Volume V Wednesday, No. 14 21st August, 1963

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RAAYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)

OFFICIAL REPORT

CONTENTS

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER— Message from the Senate [Col. 1499] BILLS— The Immigration Bill [Col. 1500] The Consolidated Fund (Expenditure on Account) Bill [Col. 1538] The Tariff Advisory Board Bill [Col. 1543}

DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1964 1497 21 AUGUST 1963 1498

The Honourable ENCHE' K. KARAM SINGH (Damansara). „ CHE' KHADIJAH BINTI MOHD. SIDEK (Dungun). ENCHE' KHONG KOK YAT (Batu Gajah). ENCHE' LEE SAN CHOON, K.M.N. (Kluang Utara). „ ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim). „ ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N. (Sepang). „ ENCHE' LIM JOO KONG, J.P. (Alor Star). ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat). ENCHE' LIU YOONG PENG (Rawang). ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson). „ ENCHE' MOHAMED BIN UJANG (Jelebu-Jempol). „ ENCHE' MOHAMED ABBAS BIN AHMAD (Hilir Perak). ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA (Pasir Puteh). ENCHE' MOHAMED NOR BIN MOHD. DAHAN (Ulu Perak). „ DATO' MOHAMED HANIFAH BIN HAJI ABDUL GHANI, P.J.K. (Pasir Mas Hulu). „ ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N. (Temerloh). „ TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan). „ ENCHE' NG ANN TECK (Batu). „ TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Tanah Merah). „ ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Perlis Utara). „ ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Barat). „ TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD. SAID, J.P. (Rembau-Tampin). „ ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB (Muar Pantai). „ ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh). „ ENCHE' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu). TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S. (Batu Pahat Dalam). „ TUAN SYED HASHIM BIN SYED AJAM, A.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Sabak Bernam). „ TUAN SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, J.M.N. (Johor Tenggara). „ ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN ALI, P.J.K. (Larut Utara). „ ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan). „ ENCHE' TAN PHOCK KIN (Tanjong). „ ENCHE' TAN TYE CHEK (Kulim-Bandar Bahru). „ TENGKU BESAR INDERA RAJA IBNI AL-MARHUM SULTAN IBRAHIM, D.K., P.M.N. (Ulu Kelantan). DATO' TEOH CHZE CHONG, D.P.M.J., J.P. (Segamat Selatan). ENCHE' TOO JOON HING (Telok Anson). „ ENCHE' V. VEERAPPEN (Seberang Selatan). WAN SULAIMAN BIN WAN TAM, P.J.K. (Kota Star Selatan). WAN YAHYA BIN HAJI WAN MOHAMED, K.M.N. (Kemaman). ENCHE' YAHYA BIN HAJI AHMAD (Bagan Datoh). „ ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas). 1499 21 AUGUST 1963 1500

The Honourable ENCHE' YONG WOO MING (Sitiawan). PUAN HAJJAH ZAIN BINTI SULAIMAN, J.M.N., P.I.S. (Pontian Selatan). TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD. TAIB (Langat). ENCHE' ZULKIFLEE BIN MUHAMMAD (Bachok). ABSENT: The Honourable the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N. (Sungei Siput). ENCHE' AHMAD BOESTAMAM (Setapak). ENCHE' MOHAMED DAHARI BIN HAJI MOHAMED ALI (Kuala Selangor). NIK MAN BIN NIK MOHAMED (Pasir Mas Hilir). ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka). WAN MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ALI (Kelantan Hillir). IN ATTENDANCE: The Honourable the Minister without Portfolio, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K.

PRAYERS BILLS (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) THE IMMIGRATION BILL Second Reading ANNOUNCEMENT BY The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun Haji MR SPEAKER Abdul Razak): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "an Act MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE to extend and adopt the Immigration 2 Ordinance, 1959, for Malaysia, and to Mr Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat, make additional provision with respect saya hendak mema'alumkan saya telah to entry to the States of Sabah and menerima satu perutusan yang bertarikh Sarawak", be read a second time. 20hb Ogos, 1963, daripada Yang di- Pertua, Dewan Negara, berkenaan As Honourable Members are aware, dengan perkara2 yang tertentu yang since the day that the idea of Malaysia telah di-hantar oleh Majlis ini minta was conceived, the representatives of di-persetujukan oleh Dewan Negara. the Borneo States had made it clear Sekarang saya minta Setia-usaha Majlis that although they accepted the ini supaya membachakan perutusan itu concept of Malaysia in principle, they kapada Majlis ini. considered it essential that in view of the small size of their population and {The Clerk reads the message) the undeveloped nature of their terri­ tories, they should be protected against "Mr. Speaker, unrestricted movement of people into their territories. The Senate has agreed to the following Bill, without amendment : They made their position clear in the Malaysia Solidarity Consultative A Bill to amend the Constitu­ Committee, 1961, and that Committee tion of the Federation and, in explained and discussed this question connection therewith, the Interpre­ at length. That Committee came to the tation and General Clauses Ordi­ conclusion that, while recognising the nance, 1948. need for these territories to achieve rapid progress and development which (Sd) DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN made it necessary to attract labour and BIN MOHAMED YASIN, technicians from outside, they consi­ (President)" dered that the territories themselves 1501 21 AUGUST 1963 1502 should be in a position to determine provided that the free movement of the rate and the scope of their develop­ persons in the service of the Central ment, taking into account the Government was guaranteed. population problems which such development might create as well as Now, Sir, when the Inter-Govern­ the desirability of keeping in step with mental Committee was appointed by the general trend of development of the Governments of U.K., Federation Malaysia as a whole. The people of of Malaya, Sabah and Sarawak, the Borneo territories were anxious representatives of this Committee went and nervous that by federating with round to various parts of Sabah and the more advanced States in the Sarawak and met leaders of the people present Federation of Malaya and at various levels. In all these meetings, Singapore, their future position in immigration was the subject which their own States should not in anyway they invariably raised with the be prejudiced. The Prime Minister, at Committee. The people asked that one of the meetings of the Solidarity they should have control over immi­ Consultative Committee, gave an assur­ gration. ance that there would be no Now, as a result of all this, the unimpeded migration into the Borneo Inter-Governmental Committee which territories and that when Malaysia is discussed and considered this matter established constitutional provisions very carefully had made the specific whereby control of such movement recommendations on this matter. The would be effected, would be devised recommendations of the Inter-Govern­ by constitutional experts. This assur­ mental Committee are as follows: ance was very much welcomed in the Borneo territories and went a long (a) immigration into Malaysia should remain on the Federal List, but way to calm their fears and anxieties. legislation should be enacted by the Federal Parliament to ensure When the Cobbold Commission that entry into Sabah or Sarawak went to ascertain the views of the would require the approval of the Borneo territories on Malaysia, they State Government except in the also considered this matter very care­ cases mentioned below; fully. Representations were made by all (b) the Federal Constitution should sections of the community in the be amended to enable the Federal Borneo territories to the Cobbold Parliament to legislate to control Commission that they would not agree, the movement of persons between under any circumstances, to allow the existing Federation and a new unrestricted migration into their terri­ State, or between new States on tories. Therefore, the Cobbold Com­ any ground, i.e., not merely by mission in paragraph 148 (g) of its laws relating to security, public Report unanimously recommended that order, public health or the punish­ control over immigration into any ment of offenders; part of Malaysia from outside should rest with the Central Government, (c) the Federal Government should subject to the proviso that such entry undertake to pass before Malaysia into Sabah and Sarawak should also Day a law giving effect to these require the approval of the State arrangements relating to immigra­ Government concerned, but that the tion and coming into operation Federal Government should guarantee on Malaysia Day, the draft of unrestricted entry for purposes of which would be agreed by the employment of persons recruited by Government of the Borneo States the State Government, except on and scheduled to the formal grounds of security. In relation to the agreement for the establishment of question of entry from any other Malaysia; Malaysian territory into Sabah and (d) the Federal Constitution should Sarawak, the Commission recom­ be amended to provide that this mended that this should be subject to law may not be amended or the control of the State concerned, repealed in its application to a 1503 21 AUGUST 1963 1504

Borneo State without the concur­ the State Government, con­ rence of the Government of the siders it necessary in order State concerned; to enable the Federal (e) the Federal Constitution should be Government to carry out its amended to provide that the constitutional and adminis­ provisions referred to in sub­ trative responsibilities or paragraphs (b) and (d) may not be any citizen who enters for amended or repealed in their the purpose of exercising his application to either of the Borneo rights in connection with the States without the concurrence of functioning of parliamentary the Government of the State democracy in Malaysia or concerned; and any part thereof, or any person who belongs to the (/) the law referred to in sub­ State, i.e., who is a perma­ paragraph (c) should contain pro­ nent resident of the State or visions to secure that: who is a citizen of Malaysia (i) any persons from outside on account of connection Malaysia whose entry into with the State; and a Borneo State the Govern­ (v) no person who resides tem­ ment of that State considers porarily in the State in it necessary for State purposes accordance with sub-para­ shall be given entry except graph (iv) shall by reason of in cases where the Federal such residence be deemed Government, which will be to belong to the State or to consulted for this purpose, be a citizen of Malaysia on considers that it is desirable account of connection with in the national interest that the State for the purposes of entry should be refused; that sub-paragraph. (ii) subject to Article 9 (1) and This Bill before the House contains to sub-paragraph (iv) below, the recommendations of the Inter- admission to a Borneo State Governmental Committee, as stated will not be granted to any above, and is in the form of the draft other person or class of agreed by the Governments of Sabah persons, whether from inside and Sarawak and scheduled to the or outside Malaysia, without formal agreement and gives effect to the approval of the Govern­ the establishment of Malaysia. ment of the State concerned; We have therefore accepted two (iii) subject to Article 9 (1) and principles in this Bill, as a result of to sub-paragraph (iv) below, prolonged negotiations between repre­ any person who is present sentatives of the two above territories in a Borneo State contrary and ourselves, and as I have said, in to the provisions of sub­ order to allay their fears and anxieties. paragraph (ii) above or First we accepted the principle that as whose presence is otherwise the two territories have a small unlawful, whom the Govern­ population in relation to their size, it ment of the State wishes to is essential to provide them with be removed from the State, protection against unrestricted move­ shall be so removed; ment of people from other parts of the (iv) the provisions outlined in Federation. Under section 6 of the Bill, sub-paragraphs (ii) and (iii) the right to enter a Borneo State is above do not apply to therefore limited to particular classes members or officers of the of citizens. First, of course, there are Federal Government or any those who belong to the State and they person or class of persons are defined in section 11. The second whose temporary presence in category consists of people, i.e., the State the Federal Govern­ members of Federal or State Govern­ ment, after consultation with ments, judges, Federal officers, etc., 1505 21 AUGUST 1963 1506 and those people whose presence in the for entry of labour from outside Borneo territories is necessary for the Malaysia and if it is found that no discharge of constitutional and adminis­ efforts had been made to recruit labour trative responsibilities of the Federal from other parts of Malaysia, the Government. Also, under section 7, Central Government would then be in those persons who are engaging in a position to say that such an entry legitimate political activities also are from outside Malaysia would be entitled to enter the Borneo territories. against the national interest. Again, if Sir, in the interest of parliamentary there was an application for entry into democracy and in order to see that the Borneo State for State purpose for immigration control is not used to a person who is considered a security stifle political opposition, this section risk, then it is open to the Central is inserted in the Bill. Government to refuse his entry. Sir, in all circumstances we consider these Now under section 8, the Federal safeguards are reasonable and these Government has the right, after con­ are the safeguards which the State sultation with the State authority, to Government have asked because, as I override State power to veto a citizen's have said, they have their fears and entry into the State where his entry is their anxieties in these initial years required to enable the Federal Govern­ until they feel that they are one with ment to carry out its responsibilities us and the Central Government here and this power is exercisable in in Kuala Lumpur is their Government. relation to either individuals or in relation to classes of persons. The other parts of the Bill are of somewhat lesser significance. Part I is The other principle which we have merely formal and deals with the also accepted is that the question of extension of the present immigration entry from outside the Federation into laws of the Federation to Malaysia as any of the Borneo States should rest a whole instead of the Federation of with the Central Government and these Malaya only as it now stands. The powers are exercisable by the Con­ present laws of the new States are troller in accordance with the accordingly repealed. This change directions given to him by the Minister. produces no significant effect since the However, while the Central Govern­ present laws of the new States are ment should have power over all very like and in some respects identi­ entries from outside the Federation, cal with the Federation law which is we consider it is legitimate that we now being extended. should assure the Borneo States that if they require people from outside for Part II of the Bill deals with the their own State purpose then we should administration of immigration in the not unduly restrict their requirements. Borneo States. The special immigration The Borneo States are undeveloped control in the Borneo States will be and they will in future require, as we administered by the same Federal do here, assistance of experts and officers as administering the overall technicians from outside to carry out control for Malaysia and is a matter their development but the Central for the Federal authority subject to Government will have the power to special rights conferred on State refuse entry from outside the Federa­ authorities. tion for purposes of State Government Now, section 5 of the Bill is the if the Central Government considers core of Part II. It gives the State desirable in the national interest that authorities in a Borneo State (although such entry should be refused. In other immigration remains a Federal subject words, if the Central Government and is administered by Federal officers) considers that the persons required the power to say that a person shall by the Borneo State to assist them in not be admitted to the State except the development can be found in other on conditions acceptable to the State parts of Malaysia, then these persons authorities and that persons not should not be brought from outside, acceptable shall not be admitted, or if for example, if there was an application already present subject to removal 1507 21 AUGUST 1963 1508

shall be removed. These powers are Part III of the Bill deals with a purely negative, and do not replace or number of matters, such as carrying cut down the powers of the federal of a passport or similar travel docu­ authorities. The result is that a person's ment and section 16 of that Part presence in a Borneo State (unless he enables the Minister, by an order made has a right to be there) has to be before Malaysia Day, to make supple­ acceptable to both the State and the mentary provision of a transitional Federal authorities. This is subject to nature. certain exceptions in sections 8 and 9, which I have already referred to. It will be. seen from the above Accordingly the Controller in a recommendations that while it is agreed Borneo State will have to work to that immigration should be a Federal instructions from the State authorities matter, the Borneo territories are as well as from the Federal Minister. allowed certain safeguards. Of course, In order to make this effective, sub­ there is no restriction to persons in section (2) provides that the Minister the employment of the Federal Govern­ shall not allow an appeal from a decision ment to go to the Borneo territories of the Controller without the concur­ and there is no restriction to the rence of the State authority, in any Federal Government to sending officers case where directions to the Controller and others to the territories in the from the State are in point; sub-section discharge of the Federal Government's (3) provides that the Minister shall not constitutional and administrative res­ grant exemptions from the immigration ponsibilities. There is also no objection control without the concurrence of the to persons going to the Borneo State authority. There is a similar pro­ territories to carry out legitimate vision in sub-section (2) of section 4 to political activities. But persons outside prevent regulations being used to defeat these categories will not be allowed to the powers of the State authorities— enter the Borneo territories without the e.g., by not allowing to be attached to consent of the Government of the State Passes, etc., for entry to the State the concerned, except the Federal Govern­ kind of conditions which the State ment has the final say in that the authority may want to require under Federal Government could refuse the section 5. This section is, of course, entry of any person to a Borneo State subject to certain exceptions in sections if it considers it is in the national 8 and 9. interest to do so. It is agreed that it is not very desirable to have these Section 10 is a temporary provision restrictions of movement in what is to give certain potential citizens in a virtually one independent sovereign Borneo State the same rights. State, but it should be appreciated that Section 11 defines those citizens who Malaysia is a Federation of States and are to have a free right of entry into a that the new States of the Borneo Borneo State on the ground that they territories decided to enter the Federa­ belong there. They are of two classes— tion out of their own free will and we first those who are at any time perma­ here to some extent must respect their nently resident there (or have been to wishes and must understand their fears a date two years or less previously) and anxieties. Although the Borneo and secondly those whose right to territories have had many common ties citizenship depends on a connection with us for generations, they have with the State. The second class will been separated constitutionally and consist of persons born in the Borneo administratively from the States of State when the parents or one of them Malaya. They were under different is permanently resident there; but it administration and they were separated includes also those who are ordinarily from us by thousands of miles of sea. resident in the State on Malaysia Day It will take some time for them to and who become citizens automatically realise after Malaysia that they belong on that day or register as citizens under to one country and one nation. It will the special provision in the Malaysia take them some time to realise that Bill. Kuala Lumpur, which is the national 1509 21 AUGUST 1963 1510

Capital, is their national Capital. It the people of Sarawak are clamouring will take them some time to realise to joint Malaysia—that nevertheless that the Central Government in a there are fears and there are anxieties. Federation is a Government established One significant statement which he has by all the constituent States and that made is that it will take some time they have a say in carrying out that for them to realise that they belong Government. It is in fact their Govern­ to one race and to one nation. So, ment as much as it is ours. In the same Sir, the Deputy Prime Minister admits way, in Malaya itself in 1948, when the that we are bringing these people into present Federation started, some of the Malaysia, although they do not realise former unfederated Malay States, e.g., that they belong to one race, or that Kedah, Kelantan and Trengganu, found they are in the process of creating one it difficult to reconcile to the fact that nation. they are under one Central Government This Bill, Sir, reflects the distrust and that to all intents and purposes which exists between peoples whom the they belong to one country with other Federation Government is trying to States. It is difficult for a man from bring into Malaysia without a proper such out of the way place as Alor Star assessment of their desires. The to accept Kuala Lumpur as his Federation Government has sought and national Capital. But times have obtain the views of self-proclaimed changed all this. Now everyone of us leaders of those territories; and in order in Malaya wherever we come from to put a blind, the Federation Govern­ regard ourselves as members of one ment has introduced this Bill saying, nation. In the same way, in the Borneo "We are so concerned about their fears territories it is hoped that in the course that we are giving them protection by of time when their representatives have this Ordinance." Now, how can you sat with us in this House and their build a nation if, even before it is born, officers have worked with us in the you concede that there is fear and Central Government and in the Federal distrust? You concede that the people Departments and they are represented are not prepared to come into Malaysia in the highest body of governmental without conditions. They ask you for organisation, their fears and anxieties safeguards because, obviously, they do will fade away, but we have to give not trust you; and if they do not trust them time to do this. Therefore, it is you, why do you want to take this necessary for us to have this legislation step? Why not ask them to develop to allay their fears and anxieties and further until they are ready to realise we hope that time may not be far that they are going to belong to one distant when they themselves will agree nation, and then bring them in? to do away with some of the provisions of this legislation. Mr Speaker, Sir, there are very objectionable features in this Bill, and Sir, I beg to move. I would first of all like to refer to Clause 5. This Clause provides that The Minister of Labour and Social citizens of Malaysia will not be able Welfare (Enche' Bahaman bin Sam- to move about freely without pass or sudin): Sir, I beg to second the motion. travel document in so far as the Borneo Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam (Meng- territories are concerned. There, Sir, lembu): Mr Speaker, Sir, the concept there is discrimination and there we of Malaysia as expounded by the are treated as foreigners in those Honourable Prime Minister, when he territories. initiated the idea, was that it was Now, Clause 6—the purpose of this going to be one united family, one Clause is to exempt a certain group of happy family, where everybody was persons from the restrictions imposed: going to live as brothers and sisters. e.g., a person who belongs to the Today, the Honourable Deputy Prime Borneo State, a person who is a mem­ Minister has admitted—even at this ber of the Federal Government, a stage where the world is made to person who is a judge of the Federal believe that the people of Sabah and Court, and so on. 1511 21 AUGUST 1963 1512

