CERTIFICATION
The Minutes of Proceedings which appear in the following book have been established by the Clerk of Parliament and have been amended and confirmed by Parliament in accordance with the provisions of Article 18 of the Standing Orders of Parliament.
Lino Bulekuli dit SACSAC Speaker of Parliament Clerk of Parliament
i PARLIAMENT OF THE PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIC OF VANUATU REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
ALICK, Hon. John Robert Member for Tongoa AVOCK, Hon. Sam Dan Member for Paama BANGTOR, Hon. Daniel Aaron Mem ber for A m brym BONGNAIM, Hon. Irene Leingkon Member for Ambrym BOULEKONE, Hon. Vincent Member for Pentecost BULE, Hon. James Member for Ambae CALO, Hon. Joe Bomal Member for Efate HAKWA, Hon. Silas Charles Member for Ambae IMBERT, Hon. Jimmy Member for Santo JIMMY, Hon. Willie Member for Port Vila KALPOKAS, Hon. Donald Member for Efate KILMAN, Hon. Sato Member for Malekula KORMAN, Hon. Maxime Carlot Member for Port Vila LEMAYA, Hon. Kila Mande Member for Epi LEO, Hon. Clement Member for Port Vila LINI, Hon. Walter Hadye Member for Pentecost MAHE, Hon. Jean Alain Member for Santo MERIFAR, Hon. Josiah Tom Member for Ma lekula MOLI, Hon. Josias Member for Malo MOLISA, Hon. Sela Member for Santo NAFUKI, Hon. Allan Member for Outer Southern Islands NATAPEI, Hon. Edward Nipake Member for Port Vila NATUMAN, Hon. Joe Member for Tanna NAUNUN, Hon. laris Member for Tanna NICKLAM, Hon. Jimmy Member for Tanna PASVU, Hon. Philip Iercet Member for Santo POSEN, Hon. Willy Member for Tanna RAKOM, Hon. Foster Member for Efate RAVUTIA, Hon. Albert Pisuvoke Member for Santo RAYARU, Hon. Wilson Member for Port Vila REGINALD, Hon. Stanley Member for Banks/Torres SAIMON, Hon. Esmon Mem ber for Malekula SESE, Hon. Jacques Member for Ambae SONG, Hon. Keasipai Member for Tanna SOPE, Hon. Barak Tame Member for Efate STEVEN, Hon. Morkin Iatika Member for Tanna
11 TABI, Hon. Barnabas Member for Pentecost TABI, Hon. Jonas Kuran Member for Pentecost TAGA, Hon. Henri Tarikarea Member for Port Vila TARI, Hon. John Molibaraf Member for Santo TARI, Hon. Paul Ren Member for Maewo TELLKLLK, Hon. Paul Barthelemie Member for Malekula THYNA, Hon. Jacob Member for Malekula TINWAKO, Hon. Anas Member for Santo TITEK, Hon. Jacklyn Reuben Member for Port Vila TITONGOA, Hon. Amos Member for Shepherds VARASMAITE, Hon. Willie Ollie Member for Epi VOHOR, Hon. Serge Rialuth Member for Santo WELLS, Hon. George Andre Member for Luganville WILLIE, Hon. John Morrison Member for Malekula WILSON, Hon. Barnabas Member for Banks/Torres YAUKO, Hon. Henry Member for Tanna
111 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
THIRD EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF 1998
WEDNESDAY 29TH JULY 1998
SPEAKER : The Hon.. Nipake. E. NATAPEI, Member for Port Vila.
PRESENT : The Hon.. John A lick ROBERT, Member for Tonga The Hon.. Sam Dan AVOK, Member for Paama The Hon.. Daniel BANGTOR, Member for Ambiym The Hon.. Joe Bomal CALO, Member for Efate The Hon.. James BULE, Member for Ambae The Hon.. Donald KALPOKAS, Member for Efate The Hon.. Clement LEO, Member for Pentecost The Hon.. Walter. H. LINI, Member for Pentecost The Hon.. Josias Tom MERIFAR, Member for Malekula The Hon.. Josias MOLI, Member for Malo The Hon., Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo The Hon.. latika STEVENS, Member for Tanna The Hon.. Allan NAFUKJ, Member for Outer Islands The Hon. Edward E. NATPAEI, Member for Port Vila. The Hon. Iarris NAUNUN, Member for Tanna The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna The Hon. Philip PASVU, Member for Santo The Hon. Poster RAKOM, Member for Efate The Hon.. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna The Hon. Wilson RAYARU, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Barnabas Andy TABI, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Jonas TABIKURAN, Member for Pentecost The Hon. John Tari MOLIBARAF, Member for Santo The Hon. Paul Ren TARI, Member for Maewo The Hon. Annas TINWAKU, Member for Luganville The Hon. Jackleen Rueben TITEKS, Member for Malekula The Hon. Willie Oli VARASMAITE, Member for Epi The Hon. George Andre WELLS, Member for Luganville The Hon. John Morrison WTLLIE, Member for Malekula The Hon, Barnabas WILSON, Member for Banks ABSENT The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Esmon SAIMON, Member for Malekula The Hon. Silas HAKWA, Member for Ambae The Hon. Jimmy IMBERT, Member for Santo The Hon. Jimmy WILLIE, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Sato KILMAN, Member for Malekula The Hon. Irenee B LEINGKONE, Member for Ambrym The Hon. Kila LEMAYA, Member for Epi The Hon. Jean Alain MAHE, Member for Santo The Hon. Joe NATUMAN, Member for Tanna The Hon. Albert RAVUTIA, Member for Santo The Hon. Willy POSEN, Member for Tanna The Hon. Stanley REGINALD, member for Banks The Hon. Serge VOHOR RIALUTH, Member for Santo The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae The Hon. Barak. T SOPE, Member for Efate The Hon. Henry Karea TAGA, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jacob THYNA, Member for Malekula The Hon. Amos TITONGOA, Member for Emae The Hon. Henry YAUKO, Member for Tanna
1. The Honourable Speaker of Parliament noticed that there was no quorum and adjourned the Session until 3rd August 1998 in accordance with paragraph (4) of Article 21 of the Constitution.
2. The sitting adjourned at 2.45 p.m
2 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
THIRD EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF 1998
MONDAY 3RD AUGUST 1998
SPEAKER : The Hon. Nipake E. NATAPEI, Member for Port Vila
PRESENT 47 Members
LATE : The Hon. Esmon SA1MON, Member for Malekula The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jacob THYNA, Member for Malekula.
1. The Hon. Speaker opened the sitting at 8.50 a.m and asked Parliament to observe a minute of silence in respect of the death of Alexis Bulekuli, the father of Lino Bulekuli, Clerk of the Parliament.
2. The Hon. Allen NAFUK1, Member for Other Southern Islands and the Government Whip, said the prayer.
3. The Hon. Speaker read the Agenda.
4. The Hon. Paul Ren TARI, Member for Maewo and Leader of the Government Business, announced the Bills to be debated.
BILL FOR THE LOAN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE ASIAN DEVELOPMENT BANK AND THE VANUATU THE GOVERNMENT ACT NO. OF 1998
FIRST READING
5. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, tabled the Bill and moved that it be read a first time.
3 6. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, said that he was terminated from being the Minister of Finance because the ADB felt that he was an obstacle on the study, which the ADB was carrying out on the economy of the country, the merging of the DBV and NBV. He added that he did not agree with some of the loan conditions of the ADB and he would vote against the Bill.
7. The Hon. Barak. T SOPE, Member for Efate, said that every projects implement with foreign loans was not successful and that the ADB loan would not improve the situation of the country and also opposed the loan conditions as the Mortgage of The Government’s assets. He added that the Opposition would vote against the Bill because he felt that the loan would not be used to finance an activity nor a project to generate revenues for the country. He also felt that the loan would oblige the Government to impose the VAT that would make life more difficult for Ni-Vanuatu and also demanded the merging of the two local Banks.
8. The Hon. Prime Minister was sorry to see that some people did not appreciate the situation, which we are living in today and said that we cannot get out from this situation in folded arms and that was why we needed a reform. He added that with this reform we could bring back confidence in the country and attract new investors.
9. The Hon. Joe NATUMAN, Minister of Education, supported the principle of the Bill and said that every problem which existed in the country today were known and that was why we had to take a reform which was an adequate solution to solve these problems. He added that the former the Government in the past years had taken a loan from some lending institutions, which were not appropriate lending institutions, and that this the Government would take a loan from a foreign lending institution, which was recognised internationally to avoid the same mistakes.
10. The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae, considered that the loan would not change the country’s situation unless people changed their mentality. There were different interpretations of the term “right sizing” that it was more like “downsizing” the workforce. He said that the Banks had already received loans. He said that foreign managers did not prove that there be better management in the Bank. He said that it was like being re-colonized with the more external assistance and technical experts coming in, usually expatriates, who worked for more than two years, did not train Ni-Vanuatu so that replacement could take place and in a way, expatriates were intentionally prolonging it to happen. On reading through the Bill, he saw that there were guidelines by which the country could obtain a loan. He considered that instead of reducing the workforce, there was more of an increase.
11. The Hon. Walter H LINI, Minister of Internal Affairs, listened with interest to the comments raised by both sides of the House. Both Opposition and the Government were aware of the financial situation of the country. Since 1993, the
4 national reserves were exhausted and also a lot of proposals were forwarded of which some Government had either accepted or refused them. Because of differences of opinion, there was no point to prolong the discussion. He stated there were various financial institution (F.I) whether it be private or not, which made it difficult in deciding which F.I. to work through. He commented there were also individuals who had caused the Government to make wrong decisions and as a result were issued warnings; others were still waiting to be heard in court. He stressed the importance that Politicians must learn to have confidence and trust on each other. They must also be aware that there were experienced advisers within Vanuatu so there was no need to seek foreign assistance and also CRP has made it must easier to locate them. He suggested that a vote be taken. The current Government had taken a stand and if it did not work out the way it should, the next The Government could make amendments.
12. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, raised a point of order that MPs were not allowed to speak more than three times.
13. The sitting was suspended at 10.25 a.m and resumed at 10.55 a.m.
14. The Hon. larris NAUNUN, Member for Tanna, supported the Bill and said that the Bill came into Parliament because of the current situation. This loan therefore went towards the reform. He pointed out that a lot of politicians made loans and were unfaithful in their repayment. The CRP was initiated by the Leader of the Opposition therefore Opposition should support the Bill and give constructive criticism.
15. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, pointed out that the Government did not spend VT 78 million on the Wurrata Group; VT 7 million was for the Consultation fee. He accused the Government for having writing off certain arrears on the NBV and DBV. He recalled that in 1995, the former Government had left more than half in the reserves than in 1991. His The Government had even injected funds into the NBV and DBV to restore their lending capital. Because of the consuming lending portfolio, it exhausted the Banks assets. He questioned why there had not been any injection of funds to these two institutions; only VT 400 million instead of VT 600 million was injected. He said that the nature of a personal loan differed from that of a state loan. He remarked that it was an individual MPS choice as to whether or not to support the Bill and it did not matter if it was the Leader of the Opposition who initiated CRP. In regards to the VNPF riot, an investigation should be carried out to find the cause. Concerning the 1% service tax. He said that it would highly depend on the economic performances of Vanuatu between this year and year 2018. He did not belief that Vanuatu was in a catastrophic situation as in Rwanda and Somalia.
16. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, thanked all those who contributed to the debate. He went on to say that the reform came about to make the Government more transparent and accountable for its actions that is to abide by
5 the law. With an increase in population, the demand in the Government services also increased. He said that VCMB would remain because of its official reserves. There was about % revenue from other commodities held in private Banks. ADB did not impose any criteria on Vanuatu, it was on the Government’s own accord and as a result “right sizing” came about so that right people were placed in their rightful positions. Those made redundant were handsomely compensated. In order that the reform be effective, money was required but because there were no funds available, the Government must borrow. He clarified that Vat was established by the Government and not ADB, He said that 22% of GDP was public debts therefore it was necessary for Vanuatu to obtain a loan.
17. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m and resumed at 2.10 p.m.
18. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, congratulated the Government for the negotiation of the loan to implement the CRP but felt that the merging of the two local Banks was not a better solution for Ni-Vanuatu who wanted to take a loan and start a business. He hoped that with this loan there would be more The Government services in education and health in the rural areas.
19. The Hon. Paul. B. TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, said that the Principle of the Bill was totally negative and that the actual Government should reconsider the Loan Conditions which were not favourable. He added that the ADB loan would oblige the Government to impose the VAT that would favour the increase of prices and make life more difficult for Ni-Vanuatu whose salaries were modest.
20. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, said that the Government had chosen this loan because we had no money and that the Government had taken the loan to Implement the CRP. He supported the principle of the Bill because this loan would allow the Government to restructure the Public Service in order to have a right size of Public Service of the Vanuatu Government. He added that to have a good Government there should be a good administration and not foreign consultants to administrate. The MP of Port Vila asked at the same time as to what was the equivalent of US$1200000 was equivalent to 1.5 billion in Vatu and a special drawing rights was equivalents to US$20 000,000. He added that aid donors as Australia, NZ, France and the UK were happy about the reform and they would continue to support financially.
21. The Hon. Minister Sela MOLISA thanked the MPs for their comments and admitted that the Government should make an effort to provide better services to the rural population. He said that US$1 200 000 was equivalent to 1.5 billion in vatu and a special drawing rights was equivalents to US $20 000,000. He added that aid donors as Australia, NZ and France and the UK were happy about the reform and they would continue to support financially.
22. The Hon. Barak. T SOPE, Member for Efate, said that the fact that the Government was already in a bad situation and it had taken a loan would only
6 worsen the situation in a way that we were having more debts. He also said that the CRP would not only consist of the ADB loan because there were yet some other activities and other solutions which contributed to improve the effectiveness of the administrative services, create enterprises which would improve the country’s economy growth. He added that there was no guarantee that this loan would foster the improvement of services to the rural population. The MP of Efate continued to say that there were other lending institutions whose loan conditions were better and favourable than those of the ADB.
23. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Santo, reminded that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition had already negotiated Vt 1.5 billion while he was still the Deputy Prime Minister but the present Government only negotiated five hundred million. He also reminded that every loan from the ADB and other Banks were all secured by the Government’s asset and felt that the comments of Deputy Leader of the Opposition were purely political.
24. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was carried with 23 votes in favour and 16 votes against.
COMMITTEE STAGE
Section 1, “Approval”
25. The Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, queried the Minister of Finance on the part of the loan that would be used for paying the foreign consultants.
26. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, confirmed that the ADB also gave some funds to pay the foreign consultants but were not included in the loan.
27. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, queried as to what was the equivalent of US$1 200 000 in vatu.
28. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, responded that USDS 1 200 000 was about 1.450 billion in vatu.
29. The Hon. Paul. B TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, asked as to what “local expenses ” meant
30 The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, responded that they were costs or expenses, which would be met by the Vanuatu Government. He continued to say that UN should not make classification to distinguish between small island states and major countries. Vanuatu’s provision was to pledge it’s national assets as done to other loans. In regards to NBV, the main concern was the procedure to allow loans. Unless certain criteria were satisfied, the Bank would grant a Joan and this was the actual loan procedure. Expatriates employed would be on a 2-
7 year contract and by then there would be experienced and qualified Ni-Vanuatu available to replace them. It was necessary' to take these steps so as to enable the bank to regain its revenue. The Government was considering selling the 49% Bank shares in the near future.
31. The sitting was suspended at 3.40 p.m and resumed at 4.05 p.m.
32. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, referred to Attachment 2, Schedule 3, Pl7, that the appointment of Directors for the Banks followed their professional qualifications. He questioned as to whether the Government followed that criteria.
33. The Hon. Esmon SAIMON, Member for Malekula, asked why the Government would take 40 years rather than 4-8 years to repay the loan.
34. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, in response to MP SOPE’s query, said that there would be a further amendment on NPF Act next Session. CRP documents stated that appointments would be based on total points following one’s qualification. As to MP SAIMON’s query, STR 14.977.000 was equivalent to US$20 million that was equivalent to Vt 2.600 million. The reason for 40 years to repay loans was to prevent future recurrent budget from limiting repayment of loans.
35. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know the annual reimbursement to be paid.
36. The Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, on page 10, Schedule 1, asked clarification as to the commencement date of the program being July 1997 and not 1998-2000.
37. The Hon. Sela MOLISA. Minister of Finance, on MP KORMAN’s query, replied that the amount between VT 7.4 million - VT 7.5 million would be paid annually. In regards to MP SONG’s query, the Minister said that July 1997 was the year negotiations took place and the reimbursement of loan was effective then.
38. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member or Port Vila, was not clear on what “eligible items” were in 52 (d). He said that in 1985, the GDP was not Vt 8000 compared to US$640 as stated in the loan agreement. The Government should tick the items that have already been implemented. The requirements in P17 must be satisfied before the second release of funds on P.18. He stated that it was not an easy task.
39. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, replied that the eligible items were on purchasable under the loan. About the Vt 490 million would be used to pay redundant officers and work was already in process. Vacancy Notices had already been advertised in both overseas and locally. By the end of September, a team of ADB expert will need to study the release of the first tranche and discuss as to
8 whether or not there be adjustments or amendments to the agreement before the release of the second tranche.
40. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, queried on Pl7 concerning VAT, NBV and redundancy of the Public Service. On VAT, he asked if there were conditions to ensure that the Government must not removed the VAT Law after the release of the first tranche. He said that there should be a condition that stated that the law should cover a period of 40 years or more. He considered it non obligatory to maintain the condition for 40 years because after 10 years there would be qualified people in the country. He saw that after Year 2000, there was no need for recruitment of foreigners because there were no conditions laid out. He said that ADB couldn’t impose sanctions if part of the contract was broken.
41 The Hon. Sela MOL1SA, Minister of Finance, responded that VAT was part of the condition that had already come in effect as of 1 August 1998. The Expatriate Officers had a contract of 2 years only and after expiry of term, Ni-Vanuatu would be placed in those positions. If the contract were broken, the aid donors, financial institutions would react. Conditions were imposed so that loans could be obtained.
42. Section 1 was approved on division.
43. Section 2, “Commencement”, was approved on division.
SECOND READING
44. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, moved that the Bill be read a second time and pass.
45. The motion was approved with 28 votes for and 14 against.
BILL FOR THE BUSINESS LICENCE (AMENDMENT) ACT NO. OF 1998.
46. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, introduced the Bill, stated its purpose and moved that it be read a first time.
47. The sitting was adjourned at 5 p.m.
9 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
THIRD EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF 1998
TUESDAY 4TH AUGUST 1998
SPEAKER : The Hon. Nipake E. NATAPEI, Member for Port Vila
PRESENT : 41 Members
LATE ; The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Esmon SAIMON, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jimmy IMBERT, Member for Santo The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Member for Efate The Hon. Joe NATUMAN, Member for Tanna The Hon. Albert RAVUTIA, Member for Santo The Hon. Barak. T. SOPE, Member for Efate The Hon. John Tari MOLIBARAF, Member for Santo The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula The Jacob THYNA, Member for Malekula.
1. The Hon. Speaker opened the sitting at 8.45 a.m.
2. The Hon. Kila LEMAYA, Member for Epi, said the prayer.
3. The Hon. Speaker read the Agenda.
BILL FOR THE BUSINESS LICENCE (AMENDMENT) ACT NO. OF 1998
4. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that there were some corrections to be made in the Bill during the Committee Stage.
5. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, said that the Bill was good because it defined the roles of the licensing authority. He added that this Bill
10 would favour more flexibility at this time and that it would encourage the rural population to go into business.
6. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, felt that this Bill did not reduced the business licence fees of activities which Ni-Vanuatu were not part of it. He said that this new law had regrouped every activity into one category while the past law had separated them under different categories and that it would disappoint the public because the reductions, which exited in the new Law, were very minimal.
7. The Hon. Willy POSEN, Member for Tanna, felt that these reductions of business licence fees would only benefit businessmen in town while the rural population would be victims of the VAT. He added that they should never forget the rural people each time they voted for this law in Parliament.
8. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, said that he was worried for the rural people who had worked on their land and produced quality products such as copra which its price would increase in the years to come and that these island producers also had the initiative to export themselves their products overseas. He added that the VCMB had the exclusive right to export copra and this time to export kava and that was why the MP of Pentecost queried the Government if it was correct, He felt that this Bill did not consider the Ni-Vanuatu businessmen but only the expatriates who were in business. He queried at the same time as to how would this Bill help the rural population.
9. The Hon, Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that this Bill tried to simplify the categories of business licence, especially for Ni-Vanuatu who wanted to export local commodities that were to be exempted and there was no more need to obtain an export permit. He felt that this Bill would encourage the local enterprises to export more.
10. The Hon. Joe NATUMAN, Minister of Education, supported the principle of the Bill because the ideas were going in line with the CRP and that it also gave some rights or power to the local authorities. He felt that the Bill should be put to vote.
11. The Hon, Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, was happy that Ni-Vanuatu would be exempted from business licence fees and that to him it was an obstacle for those who wanted to enter into business. He felt that the Government had well balanced business licence because business licence fees did not encourage Ni-Vanuatu businessmen to take up business.
12. The Hon. Joe Bomal CARLO, Member for Efate, said that the business licence was a balance of economy for a country and felt that if the Government would give more exemption it would stop some business. He
11 added that expatriates had taken more advantage on Ni-Vanuatu and that was why there should be a good control by the authorities concerned.
13. The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae, considered that the Bill gave an opportunity to people to operate their businesses and The Government should provide assistance. He said because of the increase of business licence into business due to lack of finance. It would be proper for The Government to conduct awareness programs to educate people about establishing a business.
14. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, was pleased with the comment raised by MP SESE on the point regarding educating Ni-Vanuatu on establishing a business. However, it was a paradox in the sense that there is free competition in that there can be a rise and/or fall of a business. Such countries like in Australia, there are laws that state a foreign investor can own only a certain portion of a company. The Government may see to such law to protect the consumer. In the case of buses and taxis, the latter considered there was unfair competition. He went on to say that some countries exercise positive discrimination in that some businesses were for locals and some were foreigners only. The Government should give a business the chance to operate freely. In regards to Duty Free Zone, it will be revived but at present The Government encouraged Duty Free Shopping.
15. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, declared he had no interest in any business and said he supported the Bill but disapproved of the issue of discrimination. He said that as an independent nation it should be responsible for its affaires. He went on to say that questions raised should be based on business licence. He said that The Government should not be involved in training Ni-Vanuatu to establish a business but should concentrate more on local an overseas market. The Government should establish a copra mill and a kava-processing factory at once before Vanuatu would late in finding markets to export the products to, as was the case of beef. Economic self-reliance depended greatly on the quality of the products.
16. The sitting was suspended at 10.30 a.m and resumed at 11.30 a.m.
17. The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, said that after the introduction of VAT, the Government would introduce import and profit tax, which would be ejected from the Government’s revenue. The reasons were due to the reduction of business licenses. He said with the reduction of business licences, which was the main source of revenue of the Provinces and along with removal of 5% from the national budget to them. The Government has prevented development and progress. He wanted to know whether The Government would give to the Provinces a part of the revenue received from VAT. He said that with the next Bill, Provinces no longer kept part of the revenue collected from Business licenses and only the Minister could award a license. He also queried as to the classification of Credit Union (C.U) which
12 operated like a bank and if categorized as a bank, it would cease to function. He went on to question that on what guarantee would The Government give if the business licences for Banks were reduced and suggested that the Banks should reduce their interest rates.
18. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that other Ministers would respond to queries regarding the oil mill and kava factor. As to the queries raised by MP TELUKLUK, the Minister replied that VAT revenue would be given to the Provinces and increase in the subvention can only come about if the Provinces can improve their economic situation. He pointed out that Chamber of Commerce would also be affected however the Government would need to discuss with Chamber of Commerce on subvention to be awarded to them. There was a need to look carefully at how taxes could be received by the provisions. On C.U. it would be provided in a new law on the procedure of payment of fees, which would be tables next Session. Concerning the Banks, the Government would still continue to receive its 2% turnover. The Government was unable to legislate in regards to the interest rates. The current trend in the world today was not to control interest rates.
19. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was approved with 30 votes for and 16 against.
COMMITTEE STAGE
Section 1, “Interpretation”
20 The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, pointed out a change in F3 with a new F3 draft. He said that in the new F3 (a) draft beside the phrase ""Domicile Vanuatu Insurance Company” insert “2,00% of turnover.” The same insertion was also made in F3 (b), F3 (c) beside “insurance agents” insert “VT 20.000” and the same amount was also inserted beside “insurance brokers ”.
21. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m. and resumed at 2.15 p.m.
22. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that there was a correction to be made in Schedule 1 when they would deal with Section 18 by deleting the number “200,000” and substituted by “20000”.
23. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, queried if there were no more corrections to be made before Section 18.
24. Section 1 was approved on division.
13 Section 2, “Business Licences”
25. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, confirmed that the Exemption list was corrected and there was no need to correct it.
26. The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, queried if the Credit Unions were also exempted since hat law was not yet passed.
27. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, responded that the Co operative Act covered Credit Unions.
28. Section 2 was approved on division.
Section 3, “Licensing Authority”
29. The Hon. Irenee BONGNAIM, Member for Ambrym, asked as to what was the status of the Municipality in this law and why the Municipal Council did not have the right to issue some licence.
30. The Hon. Sela MOLJSA, Minister of Finance, said that the Municipal Council already benefited from the property taxes.
31. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, questioned as to why the foreign investment board was not included in the list of authorities to issue licenses.
32. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, admitted that there should be a regrouping of competent authorities in the granting of licences but it was a first step at the moment and it’s better to experiment the actual system before considering another.
33. Tite Hon. Jean Alain MAHE, Member for Santo, queried if the Government had no intention to establish or impose an excess fee in the Provinces because business licences were paid in Port Vila while the activities were taking place in the Provinces. He added that this fee would help the Provinces to generate some revenues because the 5% of the national revenue that Provinces were entitled to were already deleted.
34. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that there was already an excess fee but it only concerned mining exploration.
35. The Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, queried if every fee collected by the Provinces were given to the Provinces or a part was given to the Government.
14 36. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, responded that every fees collected by the Provinces went back to the Provinces.
37. Section 3 was approved on division.
38. Section 4.“ApDlication For Licences”, was approved on division.
39. Section 5, “Issue Of Licence”, was approved on division.
Section 6, “Foreign Investors Entitlement To Business Licence”
40. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, said that the obtaining of a licence was not a privilege because the Government would lose money if he cancelled a licence once he found out that an investor was dishonest. He queried as to how would an investor be identified as a dishonest investor.
41. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that a licence could be cancelled if it was given to a foreign investor while the activity to be exploited was reserved for Ni-Vanuatu.
42. Section 6 was approved on division.
Section 7 “Issue Of Business Licence - Business Listed In Section 13”
43. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, queried if the transport licence should be paid to the Municipal or provincial authorities.
44. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that there were many disputes on this matter but certain people had a Municipal and Provincial licence at the same time. He also added that they had to be precise on the sort of licence transporters should obtain.
45. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, asked if the Director of Customs could issue a licence without consulting the Minister concerned.
46. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that some licence could be issued without the consultation of the Minister concerned and the Director of Customs could in that case issue a business licence. 47. The Hon. Barak T. SOPE, Member for Efate, noticed that this Section was drafted in a way that following the Foreign Investment Act, the director of Customs was also a Member of the Board.
15 48. The Jean Alain MAHE, Member for Santo, asked the Minister of Finance to confirm if the business licence fees of activities that took place in the rural areas would all go to the Provinces.
49. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, confirmed that every fee would go to the Provinces.
50. The Hon. Jean Alain MAHE, Member for Santo, said that in this case the licence fees of logging carried out in the rural areas would also go to the Provinces.
51. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finances, said that they should refer to the Logging Act.
52. Section 7 was approved on division.
Section 8, “Issue Of Business Licence - Business Not Listed In Section 13”
53. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that a comma should be added after the word “person” and another comma after the word “for Investment" and the words “/dr a business" be deleted in line (a) paragraph (2) of Section 8 of the English text.
54. Section 8 was approved on division.
55. Section 9, “Renewal Of Business Licence”, was approved on division.
Section 10, “Transfer Of Business Licence”
56. The Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that the word “the provincial' in paragraph (2) of Section 2 in the English text should be deleted and substituted by the words “ a local'.
57. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, queried as to which provisions of the present law would deal with the case of a company, which was bankrupted and transferred its licence to another company.
58. The Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that he did not quite get the question raised by MP JIMMY but hoped that paragraph (4) of Section 10 clearly stated the case raised by the MP for Port Vila.
59. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, queried as to what was the difference between the Director and the Provincial Council because he felt that the Director was a Civil Servant and the Provincial Council was an
16 authority. He added that the Government set a local authority as a Government employee.
60. Section 10 was approved on division.
Section 11 ‘"Reasons For Decision”
61. The Hon. Henri TAG A, Member for Port Vila, queried as to why an authority as a Provincial Council must justify every time his refusal to issue a business licence.
62. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, responded that the reasons was transparency and that the person concerned could also appeal to the Minister concerned and to the court.
63. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, said that he did not have a copy Section 11 of the Bill.
64. The sitting was suspended at 3.20 p.m and resumed at 4.05 p.m.
65. Section 11 was approved on division.
Section 12. "Appeal”
66. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, made an amendment in Section 12 (4), line 2 of the English text.
67. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, asked how one would go about make an appeal against the Director General or Local Government decision.
68. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, replied that the appeal would proceed directly to the court.
69. Section 12 was approved on division.
17 Section 13, “Minister To Approve Or Refuse Applications In Certain Cases”
70. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, remarked to the concern regarding the list of businesses, that it did not make much difference because it was part of a provision in the former laws that had been transferred to the new law. He said that maybe in the future, there would be no need to refer back to the Minister.
71. The Hon. Paul B. TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, asked if Provinces could approve some licences and then inform the Minister. He considered that there should be equal saying in the Provinces instead of centralizing all decisions in one particular area only.
72. The Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, asked if Provinces could collect the revenue from licences and others.
73. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, replied that Section 20 stated that each Province collected all the revenue for the businesses conducted in the rural areas. As for exploitation of natural resources, it required technical assessments.
74. The Hon. Esmon SAIMON, Member for Malekula, wanted to know that the revenue collected from ammunition went to the Central Government.
75. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, pointed out that there was no business licence granted for firearms paid under a different law.
76. Section 13 was approved on division.
77. Section 14, “Licence To Be Displayed”, was approved on division.
78. Section 15, “Licences Lost Or Destroyed”, was approved on division.
79. Section 16, “Power Of Search”, was approved on division.
80. Section 17, “Confidentiality Of Information”, was approved on division.
Section 18, “Fees”
81. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, commented that there was no reduction for the fees for licences which Ni-Vanuatu were involved in. He pointed out that the Business Licence Act (BLA) should be read along with the F.I.I., which outlined various business and their fees. He went on to point out a lot of errors in Schedule 1, which had not been checked by Attorney
18 General’s Office. He considered that the former Law was more transparent than the current, which only stated two figures. VT 20,000 and VT 90,000. He disagreed that one licence would cost VT 20,000 or VT 90,000. Only major and retail businesses paid a lower fee. This was mockery and unfair to Ni- Vanuatu. He did not believe that the Government would lose 12.55 out of V.A.T. He then went on to point out the spelling errors in Schedule 1.
82. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that he would go through the errors and make the necessary corrections in the English text.
83. The Hon. Barak T.SOPE, Member for Efate, pointed out that in some of the copies, the printing errors stated by Minister MOLISA did not need correcting
84. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, suggested it would be better to photocopy the correct text than to waste time going through the text.
85. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, preferred to go through the text.
86. The Hon. Speaker allowed Hon. Minister MOLISA to go through the corrections.
87. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that since there was a high competition for kava bars, the licence was increased to VT 20,000 however this could be amended.
88. The sitting was adjourned at 5.00 p.m.
19 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
THIRD EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF 1998
WEDNESDAY 5TH AUGUST 1998
SPEAKER : The Hon. Nipake E. NATPAE1, Member for Port Vila.
PRESENT : 38 Members
LATE : The Hon, John Robert ALICK, Member for Tongoa The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Esmon SAIMON, Member for Malekula The Hon. Silas HAKWA, Member for Ambae The Hon. Jimmy IMBERT, Member for Santo The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Sato KILMAN, Member for Malekula The Hon. Walter H. LINI, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Kila LEMAYA, Member for Epi. The Hon. Posen WILLY, Member for Tanna The Hon. Serge VOHOR R1ALUTH, Member for Santo The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jacob THYNA, Member for Malekula The Hon. Georges Andre WELLS, Member for Luganville
1. The sitting commenced at 2 J 5 pm.
2. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, said the prayer.
3. The Hon. Speaker read the Agenda.
20 BILL FOR THE BUSINESS LICENCE ACT NO. OF 1998
COMMITEE STAGE
Section 18, “Fees” (Continue)
4. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, asked whether there were any further amendments to make to the French text. He pointed out another amendment that Section 1 of Schedule 1 to be amended to be $18 and to substitute Section 2 of Schedule 2.
5. The Hon, Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae, pointed out some corrections in the French text in Annex 1 B and D.
6. Section 18 with the corrections was approved on division.
Section 19 “General Provisions”
7. The Hon. Willy POSEN, Member for Tanna, read out the French text and said that in the islands one person would have both a retail and wholesale shop under one roof. He questioned how many licences should he hold.
8. The Hon. Minister of Finance answered that he required 2 different licences however if it were a small business going on under 1 roof then there was no need.
9. Section 19 was approved on division.
Section 20 “Revenue From Fees”
10. Hon. Irenee BONGNAIM, Member for Ambrym, asked whether airlines or Banks that had branches in Provinces needed to pay licences to the Provinces.
11. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, pointed out two corrections in Section 20 (1); omitting the words “the” and substituting “a”, Section 20 (2); omitting words “Central Government Revenue” and substituting “Public”. Regarding the query-' they must pay licences to the Provinces or Local Government.
12. The Hon. Serge VOHOR RIALUTH, Member for Santo, Leader of the Opposition, said that there were some companies operating in different Provinces (e.g. Logging). He asked how they would go about obtaining a licence.
13. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finances, answered that logging companies that had processing equipment should pay licences to the Central Government
21 and in the islands; they would pay to the Local Government however, if in the islands, timber is cut on another island then they must pay to that area.
14. Section 20 was approved on division.
15. Section 21, “Abatement Of Fees”, was approved on division.
16. Section 22, “Reduction Of Fees”, was approved on division.
17. Section 23, “Penalties”, was approved on division.
Section 24, “Cancellation Of Licence”
18. The Hon. Esmon SAIMON, Member for Malekula, raised his concern on the part that includes “payment of tax, VAT on custom and excise duty”. He saw the danger for Ni-Vanuatu that they would pay more to the Province and as a result a lot of Ni-Vanuatu will cancel business licence next year. He wanted the Minister to clarify.
19. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, was pleased with the comment raised and replied that a person must be convicted in court first (not paying tax is an offence) before the Minister can remove his licence. It is not mandatory - there is flexibility in the law.
20. Section 24 was approved on division.
Section 25, “Rules”
21. The Hon. Barak T. SOPE, Member for Efate, referred this Section to Schedule 2.2 of the list of items produced in Vanuatu. He said Section 25 set up rules that can go with exempted licences e.g.. kava because it is exported. In his opinion, VCMB dictates the prices and can sell off to another country at a cheaper price.
22. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, answered that the Minister makes rules, which must be consistent with the law. There was no longer a need for export licences because it was exempted. VCMB Act states any prescribed commodity must go through VCMB and has its own price and Ni- Vanuatu buyers and exporters are not controlled by VCMB. Exporters obtain permit from VCMB and can set up any price in the market without VCMB control.
22 23. The Hon. Serge VOHOR RIALLJTH, Leader of the Opposition, pointed out a part in Schedule 2.2 that the French text did not have last part of Schedule 2.
24. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, stated the reason why he had been confused because the French text had excluded the last part. The Hon. Member for Pentecost said that VCMB was asking 5% commission for the price of kava sold from sellers, He noted that growers must pay more to VCMB therefore competition was hard with a grower and a common seller. He recommended that the Government should reconsider VCMB policy on kava. He also wanted to know if VCMB would continue to impose high fees.
25. The Hon. James BULE, Minister of Trades and Commerce, suggested it would be proper to make a statement covering the issue of kava.
26. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, requested the Hon. Speaker to redirect the House to Section 25 following Standing Order as the debate was totally outside the Bill.
27. The Hon. James BULE, Minister of Trades and Commerce, said he would give a statement regarding issue on kava.
28. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, said the Minister must comply with Section 25 to make rules to rectify the situation.
29. Section 25 was approved on division.
30. Section 26, “Repeals”, was approved on division.
Section 27, “Commencement”
31. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, pointed out that the business licence commencement date be amended to read “the Act shall be deemed to have come into force on the 1st August 1998”.
32. Section 27 was approved on division.
SECOND READING
33. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, moved that the Bill be read the second time and do pass.
34. The Hon. Allen NAFUKI, Member for Other Southern Islands moved that Parliament move back to Committee Stage to amend the correction in Schedule 2.2.
23 35. The Hon. Paul Ren TAR1, Member for Maewo, seconded the motion.
36. The motion was approved unanimously.
37. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, announced that there were some corrections to be made at Schedule 2.
38. The Clerk read out Schedule 2 as amended.
39. Section 2 with the corrections related to schedule 1 was approved on division..
40. The motion that the Bill be read the second time and do pass was carried by 29 votes in favour and 17 abstentions.
41. The sitting was suspended at 3.35 p.m and resumed at 4.10 p.m.
42. The Hon. Leader of Government Business, Paul Ren TAR1, announced the next Bill to be debated.
BILL FOR THE GOVERNMENT REMUNERATION TRIBUNAL ACT N. OF 1998.
FIRST READING
43. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, tabled the Bill and moved that it be read a first time.
44. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, supported the principle of the Bill as it was the first time that this kind of law was presented in Parliament and had to be passed because there were many different salary levels and it was important for such board to revise and regularise the salaries of civil servants and directors of statutory bodies who were supposed to receive the same salaries as the Heads of Department.
45. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, said that the Bill was correct but he was a bit worried by fear that this board would be in conflict with the Public Service Commission for the salaries and allowances of civil servants, which were fixed by the Public Service Commission. He queried if this law would also be applied to statutory bodies and how would its powers prevail upon the decision of the board of a statutory body.
46. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, explained that the new Public Service Act, which had just been passed, defined the salaries of civil servants but this board would work in collaboration with the Public Service Commission for the compiling of a new staff manual and to establish new
24 salary scales. He added that the law on the Government remuneration tribunal was consistent with the new Public Service Act, which had just been passed.
47. The Hon. Joe CARLO, Member for Efate, supported the principle of the Bill because he felt that the Bill should have already been passed some years ago. He hoped that this board would take into account the qualifications and experiences of each civil servants and added that the law was good but once again we had forgotten the representative of workers. The MP of Efate hoped that the Members of this board would only receive sitting allowance and not a monthly salary.0
48. The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae, felt that this law arrived the appropriate time because at this time salaries were fixed according to the past experience and not according to the qualifications. He added that this board should properly consider the certificates issued locally and overseas and the reports presented by each head of department concerning its staff He reminded at the same time that there was a problem of comparison and the equivalence of diploma obtained n French and English Schools. He concluded that the Members of this board should be competent in every area.
49. The Hon. Prime Minister said that this board was a tribunal and nearly had the same competence as a court and that the Members may ask for information to have different views of each one on the actual salary scales. He added that the board could also have its permanent staff and required its budget to be approved by Parliament.
50. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Efate, felt that this board should be named with a more appropriate word and added that the Members should be qualified people and capable to revise salaries and know different institutions in the country. He added that the word revise could mean the increase of salaries and as well as the reduction of salaries and hoped that this board would take into account the cost of living and different taxes, which were applied, and to increase the salaries of civil servants. He recommended general increase of statutory bodies and wanted to see how this Tribunal would function. He recommended at the same time the increase of minimum wage.
51. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, felt that this Bill should already been passed during the past years. He said that to have or benefit from good services, there should be better salaries to those who carried out services and that were the purpose of the Bill. He added that the Government must also take into account the responsibilities given to each servant.
52. The sitting was adjourned at 5.00 p.m.
25 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
THIRD EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
THURSDAY 6lh AUGUST 1998
SPEAKER : The Hon. Nipake. E. NATAPEI, Member for Port Vila.
PRESENT : 38 Members
ABSENT : The Hon. Josiah Tom MERIFAR, Member for Malekula.
LATE : The Hon. John Robert ALICK, Member for Tongoa The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Jimmy EMBERT, Member for Port Vila. The Hon. Walter H LINI, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Josias MOLI, Member for Malo. The Hon. Serge VOHOR R1ALUTH, Member for Santo. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate. The Hon. Jonas K. TABI, Member for Pentecost. The Hon. Paul B. TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jacob THYNA, Member for Malekula The Hon. Annas, TIN WAKO, Member for Luganvil le The Hon. Jackleen. R. TITEKS, Member for Malekula.
1. The sitting commenced at 8.40 a.m.
2. The Hon. Albert RAVUTIA, Member for Santo, said the prayer.
3. The Hon. Speaker read the Agenda.
26 BILL FOR THE GOVERNMENT REMUNERATION TRIBUNAL ACT NO. OF 1998
4. The Hon. Rakom FOSTER, Member for Efate, supported the Bill and said it was the first time for the introduction of the Bill and that it was timely. His concern lay on the 3 people to be appointed to the board that they should be neutral. Past Governments had been misled. This Bill would bring about transparency, which would please the nation. He said that minimum wage board should be the Government’s concern because 8% of the population were grassroots; their wages should be considered.
5. The Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, supported the Bill and thanked the Government because it would bring about changes of salaries of workers. He saw that qualified people were not able to carry out their duties properly due to low salaries offered. He said it was good to categorize workers according to qualifications. There must be a board to look at the different qualification because to achieve that level, a lot of years were taken. The Bill should be a warning that the Tribunal should not appoint according to appearances or family ties but on merit.
6. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, in his opinion, the Bill should be considered in many different ways such as knowledge, experience and qualification. The Bill came because of Reform where The Government pay people to provide efficient services, which is also the main criteria for appointment. People would become aware that Reform is taking place with the different changes occurring. He considered that Private Sectors’ salary should also be taken into account in the near future. The 3 people into the board as already noted were from the Chamber of Commerce, the Public Service Commission and the Prime Minister’s Office. He questioned the salary increase was for what purpose; to provide fast service.
7. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was carried by 28 votes in favour and 16 abstentions.
8. Section 1 was approved on division.
9. Section 2,“Object”, was approved on division.
10. Section 3,“Interpretation”, was approved on division.
11. Section 4, “Application”, was approved on division.
27 Section 5, “Establishment Of The Government Remuneration Tribunal”
12. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, repeated the statement made by Prime Minister that MPs were not included in the Bill. He considered that the interpretation of the Bill was unclear.
13. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, confirmed that the Bill covered only people who worked in the Public Sector including Statutory Bodies. MPs had the Privilege Committee to look into their needs and salaries.
14. Section 5 was approved on division.
Section 6 “Membership Of Tribunal”
15. The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae, claimed that some teachers were under PSC and others under TSC therefore it would be difficult to choose their salary.
16. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, clarified that the membership was for only 3 people who were specialized in the areas; Police Commission, Teachers Service Commission, Public Service Commission would bring in all their salary scales and from there they would work out the exact salary scale where the worker should be place.
17. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, stated that Statutory Bodies such as Air Vanuatu, there was a Board of Directors, which made appointments; this Bill would now cause a conflict between them and the Tribunal regarding salary scales.
18. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, answered that Board of Directors of Statutory Bodies did set up salary scales. The Tribunal looked into the salary of the Director of the Board therefore it must agree to the proposals made to the Secretary on the salaries of the Members of the board.
19. The Hon. Joe Bomal CARLO, Member for Efate, said that there was no workers’ representation in the Board. He claimed that the Chamber of Commerce did not represent workers; it should be the Trade Union. Chamber of Commerce that looked into the affairs of businesses such as that of. marketing of local products both locally and overseas. He questioned that there should be more Members instead of 2 to form a quorum.
20. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said Tribunal should be looked at as a magistrate or higher court. The decision would not be imposed immediately instead it would be up to the submitting body to look into the salaries of their workers. He clarified that the person appointed from Chamber of Commerce need
28 not be a Member of C.C it could be someone who had good knowledge of private management and issues.
21. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, states that despite clear answer from the Government, the Tribunal still remained the same. The Tribunal looked into the affairs of workers. He proposed that addition to the Tribunal included a Member of the Trade Union (1 from the Judicial Service Commission).
22. The Hon. Serge VOHOR RIALUTH, Member for Santo and Leader of the Opposition, seconded the motion because it was important. The Tribunal looked into the affairs of workers so it was necessary to have representation from worker also the coordinator of CRP had also confirmed that there was a need to have representation of workers in any Board established by the Government following CRP.
23. The Hon. Walter H LINI, Minister of Internal Affairs, objected the motion because the Tribunal should consist of only employers and not workers. The Trade Union Member would have difficulty in relaying the points raised as it’s meeting with this colleagues in the Union.
24. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, pointed out that the Tribunal was not at dispute. It is there to decide salary levels payable to workers. He pointed out that Section 15 of the Bill stated the procedure carried out by the Tribunal and the Trade Union would have no place to bargain. He explained that the Tribunal summoned people as did a Court, but it did not impose sanctions.
25. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, added that under Labour Laws there existed a Trade Dispute Act where Unions could bargain with employers regarding issues such as salaries. At the Task Force Meeting, he had made a response on the representation of workers in relation to VNPF only.
26. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, considered that the Government had taken wrong turn on the Tribunal. He said that workers’ representation was there before a dispute arose. He considered that the Government was making workers to take a long turn into a certain issue. He said that this was necessary to bring about transparency and Trade Union views were to be aired in the first place.
27. The motion to amend Section 6 was defeated by 26 votes against, 18 votes for and 4 abstentions.
28. Section 6 was approved on division.
29 Section 7, “Term Of Office”
29. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, felt that the members of this board should be permanent and not appointed on contract or part-time.
30. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, reminded that Section 8 was about the appointment of the board member and it was already passed.
31. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, asked as to why the board members would be paid a monthly salary.
32. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that he would respond to this question on reaching Section 11 of the Bill.
33. The Hon. Serge VOHOR RIALUTH, Member for Santo and Leader of the Opposition, said that the Prime Minister’s answer was contrary to the provisions of the Public Service Act and asked if there would be no conflict between the board and the Public Service Commission.
34. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, queried as to how many members of this board would be part-time appointees and why.
35. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, responded that there were three members of the board following Section 6 and it would be possible that one of these three Members be a part-time appointee.
36. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, asked as to what would happen if the part-time appointee were a civil servant.
37. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that it was preferable that the three Members could be permanently appointed and also wished that three Members be appointed permanently.
38. The Hon. Josias MOLI, Member for Malo, felt that the members of the board should know the structure of The Government’s institution and not appoint someone with no notion of the running of the Government.
39. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that there were two possibilities and the first one was that the Government could appoint a civil servant and the said civil servant must vacate his post and that the second possibility was the Government could also appoint someone from private sector to occupy this post.
40. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, said that there would be some conflict on remuneration or salaries that was why he felt that it would be preferable to appoint the members at full time.
30 41. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that there was no member on a part-time but it was possible that a member could be appointed on a part-time as he could be appointed on a full time basis.
42. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, said that he was always confused and that following sub-section (3) of Section 7, the three members could be appointed on full-time.
43. The Hon. Walter H LINI, Minister of Internal Affairs, said that the members would only create confusion and asked if the sitting could be better suspended to seek legal advice.
44. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, supported the comments made by Hon. Walter H LINI.
45. The sitting was suspended at 10.30 a.m and resumed at 11.00 a.m.
46. Section 7 was approved on division.
Section 8, “Extraordinary Vacancies”
47. The Hon. Jackleen R TITEKS, Member for Malekula, referred to subsection (1) of Section 8 enquired as to which president was mentioned.
48. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, responded that it was the President of the Republic.
49. Section 8 was approved on division.
Section 9 “Meeting”
50. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, said that the provisions of sub section (6) of Section 9 banned every idea to sue, oppose or appeal to court against the Tribunal’s decision.
51. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, stated that Section 9 meant that no question could be asked to the board during their meetings.
52. Section 9 was approved on division.
31 Section 10, “Members And Officers To Maintain Secrecy”
53. The Hon. Amos TITONGOA, Member for Emae, felt that the members of the board should be confident people who were supposed to keep secrets and not disclose them.
54. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, asked if the Government already had an idea as to how many staff was to be recruited again by the board.
55. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that the members would be fully occupied at the beginning especially with the Investigations and discussions made with the people concerned but the board had already recruited a Secretary-Typist and a Minute-taker.
56. Section 10 was approved on division.
57. Section 11, “Remuneration And Allowances”, was approved on division.
58. Section 12, “Staff Of Tribunal”, was approved on division.
Section 13. “Functions Of The Tribunal”
59. The Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, question as to which category of people were referred to in line (1) paragraph (4) of Section 13 and queried at the same time if it was the word “Local Government Council” or “Provincial Government” to be used in line (iv) of Section 13 of the English text.
60. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, responded that line (1) paragraph (1) of Section 13 was about the Officials of the Government who were under CAP 168 and added that the words “Local Government Council” was correct and not “Provincial Government”
61. The Hon. Henri TAGA, Member for Port Vila, questioned if it was right that CAP 168 covered the remuneration of the Officials of the Government.
62. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, confirmed that CAP 168 covered the remuneration of the officials of the Government.
63. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, referred to line (b) sub-section (1) of Section 13 and queried as to which provisions of this text covered the Director Generals and the Directors of Statutory Bodies.
64. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that he was not sure that CAP 168 also covered the Director-General but the Acts of each respective Statutory Body covered the Directors of Statutory Bodies.
32 65. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, questioned if the Lord Mayors and the Presidents of Provincial Councils could also be included with the people mentioned in lines (i) to (viii). He asked as to why the Lord Mayors and the Provincial Presidents were not included with the people in lines (i) to (vii)
66. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, responded that the remuneration of the Lord Mayors and the Provincial Presidents were under specific laws of local authorities and that was why they were not in this present law.
67. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, felt that Section 13 was very confusing because it did not precise as to how the Members of this board could decide at a place of a Government Statutory Body if the Statutory Bodies Act was not amended.
68. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that the board must make sure that its decisions should only be contrary and not affecting the decisions of the Government statutory bodies.
69. The sitting was suspended at 11.35 a.m and resumed at 2.10 p.m.
Section 13, ‘'Functions Of The Tribunal’’
70. The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae, stated that some phrases in the French text in Section 13 1 (d) were incorrect.
71. The Hon. Speaker after consultation with the Clerk stated that French text was correct.
72. The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae, considered that the term “determination” in the definition was incorrectly used and that a verb was missing in 13.1 (e).
73. The Hon. Speaker confirmed the error.
74. The Clerk read out correct version of the French text in 13.1 (e).
75. The Hon. Joe CARLO, Member for Efate, said he did not see where the Tribunals or executive positions were stated. He said these institutions formulated the salary scales following the manual of each of these institutions. If the law did not set up these salary scales, then these institutions were able to set up by law and then were able to set up the salary scales. Some figures were over because these salaries were paid from public money but Board of Directors set their own salaries despite law laying down their salaries. He said that all salaries must be brought to the same level.
33 76. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that salaries cannot be reduced as seen in Section 20 and Section 24 “Act to prevail” gives the right to make fair distributions to the salaries.
77. The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, repeated the question that had been raised by MP Willie JIMMY regarding 13.1 (I) (CAP. 168).
78. The Hon. Speaker pointed out in French text that it referred to Article 11 of the Constitution.
79. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, with reference made to Section 20 and Section 24 that they concerned Board of Directors and not Managers. The Tribunal did not cover them. He said that Directors of Statutory Bodies had much higher salaries than even Ministers.
80. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that the interpretation of an employee of the Public Sector and Private Sector comprised of people which were included from 13 a (i) - (iv).
81. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, regarding the definition of “Public Sector”, questioned who employed workers in statutory bodies such as VNPF.
82. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, answered that Board of Directors employed workers but were under the Government Statutory Bodies classified in Section 13 i.a.i-vi.
83. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, said that according to Company Act, The Government owned the Company; employees were under the Government. There were also such companies such as TVL and Unelco who were partly owned; the Tribunal would establish their salary scales.
84. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that Section 18 covered employees of Companies, which were partly owned by the Government.
85. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, stressed that Board of Directors determine workers salaries as under Company’s Act.
86. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said in regards to where companies partly owned by the Government, it would not deal much with it’s salaries but must follow the Company Act unlike companies fully owned by the Government where there is an established salary scale. 87. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, said under Company Law, the employers are the Board of Directors. The Government cannot go inside to decide upon the salary of its workers.
34 88. Section 13 was approved on division.
89. Section 14, ‘Implementation Of Determinations Of Tribunal”, was approved on division.
90. Section 15, “Release Of Determinations”, was approved on division.
Section 16, “Criteria For Tribunal”
91. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, asked that because the appointments to the Tribunal was made by 3 different bodies, was there a contract to sign regarding the 3 year term.
92. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, replied that under Section 6 (1) it was up to the Minister to make appointment and term of contract.
93. Section 16 was approved on division.
94. Section 17, “Frequency Of Adjustments”, was approved on division.
95. Section 18, “Determinations Of Persons Subject To This Act”, was approved on division.
96. Section 19, “Submissions To Tribunal”, was approved on division.
97. Section 20, “Application Of Minimum Remuneration Levels”, was approved on division.
98. Section 21, “Powers Of Tribunal”, was approved on division.
99. Section 22, “Annual Report”, was approved on division.
100. Section 23, “Appropriation Required For Purposes Of This Act”, was approved on division.
101. Section 24, “Act To Prevail”, was approved on division.
35 Section 25 ‘"Determinations Of Tribunal To Prevail Over Contracts Of Service In Case Of Conflict”
102. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, said that this Section mentioned the point raised by the Opposition regarding the contract signed by mentioned by an employee and a company and has been receiving a salary determined by the board but then the Tribunal established another salary, there would be a conflict. There is no law to cover how the Tribunal or the Government will recover the payment paid out to the employee in the past. He queried whether the employee could be used.
103. The Hon. Donald KALPOKA, Prime Minister, replied that Tribunal cases must submitted by employers. The current law states that the employing agency must take into consideration as to their decisions and in the end it is that contract which prevails. Compensation is a different matter, which the Tribunal needs to see with the employing agency.
104. Section 25 was approved on division.
105. Section 26, ‘ Consultation With Tribunal”, was approved on division.
Section 27 “Offences”
106. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, said that the Section was too harsh and if Parliament is not carefully, many people would not like to work in the Public Section because if a person disagreed with the salary imposed by the Tribunal, he would commit an offence. The law had its good side but in Vanuatu, a lot of qualified Ni-Vanuatu would not wish to work in the Public Sector because of this particular section.
107. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, commented that the purpose of this section was to make it stricter because of the differences of the salary scales. All workers in the Public Sector must have a uniform salary. If a person who wished to have a much higher salary, would be breaking the law. Section 16 makes it fair because the Private Sector Salary Scale is also taken into account. There would be another Bill to be tabled in the future to outline how someone with a higher qualification could be appointed into statutory bodies. Vanuatu has lost a couple of qualified persons who have now gone overseas to work so with this section it would make it compatible with the Private Salary Scales. It is hoped that the problem with the nurses, polices, marine, and teachers salary would now be solved.
108. Section 27 was approved on division.
109. Section 28, “Punishment”, was approved on division.
36 Section 29 “Recovery Of Over Payment”
110. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, pointed out that there was 2 Section 29.
111. The Hon. Speaker announced that Section 29 on Page 11 should be deleted and the Prime Minister, Donald KALPOKAS, confirmed it to be so.
112. Section 29 was approved on division.
113. Section 30, “Savings And Validation”, was approved on division.
114. Section 31, “Commencement”, was approved on division.
SECOND READING
115. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, moved that the Bill be read the second time and do pass.
116. The motion was carried with31 votes in favour and 15 abstentions.
117. The sitting was suspended at 3.30 p.m and resumed at 4.00 p.m.
BILL FOR THE CIVIL AVIATION CORPORATION ACT NO. OF 1998
FIRST READING
118. The Hon. Stanley REGINALD, Minister of Civil Aviation, tabled the Bill and moved that it be read a first time.
119. The Hon. Joe Bomal CARLO, Member for Efate, supported the principle of the Bill because it matched the development done in the countries of the region in the field of Civil Aviation and it would improve the levels and standard of Airports in Vanuatu and at the same time meet the International Standard.
120. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, supported the principle of the Bill, which would allow a Corporation to be established, and managed the International Airports of Vanuatu. He added that the members of the board of this Corporation should be really competent people in the field of Civil Aviation Industry and we should also have Port of Entries and airport facilities as of International standards to attract more tourists into the country. 121. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, felt that it was the Chairman of the NTO Board to also be the Chairman of the Board of Corporation. He added that almost in every Bill we had passed during the three sessions there were board and
37 everyone had fifteen new posts and supplementary staff. He felt that, that was contrary to the CRP, which recommended the reduction of the Government’s expenses. The MP queried if the Government would give some funds to constitute the capital of this Corporation.
122. The Hon. Stanley REGINALD, Minister of Civil Aviation, said that the creation of this Corporation would lighten the works of the Civil Aviation Department and that this Corporation would find its capital.
123. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, stated that the creation of this Corporation was an initiative to allow certain Government departments to be privatised and that was the general policy of the present Government, which was correct in this case for this Corporation to be independent and operate as a private company. He added that we must insure that this Corporation should function in a profitable way and mentioned the case of the NTO and the Chamber of Commerce, which were privatized but still, benefited from Government grants today. The MP continued to say that the creation of this Corporation was done in a situation where the Corporation would depend on its Commercial activities an we should also assure the number of air-crafts and the numbers of passengers landing in Vanuatu be increased at the same time that was why it was necessaiy to upgrade our airports and increase the capacity to receive air-crafts as the B.747. He concluded to say that if our airports could not receive big aircrafts that would minimize the chances of more tourists coming into the country.
124. The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Prime Minister, said that there were many airports but they were not benefiting directly from the activities which were taking place and that this time the airports should under this Corporation, which should make more money from different commercial activities operating in these airports. Concerning the upgrading of the aiiports, the Prime Minister said that only the up grading of the Pekoa Airport was in process while for the Bauerfield work would be started soon.
125. The Hon. Joe NATUMAN, Minister of Education, said that three the Government Department should be privatized and this Bill had followed the idea. He added that the Civil Aviation Department would have only a limited number of staff.
126. The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, felt that the idea of privatization was a good idea, which would favour more creation of jobs and added that if there were more jobs then more people would work.
127. The Hon. Maxime CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, thanked the Government for having the initiative to table this Bill and supported the principle of the Bill because it governed a field of activity, which could generate more revenue for the Government and queried if the Government could also see, for the interest of the nation our international ports.
38 ] 28. The Hon. Paul. B. TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, said that this Bill was for our chance or solution to well manage our airports.
129. The sitting adjourned at 5.00 p.m.
39 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
THIRD EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF 1998
FRIDAY 7™ AUGUST 1998
SPEAKER : The Hon. Nipake E. NATAPEI, Member for Port Vila
PRESENT : 35 Members
LATE : The Hon. Joe B CALO, Member for Efate The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Maxim. CARLOT, Member for Port Vila The Esmon SAJMON, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jimmy 1MBERT, Member for Santo The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Member for Efate The Hon. Jean Alain MAHE, Member for Santo The Hon. Josias MOL1, Member for Malo The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna The Hon. Serge VOHOR, Member for Santo The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate The Hon. Barnabas TAB I, Member for Pentecost. The Hon. Jonas K TABI, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Jacob THYNA, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jackleen R TITEK, Member for Malekula The Hon. George A WELLS, Member for Luganville
1. The sitting commenced at 8.45 a.m.
2. The Hon. John Tari MOLIBARAF, Member for Santo said the prayer.
3. The Hon. Speaker read the agenda.
40 BILL FOR THE ( IX IL AVIATION CORPORATION ACT NO. OF 1998.
4. The Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, said that under CRP, Civil Aviation Corporation should be privatized. In his opinion it would be similar to NHC because of its laws. A true identity would have its own shares and capital but Civil Aviation has none of these. Civil Aviation Corporation has its board, which allows monopoly of its airports but CRP discouraged this. He raised the issue regarding the Boeing 737 airports in Santo and Vila of which AUSAID, the main donor, had disallowed another company to build a 747 airport under that contract. In regards to the appointment to the Board, the Minister could appoint on political grounds. Financial Association (F.A) Ltd, in his opinion, was undemocratic and the representative from Finance was also not proper because he was also a Public Servant.
5. The Hon. Clement LEO, Assistant Minister of Foreign Affairs, said that the Bill was clear and consistent with CRP. There was no monopoly, only effectiveness of its services and it was clear that it was the Minister’s discretion to appoint either inside the Government or outside.
6. The Hon. Serge VOHOR, Member for Santo and Leader of Opposition, wanted to contribute to the Bill and was pleased with the introduction of the Bill. The Bill outlined the key areas to the extension of airports. Financial situations have brought in funds from the Vanuatu Government, AUSAID and C.F.T so the reason for the Cooperate Company was to administer the constructions of the airports and to manage the funds towards the project. Vanuatu is still labelled as LDC but it is hoped that by year 2000 it would became a DC then there would be no need to loan from another country to implement projects on airports. He believed that after completion of the extensions of the 737 airports, a private company could come in to look into the construction of 747 airports in the near future.
7. The Hon. Rakom FOSTER, Member for Efate, supported the Bill in that it would provide employment but he was concern with the upgrading of Pekoa and Bauerfield Airports. He asks if there were any talks about another new airport to be constructed. He wanted the Minister to state what was the guarantee for Mele Village area in case of an accident.
8. The Hon. Minister of Civil Aviation replied that the Government would be held responsible for any mishaps resulting from airport.
9. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was carried with 28 votes in favour and 15 abstentions.
10. Section 1, '‘Purpose”, was approved on division.
11. Section 2, “Interpretation”, was approved on division.
41 Section 3, "Civil Aviation Corporation”
12. The Hon. Stanley REGINALD, Minister of Civil Aviation, inserted in 3.3 (d) the word “cerc/re” between the terms, '‘‘Financial Association” to read "Financial Centre Association ltd”.
13. The Hon. Josiah MOLI, Member for Malo said that there was no Section of the Bill, which stated that, the procedure to appoint members to the Board.
14. The Hon. Minister of Civil Aviation said that it was covered in [CAP 191].
15. The Hon. Speaker pointed out that it was in 3.3 (c).
16. The Clerk read the French version of that Section.
17. The Hon. Irenee BONGNAIM, Member for Ambrym repeated the question raised by Hon. Paul. B TELUKLUK regarding Section 3.3 e.
18 The Hon. Minister of Civil Aviation said the Director General appointed someone from outside the Board.
19. The Hon. Paul. B. TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula questions why private associations were included in the Board.
20. The Hon. Minister of Civil Aviation replied that the private companies were registered in Vanuatu therefore were included in the Board to prevent discrimination.
21. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, on MP MOLI’s query, added that staff of Civil Aviation would now work under the Civil Aviation Corporation.
22. The Hon. Maxim CARLOT, Member for Port Vila would like the Ministers opinion on the inclusion of Air Vanuatu and Vanair, that were Government owned, to be part of the Board.
23. The Hon. Stanley REGINALD, Minister of Civil Aviation, clarified that the Member appointed by the Minister would represent the airlines in the Board.
24. The Hon. Joe NATUMAN, Minister of Education, added that industries with direct interests of airport would have conflict of interest therefore airlines cannot be included and there were Sections that dealt with the issue.
25. The Hon. Maxim. CARLOT, Member for Port Vila’s view was to combine the works of the airports both nationally and internationally so he saw it proper to include the Government airlines, Ministry of Finance, Air Vanuatu and Civil
42 Aviation and with such efforts, it would make the tourism economy grow. He supported strongly that Air Vanuatu should be included.
26. The Hon. Sela MOLJSA, Minister of Finance, supported Hon. CARLOT’s view but in Section 41 it would make it difficult for an airline to be included in the Board. He said that airlines were already involved through NTO, which was proper.
27. The Hon. James BULE, Minister of Trade and Commerce, said that the composition of the Board was all right. Regarding NTO, it main purpose was to make attraction in the tourism market as does airlines.
28. The Hon. Jacob THYNA, Member for Malekula, could not see the term of appointment of members. He queried as to why the DG of Finance could appoint a member and not the Minister.
29. The Hon. Maxim CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, saw the point whereby conflict of interests might arise. He said that at the moment, Air Vanuatu was not capable of managing the airport but saw the need for a highly qualified corporate must be appointed.
30. The Hon. Minister of Civil Aviation, on MP THYNA, said that the Bill did not actually state clearly but it could be found in Section 54.
31. The Hon. Jean Alain MAHE, Member for Santo, in Section 3.3 (e), asked if the representation would come from the Government.
32. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, answered that the person need not be from the Government; it would be from outside.
33. The Hon. Paul. B. TELUKLUK, Member for Malekula, felt that the Government should appoint a qualified person to be a Member of the Corporation’s Board.
34. The Minister of Civil Aviation assured MP TELUKLUK that the Government would appoint a person in the field of Civil Aviation to represent it at the Board of the Corporation.
35. The Hon. Irenee BONGNAIM, Member for Ambrym, questioned as to how the Chairman of the Board for this Corporation to be appointed.
36. The Minister for Civil Aviation said that the members of the board would elect their Chairman.
37. Section 3 was approved on division.
43 38. Section 4, 'Division Of Responsibilities Between Corporation And Department”, was approved on division.
39. Section 5, “Functions And Responsibilities Of The Corporation”, was approved on division.
40. Section 6, “Functions And Responsibilities Of Department”, was approved on division.
41. Section 7, “Regulations”, was approved on division.
42. Section 8, “Consequential Amendments”, w as approved on division.
43. Section 9, “Commencement”, was approved on division.
SECOND READING
44. The Hon. Minister of Civil Aviation, Stanley REGINALD, moved that the Bill be read a second time and do pass.
45. The motion that the Bill be read a second time and do pass was carried with 24 votes in favour and 12 abstentions.
46. The Hon. Speaker of Parliament announced that the sitting should be adjourned until Monday because some Members did not have the Copy of the next Bill to be debated.
