Oral History of DanceAfrica, D.C. Transcript

Interviewee: Akua F. Kouyate-Tate

Interviewer: Sylvia Soumah

Date: August 13, 2018

Description:

Akua Kouyate speaks about and reflects on the important role that dance has played in her life and the importance of DanceAfrica and other programs that connect African-Americans to traditional and contemporary styles of African dance. She speaks about growing up and going to Washington, D.C. public schools. She discovered AfricanDance at a community organization in Southeast Washington, D.C. She developed her interest in dance while a student at Boston University, and continued to study dance after transferring to American University. She speaks about transitioning to making the arts and dance into a career. She had to learn business management skills, as well as how to be a teacher. She has taught at universities around Washington D.C. Throughout her oral history it is clear that dance has been an integral part of her life. She tries to focus on both traditional and contemporary style of dance because “Culture is not static.” Experience traveling in travel and how it shaped her. Believes that African traditions are traditions that African Americans are also born into. For this reason, her family practiced Islam and African and African- American traditions. The youth summer employment program as key to her work as a dance teacher

Biography:

Akua Kouyate-Tate is Vice President of Education at Wolf Trap Center for the Preforming Arts. She grew-up in Washington, D.C. and attended D.C. Public Schools. She then attended Boston University, and earned a BA from American University. She has been involved in promoting, preforming, and teaching African styles of dance in Washington, D.C. for decades.

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Interview:

Sylvia Soumah: [00:00:00] My name is Sylvia Soumah. I'm head of the African dance program here at Dance Place. I'm here with Mama Akua Kouyate. And she's gonna. talk to you about the history of African dance in the Washington D.C. area. Mama Akua, would you introduce yourself?

Akua Kouyate: [00:00:15] Hello Sylvia. Nice to see you again. I am Mama Akua. That's what you call me. And that's what a lot of people in the community call me. I'm Akua Kouyate-Tate and I am a Washingtonian. I've been living here all of my life and I'm really glad to be a part of this process.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:00:34] I'm going to start by, um, so you're a Washingtonian. I want you to tell me what area did you grow up in? What school? Elementary school, high school. And then how did you get into dance? And so let's start there.

Akua Kouyate: [00:00:47] Okay. I was born at Freedmen's Hospital, which some people may not know is probably where the, uh, now part of Howard University I believe. Um, I went to Maury Elementary School, Eliot Junior High School, and Eastern High School. So I've been in D.C. P.S. the whole time, I grew up in Northeast D.C., however, I have family in Southeast D.C. and then in the surrounding area. So I've been a part of the D.C. fabric for a very long time. I've actually lived in Northeast, Southeast, and Northwest. I have not lived in Southwest, um, since I've been in D.C. I actually started dancing in high school at Eastern High School when they had an outreach program at the Friendship House and that was my first experience of African dance. Where I studied with Mama Pat Garris and she was working with Andrew Caucho and that was my very first experience of African dance in Washington D.C.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:02:00] Wow. So, did you ever study any other dance forms besides African before you started African?

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Akua Kouyate: [00:02:05] Yes, I studied modern dance in high school with Patricia Dodd. I don't know if many people know her, but she was my first modern dance teacher at Eastern High School. This is back in the early seventies, very early seventies.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:02:26] So after high school, um, what did you, when you started African dance, you said you started with Andrew Caucho and Pat Garris? And where did you guys, uh, do those classes at?

Akua Kouyate: [00:02:38] We started at Friendship House, which was a community space over in Southeast D.C. Um, the, the building is still there, it's obviously now changed, to condos I believe, but it was a great community space. And what was really interesting at that time and many people don't realize this, is that a D.C. public schools really offered opportunities for young people to study the arts all the way around.

Akua Kouyate: [00:03:07] So I chose to study dance, but there were other courses, photography and music, etc. And the public schools had a wonderful partnership with community organizations. So we had the arts both in school as well as having the arts out of school. I also had music courses from elementary school on through high school. Um, one of my music teachers who I still know and I'm very fond of, her name is, and I should say her full name, and I'm going to say that in a minute, but I'm blanking... Mama, Mrs. Yvette Hull. She was a music teacher with D.C. public schools for many, many years and I am still in connection with her today. She's a wonderful woman, so all of that to say the arts have always been a part of my life in education and of course like many African American families, connected to the church. We were part of the African Methodist Episcopal Church and that meant being a part of the choir and doing activities there and so I actually danced at church too.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:04:19] So after high school, what did you decide to do?

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Akua Kouyate: [00:04:24] I first went to school in Boston at Boston University and like many students I was kinda, I was undecided. However, I continued to take dance classes. I took modern dance classes, jazz classes. I took classes in the community, so I took African dance classes in Boston and then at a point I realized that dance is really what I wanted to do. So my first big experience as a young adult as a college student to decide that I wanted to go to dance was to go to American Dance Festival. At that time it was in Connecticut, New London, Connecticut at Connecticut college, and that is where I first met Baba Chuck Davis.

Akua Kouyate: [00:05:14] That was my first time meeting him. So I was in college and that was the first time I took classes.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:05:20] And what year was that when you met Baba Chuck Davis? Do you remember?

Akua Kouyate: [00:05:24] That was probably around '76. I believe it was 1976. I might be off on that, but I think that's around the time. And of course it was amazing. He was the first one, even though I had already started taking African dance and I was dancing a lot. He was the first one who made me realize the true connection between the music and the dance and that dance had messages and the music had meaning and that together they had many, many meetings and you had to listen to the music in order to be able to truly dance. And so, um, that was an amazing experience for me and I've known him. I knew him ever since and uh, felt really, really close to him. He was my teacher, my mentor, my children call him Uncle, he was my advisor, and so that was really meaningful for me.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:06:23] And so after college, once you graduated, what did you do?

