Minutes of the 3rd Meeting of the Community Building and Social Services Committee of the City District Council

Date : 24 March 2016 (Thursday) Time : 2:30 p.m. Venue : KCDC Conference Room

Present: Chairman: Mr. NG Po-keung (left at 4:35p.m.) Vice-Chairman: Mr. YUE Chee-wing, Admond Chairman: Members: Ms. LEUNG Yuen-ting Mr. CHO Wui-hung Ir Dr CHENG Lee-ming (left at 5:00p.m.) Mr. NG Fan-kam, Tony Mr. LAM Tak-shing Mr. LAM Pok, Jimmy Mr. YEUNG Chun-yu, Ronald (left at 4:05p.m.) Mr. HE Huahan Mr. YANG Wing-kit (left at 4:47p.m.) Mr. KWAN Ho-yeung, Roger Ir. CHEUNG Yan-hong, MH Mr. LAI Kwong-wai (left at 4:13p.m.) Mr. SIU Leong-sing, Terence (left at 4:13p.m.) Mr. LUK King-kwong (left at 4:35p.m.) Mr. SIU Tin-hung Mr. PUN Kwok-wah

Secretary: Mr. IP Wai-kong, Eddie Executive officer I (District Council), District Office

Absent: Mr. LO Chiu-kit

In Attendance: Ms. IP Yuk-mei, Eunice Senior Liaison Officer (District Liaison), Office Ms. CHAN Wai-chun Assistant District Social Welfare Officer (Kowloon City / Yau Tsim Mong) 2

Attendance by Invitation Item 1 Mr Stephen SUI, JP, Deputy Secretary for Labour and Welfare Ms Jade LAI Political Assistant to Secretary for Labour and Welfare

Item 2 Mr Anthony NG Chief Executive Officer, Financial Dispute Resolution Centre Ms SIU Fung-ching, Communications Manager, Financial Dispute Resolution Centre Ms SHEK Lok-tung Communications Officer, Financial Dispute Resolution Centre

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Opening Remarks

The Chairman of the Community Building and Social Services Committee (CBSSC) welcomed all Members and departmental representatives to the meeting.

2. Before entering into the discussion, the Chairman requested Members to note that if the matters to be discussed involved conflict of interests with their property rights, profession or investment, they should make a declaration prior to the discussion so that the Chairman would consider if it was necessary to ask the members concerned to exit from the meeting during the discussion or voting. Furthermore, according to Section 36(2) of the Kowloon City District Council Standing Orders (Standing Orders), since there were 19 Members in the CBSSC, once the number of Members present fell below 10, he would announce a suspension of discussion.

Public Engagement Exercise on Retirement Protection (CBSSC Paper No. 05/16)

3. The Chairman welcomed Mr Stephen SUI, JP, Deputy Secretary for Labour and Welfare and Ms Jade LAI, Political Assistant to Secretary for Labour and Welfare to the meeting.

4. Mr Stephen SUI, Deputy Secretary for Labour and Welfare explained to Members about the background of the public consultation on retirement, pointing out that the Chief Executive in his election platform had stated to address the elderly poverty issue, and study how to introduce short, medium and long-term measures to improve the retirement protection system. The related public consultation exercise was carried out by the Commission on Poverty. The Government respected different positions of the members of the Commission on Poverty, and different opinions had been included in the consultation paper. He then briefed Members that Hong Kong was facing a number of challenges including a declining birth rate, aging population, economic growth affected by a shortage of workforce, and structural fiscal problems, as well as the existing pillars of retirement security.

5. Mr Jimmy LAM requested that the universal retirement protection scheme should be implemented as soon as possible in return for the contributions of the elderly to Hong Kong over the many years, and said asset test should not be included in the scheme concerned. He thought that introducing an asset vetting mechanism would not only increase administrative cost, but also would lead elderly people worried about exceeding the prescribed limit to hide their assets, thereby possibly violating the law. He also enquired how the government would use the earmarked $50 billion.

