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The Royal College of Physicians and Oxford Brookes University Medical Sciences Video Archive MSVA 163 © Oxford Brookes University 2012 The Royal College of Physicians and Oxford Brookes University Medical Sciences Video Archive MSVA 163 Dame Bridget Ogilvie DBE DSc in interview with Dr Max Blythe Oxford 16 May 1997 Interview One MB Dame Bridget Ogilvie, you were born in March 1938, eighteen months before World War II, in New South Wales on a property where your father was farming sheep. BO Yes, that’s right. Father was quite an enthusiastic but not tremendously successful farmer. MB Yes, I heard tell. A great character though. BO Yes, he was. We had merinos. It was mountainous country, a little bit like the Yorkshire Dales probably, and in those early days the winters were very severe there. The sheep didn’t do too well because of the food under this very poor environment and a lack of certain minerals in the soil, so the wool was very fine because the sheep were half-starving and they were very susceptible to disease. MB The winters were cold? BO Oh yes, very cold. Much colder than here in many ways. MB So, on this station among these gentle undulating uplands, you grew up. How many acres did the station have? BO Well, it was about three thousand acres. It was on the New England tableland, which is about three thousand feet above sea level with a very severe climate in winter, a diurnal fluctuation in temperature from Fahrenheit minus ten or twelve degrees up to sixty degrees during the day, so it’s a very severe environment for anything that wants to grow in the winter. MB Take me to that station, Bridget, and tell me a little bit about it. Paint it for me. BO Well, we lived ten miles from the nearest town, which nowadays is nothing at all. MB Which was called? BO Millinus, which in those days had a dirt track and, of course, the war, as you rightly said, broke out shortly after I was born, and so although Australia was not, in terms of people coming and invading the country, involved in the War, we had severe rationing, shortage of petrol and all the rest of it, so my early days were spent very much at home on the farm. MB And a bit isolated? 1 © Oxford Brookes University 2012 BO Quite isolated even though it was near this town of about 6,000 people. MB With little petrol available? BO That’s right. Father and mother had enough petrol to go to town about once a week, and so that was quite a big expedition and on the whole they left the kids at home because we did have some help in the house and help on the farm. So father and mother would go and have some time off in town and leave us at home. I was really very much a farm child in the first part of my life up to my primary years at school. That was also a country school, a small, one teacher school with thirty children in the whole school, all in one room, from the ages of six to twelve with, luckily for us, a really brilliant teacher. He not only managed to get the brighter children on further than you would expect into the high school years while we were still at the primary school, but he also taught the children who were a little bit below average and got them up to surprisingly high levels of education. So I was intellectually extremely lucky to have this privileged environment. MB Perhaps we should put this man on the record? BO Yes, his name was A B Clarke. He was a rather quiet man, his hobby was French-polishing, strangely enough, and he always insisted that he only wanted a small school and he didn’t want to go to a bigger school, although the education department wanted him to go on elsewhere and have more influence over more children. Interestingly enough, of course, when you’re six to twelve you think anybody over the age of eighteen is Methuselah, you know, but about three years ago I discovered that he was still alive and as it turned out in his early nineties, so I wrote to him to say I was so glad to get in touch with him and to thank him for this wonderful education he gave me. Initially, he was a bit concerned because I joined this class when I was nearly six actually, with three boys, Johnnie Pilling, Vincent Winter, Neil Hamilton and myself, and for the first year I didn’t really know what it was all about, so at the end of the year A B Clarke came to my father and said, ‘John Ogilvie, I regret to tell you that I’m afraid your daughter’s a bit backward.’ And father, who by then knew very well that I was always pretty slow on the uptake, said, ‘Well, Abe, yes I know she seems that way, but please give her a second chance.’ So we had a little exam and that galvanised me into action and I got the message! So I didn’t come bottom of the class again after that. MB But this A B Clarke, he just poured himself out. He wanted to give so much? BO Yes, he was a brilliant teacher actually. I know now, looking back, what he did. First of all, there was very firm discipline in those days, there was no nonsense and if you misbehaved you were either thrown out and made to walk home, which could be a five mile walk in those days, or he used a stick, which of course is politically very incorrect these days. He used the brighter children to teach the others and I remember now that what he used to do when he was teaching a new arithmetic trick, say long division, he’d teach me and then when he saw I’d got it, he’d leave me to teach the others in my class, and so there was always a low hum of conversation in the classroom. And we were also taught that when we’d finished the set work, we’d get out a book, once we’d learnt to read, and read. So he really had a gift, this man. MB Good school dynamic? 2 © Oxford Brookes University 2012 BO Oh, tremendous dynamic and of course a tremendous mixed range of abilities of children. So he was a most gifted man. I was very lucky. MB Was he a mathematician? BO No, I think he was just trained as a primary school teacher in the New South Wales Department of Education. MB But you’ve shot off after the hare with that because we were talking about home and you’ve already been to school. Just going back to that home, tell me about father and mother. Let’s talk about father because I think you formed a close relationship with him first? BO Yes, I think it’s probably quite normal for girls to form a particularly close relationship with their father at the end of the first ten years. MB But this was a bit special? BO We had a very special relationship, yes, because I used to help on the farm a great deal once I’d learnt to ride a horse, because we did most of the things with the sheep on horseback. MB This was before school? BO Yes. Well, about the same time I started at school I would help, but quite often I would be kept back from school to help on the farm and occasionally I used to ride my horse to school for the fun of it really more than anything else, which was a five mile ride. MB And occasionally you used to ride on horseback with father on incredible gallops? BO Oh yes. Well, my father was a gentle man and really great fun, but actually during World War II, believe it or not, he joined the regiment which was formed in that part of New South Wales, which was still a mounted regiment, the Hunter River Lancers, because the Hunter River runs a bit further south from Newcastle up the Hunter Valley. And most of my father’s friends were majors or colonels or something, but father was never very keen on fighting. He used to say, ‘I think I was a bit too intelligent because I could always realise that the gun emplacements were in the wrong place.’ The guns were wood because the real guns had all been sent to Britain after the beginning of the war. He had a great mate, a lifelong mate, called Doug Abbott and he and Doug were both privates when all their friends were officers, and one day one of their mutual friends, Major White, came to them and said, ‘Ogilvie, Abbott, we need a corporal and a lance corporal. Now you two can toss for it.’ So, before they tossed, they agreed that they’d split the difference in pay because they were all terribly hard up, you know. It was the end of the Depression when war broke out and father always used to say with a twinkle in his eye, ‘Having said that, every time I came out of the pay tent – O coming rather further down the alphabet than A for Abbott – there’d be that so-and-so Abbott sitting there waiting with his hand out.’ These little stories were very characteristic of my father, little stories against himself partly, and his great friend Doug Abbott.
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