189 Viscussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry oflnforma- 190 tion and Broadcasting

big business and so on I hope my friend, Mr. Lokanath Misra, who has become my conscience-keeper in Parliament will rally to my support when I demand that the voice against monopoly, big money and reaction shall always prevail in this Parliament and in this voice both :-ides shall join together. That high tradition we shall always maintain. SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR: It will be maintained. Do not worry.

THE ARMS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1971 THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PERSONNEL (SHRI RAM NIWAS MIRDHA): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill to amend the Arms Act, 1959. The question was put and the motion was adopted. SHRI RAM NIWAS MIRDHA: Sir, I introduce the Bill. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA (): What about the papers I asked for? MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In the afternoon, we are discussing the working of an important Ministry and a large number of Members will he participating in the debate. Therefore, we will have to adjourn till 2 P.M. only.

The House stands adjourned till 2 P.M. The House then adjourned for lunch at half past one of the clock

The House reassembled, after lunch, at two of the clock, THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA) in the Chair. DISCUSSION ON THE WORKING OF THE MINISTRY OF INFOR- MATION AND BROADCASTING

191 Disciissian en working [] to Ministry of lnjorma- 192 tion and Broadcasting

193 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry oflnforma- 1 194 tion and Broadcasting

"Confidence in the faithfulnesi of official information has to be generated. Suspicion of official information has deepened in because of incorrect, even improper, use of the media, -for personalised publicity aiu" an undue accent on achievemen -t is necessary to correct this CujSortion and also to pose in proper perspective the many problems which confront the country without withholding adverse facts while at the same time stating convincingly how the remedy lies in the people's hands."

"The Recommendation is accepted and action is being taken." 195 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] oj Ministry of Informa- 196 Hon and Broadcasting

fuse names with namesakes, just as Cinna the poet was torn to pieces by the Roman mob thinking he was Cinna the conspirator, in spite of his protesting that he was Cinna the poet."

"Most pressmen are still impressed by credibility not by scotch."

'It is no use demanding instruments indiscriminately as belonging to the right or to the left "hen there has been no evidence of | leftism of any kind, and even left- J ism must inspire confidence and trust. It is also not right to con- 197 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] oj Ministry oj Informa- 198 tion and Broadcasting

199 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Inform a- 200 t\on and Broadcasting

This Press Council Act must be provided with some teeth to decisions enforceable. 201 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Informa- 202 tion and Broadcasting

"We agree that advertisements cannot be claimed by newspapers as a matter of right. We also agree that the Government would be justified m withholding advertisements from papers which habitually indulge in journalism which is obscene or scurrilous, which gives incitement to violence or endanger the security of the State. Bearing this in mfnd, the Government should give advertisements having regard to the following considerations:

(i) Circulation of the paper and the rate charged by that paper, and

(ii) readership designed to be reached for the purpose of the particular advertisement."

This should be brought within the purview of the Press Council. If any paper is denied advertisements on political grounds, if any paper is subjected to vindictive action by the Government of India or any State Government through advertising.

203 Discussion on working [RAJYA SABHA] of Ministry'of Informa- 204 '.* Hon and Broadcasting

"With regard to the import of the main body of feature films we suggest a complete change of attitude which is at present commerce and politics oriented to an attitude which should be conditioned by considerations of cultural aesthetic and artistic values only. We have to conserve our foreign exchange. In all other fields of activity we permit the import of only those commo it-ties which are absolutely essential. We have placed an emerge on all type of luxuries because we cannot afford to import those articles and also because we are anxious to encourage their manufacture in our oWh country. We feel that the same rule should be applied to films and only those foreign films be allowed to be displayed which have outstanding cultural, social, scientific, aesthetic or educational value."

SHRI T. CHENGALVAROYAN (Tamil Nadu): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I am indeed glad and profoundly glad to take part in this debate on tlw 205 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971 J of Ministry of Informa- 206 Hon and Broadcasting Report on the working of the Ministry of has undertaken and I will be failing in my Information and Broadcasting. I should have duty and untrue to my tradition if I do not certainly felt considerable enthusiasm and make a reference to some of the very elation to offer my very respectful important innovations that this Ministry has compliments to the working of the Ministry of made. In the first place, I am very much im- Information and Broadcasting, but I must pressed with the effort at State-Csmie confess to a sense of utter disappointment coordination in regard to the functioning of when I read over the Report that has been this Ministry, in channels of information and submitted to us by the Ministry. It seems to in broadcasting. Sir, I recall to myself that this me and I may be pardoned that this Report is Ministry has appointed a Committee for the more in the nature of a catalogue of attempts purpose of evolving institutional framework than a chronicle of achievements. I must and functional corrdina-tioh in respect of all confess that there have been certain the broadcasting services both by the Centre difficulties and certain hurdless in n.e path of and the State. I recall that it was some time the Ministry for realising some of the back, and I understand, Sir, that the objectives, some of the ideals—why—some Committee has not met and I do not know of the important decisions that the Ministry why that Committee has not met. Or may I and the Government had taken to be realised, know when that Committee will meet? Sir, is but I should like to say that this Ministry has it not supine for this Ministry to be very silent been rather very letriar-gic in regard to the and indifferent to evolving very definite implementation of some of the guide-lines and patterns of Centre-State coordination in the some of the developments that are inherent in matter of information and broadcasting? I the successful working of this Ministry. I have a sense of feeling that in the present would say that the Ministry of Information context of public debate on the possible and Broadcasting must combine a very relations and the evolution of a pattern of such specialised means of both. I think you will relations between the Centre and the State, pardon me and the House also will pardon nie this aspect of information and broadcasting when I say that in this Ministry the cannot be overlooked. I therefore plead very information is not broadcast and the earnestly with the Minister that early steps broadcasting does not contain informa tioVi. should be taken in order to make that Com- Now, Sir, I should have thought that a very mittee function and that ComnVttee should purposeful Ministry like the Ministry of .go into all chords of involvement both of the Information and Broadcasting must be such Centre and the State in regard to information that the information must certainly have not and broadcasting. There are very many only content, not only context, not only vulnerable points in tfie relationship between compass, but much more so, the information the Centre and the State in the field of that the Government is supplying to the vast. broadcasting. There has been an attempt—and millions of our people must nearly be very I do not blame any particular State but that is educative and very rarely interpretative. the general tendenp}^ on the part of the State Whenever there is a broadcasting effort it services of broadcasting—to more and more must be packed with such volume, weight and concentrate and overvV1 -mingly pinpoint the value of information that people will not only State's euJea-ours and the State's incidents have the entertainment aspect of broadcasting, rather than those of a national character. And but also the educative effect of such a on some occasions the feeble attempt on the broadcast. My first submission, therefore, oh part of the Central broadcasting at giving and the working of the Ministry of Information projecting the State's attempts and and Broadcasting is that it has failed in both achievements also give a sense of frustration. information and broadcasting. I feel that there Therefore I plead very earnesly with the hon. have been certain attempts and very notable Minister that they would make a attempts that this Ministry 207 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Informa- 208 tion and Broadcasting [Shri T. Changalvaroyan] very early attempt to convene this Committee on they must introduce certain really emotional Centre-State coordination in the matter of aspects in regard to their method of information and broadcasting. broadcasting and information? I must confess, Sir, that theie has not been that tinge of Sir, I am also pleased with the effort of this emotionalism which is the bed-rock of our Ministry in regard to the way in which one of national integration for our listeners to be toiJ the most fundamental aspects of our national that our country is united in history, that our endeavour and life, namely, with regard to country is united m geography, that it is united implementing fostering the forces of national in progress, united in everything that is integration, has been handled. Sir, there cannot glorious and great in our national life. I feel, be any argument on this question that if there Sir, that there is some lack of that emotional is any powerful medium for the purpose of touch in the way of implementing the grand bindmg all the chords of our nationanl life and concept of th» multi-media publicity scheme all sections of our people into one indissoluble that Ihw Ministry has been entrusted with. I and indestructible bond of national fellowship hope and trust that sooner perhaps than we and fraternity, I submit that it is the Ministry of wish they will undertake a very serious Information and Broadcasting. There canViot attempt in trying to fc-augurate this emotional be a greater bond, and there cannot be a greater mass multimedia publicity scheme. fellowship. Therefore this certainiy evolves from the question as to what are the guidelines along with which this Ministry of Information Sir, the next point that rather impress me and Broadcasting can play its role for the very much about the working of this Ministry purpose of augmenting the forces of national of Information and Broadcasting is with int^gra-ration. Sir, one* aspect suggees'ed regard to its service for the youth. I must very $ome time earlier was that a multimedia humbly and respectfully offer my publicity scheme ought to be considered by the congratulations to nvy steemed friend, Mr. Ministry. But I am sorry to state that no effort Gujral, when he was in charge of the Ministry has been made or even attempted to be made for having inaugurate the Youth Services in with regard to how to implement that multi- the Information and Broadcasting Ministry media publicity scheme. It is one of the particularly, in the All India Radio. important considerations that the National Integration Council had suggested. And at that Sir, I have listened just for the purpose of time the Minister of Information arid understanding what is the scope of this Youth Broadcasting had taken rather seriously to the Service as a concept. It is laudable as a suggestion of the National Integration Council. scheme. But the way it has been implemented And there was even some feeble attemct at rather disappoints me. There has always been, inaugurating such a multi-media publicity Mr. Vice-Chairman, an attempt to broadcast to scheme. But I do not find in this Heport, the youth but not a broadcast by the youth. I voluminous as it is, any references to the hope there is this difference between on inauguration and much less the implementation attempt to broadcast to the youth and a of the multi-media publicity scheme. Apart broadcast by the youth. from that, Mr. Vice-Chairman, may I very respectifully suggest to the Ministry that in the Sir, our country today, particularly the matter of improving and integrating: some of young India, is pulsating with new impulse, the very great forces and very valuable forcss with View ideas and new aspirations, and new of national integration of our country, visions and new-effort, and .unless we are able to galvanise them and channelise them into proper, purposeful expression of their .209 i>iscussion n« nmrking [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry oflnfonma- 210 tion and Broadcasting own emotion and ideas, I am afraid, Sir, the India is now. Therefore, that has to be a real great ranaissaYice of the youth movement in programmatic effort with regard t0 our country will be completely with out a broadcasting to the college students. With direction and without guidance. I appeal to the regard to broadcasting to the college, students, Minister for his kind consideration that ithe I am sure this suggestion, most respectfully Youth Services programme of the AH India made, will be kindly taken into account Radio should not be merely broadcast to the youth but it must be broadcast by the youth so Sir, I come next to the children's proramme. that some of us who have grown old or who I am amased, Viot that. I recall my childhood are growing old will have the supreme days because in my childhood days there was satisfaction that there are generations Vet no radio and broadcasting, but I amazed to coming behind Us who will take up the reins of find that it is totally irrelevant in the context the progress and we can close our eyes with the of children's psychology and children's life. I supreme faith that after us and behind us there have asked my granddaughter to go and listen are very good persons to take care of our to the radio when the children's programme is country. I hope, Sir, that this very fine appeal there, and my granddaughter told me that of mine will not be ignored, and I am sure we there was no use in listening to the children's shall very soon hear the broadcast by the programme as there was neither a programme youth, not so much as broacast to the youth. nor a programme for children. Sir, this is the judgement of my grand daughter. Sir, with regard to the Youth Services, I may also make a very respectful suggestion, SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA (Wes Bengal): particularly with regard to broadcasting to the ut did she ask the grandfather to go and college students. Sir, I have had very intimate listen? contact with college and University students in my State. I have been asking them as to SHRI T. CHENGALVAROYAN: If she how they ™e-lish these broadcasts and they has asked me, I would have requested the say with a certain amount of indignation that it Minister to have a programme for is an extended class-room lecture which they grandfathers including my good friend, Mr. do not relish. We know how our students Bhupesh Gupta. relish their class-room lectures. If the SHRI LOKANATH MISRA; He is not broadcast also is by the same lecturer who lec- even a father. How can he be a grandfather? tures in the class-room, the student will not listen to it. 1, therefore, request the Minister to SHRI : This i? s very consider a suitable modification of the serious charge against Mr. Bhupesh Gupta. programmati: effort of broadcasting to the coller.e students in such a way that it will SHRI BHUPES1H GUPTA; I am a long really serve the purpose for which such way off to catch up with him broadcasting is done. I have here to say a word about SHRI T: CHENGALVAROYAN: Mr. broadcasting to the University students. I think Bhupesh Gupta has many childien, the there must be some defect in drawing up the children of the soil. programme. There is "no use, Mr. Vice- Chairman, to have the same subjects that are So, so far as the children's programme is taught in the class. The college Cedents must concernedj it should ba more psychologically have some extra-curricular knowledge. They adjusted to the children. I do not know what must know what the world is. They must th-2 experts feel in this matter. But children's know what psychology has to be understood before a programme is given to them. I hope the boadcasiing system in the country will certaily take into consi- 211 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry ,of Injorma- 212 cioTi and Broadcasting [Shri T. Changalvaroyan] anything—we value many things in deration this very important aspect of our democracy and freedom—we value children's psychology and draw up the freedom of the press so much and programmes suitably. so fully that we will be very much loathe to countenance any attempt ai There is another aspect which I must refer strangulation of the press. to and that is with reference to the external My very good friend, Mr. Advani, was speaking publicity. Sir, in this House and on the question of advertisements. I know there elsewhere, we have had always a feeling is a lot of patronage behind advertisements. I that our publicity abroad is rather not also know there is a lot of patronage in the dis- adequate and it is not equal to the publicity, tribution of newsprint. Sir, the press in India is the tone aVid the tenor and the twist that the.noblest, press in the world. The press in other nations give for their respective coun- India has discharged not only during the tries. We have had occasions the gruesome period of our struggle for freedom, but debate on foreign affairs to mention this even afterwards it has played the -most notable remorseful lack of sufficient foreign part and a historic role in our country. Even publicity. Sir, unfortunately this question after we ' have won freedom the press in our of foreign publicity is between two country is so laudable, so powerful and so Ministries, the Ministry of Information and objec. tive that everyone of us must feel that we roadcasting and the Ministry of External are the guardians of the press. Therefore, I Affairs. Before we can attempt any co-ordina- would appeal to the Ministry concerned, tion elsewhere, may not these two in the matter of treatment of the press let the Ministries co-ordinate in this field of external Press Council's decisions prevail. It is not for publicity? The radio broadcasts to other nothing that we have instituted the Press nations must be of such vibrant and manly Council. The Press Council is an autonomous ovei tones that every nation must feel body trying to regulate the conduct and the that India really speaks. But what do we concept of the press in our country, and find? The way in which the programme is Government's interference seems to be very drafted, the way in which the draft is put up, I much in regard to the working of the Press feel, Sir, that we cannot at all catch the great Council. I should very respectfully submit that momentum which other countries have the Press Council's decisions must be allowed to got in their broadcasts for external run, the Press Council's writ must be allowed to consumption. I am sure, Sir, that we have enough material, and our country can project run without any interference on the part of most proudly and most truly aVid most the Government. One-word more and I have done. And that is rather analogous or wholly what all we have done and what all we are doing. But I am afraid that we have not corollary to my submission with regard yet risen high to the occasion. I am sure it is to the treatment of the press There not yet late for the Ministry to revise its is this question of the Press Trust of standard and try to reorient its effort in the India and there has been an attempt some time field of external publicity. back, very early, ten or fifteen years back, that this Press Trust of India must be made into a Sir, there is another aspect that strikes me as corporation. That was at that time and in that very important and that is the question of the context when there was some connection or press under this Ministry. The press should not partnership with a foreig nnews agency. But be pressed too much by this Ministry. 1 have a that cry, if I may say so with great respect, of feeling, Sir, that there is a growing intensity making the Press Trust of India into a both in volume and weight; there seems to be a corporation, an autonomous cor- sign of an attempt to strangulate the free press of our country. Sir, if ever we value 213 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry of Informa- 214 twn and Broadcast;)';;

poration, has become irrelevant and totally out With these words I am mak'ng my of context in the present time... submission that on the whole the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting has done a SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Why? pretty good job.

