Department of Homeland Security Appropriations for 2020 Hearings

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2020

HEARINGS BEFORE A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION

SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY LUCILLE ROYBAL-ALLARD, California, Chairwoman HENRY CUELLAR, Texas CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee C. A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland STEVEN M. PALAZZO, Mississippi DAVID E. PRICE, North Carolina DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida JOHN H. RUTHERFORD, Florida GRACE MENG, New York PETE AGUILAR, California NOTE: Under committee rules, Mrs. Lowey, as chairwoman of the full committee, and Ms. Granger, as ranking minority member of the full committee, are authorized to sit as members of all subcommittees. DAREK NEWBY, MICHAEL S. HERMAN, ROBERT JOACHIM, KRIS MALLARD, KARYN RICHMAN, and ELIZABETH LAPHAM Subcommittee Staff

PART 3 DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY Page Fiscal Year 2020 Budget Hearing—Federal Emergency Management Agency ...... 1 Fiscal Year 2020 Budget Hearing—Department of Homeland Security ...... 73 Fiscal Year 2020 Hearing—Cybersurity and Infrastructure Security Agency ...... 231 U.S. Customs and Border Protection—Border Parol Appropriations for 2020 ...... 277 Oversight Hearing—U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement ...... 323 (

Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations

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FEMA DHS CISA USCBP USICE

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HEARINGS BEFORE A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION

Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 38–921 WASHINGTON : 2020

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SHALANDA YOUNG, Clerk and Staff Director

(II)

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TUESDAY, APRIL 30, 2019. FISCAL YEAR 2020 BUDGET HEARING—FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY WITNESS HON. PETER GAYNOR, ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL EMER- GENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY

Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. The Subcommittee on Homeland Security will come to order. I welcome everyone to today’s hearing on the fiscal year 2020 budget proposal for the Federal Emergency Man- agement Agency. Administrator Gaynor, welcome back. I would like to begin by thanking FEMA for its work in assisting Californians recovering from last year’s devastating wildfires in Butte, Los Angeles, and Ventura Counties. Last month, you testified on FEMA’s continuing efforts to support recovery from recent disasters. Since that hearing, Chairman Price and I had the opportunity to visit Puerto Rico and see some of those efforts firsthand. We also met with officials from both Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands as well as disaster survivors, and I thank your staff for facilitating and supporting those meetings. They helped to make them very, very successful. FEMA and its employees continue to lead our nation in recovery from the unprecedented disasters of the last few years. While it is true FEMA has taken positive steps towards recovery in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, it is clear there is still much more to be done to support the islands’ recoveries. Your agency is doing this work while at the same time implementing and developing guidance on dozens of new provisions created by the Disaster Recovery Reform Act of 2018. Every FEMA program and activity is critical. That is why I was disappointed that the administration proposes an overall cut of 8.5 percent to FEMA’s budget outside of the Disaster Relief Fund. The proposed cuts are particularly glaring in the Federal Assistance account, which has a proposed 20 percent reduction to the current year budget. With FEMA proposing a new National Priority Preparedness Grant program, the proposed cuts to existing programs are even larger. This includes, for example, a 37 percent cut to the State Homeland Security Grant Program and a 33 percent cut to the Urban Areas Security Initiative program. The budget also proposes to eliminate programs that train state and local homeland security (1)

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 2 officials, emergency managers, and first responders, including those at the Center for Homeland Defense and Security in my home state of California. Because states and urban areas rely heavily on FEMA grants to help improve and maintain their preparedness levels, the proposed cuts leave a gaping hole in your budget that we will need to find a way to fill. We will discuss these and other aspects of your budget proposal this afternoon. As you did in our hearing last month, I hope you can provide us with an update on recovery efforts from recent disasters. Again, I thank you for appearing before the subcommittee today. And I now turn to the Ranking Member Mr. Fleischmann for his opening remarks. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. And, again, I appreciate your working with the majority and the minority in this subcommittee. It is always a privilege to work with you. With votes coming, I am going to keep my remarks very brief. But, Mr. Gaynor, I want to thank you, sir, for coming back to our Subcommittee today. I thought our last hearing was extremely productive and I know a lot of my oversight questions were answered about the challenges FEMA is facing and the ongoing efforts to help those affected by recent storms. I also wish to thank not only you but your very attentive and cooperative staff. It has been a pleasure working with you all. Last time we met, my state, the great state of Tennessee, was coming out of some terrible flooding. The affected counties did receive some funds but we are still cleaning up and many families are still working on resolving damages to homes and businesses. I appreciate everything that FEMA is doing to help our citizens and I respectfully urge you to keep working with our state as we continue working with our localities to repair these damages. Today, we are here to discuss fiscal year 2020. I am sure you have heard a lot about your proposals from your state and local partners. We hear from them, too. And I think we are probably going to have some of the same questions about your budget request. I look forward to your testimony today, sir. And with that, Madam Chairman, I yield back my time. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Gaynor, we look forward to your testimony and we will submit the full text of your testimony for the record. Mr. GAYNOR. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Roybal-Allard, Rank- ing Member Fleischmann and members of the subcommittee. My name is Pete Gaynor and I am the acting administrator of FEMA. On behalf of Acting Secretary McAleenan and the Administra- tion, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to discuss FEMA’s fiscal year 2020 budget and now it supports the execution of the Agency’s strategic plan. Today, FEMA remains steadfast in its commitment to support the needs of disaster survivors. We continue to work tirelessly to support state, local, tribal and territorial partners before, during and after disasters. We have overcome many challenges, and we

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 3 have gained invaluable knowledge which we have incorporated into our strategy going forward. Today, I would like to discuss FEMA’s budget in terms of the goals and objectives of the Agency’s strategic plan. This plan seeks to unify and further professionalize emergency management across the Nation, and helps drive both short and long-term funding decisions. The plan establishes three strategic goals for FEMA. First, build a culture of preparedness; second, ready the nation for catastrophic disasters; and finally, reduce the complexity of FEMA. Every segment of society from individual to government, industry to philanthropy, must be encouraged and empowered to prepare for the inevitable impacts of future disasters. Building a culture of preparedness within our communities will allow the nation to significantly reduce the risk before the next disaster. The budget requests $2.3 billion in preparedness and mitigation grants to help achieve that goal. In 2018, Congress took significant steps to support FEMA’s efforts with the passage of the Disaster Recovery Reform Act, or ‘‘DRRA’’. This transformational legislation will assist the nation in reducing risks and increasing preparedness in a more meaningful and tangible way. The budget request funds to begin implementing the key mitigation-related elements of DRRA. While we will never be able to eliminate all risk, we must reduce known risks as much as possible. FEMA continues to work with the communities and insurers to close the insurance gap and dou- ble insurance coverage across the nation. Managing risk to insurance, including the National Flood Insur- ance Program, or NFIP, helps communities to recover faster from disasters and reduces overall costs for taxpayers. The budget includes $5.1 billion to support operating the NFIP. FEMA’s second goal is to ready the nation for catastrophic disasters. Catastrophic disasters include low and no-notice incidents which can overwhelm the government at all levels and threaten national security. They are life-altering incidents for those impacted, causing a high number of fatalities and widespread destruction. Focusing Federal efforts and resources on preparing for catastrophic events is critical to ensure that the response recovery missions are successfully executed. The budget includes $14.1 billion for the disaster relief fund to support response and recovery operations. The budget request also includes $1.7 million and 25 positions to support the expansion of FEMA Integration Teams (FIT). These teams, which are embedded full time into state emergency management agencies, are critical to improve customer service and provide targeted technical assistance to help build capacity and address capability gaps before the next catastrophic disaster. Cur- rently, FEMA has FIT teams embedded in 18 states with more to follow. Communications and pre-positioned commodities are also critical to readying the nation. We saw this in Puerto Rico where FEMA deployed its Mobile Emergency Response Support resources with mobile satellite, radio, and logistics support services to provide command and control communications, situational awareness, and program delivery to overcome communications challenges. The

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Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Gaynor, since you last appeared before the subcommittee, there have been several new disaster declarations including for the catastrophic floods in the Midwest and severe storms and tornadoes in the south. Can you provide us with an update on those disasters and the efforts being made to support the recovery of the affected communities? Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, ma’am. I had the honor to visit Iowa a couple of weeks ago with the Vice President to see firsthand the devastation in both Nebraska and Iowa. Water is still on the ground today. We visited a farmer whose family has been living on the property for over 110 years and it was the worst flooding the family had seen since the 1950s. Devastation from flooding is sobering. All the impacted states, I think there are three or four so far, have applied for disaster assistance. We are out there today registering disaster survivors to make sure that we can get the maximum resources to those impacted. We continue to do this across the country not only with flooding, but also in Alabama with tornadoes. We have 52 open disasters today, delivering disaster response to survivors from wild fires, floods, tornadoes, and earthquakes, quite a wide expanse of our support to the survivors in those disasters that need our help today. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. As I mentioned in my opening statement, the president’s budget calls for cuts of more than 20 percent to FEMA’s preparedness training and grant programs which helps states and communities prepare for natural disasters, terrorist attacks and other high consequence events. It does not appear that the risks of such events have waned. Has FEMA determined that the risk warrants a reduced investment in preparedness and if not, can you explain the basis for the proposed reductions? Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, ma’am. We have had a historically constrained operations support budget over the years and, frankly, there are only a few places to cut. And when we look across all the potential programs or resources that we provide—grants is one of those—and the way we look at it is preparedness is a shared responsibility from the Federal government to the state to the local. Over the past 10 or 12 years, through DHS and FEMA, we have funded at least $50 billion in Preparedness grants. We brought down a significant amount of risk. Some of those grants have turned over time to entitlement grants and really haven’t kept up with emerging threats. So, we think it is fair and equitable to ask states and locals to offload some of that responsibility for preparedness on to their own budgets so we can deliver and keep up with new emerging threats and keep up with innovation. So, again, when it is a constrained budget, it is hard to find or it is hard to reduce the impact on some of this. And I know firsthand, I was a local and state emergency manager. I know how much local and state directors depend on grants.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 12 But, again, we believe that preparedness across the country is a shared responsibility. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. I will be asking another question a little bit later on that highlights the fact that states and local governments do contribute their own money towards these programs. But if you could provide the subcommittee a list of where you think these entitlement grants exist and the fact that there actually is necessarily not a need for them any longer. Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, ma’am. We will do that. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Fleischmann. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Ms. Roybal-Allard. Actually you asked a question I was going to ask so thank you so much, I appreciate that. That is for efficiency purposes. I will just ask Mr. Gaynor some basic questions. When you were the director of the Rhode Island Emergency Man- agement Agency, which Federal grants were most important to you in maintaining and building capabilities, sir? Mr. GAYNOR. I think for a local emergency management, the EMPG or the Emergency Management Performance Grant. We give those out to the 50 states and territories each year. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. And what values in that capacity did you find in the EMPG program, sir? Mr. GAYNOR. Basically, it supports operations. If you had some difficulty sourcing or funding personnel through your local or state appropriated budget, EMPG helps you with that. It also helps you with preparedness initiatives. If there is something that you didn’t have in your budget from the state, the EMPG gives you a little more bandwidth to deliver those preparedness initiatives that are important to your local or state program. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. The new Disaster Recovery Reform Act provided authorization for pre-disaster mitigation program. How is FEMA working with state emergency managers to shape this program and reduce vulnerabilities in the nation? Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, sir. First, I would like to thank Congress for helping us pass the DRRA. It is really transformational legislation on how we look at disasters. We know we are going to pay whatever amount of money a disaster cost us after the disaster. It really turns the tables on how we invest in pre-disaster mitigation before a disaster happens. Pre-disaster mitigation is not new to FEMA. It is not new to local or state directors across the country. We have a program today that has been in effect for many years called Pre-Disaster Mitiga- tion, roughly about $50 million a year across the country. We are in close coordination with our state directors. We have briefed, most recently, to the National Emergency Management As- sociation (NEMA) meeting that was held in Washington D.C. We are in a constant dialogue to make sure that we understand the needs on the street and we want to make sure that we incorporate those into our plan moving forward. It is an ongoing dialogue. Many of us are former directors; we understand there are certain issues that apply only to certain states. We want to make sure that we are thoughtful about building a plan that suits everyone’s needs.

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Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Mr. Gaynor then as a follow-up to that, what feedback has FEMA gotten from states on those efforts specifically? Mr. GAYNOR. I am not sure I can answer the specific feedback. I know that we are in dialogue with them. I would be happy to get with the program managers and see what kind of best practices that states have offered in the new program. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Is the Disaster Recovery Reform Act a comprehensive reform bill or do you see FEMA reaching out to author- izers to further refine or expand the legislation? Mr. GAYNOR. Right now there are 49 different sections of the DRRA that we are trying to understand. And I will go back to the Pre-Disaster Mitigation section, section 1234 where we can set aside 6 percent of disaster funds for pre-disaster mitigation. That is the one that we are trying to work on first and fastest to make sure we can get that out on the street. Our goal is to have it available for application in October of 2020. There are other sections of the DRRA that we are working on, post fire mitigation. We have our plate full in understanding the current legislation and until we get past all the sections that we are required to implement by law, I think we are good for right now. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. At your last hearing with this subcommittee, we talked a little about FEMA integration teams. It was actually interesting to learn that Tennessee is one of the 16 states with an existing team in our state office. Can you share how the FEMA integration team helped and facili- tated response in the recent Tennessee flooding? Mr. GAYNOR. I can’t talk about Tennessee exactly but I can tell in general we have numerous stories from disasters to exercises to training. We had the integration teams bring a new perspective, the Federal perspective, to close the gaps in state or local plans and make exercises more robust. As a matter of fact, I met with 15 managers last week and we think it is really a great initiative. We have gotten great feedback. And our goal is to have a FIT team in every state we support. And, again, we look for funding to make that happen in this fiscal year 2020 budget. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Administrator. And, Madam Chairman, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Cuellar. Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Administrator, the humanitarian crisis due to the influx of unaccompanied kids and families have created a burn on state and local jurisdictions including NGOS down there on the border. Back, I think, it was in 2014 I helped change the law here in appropriations to address some of those issues and then I think on July 13 of 2017, you all came out with an information bulletin that provided guidance for homeland security grants programs to be al- lowable for cause for reimbursements to those local communities that provide humanitarian care and relief to those unaccompanied kids and families—food, water, medicine, medical supplies, et cetera, et cetera. Earlier this year, DHS Secretary Nielsen reportedly said that the administration would treat this surge, the new group of people, like

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 14 a category 5 hurricane. My question is what is FEMA’s response to address this humanitarian relief for accompanied children and families just the fact that it has had an impact on local communities? I am from the border side, talking from personal knowledge there and talking to the folks and basically will communities be eligible for reimbursement via those homeland security grant programs for expenses that communities whether it is McAllen or Brownsville or NGOs, I mean, they are carrying the burden of this. So, I just want to see if I can get your thoughts on what you all can do taken in consideration that law that would change back in 2014 when the surge started. Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, sir. Right now this is not a Stafford Act emergency, so we are not using any disaster relief dollars to fund our support to CBP or ICE. So, it is not an emergency in that aspect. The grant part of it is typically in homeland security grants a majority of the money goes to backfill pay and overtime. If it is an eligible expense under the rules of those grants, they can use it. I would have to know the specifics about how they use it to make sure it is actually eligible. And I think the state directors or the State Administrative Agents (SAAs) will make sure that they use that money appropriately. Mr. CUELLAR. We should be surprised that in the state of Texas where we have done the majority on it since 2014 only $400,000 have been allocated to these local communities which is literally a drop in the bucket. It is not working. It is not really working the way we have set this up. So, I know they are going to call votes and I certainly want to give my other colleagues an opportunity. I would like to know if there is somebody here in your staff that we can follow-up on this because it is not working. $400,000 since 2014 is literally a drop in the bucket. Mr. GAYNOR. Sure. Mr. CUELLAR. So we would love to sit down with you and give you a little bit more time to digest this and then give us some of your thoughts. Mr. GAYNOR. Typically, sir, we give that money to a state and they run the program. Each state has different requirements, different initiatives and different priorities. And why the state has not been reimbursed, I would have to look into it. We don’t reim- burse those things directly. Mr. CUELLAR. Right. Mr. GAYNOR. It is really the state who is responsible for those grant programs. Mr. CUELLAR. Right. It goes to the state then. Mr. GAYNOR. But I would be happy to find out what some of the roadblocks are down there. Mr. CUELLAR. All right. Thank you. Mr. GAYNOR. You are welcome, sir. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Palazzo. Mr. PALAZZO. Thank you, Madam Chair.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 15 And Acting Administrator Gaynor, thank you for being here again. Last time we met, I brought up the pending expiration of NFIP on May 31. I think you said it has been about 40 plus extensions and we know every time we come up against the calendar deadline it makes a lot of communities that live on or near the water very nervous. It makes realtors, economic developers but most importantly homeowners who depend on the insurance to be able to insure their homes—64,000 NFIP policies, it is probably higher now since the last time we have talked because I know they continue to attract new policyholders. Could you just comment on the importance of NFIP not allowing the program to lapse but also maybe talk or either share your thoughts on getting with the private sector and coming up with maybe an all-hazards type solution so we can address this. And what is if anything FEMA doing to kind of work with the private sector to address NFIP. Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, sir. Thank you. If I can just put it into context though—insurance. FEMA has different disaster programs that we deliver to survivors. One of them is Individual Assistance (IA). The cap for Individual Assist- ance is about $34,500 for a number of different programs. If you look at Harvey in Texas, the average IA payout was $4,000. Not many people maxed out the $34,000 for whatever reason. If you look at the same disaster and how much we paid out for NFIP insurance to those that had insurance, it is $130,000. Would you rather have a check from FEMA for $4,000 or a check from NFIP for $130,000? I would imagine that most people are saying I want that check to make me as whole as possible and get me back in my home. Insurance is about protecting property, but it is also about saving lives, maintaining your livelihood, maintaining your neighborhoods and maintaining your communities and businesses. That is how we look at insurance. It needs to be overhauled. We really haven’t had a significant overhaul since the 1970s. It needs to be more affordable. It needs to be more transparent. It needs to really reflect risk. I don’t think the way we have policies right now reflect the risk where you live. We are trying to adapt to a new way of looking at insurance to make sure everyone understands how valuable insurance is as opposed to other things. Should we have a lapse? It will negatively impact home closings. It will negatively impact renewals. We don’t want that. We would like a reauthorization, a year-long reauthorization in an effort to work with Congress to really relook at NFIP and make sure it is affordable and transparent for everyone and reflects risk. It doesn’t do that today, therefore, we want to have a shot at reforming NFIP sooner rather than later. Mr. PALAZZO. Well, thank you, Acting Administrator Gaynor. I concur with your thoughts and I think maybe a year or 24 months allow Congress to really look at this and come up with some common sense reforms that protect the homeowner but also protect the taxpayer.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00015 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 16 With that, I will be sensitive with my time and I yield back. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Meng. Ms. MENG. Thank you, Madam Chair. I will just ask one question to be sensitive to my colleagues’ time as well. I wanted to also ask about Urban Areas Security Initiative which assists as you know high-threat, high-density urban areas for terrorism preparedness which is very important to my home state of New York. There are proposed cuts to both the Urban Areas Security Initiative, a decrease of $22.4 million and the State Homeland Security Grant Program decrease of $17.4 million. I represent a district in New York City which as you may know is a highly targeted city for terrorist attacks. In fiscal year 2018, 10 houses of worship just in my district alone received these much needed grants. How will FEMA ensure the safety of Americans in not compromised as a result of this decrease in funding? Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, ma’am. Thank you. In a tough budget for FEMA, it is hard to pick out savings that have little impact on resources that we deliver or preparedness or recovery and there are some hard choices to be made. Our O&S budget line has been flat for years. It doesn’t give us much flexibility in deciding what we can live with and what we can’t. One of those is grants. When it comes to grants, we look at it as a shared responsibility just like I am sure you have heard before that Emergency Management is like a four-legged stool where there is the Federal government, state and local, the individual and private and NGOs. All those legs have to be working together or have to be intact for the whole system to work. We believe that we have brought down a lot of risks, $50 billion over 12 years across the nation. The grants in some cases have not kept up with threat so we want to make sure that we are keeping up with emerging threats and redefining risk as we move along. I am not sure they do that exactly today. Again, we look at why we cut grants and the answer, from my point of view, is that we share this responsibility at all levels from the Federal government to the state and the local. I hope that answers your question. Ms. MENG. Yes. So, I mean, what are some of the higher priorities? It is stated in the 2020 budget justification, what are the higher priorities? Mr. GAYNOR. One of them is our legacy IT system, 40 years old. We haven’t really kept pace with modernizing that. And that directly impacts how we deliver disaster resources to survivors. We have our Grants Management Modernization program which is trying to put together 10 and 12 different grant platforms. Again, it directly impacts how we deliver preparedness and disaster grants across the country. Some of these things we haven’t paid attention to for the long haul and, frankly, we are running out of time. We need to address it in a more significant way. Ms. MENG. Thank you. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Newhouse. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 17 Thank you, Administrator Gaynor, for being here with us this afternoon. I appreciate your time and commitment to FEMA and protecting our citizens. I represent one of our great national laboratories, the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory which as you know, DHS along with DOE utilize for a lot of different things. For example, I think there is a predictive modeling that was developed at PNNL to understand flood risk for hurricane landfalls and just more recently using that model to understand drying time of affected areas so that that would allow first responders to prioritize their recovery efforts so, a lot of different things that have been beneficial to FEMA’s efforts. And my question in the interest of time—thank you, Madam Chair—is just to hear from you your perspective on how you plan to continue using and engaging in the labs to ensure that DHS makes the best use of their unique expertise that is available. Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, sir. We have used the lab in some really cutting edge modeling to make sure that we understand risk and threat. We have used some of that modeling to help us understand the impact of inland flooding and hurricanes, and we continue to delve into how we can better understand those risks and threats through modeling. I think part of it is how we save money doing that and how we can be smarter in the way we deliver disaster resources. More importantly, how do we build a better defense with Pre-Disaster Mitigation. So, if you understand the threat—and now we have this great program on the DRRA, how to deal with pre-disaster—that modeling is very helpful to design a program that makes a more significant impact than we have had the opportunity to do before. Again, really a great program. We support it, and we derive a lot from it. It is important to us to keep that partnership going. Mr. NEWHOUSE. So, it helps on both sides, the preemptive efforts as well as coming to the rescue after an event. Mr. GAYNOR. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. I look forward to working with you. Mr. GAYNOR. Thank you, sir. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Aguilar. Mr. AGUILAR. I appreciate the courtesy of my colleagues allowing me to ask a question. Mr. Newhouse and Palazzo, that is for you. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Acting Administrator, in regards to surge capacity, it appears FEMA obviously had some issues responding to multiple ex- treme events—Harvey, Irma and Maria—within weeks apart. Can you tell me proactively what are some of the steps FEMA is taking to enhance surge capacity in preparation efforts, obviously, we have hurricane season months away. What are we doing now to prepare for that? Mr. GAYNOR. Yes, sir. Hurricane season is 31 days away—not that we are counting. First of all, when you look back at the 2017–2018 hurricane and wildfire seasons, FEMA was not designed for that end of the spec- trum. I think you have heard my predecessor say before that a big-

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VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00071 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 88 here 38921A.059 VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00072 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS TUESDAY, APRIL 30, 2019. FISCAL YEAR 2020 BUDGET HEARING—DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY WITNESSES HON. KEVIN MCALEENAN, ACTING SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY HON. CHIP FULGHUM, ACTING UNDER SECRETARY FOR MANAGE- MENT, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. The committee will now come to order. Today, we welcome Kevin McAleenan, the acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, along with Chip Fulghum, the acting Undersecretary for Management. Thank you both for being here this morning. Mr. Secretary, the past several weeks have been eventful for you and the department. You have had your hands full as the CBP Commissioner, and now you are responsible for ensuring the smooth functioning of the entire Department of Homeland Security. Your service as a career CBP employee brings an important credibility to your new position. Right now, this credibility is sorely needed, and it will be severely tested as you navigate your way through extremely controversial waters. Most of today’s hearing will likely focus on immigration enforcement and the challenges at the border. Therefore, let me take a moment to recognize the dedication and the commitment of the men and women of the Department of Homeland Security who carry out the other vital missions that help protect the American public and our country from a wide range of threats. This includes DHS personnel who assist Americans following natural disasters, defend against cyber attacks, secure our airports, and investigate child exploitation and trafficking. The subcommittee will continue to work with you to ensure they have the resources that they need to carry out their important missions. This weekend’s horrific terrorist attacks targeting religious mi- norities were a reminder that we must remain vigilant against the growing threat of domestic radicalization. I note that you recently announced the establishment of an Of- fice of Targeted Violence and Terrorism Prevention. This office will help states and local communities counter the broad array of violent extremism in this country, including the growing threat from white nationalist groups. With regards to immigration enforcement and the challenges that we face at the border, my hope is we can work together to find a balance between protecting our borders and preserving our Amer- ican values, which so far have been lacking in this administration. As we ensure the integrity of our borders, we must also treat immigrants with dignity and due process. And as we enforce immigra- (73)

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00073 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 74 tion law, we must also use the discretion inherent in the law to prioritize enforcement efforts. We must also help facilitate the ability to enter the United States through legal means while understanding the devastating circumstances that often compel desperate people to seek safe haven any way they can. Above all, we must not demonize those who, like so many of our ancestors, came to this country to seek a better life. A few weeks ago, I, along with several other members and staff, travelled to El Paso and San Diego to see CBP and ICE operations. What we witnessed, to say the least, was extremely disturbing. We saw families waiting to be processed who were kept for hours in the hot sun or in crowded, makeshift shelters. We saw dozens of single adults standing shoulder to shoulder in Border Patrol holding cells designed for only 10 to 12 people. I understand that the surge of migrant families is unprecedented, but it is not an excuse for the conditions that we saw. I am aware that you are working to improve those conditions, but people are suffering and improvements are not happening fast enough. Addressing the humanitarian crisis in short term is in part a resource challenge, but it is also a challenge that requires a commitment by your department to respect the rights of immigrants and to treat them humanely. Unfortunately, that is not what I and other members of Congress see during our many oversight visits. I hope we can continue to work together to ensure this challenge is met. For the long term, we will need to find solutions that provide migrants with real alternatives to making the dangerous journey north. In the meantime, while ensuring due process for migrants, the timeline for adjudicating immigration cases must be reduced. Simply making it harder to claim asylum in the United States is not the answer. Furthermore, the migrant protection protocols do not achieve the balance that we need and they are making it harder for migrants to seek asylum in the United States. And unfortunately, efforts to ensure the safety and civil rights of migrants so far appear to be only an afterthought. To make matters worse, just last night, the president directed you and the attorney general to adjudicate all asylum applications within 180 days, except in exceptional circumstances; to require a fee for asylum applications and a fee for asylum-seekers to receive work authorization; and to deny work authorization to asylum- seekers who cross between the ports of entry. Mr. Secretary, as the head of the Department of Homeland Secu- rity, you will set the tone and establish the rules that will guide the department in meeting our shared goals of protecting our homeland and protecting our American values. I look forward to working with you and the members of the subcommittee to fairly, justly, and humanely address the challenges at our borders, and the other many challenges facing the department across its many critical missions. The president’s memo is another tragic step in the wrong direction. Now, before turning to the acting secretary for his summary of his written statement, the full text of which will be put into the

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00074 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 75 hearing record, I would like to recognize our distinguished ranking member, Mr. Fleischmann, for any remarks he may have. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And for everyone involved, I do want to thank you for the tremendous courtesies and civil and cordial way that we have been able to work on these issues. There is a lot of common ground, and there are some bona fide differences, but I thank you for all these courtesies. Thank you, Mr. McAleenan and Mr. Fulghum, for being with us here today, for meeting with us on the Department of Homeland Security’s fiscal 2020 budget request. I also want to specifically, Mr. Secretary, thank you for stepping into this role and leading this department. There is a lot to consider in the entirety of the department’s budget. I am grateful that the chairwoman has held individual budget hearings with the individual agencies within the department as best as our schedule would allow. There is a lot of great work being done across the department. We have heard from the Coast Guard and the TSA. FEMA is later this afternoon, and CISA is tomorrow. We have had very informative meetings with ICE and CBP. It is clear that the people at the department are working every day to keep our country safe. Every leader from the department I have met with shares the same message. The people and their agencies are the most dedicated and committed to the mission of protecting our country. Please pass along our thanks for the work they are doing around the clock every day, sir. However, the situation we are seeing at our southwest border is really what is front and center these days. It is affecting the entire nation. It is pulling resources within the CBP, as we are seeing, with wait times at the various types of ports within the department. And I am sure that you are looking at reprogramming options, and I am sure there aren’t many, and across of all government, from also high priorities, it is straining the resources and abilities of the NGOs in our country and in Mexico. It was the pin in the revolving negotiations around the partial shutdown of our Federal government. I am hopeful that together—both sides of the aisle and both sides of the capital—we can come to an agreement and a solution. But this is a budget hearing. So focusing on the department’s budget request of almost $52 billion in net discretionary funding, I think there is many places where we can agree: resources for border security, technology, humanitarian aid, increases for cybersecurity and research, investment in the Coast Guard assets, and FTE investments to improve trade, travel, investigations, and enforcement. We all know the $5 billion requested for the physical border barrier will remain a challenge. We are up to it. Mr. Secretary, I think you have demonstrated a need for it. I look forward to your testimony on the department’s proposed investments and initiatives, and I thank you for being here. Madam Chairwoman, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Thank you, Mr. Fleischmann.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00075 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 76 And just a quick reminder to members that they will be called for questioning based on the seniority in which the hearing started. And also, please try and keep within the 5 minutes. We have a lot of questions. And I do appreciate the fact that the secretary has agreed to stay longer than the 2 hours that we originally had scheduled. And now I would like to turn to the chair of the full Appropria- tions Committee, Ms. Nita Lowey. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I would like to thank Chairwoman Roybal-Allard and Ranking Member Fleischmann for holding this hearing. The CHAIRWOMAN. And I thank you, Mr. Secretary, and our witnesses, for joining us today. The Department of Homeland Security’s mission to secure our nation from consistent and pervasive threats is not an easy one. And I understand that. We know this all too well in New York. To keep us safe, different components within DHS must effectively coordinate and cooperate, all while working closely with other Federal, State and, perhaps most importantly, local and tribal agencies. That is why the chaotic state of the Department of Homeland Se- curity is so troubling. It seems like the car is driving off the cliff with no one to take the wheel, although, I guess, Mr. Secretary, you are now the driver. Congratulations. It has even been reported that your predecessor, Secretary Nielsen, was so wary of angering President Trump that she tiptoed around addressing Russian hacking and interference in our elections so as not to ignite his no collusion, anti-Mueller ire. I must tell you, that issue keeps me awake at night, and I truly worry about it, and I hope it is a major focus of your work. I hope that when it comes to one of the biggest threats our country and democracy faces, you will focus on this with a laser beam. Your predecessor also instituted cruel and inhumane policies of ripping children from their families, which you helped to implement. I want to be very, very clear, and I think it is important that we understand this on both sides of the aisle today: Ensuring the integrity of our borders and enforcing immigration is difficult but necessary jobs, and we understand that. This administration’s politicization of border security and heartless obsession with aggressive immigration enforcement are un-American and unacceptable. And you have an opportunity to turn it around and work with the Congress to humanely and ethically secure our borders. And we understand that we have to work together in a bipartisan way to secure our borders. Turning to fiscal year 2020, the budget request asks for an out- rageous increase in ICE operations and support, including more than 1,000 additional ICE agents in support positions and a large increase in detention beds. These increases leave too much flexibility for ICE to support this administration’s overly aggressive interior enforcement policies.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00076 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 77 Democrats simply will not provide these dangerously high levels of detention for an agency that has remained opaque and whose enforcement tactics are unbalanced. ICE should prioritize removal efforts on those with serious criminal histories, not those who have lived and worked peacefully in our communities for decades or those who are fleeing unspeakable violence in hopes of safety and a better future. The budget also proposes a large cut to the preparedness grants programs, including a $214 million decrease for the Urban Areas Security Initiative, which assists high-threat, high-density urban areas where the consequences of attacks would be most catastrophic. That also includes a $193 million cut to the state Home- land Security Grant Program, which enhances local law enforcement’s ability to prevent and respond to acts of terrorism and other disasters. State and local jurisdictions like those in my district cannot effectively plan for the worst when support from their Federal partner is inconsistent or insufficient. These programs need adequate funding to keep our communities safe. This committee, I want to assure you, is eager to support the department’s essential and complex missions. But we cannot do that at the expense of state and local preparedness or our American values. So, Mr. Secretary, I look forward to a discussion today, and I thank you for being here. We will have a lively discussion, I am sure. Thank you very much. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. And now I would like to turn to the distinguished ranking member of the full committee, Ms. Granger. Ms. GRANGER. Thank you, Madam Chair—today to present the fiscal year 2020 budget for the Department of Homeland Security. You recently assumed the enormous responsibility as acting secretary of the department, but you are also assisted by a dedicated workforce working tirelessly to protect our nation. And I commend their efforts and your commitment to the department’s mission. In my home state of Texas, we have a very important relationship with neighbors to our south. In many border towns and cities, our history and our economy, our families and our culture are very intertwined. And I have traveled to the southern border many times during my lifetime. Unfortunately, we have a humanitarian and security crisis on our hands which I have been able to see for myself firsthand on two very recent trips to the border. The facts are undeniable and the strain on our system is unsustainable. There are record-breaking numbers of people, coming mainly from Central American countries, but also from places around the world. I was told on the last trip, 51 countries coming—people coming across our southern border, through Mexico to our border. Unauthorized border crossings are now at a 12-year high. You know that. More than 100,000 people come to the border. They came, 100,000 people in March alone, as compared to approximately 400,000 in all of last year. As more migrants claim asylum, the pressures on the system will continue to rise. Homeland security agencies have a staggering

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OPENING STATEMENT: ACTING SECRETARY MCALEENAN Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Chairwoman Roybal-Allard, Ranking Member Fleischmann, full committee Chairwoman Nita Lowey, and Ranking Member Kay Granger, I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today. It is a true honor to serve as the acting secretary and to represent the distinguished men and women of the Department of Homeland Security. In my view, DHS has the most compelling mission in government: to safeguard the American people, our homeland, and our values. As acting secretary, I intend to work with this committee and serve as an advocate for the men and women of the Depart- ment to ensure they have the resources they need to carry out critical missions on half of the American people. And today, I have the privilege of presenting to you the President’s fiscal year 2020 budget request for the Department of Homeland Security. The 2020 budget would strengthen the security of our nation through enhanced border security, immigration enforcement, cybersecurity, transportation security, counterterrorism, and resilience to disasters. With regard to border security, as you are all aware, we are in the midst of an ongoing security and humanitarian crisis at our southwest border. The Department, at the request of our front-line officers and agents, has worked with this committee to make clear that we need additional resources to respond to the crisis. In March alone, CBP apprehended and encountered more than 103,000 migrants crossing without legal status, the most in 1 month for more than a decade. On April 16, we had almost 5,000 people cross the border without authorization in a single day, almost 1,000 of them in just three large groups. Remarkably, these three large groups in one 24-hour

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00078 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 79 period exceeded the total number of large groups apprehended in all of fiscal year 2017. Simply put, the system is full, and we are well beyond our capacity. This means that new waves of vulnerable populations are arriving here and exacerbating the already urgent humanitarian security crisis at the border. We don’t have room to hold them, we don’t have the authority to remove them fairly and expeditiously, and they are not likely to be allowed to remain in the country at the end of their immigration proceedings. The status quo is not acceptable. Through supplemental requests and emergency declarations, we have worked to do everything that we can to address the immediate and dire humanitarian crisis. We have deployed medical teams from the U.S. Coast Guard. We have received help from the Departments of Defense and Health and Human Services. We have redeployed CBP officers. And we have engaged with non-profits across the country. But we do need more authorities, as the ranking member noted, and more resources to definitively address the crisis. We need sustained investment in additional emergency support at the southwest border to overcome the humanitarian and security crisis that we face. The President’s budget requests $523 million to address the humanitarian crisis. This money will allow us to provide better care for those who we come in contact with through apprehension, care and custody, detention, and, where appropriate, removal. Second, to address the border security crisis, it requests $5 billion in funding for the construction of approximately 200 miles of a new border wall system. This is a proven deterrent that will enhance our ability to apprehend those entering our nation illegally. It also calls for 750 additional Border Patrol agents, 273 Customs and Border Protection officers, and more than 1,660 ICE front-line and support personnel. We will also make much-needed upgrades to sensors, command and control systems, and aircraft to help our men and women combat criminals who are profiting from human suffering. I hear weekly from our operators on the border that these upgrades are badly needed in their fight against transnational criminal organizations, smugglers, and gangs. I would please ask for your support to our men and women who are doing heroic work along the border. Although our 2020 budget will help address this crisis, we will need additional funding even sooner. Given the scale of what we are facing, we will exhaust our resources before the end of this fiscal year, which is why this week the administration will be sending a supplemental funding request to the Congress. As I am sure you are only too aware, DHS is not the only agency involved in the humanitarian crisis unfolding daily at our southern border. Our partners at the Department of Health and Human Services are also on the brink of running out of resources. The administration’s supplemental request will address critical humanitarian requirements and help to ensure the crisis is managed in an operationally effective, humane, and safe manner.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00079 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 80 The administration’s supplemental request will not only provide critical humanitarian assistance, including temporary and semi- permanent migrant processing facilities at the southern border where families and children will receive timely and appropriate medical attention, food, and temporary shelter prior to being transferred to other residential locations, but also funding for border operations, to include surge personnel, expenses, and increased detention capacity, and, finally, for mission-support activities, including upgrades to our overtaxed information technology systems to manage and process migrants accurately, efficiently, and quickly. The supplemental request is part one. The second request will be the administration’s legislative proposal, which will be sent to Con- gress shortly, to address the key drivers of the humanitarian crisis. But even as we face a challenging border security and humanitarian crisis that is a central focus and my central task as acting secretary, DHS is always a multi-mission department. And we will not lose momentum across any of our key missions in the numerous efforts that we are facing, including, critically, cybersecurity, securing the 2020 elections, preparing for the upcoming hurricane season, and everything else that we are asked to do. The President’s budget also requests $1.3 billion to assess evolving cybersecurity risks, [and to] protect Federal government information systems and critical infrastructure. The budget supports the launch of Protect 2020, the new initiative designed to get all states to a baseline level of election infrastructure cybersecurity well before the national elections of 2020, building on the progress we made during the election season in 2018. Although DHS does not control or directly oversee state and local election infrastructure, we can provide much-needed technical assistance and support to our willing partners. Our air travel system also needs to continue to evolve and upgrade in our security posture. Additional transportation security officers and technology will uphold our security effectiveness and stay ahead of increasing cost and security demands at airports nationwide. The $3.3 billion requested for TSA includes funding for an initial 700 screeners and 350 computed tomography units. I want to close by reiterating that the strength of DHS is in its people. I would be remiss if I didn’t mention the tremendous dedication of our front-line officers and agents confronting this crisis each day. And I appreciate the members of the committee going down to see our personnel, whether it is at the border, here, seeing TSA at our airports just as you did yesterday, and really getting to know the challenges they face and the way they are tackling those challenges. Investment in our workforce is going to remain a very high priority for me. It was at CBP. It will be during my tenure as acting secretary. I am very glad the President’s budget provides the necessary funding to accomplish our vital mission alongside funding retention and morale programs for our personnel. The resolve and devotion of the men and women of DHS is on display daily, and the security of our nation depends on appropriate resources to help them to meet the new and challenging circumstances.