6. Ir Dr CHENG Lee-ming supported the implementation of the universal retirement protection scheme without asset test, believing that given the serious wealth disparity and social inequality, universal retirement protection should not be linked with other government spending. He added that in the past years Hong Kong had recorded a fiscal surplus, so it had sufficient ability to provide the additional expenditure of more than $20 billion each year for the above-mentioned scheme. However, he also suggested that the government raise profits tax and salaries tax and introduce the sales tax based on “user pays” principle to increase revenues.

7. Mr Roger KWAN said that the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong (DAB) considered that the elderly were facing various difficulties in life and in 2011 proposed a three-tier “retirement protection pension” programme. Through an assets and means test mechanism, the elderly in need could obtain a large amount of pension, while the elderly people with more economic difficulties were able to apply for comprehensive social security assistance (CSSA). On top of benefiting all the elderly people, the programme could also utilise resources in a fairer and more focused manner. The DAB supported the early implementation of the universal retirement protection scheme.

8. Mr Admond YUE supported the implementation of a universal retirement protection scheme without assets test, but considered that the government should explore the feasibility of levying the “user pays” sales tax for both rich and poor as soon as possible to ensure a steady stream of financial revenues.

9. Mr LAM Tak-shing said different public opinion polls showed that the government should implement the universal retirement protection scheme as soon as possible. He also made a number of suggestions, including promoting the silver market, extending the retirement age of civil servants, establishing experience sharing platforms for retirees, as well as training the retired for them to continue to contribute to society.

10. Mr Tony NG said the Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF) generated a low rate of return, and coupled with high administrative costs, failed to provide desired retirement protection. He advised the government to implement a universal retirement protection scheme without assets test to cope with a growing elderly population. In addition, he pointed out that the government had failed to accurately estimate its income and expenses for many years, and therefore recommended that the proposal to centrally provide a monthly subsidy of more than $3,000 should be re-examined, and the amount of subsidy should be determined depending on the financial position each year.

11. Mr YANG Wing-kit supported the implementation of the universal retirement protection scheme and suggested introducing a more lenient assets test. He added that it could be combined with the existing old age allowance (commonly known as “fruit money”) arrangements. Elderly persons aged 65 or above were eligible for subventions, but elderly people who were willing to undergo the assets test could receive a higher amount of subvention, while those aged above 70 should be exempt from the test.

12. Mr LAI Kwong-wai said that the Hong Kong Association for Democracy and People's Livelihood (ADPL) did not agree to introduce assets test for the universal retirement protection scheme, saying that the scheme was not intended for poverty relief. He moved on to say that based on the experience of implementing the old age allowance scheme, not all eligible elderly people would submit applications. And after the implementation of the universal retirement protection scheme, the CSSA expenditure would also decrease. He therefore considered that the spending estimated by the government was too high. In addition, he believed that larger enterprises had the responsibility to bear the related expenses, and suggested raising the profits tax rate to 1.9% for enterprises earning $10,000,000 or more.

13. Ir CHEUNG Yan-hong stated that the debate over the universal retirement protection scheme had led to a rift between different sectors of the society. He believed that the scheme concerned should cover the middle class, allowing them to put the money for donation or other purposes at their own wills. He supported the proposal of Mr YANG Wing-kit to grant the related allowances to people aged above 65 and those over the age of 70 under a tiered system, and to implement the plan as soon as possible.

14. Mr LUK King-kwong said he attached great importance to universal retirement protection and recognised its complexity, and recommended that the government conduct extensive consultation with different sectors of the community, including accountants and other professionals. He believed that the universal retirement protection scheme should be subject to a lenient assets test and look after the senior citizens with financial needs. In addition, he recommended that Hong Kong's four pillars including MPF should be re-examined.

15. Mr Stephen SIU, Deputy Secretary for Labour and Welfare gave a consolidated response, the main points of which were as follows:

－ To show the determination, the government had already earmarked $50 billion to improve the retirement protection and hoped to map out the direction for retirement protection improvement through extensive consultation, brainstorming, and consensus building, including how to make good use of the provision.

