[13 March, 1952.] 191

The Attorney General: Having in view land available to it at a low figure, the the roads it has to construct. State should not at the same time en- deavour to make large profits out of ex- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: It will have to Servicemen. I hope the Government will construct roads here. I am endleavouring have the matter looked into and put right. to show the difference in treatment. Here it will charge a maximum of £80 an acre, The MINISTER FOR WORKS: I know yet it is deliberately circumventing the nothing of the conditions which have provisions of the War Service Homes Act been described by the member for Mel- by making a substantial profit out of ville, but I shall certainly take them up soldiers. with my colleague. As regards the mat- ter under discussion, this arrangement was The Attorney General: I do not think made in order to encourage the industry to it is. come here. If by any chance it pays £80 Hon. J. T. TONKITN: I know it is. I an acre-and I feel it will be paying a con- am not in the habit of saying things here siderable price-it will be because the land that I cannot prove. has become so valuable through its com- The Attorney General: Yes you are. ing here. You are inaccurate quite often. Schedule put and passed. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Title-agreed to. H-on. J. T. TONKIN: The Attorney Gen- Hill reported without amendment and eral should back up his statement. the report adopted. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The member Third Reading. for Melville must address the Chair. Bill read a third time and transmitted Hon. J. T. TONKIN: I appreciate that, to the Council. but you, Sir, would not take from anyone what the Attorney General has said to me. House adjourned at 11.18 pa. I am giving him an opportunity, through you, to substantiate his statement. The CHAIRMAN: He can speak after the hon. member has finished, The hon. member must take no notice of interjec- tions. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: The Minister will not speak. I do not claim that every state- ment I make here is accurate. I believe it is when I make it but, if it is subse- quently proved to me that it is not. I have no hesitation in apologising. The Attorney General: I agree with that. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: When I make a statement I believe it to be accurate, but I cannot say that for some members on the other side. The CHAIRMAN: I think the member for Melville had better discuss the schedule now. Hon. J. T. TONKCIN: Yes, but you, Sir, Thursday. 13th March, 1952. will agree that the interjection was such CONTENTS. as to cause anyone to make an explana- Page tion. I can give the name of the soldier Questions :Onion Marketing Board, as to if it is required. I have discussed this negotiations for imports ... .. 1972 case with the war services homes section Oats, as to formation of compulsory pooi 1973 of the Housing Commission and with the Education, (a) as to South Babary officer concerned at the R.S.L., and I say primary school...... 1973 deliberately that when the H-ousing Com- (b) as to High School, Lake Monger .... 1973 mission buys land and allows a soldier to Bunbury Harbour, as to notice to em- select a block which was originally bought ployees ...... 1-...... 1973 for the purpose of erecting on it a Com- Mines Regulation Act, as to fatality at monwealth-State rental home, and the Norseman...... 1974 War Service homes section is charged such Sewerage, as to odour, Leederville elect- a price as enables a profit to be made by orate...... I... 1974 the Housing Commission, it defeats the In- Lake Monger rubbish lip, as to abating tention of the War Service Homes Act. nuisances...... 1974 There should be some uniformity in treat- Electricity supplies, (a) as to Installation ment. If it is reasonable in order to en- charges...... 1974 courage an industry to come here to make (b) as to suggested increase in charges 1974 1972 [ASSEMBLY.]

CONTENTS--continued. (2) Is there any likelihood of the W.A. Questions-continued. Page Onion Marketing Board negotiating with North-West, as to deep sea port, the Victorian Onion Board with a view Point Torment 1975 to establishing board to board trading, or some similar method of trading, in Proposed steel mills, as to B.H.P. Ply.' Co., Ltd. and Bradford Kendall & Co. 1975 relation to the importation and market- Housing, (a) as to rental homes for ing of Victorian onions? teachers ... .. 1975 (b) as to purcbases by teachers .. 1975 (3) In view of the fact that the W.A. (c) as to release of resumed land, Onion Marketing Board paid all the ex- Wanneroo...... 1975 penses incurred by Mr. Alec Murray dur- (d) as to accommodation for evietees 1970 ing a recent visit to Victoria, what was Railways, (a) as to standard gauge, IKal- the nature of the business negotiated by goorlie-Perth section 1976 Mr. Murray on behalf of the board? .. (b) as to footway, Maylands station 1976 (4) (a) What is the purpose of Mr. (c) as to warning signals, Caledonian Murray's present visit to Victoria? Avenue crossing .... 1976 (d) as to compensation for chord line (b) Is the Victorian Onion Board fin- resumptions...... 1977 ancing this visit? Cold, as to sales on free market, etc. .. 1977 Agricuiture, as to file on Kudzu.. .. 1977 (c) Is the W.A. Onion Board financ- Fisheries, (a) as to under-shzed crabs, ing this visit? prosecutions ...... 1977 (5) If the W.A. Onion Board were to (b) as to Profit on Mandurab catch : 1977 import onions on a board to board basis. (e) as to investigating scollop beds.. 1978 would commission be paid to the board's Transport, (a) as to trolley-bus stop, lMt. Hawthorn ...... 1978 broker? (b) as to Tuart Hill service ...... 1978 (6) Is it a fact that a number of mer- Anglo-Iranian Oil Co., Ltd., as to capital chants in this State have received advice and shareholding .. .. 1978 from Victorian merchants as follows:- War service land settlement, as to appli- cations and allotments 1978 We understand that the W.A. Onion Princess Margaret Children's Hospital, Board has approached the Victorian as to finances and Chinese patient.. 1978 Board with a request that onions for- Golddields nurses, as to free railway passes 1979 warded to W.A. this year should go Cement, as to increasing supplies 1979 through the W. A. Board. The posi- Guildford Road, as to declaring main tion is that two alternatives are sup- thoroughfare...... 1979 posed to have been given to your Swan River poliution, as to waste dis- board, namely- charged from brewery 1980 Co-ordinator of Works, as to trip abroad 1980 (1) That all orders placed by Prices control, (a) as to staff and cost .. 1980 them should go through Victorian (b) as to dry cleaning charges . 1980 merchants on a quota basis. Foundry fuel, as to waste wood briquettes 1980 (2) That W.A. merchants shall Bills :Workers' Compensation Act Amend- order through their board, nomin- ment (No. 2), leave to introduce, ating the Victorian merchant who refused...... 1981 is to supply onions through the Industrial Development (Kwlnana Area), Victorian Hoard to the W.A. Board? 2r. remaining stages. 1982 Motion :Broken Hill Proprietary Co., Ltd., (7) Is it a fact that a letter from the as to use of Koolan iron-ore...... 1990 W.A. Onion Marketing Board, dated the Adjournment, special ...... 2000 14th February, 1952, and addressed to the Potato and Onion Merchants' Associa- tion of W.A., read as follows:- In regard to onions that may be The SPEAKER took the Chair at 3.30 released by the Victorian Onion p.m., and read prayers. Marketing Board for distribution through this board to merchants in QUESTIONS. this State. it would seem from your ONION MARKETING BOARD. wr~itings that the members of your executive do not wish to be included As to Negotiations for Imports. in any such allocation. This, of Mr. OLDFIELD: To ask the Minister course, will be acted upon as and representing the Minister for Agriculture: when the occasion arises? (1) Has there been any negotiation in (8) If the answers to all, or any, of any form between the W.A. Onion Market- (1), (2). (5), (6), or (7) are in the ing Board and the Victorian Onion Board affirmative, does he consider the answers to establish board to board trading, or supplied by his department to questions any similar method of trading, in rela- asked by mec on the 6th March to be tion to the importation or marketing of inconsistent and irreconcilable with the Victorian onions? information received by Perth merchants? [13 March. 1952.1 1973

The MINISTER FOR LANDS replied: (6) No. Would tend to prevent it. (1) No. (7) No. Any move for such legislation must come from the growers to (2) Yes, after receipt of requests for the Minis- such a Procedure from wholesale traders ter. not members of the Wholesale Potato EDUCATION. & Onion Merchants' Association, and even then only with the approval of, the (a) As. to South Sunbury Primary School. Government, similar to that given in re- Mr. GUTHRIE asked the Minister for spect of imported potatoes. Education: (3) Seeking avenues for sale of surplus (1) Will he inform the House when the Western Australian onions. South Sunbury Primary School is likely (4) (a) Unknown. to be ready for occupation? (b) Unknown. (2) Will he state why there has been (c) No. such a delay caused in the supply of cement to the contractor for this important (5) The Board has no legal authority contract? to import onions under the Marketing of Onions Act. The MINISTER replied: (6) The Hoard has no knowledge, not (1) April, 1952. being a direct recipient of such advices. (2) Cement was allocated by Govern- (7) Yes, with emphasis on the last sen- ment when requested, but the suppliers tence. were unable to arrange imm ediate supply. (8) See (5). (b) AS to High School, Lake Monger. Mr. JOHNSON asked the Minister for OATS. Education: As to Formation of Compulsory Pool. (1) When can the parents of children in Mr. OLDFIELD asked the Minister the Leederville area and adjacent districts representing the Minister for Agriculture: expect that the high school planned for Lake Monger will be commenced? (1) Is he aware of a move to form a (2) How long is it anticipated that the compulsory pool for the handling of oats? erection of the school willtake after com- (2) Is he aware that if this comes into mencement? force, the entire oat crop, regardless of variety, quality and grade, will be mixed, The MINISTER replied: causing all varieties to lose their identity? (1) It is quite impossible to say when (3) Is he further aware that a few dirty the work of erecting the high school at samples could ruin the entire crop of any Lake Monger will be commenced. certain district by being stored in the local Consideration has been given the design bulk bin with sound quality grains? prepared by the Public Works Department (4) Is he aware that such a Pool would and the papers are before the Treasury be contrary to the best interests of the oat- Department. milling industry, be detrimental to the ex- (2) It is anticipated that the work of port of rolled oats and would further have erecting the school would take at least two an adverse effect on the export of milling years. oats? SUNBUJRY HARBOUR. (5) Does he agree that the formation of such a pool would be analogous to the As to Notice to Employees. complete socialisation of the entire cereal- Mr. GUTHRIE asked the Minister for growing industry? Works: (6) Would not such a pool accentuate the Will he inform the House the reasons Present acute shortage of seed oats? for the notices given last week to eight (7) Is be aware that Mr. Braine, the men employed on the work of extending Prime mover for a compulsory pool, was the Bunbury Harbour? well to the forefront in the movement which defeated the Government's Wheat The MINISTER replied: Stabilization Bill last year? Eight men who were engaged for -the specific work of guniting piles, in terms The MINISTER FOR LANDS replied: of the Department's contract with an (1) Yes. Eastern States firm for the carrying out P2) No such suggestion has been made of this work, have been dismissed follow- nor is it likely to be made. ing the completion thereof. (3) An Act would Prevent such Practices It is expected that these men will be far better than at present. taken over for work with another depart- ment, because at the moment there is (4) It could and would effectively cater no other work in connection with har- for all sections of the trade. bour improvement, in which they can. be~ (5) No more than wheat or barley. engaged. 1974 1974[ASSEMBLY.]

The step taken by the Department will evening in the Olive Grove district. not, in any way, interfere with the pro- Offensive odours at certain times will gress of the work of Bunbury Harbour occur, and are unavoidable. improvements now in course.. The work will be completed towards the end of April, when the odours re- MINES REGULATION ACT. ferred to will cease. As to Fatality at Norseman. LAKE MONGER RUBBISH TIP. Mr. MOIR asked the Minister repre- senting the Minister for Mines: As to Abating Nuisances. Mr. JOHNSON asked the Minister (1) Who was responsible for the ap- for pointment of an employee of the Iron Health: King pyrites mine at Norseman as (1) Is she aware of the plague of coroner to inquire into the death of Hone "midges' that infests the neighbourhood Anderson Roberts, a fellow-employee of of Lake Monger, particularly near the the company, who died in the mine on rubbish tip in the Anzac-rd. area? the 23rd February, 1962, by asphyxiation (2) Does she propose to take any action which was apparently due to the inade- to alleviate the distress caused to local quate ventilation provided by the em- residents, particularly mothers and young ployer? babies? (2) Was the provision of section 32, (3) Is she aware of the nuisance caused subsection (3) of the Mines Regulation to residents of the same area by the con- Act carried out in this case? If not, why stant smoke and smell from the said rub- not? bish tip, and will she take steps to elimin- ate this nuisance? (3) Will he take the necessary action to ensure that in future inquiries into The MINISTER replied: the cause of fatal accidents on mines will (1), (2) and (3) No. I have discussed be carried out according to the provisions this with the Commissioner of Public of section 32. subsection (3) of the Mines Health, who is taking the matter up with Regulation Act? the local authority which is responsible. The MINISTER FOR HOUSING re- ELECTRICITY SUPPLIES. plied: (a) As to Installation Charges. (1) Being a fatal accident, the matter would immediately come within the juris- Mr. HOAR asked the Attorney General: diction of the Coroner for the district, (1) What was the cost per point of who is responsible for the coronial in- Installing electrical current in the metro- quiry arrangements. politan area and in the country, as at the 31st December, 1051, and what is the cost (2) and (3) Section 32 primarily re- today? lates to accidents other than fatal ones, (2) Has the Prices Branch any control and the Procedure outlined therein is and over these charges? If not, whose respon- will be followed in such cases. sibility is it? (3) What justification is there for the SEWERAGE. recent increases? As to Odour, Leederville Electorate. (4) Are any steps taken to protect the public against over-charges? If so, to Mr. JOHNSON asked the Minister for whom does one apply? If not, why not? Water Supply: The ATTORNEY GENERAL replied: In "The West Australian" of Saturday, the 23rd February, he stated that efforts (1) and (2) The service of installing were being made to stop sewage odour in electrical current is not under price con- the Graylands, Karrakatta and Shienton trol. Park districts? (3) and (4) I am not aware that the (1) Is he aware that a very distress- charges are excessive. ing odour from a similar source is prevalent in the Olive Grove (b) As to Suggested Increase in Charges. section of the Leederville elec- Mr. W. I{EGNEY asked the Minister torate? for Works: (2) Will he direct his efforts to stop Is there any truth in the report that the State Electricity Commission proposes this smell also? to impose another increase on electricity The MINISTER replied: and gas charges shortly, after the end of this special session of Parliament? (1) and (2) The Department is carry- ing out the essential work of recondition- The MINISTER replied: Ing the main sewer, and in connection The prices of electricity and gas are with this work it is absolutely necessary varied automatically with variations in the to open certain sewer manholes in the basic wage and cost of coal. [13 March, 1952.] 197597

NORTH-WEST. (3) Yes. As to Deep Sea Port, Point Torment. (4) It nominates the tenants and guar- antees the rents in the event of the homes Hon. A. A. M. COVERLEY asked the remaining unoccupied. Premier: In view of the present circumstances, (b,) As to Purchases by Teachers. is it the intention of the Government im- mediately to proceed with the erection of Hon. J. T. TONKIN asked the Minister a deep sea port at Point Torment? for Housing: The PREMIER replied: (1) Under what power, or authority, does the State Housing Commission deny to No decision has been reached. The mat- school teachers who are given a tenancy ter is still under discussion with the Fed- of a home erected under the Common- eral Government. wealth-State Rental Homes Agreement, the opportunity to purchase such home? PROPOSED STEEL MILLS. (2) When a profit is made on the sale of As to B.H.P. Pty,. Co. Ltd. and Bradford land upon which Commonwealth-State Kendall & Co. rental homes have been erected, to what account or fund is the amount of profit Hon. J. T. TONKIN asked the Minister credited? for Industrial Development: (3) Is such profit taken into account To what extent will the proposed estab- when the financial position of the Com- lishment of Broken Hill Propriety Co. Ltd. monwealth-State Rental Homes Scheme is near Swinana. affect the Government's ascertained? commitments to Bradford Kendall and Co. in connection with works at the Smelters The MINISTER replied: for purposes similar to B.H.P.? (1) Houses in country areas have been The MINISTER replied: allocated by the Commission and built ex- pressly for key personnel of the Educa- There is no similarity between any pro- tion Department at the request of that posals of Broken Hill Proprietary Com- Department. These homes are being pur- pany and the activities of Bradford Ken- chased by the Education Department in dall. The latter firm are steel founders, order that they may be retained for and their establishment here is very wel- teachers. Houses provided in this way are come. Any activity which B.H.P. may not available for purchase by the tenants. undertake in this State. wherever it is (2) Profit on sale of land is credited undertaken, will not affect Bradford Ken- to the oldest outstanding loan under the dall's operations. Agreement. HOUSING. (3) Such profit is not taken into ac - count when the financial position in ac- (a) As to Rental Homes for Teachers. cordance with the provisions of the Second Schedule to the Agreement is as- Hon. J. T. TONKIN asked the Minister certained. for Education: (1) When the State Housing Commis- fe) As to Release of Resumed Land. sion makes Commonwealth-State rental Wannerao. homes available to school teachers, does Mr. W. HEGNEY asked the Minister it extend to them the same rights and privileges with regard to those houses as for Housing: are given to other tenants? In view of- (a) the decision of the Common- (2) floes the Commission impose the wealth Government to discontinue same obligations on teachers who are ten- finance to the State for erection of ants of Commonwealth-State rental homes Commonwealth-State rental homes; as are imposed on other tenants? and (3) Has the Education Department any (b) the proposal of the Govern- responsibility to the Housing Commission ment to build 1,000 homes in Kwinana with regard to houses which have been area. made available to teachers under the pro- is it the intention of the Government to visions of the Comimonwealth-Stat2 Ren- release any part of the property in Tuart tal Homes Agreement? H-ill-Yokine-Wanneroo Road area, which (4) What is the nature and extent of was resumned by the State Housing Corn- any such responsibility? mission late in 1950? The MINISTER replied: The MINISTER replied: (1) Yes, other than purchase where such There has been no decision by the houses have been provided or built in Commonwealth Government to discon- country centres at the request of the Edu- tinue finance to the State for Common- cation Department. wealth-State rental homes, but the (2) Yes. amount of loan funds available has been 1976 [ASSEMBLY.] restricted for the current year to an (3) What stage have negotiations amount sufficient only to carry on with reached between the Western Australian contracts where the Commission is State Government and the Common- actually committed. Further building wealth, and on what basis? under this scheme will be dependent on (4) Does he anticipate that the stringent the loan position prevailing in the future, import restrictions imposed by the Com- portion of which will be available for monwealth Government will interfere with housing. Senator McLeay's time limit? If not, when will a commencement be made with It is not the intention of the Govern- the Kalgoorlie to Perth section? ment to release any of the areas recently acquired. The PREMIER replied: (1) A Press item attributed to Senator (d) As to Accommodation for Evictees. McLeay concerning standardisation of gauges has been seen. Hon. J. T. TONKIN asked the Minister (2) Yes. for Housing: (3) No definite stage has been reached (1) Between the 6th March, 1952, and in the negotiations to date on standard the 12th March, 1952, what number of gauge. Discussions are in abeyance at evicted families who had not applied be- Present. fore the former date, made application (4) Answered by No. 3. to the Housing Commission for accom- modation? (b,) As to Footwiay, Maylands Station. (2) Between the 6th March, 1952, and Mr. OLDFIELD asked the Minister rep- the 12th March, 1952, for how many resenting the Minister for Railways: families evicted after the 30th September, 1951, did the Housing Commission Pro- (1) When will the present overhead vide accommodation? bridge at Maylands railway station be re- Placed by a new footway and ramp lead- The MINISTER replied: ing up to the footway? (1) One. (2) Does he not agree that the timber Position has eased sufficiently to allow (2) Twenty-three (includes 19 evic- this work to be undertaken? tions in metropolitan area and two coun- try evictions under amended rent legis- The MINISTER FOR EDUCATION re- Jation. Also two emergent evictions not plied: under amended legislation). (1) When the present structure is due In reply to a question by the hon. mem- for complete renewal which should not ber on 6/3/52, the answer related only to be for some years. evictions In the metropolitan area under (2) Both labour and material are in- the amended rent legislation. volved and the demand for essential works is too insistent to allow of renewals such The question of the 12th instant was not as this being undertaken before the work confined to the amended rent legislation is absolutely necessary. and the answer given related to all evic- tions and Included 19 In country areas and (c) As to Warning Signals, Caledoniant 11 emergent evictions not under the Avenue Crossing. amended rent legislation. Mr. OLDFIELD asked the Minister rep- The difference between the 250 plus 23 resenting the Minister for Railways: and 299 includes 17 country evictions and (1) When will flash-light warning sig- nine emergent evictions prior to the 6th nals be placed at the Caledonian-avenue March, 1952. crossing? (2) Will he ensure that when such sig- RAILWAYS. nals are installed that they be fitted with (a) As to Standard Gauge, Kalgoorlie- a warning bell as at Meadow-st. crossing, Perth Section. to be an effective warning of approaching engines to the blinded residents of the Mr. KELLY asked the Premier: area? (1) Is he aware that Senator McLeay, The MINISTER FOR EDUCATION re- Minister for Shipping and Transport, Plied: stated in Canberra on the 13th February, (1) Caledonian-avenue presents certain 1952, that the standard rail gauge of 4ft. technical difficulties, some of which are Shin, from Brisbane to Perth would be also present at Swan-st., North Fremantle. completed within two years? Special equipment is on order for both (2) That an agreement existed between crossings, and that for Caledonian-avenue the Commonwealth and South Australian will be Installed when the problems at Governments whereby the Commonwealth Swan-st. have been solved by practical ex- would finance '70 per cent. of the cost and perience. South Australia 30 per cent.? (2) This will be considered. (13 March, 1952.] 197797

