now complete. The Review provides the most extensive decisions were taken on the proposals in the Council analysis of EU membership ever undertaken by any of Ministers before the UK’s Parliamentary scrutiny Member State and draws upon nearly 2300 pieces of process could be completed. The proposals were: evidence to consider the impact that EU action has on EU Council document 12859/14; COM(2014)539: the UK national interest and future challenges that Proposal for a Council Decision establishing the may arise. In doing so, it provides an important position to be taken by the European Union within contribution to the ongoing debate on EU reform and the Committee on Government Procurement on will be a valuable aid for future policy-makers, as well the withdrawal of the Union objections to the as a resource to enable people to judge for themselves delisting of three entities from Japan’s Annex 3 to how current arrangements are working. Appendix I to the Agreement on Government Calls for evidence for fourth semester reports were Procurement. The proposal was adopted in the published in March 2014. We saw a high level of Council of Ministers on 29 October 2014. interest and received nearly 350 pieces of written EU Council document 13257/14; COM(2014)573: evidence. The Review attracted input from a broad Proposal for a Council Decision establishing the spectrum of experts and interested parties including position to be taken on behalf of the European parliamentary committees, Members of the European Union within the Committee on Government Parliament, the Devolved Administrations and Crown Procurement on the accession of Montenegro to Dependencies, business groups, think-tanks, academics, the Agreement on Government Procurement. The civil society groups and professional membership proposal was adopted by the Council of Ministers associations based both in the UK and beyond. The on 13 October. evidence we received in the fourth semester was again EU Council document 13281/14; COM(2014)574: of high quality and I would like to take this opportunity Proposal for a Council Decision establishing the to thank all those who contributed. position to be taken on behalf of the European As with previous semesters, the reports have undergone Union within the Committee on Government rigorous internal challenge to ensure they are balanced, Procurement on the accession of New Zealand to robust and evidence-based. Evidence submitted (subject the Agreement on Government Procurement. The to the provisions of the Data Protection Act) will be proposal was adopted by the Council of Ministers published alongside the reports on the gov.uk website on 13 October. to ensure transparency. The Government was supportive of all three proposals The fourth semester reports, along with reports through negotiations in Brussels. from all previous semesters, are available at: https:// The Cabinet Office has addressed the internal www.gov.uk/review-of-the-balance-of-competences. Copies procedural failings which led to these overrides to of the reports will be deposited in the Libraries of ensure that similar failures do not happen again. These both Houses and hard copies will be made available in include giving an official in the Cabinet Office Ministerial the Vote and Printed Papers Offices. team responsibility for managing EU scrutiny business This Statement included the following attachments: on which the Cabinet Office leads. A training workshop will also be held to ensure the scrutiny process is BOC Review: Subsidiarity and Proportionality (BOC Review - Subsidiarity and Proportionality.pdf) properly understood across all Cabinet Office policy units that deal with EU business and that the expectations BOC Review: Police and Criminal Justice (BOC Review - of Cabinet Office Ministers is also reinforced. Police and Criminal Justice.pdf) BOC Review: EU Enlargement (BOC Review - EU Enlargement.pdf) Former Members of the Armed Forces and BOC Review: Economic and Monetary Policy (BOC Review - the Criminal Justice System Economic and Monetary Policy.pdf) Statement BOC Review: Information Rights (BOC Review - Information Rights.pdf) The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord BOC Review: Education, Training and Youth (BOC Review - Faulks) (Con): My right honourable friend the Minister Education, Vocational Training and Youth.pdf) of State for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims BOC Review: Voting, Consular and Statistics (BOC Review - (Mike Penning) made the following Written Ministerial Voting, Consular and Statistics.pdf) Statement on 5 January 2015. WS 57 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 58

I am pleased to inform you that we have published a Scrutiny Team, to update him on the programme and report conducted on the Ministry’s behalf, “Former particularly on the recommendations that his team’s Members of the Armed Forces and the Criminal report made. I am grateful for the work of that team. Justice System”, on Sunday the 21 of December 2014, The House will recall that the Defence Reform Act alongside the government’s response and two supporting 2014 includes a statutory obligation to commission an analytical reports. Copies of each of these reports are independent report into the state of the Volunteer attached. Reserve force. The first review under the statutory This review was announced in Parliament in January arrangements is under way and will report next year. 2014. The aim of the review was to identify properly the reasons for ex-service personnel ending up in the justice system, to look at the support provided to them Haulage: Road Tank Vehicle Compliance and how that support could be improved. Statement I strongly agree with the report’s findings that we have an obligation to ensure those who serve in the armed forces are not disadvantaged because of their The Minister of State, Department for Transport service. While I am reassured by the findings of this (Baroness Kramer) (LD): My honourable friend the report that most ex-service personnel have successful Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport civilian lives and do not enter the criminal justice (Claire Perry) has made the following Ministerial system, my government’s response demonstrates that Statement. we will consider any recommendation that will improve Further to the Written Ministerial Statement given the lives of the small minority of ex-armed forces that by my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under- commit offences. Secretary of State for Transport (Robert Goodwill) on While we are still continuing to explore what more 24th October 2013, the Department for Transport has can be done to deliver the recommendations, I am continued to work with the Health and Safety Executive pleased to note there are a number of positive responses, (HSE), Department for Energy and Climate Change particularly in the areas of identification and tracking (DECC) and industry to resolve an issue around the of ex-armed forces offenders, data gathering and sharing. incorrect certification of fuel tankers manufactured in We were also able to highlight the benefits for ex-armed South Africa and certified as meeting international forces offenders of government programmes, such as standards by Bureau Veritas. Following a detailed Transforming Rehabilitation and Liaison and Diversion. investigation these tankers were found not to be in full As part of the response my Ministry has committed compliance with internationally agreed regulations (the to publish an update next year of progress against the European Agreement Concerning the International recommendations. Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road—“ADR”). I am grateful to Stephen Phillips MP QC and his Since the previous Statement, about 100 new team for conducting this review. I would also like to replacement tankers have been entering into service, give my thanks to Rory Stewart MP for the work he reducing the number that are not in full compliance to did establishing the review before handing over to around 130 tankers. During this time the Department Stephen. for Transport commissioned a £1.5 million research Copies of each of these reports will be available in programme to inform decisions about the future use the House libraries. of these vehicles. Based on the outcome of the research This Statement included the following attachments: published today on the Department’s website www.gov. Former Members of the Armed Forces and the CJS (Former uk/dft, the date by which those tankers built after the Members of the Armed Forces and the CJS-AReviewon middle of 2010 are to be withdrawn (about 70 tankers) Behalf of the SoS.pdf) will be extended subject to the outcome of further Cross Government Response to the Review (Publication of work to establish acceptance criteria that may allow the Review of Ex-armed Forces in the CJS - Cross Government an individual tanker to continue in use for up to Response.pdf) 12 years after entering into service. Those tankers still Rapid Evidence Assessment (The needs of ex-service in service that were built before the middle of 2010 are personnel in the CJS-arapidevidence assessment.pdf) to be withdrawn as originally planned a year ago. Analytical Summary (The needs of ex-service personnel in the CJS - analytical summary.pdf) Over the same period new tankers from the manufacturer have been certified as ADR compliant by a different tank inspection body for supply to the Future Reserves 2020 (External Scrutiny UK, starting in the next few months. In the meantime, Team Report) the Department has an ongoing dialogue with industry Statement over plans to resolve this issue using a process that maintains fuel supplies while upholding safety. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): My right Independent Library Report honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence Statement (Mr Michael Fallon) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. I have today placed in the Library of the House a Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con): My honourable friend copy of a letter that I have sent to Lt Gen (Retd) the Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy (Ed Brims, the Chair of the Future Reserves 2020 External Vaizey) made the following Statement on 18 December. WS 59 Written Statements[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Statements WS 60

Today I am publishing the Independent Library ceremonies, requesting that the Commission begins Report and depositing a copy in the House Library. work as soon as possible. The Government will start This has been undertaken by William Sieghart and I to work with the Commission in January to consider would like to state on record my particular thanks to the scope of such a review. him and his expert panel for their endeavour and This Statement included the following attachment: ambition to create a positive action plan for libraries. I Marriages by non-religious belief organisations (Marriages am also very grateful to everyone who has contributed by non-religious belief organisations (web).pdf) to this important work. We welcome the panel’s recommendations, which are being considered in detail. I am taking the immediate first step in partnership with local government to set Mental Health and Policing up the joint taskforce to advise on implementation of Statement the recommendations which will be chaired by Dr Paul Blantern, Chief Executive of Northamptonshire County Council. He will be supported by a range of experts The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department with an interest in libraries. This taskforce will report of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): My right honourable both to Ministers and the Local Government Association friend the Minister of State, Department of Health and the first meeting is due to take place in spring (Norman Lamb) has made the following Written Ministerial 2015. Statement. I whole-heartedly support the public library service On 18 December 2014 the Government published which has been making a vital contribution to the the report of the Government’s review of the operation knowledge, delight and quality of life of communities of sections 135 and 136 of the Mental Health Act in every part of England for more than 150 years. 1983. This has been an important piece of work, They are a cherished part of our cultural heritage, and conducted jointly by the Home Office and the Department a key player in our future. of Health. This Statement included the following attachment It is our overarching objective for all public services Independent Library Report (Independent Library Report to respond at the right time to the needs of people deposit - 18 December1.pdf) experiencing mental health crises. We also need to improve the outcomes for people experiencing mental health crises when they come in to contact with the Marriages: Non-religious Belief police. This review showed that there are areas where Organisations this is working well and areas where there is still room Statement for improvement. We have been fortunate that this review took place The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord alongside both the Home Affairs Select Committee’s Faulks) (Con): My right honourable friend the Minister inquiry into Policing and Mental Health and the Health of State for Justice and Civil Liberties (Simon Hughes) Select Committee’s report into child and adolescent made the following Written Ministerial Statement on mental health services. This work rightly highlighted 18 December 2014. the unacceptable state of affairs when a vulnerable I am today publishing the Government’s response child can be held in a police cell at the point of mental to the consultation on “Marriages by non-religious health crisis. Police stations must only be used in belief organisations” launched on 26 June 2014 and genuinely exceptional circumstances and never for a concluded on 18 September. Copies will be placed in child or young person aged under 18. We therefore the Libraries of both Houses. propose amending legislation to this effect subject to the next Parliament. The consultation sought views on whether the law should be changed to permit non-religious belief The review makes a number of other recommendations. organisations to solemnise marriages in England and It points out that making better use of alternative Wales. I am grateful to all who responded to the places of safety would be advantageous as we recognise consultation. that there is not one solution which is appropriate for all people at all times. There was a clear consensus that The government has considered the full range of a maximum period of detention under these sections responses and the range of issues associated with any is too long at 72 hours, and the review therefore options for change and which have implications for proposes reducing this to 24 hours, while still emphasising marriage solemnisation more broadly. It is the the need to complete assessments as soon as possible. Government’s view that the legal and technical requirements of marriage ceremonies and registration Although there is no space remaining in this Parliament in England and Wales need to be reviewed and potentially to make these changes, I believe there is a general reformed before or at the same time as making a consensus that these issues must be addressed. Therefore decision on whether to take forward the specific proposal I hope that in the next Parliament the momentum that to permit legally valid marriage ceremonies for those has been generated will be maintained. with non-religious beliefs. The following documents are attached, and copies It is important that we resolve these issues in as have been placed in the Library: timely a manner as possible. The Government will ask Review of the Operation of Sections 135 and 136 of the Law Commission if it will undertake a broader the Mental Health Act 1983: Review Report and independent review of the law concerning marriage Recommendations; WS 61 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 62

Review of the Operation of Sections 135 and 136 of The review has now concluded and has identified the Mental Health Act 1983: A Summary of the Evidence; ways in which the OPG can improve the protection it Review of the Operation of Sections 135 and 136 of affords those lacking capacity, and the service it provides the Mental Health Act 1983: A Literature Review; to those it is supporting and supervising. This includes a move to supervising according to deputy type. This the Centre for Mental Health’s report, Review of will enable staff to specialise in one of the deputy Sections 135 & 136 of the Mental Health Act: The types (lay, professional or local authority) and become views of professionals, service users and carers on the more familiar with the challenges faced by a particular codes of practice and legislation. vulnerable group. Concerns about the charges levied by professional Nuclear Deterrent Update deputies are also being addressed as a result of the Statement fundamental review. New measures which have been agreed with stakeholder groups include targeted assurance visits to professional deputies and their clients carried Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con): My right honourable out by a specialist OPG team and a requirement for friend the Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Michael deputies to submit annual plans and asset inventories, Fallon) has made the following Written Ministerial with work and cost estimates. Standards for professional Statement. deputies are also being developed. On 18 May 2011, the then Secretary of State for A key element in the new framework will be the use Defence, the right honourable Member for North Somerset of digital channels, which will allow more sophisticated (Dr Liam Fox) made an oral Statement to the House monitoring and make services easier to use for deputies. (Official Report, col. 351) announcing the approval of This will dovetail with the culture change at the OPG, the Initial Gate investment stage for the procurement which will put the people it serves at the heart of all it of the successor submarines to the VANGUARD class does. SSBNs. He also placed in the Library of the House a The proposed changes were included in a public report, “The United Kingdom’s Future Nuclear Deterrent: consultation, to which the government responded on The Submarine Initial Gate Parliamentary Report”. 21 August 2014, and in engagements with stakeholder This Government committed to publishing an annual groups which continue. report on the programme and I am today publishing I will place a copy of the review in the Libraries of the third report, “The United Kingdom’s Future Nuclear both Houses. Deterrent: 2014 Update to Parliament”. A copy has been placed in the Library of the House. This Statement included the following attachment: OPG Fundamental Review (OPG Fundamental Review of Supervision - Report to Parliament FINAL.pdf) Office of the Public Guardian: Review of Supervision Reformed AS and A-Level Content Statement Statement

The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Faulks) (Con): My right honourable friend the Minister Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): My honourable friend the of State for Justice and Civil Liberties (Simon Hughes) Minister of State for School Reform (Nick Gibb MP) made the following Written Ministerial Statement on made the following announcement today. 18 December 2014. The Government is reforming AS and A level My honourable friend and former Parliamentary qualifications to ensure they are academically rigorous Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Helen Grant) and provide students with the knowledge and announced in a debate on 30 October 2012 (Official understanding to prepare them for higher education, Report, col. 53WH) a fundamental review by the Public and employment. Guardian of how the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) supports him in the supervision of deputies The Government has already published subject content appointed by the Court of Protection. Deputies are for the first group of A levels to be reformed. Today I appointed where a person lacks the mental capacity to am publishing revised content for A levels in Ancient manage their own affairs and has not previously Languages, Modern Foreign Languages, Geography, nominated anyone to have lasting power of attorney. Mathematics, and Further Mathematics. The content Concerns had been raised by members about the for these A levels was recommended by the A level charges that professional deputies were making, and content advisory board (ALCAB), drawing on advice this element was incorporated into the fundamental from subject experts, universities and subject associations. review. By giving university academics a leading role, we The review aimed to make sure that there is a are making sure that these qualifications will provide responsive, robust and case-sensitive approach to the students with the skills and knowledge needed for supervision of deputies. The objective is that there progression to undergraduate study. I am grateful to should be effective and proportionate oversight and ALCAB for their expert advice, and I am accepting swift investigation of allegations of wrongdoing, to their recommendations. make sure that people who lack mental capacity are In ancient languages there is a clearer requirement properly protected and their needs are met. to study literary texts in the original language. WS 63 Written Statements[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Statements WS 64

In modern foreign languages the content has been The Government plans to use the UK share of the strengthened, with new requirements for students Fund for European Aid to the Most Deprived to to translate unseen material both into and out of provide additional support for school breakfast clubs the target language at both AS and A level. in England. Under the plans, which will be led by the In geography, content has been updated to reflect Department for Education, this money would be allocated the approaches to geography taken by universities to schools with particularly high rates of disadvantage, and geographical organisations, with a better as measured by free-school meal eligibility. balance between physical and human geography. We believe that breakfast clubs effectively target In mathematics, all the content is now prescribed in help to many of the most deprived children—providing detail. Students will be required to study both mechanics nutritious meals in some of the poorest areas, supporting and statistics. There is an increased emphasis on academic attainment, promoting healthy eating habits mathematical problem solving to ensure students at a young age and saving families money. This funding understand the underlying mathematical concepts. would be in addition to existing support provided by the government—we have already committed just over In further mathematics, the A level builds on the £1 million over two years to support an expansion of mathematics content with 50% of content prescribed. breakfast clubs in poor areas. AS level includes new minimum requirements for matrices and complex numbers, with 30% of content The UK’s allocation is worth ¤3.94 million (or prescribed. £3.1m) over seven years from 2014 to 2020, and can be used to deliver one or more of the following: food aid Copies of the content for reformed A levels are for the most deprived people; consumer goods for available. homeless people; consumer goods for children; and Alongside these announcements, Ofqual is today non-labour market social inclusion activities for the confirming its decisions on how these subjects should most deprived. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland be assessed, including the proportion of non-examination decided not to participate, due to the small sums assessment and the assessment objectives for each involved and the administrative effort required. The subject. allocation has been deducted from the UK’s structural These reformed A levels will be ready for first fund allocation (European Social Fund and European teaching in September 2016, apart from mathematics Regional Development Fund). and further mathematics for which first teaching is This use of the Fund for European Aid to the Most deferred until September 2017. This will give mathematics Deprived is subject to final agreement with the European students the best opportunity to benefit from the new Commission, and will be managed in accordance with qualifications at GCSE and A level. The decision is the fund’s stringent eligibility, accounting and evidence informed by advice from ALCAB and Ofqual’s Chief requirements. Regulator. A copy of the draft operational programme is The Department has also consulted upon the content attached to this Statement. for GCSEs in art and design, dance, music, computer Draft Operational Programme (Draft Programme_ science, physical education (PE), citizenship, cooking 2014UK05FMOP001_1_1_final.pdf) and nutrition, design and technology, and drama, and A levels in dance, music and physical education and Transforming Rehabilitation drama and theatre, and is currently consulting on Statement proposed content for GCSE and A level religious studies. For all these subjects we will publish content early next year. The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Faulks) (Con): My right honourable friend the Lord This Statement included the following attachment Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris attachments: Grayling) made the following Written Ministerial Subject content—ancient languages (GCE AS and A level subject content for ancient languages.docx) Statement on 18 December 2014. Subject content—modern foreign languages (GCE AS and A I am today signing contracts with the new owners level subject content for modern foreign languages.docx) of the 21 Community Rehabilitation Companies (CRCs). Subject content—further mathematics (GCE AS and A level This is another major step towards implementing the subject content for further mathematics.docx) government’s probation reforms. Subject content—mathematics (GCE AS and A level subject Despite almost £3 billion a year investment in prisons content for mathematics.docx) and just under £1 billion in delivering sentences in the Subject content—geography (GCE AS and A level subject community, overall reoffending rates have barely changed content for geography.docx) over the last decade. The very highest reoffending rates are among prisoners sentenced to custodial sentences of under 12 months. School Breakfast Clubs (European Aid) The current system is simply not addressing this problem Statement —many of these prolific offenders, with a host of complex problems, are released on to the streets with little or no support. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for For the first time in recent history, these reforms Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): My right honourable friend will mean that virtually every offender released from the Minister of State for Schools (David Laws MP) custody will receive statutory supervision and rehabilitation has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. in the community. The Offender Rehabilitation Act WS 65 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 66

2014 will extend this statutory supervision and the CRCs will be run with the involvement of a rehabilitation to all 45,000 of the most prolific group probation staff mutual. All new owners have included of offenders sentenced to less than 12 months in VCSE organisations in their proposed supply chains custody. and 75% of the 300 subcontractors named are VCSE We are also putting in place an unprecedented or mutual organisations. nationwide “through the prison gate” resettlement Our Transforming Rehabilitation reforms are part service to support offenders from custody into the of a programme across the whole justice system, making community. it ready to meet the challenges of the future. We are This is the most diverse market we have ever had for creating a justice system that produces more effective any competition in the Ministry of Justice. The contracts and more efficient services for all – reforming offenders, that I will be signing today demonstrate how we are delivering value for the taxpayer and protecting victims bringing together the best of the public, voluntary and and communities. private sectors with a wide range of skills and experience I have placed a copy of the final list of new owners to improve rehabilitation provision. in the House Library. In nearly all of the 21 areas, a mutual or voluntary, This Statement included the following attachment: community and social enterprise (VCSE) organisation New owners of Community Rehabilitation Companies (Table is involved at Tier 1 or as a strategic partner, and 6 of of New Owners of CRCs FINAL.pdf) WA 103 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 104

Appeals to the FtT SEND are against Local Authorities Written Answers rather than the individual school or educational establishment. Appeals can be made for a number of Tuesday 6 January 2015 reasons including, for example, where the Local Authority has refused to undertake an assessment of the child’s or young person’s needs or where a parent disagrees Abortion with the school named in the Education, Health and Question Social Care Plan provided by the Local Authority. The tribunal may, in this latter group of cases, require the Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool local authority to amend the name of the school or other institution to that preferred by the parent or To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to young person. That preferred school may be an academy. the answer by Earl Howe on 16 December (HL Deb, col 103), that “noble Lords around the House will Asked by Baroness King of Bow form their own conclusions on the information provided by the noble Lord, Lord Alton” concerning To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many the relative numbers of males and females and the complaints they have received regarding (1) the prevalence of gender selection abortions in China, admission decisions in relation to children with what conclusion they draw. [HL3840] Special Educational Needs (SEN), and (2) the teaching of children with SEN, by academy schools.[HL3775]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether there of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): As stated in my response have been any cases where an academy has refused to the noble Lord on 16 December (HL Deb, Col 103), to admit a Special Educational Needs pupil owing I shall undertake the commitment to contact the to budgetary constraints; and, if so, how many. Department for International Development. [HL3776]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools Academies: Special Educational Needs (Lord Nash) (Con): On behalf of the Secretary of Questions State, the Education Funding Agency (EFA) deals with academy special educational needs (SEN) admission Asked by Baroness King of Bow determination requests involving pupils in receipt of a statement of SEN or Education, Health and Care To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many plan. Between January 2013 and November 2014 the tribunal appeals there have been in relation to (1) EFA handled 56 admission determination requests. academy schools’ admission processes for Special Educational Needs (SEN), and (2) academy schools’ The EFA does not categorise complaints about the education of pupils with SEN; of these how many teaching of children with SEN by academy schools, or tribunal outcomes went against the academy; and, whether a request for an SEN admission determination in those instances, on how many occasions there was received because an academy refused to admit a child owing to budgetary constraints. were issues with compliance. [HL3772]

The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Accident and Emergency Departments Faulks) (Con): HM Courts & Tribunals Service, First-tier Tribunal Special Educational Needs and Disability Questions (FtT SEND) considers appeals from the parents of Asked by Baroness Manzoor children with special educational needs or from young people with special educational needs, against the To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many decisions of Local Authorities where the parent or the doctor and nursing vacancies there were in emergency young person cannot reach agreement with the Local medicine in 2012, 2013 and 2014. [HL3717] Authority about how those needs will be met. FtT SEND also considers parents’ or young persons’ claims To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many of disability discrimination in schools. The Ministry general practitioner and nursing vacancies there of Justice has recently published FtT SEND statistics were in general practice in 2012, 2013 and 2014. for the 2013-14 academic year and these can be found [HL3718] at: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/ uploads/attachment_data/file/385777/sen-tables- The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department 2014.xls. of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The information is not Although the tribunal deals with appeals against collected by the Department. The last annual National local authority placements it does not deal with appeals Health Service vacancy surveys in England were relating to the admission processes for children with undertaken by the Health and Social Care Information SEN in any schools nor does it deal with appeals Centre in 2010. These surveys were suspended in 2011 relating to the education within schools of children and then discontinued in 2013 following the publication with SEN. HMCTS is therefore unable to provide the of the Fundamental Review of Data Returns, which specific information that has been requested and has aimed to reduce the burden of the collection of data no role in compliance. from National Health Service organisations. WA 105 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 106

Aggregates The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) Questions (Con): The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills publish data on the aggregates industry, in their statistical bulletin ‘Monthly Statistics of Building Materials Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark and Components’. This does not include any measure of availability (such as stock levels), but does include sales of; sand for building; sand for concreting; gravel To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment for concreting, and other uses; sand and gravel for they have made of the availability of aggregates for coating; sand, gravel, and hoggin for fill; and marine the construction industry. [HL3711] dredged sand and gravel.

Sales of Sand and Gravel in Great Britain Great Britain Thousand Gravel for Sand & tonnes of which Sand for Sand for Concreting& other Gravel for Sand, Gravel& Marine- Building Concreting uses Coating Hoggin for Fill Sand & Gravel Dredged

Total 2013 Q4 1,227 4,510 4,115 .. .. 12,074 2,634 2014 Q1 1,420 4,450 4,463 400 1,741 12,475 2,447 2014 Q2 1,355 4,419 4,788 320 1,207 12,090 2,900 2014 Q3 (P) 1,674 5,277 5,122 699 1,116 13,889 3,489

P – provisional .. - not available Source: BIS

Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark market conditions the aggregates industry in Northern Ireland faces due to sharing a land boundary with To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action another EU Member State. they are taking to ensure that the United Kingdom aggregates industry can compete fairly against overseas suppliers. [HL3712] Aircraft Carriers Baroness Neville-Rolfe: Returning the UK to balanced Questions and sustainable growth is a key priority and Industrial Strategy is a key part of the plan. Improving the Asked by Lord Chidgey UK’s trade position is central to much of Industrial Strategy. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what evidence- The trade position in UK aggregates is positive. In based analysis they have conducted to establish the the most recent quarter (2014Q3), provisional figures vulnerability of the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft from the Department of Business, Innovation and carriers to modern submarine threats. [HL3747] Skills show that UK exports of aggregates outstripped To ask Her Majesty’s Government what evidence- exports by 5,958 thousand tonnes (6,904 thousand based analysis they have conducted to establish the tonnes of exports, compared to 946 thousand tonnes vulnerability of the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft of imports). carriers to modern anti-ship missile threats.[HL3748] The level of imports and exports in non-specialist aggregates to the UK is relatively low. For instance, over the same quarter (2014Q3), provisional figures for UK sales of sand for building and concreting The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry totalled 6,951 thousand tonnes, compared to UK imports of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): Comprehensive of 370 thousand tonnes of sand for construction and threat and survivability analysis was conducted by exports of 165 thousand tonnes. Defence Science and Technology Laboratories during the design phase of the Queen Elizabeth Class (QEC) The Aggregates Levy – an environmental tax levied aircraft carriers. The output of this analysis is periodically on commercially exploited aggregates – has been frozen reviewed and updated with input from Defence Intelligence for the last four years to support the construction Services and the Maritime Warfare Centre, and used industry. The tax is levied on imported aggregate, but to inform continued development of the operating not on that exported by UK producers, enabling them procedures and war-fighting doctrine for the QEC. to compete fairly with overseas suppliers. The Government remains committed to reinstating the Aggregate Levy I am withholding further details of this analysis Credit Scheme in Northern Ireland following a positive and its conclusions as disclosure would, or would be decision by the European Commission earlier this likely to, prejudice the capability, effectiveness or security year. The credit scheme helped mitigate the different of the Armed Forces. WA 107 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 108

Alcoholic Drinks Ambulance Services: City of Westminster Questions Question Asked by Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe Asked by Lord Hoyle To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to they have made of the decision of five states in the the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 5 December United States to ban the sale of Palcahol. [HL3819] (HL3203), why the percentage of ambulances arriving within the target response time of the London Ambulance Service in the City of Westminster is The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home below 70 per cent. [HL3817] Office (Lord Bates) (Con): The Government is aware of powdered alcohol from media reports and the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department banning of the product in five states of the United of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): We understand that States of America. The Government is not aware of London Ambulance Service NHS Trust is facing the powdered alcohol being marketed or made available same challenges in responding to calls within the City to buy in England and Wales. of Westminster that it is facing across the capital. This Asked by Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe year the service has been experiencing a significant increase in demand whilst at the same time having to To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions contend with a high level of frontline staff vacancies. they have had with partners in the Responsibility To enable it to manage the increasing pressure on Deal about the import, production and sale in the the service, the Trust has launched a major national United Kingdom of Palcahol and its European and international recruitment campaign to ensure it equivalents; and what were the outcomes of such fills the vacancies that it is currently carrying. discussions. [HL3820] Anguilla The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Questions of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Department has not discussed the import, production and sale in the United Asked by Lord Jones of Cheltenham Kingdom of Palcahol and its European equivalents with partners in the Responsibility Deal. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have plans to provide assistance to Anguilla to Asked by Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe improve air access in order to enhance its ability to develop the local economy through tourism. To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they [HL3619] will report the results of the Chief Medical Officer’s review of the unit measuring system for alcoholic drinks. [HL3821] Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): We are working with the Government of Anguilla to identify what UK funded technical assistance can best help to boost its economic development, including improvements in Earl Howe: The review is currently underway and access to Anguilla. The British Government is committed we expect to be able to consult on any new guidelines to supporting the economic sustainability and by summer 2015. development of the Overseas Territories. Asked by Lord Jones of Cheltenham Alcoholic Drinks: Taxation To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the scale of corruption in Anguilla; Question and what measures they intend to take to counter Asked by Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe it. [HL3620]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how HM Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The British Government Revenue and Customs classify powdered alcohol has responsibility for the overall good governance of for tax purposes. [HL3843] all the Overseas Territories (OTs) and believes that that the same basic standards of good governance should apply in the OTs as in the UK. It is important The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord that public concerns about corruption are addressed. Deighton) (Con): HMRC classifies powdered alcohol Operational responsibility for investigating allegations as being liable to excise duty, chargeable at the equivalent of corruption lies with the Royal Anguillan Police rate to spirits drinks. Force, which reports directly to the Governor. The This reflects a ruling by the European Commission Home Office is currently working with the Government in 2005 which concluded that there are no grounds for of Anguilla to extend the UN Convention against exempting alcohol powder products from excise duty Transnational Organised Crime to Anguilla. Combating under Article 27 of Directive 92/83/EEC’ (the ‘alcohol bribery, money laundering and corruption of public structures directive’). officials is a key component. WA 109 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 110