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Akua Kouyate: [00:06:28] I actually transferred from Boston to American University. That's where I finished my undergraduate degree at American University. And throughout that time I continued to take classes in the community with Andrew Caucho, with Tyrone Murray, who was at that time working with Andrew and I danced a little while with Ethnic Dance Ensemble, which was a ensemble, the board together, dances of multiple ethnicities in the D.C. metro area. So we did all types of dance, modern, we did contemporary, we did dances that were influenced by, um, Latin American cultures, from South America, other places. Um, I continued to take classes and then I started dancing with Melvin Deal.

Akua Kouyate: [00:07:27] So I decided to move on and I started dancing with Melvin Deal's company and I did that for a few years and that was again, another experience, a wonderful experience because not only were you dancing with the company but you were meeting people in the community and really being a part of that, I need to go back a little bit. I'm going a little in circles because you're helping me to reflect. But in that time with Andrew, I certainly had um, music experiences with Baba Ngoma, you know, him as Carol Joyner. He was a major influence on African Dance and, and diaspora, music in the Washington D.C. metro area. And so he was of course, one of the teachers as well. Um, as I said, I then started with Melvin and I danced with Melvin for about three years. It was when I was with Melvin that I had my first experience seeing the National Ballet of Senegal.

Akua Kouyate: [00:08:27] Some people know it's a national dance company in Senegal. And I met my first husband in a very brief, very brief moment, he was getting on the elevator riding up to Melvin's studio. And the company was being hosted, the national dance company was being hosted by Melvin's company that was African Heritage Dancers and Drummers. And I met Djimo Kouyate, he was at that time, both the musician and a lighting designer and part of the management team for the national ballet. He was one of the founding members of the national ballet. We met very briefly and then he had to leave to go to the next venue. So literally I'm talking minutes, and we wrote letters for two years and fast forward and two years later when he decided to retire from the

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national ballet, he moved to Washington D.C. and that's when we met again. And we married in 1981.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:09:40] So you married in 1981. And when he came to D.C., did he work with Melvin or did you guys start a company? How did that become to Memory of African Culture? And I'm kind of going around in circles too. And that's okay. But how did that all come about?

Akua Kouyate: [00:09:55] So as I said, I was working with Melvin Deal. We both were working with Melvin for a brief time and then in around 1983. We decided that we wanted to start a company that focused on not only dancing music but oral history. Obviously, um, that was important to Baba Djimo because he's a Jali. A Jali is a oral historian of Mande tradition and he really wanted us to focus on some of the important work that we've been doing both in dance and music, but also in culture and in history. And so at that time, a group of artists, myself, Baba Djimo, Sherill Berryman Johnson, Dr. Berryman Johnson and many people know her. She was a major force actually. I danced with her when I was at American University and we danced together from that time up until the forming of Memory of African Culture. And she was one of those who helped to form the company as well. And so that happened in 1983.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:11:03] Wow. So after you got married, you started a company once you guys came back and you danced with Melvin for a while. And then, um, what was Memory of African Culture's role? Uh, at that time, and were there any other companies? So you had African Heritage and then you had Memory. Um, so what other companies in D.C. at that time, were you guys the more prominent companies that were doing?

Akua Kouyate: [00:11:30] There were, there were several people who were engaged and there were companies that were happening. This was a vibrant time in Washington, D.C. where, um, what was so wonderful about Washington, D.C. is that you had folks from all around coming together. You have folks who are coming from the continent. You had folks who

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were heavily involved in the culture here from the US. Um, and so a lot was happening. I believe at that same time Aido Holmes had a company that was forming in that time. Also around that same time, uh, you had KanKouran, you had Baba Assane Konte who was, um, coming together with Abdou Kounta and they were developing their company. And even before that, people were coming together. I remember, Baba Djimo and Assane and others doing some projects with Morcham who was out of Atlanta and St. Louis at the time and they did some projects at Disney World and some other places around the country and a lot of work happening in St. Louis. So there's a, it was a really vibrant time. Um, there were probably some other companies happening as I recall them in this conversation. I'll try to mention those as well. But, uh, another company that was important, I remember now from Ghana, Yakobi. He had established in the Washington metro area. He was teaching at Howard University for a while. I took classes there with him as well, but he also was forming the company. So again, you had representation from around the region in D.C., Maryland, Virginia, but you also had dynamic presentations that were happen in that with African dance, particularly with continental Africans and Africans born in America coming together and building their programs and their companies.

Akua Kouyate: [00:13:45] And the companies were really a means of building cultural literacy for the community. It really was certainly, that was important to the memory of African culture. It was about not only performing, but it was also about really I'm manifesting our traditions as people of African heritage and learning those traditions. I know also that while we were in D.C., there were other companies who have been doing this work for some time. There were connections to Lagi Camara in New York. There was connections to Nana Denizulu in New York. And again, the boundaries. While we weren't using the internet in the same way the boundaries, were not really there because these people will always connecting. There was um, Babatunde Olatunji and I'm naming these people because the folks who I'm talking about, were still connected with each other in many ways. Um, another D.C. person who was really important at that time was Barnett Williams.

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Akua Kouyate: [00:15:00] He was a major percussionist. I'm bringing in that whole Afro Cuban and African Latino styles of music. And so the experience, he was so rich and it still is as a result and we were all in the same areas and that manifests not only in the companies but it also manifests in the music. And it manifests in the cultural practices that were forming, um, that we're developing in this area with people engaging in traditional spiritual practices as well. So the music and the dance and the performing companies also helped to manifest the connection with African culture and tradition and spirituality and ways of life.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:15:53] When you say ways of life, like how did you dress like sometimes the way you dress, you dress in traditional clothing and then sometimes you dress and um, well, I don't want to call it American clothing, but how does the dress and like learning the culture, learning the food, learning the languages, learning their customs, how does that help us as African Americans who, you know, many of us who have not been to the continent to understand that connection?