(d)' As to Compensation for Chord Line AGRICULTURE. Resumptions. As to File on Kudzu. Mr. BRADY (without notice) asked the Minister representing the Minister for Mr. KELLY asked the Minister repre- Railways: senting the Minister for Agriculture: (1) Can he state when the people of Has the Department a file on Kudzu? Bassendean whose property is to be re- If so. would he lay it on the Table of the sumed for the purpose of the proposed House? new chord line will be compensated? (2) Can he expedite the settlements on The MINISTER FOR LANDS replied: the property concerned? The file dealing with this fodder plant The MINISTER FOR EDUCATION re- can be made available at the Department plied: of Agriculture. (1) and (2) I understand from the Min- ister for Railways that the settlement of FISHERIES. these claims will take place as quickly (a) As to Under-sized Crabs, as possible, but I think the best course Prosecutions. I can pursue is to bring the hon. mem- ber's question under the notice of the Min- Mr. KELLY asked the Minister for ister for Railways and ask him to supply Fisheries: the information. This I will do. (1) How many prosecutions have been recorded since the 1st November, 1951, GOLD. until the 1st March, 1952, of persons As to Sales on Free Market, Etc. caught with under-sized crabs? Mr. KELLY asked the Premier: (2) How Many prosecutions in that period covered activities in the Swan (1) Has he received a current report river? from the Gold Producers' Association in- dicating- The MINISTER replied: (a) quantity of gold disposed of on (1) None. the free market since the 1st September, 1951; (2) Answered by I. (b,) what average price per fine oz. (b) As to Profit on Mandurah Catch. was realised: (c) future prospects as to sales? Mr. KELLY asked the Minister for (2) Is he aware that Canadian gold Fisheries: producers are concerned at the continued (1) Is he aware that in the first week low price for gold being offered on a of the current month many hundreds of "free market" basis? cases of cobblers from Mandurah reached (3) As the Federal Treasurer is re- the metropolitan markets, which realised ported through the Prime Minister to have less than twopence per pound, and that no complete or authoritative knowledge of a large quantity of this fish was retailed premium markets, will he undertake some at not less than is. per pound? other means of getting this information (2) Does he consider this a reasonable for the gold mining industry of this State? margin of profit? If not, what action was (4) Has the State Government any taken by the Prices Branch? fixed policy for the immediate future of (3) Were there any prosecutions? gold mining in Western Australia, and if The MINISTER replied: so, what is the general outline? (1) No. The PREMIER replied: (2) The maximum prices for each type (1) No report has yet been received of fish are specifically fixed. Margins are from the association which only came not added by the retailer to cost. The into being in December last. It is under- approved prices for Cobbler are:- stood however that all gold produced since Headed November less Australian requirements and gutted-Fisherman's, lid. has been sold at a premium. lb.; Wholesale, 1s. lb.; Retail, (2) No. Is. 4d. lb. Not headed and gutted-Fisherman's, (3) Information on this position will be 6d, lb.; Wholesale, 7d. lb.; Retail, sought. 9d. lb. (4) It is the policy of the State Gov- (3) No. If the fish were sold whole- ernpment to do everything possible to en- sale and retail at prices not in excess of sure the future of the gold mining indus- those shown above, the question of prose- try. cution does not arise. It has been closely associated with all Mr. Kelly: In that case they can get approaches to the Commonwealth Gov- 600 per cent. without any difficulty. ernment regarding some increased price for E~uld. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! 1978 1978ASSEMBLY.]

t c) As to Investigating Scollop Bets. The MINISTER FOR EDUCATION re- plied: Mr. GRAYDEN asked the Minister for Fisheries: (1) The Minister is aware that certain complaints have teen submitted by a sec- (1) Is he aware that the Federal Min- tion of the residents at Tuart Hill. These ister for Agriculture and Commerce has complaints have been investigated. intimated that he will favourably consider (2) The present service is considered any request which may be made by the reasonable and will be increased from time ,Government of Western Australia for a to time as may be warranted by the de- C.S.I.R.O. fishing research vessel to de- velopment of the area. termine the location and extent of scollop beds which are known to exist off our ANGLO-IRANIAN OIL CO. LTD. South-West coast? As to Capital and Shareholding. (2) Is he aware that the scollop fishing in Tasmania is a large and prosperous in- Mr. W. HEGNEY asked the Minister for dustry and that an unlimited demand Works: -exists for them, both In the Eastern States (1) What is-- and in the U.S.A.? (a) the nominal capital; (3) As the development of our scallop (b) the paid-up capital; beds could lead to the establishment of (c) the subscribed capital an industry comparable with our cray- of the Anglo-lranian Oil Co. Ltd,? fishing industry, wiUl he consider ap- (2) What is the extent of the respective proaching the Commonwealth Govern- amounts of shareholding, if any, in the ment with the object of obtaining the company, by Research services of the Commonwealth (a) the Commonwealth of Aus- vessel ? tralia; The MINISTER replied: (b) Royal Australian Navy; (1) No. (c) the British Government; (2) I am aware that scollops are an (d) the British Navy? important item ofT production in Tasmaia. The MINISTER replied: (3) Yes. (1) and (2) This information is not TRANSPORT. available in the department. (a) As to Trolley-Bus Stop, Mount WAR SERVICE LAND SETTLEMENT. Hawthorn. As to Applications and Allot-ments. Mr. W. HEGNEY asked the Minister Mr. GRAHAM asked the Minister for representing the Minister for Transport: Lands: Wiln he give favourable consideration to (1) What is the total number of applica- the request of residents of Mount Haw- tions for War Service Land Settlement thorn that Fairfield-st. (corner of Scar- farms? borough-rd) be made a stopping place for (2) How many applications are out- trolley-buses on the inward journey to standing? Perth at least? (3) When is it anticipated that farms The MINISTER FOR EDUCATION re- will be allocated to unsatisfied applicants? plied: The AMSTER replied: A similar request was received last (1) One thousand five hundred and nine- September and the matter was then in- teen qualified applicants. vestigated. There has not been any (2) Seven hundred and ninety-five altered circumstance which would war- qualified applicants. Of this number, ap- rant the creation of .an additional stop proximately 160 may not now be interested. at Fairfield-st. (3) Dairy farmers-One to two years. Other applicants-Time will vary accord- (b) As to Tuart Mill Service. ing to heavy 'dozers being available and Mr, W. HEGNEY asked the Minister rep- willingness of applicants to assist in de- resenting the Minister for Transport: velopmental work. The objective of the Land Settlement Board is three years. (1) Is he aware that there is still strong dissatisfaction among residents of Tuart PRINCESS MARGARET CHELDREN'S Hill due to the refusal or inability of the HOSPITAL. North Beach Bus Coy. to maintain an effi- cient service through the district? As to Finances and Chinese Patient. (2) Will he take necessary action to Mr. GRAHAM asked the Minister for ensure an efficient service by the company, Health: and in the event of its failure will he (1) What was the total income and undertake that either some other company sources thereof, and the total expenditure or the State service will meet the trans- of the Princess Margaret Children's Hos- port needs of the district? Pital for the last 112 months? 113 March, 1952.] 197997

(2) Is it a fact that a Chinese girl has each year, wvill she extend this concession been an inmate of the hospital for the to all Ooldfields nurses in Government past four or five years, and is likely to employment? remain there for a further two years? The MINISTER replied: (3) Are not her parents, who reside in (1) No. Singapore, exceedingly wealthy? (2) Yes. (4) Is it true that no hospital fees have been paid in respect of this child? (3) It is not a fact that almost all Gov- taxpayers? ernment employees receive free passes but (5) Is this fair to local it is a provision under the award to give (6) Is this fair to members of those trainee nurses a free rail pass to their local organisations which raise funds to home town when on annual leave. provide additional amenities, etc., at' the hospital? CEMENT. (7) Could not the parents of the child in question have paid for treatment in a As to Increasing Supplies. private hospital? Mr. SEWELL asked the Premier: (8) What does she intend to do about In view of the extreme shortage of local cases of this nature? cement, and the control placed on im- ports of this commodity by the Common- The MINISTER replied: wealth Government, will he state what (1) Income- action the Government is taking to in- crease supplies? Commonwealth F'unds ... 34,196 State Funds ...... 109.364 The PREMIER replied: Fees 5,033 The Minister for Housing yesterday in- Donations 1,486 formed the House of steps taken to in- Miscellaneous ... 1,193 crease production from existing works. The Government has for some time been 151,277 engaged in discussions which it is hoped ...150,228 will lead to the establishment of a second Expenditure cement works in this State. Details of (2) The child was admitted on the 8th these discussions cannot be divulged at December, 1948, and will probably be ready present. for discharge in about six months. Such a project in any case could not get (3) Reputed to be wealthy. into production for two or three years. (4) Yes. The child is in a public ward The Government is therefore approaching bed, for which no charge can be made. the Federal Government for permission to The hospital authorities have approached import such quantities of cement as are the parents for a substantial donation. essential for carrying on works, housing (5) The circumstances are unusual in and general State development. this isolated case. GUJILDFORD ROAD. (6) Answered by (5). (7) Owing to the nature and duration As to Declaring Main Thoroughfare. of the illness, medical opinion is that the Mr. OLDFIELD asked the Minister for child could not have been satisfactorily Works: treated in a private hospital. (1) Will he be gazetting Guildford-rd (8) It is expected that when a new as a main road? hospital benefits agreement is negotiated (2) If the answer to (1) is in the nega- with the Commonwealth, provision will tive, what assistance will the P.W.D. give be made for this type of case. to the local authorities concerned? (3) When is it expected to start putting GOLDFIELDS NURSES. this road in order? As to Free Railway Passes. (4) If no decision has been reached, Mr. MOIR asked the Minister for when will it be decided as to what action Health: can and will be taken? (1) Is~ she aware that nurses employed The MINISTER replied: at the Kalgoorlie District Hospital, and (1) it is not proposed to gazette Guild- who have their homes in the metropolitan ford-rd. as a main road. area, are supplied with free rail passes (2) The local authorities concerned when returning to their homes on holi- have been requested to formulate pro- days? posals to rehabilitate the road over a (2) Is she aware that nurses who have period of years. Government assistance their homes in Kalgoorlie or Boulder are will be determined when these proposals not supplied with such passes? are submitted. (3) In view of the fact that almost all (3) Commencement is dependent on Government employees on the Goldfilds (2). receive free passes to proceed on holidays (4) A decision is also dependent on (2). 1980 1980[ASSEMBLY.)

SWAN RIVER POLLUTION. PRICES CONTROL. As to Waste Disecharged from Brewery. (a) As to Staff and Cost. Hon. J. B. SLEEMAN asked the Attor- Mr. GRAYDEN asked the Minister for Works: ney General: (1) Is he aware that a drain from thie (1) Will he inform the House as to the Emut Brewery discharges into the Swan number of people employed in the Price River below Spring-st.? Fixing Commission in the State of West- ern Australia? (2) Is he aware that large amounts of solids are contained in the water from (2) What is the cost of employing this drain? them? (3) Has any calculation been made of The ATTORNEY GENERAL replied: the amount of wastes discharged from the (1) One hundred and five persons are drain? at present employed in the office of the (4) Has any action been taken to have Prices Control Commissioner. these wastes diverted to the sewerage sys- (2) The expenditure incurred by the tern? Prices Control office for the six months The MINISTER replied: ended 31/12/51 was as follows:- (1) Yes. £ s. d. Salaries ...... 40,508 0 10 (2) Yes. Other ...... 6,414 7 2 (3) Yes. £46,922 8 0 (4) Investigations have been made and proposals are being considered. Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: What does the (b) As to Dry Cleaning Charges. drain discharge into the river? H-on. A. R. G. HAWKE (without notice) asked the Attorney General: CO-ORDINATOR OF WORKS. Is he aware that the lifting of price control on dry cleaning activities was As to Trip Abroad. immediately followed by a price increase? Hon- J. B. SLEEMAN asked the Min- If so, can he indicate to the House what ister for Works: he proposes to do about it? (1) Has he seen the report in "The The ATTORNEY GENERAL replied: West Australian"'. credited to him, that Yes. I am aware of that. The Prices Mr. Dumas is to be sent abroad in order Commissioner advised me that he would to report on the possibility of using Collie make a recommendation to me of an in- coal in low-grade furnaces for the expan- crease of 121 per cent. in respect of dry sian of other industries in Western Aus- cleaning. On further consideration I de- tralia, and also f or the revising of the cided it would be better-to de-control dry plan for the extension of the Fremantle cleaning and, as a result, the increases Harbour? have not amounted to what was predicted (2) Would it not be better to send Mr. by the Prices Commission. Dumas' successor rather than an officer Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: They soon will. who is just finishing up his term with the Department, and also could not the re- FOUNDRY FUEL. vising of the plan be left to Mr. Tydeman, As to Waste-Wood Briquettes. the officer who designed the proposed Fremantle Harbour plan? Mr. OLDFIELD (without notice) asked The MINISTER replied: the Minister for Industrial Development: (1) Has an application been received (1) Yes. from J. KC.Young for financial assistance (2) (a) No. Mr. Dumas' long experi- to enable him to embark upon full pro- enice as Director of Works is an import- duction of a foundry fuel briquetted from ant factor in respect to a selection of a waste woods? suitable officer to undertake the particular enquiries now intended on behalf of the (2) If so- Government. (a) Is consideration being given to the proposals submitted by J. K. (b) The review of all engineering plans Young? which might be affected by the proposed oil refinery construction is being under- (b) Will a full investigation be made taken by a committee of two engineers, of the possibilities of this pro- Mr. Dumas and Dr. David Brisbane. Mr. duct? Tydeman will be fully consulted on any (3) Is it not a fact that certain proposal for alteration of existing harbour foundrymen have intimated their desire plans. for an intention of using this fuel? (13 March, 1952.1 198198

The MINISTER replied: is £10 14s, 1d. a week and workers who (1) Yes. are in receipt of £14 a week. have their same family commitments, but are only (2) (a) Yes. entitled to benefits under the provisions (2) (b) Some inquiries have been of the old Act if injured before the pass- made. ing of the 1951 measure. (3) One such person advised me that The tendency is for the basic wage to samples used by him had been satisfac- increase-both the State and the Federal tory. basic wage have shown this tendency and they are bound to increase in the next BILL-WORKERS' COMPENSATION few months. It may be thathe Attorney ACT AMENDMENT (No. 21. General will say. "We will give considera- As to Leave to Introduce. tion to such an amendment next August or September." But that is six months hence and the efficacy of the amendment MR. W. HEGNEY (Mt. Hawthorn) will have largely disappeared. Unfortun- 14.51: 1 move- ately there will be workers who will be For leave to introduce a Bill for an still incapacitated with injuries received Act to amend the Workers' Compen- before the passing of the 1951 Act. sation Act, 1912-1951. I hope, therefore, there will be no op- I would like briefly to indicate that the position to leave being given to introduce purpose of the amendment is to give to this Bill, and that no technical point will those workers who were injured before the be taken as to its validity or otherwise. passing of the 1951 Act and who are still I have consulted various authorities-in- incapacitated, and also to those workers deed I think you, Mr. Speaker, are the who were injured before the passing of the only authority I have not consulted-on Act and suffered a recurrence of the In- the constitutional aspects of such an jury after the Act was passed, the bene- amendment, and they are all in favour of fits of the provisions of the Workers' Com- it and say that the Bill is quite In order. pensation Act, 1912-1951. The Attorney General; Was not that THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Hon. A. considered this year? V. ft. Abbott-Mt. Lawley) [4.81:. As some comment has been made on this pro- Mr. W. HEGNEY: I will deal with that posal I intend to make a. few remarks. aspect in a moment. The position is that First of all. I would emphasise that the in 1948 the present Minister for Educa- position of the Government has been that tion who was in charge of the Bill was during this meeting of Parliament only good enough to make such provision. It the two Bills specifically proposed by the was clarified by an amendment in 1949, Government should be dealt with. That and all those types of workers that I have still stands. mentioned received the full benefit of the 1948-49 amendments. All that we seek Hon. J. T. Tonkin: 'Has not Parliament to do is to carry on that principle, and a say?9 I hope that there will be no opposition to The ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, of the proposed amendment. The Attorney course! The hon. member is fully aware General asked whether consideration was that this is a legal and technical difficulty not given to this proposal. I regret to and it is not an easy one to solve, be- say that he gave it scant consideration- cause it is necessary that at some date very scant consideration Indeed. As a the liability of an employer should be matter of fact, the point was taken on crystallised. In every Act in Australia the question as to whether the proposed and Great Britain it is crystallised at the amendment was valid or not. date of the accident, and this State has Without detracting from any ruling you merely followed what is now law in every may have given, Mr. Speaker, and merely other State in Australia anti in Great to show how the same matter can be dealt Britain. It would cause a good deal of with in different ways by various Houses. confusion if it were not so because one it may interest you to know that an would not know his exact liability. Not amendment which was not allowed in this only that, it would cause a, great deal of Chamber was ruled as being in order by dissatisfaction because one day a lump the President in'another place. All that sum settlement might be contracted for It am anxious to do is to help the workers. and settled on, and then such an amend- I think the members of the Government ment is made and no redress is giv~n. would appreciate the position and hope So, if one takes all the circumstances they will have due regard and sympathy into consideration I think it is easily seen for the proposal. When the 1948 amend- that the proper date is the one that is menit was inaugurated at the instira- universally accepted for crystallisation of tion of the present Minister for Educa- the liability and that is the date when the tion, the basic wage, speaking from mem- accident occurs. What would be the posi- ory, was £t5 l5s. Gd.. and the maximum tion if, as has happened before, the basic weekly compensation was raised, from wage declined? Should that ocur, Is -the £4 l0s. to £6 a week. Now the'basic wage Government immediately to recover the 2982 182[ASSEMB3LY.)