Asked by Lord Jones of Cheltenham Asked by Baroness Manzoor To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assistance To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they they have given to Anguilla in each of the last five have considered excluding newly launched antibiotics years for which figures are available. [HL3621] or soon-to-be launched antibiotics from the payment- by-results tariff. [HL3763] Lord Wallace of Saltaire: In the last five years, the Government has provided specific financial assistance Earl Howe: All known new drugs, which include to Anguilla in the following areas: new antibiotics, coming onto the United Kingdom 2014/15 (to date)—£65,000 from delegated and Jubilee market are considered as part of the process for funding (funds administered by the Governor’s office, determining whether they can be added to the list of to support local projects, technical exchanges and high cost drugs that are reimbursed outside of national secondments). £114,000 for police training and equipment; prices. This process takes a forward look for drugs 2013/14—£3m grant provided for capital development likely to come onto the market when the National projects, including the renovation of local primary Tariff comes into effect, to ensure that the high cost schools, a new fire station, road improvements and the list remains clinically relevant. purchase of new police vehicles. £100,000 from delegated We are commissioning an external review of the and Jubilee funding; pathways for the development, assessment, and adoption 2012/13—£120,000 for the establishment of a of innovative medicines and medical technology. This vocational training centre at the Anguilla Community review will consider how to speed up access for National College, £300,000 for a prison expansion project and Health Service patients to cost-effective new diagnostics, £35,000 for support on public expenditure management. medicines and devices. 2011/12—£129,000 to assist the Government of Asked by Baroness Manzoor Anguilla to identify expenditure savings in the civil service and the health sector and to develop and To ask Her Majesty’s Government what alternative implement tax reforms. £60,000 from delegated funding; pricing and reimbursement arrangements they are and considering for newly launched or soon-to-be launched 2010/11—£55,000 for a review of Anguilla’s public antibiotics in advance of the independent antimicrobial financial management. £25,000 from delegated funding. resistance review. [HL3764] In addition, Anguilla benefits from ongoing UK technical support and assistance across the full range Earl Howe: The Department is in the process of of policy areas, including regular Royal Navy deployments convening a group involving industry to explore how to the region, eligibility for Chevening scholarships, to address interim issues pending the conclusion of investment in capacity building for the police, prison the review on antimicrobial resistance. Among these and probation services and disaster management will be the pricing and reimbursement of new (approximately £98,000 over the last five years), antimicrobial products. environmental management support (including a share Asked by Baroness Manzoor of the £713,690 Darwin Plus environmental management programme) and ad hoc support on financial To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, as management, renewable energy, education, early childhood part of the triennial review into the National Institute development, health and domestic violence. Anguilla for Health and Care Excellence and ongoing also receives development assistance from the EU and discussions relating to the institute’s appraisal methods, the Caribbean Development Bank, to which the UK is they will consider creating modifiers or a special a major contributor. priority designation for qualified antibiotics. [HL3765]

Antibiotics Earl Howe: The National Institute for Health and Questions Care Excellence (NICE) Triennial Review was announced on 30 October 2014 to review the form and functions Asked by Baroness Manzoor of NICE. NICE’s methods for the development of its To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light technology appraisal guidance are outside the scope of the annual progress report on the United Kingdom of the review. 5 Year Antimicrobial Resistance Strategy, how they As an independent body, NICE is responsible for plan to handle newly launched or soon-to-be launched the methods it uses to develop its technology appraisal antibiotics in a way that is compatible with the guidance and we have no plans at present to ask NICE broad goals of the strategy. [HL3762] to create modifiers or a special priority designation for qualified antibiotics. We continue to keep NICE’s The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department work programme under review. of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Department is in the We are commissioning an external review of the process of convening a group involving industry to pathways for the development, assessment, and adoption explore how to address interim issues pending the of innovative medicines and medical technology. This conclusion of the review on antimicrobial resistance. review will consider how to speed up access for National Among these will be how to treat new antimicrobial Health Service patients to cost-effective new diagnostics, products which are close to launch. medicines and devices. WA 111 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 112

The development of new antimicrobial drugs is Asylum also the subject of the review on antimicrobial resistance announced on 2 July by the Prime Minister. The Question review will explore what actions may be taken by Asked by Lord Hylton governments around the world to stimulate investment in new antimicrobial drugs. The review will present its To ask Her Majesty’s Government what initial findings during 2015 with a final report and improvements to the procedures of the Detained recommendations to follow during 2016. Fast Track for the better protection of applicants they have introduced since the decision of the High Court on 9 July 2014. [HL3483]

Antisubmarine Warfare The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con): In July 2014 the High Question Court upheld the principle of a Detained Fast Track (DFT) process as lawful. However, the Court found Asked by Lord Empey that the DFT process as operated carried an “unacceptable risk of unfairness” with regard to vulnerable applicants To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they within the system. This was primarily because they consider that the United Kingdom’s anti-submarine were not guaranteed access to lawyers sufficiently detection capability is adequate to meet current soon after induction to enable instructions to be taken threat levels. [HL3670] and advice to be given before the substantive interview. The Home Office took immediate steps to address this and other criticisms of the process. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry Screening: of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): We have The judgment observed that the current asylum acknowledged that we have a maritime surveillance screening process did not do enough to identify and capability gap following the decision not to bring the exclude from DFT vulnerable people or those with Nimrod MRA4 into service. However we have also particularly complex claims. We have since changed made it clear that it is one that we have chosen to the questions asked in the screening interview to help accept and to mitigate through employment of other address this issue and there is an ongoing review of the assets, as well as through co-operation with allies, who screening process that incorporates discussions and have deployed Maritime Patrol Aircraft on several input from external stakeholders. occasions. Detention Centre Rule 35: A decision on whether to take further steps to Detention Centre Rule 35 requires doctors in mitigate the gap is planned as part of the next Strategic immigration removal centres to issue reports to Home Defence and Security Review. Office officials with responsibility for authorising, maintaining and reviewing detention, if they have concerns about issues of particular vulnerability. Those issues include particular ill-health, suicide risk and Armed Forces: Lagos concerns that the detainee may have been a victim of torture. Whilst acknowledging that a Rule 35 report Question issued by a medical practitioner relating to possible torture concerns may sometimes reflect only the detainee’s Asked by Lord Clark of Windermere own claim and so not require automatic release, the judgment nonetheless concluded that the evidence did To ask Her Majesty’s Government what guidance not show the process to operate as well as it should. they provide to Members of Parliament regarding Releases can and do result from Rule 35 reports the use of the United Kingdom Armed Forces and a recent sampling exercise has reconfirmed this logos in political literature. [HL3810] position and identified some other issues for improvement. We have already taken steps to improve awareness of existing process requirements. We have consulted external The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry partners on improvements to the operation of Rule 35 of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): The Ministry and further measures will introduced in the coming of Defence (MOD) does not permit the use of United months to ensure that the process operates as effectively Kingdom Armed Forces logos in political literature. as possible. Information on MOD copyright licensing is attached Access to legal representation: and is available on the Department’s website at the The judgment stated that in some cases, legal following link: representatives were allocated to asylum applicants https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/ too late in the DFT process, which was considered uploads/attachment_data/file/311992/ significant enough to carry a high risk of unfairness 20140515_MOD_Copyright_Licensing_Information.pdf for those who may be vulnerable. On the 14th and 15th This Answer included the following attachment of July the Home Office implemented new arrangements, MOD Copyright Licensing Information that ensured that legal representatives were are allocated (20140515_MOD_Copyright_Licensing_Information.pdf) to asylum claimants that require them (around 50% of WA 113 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 114 asylum claimants arrive with a lawyer already) on the the UK has been at the forefront of the international day of induction to DFT or, where that is not possible, response to the humanitarian crisis in Syria, having no later than 2 working days after induction. In addition pledged £700m, making us the second largest bilateral we are now ensuring that there are 4 clear working donor. days between the allocation of a lawyer and the asylum We strongly believe that we should continue to interview except where the asylum claimant and lawyer focus on aid rather than resettlement as the best way advise that they want an earlier interview. for the UK to maximise our impact, and we therefore have no current plans to expand the VPR scheme. Asylum: Homosexuality Question Asked by Lord Scriven Autism Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the report in The Guardian on 8 February, what Asked by Lord Touhig steps they are taking to ensure that homosexual asylum seekers are not asked “degrading” questions To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions have been held with NHS England about the related to their sexuality. [HL3860] formulation of the draft statutory guidance implementing the adult autism strategy in the light The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home of the current consultation. [HL3795] Office (Lord Bates) (Con): It has never been the policy of the Government to allow its asylum case owners to To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps ask “degrading” questions. As was indicated to the they are taking to encourage health and wellbeing Noble Lord in the Government’s response to his previous boards to follow the current statutory guidance question on this issue (15 December 2014: WA2), implementing the adult autism strategy; and what existing guidance, which was drawn up in consultation plans there are to encourage them to do so when with Stonewall, the UK Lesbian and Gay Immigration new statutory guidance is published. [HL3796] Group and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, is clear that questions of a sexually explicit nature should not usually be asked. The Government is currently The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, revising its guidance further and will be making it Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Department clear that there are no circumstances in which such and NHS England have discussed the draft statutory questions should be asked. guidance implementing the adult autism strategy. NHS Since February 2014, all interviews and decisions in England is a partner in the Autism Strategy and a sexuality-based claims have been subject to a ’second member of the Autism Programme Board and has pair of eyes’ check by a senior caseworker who provides been involved in producing the guidance. constructive feedback to the decision maker. Senior Information about the requirements of the strategy caseworkers also provide ad hoc support and guidance has been disseminated through National Health Service to decision makers during the course of the asylum bulletins to clinical commissioning groups and area process. teams to support Health and Wellbeing Boards to follow guidance. The Autism Self-Assessment Framework enables Health and Wellbeing Boards to benchmark Asylum: Syria their services against other areas. Question Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Azerbaijan Syrian refugees are expected to resettle in the United Question Kingdom via the Syrian Vulnerable Persons Relocation Scheme in the next three months, the next six months Asked by Baroness Cox and the next 12 months. [HL3833] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have made representations to the Government of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Azerbaijan with regard to the alleged forcible closure Office (Lord Bates) (Con): The Syrian Vulnerable Persons of mosques there, including the Fatima Zahra mosque Relocation (VPR) scheme is designed to complement in Baku, and mosques in the Nakhchivan Autonomous our humanitarian aid efforts and is based on need Republic. [HL3638] rather than fulfilling a quota; however, we have said we expect the scheme to help several hundred people over three years, and we remain on track to deliver Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The UK is aware of that commitment. concerns about mosque closures in Azerbaijan. We This is in addition to our consideration of asylum have not made representations on these specific cases. claims lodged in the UK under our normal rules. Since However, we continue to monitor the situation, and the crisis began, we have given sanctuary to more than we raise human rights concerns with the Government 3,400 Syrian nationals and their dependants. In addition, of Azerbaijan at every appropriate opportunity. WA 115 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 116

Bahrain BBC World Service: North Korea Question Question Asked by The Marquess of Lothian Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions the total cost of establishing a new naval base in they have had with the Chairman of the BBC and Bahrain. [HL3631] the Director General of BBC World Service about investigating ways in which BBC World Service radio transmissions might be commenced on the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry Korean Peninsula; and what assessment they have of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): Negotiations made of what the United Nations Commission of to further enhance and improve the existing facilities Inquiry into human rights violations in North Korea with the Government of Bahrain are ongoing. has described as the importance of breaking the information blockade which surrounds North Korea. [HL3829] Bank Cards Question The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): The World Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark Service is editorially, managerially and operationally To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their independent of government, which means that the assessment of retailers who are seeking to pass on Foreign and Commonwealth Office does not seek to the merchant charges to their customers when they steer operational decisions. I am aware, though, that pay for goods or services using debit or credit the World Service have examined the case for a Korean cards. [HL3470] language service in detail. They have concluded that it is not currently possible to provide a meaningful, impactful and cost-effective service. The BBC Trust The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord has responsibility for setting the World Service’s budget. Deighton) (Con): The Government is clear that merchants The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth should not pass on a charge to a customer that is Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede higher than the cost that merchants themselves incur and Weybridge (Mr Philip Hammond), must, however, for processing that payment. agree the objectives, priorities and targets for the This is why the Government brought in the Consumer World Service, as well as the languages in which the Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012 in April World Service is provided, on the basis of proposals 2013, which state that if a business wishes to charge a made by the BBC. customer for using their credit or debit card, then that The UK does not disagree with the interpretation surcharge must not be higher than the cost the business of the UN Commission of Inquiry, paragraph 1224, has to pay for processing that method of payment. which suggests more support for the work of civil society organisations to improve the human rights situation, document violations and broadcast accessible Banks: Pay information. However, it is clear that different parties will take different roles on individual recommendations. Question The UK has previously funded projects related to Asked by Baroness Williams of Crosby the documentation of violations. These projects have been implemented by civil society organisations based To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps in South Korea. We remain open to funding similar they plan to take to strip traders who disregard projects in the future. We have also worked with banking standards, such as by engaging in insider international non-governmental organisations, as well trading, of any bonuses they may have received. as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea’s (DPRK) [HL3565] Korean Federation for the Protection of the Disabled (KFPD), to improve the treatment of disabled people in the DPRK. This complements wider international The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord efforts, like those of the US, which does support Deighton) (Con): Senior and highly paid bank employees broadcasts into the DPRK. in the UK are subject to the Remuneration Code, which has been strengthened under this Government. The Code requires that at least 40% of any bonuses they receive must be deferred over at least three years, Blue Badge Scheme and can be reduced or cancelled if poor performance Question or conduct issues subsequently come to light. Asked by Lord Touhig Furthermore, from 2015 the Prudential Regulation Authority is requiring that all variable pay for senior To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they bankers can be clawed back for seven years following are aware of concerns regarding the recently published award by employers where there is evidence of employee guidance for local authorities in England on the misbehaviour or a material failure of risk management. Blue Badge Scheme. [HL3797] WA 117 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 118

The Minister of State, Department for Transport British Nationality: Assessments (Baroness Kramer) (LD): We recently revised the guidance to local authorities in England making it clear that Questions any permanent and substantial disability which causes Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno inability to walk or very considerable difficulty in walking may qualify for a badge regardless of the To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many particular condition, and that each application should people took the Life in the United Kingdom citizenship be considered against this criterion. We have not been test in each month from January 2013 until November made aware of any concerns with the new guidance. 2014 inclusive. [HL3759]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Boko Haram Office (Lord Bates) (Con): Information is not published Question in this format. However, statistics relating to the number of Life in the UK tests taken are already published Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead quarterly on the following link: To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ assessment of the main source of Boko Haram’s temporary-and-permanent-migration-data- weapons; and what is their assessment of the strategy november-2014 adopted by the government of Nigeria in respect of Table LUK1 refers, which provides data up to and that organisation. [HL3726] including September 2014. Data relating to October and November 2014 will be published in due course. Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): Reliable To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many assessments of the source of Boko Haram’s weapons people have taken the Life in the United Kingdom are not available. However, reports indicate that Boko citizenship test for a second time after passing the Haram obtain weapons from a variety of sources, test previously because they lost the certificate including illegal arms smuggling and theft from the confirming they had passed. [HL3761] Nigerian military. On the military side, the Government of Nigeria has increased the number of forces in the North East. Lord Bates: No statistical information is available However, tackling the threat of Boko Haram requires showing how many people have re-taken the test for a comprehensive response, including economic this purpose. It would not be necessary to re-take the development, led by the Nigerian government, with test in these circumstances as each test result is transferred the support of its neighbours and other international to Home Office systems for reference purposes and partners. would therefore be available to the caseworker considering The UK’s package of support includes training and any subsequent application for settlement or citizenship. advice to Nigerian military units, deployed against Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno Boko Haram; support to the Nigerian government in bringing increased development and prosperity to the To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many North East; and a commitment to draw one million Life in the United Kingdom citizenship tests were more children into education in Northern Nigeria by taken and were passed in Welsh and in Scots Gaelic 2020. in each year since 2005. [HL3824]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home British Council Office (Lord Bates) (Con): No Life in the UK tests Question have been taken in Welsh since 2005. One test was taken in Scots Gaelic in 2010. Asked by Lord Storey Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have plans to raise awareness of the work of the To ask Her Majesty’s Government why in England British Council, and the Erasmus+ scheme. [HL3769] applicants have been unable to sit the Life in the United Kingdom citizenship test in Welsh or Scots Gaelic since 2013. [HL3825] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con): The National Agency (a consortium of the Lord Bates: We introduced a new version of the British Council and Ecorys UK) deliver the Erasmus+ Life in the UK test in 2013, but there was no change to programme in the UK. The National Agency has a our policy on offering the test in Welsh or Scottish communications team that is dedicated to raising Gaelic. Demand for tests in these languages is very awareness of the Erasmus+ programme. The UK low and we have no record of any requests outside Government does not duplicate this work. Wales or Scotland. WA 119 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 120

British Overseas Territories The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): Burma Questions remains the main source of drugs in the region and is Asked by Lord Jones of Cheltenham the world’s second largest producer of opium poppy, which along with illicit trade of jade, provides significant To ask Her Majesty’s Government what rules sources of income that have helped fuel Burma’s internal govern the ability of the United Kingdom Overseas conflicts. The production of methamphetamine is also Territories to raise finance from the private sector a growing concern, with the majority of the production and from international governments and organisations in Burma exported to neighbouring countries. to fund infrastructure improvements. [HL3622] We are aware of plans for improved cooperation between the nations of the Mekong region, including Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): Overseas territory Burma, to tackle the illicit drugs trade. This includes constitutions and laws set clear responsibilities for the recent establishment of a regional centre in Chiang public financial matters in each territory. Rules on Mai, Thailand, staffed by drugs enforcement officers public procurement in the Overseas Territories (OTs) from Burma, Thailand, China and Laos. The UK are also set out in local legislation. In addition, the welcomes these efforts and encourages coordination British Government and a number of OTs have agreed with the UN Office of Drugs and Crime. Fiscal Frameworks that establish prudent limits and robust definitions of public debt. They also establish key principles and procedures for public procurement. Cannabis Fiscal Frameworks are in place with Anguilla, the Question Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, the Falkland Islands and the Turks and Caicos Islands. Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Asked by Lord Jones of Cheltenham To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their policy in regard to the use of cannabis for medical To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment purposes. [HL3518] they have made of unemployment and poverty levels in the Overseas Territories. [HL3655] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): Overseas Territory of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): No assessment has been governments have devolved powers for self government made by the Government of the potential medicinal and are responsible for economic policy. However, the benefits of cannabis. Cannabis in its raw form is not UK works to support them in partnership in line with authorised as a medicinal product in the United Kingdom. the 2012 Government White Paper. Sativex Oromucosal Spray, which contains extracts Most of the UK Overseas Territories are defined by of cannabis (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and as the major active components), is the only medicine Development (OECD) as High Income Territories. produced from the cannabis plant that is approved as But the Gross National Income (GNI) per capita a medicinal product in the UK. Sativex is licensed for levels in St Helena (including Tristan da Cunha) and use in treating spasticity in multiple sclerosis and was Montserrat mean they are defined as Upper Middle approved on 16 June 2010. Income Territories, and therefore eligible for Official Sativex is being investigated in a small number of Development Assistance under OECD rules. St Helena clinical trials in the UK for the treatment of a range of (including Tristan da Cunha) with a population of conditions including cancer related pain, spasticity around 4261, Montserrat with a population of around due to multiple sclerosis and cerebral palsy, ulcerative 4922, plus Pitcairn (whose population of around 50 means colitis and impacted tooth extraction. Other clinical it is too small to feature in the OECD rankings) are in trials – using different compounds (cannabinoids) are receipt of assistance from the Department for also ongoing for different conditions. International Development. The Government has not turned down any application Data on unemployment and per capita Gross Domestic for cannabis to be used as a medicine in the UK, but Product (GDP), for the inhabited UK Overseas Territories no application to obtain a licence for cannabis or a are in the attached table. This information comes from related product other than Sativex has been made to a variety of public sources. the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory This Answer included the following attachment: Agency (MHRA). Overseas Territories GDP per capita (3655 table.docx) Care Homes: Fees and Charges Burma Question Question Asked by Lord Lipsey Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead To ask Her Majesty’s Government what adjustment To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they intend to make to the £23,250 non-housing they have made of illicit jade and drug trading in capital asset limit for the deferred payment scheme Burma and the actions of the government of that when the capital limit for means-tested care benefits country in respect of tackling the trade of such rises from £23,250 to £118,000 in April 2016. goods into China. [HL3725] [HL3695] WA 121 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 122

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of specialised treatments and the impact on people of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): We intend to raise the who cannot currently access treatments recommended capital-related eligibility criterion, which currently requires by their clinician. [HL3849] a person to have less than £23,250 in non-housing assets, to £27,000 from April 2016. This mirrors the increased upper capital limit which will apply when a The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department person’s property is disregarded from April 2016. of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England has advised Local authorities will retain discretionary powers that a meeting of its Clinical Priorities Advisory Group to offer deferred payments to people who do not meet has been delayed whilst further work is undertaken to the eligibility criteria but might otherwise benefit. refine the overall decision making process. NHS England remains committed however, to ensuring that a timely Central African Republic decision is made about a range of investment proposals that have been put forward for the 2015-16 financial Question year. Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead At the November public meeting of the NHS England Board it was agreed to create a new Specialised Services To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress Committee of the Board, and as a consequence to has been made by the new International Criminal review the current governance arrangements covering Court investigation into the situation in the Central this aspect of NHS England’s work. African Republic. [HL3728] It was decided to undertake a public consultation on the future approach to prioritising new treatments Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The UK notes the and interventions within specialised commissioning. International Criminal Court Prosecutor’s decision to This was considered at the December NHS England open a second investigation into the situation in the Board meeting and it was agreed that a 90 day consultation Central African Republic with respect to alleged crimes will be carried out in early 2015. committed since 2012. Her Office’s investigation is NHS England has advised that the short postponement ongoing and the Prosecutor will decide whether to of the Clinical Priorities Advisory Group meeting will bring any charges based on its findings. The Prosecutor have no impact on the decision making timetable for released a statement on 24 September which sets out commissioning NHS services from April 2015 onwards. the Prosecutor’s belief that there is a reasonable basis to believe that both the Séléka and the anti-balaka Existing treatments will continue to be commissioned groups have committed crimes against humanity and in the meantime, ensuring that support for patients is war crimes. maintained. Asked by Baroness Howells of St Davids China To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps Question they are taking to ensure that the Clinical Priorities Advisory Group operates in a transparent manner. Asked by Lord Moonie [HL3853] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what help To ask Her Majesty’s Government how the work they are providing to Uighur refugees. [HL3600] of the Clinical Priorities Advisory Group is communicated to the public. [HL3854] The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): We remain concerned by all restrictions placed on ethnic minority The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department rights in China, including in the Xinjiang Uyghur of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England has advised Autonomous Region. We are also troubled by reports that discussion at executive level has taken place. A which suggest that large numbers of Chinese Uyghurs consultation will be launched early in the new year on are arriving in neighbouring South East Asian countries how NHS England carries out its considerations on and claiming asylum. We regularly raise our concerns the commissioning of new treatments and interventions with Chinese officials, such as during the UK-China as part of a prioritisation process. Once the proposals Human Rights Dialogue in May 2014, and with officials have been consulted on and a final decision has been from neighbouring countries. We highlight our broader published regarding the NHS England operations and concerns in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s decision making process to be used, the Clinical Priorities Annual Report on Human Rights and Democracy. Advisory Group (CPAG) will operate under these terms. Clinical Priorities Advisory Group NHS England has advised that the work of CPAG has been communicated through various public meetings Questions and presentations. Current terms of reference are on Asked by Baroness Gale the NHS England website. Any CPAG recommendations which are approved by the Specialised Commissioning To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions Oversight Group are published on the NHS England they have had with NHS England regarding delays in website. A newsletter is also circulated to patient groups the Clinical Priorities Advisory Group’s consideration and relevant networks. WA 123 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 124

Coastal Areas: Access From 2008-2012 Question Number of cases Fetal Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark Deaths/ Still Births To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress from is being made on creating the coastal path in Live Fetal 2 England. [HL3716] Registries Anomaly Year Births Anomaly Total 2008 47 4 51 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department 2009 47 9 56 for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord De 2010 52 8 60 Mauley) (Con): We are making good progress with 2011 40 11 51 coastal access. It has been implemented on four stretches 2012 46 14 60 of the coast in Cumbria, Dorset and Norfolk, and in Total1 Neural 2008 - 232 46 278 Durham, Hartlepool and Sunderland. We have also Tube 2012 announced that additional funding will be made available Defects to complete the coastal path around England by 2020. Notes: 1Data is not available for the following years/registries: UK Merseyside and Cheshire (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) Congenital Abnormalities North West Thames (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) Questions The years data is available for each registry and can be found here: Asked by Lord Rooker http://www.eurocat-network.eu/content/EUROCAT-Population- Table-I.pdf To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many 2The number of cases in each congenital anomaly subgroup is births have been affected by neural tube defects in not the number of isolated cases. In particular the outcome, such the past five years. [HL3793] as fetal deaths for seemingly less severe anomalies, may have To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many occurred as the case had other more severe major anomalies. pregnancies have been terminated in the past five Source: years because of neural tube defects. [HL3794] EUROCAT Website Database: http://www.eurocat-network.eu/ACCESSPREVALENCE DATA/PrevalenceTables The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department (data uploaded 24 November 2014) of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Based on HSA4 notifications to the Chief Medical Officer, the numbers of abortions for neural tube defect reported as the primary medical Construction: Recruitment condition of the fetus, residents of England and Wales, 2009 to 2013 are: Question Asked by Lord Storey 2013 420 2012 390 to ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of 2011 364 the levels of employment in the construction industry, 2010 338 what plans they have to enhance opportunities for 2009 299 school leavers intending to enter the construction industry. [HL3603] ICD_10 Codes included are: Q00 Anencephaly, Q01 Encephalocele and Q05 Spina Bifida. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department The data below has been captured from EUROCAT, for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) a European network of population-based registries (Con): The Government is committed to driving up for the epidemiologic surveillance of congenital anomalies. apprenticeship opportunities for young people in The data covers approximately 30% of the population. the construction sector. New industry designed The table below represents data from seven registries apprenticeships and employer led training will give that are based in England. construction firms, both large and small, the power to develop the workforce they need. Significant funding Number of cases of neural tube defects, for the and support is available to employers through the following registries: Apprenticeship Grant for Employers (AGE), through East Midlands and South Yorkshire (UK), support from the Construction Industry Training Board, Merseyside and Cheshire (UK), and from April 2016 employers will no longer be North West Thames (UK), required to pay employer National Insurance contributions for apprentices under the age of 25 on earnings up to Northern England (UK), the upper earnings limit. South West England (UK), On 10 December the Government announced the Thames Valley (UK), creation of a new careers and enterprise company for Wessex (UK), schools to transform the provision of careers education WA 125 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 126 and advice for young people and inspire them about The Government is content that the legislative the opportunities offered by the world of work. Separately, framework in place supports innovation in co-operative the Construction Leadership Council is examining the capital. The government has implemented a package image of the sector and looking at the barriers to of measures this year to strengthen the co-operative providing young people with work experience and sector. This includes increasing the amount of developing an understanding of the opportunities in withdrawable share capital an individual can invest in the construction industry. a society from £20,000 to £100,000, making it easier and cheaper for co-operative societies to raise capital. Convention on the Control and Marking of Articles of Precious Metals Question Corporation Tax: Northern Ireland Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Asked by Lord Christopher they have made of the effectiveness of the Hallmarking Convention in protecting the British precious metals To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to publish impact and risk assessments on industry. [HL3714] the devolution of corporation tax to Northern The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Ireland. [HL3592] for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con): The International Hallmarking Convention provides the opportunity for the British precious metals The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord industry to have precious metal articles hallmarked Deighton) (Con): At Autumn Statement, the Government with the Convention hallmarks by the UK Assay set out that it recognises the strongly held arguments Offices. This allows British business direct access to all for devolving corporation tax rate-setting powers to other Convention country markets. No formal assessment Northern Ireland, including its land border with the has been made of the effectiveness of the Convention very low corporation tax environment in the Republic in protecting British industry. However, 37% of all of Ireland, and the shared goal of the UK Government UK hallmarked articles in 2013 were Convention marked and the Northern Ireland Executive of rebalancing and these represent 60% of the total of all Convention the Northern Ireland economy and securing the peaceful hallmarked articles. economic progress made since the Good Friday Agreement. Work by HMRC and HM Treasury has concluded that this proposal could be implemented Co-operatives provided that the Northern Ireland Executive is able Questions to manage the financial implications. If this legislation Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark is introduced, a Tax Information and Impact Note will be published alongside the Bill as part of the usual To ask Her Majesty’s Government what legislative process. consideration have they given to moving the legislative function for co-operative and community benefit societies from HM Treasury to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. [HL3635] Counterfeit Manufacturing To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the quality of and ease of access Question to official data on co-operatives. [HL3636] Asked by Lord Mendelsohn To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effectiveness of the legal and To ask Her Majesty’s Government what has regulatory frameworks in supporting innovation in been the performance of Trading Standards in the co-operative capital. [HL3637] United Kingdom in securing convictions for (1) the production, (2) the sale, (3) the distribution, and (4) The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord the importation of counterfeit goods. [HL3556] Deighton) (Con): The Government does not hold official statistics on co-operatives. Relevant data is held by the Financial Conduct Authority, some of which they The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department publish online. for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) The legislative function for co-operative and community (Con): Trading Standards services, including tackling benefit societies resides with HM Treasury; there are counterfeit goods, are provided by local authorities. currently no plans to change this. Local authorities operate independently from central The Financial Conduct Authority is the registrar government and are accountable to their own electorate, for co-operatives and community benefit societies. It allocating resources according to local priorities. has no regulatory functions over societies which are Local authorities do not report regulatory outputs not also authorised to carry out financial services to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. activities. Therefore, the Department does not hold this information. WA 127 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 128

Credit Rating Cycling England Question Question Asked by Lord Myners Asked by Baroness Seccombe To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the have had talks with the credit rating agencies with a annual budget of Cycling England in 2010/11 or view to restoring the United Kingdom’s AAA credit the last financial year for which figures are available. rating. [HL3421] [HL3688]