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As the committee knows, I am 21⁄2 weeks into this role, so I am joined at the table today by Acting Undersecretary Chip Fulghum, a tremendous professional whom I have known for almost a decade, who has a multi-decade career of service both in the United States Air Force as well as the Department of Homeland Security. He is doing this side by side with me in his last week at the De- partment of Homeland Security, because he is committed to providing this committee with the information they need to understand our appropriations request and to effectively assess our budget. And so I just want to thank you, Chip, for sitting next to me. I will definitely be relying on his expertise on multiple areas during our conversation today. So thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I look forward to the conversation this morning. [The information follows:]

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DETENTION: IMPROVING CONDITIONS AND PROCESSING Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Secretary, as I mentioned in my opening statement, on our trip to the border earlier this month, we witnessed migrants continuing to be held in inhumane conditions. While we did witness CBP personnel trying to manage the flow and improve conditions where they could, we also saw many ineffi- ciencies among departmental components that are continuing to provide delays in processing, transportation, and in improving of conditions. What steps can be taken to improve efficiencies and the department’s ability to quickly respond to changing conditions? And what is the role of the Interagency Border Emergency Cell that was established in April? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you for the question. So, I know you visited El Paso, Madam Chairwoman. This is our sector of the border that has had the most significant increase of any across the entire border, more than a 400-percent increase in the arrivals of family units over last year. That has absolutely stretched our resources and our processes, both at CBP and across our interagency partners in the immigration system. And we are taking a number of steps to address that. First of all, we appreciate the committees support in fiscal year 2019, to provide additional funding to address the humanitarian challenges. That means facilities, transportation, medical care, and also food and other care and custody support for those in CBP custody. We are applying that funding. We are in the process of delivering the soft-sided temporary processing center that is going to allow our El Paso sector to put families and children who are arriving in a more appropriate setting during their initial processing at the border. That is absolutely critical. Our second step will be to upgrade that with a more modular and hard-sided facility. And then, of course, we would like to establish a permanent central processing center in El Paso that would provide the appropriate setting for families and children with a whole range of services, from medical care to showers, to laundry, and really allow us to have co-located partnerships with CIS [U.S. Citizenship and Im- migration Services] and with U.S. Immigrations and Customs En- forcement in one location. That is the goal, but we are starting with an immediate effort to provide a better setting in our soft-sided facility. You asked how we can streamline these processes. I would like to work on a unified immigration portal that will provide a connection between the various systems of the agencies that oversee immigration and make sure that an individual being processed can be tracked throughout the system efficiently and in an expedited manner, to both improve our processing and improve the integrity of the system. And then I mentioned the critical element of co-location. And we are working closely, obviously, within the DHS family across the three immigration bureaus, working with Health and Human Serv- ices. And it has got to be a very streamline process, so that unac-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00089 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 90 companied children spend as little time as possible at the border in a Border Patrol station or a related facility, but also working closely with our immigration courts at the Executive Office of Im- migration Review. That we can do through improved communication, better I.T. systems, and a unified approach to this challenge. But we have a lot of work to do, as you have seen, and I am personally committed to ensuring that the facility conditions are appropriate for those crossing the border. INTERAGENCY BORDER EMERGENCY CELL Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. And the role of the Interagency Bor- der Emergency Cell is—— Mr. MCALEENAN. Sure. The main function of the IBEC was to— the Interagency Border Emergency Cell was to identify those interagency requirements to respond immediately to the humanitarian challenge at the border. So they have helped to refine those same categories and needs— facilities, transportation, medical care, how do we get volunteers down to the border from other DHS components that have skill sets that we need, for instance, a driver’s license, a commercial driver’s license. When we have conveyances that we needed to move migrants who are crossing, we don’t always have the people to drive them. So simple things like that. We have attorneys surging to the border to help process expeditiously and fairly, as you noted, which is critical. And so they have developed those requirements, which we have gone to our interagency partners, including the Department of De- fense, to help us meet in the near-term. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. And let me just say that, the administration has for some time called upon Congress to take immediate action and we have not received any requests from you in that regard. So I am happy that you have stated that we will be receiving a request from you. And my time is up. And so, I would like to turn it over to Mr. Fleischmann. BORDER SECURITY: BARRIER Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Mr. McAleenan, much has been made about building a barrier across the southwest border of the country, so I have some very pointed questions. A barrier was not an invention of the previous Congress or even this current administration. Is that correct, sir? Mr. MCALEENAN. That is correct. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. How many miles of fence or barrier were con- structed prior to January 2017, sir? Mr. MCALEENAN. Approximately 654 miles. BORDER SECURITY IMPROVEMENT PLAN Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, sir. The fiscal year 2018 Border Security Improvement Plan was mandated in the fiscal 2018 appropriations bill. We have heard from you, in your capacity as the commissioner of CBP, that this

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00090 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 91 plan was the result of the experiences and needs of agents and officers on the ground at the border. How was the plan created? And who had input to determine the priorities, sir? Mr. MCALEENAN. That is correct, Congressman. Our Border Se- curity Improvement Plan is derived from the men and women in the field identifying those technologies and capabilities that they need to enhance the security of the border in their areas. As you know from visiting us on the border, each area of the border has different challenges, in terms of terrain, in terms of existing technology, in terms of what barriers that we have. And so our sector chiefs on the Border Patrol side, our directors of field operations are putting their requirements forward for what they need in their areas of responsibility. We go through a rigorous process to access and analyze those, to validate them and then combine them, before we submit the report to Congress on the Border Security Improvement Plan. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. So just to be abundantly clear, the input is coming from the men and women who are actually doing the work there on the ground and that is what you are acting upon, sir? Mr. MCALEENAN. That is correct. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Very good. Is CBP following the published 2018 Border Security Improve- ment Plan in determining where to invest construction funds? Mr. MCALEENAN. Yes. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Any deviations? Mr. MCALEENAN. I mean, that is our set of priorities that we are asking for funding against. And so, that is going to be our guide- post. BORDER SECURITY: CONSTRUCTION RESTRICTIONS Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you. Is CBP following the restrictions in the fiscal 2019 bill placed on various sections of the border when determining where to invest construction funds? Mr. MCALEENAN. Yes, very, very carefully. We will be engaging in the consultation required; we will be, obviously, mindful of those areas where we are not going to be able to build barrier at this time. But of course, we will be following those restrictions. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. So you have been following the fiscal 2018 and fiscal 2019 restrictions as laid out by the Congress? Mr. MCALEENAN. Yes, Congressman. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, sir. So, even though the president has transferred other funds, you are still following the priorities and plans in the published document and the restrictions of the fiscal 2019 bill? Mr. MCALEENAN. Yes, that is our intent. BORDER SECURITY: HIRING, BORDER PATROL AGENTS Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Excellent. Thank you. I am going to move to hiring then, sir. Staffing and retention initiatives are highlighted across many, if not almost all, the department’s components in the 2020 budget request, with funds requested to back up increased numbers.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00091 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 92 The Customs and Border Protection prior year budgets have also proposed increasing the amount of agents just like this year, but the department hasn’t been able to provide justification supporting the request. The committee directed the department to complete the long overdue staffing report by September of this year. Further, the I.G. has recently published reports highlighting other challenges CBP faces to onboarding a large number of people in a short period of time, such as training facility limitations and capacity issues in existing agency offices. I have a question, sir. Has the CBP made progress on a border agent staffing methodology, sir? Mr. MCALEENAN. Yes. We have. The personnel requirements determination, as you noted, will be delivered to Congress by the end of this fiscal year. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Okay. Does the model you are developing support the request of 750 additional border agents in 2020, sir? Mr. MCALEENAN. Yes, it will support probably more than that, but that is the number that we believe we can hire within a fiscal year. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. And one final question. How will the department resolve other issues of training and facility capacity to meet the influx of new hires? Mr. MCALEENAN. It is a close partnership between U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers [FLETC]. And we have worked that out in our officer context, where we are enjoying a very successful set of hiring—2,000 net CBP officers, over the last 5 years, and we are going to hire a net of 1,000 or more this fiscal year. So we work to balance the classes at FLETC. And we will be doing that for the Border Patrol academy as we seek to add additional agents as well. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, sir. And as I said in my opening statement, I want to thank you, Mr. Fulghum, and also the outstanding men and women who work in Homeland Security every day to keep our great nation safe. And with that, I will yield back. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Lowey. MIGRANT PROTECTION PROTOCOLS PROGRAM The CHAIRWOMAN. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I want to welcome again the secretary who is taking on a really important responsibility. Mr. Secretary, as you know, the Mi- grant Protection Protocols Program was put in place to return arriving migrants to Mexico while their immigration claims are processed. It is not clear to me how this program works. And DHS has only recently begun to provide limited details to Congress. This is despite the fact that the program has now expanded to other areas, and I understand El Paso is one of those areas. Given that the program is called Migrant Protection Protocols, how does the Department of Homeland Security coordinate with Mexico to ensure the safety and well-being of returned migrants? And will the executive office for immigration review prioritize these cases? Or will migrants be forced to remain in Mexico for possibly years as they await adjudication of their cases?

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Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. So, the migrant protection protocols are an important effort to provide greater access to court hearings, especially at our ports of entry where we are working diligently to provide access to asylum seekers lawfully presenting without documents, but also to achieve an actual court resolution in a reasonable amount of time. This is something that I think is the fundamental challenge we face with the system right now. It is actually getting results from the immigration proceeding that can be effectuated in a timely manner. And what the migrant protection protocols allow us to do is two things. One, it allows us to take more people in at ports of entry who are presenting asylum claims because we can process them without the limitations in our capacity from the custody requirements or from the non-detained docket for the Executive Office of Immigration Review. As you asked, will judges be dedicated to the Migrant Protection Protocol? Yes. That is our commitment from DOJ [Department of Justice], that they will be able to dedicate judges and dockets to the MPP to actually get through hearings in months instead of years before even an initial hearing, as we currently face today. The other thing it will do is it will take away the incentive, which exists right now, to cross illegally instead of presenting lawfully at a port of entry. We have increased our asylum processing at ports of entry 120 percent from fiscal year 2017 to 2018, and we are up another 100 percent in fiscal year 2019 over 2017. We are on pace for more than 70,000 asylum applications at ports of entry in this fiscal year. To keep up with that, we need to ensure that we provide access to a process. In terms of working with Mexico, we obviously had conversations before implementing this program to receive people back. Mexico is a sovereign nation. That is their decision. They made the decision to accept them and put public guarantees over protection from a humanitarian perspective, as well as access to legal counsel and access to return to the ports of entry to be brought to their court hearings. The CHAIRWOMAN. So, just to clarify because I appreciate your answer, you are saying that even though they are being sent to Mexico, they will have, and are having, access to legal counsel? Mr. MCALEENAN. So, each migrant and each asylum applicant is given a list of legal providers that are available. In many of these areas, and the main implementation, as you noted, is both in Baja, California, or Tijuana primarily, as well as Juarez, Chihuahua. We have U.S. attorneys and nongovernment organizations that have bi-national presence and collaboration. And so we make sure they know who they can call if they don’t already have an attorney identified, and they have that opportunity also to meet with their counsel when they come into the United States before their hearing, as well. DETENTION: SEPARATIONS, FAMILY The CHAIRWOMAN. I would appreciate additional information as to how that process is working and whether you think it is effec-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00093 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 94 tive, and whether most or all of the migrants do have legal counsel. I would appreciate that. The zero-tolerance policy instituted by the Trump administration led to the separation of thousands of families. And while this inhumane policy technically ended last June, as I understand it, CBP continues to separate some children from their families. I know you described family separation as not worth it, but can you explain the circumstances under which CBP will separate a child from the parent, legal guardian, or someone claiming that relationship? Oh, I have—maybe just answer that, I see I’ve run out of time. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. We will allow him to answer. The CHAIRWOMAN. Please answer. Mr. MCALEENAN. Yes, thank you. So, the conditions where a child might be separated from a lawful parent or guardian at this time are extraordinarily rare. It is happening for fewer than two per day even though we have 1,600- plus families arriving per day. These conditions are prescribed both in the executive order from June 20th of last year as well as the Ms. L case court order, and therefore, the safety and welfare of the child—communicable disease, a serious criminal history, a risk presented by that adult to the child. And so it is being done very carefully, extraordinarily rare circumstances, and that is the only time the separation occurs. The other part of your question, though, is when a family member crosses with a child. Under the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, a family unit is defined as a parent or guardian, not necessarily just another family member. So, in those cases, we do have to treat the child as unaccompanied, as well, under the law. The CHAIRWOMAN. To be continued. I know I have run out of time. Thank you, sir. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Granger. ALTERNATIVES TO DETENTION Mr. GRANGER. Thank you. Because of the sheer volume of people coming to the border to claim asylum and the resulting strain on the immigration system, record numbers of migrants are being released into the United States with court dates and directions to check in with their local ICE offices. Many of them completely ignore those instructions. We heard on one trip to the border that monitoring bracelets were removed as soon as the migrants left law enforcement custody in many cases. We have invested billions of dollars in alternatives to detention. I would ask you, do these programs work, which ones of them work, does ICE have the resources to deal with a number of immigrants both in terms of those presenting at the border and tracking people going through the asylum process? While this issue is mainly in the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice, do you have suggestions on how the immigration courts could speed up the processing and reduce their backlog? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congresswoman. Several important questions there.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00094 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 95 First of all, that is going to be an area that I look at very carefully along with the acting Director of ICE Matt Albence. How can we make our alternatives to detention effective for ensuring that people are present for their court hearings and that those results that immigration judges eventually find can be appropriately effectuated? We do not have that process working effectively right now as you noted. We are very concerned about people cutting off their bracelets and not showing up for court hearings. That is not a process with integrity right now. We do recognize the committee’s provision of additional resources in fiscal year 2019 to look at a case management program in a re- newed light for families that would maybe help us ensure that people actually go through the process in an expedited manner. One of the things that I will be talking about with Attorney Gen- eral Barr and James McHenry who oversees the Executive Office of Immigration Review is how we can move people through a non- detained docket for those recent border arrivals in an effective manner. That is absolutely critical. But in terms of your broader point, the way that we are actually achieving results is when we are able to detain someone in custody through dependency of their immigration proceedings. That is what works with single adults right now, and that is an essential aspect of what we are going to be asking for from Con- gress for families, being able to keep them together in an appropriate setting for a fair and expeditious process. That is going to be how we establish integrity for that group of border crossers, as well. UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN Mr. GRANGER. And I think all of us that are on this subcommittee and all the members of Congress, we realize that there were good processes put together at some time. The sheer numbers today, we have new process and changes to laws that are going to be very important. I was on the border on one of the trips recently and the person that was working so hard and said what we need is a permanent structure of this, I said, no, we don’t need a permanent structure because we can’t do this permanently, the numbers are so overwhelming, I—Customs and Border Patrol, they are like our military. They say we will do with whatever you give us. Well, they don’t say that anymore because they can’t do it. And so we really—all of us need to work together with you and all that are trying to figure this thing out and how we stop those sheer numbers and how we deal with it as we go. I have got a little bit more time. You have had such a long experience with this issue. How are you seeing the changes occur? And I go back to far before this started something that we were watching so carefully, to back to 2014 when Speaker Boehner asked me to go to the border and see these unaccompanied children and what was happening there and make recommendations. That is when we made recommendations and I went to all three countries they were coming from and asked questions of the admin-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00095 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 96 istration there and I said, you want your children back, first of all, how much do you want your children back? And then what can you do in these countries to make them safer so that parents don’t take their children to a country that they have never been to or pay someone that they have never met before. So how are you seeing this increasing from that time and also just in the last 6 to 8 months? Mr. MCALEENAN. So there has been a number of changes, I mean, from that first year of crisis with unaccompanied children and family units. I was deputy commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection at the time. And I think the main challenge we are facing is just a growing awareness and the exploitation of that awareness by smugglers of the weaknesses in our immigration laws and our system. We are seeing smugglers advertise differentiated offerings for getting to our border in an expedited time, making very clear that if people cross with a child, they are going to be allowed a different process here in the United States. And that has been an invitational posture for the system that has been overwhelming as you note. I would recommend to the committee the recent Homeland Security Advisory Council report, just 2 weeks ago. This is a bipartisan group of experts who wrote a non-partisan report that outlined the crisis we are facing, difficulty with facilities and just sheer volume and processing, but also very clearly legislative solutions that would address both the families and children crossing as well as partnering with Central American countries to create greater integrity from the beginning of that process forward. So I think that is a very good set of external recommendations that really in my view accord with what we are seeing on the border. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you for reminding us of that. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Cuellar. U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION OFFICERS Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, I appreciate the work that you do. As you know, I go to my hometown on the border, so I am at the border every week. I get to get together with CBP officers and Border Patrol almost every week. So I know the men and women that work for you all down there. Let me tell you, they are doing a heck of a job and I want to commend them for the work that they do. This CBP enforcement action process, and I asked my staff to put this together as you can see, Mr. Secretary, it is a complicated matter. It is a very complicated matter. Same thing for the arrest and removal process, it is a complicated matter and I hope we can sit down in a bipartisan way and find some ways to address it, including if you are supplemental—I wish you would talk to the Department of Justice because we added 50 new judge teams, and I think it was 2 days after we did the conference report, they sent out a letter and said we are out of money because of interpreter costs.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00096 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 97 So we haven’t hired any of the judges that we added. So we keep talking about adding judges, but there is a freeze on the judges that we just added in February. So I wish you would talk to them and make sure they make that as a supplemental. One issue that I want to bring up is of course trade. Every day there is more than $1.5 billion of trade between the U.S. and Mex- ico. As you know, you all moved 545 CBP officers down to the McAllen area. Fifteen percent of that came from the Laredo district, which is the largest port we handle, when you put everything, 7 out of every 10 trucks that come from Mexico, across Mexico, our border is through our port of entry. You and I spoke and I gave you five different ideas, and I think out of the 545 you all have brought back 252 back out of the 545. I asked you to spread the pain and go, with all due respect, naming any cities here, but any of the cities that, you know, instead of just taking them from the border, spread the pain and bring CBP officers. I asked you about overtime, I asked you about cap waivers, I asked about volunteer forces, and the recently retired officers also, Coast Guard also. And so I gave you different ideas. Even the Pub- lic Private Partnership law that we passed some years ago where there are—the private industries are willing to pay to get some of this work processed, we still need to do more and I really would appreciate your help so we can get our CBP officers back. They should not be changing diapers, they should not be making food. I think that is—you know, there is another way to address that and this is why we requested in this new budget, and hopefully the committee will go with this, 1,200 new entry positions for Border Patrol and CBP, where they can do everything except arrest people, but I don’t think trained officers should be changing diapers or making some of those changes. I know that is important work, but the immigration issue should not affect the trade issue, which is a very important part. So, I would appreciate anything you can do to bring back those officers. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you Congressman. And obviously I share your concerns about law enforcement professionals, highly trained, working on care and custody issues and obviously very concerned about CBP officers being diverted from their port of entry responsibilities, processing that incredible volume of lawful trade, as well as their counternarcotics missions and other critical missions at the ports of entry. That was an immediate term response to a crisis in terms of the numbers in our custody and the time people were facing in custody that we needed to provide some support to our Border Patrol agents. Obviously, we needed to start with folks who were nearby, that is why Laredo and some of the other land border ports of entry were most affected in that first tranche. We have expanded, as you noted, two additional field offices providing support, we have advised stakeholders in the aviation industry for international air arrivals at the sea ports that there are going to be impacts in other areas as well.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00097 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 98 But, we have done all of those recommendations, we have increased overtime, we have put in cap waivers, we have volunteer forces now deployed, and we are using rehired annuitants, as well, it is a bit of a process, but we are bringing on as many as we can, because we need all hands on deck. Mr. CUELLAR. Yes. I hate to interrupt, because my time is almost up and I want to speak to my 5 minutes. Do you know when we can get our officers back? Mr. MCALEENAN. So, that depends on the flow, and it depends on how successful we are in providing the volunteer forces and our contracting time for bringing in some of these contracted resources. Mr. CUELLAR. So, you spread the pain to other places? Because, it is not fair that the Laredo district has taken 15 percent of the cut or transfers and I really would appreciate your help on that. And I will follow up. My time is up. Mr. MCALEENAN. We are balancing across field offices, understand. Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Newhouse. SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DIRECTORATE, COUNTERING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION OFFICE Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair and Mr. Ranking Member, and for also our Chair of the Committee and Ranking Member of the Committee to be here this morning. Mr. Acting Secretary, as well as Mr. Acting Undersecretary, welcome to the committee. Thank you for being here with us today and, Mr. Secretary, want to thank you for your outstanding service and long career of helping to protect our nation. I also want to thank you for your stepping up into this leadership role and I certainly look forward to working with you. I have been to the border myself, both north from the state of Washington, it is as an important part of your responsibility, but also to the southern border. And certainly I have, as well as many others, have seen firsthand certainly the dedication of the people that are protecting our border to work in as humanely a way as possible to—as we work as hard as we can to deal with the on- slaught of people coming across our border. It truly is a crisis in many ways. It is an impossible task almost that we are asking you to deal with, and if we want improvements and changes, in my opinion, it is up to us as Congress to provide you with those resources and policies necessary for you to carry out this impossible job. So, thank you for being here with us this morning to help explain what it is you need. As you probably know in your 21⁄2 weeks you are learning a lot of things, but there are a number of reorganizations going on across the department. I am a representative of one of the national laboratories, the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Wash- ington State. It has been one of the largest performers of research and development for DHS across the National Lab System and I am interested in how things are going with some of the R&D organizations within the department. And so, as you grow into this new role at DHS, could I ask you your perspective, at this point, on how the reorganizations are

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00098 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 99 going in the science and technology directorate and with the merg- er of the Domestic Nuclear Detection Office and the Office of Health Affairs that will be forming the Countering Weapons of Mass Destruction Office? So, could you give us some ideas about that? Mr. MCALEENAN. Sure. And thank you, Congressman, and appreciate your comments on the Pacific Northwest National Labora- tories [PNNL]. During my career at CBP, one of the first things we did post-9/ 11 to increase our security was to develop the capability to detect radiological and nuclear devices crossing the border. That work would have not been possible without PNNL and I have enjoyed a long-standing partnership in my career with the experts at PNNL to help us establish that capability. And from our perspective, R&D is absolutely essential, given the types of threats we are facing, whether it is in the cyberspace, whether it is in unaccompanied aerial systems that are challenging us both at the border and in security areas away from the border, making sure that we are doing that effectively is going to be essential. You mentioned both S&T and our Countering Weapons of Mass Destruction Office. I am very excited to engage in this role with both elements. S&T has helped CBP to develop access to innovative technologies coming from startups out in the Silicon Valley area, as well as around the country, and we are applying that technology effectively in months instead of years because of the shorter lead time that their contracting authorities have allowed us to take advantage of. I know the benefits of partnering with S&T to create better processes and better technology at the border, so we are going to continue that. On the Countering Weapons of Mass Destruction, we can’t do this kind of work without a strong Office of Health Affairs and a chief medical officer advising us, both in terms of the care of custody of people who are crossing the border, but also addressing things like the threat from Ebola, and we have done that before and obviously we have a new outbreak in Africa that we are monitoring closely. So, I am looking forward to working with these components in my new role. I have done it for years in prior positions at CBP and look forward to getting your insights and talking with the committee about how we can best manage those key resources to support the broader DHS mission. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Good. I appreciate that and look forward to working with you and I know other members of committee are interested in this topic as well. But again, thank you for being with us this morning and look forward to working with you in your new role. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Ruppersberger. NON-INTRUSIVE INSPECTION EQUIPMENT: ROLLOUT Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Yes, Acting Secretary, first, you have a tremendous job and you have a very good reputation. You are a pro-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00099 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 100 fessional, you are focused, and you stand for what is right and you know there are a lot of issues. I just came back from a codel that the Chairman put together from the border and I am going to make a couple of comments, because I want to—my question and some of my observations. First thing, you have very good people working, wherever that is. I think the main issue at the border now is the volume. That is a theme that is really causing a problem. And then when we have volume and people that are coming in and we can’t take care of them, a Border Patrol leader said, you know, when you arrest somebody in the United States, you book them and then you don’t see them until court. We arrest them and we have to detain them, and that is not really our business and that is where we are having a lot of problems with this volume. So we have got to work on that. The other issue is that I wish our president would stop using this issue of the wall and the perception of everybody coming in are criminals or causing problems. I think the cartels really are the coordinated criminals, it is a serious problem, they have a lot of control and a lot of money, and they have the ability to get people in and drugs, as we know that. So it is a focus that we need to work on. And what you have talked about here today, if we can only stop talking about the wall, I go to my district and people say, hey, Dutch, build the wall, support the wall. And it is really about border security. All you have to do is talk about the things that you have talked about here today. So I believe hopefully in the next year we can start working with you, and we need a reorganization of how we are dealing with immigration, not any laws, but also how to deal with what we really need. We need 1,000 more judges, we need more people focusing on where we need to go, we need better equipment and you are starting to do that at the border and ports of entry where a lot of the drugs are coming in. So I just want to say that, and my observation, we have got a lot to talk about, Chairwoman, I really thank you for putting us together. It is really you learn by going to the front line and that is what we did. I want to talk about the non-intrusive inspection equipment. We provided CBP $182 million for this equipment in fiscal year 2018 and $564 million in fiscal year 2019. My understanding is that all of the funding is to be directed to the southern border. I support this technology and want to be sure we are screening at sea ports, including the port of Baltimore which I represent where a lot of fentanyl is coming into. Of the $746 million provided by the committee over the last 2 years, how much has been spent thus far? What is your plan to implement and roll out NII technologies along the southern border and elsewhere? And given the NII’s multiple platforms and capabilities, is CBP able to put additional capabilities at sea ports? The reason I ask is if these investments are made, and there is no question they should be, what impact do you believe they will

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00100 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 101 have on maritime ports and does that constitute additional investment in NII at maritime ports? There are so many other issues, cyber, that we don’t have time to get into, focus on this one now. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congressman. And I will try to answer it quickly to make sure you have a chance for a second question, but—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. I won’t. Mr. MCALEENAN [continuing]. The support from this committee for our NII technology is absolutely essential, and it is going to be a tremendous opportunity that we have to change the way we secure our ports of entry with the investments from both 2018 and 2019 and the request we have in 2020. We spent about three quarters of the fiscal year 2018 funding already. These are long lead-time items; the new non-intrusive inspection systems are tremendously capable, but they take about 18 months from purchase to deployment. So we are progressing on an aggressive timeline. With the $562 million in the fiscal year 2019 budget, our executive assistant commissioner Todd Owen, he is the guy who bought our NII technology after 9/11 in two roles prior. So I have tremendous confidence in him to develop an acquisition and deployment plan that is going to increase our mission effectiveness in a cost- effective and timely fashion. We are looking at going from 2 percent of personally owned vehicles to scanning 40 percent at our southern land border. Those 2 percent of vehicles that we are scanning now cause 80 plus percent of our seizures. So we know we need to scan more vehicles. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. That is great. Mr. MCALEENAN. And for the commercial cargo, we are going from 16 percent to 70 percent in about a 21⁄2 year timeline for procurement and deployment at all of the different ports of entry on the southern border. For the fiscal year 2020 request, I just want to emphasize that the request is to recapitalize existing systems at sea ports and at northern border ports of entry and to ensure that we are maintaining the highest capable technology across our ports of entry. So this is a multi-year effort to make sure that we are able to do that not only at our land border where we have the highest threat from counter narcotics, but also at sea ports and northern border ports. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Okay, thank you, and I am going to—I don’t have time, I just want to talk about drones in my next round. Drones on the border. Okay, thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Rutherford. BORDER SECURITY: HIRING, ACCENTURE Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Acting Secretary, I thank you, thank you both for being here this morning. We have talked a lot this morning about the effect and the impact of this humanitarian crisis. I want to talk just a little bit about what I believe is some of the cause of this issue that you are having to deal with now.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00101 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 102 And that goes back to the Flores settlement agreement, which initially Jenny Flores was an unaccompanied minor, unaccompanied. And the Flores settlement agreement dealt with unaccompanied minors only. And they could be detained, the agreement was that they could be detained as long as necessary, and that was the law up until 2015 when the middle district judge from California decided to expand the Flores agreement to include accompanied children. Not just unaccompanied children, but accompanied children. And as you said earlier, Mr. Secretary, the traffickers figured this out after 2015 and that is why we began to see these caravans of families coming to our border and creating this humanitarian crisis that we are now trying to deal with the effect of. But I think we can thank Judge G. from the middle district for this and the lack of response to that decision from Congress and the lack of response from the administration, not this administration, but the previous administration. And so I just wanted to kind of set the table for that because when I look at your budget, I had a lifelong career in law enforcement, I am very familiar with putting together security plans, and when I look at your budget, I see a very well thought out plan here. It is a multi-layer plan. And the Border Security Improvement Plan you have the impediment, which is the wall, you have the surveillance, which is the remote video surveillance system that you are asking for funding, you also have plans to build the infrastructure so that when a breach of that impediment is detected, you can respond quickly with those boots on the ground to get there and apprehend those individuals. Now, my question though is, on the troops, the Accenture program that was supposed to help you bring—I think we had 7,500 individuals authorized to be hired. From what I can see, Mr. Sec- retary, this program is not working. Now, if that is going to change because I heard you mention some numbers earlier about up to 1,000 this year, can you talk a little bit about how well we can bring these people on? Because now we are asking for additional staff, and look, I know you need them, and I want to get them to you. But I also want to hold this contractor accountable. So, tell me where we are at with that. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congressman. If I could just respond quickly to your points on Flores, because I think that history is really important to understand. Congresswoman Granger mentioned the 2014 crisis. We had 68,000 families cross that year. What the Obama administration did was create family residential centers that allowed DHS to detain families pending an immigration proceeding. And then, if they didn’t have a valid right to stay, to remove them. As soon as those were established and repatriation started happening, the numbers dropped immediately. That changed, though, a year later in that reinterpretation of a 20-year-old settlement to apply now to not only unaccompanied children but accompanied children. And that is the central challenge we face today with the families crossing.

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Mr. RUTHERFORD. Exactly. And I should have mentioned also— I failed to mention earlier that that is where the 20 days comes from, as well. Mr. MCALEENAN. Correct. That is correct. That is where the limi- tation on—— Mr. RUTHERFORD. But onto the issue of hiring—— Mr. MCALEENAN [continuing]. Comes together. Yes. So, hiring has been my top mission support priority at CBP. It will remain that as acting secretary because it applies to so many of our components. You mentioned what we have done at CBP to change our hiring. We made 40 different process improvements during the 3 years prior to my elevation to acting secretary. That had a significant impact. We hired more than 530 officers last year, and we hired 130 Border Patrol agents; it was the first time that we ended the year with more agents than we started in 3 years. Really kind of turned the corner on our hiring, and we intend to continue to drive forward. The Accenture effort was an effort to try to increase the capacity to hire even more quickly. And it didn’t work out the way that we intended. We did, however, have significant developments from that effort, both with digital marketing to find new applicants and with applicant care to keep people in the system, understanding where they were in the process, and we are going to take those lessons and capitalize on them. But we are not going to spend money that is not effective. And so that is why that contract has been curtailed. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Good. Thank you very much. My time has expired. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Price. 287(G) PROGRAM, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT RAIDS Mr. PRICE. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Secretary, I want to add my word of welcome to that expressed by a number of members this morning. We do appreciate your many years of career service with the Department of Homeland Security. And I will just speak for myself, I am very grateful that you are available at this moment to steer the ship. It is a critical time. It is a time of maximum chaos and political turmoil, orchestrated by a vindictive president seeking scapegoats, it would appear, and shadowy White House aides and much more. So my hope for you is that you cannot merely survive this but that you can also work with us to steer this department back to a sane and defensible and balanced immigration policy. In that connection, I want to ask you about the 287(g) program and ICE raids, particularly as they have affected my district and my state in recent months. In February, ICE carried out numerous enforcement actions in my district across the state of North Caro- lina. Agents had arrested over 200 individuals in one week, many of whose only crime was to be here without documentation. These raids took place statewide in courthouses, workplaces, outside of schools, during traffic stops. The majority of these arrests were concentrated in areas that had recently ended voluntary immigration enforcement agreements, including several 287(g) agree-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00103 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 104 ments with the agency. Now, I want to take just a minute here to quote fully your Atlanta ICE field office director. I am going to quote him completely and fully. Here is what he said. I would say the new normal is you will see more visible ICE presence out in the communities. The increase in raids is a product of some of the policies that have been enacted within the state with respect to Mecklenburg County, Durham, Wake County, Orange County. I think the uptick you have seen is a direct result of some of the dangerous policies some of our county sheriffs have put into place. It really forces my officers to go out on the street and conduct more operations out in the community at courthouses, at residences, doing traffic stops. This is a direct correlation between the sheriffs’ dangerous policies of not cooperating with ICE and the fact that we have to continue executing our important law enforcement mission, end of quote. I was appalled to hear these arrests justified as the direct result of several counties lawfully ending their engagement in voluntary immigration enforcement agreement with the agencies. And you know they are voluntary. Multiple courts have ruled that these agreements are in fact voluntary, to be entered or exited according to the best judgment, the discretion, of local authorities. So, that leads to my question. Can you tell me, is it department policy to conduct more enforcement operations in localities that have recently ended 287(g) programs? And is the department predi- cating raids as retaliation against local law enforcement agencies who are executing their own discretion and their own judgment and who have reasonably decided that maintaining community access and community trust is absolutely critical to their law enforcement mission? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congressman, for your kind words as I assume this role. Let me go directly to address your question. There is no policy of retaliation for jurisdictions, first and foremost. And there won’t be under my tenure as acting secretary. I think what you are hearing from ICE is its responsibility to protect communities from those who are here without legal permission and have a criminal record. Eighty-seven percent of those in ICE custody that ICE has arrested in the interior have a criminal record and a reason for that targeted arrest. ICE isn’t ignoring other people it encounters who don’t have a criminal background but who are here unlawfully, but it is apprehending primarily those who are here unlawfully and have a criminal record. And I think that is an important aspect of ICE’s mission. It is also true that it is more efficient, more effective, and safer for communities if ICE can work with jurisdictions in the jails, in the prisons, to ensure that it is taking into custody those who need to be repatriated without going into the communities. That is a better approach; that is what we would prefer to do. But when we don’t have that opportunity, ICE does have a responsibility to protect those communities and it will do targeted enforcement and apprehensions. Mr. PRICE. My time is about to expire. I have been informed this morning that we have received an answer to an earlier communica-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00104 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 105 tion that I and other members of our congressional delegation sent seeking clarification. Your answer is pretty generic and your At- lanta field director is pretty specific that this is a matter of targeting jurisdictions that have ended these agreements. So, I hope it is not just a matter of straightening out the Atlanta director’s talking points. I hope it is a matter of straightening out the policy and targeting enforcement actions where they should be targeted, irrespective of the discretion exercise by local law enforcement officials as to how best carry out their own responsibilities. Mr. MCALEENAN. Sir, I do think that voluntary collaboration is always preferable as you outline. ICE does have a responsibility to do targeted arrests of criminal aliens in our communities and it needs to continue to carry that out. I don’t believe that, in this case, nor would it be appropriate for retaliation against certain communities. That said if ICE can’t do pickups at jails, we do have to go into the communities to do those arrests. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Palazzo. BORDER SECURITY: NATIONAL GUARD Mr. PALAZZO. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and Mr. McAleenan, thank you for being here today and, Mr. Fulghum, I appreciate your time. We know DHS is a huge Federal agency and you have a lot of responsibilities under your care. I had a breakfast this morning, the National Guard and Reserve Components breakfast. It is one of the largest caucuses that we have in the House. And something that since I was on the Home- land Security Committee, now on the Homeland Security Appro- priations, that I have always felt was a huge asset to DHS and huge asset to our nation was the use of the National Guard and Reserve components, but in this case, more of the National Guard. When we were having—we have talked about the shortage of officers and troops on the ground being DHS employees, how do we feel those gaps? And I have always been a strong advocate of using the National Guard, especially after their decades of service abroad, surge into Iraq and Afghanistan, and getting those countries under control. And how could they be best utilized on the border? So I think you kind of know where my question is going to go here is, how are you utilizing the National Guard? Can you do more with them? And is there anything that we can assist you, as the Congress, in providing additional resources? Because I do think they are a great plug and play and they bring a—they can be a huge multiplying effect to you while you continue to have a shortage of resources. And how are they helping your agency and your employees do their jobs on a daily basis? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congressman. I just have to say, our partnership with the Department of De- fense and the National Guard Bureau has been just tremendous. It has been one of the key things we are relying on to increase the security of the border as well as to manage the humanitarian crisis that we are facing. A week and a half ago I was in Rio Grande Valley at a midnight muster, and I looked out at that group and we had, obviously, a

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00105 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 106 lot of green uniforms at Border Patrol stations, but we had eight different colored uniforms, including a tremendous contingent of National Guard and that is how we are getting a handle on this crisis, both from a border security perspective and a humanitarian perspective. So, we have had them alongside us on the border for longer than a year under this administration under Operation Guardian Sup- port. What they are doing is providing the ability for Border Patrol agents to get back to interdicting and stopping people from crossing unlawfully, by increasing our surveillance capacity and by increasing our administrative capacity at the stations, and really that partnership is essential for us right now. Right now we are looking at expanding that to help us with some of the transportation and logistics missions that are critical to, again, freeing up agents to do their law enforcement functions effectively as well as just increase our overall capacity given the number of challenges that we are facing. That will continue to be a focus of mine at the DHS level. I already met with Secretary Shanahan on these issues, and we are expanding our partnership in the coming weeks. So, I just wanted to thank you for your support for the National Guard Bu- reau and we can’t—I talked to Governor Abbott about it, as well, the Texas Guard is absolutely one of our best partners border-wide, no question. So, thank you for that continued support, and we will continue to rely on our partners. Mr. PALAZZO. Well, that is good to hear. I think—— Mr. MCALEENAN. Hopefully recruit some of them. BORDER SECURITY: DRUG TRAFFICKING Mr. PALAZZO [continuing]. That would be a great group of individuals to recruit from. I know the mission of helping to protect our homeland. After all, they are willing to go overseas and serve and protect America. So, just a quick pivot, and some—the increase of hardened drugs and serious drugs that are coming across our border, and not just through our points of entry but in between, I know we have a southern border and a lot of times we forget about our maritime border, but this committee hasn’t forgotten about it. Can you just tell me, I mean, with the money that we appropriate, are you able to effectively stop the flow of the heroin, the cocaine, the marijuana, the fentanyl, and all the other varieties of drugs that are coming across our border? And what do you need? I mean is there more technology, more detection devices, whatever we can do to stop the flow of drugs from coming into America and destroying our communities? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you for that question. Quick summary response. In terms of the heroin, the synthetic opioids like fentanyl and methamphetamine, which are primarily coming across our border from Mexico, the investments that this committee has helped us to make in nonintrusive inspection technology, as well as border barrier and surveillance capability, is going to be essential to addressing those flows. And I think that applying the investments that we have received effectively is going