extra Payments from the workers con- Hon. A. R. 0. HAWKE: In that case, I cerned, who will be asked to refund the will move that Order of the Day No. I be. payments they have received? Of course postponed until after consideration of not! There are many difficult aspects as- Notice of Motion No. 2. Order of the Day sociated with this matter, and I think the No. 1 deals with a non-controversial mat- decision of the Government on the last ter. occasion was correct and that this proposal The Premier: Then let us clean it up and, could be considered during next session. finish with the Bill. flueton nu and a Aiuicin takean with Hon. A. R. G. HAWKE: I would agree the following result:- to that if the Premier will give me an as- Ayes 16 surance that my notice of motion will be Noes ...... s1 debated. - The Premier: Very well. Majority against 3 -Hon. A. R. G. HAWKE, In the circum- Ayes. stances, I will not proceed with the motion Mr. Brady Ar Jonhnson I have indicated. Mr. Cornell Mr. McCulloch Mr. Coverley Mr. Moir BILL-INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT Mr. Graham Mr. Rodoreda Mr. Guthrie Mr. Sewell (KWINANA AREA). Mr. Hawke Mr. Sleemnan Second Reading. Mr. W. Megn Mr. Toiniin Mr. Hoar Mr. Kelly Debate Teller.) resumed from the 6th March. 3en. HON. J. T. TONKIN (Melville) [4.16]: Mr. Abbott Mr. Hutchinson It will be readily appreciated that some Mr. Ackland Mr. Manning Mr. Brand Mr. McLarty action must be taken to prevent wide- Mr. Butcher Mr. Ninuno spread speculation in land, which will. Dame F. Cardell-Oliver Mr. Oldfteld Mr. Doncy Mr. Thorn undoubtedly occur as a result of the pro- Mr. Orayden Mr. Watts jected establishment of a very large in- Mr. Griffith Mr. Wild dustry at Kwinana. Because of the very Mr. Hearman Mr. Bovell Mr. Hill1 (TelleR. strong demand that will ensue for ad- jacent sites, there is bound to be keen Pairs. Ayes. Noes. competition for land, and the sellers will Mr. Makrsha-ll Mr. Nalder be able to ask almost any price. It is Mr. Nulsen Mr. Mann therefore very desirable and necessary Mr. Styatnts Mr. Perkins that some steps be taken to prevent such Mr. Needham MrT.Yates Mr. J, Hegney Mr. Totterdell widespread speculation, and so regulate prices to what is reasonable. I do not Question thus negatived; leave refused. know that any member of this Chamber would quarrel with that desire and in- NOTICE OF MOTION. tention. The power which is being sought under As to Position on Notice Paper. the Bill is no less than that which is HON. A. R, 0, HAWKE: On a point of possessed by the Soviet, to the extent information, I desire to refer to the notice that it is completely totalitarian; which- paper. I observe that the notices of motion ever way we look at it, the power is con- have been divided. The first notice is the fiscatory. It proposes to take away from one in the name of the member for Mt. individuals land that they possess and Hawthorn, who sought leave to introduce which they may have intended to use for a Bill to amend the Workers' Compensa- specific purposes, and it will have the tion Act, and the second, of course, stands effect of preventing those people from in my name. The two notices of motion carrying out such purposes. It will pre- have been separated by the Order of the vent them from gaining any financial ad- Day relating to the second reading debate vantage that might have accrued to them on the Industrial Development (Kwlnana through their foresight, and it will permit Area) Bill. I would like to know from the Minister to do what he likes you. Mr. Speaker, whether the separation with the land. That is the effect of the two notices of motion was due to of the Bill-to take away something a mistake in the preparation of the notice which belongs to someone else, and allow paper or was done by direction of the the Minister to do what he likes with Leader of the Government. it under his own conditions. Further- more, should he allow someone to make Mr. SPEAKER: I am advised that the use ott the land, he can impose the con- normal course has been pursued in the ditions under which it shall be held and matter. dealt with. H-on. A. R. 0. HAWKE: Would I be In I agree it is necessary that some con- order in moving that notice of motion trol be taken, but it is remarkable that No. 2 be now taken? the Political party which has preached Mr. SPEAKER: A motion to that effect against controls and which really secured tan be moved and voted on. power through making promises about all [13 March, 1952.] 1983;ss and sundry matters, including the lifting some disagreement along the lines I have of controls, should come forward now indicated. Therefore I indicate a general with a proposal for absolute control such acceptance of the Bill, stating again that as this. Nothing could be more com- at the appropriate time I shall endeavour plete or more confiscatory than this. I to secure an amendment to provide a am not prepared to allow this tremendous reasonable safeguard so that persons power to be reposed in one Minister. I whose land is to be confiscated will receive am not clear which Minister is meant fair treatment and that the land will be but, even if I were, I should still not be used for a specific and proper purpose. satisfied to leave the decision to one Minister. On a hot night, he could be- I repeat that I am not clear as to come inebriated. which Minister is intended, but that makes no difference. In view of the- The Minister for Lands: Quite easily. powers being sought, I consider it is not TONKIN: Yes, and Make right that they sbould be placed in the Hon. J. T, hands of one man. This would be very, a decision that would be a very bad one. bad in a democracy, though all right in- The Minister for Lands: One should a totalitarian country because that is part Dot make decisions when one is inebri- of the setup in such a country, but it ated. is quite foreign to our belief regarding the way things ought to be carried on- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: But they are made Pro vision ought to be made for consul- at such a time. tation between and consideration by Develop- several rather than that one person The Minister for Industrial should deal with the matter and make the ment: Not by this Government. decision. Hon. A. R. G. Hawke: The Minister power. With the best intention in the world, could be intoxicated with a Minister, relying upon his own judg- The Minister for Industrial Develop- ment, might make a very grievous error ment: There is no fear of that. and, as a result, do a serious wrong to some party or parties. If we make pro- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: When the Gov- vision for consideration of the intended ernment proposes to leave it to one Minis- action by somebody else, we shall pr'ovide ter to exercise confiscatory power of this a safeguard which, in my view, 'is very sort, I consider it to be bad legislation. necessary in order to eniu'e that in the Therefore I intend at the appropriate difficult circumstances that may arise, time to offer an amendment to one justice will be done. I support the of the clauses of the Bill that will second reading. permit of someone else having a say with regard to what the Minister intends to do, before he actually does it. MR. JOHNSON (Leedervllle) [4.26]: I ter's intention is a correct Ifone, the heMinis- will wish to ask a couple of questions which have nothing to fear from my proposed I should like the Minister to answer. amendment, because the course would be Consideration of the Bill has brought recommended and the Minister could those questions to my mind, one of them carry it out. if, on the other hand, the being the date of expiry. I understand course he proposed to follow were not re- that the Co-ordinator of Works is to go garded as being sound, the recommenda- abroad and find a town planner, who is tion would be against it and the Minister to produce a plan as required under this would not be permitted to proceed. That measure. As the Co-ordinator of Works is a reasonable safeguard in the circumn- has not yet left the State and has not stances. found the town planner or brought hint If the power proposed to be given were here and as the town planner has not not so wide and extensive, I might be seen the land, it appears to me that the prepared to allow the Minister to act period of 20 months specified in the Bill alone on the ground of expedition, but may not be sufficient. The Minister this is a very wide power going far be- might consider whether he should extend yond anything I would have expected the period. from the Government in view of its pre- Secondly, I am not quite conversant vious protestations. ]Force of necessity. with the term "set apart" which is used however, has made a very deep impression in relation to the land to be taken or upon a majority of the Ministers. if not resumed. If I may apply the usual mean- all of them, and so we have this Bill be- tIg to the term, I would conclude that the fore us. land at present in Private ownership may A measure somewhat like this is un- be embargoed under the plan and remain doubtedly required, because we could not in private ownership. I feel that the leave the position wide open so that spec- tenn "set apart" should also be added to ulation would be rife and prices would the clause dealing with compensation, become fantastic. With the general prin- because members will appreciate that ciple, I have no cause to disagree, but with Privately-owned land embargoed for a the very wide powers being sought, I have Purpose different, from that for which It 1984 1084[ASSEMBLY.]

Is at present being used could require point, I desire the Minister to give me compensation and lead to an Increase in one or two explanations. One is on the the value of the land according to the question of value. The Bill provides, in terms of such setting apart. order to prevent wholesale land specula- tion, that values shall be fixed as at the I know some of the lKwinana area fairly first day of January, 1952. How are those intimately. Were it required by the plan values to be determined and who will be that an area now used as a flower farm the people to determine them? The first were to be used for a tannery, the value of January, 1052, is some time between of that land would change immediately. the period when the oil refinery was The Minister, in moving the second read- rumoured to be coming to this State and ing, said it was necessary to allow a the period when it w7as actually known mortgagee in possession when selling to that the Anglo-Iranian Company in- dispose of the land free of all encum- tended to establish the industry here. brances, in effect, because it was difficult to make the requirements of the law stick. No doubt the Minister will say that I consider it Is not beyond the capability that would be a reasonable date at which of the Minister or his advisers to draft to fix the values, but I want to know how the law in such a manner that it would they are to be determined. Then, when stick and, if this measure is not so drafted, they are fixed, how will individual people it should be withdrawn and so dealt with. who own this land be affected? May I put it this way? There is an area of If, as appears to me, being uninitiated, land described in the schedule of which it is capable of being made to hold, I the Government will require to take a then consider that the clause freeing the certain amount for the purposes of the land from conditions, if it is held by a refinery. Let us assume for a moment mortgagee in possession, should be with - drawn because there is power in a later that the value fixed according to the clause authorising the Minister to vary Bill on one area of land is £100. The any of the conditions. That variation person who owns that block may have it also includes the total removal of the pre- taken from him by the Government for vious banning. I reel that this clause is the purpose of establishing thereon a one that will give rise to the possibility school. of faking. If an owner were to find that The person who owns a block of land under the plan his land had been tagged adjacent to the one I have mentioned for a purpose with which he did not agree, could, if he so desired, trade in it. He there would be nothing at all to prevent could dispose of the fee simple or enter his mortgaging it, breaching his contract, into a contract of sale or a lease, pro- the mortgagee entering into possession. vided he did so with the permission of and selling it free of all encumbrances the Government. When the owner of such and so taking a profit. I feel that is a a block applied to the Government for matter which shotild be given considera- permission to sell and the Government tion. said it did not want that piece of land, I venture to suggest that the price the MR. GRIFFITH (Canning) [4.3 1]: The mnan would obtain by selling it to some member for Melville describes this Bill private individual would be far in excess as a soviet-like measure. I would like of the £100 which would be paid by the to point out to him that all land resump- Government to the owner of the land re- tion Acts could perhaps be referred to su~med. I am certain that the minister as soviet-like in their action because their will agree that that would be the case. So we would have the position that be- effect in many cases is harsh. Sometimes cause one person owns a block which the one could say that their effect would be Government wants he would receive, say, unconscionable. The existing land re- £100: while the person whose land was sumption Acts have that effect, but I am next door and was not required by the certain that the hon. member will agree Government could sell the property and that for a Government to have power of ask almost any figure he wanted for it. land resumption, although it could be I would like the Minister to give me some harsh, is very necessary; and, with the explanation in that regard. experience I have had of listening to the member for Melville, I think he would be There is another matter which con- the first person to criticise any Govern- cerns me and that is the finality of this ment which did not in this instance pro- position. When are the people who own tect the taxpayers' money by introduc- land in the Kwlnana area to be told ing a. Bill to prevent wholesale land whether or not that land is required? I speculation. am still being asked when the Govern- ment intends to make certain decisions This Bill throws a. blanket over an area in' connection with land which was to of land, but it is not the Government's have 'been resumed for the purposes of intention to take for the purposes of the the Welshpool-Bassendean chord line. oil refinery all, the land which is sur- That project is now, held up. I know men rounded 'by the lines marking the' area who uniderstood that their property was In the sced~ule of the Bill. Upon that to be 'resumed for the purposes of this [13 March. 1952.] 1985

line but do not now know where they Therefore it is in the interests of the stand, because there may be a change. taxpayers, as much as anyone else, that I hope that position will not arise in re- the Bill appears before us. gard to the Kwinana land, because it is Hon. J. T. Tonkin: A moment or so most unsatisfactory to land-owners who ago you made reference to a period of desire to dispose of their Property, even 21 months. Where do You get that from? if it is for a profit. Frequently men buy land and hold it with a view to disposing The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL of it subsequently for a profit, and it is DEVELOPMENT: The date In the Bill is only fair and equitable that there should the 31st December, 1953, and this is March, be some determining period other than 1952. A little rough mental arithmetic that stated in the Bill, so that they may arrives at one year and nine months be- know when they are able to dispose of it. tween now and then. Hon. J. T. Tonkin: What has the pre- THE MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL sent date got to do with the date of fixing DEVELOPMENT (Hon. A. F. Watts-Stir- the value, and the date of expiration of ling-in reply) [4.38): 1 thank members power to acquire? for their reception of this measure. Deal- The MINISTER FOR INn WSTRIAL ing first with the remarks of the member DEVELOPMENT: It has nothing what- for Melville, I agree substantially with the ever to do with fixing the value, but if observations made in that connection by the hon. member agrees with me on the the member fot Canning. Resumptions subject, and I think he will, he will find that take place under this measure, if and that the power sought to be exercised when they do take Place, will be effected under the measure must be exercised be- under the Public Works Act, and substan- fore the 31st December, 1953. Therefore tial areas of land have been resumed for 21 months will be the period, I assume, public purposes under that Act by dif- from the passing of the Act. ferent Governments over a very long period of Years. The only substantial difference The question of value, of course, is one in the procedure under that Act, as per- of dating back to the 1st January, which sisting in the past and as it will take place is quite another matter. It will be within in this measure, will be that the values the competence of Parliament in 1953, if it throughout the period the Act Is in opera- so desires, to extend that date. That is the tion will be dated back to the 1st January, answer I would give to the hon. member 1952, a matter of 21 months, as against -the member for Leederville, I think- the normal six months under the Public who referred to the expiry date as being Works Act, and that land can be taken too soon. If by October, 1953, Parliament for purposes not strictly those of public comes to the conclusion that the expiry works as defined by the Public Works Act. date of the 31st December, in the light The principles will be much the same, of what has taken place, or has not been and the assessment of compensation as done, is too soon, then the period can be provided by the Bill will be, I think. extended. But it was considered that at as under the Public Works Act except this stage a great deal could be deter- insofar as provision for the back-dating mined in the course of the 21 months to of the time and value Is inserted in the which I have referred. Already two par- measure. So I suggest that to refer to ties of surveyors are doing the contour the Bill as totalitarian, confiscatory and surveys. It is expected that a townsite so forth, is somewhat unwarranted. It is will be ear-marked before long. not necessary to dwell on that aspect any more because the hon. member was good Certain 1industries, such as the pro- enough to agree that some such Proposal posed cement works, know where they as this was necessary in the Peculiar cir- want to place themeselves In the event cumstances of the case. It was that as- of their becoming established. Other in- pect which I tried to make plain was in quiries are being made. I1 think much my mind when I addressed the House on good can be done between now and the the measure a few days ago. end of December. 1953. and what is achieved will not involve much work to I said that the circumstances in the be carried out by any town planner, be- area were unprecedented, and that no- cause only general principles will require one at that stage could know what the to be laid down in order to determine future would hold, but it was, however, which areas shall be available for par- quite obvious that great advantage could ticular purposes. The period, for the time be taken of the enormous expenditure being, is long enough and should not be which would take Place in the area, and extended without careful consideration that not only the Persons who might de- in Sire land in the vicinity for industrial the future. purposes, but also the taxpayers of the I believe the use of the words "set State, in respect to the need of the Gov- apart" is really on all fours with that ernment for lahd for Public works in con- of the word "resume." I think it is one venient places, could because bf highly of those curious legal Phraseologies where sleculativie prices be deprived df large the same thing is said in three words in- jums of money to the pitflt of those who stead of one. I have always understood had done little 'or nothling to deserve it. that is so, except -that the expression 1986 1986(ASSEMBLY.]

"1set apart" may have more particular they will want to receive and check will reference to land set apart for public pur- be what the value was on the 1st January, poses, such as recreation reserves and so 1952, in the opinion of the persons most on, rather than for other purposes. concerned and the people giving expert The member for Canning gave the im- evidence. I think my remarks cover all pression that hie thought the Bill was to that has been said except what was stated resume land for the purposes of the by the member for Melville in regard to Anglo-Iranian Oil Company. If I did not his proposed amendment, which up to a misunderstand him, that is the impres- few moments ago I had not seen, but of sion he must. have given the House. The which I now have a copy. I think it would measure is niot to do that at all. The be best dealt with in Committee. Anglo-Iranian Oil Company's Bill deals Question put and passed. with the land for that company, and the land connected with that particular con- Bil read a second time. cern is entirely excluded from this meas- ure. The hon. member talked, if I remnem- In Committee. her aright. of the position that would arise if the Government, having taken Mr. Hill in the Chair; the Minister for land under the Bill for the oil company. Industrial Development in charge of the wanted to do something with the block Bill. next door. I assumed he was thinking this Clauses 1 to 4-agreed to. was the Bill under which the company's Clause 5-Power to take certain lands: land would be taken. Well, this measure has nothing to do with the oil company's The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL DE- land. VELOPMENT: According to the memoran- dum handed to me by the member for Mr. Griffith: It is in connection with Melville, it is his intention to seek to the oil company-schools, etc. amend Clause 6. From his second read- The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL ing speech I understood the idea was that DEVELOPMENT: This is not in connec- the taking of the land should be subject to tion with the oil company but the people the consideration of somebody other than who will go there because the oil company the Minister, but by making the amend- is there, or those who go to establish in- ment to Clause 6 I think the hon. mem- dustries to serve them, or to improve the ber would achieve the position that the industrial capacity of the State, and to Minister, having taken the land, would provide the necessaries for life or indus- simply have to ask advice as to what he try that may be required. This is not a should do with it. If that is what the Bill to do anything for the oil company. hon. member intended, I am prepared to discuss it on those lines, but I doubt Mr. Griffith: If the oil company were whether that was his intentioon. not going there, You would not have the Bill. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: There has not been a great deal of time in which to give this The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL matter the thought it requires. On seeing DEVELOPMENT: Precisely! I have al- the need for this amendment, I fastened ready indicated that point as well as I on Clause 6 and it was my intention to could. As I understand the measure-and have the resumption of the land, as well I do niot want to enter into a. controversy as the dealing with it afterwards, under on the point with the hon. member-it the control of more than one man but, on is to ensure that the industries and people reflection, I believe that if the Minister who will go there as a consequence of the knows that, having resumed the land, he oil company's activities can be provided cannot dispose of it in any way, until the for. I would say to the hon. member, in committee which I shall propose has looked furtherance of what I said earlier, that at it, it is unlikely that he will make any the procedure of resumption being under u~nwise acquisition. the Public Works Act, it will naturally be subject to the same principles, except I think my purpose would be com- for the one I have already mentioned, as pletely served by amending Clause 6. have been applied under that Act for though I certainly intend that the many years. business of taking this land and dis- posing of it in any way shall be under The final determination of the value of the control of more than one man. I any particular block as at the 1st January, would like to see the Minister for Lands 1952. in the event of its being impossible dealing with it. When we resume land td reach agreement betwecn the Govern- under the Public Works Act or for in- ment and the individual concerned, must dustrial development purposes, it is the be left to the court of assessors under the Minister for Lands who acts. His officers Public Works Act and that court, I think, are experienced in the acquisition of land is presided over by a Supreme Court judge and have the best knowledge of land, so and sitting on it are representatives of I think that Minister should do the job. both parties. They will finalise the mat- Under the present wording X think it could ter, as they always have done. In this be some other Minister. I am concerned- instance -the evidence as to value that about somebody else having some say as [13 March. 1952.) 19879B

to what is to be done with the land and, The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL while I would prefer that somebody else DEVELOPMENT: I move an amnend- should also deal with theL actual acquisi- ment- tion, lack of time -makes it difficult for me to think of an appropriate amend- That in line 10, after the words ment. I believe my purpose will be met "thinks fit" the following paragraphs by amending Clause 6. be added:- if the Minister will agree with what (b) Before the Minister exercises I am aiming at and will co-operate any Power conferred upon to amend Clause 5. I shall be happy him by paragraph (a) of to do that. I wish to make it clear this section he shall refer his that I believe the business of taking proposal to exercise land for any purpose and disposing the of it for any purpose-this very wide Power to the Advisory Com- power--should not repose in the hands of mittee referred to in para- one individual. It is conceivable that graph (e) of this section. someone might want to establish a hotel, (ci -Unless the Committee ap- which would be a very lucrative business, proves the proposed exer- in the area concerned. I would not like cise of the power the Minis- to be the Minister to make the decision ter shall not exercise it. as to who would be the person to get the allocation of land for that purpose, be- (d)If the Committee recom- cause there would be so much money in- mends to the Minister an al- volved, so much room for thought about ternative proposal for the it and for the wagging of Idle tongues. I exercise of his power, the would not like to be the Minister solely Minister may. but without responsible for making the decision. I being obliged to do so. adopt would like it to be fortified by a recom- the recommendation and ex- mend ation from somebody else. ercise the power accordingiy. The Minister for Industrial Develop- (0) The Advisory Committee ment: Would you care to discuss this with shall consist of four members me for a few minutes? ex officio, namely, the persons Hon. J. T. TONKIN: I will be happy to for the time being and from do so, if that is possible. time to time holdinug respect- The CHAIRMAN: I will leave the Chair ively the offices of- until the t1igig of the bells. Sttizng suspended from 4.57 to 6 p.m. Wi Surveyor G-eneral; (hi) Director of Industrial Clause put and passed. Development; ClauS2! 6-Dealins-, with land taken: (III) A member of the Town The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL Planning Board a s D)EVELOPMENT: The member for Mel- constituted under the ville, as was arranged, has discussed this Town Planning and matter with me and with the Parlia- Development Act, 1929, mentary Draftsman, and amendments to such member to be this clause upon which we are completely appointed by the Mini- agreed have been prepared. I mov. sr:ui and an amendiment- (iv, A representative of That in line 1 before the word the Chamber of Manu- "Any" the letter "a" in brackets, thus factures. "Ca)" and the words "Subject to the provisions of the succeeding para- (f) The four members shatl graphs of this section" be inserted. elect one of their number to he the Chairman of the Coin- In fairness to members. I might state mittee. that this is a preliminary towards a refer- ence of matters affecting the disposal of (g) Any three members shall land under Clause 6 to a committee con- form a quorum. stituted similarly to that set up under the Industrial Development (Resumption of (hi The Committee shall meet at Land) Act, 1945. The proposal of the such times and at such Minister is to be referred to that com- place or Places and shall mittee, and if the committee approves, the transact its business in such proposal Is to be acted uipon: J it manner as it shall determine does not, then the proposal is not to be unless and until regulations acted upon, and if the committee has are Prescribed relating to an alternative proposal it is to be at the those m*atters and w h e n discretion of the Minister whether he ac- regulations are Prescribed in cepts the alternative or not. accordance with the regula- Amendment put and passed. tions. 1988 [ASSEMBLY.)