The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Deighton) (Con): The annual budget provided by the Deighton) (Con): The current European credit rating Department for Transport to Cycling England in 2010-11 regulation 1060/2009 stipulates that rating agencies was £63 million. monitor and review credit ratings on an ongoing basis and at least annually. Furthermore, the regulation states that: Cycling: Training “The credit rating agency shall inform the rated Question entity at least 12 hours before publication of the credit Asked by Baroness Seccombe rating and of the principal grounds on which the rating is based in order to give the entity an opportunity to To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the draw attention of the credit rating agency to any factual annual Bikeability budget for the current and next errors”. financial year. [HL3687] The Government’s long term economic plan has secured the UK’s strong credit rating, which has The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord contributed to lower borrowing costs and helped protect Deighton) (Con): The annual budget set by the Department frontline services. In June 2014, Standard and Poor’s for Transport for its Bikeability programme is: (S&P) revised the outlook on their UK AAA rating to £11.7 million in 2014-15; and £11.9m in 2015-16. stable, from negative. The key driver cited by S&P was ‘Amid further progress in consolidating public finances, Defence: Procurement the UK’s economic recovery is broadening.’ Question S&P have assigned the UK sovereign the top triple AAA rating since they first published a UK rating in Asked by Lord Chidgey 1978. Moody’s and Fitch have assigned the UK the To ask Her Majesty’s Government which platforms second highest rating Aa1 and AA+ respectively, with they expect will be able to fill any capability gaps at a stable outlook. an acceptable level of technical risk following the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review; and how long they expect it will take to integrate United Curriculum Kingdom complex weapons into the solutions. [HL3800] Question Asked by Lord Warner The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): The information To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to requested is not available. the Written Answer by Lord Nash on 27 November (HL3031), whether they consider that parents who Developing Countries: Trade learn that their children are being taught by a school that young earth creationism or intelligent Question design is scientifically valid are entitled to regard it Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead as evidence that that school is not offering a broad and balanced curriculum under the terms of section 78 To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps of the Education Act 2002. [HL3779] they will take to ensure that trade is understood to have a role in facilitating the post–2015 development objectives. [HL3729] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): Maintained schools are The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department obliged to comply with section 78 of the Education for International Development (Baroness Northover) Act 2002. Maintained schools that teach young earth (LD): Poverty eradication is at the forefront of the creationism or intelligent design as valid science undermine post-2015 development agenda and we propose to the teaching of established evolutionary theory and tackle this by promoting inclusive economic growth, are therefore not complying with the national curriculum social development and tackling climate change, in a or providing a broad and balanced curriculum as way that leaves no one behind. Trade plays a central required by section 78. If parents have concerns about role in achieving the ambitious agenda and the UK this they should raise the matter through the school’s will work to ensure that there are strong trade-related complaints procedure in the first instance. targets in the final post-2015 framework. WA 129 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 130

Diabetes The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) Question (Con): Under the Companies Act listed companies are Asked by Lord Morris of Aberavon required to report on diversity, including gender, in their annual reports. Company reporting is overseen To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps by the Financial Reporting Council and companies National Health Service clinical commissioning groups are required to follow the UK Corporate Governance have taken to investigate the reported progress of Code on a comply-or-explain basis. recent research in the United States regarding the In September 2014 FRC published an updated Code, development of an artificial pancreas; whether there including changes to the preface reinforcing the importance have been any interchanges between government- of diversity in all its forms on the board. This includes, funded researchers in the United Kingdom and the but is not limited to, gender and race. United States; and what assessment they have made At the launch on 15th December 2014, the Secretary of the level of resources available to United Kingdom of State for Business Innovation and Skills welcomed researchers in that area. [HL3525] a new private sector-led campaign which will look to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department address the lack of ethnic diversity in boardrooms, of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Artificial pancreas research based in part on research that indicates the proportion continues to progress in the United States, the United of Black & Ethnic Minority people in leadership Kingdom and worldwide. Clinical studies have shown positions is lower than expected compared to the that artificial pancreas systems can improve blood wider population (estimated at 5.1% and 14% respectively). sugar control, especially overnight, and reduce the Measuring progress is a key part of the campaign. number of episodes of low blood sugar (hypoglycaemia). Systems have been successfully used at home for the overnight period in adolescents and young adults but Diseases significant challenges arise from 24 hour use that Questions remain to be solved, particularly around exercise, food and physical activity. Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Artificial pancreas device systems and technologies To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the could be made available through National Health process by which NHS England makes decisions on Service commissioning once they have gone through whether to support the funding of treatments for the appropriate regulatory process to demonstrate safety rare diseases. [HL3552] and efficacy. UK research in this field is supported by funders The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department including the National Institute for Health Research of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England specialised (NIHR), the Wellcome Trust, Diabetes UK and the commissioning is supported by devolved clinical Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation (JDRF), in leadership. Specialised services are grouped into five collaboration with industry.The NIHR welcomes funding programmes of care: applications for research into any aspect of human health, including artificial pancreas systems. These - Internal Medicine; applications are subject to peer review and judged in - Cancer and Blood; open competition, with awards being made on the - Mental Health; basis of the importance of the topic to patients and - Trauma; and health and care services, value for money and scientific - Women and Children. quality. Within the programmes of care, 75 Clinical Reference The NIHR biomedical research centres at Cambridge Groups (CRGs) are responsible for preparing national and Imperial College London are making a significant specialised service-level strategy and developing specialised contribution to international research in this field. service contract products such as specifications and Dr Roman Hovorka, University of Cambridge, and policies. Dr Nick Oliver, Imperial College London are members of the Artificial Pancreas Consortium organised by In addition, the Specialised Commissioning Medicines the JDRF.This consortium meets annually with monthly Optimisation CRG works across all 75 service-specific conference calls providing a forum for discussions CRGs. between researchers from the US, UK and Australia. The Clinical Priorities Advisory Group (CPAG) There have been no formal interchanges between advises the Specialised Commissioning Committee on government-funded researchers in the UK and the US. commissioning of new treatments for rare diseases in England. CPAG’s membership includes clinicians, patient Directors: Equal Opportunities representatives and commissioners of health services. Question Recommendations are made by following the principles and criteria of a decision-making framework. Asked by Lord Tebbit The Specialised Commissioning Committee advises To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures the NHS England Board on development and they have in place to monitor the diversity of (1) implementation of strategy for specialised commissioning, Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic, and (2) LGBT, agreeing specialised commissioning priorities and work persons serving as directors of public companies. programmes, and receiving assurance that these are [HL3644] delivered. WA 131 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 132

The NHS England Board recommendations from Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) the Specialised Commissioning Committee and deliberates highly specialised technologies (HST) approved rare accordingly. disease treatments, (2) non-NICE HST approved This Written Answer contains the following attachment: rare disease treatments, and (3) rare disease treatments CPAG Decision-Making Framework (CPAG Decision- that are not selected for HST evaluation. [HL3740] Making Framework.pdf) Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Earl Howe: The Rare Diseases Advisory Group (RDAG) was established in March 2014 by NHS To ask Her Majesty’s Government what criteria England. It was set up to provide NHS England and have been established by NHS England to guide the the devolved administrations of Scotland, Wales and Clinical Priorities Advisory Group in its evaluation Northern Ireland with consistent advice on developing of the cost-effectiveness of treatments for rare and implementing the strategy for rare diseases and diseases. [HL3553] highly specialised services. The RDAG will also provide advice to NHS England and the devolved administrations to enable it to respond to consultations issued by the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department National Institute for Health and Care Excellence of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Rare Diseases Advisory (NICE) Highly Specialised Technology Programme Group considers the evaluation of all treatments for and to provide advice to NHS England and the devolved rare diseases and advises the Clinical Priorities Advisory administrations on the most appropriate services to Group (CPAG). The evidence base for treatments of deliver those highly specialised technologies that receive rare diseases is often more limited than for more a positive technology appraisal determination from common conditions. Therefore, allowances are made NICE. for greater uncertainty. In some cases, formal evaluation of cost effectiveness may not be possible or helpful. At the three meetings held by RDAG in 2014 the group has addressed proposals for some new treatments The decision making framework published on the to be considered for provision in the National Health NHS England website guides CPAG in assessing and Service. It has also considered a number of services, making a commissioning position recommendation. currently provided within the NHS, that meet the This Written Answer contained the following criteria of Highly Specialised Services (HSS) and should attachment: CPAG Decision-Making Framework (CPAG be considered as highly specialised and re-configured Decision-Making Framework.pdf) to be provided in expert centres. The group has also Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath considered a number of service specifications for HSS. Recommendations have been made to the Clinical To ask Her Majesty’s Government what budget Priorities Advisory Group based on these decisions. NHS England has established to fund treatments Any recommendations agreed by NHS England will for rare diseases. [HL3738] go out for a full three month consultation. Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England holds a To ask Her Majesty’s Government what budget of £13 billion with which to commission 145 prioritisation criteria are used by NHS England to specialised services. NHS England does not separately commission approved treatments for rare diseases. identify the costs of the treatment of rare diseases [HL3785] because many of the specialised services – for example neurosciences – include treatments for patients who Earl Howe: The Rare Diseases Advisory Group have both rare diseases and traumatic injuries. (RDAG) makes recommendations to NHS England and the devolved administrations of NHS Scotland, Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath NHS Wales and NHS Northern Ireland on issues related to highly specialised services (HSS). These To ask Her Majesty’s Government what estimates services are provided to a smaller number of patients they have made of the potential cost of treatments compared to specialised services; usually no more for rare diseases over the next five years. [HL3739] than 500 patients per year. For this reason they are typically best delivered nationally through a very small Earl Howe: No forecast by NHS England of aggregate number of centres of excellence. future expenditure on rare diseases is available. Examples of highly specialised services include liver NHS England uses a number of methodologies to transplant services, enzyme replacement therapy, and estimate the potential costs of any new treatment for secure forensic mental health services for young people. rare diseases. This includes working with the horizon It is also the role of RDAG to have an overview, across scanning team from the National Institute for Health the four countries of the United Kingdom, on the Research as well as with industry representatives and development and implementation of the strategy for other stakeholders such as patient groups and the rare diseases and HSS. National Institute for Health and Care Excellence. The Group makes recommendations to the Clinical Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Priorities Advisory Group (CPAG) about how highly specialised services should be commissioned. This includes To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the recommending which expert centres should be nominated process by which NHS England makes decisions on (or should no longer be nominated) to deliver highly whether to support the funding of (1) National specialised services. WA 133 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 134

The decision making framework published on the Programme, which is jointly funded by the Department NHS England website guides CPAG in assessing and for International Development and the British Council, making a commissioning decision recommendation. and the EU’s Erasmus + programme. The British A copy of the CPAG Decision-Making Framework is Council also offers an International School Award attached. which enables schools to have their international work However, NHS England is now reviewing the recognised. appropriate approach to prioritising new treatments and interventions within specialised commissioning. At the NHS England Board meeting held on 17 December Elizabeth Cross 2014 it was decided that a 90-day consultation will be Question carried out in early 2015 on the prioritisation framework Asked by Lord Morrow and decision-making process that NHS England should use to make commissioning decisions on new treatments To ask Her Majesty’s Government on how many and interventions. occasions the Queen Elizabeth Cross and Scroll has This Answer included the following attachment: been posthumously awarded to former soldiers whose CPAG Decision Making Framework (CPAG Decision death was not the result of being killed in action. Making Framework.pdf) [HL3511]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry Domestic Violence of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): The number Question of instances where the Elizabeth Cross and Memorial Asked by Baroness Gale Scroll has been awarded to the next of kin of Armed Forces personnel, whose death was not the result of To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to being killed in action, is not held centrally and could the reply by Baroness Williams of Trafford on be provided only at disproportionate cost. 25 November (HL Deb, col 772), when the national oversight group chaired by the Home Secretary will report its findings, to whom it will report, and Embassies whether its findings will be published. [HL3457] Question Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con): In response to Her Majesty’s To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Inspectorate of Constabulary’s (HMIC’s)report (March foreign states and commonwealth countries have 2014) which exposed significant failings in the police embassies, High Commissions or other diplomatic response to domestic violence and abuse, the Home missions in the United Kingdom. [HL3337] Secretary has established a National Oversight Group, which she is chairing, to drive delivery against all of Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): According to our the recommendations of the HMIC review. records a total of 175 foreign States and Commonwealth To date, the Group has met three times. The countries have embassies, High Commissions or other Government has committed to publishing updates on diplomatic missions in the United Kingdom. Further the work of the National Oversight Group. The first information can be found on the “Foreign embassies report will be published shortly. A copy of the report in the UK” page on the Government website at: https:// will be placed in the libraries of both Houses. www.gov.uk/government/publications/foreign- embassies-in-the-uk. Copies of the current lists of diplomatic missions and consular offices outside London Educational Exchanges are attached. Question This Answer included the following attachment: London Diplomatic List as at 17 December 2014 Asked by Lord Storey (London_Diplomatic_List_-November_2014.pdf) To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have plans formally to recognise international high school exchanges. [HL3767] Energy Question The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lord Nash) (Con): The Government recognises that school links and exchanges can provide valuable To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment opportunities to learn about other countries and to have they made of local authorities setting up energy improve language skills. It is, however, for individual companies to provide cheaper energy to their schools to decide whether or not they wish to participate residents. [HL3634] in such exchanges. For those who do, there are many opportunities The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department available, for example through the British Council’s of Energy and Climate Change (Baroness Verma) (Con): Connecting Classrooms programme, the Global Learning This Government is keen to understand the re-emergence WA 135 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 136 of local authorities as energy companies and the potential The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department benefits to their residents. In order to tackle the barriers for International Development (Baroness Northover) surrounding this we launched the UK’s first Community (LD): We remain deeply concerned by the political Energy Strategy in January 2014 and we take views situation in Eritrea; the UN estimates that around from a Local Supply Working Group. 200 migrants leave Eritrea daily, with Sudan and Ethiopia Our Strategy recognises that local authorities are as their primary destinations. Those who choose to crucial to community energy activities and sets out leave Eritrea do so for a variety of reasons, including a how Government intends to help communities build desire to avoid performing national service for an strong and productive partnerships with the public indeterminate length of time and to seek greater economic sector. One of the commitments is to carry out a opportunity than currently available in Eritrea. Our sector survey in 2016, including a local authority Ambassador in Asmara regularly monitors events in section. Eritrea and works closely with the UNHCR, through whom we receive monthly updates on migration. The We welcome recent developments in local authority UK Government has made representations to the engagement in the energy sector, for example, Cheshire Government of Eritrea to improve its observance of East Council is the first local authority to have entered human rights, and works with European partners on into a partnership with Ovo Energy under their new the implementation of the Eritrea Country Programme ‘Communities’ tariff. It is too early to make an assessment under the Eleventh European Development Fund to of these developments as the details are still being help provide greater economic growth and opportunities. finalised. In addition we expect to know the outcome early Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead next year of the application by the Greater London To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether Authority for a “Licence Lite”– if successful, the GLA negotiations are taking place with the government will be the first authority to take advantage of Ofgem’s of Eritrea about the number of refugees from that streamlined arrangements for supplying electricity. country coming to the European Union and, in particular, to the United Kingdom. [HL3730] Entry Clearances: Nepal The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Question Office (Lord Bates) (Con): There is an ongoing dialogue Asked by Lord Ashcroft on migration related issues between representatives of the UK and Eritrean governments, including a recent To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to meeting with my Hon. Friend, the Immigration and Written Answer by Lord Bates on 8 December Security Minister (James Brokenshire)and the Eritrean (HL3326), whether the staff who actually carry out Foreign Minister Osman Saleh on 27 November in the application reviews for entry clearance applications Rome. This took place in the margins of a conference made in Nepal are aware of that policy, and whether to launch the new European Union - African Union checks are carried out to ensure that is so. [HL3645] ‘Khartoum Process’. The UK is playing an active role in this initiative which is bringing together EU countries and those in The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home the Horn of Africa, including Eritrea, to support Office (Lord Bates) (Con): All visa applications are dialogue and cooperation to tackle people smuggling considered under the Immigration Rules. As the and human trafficking in the region. More recently, Immigration Rules do not state that there needs to be there has been a visit to Eritrea by a joint delegation of a demand for specific graduates in the students’ home senior Home Office and Foreign Office officials on country, the degree subject is not a consideration for 9-11 December to discuss a range of migration topics, the Entry Clearance Officer. including the current drivers of irregular migration Any student application refused under PBS Tier 4 and ways to mitigate it, asylum and returns, and of the Immigration Rules can be subject to an potential areas for joint co-operation. Administrative Review (AR). The AR is conducted by an official at a more senior grade than the original Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead decision maker. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether human rights issues will remain a firm condition for the granting of development aid to the Government of Eritrea Eritrea. [HL3781] Questions Baroness Northover: DfID does not have a bilateral Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool development programme in Eritrea, but makes a To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their humanitarian contribution through UNICEF, until estimate of the number of refugees and displaced June 2015, for health, nutrition, water and sanitation. people who have left Eritrea over the past twelve Across our humanitarian programmes we consider months; what they consider to be the factors involved key human rights issues including issues of impartiality, in their decision to leave; what they consider to be protection, principles of do no harm, conflict sensitivity, their primary destinations; and what is their assessment access to vulnerable groups and the needs of women of future conditions in Eritrea. [HL3705] and girls. In countries where DfID does have, or is WA 137 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 138 planning to have, bilateral development programmes, The issue of Habeas Corpus was discussed during the extent of partner Governments’ commitment to the passage of the Act through Parliament in 2003 and respecting human rights and other international has been ruled on by the courts, with both making it obligations is one of four Partnership Principles assessed clear that the remedy remains available in EAW cases. by country offices. The Government has made For example, Lord Justice Baker concluded in the representations to the Government of Eritrea to improve matter of Nikonovs v Governor of Brixton Prison its observance of human rights, and works with European [2006] that “In my view the passages from Hansard partners on the implementation of the Eritrea Country that I have cited make the answer clear beyond a Programme under the Eleventh European Development peradventure ... In my judgment the remedy is available”. Fund to help provide for greater economic growth and opportunity. Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether European Commission consideration has been given to changing European Question Union policies on Eritrea as part of an attempt to Asked by Lord Willoughby de Broke reduce the number of refugees from that country. [HL3782] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they consider that the statement on 10 December by the Baroness Anelay of St Johns: The UK remains President of the Court of Justice of the European concerned by increasing numbers of irregular migrants Union that “The European Commission is more from Eritrea to Western Europe. The UK and EU than ever a political body” is compatible with the partners will continue to work with Eritrea through Commission’s role as set out in the Maastricht the new EU - Horn of Africa Migration Route Initiative Treaty. [HL3675] (‘Khartoum Process’) to advance cooperation on human trafficking and irregular migration. Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The Government is EU Budget: Contributions clear that the European Commission’s role is as set out Question in the relevant Treaties. Article 17 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) specifies that the European Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon Commission’s role includes, inter alia, ensuring the application of the Treaties and overseeing the application To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their of Union law under the control of the Court of Justice present projection of the United Kingdom’s gross of the European Union. Article 17 of the TEU also and net contributions to the European Union budget provides that, in carrying out its responsibilities, the for the whole of the seven year budget agreement Commission shall be completely independent. 2014–20. [HL3534]

The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Deighton) (Con): The independent Office for Budget Responsibility is responsible for forecasting UK gross European Protection Orders and net contributions to the EU Budget. The Office Question for Budget Responsibility’s forecasts can be found in Asked by Lord Harris of Haringey Table 2.19 of its Economic and Fiscal Outlook supplementary and fiscal tables – December 2014.[1] To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they [1] This table can be found at the following link: plan to implement the European Protection Order http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/economic-fiscal-outlook- (EU Directive 2011/99/EU) that requires member december-2014/ states to introduce procedures whereby the victims of domestic violence can get a non-molestation order from the courts in one member state which European Arrest Warrants will then be automatically recognised in other member Question states. [HL3509] Asked by Lord Wade of Chorlton

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord they have made of the impact of the European Faulks) (Con): EU Directive 2011/99/EU on the European Arrest Warrant on the application of habeas Protection Order comes into force on 11 January 2015 corpus. [HL3703] and the Government plans to implement it by way of statutory instrument made under section 2(2) of the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home European Communities Act 1972, on the same day. At Office (Lord Bates): Part 1 of the Extradition Act the same time, the Government will also implement 2003 implemented the European Arrest Warrant. We the related EU Regulation on the mutual recognition are clear that the remedy of Habeas Corpus still exists of protection measures in civil matters, (606/3013) in cases involving the European Arrest Warrant. which comes into force on the same day. WA 139 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 140

European Union practice themselves. To keep girls safe we need to work directly with local people who know what will work in Question their areas. Asked by Lord Kilclooney Faith has an important role to play. At the Girl To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the Summit we launched declarations for faith leaders to electorate in a referendum on a new European sign against female genital mutilation and forced marriage. Union treaty or an amendment to an existing treaty These have now been signed by over 350 leaders from will include electors registered in Gibraltar.[HL3803] all major faiths. These declarations make it clear that no religion condones the practice. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth The Department for Communities and Local Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): Electors Government and the Government Equalities Office registered in Gibraltar vote in European Parliament have also committed £270,000 to community projects elections and would vote in any referenda held on EU to prevent female genital mutilation and other forms treaty change, whether the adoption of a new treaty or of so-called honour based violence. We recently amendments to an existing treaty, where that would announced the projects that successfully secured this affect Gibraltar, as set out by the European Union funding. We will fund 17 community projects which Act 2011. include three organisations that will set up networks of community champions against female genital mutilation and forced marriage. Exclusion Orders Many of these projects will work with young people. Question Brave young women and men have been at the forefront Asked by Lord Warner of campaigning against female genital mutilation and their courage and determination inspire us all to do To ask Her Majesty’s Government , further to more. Videos of the projects can be found at http:// the Written Answer by Lord Bates on 15 December www.thinglink.com/scene/597214845217013762. (HL3642), whether they consider the public advocacy of rape to be a ground for excluding a person from This funding is in addition to £100,000 committed entering the United Kingdom. [HL3867] by the Home Office to run a female genital mutilation community engagement initiative. The Home Office is The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home funding 12 voluntary and community sector organisations Office (Lord Bates) (Con): The Home Secretary has to carry out community work to raise awareness of the power to personally exclude foreign nationals from female genital mutilation amongst women already affected the UK if the person’s presence in the UK is considered by this and young girls at-risk, as well as men in the not to be conducive to the public good. The power to community. exclude is broad, but is normally used in circumstances On 5 December 2014 the Government also launched involving national security, unacceptable behaviours, a new female genital mutilation unit to drive a step international relations/foreign policy, and serious organised change in nationwide outreach on female genital crime. mutilation with criminal justice partners, children’s The unacceptable behaviours policy covers a list of services, healthcare professionals and affected non-exhaustive indicators, including where individuals communities. express views which foment serious criminal activity The unit will deliver outreach support to local areas or seek to provoke others to commit serious criminal to assist them in developing their local response to acts. tackling female genital mutilation and to raise awareness Exclusion decisions are very serious and no decision of the unit. The first phase of this work will be carried to exclude is taken lightly. These powers are only used out in a series of training workshops which Forward when justified and based on all available evidence. UK are delivering to Local Safeguarding Children’s These decisions are made according to the individual Boards in high prevalence female genital mutilation circumstances of each case. areas. The unit will also offer bespoke targeted peer Female Genital Mutilation support to local areas who want to strengthen their Question ability to tackle female genital mutilation. Organisations interested in receiving peer support or Asked by The Lord Bishop of St Albans an outreach presentation can email the unit at [email protected]. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they are resourcing the provision of training and education in communities in the United Kingdom in which Asked by The Lord Bishop of St Albans female genital mutilation is practised. [HL3454]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they for Communities and Local Government (Lord Ahmad intend to ensure better co-ordination of guidance of Wimbledon) (Con): Long-term and systematic given to medical practitioners, teachers, and faith eradication of female genital mutilation in the UK leaders on reporting and protecting girls from female will require practising communities to abandon the genital mutilation. [HL3452] WA 141 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 142

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they Flour intend to increase prosecution rates against those who have committed offences relating to female Question genital mutilation. [HL3453] Asked by Lord Rooker

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the they have to collate statistics centrally on cases of total annual cost of the fortification of flour; and female genital mutilation, both in the United Kingdom whether this cost is shared with the devolved and involving British citizens extra-territorially. administrations. [HL3792] [HL3455] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department To ask Her Majesty’s Government what for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord De consideration they have given to the recommendations Mauley) (Con): The cost of fortifying flour is borne by of peer studies on female genital mutilation, such the milling industry rather than by central government as the Bristol PEER Study. [HL3456] departments or devolved administrations. It is estimated that, in 2013, UK production of those types of flour which the law requires to be fortified with iron, calcium, thiamine and niacin was approximately 3.5 million The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home tonnes, and the cost to the industry of purchasing the Office (Lord Bates) (Con): At the Girl Summit, hosted four mandatory fortificants for that tonnage of flour by the Prime Minister, in July 2014, the Government would have been £2.5 million. set out a clear commitment to end female genital mutilation (FGM) and announced a comprehensive Nutrient £ Cost (per tonne of flour) package of domestic measures to achieve this. The Government published update multi-agency guidelines Calcium 0.41p to support better co-ordination of guidance on protecting Vitamin Premix (Thiamin + 0.30p girls from FGM. On 5 December the Government Niacin + Iron) published a public consultation which seeks views on Total Cost 0.71p how to put these guidelines on a statutory basis to increase awareness of FGM and improve compliance with good practice. Forced Marriage Protection Orders The Government also set out a range of measures Questions to improve the law enforcement response and increase Asked by Lord Lester of Herne Hill prosecution rates for FGM including the introduction of new legislation, the publication of new police To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many guidance on FGM, and a review by Her Majesty’s applications for a Forced Marriage Protection Order Inspectorate of Constabulary into ‘so called’ honour have been made since the coming into force of the based violence with a focus on FGM to commence in Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act 2007; and 2015. In addition, 42 forces have signed joint how many have been successful. [HL3646] protocols with the Crown Prosecution Service on the investigation and prosecution of FGM, and the To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Government published a consultation on 5 December applications have been made for a Forced Marriage on how to introduce a mandatory reporting duty to Protection Order since the coming into force of the increase referrals to the police in order to support Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014. more prosecutions. [HL3647]

A prevalence study on FGM was also published by Equality Now and City University on 22 July, part-funded The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord by the Home Office, identifying that approximately Faulks) (Con): Forced marriage is an appalling practice 60, 000 girls aged 0-14 have been born in England and and should not be tolerated. That is why the Government Wales to mothers who had undergone FGM. Further has criminalised forced marriage to ensure that victims data disaggregated to a local level will be published in are protected by the law. The new offences of forced early 2015. In addition, the Health and Social Care marriage in section 121 of the Anti-social Behaviour, Information Centre published the first ever NHS FGM Crime and Policing Act 2014 came into force on data on 16 October. This is a critical first step in 16 June. understanding the extent of FGM in England as Since the Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act reported to health professionals. 2007 came into force on 25 November 2008 and up to the end of September 2014, 762 applications for a The Government works in close partnership with forced marriage protection order have been made, and stakeholders in reviewing peer studies on FGM, and 785 forced marriage protection orders have been issued. is committed to identifying and sharing good The number of orders made generally exceeds the practice. On 22 July, the Government published a number of applications as forced marriage protection FGM resource pack on gov.uk including examples of orders are sometimes made during the course of good local practice in Bristol informed by the Bristol applications for other family orders, and there is no Peer study. differentiation between interim orders and final orders. WA 143 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 144

Section 120 of the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime Special Educational Needs, have been agreed to, and Policing Act 2014, which also came into force on and how many refused, by the Secretary of 16 June 2014, made it a criminal offence to breach a State. [HL3777] forced marriage protection order. There were 63 applications for a forced marriage protection order in the period 1 July to 30 September 2014. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): Since 2010 we have received over 1500 applications to open a free school, all of Foreign Investment in UK which will have had some focus on the inclusion of disabled learners. Within this number we have received Question 89 applications to establish special free schools, 22 of Asked by Lord Kinnock which have been approved to proceed to the pre-opening stage and 67 rejected. The 67 applications were rejected To ask Her Majesty’s Government what success because they failed to meet our quality threshold. has thus far been achieved by the Regeneration Three of the 11 open special free schools have been Investment Organisation in securing investment from inspected by Ofsted, (with two being rated as ‘Good’ overseas investors for projects in (1) Greater London, and one as ‘Outstanding’). Once open, all free schools and (2) parts of the United Kingdom outside Greater have a statutory duty to make sure disabled students London that are not included in the National are not discriminated against and to promote their Investment Plan. [HL3632] interests.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) Fuels: Prices (Con): UKTI has been focused on securing investment Question in UK regeneration projects for three years. The Regeneration Investment Organisation was established Asked by Lord Browne of Belmont within UKTI a year ago to strengthen this support for To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their regeneration projects nationwide. assessment of the effect of the cost of fuel on the RIO currently has more than ten active commercial well-being of older people. [HL3505] dialogues between investors and regeneration projects following introductions. Additionally, successes by RIO (or by UKTI preceding The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department the establishment of RIO) include the following: of Energy and Climate Change (Baroness Verma) (Con): We provide specific support for pensioner households 1) Greater London: RIO worked in partnership through the Winter Fuel Payment and Cold Weather with London & Partners and the Greater London Payments. Furthermore, this winter some 1.4 million Authority to encourage investment from new of the poorest pensioners across Great Britain will participants in markets including China, Malaysia, receive £140 off their electricity bill under the Warm Singapore, UAE, USA, Canada. UKTI was Home Discount scheme. This is an increase of 200,000 involved in attracting international investment in compared to last year, and around twice as many to Battersea Power Station and Nine Elms households as were helped in 2010/11, the first year of alongside L&P and the GLA. the scheme. The value of the discount has also increased 2) Outside Greater London: UKTI, working with each year since 2010/11. local partners, helped in the successful In addition, we have issued guidance for all households introduction of a Chinese investor to Manchester and consumers, including older people, on how they City Airport, an £800m scheme. It also secured can prepare for winter and save energy and money in investment for residential schemes in Manchester the document Keep Warm This Winter which is available and Solihull. RIO is focused on ensuring that there at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/keep- is a very strong longer-term pipeline of investable warm-this-winter. projects outside London – currently 90% are outside the capital. RIO works with all parts of the This Written Answer contained the following UK, whether or not there are projects in that area attachment: Keep Warm This Winter that are included in the National Infrastructure (DECC_Getting_ready_for_Winter__web.pdf) Plan. Details remain confidential at this stage but RIO will shortly announce a major project outside of London. Future of the Home Care Workforce Commission Question Free Schools: Disability Question Asked by Lord Ouseley Asked by Baroness King of Bow To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they intend to respond to the assessment of the standards To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many of domiciliary care in the report from the Burstow applications to establish a free school with a focus Commission on the future of the home care on inclusion of disabled learners, with or without workforce. [HL3507] WA 145 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 146

