Thursday 13th May, 1954
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE
OFFICIAL JREPORT
VOLUME I91954 Sixth Session 1954 PARLIAMENT SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI :^ 9L8D CONTENTS Volume III—From 28 th April, 1954 to 21st May> 1954 Columns Wednesday, 28 th April, 1954— Oral Answers to Questions . Written Answers to Questions Thursday, 29 th April, 1954 — Oral Answers to Questions . 2389— 2416 Written Answers to Questions 2416— 20 Friday, 30th April, 1954 — Oral Answers to Questions . 2421— 56 Written Answers to Questions 2456— 60 Monday, 3rd May, I954— Oral Answers to Questions . . . . ^ 2461— 89 Re-admission of Questions . . . . 2489— 91 Written Answers to Questions . . , 2491— 94 Tuesday, 4th May^ 1954 — Oral Answers to Questions . 2495— 2533 Written Answers to Questions 2534— 40 Wednesday, 5th May, 1 9 5 4 - Oral Answers to Questions . 2541— 80 Written Answers to Questions 2580— 88 Thursday, 6th May, 1954 - Oral Answers to Questions . 2589— 2616 Written Answers to Questions 2617— 18 Friday, 7th May, 1 9 5 4 - Oral Answers to Questions . 2619— 53 Written Answers to Questions 2653— 62 Monday, icth May, 1954— • Oral Answers to Questions . 2663— 98 Written Answers to Questions 2698— 2712 Tuesday, n th May, 1954 Oral Answers to Questions . 2713— 51 Written Answers to Questions 2751— 60 Wednesday, 12th May, 1 9 5 4 - Oral Answers to Questions . 2761— 2800 Written Answers to Questions 2800— ^20 Thursday, 13th May, 1954 -^ Oral Answers to Questions . 2821— 59 Written Answers to Questions 2859— 78 Friday, 14th May, i 954 “* Member Sworn . . . 2879 Oral Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 2491 to 2495 , 2497 to 2508 , 2510 to 2511 and 2513 to 2 5 2 1 ...... 2879— 2916 Short Notice Question No. 1 3 ...... 2917— 20 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 2496 , 2512 and 2522 to 2526 . . 2920 — 24 Unstarred Questions Nos. 577 to 589 and 591 to 592 . . 2924— 32 Columns Wcdnciday, 19 th May, 1954— Members Sworn . . - ^933 Oral Answer to Question— Short Notice Question No. 14 2933— 36 Friday, 2ist May, 1954 — Oral Answers to Questions— Short Noticc Questions Nos. 15 to 17 . • 2937— 44 THE * PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES [(Part I— Questions and Answers) OFFICIAL REPORT 3821 2 822 HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE route in Pakistan and if we have got . Thursday, 13th May, 1954 the right of cabotage? Shri Raj Bahadur: On the route to Kabul, we touch Lahore which is in The House met at a Quarter Past Eight Pakistan. We do not exercise traffic of the Clock rights for this particular service. [M r . S p e a k e r in the Chair] I n c o m e d u r in g P u ja T r av e l ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ♦2458. Shri K. P. Sinha: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to A ir l in k s state: *^2457. Shri Radha Raman: Will the (a) the tottil income derived by the Minister of Communications be pleased Eastern Railway during the Puja of to slate: 1953; (b) the number of days taken into (a) the number of new airlinks account for the calculation of income established durinif the year 1953-54; from Puja travels; and and (c) how the Puja travel income of (b) the countries with which these 1953 compares with that of the pre links have been established? vious year? The Deputy Minister of Communica tions (Sliri Raj Bahadur): (a) and (b). The Deputy Minister of Railways and A direct airlink was established between Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) ^0 (c). Delhi and Kabul in place of the ser Information asked for is not available, vice on the circuitous route Bombay- as Railways do not compile separate Karachi-Zahidan-Kandahar. statistics of the income derived on particular occasions like the Durga Shri Radlha Raman: M ay I know Puja. if some more airlinks are going to be established during the current R A D io W i n d - f i n d i n o S t a t io n s financial year? *245^. /Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the Shii Raj Bahadur: It is proposed Minister of Communications be pleas that after the receipt of super-cons- ed to state: tel^ations by the Air-llndia Interna tional, we shall establish one service (a) how many radio wind-finding running between Bombay, Colombo stations have been established; and Singapore, and another between Bombay, Calcutta, Bangkok, Hong (b) the location of the stations; and Kong or Manila and Tokyo. (c) how many such stations are pro Shri Bansal: May I know if this line posed to be established In the near to Kabul touches any air port en future? 192 PSD 282 3 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers a S 2 4 The Deputy Minister of Communica * (b) if the answer to part (a) above tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) and (b). be in the affirmative, the direction Three tor regular observations at New issued regarding^ the wireless set-up; Delhi, Poona and Dum Dum and three (c) whether the same has been fol for occasional observations on an expe lowed uniformly by all the Railways; rimental basis at Bamrauli, Nagpur and and Madras. (d) if not, which are the Railways (c) 4 more stations are proposed to that have not carried out the direc be established during the next 3 years. tions? Shri S. C. Samaiita: M ay I know The Deputy Minister of Railways whether co-ordination with the Air and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) Force has been asked for and complied Yes, Sir. with? (b) A statement showing the Shri Raj Bahadur: The Air Force standard designations of wireless staff maintains its own observatories. There (both technical and traffic) employ is some difference in the system ol ment of which was suggested for the working. They make only one obser formation of Wireless Branch on Rail vation per day, we make two. Of ways is laid on the Table of the House. course, information when necessary [5ee Appendix X, annexure No. l.j may be exchanged. (c) and (d). Information is being Shri S. C. Samanta: M ay 1 know collected and will be laid on the Table whether high altitude weather condi of the House in due course. tions are observed? Shri Muniswamy: May I know what Shri Raj Bahadur: We got from the changes have been made in the wire disposals stock what is known as less circuits after the regrouping of 'Baby maggie’ type of radar, an the railways? equipment which could give us data about 25,000 to 30,000 feet above the Shri Alagesan: These directions ground. Now we are using radio theo were given much earlier. The sume dolites which give usi data about 50,000 holds good even after regrouping. to 60,000 feet above the ground. Shri Muniswamy: May I know in how many stations low-power wireless Shri S. C. Samanta: M ay I iniow, sets have been installed in the Southern when these stations will work in full Railway? capacity, whether storm detecting radar stations will not be necessary? Shri Alagesan: I think I should ask for notice. Shri Raj Bahadur: This is a matter which we shall decide on the basis of the technical advice which we get from the experts. t ft? ^ jp: » r r f ^ ^ W ir eless S e t - u p o n R a i l w a y s qr «rTT ^ # aft ^2460. Shri Muniswamy: Will the ^ t ^ ^ 3fl^ ? Minister of Railways be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that the N u t r i t i o n A d v is o r y C o m m it t e e R e p o r t Railway Board has issued direction re garding the formation of a wireless *2462. Th. Lakshman Singh Charak: branch (both technical and traffic) at Will the Minister of Health be pleased the time of the inception of wireless to state: communication branch on the Indian (a) whether the report of the Food Railways; Fortification Sub-conmiittee of the 2825 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2826 Nutrition Advisory Committee set up departmental candidates will show that in 1951 has been submitted to Govern their past experience will also count? ment: and Shri Raj Bahadur: The House might (b) if so. whether a copy thereof be aware that so far as postal services will be placed on the Table of the are concerned, apart from the clerical House to)?ether with the recommenda cadre and the Indian Postal Service tions accepted by Government? Class I, there is no direct recruitment for other cadres and the intervening The Deputy Minister of Health cadres like inspectors, superintendent (Shrimati Chandrasekhar): (a) Yes. post offices class II, etc. are filled by departmental promotions. As such, it (b) Copies of the report of the Sub is necessary to have more direct re committee hav« been placed in the cruitment from outside also. Library of the House. The recom mendations are under consideration. Mr. Speaker: Next question. A ssistant Inspectors S*hri Raghavaiah: One question, Sir. *2463. Shri Raffhavaiah: W ill the Mr. Speaker: I am going to the next Minister of Commimications be pleased question. It is no use interfering too to state: much in administrative details. (a) whether there is any proposal Sugar-C anb C ultivation in Bihar to recruit Assistant Inspectors in the Postal Department; and *2464. Shri Bibhutl Mishra: Will the Minister of Food and Agriculture be (b) if so, whether the recruitment pleased to state: will be made from among the depart (a) whether the Central Sugar-cane mental candidates or the posts will be thrown open to outsiders as well? Committee is aware that almost all the cane varieties so far introduced in The Deputy Minister of Communica North Bihar have become diseased; tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) Yes. (b) whether the Committee has sug (b) The matter is under considera gested any new variety suitable for tion. the soil of Nortti Bihar; and Sliri Raffhavaiah: May I know whe- ‘ (c) the name of the variety? • ther Government consider that in the interests of maintaining efficiency in The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. the administration, there should be P. S. Desbmukh): (a) It is not a fact recruitment from among the depart that all varieties of sugarcane have mental candidates and not from out become diseased. The varieties under siders? generaa cultivation in North Bihar during 195»-53 were Co. 313, Co. 513, Shri Raj Bahadur: It is exactly in B. O. 10. B. O. 11. Co. 453, B, O. 21, the interests of efficiency that we want B. O. 22 and B. O. 24. Out of these to introduce tliis cadre. The matter B. O. 11 and Co. 453 only have been whether it should be exclusively reserv affected in this area. ed for the departmental candidates or thrown open to outsiders also is under (b) and (c). Yes. Varieties B. O. consideration. As a matter of fact, 10, B. O. 3, B. O. 17 and B. O. 14 have the criterion for determining efficiency been distributed in this) area. Other is not whether they come from outside promising varieties are being tested or from the department, but the merit and will be released if found suitable, of the candidates themselves. : A' WPT^TT 'srrpr Shri Raghavaiah: May I know whe jr fifr ? o , a t ther the Government is aware of the fact that recruitment from among the 2827 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Antwers 2828 w i t' ^ «rnrre (c) whether Govermnent propose to conduct similar tests on the cattle in t ? India? IfTo q to T^o : IT? ^ The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. ^ q w I P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. An impor tant group * of new chemicals colled qro q*! | 1 nitrofurans has been developed in the United States of America. «ftfir^finflr : ir? ^nft #tt5- (b) The new drugs of this group M it ift ^ ^ ^ t n r - have given promising results in the ^ ^ ?rflf i w treatment of diseases of both man and animals. Some advantages mentioned ^ ^ ^ 'TR, WT in the use of these nitrofurans are t ? absence of untoward side effects, and no drug resistance is developed and : ^ T ? T H^TT^ that their action is more specific against the disease producing agents. ^ T t ? (c) Yes, as supplies of the drug «ft ftr^ftf fH«r : q*? ^ become available. t IT? ^ ^ T? ^RT^TT q o q?pro ^ q r w ^ JTifm ^ : 5«rr I irr ^ f^rsTR ^ iETI'T'fTT ^ ? % qw ^ ftf? ^ ^TT^TT ^cr^ *ro «fto ijHo rtX^ ^fT^T I I 1 inn: sR lfe"r Shri Ueda; In view of the fact that ^ 5T^ f»T5r Terr t I ^ ^ the yield in sugarcane is very low in these pasts, will the Government also consider the increase of yield when they are deciding upon different varie R e g io n a l C o - o p e ia t iv e T r a i n i n g ties ot seeds? C o l l e g e s •2468. Shri S. N. Das: W ill the Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: Yes, Sir. We are trying to take up, next to paddy Minister of Food and Agriculture be intensive and better cultivation ol pleased to state: sugarcane also. (a) what steps have been taken so far for the establishment of five N it r o f u r a n s regional colleges for the training of «2465. Sardar A. S. Sai^al: Will the intermediate grade personnel for co Minister of Food and Agriculture be operative institutions and co-operative pleased to state: department; (a) whether it is a fact that a new (b) where these colleges are going chemical known as nitrofurans has to be located; been discovered; (c) what will be the capacity of (b) whether it is a fact that tests each; and have proved it effective against such diseases at mwtiti* in the case of cattle (d) what will be the recurring and «tc.; and non-recurring expenditure thereon? 2829 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 282% The Minister ai Agriculture (Dr. Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I could not P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Arrangements for follow the question. The Poona the organisation of the Regional Train training college has been in existence ing Centre at Madras for the Southern for a long time. Zone and the expansion of existing Shri S. N. Das: May I know whe faciliti'es at Poona for the Western ther these colleges will be financed Zone are nearing completion. Proposals only by the Central Government or for the early organisation of training whether the Slates will also partici CoMtres for the other ref?ions aro being pate, and if so, to that extent? considered. Dr. P. S. Deshmuk£i: I think the (b) Two of the Colleges will be locat whole scheme is proposed to be and ed at Madras and Poona. The location will be financed by the Reserve Bank of the others has not yet been linally of India. decided. (c) Each regional college is expected to train about 40 to 45 candid.'ites per TW TRT : w r yenr. (d) The approximate expenditure on one regional Training Centre has been ( ^ ) *rr^, i i v y tentatively estimated at Rs. 10,000 annually non-recurring and about ^ HI % Rs. 83,000 recurring. Shri S'. N. Das: Arising out of the answer to part (b) of the question, ’ Tf ; w k may I know the proposals which are under consideration? ( ^ ) ^ ^ Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The places under consideration seem to be Burd- itiie Deputy Minister of Railways wan, Pusa, Meeniil, Hastinfipur and so and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) A on, but there is nothing definite. total of 14 special trains were run —^ Shri S. N. Das: May I know whether on the outward journey from New in these institutions trainees recom Delhi and 7 on the return Journey from mended by the State Governments Paridabad. On the outward journey, would only be admitted or private one of the special trains terminated at individuals will be entitled to get Tughlakabad and on the return jour admission there? ney, one special train terminated at Nizamuddin. Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I do not think (b) Rs. 20,157/2/-. these things have been decided yet. SiKl Ham Dass; May I know the Shri T. S. A. Chettiar: May I know total number of tickets issued and the whether these co-operative colleges accommodation provided? are going to be started as separate entities or as sections in existing Shri Aiacesao: The total number of colleges? In which place is it proposed passengers booked from New Delhi, to start this college in Madras? Delhi Main and Nizamuddin was 21,520. Sfcrl A. M. Thomas: May I know Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I would like to whether the report which appeared in have notice of the question. the papers that the Railway AdmlnJs- Shri L. N. Misra: From the Report tration never informed the Delhi Stale of the Progress of the Five Year Plan authorities with regard to their liittn- it appears that there is a College al tion to ri/n special trains Is cnrrecti ready going on in Poona. May I know and It so, what are the reasons for how co-ordination between the College the aamol' already in existence and the proposed fthrl Alttgesan: Am I to understand college is to be maintained? that the U*lh\ State authorities were 2831 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2832 kept in the dark as to the running of Shri Veeraswamy: May I know whe the special trains? No, Sir. ther the Railway Ministry has receiv ed any representation from the charge Shri Ram Dass: My question as to men who have not been so far up the acqommodation provided has not graded and if so, what action has been been answered. He only said that has taken on the representation? so many tickets were issued, but how many seats were provided? Shri Alagesan: I think the reply has already been given. Forty-five posts Shri Alagesan: There were, besides have been upgraded. The upgrading the special trains, several normal of eleven posts is under consideration. trains also, but as the House is aware, It will be finalised soon. owing to the large rush of people, it was true that all these trains were Shri Nambiar: M ay I know whether overcrowded. it is a fact that in several cases, wher ever upgrading was done, these posts Shri Nambiar rose— were not confirmed for several years? Mr. Speaker: A long statement was Shri Alagesan: That I cannot say made in this House on the subject. offhand. I do not think any further tiaestion is niecessary, Chittaranjan Locomotive Factory Charggmen in Goldfn Rock Workshop ♦2472. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to *2470. Shri Veeraswamy: Will the state: Minister of Railways be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that eight British technicians are joining the (a) whether it is a fact that a Com Chittaranjan Locomotive Factory un mittee was appointed by the Railway der the Technical Co-operation Scheme Board to go into the question of up of the Colombo Plan; grading chargemen in the Golden Rock Workshop; (b) if so, what are the terms of (b) if so, what are the recommenda their appointment; and tions of Hhat Committee; and (c) whether qualified Indian techni (c) whether the recommendations of cians were not available for the jobs the Committee have been implement in question? ed? The Deputy Minister of Railways The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) and Tramsport (Shri Alagesan): (a) Yes. 11 Technicians have joined the No. But a Deputy Chief Mechanical factory. Engineer of the cR-E. I. Railway was (b) Their appointment is for one deputied to examine the qdestion. year, but may be extended to two (b) The Deputy Chief Mechanical years. The Government of the United Engineer recommended upgrading from Kingdom bears the full cost of salaries 'D* to ‘C* grade of all Chargemen who and allowances and passages to India either supervised independently skill and back. The Government of India ed workmen and exercised technical provides them with free furnished ac and quality control over processes, or commodation and free travel facilities were in charge of a very large body in India. of unskilled workmen, or of highly (c) No. technical work, or were in practice in independent charge ot their work. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: May I know if (c) 45 posts have been upgraded in it is a fact that the terms of three accordance with this recommendation, British experts who came to Chittaran and the upgrading of 11 more posts jan some time ago have been recently is under con skier atlon. extended for two years? 2833 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2«34 S'hri Ala^esan: That is true. They Mr. Speaker: Let him not carry on were taken in the year 1952-53 and any talk with the Minister. they were willing to work the next year also, and therefore their term Shri Bansal: May I know if Gov has been extended. ernment is aware that the overheads in ,Chillaranjan are very high and Shri H. N. M ukerjee: May I know whether the help of these technicians the number of foreign technicians in is being sought in order to bring down the Plan and Progress Department of these overheads? Chittaranjan and their proportion to Ihe total number of technicians work Shri Alagesan: That is a larger ing there? question. The overheads at present are high. That is because we have Shri Alagesan: I may not be able not reached the full target of produc to give the proportion but these are tion. As far as employment of these experienced, practical foremen who technicians is concerned, they have have been drafted here to show to our been brought here, as I said, to g»t workmen how to get the most out of the most out of the plant. the various items of machinery that I n l a n d F is h e r ie s have been installed in the Chittaran jan Workshop. Their number is very *2473. Shri Sanganna: Will the small Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: Shri H. N. Mukerjee: Is Government aware of a feeling among Indian (a) whether any scheme for research technicians working in Chittaranjan on the bionomics and nutrition of that they are being discriminated fish “fry” has been taken up by Gov against in regard to such appointments ernment in collaboration with the Gov as are filled in by foreigners? ernment of Orissa, for the develop ment of inland fisheries; and The Minister of Railways and Trans port (Shri L. B. Shastri); I am afraid (b) if so, with what result? that is not correct. In fact, we re quire the services of a few demonstra The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. tors and rate-fixers for some tirpe more P. S. Deshmukh): (a) Scheme for re and we have, therefore, thought it fit search on bionomics and nutrition o| carp fry is being implemented by the to ask for their services. Altkoiii^ staff of the Central Inland Fisherio« their period has been fixed for two years, they will not stay on beyond Research Station with a certain one year unless it is found oxtremeJy amount of collaboration with the essential to continue their services Government of Orissa. The State for some time more. Government have provided laboratory accommodation and experimental nurseries and pond and have given Dr. Ram Subhag Singh; In reply to facilities for testing, on field scale, of part (c) of the question the hon. results achieved in the laboratory, Deput;;y Minister said “ND'^ Then, what was the necessity of inviting (b) As a result of research work those technicians? done under the scheme, it has been possible to bring about a very marked Shri Alagesan: Part (c) of the reduction in the rate of mortality of question was whether qualified Indian carp fry. technicians were not available for the jobs in question. The answer is “ No” . Shri Sanganna: May I know whe They are not available. ther any advantage has been taken of the TCA equipment and Canadian Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: But you assistance in the Implementation of said ‘‘No*\ this secheme? 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2835 Oral Answers 2836 Dr. P. S. Deshmukh; I would like pattern as had been planned earlier. to have notice of the question. The Corporation also decided to have a strong Central Organisation to Shri Sanganna: May I know the enable the headquarters to assume area of swampy land reclaimed and direct responsibility for initiating and converted into fishery farms, and the implementing proposals designed to quantity of fish produced, irom the secure uniformity in important mat date of implementation of this scheme? ters of policy, programme and proce dure. Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: As I slated, the results are encouraging. But I h&ve Shri Gidwani: May I know whether not the exact quantity of fish produc the question of the consecutive down ed. ward trend in passenger and freight earnings of the Corporation and the Shri Salnganna: May I know in what loss sustained thereby was considered, way the interests of traditional fisher and if so, the steps being taken by the men are safeguarded under this Board to check the same? scheme? Shri Raj Bahadur: The Corporation Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I could not at has constantly under review the trends the moment say. ^ of traffic, and takes such steps to .stop the downward trend as it possibly Shri Barman: What was the morta can. lity rate of carp fry in the beginning, and to what extent has it been brought Shri Gidwanl: Is it a fact that the down as a result of this scheme? Board also considered the question of purchasing new aircraft, and there Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: An exceedingily was a difference of opinion among the high rate of mortality was present, members regarding the type of aircraft and it was going up to ninety-seven that should be procured? per cent. Shri BaJ Bahadur: The choice o f . Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member wants to know also the extent to suitable aircraft for our purposes is which it has been brought down. not an. easy one, and if there has been a difference of opinion amongst Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I could not the experts and amongst knowledge say at the moment. able persons in the country, it is not surprising at all. I n d ian A irlines C orporation Shri Velayndhan: The hon. Minis *2474. Shri Gidwanl: W ill the Minis ter just now stated that a strong ter of Communications be pleased to Central Organisation to supervise the slate what decisions were arrived at decisions arrived at at this meeting in the meeting of the Board of the will be set up. Is it apart from the Indian Airlines Corporation held on organisaton now in existence? the 14th April, 1954 regarding the abolition of the line system and inte S-hri Raj Bahadur: No. The Corpo gration of Air services? ration has got a strong Central Orga nisation of its own. There is no The Deputy Minister of Communica question of setting up any other tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): The Corpo organisation parallel to it. ration had a meeting on the 14th April 1954 at which it decided to integrate Shri Gidwa(ni: M*»f 1 mio^ whether all the lines in a single step instead of the General Mana^w and other senior evolving a regional set up first to be staff have been apMOiuted, or the posts replaced later by a more integrated still remain vacalliCT 283 7 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Orel Answers 2838 Shri Raj Bahadur: In view of the Food Position in T ripura importance of the work in the forma •2476. Shri Dasaratha Deb: (a) Will tive stages, it has been considered the Minister of Food and Agriculture necessary that the chief executive head be pleased to state how is the general of the organisation should continue to food situation in Tripura this year? be the Chairman himself, and as such, the post of the General Manager has (b) Have Government built any not been filled, and the duties are be food-stocks in Tripura this year? ing carried on by the Chairman. (c) If so, what amount of paddy and rice has been stocked so far? T rainees of F lying C lubs The Deputy Minister of Food and Agriculture (Shri M. V. Krishnappa): “2474-A. Shri Shobha Kam: Will the (a) The general food situation in Minister of Communications be pleas Tripura this year is quite satisfactory. ed to state what steps Government are taking to absorb the trainees of the (b) Yes, Sir. flying clubs in India? (c) On 10th April. 1953, the Govern ment of Tripura had a stock of 5,400 The Deputy Minister of Communica tons of rice and 7,000 tons of paddy. tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): I lay on the Table of the House, a statement giving Shri Biren Dutt: Are Government the requisite information. [Sec aware that scarcity is prevailing there Appendix X, annexure No. 2.] - in some .areas like Kailashar and Dharmanagar? Shri Shobha Ram: May I know on Shri M. V. Krishnappa: The general what basis the candidates are selected food situation was asked, and we have for the Dakota training, and who the said that it is quite satisfactory. If selecting authority is? there are some scarcity pockets there they have got enough of stocks with Shri Raj Bahadur: They are select them to meet the requirements of ed by the Director-General, Civil those scarcity pockets. Aviation, and, of course, by the techni cal experts, on the basis of their A gricultural C oluboe in P unjab suitabilty for flying. *2477. Shri Hem R aj: W ill the Minis* ter of Food and Agriculture be pleas Shri Shobha Ram: What is the num ed to state: ber of such trainees, and In how many places is the training imparted? (a) whether the Punjab Government have approached the Central Govern- ;nent for any financial assistance for Sliri Raj Bahadur: As I said about the setting up of an agricultural col forty-^ve have already received the lege in that State; and Dakota endorsement training, out of whonn, fourteen have been absorbed (b) if so, with what result? and only thirty-one remain to be absorbed. As declared by the hon. The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. P. Minister of Communications on the S. Deshmukh): (a) Yes. floor of the House durin/? the course (b) The Punjab Government have of the debate on the Demands for been offered a loan to the extent Grants, they are to be absorbed by the required but their reaction in the Indian Airlines Corporation. There matter is still awaited. are a hundred ‘B’ pilots, who will be absorbed as and when vacancies arise, Shri Hem Raj: May I know whether subject! to the condition that they also a grant was requested, but cnly a loan^ obtain the Dakota endorsement has been given? 2839 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2840 Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: Yes, they had House. Government have to study the asked for a grant. But since we are implications of that report. not in a position to give any grant, we have offered a loan. Shri Raghui’amaiah: Since the report affects the States vitally both in the Shri Hem Raj: On what basis are matter of day to day management of grants made in such cases to the the Exchanges and the method of re State Governments? cruitment to the State services, may I Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: I think it was know whether the States would be only in the exceptional case of Orissa consulted before a decision is taken by that we gave a grant. Otherwise, we G overnm ent have not given any grant to any other State. Shri V. V. Giri: Certainly. Shri D. C. Shanna: May I know whe> Shri Bansal: May I know whether ther the Punjab Government have in it is proper for Government to issue dicated the place where the college the reoort in the Press just on the will be located? morning of flhe same day on which a question Has to be answered in the Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: Probably, my House? hon. friend knows better Shri V. V. Giri: They have done it Shri D. C. S>harma: Does not my hon. at the earliest possible moment. friend know this? ^ Dr. P. S. Detdimukh: A permanent Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I know building for a college at Ludhiana. whether Government propose to place the Employment Exchanges on a per Shiva Rao CoMMinEE manent footing? •2478. Shri Raghuramaiah: W ill the Minister of Labour be pleased to re- Shri V. V. Giri: That is one of their ier to the answer given to starred recommendations. question No. 1900 asked on the 19th April, 1954 and state: (a) whether the Committee set up to review the work on the future of ifto Rfjr; «WT Employment Exchanges in India has JT? sRTi# ?|5V ^ ^r^ir submitted its report; and ft? : (b) if so, whether a copy of the Re port would be laid on the Table of the (t ) WT I f«fr House? The Minister of Labour iShri V. V. Giri); (a) Yes. (b) A copy has since been laid on ^ n f ; 5T«rr the Table of the House. ( w ) irft ?T, 54^^TT % WT Shri Raghnramaiah: May I know whether Oovemment have taken any *PR»r ? decision on the various recommenda tions made in that report, and if not Tbe Deputy Minister of Bailways and when they are likely to take a deci Transport (Sbrl Alacesan): (a) At sion? about 7-10 hours on 22nd April, 1954, while No. 1 Up Sultanganj-Jamalpur Shri V. V. Girl: The report has just Workmen’s train was entering Jama^pur how been placed on the Table of the station, its engine and a water tank Oral Answers aS4i Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 2842 and 2 bogies next to it dashed headed by the Parliamentary Secre against the leaf of a gate. tary has submitted its report. (b) The accident was caused by the Shri L. B. Shastri: We have just gate leaf fouling the running line as received their report, I think a week a result of a bump previously received back, and it is difficult for me to say -by it from a shunting engine. anything on the recommendations of that Committee. : w r anro f n i j : g ^ W>J 5T5^ I ^ ^ I ? ^TROT ^ I - ? Mr. Speaker; He puts too general a mvA) : 5ft ^ »Tf ^ I question. It is also very wide. «ft Ho : IT? 3ft I ’I?’! ’ ft t ? ^ ^ t, «m5TRf ^^o siwwt : 3ft ^ f(€\ i I ^ >1^ I vft «fto ^ ^ W a ter S c a r c it y i n R a j a s t h a n *rmiT t Trft sfTR ^ *2480 Shri Bheekha Bhai: W ill the ^ vitwFJ #■ f f «ft wtT: ^ 5? tnp Minister of Food and Agriculture be »jc^ ^ «if «ft ? pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that there Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member has arisen a serious water scarcity in refers to another accident, I think. iJodhpur and other Divisions of Rajas «ft Ifto «fto ftnj : ^ SRTR Ir than: (b) if so, what steps have been 5rre ^ '3[^ t h # j f «ft, taken or are being taken by the Cen spTT y ^ v r r ^rnjTT % f r i«p tre to mitigate the horrors of water ^ ^ «ft ? scarcity; and (c) whether It is a fact that a Mr. Speaker; The hon. Member is bucket of water is bein^; gold at six referring to some other accident, annas? which is Tint the .subiect-matter of tliis quefition. The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. Shri L. N. Mtshra: May I know P. S. Deshmukh: (a) to (c). The infor whether the Railway Accidents Enquiry mation is being obtained from the State Committee headed by the Parliamen Government and will be laid on the tary Secretary to the Minister of Table of the House. Railways and Transport has submitted its report, and if so, its chief recom- Shri Bheekha Bhai: Is it a fact that mendations<7 a newspaper by name Jansatta report ed that due to scarcity of water, ladies Siirl L. B. Shastri: Some staff have have to wait for hours together in the been held responsible. city o f IJodhpur. Shri L. N. Misjira: No. I want to Dr P. S. Deshmukh: May I repeat know wliether the Enquiry Committee the answer given by my hon. colleague. 2843 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 3844 the Minister ol Railways, that very ^ ^ ^ 3TRft t often newspaper reports are exaggerat ed? ^ 5rf% ^ 5tI% ^ ^ 4HW ^ 'srrsft 'srr^ Shri Bheekha Bhai: May I know whether it is a fa ct ...... t I 3 fr^ ^rf?T 2TJT Mr. Speaker: Order order. Let in 3Tftr ^ w r I I w WTT ^ ^ ^ formation be given. The hon. Member f ^ ^ «r^ ^ I should not rely too murh on news paper reports'. B o a t B r id g e a t D h a r ig h a t *2482. Shri Sinhasan Singh: W ill H b l ic o p t e r s f o r M a i l S er v ic e s the Minister of Transport be pleased tg refer to the answer to Unstarred •2481. Shri Janardhan Reddy: W ill Question No. 425 on the 22nd April, the Minister of Commanieations be 1954 and state: pleased tb stater (a) whether any representation has- (a) whether it is a fact that Gov been received from the Government ernment are considering a scheme to of Uttar Pradesh that boat bridges be use helicopters for speeding up mail constructed on the River Ghagra at services to and from isolated areas Dharighat; and not served by surface communications; and (b) if so, what decision Govern ment have taken on this representa (b) if so, the present stage of the tion? proposal? The Deputy Minister of Railways The Deputy Minister of Cooimimica- and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a)' tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) and Yes. (b). The proposal is only in its pre liminary stage of enquiries. (b) This river crossing being on a National Highway it is the responsi bility of the Central Government to construct the bridge and though it has not been possible to include the con struction of a pucca bridge in the current Five Year Programme as ^ r m f i r m an interim arrangement it has been- decided to provide for a boat bridge ^ i w i d i I , ^ in this Programme. 5^ srwT4 ffnr t o Shri Sinhasan Singh: May I know whether in reply to a similar question whether it was on a national highway or not, the Government gave the reply that there was no national highway «ft ^ ^3TR there? If so, was that reply wrongly given? ^ ^ ? The Minister of Railways and Trans port (Shri L. B. Shastri): There was TT5f ^ R t some confusion, no doubt, as thl^i road did not come under the arterial % I j 3fr national highway. But I would like to q*^ I szrkr w t Pr inform the hon. Member that this road is on the national highway, and the responsibility for the construction ^ ^ I ?nfy ^ of bridges is ours. 2845 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2846 Shri Slnliaaaii Sin 8:h; May I know Member wants any particular informa when these road bridges will be put tion, I can give it. up? Shri Ramachandra Reddi: That in Shri Alagesan: We have asked for formation I have asked for, whether estimates and as soon as they are provision has been made lor construc received, we propose to include thp tion of overbridges and sub-ways. bridge for construction in the Plan Shri Alagesan: Going into the detail period. ed estimates? R e m o d e l l i n g o f G u d u r R a i l w a y Mr. Speaker: He wants to know S t a t i o n whether provision for sub-ways and ♦2483. Shri Ramachandra Reddi: overbridee.*: nart of tho e.stimates. Will the Minister of Railways be Shri Alagesan: Yes, Sir I can pleased to state: furnish that. (a) whether the remodelling of R ailway T ickets Gudur Railway Station in Southern Railway has been taken on hand for *2484. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the execution in 1954-55; and Minister of Railways be pleased to state* Cb) if so. when it is likely to be completed? (a) whether it is a fact that a huge quantity of railway tickets collected The Deputy Minister of Railways from passengers after the completion and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) of their journey are lying in heaps, and (b). Remodelling of Gudur for months together, in most of the Railway Station has been included in stations on the Eastern Railway; the scheme of converting the Reni- gunta-Gudur Metre Gauge line into (b) if so, how the final annual ac Broad Gauge, which is provided in counting will be done; the Works Program me 1954-55. (c) whether it is a fact that the col lected tickets should be sent in a bag Shri Ramachandra Reddi: May I to the Head Office every day; and know whether adequate provision has been made for the passage of heavy (d) if so, the difficulties of doing vehicular traffic at this part of the so, and how they can be removed? railway line by way of provision of overbridges and sub-ways? The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) Shri Alagesan: When the conversion No, Sir. is undertaken, all that has to be taken into consideration. (b) Does not arise. Mr. Speaker: He wants to know (c) At large stations, collected whether the estimates include adequate tickets are sent daily in bags to the provision for thto. Accounts Office direct; at small sta tions, collected tickets are tied to Shri Alagesan: I may not be able gether in separate .bundles for each to say that off-hand. But the object of station and sent daily to the Accounts converting it into broad gauge is to Office properly sealed through the afford that facility. District or Divisional bag. Shri Ramachandra Reddi: Will the (d) No difficulty is being experienc Minister make an enquiry into this ed in following the prescribed proce matter? dure. Shri Alagesan: It is not a question Shri 8. C. Samanta: May I know of making any enquiry. If the hon. whether (government enquired whether 3847 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2848 six months before heaps of tickets of efforts made by Railways in sup were lying in stations between Howrah plying wagons for carrying commodities and Kharagpur? for North Bihar, frequent booking res trictions for various reasons in move S b il Alailealaii: No such thing has ment of cement and coal etc., have in come to our notice. terrupted further progress? Shri 8. C. Samanta: As it is within my personal knowledge, may I expect The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): Movement that Government will enquire about it? of coal during March and April, 195^, Mr. Speaker: He gives the informa taken together, was slightly in excess tion from personal knowledge. of th e Q uota but in th e case of cement, stone-chips & pea-gravels, Road and Shri Alaffesan: Information perhaps coal tar and Bitumen, the movement was partly given •ven In the question. has been lesig than the quotas mainly But our enquiry goes to show that due to the river conditions having ad there has been no such thing. But if versely affected the ferry capacity. the hon. Member wants, I c«n make further enquiries. f t w ; WT W T T IT?- Mr. Speaker: When an hon. Member of this House says that he has personal knowledge of it he may be taken for his word that there is something to sraw O ? enquire. The Minister of Railways and Trans port (Shri L. B. Shastri): We will cer ifto : 3ft ^f, ^ t a inly enquire. ^ ^ f fr a ’ ^ Shri S. C. Samanta: I saw them with JT^, ^ ^ ft, my own eyes. ^ ^ Mr. Speaker He will make enquiries. . 5>T w >TT ^ I L iaison Officers 5ft ^ •2485. Shri Gidwani: Will the Minis ter of Communications be pleased to refer to starred question No, 404 re TT Tfflr ^ T R # ^ STRT garding Evacuee Savings Bank Ac counts answered on the 25th February, I I ^ ^ n 1954 and state: vfCTTf 1 1 I ‘Prr ’ft (a) whether the Liaison Officers ^ Tc ?• have commenced their work; and (b) if not, the reasons therefor? that I read while replying to a motion Shri Alagesan: I am afraid the calling attention to this matter. question should be directed to the Andhra Government. Pandit D. N. Tlwary: I wanted to know whether railway coal would be R ailway Bridobs b ook ed ----- '^2488. Shri Sinhasan Singh: Will the Mr. Speaker: Order, order. The hon. Minister of Railways be pleased to Member has made a suggestion. I state: am sure they will take that into con (a) whether Uttar Pradesh Govern sideration. ment have recommended that the Shrl L. B. Shastri: We are already Railway bridges on Rivers Rapti and working according to that, but still Rohin between Gorakhpur and Saha«> there are difficulties. janawa, be redecked and the by-pass, road maintained; and Irrigation Projects in Andhra (b) if so, whether Government have ♦2487. Shri Ragharamaiah: WiU the decided to redeck these bridges and‘ Minister of Transport be pleased to maintain the by-pass road? refer to the answer given by the Minis ter of Planning to a supplementary The Deputy Minister of Railways: question arising out of Starred Ques and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a> tion No. 1744 asked on the 21st April, No, Sir. 1954 regarding Irrigation Projects In (b) Does not a3se. Andhra and state: (a) whether the details referred to therein regarding the Regulator-cum- ^ ^ W r Op >3tTT Road Bridge across the River Krishna have since been ojbtained; (b) if so. what is the estimated cost ^ ^ fm vj \ A of this project and when it wiU be taken up; and % ^ fvJTT »nrr (c) when it is expected to be com ^ f w r 3TPT ? pleted? The Depaty Minister of Railways and Transport (Shril Alagesan): (a) to (c). The project is estimated to cost Rs. 271 lakhs and its execution has VRVT ^ I already been authorised by the Andhra Government. Information as to the expected date of completion is not yet available. t ftr i|5t ^ w % ^ Shri Raghuramaiah: May I know what proportion of that amount is to # ^ ftwT I; ifk cfr be borne by the Central Government and what proportion by the State Gov ernment? • ^ ifto ^TT Shri AJagesan: It has been calculat ed. and we have agreed to meet Rs. 40 lakhs out of the total expenditure. Shri Raghavaiah: May I know the ^ ^ ^ ^ ftfT approximate date by which this is likely to be completed? ifh h r r f % 3851 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1S54 Oral Answers 2852 render first-aid to cattle. The Madhya Bharat Veterinary School at Shivpuri ^ » T f *rtr ^ also imparts similar training. In ftrt^ ^ t tn: ^r tf%»r ^ fen Bhopal and Vindhya Pradesh suc^ workers are trained through Extension n^rr t ? w ^rror | ? Training Centres. Shri Alagesan: I can give one infor Sfari S. C. Samanta: M ay I know mation to the hon. Member. Even whether the output of the number of when these bridges were decked, they graduates from these colleges which were not generally open to public traffic. are working at present is sufficient for our needs? Mr. Speaker: They were not gene Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The graduates* rally open to public traffic even when they were working. are not sufficient for our needs. But so far as the number is concerned. I «ft fH? : Wr iTf 5TTf would like to have notice. The main question refers only to the expenditure 'rrfr i t s g-?r ^ 't t | 5ft incurred under the Five Year Plan. ^ i , w>T Shri S. C. Samanta: What steps have *f srrsT ^nf^rTT f w f Government taken for bringing uni f^JTT JTin5 * ? formity in the courses of studies in all the agricultural colleges in India? «ft tjfio ^ Dr. P. S'. Deshmukh: We are through ^ ^ 3 r r ?m d ?ft t the establishment of Agricultural Edu cation Council, trying to approach the ar^rr *rH5ftJT universities and secure uniformity in 5T> *f aPTTsr ^ syllabuses etc. ^W5TT f I Shri S. C. Samanta: As a large num ber of village-level workers is urgently V e t e r in a r y E d u c a t io n a n d T r a i n i n needed for the implementation of schemes under the Five Year Plan, ♦2489. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the may I know whether Government is Minister of Food and Agricalture be going to open more colleges for their pleased to state: training? (a) the amount spent so far, out of Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: We are aware Rs. 84.83 lakhs provided for veterinary of the need for these trained people education and training in the Five and we are doing our best. In so far Year Plan; as veterinary trained personnel is con (b) how many colleges and research cerned, We have asked some of the stations have been established; and existing colleges to have double shifts. (c) the number of colleges to trai>- Shri Muniswamy: M ay I know the village-level workers to give first aid factors that are taken into considera to cattle in India (Statewise)? tion before fixing the place where re The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. search stations are opened, and may I know why no research station has T. S. Deshmukh): (a) Rs. 58 93 lakhs. been opened in the south? (b) Three colleges (one each in y>r. P. S. Deshmukh: All the require U.P. and Madhya Bharat) have been ments of the place and the existence two rosearfh c;iation=; (one each in of any institution nearabout. are the U.P. and Madhyn Bharat, have been factors which are taken into consi established. deration. I am sure the same treat (c) Veterinary colleges in U.P. and ment would be accorded to the south PEPSU train village-1 evel-workers to ern portion of India also. 28 53 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2854 D fainage and Flood Works in 1 in ja d team of productivity experts should be invited under the technical assis «2489-A. Shri Hem Raj : wUl the tance programme and that it shoUid Minister of Food and Agriculture be be charged with the responsibility of pleased to state : training sufficient number of officers from Government, industry and trade (a) whether the Punjab Government unions in developing methods of pro have approached the Centre for sub ductivity. sidy for draina>?e and flood works; and Shri Radha Raman: May I know, in (b) if so, with what result? view of the answer given by the hon. The Minister of Agriculture (Dr. Minister that foreign experts will be P. S. Deshmukh); (a) Yes, Sir. invited, what will be their strength for the period for which they are invited? (b) A grant of Rs. 5 lakhs in 1953 64 and of Rs. 3*5 lakhs in 1954-55 Shri V. V. Giri : To start with, the have been sanctioned, proposed centre wiU have one Director, Shri Hem Raj : In view of the grow four senior and two junior experts, of ing menace of water-logging in canal whom two experts should be Indians irrigated areas and flood destruction and the rest foreign. by rivers, do the Central Government Shri Mohiuddin: Has the producti propose to adopt a liberal attitude in vity mission suggested that a small this regard? textile mill may be placed at its dis Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The Govern posal for experiment and, if so, what action has Government taken? ment has always adopted a very libe ral attitude towards Punjab and its Shri V, V. Giri: I would like to have water-logging notice of that question. N ational P roductiv n v C e Mr. Speaker: There should be no noise. I am unable to hear. I have *2489-B. Shri Radha Raman ; (a) asked hon. Members a number of time Will the Minister of Labour be pleased not to carry on talks. to state when the National Producti- T it y Centre at Bombay is expected to A ir c r a s h n s a r Dum Dum be opened and what is its estimated cost? *2490. Shri Raghoramalah: W ill tb« Minister of Communiciations be pleased (b) Are some experts from abroad to state: expected to work in this Centre? (a) whether it is a fact that a non^ The Minister of Labour (Shri V. V. scheduled cargo passenger plane crash Giri): (a) The Centre is expected to ed near Dum Dum Airport on the start functioning during the current 30th April, 1954; and year. It is estimated that it will involve a non-recurring expenditure of (b) the loss of life and property Rs. 16,000/- and a recurring expenditure