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00106 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 107 to make a major impact in the next 2 years, and we intend to do that. In terms of the cocaine flows, you are absolutely right, the maritime border is the number one battleground on the cocaine side, and that is something with our U.S. Coast Guard assets on the surface as well as maritime patrol aircraft for both Coast Guard and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, where we are having a tremendous impact in the source and transit zone. I’m very concerned about increased production in the Andes right now, both headed to the United States as well as to Europe and Southeast Asia. Again, it takes a balance and integrated set of investments, and the investment in the Coast Guard fleet is going to be essential to maintaining our capability in that area, as well. Mr. PALAZZO. Glad to hear you say that. My time is expired, so I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Meng. IMMIGRATION: ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS Ms. MENG. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, thank you, Mr. Sec- retary, Mr. Undersecretary for being here today. Congratulations to you on your new role. I wanted to ask about ICE arrests at courthouses. Advocates have reported that these arrests in New York State increased by about 1,700 percent in 2018 compared to 2016. This is an astounding figure. In January 2018, ICE issued Guidance Directive Number 11072.1 on Civil Immigration Enforcement actions inside courthouses. How many immigration enforcement actions that took place in 2017 and 2018 violate this directive? And are any actions taken against ICE officers who violate this directive? Mr. MCALEENAN. That is something I am happy to take up with Acting Director Albence at ICE and understand ICE’s approaches in terms of following up on any policy violations. I am not aware of any in my first 21⁄2 weeks as Acting Secretary. I will note that, again, look for the ability to enforce our immigration laws, and to take people into custody, especially who have criminal violations, in a safe setting is a responsibility of ICE and something we need to continue to do. Ms. MENG. Yes, I am just going to what I know to be a directive from ICE about not encountering people within courthouses and in non-public spaces there. But there are stories about, for example, in El Paso, Texas, there is a courthouse where a woman was seeking a protective order for domestic abuse. Last year officers arrested a Charlotte woman and her 16-year-old son outside a court room set aside specifically for domestic violence cases. So what is the priority in enforcing and removal operations? And how do you justify prioritizing the arrest of vulnerable survivors of domestic violence like these folks over more serious criminals? Mr. MCALEENAN. I am not going to be able to comment on specific cases here, but happy to take those back and look into them. But very clearly, ICE’s priorities are to protect communities. ICE goes after criminal violators who are also here unlawfully, goes after fugitives who have been issued final orders and remain in the United States, and ensures effective immigration enforcement on

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00107 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 108 recent border crossers so that we maintain some integrity of the system at the border. And that will remain the priority. Ms. MENG. The directive is still in force, correct, 11072.1? And ICE should be following that directive, correct? Mr. MCALEENAN. I will make sure we get you a briefing from ICE on those policies. DETENTION: CHILDREN Ms. MENG. Okay. I wanted to ask about another news article where CBP detained a 9-year-old U.S. citizen child who presented her passport, she was detained for over 30 hours at a port of entry. Why was this child detained? Mr. MCALEENAN. So again, in terms of speaking about specific cases, happy to do that in another setting with a privacy waiver. I can assure you that CBP stopping a child is for the child’s own concern, for the child’s safety and welfare, for the concern about whether—what is being presented to them is accurate, not for any other purpose. But we will be happy to give you a briefing. If you have a privacy waiver from the family, we can talk about the specific case in depth. Ms. MENG. I appreciate that. How frequently do cases like this happen? I know you can’t go into specifics, but just in general how often are minors detained? And how long does it take or what protocol happens to confirm their identity and citizenship? Is it usually like 30 hours or is it less, is it more? Mr. MCALEENAN. So it is not common for children younger than 10 to present without an adult crossing the border. Determining who should have custody and care of that child and working with a consulate can take a while, but it is often done within a matter of hours. That is our strong preference. What we are facing right now though, Congressman, that I just want to highlight is a situation where children are being used to cross the border as purported family units when they don’t have that relationship. We have had more than 3,500 cases this year. That is why ICE and homeland security investigations have deployed teams to both El Paso and Rio Grande Valley to address child smuggling and ensure that we are protecting children who are being used as pawns to cross the border right now. It is a very dangerous scenario. Ms. MENG. Where would these children—I appreciate that explanation. Where would children like this be held? Are they in a cage? Are they behind bars? Or what type of space while they are waiting to verify their identity? Mr. MCALEENAN. At a port of entry, I am pretty sure they probably stay with an officer in an office setting during that time frame. Ms. MENG. And that is the protocol? Mr. MCALEENAN. That is a protocol to take care of children in the best possible setting we can, given the other challenges we are facing at the border. Ms. MENG. Thank you, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Before I go to Mr. Aguilar, I would just like to point out for one thing with regards to what Ms. Meng was say-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00108 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 109 ing that would you give us the percentage of actually of people who have fraudulent documentations. My understanding that is very small compared to a majority of those who come with their children, so I would appreciate that. And then also, just for a point of clarification, with regards to ICE and the arrests that it is making, nobody is objecting to the fact that ICE will go after criminals who are a danger to our public safety. That is not the issue. The issue is that ICE has been going into communities, arresting people who are dropping their children off at school, who are coming out of church, who are not hardened criminals who present a danger to public safety. And then when they do go after someone who, perhaps, let’s say is a danger to public safety, that in that process they also will go and arrest others who are not the target, who very often are moms and dads and folks who have been living in the community and contributing to that community. That is where the concern is and that is where the objection is, not that ICE goes after criminals who are a danger to public safety. And with that, I will now call on Mr. Aguilar. DEFERRED ACTION FOR CHILDHOOD ARRIVALS: FEDERAL HOUSING ADMINISTRATION LOANS Mr. AGUILAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you both for being here today. Mr. McAleenan, earlier this month Secretary Carson testified before Chairman Price and the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development Subcommittee, but I asked him a question about whether DACA recipients were eligible for FHA backed loans. And he said he was sure that many DACA recipients have FHA backed loans and that HUD’s policy on allowing DACA recipients to access this type of loan has not changed. My question is, has USCIS provided any guidance or directive to HUD staff without the knowledge of Secretary Carson possibly about the FHA program specifically? Mr. MCALEENAN. I will have to get back to you on that one, Con- gressman, I am not aware. QUALITY ASSURANCE SURVEILLANCE PLAN Mr. AGUILAR. Okay. My next question. In January, the OIG published a report indicating that ICE fails to consistently include its quality assurance surveillance plan in facility contracts. QASP is critical to ensuring the facilities meet performance based national detention standards, which require that detention facilities are safe for detainees and staff, however, QASP was only included in 28 out of 106 detention contracts. ICE provided waivers to facilities that exhibited deficient conditions and did not include these in their contracts. Between October 1st of 2015 and June 30th of 2018, ICE im- posed only two financial penalties for those not meeting the condition standards. In what circumstances are waivers granted? And what types of these standards are waived? Mr. MCALEENAN. On this, as well, Congressman, I will have to get back to you and get a briefing from ICE on the standards.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00109 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 110 I can tell you from sitting side-by-side with ICE counterparts over the last several years, looking at bed space issues, looking at expanding contracted bed space available, the standards both at the very beginning of that contract and repeatedly assessed are absolutely critical criteria that ICE is facing as it establishes and increases capacity. And from my perspective, it is addressed very as- siduously in ICE’s management and oversight. Mr. AGUILAR. It is addressed in the sense that they are trying to meet the bed space, I understand that. I guess what I am trying to understand is, as you are going through that contract phase, it seems that, based on these metrics, more waivers are being granted toward standards. So, we are going to continue to hear stories about individuals and facilities not in current standards if your growth is going to require waivers that waive standards for this care. Mr. MCALEENAN. Actually, what I was emphasizing is that ICE hasn’t been able to take advantage of facilities that are available because it is not going to meet the standards, and seeing ICE make those decisions, from my perspective, it seems like it is one of the main concerns in any sort of expansion. But, we will get you the detailed briefing with ICE. DETENTION: LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUALS Mr. AGUILAR. I understand. Okay. You are saying that there would be more contracts if they relaxed those standards. Okay, that doesn’t quite mesh with 28 out of 106 detention contracts having this waiver, it seems like they are doing quite their fair share of waiving things in order to expedite the process, but I am happy to gain more knowledge on that. Mr. Acting Secretary, in February, ICE confirmed it was jailing 100 transgender people in 20 different immigration jails across the U.S. Immigration detention is notoriously dangerous for transgender and LGBT individuals. I sat with an individual in El Paso on our recent trip with the Chairwoman, who was LGBT, and he expressed that he willingly violated the work requirement. He was willing to work a lot more hours in the day just so he could—because he worked in the law library and he felt comfortable there, he was willing to work more than 40 hours, more than 12 hours a day just so he could have that better piece of mind. In 2017, a congressional inquiry revealed that LGBT individuals in ICE custody are 97 times more likely to be sexually victimized than non-LGBT people in detention. What steps is—in 2015, recognizing these vulnerabilities, ICE was allowed, issued a memo that entitled further guidance regarding the care of transgender individuals, which includes recommendations. What steps can ICE take or should ICE be taking to ensure that there is a minimum number of facilities that are modified pursuant to care under that existing memorandum? And has ICE provided any training or guidance to staff at these detention facilities? Mr. MCALEENAN. I apologize, Congressman, given 21⁄2 weeks in, I have not had the chance to go over all of these oversight policies with my ICE counterparts here. What I can tell you that for DHS

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00110 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 111 at large, protecting all populations in our custody is our commitment. Any type of sexual violence is unacceptable, needs to be pre- vented, investigated, followed up on under the Prison Rape Elimi- nation Act and so forth. I can tell you at CBP, the sensitivity with these populations was taken very seriously, including having separate detention cells at the San Ysidro port of entry, where we have a large transgender population presenting, as well as considering that status and parole decisions to ensure people are safely held. So, I will look at that with ICE, as well, and again, maybe we could add that to the briefing that follows up on your first questions. Mr. AGUILAR. I am happy to, and I think that that is the right answer. We have the right guidance here. What we need to make sure is that it is implemented correctly and what we are seeing is, is that these things sometimes, that my colleagues have mentioned, the implementation is the lacking piece. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Wasserman Schultz. DEPORTATIONS: INDIVIDUALS COMPLYING WITH SUPERVISORY REVIEW Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Sec- retary, I want to share with you a brief story about a fellow south Floridian, Mr. Walter Gozzer. Walter moved to Miami from Peru in 1989 and got a job at a construction company where he worked hard to provide for his family. His employer was so impressed with his work that they offered to sponsor his visa. But the company, unfortunately, went bankrupt and Mr. Gozzer’s application was consequently denied. In 2016, the company opened up under a new LLC, and Walter asked his attorney to petition for his case to be reopened, even though it meant having to meet with ICE agents who would monitor him on a routine basis. He kept up his end of the bargain, and he checked in with ICE regularly while his case was being processed. Then in mid-February, without any warning or cause, ICE chose to arrest Walter during a routine check-in at the Miramar ICE Fa- cility in Miramar. ICE imprisoned Walter, a loving father of a family of four and a 30-year resident of Miami, in the for-profit Krome Detention Camp, earning the detention camp money for more than a month. On March 21, ICE deported Walter to Peru, breaking apart his family and traumatizing his children. Now, I tell you this story because it is not unique. At my district office, we frequently hear from Floridians who had loved ones under supervisory review torn away from them without warning or cause. So Mr. Secretary, why is the administration randomly pulling the rug out from underneath immigrants and deporting those who are following the rules of supervisory review? That is my first question. How is ICE making decisions regarding who and when it deports undocumented individuals who are complying with supervisory review? And can you look into this policy and ensure that the Immigra- tion Board of Appeals is amenable to appeals from cases like this, where undocumented individuals are doing everything they should, and are deported anyway? And I have a follow-up question, so——

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Mr. MCALEENAN. Well, I would just offer that due process is essential in our immigration enforcement responsibilities, that it occurs both with the Immigration Court system and in the decision- making by both ICE and CBP. Again, I don’t have the specifics on that case that you are asking about. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. But it happens every single day. Mr. MCALEENAN. Well—— Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. At any given time in my community, you have immigrants who show up for supervisory review appointments and have no idea whether the rug is going to suddenly be pulled out from under them. So there is no due process. They are just arrested, following the rules. Mr. MCALEENAN. So supervisory setting is a much safer setting to make an immigration arrest than, again, being out in the community, which we have heard several concerns from some of your counterpart on the subcommittee today. It is appropriate when there are no other forms of relief available and, obviously, the court proceeding will occur before removal. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay, but my question is, how is ICE making decisions—excuse me—how is ICE making decisions regarding who and when it deports undocumented individuals who are complying with supervisory review? Mr. MCALEENAN. I will have to get back to you on that and offer an ICE briefing on their policy for supervisory review. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. And when will you be able to do that? How quickly? Mr. MCALEENAN. We can do that in the next week or so. DETENTION: FACILITY CONDITIONS Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. Week, not or so, please. And Mr. Secretary, my office regularly hears about community members being turned away—now, this is specific to the Miramar ICE facility, which we have had very significant problems with— after waiting hours in line outdoors for their appointment. They— they get almost no access to bathrooms, water or cover from the sun. I have been there myself. Myself, Congresswoman Wilson, Con- gressman Hastings met with senior ICE officials at the Miramar facility and addressed these really horrendous conditions that immigrants are expected to wait in line, to maybe be seen, maybe not. They come from hundreds of miles away. My staff has visited the facility several times to monitor conditions. The last time they were there, they tried helping a gentleman from Guatemala who had an appointment letter, but who was re- fused to be seen because he had to first register by phone. An advocate—and this happens all the time—an advocate who went with my staff tried to call, so he could get an appointment, by phone for at least an hour—excuse me, at least an hour and a half, but she couldn’t get through to a live person. Even more alarming, the telephone number that is provided does not offer an option to speak to someone in Spanish. Even if individuals get through to a live person, they may not be able to communicate. My staff has seen individuals come from Naples, West Palm Beach, Fort Myers and Homestead. Miramar is in Broward County,

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00112 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 113 and not all of them have a phone or a car, which makes coming to the Miramar facility a financial burden. The system seems designed to frustrate immigrants and make them waste time and money. Why is ICE making life as hard as possible, and why have they not corrected the gross and horrendous conditions that immigrants are expected to be able to—to be subjected to? And when is it going to be corrected? Because I have already been promised that these conditions would be corrected, and they have not been. There needs to be cover. This is a parking lot, a very small parking lot that they stand in in the broiling sun. There is no water. They are not allowed to use the bathroom, except occasionally in the office building. We were promised it would be fixed, and it has not been. When is it going to be corrected? Mr. MCALEENAN. I will be happy to look into your concerns and get back to you forthwith. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. But I don’t want to be looked in the eye again and told that these problems are going to be corrected, and they are not corrected. This is inhumane. Besides the fear of having the rug pulled out from under them for showing up and following the rules, on top of that, to bake them and their children in the broiling sun, and not let them use the bathroom, and treat them like animals, rather than people is unacceptable, and it must be fixed. Mr. MCALEENAN. We will get you a clear answer to your concerns, Congresswoman. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time. DETENTION: LENGTH OF STAY Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. That completes the first round of questioning. Mr. Secretary, let me just say that, unfortunately, some of what was described by Ms. Wasserman Schultz is also what we saw when we were in El Paso—people standing outside in the heat. And just so packed that they couldn’t even sit down. Earlier in response to one of the questions, you mentioned the Homeland Security Advisory Council panel, which recently issued a report making several recommendations related to the migration of families and unaccompanied children. The makeup of the panel was not as balanced as it needed to be, since early last year, a number of the Advisory Council members who could have contributed to such balance resigned in protest against the administration’s immigration policies. As a result, the report and some of its recommendations also lacked balance, and I have several questions with regards to those recommendations. One of the recommendations was to detain families for the dura- tion of their immigration court proceedings, while modifying asylum procedures so that a hearing and decision could be provided within 20 or 30 days. I understand now that the president has now—recommending possibly 180 days, which possibly would be possible if they had legal representation. But based on the recommendations of the panel, in your opinion, do you think 20 to 30 days is enough time for migrants to find legal

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00113 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 114 representation and prepare their asylum case, which could require the collection of documents from their country of origin? Mr. MCALEENAN. So just on your first point, Madam Chair- woman, I have full faith in this panel, a tremendous group of experts from both sides of the aisle, immigration expertise in multiple administrations who looked at this issue carefully in hundreds of interviews, a pediatrician who is focused on the care of children in DHS custody. They traveled border-wide. They are looking at expanding their effort to go to Central America, and I do think their recommendation should be taken seriously by DHS and by Con- gress, because it is a really important analysis. This question is key. It is key both in terms of the changes we are asking in authorizing law for managing this system and restoring some integrity to the process, and it is key to understanding the intent of the Department of Homeland Security in this process. Nobody wants to detain children, whether they are accompanied or not, for a long period of time. The notion that we want to detain them indefinitely or for 180 days couldn’t be further from the truth. What has happened is that 21 days is not an adequate time period for a full proceeding with due process, with access to counsel, with getting documents from Central America to be completed. That said, we can go back to 2014 and 2015 when we did detain families through their proceedings and the average was about 45 days. We are going to look at re-doubling our efforts to make sure that that can be as expeditious as possible, indeed even taking a fresh look at what can be done in 21 days with counsel, but the notion that we want to detain children for a long period of time is just not accurate, nor would that be an effective way to enforce the immigration laws. GOVERNMENT-FUNDED IMMIGRATION COUNSEL Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Another recommendation of the panel was to provide government-funded immigration counsel to migrants. Would you support providing counsel to migrants to improve the efficiency of the immigration courts and to ensure that asylum-seekers have the full opportunity to make their claim? Mr. MCALEENAN. That is something I would consider under appropriate circumstances and we will be discussing with the Depart- ment of Justice. PORTS OF ENTRY: METERING Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. And another recommendation was to require asylum seekers to arrive at the ports of entry while also ensuring the ports have the capacity and resources to end the practice of metering. Do you think metering could be eliminated with sufficient resources at the port, and if so, will you work with us to determine what those resource requirements would be? Mr. MCALEENAN. I will absolutely work with you to determine the resource requirements. We would like to increase capacity to process people presenting lawfully, even if they don’t have documents, at ports of entry. The challenge we have now is 90 percent choose to pay a smuggler and cross unlawfully between ports of entry, which over-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00114 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 115 whelms each component of the system that we actually need to process those who present at ports of entry as well, primarily ICE and primarily the immigration courts. So if we could structure both authorizing language and resources that would allow us to accept people at ports of entry safely, that would be a much better approach and I would be willing to work with the committee on that. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Fleischmann. NON-INTRUSIVE INSPECTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. McAleenan, following up on Mr. Ruppersberger’s questions, we scan very few passenger vehicles that come into this country with non-intrusive inspection, NII, equipment in order to keep traffic moving. But we know that the majority of hard narcotics come into this country through the official ports of entry, often deeply concealed in false compartments. I understand that CBP is exploring the deployment of a system that would enable the scanning of 100 percent of passenger vehicles entering the country. In the past, this committee has maintained a strong position of supporting 100 percent scanning, sir. When will this system be operational? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congressman, and this is the application of the significant investment that this committee made in fiscal year 2019 in supporting our non-intrusive inspection capability at ports of entry. You are absolutely right, we have a very small percentage of personally owned vehicles that we are able to scan with existing de- ployments of technology, less than 2 percent at the border, but it is our most effective tool in identifying those deep concealments of hard narcotics crossing at our ports of entry. So we want to expand that dramatically. That 2 percent is targeted, so it is the highest risk, 2 percent, but we think we need to get to a much higher number being scanned. With the investments that this committee has provided, we think that we can get there in about 21⁄2 years to scan a 20-fold increase in crossings, up to 40 percent of personally owned vehicles. This would be a dramatic change in our capability and allow us to target really all personally owned vehicles that we think might present a risk crossing, as we continue to work with our trusted population at the border through this entry system and our other approaches to manage risk. We will also have our K9’s working pre-primary, and we appreciate the committee’s investment in the K9 Academy and providing different, additional K9 teams out to the border. The partnership with our investigators is what we are going to need to continue to emphasize. All of these efforts at the border of our system, and CBP is the biggest component in DHS and the largest contingent of enforcement at the border. We need that backing, whether it is from ERO [Enforcement and Regional Operations] for immigration enforcement or from HSI [Homeland Security Investigations] for investigations of our narcotics seizures.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00115 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 116 So we will like to continue talking with the committee about ensuring that we have adequate resources throughout the system to prosecute effectively and resolve those seizures, as well. FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, sir. Mr. McAleenan, while leading Customs and Border Protection, you oversaw the innovative deployment of biometric technologies and specifically facial recognition technology to meet congressional mandates for biometric exit, as well as finding opportunities to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of your operations through these capabilities. These achievements have been important test beds for these technologies that can be utilized in other applications both within CBP and throughout DHS. How do you foresee the development of facial recognition technology expanding in fiscal year 2020, and beyond that, for entry and exit at air, land and sea borders, sir? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you for that question, and and really, this is an area I am very excited about, both in terms of increasing our security and making sure that we can address impostor threats, but very importantly facilitating lawful travel into the country. We have a longstanding mandate from Congress to conduct biometric exit of those departing the country. For many years, it was very challenging to see how we can make that work within the existing airport infrastructure and within the existing process for boarding an international flight. What happened with partnership and S&T—and we had that question about research and development and how we identify potential innovations earlier—with S&T, we were able to test every available biometric technology on the market in a test bed site out here in Maryland and determined that facial recognition was the easiest to use, and with the increased accuracy of comparison, was going to be effective for our needs on biometric exit. And as we started to deploy that at airports and we saw benefits, we have seen air carriers board an A380 in less than half the time because passengers are able to use self-service e-gates as they boarded that aircraft. We saw that we could turn that around and use it on inbound, as well. So we are deploying facial recognition now at our major termi- nals on inbound. I just saw it in Miami last month. It is just making the process so much more efficient. We are identifying impos- tors, and we are going to be able to facilitate that lawful travel in a greatly increased manner. We are looking at 97 percent of outbound air travel for biometric exit in a 4-year period, so that will be by 2022. And then at the same time, as we partner with airports to put that in place for outbound, we are also adding it as a simplified entry option so that we can increase facilitation for those inbound arriving international passengers, as well. It is something I am very excited about, partnering with TSA. CBP is also going to be able to help enable increased procedures at checkpoints, both for security and facilitation as well. And that is something that, with the acting deputy secretary, Dave Pekoske,

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00116 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 117 we are going to be working on to increase the efficiency of the overall system. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, sir. Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Cuellar. BORDER SECURITY: STARR COUNTY, PARTNERSHIP WITH MEXICO Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, I forgot to mention this at the very beginning. I really appreciated the trip that you did down to the valley, where you found some balance going down there. Because most secretaries just go and talk to law enforcement and won’t talk to the public, won’t talk to anybody. So I appreciate the balance that you brought there, especially the humanitarian aspect of it where you met with Sister Norma and other folks. I appreciate that balance. And I was there a few days after you were there and I told them I have a lot of faith in the work that you have done and will be doing, also. Couple things. I would ask you to follow up on the Starr County. As you know, we added language that would ask for some input. So it looks, by coincidence, that you all had the 8 miles that you all were looking at where we would get input from the local communities and I believe the Starr County people came up here and met with your office and even the Laredo folks came up and they were saying Look, we are willing to do this. What did you all do in Starr County that said instead of 8 miles, we will get rid of 4 miles? And it happens to be that those 4 miles are within the city limits where the language applies. So, it looks like somebody is trying to circumvent the legislative language that we added that was very simple input. Might be a coincidence but I would ask you to take a look at that, number one. Because I mean, nothing wrong to get local input as to the design or the alignment of the infrastructure. And the other thing is, I was in Mexico City with folks from Pelosi’s office, Ways and Means, we were there on labor reform with the Senate and they just passed it yesterday. And I just happened to be with Tonatiuh Guillen, which I think you know, he is the head of the Mexican Migration Institute. And it just happened to be at that time, 1,300 roughly, mainly Cuban prisoners had es- caped. He and I spoke. And to be very straightforward what I told him, I said I think those folks that escape should be reported to CBP as people that violated the law down there in Mexico and that should be taken into consideration when they ask for asylum. My personal opinion on that but I told him they should contact Home- land on that. The reason I am bringing all of this up is because I think we need to give Mexico a little bit more credit to what they are doing down there. And any work or any help that you can give them— because they don’t want to be seen as doing America’s dirty work, to be quite honest. But they are trying to do their part in talking to him and talking to the chief of staff or the president, Mr. Alfonso Romo and other folks. They are hoping that they can detain and return 600 to 800 people a day. Let’s say 800 people a day, those are 800 people a day

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TRAINING FACILITIES Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, I want to go back to the hiring challenges that the department faces because that is just part of it. After you hire them, then you have to train them. And I read in one of the inspector general’s reports that a lack of funding for training facilities

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VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00119 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 120 population, so that we don’t create that subculture where they are victimized, not only by others in the community, but by their own community. As we got into that culture, we found that rape and domestic violence was just off the chain. And so I think it is important that folks understand that they have that U visa capability at their disposal. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congressman. You have highlighted, I think, two important programs that we maintain, both 287(g) partnerships, in the correctional environment. Again, that is the most efficient, safest way to ensure that those who could threaten the community, also here unlawfully, are taken into custody. Thank you for your partnership when you were in Jacksonville. And then the second piece of your point, the concern that the most vulnerable populations in our communities are going to be victims. And really, the U visa is an appropriate tool for that and we do encourage local law enforcement to work with us and the De- partment of State to utilize that effectively. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you very much. And I see my time is up. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Price. IMMIGRATION: PARTNERSHIP WITH CENTRAL AMERICA Mr. PRICE. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Secretary, I want to raise an interdepartmental budget issue for you. It is one on which you have expressed very strong views in your previous position, but it has a new relevance to you now at the secretarial level. And that has to do with remedial actions with respect to the flow of migrants from the triangle countries of Central America. Border Patrol agents, as you well know, are overwhelmingly encountering families and children who are seeking refuge from in- stability and violence, and just a humanitarian disaster in these home countries. They are proactively seeking out your agents for help. This is a well-documented phenomenon. We, earlier in 2016, when this flow first started, we were able to increase support on a bipartisan basis, for home country efforts to improve conditions and increase security. As you well know, this isn’t mainly a border security issue, mili- tarizing our border or erecting a wall. That is not going to stem this tide of refugees or asylees. They are turning themselves in. Our approach to border security needs to start 1,500 miles south. Now, you have previously briefed this subcommittee, and specifically on March 12 of this year, on just that, on how improving conditions in Central America is a key component in solving our own humanitarian crisis at the southern border. And I remember at the time, thinking this was encouraging. The briefing addressed what you called push factors, and the care for vulnerable populations. And number one, you placed the matter of support for Central American security and prosperity. Address the push factors—I am quoting here—address the push factors by fostering economic opportunity and reduced poverty and hunger.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00120 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 121 Well, this administration hasn’t gotten that message. In fact, the budgets each year have cut aid to these Central American countries and to the nonprofits and other organizations providing these services, they have proposed cuts year after year after year. In some cases, this committee and the State and Foreign Ops Com- mittee has put the money back. But this has reached a new level. And as often happens, we have learned about it by tweet. Here is what the president said on Octo- ber 22 of last year, I am quoting. Guatemala, Honduras and El Sal- vador were not able to do the job of stopping people from leaving their country and coming illegally to the U.S. We will now begin cutting off or substantially reducing the massive foreign aid routinely given to them. In other words, the experiment is over, I suppose. And we are now going to punish these countries for not solving their problems and cut off aid completely. And as you well know, the State Depart- ment is now looking to suspend the aid in the pipeline from 2017 and 2018 to these Northern Triangle—not to the governments necessarily, but to the organizations doing this good work. So you can imagine my questions about this. Does one department talk to the other in this administration? Do these cuts square with your previously stated goals of supporting Central American security and prosperity? What are you doing at this moment to make your views known? If your views remain the same, what are you doing to make your views known to the White House and OMB and the man at the top? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congressman. As I have told this committee before and expressed publicly at multiple points, this regional phenomenon requires a multifaceted strategy that addresses not only the border security investments that we have talked about extensively this morning, but restoring integrity to the immigration system and addressing those vulnerabilities in our law. Those are the two things that we control on the U.S. side, but it is also going to require our regional partnerships to be enhanced, as with Mex- ico, as I just answered with Congressman Cuellar, as well as with Central America. And I don’t intend to stop working with Central America, and have not suggested that I should. During my first week as Acting Secretary, I met with the Minister of Public Security from Guate- mala, talking about joint operations against human smugglers and transnational criminal organizations that are exploiting the Guate- malan populace. But I do respect the secretary of State’s views, as well as the president’s, that if we are going to provide aid to Cen- tral America, it needs to be targeted, it needs to be effective, and it needs to advance American interest and actually reduce the root causes of migration. Mr. PRICE. But it doesn’t necessarily need to be zero. Mr. MCALEENAN. And we need accountable partners to make sure it is effective. So, I will be working within that process to ad- vise along the side of the Department of State on programs that I think can make an impact for consideration at the White House, and I will continue to give my best advice to my leadership on the appropriate way to manage this regional problem and phenomenon.

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Mr. PRICE. Thank you. And as I don’t need to underscore probably, that this is, of course, newly relevant to you now in your role as secretary and I hope you will use this opportunity to push forward what your view in the past has been as to how to approach this challenge. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Aguilar. DETENTION: SEPARATIONS, CHILD Mr. AGUILAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Acting Secretary, I wanted to go back to child separation and follow up on Ms. Lowey’s question a little bit. You talked a little bit through the dynamics of when a child is still separated and you have talked with us in multiple venues about that. The subcommittee has asked for the guidance that the field officers are using when that determination is made. Is there written guidance and criteria that officers or agents use when a child is separated and there is the specific criminality that you talked about within that family unit? Mr. MCALEENAN. Sure. I think the written guidance starts with the President Trump’s executive order from June 20th of last year, as well as the court order in the Ms. L case, interpreted and applied to our field elements through operational direction at CBP, and I believe ICE, as well. I do think, as Acting Secretary, I will have an opportunity to look at how that process is working and ensure that we have consistent and strong policies for what is obviously a very sensitive matter that needs to be handled delicately and with appropriate safe- guards. So, we will make sure to look at that across the organization. Mr. AGUILAR. The executive order doesn’t talk about the specific levels of criminality though, whether incarceration time is used, whether length of time is a factor, violent versus non-violent which it would be important. I guess what I am trying to ask is, you have multiple sectors underneath you in that respect that could be implementing variations of the same policy. There is nothing written that says what level of criminality, non-violent, violent, when a child is separated? Mr. MCALEENAN. So, there is operational guidance that goes out into the field of both components, but I think you raise an important point, because we are going to need officer and agent discretion in some of these decisions, right? An arrest for child abuse without a conviction might be more probative into that risk for a parent than say a conviction for wire fraud. It has to be evaluated in terms of both a specific offense, the risk to the child, and the severity in terms of a conviction or a sen- tence. So, I think, again, taking an opportunity to look across the department in this new role, to ensure we have consistent and effective guidance is one I will undertake. Mr. AGUILAR. I just want to understand that your answer is, as you understand right now, there is nothing written to that level of specificity? Mr. MCALEENAN. I don’t know—I haven’t read ICE’s policies on this matter yet, but I will. I know that CBP has given good guid-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00122 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 123 ance, but also discretion to the frontline officers, and I have seen effective implementation of that guidance. WORKSITE INVESTIGATIONS Mr. AGUILAR. Okay, thank you. DHS—next question—has increased the number of worksite investigations and in some high-profile cases businesses were ordered to pay more than $10 million in judicial fines. Homeland Security investigations, EAD, is quoted as saying, employers who use an illegal workforce as part of their business model puts business that do follow the law at a competitive disadvantage. Do you agree with that? Mr. MCALEENAN. I do. Mr. AGUILAR. It has been reported that there are multiple individuals who have worked for the Trump Organization without legal status. Can you ensure that the Department won’t play favorites on who HSI is deployed to in the business setting? Mr. MCALEENAN. So, HSI’s efforts will remain targeted at the most significant violators. They had a worksite enforcement operation that made 300 arrests just earlier this month. It is a significant issue that they are going to follow up on to ensure that we have integrity in the entire process. Mr. AGUILAR. Earlier this month, Chairman Thompson sent a letter to you about this specifically. ICE hasn’t provided an answer. Can you let us know what the timeline for an answer might be? Mr. MCALEENAN. For Chairman Thompson’s letter on which issue? Mr. AGUILAR. Yes, this would be on HSI investigations and specifically the Trump Organization. Mr. MCALEENAN. I will get you a response from HSI as soon as we can. IMMIGRATION: FRAUDULENT FAMILIES Mr. AGUILAR. You mentioned that there are 3,500 cases of fraudulent families, and the Chairwoman asked for some important follow up information and I also look forward to seeing that. We understand that part of the issue is the definition of families, you mentioned, within TVPRA, can you give us some clarity on fraudulent families you are talking about? Does this apply to aunts and uncles, for example? Under your number of 3,500, would it be considered fraudulent family if an uncle brought a minor with them? Is that the largest part of the fraudulent family, I guess, bucket that you have described? Mr. MCALEENAN. So, this is going to be an area of intense focus for the department in the coming weeks and months. We are going to learn a lot from these HSI teams that have deployed to El Paso and Rio Grande Valley. They are bringing forensic interviewers, and they are bringing biometric capability to try to ensure that we establish those family relationships with clarity. What I am very concerned about right now, Congressman, is that we don’t have the time, given the volume and flow, to do good interviews with each family that is crossing. And so, I am very afraid that we are missing cases where there is not a clear family

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00123 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 124 relationship. But to your point, we need to establish a clear definition. We need to establish consistent metrics across CBP and ICE for capturing when that family relationship has been presented as a fraudulent relationship. That doesn’t mean a grandmother or an aunt necessarily with a child saying, we are a family, and us determining that is not definitely within the TVPRA. I wouldn’t call that fraud. I think we need to be very clear in what we are reporting to Con- gress, clarifier metrics, but also, we need to have a significant focus on this with both CBP and HSI working in tandem to identify and address people that are presenting as families when they are not, especially if they have brought a child across more than once. We have seen that in a number of cases that HSI is working right now. Mr. AGUILAR. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. DETENTION: FACILITY POLICIES Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. That completes round two. And I do have a few more questions that I would like to ask. One of them has to do with following up on what Mr. Aguilar mentioned in an earlier round of questioning, that has to do with the reports of—the OIG and the GAO reports that were quite dam- aging with regards to unacceptable standard conditions at ICE detention facilities. And if you read the reports, you can see that there is reasonable concerns about the conditions at these facilities and the fact that ICE continues to give waivers to them. One of the things that was cited by the Office of the Inspector General was that ICE has no formal policies and procedures to govern waivers. And that I am hoping that under your leadership that you will be able to make some progress in making sure that they do create formal policies and procedures to govern those waivers so that they are just not haphazard and that we will have an ability to look at the waivers against those policies and procedures. In the fiscal year 2019 bill, we provided resources to the Office of Professional Responsibility to hire new detention facility inspectors with the goal of increasing inspections from once every 3 years to twice per year. Can you tell us what the status of that hiring is and when you think ICE will reach that inspection frequency? And by when can we expect to see the policies and procedures that will govern those issuing of waivers? Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Congresswoman, for those questions. First of all, we are hiring the detention officers. We hope to get about 30 percent of the goal in the remaining time in this fiscal year, and then get to the full level that was funded as quickly as possible. I can tell you from a CBP perspective that there are few areas that we worked more carefully to oversee than how we care for people in our custody, and what our facilities look like, both with the I.G., our Civil Rights and Civil Liberties office at the department, with some of the court-ordered oversight, as well as internally with CBP, the Office of Professional Responsibility and the Management Inspection Division. We also hired an independent outside auditor

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00124 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 125 to inspect our facilities and make sure that we are doing it in a variety of notice and no-notice, so that we can manage those conditions effectively across all of CBP facilities. I will look at the ICE policies. I am not familiar with ICE’s waiver policy at this point, but I will dive into that in my role. But I can tell you that we are hiring the audit officers that have been supported by the committee, and we will continue to prioritize that. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. I do understand that ICE has been working to update its national detention standards. Can you tell the subcommittee the status of that effort? And can you assure us that the new standards will improve conditions and not lead to the wors- ening of conditions at detention facilities? Because that is a huge concern that many of us have. Mr. MCALEENAN. I can assure you that ICE won’t worsen standards of care in facilities, but I will absolutely work with ICE on any revision of its policy. You know, I can tell you that the last 5 years have been a period of increased standards across the board, for detention and care of people in DHS custody. You know, that is something that we will continue to work on from my perspective, in the new role. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. And my hope is that as those policies are being determined, that we will have an opportunity to see them before they actually are instituted. Mr. MCALEENAN. We will make sure to brief your team and you, Madam Chair, if you would like, as well as work with our oversight within the Department of Homeland Security, the I.G., Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, to make sure that our standards are appropriate. DETENTION: PREGNANT WOMEN Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. As you know, this administration reversed a policy that forbade ICE from detaining pregnant women except in extraordinary circumstances. While in ICE detention we have learned that the number of women who have lost their pregnancies have nearly doubled in the first 2 years of this administration, medical professionals have advised of the dangers of placing any pregnant woman in detention. Aside from the obvious answer that we should not detain pregnant women absent extraordinary circumstances, what is ICE doing to prevent this type of tragedy from occurring again? Mr. MCALEENAN. It is another area where I will be working with ICE. I can tell you that medical conditions of people in custody are taken into consideration, including pregnancy, including late-term pregnancy as a factor in whether to do a parole release or to make a custody determination. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Well, health professionals tell us that inad- equate health care services have been a major contributing factor to these tragedies. And when we asked about a stillbirth at a Port Isabel facility, ICE told reporters that it wasn’t aware of any concerns regarding medical care of pregnant detainees, and that still- births are rare. And it is responses like this that greatly concern me and others because it appears that ICE is not taking these issues seriously. So I guess my question to you would be, is, how do you plan to ad-

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TRAFFICKING VICTIMS PROTECTION REAUTHORIZATION ACT

Mr. AGUILAR. Yes. I will be that individual, Madam Chair. I don’t want to stand in the way of everyone in the lunch hour. Just a couple quick things, following up on TVPRA, as we were discussing, Mr. Acting Secretary. You had earlier mentioned that there would be some legislative proposals as well that would be forthcoming from the department. Will changes that you are proposing to TVPRA—I know that has been a talking point that I have seen out of the administration— will that include redefining a family unit to be more expansive, to include aunts, uncles, grandparents? Mr. MCALEENAN. I think that is something we could discuss with Congress in the context of improving TVPRA to eliminate the dou- ble standard that now applies for unaccompanied children coming from contiguous countries, Mexico and Canada, versus noncontig- uous countries. You know, we have heard from the governments of Central America saying that we have an interest in our unaccompanied children who have made their trek to the border. We would like to be able to provide a safe return for them, but it is not provided for right now under the TVPRA. That is something we would like to work on with Congress. But other changes recommended by members of Congress—that is absolutely the dialogue that we want to start so that we can talk about addressing this problem together, then making effective changes to the law to respond to the flows that we are seeing today. Mr. AGUILAR. You are talking about the continuous-noncontig- uous. That is what we can expect to see out of the legislative proposal. Not putting words in your mouth, not that you would be closed to those other changes, but you wouldn’t be proposing any of those in this legislative package?