I think that the subject matter is clear would desire that-and If we are to have enough from the discussion that has proper town planning, the Minister should taken place and the terms of the amend- not be left to decide what type of busi- ments as I have read them out. The ness shall go here or there, but expert committee, constituted under the Indust- knowledge should be brought to bear on rial Development (Resumption of Land) the question. This committee will be so Act, 1945, consisted of the Surveyor Gen- constituted that expert opinion will be eral, the director of Industrial Develop- available for the guidance of the Minis- ment, the chairman of the Town Planning ter and he will be assisted in whatever Board and a representative of the way he will require advice. So I be- Chamber of Manufactures. We have sub- lieve the amendment is a distinct im- stituted, in lieu of the chairman of the provement on the Bill as drafted and I Town Planning Board, a member of the hope the Committee will accept it. I ap- Town Planning Board of which, of course, preciate greatly the co-operative attitude the chairman is one. The possibilities are of the Minister, and we had no difficulty that the chairman of the board may be in deciding as to which was the right going on leave for some time, and as a course to follow. It was then only a mat- consequence a member can be appointed ter of obtaining legal assistance in order to act on the committee in his stead. That that the amendment might be properly is the reason for the slight alteration. framed. and, of course, the committee is called an Amendment put and passed; the clause, advisory committee. as amended, agreed to. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: The amendment is Clause 7-agreed to. designed to do precisely what I suggested Clause 8-Prior consent necessary to ought to be done with this clause, inas- leasing or mortgaging land: much as It provides a necessary safeguard Mr. JOHNSON: I move an amendment- against Ministers being placed in an in- That Subelause vidious position when a decision has to be (3) be struck out. made on the disposal of land for a specific I do so for the reasons I gave earlier and purpose. As I said when speaking before. because the Minister did not reply in de- I would not like to be the Minister whose tall on that statement, I feel I am taking sole responsibility It is, for example, to the correct step. The clause opens the determine the site for a hotel and to what way to misuse of legal action to achieve person it was to .be granted. The amend- an objective which Is contrary to that ment will ensure that If the Minister de- Intended by the Bill. The method which sires to dispose of the land in a certain way could be adopted under the clause would his proposal shall be examined and re- be a slow-moving one, but anyone with ported upon by a competent and repre- a legal knowledge could see it is quite sentative committee. If that committee possible. That Is, a person entering into agrees with the Minister's proposed action possession of land which has some condi- it will recommend accordingly and the tion attached to it under the terms of this Minister can then proceed. If the commit- legislation could, with the consent of the tee disagrees with the Minister's Inten- Minister, take out a mortgage with some- tion he will not be able to proceed and, body other than the Minister, make de- further, if it submits some alternative fault, go through the steps leading to fore- then, quite rightly, the closure and sell, and in that manner avoid recommendation the reservation that the Minister had, Minister is not obliged to accept it. quite rightly, placed upon it. So this is not an attempt to over-ride the power of the Minister and render him Sitting suspended from 8.15 to 7.30 p.m. merely a cypher, but it Is a very necessary safeguard against errors and actions which Mr. JOHNSON: I feel that the authority might not be correct. Not that I have any included in Clause 10 to amend the pros- fear that a Minister would deliberately set criptions which may be placed on land himself out to do something that was is sufficient to cover the requirements of wrong, but he could Quite easily be mnis- a mortgagee entering into possession, and Informed on a point or led astray by for that reason I move my amendment. strong representations and he could, quite The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL conceivably, although acting in all good DEVELOPMENT: I hope the hon. faith, make a bad decision. I consider that member will not press this amendment. it is essential that other minds should During the second reading I endeavoured have an opportunity of considering any to explain that the insertion of this pro, proposed action to be taken by a Minis- vision in the measure was deemed abso- ter, and here we are inserting a provision lutely essential to ensure that moneys can enabling experts In their particular line be raised on land which is subject to to examine any proposal. conditions such as this. Mortgagees, it is most desirable that the Town particularly banking institutions-and Planning Board should have some say in here I would suggest that the hon. the use and disposal of land. Unless the member who has moved this amendment Town Planning Act is to be completely may have had some experience prior to over-ridden-and I do not think anybody his entry into Parliament-with their [13 March, 1952.] 198998 attitude towards securities, will be most That provision- is on all fours with what unlikely, I would suggest, to lend money is in this measure and it was inserted if the realisation by themselves is to be after long experience of the Land Act, such that restrictive conditions are im- and the difficulties that trustees and posed which may hamper the realisation others who had land vested in them of their securities and the recovery of for any specific purpose had of rais- their money if the worst comes to the ing money for the carrying out of worst. improvements or works upon the lands in question because upon realisation the land I1 am aware that it is Possible for the would be subject to the restrictions, con- steps to be taken along the lines suggested ditions and reservations and therefore by the hon. member but in my experience mortgagees would not lend the money. of legislation of similar character those I am advised that on more than one steps have not been taken, and these occasion, in order to enable the moneys moneys in the great majority of cases, to be raised, special legislative enact- if not in all cases, will be raised under ments have been put through Parliament this measure for the purpose of improving in spite of certain reservations from time the land by the erection of buildings for to time providing that the mortgage industrial or other such purposes thereon. money might be raised and the mortgage In consequence It is extremely unlikely executed notwithstanding these reserva- that any such happening would occur. tions. One has to realise that it is difficult So the advice I have received and the enough, Particularly in these times, to slight experience I have had in the matter obtain funds for the enlargement or es- can lead me to only one conclusion and tablishment of industry without placing that is that we want to make it reason- the lending institution in the position of ably possible for people to raise money on either running some risk of loss of an the security of land which may have been obvious character or, alternatively, claim- subject to some condition as this. We ing that that would be the position and in would naturally take all the necessary consequence adding to the difficulty of steps to ensure that the money is spent raising the necessary funds. I referred upon the land for the purpose for which to other legislation. There was inserted it was intended. If the position sub- in the Land Act Of 1948 the following sequently arises that foreclosure or sale provision which has been used for half has to take Place under the powers co- a century or more:- ferred on the mortgagee we will have to (4) (a) By order the Governor may relieve the land of these restricted con- direct that any land shall be granted ditions, otherwise great difficulty will be in fee simple to any Person subject to experienced by the mortgagors-as was the condition that the person shall experienced before the passing of the not lease or mortgage the whole or Land Act Amendment Act and which was any part of the land without the the reason for its passage-in raising consent of the Governor and subject money and in consequence render them to such other conditions and limita- unable to finance their operations. tions as the Governor shall deem While there is a scintilla of risk that necessary to ensure that the land is at some time or other somebody may used for the purpose. succeed by indirect means, and in spite of all precautions, in taking advantage The purpose being defined as the pur- of this provision, it is not known. I am pose for which the land is reserved pur- advised, to have happened before. I think suant to the provisions of this Act. The it 'is a very small risk we can take on amendment of 1948 went on to provide- this occasion rather than risk the pos- (5) When the mortgagee of any sibility of people, who are bona fide and land mortgaged with the consent of anxious to develop their industry or bus- the Governor, whether before or after iness upon the land, being Prevented from the commencement of the Land Act financing their negotiations. Amendment Act, 1948, completes the Amendment put and negatived. exercise of the Power of sale or fore- closure pursuant to the mortgage, the Clause put and passed. land shall by force of this enact- ment be freed from any trust, con- t.Clauses 9 to 12, Schedule, Title-agreed dition, limitation, or other restriction, created or imposed in relation to the purpose. Bill reported with amendments and the report adopted. (6 The provisions of this section shall apply in respect of all land re- Third Reading. served pursuant to the. provisions of this Act prior to or alter the com- Bill read a third time and transmitted mencement of the Land Act Amend- to the Council. ment Act, 1948. [Resolved: That motions be continued.) 1990 1990[ASSEMBLY.)

MOTION-BROKEN HILL FTY. CO. LTD. objections, The proposals of the Aus- As to Use of Kooian Island Iron-Ore. tralian concern involved no Govern- ment assistance. HON. A. R. G. HAWKE (Northam) We see, therefore, that in January of this [7.44]: 1 move- year two companies, one an exploratory In view of the statement by the company formed in Sydney, having con- Minister for Industrial Development, tacts with substantial English interests. as published in'"The West Austra- and an all-Australian company-the lian" on the 6th instant, wherein he B3roken Hill Pty. Coy. Ltd,-were negotiat- announced the intention of the Gov- ing with the oovernment of this State for ernment to lease under royalty the the purpose of attempting to do something iron ore deposits at Koolari Island. in Western Australia along the lines of Yampi Sound, to the Broken Hill establishing a steel industry. on the 30th Proprietary Company Limited, this January of this year an article was pub- House is strongly of the opinion that lished in "The West Australian" headed no iron-ore should be taken from "Steel Man's Hopes of Decisions." The Koolan Island, except for processing report stated- within Western Australia; the House He was hopeful that present dis- already being aware that the Broken cussions with the Western Australian Hill Proprietary Company Limited Government on the establishment of now controls 38 million tons of iron- a steel industry here would result in ore at Cockatoo Island, Yampi Sound. decisions giving advantage to the State On the 16th October, 1951, the Premier and his company, the general manager spoke at the annual meeting of the Cham- of Broken Hill Pty. Ltd. (Mr. L. Mc- ber of Manufactures. Among other things Lennan) said yesterday. he said- Among other things said by Mr. McLen- It would be the objective of the nan, as reported in the newspaper, "'as the Government to see that whoever following:- might obtain a lease at Yampi Sound Western Australia had certain would take an interest in the de- natural resources which were of in- velopment of Western Australia. terest to his company and he was now He went on to say- discussfig the means by which the The ore should not be just shipped company could be more closely asso- out of the State. ciated with the State's future. In "The West Australian" of the 18Thi On the 21st February the following state- January of this year, there appeared a ment appeared in "The West Australian" report headed "Plans for a Steel Industry under the heading, "B.H.P. Plans Ewiriana in Western Australia." It stated- Steel Mill; Use of Gas from Refinery Likely." The statement went on to say- Representatives of two companies interested in establishing a steel in- The Broken Hill Pty. Ltd. believes dustry in this State would be in Perth that within three years it can have in the near future, the Minister for a 10 in. steel mill operating in this Industrial Development (Mr. Watts) State, it is understood. said yesterday. They would discuss In five years, the company esti- their proposals with him and with mates, it can have an open-hearth various State officers. furnace using gas Supplied from the Mr. Watts said that in both in- proposed Anglo-iranian oil refinery. stances Australian companies were involved. One was an exploratory On the 28th February of this year a state- company formed in Sydney in con- ment appeared in "The West Australian" junction with substantial English headed "W.A. Told to Use its Iron in Bar- steel interests. The other was a well- gaining." The statement, in part, read- known and purely Australian concern. Western Australia has the finest de- Later on the Minister said- posits of iron-ore in Australia, the The first-mentioned company held members of the Fremantle Rotary out hopes for the establishment of Club were told at their luncheon yes- a large-scale iron and steel industry. terday. The speaker was the manager The other company offered the early of the Wundowie Wood Distillation, establishment of a portion of a steel charcoal-iron and steel industry, Mr. industry on a limited scale only. A. C. Harris. Mr. Harris said that at Cockatoo The company the Minister referred to Island, Koolan Island and Koolyan- there is the completely Australian com- obbing, there were 250,000,000 tons of pany. The Minister continued- high-grade ores, In the opening up The Sydney company, however, of new industries in this State, it was wanted Government financial backing to be hoped that the Government of a nature which Presented many would realise what big bargaining difficulties and some considerable power it had. [13 March, 1952.11J 1991

On the 5th March the following state- Bli.P. already controls the iron-ore ment appeared in "The West Austra- deposits at Cockatoo Island, esti- lian"'. mated at 38,000,000 tons. It is under- Cabinet Agrees Over Steel Scheme. stood that these deposits are being in this State. used to the extent of about 1,000,000 Industry to Start tons a year. The State Cabinet yesterday agreed to proposals by the Broken Hill Pty. On the '7th March in this House, I en- Co. Ltd. for the establishment of a deavoured to obtain some information from steel industry in Western Australia. the Minister for Industrial Development. The company will build a suitable The information was not made available, steel rolling mill within the next four The Minister gave the House to under- or five years on a 600-acre site ex- stand that the agreement between the pected to be announced within the company and the State Government was next few days. to be the subject of detailed drafting by legal and technical officers of the Govern- Expressing his satisfaction last night ment and the company, and would take at the company's intention, the Min- some time. I also asked the Minister ister for Industrial Development (Mr. whether he would table any written ad- Watts) said that an agreement would vice or reports on the proposals that he be drawn up for ratification by Par- had received from the Co-ordinator of liament. Works and Industrial Development (Mr. Mr. Watts said that the Govern- Dumas), the Board of Management of the ment would lease to the company, Charcoal Iron and Steel Industry at Wun- under royalty, the iron-ore deposits dowie, and the Under Secretary for Mines at Koolan island, Yampi Sound. (Mr. Telfer). The Minister's attitude to One of the conditions would be that my request was, to refuse to make the in- the ore from Koolan Island must not formation available, saying that all neC- be disposed of outside Australia. cessary information would be given when The establishment of the steel roll- the Bill for the ratification of the agree- ing mill, including wharf equipment, ment was presented to Parliament next roads and other facilities would in- session. volve an expenditure of about It was obvious to me that the Minister £3,000,000 and would, following the had every desire in the world to prevent oil refinery, represent the second most me or anyone else on the Opposition side important step forward in industrial of the House from havlnfg an opportunity progress in the history of the State. of seeing any papers associated with the The Minister then went on to say that negotiations that had been carried on to work would be provided for 200 men in that stage. This was a stage when agree- the steel rolling mill, and that well- ment had been reached on principles, and planned investigations could now be put -very important principles some of them in hand with a view to the development of were. In "The West Australian" of the an integrated steel industry in the know- 7th March there was a reply to my criti- ledge that these would have all the ex- cism as follows:- perience and technical skill of the B.H.P. The Minister for Industrial Develop- behind them. He also said that these ment said yesterday that he had read negotiations had been based on whether with some surprise a statement at- the company would undertake to erect a modern steel rolling mill for the produc- tributed to the Leader of the Opposi- tion of angles, channels, flats, rounds, and tion (Mr. Hawke) regarding the pro- other merchant-size sections and having posed agreement with the Broken Hill a capacity of 50,000 tons a year, which Pty. Co. Ltd. to establish a steel in- was twice the current requirement. dustry in this State. The Minister also said that the mill Mr. Hawke bad said that he could would be regarded as an initial step in hardly believe that the Government the establishment at some future date of had agreed to hand over the Koolan an integrated iron and steel industry for iron-ore deposits in Yanipi Sound to Western Australia. He added that the the company. company has given an undertaking to in- I am sure that, when the whole of vestigate other things, and, in all, the Min- the agreement and the surrounding ister's statement covered a column of space circumstances are placed before Par- in the newspaper. On that day, I gave liament later this year, Mr. Hawke a statement to the "Daily News," which will was published the same afternoon, in find cause considerably to modify the which I expressed my intense dislike of views he expressed. some of the features of the steel agree- Then the Minister gave expression to this ment between the Government and Broken gem- Hill Pty. Co. Ltd. I said- It is, of course, Impracticable. at this I find it hard to believe that the stage to convey in a Press statement Government has agreed to hand the the various advantages to the State, Koolan Island iran-ore deposits to the which I am sure will be apparent t6 company. Parliament. 1992 1992ASSEMBLY.) On the 4th March, the Minister was over- West Australian" a statement headed, flowing with information, because that Is "W.A. Iron-ore Being Shipped to New- the date when he gave the column-long castle." The statement read as follows:- statement to "The West Australian" news- paper, the statement published on the 5th Australian Iron and Steel Ltd., a March. He set out most of the major subsidiary of Broken Hill Proprietary, benefits that would be likely to arise fol- is now sending high-grade iron-ore lowing the decision and action by the from its leases on Cockatoo Island, BH.P, to establish a steel railing mill in Yampi Sound, to Newcastle for treat- this State. The Minister gave the news- ment. paper the broad principles of what had Figures issued by the Mines Depart- been agreed upon between the Government ment show that in the September and the company prior to that time. quarter Australian Iron and Steel lifted an initial shipment of 10,384 Included in the important points agreed tons of ore with an assayed iron con- upon was the decision by the Government tent of 6,500 tons worth £10,297 from to lease, under royalty to B.H.P., Koolan Cockatoo Island, where the company .Island situated in Yampi Sound. As I read has been preparing for some years to from the Minister's statement, he also ship the ore. pointed out the employment benefits that -would develop and the industrial pro- So we can see that this iron-ore is valued .gress that the establishment of this in- on the site at approximately £1 per ton. -dustry would contribute. He indicated the At that valuation, the company has at assurances the company had given to in- Cockatoo Island iron-ore to the value of ,vestigate even greater undertakings than £40,000,000 above high-water mark. I the one included in the agreement to should say there would be iron-ore which establish a steel rolling mill in this State. could be economically recovered below Yet, two days later, on the 6th March, high-water mark of at least 20,000,000 he said, "It is, of course, impracticable tons, valued at perhaps not quite £1 per at this stage to convey in a Press state- ton, because of additional handling costs, ment. the various advantages to the State but valued I should think, by the com- which I am sure will be apparent to Par- pany, at somewhere very close to £1. liament." The B.H.P. company, as indi- At Koolan Island, which is situated very cated in the motion itself, already has close indeed to Cockatoo Island. there is control of the iron-ore deposits at Cocka- above high-water mark approximately too Island. It is estimated that there is 60,000,000 tons of what I understand to be at Cockatoo Island, above high-water the highest quality iron-ore in the world. -level, at least 38,000.000 tons of iron-ore. If we value that iron-ore to the company on the site at El per ton, the company, Mr. Grayden: Is that high-grade ore? if the Government agrees to hand Koolan Island over to it. will have £00,000,000 H-on. A. R. G. HAWKE: Very high- worth of iron-ore put into its hands, and grade, though not quite as high-grade as on our western coastline will then be in Koolan Isiand ore. Therefore, we start possession of at least El00.000.000 worth of on the basis that this company prior to iron-ore above high-water mark. Prob- the recent negotiations being commenced ably the company would be in possession already controlled completely approxi- of another £50,000,000 worth which could mately 40,000,000 tons of iron-ore above be economically recovered below high- high-water mark at Cockatoo Island. a water mark. very great quantity of high-grade ore in- deed. I am given to understand that the There would be only one possible justi- equipment installed at Cockatoo Island fication for any Government in this State by this company to handle the iron-ore handing over the iron-ore deposits at for the purpose of placing it into ships Koolan Island to any company. That to enable it to be transported to New- justification would be if the company con- castle has a maximum Capacity Of cerned, and I would not care what com- 1,000,000 tons per year. In other words, pany it was, bound itself hand and foot, the B.H.P. company will, with the present in the legal sense, to establish without handling capacity installed at Cockatoo any qualification a large-scale iron and Island, still be taking iron-ore from steel industry in Western Australia, and Cockatoo Island in the year 2000. to use all the iron-ore taken from Koolan island to process in the industry estab- In addition to the approximate lished within the State. What has the 40.000,000 tons of iron-ore at Cockatoo Government obtained from the company Island above high-water mark there is, in return for its agreement to hand this of course, a very large quantity of similar huge deposit of valuable iron-ore over ore below high-water mark. I am not to the control of the company? What suggesting for a moment that all the iron- has the Government actually received ore under high-water mark could be eco- from the company? What has the corn- nomically recovered, but I1do suggest very pany bound itself to establish within seriously that a goodly quantity could be Western Australia in return for this price- recovered economically. On the 12th De- less gift of somewhere near £100,000,000 cember, 1951, there appeared in "The worth of high-quality iron-ore? [13 March. 1952.] 199399