Akua Kouyate: [00:16:24] I would say for, let me talk specifically about my family. So that's, that's the point of reference. So obviously during the time that Baba Djimo and I raised our family, he passed in 2000, 2004. So I need to say that, during that time where our family was raised, because of his being a Jali and oral historian, our house was full of music all the time, every day you had to learn how to look at the TV and listen to music simultaneously. But it was a part of life and it was part of the culture and so that, um, whether it was a wedding or a naming ceremony or some other spiritual ceremony that involved both Islam and it also involved our traditional beliefs in Mande culture. They always manifests. If there was someone who happened to be visiting and particularly if they were of the Jali traditions, so if it was a Jabate or some others.

Akua Kouyate: [00:17:31] And there are artists who are based in New York and other places, now we have connections with them. They would come. I'm thinking about Famaros Dioubate, and Abdul Sila and who are both balafon players. And then there were a few others who are Jali's who

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are Jali families. If they came through, if they were in the area, we hosted them in our homes. And so that meant food and music and singing and history, um, that happened all the time. Also, because Baba Djimo was an educator, he taught at University of Maryland for many, many years. We often hosted his students in our homes. So that meant eating African food and talking about the music and the culture and it was also important for the company, Memory of African Culture. And so this was the bringing together of many families. Um, I know you spoke to Mama Makini.

Akua Kouyate: [00:18:37] You may not have spoken to, but hopefully you will speak to Mama Afia Nson Bonsu. And, um, again, because we were all talking about our families being reared in the culture, our children with the African centered schools, NationHouse was one. Um, there were other African centered schools. Baba Zulu had his school. Um, you had the school that was, and I'm not naming all the schools right now, but there's information and people can give that information as well. Um, it was about trying, tempting to manifest a lifestyle that was rich and recognizing our cultures. I remember, and I'm going to go back with a little bit, as I said, we were talking in circles. This happened for me before the dance. Um, I remember being 14 years old in Washington, D.C. with my friends and we're going into our first Kwanzaa programs.

Akua Kouyate: [00:19:53] And again, Baba Ngoma was there and others in the community were there and I remember my friends and I getting together and deciding to have our own naming ceremony. And so I received my name Akua Fami when I was 14 years old and my friends and I did, I researched together and, and we decided to take on these names that were manifesting them. It meant something to us. I was born on Wednesday as a Ghanaian tradition. Fami means love me. The full name is Olufami, which is a tradition. Um, and that meant something to me at that very young age. And so those were again manifestations of recognizing who we are as an African people in America. And so all of these things came together. There was not one particular event that happened that were multiple things that were happening in our communities where we were engaging and I'm African

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belief systems and Africa, Kennedy, African spiritual systems, African thought processes, processes, um, along with recognizing.

Akua Kouyate: [00:21:16] And I'm really grateful for this, recognizing that as people born in America, those traditions are richly steeped. So we didn't deny who we were. My family was raised, my father was born in South Carolina and what people call it, the low country in santee and submergent. My mother was born in North Carolina, and that tradition of being in the African Methodist church and being a part of that music and that culture and the spiritual system there was always a part of us as well. And so those manifestations were equally important in my life as a part of, so my children were steeped in all of this. They were steeped in what they learned and the experience. And they were reared in those traditions of their father from Senegal, from Mali, from Gambia. And they were reared in the traditions of African American people in the South from South Carolina and North Carolina, and really we made it a point, very intentionally of making sure that we made those connections and even if we had to go to a couple of things and then we come out and we have to break it down, okay, then, well what do we see?

Akua Kouyate: [00:22:38] What happened? What was the music? What did they say? What part of that is it that we're going to continue to manifest and what some of those things that we feel like we need to make some adaptations. That was a part of how we, our children were reared and that was really important. And so as the performing company continued Memory of African culture, a really important part of our raising our families together, Mama Makini, our family, other families, many other families who came through there, members of the community, was to have regular sessions on history and culture and singing. So literally it wasn't the rehearsal. It was sit down and bring in historians and bring in traditions and bring in practitioners, and learn the songs and understand the meaning of the songs and making sure that that was a practice of what we did on a regular basis.

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Akua Kouyate: [00:23:40] Um, my daughter once asked me, what was the first song you ever learned? And I said probably Funga was the first song, that's the one that a lot of people learn. Um, but then I've had to start thinking about all of the songs that I really learned in different places and I can't tell you what the really the first song was because I had experiences with people from so many different places, including them, as I said, Andrew, who was from Belize and, and Baba Ngoma who was really into the Afro Cuban and sound and then learning more of the Yoruba music and sounds and learning with Melvin. Both Yoruba and Ghanaian sounds with some Ghanaian sounds there. And then learning the Mande tradition, really steeped in the Mande tradition with Baba Djimo and many others and of course with Baba Chuck who took us around the world and back again.

Akua Kouyate: [00:24:41] So, um, I think what's really important in Washington D.C. is the richness of the traditions that were a part of the performing arts, that in all of these different companies, the importance of understanding culture as a way of life for us and America as Africans in America was just as important, is equally as important as performing it in our communities. And as a result of being a performing company like yourself, we were invited to be a part of weddings and part of naming ceremonies in the part of the celebrations when people were making their transitions to the ancestral world. We weren't part of all of that because we were bringing all of that to our community.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:25:42] So, um, I'm going to circle back, um, so one of the things I think that's missing, and you can talk about this, you said, you know, you guys had regular sessions of history and culture, the new companies that are coming out or if you go to the classes these days, it's very different. And I don't know if because you guys were such a close knit family, that's, that's why that sustain. And I know that there are some companies that are doing those things, but how do you help the new companies or you know, try to remember that the dance is important, but you have to know the, um, the history and the culture.

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Akua Kouyate: [00:26:22] Well, in some ways it's happening in some ways I think it's taken for granted and that's probably the challenge because of the richness of what's in Washington D.C. Our children and our grandchildren have grown up in this. And so some of it they may take for granted. I remember my son telling me one day when he traveled out of the D.C. metro area, and he's traveled a lot now, he's traveled all across the US, and his first or his early travels, he was really surprised to know that what he had in Washington D.C. was not in other parts of the United States. And so we, they now have the responsibility and they have to realize this, the next generation and the generation there after, I'm talking about now the grandchildren as well as the children are really making it a point to have these kinds of sessions that they grew up in, that it was a part of their lifestyle because they were always in it and a part of it, and realizing that even though they have attempted to raise their children in that same environment, it has to be intentional.