involved? of Rs. 1,55,000/- per year. The Deputy Minister of Commnnlesi- (b) Yes. tiOBs (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) yet Sir. SCiri Radha Raman : May I know (b) 5 persons lost their lives n pj what is the nature of work that this the aircraft was destroyed by Are, centre is going to undertake and what will be its present strength of staff? Shri Raghummaiah: May I know whether it is not a fact that about two Shri V. V. Girl: ft was recommended years ago, within a mile of the same the first Five Year Plan in that the spot, a night plane crashed, and may I 192 PSD 2855 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2856 know whether similar instance^i or rea hill-men living in the plains area of sons, in regard to these two accidents Manipur was ever considered at the which have happened have been dis time of the formation of this Com covered? mittee, and if whether an affect has been given into it? Shri Raj Bahadur: It is very diffi Dr. P. S. Deshmukh; The hon. Mem cult to say that there is any simi ber is a member of this Committee, larity from the point of view of finding and I am sure he knows all the' the causes of these two accidents. details. I think when the Committee was constituted, the point raised by the A d v is o r y L a n d S e t t l e m e n t C o m m it t e e hon. Member must have been consider ed also. •2461. Shri Rishang Keishing: W ill the Minister of Food and Agriculture Shri Rishang Keishing: What I want be pleased to state: to know is whether the question of taking any hill-man living in the plain (a) whether it is a fact that an Ad area was ever considered? visory Land Settlement Committee has been set up in Manipur; Dr. P. S. Deshmukh: The hon. Mem (b) if so, what is the number of ber can suggest it to the Committee members on this committee, on what and if it is found necessary, we will basis have they been selected, and take steps. what are their functions; Shri Rishang Keishing: Do the Gov (c) how many times the Committee ernment of Manipur generally accept has met so far; and the recommendations of this Com mittee? (d) how far the work of theCom- mittee has progressed? Mr. Speaker: Order, order, that ruled out. Tbe Minister of Agriculture (Dr. F. S. Deahmukh): (a) Yes. A Com Shri Rishang Keishing: M ay I know mittee caUed the Land Settlement the acreage of waste^land reclaimed Advisory Committee has beeen consti according to the recommendations of tuted by the Government of Manipur the Land Settlement Committee? for the Manipur Valley. Dr. P. S. Deshiniikfa: As I have stot- tt)) The Committee consists of seven ed, we have allotted 200 acres of land members. The Committee advises to the co-operative societies on the ad the Deputy Commissioner in matters vice of the Committee. relating to the settlement of waste Mr. Speaker: That exhausts the lands. One Electoral College Member question list. from each of the four Tahsils of Mani pur Valley and the two members of the House of the People from the Mr. Speaker: The hon. Prime Minis State have been, selected as members ter will read the reply. of the Committee. The Deputy Com missioner of Manipur has been fip- Sitri Nambiar: In view of the im pointed as the ExOm cio Chairman, portance of the question, he may be asked to give the reply. (c) The Committee has so far met three times. Mr. Speaker: I have asked him to read the reply. Who will put the (d) About 200 acres o f land have question? It must be read. been allotted to Co-operative Societies on the advice of this Committee. Shri Damodara Menon: I will do so. Sir. Shri Rishang Keishing: May I know whether the question of taking some «57 Oral Answers 13 MAY 1954 Oral Answers 2858 Short Notice Question a)nd Answer the French India Police did in fact go F r e n c h P o ssessio n s i n I n d i a to Mahe. S.N.Q. No. Sliri Damodara Menoa: (e) The attention of the Member is (a) Will the Prime Minister be pleased invited to my statements made in the to state whether the entire Commune House on the 25th March and 6th April, of Naluthara of the French Indian 1954. Settlement of Mahe was liberated on the 8th May, 1954 and if so, who is The Government have sent their re now in charge of the administration presentatives to Paris, at the invitation there? of the French Govejnment, with a view to negotiating in regard to the (b) Do Government intend to take future nf ihp Frpnrh Establishments in over the administration of Naluthara India. and Cheru Kallai, the two enclaves of Shri Nambiar: May I know what is Mahe, reported to have been liberated the position of similar enclaves in the . Irom the Frehch rule? vicinity of Pondicherry? (c) Is it a fact that the French In Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: All these dian Policemen at Naluthara were enclaves are being put under the charge escorted to Mahe town, through Indian of local peoples or local committees. territory by the Indian Police sometime before the liberation forces occupied Shri Nambiar: What is the sort Naluthara? of administration going on there; what is the Government like? (d) Did the authorities in French Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I cannot Mahe request the Indian authorities for give an exact answer. As the hon. help for their successful evacuation of Member knows these are villages and Naluthara? small townships and I suppo.se the old (e) Will Government make a state municipalities are functioning. ment about the Freedom movement in Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy: May I the French possessions and their atti know whether the local leaders of tude towards the movement? these areas requested the Government The Prime Minister (Shri Jawaharhil of Inclia that these areas should be Nehru): (a) Yes. According to the taken over immediately by the Indian Government? Government's information the Munici pal Commissioners and the members of Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: They )iad the Legislative Assembly have formed not, of course, actually made that parti a Committee for the administration of cular request but that is their whole this enclave. objective, when they asked for the (b) The Government do not propose immediate merger with the Govern to take any unilateral action in the ment of India. matter. Shri Punnoose: As the Government (c) and (d). Yes. The Government of India was good enough to escort the of India were requested by the Govern French policemen and now that our or of Pondicherry to allow the transit representatives have gone to France, 0f 29 French tndia Policemen through may I know whether the Government Indian territory from Naluthara and have asked the Governor of Mahe not Mahe. The Governor was evidently to open Are on Indian citizens? anxious for the safety of this isolated Police Force. We saw no objection to Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: In regard to the withdrawal of the French Police the question of having escorted the from Naluthara and escort was provid departure of the French police from ed to prevent any untoward incident that area, it meant the exclusion of iht occurring during their passage through French authority fronPi that big area. Indioh territory, and to ensure that That is a big enclave near Mahe anii 2859 Written Answers 13 MAY 1954 Written Answers 2860 the policemen were there. In fact, T e l e p h o n e E x c h a n g e s i n B ih a r the departure meant that the French authority was giving up that big area *2446. Th. Jugal Kishore Sinha: Will to the local public. We allowed them the Minister of Communications be to do that and gave some protection to pleased to state: them to go across—it was Indian terri (a) the number of telephone ex tory involved—about three-fourths of a changes in Bihar for the opening of mile. We did not want any incident to which estimates were sanctioned in occur through ihat short distance. 1953; . Shri Raghuramaiah: Recently there (b) the names of exchanges that have been a number of cases where the have not been opened so far; and French police have pressed into Indian territory and committed a lot of (c) the causes of delay in opening them? arrests. May I take it that sufficient precautions are now being taken on our border for security arrangements? The Deputy Minister of Communica tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) 5. Shri Jawaharlal Nehm: I do not (b) Sitamarhi, Chakradarpur and know what the hon. Member means by Forbesganj. precaution as if there is some grave danger of something occurring to (c) Delay in getting rented accommn- dation at Sitamarhi and Forbesganj, India or to the Indian borders. There is no such danger. Naturally, precau and in acquisition of site for an Ex change building at Chakradarpur. tions are taken for a variety of reasons but, not from the point of view of the C o t t o n S a m p l e s hon. Member, that some aggression is going to take place on India. ♦2467. Shri Vallatharas: Will the Minister of Food and Agriculture be pleased to state: (a) the number of samples of Indian WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS cotton tested by the Cotton Technolo gical Laboratory, Matunga, in 1952 and 1953; C e n t r a l F o r e st D e p a r t m e n t *2456. Siiri JThulan Sinha: Will the (b) whether any investigations have Minister of Food and Agriculture be been made to study the mixing of pleased to state: Indian cotton with regard to their fibre properties: (a) whether the Central Government (c) if so, what are the results; exercise any sort of control or super vision on or give guidance to the State (d) how far research work and test Forest Departments; and ing have been carried on towards estab lishing a universal standard for staple (b) if so, the nature and extent length regarding short staple Indian thereof? cottons; and The Minister of Food and Agricul (e) what arrangements are being ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) and (b). Yea; made to clear the accumulation of the Central Board of Forestry, consti samples? tuted at Ministerial level, secures the necessary co-ordination between States The Minister of Food and Agriculture in matters relating to forest manage (Shri Kidwai): (a) The numJber of ment. The Inspector-General of samples of Indian Cotton tested by the Forciits, advises the State in profes Cotton Technological Laboratory are: — sional and technical matters whenever 1951-52 ... 1925 such advice is sought. 1952-53 . ... 1974 2861 Written Answers 13 MAY 1954 Written Answers 2862 (b) Yes. (b) and (c). The Token Instruments have not been put in yet. At 24 out (c) The results have been published o f tha 31 stations line clear is obtained in six technological bulletins issued through Telegraph instruments at pre by the Laboratory. These bulletins sent. The other 7 stations are flag will be placed in the Library of the stations where such instruments are ilouse. not provided. (d) Considerable amount of research work has been done and large numbers Ja n a t a E xpr ess of samples have been tested. The re *2475. Shri Damar: WiU the Minis sults of these have been published in ter of Railways be pleased to state: the form of a bulletin, Series B. No. 48 entitled ‘Staple Length of Cotton’. (a) the reasons for abolishing This information is, therefore, avail “Janata Express’' between Delhi and able for establishing staple length Bombay on the Western Zone: and standards for short staple Indian (b) whether Government propose to cottons. A copy of this bulletin will resume this service? also be placed in the Library of the House. The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) (e) To save time and to avoid ac Due to lack of sufficient traffic. cumulation of samples at the Labora (b) Yes, if and when there is suffl- tory, facilities have been provided by cient traffic justification. the Indian Central Cotton Committee for carrying out preliminary tests at the important breeding centres in the various cotton growing Stages. In 1952, as a temporary measure, a second shift was run to clear the large arrears ^ IJ’TT : that had accumulated at the Labora tory. Further, efforts are being made ( ^ ) KXH qtr fjr r w to expand and modernise the equip ment of the Laboratory in order to cope with the increasing number of samples sent by the Breeders. M isappropriation i n W e st e r n R a i l w a y (? t) •2471. Sfcri U. M. Trivedl: WiU the Minister of Railways be pleased to UKV jftaRT'p : ftwprr f*rT ? state: The Deputy Minister of Railways (a) whether it is a fact that cases and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) of misappropriation of Government A statement giving the required infor money have been recently brought to mation is attabhed. [See Appendix the notice of the Western Railway ad X, annexure No. 3.] ministration regarding the signal equip (b) Particulars of seven schemfes, ments on Kandla-Deesa Section; estimated to cost in all Rs. 293,430/-, one-third of which is to be met from . Y r m i f t *r*rt : ^ f i r o ; The Minister of Labour (Shri V. V. G irl): (a) 609. The figure relates to work stoppages resulting from indus f Tr *F ^ fir n?r ^ ^ trial disputes and, therefore, covers both strikes and lock-outs. «|f»T I AT I ? (b ) 3,83,701. The Minister of Food and Airicttltore (c) 233 days— maximum. (Sliri Kidwai): The production of sugar 10 minutes—minimum. during 1953-54 season upto 30th April, (d) 2,790,704 man-days were lost. 1954, was 9 98 lakh tons as compared Information relating to man-hours is to 12-58 lakhs tons during the corres not available. ponding period of the previous year. H o u se s f o r A gricultural L a b o u r er s R a i l w a y O v er-B r id g e a t A m r a o t i 549. Shri K. G. Deshmukfa: Will the 551. Shri Bibhuti Mishra: W ill the Minister of Railways be pleased to Minister of Fooa Agriculture b e state: * pleased to state: (a) when Government propose to (a) whether any amount has been undertake the construction work of allotted in the Five Y6ar Plan for con over-bridge on railway lines near the structing houses for agricultural lal^ Railway Station at Amraoti ®n the ourers; and ‘ Central Railway; and (b) if not, whether Government (b) whether the final survey of this have any scheme for the purpose? bridge has been made? The Deputy Minister of Railways The Minister of Food and Agricul* Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) and (b). No. The work is proposed to be undertaken during the year 1954-55. H o m e o p a t h ic I nstitutions (b) Not yet. Two alternative pro 552. Shri S. C. SamaHta: (a) W ill posals are under scrutiny of the the Minister of Heillth be pleased to- Madhya Pradesh Government. state how many Homeopathic Colleges are going to be up-graded according to* ^ 5 f the recommendations of the Central* Council of Health at Rajkot? ijwo r^ o tfm : ^ ^PT ^ fTTT (b) Have the Government of Weii Bengal been requested fortnally to ei- ( V ) VTW^TT ^rftrf^TxpRT % tablish a model Homeopathic Iiistltit- tion in Calcutta? tn# vrryrHf ^r«rr ^ (c) Who is ^oing to select the Insti tution in Calcutta? ( f*F5T^ The Minister ot Health (Rajknmarl Amrit Kaur): (a) Two. ( ^ ) ^ ^ J [ (b) No. But the West Bengal Gov^ ernment have been asked to recom ^ ^ pKd^t * mend one from among the existing: Colleges for purposes of up-grading. 2865 Written Answers 13 MAY 1954 Written Answers 2866 (c) The Government of India will G a n g e s B r id g e a t K a c h l a .select the institution on the recom 555. Shri Raghiibir SaCiai: Will the mendation of the West Bengal Govern Minister of Railways be pleased to ment. state: Japamgs'j C\blu Invkstigatiom Committee (a) when the decking of the Ganges 553. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the Bridge at Kachla on the N,E Rail Minister of Communicatioiui be pleas way was sanctioned; and ed to state which of the recommenda*' (b) what progress has been made so tions of l^he Japanese Cable Investiga far? tion Committee have been adopted V>y Government? The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan); (a^ The Deputy Minister of Communicst- The estimate was sanctioned on 16th tions (Shri Raj Bahadur): All the February, 1954. jecommendations of the committee (b) Material is being collected at have been accepted by Government site. and are being given effect to. R e c r u it m e n t o f S c h e d u l e d C a st e s CoMMiTTfifi FOR L a n d R e f o r m s AND T r ib e s 554. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the 556. Shri Dhusiya: Will the Minister Minister of Food and Apiculture be of Labour be pleased to state; pleased to state: (a) the number of Scheduled Castes (a) which States have sent their and Scheduled Tribes candidates to proposals to the Central Committee for whom appointments have been given Lai>d Reforms since September, 1953; in 1952-58 and 1953-54 through tho Employment Exchanges in different (b) whether these proposals have States in Government offices and r^n- been considered by the Committee; Governmental institutions and organi sations; and Tke Deputy Minister of Railwayii ^«rr and Transport (Shri Alagesan) (a) and (b). The figures of earnings and f>T^ ^ ^ t | f ; working expenses are not recorded separately for the different Sections ( ^ ) ^f, ^ % referred to by the Member. The finan* ^ % ?fnrr ^r cial results of working of the Scindia State Railway as a whole for the three 3R W PfTcT^ I^TT I ; « f k years 1950-51 to 1952«53 are given (^) ^TST ^ % wr t ? below :— Year Gross Earnings Working Expenses Net Eamiugs 1950-51 30,21,780 35»i 8,214 (— ) 4>96,434 Loss I95i‘ 52 34»i i *004 26,501777 7 ,60,227 Gain (—)io.44»625 Loss 1952-53 12,62,372 2^,06,997 (c) The losses ii^re mainly due to C h a n g e s i n M il e a g e motor competition. 559. Shri Rishasg Keiflhing; W ill th r Minister of Railways be pleased to C o a l W a g o n s state: 558. Shri K. C. Jena: W ill the Minis (a) whether mileage between seve ter of Railways be pleased to state: ral Railway stations on the Northera Railway has been changed; (a) whether it is a fact that due to (b) if so, the names of such sta deterioration in the movement ol tions and the old and new mileage wagons, heavy stocks of coal are ly pertaining to them; ing unexported at the Raniganj Colli (c) the reasons for ery; and and (b) whether as a consequence, the (d) whether printed Railway tickets colliery authorities propose to with old mileage and fares have been retrench their labrour staff? withdrawn or corrections have been made on them? The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) The Deputy Minister of Railways^ The over-all loading of coal in the and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) West Bengal and Bihar coal-fields Yes, Sir, in a few cases. during the months of Decem ber 1953 to February 1954 suffered unavoidably (b) and (c). A statement giving the information is attached. [See Appen a setback owing to the necessity of providing for additional passenger dix X, annexure No. 6.11 traffic in connection with the Kumbh (d) Tickets with old mileages have Mela. It is probable that this decrease not been withdrawn. They are issued has been partly responsible for tiie after fares have been corrected hy comparative rise in coal stock in the the booking ftaS^ West Bengal and Bihar coal-fields, including the Raniganj colliery. T h e f t o f L u g g a g e (b) The Government are not aware 560. Shri K. P. Sinha: Will the Min of any plans for making large scale ister of Railways be pleased to state: retrenchment in the labour staff any- (a) the number of cases of thefts iprhere. • •f passengers' luggage in trains, oa ^ 6 9 Written Answers 13 MAY 1954 Written Answers 2870 platforms and in waiting rooms in T u b e - w e l l s On P l a t e f o r m s 1952-53; 563. Shri S. N. Das: Will the Minis (b) how the figures compare with ter of Railways be pleased to state: those of the previous two years; and (a) the total number of tube-wells (c) the number of such cases result sunk on the station platforms in each ing from defect in or want of safety line from Samastipur to Darbhanga, devices in passenger trains during from Darbhanga to Jainagar, from 1952-53? Sakri to Nirmali, and from Darbhanga The Deputy Minister of Railways to Jogiara; and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) (b) how many of these tube-wells to (c). A statement showing the re are totally out of order; quired information is attached, [Sec (c) how many of them were up Appendix X, annexure No. 7.) rooted and resunk when they were out of order; and L a b o u r D is p u t e s (d) what was the maximum and 561. Shri K. P. Sinha: WiU the Minis minimum depths to which these tub&- ter of Labour be pleased to state: wells were originally sunk? (a) the number of Labour disputes in the year 1953 (month-wise) as far The Deputy Minister of Railways as the Central Government is concern and Transport (Shri Alagesan); (a) Twenty-four; 5 on Samastipur-Dar- ed ; bhapga Section. 9 on Darbhanga- (b) the number of cases settled by Jainagar Section, 7 on Sakri-Nirmali the Conciliation Boards; and Section^ and 3 on Darbhanga-Jogiara (c) the number referred to the Section, Tribunals? (b) Only two; one at Kishanpur and The Minister of Labour (Shri V. V. the other at Rajnagar. Giri): (a) 2609 during 1953. Month- (c) Only four tube wells had to be wise figures are not readily available. up-rooted and resunk at Kishanpur, (b) None during 1953. Haiya Ghat, Rajnagar and Nirmali. Kailways this traffic is accepted ireely (ii) Precautionary measures for without any quota limitation. prevention of fires due to various (b) and (c). Two statements contain causes, on the electric trains. ing the required information are heie- (iii) Improvement in the design with attached. [See Appendix X, of roof construction of electric annexure No. 8 .] coaches to prevent its being affect ed by fire from’ electrical short cir Q u a r a n t in e R estrictions cuits etc. 565. Siiri N. Sreekantan .Nair: (a) (iv) Education of staff through Will the Minister of Health be pleased Refresher Courses, Railway to state which South East Asian coun Gazettes in accident prevention tries enforce a oeriod of quarantine measures, to mr ke t hem more for Indian Third Class passengers? safety minded am' to keep up their (b) Do these countries also enforce knowledge of rules and regulations quarantine for any other Asian na designed for safe working of trains tionals? etc. The Minister of Health (Rajkumari G r a i n -S h o p s Amrit Kaur); (a) Singapore and 567. Shri K. C. Sodhia: (a) Will thc> Malaya. Minister of Railways be pleased to- state the total number of grain shops. (b) Yes, for all deck passenger^. Zone-wise, on the Indian Railways during 1953-54? A c c id e n t s t o E l e c t r ic T r a i n s 566. Shrl N. Sreekantan Nalr: W ill (b) What was the total number of' the Minister of Railways be pleased staff attached to them under (i> to state: Officers and (ii) other categories? (a) the number of accidents on the (c) What was the value of goods Electric Train Services of Bombay and handled by them? passenger deaths due to them during (d) What was the total number of 1951, 1952 and 1953 respectively; and employees receiving their supplies ^ (b) the steps taken, if any, to pre from these shops? vent such accidents? (e) What was the amount of sub sidy paid to these shops? The Deputy Mhllster of Railwar^ and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) The Deputy Minister of Railways^ The information is furnished below:— and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) to (e). A fltatement giving the required to • of accidents No. of deaths information is herewith attached [See electric trains as a result o f the Appendix X, annexure No. 9.]