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Mr. MCALEENAN. Yeah, the focus is addressing the situation where there is an incentive to cross as an unaccompanied child with certainty that you will be allowed to stay. Mr. AGUILAR. Sure. Mr. MCALEENAN. And that is what is causing children to get into the hands of smugglers for thousands of dollars to be spent with criminal organizations to come to our border. That is what we are primarily trying to address with the proposal. Mr. AGUILAR. I wasn’t here in Congress at the time, but TVPRA was passed almost unanimously, I think, within the House and Senate. So I look forward to seeing your legislative recommendations. Mr. MCALEENAN. And could I just add, Congressman, that the protections in TVPRA against trafficking of children are essential, and we would like to preserve those, and as well as the conditions and timelines for custody of children. There is no recommended change to any of those elements. CONGRESSIONAL HISPANIC CAUCUS Mr. AGUILAR. Look forward to seeing the language. Mr. Secretary, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus was in contact with DHS about the secretary, the prior secretary visiting for a discussion, and the date was set for May 23rd. I don’t want to bind you to your predecessor’s calendar, but would you be open to keeping this date, or to working to have a meeting with the Congres- sional Hispanic Caucus sometime in the next 4 to 6 weeks? Mr. MCALEENAN. Sir, one of my top priorities in this role is to have dialogue with members of Congress who are worried about these problems, and willing to come together to try to come up with common solutions to them. So I will continue to be open to engaging. I don’t know about that particular date. I am not in charge of my own calendar. Mr. AGUILAR. I understand the feeling. Mr. MCALEENAN. But yes, I would like to engage with you and other members of the CHC. No question. NON-INTRUSIVE INSPECTION: SPEND PLAN Mr. AGUILAR. Absolutely. I appreciate it. My last question was just getting a little more clarity on the NII that you have mentioned, 2 percent of passenger, you said ramping up to 40 percent? Mr. MCALEENAN. Correct. Mr. AGUILAR. By what year? Mr. MCALEENAN. 2021. Mr. AGUILAR. And then the commercial you mentioned was 16 percent going to 70 percent? Mr. MCALEENAN. Correct. Mr. AGUILAR. In the same—— Mr. MCALEENAN. Same timeframe. Mr. AGUILAR [continuing]. Same timeframe. Mr. MCALEENAN. We are going to present a full spend plan and program to the committee in the coming months. Mr. AGUILAR. I appreciate the added questions, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Acting Secretary.

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Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Let me just say that—that the secretary has actually been proactive in asking for meetings, not only with the Hispanic Caucus, but other stakeholders, and we will be making those arrangements. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Also, I am sure you have noticed that we have a lot of issues, a lot of concerns and questions about what is happening at ICE, so I am hoping that once you are able to be better briefed on ICE and the concerns that have been raised, that we will be able to have another meeting. So if there are no more questions, I want to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Fulghum for his service to our country over the last 34 years, as he prepares to move on to a new challenge. After serving 28 years in the Air Force, Chip joined DHS in 2012 as the budget director. He was later confirmed by the Senate to serve as the department’s chief financial officer, and I note that he was the last confirmed CFO for DHS. He has since served as the deputy undersecretary for management, the acting secretary for management twice, and the acting deputy secretary twice. Chip, I thank you for the management acumen you have brought to the department over the last 6 years. In these last few years, we have seen a significant maturation of the department’s planning and resource utilization. Most of those efforts have your fingerprints all over them, including a complete restructuring of the department’s appropriations account. The department simply would not be where it is today without your 6 years of strong leadership. I truly wish you the best as you head to Texas to start your new endeavor as the chief operating officer for a nonprofit organization. Best of luck. And if there are no other comments, we will conclude today’s hearing. Thank you, Mr. McAleenan. Mr. MCALEENAN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And he is a great guy, too. [Questions and answers for the record follow:]

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VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00229 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS Insert offset folio 309 here 38921A.166 VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00230 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS WEDNESDAY, MAY 1, 2019. FY 2020 BUDGET HEARING—CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY WITNESS

HON. CHRISTOPHER KREBS, DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND INFRA- STRUCTURE SECURITY AGENCY

Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Subcommittee will now come to order. Today we welcome Mr. Krebs, the director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, pronounced CISA? Director KREBS. Yes, ma’am. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Krebs, thank you for being here this morning to discuss CISA’s fiscal year 2020 budget plan. I also thank the relatively small but mighty cadre of professionals that you are leading. Many have high-demand skillsets and could have higher compensation in the private sector, yet they have chosen to serve the American people, and I greatly appreciate what they do every day to fulfill their mission on behalf of our nation. In the fiscal year 2019 bill, I was pleased we were able to provide a strong investment in protecting the Federal cyber network. This included increases in continuous diagnostics and mitigation programs, and improvements in securing our nation’s critical infrastructure, such as our election infrastructure and soft targets, such as schools. Even with these investments, I remain concerned about the threat outlook. Even at a time when then-Secretary Nielsen was focused on managing a surge of migrants at the southern border, the secretary cited cyber threats as her top priority, she said—and I quote—the cyber domain is a target, a weapon, and a threat vector all at the same time. I share her concerns not only for Federal networks but also for the nation’s critical infrastructure because our adversaries are moving and adapting at a pace that far exceeds our own. That is why it is hard to understand why the fiscal year 2020 request once again proposes a reduction to these missions. For operations and support, the request is a reduction of 5 percent compared to the current year. For procurement, construction, and improvements, it is a reduction of 7.4 percent. If we are to outpace our adversaries who seek to do us harm, this reduction appears counter to what we need to do. During this hearing, I hope that we will get some clarity on this and other aspects of your fiscal year 2020 request and whether it realistically provides the resources you need to accomplish your missions in our ever-evolving threat landscape. Now, before I turn to the director for a summary of his written statement and the full text of which will be included in the record, (231)

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VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00232 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 233 Today, I would like to briefly touch on five of those activities: protection of Federal networks, election security, operational technology, supply chain risk management, and soft target security. Starting with Federal cybersecurity, across the Federal government, we have better IT capabilities, government wide, we are on a path to standardization and leadership awareness is at an all- time high. By issuing guidance or directives to Federal agencies, providing tools and services, and implementing cybersecurity initiatives, we are protecting government and critical infrastructure networks from malicious actors. Binding Operational Directives have yielded significant results for Federal cybersecurity. For instance, we have reduced the time agencies were taking to patch critical vulnerabilities from an average of 219 days to an average of around 20 days today. In many cases, this is better than industry. But we can do better. On Monday, I issued an updated directive requiring even shorter mitigation timeframes and for a broader category of vulnerabilities. Also in January, we issued an emergency directive to protect Federal networks from a global campaign tampering with the internet’s phonebook known as DNS. This year’s budget will develop efforts to centralize DNS resolution for the Federal government. If implemented, we could generate a rich set of analytics that sit on top of traditional DNS services, further securing Federal networks. Next, election security. Perhaps the highest profile threat today is attempts by nation state actors to interfere with our elections. Over the last two years, we have become close partners with the election community. Our efforts to protect 2020 and I did bring party favors, you should all have a bumper sticker, are already underway. We will focus on broadening the reach and depth of assistance emphasizing the criticality of election auditability, prioritizing the need to patch vulnerabilities, and developing locality-specific cybersecurity profiles that officials can use to manage risk. Operational technologies such as industrial control systems are also important. These components that operate our critical infrastructure such as manufacturing, the grid, pipelines, and dams. The increasing integration and connecting of these technologies has vastly increased the potential impact of cyber threats. Included in this year’s budget is a voluntary pilot known as CyberSentry that will deploy network centers to detect malicious activity on critical infrastructure networks including ICS. Supply chain is also a priority. CISA shares DHS’ seat on the Federal Acquisition Security Council. This council established by law last December will provide a coordinated approach to supply chain security. Our success depends on collaboration with industry experts as well. Our supply chain risk management taskforce has brought together 20 Federal partners and 40 of the largest companies in the IT and communication sectors to reach consensus on how to best manage this risk. Of course, CISA also remains focused on physical threats. On Saturday, we were once again deeply saddened to learn of the tragic shooting at a synagogue in Poway, California. Far too often our nation is confronted with another violent attack on places such as entertainment venues, places of worship, or schools.

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Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. Director Krebs, I would like to begin by having you give us your overall vision for Federal cybersecurity, how it is different from the model that is being employed today and the challenges that you see standing in the way of that vision. Director KREBS. Yes, ma’am. Thank you for the question. I like to talk about Federal cybersecurity in three primary buck- ets in terms of establishing context. One, where we were, where we are, and where we need to go. So, when you think back to the OPM breach and the status of Fed- eral networks then, in the intervening couple of years using authorities Congress has granted us under FISMA including binding operational directives, there is no question we have made progress. I cited the patch mitigation plan, the vulnerability management that we put in place going from 219 days for patching critical vulnerabilities to less than 20 now into the 15-day range is a significant improvement. Also on email security and web security, we issued a binding operational directive for DMARC, that has also put us at the top of the heap. So, there is no question that we are better than we were several years ago. The challenge we have right now, though, is that across the civilian agencies there are 99 different agencies that we work with to help improve cybersecurity. We do provide tools such as the Continuous Diagnostics and Mitigation program and the National Cyber Protection System, and those are certainly providing the appropriate protections in place now. But we have got to get to a more common synchronized baseline approach. And so, later this year we will issue a cybersecurity baseline that will establish a common understanding and framework of where these 99 Federal agencies need to go. Earlier this week also it was announced by OMB that we will be serving as the quality service management offering for cybersecurity services, so that we will be able to offer a more standardized security operations centers as a service for example. But to continue going forward in the next several years, what I would like to see is once again, standardized approaches to cybersecurity across the agencies, a better harmonization across services that are provided whether by me or other agencies. We have to continue to push awareness of threat information out there. We have to understand and increase visibility across networks and we have to be able to act quickly across those networks. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. We continue to hear about new cyber attacks on Federal networks and critical infrastructure. In addition to national security concerns, these attacks often lead to the loss of Americans’ private information, significant economic losses. As the general matter, do you believe the Federal government is doing enough on cybersecurity and what cyber threats are you most focused on in CISA? Director KREBS. So I think, again, we have made significant progress over the last couple years. But it almost sounds like a GAO report, but more work to be done. We have to continue engaging the critical infrastructure community, we have to continue sharing information on the level of the threat. When I think about the threat landscape right now, for the Federal networks we are principally continuing to focus on ad-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00242 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 243 vanced persistent threat actors, and that is nation-state actors. So that would be Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea. But we are seeing an increase in hybrid threat actors, and so what you are seeing is some nation states are using cutouts or proxies to further their agenda rather than directly engaging the military or intelligence services of those countries. So the landscape is becoming increasingly complex and diffuse. Back to the critical infrastructure space, again, we have to engage more critical infrastructure owners and operators. We have to get out there and continue to share our understanding and provide them a baseline understanding of the things that need to be done to protect their networks. And in part, to those like in the election infrastructure community where they may not have their own resources, their internal resources, we need to be able to provide resources to those folks. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. And if you had access to additional resources, what areas would you prioritize for investment? Director KREBS. I would scale the existing capabilities we have, the technical support capabilities we offer to our critical infrastructure partners. I would also significantly expand my ability to engage, my stakeholder engagement mechanisms. It starts by building trust and you can only build trust by having relationships and engagement and touch points. We have to do more to get out there and engage but once we do, we have to be able to follow through in addition to building these technical capabilities. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you Madam Chair. Director Krebs, at our last hearing we spoke about the department’s partnership with our great national labs and specifically the top notch work being done at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in my district in Ten- nessee. Does CISA have any ongoing projects at Oak Ridge National Lab? And if so, how are those projects furthering the missions and goals of CISA? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. Oak Ridge has been a long-term partner of CISA and the NPPD predecessor particularly in our chemical security efforts. In fact, Oak Ridge, I probably call them a plank holder in the chemical security program. So we have been doing work with them for a dozen years or so. We have at least two ongoing contracts right now that one provides assistance and back end analytic support to the chemical security assessment tool. And this is a critical part of our chemical security efforts and that is an important tool going forward. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. I want to thank you for that and I think for the record, any time we can leverage the investments of other agencies like at the Oak Ridge National Lab and at the Pacific Northwest labs and bring all of our RRDs together, we are doing great things for our country. In regard to Federal agencies the request includes $694 million for Federal network protection, a vital and necessary investment for the operations of our government. I don’t think there is much disagreement that these are all well-spent dollars.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00243 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 244 My first question is more to do with compliance, how do you ensure the agencies comply with the directives and recommendations for good cybersecurity practices? Director KREBS. We work very closely in terms of compliance with the Office of Management and Budget, but also with the leadership of the respective departments and agencies. As I mentioned, 99 agencies—23 or so of those are large agencies. And then you have small or medium, small, micro, and minis. We prefer to engage at kind of left of boom. And what I mean by that our sense of things is that we can constructively engage the CIOs and the network defenders to help them implement things like Binding Operational Directives so we don’t have to get to a position where we are penalizing or otherwise having to use some sort of hammer. And we have been successful in that. We have not actually been in a position to date where we have to go any sort of name and shame campaign or anything. Again, I sense that the cybersecurity community across the Fed- eral interagency is willing and able and positively contributing to the mission. But we need to expect more, not just of us at CISA but also of our departments and agencies, there is more work to be done. We are doing a much better job in terms of protecting Fed- eral networks, but there is more that we can do. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. As an analogous question to that, sir, can more be done to encourage compliance or if need be direct compliance for good cybersecurity practices at the agencies? Director KREBS. So, my sense of things right now is where I would like to go and this also points back to the chairwoman’s question. What we are increasingly finding is that in terms of cybersecurity at Federal agencies, it is less about deploying tools across the networks. What we are finding is we are doing a lot of work just on the basic architecture advisory services, basic deployment and updating and upgrading, and modernization of the environment so that they are deploying more secure by design and by deployment rather than bolting on security tools. So I think going forward, one of the things we always need to keep in mind is if you deploy and con- figure in a secure manner, then you are not spending a lot of money on tools on the backend. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. Mr. Director, do agencies incur a cost to their own budgets to do this monitoring or applying software patches? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. There are always going to be cost associated with IT security spend. I think if you look at industry for example, about four percent of IT budget is cybersecurity expenditures. So there are cost associated, the people costs, tool costs, licensing costs, time costs in terms of security implementation. But, again, if we can include security advisory services in just baseline IT planning and IT expenditures, then I think we will be getting some economies of scale and efficiencies down the road. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. One final question. Do you have any suggestions on how we could help educate our colleagues and subcommittees that these investments are just as

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00244 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 245 necessary as grants or other programs with organized constitu- encies? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. I think just like anything else in the cybersecurity space, conversation, awareness building, I go out and brief boards of directors and C-suites of critical infrastructure across the country, I see Congress as a board of directors. And so, I think anything we can do to help share our understanding of the threat environment, share our understanding of the things we need to be doing in the various agencies whether that is briefing the subcommittees, happy to contribute to that effort. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, sir. Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Ruppersberger. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Okay. This will work. Yes. But first thing, Director Krebs, I think you are doing a good job. You have got a big job, a lot of issues not only educating the public but educating us in Congress. There a lot of people in Congress that really need to know a lot more. So, keep doing what you are doing. First, Chairwoman, I want to thank you for having this hearing. It is the second time we have had you here. That is in my opinion very positive, because I think we need to make cybersecurity a high priority and we have a long way to go, as you know, our entire .gov system and what we are doing in the whole country. And the more that we can focus with you and you can work with us so we could help you with your resources, the better we are going to be, because it’s serious threat, an example of that and then that is going to be question. But I think Commerce in 2017 said that we had over $600 billion stolen. And that is in academia, that is in medical, that is in space, that is where we go. And a lot of it is China, but there are other countries too that they are stealing a lot. So I just want to acknowledge that and thank you for making this issue a priority. My question, last week I think you spoke at the Atlantic Coun- cil’s International Conference. We were following you around so we would know what you are doing. We are your board of directors, on cyber engagement. And you highlighted among other items, the continued intellectual property theft, assault on our country by foreign adversaries. The U.S. Trade Representative as I said estimated in 2017 there was over $600 billion that was stolen. We need to deter bad actors while simultaneously providing support and security to those who need help. Now, in your opinion, how important the Department of Home- land Security Emergency Directive Authority—can you give us any studies for example of how the use of emergency directive has helped improve security? And highlight any items in your fiscal year 20 budget that incorporate lessons learned from previous emergency directives? Did you get it? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. Thank you. The Emergency Directive Authority and thank you for the Atlantic Council reference, that was a good event and I had some interesting Q&A and I think your staff was there for that. The Emergency Directive Authority is an important tool in the toolkit that we use sparingly and we use it in a pragmatic fashion.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00245 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 246 We used our first emergency directive earlier this year in January during the government shutdown, I think I spoke about that in the last time I was with you. But we working with the industry had detected in global scale a DNS tampering campaign effectively, as I mentioned at my opening, messing around with the internet’s phonebook. We have included in the 2020 request a line that would allow us to put us on a path to implement a more holistic approach to DNS management across the Federal government, rather than agencies doing their own DNS records management, this will put us on a path of more centralized services, that would allow us the ability to lock down DNS as well as understand how the adversary may be exploiting DNS. As it so happens, malware tends to communicate with its C2, its command and control infrastructure oftentimes using DNS. So it would put us on top of that, be able to see it and stop it. We actually modeled this in part after an approach the United Kingdom has taken with their public DNS service, the National Cy- bersecurity Center, my counterpart in the U.K., they have taken, they are implementing this service. And so we are looking at their success and this is a bit of an example of how I look at my international partners as a bit of a test lab. So if I see good things that other countries are doing, I try to bring it back here. And so this is just one example. But is also informed by our January experience with emergency directives. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Also, as you know 80 percent of the network is controlled by the private sector. Do you work closely with the key players and the people who know what they are doing in the commercial side? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. Between the ISPs, the registrars, the registries, we have a network of partners, and we work with them in a couple different ways but we have some of them within the National Communications Center at our NCCIC facility in Virginia. We actually have telco representatives—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Could you explain what do you think is sort of—— Director KREBS [continuing]. The National Cybersecurity and Communications Integration Center, you are all welcome to come over and visit and I invite you to come, we can do a tour. Show you what our capabilities are and who the partners across both the Federal government and the industry that sit with us. But, yes, we have those strong partnerships and really, those are key. I said it before that I see CISA, we sit at the intersection of Department of Defense, the intelligence community, law enforcement and the industry. In many respects, particularly the government conversations, we are the advocate for industry within the Federal government. So it is important that we have close relationships and co-location with our industry partners. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Thank you. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Okay. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Newhouse. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you Madam Chair. Director Krebs, welcome. Thanks for being back with us, sharing with us your priorities of carrying out your mission and protecting

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00246 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 247 our cyber infrastructure as well as our physical infrastructure in the country is increasingly important. As you mentioned, you said something like you have to engage more with our partners in infrastructure and if there is anything that we can do to help you with that, I would certainly be interested in whether it is law changes, resources, whatever it is that we need to provide for you to help you do your job, let us know. Something that has come to my attention recently and I have actually seen examples of this is something called, I believe, it is deep fakes and as that technology seems to be improving and growing, people can falsely disseminate information with a use of a smartphone and I guess I am not saying we need to monitor U.S. citizens by the Federal government. However, how do we combat the use of this of getting false information out that could have truly negative impact on a lot of different things? Are we prepared to combat these kinds of technologies that are emerging, and I would just like to hear what your perspective is and where we are on this kind of emerging technology? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. Deep fakes are certainly a concern and essentially what we are talking about here is whether a video that has been doctored or otherwise manipulated to appear as if someone is saying something they didn’t say, same thing can go for audio. I think if you look back to the way some of our adversaries, particularly the Russians, but also potentially the Chinese have, how they are engaging and influence campaigns. If you think about the way the Russians in the 2016 election manipulated social media, there are certainly opportunities for them to use things like deep fakes to confuse the public to continue to divide. It is an area of focus for the Federal research community and the intelligence community, law enforcement to understand what the, kind of emerging trend lines are and what the capabilities are, who has these capabilities. But ultimately, my sense of things and this is one of those things we are working towards as we build up towards 2020, but is educating the American public on what the trusted sources of information are, how to think more critically about information that is anonymously posted online, whether it is a video or on social media or whatever. But that is probably the greatest challenge ahead of us. So when I think about election security piece, yes, protecting state and local governments’ networks is hard but it is manageable. Working with campaigns to help protect their infrastructure, that is hard but it is manageable. The social media thing and really increasing the resilience of the American people to withstand or be able to identify issues like this, that is going to be the big challenge ahead of us. Mr. NEWHOUSE. That is what I have seen so far that the examples, I don’t know if you have seen this Madam Chair, but the vid- eos of people that you would recognize and their mouths are making the words but it is kind of rudimentary at this point but as with everything it will get more sophisticated. Director KREBS. And how much more sophisticated does it actually need to be before it is good enough?

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Mr. NEWHOUSE. Yes, yes. Director KREBS. So, again, we think back to—there are a couple of examples of things that we saw in 2016. In the state of Ohio, there was a video posted on social media of—that a user had claimed that a voting machine was malfunctioning and the vote was being changed. The secretary of state contacted us. We were able to pass that over to the social media company, working with them they were able to determine that it was a doctored video. So, maybe in some sense it is like a deep fake. They were able to debunk that, get the information back to the secretary of state who was then able to put out a statement and say, You know what? This is not true. It was doctored. It has been removed. That will happen within a very quick timeframe, less than a couple of hours, really. So, there are ways to combat it if you can connect the players who can debunk and then the people that are hosting, so what we are doing is working through on our side some of the frameworks and mechanisms for identifying debunking and removing content. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Good, good. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Director KREBS. Yes, sir. Thank you. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Again, thanks for being here and we look forward to working with you. Director KREBS. Yes, sir. Thank you. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. I would actually like to give you a little bit more time to respond to Mr. Newhouse’s opening statement in terms of what it is that we can do more to be helpful. Director KREBS. So, I thank you for that because I actually took note. I was thinking specifically, look, I have really good tools but I could have the best tools in the world, but if I don’t have the ability to engage my stakeholders, then they are worthless. So, I need to get more ability, more people more mechanisms, more tools to get out there, engage the critical infrastructure community. We are talking thousands and thousands and tens of thousands. Elections is just one example. So, in 2018, we worked with all 50 states in 1,400 local jurisdictions. The challenge here is that there are 8,800 local election jurisdictions. So, I have got a delta that I have got to match. How do I do that? I need people engaging. I need to work with stakeholder groups. That—— Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Do you need more authorities— Director KREBS. It is not so much authorities. I need time. That is one thing you can’t buy. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Resources—— Director KREBS. But I need more time and I need more resources. Congress has given us $59.4 million in the past two years, 2018 and 2019 for election security work. We are requesting this year’s president’s budget about $22.3 million per election security work. When you think about that, that is over $80 million in terms of dedicated election money. That is going to help us continue to push

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00248 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 249 out but again, I need time. I need people and I need the resources to get out there. Once I do get—make that positive contact and the requests come in for support, I do have good tools. But the bandwidth I have for tool delivery right now is not going to match what I suspect the requirement base is going to be. State and local governments is just one example of we could really solve a lot of the nation’s problems if we had the ability to engage on a daily basis and provide them tools. And if you think about the National Critical Functions list that we issued yesterday, 55 National Critical Functions. One of those is election security. Congress has invested to date $60 million in one critical function, potentially another $22.3. So that gives us as I mentioned in my opening a roadmap as we prioritize which of those functions are the most important. How do we think about the investments that need to be dedicated or put against each of those functions going forward. Mr. NEWHOUSE. So if I may, Madam Chair, thank you for ex- pounding on that. It is not a reluctance on the part of the 8,800 jurisdictions around the country or the managers of dams and pipelines and grid throughout the country. It is more an issue of our ability as the Federal government to respond to those requests and it needs—— Director KREBS. It is, first, it is going and finding the stakeholders. It is engaging with the stakeholders. Not everybody, particularly across the small and medium business cohort don’t have the resources to engage, particularly in Washington, D.C. through an advocacy or a trade association. So we have got to get out there in the field. That is one part of it. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Okay. Director KREBS. The other part of is just basic awareness. For too long, I think we have kind of glossed over the fact that there are nation states out there that are trying to do us harm. We have got to continue to push to the message that, yes, there are risks, particularly as we continue to connect to cyberspace. In 2016, one of the biggest challenges as we engaged state and local election officials is the initial disbelief that they were on the frontlines of a nation state attack that a state in the Midwest may be a target of the Russian GRU. We have to get past this. As you plug into the internet, you are in the game. You are in the global game in the cybersecurity space. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Meng, thank you for your patience. Ms. MENG. No problem. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, ranking member. And thank you, Director Krebs for being here again. I appreciate your work in updating us and as a new member of the subcommittee, I am learning a lot as well. As you know, Federal investments in scientific research and higher education are critical to our national security, maintaining American leadership and innovation and fostering economic growth and jobs. We know current and future threats to our country’s cybersecurity are varied and constantly evolving. Given CISA’s mission along with efforts in DHS Science and Technology on cybersecurity, what

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00249 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 250 is CISA’s academic outreach strategy for cyber research and development? How can we maybe be helpful even in our local districts with our academic and/or business partners and allies? I am concerned also about the fiscal year 2020 budget request, which includes a reduction of over $17 million from R&D for cyber. What R&D activities or programs will be affected or cut with this decrease in funding? And forgive the long question. Director KREBS. Thank you for the question. I actually had the opportunity yesterday to testify in front of the House Homeland Se- curity Subcommittee on Cyber and Infrastructure and Innovation alongside Bill Bryan, the senior official responsible over at the Science and Technology Directorate. And one of the things that—I have known Bill for years and one of the things that we committed to when we both came into our leadership positions here at the Department was that we were going to work together. That we were going to harmonize our efforts. That we were not going to work at cross purposes and we were not going to work independent of each other. And what Bill has done over in S&T through his vitalization program is turned S&T into a very customer service-focused organization. And I have embeds from S&T that sit with my team that work regularly with my chief technology officer and are able to identify R&D requirements across CISA and then feed those into the S&T pipeline. Now, Bill does have other cybersecurity stakeholders across the department—Coast Guard, ISHSI, Secret Service. So, I am not the only customer but I am able to push over requirements and he has an understanding of where I want to go. And the best part about this is there really no surprises, so he is not doing something that may ultimately undermine one of the efforts that I am doing. That is not always been the case. There have not been strong relationships between S&T and previously NPPD. So, that was one of those things, we are all in this together. And it is important that we work it together. So, understanding that there have been some puts and takes in the budgets, regardless of where the R&D money lands, whether in my budget or Bill’s budget, we will get the job done. The cybersecurity research and development across the Department of Homeland Security will be done in a professional, coordinated and ultimately impactful manner. Ms. MENG. Thank you. I have another question about the EIN- STEIN system which looks for known threats. What is in place to protect our Federal networks from unknown threats? EINSTEIN provides physical protections of information going in and out of government premises, also wanted to know what steps are being taken to protect this information through cloud computing, mobile type networks, and how does EINSTEIN address those? Director KREBS. So, thank you and I think I spoke about this a little bit the last time I was with you. The way that we think about EINSTEIN, it is actually wrapped up in a bigger program called the National Cyber Protection System. And there are a couple of different line items within, or work streams within the NCPS. One of them is just basic net flow moni-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00250 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 251 toring. And it is looking really at what is happening across the networks for forensic purposes. And then we have an intrusion detection system, and then finally the E3, EINSTEIN 3 Accelerated, which is taking classified signa- tures. And it is important to note that it is the only classified signature capability available within the civilian space—commercial or government. It is the only game in town. And we find significant value out of it in terms of targeting nation state campaigns against Federal networks. But based on the information that we have been able to collect over the last 10 years or so, whether it is from the net flow, the detection system or the prevention system, we are in the pilot phase of predictive analytics. So, we have the ability to understand just in terms of looking for anomalous behavior. So it is not about it is a signature, it is com- municating with a certain DNS. We actually have the ability to say that user usually isn’t online at that time or that user usually doesn’t log in from that address or location. And that is, again, part of the predictive analytics bucket that we are able to—and we will be rolling that out in the future. But, again, what we need is the people and the resources to scale that over Federal government. We are still in the early days. We have some request in the 2020 budget but my hope is that in the future years that as we really build this capability, we are going to be able to invest in that, really roll it and I think it will be a significant game changer. Ms. MENG. Thank you. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Rutherford. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, director, for being here this afternoon and I don’t know how you sleep at night with some of the issues that you face. Director KREBS. I didn’t last night. But that is because I have five kids and two of them were sick all night, so—— Mr. RUTHERFORD. Oh, that is—— Director KREBS [continuing]. Different story. Mr. RUTHERFORD. So cyber is nothing for you then. And so let me ask you just a sidebar question real quick. The KSAs, the knowledge, skills and abilities that are needed within cyber, the cyber world and the ability to create innovation, how does America compare to some of our peer adversaries? Are we in good shape? Or, are our universities turning out individuals that are capable of defending us in creating that innovation that we need to stay one step ahead of adversaries? Director KREBS. That is a really interesting question. And I have thought about this in a couple different lights, and it has been something that has been top of mind for me over the last several months, particularly as we think about the continued online ag- gression by in part looking at China, for instance. They continue to come in and steal our intellectual property. They are setting up a system of laws whether it’s the intelligence law, the cybersecurity law that compel U.S. companies to turn over information as they come in to that market. They are using Chinese students to come into our universities and steal intellectual property and research and take it back. But

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00251 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 252 ultimately, what I have hope about and optimism about is that, any way you cut it, I still think the United States of America is the best place in the world to live, to work, to innovate. If you have an idea, you could bring it forward here, look at the companies at Silicon Valley alone but increasingly other technology and innovation hubs across the country, in all parts of the country, fly-over country or not. It is still the best, most innovative place to work. So, I have hope that today and in the long-term, we are still turning out the capabilities we need. But at the same time, the threat landscape is— it is not that the threat landscape is evolving so quickly, it is that our understanding of the threat landscape is what is evolving. And there is a technology deficit and there is a workforce deficit. Just yesterday on the Senate side, a bill of cyber workforce rota- tional program came out. Senator Peters, Ranking Member Peters is the original sponsor, I think. And so when that comes over to the House that would be a useful tool across, I think, the Federal government to start moving people around, so that we get standardization of experiences and we start, can upskill some folks. The administration is looking at a number of different workforce innovations and I expect imminent action out of the White House on that. So, we are making progress there, but we have got to think about the existing talent pool and getting them in the right spot, whether it is through cross training, upscaling. We have to think about the education pipeline or K through 12 as I already talked about, two of my kids, I have got three more. I want to make sure that when they hit the workforce that they have the tools and talents needed. So, it is STEM and STEM investments. We have got to do a better job at the education. That is not just the Federal government. That is an all of the nation effort. So that is, if industry really wants to be, the technology industry in particular wants to be setting the global pace, they need to invest in their local communities as well. And then also it is the educators. Without the educators, the K through 12 system and my kids aren’t going to have the tools they need. Mr. RUTHERFORD. You mentioned that one thing that we could help you with is, one of the challenges that you face is more engagement of the 55 identified critical infrastructure areas out there. Of those 55, are they in some rank order, you have—— Director KREBS. So, that is the precise next question. So historically, we have been looking to the critical infrastructure community at 16 sectors, which is useful in terms of organizing across the economy in a kind of artificial way. But what we were doing with the National Critical Functions was looking more systemically. What are the things that the sectors deliver and how do they interrelate. So, you can’t have energy without telecommunications and water and finance. You can’t have finance without telecommunications and energy. So, we are trying to map these interconnections. As we look at the

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00252 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 253 55, the 55 National Critical Functions, we also have to keep in mind that if everything is a priority nothing is a priority. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Right. Director KREBS. So, we will have to do some analysis and that is what we are going to do next. We will be kicking off a prioritization process and that will allow us to figure out where we need to dedicate resources, how to align initiatives at, various departments and private sector initiatives. So, I am very excited. This is an evolution in the way we think about risk management. And it will I think really help inform both your efforts as well as mine. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Okay. I see my time has expired. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Krebs, it is good to see you again. When you were here in March, if you recall, I asked you how we could have confidence that the administration is taking the threat to our election system seriously given President Trump’s insistence that Russia did not interfere with the 2016 election. And at the time, you told me and I will just remind you of what you said, I quote, I have been in meetings with the President when he said he believes the intelligence community report, I take him at his word. Now, I was reminded of our exchange last week when the New York Times published an article stating that in the months before she was forced to resign, former DHS Secretary Nielsen tried to focus the White House on preparing for new and different Russian forms of interference in the 2020 election. I guess trying to actually live with the hash tag, but was told by Acting Chief of Staff Mulvaney not to bring the issue up in front of the President since he still equates the discussion of malignant Russian election activity with questions about his legitimacy. According to the article, Secretary Nielsen eventually gave up on her effort to organize a White House meeting of cabinet secretaries to coordinate a strategy to protect next year’s elections. So, Director Krebs, has the President received a briefing from DHS on potential Russian interference in our elections in 2020? Director KREBS. So, generally speaking, as I mentioned in the last hearing, I have been in some meetings with the president— haven’t been in all meetings with the president, but he did agree with the intelligence community assessment, in fact, he is on the record in front of the camera last—— Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Has he had a briefing—— Director KREBS. From me personally? No, ma’am. He has not. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Has he had a briefing from anyone in your department, in your agency? Are you aware of the president receiving a briefing from DHS on potential Russian interference in our elections in 2020? Director KREBS. In the 2020 efforts? Not that I am aware of in 2020. I know I have had to talk to Acting Secretary McAleenan several times over the last couple weeks. And I worked very closely with Secretary Nielsen on this issue. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Right. Okay. But if this is going to— if we are really taking this seriously and having it be more than

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00253 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 254 hash tag protect 2020 then one would hope that the president of the United States would be briefed and be fully aware of the risk and be a part of directing what it is that should happen in order to actually protect our elections in 2020. So has an interagency strategy to protect next year’s elections been developed despite Secretary Nielsen’s inability to organize a White House meeting of cabinet secretaries? And when can we expect a briefing on that strategy? Director KREBS. So, we are working—the various departments and agencies are working on their elements right now in coordination with the National Security Council. Director Coats was pretty clear about that in his statement last week, that we are working together. We have a plan. We are pulling the pieces together. In terms of an overarching briefing on a strategy, my hope is that just like last summer, when we did an all House classified briefing and we did an all Senate classified briefing, we can pull that together again soon. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. That would be incredibly helpful. Did the former secretary ever express frustration to you that she was unable to organize a cabinet level meeting on election security with the president? Director KREBS. I was surprised by a number of things in the New York Times article. I have no evidence or indication that any of those anonymous sources that anything they said was true. Sec- retary Nielsen and I worked very closely on election security efforts and she never mentioned anything. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. So she wasn’t trying to organize a cabinet level meeting? Director KREBS. No, ma’am. What I am saying is that she never mentioned to me that she was told not to bring it up with the president. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. But there wasn’t—she was trying to organize a meeting and that meeting didn’t happen. Director KREBS. Ma’am. I don’t know specifically whether—what her specific conversations with Mulvaney were, with the chief of staff. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. Again, trying to assess the seri- ousness of the administration’s commitment to protect in 2020, last week, President Trump’s son-in-law and Senior Advisor Jared Kushner characterized Russian interference in the 2016 election as a couple of Facebook ads. Is that a fair characterization? And how would you characterize the depth of Russia’s interference in the 2016 election? Director KREBS. So, I think the intelligence community—and I didn’t see this specific interview but the intelligence community was very clear. The intelligence community assessment of January 17, the DOJ indictments were very clear on the Russian efforts, the Mueller report very clear on Russian efforts. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. So, it was far deeper than a couple of Facebook ads, the Russian interference with the 2016 elections? Director KREBS. There were three distinct lines of effort, attempting to interfere and intervene with state and local election officials. There were hacking campaigns against the DNC. And there were