Clause 7 says: "Sub-section (1) of him for the proof, and to whom is he section 6 shall not have effect in rela­ going to furnish the proof? Is he going tion to a citizen of the Federation to be stopped at the airport in Borneo entering the Borneo State for the sole and asked, "Prove that you are coming purpose of engaging in legitimate poli­ here for political activities"? Is he tical activety;". Sir, I do not know who supposed to give a draft of his speech, drafted this. No attempt has been made and is he supposed to carry a list of by the Honourable Deputy Prime persons whom he is going to meet in Minister to explain what is "legitimate the Borneo territory? This is obviously political activity". "Legitimate politi­ designed, as the Honourable Deputy cal activity" and "lawful political Prime Minister has said, to create the activity"—what is the difference? Why impression that they are so anxious to choose the word "legitimate"? We are nurture the Opposition, a healthy used to the word "law"; and after all Opposition, when in fact there is no this Parliament deals with laws. So, protection at all. So far as I can see, why not use the word "lawful"? Is anybody can be turned away. They there anything sinister about this word say, "Go and bring proof", and when "legitimate"? It is not a term that has you argue further, the men there would been properly defined: why use that say, "We are not satisfied; you go and vague term? Why not say, "lawful see the Minister"—by that time the political activity"? That would be meeting which you wanted to address much clearer. The Honourable Deputy would probably be over. Prime Minister has said, "people engaged in lawful political activities Sir, the fears expressed by the people are entitled to enter the Borneo of the Borneo State, according to the State"—is he correct? Supposing there Deputy Prime Minister, I think, is Malaysia tomorrow, supposing I am amounts to this—that they are afraid invited to address a public meeting on that immigrants will go to live there somebody else's platform, what have I permanently and thus affect the got to do? Just buy a shipping ticket, standard of life of that country. If that or an air ticket, and cross over? Can is the only fear you are guarding I do that? Who is going to decide against, why make all these restric­ whether I am going there for legitimate tions? Why not say that people cannot political activities or not? The man who go and settle there except on certain sells me the shipping ticket, the man conditions? Why restrict people moving who sells me the air ticket? How is up and down even for a day or two? this going to be implemented? Any man in Malaya can say, "1 am going Mr Speaker, Sir, this Bill is only a there for political activities; I want to reflection of what I would term the study the political situation; I want to fear which exists not only in the propagate my view."—or, do you Borneo countries but also in the restrict it to the President, the Vice- Alliance Party in this country—a fear President and the Secretary-General of directed against a certain community, a political party? Surely, this is much that is the fear which has inspired this too vague, and one would expect clari­ Bill; and the power to exclude a certain fication of this very very doubtful pro­ community is contained in Clause tection for politicians. 5 (1) (a) which reads: "In exercising his powers under the Immi­ gration Ordinance, 1959, as a special law for Sir, I would invite the Honourable a Borneo State the Controller shall comply Deputy Prime Minister to explain how with any directions given to him by the State this is to operate, whether the day after authority, being directions— Malaysia any political leader can go (a) requiring him not to issue a Permit or over to the Borneo State—to form a Pass, or a specified description of Permit or Pass, to any specified person political party, for example. The signi­ or class of persons, . . . ." ficant thing is this: "The burden of proof that a person is entitled to enter There it could be said that no permit the Borneo State under this section is to be issued to a class of persons shall lie on him." Who is going to ask belonging to a certain race, and in that 1513 21 AUGUST 1963 1514

way a whole race could be prohibited within our own country, we have to from entering the Borneo States. get a permit to move about. It is contrary to things that happen through­ At this stage, Mr Speaker, Sir, when out the world. We can see, for example, Malaysia itself is in the balance, there that in Europe any person can move are many of us who believe that within Europe, in countries in Europe, Malaysia is not coming about, our only with just an identity card. Sir, with hope is that the whole structure of just an identity card you can move Malaysia will collapse even before it about. . . (AN HONOURABLE MEMBER : comes into existence, and that at some East Germany?) Mr Chairman, Sir, time in the future, perhaps, a more some one has mentioned East Ger­ enlightened Government would draft a many. (Laughter). new constitution to bring into being a Malaysia based on equality and justice. Mr Speaker: Do not pay attention to that. Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr Speaker, Enche' V. Veerappen: And under the Sir, I must congratulate the Honourable Rome Treaty not only can one move Deputy Prime Minister for his very about freely, but goods also can be moving and eloquent speech in trying moved about freely. Is that not true? It to convince this House of the necessity is definitely true that people can move for thisi legislation—the Immigration about freely within Europe; there are Bill. However, I must say that it is so many countries in Europe and they unfortunate that I am not convinced, are powerful countries, and people can and I am opposed to this Bill. move about freely. Mr Speaker, Sir, as I have pointed Sir, let us take the Commonwealth out, when the constitutional amend­ Immigration Bill, which was debated ments were debated, that movement very hotly in England in the British within one nation is an important House of Commons. For hundreds of ingredient for the building up of one years Commonwealth citizens had free nationality. Nevertheless, the Honour­ entry into England, and they could able Deputy Prime Minister has told even settle there—and present immigra­ us that this is introduced mainly tion control is to restrict a certain class because of the anxiety and fear of the of persons only to avoid hardships to people in those territories. Whether a certain class of people if they go into there is any good ground for those that country. Here it is wholesale. people to have such fear and anxiety is quite debatable, but the fact is that Mr Speaker, Sir, if you look at we have heard our leaders, especially Clause 6 (1), you will see that certain the Alliance members, say that we are people are exempted. According to this one people, we have been one for ages Clause certain persons are exempted, and ages but we have been separated or need not have permits to enter a by the colonialists, and now we are Borneo State; for example, a person getting together; if that is so then these who belongs to the Borneo State; a people should not have this fear and meniber of the Federal Government, or anxiety. Even if there should be this of the Executive Council—here, I do anxiety, I feel that this whole Bill is not know who are the members of the clumsy, and I agree with the Honour­ Federal Government; and a judge of able Member for Menglembu that there the High Court or of the Federal Court are other considerations than the things of Borneo. that have been told us—there is some­ Sir, our Honourable Deputy Prime thing sinister in it. It is sinister in that Minister said the "judges", but I say it restricts the movement of people, this restricts it to a judge of the Federal people who are just going on visits; Court or a judge of the High Court in it even restricts, as you will see, the Borneo. It does not include a judge of Speaker of this House from going there, our High Court here, or a judge of the because there is no provision. I wonder High Court of Singapore—he has no whether parliamentarians are entitled right of entry—and members of any to go. Sir, within our own State, Commission or Council. Therefore, I 1515 21 AUGUST 1963 1516 am right in saying that even our Spea­ takes any action in obedience or pur­ ker has no right of entry to the Borneo ported obedience to any directions States. given under sub-section (1),—"—that is by the State Authority—"When Mr Speaker: Do not try to drag me there is an appeal to the Minister into this. (Laughter). against that action", the Minister shall Enche' V. Veerappen: Such an not allow the appeal without the impartial person as the Speaker of a concurrence of the State authority. high body, a supreme body—Mr Mr Speaker, Sir, see the ridiculousness! Speaker, Sir, you are the president of The State authority says that this the supreme body in this country—has person or this class of persons cannot not the right of entry. It shows how enter; then that person appeals to the ridiculous this whole Bill is. It has Minister; the Minister cannot decide been stated that Members of Parliament and the Minister shall not allow an have the right of entry, but there is no appeal unless that same authority right of entry. I do not think so. I which says "No" agrees now. So, there would give way if they would clarify is no veto power. Even in Clause 8 (3) that section. on the matter of giving power to ihe Minister to declare certain classes of Clause 7 says, "—for the sole purpose people as having the right of entry to of engaging in legitimate political the Borneo States, it is stated: activity;—" but, if I am going on a "The Minister shall not give any notifica­ pleasure visit, or if I am just going to tion to the Controller under sub-section (2) see the people to find out how they live, except after consultation with the State how they work, can I go as a Member authority." of Parliament—I am not a member of So, in every respect, the State authority the Federal Government? Definitely I is the final authority and not the Minis­ do not think so. (Laughter). ter—not the Federal Government. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes. Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, on a Enche' V. Veerappen: Yes? Then point of clarification in regard to Clause show me please. I give way. 8 (3). This consultation is only to inform the State Government of the Mr Speaker: Order, order, what is classes of persons to be admitted. The going on? State Government has no right to veto this power. It is only for information, Enche' V. Veerappen: Another because they have got to keep a list aspect of this, Sir, is that that Clause of those people who are entering. 5 gives the power to the State, but then it retains the power with the Minis­ Enche' V. Veerappen: But it is after ter—the Honourable Deputy Prime the consultation. Under Clause 5 (1) Minister has stated just now that the the Controller of Immigration in Borneo power of veto is with the Minister. Mr has to comply with the instructions Chairman, Sir, this is contradictory in given by the State authority. Another that while the Minister has power, yet fact is this that the Honourable Deputy he cannot act without the concurrence Prime Minister is not able to tell us of the State Government. This divisi­ whether this Bill is introduced to bility of power, obviously, is bound to protect the economic interests of the to cause trouble, and a lot of friction people or the political interest of the will arise, just like in a home between people there. I am beginning to think a husband and wife where there is that this is politics and not just divisibility of power—you know, Sir, economics. It is not an economic and we all know, how difficult it is to necessity, because I feel that we, in the carry on happily in a home. (Laughter). Federation, have our identity cards— Such being the case, how is the Minis­ and this identification should be suffi­ ter responsible for immigration going cient in case any of us should buy a to get round this provision in the law? plane ticket to go to the Borneo terri­ The Minister, under Clause 5 (2), tories; and as soon as we land, cannot override "where the Controller immigration officers could give us a 1517 21 AUGUST 1963 1518 card, and we fill up the card saying Enche' V. Veerappen: Clarification. that we are going for a visit, for how many days, where we stay—and they Mr Speaker: What clarification? could trace us, as we are not going Enche' V. Veerappen: Clarification, to disappear into the long houses. as Federation is mentioned here, as to (Laughter). what constitutes the Federation. Is it Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, on the the old Federation of Malaya, or the point of information before the Honour­ Federation of Malaysia? What is it able Member becomes more confused— that the Government wants officially? even without this restriction it is Is the Director's version official, or the necessary to have an internal travel thing said in the law of our country document to go to the Borneo terri­ official? Thank you, Mr Speaker. tories because we are crossing interna­ Enche' Too Joon Hing (Telok Anson): tional seas, and under international Mr Speaker, Sir, we have heard from practice we must have a travel the Deputy Prime Minister that this document, otherwise we will not be Bill was made necessary, because the allowed to pass through international people in the Bornean territories were waters. Whatever it is, you cannot go afraid of the rapid development and to the Borneo territories with only an the size of our population here, i.e., identity card. they are afraid because we are a more Enche' V, Veerappen: I thank the advanced State and a more advanced Honourable Deputy Prime Minister people than the people in those terri­ for that clarification. tories. Sir, we were given to understand by our Prime Minister that the objec­ Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, tive of Malaysia itself is to help to Sir, on a point of information surely bring prosperity and security to the the Honourable Deputy Prime Minister people of all the States. Yet I cannot is confusing between an identity card see how that objective can be attained, and a passport. If we have a passport, unless the people in this area are given we can cross any sea. a certain degree of freedom of move­ Tun Haji Abdul Razak: I think the ment into those territories. For example, Honourable Member is confused him­ take the case of the State of Kelantan self. I said "internal travel document". in our country. Pratically the whole of Passport is different from an internal the State lands there are Malay reserves, travel document. and people find it difficult to go over there to develop. Therefore, the State Enche' V. Veerappen: My last point, of Kelantan—with due respect to the Mr Speaker, Sir, is that there is a Pan-Malayan Islamic Party who is in certain amount of confusion over the control—is far backward as compared word "federal". Just now also the to the States on the West Coast. There­ Honourable Deputy Prime Minister fore, unless the territories in Borneo referred to the "Federation". I take it, adopt an "open door" method, I cannot Mr Speaker, that the "Federation" after see how we can help them to develop. Malaysia would mean the Federation Sir, we have to give those territories of Malaysia. I heard that the Director annually $100 million for development. of Information has issued instruction Yet our people are restricted from not to refer to the Federation of going there. But, on the other hand, Malaysia but just Malaysia. However, the Singapore Government, which has in our law—I think in the Malaysia agreed to give them a loan of $150 Bill and in this Bill—we have stated million, has put conditions on that loan, Federation of Malaysia, or just the and that is, in the case of projects Federation, which I take it to mean financed by that loan, 50 per cent of the Federation of Malaysia; and I do the labour force is to be recruited not know why the Director of Informa­ from Singapore. Therefore, I think this tion Bill in no way benefits us at all, Mr Speaker: What has that got to because it restricts our people from do with this? going there. 1519 21 AUGUST 1963 1520