Akua Kouyate: [00:27:42] It has to be extremely intentional. It has to be, um, a place where even though your children have been dancing since they were in your stomach and therefore the grandchildren have done the same thing, you really have to take the time to talk and discuss, and why is this important? What is it that we're doing? Why do we do these things? How are we bringing it to the next time place? Because culture is not static. How about the new generations of continental Africans who are coming here who were learning this at the ballet as much as learning it in their communities. Whereas their predecessors, like a Joli Djimo Kouyate like Assane Konte, like Kadiatou Conte, also, who's really important to this, who came from their communities practicing the traditions and brought it to the ballets.

Akua Kouyate: [00:28:48] So, um, it all is important, is all a manifestation of culture, but how do we really continue to express that? How do we recognize that they're contemporary expressions that are being developed that are equally important because again, culture is not static. So, um, how do we recognize what we call traditional and what we call contemporary because even I was asked, I was talking to my daughter about a particular song called Yarabi that Baba Djimo taught us and then it's done as a version called Yarabi Seconsis and this version

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speaks to the time when Guinea was having this independence. And so there's a newer version obviously and there is an older version, and so, um, how do we pass on the information? Part of it is taking time, just literally taking time. Realizing that coming together as companies has to be more than rehearsing for a show. That coming together has to be time taken for talking with each other and inviting each other to come in and know each other. To hear the eldest, but have conversations between the younger generations and the elders. Not just talking at young people because young people have a lot to bring as well. As a matter of fact, where I am at this point is, I go take classes from all of those who I used to teach. I now take their classes because they've learned so much more and realizing at the same time that I can learn from them and they can learn from me. I recently took a class with Mama Marie Basse-Wiles who is in New York. She has her company, Maimouna Keita Company in New York. She's come to Washington many times. She came with Memory of African Culture and taught our company members and talked with, there were others who came who were historians who just suddenly came and talk and we sang songs, but the point being is that you have to take time.

Akua Kouyate: [00:31:18] You have to be invested in taking that time and you have to teach a younger generation that everything is not on the internet that you really have to converse and learn to listen about experiences, and I'm going back. I remember when we were traveling, Baba Djimo and I took a group of us to Senegal and we went to the Casamance. We were going to a conference of the Joli tradition and I have to, this was back in 1993, Mama Makini was there, Diallo, who is with Farafina Kan now. He was a teenager. He was about 70 years old, something like that and a few of us went there and we were waiting at the border to travel across the river from Senegal through the Gambia to the Casamance and the ferry was stopped overnight and we were at the border and all night long, I am not kidding you, all night long.

Akua Kouyate: [00:32:31] There are a group of Joli's there and they were discussing the history of Sundiata Keita through verse and through songs. And this was all night long and I learned something, even this was 1992, there was a moment where I had this curiosity and I wanted to ask a question

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and it was a moment where Baba Djimo said, don't ask, just listen, just listen. And in the listening I had a chance to learn more than I could have ever asked because there were so many points of view of the history from those who were living in The Gambia for those who were living in the Casamance region and for those who were living in Mali and from those who are living in Guinea, um, our children and our family has been really blessed because of the Joli tradition, you have it throughout the area of West Africa in multiple countries.

Akua Kouyate: [00:33:39] And a part of that tradition is learning from other Joli's. And this group of Kouyate's, it was really important that the children be sent to other Joli families in other parts of the area. So if, for example, Amadou is playing the Kora, his brother who learned to play the Kora as well, he doesn't perform like Amadou, but he plays it, but if they're learning and they're playing music, they learned, and certainly my nephew who is Mari Kouyate who lives in, um, he lives in Michigan now just outside of Detroit, but they learned not only of one tradition a way of playing. So they learned how to play from Mande tradition, Mandingo, Bamabara tradition, Mandinka tradition. There's a very specific words for the different forms of music because the music is so connected to the language and all of these are different language connections to Bambara.

Akua Kouyate: [00:34:43] But the point being is that there's more, more than one style and the same way for the dance. So if you see Lamba, um, the dance of the Joli, if you see it and you happen to see Mama Karitayu perform it and then you see Mama Marie Basse-Wiles perform it, and their nuances are slightly different. It's because it's from a slightly different region, but they all are real. They all are true. And so I think that taking that time to study when you go to these conferences and open your minds to recognize that, well, I learned from this teacher, but now I have a chance to learn from another teacher. So let me just close my mouth, open my eyes, open my brain and learn. And uh, I know that many of the generations, Farafina Kan talks about the fact that they are coming from generations from our Assane's Company, from Baba Chuck's company too.

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Akua Kouyate: [00:35:49] But, but from also, um, Baba Melvin's company, they learn from so many different people. And so they were blessed. Um, um, and my son says it's, we are all blessed that we had access to so many different teachers so that they come in, you know, I know Mahiri, he studied with Mama Bekata. So they come with, they've had these experiences coming from multiple places which makes them, as teachers need to, knowing that there's not one way. There are multiple ways of this culture and tradition and multiple expressions and being open to that knowledge, you know, still recognizing that they learn in a particular way and that's good. But there's also other ways.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:36:45] Um, I, I want to go back to Joli like a, because you are African American but you married from, from the continent and sometimes I think when, when, well when they see African American's dance, they don't know that we're not from the continent until we get off the stage most of the time. So how did people receive you in Senegal? How did people receive you here as being the wife of this prominent Joli, and then how does the lineage pass on? So can your son or daughter be Joli's as well, can you explain that whole process, because I don't think people know, like how that works.