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00254 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 255 the social media discord campaign, which continues to this day. It is not just election-focused. They generally speaking, the Russians are attempting to divide Americans along any issue that is potentially exploitable. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Lastly, before my time expires. Kushner also claimed that investigations into election interference by Russia have been way more harmful than the interference itself. Do you agree with Jared Kushner that investigations into election interference have been more harmful than the interference itself? Director KREBS. Yes. The Mueller investigation was a duly authorized investigation by the Department of Justice. I think the Volume one builds on the intelligence community assessment and prior indictments. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. We are going to need more than a hash tag. I trust your commitment to it but making sure that this commitment goes to the highest levels all the way up to the president and the White House. Perhaps, you need to make sure that the folks in the White House understand the depth of what we experienced in 2016 and really commit to making sure that we can never allow it to happen again. Director KREBS. Yes, ma’am. We are all in. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. I hope all means really means all. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. That concludes round one. So we are going to have a second round. Mr. Krebs, you stated that addressing a supply chain risk is one of your top priorities for CISA. Could you help us better understand the threat and its scope and what activity CISA is engaged in to mitigate that threat? Director KREBS. Yes, ma’am. So, supply chain is one of those areas that as I have talked about, our better understanding of risk. The more we understand the risk landscape, I think the more re- fining that, the more work we have to do. Supply chain is probably the area where that is most apparent. We have two kind of central lines of effort within the Department right now, within CISA. One is on the Federal network side, so thanks to Congress’s action last year, we have just since stood up the Federal Acquisition Supply Chain Council. The first meeting was held yesterday, in fact. And Assistant Director Manfra of the Cybersecurity Division within my agency is the DHS chair, the DHS representative to the Council. That will focus on how to enable better Federal acquisition processes, including building on some of the learnings we have from the Kaspersky anti-virus Binding Operational Directive. We will be able to issue exclusion orders to take action on certain procure- ments or actions, products, services that may be across the Federal enterprise. So very hopeful that this will help evolve the way that we manage risk. And the idea ultimately is to get us into a better kind of left of boom or left of procurement, pre-procurement position where we are making better decisions and we are getting contracting officers and people to actually write the RFPs to have the appropriate understanding of how to get best outcome, so we don’t have to tell people to pull stuff out down the road.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00255 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 256 So Federal side, and the on the industry side as I mentioned in my opening, we have an ICT supply chain taskforce—20 Federal government agencies, 20 IT sector companies, 20 communications companies. And that was stood up last summer after the National Risk Man- agement Center was opened. And the concept here with the taskforce is to bring folks together and first and foremost get an understanding of what everyone is doing across the Federal space and the industry space. So have an inventory of what all the supply chain tools, capabilities, resources are. And then beneath that, there are four other work streams. First, is what is the right bidirectional threat sharing framework? So, if I have information on something like Kaspersky in the future, how do I get that out into industry? How does the industry share something that they may find that would be concerning in their supply chains? Number two, it is an actual risk assessment framework for making sure that we are talking about risk in the supply chain, not just the threat but the actual impact and the potential consequences of a vulnerable or an exploitable piece of hardware or software. How do we talk about that consistently? And so, it is not tower of Babel conversations, we are using the same language. Third is figuring out what the elements of a qualified bidders list and qualified manufacturers list would look like, so we can have— white list isn’t the right way to put it but we know where to go for trusted procurement. We know where to go for trusted products and services. And lastly, kind of similarly, what are the incentives structures that we need to put in place for both Federal procurement and private sector procurement to encourage buying from original equipment equipment manufacturers and authorized re- sellers to eliminate the counterfeit threat and white labeling. We still see even in the Federal government shadow IT, where people can use P cards to go buy things off eBay and others that may not be what they claim to be, that could be some—there could be a case where a product brought—offered by, for instance one of the companies restricted by Section 889 from the last year’s NDAA. It could be something from one of those companies that has been white labeled, meaning they take the label off of it and then they give it to somebody else and they put their label on it, and then that enters into the supply chain. So we need to be thinking not just one hop, but two, three, four hops out in terms of eliminating risk. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. And what more could be done if additional resources were provided? And does the 2020 budget help you to get there? Director KREBS. So the 2019 budget gives us, I think, a prelimi- nary jumping off point for $2 million to $3 million for our supply chain efforts to put staff against our supply chain risk management efforts within the National Risk Management Center, but my sense of things is this will be the conversation, this will be what really drives the risk management conversation in 2 to 3 years, is the supply chain piece.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00256 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 257 So we have got to continue bringing supply chain risk management experts into the department. We have to continue to build the mechanisms for conversation in the frameworks for the Federal government, but ultimately, in terms of actually managing the Fed- eral government space, I am going to need tools. I am going to need to bring in tools, for instance, to improve our—we do supply chain risk management assessments of the CDM Approved Products List, but I think we could probably do more. I think we can go deeper. I think we can continue to expand our understanding of relationships across vendor supplier relationships. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. After this hearing I would like to talk to you a little bit more about some of those ideas. Director KREBS. Yes, ma’am. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Director Krebs, yesterday afternoon, we met with Acting Admin- istrator Gaynor in a hearing on FEMA’s 2020 budget request. This year, FEMA is requesting $9.6 million to modernize five more sites of the Integrated Public Alert and Warning System, IPAWS, and $18.3 million to fund, among other IT investments, improved resilient communications for immediate cybersecurity vulnerabilities. CISA’s request includes $167 million for emergency communications as well. How does your mission to protect communication as a critical infrastructure sector intersect with FEMA’s mission of first re- sponder and recovery agent? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. This is an area of the agency that I actually don’t get to talk about as much as it really deserves. So the Emergency Commu- nications Division within CISA is responsible for ensuring the interoperable communications of public safety first responders and law enforcement across the country. And it is less about providing technical capabilities, actually deploying the communications devices and the networks, but it is more about establishing a framework and including the National Security Emergency Communications Plan, but the framework within which our state, local, Federal responders all interoperate, meaning regardless of where you sit, what jurisdiction, what level of government, in the event of a crisis or response event, you can interact. You can talk. That was one of the key learnings coming out of the 9/11 Com- mission. We are continuing to push into this effort. So a lot of this for us is capacity building. It is getting out there doing training on safe comm, for instance. We do a significant amount of engagement. This is kind of my earlier point about the more I can engage, the more successful we will be. ECD, its bread and butter for the last 15 years or so, when it was previously the Office of Emergency Communications, has been just a steady diet of getting out there, working with first responders, they have an incredibly cooperative and positive relationship with their stakeholders. And it is really truly driving results, including as we think about the deployment FirstNet right now, which Mr. Gaynor may have spoken about, but there is more to do here as well. So it is not just

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00257 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 258 about being able to interoperate, being to able speak seamlessly, but they are now increasingly—particularly as we go to next-gen 911 and things like that, there will be cybersecurity risks that we are introducing to operations. And emergency responders have been traditionally physical responders, but we need to make sure that they are aware of some of the cybersecurity risks that are within the technologies that they are using. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. And how were the two funding initiatives different and could do without the other, sir? Director KREBS. Oh, I haven’t thought about it from that perspective. But I think they all serve their own purposes and I think they are important. And we work very closely with FEMA. We work very closely with the IPAWS team and I think going forward, they absolutely serve very important independent purposes. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. The attacks in Sri Lanka on Easter Sunday were a somber reminder of why we need security agencies. The budget includes a $1 million increase for the Bomb-Making Materials Awareness Program and transitions the initiative to a program of record. In this unclassified setting, sir, how this additional $1 million will be used in 2020 and what metrics will be used to achieve these funds? Director KREBS. So BMAP, the Bomb-Making Awareness Pro- gram, Materials Awareness Program is a hugely successful effort for us. What the additional $1 million will do in addition to making it a program of record will allow additional modules to be added. I have talked a lot today about stakeholder engagement. It will also allow us to continue to expand our ability to engage across the stakeholder community. One thing to think about is the, I was saying in the unclassified space is where the threat streams are changing a little bit, we have historically been, whether it is the CFATS program or chemical security voluntary programs, what we are seeing is a bit of a shift in how the adversary is chemicals in commerce and bomb-making awareness is one of those things, how we can—whether it is in the private sector or state and locals, give them the right cues so that they can look for things that might be included in a bomb so that they can see something, say something. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Director Krebs. I have appreciated your testimony. Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Meng. Ms. MENG. Thank you. I just wanted to briefly follow up on one of my questions about more we can do back home or locally. You have talked about the importance of investment in STEM technology and obviously R&D. What more can the academia world or our corporate allies, what more should they be doing? In New York, for example, have you been able to have conversations, discussions with corporate allies in what more they can be doing whether it is STEM, STEAM education or just R&D investments in general. Director KREBS. Absolutely. This is one of those questions that I could spend the rest of the day talking about I think the things we need to do.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00258 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 259 Ultimately, any way you cut it particularly on a cybersecurity side, success is going to depend on collective effort. It is a shared responsibility. I need to be putting people in a position where they can make the right decisions or the appropriate decisions to manage their risk in the right way, but that is not just about deploying a patch. That is also about engaging locally in the community. That is about investing in future technologies, but doing it in a way that ensures that it is done in a secure manner. I think there are a number of things I could put to recently that are good examples of how industry is engaging. Just a couple weeks ago, a few companies, MasterCard, Workday, Microsoft and a couple others launched something known as the Cyber Talent Initiative, where they will help pay for college for a couple—for students, either graduate or undergraduate programs and then working with the Federal government, will be provided jobs and then it is sort of a scholarship program. They come in, they work for us, and then they can go back out into industry. That is just one example of how we are seeing investments in the education pipeline. I think those are important to keep up. R&D, of course, the Federal government does invest whether it is In-Q- Tel, DARPA, HSR, whatever it is, they will continue to invest in research based on the requirements that we have developed or identified, but any way you cut it, the industry whether it is the high-tech community or whatever, will continue to be really pushing the innovation in the United States. Now, what I think they could do more of is as you look at the global marketplace, as you think about countries like China, it is an opportunity, for sure, for revenue. It is an opportunity for potential advanced partners, but there are significant risks and threats that go along with it. There is a very clear agenda on part of the Chinese government to outpace, outstrip, and John Demers from DOJ says rob, replicate, and replace. So we are at-risk long-term of losing our competitive advantage in the world. There are a couple battle lines being drawn right now and I think 5G is probably one of those, but we have got to continue to invest. We have to have our companies and our organizations as they engage in the marketplace need to be thinking beyond the next quarter or two and think about the next 5 years or so, think on behalf of the shareholders long-term, don’t just hand over your source code when you go engage in certain markets, protect your intellectual property. The same thing, as I have already mentioned, goes for the academic community here. When you think about students that are coming in, it is not about limiting the students. It is about understanding what is valuable, what research you are doing is valuable, whether it is a Federally-funded grant, whether it is an industry-funded grant, understand what is valuable in your networks, protect it, limit the access as appropriate, but understand that we have is valuable, but at the same time, we need to ensure that particularly in the academic community that that open—that the ethos of open engagement and academic explo- ration continues, again, to drive that innovative and competitive edge.

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Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Newhouse. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair. And, again, Director Krebs, thank you for being here with us today. You have talked a little bit about the efforts along the lines of ensuring our elections process is safe and secure. In your written testimony, you discussed a lot of the things leading up to the 2018 election that the agency engaged in, table top exercises and different things. Could you talk a little bit about what is planned for 2020, some—maybe taking what you learned in 2018 and also, how you are addressing some of the deficits that you have identified in state and local governments? Director KREBS. Yes, sir. So I always, like kind of telling the story of where we were, where we are now, and where we need to go. So in 2016 when the Federal government began to, understood what was going on and realized that there this important election infrastructure out there that may be susceptible to exploitation or attack, we didn’t necessarily know who the stakeholders were. We didn’t know who secretaries of state were. We didn’t know who the local officials were. So there was a lot of catch-up and it wasn’t even about building trust then, it was just trying to figure out who they are and get stuff into their hands, and there was any trust. You know, there was a lot of concern that what is historically by statute and tradition managed by the state and local governments was going to be overtaken by the Federal government and that is obviously something that we are not interested in doing, but there was a lot of just discovery. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Suspicion. Director KREBS. There was suspicion. But yes, definitely discovery. So in terms of the run up to 2018, what we were doing was building trust and sharing information on what the threat was and then basic tools and capabilities, so it was kind of that upward climb. Now, we have, as I mentioned earlier, relationships and engagement with all 50 states. And that level of engagement grows every single day. We have states that are looking to do new things with us on every single day. In addition, there is those 6300 or so additional jurisdictions, 7500 jurisdictions that we have got to engage. That is, again, going to take time and just steady diet of engagement, and it is not just going direct to the election officials, but it is also working with their supply chain. So there are vendors out there that provide election management services to thousands of stakeholders. So we need to work with that group of folks and then they can, we can ride in on them to engage the election officials. But in terms of specifics for 2020, again, it is reaching as many of those officials as possible. It is really improving our understanding of where the risk lies in the system. What are those things that are vulnerable? What are those things that have the highest consequence? What are the things that have the highest likelihood, and conversely what are the things that where there is the lowest likelihood of exploitation? So we can inform the conversation the right way so not every little vulnerability that pops up is the end of the world, because ultimately what we are trying to do is yes, protect the system so it

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00260 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 261 can’t be exploited, but we have to restore confidence in the electoral process because what is at stake here is fundamentally is democracy. Through that process, we will also be pushing just like we are doing on the Federal government side, but patch management, really getting folks in a position to patch, patch, patch. We are still seeing some cases where it has taken too long to patch critical vulnerabilities. We will do that, but ultimately, getting to auditability. Getting to end-to-end auditability across the systems whether that is through hand-marked paper ballots or whatever, we have got to get to a position where we have confidence that we can work back through the system and understand how that vote was cast and that it was counted correctly. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Okay. Thank you. Again, thank you for your testimony. Director KREBS. And on the resource front—didn’t address that— there is a technology deficit. There is equipment out there that is in some cases 15 years old. I have talked before about five states that still have these DREs, the no paper trail machines. They are all pretty much on a path by 2020 to remove those machines and put other machines that have some kind of paper auditability within those systems, but in some cases, we are still seeing lack of investment at the state legislature side. There are a couple states that are trying to sort it out. They either don’t have it in their general fund available or for whatever reason. So there is—the money is going to have to come from somewhere. I personally don’t care where it comes from. But we need to get those machines in place or the paper process in place so that we can have auditability across the system. Mr. NEWHOUSE. All right. I agree. I agree. Thank you. Director KREBS. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Rutherford. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Madam Chair. Director, two quick things and I will wrap up. You know, as America’s energy production continues to rise particularly in natural gas, and we are moving it all around the country from where it is being produced to where it needs to be used. And my district has a lot of natural gas storage and transportation issues. Can you talk a little bit about the cybersecurity, I am sure that is one of the 55 infrastructure—— Director KREBS. In fact, the pipelines are, yes, sir. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Yes. So how can you in an unclassified way I guess, can you talk a little bit about how well we are protecting that? Director KREBS. Absolutely. So in fact, Director Coats in the Worldwide Threat Assessment mentioned the security and cybersecurity pipeline specifically in an classified manner. Last year, we kicked off with TSA and FERC and DOE and our industry partners our pipeline security initiative. And so it was working across the country, tiering pipelines based on significance, priority, and relevance to the generation and movement of product. And we have been out there, we have conducted some boots on the ground assessments to get an understanding what the security posture is.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00261 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 262 TSA has worked on this issue for a decade or more. They have issued guidance that has been generally well-received, but what we are trying to do is get out there and get a better understanding of really what the security posture is. And so we will do that through boots on the ground. We will do that by releasing self-assessment tools, but this is a priority area for us. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Have we seen evidence of attacks on, cyber attacks on this infrastructure system? Director KREBS. So at the unclassified level, there, a couple years ago, 2012, 2013, there was some targeting of pipelines. And so we have enough information to understand that there are people out there interested in understanding what our pipeline infrastructure looks like, how the industrial control systems and operational technology works, but more importantly what we have now and in part what we can achieve through the National Critical Functions List is it is not just about the grid, because if you don’t have baseload generation to feed the grid, then it doesn’t matter if you have a grid or not. So what we are getting to is that interconnected nature of our infrastructure and that, developing that understanding, evolving our understanding, ensuring that we are aligning our resources, and aligning our investment, and aligning our initiatives and so that we can look for those gaps. And so next year when we come back, we will say, All right, you know what, in the course of this pipeline security initiative, we found some gaps here perhaps, and so we can roll that into the 2021 budget, 2022, 2023, so on and so forth. But, again, we are building awareness, we are improving our understanding but we have a massive infrastructure here in the United States. And sometimes I am a little jealous of my partners in maybe smaller geographies. We have massive infrastructure here and we have a whole lot of work to do. And I appreciate the fact that I have had the chance to get up here and talk to you now twice this year, so we can share what our vision is, share what our plan is, because I am not going to be able to do this alone, industry is not going to be able to do this alone, you are not going to be able to do this alone. We have got to be able to do this together. Mr. RUTHERFORD. And so let me close with this. And I think something that you said earlier about the students from China and how much a university allows them into research and those kind of things. I think that is an immigration issue that we need to look at. Why are we educating these individuals and then forcing them to go back? Now, some may be coming here as bad actors just trying to get that intellectual property to go back, but many come here and want to stay here. And we are sending engineers back when we need engineers. So the immigration issue is one thing I think that really ties into this actually. And then the other is on that innovation side again is our patent laws. We are stifling innovation by not allowing some of—you know, by allowing people to, in these disruptive innovations be dragged out through the courts for years, and finally these small

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00262 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 263 inventors give up. And I think in this world of cyber particularly, we want to encourage all the innovation we can. And so I just throw that out to you as something that you may be able to help with as well. Director KREBS. And I will try to do this as quickly as possible recognizing I am over time here. The DNI released or declassified last year a slide what is known as the Wheel of Doom or the Wheel of Death and it basically shows the various tactics and techniques that the Chinese government is using to advance their economic interests. That includes traditional espionage, it includes cybersecurity, intellectual property theft, but also appropriation of R&D, mergers and acquisitions, non-traditional collection. There is this whole suite of approaches they are using. It is very strategic, but it is actually manifesting tactically here today and over the past couple years. And this was one of the things that Sec- retary Nielsen, previous Secretary Nielsen was focused on, but figuring out what are the department’s levers that they pull in response to the Wheel of Doom. Working with the Department of Justice, the Department of Defense, the full suite of inter-agency and USG capabilities, but your immigration point is one of them. But this goes back to my earlier point of, I think we have inherent advantages in the United States of America, where we will always drive innovation and it is a mighty attractive place to live, whether you are on the West Coast here or somewhere in between, this is a great place to be and this is a great place to live. This is a great place to work. It is a great place to raise a family. We need to take advantage of that. We can operationalize that, too. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. Are there any other questions? If—— Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Just—— Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Go ahead. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. I wanted you to mention and I wanted to get on record. What is your focus and where on the list of your critical function set is the agricultural food production? And what are you doing, if you could just briefly talk—— Director KREBS. So food production delivery is a critical function, as is water. You know, these are the basic, as FEMA would say, part of the lifeline sectors in terms of you tell me three or four days after a hurricane runs through whether it is the panhandle of Flor- ida or whatever and you don’t have food if you don’t have water, how happy you are going to be. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Basic needs. Director KREBS. Yes. So it is on the list of National Critical Func- tions. We have identified that, and so now just generally on the critical functions piece, we are going into a prioritization cycle. We will be working with both industry and the agencies that have sector-specific agency authority, in this case, Department of Agri- culture. We will be working with them to understand what their understanding of the risk is, what their initiatives are, what we can do together to help better align efforts. And ultimately, the concept here is we need to act, we need to prioritize—or we need to manage risk. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. And more than just emergency situations from disasters, but from—I was director of agriculture for our state

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00263 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 264 and one of the things that we were concerned with was people coming in intentionally doing something to impair our ability to produce food. Contaminations or spreading—rendering whole feed lots inoperable, different things like that. So I just wanted to make sure that that was part of the thinking. Director KREBS. Yes, sir. So, again, it is aligning the threat streams what we may understand a bad actor may do, costing it against the potential consequences and in your case and there are certainly a number of states that would have a really bad year if they were lose their livestock. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. If there are no further questions, then the hearing will conclude. Thank you very much, Director, for being here and I look forward to following up with you on some things. [Questions and answers for the record follow:]

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Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. The subcommittee will come to order. Today we welcome the chief of the Border Patrol, Carla Provost— and I would note that Chief Provost is the first woman to hold this important position. Chief, thank you for being here today. First I want to acknowledge that the men and women of the Bor- der Patrol have faced a multitude of challenges this year with the high numbers of migrants who have been seen coming across the border. I know they have worked long hours and have been asked to do work they have never imagined would be part of their job. While I continue to believe the majority of your personnel carry out their mission in a professional manner and treat those in their custody with humanity, I have significant concerns about the reports of mistreatment by some Border Patrol agents. I am also concerned that the Border Patrol culture may be too tolerant of a minority of bad actors. Understanding the many challenges facing the Border Patrol, I hope we can work together to effectively address those challenges. That, is part of why we are holding this hearing today. Considering recent events and disclosures, I look forward to knowing what you are doing to address reports collected by government case managers of the abuse and mistreatment of children in Border Patrol custody, specifically in Yuma, Arizona. I am also interested in learning what you are doing to improve the conditions in your holding facilities, which the inspector general in El Paso described as horrific. Specifically, I remain concerned about conditions under which families and children are being held by the Border Patrol. Last month, Congress allocated additional funding to improve living conditions in the Border Patrol’s temporary holding facilities. This included providing adequate space, comfort items, and access to medical care. And I look forward to hearing what you are doing with the additional resources. Also of great concern and interest is what are you doing in response to the disclosure of disgraceful comments made by what is hopefully a small, but loud and troublesome, subset of your workforce. We have been disturbed and disappointed by these reports of inappropriate discussions on Facebook, and humiliating treatment and cruelty towards migrants. Chief Provost, every member of this subcommittee is committed to improving our security at the border, but you must do it in a (277)

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00277 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 278 way that is consistent with our national values including a commitment to those in need. Unfortunately, that is not happening throughout your agency. We need to talk about what appears to be a dangerous subculture at the agency that cannot be tolerated and must be addressed. This mission requires leadership that will enforce and emphasize treating migrants humanely and respecting their rights. I want to work with you to ensure that happens. On a separate issue, in response to the recent challenges at the border, the administration directed the implementation of the Mi- grant Protection Protocols, as well as the cross-training of border agents to perform the duties of USCIS asylum officers. I have significant concerns about both initiatives, and will be interested in hearing your perspective on these assignments which are outside of your scope of work and are impacting your stated mission and duties to protect our borders. Finally, it is concerning how this administration has implemented policy after policy that seems singularly focused on reducing the flow of migrants without regard to our country’s asylum laws or the impact they will have on migrants’ rights, particularly their right to claim asylum. This is just one example of how many of the President’s actions are contrary to what we mean when we say our border security policies must be consistent with our laws and our American values. Together we must find that balance which, sadly, up to now, has been lacking in many areas. Before I turn to the chief for a summary of her written statement, the text of which will be included in the hearing record, let me first recognize our distinguished ranking member, Mr. Fleischmann, for any remarks he wishes to make. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Chief Provost, thank you for being here today to testify on the challenges you and your agents are facing at our Southwest border. This is an important hearing, and I hope my colleagues welcome the chance to hear directly from the Border Patrol about the numbers of people arriving at the United States and why there are so many people at the border stations. This fiscal year alone, your agents have processed more people than reside in the State of Wyoming or the State of Vermont. Per- haps by the end of July it will be more than the District of Colum- bia, the State of Alaska, or North Dakota. Those numbers are staggering. I was able to go to the border this year and see firsthand some of what your outstanding people are facing every day. I know the situation has become challenging every week as the numbers have increased. And I know that the officers I met are dedicated people doing their best to rise to meet this crisis. I was very impressed with their honesty and deduction to the mission of the CBP. I think we all agree that camping out in an overcrowded border station office is not the best place for children. That is why HHS is supposed to take those children in as soon as they have a place available. But when HHS ran out of money, they could not take the kids. Adults should not be camping out in an overcrowded border station, either. I think we all agree with the IG’s findings. It is not

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00278 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 279 a safe situation for either the migrants or the Border Patrol agents. That is why ICE is in charge of migrant detention in this country. But when ICE does not have enough money or bed space, they cannot take the adults. That is why you are left with these overcrowded border stations, because the law does not give you much choice. The answer is not more tents or more meals. We need to take a comprehensive approach to this problem to address the patch- work of laws, practices, rules, and rulings that make up today’s immigration and asylum structures. Until we are willing to do that, I fear we will never really solve the humanitarian crisis that we have today. Chief Provost, again I want to thank you for meeting with me yesterday. I learned a tremendous amount from our conversation. Please pass along my personal gratitude to the men and women of the Border Patrol for their work. I am very much looking forward to your testimony. Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. I would now like to yield to the chairwoman of the full Appropriations Committee, Mrs. Lowey. The CHAIRWOMAN. I would like to thank Chairwoman Roybal- Allard and Ranking Member Fleischmann for holding this important hearing today. Chief Provost, the Border Patrol has an essential role in securing our border. That role comes with incredible responsibility. You and many of your colleagues have failed to properly fulfill those responsibilities. It has been reported that you were a participant in a secret Facebook group used by CBP employees to share racist and xenophobic tropes, among other highly offensive imagery, including reprehensible jokes about the violent sexual assault of a Member of Congress. I look forward to your explanation for why you partici- pated in this group and why you failed to report its existence or take any action to shut it down. I am deeply concerned that this conduct shows that you and your agency are supporting a dehumanizing culture, or at least a subculture, whose bias extends to how you treat vulnerable populations on a daily basis. You have seen that bias effect the way CBP inter- acts with migrants. For example, last week NPR reported that Border Patrol officers asked a 3-year-old Honduran girl to choose which of her parents she would remain with in custody and which would be separated from the family and sent to Mexico. I think that warrants repeat- ing. Your officers asked a 3-year-old to choose between her parents. The family was fleeing MS-13 gang violence, and the little girl, Sophie, suffers from a serious heart condition. This trauma could stay with Sophie forever, and asking her to pick a parent is simply shameful. The Trump administration has also continued attempts to implement regulations that run contrary to established law. The asylum rule announced earlier this month would prohibit migrants who have gone through a third country from seeking asylum in the United States. This would essentially ban all asylum claims for those traveling through Mexico.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00279 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 280 But of course that callousness is the very point of the regulation. From recent interviews Acting Director Morgan has given, it sounds like even if this unlawful regulation is not immediately en- joined, it will only be piloted at one location along the Southwest border. Still, the fact that this regulation is even something that has been contemplated by the administration is horrendous. While we confront a serious humanitarian crisis at our Southern border, a culture of dehumanization festers in the very agency charged with keeping us safe and serving as the face of American values to those seeking refuge. You have a great deal to explain to this committee today. Thank you for appearing before us. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. I would now like to recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Ms. Granger. Ms. GRANGER. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Chief Pro- vost, for taking the time to testify before us today. I know the huge challenges you are under, and to take this time, I greatly appreciate it. I want to begin by recognizing the enormous workload that the employees and agents you represent are now facing at the border. It is a job that has to be done 24 hours a day every of the week. Would you tell the men and women at the border that we know that they are keeping us safe and that they are doing the best under the most, most trying times. It is important that members of the committee understand the reality of the ground as we conduct oversight of the Border Patrol in this hearing. I have had the opportunity to visit the border many, many times. I live in Texas. We have done it for pleasure, and now we are doing it to see how serious it is. I have spoken with so many agents and observed firsthand the challenges they face. The challenges your people are facing, I do not know how long they can do it. To ask people to do what they are doing and then face misunderstandings of what they are trying to do makes me very sad. It is unsustainable. I went to the border on one trip and someone was saying, ‘‘Well, what we need is we need a permanent structure here that is’’—and I said, ‘‘Stop right there. We cannot do this permanently.’’ Your people cannot do this permanently. So we have got to have the best solution we can to stop this. These men and women on the front line are in a growing crisis, and when I would go, I would think it could not get worse the next time I went, and it was worse. And so we owe all the thanks and all the support. During the trip I made where the migrants are— it was increasing so fast. In January, the numbers were going with 58,000 migrants a month—a month—coming across the border. The problem became worse, with more than 100,000 migrants a month in March and April, and it exploded to 144,000. It seems unbelievable, and if you see those lines, you can stand at the front of the line and you cannot even see the end of the line as they come over. Unfortunately, the funds provided in the fiscal year 2019 bill were not enough to meet the processing and detention requirements of the hundreds of thousands of people who have come to the border this year. The migrant influx has caused 40 to 60 percent

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00280 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 281 of the Border Patrol to be dedicated to the care and the feeding and the processing of migrants. And when I sit there and talk to them and they would explain, the people that were coming up, mothers with children with no diapers or a diaper they have had on for three days, and no baby food, and terrible conditions, people who have never been to a doctor in their entire life, and the Border Patrol is leaning over and asking them questions and risking their own lives. I think we need to be very aware of that. CBP has shifted more than 700 officers from other points of entry, resulting in longer wait times at the border for legal crossings. That is all they could do. The agency has canceled training and mandated overtime hours and shut down checkpoints, and still Border Patrol facilities, as you know, are over 100 percent capacity every single day. This is not sustainable. These people are making a dangerous journey, but the people doing our border patrol are also in danger every day. We have to do better. We have to be more supportive. We have to listen very carefully. I hope the Congress will take a first step this week by passing the budget deal that the President and the congressional leaders struck on Monday night. With the additional funding available in the agreement, we will avoid arbitrary cuts to our Nation’s security and can invest in meeting this challenge that you are facing every day. Chief Provost, I look forward to hearing from you today about the conditions on the ground and what Border Patrol needs to truly address this crisis. And please send our thanks, and my thanks to you. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Thank you, Ms. Granger. Before we begin, I would like to remind members that they will be called for questioning based on the seniority of those present when the hearing was called to order, alternating between majority and minority members. Also, to ensure that everyone has ample time to ask questions, I would ask each member to try and stay within the allotted five minutes per round. So Chief Provost, if you would please begin your statement. Chief PROVOST. Thank you, and good afternoon, Chairwoman Roybal-Allard, Ranking Member Fleischmann, and members of the subcommittee, as well as full committee Chairwoman Lowey and Ranking Member Granger. You have asked me to testify today regarding the supplemental funding provided by Congress on June 27. By the time this funding was received, Border Patrol had been dealing with this crisis on our border for more than eight months. Border Patrol waited 58 days for the supplemental funding to arrive, but we began addressing the crisis long before. Our agents started working overtime to manage the influx back in January, and they have been working tirelessly ever since. In the fiscal year 2019 appropriation, this subcommittee supported our request for over $415 million to help us make investments in medical care, transportation, and facilities, and to purchase additional food, clothing, and hygiene products.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00281 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 282 For months we have been using our own operational funds to construct soft-sided facilities, surge agents and officers to the border, and add air and ground transportation to transfer families to less crowded facilities for processing. The $1.1 billion CBP received in the supplemental has allowed us to replenish our operational funds while continuing our ongoing humanitarian support efforts. A week after the supplemental request was sent to Congress, I testified that the funding requested by our partners was just as critical as our own. HHS and ICE were in dire need of additional bed space to keep up with Border Patrol processing and apprehensions. We have already seen results from the $2.9 billion that HHS received for UACs. The numbers of UACs in our custody has decreased from a peak of 2700 in early June to approximately 300 today, and they spend significantly less time in our custody awaiting placement. Unfortunately, Congress denied ICE’s request for adult bed space and we are seeing results there as well. Adults continue to spend far too long in Border Patrol custody. We had more than 19,500 people in our custody in late May, which we have now decreased to less than 10,000 due to the de- cline in apprehensions and our close coordination with our partners. 10,000 was the level then-Commissioner McAleenan called ‘‘a breaking point’’ when we first surpassed it in March, and it is un- settling that we are now considering it a reprieve. To be clear, the crisis is not over. While this is crisis is unlike anything that we have seen before, this is not the first time Border Patrol has served in a humanitarian role. The advanced specialized training of the Border Patrol search, trauma, and rescue units has been saving lives for more than 20 years. We have over 1200 agents who voluntarily maintain EMT and/ or paramedic certifications. We established the Missing Migrant Program to help families locate loved ones and to identify those who tragically perish on the border. And we continue placing rescue beacons and location markers to help migrants who become lost. No one directed the Border Patrol to take these steps to save lives. This is who we are. Today Border Patrol agents are being asked to be everywhere all at once—on the border stopping dangerous criminals and deadly drugs, in the river and across the desert saving the lives of migrants put at risk by smugglers, and at our processing facilities providing humanitarian care. But despite these impossible expecta- tions, it has become popular to blame my agents for the humanitarian crisis rather than help them address it. It is not just my agents who are overwhelmed, but my facilities as well. I cannot stress enough that these facilities simply were not built to house people long-term. They are basically police stations. They are not equipped with dormitories, kitchens, cafeterias, rec- reational spaces, or visitor areas like ICE and HHS facilities are. Although we continue to invest in portable sinks, toilets, showers, and laundry services, especially at locations where we house UACs and families, these investments are only a Band-Aid. When our partners cannot transfer individuals out of our custody as quickly as we apprehend and process them, our facilities become overwhelmed and conditions deteriorate.

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Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Chief Provost, let me begin with an issue that was raised that I think is on everybody’s mind. Your initial press release to the story about the Facebook group for Border Patrol agents implied that you were surprised by the racist, vulgar content that it exposed, and subsequent reports, however, indicated you were a member of that group as recently as last November. Can you please explain why you initially joined the group, and why and when you chose to leave the group? Chief PROVOST. Certainly. And thank you, Chairwoman, for the opportunity to speak about my personal Facebook account. I joined Facebook in 2016 mainly to reach out to friends and colleagues, friends from back home where I was raised in Kansas as well as friends that I have made over the years in the Border Pa- trol as I have moved along the entire Southwest border throughout my career. Sometime in 2017—I believe it was right about 2 years ago from now—a colleague invited me to some groups. They had mentioned to me that in my acting role as the chief at that time, that some of the agents were discussing how I was doing, and it was something that I was certainly interested in knowing, how I am rep- resenting my workforce. I did not think anything of it at the time. I am an extremely—I am on Facebook very, very rarely. I use it occasionally, as I said, to speak with friends back home, to answer instant messages, and now and again to try to see how my workforce feels I am doing. Let me be clear. On July 1st was the first time that I saw those highly offensive and absolutely unacceptable posts when I saw them in the ProPublica report. As soon as I saw them, I made sure that I put an announcement out to the workforce condemning the actions of those individuals. It is completely unacceptable and not representative of the Border Patrol as a whole. I also self-reported to the Office of Professional Responsibility once I realized that this was a group that I was a member of. Not only did I self-report, I turned my entire Facebook account over to the Office of Professional Responsibility, and when I say that, I gave them my login and my password so they had full access to my account. And they were able to go in and look at all of my activity over the three years that I have been a member of Facebook. When I mentioned earlier that I am an infrequent user of Facebook, in their assessment, for example, from June of 2018 through June of 2019, I logged onto Facebook on nine different days. Nine days in a year, less than once a month. Sometimes I would go for months without logging on, and then other times maybe once or twice within a month time frame. I am as outraged as everyone else when it comes to the state- ments that were made on that page. As an agency, CBP, we are working diligently—the Office of Professional Responsibility immediately opened up investigations into the posts that have come out from that one site, and I believe there have been some others since then. They are investigating all of these. The Border Patrol has issued—we have issued cease and desist letters to individuals that employed by us that have made—either made those posts or made comments to those posts. We also have

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Chief PROVOST. I do. I would not have an overcrowding issue at all right now if it were not for single adults that I am having to hold because ICE cannot pick them up from me. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Very good. Madam Chair, I believe my time is about expired. I will wait for round 2, and I yield back. And I thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mrs. Lowey. The CHAIRWOMAN. Chief Provost, even though the administration’s zero tolerance policy that led to the separation of thousands of children from their parents ended last June, the Border Patrol continues to separate some children from adults who claim to be their parents or guardians. Can you explain the circumstances under which CBP will separate a child from a parent or legal guardian or someone claiming that relationship? And when you separate based on the lack of a parent or legal guardian relationship, do you classify that separation as a fraudulent family? Chief PROVOST. Thank you for the question, ma’am. Yes, there are certain circumstances where we do still have to separate families. And I want to be very clear, and you stated this, too, that we have to—a family unit is defined by law for us as a parent or a legal guardian. We do have many children that are coming either with other siblings, some are coming with other siblings that are minors, aunts, uncles. By law, I cannot keep those individuals together. But that is not what is considered a fraudulent family. We have identified over 5600, I think, in the Border Patrol what we would call fraudulent families. When we are talking about someone like an aunt or uncle, it is only a fraudulent family if they initially claimed to be a parent and then we determined that they were, let’s say, for instance, an uncle or an aunt. We have numerous families that are coming, or family groups, not family units but family groups, that are coming where an aunt or an uncle may be with a niece or nephew. Those are not considered fraudulent. However, by law, I have to separate them because they do not meet, by law, a family unit. I can only keep children with a parent or a legal guardian by law. The CHAIRWOMAN. Just to clarify because this does not make sense to me at all, and in fact have you reported to the people or person for whom you are, shall we say, complying with the law? This does not make any sense. Chief PROVOST. So the TVPRA and the Homeland Security Act have a definition of an unaccompanied child. And that defines a UAC as a child who has no lawful immigration status in the United States, has not attained 18 years of age, and with respect to whom there is no parent or legal guardian in the United States or no parent or legal guardian in the United States is available to provide care and physical study. That is the Homeland Security Act. And in the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, it clearly states that the U.S. Border Patrol is required to transfer custody of a UAC to the care and custody of HHS. That is the only people that we can turn them over to. The CHAIRWOMAN. Let me clarify because this is puzzling.

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Chief PROVOST. Sure. The CHAIRWOMAN. The law dictates what is considered a family. Chief PROVOST. Yes. The CHAIRWOMAN. It would concern me greatly if families were classified as fraudulent when the adult in question is an aunt, grandparent, or some other adult who is not a parent. Are these treated the same as other cases of fraud when there is truly no familial relationship? You have been in this position how long? Chief PROVOST. I have been doing it permanently for approximately a year, but I have been in an acting capacity for another 18 months beyond that. So 21⁄2 years. The CHAIRWOMAN. Now, you are saying that if a child is with an aunt or uncle, by law you cannot keep them together and you call it a fraudulent relationship? Chief PROVOST. By law—— The CHAIRWOMAN. Did you ever complain or try to reform that? That makes absolutely no sense. Chief PROVOST. So if I may clarify, by law I cannot keep them together, but that does not mean that we call them a fraudulent family. They are only a fraudulent family if the adult falsely claims that they are a parent and it is determined that they are not then a parent. So those are not a fraudulent family. However, by law I have to treat then—let’s say the adult is a single adult and the child is an unaccompanied child. And I have to transfer them over to Health and Human Services if they are not with a parent or a legal guardian. The CHAIRWOMAN. Okay. Now, I want to get back to that because this really does not make sense. When you separate based on criminal background, do you consider the severity of the crime or length of time since the criminal act occurred? What does a criminal background mean? Chief PROVOST. Well, it can mean various things. So that is one of—— The CHAIRWOMAN. I mean, they crossed a red light? Chief PROVOST. No. Not something like that. But if they have something that does not allow us to release them into the United States when it comes to their criminal honest, that is going to impact our ability. And in those cases, we do have a separate a parent from a child. If we have to turn the parent over to—as well as serious medical conditions. We have done that. When something like that happens, we do our best to get the parent and the child back together, or we work with HHS, depending upon how long someone has been in the hospital. But if they have a serious criminal record that leads to where we need to turn them over to ICE because of their criminal history, then we do separate those individuals. We—— The CHAIRWOMAN. Whether the child is 2 years old? Three years old? Four years old? Chief PROVOST. We put them into the hands of Health and Human Services, and then they do vetting on who is an appropriate sponsor or if there is another family member in the United States to take them.

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The CHAIRWOMAN. Now, I would just think, in conclusion because I have used my time, shouldn’t the standard for separation always be whether the parent or the person is a threat to the child? If there is no threat, shouldn’t there be no separation? Because you are talking to a 2-year-old, a 3-year-old, a 5-year-old, a 4-year-old. Is that not correct? Chief PROVOST. Ma’am—— The CHAIRWOMAN. If you believe that there is no threat to the child, shouldn’t there be no separation? Chief PROVOST. The threat to the child is one of the things that we consider. But if you violate the law—and we have U.S. citizens who violate the law every day that are taken away from their children. I am just explaining to you what the law states, and we—— The CHAIRWOMAN. Have you ever tried to get that law changed, or report to a superior that you are taking a 2- or a 3-year-old away from an aunt or an uncle? Chief PROVOST. We have educated Congress in briefings in relation to what standards we have to go by based on the law. As you know, it is my job to enforce the laws that are on the books. The CHAIRWOMAN. Thank you. I think we have work to do together. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Newhouse. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair, Mr. Ranking Mem- ber. Chief Provost, thank you very much for being with us this afternoon. And also I would like to thank you for your service, and also the men and women you have under you, for the important work you do to keep our Nation and our borders safe and secure. I would just like to continue the same ideas, or the same subject, anyway, that Chairman Lowey is talking about. In your testimony we have in front of us, you say that, and I quote you, ‘‘To be clear, these families and those posing as families are generally not concerned with being caught by the Border Patrol.’’ And then further on, you go on to continue, ‘‘Smugglers are exploiting this dynamic.’’ So I would concur with what I have seen at the border. I have been to the Southern border and toured some of your facilities. and was, in talking with some of your folks, enlightened to the fact that there is a lot of incidence—at least suspected incidence—of non-bio- logical children being used to help people cross the border illegally, due to the Flores settlement that is in effect. In fact, I have witnessed myself several kids being brought in that some of your people suggested that they thought they recognized those kids from being used in previous crossings with different people. And so I just want to confirm you are aware this is going on at the border. Chief PROVOST. Yes, sir. That is. Border Patrol alone has identified over 5600 fraudulent families. Homeland Security Investiga- tions has also come in and, based on cases that we refer now in many locations, are investigating fraudulent families. There have been cases where children have been, tragically, recy- cled. Smugglers are taking advantage of these children. They are taking advantage of the families that are coming across. And they are making money off of these people and putting their lives at risk.