47. The Hon. Barak. T. SOPE, Member for Efate, felt that Monday was too short because some Members had not received their Bills yet.
48. The Hon. Paul Ren TARI, Member for Maewo and Leader of The Government Business, said that the Bills were distributed on the 4111 August and hoped that the Opposition were making excuses to prolong the Session.
49. The Hon. Sato KILMAN, Member for Malekula felt that the comment of the Leader of The Government Business was insane and added that the Government should make sure that the Bills were distributed to the Members on the appropriate date.
50. The sitting was adjourned at 11.00 a.m.
44 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
THIRD EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF 1998
TUESDAY, 11™ AUGUST 1998
SPEAKER : The Hon. Nipake. E. NATAPEI, Member for Port Vila
PRESENT : 37 Members.
LATE : The Hon. Daniel BANGTOR, Member for Ambry m The Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost. The Hon. Maxim CARLOT, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Esmon SAEMON, Member for Malekula The Hon. Silas C HAKWA, Member for Ambae. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila The Hon. Sato KILMAN, Member for Malekula The Hon. Walter H LINI, Member for Pentecost The Hon. Philip PASVU, Member for Santo The Hon. Posen WILLY, Member for Tanna The Hon. Serge VOHOR, Member for Santo The Hon. Jacques SESE, Member for Ambae. The Hon. John TARI, Member for Santo The Hon. Paul B TELUKLUTC, Member for Malekula The Hon. Jacob THYNA, Member for Ambrym The Hon. George A WELLS, Member for Luganville.
1. The sitting commenced at 8.45 a.m.
2. The Hon. Heniy IOUKO, Member for Tanna, said the prayer.
3. The Hon. Speaker read the agenda.
45 BILL FOR THE ASSET MANAGEMENT UNIT ACT NO. OF 1998
FIRST READING
4. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, introduces the Bill, stated its purposes and moved that the Bill be read a first time.
5. The Hon. Barak T SOPE, Member for Efate, commented that the Bill did not follow Standing Order because MPs had received the Bill not within the period of 15 days as required by Standing Order. In relation to CRP, transparency and good governance, it did not look good. With this Bill, a lot of people were required to work in the Public Service and it did not follow the intention of CRP, which was for right sizing. It was alarming to hear the outstanding amounts in the different banking institutions. Regarding the Board, D-G’s were loaded with heavy responsibilities in almost all the boards set up which may cause a D-G such as for Finance, to attend more to meetings than to ensure efficiency of CRP policy. He noted that VCMB that it no longer looked at the needs of the sellers of local products instead it looked more into its survival II was on the same situations as the Banks. The AMU was established for only a 5-year term and as for the future, it was unknown. The reasons why loans could not be repaid were because people in the islands made a lot of loans.
6. The Hon. Walter. H. LINl, Minister of Internal Affairs, said that that Bill was part of the implementation of the CRP due to problems faced by financial institutions. It is well known that the Banking institutions were almost collapsing. However with loan from ADB, the AMU was established to receive bad loans and investments. Disappointment would still remain after 4 years because the Banks still had not made any profit. He claims that it is not possible to foresee the achievement of the AMU. Experts, in the past, were called in to see the Banks but instead the Banks faced financial problems. It was again under consideration to recruit experts to run the Banks however he feared that the problems would not be solved. He questioned as to whether it was true that the experts would be recruited to enable the Banks to make more money. The Government must consider carefully whether NBV and DVB could be merged together and to set up the AMU outside the two Banks. He urged all MP’s to debate on the issue, as it was these institutions, which were the backbone of Vanuatu’s economy. He noted that more money was put in to run the financial institutions instead of vice versa. He concluded by stating he supported the Bill.
7. The Hon. Maxim CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, supported the Bill in that it would clear the financial situations of Banks. The AMU, in his opinion, was duplication in the running of the airfares outside of the Bank. He questioned what the duty of the merging of the Banks was. If it were part of the reform, the Government should clarify. Banks disputes must be looked into only by the management and not by outsider. ADB should not become involved with the banking institutions. The Government Institutions must continue to have
46 interference even it were political. On the other hand if the political interference were unlawful then it could be regarded as political interference. He continued to question if the AMU would employ Ni-Vanuatu and not Advisors from ADB. If it were part of the condition in the loan then the Government should reject the loan. In regards to loans, the Banks allowed the loans and therefore people continue to repay the loans instead of having to set up a Board to look into the loans and call it bad loans.
8. The Hon. Serge VOHOR, Member for Santo and Leader of Opposition, felt that the principles of this Bill were based on a way the Government had managed the assets in the past. He added that the bad debts resulted from the loan obtained without the loan guarantee, relationship and political interference of the Government in the granting system of loan. He also said that to properly manage our assets or patrimony, the political leaders should not terminate the Chairman of Statutory bodies that were qualified people and not appropriate to be the heads of the bodies. He concluded that the Government should only appoint the local staff to the post of Director of Statutory bodies.
9. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, said that he appreciated the comments, which were made and added that the Bill was a solution or strategy to allow ending the fall of our statutory bodies and recovering the bad debts. But for the time being new funds should be injected, a good management and the problem was that qualified people were not recruited so that was why expatriates were to be recruited for only a period of two years. He concluded that the role of the Asset Management Unit was to recover the bad debt or recover every debt that was recovered.
10. The Hon. Speaker of Parliament reminded that each Speaker should only comment on the principle of the Bill and not stray from the subject.
11. The sitting was suspended at 10.40 a.m and resumed at 11.05 a.m.
12. The Hon. Sato KILMAN, Member for Malekula, said that these debts were under clauses of a contract that stated or required the restrain of assets in case of repayment and that there were some people within these bodies who should carry out the responsibilities or roles that the present law would attribute to the unit.
13. The Hon. Jimmy NICKLAM, Member for Tanna, said that the DBV and NBV had different roles and responsibilities while they would be merged without taking into account their different roles. He also said that the bad debts resulted from political interference and bad management in the administration of these two Banks, and that if the situation be improved then the Government must be aware of their roles before de-merging them. He added that the merging of these two Banks was only a short-term solution and not a long-term solution.
14. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m and resumed at 2.15p.m.
47 15. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, commented that he was interested in the Bill. He said that the Bill came about because of bad debts made by NBV, NDB, and NPF. He queried as to the cause of the bad loans, how new strategies would improve the bad loans policies. He queried that there were already views put to the management so how could the AMU solve the problem. The loan from Bank is continuous; people would continue to borrow from the Banks and also if loans from NDB could not be recovered after 10 years, how could AMU resolve the problem in 2 years. He said that he doubted that the work of the AMU. Such areas as the natural disaster, employment, bankrupt, liquidation of companies, contributed to the non-repayment of loans. Bad media coverage and poor markets, high rates of interests, low income undercapitalized businesses, knowledge, training and political pressure were also factors. Political interference was not the real reason why the AMU was established. He contempt the Bill and said that the ADB should provide money but not its own advisers to these institutions. In the case of VNPF, Ni-Vanuatu was able to loan for houses that expatriates were buying. He claimed the NB had not repaid its loans, as did Pourquoi Pacific. NHC was also operating with loan unpaid. He stated that the Minister for Finance had failed to include companies with bad debts. He said VNPF gave loans to more than 3000 Ni-Vanuatu with an amount of more than 1 Billion. He admitted that his property had already been taken by the AMU. He read out a report regarding the profit to be made by NDV in 1995. He said with the merging of the two Banks, it would destroy what NDB set up for. In regards to the vacancy notice for the AMU Board, it was unlawful because the Bill had not yet been passed. He disagreed with the policy of selling off houses to expats instead of Ni-Vanuatu. He claimed that some MPs had big interest with the ADB and had not declared it. He stressed that the Bill should be restudied and urged MPs to talk more on the issue.
16. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, on NDB, said that it should not be closed because the loans were of normal nature. He explained that bad loans destroy banks because if they remained it would not help the running of the bank. It was not the intention of defamation that the Bill came about, instead it came to help sort out the economy problem of the country. The Government had paid a large amount of money to VNPF. The problem of the debts must be addressed now and not later. With the lending policy, NDB had allowed a lot of Ni-Vanuatu to benefit from it. Agriculture lending had problems because it did not have registered titles, thus it was difficult to lend to rural areas. With the new bank, long term lending may be considered, however Vanuatu could not sustain such borrowing. Regarding the duplication of AMU, he confirmed that it was so expected that the bad loans could be recovered within 2-5 years. The CEO vacancy notice had been put with the hope that after the Bill was passed; the Board would proceed with the recruitment. He pointed out that there was no hidden agenda behind the Bill and claimed that a lot of the borrowers were Government employees who had failed to make repayments. The banks had failed to carry out certain policies effectively but a lot of the Boards set up had failed to understand Banking policies and have
48 forced the bank managements to abide with its decision thus causing the current problem of bad loans. He assured that NBV would play the role of NDB. He pointed out that NHC and NBV were currently paying their loans therefore these companies should not be too concerned.
17. The Hon. Prime Minister said it was important that MPs understood the Reform concept, which also helped to brighten the side of the private sector. He said Ni-Vanuatu required training to be able to manage properly such institutions, (NBV, NPF, NDB). It was the intention of the AMU to be set up after the implementation of CRP. He said that the Government guarantees loans of Ni-Vanuatu borrowers in the VNPF. Bad loans must be recovered therefore AMU was set up for that purpose. If loans cannot be paid, then assets were sold to recover the money and AMU would concentrate more on its administration than trying to recover bad loans.
18. The Hon. Maxim CARLOT, Member for Port Vila, had disagreed with the French version of the Bill regarding bad debts however with the Minister’s explanation of the term “bad loans”, he had a much clear understanding. He said that it was the responsibility of the Government of the day to look into bad debts. He questioned what had become of the bad debts taken by former Governments. He considered that there be a law on loans written off. He asked if the money from VNPF could be used for something else.
19. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, confirmed that the loans from former The Governments were included. He clarified that NB was not included. He clarified that NB was not included in the Equity Fund. As for VNPF money, it would not be used to invest in Vanuatu but overseas instead. He gave examples of Tuvalu and Kiribati. The draft was yet to be written up. The best investment of VNPF money would be to buy bonds from the Reserve Bank. He hoped that the Bill would be tabled in the next session of Parliament.
20. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was carried by 26 votes in favour and 15 against.
21. Section 1, “Purpose”, was approved on division.
22. Section 2, “Interpretation”, was approved on division.
23. Section 3, “Establishment Of Asset Management Unit”, was approved on division.
24. Section 4, “Board Of The AMU”, was approved on division.
49 Section 5, ‘‘Functions Of The AMU”
25. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, asked how would AMU act on behalf of VNPF to recover the Vt 500 million from NDB and also the Vt 50 million from NHC. Both ADB and NHC are Government owned statutory bodies. He pointed out that it did not have assets.
26. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance, clarified that it was Vt 1.90 million and not Vt 200 million as stated and that the loan would be transferred to NBV. As for NHC, no updated information however if not yet paid would go to AMU or if already being paid then it would go to NBV.
27. Section 5 was approved on division.
28. Section 6, “Powers Of The AMU”, was approved on division.
Section 7, “Operations Of The AMU”
29. The Hon. Willie JIMMY, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know what head.
30. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of f inance, said that the budget of the Asset Management Unit was included in the 1998 budget and if that it had started to operate on 3 July 1998 and its budget was Vt 40 000,000.
31. The Hon. Member for Port Vila, Willie JJ1MMY, asked clarifications about sub Section (3) of Section 7.
32. The Hon. Sela MOLISA, Minister of Finance said that there were some agreement on the assets to be taken back by the Government and that this Unit must make sure that the maximum should be recovered and that only the balance should be return to the borrower or owner of the asset.
33. Section 7 was approved on division.
34. The sitting was suspended at 3.35 p.m and resumed at 4.00 p.m.
35. Section 8, “Dissolution Of AMU”, was approved on division.
36. Section 9, “Chief Executive Officer”, was approved on division.
37. Section 10, “Staff Of The AMU”, was approved on division.
38. Section 11, “Restructuring Plan”, was approved on division.
39. Section 12, “Consequential Amendments”, was approved on division.
50 40. Section 13, “Effect Of Transfer”, was approved on division.
41. Section 14, “Notice To Customers”, was approved on division.
42. Section 15, “Fees And Charges Of Transfer”, was approved on division.
43. Section 16, “Transition”, was approved on division.
44. Section 17, “Regulation”, was approved on division.
45. Section 18, “Commencement”, was approved on division.
SECOND READING
46. The Hon. Minister of Finance, Sela MOLISA, moved that the Bill be read a second time in Parliament and do pass.
47. The motion that the Bill be read a second time and do pass was carried by 25 votes for and 15 votes against.
48. The Hon. Sato KILMAN, Member for Malekula, made a point of order according to Standing Order 12 (3) and reminded the Speaker of Parliament as to when the Second ordinary Session of Parliament would begin since it was already mid August.
49. The Hon. Speaker of Parliament said that following the interpretation from the Attorney General’s Office, the Second Ordinary Session could commence anytime in the month of August and he hoped that the Standing Order Committee took note of the matter.
50. The Third Extraordinary Session of Parliament was closed at 4.15 p.m,
51 AUTHENTIC! CATION
Les proces-verbaux qui figurent dans le present recueil ont ete 6tablis par le Secrdtairc Gdneral du Parlement et con form6ment aux dispositions de 1’Article 18 du Reglcment Inttricur. Ils ont ete corriges et confirmes par le Parlement.
President du Parlement PARLEMENT DE LA PARL+I AMENT OF THE REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE DU PARLEMENT
ALICK, John Robert Depute de Tongoa AVOCK, Sam Dan Depute de Paama BANGTOR, Daniel Aaron Depute d’Ambry m BONGNAIM, Irene Leingkon Depute d ’Ambrym BOULEKONE, Vincent Depute de Pentecost BULE, James Depute d’Ambae CALO, Joe Bomal Depute d ’Efate HAKWA, Silas Charles Depute d’Ambae IMBERT, Jimmy Depute de Santo JIMMY, Willie Depute de Port- Vila KALPOKAS, Donald Depute d ’Efate KILMAN, Sato Depute de Malekula KORMAN, Maxime Carlot Depute de Port- Vila LEMAYA, Kila Mande Depute d ’Epi LEO, Clement Depute de Port-Vila LINI, Walter Hadye Depute de Pentecost MAHE, Jean Alain Depute de Santo MERIFAR, Josiah Tom Depute de Malekula MOLI, Josias Depute de Malo MOLISA, Sela Depute de Santo NAFUKI, Allan Depute des lies isolees de Tafea NATAPEI, Edward Nipake Depute de Port-Vila NATUMAN, Joe Depute de Tanna NAUNUN, laris Depute de Tanna NICKLAM, Jimmy Depute de Tanna PASVU, Philip Iercet Depute de Santo POSEN, Willy Depute de Tanna RAKOM, Foster Depute d ’Efate RAVUTIA, Albert Pisuvoke Depute de Santo RAYARU, Wilson Depute de Port- Vila REGINALD, Stanley Depute de Banks/Torres SAIMON, Hon. Esmon Depute de Malekula SESE, Jacques Depute d’Ambae SONG, Keasipai Depute de Tanna SOPE, Barak Tame Depute d’Efate STEVEN, Morkin Iatika Depute de Tanna
h M. TABI, Barnabas Depute de Pentecost M. TABI, Jonas Kuran Depute de Pentecost M. TAG A, Henri Tarikarea Depute de Port-Vila M. TARI, John Molibaraf Depute de Santo M. TARI, Paul Ren Depute de Maewo M. TELUKLUK, Paul Barthelemie Depute de Malekula M. THYNA, Jacob Depute de Malekula M. TINWAKO, Anas Depute de Santo M. TITEK, Jacklyn Reuben Depute de Malekula M. TITONGOA, Amos Depute de Shepherds M. VARASMAITE, Willie Ollie Depute d ’Epi M. VOHOR, Serge Rialuth Depute de Santo M. WELLS, George Andre Depute de Luganville M. WILLIE, John Morrison Depute de Malekula M. WILSON, Hon. Barnabas Depute de Banks/Torres M. YAUKO, Hon. Henry Depute de Tanna
hi
PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE
TROISIEME SESSION EXTRAORDINAIRE DE 1998
MERCREDI 29 JU1LLET 1998
PRESIDENT : M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute de Port-Vila.
PRESENT : 29 deputes M. John Alick ROBERT, Depute de Tongoa M. Sam Dan A VOCK, Depute de Tanna M. Daniel BANGTOR, Depute de Ambrym M. Joe Bomal CALO, Depute d’Efate M. James BULE, Depute de Ambae M. Donald KALPOKAS, Depute d’Efate M. Clement LEO, Depute de Pentecote M. Walter H. LINI, Depute de Pentecote M. Josias Tom MERIFAR, Depute de Mallicolo M/ Josias MOLI, Depute de Malo M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo M. Iatika Morking STEVEN, Depute de Tanna M. Allan NAFUKI, Depute des Autres Iles du Sud M. Edward Natapei NIPAKE, Depute de Port-Vila M. Iarris NAUNUN, Depute de Tanna M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna M. Philip PASVU, Depute de Santo M. Foster RAKOM, Depute d’Efate M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna M. Wilson RAYARU, Depute de Port-Vila M. Barnabas Andy TABI, Depute de Pentecote M. Jonas TABIKURAN, Depute de Pentecote M. John Tan MOLIBARAF, Depute de Santo M. Paul Ren TARI, Depute de Maevo M. Annas TINWAKU, Depute de Luganville M. Jackleen Ruben TITEK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Willie Oli VARASMATE, Depute d’Epi M. George Andre WELLS, Depute de Luganville M. John Morrison WILLIE, Depute de Mallicolo M. Barnabas WILSON, Depute de Banks
1 ABSENTS : M. Vincent BOULEKONE, D6put6 de Pentecote M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila M. Esmon SAJMON, Depute de Mallicolo M. Silas HAKWA, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jimmy IMBERT, Depute de Santo M. Jimmy WILLY, Depute de Port-Vila M. Sato KILMAN, Depute de Mallicolo M. Irenee B. LEINGKONE, D6put£ de Ambrym M. Kila LEMAYA, Depute de Epi M. Jean Alain MAHE, Depute de Santo M. Joe NATUMAN, Depute de Tanna M. Albert RAVUTIA, Depute de Santo M. Willy POSEN, Depute de Tanna M. Stanley REGINALD, Depute de Banks M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Depute de Santo M. Jaques SESE, Depute de Ambae M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efat£ M. Henry Karea TAGA, Depute de Port-Vila M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo M. Amos TITONGOA, Depute de Emae M. Henry YAUKO, D6put£ de Tanna.
1. Le President du Parlement, constate le manque de quorum et ajoume la Session conformement aux dispositions du paragraphe 4) de 1’article 21 de la Constitution au 3 aoftt 1998.
2. La seance est levde a 14hl 5.
2 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE
TROISIEME SESSION EXTRAORDINAIRE DE 1998
LUNDI 3 AOUT 1998
PRESIDENT : M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute de Port-Vila
PRESENT : 47 Deputes
RETARD : M. Esmon SAIMON, Depute de Mallicolo M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo
1. Le President du Parlement, ouvre la seance a 8h5O et demande au parlement d’observer u ne m inute des ilence e n 1 ’honneur dud eces d e A lexis B ulekuli, 1 e pere Lino Bulekuli, Secretaire du Parlement.
2. M. Allan NAFUKI, Depute des Autres Iles du sud, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce 1 ’ ordre du j our.
4. M. Paul Ren TARI, Le Chef de groupe de la majorite, annonce les Projets de loi a debattre.
PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 PORTANT RATIFICATION DE LA CONVENTION DE PRET PROGRAMME DE REFORME GLOBALE ENTRE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU ET LA BANQUE ASIATIQUE DE DEVELOPPEMENT
PREMIERE LECTURE
5. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, presente le Projet de loi, en explique les motifs et en propose 1’ex amen en premiere lecture.
3 6. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, dit qu’il a ete limoge du poste de ministre des Finances parce que la BAD estimait qu’il etait une entrave a l’enquete qu’elle menait sur l’economie du pays et la fusion de la BDV et la BNV. Il ajoute qu’il n’est pas d’accord sur certaines conditions de pret de la BAD et qu’il votera contre le Projet de loi.
7. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, dit que tous les projets realises avec des emprunts etrangers ont tous echoue et que ce n’est pas avec ce pret de la BAD qu’on va ameliorer la situation et s’oppose aussi a certaines conditions de pret tel que l’hypotheque de certains actifs du gouvemement. Il ajoute que l’opposition votera contre le Projet de loi parce qu’elle estime que le pret ne sera pas utilise pour financer une activite ou un projet pouvant generer des revenus pour l’Etat. Il estime aussi que ce pret a oblige le gouvemement a imposer la TVA qui rendra la vie plus difficile encore pour les Vanuatais et a exiger aussi la fusion des deux banques locales.
8. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, regrette de voir que certains n’apprecient pas la situation dans laquelle nous vivons aujourd’hui et dit que nous ne pouvons pas sortir de cette situation en restant les bras croises, d’ou la necessite de recourir a la refoime. Il ajoute que ce n’est qu’avec la reforme qu’on peut ramener la confiance dans le pays et attirer de nouveaux invest!sseurs.
9. M. Joe NATUMAN, Ministre de l’Education, soutient les principes du Projet de loi et dit qu’on connait tous les problemes qui existent actuellement dans le pays c’est pourquoi on a recours a la reforme qui est la solution adequate pour resoudre ces problemes. Il ajoute que l’ancien gouvemement a emprunte ces demieres annees la oil il ne fallait pas et que cette fois le gouvemement actuel emprunte aupres d’une institution etrangere de credit reconnue intemationalement pour eviter de refaire les memes erreurs,
10. M. Jaques SESE, Depute de Ambae, estime que l’argent obtenu ne changera rien dans le pays a moins que les gens changent de mentalite. Dans la langue parlee on utilise ‘right sizing’ (optimisation), la loi prevoit ‘downing sizing’ (reduction). Les banques ont deja obtenu des prets. Les Directeurs souvent etrangers n’ont produit aucune preuve de productivite. Il estime que le neocolonialisrne est en cours. Les expatries passent plus de 2 ans a travailler dans le pays sans former la releve locale. Il craint que l’economie ne decolle pas apres le depart des expatries. En lisant le contrat d’emprunt, il constate des lignes directives. Il craint qu’au lieu de reduire le nombre de fonctionnaires, on risque d’augmenter plutot leur nombre.