* accidents 1951 6 _ A gricultural F a r m s 568. Shri Boovaraghasamy: (a) W ill 1952 6 I the Minister of Food and Agriculture 1953 7 I be pleased to state the number of (b) Steps taken include— Central Government Agricultural Farms: (i) Disciplinary action against in each State? staff held responsible for the acci (b) What acreage of land is be dents. ing cultivated in each Farm? ♦The original reply by the Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport reads as fo llo w s:— . “ (a) to (c), A statement giving the required information is herewith attached.” The reply as printed above was sent by the Deputy Minister afterwards in. substitution of the original reply. , 2873 Written Answers 13 MAY 1954 Written Answers 2874 (c) What amount is spent annual (b) The canteens attached to the ly by Government on each of these Office of the Northern Railway located Farms? in Delhi are run as follows:— The Minister of Food and Aericulture (i) Divisional Supdt.’s 13y the employees Office, New Delhi Bran- under the super- (Shrl Kidwai): (a) to (c). A statement chcs of Hcadquancrs vision of ihc ad- is laid On the Table of the House. [See Office at Mali Ruad and minisiraiicn. Appendix X, annexure No. lO.J ai KasbmiriCatc. ^2) Traffic Accounts By Co-opera live C a n t e e n s o n R a i l w a y s Office, Delhi Kishanganj. Stores. .569. Shri Ratnji Vcrma: Will the (3) Headquarters Office, By contr actors. Minister of Railways be pleased to Baroda House, New Delhi. slate: In the case of canteens worked by (a) the rules and orders for the the employees themselves, the pay of running of canteens in the Railway the manager only is borne by the offices; and canteen accounts and the supervision and management by railway em (b) what part of the cost of manage ployees is in an honorary capacity. ment and supervision of each of the In the case of canteens run by canteens attached to the Railway Co-operative Societies, 50 per cent, Board and the offices of the Northern of the cost of management for the first Railway located at Delhi is borne by 3 years is borne by the railway in Government? accordance with the policy of en couraging co-operative schemes. The Deputy Minister of Railways and Transport (Siiil Alafesani; (a) There is no canteen attached to the Some of the important iaistructions Railway Board’s Office. regarding setting up of canteens in Railway Offices are as under:— (1) Canteens should be ox>ened at SUTT^ points where considerable number of staff are concentrated. : aRrr win (2) Canteens should be run on a no a m 9^ fTcrr profit no-loss basis. f t : (3) Canteens should be run prefer ably on a departmental basis but there («P) w ii ^ ^ is no objection to the Consumer Co operative Societies taking over the run «rPT ^ irrrNY ning of canteens wherever this is pos sible. (4) Whether run department ally or ( ^ ) ?r, ^ ^ ^ otherwise, railway administtrations should provide and maintain the T m # ftfT^T ^ f f k required accommodation on a nominal w r Tfr ^FPT f?Tw r ? rental. Sanitary and electric installa tions, furniture and cooking utensils The Minister of Food and Airricul^ should be provided free of charge. tore (Shri Kidwai); (a) Yes, Sir. Charges on account of service taxes and consumption of electric and water (b) The Government of Himachal should also be borne by the Railway Pradesh are reported to have brought administration where necessary. an area of 162 acres under thl^ 2875 Written Answers 13 MAY 1954 Written Answers 2876 m ethod in 1953 and the results have giving the available information Is jshown an average increase in yield of placed on the Table of the House. 4 maunds per acre. Details in regard [5ee Appendix X, annexure No, 12.J to hilly tracts of other States are not (b ) Yield per acre of rice in 1953-54 available. declined in Himachal Pradesh, Mani P o s t a l L if e I n s u r a n c e pur and Vindhya Pradesh owing to adverse weather conditions. Yield per 571. Shri Krishnacharya Joshi: Will acre of wheat in 1952-53, the latest the Minister of Communications be year for which data are available, •pleased to state: showed a decline in Himachal Pradesh (a) the total number of new poli and Vindhya Pradesh due to insuffi cies issued under the Postal Life Insu cient rainfall during the growing rance Scheme in 1953-54; and period. (b) the total amount collected as vpremia during the same period? The Deputy Minister of Communl- jcations (Shri Raj Bahadur): (a) and (b). Information is in the process of ^collection and will be furnished as ( t ) IRT HTOT # vnr# -■soon as it becomes available. ^ fiurpfr "fTf«T?r” ?r«rT R a i l w a y S t o r e s ^ t ; ' 572. Shri Madiah Gowda: Will the Minister of Railways be pleased to (?r) ^ state: (a) the value of (i) electric bulbs, (ii) electric fans, (iii) train lighting batteries, and (iv) control apparatus (n) for these three items, purchased every spcr ^ ^ t ’ « f k year during last three years; and (b) the value of (i) indigenous manufactured and (ii) imported items, The Minister of Labour (Shri V. T. separately for each item? Giri): (a) and (c). During March 1954, 848 coal mines were being work The Deputy Minister of RaUways ed and all of them were considered to M d Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a)! be safe. From the 1st January, 1950 and (b). A statement giving the to the 4th M ay 1954, la 28 mines or necessary information is attached. parts thereof, certain matters, things ^ISee Appendix X , annexure No. 11.] or practices were considered unsafe and work in such cases was prohibited. A vera g e Y ie l d o f v a r io u s F o o d g r a in s Nine of them were permitted to resume r Shri K. K. Basu: work after the defects were remedied. \Shri N. B. Chowdhury: (b) 390. This figure relates to the Will the Minister of Food and Agri year 19.52. culture be pleased to state: B r id g e s (a) the yield per acre during the last four years of (i) Rice, (ii) Wheat. 575. Shri S. C. Samanta: WUl the (iii) Bajra, (iv) Sugar-cane, (v) To Minister of Transport be pleased to state: bacco and (vi) Jute; and (b) in which States yield ver acre (a) how far the proposed construc of rice and wheat has decreased? tion of bridges over the rivers Damo- dar at Bagnans. Rupnarain at Kola- The Minister of Food and Agricul- ghat, Cossye at Panskura and D u l a n g iurc (Shn Kidwai): (a) A statement at PhekoghaU, have progressed; 2877 Written Answers 13 MAY 1954 Written A?iswers 2875? (b) what is the estimated cost of lbs. each), which is almost the same each bridge; a.s last year’s. (c) whether any representation has (c) According to the programme of been made by the people near about cotton extension work for Andhra, it Kolaghat to change the alignment of is proposed to. bring an additional bridge at Kolaghat; and area of 30,750 acres under cotton during 1954-55, to grow cotton as a (d) if so, what action Government m ixed crop on an area of 295, have taken in the matterT acres under other crops and to utilise The Deputy Minister of Railways an area of 95,793 acres for intensive and Transport (Shri Alagesan): (a) cultivation. By these measures, an additional oroduction of 26,940 bales and (b). A statement giving the re quired information is attached. [See of cotton is expected to be obtained. Appendix X, annexure No. 13.] The Government of India have already sanctioned a loan of Rs. 1,50,000 to (c) Yes. the Andhra Government for purchase of cotton seeds during the current (d) The matter is under considera season. tion. Regarding groundnut, no extension- scheme is in force or proposed. How rFODL'CTION OF G rOUNDNUT AND C o TTON IN Rayalasebma ever the Government of India revXntljr sanctioned the establishment of a 576. Shri Lainhmayya: Will the regional Oilseeds Research Station in Minister of Food and Agriculture be Rayalaseema for a period of twa pleased to state: years in the first instance to deaU (a) what is the estimated produc inter alia, with groundnut, at a total tion of groundnut and cotton in cost of 88,992. Regarding cotton Hayalaseema in Andhra this year; and groundnut inglustries. material is? being collected and will be placed on (b) how this production compares the Table of the House. with that of last year; and (c) what measures are proi>osed to be taken by the Central Government T o b a c c o R e d r y i n o P i.a n t for developing cotton and groundnut industries in Rayalaseema? 576-A. Shri Ramachandra Reddi^ Will the Minister of Food and Agricul The Minister of Food and Agricul ture be pleased to state: ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) and (b). 1. Groundnut—The production of ground (a) whether the Tobacco Redrying nut in Rayalaseema in Andhra is esti Plant purchased by Government was mated to be 5,52«00Q tons in 1953-54 installed in Guntur; and as against 5,78,000 tons in 1952-53; showing a decrease of 26,000 tons or (b) if not, where was it installed? 4-5 per cent. The Minister of Food and Agricul 2. Cotton—^Final estimates of pro ture (Shri Kidwai): (a) No. duction of cotton in 1953-54 are not yet available. A c c o r d i n g to the latest (b) It has not yet been installed. (fourlji) estimate, the production in The Government of India have decid Hayalaseema in Andhra during 1^53-54 ed to sell it to the Guntur Markd^ is estimated at 74,000 bales (o f 392 Committee as desired by it. Contents Part II - Parliamentary Debates (Part II - Proceedings other than Questions and Answers) hrC 7267 7268 HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE rule 126 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Thursday, 13th May, 1954 Business in the Council of States with the request that the concurrence of the House The House met at a Quarter Past of the People to the said Eight of the Clock amendment be commimicat- ed to the Council. [M r . S p e a k e r in the Chair} QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS (ii) I am directed to inform the House of the People that the {See Part I) Delivery of Books (Public Libraries) Bill, 1954, which was passed by the House 9-5 A.M. of the People at its sitting MESSAGE FROM THE COUNCIL held on the 24th April, 1954, OF STATES has been passed by the Council of States at its Secretary: Sir, I have to report the sitting held on the 11th following three messages received May, 1954, with the follow from the Secretary of the Council ing amendment:— of States:— “That for the existing enacting (i) I am directed to inform the formula of the Bill, the following House of the people that be substituted, namely:— the Minimum Wages (Amend ment) Bill, 1954, which was ‘Be it enacted by Parliament passed by the House of the in the Fifth Year of the RepubHc People at its sitting held on of India as follows:— the 23rd April. 1954, has been .passed by the Coundl I am, therefore, to return here of States at its sitting held with the said Bill in accor on the n th May, 1954, with dance with the provisions of the following amendment:— rule 126 of the Rtdes of Procedure and Conduct of “That for the existing enacting Business in the Council of formula of the Bill, the following States with the request that be substituted, namely:— the concurrence of the House ‘Be it enacted by Parliament in of the People to the said the Fifth Year of the Republic of amendment be communicat India as follows:— ed to the Council. 1 am, therefore, to return here (iii) I am directed to inform the with the said BiU in accor House of the People that the dance with the provisions of H i^ Ck)urt Judge (Condi- 187 P.SJ). 7269 High Court Judges 13 MAY 1954 7270 {Conditions of Service) Bill [Secretary] tions of Service) Bill, PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE 1954, which was passed by the House of the P r e s s N o t e i s s u e d e y t h e G o v e r n - jO f REGARDING INDIA'S People at gs on the 24th April, 1954, RIGHTS AND JTTRISDICTION A S MEMBER OF SIDE JMTERNATIONA^ MILITARY TR I has been passed by the BUNAL FOR THE F a r E a s t. Council of States ft sitting held on the 12th Mr. Speaker: The Prime Minister May, 1954, with the follow will lay on the Table the copy of the ing amendment:— Press note issued by the Grovernment of !&idia regarding India’s ri^ ts and ‘That for the existing enacting jurisdiction as member of the Inter formula « f the Bill, the following national Military Tribunal for the l^e substituted^ nam ely:^ Far East. £uid then make a state it enacted by Parliament ment regarding the notice for calling m tie Fifth Year of the Re attention to a matter of urgent pub public of India as follows:—’ lic importance. I am, ther^ore, to return here The Prime Minister and Blinister with the said Bill in accor of Affairs and Defence (Shri dance wifli the provisions of Jawaharlal Nehru): I beg to lay on rule 126 of tiie Rules of the Table a copy of ttie Press Note Procedure and Conduct of issued by the Government of India 'Business in Counril of regarding Indians rights and jurisdic> States witii the request that tion as member of the International the concurrence of the House Military Tribunal for the Far East, of the People to the said containing a statement on the ques nTYi MINIMUM WAGES (AMENDMENT) BILL CALLING ATTENTION TO A MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC DELIVERY OF BOOKS (PUBLIC IMPORTANCE. LIBRARIES) BILL I n c l u s i o n o f P a k i s t a n a s t h e L e g a l UIGH COURT JUDGES (CONDI S u c c e s s o r o f U n d iv id e d I n d i a i n TIONS OF SERVICE) BILL THE C l e m e n c y A rrangements . Sardar A. S. Salgal (Bilaspur): Sir, Seeretary: Sir, I lay on the Table under Rule 215, I beg to call the of the House the following tihree attention of the Minister of External fells which have been returned by Affair^ to the following matter of ihe Council of states with an amend- urgent public importance and I re xnent:-— quest that he may make a statement thereon:— (i) The Minimum Wages (Amendment) Bm, 1954. “ (1) It is alleged that Govern ment of India have rejected as (ii) The Delivery of Books (Pub illegal the inclusion of Pakistan lic Libraries) BiU, 1954. as the leg^ successor of undivid (iii) The High Court Judges ed India in the clemency ar (Conditions of Service) Bill,. rangements. 1954. (2) The power of clemency to reduce sentences on Japanese CkLUing Attemtion 13 MAST 1954 to maUer of urgent PuhUc Jmportemx convicted of war crimes, by the (3) China International Military Tribunal for tile Far £ast is alleged to be (4) France restricted to Governments which ( 5 ) India signed and ratified the San Fran cisco Treaty of Peace. <6) The Netherlands (3) It is said that in 1952 the C7) New* Zealand question of clemency for the con (8) Philippines victed Japanese was referred by the Government of Japan to the (9) The United Kingdom Government of India and other tribunal members. It is also (10) The U.SJL said that U.S.A. Government in (11) ’Hie U.&SJL formed the Japanese Govern ment that jurisdiction in the The trial began in June lBi6 and question of clemency was res judgment was delivered in Novem tricted to such coimtries on the ber 1948. India’s representative on tribunal as had signed and rati the Tribunal was Dr. R. B. Pal, who fied the San Francisco Peace delivered a learned dissenting iudg- Treaty. ment. (4) Whether India’s right to In November 1952, the Japanese participate in the clemency pro Government ^^»oadied India, along: ceedings was inherent in her with the other Governments re membership of the Tribunal. presented on the Tribunal, with a request for clemency to twelve (5) Whether Government has Japanese war criminals who were also considered that the inclusion undergomg imprisonm^t for life. of Pakistan in the clemency pro The Government of India supported ceedings as successor to India, this request because Pakistan is a party to the Treaty and India is not, is warranted and legally tenable.” In March 1953, the Japanese Gov ernment informed our Embassy at The Prime Minister and Minister Tokyo that they had been advised of External Affairs and Defencc by the U.S.A. that only those Gov (Shri Jawaharlal N dira): If you ernments had jurisdiction in this^ would permit me, Sir, instead ol matter which had signed and rati trying to answer the question seria fied the San Francisco Peace Treaty^ tim, I shall make a brief statement which was signed in September 1951 on the facts. This is somewhat over and took effect from April 1952. Ac lapping the paper I have already cording to this interpretation, China,- laid on the Table of the House. India and the U.S.S.R., which did not sign the San Francisco Treaty, The International Military Tribu and the Philippines, which did not nal for the Far East w^as set up by ratify it, had no jurisdiction in the a Proclamation issued in January matter of clemency. On the other 1946 by the Supreme Commander hand, Pakistan which had signed for the Allied Powers in the Pacific and ratified the San Francisco Trea for the trial of Japanese was crimi ty, was held to have jurisdiction^ nals. The Governments of the fol even though she was not represented lowing eleven countries were mem on the Tribunal. bers qf the Tribunal: (1) Australia Article 11 of the San Francisc» Treaty provides that the powers o f m Canada ^em ency etc., will be exercised hy ^ 7 3 CoUmfif attention to 13 MAY 1954 Paper laid on the Table 7274 matter of urgent Public Importance [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] Government of India on the 10th a majority of the Governments re May, a copy. of which I have just presented on the Tribunal and on laid on the Table of the House. This the recommendation of Japan. Arti Note states briefly India’s case in cle 25 states that no rights or bene this matter. fits under the Treaty ^hall be con ferred on any State which has not The Government of India are whol signed and ratified it. ly unable to accept the view of the ^ The view of the Government of Governments named above and * India has been that Article 25 of the consider it a negation of the princi San Francisco Treaty, negotiatied and ples of international law and prac signed by third parties, cannot take tice. In their opinion, the exclusion away any right belonging to India as of India whose representative had a member of the TribxmaL Furtoer, all along functioned as a member of the Tribvmal’s judgment was deliver the Tribunal even after the partition ed long after the partition of India, of India, is completely arbitrary and and Dr. Pal was obviously acting has no justification whatever. Equal only for the Government of ^ dia ly arbitrary is the inclusion of and not for the Government of Pak Pakistan. The fact that India did not istan, Moreover, by the agreement sign the San Francisco Treaty and annexed to the Indian Independence Pakistan signed that treaty, has no {International Arrangements) Order relevance to this question. A treaty 1947, Membership of international signed by some of the countries, and organisations devolve solely on not signed by India, cannot bind In India. dia in any way and cannot affect India’s rights. Notes containing our views were delivered to all the Governments re As already stated, it was clearly presented on the Tribxmal and to the laid down at the time of the parti Japanese Government in April and tion of India that aU international May 1953. We received replies be commitments and membership of tween July and December 1953. The international organisations previous Governments of Australia, Canada, to the partition devolve solely on In France, Netherlands, New Zealand, dia. The interpretation, therefore, the U.K. and the U.S.A., reaffirm^ put by the other countries has their stand that India had no juris no justification whatever and the diction in the matter of clemency Government of India take a grave since she was not a party to the San view of this arbitrary use of au Francisco Treaty. They said further thority regardless of the principles that there was no question of India’s of international law and practice and vote being transferred to Pakistan. the circumstances governing this According to them. Pakistan had particular case. equal jurisdiction in this matter as one of the successor States to Bri tish India, and if India had been a party to the San Francisco Treaty, PAPER LAID ON THE TABLE both she and Pakistan would have had equal jurisdiction in the matter N otification u n d e r t h e REQUismoN- o f clemency. ING AND ACQUISmON OF IMMOVABLE P r o p e r t y A c t , 1952. In a further series of notes handed in April 1954 to the seven Govern The Minister of Works, Hoiisinr ments named above, the Government and Supply (Sardar Swaran Singh): of India have reaffirmed their stand. I beg to lay on the Table a copy of A Press Note was issued by the the Ministry of Works, Housing and 13 MAY 1954 Point of Privilege 7Z7& 7^75 Point of PriTnlege Supply Notification No. 2521-EU/54, of the People, 1 am writing this dated the 31st March, 1954, under to you.” sub section (2) of section 17 of the Requisitioning and Acquisition of I think this note very much nar Immovable Property Act, 1952. rows down the issue. I do not even [Placed in Library. See No. S- now express an opinion as I am keen 165/54.] that the procedure should once for all be settled after due consideration. It is not a matter of the prestige or GOVERNMENT OF PART C STATES dignity of this House or that House* (AMENDMENT) BILL and not a matter to be considered on Shri Dasaratha Deb (Tripura party lines, or with a kind of feeling East): I beg to present fourteen peti or pride for one’s own House. Botii tions signed by fourteen petitioners the Houses together form Parliament, in respect of my Bill further to amend and the prestige of one House should the Government of Part C States be equally zealously and jealously Act. 1951. guarded by the other House. But we . want to be clear as to what the pro POINT OF PRIVILEGE cedure should be for initiating pro ceedings, if at all they are thought Mr. Speaker: I received at about to be necessary, in case a Member of 5 P.M. last evening a letter from the one House is to be—I would not say Chairman of the Council of States charged—even approached for a which reads as under:— preliminary explanation in a matter “My dear Mr. Speaker, where the House feels that its dignity At the sitting of the (dirndl has been offended. Whatever decision of States yesterday (11th May is taken will apply equally to i ^ 1954) a Member sought my per tances in both Houses, If we decide mission to raise a question of on a particular way, then so far as privilege in respect of certain any Member of the Council of States statements reported to have been making any allegations or as made by Shri N. C. Chatterjee, persions, as this House may consider relating to the passing by the them to be, is concerned the procedure Council of States of the Special will be the same as in the case of Marriage Bill, in the course of a a Member of the House of the Peo speech made by him at Hydera ple—as in this case—^who is alleged bad on the 10th May, 1954, as to have made them. It is from this President of the All-India Hindu point of view that we have to look Mahasabha, at the concluding ses at the question and come to a deci sion of the Mahasabha and pub sion. I may repeat what I said yes lished in the local newspapers. terday that as this is the first oc According to the newspaper re casion which has arisen and as we ports, Shri Chatterjee is alleged nave to build up some kind of pro to have said that it was a ‘wonder per procedure and tradition, we may ful Parliament’ which was con discuss this matter in a dispassionate sidering the Bill, and that the way and come to an agreed con Upper House ‘which is supposed clusion in the interests of the rights to be a body of elders seems to be and privileges and also dignity of behaving irresponsibly like a pack both the Houses of Parliament, It of urchins.* Under my directions, is not a question of this House against the Secretary of the Council has the other House. Let there be no written to Shri Chatterjee en misimpression ' on that question. quiring whether the statements Therefore, I had said that I would attributed to him have been cor have the discussion postponed. rectly reported in the newspapers. As Shri N. C. Chatterjee hap Now, in the light of this letter pens to be a Member of the House which I have received from th« P oin t o f P rw O ete 13 MAY MM Point of PrtvOeg* 7278 [Mr. S|)«iykerl Chairman of the Council of States, all liiat; so that we have had an i should have personally thought, if e*wnpite of this. A t the present mo the House agrees, tiiat the matter ment nobody has been summoned by may be tiirashed out in the Privi anybody, only a courteous letter has leges Committee of this House where been sent. Are we to hang up the there will be ample time to discuss answer to that, because that is also these tttings. They may consult the discourteous? When the Chairman lk*embers of the Council of States of tiie other House has asked infor f ormally or informally and it will mation about the correctness of the lie better if the Privileges Com speech, is that letter to be hung up mittees of both the Houses come to a so that the Privileges Committee may common agreed decision about the consider about the procedure? That. procedure. I am not dealing witb I submit is a great discourtesy to tJie the merits, but 1 am only dealing Chairman of the other House. 