Akua Kouyate: [00:37:28] Sure. So of the Mande Joli tradition, you're born into it whether you perform it or not, you don't have to necessarily be a performing artist, you don't necessarily have to be someone who presents on stage, you're still born into the tradition. So all of our children are Joli. Baba Djimo was 149th generation. Our children are the 150th generation, my grandchildren, 151st generation. So it's a tradition that you're born into whether you practice it or not. Um, and it's really important to understand that that's the first thing. Secondly, um like the tradition requires, um, normally a Joli would be the one responsible for introducing families when they're married. Okay. Um, one family to the other, telling the history of one family, telling the history of the other families so that they can be compatible. If you are a Joli, you have to have somebody who represents you.

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Akua Kouyate: [00:38:38] Well, one of Baba Djimo's really close friends, Harold Burke, uh, happened to, this is, there is no coincidence, happened to know Baba Djimo really well. He also happened to work with my sister years ago, and so, um, he came to our house to ask my father if Baba Djimo and I can be married, but before that, Baba Djimo had to ask his mother and his family and, um, Baba Djimo's father had told him when he was a very young child that he was going to be one who traveled the world. He was going to be connected and other places. Baba Djimo's mother said, because I was African American and I did not know what my line was. I couldn't be Joli, I might not be Joli. But the more important thing to her was that we followed the family tradition, that was more important to her.

Akua Kouyate: [00:39:49] My family practice Islam and spiritual and African spiritual belief systems. I was raised in the African American church and the Black Church, family was most important. So if we practice as family and according to our family traditions, then we were blessed that way. And so in doing so, that's, that was the commitment, the commitment to family. And as a result, obviously, as I said, music was happening all over in our house all the time, but um, but our children were just raised up in the communities, in multiple communities, of family in multiple communities of family. Um, one of Amadou's teachers, and it's interesting when you say teacher, teacher means a lot of things. It's really important in Mande tradition, it doesn't necessarily mean that you spend 24/7 playing the instrument. Teacher can be in a lot of things. It's where you get your knowledge. Education at home is the most important education. So one of Amadou's teachers, um, his father was Sidiki Diabate. He's a very well-known kora player. Anyway, the point being his father, um, Amadou's teacher, his father was Baba Djimo's teacher, we sent Amadou to Mali to study with him when Amadou was 17, just before he turned 18. His study wasn't about playing Kora all the time, his study was about learning life.

Akua Kouyate: [00:41:54] That wasn't his first time going home, he had been there before. Um, Baba Djimo also recognized family here. Mama Makini is considered, that's her auntie. That's an important role she has in helping to raise kind of like we say Godmother, but a little bit deeper,

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but that's an important place. That's an important role. Um, their sisters and brothers, all of you know, they all raised together and we have family on three continents. We have family here, we have family in France and we have family in Senegal and in Mali and Guinea. And I'm saying all of this to say that family is first. Family is first. So we consciously and purposefully use the art form as a way to manifest family tradition. Baba Djimo would tell Amadou, you can go to university, you can go to college, you can go there, but this, what I'm giving you, this is yours. This is yours. When he talks about this, he's talking about the tradition, the core, the music.

Akua Kouyate: [00:43:35] He said this is yours, so you own this. And so that's family first is the foundation for it and I believe that that's a strong element in the D.C. metro area. I know it's in other places too. I think sometimes the proximity of dc because we're so right, really close to each other that, that happens, whereas places it happens in other places but they might be a little spread out. So I think there's a uniqueness about where we are in this metropolitan area that allows that to manifest over and over again through the arts.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:44:17] So yeah, definitely. I agree with you about a family, and D.C. is very, very small and even, you know, talking about Baltimore, Virginia, I mean everybody, we all know each other and it is a tight knit family. Um, when it comes to, how has your career changed? Because I know you used to be a fabulous dancer and you still a fabulous dancer, so, um, where his dance taken you personally, you know, of course we know we got married, had a family, but what has dance done for your life and what, what are you doing these days?

Akua Kouyate: [00:44:51] So interesting enough, you remember I said I started out as a dancer and doing modern dance as well, as a young dancer starting out, choreographing and doing all of that. I also had to learn how to manage myself. And so immediately I got into the track of administration and management, first for myself. Then when we started the company learning how to be an administrator for a company, which was not something that I went to school for and then working with artists, and I

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realized that I enjoy facilitating opportunities for artists to do what they do and do it well. So my work in arts administration began to blossom, very early on. And then of course, education. Most artists, even though they may not start out wanting to go into education, somehow find themselves in a teaching environment, very soon, and so I too started teaching and I enjoyed transferring knowledge.

Akua Kouyate: [00:46:11] So both education and administration became areas that really blossomed for me. I was able to cultivate it through the company, Memory of African Culture. I was also able to cultivate it through my work with Joli Djimo Kouyate, both as an artist, not only as my husband, and as an artist. He also did not only traditional but contemporary work as a musician. He did solo work. He had an African fusion ensemble, Mamaya African Jazz. Um, we did other types of projects that were related to the art. So I had to learn how to write proposals, write press release. Um, and this was all learning in the moment for me. It was learning in the moment. I had not gone to school for this, but I enjoyed being successful at it. I enjoy creating educational projects where others can be a part of it. D.C. was really rich with this summer youth employment program, which at one point most of the arts organizations were invested in this project providing arts learning and arts employment for young people across the city.

Akua Kouyate: [00:47:31] And this was major for Washington D.C. It was major for arts organizations. It was major for many of the young artists who are now artists today. Um, and so as an administrator, having to navigate that and having to really horn my skills both as an administrator, and an educator, that really led me in many directions. First, as I said, with our own company. Then I was teaching for a while in D.C. public schools. I worked directly with Sherrill Barryman Johnson for many years. We choreographed together in the early years. We performed a lot. We also did multiple projects. I eventually went to, uh, I eventually ended up at Howard University under her direction and the dance major program, which she started as one of the first, um, dance major programs in a historically black institution. Howard University had the first dance major in a historically black institution.

