LOOK ■ OCTOBER 5, 1d71 Voturn• 25, No. 20

Hugh Downs to Frank McGee: THE BIG SWITCH ON THE TODAY SHOW

In mid-C7clatfer, Frank McGee 1011 replace Hugh vision news. I think we're shallow I think we're Downs as host of the NBC Today show. Downs. brief. Pert of this le built Into the medium. There like his predecessor, on the program. Dave Garro- is Nat way and John Chancellor, is a "cool" personality— so much time available. Part of this could be corrected. I think. easy, loose and slow ro display anger. Frank M::- Gee hoe a quite different manner. His movement However, these valid charges bother me lees than the attack upon television itself. are quick, his speech tends to be sharp . The three branches of Government are quite Recientfy, 1 conducted a two-hour interview properly jealous of their prerogatives end of the with McGee and Downs. it gives sonic hint of how concept of government that separates the Today show is (Way to change with the trans- their pow- fer of command. er*. But I would be arrogant enough to suggest that It is even more Important that the press be sepa- Question: How do you feel about your freedom to rated from them than that they be separated from say what you went to say on television? each other. But, of course, Mr. Agnew is not really com- Downs: There is n type of self-ceneorehlp that is plaining about television news. What he's corn- most Important to longevity in this business. In the Warning about Is criticism. If television news and same way that we wouldn't smoke In church, there the analyses that have been done on television are certain thing., or ways of dealing with things. were favorable to the Administration, had be the Oust I wouldn't do on the air. But I don't think it leat one to open his mouth So he's not really compromises any of my basic Ideals. I certainly arguing about fairness or unfairness, bias or lack wouldn't say something on the air that I didn't of bras. prejudice or lack of prejudice. What he's believe. complaining about Is criticism. Now one more thing. It is absolutely vital that McGee: Hugh. I don't think We so much a matter the people understand that you cannot censor the of saying press. You can only censor the people. And when something you don't believe, as it is of Question: Whet concerns you most about tele- failing Agnew, or anybody like him. directly or indirectly to say something you do believe. vision new. coverage today? ettempte to intimidate end thereby alter the way Ceram Well, that. true. I've never telt "Gee. I new. is presented, he doesn't give a damn about McGee: At the moment? The attack, made upon wish I could cell that one back." I've never fait 1710 and whet I say. He's not it. I won't say its an "orchestrated conspiracy." trying to censor me. that But I've kept silent at times, and I've bean He's trying to censor the people. And they're the Sat clearly the Vice President hes been the chief haunted by the fact that I should have spoken only one. who count. The freedom that the First . offender in this matter. Chief Justice Warren E Amendment guarantees is not my personal prop- Burger wee quoted as retelling the days when McGee: In this matter of freedom of speech, you erty. It wee put in there for the benefit of the peo- politicians used to horsewhip reporters. The feet have to consider your qualifIcatIone. I don't seek ple. And it's crucial that they understand this and politician who tries to horsewhip me is gong to to pop off on any given subject. I dont know realize who has the most to gain by lying to the get whipped in return. enough. I don't think any of us has the expertise people—e reporter or a politician? I'm damned tired of having people who are for that. I could not write the editorial page of the The precise moment that not qualified. and who have no evidence to suppon Mr. Agnew has any New York effect whatsoever on how t do any news story, In- Times every day . them, gratuitously Impute motives to me that I do But there have been occasions when I would cluding a story about hint, he will, in pert have not have. Or who assume I am approving or dis- like to have said thrnge—more things—than I have achieved his purpose. So I am bound and de- approving of something I report. I think there are permitted myself to say termined that he will not make me be more anti- . Charges that can validly be Imid at the door of tele- Administration, or ono-Administration. Because if

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INTERVIEWED BY RICHARD BALLAD

toot tos-ti 13 TODAY Corieteletto Downs That's very perceptive. I finally came to the he makes me mare anti-Administration, he will also conclusion that the world le not all that thirsty for have altered my way of thinking. He shall not du any- my opinion Besides, it's going to leak -"`' that hie can change my thinking by the fair and —any words. You mill way, even if I don't say It reasoned content of his opinions, yea But he know, the host fol....t odey la unique. You're en You're never change it by attacking the news media. By ugly duckling. You're not an entertainer. name-callIng. By threats I think well have a free not a talk-show host. You're not—in may case—a press in this country long after Mr Agnew has de- newscaster And in your case. Frank, you'll have w hin you In order to parted the scene, if we insist on this point. to §:moorage the newscaster Today show job. meet the peculiar demands of the Question: Fronk, why did you choose to move out There's not another Job like iL of the hard news and documentary field and into this unique area of television where news lives Question: Do either of you have any bad on-the-air cheek by jowl with show business? habits that you'd like to break?