11. M. Walter H. LINI, Ministre de l’lnterieur, ecoute avec interet les interventions des blocs du gouvemement et de l’opposition. Tout le monde reconnait la mauvaise situation que connait le pays. L’ancien gouvemement depuis 1992 a depense toutes nos reserves. Le pays a re^u beaucoup de propositions. Il ne serf a rien de mener des debats steriles. Ce qu’il faut savoir c’est qu’il existe diverses institutions financieres plus ou moins credibles. Il faut par contre se mefier de
4 particuliers qui veulent faire prendre de mauvaises decisions par le gouvemement. Certains de ces gens sont poursuivis en justice. Il demande aux politiciens d’apprendre a etre realistes. Nous avons des citoyens capables de promouvoir le developpement. On peut tout raconter mais personne ne croira. La reforme a ete decidee par tous. Il faut voter, il appartiendra au prochain gouvemement de 2002 de prendre une autre orientation.
12. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, rappelle le Reglement Interieur, que chaque depute ne doit intervenir que trois fois.
13. La seance est suspendue a 10h25, reprend a 10h55.
14. M. Iarris NAUNUN, Depute de Tanna, soutient le Projet de loi et rappelle que le Parlement doit l’etudier. Certains particuliers ont entraine des Ministres dans des situations douteuses. Cet emprunt permet de mettre en ouvre la reforme pour redresser la situation du pays. Beaucoup d’agents ont ete embauches sans prendre en compte leurs qualifications. L’opposition doit appuyer le Projet de loi car l’emprunt a ete initie par le chef de TOpposition. L’opposition doit faire des declarations constructives.
15. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, rappelle que le Wurrata group n’a re^u que 7 millions de vatu mais pas 78 millions de vatu. Il accuse le gouvemement de vouloir regler les compte de certains particuliers a la Banque de developpement et NBV. Il rappelle qu’a la fin de 1995 l’ancien gouvemement a laisse le double de la reserve de 1991. Son gouvemement a injecte des fonds frais A la BDV et NBV pour qu’elles puissent mieux fonctionner. Les prets se sont acceleres et ont vide le fonds de prets. Il se demande pourquoi ne pas injecter des fonds a la BDV et a la NBV au lieu de les fusionner et n’y injecter que 400m Vatu au lieu de 600m Vatu. Il estime qu’il faut reinvestir les fonds empruntes au lieu de financer les greves. 11 rappelle a M. Iarris Naunun qu’il exerce ses droits de depute. A son avis, il faut enqueter qui sont les instigateurs des troubles de janvier 1998. 11 estime qu’il ne sert a rien de rembourser entre 2000 et 2019. Le Vanuatu n’est pas de la situation de Rwanda ou Somalie.
16. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, remercie ceux qui ont participe au debat. La refomie vise a rendre transparentes les decisions du gouvemement et les rendre plus legales. La croissance d6mographique entraine la croissance de demande de services. L’OCPBV alimente la reserve de devises dont les % sont tenues dans des banques privees. La BDA ne nous a rien impose; ce sont les dirigeants qui ont presente les demandes du pays a la BDA. L’optimisation permet de remettre la bonne personne a la bonne place. Ceux qui seront renvoyes auront un soutien du gouvemement s’ils le desirent. Pour que la reforme soit efficace, il faut de Largent que le pays n’a pas. Il faut done 1’emprunter et le rembourser avec les ressources du pays. La TVA a ete creee par le pays, pas la BDA. La dette publique represente 2,2% du PNB. Le Vanuatu peut done soutenir l’emprunt.
5 17. La seance est suspendue a 1 lh30, reprend a 14hl 0.
18. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, felicite le gouvemement pour la negociation du pret qui servira a la mise en oeuvre du Programme Reforme Globale mais estime que la Fusion des deux banques locales n’est pas une meilleure solution pour les Vanuatais qui voudront emprunter pour se lancer dans les affaires. Il espdre qu’avec ce pret il y aura plus de prestations des services de 1’administration dans le domaine de l’Education et de la Sante dans les zones rurales.
19. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, dit que les principes du Projet de loi sont totalement negatifs et que le gouvemement actuel devrait reconsiderer certaines conditions de ce pret qui ne sont pas du tout favorables. Il ajoute que ce pret de la BAD oblige le gouvemement a imposer la TVA qui ne favorisera que la flambee des prix et rendra encore plus difficile la vie des Vanuatais dont les revenues sont tres modestes.
20. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, dit que le gouvemement a opte pour cet emprunt pour la simple raison qu’on n’a pas d’argent et qu’il faut emprunter pour la mise en ceuvre de la reforme. Il soutient les principes du Projet de loi parce que ce pret permettra au gouvemement de restructurer la Fonction publique afin d’avoir une Fonction publique a la taille de l’Admimstration du Vanuatu. Il ajoute que pour avoir un bon gouvemement il faut une bonne administration et non pas se faire administrer par les consultants Strangers. Le depute de Port-Vila demande en meme temps F equivalent de 1 200 000$ US en vatu.
21. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, remercie les deputes pour leurs commentaires et admet que le gouvemement doit faire 1’effort d’assurer de meilleurs services a la population rurale. Il dit que 1 200 000 $ US equivalent a 1.5 milliard de vatu et qu’un droit de tirage special*equivaut a 20 000 000 $ US. Il ajoute que les pourvoyeurs de fonds tels que l’Australie, la Nouvelle Zelande, la France et le RU ont fait savoir qu’ils sont contents de la refomie et qu’ils continueront de nous soutenir financierement.
22. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, dit que le fait que nous soyons deja dans une mauvaise situation et contractons encore un emprunt n’aggrave que la situation dans ce sens que nous nous endettons davantage. Il dit aussi que le Programme de Reforme Globale ne se limite pas seulement au pret de la BAD puisqu’il existe encore d’autres activites comme il existe aussi d’autres solutions qui consisteraient a ameliorer la rentabilite des services administratifs, creer des entreprises afin de relever l’economie du pays. Il ajoute qu’il n’y a aucune garantie que ce pret favorisera 1’amelioration de prestations des services aupres de la population rurale. Le depute d’Efate continue, disant qu’il existe d’autres institutions de credit dont les conditions de pret sont meilleures et plus favorables que celles de la BDA.
6 23. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, rappelle que le Chef adjoint de 1’opposition avait deja negocie 1,5 milliard lorsqu’il etait Vice-Premier Ministre mais que le gouvemement actuel n’a fait que negocier cinq cent millions. Il rappelle aussi que tous les prets de la BAD comme ceux des autres banques sont tous garantis par les actifs de l’Etat et estime que les propos du Chef adjoint de 1’opposition ne sont que purement politiques.
24. La motion portant approbation du Projet de loi en premiere lecture est approuvee par 33 voix contre 16.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
ARTICLE 1, RATIFICATION’
25. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, demande an ministre des Finances des clarifications sur la partie du pret qui servira a payer les consultants etrangers.
26. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, confirme que la BAD accorde aussi des fonds qui serviront a payer les consultants etrangers mais qu’ils ne sont pas inclus dans le pret.
27. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, demande l’equivalent de 1 200 000 $ US en vatu.
28 M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que 1 200 000 $ US equivalent a environ 1, 450 milliards de vatu.
29. M. P aul T ELUKLUK, D epute d e M allicolo, d emande c e q ue s ignifie d epenses locales.
30. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que ce sont les frais ou depenses a prendre en charge par le gouvemement de Vanuatu. Il ajoute que l’ONU n’appliquera pas la meme classification pour les petits pays insulaires et les grands pays. Les dispositions font en sorte que les garanties sont uniformes sur tous les prets intemationaux. Quant a la NBV, la principale decision porte sur la procedure d’accord de prets. La banque devrait accorder des prets selon les capacites de remboursement. Les expatries seront employes pendant 2 ans et entre-temps on doit trouver des vanuatais qui devront assurer la releve locale. Il vaut mieux ameliorer sa direction car la banque contribue a l’economie. Le gouvemement etudiera s’il faut revendre les 49% des actions de la banque.
31. La seance est suspendue a 15h40, reprend a 16h05.
7 32. M. B arak T. S OPE, D eputc d ’Efate, s e r eferant alas ection 1) d e 1 ’Annexe 3, estime que les membres du Conseil d’administration seront nommes selon leurs competences professionnelles, et demande si le gouvemement respectait ce critere.
33. M. Esmon SAIMON, Depute de Mallicolo, demande pourquoi le gouvemement doit rembourser l’emprunt en 40 ans au lieu de 4 ou 8 ans.
34. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, en reponse a Barak Sope, rappelle que la loi sur la CNPV sera remodifiee a la prochaine session. Selon le document de la reforme, seule les diplomes auront la chance d’obtenir des postes a pourvoir partout. Une loi renforcera ce critere. Il repond & Esmon Saimon DTS 40 977 000 egale 2, 600 milliards de vatu; I’etalement de remboursement permet au pays d’alleger le remboursement annuel des emprunts.
35. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, demande les equivalents en vatu des remboursements annuels.
36. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, (page. 10 parag.l) demande pourquoi la date du commencement du programme est juillet 1997 et non de juillet 1997- juillet 2000.
37. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond a Maxime Carlot que le pays remboursera 7,4-7,5 millions de vatu par an. Il repond a Keasipai Song que le pret est applicable des juillet 1997.
38. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande quels sont les ‘articles admissibles’ prevus a Particle 2 (d). Le PNB en 1985 n’est que 8 000 vatu, contrairement aux 640 dollars US prevus dans le contrat d’emprunt. A la page 17, le gouvemement devait cocher ce qui est deja fait. Selon les pages 17 et 18 la BAD doit etre certaine que les conditions seraient remplies pour debloquer une nouvelle tranche. Il espere que les travaux d’optimisation vont demarrer.
39. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que les articles admissibles non specifies dans cette loi ne peuvent etre payes par l’emprunt. On estime que 490 millions de vatu permettront d’indemniser les personnes licenciees. Le gouvemement a deja fait beaucoup de ce qui a ete prevu. Les offres d’emplois sont d eja p ublides d ans le p ays e t a 1 ’etranger. En s eptembre d es e xperts d e 1 a BAD viendront etudier le deblocage de la premiere tranche. Les rapports permettront d’informer la BAD de ce qui a ete fait.
40. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, demande suite a la page 17 du contrat d’emprunt s’il est prevu d’autres conditions pour que le gouvemement puisse reviser la TVA apres reception de l’emprunt. 11 demande s’il est prevu de maintenir les conditions pendant 40 ans alors qu’on devrait assurer la relive dans les 10 premieres annees. A son avis les conditions peuvent etre retirees apres Fan
8 2000. La BAD ne pourra pas imposer qui que ce soit. Il conclut en demandant qui sera sanctionne pour toute infraction de ce genre.
41. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que la TVA est une condition et est deja applicable. Les expatriees ont des contrats de deux ans puis relevds localement. Le retour en arrifere entrainera des reactions. Les conditions sont imposes pour obtenir l’emprunt.
42. L’Article 1 est approuv6 au vote.
43. L’Article 2, « ENTREE EN vigueur », est approuvd au vote.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
44 M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, propose que le Projet de loi soit lu une deuxieme fois et approuv6e.
45. La motion est approuvee par 28 voix contre 14.
PROJET DE LOI No DE 1998 SUR LES PATENTES COMMERCIALES
PREMIERE LECTURE
46. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, prSsente le Projet de loi et en expose les motifs.
47. La seance est lev6e a 17h00.
9 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE
TROISIEME SESSION EXTRAORDINAIRE DE 1998
MARDI 4 AOUT 1998
PRESIDENT M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute de Port-Vila
PRESENT : 41 Deputes
RETARD M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote M. Esmon SALMON, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jimmy IMBERT, Depute de Santo M. Jimmie WILLY, Depute de Port-Vila M. Donald KALPOKAS, Depute d’Efate M. Joe NATUMAN, Depute de Tanna M. Albert RAVUTIA, Depute de Santo M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate M. John Tari MOLIBARAF, Depute de Santo M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo
1. Le President du Parlement ouvre la seance a 8h45.
2. M. Kila LEMAY A, Depute d’Epi, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce l’ordre du jour.
PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 SUR LES PATEN t ES COM MERCI ALES
PREMIERE LECTURE (Suite)
4. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il y aura des corrections a faire au cours de 1’examen du Projet de loi en commission pleniere.
10 5. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, depute de Tanna, dit que le Projet de loi est correct parce qu’il definit le travail des autorites chargees de delivrer les patente. Il ajoute que ce Projet de loi favorise cette fois plus de flexibilite et que cela encouragera la population rurale a se lancer dans les affaires.
6. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, estime que ce Projet de loi ne reduit pas les droits de patentes commerciales des activites que les Vanuatais peuvent exploiter. 11 dit que la nouvelle loi va regrouper toutes les activites de la categorie alors que l’ancienne loi les separait sous differentes categories et que cela de<;oit beaucoup le public parce que les reductions qui existent en vertu de la nouvelle loi ne sont que tres minimes.
7. M. Willie POSEN, Depute de Tanna, estime que ces reductions de droits de patente commerciale ne seront bdndfiques que pour les commer^ants de la ville puisque c eux d es z ones rurales s eront v ictimes des e ffets d e 1 a T VA. Il ajoute qu’il ne faut jamais oublier la population rurale & chaque fois qu’on vote les lois au parlement.
8. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, depute de Pentecote, dit qu’il s’inquiete pour les habitants des lies qui travaillent leurs terres et produisent des produits de qualite tel que le coprah dont le prix augmentera dans les annees a venir et que ces producteurs insulaires prennent eux-memes l’initiative d’exporter leurs produits a l’etranger. Il ajoute que l’OCPB a le droit exclusif d’exportation du coprah et obtient cette fois celui du kava. C’est pourquoi le depute de Pentecote demande au gouvemement si cela est correct. Il estime que ce Projet de loi n’a aucune consideration envers les hommes d’affaires Vanuatais puisqu’il ne reduit que les droits des patentes des activites commerciales que seuls les expatries sont en mesure de les exploiter. Il demande en meme temps en quoi ce Projet de loi aide la population rurale.
9. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit que ce Projet de loi tente de simplifier les categories des patentes commerciales, specialement pour les Vanuatais du fait que les exportations des produits de base du Vanuatu sont tout exemptees et il n’y a plus besoins d’obtenir le permis d’exportation. Il estime que ce Projet de loi encouragera davantage les entreprises locales a exporter.
10. M. Joe NATUMAN, Ministre de 1’Education, soutient les principes du Projet de loi du fait qu’il est presente suivant les principes du Programme de Reforme Globale et qu’il accorde aussi certains pouvoirs ou droits aux collectivites locales. Il estime que le Projet de loi devrait etre mis au vote.
11. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, se dit content d’apprendre que les Vanuatais seront exemptes des droits de patente commerciale qui, pour lui, etaient un obstacle pour ceux qui souhaitaient se lancer dans les affaires.il estime que le gouvemement a bien pese cela parce que les droits de patente commerciale
11 n’encourageaient pas du tout l’homme d’affaires Vanuatais a entreprendre les affaires.
12. M. Joe Calo BOM AL, Depute d’Efate, dit quel a patente commerciale est une balance pour 1’economi e d’un pays et estime que si le gouvemement accorde trop d’exemption cela risque d’etouffer certaines affaires. II ajoute que les expatries prennent de 1’a vantage sur les Vanuatais c’est pourquoi il faut un bon controle de la part des autorites concemees.
13. M. Jacques SESE, Depute de Ambae, estime que ce Projet de loi est une autre porte ouverte aux gens d’affaires, Le gouvemement doit aider les Vanuatais a se lancer dans les affaires en leur dormant des informations et de la formation. A son avis le montant des patentes commerciales est un obstacle au lancement des affaires. La concurrence des prix e carte les Vanuatais des affaires. Sou vent les Vanuatais n’ont pas assez de capitaux pour lancer une affaire. Le gouvemement doit aider les Vanuatais a decoder dans les affaires.
14. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, est d’accord avec ce que dit Jacques Sese en ce qui conceme les informations et la formation, mais l’aide au lancement des affaires peut aboutir a un paradoxe selon lequel beaucoup de society serai ent lancees et beaucoup tomberont en faillite. Dans certains pays comme l’Australie, 1’investisseur etranger ne doit detenir 100% des actions d’une societe. Le marche de taxis est sature a Port-Vila. Il estime qu’il ne faut pas encourager de la discrimination sauf si celle-ci est positive. Il faut laisser la chance aux societes de survivre. En ce qui conceme le duty-free le gouvemement va 1’encourager. Quant a la zone de duty-free, le gouvemement doit etudier a l’avenir.
15. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, declare qu’il n’a aucun interet dans toute affaire commerciale. Il soutient le Projet de loi et ne veut pas de discrimination dans les affaires. Le pays independant doit assumer ses responsabilites. A son avis, le debat doit se limiter aux questions des patentes commerciales. Le gouvemement ne doit pas intervenir dans la question de la participation des Vanuatais aux affaires. Le gouvemement doit aider a la commercialisation nationale et i P etranger. Il faut sans tarder redemarrer une huilerie, une usine de traitement du kava pour eviter d’etre en retard sur certains marches etrangers. L’autosuffisance economique depend de Fimportance de la qualite de produits industriels.
16. La seance, suspendue a 10h30, reprend a 1 lhOO.
17. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, dit qu’apres la loi sur laTVA, le gouvemement va introduire les lois sur l’impot sur le revenu et les benefices selon les conseils etrangers suite a la reduction des droits de douanes et des patentes commerciales. En reduisant les patentes commerciales qui sont la source principale des recedes des provinces et en supprimant les 5% de subventions provenant du budget national, le gouvemement ne fait qu’etouffer les provinces.
12 Il veut savoir si le gouvemement va reverser une partie de la tva aux provinces. Par cette nouvelle loi, le gouvemement centralise les reglements des patentes. En le classant dans la categorie des banques, le credit union risque de disparaitre. Il veut savoir en outre par quelle garantie, le gouvemement reduit la patente des banques vu qu’elles ne reduisent pas leur taux.
18. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, demande aux ministres concemes de repondre aux questions sur d’huileries et les industries. La tva entre dans la subvention aux provinces qui peut augmenter selon sa situation economique. La Chambre de Commerce sera egalement touchee. Le gouvemement discutera avec elle sur la subvention a accorder. Il faut reetudier toutes les taxes entrant dans les recettes des provinces. Une nouvelle loi, a presenter d’ici peu, le credit union regira la patente de cette affaire ‘bancaire Les banques continueront de verser le 2% du chiffre d’affaires. Le gouvemement ne legifera pas pour controler les taux d’interet. La mode actuel est de ne pas controler les taux d’interets.
19. La motion portant approbation du Projet de loi en premiere lecture est approuvee par 30 voix et 16 abstentions.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
ARTICLE 1, DEFINITIONS’
20. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, remplace *F3’ existant par une nouvelle ‘F3\ Il demande d’ajouter apres 2% « du chiffre d’affaires ». Les droits prevus au « F3 » remplacent la tva.
21. La seance est suspendue all h30, reprend a 14h 15.
22. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit que 1’Annexe 1 sera revue lorsqu’on sera a l’article 18 et qu’il y aura aussi une correction a faire dans le texte anglais qui consistera a supprimer le nombre ‘200 000’ remplace par *20 000\
23. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande s’il n’y avait pas d’autres corrections a faire avant l’article 18.
24. L’Article 1 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
ARTICLE 2, PATENTES COMMERCIALES
25. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit que la liste d’exemptions est coirecte qu’elle n’est pas a modifier.
26. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, demande si les caisses de credit etaient aussi exemptees puisque la loi n’est pas encore adoptee.
13 27. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que les Caisses de Credit sont couvertes par la loi relative aux Cooperatives.
28. L’Article 2 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
14 ARTICLE 3, AUTORITE COMPETENTE’
29. M. Irenee Bongnaim LEINGKONE, Depute de Ambrym, demande quel est le statut de la municipalite dans cette loi et les raisons pour lesquelles la municipalite ne fait pas partie des autorites chargees de delivrer certaines patentes.
30. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit que les municipalites beneficient deja des taxes de propriete fonciere.
31. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande pourquoi on n’inclut pas FOffice des Investissements etrangers dans la liste des autorites pouvant delivrer des patentes.
32. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, admet qu’il devrait y avoir un regroupement des autorites competentes dans 1’octroi des patentes mais ce n’est qu’un premier pas pour Tinstant et mieux vaut d’abord experimenter l’actuel systeme avant de songer a un autre.
33. M. Jean Alain MAHE, Depute de Santo, demande si le gouvemement n’a pas l’intention d ’etablir o u e xiger u n d roit s upplementaire p our 1 es p rovinces p arce que les patentes commerciales sont payees a Port-Vila alors que les activites ont lieu dans les provinces. Il ajoute que ce droit aidera les provinces a generer des revenus parce que les 5% du revenu national auquel elles ont droit sont deja supprimes.
34. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il existe deja un droit supplementaire mais seulement en ce qui conceme les activites d’exploration miniere.
35. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, demande si tous les droits collectes par les provinces reviennent aux provinces ou une partie revient a l’Etat.
36. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que tous les droits collectes par les provinces reviennent aux provinces.
37. L’Article 3 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
38. L’Article 4, « demande de patente », est approuve a la majorite des voix.
39. L’Article 5, « octroi de patente », est approuve a la majorite des voix.
15 ARTICLE 6, INVESTISSEURS ETRANGERS AYANT DROIT A UNE PATENTE’
40. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, dit que l’obtention d’une patente n’est pas un privilege parce que le gouvemement perdra d’argent s’il revoque une patente une fois qu’il saura qu’un investisseur est malhonnete. H demande comment on peut identifier un investisseur malhonnete.
41. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’une patente peut etre revoquee si elle est accordee a un investisseur etranger alors que I’activity & exploiter est I’une de celles qui sont reservees aux Vanuatais.
42. L’Article 6 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
ARTICLE 7, OCTROI DE PATENTE-ACTIVITES ENUMEREES A L’ARTICLE 13’
43. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si les patentes de transport doivent etre payees aux municipalites ou provinces.
44. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il y a eu beaucoup de disputes sur cette question mais que certains ont en meme temps une patente municipale et une provinciate. Il ajoute aussi qu’il faut preciser quelle sorte de patente ces transporteurs veulent obtenir.