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Akua Kouyate: [00:48:44] And this was formed under Dr. Sherrill Barryman Johnson. And again, because of her work there, she facilitated bringing multiple companies into the region. My first experience with Baba Ron Brown and, uh, Evidence Dance Company was through her. My first experiences with Urban Bush Women was through her. My first experiences with other companies was through that work that was done at Howard. I know that the students at Howard annually would support KanKouran in their annual conference. Again, this is a really vibrant community when you have all these intersections of dance and culture and history and music. Um, we performed at multiple places in the area we worked with his assistant, uh, last name is Johnson. I'm not calling her first name right now. She used to be at Coppin. She used to have major programs there. I'm losing the names right now.

Akua Kouyate: [00:49:46] I wish I had a list. I should have written them all down. But, um, again, just making those relationships. We performed at for the, um, for the Black Psychological Associations. We perform for other types. We did a lot of work with um, um, the major political and other organizations that were in the area as well that were focused on African and African diaspora. So being the companies in this area and we perform at embassy's, we also perform with the World Bank. We performed with those various organizations who were doing that kind of work, again, a network, so to speak, of providing the cultural presence for these institutions. And that's a really important piece of what we do. I think sometimes people think, oh, you're artists, you perform on stage and do it, you leave. But no, we really are bringing the culture, bringing the culture to the full so that the whole expression can be a full expression.

Akua Kouyate: [00:50:57] And investing in that as artists, as practitioners of cultures, as educators of culture. Um, and so that part of administration and education really took a hold for me, um, that eventually led me to where I am in my professional life. Now at Wolf Trap Foundation for the Performing Arts. I'm the Vice-President for Education at Wolf Trap. And I oversee the education programs at Wolf Trap, which are varied number of education programs there. Children's Theater in the Woods,

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the Institute for Early Learning Through the Arts, Grants for High School Performing Arts Teachers, etc. I know I'm talking about DanceAfrica and African dance here, but that world opened up a huge world for me. African dance and culture opened a huge world for me as an artist, as an educator, as an administrator. It opened my world for my family development. It opened my world for my belief systems, my spiritual belief systems, how they manifested.

Akua Kouyate: [00:52:23] It opened my world to go back and study my own family traditions, which is really important now. Um, my family just came back from a family reunion in South Carolina and we're looking at the generations of us and we were able to find out on my father's side that our bloodline is from the Fang tradition and the Mitsogho if I'm saying that right. I have to look at how to say that, Mitsogho traditions from present day Gabo and on my mother's side, Yoruba and Hausa from present day Nigeria, but then really going back and understanding the way that we eat, the food that we make, the way that we practice, the way that we do things. I remember as a child sitting around the table and singing songs, old spirituals while we played cards and doing everything else, how we believe in each other, how we raise our children.

Akua Kouyate: [00:53:27] My father one time asked me, he said, he hadn't been to Africa. He been to Europe when he was in the war, in World War II, but he had not been to Africa. My mother was fortunate to travel to North Africa at one point, but my father said, what's Africa like? I sat and I thought, this time my experience was Senegal and Tambacounda, Senegal, which is where Baba Djimo is from. And I said to my father, I said, you know how when we go down south and you roll down the window and I know that I'm home down there because you can take your hand out and you speak to everybody and that red clay dirt and that family connection. That's what Senegal was like. It was the same thing. And that was something that was really important. You talked about, you asked me how did people accept me or how did I know, how did my family know or how did they accept me marrying someone who was continental? It was because we realized it was the same thing. And so that was really important and really important for me to understand,

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really important for my children to understand, really important for us as a people in this country to understand that the part of us who makes us African Americans, it the African.

Akua Kouyate: [00:55:00] It's not the American part only, there's some manifestations. I see ourselves as being another ethnic group of Africans in America, depending on when you got here and you know, and because my immediate ancestors who were brought here in South Carolina and in North Carolina and we spent so much time here and it manifested in how we had to accommodate and adapt and change and survive here. That's an important part, but it didn't start here. They came with family, they came with spirituality, they came with food, they came with belief systems that manifested and even in our struggles and to this day continues to manifest when we acknowledged that, when we dig deep. So the work here is to recognize and dig deep in the manifestations of who we are as a people and continue that and the dance and the music helps us to do this.

Sylvia Soumah: [00:56:17] Speaking of a DanceAfrica and dance and music, um, you know, DanceAfrica has changed over the years. Um, I just remember it in the '80s and the '90s and just that sense of family and uh, I really felt that, but like after the '90s supposedly DanceAfrica D.C., I started to see it changed and as companies were starting to leave and new companies will come in then and trying to figure out. So as you look at DanceAfrica D.C., where would you like, you know, it to go or what would you like to see different?

Akua Kouyate: [00:56:58] Something's are different. Something's are the same. Um, I can appreciate certain level of change. I love seeing the next generations of people. I love seeing that now when the companies come from, onto their children and their children's children. I love also seeing the babies dancing. I love seeing the traditional companies who have been around forever coming with another generation of performing artists. I love all of that. I love that. I would hope that there's still a commitment to bring groups from the continent, from the diaspora. I hope there's a commitment to bring people from other parts

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of the US who are doing work, important work. I hope there is a commitment to bring expressions that considered both traditional and contemporary. I think the thing that the part that made DanceAfrica so vibrant was Baba Chuck's commitment to having us continue to learn and experience all of who we are.

Akua Kouyate: [00:58:19] From what he said, something about the Savannas, the vast Savannas. He had a way of saying it, but wherever we are, bringing those expressions in and bringing us together for those expressions and realizing that there's excellence in those expressions. I also think hopefully there is a commitment to that, a commitment to excellence, not only for the performers, but for the investment in the program itself for the investment Dance Place has historically invested in DanceAfrica. I would like to see it continue to invest in DanceAfrica. I would like to see more collaboration with those companies and how they invest in it. However, that is. I'm I, I'm, I'm not a leader of those companies now, so I know the Dance Place has historically presented some of these companies outside of DanceAfrica, which is important because it's not that we do this at one time in a year. I think DanceAfrica, is a way for a galvanizing a large community of people and helping us to continue to grow and learn and to share and so I was excited to hear that you went to South Africa. I loved how your work with Coyaba at this last DanceAfrica showed how there are places on other parts of the continent with some of the language is very similar.