McGee: I hope this will not sound too egotistical. McGee: Yes. Sure. I interrupt people. Constantly. The fact is that for more then 20 years I have been In line with the, let me tell you an amusing ex. doing hard news. Even the documentaries rye patience I had in the Aleutian !elands, which le not dor. have been based on hard news develop- an amusing place It was on Attu. 1 used to hang ments_ Neceealty has restrained me. quite ef- around the radio station because that's where I fectively, to one dimension, 6 convention wanted to work. On some very rare occasions, et One day we were sitting around this Quonset or on en election night. or something like that. a but station, Keying a bear bust. Unknown to us. the little levity was allowed But only a little. On those chief engineer put on an acetate disc and started of the whole person begins occasions some Idea recording our conversation. Then he made us lis- to come through, and the audience sees this. If ten to the playback. I discovered that hardly a per- they like what they see, they respond to it. Now son had been able to complete a sentence without when I substituted for you on Today, Hugh, I found big-mouth McGee interrupting. That was over a It was very satisfying to sit there and be myself quarter of a century ago and I still haven't licked it. end not Just part of myself I enjoyed it. So It was But I think I'm a little better than I used to be. more than one dimension. Maybe two. you know? I don't want to butter you up. Hugh, but I don't Today show for Downs: Well, I could talk at day on that subject. think anybody could last on the Probably my worst habit is that I mumble. You're nine years, as you have, if he were shallow. To very good, Frank. You say it straight end sharp. constantly came up with something from out of But if I'm on unsure ground, I sometimes get a yourself, day after day, is a severe teat of a par- mumbling fit. Later. I'll listen to the tape and think, son's depth. "Speak up, men." I thought of that recently during an Interview Another thing—Joe Garaglola pointed out that with come newspaper people. They asked whether when I get angry with a guest.... I would create a "new image" for the Today pro- anyone who gram. I told them I would not and that McGee: What? Hugh Downs angry? On the air? knew me would never realty entertain such a pos- sibility. I am cursed with the character I have, I Downs: Yep toe says he can tall when it happens men, cannot create a new one. Nor would I try. because I start calling the guest "sin" If It's a -sic" that is. So far I've never celled a woman Downs: It', really fetal if you do try to put on an though I've been tempted a few times. Anyway, act But there is a weird tendency toward image- raga inspires me to formality. Maybe theta e TV making in television. An Image seems to crystallize news quality. around you like rime ice on the leading edge of Concentration, a your wing. When I wee still doing McGee: Maybe so. Ifs a sort of professional dis- lady in the audience said to me, "That wasn't like cipline, but it causes ulcers. I can tell you that you to say 'damn' on the sir." And I told her that from sad personal experience. whatever it was I mild. it was like me. I have to display my true self That's my duty to the viewing Downs: Fortunately, there isn't much to cease public. For example. if the idea gate around that ulcers on our program. But I think what does ag- I'm more bland than I really am—and I do tend to gravate me la to have a guest who is a roaring the blend side—it then behooves me to shake bigot. but who is also smooth, articulate and per- things up a bit. Spicing up my language now and suasive. That will get me going every hire. then serves the purpose end merely broadcasts what I do, on occasion, anyway I remember on the Question: Hugh. is there any subject you've wanted old Tonight show how jack Pear, tongue-In-cheek. to take up that you've never been able to tackle would promote the Idea that there was some par- on the Today program? ticular erudition attached to lee, And this was amusing until I saw that some people were taking en image Downs: No, in my almost ten years, I really think it seriously That's dangerous If you get we've dealt with lust about everything. There are do more. The that is pleasing to the ego and you begin to buy it, subjects on which I would like to look out, The downhill of the magician le when he American Indian. for example. But if you give such begins to believe in his own magic. subjects the exposure they deserve, you wind up with a show that is out of proportion because there Question: Frank, whet do you think will happen just isn't enough time. There is also the danger that when you take over Today? Will you tend to ex- eomething you feel strongly about may become en press yourself more freely? obsession. People tuning In often become so in- furiated that you sometimes defeat your purpose. McGee: I don't know, I would expect to become For example. I tend to be suite radical about more windy, perhaps. I might tend to revel in the drugs and that Irks some people. I think we have to new atmosphere I could, however, go the other gat at the root causes of drug abuse and really way. I could become so conscious of It that I might beer down on the preventive aspects. Punishing pull in my horns and be lase opinionated.