Sir, I do not wish to speak very negeri2 Borneo yang mana akan me- much because so much has already nyentoh kehidupan dan kemajuan been said. However, there is one final mereka itu. Saya teringat pada satu thing which I would like to ask the masa sa-telah Penyata Surohanjaya Minister to clarify, i.e., whether the Cobbold di-keluarkan, satu rombongan people going over there require a dari Borneo telah datang ka-Tanah travel permit. This permit, usually I Melayu dan saya telah sempat ber- think the passport, requires referees to jumpa dengan mereka itu serta ber- verify an applicant's application at the chakap2 dengan mereka, dan saya present time. Sometimes applicants for dapati yang mereka itu mengatakan passports find it difficult to get proper supaya kuasa immigration itu di-beri referees as required under the condi­ kapada mereka. Saya dengar daripada tions of application for a passport. They mereka itu bahawa yang di-takuti oleh have to get either doctors, members mereka itu ia-lah satu kelas orang yang of a State Legislature or members di-sebut-nya ia-lah orang2 Singapura of Parliament, etc. It is indeed very yang akan berpindah beramai2 dari difficult for an ordinary man to find Singapura ka-Borneo. Pada pendapat referees of such a category to verify saya, ini-lah agak-nya sebab yang besar for him; and I would suggest that this bagi di-kemukakan pindaan dan adopta- category of referees should be relaxed tion bagi Immigration Ordinance yang to that of an easier category of people di-kemukakan ini. Kalau itu-lah sahaja yang menjadi sebab-nya, maka saya fikir to be approached, such as leaders of 2 community or associations, so that tidak-lah patut sa-buah Rang Undang these people would not find it very yang saperti ini di-kemukakan, sebab Rang Undang2 saperti ini sa-lain dari­ difficult to get referees to verify their 2 applications. Sir, I would like the pada berlawanan dengan kehendak Minister to clarify this, because it Perlembagaan Persekutuan Tanah would help a lot of people in getting Melayu yang memberi kebebasan ber- their passports or travel documents. gerak dalam Persekutuan Tanah Melayu, dan boleh jadi Persekutuan Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad Malaysia, ia juga berlawanan dengan (Bachok): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, hujah kehendak kehidupan bagi negeri2 itu. yang di-kemukakan oleh Timbalan Sa-patut-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Perdana Menteri bagi membolehkan 2 2 sa-suatu undang bagi restriction hen- Rang Undang ini di-bawa ka-Dewan dak-lah ada di-dalam-nya amalan ini, bukan-lah kerana kapada pendapat restriction kapada gulongan yang kechil, Kerajaan bahawa perkara immigration tetapi Rang Undang2 ini terbalek, ini patut dudok-nya di-tangan Kera­ sebab dia mengamalkan restriction jaan Negeri pada masa itu, tetapi kapada gulongan yang besar sedang hujah-nya ia-lah kerana kita meng- kebebasan di-beri kapada gulongan hargai dan memahami keadaan yang yang kechil. Satu undang2 bagi menga- ada di-dalam negeri2 Borneo itu ia-itu 2 wal sa-suatu ia-lah perkechualian Sarawak dan Sabah dan kedua -nya daripada undang2 'am. Maka per­ baharu hendak masok ka-dalam Malay­ kechualian daripada undang2 'am sia dalam layanan saperti ini. hendak-lah di-asaskan bahawa semua bebas bergerak, melainkan orang2 ini Tuan Yang di-Pertua, nyata-lah 2 2 bahawa memberi kuasa immigration atau jenis ini, tetapi Rang Undang kapada Kerajaan Negeri saperti ini, ini semua tidak boleh bergerak bebas, melainkan cheraian (a), (b), (c\ (d) di- ada-lah berlawanan dengan asas 2 layanan2 yang di-beri kapada Kerajaan dalam Bab 6 dalam Rang Undang ini. Negeri saperti yang telah ada pada Satu keganjilan perundangan yang masa ini serta berlawanan juga dengan hanya dapat di-telan oleh mereka yang concept mewujudkan sa-buah Kerajaan tidak memikirkan asas bagi perun­ Pusat yang kuat. Saya nampak bahawa dangan yang sihat. Tuan Yang di- 2 Pertua, berasaskan kapada itu ada sebab -nya di-kemukakan chadangan 2 saperti ini ia-lah kerana orang2 di- baik-nya Rang Undang ini di-fikirkan sa-mula oleh Kerajaan, dan kemuka- daerah Borneo itu merasa khuatir akan 2 masok-nya orang2 dari negeri lain ka- kan kapada Dewan ini satu undang 1521 21 AUGUST 1963 1522 yang menyatakan bahawa oleh kerana yang saya sebutkan tadi, saya tidak menghormati kekhuatiran dan kesang- bersetuju dengan undang2 ini. sian-nya bagi menerima beberapa kepentingan tempatan bagi orang yang Tuan Haji Azahari bin Haji Ibrahim maseh belum maju, maka undang2 ini (Kubang Pasu Barat): Tuan Yang di- Pertua, saya bangun menyokong Rang kita kemukakan supaya orang yang Undang2 ini. Soal immigration sangat jenis ini tidak dapat di-benarkan pergi penting kapada satu2 negara untok pindah ka-kawasan Borneo dengan mengawal kemasokan orang2 luar ka­ mudah, melainkan dengan kebenaran pada negara itu. Jadi dalam soal kita Kerajaan Negeri. hendak membinchangkan Rang Un­ dang2 ini, maka patut-lah kita memi- Saya fikir itu ada-lah satu solution kirkan ia-itu Kerajaan Persekutuan yang lebeh baik di-kemukakan oleh yang sedang mewujudkan Malaysia Kerajaan kapada Parlimen ini daripada 2 ini ada-lah dengan mempunyai pe- mengemukakan satu Rang Undang rasaan tanggong-jawab dan memberi yang mengumumkan manusia tidak 2 2 kerjasama kapada wilayah yang boleh pergi ka-mana dalam kawasan hendak masok menjadi Persekutuan Borneo, melainkan manusia yang kechil Malaysia. Jadi dengan keadaan bilangan-nya itu. Saya tidak-lah sam- yang macham ini, maka dapat-lah pai bagitu jauh hendak menudoh kita sekarang mengatakan satu Un­ Kerajaan ini mempunyai "sinister dang2 Imigreshen bagi menjaga ke­ motive" atau sa-bagai-nya di-dalam pentingan negeri2 saperti Sarawak dan mengemukakan Bab 7 yang ada di- 2 2 Borneo yang mana negeri itu berke- dalam Rang Undang ini. Tetapi, saya hendakkan kapada satu kawalan yang fikir elok benar-lah di-perhatikan oleh rapi terhadap kemasokan orang2 luar, Kerajaan tentang "wording" yang ada bukan sahaja daripada luar Malaysia, dalam Bab 7 itu, sebab kalau kita bahkan orang2 dalam Malaysia, melihat satu ayat ia-itu: sebab-nya ia-lah kita boleh memikir- "Sub-section (1) of section 6 shall not kan di-atas kejadian2 dan kedudokan2 have effect in relation to a citizen of the yang berlaku baharu2 ini dalam Federation entering the Borneo State for the wilayah2 yang tersebut. Umpama-nya, sole purpose of engaging in legitimate 2 political activity; but the burden of proof manakala Rombongan Bangsa Ber- that a person is entitled to enter the Borneo satu (United Nations) tiba di-sana State under this section shall lie on him." untok menyiasat hasrat ra'ayat wilayah itu, maka kita tahu ada "For the sole purpose" bukan-lah satu beberapa gulongan yang mengadakan perkara yang senang. "Sole purpose" tunjok perasaan dan sa-bagai-nya. berhajat kapada batasan yang nyata sa-saorang pergi bagi dua maksud. Maka di-sini dapat-lah kita Yang pertama, dia pergi ka-Borneo mengerti ia-itu sa-kira-nya sa-suatu kerana hendak bersharah dalam politik, negeri, terutama sa-kali wilayah dan yang kedua dia sa-orang business­ Borneo itu jika di-dedahkan kapada man. Bagaimana-kah dia hendak satu keadaan yang boleh membawa menjalankan ranchangan kerja2 politik- orang2 luar masok dalam negeri itu, nya yang apabila perkataan "sole" itu maka sudah tentu-lah negeri itu mem­ ada, maka dengan sendiri-nya Kerajaan punyai kebimbangan terhadap ke­ Negeri dapat menahan-nya? Kata-nya masokan orang2 yang hendak, bukan pukul 4.00 tuan bersharah politik, sahaja masok, bahkan membawa pukul 3.00 tuan membuat transaction ideology atau pun fahaman2 yang business. Kalau bagitu "it was not for bertentangan dengan kehendak the sole purpose of engaging in legi­ ra'ayat sa-bagaimana yang saya tahu timate political activity". Keadaan ia-lah fahaman2 kominis umpama- yang saperti itu ada-lah menyempitkan. nya. Jadi dengan timbul perasaan ma­ Itu-lah sebab-nya, maka saya kata cham ini-lah, maka saya fikir pehak pemikiran yang halus perlu di-dalam Kerajaan wilayah Borneo itu ber- membuat undang2 saperti ini, dan saya kehendakkan Kerajaan kita mengada­ perchaya sa-lagi undang2 ini berkeadaan kan satu undang2 bagi mengawal ke­ saperti demikian, maka dengan asas pentingan mereka. 1523 21 AUGUST 1963 1524 Pada pendapat saya, Tuan Yang sempadan di-antara Siam dengan di-Pertua, manakala mendengar Kedah, atau pun di-antara Siam hujah2 daripada pehak Pembangkang, dengan Persekutuan Tanah Melayu saya dapati mereka itu ta' suka ka­ dengan chara mengadakan post ten- pada sekatan yang tertentu dalam tera, atau pun pasokan keselamatan Rang Undang2 ini terhadap soal2 ter- supaya orang2 dari luar yang hendak sebut dengan memben beberapa masok ka-negeri ini melalui penye- chontoh, atau section2 dalam Rang ludupan, atau pun dengan chara Undang2 ini. Jadi kesimpulan-nya, haram, dapat-lah di-kawal oleh kita memikirkan boleh-lah pehak pehak2 tentera atau pun Polis Kesela­ Pembangkang itu mengadakan ia-itu matan; jadi ini-lah yang saya suka dengan membebaskan kemasokan menarek perhatian Kerajaan ini. Dan orang2 yang ta' di-ingini itu ka- juga baharu2 ini mengikut apa yang wilayah2 tersebut. telah di-reportkan, atau pun di-nyata- kan oleh surat khabar ia-itu Jabatan Lagi satu perkara, Tuan Yang di- Immigration sendiri telah memberi Pertua, kita dengar baharu2 ini kete- pengakuan ia-itu ada-nya penyelu- rangan dari Yang Berhormat Timba- dupan dalam negeri ini dari orang2 lan Perdana Menteri yang mengata- Indonesia yang masok di-Persekutuan kan undang2 ini ada dua bahagian Tanah Melayu melalui Pulau Pinang ia-itu satu daripada tujuan-nya yang dengan chara haram dan orang2 itu kita bentangkan dalam Rang Undang2 datang dengan tujuan hendak me- ini ia-lah kerana kita hendak meluas- ngambil ubat, atau pun mendapatkan kan undang2 immigration kapada rawatan penyakit kusta. Jadi ini satu wilayah2 lain juga, saperti Singapura perkara yang patut menarek perhatian dan termasok juga wilayah2 Borneo. Kerajaan kita, kerana kita bimbang Jadi, di-sini saya ingin-lah hendak pada masa sekarang ini jiran2 yang ber- menarek perhatian kapada pehak sempadan dengan kita yang kita Kerajaan, terutama sa-kali tentang anggap sa-bagai sahabat, ada ke- undang2 yang kita adakan pada masa mungkinan yang mereka itu menjadi sekarang ini ia-itu yang di-amalkan musoh kita. Dengan sebab itu, patut- oleh Kerajaan Persekutuan yang mana lah kita adakan kawalan yang lebeh ini ada-lah undang2 yang di-jadikan rapi lagi, dan satu perkara lagi ia-lah sa-bagai satu kawalan terhadap kema­ berhubong dengan kawalan yang kita sokan orang2 luar dari Persekutuan hendak adakan di-Singapura dan Tanah Melayu yang mana ada Rang Undang2 ini akan memberi sekatan2 di-pintu negeri, atau di- kuat-kuasa undang2 immigration yang muka2 negeri umpama-nya, kita ada­ ada sekarang, di-Persekutuan Tanah kan kawalan di-sempadan2 negeri Melayu akan berjalan kuat-kuasa- Siam, atau Thailand dengan Malaya, nya di-Singapura juga. Jadi tentang juga Pulau Pinang dengan lapangan2 perkara ini saya juga mempunyai kapal terbang-nya. Jadi, kalau-lah kebimbangan, kalau-lah kita tidak kita hanya mengadakan undang2 adakan kawalan yang lebeh rapi lagi. immigration ini sa-bagai kawalan Biar-lah saya menarek perhatian yang saya sebutkan tadi, saya fikir ini Dewan ini ia-itu sa-masa kita dudok tentu-lah ta' memadai, dengan kerana di-dalam pemerentahan Jepun dahulu, pehak yang hendak masok pada satu2 pada masa itu negeri2 Melayu ada-lah negeri itu dengan sa-chara menye- di-bawah kuasa penjajah yang di- ludupi, atau pun dengan chara haram, pimpin oleh High Commissioner for tentu-lah ta' dapat masok ka-negeri the Malay States. Pada masa itu itu melalui' pintu2 yang ada mem- High Commissioner bagi Negeri2 punya'i sekatan kerana pehak Melayu menjadi Governor bagi pegawai2 di-situ ada kuasa-nya sa­ Negeri2 Seiat juga dengan kedudokan perti yang ada di-dalam undang2 kuasa yang di-beri kapada-nya oleh immigration ini. Jadi kita berharap pemerentahan pada masa itu, maka pada Kerajaan supaya di-adakan kita dapati High Commissioner ini, kawalan yang lebeh rapi di- kaiau ta' salah saya, dia bernama Sir perenggan2 saperti perenggan, atau Shenton Thomas yang telah menjalan- 1525 21 AUGUST 1963 1526 kan kuasa-nya dengan memasokkan why the Honourable Deputy Prime beberapa banyak orang2 luar melalui Minister says that to travel through Singapura dan dengan kesan yang international waters one requires saperti itu, kita dapati negeri ini ada a permit. I don't quite see the point mempunyai dua jenis ra'ayat, satu and I hope that, if the Deputy ra'ayat yang maseh lagi menumpukan Prime Minister is satisfied that this ta'at setia-nya pada negeri asal-nya, type of travel is not subject to dan satu lagi ra'ayat yang ingin hen- extra international requirements, the dak hidup dan menumpukan ta'at Government will allow any citizen to setia-nya pada negeri ini buat sa- just buy his ticket from the Malayan lama2-nya. Maka sekarang ini, Saya Airways and go to the Borneo terri­ harap-lah perkara yang sa-macham tories—just like that, no need to have itu ta' akan berlaku lagi di-Singapura any permit. I hope the Deputy Prime kerana saya bimbang, barangkali Minister can tell us whether he is dengan kemasokan orang2 dengan prepared to do this. chara yang saya sebutkan itu sa-bagai The next point I wish to raise is chontoh akan berlaku lagi manakala the question of people migrating to terwujud-nya Malaysia kelak, dan ada 2 the Borneo territories for the purpose kemungkinan kemasokan orang luar of working there. I am aware that the sa-chara haram yang saperti itu Deputy Prime Minister comes from melalui Pulau Singapura, sebab kita Pahang and that he has said to us tidak adakan kawalan yang tertentu time and again that he would wel­ bagi perjalanan, atau pun kemasokan, come people from the other States of atau pun lalu-lintas di-antara Singa­ Malaya to go to Pahang. He has also pura dengan Persekutuan Tanah said that the development of Pahang Melayu. would benefit by the people who are willing to go there from the other Enche' Liu Yoong Peng (Rawang): States of Malaya. Therefore, if we Mr Chairman, Sir, just now the take his argument to its logical con­ Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister clusion, I am sure that with his power raised the point that in order to travel of persuasion he should be able to to the high seas, there should be some get the Ministers in the Bornean terri­ form of permit. I wish to point out tories to see the matter in the same that if Malaysia is going to be one way as we do here. country, then the citizens travelling within the country should be free to Dato' Mohamed Hanifah bin Haji do so. At present, if I travel from Abdul Ghani (Pasir Mas Hulu): Tuan Kuala Lumpur to Penang by plane, Yang di-Pertua, saya bangun menentang Immigration Bill ini, kerana apabila I just go to the Malayan Airways, 2 buy my ticket and go to Penang; in di-kaji tiap clause, maka kita dapati the same way, I can come back to bahawa sangat-lah ganjil bentok Malay­ sia ini kerana ra'ayat di-sekat untok Kuala Lumpur. I do not have to get 2 a permit. So, I see no reason why the pergi ka-satu wilayah. Umpama-nya, same procedure cannot be applied. orang Federation ini tidak boleh pergi For instance, if I want to travel to ka-wilayah Borneo, melainkan orang Sarawak or to Sabah, and I go by yang tertentu sa-bagaimana yang ter- Malayan Airways, I am going from sebut dalam Clauses 6 dan 7, itu pun one of the States of Malaysia to an­ melalui kebenaran pehak Immigration. other State of Malaysia. Therefore, I Maka dengan penyekatan ini tidak-lah am not going to a foreign country. berma'ana pendudok Malaysia sa- bagai satu negara yang mempunyai" And, so far as the aircraft is con­ 2 cerned, if it is the aircraft of Malayan ra'ayat satu bahkan bersuku . Airways, then the nationality of the Tuan Yang di-Pertua, alang-kah aircraft is Malaysian and not a cherdek dan pintar-nya orang2 di- foreign country. So far as the air is Borneo, sebab mereka boleh masok concerned, the air over the high seas ka-Federation ini dan mereka boleh belongs to nobody, and so, it is under jadi ra'ayat Malaysia, tetapi kita tidak nobody's control. So I don't see boleh pergi ka-wilayah2 itu. Apa-kah 1527 21 AUGUST 1963 1528 ma'ana-nya ini, Tuan Yang di-Pertua? sa-lama empat hari dan Rang Undang2 Ini ma'ana-nya gergaji bermata dua. Immigration ini ada-lah sa-bahagian Mereka masok Malaysia dengan men- daripada perjanjian yang telah di-tanda dapat faedah yang tertentu. Maka kita tangani di-London dahulu. Jadi saya di-sekat2 dengan kawalan2 yang ter­ fikir, kalau-lah undang2 immigration ini tentu. Saya memang-lah bersetuju di-tolak, berma'ana-lah yang kita ini dengan Yang Berhormat dari Kubang menolak Malaysia dan sa-terus-nya. Pasu Barat yang menyatakan perlu-nya kawalan2 yang keras di-adakan bagi Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tadi tidak- negeri kita dari kemasokan orang2 dari lah berchadang hendak berchakap, te­ negeri luar. Saya bersetuju dalam per- tapi oleh kerana ada satu chabaran yang kara itu, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kerana di-keluarkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat kita tidak berkehendakkan orang dari Menglembu yang mengatakan ia- menyeludup masok dalam negeri kita itu ia berharap supaya Malaysia ini ini, tetapi apa yang mendukachitakan gagal, dan dapat-lah satu parti lain saya ia-lah dalam negara kita sendiri memerentah negeri ini yang akan me- kita di-kawal dan di-sekat2. Ini-lah ngemukakan Rang Undang2 yang sesuai sebab-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pehak yang di-kehendaki oleh ra'ayat negeri Persatuan Islam sa-Tanah Melayu ini. Jadi, saya terperanjat besar, Tuan menentang Malaysia ini, kerana bentok- Yang di-Pertua, sebab chabaran itu nya tidak-lah saperti negara yang kita datang-nya daripada satu parti yang harapkan ia-itu ra'ayat mendapat pengaroh-nya di-Malaya ini makin lama faedah yang sama di-dalam negara makin merusot. Parti P.P.P. ini mengi- Malaysia itu. Hatta sa-kira-nya "Abu kut keputusan pilehan raya yang telah Nawas" itu tentu-lah beliau ketawa lalu, nampak-nya ta' ada tempat bagi melihat telatah pemimpin Tanah parti-nya itu berkembang dalam Per- Melayu ini, sebab kalau berhadapan sekutuan Tanah Melayu yang ada dengan pehak Pembangkang di-sini sekarang ini, chuma pengaroh-nya itu mereka menunjokkan belang dan di-Ipoh sahaja dan di-situ-lah had-nya. tareng-nya, tetapi bila berunding dengan penganjor di-wilayah Borneo Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soal yang kita dan abang angkat-nya, penjajah, maka hadapi sekarang ini, ada-kah kita hen­ mereka menjadi kura2 kepala-nya dak memerdekakan negeri2 di-Borneo masok ka-dalam. Maka ini-lah sebab- itu melalui Malaysia, atau tidak. Nam­ nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, pehak pak-nya ada macham2 hujah yang telah Persatuan Islam sa-Tanah Melayu di-keluarkan ia-itu undang2 immigration menentang Immigration Bill ini, kerana ini, ada yang mengatakan sa-bagai tidak sa-suai dengan bentok Malaysia yang telah di-terangkan oleh Ahli Yang yang di-tujukan sa-benar2-nya oleh Berhormat yang telah berchakap ter- ra'ayat dalam negeri ini. dahulu daripada saya, berat sa-belah, ada yang menguntongkan dan ada yang Enche' Mohamed bin Ujang (Jelebu- tidak menguntongkan di-Borneo itu. Jempol): Tuan Yang di-Pertua Sekarang ini ada dua soal sahaja, ada- 2 Mr Speaker: Saya dapati ada Ahli2 kah kita hendak memerdekakan ra'ayat Yang Berhormat daripada pagi tadi di-Borneo itu sekarang atau tidak. Itu berchakap di-atas point itu juga ber- yang menjadi soal. Dalam pembukaan pusing2, belum ada satu point baharu usul ini, Yang Berhormat Timbalan Perdana Menteri telah menerangkan di-keluarkan. Kalau tuan hendak ber­ 2 chakap point itu juga tolong rengkas- dengan jelas-nya bahawa undang kan sahaja. immigration ini ada-lah hasil daripada perundingan yang bebas yang tidak di- Enche' Mohamed bin Ujang (Jelebu- pengarohi oleh sa-siapa ia-itu di-antara Jempol): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tatkala satu pehak dengan satu pehak yang membahathkan Rang Undang2 Immi­ lain. Jadi, kalau kita berunding, be- gration ini, kita patut-lah ingat ia-itu runding-lah nama-nya, dan ini mesti-lah baharu2 ini kita telah menerima dan ada tolak ansor. Kalau kita berkehen­ meluluskan usul perjanjian Malaysia dakkan pehak itu sahaja, itu bukan yang telah di-bahathkan di-Dewan ini berunding nama-nya. Jadi saya rasa 1529 21 AUGUST 1963 1530 apa yang ada pada undang2 yang di- Federation of Malaya would still be a kemukakan sekarang ini ia-lah satu colony of Great Britain, because it is a undang2 yang chukup menasabah dari- well-known fact that the Malays in this pada keadaan-nya yang ada sekarang country are behind the other races, who ini. have become citizens of the country, in Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya sendiri that they could not avail themselves of memang-lah tidak bersetuju supaya the opportunities that are in this country. sekatan yang di-adakan kapada ra'ayat However, when planning for independ­ Malaysia untok pergi ka-sasuatu tempat ence for Malaya, the UMNO, the di-Malaysia ini, tetapi mengikut ke- M.C.A., and the M.I.C. know that in adaan sekarang ini sa-bagai yang saya independent Malaya the special position katakan itu, patut-lah kita menerima- of the Malays should be perpetuated so nya pada masa ini, kerana saya katakan as to allow the Malays to avail them­ peringkat ini, kalau hendak mengikut selves of equal opportunities. If we had kehendak-nya sahaja, Malaysia ini ta' accepted the suggestion made by the akan dapat di-ujudkan. Member for Menglembu, then I am sure that we would still never have The Minister of Internal Security and independence in this country—that is Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr to say to wait until the Malays are of Ismail): Mr Speaker, Sir, I did mention equal standard to the other races before that the Borneo territories would like we get independence. In other words, to be federated with us in the same way Sir, he is indirectly encouraging all as the other States of the Federation these colonies to wait until they are fit with certain safeguards. This is one of for independence. That, Sir, is a slogan the safeguards asked for by these that is always put forward by the people. Now, I think that the people in colonial powers: they say that the the Borneo territories have shown more people are not fit, to wait until they political maturity than the Honourable are ready, and then independence will Member for Menglembu for, at least, be given to them. There is one thing the people in the Borneo territories which we have heard in the United recognise that independence through Nations from those who fought for the Malaysia is better than to be under the freedom of the colonial people: they colonial yoke. say that self-government is better than Sir, the Honourable Member for good government so long as it is not a Menglembu has suggested that these colony. So, Sir, we can see from the people should have waited until they argument put forward by the Member are ready to be on equal terms with us for Menglembu that he is less mature in before they join us and, therefore, gain politics than those people in Borneo. their independence. The crux of the whole problem is whether we can build Di-atas tegoran dari Ahli Yang Ber- a united nation out of those territories hormat dari parti PAS, di-sini saya in the future Malaysia, where the people berasa hairan, kerana mengikut pan- are given equal opportunities when not dangan, atau pun fahaman parti PAS itu all of them are able to avail themselves ma'ana-nya chuma orang2 yang mengi­ of the equal opportunities. Now, in kut parti PAS sahaja-lah yang boleh order to avail themselves of the equal di-beri perlindongan, tetapi bagi orang2 opportunities, one must give these peo­ yang di-wilayah2 Borneo sana ma'ana- ple equal standard. I did mention the nya sunggoh pun orang2 itu patut di- last time the good example drawn from beri perlindongan, tetapi kata-nya ta' the game of golf, whereby you handi­ usah di-beri kapada mereka itu. Sebab, cap people according to their ability so kalau kita mengikut parti PAS atau that, to win a cup, a member with a policy PAS, selalu-nya di-dalam negeri handicap of 18 has as equal a chance yang merdeka ini, orang2 Melayu as a member with a single handicap of terkebelakang dan tertindas dan apabila doing so. Now, if we were to wait for wilayah2 di-Borneo itu ia-itu Sabah dan everyone to be able to avail himself of Sarawak meminta perlindongan ini the equal opportunities before a country supaya di-beri masa kapada mereka itu can get independence, I am sure the supaya jangan mereka itu terbenam, 1531 21 AUGUST 1963 1532 jangan terkebelakang dalam Malaysia prov1s1ons of this Bill are not very ini nanti, oh! mereka kata, ta' usah desirable, but in order to allay the fears beri, ma'ana-nya kerana parti PAS itu and anxieties of the people of the hendak berkuasa di-sana nampak-nya, Borneo territories we have to have dan itu-lah sebab-nya saperti kata these provisions. However, I would like orang puteh, "policy dog in the to make it clear to this House that the manger." Immlgration Department will be a Now, on the other point raised by Federal Department, and the Federal the Honourable Member for Meng­ Government will see to it that immigra­ lembu about the rights of politicians tion to these territories will be admi­ to enter the Borneo territories, or the nistered in such a way as to cause no States of Borneo. Sir. I am sure it is unnecessary inconvenience to the people not beyond the ability of the politicians wanting to travel to those territories. in this country, whether they .are on I am sure the people of Sabah and the Opposition or on the Government Sarawak will have no objection to bench, to prove that they are politicians people going on travels to those terri­ going to the Borneo territories for tories. What they fear is people going legitimate political purposes. Of course, to stay there, to work there and take if some political parties try to do some away certain jobs that are meant for subversive work in the Borneo terri­ their own people there. We know very tories, that is covered by the Internal well that, as the Honourable Member Security Act which, as you know, is for Rawang so kindly stated, I a preserve of the Central Government. have often said that we welcome So, I shall take care of that for you. the people to come to my home Thank you very much. (Laughter). State of Pahang, but in spite of that very few people from the West, Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Sir, on a from Kuala Lumpur in particular, will point of clarification about this aspect. venture to go to the East Coast to What I am saying is that if I go to settle there. It will be the same way Penang, although it is still under your in the case of the Borneo territories. control, I can go free, but why is it The Borneo territories are being sepa­ that if I want to go to the Borneo rated from us by thousands of miles, territories I have to get a special and it will be difficult to get people permit? That is the point. here to go and settle in those territories, even if they are allowed to do so. The Mr Chairman: That point can be replied by the Mover. I think it is time only question is the question of the to suspend the Sitting. employment of labour, and that as I have indicated is this: if there is not Sitting suspended at 11.42 a.m. sufficient labour from the Borneo terri­ tories themselves, it is quite obvious Sitting resumed at 12 noon. that they will have to find labour from the other parts of Malaysia-and the (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Federal Government has the power to stop the import of labour from outside Debate resumed. Malaysia if labour is available within Malaysia. Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr Speaker, Sir, my Honourable colleague the The other point which I wish to Minister of Internal Security has ade­ explain is the question of having travel quately replied to the criticisms made documents. I think Members of the by the Opposition on this Bill. In fact, Opposition are under a misconception there is not much of a criticism from on this point as saying that they can the Opposition except on this one travel about without a travel document. point-that is, they object to this Bill But, as I said just now in regard to because they feel that it is against the the Borneo territories that whatever principle of a united nation. As I said, happens, if we have not this Immigra­ when introducing this Bill, we on this tion Bill, we shall have to have internal side of the House feel that certain travel documents, because we will be 1533 21 AUGUST 1963 1534 crossing international waters and the Melayu ini orang2 Pantai Barat yang practice is that we must have interna­ di-bandar2 susah hendak pindah ka­ tional travel documents. Pantai Timor kerana mereka itu biasa dengan keadaan yang senang dan The Honourable Member for Telok 2 Anson has raised the question of kemudahan hidup di-bandar. referees for getting travel documents Jadi, jika kita pandang Rang and passes. Sir, I can assure him that Undang2 ini dengan fikiran yang tenang, no such referee or recommendation saya fikir tentu perkara2 itu tidak akan will be required for applicants for menjadi kesusahan yang amat sangat internal travel documents and no kapada kita di-Tanah Melayu ini,

