Interview with Rabbi Akiva Wagner

INSIGHT REACHING OUT TO THE WORLD WHILE LOOKING OUT FOR OUR YOUTH INTERVIEW BY BORUCH MERKUR Interview with Rabbi Akiva Wagner of at a less frum standard? Rabbi Akiva Wagner: There’s Yeshivas Lubavitch, Toronto regarding the always great impact that bachurim have on each other, in every area, and success of Matisyahu, the proper place of it applies in both directions [i.e., the better bachurim influence the weaker music intended for outreach, and the effect on bachurim and vice versa]. our Youth. Beis Moshiach: We are preparing an interview with Matisyahu, the extremely successful singer who lives Beis Moshiach: How important is it more vigilant in protecting them and in Crown Heights and became a baal for a rosh yeshiva to maintain a insulating them against these outside t’shuva through Chabad. Have you connection with the bachurim on a influences. heard his music? personal level? Beis Moshiach: Do the bachurim Rabbi Akiva Wagner (smiling): I Rabbi Akiva Wagner: It’s extremely appreciate that type of monitoring and haven’t yet had the z’chus to hear his important. The main success of any protection? How do they respond to it? music. yeshiva today is measured not by the Rabbi Akiva Wagner: Obviously the Beis Moshiach: The lyrics and quality or standard of the shiurim, but bachurim range a lot in this, just like themes of Matisyahu’s music are rather by the personal connection and they range in every other area. I find derived from Jewish and even Chabad personal interaction between the that the majority of bachurim sources. Does this classify his music as hanhala and the bachurim. appreciate the objective of the Jewish music per se? Beis Moshiach: Does this include monitoring and the need for it. Rabbi Akiva Wagner: Obviously monitoring and being involved with Therefore, even though they sometimes what I am going to say is only my influencing what type of music they don’t understand or agree with a opinion. I don’t think that fact is listen to? specific rule or a specific standard, enough to classify it as Jewish music. Rabbi Akiva Wagner: The world nonetheless, because they identify with Although, considering his goals and has changed from the way it used to the ultimate goal, they are cooperative the people he’s aiming to reach, it is be. We’re living in a time in which and even appreciative. That’s what I possible that for them it can be there has been r”l an explosion of find in most cases. considered Jewish. Beis Moshiach: destructive outside influences, in every Since there is a Beis Moshiach: So there’s different single area of life. The only way to range amongst the bachurim, is there a standards of how we define Jewish maintain standards for our youth is by lot of peer pressure and a lot of music. For bachurim in Chabad there’s being much more cautious and much influence from those who are holding a much higher standard–– 16 BEIS MOSHIACH - 14 Iyar 5766 Rabbi Akiva Wagner: I’ll give you a used to farbreng about this – that for him a pair of t’fillin that are 4x4, on simple example. When Rabbi Berel bachurim, it’s not the most appropriate the condition that my father commits Levy a”h passed away, his son Rabbi pastime. It was understood that the to always wear his “kesher” according Don Yoel Levy took over the whole OK pastime of a bachur should be a to the nusach of the Alter Rebbe. I enterprise. Being very idealistic, he maamer Chassidus, a sicha, a Likkutei found it especially interesting that – wanted to raise the overall standards of Dibburim, etc. While Kfar Chabad or although, to my knowledge, even at OK, and one of the changes he wanted Beis Moshiach may be a vehicle for that time he did not consider himself a to implement was to not issue an OK publicizing the Rebbe’s views to the Lubavitcher Chassid, yet – while hechsher on any food that’s not chalav world, and for the world it is surely an learning in a Lubavitcher yeshiva, 4x4 Yisroel. His reasoning was that since object of holiness, for a bachur it can t’fillin was important enough to him as we don’t recognize non-chalav Yisroel be the opposite: bittul Torah. Even for a to warrant his making a very long-term as meeting our standard of kashrus, Chassidishe balebos it may be an commitment for their sake.) the OK shouldn’t certify it as kosher. admirable pursuit, but for a bachur, at So too, there could be music that is When he informed the Rebbe of his certain times, it is inappropriate. Jewish for the world – it may be plan, the Rebbe, to his surprise, Another example: Would any “kosher” for the general public and, in strongly opposed it. The Rebbe then Lubavitcher