45. M. Willie JMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si le Directeur des Douanes seul peut delivre une patente.
46. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit que certaines patentes ne necessitent pas 1 a consultation du ministre conceme et 1 e Directeur des Douanes peut seul dans ce cas delivrer une patente.
47. M. B arak T. S OPE, D epute d ’Efate, r appelle q ue c et article e st r edige de t elle sorte puisque d’apres la loi relative a l’office des Investissements etrangers, le Directeur des douanes est aussi membre de l’office.
48. M. Jean Alain MAHE, Depute de Santo, demande au ministre des Finances s’il peut confirmer si les droits de patentes des activites qui ont lieu dans les zones rurales collectes par les provinces reviennent a part entiere aux provinces.
49. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, confirme que ces droits reviennent a part entiere aux provinces.
16 50. M. Jean Alain MAHE, Depute de Santo, dit que dans ce cas les droits de patente d’exploitation forestiere qui a lieu dans les provinces devraient aussi revenir aux provinces.
51. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il faudra consulter la loi relative aux Exploitations forestieres.
52. L’article 7 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
ARTICLE 8. OCTROI DE PATENTE-ACTIVITES NE FIGURANT PAS A L’ARTICLE 13’
53. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il faut ajouter une virgule apres mot ‘person’ et une autre apres les mots ‘for investment’ et supprimer les mots for a business'’ a l’alinea a) du paragraphe 2 de 1’article 8 du texte anglais.
54. L’article 8 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
55. L’article 9. « renouvellEMENT DES PATENTES ». est approuve a la majorite des voix.
ARTICLE 10. TRANSFERT DE PATENTE’
. 56. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit de supprimer le mot ‘theprovincial’ et de le remplacer par le mot ‘a local’ au paragraphe 2 de l’article 10 du texte anglais.
57. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande quelles sont les dispositions de la presente loi qui regissent le cas d’une entreprise qui fait faillite et transfere sa patente a une autre entreprise.
58. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il n’a pas bien saisi la question du depute Willie Jimmy mais espere que le paragraphe 4) de l’article 10 regit bien le cas souleve par le depute de Port-Vila.
59, M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, demande quelle difference y a- t-il entre le Directeur et le Conseil provincial parce qu’il estime que le Directeur est un fonctionnaire et que le Conseil provincial est une autorite. Il ajoute que le gouvemement se sert d’une autorite locale comme un employe de l’Etat.
60. L’Article 10 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
17 ARTICLE 11, MOTIVATION DE LA DECISION’
61. M. Henry TAGA, Depute de Port-Vila, demande les raisons pour lesquelles une autorite telle qu’un Conseil provincial doit justifier a chaque fois son refus d’octroyer une patente.
62. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que la raison est la transparence et que la personne concemee peut aussi faire appel au ministre conceme ou a la » justice.
63. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, dit qu’il manque Particle 11 du Projet de loi sur sa copie.
64. La seance est suspendue a 15h20, reprend a 15hO5.
ARTICLE 12, RECOURS EN APPEL’
65. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, modifie le texte anglais.
66. Willie JEMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande qu’adviendra t-il en cas de refus d’octroi de patente.
67. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que le tribunal ddcidera en demier ressort. ,
68. L’Article 12 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 13, POUVOIR DU MINISTRE DE CONSENTIR OU REFUSER DES PATENTES DANS CERTAINS CAS’
69. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, precise que toute affaire commerciale qui n’est pas inscrite est sur la liste d’attente. Les dispositions de l’ancien texte sont retenues dans le nouveau texte. Peut-etre qu’a Pavenir seul le tribunal decidera de tout.
70. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, demande si les provinces peuvent accorder des patentes avant d’informer les ministres. 11 estime qu’il ne faut pas tout centraliser.
71. M. M axime C ARLOT, Depute d e P ort-Vila, d emande s i 1 es p rovinces peuvent delivrer certaines patentes et lesquelles.
18 72. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repons que Particle 20 precise que chaque province peut percevoir des patentes. Toute exploitation depend des resultats des etudes.
73. M. Saimon ESMON, Depute de Mallicolo, demande ou sont prevus les droits d’obtention de munitions.
74. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que le peimis de port d’armes releve de la loi sur les armes a feu.
75. L’Article 13 est approuve au vote.
76. L’Article 14, « affichage des patentes », est approuve au vote.
77. L’Article 15, « perte ou destruction de paten_te », est approuve au vote.
78. L’Article 16, « pouvoir d’inspection », est approuve au vote.
79. L’Article 17, « nature confidentielle des informations », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 18, DROITS’
80. M. Willie JI MMY, Depute de Port-Vila, estime que les droits des affaires aux quelles s’engagent plus de Vanuatais ne sont pas reduits contrairement a celles prevues dans la loi sur les investissements etrangers. Il constate que 1’Annexe 1 est couverte de faute, il se demande si 1*Attorney general a relu le texte. Il estime que l’ancienne loi est plus transparente que la nouvelle qui ne donne que deux chiffres (20 000 VT et 90 000 VT). Il regrette qu’une patente ne doive couter que 20 000 VT ou 90 000 VT. Seules les commerces de gros et de details paient moins de patentes. Cela reflete une injustice a Fegard des Vanuatais. Il faut appliquer une discrimination positive en faveur des Vanuatais. Il ne croit pas que le gouvemement fasse des pertes quant aux taxes per^ues. Il enumere les fautes constatees dans 1’Annexe 1 du texte anglais.
81. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, remercie Willie Jimmy et demande de corn ger les erreurs soulevees dans le texte anglais.
82. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, constate que certains textes anglais sont deja corriges et corrects. Seuls les fins des mots disparaissent.
83. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, depute de Pentecote, suggere qu’il seraitplus convenable au Ministre de photocopier le texte corrige pour eviter de perdre du temps.
19 84. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, estime qu’il faut tout corriger la oil c’est necessaire dans le texte. H poursuit alors la correction.
85. Le President autorise M. MOLISA de poursuivre la correction.
86. M.S ela M OLIS A, M inistre d es Finances, estime q ue 1 a p atente d e 2 0 000 V T pour les bars a kava permet de reglcmenter ce commerce. Une modification sera possible A l’avenir.
87. Laseanceestlev6e417h00.
♦ 20 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE
TROISIEME SESSION EXTRAORDINAIRE DE 1998
MERCREDI 5 AOUT 1998
PRESIDENT M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute de Port-Vila
PRESENT 37 Deputes
ABSENT
RETARD M. John Alick ROBERT, Depute de Tongoa M. Esmon SAIMON, Depute de Mallicolo M. Silas HAKWA, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jimmy WILLY, Depute de Port-Vila M. Sato KILMAN, Depute de Mallicolo M. Kila LEMAYA, Depute de Epi M. Walter H. LINI, Depute de Pentecote M. Willy POSEN, Depute de Tanna M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Depute de Santo M. Jaques SESE, Depute de Ambae M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Maxime CARLOT, depute de Port-Vila M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo M. George Andre WELLS, Depute de Luganville.
L Le President du Parlement, ouvre la seance a 14hl5.
2. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, dit la priere.
Le President annonce l’ordre du jour.
21 PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 SUR LES PATENTES COMMERCIALES
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION (suite)
ARTICLE 18, DROITS’
4. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, demande si la version fran^aise a besoin de modifications orthographiques. Il demande de remplacer a F Annexe 1, Particle 18 et d’ajouter a l’Annexe 1 de Particle 2.
5. M. Jacques SESE, Depute de Ambae, souleve des corrections orthographiques a FAnnexe 1, B et D de la version fran^aise.
6. L’Article 18 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 19, DISPOSITIONS GENERALES’
7. M. Willy POSEN, Depute de Tanna, se referant au paragraphe 2, demande si un grossiste detaillant pouvait avoir une seule patente.
8. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, precise que le commer^ant ne doit pas obtenir plus d’une patente si le Commerce de gros est peu important par rapport a celui de detail et vice versa.
9. L’Article 19 est approuv£ au vote.
ARTICLE 20, AFFECTION DES DROITS PERCUS’
10. M. Irenee Bongnaim LEINGNONE, Depute de Ambrym, demande si les filiales et agences provinciales des societes doivent obtenir des patentes differentes.
11. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, modifie le paragraphe 1 du texte anglais et remplace au paragraphe 2) le terme ‘Tresor du gouvemement central’ par ‘Tresor’. Les agences et filiales des societes paient une patente aux conseils provinciaux.
12. M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Le chef de l’Opposition, dit que certaines societes exploitent des matieres premieres sur une province et les transforment dans une autre, ou paient-elles les patentes.
13. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit que ces societes paient des patentes au gouvemement si elles transforment les produits en ville autrement el les les paient aux provinces d’exploitation.
22 14. L’article 20 est approuve au vote.
15. L’article 21, « degrevement ». est approuve au vote.
16. L’article 22, « reduction des droits », est approuve au vote.
17. L’article 23, « PEINES », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 24, ANNULAT1ON DE PATENTE’
18. M. Esmon SAIMON, Depute de Mallicolo, estime que l’annulation des patentes risque de porter atteinte a la participation des Vanuatais au developpement economique surtout si l’annulation est due au fait de la taxation ou non paiement des taxes di verses, l’impdt impose aux societes rend celles-ci vulnerables.
19. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, 1’assure que la personne victime de cet article doit d’abord etre poursuivie en justice et declaree coup able avant toute mesure. Les dispositions de l’article 24 permettent de devoir faire les affaires selon la loi. Le gouvemement ne peut annuler simplement une patente.
20. L’Article 24 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 25, REGLES’
21. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate dit etudier cet article en liaison a 1’Annexe 2 et a son avis, 1 ’Annexe 2 n ’est p as necessaire c ar 1 e ministre peut p rendre des arretes sur une question quelconque, y compris celle que couvre 1’Annexe 2. Quant au kava, il se demande pourquoi le planteur ne peut pas exporter lui-meme sa production vers des marches juteux et pourquoi l’OCPV n’autorise pas cela car il achete a 750 vt le kg et l’exporte a 400$ le kg. Il conclut en demandant si le Ministre peut prendre des arretes pour ameliorer la situation.
22. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, precise que la loi autorise quiconque d’exporter sans restriction. L’exportation des produits de base par 1’OCPB permet simplement de constituer des reserves de devises. Il affirme que l’OCPBV suit sa legislation, il n’impose aucun prix et aucun marche exterieur. L’OCPBV donne l’autorisation d’exporter. Le gouvemement n’a besoin que de devises pour faire toumer 1’economic.
23. M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Le chef de l’Opposition, constate qu’a PAnnexe 2 la version ffanqaise ne s’arrete qu’au ''Ministre des cultes et missions
24. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, rappelle que sa demiere intervention n’a pas de reponses a cause de cela. Il se felicite d’entendre dire par
23 le ministre que 1’exportateur n’a pas besoin de patente. Il estime que l’Etat et l’OCPBV ne doivent pas concurrencer les planteurs.
25. M. James BULE, Ministre du Commerce, constate beaucoup d’interet pour le kava. Il promet de faire une declaration a ce sujet.
26. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, rappelle le Reglement Interieur pour dire que la Chambre est en commission pleniere pour etudier Particle 25. Le debat deborde du cadre normal.
27. M. James BULE, Ministre du Commerce, assure qu’il fera une declaration demain jeudi 5 aout 1998.
28. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, estime quel le Ministre doit se servir de Particle 25 pour prendre des arretes pour redresser certaines situations.
29. L’Article 25 est approuve au vote.
30. L’Article 26, « abrogation », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 27, ENTRE EN VIGUEUR’
31. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, precise que la loi entrera en vigueur le ler aout 1998. Car l’application va de pair avec celle de la TVA.
32. L’Article 27 est approuve au vote.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
33. .M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, propose que le Projet de loi soit lu une 24me fois est approuve.
34. M. Allan NAFUKI, Depute des Autres Iles du sud, propose de retoumer a Pexamen en commission pour reviser l’Annexe 2 qui releve de Particle 2.
35. M. Paul Ren TARI, Depute de Maevo, appuie la proposition.
36. La motion est approuvee a Punanimite.
24 EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
ARTICLE 2, PATENTES COMMERCIALESE
37. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, annonce que des corrections ont ete portees a 1’Annexe 2.
38. Le Secretaire general du parlement fait lecture de l’Annexe 2 tel que modifiee.
39. L’Article 2, avec les corrections, affSrentes a l’Annexe 1 est approuve a la majorite des voix.
40 La motion portant approbation finale du Projet de loi en deuxieme lecture est approuvee par 29 voix avec 17 abstentions.
41. La seance suspendue a 15h35, reprend a 16hl0.
42. M. Paul Ren TARI, Le chef de file du groupe majoritaire, annonce le prochain Projet de loi a debattre.
PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 SUR LE CONSEIL DE REVISION DES TRAITEMENTS DE L’ETAT
PREMIERE LECTURE
43. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, presente le Projet de loi, en explique les motifs et en propose 1’examen en premiere lecture.
44. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, soutien les principes du Projet de loi parce qu’il estime que c’est la premiere fois qu’une loi de ce genre est presentee au parlement pour adoption et parce qu’il y a beaucoup de differences des niveaux salariaux et qu’il est important qu’un tel conseil revise et regularise les salaires des fonctionnaires et des directeurs des societes statutaires qui sont censes recevoir les memes traitements que les directeurs des Service administratif.
45. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, dit que les principes du Projet de loi sont corrects mais qu’il s’inquiete un peu par peur que ce Conseil se trouve en conflit avec la CFP du fait que pour le moment les traitements et indemnites des fonctionnaires sont fixSs par la CFP. Il demande si cette loi s’applique aussi aux societes statutaires et comment ses pouvoirs remporteront sur ceux du Conseil d’administration d’une societe statuaire.
46 M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, explique que la nouvelle loi relative la FP qui vient d’etre adoptee definit les traitements des fonctionnaires mais ce Conseil travaillera en etroite collaboration avec la CFP pour la redaction d’un
25 nouveau manuel du personnel et 1’etablissement de nouvelles grilles salariales. Il ajoute que la loi sur le Conseil de revision des traitements de l’Etat est compatible avec la nouvelle loi de la FP qui vient d’etre adoptee.
47. M. Joe Calo BOMAL, Depute d’Efate, soutient les principes du Projet de loi puisqu’il estime qu’il devrait etre deja adopte quelques annees auparavant. Il espere que le Conseil tiendra compte des qualifications et experiences de chaque fonctionnaire et ajoute que la loi est bonne mais qu’encore une fois on a oublie le representant des travailleurs. Le depute d’Efate espere que les membres de ce Conseil percevront seulement une indemnite de presence et non pas un salaire mensuel.
48. M. Jacques SESE, Depute de Ambae, estime qui cette loi arrive au moment propice parce qu’en ce moment les salaires sont fixes en fonction des postes et non pas en fonction des qualifications. Il ajoute que ce Conseil devrait tenir compte des certificats delivres aussi bien localement qu’a l’etranger ainsi que des rapports presentes par chaque Chef de Service concemant son personnel. Il rappelle en meme temps qu’il existe aussi le probleme de comparaison ou d’equivalence des diplomes obtenus dans les ecoles franqais et anglais. Il conclut disant que les membres de ce Conseil devraient tous etre competents dans tous ces domaines.
49. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que ce Conseil est en quelque sorte un tribunal et a presque que les memes competences qu’une cour et que les membres peuvent enqueter et se renseigner pour avoir les differents points de vue de chacun sur les grilles salariales en vigueur. Il ajoute que le Conseil peut aussi avoir son personnel permanent et demander a ce que son budget soit vote au par lenient.
50. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, estime qu’il existe d’autres mots plus appropries avec lesquels on pourrait nommer ce Conseil et ajoute que les membres doivent etre des personnes qualifiees et capables de reviser les salaires et connaitre les differentes institutions du pays. Il ajoute que le mot reviser peut signifier 1’augmentation des salaires comme il peut aussi bien signifier la reduction des salaires. Il espere que ce Conseil tiendra compte de la cherete ou du cout de la vie et de differentes taxes qui viennent d’etre etablies pour augmenter les salaires des fonctionnaires. Il s’attend a une reduction des indemnites des membres de certains Conseils Administration des societes statuaires et a voir comment ce Conseil fonctionnera. Il recommande en meme temps 1’augmentation du salaire minimum.
51. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, estime que ce Projet de loi devrait deja etre adopte quelques annees auparavant. Il dit que pour avoir ou beneficier de bons services, il faut d’abord bien payer ceux qui assurent la prestation de ces services et c’est cela le but de ce Projet de loi. Il ajoute que le
26 gouvemement doit aussi tenir compte des responsabilites confiees a chaque fonctionnaire.
52. La seance est levee a 17h00.
27 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE
TROISIEME SESSION EXTAORDINAIRE DE 1998
JEUDI6 AOUT 1998
PRESIDENT M. Nipake NATAPEI, depute de Port-Vila
PRESENT 38 Deputes.
ABSENT M. Josiah Tom MERIFAR, Depute de Mallicolo.
RETARD M. John Alick ROBERT, Depute de Tongoa M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila M Jimmy IMBERT, Depute de Santo M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila M. Walter H. LENT, Depute de Pentecote M. Josias MOLI, Depute de Malo M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Depute de Santo M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate M. Jonas TABIKURAN, Depute de Pentecote M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jackleen Ruben TITEK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Annas TINWAKU, Depute de Luganville.
1. Le President du Parlement, ouvre la seance a 8h40.
2. M. Albert RAVUTIA, Depute de Santo, dit la pri&re.
3. Le President annonce l’ordre du jour.
28 PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 SUR LE CONSEIL DE REVISION DES TRAITEMENTS DE L’ETAT
PREMIER LECTURE
4. M. Foster RAKOM, Depute d’Efate, soutient le Projet de loi et se rejouit qu’un tel Projet de loi soit enfin presente au Parlement. Ce Projet de loi entre egalement dans le cadre de la reforme. Il veut toutefois que les membres du Conseil soient neutres et leurs decisions soient transparentes pour eviter tout derapage dans les decisions prises aboutissant au favoritisme. En outre il veut aussi que le petit peuple composant 80% de la population ne soit pas oublie et demande au gouvemement de faire fonctionner a nouveau le Conseil du salaire minimum.
5. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, soutient le Projet de loi et remercie le gouvemement de presenter un tel Projet de loi qui permettra de remunerer nos diplomes selon leurs qualifications universitaires tout en declarant que certains diplomes d’universites sont peu competents. Il soutient le depute d’Efate qui parle de la transparence. La population a une distinction a l’egard des deputes meme si ceux-ci sont moins payes. Les etudiants assidus meritent un diplome et un salaire approprie et conforme aux postes qu’ils occupent. Les membres du Conseil ne doivent pas pratiquer le favoritisme.
6. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, estime que ce Projet de loi permettra de c reer une c ertaine justice dans la f onction publique e n matiere de salaire. Les fonctionnaires doivent oftrir de fa£on efficace des services de bonne qualite a la population de toutes les parties du pays. Partout dans le monde le peuple se plaint de la qualite et quantity des services foumis. Certains services administratifs ne doivent pas oublier certaines parties du pays. Il soutient les interventions de M. Keasipai Song et M. Foster Rakom quant au favoritisme que peut pratiquer le Conseil. Parmi les membres du Conseil, celui venant du secteur prive doit connaitre 1’administration. Le gouvemement doit creer une autre loi ou modifier la loi sur le travail pour crder un conseil similaire dans le secteur prive, qui va veiller au r£6quilibrage des salaires. Il estime que le salaire doit augmenter selon la qualite et la quantite des services produits.
7. Le Projet de loi est approuve en premiere lecture par 28 voix et 16 abstentions.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
8. L’article 1, « objet », est approuvb au vote.
9. L’article 2, « but ». est approuve au vote.
10. L’ article 3, « DEFINITION », est approuve au vote.
29 11. L’ article 4, « application », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 5, CREATION D’UN CONSEIL DE REVISIONS DES TRAITMENTS DE L’ETAT’
12. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, estime que l’interpretation de ces dispositions peut couvrir les deputes. Il veut modifier la formation pour ne couvrir que les fonctionnaires.
13. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, precise que le traitement des deputes est regi par la loi sur la remuneration des dignitaires de l’Etat. Ce Projet de loi couvre les salaires des fonctionnaires et employes des sociStes d’Etat.
14. L’Article 5 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 6, COMPOSITION DU CONSEIL
15. M. Jacques SESE, Depute de Ambae, estime qu’il faut inclure au Conseil les membres de certaines Commissions comme celle de la Police et Fenseignement qui ont line grille salariale differente de celle de la Fonction publique. Ces personnes ont des connaissances des secteurs precis.
16. M. Donald K ALPOKAS, Premier M inistre, dit que le Conseil a trois membres ayant des connaissances dans de domaines varies y compris les commissions. Ils etudieront les candidatures et font des recomm andations ou en informent les commissions precisees par Jacques SESE.
17. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’EfatS, estime que les Conseils d’administration des societes ctatiques fix ent eux-memes les salaires de leurs employes sei on la loi qui les regit en tant que societes. Ce Projet de loi risque de creer des confits.
18. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, est d’accord mais le Conseil n’dtudie que la nomination des membres du conseil d’administration des societes etatiques. Il veille a ce qu’il n’y ait aucune inegalite dans les salaires.
19. M. Joe Calo BOMAL, Depute d’Efate, deciare qu’il ne defend personne mais regrette que ce Conseil n’inclue pas le representant des travailleurs, des syndicats. 11 pre fere remplacer au paragraphe la Chambre de Commerce par la confederation des syndicats. A son avis, les membres du syndicat connaissent mieux les salaires des diverses societes alors que la Chambre de Commerce ne se connait qu'en affaires. Il prefere augmenter le nombre a 5 pour eviter tout favoritisme.
20. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, indique que les decisions ne se font pas en une seule fois. Le Conseil n’impose rien, il ne fait que reglementer
30 l’equilibre des salaires. La Chambre de Commerce nomme au Conseil une personne ayant une bonne connaissance en matiere d’emploi et de gestion du secteur prive.
21. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, n’accepte pas entierement la reponse du Premier Ministre car a son avis la representation des travailleurs reste msatisfaite. Appuye par Serge Vohor Rialuth, il propose d’ajouter un representant du Syndicat national et un representant de la justice.