－ Universal and non-universal retirement protections were not at odds. At present several measures that benefited the elderly, including old age allowance, $2 transport fare concessions and medical coupons, were exempt from means test or assets test. However, as the allowances of different projects involved different elements, the Government must act within its capacity when making commitments.

－ Apart from cash grants, the Government must also consider how to effectively allocate resources to cater for different needs of the elderly, such as improving and strengthening medical services for the elderly.

－ Figures in the consultation paper had been carefully calculated by relevant experts. Economic impact should be examined with regard to the suggestions of introducing a sales tax and increasing the profits tax.

－ The Government recognised the complexity of the retirement protection issue and hoped to collect views from different sectors of the community to build a consensus through consultation.

16. Mr Stephen SIU, Deputy Secretary for Labour and Welfare thanked Members for their comments and questions, and said Members could provide further comment to the Labour and Welfare Bureau on retirement issues before 21 June 2016. He concluded that Members agreed to gather different views on the retirement protection review, and identify feasible options step by step.

Introduction of the Financial Dispute Resolution Centre Limited (CBSSC Paper No.06/16)

17. The Chairman welcomed Mr Anthony NG, Chief Executive Officer, Ms SIU Fung-ching, Communications Manager and Ms SHEK Lok-tung, Communications Officer of the Financial Dispute Resolution Centre (FDRC) to the meeting.

18. Mr Anthony NG, Chief Executive Officer and Ms SIU Fung-ching, Communications Manager of the FDRC introduced the paper, saying that the FDRC, as a non-profit organization, aimed at resolving disputes over money between financial institutions and their customers. Administered by the FDRC, the Financial Dispute Resolution Scheme (FDRS) was designed to resolve money disputes between financial institutions and their customers with the “Mediation First, Arbitration Next” manner. Eligible claimants might apply to the FDRC for mediation, but the applications must meet the following criteria, including that the claimant must be an individual or sole proprietor, while the other party is a member of the FDRS, that the amount of the claim must not exceed $500,000, and that the claimant has lodged a complaint in writing to the relevant financial institution and the dispute remains unresolved within 60 days thereafter.

19. Ir Dr CHENG Lee-ming believed that the upper limit of $500,000 for the claim amount was too low, and suggested considering increasing the upper limit of the amount concerned. He also enquired the details of the cases which had failed to achieve mediation.

20. Mr YANG Wing-kit enquired whether the FDRC would deal with disputes involving intermediary services of financial companies.

21. Ms SIU of the FDRC gave a consolidated response as follows:

－ The requirement for the claim amount not exceeding $500,000 had been established after public consultation, but the FDRC was collecting opinions from financial institutions and the public on its services, including those relating to the maximum amount.

－ Members of the public might refer to the data on the fees collected for mediation in different cases on the website of the Department of Justice. Members of the public in general were only required to pay about $1,200 to $2,200 for mediation services of the FDRC.

－ Subject to the principle of confidentiality, the FDRC was not allowed to disclose the details of the cases which had failed to achieve mediation, but the failure generally involved a large difference between the expectations of both parties.

－ The FDRC only served financial institution recognised by the Monetary Authority or licensed by the Securities & Futures Commission of Hong Kong.

Request for Lifting the Age Limit of Applicants for the Community Care Fund Elderly Dental Assistance Programme (CBSSC Paper No. 07/16)

22. The Chairman said that the Food and Health Bureau (FHB) did not send representatives to the meeting, but the Secretariat had already sent the written response, namely Paper No. 1 on the table, to all Members for perusal prior to the meeting.

23. Mr Roger KWAN said, the Community Care Fund launched the Elderly Dental Assistance Programme in September 2012, giving low-income elderly people in need access to dental services. The DAB suggested expanding the scope of the programme to elderly people aged 65-79 who were receiving the Old Age Living Allowance. In addition, he recommended that the government consider offering incentives to increase the number of caring dentists and exploring the feasibility of providing coupons for dental services, so that eligible senior citizens could be subsidised on the “money-follows-the-elderly” mode, allowing them to choose registered dentists on their own.