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Mr. NEWHOUSE. Madam Chair, I would ask unanimous consent to enter into the record—I have a story from the Washington Ex- aminer that is titled, ‘‘DNA Tests Reveal 30 Percent of Suspected Fraudulent Migrant Families Were Unrelated.’’ I would just like to have that entered into the record. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you. In the article that I have here in front of me, it states that in a pilot program, approximately 30 percent of rapid DNA tests of immigrant adults who were suspected of arriving at the Southern border with children who were not theirs revealed the adults were not related to the children. Chief Provost, in your view, and I would ask you for a little criticism or constructive criticism, do you believe it is the failure of Congress to reform the Flores decision that enables coyotes and smugglers to traffic children for the purpose of gaining illegal entry into the U.S.? Chief PROVOST. I certainly believe that we have to address the Flores settlement agreement. That is probably the main factor that is leading to families being put at risk and children being put at risk. The smugglers make money off of them. They entice them to come. They do tell them that if you come with a child that you will be released into the country, which is currently the case because we cannot hold any families longer than 20 days due to all children not being able to be held that long. We need to be able to hold families together—not in a Border Patrol facility, let me be very clear—in a family residential center throughout an expedited immigration process if we are truly going to address this issue and not just put a Band-Aid on it. That is a huge pull factor. These families are not aware of the dangers of crossing our border that they are going to be put into. They are not aware of how the smugglers are going to treat them. So the smugglers are utilizing that to their benefit to make money and to treat these individuals as a commodity, basically. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Commodities, yes, not humans. Well, in my humble opinion, I do not believe that—in fact, I would agree with Mrs. Lowey that we do need to make some changes through Con- gress. We should not be enabling the trafficking of children. Our policies are allowing that to happen. I do not think there is any place else in the U.S. where we would release a child to an adult without confirming a familial or legal guardianship, and we should not be doing that in this instance as well. But we do. And we hope, I think we all hope and pray, that the children we release are going to be safe with those people that they are being left with. But we should not be taking that chance at their expense, allow these criminal acts to be happening. So I would hope that we could make some changes in Federal law to make sure that you can do your job to the best of your ability, and that we can all be assured as much as possible that these kids are being taken care of. So thank you for your testimony today. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Before I go to Mr. Cuellar, I just want some clarification because we are concerned about any fraudulent families whatsoever. But it is my understanding that the report that was just mentioned, where there was 30 percent fraudulent, that

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Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Chief, I want to thank you for the service that you and your men and women do. I do agree with my colleagues that if there is a problem, there is a bad apple, we need to go after those bad apples. But I still think the majority of your people are good people. I go to church with them. I see them at the stores. And I do not think your men and women wake up in the morning trying to see how they are going to hurt some of the immigrants. So I do want to say that. And I have done this in the past, where I have recognized your offers in McAllen and Laredo for the lives that they save because there are a lot of times that they put their lives to jump in the river or whatever the case might be to go save the lives that they have. So actually, I will be having some of those ceremonies in Au- gust. Two things I want to focus on. One is the Border Patrol processing centers, and the other one is what do we need to do to do a better job to keep men and women. We added money for retention, but I do not think that should be a one-year thing. I think we need to make sure we keep giving retentions or some sort of— I do not know if it is hardship, locality, pay compensation in the proposed language. I do not know what the chairwoman of the committee is going to do, but I have some suggestions there So we can try to retain our men and women at the border because, as you know, Border Patrol was losing more men than women that they were hiring at one time, and I am glad you got rid of that contract because you were spending money, and I would rather give that money to the Border Patrol folks. So I would like to hear a little bit about what we can do to retain men and women a little better for Border Pa- trol. But the other thing on the border processing centers, in 2006— and correct me if I am wrong in this—in 2006, 90 percent of the people coming into our Southern border were Mexicanos; within hours, 95 percent of the people would be returned. And we know why. And now, 73 percent of the people coming in are from the North- ern Triangle, and 97 percent of the people coming in stay in. We actually have less than 2 percent in detention beds, and I am not talking about the border processing center. In 2006, we also had 10 percent of the people coming in were unaccompanied kids or family units. Now over 61 percent of those people are now family units and unaccompanied kids. So in the old days, the border processing centers were set up to deal with male adults mainly to come look for a job, and for smaller amounts. And now you have a larger amount of people in family units. I think what some folks call ‘‘cages’’ are basically, the way I understand this, they are dividers, chain links, because you do not want to keep a kid overnight with an adult that might have a criminal record. So basically, you separate them in three areas: unaccompanied kids, family units, and adults. And adults will go to ICE, and if there is no space in ICE, they get bottlenecked there and stay there a little longer than 72 hours. Unaccompanied kids go straight in

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Mr. CUELLAR. My time is up. But we did add money, or we are proposing to add money, for entry-level positions. Chief PROVOST. Yes. Mr. CUELLAR. So your men and women can do what they need to do and then we get those folks to do the changing of diapers and all of that. Thank you. Chief PROVOST. Yes. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Rutherford. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Madam Chair. Chief, I almost want to apologize for the position that this Con- gress and previous Congresses have put you in. As a law enforcement officer myself, I know how frustrating it was for me back in the 1970s when I was dealing with domestic violence cases and the law precluded me from putting people in jail that I knew had broken the law, that had abused women, and I could not do anything about it because of the law. So I can only imagine the frustration that you all have at the border that your men and women who care about folks are going through in their effort to carry out their job when this body fails to act on an arcane immigration system that, because of our lack of action, the Flores settlement in the 1980s comes into being, and that was not all that bad. But we did not act; the courts did. But then what happened in 2015 was the expansion of the Flores settlement agreement by a judge, Judge Dolly Gee in California. She created the greatest danger for these folks who are traveling to our Southern border from these Northern Triangle countries by saying that as long as you had a child with you, you had a free pass to get into this country. We were not going to hold you more than 20 days. Change the structure from a reasonable time to 20 days. She created this situation. That is why we see all these caravans, this increase in families coming to our border. We have created the pull. We have created the incentive. We have created the desire through the court system for these people to find children that they can then use as a key to unlock entry into the United States, and go on a very dangerous journey with drug traffickers and human traffickers who are making tons of money off of this process, tons of money off not only the—the death of some of these kids. It is horrific. So when I look at the picture that was recently very well-distrib- uted of the gentleman with the baby in the water, everybody looked at that and assumed that they drowned. I did not. I am a law enforcement officer. The first thing I thought? A trafficker probably killed them. Probably drowned them. Most of the Rio Grande you can walk across. Now I do not know about that particular section. But it is more likely to me that some human trafficker killed those individuals, not that they drowned. So my question is this. In this year’s budget, there is no money for Border Patrol officers between points of entry. But in this year’s budget—and I think my colleague, Mr. Cuellar, touched on this— what are the numbers that you are actually going to be able to hire now, that you have currently authorized? Chief PROVOST. Well, I have approximately 19,500 agents right now. I do have, thankfully, 442 trainees at the academy, and my classes are full at this point in time. This looks to be the second

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Chief PROVOST. That is not a term that I have heard as of late. When I was a young agent, yes. Mr. AGUILAR. Have you seen it recently in emails or texts, or heard it outside of your term as an agent? Chief PROVOST. I was just made aware of and an investigation is ongoing into, I believe, a t-shirt that was made with something like that. I have not seen it. Mr. AGUILAR. A t-shirt that was made by an agent? Chief PROVOST. I do not know whether or not it was made by an agent. Mr. AGUILAR. Last week Secretary McAleenan testified before the House Committee on Judiciary that he does not think that the CBP has a culture of dehumanizing migrants. Don’t you feel that at least that term, tonk, is dehumanizing? Chief PROVOST. I do agree that that term is dehumanizing. Mr. AGUILAR. Do you think it is appropriate for CBP officers or any agents to share personal and identifiable information of migrants? Chief PROVOST. No. It is not. We have to protect the privacy of those in our custody and in our care. Mr. AGUILAR. And I assume you have answered this in the context that Office of Professional Responsibility is going to be looking at and continues to look at those. Would they also look at individuals who may have, online, mocked the death of child migrants as well? Chief PROVOST. Most definitely. And there is a case that I am aware of based on the Facebook information that is being investigated right now. Mr. AGUILAR. Back to the Facebook. You said you joined—I might have heard you wrong. When you were giving the statistics at the beginning, you said June of 2018 to June of 2019 you visited the group, or as it was told to you by OPR, four times you opened up Facebook or four times you visited the group? Chief PROVOST. Facebook. And it—— Mr. AGUILAR. Four times you visited Facebook. Chief PROVOST. Four different days that I was on Facebook in 2019. It was nine times in a year from June through June of—nine days, I should be specific, nine days that I logged on. Mr. AGUILAR. Nine days that you logged on—— Chief PROVOST. That was just to Facebook. Mr. AGUILAR [continuing]. In the 12 months on Facebook? Chief PROVOST. Yes. Yes, sir. Mr. AGUILAR. In the 12 months. And logging on can be done through your mobile device or through a desktop, or did OPR—— Chief PROVOST. I use an iPad, a personal iPad. Mr. AGUILAR. Okay. And so four times this calendar year, nine times the prior 12 years (sic) to—— Chief PROVOST. Twelve months. Mr. AGUILAR. Twelve months. Chief PROVOST. Nine days and 4 days. And the reason I say ‘‘days,’’ I think, in the 4 days I was on twice in one day, for instance. Mr. AGUILAR. Right. Which would be common for a user on that platform.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00306 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 307 You said you joined this group in 2017 at the request of a colleague. So from that time in 2017 to June of 2018, was there any data that OPR had given for your Facebook use and/or your visiting? Because I understand you commented on a post within that group as well. Chief PROVOST. I commented on a post within, I believe, what was the 10-15 Times 2 group. But if I may explain, when I log on, the reason I commented on that is because my agents were talking about me. And I will go in and I search posts. I did not even know at the time what group I was on or whether I was on a group. I did a search for myself, and because people were talking about the fact that I had been on a Jeopardy! question. So I searched myself, and that came up. I did not know at the time what group that was on until the posting came out. I do not go into Facebook and go into groups. I go into Facebook, and I either talk to my friends in my group or I do, quite often, and that was revealed in the information that the Office of Profes- sional Responsibility looked at, I do search myself quite often. Mr. AGUILAR. So you would go into Facebook. You would hit the little icon to search. You would type in your name—— Chief PROVOST. Yes. Mr. AGUILAR [continuing]. On that search piece. And then it would then populate within—— Chief PROVOST. Posts that I would search through, posts that would potentially have my name in it. Mr. AGUILAR. The way those sites work, it would generally put to the top of the list those that had connections to you. Chief PROVOST. Yes. Mr. AGUILAR. Either individuals who were friends or groups that you had joined. Chief PROVOST. Correct. Mr. AGUILAR. Those would then show up at the top. Chief PROVOST. Correct. Mr. AGUILAR. And so that is when you noticed that. That is when you saw that. And then you replied to that post because you had searched yourself and they were talking about you. Chief PROVOST. Yes, sir. Mr. AGUILAR. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Price. Mr. PRICE. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Like many Members of Congress, I have felt some obligation to travel to the border to see these conditions myself. And I must say your agents were accommodating in helping us do that in McAllen and Brownsville two weeks ago. I went to Laredo a year ago. The striking thing this year is how much worse things are, how much worse things are. And it is partly the influx of so many people, but it is also a failure to provide for these very basic accommodations, and a failure of policy to get people through the process in a fair and orderly way. Forty men packed in a cell for six people. Vice President Pence tried to put a positive face on that, but the press was right there. They saw for themselves. And then in the Ursula Center for the families and unaccompanied children, people who had not had a change of clothes or a shower for days, and so on. We spoke to a

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Chief PROVOST. Well, and once again, I believe Mr. Cuellar stated earlier, the reason that we have to be able to separate different groups and we need to be able to see those individuals. Thus the use in some of our facilities like in Rio Grande Valley with the Central Processing Center. We want to be able to have eyes on to ensure nothing is happening to these individuals. But yes, it is mostly single adults now that we are having issues with when it comes to going beyond the 72-hour realm. Mr. PRICE. Well, I know my time is expired, so I will wait until the next round on the medical issue. But coming into that Ursula facility, put on masks. Duly warned that there is a lot of contagion here. And so I do have some questions that stem from that experience and those observations. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Meng. Ms. MENG. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you, Chief Provost for being here. I wanted to ask about an issue, interior enforcement. You stated in your testimony that your workforce is extremely strained due to the crisis at the Southern border. However strained your workforce is, Border Patrol is still—they are still conducting interior enforcement. New York farmers, specifically, have had issues with workers being picked up and detailed by agents, and there have been numerous interior enforcement actions across the State of New York that have impacted farmers and farmworkers. According to the New York State Department of Labor, there are between 40,000 to 80,000 individuals employed on farms in a given year, including domestic, guest workers, migrant, and seasonal labor. A high proportion of the New York agriculture workforce are vulnerable to immigration enforcement, which leaves farms in New York State vulnerable to losing their workforce. Given its close proximity to an international border, New York State has a significant Border Patrol presence, which enables CBP agents to question, detain, and search individuals. What type of criteria does Border Patrol use when it decides to question these individuals? Chief PROVOST. If I may, and I am just wanting to clarify for my own, you are talking about—because when you are speaking about interior enforcement, that is generally ICE ERO or Homeland Se- curity Investigations. That is not something that the Border Patrol generally does. Now, we do have traffic checkpoints that come in as a secondary support system that we are doing. And I am just trying to clarify for my own edification. I apologize. But are you potentially speaking to enforcement efforts by ICE and HSI? Ms. MENG. So there is no enforcement by CBP agents in or near farms in New York State? Chief PROVOST. We do some roving patrol. This may be something that I need to follow up with you on so that I can understand better. And I apologize, but we do some roving patrol and we do have checkpoints. But generally, when we are talking about interior enforcement actions, that is the job of ICE. And I am not sure. Maybe that is something that I need to come sit down and speak with you about more in depth.

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Ms. MENG. Sure. We have just had a lot of stories from our farms and farmers about workers being picked up. And so if you could get back to us. Chief PROVOST. I will take that—yes. I will take that back and see whether or not that is something that we are doing. And I will get back with you. Ms. MENG. Thank you. And we would love to—— Chief PROVOST. I apologize. It may be ICE that we are talking about here. And in that case, I do not have that information. Ms. MENG. Okay. Well, specifically I want to know what role CBP plays and what criteria is used when—— Chief PROVOST. Okay. If it is all right, I would like to take that back. And I will get you an answer on that. Ms. MENG. Of course. Thank you. Another question I have, a story about a colleague of ours at the Ursula Detention Center who encountered a 13-year-old U.S. citizen, at the Ursula Detention Center where children are also held in cages. And I wanted to get more background about this incident. Why was this U.S. citizen child held in a cage? Is this standard practice? How often does it happen? What is the protocol? Chief PROVOST. Not knowing the exact case that you are talking to, and if you send me that information I am more than happy to follow up on that exact case, there are instances, though, where in particular children, U.S. citizen children, do come in to our care and custody, for instance, if they are traveling and have maybe crossed the border with a parent who is an illegal alien. So that does happen at times, and we try to keep them together, and the parent can make a call on what happens. I am not sure of the specific case that you are speaking to. If you have a time frame, that would help me. But I am certainly more than happy to look into any specific instances. Ms. MENG. Sure. This specific incident was reported in an article in the national paper, USA Today. It was our colleague, Congress- woman Annette Barragan, who had been on a congressional tour at the Southern border, specifically at Ursula Detention Center. Do you know how many U.S. citizen children are in Border Pa- trol custody? And how long are they detained for? Chief PROVOST. Those are few and far between. And I do believe in that instance that this was a child with an illegal alien mother, who the mother and the child were released on their own recog- nizance. I will confirm that that is the case. Those instances are few and far between. I do not have an exact number for you, but it does happen from time to time. Ms. MENG. If you could get back to us as well, I would like to know how many U.S. citizens at any given time, including currently, are in Border Patrol custody and the average time that they are detained, and the process that they must go through to get released. Chief PROVOST. And once again, if they are in with a parent, we are going to work through processing the parent accordingly and then work to—if it is a family unit in particular, to release them as soon as possible. But I am more than happy to follow up on that with you. Ms. MENG. Thank you. I yield back.

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Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Ruppersberger. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Thank you. I have two areas I want to talk to you about. First, I recently, within a month or so, I visited the border. And quite frankly, I was really surprised and shocked on what I saw. I know one of the Border Patrol agents made a comment to me, though. If you are a police officer in the United States and you arrest somebody, you see them in court. We have these issues now, we have detail these people, and we really are not in the detaining business. And that has caused a lot of issues with the volume that we have had in. Now, again, you are dealing, what I have seen, with an unprecedented volume of immigrants, and you need more resources. There is no question. We just passed a bill which provides $4.5 billion to alleviate the humanitarian crisis on the border. We did not get everything we wanted in it, but we got a lot, and that is a good start. But it is not the end. Now, we need to fix the overcrowding. We need to hire hundreds more judges—that is a major issue—so we can move the people in the United States or out, and they have a status. We have to provide more aid to the Northern Triangle countries. Not a lot that you have to deal with, but we need to make sure that we deal with the problems. These are why people are leaving. And as long as they feel threatened and there is corruption in these areas, we are going to keep having a lot of the problem. We need to bring in more doctors to screen detainees—very important issue, especially with the young children and kids, but everybody who needs a doctor. We need to abide by international law and allow people to seek asylum. That is a big issue, and we have to do that. And these people are running for their lives. And overall, we need to restructure our whole immigration system. Now, short-term, there are third party organizations, such as the Red Cross, who are willing to roll up their sleeves and help out at no expense to the American taxpayer. I keep hearing about the flu and lice outbreaks. This is both concerning and preventable. I am fully aware that these volunteers will need to be toughly screened before providing assistance. Now, to that end, are you willing to open up your doors to these humanitarian organizations? And if so, how can Congress help? This could help some of the issues we are dealing with, especially with a group like the Red Cross. Chief PROVOST. Sir, I do not want to speak out of line. I will tell you that—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Speak what comes up. Chief PROVOST [continuing]. We are working very, very closely with medical professionals—and by the way, thank you for the funding because that is supporting having more medical professionals in our facility. We have expanded to over 200 medical professionals in our facilities across the board. I cannot speak to the legalities on the Red Cross. I do know that we are working with FEMA within the department as well, and looking at all different kinds of possibilities. I agree that we need the medical assistance in our facilities. I just cannot speak to what

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VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00313 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 314 gram, we have been made aware that pregnant women and LGBT migrants have indeed been sent back to wait in Mexico. Since your agents apparently are not consistently following the criteria that you have given, what is being done to ensure that the agents do not return vulnerable individuals? And what oversight mechanisms do you have in place to ensure that outcome? My understanding is that they are given general guidance and that there is nothing in writing. Chief PROVOST. They are given guidance, and of course there is supervisory oversight when it comes to individuals that we are returning through the Migrant Protection Protocol Program. I want to be clear, we also work very closely with the Government of Mex- ico, and we are not just turning people back across the border. We are turning them over to them. They are working with nongovernmental organizations and shelters in their areas for placement for them. The standards when it comes to the MPP program speak to, obviously. Anybody that we have over 96 hours in our custody or has entered more than 96 hours prior is not eligible for it, as well as individuals who are, of course, Mexican nationals and those who express a fear of Mexico are going to be sent to USCIS for a cred- itable fear. They—— Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. I guess—excuse me for—but I guess what I am trying to find out is what is the weakness in the system that has made it—that has allowed, in these cases, for vulnerable populations to in fact be returned to Mexico? Chief PROVOST. We follow the standards of the MPP. No unaccompanied alien children are sent back. Citizens and nationals of Mexico, aliens processed for expedited removal—— Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. But Chief, we have examples that it in fact is happening. So what I am trying to get at is to ask you: Can you look into what is happening and where are those weaknesses that are actually resulting in these vulnerable populations being returned? Chief PROVOST. So if they have circumstances where they have medical or mental health issues, like current medical issues, if they have been cleared, then they can go back. But it is something that I am more than happy to talk to you about further and to work with you on, on what your actual concerns are in it. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. I think—because I want my other colleagues to have a chance to ask questions—but I would like to follow up with you on this. Chief PROVOST. I will definitely follow up. I would like to understand a little bit better your specific concerns when it comes to cases of individuals that we are sending back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. We will follow up. Chief PROVOST. Okay. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to thank my friends on both sides of the dais for a very productive hearing. And Chief Provost, thank you. Thank you for your thor- ough answers, and again, the tremendous job that you and the men and women in CBP are doing. Something that resounds, I think, on both sides is that our leaders, the House and the Senate and the administration, we need to

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00314 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 315 come up with policies. I think the sheriff said it best. Law enforcement is put in a very difficult position. You have got to follow the law, and you do. And if the laws are not put in place so that you can do your jobs, then we have some work to do. And I sincerely hope that our colleagues do that in the very near future to deal with this crisis. Following up on my earlier line of questioning, how long does it take, on average, for a border station staff to process a ‘‘large group’’? Chief PROVOST. Well, a large group, just to be clear, has varied. We count a large group as anybody over a hundred, a group of a hundred. But just this year we broke records that I certainly do not want us to be breaking, with one large group of over a thousand in one group. So obviously it is going to depend upon the size of the group. But when I have days where I have got over 5,000 illegal aliens coming across the border, it is extremely time-consuming to get those individuals just transported logistically, especially if they are coming across in remote locations, medically screened, processed through the system. It can take, with an extremely large group, days to get them handled. It just depends. It depends upon the size of the station where they cross. It depends upon the staffing that we have on. And it depends upon the size of the group. We have had over 200, 203 large groups, that have crossed our border this year. That is over a hundred people in each group. Last year we had 13 total. The year before, I think it was just a handful. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, ma’am. Does processing already include a medical screening and medical treatment, if warranted? Chief PROVOST. Definitely if warranted, and all children are screened now medically. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you. Perhaps the metrics should be ad- justed so we are counting how many hours to be processed and medically screened, and then to start a new clock on how long it takes for ICE and HHS to respond to notification for pickup. Is that possible? What story do you think would be told if we start looking at these various steps at the border as separate activities versus just ‘‘in custody’’? Chief PROVOST. Well, I can certainly tell you, Congressman, that as I have stated numerous times, Border Patrol is the only ones that cannot say no. If migrants come across the border illegally and then present themselves to my men and women, we have a responsibility, a legal responsibility, to take them into custody. And then they are in our care and custody. And we do not have the ability to say, ‘‘I am sorry, I do not have any more space,’’ whereas, I think, that as I mentioned earlier, it is critical that my partners at HHS and ICE have the funding that they need to be able to take these folks out of our care and custody. And once again I will recognize, certainly, the efforts of this committee when it comes to the funding that was provided to HHS. That has been a tremendous help. I certainly do not want 2700 unaccompanied children in my custody. I never want to see that again. And it has made a big difference. But because of ICE not having the beds, that does have an impact.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00315 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 316 There are obviously numerous factors that impact the processing and getting individuals done. As soon as we have them processed, though, I can tell you, we notify either HHS or ICE that they are ready for them to go. And we do work hand in hand with them on moving those that have been in our custody the longest. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, ma’am. Again, Chief Provost, thank you for your testimony. Madam Chair, I believe they have called votes, so I am going to yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Yes. In fact, they have called votes. We have the option. We can do one real quick round, or we can come back. So I do not know what the committee would prefer. Mr. CUELLAR. One quick one. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. One quick round? Mr. CUELLAR. Yes. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. Then the next, Cuellar. Mr. CUELLAR. Yes. Thank you. One quick question. Again, I appreciate what your men and women do, but there are some issues. I think you were down in Laredo when we had this Border Patrol agent that murdered multiple individuals. I think it was a veteran. I think we had another Border Patrol agent within the same time that killed his girlfriend and baby. My question is, even though you do a polygraph exam, do you do any sort of—I do not know what your position is on psychological testing for those folks, number one? And then number two is, in talking to the men and women at the border, they are afraid sometimes to talk when they have an issue because if they go in to their supervisor and say, ‘‘I got a problem,’’ what is the first thing they do? They take the gun away. So they basically are told, union members told, ‘‘Go talk to a priest.’’ And there has to be some sort of support services because you can understand law enforcement. If you tell them you got an issue they are going to take your gun away. So my question is on polygraph—I mean, on psychological and any sort of support. Thank you very much. Chief PROVOST. Thank you, Congressman. We currently do not have a psychological evaluation. We do a very extensive background check. We do polygraph. And we also do reinvestigations every 5 years. That is something, I would say, that we should speak with the Office of Professional Responsibility in relation to, on psychological exams. I can tell you that I did take one for my police department when I hired on. When it comes to things for the agents, concerns that they have, we have created a peer support program and our own chaplain program to help support our men and women when they do need to talk about issues as well. But I would certainly want my men and women to be willing to go talk to their supervisors when they have an issue. And of course, if they have an allegation, they can go directly to the Office of Inspector General or to the Office of Special Counsel or to the Office of Professional Responsibility without any of their chain of command knowing, particularly if they have a concern with their chain of command. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Rutherford.

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Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Madam Chair. Very quickly, I think it incredibly important that we not only help you with the symptoms of this issue that you have to deal with, but we also have to address the causes. And I think that is evidenced by the fact that when I see videotape of these large groups, 203, a hundred plus—I think I actually saw the video of the thousand group coming across—— Chief PROVOST. We did release that, sir. Mr. RUTHERFORD. But they do not run from your officers. They run to your officers. And the reason for that is, they understand the draw that we have created, the pull, as you all call it, that continues to bring them here. This body, this Congress, has got to address that and this issue in that way. One quick question also. Can you tell me, you move 731 officers. You also had some military assistance down there. How did that go? Was it worthwhile or—— Chief PROVOST. The DOD assistance has certainly helped up, particularly when it comes to, for instance, running our mobile surveillance cameras for us. That has allowed me to free up agents. They are helping us with our situational awareness so that the agent can respond. They have provided air support. They are now providing some support when it comes to meal preparation for the individuals in our custody and care, and other things. So they have been a huge support as well. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Very good. Thank you, and I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Thank you, Madam Chair. Chief Provost, immigration lawyers who work with detained migrants have told my office that they have heard reports of CBP pressuring teenage girls into signing documents stating that they are adults, and of accusing girls of lying when they have asserted that they are minors. By signing such a waiver, a child would lose legal protections and become subject to expedited removal, criminal charges, and transfer to ICE custody. Chief Provost, yes or no: Is this a legal practice? Chief PROVOST. No. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. And will you commit to investigating these accusations and, if substantiated, hold CBP officers committing these actions accountable? Chief PROVOST. Definitely. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. Thank you very much, and I have one additional question. Abusive behavior, as I indicated in my prior questioning, seems to be tolerated at CBP, although I know you are disagreeing with that or certainly following up on individual cases of abuse. But this is widespread abuse, and it apparently frequently goes unpunished. Out of a total of 7,239 agency disciplinary academies in fiscal year 2017, only 70 were removal actions. That represents less than 1 percent. What kind of misconduct would prompt a removal of an employee in your agency? And why is this number so low when reports of CBP abuse and misconduct are so commonplace? Chief PROVOST. Lack of candor would be an issue. Conduct unbe- coming can lead to a removal as well. But there are various levels along the disciplinary——

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Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Lack of candor meaning lying? Chief PROVOST. Yes. Yes. There are numerous things that could bring to light discipline. I would state, though, also during 2017 that we did have hundreds of individuals that received suspen- sions. We did have demotions. We did have everything from the lower level of a counseling or a written reprimand up to removal. This is something that, as I stated, we take very seriously. There were several allegations that were unsubstantiated, though, as well in that number that you provided. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. And I am sure that there were some. But it is 7,239 agency disciplinary academies, and less than 1 percent resulted in removal. I would think that things like kicking a child awake while they are trying to sleep on the floor, covered by tinfoil, is something that would indicate a culture of abuse and abusive practice by an individual who certainly does not belong employed as a Customs and Border Patrol officer, and would not be exemplary of the 4,000 rescues that you have you have conducted. Chief PROVOST. It would definitely not be, ma’am. But once again, those are allegations that have to be investigated. And whether or not those allegations are true, once it becomes—— Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. So why is the number so low when the reports of CBP abuse and misconduct are so commonplace? Chief PROVOST. Well, once again, reports are allegations. It does have to do with—of that, I believe 3800 of that number that you give were unsubstantiated allegations. And once again, those are not investigated by me. Those are investigated either by the Office of Inspector General or the Office of Professional Responsibility. That is their job to deal with. So when you are saying the number of 7,239, 3,806 were unsubstantiated claims—— Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Still leaves over 4,000 that were not. Chief PROVOST [continuing]. And there were various forms— there were various forms of discipline that were handed out. And it will depend on every type of situation. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. I would like a comprehensive overview of what the forms of discipline were, by number, of those remaining 4,000 cases that were—— Chief PROVOST. I will get with our labor/employee relationships group on that. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Aguilar. Mr. AGUILAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Chief, the family separation policy was in effect from at least April to June of 2018, and reports indicate that children were separated before then. We know that families were separated before the President implemented this policy, also known as Zero Tolerance. You were appointed acting chief in April of 2017. Did you play any role in advising agents in how to carry out family separation policy? Chief PROVOST. Well, first, as I have stated, we never had a specific family separation policy in my 25 years. Mr. AGUILAR. Zero Tolerance policy? Chief PROVOST. In my 25 years, I have had to separate families. This is not something that is new to the Border Patrol. One, we

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Chief PROVOST. Certainly. And this is of course of serious concern to me, to my men and women as well. There are numerous individuals coming into our custody that are sick when they arrive. We are expanding, and thank you for the funding that has helped us to expand our medical contracts, where we have over 200 medical professionals now working in our facilities. We are also able to buy more medical bags, cardiac monitors, and other medical supplies to assist in this issue. As I have stated, we are doing—right now, on average, Border Patrol agents are taking 80 people to the hospital a day across the Southwest border. Obviously, when the medical professionals ad- vise that anyone in our custody needs further medical attention outside of what they can provide there, we will take them to a hospital and we will stay with them throughout that time until they can be medically cleared. This is of great concern, specifically with the demographic that we have coming across. We have nearly 300,000 children who have come across our border illegally between the ports of entry this year. And as we all know, I think, that is a very vulnerable population when it comes to the health risks. So it is of great concern to us. Thank you for the funding. We will continue to expand. And I am more than happy to come back at any time and speak with you on how those funds are being utilized. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Meng. Ms. MENG. Thank you. I just wanted to go back to the MPP conversation before. What are Border Patrol’s procedures when processing some of these individuals, specifically unaccompanied minors? And has Border Patrol returned asylum-seeking minors to Mexico? Chief PROVOST. One of the exclusions is unaccompanied minor children cannot be a part of the MPP program. So we are not returning unaccompanied children. Ms. MENG. When you are returning other asylum seekers to Mexico, do Border Patrol agents ask if they face danger or persecution in their home country? Chief PROVOST. So when it comes to them waiting in Mexico for their asylum case, if they show a fear of Mexico, then they go back to USCIS to express that fear. Otherwise they are waiting, then, in Mexico for their hearing here in the U.S. and then are brought back across for that hearing. Ms. MENG. So if anyone expresses that they fear danger or fear of persecution in their home country, they are brought to USCIS facilities? Chief PROVOST. Are you asking specific to the MPP program? Ms. MENG. Yes. Chief PROVOST. Specific to that, they would need to show a fear of Mexico. And if they show a fear of Mexico, then they are referred to—because they are being returned and waiting in Mexico for their hearing up here. So if they show a fear of Mexico, then they are referred back to USCIS on whether or not they have a credible fear of persecution or torture. But when it comes to whether or not they have a fear of their home country, then they are going to get their day in court to express that in front of a judge.

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Ms. MENG. So where do they go if they do not specifically mention Mexico? Chief PROVOST. If they are part of the MPP program, the 22,000, I think, that we have done so far, then they are going to wait in Mexico for their court date. Ms. MENG. Okay. And if they specifically say Mexico, then they are put in USCIS custody? Chief PROVOST. Then they will go to USCIS to see whether—for a determination of fear of going to Mexico. Ms. MENG. Okay. Thank you. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Unfortunately, we have run out of time. We will submit other questions for the record. And I just want to say thank you for your time, for being here, and I look forward to a lot of follow-up on many of the issues that were raised today. Chief PROVOST. Certainly. And thank you for inviting me today. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. We are off the record. [CLERK’S NOTE.—The Border Patrol did not answer questions submitted for the record in time for the printing of this hearing.]

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00321 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00322 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS THURSDAY, JULY 25, 2019. OVERSIGHT HEARING—U.S IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT WITNESS

MATTHEW T. ALBENCE, ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT

Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Acting Director Albence, thank you for your patience and your willingness to stay until 4 o’clock given the votes that we had. We appreciate it. Today we welcome Matthew Albence, the Acting Director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Thank you for being here this afternoon. As we continue to monitor the challenging situation on the southern border, we look forward to hearing your perspective on ICE’s operational and funding priorities and requirements. As chair of this subcommittee, I am committed to ensuring the integrity of our borders and strengthening our immigration system. But I am equally committed to making sure we do so according to all our laws and in a way that exemplifies our American values. In particular, we must ensure that, in accordance with our laws and values, those fleeing violence and persecution have meaningful opportunities to seek asylum. We must get this balance right, and I believe that we can if we work together. It is a false choice to believe that more migrants need to be un- necessarily detained and that cruel and exclusionary immigration laws need to be enacted in order to increase security in our country. Our own Constitution, Federal law, and several international agreements serve as the foundation for the rights and protections I believe need to be embodied in our efforts to address the humanitarian crisis we are currently experiencing. Unfortunately, the rhetoric and the policies of this administration have made achieving that balance more difficult and, by all in- dications, have exacerbated our challenges at the border. We must also be mindful of the resource limitations that we face. There is likely no area of our bill where we have sufficient resources to fully address known requirements. For instance, we have barely cracked the surface of what the Coast Guard truly needs to address the flow of illegal drugs in the transit zone or to protect our sovereign interests in the Arctic. Detention is a very expensive option that should be reserved for cases where public safety or flight risk is a valid concern. When public safety is not a concern, ICE should use alternatives to detention. (323)

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00323 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 324 When used as intended, with appropriate case management, alternatives to detention have proven to be effective in mitigating flight risk and improving compliance with immigration court requirements. For those whose detention is appropriate, I remain seriously concerned about substandard conditions at ICE detention facilities. In addition to what I have personally witnessed, we continue to get alerts from the media, the Office of the Inspector General, the Gov- ernment Accountability Office, and advocacy organizations about detention facilities that do not meet ICE’s minimum standards but are nevertheless allowed to continue operating. Preventing these inhumane conditions can only be achieved if ICE leadership makes clear that anything less is unacceptable and will have consequences. I will continue to work with ICE to ensure that this happens. On a more positive note, I want to highlight the good work ICE does in areas such as combating human trafficking, human smuggling, child exploitation, and the smuggling of fentanyl and other opioids. In the fiscal year 2019 appropriation, the subcommittee provided additional resources to Homeland Security Investigation for these efforts. This is a great example of a mission where we have worked together to accomplish shared goals, and we have sustained these efforts in our fiscal year 2020 bill. Lastly, I want to follow up on the letter I sent you on July 12 about increased interior enforcement operations. I requested that you submit for the record today some of ICE’s written policies and procedures which I described in that letter. This kind of transparency is very important for us to better understand how ICE’s leadership expects its frontline officers and agents to operate. I understand that you have submitted documents in response, so I thank you for that, and I look forward to reviewing them and will follow up accordingly. Before I turn to the Director for a summary of his written statement, the text of which will be included in the hearing record, let me first recognize our distinguished ranking member, Mr. Fleischmann, for any remarks he wishes to make. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to keep my remarks very brief, as I know we have been delayed by votes. Welcome, Director Albence. Thank you for your time and your testimony before the subcommittee today. There has been a lot of change in leadership positions at the De- partment in recent months, and it is reassuring to me to have an Acting Director with your years, really decades of experience at the helm. Thank you for assuming the awesome responsibility of leading this law enforcement and homeland security agency. I very much appreciated the other day with you and your most able staff the visit and the update. It helped me to understand exactly where we are and where we are going. Again, I thank you for your hard work. I look forward to working with you, and I look forward to your testimony today, sir. Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. The order in which members will be called for questioning will be based on the seniority of those present when

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00324 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 325 the hearing was called to order, alternating between majority and minority members. Also, to ensure everyone has ample opportunity to ask questions, I ask that each member stay within the allotted 5 minutes per round. Director, please begin your statement. Mr. ALBENCE. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Roybal-Allard, Rank- ing Member Fleischmann, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. As you are aware, the United States is currently facing an unprecedented national security and humanitarian crisis at our southwest border. Over the past year, the number of aliens apprehended at or near the southwest border has increased significantly. Today, however, I am here to address other parts of the immigration system that remain in desperate need of resources and funding as well as to highlight the need for legislation that would help put an end to the current border crisis once and for all.

ICE: INTERIOR ENFORCEMENT The fact is, the majority of the aliens encountered at or near the border are released into the interior of the United States for removal proceedings, and the immigration courts currently have a backlog of more than 900,000 cases and growing. The dedicated officers and agents of ICE are responsible for managing these cases as well as those of the more than 3 million aliens currently on ICE’s docket. Many aliens do not appear for removal proceedings, violating the terms of their release, including the terms of the Alternatives to Detention program, and fail to appear for their hearings or comply with removal orders. The result is that the border crisis has become a national crisis, which requires a strong interior enforcement component that lends certainty to lawfully issued orders by immigration judges. The reality is if our immigration laws are only enforced at the border and you fail to provide adequate resources to ensure that those who have entered illegally proceed through the immigration process and, if ordered removed, are actually removed, the entire system will break down. This failure will continue to serve as a magnet for additional aliens to illegally enter the country, and you will never have a secure border. With this in mind, I come to ask for your assistance in providing ICE the funding it desperately needs to address not only the ongoing humanitarian crisis, but also the concurrent national security and public safety crises. While ICE’s immigration enforcement is focused on the interior, the current situation at our border directly impacts this agency and its resource requirements.