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department The CQC uses nationally available published data of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Government is taking and will continue to work with the data providers to a variety of actions to drive up the quality of home ensure that robust data are used. care services and improve the working conditions of The CQC is also reviewing the quality assurance of staff. all of its outward facing analyses to ensure any necessary The Care Quality Commission (CQC) has introduced actions are taken to deliver quality data analysis in the a new system of inspection of social care providers. future. The new inspections are structured around five key Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath questions that matter most to people – are services safe, caring, effective, well-led and responsive to people’s To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment needs? they have made of the impact of the withdrawal of From 1 April 2015, providers will be under a legal Personal Medical Services payments on practices duty to meet a new set of registration requirements with a large number of deprived patients. [HL3786] that include new fundamental standards. The CQC has a range of enforcement powers it can employ to Earl Howe: The Department has made no such ensure providers comply with these standards, including analysis. the ability to prosecute both providers and directors that are responsible for unacceptable standards of NHS England is in the process of reviewing Personal care. We are also introducing a “fit and proper person” Medical Services (PMS) contracts to ensure fair funding test for directors. Where a director is deemed by the for all general practices. Area teams will work with CQC to be unfit for the role, it will be able to insist PMS practices to assess the impact of any reduction in upon his/her removal. payments on its registered patients. The Department worked with the Association of Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Directors of Adult Social Services, the Local Government Association and the Health Services Management Centre Toask Her Majesty’s Government how the proposed at the University of Birmingham to develop a set of changes to the funding formula for general practices commissioning standards for local authorities. The take account of the pressures on practices with a standards were launched successfully at the National high level of deprivation amongst their patients. Children’s and Adults’ Services conference in October [HL3788] 2014 and will now be piloted by a number of local authorities. Earl Howe: Typically, at least half of the money Local authorities will be encouraged to use them to that a General Medical Services practice receives is in support improvement in their commissioning practices, the form of ‘Global Sum’ derived through the Carr-Hill including those which impact on the social care workforce, formula. The Carr-Hill formula, as agreed with the such as provider compliance with National Minimum British Medical Association, is used to allocate the Wage requirements and fair employee contracting terms. Global Sum and related payments on the basis of The Government is also naming and shaming the practice population, weighted for factors that influence employers that break National Minimum Wage laws relative needs and costs. and helping staff to recover the pay owed to them. Currently, the Carr-Hill formula includes a weighting for deprivation factors. It includes adjustments for levels of chronic disease and premature mortality, General Practitioners both of which are highly correlated with social deprivation. This was based on academic research to establish Questions which factors – in addition to age and sex – best Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark predict variations in workload between GP practices. A national review of the Carr-Hill formula is ongoing. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they plan to take to ensure that general practitioner Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath risk data are correct. [HL3465] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the account NHS England takes The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department in its approach to the deregistering of “ghost” of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Care Quality patients of those general practitioner practices which Commission (CQC) is the independent regulator of experience a high degree of mobility amongst their health and adult social care in England. The CQC is patients. [HL3789] responsible for developing and consulting on its methodology for assessing whether providers are meeting The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department the registration requirements. of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England is responsible The CQC has advised the following: for commissioning primary medical services in England. Following feedback from national and local NHS England issues guidance, Tackling list inflation stakeholders, and working with NHS England, the for primary medical services, to help general practitioner CQC last week completed a comprehensive review of practices manage their patient lists. This can be found the general practitioner intelligent monitoring data at: and, as a result, made a number of changes to the http://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/ intelligent monitoring tool. 2013/10/tack-infla.pdf WA 147 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 148

It is good practice for NHS England to undertake the consistency of presentation and titling, (3) ensuring regular ‘list cleansing’ exercises to ensure that their greater consistency in the content of departmental patient lists are up-to-date in order to promote fairness reporting, particularly in including the subject of and efficiency. meetings, and (4) ensuring that the gov.uk transparency This Answer included the following attachment: pages contain a link to the statutory register of Tackling list inflation (Tackling list inflation for primary lobbyists so that the data can be easily cross- medical services.pdf) referenced. [HL3474]

Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): Cabinet Office regularly General Practitioners: Peterborough monitors adherence to departmental open data Question commitments, as well as timeliness of their publication across government. We are making regular efforts to Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath improve access to and presentation of the data, including To ask Her Majesty’s Government what analysis by improving the consistency of presentation and they have undertaken of the impact of the phasing titling. out of Personal Medical Services payments on Steps have already been taken to improve the the viability of the Millfield Medical Centre, consistency of Ministers’, Senior Officials’ and Special Peterborough. [HL3787] Advisers’transparency returns and technical improvements to the presentation of this data will be introduced for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department information published in 2015. The recently established of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England is in the independent Office of the Registrar of Consultant process of reviewing Personal Medical Services (PMS) Lobbyists now has a web presence on gov.uk and the contracts to ensure fair funding for all general practices Government will ensure that the transparency pages and its East Anglia Area Team will be carrying out a of gov.uk provide a link to the statutory register once full review of the Millfield Medical Centre’s PMS launched. contract in early 2015. Government Departments: Pensions Gibraltar Question Question Asked by Lord Mendelsohn Asked by Lord Kilclooney To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their To ask Her Majesty’s Government how old are estimate of the Government Employee Pension the two Royal Navy vessels providing security in liability. [HL3478] British waters at Gibraltar; what is their maximum potential speed in knots; and what is the estimated The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord speed of the Spanish naval vessels which have made Deighton) (Con): The Whole of Government Accounts incursions in those waters. [HL3697] for 2012-13 showed that the value of public service pension liabilities was £1,171.6 billion. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): HMS SCIMITAR is 21 years old; HMS SABRE is 22 years Government Departments: Staff old. Both are capable of travelling in excess of 25 knots, Question which enables them to fulfil their assigned role. Asked by Lord Marlesford The speed of Spanish naval vessels is a matter for them. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will update the table in the Written Answer by Lord Henley on 10 January 2012 (HL14312) showing Government Departments: Disclosure how many members of Home Office staff have of Information been convicted of criminal offences in connection Question with their official activities in each of the last five years, showing in each case the name of the Asked by Lord Tyler offender, the date of conviction and the sentence received. [HL3693] To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the remarks by Lord Wallace of Tankerness on 13 January (HL Deb, cols 19–20), what progress The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home they have made in fulfilling their commitments to Office (Lord Bates): Since June 2013, there have been make further improvements to the accessibility of three additional cases of members of Home Office government transparency information by (1) ensuring staff that have been convicted of criminal offences in greater co-ordination of the publication of data connection with their official activities. The nature of sets so that all returns within a quarter can be the offences are in the table provided. found on one page, (2) improving the access to and This Answer included the following attachment presentation of those data, including by improving Table 1 (Table v1.doc) WA 149 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 150

Health: Screening commissioning groups should also be providing details of services for deaf children as part of their published Question offer under the new statutory framework for special Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath educational needs and disability. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any plans to evaluate the NHS Check programme. [HL3513] Higher Education: Admissions The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Question of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Commons Science Asked by Lord Sharkey and Technology Select Committee recently recommended a review of the Health Check programme in its report To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many on the National Screening Committee. The Government students (1) from the United Kingdom, and (2) will publish its response to the Committee’s report, from other countries, were admitted to Higher including the recommendation on the NHS Health Education Institutions in England for each of the Check programme, in the new year. five years to August 2014; and for each of those years, how many of each of those groups of students were admitted as (a) full-time undergraduates, (b) Hearing Impairment: Children part-time undergraduates, (c) full-time postgraduates, Questions (d) part-time postgraduates, (e) full-time mature students, and (f) part-time mature students.[HL3809] Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath To ask Her Majesty’s Government what information they are currently making available to parents of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department deaf children about the quality of paediatric audiology for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) services. [HL3548] (Con): The Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment collects data on students enrolled at UK Higher Education they have made of the quality of paediatric audiology Providers. services, and how they will be monitored in the Statistics on entrants by mode of study, level of future. [HL3549] study and domicile were published by HESA in Table 2 of their Statistical First Release “Higher Education To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Student Enrolments and Qualifications obtained at Higher will consider mandating NHS England to ensure Education Providers in the United Kingdom. (https:// that all children’s audiology services both undertake www.hesa.ac.uk/component/content/article?id=3103) the Improving Quality In Physiological Services process and sign waivers of confidentiality so that Statistics on the number of entrants by age, mode all information about the quality of children’s audiology and domicile is shown in the attached table. services is available to families of deaf children. Figures for 2013/14 will become available when [HL3550] HESA publish their annual Statistical First Release on 15 January 2015. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department This Answer included the following attachment: of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): We are advised by NHS Entrants by domicile1, level, mode of study and ag (HL3809 (28837).xlsx) England that the Improving Quality in Physiological Services programme, run jointly by the United Kingdom of Accreditation Service (UKAS) and the Royal College of Physicians (RCP), is raising the profile of accreditation and quality assurance schemes for physiological diagnostic HIV Infection services. A mapping exercise is underway to identify those services which are accredited or working towards Question accreditation which is an integral improvement step Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath on the pathway to full accreditation as a mark of quality. To date audiology services are making good To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans progress towards accreditation. are in place for the national HIV prevention programme Commissioning of accredited services is considered beyond April 2016. [HL3790] good practice and should be encouraged. UKAS and RCP are supporting the NHS England business objective to increase the use of accreditation. Information about The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department those services which have achieved accreditation is of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): We are looking to be publicly available on the UKAS website. more ambitious and innovative in the way we deliver All hospital providers of audiology services are the HIV prevention programme in 2015-16 and beyond. registered with the Care Quality Commission and This programme will be part of our longer-term strategy information on their monitoring and inspections is for sexual and reproductive health which we plan to freely available online. Local authorities and clinical announce in the New Year. WA 151 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 152

Honour Based Violence most serious cases where there is a threat to life, witnesses may be referred to the UK Protected Person Questions Service for the highest level of protection. Asked by The Lord Bishop of St Albans To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps House of Lords: Catering they are taking to ensure uniform police reporting, Question in forces across the United Kingdom, of honour killings. [HL3489] Asked by Lord Avebury To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many To ask the Chairman of Committees what has British citizens are the victims of honour killings been (1) the expenditure, and (2) the profit or each year. [HL3490] deficit, for the years 2012–13 and 2013–14 of each To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps catering outlet in the House of Lords. [HL3837] they are taking to improve extra-territorial reporting The Chairman of Committees (Lord Sewel): The and prosecution of honour killings. [HL3491] turnover, expenditure and profit or loss of each Catering To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans and Retail Service outlet in 2012-13 and 2013-14 are they have to ensure that the safety of those who set out in the tables below. testify against their relatives in honour killing cases 2012-13 can be better protected. [HL3492] Expenditure Outlet Turnover (£) (£) Profit/loss (£)

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Peers’ Dining 491,364 1,308,224 -816,860 Office (Lord Bates) (Con): The government finds so Room called honour-based violence unacceptable and condemns Barry Room 238,267 498,307 -260,040 this practice. At the Girl Summit in July the College of Home Room 44,838 182,122 -137,284 Policing announced the development of a new Authorised River 257,041 689,116 -432,075 Professional Practice (APP) for police on honour based Restaurant violence and forced marriage. The APP is the official Bishops Bar 51,399 111,197 -59,798 and most up to date source of policing practice. In Peers Guest 59,952 56,524 3,428 2015 Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabularies Room will be carrying out an inspection into honour based Lords Bar 99,612 130,914 -31,302 violence. The inspection will look at the way cases are Millbank 90,139 205,036 -114,897 handled, how officers are trained and any community House based prevention work. While the government does not hold specific data 2013-14 on honour killings of British citizens as it is not a Expenditure separately identifiable offence, the Crown Prosecution Outlet Turnover (£) (£) Profit/loss (£) Service Violence Against Women and Girls Report Peers’ Dining 554,236 1,441,232 -886,996 2013-14 published in July 2014 sets out that the volume Room of referrals from the police to the Crown Prosecution Barry Room 204,882 466,362 -261,480 Service of honour based violence related offences rose Home Room 29,503 163,502 -133,999 to 240 in 2013-14 from 230 in 2012-2013. 158 (65.8% River 258,457 703,978 -445,521 of these referrals) were charged. 206 defendants were Restaurant prosecuted for honour based violence related offences Bishops Bar 60,090 125,399 -65,310 in 2013-2014, a rise from 200 last year, with 59.7% Peers Guest 60,045 75,335 -15,290 convicted. Room Lords Bar 106,561 102,746 3,815 To improve the extra-territorial reporting and Millbank 91,430 240,236 -148,806 prosecution of honour killings, extra-territorial provision House is included in the new forced marriage offence, introduced through the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis Act 2014. The Serious Crime Bill includes provisions to extend extra-territorial jurisdiction over offences of Questions female genital mutilation, recognised in some instances Asked by The Lord Bishop of Truro as a type of honour based violence, committed abroad. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will Witnesses in cases of honour based violence may be encourage the personalisation of oxygen services eligible for special measures during the trial, such as specifically for patients with idiopathic pulmonary giving evidence from behind a screen or with the fibrosis and ensure that users are thoroughly trained assistance of a video link, to enable them to give their to avoid incorrect oxygen techniques. [HL3870] best possible evidence. The Judge can also order that To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps the court is cleared if intimidation is suspected in the they are taking to make sure that all patients diagnosed court room. The police can employ measures with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis are assessed for proportionate to an assessed risk to the witness, including and offered access to appropriate courses of pulmonary the installation of locks and security alarms. In the rehabilitation. [HL3871] WA 153 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 154

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home guarantee that all people with idiopathic pulmonary Office (Lord Bates) (Con): No assessment of immigrants’ fibrosis are assessed for appropriate and personalised contribution to the United Kingdom on the basis of oxygen therapy after diagnosis. [HL3872] nationality has been conducted by Her Majesty’s Government, but it would be open to a number of departments to do so. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Clinicians are responsible for prescribing home oxygen and robust oxygen assessment Imports services are in place across the country. Questions In terms of personalisation, there is little specific evidence to suggest that prescribing of oxygen for Asked by Lord Pearson of Rannoch idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis should be any different from that of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the 2013 other causes of respiratory failure. Oxygen therapy is calendar year, what was the split of the total imports the treatment for the lack of oxygen whatever the of goods from outside the European Union, between specific disease. (1) industrial goods, and (2) processed and unprocessed Commissioning of home oxygen services should be agricultural and fish products; and what were the overseen by clinical commissioning groups except where corresponding aggregate gross (before handling charge) an individual requires specialised services. In these values of the Common External Tariff charged by circumstances, oxygen therapy is covered in the service HM Revenue and Customs on (a) industrial goods, specification for specialised commissioning of interstitial and (b) processed and unprocessed agricultural and lung disease. Where oxygen is prescribed at home, fish products. [HL3678] NHS England would expect that training is given by the provider on the correct use of the equipment. The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord NHS England expects commissioners and providers Deighton) (Con): In 2013 total imports of goods by to take account of National Institute for Health and volume from outside the EU was split 96.6% industrial Care Excellence (NICE) guidance on oxygen and goods and 3.4% agricultural and fish products. rehabilitation in commissioning and providing these The split by customs duty paid was 84.3% services. A NICE Quality Standard is also being developed (£2,406,874,076) for industrial goods and 15.7% in this area. (£448,545,528) for agricultural products. In addition, the British Thoracic Society (which is Asked by Lord Pearson of Rannoch NICE accredited) is due to launch its home oxygen clinical guidelines in February 2015. To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the 2013 calendar year, what was the aggregate value of imports of goods from outside the European Union Immigration on which HM Revenue and Customs charged a positive Common External Tariff (CET); and what Question was the corresponding aggregate value of the CET Asked by Lord Turnberg so charged. [HL3679] To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Lord Deighton on 5 December Lord Deighton: In 2013, goods subject to a positive (HL3055), whether they have published an impact duty charge with an aggregate value of £46,801,238,041 assessment on the fiscal impact of immigration into were imported from outside the EU. Customs duty totalling £2,855,517,901 was charged and collected on the United Kingdom since 2008. [HL3816] these goods. Asked by Lord Pearson of Rannoch The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Deighton) (Con): The government has not published To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the 2013 an impact assessment on the fiscal impact of immigration calendar year, what was the aggregate value of into the United Kingdom since 2008. The fiscal impacts imports of goods from outside the European Union of migration are considered in impact assessments on which HM Revenue and Customs effectively published by the government where appropriate. charged zero Common External Tariff (CET), whether this was because the product in question was not liable to CET or because it was zero-rated. [HL3680] Immigration: Poland Question Lord Deighton: During 2013, the aggregate value of goods imported from outside the EU on which no Asked by Lord Patten customs duty was charged was £216,685,828,867. To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to Asked by Lord Pearson of Rannoch the Written Answer by Lord Freud on 2 December (HL3119), which department would have the authority To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to to carry out an assessment of the contribution of the Written Answer by Lord Sassoon on 28 May Polish immigrants to the United Kingdom. [HL3587] 2012 (WA 112–3), what were the top 20 categories WA 155 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 156

(as defined by HM Revenue and Customs) of goods Value of goods Customs imported from outside the European Union in 2013 Rank (£) duty paid (£) Category description according to value of imports; and how much was collected by HMRC in gross customs duties in each 13 3,135,140,133 2,224 Works of art, collectors’ pieces and of those categories in 2013. [HL3681] antiques 14 2,804,838,221 55,333,629 Toys, games and Lord Deighton: The top 20 categories of goods sports requisites, parts and accessories imported from outside the European Union in 2013 thereof by value are detailed in the table below. The table also 15 2,622,013,962 36,523,824 Articles of iron or provides details of the customs duties collected for steel each category as defined by the integrated tariff of the 16 2,577,771,512 35,193,037 Organic chemicals United Kingdom. 17 2,533,965,297 234,672,999 Footwear, gaiters and the like, parts of such Value of goods Customs articles Rank (£) duty paid (£) Category description 18 2,172,023,552 88,034,379 Edible fruit and nuts; peel of citrus fruit or 1 41,171,266,525 1,126,611 Mineral fuels, melons mineral oils and products made 19 1,858,239,088 nil Ores, slag and ash thereof 20 1,696,793,223 34,745,661 Rubber and articles 2 25,579,474,047 135,782,315 Nuclear reactors, thereof boilers, machinery and mechanical appliances 3 18,954,148,255 18,663,167 Natural or cultured pearls, precious or In Vitro Fertilisation semi-precious stones, precious metals, Questions metals clad with precious metal and Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool articles made thereof 4 17,924,341,565 201,768,337 Electrical machinery, To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to equipment and parts; the Written Answers by Earl Howe on 3 December includes sound and 2013 (WA 36) and 3 December 2014 (HL3158), television recorders which were the relevant experts or international and reproducers authorities with whom the Chief Medical Officer 5 7,175,773,811 5,102,959 Aircraft, spacecraft and parts thereof “had a lot of discussions”; which international 6 6,427,348,150 379,211,375 Articles of apparel authorities agreed with the Chief Medical Officer’s and clothing own assessment that no-one “has come up with a accessories, knitted better definition”; how the new definition is being or crocheted accordingly incorporated into the syllabus for biology 7 6,396,399,234 208,449,001 Vehicles, other than students; and what are their views on the ontological railwayortramway propriety of the proposed redefinition of genetic rolling stock and parts and accessories modification on the basis that it “is not that that is thereof what it is”. [HL3422] 8 5,676,252,444 397,736,063 Articles of apparel and clothing accessories not The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department knitted or crocheted of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): As stated in my Written 9 5,415,414,998 42,138,787 Optical, photographic, Answer of 3 December 2014 (Official Report, Column cinematographic, WA270), the development of a working definition for measuring, checking, genetic modification in humans was undertaken in precision, medical or order to bring clarity to the discussion around surgical instruments and apparatus; parts mitochondrial donation and is solely intended to be and accessories used in this context. There is no universally agreed thereof definition of genetic modification in humans and the 10 4,450,948,324 nil Pharmaceutical working definition devised for the debate on mitochondrial products donation did not aim to establish one. The Chief 11 3,615,260,808 139,622,724 Plastics and articles Medical Officer was clear in her evidence to the House thereof of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee 12 3,446,588,010 34,153,904 Furniture, bedding, on 22 October 2014 that the definition’s purpose is to mattresses, mattress supports, cushions clarify discussion of this issue. and similar stuffed With regard to the discussions that took place in furnishings; lamps and light fittings; developing the working definition, in developing its illuminated signs and position the Department, in consultation with the nameplates; Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, also prefabricated had discussions with the Wellcome Trust and the buildings Nuffield Council on Bioethics. WA 157 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 158

Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool This Answer included the following attachment: CMGS Practice Guidelines (CMGS Practice Guidelines To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to for the Molecular Diagnosis of Mitochondrial the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 15 December Diseases.pdf) (HL3301), how many foetal reductions performed following in vitro fertilisation over the past decade Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool were performed between (1) weeks 0–5, (2) weeks To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to 6–13, and (3) weeks 14–16. [HL3753] the Written Answers by Earl Howe on 30 October 2013 (WA 259), 26 November 2013 (WA 263), 3 December 2013 (WA36), 3 December 2014 (HL3158) Earl Howe: The Human Fertilisation and Embryology and 16 December 2014 (HL3461), whether they Authority has advised that in the decade preceding consider there to be any barriers to a universally 31 December 2012, the Authority’s register records the agreed definition of genetic modification, in the following incidences of foetal reductions performed light of the Chief Medical Officer’s views on the following in vitro fertilisation: matter; if so, what are the “rather mixed and odd ways” in which others have used terms like “genetic Foetal reduction in Foetal reduction in Foetal reduction in weeks 0-5 weeks 6-13 weeks 14-16 modification,” “GM” and “germline”; and how the statements by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology 0 156 27 Authority and the Nuffield Council on Bioethics are consistent with their view that “this process is Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool not genetic modification”. [HL3839] To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 15 December Earl Howe: The Human Fertilisation and Embryology (HL3302), how exhaustively the POLG gene at Authority refers to the proposed mitochondrial donation chromosomal locus 15q25 has been sequenced in techniques as “germ-line modification”and the Nuffield all individuals known to be affected by the Council on Bioethics as “germ line gene therapy”. As I mitochondrial diseases listed in Annex D of the stated in my Written Answer of 16 December 2014 mitochondrial donation consultation document in (HL3461), we agree with this and believe it to be order to establish the evidence base described in consistent with our view that the proposed mitochondrial that answer; and whether the Human Fertilisation donation techniques are not genetic modification. and Embryology Authority would routinely require sequencing of the POLG gene in order to ensure that pronuclear transfer or spindle-chromosomal Income Tax transfer should only be used for patients who have Question an inherited mitochondrial DNA mutation and not where faulty mitochondria may have arisen from a Asked by Lord Christopher nuclear gene mutation. [HL3754] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the increases in income tax personal allowance have had an impact on the data on income levels available Earl Howe: We are advised by the Wellcome Trust to them; and if so, what action they intend to take that diagnosis of mitochondrial DNA disease is performed as a result. [HL3593] within the National Health Service Highly Specialised Service diagnostic laboratory using well established diagnostic algorithms and Practice Guidelines for the The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Molecular Diagnosis of Mitochondrial Diseases published Deighton) (Con): Increases to the amount of income by the Clinical Molecular Genetics Society at: tax personal allowance do not affect the amount of income data available to HM Revenue and Customs. http://www.acgs.uk.com/media/774654/ mito_2008.pdf Mitochondrial defects that arise due to nuclear India gene mutations, such as DNA polymerase gamma, Questions routinely give rise to multiple different mutations of mitochondrial DNA within patient tissues or depletion Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool of mitochondrial DNA. This is apparent upon genetic testing and would then lead to analysis of the DNA To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment polymerase gamma gene to identify the nuclear gene they have made of the recent attacks on religious defect. minorities in India, notably Christians; and when they next intend to raise this issue with the government The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority of India. [HL3827] has advised that it will design the regulatory process following the passage of any regulations to allow mitochondrial donation. Should Parliament pass the The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth mitochondrial donation regulations, the technique could Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): India’s only be licensed for the avoidance of diseases caused Constitution guarantees freedom of conscience and by inherited mutations in mitochondrial DNA, not the right to freely profess, practice and propagate nuclear DNA. religion. The Indian government has a range of policies WA 159 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 160 and programmes to support religious minorities. However, were also discussed at the EU-India human rights incidents of discrimination against minority communities dialogue on 27 November 2013. We will continue to in India do still occur. maintain a dialogue with the new Indian government Our High Commissioner in New Delhi met India’s about minority rights issues. new Minister of Minority Affairs, Dr Najma Heptulla, We also support religious and other minorities in on 16 June to discuss a range of minority issues. Our India through the Department for International High Commission in New Delhi discusses minority Development’s programme in India which helps to issues, including religious tolerance of Christians, with promote equal treatment and access to services for the the Indian National Commission for Minorities and most disadvantaged communities. with other relevant State level authorities. Minority rights were also discussed at the EU-India human rights dialogue on 27 November 2013. We will continue Influenza: Vaccination to maintain a dialogue with the new Indian government Question about minority rights issues. Asked by Baroness Hollins We also support religious and other minorities in India through the Department for International To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Development’s programme in India which helps to they have made of the impact of Public Health promote equal treatment and access to services for the England’s recommendation that children and adults most disadvantaged communities. with a learning disability should routinely be offered influenza vaccination on uptake among people with Asked by Baroness Berridge a learning disability. [HL3666] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the reports of an attack on 13 December The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department by Hindu radicals on a Christian pastor and his of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The measures that have church members singing Christmas carols in been introduced to promote the offer of influenza Hyderabad. [HL3847] vaccination to people with a learning disability should result in increased uptake among this group. It is not possible accurately to predict or quantify the scale of Baroness Anelay of St Johns: India’s Constitution the change. guarantees freedom of conscience and the right to freely profess, practice and propagate religion. The Indian government has a range of policies and Internment: Northern Ireland programmes to support religious minorities. However, Questions incidents of discrimination against minority communities in India do still occur. We are aware of the recent Asked by Lord Eames attack on a pastor in Hyderabad. The Chief Minister To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their of Telangana Sri K Chandrashekar Rao made clear assessment of allegations that information on alleged publicly that such attacks would not be tolerated. torture by United Kingdom forces in Northern The British High Commissioner Sir James Bevan Ireland was withheld from the European Court of met India’s new Minister of Minority Affairs, Dr Najma Human Rights by the United Kingdom Government Heptulla, on 16 June to discuss a range of minority in 1971. [HL3459] issues. Our High Commission in New Delhi discusses minority issues, including religious tolerance of Christians, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry with the Indian National Commission for Minorities of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): The request and with other relevant State level authorities. Minority will now be considered by the Court in line with the rights were also discussed at the EU-India human arrangements laid down in its rules of procedure. In rights dialogue on 27 November 2013. We will continue accordance with those rules, if it does not decide to to maintain a dialogue with the new Indian government refuse the request the Court will refer it to the United about minority rights issues. Kingdom and invite written comments within a time-limit Asked by Baroness Berridge set by the Court. Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to, or discussions To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their they have had with, the government of India regarding assessment of the request made to the European freedom of religion or belief in that country since Court on Human Rights by the government of the the election of Prime Minister Modi. [HL3848] Republic of Ireland for a review of the 1978 judgment in the case Ireland v the United Kingdom. [HL3543] Baroness Anelay of St Johns: The British High Commissioner Sir James Bevan met India’s new Minister Lord Astor of Hever: The request will now be of Minority Affairs, Dr Najma Heptulla, on 16 June considered by the Court in line with the arrangements to discuss a range of minority issues. Our High laid down in its rules of procedure. In accordance with Commission in New Delhi discusses minority issues, those rules, if it does not decide to refuse the request including religious tolerance of Christians, with the the Court will refer it to the United Kingdom and Indian National Commission for Minorities and with invite written comments within a time-limit set by the other relevant State level authorities. Minority rights Court. WA 161 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 162

Israel of Israel, with regards to the implementation of those obligations, and raise our serious concerns regarding Question such issues as demolitions of Palestinian property, as Asked by Baroness Tonge well as permitting and facilitating the delivery of humanitarian aid. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the appointment of General Eisenkot as Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Force; and what discussions they have had with the Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft Government of Israel concerning his Dahiyya Doctrine. [HL3624] Questions Asked by Lord West of Spithead Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): We are aware of Major General Eisenkot’s nomination to succeed To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the Lieutenant General Gantz as the Chief of Staff for harmony rules for RAF personnel serving in the the Israel Defence Forces (IDF). As he is the current new F35B squadrons will be brought into line with Deputy Chief of Staff, we would therefore expect a their Royal Navy equivalents. [HL3590] degree of continuity. While we have not had any discussions with the IDF over the “Dahiyya” Doctrine, we would have expectations of Israeli military conduct The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry being in full compliance with international law and of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): RAF personnel therefore meeting the tests of military necessity, distinction serving in the new F35B squadrons will follow RAF and proportionality. harmony guidelines. They will not be brought into line with their Navy equivalents. Asked by Baroness Tonge Asked by Lord West of Spithead To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the Government To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the of Israel concerning (1) the arrest of fishermen on primary factor in the choice of F35B variant as 6 December, (2) reported targeting of fishing boats the United Kingdom’s new attack aircraft was the with machine gun fire, and (3) deaths and wounding requirement for the aircraft to be operated from the of fishermen since 26 August. [HL3625] Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers. [HL3591]