SHRI T. CHENG ALVAROY AN:., for THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI this reason that we wanted the Press Trust of RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): I have got a long list of Members who would like to India to be a corporation at that time because r there was a foreign connection and participate in the debate. Therefore, I w ould collaboration and there v/ere certain request honourable Members to confine their guidelines how the Press Trust of India should remarks to fifteen minutes each. Now Mr. be con. stituted, how it should function, and so Krishan Kant. on... SHRI LOKANATH MISRA (Or ssa): Mr. Vice-Chairman, I think it would be better if THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI you will kindly give chance to Members RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): The party-wise rather tha make a long list of honourable Member would please try to n Members; otherwise, no purpose will be conclude now. served. SHRI T. CHENGALVARYAN. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI Therefore, I will very respectfully plead that RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): I have got a this question of the Press Trust of India being long list of Members. What I will do now is I made into a corporation may be again referred, will call two from the Opposition and then if necessary, to the Press Council and its from the Congress side. "Now I have already suggestions obtained and they will be of gTeat called two from the Opposition, so I am call- help. ing from the Congress side. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SHRI KRISHAN KANT (Haryana): Sir, RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): Please wind Mr. Lokanath Misra does not want me to up now. speak suppose. SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: No,- no. I SHRI T. CHENGALVAROYAN: I am want you to speak. Let there be a purposeful winding up very quickly and very briefly. I have just one submission and that is there has debate. Let there not be any hustling. been a very longstanding debate and SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: There should be discussion in his country that All-India Radio a purposeful debate. And the purpose will be must very soon become a statutory corporation. I am not going to raise a injected when my friend, Mr. Lokanath Misra, controversial question. But I should add my speaks. respectful weight and support to the view that SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Sir, I am glad it is high time that AU.India Radio was made a that today I am speaking v you are in the satutory corporation under Parliamentary Chair as Vice-Chaii for the first time. control for the very simple reason that the (Interrupt makes a befitting personally. Government must be above all reproach and in THE VICE-CHAIRMAN the expanding momentum of new dispensation RAJENDRA PRATAP S"NHA of constitutional advance and progress let you. there be no apprehension or misapprehension 1 P.M. in any quarter that this is a part and limb of the bureaucracy. It must be a legacy of the entire SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Mr. Vice- people. Chairman, today we are debating a very important issue. I am glad that Shri Chengalvaroyan has paid tributes 215 Discussion on working [RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry oj Injorma- 216 tton and Broadcasting [Shri Krishan Kantj to the working of the Ministry. While paying tributes he said certain syllabus, media, courses and classes can be things with which I may not agree. But I prescribed. The basic question, therefore, is: would like to bring to the notice of this Are we clear about the objectives? If we are House that when we are discussing this clear, then different things can be thought of. question of mass media, we must realise that In this country, many people are not clear this mass media is the product of the growth of the objectives and at the same time they go of science and technology the world over. on criticising the government and making Though it is as a result of growth of science suggestions as if they are clear of the and technology, it is a process in itself which objectives. When we have decided about the grows with the growth of science and social objective we want to achieve, these vari- technology and it is a process which ous media have to fall in line with that changes when social changes come about. objective. They say that All India Radio and It is not merely industrial change, not merely information services are educational agricultural change, but the structural change me'dia. Education for what? I hope in the society. When the process grows government will say that it is for creating a itself, it grows along with the social structure, socialist society in this country. If it i« for the industrial structure and the agricultural creating a socialist society, I hope all the sector. That is why it is very important programmes we have either in the All India today. When we discuss it, we have to Radio or Television or press media discuss it in the context of Its overall inmpact should dovetail to that basic objective. My and not in any laissez-faire way in which we complaint against the government is that the think in a feudal society or a capitalist society. department is still run at the. lower levels by We cannot afford to think in that manner. some of the bureaucrats. I do not have any This should affect the thinking of the complaint against the retiring Director- people, their way of life, the social structure. General. I think he has done a good job. When we discuss it—either All India Radio But the basic approach still continues to be or press media—we must discuss it and find bureaucratic. Some change has to take place out whether jt has fulfilled the objectives or in the press, in the information media and in not. Before saying whether it fulfils the the All India Radio. objectives or not, we should know what are the objectives. Unless we are clear of our Shri Advani referred to an article by Shri objectives, we will not be able to fulfil the Chalapathi Rao. I think it needs careful and objectives. deep consideration. He has written some other Mr. Vice-Chairman, I am reminded of the things all of which require careful and deeper time when Banaras Hindu University was consideration. It is time that the information established. Dr. Bhagwan Das was there. Some policy is properly projected in terms of English man' came and stayed with him. Dr. socialist ideals to whichl the nation and our Bhagwan Das asked him: "We are in the course Party are committed. The ICS and the IAS of a great discussion for a number of days on officers may not be able to run this, because it the curricula, system, this study, that study, etc. is not running the administration, but it What is your opinion about it?" The English, represents the changing and emerging minds of man told Dr. Bhagwan Das: "It is very simple". India, the minds of the people. At the same "Why?" Dr. Bhagwan Das asked. Then the time, they must know the methods. Mr. English man told him: 'First You must decide Chengalvaro-yan referred to the Youth what type of citizens you want to produce." Programme. I discussed this question with a When we are clear about the citizens we want number of youths who are participating in the to have then the type of All-India Radio and the television programmes. I discussed this with 217 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry of hiforma- 218 V.on and Broadcasting them. There are brilliant youths and they may I also say that what Lala Lajpat Rai said produce good things, they produce good during the days of the freedom struggle? He literature. But I find that they represent the said that after independence the Marwaris are efferxescence, they represent the short- likely to capture the Press and use if for their comings of the present society, they represent economic struggle. the frustration and the dissatisfaction of the present society. It is not very clear how they SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: Hear, hear. are to mobilise the people and along with the SHRI KRISHAN KANT: That is what he present dissatisfaction, frustration and the said in 1925 or 1926 and that is what is effervescence, the direction must be clear and exactly happening after independence. if the direction is clear, all these frustration, dissatisfactions, and the offerve. scence, can be directed to certain channels to achieve their objectives. Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, about the All-India Radio, I would say that you must decentralise SHRI KRISHAN KANT: it and you must reorganise it and give more Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I would say that powers and bring in new talents so that they they were seers at that time and they knew can project the emerging India, the India that how India was growing, because Lajpat Raf is coming up, so that a new India can be born. wag himself on the Board of Trustees of the "Hindustan Times" and" he knew how things Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, after saying that, ware going and how the British Raj changed now I would liKe to say that the Press during the last period of his life. A letter to Information Bureau, the All-India Radio, etc. Shri Birla was written by Lajpat Rai. I know must have a new look to project the rfew much more about Lala Lajpat Rai tha he IncTIa""Ehis is growing, that is coming up. n knows. My friend, Shri Advani, sa'd so" many things. I have complained fh'at the All-India Radio, as SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Even before T said, is very'much obsessed with the independence, the Birlas made the freedom criticisms of the Opposition. struggle a thriving business for their family. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Now, Sir, I come SHRI KRISHATTKANT: Let me say that. to another point. The Press media, the Press in You oJSy*"1Kve different thinking on that. It India, they have to play a different role. Mr. Chengalvaroyan said that it Is very objective. does not project the way the wind is blowing. See how it was projecting the mid-term elec- If it was objective, how all its predictions, how tion. It was not doing it properly. I learnt from its analyses, during the time of the mid.1erm many of the bulletins that Mr. K. K. Birla was elections failed? It ia not objective and it looks winning. But I found that he lost. What I mean like that through coloured glasses, the to say is that neither the Press nor the All- coloured glasses of the ^businessmen, the India Radio nor the television was in touch coloured glasses of the big business houses, with the growing and emerging things. which control the Press and that is where it is necessary to see that the Government acts. Sir, Mr. Chengalvaroyan paid a great tribute They are not paying any attention to the to the Indian Press saying that it ig objective recommendation of the Press Commission on and is laudable and that it took part in the the PTI. It has not been implemented. Now freedom struggle. I do agree that in the free- fifteen years have passed. Why dom struggle they also took part. But, 219 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry oj hiforma- 220 Hon and Broadcasting

[Shri Krishan Kant] have they not heart of India, the upsurge in India. My implemented? May I know whether the Mend said so many things. Government ever implemented it. Fifteel years have passed and something should be done It has been said by the Monopolies Inquiry lediafcry, May I hope that the Minister, while Committee: replying, will say that the recommendation of "It has been said that connection of big ihe Press Commission on the PTI will be business with the Press has an unhealthy accepted immediately? Mr. Vice-Chairman, influence on society inasmuch as it obstructs Sir, this is what Mahalanobis Ccrmnittee said the free information of public opinion and in 1964: moulds people's mind in a manner unduly "Economic power is exercised not only favourable to the selfish interests of through control, over production, "business-men. investment, employment, purchases, sales "We find it to be true that an appreciable and prices but also through control over section of the press is either owned or mass media of communication. Of these, controlled by persons or corporations who newspapers are the -most important and are themselves big business, or closely con- constitute a powerful ancillary to sectoral nected wih big business." an

not trying to attack monopoly in the area of SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Yci give him a the Press? In our Constitution, the freedom of little more time so that he can also say the Press is not mentioned there; it is freedom something. You have not said about P.T.I. of expression. Because of that the Supreme THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI Court—Mr. Subba Rao—said that it has RAJENDRA PRATAp SINHA); He has become a property. already said about it. Sir, in the morning a question was asked SHRI KRISHAN KANT: I want to whether the Minister will see that the mention two more points. The one is about Governmeni; is going io bring forward a new the All India Radio and the present situation Constitution (Amendment) Bill, which will which is prevailing in our country. I know it become Constitution (Amendment) Bill No. has done good work, but in ord:r to meet the 2fi, so that Article 19 is amended and the new challenge of advertisement, like that of freedom of the Press is retained. America and China, we must have powerful THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI transmitters in the areas which could affect RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA); May the South-East Asia. There should be a powerful transmitter in Andaman and I request you to wind up now? Ladakh so tha (.the propoganda of both America and China can be met. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Just a few Secondly, I would like the hon. Minister to say minutes more, Sir. something on the following. The television May I request the hon. Minister to let me shown in Lahore is visible in Amritsar, know whether they have considered this Jullundur and in other cities of Punjab. I question and when the Government is going would like to know whether our Government to bring the whole question about it? wili take immediate steps' to see that the propjanda by Pakistan is immediately met by Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, these people talk installing and extending Delhi television of free competition. How can there be free to'the areas of Punjab and Haryana. These competition when there is economic are two points. I will make one more point and inequality? When there is economic then I will sit down. We have done good inequality, there cannot «be free competition. work about Bangla Desh but there should We want economic equality, we want equality be massive propoganda, forceful propoganda, in dissemination of ideas, disemina-tion of ther; should be wall posters etc. which expression, and that cannot bo there as long as should tell the people of India as to what there are weak papers and strong papers. This is the stage, what is the Bangla Desh fight, was recommended by the Press Commission. what we should do. I think the Government This was recommended... has lacked'm this thing. May I request th. hon. Minister to do something for mass' THE VICE-CHAIRMAN' (SHRI aria* massive visual propoganda by HAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): I think the producing documentaries. . . Member of the Ruling Party has set an example. I hope you will now conclude. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI RAJENDRA pRATAP SINHA): Now, please SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Sir, you gave conclude. Mr. Sardesai. half an hour to both of them. SHRI S. G. SARDESAI (Maharashtra): Mr. Vice-Chairman, among the mass media, I THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI would like to refer mainly to what is called the RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): No, no. This Indian newspaper indsutry, our daily is not fair. You must conclude now. press

223 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] 0/ Ministry 0/ Informa- 224 tion and Broadcasting Lanri fc>. U. baraesaij press in India, much less of a socialis-tically and the news agencies. I think certain very oriented press "Is either moonshine or sheer basic facts or aspects must be borne in mind if hypocrisly. Now what is the consequance of this question is to be frontally tackled. this state of affairs? First and foremost, the consequence is the casualty of truth itself The first thing that I would like to state is for which the press ought to stand. Year that the Ruling Party of our country and not after year, decade after decade, all of us know only the Ruling Party but by a Resolution, the that the productivity of the Indian worker Parliament itself is committed to the is growing, the prices are growing, the cost achievement of socialism in this country. In of living is rising, the real wages are falling and every election, the largest number of voters yet whenever our worker gets up and raises vote for parties which claim to be socialist or the question of wages, "this dominant ar.. actually for socialism. The second thing I monopolist press always raise the howl would like to state is that as early as in 1954 s about: the price spiral bogey, danger of in- our Press Commission, an official flation, etc. It is the same owners who Commission, a very high-powered are carrying on all the profiteering in this Commission, warned the Government and the country and the moment the worker raises this country against the growing power of private question, the danger of inflation is raised. monopoly in the.Indian press and made strong This is the kind of reporting or comment recommendations for taking action agains? it which We have. About land reforms and for controlling it. everybody talks of it. Whenever irr this The third thing, and that in a sense is more country the peasantry organised a movement important, is that these recommendations of for putting ceiling on land for rent the Press Commission were made 17 years control, for all these kinds of things, ago. Dispite them, during this period the absolutely the bogey of red ruin is raised. private monopoly in the Indian press has Only last year when proposals for bank developed into an octopus which nationalisation and the absolition of Privy strangulates—rather absolutely vitiates and Purses and the Privileges of the Princes came poisons—the press. This has become a great forth, almost the entire monopoly press danger and has narmed the democratic ran them down and when the Prime Minister education of our people. The press is a very put forward these proposals, immediately powerful nedium. To-day I understand that jf a campaign was started agains her and what a total circulation of daily newspapers of 78 is more reprehensible, even provocative lakhs, 70 per cent, or 55 lakhs are accounted cartoons, not showing elementary respect to for by chain papers and group papers which women, which is our tradition, came are dominatly controlled or owned by some of out, trampling all our values under the the biggest industrialists in this country. foot. Another instance is there. We have not Everybody knows who these industrialists are only a tirade, it is a slander campaign of the Goenkas, the Birlas, the Tatas, the Jains falsehood agains the Soviet Union and against and others, though I should also add to this the the Socialist countries which have all these control of the Statesman, the Amrita Bazaar years, helped us to build up our strategic Patrika, the Hindu and a few others. I am industries, our basic industries, our armament stating these at the very outset because unless industries, etc. There is a constant slander this shocking reality, and I would go further, a campaign against these countries which very reprehensivie reality is absolutely and is going on while thera is a panegeric frontally posed and" is boldly faced, any talk sychopantic attitude to towards the dollar, of a democratic towards the yen and towards the Pound, the owners" 225 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry of lnjorma- 226 Hon and Broadcasting of which have always tried to strangle our it owners are utterly hostile to the trade independent economic development. They are union movement in the press industry and I always praised to th skies. I was very much think they are hostile as much for political surprised about a p.ess writing on the recent reasons as for economic reasons. And approach betwe n President Nixon and China what is the position? Our Young Even on a move iike this which is obviously journalists, the Working Journalists directed against Bangla Desh, obviously Federation., these Young men ;-.-'e the directed against India, I can point out any res! patriots. They want the proper news to be number of articles saying that it is India's fault reported, they want proper comments to be that Nixon and China are coming together, r.ported in the press and whenever they that somehow or the other India must make up attemtp to do that, the press barons invariably with Nixon and China. Ii is a patriotic press or try to victimise them and throw them a free press or a democratic press or an out of work. Strikes are taking place and independent press when our enemies are serious cases of victimisation have come to coming together to attack us on such an light, victimisation of Vats and Pad- ocacsion to say: Make up with them and it is manabhan. Anyone who knows anything India's fault that these countries are going about thj press industry will know about the against us'. These revolting kinds of things are harassment and victimisation of these people. taking place. I want to repeat here that the victimisation is not because of the economic demands that they put forward but it is because these working journalists are true patriots and they want I can give a small instance also, i The to go forward towards socialism. They want Takru Commission is going on about the oil to use the press f°r this purpose and the scandals in this country and the PTI does not monopolists do not want that. That is why even give a coverage. What is the they are being victimised. I think the whole news agency for? Why does it not cover it? House should pay a tribute to the working This is what is happening. Some cf the j journalists for the glorious battla they are new3 agencies, like the Samachar \ fighting It is they who are really fighting for Bharati and Hindustan Samachar I I the freedom of the press and carrying forward very often see because they report \ about the ideas which we preach. I also want to us and I would say that th:y are worse. They point out something else that is happening. do not even iccept ; the elementary secular Some of our biggest press barons are being ideals of cur Secular State and become prose-culted on criminal charges. Criminal agents of Hindu or some other kind of prosecution is going on against Mr. commu-nalism. This is the meaning of pri- Goenka; criminal prosecution is going on vate monopoly press. Unless we pose this against Mr. Jain the owner of Bennett question all talk of democracy and Coleman & Co. What is happening in the independence, leaving aside socialism, is Times of India? Ev r since, the days of absurd and has no meaning. I want also to Pandit this question of refer to the ati-tude of these press barons Times of India has been there. It is true they to the workers, to the working journalists have attempted to do something; I do not deny and press employees. Why? It is i that. To a certain extent what has been from the point of view of the fact that the attempted is to take out the control of the workers are workers, they must have a Times of India from the Jains and hand it over decent wage and proper working conditions to people who will run it properly. But even and also from another point of view that I today what is the position? The Chairman of want to refer to it. The entire monopolist the Board of Directors appointed by press and ' 931 U.S.—8.

227 Discission on working [ RAJYA SABHA] to Ministry of Informa- 228 tion and Broadcasting [Shri S. G. Sardesai]

the High Court was formerly a Legal \ Adviser facts are true, I understand the Speaker of the of the Jains. He did not inform the High Court , the Chairman of our House and that he was the legal Adviser to them. The the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court have.. court did not knjow that. The General SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: They form the Manager of the Times of India who has consistently stood firmly against all the Committee that makes the appointment. blackmailing and bullying of the Jains is being SHRI S. G. SARDESAI: ______resig bounded out. I know him personally and I ned because they do not want to un know what has been happening. They want to dertake this responsibility. Things throw him out because he can give the best have come to such a stage and you evidence to the Government against the Jains on the question of misappropriation. That is can understand how shocking the why they wanted to throw him out before the state of affairs must be. case is actually taken at by court of law. The President of the Indian Press Employees' I would be asked what should be done and Association has written to the Prime Minister must be done. I will not go into the details. about these matters and I would like

231 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA] to Ministry of Injorma- 232 Hon and Broadcasting

[Shri Lokanath Misra] less he is either a Cong-I or Mr. Bhupesh ed, and even they are politically together? Gupta's followers. The impression is, what is SHRI BUPESH GUPTA: This is not true. proper is not being done. I will give examples Everybody knows how Shrimati Tarkeshwari of how it is not being properly done. I come was featured there with photographs also. to the Press because the honourable speaker before me was waxing eloquent about what a SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: They have Press should be. If I refer him to countries put forth their point of view. They should which have adopted the ideology to which he allow me. belongs.. . SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, why ] did SHRI S. G. SARDESAI: You speak about he mention it? our newspapers in India. We are running SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Sir, I have quite a few. I am not responsible for any no difficulty in replying, if you give 20 or 15 papers except those which my party runs. My minutes more. constituency is here in India. My consti- tuency is not outside. I was elected by the THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI Maharashtra Legislature. RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): No arguments, no interruptions. SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: If Mr. Sardesai publishes a paper which is in line SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Do not with what is published in Soviet Russia, it mention me. will go only into the waste paper basket. Nobody would look at it. SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I might be mentioning him. He might mention me in his SHRI S. G. SARDESAI: It has got more speech. I know the subject and the agenda circulation than your paper. probably much more than Mr. Sardesai has know. Mr. Sardesai has a brief prepared as to SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I will come the suspension of one or two employees here to it. and there and therefore he made a big issue of SHRI S. G. SARDESAI: Speak about our it saying that the entire PTI should be brought papers. to book, and other monopolies also I should be brought to book, and I am going to SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I am disprove whatever he has speaking of paper which is there but which I said. might not belong to India. That is what I am speaking about. Sir, there are so many SHRI S. G. SARDESAI: Do not talk for interruptions that I go off the track very often. the monopolies. When he was indicating about the monopoly SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I am not Press, it is a bogey. The monopoly Press has speaking for the monopolies. I throw a been a slogan and it would go on as a slogan. challenge to you. There is an all-out attempt now to demoralise the Press in India. I would throw a challenge The Press in India has been doing a to Mr. Sardesai and Mr. Bhupesh Gupta marvellous job so far as objectivity is whether it is not a fact that 80 per cent of concerned. If it is not objective, probably it is Parliamentary coverage either goes to their leaning on the other side. I would accuse it of party or to the Congress-I, which hold on to leaning on the other side, on the so-called one and the same ideology so far as the pseudo-socialists because SO per cent of the economic problems and the social problems coverage of Parliament is taken away by the of the country are concern- pseudo-socialists in this country. If you see the day-to-day coverage of Parliament in the different 233 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry of Informa- 234 tion and Brocdcasting newspapers by the so-called monopoly It is only the wrong system of voting in this newspapers, they cover 80 per cent of country that has given the Congress (R) a their space with speeches, with all massive mandate. They got 380 seats in the humbugs, by the pseudo-socialists. But all iast elections. This is all because the election the same they are still demoralised because system is a distorted one and, therefore, they they want to go on demoralising them. That is can claim that they have 380 Members in the the Communists' tactics, as I said, at Lok Sabha. It is distorted and that is the demoralising them and getting whatever is reason why with 380 Membership, they claim possible put of it. Sir, they call Indian papers only 42 per cent, voting. as "monopolies" when their circulations is hardly 50,000. Even the highest SHRI BIPINPAL DAS (Assam). That circulated paper must have a circulation means you have faith in the Election of 50,000. What would you call "The Dai]y Commission. Mirror" of England, which has a population of SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I will speak about SJ crores, with a circulation of 50 lakhs? about it on another occasion. But I have faith Even with 5 million copies nobody calls it a in my own party. I do not move on from seat monopoly paper. to seat nearer the Treasury Benches like my SHRI S. G. SARDESAI: It is. hon'ble friend. At least I have that conviction. SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: The Daily Mirror would not care a fig for what Mr. Sardesai calls a "monopoly" in India. I have not come across anybody in Great Britain who calls it monopoly unless it is some feeble voice from Assam's Gauhati or the Maharashtra's C.P.I. Headquarters. Nobody calls it monopoly to demoralise it. As I said, if somebody is propagating a Sir, the way things go on in India is popular issue the readership must pick it up. something unique. There is a particular Why does it not pick up? In case of these section in the country which tries to socialist papers there must be something wrong about it. Why do they not compete demoralise everybody by shouting certain with the other papers which are so-called slogans, and if somebody becomes a prey, monopolist, papers in the country? There then only God save him. There have been must be some defect. Let them search out many victims of these scandalous attacks. their own defect rather than go on attacking Now, probaly, the P.T.L is going to be one everybody. Becase of jealousy they cannot of them. I would come to that later. tolerate the other groups. Sir, India is a free country. We have a free So far as the policy of the Government society. And in this free society what is the towards newspapers is concerned, that is acceptability of the Communist Party? Now another malaise. So far as the Press the Congi ideology, which speaks of a Information Bureau is concerned they are massive mandate, if they have majority sup- doing the greatest injustice to the small port, why can they not start their own newspapers. The people who talk so loudly newspapers and take away the entire about newspaper monopolies, I was shocked, readership in the country? Do they have that never uttered a word about these small courage? Patriot started with Russian money newspapers. and with Russian machinery. Has it proved success? No, because people do not accept it. The PIB ignores the small news-i papers so far as two things are con-1 cerned. When delegations are sent 235 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry of Injorma- 236 lion and Broadcasting [Shri Lokanath Misra] abroad along with VVIPs. the small are possessing, they could get a loan, because papers are not included. Secondly, their construction would, be much more than even for the official briefing, the Rs. 55 lakhs—their entire construction has language newspaper representatives cost them probably rupees one crore and 35 are never invited. Why is it so; lakhs or 86 lakhs or something like that. And Does the Government feel that only who were in charge of this construction? Two seven newspapers in the country eminent persons, one was Mr. Uma Shanker would convey their message to the Dikshit and the other was probably an ex- entire population of more than 50 Chief Justice or an ex-High Court Judge. If crores? They should include the these were the people who were in charge of smaller newspapers and the construction.... the language newspapers when the PIB SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, I think my briefing is done. If they do that hereafter, friend should have carefully read the they would be probably doing a great justice typescript brief that the PTI management has to the people of India because the people of prepared. I have read it carefully. I can India would be receiving the news which is correct him. meant for them. SHRI M. S. GURUPADASWAMY (Mysore); You have also been briefed? Sir, the other thing that I wanted to mention is about the PTI. The SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: No, I only saw PTI has been made a target of attack. it. There are some people here who feel (Interruptions) that like "Tass" in the USSR, we must have only one agency fully con SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Therefore, trolled by the Government so that no Sir, since there are eminent persons thing but what they say goes into the responsible for the transaction and for the press. As I said, if this is the guide construction of this building, no aspersion line ...... should be cast on the PTI. And if any aspersion is cast, it would be cast on Mr. Uma SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA:It will be a Shanker Dikshit and the ex-judge. Therefore, this loan of Rs. 55 lakh should not be made corporation. You can also be a member in s an instrument or lever in order to pressurise that. the Government to bring the PTI into the fold of the Government to make it another Tass". SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: That is what is in the back of their mind. Now they are not SHRI S. G. SARDESAI: The enquiry claiming that the entire distance should be committee is there already. covered. They only want t0 go half way and SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I shall now make it a corporation. Thereafter, they would come to All India Radio. I hope Mr. Bhupesh again agitate and make it a Government Gupta would agree with me on many things corporation. Why should they have this Rs. 55 regarding All India Radio. lakhs at the back of it? After the nationali- sation of banks, if anybody has to get money SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, I request in this country, where would he apply for it? through you that the PTI management slips Would he go and apply to Nagarwala to get may be passed on to me. Rs. 55 !akhs? Is that what is meant by Mr. SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Sir, I Bhupesh Gupta and Mr. Sardesai? They will congratulate the hon. Minister on one thing. have to go and approach some legal She is otherwise a sister to me. institutions in the country to get some money. Therefore, the PTI thought that w:t>i *h? ^sets- they

