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Vol. 624 Wednesday, No. 4 4 October 2006 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 4 October 2006. Leaders’ Questions ………………………………1597 Questions—Questions Taoiseach …………………………………1603 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ………………1620 Order of Business ………………………………1621 Road Traffic and Transport Bill 2006 [Seanad]: Second Stage ………………………………1629 Committee and Remaining Stages ………………………1642 Patents (Amendment) Bill 1999: Order for Second Stage ……………………………1644 Report and Final Stages ……………………………1645 Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Second Stage (resumed) ……………………………1658 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Social and Family Affairs Priority Questions ……………………………1661 Other Questions ……………………………1675 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1687 Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Second Stage (resumed) ……………………………1687 Private Members’ Business Public Expenditure: Motion (resumed) ………………………1735 Adjournment Debate Ambulance Service ……………………………1767 Housing Aid for the Elderly …………………………1768 Hospitals Building Programme …………………………1770 State Airports ………………………………1773 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1777 1597 1598 DA´ IL E´ IREANN The only question of substance the Deputy asked was whether I got a gift or donation in any ———— other jurisdiction. If I did not answer it yesterday, my apologies. No, I did not. De´ Ce´adaoin, 4 Deireadh Fo´mhair 2006. Wednesday, 4 October 2006. Mr. Stanton: What? ———— Mr. Durkan: How does the Taoiseach know? Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar Mr. O’Dowd: Answer the questions. 10.30 a.m. Mr. Kenny: It is simply incredible that a Mini- ———— ster of Finance who did not have a bank account was still in a position to put together more than Paidir. \60,000 in savings in the 1990s. Deputy Rabbitte Prayer. queried where that might have been kept. This matter consumes the public. ———— Mr. Martin: It does not. Leaders’ Questions. Mr. Kenny: First, we should congratulate the Mr. Kelleher: It consumes the Deputy. Leas-Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Pattison, who was elected to the House 45 years ago today. That Mr. Bruton: The public does not believe what is an outstanding record of public service. Government Members are saying. Deputies: Hear, hear. Mr. Kenny: None of the Government Members believe he did wrong anyway. Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach addressed the Will the Taoiseach clarify what is now the new House for two hours yesterday, trying to explain standard accepted by the Progressive Democrats his position. He failed in a number of fundamen- and Fianna Fa´il, which means, as far as I can tal areas to answer pertinent questions. He failed understand it, that any Minister can attend a to explain how he amassed a sum of more than function, switch off his or her public ministry, \60,000 without having a bank account. People become a private citizen, feel that he or she is not find this incredible and he might take some time under obligation to any organisation and accept to explain that and, for example, whether his \60,000 without it being morally, politically or monthly salary cheque was cashed in the same ethically incorrect? place. How could that happen? He also failed to address the contradiction An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is between not accepting money in Dublin and concluded. accepting money in Manchester. He said that if he saw the collection going around the table, he Mr. Kenny: What is the difference between would not have accepted it, yet he did so when that and what happened to the former Minister he walked out the door and the person who of State, Deputy Callely? handed it to him, God rest his soul, was not in a position to tell him whether it was a political An Ceann Comhairle: I am sorry, but the donation or a personal donation. Deputy cannot go on asking questions after his The Taoiseach failed to respond comprehen- minute is concluded. The Taoiseach only has a sively to a question as to whether he attended minute to reply. a function in any other jurisdiction and received personal moneys. There is an old saying down the Mr. Kenny: If the Taoiseach finds that any of country that a hen that lays out once will lay out his Ministers is caught in that boat, will he be able again. He might like to address these questions. to sack them? An Ceann Comhairle: I thank the Deputy for The Taoiseach: The Government and the staying within his two minutes. House have brought in a range of stringent legis- lation over the past decade which governs this The Taoiseach: I spent two hours 20 minutes House. This includes the Ethics in Public Office answering questions here yesterday and I spent Act 1995 and the Standards in Public Office Act