Lord Wallace of Saltaire: We have not made any representations to the Israeli authorities over the issues Lord Astor of Hever: The F35B meets the UK’s concerning fishermen in Gaza. However, our officials Combat Air capability requirements, contributing a in Tel Aviv are looking into the situation faced by 5th Generation capability alongside the Typhoon. The Gazan fishermen and will consider whether to take F35B provides flexibility to be equally capable of any action on this issue. operating from bases ashore or from the Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers as the operational scenario dictates. Asked by Baroness Tonge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of Israel’s proposed “nation-state” bill. [HL3731] Jordan Question The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Asked by Lord Mendelsohn Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): While we have not made an assessment on this issue, we have To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they raised with the Israeli authorities the importance of have any additional plans to provide further support maintaining equal rights for all of Israel’s citizens. to the government of Jordan to assist with displaced Asked by Baroness Tonge Syrian refugees. [HL3557] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Israel concerning reports of the Israeli Civil for International Development (Baroness Northover) Administration’s confiscation of wet weather tarpaulin (LD): By the end of March 2015, the UK will have sheets on 27 November from the Samen Bedouin provided almost £220 million of assistance to Jordan Community in East Jerusalem. [HL3732] since the start of the Syria crisis. In 2014/15, UKAid spending in Jordan is forecast to be around £66 million. Baroness Anelay of St Johns: While we have not Since the onset of the Syria crisis the UK has committed raised this specific issue with the Israeli authorities, £700 million for humanitarian activities in Syria and the Government believes that Israel has legal obligations neighbouring states. This includes £82 million to date as an Occupying Power with respect to the Occupied in support of UNICEF’s ‘No Lost Generation’ initiative, Palestinian Territories, under applicable international which provides protection, trauma care and education law. We have a regular dialogue with the Government for children affected by the crisis. WA 163 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 164

Kenya NHS England is working in partnership with the Improving Health and Lives team in Public Health Question England to deliver workshops for stakeholders, and to Asked by Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead improve information to people with learning disabilities and their families and carers to support them to access To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their the services. assessment of the evidence provided by Human Rights Watch in respect of the availability of justice NHS England’s work in 2014-15 has focused on for those who experienced mass killings and rape analysing the variation in uptake at the level of its associated with the 2007 presidential election in Area Teams, including engaging with a range of Kenya. [HL3727] stakeholders to assess the barriers and obstacles to improving uptake. This early engagement and analysis has highlighted the importance that local clinical The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth leadership has had in driving up uptake in areas where Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): Pursuing there is higher uptake. transitional justice is important for long-term peace and stability in Kenya. We acknowledge the steps taken by the Government of Kenya to address the needs of some victims of post-election violence. The UK encourages greater efforts by the Government of Learning Disability: Nurses Kenya to promote reconciliation and make further substantial progress on this agenda. It is therefore Question essential that the needs of the victims continue to be placed at the centre of efforts to deliver justice. Asked by Baroness Hollins To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps Learning Disability and Autism they are taking to ensure that every acute hospital employs a learning disability liaison nurse. [HL3662] Question Asked by Baroness Hollins To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department they have made in working with Health Education of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Equality Act 2010 England, Skills for Health and partners to develop exists to protect people with disabilities from a national workforce academy to improve the discrimination. All National Health Service providers knowledge and skills of health and social care including acute hospitals have a duty to promote professionals working with people with a learning disability equality. disability or autism whose behaviour challenges. The requirement for acute hospitals to make ‘reasonable [HL3667] adjustments’ for people with learning disabilities is normally included in commissioner contracts and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department compliance measured as part of the contract management of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Sir Stephen Bubb’s report, role/process. Trusts are held to account through this Winterbourne View – Time for Change, which was mechanism. published in November recommended that a national Learning Disability Liaison Nurses are proven to workforce academy should be established. A cross-system improve the quality of services for people with learning response to the report is expected early in the new year disabilities in acute hospitals, and are an important and will be coordinated by NHS England. way of demonstrating compliance with the requirement. The Care Quality Commission’s (CQC) approach Learning Disability: Health Services to inspecting trusts ensures that the trust has made appropriate adjustments to meet the needs of service Question users, as outlined in the Key Line Of Enquiry for Asked by Baroness Hollins ‘Responsive’ in the appendix to the acute hospital handbook, available on the CQC’s website. Appropriate To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps adjustments specifically include provision for the care they are taking to address variations in uptake and of patients with learning disabilities. quality of annual health checks for people with a The Government’s Mandate to NHS England sets learning disability. [HL3665] out our ambitions for the health service, which include an objective that NHS England ensures clinical The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department commissioning groups work with local authorities to of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): General Practitioners ensure that vulnerable people, particularly those with are supported to deliver annual health checks for learning disabilities and autism, receive safe, appropriate, people with learning disabilities from the age of 14 high quality care. NHS England sets out how it will through the Designated Enhanced Service payment achieve the objectives in the Mandate in its 2014-15 – scheme. The promotion of and increased access to 2016-17 business plan. The Government will hold annual health checks is a priority for NHS England. NHS England to account for its achievement. WA 165 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 166

Leasehold Following representations from the peer-to-peer sector, the Government announced in November 2012 its Question intention to bring peer-to-peer lending within the Asked by Baroness Gardner of Parkes regulatory scope of the Financial Conduct Authority from April 2014. Proportionate regulation will allow To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the the sector to continue to grow. division of responsibilities in leasehold property The Government has not made an assessment of between (1) lead lessees, (2) landlords, and (3) long-term the size of the peer-to-peer consumer and business residents who are either tenants or leaseholders. finance markets. [HL3863] Asked by Lord Mendelsohn The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they for Communities and Local Government (Lord Ahmad have had any discussions with the Bank of England of Wimbledon) (Con): The responsibilities of each and the Financial Conduct Authority about whether party with a legal and/or financial interest in a leasehold to allow the securitisation of peer-to-peer consumer property will be determined by the terms of the lease. or business loans. [HL3415] This is the contractual agreement between the parties, To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they, and which may vary depending on the property concerned the Bank of England or the Financial Conduct and other requirements. Authority have held any discussions with the credit rating agencies about the securitisation of peer-to-peer consumer or business loans. [HL3416] Libya To ask Her Majesty’s Government what risks Question they consider need to be prepared for in the expansion Asked by Baroness Stern of the peer-to-peer lending market; and whether the potential securitisation of such lending would To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they require additional regulation. [HL3419] will propose a resolution of the United Nations Asked by Lord Mendelsohn Security Council following the referral to that body by the International Criminal Court of the finding To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the of non-compliance by the government of Libya in Financial Conduct Authority and the Bank of England respect of failure to surrender Saif al-Islam Gaddafi are looking at modelling what level of institutional to the Court and failure to return seized documents investment in peer-to-peer (P2P) collaterised loan to the defence. [HL3734] obligations, or at what level funds established to buy P2P collaterised loans, would present a systemic risk to the financial system; and if not, whether The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth they have done so or plan to. [HL3420] Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): On 10 December the International Criminal Court’s (ICC) Pre-Trial Chamber dealing with Saif Qadhafi’s case The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord issued a decision, which found that Libya had failed to Deighton) (Con): Her Majesty’s Government have not comply with the Court’s request to surrender Qadhafi. had any discussions with the Bank of England, the It decided to refer Libya’s non-compliance to the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) or credit rating United Nations Security Council. The United Kingdom agencies about the securitisation of peer-to-peer loans. fully supports the ICC’s decision and urges Libya to However, since April 2014, the peer-to-peer lending surrender Qadhafi to the Court. We will work within sector has been supervised and regulated by the FCA. the Security Council for an effective response to the The FCA monitors risks in any regulated sector on an ICC. ongoing basis.

Loans Loans: Republic of Ireland Questions Questions Asked by Lord Laird Asked by Lord Mendelsohn To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are the To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their arrangements for the government of the Republic estimate of the size of peer-to-peer consumer and of Ireland to repay loans provided during the recent business finance. [HL3417] banking crisis. [HL3572] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much they have to regulate the peer-to-peer lending the Republic of Ireland owes the United Kingdom market. [HL3418] as a result of loans made during the recent banking crisis. [HL3573] The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Toask Her Majesty’s Government, in the discussions Deighton) (Con): Peer-to-peer lending is an innovative which preceded the loan of funds to the Republic of new form of finance and the Government is keen to Ireland as a result of the recent banking crisis, what see this sector continue to grow and evolve. restrictions were placed on their use. [HL3574] WA 167 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 168

The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord of the cost implications for marine industries. A third Deighton) (Con): The UK provided a bilateral loan to tranche of MCZs is expected to follow. Natural England Ireland as part of an international assistance package, has recently consulted on proposals for two Special designed to stabilise the Irish economy and public Protection Areas (SPAs) in English inshore waters in finances. The UK bilateral loan was not limited to accordance with the EU Wildbirds Directive. Proposals specific purposes but contributed to Ireland’s general for further SPAs in the waters for which the UK government financing. Government is responsible will be published in due In accordance with the Loans to Ireland Act 2010, course. The Joint Nature Conservation Committee is HM Treasury reports to Parliament every six months analysing evidence to determine whether there are any including information on principal and interest payments. further potential Special Areas of Conservation for I refer the noble Lord to the report laid on 13 October harbour porpoise in accordance with the criteria in 2014 which is also available online, alongside all previous the EU Habitats Directive, and will report in due reports submitted by HM Treasury[1]. course. [1] These reports are available in the Library of the House and All regulatory authorities are obliged to exercise can be accessed on the following site: https://www.gov.uk/ their functions, including licensing and development government/collections/bilateral-loan-to-ireland consents, in a manner consistent with their legal obligations to protect MPAs in the relevant national legislation. Malaysia The main regulatory authorities are the Department for Energy and Climate Change, with respect to significant Question energy projects and the Marine Management Organisation Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool (MMO) for most other marine licencing consents. Inshore fisheries are managed by the relevant Inshore To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Fisheries and Conservation Authority and the MMO. they have made of reports of the ill-treatment and Fisheries management for offshore sites will be achieved death of North Korean workers at a mine in Sarawak; through EU Regulation under the Common Fisheries and whether they have raised those reports with the Policy. government of Malaysia. [HL3707] The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Mass Media: Competition Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): We are Question aware of reports of fatalities at a mine in Sarawak and wider concerns about labour rights in Malaysia, in Asked by Lord Storey particular for foreign workers. Our High Commission To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures in Kuala Lumpur is in close touch with civil society they are taking to ensure that there is a diverse and regularly hears their concerns. range of independent news media voices across all platforms. [HL3601] Marine Protected Areas Question Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con): The Government consulted on the scope of a measurement framework Asked by Lord Hunt of Chesterton for media plurality in July 2013. We published our To ask Her Majesty’s Government which Marine response to that consultation in August 2014; our Protected Areas will be established around the coast response also addressed the recommendations of the of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland Lords’ Communications Committee report into plurality. during each year from 2015 to 2020; what restrictions In our response, we set out the scope of a measurement on fishing, transport, and extraction of oil, gas and framework for media plurality and subsequently minerals will be required for each area; and which commissioned Ofcom to develop this, informed by a organisations will be responsible for regulating those suitable set of indicators. The Government has been areas and reporting on those developments.[HL3696] clear that it will not consider changing the existing regulatory framework for media plurality until the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department measurement framework and a baseline assessment for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord De have been delivered. I understand that Ofcom plans to Mauley) (Con): Each Administration in the UK has consult on their proposals for a measurement framework responsibility for designating Marine Protected Areas early in the New Yearand hopes to publish its conclusions (MPAs) in its inshore waters. Offshore waters adjacent in summer 2015. to England, Wales and Northern Ireland are the responsibility of the UK Government. The Scottish Government is responsible for the designation of MPAs Medicine: Postgraduate Education for offshore waters adjacent to Scotland. Responsibility Questions for reporting on any plans for future Marine Protected Areas within their areas rests with the appropriate Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough administration in the UK. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many (1) The UK Government aims to consult on a second Masters students, and (2) PhD students were supported tranche of Marine Conservation Zones (MCZs) early via the Department for Business, Innovation and next year. This will include details of all the proposed Skills in nursing or allied care disciplines in each of sites and an Impact Assessment containing estimates the last three years. [HL3521] WA 169 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 170

Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The Department Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough supports postgraduate study in nursing and allied care disciplines through the Higher Education Funding To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many (1) Council for England (HEFCE), except where courses Masters students, and (2) PhD students were supported are sponsored directly by National Health Service via the Department of Health in nursing or allied (NHS) bodies. care disciplines in each of the last three years. HEFCE funding is provided via two different routes: [HL3522] i) Taught Programmes, which are typically Masters The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department qualifications such as Masters of Arts or Masters of of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The National Institute Sciences, but also include courses such as postgraduate for Health Research (NIHR) and Health Education diplomas; England (HEE) fund higher education institutions ii) Research Programmes, which are typically (HEIs) to provide Masters in Clinical Research places Doctorates in Philosophy (PhDs), but can include to nurses, midwives, and allied health professionals some Masters programmes such as Masters of Philosophy (AHPs) who work in the National Health Service. or Masters of Research courses. Research programmes HEIs have reported 125 Masters studentships in the are funded through ‘Quality-Related (QR) Research 2011-12 academic year (all HEIs) and 152 in 2012-13 Degree Programme (RDP) supervision funding’. (11 out of 12 HEIs). Full data for 2012-13 is expected Information on the number of full-time equivalents shortly. Data for 2013-14 is expected by early 2015. funded on each of these programmes is provided in NIHR and NIHR/HEE doctoral fellowships for the tables. nurses, midwives and AHPs totalled nine awarded in Funding for Postgraduate Taught Programmes 2012, 32 in 2013 and 15 in 2014.

Students funded by HEFCE on Taught Programmes in nursing and subjects allied to medicine1 Mental Health Services 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 Questions

Taught Masters 2,685 3,170 2,910 Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Programmes2 To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans Other Taught Post- 1,045 1,160 1,360 Graduate Programmes they have to determine how the legal requirement in relation to parity of esteem is to be followed by Figures are rounded to the nearest 5 students. NHS England. [HL3514] 1. Figures are based on the ‘Subjects allied to medicine’ principal subject area, defined by the Joint Academic Coding System, and To ask Her Majesty’s Government what policies exclude those studying ‘Anatomy, Physiology and Pathology’ and have been implemented by NHS England to implement ‘Pharmacology, Toxicology and Pharmacy’. the legal requirement in relation to parity of 2. Taught Masters Programmes are defined by HESA course esteem. [HL3515] aims E00, M00, M01, M02, M10, M11, M16 and M50. The full definitions for these course aims are published at To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they www.hesa.ac.uk intend to monitor the performance of NHS England 3. Source of data: HESA/ILR data for the period 2010-11 to in ensuring that parity of esteem is fully implemented 2012-13. in the National Health Service. [HL3516]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Funding for Postgraduate Research Programmes of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Government holds the National Health Service to account for achieving Students counting towards HEFCE’s Quality Related Research Degree Programme supervision funding1, 2 parity of esteem by setting objectives in the NHS 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 England Mandate and monitoring their delivery through the NHS Outcomes Framework. If NHS England is Nursing and Midwifery 355 375 375 failing to deliver against its objectives, Ministers can Allied Health Professions 955 995 1,000 ask NHS England to report on what action it has and Studies taken, or to set out a plan for improvement. Total 1,310 1,365 1,370 The NHS Mandate 2015-16 makes clear that by Figures are rounded to the nearest 5 students. March 2016 we expect NHS England to have made 1 Eligible UK- and EU-domiciled postgraduate research further measurable progress towards achieving true students are counted in this allocation. parity of esteem where everyone who needs it has 2 Research Students include both those studying towards PhDs timely access to evidenced based services that are and those studying towards a research masters (such as an MRes better integrated with physical health services. or MPhil). In January 2014 the Government set out its priorities 3 Nursing and allied care studies have been defined in this table for mental health in Closing the Gap that sets out the on the basis of Units of Assessment used in the 2008 Research Assessment Exercise. steps that the government, NHS England and their 4 FTE Figures on QR RDP supervision funding are based on partners will take to make progress towards parity of Post-Graduate Research Data reported to HESA for the years esteem for mental health. This is complemented by the shown. Department and NHS England’s new five-year plan 5 Funding is confined to those Higher Education Provider for mental health, Achieving Better Access to Mental Departments that attained a rating of at least a 2* in the 2008 Health Services by 2020 that was published in October RAE. 2014. WA 171 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 172

To make progress towards delivering parity of esteem additional learning disability, do not have to wait the Department and NHS England have: for longer than 18 weeks to receive appropriate - worked together to ensure that there are consistent treatment. [HL3663] messages to commissioners and providers about the importance of delivering parity of esteem for mental Earl Howe: Mental health and well-being is a priority health service users; for this Government. We have legislated for parity of - extended the legal rights to choice in mental esteem between mental and physical health and included health so people with mental health problems will it in our Mandate to NHS England. This makes it have the same choice for their care as they do for clear that “everyone who needs it should have timely their physical health; access to evidence-based services”. This will involve - invested £400 million in Improving Access to extending and ensuring more open access to programmes. Psychological Therapy for adults and £54m over In our new five-year plan for mental health, Achieving the four year period from 2011-2015 in the children Better Access to Mental Health Services by 2020,we and young people’s IAPT programme to transform identified £40 million additional spending this year child and adolescent mental health services; and freed up a further £80 million for 2015-16. This - set two new waiting time targets to make sure will, for the first time ever, enable the setting of access that, by 2016, at least 50% of young people and waiting time standards in mental health services, referred for early intervention in psychosis services including for people with mental health problems and will start treatment within two weeks and learning disabilities. The standards will include: treatment within six weeks for 75% of people - treatment within six weeks for 75% of people referred to the Improving Access to Psychological referred to the Improving Access to Psychological Therapies programme, with 95% of people being Therapies programme, with 95% of people being treated within 18 weeks; treated within 18 weeks; - identified £40 million additional spending this - treatment within two weeks for more than 50% of year and freed up a further £80 million for 2015-16, people experiencing a first episode of psychosis; to support the implementation of the new waiting and time standards; and - £30 million targeted investment will help people - invested £2 million in nine street triage pilots in crisis to access effective support in accident and where police and mental health professionals work emergency. together to support people in mental health crisis access safe, appropriate care and we have Starting this year, the Department and NHS England committed £25 million in 2014-15 to commission will work together with mental health system partners 10 trial sites delivering on a new standard service to develop detailed proposals for the introduction of specification for liaison and diversion services in further access and waiting time standards from 2016 England. onwards. Monitor and NHS England are responsible for setting the national tariff arrangements and are working together to develop a national payment system for Mental Illness: Police Custody mental health which promotes improving outcomes Question and recovery. Asked by Baroness Hollins We will also be investing £30 million a year over the next five years in England to improve services for To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress young people with mental health problems. This will has been made to eliminate the use of police cells as place particular emphasis on eating disorders. a place of safety for children and adults experiencing Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath a mental health crisis. [HL3664] Toask Her Majesty’s Government what mechanisms they have set up to consider complaints from patients The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department who consider that parity of esteem has not been of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Government is taking established in relation to their own treatment. action to prevent the inappropriate use of police cells [HL3517] as a place of safety under the Mental Health Act 1983. The Government has an ambition to reduce this Earl Howe: Where a patient is dissatisfied with the practice by 50% this year – and to see how police and service provided by the National Health Service, it is health colleagues can work together so that it does not right that they should make a complaint. The appropriate happen at all to children and young people. mechanism for such a complaint is the Local Authority Last year the number of people taken to police cells Social Services and National Health Service Complaints as places of safety fell significantly, from 8,667 in (England) Regulations 2009. This would include a 2011-12 to 6,028 in 2013-14. The police have told us complaint about parity of esteem. that between the six months of April and September Asked by Baroness Hollins this year there have been 2,282 such cases – which, if maintained over the rest of the year, would result in a To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps further 24% decrease in use of cells over last year. At they are taking to ensure that people experiencing the same time the use of health-based places of safety mental health problems, including those with an increased by 3,019 uses between 2012-13 and 2013-14. WA 173 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 174

This puts us well on track to achieve our aim of Middle East reducing the 2011-12 figure of 8,667 uses of police cells by half in 2014-15. Questions There was a small reduction of 10% in the numbers Asked by Lord Hylton of children who were taken to a police cell as a place To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they of safety – for 2013-14 this happened in 236 cases, and assess the effectiveness of the various United Nations for 2012-13 this happened in 263 cases. agencies trying to meet the urgent needs of refugees In February, we published a Crisis Care Concordat and displaced people in northern Iraq and around to make sure people in crisis get the help they need. All the frontiers of Syria; and in particular whether localities are working together to complete local crisis they consider that enough authority is locally declarations agreed by all the local relevant agencies, devolved. [HL3598] by the end of the year. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department The concordat states a clear expectation that “police for International Development (Baroness Northover) custody is never used as a place of safety” for under-18s, (LD): DFID closely monitors the effectiveness of UN except in very exceptional circumstances where a police agencies in meeting the urgent needs of displaced officer makes the decision that immediate safety of a people in Northern Iraq and around the frontiers of child or young person requires it. Syria, including through our field team. The UK is In conjunction with the Home Office, the Department supporting the UN to scale up operations – including of Health has conducted a review of Section 135 and through funding key staff positions in agency field Section 136 of the Mental Health Act 1983. This was offices – to strengthen the UN’s presence at a local published on 18 December 2014. level. The new Children and YoungPeople’s Mental Health Asked by Baroness Tonge and Well-Being Taskforce will also be looking at the To ask Her Majesty’s Government what priority issue of under 18s being detained in police custody as they are giving to negotiations for a ceasefire in part of its Access and Prevention work. Gaza. [HL3626]

Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): There remains an Mesothelioma urgent need for negotiations to agree a durable ceasefire Question agreement, which tackles the underlying problems of the conflict in Gaza. We were disappointed that it was Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool not possible for the Cairo negotiations to resume as planned on 27 October, due to the terrorist attack in To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Sinai. We are urging the parties to ensure that the reply by Lord Faulks on 9 December (HL Deb, these resume quickly. col 1710), what evidence they have for the assertion that a lack of good research proposals is deterring Asked by Lord Ahmed research into mesothelioma and that there are no To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action problems concerning availability of funding. they plan to take regarding Israel’s occupation of [HL3669] the Occupied Palestinian Territories. [HL3682]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The Middle East Peace of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Medical Research Process continues to be one of the Foreign and Council (MRC) and the National Institute for Health Commonwealth Office’s principal foreign policy priorities. Research (NIHR) have been receiving high quality Only a negotiated two-state solution will resolve the research applications in mesothelioma. The Government Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all and end is implementing a package of measures to stimulate an the occupation. The UK stands ready to do all it can increase in the volume of applications and funded to support this goal. research in mesothelioma. Asked by Lord Ahmed In the last five financial years (2009-10 to 2013-14) To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action the MRC has received 10 applications for grants or they plan to take to protect the viability of the two fellowships that relate to research on mesothelioma. state solution, in the light of Israel’s plans on Of these 10 applications four were successful resulting settlement expansions. [HL3683] in a success rate of 40%. This is higher than the overall success rate for applications to the MRC which during Lord Wallace of Saltaire: Discussions are underway the same period has been between 20% and 25%. in Brussels on what further measures the EU could In the last five financial years, 11 applications take to discourage further settlement expansion. As relating to mesothelioma have been submitted to the Foreign Affairs Council conclusions of 17 November research programmes managed by the NIHR. Of these made clear, the UK and other EU Member States are 11 applications four were successful resulting in a deeply concerned by recent developments, are closely success rate of 36%. Success rates for NIHR-managed monitoring the situation and its broader implications, programmes are available on the NIHR website and and remain ready to take further action in order to are typically lower than 36%. protect the viability of the two state solution. WA 175 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 176

Asked by Baroness Deech The Government’s policy on Hamas has not changed and is clear: Hamas must renounce violence, recognise To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their Israel and accept previously signed agreements. We estimate of the number of civilian casualties caused believe that only a negotiated two-state solution will by air strikes against ISIS by Western forces. resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict once and for all [HL3721] and end the occupation.

Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The coalition, which includes Military Aircraft a number of regional partners, as well as “western” nations, takes every possible precaution to avoid civilian Questions casualties, unlike the ISIL terrorists who show no Asked by Lord Chidgey respect for human rights or human life within the territory they control. Coalition targets are selected To ask Her Majesty’s Government how long with the utmost care, the times of attack are carefully they estimate it will take to procure an armed chosen and precision guided weapons are used. We are long-range anti-submarine warfare and maritime not aware of UK strikes causing civilian casualties. surveillance capability, based on a manned aircraft, after the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review Asked by Baroness Deech has been completed. [HL3749] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the treatment of homosexuals in The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry Middle East countries, in particular in (1) Israel, (2) of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): The time it the Palestinian Territories, and (3) Gaza. [HL3723] would take to acquire such an aircraft would depend on the platform selected, the availability of funding, and commercial arrangements. It is therefore not possible The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth to provide a specific timeline. Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): The Government’s clear message is that human rights are Asked by Lord Chidgey universal and should apply equally to all people. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the We believe that the international community must Air ISTAR Optimisation Study included any evidence- address all forms of discrimination, including on the based analysis of any capability gap left by the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity, and we scrapping of the Nimrod replacement programme. must also promote respect for diversity.Work in combating [HL3751] violence and discrimination against LGBT people forms an important part of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s wider international human rights work. Lord Astor of Hever: Yes. The evidence gathered by the study will permit informed decisions to be made The British Embassy in Tel Aviv has marched in the during the next Strategic Defence and Security Review. Gay Pride parades in Tel Aviv over recent years. At this year’s march, Her Majesty’s Ambassador to Israel Asked by Lord Chidgey spoke at the large public gathering and referred to Israel becoming a more tolerant society over the past To ask Her Majesty’s Government what analysis decade. has been conducted to establish the potential systems and cost benefits of including a long-range maritime We are deeply concerned about the treatment of the surveillance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft in LGBT community in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, the United Kingdom strategic deterrent system or particularly in Gaza where they are subject to widespread systems. [HL3802] social discrimination for cultural and religious reasons. Homosexuality remains a taboo subject in the OPTs. In some places, such as Ramallah, these taboos are Lord Astor of Hever: We have performed a number relaxed, but in more conservative areas the situation is of assessments of the potential impact that a maritime very challenging. There are no laws protecting LGBT patrol aircraft might have on the security of the strategic people, however, we are not aware of any recent legal deterrent system. The potential contribution of such cases being prosecuted against LGBT people. aircraft to the maintenance of continuous at-sea deterrence is well understood. Asked by Lord Turnberg I am withholding further information as its disclosure To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action would or would likely prejudice national security. they plan to take to protect the viability of the Asked by Lord Chidgey two-state solution, in the light of the statement by the Hamas leadership on 14 December that they To ask Her Majesty’s Government what platforms are intent on the destruction of Israel. [HL3813] they consider could fill any anti-submarine warfare manned aircraft gap at an acceptable level of technical risk within the timeframe available after the 2015 Baroness Anelay of St Johns: We condemn the Strategic Defence and Security Review; and what statement by senior Hamas leader, Khalil al-Hayya, assessment they have made of how long it would on 14 December claiming that “the illusion of Israel take to integrate United Kingdom complex weapons will be removed” by Hamas’ military wing. into such platforms. [HL3750] WA 177 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 178

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the money laundering as regards risk assessment and Air ISTAR Optimisation Study included any analysis consequent enhanced due diligence for United of the comparative whole-life costs across all Defence Kingdom Politically Exposed Persons. [HL3724] Lines of Development of deploying the different solutions to any maritime surveillance and long-range anti-submarine warfare capability gap. [HL3752] The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Deighton) (Con): The Government has advocated a risk-based approach to “politically exposed persons” Lord Astor of Hever: The information requested is domestically, through negotiations on the Directive. not available, as typically such questions are addressed In the UK, this would require treating UK PEPs, at a later stage in a procurement cycle. A decision on such as UK Parliamentarians, on the basis of risk whether to acquire a new capability will not be made when undertaking customer due diligence. Enhanced until the next Strategic Defence and Security Review. due diligence would only apply if the business relationship is assessed as high risk. Minimum Wage Political agreement between the Presidency, the European Parliament and the Commission on the Question Directive was reached on 16 December. We expect Asked by Lord Christopher the Italian Presidency to provide further details shortly. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many visits were made to employers in each year from Muscular Dystrophy: Drugs 2010 to 2013 and in the first nine months of 2014 to Question check that the minimum wage was being properly paid; and what were the results of those checks in Asked by Lord Walton of Detchant each of those years. [HL3596] To ask Her Majesty’s Government why they have withdrawn approval of the drug Translarna, introduced The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord for the treatment of Duchenne muscular dystrophy, Deighton) (Con): The Government takes the enforcement despite the preliminary results achieved in some of National Minimum Wage very seriously and has patients in trials in Newcastle upon Tyne. [HL3639] increased the financial penalty percentage from 50% to 100% of the unpaid wages owed to workers, and the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department maximum penalty from £5,000 to £20,000. These new of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Government has not limits are now in force where arrears are identified in withdrawn any approvals for Translarna (ataluren). pay reference periods on or after 7 March 2014. The Government will also bring in primary legislation as We understand that a draft clinical commissioning soon as possible so that the maximum £20,000 penalty policy to cover the use of Translarna for the treatment can apply to each underpaid worker. of Duchenne muscular dystrophy is currently going through NHS England’s standard development and HMRC reviews every complaint that is referred to decision making processes. it, investigating the complaint and, in addition, carrying out targeted enforcement where we identify a high risk NHS England remains committed to ensuring that of non-payment of NMW. a timely decision is made about this treatment as one of a range of investment proposals that has been put HMRC record completed investigations but these forward for the 2015-16 financial year. do not include details of the numbers of visits. Some investigations may require several visits and others NHS England continues to keep the range of services may be completed without any. HMRC completed and treatments available to patients under review as 1455 investigations last year identifying record arrears new evidence and expert guidance becomes available. of over £4.6 million. Full details for 2010 to 2014 are contained in the table below. We do not typically National Insurance Contributions disclose results mid-way through a year; this is because the results have not been internally verified. Question Asked by Baroness Hollis of Heigham Year 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Arrears £3,818,396 £3,582,685 £3,974,008 £4,645,547 additional part-time workers, by gender, currently Investigations 2,904 2,534 1,693 1,455 earning between £3,000 a year and the current Cases with 1,140 968 736 680 lower earnings limit they estimate would, by virtue arrears of their earnings, fall within the National Insurance system should the lower earnings limit be reduced to £3,000 and at what gross cost to the Exchequer; Money Laundering: EU Action how many of those additional part-time workers, Question by gender, earning between £3,000 a year and the Asked by Lord Clement-Jones lower earnings limit would currently be credited into the National Insurance system; and what, taking To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment into account existing crediting arrangements, would they have made of the progress of current negotiations be the net cost of reducing the lower earnings limit on the proposed 4th European Union Directive on to £3,000. [HL3866] WA 179 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 180

The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Deighton) (Con): The information is not available. of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): NHS England recognises that, as this report from the Association of British Neurologists (ABN) shows, there is room for improvement Naturalisation in the way neurology services are delivered in acute Questions settings. It has been working with the ABN, the Neurological Alliance, the National Clinical Director Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno for Neurological Conditions and representatives from To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many the Strategic Clinical Networks to develop a framework applicants for naturalisation demonstrated satisfactory for improving neurology standards within acute settings. knowledge of the English language because they The aim of this framework, which is in the process had obtained an academic qualification (not being of being developed, is to help patients and their carers a professional or vocational qualification), which is understand what standard of care they should expect, deemed by the United Kingdom National Recognition and to support clinicians, National Health Service Information Centre to meet the recognised standard staff, commissioners and others in the NHS and elsewhere of a Bachelor’s or Master’s degree or PhD in the that are responsible for the care of people with neurological United Kingdom. [HL3823] conditions to understand how Acute services can be better delivered. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Neurological care in Wales, Scotland and Northern Office (Lord Bates) (Con): Information on how many Ireland is matter for the devolved administrations of applicants for naturalisation demonstrated satisfactory those countries. knowledge of English by providing an academic qualification which is deemed by UK NARIC to meet the standard of a UK degree is not aggregated in national reporting systems. This information could New Towns only be obtained by a disproportionately expensive manual case by case search to collate the data. Question Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether an To ask Her Majesty’s Government how their applicant for naturalisation is exempt from satisfying plans for new Garden Cities differ in comparison to the English language requirement if the applicant the original concept. [HL3690] can prove a knowledge of Welsh or Scots Gaelic at a minimum level of Bachelor of Arts on the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department [HL3826] for Communities and Local Government (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con): There is no difference. Our locally- Lord Bates: An individual applying for naturalisation led Garden Cities prospectus, published in April, offered is required to demonstrate their knowledge of language a package of support to localities wishing to bring and life in the UK. The British Nationality (General) forward new high quality, well designed new communities (Amendment) Regulations 2013 specify how that which put the resident at the heart of planning. As requirement may be satisfied, which does not include stated in that prospectus, the Government does not demonstrating proficiency in either Welsh or Scottish wish to impose a set of detailed development principles Gaelic. The ability to speak to and understand the on localities taking forward new garden cities, but will wider community is key to integration. As English is instead work with localities to support them in developing the language spoken throughout the UK, an ability to and delivering their own vision. speak English enables interaction wherever an individual chooses to live. Therefore, a person can only meet this part of the knowledge of language and life requirement by demonstrating speaking and listening proficiency NHS England in English. Question Asked by Lord Turnberg Neurology Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the total number of staff employed by NHS England, Asked by Lord Walton of Detchant their grades and their total cost. [HL3812] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they propose to respond to the survey of Acute Neurology Services issued by the Association of British The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Neurologists in December; and what action they of Health (Earl Howe): The total number of whole plan to take to ensure that clearly defined quality time equivalent (WTE) staff employed by NHS England standards in acute neurology are achieved evenly as of November 2014 is 5605.47 and their total cost throughout the United Kingdom in the near for 2014-15 is £312,897,165. The split by grade can be future. [HL3720] seen in the following table. WA 181 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 182

Actual Apr to Nov meetings and to key groups - for example the Patient Worked WTE paid and estimate Dec 14 and Public Voice Assurance Group. Updates can be Salary Band in Nov-14 to Mar 15 £ found on the NHS England website.