22. M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Le chef de 1’Opposition, appuie cette motion car les syndicats r epresentent n os t ravailleurs. Ils c ontribueront b eaucoup a u t ravail d e developpement economique et a la reforme. Il est normal qu’un tel Conseil ait des representants de divers secteurs s’il faut se conformer a la reforme.
23. M. Walter H. LINI, Ministre de 1 ’Interieur, rejette 1 a motion c ar i 1 n e f aut p as melanger les employeurs et les employes. Le Conseil ne doit comprendre que des representants des employeurs.
24 M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, repete que ce Conseil n’a pas fonctionne pour resoudre les conflits de travail et sa decision n’est pas finale. Il publiera ses constats que peuvent prendre les employes pour soumettre a leurs employeurs afin de reequilibrer leurs salaires. Il precise que ce Conseil n’est pas un tribunal.
25. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, rejette la motion et soutient les interventions de Walter H. Lini et Donald Kalpokas. Il rappelle que la loi sur les conflits de travail peut satisfaire les motionnaires. Il avait dit quant a la CNPV que les travailleurs choisiront les membres du Conseil d’administration.
26. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, rejette les interventions du gouvemement. A son avis le Conseil etudie les cas de l’employe avant tout confit. Il estime que le nombre limite de membres du Conseil risque de reduire la transparence.
27. La motion portant modification de Particle 6 est rejetee par 26 voix contre, 18 voix pour et 4 abstentions.
28. L’article 6 est approuve au vote.
31 ARTICLE 7, PUREE DU MANDAT’
29. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, estime que les membres du Conseil devraient etre des membres permanents et qu’ils ne devraient pas etre nommes sur contrat ou a temps parti el.
30. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, rappelle que l’article 8 regit les nominations des membres du Conseil et qu’il est deja adopte.
31. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, demande les raisons pour lesquelles les membres percevront un salaire mensuel.
32. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit qu’il repondra a cette question lorsqu’on sera a l’article 11 du projet de loi.
33. M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Le Chef de 1’Opposition, estime que la reponse du Premier Ministre est contraire aux dispositions de la loi relative a la Fonction publique et demande s’il n’y aura pas de conflits entre ce Conseil et la CFP.
34. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, demande combien de membres peuvent etre nommes a temps partiel et pour quelle raison.
35. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, repond qu’il y aurait trois membres du Conseil d’apres l’article 6 et il serait possible qu’un de ces trois membres soit nomme a temps partiel.
36. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande ce qui se passera si le membre qui est nomme a temps partiel est un fonctionnaire.
37. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit qu’il est preferable que les trois membres soient nommes a temps complet et souhaite aussi que tous les trois soient nommes a plein temps.
38. M. Josias MOLI, Depute de Malo, estime que les membres du Conseil doivent bien connaitre les structures et les institutions du gouvemement et qu’il ne faut pas nommer ceux qui n’ont aucune notion du fonctionnement de 1’Administration.
39. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit qu’il y a deux possibility dont la premiere est que le gouvemement nomme un fonctionnaire et pour cela ledit fonctionnaire doit quitter sont poste et que la deuxieme possibilite est que le gouvemement peut aussi bien nommer quelqu’un du prive pour occuper ce poste.
40. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, dit qu’il y aura conflit a cause des traitements ou salaires c’est pourquoi il estime qu’il serait preferable de nommer les membres a plein temps.
32 41. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit qu’il n’y a aucun membre a temps partiel mais il est possible qu’un membre soit nomine a temps partiel comme il peut aussi etre nomine a titre permanent.
42. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, dit qu’il est toujours confus et que d’apres le paragraphe (3) de l’article 7, les trois membres peuvent etre nommes a temps partiel.
43. M. Walter H. LINI, Ministre de 1’Interieur, dit que les intervenants ne font que semer de la confusion et qu’il vaut mieux suspendre la seance pour consulter un juriste.
44. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, soutient les commentaires de Walter H. Lini.
45. La seance suspendue a 10h30, reprend a 1 lhOO.
46. L’article 7 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 8, CAS PARTICULIERS DE VACANCE’
47. M. Jackleen Ruben TITEKS, Depute de Mallicolo, se refere au paragraphe 1) de l’article 8 et demande de quel president s’agit-il.
48. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit qu’il s’agit du President de la Republique.
49. L’Article 8 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 9, REUNIONS’
50. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, dit que les dispositions du paragraphe 6) de l’article 9 enlevent toute idee de poursuite, d’opposition ou d’appel contre la decision du Conseil.
51. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, declare que l’article 9 signifie que nul ne peut questionner le Conseil lorsqu’il est en reunion.
52. L’Article 9 est approuve au vote.
33 ARTICLE 10, MEMBRES ET AGENTS TENDS AU SECRET*
53. M. Amos TITONGOA, Depute de Shepherds, estime que les membres du Conseil doivent etre des personnes de confiance parce que certains secrets sont facilement divulgues par les personnes qui sont censees garder ces secrets.
54. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si le gouvemement a deja une idee du nombre de personnes qui seront recrutees pour travailler au sein du Conseil.
55. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que les membres seront peut-etre tres occupes au debut surtout avec les personnes concemees mais que le Conseil peut deja recruter en premier lieu une secretaire dactylographe et un proces- vSrbaliste.
56. L’Article 10 est approuve au vote.
57. L’Article 11, « remuneration ET indemnites », est approuve au vote.
58. L’Article 12, « PERSONNEL DU CONSEIL », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 13, FONCTIONS DU CONSEIL’
59. M. Kiasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, demande a quelle categorie de personne Palinda I) du paragraphe a) de Particle 13 fait allusion et demande en meme temps si c’est le mot ‘Local Government Council’ ou ’Provincial Government' qu’il faut utiliser a l’alinea iv) de Particle 13 du texte anglais.
60. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, repond que l’alinea I) du paragraphe 1) de Particle 13 fait allusion aux Dignitaires de 1’Etat qui sont couverts par le CAP. 168 et ajoute que se sont les mots ‘Local Government Council’ qu’il faut et non pas ‘Provincial Government \
61. M. H enry T AGA, D epute d e P ort-Vila, d emande s i c ’est b ien 1 e C AP 168 q ui couvre la remuneration des Dignitaires de l’Etat.
62. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, confirme que le CAP 168 regit la remuneration des Dignitaires de l’Etat.
63. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, se refere a l’alinea b) du paragraphe 1 de Particle 13 et demande quelles sont les dispositions de ce texte qui couvrent les Directeurs generaux et les Directeurs des Societes statutaires.
34 64. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit qu’il n’est pas sur que le CAP 168 couvre aussi les Directeurs generaux alors que les Dirccteurs des Societes statutaires sont couverts par la loi qui regit ces societes.
65. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si les maires et presidents des Conseils provinciaux peuvent aussi faire partie des personnes visees aux alineas I) a VIII). Il demande les raisons pour lesquelles les maires et presidents des provinces ne font pas parties des personnes visees aux alineas (i) a viii.
66. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, repond que les traitements des maires et presidents des provinces sont fixes par les lois specifiques a ces collectivites locales. C’est pourquoi ils ne figurent pas dans la presente loi.
67. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, estime que l’article 13 est tres confus puisqu’il ne precise pas comment les membres du Conseil peuvent decider a la place d’un Conseil d’administration d’une societe statutaire si la loi regissant les societes statutaires n’est pas modifiee.
68. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que le Conseil doit s’assurer qu’aucune de ses decisions ne soit contraire ou n’affecte pas les decisions du Conseil d’administration d’une societe statutaire.
69. La seance est suspendue a 1 lh35, reprend a 14h 10.
ARTICLE 13 ,‘FONCTIONS DU CONSEIL*
70. M. Jacques SESE, Depute de Ambae, remarque des erreurs au paragraphe (1). Il veut remplacer "relativement’ par "relatives'.
71. Le President, apres consultation, confirme la correction du depute Jacques Sese.
72 M. Jacques SESE, Depute de Ambae, remarque que le terme ‘determination’ n’est pas fran^ais dans ce conlexte et qu’il manque un verbe entre "qu’elle' "remuneree' au paragraphe (1) e).
73 Le Greffier ajoute que le mot ‘esf manque entre ‘qu ’elle' et "remuneree
74. M. Joe Calo BOMAL, Depute d’Efate, se demande pourquoi le conseil doit reviser les traitements fixes par la Commission de la Fonction publique que regit la loi sur fonction publique. A sa connaissance, le Parlement n’a pas approuve la grille de salaires des organismes ou societes etatiques. Les salaires des Directeurs des organismes et societes etatiques sont tres eleves et ne sont fixes que par ces societes et organismes etatiques. Le Conseil devait reequilibrer les salaires de toute la fonction publique et des organismes et societes etatiques afin d’eviter des cas ou les presidents de conseils provinciaux fixent eux-memes leurs salaires.
35 75. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que l’article 20 impose de ne pas reduire les salaires et l’article 24 permet ce reequilibrage.
76. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, demande si le Premier Ministre a deja repondu a la question de Willie Jimmy quant a 1’article 13 (1) (i) car il veut savoir a quel chapitre de la version regroupee correspond la loi mentionnee au paragraphe 1 (I).
77. Le President rdpond que l’alinda i) de la version fran^aise est correcte.
78. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, rappelle que certains employes d’organismes etatiques e t s ocidtes etatiques c omme A ir V anuatu s ont e mploy6s s ous c ontrat. Tout en reconnaissant les dispositions des articles 20 et 24, il maintient que ce Projet de loi aura du mal a s’appliquer dans ces cas. Toute mesure d’infraction aux contrats risque de mener au tribunal.
79. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que les societes etatiques sont couvertes au paragraphe 1) a) (i-vii).
80. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, demande qui emploie les agents des organismes et societes etatiques.
81. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que ces societes sont inddpendantes mais le gouvemement a son mot a dire quant a la constitution du Conseil d’Administration inclus aux sous l’alinea (i-vi) de l’alinea (a) du paragraphe 1.
82. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, demande si le gouvemement a son mot a dire quant aux societes unelco ou telecom car le pays a des actions dans ces societes. Il interprete ainsi ce que veut dire le Premier Ministre, Donald Kalpokas.
83. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que l’article 18 repond aux questions d’inquietudes des deputes quant a 1’intervention de l’Etat.
84. M. Barak T. SOPE, Le depute d’Efate, estime que selon la loi sur les societes, les soci&es etatiques sont independantes et gereront leurs affaires selon leurs regies decoulant des lois qui les regissent.
85. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, reconnalt cela mais le gouvemement ne peut imposer ces avis aux societes privees ayant des participations de l’Etat. Mais le gouvemement a le droit de regard dans les societes que l’Etat detient a 100%.
86. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, estime que selon la loi sur les societes, le Conseil d’administration decide seul des salaires sans obligation d’obtenir l’avis de l’actionnaire.
36 87. L’Article 13 est approuve au vote.
88. L’Article 14, « MISE EN (EUVRE des determinations du conseil », est approuve au vote,
89. L’Article 15, « NOTIFICATION des DETERMINATIONS » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 16, CRITERES DU CONSEIL’
90. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, se referant au paragraphe B), demande ce qui se passera en cas de changement de gouvemement ou du President de la Chambre de Commerce. Elie veut savoir si la nouvelle personne peut nommer une autre personne de son choix.
91. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que l’article 6 repond aux inquietudes de M. Jimmy NICKLAM.
92. L’article 16 est approuve au vote.
93. L’article 17, « FREQUENCE DE REVISION », est approuve au vote.
94. L’article 18, « PERSONNES soumises A LA presente loi », est approuve au vote.
95. L’article 19, « soumissions au conseil », est approuve au vote.
96. L’article 20, « TAUX DE salaire minimum », est approuve au vote.
97. L’ article 21, « PQUVQIRS DU conseil », est approuve au vote.
98. L’article 22, « RAPPORT ANNUEL », est approuve au vote,
99. L’article 23, « CREDIT BUDGET AIRE A PREVOIR aux fins de la PRESENTE LOI », est approuve au vote.
100. L’article 24, « LOI PREDOMINANTE », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 25, DETERMINATIONS DU CONSEIL L’EMPORTENT SUR LES CONTRATS DE SERVICE EN CAS DE CONFLITS’
101. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, estime que si cet article prevaut qu’adviendra-t-il au contrat signe de bonne foi auparavant. Faut-il laisser au tribunal de trancher en dernier ressort. L’employe sous contrat doit-il renoncer a ses avantages contenus dans son contrat signe avant 1’entree en vigueur du Projet
37 de loi. Il y constate une injustice. A son avis, ce Projet de loi annule le contrat sans qu’il y ait de reparation de dommages.
102. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que les contrats seront honores ou feront l’objet d’une etude avant toutes decisions. Ce Projet de loi s’applique et tout conflit sera regie sei on la loi sur l’emploi.
103. L’article 25 est approuve au vote.
104. L’article 26, « consultation avec le conseil », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 27, DELFTS’
105. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, estime que les dispositions de cet article sont trop dures et risquent de faire peur aux personnes qualifiees de tenter d’occuper des postes importantes dans les organismes et societes etatiques. Les personnes qualifiees risquent de s’orienter vers les secteurs prives. Ces dispositions n’incitent pas les personnes qualifiees vers les societes et organismes parapubliques.
106. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, precise que ce Projet de loi permet, justement par sa durete, de reequilibrer les salaires selon les qualifications, dans la fonction publique et dans les organismes et societes etatiques. Il ne croit pas que ce Projet de loi va faire peur aux personnes qualifiees. Un nouveau Projet de loi permet de remunercr les personnes selon leurs qualifications. Le pays a deja perdu beaucoup de cerveaux qui fuient le pays pour trouver un meilleur salaire ailleurs. La police, 1’enseignemcnt, l’infirmerie, la marine offrent de mauvais salaires.
107. L’article 27 est approuve au vote.
108. L’article 28, « sanctions », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 29, ‘RECOUVREMENT DES PA1EMENTS EN TROP’
109. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, trouve qu’il a deux articles ‘29’ dans la version anglaise.
110. Le President lui demande de supprimer le premier numero ‘29’.
111. L’article 29 est approuve au vote.
112. L’article 30, « sauvegarde et validation », est approuve au vote.
113. L’Article 31, « entree en vigueur », est approuve au vote.
38 DEUXIEME LECTURE
114. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, propose que le Projet de loi soit lu une 2Sme fois et approuve.
115. La motion est approuvee par 31 voix et 15 abstentions.
116. La seance, suspendue a 15h21, reprend a 16h00.
PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 SUR L’ENTREPRISE DE L’AVIATION CIVILE
PREMIERE LECTURE
117. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation civile, presente le Projet de loi, en explique les motifs et en propose Fexamen en premiere lecture.
118. M. Joe Calo BOMAL, Depute d’Efate, soutient les principes du Projet de loi parce qu’il est conforme aux developpements qui se font dans les pays de la region dans le domaine de l’Aviation civile et qu’il permettra d’ameliorer les niveaux ou normes des aeroports du Vanuatu et en meme temps repondre aux normes intemationales.
119. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, soutient les principes du Projet de loi qui permettra d’dtablir une entreprise qui aura pour role de gerer les aeroports intemationaux du Vanuatu. 11 ajoute que les membres du Conseil d’administration de cette entreprise doivent etre des personnes vraiment competentes dans le domaine de Findustrie de l’Aviation Civile et qu’il nous faut aussi des ports d’entree et des infrastructures aeroportuaires qui repondent aux normes intemationales, ce qui attirera davantage de touristes dans le pays.
120. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, estime que c’est le president du Conseil d’Administration de FONT qui devrait etre aussi le president du Conseil d’administration de cette entreprise. Il ajoute que dans presque que tous les Projets de loi qu’on a adoptes au cours de ces trois sessions on trouve des Conseils d’administration et qu’il a en tout, quinze nouveaux postes deja sans compter le personnel supplementaire. Il estime que cela est contraire au Programme de Reforme Globale qui preconise beaucoup la reduction des depenses de l’Etat. Le depute demande si le gouvemement accordait des fonds pour constituer le capital de cette entreprise.
121. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, dit que la creation de cette entreprise allegera les taches pour le Service de l’Aviation Civile et que l’entreprise trouve elle-meme ses propres capitaux.
39 122. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, declare que la creation de cette entreprise est une initiative qui permet de privatiser certains services de l’Etat et que cela est une politique generate du gouvemement d’aujourd’hui qui est correcte dans ce sens qu’elle accordera une independance a cette entreprise qui operera comme une entreprise privee. 11 ajoute qu’on doit s’assurer que ces entreprises fonctionnent de fa^on rentable et cite le cas de FONT et de la CCI qui sont privatisees alors qu’ils beneficient encore des subventions de FEtat aujourd’hui. Le depute continue disant que la creation de cette entreprise se fait dans un contexte auquel celle-ci dependra beaucoup de son activite commerciale et qu’il faudra aussi s’assurer que le nombre des appareils ainsi que le nombre des passagers qui debarquent a Vanuatu croissenl en meme temps, d’ou la necessitc de renover nos aeroports en vue d’accroitre leurs capacites d’accueil des appareils tels que les B.747. Il conclut disant que le fait que nos aeroports ne peuvent pas accueillir de gros appareils minimise nos chances d’attirer davantage de touristes.
123. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, dit que nous avons plusieurs aeroports mais qu’ils ne tirent par profit directement des activites qui y ont lieu et que cette fois on con fie ces aeroports a cette entreprise parce qu’on sait qu’elle fera de Fargent grace aux diffcrentes activitds commerciales qui s’operent dans ces aeroports. Concemant les renovations des acroports, le Premier Ministre dit que les travaux de renovation de celui de Pekoa sont deja en cours alors que ceux de Bauerfield debuteront prochainement.
124. M. Joe NATUMAN, Ministre de l’Education, dit que trois services administratifs devraient etre privatises et ce Projet de loi suit tout a fait le meme ordre l’idee. II ajoute que le Service de FAviation Civile n’aura plus qu’un nombre restraint du personnel.
125. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, estime que l’idee de privatisation est une bonne idee, ce qui favorisera davantage la creation d’emploi et ajoute que plus il y a d’emplois, plus les gens travaillent.
126. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, remercie le gouvemement pour avoir eu l’initiative de presenter ce Projet de loi et soutient les principes du Projet de loi parce qu’il regit un domaine d’activite qui peut generer beaucoup de revenus pour l’Etat et demande si le gouvemement peut aussi revoir, pour Finteret de la nation, nos ports intemationaux.
127. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, dit que ce Projet de loi est pour nous une chance ou une solution pour bien gerer nos aeroports.
128. La seance est levee a 17h00.
40 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE
TROISIEME SESSION EXTRAORDINAIRE DE 1998
VENDREDI7 AOUT 1998
PRESIDENT M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute de Port-Vila.
PRESENT 35 Deputes
RETARD M. Joe B. CALO, Depute d’Efate M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila M. Esmon SAIMON, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jimmy IMBERT, Depute de Santo M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port Vila M. Donald KALPOKAS, Depute d’Efate M. Jean Alain MAHE, Depute de Santo M. Josias MOLI, Depute de Malo M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna M. Serge V. RIALUTH, Depute de Santo M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate M. Barnabas Andy TABI, Depute de Pentecote M. Jonas TABIKURAN, Depute de Pentecdte M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jackleen Ruben TITEK, Depute de Mallicolo M. George Andre WELLS, Depute de Luganville
L Le President du Parlement, ouvre la seance a 8h45.
2. M. John Tari MOLIBARAF, Depute de Santo, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce l’ordre du jour.
41 PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 SUR L’ENTREPRISE DE I/AVIATION CIVILE
PREMIERE LECTURE
4 M. Paul TELUKLUK, D epute de Mallicolo, dit que la reforme recommande la constitution en societe de service de l’aviation civile. Le Projet de loi a les memes idees que la loi sur la societe d’habitation nationale. Il cstime qu’il faut creer une societe semblable a toute autre societe commerciale. A son avis, la reforme reprime tout monopole. Il dit en outre qu’avec 1’aide de l’UE et Ausaid, le pays va construire et ameliorer les aeroports de Luganville et Port-Vila pour ne plus trop dependre de la Nouvelle Caledonie et l’Australie. Il craint que le Conseil d’administration ne comporte que de cadres politiques. Il se demande pourquoi les membres viennent du centre financier et du mini stere des finances.
5 M. Clement LEO, Ministre des Affaires Etrangeres, estime que le Projet de loi va dans le cadre de la reforme et n’a rien a voir avec le monopole. Il va rendre efficace l’exploitation des services de l’aviation civile. Le Conseil d’administration comprendra des gens ayant diverses experiences. Il accuse Paul Telukluk de vouloir mettre la charrue devant les baeufs.
6 M. Serge V. RIALUTH, Le chef de l’Opposition, estime que ce Projet de loi est tres important. Ce Projet de loi est difficile c’est pourquoi il cree de la confusion. La CFD et l’UE ne peuvent nous subventionner la renovation des aeroports que si ceux-ci sont privatises car le Vanuatu aurail du passer en janvier 1998 du pays le moins avancc au pays en developpcmeni. Les societes privees peuvent nous aider mais la c’est une autre histoire. Apres Pan 2000 le Vanuatu devrait sortir du groupc de pays les moins avances. II peut alors faire des emprunts. Certains ont peur de monopole mais c’est un systemc d£pass£, les aeroports a travers le monde sont privatises. 11 espere qu’une societe privee pourra gerer et moderniser et agrandir les adroports. Ce Projet de loi aurait pu etre approuve en 1997.
7. M. Foster RAKOM, Depute d’Efate, soutient le Projet de loi car il va promouvoir le developpement. Il repcte que I’agrandissement des aeroports risque de mettc en danger le village de Mde sur Efat6. 11 demande ce que fera le gouvemement en cas d’accident. Il aimerait qu’un nouvel aeroport international soit construit sur un autre site sur Efate, loin des lieux habites.
8. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, reconnait les inquietudes de M. Foster Rakom. Le gouvemement sera responsable de tout accident.
9. Le Projet de loi est approuve en premiere lecture par 28 voix et 15 abstentions.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
10. L’article 1, « OBJET », est approuve au vote.
42 11. L’Article 2, « definition », est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 3, ENTREPRISE DE I?AVIATION CIVILE’
12. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de TAviation Civile, modifie le paragraphe 3 (d) du texte anglais.