The only thing the company has bound Australian," in which he told the public Itself to do which is practical in character that representatives of two companies and which the company will surely do, were then negotiating with the Govern- and be legally bound to do, is to establish ment in regard to the establishment of a steel rolling mill-that Is all-a steel an iron and steel industry in Western rolling mill which will provide employ- Australia. The representatives of B.H.P. ment for only 200 men. This steel rolling would know that the representatives of mill will not process any iron-ore taken the other company were in the field. If from Koolan Island or Cockatoo Island. the representatives of this other Sydney It will not process one ounce of iron-ore. company, which was acting for strong All the iron-ore from Cockatoo and Koo- British steel industries, were in the field, Ian Islands will be taken to New South then B.H.P. had some reason to fear Wales and be processed at Newcastle. It that a company other than the Bli.P. might even receive some additional pro- might get control of Koolan Island iron- cessing at Port Kembla and, when it has ore and it would then, undoubtedly, in been processed into steel billets, it will the process of time establish within Aus- then be shipped from the coast of New tralia-within Western Australia-an iron South Wales to Fremantle and receive and steel industry which would be in such treatment in the steel rolling mill competition with the present Iron and at Kwinana as will be necessary to turn steel industry established by the Bli.P. out the Products referred to by the Minis- at Newcastle In New South Wales. ter in his statement published in "The The Minister for Industrial Develop- West Australian" on the 5th March this ment: Hut you see, the other withdrew year. completely. I should hope that the Government has not Irrevocably committed itself to this Hon. A. R. 0. HAWKE: I am not con- agreement. It would be a political scandal cerned about that. I do not think it of the first magnitude if the Government affects the issue in the slightest degree. had committed itself to the agreement, or The Minister for Industrial Develop- even to the broad principles of it. If it ment: Oh!. has committed itself to hand over Koolan Hon. A. R. G. HAWKE: The fact Is Island to B.H.P. then the Government that at that stage there were two com- deserves to receive not only a direction panies negotiating with the Government from Parliament on the issue but the in connection with the possibility of estab- strongest possible censure from Parlia- lishing a large scale iron and steel indus- ment for having betrayed the best and try in Western Australia. The B.H.P. the long term interests of Western Aus- company could not help but know that tralia in connection with the matter. In the representatives of another company order to emnphasise the point, I would like were in the field. Consequently, the repre- to read again the statement made by the sentatives of the B.H.P. would be even Minister in relation to Koolan Island as more anxious than normally to see that published in "The West Australian" of the iron-ore deposits at Koolan Island the 5th March- were not obtained by any other company, Mr. Watts said that the Govern- but were in fact obtained by the B.H.P. ment would lease to the company Let us say that the representatives of under royalty the iron-ore deposits the other company withdrew completely, at Koolan Island, Yampi Sound. for some reason or other, from the There is no doubt about that. It is as negotiations. That would not lessen in clear and decisive as it could possibly be. any degree the anxiety of BI.., to get Whether the Government is now under control of Koolan Island. Once E... got a complete legal obligation to the com- control of Koolan Island it would be In pany to do this proposed thing I do not the tremendously happy and powerful know, but at least, and beyond any doubt, position of controlling all the worthwhile it is tinder a tremendously powerful moral iron deposits on the coastline of Australia. obligation to lease Koolan Island to Bli.P. It does not need me to say very much to Even if the Government, now that the indicate to members what a tremendously matter is receiving some of the publicity Powverful Position that would be for the which it deserves, desires to go into re- B.H.P. company to be in. verse in respect of Koolan Island, it could We all know that sea transport is much easily find itself in considerable difficulty more economical than land transport- if the company wished to enforce the par- especially in regard to a material such as ticular principle of the agreement on this iron-ore. Consequently the El... repre- point as already approved by the Govern- sentatives would almost fall over them- ment on the one side and the company selves to grasp an opportunity to tie up on the other. in their own hands and under their own It is not difficult to understand why control every coastal iron-ore deposit in B.H.P. would be desperately anxious to Australia; and now they have done that. get a grip of Koolan Island. Earlier in The Government of this State has allowed my speech I read a statement from the them to do it. and in my opinion it is a Minister himself, published in "The West politically wicked thing to have done. As I 1994 1994[ASSEMBLY.] painted out earlier, the B.H.P. already con- By no stretch of imagination could one trols 40,000,000 tons of iran-ore above high think of any stroke of business more dis- water mark at Cockatoo Island, which is advantageous to Western Australia from enough to last it for the next 40 or 50 a long term point of view. The Broken years at the rate at which it is taking the Ill Proprietary Company tried to get ore from the island at present. The B.H.P. hold of these deposits on a previous oc- company also controls a huge deposit of casion, but were then told they could iron-ore in South Australia at a place have them only provided they processed called Iron Knob. So we can see how the all the iron-ore taken from Koolan Island grip of this great monopoly is spreading within this State. That should have been over the continent. the attitude adopted by the present Gov- ernment in its negotiations with the rep- I am not here this evening to criticise resentatives of the company during the Broken Hill Pty. Company as a com- recent weeks; but no. The company said pany engaged in the production of iron to the present Government: "We wilt and steel and many other things, through agree to establish in Western Australia a subsidiary companies, in Australia. I steel rolling mill that will cost us approxi- think the production and technical record mately £3,000,000 and which will employ of the company is something of which permanently 200 men, provided that you every Australian can well be proud-there give us in return a lease aver the iron- is no shadow of doubt about that-but ore deposits at Koolan Island on a royalty at the same time the company is not en- basis." titled to be given an absolute monoply of the iron-ore deposits in Australia which What royalty will the Government are most easily and economically work- charge the company per ton for the iron- able, ore that it is to take from Koolan Island? I imagine it would not charge a royalty of A member of the Government, or any more than ls. per ton, and probably not apologist for the Government in this mat- as much as that. I understand that the ter, might say there is a large deposit figure which has operated for many years of iron-ore at Koolyanobbing some 30 in this State does not exceed 6d. per ton miles north of Southern Cross. So there but, even if the royalty in this case were is, and it is quite good quality iron-ore, 5s. per ton the Government would be too, but the fact remains that it is by no giving the Company, for that considera- stretch of the imagination as economi- tion, iron-ore worth at least £1. per ton cally valuable as the iron-ore deposits on to the company an the site at Koolan our coast at Koolan and Cockatoo Islands. Island. I have never been more convinced No business concern associated with the of anything than I am that the .H.P. production of iron and steel would pre- representatives concerned in these nego- fer to take an inland deposit of iron-ore tiations were out to get control of Koolan as against a deposit on or near the sea Island. It is well known that the steel coast. Any such business concern would rolling mills of the company already be desperately anxious--even though it established in the Eastern States are might not show how anxious it was-ta being worked to only 70 per cent, of their get control of the coastal deposits. full capacity, which means that the B.H.P. could easily, within the frame- I would not be surprised if the com- work of its present milling capacity in pany, during these negotiations with the Eastern Australia, produce many times Government, tried also to get control over more of this partidular commodity than the Koolyanobbing deposits. That would would be its output from the steel rolling be understandable because, as the only mill proposed to be established at Kwin- company in Australia producing iron and ana. steel, its representatives would be keen to secure any iron-ore deposits in the that were worthwhile, The proposal to establish the mill at Commonwealth Kwinana is hopelessly uneconomical from and that would at some time be capable the company's point of view, when con- or being operated in a manner profitable templated separately and alone, but it to the company. There could be no justi- immediately turns into a tremendously fication or excuse far the Government's beneficial and profitable proposal for the having agreed to hand over the deposits company when we see that in return for at Koolan Island to the B.H.P. Fancy doing a comparatively small thing the handing over anything up to £:100,000,000 B.H.P. is to be given control over worth of iron-ore to a company that i3 £100.000,000 worth of valuable high-class going to invest only £3,000,000-for cer- iron.-are on the Western Australian coast- tain-in this State in return: a company line. Any company in the world interested which in return is going to employ only in feeding an already established iron and 200 men in the steel ralline mill that it steel industry would grab at this oppor- will be bound to establish!1 That Is all we tunity. I was amazed, when reading Press are sure of getting in exchange for an reports from day to day, to note how asset worth to this company at least quickly things were happening in regard £100,000,000. to these negotiations. [13 March, 1952.] 199509

The representatives of the company have no present intention, and no inteni- .moved faster then than ever before in tion for many years to come, of establish- their lives, and why not? They were ing any large-scale industrial operations thoroughly entitled to move at jet-pro- in Western Australia. If the Premier and pelled speed to ensure that the offer made the Minister think they have, let them by the Government with regard to Koolan put this proposition to B.H.P.: Let them Island should be signed, sealed and de- say, "Well, we consider that your con- livered before any Public outcry could be trol of 40,000,000 tons of iron-ore at Cocka- raised in this State against the proposed too Island Western Australia has given agreement. What are these other assur- you something of very great value. In ances that the company has given the Gov- return for that we think you ought to ernment worth from a practical point of establish a steel rolling mill in this State. view? They are worth nothing at all be- We think you should agree to do that cause the company will not bind Itself, in without asking the State to give you con- any agreement made with the Govern- trol over any more iron-ore.' ment, to undertake the establishment of additional industries in this State. Does Let the Premier and the Minister put either the Premier or the Minister think that up to B.H.P, and see what the re- be could prevail on the company to bind action will be. Of course it is as obvious itself legally to establish, even on. a small as the noon-day sun on a cloudless day scale, an integrated iron and steel industry that B.H.P.'s overwhelming desire in this in Western Australia? I suggest that the matter is to get a grip on the huge de- Government try that out and, if it does posits of iron-ore at Koolan Island. That not already know what hard-headed is the only matter which concerns them gentlemen it is up against, it will soon to any great extent. find out, if it proceeds on the basis I I know that £3,000,000 for the establish- bave suggested. ment of a steel rolling mill in Western Do the Premier and the Minister think Australia impresses us somewhat because they will be able to prevail on the cbxn- in this State, in. the Years of the past, pany's representatives to bind themselves we have been inclined to think in smal- legally to establish in Western Australia ler sums, But let us dwell for a" second an industry to produce pig-iron from our upon what £3,000,000 means to the Broken iron-ore? If they do have such fanciful Hill Proprietary Company Limited. Why, Ideas they will soon find just what sort it is only cigarette money to a company of of p'wople they are negotiating with. The representatives of the company will not that magnitude! If they were establish- bind themselves legally along those lines. ing this proposed steel rolling mill in I say that no Government is entitled, cur State without having control of under existing conditions, to barter away Cockatoo Island, let alone Koolan Island, the tremendous asset the State has at they would be doing very little for West- Koolan Island simply to obtain for certain ern Australia. a steel rolling mill which will employ 200 Yet the Government has already agreed men. That is chicken-feed, nothing more to give B.H.P. control of Koolan Island than that, when compared with the great iron-ore deposits in return for the estab- asset which the State has already agreed lishment of this comparatively small in- to hand over to the company. dustry; small now to Western Australia Earlier in my speech I quoted from a and of practically no significance at all slatement made in an address given by to B.H.P. on the basis of the standards to the manager of the charcoal-iron industry which they are accustomed. What is at Wundowie to the Premantle Rotary wrong with the Government's insistIng that Club early this year, in which that gentle- B.H.P. continue to control Cockatoo Is- man said that we in this State Possess land and, at the same time, establish a a tremendous bargaining power in the steel rolling mill in this State? What Is iron-ore deposits we have at Koolan Island. wrong with that? What could the rep- Yet this Government has given away that resentatives of BlI.P. justifiably say tremendous bargaining power for a hand- against it? Could they argue that they ful of chicken-feed, speaking in the com- have not sufficient iron-ore available parative sense. We know only too well to allow them to follow that course? that B.H.P. are established upon a tre- mnendous basis in Eastern Australia. We Could they say, "We are very sorry, know to some degree the extent of their Mr. Premier and Mr. Minister for Indus- financial investments over there and we trial Development, but we are short of can quite imagine that, from the business Iron-ore and we could not Possibly think point of view, they would be anxious to of establishing a steel rolling mill in continue to concentrate upon large-scale Western Australia because, if we did, we Production where the production can be would not have enough iron-ore to pro- kept reasonably under the one supervision duce the steel billets in New South Wales all the time. to send over to Western Austtalla to be As a company B.R.P. have never shown rolled In the steel mill you want us to any real, genuine intention of establish- establish in your State." of course the ing an iron and steel industry out of representatives of B.H.P. could not logic- the Eastern States. In my judgment they ally or justifiably say that. They have 1996 1996[ASSEMBlLY.]

ample iron-ore deposits at Cockatoo Is- guaranteed control of anything up to land-a supply for the next 40 years at £100,000,000 worth of iron-ore-the best the Present rate of handling. As a matter in the world-at Koolan Island. of fact, I think it would be safe to say that at the present rate of handling they -All the company has to do in addition to have enough at Cockatoo Island for the establishing its steel rolling mill is to carry next 200 years. out certain inquiries and investigations. It is not bound to do anything beyond But doubtless the rate of taking the that. It stands to reason, in my judg- iron-ore away from Cockatoo Island will ment, that a huge company such as the be speeded up when the company is able B.?.. would prefer to carry on its iron to get its machinery up there fully into and steel activities in New South Wales, operation, and is able to have constructed and to whatever extent it is already carry- sufficient additional Iron-ore carrying ing them on at Whyalla in South Austra- ships to keep the machinery at the island lia. From every point of view it pays the working to full capacity. company to concentrate its activities on the production of iron and steel in those I~n my judgment this matter comes Places. That should be obvious because down finally and almiost completely to the the company has already Invested, I question of whether we are prepared, as should suppose, hundreds of millions of a State, to hand over Koolan Island to Pounds in establishing and operating those the company. That is not the only ques- industries at those centres. Therefore, tion involved, but it Is the overwhelming there would be everything against the one. It is the major question and one company establishing a large scale indus- with which every member of this House try in this State for the production of ought seriously to concern himself, be- iron and steel. cause if Koolan Island is handed over If we give control of the Koolan Island to E.H.P., upon the basis outlined in the iron-ore deposits to this company we are Minister's statement as published in "The absolutely shot in all future years in re- West Australian" on the 5th March this gard to encouraging, prevailing upon or year, Western Australia has lost for all persuading any other company to estab- time the greatest lever which it might lish similar industries In our State. Say otherwise hold to ensure the establish- for argument's sake these negotiations ment within its borders of a large-scale between the E.?.. and the Government completely integrated iron and steel in- break dawn for some reason or other! dustry. Say for argument's sake the Govern- I have no doubt that B.H.P, will carry ment does not bring an agreement to Par- out all these investigations and inquiries liament because of such a breakdown or, which it has assured the Government it let us say that the Government does bring will do when the agreement is legally an agreement before Parliament for rati- finalised and when it has been passed by fication and Parliament rejects the Bill! Parliament, if It ever is passed. Of course What do we lose? We lose the proposed the company would be legally bound to steel rolling mill. We lose the assurance carry out the inquiries and investigations of the proposed inquiries and investiga- concerning the production in this State, tions into the possibility of producing pig- or the possible production in this State, iron and the possibility of establishing a of Pig-iron and the possible establishment large scale iron and steel industry within of a fully integrated iron and steel indus- our State. But we still hold at least try. But the company will not be bound 100,000,000 tons of high grade iron-ore, to go any further than that. What would and wve would always be in a position to be the good of investigations and inquiries negotiate successfully with any other if, finally, no matter what information group of interests; American, English was obtained as a result, nothing more German or even Australian, which sub- was done? sequently might become interested in the question of establishing a large scale iron Surely the Premier and the Minister and steel industry within our borders. will agree that the company when it com- pleted the investigations and inquiries On the other hand, let us say that the would Please itself entirely as to whether Government finalises, in the full legal it would do any more concerning the pos- sense, an agreement with the R.H.P. along sibility of Producing pig-iron in Western the lines stated by the Minister in "The Australia and of establishing a completely West Australian" on the 6th March. All integrated iron and steel industry in this right! The B.H.P. takes control of Koolan State. What a glorious position for the Island! That company establishes a steel company to be in! Talk about writing rolling mill in Western Australia. It car- one's own ticket! This suggested agree- ries out inquiries and investigations into ment gives the punter-if we can describe the possibility of producing pig-iron in the B.H.P. as the punter in this instance this State from our own iron-ore, and also -the unlimited opportunity of writing his into the possibility of establishing a large own ticket. All it has to do is to Put UP scale iron and steel industry which would a wager consisting of the steel rolling be fed by our own iron-ore. For good. mill. In return for that it is immediately bad, or indifferent reasons, following the (13 March, 1952.],99 1997 completion of its investigations, the com- nounced-to hand over the Koolan Island pany might say, "We are very sorry, but iron-ore deposits to B.lIP. The company we have found, as a result of our inquiries already controls 40,000,000 tons of our fnd investigations, that it would not be best iron-ore, which is a coastal deposit. economically practicable to produce pig- It is already taking that ore away from iron in your State and it would not be the Island to Newcastle and is processing economically practicable for us to estab- it into iron and steel products. It is not lish an iron and steel industry in your entitled to receive any more from us State." unless, as I said earlier, it is prepared to bind Where are we then, Mr. Speaker? We itself completely, in the legal sense, are left not only without an industry on to establish within a reasonable time an a large scale for the production of pig- industry for the production of pig-iron iron, not only without a fully Integrated and, within a reasonable time after tbat, iron and steel industry, but also we are a large-scale fully integrated iron and left without the possibility of getting those steel industry within our State. industries established by some other com- If the company is not prepared to face pany because the Government will have up to a reasonable proposition of that given away, supported by Parliament-if kind-and it would be most reasonable- Parliament were mad enough-the very then I think the company should be told thing that would place it, for all time, that until it is prepared to take a more in the position of being able to encourage reasonable view of the situation we in or persuade someone else to enter the Western Australia will hang on to Koolan State and establdsh the industries to Island, and if need be, do without the which I have referred. What chance steel rolling mill. We have been told that would we have of prevailing upon any the establishment of this steel rolling other company to come into Western Aus- mill within our State will most likely make tralia. to establish a large scale iron and available to our people more of the pro- steel industry if Koolan Island were lost ducts of that mill than we have received to us'? We would have no hope in the wide in the past. There is no guarantee of world! that. Pig-iron will still have to be pro- The optimists might say, "We still have duced and will still have to be processed Koolyanobbing." We would, or I should at Newcastle or Port Kemibla: it will hope we would, but what a prospect would still have to be transported to Fremiantle face any company that came into Western before it can get into the rolling mill. Australia to enter into competition with We know just how many things can B.H.P. on the Australian steel market or happen as those various processes are the export steel market If the B.H.F. were running their course. So the idea that 'we obtaining all its iron-ore from the coastal may get more of those products available deposits, and the other companies had to is not very solidly based. We might get pay the large and heavier cost of trans- them: on the other hand, we might not. porting iron-ore from Koolyanobbing to, As I said before, the steel rolling mill pro- say, Esperance, Fremantle or Bunbury. Of posed to be established in Western Aus- course, the suggested competing company tralia will be most uneconomical to the would not be in the race, and I should say company; I should think it would be los- we would not get any iron and steel com- ing money on it-1--a lot of money. Their pany in the world to face the risks and steel rolling capacity in the Eastern States dangers which would be inherent in a is already 30 per cent. below full output situation of that kind. for various reasons, which means they in my view, it would not be sufficient could produce 30 per cent. more of these for the Government to say, "Well, we will products in their steel rolling mill over grant these leases to B.H.P., but we will East than they are doing at present. insist that they take no iron-ore from Mr. Ackland: Do not you think they Koolan Island until such time as they -would, if they could Ret the coal? establish an industry in this State for Hon. A. R. G. HAWKE: That is the the production of pig-iron or until they answer. Most certainly they would, if they establish a fully integrated iron and steel could get the coal, and if there were no industry," because that would still tie the other difficulties to prevent them from leases up in the hands of the Broken Hill using their steel rolling mill to capacity. Pty, Coy. and they could continue to hold The point I make Is that when they estab- them. They would not be available as a lish a steel rolling mill in this State, they basis for negotiation by this Government are still up against the same difficulties in or some future Government with other the Eastern States in getting the iron- companies which might be interested in ore into steel billets so that these, when doing something in Western Australia of ready and available for shipment, could a practical nature to process within our then be transported to Fremantle. Stalte the iron-ore from Koolan Island. It is quite easy for people to say, "There From whichever angle one approaches is a great heap of iron-ore at Yanp! this matter, one can find no justification Sound, it is not doing anything; it whatever for the decision of the Govern- is not earning anything for the State, ment already made-already publicly an- and is certainly not costing us may. 1998 1998[ASSEMBLY.] thing. Here is a company prepared motion such as the one he has just dis- to expend £3,000,000 in Western Australia cussed, I suggest this is certainly not the for sure if we give it that heap of iron- time. I say that because any arrangement Ore, so we will let the company have it. that may be finalised with the Broken Hill and get it off our hands." Any person who Proprietary Coy. Ltd. cannot become takes that point of view is taking a point operative unless, and until, it is ratified eof view which is not in keeping with by both Houses of this Parliament in an Present-day requirements. The fact that Act of Parliament. I said so in the Press an oil refinery is to be established at statement to which he referred. I said Kwinana within a few years indicates the so in answer to questions he asked me extent to which this State will become in- without notice in this House, and in con- dustrialised in the future. It would indi- sequence I would suggest that the right Cate that we should be extremely jealous at time for this matter to be discussed is this time-at this Period of our develop- when all the surrounding circumstances ment-of the tremendous asset which we can be made known, when the whole of have at Koolan Island. the agreement can be placed before the House, when supposition will not play so So I appeal to the Premier and to the large a part in the matter as it has in Minister for industrial Development to the hon. member's speech this evening. think furiously about this matter before In other words, when a Bill comes be- they completely finalise any legal agree- fore Parliament in consequence of under- ment with B.H.P. I would like to know takings already given-the fact is that just how deeply the Government has al- the company itself desired that the matter ready committed itself, especially in re- should be brought before Parliament quite tard to handing Koolan Island over to the apart from the Government's undertak- company. If the Government has com- ings-that is the time to deal with this mitted itself up to the ears, as it might issue. I said in answer to questions appear in regard to that matter, then it directed to me a few days ago without had better Pray hard that something will notice, in effect, that the agreement was crop up between now and the time when in outline only, that it was subject to the negotiations are finalised to cause detailed consideration by the legal and those negotiations to collapse. If the Gov- technical officers of both sides and that erment does proceed along the lines it would be-as I repeat now-of no effect -which it has so far followed, and brings until ratified by Parliament and there- the agreement to Parliament in August or fore, if not ratified, of no effect at all. September this Year inaugurating the The Government was, and is, quite pre- broad principles set out in the Minister's pared. when the agreement can be in- statement which I read to the House cluded in a Bill and brought before Par- earlier, then I should say that members liament, to give all the information that of the House, with a full sense of their it will be possible to present. wesponsibility in this matter, would be jns- tified in pulling down the ceiling about This evening I am not in a position. the ears of the Government in order to with regard to some aspects, to deal with Prevent an agreement as suggested, com- statements, some of them supposititious, ing before this House, let alone permitting that have been made by the Leader of the in another place. Opposition, but I will say that for years it to be considered past successive Governments in this State I th ink members of this House have an have tried, without success, to obtain the opportunity to express themselves on this local establishment of some sort of steel matter and to direct the Government along industry. Records show that for some- the lines I have suggested In my motion. thing like 30 years, efforts have been made This motion can in no way be regarded by all sorts and shapes and sizes of people as party political. If we of the Opposi- to bring into Western Australia something, tion had wished to treat the matter on a big or small, that would produce here at Party basis, we would have attempted a least some of the steel required in this censure motion and not a motion express- State-so far completely without success. ing the opinion of the House on the mat- During the time that I have held my pre- ter. Therefore it should be clear to every sent portfolio of Industrial Development, member that he is absolutely free to vote at least four interests have been encour- as he thinks he should in this matter; that aged by the Government to submit prac- he is absolutely free to indicate to the tical proposals, but without any worth- Government just whether, in his opinion, while results at all. None of them have he thinks Koolan Island should be given been prepared to finance themselves. to Broken Hill Pty. Ltd. in return for All of them to a greater or lesser degree next to nothing at all. have asked for Government grants, Gov- ernment guarantees against risk of losses, THE MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL Government subscriptions of millions of DEVELOPMENT (Hon. A. F. Watts-Stir- capital or some such proposition. Some ling) [9.0]: There is a very old and wise would have involved the Government in saying to the effect that there is a time the expenditure of many millions and in and place for everything. While this is Processes which were purely in the re- undoubtedly the place in which the mem- search or laboratory stage and might, or ber for Northamp is entitled to submit a might not, have resulted In something of [13 March. 1952.J 199999