Admin & Clerical 373.70 7,964,906 Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath band 2 Admin & Clerical 424.80 10,239,492 To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the band 3 NHS England specialised commissioning task force Admin & Clerical 591.76 15,162,179 will take into account the outcome of the National band 4 Institute for Health and Care Excellence review of Admin & Clerical 376.52 11,885,462 the process for evaluating highly specialised band 5 technologies. [HL3736] Admin & Clerical 229.14 8,938,141 band 6 Admin & Clerical 164.83 7,770,548 Earl Howe: The Rare Diseases Advisory Group band 7 (RDAG) makes recommendations to NHS England Band 5 263.21 8,269,730 and the devolved administrations of NHS Scotland, Band 6 306.32 10,902,343 NHS Wales and NHS Northern Ireland on issues Band 7 462.47 20,659,007 related to highly specialised services. Band 8A 566.74 31,793,887 RDAG makes recommendations to the Clinical Band 8B 588.63 39,383,822 Priorities Advisory Group about how highly specialised Band 8C 389.43 30,474,862 services should be commissioned. Band 8D 316.72 32,087,072 RDAG receives recommendations from Clinical Band 9 245.17 30,376,967 Reference Groups set up by NHS England, and in Consultant 53.35 6,267,998 addition formulates its advice by calling on sources of General 2.73 405,083 Practitioners sound evidence from outside the National Health Locum Speciality 0.00 32,893 Service, such as professional bodies and patient groups. Registrar RDAG will respond to consultations issued by the Pharmacy band 4 1.00 22,135 National Institute for Health and Care Excellence Pharmacy band 7 1.00 48,129 (NICE) Highly Specialised Technology Programme, Pharmacy band 8A 0.80 40,374 and provide advice to NHS England and the devolved Pharmacy band 8C 1.00 60,488 administrations on the most appropriate services to Trust Scale 2.94 1,077,426 deliver those highly specialised technologies that receive (Medical) a positive technology appraisal determination from Very Senior 243.21 39,034,221 NICE. Managers Grand Total 5605.47 312,897,165 NHS: Negligence Question NHS England Specialised Commissioning Asked by Task Force Lord Sharkey To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much Questions has been paid out by the National Health Service in Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath settlement of clinical negligence claims both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the NHS To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they budget in each of the last ten years for which data will publish the full terms of reference of the NHS are available. [HL3519] England specialised commissioning task force review, particularly in respect of its work relating to the funding and commissioning of treatments for rare The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department diseases. [HL3735] of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Department does not hold complete information on this centrally, as each National Health Service body is responsible for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department handling its own litigation except where they have the of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The aim of the specialised claims processed under the statutory NHS indemnity commissioning taskforce is to improve ways of working schemes, which are administered by the NHS Litigation and to ensure that specialised commissioning is undertaken Authority (NHS LA) on behalf of the Secretary of in the most efficient and effective way possible. State. However, the vast majority of litigation claims against the NHS are handled by the NHS LA, and Within the task force work programme there are costs met from its schemes. specific projects. A number of the work streams are relevant to the funding of all specialised services, of The following table shows the payments paid out by which rare diseases will be an element. the NHS LA in settlement of clinical negligence claims both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the NHS England provides regular updates on the work Department’s total departmental expenditure limit of the taskforce to external and internal stakeholders (TDEL) in each of the last ten years for which data are every 3-4 weeks. There are also briefings given at key available. WA 183 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 184

Payments made by NHS LA in respect of clinical improvement in the human rights situation in the negligence claims against the NHS: Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) in 2013, with the possible exception of a marginal Total (TDEL) improvement in disability rights. Year Payments Outturn Percentage £’000 £’000 The DPRK signed the UN Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities in July 2013. We 2004-05 502,893 69,000,000 0.7% understand that, following revision of its relevant 2005-06 560,308 76,000,000 0.7% legislation, the DPRK government is aiming to ratify 2006-07 579,390 81,000,000 0.7% the Convention by the end of 2016. 2007-08 633,325 84,000,000 0.8% During 2014, our Embassy in Pyongyang has worked 2008-09 769,226 91,000,000 0.8% where possible with international and domestic 2009-10 786,991 98,000,000 0.8% organisations in the DPRK to promote disability rights 2010-11 863,398 100,000,000 0.9% and improve the treatment of disabled people. This 2011-12 1,277,372 103,000,000 1.2% included supporting a sports and cultural event for 2012-13 1,258,880 105,000,000 1.2% disabled children on the “National Day of People with 2013-14 1,192,538 110,000,000 1.1% Disability” to raise awareness of disability issues. Note: Internationally, we are keeping the spotlight on the 1. Numbers taken from the Department’s Annual Report and DPRK on the range of human rights issues. We strongly Accounts supported the recent country resolution on human 2. During the Spending Review 2010 period (i.e. 2011-12 to rights in the UN General Assembly Third Committee. 2014-15), there have been two significant Machinery of Government changes to transfer functions and spending from Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool DH to the Department for Communities and Local Government. These changes were only backdated to 2007-08 and therefore the To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the TDEL figures for financial years before this date are not directly safety of the families of North Korean refugees comparable. who remain in North Korea was considered before the United Kingdom designated South Korea as a safe country of origin for refugees. [HL3709] Non-domestic Rates Question The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Asked by Lord Browne of Belmont Office (Lord Bates) (Con): The legal test for designation of a State (or part of a State) is set out in section 94(5) To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002. intend to bring forward proposals to enable small A country can be designated if it is “generally safe”, businesses to claim a rates reduction to help them i.e. that persecution or other serious human rights retain staff. [HL3501] abuses are not widespread and that removal of a person to that State would not in general contravene The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord the UK’s obligations under European Convention on Deighton) (Con): At Autumn Statement 2014, the Human Rights. The treatment faced outside of the government announced it would double Small Business state (or part of state) by those entitled to reside in it is Rate Relief in England for one year from April 2015, not a relevant consideration. Any risk faced by the reducing business rates for 575,000 small businesses, families of refugees would be the same whether the with 385,000 paying no rates at all. person gets protection in the UK or in South Korea. Even if that risk were different, designation of South Further, businesses throughout the UK are entitled Korea is still appropriate because there is, in general, to a £2,000 Employment Allowance to reduce their no risk to nationals or residents of that country. employer National Insurance Contributions bill every year. 97 per cent of claimants for the Employment Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool Allowance have been small businesses with fewer than 50 employees. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether Foreign and Commonwealth Office-funded organisations in North Korea pay their in-country partners in North Korea North Korean Won or in foreign currency; and how the British Embassy pays its North Korean staff. Questions [HL3755] Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Baroness Anelay of St Johns: Foreign and they have made of the treatment of disabled people Commonwealth Office projects in the Democratic People’s in North Korea. [HL3708] Republic of Korea (DPRK) are usually delivered through international partners, such as the British Council, International Committee of the Red Cross or the The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Royal United Service Institute. Where we or partners Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): As set out make payments in-country for specific goods or services, in the latest Foreign and Commonwealth Office Human this is usually done in euros. Our Embassy in Pyongyang Rights Annual Report, there was no evidence of does not pay for project costs in North Korean won. WA 185 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 186

The local staff who work at our Embassy in Pyongyang of the Security Council, sent a joint letter to the are not directly employed by the Embassy, but employed President of the Security Council, requesting that the and assigned by the DPRK government. This arrangement situation in the DPRK be placed on the Council’s is common to all Embassies and international agenda. A meeting to discuss this new agenda item organisations working in the DPRK. Basic salaries took place on 22 December. During this first discussion are paid to the DPRK’s General Services Bureau, the UK used our intervention to express our concern while allowances, overtime and bonuses are paid directly at the human rights situation in the DPRK and our to individuals. All payments are made in euros. belief that if the DPRK will not hold human rights Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool violators to account, the international community must be ready to do so. We also underlined that the DPRK To ask Her Majesty’s Government what anti-bribery authorities bear primary responsibility for protecting measures are in place for Foreign and Commonwealth human rights and expressed our regret that they have Office-funded organisations working in North Korea withdrawn the offers of engagement made in the run in the light of the assessment in Transparency up to the Third Committee vote. International’s 2014 Corruption Index of corruption Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool among North Korean public officials. [HL3756] To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to Baroness Anelay of St Johns: Foreign and the Written Answer by the Minister of State in the Commonwealth Office (FCO) projects in the Democratic Foreign and Commonwealth Office (214687) on People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) are usually delivered 21 November, how many North Korean citizens through international partners such as the British were able to access United Kingdom-funded small-scale Council, International Committee of the Red Cross or projects focused on human rights, rather than the Royal United Services Institute. Before we select humanitarian goals, throughout 2013. [HL3831] an implementing partner we carry out relevant due diligence checks, which include, but are not limited to, Baroness Anelay of St Johns: Promoting human obtaining assurances about: training provided to staff rights, democracy and the rule of law forms a core in relation to reporting bribery and corruption; how part of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s work. those concerns are shared with donors; and what We aim to make a difference to people’s lives by policies and principles and/or procedures the organisation helping to build the capacity of governments and civil has in place to regulate its own conduct. society to promote and protect human rights across In line with standard FCO project requirements, the globe, including where possible within the Democratic detailed budgets are required for all projects and these People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK). The nature of are carefully checked to ensure both in-country and human rights projects means it is difficult to define other costs are reasonable. Project implementers are them in terms of how many people were able to required to provide quarterly financial reports and “access” them. For example, in 2013 one project in originals or copies of all invoices and receipts, as well support of human rights in the DPRK was the funding as a Project Completion Report containing a detailed of the UN Commission of Inquiry to visit London breakdown of all expenditure during the project period. and hear testimony from refugees. No North Korean The final payment on any project is only released after citizens participated in this project and very few will submission of a satisfactory Project Completion Report. have heard of the Commission’s report, but this does Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool not mean the project was not a meaningful contribution to human rights in the DPRK. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to promote the implementation of Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool the recommendations of the United Nations To ask Her Majesty’s Government what change Commission of Inquiry into human rights violations will be delivered in North Korea by the Foreign and in North Korea, in particular the recommendation Commonwealth Office-funded Thomson Foundation that those responsible should be tried for crimes project ″Inside Out: Working in North Korea to against humanity. [HL3828] connect its journalists to the internet world″,in respect of the unavailability of the internet in that Baroness Anelay of St Johns: Following the publication country and the United Nations Commission of of the Commission’s report in February 2014, the UK Inquiry’s findings on freedom of expression and has worked with the EU and like-minded partners to freedom of information in that country; and what ensure strong resolutions on DPRK human rights at assessment they have made of concerns that North both the UN Human Rights Council and the UN Korean journalists benefiting from the project are General Assembly, including language condemning members of the Workers’ Party of Korea. [HL3832] the ongoing systematic, widespread and gross violations of human rights in the DPRK, commending the work Baroness Anelay of St Johns: The Democratic People’s of the Commission of Inquiry and encouraging the Republic of Korea (DPRK) maintains extremely tight UN Security Council to consider the relevant conclusions control over media and restricts access to foreign and recommendations of the Commission and take broadcasting. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office appropriate action to ensure accountability. funded project ‘Inside Out: Working in North Korea We have also worked to ensure formal discussion of to connect its journalists to the internet world’ is an DPRK human rights by the UN Security Council. On on-going media project which intends to increase 5 December the UK, along with nine other members interaction between the DPRK and international media WA 187 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 188 organisations. The objective is to promote a more Lord Wallace of Saltaire: Our officials actively open culture of news reporting in line with internationally participated in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty accepted journalistic norms and technical standards, (NPT) 2014 Preparatory Committee, which provided by encouraging greater discussion and dialogue within a valuable opportunity to engage with NPT States DPRK broadcasting. Rather than benefitting the Workers’ Parties on priorities for the Review Conference. The Party of Korea, the project seeks to encourage greater Government’s objectives reflect our overall approach interaction between the participants and the outside to the NPT: we want to agree further progress towards world. a world free from nuclear weapons and to highlight our actions in support of this; encourage action that will help to contain any threat of proliferation or Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty non-compliance with the NPT; and support the responsible global expansion of civil nuclear industries. Questions We believe that the NPT is the cornerstone of the Asked by Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer international nuclear non-proliferation regime, and we therefore hope that NPT States Parties will be able to To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they agree a consensual outcome balanced across all three consider that sufficient progress was made at the mutually-reinforcing pillars to strengthen that position. 2010 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Asked by Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer Conference; and what progress they can report on identified follow-on actions. [HL3608] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they hope to make on Article VI of the Nuclear Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The Government Non-Proliferation Treaty next year; and what obstacles believes the Action Plan that resulted from the Nuclear they anticipate. [HL3611] Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) 2010 Review Conference, which was agreed by all NPT States Parties, was a Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The Government will success, encompassing over sixty actions related to continue to implement the commitment announced in disarmament, non-proliferation and the peaceful uses the 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review, to of nuclear energy. Since the 2010 Review Conference, reduce the number of operationally available nuclear the UK has taken a variety of steps in support of warheads to no more than 120 and to reduce our progress against that Action Plan. Many of these steps overall nuclear weapon stockpile to no more than 180 were set out in our statements to the 2014 NPT by the mid 2020s. We will continue our efforts to build Preparatory Committee, which are available on the confidence between the Nuclear Weapons States (a UN Office for Disarmament Affairs website at the fundamental foundation for disarmament). As one of following link: http://papersmart.unmeetings.org/en/ those steps to foster mutual trust and confidence, the secretariat/unoda/npt/third-session-of the- UK will host the next conference of P5 Nuclear Weapon preparatory-committee-2014/statements-(10)/. The UK States in London in February 2015. also published a national report on progress against We will also continue to push for entry into force of the Action Plan at the Preparatory Committee; a copy the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty (CTBT), is available in the Library of the House and attached and for negotiations on a Fissile Material Cut-Off to this response. Treaty to start in the Conference on Disarmament. In This Answer included the following attachment: addition, we will take forward our pioneering research UK National Report (UK’s national report to the into disarmament verification. We have made clear 2014 PrepCom.docx) that our goal is a world without nuclear weapons. This goal has to be approached step by step through further Asked by Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer reductions by the two States holding the majority of To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps nuclear weapons and through increased confidence they will take give a political lead at the Nuclear between the Nuclear Weapon States. Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference to be We remain fully committed to these efforts, despite held from 28 April to 9 May 2015 in New York, in the challenges of the current global security environment. the light of that conference taking place during the election period. [HL3609] Nuclear Weapons Lord Wallace of Saltaire: The UK takes all of its Question international obligations seriously.We are still developing Asked by Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer our approach to next year’s Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference, taking account of international To ask Her Majesty’s Government what positive developments and consultations with other States Parties. outcomes they can report from the 3rd International We are also considering the implications for the UK’s Conference on the Humanitarian Impact of Nuclear approach, given the Review Conference’s concurrent Weapons which they attended in Vienna. [HL3607] timing with the general election. Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The UK’s participation Asked by Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer in the Conference was welcomed by many states, non- To ask Her Majesty’s Government what priorities governmental organisations and parliamentarians. At they identified at the Nuclear Non-Proliferation the Conference, officials listened carefully to the participants, Treaty preparatory committee earlier this year that who expressed a very wide range of views. Some argued they will pursue at the Nuclear Non-Proliferation that the way to achieve the goal of a world without Treaty review itself. [HL3610] nuclear weapons was to ban weapons now or to fix a WA 189 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 190 timetable for their elimination. This approach fails to The Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) is take account of the stability and security which nuclear responsible for registering nurses. The following table weapons can help to secure. None of us would gain shows the number of nurses who trained in England from a loss of that stability. The UK believes that the and registered for the first time with the NMC in each UN Disarmament Machinery and the Non-Proliferation of the last four years. Treaty provide the right forum for working towards a Number of nurses who trained in England and world without nuclear weapons. registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council Our Ambassador to Austria restated our concern at for the first time: the humanitarian consequences which could result from the use of nuclear weapons. That is why the UK Number of initial registrations from works extremely hard to prevent the use of nuclear Year nurses who have trained in England weapons; to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons; 1 April 2010 – 31 March 2011 14,216 and to keep our own nuclear weapons safe and secure. 1 April 2011 – 31 March 2012 13,981 We are also committed to working towards a world 1 April 2012 – 31 March 2013 15,452 without nuclear weapons. In our Strategic Defence 1 April 2013 – 31 March 2014 16,657 and Security Review in 2010, the Government undertook to reduce the number of warheads we have by the Source: Nursing and Midwifery Council mid-2020s. However, we shall retain a continuous Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough submarine based deterrent, for as long as the global security situation makes it necessary. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many A copy of the UK intervention at the Conference registered nurses were enlisted on the General Medical has been placed in the Library of the House and is Council register in each of the years from 2010 to attached to this response. 2014. [HL3805] This Answer included the following attachment:UK intervention at International Conference (HL3607-UK Intervention Vienna HINW.docx) The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Nurses are not required Nurses to register with the General Medical Council (GMC), Questions but are required to register with the Nursing and Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough Midwifery Council (NMC) in order to practise as a nurse in the United Kingdom. Both the GMC and the To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many NMC are independent bodies and are responsible for students graduated as registered nurses in each of ensuring that their own registers are appropriately the years from 2010 to 2014. [HL3804] maintained. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department The NMC does not collect information on dual of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Department does registration. The following data, obtained from the not hold information on the number of students who NMC, shows the number of entries on the NMC have graduated as registered nurses. register on 31 March each year since 2010:

Nurse, Nurse & Nurse and Midwife & Midwife & Date Nurse Midwife SCPHN1 Midwife SCPHN SCPHN SCPHN Total

31 March 600,794 26,328 25,375 12,602 667 208 8 665,982 2010 31 March 604,223 26,328 25,643 11,813 612 249 0 668,868 2011 31 March 606,410 28,501 25,467 11,424 539 279 0 672,620 2012 31 March 608,107 29,562 26,084 10,609 533 377 3 675,275 2013 31 March 612,047 30,535 26,961 10,256 514 556 10 680,879 2014 Notes: 1. Specialist Community Public Health Nursing (SCPHN)

Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough The latest available data for September 2014 shows that there are now 313,514 full-time equivalent (FTE) To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many staff in the nursing, midwifery and health visiting registered nurses were employed by the National group. Health Service in each of the years from 2010 to 2014. [HL3806] The number of registered nurses employed by the Earl Howe: The Health and Social Care Information National Health Service in each of the years from Centre publishes provisional monthly workforce statistics. 2010 to 2014 is included in the following table. WA 191 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 192

Hospital and Community Health Services: Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting staff England as at 30 FTE September each year Staff Group 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014

Qualified nursing, 309,139 306,346 305,060 307,692 313,514 midwifery and health visiting staff of which: Registered midwife 20,126 20,519 20,935 21,284 21,670 Health visitor 8,017 7,941 8,386 9,109 10,167 Source: Health and Social Care Information Centre Provisional Monthly Workforce Statistics for September 2014 Notes: These statistics relate to the contracted positions within English NHS organisations and may include those where the person assigned to the position is temporarily absent, for example on maternity leave. In 2011, the bank staff return was ceased. All data (for all years) in these tables excludes bank staff.

Nurses: North East estimates that the average cost of training a nurse in 2013 was £78,604. This figure reflects the total cost of Question training and therefore includes costs funded through Asked by Lord Beecham the public purse, including the National Health Service bursary, and by the student. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to address any shortage of nurses in the North East of England; and whether they have Nutrition considered the implications of the possible failure to renew the contract currently held by Northumbria Questions University for nurse and other related training. Asked by Lord Mawhinney [HL3844] To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 17 November of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Health Education North (HL2579), which eight supermarkets are currently East (HENE) is working closely with the nurse leaders signed up to the calorie reduction pledge. [HL3544] across the region to develop a Nursing Recruitment To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to and Retention Strategy to address the shortage of the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 17 November nurses. The development of the strategy was agreed by (HL2579), what is the calorie reduction pledge signed HENE’s governing body at its meeting in September up to by eight supermarket chains; whether they 2014. have a sugar reduction goal in mind in reference to HENE has a successful history of working with the pledge; and if so, what it is. [HL3545] two high quality providers of nursing education, To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to Northumbria and Teesside Universities, and there is the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 17 November no current intention to terminate either of these annual (HL2579), who is responsible for monitoring the nursing contracts. Additionally, HENE has begun working effectiveness of the supermarkets’ action either to with the Open University (OU) to develop future cut sugar or to provide sugar-free or sugar-reduced flexible routes into nursing by commissioning extra products. [HL3546] adult nurse places through the OU programme. Health Education England has reached agreement To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to with Universities UK and the Council of Deans on the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 17 November contracts with universities, including Northumbria, (HL2579), in the light of their commitment to for the provision of nurse and other related training. reducing obesity, why the partnership with supermarkets in relation to their provision of sugar-free or sugar-reduced products is voluntary and not Nurses: Training mandatory. [HL3547] Question The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The voluntary approach To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the of working with industry is achieving real reductions estimated cost of training a graduate registered in calories, including sugar. Examples include: nurse, including on-costs and the student bursary. - the Co-operative Group taking out added sugar [HL3807] from its high juices, removing 1.5 billion kcals per year; The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department - Tesco removing two billion calories from its of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Personal Social juices, following on from the one billion removed Services Research Unit at the University of Kent in 2012; and WA 193 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 194

- Sainsbury’s reducing sugar in its Own Brand products are correctly labelled to enable consumers to chilled juices by 83.5 tonnes a year. make informed decisions concerning the products they The eight supermarkets currently signed up to the buy. calorie reduction pledge are: - Aldi Stores; Offences against Children: Rotherham - ASDA; Questions - the Co-operative Group; - Marks and Spencer; Asked by Lord Ahmed - Morrisons; To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans - Sainsbury’s; they have to ensure the protection of vulnerable - Tesco; and children, particularly in Rotherham, in the face of recent cuts in the budget of South Yorkshire - Waitrose. Police. [HL3368] Companies signed up to the calorie reduction pledge have committed to support and enable their customers To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they to eat and drink fewer calories through a range of have analysed the Report of the Independent Inquiry actions, including product/menu reformulation, reviewing into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham; and portion sizes, education and information, and actions whether the total number of victims cited in that to shift the marketing mix towards lower calorie options. report is based on verifiable data or is an The emphasis of the pledge is on overall calorie reduction; estimate. [HL3370] however, cutting sugar forms an important part of that strategy. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con): The Government is clear Companies report each year on their activities to that there is more to be done for victims and to reduce calories, including sugar, and these returns are minimise the risk of such terrible events occurring in published on the Responsibility Deal website along Rotherham or anywhere else in the future. What happened with their Delivery Plans. An independent evaluation in Rotherham was a complete dereliction of duty. of the Responsibility Deal is under way and due to report early 2016. This is why the Home Secretary has been chairing a series of Secretaries of State meetings alongside colleagues from the Ministry of Justice, Department for Education, Occupied Territories Communities and Local Government and Department Questions of Health, and the Attorney General and Solicitor General to analyse the failures identified in the Jay Asked by Lord Ahmed report and consider how all parties, including the police and local government, can work together more To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they effectively on the issue of child sexual exploitation to plan to place restrictions on United Kingdom trade protect vulnerable children and bring offenders to with Israeli settlements. [HL3684] justice. This will build on the existing work of the Home Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): There are currently Office-led National Group to tackle sexual violence no plans to place restrictions on UK trade with Israeli against children and vulnerable people, which is ensuring settlements. The Government has, however, placed agencies are working together to better identify those advice online to raise awareness of the key security at risk. and political risks that UK businesses may face when The Jay report made a ‘conservative estimate’ that operating abroad, including in Israel and the Occupied there were over 1400 victims of CSE during the 15-year Palestinian Territories. This includes guidance on Israeli period. The 1400 figure was based on a reading of settlements. We are advising British businesses to bear 66 case files, out of a total of 988, and includes some in mind the Government’s view on the illegality of who were forced to watch others being assaulted and settlements under international law when considering abused as well as those who were physically harmed. their investments and activities in the region. The Government is determined that appalling cases Asked by Lord Ahmed of child abuse should be exposed so that perpetrators face justice and the vulnerable are protected. Police To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they and Crime Commissioners (PCCs) are able to apply plan to prohibit the importation of goods from for Special Grant if the police force they are responsible Israeli settlements to the United Kingdom unless for faces an unexpected and exceptional event that they are certified by the Palestinian Authority under places a significant financial burden on the force. the European Union–Palestine Liberation Organisation Association Agreement. [HL3685] Asked by Lord Scriven To ask Her Majesty’s Government what actions Lord Wallace of Saltaire: There are currently no they are taking to ensure that South Yorkshire plans for EU or domestic legislation to ban the import Police carry out the recommendations in the report of settlement products. The issue of settlement produce by Professor Alexis Jay Independent Inquiry into is a subject of ongoing work with our EU partners. Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham (1997– This work includes steps to ensure that settlement 2013). [HL3413] WA 195 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 196

Lord Bates: The Home Secretary has written to all The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for chief constables to ask them to take on board the Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): All schools can choose to lessons from the Jay report into the failings in Rotherham, include teaching which takes place beyond the school’s and from the rolling HMIC inspections into how premises into their curriculum. The Government does forces are protecting children. HMIC’s South Yorkshire not prescribe to schools how they should teach; instead, Police child protection inspection report was published it provides them with the freedom to design their own on 30 September. curriculum activities which best support the needs of The National Policing Lead for child protection their pupils. and abuse investigation has taken action to revise the When activities are structured and organised effectively, national policing child sexual exploitation action plan they can provide young people with stimulating to take account of the learning from the Jay report experiences which build on the knowledge and and other recent publications. A series of briefings to understanding they gain through lessons. Learning police managers across England and Wales, including outside the classroom can also help to build pupils’ South Yorkshire Police, have been completed so that character and interpersonal skills. the key findings of the Jay Inquiry are shared with Ofsted’s report ‘Learning outside the classroom: frontline leaders across the police service. How far should you go?’ (2008) reported on barriers Furthermore, on 13 October it was announced that to schools’ provision of such activities. The barriers the Chief Constable for South Yorkshire requested included concerns about health and safety, financial that the National Crime Agency leads an independent costs, concerns about pupils’ behaviour, and staff investigation into outstanding allegations of child sexual workload. The report outlines successful strategies exploitation in Rotherham, raised in the Professor Jay and approaches adopted by schools to overcome such Report. barriers.