BORDER SECURITY: CBP CBP’s 780,633 encounters include more than 390,000 members of family units and 63,000 unaccompanied alien children. This represents 63 percent of all southwest border encounters in fiscal year 2019 year to date.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00325 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 326 Notably, in the last few months ICE alone has been forced to release more than 215,000 members of family units into the interior of the United States due to the Flores settlement agreement. ICE’s resources have been overburdened by the record numbers of CBP apprehensions at the southwest border and Congress’ re- peated failure to fund ICE detention and transportation requirements at ICE-requested levels. ICE is currently detaining over 53,000 single adults, and there are approximately 8,000 single adults in CBP custody awaiting processing or transfer to ICE. Due to its very limited detention capacity, ICE must generally reserve its detention space for those who require congressionally mandated detention, along with those who pose a national security, public safety, or flight risk. However, based on increased enforcement activity on the border, additional ICE detention capacity and transportation funding is urgently needed. ICE: ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS To ensure the national security and public safety of the United States and the faithful execution of the immigration laws passed by Congress, ICE officers may conduct targeted enforcement actions against any removable alien who is present in violation of immigration law. Despite what is often sensationally misreported, these are not in- discriminate raids or sweeps. Instead, ICE’s operations are carefully planned based on person-specific, intelligence-driven leads, focusing on those who represent a public safety threat as well as those who have received a lawfully issued order of removal from an immigration judge. Approximately 90 percent of ERO’s administrative arrests in the interior of this country are of aliens that have prior criminal convictions, face pending criminal charges, are immigration fugitives, or who have been previously been removed from the country and have illegally reentered, the latter of which is a Federal felony that ICE prosecutes extensively. However, the crisis on the border has negatively impacted ICE’s interior enforcement mission and thus the public safety of our communities. Resources dedicated to removing dangerous criminals from the streets have been redeployed to manage the increased workload stemming from the border surge, resulting in an over 14 percent decrease in criminal alien arrests this fiscal year. ICE: FUGITIVE OPERATIONS Additionally, ICE has reassigned members of Fugitive Oper- ations teams to manage detained dockets or help respond to the border crisis. The failure of Congress to increase funding for Fugitive Oper- ations over the course of the last decade has created a tremendous strain on ICE’s ability to effectuate arrests of specific aliens who have failed to comply with removal orders or with release conditions, including those who have absconded while on ATD. While Congress has sought to increase funding for ATD, it has failed to fund the necessary resources that make the program effective.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00326 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 327 Without sufficient numbers of Fugitive Operations officers to search for and arrest aliens who fail to comply with ATD, as well as sufficient detention space for those aliens to be detained once they are located and arrested, ATD will continue to offer very little benefit for its cost. ICE: IMMIGRATION LAWYERS Additional resources are also requested in fiscal year 2020 to ensure that ICE’s Office of the Principal Legal Advisor is able to carry out statutory responsibility to prosecute administrative immigration cases before the immigration courts. While Congress has increased the number of funded DOJ immigration judges and support positions during recent budget cycles, OPLA funding has not kept pace, thereby exacerbating the backlog. More critically, and most critically, I would like to highlight legislative changes that are urgently needed. To be clear, the fiscal year 2020 budget request only provides the necessary funding and resources for ICE to address the symptoms of the crisis. It does not, nor can any amount of resources solve the problem. ICE: LEGISLATIVE CHANGES Legislative changes are the only viable option to swiftly put an end to the current crisis, reducing the victimization of migrants looking for a better life, and starving the cartels and transnational criminal organizations of a major segment of their illicit enter- prises. Absent these changes, current laws will continue to be exploited and the pull factors they create will only result in more illegal immigration and worsen the humanitarian crisis. We ask you to terminate the Flores settlement agreement and clarify the government’s detention authority with respect to alien minors; amend the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act to provide for the prompt repatriation of all UAC who are not victims of human trafficking and do not express fear of return to their home country; and address the credible fear standard. The current standard has proved to be ineffective in screening out those with fraudulent, frivolous, or legally insufficient claims and has further strained our overwhelmed immigration system. HUMAN SMUGGLING By requiring the release of family units before the conclusion of immigration proceedings, seemingly well-intentioned court rulings and legislation are being exploited by transnational criminal organizations and human smugglers. These despicable smugglers have created an entire illicit industry with untold millions of dollars being made through the sale, rental, and recycling of children utilized by unscrupulous adults to pose as family units. To fight this activity, Homeland Security Investigations has reassigned hundreds of special agents and intel analysts to Border Pa- trol facilities to ferret out fraudulent family units and UAC. These same loopholes also encourage further illegal immigration as the record numbers indicate.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00327 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6601 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 328 These are not talking points. These are facts based on my over 25 years of law enforcement experience, and they represent the major challenges currently faced by ICE. Every day the dedicated, courageous, professional men and women of ICE work to promote homeland security and public safety by faithfully executing the laws established by Congress to protect the integrity and credibility of our country’s borders, as well as our national security and the safety of our communities nationwide. The increase in the flow of illegal migrants and the change in those arriving at our border are putting the migrants, particularly young children, at risk of harm from smugglers, traffickers, criminals, and the dangers of the difficult journey, and are placing unsustainable pressure on our entire immigration system. Ultimately, to solve the border crisis we must work collectively to ensure the integrity of our immigration system as a whole. ICE: RESOURCE RESTRAINTS Failing to adequately resource interior enforcement efforts, such as Fugitive Operations, detention beds, and ICE attorneys, creates nothing more than the appearance of border enforcement, creating a pull factor that ultimately drives more people to make the dangerous journey to the United States, incentivizes more illegal activity, and delays justice for those with meritorious claims for asylum. As a nation of laws, we owe it to the citizens of our country to maintain the integrity of our immigration system, especially when faced with a serious and ongoing national crisis. Day in and day out the women and men of ICE have worked tirelessly, with limited resources and an outdated legal framework, to ensure the safety and security of our country. They have done this despite villainization, personal attacks, and the toll it takes on their families and personal lives. They pay this price every day for simply doing their jobs under the laws passed by Congress. A crisis is at hand, a change is needed, and it is your responsibility as Members of Congress to act. Thank you again for inviting me to testify today. I am honored and humbled to represent the more than 20,000 American patriots with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. I ask that you provide the funding sought in the President’s fiscal year 2020 budget, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you. [The information follows:]

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CONTINUING RESOLUTION: SUSTAINING OPERATIONS Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Director Albence, as you know, we have serious concerns about ICE’s ability to manage its budget within the means provided by Congress. The lack of transparency into how ICE executes its budget also exacerbates our concerns. Under a continuing resolution operations should continue at the level funded in the prior year appropriation. For the current year that means ICE should have maintained an average daily population of 40,520 during the CR period. And yet, for the first quarter ICE’s use of detention beds surged from 44,000 to over 46,000, and this was before the significant migrant surge at the border. During the period of the CR, did ICE make any attempt to operate within the funding levels identified by Congress for custody operations, and if so, what specific actions did it take? Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. We continually look to utilize our detention resources in the most efficient manner as possible. Our standing instructions to our field offices, our 24 ERO field offices, continually look at their populations to ensure that those individuals that are detained are the most appropriate for detention. Again, many of those individuals that are currently detained are individuals that Congress has mandated must be detained by law. Seventy-four percent of the individuals that are currently in ICE custody are subject to mandatory detention under the Immigration and Nationality Act. The vast majority of those other individuals are individuals who are public safety threats, who are gang members, or individuals who may not reach the mandatory detention threshold but we have felt that they are appropriate for detention and not appropriate for any sort of release back to the community. With regard to your question, during the CR the numbers began an uptick in the middle part of last summer and continue to rise through the fall and not to the level that we have seen, unfortunately, during the calendar year fiscal year 2019. However, in order to prevent a wholesale catch-and-release system, which we knew would create further incentives for individuals to come to the country illegally, we made the conscious decision to try to detain as many people as we possibly could to help prevent a rush on the border. Unfortunately, the numbers continued to come as a result of the fact that many of those people we can’t detain because they are UAC or family units. ICE OPERATING PLANS Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. To better understand how ICE budgets for its operations, the report that accompanied the fiscal year 2019 appropriation directed ICE to brief the committee on a detailed plan for operating within its budget. This was due 60 days after the date of enactment and was to be provided monthly thereafter. The first briefing was due by April 16. To date, we have not received even one, and by now we should have received four. Why has ICE failed to comply with this briefing directive? Mr. ALBENCE. I will have to look into that specific directive. I do know that we are holding weekly migration calls with the four cor-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00339 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 340 ners staff, during which time both CBP and ICE provide detailed information with regard to their ongoing operations, to include detention and funding execution. We have posted a lot of our material on the website. I do have the list of requirements after our discussion earlier, and we will go through them and certainly have to get back to you with a detailed response on each one of those. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. Just as a follow-up, you know, the Department’s funding transfer authority exists to address unfore- seeable and unavoidable circumstances. But it seems clear to me that ICE routinely operates with full expectation that it will be bailed out by this transfer authority that it has or some other means. As the Acting ICE Director for the coming fiscal year, I hope that you can commit to operating within the funding level that is appropriated by Congress. Mr. ALBENCE. I certainly will do my best to do so. I can tell you that we have numerous budget meetings with very hard decisions made all the time with regard to what operations we are going to have to curtail or what funding we were going to—or, excuse me, initiatives we might not have to be able to do as result of the limited funding. Our detention modeling has been accurate for the past 3 or 4 years, the model that we utilize, and we asked for 52,000 beds in the fiscal year 2019 budget. Had we received that money as requested, we would not be in any circumstance where we need to do any sort of reprogramming or shortfall. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Just as a reminder as we move forward, appropriation bills are also law, and including continuing resolutions, with no less authority than the Immigration and the Nationality Act. In fact, the authority of appropriation bills is derived directly from Article I, section 9, clause 7 of the U.S. Constitution. And I quote: ‘‘No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Con- sequence of Appropriations made by Law.’’ So when Congress enacts appropriation bills it does so based on informed analysis provided by the Appropriations Committee on how best to target—to use—the use of limited resources. So I just want to emphasize that transfer authority is provided by Congress to allow executive branch agencies to respond to un- foreseen events and circumstances and not to routinely augment appropriations for a particular activity. And I will pause on my questioning and I will now turn to the chair of the full committee, Mrs. Lowey. The CHAIRWOMAN. Sorry I was delayed, but it looks like we are passing our final bill this session. But I am pleased to be here with my colleagues to welcome you. Director Albence, I am very concerned that this administration’s policies negatively impact the well-being out of our immigrant populations. I am especially concerned about the effects on vulnerable populations like unaccompanied children. UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN: SPONSORS In April 2018, your predecessor, Director Homan, signed an agreement with HHS that provides for information sharing be-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00340 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 341 tween your agencies regarding the vetting of potential sponsors for unaccompanied children. The mere existence of this agreement has had a chilling effect on the number of potential sponsors who would otherwise have been willing to come forward to take these children out of Federal Government custody and care for them. Not only does this make the mental and emotional stress these children already face even worse, it has led to significant additional Federal costs as children remain in HHS custody for far longer than necessary. It is clear to me that this agreement is misguided at best. So if I can ask you a few questions. First, how many arrests have been made of sponsors, potential sponsors, or their household members since this agreement was signed? Mr. ALBENCE. I don’t have the exact number, and we haven’t made any arrests since the appropriations bill that was passed pre- vented us from utilizing that information. So section 224 of the fiscal year 2019 appropriations bill prevents us from using that HHS information to make arrests. So prior to that date, I can get you the exact number, but it is going to be around 330. The CHAIRWOMAN. However, you have the information from the households to which the youngster is going. Isn’t that correct? So if the youngster goes to an uncle and in that household there may be three undocumented, four undocumented family members, you have that information. Is that correct? Mr. ALBENCE. We wouldn’t necessarily have the information with regard to individuals that are in the household. HHS has limited some of the sharing of information in various iterations during the course of this MOA. But, again, we are prohibited from using that information to take enforcement action against that sponsor. The CHAIRWOMAN. Given that children may already be present in a sponsor’s household, how does ICE ensure the safety and well- being of children during enforcement actions, and what arrangements are made for these children? Mr. ALBENCE. So, certainly we take the safety of children at the utmost important as we plan any operation. In fact, the entire MOA exists as a result of some tragic circumstances in which UAC were placed with traffickers. This was an attempt to try to prevent traffickers and other individuals who may do harm to these children from being sponsors and getting children into their custody. Our research, showed as we were going through these cases when we were able to use that information, nearly 40 percent of the people that were sponsors actually had criminal records. So there are certainly calls for concern with regard to the individuals that were sponsoring the children. With regard to your exact question, we have extensive training that we provide to all of our field offices. We have field office juvenile coordinators. We have a juvenile residential management unit up in headquarters and a national headquarters program manager that oversees how our field office juvenile coordinators conduct their operations. We do extensive training with that. Our officers are trained professional law enforcement officers.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00341 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 342 We are no different than any other law enforcement agency. Once you go into a residence, as much planning as you could do beforehand, you don’t quite know what is inside that door. And there are a lot—every law enforcement agency is faced with challenges when they go into these houses and they find that there are children there that were either unanticipated or that need a care- giver to take care of them. So we work very closely with the—generally, we are able to find, if the parent has another parent in the country that they can have the child stay with, a family member or other relative that the parent consents to letting that child stay with, we will let the child stay with them. And most times that is generally what happens. The CHAIRWOMAN. Well, as you know, the fiscal year 2019 DHS bill included a provision that constrained ICE’s ability to use information resulting from this agreement with HHS to deport a sponsor, potential sponsor, or a member of their household with some limited exceptions like a felony conviction for child abuse or an aggravated felony. Nevertheless, the agreement still stands, and potential sponsors are still concerned about what would happen to them if they were to offer to become a sponsor. Given that these protections are in place, why has ICE not rescinded the agreement or at least amended it to reflect the protections provided in law? And with these restrictions in place, I would be interested to know, as I conclude, because my time is—well, I will just ask the first question. Why haven’t you rescinded this agreement or at least amended it to reflect the protections provided in law? Mr. ALBENCE. There have been some discussions with regard to how we could tailor the MOA in a manner that would be more effective and in compliance with the law. Those have not reached to fruition. But, again, I will reiterate, based on the fact that the appropriations language forbids us from utilizing that information, large por- tions of that MOA have been rendered largely moot. The CHAIRWOMAN. Well, let me conclude. And I thank you, Madam Chair, for giving me the opportunity as I was on the floor introducing the bill. But I do want to say, in my discussions with many people in our community, and we were at Homestead, there is a real concern about providing enough sponsors, because they are afraid that they will be picked up or Grandma will be picked up and someone in the household. So I look forward to continuing this discussion. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Fleischmann. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, Madam Chair. DETENTION FUNDING Director Albence, yesterday we heard from Chief Provost in our Border Patrol oversight hearing. As you can imagine, we spent a lot of time pursuing questions about the overcrowding and detention facilities at the southwest border.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00342 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 343 As you would surmise, because HHS received more funds in the supplemental to care for unaccompanied minors, Border Patrol was able to quickly move minors out of CBP sites and into ORR facilities. Conversely, because ICE did not receive funds in the supplemental and didn’t receive an increase in the regular fiscal year 2019 bill, CBP is still sitting on a lot of single adults at the border with no relief in sight. Because of this backup, and because the numbers of apprehensions at the border are still astronomically high, CBP facilities, both OFO and Border Patrol, are beyond capacity every single day. The inspector general has published reports in just the last weeks on the dangers to both the migrants and your colleagues at CBP. What are you doing to ensure that the southwest border apprehensions are a priority for beds and transport within the ICE system, sir? Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you. Let me be first to commend Chief Pro- vost and her CBP team for doing a tremendous job under the most incredibly difficult circumstances that there are out there. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you. Mr. ALBENCE. We are in the process of ramping up our detention. Unfortunately, we made a conscious decision during the continuing resolution period to not acquire additional detention space because we didn’t know where the appropriations bill would end up and we did not want to end up further in the hole than we were. So as a result of not getting the appropriations until February and then starting the process to identify additional beds, it takes a longer time to turn them on. When HHS gets additional money, they have Homestead or they have a facility such as that where they can turn on beds quickly. When we want to turn on a facility we have to go to—generally have to go to a contractor, and they need to recruit, train, hire, vet their personnel, plus get the facility up to speed to meet our standards prior to placing individuals into that. So we have turned on about 6,000 or 7,000 beds during the course of the year thus far. We have got about another 4,000 or 5,000 that will be turned on by the end of August. And that is the culmination of the process that began once we received the budgets and started moving forward. So our modeling indicated to us that we were going to need to have those beds, but we just simply didn’t have the funds to turn them on in a timely fashion. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. And I am clearly empathetic and sympathetic with your plight. In that that regard, in moving towards solutions, is money the only challenge? And does this problem extend beyond just dollars, sir? Mr. ALBENCE. Well, it certainly does. Again, money helps us better deal with the symptoms of the crisis, and that includes being able to relieve the—getting additional detention funding to relieve the overcrowding in the Border Patrol stations. They are sitting on, I believe, probably about 8,000 single adult males that are waiting to either be processed or placed in ICE custody.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00343 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 344 We can’t place them into custody unless we have a bed to put them in, and we can’t have the beds to put them in unless we have the money to buy those beds. We have done many things internally to improve our efficiency, and, in fact, our average length of stay in detention has gone down even while our detention beds have gone up. So we are better utilizing the resources that we have been given. But, again, a crisis means a crisis, and there is more bodies that are there than we have the capability to do so. But, again, we are just dealing with the symptoms at that point. Unless the law changes that allows us to detain families during the course of a truncated immigration proceeding where they are entitled to due process but keep them in custody, in a safe, secure environment, just like we did in 2015 when we built family detention under the prior administration and we saw the numbers drop precipitously, that will be a certainly—and as I mentioned in my opening statement, fixing the Flores settlement agreement will be a huge help to that. The credible fear threshold, again, is part of the problem. A lot of the reason these individuals are holding—these single adults are holding down these beds is because they are getting credible fear because the threshold for that credible fear is so low. But when they actually go through court and get in front of a judge, only less than 10 percent of the Northern Triangle individuals are actually getting asylum. So there is this different standard which creates a situation where we are holding these individuals in custody for 60, 70 days as they go through that process, and at the end of that process they are going to be removed anyway. So it certainly makes sense to have the initial screening be more on line with what the ultimate decision factors would be by—from an immigration judge. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. DETAINEE STATISTICS One quick two-part question. How quickly are single adults being repatriated back to their home countries? And do you know the average lengths of stay in an ICE facility after being turned over from one of the CBP facilities? And I am beyond my time, so I will ask for a quick response, sir. Mr. ALBENCE. So it depends on the circumstances. A lot of it depends on where the individual is from. Some countries, especially Northern Triangle countries where we have great relations, we have scheduled charters, you know, almost every day if we need them. We can return those individuals, if we get the removal order, if they take the expedited removal and don’t claim asylum, or once the judge orders them removed, we can turn them quickly. I would say—and I can get you the exact number—I think average length of stay right now for a single adult is going to be in the 40- to 41-day range. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you, sir. Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Newhouse. Mr. NEWHOUSE. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00344 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 345 Acting Director Albence, thank you for being here with us today. And I also want to express my thanks for your service as well as all the men and women that work with you in helping to keep our Nation safe. So thank you very much. Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you. DETENTION FACILITY ATTACK Mr. NEWHOUSE. I wanted to talk today a little bit about a couple things, but first of all, some thoughts surrounding a disturbing, violent attack by an avowed Antifa assailant that was conducted just over 2 weeks ago at one of your facilities in my home State of Washington. In fact, it is a facility that I had the pleasure of visiting a short time ago. And by the way, Madam Chair, the conditions I observed, I believe that all of the needs of the detainees there were being met very well. And so I just wanted to make sure that you understood that, that things that I observed were, in fact, above standards, I would think. But this man armed with a rifle and an incendiary device, if you recall, attacked the detention center in Takoma on July 13. He tried to ignite a propane tank. He tossed lit objects at vehicles as well as buildings. He lit a car on fire. Authorities found, as I mentioned, a rifle, incendiary devices on him, as well as a knife, and also collapsible batons. I am very concerned by this. I have got to tell you that I think everybody would agree with me that this is pretty frightening to have happen. I am certainly thankful that no officers, no detainees were injured or killed in this attack. But what is even just as concerning, but maybe more so, is to hear and read about the things that members of the radical Antifa groups are saying about this man. They are calling him a martyr and calling for more direct action just like this. Unfortunately, this wasn’t the first time that this man had attacked one of your facilities. I believe last year the same individual had wrapped his arms around a police officer’s throat during a protest. You know, I have been thinking about this. I think a lot of us have probably been reflecting about what is going on in our country, our national discourse, both here in Washington, D.C., and around the country, and how perhaps this vehemence against our law enforcement and against men and women who are, as you said, doing the jobs we asked you to do to protect our Nation and uphold our laws, how is that affecting these people’s ability to do their jobs. And I just wondered if you had any thoughts about that, Mr. Director. Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you, Congressman. Yeah, I wish that was an isolated incident. As you mentioned, there are significantly increasing numbers of violent protests against our officers who are doing an incredibly professional, difficult job under the most complex and difficult of circumstances incredibly well. You know, assaults, unfortunately, against our officers are up significantly. They have been on the rise continually over the past couple years, both on our officers that are out there in the field

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00345 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 346 conducting law enforcement efforts as well as officers—and even our contractors—in our detention facilities where they are being attacked and assaulted. We had a nurse that was punched in the face last year, and the trauma that she suffered as a result of that is unmentionable. And I have said it publicly and I have done some media appear- ances, and I mean no disrespect, but they are picketing the wrong people. Congress is responsible for the laws that we are enforcing. If there is a desire to change the laws and these people wanted to have the laws changed, they know where Capitol Hill is. They can come over here and picket and do it. But to come after the men and women who are American patriots doing the job, again, they put their life on the line every day when they go out there. And it is not just the law enforcement officers. You know, when we had people trying to storm our office in Portland, right, we had non-law enforcement officers being threatened, having their cars vandalized, didn’t think they were going to be able to get out of the parking lot, by protesters. That is not right and it shouldn’t be that way. So I would hope that everybody involved in this process and this issue would take a step back and a deep breath and realize that the law enforcement officers are the ones that are comporting themselves in the proper manner in this entire process. And it is those that are wishing that they didn’t exist that are the ones that are behaving in an unprofessional and unsafe manner. Mr. NEWHOUSE. I appreciate that, Mr. Albence. And, again, thank you for your service and for being here with us today. Thank you, Madam Chair, for calling on me. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Ruppersberger. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Thank you. First thing, I would like to respond to this, what you said. Our country is a democracy. I think we have the best country in the world. Those of us who have traveled to other parts of the world appreciate it. I think a lot of it is the check and balances. I have worked in law enforcement in the past for over 10 years. And I agree that you have dedicated men and women who work in law enforcement and they are good people. There are also some bad people in law enforcement, and that few amount of small people give a bad reputation. I think right now this country is split. I think a lot of it has to do with national media on both sides of the aisle where people get their information. I think our President—and I don’t want you to respond, he is your boss—has infuriated this issue of immigration, that all people coming in this country are bad and wrong and mur- derers and rapists and whatever. But your job is to enforce the law, and I agree, and we want to change the law, we need to do that. But when the average person in this country sees abuses of children and families, that is where a lot of this comes from, and we are concerned about it. We are saying, this is not who we are. And then there are certain agencies that are being blamed, and you are probably one of the top.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00346 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 347 So how do we deal with this? I feel strongly that where you are and ICE is you need to make sure that you focus on the immigration laws. But there are also ways to do this. Now, we just passed a supplemental, and you are going to have money coming to you now to deal with issues. Now, because of the debate back and forth, you are not going to be allowed to use this money for enforcement. You are going to be allowed to use this money for issues such as detention facilities that are better, to be able to put people out that you can’t hold, to keep families together in a more humane area. CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT I would personally—and I am going to get to my question—I would personally like to see ICE focus—and you are known, just like the FBI is known for something, DEA is known for something, you are known for focusing on the felons. That is what you do best. That is what you can do. You need to focus on the felons. And when it looks like you are going after immigrant families with children, and when our President puts out we are going to go out there and arrest 25,000 people, or whatever he said that number was, that doesn’t help you, it doesn’t help our system of justice, and it scares the dickens out of these families who are here because they want a better life. And we know it might be legal, but we are not going to fix this issue until we deal with the issue of volume generally, until we deal with right now the Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador countries so that people won’t want to come here. And that is out of your mission really. Your mission is to, when people break the law, you need to enforce it. So first thing, what is your priority as far as the bad guys, so to speak, the felons? And why does it seem, the perception that you are out there going after people who have been here for years and pick them up and they have families and that type of thing? I think that is where the problem is with ICE and where you have your bad reputation for a lot of people in this country. Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you. And, unfortunately, I think there is a lot of misinformation out there, which doesn’t help. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. That is why I am asking you the question. Mr. ALBENCE. Yeah. Sure. So our priorities and our enforcement numbers are largely consistent over the past decade, if maybe 7, 8 years. Ninety percent of the people that we arrest are convicted criminals, which is the largest—and I am just solely talking about the civil enforcement stuff, not the great stuff that HSI is doing. But ninety percent of the individuals that we arrest are convicted criminals, charged with a criminal violation, are an immigration fugitive, meaning they have had their day in immigration court—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Well, let me stop you right here. Felony type or automobile, speeding tickets? What? Mr. ALBENCE. Well, again, speeding ticket, if it is not—the way we find out most of the individuals that are here in the country illegally is through the criminal justice system. So three out of every four people that we arrest—in fact, it is higher than that, but three out of four that we arrest come out of our Criminal Alien Program.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00347 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 348 Those are individuals that are sitting in the custody of another law enforcement agency after having been arrested by that law enforcement agency for some criminal violation. That is how we are aware of their presence, is once their fingerprints are run through the FBI database they bounce off ours. So, again, 90 percent criminals, pending criminal charges, immigration fugitives, and individuals that have illegally reentered the country after being deported, which, again, as I mentioned, is a felony. But to your larger point and with regard to restoring integrity of the immigration system, if we do nothing else besides working the criminal aliens, what we have in effect said that we are no longer going to—there is no longer going to be a consequence for anybody coming to this country illegally, even if you go through the entire immigration court process, which Congress spends hundreds of millions of dollars on every year between ICE and DOJ, that that order issued by an immigration judge is not worth the paper it is written on, why do we even have the process? No other law enforcement agency in this country is being asked to ignore a lawfully issued judge’s order. And when you say we can only go after felons or only go after criminals, that is what that in effect means. Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Well, I say that because that is the priority. There is 11 million people here. You can’t go after 11 million people. So you have got to pick your priorities. My time is up. I just want to ask one question. Why do you feel that you are being criticized, that there are so many people in this country that want to ban ICE? From your perspective, why do you think that is the case? And what do you think needs to be done to change that? Mr. ALBENCE. Again, I think it is largely a part of misconception and misunderstanding as to what we do. Look, if you want to talk about abolishing ICE then that means that—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. I am not saying that. Mr. ALBENCE. No. No. But I am saying, but those that say they want to abolish ICE, what that means is that they don’t want 140,000 criminals removed from the country every year. That means they don’t want HSI removing 10,000 gang members, arresting 10,000 gang members every year. That means they don’t want HSI removing 10,000 pounds of opioids from the street, including 3,000 pounds of fentanyl. That means we don’t want the second largest agency on the Joint Terrorism Task Force to exist, for which 54 percent of the cases are made out of HSI. That means we no longer want to have counter- proliferation investigations and we want sensitive military equipment to go overseas to our enemies. You know, that means—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. That is a good answer, and that is what you have to get out to the public. My time is up. I will get you in the next round. Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you, sir. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Rutherford. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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CRIMINAL ALIEN PROGRAM: 287(G) Director Albence, first, I want to say thank you for the job that you and your men and women are doing out there and really apologize for the Congress and the courts and the position that we have put you in. And I know it is a very, very difficult situation, because not only have we created bad law, but there is also this sentiment in the country that disrespects all authority. The folks that are talking about banning ICE, you know, there was another group that was marching down the streets of New York chanting, what do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now. We just saw on television the other night two New York City Po- lice Department officers having water dumped on them. You are absolutely right, people need to take a step back, take a breath, and start respecting law enforcement. I have got some bad news for you. The President asked for $9.3 billion so that you could do your job. We are only going to give you $8 billion, it looks like. So somewhere in there you are going to have to transfer probably another $1.3 billion around so that you can complete your mission. That is not on you, that is on us. And so let me ask you this. When we talk about your budget and ways that you can do your job more efficiently, you mentioned the Criminal Alien Program. I was a lifelong law enforcement officer, 12 years as a sheriff. I ran a 287(g) program in my jail. I know how efficient and safe that was for your officers, for my officers, and for every citizen in my city. And I have to tell you, my blood boils when I see these cities say that they are not going to work and coordinate with ICE. Because let me ask, do you think it is safer for you to go into a jail and arrest these criminal aliens—and these are the criminals that my good friend is talking about down there. These are the ones—90 percent of your arrests are out of these jails. So is that safer? Mr. ALBENCE. It is absolutely safer, safer for our officers, it is safer for the individual you are trying to arrest, and it is safer for the general public at large. Mr. RUTHERFORD. And can you comment, is it cheaper? Mr. ALBENCE. It is certainly cheaper, I mean. And to give you perspective, we used to get, before this issue came up with sanctuary cities and people not wanting to honor detainers, and talking to the field office director from Los Angeles at the time, he said they used to get 200 criminals a day out of L.A. County. That has dwindled down to a handful now based on State laws that are there. I mean, that is something that we have asked Congress for. And, look, everybody is safer. Every community is safer when law enforcement works together. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Absolutely. Mr. ALBENCE. We all take the same oath to uphold the Constitu- tion and to keep our communities safe. So we are all better when we work together. That said, there are many law enforcement agencies that would like to work with us but due to some court decisions or due to some executive orders or State laws or just the fear of litigation and li-

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Mr. ALBENCE. I am fairly familiar. I have been there and I know that my staff back briefed me after they briefed you a couple months ago, so—— Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. So after that meeting with them and we got the detailed answers to questions, there were a number of questions that they really didn’t give us an answer for. And these issues of poor infrastructure, people standing out in the blazing sun, security that is working with ERO Miami treating people—treating undocumented immigrants rudely, still prohibiting them from being able to have volunteers distribute food and water, those issues are all continuing, and we have gotten insufficient answers related to canopies, bathroom expansion, and other issues. I would like you to take this document that I can get you a copy of, I want to share with you the concerns that I have on the answers not being adequate. I still need an answer about what is being done to follow up to make sure that security officers at the facility are not treating the people who are presenting at the office with an appointment rudely, speaking rudely to them, refusing to speak to them in Spanish, and really giving them a general hard time. It is a very small parking lot. There is no coverage whatsoever, and I realize this parking is going to be expanded, but that won’t happen until next year. Additionally—— Mr. ALBENCE. Ma’am, can I answer? I do have some updated information if you would like. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Yeah. Just let me get this all out, because I have another question I want to ask you. Mr. ALBENCE. Okay. Thank you. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. The other issue that was not answered adequately was a letter is sent to an immigrant who is told to come for a specific appointment. When they get there they are told that they have to call the phone line and not only that the letter is not—is insufficient. When they call the phone line they are not connected with a person who speaks their language. The only option is in English. The answer that I got in writing was insufficient and didn’t provide me with an answer other than the policy about what is supposed to happen rather than trying to get to the bottom of what is actually happening. And then the other insufficient answer related to the distribution of food and water by volunteers. I understand that in the letter that you sent to me—in the memo you sent to me you detailed that they are instructed in their letter to bring adequate food and water while they wait and that it is your liability that is an issue allowing volunteers to distribute food and water. That makes no sense to me. If you look at the configuration of that parking lot, there is no obstacle or damage or harm that could come if people are simply allowed to bring food and water to help make sure we can relieve the difficulty of the people there. So if you could answer those questions and give me more sub- stantive, specific answers to those concerns, I would appreciate it.

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Mr. ALBENCE. Sure. So I did ask for an update beforehand. So I know the outdoor water fountains will be ready for public use on August 9 of this year. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. Good. Mr. ALBENCE. And the new parking lot will be available to visi- tors on August 22. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. The new parking lot in August, not next January? Mr. ALBENCE. August 22, right here. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. Good. Mr. ALBENCE. I know that there is a permanent canopy project being looked—again, GSA obviously is involved. I know they were in the briefing with you. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Yes. Mr. ALBENCE. And I have been in that facility about a year, year and a half ago. And I expressed concerns with regard to the conditions in which the employees were working in too because they are very cramped in there. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. It is really cramped. Mr. ALBENCE. It is. So, I mean, across the board, so I know it is being reviewed by GSA and our Office of Facilities and Manage- ment within ICE to try to—for pricing and getting a contract vehi- cle to put that in, so we are moving forward on that. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Okay. I appreciate it. And I just—— Mr. ALBENCE. We can give you just—— Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Yeah. I just need to talk to you more in detail about the concerns. Mr. ALBENCE. Okay. Happy to come talk to you anytime. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Thank you. REMOVAL OF VETERANS The other question I want to get out, ask you real quick, I chair the Military Construction Veterans’ Affairs Subcommittee, and what we are concerned about is that there are conclusions in a report written by GAO that looked into ICE’s failures to consistently follow your own policies when moving forward with removal proceedings for noncitizen veterans. According to GAO, some veterans who were removed may not have received the level of review and approval that ICE has determined is appropriate for cases involving veterans. The report also concluded ICE does not know exactly how many veterans have been placed in removal proceedings or removed or if their cases have been handled according to ICE’s policies due to a lack of consistent recordkeeping. So these are really disturbing deficiencies. Are you and your agency currently working to ensure consistent implementation of ICE policy for handling noncitizen veterans? Are you working to develop a policy that makes sure you know how many veterans are in your system and that they are being interviewed properly? And finally, the report recommends that ICE maintain complete electronic records on veterans and removal proceedings or who have been deported. You don’t have a system like that. Have you established one yet?