the type of £3,000,000 worth of progress of agreement with B.H.P. is finally com- a successful character that the Leader pleted and put before Parliament, I be- of the Opposition scorned a few minutes lieve members will feel that a tremendous ago. step has been made towards that end. I heard the member for Moore and Western Australia, in the opinion of others last evening express opinions re- the Government, if it wants to have a garding expenditure by the Government developed iron and steel industry in this in connection with certain developmental State, wants to do it on Collie coal if work that had to be undertaken to en- that be possible. The various laboratory courage the Anglo-Iranian Oil Coy. to es- and research propositions--the low shaft tablish its refinery in Western Australia. furnace and the Baum process-are all They pointed out that this would be likely directed to the use of Collie-type coal, to minimise the resources that might be but none of them has reached any fur- available-known to be always limited, at ther than the stage I mentioned a few least to some extent, to the Government- moments ago-a stage where it is claimed for other important developmental works that 60 tons a day might be dealt with. in the State. To handle the business on that basis Thus if the Government had plunged would, I repeat, be not only unwise, be- into anty of those propositions, as it might cause it would be substantially an un- have done, it might have been involved in proved proposition, but also uneconomic, the raising of millions-in one instance it because of the smallness of the capacity, would have meant raising £18,000,000 or supposing that capacity could be estab- £20,000,000-over a period of years for lished. something that our advisers told us was The creation of an industry based on unlikely, as presented, to offer satisfactory Collie coal, which I say is the desire of results. Had we done that, then I submit the Government and which would pro- we should have indeed placed the Govern- duce the development and expansion of ment in a position where it would have the Collie coalfield that I believe is jiustl- been most unlikely to have been able to fled, cannot be done yet. I am fully con- provide for many of those requirements vinced, and am firmly of opinion that for which those in this community are Parliament will be convinced when the *crying out for expenditure year by year, matter is placed before it, that It is the and which are essential, as several mem- Intention of B.H.P., after having com- bers mentioned last evening, for the de- pleted its research and found a satis- velopment and the continuance of indus- factory answer, as we all hope it will do, try in various parts of Western Australia. whereby our Collie-type coal can be used, As I stated previously, one proposal was to proceed to set up the other section based on the theory that the process would of an iron and steel industry in this State. use Collie coal for the smelting of iron- I am satisfied that it is the aim and ore which, as is well known, is still in objective of the company so to do. the laboratory or experimental stage and which would have absorbed very great I am also satisfied-as are also those expenditure. None of these methods, we better acquainted with and having a far are advised, has reached the stage where greater knowledge of this industry, men an economic commercial primary furnace in the Government service and outside proposition has been developed. Any prim- of it-that to undertake the attempted ary furnace melting less than 300 establishment of an Integrated iron and tons a steel industry based on Collie coal, with day has not the least chance of economic the known present possibility of using that success. The utmost, it is claimed, that type of coal successfully, could easily in- any of these research projects can develop volve any organisation or any Govern- with Collie-type coal is 60 tons a day, mnent in huge financial losses. In my own and that, of course, would be an expen- mind, I believe that the reason why other sive and uneconomic proposition. people who were interested in the use of I suggest, and am advised by persons these methods were so anxious that the such as the Director and Co-ordinator Government should subscribe and guaran- of Works, that no one would contemplate tee and so forth was because they held heavy governmental expenditure on what the same view as I do, namely, that the amounts to an unproved theory. Mr. Dumas risk was very great. has been in contact with experts from Ger- Dealing with the matter of co-opera- many and elsewhere in pursuing inquiries tion in research, it is well known that into this matter, and every member knows we have but few people in this State with that he is a man who does not reach such great experience of the steel industry, and conclusions without substantial grounds to add to that very small force those who for them. have had lengthy and vast experience The Government wishes to make some with B.HIP, must make some contribu- real progress that will put a period to tion towards ensuring the success of any the absence of local iron and steel sup- protect that may be put forward in future. plies in Western Australia. I feel that As I said In effect in my statement to the the best advice Izhave been able to obtain Press, the highlight of this proposition is has been along the same lines. In all for the closest co-operation of the Gov- the circumstances of the case, when the ernment with the aim and objective of 2000 2000ASSEMBLY. 1

constituting a fully integrated iron and Leader of the Opposition had really had steel industry in Western Australia, using an opportunity to judge the case upon the Collie coal if that be possible, whole of the facts, he should have taken If such research succeeds, as I am mare up the attitude he has. than hopeful it will, and permits Of Pro- There was little or nothing in the be- duction on an economic scale, which I haviour of past Governments which the am advised should be not less than 300 hon. member adorned to indicate that tons a day-at the present time the crea- there was the slightest objection to iron- tion of an industry of that capacity would ore being taken out of the Koolan Island run into at least £20,000,000-it would give deposits and sent to the rest of Australia, a tremendous fillip to a number of our some of it immediately being returned to industries, and a delay of a few more this State in the form of steel and some years will be well worth while. In the of it in the form of billets for processing meantime, however, we do get something into steel. It is not very long ago, and that we have never had before, we do within the memory of many members who get someone making some steel products are in this House today, when the strong- in the State that will be useful to us, and est possible exception was taken by the we do get the benefit of having consider- Government of which the hon. gentleman ably increased quantities of steel made was a member, to an embargo which was available to us. placed by the Commonwealth on the ex- port of iron-ore from Koolan Island to Mr. W. Hegney: There is the question Japan and other parts of the world. of the price of handing over the Icoolan Island iron-ore. It was only in 1937? and 1938 that this controversy took place, when the hon. The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL gentleman had been approximately two DEVELOPMENT: I do not think any years in the then Ministry of which the question of price has arisen. It is a ques- Premier was the Hon. J. C. Wilicock: and tion of an agreement made between two the Koolan Island leases which, prior to. parties who have been considering the that time, had been held by various people, very difficult problems associated with the were first of all surrendered or forfeited establishment of an integrated iron and by the then holders and revested by the steel industry in this State, if that is prac- Government in a concern known as Yampi ticable-an agreement that is not to have Sound Mining Co. Ltd. That company any force or effect until it has been fully proceeded to do some development up sxplained to and ratified by Parliament. there and to enter into an agreement As the Leader of the Opposition said in with Japanese interests for the sale of the course of his remarks, quoting, I think, 1,000,000 tons of ore to be shipped yearly my Press statement, as far as the export from Yampi Sound to Japan. It was of iron-ore Is concerned, the agreement stated in "The West Australian" of the If ratified will bind the company not to 7th February, 1938- Australia. export any iron-ore from It is anticipated that 1,000,000 tons This point is perhaps of more import- of iron-ore will be shipped yearly ance than has been indicated up to date. from Yampi Sound to Japan, accord- It is now many years since the Govern- ing to Mr. M. Omnori, an officer of the ment of Western Australia granted Cocka- Nippon mining Company, who reached too Island to a subsidiary of B.H.P. it Fremantle yesterday by the motor- certainly was not this Government. I ship "Charon." He is on a business think it was about 1926 when it happened. visit to this State where he expects If that is so, it 'was during the first Gov- to remain for several months. ernment of the late Hon. Philip Collier. Whoever it was, however, no provision The Nippon Mining Company has Was made for preventing the export of a buying contract with the Yampi iron-ore from Cockatoo Island to any part Sound Mining Company, which, it was of the world. Once taken out of the island recently announced, will commence by the B.H.P. or its subsidiary, it could production shortly, Mr. Omori said go to any part of the world, and that is his company was anxious for produc- the position today. But if this agree- tion to start as soon as possible. He ment becomes operative after ratification anticipated that possibly 20 or 30 ves- by Parliament. the iron-ore won from sels would be engaged in the carriage Cockatoo Island will be subject to the same of the ore and thought that Japanese, restriction as the iron-ore won from Koo- British and Australian ships would be ]an island-that it is not to be exported employed in the trade. from Australia. At Fremantle yesterday Mr. Omori As a matter of fact, I must confess to was met by the managing director having been somewhat surprised at the of the Yampi Sound Mining company attitude taken up in this matter so sud- who recently returned from Great denly by the Leader of the Opposition, be- Britain. fore all the facts could possibly be made Later on, the Commonwealth Government known, before all the information which apparently got wind of this, and not being I should like to place before Parliament satisfied, I suppose, with the position im- st the right time could possibly be placed posed an embargo on the export of iron- before it. I am surprised that before the ore outside Australia, but before it did so [13 March, 1952.1 202001 it apparently wrote to the Government of Unless there is reasonable evidence this State which, on the 31st August, 1937, that any development and trade con- replied in these terms, in a letter addressed sequent thereon is distinctly inimical by the Premier to the Prime Minister of to the interests of the Commonwealth. the Commonwealth- my Government is not prepared to co- I have to acknowledge your com- operate with Your Government in munication of the 11th August, the preventing our citizens participating contents of which come as a surprise in profitable trade with other coun- to this Government. tries of the world, and unless your communication means that pending In the first instance it is obvious the survey mentioned, all trade in from correspondence received from the export of iron-ore will be prohibited Queensland Government at the com- by your Government. my Government mencement of the present month, that intends to encourage the production a similar letter to that under acknow- and sale of iron-ore and its products ledgment had already then been re- in every possible way as it is felt that ceived by that Government. Your our resources have remained dormant communication to me thus appears too long already. It would be appre- rather belated. Apart from this, how- ciated, therefore, if you would kindly, ever, it is well known to your Govern- ment that there are leases in force advise us frankly of your views and In this State upon which actual intentions in this matter. operations are in progress for the pro- (Sgd.) J. W., Premier. duction of iron-ore, which is destined for export to a foreign country. That was I-on. J. C. Willeock, as I I refer to the leases situated at said a moment ago. Yampi Sound and held by Messrs. Hon. J. B. Sleeman: The Yamnpi file Brasserts Ltd. Both our respective is a most interesting one. Governments were advised of the Company's early negotiations with The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL Japanese interests and have been kept DEVELOPMENT: There are only two fully aware since of the agreement phrases in this letter to which I wish to arrived at and of the progress of acti- draw the attention of the House-and the vities and expenditure in connection first is-- therewith. This Government is very operations are in progress for the hopeful that, in conjunction with the production of iron ore which is des- sale of iron-ore to Japan, a cattle tined for export to a foreign country.. trade will also eventuate. The benefit which would result to the North-West- Later on, having said that, Mr. Wilicock ern portion of this -State from the stated- establishment of these industries can So far as this Government is con- be easily understood. cerned, it has a duty to do what it Recently, however, Paragraphs have can do to develop adequately all the appeared in our Press from Canberra natural resources of the State in to the effect that it is possible that order to increase production and thus Your Government may adopt export help in the progress and prosperity restrictions in regard to this iron-ore. of the people of Australia, and West- These Paragraphs have caused the ern Australia in particular, company concerned considerable per- turbation, and in the opinion of my So the development of the resources of Government the time has arrived the State and the helping to populate the when some authoritative statement North-West were, according to the hon. gentleman, assisted considerably by taking should be issued from Canberra in iron-are from IKoolan Island to send to order to clarify the position. foreign countries. Our proposition is to, As far as the granting of mining take iron-ore out of Koolan Island to send titles in regard to other iron deposits to the rest of Australia. Are we a nation, is concerned, I would point out that or are we a pack of children? That is several of our main deposits are at what I want to know. Is this country Aus- present held by various persons under tralia? Have we not taken advantage of the provisions of the State Mining the resources of the Eastern States and Act, and we are unaware whether any obtained them whenever we could for use of them contemplate disposing of the in this State; and are we not entitled ore to foreign powers. So far as this to give consideration, if a reasonable Government is concerned, it has a proposition is made, to doing that in re- duty to do what it can to develop verse? The question is for Parliament to adequately all the natural resources determine, as I have said, when the whole of the State in order to increase pro- of the facts are placed before it-which duction and thus help in the progress I am prepared to do at the right time, and prosperity of the people of Aus- and when they are all available. My point tralia and Western Australia in par- in saying as much as I have said this ticular. evening is to establish in the minds of 2002 2002ASSEMBLY.]

:members that the motion is Premature Japan, which might have been in the .and so should be defeated or washed off ultimate a most unpleasant matter, was the notice paper. not only not objected to, but fully en- Mr. Rodoreda: Do you know why the couraged by the Governmrent of the day. 1B.HP. cannot use the ore it already has The Minister for Lands: To fire back at Cockatoo Island? at us in the form of shells. The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL DlEVELOPMENT: I am not aware that DEVELOPMENT: So I think I am justi- it cannot. fled in feeling some surprise that at this time the Leader of the Opposition, what- Mr. Rodoreda: It has not used any for ever he might have wished to do later 12 months-not one shipment. when the whole of the facts were placed The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL before him, should see fit to act in the DEVELOPMENT: There may be some manner he has in moving his motion. reason, and I will undertake to ask what Mr. Johnson: When was the embargo it is when I get the opportunity. I shall on th export go a little further. Later, in 1938, the of iron-ore lifted? Commonwealth Government did impose The MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL an embargo, apparently after considerable DEVELOPMENT: That I could not say. inquiry, upon export. On the 19th May, In the ordinary way-as is well known- 1938, Mr. Willcock. as Premier. I think. a Minister dealing with a motion of this telegraphed to the Prime Minister, and kind should not only by way of benefit to this telegram, I submit, indicates that himself but also by way of courtesy to the the Government of the day had suffered mover of the motion-in order that the :no change of heart in regard to this mat- Minister might have a proper look at ter which applied, in different circum- everything that the mover has said-adi- stances, to Australia and not to other journ the debate for probably a week but, ,countries of the world, because the as everyone knows, the position here at telegram indicates, if members will listen present would not warrant that action attentively to it, that if the Premier ex- being taken. I was therefore obliged to pressed the views of the Government. as forecast, to the best of my ability, from one must assume he did, he was extremely the terms of the motion itself, what the annoyed a year, or nearly a year, after mover might be going to say, and I hope 'receiving the communication which I have I have said enough to indicate, at the very .just read. The telegram states- least, that there are distinctly two sides to this case and that now is not the time Announced here today that your to take concrete action in regard to it. Government is banning the export of iron-ore as from 1st July next Stop As I have said, I am prepared to produce This will be the means of ending the to members of the House a great deal of development of Yampi Sound deposits information at the time when a Bill is Stop My Government emphatically presented to Parliament for ratification of resents any such action this agreement and it is in its final opposes and form. I am prepared to give members being taken and considers that the every reasonable opportunity to study the enforcement of an embargo will only information thus Placed before them, and add to this State's many in- to allow them to form their opinions in the juries under Federation Stop Men- light of what has already taken place ~in tion has been made of compensation this regard in Western Australia, and with to the company affected but what a knowledge of the prospects for the fu- about the blow to the State in this ture if some such action as we contem- hostile attitude towards the develop- plate is not now taken, and the strangu- ment of an area depending almost lation of our future hopes of industry entirely upon its mineral resources, that will occur if we are just to wait until and for which the Government and someone is prepared to turn up with suf - the people of the North have made ficient finance and willing to take the many sacrifices Stop Is this territory risks involved in an unproved system of and its mineral resources to remain using Collie-type coals or, alternatively, undeveloped and to stagnate because the vast expense that might be involved in of your Government's precipitate some other method of which we at pre- action on mere superficial informa- sent may or may not have knowledge. tion Stop The Government of West- ern Australia strongly protest and When members are in a position to set urge that the project be allowed to both sides of this question on the scales proceed without further hindrance or and study with care the recommendations molestation thus ensuring develop- that have been made during the negotia- ment and activity in that portion of tions, and the reports that might be made Australia most needing it. afterwards by technical officers of the Government, they will be able to arrive at So it is quite clear that in 1938 the de- a considered opinion, but at this stage no- velopment of these leases by the exporting body could do so. I trust that members of iron-ore all over the world, including will arrive at the opinion-I believe they £13 March, 1952.) 200300