24. The Chairman requested the Secretary to refer Members’ views to the FHB for consideration. He added that as he had to attend other meetings, Mr Admond YUE, the Vice-chairman, would take over to chair the rest of the meeting.

(Post-meeting note: The Secretariat had referred Members’ views to the FHB after the meeting.)

Proposal for Introducing Electronic Submission of Application for Senior Citizen Card (CBSSC Paper No.08/16)

25. Mr Admond YUE said that the Secretariat had already sent the written response from the Social Welfare Department (SWD), namely Paper No. 2 on the table, to all Members for perusal prior to the meeting.

26. Mr Tony NG introduced the paper, saying that elderly people were currently required to submit Senior Citizen Card application forms accompanied by their photos in person or by post. However, he believed that as technology advanced, the SWD should allow the elderly or their families to submit related applications via the Internet, to facilitate members of the public and reduce the chance of postal error.

27. Ir Dr CHENG Lee-ming said many government services had gone electronic and the SWD should enable elderly people to submit Senior Citizen Card applications via the Internet as soon as possible.

28. Ms CHAN Wai-chun, Assistant District Social Welfare Officer (Kowloon City/Yau Tsim Mong) 2 of the SWD said that the SWD was actively digitalising the existing services and began to introduce a smartphone-based special offers application in 2011 to make it easier for the elderly and their families to consult information about the Senior Citizen Card Scheme and special offers from businesses. As regards the proposal to digitalise the application procedure, the SWD would explore the feasibility of the proposal in detail and consider how to verify the eligibility for application when handling online applications, to protect the personal information of applicants.

Strong Request for Providing After School Care Programme at Area (CBSSC Paper No. 09/16)

29. Mr Admond YUE said that the Secretariat had already sent the written response from the SWD, namely Paper No. 3 on the table, to all Members for perusal prior to the meeting.

30. Ms LEUNG Yuen-ting introduced the paper, saying that Kai Ching Estate and Tak Long Estate in Kai Tak new area had a population of over 33,000 people. At present, the only youth centre in the area that offered after-school care services failed to meet the huge demand within the zone, while the 12 centres located in Kowloon City and Yau Tsim Mong districts offering such services could not ease the problem as they were far away from Kai Tak new area. She requested the SWD increase after-school child care services in the Kai Tak new area.

31. Ms CHAN of the SWD said the SWD provided after-school care support services for the children aged 6-12 in need through non-governmental institutions on a self-financing and fee-charging basis. Other than the tutoring service, the scheme also included parent counselling and education, skill learning and social activities. The Department had reflected Members’ proposal to increase after-school care services to the H.K.S.K.H. Kowloon City Children and Youth Integrated Service Centre in the district. Furthermore, the SWD would waive the fees on the after-school care services for families with financial difficulties under the Fee Waiving Subsidy Scheme under the After School Care Programme.

Request for Setting up a Family Service Centre at Kai Tak Development Area (CBSSC Paper No.10/16)

32. Mr Admond YUE said that the Secretariat had already sent the written response from the SWD, namely Paper No. 4 on the table, to all Members for perusal prior to the meeting.

33. Mr HE Huahan introduced the paper and said that a number of unpleasant incidents had occurred in Kai Ching Estate and Tak Long Estate, clearly indicating the importance of community support for the Kai Tak new area. He requested that the SWD relocate the Kai Tak Integrated Family Service Centre currently located at to the Kai Tak new area as soon as possible. In addition, he enquired of the SWD, the Government Property Agency (GPA) and the Planning Department (PlanD) about their progress in finding suitable places for setting up social welfare support points in the district.

34. Ms LEUNG Yuen-ting pointed out that as a local District Councillor, she had tried to provide all sorts of assistance for grassroots residents in Kai Ching Estate and Tak Long Estate, but District Councillor had not received professional training in addressing emotional issues, so she expected the SWD to face up to the relevant problems and to set up family service centres in the district as soon as possible.