'witii ttie procedure of initiation of any kind of enquiry, not even th» Mr. Speaker: I should not like to proceedings. That is my suggestian, carry on this discussion any but it is for the House to decide. further, but I am £^aid, so far as the statement of facts TMe V m e BBadster aad Leader of is concerned I am not able to tlM^ BoHse (SMri JawabarlaT N of elders seems to be behaving into what the hon. Leader of the HTesponsibly like a pack of Bouse has said as to whether the liTchins.” The words quoted question should stand over, and with have b ^ n made the subject- out prejudice to what the Privileges matter of a question of privilege Committee may ultimately decide raised by a Member of the Coun over the question of procedure, I cil of Spates at the sitting of the should suggest to Mr. Chatterjee that Council today on ihe ground that he may make a statement, give it they constitute a reflection on to TO and I can pass it over to the the proceedings of the House and Chairman of the Council of States. a violation of the rights and That will satisfy the Chairman^s privilegeis of the House;” desii-e to have facts and that will al so not prejudice the decision on the It is contended that this is something procedural question. But tiiese are in the nature of a charge-sheet. The all suggestions which I am making. letter continues:— “It has been further contended Shri N. C. Chatterjee (Hooghly): that these words amount to an Sir, I will certainly comply with indignity offered to the Coun wtiatever is yoiu* wish. I only want cil...... ” (Interruption.) to make it clear that it was not my mtention to create a breach or Sfan Syed Ahmed (Hoshangabad): cleavage l>etween the two Houses. I It is not a charge; it is only a state thii* it was my duty as a Member ment of facts. of this House to bring it to tiie notice of you as Speaker and my hon. Mr. Speaker: I am not interested friends here at tiie earliest possible in this or that side; I am not interest opportunity after I had been served ed in this or that House, and this with a writ or notice of that charac Member or that Member. Therefore, ter. Now, Hie on!y tiling I am ask I said advisedly, let us apiwoachthis ing with yoxir permission— hope question dispassionately. The letter you wvill agree and the House will further says:— agree—is that I do not want to submit “Tt has been further coritend- to the jtirisdiction of that House in eif that these words amount to any maimer whatsoever and I am afh indignity offered to the Coun contending that imder the Constitu cil of States. Before the Chair- tion the privilege of this House has Ttiah takes further action in the been equated to the privilege of the matter. I am directed to request British House of Commons. So far that you . . .etc . . . .etc as I have be^n able to imderstand the constitutional position, no Member The ultimate object is of course to of one House can be made to submit ascertain tiie truth of it. The whole to the jurisdiction of the other House. tenor appears to me to be that of a writ. I may be wrong on that point Bilrl Speaker: What I am suggest ■and people may differ in their inter ing is, as I said, without prejudice to pretations. That is why I think the the rights of the hon. Member and qt^stibn is important, so far as the subject, of course, to the ultimate procedure is concerned and if the decision by consent—^1 hope there House agrees I will refer it to the will be consent and agreement on Privileges Committee here and now. this subject—of both the Houses or If the matter were one of simply PrivDeges Committees of both the asking for the correctness of the Houses; the hon. Member may make statement it stands entirely differ^t. a statement in the form of a reply To my mind, it is not in the nature so that that will solve the difficulty of a request. What the Chainrian of keeping the matter pending over, has written is unexceptionable. I I do not want the matter to be kept should suggest, even witiiout going over and the explanation withheld 7281 Point of Privilege 13 MAY 1954 Point of Privilege 728a [Mr. Speaker] for an unduly long time from the for all time to come, should be dis hon. Chairman. If the hbn. Member cussed dispassionately, in an at has said it. he has said it. I may al mosphere which is free from any so say that prima facie I would have kind of feeling or bias. That is why wished him not to have said these I am keen or rather particular that words. there should be no discussion merely by reference to precedents in other Shri N. C. Chatterjee: I can assure coxmtries. There are precedents in you. Sir, that I have been misreport- other countries. But, we have to ed, but I can communicate to you develop our own. We have to see exactly what I have said and it will what is best in the interests of our be for you to pass on the same to own country rather than take from the Chairman. outside. That is why I suggested joint consultations between the Privi Mr. Speaker: WiU that be suffi leges Committees of both Houses. I cient? am sure they will come to agreed conclusions. In the meanwhile, the Shri Jawaharlal Nehni: I have no position will be clarified so far as thing to say about this discussion if this particular matter is concerned you are pleased to decide that it by Shri N. C. Chatterjee giving a may be referred to the Privileges statement of facts to me to be for Committee, A little before that you warded to the Chairman of the Coun have been pleased to decide that it cil of States. I think that should be will be a matter of consent of both quite a satisfactory solution. the Houses. WiU it not be better if the two Privileges Committees meet together to consider—^not this ques Some Hon. Members rose— tion I mean—^but the wide issue? Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I shall first hear the hon. Law Minister. Mr. Speaker: That is what I said. I said that the two Committees may Shri Biswas: What I wanted to say meet together, discuss the matter and was this, just to dispel the mis come to some common agreed pro apprehension on a question of fact. cedure. The position is that the Chairman of the Council of States has not yet The Minister of Law and Minority taken cognizance, nor did he take Affairs (Shri Biswas): May I say... cognizance, of the complaint which was made to him. Before he took Some Hon. Members rose — any steps, he wanted to be satisfied whether the newspaper report upon Mr. Speaker: Order, order. It which he was called upon to take seems, since yesterday morning when action was correct or not. That is Shri N. C. Chatterjee made the mo about all. He has not yet taken any tion or mentioned the point of pri cognizance. The use of the words vilege, the question at present, to my ‘taking action’ in the letter of the mind,—hon. Members will excuse me Secretary of the Council of States —is more dominated by feelings than seems to have given rise to a mis any other thing. apprehension as if the Chairman was in seisin of the matter and was Some Hon. Members: No, no. contemplating disciplinary action or Mr, Speaker: I am prepared to ac action for breach of pri's^ege against cept that no. I am merely stating a Member of this House. Nothing of my reactions. What 1 want is tiiat the kind. Let me assure you that all such questions of importance, that was not intended and that was which set a precedent for the future, not actually the case. He did not 7283 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7284 Constituencies Constituencies take cognisance of this matter. He made and it has come in the form has to be satisfied as to the truth of of a two hour discussion. This is a the newspaper report. The question very important matter. Coming at of taking any steps would come 10 o’clock last night, we had no time subsequently. That would depend to prepare for the discussion. There* on the reply which came from Shri must be sufficient time. There have N. C. Chatterjee. That was made been many grievances that the order quite clear in the letter of the Secre of business in the House has not tary. been conveyed to the Members in proper time to enable them to study. Mr. Speaker: With agreement on I submit that this matter should not the question that the matter be re be proceeded with today; it may be ferred for consideration to the Pri taken up tomorrow. vileges Gbmmittee of this House as also the Privileges Committee of the Mr. Speaker: I was informed, and other House, and that they may I believe that I was informed correct jointly consult and come to agreed ly, that whatever had to be done had conclusions, I do 'not think we need to be done before the 17th. Looking raise any kind of controversy at this to the programme before the House, stage, which I am sure, will not be there was no other alternative for to the dignity of either House. me but to put down this motion for discussion as early as possible and I Shri S. S. More (Sholapur) rose—* got time only today. If the House Mr. Speaker: I do not want to is agreeable, all that is i>ossible will hear anything more. Order, order. be to proce^ with the reply of the I am referring the question to the hon. Minister and after he has finish Privileges Committee of this House ed, we may take this up. That would which will act in the light of what give the hon. Members half an hour I have said above. or so. Let me know from the hon. Law Minister what time he will take Shri S. S. More: I want to seek to reply to the debate on the Bill. an assurance, with your permission. The Minister of Law and Minority Mr. Speaker: No. no. I do not Affairs (Shri Biswas): About half want anything at present. He can an hour or so. give it to me in writing. I will see it and if it is permissible, I will per Mr. Speaker: It cannot be helped., mit him to take it up on some other Shri Piumoose (Alleppey): Let us day. stick to the schedule. That automatically drops the next Mr. Speaker: Let us stick to the item of business on the agenda. Now, programme. Dr. Krishnaswami. discussion on Delimitation of Consti tuencies. Dr. Krishnaswami (Kanch^^ puram): I am deeply indebted to the Leader of the House for having DELIMITATION OF CONSTI given xis this opportunity of dis TUENCIES cussing the procedure and the man ner of approach adopted by the Deli Shri Vallatharas (Pudukkottai): I mitation Commission in delimiting want to raise a point of order. Last constituencies and re-adjusting re night at about 10 , o’clock, the Order presentation. I intend placing be« Paper was handed over to us, about fore this House certain facts which it the business for today. The Deli cannot afford to overlook. mitation question is a very impor tant one. A number of resolutions This House, after *all, is interested were tabled. One came up; but it in its composition and constitution. was not moved by the concerned The Delimitation Commission is after Member. Afterwards an attempt waa all a creature of a Parliamentary * ^ 5 Delimitation of la VLAt Iflfec Delimitation of 7^86 C&nstituericies Constituencies fDr. Krishnaswami] and in the State Legislative Assem £nactment. Parliament conferred up- blies and the delimitation of those tm the Commission powers to pass constituencies and for matters con orders about the readjustment nected therewith” . ,of representation which will have the force of law. Two weeks ago, the The basic fact which has to be Delimitation Commission has pub taken into account and which is also lished its provisional proposals, re a limitation, is the actual existence lating to readjustment of represen of territorial constituencies on the tation of two States—Madras and date of the Constitution coming into Andhra, operation and of each census. Exist ing territorial constituencies cannot [Mr. Depxjty-Speaker in the Chair.] be ignored or put aside, but have to Fifteen Parliamentary consti be taken as the basis, and any re tuencies in the State of Madras vision or adjustment of such existing have been mangled beyond recogni constituencies must, be directly re tion. Twelve in Andhra have been lated to the increase in population sliced up and regrouped after the of each constituency and the need heart’s desire of the Commission. for revision so as to bring it within Twelve, both in Madras and Andhra, the limits mentioned in article 81(1) have lost their names altogether. There is great dissatisfaction in Mad ras, Andhradesa, Madhya Pradesh and What has the commission done? I Travancore-Cochin concermng the sug^st that the Delimitation Com- procedure and manner of approach nii^ion has gone outside the powers adopted by the Delimitation Com that have been conferred on it by mission, We ought to remember Parliament, that it has overstepped that under article 81(3) Parliament the prescribed limits laid down by obtained the enabling power to legis the Constitution. The Constitution- late for the constitution of a Delimi makers were most scrupulous in tation Commission. May I with their choice of words. They did not your permission read the particular intend that every census operation article so that hon. Members might should be followed by an annihila be aware of the exact implication of tion of constituencies. Indeed examl* that article. Article 81(3) reads as nation of the evolution of this partS^ cular <^use reveals the wealth bi follows; constitutional precedents that had “Upon the completion of each been taken into account by them. In census, the r^resentation of the the Irish Free State Constitution, a several ti^itorial constituencies provision relating to repres«atatioti in the House of the People sha^ reads as follows: be readjusted* by sucfi authority, in such manner and with effect “The Oireaefetes shall revise from such date as Parliament the constituencies at least once in every 12 years, with due re may by law determine: gard to change in distribution Provided that such readjust of tiie population, but any altera ment ^ a ll not affect representa tions in the constituencies shall tion in tiie House of the People not take effect during the life until the dissolution of the then of Dail Eireann sitting when existing House.” such revision is made.” Now let me read the enacting for- Our Constitution-makers as a mtila of the Act. It is an Act “to matter of fact not satisfied with ‘revi provide for the readjustment of the sion^ took great trouble to find an representation of territorial consH- other and more appropriate term. tuencies in the House of the People They thought that revision might re- 73*sr 13 MAT i m DeUmitxaim &f 7488 Constituencieg Congtitueneies motely suggest slicing up and scrap tne Constitution could have eat^gori- ping up of constituencies. They, caHy affirmed its in t^ io n in diffe therefore, thought it better that a rent language as it has done in ar- more definite and a more restrictive ucie (3) regarding alterations and term should be employed. Ther&- formation of new Stales. The pro lore» they consulted the Constitution cedure and approach adopted by our of Canada in which a sli^tly diffe Constitution-makers to the problems rent word is employed, and that of readjustinent of territorial con- word has been put into our Consti stituencieis is correct and in confor tution. The provision in the Cana mity with the inherent theory and dian Constitution reads thus: f»incipi€ of democracy. A Member represents a constituency. A Mem ‘*On the completioD of the cen ber is entitled to and is expected to sus in the year 1871, and of be in touch with his coiBtituency. ^ach subsequent decennial cen The constituency should not, there sus, the representation of the fore, undergo any more revision or four Provinces shall be read rnmsformation than is absolutely es justed by such authority, in such sential to keep within the limits en manner, and from such time, as visaged by article 81 (1) (a). the Parliament of Canada from time to time provides, subject The view that I have propounded and acceding to the following gains confirmation from what we rules:...” have done in the present Parlia ment. We passed the Constitution Headjustment implies that there is a (Second Amendment) A ct 1952, thing which is to be readjusted. which removted the upper limit of Parliament did not therefore confer 750.000 of population for a terri upon the Delimitation Commission torial constituency, mainly, if not the power to scrap the old consti solely, with a view to retaining the tuencies or to create new constituen identity of the existing constituen- cies. ParliHment did not intend to cieSi If the territory of a constitu give ijie DrtiBiitation Commission ency is to be disturbed fundamental the powers? of a Brahma. What it ly. if the identity of a constituency h ^ inleiuied was that the Delimita is to be obliterated altogether as has: tion Cbmmissicm should content it- been done by the Delimitation Com s^f witit SHE& revisions or read»- mission in the case of several con.- justments so as to tiring, the corstitu- stituencies. then, after each census encies within the limit mentioned in operation we would have confusion auticle 81 (1) (a). and the very idea of continuity which is the basis of representative Gov- I do not know if hon. Members emmeort will have received a death are familiar with the provisions of blow. the Delimitstion Commissicm Act. The idea ot continuity in a demo But I should like them to consider cracy implies the aiwoval or di»- the provisions of this Act and find apiMtw^ of the electorate that has out what has taken place; What has once elected a representative. If the occurred has a very serious bearing constituency ceases to exist altoge on the idea and continuance of re ther. the connection between the re presentative government. presentative and the constituency A& I have already^ pointed out. the wottld have been snapped altogether. Constitution contemplated readjust It is in future impossible to think of ment and not a new creation of tei^ nursing constituencies. ritbrial donstituencies. The very I should like further to point out notion of readjustment postulates that unlike the D^imitation Com the existence and identity of the mission the Coastitution-makers have -thing to be readjusted. Otherwise. wisely emphasized thfe nexus that 7289 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7290 Constittiencies Constituencies [Dr. Krishnaswami] must be maintained between a Mem> until the dissolution of the then ber and his constituency. The pro existing House.” viso to article 81 (3) implies that no more revision or readjustment than What does this mean? The Consti is absolutely necessary will be made tution-makers envisaged only read and that essentially and fundamen justment and not complete transfor tally the identity of the constituency mation of existing constituencies. will not be affected. Otherwise, the If, during the lifetime of Parliament,, theory of an elected Member still readjustment takes place, Members representing a constituency becomes will be deemed to represent the new absolutely meaningless and the basic constituencies notwithstanding such idea of democracy vanishes altoge readjustment. But if the changes ther. The democratic idea, after aU. are of a serious character, so as to- is that a Member represents voters alter the very identity of the consti of a particular constituency, and not tuencies. the Members cannot by a tract of land as the Delimitation any exercise of logic be deemed to Commission seems fallaciously to as represent any particular area. sume. The particular territorial constituency must be actually in I have suggested enough to prove existence and not be there by any that the Delimitation Commission process of fiction. While it is agreed has usurped powers and jurisdiction —and I am not here to put forward which were never conferred on it. an indefensible proposition—^that no It has forgotten I repeat that it is, Member has a vested right to conti after all, a creature of parliamentary nue for all time as a Member of the enactment. No commission, how House, it would be equally appro ever eminent it may be, can afford to priate to point out that existing be above the Constitution, and Par Members have a definite right and liament has an inherent right to re duty to nurse their constituencies, to view the doings of this body. understand the views of their voters, There is no point in suggesting that to appreciate their grievances and just because it is a statutory body, to take into account their wishes, so therefore, it should be immune from that they might make proper repre criticism. A statutory body's deci sentation to Parliament. If the very sions cannot I grant be brought b&^ identity of a constituency is destroy fore this House, for amendment, re ed altogether, what can a Member view or change; but surely the pro do except to ignore the views of cedure and the manner in which it those who have elected him and look has tackled these problems can and to some other new constituency for should be brought before this House, the purpose of nursing it? This is* particularly as this House has decid opposed to all canons of democracy. ed to co-operate with It in the re adjustment of representation. I made a reference some time ago to the proviso to be found to article What is the approach adopted by 81 (3). The Constitution-makers this Delimitation Commission—^the themselves were extremely reluctant creature of a parliamentary enact to break, as I said, the nexus that ment? My hon. friend Dr. Lanka should subsist between the elected Sundaram is an associate member of representative and the electors. Ar the Delimitation Commission. But ticle 81 (3) and the provision to this the manner in which he was treated sub-clause emphasize this all the by the Delimitation Commission more. The proviso to article 81 (3) throws a flood of light on the pom reads! pous approach that was adopted by “Provided that such readjust- the Chairman of the Delimitation m «it shall not affect represen Commission. My hon. friend Dr. tation in the House of the People Lanka Sundaram pointed out on one 729i Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7292 Constituencies Constituencies Two days after that I rani: uo the D^. Lanka Sundaram: If you wHI Commission- I do not know the permit me I will come to it a littte- Secretary of the Commission; I have later. I am trying to draw attenticm had no opportimity of meeting him. to the arbitrary abrupt and un^ I asked him whether the Commission reasona.ble manner in which the* would give us a suitable date. Do Commission have been proceeding. you know the answer I got? I declare Leave aside my convenience. The it with honour. He said. ‘After aU Government of the State of Andhra the Commission has got to do some must oe consulted. They asked fo r work*. As if we have nothing to do. postponement. But the meeting was- That is a small point. And, lo and held. behold, a few days after the date of I will go a step further. I declare,, the meeting, it was postponed abrupt after making competent enquiries, in ly, for what reason. I do not know. good faith, and in a bona fide Then a further date was fixed. manner, something which will: astound the House. As you know. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Evidently to Sir, my constituency consists of two accommodate 4he hon. Member. revenue districts. Even today the Dr. Lanka Sundaram: No, Sir; to Collectors of these two districts have accommodate their office conveni not been consulted or asked to make ence proposals in this regard. DeUmitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 73^2, 7311 Constituencies Constituencies Dr. Lanka Smidagam: Posttwne- Shri Yelayodhan: Why should they ment of the flnajisation ol the im be consulted? pending orders of the Delimitation Dr. Lanka Snndaram: Let my Commission with respect to the friend have a little patience. I am States which have just now been leading up to the position. Is the completed. I agree with the state Commission an omniscient body? ment made by my hon. friend Dr. Does it manufacture proposals from Krishnaswami that the Delimitation its brain caps? What is the basis of Commission must append to each the recommendation sought to be proposal the reasons for making that recommendation, without which it made in this provisional Order now will not be fair to this honourable gazetted? Where do they get it from? The Andhra Government has not House and to the voter at large. submitted any proposals. Shri S. S. More (Sholapur): Under Mr. Depaty-Speaker: But do they what provision can we make all these not have the previous proposals? changes or give all these directions? If you refer to section 4 of the De Dr. Lanka Snndaram: After all you limitation Commission Act which we will appreciate all of us have to pro have passed, under which the Com ceed with a sense of responsibility. mission is functioning, you will Sc in the final paragraph of my that they are given complete Dower minute of dissent I wrote: to readjust constituencies. “I am most anxious that ihe Mr. Depaty-Speaker: It seems to proposals of the Delimitation be a matter of interpretation of read Commission should not give rise justment. In the earlier portion trf to any justifiable grievance that the article in the Constitution it considerations other than those refers to grouping, dividing, and so involved in population growth on. readjusting the constituency after have become involved.” every census in the light of any m- rrease in population. "What the I on. I am prepared to suggest, and very Member evidently sayg is that the seriously, that considerations other readjustment is not done properly. than the implications of the census have gone into this business. I agree Shri S. S. More: We are at a dis- with your admonition, Mr. Deputy- aavantage. Are we trying here to Speaker, and you have seen my be implement what we meant by read haviour in this House. I do not want justment? to make any wild or irresponsible statement. But I do not think that Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That is the the procedure adopted by the Com clarification they want. mission, in the light of the documents Shri S. S. More: According to the and the letters of correspondence between me and the Commission and request he made this House should between the Andhra Government postpone the finalisation of this. and the Commission, is correct. That Dr. Lanka Snndaram: I want the is the reasofi why I signed the motion Commission to postpone the flnalisa- along with my hon. friend Dr. tion. Krishnaswami a few weeks ago to have a debate on the resolution Shri S. S. More: Who is to ask which unfortunately could not get them? through because of certain difficulties. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He is appeal ing to the hon. the Law Minister. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What is it that the hon. Member wants this Dr. Lanka Simdaram: My friend House to do? has misimderstood my point. I am Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 7313 Delimitation of 73H Constituencies Constituencies [I>r. Lanka Sundaram] not asking this House to postpone the Shrt D. C. Sharraa: For the Punjab finaisation. because it has no juris there has been no increase in tije diction in the matter. j am taking number of seats; actually there has this opportunity in this House to been a decrease. convey to the Delimitation Commis sion through my hon. friend the Law Dr. Lanka Sundaram: I am not Minister that in the light of what we asking for an increase. I will give an have said so far. and in the light of example regarding the Scheduled what other hon. Members may say Tribes and sit down. As you know, in rne next few minutes, they should defer finalisation of the proposals Sir, and as the House knows, I repre sent a joint constituency with which for all practical purposes, as Scheduled Tribes. I am now at the far as I am concerned, are arbitrary. moment arguing against my own There is one further point I wish personal interest. It is an argument to make. Under the Constitution which I incorporated in my minute this honourable House and the De of dissent There are about seven limitation Commission itself have lakhs of Scheduled Tribes in Andhra- certain obligations to the Scheduled desh spread over East Godavari, Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. Visakhapatnam and part of Srika- You. Mr. Deputy-Speaker, coming kulam Agencies, the largest being in from Andhra are familiar with the East Godavari. But in the last de geography of the area, and you v/ill limitation, God alone knows for what see that the interests of the Schedul reason, tliey were disenfranchised ed Castes and the Scheduled Tribes for parliamentary ^election :md a have been completely jeopardised as double constituency was given to me. a result of some of the recommenda Do you know the proposal today? tions of the Delimitation Commis The Scheduled Castes of Dandakar- ‘ sion. You will see that the Schedul anya in East Godavari District are ed Caste constituency of Eluru has continued to be disenfranchised. My been abolished and shifted to Nellore. double member parliamentary consti I am referring to the parliamentary tuency has been abolished. And the constituency. Scheduled Tribes are given a double Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shifted from member constituency in the north, at one to another? Vizianagram, where there is hardly any Scheduled Tribe population com Dr. Lanka Sandanua: It is a ques pared to my area or Dandakaranya, tion of readjustment! The point I In other words there is no unification wish to make is this. of the Scheduled Tinbes south of the Vindhyas. I do not know how the Shri A. M. Thomas (Ernakulam): Delimitation Commission has arrived In which place is there more con at this conclusion. As I said, and I centration of Scheduled Castes? repeat, I am now arguing against my Dr. Lanka Snndaram: That is what own personal interests. Under the Constitution we have a special I want to know! There is no in responsibility for the , Scheduled crease in the number of seats in the Tribes. This is only as an illustra House of the people for Andhra State tion of how we are trying to dis even though there is an increase in population. That is a point which I charge that responsibility. think the House should remember. These remarkable series of changes I request the hon. the Law Minis completely wiping out existing con ter to convey to the Delimitation stituencies have been made. I shall Commission on behalf of the Hoiise. give one important illustration re at the appropriate moment, that they garding the Scheduled Tribes. should not proceed post-haste with 73^15 Delimitation of 13 M AY 1954 Delimitation of 7 3 i6 ConstitueTicies Constituencies the finalisation of these proposals, bly constituency they will have the because once it is gazetted finally and taluk units upheld. the President’s order comes none can Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Are there any challenge it. i can give him an assur general principles under which the ance that I am not contesting the delimitation is now being done? V/hy validity of the President’s order, nor are they going over the existing do I question the character and the constituencies? integrity of the members of the Com mission. But I am certainly here to Shri Bamachandra Beddi: J have condemn the arbitrary and, if you not seen any such principles noted would permit me to say, the irration down, but we as Members of Parlia al proceaure so far adopted. ment expect generally that there would be the least interference with Shri Ramachandra Reddi (Nel- the existing constituencies. I did not lore): I have got a very few observa have enough time to devote to the tions to make on this motion, I agree recent orders of the Commission, as generally with the views that have such I am not in a position to been expressed by the two previous describe them in greater details. I speakers. I am reminded here of the would therefore only touch upon a Telugu saj^ing that when a pupil few points of general interest. was asked to draw the picture of his teacher, he drew it, and in the end From a perusal of the report of a it was found to be not the picture of couple of districts with which 1 am his teacher but that of a monkey. acquainted. I feel that these principl es have been violently violated Shri D. C. Sharma: I must say it is and I think that the Commission very insulting to the teaching profes should be requested once again to sion. revise their orders on that behalf. For instance, the constituency that 1 An Hon. Member: Let us hear the represent consists of three Govern Telugu saying. ' ment taluks and two ex-estate taluks. In two Government taluks and two Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Let us not estate taluks there were only three spend away the time. That is not M.L.A. general constituencies. Now, part of the delimitation. they have been increased to four after subtraction of a substantial Dr. Lanka Sundaram: Let us de area. Instead of three members for limit the teacher I the Assembly, they have created four members for lesser area and with the Shri Ramachandra Reddi: A casual same boundaries, of course with a perusal of the delimitation proposals few adjustments in the taluk boun impresses upon anybody that the daries, and two of them will be principles have not been properly from Scheduled classes. ' adhered to and reasonable methods have not been adopted in the de Mr. Depaty-Speaker: What is the limitation of the constituencies. We percentage of increase in population expected when we passed this Act there, has it doubled? and also when a Commission for de Shri Ramadhandra Reddi: I do not limitation was appointed that certain think so; this is a barren and dry fundamental principles would be area. I do not think there is any observed by them and those funda possibility of the population being mental principles being that they doubled. I do not think it could should interfere in the least with re have put in its quota of 10 per cent, gard to existing constituencies and within ten years. that they should have the district imits unchanged as far as possible. Therefore, I feel that some sort of Another principle was that for Assem- vociferous influence has been brought 7317 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 73 Constituencies Constituencies [Siri Ramachandra Reddi] upon the Commission and they were district. I feel that in certain cases made to think that a few adjustments the Congress influence has had its here and there would be suitable. own piay upon the decisions. But. I am afraid that influence is de Shri Achuthan (Crangannur): pendent upon certain local conditions. Certain people who are anxious to Quite the reverse was our experi ence. retain their influence or mem.bership in those particular* constituencies Shri Ramachandra Eeddi: The want to safeguard their constitu- reason is.—I am replying to my hoh, ^ cie s and influence. They alsow^ant friend Shri Achuthan—^that in each to add on a few more Scheduled class district there are two Congress seats to those constituencies with the parties, the more influential gets the result that instead of three seats in better of it and the less influentiaU the same area there will be now six gets the worst of it. That is a thing seats in their pockets. This is one which every hon. Member in this point thai I wanted to mention. House is aware of. I never wanted to make a mention of it. but Shii Then, we had for that district, two Achuthan drew me into that. general seats and one Scheduled class seat for the Parliament Now they Now, after the change in these have cut off one general seat and it constituencies, some of them have has been reduced to one seat for the been made very small ones and some of Scheduled class and one general seat, them have been made very unwieldy;, having taken away a portion of the single member ^ constituencies have previous constituency. Instead of been doubled up and double member giving the Scheduled class a seat constituencies have been changed. In there, if the density of population is these circumstances one would wish the criterion, they could be tacked on that the matter is reviewed once the Scheduled class seat to the West again and the necessary adjustments Godavari district where that popula made. I feel that these constitu tion is of greater density than in encies have been used as ‘potter’s Nell ore. Thus, the density of ooDUla- earth’ which can be squeezed into tion has not been properly consider any shape while it is wet. Whatever ed. I am not pleading for removal might be the shape, the Commission or retention of any particular seat in did not very much mind it, but they any particular constituency at all. I were only led by certain impressions am speaking generally about the way of their own creation. I have got the in which things are being managed. greatest respect for the Chairman as well as members of that Commission, As a matter of fact, it is only when but I am sure that they have not a particular Member has got the been properly advised by those opportunity of nursing his own con oeople who have been taken to stituency that he can stand in that advise them. constituency and secure success. But, Dr. Luika Snndaram: Where ?s the here, by the recent order of the De advise; neither the Collector nor the limitation Commission nursing of the Government? constituency has been made impos sible. Instead of having taluks as Shri Ramachandra Reddl: As point the units they have cut off the taluks ed out by Dr. Lanka Sundaram if into several pieces and mad>e Firkas the State Governments and the as the headquarters of certain con Collector of each district are stituencies. I see them to a large not consulted and their views extent in my own district. Since I not taken, I do not know am acquainted with my district I am whom they consulted and whose ad trying to point out the defects in my vice they have taken. That is w hy 7319 DeUmitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 732 Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The Com mission is not responsible for that. 171616 is a clear distinction between the language of article (81) (1) (b). Shri Velajrudhan: The Speaker is and the language of 81 (3). As you responsible. have pointed out Sir. article 81 (1) (b) talks of the States being divided Mr. Deputy-Speaker: We are not into groups or formed into territo going into those matters. rial ccmstituencies. That has relation to the original scheme of things. Now. I am reading article 81 (3): Shri Velayudhan: There is only one remedy now, viz., to amend section 9 of the Act. The Law Minister “Upon the completion of each should bring a Bill after the sub census, the representation of the mission of the whole report by the several territorial constituencies Delimitation Commission, and then the House of the People shall be we will have to discuss it and decide readjusted-----” the whole thing. There is difference between the initial' TTIT (f%c7T — division and subsequent readjustment. The question of readjustment has -- Tter— : WE2TJ5T arisen because of a possible increase in the population or, maybe, a de crease in 'the population. We have set a figure that there shall be one f I Member for every 750,000 people of the population and not more than Shri Raghnramaiah (Tenali): I am one Member for every 500,000 of the one of those who have been con population. Suppose in an existing siderably surprised at the manner in constituency there is an increase in the” which delimitation has been and is population and there are more than being conducted. It looks though 750,000—or below the minimum speci somebody has taken his scissors and fied here—then there is a case for' is cutting up the map of India in readjustment It was never obvious straight cuts without any regard to ly intended by this article that there the circumstances of each particular shall be a wholesale cross-cutting o f area. It is I think, a cross-country the entire country. The same langu trot. age, you will not notice, Sir, has beei> 7325 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7326 Constituencies Constituencies [Shri Raghuramaiah] adopted in the Delimitation Com them. They are perfect gentlemen^ mission Act. I am regarding section they are nice gentlemen they are 8 of the Act; honest gentlemen. I am only saying this to show that I am not attacking “The Commission shall, in the them personally, but I do protest manner herein provided, first de that the treatjnent given to associate termine on the basis of the latest members is not what is contemplated census figures— in section 5 of the Act. There per- ’ (a) the number of seats to be haps the word “assisting” is being allotted to each of the misconstrued. When we introduced States in the House of the the word “assisting”, I think all that People___ and in doing so, was meant was that associate mem shall have regard to the bers should not have a right of provisions of article 81 and voting but that there should article 330-----” be a weight attached to their advice because they are either Mem It is, therefore, clear that this Act bers of Parliament or Members of the cannot and does not purport to give State Assemblies and they have got any more powers than what is con abundant experience in the matter. templated under article 81, and the I agree that something* must be Commission, in so far as it has gone done. The question is: what is to be on dividing up the whole country as done? My friend. Dr. Krishnaswami, if the constituencies never existed, has has suggested that an ordinance should gone much beyond the spirit of arti be issued giving a kind of direction cle 81. I also agree and that is pro as to the interpretation of article 81; bably a matter in respect of which in other words, directing the Com we have to bear some share of the mission that the alterations that they fault that the status of the associate make shall be onlv in the nature of members in the Commission is not at readjustment here and there. But I all consistent with the dignity of this submit that such an ordinance would House. Unfortunately, in section 5 be wholly unnecessary because it is of the Act we have chosen the words clear—abundantly clear—^from the “for the purpose of assisting the Com section itself, from the article of the mission in the readjustment of the re Constitution itself, that they shall not presentation” . I do not know what do anything more than a readjust impression we have given to the Com ment There is also Mother difficul mission by the use of the word ty. In the case of some of the States “ assisting” . I suppose the idea was I understand the proposals of the not that associate members should be Delimitation Commission have already treated like any other member of the become final. If we issue instruc Public but that there should be some tions at this stage, I do not know weight attached to their advice. It what IS going to happen to the pro was not I think, the intention of this posals which have already been made House when it passed the measure, by the Commission in respect of some that they should be ignored comple of the States and have become final. tely. I think we should devise some ma I think in very many cases the chinery which should apply equally •Commission has treated the advice to the States in respect of which pro given by the Members of the State posals have been made and the States Assemblies and Members of Parlia in respect of which the Commission’s ment with scant respect. I would proposals are now being awaited. like to record my strong protest at In this case I agree with Mr. Velay- the manner in which it has been done. udhan that the proper coune, situat In saying that I have not got ed as we are today, is" to amend anything personal against mem section 9 of the Act. Section 9 of bers of the Commission. I know the Act contemplates that as soon as 7327 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7^ 8 Constituencies Constituencies proposals are made and as soon as and where grave errors are commit they are published in the Gazette of ted, to interfere and set matters right India and they become final, they iihall be laid before the House of the I would only repeat what I have People. There is not even, obviously, stated at the very commencement. I a right of discussion and nothing is and the many other speakers of this specified in this A ct morning have nothing personal against the members of the Commis We simply receive them on the sion, It does not matter how the Table of the House. constituency of each one of us is set ' Dr. Lanka Snndaram: May I inter down, but we are interested in the rupt the hon. Member? You may lay fact that what the Commission is now it down that when a paper is laid doing will, if this interpretation of on the Table of the House, it is open article 81 of the Constitution is allow to the House to discuss it if it ed to stand, jeopardize the whole con <;hooses. Nothing prevents a discus ception behind that article; and every sion. • time there is a census, if we are going to have this kind of thing, there will Shri Raghoramaiah: Even so, my be a total alteration of all constitu point is this. You may discuss it, but encies, so that at any given point of it is not going to alter their recom time, nobody knows who are the peo mendations. Their recommendations ple whom he represents. become absolutely final, because imder section 9 (1) of the Act: “The Commission shall cause each of its final orders to be pub lished in the Gazette of India; and upon such publication, the order shall have the full force of 3TR ^ fq-^K I law and shall not called in ques f tion in any court” So, a mere discussion here is not ^oing to affect the merits of the case. It is sometimes said that this pro vision has been inserted to avoid any ^ lift ^ g political influence in the final deci sions. But this is the Parliament and % 3rnr> ^ ^ it is not conceivable that we will in terfere in every constituency. But when a grave irregularity like this f , 3TTR ^ liappens, and we are satisfied that article 81 of the Constitution is not properly construed or is not properly applied,— and it is only when a ques ^ ^ ^ r tion of principle like that arises— think this House will interfere and 3TFT ^ ^ ^ set right matters. Instead of an ordi nance merely indicating to the Com mission the lines on which they should ^ ^ ’TT proceed, I would in the circumstan 5rr^R»9fT| I ces request the hon. Law Minister to consider the question of amending section 9. so that it may authorise ■ttiis House to scrutinise the final pro posals in respect of all these cases, 7329 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7330 Constitueiicies Constituencies 1^01^0 ^ 1 ^ ] qrro^TTiT^ %^TR# fe n t » ^ ^ g tl*T>ai ^ I %f%»T ^PTT 'sWt ^ t « ^ ^ ^ t % w rf^ ’TT^m "3^ ^ 3Tf^lT =^rf^ % ^ ^ t ^ W ^ ^ ^1% 3ft v3»i^ ^ ^ ^nT5T ^ ^ 3TRrr t i ^rtrhPT ^ ^ ^ qr snr^y ^ r f% amr ^ qr ^ ^ I #* 3TRT f % f ^ tr 1^1% ^>FT f+i|| ^ I ^ 3fn% WT# ^ 6\{^) IT* 2Tf I : ^ 2TT I ^ 3 ^ ^ ^ Trf?TTT ^ I cR^ ^ ^ “Upon the completion of each census, the representation of the T T fr q T ?% ^ t several territorial constituencies f% ^ ^ «rf^ ^ r?t^i in the House of the People shall be readjusted by such au thority. ..” ^ ^TFpft^ ^ «^d “Provided that such adjustment ^JM*? ^ V, 0 0,000^ shall not affect representation in the House of the People until the qr ^ ^ ferr ^ *Tpft »fl% *7^ dissolution of the then existing ^ r = ^ t ^fnrf^di(^1r r House.” • 3? TT ^ a r m it ?fr ^ I % ^ ^ sfTT ^«nar ^ 6 ^ ^ ^ o ITcF^ arnc ^ ^ ^ t ^ I ^Pt>^ ^ ^ 3TTT ^ ^ ^355PT ftnft fwr ^ ^ I ^ f, ^ ^ 3T(q% ^ fv ^'.z f , 3TFr WHf y j^ ^ % ^\ ^ *T§JT5prtt M «RH[% ^r 'tfti 5R> W "*1^ y*T9T ^Ri^fT fsl— 7331 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7332 Constituencies Constituencies Mr. Depniy-Speaker: Hon. Mem* bers "need only wait, and they will be called. " 3 ^ 3J7T fsr^rfHd^lH Shri PmutMse: They also serve *«R ^ ^ ^ ^ who only stand and wait. f » Mr. D^»vty>Speak^: Now. Shri S. V. Ramaswamy. ^ ^4t^R t Shri S. V. Ramaswaflny (Salem): i r m H+<< f ^ r f i ^ The notification in regard to the Mad> ^ ^ T T ^ f Y + j 4 ^ i ^ ^ < d l ^ I «HMH ras State ^ 5T®^ % ^rnr ^ mt# t f»r^ As a matter of factj on 18-3-54, a "?ft ^ ^ ^ ^T5[^ % ^ proposal was made with regard to the -l|, OT TC ^ 3m fk^R WriT ^ I Salem district: A memorandum was submitted, stating certain principles on Several bon. Members rose — which it should be done. I wish in passing this Act of 1952, we had laid Mr. Depiity>Speaker: Shri S, V. down not merely the procedure, but Bamaswamy. the principles on which delimitation sfeould be done. That is very unfor I^iri M. S. Gnmpadaswamy (My- tunate. Evidently this Parliament fiore): What about this side? thought that the statutory body will go on certain principles, certain ration Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I started with al grounds, which will be understood this side first, and ^ ow ed four hon. by rational men. I for one fail to see Members to talk^ Dr. Krishnaswami, what are the principles on which these Dr. Lanka Sundaram, Shri Rama- constituencies have been delimited. Chandra Reddi and Shri VeJayudhan. Whatever calculations I made—I took Ifow I am coming to this side. the population figure^ from here and there and added, deducted and aH Sbri Debeswar Sarmah (Golaghat- that—I could not d^ive any pirindple Jorhat): What about the middle? out of it; I could not make «uiy sensd 187 P.S.D. 7 3 3 3 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7334^ Constituencies Constituencies [Shri S. V. Ramaswamyl out of it. Ultimately the only prin and wholesale change should not be ciple that I could deduce was this. I resorted to. I am not going to repeat had a map of Madras and following the several argument that my hon. these delimited notifications^ I pro friends who have preceded me have ceeded from Madras city itseli What adduced. I shall only reiterate that the Delimitation Commission has done imless there is some certainty about is just a mechanical process—^start the constituencies, we shall not be able from the border of the neighbouring to keep in touch with the electorate. State, start from the northernmost It is not merely territory, Sir. We are border and then work up to the sou dealing with the lives and welfare o f thernmost area upto Cape Comerin. the people; we represent the people,, In delimiting constituencies whether not an area, not a geographical area. there were mountains—^passable or It may be that I am a Member here ^passable—^whether there were rivers now and next time I may not be re over which there were bridges or not, turned, but if there was some conti whether there were roads or no roads, nuity in the constituency, whoever whether the constituencies were in comes here will have a living touch such a manner that voters could with the people. All that you can do exercise their franchise without difiB- is to slice off a portion here or a por culty—all these were not the con- ' tion there in order to make up that siderations before the Commissicm. figure which has been fixed by Parlia All that they have done is that taking ment. That has not been done. In that map ----- Salem we had four single-member constituencies, Hosur, Krishnagiri,. Shri K. K. Basu: A bold state Dharmapuri and Tiruchengode. What ment to make. has now been done is that three con stituencies have been formed giving Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: I am telling four seats though, as I shall presently the truth. I will prove it. This is point out, Salem district as such is only a mechanical process that has entitled to five on a population basis. been done. In order to adjust the There ^was no constituency like Hosur. population figures, they have just It was Krishnagiri before. The added a firka here or subtracted a name itself is changed. What is more firka there without reference to con^ important is that the content has been tiguity or compactness or the conv«a- changed—Hosur, Krishnagiri and ience of the electorate in a parti Harur. Now, the whole of Krishnagiri cular constituency. taluk minus one firka is taken over to North Arcot and tacked on to it. The Sir, in the letter three principles constituency disappears, the talk itself were stated, and subsequently a goes to North Arcot which has come letter was also addressed to the Tamil further south. This constituency lIFad Congress Committee. I . am now extends to 120 miles whereas w e i]Fkentioning this to show that in had a compact area b^ore. It has- amending the Act we should not lengthened out. merely take these principles, but I am also illustmting that these principles Shri Biswas: May I enquire of my have not been accepted. Contrary to hon. friend whether these objections these, the constituencies have been which he is stating to the House— delimited. This memorandum was many of them may be very sound submitted to a Member of this House objections—had been placed before the- who is an associate member of the Delimitation Commission after their Commission and I am surprised to proposals had been published? see that there is no mention about it Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: Yes, Sir.