will-that this motion is premature and been brought about as a result of some ought not at this stage to receive the sup- direct attempt on the part of the Gov- port of the House. The Government has ernment to divide the two notices of mo- displayed great anxiety to establish a steel tion. industry in this State and it believes that It seemed to me, as I looked at the the House will recognise, when everything time, that notice paper earlier today, that the Gov- Is put before it at the right 2 the action taken will ultimately contri- emnent was anxious not to have No. bute substantially to that end. At that notice of motion debated at all. I moved. I leave the question, hoping that the mo- in an endeavour to have No. 2 notice of tion as at present moved will not be passed. motion discussed, to postpone considera- tion of the Order of the Day. The Premier Mr. BOVELL: I move- intervened and said that if I were prepared That the debate be adjourned, to withdraw my motion he would give Motion put and a division taken with the House an opportunity to debate No. 2 the following result:- notice of motion. On that assurance. which I accepted as being an assurance Ayes .. ... 21 for a full debate, I agreed to withdraw Noes ...... 13 the motion which I had moved and it was accordingly withdrawn. Majority for The Order of the Day in question was Ay then considered and finally decided in a Mr. Abbott Mr. Mctarty favourable way by the House. Notice of Mr, Acland Mr. Nalder motion-No. 2 then came forward for dis- Mr. Brand Mr, Binmo cussion. I made a speech in support of Mr. Butcher Mr. Oldfield flame?., Cardell-oli~er Mr. Owen it and the Minister for Industrial Develop- Mr. Doney Mr. Thorn ment, as was proper in the circumstances, Mr. Grayden Mr. Watts Mr. Griffith Mr. Wild followed me and immediately he sat down Mr. Hearinan Mr. Yates the Government Whip, the member for Air ll Mr. Baoe Vasse, stood up in his place and moved the Mr. Hutcbmanoh (Tei NOes. adjournment of the debate; in other Mr. Brady Mr. McCulloch words he moved that there be no further Mr. G-uthr'e Mr. Moir discussion on this notice of motion dur- Mr. Hawke Mr. Rodoreda Mr. W. Hegney Mr. Sleeman ing this sitting. We on this side took ex- Mr. Johnson Mr. Tonicin ception to that and forced it to a division. Mr. Lawrence Mr. Kelly Mr. May e The Government members supported Pal re. the motion for the adjournment and it Ayes. Noes. was subsequently carried. The effect of M r. Marn Mr. Nulsen Mr. Cornell Mr. Marshall the carrying of that motion will be that M r. Perkins Mr. Styants there will be no further discussion or de- Mr. Manning Mr. Roaer bate upon my no~tice of motion and no Mr Totterriell Mr. Needharn decision will be given by the House upon Motion thus passed; debate adjourned. it. There are other members in the House who wish to speak upon it and I ADJOURNMENT-SPECIAL. think most members desire that there THE PREMIER (Hon. D. R. MeLarty- should be a vote upon it. Murray) [0A48J: 1 move- One would think that members of the That the House at its rising adjourn Government would desire a direction from till 3.30 P.m. tomorrow. the House Upon such a vital point as the one covered in the motion I moved. The HON. A. R. G. IIAWKE (Northam) motion for the adjournment, as just £9.49]: I oppose the motion, as I do not carried by the House, means that there think there is any justification for the will be no further discussion and no fur- House adjourning at this stage, and ther debate upon my motion because it certainly no justification for its adjourn- is the clear intention of the Government ing until 3.30 p.m. tomorrow. The House to meet tomorrow only for the formal has uncompleted business before it-the purpose of receiving messages from business which was adjourned a few the Legislative Council in regard to the moments ago, and which is of the greatest oil refinery Bill and the Kwinana land importance to the State. We should there- Bill. Therefore, It is as certain as can fore certainly not adjourn at this stage be that there will be no further discussion until a late hour tomorrow. When the or debate, and certainly no vote upon my 'notice paper was produced to us toda,, motion. To that extent the assurance Mr. Speaker, I drew your attention,' at which the Premier gave me earlier thihi a certain stage of the proceedings, to the afternoon has been broken. fact that the two notices of motion had The Premier did not say when he gave been divided by the Order of the Day. the assurance, that only the Leader of the and asked you whether that was due to Opposition and the Minister for Indus- some printing error, or whether it had trial Development would be allowed to 2004 2004[ASSEMBLY.]

participate in the debate. Does the next hour, if the Government had not put Premier consider that a debate can be over the slick trick of breaking an assur- called a debate when action is taken to ance given openly by the Premier in the limit the number of speakers in it to two Chamber this afternoon. in a House of 50 members? That is not What does the Government think it a debate at all, as you would readily agree, gains by indulging in trickery of this kind? Mr. Speaker. That is an absolute and Is it afraid of the vote which members severe restriction of debate because it might have cast upon this motion if they means that the motion before the House had been allowed the right, which should is only partly debated and only two mem- be undoubtedly their right, to vote upon bers out of 50 have had the opportunity my motion? Is the Government afraid that to speak to it and put forward their the majority of this House would have views. voted in favour of the motion? Is the Government afraid that some of its own Therefore to the extent of nearly 90 supporters would have voted for it? I per cent. the Premier has broken the know, in fact, that some of them would sincere and earnest assurance which I have voted for it. Probably the Premier thought he gave me this afternoon. That knew the same thing and to avoid the is bad business and I resent it very much probability of the motion being carried indeed. If the Premier had allowed the he arranged with the Whip to have the motion to go to a vote, and had allowed debate adjourned-to kill it and prevent other members who desired to speak on any vote from being taken upon it tonight, it an opportunity to speak, and the tomorrow or any time before the agree- motion had been finally defeated I could ment between the Government and the have had no complaint, and would have company was finally signed, sealed and voiced none. But I resent very much delivered. the fact that the Premier should this The attitude of the Government in this afternoon trick me Into withdrawing a matter could not be worse, especially in motion which I had moved by giving me view of the assurance which the Premier an assurance that, if I did that, notice gave me across the floor of the Chamber of motion No. 2 on the notice paper would this afternoon. If the Premier wanted to be debated. avoid a vote being taken, why did he not try to do the same thing as he did last I have always endeavoured to be ex- week? Why did he not refuse to give us tremely reasonable with the Premier and an opportunity of discussing the motion helpful to him, but when trickery of this at all? That would have been more ac- kind is put over me my attitude forthwith ceptable to us: it would have been more will be reconsidered and the Premier will direct and more honest; it would not-~have probably have to look in vain for the same been as misleading as the assurance which sort of 100 per cent, co-operation, help the Premier gave me has proved to be. and consideration which he has received from me during the 12 months that I have The Deputy Premier, in his speech, did occupied the position as Leader of the Op- not deal with the motion; he did not try position. I am disgusted with the Pre- to justify the action of the Government mier and ashamed of the trickery in which in agreeing to hand over Koolan Island he has indulged. There was no justifica- to the B.H.P. He said that the statements tion whatever for what he did and there I had made upon the motion were based was no justification for the Government's upon supposition whereas, in fact, as you stifling a debate upon this matter, especi - know only too wvell, Mr. Speaker, the state- ally when the Premier gave an assurance ments I made were practically all based that the matter would be debated. There Upon those made by the Minister and is certainly no justification for preventing published in "The West Australian" news- the House from voting upon my motion. paper on the 6th or 7th March last. They were nearly all based upon the fact that The Deputy Premier told us that this the Minister had told the public through was not the time to debate my motion. Of "The West Australian" that the Govern- course there could be no more appropriate ment had agreed to band Koolan Island time, unless it had been earlier, if we had over to the Bli.P., and that is all that known about it earlier. Why should not is in the motion. It does not deal with a House of Parliament debate a vital mat- any supposition! It does not deal with ter of this kind and give an opinion to the the things which the Minister says he Government, if not an instruction, as to cannot tell us about at this stage! what it should do to safeguard the best interests of the State? Why should not The motion deals with something which the House, if it thinks it necessary, try the Minister told all the people in West- to save the Government from its own folly ern Australia about through an official In a tremendously important matter such Press statement a week or so ago. It deals as this? This is the vital time to discuss with an open statement by the Minister this important question and for the House on behalf of the Government, pointing out to give an opinion to the Government. that it already agreed to hand Koolan That opinion could have easily been ob- Island over to the B.H.P. So there is no tained this evening, Probably within the supposition about it! The motion is based [13 March, 1952.) 200500 upon solid fact and information given by Therefore, in view of the new industrial the Minister himself, and its purpose is to policy, in view of the appointment of ask this House to express an opinion so technical men to the staff of the depart- that it will be available for the Govern- ment, it was only natural that the out- ment's benefit. The Government would look of Governments and that of the not be legally bound to tare notice of the people generally on the future of the State opinion if it felt that circumstances were should alter drastically, as indeed it did; such as to justify it in acting against the so much so that today the State is ex- opinion of the House, but at least such tremely industrially minded. All the people expression of opinion by members would in Western Australia today think about have been some guidance. It would have industrial development and most of them indicated how seriously a majority of talk about it. I think it was the member members of the House regard the action for Nediands who, last night, said that of the Government in having agreed to our economic system on the production hand over these iron-ore deposits to the side is becoming more balanced and that B.H.P. company. such balancing of our productive system If the Government, on reconsideration was at good thing for Western Australia of the whole situation, following the as long as the balancing was properly carrying of the motion by the House, con- maintained as between primary industry, sidered that the agreement that it has secondary industry and the mining indus- made so far with that company on the try. point was not, in fact. justified, it xvould Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member is have been given the opportunity of trying really opposing the special adjournment, to prevail upon the representatives of the is he not? company to permit that part of the agree- ment reached so f ar being deleted from Hon. A. H. G. HAWKE: Yes, I am op- the final legal drafting, the details of posing a special adjournment. which, according to the Minister for In- Mr. SPEAKER: Opposing the special dustrial Development, are being worked adjournment! out at present between representatives of the Government and representatives of Hon. A. It. 0. HAWKE: I am opposing the company. Instead of the Minister the one moved by the Premier because I dealing with the motion as such, he went think the adjournment proposed is un- away into many sidetracks. I am not justified in the circumstances. It stems speaking now in an attempt to justify my from a trick which the Government put motion now before the House, but all the over the Opposition this evening on notice talk about embargo upon the export of of motion No. 2 on the notice paper. iron-ore from Koolan Island is beside the Therefore I am opposing the Premier's point. We are not concerned now about motion for adjournment until 3.30 p.m. what happened in 1937, 1928, 1932 or 1912. tomorrow. If the House passes this motion We are concerned as to what is likely to I will then oppose the next motion for the happen in 1952. adjournment of the House in order that I may express the protest which is over- Anybody who has followed the develop- whelmningly justified in the circumstances. ment of secondary industry policy in this The House should not adjourn with this State will know that Western Australia motion incomplete. There is an obliga- did not have an industrial development tion upon every member of this House to policy worth a snap of the lingers until complete the consideration of the motion about 1939. It was only about that year in question and to vote upon it. that the Industrial Development Depart- ment was put upon a solid, practical and The only reason why the Government technical basis. Prior to would net want a vote is the fear that the that time it had motion would be carried and the Govern- been a Government department of a kind ment would therefore be shown to be un- which appealed to people through the able to carry with it, in connection with Press to buy local products and that sort this matter, all of Its own supporters. We of thing. But when the new policy of know that no Government appreciates be- industrial development was fostered and Ing defeated in Parliament on any mat- established-I think it was early in 1939 ter. Obviously any Government would -that was the first time in the State's hate to be defeated upon a vital matter history it was put upon a practical and of the description covered in my motion. sound footing. From that time on con- The Government would probably feel very siderable progress was made; increasing humiliated indeed to be defeated on that progress was achieved and the whole out- motion, because it has already committed look of industrial development in Western itself to the Broken Hill Pty. Co. in con- Australia changed. nection with this matter. Prior to 1938-39 people in this State I am sure now that the Government has thought only about wheat, wool, gold. committed itself right up to the ears to meat and butter, except for, as I have B.H.P. to hand over Koolan Island to the said, these spasmodic appeals by the in- company. I was in some doubt about it dustrial Development Department to the until the Governiment adopted the atti- people to buy locally manufactured goods. tude it did in adjourning the debate, and 2006 2006[ASSEMBLY.] the attitude which it is now adopting on being handed out to us now? You have the motion at present before the House. been a keen student of democracy over I think the Government has committed the years, Mr. Speaker; you have read a itself so far to B.H.P. as not to be able great deal about the various systems that to retreat. We know that B.H.P. is a tre- operate in different countries of the world mendously powerful company. No-one for the purpose of governing people, or knows where its influence begins and for the alternative purpose of keeping where it ends; no-one knows who is as- them compulsorily under control. You sociated with it and who is not; no-one know what real, true democracy is as knows just what it controls and whom it against the spurious kind. controls. Yet here we have a Government sup- In an earlier speech I said that I had posed to be democratic, supposed to be- great admiration for its technical ability lieve in. democracy, supposed to trust Par- and for the great things it has done, in liament, and yet on this issue which is the production field, for Australia. I re- extremely controversial and vital the Pre- peat that. Yet I know from my own per- mier and his Ministers get into reverse sonal knowledge that it is ruthless; it is a gear in regard to democracy; they go back- company that can become ruthless when wards as fast as it is possible for them it considers it should be so, or when it to do. They grab hold of the Soviet and considers that its interests are better served Fascist technique and say, "There is to by its adopting ruthless methods and using be no further discussion upon this mat; them against weaker companies and in- ter; no vote upon it; no decision upon it;, dividuals. We know all about that. Parliament is not to be given an oppor- The Premier: It has been a God-send tunity to have a vote. The Government to Australia. Our industries would not will make its own decision; it won't give have been worth anything had it not been Parliament the opportunity of even ex- for that company. pressing an opinion." Hon. A. Rt. G. HAWKS: I have already This evening the Minister for Industrial said that. The fact that the company has Development gave us to understand that done great things for Australia in some there are lots of things he would like to respect or other does not entitle it to run tell us but which he is not able to tell us. the roller over and completely crush those That is all a certain kind of dust, and it other companies and those other indi- is not the kind of dust that would be in viduals which it did not want to continue the least bit likely to blind the judgment in existence. In view of the attitude of of anyone in this House. As I pointed the Government in connection with the out in a previous speech, the Minister for matter, I am sure that it is committed ab- Industrial Development spread himself at solutely, beyond any possibility of altera- tremendous length in "The West Aus- tion, to B.H.P, in connection with Koolan tralian" a week or so ago in connection Island. As far as the Government is con- with the matter. He could not say cerned, it has given Koolan Island away enough about it and probably gave "The to the company and it is not now in a West Australian" more than they could position to retreat. Naturally, therefore, find space for. He was probably anxious I suppose, from the point of view of the to build himself up after he had missed pride of the Ministers, they would not the bus in connection with the oil refinery want a motion such as the one upon the deal. He was probably just bursting to notice paper to be carried. They would throw himself into this negotiation with not want themselves to be humiliated in B.H.P, and to show that though he had the eyes of the representatives of this missed the bus in connection with the oil gigantic company. So it seems to me that refinery, he would now come good with the pride of individual Ministers is the Bli.P, only thing that is causing the Government I can understand the Minister wanting to refuse to members of this H-ouse who to boost himself; I can understand his would like to speak upon the motion, and being tremendously annoyed when be did who are anxious to speak upon it, the op- not think in the early stages that there portunity to do so. It is the only thing would be a chance of Western Australia that is causing the Ministers and the getting the oil refinery and consequently Government to refuse the House the op- leaving a junior Minister-one junior to portunity to vote upon the motion. himself, anyway-to tackle the job. How- What sort of Government is it? What ever, when he found the junior Minister sort of Ministers are they when they are had succeeded in achieving what he afraid to allow a motion of this kind to thought was the inpdssible, the Minister be given full debate and subsequently sub- for Industrial Development was desper- mitted to a vote of members? Same mem- ately and overwhelmingly anxious to boost ber on this side of the House-I think it himself up in some way and somehow. was the member for Melville-made refer- ence a few days ago -to the fact that the Mr. McCulloch; Give him the O.BE.! word "democratic" is often used by the Hon. A. Ri. G. HAWKE: The nego- Liberal Party, and that it is part of the tiations with B.H.P. were put through title of the Country and Democratic very quickly. I have no doubt the League. Well, what sort of democracy is Minister for Industrial Development said 113 March, 1952.1 202007

-Yes, Yes, yes" to everything the company I say to the Government that this is put up in order that the broad principles simply an attempt to gag Parliament of the agreement between the Government upon a vital matter, one that has already and the company could be finalised. As been partly debated and respecting which .soon as it was finalised on the broad prin- the Premier this evening gave me an ciples, the Minister spread himself in the absolute assurance that there would be columns of "The West Australian" to a a full debate. The statement he made remarkable extent. Yet in reply to a cannot possibly be interpreted in any statement I had in the newspapers a day other way. Yet under pressure from the or so afterwards, he said that it was not Deputy Premier, he allowed himself to possible to tell the people much about the be persuaded to put over the trick he agreement, and In the House tonight he d'd half an hour ago! I protest very repeated the same thing. strongly at the trickery indulged in by the Government. I protest very strongly What more is it necessary to tell the against the action of the Premier in public or Parliament in connection with breaking the assurance he gave me. I the matter than the Minister told Parlia- protest against the action of the Govern- ment or the people in his Press statement ment in refusing this House an oppor- a week or so ago? As if that is every- tunity fully to debate one of the most thing! There cannot be anything still to vital matters ever brought before it and be told to the public of one-tenth the im- also the opportunity to vote upon the portance in comparison with what the matter, so that the opinion of a majority Minister has already acquainted them in of members might be available for the his public statements. Yet the Premier guidance of the Government in connec- wants to rush Parliament into an ad- tion with the negotiations that still have journment now. He wants to close down to be flnalised as between the Govern- Parliament now because when we adjourn ment and B.H.P. tonight, we know that for all practical purposes it will be the end of the session MR. BUTCHER (G:ascoyne) (10.251: 1 and we will not meet again to discuss voted for the amendment, but that does any further business until- not mean that I do not support the Hon. J. T. Tonkin: August. motion. Hon. A. R. G. HAWKE: Or possibly Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: Which motion? September. We know what sort of a Mr. BUTCHER: Your motion. session will be held then. Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member re- The Attorney General: It will be very ferred to supporting the amendment, but much like this one. I take it he meant the adjournment of Hon. A. R. 0. HAWKE: The Govern- the debate. ment will make it as short as possible. Mr. BUTCHER: Yes, I supported the As a matter of fact, all members will want motion for the adjournment of the de- it to be reasonably short because next bate, but that is not to say that I do year is the black year for them. It is not support the motion presented by the the election Year. We know what will Leader of the Opposition. I acquainted happen and what sort of session is likely the Premier with my decision before the to be held. There will be rush and debate, so there is very little else for me bustle and so on. to say. Mr. W. Hegney: Window dressing will The Premier: You acquainted me! not be in it! When did you do that? Hon. A. R. G. HAWKE: There is no Mr. BUTCHER: Yes, I acquainted you excuse for Parliament to adjourn now. with the fact when you were sitting here. I know some members have outside work Hon. A. R. G. Hawke: Yes, we could to which they want to give their un- hear it over here. divided attention, They regard the busi- ness of Parliament as a side-line. That Mr. BUTCHER: When the Premier was is all right if they can get away with sitting over here was when I told him. it and their electors do not mind. I am Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: Surely the Pre- not complaining, but I think we are justi- mier is not going to deny it! fied in saying that the small volume of business remaining on the notice paper Mr. BUTCHER: That is the position. ought to be completed before we adjourn Though I supported the adjournment. it tonight. The only business on the notice said it was my intention to vote against paper requiring further debate and a vote the Bill when it was presented to the Is the motion dealing with the intention 'House. That is the explanation I wish of the Government to hand Koolan to make. Island over to B.H.P. What possible justi- fication can there be for Parliament ad- HON. S. T. TONKIN (Melville) [10.26]: journing now when by giving at the most This is the application of the gag in a. a further hour's attention to that par- new form. ticular question, all the business on the Hon. A. R. G. Hawke: In- a very dirty notice .paper could be completed? form. (ASSEMBLY.)

