Ray Marginson, Interviewed by Robyn Sloggett
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‘High drama and … comedy’ Developing the cultural collections of the University of Melbourne The second in a series of interviews significant elements in the building The placing of this significant of Ray Marginson, speaking with of our collection; the first was the work in the new conference room, Robyn Sloggett continued generosity and careful with its splendid full-length red selection of works by the late drapes that can cover the large sash- Robyn Sloggett: Ray, I feel we have Dr Joseph Brown, the other, the hung windows, its red carpet and its only begun to touch on the ‘high wealth of Australian material specially designed 32-person table drama and comedy’ of your included in the bequest of Sir Russell and chairs, was not without irony. involvement with the development of and Mab, Lady Grimwade. The room was provided to give the the University cultural collections.1 Joseph Brown was a major University what it did not have up to I remember the period when you were supporter of our gallery initiative, and then (apart from the council Vice-Principal as one of very active a frequent and considered donor, who chamber), a meeting room capable of support for the University’s cultural knew weaknesses in our collection accommodating the extremely large development, and this was a broad and, whenever possible, filled them. professorial selection committees. support. You were interested not just In 1982 we gave him a special The trial indeed. for the gallery,2 although I think this exhibition of the 33 works he had Of all Dr Brown’s gifts I think my may have been your special passion, given us to that date. I have many favourite is the beautiful small version but of course the development of the memories of the unexpected of Bertram Mackennal’s Salome grounds and the more general sense appearance of many of his gifts; none (illustrated opposite, above). of the cultural identity of the more memorable than the telephone University. In our last talk you call that said, ‘Ray, I have a painting I can see you can go on indefinitely about indicated that there were other for you, it is Leonard French’s the gallery, but I would like at this point aspects of the gallery development The trial from his 1960 Campion to draw you back to a focus on the you would like to cover. paintings’ (illustrated opposite). grounds and buildings, and enhancing My involuntary reply was ‘I didn’t the overall quality of the site. There are a Ray Marginson: Yes, Robyn, there is think you owned it.’ His reply was, ‘I large number of probably apocryphal much to recall over the two decades bought it this week.’ The explanation stories about your role in protecting and plus of my involvement. The problem was that the police had just returned developing the heritage architecture on is the work in the grounds and the several works from his collection that campus. What were the most successful gallery interwove quite a bit, so you had been stolen. This was his celebra- battles you undertook on this front? might have to bear with me if I slip tory gift. Later, when Daryl Jackson The answer here relates to the much from one to the other. and his interior designer Jan Faulkner wider topic I have already mentioned, On the gallery itself, from early on asked what colour should be used in the then state of the grounds. I had a we received many significant gifts. I the new conference room in Old completely different view from that have already mentioned Sir Joseph Physics, my answer was ‘coagulated which I heard at Cambridge later, Burke and Colonel Aubrey Gibson. blood’, the predominant note in The that said it didn’t matter how broken However, there were two most trial, which would hang there. down or inconvenient the building 12 University of Melbourne Collections, Issue 5, November 2009 Left: Bertram MacKennal, Salome, (c.1900), bronze, height: 27.0 cm (excluding base). Reg. no. 1980.0010, gift of Dr Joseph Brown, 1980, University of Melbourne Art Collection. Below: Leonard French, The trial, (1962), enamel on hessian on hardboard with spackle and plastic flowers, 228.5 x 183.5 cm. Reg. no. 1979.0043, gift of Dr Joseph Brown, 1979, University of Melbourne Art Collection. © Leonard French, 1962. Licensed by VISCOPY, Sydney 2009. was in which you worked, it was the work that was central. The reference here, I think, is to the tin sheds, which were Rutherford’s laboratories, where the fundamental experiments that were part of the work that ended in nuclear fission, were carried out. I could not have disagreed more. The state of our grounds was abysmal and depressing and buildings were haphazardly located without a coherent plan and many were run- down. There had been many attempts to plan but all, in the end, were frustrated by individual interest and advocacy about the placing of particular buildings. I felt that something must be done to demolish the war-time fibro huts and other ‘temporary’ buildings that were all over the site (including a two-storey one north of Wilson Hall that housed the accounts branch and other administrative functions); also to get rid of the asphalt which was everywhere, the swamp that existed in winter (on the site of the old lake) between the Union and Old Commerce, the uncontrolled car parking and speeding traffic. Further, that everything was to be gained by creating a pleasant working environment for staff and students and by restoring and improving the many older architectural treasures on the campus. Somehow we had to get University of Melbourne Collections, Issue 5, November 2009 13 Michael Meszaros, Pair of commemorative plaques, 1975 and 1977, bronze, each plaque height: 45.3 cm. Reg. no. 1979.0097.002, commissioned 1976, University of Melbourne Art Collection. quality back in the grounds and make home. The newly appointed Vice- historic buildings, the appalling state it a pleasant place in which to work Chancellor, Sir David Derham, fully of the grounds, and dangerous car and learn. I was not the only one who supported my visit. It was then our traffic in the parking-choked felt like this and many who did so, further great good fortune to have, in roadways. like Professor Carrick Chambers in the first person to occupy the co- So I feel compelled to talk of all Botany, Professor Max Hargreaves, ordinating role of Controller this as comprising a single objective; Hume Dow, John Anwyl and others, (Buildings) that I established to draw that is, to get our University up to were later to play a vital role in together the physical side, the late Bill scratch in all these areas. I must changing things dramatically. It was a Curlewis, a highly experienced ex- emphasise however that all of this was time (1969 to 1972) when capital army engineer. Whilst I was away he to a substantial extent subordinate to funds, on the advice of the Australian busily straightened out and structured the major financial problems facing Universities’ Commission and his area, with the help of Maurie the University. The history, in following the Murray Report, were Pawsey, later himself Controller, and a particular, of the critical years 1968 to being allocated by the Common- key figure in the implementation of 1975, of the addressing of the dire wealth on a reasonably generous basis all the site and buildings work that budgetary problems, and the to universities. This made it a feasible followed. fundamental role of Sir David plan. It was a period of major Again a long-winded preamble, Derham assisted by the Deputy Vice- building construction and planning of but again a necessary one, to Chancellor David Caro, is covered siting was clearly essential. understand where I was at the end of fully in Poynter and Rasmussen’s I had been fortunate to be 1968. My thinking had firmed on the A place apart.3 The tackling of the nominated as the Australian Fellow need to draw together, protect and problems I am talking about was for the Eisenhower Fellowship to the improve the physical assets of the achieved in many ways: by USA in 1968. This was an extra- University, its grounds, buildings and Commonwealth capital grants, by ordinarily generous scheme where the of course the substantial holdings in borrowing (e.g. for the south lawn recipient is fully financially supported the cultural area. As I said in our first and underground carpark); and by and ensured access to any areas in interview, it was at the end of 1968 generous gifts and support from North America in your field of when I returned from the Eisenhower individuals and foundations. interest. At the end of the first two Fellowship that we appointed our first So, when I returned we speedily years in my role, and having dealt curator for the gallery. moved to appoint the master planner, with some of the urgent financial I find it difficult to separate the Bryce Mortlock, a Sydney architect. problems and the initial elements that drove my thinking at Thus came, in 1970, the Master Plan reorganisation of the administration, that time. The cultural holdings to me Report that told us, among other I was able to spend seven months were important; to establish a gallery recommendations: to enclose spaces, looking at old and new universities in to show them was important; equally close off the central area to traffic and the USA and Canada, with a quick important were the state of the fabric introduce controlled and coherent three weeks in the UK on my way and the decay of the stonework on the planting.