Akua Kouyate: [00:59:55] And it has different meeting or different purpose and some of us uniquely different, but you were thoughtful in making that expression. You were very conscientious and I want to see that kind of consciousness. I would love to see that kind of consciousness of developing the work, showing the traditional. I even liked the idea of bringing some of the really old pieces that you haven't seen in a long time. Maybe some of these companies in this area who have done works from ages ago can revive something that they haven't done in such a long time so people can see, wow, how things are the same and how things are different. So it's, it's, it's, I'm not afraid of change. Let's put it like that. I'm not afraid of change, but I value tradition. I'm not afraid of having a next generation make their expression by value,

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respect and honoring that which came before. I believe that in order to move forward, you got to know what came before you.

Akua Kouyate: [01:01:10] You gotta know you gotta study, you gotta study and I hope that there's a commitment, a continued commitment to study. Baba Chuck was the best teacher and, and I hope that we all understand that and all of the different teachers, I named so many teachers just now. I named teacher after teacher after teacher and that's the importance of what we do. We have traditions that are passed down from generation to generation to generation. The songs that my children sing, some go back beyond the 13th century, but then there's songs that Amadou sings that are a mixture of hip hop and jazz and funk and everything else that he's created today that are important for the expression of what he's doing today. There's things that Bintou has done in terms of dance that she teaches me that I have no clue, they're my first time experience in it. But then there's dances that I show her that have much history that she has to learn it over again because the first time I showed her she was too young to understand, you know. So that's a cyclical relationship and I'd like to see that continue.

Sylvia Soumah: [01:02:33] Well, I think, um, we definitely are planning to continue, you know, the legacy of Baba Chuck. You know, I mean, he was definitely one of a kind. And um, as we move forward, how do you think we should go about or how can we get the young people to know? We did try to do a talk back panel and I had um, a Baba Melvin and Mama Makini. And only a few people showed up. How do we, um, do you have any suggestions on how we get this generation to really come out and study? Like I like traveling. I like studying. I like when I go to Africa, I'm in the mix. No air conditioning, sometimes no air conditioning in the car. I sleep on the floor, you know, like how do we get people to just really try to invest in learning about the traditions as opposed to just going on stage and just dancing?

Akua Kouyate: [01:03:28] Sometimes you have to be really creative. So here is one suggestion. I'm just thinking this right off the top of my head right now. Right? So you have a dance class, right? And the dance class is an hour

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and a half, two hours, right smack in the middle of the class, have a singing session or history session or something. Then they get back up and dance because people are not going to leave if they know that it's going to be dancing on both sides of it, but in the middle of it, because sometimes you have to bring folks in. Once they experienced, then they'll bring themselves in. I could see that happening in multiple. It's that kind of just placing it where the folks are, placement where they have to have in the middle of your rehearsal, have that conversation. Yeah. We were rehearsing and we have to do both sides of this and this is a part of it, you know, singing is a big deal, learning to sing and then having to write down everything and translating languages, and then when you translate it, that's not enough. Because most times, especially in the Mande languages, what you say, it's not literal. It has another meaning, a deeper meaning and trying to understand that deeper meaning, you know, so really.

Akua Kouyate: [01:05:08] I understand that, trying to program it at the end or something. Sometimes you have to put it right where you are right where it is. You have to put it right there and you might have to teach and sometimes it may be short for a while. It might get longer for another time. Maybe it's 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there. Maybe it becomes a half an hour. I'm just adjusting this. You almost can do it in a program here at Dance Place, at a dance Africa festival. It's like maybe the recitation, maybe we get down hip hop artists to recite some of the history in their expression, giving them the language and let them translate it, you know, giving them the knowledge of what it is and say, translate this for this generation to grasp, you know, I'm just throwing ideas. But um, in order for that hip hop group to translate it into their language, they have to study it, right? They have to study what's the meaning of this? You know, let's do this stance. Let's put it into words. What are we doing? Why are we doing it? I mean, ask them then ask them, ask them, how do you know this? How, how can you learn this? What do we need to do? Ask the younger generation, what will it take for you to know this, to really know this, what does it mean to you? And remember that excellence that Baba Chuck strive for, Baba Chuck did not play about that.

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Akua Kouyate: [01:06:40] You know, that excellence, that everything we do has to have that in mind, you know, and I'm saying that's something you strive for. You never reach it because if you reach it, he must be dead. I mean you never really reach it because there's always something more to learn, right? And invoke that energy, invoke the energy. Bringing up the seance of somebody who's said something before, invoke the energy of the ancestors.

Sylvia Soumah: [01:07:10] You talk about collaborations and I know we have tried to collaborate with the different companies, but I find still what I'm seeing is still there is this competition or this this thing, but the companies now that they don't do it this way. How do you, how do you think we should go about, this generation should go about with trying to do collaborations because it seems like it's, everybody's still separate and I think I've just remembered back in the '80s even though people didn't collaborate as much, I just felt like the respect level was there. But like now I just, as I, you know, go about it and go to the different places. There's this competition or this thing. Yeah. How do you, how do we move forward and try to have us come together so that we can do the collaborations?

Akua Kouyate: [01:08:05] I dunno. I mean, you know, there's something about healthy, this healthy competition that's, that's okay. I mean, you know, but, but again, think about being creative. You asking me on, on, on the moment. And for example, I mentioned something earlier, I talked about how don't you see the dances are done in different regions. Why don't I have multiple teachers teaching the same dance? Make sure that they know why and how you got to have, you know, make sure that they can say I'm teaching it the way I learned it here. I'm teaching the way I learned it here. I'm teaching the way I learned it here, but the same dance. And you see the uniqueness of it. You know, because I know that I, I've told some young people, if you paid attention to all of your different teachers, I remember that they have three or four different teachers who were dynamic teachers. Look how rich your vocabulary would be if you could dance it like all of your teachers.