13. M. Josias MOLI, Depute de Malo, constate qu’aucune disposition ne prevoit le recrutement du personnel.
14. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, precise que le Conseil d’administration peut recruter selon le paragraphe 4. Il modifie l’alinea (c) du paragraphe 3.
15. Le President souleve une remarque concemant TArticle 3 (3) (c).
16. Le Secretaire General lit la version ffan^aise du texte.
17. M. Irenee Bongnaim LEINGKONE, Depute de Ambrym, demande Lavis du ministre des transports quant a Einterpretation de cet article.
18. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, repond que M. Irenee Bongnaim Leingkone a bien interprete l’article 3.
19. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, estime qu’il faut nommer au Conseil d’administration une personne du monde des affaires.
20. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, repond qu’evi dement ces societes sont bien Vanuataises car elles sont enregistrees dans le pays.
21. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, precise que les agents du service actuel de Laviation civil seront automatiquement employes dans la nouvelle societe car ils sont deja bien formes. Il rappelle que ce Projet de loi est provisoire et a ete prepare expressement pour obtenir l’aide fran^aise. Le secteur prive va participer a la gestion et 1’ exploitation des aeroports pour ameliorer les services offerts. Les societes hoteliers et touristiques engagent en fait beaucoup de Vanuatais.
22. M. Maxime C ARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, soutient cet article et estime qu’il faut inclure les deux societes aeriennes du pays dans le conseil d’administration.
23. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, repond qu’elles seront representees.
24. M. Joe NATUMAN, Ministre de 1’Education, precise que FONT et les societes aeriennes ne sont pas precises afin de ne pas creer un conflit d’interet.
43 25. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, estime qu*il faut y nommer les reptesentants des societes acriennes nationales afin de concentrer I’energie, ainsi il veut que les societes aeriennes s’engagent directement dans F exploitation des aeroports. II veut regrouper FONT, ie gouvemement et Air Vanuatu afin de ne pas multiplier le travail. Il craint que les dispositions actuelles risquenl de ne pas faire avancer les choses.
26. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, reconnait l’avis de M. Carlot mais le gouvemement a decide autrement pour eviter tout conflit d’interet. Le Projet de loi ne doit se concentrer que sur la securite des avions.
27. M. James BULE, Ministre du Commerce, precise qu’il appartient au ministre de l’aviation civile de nommer qui il veut, mais il prefere 6viter tout conflit d’intdret. Les aeroports doivent contribuer a l’attraction des touristes.
28. M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo, estime que le service de l’aviation civile sera privatise mais il ne voit pas comment seront nommes les membres du Conseil d’administration.
29. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, estime qu’une societe etrangere viendra gerer les aeroports nationaux et former les gens du pays en vue de la releve locale.
30. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de 1’Aviation Civile, repond a M. Jacob Thyna que les nominations seront faites selon le paragraphe 4.
31. M. Jean Alain MAHE, Depute de Santo, demande si la personne nommee en vertu de l’alinea (e) paragraphe 3 reptesente le gouvemement.
32. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, tepond que cette personne ne viendra pas forcement de la Fonction publique. Elie peut venir de l’exterieur de 1’ administration.
33. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, estime que le gouvemement devrait nommer une personne qualifiee comme membre du Conseil d’Administration de cette entreprise.
34. M Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de 1’Aviation Civile, rassure le depute Telukluk disant que le gouvemement tachera de nommer une personne qualifiee dans le domaine de 1*Aviation Civile pour le representer au Conseil d’Administration de cette entreprise.
35. M. Irenee Bongnaim LEINGKONE, Depute de Ambrym, demande comment le president du Conseil d’ Administration de cette entreprise sera nomine.
44 36. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, dit que les membres du Conseil d’Administration eliront leur president.
37. L’article 3, « entreprise de l’aviation civile », est approuve au vote.
38. L’article 4, « repartition des attributions entre l’entreprise et le service ». est approuve au vote.
39. L’article 5, « fonctions et responsabilites de l’entreprise », est approuve au vote.
40. L’article 6, « fonctions et responsabilites du service », est approuve au vote.
41. L’article 7, « decrets d’application », est approuvd au vote.
42. L’article 8, « MODIFICATIONS CONSEOUENTES », est approuve au vote.
43. L’article 9, « entree en vigueur », est approuve au vote.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
44. M. Stanley REGINALD, Ministre de l’Aviation Civile, propose que le Projet de loi soit lu une deuxieme fois et approuve.
45. La motion portant approbation finale du Projet de loi est adoptee par 24 voix avec 12 abstentions.
46. Le P resident d u p arlement annonce q ue 1 a s eance d evrait etre ajoumee j usqu’a lundi puisque certains deputes n’ont pas la copie du prochain Projet de loi a ddbattre.
47. M. B arak T. S OPE, D epute d ’Efate, e stime q ue 1 e 1 undi e st t rop 16t p arce q ue certains deputes n’ont pas encore re^u les Projets de loi.
48. M. Paul Ren TARI, Le chef du groupe de majorite, dit que le Projet de loi en question a ete distribue le 4 aout et espere que l’opposition ne se sert pas de cette excuse pour prolonger la session.
49. M. Sato KILMAN, Depute de Mallicolo, estime que les propos du Chef de file du groupe majoritaire sont insenses et ajoute que le gouvemement devrait s’assurer que les Projets de loi soient distribues aux deputes a la date appropnee.
50. La seance est levee a 1 lhOO.
45 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
SIXIEME LEGISLATURE 4
TROISIEME SESSION EXTRAORDINAIRE DE 1998
MARDI11 AOUT 1998
PRESIDENT M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute de Port-Vila
PRESEN 37 Deputes
RETARD M. Daniel BANGTOR, Depute de Ambrym M. Vincent BOULEK.ONE, Depute de Pentecdie M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila M, Esmon SA1MON, Depute de Mallicolo M. Silas HAKWA, Depute de Ambae M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila M. Sato K1LMAN, Depute de Mallicolo M- Walter FL LIN I, Depute de Pentecote k M. Philip PASW, Ddput£ de Santo M. Willy POSEN, Depute de Tanna M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Depute de Santo M. Jacques SESE, Depute de Ambae M. John Tari MOL1BARAF, Depute de Santo M, Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo M. Jacob THYNA, Depute de Mallicolo M. George Andre WELLS, Depute de Luganville,
1. M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, President du parlement, ouvre la seance a 8h45.
2. M. Henry YAUKO, Depute de Tanna, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce l’ordre du jour.
46 PROJET DE LOI NO DE 1998 SUR L’UNITE DE GESTION DU CONTENTIEUX
PREMIERE LECTURE
4. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, presente le Projet de loi et en expose les motifs et en propose l’examen en premiere lecture.
5. M. Barak T. SOPE, Depute d’Efate, estime que ce Projet de loi n’est pas depose conformement au Reglement Interieur et qu’il faut respecter la transparence tant prechee par le gouvemement dans le cadre de la reforme et de la bonne administration. Les deputes devraient en principe recevoir leur Projet de loi 15 jours avant de 1’etudier. Ce Projet de loi est tres important pour la reforme. Selon la reforme, il faudrait reduire de 10 a 15% du personnel de la Fonction publique alors que les nouveaux Projets de loi comme celui-ci entraineront 1’augmentation du nombre de fonctionnaires. Il reconnait la situation que doit resoudre le gouvemement par ce Projet de loi pendant une periode de 5 ans. Il craint qu’a la fin de la reforme on ne reduise pas mais on augmente le nombre de fonctionnaires. A son avis, certains Directeurs generaux de plus en plus surcharges par les nouvelles lois risquent a l’avenir de n’assister qu’aux reunions. Les montants tres eleves des arrieres des societes etatiques sont alarmants. Il cite en plus du cas la NBV, BDV, CNPV, celui de l’OCPV qui risque de tomber en faillite en cas de la chute de la production des prix des produits de base. Il reconnait que les banques nationales aident beaucoup les zones rurales mais les gens ne peuvent pas rembourser leurs emprunts a cause du manque de developpement economique. Il craint que les experts etrangers ne comprennent pas les Vanuatais.
6. M. Walter H. LINI, Ministre de l’lnterieur, soutient le Projet de loi qui est presente dans le cadre de la reforme qui couvre la fonction publique et les organismes et societes etatiques. La reforme vise a rentabiliser ces organismes et societes tout comme la fonction publique. Tout le monde doit se preoccuper de la remise en bonne marche de ces organismes et societes. Le gouvemement a decidd de fusionner la BDV et la NBV et creer l’UGC pour gerer les mauvaises creances. Il faut decider si les experts constituent en fin de compte de bonnes ressources ou non. Il ne serf a rien d’aboutir a un echec. Il doute de la reussite de ces projets. Il y a quelques anndes des experts sont venues gerer la BDV et la NBV mais n’ont rien produit de positif. Il estime qu’il faut reetudier avec soin nos institutions financieres. Il craint que les futurs experts qui viendront gerer la nouvelle entite ne reussiraient pas a faire fonctionner. Les postes Vanuatises non plus n’ont rien produit de positif. Tout l’argent depense sur les experts depuis 1’independance n’a ete qu’une perte. Il est reexports a l’etranger. Il se demande encore si la fusion etait un avantage ou un inconvenient. Les mauvaises creances font partie de la quantite d’une banque. Il faut gerer avec soin cette unite et faire en sorte que l’unite reussisse son objectif autrement ce ne sera qu’un echec. Il invite tous les deputes a prendre la parole pour avoir une vue sur nos institutions financieres afin
47 d’eviter de les perdre. Il se demande si les ffais de la gestion de ne contentieux n’etaient pas inferieurs aux creances en soufffance.
7. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, soutient ce Projet de loi car il permettra d’eviter de tomber dans de nouveaux pieges. A son avis, cette unite ne sera qu’une multiplication d’organismes qui font le meme travail que les societes financieres. Cette unite fera 50% des travaux de la nouvelle entite bancaire et de la CNPV. Il demande ce que signifient les bonnes creances et les mauvaises creances. Il se demande comment est-ce que Walter H. Lini ne comprend rien ou a des doutes, et s’il a participe au Conseil des ministres. A son avis, M. Lini devait s’informer au gouvemement sur le recrutement des experts. A son avis, les directives du gouvemement adressees aux organismes et societes etatiques ne sont pas des ingerences. Il se demande pourquoi la BDA doit venir faire la reforme a la place des Vanuatais. Les Vanuatais sont qualifies pour occuper des postes de direction dans les nouvelles entites creees. Les experts ne doivent que conseiller. Il demande au Chef d’Opposition d’expliquer si le recrutement des experts fait partie des conditions d’emprunt a la BDA. Il espere que les Vanuatais prendront les directions de nouvelles entites a creer par les nouvelles lois. A son avis il n’existe aucune bonne et mauvaise creance. Une banque n’annule une creance qu’a la mort du debiteur. Il craint que les experts etrangers qui n’ont pas fait avancer le pays ces 18 demieres annees re reviennent faire la meme chose.
8. M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Le chef de l’Opposition, estime que les principes de ce Projct de loi sont bases sur la fa?on dont nous avons gere nos patrimoines dans le passe. II ajoute que les creances irrecouvrables resultent des credits obtenus sous garantie des emprunteurs, du copinage et des ingerences politiques du gouvemement dans le syst&me d’octroi des credits. Il dit aussi que pour bien gerer nos biens ou patrimoines, les dirigcants politiques ne doivent pas licencier les directeurs des societes statutaires qui sont les personnes qualiflees et appropriees pour e tre a 1 a t ete d e c es s ocietes. Il conclut q ue n ous d evons n ous p asser d es experts et nommer seulement le personnel local aux postes de directeurde nos societes statutaires.
9. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il apprecie les commentaires qui sont faits et ajoute que cette loi est une solution ou une strategie qui nous permettra de mettre fin a la chute de nos societes statutaires et recouvrer les creances irrecouvrables. Mais pour cela, il faut une injection de nouveaux fonds, une bonne gestion et le probleme c’est que nous n’avons pas du personnel qualifie. C’est pourquoi il faut recrulcr a Fetranger mais seulement pour une periode de deux ans. Il conclut disant que le role de TUnite du contentieux est de faire recouvrer les creances irrecouvrables ou de recuperer tout ce qui est encore r^cuperable.
10. Le P resident d u p arlement r appelle q ue c haque i ntervenant d oit s eulement s ’en tenir aux principes du Projet de loi et non pas faire des commentaires qui sont hors sujet.
48 11. La seance suspendue a 10h40, reprend a 11 hl 5.
12. M. Sato KILMAN, Depute de Mallicolo, dit que ces dettes sont regies par les clauses d’un contrat qui stipule ou exigent la saisie des personnes qui sont censees assumer le responsabilites ou roles que la presente loi attribuee a cette Unite.
13. M. Jimmy NICKLAM, Depute de Tanna, dit que la BDV et la BNV ont chacune leurs propres roles alors qu’on veut les fusionner sans tenir compte de leurs roles qui sont differentes. Il dit aussi que ces creances irrecouvrables resultent des ingerences politiques au sein de Tadministration de ces deux banques, de la mauvais gestion et que si on veut ameliorer la situation on doit bien etre conscient du role de chacune avant de les fusionner. Il ajoute que la fusion des deux banques n’est qu’une solution a court terme mais il faut une solution a long terme.
14. La seance, suspendue a 1 lh30, reprend a 14hl5.
15. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, declare son interet pour la loi car il a egalement des dettes envers les societes dont les creances font Fobjet du Projet de loi. Il declare n’avoir enfreint aucune legislation quand il etait en fonction. Il regrette que le gouvemement aille recniter d’ experts a Fetranger qui risquent de ne pas remettre en marches ces sociEtEs. Il demande quelle est la cause du manque de remboursement des emprunts des personnes morales ou physiques. A son avis, le gouvemement doit recuperer les bi ens des emprunteurs et les revendre mais ne resoudra pas la question de creances qui existeront etemellement. Comment FUGC va resoudre la situation en deux ans ? Il doute que l’UGC n’atteigne son objectif. Les emprunteurs ont des raisons justifiables de ne pas pouvoir rembourser leurs dettes aux institutions financieres. Il faut d’abord resoudre la question de developpement economique avant de penser a confisquer les biens des debiteurs. Les pressions politiques sont minimes par rapport a l’incapacite de remboursement. Il faut d’abord ameliorer la situation Economique. Il invite le Parlement a rejeter le Projet de loi et demander a la BDA d’injecter 300 millions respectivement a la BDV et a la NVC. A son avis, il n’y a pas de bonnes et mauvaises c rEances. D e p lus c ertains e mprunts sont g arantis p ar d es p roprietEs immobilieres. Les mauvaises creances sont celles accordEes a Pourquoi Pacifique, la Brasserie nationale etc. Il accuse le ministre de ne pas pouvoir citer des societes comme AGC qui empruntent a la CNPV et repretent aux particuliers. A son avis, le pret a l’UGC est inutile. Les institutions financieres ne doivent confisquer que des biens pour non remboursement d’emprunts. Il soutient qu’il en a fait F experience quand la NBV lui a meme confisque des immeubles. Il estime qu’il ne sert a rien de recruter des experts et creer FUGC. Les banques ont deja cree des sections de nettoyage. Il accuse le ministre de publier des postes avant 1’approbation de ce Projet de loi. Il accuse le gouvemement de vouloir confisquer les maisons payees par le CNPV et les revendre aux blancs et asiatiques. Il estime que le gouvemement a un plan secret. Il remarque qu’il faut retirer les Projets de
49 loi et approfondir des etudes de faisabilite car le gouvemement risque de revendre le pays aux etrangers.
16. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, indique qu’en principe la BDV ne devait pas femier. 11 veut souligner que beaucoup de prcts de la BDV sont bien rembourses et contribuent beaucoup au developpement economique. Le Projet de loi vise a resoudre la situation financiere de la BDV, NBV, CNPV. Les societes non mentionnes ont emprunte mais ont bien rembourse leurs emprunts. Le gouvemement a verse des sommes importantes A la CNPV. Il est done charge de resoudre la situation financiere des institutions financieres. Beaucoup de personnes ont deja profite des emprunts mais n’ont pas encore rembourse leurs dettes. Il est parfois difficile de confisquer des biens immeublcs en milieu rural, Dans le cadre de la reforme, il faut etudier la possibility de rendre hypothecables les terres en zones rurales. Ce Projet de loi permet de remettre en marche les institutions financieres. Il reconnait la multiplication de postes mais LUGC ne vit que pendant cinq ans. L’offre d’emploi des postes est close le 15 aout. Il regrette de prendre cette mesure mais le pays n’a pas le choix a court terme, Il assure que le gouvemement n’a aucun plan secret. Certains cas de dettes seront regies en douceur, d’autres aboutiront au tribunal. Il invite les hautes autorites et fonctionnaires & donner Lexemple de remboursement afm d’obliger les petits emprunteurs a rembourser leurs dettes. Il souligne en outre que la reforme permet d’arret er l’ingerence politique dans les decisions des Directeurs des organismes et societes etatiques. Il ne veut pas mentionner ceux qui ont emprunte aux institutions financieres. Il assure les bons payeurs de ne pas s’inquieter.
17. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Premier Ministre, apprecie les interventions des divers deputes. Le gouvemement doit faire en sorte que le secteur prive fonctionne mieux. Il faut encore beaucoup de temps avant que le Vanuatu ait des gens • qualifies pour remplacer des experts etrangers. II reconnait q u’il faut reviser 1 a situation des organismes ou societes Etatiques. Le gouvemement porte la garantie de fonds et epargnes de la CNPV ou NBV. Il doit done y injecter de Largent pour leur donner des coups de pouce. Il rappelle que ce Projet de loi permet de gerer les mauvaises dettes que les gens ne peuvent plus rembourser. Ce Projct de loi ne touchera pas les bons payeurs. Il permettra de confisquer ct revendre les biens de mauvais payeurs et recupere Largent des institutions financieres. II faut eviter au gouvemement d’engager dans de nouvelles creances.
18. M. Maxime CARLOT, Depute de Port-Vila, remercie le gouvemement des explications. Mais il rejette les termes fran^ais de ‘prets douteux' car ils ont un sens pejoratif. Il estime que le gouvemement aussi doit regler sa dette aupres de ces institutions financieres. A son avis l’UGC doit confisquer les biens des personnes n’ayant pas rembourse leurs emprunts a la CNPV ou BDV et NBV. Il estime qu’il faut reprendre les emprunts annules et reetudier leur remboursement. Il demande au gouvemement de modifier la loi de la CNPV pour interdire tout emprunt a la CNPV par le gouvemement.
50 19. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, affirme que les anciens emprunts annules seront repris. Il donne l’exemple de Pourquoi Pacifique, la Brasserie nationale. Le gouvemement etudie la loi sur la CNPV et prevoit d’annuler tout emprunt. Il serait prevu de reinvestir les fonds a l’etranger comme Font fait Tuvalu et Kiribati. Ils peuvent aussi servir a 1’achat des obligations d’etat.
20. Le Projet de loi est approuve en Premiere lecture par 26 voix et 15 abstentions.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
21. L’Article 1, « OBJET », est approuve au vote.
22. L’Article 2, « DEFINITION », est approuve au vote.
23. L’article 3, « CREATION DE L’UNITE DE GESTION DU CONTENTIEUX », est approuve au vote.
24. L’article 4, « conseil d’administration du contentieux » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 5, FONCTIONS DU CONTENTIEUX’
25. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande quant aux fonctions, comment l’UGC va faire regler les 200 millions de vatu par la NBV a la CNPV. Comment la societe d’habitation va rembourser sa dette de 50 millions de vatu. Elie ne peut rembourser en immeuble.
26. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, repond que la CNPV va preter 190 millions de vatu a la NBV. Il y aura une operation de transfer!. L’UGC pourrait laisser A la NBV le choix des moyens de se faire rembourser. Quant a la societe d’habitation, sa subvention sera transferee a la NBV.
27. L’article 5 est approuve au vote.
28. L’article 6, « POUVOIRS DU CONTENTIEUX » est approuve au vote.
51 ARTICLE 7, ‘FONCTIONNEMENT DU CONTENTIEUX’
29. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande quel chapitre budgetaire va couvrir l’UGC. Il estime qu’il sera preferable de fmancer l’etablissement de l’UGC par une partie de l’emprunt a la BDA.
30. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit que le budget de l’Unite de Gestion du Contentieux est prevu dans le budget de 98 et qu’il a commence a operer a partir du 3 juillet et que son budget est de 40.000.000 VT.
31. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, demande des clarifications au sujet du paragraphe 8) de l’article 7.
32. M. Sela MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il y aura des accords sur les biens saisis et que cette Unite doit s’assurer que le maximum doit etre recupere et que seulement le solde reviendra a l’emprunt ou proprietaire du bien en question.
33. L’article 7 est approuve au vote.
34. La seance suspendue a 15h35, reprend a 16h30.
35. L’article 8, « dissolution du contentieux », est approuve au vote.
36. L’article 9, « administrateur directeur general », est approuve au vote.
37. L’article 10, « PERSONNEL DU CONTENTIEUX », est approuve au vote.
38. L’article 11, « plan de redressement », est approuve au vote.
39. L’article 12, « modifications en consequences », est approuve au vote.
40. L’article 13, « effet DU transfert », est approuve au vote.
41. L’article 14, « notification des clients », est approuve au vote.
42. L’article 15, « frais et couts afferents au transfert >k est approuve au vote.
43. L’article 16, « dispositions transitoires », est approuve au vote.
44. L’article 17, « decrets d’application », est approuve au vote.
45. L’article 18, « entree en vigueur », est approuve au vote.
52 DEUXIEME LECTURE
46. M. Salo MOLISA, Ministre des Finances, propose que le Projet de loi soit lu une deuxieme fois et approuve.
47. La motion portant approbation finale du Projet de loi en deuxieme lecture est approuvee par 25 voix contre 15.
48. M. Sato KILMAN, Depute de Mallicolo, fait appel au Reglement Interieur 12 (3) et fait remarquer au president du parlement qu’il n’a pas encore convoque la deuxieme session ordinaire alors qu’on est deja A la mi-aodt.
49. Le President du parlement dit que d’apres 1’interpretation du Bureau 1’Attorney general, la deuxieme session ordinaire peut commencer A tout moment au mois d’aoflt et qu’il espere que le Comite de Revision du Reglement Interieur a tenu compte de cette remarque.
50. La troisi&me session extraordinaire est cldturge A 16hl5.
53