l4 Wet 15.5.0

Ocala and publishing exaggerated scare propa- lapel. Several people said to me. "I didn't think you garde are techniques that have shown themselves ardy number three By Cod, I've had enough leoo- were a far rightist." Well, I'm not_ Who said the Far to be counter-productive. Perhaps the President's ardy. I want everybody off iry middle-aged beck Right owns the flag? Who said any group owns it? . new Special Action Office for Drug Abuse Preven- tion is a step in the right direction: the recruiting Question: One final question Soma people feel we Question: How do you feel about the future cf of young people to form a new peer-group motiva- are over-communicated. What are our communica- America? tion. the re-accrediting of research, and the dis- dons doing for us, end to us? For example. are semination of truth about all drugs, legal end il- they endangering the jury system? McGee: Well. I was talking. not long ago, with a legal. The solution of the drug problem will not be man who was an immigrant end who is now an found in harsher laws. That re what made Prohibi- McGee: Well. in the first place, It was not intended American citizen. He asked me. rather wistfully, tion a failure. that a jury be formed of those Whether I thought America could survive Its ex- who had heard noth- Sensible legislation and then regulation is ing about the case. Il is only intended that a jury be cesses of the moment. I told him I thought that the much more important and effectlee than outlawing formed of those who have not formed a Ceesendras in our midst always get more atten- judgment. something. Nobody can find out the extent of harm Now. for the larger question, concerning com- tion than the Pollyennea. Yet, I ritual admit I'm not that marijuana may represent because research munications as a whole, I'd like to note first that too aura of what's going to happen on the ?elbow is sort of discredited. It'a a taboo. . there has long been a cliche that increased corn- God knows I love this country. But I know, too. Like VD research a century ago. municatiors bring about increased understanding. that It In really less Important that America survive Never believe that. than that the good things McGee: What gets are le that the mere fact that that America represents Increased communications bring about in- survive lie hard for me to say that. But we must my generation °epeeist, drugs makes It almost creased misunderstanding. At least, Initially, remember that our deepest ideals are not solely, compulsive for some young people to use them. I We find that whet we thought was true often or even primarily, of our invention. We are merely don't know what can be done once you reach the et not true. That confuses us, annoys um and, final- the present caretakers for a set of moral, ethical pant where respected figures who neve done re- ly, angers us. It's hard to readjust our attitudes. and legal principle. that have fallen Into our hands search and have arrived at sound, clinical conclu- When you are constantly fad new information. at- for safekeeping It Is less important that we survive sions about a drug heye their findings dismissed titudes must change Consistency is often the re- as a country than that these hard ideals and prin- [empty because they are members of the Estab- sult of ignorance, you know. Uhimately. It Is possi- ciples should continue to govern our lives. ble that we will reach greater levels lishment. The suspicion Is there, on the part of the of understand- drug abuser, that he's being lied to in order to pre- ing. But that doesn't mean that we will have great- Question: We've talked of youth. Whet about age. vent hint from having a good time. er harmony or that we will Ike each other more. and aging? I can understand you, Hugh, end you can under- Question. You said that some drug users don't stand me. But we can still hate each other. Deemer I view it differently each year. I don't dread trust the results of research. Isn't some suspicron the concept of aging, as I once did. I know I's a called for regarding Establishment pronounce- Downs: It's the old joke. You've really got to know Problem for ments. when you consider how many respectable men" people in a society that tends to the guy to hate him. Ed Newman once remarked reject the old, ae/d the old values. But lint not so people and organizations have been caught lying that perhaps there were certain groups that, in the sure that we are that much of a youth-oriented so- lately? Isn't there interest of peace and harmony. should not com- Come basis for the suspicion ciety. Some of the activities of the youth them- that "authority" Isn't always authoritative? municate with one another at all He was being selves may be demolishing that Idea. I think the half-facetious, but only half, best really is yet to be. I think of myself at 25, and McGee: Of course. we cant subscribe to the idea that have to approach that circuitously. the emotional windmills I had to tilt, and the fear I have seen, from many