237 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry oj Informa- 238 tion and Broadcastina SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: What did he the very next day. Therefore, some says—she is otherwise a sister to me? What amount of protection must be given a brother! to their services. The Government talks so loudly about socialism, about SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Sir, the downtrodden, about everything. politically I do not feel the way Mr. Bhupesh It talks so loudly when it is a matter Gupta feel towards them. I believe in s of other employers and all these freedom of expression. words are flung at them. But when And when I speak against the Government I it comes to the Government itself as mean to speak against her. Not that because an employer, it is stingy about it as we are brothers and sisters we should not say the Russian rulers. Therefore. I anything against them. I have to say whatever would plead, through you, Sir, that I feel like saying against her Ministry for the honouable Minister would please which she is responsible. I congratulate her on look into this particular aspect of the one point. She has at least taken a decision in thing. Let there be some protection regard to the fees of the artistes so far as the given to those who are now complete music programmes of All-India Radio are ly, what should I say, casual ______concerned. I do not know about other artistes. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI The Artistes AssociatioYis of Delhi conveyed RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): You may this good news that their fees has been wind up now. enhanced. It has not gone up sufficiently. I would not agree that it has gone up SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I need only sufficiently. But 1 nm happy that it has been five minutes. There are so many enhanced after twenty years of struggle. interruptions. Ultimately they have got something. I hope their case would be looked into with greater Sixty per cent of the time of All-India sympathy now that a lady Minister is there in Radio is covered by music, by musical charge of it. programmes. That I appreciate. But the standard of the programmes must also go up. I SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: You mean a am glad that of late there has been a tendency lady is usually softer? to appreciate classical music more than the SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Probably Mr. so-called pop music. Pop music provides Advani mentioned about staff artistes. All and intellectual satisfaction to a certain section of sundry come under the category of Staff the society. The youngsters an be satisfied out artistes, from the Chief Music Adviser—pro- of it. There is almost an emotional crisis bably his designation is bad— of All-India among the young people.... Radio down to the peon who is not a SHRI A. D. MANI (Madhya Pradesh): permanent employee; everybody is a staff You want a crisis like that? artiste. Not that there is a particular category of musicians belonging to the category of staff SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Nc, no. artistes. They have absolutely no protection of Kindly listen to me. You are only taking their jobs. They are worse than slaves. T have things out of context and fitting them into talked to them. They do not have the courage your own ideas... , to come out openly and sav or put forward THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI their demands because they are worse than RAJENRA PRATAP SINHA): Do nr>t get slaves. They say if we were to say something, distracted, Mr. Lokanath Misva. our contract would be terminated the next month or the next week on, may be j SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: They are going through an emotional crisis. Therefore, something must be provided to them for their intellectual satisfaction and I am nappy that the Yuva I Vani programme has been started. I There also the standard must go up. 239 Discussion on wo: king [ RAJYA SABHA J of Ministry of Injorma- 240 tion and Broadcasting [Shri Lokanath Misra] You cannot pick anybody because he belongs SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: I will throw a to the Congress (R) party. In order to give a challenge. You and I stand in any music broadcast he must have some efficiency constituency and I will beat you. in the art. Therefore, there must also be some- SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: 1 do not thing of that kind, something which would be pleasant to the ear, which would be in tune. It have to take a challenge from somebody who should not be anything or by anybody whom does not have anything. you come across. The producers are the main plank in the matter of maintaining standards in the All India Radio. But producer after producer is retiring and their places are not SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: He is a filled up. ing and their places are not filled up. person who does not know how to behave and people who know about the job. There are so therefore he has to be told on his face many professional musicians in this country whatever he has to be told. and their services are not fully utilised by the All India Radio. I am very unhappy about it. There was another Shri O. P. Sabar- Previously there used to be durbars where the wal, IPA------musicians used to get patronage. Now they are not getting patronage. On the other hand, SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: All in the same Patriot is getting patronage. Yesterday there coterie. were two persons who broadcast probably in SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: He aiso the Topic of Today programme. One was Shri broadcast yesterday and they all belong to the Ganesh Shukla. He is an ex-Com-munist and same Communist group. They are getting a is probably Shri Bhupesh Gupta's contribution lot of favour from the information and to the Congress (R). broadcasting Minister. I do not know for SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: He is no what? They want committed men, they say. If longer in the Patriot. I know him. these people are the only committed people, I do not know. Are Communists alone SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Then he committed men in this country? Then what I must have rejoined the Communist Party. said in the beginning comes to be true.... SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: He is a very THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI able journalist and selection of such people is RAJENDRA PRATAP SINHA): You please good and useful. wind up. SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: It is these SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Only-two people.... (Interruption). I do not know more sentences. One is that there are two whether Shri Joachim Alva intends to recommendations by two committees both continue in this House as a nominated of which were set up by the present Member. Prime Minister, Shrimati Gandhi when she SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: You stand in any was the Broadcasting Minister. One was constituency. I will beat you down. the Chanda Committee which recommended SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: I have stood in that All India Radio should be converted into a a constituency. Shri Alva , has taken a Corporation. I am lending support to it. I am great favour from the Prime Minister in giving my emphatic support to it. The getting himself no- j minat.ed to this House. . .. other was the Khosla Committee of which I was also a member. We have recommended certain things. The government probably has not gone through this committee's report. I

.241 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] 0/ Ministry of Informa- 242 tion and Brouccasting wish that something is done in regard to this SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Yes, then reward report. Otherwise, it would not be worthwhile it with newsprint quota. Similarly, Sir, the for members to sit in committees and waste "Indian Express" and the "Times of India" their time and money. went to Ahme-dabad in an unauthorised, irregular* manner and the Government said in SHRI ARJUN ARORA (Uttar Pradesh): this House that no newsprint will be given to Mr. Vice-Chairman, 1 congratulate you on these papers for their Ahme-dabad edition. being in occupation of the Chair. ... [MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair] SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, this is flattery. Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, ------

SHRI ARJUN ARORA: The only reward I SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: Your two will get is two more minutes. minutes have gone now.

The press in this country is day by day SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Sir, I was last year becoming more and more monopolistic, in and I had to buy the though the government is committed to Ahmedabad editions of these papers and, curbing the growth of monopoly. surely, Sir, they were printed on newsprint. Either the Government has regularised them It appears, the more the Government gets and rewards them with newsprint or the committed, the more is the Government connives at their diversion of growth of monopoly. The re-4 P.M. newsprint meant for other papers which suit is that newspapers like means that for the other editions, these two "The Indian Express" and "The papers make exaggerated claims, the Times of India" are increasing not o'nly their Government accepts them, gives them the circulation, but also their editions. Sir, the newsprint on that basis and the result is that Government has repeatedly declared that it the newsprint is diverted to Ahmedabad. will not give newsprint for new editions of chain newspapers and newspaper groups. Sir, I particularly mentioned Ahmedabad, because before the advent cf these tw0 SHRI A. G. KULKARNI (Maharashtra): newspapers in Ahmedabad, Gujarat was a No. They have decided not to give to small little free from the grip of the monopoly newspapers. They will accommodate any Press. It was gripped, of course, by the textile amount of chain papers. magnates.

SHRI ARJUN ARORA: But somehow, Similarly, Sir, these newspapers are helped Sir, they continue to grow. The newspapers, by the Government in another manner. The "The Indian Express", brought an advertisements given to them are on the unauthorised edition from increase. The Government is committed to Madurai. helping the small newspapers. But, Sir, look at SHRI KRISHAN KANT: It was re- the Statement of Accounts of the Government. gularised. More and more money is being given to the monopoly Press every year though the space SHRI ARJUN ARORA: It was later that the Government gets in these monopoly regularised. You do something unauthorised papers is being reduced every year and they and, instead of being sent to prison, you later pay more per inch than they used to, the result get the thing authorised and regularised.... is that the monopoly Press is getting SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: And the strengthened. Government rewards it also. 243 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry of Informa- 244 Hon and Broadcasting Lbhri Arjun Arora] | ween being the Chief Minister of Mad Sir, the Government controls the Supply of ras and continuing as a Member of newsprint. It may not be •able to enforce the Parliament ...... Price Page Schedule. But it can certainly control the flow of newsprint. Sir, from the SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Or Prime latest figures available to me, the small Minister of India. newspapers in the country get about 15,810 tonnes of newsprint every year. The medium SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Or the Prime ones get 51,332 tonnes in a year; whereas the Minister of India. Now, Sir, we find him big newspapers get 1,14,538 tonnes of occasionally sipping coffee in the Central newsprint every year...... Hall. They said that he had a very difficult choice to make, fortunately, the electorate SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: That goes into spared him the trouble. black market.

SHRI ARJUN ARORA: That goes int0 Sir, the curb on monopoly press is not a black market, according tc Mr. Alva. And, of Communist suggestion, not even a Socialist course, all of it goes into polluting the minds idea. The character of newspaper of our people and preaching the doctrine of monopolies in this country is different from the capitalist order. other countries. In Britain, for example, you There is one very interesting thing have Press Lords. There is Lord Thompson: about all these newspapers. There is He is a Press baron; he is a TV baron; he is a a similarity in news and views. All radio baron. But he is not a jute baron. progressive news is curtailed. If in He does not run cotton mills. In this country, this House something is said by Mr. it is the jute barons, the cotton magnates, the Krishan Kant against Mr. Ram Nath steel plant owners and the like or the Goenka, it will be blacked out by all cement manufacturers and the like who have the big newspapers. And if on the captured the press and they use it for their own same occasion Mr. Mahavir Tyagi, for advantage. The need to curb the monopoly example, says something in praise of press in this country is much greater than in Mr. Ram Nath Goenka, the thing will other capitalist countries. In France and Japan appear in headlines...... the curbs have been applied. In France, Sir, it was done in 1954 and the law provided that AN HON. MEMBER: Why not Mohta? no person could be head of more than one daily newspaper, and a person would b the Chairman SHRI ARJUN ARORA; There is e or Managing Director of a newspaper only if a similarity of views and also simi he held major part of the capital. That is larity in making false claims as was demonstrated during the days when not very satisfactory but somewhat better election results were yet to come. than what prevails in this country. In Japan, Whether it was The Hindu of Madras, of course, things are even better and that is how the Statesman of Calcutta, the Indian Japan has a very developed press. Shares in Express of Delhi or the Times of India 75 out of 80 newspaper companies in Japan are of Bombay ------every-where all fore held either by the original promoters or by the cast the downfall of the Congress led employees. In this country, for example, by Mrs. Indira Gandhi...... Hindustan Times was promoted by Mr. Ma dan Mohan Malaviya and Lala La.ipat Rai, but MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please wind it is now being controlled by Mr. B. M. Birla up. and Mr. K. K. Birla. The original promoters, SHRI ARJUN ARORA: As a matter of fact, the original mie- one of the papers which is somehow considered very responsible said that Kamraj had to choose bet- i 245 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Injorma- 246 lion and Broadcasting sionaries are h'o more there. And, of course, unless the PTI converts' itself into a. employees owning a newspaper is something corporation, no loans should be given, but the unknown in this country. In Japan, in 33 Government of India gave it a loan of Rs. 55 important newspapers, employees and other lakhs for building a huge mansion and the LIC people connected with the papers hold 88 per advanced Rs. 25 lakhs, obviously with the app- cent of the shares with the result that although roval of the Government. With regard to PTI I some of the newspapers have a circulation of expect the Minister to explain why this sum of 60 lakhs, they have not passed into the hands Rs. 55 lakhs was given t'o the PTI in defiance of wealthy businessmen unconnected with the of the recommendation of the Press Com- press. Here, though the Government in season mission. Secondly, when was the first and out of season talks of curbing monopolies, instalment of repayment due? Was it received partbularly the press monopoly, the on schedule or has the PTI asked for an Government helps the monopolies. Take the additional loan on the plea that the building case of the 'Hindustan Times' It js building a costs have go.ie up? skyscraper 'on Bara-khamba Road or Curzon Road. SHRI T. CHENGALVAROYAN: My friend may als0 ask whether the Government SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Curzon Road. has taken a portion of that building for their SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Kasturba Gandhi own use. Road is the latest name. Th^y are building a skyscraper there. The LIC, obviously with the SHRP A. D. MANI: 40,000 sq. feet. approval of the Ministry of Finance made it an advance of Rs. 50 lakhs. How much of that SHRI ARJUN ARORA: I want to tell the building is to be used by the Hindustan Times Member that I know that the CBI wanted to and how much by the Birla Group of rent a portion of that building to be near the Companies who are running away from source of corruption in public life of this Calcutta? And there again the Government is country. The CBI will be repeatedly called obliging them; the so-called Industries House upon to investigate the affairs of the PTI. So owned by the Birlas has been bought by the the CBI wanted to rent a portion of that Ministry of Defence for Rs. 2 crores. It is a building and the PTI did not oblige. It decided fabulous sum. to keep the CBI away. It is not only the CBI which has been denied space in that building. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: They have Several newspaper organisations in the obliged the Government. country wanted to rent portions of that huge SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Sir, no review of building built mainly with Government money the press in India will be complete, or even but they were also denied accommodation. half complete, unless one refers to the PTI. As Instead, Banks and commercial houses are everyone knows. the Press Commission re- being given rented accommodation in that commended that the PTI be converted into a building. Apart from these Rs. 80 lakhs, the statutory corporation. The recommendation Government gives the PTI about Rs. 40 lakhs was given by Mr. Mani and others 16 or 17 as subsidy every year. years ago, and even during this session the Minister for Information and Broadcasting has SHRI A. D. MANI: Subsidy for what? told this House that the matter is under active consideration. Too much consideration! SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Subsidy for "Government is seized of it" as if the underplaying good news. The PTI undertook Government is seized with cholera! The Press certain obligations regarding, stationing of its Commission made a definite recommendation correspondents in foreign countries. There that again-

.247 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Injorma- 248 tion and Broadcasti'i j [Shri Arjun Arora] it has failed the Government. The PTI is not ment makes plans and changes them. Mr. K. fair to its employees. The Board of Directors K. Shah, when he was the Minister for has some big names but the difficulty with big Information and Broadcasting, went to Kanpur names is that they are busy bodies and they and declared that there will be a TV station at ,have no time to look into the working ,of the Kanpur during the Fourth Plan or so. Soon companies whose Board of directors they thereafter Mr. Gujral went to Kanpur; he also oblige by taking the 'Director's fees. declared that there will be a TV station at Kanpur during the Fourth Five Year Plan. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: And being Land was selected, buildings were nearly absent-minded. hired; they were at least offered in my presence. Somehow that plan was changed in spite of declarations by two Ministers, once a SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Most of ithem are Cabinet Minister and the other Minister of beyond 70 and you cannot .expect them to a State. I know the present Minister is not apply their mind to the problems but the active responsible for the change but some trade unionists who are in the employment of bureaucrat who owns a house at Lucknow and the PTI are being victimised everyday. There has plans to live at Lucknow, if and when he is the case of the General Secretary of the retires, changed it so that the TV station will Indian Federation of Working Journalists wh 0 now be at Lucknow. has been so harassed for months together that he had to go on leave without pay. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Who is he? SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Why did not the Minister intervene to stop the SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Mr. K. K. Das. H victimisation? e was the Chief Secretary of U.P. Government SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Mr. Gupta is stil] during Mrs. Sucheta Kripalani's regime which a Member of the House and he .can ask the was the worst regime that U.P. has ever had, Minister. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: Where is he SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: They given so now? much money and cannot they even do this?

SHRI ARJUN ARORA: One word about MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Arjun the TV. The growth of TV in this country. Arora. You continue please.