35. Mr CHO Wui-hung supported the suggestions made by Miss LEUNG Yuen-ting, asking the SWD to strive for setting up family service centres in Kai Ching Estate and Tak Long Estate with a view to intervening to address emotional problems faced by residents at an early stage so as to avoid the occurrence of tragedies.

36. Mr Roger KWAN stated that as there was no family service centre in the region, the SWD should examine and strengthen outreach services in the Kai Tak new area.

37. Ms CHAN of the SWD said the SWD had succeeded in setting up the Kai Tak Integrated Family Service Centre in 2011-12 to offer family education and other services for individuals and families in need in , Kowloon City and the Kai Tak Development Area. Considering that the centre was added in response to the latest need in the area, instead of being a project planned earlier, and there was no suitable site near Kai Ching Estate and Tak Long Estate for use as permanent premises, so a centre was constructed temporarily at To Kwa Wan. The Department had approached the PlanD, the Housing Department and the GPA and other departments concerned closely, hoping to find a place in or near the Kai Tak Development Area convenient for residents as the Centre’s long-term premises. Moreover, the Centre’s social workers would provide professional assessment, crisis intervention, real-time support and suitable services for residents in need within the Kai Tak area (including outreach services and home visits) and, through street stations, Family Support Programme and working in cooperation with other departments and regional groups, bring service information to the families in need and respond to their problems at an early stage.

38. Mr HE Huahan suggested writing to the PlanD and the GPA in the name of the CBSSC to express Members’ request to set up a family service centre in the region as soon as possible, and to follow up on the feasibility of allocating additional space in the new Revenue Tower and Trade and Industry Tower to the SWD for social welfare uses.

39. Mr Admond YUE agreed, after consulting the Committee, to write to the PlanD and the GPA requesting them to assist the SWD to look for suitable locations in the Kai Tak Development Area for setting up family service centre.

(Post-meeting note: The Chairman sent letters to the PlanD and the GPA on 12 May 2016 expressing Members’ requests.)

Application for KCDC Funds: Subsidising Community Involvement Activities Held by KCDO Committees / Working Groups and KCDC / KCDO Affiliated Organisations in Kowloon City District in 2016/17 (CBSSC Paper No.11/16)

40. The Secretary introduced the paper, saying that the Building Healthy Kowloon City Association Limited applied to organise the “2016 World Health Day – Healthy Kowloon City Carnival” in 2016 for supporting the World Health Day. The purpose of the event was to convey the theme of building healthy communities to the residents in the district through various activities, and deepen the understanding of diabetes for the residents in the Kowloon City district.

41. After discussion, Members agreed unanimously to allocate $47,660 for the Building Healthy Kowloon City Association Limited to organise the “2016 World Health Day – Healthy Kowloon City Carnival”.

Any Other Business

42. The Secretary reported that the CBSSC endorsed the allocation of funds to the Kowloon City District Arts and Culture Council at the 2nd meeting to cover the expenses relating to the “Kowloon City National Day Fun Activity” originally scheduled on 4 October 2015, which was cancelled due to bad weather. The organization applied to transfer the game booth prizes that had not been given out, to the Caritas Community Centre – Kowloon of Caritas Youth and Community Service for distribution to young people in the district free of charge. After discussion, Members agreed unanimously to approve the Kowloon City District Arts and Culture Council transferring the concerned game booth prizes to the Caritas Community Centre – Kowloon of Caritas Youth and Community Service.

Date of Next Meeting

43. The Chairman announced that the date of next meeting would be 26 May 2016 and the deadline of submission of documents was 11 May 2016. There being no other business, the Chairman declared that the meeting was adjourned at 5:07p.m.

44. The minutes of this meeting was confirmed on 26 May 2016.

______Chairman

______Secretary

Kowloon City District Council Secretariat May 2016