recommendation would be 1necessary. kerana saperti yang saya katakan tadi If the applicant is a bona fide applicant kalau kita hendak pergi melawat ka­ his application will generally be sana tidak ada apa2 galangan, chuma approved. mesti ada "internal travel document", Yang Berhormat dari Bachok ada itu macham mana pun kita mesti ada, bertanya berkenaan dengan Fasal 7 ia-itu di-kehendaki taroh "chop internal ia-itu "sole purpose of engaging in travel document" membenarkan kita legitimate political activity". Jadi melawat Sabah atau Sarawak. Saya dalam Fasal 7 itu kalau sa-saorang fikir itu sahaja pandangan Ahli2 Yang hendak pergi ka-Sabah dan Sarawak Berhormat dalani perkara ini yang kerana hendak menjalankan pekerjaan patut saya jawab. - politik dia ada hak atau entitle to go, Question put, and agreed to. tetapi kalau kerana tujuan yang lain ter­ Bill accordingly read a second time paksa-lah dia mendapat kebenaran and c..ommitted to a Committee of the menurut fasal2 yang lain dalam Rang whole House. Undang2 ini. Jadi, saperti saya telah terangkan tadi Pejabat lmigreshen itu House immediately resolved itself ada-lah pejabat Federal. Jadi, Kera­ into a Committee on the Bill. jaan Persekutuan akan memerhatikan Bill considered in Committee. dalam menjalankan fasal2 dalam Rang (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Undang2 ini supaya tidak akan mem­ beri kesusahan kapada orang2 yang Clauses I to 4- hendak pergi ka-wilayah Sabah dan Enche' V. David (Bungsar): Mr Sarawak. Dan bagi pehak Kerajaan Chairman, Sir, I oppose clauses 1 to 4 sana pun saya fikir dan saya menge­ on grounds that it is the firm belief tahu1 mereka itu tidak hendak meng­ 2 of my Party that the purpose of this galang orang di-sini, sekarang ini pun, Bill and its intention are sinister in pergi ka-sana kerana me'awat dan character. Sir, a few days ago, the kerana hendak dudok sementara. Yang Minister of Internal Security did say mereka itu tidak berkehendakkan ia­ that people could move about in the lah orang dari tempat lain datang 2 Bornean territories on legitimate dudok berlama di-sana dan membuat purpose, but he is not an unbiased atau mengambil pekerjaan yang di­ authority to decide what is legitimate kehendaki oleh pendudok di-sana, akan and what is illegitimate. Persons going tetapi jika tidak ada pendudok di­ in the usual manner to the Bornean sana yang hendak menjadi kuli atau territories can be considered as for the membuat pekerjaan yang lain umpama­ purpose of subversive activities. So, nya tentu-lah orang itu akan di-bawa therefore, I feel strongly that this Bill daripada negeri2 yang lain dalam and the contents of the clauses, as Malaysia ke!ak. Jadi, saperti yang saya stated, are sinister and with ulterior sebutkan tadi tidak ada galangan sa­ intention. macham itu dalam Rang Undang2 ini. Biasa-nya payah bagi orang2 Tanah Clauses I to 4 ordered to stand part Melayu, terutama sa-kali orang dari of the Bill. bandar hendak pergi ka-tempat saperti Clauses 5 to 8- Sabah dan Sarawak itu. Kita boleh Enche' V. Veerappen: Mr Chairman, perhatikan di-Persekutuan Tanah Sir, clause 6 (1) says that no citizen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~,,/ 1535 21 AUGUST 1963 1536 of the Federation of Malaya shall be akan menggunakan, oleh sebab tidak entitled to enter a Borneo State with­ ada perkataan "sole" yang mengguna­ out a Permit or a Pass. Just now the kan perjalanan di-sana bagi maksud Honourable Deputy Prime Minister subversive dan sa-bagai-nya, maka corrected me saying that this was kita tahu bahawa undang2 ini tidak necessary because the persons were membatalkan, bahkan mengekalkan travelling through international waters undang2 yang asal bagi kuasa immi­ and a travel document was essential, gration yang ada pada Federal Govern­ and I swallowed the whole thing. But ment untok menchegah kemasokan Mr Chairman, Sir, if it is necessary for sa-siapa pun di-dalam sa-suatu tempat other citizens to have a permit or travel bagi maksud yang berlawanan dengan document, then how is it that those who kepentingan national. Jadi, saya rasa are mentioned in this category need Timbalan Perdana Menteri akan dapat not have a permit or a travel document. memberi hujah-nya yang kuat tentang Do they not come under the same perkataan "sole" ini yang boleh di- international law? I would like a salah-gunakan. clarification. Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Tuan Penge­ Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr Chair­ rusi, tentang perkataan "sole", ini ada- man, Sir, clause 14 (1) says that the lah mustahak di-adakan di-sini, kerana Minister shall make arrangements for kalau tidak nanti, sa-saorang yang hendak pergi ka-sana akan mendapat the issue to citizens of travel document 2 to travel within the Federation. hak masok ka-wilayah Borneo itu walau pun kerana hendak menjalankan Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: pekerjaan subversive dan dia akan Tuan Pengerusi, saya maseh ingin men- membuat pekerjaan2 yang lain juga dapat penjelasan daripada Timbalan dan ini bukan sebab kita takut yang Perdana Menteri berkenaan dengan orang ini pergi berniaga atau buat clause 7 ini. Saya maseh merasa pekerjaan2 yang lain. Jadi, kalau pergi bahawa perkataan "sole" yang ada di- di-sana, dia buat pekerjaan2 yang lain, dalam clause 7 ini akan membolehkan tentu-lah dia berkehendakkan kebena- sama ada Kerajaan Negeri Borneo, ran menurut sharat2 yang lain. Clause atau pun pehak immigration di-Perse- tujoh ini hanya-lah memberi hak kutuan ini menyekat perjalanan legiti­ kapada orang yang hendak menjalankan mate political activity sa-kira-nya legitimate political activity. Jadi, kita di-dapati sa-saorang itu melakukan tentu-lah ta' hendak orang itu meng­ sa-suatu yang lain, saperti perniagaan, gunakan hak legitimate political activity atau menziarah dan sa-bagai-nya di- ini berselindong dengan tujuan2 yang dalam kawasan2 Borneo itu di-samping lain, itu sudah tepat-lah ta' betul political activity-nya. dengan maksud undang2 ini. Tuan Pengerusi, kawasan Borneo itu Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad: ada-lah satu kawasan yang jauh dari­ Tuan Pengerusi, keterangan yang di- pada Persekutuan Tanah Melayu ini, tunjokkan oleh Timbalan Perdana dan kalau kita pergi ka-Borneo sa-mata2 Menteri itu menyebabkan saya memin- dengan sole purpose of engaging in legi­ ta satu assurance daripada beliau di- timate political activity, boleh jadi dalam Dewan ini yang mengatakan kurang mengambil untong dari pehak bahawa jurisdiction yang hendak di- kita yang pergi dengan baik di-sana. jalankan kerja2 bagi legitimate political Jadi, dengan maksud itu, saya fikir activity ini tidak akan berjalan daripada kalau Kerajaan dapat menimbangkan pergi ka-kawasan Borneo, kalau sa- dengan halus-nya, maka ta' ada-lah kira-nya dia pergi itu ada pula maksud bahaya-nya sa-kira-nya di-sebutkan: lain yang ringan yang tidak berlawanan "shall not have effect in relation to a dengan kepentingan negeri Sarawak dan citizen of the Federation entering the Borneo Sabah di-dalam labour dan business State for the sole purpose of engaging in umpama-nya, maka kata-lah saya sen- legitimate political activity;" diri, saya pun sa-memang berniat Kalau di-katakan umpama-nya ini akan hendak pergi ka-Borneo itu—I cannot menyusahkan, sebab ada orang2 yang say that I will go there for the sole 1537 21 AUGUST 1963 1538 purpose of legitimate political activity. Schedule. At the end of paragraph 6 Saya hendak melawat ka-Borneo kerana to add "and accordingly in sub­ hendak mengkaji peristiwa kehidupan section (1) of section 20 for the mereka itu, dan boleh jadi for educa­ reference 'paragraph (a), (b) or (c)' tional purpose or for social purpose. there shall be substituted the reference Jadi, melainkan kalau Timbalan Per- 'paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (J)'." I have dana Menteri dapat memberikan circulated an amendment slip to the assurance maka bahawa itu tidak effect to Honourable Members and I merosakkan perkataan sole purpose have also given the explanation there­ itu; saya rasa undang2 ini akan tetap in. 2 merbahaya kapada orang itu. (EXPLANATION: Section 19 (1) of the Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Tuan Penge- Immigration Ordinance, 1959, forbids rusi, saya fikir kalau sa-saorang yang anybody to board or leave a newly hendak pergi ka-sana kerana pekerjaan arrived vessel before clearance by an politik dan juga hendak melawat bagitu immigration officer, and section 20 (1) bagini, saya fikir itu tidak menjadi forbids the master to allow anybody to halangan, tetapi clause 7 ini ia-lah do so: both are subject to the excep­ memberi hak. Jadi, kalau kita hendak tions in section 19 (1) (a) to (c). The buat pekerjaan lain daripada pekerjaan new exception made in section 19 (1) politik, itu kena-lah kita memberitahu, by adding paragraph (d) for consular barangkali dengan pehak immigration officers has to be made also in section kalau hendak melawat di-sana. Saperti 20 (1) by changing the cross-reference yang saya katakan tadi ini tentu-lah to section 19 (1) (a) to (c) into a tidak ada galangan bagi sa-saorang itu reference to section 19 (1) (a) to (d).) hendak melawat di-sana, umpama-nya Question put, and agreed to. hendak pergi berjumpa dengan orang2 di-sana, atau hendak bersosial, itu Schedule, as amended, ordered to sa-memang tidak ada galangan, stand part of the Bill. tetapi kita tidak boleh menda'wa sa- Bill reported with amendment: read bagai hak. Kita hanya-lah boleh the third time and passed. menda'wa sa-bagai hak, kalau kita hendak menjalankan pekerjaan bagi THE CONSOLIDATED FUND parti politik, dan saperti yang di- (EXPENDITURE ON ACCOUNT) sebutkan di-sini ia-lah legitimate poli­ tical activity. Saperti yang saya katakan BILL tadi, saya fikir tidak-lah ada kesukaran Second Reading bagi orang2 yang hendak melawat ka-wilayah2 Borneo itu, melainkan ada The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan tujuan ta' baik, atau pun dengan tujuan Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to hendak dudok di-sana berkekalan move that a Bill intituled "An Act to hendak buat kerja, itu barangkali, apply a sum out of the Consolidated di-larang oleh Kerajaan2 sana, tetapi Fund to the service of the year ending kalau hendak melawat pergi ka-sana, on the 31st day of December, 1964" umpama-nya hendak pergi sosial, atau be read a second time. hendak pergi melihat negeri2 sana, saya In accordance with the practice fikir itu tidak ada kesukaran. which has been followed for the past few years, this Bill is proposed in order Clauses 5 to 8 ordered to stand part to provide transitional authority for of the Bill. Government expenditure for the first Clauses 9 to 12 ordered to stand part two months of 1964, as it is possible of the Bill. that the annual Supply Bill will not Clauses 13 to 16 ordered to stand have passed through both Houses and part of the Bill. received the Royal Assent by the beginning of the new financial year. Schedule— This year I am introducing the Bill Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, I beg earlier than usual, as in consequence to move a slight amendment to the of the formation of Malaysia there will 1539 21 AUGUST 1963 1540 be an unusually large volume of Supply Bill. Therefore, those works business to occupy both this House cannot go ahead and the people who and the Government from now until are to do the work cannot be engaged the end of the year. I am sure Honour­ to do the work. able Members, like myself, will feel Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, happier in the knowledge that the Sir, I rise on a point of order, under comparatively brief but important Standing Order 68A, which reads as legislation contained in the Bill is follows—- safely through and that the expenditure "On the second reading of a Bill introduced requirements of Federal Departments (under paragraph (a) of Article 102 of the in the new States of Malaysia as well Constitution)'—(that is, Expenditure on Ac­ as in existing States have been duly count Bill)'—to authorise expenditure for part of the year, the debate shall not extend to provided for. matters of Government policy and adminis­ It will be noted that in the Schedule tration nor to the purposes for which the sums included in the Bill are required to be to the Bill the provision made for expended." Singapore, Sabah and Sarawak is in the form of only a one-line Head for I think the Honourable Member should each since we are not yet in a position be aware after four years in this to show the individual amounts required House that he will have ample opportu­ by the respective Federal Depertments nity to debate the Estimates in due in these States. These requirements course and this is not the occasion for will of course be fully detailed in the such a debate. Estimates which will be laid before Mr Speaker: It has been the practice the House in due course, together with for the last three years to give an the Supply Bill, and expenditure in advance in case we cannot pass the 1964 will be governed by such Esti­ Supply Bill before the end of the year. mates in the normal manner. Of course, you will have an opportunity Sir, I beg to move. to debate the Estimates when we debate the Supply Bill. The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Ann): Sir, I Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: I am not beg to second the motion. debating the Supply Bill, since there is no Supply Bill before the House; Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Mr Speaker, and since I do not know the details, Sir, this Consolidated Fund (Expendi­ how can I debate the Supply Bill? I ture on Account) Bill is presented am merely saying that the substituting because the Government thinks that of this Bill for the Supply Bill is not they may not have the time to pass going to give us an opportunity to find the Supply Bill by the end of this year. out things for ourselves, and that Sir, I think there is a big difference although in the past years there has in getting the Supply Bill passed before been this practice, this year, even more the year is out and passing this Bill than before, it looks as if there is a now, because when we pass the Supply possibility of the Supply Bill not being Bill we will have ample opportunities introduced before the end of the year. to study all the details connected with So there is, I think, a danger here— the allocation of the money in the that is to say, some of the works that Supply Bill. However, here we only will be carried out in the beginning see a very simple Bill of three sheets of next year will have been carried out of paper and under that we have, under the money provided herein with­ "Parliament $375,000", and out the Parliament having known so forth, but we do not see the exactly what it is all about. That is details as to how this money is going the danger here, which I think is not a to be spent. That is one point. Another very healthy sign. point is that there are a number of jobs and things which require to be Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): Mr done by the Government and which Speaker, Sir, I would like to say a few are pending because there is no money words on the submission of the Bill at allocated for those things in the 1963 this time of the year—we are quite 1541 21 AUGUST 1963 1542 aware that Bills of this nature are it is substituting for our discussion at being submitted out of necessity— the moment—and not that it is going because the Minister of Finance, to substitute forever. I hope he can due to some reason or other, is understand that. unable to tell us before the end of the year how much money is required Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, for the various Departments. It may be Sir, the Honourable Member used the due to incompetency on his part, it may words "substitute for the Supply Bill". be due to genuine causes, such as It is no use trying to get out of it and shortage of staff, or it may be due to to make out that he is not as ignorant inability to reach a decision as to as he is. exactly how much money is required for With regard to the Honourable each specific Department. But we feel, Member for Tanjong, as usual, he runs however difficult it is, that it is the duty true to form. There is nothing extra­ of the Minister concerned to have a ordinary about this Bill, because he good try at it, and only to come to the himself admits that we have done it House when he finds that it is difficult, year after year. The very fact that this if not impossible, to produce a Supply Bill is put before this House does not Bill before the end of the year. As it in any way mean that the Supply Bill is, there are still many months before will not be debated in this House before the end of the year, and to adopt this the end of the year. It is merely a Bill without questioning him will, precautionary measure to ensure that if perhaps, create the impression that as things do not turn out as anticipated Minister of Finance he can do what he there will be something to fall back on. likes in this House and that nobody Another reason for introducing this Bill has the courage to challenge him. I am earlier than usual is that the next telling him here, Sir, that in previous meeting of this House will probably be years we have agreed to it—the year the Budget Meeting, and the reason why before we have agreed to it—but it we will not be able to hold a meeting was not brought up at this time of the in between is, as Honourable Members year; and it is perhaps due to the fact are aware, that the next meeting of this that nobody had raised any objection House will be a meeting of the Malay­ before that he is trying to do what he sian Dewan Ra'ayat and the present likes. I feel, Sir, that this is a genuine Chamber cannot accommodate 55 objection, and as the Minister of additional Members. So, we have got Finance it is his duty, as far as possible, to take precautions although we are, as to try to produce a Supply Bill to us a matter of course, trying to put the before the end of the year, and not to Budget through this House before the take the easy way out by introducing a end of the year. Bill of this nature and to take his own sweet time to put forward the Supply Question put, and agreed to. Bill before this House. Bill accordingly read a second time Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, and committed to a Committee of the Sir, I will deal first with the Honour­ whole House. able Member for Rawang. He was so House immediately resolved itself brilliant that he actually stated that into a Committee on the Bill. this Bill would be a substitute—he did use the word—for the Supply Bill. I Bill considered in Committee. must say that I am amazed by that statement because, after four years in (Mr Speaker in the Chair). this House, he does not even know that we have been doing this year after year. Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand This is not a substitute for the Supply part of the Bill. Bill at all. So much for the brilliance of Schedule ordered to stand part of the the Honourable Member for Rawang. Bill. Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Mr Speaker, Bill reported without amendment: Sir, if you will allow me: I mean that read the third time and passed. 1543 21 AUGUST 1963 1544 THE TARIFF ADVISORY "The entrepot trade of Singapore and Penang is also faced with the prospect of BOARD BILL slow growth or even a decline." Second Reading The Mission therefore considered Enche' Tan Slew Sin: Mr Speaker, that a common market should be Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled established as soon as practicable in "an Act to establish a Tariff Advisory order to ensure an adequate rate of Board for the purpose of giving the economic growth. They considered that Federal Government advice in connec­ a common market would also provide tion with the creation of a common greater opportunities for domestic market in Malaysia and the imposition agriculture by expanding the market and alteration of protective and other for vegetables, fruits, maize, fish and customs duties", be read a second time. livestock products, apart from an expansion of the manufacturing sector What could probably be the most of the economy itself. They considered important economic advantage of that the greatest potential for expan­ Malaysia is the opportunity of accele­ sion lay in this sector, as manufac­ rated industrial development as a turing still forms a relatively small part result of the creation of a larger domes­ of the economy of the States which will tic market. Nevertheless, the economies form Malaysia. of the component units of Malaysia differ widely from heavily populated The Mission appreciated that the and largely urban Singapore to sparsely establishment of a common market populated and primarily agricultural would be a complex process having Sarawak. Furthermore, there are corres­ regard to the different stages of econo­ pondingly wide variations in the tariff mic development of the component structures of the various parts of States and the fiscal diversities resul­ Malaysia, the Federation of Malaya ting therefrom. They, therefore, recom­ having an elaborate tariff structure mended the establishment of an yielding a substantial revenue, whereas autonomous Tariff Board, advisory in the whole of Singapore is a free port character, to consider and make area, although duties are payable on recommendations on the establishment tobacco, alcoholic beverages, petroleum and maintenance of a common market products, soap and paints. in Malaysia. The Federal Government has accepted this recommendation and The problems of economic integra­ has undertaken in the Agreement with tion and the development of the econo­ Singapore, which is published as mic potential of the larger market Command Paper No. 27/63, to take resulting from Malaysia will therefore steps to establish such a Tariff Advi­ be a difficult task. For this reason, the sory Board by law before Malaysia Governments of the Federation and Day. Singapore requested the International If the Board is to carry out its func­ Bank for Reconstruction and Develop­ tions successfully and earn the confi­ ment to send a mission to Malaya to dence of the business community, it is report and make recommendations on essential that the Board should not only the economic aspects of merger. The be knowledgeable, but it should enjoy Report of this Mission, headed by Prof. reasonable independence and be repre­ Jacques Rueff, was published last sentative of the areas and interests month. The Mission concluded that affected by the establishment of the the urgent need for a growth of the common market, and its enquiries and economy adequate to cope with the reports should receive full publicity. rapid increase of population could not The Bill now before this House, which be met by an expansion of the tradi­ incorporates many of the suggestions tional industries, that is, rubber and tin, made by the International Bank and that the entrepot trade of Singa­ Mission, establishes such a Board. pore and Penang could not achieve the necessary rate of expansion. I quote The Board will be a body corporate from their Report: and will be financed by an annual grant 1545 21 AUGUST 1963 1546 provided by Parliament. It will be able tion commits an offence under clause to engage officers and servants which 15 (2) of the Bill. Manufacturers and it considers necessary, subject only to others giving evidence can therefore approval of the terms and conditions rest assured that full and frank dis­ of service by the Minister of Finance. closure of their affairs, which will be The Board itself will consist of four essential to the effective functioning of full-time members and of between 8 the Board, should not damage their and 20 part-time members, all of whom legitimate business interests. will be appointed by His Majesty the Yang di-Pertuan Agong. The Board will be an advisory one as changes in customs duties and re­ During the first five years after lated matters must be a matter for Malaysia is established, the Chairman decision by the Federal Government, of the Board can only be appointed subject where necessary to the approval with the concurrence of the Singapore of this House. Nevertheless, in clause Government. Furthermore, one Deputy 11 of the Bill, it is provided that the Chairman will be nominated by Singa­ Minister must publish every report by pore and one Deputy Chairman nomi­ the Board together with the Govern­ nated jointly by the Governments of ment's decision thereon within six Sabah and Sarawak. These provisions months of its receipt, unless publication have been made in order to ensure that is not in the public interest. This House due account is taken of the vital and the public will therefore be kept interests of these three States. Never­ fully informed of the activities of the theless, I consider that the success of Board. the Board will depend on its sound judgment in regard to the best interests The functions of the Board are set of Malaysia as a whole rather than by out in clauses 5 and 6 of the Bill and the advocacy of regional interests. the factors which the Board must take into account in making its recom­ The independence of the Board is mendations to the Federal Government achieved by the provision that no full- are set out in sub-clause 3 of clause 5. time member may be dismissed without In view of the concern which has been the approval of this House. This will expressed by industrialists and traders provide adequate publicity in the in the present Federation about the unfortunate event of such a dismissal possible effects on their businesses of being considered necessary. Further, it the establishment of a common market is provided that the terms and condi­ with Singapore, I wish to draw the tions of service of full-time members attention of Honourable Members to of the Board cannot be altered to their the provision that one of the objectives disadvantage after their appointment. which the Board must always bear in mind is the need for a balanced The Board's enquiries must nor­ industrial development throughout mally be held in public and clause 10 Malaysia. Clearly, an excessive concen­ allows all interested parties to submit tration of industry in only a small area evidence to it. Nevertheless, it is to the detriment of the remaining areas appreciated that manufacturers and of the country would not be in the traders may not always wish to have best interests of Malaysia as a whole, the full facts regarding their costs and and it will be the policy of the Federal secret processes disclosed, and there­ Government to take such steps as are fore provision is made in sub-clause 6 necessary to achieve its purpose. of clause 10 for evidence to be heard in camera, and such evidence need not In view of the wide differences in be published if the Board considers the tariffs at present in force in the publication not to be in the public different States of Malaysia, manu­ interest or likely to have adverse effects facturers and producers in low tariff on the legitimate interests of those areas would enjoy a comparative giving it. Any member or servant of the advantage as compared with those in Board who makes an unauthorised high tariff areas unless action is taken disclosure of such confidential informa­ to equalise throughout the Federation 1547 21 AUGUST 1963 1548 the fiscal burden borne by all manu­ pore of abnormal quantities of the facturers and producers. It has been goods concerned. This provision will provided therefore in sub-clause 5 of secure full consideration of the mea­ clause 6 that the Board must make re­ sures necessary not only to prevent the commendations to offset the advantages, avoidar.ce of import duties by traders both direct and indirect, enjoyed by in Singapore, but also ensure that manufacturers in low tariff areas, either domestic manufacturers outside Singa­ by means of a production tax or in pore enjoy immediately the full bene­ any other manner which they consider fits of any protective duty which may suitable. It will be the policy of the be imposed in the interests of manu­ Federal Government to ensure that facturers throughout Malaysia. manufacturers of similar products throughout Malaysia should be equally The functions of the Tariff Advisory treated as regards both the direct and Board are related principally to the indirect impact of import duties on establishment of a common market and their costs of manufacture, or that, the establishment and maintenance where the burden differs, other mea­ of a common external tariff of protec­ sures will be taken to equalize the tive duties. The Board will not burden. The task which the Tariff normally be concerned with the level Advisory Board must perform in this of revenue duties which will be the regard will be a difficult one, but an responsibility of the Federal Govern­ equitable solution is essential if the ment. Nevertheless, it is provided in different parts of Ma1aysia are to be clause 7 of the Bill that the Board is treated fairly, one with another, until to carry out a review of the revenue such time as a uniform schedule of duties chargeable in Malaysia before import duties is applicable throughout the end of 1968 with a view to harmo­ all States. nising the duties in force by the end of that year. This provision has been In paragraph 3 (3) of the Agreement made in view of para. 4 (4) of the between the Federation and Singapore Agreement between the Federation of Governments on common market and Malaya and Singapore. During the first financial arrangements, it is provided five years after the establishment of that the Singapore Government shall Malaysia, no new revenue duties can have the right to require a delay of not be imposed in Singapore without the more than 12 months in the imposi­ consent of the Singapore Government tion in Singapore of any protective but thereafter Singapore must com­ duty, if such duty would significantly pensate the Federal Government for prejudice its entrepot trade. If the any revenue loss arising from its Singapore Government exercises this refusal to agree to the imposition of right in respect of any protective duty such duties. which the Federal Government has decided to impose, there would be a Although it is most desirable that serious risk that traders in Singapore steady progress should be made in the a,~ would import excessive quantities of harmonisation of revenue duties the goods in question in the awareness throughout Malaysia during the period that an import duty on such goods ending 31st December, 1968, it is would be imposed in Singapore after a possible that harmonisation will not lapse of 12 months. have been completed by that date. It has been agreed between the two It is provided therefore, Sir, in sub­ Governments therefore that a review of clause 7 of clause 6 of the Bill that the revenue duties in force at that time where the Singapore Government has should be carried out, and it was also given notice that it is likely to require agreed that this review should be made a delay in the imposition of a pro­ by the Tariff Advisory Board as the tective duty in Singapore, then the Board will by then have obtained Board must consider and make recom­ first-hand knowledge of trading condi­ mendations on the steps which should tions in Singapore, and the impact be taken by the Federal Government thereon of the application of the to forestall the importation into Singa- revenue duties imposed in the rest of 1549 21 AUGUST 1963 1550 Malaysia. I wish to stress, however, Malaysia for all goods or products that this review of revenue duties by produced, manufactured, or assembled the Board will be a once and for all in significant quantities in Malaysia. review and the Federal Government This common market will include not will have no further obligation to only Singapore but Penang Island, and consult the Board on the imposition the implementation of this commitment or variation of such duties, although must involve the gradual erosion of the it is at liberty tQ do so if it so desires. free port status at present enjoyed by both. Honourable Members will also note that in sub-clause 3 of clause 5 the Already, the growth of manufactur­ Board is obliged to report on the effect ing industry in the Federation has of any recommendations made by it on caused serious difficulties in Customs the entrepot trade of Singapore, Penang administration, as a result of increased and Labuan. It will be the policy of the incentives to smuggling which is made Federal Government to take all mea­ easy by the adjacent free port areas sures necessary for the preservation of of Penang Island and Singapore. As the the entrepot trade, particularly in range of manufactures grows this Penang and Singapore. Consideration problem will become acute. I have on will have to be given to the creation a number of occasions in the past of a free port zone both in Singapore drawn the attention of traders in and in Penang, and the provision of Penang to the fact that they cannot bonded warehouses and other customs expect their present position to continue facilities necessary to ensure the conti­ indefinitely and now that the Govern­ nuance of the entrepot trade in these ment is committed to the progressive States. The future of the free port of establishment of a common market Labuan will require separate examina­ throughout Malaysia, they must take tion. It is significant, however, that the steps to adjust themselves to the new Ruef! Mission had this to say on the situation which will arise from the subject: imposition of an increasing range of "On the basis of the data collected and of protective duties both on Penang the information submitted by the officials Island and in Singapore. and traders concerned, the Mission has come to the conclusion that Labuan has not been The Government is aware that a able to develop an entrepot trade of a size section of the population of Penang which would justify the maintenance of a Island appears to have some mis­ special regime." givings about the wisdom of including The Mission then gives a brief Penang Island within the proposed description of the nature of the trade common market, one result of which handled by this port and then goes on could be the loss of its free port status. 4 to say: In this connection, we must remember "The Mission does not see any valid that the primary purpose of the free economic reason for maintaining the free port status is the protection of its port status of Labuan, and therefore entrepot trade. If satisfactory safe­ recommends that the island be reincorporated in the Borneo customs area within a guards can be provided to ensure that - reasonable period." this trade is not adversely affected by Penang's inclusion in the common Furthermore, i~ has been agreed that market, it is the view of the Federal the common market should exclude Government, and I am sure that this goods and products whose principal is a view in which all sensible and terminal markets lie outside Malaysia. right thinking people both on Penang This will mean that the entrepot trade Island and on the mainland will concur, in certain primary products, including that the transition from free port to rubber, will continue in Penang and common market would enable Penang Singapore on the same basis as at to have the best of both worlds. She present. Neverthe!ess, the Federal would be able to continue and even Government has undertaken in the develop her entrepot trade, if this is at agreement with Singapore to establish all possible, and at the same time to progressively a common market in industrialise herself by reason of having 1551 21 AUGUST 1963 1552 gained free access to the Malaysian costs, especially costs which result in common market and the much larger the loss of valuable foreign exchange market which such a status would to another country. Let us also remem­ necessarily obtain for her. ber that a large part of Penang's entre­ pot trade, namely 70 per cent,—this In such a case, Penang's only loss figure is based on statistics for the would be the inability of the Island's first quarter of 1963—consists of trade population to obtain duty-free consumer in primary products like rubber, pepper goods. It has been estimated that this copra, arecanuts and tin ore, which in concession costs the Federal Govern­ any case will not be affected at all by ment about $7.28 million a year. As the proposed common market arrange­ the total population of Penang Island ments as it has been agreed that the is about 350,000, the loss of this trade in these products will be allowed concession means that, on an average, to continue on the present basis. the resident of Penang Island will have to give up $20.80 per year or $1.73 I therefore appeal to the people of per month in return for both the pre­ Penang Island not to be swayed by servation of the entrepot trade and the emotion, not to be swayed by appeals opportunity to industrialise success­ from interests who have taken an fully. extremely shortsighted view or who are Let us remember that, according to motivated by personal and, if I may the Rueff Mission, Penang's only hope say so, even selfish interests rather than of economic salvation is to industrialise, the national interest or even the best as its entrepot trade is "faced with the interests of Penang Island itself. This is prospect of slow growth or even a no time to take a parochial view, this decline". In fact, I quoted these words is no time to take the view of the of the Report at the beginning of my proverbial toad in the hole. If Singa­ speech. Surely, this is a small price to pore, which has a far larger entrepot pay for such monumental advantages. trade intimately affecting the lives and The price will barely affect the cost of livelihood of thousands upon thousands living of even the humblest worker on of small traders, could feel the oppo­ Penang Island. It might, however, affect site, that is, its fate would be gradual to a small extent a certain section of economic strangulation without a com­ the trading community, but even then, mon market Penang Island surely has the effects would be marginal and much less to fear. Singapore felt so temporary. It would most certainly strongly about the vital necessity of a affect the smugglers who take advan­ common market for her that she was tage of the proximity of this large prepared to go without merger unless free port area to the mainland to the Federal Government gave a legally smuggle duty-free goods from one to binding commitment to establish a the other and thus undercut the prices common market as rapidly as possible of legitimate importers in Province after Malaysia. She asked for this in Wellesley to their detriment and to the spite of the enormous difficulties, for detriment of the Government and the she knew that such a transition could public of the Federation. cause serious economic dislocation to numerous traders and others dependent It certainly will not affect those who wholly or in part on the entrepot trade. have a legitimate interest in the entre­ She did this not because her Govern­ pot trade. If the transitional provisions ment was unmindful of the interests of which have been agreed for Singapore Singapore, any newspaper reader would are applied to Penang, it should be be aware that the Singapore Prime possible for them to make the necessary Minister was only too conscious of adjustments over a period of time. Let the interests of Singapore, she did this us also remember that as time goes on because her Government, and parti­ this entrepot trade must inevitably cularly her Finance Minister, who is an become smaller and smaller as neigh­ economist of considerable standing, bouring countries develop their own fully realised that without a common ocean ports in an attempt to cut down market, Singapore's economic future 1553 21 AUGUST 1963 1554 was bleak. So it is with Penang, and I Mr Speaker: The question is that the therefore hope that the people of Bill be now read a second time. Penang will, at this historic hour, be The House is suspended until able to take a long and farsighted 4.30 p.m. view, instead of being mesmerised by empty slogans coined by colonial Sitting suspended at 1 p.m. traders in the days when this country was merely a dumping ground for the Sitting resumed at 4.30 p.m. manufactured goods of the ruling Power. I can, however, give an (Mr Speaker in the Chair) assurance that there will be consulta­ THE TARIFF ADVISORY tion with the State Government and BOARD BILL with representatives of the trading community before Penang is brought Second Reading into the Malaysian common market. Debate resumed. The time available for the prepara­ Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: Mr Speaker, tion of this Bill has been extremely Sir, I am not going to speak much on short as the agreement with Singapore this subject now, because I have spoken was only signed in London on 9th July quite a lot about it already. Moreover, last. Further, it has not yet been possi- the Honourable Member for Tanjong able to obtain the services of a suitable also is going to speak and thus there person to perform the duties of Chair­ is no need for me to cover everything man of the Tariff Advisory Board, and at this stage. it must be regarded as probable, in Sir, to begin with, I wish to reply the light of the experience gained in to a remark made by the Honourable the actual functioning of the Board and Minister of Finance. The Honourable the advice given by the Chairman of Minister used the analogy of the pro­ the Board, that amendments will have verbial frog .... (AN HONOURABLE to be made to the present Bill from MEMBER : Toad). Well, Sir, I am afraid time to time. Nevertheless, I am satis­ I have to say that we cannot fied that the Bill provides a sound use the analogy of the frog or toad for basis for the establishment of the Tariff Singapore. I am quite prepared to com­ Advisory Board, and should ensure promise with him and say "amphibious that the numerous interests involved creature of oceanic characteristics" and will receive every due consideration that it is used to the open sea and before decisions are taken in regard to fresh air; and if the Minister of Finance the establishment of a common market intends to put this creature under his in Malaysia. newly devised synthetic coconut shell, The Bill before the House today is then I think he should not blame it for really the foundation upon which we feeling the pinch of the new synthetic hope to build a Malaysian common atmosphere. I refer to what he said— market. The Government believes that that there will be an erosion of the free this foundation should be a strong and port status in Singapore. So far as enduring one. In course of time there Penang is concerned, I leave it to my should arise from it an industrial struc­ Honourable friend the Member for ture which should be the economic Tanjong. fulfilment of the political venture which Since there is going to be this erosion we have called Malaysia. Provided we of the free port status, some people in build wisely and well, there is no this free port area are going to suffer reason why this consummation should for it: and regarding the remedy that not become a reality instead of being the Government is going to devise to only the dream it is today. save the entrepot trade of Singapore— Sir, I beg to move. of course, I appreciate the difference between free port and entrepot trade— The Minister of Commerce and to preserve the entrepot trade, the Industry (Dr Lim Swee Ann): Sir, I Minister of Finance has mentioned beg to second the motion. that there will be a free zone. From 1555 21 AUGUST 1963 1556 what I understand, the places in Singa­ to the public interest or not in the pore that are likely to go under the public interest. It may recommend, but free zone, one of the most precious it cannot make a final decision over this areas maybe Blakang Mati. I am afraid matter. So, the question of whether the that the name "Blakang Mati" means publication of the report is in the "Died Thereafter", if my understanding public interest or not falls into the of the National language is correct. So, hands of the Federal Government. As since our Malayan Minister of Finance I have pointed out, we may be able thinks that the Singapore Minister of to respect the views of the economic Finance is an economist of such con­ experts, but when political decisions siderable standing, then I think, if the are made, we are not quite sure Singapore Government thinks that it whether they will be made in the will be able to give new life to Blakang interest of national economy. Therefore, Mati, the place should be re-named as I hope that the Federal Government "Baharu Beranak oleh Goh Keng will place national interests before Swee" (Laughter), so that there may be political interests, or capitalist interests, a new start. But whatever it may be, or sectional interests, when deciding I am afraid that the Government would this matter. If the Board is of the view have to put in a lot of money to con­ that its report should be published, struct the place—and even then the then I hope the Federal Government traders in Singapore will have to suffer will not lightly consider that it should very much for the inconvenience not be published. because of transport difficulties and so forth. As I said, I am not going to Another matter about this Bill, theorise and speak much on this which I want to point out, is in regard matter. Therefore, I can only hit here to Clause 3 (5)—it reads: and there a little bit. "Subject to the provisions of this section, the terms and conditions of service of whole-time members of the Board and of Sir, there are a few points which I persons appointed to act temporarily in place want to raise at this juncture. The first of a whole-time member shall be such as the one is regarding this Bill. As we see Ministry may determine." in this Bill, Clause 1 (1) reads, "This I want to seek clarification on what is Act may be cited as the Tariff meant by "the terms and conditions of Advisory Board Act, 1963". As I have service", and whether the terms and pointed out, the word "advisory" conditions of service of each member means that the Board will not have the of the Board are to be different, that final decision over the matter of tariff. is whether the terms and conditions According to Annex "J" of the Malay­ of service are to differ from member sian Agreement, that is to say the to member. If so, apart from the ques­ Agreement between the Governments tion of remuneration, what I want to of the Federation of Malaya and Singa­ know is whether the nature of their pore on the common market and the findings, or the power of each of the financial arrangements under Section 2, members to find out certain things, is sub-section (3) of this Agreement, it going to be different according to the is stated: person. And, here, we see that it is the "The Board shall sit in public to receive Minister who is going to determine. I evidence except where the Board deems it think it is correct for me to say that necessary to receive evidence in camera. the Minister normally has the right to Within six months after their receipt the Federal Government shall publish the reports decide on such matters, but neverthe­ and recommendations of the Board other less, I hope that whoever the Minister than those of which publication is not in the shall be, he will decide it according to public interest." strictly impartial standards. I wish to emphasise this part regarding The other matters which are also of "other than those of which publication importance are the size of the free zone is not in the public interest." Well, Sir, in Singapore and the tariffs. So far as I suppose that, since the Board is the tariffs are concerned, there are advisory in character, the Board will different types of tariffs—protective and not be in a position to decide what is revenue tariffs. The differences with 1557 21 AUGUST 1963 1558 which this sort of thing can be applied, waktu menilaikan chukai2 dan barang2 and where the goods are not put in the yang tertentu, maka sudah tentu-lah free zone area, there may be the possi­ keadaan di-tempat itu sadikit sa- bility of temporary importation through banyak-nya akan merusot dari segi ceasure or a refund of these duties ekonomi, dan patut-lah Jawatan-Kuasa under a drawback procedure. All these, itu di-beri kuasa untok menimbangkan I think, can help to ease the difficulties bagaimana hendak mengatasi ekonomi of the free zone, and all these are the di-tempat itu sa-masa dia membuat matters which, I think, need considera­ nilai atas barang2 itu, kerana dalam tion in the future. As I said, I am not Rang Undang2 ini ta' ada di-sebutkan going to speak long, and, therefore, I dan kalau dapat di-ikhtiarkan oleh thank the Chairman. Menteri yang bertanggong jawab, saya rasa itu ada lebeh baik-nya pada Enche' Ismail bin Idris (Penang pandangan saya dari segi Pulau Pinang. Selatan): Tuan Speaker, di-dalam Oleh sebab saya datang dari Pulau uchapan Yang Berhormat Menteri Pinang, maka saya akan tumpukan yang membawa usul bagi Rang uchapan saya ini banyak mengenai Undang2 Tariff Advisory Board ini 2 Pulau Pinang. Di-dalam Bab 6 pecha- antara lain ada perkataan yang walau han (7) mengatakan— pun pada pendapat saya perkara "Where within five years from the coming itu tidak menjadi gadoh kapada saya, into operation of this Act the Board propose tetapi oleh kerana saya sa-bagai salah to recommend the imposition of a protective sa-orang pendudok yang datang dari duty in Singapore on any goods or products, Pulau Pinang tentu ada merasa terkena and the Government of Singapore has 2 notified the Board that it may wish in the sadikit sa-banyak pada orang Pulau interests of the entrepot trade to have the Pinang, tetapi walau macham mana imposition of the duty postponed, the Board pun itu tidak-lah menjadi hal kapada shall consider and, if they see fit, make saya, dan saya hanya hendak menya- recommendations as to the steps that should takan di-sini ia-itu apakala Rang be taken to prevent the importation into 2 2 Singapore of abnormal quantities of the Undang ini telah menjadi undang , goods or products before the duty is maka tamat-lah riwayat Pulau Pinang imposed." itu sa-bagai sa-buah pulau yang men- dapat layanan yang istimewa dalam Di-sini maksud saya ada-lah dalam lengkongan lima tahun apakala kuat- Persekutuan Tanah Melayu ini. Pen­ 2 dudok2 Pulau Pinang bukan sahaja kuasa undang ini di-jalankan, maka yang harus merasa kechiwa dan boleh jadi di-Pulau Pinang juga kesusahan, bahkan juga ada orang2 dari perkara ini akan di-jalankan. Di- utara Malaya yang saya perchaya Singapura, Tuan Speaker, pada pen­ dapat saya tidak menjadi hal kalau tentu akan kurang pergi ka-Pulau 2 Pinang apakala Rang Undang2 ini kuat-kuasa undang ini di-jalankan, berjalan kuat-kuasa-nya nanti. kerana di-Singapura kedudokan-nya ada lebeh baik daripada Pulau Pinang Tuan Speaker, mengikut Rang dari segi perusahaan dan sa-bagai-nya. Undang2 ini, sa-buah badan akan Maksud saya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, di-tubohkan yang bernama Tariff di-Pulau Pinang tidak ada langsong Advisory Board yang mana satu perusahaan yang besar, yang mana daripada tanggong jawab badan ini sa-kira-nya di-dalam masa lima tahun ia-lah untok menilai dan menentukan ini chukai akan di-kenakan mengikut barang2 yang mana patut di-chukai. recommendation ini, maka tentu-lah Saya rasa tentu-lah dalam badan ini banyak daripada pekerjaan2 yang ada ada terdiri daripada pakar2 yang di- dalam soal ini akan terlibat, kerana dalam-nya tentu-lah ada tahu-menahu penganggoran harus berlaku. Jadi apa dalam hal ehwal ekonomi bagi negeri yang saya maksudkan supaya Menteri ini. Jadi, pada fikiran saya, ada yang bertanggong-jawab rengankan baik-nya sa-kira-nya Jawatan-kuasa (relax) daripada masa yang di-tentukan ini, atau pun badan ini dapat di-beri itu. Mudah2an dalam masa di-rengan- juga satu kuasa untok mebuat recom­ kan itu dapat-lah pendudok di-Pulau mendations, atau pun pandangan2 Pinang khas-nya menentukan nasib- kapada Kerajaan supaya apakala nya, sama ada mereka menchari lain 1559 21 AUGUST 1963 1560