SHRI A. D. MANI: You appeared in the TV. SHRI ARJUN ARORA: He is somewhere not far from Broadcasting House. He was the SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Only once but Mr. Secretary of the Ministry of Information and Mani appears every week. The growth of TV Broadcasting and he changed the Ministers in this country is very slow. We in this country orders. The Ministers' declarations were have only one TV station which is rather half- ignored, Sir, the 1.3 million people of Kanpur hearted having only one or two channels are very much aggrieved at this change. I having a very limited programme. This very hope the present Minister of State will have useful mass media must be utilised to the ful\ the courage to revert to the original decision particularly because of the orevailing illitracy of giving Kanpur a TV station. in this country. The Govern- 249 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] 0/ Ministry of In forma- 250 tion and Broadcasting SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: Mr. These papers are headed by some persons Deputy Chairman, Sir, we are in a who pay lip sympathy to socialism , and these particular kind of society in which we papers practise scandals against others. But find the tragic fact that though there then, Sir, the Only thing is this. As far as this is written in the Constitution that Government is concerned the Central we must leave freedom of speech and | Government is concerned, it only consists of expression the tragedy is that the two halves. The first halt is slogan and the means of mass media and communi other half is bogus. With these two halves, cations are either in the hands of the this Government is gping on and this Govern- monopolists or in the hands of the ment is trying to mystify peopla, bluff people ruling party and they are so managed and confuse people by means of all kinds oi' or mismanaged that the people's wrong, false and distorted statements. These voice never gets through and the wrong, false and distorted statements they facts oi' life are always distorted in the give to the monopoly press which they help. It interests of certain monopolists and certain is their own press which is guided, controlled, other vested interests. Mr. Deputy Chairman, led and owned by their own men. I have given as a matter of fact. I belong to a party which the example of the Amrita Bazar Patrika, has been the particular victim of s:andal in the which is guided, owned and controlJed by one press and as far as Calcutta is concerned, there of their own men. As far as the monopoly perhaps you do not have a monopoly of the press is concerned, you have heard just now press so much as a happy marriage of the Mr. Arjun Arora and others saying that the Congress big bosses and the finances of the Hindustan Times are building a skyscraper in big press. Who does not know, for example, Kasturba Gandhi Road. As far as the that Mr. Prafulla Kanti Ghosh, the great skyscraper is concerned, the finances are Cong-gress leader of West Bengal? I do not being given by the LIC. If a poor man, if a know whether he is now in brightness or in middle-class mangoes to the LIC for shade because nowadays the Congress leaders getting some and Congressmen sometimes go into shade j building loan, he is harassed like anything, but and sometimes again they come back to then when big people go to the LIC for such brightness. Sometimes we hear about this man loans, when big monopolists go to the LIC or this lady but then we find that the things and other financial institutions for such loans, that we have heard is not quite correct. there is no difficulty at all and advances are given. Not merely that. After the advances are given big floors containing many rooms are SHRI MAHAVIR TYAGI (Uttar rented out and advance rents are collected Pradesh): The same is the case with CPI and from the Government organisations, from the CPM. very financial corporations which grant the loans. In this way the monopolists are nursed, SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE; In any event the monopolists are supported anci are we find that as far as Mr. Prafulla Kanti encouraged. Ghosh is concerned, he wields a very big I was referring. to_the press scandal against press in Calcutta and he is a big man in the us in a Calcutta paper, Mr. Prafulla Kanti Congress also. Now what about the scandals Ghosh's paper. You know that. When the that appear against us, not only against us but tragic death of Shri Hemant Kumar Basu against the workers, against the working occurred in Calcutta, what did we see? intelligentsia, against the peasants who start The movements in West Bengal for the purpose of 1 Jugantar, on the very day when the achieving their demands? What is happening 1 murder of Shri Hemant Kumar Basu and what is the remedy?

251 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of lnforvw- 252 tion and Broadcasting [Shri A. P. Chatterjee] I will not say she thinks Herself t0 be so, but her took place, issued a special edition of the flatterers and admirers need not be proud. That paper in whioh they said that it was the CPIM great socialist also has nothing to be proud of as which had murdered Shri Hem-ant Kumar far as the Statesman is concerned. The Basu. Statesman also writes arti-i cles and gives its SHRI A. D. MANI: Why did you not news in such a j fashion which is far from report it to the Press Council? flattering to her either. What steps has Mrs. SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: That is Gandhi's Government trken in order to see that what I am saying. What is this Press the Statesman is put in its place? Nothing. After Council doing? D'oes it not look into all whatever they may say, they cannot touch the the affairs of the press? Is it a matter monopolists, they cannot touch the vested to be written about? Is it not a interests. They nave no courage to do it. They .matter which should be within the will not do | it and they cannot do it. It has knowledge of the Press Council? Is become so contrary to the interests of the it meant that the Press Council must people. be a sleeping thing and it must be SHRI MAHAVIR TYAGI: Would it not be awakened once upon a while by the against the principle of the freedom of the proddings of certain Members or Press, to interfere? proddings of certain individuals? Is not the SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: I do not now Press Council meant to keep a watchful eye what Mr. Tyagi calls the freedom of the Press. on the press in India? Is it not their duty to see Freedom of the Press is a thing which cannot that the press carries on its activities in an function, which cannot flourish, in an honest atmosphere, in an atmosphere free of atmosphere of monopoly, in an atmosphere of calumny and slander? But they will not do it, vested interests, in an atmosphere where the because after all we heard just now that the Government will be giving nursing milk, so to Chairman of this House and the Speaker of say, to these monopolists so that they may the Lok Sabha have resigned from the Press expand, they may flourish. Freedom of the Council. Press can flourish only in an atmosphere SHRI T. N. SINGH (Uttar Pradesh) : There where the people must have their say, where i6 no question of their resigning. the people's movements would be properly SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: This was a quoted and pictured, where the people's statement made in the House. I do not know movements and parties will not be slandered. whether it is correct or not. Anyway, the Press That is the atmosphere in which it can flourish Council is not doing its duty at all. For and function. Now, Sir, what about the example, the other day what did their Council portrayal of the strikes, what about the do when the particular editor of the portrayal of the movements and the struggles Statesman—everybody knows his name—was of the working people in the Press? Sir, the sacked? He was sacked from the Statesman other day, the centre of Indian trade unions, a because he had the temerity to write some trade union organisation, called a strike against good words about the first the repressive policy of the Government of Government of West Bengal. Because he had India, almost a colonial measure, in West the temerity and the hardihood to write that, Bengal. We called a strike against the wave of he was dismissed. What did this Government repression which has been let loose one after do? Has it stopped the advertisements in the another there and that strike was called for Statesman? Has it done anything by way of the 11th August. The curtailing the activities of the Statesman? The Statesman is a paper of which the Prime Minister, that great socialist of the world, so to say, 253 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Informa- 254 ticn and Broadcasting

Prime Minister said that it was anti-national bag and tells his wife and his children, "I and all the Press joined in chorus with her and could not bring my ration because I am said that it was anti-national a workers' dismissed today The Factory is locked out, it strike. She calls herself a socialist; she is clcssd down." Has this monopoly Press in poses herself to be a socialist. A workers' India given out any news of that nature? But strike is being called by the Prime-Minister then this is the kind of Press which we will of India as anti-national. Will she now have to put up with. Therefore, the Press in call as anti-national the strike which is being India is going on in a fashion, both the mono- called by all the trade unions on the 25th polist Press and also that kind of Press which August this year? The eleventh has links with the Congress They are putting Aug.ust strike was called anti-national by her out pictures in such a fashion that the working and all the Press joined in the chorus of the class struggles are curbed and repressed, that jackals. They joined in the chorus and said peasant struggles may not progress. This is the that it was anti-national. I ask the Prime kind of Press and I accuse the Government. I Minister: Is the INTUC -anti-national? accuse the Government because the Govern- They are also joining the strike on the ment wants that state of affairs to continue. It 25th August. I am giving this example is the Government which gives only to show the attitude of the monopoly encouragement to all these things. It is the Press. The reactionary Pr.ess is always Government which is behind all these things. against the Government. But when the SHRI MAHITOSH PURAKAYA-STHA Government utters anti-national words, (Assam): They also brought out that cartoon. anti-working class phrases, when the Prime Minister indulges in anti-working class SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: I shall come to strategy and tactics, this press never hesitates, that cartoon later on. Now look at the All it supports her. I have seen it. That is the India Radio. Even the Chanda Committee has position. During the UF Government, well, said that the All India Radio has become an we were told so many hair-raising stories of attached office of the Government of India. gheraos and we were given a very juicy story And what does it do? It is always propagating by the Ananda Bazar Patrika one day in in favour of certain Ministers only. / 1967 when the United Front Government was Sir, the other day about Mr. Ajoy going on. What was the juicy story that —Mr. Pranab Kumar Mukerjee will was given out? It was that some lady of have patience when I was emplaning for Delhi some big boss tinkling her golden bangles from Calcutta, I heard the rumour that he had was looking out with wistful eyes from died in the hospital. But he is not dead, though the balcony of her posh bungalow in a posh politically he is dead, not physically. Mr. Ajoy locality because her husband was gheraoed by Mukherjee, in the Democratic Coalition some workers. Very good, Sir. We Ministry, put out a slander against us. Then shed our gallons of tears. A lady tinkling Mr. Promod Das Gupta, Secretary of our her golden bangles must not be allowed to Party, and Mr. , issued a statement look wistfully out from the balcony of her ' countering that slander. And what happened? posh bungalow in a posh locality. Very Mr. Ajoy Mukherjee's statement had been wrong very bad. But then. Sir, has the broadcast on the Radio while Mr. Promod Das Ananda Bazar Patrika ever | written about Gupta and Mr. Jyoti Basu's statement was the hungry eyes of that j wife of a dismissed blacked out by the All India Rario. worker, discharged worker. The worker goes to the factory finds the factory locked out, finds himself dismissed. The worker comes perhaps with an empty ration 255 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Informa- 256 tion and Broadcasting

SHRI PRANAB KUMAR MUKHER-JEE are running, you must be knowing better." (West Bengal): Mr. Ajoy Mukherjee was the Chief Minister and not Mr. Promod Das Then, Sir, look at the way the election Gupta. broadcasts were made. I will give you on^ instance. About a hundred times the All India Radio said that Mr. SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: Yes, a Chief was leading and winning. This was one Minister with a backing of only five persons. constituency where perhaps he was leading Anyway, when Mr. Jyoti Basu and Mr. Promod whereas in hundred such constituencies where Das Gupta telephoned the Director of the All the C.P.M. candidates were leading. That India Radio, Calcutta station, they were told oy news was not given again and again. This is him that the instructions were to black out all the position. The position is that this All India the news which came from the C.P.I. (M). This Radio has become a clique, so to say, of is what Mr. Jyoti Basu was told over the phone certain Ministers at Delhi, at the Centre. by the Director of the Calcutta station of All Therefore, we are supporting this stand that it India. That fact was mentioned to the Prime must be converted into a public corporation. Minister in Delhi. And, of course, the Prime After all the Chanda Committee was their Minister, as usual denied it. How can she admit creation. Why is it that the Ministry is not it? After all, she is a clever Prime Minister, a accepting the recommendations of the Chanda clever lady and an intelligent politician. She Committse? They were given long ago. The cannot be expected to admit it. How can she Chanda Committee said that if All India Radio confess a crime or an offence? Naturally, . she is to function properly, if it is to discharge its did not. (Time Bell rings.) This | has b.en put on duties impartially, then it must be converted record by letters writ- j ten to the Prime into a public corporation. We cannot allow it Minister. This is the position. to be converted into an "Indira praising megaphone". We cannot allow it to function as a megaphone for praising any particular And, Sir, what does this All India Radio do? minister or Ministers. (Time-bell) Sir, I will Whenever there is com- | plete strike, the All take a few minutes more. India Radio will always say, "Trains are running nor- '; mally. Buses are running. In the | MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You have factories and workshops 80 per cent. : people already taken 20 minutes. have joined." I remember an incident. Once there was complete ; striks in West Bengal. SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: I am finishing. But the All India Radio gave the news every half j an hour that the trains etc. were all ' Therefore, in order that All India Radio running to schedule. Then a gentle-man functions properly, it must be converted into a telephoned the Director, All India Radio, public corporation. Who does not know the Calcutta station, and enquired as to when such scandal that when one of our Ministers in the and such a train would leave. The United Front Government, Mr. Subodh Director of j of the All India Radio pretended Banerjee, wanted to give a speech through All sur- ' prise. He said, "It is not the Railway | India Radio, Calcutta Station, he was Nation". But the gentleman said, "You countermanded by a petty officer of the ought to know because I went to the Railway Calcutta Station of All India Radio on the Station and nobody could say that the ground that he thought that the speech would trains were running while the All India Radio not be in the interest of the country. Who is he gives out the news that the trains are running. to decide it? If it was not in When you say that the trains 257 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Informa- 258 tion and Broadcasting, the interest of the country, Mr, Sobutih and control of the Central Goven-ment but Banerjee could have been defeated on the also by the monopoly press which is being floor cf the House by a vote of no-confidence. encouraged and helped by the Government. It was not the job of that petty officer. After that, what happened? There was a committee Lastly, coming to the question of which it was said would settle a code of the Press Trust of India, I will not conduct. But that committee also is not say much because many people h.we functioning. I do not know what the latest spoken about it already But I d° position is, but in the book issued by the not understand how this Government, Ministry on the subject, it is said (hat the which is so much against monopolists, committee cannot function because the States can give Rs. 55 lakhs to a company are not agreed upon their representation on the which it was said would not be given committee. And in the meantime what will any loan unless it agreed to be happen? Ministers when they go to speak transformer into a public corpora through All India Radio at these stations will tion. Sir I will only refer to the be countermanded by petty officers on the statement of Shrimati Nnndini ground that it is not in public interest. Satpathy in I ok Sabha on July 8, 1971. When this question was raised, she said: "It is Finally, Mr. Arjun Arora has spoken about undoubtedly a recommendation, but it was a television and about films also, somebody has re.-ommerda-tion which the Press spoken. We find that those films are being en- Commissu.n expected would be voluntarily couraged and are being okayed and passed by accepted by the PTI. The Press Commission, the Government—particularly I am talking however, further suggested that a loan of Rs. about films about Calcutta—which are highly 10 lakhs could be advanced to the PTI rr.d the critical and scandalous about the people of pre-condition of this loan should be the TI or the West Benc'al. Who does not know the West acceptance by the P proposal to convert German film which was produced in it into a corporation." Now a loan of Rs. 10 collaboration with the Indian Government., lakhs hr>3 not bee:- advanced. But a larger "Tabla Calcutta"? I raised the question on the sum of Rs. 55 lakhs has been given to the floor of the House. It is as bad as Louis Press Trust of India. What I arr submitting is Malle's film on Calcutta on which there was a this. This is the way in which the Government furor?. But then that film has been passed by is curbing monopolists. Why don't you say I the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. hat you are for monopolists? Why actually go In these two films, Calcutta has been shown in about creat ing this confusion? Perhaps if is in a very horrid light and the people of Bengal your interests to create confusions. But I +ell have been shown in a very disparaging light. you, all people cannot be fooled for all time. And what is the result? The result is that West Some people can be fooled for all time. All Bengal is* being deserted by everybody. Even people can be fooled for some time. But all in the tourist pamphlet Calcutta is not people cannot be fooled for all time. This PTI mentioned, West Bengal is not mentioned. is headed by a particular General Manager West Bengal and Culsutta are being who has got two houses, one in Delhi and denigrated by this Central Government in a another in Bombay. And he is an expert in planned way and this denigration of Culcutta transferring, in terminating the services of the and West Bengal is being done not only employees, in victimising the employees, who through the help of mass media and media of are engaged in trade union activities, perhaps communications which are under the authority W'th the blessings of the Government This is the way in which the Information and Broadcasting Ministry is conducting its functions. 259 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry 0/ lnjorma- 260 tion and Broadcasting SHRI A. D. MANI: Within the fifteen Mr. Ramachandran, for many, many, years. minutes available to me I •would like to deal . . with three points which have been raised in SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: About the debate: Subramanian. (1) regarding the Press Trust of India; (2) regarding the diffusion of owner SHRI A. D. MANI: No, I am not talking of ship of newspapers; ,and (3) the ques Subramanian. I am talking of Ramachandran. tion of the entry of foreign films into He was one of those who had taken part in the India. I hope, Sir, you would allow civil disobedience movement. Mr. Ram- me it I exceed my time by one or chandran has not accumulated any wealth. two minutes. I hope you would not He does not say. . . mind it because I happen to be a SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: What about member of the Press Commission which recommended that the Press Subramanian? Trust of India should be converted SHRI A. D. MANI: We do not know into a statutory corporation. I was where he stayed. About Mr. Ramachandran, also a director of the Press Trust of India for fifteen years and was its we cannot condemn him like that. We have chairman and I know quite a lot net become So\ iet Union yet as to investigate into where he stays or. . . (Interruptions) about its working. I am glad that the Leader of the House is here because SHRI JOACHIM ALVA (Nominated): I he too was chairman of the Press

SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Mr. Mani, is it SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Why Sir, the a fact that the General Manager of the PTI has honourable- Member started with a built a residential house in Journalists' pretension that he knows everything. quarters which costs Rs. 4 to Rs. 5 lakhs and yet he lives in a Birla flat and the SHRI A D. MANI: I want to deal with the airconditioning apparatus that he has fixed in question of the recommendation of the Press his hotel in Delhi costs about Rs. 1,400 per Commission regarding conversion of the PTI month if it is run full time? into a corporation. The matter was before the meeting of the shareholders at that time and I SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Whose flat? was on the Board of Direc-

SHRI A. D. MANT: I am very glad I that this has been raised because I I happen to know the General Manager, ' 261 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Information and 262 Broadcasting tors and I attended that meeting of the share his knowledge impartially with us. shareholders. The shareholders did not accept the recommendation. When We discussed the SHRI A. D. MANI: I will do that. The matter, the point of view was borne in mind tenders were examined by a committee that nobody can be compelled to convert consisting of Shri Uma-shankar Dikshit and himself as part of a statutory corporation and Shri A. K. Roy. What better and more it is for that reason the recommendation was impartial body than this can any board set up not accepted. to examine the tenders? I do not know about the CBI inquiry. But 1 understand that Shri After that many things happened Four Lall & Co. was responsible for setting up the outsiders were taken on the PTI Board. One of fertiliser plant in Gorakhpur. It may not be a them wa Shri Chintaman Deshmukh. Shri s qualification. These are all matters which Gajen-dragadkar was the colleague of the were gone into, not by newspaper people, but Leader of the House when he was in the by eminent men like Shri Umashankar Board of Directors and then Shri A. K. Roy Dikshit and Shri A. K. Roy. . . was there. The question was raised about the building. I do not feel that the hon. Minister of SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: Persons State was fair to the PTI because when against whom CBI inquiry is pending are referring to this matter in the other House she being encouraged by the government. said that the Press Commission recommended that Rs. 10 lakhs should be given, but they SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Shri A. K. Roy gave Rs. 55 lakhs. If she goes through the has become Director in 18 companies and records of the government, she will see that it this has become a public scandal. was Shri Krishnamachari who was responsible for telling the PTI Board at that SHRI A. D. MANI: I am afraid, sir, that time in 1962 that we should not approach my time is being taken up by others. The private parties like the Punjab National Bank, question is this. Government has not done any the United Commercial Bank, etc. for loans favour to the PTI by giving Rs. 55 lakhs be- and that we should take the Money from the cause it collects interest at the rate of 6i per government. They have not given it for cent and it has got the benefit of 40,000 sq. ft. nothing to the PTI. They collect 6 per cent of space which has been given to them. It is a rate of interest and they have taken 40,000 sq. straightforward commercial transaction. . . ft. at the rate of 75 paise per sq. ft. whereas the market rate is Rs. 3 per sq. ft. They cannot use SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: He is talking this as lever to twist the tail of the PTI . This like a building editor, not a newspaper editor. is not fair. . . He speaks in terms in terms of 40,000 sq. ft. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Do you know rent, and so that the contractor for the PTI is one Shri C. on. B. Lall against whom CBI inquiry was SHRI A. D. MANI: I know there is lot of pending for corruption and misuse of funds? feeling on the question of the independence Has it been inquired into? of PTI. . . SHRI R. T. PARTHASARATHY (Tamil Nadu): If there is any graft charge, the SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Charging 6i- per Auditor General should say that there is cent interest is a big favour because no bank something wrong in the accounting. will give Shri A. D. Mani any money at this interest. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: On a point of order. Shri Mani should that question. 263 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] oj Ministry of Informa- 264 tion and Broadcasting SHRI R. T. PARTHASARATHY: But SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA- If I were 40,000 sq. ft. of space has been given to them in a paper, I would have sacked you 1 at the rate cf 75 paise sq. ft. because you are a building contractor-SHRI A. SHRI \RJUN ARORA. Sir. it is a well D. MANI: Sir, I know that there is an increasing established ccrventioi in the House that when public demand that there should be some form cf one speaks, he should speak from his seat. public control over the PT1: Shri Parthasara'hy is r.ot speaking from bis seat. (Interruptions) SHRI A. D. MANI; Sir, I would like to SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA Vvhat is-that? mention one thing and it is a very relevant yoint. The loan was taken in the early sixties SHRI A. D. MANI: Sir, public control need an 1 at tha* time-the Bank rate was much not be always in the form of a statutory lower than what it is today and we have taken corporation. into consideration the 40,000 so ft which has been given at concessional rates because it is SHRI A. P. CHATTER TEE: Why not? a package deal. We said, "You give us this and we will give yow 6J per cent. In any case, SHRI A. D. MANI: It need not always be so. I realise the depth of feelings 0:1 this It is only one form of ownership a,i;] 1 a;n question. suggesting another form. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir. he Sir. the Press Commission recommended the claims to be a ...... trust form of ownership for the newspapers. I am prepared to suggest to the Minister—I MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please do discussed it about this with her privately— that not interrupt. she may consider the setting up of a trust for SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA- Sir. he claims controlling the PTI. to be a Membar of the Press Commission and DR. K, MATHEW KURIAN (Kerala): yet he does not have a feeling against the Trust of th monopolists9 victimisation of Mr. Vats, a Journalist or 22 e year's standing and 15 years of service and 6 SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA- Did you make years in foreign c*> in tries. the suggestion as a Member of the Press SHRI A. D. MANI: Sir, I realise the Commission? strength of his feelings SHRI A. D. MANI: I am suggest-j ing (Interruptions) it to her now.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please do SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Why? not interrupt. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN. Mr. i SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: Mr-Mani. Mani. you have got very little time. So how many joiimalists have you sacked? please conclude now