an hour last week. At every opportunity where 2001. We all make our annual returns. members of the national media asked questions I appreciate Deputy Kenny’s previous state- over the past two weeks, whether that was in ments that he does not want to go in to my separ- Clare, Cavan or Dublin, I answered. I gave com- ation issues. I have explained that the accounts prehensive answers yesterday so I will not go on were in our joint names and when I was going each day rehashing the same questions. through the separation agreement, I did not put 1599 Leaders’ 4 October 2006. Questions 1600 [The Taoiseach.] Mr. Rabbitte: ——and we have to use them for the money into a joint account. That is all I did political purposes. for the obvious reason that—— An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is Mr. Durkan: Where did the Taoiseach put it? concluded. The Taoiseach: ——if one is going through a Mr. Rabbitte: Is that the case or not? separation, life is not particularly easy. That is all The Taoiseach referred to the 1995 Act. I I did. I did no more than that. asked him yesterday whether those gentlemen from Manchester were doing business here, Mr. Connaughton: Where did the Taoiseach whether they had been awarded any contracts, put the money? whether they had been appointed to any position and so on. We certainly know in the case of Mr. Stanton: Did he put it under the bed or Drumcondra 1 and Drumcondra 2 that many of something? those involved have been appointed on several occasions to State boards. Ms O. Mitchell: What about the £50,000? An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time is The Taoiseach: That is irrelevant. concluded. Mr. Durkan: It is not irrelevant. Mr. Rabbitte: Is the Taoiseach not required under the 1995 Act to declare whether he got any Mr. F. McGrath: What about the 34% increase benefit from these people before they were in gas prices? appointed? Did he so declare? Mr. Rabbitte: Last week the Ta´naiste and The Taoiseach: We are all governed by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform standards applying to political accounts and during his brief flirtation imagining he was donations. The Minister, Deputy Martin, made Desmond O’Malley said the one thing he wanted that clear. I stated that I have attended many the Taoiseach to make clear was the identity of functions and social events in Manchester. To try the donors at Manchester. However, the one to piece together a list of every person who thing the Taoiseach did not make clear yesterday attended each individual event from the time I was the identity of the donors at Manchester. first began going to Manchester as a councillor, a Although at Ballyjamesduff the Taoiseach said he Deputy and a backbencher is impossible. I cannot had been over there so many times that there was do it and will not be able to do it. I have not a business organisation in Manchester that he explained this to the House, to the public and had not spoken to and he knew these guys well, everywhere else. I have no problem getting a list he seems to have resiled from that position. He of people but I cannot reconstitute a list. That is named a person who is deceased and the gentle- the position. man who went on the television said it definitely The Deputy asked me whether any people was not a political donation. The Ta´naiste stated from Manchester had been appointed to any in this morning’s newspapers that the Taoiseach boards. The answer is that they have not been. told him that he would reconstitute the list. Yes- terday, the Taoiseach said more people from Mr. O’Dowd: How does the Taoiseach know Manchester who think they were there contacted that? him than attended the original event. Is Deputy McDowell correct when he states that he expects Mr. Durkan: I thought he could not remem- the Taoiseach will reconstitute that list? ber them. Second, the Minister seated beside the Taoiseach, Deputy Martin, who would defend An Ceann Comhairle: This is Deputy anything, says there is no difficulty in this regard. Rabbitte’s question. He says anybody can go to Manchester, or to any function, and take any money for his or her per- The Taoiseach: Deputy Rabbitte asked me sonal benefit so long as he or she declares it. whether I am beholden in any way to any of the others who gave me loans, which I paid back in Mr. F. McGrath: He said that on the airwaves. full with interest. I am not. Mr. Rabbitte: Is that the position? I understood Mr. Rabbitte: That is not what I asked the the position was that if donations are made to Taoiseach. I asked him to state whether he com- Members of this House, we must put them into plied with section 14 of the Ethics in Public Office our political accounts—— Act 1995, which required him to state whether he received any material interest or benefit from Mr.

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