pekerjaan untok mata pencharian Tuan Speaker, ada lagi dua perusahaan masing2. yang besar juga di-Pulau Pinang ia-itu perusahaan masak bijeh timah dan Di-dalam uchapan Yang Berhormat membuat minyak kelapa. Kalau sa- Menteri Kewangan tadi telah meng- kira-nya kedua2 perusahaan ini dapat shorkan supaya Pulau Pinang mendiri- di-kechualikan daripada chukai saperti kan beberapa banyak perusahaan. Saya getah itu alang-kah baik-nya kapada uchapkan banyak terima kaseh pendudok dan ekonomi Pulau Pinang sa-kira-nya Kerajaan dapat memberi 2 itu. Saya harap kapada Menteri supaya kemudahan untok mendirikan tempat menimbangkan kapada soal yang saya perusahaan di-Pulau Pinang. Tetapi bangkitkan tadi, dan atas nama ra'ayat satu soal harus berlaku, ia-itu Pulau Pulau Pinang saya suka demi kepen- Pinang sa-bagaimana, Tuan Speaker, tingan nasional menyokong Rang tahu sa-buah pulau yang 8 batu Undang2 ini. lebar-nya dan 15 batu panjang-nya dan pendudok-nya lebeh kurang Enche' Geh Chong Keat (Penang 350,000 tentu-lah tidak ada tempat Utara): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to yang besar untok hendak di-gunakan support the Bill. However, I would bagi perusahaan yang di-sebutkan oleh like to put forth the views of the Menteri tadi. Walau macham mana residents on Penang Island, and in pun kalau Kerajaan boleh memberi particular my constituents in Penang satu jaminan kapada Kerajaan Negeri, Utara, as regards the relevant clauses umpama-nya, menguntokkan wang pertaining to the entrepot trade of membeli tanah yang ada sadikit Penang Island and the free port status sa-banyak di-bukit2 itu supaya tanah or free zone area, especially clause 5, itu dapat di-untokkan tempat peru­ sub-clause (3). sahaan. Itu-lah satu jalan yang saya nampak sa-kira-nya Kerajaan hendak Most of the businessmen in Penang menggalakkan perusahaan di-Pulau are daily discussing the Island's future, Pinang. as to whether the island will be permitted to retain her free port status Satu lagi perkara yang besar yang in the light of the imminent establish­ saya suka hendak menarek perhatian, ment of Malaysia, and the new Tuan Speaker, ia-lah sa-kira-nya Pulau arrangement which has been agreed to Pinang di-masokkan dalam Common for the Island of Singapore as a Market tentu-lah di-adakan perenggan component of this new and wider yang mana barang2 itu di-muat atau partnership of Malaysia. pun di-letakkan, saperti dalam pela- The majority of the 400,000 residents bohan Tanjong hingga hari ini banyak of Penang Island—mostly clerks, tempat yang mana kaki-tangan boleh approximately 20,000 labourers, wage bekerja di-mana juga pantai biasa earners and petty traders, who solely di-letakkan barang2, tetapi apakala 2 depend upon the entrepot trade and kuat-kuasa undang ini di-jalankan tourism for their living—are deeply tentu akan di-adakan satu tempat 2 worried as to whether Penang Island di-mana akan di-letakkan barang itu. would be included in the Principal Jadi tempat ini sa-kira-nya Menteri Customs Area or not with the forma­ yang bertanggong-jawab memberi 2 tion of Malaysia and the Federal peluang lebarkan sadikit tempat itu, Government's intention to form a maka kemudahan untok pekerja2 me- 2 Common Market in Malaysia. The nurunkan barang itu ada lebeh baik general feeling show signs of fear and lagi. uncertainty, and if the Principal Satu perkara saya telah chatit Customs Area is extended to Penang sa-masa Yang Berhormat Menteri Island just with a stroke of the pen— mengemukakan usul ini tadi ia-itu as had happened on 1st September, apabila kuat-kuasa undang2 ini di- 1957, to the State of Malacca and jalankan kemasokan getah di-Pulau Province Wellesley, which is part of Pinang tidak akan di-kenakan chukai. the State of Penang—most of the Ini satu perkara yang menyenangkan people who have business on the Pulau Pinang. Sa-lain daripada itu, island will suffer hardship and even go 1561 21 AUGUST 1963 1562 bankrupt. There was some worry a few healthy growth of these two free port years back when the rubber tax was facilities outside the Customs Area, and imposed on rubber despatched to which offer all the advantages, which Penang, and the people felt at that they enjoy today and indirectly pass on time that it was the thin end of the to neighbouring States in the Customs wedge. However, due to the co-opera­ Area. tion and kind assistance of the Honour­ Without detracting from the overall able Minister of Finance the situation soundness of the Rueff Report, we had been eased. would say that it assumes an identity of Sir, most of the residents are interests between Penang and Singapore interested in the statement made by the which does not exist. Penang is put Minister of Finance on the 11th July together with Singapore by reason of at Kuala Lumpur on his return from similar conditions, under which the the Malaysia Talks in London, and entrepot trade is conducted. But, while they are filled with a ray of hope. The it is intended that this entrepot trade is Minister of Finance had expressed that safeguarded, the contraction of the free whilst the Federation Government has port area, which is the whole island the authority to impose its decision— area, into free zones does not affect both that is the extension of the Principal in the same manner. Singapore's loss in Customs Area to cover the whole of this respect, is more than compensated Penang Island—it had not chosen to do for by a considerably expanded tariff so, but would leave the problem for the free market for her products. Penang people of Penang Island to decide, Island, even the State of Penang, does whether to come into the Principal not have a single industrial base. Customs Area, or to remain status quo. In Penang Island conditions are However, the moments of joy were entirely different. The State of Penang is dashed by the contradictory statement separated by a narrow channel, with of the Chief Minister, Penang—and Province Wellesley embodied with the such contradiction, naturally, caused a mainland, and Penang Island separated certain amount of alarm. from the mainland of Malaya. The Mr Speaker, Sir, we know that State Government of Penang, in her Singapore has asked for the creation of State economic planning, has made a common market after Malaysia, be­ plans to suit its geographical position- cause she realises that with her growing that is, the mainland within the Prin­ population, she cannot wholly depend cipal Customs Area enjoys the indust­ upon her entrepot trade to find employ­ rialisation planning and Penang Island, ment for her people. So, as an alterna­ to devote or concentrate on tourism. tive she started to industrialise—and This planning has virtually given birth on a very large scale too—with the sole to the Mak Manding Industrialisation purpose of creating employment. There­ Scheme—the $40 million project involv­ fore, it is very natural for her to ask ing the construction of a six-berth for a common market, while at the same ocean wharf at Butterworth, and deve­ time retaining her entrepot trade with lopments to provide additional capacity safeguards. Following Singapore's for growth in traffic, projected to arise arrangements, resulting in the conver­ from completion of the highway con­ sion of the island of Blakang Mati and necting Butterworth with Kota Bharu a portion of the Telok Ayer Basin into on the East Coast. free zone areas, for the purpose of If the Principal Customs Area and promoting Singapore's entrepot trade, the common market is to extend to the therefore, relatively it is not too much whole Island of Penang, which has no to work on the same basis that the industrial planning available, it is going whole of Penang Island be considered to be very difficult for her 400,000 as a free zone area in the case of the residents. Therefore, as you can under­ State of Penang. In fact, the Rueff stand, if Penang Island has not been, Report recommended the establishment and is not, geared or prepared for of free port zones as the only practical industrialisation, how can she partici­ solution, for the preservation and pate in the forthcoming common 1563 21 AUGUST 1963 1564 market? Therefore. if the Principal tions . and projtlctions into Penarrg Castoms Area and the comttton market bland"s future prospect by joining the were to extend to Penang Island. there Custortts Area, during his visits to tnust be. an alternative, and provisions Penang Island and the many occasions tnade for the over-growing population in this House, he has taken the oppor­ to find a living; otherwise, this is like tunity to tell us and to advise us. as to. ringing the death knell of Penang Island 'What is good for the residents of Penang and reverting it into a sleeping hollow lsland~fot that we are grateful. How· of fishing villages. ever, I regret his. being not able to understand our feelings and our pro­ Anyway, Sir, we are very grateful to blems, as they are too complex. With the Federal Govertu:nent, as up to this Malaysia it would be just the right time day, it has allowed the l>enang residents to discuss the Malaysian economic as­ to retain whatever little they have-that pect in regard to Penang Island with is the continuance of the free port the Chamber of Commerce and others­ status of over twenty yeats and with­ and, perhaps, with his persuasive power standing the last threat some five years Ii::"" to explain the position and to dispel back. I am sure that the Federal the fear and distrust, resulting in Penang Government and the Honourable Island joining the Principal Customs Minister of Finance will give considera­ Area with reasonable concessions. tion to our appeal and forgive us for clinging tenaciously. through the years It is apparent that the 400.000 to the conviction that-taking all the residertts of Penang Island, may accept advantages and disadvantages into the wisdom and sound advice of the consideration-there should be no Honourable Minister of Finance, on the change to these old conditions and thus trend of national economy with happy boost up our resources, to make Peilang, Mataysia and on the apparent provision the San Francisco of Malaysia: and to industrialise Penang Island, with that would be possible with the opening developments to the existing port facili· up of the Isthmus of Kra canal. As ties and the preparation of the rural we have heard and read, an interna­ areas for industrialisation. In order to tional team has been sent there, to achieve the maximwn effect, the Federal carry out a survey of the site for the Government must give support to co­ cutting of the canal. There might be ordinate and improve, the present some differences of opinion on the economic planning of Penang Island. question that due to current action in Therefore, I appeal to the Federal the Indian Ocean and the South China Government not to extend the Principal Sea, the opening of the Isthmus of Kra Customs Area forcibly to the Island of is not possible. However, canals are Penang, but to wait until, she is in a man-made and with the advancement position to industrialise and the people in engineering, it is quite possible, there feel-in these days of progress­ though Singapore might say, that there confident that Penang Island will take is no threat in the opening of the her place, in the coming industrialisa­ Isthmus of Kra canal. tion centre and is ready to participate in the common market. When she is Sir, we in Penang feel that with Malay­ ready, the creation of the common sia, with the common market, and with market in Penang Island must be done the support of the Federation Govern­ gradually and she must be given terms ment on industrialisation planning on no worse than those given to Singapore. the Island of Penang, there is still hope that Penang will take her proper place. I must speciaily make myself clear. as she has in former years. We are the that I am not making a demand-and gateway to Malaysia-and in that neither are the residents of Penang Penang shall become the San Francisco Island making a demand on the ·of Malaysia. The residents of Penang Government-or attacking the decision Island are grateful to the Minister of of the Honourable Minister of Finance. Finance for his great concern over our I am only appealing on behalf of the trade, our economic progress, and the people of Penang Island. The industria~ free port status. Besides his explana· lisation of Penang Island must cover 1565 21 AUGUST 1963 1566 a period of fiftetn to nventy . years. decide for ~ people of Penang. as Penang Island bas to ~tatt from. The Hottourable Metnber seems to be scratch and she has to tackle various very conctrfled about this. and in this essential industrialisation problems. respect, I think, he agrees with us in From experience of the Mak M4l!ildin the Opposition that the view-point of Scheme which has been lalinched, it has the people can only be determined by taken bet nearly three years to prepare the people themselves and not by the the site and will take some more time people who claim to represent them­ to get ready to ptoduce. So, even though and here I am in common gtounds Penang Island has started industrialisa­ with the Honourable Member for tion, it will take her three years approx­ Penang Utara. I agree with him that imately for the preparation of the site, an important measure like this should another three years to build the only be introduced when the people of factories, and finally it will be some­ that territory agrees to it. where around seven or ten years before she can really start to produce and I must point out to the Honourable contribute towards the common market. Minister of Finance that in 1957 on '\1 If the Principal Customs Area and the the proclamation of l\.terdeka, Province common market are extended to Penang Wellesley was brought into the customs Island under these terms, then the area, but Penang was excluded. There 400,000 residents would not have to must be some very special considera­ worry, but to hope that the choice they tions that led the Government to do tnake is with far-reaching projection on that and I submit here, Sir. that the providing employment fot the ever­ conditions prevailing at that time were growing population and economic no different from the conditions advancement of Penang Island as a prevailing in Penang at this particular whole. instanre-circumstances have not chang­ Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr Speaker, ed in the few years after Merdeka, to Sir, if you want aa example of hypo­ quote the words of the Honourable crisy (Laughter) then we have it in the Member for Pettang Utara. Absolutely speech of the Honourable Member nothing is being done to industrialise for Penang Utara. I fail to understand Penang Island, and even the scheme him, and I fail to see what he was that has been started now in Province driving at. I wonder whether he was Wellesley finds very little response speaking for the people of Penang, or from industrialists. So, the problem of for the people of his own constituency. Penang Island is indeed a very real I thought that a person like him one-it is a real one. If the Honourable should have the courage of his con­ the Minister of Finance will take the viction, and he should come to this trouble to analyse the position in House and tell the Minister in no Penang to find out how many people uncertain terms how his constituency in Penang rely on trade-which is only feels about it, and not to do it in such possible if Penang is in the free market a haphazard manner as to give the area, ot has free port status-then he impression of hypocrisy. will not jump, as he did just now, into !he ~nclusion by saying_ that Penang The Honourable Member for Penang 1s gomg to benefit tremendously as a Utara mentioned that the people of result of joining the common market. Penang were very grateful to the He said "a little sacrifice on the part Honourable Minister of Finance, when of the citizens of Penang for a much the Minister made a speech to the effect greater gain". and by that he means that Penang would not be included in greater industrialisation which will the crimmon market unless the people provide more jobs and mote wealth for of Penang agreed to it. Then, he went Penang. The Honourable Minister of on to say that this view-point was more Finance must appreciate that the State or less contradicted by a statement of Penang comprises Penang Island and from the Honourable the Chief Province Wellesley. So, any desire to Minister of Penang, who felt that the assist Penang on the part of the State Government of Penang could Honourable Minister of Finance can 1567 21 AUGUST 1963 1568 eas.ily be done by encouraging indus­ is this : we must not think. basing on trialisation in Province Wellesley. the argument of the Minister, that if Revenue derived from that will go to the whole of Malaysia were to come the State Government of Penang. under a customs union, then the benefits of the free port status will not be lost. As far as the Island of Penang is He even went to the extent of concerned, the Honourable Minister arguing that from the point of view of must realise that as regards the smuggling and things like that, it will population in the Island, particularly not take place if Penang were to remain in the town area, the majority of them in the customs area. We must realise are shopkeepers, and that the shops that there is always an alternative; are able to carry on is because the neighbouring countries, if they find people from the Federation and the that it is of benefit to them, can people from various places go to establish a free port nearby. For Penang for no other reason than to example, a free port can be established shop, as they can buy things very in the Isthmus of Kra, as suggested by cheaply from the shops in Penang­ the Honourable Member for Penang • and this type of business has given Utara, or perhaps in neighbouring employment to the bulk of the popula­ Sumatra. From that aspect, whatever tion in