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Akua Kouyate: [01:09:27] Oh my gosh, that's amazing. That's just amazing to me. So that's just one thought. That's the one thing I would, you know, make, make that one session of multiple teachers teaching different form of the same dance tradition in different regions from different regions of the continent, and the uniqueness of that. But you got to get the right people to bring them together. Sure. It takes some work but you can do it. It can, it can happen, it can happen. It really could. And, and, and that's important. That's an important piece. So that's just one suggestion.

Sylvia Soumah: [01:10:12] And because funding is, as um, I remember back in the '80s and '90s, like you were talking about grants and funding. Funding is definitely, um, it's harder now to get funding for different things. So I think collaborations are real, real important. So, um, you know, just making sure that all the companies know that, you know, collaborations are, are a great thing to do because the funding is, it's, it's, it's tough.

Akua Kouyate: [01:10:45] I remember a beautiful collaboration that Memory of African Culture did one year was Sankofa and we brought in Mama Marie Basse-Walis as the teacher, as the teacher. I'm trying to remember all of this, and then have the forums, but then there were the, the artistic direction from both sides of the company doing the creation of the work and we each represented a village, a different village coming to the celebration and Sankofa came in and they did one aspect of it and Memory of African Culture came in and they did the other aspect of it and it was two different parts to this piece. And then we did a celebratory piece in the middle together. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. It was a lot of work, but the directors had to agree to do that. Now mind you, it may not be the entire company, it might be a couple of dances. it might be bringing somebody else in unique to put on dancers from multiple companies, you know, to bring in somebody like, I love him, Ron Brown, I'm just calling his name out because I absolutely love him and he knows it but, and have, you know, have someone unique to come in and have representation from multiple companies, have a unique music, musical artists for the piece. A commissioned work where you have multiple artists and you got to pay artists, you got to pay artists, all of them, all of them. I think when you make a

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commitment to investment in artists, both the creators and the artists who come in and rehearsing, paying them for their time. It's a project, you know, and that be a major project. That's just another thought.

Sylvia Soumah: [01:13:07] Well, you have great thoughts and as we move close, um, is there anything that you want to leave as your legacy? You know, because this is, will be housed in the libraries. Um, for years to come. Is there anything you want to say? You know especially to our people. Especially sense what's going on politically here at this moment and this time and how African dance and music, um, you know, can help heal us and move us. Keep us, keep our eyes on the prize.

Akua Kouyate: [01:13:48] Um, Washington D.C., even though it's shifted, it's still rich and the boundaries for us are no longer the same. We could get to New York easily. We can get to Philly easily, we can get to Atlanta easily. It's much broader. Even though we talk about different communities really, we know all of the peoples who are doing the things that are happening. I think it's important to, I think it's very important to not only invest but to, to, to what's the word I wanted, to support. That's the word. Literally support wherever you can to challenge yourself and see other things too. Okay. Well, yeah, I'll, you danced with a company. Have you seen somebody else's company, you know, have you seen go out of the area? Guess what, there are other people who do what you do and do it as well or better. Um, and for the company directors, to challenge their company members to do just that, to make it an opportunity to do that. I remember a long time ago, it's interesting, I have to ask the young people, the grown folks now, but I remember and it was hard at the time, but still be, you know, where we wrote a grant for all of our company members, Memory of African culture to go to KanKouran's conference so that everybody could take classes there to support that. I remember clearly seeing Baba Assane and every MAC performance coming out to see that work. People have to look hard. It happens, it happens all the time. My children call Baba Assane, Papa Assane, that's their uncle, you know, Amadou has performed on the stage with their company, you know, that didn't take away from what we're doing with Memory of African culture. Doesn't take away from what, support each other is what I'm saying. Support each other and

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push that. I mean, because it's enough, we are everywhere, it's enough for all of us. It's not a battle we don't need any bickering.

Akua Kouyate: [01:16:46] We need to teach our children that, we need to teach the generations, we need to represent ourselves that way. We need to go out and see the work of everybody. You know, I'm at a point, I know it takes time and I know it takes money, but that's an important piece. One of one of my, one of my decisions is to try to hit every single African dance conference across the US. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but I want to, but that's a great desire to do that. Um, and then find a place for conversing for conversation. Honestly, you can't impose it on people. You have to be invited to the conversation, but invite people to the conversation. Invite people to have conversations and invite people too. And people can be. They can be who they are. We don't have to be one group, that doesn't make sense, where we're uniquely individual people coming together for collective experiences. and so we all can coexist in a way. And that's what I'm hoping for. That's what I hope to see us. I want to see the generations now look better than the ones before. I want to see not just with tricks but with reform, with content, with meaning, with purpose, with intention, with excellence. Um, to recognize that if we are going to be performing artists, carrying culture, we have to do it for the best. Yeah. To do it the very best that we can. And I think that is probably it. I am. So blanking on this one name and I am so upset that I can't remember this person's name. I almost need to pull out my phone.

Sylvia Soumah: [01:18:52] I want to thank you. I really enjoyed speaking with you today.

Akua Kouyate: [01:19:00] Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to talk my desires, my other desires to write at some point and I hope to do that. So hopefully this conversation will encourage me to do some writing.

Sylvia Soumah: [01:19:14] Well, that's another thing. I think, um, we do need more literature, and especially coming from your experience. Um, I think

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writing a book would be awesome. Um, and you know, just having these conversations or maybe you know, getting together before DanceAfrica, having you, Mama Makini, Mama Afia, you know, getting together especially with some of the young women that come to class still not quite understanding, you know, what the where and how to.

Akua Kouyate: [01:19:47] It's always going to be another generation of people learning that's always going to be generational.

Sylvia Soumah: [01:19:52] Yes. So, yes, absolutely. So I look forward to speaking with you. I'm looking forward to seeing that book because I will definitely buy it. I'm looking forward to having more conversations with you.

Akua Kouyate: [01:20:05] Oh, thank you Mama Sylvia, thank you for being invested in continuing, continuing the tradition of DanceAfrica D.C. Thank you.

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