SHRI A. D. MANI: I have not sack ed SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: Sir, I think he any. has read a book lhat the monopoly should be mad into trust and all that. (Interruptions) e MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please do SHRI K. P. SUBRAMANIA MENON not interrupt. (Kerala): You have sacked many people from the "Hitavada" and also the Secretary of the SHRI A. D. MANI Sir, I would like to Union. mention another point of mine. 265 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Injorma- 266 J tion and Broadcasting Sir, you can think of the trust form j of shares. Benett Coleman and Co. was giving control and the editorial policies j and the the shares to its employees in those days, Sir. independence of the PTI and also I feel, Sir, sensing the crisis that we are regarding the business matters. Sir, Mr. having in the country, there should be a broad Dikshit will bear me out when I say that art based form of ownership and I would like the the meetings of the PTI no directions are shares to be distributed to the workers in the given to the editorial staff. For 15 years I industry. 5 P.M. was the Director and I can say, not one of the But, Sir, one of the points that editorial policies } was discussed.. . has got to be borne in mind is .(Interruptions). that we have to take into DR. K. MATHEW KURIAN: Damage is consideration that there are done at the General Manager's level. Party organs like the "Motherland" or like the "Organizer" which are party SHRI A. D. MANI: Now, Sir, I will come organs. . . . to the other point on which Shri Bhupesh Gupta would like to have my views, that is, (Interruptions). on the diffusion of ownership. There is a certain ideology which they represent and to interfere in the ownership of Sir, we had discussed the matter at | the Press such papers, by distributing shares to people Commission at length and many of us felt that you would destroy the freedom of expression the ownership of the newspapers should be of those papers, which have been brought out broad-based and I can tell you, Sir, that one of for some specific purpose for putting forward the newspapers which attempted a particular a certain point of view. form of ownership was the Bennett Coleman and Co. during the British days. They gave The hon. Member, Shri Krishan Kant, their shares to their employees and quite a referred to Mr. Chalapathy Rao's notes on number of them made substantial money by concentration of monopolies. I have gone selling their shares to Mr. Dalmia when he through that note. We are all concerned with purchased "The Times of India" and it was a the question of unfair competition between straightforward business transaction. They sold big and small newspapers. Some steps have their shares. And, Sir, we had all these points of got to be taken to give protection to small newspapers. Sir, I feel that the Government in view in mind and I feel, in the present mood. . . this matter should consult the Press Council. I . am sorry to say that the Minister of State for SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: Sir, excuse me Information and Broadcasting has not so far for the interruption. There were three crores referred the matter to the Press Council. The of rupees and that money was taken over by Press Council has been set up as a result of Dalmia and "The Times of India" was the recommendations maae by a committee of purchased. That was a fraud, Sir. Excuse me both Houses of Parliament. We must respect for saying that. this Council. . . . SHRI A. D. MANI: Mr. Alva, I am (Interruptions) Our hon. friend, not talking about the Dalmias...... Mr. Ganga Saran Sinha is a member of the (Interruptions). . . . .Please listen to me. I am Press Council. The Press Council must have not talking about the Dalmias. an opportunity to discuss this matter and it is a very reasonable suggestion to make, SHRI ARJUN ARORA: He is not talking because the Government cannot proceed about the Dalmias. unilaterally without taking the opinion of the SHRI A. D. MANI: I am talking about the Press Council. employees who sold their 267 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA j of Ministry of Informa- 268 tion and Broadcasting My third and final point is about the import SHRI A. D. MANI: We do not want murder, of foreign films. Sir, I do not admire some of we do not want violence to be glorified. We the American films that are imported into want academic films to be shown here. We India. Many of them glorify sex, glorify want Academy Award films to be shown and murder, glorify assault.... I do not want that we should shut the doors SHRI K. P. SUBRAMANIA MENON: But because it is an American films. The films you see them all. which have won the Academy Award must be shown here. SHRI A. D. MANI: Not all. But I do not want the State Trading Cor poration to be brought into the pic SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Sir, he has ture in this matter. The State Trad misrepresented the Ministry of Foreign Trade. ing Corporation cannot determine There is a monopoly that the Americans what picture I should see. If they do enjoyed by importing films to this country. it. this will more or less lead to a That monopoly is being broken by the censorship of the mind and consorship Ministry of Foreign Trade and now we will of art and literature. Sir, we can see, apart from some good American films, set up a committee consisting of some films manufactured and produced in Members of Parliament, members re various other countries also. presenting culture and art and per sons from Universities to go into the matter. But then also I do not feel SHRI D. P. SINGH (Bihar): Mr. Deputy that we should put the question of Chairman, I must first answer Mr. Maui. The import of foreign films on the basis other day he asked me to listen to his speech of import or export of shoes. Sir, this and again he has referred to the same matter is not a commodity. It is a matter today, as if he feels that he has not gone home. regarding the mind. Films are also Now, so far no one can say that the import of for entertainment of the mind. There foreign films has been restricted. I do not know is something of artistic and cultural what will come in future but up to the present value in them. I feel that the Minis time the types of films that have been imported ter of State for Information and from the United States and are liberally shown Broadcasting should take a firm stand in all cinema houses are only the films which in this matter. She cannot allow the do not serve any purpose of education but are Minister of Foreign Trade to deal the films which portray sex and crime and with this matter. What is going to which are spoiling the mind of the youth and happen, Sir, unfortunately, is that if are likely to have very adverse and sinister American films are banned, our own influence on the minds of our younger film producers would be deprived of generation. On this basis, however, no one can their plots.... (Interruptions). Sir, say that films are like 'bhoots' but once a film that will be a very retregrade step. ceases to be accelerating, if it does not give an intellectual excitement which one is looking SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: After you for, or if it does not ease or give the mental 6peak, I feel like sending you to participate in relief or the noble feeling, then it is as well 'Mickey Mouse'. worth not importing either and better we rely SHRI A. D. MANI: But 'Mickey Mouse' on our own talents and our own genius to looks to Soviet people, not American people. develop a film. There is no dearth of talents In any case, I feel that this should not stop here. because this is a thing which affects the mind and entertainment. I feel that the step that the Government has taken in stopping the import of foreign films will impede the flow of ideas. SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: I am not in favour of S.T.C. but there should be restrictions on the foreign films.

269 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 J of Ministry of Informa- 270 tion and Broadcasting

Now coming to the subject, Sir, at the making a corresponding restriction in ihe shape moment you would have noticed a general of reasonable restriction either in the concern in the House about the distortion or the framework of the Constitution it will be suppression of truth. That might occur in provided or an additional right may be any form in India or abroad. created for freedom of speech and Particularly, people may have ielt absolutely information and then put corresponding distressed when the most gruesome and telling restrictions. This is how the agitation ha3 been facts of life, as are happening in Bangia Desh, going on and it is sought to be highlighted. are not being portrayed outside and are not Then various attempts have been made in the receiving either effective publicity or shape of price page schedule to bring about the proper and correct influence is not reaching desired result and give the smaller papers those quarters at all. Naturally, the whole a certain amount of relief. That nation feels disturbed. Similarly, on the unfortunately was struck down by the same pattern is the treatment being given to Supreme Court that law must operate the news in India. Whatever medium equally—that is what they found—and we might have been adopted for this purpose, have read in Mr. Chalapathy Rao's paper that suggestions have been made relating to the the decision of the Supreme Court is a charter results achieved by the functioning of the for the monopoly press to operate and now monopoly press and the manner in which it is no longer possible to get the correct the monopoly press is functioning. You will picture, com-n e with them in the market have noticed that repeatedly concern has with their larger resources, large money been shown and protest made from the they have, the various agencies for journalists that the manner in which the information they have and the various monopoly is functioning at the moment is not institutions they can employ for the purpose very conducive to the dissemination of the of getting information. This is the problem truth or the fact or the information which is ne- that has to be tackled to achieve that cessary for the proper education of our particular result but apart from that, there are people or the information about the political other problems which you must have noticed. developments and it is said that the difficulty Those are the problems of Government is that when you guarantee the freedom of patronage in various cases. Of course after speech in your Constitution and give a cor- all advertisements have to be given. The responding protection in the shape of putting various papers are bound to receive them but the reasonable restriction to the freedom of criticism that comes very often is that the speech, then all that you i could do was to patrons or receipients of those favours, if protect the honour of a person by providing for they subsequently start misbehaving or if they libel. You could protect the court by providing are not producing the results or carry on their for contempt of court. You could provide business in a manner which was within the for the security of the nation by providing for contemplation of the parties, what are we to public order for the security of the State but the do? I have the instance of one news problem of the small paper as such competing agency—INFA. This is a feature agency. with bigger monopolies and the manner in which their voices are muzzled or not heard at Now one of the very peculiar features of all, that aspect needed to be looked into and this agency was during the election campaign that could be done only by an amendment of it competed with the monopoly press in its the Constitution, by enlarging the scope of presentation as well as forecasts it put out in article 19(2) or mak- | ing a separate its different services. In a latest letter from declaration about the freedom of speech of the New Delhi INFA has put out an utterly press in article 19(1)(a) of the Constitution libellous story of pure and 271 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA of Ministry of Infor- 272 m.atirm and Broadcastina

[Shri D. P. Singh] concoction. I would not Sir, in the light of these two articles, details of like to read it because it is so dirty. That story which I will furnish. I request that the matter tries to implicate the Prime Minister, the may be looked into and examined thoroughly Prime Minister's family, and it is calculated to because if they go on giving out news which is undermine the prestige of the Prime Minister. basically incorrect and calculated to This has been put out in order to malign the undermine prestige and honour then it is a case whole family and the whole stuff is calculated for which the severest action must be taken. to undermine the prestige and honour of the Apart from this, one would like to say that Prime Minister and to create an insidious there is general satisfaction about the working influence in the minds of the reading public. of the All India Radio. There are however two This has to be looked into and I suggest that or three things which may be given some positive steps may be taken in this regard. attention. As far as the youth is concerned, one SHRI A. D. MANI: I do not want to more aspect needs to be looked into. Now interrupt my hon. friend who is a lawyer of their education, their entertainment, etc. is be- great eminence but I went to ask this question. ing looked into but I suggest that some The answer to all that sort of propaganda was attention needs to be paid to the aspect of their given by the electorate which gave a very big employment also. As far as their employment majority to the Prime Minister. opportunities are concerned, what is being done by other agencies could be profitably SHRI JOACHIN ALVA: But what about done here also. the lies? In the educational programmes 3 special SHRI A. D. MANI: That is what 1 said. emphasis should be given to the scientific The Lies have been nailed to the wall; why do aspect of it so that the schools in the interior, you want to suppress, it? schools in the remote villages, which do not SHRI ARJUN ARORA: The lies must be have the facility of good science teachers, suppressed. could benefit by it and scientific education may be available to them. There is also scope SHRI B. P. SINGH: This is not connected for improvement in regard to scientific news, with the election; this is connected with the day to day working and the integrity of the news about research and so on. Political news person and naturally that has a far-reaching has predominance and sports news also does effect Three or four things have to be said in find a place. This is a case where they can this connection. This INFA has been running look into. down our foreign policy but the External Affairs Ministry buys this service for Rs. 26,000 a year. Seven of our Missions abroad buy them separately. The Defence Ministry pays nearly Rs. 18,000 a year and the Chief of Staff wrote a special circular to all Army units to buy this service. INFA specially caters to foreign embassies, particularly those of the USA, UK and West Germany. It issues special backgrounders to foreign embassies on Indian defence and makes a lot of money. Besides, several State Governments are paying amounts varying from Rs. 15,000 to Rs. 18,000- 273 Discussion on working [30 JULY, 1971] of Ministry of Infor- 274 mation and Broadcasting

275 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry oj Injorma- 276 lion and Broadcasting

277 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Informa- 278- tion and Broadcasting

279 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry of Informa- 280 tion and Brodcasting

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Till we finish all the speakers, may be 7-30. SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: How long do we sit? MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Till we finish, roughly till 7-30 Mr. Bhupesh will take about half-an-hour, and the hon. Minister will take about half-an-hour. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am glad you have given me half-an-hour. SHRI UMASHANKER JUSHI (No- minated): I hope I will be given 15 minutes. Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, after the din and fury which is inevitable in the speeches of party members, perhaps the hon. House would be interested in listening to a non-party voice. Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sh^ I have a feeling that the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting has been relegated to a minor place in the ministerial hierarchy ever since the dawn of independence. The Information and Broadcasting Ministry as well as the Education Ministry sometimes have the look of a "noman's land". And these are the Ministries which will contribute, and do contribute in other countries, to the shaping of the younger generation. I want to be brief and I will come out with some concrete suggestions. The Information and Broadcasting Ministry has a Publications Division. It is a sprawling Ministry and it is difficult to dovetail the various func tions of the Ministry. I do not know whether we can be proud of our Publications Division even after 24 years of independence. If you look at the list of the publications in the various Indian languages, the production is meagre, if not next to nil, in the case of quite a number of languages. And the books produced in English are not always such as would add much to our credit. The usual argument advanced is that it is not possible to produce books in the various languages as there is difficulty in getting the services of the print. ing presses.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Umashanker Joshi. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: How long do we continue. 281 Discussion on working t RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry o) Injorrna- 282 tion and Brodcastinn [THE VICE-CHAIRMAN, (Shri A. D. MANI) or her. But if you want k> have the services of in the chair]. an expert Malayalam announcer in" Delhi you may have to pay more to him or her because There are linguistic States now and it should otherwise he or she may not be tempted to be' possible for the Information and leave his or her home and come and settle Broadcasting Ministry to have a liaison or down in Delhi. Delhi can provide with some understanding with the State English announcer and Hindi announcers. But "information Departments and see to the quick for the other Indian language^ you will have production of books in various Indian to provide for higher salaries. languages. About the distribution of the few books that are being pToduced, the less said Now, some of us will recall that in the days the better. You have only to walk into a shop of the first Prime Minister of our country of Her Majesty's Stationery Department and when the Ministry had the late P^ M. Lady as pick up books without much difficulty. In its Secretary, writers and artistes of the India there are dumped on us books, various languages were associated. pamphlets, brochures, leaflet's, from foreign SHRI JOACHIM ALVA : He was a great agencies and it takes"the life out of one to get patriot. a book published by our own publication SHRI UMASHANKER J0SHI: That is why Division, fe it a tall order to arrange for the I referred to him in all reference. He saw to it sale of the books produced by the Publications that writers and artistes of the various Indian Division at least in the State capitals ? languages were associated with the running of As far as broadcasting is concerned, I will this Ministry. concentrate oh the quality of voices. If you SHRI JOACHIM ALVA : He was the first hear the voices and see the way a particular ICS man who used to go in dhoti to the Indian language is pronounced and articulated Secretariat. on the radio, you will have an uncanny feeling that there are so -many ways of murdering that SHRI UMASH ANKER JOSHI: He made great Indian language. Sir, you will recall aF great sacrifices. He refused the offer of the time of the Chinese invasion we were hard appointment as Chief Justice of Rajasthan and put to finding out who was broadcasting iQ stuck to this post as a patriot. Patriots are not Hindi. The lady announcer, we thought, was an found only in Parliament and Ministerial Indian renegade. But ultimately it was found offices They are there in the Secretariat also. It nat out * it was nobody else but a Chinese— was he who provided channels through which born up man. I., it not possible to find or train the creative energy of the nation could freely people who have perfect articulation in the flow. Are the writers and artistes of today on various Indian languages ? When shall we talking terms with All India Radio, our great have a De-Mello fro every Indian language? medium of nation-building ? The announcer sets the tone, sets the standard,*7or articulating a particular This tempts me to refer to somehing to which language. So many people learn from the a reference was made by a couple of honourable radio. It is said we do not get men for the Members, I mean an article, a leader in the salaries we offer in New Delhi. May I make a 'National Herald' by no less a journalist than suggestion in all humility ? If is time that we Shri Chalapathi Rao. A man of Shri Chalapathi looked at this problem from a very different Rao's journalistic standing and stature writes _ angle. The salary you pay to an English only when he must. He writes when some announcer or a Hindi announcer in Delhi may principles are involved. I should not like to refer be adequate for him I to the UPSC. The UPSC selects can- 283 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Informa- 284 Hon and Broadcasting [Shri Umashanker Joshi.] didates. A man may be thrown out if he is THE VICE CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. found to be undesirable or if .he is found to be MANI): Shri Joachim Alva. wanting. I do know that the Government have every right, they would be justified, in making their own selection because they have to run the administration, but in that case they will have to give some reasons. All that I am THE VICE CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. concerned with is this, if the intellectual elite MANI): He is a journalist. of the country feels that it is slighted, it will be a great disservice to the country. If the rights SHRI JOACHIM ALVA; Why do you of the intellectuals and academicians, who grudge me? You speak for the whole day and have opted for Governmental service, of men when I speak once in a way, you grudge. Sir, who have shown ability, loyalty, character, in the first and foremost place, I would like to integrity, are overridden, perhaps it would pay my tribute to my esteemed friend, the last create conditions which are not desirable for Minister for Information and Broadcasting, the running of a Government. Before I close, I for having done a few good things indeed. should like to refer to the loud talk about the The first work Shri Gujral did was, as was freedom of the press. The press requires big pointed out by my esteemed friend Shri Chen- money. It can come either from big business or galvaroyan, that he brought the Youth from the State. If the State has sole monopoly Services Programme in the All India Radio. of doling out truth, that is also not a very ideal Whenever we had ahy grievances of anything situation. I am personally not enamoured of to say, he listened to them and did something the condition of the press in our country. But if about tnem quickly. the State takes upon itself to be the sole mono- polist of truth, you have to ask yourself Secondly, he turned the All India Muslim whether you want one standard lie or a variety Newspaper Editors' Conference into the Urdu of lies. Perhaps it would be easier for truth to Newspaper Editors' Conference and I was very break through if there is a variety of lies. happy to see our present Minister, Shrimati However, what I would like to suggest is that Nan-dihi Satpathy, going to the gathering. I am instead of caring for the big business and the glad that Urdu press is also getting as much press they own and strangle there should be money as the Maratln or Malayalam press gets some still small voices in the country which for advertisement. I have got figures with me, would be listened to by all. For instance, Shri but I have no time to quote them. Oat of 1,000 Rama-nand Chatterjee's Modern Review was readers for dailies, Malayalam language read by all who cared for the country. Even the readers has got about 40. Next comes Gujarati, Viceroy and Mahatma Gandhi waited on the All others are much down below including first of every month for the fresh issue of Bengali. Urdu papers get as much money from Modern Revieto. the government by way of advertisements, as the Malayalam pres3 and the Gujarati press SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: So also get. Since my time is up, I will not quote the Indian Review. figures. I have got them here. But I shall come SHRI UMASHANKER JOSHI: Yes, so to the point a little later. But I would like to also Indian Review and Social Reformer welcome the new Minister. We have got a new adited by the great partiot, Natarajan. Let there Minister who has had a very dynamic political be no glib talk about fTee press. While we career and we welcome her. But she may not want to set things right, we should not under- be welcomed by everybody because some mine what is called the freedom of the press people are obsessed with certain ideas. I am sure she will do 'justice to the job. As one of my 285 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Informa- 286 tion and Broadcast™ a friends here put it—I have forgotten his went there last night. It is a good picture. I name—she has introduced a higher pay for the think it is an Italian background. It shows how artistes. Sir, charity begins at home and I am old worr.en and others resisted the Nazis after + glad hat she has started it at home and I hope Mussolini was out. I would like everyone to she will do many more things. see this film because it serves as a source of inspiration and I would like all the MPs. and Sir, I regret that though the hon. Prime others, every citizen, to see that picture. It is Mi'nister is enjoying the position of the not produced by the Americans; may be Minister of Information, I would like this American money is there behind that. But I am Ministry to be a full-fledged Ministry of aghast when I see people seeing the big Information in the sense that the hon. Prime thrillers, the films of sex and murder, being Minister may find time for other things. It is a shown in India. We do not want filthy films, pity that Shri Gujral was not made a full-time because they corrupt our ycuth. Our boys are Minister, a Cabinet Minister, for Information. going round and seeing such films. Sir, I am But I hope the young lady will get what he did indebted to my friend, Shri M. V. Kamath, not get and I wish her good luck. who is an exceptionally able journalist and Sir, mV favourite point is about the films who is in New York, who has stated in the and I have put in a lot of resolutions and "Times of India", at page 6, of the 16th July, questions in regard to the indecent and 1971 that there are 21 opium refineries of obscene films, some of them have not come various sizes and capacity in Burma, Thailand up. This is one thing which is getting into my and Laos and these produce about 700 tons of heed. I am old and I am 65 now. But when I opium. Sir, the conditions in winch these see my grand-children going to see the films, countries, Laos, Burma and some other films of sex and murder, my blood boils. I do countries, are living, We do not have. But our not say that all the pictures are bad. As a boys and gins are ready to take to them. Our school and college boy taught by Italian boys and girls are not going to fight for Their Jesuits in , bad, objectionable, sexy motherland. But they want the 'Chick, Chick' books were banned with an iron hand. We dance and all that. If they do all these things, then grew up drinking pure milk and today wc they cannot fight for their motherland and even cannot touch impure milk. I do not see nor at the end of the century we will not be able to enjoy any indecent pictures which many do— do that. It is because for the last thirty years we because they never had the kind of training, have been brouht up by the American films so morally which the Italian Jesuits gave us on as to submerge our morality. Sometimes they Mangalore or the good old Jesuits and Nuns produce some good films on the Bible. Of elsewhere. But I am not sure of my own course, there are certain producer^ here who children or grand children in the future. If they will not make good pictures from the have had no such training, they will enjoy Ramayana and the Mahabharata. I must sexual, degrading films—and thus the Nation confess that I have seen the drama on will be demand like American yauths wherein Ramayana in Kannada when I was less than illegitimate children are born in universities. I ten and I have been so much influenced by it do not want the indecent films to be shown. that the Ramayana is a part of my life and I We are accustomed to seeing the American have read it ten times or twenty times and I films. But we are horrified at the abominable have been so much influenced by that I have American films that are coming. Some are named my grandson as Anjaneya, a figure good pictures like Halleluia, My Fair Lady etc. from the Ramayana. There is one excellent picture being shown in Plaza this week and I would like all of you to go and see that picture, called The Secret of Sir, I will not talke about myself and San Vittoria. I my personal things. But I want