George Town. If you take away trade that is going on in Penang the free port status, then I am afraid Island can be taken over by a foreign that the majority of these shops will country and this will destroy the have to close down, because they will argument of the Honourable Minister not be able to sustain their business, concerned. We feel, Sir-and, in fact, if they are going to rely entirely on it is the feeling of the people of purchases from people in Penang Penang-that the most logical solution Island. to the problem will be for the whole of The Honourable Minister of Finance Penang Island to retain its free port pointed out just now that from the status. By so doing, Penang need not point of view of revenue the Federation fear that it will not derive advantages was losing as much as $7 .28 million from a free market, because Penang a year with regard to such goods. I can always industrialise, and industrial­ must point out that goods of this ise in Province Wellesley. So, Penang nature consumed in Penang are not will be able to derive the benefits. consumed solely by the people of Penang. People in other parts of the Federation do go to Penang and The Honourable Minister suggested purchase duty-free goods from Penang that if Penang were to come into the island and this benefit or concession common market, Penang will enjoy is not gained by the population of the best of the two worlds. But I am Penang itself. We must realise that this suggesting to him that if Penang is is one of the most important economic going to enjoy the best of the two activities of the people in George Town worlds, Penang Island must remain as itself, and l would ask the Minister a free port and it is only by so doing concerned, what is going to happen to that Penang can enjoy the best of the the livelihood not only of the two worlds. So, if we do that, then employees but of the entrepreneurs Penang Island will be able to continue who carry on all this business in to enjoy its present status and I believe Penang Island? All this will have a that, in the light of the common growing effect, because from the market, the position of Penang will moment people are unemployed they perhaps improve tremendously because will have less and less purchasing power another aspect of trade in Penang, and the overall tendency will be for the which the Honourable Minister did country as a whole to suffer. We not point out to members of this cannot look at it purely from the point House, is that there are quite a few of view of Penang as such. trading concerns marketing goods with a view to selling them to the mainland. Another aspect of the problem For example, spare parts and things which we must consider very seriously like that. It is obvious from the point 1569 21 AUGUST 1963 1570 of view of business that it is no use words "to come crawling". I will not for a merchant in the customs area to be surprised that he will say that I am store up a lot of goods, because, apart begging. Knowing the Members of the from the capital paid for the goods Opposition as I do, it is very difficult concerned, they have to pay an for the Member for Tanjong to join additional tax, perhaps 20 per cent., our cause. I think that the Member for perhaps 30 per cent. So the cost of Tanjong is taking the opportunity to storing such goods is very much more sow seeds of dissension between the than, say, in the case of a firm in the Honourable Minister of Finance and free port area. So firms in a free port myself. (Laughter). As we know, the area can afford to import more goods Opposition always starts by agreeing to in readiness to supply to places in the disagree, no matter what the Govern­ customs area whenever they need it. ment backbenchers say. I am sure that So, if Penang were to be brought into the Member for Tanjong in putting up the customs area, this particular type his case is trying to ridicule me and to of business will also have to close play a bit of politics. With this clari­ down, because no longer will they be fication, Mr Speaker, Sir, I hope the able to carry on as it will be of no Honourable Member for Tanjong will benefit to them at all in spite of play his part as the people of Penang whatever skill they may have acquired Island expect him to do as the represen­ in the course of a few generations in tative for Tanjong—and I am playing trading in this particular line of my part. business. So, you see, Sir, it is clear that Penang Island—as distinct from Mr Speaker: The clarification is very the State of Penang—is bound to suffer long. You can only make a brief should its free port status be taken explanation—not a long one; other­ away. wise, it will become a second speech. (Laughter). What concerns us most is this: that Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Thank you, the Federation has committed itself Sir. I am speaking as an elected into a common market without first representative of Penang Utara, and if of all consulting the people of Penang. I may go further I am also the Chair­ I think this is a breach of faith, man of the Penang Island Rural because even when Penang joined the District Council, except for the three- Federation of Malaya on the proclama­ mile radius city of George Town, which tion of Merdeka, the Government at is only an appendix of the Island of that time saw fit to retain Penang's Penang. If he wants to talk politics, free port status. So you see, Sir, I am also the Honorary Secretary of this opposition from the people of the Penang M.C.A. Penang is by no means an opposition from sectional interests, or an opposi­ Mr Speaker: (To Enche' Tan Phock tion from Opposition political parties. Kin) Proceed. It is a spontaneous and overall opposi­ Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Mr Speaker, tion from the people of Penang as such, Sir, it is very interesting to hear the because they know that if the free port Honourable Member for Penang Utara, status is taken away from them, they because by his speech he has exposed will suffer from dire economic reper­ more and more his hypocrisy. He has cussions. Unlike the Honourable Mem­ mentioned that I am trying to drive a ber for Penang Utara, who has seen wedge between him and the Minister fit to come crawling to the Honourable of Finance, but from his performance Minister of Finance and say, "Please, today, I think the Minister of Finance I appeal to you, consider this.", I will will definitely congratulate him, have this to say to the Minister of because in his effort to put Finance. forward .... Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Mr Speaker, Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification, I think, Sir, on a point of clarification—is that it is very unbecoming for the Honour­ double-talk he is talking now? able Member for Tanjong to use the (Laughter). 1571 21 AUGUST 1963 1572 Enche' Tan Phock Kin: Well, Sir, viewpoints of the people of Penang and if the Honourable Member will listen to distort their feeling. Mr Speaker, Sir, to what I have to say .... this is a matter of life and death to a Mr Speaker: Order, order. Do not lot of people resident in Penang Island; be sarcastic in your remarks. and if their livelihood is being threa­ (Laughter). tened, it is natural, whether the Honourable Member for Penang Utara Enche' Tan Phock Kin: As I was chooses to say it is decent or otherwise, saying, Sir, the Honourable Minister they will not do anything to demand will compliment him for putting a good that the Government shall not intro­ case badly, because the case for the duce measures that will destroy their people of Penang is indeed a very livelihood without first consulting them. serious one, and the feeling of the I think it is a very important matter people of Penang is such that we that no democratic Government will cannot ignore it. In a democracy, we act without first getting the consent of must always take into consideration the the people. I feel, Sir, in the light of my feeling of the people, and I can say that explanation, that the matter can be in Penang Island the feeling is so borne out by an investigation on the strong that the people will not come to part of the Government—that is whe­ the Honourable the Minister of Finance ther the state of affairs as stated is true and appeal to him as the Honourable or otherwise, whether the people of Member for Penang Utara has sugges­ Penang are up in arms against this new ted. The feeling is so strong that the measure. If the speech of the Honour­ people will demand .... able Minister of Finance were to be Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Mr Speaker, published, his utterances in this House Sir, on a point of order—the Honour­ today were to be published, I feel sure able Member for Tanjong is imputing that the people of Penang will be even that the people of Penang Island have more hostile. no decency. The Honourable Member for Penang Mr Speaker: No, no. He is quite in Utara has mentioned the fact that the order. Proceed. persuasiveness of the Honourable Minister of Finance may do the trick Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I am afraid of getting the people of Penang to agree. that the Member for Penang Utara . . . However, I am afraid that his persua­ Mr Speaker: No comment on my siveness today does not by any means order. Proceed with your comments on succeed in persuading the Member of the provisions of the Bill. Penang Utara. Then, how can he hope to persuade the people of Penang Enche' Tan Phock Kin: The same Island? The Member for Penang Utara statement was made by the Honourable is of the same Party and for political Member, and I cannot just continue reasons will have to stand in support of my speech without replying to some of his colleague, but in spite the Honour­ the remarks made by him. The Honour­ able Member .... able Member for Penang Utara is trying to create a false impression— Enche' Geh Chong Keat: Mr Speaker, firstly, of the seriousness of the matter, Sir, on a point of clarification. and, secondly, of the feeling of the Mr Speaker: (To Enche' Tan Phock people of Penang. I think this will have Kin) Do you want to give way? a very important bearing on the decision of the Government as to what course Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I think he is of action it will take with regard to becoming a nuisance. (Laughter). this particular matter. I feel that I will Mr Speaker: I am not asking for be failing in my duty, if I do not put your comment whether he is a nuisance forward clearly and specifically the or not, but whether you want to give sentiments and the feeling of the way or not. people of Penang Island, particuarly because the Honourable Member for Enche' Tan Phock Kin: No, Sir. Penang Utara has chosen to distort the Mr Speaker: Please proceed. 1573 21 ~U69§1_' 1.~~ 1574 ~' Tu PllodE Khi; The llQnQlU'· as to mab the ~tional il\CO.nle mote able Minister of Finance has in his equitably distribu•e.d~ ~~t to make it speech today brought up the matter of more incquita.Wy distri;b~. I would Penang at great length. He has tried like to point o.ut to hi.m die question of to tell this Home in no uncertain terms income tax in reaard to exetnk'tion for of the advantages that the people of owners of houses. Now that Smgapore Penang will derive as a resl)lt of joirlmg has come into Mal~sia, and with the the common market. He has even gone Singapore income tax structure being to the extent of criticising and con· quite different-it bas an upper limit denming people, who do not agree with for bouse ownei;s~what does the his views. The Honourable Member for Honourable Minister propo$e to do Penang Utara describes that speech as abOl~t it? Does be propose to bring a persuasive speech-and he considers Singapore into line and thel'.eby make the Honourable Minister of Finance to the distribution of income even more be a person of great persuasiveness. inequitable, or is he going to admit Nevertheless, in spite of all his persua· ~hat he ha~ made an error and will siveness, Sir, the Minister cannot even follow the example of Singapore? persuade his own member. So, how can These are matters of very great impor• he persuade the people of Penang? tance. We on this side of the House cannot agree w\th the Government that Sir, coming to the other aspect$ of it is its desire to really improve the this common market, one of the r~asons st!lndard of living of the people. orou_ght up by the Honourable Minis· Measure~ introduced by the. Govern­ ·ter of Finance is that in view of our ment are measures introduced to bene­ desire to diversify, in view of our desire fit section~l interests. We ~ow that the to improve the standard of living of the Alliance ~s a Government represents people in this country, we m~t have a certairi sectional interests, and that all common market-a common market is along in every policy enunciated by the a "must" in our econ~ic 11tructure. I field~in agr~ Government in every trans­ say here, Sir, that I, do with him port, in every field of commerce an4 t-0 some exteQt. But with· regafPerai. Seberang Perai taken a great <:teal of trou~ to mislead ada-lah sa-buah kawasan dalam Negeri the people all the time. Whenever it Pulau Pinang. Jadi, kami ini kalau ada· tries to introduce any new measure, it lah chara hendak menjadikan Pulau will always say that this new measure Pinang itu sa-bagai satu kawasan kas­ is going to improve the living standard tam. maka qengan iui akan melldatang· of the people in this country. But to kan be~rapa banyak k~t.nudahan ee. as far as thia Government pang2 firi itu manakala hendak menye­ is concerned, that ti.we ~ a.gain it beraltg, me~ka itq selalu ~an di· has introduced nlea$l,lr@$ not so mucll p,erek~ oleh ~awai2 ka$tam, mereka 1575 21 AUGUST 1963 1576 juga kena menyerahkan barang2 all laws relating to public health, inspection 2 of vessels, postal services, labour conditions, mereka serta menunjokkan barang itu immigration and, in short, everything except kapada pegawai2 kastam, dan bagitu Customs." juga bungkusan2-nya di-buka, dan ini menyebabkan sa-tengah daripada-nya Jadi mengikut istilah free port ini ber­ bertengkar dengan pegawai2 kastam di­ kenaan dengan Pulau Pinang hendak situ. Apabila di-tanya, ini beli berapa? di-jadikan pelabohan bebas daripada Kata-nya $10. Saya ta' perchaya, kata kawasan kastam ada-lah berlawanan pegawai kastam itu, ini harga-nya $20. dengan tafsiran sa-bagaimana yang di­ Dengan sebab yang demikian selalu-lah sebut dalam "MacCall Dictionary''. ada pertengkaran dan pergadohan. Jadi saya berharap supaya pehak sa­ Jadi, kalau Pulau Pinang itu di-jadi­ belah sana bertimbang rasa dan terima kan kawasan kastam, kechuali sa­ lab ranchangan hendak di-jadikan bahagian kechil sahaja, tentu-lah akan Common Market itu. Satu perkara lagi, mendatangkan kesenangan kapada se­ Tuan Yang di-Pertua, laporan 51/56 ini mua orang2 yang datang dari seluroh telah di-kaji dengan halus, mengikut Tanah Melayu ini. Dari segi kepenti­ majority recommendation 5 orang ber­ ngan kebangsaan, saya menyokong setuju di-jadikan Pulau Pinang itu penoh di-atas Rang Undang2 ini yang kawasan kastam, 4 orang tidak ber­ menjadikan Pulau Pinang ini masokkan setuju. Jadi mengikut peratoran biasa semenjak tahun 1956 dahulu patut di­ dalam Common Market, kerana pen­ 2 dudok2 di-negeri Pulau Pinang itu laksanakan. Oleh sebab ada perkara sendiri, mengikut ke'adilan tentu ang­ yang tertentu telah di-tanggohkan sa­ gap 'adil, sebab di-dalam Pulau Pinang hingga timbul sa-mula hal itu pada orang2 terlepas daripada kena chukai, masa sekarang ini. tetapi di-Seberang Perai dalam negeri 2 Mengenai churiga yang di-sebutkan Pulau Pinang, orang di-situ di-kena­ oleh Yang Berhormat dari Tanjong kan chukai. Dan juga kalau-lah hendak yang mengatakan orang di-Pulau di-beri peluang terus-menerus kapada Pinang ia-itu orang2 berniaga harus orang2 Pulau Pinang, maka kami di­ menutup kedai dan perusahaan-nya. Seberang Perai pun manakala di­ Ini ada-lah tudohan yang sangat2 tidak adakan pelabohan dalam nanti, harus patut, kerana di-Pulau Singapura pen­ akan bertindak mendesak Kerajaan dudok yang sa-ramai 1,600,000 orang, supaya menjadikan Seberang Perai itu Kerajaan Singapura berani mengistihar­ bebas daripada kastam. kan atau menerima dasar Common Jadi, saya berharap kapada pehak2 Market. Oleh sebab yang demikian saya yang berada di-Pulau Pinang itu supaya tidak nampak dasar ini patut di-tolak, bertimbang rasa sadikit kapada orang2 kerana di-Singapura maseh banyak yang tinggal di-Seberang Perai sana. peniaga kechil mereka tidak gentar Mengikut tafsiran, atau pun ma'ana dan takut. Maka di-atas dasar kepen­ free port status pada pandangan Ahli tingan nasional mereka sanggup me­ Yang Berhormat dari Tanjong itu ada­ nerima dan masok dalam Common lah mengelirukan sadikit. Mengikut Market. tafsiran yang sa-benar free port, Tuan Enche' Ahmad bin Arshacl (Moar Yang di-Pertua, saperti mana yang Utara): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya terkandong dalam Report of Penang berchakap ini tidak bawa cherita Pulau Customs Duties Working Party, No. 51 Pinang. Saya chuma mengalu2kan dan tahun 1956 ada mengatakan: menyokong Rang Undang2 Lembaga "Free Port or Zone-An isolated, enclosed Penasihat Chukai. Sa-telah mengikuti and policed area in or adjacent to a port of atas uchapan yang di-beri oleh Yang entry without resident population other than Berhormat Menteri Kewangan pada the staff necessary for discharging and loading ships, supplying fuel and ships' pagi tadi, saya nampak bahawa Bill ini stores, and storing goods and re-shipping mustahak di-luluskan. Saya chuma them by land or water ; it is an area within hendak menyentoh, Tuan Yang di­ which goods may be landed, stored, mixed, blended, repacked, manufactured, and re­ Pertua, dalam uchapan Yang Berhor­ shipped without Customs intervention, but mat Menteri Kewangan ia-itu ber­ it is subject equally with adjacent regions to hubong dengan penyeludupan barang2