^ at alL The first principle that is These were submitted to an hon. Mem stated is that as far as possible, all ber of this House who was an asso ^nstituaicies should be kept intact ciate member of the Commission. 7335 Delimitation oj 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 733^ Constituencies Constituencies Shri Biswas: Were these objections portion. Other hon. M«nbers have placed before the Delimitation Com submitted their proposals by way of mission? As we know, the Delimitation minutes of dissent which were added Commission are required under the on. But in this particular case what Act to publish their proposals. Objec* Mr. Ramaswamy seems to say is that titms are invited. Those objectioiis even though the hon. Member did not are sutmiitted to them and they con know that it should be put in as a sider those matters. I want to know minute of dissent, the Commission it^ whether the objections he is stating self should have published those alter had been placed before the Delimita native proposals, instead of publish tion Commission in response to tiieir ing only some proposals. public invitation of objections. Shri Sarangadhar Bas (Dhenkanal- Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: These ob West Cuttack): May I make a sub jections had been put before them mission? As I understand it, when the by an associate member of the Com associate members are invited and mission. As such, they were his own they verbally or in writing communi suggestions. cate some alternative proposals, those are the reactions that the Commission Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The hon. Mem takes from the associate members. ber evidently means that at the pre No member of the public is present. liminary sitting of the Commission, Then they come to a decision—whe when they had to formulate certain ther they accept those reactions or proposals and advertise them for pub not—and revise their proposals or lic criticism or suggestion, representa keep the proposals as they were in tions were made by one of the associ the beginning. Thereafter they are ate members and principles were given to the associate members and if enunciated, but not one of them has they have any objection, they give been published or even as an alterna their notes of dissent. After a cer tive taken up. Nothing of the kind tain lapse of time—two or three has been done, let alone the views ex weeks—^their final proposals with the pressed in the earlier stage. minutes of dissent will be published and the public will be invited. Tten Shri K. K. Basu: The minutes of the objections from the public, whe dissent of all the members could be ther they agree with the Commission's published. proposals or with the associate mem bers’ proposals, will be considered and Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: That is ex the report finalised. actly my complaint. The hon. asso ciate member of the Commission Shri Biswas: So far as the proposals submitted his own proposal. It are concerned if there are any dissent may be that he was not aware ing proposals from the associate mem that it should be submitted as bers, they also should be published. a minute of dissent. But it is an alter native pr<^K)sal. The Commission Mr. Depnty-Speaker: His complaint ought to have published it. is that it has not been done. Shri Biswas: There is also a pub Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: Yes. I will lic sitting again at which these objec givfe another example in respect of tions are considered. Tiruchengode, There are two taluks Trichengode and NamakaL Now Nama- Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: True» Sir. kal has been taken away and a portion of another taluk is tacked on to it. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The sugges Take, for instance, Salem. Salem was tion is that the alternative proposals a constituency. Now three more taluks also must have been published. Sug are added so that the constituency gestions were made on principles, not covers almost half of this district—^it upon particular portions only—of ad is 150 miles long and 50 miles broad. ding or subtracting this portion or that One half of this district is constituted 7337 Delimitation of IS MAY 1954 DcliT^itation o f 733^ Constituencies Constituencies [Shri S. V. Ramaswamyl a constituency. I shall stop this 5^1»0d0 people, covering more than poipt here. otne-lhird of the -area of the entire The other point is this. The in constituency which is now sought to tegrity of a district must be main^ be carved out of the district In that tained. A district forms ’ the basis of constituency, the percentage of Sche all administrative actions. If you are duled Castes is only 7.2. Taking the going to distort a district, lalce away over-all aspects of the constituencies, chunks here and chunks there and thesr have arrived at the figure of tack on some taluk with some other 15.47 per cent, for Scheduled Castes for district How can the election madii- that new constituency. Ignoring the nery itself function? How can the fact that in another contiguous taluk, jurisdiction of one Collector run into there is a higher percentage of Sche^ the other? There will be a clash. duled Castes, if the proposed taluks Even for the conduct of the elections, are tacked on, the percentage will be it will be difficult, let alone the fact somewhere near 19. Instead of giving that our feelings are in some sense the constituency to a 14 47 per cent, district-wise. We feel that a district area, they should give it to the 20 per is a unit for all administrative pur cent area. In all these points, I poses, as I said, and it should not be would earnestly urge that we mi^t disturbed. In that context 1 submit know the principle on which the that the whole of the Krishnagiri (dianges are based. I hope the hon. taluk: minus one /irJca has been tack Law Minister will find out what is the ed on to the South Arcot district. Com basis, what is the principle, under ing down to the south, the whole of which they have arrived at these Attur taluk minus one firka has been changes. I may be mistaken, and they tacked on to the South Aroct dis may be working out the constituencies trict. That is a grave iniquity. When in whatever manner they may like. But after allowing a quota of seats to the we are entitled to know the principles. district, there is a surplus of votes, It cannot be their caprice. It cannot that district should be given another be their own whims and fancies. seat when the surplus is more than There must be a rational understand half. For example, my district con ing of the A ct There must be some tains 33.71 lakhs of population. Tak principles which all of us—even the ing it as the basis, it comes to 7,2 men in the street—can understand. for each constituency. So, we are I would request the hon. Minister to entitled to 4.6 seats in the House of let us know the principles by which the People. Of course, I am giving the Delimitation Commission has been the exact number for the purpose of guided. calculation. Not that a gentleman is going to be .6 here and .4 there. If Shri Mattheii (Thiruvellah); I just you accept this principle, tiien, by want to say a few words as to the virtue of this principle, we are entitl reaction of my poor State to the pro ed to five seats. If it is readjusted posals of the Delimitation Commis- on the lines mentioned, we need only ^ n . I (entirely agree with my friend, indent upon one lakh of population from the neighbouring district. Dr. Kjishnaswami, when he stated that it was not a redrawing of the The fourth principle that has been constituencies but a readjustment stated is this. Scheduled Castes con that was expected of the Delimita stituencies should be located in areas tion Commission. What was done in which have a larger i>ercentage of my State is actually a redrawing of Scheduled Caste voters than in the the. constituencies. My friend. Mr. rest Actually, in dumping a double- Velayudhan has dealt with it, but I membe^ constituency on Salem, which can tell you a word about my own it neveir had, what has been done is constituency.. It is known as Thir- ijUiis. Salem taluk itself has got ruvellah constituency. A major part 7339 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1964 Delimitation of 7340 - Constituencies Constituencies of the Thiruvellah taluk been miles. I am talking of the Assem- taK.611 away. The adjoining area oly constituency, not the PazUamen- has also been taken away, to dis tary constituency. But by a xiew tant places. I cattnot understand the road, througn the reserved forests, the logic of it. Even the municipal distance is about 65 miles. . The limits of Kalluppara area which is proposal of some of the associate adjoining the municipal limits of members from the State was to Thiruvellah has been taken away. I divide this area into two. But the cannot understand the purpose behind Commission has made it a joint con this change. stituency. Now,—let me not be mis understood—^you must tiave been My friend, Mr. Raghuramaiah said aware of the agitation of the Tamil- there was »no personal factor in this nad Congress there. If it were two aflair, but I am not quite sure of it, constituencies, it would have been because, from the original proposals, quite possible, (»r probable, that redical changes were made. In fact, Peermade could have a nonrTamil- the representations made by the liad candidate. But by joining the people of the Congress Party or the constituencies into one, the result is Congress Government were ignored. otherwise. Of course, T am sorry Of course I cannot say why it was to tell you this, and it is not a done, but it is quite possible that the pleasant task to tell you this. learned Chairman of the Commission has no kind recollections of my state. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Does the hon. In any case, the impression left in Member say that as much lepresen- my mind is that it has been very tation to the people must be given, unfair to the Congress side. as possible, and one State should not be made to lose and another State Shri Saranga^ar Das: May I know take the advantage? if the hon. Member Tneans that the Congress Party was consulted by Shri Matthen: That is my point. the Commission, or, without their The worst part of it is. even though invitation the Congress Party gave the provisional proposal was to make some proposals before the Commis it two, it was rumoured, before the sion? Commission actually came to Tra- vancore-Cochin, that it wiU be a Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Everybody is double-member constituency. It was entitled to give* >a proposal, done so. I do not know whether ^hri Matihen: The Congress Gov any other factor was involved in it. ernment hs^d-giveft some proposals But I am telling you the facts. which were absolutely ignored. t Shri A. M. Thomas: Was there any Shri Biswas: That shows the inr proposal by any associate membe’’ to dependence of the Commission. have them combined into i^ne con Shri Matthen: Yes; that shows stituency? their independence. 'Hiey are good Shri Matthen: 1 am not aware of boys. That is exactly my complaint.. any ^-sachproposal. In fact, the as That is why I said I cannot agree sociate members wanted to make with Mr. Raghuramaiah that there it into two constituencies, and I is no personal. : .0 factor !n this. think it ^as made a double-consti tuency. But it was rurrourei. ev^n Let me take one instance, name before the Commission visited Tra- ly, the Divicolam-Peermade consti vancore-Cochin, that it was going to tuency. T*hat is our Plantjrtlon area be made a double-constituency. where tea is grown. Iii fact, the dis- tahce by ^ good‘^oad'belw^eii Shri Velayndhan: Previqiis^ also^ eorlaift %id Peermade fel>out 1=05 It ^as a dout^e-cbnstituenby. 7341 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 D elimitation of 734a . Constituencies Constituencies WuA Mattheit: Yes, provisionally, it was so. I already stated that the b e subject to such modifications as distance by road between the two Parliament may make on a motion places is about 160 miles. I entire made within 20 days? ly agree that something ought to be Can we not have it back? done to do some justice, at least re garding my State. Shri Biswas: May I remind my hon. friend that that was debated at Shri Pmmoese: Sir, I have not considerable length when this BiU much to say except to make a few became law and it was purposely, general observations. When Mr. and after deliberation, decided that Bamaswamy speaks from there or we shall scrap the old , procedure Mr. Matthen speaks from here, much which had led to a lot of gerryman of what is said is not understood by dering? many. I could understand Mr. Mat- then speaking about Deviculam and Shii Velayudhan: There was no Peermade but when Mr. Ramaswamy gerrymandering then. makes out a case for placing this area there or that area here, it makes no Shri Pimnoose: I do not question meaning to me. I do not know the the sagacity of Parliament. We know areas and such discussions on the is the position of the Government. sue in the House will not be very We know we have party govern much profitable. I do not say that ments and we know what things the Commission has not committed happen in Parliament. I am quite any mistakes at aU. It is quite pos sure that all the decisions will go in sible, when a Commission has to go favour of a particular party. into such details and has to do such Shri VelayucBian: Is he prepared a big job, and naturally when va to leave everjrthing to the Commis rious interests are concerned, it might sion without bringing anything to commit a few mistakes. The only Parliament? individual that gets up has some sort , . ^ of criticism against the method of their new formation. Shri Biswas: Universal dissatis ^ faction is felt only after so many months have passed and after the De limitation Commission has completed its labours as regards, I believe, 10 ^ ^ fftf feiT wr 3}^ 5uch States. After that two elections i3^r% «•<< f^T^f have been held in Travancore-Co- chin and PEPSU. ^nrr ^ ^iri A. M. Thomas: No, no. Only one. Shri Raghavachari: This is the only ^ fST feqr, JlR'jU'tWl «IT. I occasion when the matter comes be fore the Parliament, for us to voice ^ ^ ^ the protest against the irregular way f f W % 3I?5I in which tiie matter is being con ducted. In the papers, in the press, arie^^^PT 3 fk ?rn f^ in almost every district and provin ^ I cial papers these things have already been expressed. It is not correct to TT^ srRwt" ^ say that these things have not been % qr ?fr ^ ^ voiced at all. This is the only oc- •casion when the Law Minister’s and 3rtr ^ 3TT^ ^ the Commissioner’s attention can be ^ ^ f%®rr tirawn to the -necessity of foUowin* certain well-laid principles for re ^ ^ % 3 p ^ 2TfT srr^ adjustment and that readjustment does f e - ^ t ’ 3flT ^ ^ 3T T ^ not mean creating a new constitu- ^TT ^>T I ^ ^ ^ -ency altogether. Mr. I> 3ftr ^ ^ ft> ^ ^ %?TT f I 3rrr^ ^"TOr ^ srrar ?3TT t aflT OT#' ^ ^ ^ f ftr % r«r«Ric!{K % ^ ^ ft^ t ^ ^ ^ ^ t ^Tft ^ % sft’f l w ^ t, ^ ^ >n€f % sftT t^ ^ ^ ^ qr ft? ^ ^ tr sfrfhr^ iT^ r^r?»r^d^>T ^ ^ t i 1:^0 artrtnTo qtsro % ^ Tc 5^ w ;^ Rifeff irm t ^ % ^ ferr nm, % «W f % MM>^^ ^ fe'TT w , ^ ^ 3rmr ft? ^ ftf^irr t ^ ^ ^ 3pT^ j^Rtt ^ ihrT^ % 'Tra* ^srrar f «'i4^ -qrnr srtI «ft, ^ ^ ^ t ^ gTOf crrft? w ^ v4hnr q am% ^ 5Rn^ % Tra ^ TT ^ ^ ^ 1 1 ^ #■ ^ f f t r % 3?TT ^ 5sft, TO# ^nrarr | afir f ft? i^fT |f f \ ^ arrr «ftfT^ W ^^TPTT ’TT ft> r< Shri Velayudhaii: In the course of Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That is true. your clarification, you said that the But I can sit here only when ^ere is members of the Commission are high a quorum. dignitaries. I would very humbly suggest that there are no high digni taries in India. Even the President Biswas: Quite so. but I cannot cannot be called a high dignitary. undertake to provide a quorum, {Interruptions). Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Therefore. I Sardar A. S. Saigal: There are. shall call upon the hon. Minister to S£iri C. R Natasimhaa: High autho reply now. But my difficulty is this. rities. I have no objection to give an oppor tunity to the hon. Minister to Shri Velayudhan: We are not in an reply tomorrow. But since tomorrow empire. morning is intended for the Salaries Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Hon. Mem and Allowances of Members of Par ber* may leave it at that. liament Bill, this can come up only in the afternoon. I find that the Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy; I now hon. Minister of Parliamentary come to my next point. I do not Affairs is just here. He can settle want to go into this point any fur the issue. * ther. My next point is this. The Commission said at one stage that if An Hon. Member: The written there is unanimity on any particular reply may be circulated. (Intemtp- constituency* if the public and the tions) associate members are all agreed on any particular proposal for de Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I shall now limitation. then they would adopt call upon the hon. Minister to reply, that proposal. and he can say what he wants. If he says anything regarding adjourn Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Let me ment, I shall consider. If he wants clarify the position. Am I to under to reply now, he can r^ly, or if he stand that the hon. Minister does not wants adjournment, we shall have to intend to intervene today? consider it, (Interruptions) Shri Biswas: On this? I am not in Shri Sarangadhar Das: Two a position to reply today. minutes for me. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I have heard it said by the hon. Minister of Pi:r- Shri Damodara Menen (Kozhi Uamentary Affairs several times, that kode) rose— 187 P.S.D. 7365 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of •7^66 Constituencies Constituencies Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: There are only two alternatives. Either out of these hours which will be ?T|)f t I left for non-official .business, half an hour or 15 minuteg might be taken Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. for the hon. Law Minister to reply, Shri Biswas: At a much earlier or if that is not agreeable to the stage in the debate, I had asked for majority of the Members of this time, if I were to make a reply to all House, the next alternative will be the various points which have been ihat we have to sit on a day in the raised tin the floor of the House. afternoon before the 17th and finish it. In that case, we might sit in the So if I have to reply now. it v/iil be afternoon for half an hour or so and in very general terms. we shall try to have the quorum. B(Ir. Deputy-Speaker; Let the hon. Shri Radhelal Vyas: There is one Minister not be under the impression more alternative. We may do away that I am not going to allow time. I with the question hour one day. am prepared and the House is also willing to hear him by way of reply. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: l am not But tomorrow there is the Salaries going to do that. Bill—it has to be passed. The other Shri L. N. Misfiira (Darbhanga people wanted to have this discussion cum Bhagalpur): We must have the concluded before the 17th. So let question hour. there be no misunderstanding about this matter. Unless the Government Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Tomorrow are willing to allot or ask for. a afternoon we may sit at 4 p.m. particular day or time when they Shri Satya Naryan Sinha: May I will be ready with quorum, I am not suggest that instead of 4 p.m. it be prepared to adjourn this to any other 5 p.m.? If hon. Members are willing, day. Now there is time and the hon. they might come for half an hour and Minister can reply. But if he wants then go. to do it tomorrow afternoon, as he has suggested to me, the responsi Mr. Deputy-Speaker; How long bility for getting the quorum is does the Minister expect to take to entirely upon him and the Crovern- morrow? ment. (Interruptions) Shri Biswas: About half an hour or The Minister of Parliamentary three quarters of an hour. Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan Sinha): The House is aware that tomorrow is Mr. Deputy-Speaker: At the most a half-day, it being a non-official day one hour. Regarding the Hindu for Resolutions. So we have got l i Marriage and Divorce Bill. I will hours for official business. Tomorrow call upon the hon. Minister at 12.45 the Salaries Bill is going to be consi to reply. dered by the House; it is more or less a non-official Bill. According to The Minister Commerce and the decision of the Business Advisory Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): Committee two hours were allotted to There is one other item before us—a \{ and the House also stands com formal item. mitted to it. We can just finish the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Very well. officialBill and then take this VP- But the difficulty.... Shri M S. Gurupadaswamy: The Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Law Commission framed the proposals Mirtistet says It will u> to the alter- and placed those proposals before us. noon. ‘ We discussed those proposals and 736? Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation of 7368 Constituencies Constituencies published those proposals for elicit Act. A Parliamentary Committee ing public opinion. It was intended consisting of all the party leaders that public opinion should be invited may be constituted for this purpose on those proposals, and we were also and the whole matter should be dis informed. But this is what happen cussed by them de novo. The final ed. In cases where there was absolute orders passed by the Commission unanimity among the public and should be entirely reviewed by the among the associate members and Parliamentary Commission. I again even after the Commission had emphasise that a Parliamentary Com agreed before Ug that they had ro mission should be established and an objection and they completely agreed amendment should be moved for this with the associate members and the purpose. Unless this is done, I think public, they came back to Delhi and we cannot accept the proposals of the issued the final order of delimitation, Delimitation Commission. as the changing all these things. So I want orders issued .by them are not fair to know for what purpose puLlic and impartial. I say that ♦he De opinion was taken. limitation Commission have n 'l done their work properly and fairly. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Do they not keep minutes of the proceedings of Shri Guipati Ram rose — the meetings? Mr. Depaty-Speaken How c.in the Sbri M. S. Gunipadaswamy: There hon. Member claim a right? If I do are minutes. There is mention that not call him» he cannot stand up and there was unanimity of opinion both speak. Again and again. I have been among the public, and among the noticing this. It is only iust now that associate members about certain pro he handed over a slip. Am I to posals regarding constituencies. Still, follow the rules or merely be guided at the time of passing the final by the hon. Member, merely bscause orders, they have changed and dis he talks loud? figured the constituencies. I wrote a letter to them asking them why tJiey Shri Damodara Menon: The pur have done so in one particular case pose of the debate, as I understand, and why they have done such and is to invite the attention of the De such a thing in another particular limitation Commission to some of the case. Then they replied: “We do not suggestions and views of the Mem want to assign reasons. The Com bers regarding the way in which they mission has thought it fit to .