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Please Find Herein the Results of the Decision Meeting for the August Iloi Held on October 25, 2009

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Please Find Herein the Results of the Decision Meeting for the August Iloi Held on October 25, 2009 Please find herein the results of the decision meeting for the August ILoI held on October 25, 2009. Unto the Ansteorran College of Heralds does Lady Katrine la Esclopiera, sends Greetings. I would like to thank all you who commented this month. The new online commentary system for the Ansteorra College of Heralds has, I believe, been a great success. If you are interested in participating all you need to do is register at this web site: http://hcs.randomcasts.com/. HCS is a Ruby on Rails application written and maintained by Lord Reis ap Tuder of Mooneschadowe You can still send commentary directly to me at [email protected] . For information on commentary submission formats or to receive a copy of the collated commentary, you can contact me at: Irena Fridenberg 114 West Husband Court Stillwater OK 74075 405-788-0042 (before 9:30 pm please) [email protected] Commenters for this issue: Alasdair MacEogan (Bordure) Magnus Alden Drake (Sable Roundel) Da'ud ibn Auda (al-Jamal Herald) Tostig Logiosophia Coblaith Muimnech (Orbis Herald) Emma de Fetherstan (Star) Gawain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor Herald) Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada (Rowel) Eirik Halfdanarson Ioannes Dalassenos Estrill Swet (Asterisk) Isabel de Barton 1. Ælfwyn Webbestre. (Elfsea, Barony of) New Badge. Argent, a weaving tablet purpure Comment by Alasdair MacEogan (Bordure) on 2009/07/29 18:53:11: Hmm. Can we say shades of Czina Angielczyka, (Fieldless) A weaver's tablet purpure, charged with a half-moon knife argent. , from the November 2008 ILoI? Blazon fu: Should be Argent, a square weaver's tablet purpure. To date we do not know the fate of Czina's badge as it has yet to be published, though it should be before the decision meeting. Assuming it passed we get 1 CD for the field and 1 CD for removing the half-moon knife. (RfS X.4.i) Comment by Magnus on 2009/08/21 23:46:20: Last edited on 2009/08/29 17:45:17 Czina's badge will come out in the next LoAR (May) to be released. Hopefully, that will rule on any issues with the weaver's tablet but I don't think this submission has any problems. No conflicts were found through current submissions. Czina's badge was registered without comment so that should clear up issues with the weaver's tablet. Comment by Alden Drake (Sable Roundel) on 2009/08/04 14:37:31: I didn't find any conflicts. I have a minor concern about identifiability, but that's mainly because I suspect non-heralds aren't likely to realize that a die is actually drawn in 3-D in heraldry. I could see someone looking at this and guessing it's a purple die showing the number four. College Action: Badge: Reblazoned as “Argent, a square weaver's tablet purpure.” and forwarded to Laurel. 2. Æsileif Geirfinnsdóttir. (Elfsea, Barony of) New Name and Device. Argent, on a dragon sergeant purpure a rose argent. Comment by Da'ud ibn Auda (al-Jamal Herald) on 2009/07/28 14:35:19: As I would normally expect from the blazon to see the rose more centrally located on the dragon's torso and wing, should we reblazon this as, "Argent, a dragon segreant purpure charged on the shoulder with a rose argent"? Comment by Tostig Logiosophia on 2009/07/29 23:38:08: Last edited on 2009/08/01 14:16:53 [Device] Concur with al-Jamal's reblazon. Have seen "on the shoulder" specified several time in Foster, especially with lions. This seems at least 2 CD clear versus "Argent, a unicorn-headed dragon, with lion's forepaws, segreant purpure, armed and orbed Or, tail to base entwined about a garb sable." (Megwyn of Glendwry, Device, July 1983, re-registered 8505C). Even if there's no CD between the two monsters, removal of the garb sable should provide the 2nd CD. Also seems X2 clear versus "Argent, on a cross fleury purpure, a rose argent." (Rayne Louveciennes, Device, April 1988) etc. Comment by Coblaith Muimnech (Orbis Herald) on 2009/08/01 06:14:40: If the submitter would like us to make giving her a name that sounds the way she thinks the submitted name does a priority, she should've told us what she thinks it sounds like. Comment by Alden Drake (Sable Roundel) on 2009/08/04 14:29:06: I found no conflicts. I also concur with reblazoning to indicate the dragon is charged on the shoulder with the rose. Comment by Magnus on 2009/08/22 13:57:27: Last edited on 2009/08/22 14:30:49 [Name] No conflicts found through current submissions. [Device] Blazon as: "Argent, a dragon purpure charged on the shoulder