Hon. J. T. TONKIN: The Government as they consider are necessary in the is breaking new ground this session with interests of the country. But we have the application of the gag. We had an been told that the Government decided example of this previously when the Gov- that the only business to be discussed ernment deprived members of an oppor- would be the Government's business. The tunity to speak on the Address-in-reply. Government had no right to determine The complete debate in that respect was that. entirely eliminated, and now the Govern- ment has taken action, firstly, to refuse The Attorney General: Anyone knows leave to introduce Bills so that they could that the Government has not that right. not even be explained-and, finally, is now Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Then why did preventing the Leader of the opposition the Government make such a decision, from replying to the speech by the Minis- which is quite undemocratic? ter for Industrial Development, and also The Attorney General: I said the de- preventing any other member from hav- cision was ing an opportunity to speak if he desires in the hands of the House. to make his position plain with regard Hen. J. T. TONKIN: No, I said that, to the motion moved by the Leader of as the record will show. the Opposition. The member for Gas- The Attorney coyne has really let the cat out of the General: And I agreed bag. with you. Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: He certainly has. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: But that was not the statement made by the Attorney Gen- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: When the Premier eral in the first place. We would have had gave his assurance to the Leader of the ample time to discuss the motion fully Opposition that a debate on this motion and come to a decision. Parliament is would be Permitted, he was very obviously not here simply to talk about things. not then aware of the attitude to be Decisions on important motions are de- adopted by the member for Gascoyne. He sirable. We could have obtained a de- therefore felt quite safe in giving the cision and a direction on this question assurance that he did, Subsequently, had the Government taken the risk. Of upon being acquainted with the attitude course, when the member for the member for Gascoyne intended to Qascoyne adopt, the Premier became scared of the disclosed his intention, the Government result and decided that, although it meant would not take the risk of an adverse repudiation of an undertaking he had vote being recorded. given, it was far safer to follow the course A large number of matters ought to he has than risk an adverse vote in the be debated at this special session. For House. That is the reason for the course example, there is the increase in rents, the Government has decided to follow. completely unjustified under the powers, Although the Government has made no even having regard to the amendment pronouncement upon the point, it is well of the Commonwealth-State Rental Hous- known that when the current session has ing Agreement. From my study of the terminated, members will not again have replies given by the Minister, I say that an opportunity to deal with public busi- there were no grounds for the increases ness until August at the earliest, and that have been made. That matter ought probably not until very late in that to be discussed and put right, but we month. The excuse that will be put for- shall not have an opportunity to discuss it ward is that, as there has been a special tomorrow because, when we meet at 3.30 session, the opening of Parliament for the p.m., if the Legislative Council has not next session can be delayed later than then completed its consideration of the usual-we customarily meet for a new two Bills, the sitting of this House will session in the last week of July-but there be suspended until the ringing of the will be no justification for any such ex- bells. When the Legislative Council has cuse because during this part of the ses- completed its consideration of the Bills, sion the Government has done its best we shall be called together again to deal to restrict the activities of members and with the formalities. Thus, the motion to limit speeches to matters that the Gov- means the end of any further discussion ernment itself has brought forward. by this Parliament. We were told by the Attorney General I repeat that a number of important that the only matters to be discussed matters affecting our people ought to be during this Part of the session were those ventilated and decided. I emphasise the which the Government itself would intro- very important matter that affects al- duce. In other words, the Government most 5,000 people, namely, the tenants of decided that it would use Parliament for the Commonwealth-State rental homes. Its own Purposes only. Parliament does who have been subjected to largely in- not exist for the purposes of the Gov- creased rentals because, we are told, of ernment only: it exists to give members the increase in the cost of administra- representing different parties and vari- tion. This is supposed to have been done ous constituencies and points of view an under the housing agreement, but a peru- opportunity of dealing with the business sal of the Auditor General's report shows of the country and moving such motions that a large Proportion of the losses was [13 March, 1952.]

incurred on Army huts. Has the Govern- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Of course it has; ment any right to charge the tenants of that is what I am so annoyed about, It rental homes with the losses sustained would not have been adjourned had the on Army huts and the losses on the war Premier lived up to his undertaking and service homes agency? That is what given members a reasonable opportunity to appears to have been done, and It is a pronounce judgment on the proposals of point that needs examination and ex- the Government. I believe that, when the planation. Premier gave the undertaking, he was quite sincere and intended to afford mem- Now is the opportunity, during this bers an opportunity to debate the motion session of Parliament, to deal with the on its inerits, but his being informed by matter, but we shall be denied the oppor- the member for Gascoyne of his intention tunity, because the Government has de- to vote for the motion of the Leader of cided that the only business to be dis- the Opposition made all the difference, cussed is its two Bills--nothing else. It and so the Premier was prepared to sink matters not how urgent the question his principles and forget that he had might be or how important to the people given any assurance and, at the first op- it might be. This means nothing to the portunity, applied the gag. Government, because it has decided that The Minister for Lands: It ought to be the only matters to he discussed are those applied more. which it will permit to be discussed. * Hon. J. T. TONKIN: The Minister I say again, as I said the other evening, thinks it should be applied more? that this is the technique of the totali- tarian country and the dictator. It is the The Minister for Lands: Yes, I would end of free speech, and ultimately means do so, the end of democracy if we are allowed to Hion. J. T. TONKIN: That is proof of discuss only those things that suit the what I have been saying. This sort of party in power and are debarred from dis- thing grows by what it feeds on. Having cussing any other matters. It is the tech- started to apply the gag as it has done, nique that was adopted by Hitler and the Government wants to continue and Mussolini. carry it further. Mr. May: And led to their downfall. The Minister for Lands: The Leader of the opposition spoke for 2-4 hours tonight. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Yes, and the same policy will eventually cause the Hon. J. T. TONKIN : In other words, downfall of the present Government. to follow more and more the pattern of There is no justification for the action the totalitarian countries where you al- of the Government unless it be that it low such discussion as suits you and then is taken for the Government's preserva- apply the gag. That is something new tion. This might be advanced as a justi- on this side of the Commonwealth-this fication from the Government's point of prevention of the expression of ideas on view for curtailing the session and gag- motions brought before Parliament The ging members. From time to time, I have Government broke entirely new ground heard members on the Government side the other evening when it prevented the express their opposition to the use of the introduction of Bills or motions. This is gag, but the Government's action in this a further step in the same direction, and instance represents the application of the Minister for Lands wants to go further the gag in Its worst possible form. still. So it will be seen where we will finish up if he has his way. Had the speeches been long and tedious. The Minister for Lands: Before the the Government might have been excused House finished its sitting at Xmas, you for applying the gag on the ground that and the Leader of the Opposition cleared sufficient discussion had taken place, but out. You did not stop to see the finish, in this instance there have been only two and to state your case. speeches, one by the Leader of the Opposi- tion and one by the Minister for Indus- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: I am glad the trial Development. The Minister made a Minister for Lands has brought that up. number of statements that could not be The Minister for Lands: You cleared substantiated by facts, but members on out and left your boys to it. the Opposition side of the House have been denied an opportunity of pointing Hon. J. T. TONKIN: I am glad the out just where the Minister erred in his Minister has brought that up, because speech. He spoke about there being no that session will go down to the discredit grounds for the statements of the Leader of the Government. Having kept us here of the Opposition, and yet the very for 20 and 22 hours at a stretch, with -grounds were supplied by the Minister sittings like that for a full week, is it any himself in his statement to the Press, a wonder that the members on this side copy of which I have before me. were completely exhausted? It was all right for members on that side, for Min- Mr. SPEAKER: The debate on that isters who did their job and then got up motion has been adjourned, and went out. But the members of the [ASSEMBLY.]

Opposition had to stay here to keep an which are Completely at variance with eye on what the Government was up to. the truth. Those statements go out to The whole time Parliament met we were the general Public as factual statements in our seats. Hour upon hour, for up to and they believe them. 20 hours at a sitting! The minister for Lands: No, they do not. The Minister for Lands: It was not They go out as statements made. noticeable anyway. Hon. J. T, TONKIN: Yes, and they are Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Was it not? regarded as factual statements. Let me The Minister for Lands: No. give a case in point. A statement was made by the Minister for Housing that Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Because the Min- all evicted persons would be housed by the ister was not here to see it. Government. I stated to the newspaper, The Minister for Lands: Yes, I was. and I said in this House on more than Hon. J. T. TONKIN: The Minister was one occasion, that that statement was not outside. true. The Minister's statement has ap- peared in the Press; but although I told The Minister for Lands: Never In your the Press, and although I said here that life! the statement was not true, and although Mr. SPEAKER: The motion is for the the Premier knows the statement is not adjournment. true- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Neither the The Premier: I do not know it is not Leader of the Opposition nor I left this true. House while it was possible to do any business of the House. The actual work Hon. J. T, TONKIN: The Premier does of the House had been completed before not?. we left the precincts of the building, and The Premier: No. all that was left were the formalities. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Well, with your Hon A. H. Gi. Hawke: the Minister for permission, Mr. Speaker, I will put this Lands would not know that. to the Premier: Will he say that all evicted persons who became tenants prior Mr. SPEAKER: Let us leave that now to the 1st January, 1951, are being and come back to the motion. housed by the Housing Commission? Hon. J. T. TONKIN: I claim that I was Yes or no? entitled to reply to the Minister's inter- The Minister for Lands: You are under jection, seeing that it was allowed. other- cross -examination now! wise we would have a repetition of what Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Yes or no? Let I amn complaining about, and that is that the Premier prove his bona fides! Mem- the Government side of a matter is placed bers can see what the position is. The before the Assembly and receives full pub- Premier said that he does not know the licity and there is no reply to statements statement is not true. All he has to say made by the Government, That is yes or no. precisely what will happen with regard to my question is either to publicity on the motion moved by. the Mr. W, Hegney: He is not game. Leader of the Opposition. Full publicity Hon. J. T. TONKIN: Of course not, be- will be obtained by the Government's cause he would give the show away! I publicity officer for the case which the will tell the Premier the statement is not Minister for Industrial Development pre- true and I will resign my seat in Parlia- sented, and that will show that the ment. if he can prove it is. Minister has said there was no justifi- cation for the motion moved by the Leader The Minister for Lands: We will have to of the Opposition. try to prove that! Mr. McCulloch: Would they not be The Attorney General: You will admit happy? that the whole of it has to be debated The Minister for Lands: You sure know, later on. Mac!1 Hon. J. T. TONKIN: What is very nec- The Attorney General: That is a rash essary for us is that, with the limited statement. publicity which is given to what Is said on this side of the House, we should en- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: it is not rash at deavour to see that as far as possible a all, and I will not squib it either. We can fair presentation of our views is given to see where the Government stands on this the general public. matter when it comes to a showdown. I complain that untrue statements are made. The Premier: I do not think you They are published as if they are true should complain about lack of space in the statements, and when we attempt to show newspapers. what the true position is no publicity ise Hon. J, T. TONKIN: I am not com- given to our statements. plaining about lack of space. What I am The Premier: I1 think that is a reflec- complaining about is that from time to tion on our Government officers. Do you time statements are made in this House believe they would really set out to mis- [13 March1 1952.] 2011 lead you, that they would set out to tell being evicted but no, the Government lies? You should know, as an ex-Minis- did not want to come here; it hates the ter, that when questions are asked they place- are forwarded to the departments con- cerned and answers are sent to the re- The Premier: No wonder! sponsible Ministers. Hon. J. T. TONKIN:-because it has to stand up to criticism here. H-on. J. T. TONKIN: Do not bring the officers into this matter. The Attorney General: It is the time The Premier: Yes, I will! taken up that worries us. Hon. J. T. TONKIN: The Minister stated Hon. J. T. TONKIN: The Govern- ment's administrative acts can be probed in the Press-- here and some light can be thrown on The Premier: Did he compile the figures? what is happening, but that does not suit the Government. It wants to carry on Hon. J. T. TONKIN: These were not its administration figures. This was a statement. The Min- without criticism, and ister said that all evicted tenants who were it expects to be able to do so. Fortunately tenants prior to the 1st January, 1951- the Standing Orders and the Constitu- that is, who had not become tenants sub- tion provide for something different from sequent to that date and therefore were thac, and we are safeguarded to some ex- not without protection-had been housed tent. But then the Government uses its by the Housing Commission. I rang the majority to stifle discussion. If the mem- Minister up, as he knows, and I told him ber for Gascoyne was really in favour of that statement was not true. I quoted the motion he should have been suffic- from a letter of his which I had in my iently wide awake to see what the Gov- possession to prove that it was not true. erment was up to. He supported the Government In its action to prevent dis- So it is not a question of figures being cussion on the motion. compiled by the Minister's officers at all. It is a question of a statement by the The Attorney General: He made it Minister, and the fact remains that that quite clear just now that he did not like statement was not true. The Minister the agreement, and he will get an oppor- knows it was not true, but people out- tunity of voting on it. side believe it because nothing has ap- Hon. J. T. TONKIN: But he had to- peared anywhere to indicate that that do that on the motion for adjournment. statement was not true. When I rang the newspaper T said, "I have spoken to the If the Leader of the Opposition had not Minister. I have told him his statement opposed the motion for adjournment is not true and I ask you to say now that there would have been no indication from the statement is not true." I was told the member for Gascoyne as to where that it would have to be referred to the he stood on the motion. Minister. I said, "All right. That will The Attorney General: AtV th e not make any difference to me, because I moment. still say the statement is not true and the Minister knows it is not true." Ron. J. T. TONKIN: This is when we want to know, because the motion is here But my statement never appeared and, now. There would have been no indica- although I have said in this House a num- tion as to where the hon. member stood. ber of times since that the statement I will be charitable enough to say that was not true, no publicity of any kind I believe the member for Gascoyne was has been given to that. So my com- not fully appreciative of the action be- plaint comes back to this: That although ing taken by the Government when it we might have a lot of space given to moved the adjournment, and that he did us from time to time, when it comes to a not fully realise what was being done. matter of contradicting things which are vital we do not always get the oppor- Mr. Butcher: I am not asking for tunity to let the public know the other charitable treatment. I merely stated a side. That is why in this House we have fact. to endeavour to take the fullest advantage Hon. J. T. TONKIN: I do not say the of what the Standing Orders provide for, hon. member did ask for it. If I am namely that private members shall have wrong in believing that was the reason the opportunity of bringing forward mat- for his attitude, then I will not hesitate ters which they think ought to be to blame him for it, because if he Intended debated: and we should not be restricted to support the motion he should have to those matters wvhich the Government voted against the motion for adjourn- decides shall be debated. That is our ment so as to give expression to his point complaint about this session. I know it of view. We have to face up to the cer- is hard to drag the Government to Parlia- tainty that the Government will rush ment. I. tried it last year. I tried to away from here at the earliest opportunity get the Government to come to Parlia- and keep the place closed for as long as ment early enough to amend the rent it can. The Opposition complains about legislation so as to prevent people from that treatment and says it is a completely 2012 2012[ASSEMBLY.] new departure for Western Australia, and Hon. A. R. G. Hawke: The Minister for that it is unjust and against the best Industrial Development spilled the beans interests of the State. on the Government. The PREMIER: No member of the THE PREMIER (Hon. D. R. McLarty- House is being gagged on this particular Murray-in reply) [10.551: 1 did, of motion. The whole agreement has to course, tell the Leader of the Opposition come here to be ratified. that his motion would be debated. I might say that I had nothing to do with the Hon. J1. T. Tonkin: When will it come notice paper, and it took its usual course. here? I do not think the hon. gentleman has any The PREMIER: As soon as Parliament reason to complain. He 'was given the meets. Where the hon. member gets his fullest opportunity, in his own time, to information that Parliament will not meet ventilate his feelings on this matter and until September, I do not know. to let the House know exactly what he felt about it. Hon. J. T. Tonkin: I said, August. Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: What about the The PREMIER: That is news to me, other members? What about a vote? also. The PREMIER: Then he was given the Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: It may be courtesy of a reply by the Minister. I do October. not think, particularly because the whole The PREMIER: The member for Gas- matter has to come to Parliament, coyne and all other members who want that the Leader of the Opposition should to express themselves on this agreement complain of unjust treatment. will have the fullest opportunity to do so. Mr. May: You made a promise. Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke, That is choice. The PREMIER: I kept the promise. The PREMIER: It is factual. Ron. A. R. 0, Hawke: You did not. You Hon, A. R. 0. Hawke: I will tell you broke the promise. something about it in a minute. The PREMIER: Here we have a motion The PREMIER: I say again there is upon which members are asked to vote, no attempt being made to gag anyone. but, as explained by the Minister for In- 1 am not going to cover all the ground dustrial Development, they do not know that has been covered in speaking to my what the agreement contains. motion for the adjournment of the House Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: Not much! until 3.30 p.m. tomorrow, but I repeat that I do not consider the Leader of the Op- The PREMIER: Certainly they have position has been tricked. seen some Press statement. The Minister for industrial Development also said that Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: He certainly was the agreement was still subject to ex- tricked. amination by legal and technical officers The PREMIER: He has not been on both sides. tricked. Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: Do you deny that Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: He most cer- the Government- has agreed to hand over tainly was. Kocian Island to the B.H.P.? The PREMIER: This is not the end The PREMIER: At this stage I do not of the particular matter under discussion. think I am called upon to make any ad- mission In regard to this agreement. Hon. A. R, 0. Hawke: The Premier gave an unqualified assurance, which he Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: We know. has broken. The PREMIER: If members voted in The PREMIER: No, I did not. I gave ignorance on the motion and carried it, the Leader of the Opposition an assurance it might easily have the effect of killing that the matter would be debated. the whole agreement, and in our not hav- ing a steel industry established in the State Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: Without qualifi- for many years. cation. Mr. Kelly: Was there any truth in the The PREMIER: It has been debated Press statement of the Minister for In- and the hon. gentleman has taken the dustrial Development? fullest opportunity of expressing his views. What he has said tonight will receive The PREMIER: The Minister gave an consideration by the Government. but by ,outline of what is to happen, but the whole no manner of means am I going to give agreement is not there. him an assurance that any suggestions Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: The Minister for he has made will be embodied in any Industrial Development spilled the beans. future agreement. The PREMIER: I do not think so. The Hon. A. H. G. Hawke: I will take no Leader of the Opposition is on the wrong assurance from the Premier in future. track about wanting to rush in and get The PREMIER: Do not say hasty publicity. He Is off the target. things. [13 March, 1952.1

Hon A. Rt. G. Hawke: I am never hasty, but I never allow the same person to trick Ayes. Noes. me twice. Mr. Mann Mr. Nulsen Mr. Cornell Mr. Styants The PREMIER: The hon. member has Mr. Perkins Mr. Marshall Mr. Totterdell Mr. Neediham not been tricked. If it was the intention Mr. Manning Mr. Hoar of the Government to prevent the Leader of the Opposition speaking on the motion Question thus passed. we could have done It when he asked for The PREMIER: I move- leave to introduce it. That the House do now adjourn. Hon. A. R. 0. Hawke: I expected that. Hon. A. Rt. 0. HAWKE: Am I at liberty, The PREMIER: As proof of our bona Mr. Speaker, to move an amendment to fides, that was not done., the Motion? Hon. A. ft. 0. Hawke: The Premier gave Mr. SPEAKER: Standing Order No. 47 me an unqualified assurance and then states- broke it. A motion, "That the House do now The PREMIER: The hon. member says adjourn," shall always be in order, if I did, and I say I did not. It is a matter made without interrupting a, member of opinion. when speaking, and, if seconded, shall be forthwith put from the Chair. Hon. A. R. G.. Hawke: It is a matter But no such motion can be made or of fact and not of opinion. seconded during a debate by mem- The Attorney General: The Leader of bers who have spoken to the question. the Opposition should study English. Hon. A. R. 0. HAWKE: I wish to ascer- The PREMIER: The Deputy Leader of tain whether I would be in order in the Opposition said I was influenced in moving to delete the word "now", thus my action by the determination of the amending the motion before the Chair. member for Gascoyne to support the Mr. SPEAKER: We have a ruling in motion. The member for Gascoyne says our records that there can be no debate that he told me he was going to do that, on this motion. but frankly, I did not understand from him that that was his intimation to me. Hon. A. R. G. HAWKE: What was that I readily admit that he does not heat ruling? about the bush when he wants to let me Mr. SPEAKER: There was such a ruling know his attitude on certain matters and in 1938 when the late Mr. Johnson was he may, in conversation with me, have Speaker. given me an indication in that direction which I failed to appreciate. Whatever Question put and passed. he may have said, however, did not have House adiourned at .11.7 p.m. any effect on the action I took in this regard. I do not know that I need say anything further, except to repeat that members arc not gagged and will have every opportunity, when Parliament meets again, of seeing this agreement, of ex- pressing themselves and of taking what- ever action they think should be taken. Question put and a division taken with the following result:-

Noes ... I.. .. 13 Majority for ..

Ayes. Mr. Abbott Mr. McLarty Mr. Ackland Mr. Nalder Mr. Brand Mr. Nirnmo Mr. Butcher Mr. Oldfleld Dame F. Cardell-Olivet Mr. Owen Mr. Donev Mr. Thorn Mr. Grayden Mr. Watt@ Mr. Griffth Mr. Wild Mr. Hearman Mr. Yates Mr. Hill Mr. Bovell Mr. Hutchinson (Tretler.) Noes. Mr. Brady Mr. Mcoulloch Mr. Guthrie Mr. Moir Mr. Hawke Mr. Hodoreda. Mr. W. Hegney Mr. Slemran Mr. Johnson Mr. Tonkin Mr. Lawrence Mr. Kelly Mi. May (Teller.)