even think of wearing some cases, even for a Lubavitcher said to him [following is the gist of the t’fillin that are not 4x4? Of course not. balebos – and yet for someone who’s Rebbe’s reply, not the exact wording]: To provide such t’fillin to thousands of maintaining a higher standard (i.e., a “Should people who are not yet Jews over the world (as the “t’fillin bachur) they’re not kosher, or perhaps, keeping [away from eating or drinking] bank” is doing) is the greatest thing in for him, not even “Jewish.” chalav akum not have the option of the world, yet for us ourselves to don In the Rambam there’s a concept keeping kosher?!” them is unthinkable. (My father a”h regarding tuma and tahara – that So, although the Rebbe told him to never considered himself a Lubavitcher there’s different stages of tuma and give a hashgacha and to certify non- Chassid, yet he always put on t’fillin tahara. And what’s considered tahor for chalav Yisroel products as kosher, and according to minhag Lubavitch. Once truma is considered tamei for kodesh, this had the effect of increasing the when I expressed my curiosity about etc. And someone who toiveled for numbers of people who would keep this, he told me that when he learned truma is still considered tamei for kosher, it’s self-understood that in a in yeshiva in Bedford (around 1956), kodesh, etc. Lubavitcher home non-chalav Yisroel his mashpia was R’ Dovid Raskin. Beis Moshiach: So for music that foods would be considered below our Once R’ Dovid Raskin made a deal you deem not to be appropriate for standards of kashrus. Chassidim, who with him that he would purchase for displayed mesirus nefesh for every aspect of halacha, would have surely had mesirus nefesh for chalav Yisroel also. In fact, there’s many shluchim in far-flung destinations who have mesirus nefesh, relatively speaking, to bring up their families without compromising on chalav Yisroel. So while non-chalav Yisroel is kosher enough for us to certify it as kosher for the “world,” to a Lubavitcher Chassid, something that’s not chalav Yisroel is not kosher. And that’s something that everyone understands. I’ll give you another example. The Rebbe used to call the K’far Chabad Magazine his “shofar,” and the Rebbe obviously saw a very great benefit in what it does, as far as fighting the cause of Mihu Yehudi and the shtachim, etc. And yet it was always understood – and I believe Reb Mendel Futerfas Rabbi Akiva Wagner farbrenging in 770 Issue Number 554 - BEIS MOSHIACH 17 people of the standard of bachurim in they’re able to convince themselves HaChassidus that there were people a Chabad yeshiva would you then that it’s something Jewish, maybe even who were debating the relative merits classify it as something that is Chassidish. So, I’m sure there are of the different political parties, which forbidden? And are they aware of that, bachurim who find something one is right according to Torah. Every if that is the case? Is it something that attractive about it. one of them brought a source to his is very cut-and-dried, very apparent Beis Moshiach: Do you see that as position and they asked the Frierdike that these things are not acceptable in a very significant problem? Rebbe who is right. The Rebbe said, the dorms or in a yeshiva Rabbi Akiva Wagner: The fact that “The Torah is the ultimate truth, and environment? they find something attractive about it any truthful aspect in any of the parties Rabbi Akiva Wagner: In my per se – I don’t see that as a significant is what it derived from Torah.” The opinion there are 2 points here. [1] problem. The fact that they look to point of the story is that whatever Music that has a certain non-Jewish such directions to find their enjoyment – and in s’farim it says this taam to it, a certain non-Jewish style, enjoyment, the fact that they’re not specifically regarding negina – or that is totally derived from goyishe focused on where they should really be whatever beauty there is to any sources, I would say is forbidden, in finding their enjoyment – that’s a worldly thing is just the shmarei most cases even for those who are not significant problem. ha’ofanim of what’s there in pure, authentic Yiddishkait and Chassidus. If bachurim. [2] Even if there’s nothing You know, a bachur once came a bachur would seek inspiration in inherently non-Jewish about the music over to me, very excited, and he told Chassidishe niggunim, he would (and what that means is probably me he wants to show me a beautiful ultimately discover a much more debatable; different people can have idea that inspired him.

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