~--- 1577 21 AUGUST 1963 1578 yang di-larikan daripada chukai. Masa Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, yang akhir2 ini kita dapat mengikuti Sir, I am very grateful on behalf of bahawa beberapa kesusahan dan ke- the Government for the expressions of takutan yang di-hadapi oleh Pegawai support for this Bill which have come Kastam waktu menjalankan tugas-nya. from two Honourable Members. I Maka dengan sebab itu saya ingin me- refer, of course, to the speeches made ngutarakan satu shor supaya di-tim- by my Honourable friends the Member bangkan dan di-terima oleh Lembaga for Seberang Utara and the Member Penasihat Chukai itu yang pada himah for Muar Utara, and in referring to the saya ada hubongan-nya atas Bill ini, speech of the Honourable Member for ia-itu di-bolehkan Pegawai Kastam Muar Utara I might probably deal menggunakan senjata api (pistol) wak­ with the point which has been raised tu menjalankan tugas pada tempat yang by him, namely, the desirability of tertentu dan keadaan yang tertentu. arming customs officers in order that they may be better able to carry out Kita juga mengetahui' bahawa Jabatan their duties. The Government is fully Kastam Persekutuan Tanah Melayu conscious of the hazards which face telah menjalankan satu gerakan revenue officers in the performance of untok menghapuskan penyeludupan their duties and this matter has in fact itu. Pasokan penyeludup itu bukan been given very serious consideration sahaja menggunakan motobot yang by the head of the Customs Depart­ laju, tetapi kadang2 mereka ada meng­ ment, and I can assure the Honourable gunakan senjata api. Jadi atas bab ini Member that everything will be done saya memberi-lah alasan2-nya ia-itu to ensure that these officers will be dengan ada-nya pegawai itu membawa able to carry out their duties and will senjata api sa-kurang2nya kita dapat be able to do so with the minimum of menjaga keselamatan pegawai kita dan risk to life and limb. I think I need not dapat menyelamatkan barang2 yang go further, but I can assure the di-larikan oleh pasokan penyeludup itu. Honourable Member that the Govern­ ment is aware that it is very essential Menurut apa yang saya tahu sa- from every point of view that these orang Pegawai Kastam telah meninggal officers should feel secure in the per­ dunia dengan sebab menjalankan tugas- formance of their duties. nya di-laut Pahang. Barangkali orang yang menyeludup itu ada membawa I can appreciate, Sir, the misgivings senjata api. Pada faham saya kalau of the Honourable Members, who have pegawai itu membawa senjata api, spoken on this measure and who come mungkin nyawa-nya selamat daripada from Penang. I think that is understand­ di-bunoh oleh orang yang tidak ber- able. But I also submit that if we tanggong-jawab itu. look at the facts coldly and dispas­ sionately, then the reason for alarm Sa-lain daripada itu, Pegawai Kas­ is much less obvious. The Honourable tam pernah menemui orang yang ma- Member for Tanjong in particular sok ka-Tanah Melayu dengan chara suggests that there is no reason to make haram dan kadang2 mereka itu mem­ a change now when Penang has enjoyed bawa senjata. Jadi saya memahamkan its free port status for so long, and he sa-kira-nya pegawai kita di-bekalkan bases this contention on his reasoning senjata yang sa-umpama itu akan men- that circumstances have not changed. datangkan keuntongan dari segi ke- I beg to differ from him and I do not wangan negeri kita. Pada menghapus­ intend to quote reams of figures,becaus e kan kejadian yang haram yang merugi- I think this is a problem which is very kan berjuta ringgit kalau dalam ke­ well known in this House, but I would adaan takut dengan sebab mereka tidak quote one very material set of figures bersenjata api tentu tidak boleh di- which will show, as Rueff has so selamatkan. Saya uchapkan terima rightly pointed out, that the entrepot kaseh kapada orang ramai yang telah trade of Penang is not only stagnant memberi kerja-sama kapada Jabatan it faces a real risk of decline. For Kastam dalam soal ini. example, exports for the first quarter— 1579 21 AUGUST 1963 1580 and this refers to the entrepot trade— face in the event of its being included of 1962 amounted to $15.6 million. in the Malaysian common market are Exports for the first quarter of 1963 far less than the difficulties which amounted to only $6.4 million. That would be faced by Singapore. As I have means a drop of 250 per cent. Figures tried to point out in my speech, the like these indicate all too clearly and entrepot trade of Penang is only a frac­ all too ominously that the economic tion of the entrepot trade of Singapore. future of Penang is indeed bleak unless In the case of Singapore, you literally she joins the Malaysian common get thousands upon thousands of market. This is not only my opinion, traders, not only wholesalers and large Sir, it is the considered opinion of a importers, but also small businessmen, team of economic experts of interna­ who would be ruined unless care was tional fame, who have arrived at this taken to ensure that in the transition conclusion after a very thorough study from free port to common market, of conditions in Penang. They have adequate arrangements were made arrived at this conclusion after per­ for them to shift or to change sonally visiting Penang and studying to other means of livelihood. However, conditions there on the spot. It is, in the case of Penang, it is very much therefore, difficult to understand how less because, as I have said, the figures the Federal Government can be charged of the entrepot trade of Penang have with coming to this conclusion without shown a decline, but even in its heyday very careful thought and without taking Penang's entrepot trade cannot by any into consideration the particular needs stretch of the imagination be compared of Penang Island itself. Perhaps, it in magnitude to that of Singapore. would be useful to the House if I were We should also remember that we will to give a broad picture of how we not impose this common market on intend to bring this common market Penang straightaway. What would into operation. obviously happen would be that the Tariff Board would recommend that Sir, if Honourable Members had certain products should be brought into taken the trouble to study this Bill, the first list which we hope to publish and I am sure many have, they will in about twelve months from today. find therein that, even in the case of That first list will contain a number Singapore, we have provided five to of products which we think can be twelve years for transitional arrange­ produced here, or are already produced ments in that territory, so that it would here, and Penang would be asked to be able to adjust itself to the new agree that this list should be regarded position; in the case of Penang, it would as a common market product list, and clearly be necessary to make similar when we have got the first list, we will arrangements in order to enable the go on the second list. It is clear that this traders, who depend on the entrepot list cannot be rushed, because before trade, to adjust themselves to the new you can even produce a list you have conditions, and that is why we have got to take various factors into consi­ agreed to a minimum period of five deration. You will have to find out years in the case of Singapore. I would whether it would be possible in fact emphasise the word "minimum", for this list to be included in the because it is felt that it may not be common market list, and before the possible to make the necessary adjust­ Board makes a recommendation, I ments within the period of five years, have no doubt, bearing in mind the and if we are prepared to make this composition of the Board, they will concession to Singapore, I have no take all relevant factors into consi­ doubt that a similar concession could deration. It is, therefore, quite clear be given to Penang, so that the risk that this common market will be of unemployment, the risk of economic brought into force gradually, and this dislocation, would be reduced to the will also have an added advantage in very minimum. I think, Sir, every fair- that it will cause the minimum of minded person would agree that the economic dislocation to the people most difficulties which Penang is likely to vitally concerned. 1581 21 AUGUST 1963 1582 The Honourable Member for Rawang there, and that even if land were avail­ has asked why is it that the Tariff able the State Government might not Advisory Board is only advisory. As be able to provide the cash for indus­ I tried to point out in my speech, trialisation. I am slightly more tariffs are very much a matter for the optimistic than the Honourable Mem­ Government, and it is clearly undesir­ ber, because I feel that there is land able that the Board should be allowed for industrialisation in Penang, if we powers of fixing tariffs, which in look hard for it. Of course, there are effect means the power to tax—and I rubber estates which are really firewood think even the Honourable Member estates, and I have no doubt that for Rawang will agree that that is a there are other pieces of land avail­ power which can hardly be surrendered able which can be turned into indus­ by any self-respecting Government. He trial estates. As for the financial re­ made the point that it could be sources which would be required to dangerous for the Government to have develop an industrial site, my Honour­ the final decision on the recommenda­ able colleague, the Minister of Com­ tions of the Board, because of the merce and Industry, would I am sure possibility that the Government in be too happy to consider applications coming to a decision might place undue from Penang for funds to develop emphasis on the political factor. I think industrial estates there. He has got his anxiety is probably understand­ enough funds for the purpose, and if able—I do not blame him—if he they are not enough I am sure the judges us by the standards to which the Cabinet will be glad to approve a Socialist Front is addicted. But I little bit more for the sake of Penang. suggest that if he were to look at it from our point of view, it would be The Honourable Member for Penang quite safe, whether the Minister of Utara suggested that Penang would Finance is myself or anybody else in go bankrupt, if it were brought into my Party. the Principal Customs Area. In view of what I have said, I think the oppo­ The Honourable Member for Penang site will be the case. The possibility Selatan made a very constructive of bankruptcy would be increased if speech. He asks that the Tariff Advisory Penang were not brought into the Board should make recommendations common market arrangements eventu­ in order to ensure that the entrepot ally, and I think the reverse would be trade of Penang is safeguarded. If the case if it were brought into the Honourable Members will look at sub­ common market, because it will be clause (3) of clause 5, page 3 of the industrialised successfully. Bill, paragraph (b), they will observe the following words: The Honourable Member for Tan- jong has argued that there is no "(3) The Board shall in considering any matter take into account and report to the reason to think that Penang could be Federal Government on the effect of their industrialised successfully, because it recommendations on the following: has been unable to do so in the past. (b) the interests of the entrepot trade of The reason is obvious. It is hardly Singapore, Penang and Labuan;" feasible for a manufacturer to start It should, therefore, be clear to every­ to operate on Penang Island, because body that the Board in coming to its he has got to face the full blast of recommendations must take into imports from every country on this account the interests of the entrepot planet, and without the benefit of tariff trade at Penang, and that means what protection I cannot believe any manu­ it says. It must make its recommen­ facturer, in his right senses would ever dation in such a way that those dream of proceeding on those lines. interests will not suffer at all. There is also the other side of the The Honourable Member for Penang picture which, unfortunately has not Selatan also made the point that it been brought up in this debate. Both was difficult to industrialise Penang, my colleague the Honourable Minis­ because there is not sufficient land ter of Commerce and Industry and I 1583 21 AUGUST 1963 1584 receive from time to time—in fact, it the plea that the Federal Government is rather with regular monotony— might help Penang in economic plan­ applications or petitions or appeals ning, and I have no doubt that that from manufacturers on Penang Island, is one request we can accede to very namely those mee hoon manufac­ readily. turers, candle and joss-stick manufac­ The Honourable Member for Tan- turers, biscuit manufacturers, gold jong, of course, gets on his favourite and silver smiths, canneries—asking theme. He at last reluctantly admitted for free entry into the Principal that there was some sense in having Customs Area. We in the Federal a common market, although he Government, naturally, have to tell argued that any prosperity resulting them that they cannot have the best therefrom would go to those who of both worlds, that is, they cannot really should not have been benefited, have their cake and eat it. If the that is, the rich would be made richer. manufacturers on Penang Island want There are two points of view on this to obtain duty-free entry into the score, and I think the Honourable Principal Customs Area, they have to Member will realise that we agree to join the Principal Customs Area. disagree on this point. That is all, and There is also the other point which I wish again to thank this House for we should bear in mind and that is the support it has given to this very there can not only be a common important measure. (Applause). market in manufactured goods. There Question put, and agreed to. can be a common market in agricul­ tural products; and if Penang were Bill accordingly read a second time to join the Malaysian common mar­ and committed to a Committee of the ket, the poultry farmers, the pig whole House. rearers and those who work on the House immediately resolved itself land, would benefit because they into a Committee on the Bill. would then be able to have the benefit Bill considered in Committee. of a much larger market. We must remember that the market of Penang (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Island itself is such a minute market that, as I have said, no manufacturers Clauses 1 to 10 inclusive ordered to would ever dream of operating there stand part of the Bill. without any tariff protection whatso­ ever, and that is clearly the reason Clauses 11 to 17— why it has not been possible in the Enche* Tan Phock Kin: Mr Chair­ past to industrialise Penang or dream man, Sir, I rise to seek clarification of industrialising Penang. with regard to clause 11 pertaining to The Honourable Member for the report of the Board on reviews, Penang Utara has also suggested that etc. Under clause 11 (2), it is stated the whole of Penang Island should here: "(2) The Minister shall, not later than six be made a free zone. I cannot believe months after receiving a report under this that he expects me to take his sugges­ section, publish the report together with the tion seriously, because that would decision of the Federal Government with obviously be tantamount to saying respect to the recommendations contained that the status quo should remain. As therein, . . . ." I have stated already, I do not think According to the Rueff Report, it was the conditions in Penang are different recommended that the period for the in kind from that of Singapore, publication of the report of the Board although there is a difference in should not be later than three months, degree, but if any comparison is to be but in the Bill it is stated "not later made, it is pretty obvious that it is than six months". May I have an far easier for Penang to join the explanation why there is this departure common market without economic from the recommendation? The second dislocation than it would be in the point on which I would like the Minis­ case of Singapore. He has also made ter to give some clarification is with 1585 21 AUGUST 1963 1586 regard to recommendations with which Enche' Tan Phock Kin: On this the Government may not agree. The question of extending the period of provisions in the Bill is that it would three months to six months, I thought be published, but there was a sugges­ that to any reasonable person—and tion in the report that certain recom­ apparently even the Commission mendations should be put before thought so—three months would be a Parliament. I would like to know reasonable time. It is stated here whether the Minister is in agreement "three months after receiving the with that recommendation; and if so, Report". So, after receiving the why no provision has been made in report, the Government will have the Bill for that purpose? three months to consider it, and I see Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Chairman, no reason why the three months Sir, it is of course true that we have should be extended to six months, not accepted all the recommendations because any Government, with any of the Rueff Report. It is also true degree of efficiency, surely can come that we have accepted many of their to a decision on an important matter recommendations. The reason, Sir, within three months. This is an why we have not accepted this parti­ important matter. A recommendation cular recommendation and increased has been made, and there is no reason the period from three to six months for this dilly-dallying. I see no reason is because we felt that there might be why another three months should be occasions when it would not be possi­ added, because the Mission making ble for a variety of reasons for the the enquiry is not a Mission of ordi­ Government to come to a decision nary people, but a Mission of experts— within a period of three months. as the Honourable Minister stated just now, it is a Mission of experts: Honourable Members must also and experts when they write down remember that these tariff changes three months, they must have consi­ could have very far-reaching conse­ dered whether it should be four, or quences. They would affect not only it should be three, or it should be two, the particular industry directly con­ or should be six. I feel that the Mis­ cerned, they could also affect sion must have considered very indirectly many other industries and exhaustively this period and decided even the national economy itself, that three months should be the and there might be cases, in future, period. I am afraid that I cannot when the Government for reasons agree at all with the explanation such as these may want a longer time given by the Honourable Minister of to come to a decision. But I can assure Finance, unless if he were to tell us, the House that it is not the intention as far as this is concerned, that his of the Government to delay a decision Ministry is incompetent, perhaps, to unless it cannot be avoided. We carry out the work and reach a deci­ naturally would like to come to a sion within the period—I mean that decision as soon as possible, and this on the point of view of efficiency, period of six months would give us perhaps, his Ministry or perhaps his some latitude in case it is found Government cannot be considered as necessary to take a longer time to efficient as any other Government. come to a decision. In coming to a decision, the Government would On the other question of reference naturally publish the reasons why it to Parliament, I would like to refer came to a particular decision, and in the Honourable Minister to this parti­ cases where it did not agree with or cular paragraph of the recommenda­ accept a recommendation of the Board, tion, which says: Parliament would no doubt be told "The Mission also recommends, following of the reasons for the Government's the practice of other governments which decision. I hope that answers the point have found it advisable to state publicly and, raised by the Honourable Member. in certain cases, to Parliament, their reasons why, in specific instances, they have not seen Mr Chairman: Are you satisfied with their way to apply the recommendations that answer? submitted by their Advisory Board." 1587 21 AUGUST 1963 1588 What I would like the Minister to Minister of Finance to tell this House clarify is whether he agrees with this why in such respects he departed from recommendation because, as far as I the recommendations, and the fact can see from the Bill, there is no that he is unable to do so gives ground specific provision to the effect that for suspicion that the Government with regard to certain cases, it shall may act purely on political grounds be referred specifically to Parliament; as distinct from economic grounds, and if there is no specific provision, because the Commission will make may I know the reason why? recommendations based purely on economic principles as enunciated in Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Chairman, the report. If the Government is going Sir, whatever is not in the Bill and to depart from any recommendation, does not coincide with the recommen­ then it is quite true that it is obliged dations of the Rueff Report is to state so in the report which will be obviously not acceptable to us, and it publicly published. But I would like is a matter of opinion as to whether to know why is it that they cannot we are right or whether Rueff is right. agree to provisions being made in the I do not wish to get into an argument Bill for matters in which they disagree with the Honourable Member for with the recommendations of the Tanjong, but I would like to make Advisory Board to be put to Parliament. one small point, and that is, this In that respect, I cannot get a satis­ period of six months was agreed to factory answer, and in view of that, it by the Singapore Minister of Finance appears obvious that the Minister of and I think the Honourable Member Finance is trying to avoid public for Tanjong will agree that he is not attention on such matters. an easy man to please, at least in so far as I am concerned. Dr Lim Swee Aun: Under clause 11 Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I am afraid (2) it is very clearly stated that— that the Minister of Finance is not "The Minister shall, not later than six months after receiving a report under this answering my question at all. He is section, publish the report together with the merely trying to evade the whole decision of the Federal Government . . . .". issue, because as far as the recom­ mendation with regard to the tabling So, where is the statement that he is of reports in Parliament is concerned, not going to publish it? Again, under it is a very significant provision Clause 12 (2) it is stated that the because it will focus public attention report—that means the report by the on matters which a non-political body— Tariff Advisory Board—will be tabled like the Tariff Advisory Board recom­ in the House. That meets all the mended and with which the Govern­ requirements, Sir. ment saw fit to disagree. The Hon­ ourable Minister of Finance merely Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I am afraid states, "Well, there are provisions with that the Honourable Minister of which we disagree", and he feels that Commerce and Industry either did he is not obliged to tell us why. I not listen to me just now, or perhaps feel that in debating this Bill and in he is ignorant of the recommendation, agreeing or otherwise with certain which I feel a Minister like him should provisions of this Bill we must know know. He should know this book the reasons. If we take all the trouble upside down, because . . . and all the expense of appointing a Dr Lim Swee Aun: We do. Commission to make an enquiry into certain problems, and the Commission Enche' Tan Phock Kin: . . . because makes certain recommendations and in the book it is stated very clearly— we disagree with the recommendations, and I read it out to the Minister of then surely we are obliged—even Finance—that there are two aspects. without members of the Opposition Publishing is only one aspect of it; asking—to explain matters in fairness to the other aspect is to refer the matter the cause of the debate. I think it should to Parliament and I am asking a be the duty of the Honourable question on that particular aspect. 1589 21 AUGUST 1963 1590 Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Saaid: On a Sir, I would like to know what is the point of clarification. Has any Govern­ criteria which is going to differentiate ment got to agree to any recommen­ "protective duty" and "revenue duty" dation made by a Select Committee or in certain respects. Here it is stated any other Committee? We are not that protective duty is to protect bound to agree to that. products produced in significant Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I agree with quantities, and maybe revenue duty the Honourable Member. I said very is to protect products produced not clearly just now that the Government in significant quantities. In that case, is not obliged to agree. I never said where some goods are produced not that the Government should agree. in significant quantities in our country What I am saying is that if the there may be customs import duty Government disagrees, then the imposed camouflaged as revenue duty Minister of Finance is obliged to tell and in fact it may be for the sake of this House the reasons why the the protection of some particular Government disagrees. It is as simple small industry. If that is the case, what as that, and I am afraid the Honour­ is the use of having a differentiation able Minister of Finance failed just between protective duty and revenue now in this particular respect. duty? Enche' Liu Yoong Peng: I rise to Mr Chairman: Order, order, the seek a clarification on Clause 17 (1), time is up. House resumes. the fourth and fifth sub-paragraphs of which read as follows : House resumed. " 'protective duty' means a customs import duty which is levied in respect of a class of Mr Speaker: Honourable Members, goods or products which are or are to be I have to report to the House that the produced or manufactured and used or consumed in Malaysia in significant quan­ Committee has considered up to tities, or are used or consumed in the Clause 10 of the Bill before the production or manufacture in Malaysia of House. Consideration of the other goods or products of such a class,, or are of clauses will resume tomorrow. The a description providing a substitute for or alternative to goods or products of such a House is adjourned to 10 o'clock a.m. class;" tomorrow. " 'revenue duty' means any customs import duty which is not a protective duty." Adjourned at 6.30 p.m.