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Mr. ALBENCE. So the military veterans is something, obviously, that we are very sensitive to. They do require and do get a much higher level of scrutiny than an ordinary removal case. Oftentimes they are kicked up to—— Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. GAO report says that they are not getting—— Mr. ALBENCE. Again, oftentimes they are kicked up to headquarters. We don’t have—and I know it has been discussed. I don’t know where we stand, but I am certainly happy to get back to you about trying to find a code in our system that we can put in there so that we can readily identify which cases are military. So then, when we are asked questions about them or need to produce reports, it will be easily done. But with regard to having a complete electronic record, we simply don’t have the system to allow that. We have made requests in the budget for many years to have upgrades to our system that haven’t been funded. So absent a significant amount of funding that would allow us to have an electronic system of record that would have the whole A-File, I know CIS is working on something to the effect, but we don’t have anything like that. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Madam Chair, I know my time is expired, but these are people who have served our country, and they are supposed to be given a heightened level of review as a result of serving our country even though they are undocumented immigrants. If you don’t know how many of them are in your system then it is nearly impossible for you to be able to treat them with the dignity and respect that they deserve and thank them for their service. So, I mean, you can’t just say we don’t have enough money or the capacity to do that. You have to be able to keep track of them so you can follow your policy. Mr. ALBENCE. I was speaking to your last question with regard to an electronic A-File system, basically is what you sounded like you were looking for. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Right, it is, so you know how many are in your system. Mr. ALBENCE. Again, the funding for that is not available. We have ways within our existing system that I think can be tweaked that would allow us to do that. But, again, most of these individuals are—a lot of them actually aren’t undocumented. They were lawful permanent residents that actually were convicted of aggravated felonies, which is how they ended up being removed. Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. That is a different situation. I am talking about the people who aren’t. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate your indulgence. Yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Ms. Meng. Ms. MENG. Thank you, Madam Chair. FAMILY CASE MANAGEMENT Thank you, Mr. Director, for being here. I wanted to ask about the Family Case Management Program ATDs, alternative to detention. In June 2017, ICE terminated the

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00353 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 354 Family Case Management Program. The daily cost of family detention per individual is approximately $300. However, case management programs cost around $36 a day for one family. I just wanted to ask why ICE decided to terminate the Family Case Management Program. Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you. The Family Case Management Program was a program that was incredibly expensive for what the ultimate result was. So, for example, in the 18 or so months that the program existed there were only 56 cases that were concluded. Forty-one were actually terminated for noncompliance, meaning the individuals didn’t show up to their hearings; eight individuals self-removed; seven were issued a removal order or voluntary departure from an immigration judge; and nine received relief. So for the $17 billion or so that was invested in that program at the time we received 15 removals, which was about $1.16 million per removal, as opposed to—and with regard to compliance, the rates under FCMP were actually a little bit lower than under our standard ATD program, our ISAP, Intensive Security—Intensive Supervision Program, excuse me. And, in fact, this shows some of the challenges with dealing with cases in a nondetained environment. Three quarters of those cases more than 31⁄2 years later still haven’t been decided by the immigration courts. So that shows some of the backlog. So if we had kept this program at the cost that we were doing, we would probably be up to $26 million, $30 million right now, with maybe another $20 million or $30 million more to go, for less than 1,000 cases. It is just not good fiscal sense to try to keep that. Now, there were some things in this program that we found useful, that we have incorporated into our current ECMS, our Existing Case Management System, that is outside of FCMP, and those that we have implemented in there where we found might have some use, we have implemented that and put that in there. ALTERNATIVES TO DETENTIONS Ms. MENG. So, I mean, the OIG reports that the alternative to detention program had compliance rates of 99 percent for ICE check-ins and appointments and 100 percent attendance at immigration court hearings. When you are measuring success of the program does ICE include immigrants that it removed from the program who then later failed to comply with the requirement? And shouldn’t the program only measure compliance of those who are consistently and actively within the program? Mr. ALBENCE. Well, the ultimate purpose of the immigration court system is for an individual to be availed all due process and make their case in front of an immigration judge as to whether or not they have the lawful right to remain in the United States. So the ultimate measure should be whether or not the order issued by the judge is actually adhered to. What we have seen is that the number of individuals that are actually removed, which most of the individuals at the end of this process receive a removal order. That is just the way it is. Most of the individuals that make an asylum claim or apply for some sort

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VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00355 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 356 ily, have children, develop roots, all the while knowing that they had no lawful right to be in the country. And then when we go to effectuate that removal order we are tearing families apart, or it is just the poor noncriminal non- immigrant. I think it is more humane to do it on the front end and let them have their day in court. If they are entitled to stay, the judge will let them stay. If they are not, then we execute the removal order. And I think, frankly, that will reduce the pressure you are seeing on the border. The reason you are seeing all these people coming to the border is because they know we can’t hold them. Ms. MENG. Well, I just want to end by thanking you for acknowl- edging the importance of humane and swift treatment for these families, keeping them together. And you talked about all the legal options that they pursue. That is their legal right to do so. Mr. ALBENCE. Absolutely. Ms. MENG. Thank you. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Aguilar. DETENTION OF U.S. CITIZENS Mr. AGUILAR. One item that concerns me, you have talked about U.S. citizens, in response to a question, U.S. citizens that have been detained. ICE has a history of incorrectly detaining U.S. citizens. Two citizens in my district were detained by ICE and were later awarded settlements to compensate them for the arrest. In the fiscal year 2019 DHS bill we required ICE to issue statistics on the detention of U.S. citizens. The bill gave ICE 6 months to complete the report which was due in May. We haven’t received any of that available information. If a person can prove their citizenship with a passport or birth certificate, why are they being held further by ICE? What circumstances would that happen? Mr. ALBENCE. So I will check on the report, just first off, so I apologize, and I will look into that to see where we stand on that. We have a specific policy with regard to how we handle individuals who are making claims to United States citizenship that are in our custody. ICE does not have the lawful authority to say anybody is or is not a citizen. What we do is when we are provided with probative evidence that an individual in our custody is—looks to be a citizen, we will release that individual from custody and then instruct the individual how to go to CIS and do whatever pa- perwork they may need to do to actually get a naturalization certificate or a documentation of citizenship, whatever the case may be. So that is the process we utilize. A lot of the people that end up being citizens in our custody didn’t even know they were citizens. They actually don’t find out—the Immigration and Nationality Act is very complex. The naturalization charts, we used to have to memorize them in the academy, and that was a long time ago, and I can’t tell you I memorized them anymore. But it is very complex, and some of the individuals don’t even know that they are a citizen until we actually start to investigate their background and we realize that, oh, they are, in fact, a citizen, at which point we obviously——

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Mr. AGUILAR. Yeah, I am not, Director, I am not talking about cases where an individual finds out that they are a U.S. citizen. I am talking about cases where individuals have clearly said that they are citizens. What troubled me with your answer is that when someone looks to be a citizen. You know, I have got a list here of nine: Guadalupe Plascencia from San Bernardino, from my community; Sergio Carrillo from Ri- alto, but from Austin, Texas, 5 days detained, 2 days detained. These are U.S. citizens or individuals who were born in the United States and U.S. citizens or have been naturalized. These aren’t individuals who found out that they were U.S. citizens, Director. These are individuals who told your officers that they were U.S. citizens. And you are talking within the process of this that that you advance it when they look to be a citizen. It just strikes me that all of these individuals are Latinos and that you are talking about how someone looks. So can you talk to me a little bit about this? Mr. ALBENCE. I was not referring to anybody’s appearance, and that was clear if anybody listened to the context of what I was saying. I am saying when we review the individual, make an interview, look at their documentation, if the documentation shows—I will use the term ‘‘shows’’—shows that they have evidence, probative evidence of being a citizen, then that is when we release them from custody. I can tell you from my experience that I had it happen to me personally. Many individuals who are citizens in a border environment, especially if they are involved—primarily when they are involved in criminal activity—will claim to be a noncitizen because— especially when they are Mexicans. I was working smuggling cases as an agent in San Antonio. They would claim to be a Mexican national because they knew that they would get turned around 5 hours later, they weren’t going to get prosecuted, and they could come back in at will. So, again, we look at all the information that is in front of us to make that determination. Look, we have no lawful authority to hold U.S. citizens. We don’t want to hold U.S. citizens. That is not our business or our job. But we have to look at the evidence that is available to us. Mr. AGUILAR. But it is also difficult—in prior discussions we have had in this committee, we also found out that within the drop-down box that you had for where an individual is from, there isn’t—United States isn’t in that drop-down box. So it is even difficult for you to track how many U.S. citizens you detain, even for a small portion of time. What type of racial profiling education, what type of training do your officers receive, specifically applying to U.S. citizens, so we can be certain that this doesn’t happen as much? Three days, 2 days, 5 days, 3 weeks. There has been cases recently in the press, U.S. citizens—Members of Congress finding U.S. citizens who were detained not in ICE custody. I just want to make sure that we are learning through this. So can you talk a little bit about the training that you receive specific to racial profiling? Mr. ALBENCE. Sure. And there is no tolerance for racial profiling in ICE. It starts at the basic training level, where our officers and

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00357 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 358 agents receive training on racial profiling at the very beginning of their law enforcement career. We abide by DHS policy. We abide by DOJ policy with regard to racial profiling or cases that are being prosecuted. It is continually something that is stressed in our in-service trainings. We have supervisory schools. We have law enforcement training. There is no tolerance for racial profiling. Mr. AGUILAR. Yeah. I guess I would still like to follow up a little bit more on the documentation piece. If someone presenting—I don’t carry my birth certificate. But if someone, you know, has these documents and is claiming to be U.S. citizen, what is the dis- connect? Why are they continuing to be detained? Appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Cuellar. Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. I represent a lot of Border Patrol agents, a lot of CBP officers, men and women in blue, field operations, a lot of ICE officers also from San Antonio down to Laredo and down to the McAllen area. And I have to say, I do appreciate the work that the men and women do. I don’t think you all should be demonized. If there is an issue with a policy, we go after the policy. We don’t go after the men and women. If the current law—and some of the immigration laws that we have have been around for years, and it usually says laws passed by Congress, you shall do certain things. So I just want to just make sure that if there is a bad apple, we go after that bad apple. And I think you agree with me. But I just want to say that your men and women are probably the same people that were working under the Obama administration, now under the Trump administration. Again, not the men and women, but the policies, or if somebody wants to change the ‘‘shall’’ do certain things to the law, then Congress should go ahead and do that. DETENTION STANDARDS You also have certain protocols that you follow and—you know, because there are folks that say that there are no protocols. I mean, for example, you have the performance-based national detention standards of 2011, which I think was revised in December 2016. And that one, again, took the input from nongovernmental organizations and other groups to make sure that we improve medical, mental health services, access to legal services, religious opportunities, improve communication with detainees that have limited proficiencies, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. On top of that, we also have in the appropriations—and I started, I guess, in 2014, so I am looking at from 2014 on, there are riders that we have added, both myself and other members, that talk about detention standards, that talk about transparency and ICE detention centers, that talk about ICE detention facility contracts, for example. One of the sections prohibits ICE operation and support funds for being used to continue any contract for the provision of detention services if two of the most recent overall performance evaluations received by the facility are less than adequate, or something equiv-

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VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00359 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 360 either have prior criminal convictions or pending criminal charges, or they are immigration fugitives, or they were previously removed from the country and illegally reentered. What is the breakdown of that 90 percent in terms of those four categories? Mr. ALBENCE. About 66 percent are convicted criminals, about 21 percent are pending criminal charges, about 2 percent are the fugitives, and 1 percent would be the illegal reentrants. Mr. PRICE. When you say prior criminal convictions, what is the range of criminal convictions? Mr. ALBENCE. Well, the range of criminal convictions and the vernacular we utilize is the same as utilized throughout the law enforcement community, anybody who has been convicted of a criminal violation. In fact, we only get fingerprints from local law enforcement agencies when they submit them for a criminal violation. Mr. PRICE. So is entering the country illegally being apprehended, coming back in, is that a criminal—I just want to get clear. How many of these people are violent criminals, you know, as we often say, a threat to the community? Mr. ALBENCE. So our 2018 report is online. Off the top of my head, two of the top five charge—I think the top charge is DUI, then I know within that top five is drugs and assaults. And I don’t have those numbers directly in front of me, but they are on the website. We could certainly get them to your office this afternoon easily enough. Mr. PRICE. Well, it would help to, I would say, break down these categories a little more straightforwardly, knowing that as we discuss the prioritization, the exercise of prosecutorial discretion. You know, the point of that discussion is to prioritize dangerous people in terms of whatever else we do in the area of detention and deportation to prioritize people who are a threat to the community, knowing that that is the purpose of the discussion. It strikes me that there would be a much more helpful way to present these statistics than—you know, 90 percent sounds great, of course. I mean, I know why you would frame it this way. But even 66 percent prior criminal convictions, I mean, that begs for a further breakdown. Knowing—just being very straightforward here about the purpose of the policy, the purpose of the discussion, the purpose of the targeting, which, on this subcommittee, we have worked on for many, many years. And by the way, nobody is saying everybody else gets a free ride, but we have said for years that given limited resources, given the fact that we are going to deport maybe 400,000 people a year out of 11 million people who are here, there is going to be discretion exercised. And that discretion needs to be intelligently and appropriately exercised to remove dangerous people. So it would help at least to have statistics that are responsive to that concern. Mr. ALBENCE. I fully agree, and I wholeheartedly support being transparent. We have quarterly calls with the media with regard to all of our statistics when it comes to immigration enforcement. Our end-of-year report is about 20 pages long. It breaks down by nationality, by country, by crime, all sorts of things. I mean, thank-

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TRANSPARENCY INTO ICE OPERATIONS Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Director, before I ask my question, I just want to respond to something that you mentioned in your response to Ms. Wasserman Schultz, a question about the ability to provide reporting about ICE’s detention and removal of military veterans. You mentioned that part of the problem is due to a lack of funding to modernize your systems. In 2018, Congress provided an additional $6 million for this purpose, and in 2020, I recommended an additional $2.5 million. Both additions are above the administration’s budget request. I am also recommending an additional $2 million for your law enforcement systems and analysis division who do the analysis and the reporting. I am trying to help by adding funding above what you are asking for. If this isn’t enough, I think it is important that you tell us exactly what it is you need so that you can be more transparent about your operations. DETENTION FACILITIES I would like to just follow up a little bit more on some of what Mr. Cuellar was talking about with regards to detention facilities and the conditions that are there. And I have several questions, so I am going to try and ask as many as I can in the time that I have. First of all, it is really unacceptable, the substandard conditions at ICE facilities that have been reported, and also which I have, myself, seen in my visits. And I am hoping that we will be able to make some progress on that together. So one of my questions is, have you carried out a full review, and taken the necessary corrective actions to ensure that the recommendations from the OIG and the GAO and ICE’s own standards and oversight recommendations, are being implemented at every detention facility that ICE operates? Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you. Yes, we have. We have a comprehensive oversight framework that we utilize. I would say that our detention facilities receive more scrutiny and appropriately so, and we have no reason to have any reason not to have that scrutiny, and we welcome transparency. I mean, we have detention service monitors that work for headquarters that oversee facilities out there in the field. We have—in many of these larger facilities, we have assistant field office directors that are on the ground that deal with issues on a day-to-day basis. Some of these detention service monitors are on site. And thanks to you and the committee for the additional funding in 2019 for OPR, Office of Professional Responsibility, the Office of Deten- tion Oversight we received—were able to fund 14 more positions. And—— Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. And what is the status of that hire? Mr. ALBENCE. The 14 positions will be on board by the end of this fiscal year, and we expect to be able to do, I believe—and I can get you the exact number—I thought we were about 15—we plan to do about 15 more inspections this year than we were able to do last year, based on the additional funding. And obviously, once we get those new inspectors on, that will only increase going forward.

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Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. Mr. ALBENCE. I am sorry. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. I am just trying to get all my questions in time. Mr. ALBENCE. Go ahead. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. You know, we continue to hear disturbing reports that ICE is contracting for additional detention capacity where basic standards are not being met. One example is a relatively new facility in Texas that does not allow contact visitation unless there is a significant advance planning. ICE standards state that contact visitation should be provided, especially when minor children are involved. Remember, we are talking about civil detention, not criminal detention. And my question is, do you believe it is acceptable for ICE to enter into these agreements to provide civil detention services where reasonable opportunities for contact visitation with families and attorneys can’t or won’t be required, which is contrary to your agency’s own standards? Mr. ALBENCE. I am not familiar with that facility, but I will certainly look into it. On the larger question, as you well know, all of our contracts that we are required to enter into without—any contract that we enter into is supposed to be at the PBNDS 2011 standards. And, then, if we don’t meet those standards then we are supposed to notify Congress 30 days prior to actually entering into that contract, which we have done. And those notifications have actually probably been fairly few. Since I am not in the ERO day-to-day anymore, I can’t tell you how many there are, but I only remember one or two that we sent when I was the EAD. But I know all the new contracts that we are doing in order to get this additional capacity to deal with the border cases, we are contracting at the PBNDS 2011 level. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. The note that I have here that this is in Montgomery County, and that it was—you started using it Oc- tober of 2018, so if I could get some additional information. Mr. ALBENCE. I am happy to look into it. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Fleischmann. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Thank you again, Madam Chair. And thank you, Director Albence. This testimony is very informa- tional and helps us all do our job. DETENTION CAPACITY Mr. Director, the DHS Secretary sent a letter dated March 28 that states, and I quote, ″Without additional assistance, we will be forced to increase the releases of the single-adult population from ICE, the only population for which we can currently effectively enforce U.S. immigration laws.″ When meeting with Border Patrol agents, the point is made time after time that if we can’t keep up with detaining and returning single adults, we have lost the border. Question: Do you agree, does the sentiment of the March 28 letter still hold? Mr. ALBENCE. Without a doubt. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. How can we make sure that we don’t lose ground on this population, sir?

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DETAINEE HEALTHCARE Mr. ALBENCE. Again, dealing with the symptoms now, absent additional capacity, I don’t know how you would do it. There is not a way to move these cases through the system really much quicker than they currently do. And we certainly need to make sure that the individuals have all ability to access their due process rights, and so if they want to have appeals of their cases and the like, they are certainly free to do so, and we want them to have all due process. So absent additional capacity, there is only so many beds that we have and only so quickly we can turn them around. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. From your testimony earlier, and from what I have seen, it is evident that resources alone won’t fix this crisis. This is a very complicated set of issues that would have been solved by now. Again, going back to the March 28 letter, the Secretary referenced a legislative proposal to Congress in the coming days to address the immigration and asylum policies. My question, sir, do you know the status of an immigration proposal from the Department or the administration, and will we see an official proposal, sir? Mr. ALBENCE. Congressman, I don’t know the exact status. I can tell you that I know what the proposal contained, and it would have contained the items that—among others, but the three main items that I mentioned in my testimony with regard to Flores, the TVPRA, and the credible fear threshold. We can certainly check and get back with you. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. Mr. Director, recent outbreaks of measles, mumps, and chick- enpox have closed thousands of beds as you try to limit the expo- sure to just the affected cohort. How are you managing to contain the outbreak, and how many detainees are ill, and how many beds are affected? Mr. ALBENCE. So it changes. I am not sure how many we have. For the past 6 to 8 months, it has generally been around 4,000 to 5,000 beds that are cohorted as a result of diseases. And, frankly, that makes a point, which I should have made, so I appreciate you for bringing it up. Even with the expanded capacity, when we have to quarantine a whole wing, we could lose—so at any one time we may have 1,500, 2,000 beds that are actually vacant, but those beds are within the quarantine pod such that we can’t utilize them. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. What efforts are you making to ensure detainees at the affected sites specifically, and across ICE facilities, have unfettered access to medical care? And what efforts are underway to make sure the population isn’t introduced to new outbreaks, sir? Mr. ALBENCE. Again, with regard to not introducing the population, we utilize all standard practices within the detention environment, you know, to ensure those individuals are quarantined and kept separate from the general population, and are not released from custody until we are certain that they are past incuba- tion period and are clear. With regard to medical—and, again, thank you to the committee for the additional medical funding that was in the supplemental

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00364 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 365 that we put directly to use—we have been leveraging some additional resources from public health. As I am sure you are aware, the officer—we have sworn commis- sioned public health officers that do a lot of our medical and oversee our medical program, and that includes doctors, nurse practi- tioners, you know, social workers, the whole plethora of medical services that are provided. And they do a tremendous job, and their sole existence, and they take it to heart, is to ensure the safety and care and health of the individuals that are in detention. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Yes, sir. One final question. When do you anticipate the outbreak will pass, and what actions will you need to make the facilities safe to use again? Mr. ALBENCE. If I knew that one, I would be in Vegas. I mean, new people come in every day, right. The Border Patrol has no idea what they are going to catch, and we have no idea what diseases individuals are catching may have. So my guess is—it is not a new phenomenon, it has just expanded because the numbers have expanded so greatly. But we have had to do this in the detention realm for as long as we have held aliens. Mr. FLEISCHMANN. Very well. Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Ruppersberger. ALTERNATIVES TO DETENTIONS Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about alternatives to detention. About maybe a month, month and a half ago when I visited the border, witnessed significant overcrowding. We know—again, I think the biggest issue we have now is volume, and whether it is judges, whether it is dealing with this problem, and we are having a serious problem. I said yesterday in the hearing that the Border Patrol agent said, you know, when we make arrests, it used to be we would see them in court or whatever, and that is what we do here. Well, now you have a whole other dynamic to your mission, and that is holding these individuals. I want to talk about discretion with respect to your agency. You have the discretion to release many of the non-violent, non-flight risk detainees on parole or bond. Home visits, check-ins, telephone monitoring, GPS monitoring, ankle bracelets are options at your disposal. Again, looking to what your mission is and what I think—and Congressman Price and I both have tried to focus on the bad people, the individuals that are really—that we need the expertise of ICE officers to go after. That is where I would like to see your mission, and I would like this country to understand that. And what a lot of people are seeing is that we are going to come out and get you, and the families that have been here, and they are afraid and local governments aren’t working with you. I mean, it is just not where it needs to be. Now, my question is that—you know, I think we provided $20 million for alternatives to detention, and these programs are less costly to American taxpayers, more humane in standard detention.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00365 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 366 And they come with court compliance rates, you know, up to about 90 percent when you do put people in these types of situations. How fast can you expand alternative to detention programs to reduce this overcrowding? Which I believe helps you, it helps our country, it helps the image of what a lot of people are seeing is abuse of people and families and children. Mr. ALBENCE. So most of the—in fact, every—unless the small percentage that claimed negative credible fear within the family residential center environment and are found not to have it are released into the community. We have, at this point, based on funding, we have about 101,000 individuals on ATD. We could put, based on existing funding, about 64,000 people on the GPS bracelet annually, and keep them on there. At our current volume, that is about half the number of people that came in in the month of May, at which point, we would not be able to put anybody else on a bracelet until those individuals came off. And as you well know, on the non-detained docket, those cases may go 3, 5, 7 years, such that we would be able to put very few individuals on a bracelet from that point forward, meaning everybody else would just be released. And frankly, what we have seen, and which goes to why we have surged so many resources from his to the border to deal with these fraudulent family units is that the absconder rate for these family units is far higher than it ever was for the single adults that we used to use it on. So it is about 26 percent right now of the absconder rate for family units on these GPS. And we have got criminal investigations at his is ongoing, in which we have individuals that are under surveillance and watching them cut off the bracelets. And, again, I think a lot of it comes from the fact that these aren’t real families. It is individuals that are single-adult males that are renting a child in Mexico, paying a smuggler, or the cartel for that child, bringing them into the country, and as soon as they are processed and released, they can care less what happens to the child, and they go on about their way and cut their bracelet off. So, again, there is some success with regard to showing up at hearings and meetings. That success drops precipitously once the individual nears the end of their process because the chances of them getting removal order are going to be higher. If they are going for a status hearing or, you know, a marriage hearing, they may not get an order. So—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Let me stop you there because I have only got a minute. In policing, your job is to protect our society and arrests when people break the law. In some area where you have—and I am from the Baltimore region. I represent Baltimore City, and they have got a bad rep right now. We have got to work on trying to turn that around. Part of that is you have a system with somebody focusing on community type policing. So, instead of everyone who is here waiting whatever needs to be done that they are not going to fear ICE other than if they get arrested, they are going to be treated that way, because you have got an image issue.

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ICE IMAGE And as a Member of Congress, I don’t want you to have an image issue, because you have a mission, and that mission is based on the laws that we have passed. But you have got to work on this. Do you have any type of—and this is my last question, because my time is up now. Do you have any type of program trying to work on your image now, whether you believe it or not, is not good for 50 percent of this country? Mr. ALBENCE. I would love the media to publish all the tremendous things that we do, and we try diligently to get our story out there. Unfortunately, it is not sensational to say ICE did a good job and removed this aggravated felon, or ICE removed this murderer back to El Salvador while it faced charges, or ICE seized, you know, 1,000 pounds of fentanyl, or ICE rescued this child from ac- tive sexual exploitation. Those stories don’t get picked up. And I can do as many TV shows as I want, and a lot of it just falls on deaf years, unfortunately. And I think that is where we were going to earlier was just the rhetoric is so high on this issue—— Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Can I just have 30 seconds and give it to Mr. Price? It is just two numbers. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Two numbers? Mr. RUPPERSBERGER. Two numbers. I want to point out one concern: The amount of arrests for traffic is 26,000; traffic offense 30,000. That seems like it would be the highest numbers. That is part of our issue. Mr. Price is going to deal with that. I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Rutherford. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Madam Chair. Sir, Director, do you or your officers get to decide who will actually be deported out of custody? REMOVALS AND DEPORTATIONS Mr. ALBENCE. Again, unless the individual already has had their day in immigration court, and has received a final order of removal from an immigration judge, we are the front end of that process just as a local beat cop or a detective is in the criminal justice system. We are making the arrest based on probable cause and are following our charging document, which in our case is called a notice to appear, as opposed to, you know, a criminal complaint filed by a local jurisdiction. Mr. RUTHERFORD. But your men and women make no deportation decision, correct? Mr. ALBENCE. Correct. We make the arrest. The judge makes the determination with regard to—in limited circumstances, there are some cases in which individuals under the law are not entitled to a hearing with regard to the removability issues, but they are entitled to a hearing with regard to asylum or other form of relief from removal. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Right. And the reason I ask, and I think you said it earlier, you know, you don’t get to pick and choose what laws you are going to enforce. And so, one of the things that I think people need to understand—and it really kind of came up on the military issue—your officers, when they go to a 287(g) facility and

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00367 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 368 pick up an individual on a detainer, that individual has been charged, you don’t have a choice, you pick them up. Whether they have military service in their background or not, and how that will impact on their individual case is really up to the judge, not you or your officers. Is that correct? Mr. ALBENCE. That is correct. The judge makes the decision on removability. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Okay. So let me change gears here. While there was a decrease in the number of migrants that were crossing the border in June relative to May, we still have over 100,000 people that crossed the border. We are still hearing about the metering going on at the ports. CBP detention facilities are still over capacity. You just received $208.9 million in the supplemental bill. So my question today is, do you anticipate that that will get you through the end of the year, and that is going to be enough, or what is the burn rate on that? Mr. ALBENCE. So the money that we were given, and we are appreciative of it, is, you know, for the areas in transportation, medical services, the money that we were able to give to his to go down and do additional family fraud investigations and DNA testing, which has proven very successful, that money is greatly appreciative and went right to work. Unfortunately, from a detention perspective, we are still short and we are also still short a little bit in the transportation area. So, I mean, our request in the supplemental was around $110 million, and that need still remains. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Right. I tried to move $600 million over to you guys from forfeiture and seizures to address the detention beds and that failed. RAPID DNA TESTING But let me ask this also: After a successful pilot in May—you mentioned the rapid DNA processing—ICE, you all were awarded a $5.2 million contract for additional DNA testing and supplies. Can you give me an idea how that program is going, the rollout? How is it looking? Mr. ALBENCE. It is looking—when I say it is looking good, I mean that from an operational perspective. From a criminal justice and victimization perspective, it is looking bad because we ran the first week of it last week. We have opened up in seven different Border Patrol facilities. We have got two machines in each facility with more machines to come. And within the first week, there were 102 referrals to us. We found 17 instances of fraud based on the DNA test. And, in fact— this is an experience we saw when were in the pod as well—14 of the individuals broke to the fact that they weren’t really family units to begin with—— Mr. RUTHERFORD. At all. Mr. ALBENCE [continuing]. At all, before they even took the DNA test, because they saw that that was a potential for them. So we are continuing to pursue that as that rolls out, and we add additional machines and capability, I am sure that the results will go up significantly. And I am hopeful that there is some deterrent effect with that as well because word spreads.

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Mr. RUTHERFORD. Yeah. Yeah. And how many family groups have you discovered through that, where it is not a parent, but it is an aunt, an uncle, that sort of thing? Mr. ALBENCE. So we have got a couple things going on at one time. If you look at just the family fraud investigations that have been going on in the surge that we have got down there that is going on for several months, we are only getting the cases that Bor- der Patrol refers to us. So we have had about 3,000 cases referred to us. Through the investigative process, we have found about 400 of those to be fraudulent. Most of them—there are some that are family members. But when we are saying that they are fraudulent, they are presenting themselves as if they actually are father and son, or mother and son, whatever the case may be, or what we are finding a lot of them is that they are actually adults. So you have got an uncle that is 32 years old, and you have got a kid that is 19 years old, and he comes in and says, this is my 17-year-old kid, release us as family unit. So we have actually presented 790 prosecutions during this time, and 682 have been ac- cepted for prosecution. What we are also seeing, which is very troubling to us, and we are doing our best to combat it, is a lot of the individuals claiming to be UACs aren’t UACs. We are finding individuals that are 23, 24 years old coming up with 16-year-old or 17-year-old birth certifi- cates. We are extremely concerned about that, because those individuals are going to go into HHS custody. And the last thing we want is a 24-year-old male being in custody with a bunch of 10-year-old boys. That is an untenable situation for all concerned. You know, our overarching goal, as we have said all along, is to keep the safety of these children, and so we have identified 59 of those. Fifty-eight of those have been prosecuted. The U.S. Attor- ney’s offices down on the southwest border have been a tremendous partner for us. Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you for your service. Madam Chair, I yield back. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Aguilar. Mr. AGUILAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Director. ICE RAIDS On Tuesday this week, you told reporters that the reason ICE raids were successful is because the agency had the element of sur- prise. You also said that when media attention is drawn to potential ICE raids, it inhibits the ability of ICE agents to do their job. Is that a fair summary? Mr. ALBENCE. I am not sure I said we had the element of sur- prise with all the media attention that that got. But, you know, I am not sure the exact quote, but—— Mr. AGUILAR. Typically, when congressional offices ask for additional information about rumored raids, ICE frequently tells us that that information can’t be shared because of pending oper-

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00369 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 370 ations. You know that that is generally the response that we receive, correct? Mr. ALBENCE. The only thing—that is correct, except to the fact that I think it is a disservice to classify them as raids. We were going after targeted individuals who had been through the immigration court process who we know who they were and had been issued a removal order from an immigration judge. So I think doing a raid—again, I think calling them that height- ens the temperature with all these issues as opposed to just when the sheriffs go out, or a police department goes out and executes a warrant on somebody that has a warrant, they don’t call it a raid. They say, We are going to go arrest this guy. That is what we are doing. Mr. AGUILAR. Sure. And in some cases, there is quite a bit of collateral arrests that are made as well, and I think that is where, in my interpretation and that is my feeling—and we can get into a whole conversation about trust within the agency. And I think that, you know, you have talked a lot, and I know that that is a point of frustration at times for folks about that relationship with the community, but I think that that comes with trust. And when the collateral numbers, you know, increase and varies pretty significantly by field offices even, you know, that is a concern for us. That is a concern as a policymaker, and that is, I think, when you get into a classification, and what I would call a raid is when there are significant collateral arrests that are made. If you want to go in and target someone and you can highlight the criminality, you know, that is fine. But when you get into the collateral pieces and you start, you know, grabbing other folks who were in proximity and breaking windows, pulling people out of cars like, I mean, those are things that heighten the level, and I just want to make sure that you understand that that is what we are talking about. Mr. ALBENCE. I certainly do. And collateral arrests have occurred throughout the time of immigration enforcement, and they occur in law enforcement. Our law enforcement practices are the same as State and local law enforcement agencies. When they go into a residence and they have a warrant and they are going to identify for their safety, as well as the safety of the participant—or, excuse me, the residents of that house, they are going to identify those individuals. And they are also going to try to determine if those individuals have wants or warrants, or if that individual, maybe they have a gun on them, is committing a crime in their presence, they are going to arrest them. When I was with DEA; almost every time we went into a house and arrested the target of our warrant, there was somebody else, or many somebody elses, that also ended up being arrested. It is the same thing when we go into a residence. We go in for officer safety and ensure that we know who is in that house. The last thing we want is a tragedy, to have somebody jump out of a closet and scare one of our officers or—— Mr. AGUILAR. Someone with orders of removal is not the same as a drug dealer that you are getting at the DEA. I mean, I would just reject that comparison.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00370 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 371 But let me move on, because I just wanted to have that conversation about the announcements of targeted enforcement, I will call them. You don’t want to call them raids. So do announcements of ICE enforcement actions impact officers’ safety and effectiveness? Mr. ALBENCE. What we try to do is ensure that when we go out and do our operations, we have as much operational security as possible. When we go out to knock on the door or take an enforcement action, we generally notify local law enforcement to make sure we don’t have a blue-on-blue situation. So we make sure that there is information that the people in the community that would be in a position to need to know do know. Mr. AGUILAR. But the fewer people that know, generally the more effective and probably the better for officer safety. Is that fair to say? Mr. ALBENCE. Again, it depends if you are talking specifics or talking in generalities. If there is specifics, like when our operational plan was leaked to the media and there was specifics, that is disconcerting, yes. Mr. AGUILAR. So the President announced on multiple occasions that large-scale operations were going to detain undocumented immigrants as part of operation Border Resolve. Did the Department or you know that the President was going to announce those pending operations? Mr. ALBENCE. No. I don’t believe they reached out to us for our input. But I mean—— Mr. AGUILAR. Do you think it put officers’ safety in danger? Mr. ALBENCE. I don’t. Again, I mean, The Washington Post was reporting on this back in the fall. Again, when you talk about high level that we are going to be doing X, Y, and Z without specifics, I mean, I think everybody knows we are going to be doing immigration enforcement. We generally take, in the civil immigration context, 300 to 400 arrests a day. So our teams are out there every single day, so it is no secret that we are out there. Mr. AGUILAR. Yeah. It is no secret you out there. I mean, I think the President putting millions behind it and, you know, amps it up, you know, quite significantly. So I would just, you know, caution if—and I hear you talk about the rhetoric of this conversation. Well, you know, I don’t think that that is limited to Members of Congress is all I would offer. Thank you, sir. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Cuellar. Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Director, I know we have been talking a lot about immigration, but I also want to thank your men and women that do work on the other cross-border criminal activity, which includes financial crimes, money laundering, bulk cash smuggling, commercial fraud, intellectual property theft, cyber crimes, human rights violation, human smuggling, human trafficking, and other work that you all do. So I do want to thank them for the other work that they do, even though we do spend a lot of time on immigration. IMMIGRATION COURTS The other thing is, I feel that if you go to some of the countries they have their immigration courts at the border. Your folks have been a little resistant trying to put the courts at the border, I can

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00371 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 372 tell you. They will give me all these different excuses why. But, you know, I think we ought to hold people at the border, give them their day in court, give them their due process. And as you know, according to the immigration court office, if you have 100 people, 88 percent of them are going to be rejected from asylum claims, and then twelve of them are going to be ac- cepted. But unfortunately, if we let people into the country, they are here for 2, 3, 4, 5 years, whatever it is. Immigration courts also tell us that 44 percent of them don’t show up after they are given the permiso, the notice to appear. So I think we are doing it backwards. I think the Trump administration, the Obama administration have been doing it backwards, and we should have them there. So I would ask you to have your folks reconsider the positions that they have taken in the past where we have those immigration courts as much as possible. When we talk about immigration courts, that we have added, I think, about 315 since we started working on it, I guess since 2014, you know, the first thing they do is say, Well, we want to do video conference. Well, as you know, the reason they send judges to Houston, to New York, San Francisco, and all that is because they release people, then they want to put judges where the people have been released. So I think we are doing it backwards. But I would appreciate that and like to follow up. The other thing is we have been adding judges, and I think that your Office of Principal Legal Advisors needs to do a little—needs a little bit of help. I believe your information is, you probably need another 128 additional attorneys, and 41 additional support staff so the immigration judges can do the work. I think what we are missing right now are court space. We actually have more judges than court, and we are hoping that during this appropriation process, working through another subcommittee, that we add court space, number one; number two, that we add those attorneys, because if you don’t have those attorneys, it is hard for the judges to do the work. I would ask you also, because I do know a lot of immigration judges, that you all look at the old movie called the—the old show called ‘‘Night Court.’’ I do understand that your attorneys leave at 5:00 or so, from what I hear from judges, or somewhere 5:00, 6:00. And, you know, in many ways we ought to look at that show, and if we need to do a little bit of extra work, we should have some sort of nightshift to address the backlog. So anyway, we want to be supportive on adding more moneys on that, and I would like to get your thoughts on what I have just mentioned. Mr. ALBENCE. Well, certainly. And I agree that trying to—look, we have got to be inventive, and we can’t keep doing the same thing the way we have been doing and expect something to change, right? I agree, as you are seeing in the MPP context, we are setting up these courts at the POEs and holding the hearings there. Again, I think we can leverage VTC for that, both for EOIR. And, again, obviously they are the biggest player on this, right. They own the courts. They own the management of the courts. So, I mean, a lot

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00372 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 373 of this falls on their shoulder, and we work closely with them, of course. You know, but I think it holds promise. Again, the challenge comes into—especially now with so many of the family units being the largest number of cases coming in, right, that we can’t hold them, we can’t detain them under Flores long enough to get through that immigration court process. So that is one of the bigger challenges. I will tell you that—and when I testified when I was the EAD for ERO, and I will say it again, I will take 200 attorneys before I take 200 officers at this point, because the bottleneck is just there. The massive amount is there. I will get more productivity from those attorneys than I will from those officers, just because the work is there. And so we are working closely with EOIR to try to find some ways to do some of these things, if we can leverage technology. We have opened up courtrooms in some of our new facilities so that we can move those cases through more rapidly. But this is one of the ones where, again, it is resource dependent. And you are right, it is not just attorneys; it is courtrooms and facilities and support staff and the like, and we will take whatever we can get, plus some. Mr. CUELLAR. Thank you so much. Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Price. Mr. PRICE. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Director, let me just briefly revisit the statistics on whom you are detaining and deporting, mainly just to underscore my request, because I want to move onto another question.

CRIMINALITY BREAKDOWN But I have been looking at some figures about the breakdowns we were discussing. It appears that three of the top four categories in terms of people who are categorized as criminals, criminal convictions, three of those four categories are drug offenses DUI—I mean, traffic offenses DUI, traffic offenses more generally, and immigration offenses. Now, other crimes here are very serious, many of them violent. But as far as the numbers are concerned, I would just return to my prior assertion that, you know, our overall 90 percent figure really is not helpful. The appearance is, that it is obscuring the discussion more than it is helping with it, given the fact that the discussion has been and needs to be on prioritizing dangerous people, people who are a threat to the community. I appreciate your comments about the way the diversion of personnel from the interior to the border surge has compromised your abilities. On the face of it though, it doesn’t seem to me that would affect the ratio of it—yes, it affects the overall number who you detain and deport. It shouldn’t affect the overall ratio of dangerous criminals to others. So if there is any figures on that that would clarify the situation further, I would appreciate it. But we certainly need a breakdown of that 90 percent.

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SANCTUARY PLACES Now, let me turn to something that has been in the headlines in my own district, but that—it just puzzles me nationwide, and I want you to comment on it. There, of course, is a very often very difficult situation involving people who are taking sanctuary in places of worship. But how are you putting pressure on those immigrants and those who are supporting them? That is the question. And there is a recent case, a 38-year-old mother of four taking sanctuary in the Church of Reconciliation in Chapel Hill, in my district, one of five individuals taking sanctuary in a church in North Carolina, one of at least 50 across the country. Now, just out of the blue, July 1, she received notice that ICE intends to fine her $314,007 for, quote, willfully failing or refusing to leave the United States and for having, quote, connived or con- spired to avoid deportation. That amounts to $799 a day for each day that she has been in sanctuary. Now, apparently, she is one of fewer than ten undocumented immigrants living in sanctuary who received this notion of a fine for this just impossibly high sum they can’t possibly pay. It is my understanding the financial penalties for violating immigration laws, of course, do exist. They have existed since the mid-1990s. But it is very rare that they have gone above about $1,000. So what is this all about? Why is ICE now using these extremely severe financial penalties to target this group of individuals? How did you determine that it should be $799 a day? Actually, the law states that civil penalties for immigrants should be something like $500, it states, not more than $500 a day. What is going on with these fines, and how are you choosing whom to impose them on? Mr. ALBENCE. Thank you. So we have been looking at this. And, again, what we are trying to do is hold individuals accountable and try to restore some integrity to the rule of law and the immigration system. If you have individuals—again, and we are applying the laws that Congress has passed and authorized us to do. They have authorized that civil fines be levied on certain offenses or certain behavior. One includes a fine for an individual to ignore a voluntary departure ordered by an immigration judge. There is a fine that comes with that. There is a fine for failure to depart for individuals with final orders of removal. And there is very strict criteria that must be met in order for that to happen, and one of those is the order was issued in person. So it wasn’t even that—the individual can’t say they didn’t know they had the order. It has to be an in-person order, which is essential. The $799—and we did a Federal Register on this last year when we began the process, is accounting for inflation, and that is how it came to that amount. But if we are going to have any integrity with the immigration system, I don’t think we can have a system whereby somebody can avail themselves of all due process, work for—you know, work the system for 5, 6, 7, 8 years, and then when they get a result that they don’t agree with, go take sanctuary in a church where they know our sensitive locations policy prevents them from having the law enforced against them.

VerDate Sep 11 2014 04:06 Jan 18, 2020 Jkt 038921 PO 00000 Frm 00374 Fmt 6601 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A921P2.XXX A921P2 SSpencer on DSKBBXCHB2PROD with HEARINGS 375 So we are going to use all the tools available to try to gain compliance with the lawfully issued judge’s order. And part of this, too, is, if we want to have a secure border, there has to be consequences for illegal entry, and that means that you have to leave the country if you are ordered removed by an immigration judge. And if you fail to leave the country and there is a way that we can fine you civilly, then we are going to do that, too. Mr. PRICE. You think there is any doubt these people have that you are on their case? Mr. ALBENCE. Not now. Mr. PRICE. I mean, why are you doing this now? Why are you doing this now? How did you pick the 10 people around the country that you were going to slap these fines on? Mr. ALBENCE. So we have been doing it—I will be off a month or two—maybe October of last year we started this process. We have been going through each of the field offices. And, again, there is very defined criteria which an individual has to meet in order to be eligible for a fine. So it actually takes quite a while to review the case to determine if they meet all the factors required by law and statute to be amenable to being fined. So we have been going through various field offices. They are going through their cases of fugitives and individuals who have avoided orders of voluntary departure, trying to find individuals that are there. And some of the individuals, when we located them, we arrested them and removed them rather than fining them, because we knew where they were and able to locate them. But individuals that we can’t locate or aren’t able to find or that take sanctuary—I mean, put it this way, there is more sanctuary cases out there than those that were fined. It is the other ones that we reviewed didn’t meet the legal criteria for a fine. Mr. PRICE. Well, if you could, for the record, furnish what those legal criteria amount to. Mr. ALBENCE. Certainly. We have it all written down. Mr. PRICE. It is certainly a mystery to me and to my community. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. We are past the time, and appreciate your agreeing to stay here beyond the 3:00 schedule that we had originally given you. I do have some other questions that I will submit, particularly with regards to the treatment of pregnant women in detention that I will be following up. But thank you very much for your time, and look forward to continuing to work with you on some of the issues that have been raised. Mr. ALBENCE. As I do. Thank you. Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Thank you. The committee stands adjourned. [Answers to submitted questions follow:]

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