287 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry 0} I?if orma-288 tion and Broadcasting [Shri Joachim Alva.] to say that the Indian mother's love, and real love, and not the producers are a worthless class—though disgustingly, Sexy boys' and girls love stories Shantaram and have produced as shown in our films. I would urge upon the good films. I want the hon. Minister, young as Minister to be serious about it. We do not she is, to see that these indecent American want obscene scenes to be shown for two or films go back. We shall have only good films. three minutes at a time, with open sexual So many sex and murder films of America are scenes between men and women, with body there and how are you going to put up with ready for sexual acts and unashamedly doing these? I want the hon. Minister, Shri-mati it before our very eyes! All this is allowed by Satpathy, to take interest in this problem and I the Censors. If we are shown such obscene want her to lead a legion of woman against films more and more, forget your bad films. The Catholics have done in grandchildren; they will not the bearers and America. The Catholic Legion in America for gardians of freedom in this land. It will be a Decent Films have done this in America by loss for ever. which they substantially stopped the rotten We see the Americans chewing gums and pictures and I would like the hon. Minister to not standing in battle in Vietnam, Little boys form a league of women by which she will tell and girls from Vietnam stand up and fire with the Indian women to take the leadership in this anti-aircraft guns at the American planes. field and see that nobody goes to see bad They have given such a fierce battle to the films. My friends are obsessed about the Americans that they are how forced to Quit Soviet Union. What wonderful picture the Vietnam. Soviet Union produces! There is no rotten book stall in the Soviet Union. My friend, Mr. Sir, I will talk about one thing more and U. M. Nair, a prominent Communist M.P. in finish. These film producers never allow good that Lok Sabha in the fifties, now out, pictures to be seen by us, and the?ia reminded me after I saw him since many years exhibitors, never g.llow foreign films—good that I delivered a strong speech in the fifties, films—to come here. being the only Congress Member under Nehru Now, Sir, coming to documentaries, I want to support his motion that Communist litera- to pay a tribute to the documentaries. My ture not to be kept out of our Railway book friend said that American documentaries are stalls. Mr. Prem Bhatia. then Special first-class documentaries. I would say that we Correspondent of the Statesman now our High have also produced very good documentaries. Commissioner in Singapore commented that I would like that more such documentaries are though my speech was only of five minutes, it produced in our country on good manners and ,vas the best speech I delivered as an M.P. till good habits. Some of our Ministers—I am then. Yet Mr. Bhatia had condemned my sorry to say— chew 'paans' in this House. I maiden speech in the Lok Sabha in 1950 as would like them to exhibit through these laughable in Statesman. This came out of his documentaries on good manners so that we pro-British bias. I have never delivered a can make ourselves a great nation. laughable speech in my career! In USA, near UN on 42nd Street there are rotten book stalls Now, coming to small newspapers, I may on the one side and obscene films on the other. say that I am going to close down my paper We are imitating the Americans. I must say the Forum at the end of this year". I did not that there is no sex film shown in the Soviet ask for any Government money or press for Union or in China or any other Communist more advertisements. I did not ask them to countries. They produce massive pictures, help my paper with any—aid except adver- great stories of love, tisements. The Indian Advertising Agencies are lacking in patriotism. They are now getting all Government 289 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry of Informa- 290 tion and Broadcasting advertisements—some of them through girls. I years this way, that way, on this one and on want to be very frank with you. That's why I that one, and they are running papers. Take want the public sector advertisements to be the monopoly of the papers away from their taken and to be run by themselves. Hindustan hands by any law. Machine Tools should run their own machinery; Hindustan Steel should have their Now, the AH India Newspapers Editors own mach:nery, and not give them to tfte Conference—I was a member there—they passed a resolution that they were worried; advertising agents. The Indian Advertising agents call themselves very, very busy. 'They Mr. Verghese was worried; the Hindustan have no time to talk to you On the phone; they Times was worried. Mr. Verghese now the are very busy. Mr. Raghunathan, when Editor of Hindustan Times was worried about telephoned of India Oil as I complained would the Constitution Bill forgetting the ideology not talk to me; six times I rang him up when I he shared with P.M. when he had the 'honour was not an M.P. How do you expect the to work with her. country to go forward with unjust, unbalanced We, three Members of Parliament— Mrs. and immoral kind of patriots in our Mukul Banerjee, Mr. Prem Varma and advertising. We are dragging it unto American myself—opposed this resolution opposing lines. Constitution Bill. If the Russians can have one house for everyone, what about our people? Now I want this new Minister to see that Mr. BirTa has got a house in every part of the the public sector handless its own world; and ~i!he common people have not got advertisements, not in the rotten way but in any houses to lay their hands onr Tt is very the real way as some good companies like important. ' Now these things have to be HAL, and others and not to give them to these stopped. No monopoly newspaper should be fellows who suck you. By then end of the allowed to have more than one extra edition; century advertising will be a fabulous no; it is sinful to give it to them. Mr. Goenka business and unless we control these people, did it that way. I fought with Mir— Morarji we cannot set our country right. My wife and I Desai, the then Deputy Pri-me Minister. I were pioneer M.Ps. who fought and asked him ' How did 'you allow these two compelled Government to advertise through paper Indian Express and Times of India to go Indian Advertising agencies, cent per cent to Ahmedabacl? You have killed the poor only. Please read those debates of the fifties Gujarati "newspaper people." The Gujaratis and sixties in this House. stand highest in the country amongst readers I thought my friend, Mr. Joshi, forgot about for dailies—not even Marathi journalism Gandhiji— he is a Gandhian to the narrow of though Marathi journalism is great. The his bone. Gandhiji was the greatest journalist Gujaratis stand second highest after of this land. What English he used to write in Malayalam, in the matter of reading daily Young India! I am proud that I had a papers. What about the Decan Herald in Ban- galore? Mr. Nijalingappa gave baksheesh to paragraph there when I had put up a fight on Mr. Birla and Mr. Goenka together. Mr. behalf of a man, a Muslim, who was hung up Goenka has got a big building near the on a tree, and beaten GanShiJi's. His successor Sachivalya there; he squeezes the local papers, was Valji Govind Desai, whose son. Cam- both English and Kannada. What is the use of bridgeman is in the PIB Department of the journalism in such a'situation? This must be- Government of India; and Valji Govind Desai stopped in this year 1971. The Prime Minister was a great man; he was my Nasik jail has got a massive mandate; she will go slowly; companion, after I was punished in jail for she will handle all these things with care. reporting the assault also. I said it long ago,—I am not afraid of anyone—the monopolists The next point Is about news agencies. have heaped money for the last 25 The PTI has t0 be a corporation. 931 R.S.—10. 291 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA] to Ministry of injorma.- 292 tion and Broadcasting [Shri Joachim Alva.] It is time that we stopped these big, big people. | I cannot find it now—wherein I said: 'You do It is time that, the PTI expands all over the not take any interest about the Harijans. But world. My wife and I saw their office; then hundreds of Harijan M.Ps. to speak by turn on Mr. Vats was running it well there in Moscow. the AIR'. What is being done in the AIR? We I would like to put their offices all over the talk of science and technology. Is it not our world. The PTI man in New York Raghavan is business to bring the lowest people to our doing a very good job- in Balu and Wilfred; level—it is not 1970— about housing they ran it well also. In other places also they conditions and other things. Nothmg is done. are all doing a good job. They must, be able to There was a very competent AIR News Editor, build up in such a way that the word of the Mr. Shivaram. When he was there, M.Ps. got Indian newspaper agency is always respected. full coverage. It is true that in the feature A And the rich man's representatives should not Day in Parliament they cover us but I do not be there in the Board because they put in their know why many are left off, because money and then they become directors. What somewhere the coverage goes elsewhere. I is this idea? The PTI and the UNI should be have seen all the 15 directives issued by the made into two corporations. And We shall not Minister in regard to News, and I must say permit anybody to run them; let us run the cor- from Rules 7 to 10 the news is well written on. porations ourselves because in the news what From 7 to 10 they are weTl-ful-filled. I you say or I say should be truly reported, not would like many more things the monopolistic view anyway. This is a very j to be done. Though I have nothing against the big hege. mony of monopoly in the present editor but I say this news ^coverage newspapers. In regard the INFA I think I have should be completely changed for the better not said enough about it. All kinds of privilege and to make it much more interesting than have been given to it. Now INFA had the what it is. I do not know whether I will be cheek to defame the Prime Minister through a covered today. Hindi paper. Durgadas forecast a poor majority for PM; yet he had the ctieek to ask the Defence Ministry to subscribe to a large number of copies and get as much money as As regards external publicity, Mem- possible from our Missions abroad. It is : bers go to foreign lands. I want to something which we cannot put up with. I told 1 know how many times the External you that I have got asked any thing from the i Affairs Ministry has ever asked the Government except that thing to which I am ; Members to speak. Miss Masani I put entitled and which I do not get advertisements. her up as a speaker for the first time I want to close my paper at the end of the year in her life at Bombay's Elphinston because I am not physically strong and my College in 1930 during the Salt Satya. children are not interested and they say: "Do graha. She never asked me any time not ask money from the rich people!" What to speak on the Radio. Foreign radios about this. How do you allow this thing, the have asked me but not in my own retired people to run papers, give them very country for a long time I was asked substantial money and then to attack the Prime late. Why do they not ask the present Minister? There are the things 3'ou have to j Members who go out to speak, and let stop. those speeches be passed on to the As regards the AIR I would like to say Chat External Affairs Ministry? It will be making a better use of their visits. The I wrote a long letter to Dr. Keskar. I have not a Secretary and so Members who have chance to go out should be asked to speak. I do not want to go out any more, I am not anxious to go as I have seen most of the world, but those who are going in the future should also get a chance to speak on the radio. 293 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry of Informa- 294 tion and Broadcasting As regards music, I must say that when I ceased of these worthless talks are not put on the air. to be a Member I wrote notes about the AIR daily. (Time bell rings). I have a long manuscript. My friend, Mr. So I am ending my speech; there are many Gujral, asked for it but I did not give it. Then it was more things I would like to have said. The asked by the Sunday Standard but I did not given it Mmistry of Information and Broadcasting is to them. T have got it. I must pay a Tribute to Dr.

295 Discussion on working ["RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry of Informa- 296 tion and Broadcasting

297 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry of Informa- 298 tion and Broadcasting

299 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry of Informa- 300 tion and Broadcasting

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. MANI): I would like to listen to all your arguments. But I want you to speak on the various issues which have been raised today. 301 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry of Informa- 302 tion and Broadcasting

SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Shri-mati Nandini Satpathy herself i.3 an image.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. MANI): Please go on, Mr. Rajnarain.

3 03 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] to Ministry of Informa- 304 tion and Broadcasting

SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: He will be better there. -305 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Informa- 306

SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Mr. Vice- Chairman, I shudder to think that after six years here, we haove to be in jail also together.

tion and Broadcasting tion and Broadcasting

309 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry ojlnjorma- 310 tion and Broadcaxtinn

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. MANI): Before Shri Bhupesh Gupta speaks, I wish to mention one thing. There are two speakers who have been sitting right through the debate and I would like Shri Bhupesh Gupta to bear in mind that his party has already got the chance and so he must confine his remarks within reasonable limits.

SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Sir, we are very glad that we have an opportunity to discuss the working of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. This is an m.portant Ministry

311 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA] to Ministry oj Informa- 312 tion and Broadcasting and it occupies a very important place in our easily identify them. Six or seven public life. If things will go well with this papers, the "Times of India" group, Ministry, things will be better elsewhere and, the "Indian Express" group, the if tilings go wrong with this Ministry, much "Hindustan Times" the 1'Statesmen', will be lost and it is definite. the "Amrita Bazar Patrika" and the Now, Sir, this i a vast subject and it is not "Jugantar", and the "AnaVida Bazar s Patrika" and the "Hindustan', ar by possible to discucs-s the various aspects of e and large the Press barons and they this matter. I should, however, like to deal with some of the important points or are the tycoons in the industry. Their number being small, it should be propositions or problems that have been easy for the Government to identify brought to the notice of tfate House in the course of the earlier speeches. Of course, my them, check them and see that they behave properly in consonance with friend, Shri Rajnarain, spoke on Shrimati the recommendations of the Press Indira Gandhi and the Golak Nath case and he wanted an image to be built. I would appeal to Commission, if not the Directive Prin ciples of the Constitution or other Shrimati Nandini Satpathy that if she wants to high ideals we have proclaimed 10 the be a good artist, she may think of building the world. To this list, Sir, we must add image of Shri Rajnarain. the PTI which virtually occupuw a Having said thai, Sir, let me know come to monopoly position and that again is the problems that we are facing in the world the hand-maid of these families, the of Press. Birla family, the Tata family, the Dalmia-Jain families the Goenka Sir, since the Press Commission made its family, the Mafatlal family, etc. and recommendation some 17 years ago—and at these are the firms which r°ally con the time I participated in the very first debate trol the PTI and they have their own on the Press Commission's recommendations, newspapers which are supposed to be { remember—what has happened in the the members of the PTI. Now, that is country is not the diffusion of ownership, but how it is happening. Behind the further concentration of ownership in the sign-board of the PTI, there are people who sit newspaper world so much so that a few there and act and they are actually the big families today control a whole chain of papers monopolists, the same people who are and, what is more, they have established their controlling the many sectors of our naional dominion or domination, whatever you may economy, industry, finance, banking and even call, in the newspaper world, from the point of the criminal underworld of economy, that is view of circulation, from the point of view of speculation hoarding and profiteering. ownership and in every respect. And, Sir, this has been one of the contributions of the Now Sir, let me take the question of present Congress Government that is to say, ownership. violation of the recommendations of the Press Commission. If the recommendations of the The first thing, Sir, is to do away with the Press Commission had been faithfully monopoly ownership of t.he press. This can implemented in toto, which we demanded here be done in many ways. There were some 16 years ago, perhaps the situation recommendations in the Press Commission would nov have been what it is today. Report which could have been implemented. Now you can amend the Company Law in Sir, figures have been given about the order to make it impossible for any of the monopoly ownership and I need not go into tycoons, industrial speculators, magnets, them. Actually, you can gentleman of tiie Dlack market trade and so on to become either directors, shareholders or owners of the press. It is possible to do so by amending the Company Law, if you like. The Company Law has such provisions as to who can be