with a rose argent." Sadly, this device conflicts with both: Megwyn of Glendwry July of 1983 (via Caid): "Argent, a unicorn-headed dragon, with lion's forepaws, segreant purpure, armed and orbed Or, tail to base entwined about a garb sable." AND Giesele Hildegaard of the Mystic Dragon April of 1984 (via Caid): "Argent, a lion-tailed, fire-breathing sea dragon erect purpure." [September 2003 LoAR, R-Meridies] "Conn Draca. Device. Argent, a dragon and a chief embattled purpure. Conflict with Megwyn of Glendwry, Argent, a unicorn-headed dragon, with lion's forepaws, segreant purpure, armed and orbed Or, tail to base entwined about a garb sable. There is one CD for adding the chief. Prior precedent notes that there isn't difference between a dragon and a unicorn-headed dragon with lion's forepaws: "[A dragon vs. a unicorn-headed dragon with lion's forepaws] The visual similarities of the dragon and [the other] monster (changes to head and forepaws only) are simply too great [for there to be a CVD]" (LoAR January 1991 p.24). This also conflicts with a badge of Giesele Hildegaard of the Mystic Dragon, Argent, a lion-tailed, fire- breathing sea dragon erect purpure. There is one CD for adding the chief. On visual inspection, the lion-tailed, fire-breathing sea dragon is indistinguishable from a wyvern, when one considers the various ways in which wyverns were drawn in period. Because the lion-tailed, fire-breathing sea dragon cannot be distinguished from a wyvern in any meaningful fashion, and dragons are not given difference from wyverns, the dragon in this submission obtains no difference from this monster." Comment by Tostig Logiosophia on 2009/08/23 17:11:22: [Device] Good Precedent find, Magnus. Versus Megwyn I had a 2nd CD for removal of the garb -- visualizing it as a maintained secondary charge. Versus House Mystic Dragon i had a 2nd CD for change of type from dragon to sea-dragon -- which are listed as separate categories of Monsters in the Index to the SCA Ordinary and Armorial. Comment by Magnus on 2009/08/23 21:44:42: If the precedent was an old one I would say send it to Laurel but there isn't much chance a 2003 ruling on a visual conflict will get reversed. College Action: Name: Forwarded to Laurel. Device: Returned for conflict with [Megwyn of Glendwry July of 1983 (via Caid): "Argent, a unicorn- headed dragon, with lion's forepaws, segreant purpure, armed and orbed Or, tail to base entwined about a garb sable."] and [Giesele Hildegaard of the Mystic Dragon April of 1984 (via Caid): "Argent, a lion-tailed, fire-breathing sea dragon erect purpure."]. Versus Megwyn, there is not a CD between A dragon vs. a unicorn-headed dragon with lion's forepaws. Versus Giesele it was previously ruled that a lion-tailed, fire-breathing sea dragon is indistinguishable from a wyvern which is not granted a CD against a dragon. 3. Ana Maria de Cerdanya. (Northkeep, Barony of) New Badge. (Fieldless) On a cross of Cerdaña argent a tortoise vert Comment by Da'ud ibn Auda (al-Jamal Herald) on 2009/07/28 14:38:32: "Some commenters asked whether the cross of Cerdaña should continue to be allowed in SCA armory, because it is an SCA-invented charge without a strong pattern of SCA use. The cross of Cerdaña is listed in the Pictorial Dictionary as an "SCA invention; it's essentially a square set on one corner, with a semi-circular notch on each side." This description makes the cross sound much less period than it appears. The cross of Cerdaña is a minor artistic variant of a cross clechy, which is a standard period cross. We therefore see no reason to disallow the continued registration of this type of cross." (LoAR July 2002, p. 1) Comment by Tostig Logiosophia on 2009/07/29 23:53:13: [Administrative] Can a charge be drawn throughout on a fieldless badge? [Badge] Seems at least 2 CD clear versus "Counter-ermine, on a cross moline argent a wolf's head erased vert." (Ranulf of Wolfshaven, Device, July 1991). Even if the cross isn't simple enough to be voided to get a CD for change of tertiary type via X4j(ii), this cross seems a CD different from a cross moline. Comment by Alden Drake (Sable Roundel) on 2009/08/04 14:46:18: I would say no, a charge cannot be drawn throughout on a fieldless badge. While the points of the cross touch the badge limit lines, I wouldn't describe it as throughout since the cross doesn't use an edge of the badge box as a defining line of the cross. Comment by Da'ud ibn Auda (al-Jamal Herald) on 2009/08/05 17:17:31: It can certainly be _drawn_ to touch the sides of the space allotted for the emblazon on the forms; you cannot have a "throughout" charge on a fieldless badge because since there is no field, there is no edge to the field.
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