directions, aseaults upon Ignorance's bliss But we now have an Information had, and the hatred I had. Really, I'm our value system, Assaults from much younger overload. within end with- now. in many ways. out the Establishment. I don't like any of those Perhaps in our evolutionary makeup, we have who weaken the base of our collective assump. never been fitted with the mechanism to cope with McGee: I have no interest In getting younger. I tions about ourselves. Butt also know that some- the amount of date flow that now comes to our have been 16. I have been 35. Now I am 50. I have thing has happened in this country in the peel half- brain. We're in a spiral of accelerated Information. no desire to go back. I'm not the same person at dozen years. But It is one of the Joys 50 that I was at 35. Neither le my wife, thank God. and burdens of journalism So much of It is traceable to the war in Viet- that we should provide a kind of selectivity func- No, I want to live. And I know that means nam. This war is the great lie of this century, eo far tion for the public. Journalism has always dope charge_ And i can't wait to see what the changes as this country is concerned. And that fundamental that, but never more than today. will be. I think old people have a lot to tell us. They lie, coupled with alr the lies that have sprung from I remember when I got my first look at a We- say. "Take It a little easier. You don't have all the It, era. indeed, the beam f edy library with stacks of books. two-stories high, or the lack of belief that answers. It's not all that compelling that you do venous segments of the society have In other parts running into what seemed like Infinity. It gave me a have all the answers. You'll find that you've wasted of it. suffocating sense that if I lived to be a thousand a lot of energy and time on a lot of things that real- Those who have caused this, these who have and read all the rime, I couldn't scratch the surface ly weren't worth It." capitalized upon I. be they young or old. white or of knowledge. black, they are the true villains. They I learned that it isn't important to remem- Question: What about the way older people era Self-examination is good. it's vitally necee- ber all the facts, but that t is important to develop living? Many, perhaps moat, of them are living sary. Arid good Minos come from it. But self- a aerse of proportion. a sense of judgment and a apart from the other age groups. Grandma is not hatred is simply destructive. And aelf-hatred is sense of humor. These will then determine from so eager to baby-sit anymore. And we are not so rampant In this country well you will select the truly important facts eager to have Grandpa live with us. or near us. and On the other hand. those who would try to tell ideas. Some old people say this is all the fault of our gen. me that I'm not a patriot because I don't blindly ap- eration, which has neglected the old How about prove of everything the Government doer., when I McGee: Yes, we do try to do that. every day. But that? know more about this country and have loved it for the selective process is hampered by many things. so long, in spite of Its feulte—well, such people Availability of material. for example. You can't get McGee: One of my cherished betels re that ea man annoy me very much. I will not allow them to tell me all the news. That is something many people don't cannot be held in double jeopardy. And damn It, It what patriotism is simply because I don't make the realize. The simple knowledge that something has seems to me that my generation, which IS now names they want to hear I'm not in their damned happened often isn't available to us. Sometimes it middle-aged, is in double or even triple leoparde. parade. la deliberately hidden from us I often wonder, on When I was a kid, If you turned out badly, well, it any given day, what things are happening that are was your own fault. So said society. So I grew up Downer I can't view America as having a rotten of crucial importance and I didn't turn out too badly. Then I looked but of which we know noth• care. Then 'a plenty of rot in the rind, no doubt of Ira, or whose impotence simply escapes us at the around and, guess what? Now they were telling that, But to jump to the conclusion that all is rotten time. me that if my kide turned cut badly, it would not be Is simply to push a self-fulfilling prophecy. I also How many etnnes are tucked away In ar- their fault. It would be my fault. That's jeopardy Feel strongly about the appropriation of the Ameri- chives? How many stories are the secret proper- number two, right? And fir can flag on one hand and its desecration on the -1811y, now I hear some ty of one person? How many world-shaking events old people saying that their lives are meaningless, other For a long time. I wore a little flag in my never shake the world because they remain se- barren and empty, end again, it's my fault. leop- crets? That's what makes reality so fascinating.

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