313 discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry OTlHjurma- 314 tion and Broadcasting [Shri Bhupesh Gupta.] I directors and who cannot be directors. By cessity today. It is useles: (0 talk about the way of amendment you can say in some freedom of the Press, sanctity of the Press, provisions of the Company Law that in the dignity of the Press, honour of the Press. The case of a company which conducts newspapers black-marketeers the speculators are such are the categories which shall not be controlling it. Their treacheries have been eligible for holding any share in such concerns. revealed from time to time. Why can't we do It is quite possible to do so. If necessary, something here? Must we go after monopolies you amend the Constitution—certain relevant in all other spheres, and should not check provisions of it—in order to ensure this. Or the monopoly at this vital sector of our find out other ways of doing it. So I national life, which can corrupt it, which can think the Government should concentrate on pollute it, which can distort oar national vision this specific subject of diffusion of ownership and which certainly and clearly is against the with singleness of mind, with determination, working people and the ideals that we have and ways and means could be found. Sir, we declared for taking the country forwerd to a are amending the Constitution or we propose bright and joyou'; future? These are the to amend the concept of 'compensation' or we enemies of the people today. How are we propose to delete it from the Fundamental taking about growth with social justice? Rights chapter , of the Constitution which We declare before the world that we are for we shall again be in a position to amend. the common man and we are doing away with Why, can't we do this simple thing? 1 can't the privileges of the Princes, and yet we understand at all. If we are not doing it allow this corruption, degeneration and it is because the Government j has no mind to degradation of our public life. Why can't do so. Government has no mind to do so you take action? Are we so helpess? because the Press barons exert influence in No, we are not so helpless once we some ways, or elements within the ruling make up our mind to take action. party do so. Anyhow, they are in a position Therefore, I would urge upon the Government to blackmail men in authority, men in not to bother about other considerations. position. That's why this is not being done. I Take them, make up your mind that we 60 not think the Prime Minister or many shall at least start with these papers, i.e. members of the Government liked the way Times of India, Indian Express, Hindustan the Press behaved at the time of the Times, Hindu, Statesman, Amrita Bazar General Election or when the nation was and Ananda Bazar group of papers. It is fighting against the menace of right possible to do so. Start with it. Strike there reaction or the scurrilous articles written and the rest will follow gradually. Sir, against the Prime Minister. It is difficult for this is my suggestion with regard to that. me to believe that the Prime Minister had any liking for these kind of elements. After all, she is a human being. Now, what are the reasons then? Certain other considerations come in which had a tremendous power and pull on the Government exerted through the bureaucrats, some elements in the Congress party and per- haps even in the Council of Ministers. Otherwise, Sir, we can certainly take care of this monopoly press. The important thing is to deal with this thing. And it is a vital national ne- 315 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA] to Ministry of Injorma- 316 ^ tion and Broadcasting been an enquiry as to whercfrom the money some small section of people who are came and I am told that the house is fitted controlling the P.T.I., that remains to with an air-conditioning apparatus which if be explained. The mismanagement is you run in your house costs about Rs. 1,400. going on. Sir, there is a contractor, Is no so rich? How did he become so rich? an employee of Messrs. C. Lyall and This should be found out. Company. He has been employed as Again, you see in the P.T.I, that on the one a Supervisor of Journalist colony in hand there is victimisation of the workers and New Delhi by Mr. K. Subramanian, the employees, journalists and eminent persons ex-General Manager of the P.T.I., and like Mr. V. R. Vats, on the other hand, the Shri K. Subramanian is the Chairman management who control the press barons and of the Journalist colony. This is tycoons, sell themselves in order to amass what is happening. Find it out. This wealth and live in wealth and luxury. Sir, I am is how the P.T.I. is told that the present Manager also finances an behaving. References have been made with agency and is not honestly discharging his regard to the P.T.I. It does not write against duties. The General Manager stays in Delhi Birla. The members of the staff, I am told, are for 15 to 20 days in a month. He saves every- pressurised to write nothing that should reflect thing in a year. He stays in a flat of Birla and against any big monopolist in India. How can does not even pay rent of Rs. 35. He charges the General Manager proclaim that the P.T.I, daily allowance of Rs. 70 and uses the office is an independent organisation based car even for his family, buys the vegetables in the office car and this has been the permanent on the principles of objectivity 7 P.M. It has sold charge on the P.T.I. Enquire into it. Is it the itself to the Birlas. What is the remedy? How to standard? This is the standard of Mr. Goenka. save the Indian press from the big press agencies, He indulges in the blackmarketing and makes from the Clutches of monopoly capital? It should be badla and phatka transactions in Calcutta, uses gone into by the Government. Reference was made the money over Indian Express and uses that to the case of Mr. Vats. The matter should be taken Company with a view to carrying on his a little seriously. It is not just a question of an in- business of share cornoring, profiteering and dividual journalist being persecuted. I am surprised blackmarketing with the result that these press that when you were speaking, you did not refer to barons have launched a criminal case against this, though he belonged to your profession. You him in Calcutta. The P.T.T. is circulating are a brother journalist but forgot. You spoke for notes to the Members of Parliament. I have the PTI, about the PTI building, about the PTI land seen one of the notes. What about ths and about the PTI management but you *orgot to mismanagement that is "oing on? We find speak for a working journalist although you are one over Rs. 80 lakhs have come from the and you had been a working journalist but perhaps Government and vet is there any check on even editors are sometimes what shall I say, I how the money is going to be used? Some- would not say in your J case corrupted, but body says, interest is paid. If so. are vou eoing misguided. You -I may have been misguided I do to pav money to the Birlss, the Tatas and not know or perhaps it was a lapse on your part. Mr. others because they are payins? the interest? Vats is not just a journalist. I know him personally Monev is the •^vjnSs of the communitv. and I do not hide this fact. He is a fine man, Money in the L.I.C. or the State Bank of India excellent man as a human being. I have seen him ic the savings of the communitv. What here, I had seen him in Moscow when he was business you have got to give this money to correspondent of the PTI and doing an excellent job these people to be spent where there is so from the point of view of our national interest much mismanagement in this manner or for and fattening 317 Discussioii on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry 0} Informa- 318 tion and Broadcasting [Shri Bhupesh Gupta.) sun: A. K. CHATTERJEE: di a never did I hear any complaint ■against him point or order. The debate may be from the PTI Authorities, with whom also I continued tomorrow. had occasion to discuss the case of Mr. Vats. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. Never did I hear of any complaint. Here he sat MANI): Mr. Gupta, deal with the PTI and for 16 years and every Member who has come finish. in touch with him would confirm when I say that he is an excellent man, an honest man, a SHRI A. D. MANI: What shocked and sincere man imbued with very high ideals, distressed me was, many of us took up the besides being a good journalist. Today he has case of Mr. Vats with the Government and been transferred to Shil-long. Why? It is with Shrimati Sat-pathy and personally I took because he was carrying on trade union it up. Personally I took it up not because I activities. To-day he is the General Secretary have got any personal affiliation with Mr. Vats of the Working Jurnalists' Federation. He was but in public interest I took it up, in the also a prominent trade unionist in the PTI. For interests of journalism, in the interests of the that he is victimised. I have here some paper— trade union movement, in the interests above ■Current—which once reported that the of all of decency in public life. What General Manager, Mr. Ramachandran, when happened? They have done nothing. Am I to he went to Bombay, told that he had been understand that you cannot do anything when indulging in communist and other activities— 35 per cent of the revenue of the PTI comes the phrase used by the people who believe in from the Central Government? Do I have to Macarthyism and witch-hunting, the cowards believe that strong words from you would not who do not dare to own up their own crimes make Mr. Ramachandran and the Management and •want to pass off. everything in the name behave in a better way instead of persecuting of communists being there, and so on. After and victimising Mr. Vats and sending him to that, when it was published in the Current, he Shillong? Now he has not got his salary for sent a contradiction to the Current—this seven months; the matter is pending in some General Manager, Mr. Ramachandran. Do you court of law or something like that. Such is the know what comment the editor made after harassment. I am •mentioning this thing to publishing the contradiction? He said: 'Second dhow this is typical of the attitude of the big thoughts, or maybe the drone of the aeroplane business in all spheres which has been engine made our correspondent mishear what imported here also. you said, Editor.' Even the current editor who is by no means friendly to Mr. Vats and cer- SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: What about tainly would not be friendly if be thinks like subsistence allowance to him? Mr. Ramachandran that Mr. Vats is a communist or pro-communist and even this SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Can you gentleman had to make such comments about believe they can behave properly? It is a the remarks of Mr. Ramachandran who is question of norms. In the journalist world supposed to have made a statement as an after they are bringing in this kind of attitude thought. This was the reply given by the paper, which is displayed fcy these tycoons in other his friendly paper, with whom he had a industries. Are we to tolerate it? friendly chat. That was a slap on his face. That ■Government has pleaded helplessness; am I shows the reputation and tnoral character of to believe that if a strong word had gone from the man. the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting as an advice, as the strong desire of the Ministry headed by the Prime Minister of the country, Mr. Ramachand-

319 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971] of Ministry oflnforwa- 320 tioa and Broadcasting ran would have dared to ignore and to defy it? to forget things. I do not know whether I am not saying anything more than that. you are under the spell of the press barons, Either he had defied it or the sentiment has Mr. Goenka or Mr. Birla or Mr. Jain. I do not been expressed by them. I had an impres- not know;, but I do not suggest anything sion while talking to Shrimati Nandini but when I see you forget things I start, getting Satpathy and others that they were doubts. It was a clear recommendation and I sympathetic to the case of Mr. Vats but they want to know why that recommendation was unnecessarily felt helpless about it. We would not implemented. Let vu not »o into the past; like to hear her on this sub'ject, what she implement it now. What prevents; you thinks about it. This is an important question, from doing that? A Presidential order can and I have told this because of that reason. also be given to compel the PTI when you Now, Sir, PTI has become an institution of are paying them money on the ground that they scandal. Virtues are not to he trusted there in keep some foreign correspondents in some the Press Trust of India. It has become an other plates, some two or three-places. Most of them do nothing and we do not get any institution of scandal thanks to the mis- management of the Management and benefit. In fact, we should have our own defalcation and grabbing of funds by them. national foreign service which will publish Therefore PTI should be made into a news from our point of view. Surely, Sir, the Corporation. Sir, while you were speaking. . PTI cannot ignore a firm stand by the . Government. It is too much tied with the Government, too much under obligations to THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. the Government, and the Government can MANI): I was speaking as Mr. Mani from certainly make it fall in line with it. And I there. demand that victimisation of Mr. Vats to begin with must end and justice must be done to SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Mr. Mani in the him. Make it a point of honour. Everybody Chair is certainly better than Mr. Mani as here has expressed such sentiments and we speaker in the House but I do not know would like to see where they stand. I am whether he is better as Editor also but I have interested to find here again how the my doubts. What Mr. Mani ,said while diffusion of ownership will take place. You speaking was that the Press Commission have referred to the Press Council again and never recommended the diffusion of again. I was a Member of the Select ownership and that it should go to the Committee or the Committee which went shareholders and all that kind of thing. You into the management of the Press Council. said that PTI should be converted . . . There is a strong provision for going into the SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Not you; he. question of monopoly concentration and suggesting measures. Under that particular SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Yes; he said. section I am told that Mr. Ayyanagar has Our contention was that the recommendation appointed a Sub-Committee to look into mono- of the Press Commission was that no loans poly concentration. Whom do you think etc. should be given unless the PTI he has appointed? According to my transforms itself into a Corporation. You said information, it seems Mr. Durga Das, the it was a question of shareholders and. . . great democrat in the newspaper world is a THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. member of the committee, an angel of the freedom of the press Mr. Dur«a Das is to be MANI): Not you; Mr. Mani. an adornment on this committee. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: The Another is Mr. Kuldip Nayar, who was a recommendation was quite clear and I am today of Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri, now surprised that you have begun in the Statesman, a

321 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Inf or ma- 322 tion and Broadcasting [Shri Bhupesh Gupta.] scurilous writer, a professional Her in some SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: May I say respects, because in one of his books he that Mr. Durga Das when he wai a great has written lies. He is another member of columnist of the Hindustan Times used the committee. The third one, I am told, often write that the Communist Party is. . . should be banned? SHRI LAL K. ADVANJ: On a point of THE VICE CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. order, this is not proper. The person is MANI): Please conclude. not here to defend himself . . . SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: It does not finishing. This is what Mr. Raja-gopala matter. He writes in his books lies. . . Ayyangar said. The same gentleman, when he was sitting on the Bench, strucK SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: We cannot allow these things to be said here. He is down the price-page schedule. It was a a colleague of mine. recommendation of the Press Commission which we all welcomed. I SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: All right. should like to know why this man was He tells lies. chosen. I do not make any reflection on anybody but those who chose him, and i THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. am surprised to find such a man. At the D. MANI): You may convey your same time, the Indian Federation of meaning without these expressions. Working Journalists do not have any SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am a man representation. Some technical ground of the working-class. has been Sound to keep them out of it, THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. and yet in the Committee when we MANI): Why not try to be a discussed it, it was again and again parliamentarian? stressed that they should find proper representation on it. Nobody is there. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: You are Therefore, I suggest that we disown the the editor of the Hitavada, a sophisti- Press Council or reconstitute it. How can cated paper. I am only tha editor of a there be a Press Council without having working-class paper. The working-class any representative of the working does not mince matters, does not believe journalists or the Federation of Working in sophistry. It uses blunt language and Journalists which is a well-established speaks from the heart and I am speaking and respected body of journalists in our from my heart. I submit to your ruling. country and which commands confidenc2 He tells lies, call him a falsifer or some amongst a large number of journalists in such thing. These are the people to look the whole land and in every State? This into the question. It is just like is also another aspect of the matter. appointing Mr. Dalmia to look into the THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. Birla affairs. Perhaps something will D. MANI): Please conclude. come out of it because of their mutual jealousies. Mr. Mundhra would be SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; I am appointed to go into the affairs of Mr. concluding. I think I have said enough. Mundhra's son. This is an abomination. Now, these are matters to be gone into. Ban that committee. I am surprised that Finally, Sir, before I sit down, I do not Mr. Raja-gopala Ayyangar, supposed to know what my friend, Shrimati Nandini be the Chairman of the Press Council, Satpathy, is jjoing to say. This is a matter while briefing the press on the committee which should be seriously considered. has said that there is no existence of Why? Firstly, we are discussing it after monopoly in the press in our country. the election. Secondly, the Minister in 0I Wonderful man. charge is a person who is not ^y 931 R.S.—11.