Organisation for Security and Pakistan Cooperation in Europe Question Question Asked by Lord Storey Asked by Lord Bowness To ask Her Majesty’s Government what To ask Her Majesty’s Government what were the consideration they have given to ensuring that outcomes of the Organisation for Security and international aid for the purposes of education in Co-operation in Europe Ministerial Council Meeting Pakistan is not used to further the discrimination of held in Basel on 4 and 5 December; and what minorities; and whether conditional aid programmes progress was made in the Helsinki +40 process. will be implemented in the region. [HL3602] [HL3702] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): I refer the noble for International Development (Baroness Northover) Lord to the Written Ministerial Statement of 15 December (LD): DFID has strong monitoring and third party 2014 on the outcomes of the Organisation for Security validation arrangements in place across our education and Cooperation (OSCE) Basel Ministerial Council, programmes to ensure UK aid is not used in ways that made by the Minister of State for Foreign and promote prejudice and discrimination against religious Commonwealth Affairs, my right honourable friend or other minorities. the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington), which I repeated in the House of Lords (Official Report, cols. WS5-6). In the Statement, it was noted that a further Palestinians declaration was agreed on the continuation of the Helsinki +40 process. However, the process in 2014 Questions has largely stalled due to the Ukraine crisis, with only Asked by Baroness Tonge limited discussion of possible efficiency measures. The incoming Serbian OSCE chairmanship has a mandate To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they to continue discussions. But it remains unclear how have held discussions with the European Union they can take the process forward while Russia continues concerning the case for reversing its policy of trying to violate core OSCE principles. We continue to focus to isolate and topple Hamas, in the light of the in the first place on restoring respect for, and analysis of the International Crisis Group. [HL3627] implementation of, those commitments. Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The EU and the UK Outdoor Education have not changed their position on Hamas. The military wing of Hamas has been proscribed since 2001 under Question UK legislation. On Wednesday 17 December the EU Asked by Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer General Court annulled the EU listing of Hamas on procedural grounds. However, the effects of the EU To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are the Hamas listing, including asset freezes, remain in place main barriers for schools in developing wider learning and we will work with partners to ensure that the outside the classroom programmes. [HL3542] Hamas listing at the EU is maintained. WA 197 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 198

Asked by Baroness Deech sustainable solution for Gaza that addresses the underlying issues, and we continue to urge the parties to resume To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment negotiations to that end. they have made of the treatment of Christians in Gaza. [HL3722]

Lord Wallace of Saltaire: We understand that there Parkinson’s Disease: Drugs are around 1,300 Christians in Gaza, who are allowed Questions to practise freely, including observing religious holidays. Asked by Baroness Gale Asked by Baroness Tonge To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps To ask Her Majesty’s Government what temporary they are taking to ensure that people in the advanced arrangements have been made for the homeless in stages of Parkinson’s disease have access to a full Gaza over this and succeeding winters. [HL3733] range of treatment options. [HL3850]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover) The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department (LD): The UK was one of the biggest donors to Gaza of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Parkinson’s disease: following the recent conflict, providing more than Diagnosis and management in primary and secondary £17 million in emergency assistance to deliver lifesaving care, published by the National Institute for Health food, clean water, shelter and medical assistance. At and Care Excellence (NICE) in 2006 sets out a range the Gaza Reconstruction Conference in October, the of treatment options for Parkinson’s disease. UK pledged a further £20 million which includes the Treatments for Parkinson’s disease are largely drug provision of shelter and basic services for people based. The NICE guidance states that patient preference displaced from their homes. We have disbursed a quarter should be taken into account, once they have been of this pledge already to help meet the needs of the informed of the short and long-term benefits and most vulnerable this winter. DFID is also funding the drawbacks of the different types of drugs available. Gaza Reconstruction Mechanism for the import of The guidance makes it clear that other supportive construction materials into Gaza so that people are treatments may also be appropriate. These can include able to repair their homes. physiotherapy, occupational therapy and speech and Asked by Lord Turnberg language therapy. Asked by Baroness Gale To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the value to the Palestinian To ask Her Majesty’s Government what economy of the employment of Palestinians by representations they have received about access to Israeli companies in the West Bank. [HL3814] Duodopa for people in the advanced stages of Parkinson’s disease; and what responses they have The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth made. [HL3851] Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): The Palestinian Central Bureau for Statistics reports that 23,100 Palestinians from the West Bank are employed Earl Howe: We have received a number of in Israeli settlements (statistics for Q2, 2014). We do representations from hon. Members, noble Lords, patient not have any estimation of the value of this employment groups and members of the public about access to to the Palestinian economy.We consider Israeli settlements Duodopa for the treatment of advanced Parkinson’s in the West Bank to be illegal under international law, disease on the National Health Service. regardless of whether Palestinians are employed in Our responses have made clear that NHS England companies there or not. has responsibility for commissioning adult specialist Asked by Lord Turnberg neurosciences services, including the majority of services for patients with Parkinson’s disease and have set out To ask Her Majesty’s Government what efforts NHS England’s position on this issue at the time of they are making to encourage Hamas to co-operate writing. with international aid agencies in the reconstruction Asked by Baroness Howells of St Davids of civilian property. [HL3815] To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they expect NHS England to take a decision regarding Baroness Northover: Reconstruction in Gaza will the draft clinical commissioning policy for require political commitment by all parties, technical Duodopa. [HL3855] capacities for crossings and equipment, the smooth functioning of the Gaza Reconstruction Mechanism To ask Her Majesty’s Government how NHS and adequate financial resources. The UK is providing England’s decision regarding the draft clinical £0.5 million to the mechanism as part of our pledge commissioning policy for Duodopa will be for Gaza early recovery and reconstruction. By communicated to (1) the public, (2) patient 10 December, more than 6,000 people had been able to organisations, and (3) healthcare professionals. buy building materials. Ultimately, we need to see a [HL3856] WA 199 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 200

Earl Howe: NHS England has advised that its Clinical To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Priorities Advisory Group recommended that Levodopa- have received any representations regarding the Carbidopa intestinal gel (Duodopa) for advanced installation of shared space pedestrian crossings. Parkinson’s disease should not be routinely commissioned [HL3700] by NHS England at this time. NHS England’s Directly To ask Her Majesty’s Government what statistics Commissioned Services Committee endorsed this they have on the number of accidents where a recommendation in June 2014 and agreed that this shared space pedestrian crossing has been installed; technology should be considered further through NHS and whether those statistics indicate an increase in England’s prioritisation process. The decisions of the such accidents. [HL3701] committee were communicated via a stakeholder newsletter which is accessible both via direct mail, and through the NHS England website. Further work has been completed on NHS England’s The Minister of State, Department for Transport draft clinical commissioning policy and this is now (Baroness Kramer) (LD): The design of traffic included in the prioritisation process alongside other management schemes, including whether to install a new treatments for consideration for 2015-16. shared space scheme, is the responsibility of local authorities. Shared space may incorporate what are The decision-making framework for NHS England’s sometimes called ‘courtesy crossings’, but these have prioritisation process was discussed at its Board meeting no formal definition. They are similar in principle to on 17 December 2014. The Board agreed the high level informal dropped kerb crossings, which can be used to principles of the framework and NHS England plans provide a crossing place where a controlled crossing is to launch a public consultation about the principles not justified. and approach to decision-making from January 2015. Members of the public, patient organisations and The Department for Transport’s guidance on shared healthcare professionals will be able to feed their space schemes is given in the attached Local Transport comments in via this route. Note 1/11: Shared Space. NHS England continues to keep the range of services The Department has also circulated to local authorities and treatments available to patients under review as guidance produced by the National Federation for the new evidence and expert guidance becomes available. Blind on ‘Access for Blind People in Towns’. The Department receives correspondence on issues relating to all aspects of traffic management, including Pay shared space. The correspondents range from individual Question members of the public to local authorities, engineering practitioners, and campaign groups. Asked by Lord Taylor of Warwick The Department’s road safety statistics do not record To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their whether an incident took place on a courtesy crossing, assessment of the recent report of the International as these are not defined. Labour Organisation on changes in real wages in the United Kingdom compared to those in other This answer contained the following attachment: Local Transport Note 1/11 (HL3699 - Local Transport G20 countries. [HL3476] Note 1-11.pdf)

The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Deighton) (Con): Wage flexibility in the UK has helped support employment levels and household income. Peers The government’s strategy for delivering sustainable increases in living standards is to support economic Question growth and get more people into work. Since the Asked by Lord Hoyle election the UK has had the fastest employment growth in the G7 (plus Australia). Employment has increased To ask the Chairman of Committees (1) how by 1.7 million since the Coalition came to power and many Members of the House of Lords are over this Government has taken decisive action to support 70 years of age in each of the following categories: working families, by raising the personal allowance, Conservative; Labour; Liberal Democrat; other, and freezing fuel duty, and introducing tax-free childcare. (2) on average, how many Members attend the House each week. [HL3818] Pedestrian Crossings Questions The Chairman of Committees (Lord Sewel): There are 128 Conservative Peers, 122 Labour Peers, 45 Liberal Asked by Lord McAvoy Democrat Peers, 101 Crossbench Peers and 19 other Peers over 70 years of age. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have given guidance to local authorities regarding The Administration does not collect average weekly the installation of shared space pedestrian crossings. attendance figures but the average daily attendance in [HL3699] this Session is 479. WA 201 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 202

Pensions: Tax Allowances Prison Sentences Question Question Asked by Lord Beecham Asked by Lord Beecham To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the current annual cost to the Exchequer of tax relief at budget for providing courses for indeterminate sentence the standard and higher rates of tax respectively on prisoners convicted of (1) sex offences, and (2) contributions to private pensions. [HL3424] other offences, in each of the last three years. [HL3404]

The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Deighton) (Con): Tax relief on pension contributions Faulks) (Con): The National Offender Management is the primary means by which the Government Service’s central accounting system does not separately incentivises saving for retirement. The estimated exchequer identify details of budgets allocated for the provision cost arising from income tax relief on contributions of courses for all prisoners serving indeterminate sentence, made to private pensions and relief on the investment or by conviction categories. Budgets associated with returns to private pensions in 2012-13 was £34.8bn[1]. such expenditure are primarily met through establishment Income tax on pensions in payment in the same year baseline funding and could only be obtained at was £12.0bn, resulting in a net cost of pensions tax disproportionate cost by examining locally held records relief of £22.8bn in 2012-13. at each establishment, disaggregating and then collating [1] This is published in HMRC National Statistics table PEN6, the costs that relate to the relevant categories of offenders available here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ and courses. registered-pension-schemes-cost-of-tax-relief Figures for 2012-13 are the latest available. There is no set departmental guidance on the proportional allocation of individual budgets. Prison budgets are compiled annually based on an assessment of operational business needs and may vary from year Post Offices to year according to changes in departmental priorities. Question Asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno Prisons: Publications Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the reduction in Asked by Lord Taylor of Warwick the Post Office network on its ability to meet its To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they obligation to provide a universal postal service. plan to comply with the High Court ruling that the [HL3758] ban on sending books to prisoners in England and Wales is unlawful. [HL3475] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord (Con): This Government has committed to there being Faulks) (Con): We need to await the terms of the no programme of Post Office closures. Furthermore Court Order before we can decide how best to fulfil since October 2014, and the launch of Post Office’s the ruling of the Court. home shopping returns pilot which has seen approximately The judgment in this case was surprising, as there 150 new postal access points open across the UK, the was never a specific ban on books. The restrictions on network is now growing for the first time in more than parcels have been in existence across most of the 50 years. prison estate for many years and for very good reasons. Royal Mail and the Post Office are separate Prisoners have access to the same library service as the independent businesses and it is Royal Mail, not the rest of us, and can buy books through the prison shop. Post Office, which is the company that has been designated as the UK’s universal postal service provider. Private Equity The Post Office acts as an agent of Royal Mail, providing access to its mail products and services Question through its national network under commercial contract. Asked by Lord Mendelsohn The Post Office provides access to a wide range of other services including Government, financial and To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they telephony. have any plans to introduce any further transparency The Government understands the important role requirements for companies owned or substantially that post offices play in communities across the country owned by private equity funds. [HL3554] and since 2010 has committed nearly £2 billion to maintain, modernise and protect a network of at least The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department 11,500 branches that continues to meet strict access for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) criteria that see, for example, 95% of the urban population (Con): Measures to create a central, public register of living within one mile of a post office outlet. people with significant control over UK companies WA 203 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 204 are contained within the Small Business, Enterprise The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord and Employment Bill. Where a private equity fund Deighton) (Con): Since Spending Review 2010, the owns more than 25% of a UK company’s shares or Northern Ireland Executive has received additional voting rights – or otherwise exercises significant control allocations following the application of the Barnett over that company - the company will need to disclose Formula. The cumulative amounts are set out in the information on the control of the fund in line with the table below. requirements in Schedule 3 of the Bill. The Government does not have any plans to introduce 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 any further transparency requirements on such companies. £m £m £m Asked by Lord Mendelsohn 62 140 221 To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have received any representations from investors in private equity funds on the increase in fees paid by Public Footpaths portfolio companies to the operators of the funds Question and not to the funds where investors would benefit. [HL3555] Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord they are taking to protect footpaths and rights of Deighton) (Con): Treasury Ministers and officials receive way in England. [HL3715] regular correspondence on a wide range of issues. We cannot disclose details of specific representations. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Public Expenditure for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord De Question Mauley) (Con): Local highway authorities are responsible for protecting the rights of the public to use footpaths Asked by Lord Davies of Stamford and other rights of way. They are also responsible for determining their own local spending priorities. However, To ask Her Majesty’s Government what has we have recently completed the £2 million Paths for been the underspend of the Ministry of Defence in Communities Programme, creating 53.28 kilometres the financial years 2010–11, 2011–12, 2012–13, 2013–14 of new bridleway and 21.42 kilometres of new and prospectively in 2014–15; and how much of the footpath—in total over 74 kilometres of new public underspend in each of those years has been rolled rights of way. forward and made available for additional spending We are also introducing a balanced package of by the Ministry of Defence in subsequent years. rights of way reforms as part of the Deregulation Bill. [HL3656] Those reforms will significantly improve the processes for recording and altering the public rights of way The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry network. The reforms make the procedures more of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): Comparable streamlined and will help complete the definitive map figures for financial year 2010-11 are not available as and statement by the 2026 cut-off date, thereby protecting the Government had not, at that time, introduced The historical public rights of way from extinguishment. Clear of Line Sight initiative, which precludes analysis on a near cash basis for that financial year. In 2011-12 the Ministry of Defence (MOD) underspent by £300 million and there was no budget exchange. Public Sector: Car Allowances In 2012-13 the MOD underspent by £2.3 billion; Question £590 million was rolled forward into 2013-14, £1,706 million into 2014-15 and £21 million in 2015-16. Asked by Lord Marlesford In 2013-14 the MOD underspent by £900 million, To ask Her Majesty’s Government which groups £100 million was rolled forward into 2014-15 and £700 of employees in the public sector are reimbursed for million in 2015-16. official use of private cars at a higher rate than The MOD’s final outturn for 2014-15 will not be 45 pence per mile and why. [HL3694] available until the end of the financial year.

Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The Cabinet Office Public Expenditure: Northern Ireland does not hold the information requested. Question In the Civil Service, departments and agencies have Asked by Lord Empey delegated authority to determine their own policy on the reimbursement of travel expenses incurred by their To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the staff on official business, subject to the rules in Chapter 8 value of Barnett consequentials paid to the Northern of the Civil Service Management Code: https:// Ireland Executive for the last three years for which www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-servants- figures are available. [HL3520] terms-and-conditions WA 205 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 206

Public Sector: Pay series. This information is published online at: www.gov.uk/government/collections/statistics- Question exclusions Asked by Baroness Seccombe Asked by Baroness King of Bow To ask Her Majesty’s Government what estimate To ask Her Majesty’s Government , for each they have made of the annual cost of paying the year since 2010 what was the average time for (1) a Living Wage across the public sector. [HL3689] permanently excluded disabled pupil with a Special Educational Need (SEN), and (2) a permanently The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord excluded disabled pupil without SEN, to be accepted Deighton) (Con): The Government does not have an at another school. [HL3774] estimate of the cost of applying the living wage across the public sector. Lord Nash: The Department for Education does The Government supports all employers who choose not collect information regarding the length of time it to pay the living wage and encourages businesses to takes for an excluded pupil to be accepted at another pay the living wage where it is affordable. school. For the pay review body workforces and central government the majority of pay scale points are above Qatar the living wage. Question Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool Public Sector: Pensions To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Question they have made of reports of the ill-treatment of Asked by Lord Mendelsohn North Korean labourers working in building World Cup facilities in Qatar; and whether they have To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their raised those reports with the government of estimate of the total United Kingdom public pension Qatar. [HL3706] liability. [HL3477] Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): We are aware of reports of the ill-treatment of North Korean labourers The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord working in Qatar. We take the issue of the treatment Deighton) (Con): The 2012-13 Whole of Government of migrant workers very seriously. The Parliamentary Accounts show that the annual spend on public state Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth pensions was £83.8bn, up from £78.1bn in 2011-12. Affairs, my honourable friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), recently raised human rights issues with the Qatari Government during his Pupil Exclusions: Disability visit to Doha on 15 October, and the issue of migrant Questions workers was raised with the Emir of Qatar during his visit to the UK on 28 to 30 October. We support Asked by Baroness King of Bow Qatar’s intention to reform the current labour law and we continue to encourage the Qatari Government to To ask Her Majesty’s Government , for each address human rights concerns and stand ready to year since 2010, what percentage of exclusions from support those efforts where we can. (1) maintained schools, and (2) academy schools, related to disabled pupils with or without statements. [HL3773] Rare Diseases Advisory Group Questions The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools Asked by Lord Walton of Detchant (Lord Nash) (Con): The Department for Education does not publish information on exclusions of pupils To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they with special education needs (SEN) for academies. will publish a report on the work of the Rare Information for state-funded schools is published Diseases Advisory Group, indicating the extent to in the “Permanent and fixed-period exclusions in England: which its recommendations have influenced the 2012 to 2013” Statistical First Release. This information decisions of the National Institute for Health and is published online at: www.gov.uk/government/ Care Excellence and NHS England. [HL3640] statistics/permanent-and-fixed-period-exclusions-in- england-2012-to-2013 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Table 9 gives a time series of the number of permanent of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): The Rare Diseases Advisory exclusions of pupils with SEN. Tables 10a and 10b Group (RDAG) was established by NHS England to show the number of fixed-period exclusions of pupils provide it and the devolved administrations of Scotland, with SEN and the number of pupils with SEN with Wales and Northern Ireland with consistent advice on one or more fixed- period exclusion, respectively. Data developing and implementing the strategy for rare for earlier years can be found in the “Statistics: exclusions” diseases and highly specialised services. The RDAG is WA 207 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 208 directly accountable to the NHS England Clinical Revenue and Customs: Northern Ireland Priorities Advisory Group. The group’s terms of reference state that the agendas and minutes from their meetings Question are available on the NHS England website. The Asked by Lord Browne of Belmont Department has no plans to publish any further reports on RDAG’s work. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence estimate of the cost to the Exchequer incurred in (NICE) develops its guidance independently, based on training HM Revenue and Customs officers in the available evidence and in consultation with Northern Ireland in the use of vehicle stop and stakeholders. NICE is a full member of RDAG. NHS search powers in each of the last five years. [HL3503] England is a stakeholder in all NICE’s highly specialised technology guidance and may seek advice from the The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord RDAG in engaging with NICE’s guidance development Deighton) (Con): A cadre of officers has been trained processes. to use vehicle stop and search powers. There is no Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath estimate available of the cost. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what advice they have received from NHS England’s Rare Diseases Advisory Group. [HL3737] RSPCA Questions Asked by Viscount Astor Earl Howe: The Rare Diseases Advisory Group was established in March 2014 by NHS England. It was set To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much of up to provide NHS England and the devolved the legal aid budget in 2012, 2013 and 2014 has administrations of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland been spent reimbursing the RSPCA. [HL3579] with consistent advice on developing and implementing To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much of the strategy for rare diseases and highly specialised the legal aid budget has been spent on reimbursing services. The Department has not received any advice defendants in RSPCA private prosecutions in 2012, from the group. 2013 and 2014. [HL3580]

The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Faulks) (Con): The Legal Aid Agency (LAA) has no Regeneration Investment Organisation record of any payments being made relating to the Question RSPCA in the years in question. Asked by Lord Kinnock Asked by Viscount Astor To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many they have for further development of the Regeneration times in 2012, 2013 and 2014 the Crown Prosecution Investment Organisation over (1) the next two years, Service has either taken over or forced discontinuation (2) the next five years, and (3) the next 10 years. of a private prosecution brought by the [HL3633] RSCPA. [HL3581]

Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con): The Crown Prosecution The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Service (CPS) does not maintain an authoritative central for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) record of the number of private prosecutions taken (Con): UKTI’s Regeneration Investment Organisation over. To identify the exact number of times the CPS (RIO) was established a year ago to help international took over or forced the discontinuation of a private investors identify and fund regeneration opportunities prosecution brought by the RSPCA would require a in the UK. RIO was established to address the delays manual exercise to review individual files which would and the fragmentation of the current offer for international incur a disproportionate cost. investors, acting as a “one stop shop”. In its first year, RIO has identified a pipeline of Asked by Viscount Astor 41 ‘shovel ready’ projects requiring £33bn of investment To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many and actively markets this pipeline to international times Ministers in the Ministry of Justice have met investors. Over the next two years, this pipeline will be RSPCA representatives in 2012, 2013 and 2014. developed further and RIO will identify additional [HL3582] international investors to match to the pipeline of opportunities. Success for RIO over the next five to ten years will Lord Faulks: All meetings that take place between be to have established a track record of successful Ministers and external organisations are recorded in investment in regeneration projects, enabling sustainable quarterly transparency statistics, published at the link jobs and growth across the UK. below; https://www.gov.uk/ WA 209 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 210

Russia Schools: Drinks Question Question Asked by Lord Hylton Asked by Lord Storey To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment plan to discuss with the government of Russia the they have made of the health and behavioural effects issues of freedom of expression and variety of of the sale of sugar-based drinks in schools. opinions in the media there, in the light of the [HL3604] proposed closure of the last independent television station in that country. [HL3599] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): The Department for Education has made no formal assessment of the health and Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): A law banning behavioural effects of the sale of sugar-based drinks commercial advertising on paid cable and satellite in schools. television channels in Russia will come into force on Widely available public health evidence is used to 1 January 2015. Commentators have suggested that underpin statutory school food standards, which bar this law will make it difficult for independent television the provision of drinks with significant quantities of station, Dozhd, to survive. Increasing pressure on sugar. independent journalists and news outlets in Russia, Revised standards come into force from January including Dozhd, is of great concern. We regularly 2015 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ make our concerns clear in bilateral interactions at all school-food). levels. Most recently, I raised concerns about restrictions on the freedom of expression in Russia with the Russian Ambassador on 25 November. In October, the Minister Schools: Registration of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my Question right honourable friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington) also raised concerns about this issue Asked by Lord Warner with the Russian Ambassador, highlighting the negative To ask Her Majesty’s Government what estimate impact of restrictive legislation on the freedom of the they have made of the number of unregistered media. schools in England; in which local authority area or Asked by Lord Scriven areas they are primarily located; how many unregistered schools have been compelled to register in each of To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light the past three years; and what action can be taken of the report from Human Rights Watch on the to close non-compliant schools and place those effect of the 2013 law banning gay “propaganda” in pupils affected in more appropriate learning Russia on the incidence of homophobic attacks environments. [HL3811] and on the reaction to crimes against LGBT citizens, what representations they have made to the government Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD): The Department of Russia about the status of LGBT citizens of that for Education does not have a fixed estimate of the country. [HL3757] number of unregistered schools in England or the areas in which they are primarily located. The number of institutions that the Department is aware of and The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth working with fluctuates on a continual basis as they Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): We have open, close or become registered. raised concerns about LGBT rights in Russia bilaterally In the last three years the Department has asked at a number of levels since the law banning the promotion 33 unregistered schools to register. There were 9 requests of “non-traditional sexual relations” among minors in 2012; 16 in 2013 and 8 in 2014. was passed in June 2013. Most recently, the Minister It is a criminal offence to operate an unregistered for Europe discussed concerns about the protection of school. Where a school refuses to register, the Department LGBT people in Russia with the Russian Ambassador works with the police and Ofsted to pursue a prosecution. on 18 December. He expressed deep disquiet at the The Department also works with the local authority findings of the Human Rights Watch report and the to ensure that children are placed in more appropriate impact of the law on the LGBT community in Russia. settings. FCO officials also raised the safety of participants at LGBT events with the Russian authorities in November. FCO officials in Russia meet regularly with LGBT Social Security Benefits activists and attend LGBT events, such a Queerfest Question and the Side-by-Side Film Festival, to provide support. Asked by Baroness King of Bow This year we are supporting the operation of a counselling hotline for the LGBT community in Russia, as well as To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many a capacity building project for Russian LGBT and what proportion of those affected by the benefit campaigners. We also supported the Russian Open cap since its introduction are in receipt of (1) Games in February, a five day international sporting Employment Support Allowance, (2) Income Support, event organised by the Russian LGBT Sports Federation. and (3) Carer’s Allowance. [HL3876] WA 211 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 212

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Sports: Tickets for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud) (Con): The latest official statistics on the benefit cap can be found at: Question https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/benefit- Asked by Lord Moynihan cap-number-of-households-capped-to-august-2014 To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action These statistics do not contain benefit type information. they are taking in the Consumer Rights Bill to A suite of evaluation was published on 15 December ensure that sports fans buying tickets through 2014. This evaluation made estimates of the proportion secondary markets have a right to basic information of capped households in scope for the cap who were in about the seat and row they have on their ticket for receipt of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), Income Support a sporting event; whether they consider that fans (IS), Employment Support Allowance (ESA) or other should have a right to know the original face value benefit types over time. The evaluation uses a different of a ticket; and whether they consider that they methodology to the Official Statistics and does not should have an opportunity to ascertain whether provide a cumulative count of numbers which is in line the ticket is genuine by being able to review essential with Official Statistics. In July 2014 (the most recent details on the ticket with the box office. [HL3650] data used in the evaluation), estimates found 23 per cent of capped claimants were in receipt of ESA; 45 per cent of capped claimants were in receipt of IS; The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department and 9 per cent were in receipt of another benefit type, for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) of which modelling suggests around 1,400 households (Con): As the Consumer Contracts (Information, had at least one Carer’s Allowance claimant. Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 Further information can be found at: and associated guidance make clear. The provision of certain information on tickets offered for sale to the https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ public is an existing requirement for traders (including benefit-cap-evaluation “for a ticket associated with a particular reserved seat https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ (e.g. Seat 1, Row A) the seat number”). benefit-cap-review-of-the-first-year However, since Report Stage I have been discussing these issues with Ministerial colleagues and interested parties, and will continue to do so, in order to ensure the genuine concerns of fans and ticket sellers are Social Services: Training addressed. Question Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough St Helena To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the Question total budget allocated by each appropriate department Asked by Lord Jones of Cheltenham to support the education and training of non-regulated care staff in each of the last three years. [HL3523] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress has been made in securing direct air access to St Helena. [HL3623] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Information on the total The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department expenditure on education and training of the adult for International Development (Baroness Northover) social care workforce is not available centrally. (LD): The UK Government is providing support to It is the responsibility of individual social care the air service procurement process that is currently employers to ensure their staff are appropriately trained underway and run by the St Helena Government. and competent to carry out their role. The Department of Health has supported employers to train their staff through the sponsorship of Skills for Care, the Social Stamp Duty Land Tax Care Institute for Excellence (SCIE) and the National Skills Academy for Social Care. Question Funding to develop the social care workforce (both Asked by Lord Christopher regulated and non-regulated) has been made available to these organisations as follows: To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effect of the changes in the Financial Year £ million rate of the stamp duty on the prices of houses worth less than £1 million. [HL3595] 2012-13 £27.8 2013-14 £31.3 2014-15 £30.7 The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Notes: Deighton) (Con): The reform to Stamp Duty Land Tax Figures include some social work programmes and in the case of on residential properties will have a limited impact on SCIE are funding for e-learning only. The Department does not house prices overall and this effect will be small compared hold figures for non-regulated care staff only. to overall fluctuations in house prices. WA 213 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 214

Stem Cells Student Wastage Question Question Asked by Lord Willis of Knaresborough Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to To ask Her Majesty’s Government , further to Written Answer by Earl Howe on 16 December the Written Answer by Earl Howe on 4 December (HL3361), what was the projected attrition rate for (HL3090), whether the Human Fertilisation and each Higher Education Institution expressed as a Embryology Authority’s Scientific and Clinical percentage of starters for student nurses in each of Advances Advisory Committee and its Licence the last three years for which information is Committee will provide their own assessment of available. [HL3808] the journal articles concerned in order to ensure that the continued use of embryos is necessary or The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department desirable for the specified principal purposes; how of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): Health Education England they consider the feasibility of treating degenerative does not hold the information in the format requested. conditions such as those listed in Annex D of the mitochondrial donation consultation document might be affected by the findings in the aforementioned journal articles; for how long the research project Sudan concerned has been investigating the use of embryonic Question stem cells “to improve the outcome of infertility treatments”; and in what ways their possible clinical Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool use in treating infertility might impel the Secretary To ask Her Majesty’s Government what of State to include things specified in the representations they have made to the International regulations which would not otherwise fall within Criminal Court’s Chief Prosecutor about her the definitions of “embryo”, “eggs”, “sperm” or announcement on 12 December that she was halting “gametes”. [HL3462] the Court’s investigations into war crimes in Darfur due to a lack of meaningful progress; and what The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department assessment they have made of the implications this of Health (Earl Howe) (Con): We are advised by the may have about the conduct the Sudanese authorities Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA) and about the reputation, standing and effectiveness that its Scientific and Clinical Advances Advisory of the International Criminal Court. [HL3830] Committee (SCAAC) regularly reviews the literature regarding alternative methods to derive human embryonic The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth stem cells so that the HFEA Licence Committee can Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con): The Prosecutor bear it in mind when considering research licence of the International Criminal Court (ICC) has said applications and renewals of licences, in order to that she is left with no choice but to hibernate investigative ensure that the continued use of embryos is necessary activities in Darfur. Although we have not made any or desirable for the specified principal purposes. SCAAC direct representations to the Prosecutor on this last considered a literature review on this topic on announcement, the UK continues to call on the 4 June 2014 and the paper is available on the HFEA Government of Sudan to meet its legal obligations to website at: http://www.hfea.gov.uk/9152.html cooperate with the ICC: the arrest warrants remain outstanding. With respect to the implications of this We are advised that the journal articles referred to announcement for the ICC, we continue to assess that by the noble Lord will be considered in the next review State cooperation, in particular with respect to process. enforcement of arrest warrants, is vital for the ICC to be effective in fulfilling its mandate to achieve justice We are also advised that the research project to for the victims of atrocities. I reinforced the UK’s which the noble Lord refers first expressly used the support for the ICC when I met the Prosecutor at the phrase “to improve the outcome of infertility treatments” Assembly of States Parties in New York on 12 December. in May 2013.