323 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Informa- 324 tion and Broadcasting the Prime Minister of the country but also one Bhupesh Gupta did not say anything who made the solemn pledges of taking action about the All India Radio. We are against such people or against such not satisfied with the manner in which arrangements. Here as Minister directly in the All India Radio is functioning. It charge, she should set an example in her must be given proper direction, a clear Ministry by taking action, by carrying out the purpose and a mission to serve. They diffusion of ownership, at least in these few must also make up their minds. You papers which I have named and by seeing that cannot mark time. The All India tho PTI is converted into a corporation imme- Kadio should either help the process diately. It is quite possible. That should be of change and radicalisation of our done. All the country will support her. The public life and popular forces, elevat entire journalists will support you. And ing culture and other activities of particularly, the newspaper readers, all of life to a higher level or it must stag te them, will support you. S Ps should be taken nate and ultimately go down. 1 under towards that. stand that there are too many group m Now, Sir, with regard to the other matters, I ings the All India Radio. That do not wish to say anything. Small papers and should stop. With respect to my others should be helped. The small papers and friend, too many RSS people are in other medium papers especially, they suffer. the AH India Radio working, csoeci- Advertisements and other things are going to ally in the Hindi section. One of the the rich papers and most of the rich papers Hindi news agencies is virtually an really are the product of the Congress regime. RS3 news agency. What are you Every single rich paper in the country, the going to do about it? The two news monopoly Press, i the product of the agencies in Hindi should be amalga s mated, you make them one; sue that Congress. They are the brain child of the Congress rule, if I may say so. Therefore to- they are also democratised and pro day reverse that course. I am not asking the perly run. Help them to do so, State to take over the newspapers. But let the Similarly, the AIR artists and others freedom of the Press be established. Along in the various States should be utilis with living reality, that freedom must exist, ed properly. Corruption is there at whereby the journalists with a clear many of the centres of the All India conscience and independence of thought can Radio and the result is that artists work and use that forum undeterred by who are honest and genuine, they monopoly dictation, without fear of sutler. Such a thing should not hap victimisation and other kinds of pressures pen and steps should be taken towards from high quarters. And one of the ways to this end. All India Radio's coverage of ensure such a thing is to see that the mass actions and mass move concentration of ownership is disbanded once ments should be given in and for all and that ownership is shared by all a better way, and the the Pressmen themselves. This should be coverage should be good, neat and ob done. jective. The struggles of the masses against monopoly capital, against land With regard to the other things, I demand a lords, against the enemies of society thorough inquiry into the PTI affairs. and social justice whether they are Finally, before I sit down, witn regard to the PTI baron^ or otner Press barons the All India Radio and other things, I would and other things, all these should be say one or two words. Otherwise, you will given publicity. Do I understand complain that that if I make a condemnatory state ment against the PTI management for having victimised Mr. Vats it would be properly publicised, it would be properly broadcast by the All India Radio? I should like to know. These things should be gone into. Mi'SK and other forms of art also should be mobilised. All India Radio requires much more attention and I am sure 325 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Informa- 326 tion andBroadcasting [Shn Bhupesh Gupta.] SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Do not bother. Shrimati Nandini Satpathy do .s not lack They will send you to jail again. goodwill. But she must also see that things SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: My are done and done with a new outlook. You point is this. Activise the democratic mus; change the entire way of things having masses on the television; the workers been done in the past. We want a break from must appear. Employees must ap the past. Therefore, appoint advisory bodies, pear. The peasants must appcar not utilise the journalists, artistes, writers, men of only in certain production activities culture, men of literature and public men who but also when they are carrying on are imtued with some high ide.-i'.s, who are struggle against the vested interest. given proper direction and who are qualified This thing also should be shown. I to do so instead of holding on to the rotten will, therefore, suggest that when stuff that is there. I am not meaning here the there is demnstration—(Time Bell secretarial staff, people who are there around rings)—by peasants, workers, unem the All India Radio centres at different places. ployed and others. There should be arrangement to show that demonstra THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. tion on the television. Demonstra MANI): Thank you. tions of the working people should be SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Finally, about televised so that Members of Parlia television. I do not want to say very much ment can also see that. This is one about television. We cannot afford television. of the suggestions. I do not wish to . . take much of your time. I do hope the Government will now see that due THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. weight is given to the suggestions MANI): Mr. Bhupesh G>ipta, the audience is that we have made with regard to melting away. the P.T.I. Suggestions about the monopoly press are practical sugges SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: You are tions and can be implemented hearing. That is enough. here and now, if necess ary, with the some minor SHRI KRISHAN KANT: He *s forced to changes in the existing law, and cer hear. tainly, they should be accepted by the Government. I do hope that the SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Mr. Gupta, if Prime Minister of the country, who television is expanded and 'is production is happens to be the Minister-in-charge, increased the econor.-y of hir/c-rcale will set an example by adopting these production will affect the pr'.cer and they will measures in her own Ministry, mak be halved. ing the Ministry an instru ment of democratization of the THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. 0. press and taking the press out of the MANI): Please do net interrupt. fangs of the vicious monopoly octopus. Thank you. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: » am not going into this question. W.e find television THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE installed in the Central tTa'j. to show the MINISTRY OP INFORMATION AND Davis Cup matches. I have no objection. I am BROADCASTING (SHRIMATI NANDINI not a tennis player. I played only in jail and SATPATHY): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I am always my score was the lowest. grateful to the hcn'ble Members who have participated in the discussion in this Ministry THE VICE-CHAIRMAN vSHRI A. of Information and Broadcasting . . . D. MANI): All right. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: And for making the people sit late. SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: Of course, for sitting, on till late. I am 327 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA ] of Ministry of Informa- 328 tion and Broadcasting particularly grateful to those hon'ble and medium newspapers. Sir, this latter Members who have stayed till late hour. feature was noticed by the Press Commission Sir, quite a few suggestions were made by and the Press Commission made some the hon'ble Members. Some nf these suggestions to broadbase the ownership of suggestions are those on which we have newspapers and to eliminate unfair competition. already started action. But I would like to Some of the hon. Members have referred to assure the House that some of the suggestions these recommendations of the Press made by hon' ble Members will definitely get Commission. I need not go into the details of out consideration and we will try to see how that, but I would like to mention here that best we can implement them. many of these suggestions, by and large, were addressed to the press rather than to the Govern- SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Which ment. These suggestions, however, have Members? not been implemented by those who actually own the press and control the newspapers. SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: I do Therefore, I feel that the Government has to not know whether it will be possible for me to see how the problem can be dealt with and how g.o to all the points that have been mentioned the press can be made more responsive to the by the hon' ble Members. But I will try to cover views and the hopes and aspirations of the large as many points as possible. Sir, one of the most masses of the people in our country. This important problems and one which has received matter is receiving the earnest consideration of a good deal of attention both in the House to- the Government at this moment and 1 would day and earlier also outside, is the ownership like to assure the House that in consultation and control of newspapers. Just now, the hon. with the Department of Company Affairs, the Member, Mr. Bhupesh Gupta, said so much Government proposes to introduce suitable about the diffusion of ownership nd about a legislation for this purpose shortly. In the making freedom of the press a living reality. I meantime, however, even apart from the fully agree with him that if at all there is structure of the press, the Government is freedom, then we should see that freedom of examining further how its accepted policy the press must be a living reality. Sir, while on of canalising advertisements more and more the one hand, there has been a reference to the to the small and medium news-nnpers can be monopolistic tendencies in the press, on the made more effective Sir, some of the hon. other hand, some of the hon. Members here Members have spoken about the small nd have made this point and have argued also that a medium newspapers and have also suggested there is no accepted definition of tho term how these small and medium newspapers can 'monopoly' and have asked whether the pres s be helped. To help these small and medium can be accused of displaying that sort of newspapers, the Government, had also tendency. Sir, I shall not enter into a legal expressed its intention earlier t set up a discussion as to what constitutes a 'monopoly'. 0 newsnaper finance corporation. If the hon. The fact, however, remains that several of the Members remember, this newspaper finance leading1, newspapers in the country are corporation Bill was introduced in the last controlled by large business houses whose Parliament session and with the dissolution of interests and points of view these newspapers the Lok Sabha, that Bill lapsed and it has to reflect more than the views of the masses of the be re-introduced. I would like to tell the hon. peoole. A j second feature flowing from this House that we are going to re-introduce it. fact. is that some of these leading news- f Some of the honourable i Members, papers have resources behind them which including Shri Bhupesh 1 Gupta, have actually enable them to enter i into unfair spoken about news agen- competition with the small | 329 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry of Informa- 330 tion and Broadcasting [Shrimati Nandini Satpathy.] cies. I would like to say that the SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: .. .at problem of news agencies is allied v;itn this moment it is not possible for me to say that of the press though the functions anything further about the PTI. But I would which the news agencies perform are Jike to mention one thing which has been distinct from those of the newspapers. mentioned by the honourable Shri Bhupesh The problem of ownership and control, Gupta and that is regarding the journalist however, is much the same as for some working in the PTI. He mentioned about Mr. newspapers. There is, however, an Vats. I would like to say personally I know added need for news agencies. There his case and I hope the people concerned will is need in our country to develop an look into it and do something which will Indian international news agency solve this problem. Most of the points raised which will be able to by honourable Members are absolutely interpret the news and views of the world common. First I will deal with the important objectively to our country and to project the points. image of India in the t..-ue perspective abroad. Such a news agency is at present lacking and One point mentioned by different Members we continue to see the world through the eyes was regarding the constitution of the Press of foreign news agencies. Our image abroad is Council. I would like to mention here that "also projected not so much by us but by after the constitution of the Press Council a others who are in their own way interested in new and important stage in the development interpreting our views to the world. Here I of the press in this country has come. The would like to mention about the point which idea was to make the press function more and has been raised by the honourable Shri more in a self-regulatory manner. Recently, Bhupesh Gupta and also by some other however, there have been criticisms both Members f»nd that is regarding the PTI. Not about the functions of the Press Council and only during the last discussion in Lok Sabha, about its constitution. The points raised have but many a time while replying to a number of been taken note of by the Government. The questions we were saying that this Government, however, continues to be of the recommendation of the Press Commission to view that the freedom of the press can be best turn the PTI into a statutory corporation is assured by the members of the press taking being considered, it is being examined by the upon themselves, to the extent possible, the Government and now I would like to repeat . responsibility to ensure objectivity, fairness . . and responsiveness of the press in a developing society, and that sort of SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Repeat it, responsibility can best be entrusted to a body repeat it. representative of all the elements which constitute the press. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: It is under active consideration of the Government. Then I would like to come to the film SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY* Yes, industry. Mr. Alva and some other honourable Mr. Krishan Kant says it is under active Members mentioned about the censor in films consideration of the Government. Of course, and also about foreign films. You yourself it is under active consideration of the Mr. Vice-Chairman, also spoke about the Government. I would like to tell honourable import of American films I would like to say Members that . . . that no such decision has been taken to stop the import of American films. But what the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I hope only Minister for yours a'nd Shrimati Indira Gandhi's activity in this field will not be the same as that of your predecessors. 331 Discussion on working [ RAJYA SABHA] of Ministry of Informo- 332 tion and Broadcasting Foreign Trade has said earlier in the Lok mendation of the UPSC. So, there was no Sabha is that the agreement that the question of doing anything in an, unfair way. Government of India had entered with a group SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: A senior officer of American film association people has not yet been renewed. It expired on 30th June and was superseded. how we should proceed about the matter is yet SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: This to be considered. I would like to assure my happens many times. When the names go to hon. Mend Shri Joachim Alva that we are the UPSC, they decide about somebody and keeping a constant watch over the censorship that is accepted by the government. In this and it will be much easier for us after the case also this was the only thing done by the recommendations of the Khosla Committee government. Why they did not consider the are implemented .. . senior officer, I cannot say. But this much I SHRI BHUPESH-GUPTA: Initially why can tell the House that nothing unfair has was not the film on Lenin and others been done in this .case. released? Now, of course, it was released. I would now like to touch upon some of the THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. points in the broadcasting side of the MANI): You put a question on that. Ministry. As the hon. House is aware, we are trying to cover as much area and population as SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: I possible during the Fourth Plan by our appreciate the concern expressed by Shri Alva medium wave transmitter and we hope by the about foreign films and censorship. Once end of the Fourth Plan 89 per cent of the Khosla Committee's recommendations are country's population will be served by All implemented, it. is easier for us to attend to India Radio stations. In regard to our external this problem and see that we get cleaner and services, while our objective is to make the healthier films. voice of India heard in as many countries abroad is possible, we naturally want to attach THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. greater importance to our neighbouring MANI): A point was made about AIR being countries. Sir, Mr. Krishan Kant has converted into a corporation. mentioned, during his speech, about the superpower transmitters and also pleaded for SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: Yes, high-power transmitters in Ladakh and the sir. This is about the information side of the Andamans. I would like to say, Sir, that a Ministry. I would like to mention one point medium-wave station has already been here. Shri Advani in his speech mentioned established in Ladakh at Leh and a more about the appointment of PiO and there he powerful transmitter cannot be established at quoted one editorial or something from the this stage there because of inadequacy of National Herald i.nd said that there was power supply. We are, therefore, setting up a difference in the government and certain high-power medium-wave transmitter at unfair means were adopted while appointing Srinagar where power supply is available. the PIO. I would like to say that no unfair means ever were adopted and I would like to tell the hon. Member and the House that this SHRI OM MEHTA: Very good. We have was done according to the recommendation of been compensated for sitting late. the UPSC. It was decided by a committee SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: headed by the Chairman of the UPSC and Later on, when power supply improves, we government accepted the recom- will think of having a high-power transmitter there. Sir, the

333 Discussion on working [ 3 AUG. 1971 ] of Ministry-of Informa- 334 ttora and Broadcasting [Shrimati Nandini Satpathy] the people. While, therefore, the Government axe considering reorganisation of the AIR to question of setting up a powerful station in delegate the required measure of the Andamans has been examined. A super- administrative autonomy to the organisation, power transmitter will not reach the whole of Government have been unable to agree with Indonesia and Malaysia. It will cover these the recommendation of the Chanda countries only partially. We shall,, therefore, Committee that it should be made an consider whether, having regard to our autonomous corporation. resources and priorities, a scheme for establishing a powerful transmitter in the Andamans for broadcasting our External Services should be included in the Fifth Plan. Sir, one of the hon. Members said Sir, he has also mentioned about the super- something about the expansion of television. I power transmitter. We have, as the hon. House think, Mr. Arjun Arora mentioned about it. I is aware, two superpower transmitters, one at would like to mention here that television is in Calcutta and other at Rajkot and they are a very preliminary stage in our country now catering to the countries outside. Sir, hitherto and it is, as you are aware, only in Delhi. But our External Services were broadcast on short we have plans for the development of the wave. Now it has become possible to Delhi Centre and we hope that by relaying; supplement these short-wave broadcasts with Delhi television to a station at Mussouiie, the medium-wave broadcasts to the neighbouring Delhi Centre will serve a much wider area countries. Shri L. N. Misra is not. here. He than it doss at present in Haryana and West mentioned about the Chanda Committee U.P. In addition, from 1972, we hope to be Report and some other Members, Mr. Advani, able to start television at Bombay and as far as I remember, also mentioned about the Srinagar, Bombay with a relay station at Chanda Committee and turning the ' All-India Poona, and three other television projects are Radio into a corpoi-aion. under active implementation and it is our hope that by the end of the Fourth Plan, in addition

Sir, I have already mentioned and I want to to Delhi, Bombay and Srinagar television say now that the question of reorganisation of centres will be functioning and also the the All-India Radio has been given a good Calcutta, Madras and Lucknow ones. deal of attention after the Chanda Committee submitted its Report. Sir, as the House is aware, the Chanda Committee had re- Now I come to the point that the hon. commended that the AIR should be made an Member Shri Arjun Arora made. We propose autonomous corporation. While the to have a television station at Lucknow with a Government agrees that an organisation like relay centre at Kanpur. He mentioned in his the All-India Radio cannot function without a speech that it was decided to have a te! great deal of administrative and financial ^vision centre at Kanpur in the beginning, autonomy and they are in favour of and some promise was made by some ex- reorganising the AIR on that basis, Ministers, Mr. K. K. Shah or Mr. Satyanarain Government are unable to accept the view Sinha or Mr. Gujrai about it and that now that an autonomous corporation controlling there is a shift in the policy. The assurances the broadcasting policy would be better able given by the Ministers are not obsorved, he to reflect the needs, aspirations and views of said. But I would like to say here that there this country than an organisation controlled was no such assurance and no such firm de- by the elected representatives of cision was taken to locate it at Kanpur. . .

335 Discussion on working [RAJYA SABHA] of Ministry of Informa- 336 tion and Broadcasting SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Does she mean to Here I would like to say one thing that it is say that Ministers in the Government make very unfortunate that the hon. Member has public declarations without taking a firm thought it fit to read motive in this decision. It decision? I hope that is not so. is not fair to bring in officers' names or anybody's name in this context. It is not a THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. good practice, because the decision was token MANI): This is a matter of argument. She is absolutely on professional considerations. replying on factual basis. Don't interrupt the proceedings. SHRI KRISHAN KANT: What about making some arrangement, whether at SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: I Amritsar or at Jullundur, which are covered want only to state the fact that no firm by Lahore television. . . decision was ever taken in this matter. It may be that any of them might have stated that SHRI OM MEHTA: Why does not he talk they would examine the question. . . about Haryana? SHRI ARJUN ARORA: No, no. They SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: That made an unequivocal statement. is the point which has drawn the attention of the Government, and we are quite aware of SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: We the situation there and we have already sent a found that one transmitter located between proposal. If we can have a TV station during Kanpur and Lucknow could not serve both this Plan in Punjab, it will be able to solve the cities. It became necessary to have two this problem. transmitters; one of them will be located at Lucknow and the other at Kanpur. SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE; What about Calcutta? Next question is the location of studio for production of programmes. The Government SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: You felt that Lucknow was a more suitable know the position about Calcutta. location. This studio will be fed with both the THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. transmitters at Lucknow and at Kanpur. MANI): Do not cross-examine her. SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: The So far as the development of TV network in the country is concerned, as I have already land position was difficult. Now they have told the House, we shall not establish more decided to give the land and as soon as We than ons studio centre in a State. TV pro- secure the land we will start the work there. grammes production is a very expensive thing, Mr. Advani has mentioned about the AIR as the hon. Members know. The programmes staff artistes. The position is that staff artistes from the studio will be relayed over the TV already enjoy most ot the benefits which are Transmitters that may be set up in the State or available to Government servants. They are the region. Lucknow in this case is meant for employed on long-term contract. He said that th; whole State. Lucknow is also the capital of anybody can be thrown out at any time if they the U.P. State . . . do hot satisfy their immediate bosses, or SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Kanpur will have something like that in Hindi. I would like to at least four times TV receiving sets than say that these staff artistes are employed on Lucknow. long-term contract. SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: What is tlie SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: I objection about bringing them on a par with would like to say that once it is established at the other Government servants? Lucknow it will serve the whole State.

337 Discussion on working [S AUG. 1971] of Ministry of Informa- 338 ! tion and Broadcasting

.SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: I am good broadcaster; I have no objection. But coming to that; I will tell you what the what about juniors? difficulty is. This point has been discussed SHRI ARJUN ARORA; She was a very with them but they are not unanimous on this good broadcaster. She should be brought back question. Some want to be made Government as a part-timer. servants but others do not agree with this. Unless this question is decided it is very SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; She left for a difficult for the Government to take any bigger job for mon;y. Now, when you bring action in the matter. such people back as part-timer? the juniors As I have said, they are given most of the naturally will have a grievance. You should facilities that are enjoyed by the Government train up the cadre. servants. Leave and other concessions given to them are also the same as those applicable to THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. the Government servants. One point of MAND: The Minister will take note of the difference is that they do not get pension but point. are entitled to contributory provident fund. We

are at present considering certain proposals for SHRI JOACHIM ALVA: We want our revision of their fee structure as has been very women announcers to pronounce like r, kindly mentioned by one of the hon. Members. Indians—as the Prime Minister d es, as the We hope to issue final orders in the near hon. Minister does—or as the Pakistanis or future. This will achieve rationalisation of the Ceylonese women announcers. They have all fee structure of the staff artistes and establish a got one Asian account. Our men announcers correspondence between fee-scaled and salary- I'-ve always been excellent. scaled person;, doing work of a similar nature. Further changes in the staff artistes system will SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA- This question be considered after this revision of the fee should be looked into, structure has become effective and also, when some other reorganisation measures are taken THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A D. up. MAIS 1): You will take note of it. An hon. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am told some Member mentioned about the Yuv Vani of these people who broadcast in English had programme. While appreciating the left AIR and now they have taken up jobs in programme he said that this should be done by various concerns and some of them now like the youth and for the youth. I would like to say to come back as part-timers for broadcasting. I that the Yuv Vani programme is actually done do not know what this thing is. That has been by the youth and for the youth. The whole brought to my notice. thing is managed by them. Then a point was raised about the AIR that there is personalised SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: T publicity there and the PM and other Ministers have no idea. Except those who are invited to were bought in. 1 would like to jay that the All India Radio for occasional talks I do not AIR as the matter of policy deliberately know whether anybody who was appointed deofflcialised news. Even when policy has taken up any job' outside. At this moment statements are made by Ministers they take I have no information. enough precaution not to take the name of the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: That is Roshan Ministers unless it is absolutely necessary. Menon or somebody. She had left it and joined some Sita Travels, and I was told that SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; I cannot catch she is now trying to come as a part-timer. you. That is to say, if they refer to you, they She is a would just say 'Minister for I. & B.' 339 Discussion on working [RAJYA SABHA] to Ministry of Informa- 340 tion and Broadcasting

SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: If it you feel more information is required table a is absolutely necessary, they ca\i gay I. & B. question and seek more information, Minister but otherwise the policy is being SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Is there is any stated. policy and whether there is any criterion for SHRI LAL K. ADVANI:'There is no poiht selection of a person? They cannot put a man to in omitting the name. The objection is to the broadcast, who is a communalist. The country is programme of Spotlight. secular. SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: Put Mr. j SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: I Gupta. have the facts about it. If the House is willing. I shall give them. I will read out the names of SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; Mr. Gupta the gentlemen who have participated in the does not want if. Spotlight programmes. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. J C. MANI): I will ieii the Minister MANI): This question has been asked in the • not to answer arguments but to pro- House and answered. She can proceed with I ceed. the points and try to conclude the proceedings. I It is about 8 o' clock. SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY; | So all these criticisms tii.il have been SHRIMATI NANDINI ''ATPATHY: I | made about the AIR that it is having a would mention that he has said that some of personalised publicity qnd is trying to build up— the people who are invited for this Spotlight a'nd Shri Raiaarain said they are trying to build programme are biased or they belong to some up the image particular group or my Party. [ would men tion of the Prime Minister—are not correct. it and I will read the few names of people who j I think it is not necessary tor the AIR nybody have participated at different times in different else to build up the image of the PM of this programmes: country. The image has already been made and the people of the country know about it ?nd I do not think the AIR has anything to do with the Shri Pran Chopra buiding up of further image of the PM. Shri B. P. Dutt j SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE; Please do not further it. Shri Aniruddha Gupta SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: Shri Ranjit Roy of Hindustan I We will never do thai. Mr. Chstter- Standard. jee, by his speech, by ills attack, is trymg to build up the in.age of the Shri Barim Haider 1 PM more and more and that is why Shri Abdul Husain i we thank him very much. Shri Dilip Mukherjee of Times of India SHRI BHUPESH GLTTA: The and so on. Syndicate, tha (Jan Sangh and the J Swatantra alliance has besm the grea-I test SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Most of them image builder in this country. are not youngmen. SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: With SHRIMArrT NANDINI SATPATHY: I do not this I would like to wind up the discussion. It di (jute it but he says that belong to a particular has been mentioned again and agam that the group. AIR is only n u t t i n g up the views of the Govern-i ment or the Ruling Party and so on THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. and so forth but some of the Members from my rAND: The question has been Party have alreadj' complained that the time answered. Arising from the debate if that my Party

341 Discussion on working [3 AUG. 1971 j of Ministry of Informa- 342 tion and Broadcasting [Shrimati Nandini Satpathjr.] Members get is much less than the time the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; I hope there Members of the Opposition get and I think to won't be political discrimination in it. some extent this allegation is correct. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. SHRI ARJUN ARORA: Correct this. 8 P.M. MANI): No, no. Let her continue please. SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: So SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: Sir, I there is no question of AIR having any sort of think I have covered almost all the points partial outlook as it has been suggested by made by hon. Members and the suggestions some of the Members. On the other hand, it is made by hon. Members will be borne in mind. too liberal and is trying to project the true SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: What interest democratic attitud of the country. e we have in yoasr Ministry; it is 8 o'clock and SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA; This is not we are sitting. correct that her parly Members do not get SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: time because some of us here make news. Sir, Thank you very much foi that. suppose you marry it is not news but th» v moment you divorce it is news. SHRI LAL ADVANI: Sir ...... THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. MANI): We are not going into a general MANI): No, no. discussion. The Minicter may proceed with the other p lilits please. SHRI LAL K. ADVANI; The right of reply? SHRIMATI NANDINI SATPATHY: Mr. Krishan Kant has said about publicity THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI A. D. regarding Bangla D

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