As the noble Lord is aware, the regulation making Syria power in section 3ZA of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990, as amended, is limited to Question enabling regulations to be made to allow an egg or Asked by Lord Hylton embryo to which a mitochondrial donation technique has been applied to be recognised as a permitted egg To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment or embryo and, therefore, suitable to be placed in a they have made of reports of an embargo against woman. There is no cure for mitochondrial disease. relief aid and supplies for the Kurdish majority The intended purpose of the draft regulations is to cantons of northern Syria; and what steps they are prevent the transmission of serious mitochondrial taking to ensure aid supplies reach those in need. disease from mother to child in the first instance. [HL3577] WA 215 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 216

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department homeless households will not have to wait as long for for International Development (Baroness Northover) settled accommodation, spending less time in temporary (LD): Delivering humanitarian assistance in Syria accommodation. Households now spend on average continues to pose significant challenges. The UK is seven months less in temporary accommodation than working closely with our partners on contingency at the start of 2010. planning and is continuing to push all parties to allow London Boroughs account for 93% of households the safe, unhindered delivery of aid. provided with temporary accommodation in another district. London Councils have previously said that the vast majority of out of borough placements are Tanks within London, or where that is not the case, are local Question to the placing Borough. Asked by Lord Trefgarne To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Temporary Accommodation: Greater main battle tanks, either serviceable or useable at London short notice, are presently available to the British Question Army. [HL3838] Asked by Baroness King of Bow The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): We do not plan to uprate the Housing Benefit Subsidy regime routinely comment on availability and levels of readiness for temporary accommodation to address any for individual capabilities as to do so would compromise difficulties experienced by London boroughs in operational security or disclose information which procuring accommodation for statutorily homeless could be of use to our adversaries. The Army has households at or below 90 per cent of the 2011 rate sufficient levels of main battle tanks to meet the levels of Local Housing Allowance. [HL3875] of readiness required under Defence Strategic Direction and as set out in the Defence Plan. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud) (Con): There are Temporary Accommodation no current plans to uprate the Local Housing Allowance Question rate applicable to Temporary Accommodation in Housing Benefit. Asked by Baroness King of Bow To ask Her Majesty’s Government why there has been an increase between September 2013 and Terrorism September 2014 in the number of statutorily homeless Question households placed in temporary accommodation in Asked by Lord Empey another local authority area. [HL3874] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department financial compensation was paid out in respect of for Communities and Local Government (Lord Ahmad criminal damage and criminal injuries as a result of of Wimbledon) (Con): This Government has invested terrorist activity in Great Britain for claims lodged over £500 million since 2010 to tackle all forms of between 1970 and 1998. [HL3862] homelessness and rough sleeping. The homelessness legislation in England provides one of the strongest The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord safety nets in the world for families with children and Faulks) (Con): The Criminal Injuries Compensation vulnerable people who become homeless through no Authority (CICA) does not hold this information. fault of their own. Until settled accommodation is Before 2012, CICA did not record the specific crime of available households will be placed in suitable temporary which their applicants had been a victim. This was accommodation. In considering suitability housing because payments are based primarily on the injuries authorities must, by law, consider whether the sustained rather than the crime of which they were a accommodation is affordable for the applicant, its victim. size, its condition, its accessibility and also its location. We have made it clear that no council should be sending tenants en masse to a different part of the country. Terrorism: Northern Ireland The numbers of households in temporary Question accommodation is well below the peak under the Asked by Lord Empey previous administration, when they hit 101,000 in 2004. Councils have a responsibility to move homeless To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much households into settled accommodation as quickly as financial compensation was paid out in respect of possible. That is why we changed the law so that criminal damage and criminal injury claims lodged councils can place families in decent and affordable between 1970 and 1998 as a result of the Troubles private rented homes more quickly. This will mean in Northern Ireland. [HL3861] WA 217 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 218

The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Contracts Information Cancellation and Additional Faulks) (Con): This matter is devolved in Northern Charges Regulations 2013; and what action they Ireland and is the responsibility of the Compensation intend to take in respect of the findings of any such Services (formerly known as the Compensation Agency), investigation. [HL3652] within the Northern Ireland Department of Justice. Compensation Services administers five statutory compensation schemes in Northern Ireland including Baroness Neville-Rolfe: The Government has no criminal injuries and criminal damage. plans specifically to investigate the number of tickets available on the secondary market for the Ashes test at Tickets Lords in 2015. Enforcement of The Consumer Contracts Questions (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Asked by Baroness Heyhoe Flint Regulations 2013 is a matter for Trading Standards and any consumers with concerns should approach To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment their local authority’s Trading Standards or Citizens they have made of the findings of the Metropolitan Advice via their helpline which is 03454 040506. Police in their February 2013 Report “Ticket Crime”, and in particular the suggestion that “the lack of legislation outlawing the unauthorised resale of tickets and the absence of regulation of the primary Tickets: Fraud and secondary markets encourages unscrupulous Question practices, a lack of transparency and fraud”. [HL3649] Asked by Baroness Heyhoe Flint To ask Her Majesty’s Government , further to Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con): The Metropolitan the remarks by Baroness Neville-Rolfe during the Police’s 2013 report “Ticket Crime” highlights that Report Stage of the Consumer Rights Bill on many of the methods that touts use to acquire tickets 19 November that “there is fraud in the ticket are already illegal, as is the act of fraudulently selling market; we do not dispute the numbers quoted fake or non-existent tickets. from the National Fraud Authority on this. In this I will continue to discuss the secondary ticket market case of ticket fraud, it reports £1.5 billion of losses” with ministerial colleagues and the relevant stakeholders, (HL Deb, col 489), whether they intend to take this includes discussion of options that will help consumers action in the Bill to address the scale of fraud on to make informed ticket purchases in a safe and secure consumers, in particular sports, music, theatre and environment. entertainment fans. [HL3648] Asked by Lord Moynihan To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department they have taken to achieve the core Department for for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) Business, Innovation and Skills mission statement (Con): There is existing legislation in place to protect objective of increasing transparency and empowering fans, as consumers, when they buy tickets. The Consumer customers in respect of sports fans, theatre-goers Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional and concert-goers seeking to secure reasonably priced Charges) Regulations 2013 and the Consumer Protection tickets from secondary ticket markets. [HL3651] from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 ensure consumers are given key information before they buy from a The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department trader. for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) These Regulations exist alongside the Fraud Act (Con): The Government has issued guidance relating 2006 which encompasses frauds involving tickets. to online ticket sales in the context of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Whilst we do not believe that further legislation is Charges) Regulations 2013. This guidance establishes required on the specific issue of ticket fraud, the how the requirements of these Regulations regarding Government is reflecting on the best way to respond transparency are interpreted for this market. This to the debate on tickets during Lords Report Stage of ensures that consumers purchasing tickets online from the Consumer Rights Bill. a trader are made aware of “their total price (including delivery costs and other charges)” and the “main characteristics”of the tickets, where “main characteristics” Unmanned Air Vehicles includes “the date and time of the event and the content of the event (e.g. who is performing)” and “for a ticket Question associated with a particular reserved seat (e.g. Seat 1, Asked by Lord Chidgey Row A) the seat number”. Asked by Lord Moynihan To ask Her Majesty’s Government how long it will take to procure an armed long-range anti- To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they submarine warfare system and maritime surveillance intend to investigate the number of tickets available capability, based on an unmanned aircraft, following for sale on the secondary market for the Ashes Test the completion of the 2015 Strategic Defence and at Lords in 2015 which comply with the Consumer Security Review. [HL3799] WA 219 Written Answers[6 JANUARY 2015] Written Answers WA 220

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry Delivery of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): Analysis Organisation Project Title Funding Agreed conducted to date suggests that unmanned systems will not be able to provide an armed, long-range, Royal British Maurice House Dementia £2,556,705 anti-submarine warfare capability in the near to medium Legion Wing First Choice Veterans Accommodation £2.268 million term. Housing Pathway (Wales and the Association Borders) Blind Veterans UK Life Skills for Independent £1.25 million Vending Machines Living Question RAF Benevolent Kitchen and Garden £400,000 Fund Adaptations for Use by Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark Wheelchair-Dependent, Lifetime Disabled Veterans To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions Riverside ECHG Colchester Veterans £6 million they have had with the vending machine industry Accommodation Pathway regarding the introduction of new coins and the RBLI Project LIBOR £1.950 million costs to business it may entail. [HL3713] Erskine Erskine Lighting Project £550,000 Stoll/Riverside The Aldershot Veterans £8.5 million ECHG/Haig Accommodation Pathway The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Housing Trust Deighton) (Con): The Government launched a public consultation on 12 September 2014, which focused on The remainder will be announced in due course. the impacts to industry of introducing a new, highly secure £1 coin in 2017. The consultation process ran until 21 November 2014 and included discussions with a wide range of industry stakeholders. The Government Vocational Guidance is currently analysing the responses to the consultation Question and will respond in due course. Asked by Lord Storey To ask Her Majesty’s Government , further to Veterans: Housing the statement by the Secretary of State for Education, Question Nicky Morgan MP, on 10 December (HC Deb, cols 891–3), what was the tendering process for the Asked by Lord Rogan transformation of the National Careers Service To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to into the proposed National Careers Company. the Written Answer by Lord Astor of Hever on [HL3841] 3 December (HL2639), when and how the outstanding balance of the £100 million veterans accommodation The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools fund will be awarded. [HL3443] (Lord Nash) (Con): The new careers and enterprise company that my Rt hon. Friend, the Secretary of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry State for Education, announced on 10 December will of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con): I believe the not replace the National Careers Service. The National noble Lord is referring to the £40 million Veterans Careers Service does a different job. The new company Accommodation Fund as announced by my hon. Friend, will not itself be a direct delivery organisation. It will the Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans, work closely with the National Careers Service, which in February 2014. will continue to support adults and young people and As I advised in the answer I gave on 3 December help the company bring employers and schools together, 2014 (Official Report, column WA282) the entire £40 and it will work with a wide range of other organisations. million has now been allocated. Twelve of the projects have already been announced and these are detailed in the table below. Welfare Assistance Schemes Question Delivery Organisation Project Title Funding Agreed Asked by Baroness King of Bow Veterans Aid Refurbishment and £3 million To ask Her Majesty’s Government which extension to Veterans Aid hostel organisations responded to the consultation on Haig Housing Haig Housing Trust £8.6 million Local Welfare Assistance funding published on Trust Morden and Edinburgh 10 October. [HL3877] Infill Project Royal Naval Pembroke House Care & £112,270 Benevolent Trust Nursing Home Window The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Replacement for Communities and Local Government (Lord Ahmad Stoll Refurbishment of £246,199 of Wimbledon) (Con): The Government will publish a Bathrooms for Disabled summary of responses that have been received, early Veterans at Stoll in 2015. WA 221 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 222

Work Experience debt from the First World War; and to whom the repayments will be made. [HL3432] Question Asked by Lord Storey The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Deighton) (Con): The Chancellor of the Exchequer, To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans George Osborne, announced on 3 December that the they have to encourage and support the remuneration Government will redeem 3½% War Loan, thus repaying of internships. [HL3766] the vast majority of the nation’s First World War debt. Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD): The term “intern” is The Chancellor also announced that the Government not defined in any legislation: entitlement to the minimum will adopt a strategy to remove the other remaining wage depends on whether or not an individual is a undated gilts in the government’s debt portfolio, some worker. If an internship meets the legal definition of a of which have origins going back to the eighteenth worker, then they must be paid at least the minimum century, where it is deemed value for money to do so. wage from the start. Given the dependency on employment This announcement followed the Government’s status, it is vital that employers and workers understand decision on 31 October to redeem the much smaller how this is determined. 4% Consolidated Loan, the first planned repayment Last November, the Minister for Employment Relations of an undated gilt of this kind by government for launched a series of posters and an information video 67 years. The Debt Management Office also announced alongside 200 letters to employers to increase awareness on 17 December that 3½% Conversion Loan would be of employers’ and interns’ rights and responsibilities redeemed on 1 April 2015. After these redemptions, in relation to the National Minimum Wage. This was none of the £2.2bn worth of First World War debt followed by a Facebook campaign. The Facebook currently in the government’s debt portfolio will messages reached 160,000 young people and HMRC remain. are currently evaluating the impact of the letters sent The Treasury will redeem the outstanding £1.9 billion to employers. of debt from 3½% War Loan on Monday 9 March In addition, complaints from interns about non- 2015, and the 4% Consolidated Loan will be redeemed payment of the minimum wage are prioritised by on 1 February 2015. HMRC for investigation and HMRC will investigate every complaint made to the Pay and Work Rights The repayments on this debt will go to the holders Helpline. Any worker who believes that they are being of these bonds. The Treasury does not hold detailed paid below the minimum wage should call the helpline information on the identity of organisations or individuals on 0800 917 2368. who own gilts, however information on sectoral holdings Determining an individual’s employment status can of gilts is published on a quarterly basis by the Office be complicated; this is why the Business Secretary for National Statistics. The latest information on the announced a review of employment status in October breakdown of gilt holdings by sector, including a this year, to help ensure an employment status framework breakdown of non-UK resident holders of gilts by in the UK that meets the needs of everyone. This is an foreign central banks and other non-residents, is published internal review and will present findings to Ministers by the ONS in Section 5.2.10 of its quarterly United early next year. Kingdom Economic Accounts publication. We are only able to take this action today thanks to World War I: Debts the difficult decisions that this government has taken Question to get a grip on the public finances. The fact that we will no longer have to pay the relatively high rate of Asked by Lord Laird interest on these gilts means that most important of To ask Her Majesty’s Government what all, this decision represents great value for money for arrangements they are making to repay outstanding the taxpayer. Tuesday 6 January 2015

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Col. No. Col. Anti-corruption Plan ...... 47 No. Haulage: Road Tank Vehicle Compliance...... 58 Bovine TB...... 47 Independent Library Report...... 58 British Council Annual Report...... 49 Marriages: Non-religious Belief Organisations...... 59 Defence Support Group ...... 49 Mental Health and Policing...... 60 Departmental Work (Christmas Recess) ...... 51 Nuclear Deterrent Update ...... 61 EU: Balance of Competences Review...... 54 Office of the Public Guardian: Review of Supervision...... 61 European Explanatory Memoranda ...... 56 Reformed AS and A-Level Content...... 62 Former Members of the Armed Forces and the Criminal Justice System...... 56 School Breakfast Clubs (European Aid)...... 63

Future Reserves 2020 (External Scrutiny Team Report) .... 57 Transforming Rehabilitation...... 64

Tuesday 6 January 2015

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. Abortion...... 103 Banks: Pay ...... 115

Academies: Special Educational Needs...... 103 BBC World Service: North Korea...... 116

Accident and Emergency Departments...... 104 Blue Badge Scheme...... 116

Aggregates ...... 105 Boko Haram ...... 117

Aircraft Carriers ...... 106 British Council...... 117

Alcoholic Drinks ...... 107 British Nationality: Assessments...... 118

Alcoholic Drinks: Taxation...... 107 British Overseas Territories...... 119 Ambulance Services: City of Westminster...... 108 Burma...... 119 Anguilla...... 108 Cannabis...... 120 Antibiotics ...... 109 Care Homes: Fees and Charges...... 120 Antisubmarine Warfare ...... 111 Central African Republic...... 121 Armed Forces: Lagos...... 111 China...... 121 Asylum ...... 112 Clinical Priorities Advisory Group ...... 121 Asylum: Homosexuality ...... 113 Coastal Areas: Access...... 123 Asylum: Syria ...... 113 Congenital Abnormalities...... 123 Autism ...... 114 Construction: Recruitment ...... 124 Azerbaijan ...... 114 Convention on the Control and Marking of Articles of Bahrain...... 115 Precious Metals ...... 125

Bank Cards...... 115 Co-operatives...... 125 Col. No. Col. No. Corporation Tax: Northern Ireland ...... 126 Hearing Impairment: Children ...... 149

Counterfeit Manufacturing...... 126 Higher Education: Admissions ...... 150

Credit Rating ...... 127 HIV Infection ...... 150

Curriculum ...... 127 Honour Based Violence ...... 151

Cycling England ...... 128 House of Lords: Catering ...... 152

Cycling: Training ...... 128 Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis ...... 152

Defence: Procurement...... 128 Immigration...... 153

Developing Countries: Trade ...... 128 Immigration: Poland...... 153

Diabetes...... 129 Imports...... 154

Directors: Equal Opportunities...... 129 In Vitro Fertilisation ...... 156

Diseases ...... 130 Income Tax...... 158

Domestic Violence ...... 133 India ...... 158

Educational Exchanges...... 133 Influenza: Vaccination ...... 160

Elizabeth Cross ...... 134 Internment: Northern Ireland...... 160

Embassies ...... 134 Israel...... 161

Energy ...... 134 Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft...... 162

Entry Clearances: Nepal ...... 135 Jordan...... 162

Eritrea...... 135 Kenya ...... 163

EU Budget: Contributions...... 137 Learning Disability and Autism...... 163

European Arrest Warrants...... 137 Learning Disability: Health Services...... 163

European Commission...... 138 Learning Disability: Nurses ...... 164

European Protection Orders ...... 138 Leasehold ...... 165

European Union ...... 139 Libya ...... 165

Exclusion Orders ...... 139 Loans...... 165

Female Genital Mutilation ...... 139 Loans: Republic of Ireland ...... 166

Flour...... 142 Malaysia ...... 167

Forced Marriage Protection Orders ...... 142 Marine Protected Areas ...... 167

Foreign Investment in UK ...... 143 Mass Media: Competition ...... 168

Free Schools: Disability ...... 143 Medicine: Postgraduate Education ...... 168

Fuels: Prices...... 144 Mental Health Services...... 170

Future of the Home Care Workforce Commission ...... 144 Mental Illness: Police Custody...... 172

General Practitioners...... 145 Mesothelioma...... 173

General Practitioners: Peterborough...... 147 Middle East ...... 174

Gibraltar...... 147 Military Aircraft ...... 176

Government Departments: Disclosure of Information .... 147 Minimum Wage ...... 177

Government Departments: Pensions...... 148 Money Laundering: EU Action...... 177

Government Departments: Staff...... 148 Muscular Dystrophy: Drugs ...... 178

Health: Screening...... 149 National Insurance Contributions ...... 178 Col. No. Col. No. Naturalisation...... 179 Public Sector: Pay ...... 205

Neurology...... 179 Public Sector: Pensions ...... 205

New Towns ...... 180 Pupil Exclusions: Disability ...... 205

NHS England ...... 180 Qatar ...... 206

NHS England Specialised Commissioning Task Force .... 181 Rare Diseases Advisory Group ...... 206

NHS: Negligence ...... 182 Regeneration Investment Organisation ...... 207

Non-domestic Rates...... 183 Revenue and Customs: Northern Ireland...... 208

North Korea ...... 183 RSPCA...... 208

Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty ...... 187 Russia ...... 209

Nuclear Weapons...... 188 Schools: Drinks ...... 210

Nurses...... 189 Schools: Registration ...... 210

Nurses: North East...... 191 Social Security Benefits...... 210

Nurses: Training ...... 191 Social Services: Training ...... 211

Nutrition ...... 192 Sports: Tickets ...... 212

Occupied Territories ...... 193 St Helena ...... 212

Offences against Children: Rotherham...... 194 Stamp Duty Land Tax ...... 212

Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe..... 195 Stem Cells...... 213

Outdoor Education...... 195 Student Wastage ...... 214

Pakistan...... 196 Sudan...... 214 Syria ...... 214 Palestinians...... 196 Tanks...... 215 Parkinson’s Disease: Drugs...... 198 Temporary Accommodation...... 215 Pay...... 199 Temporary Accommodation: Greater London ...... 216 Pedestrian Crossings ...... 199 Terrorism ...... 216 Peers ...... 200 Terrorism: Northern Ireland ...... 216 Pensions: Tax Allowances ...... 201 Tickets ...... 217 Post Offices ...... 201 Tickets: Fraud...... 218 Prison Sentences ...... 202 Unmanned Air Vehicles...... 218 Prisons: Publications...... 202 Vending Machines ...... 219 Private Equity ...... 202 Veterans: Housing...... 219

Public Expenditure ...... 203 Vocational Guidance...... 220

Public Expenditure: Northern Ireland ...... 203 Welfare Assistance Schemes...... 220

Public Footpaths...... 204 Work Experience...... 221

Public Sector: Car Allowances ...... 204 World War I: Debts...... 221 NUMERICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. [HL3337] ...... 134 [HL3370] ...... 194

[HL3368] ...... 194 [HL3404] ...... 202 Col. No. Col. No. [HL3413] ...... 194 [HL3513] ...... 149

[HL3415] ...... 166 [HL3514] ...... 170

[HL3416] ...... 166 [HL3515] ...... 170

[HL3417] ...... 165 [HL3516] ...... 170

[HL3418] ...... 165 [HL3517] ...... 171

[HL3419] ...... 166 [HL3518] ...... 120

[HL3420] ...... 166 [HL3519] ...... 182

[HL3421] ...... 127 [HL3520] ...... 203

[HL3422] ...... 156 [HL3521] ...... 168

[HL3424] ...... 201 [HL3522] ...... 170

[HL3432] ...... 222 [HL3523] ...... 211

[HL3443] ...... 219 [HL3525] ...... 129

[HL3452] ...... 140 [HL3534] ...... 137

[HL3453] ...... 141 [HL3542] ...... 195

[HL3454] ...... 139 [HL3543] ...... 160

[HL3455] ...... 141 [HL3544] ...... 192

[HL3456] ...... 141 [HL3545] ...... 192

[HL3457] ...... 133 [HL3546] ...... 192

[HL3459] ...... 160 [HL3547] ...... 192

[HL3462] ...... 213 [HL3548] ...... 149

[HL3465] ...... 145 [HL3549] ...... 149

[HL3470] ...... 115 [HL3550] ...... 149

[HL3474] ...... 148 [HL3552] ...... 130

[HL3475] ...... 202 [HL3553] ...... 131

[HL3476] ...... 199 [HL3554] ...... 202

[HL3477] ...... 205 [HL3555] ...... 203

[HL3478] ...... 148 [HL3556] ...... 126

[HL3483] ...... 112 [HL3557] ...... 162

[HL3489] ...... 151 [HL3565] ...... 115

[HL3490] ...... 151 [HL3572] ...... 166

[HL3491] ...... 151 [HL3573] ...... 166

[HL3492] ...... 151 [HL3574] ...... 166

[HL3501] ...... 183 [HL3577] ...... 214

[HL3503] ...... 208 [HL3579] ...... 208

[HL3505] ...... 144 [HL3580] ...... 208

[HL3507] ...... 144 [HL3581] ...... 208

[HL3509] ...... 138 [HL3582] ...... 208

[HL3511] ...... 134 [HL3587] ...... 153 Col. No. Col. No. [HL3590] ...... 162 [HL3645] ...... 135

[HL3591] ...... 162 [HL3646] ...... 142

[HL3592] ...... 126 [HL3647] ...... 142

[HL3593] ...... 158 [HL3648] ...... 218

[HL3595] ...... 212 [HL3649] ...... 217

[HL3596] ...... 177 [HL3650] ...... 212

[HL3598] ...... 174 [HL3651] ...... 217

[HL3599] ...... 209 [HL3652] ...... 218

[HL3600] ...... 121 [HL3655] ...... 119

[HL3601] ...... 168 [HL3656] ...... 203

[HL3602] ...... 196 [HL3662] ...... 164

[HL3603] ...... 124 [HL3663] ...... 172

[HL3604] ...... 210 [HL3664] ...... 172

[HL3607] ...... 188 [HL3665] ...... 163

[HL3608] ...... 187 [HL3666] ...... 160

[HL3609] ...... 187 [HL3667] ...... 163

[HL3610] ...... 187 [HL3669] ...... 173

[HL3611] ...... 188 [HL3670] ...... 111

[HL3619] ...... 108 [HL3675] ...... 138

[HL3620] ...... 108 [HL3678] ...... 154

[HL3621] ...... 109 [HL3679] ...... 154

[HL3622] ...... 119 [HL3680] ...... 154

[HL3623] ...... 212 [HL3681] ...... 155

[HL3624] ...... 161 [HL3682] ...... 174

[HL3625] ...... 161 [HL3683] ...... 174

[HL3626] ...... 174 [HL3684] ...... 193

[HL3627] ...... 196 [HL3685] ...... 193

[HL3631] ...... 115 [HL3687] ...... 128

[HL3632] ...... 143 [HL3688] ...... 128

[HL3633] ...... 207 [HL3689] ...... 205

[HL3634] ...... 134 [HL3690] ...... 180

[HL3635] ...... 125 [HL3693] ...... 148

[HL3636] ...... 125 [HL3694] ...... 204

[HL3637] ...... 125 [HL3695] ...... 120

[HL3638] ...... 114 [HL3696] ...... 167

[HL3639] ...... 178 [HL3697] ...... 147

[HL3640] ...... 206 [HL3699] ...... 199

[HL3644] ...... 129 [HL3700] ...... 200 Col. No. Col. No. [HL3701] ...... 200 [HL3748] ...... 106

[HL3702] ...... 195 [HL3749] ...... 176

[HL3703] ...... 137 [HL3750] ...... 176

[HL3705] ...... 135 [HL3751] ...... 176

[HL3706] ...... 206 [HL3752] ...... 177

[HL3707] ...... 167 [HL3753] ...... 157

[HL3708] ...... 183 [HL3754] ...... 157

[HL3709] ...... 184 [HL3755] ...... 184

[HL3711] ...... 105 [HL3756] ...... 185

[HL3712] ...... 105 [HL3757] ...... 209

[HL3713] ...... 219 [HL3758] ...... 201

[HL3714] ...... 125 [HL3759] ...... 118

[HL3715] ...... 204 [HL3761] ...... 118

[HL3716] ...... 123 [HL3762] ...... 109

[HL3717] ...... 104 [HL3763] ...... 110

[HL3718] ...... 104 [HL3764] ...... 110

[HL3720] ...... 179 [HL3765] ...... 110

[HL3721] ...... 175 [HL3766] ...... 221

[HL3722] ...... 197 [HL3767] ...... 133

[HL3723] ...... 175 [HL3769] ...... 117

[HL3724] ...... 178 [HL3772] ...... 103

[HL3725] ...... 119 [HL3773] ...... 205

[HL3726] ...... 117 [HL3774] ...... 206

[HL3727] ...... 163 [HL3775] ...... 104

[HL3728] ...... 121 [HL3776] ...... 104

[HL3729] ...... 128 [HL3777] ...... 144

[HL3730] ...... 136 [HL3779] ...... 127

[HL3731] ...... 161 [HL3781] ...... 136

[HL3732] ...... 161 [HL3782] ...... 137

[HL3733] ...... 197 [HL3785] ...... 132

[HL3734] ...... 165 [HL3786] ...... 146

[HL3735] ...... 181 [HL3787] ...... 147

[HL3736] ...... 182 [HL3788] ...... 146

[HL3737] ...... 207 [HL3789] ...... 146

[HL3738] ...... 131 [HL3790] ...... 150

[HL3739] ...... 131 [HL3792] ...... 142

[HL3740] ...... 132 [HL3793] ...... 123

[HL3747] ...... 106 [HL3794] ...... 123 Col. No. Col. No. [HL3795] ...... 114 [HL3830] ...... 214

[HL3796] ...... 114 [HL3831] ...... 186

[HL3797] ...... 116 [HL3832] ...... 186

[HL3799] ...... 218 [HL3833] ...... 113

[HL3800] ...... 128 [HL3837] ...... 152

[HL3802] ...... 176 [HL3838] ...... 215

[HL3803] ...... 139 [HL3839] ...... 158

[HL3804] ...... 189 [HL3840] ...... 103

[HL3805] ...... 190 [HL3841] ...... 220

[HL3806] ...... 189 [HL3843] ...... 107

[HL3807] ...... 191 [HL3844] ...... 191

[HL3808] ...... 214 [HL3847] ...... 159

[HL3809] ...... 150 [HL3848] ...... 159

[HL3810] ...... 111 [HL3849] ...... 122

[HL3811] ...... 210 [HL3850] ...... 198

[HL3812] ...... 180 [HL3851] ...... 198

[HL3813] ...... 175 [HL3853] ...... 122

[HL3814] ...... 197 [HL3854] ...... 122 [HL3855] ...... 198 [HL3815] ...... 197 [HL3856] ...... 198 [HL3816] ...... 153 [HL3860] ...... 113 [HL3817] ...... 108 [HL3861] ...... 216 [HL3818] ...... 200 [HL3862] ...... 216 [HL3819] ...... 107 [HL3863] ...... 165 [HL3820] ...... 107 [HL3866] ...... 178 [HL3821] ...... 107 [HL3867] ...... 139 [HL3823] ...... 179 [HL3870] ...... 152 [HL3824] ...... 118 [HL3871] ...... 152 [HL3825] ...... 118 [HL3872] ...... 153

[HL3826] ...... 179 [HL3874] ...... 215

[HL3827] ...... 158 [HL3875] ...... 216

[HL3828] ...... 185 [HL3876] ...... 210

[HL3829] ...... 116 [HL3877] ...... 220 Volume 758 Tuesday No. 79 6 January 2015

CONTENTS

Tuesday 6 January 2015 Retirement of a Member: Lord Jenkin of Roding...... 243 Questions Children’s Privacy ...... 243 Health: Diesel Engine Pollution...... 245 Chilcot Inquiry ...... 248 UN Security Council: Israel and Palestine ...... 250 Social Action, Responsibility and Heroism Bill Third Reading ...... 252 National Insurance Contributions Bill Report...... 262 House of Lords Motion to Take Note ...... 270 Written Statements...... WS 47 Written Answers...... WA 103