-hange.’" are to do their work or on the work That is the reason they have Riven to that has been done so far, and also me. Then, for what purpose was to invite the attention of the Law the public called lor? For what Minister to the necessity of bringing purpose were the associate mem these matters before the attention of bers invited? What was the use the Commission. of it? The whole thing became farcical. The Commission acted in a Regarding the delimitation orders fashion which created in our mind which have been finalised, probably the impression that it has not acted the only remedy is by an amendment democratically, responsibly and to of the Act or by a fresh BiU to the satisfaction of aU the associate change them. But my proposition is members and to the satisfaction of this. Regarding those delimitation the public. So, finally, I say that the proposals which are tentative, those final orders which they have passed which have already been placed in respect of certain States should be before the public. I have to suggest . reopened again. The whole matter that the hon. Minister must bring should be reopened and it should be this matter before the Commission discussed once again. For this pur that more time must be given to us. pose. we want the amendment of this As has been said now, 17th May is 7369 Delimitation of 13 MAY 1954 Delimitation oi W io Constituencies Constituencies [Shri Damodara Menon] the last date. Most of the Members appear as geographically contiguous of Parliament are here. It may rot areas but they are divided by im be possible for us to go to Madras passable mountains and if one is to before the 17th and place before the reach Wyanad from Nadapuram c>ne Commission our views, because, this will have to go to Calicut or to Telli- is a matter in which not only our cherry and then go by another route. objections must be submitted to the Actually, there is no geographical Commission but we must also submit contiguity. before them positive alternate pro posals. All that requires time, and I wish to bring to the notice of the Bay suggestion, therefore, is that the Commission another matter. A refer Minister must see that the Commis ence was made by Shri Velayudhan sion extends the time for inviting to that. Previously, in Malabar one public opinion in this matter. seat was allotted to the scheduled It has been already pointed out castes. Now, that has been taken that the proposal regarding Madras away. The number of seats in the State requires a lot of amendments. Malabsr district has been raised frcm I come from Malabar. In that six to seven. In spite of that, the district, I say that the Commission’s seat for the Scheduled Castes has proposals, the tentative proposals, been taken away; that is injustice done to them You will find in the require a lot of amendments. They have been done in a haphazard Act that in reserving a seat, it has manner. Some constituencies have been specifically stated that care been totally mutilated. I come from should bfc taken to distribute the the Kozhikoda constituency. It has reserved seats in different areas of the State. The Malabar coast is a been mutilated beyond recognition. More than half of that constituency particular linguistic area. When you are taking away a seat reserved for has been added to the Ernad t.-iluk Harijans in that State, you are really and another portion has been added doing something which is unjustifi to another taluk, with the result that able. I understand that this has tlxe present constituency has ceased been given to Ramnad. When the to exist. In doing so, the Commission number of seats has been raised, it has ^ot given proper consideration to such matters as geographical conti- was not because there has been an increase in the number of the other .guity and all those factors which are rommunities alone .but also of Hari mentioned in the Act itself. Section jans. It is preposterous that this 8Ce) of the Ddimitation Act says; has been done. Therefore, especial *‘(e) all constituencies shall, as ly regarding Malabar the tentative far as practicable, consist of proposals of the Commission require geographically compact areas, a lot of amendment. I hope that the and in delimiting them, regard Minister will see his way to impress shall toe had to physical features, upon the Commission that they must existing boundaries of adminis give more time and uroTjer facilities trative units, facilities of com to Members of Parliament to place munication and public conveni- their views before the Commission. enpe:” I want to say one word more. In 1 want to bring one instance to the these matters. I agree with the other notice of the hon. Minister. Wyanad Members also that this Parliament is a hilly taluk and to that Nada- a supreme body and must have a puram, an area in the Kurumbarnad final voice. But, I also feel that we taluk is added. If we look at the should not unnecessarily interfere with ^ p of Malabar, proba^ , they will the Commission. The Commission is Hindu Marriage and 737 7371 Coffee Market Expansion 13 MAY 1954 (Amendment) Bill, 1952 Divorce Bill an independent body set up by Par The Minister of Commerce (Shri liament and in doing their work, we Karmarkar); Y^s; it is annexed. must have some faith in the way Mr. Deputy-Speaker: T'he question they carry on the work. If the Com mission is not doing its work proper- IV and if there are irregularities, of “That leave be granted to course. w»-: can ventilate those griev withdraw tne Bill further to ances and sl^ that they work proper amend the Coffee Market Expan ly. For that the proper forum is sion Act, 1942.” the Parliament. I hone the hon. The motion was adopted. Minister will take note of the views expressed here and see that the Com mission adapts itse'f to the sugges tions made on the flo.'r of the House. COFFEL MARKET EXPANSION (A?/[ENDMENT) BILL Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Minister will reply tomorrow evening The Minister of Commerce and In at five o’clock so far as this matter is dustry (SCiri T. T. Krishnamachari>: concerned. I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the Coffee Market Expansaon Act, 1942. COFFEE MARKET EXPANSION fAMENDMENT) BILL. 1952 Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question Mr. Deputy-Speaker; The House will now take up legislative business. “ That leave be granted to In The Minister of Commerce and In troduce a Bill further to amend dustry (Shri T. T. KrishnamacharD: the Coffee Market Expansion I beg for leave to withdraw the Bill Act, 1942.” further to amend the Coffee i\?arket The motion was adopted. Expansion Act. 1942. The reason is merely this. The Bill SQri T. T. Krlshnamachari: I intro has been before the House for more duce* the Bill than a year and a half. Certain changes were necessary. But, most of HINDU MARRIAGE AND DIVORCE these changes could be made later BILL—Contd. in the Select Committee but there will be a certain amount Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The House of procedural difficulty with re will now proceed with the further gard to one particular change, consideration of the motion moved by namely, we have suggested that Shri Biswas on the 10th May, 1954, the cess that should be levied in respect of the Hindu Marriage and by the Coffee Board should be raised Divorce Bill. and for this we have to get the sanc tion of the President. So, I have Shri Tek Chand (Ambala-Simla): obtained the sanction of the Presi May I make a subniission? I had not dent and, if the House wiU permit quite concluded niy submissions me to withdraw the Bill, I shall be yesterday, and if I were to be given moving another Bill in which we are a few minutes more I will feel grate putting in this provision amongst ful that I may at least be able to others for levying a higher rate of finish my unfinished say. cess for the necessary sanction has Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Yesterday, it been obtained. was said definitely that I will call Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Is it annex upon the Law Minister, that all dis- ed? ?ussion regarding this Bill was over *totroduced with the recommenda tions of the President. 13 MAY 1954 and Divorce Bill 7374 7373 Hindu Marriage [Mr. Deputy-Speaker] except for the reply of the hon. Special Marriage Bill. The answer Minister. I do not intend going back is very simple. The Special Mar on what I said. riage Bill applies to all. It is on an allrlndia basis. This is a BiU for The Minister of Law and Minority Hindus. It is quite true that Hindus Affairs (Shri Biswas); I shall be very will be able to marry under the Spe brief in my reply. There is only cial Marriage Bill when it becomes hall an hour left. There are only law. just a few general points which I Shri Tek Chand: Get their mar shall advert to. riages registered. I believe I have reason to be satis Sbri C. D. Pande (Naini Tal Distt. fied with the reception which the cum Almora Distt.—South West cum Bill has met with in this House. Bareilly Distt.—North); A common law There has been, first of all, a comr would have been better. plaint of delay in bringing this mea Shri Biswas: There is nothing to sure before Parliament. Well. Sn-,. prevent any two Hindus marrying I do not know if my lady under the ordinary law. This Bill who have made this complaint sho^d seeks to amend the ordinary law so labour this point. It is like floggmg; as to make certain portions of it a dead horse. We have now got a compulsory. In other respects this horse which is very much aUve and Hindu Marriage and Divorce Bill is kicking. Apply your whip so that optional. I shall come to that in de the horse may be stirred into activi tail presently. But. as regards mono ty, but without giving any kicks. The gamy, if this Bill becomes law, every Bill is going to the Joint Select Corn- Hindu marriage must be a mono mittee. Try to improve the BiU m gamous marriage. In order mainly every possible way, so that it will to secure that object, it is necessary meet the desires and expectations to have a separate Bill. For that of hon. Members here. purpose I say a separate Bill is ab solutely essential, and the mere fact After dealing with this preliminary that there is another Bill which per objection, I go to the other points mits marriage between two Hindus which were made. There was fot^ - and will secure monogamy, is not right opposition to the Bill, I be enough. We want to make monogamy lieve, only from two hon. Members. compulsory as a rule of law for all One was from the Jan Sangh repre Hindu marriages. That is the ob sentative, Shri U. M. Trivedi. And ject which I am explaining. the other was from Shri Tek Chand. If I may refer, Sir, to your attitude Shri Nand Lai Sliarma (Sikar): I will not say it was half-hearted Monogamy means one at a time? opposition, I will say it was half and Shri Biswas: Then comes the op l^alf_probably a little less than that. position which was voiced by my Because, you supported monogamy friend Sardar Hukam Singh. He whole-heartedly. As regards divorce, said that this BiU was entirely diffe you only wanted to suspend it for rent from the Bill which was Includr five years. That was not whol^ ed in the Hindu Code. That was hearted opposition. So I think it compulsory, whereas this is permis- was less than fifty per cent. Rive and that is why opposition ha*^ now subsided. If I may say so with tiet me come to the opposition like respect, my hon. friend is mistaken. that which came from my hon. He need only refer to...... friend Shri Pande. The question Sardar Hnkam Singh (Kapurthala- w a s asked as to why this Bill was brought forward when there was a Bhatinda): I said, that I welcomed it. Hindu Marriagi 13 MAY 1954 artd Divorce B.ll 7376 m s Shri Biswas: As a matter of fact —I will not make the vain attempt and try to reconcile the irreconcila you were trying to belittle tlie fact to which I drew attention. Although ble. They have their eyes and ears open, but if they choose to keep there was so much opposition at that stage, there is not much them closed I cannot help it. They will refuse to take note of the chang opposition at this stage. That ing conditions; they will live in the is the point I am explain dead past and they will not open ing. He said that that was the windows of their minds just to compulsory and, therefore, there was receive new light which is there. so much opposition. If you now bring forward a compulsory measure, Sir, where there is a wrong there do you think that there will be must be a remedy. This may not similar opposition? This BiU is not oe possible in every case, but where different from the other. The word it is possible, it must be allowed. ‘may’ is no doubt used in clause 5. If there are cases in which people Clause 5 reads: feel after marriage that they are not “A marriage may be solemniz happy and their lives will be doom ed between any two Hindus, if ed if they live together, it will not the following conditions are oe right to force them to iive together. If there are such cases, it is iust fulfilled.. as well that the law should provide The word ‘may* does not mean that for a remedy. The cry has been it is open to two Hindus to disregard raised that this will mean disruption these conditions when they marry. of Hindu society. Sir, I have not In the other Bill theie was provi such a poor idea of Hindus*, liindu sion for sacramental marriage and society or Hindu religion. Hindus, also for civil marriage, both embodied Hindu society and Hindu religion in the same code. That was the idea have withstood the shock of centu and therefore it was said that a ries’. ' marriage may o. celebrated by Hindus either according to civil mar Shri Nand Lai Sharma: Not on riage procedure or according to the account of you or these ideas. sacramental procedure. Therefore it Shri Biswas: And, neither my was different in form only, otherwise friend Mr. Nand Lai Sharma, nor it was just the same so far as the Mr. Trivedi could weaken the vita ordinary law of Hindu marriage is lity of Hindu society. concerned. You will compare the provisions of the one with those of You, Sir, if I may say so with res the other, and you wlU find that they pect,...... are just the same. Therefore, this Shri R. K. Chaudhuri (Gauhati): Bill retains its old character, and On a point of information, would still the fact remains that there has the hon. Minister tell us that the not been so much opposition. question of divorce should always I have t r i e d to distinguish the accompany the monogamy idea? d i f f e r e n t kinds of opposition. With Cannot you have monogamy with regard to the first c a t e g o r y ,— those out divorce? who were opposed to this on princi ple, Members like Mr. Trivedi, my Shri Biswas: I know that the Catho lics, for instance, have monogamy, they friend over there representing the Ram Rajya Parishad and Mr. Tek have no divorce. I am not sug gesting that you cannot have mono Chand...... gamy without divorce. Afi an ab Shri Tek Cliand: Representing stract proposition, it may be possible. sanity. Look at the problem from the prac tical point of view. You are intro Shri Biswas:...of which he has the ducing monogamy for the first time monopoly, and I wish him all luck. 7377 Hindu Marriage MAV 1954 and Divorce Bill 7378 [Shri Biswas] amongst the Hindus. If that is so, we need not be afraid that divorce it is only right and proper that you will be resorted to in a very large should also concede the right of Vneasure. Our ladies are educated divorce. now. We are having a larger spread of education among both men and You, Sir, did not say that divorce, women. should not be allowed at any stage. For five years:—that is what you said. Dr. Suesh Chandra (Aui-an?a- bad): What is the percentage of edu Shri R. K. Chaudhuri: Let us have cation? five years, Shri Biswas: Higher than it was Shri Biswas: Therefore, it wiU not before, at any time in India’s his do to say that there must not be tory. We want that education divorce at all. After all, do not should be as widespread as possible. forget that merely because the right Everything cannot be achieved over of divorce is recognised in this law, night. We have to wait. We are on every wife or every husband must the march. Therefore, I say that perforce go to the divorce court. when our people are getting edu We do not want that. We want to cated, they will see for themselves prevent it. It is because we want what has been the experience of to prevent it that we are giving this other countries where divorce has right to them. It is common human been in force for centuries. Look experience that if you say to child at the West; look at America; look ren, you will not have it, at once at Europe. Married life has not been they will clamour for it. Even happy in spite of divorce. They adults are not free from this weak will see for themselves what are the ness. If you give them this right, in things which, in spite of divorce, the first flush, there may be a num have not made for happy married ber of applications for divorce. Ul^ life in those countries. timately, when they know that they Shri Tek Chand: D?/orces have have got the right, they will them made marriages unhappy there. selves be loth to exercise that right. That is the experience in other countries. There is no reason why Shjri Biswas: Therefore I say that this should not happen also with the our men and women will take a Hindus. From the granting of the lesson from those countries and desist right of divorce, it does not fol from going to the divorce courts if low that at once you rush to the they can help it. divorce court. So far as women are Shri Lokenatb Mishra (Puri): concerned, it is not likely that they Are you then going to teach them a would take such a step. After all, lesson? many of my hon. friends have sug gested that unless women are able iKiri Biswas: I want to give them a to stand upon their own legs, unle^ right. I do not want to deny even they are economically independent, in a single case a right which they they will not sacrifice their own in want. terests by forsaking their husbands. 1 P.M. I am quite free to admit that if a woman has some other man in view Shri Nand Lai Sfaarma: The right and there is a difference between her to fall into a pit. and her husband, she will go to the divorce court just to get rid of the hus Shri Biswas: Do you think that band. That is a different matter, the divorce courts would be flooded otherwise, if we assume that pe^rso^ with applications if there is this wiii behave l i k e normal human beings, right and that our ladies would. 7379 Hindu Marriage 13 MAY 1954 and Divorce Bill 7380 with eyes open, jump from the fry of Hindu law, Hindu religion and ing pan into the fire? It will not be Hindu morality. Everyone knows» so. even a tyro who has read even a single page of Hindu law knows, Shri Lokenath Mishia: On a point that what is known as Hindu law of information. was a mixture of law, morality and Mr. Depaty-Speaker. The hon. •religion. So, merely because in Minister does not give way. some text Manu says you must marry a girl having these qualifications, it Slui Biswas: There are only fifteen is a great mistake to pour ridicule minutes more, and if I am interru];>t- on that and so on. ed... My friend Shri Tek Chand says: Mr. Depaty>Speaker: Let him go “If you have monogamy, if you have on iminterrupted. this divorce, an army of unwanted men, an army of unwanted women, Shri Biswas: I say we do not know an army of unwanted children would if our ancient law-givers came back come into existence.” Have we not to life today, whether or not they got the unwanted list even today? would themselves have insisted on Have we not got any number of un divorce as a rule of law. As a wanted men, any nimiber of unwant matter of fact, what was the state of ed women, any number of unwanted things in those days? We know how children? We want to give them a strict the texts are. the rules of legal status. If there are unwanted morality, the rules of chastity, of men. unwanted women and unwant paternity, maternity and so__on. And ed children, let them be persons in spite of that we do find that with a legal status. That Is the different kinds of sonship had been object. recognized, different kind of marri ages had been recognized. What for? Shri R. K. C9iandhari: I do not Because our shastra-^vers wanted to want to interrupt the hon. Minister, keep pace with the changing condi but on a point of information, who tions. If they found that irregular will take charge of the divorced men, relations were established between young and old? two persons of opposite sexes, for the sake of the children or whatever Shri Biswas: The divorced woman it was. they said: “Very weU, let wiU decide that for herself. As a this be marriage. Let them not roam matter of fact, if she has been guilty about in society as if they were un of conduct wMch will justify a touchables.” They recognized those divorce, that woman will have to marriages as legal marriages. Though suffer for it. There is no question of they are not approvted marriages— anybody taking over charge. disapproved marriages—^but stiU they Shri R. K. Chaudhuri: I am speak are marriages all the same. That is ing about the men. (Interruption) the spirit in which our law-givers laid down these rules. Mr. Depnty.Speak<^: If hon. Mem bers will keep a little patience and My hon. friend Mr. Nayar was there is not so much noise, the hon. waxing eloquent. He thinks that if Minister need not be strained to this he made a tirade against our an extent to speak. cient law-givers, that was the highest form of patriotism he could display. Shri Biswas: After all, what is the A little knowledge is a dangerous object of marriage?—^there should be thing—and he was quoting texts not peace and harmony in the family. understanding what those texts What will make for peace and har meant. (Interruption) The texts mony is not quarrel, friction and all were a part of an integrated system sorts of things like that. On the 187 P.S.D. and Divorce Bill 7381 Hindu Marriage 13 MAY 1954 7383 LShri Biswas] Government or to the notice of the other hand, if you say, separate public. Then, the public take up under proper conditions, that will the matter, and the result is law. make for greater peace, greater hap There is nothing wrong in it. It is piness in the house, in the home. The absolutely wrong to suggest that un question is this. You grant divorce. less there is a universal demand, legis Much depends upon the conditions lation should not be introduced. I on which divorce is to be allowed. am quite willing to admit that in In modem Russia, the law of divorce order that social legislation may suc is this. Formerly, they said, divorce ceed, you have got to carry the com by consent will be there. You have munity with you, and carry the coun to apply for a certificate of separar try with you. That condition must tion, and you have to go and state be there. Well, try it, and see. I that fact. Now, of course, they have believe, in this matter, judging from abolished that and substituted a recent reactions, we shall be able different system, and that system is to carry the people at large with us. this. You may divorce and separate Let us try; if we fail, this law auto by consent, but then you have got matically becomes a dead letter, and to go to, a court. You need not speci you need not worry about it. So, fy any grounds in your petition; you give the law a dog’s chance, I say, merely state that you want to sepa —to put the matter in the lowest pos rate, and you place all the facts be sible form. Give it a chance, and fore the court, and leave it to the if there are any improvements to be court to decide whether there should effected, the Joint Select Committee be a divorce or not. In coming to is there, and I shall leave the matter a decision, the court will consider entirely free to the members of the what provision has been made, and Joint Select Committee. They can -whether adequate provision has been shape this legislation in any way they made or not, for the children. So, like I did the same thing in con you see that even in Soviet Russia, nection with the Special Marriage they have adapted .their laws accord Bill, I did the same on the floor ing to changing conditions and needs. of the other House also, and I gave Why should we not do the same? them free votes, because I thought "We have had numerous complaints. this was social legislation. They Also, we have had a very wide de did pass certain amendments, which mand for divorce, it may be, from I did not like, and about which I a certain section of the community. was not happy. I stated that open I do not, for one moment, want to ly on the floor of the House. and say tiiat there is a universal pubUc incidentally I may say, that although demand. I do not go into the ques I gave them free vote, because I also tion whether this was an issue in had the temerity to state my personal the election manifesto of the Con views, which were against the amend gress. Some say, it was in the mani ments which were moved, I was slan festo, and some say, it was not. dered. It is difficult to please all, or Leaving that aside, for that does not to please any on all matters. matter now, I would like to say there has been a demand, and we must Mr. Depaty-Speailcen The hon. Min not forget the fact that the urge for ister has yet a chance. reform in social matters does not always come from the whole comr ShTl Heda (Nizamabad); Moreover, munity. It is not always mass ini he is representing the Government, tiative which leads to legislation of and he is not simply a person. (In this kind. It is only the enlightened terruptions) «ecti was there in the Bill as it emerged the British came. The British came irom the Select Committee. But was and—I shall assume—for good pur I Aot entitled to tell the House, look poses they said: ‘We do not know -here, 1 stand by this, but this is my about this. It is much better to personal view? If anyone is at leave the Hindus and the Muslims tracted to my personal view, if any to be governed by their own personr body has so much respect for me, al law’. That gave a certain amount which I very much doubt, why should of rigidity and that really stereotyp I object to that? (Interruptions) ed the Hindu law for these two cen turies. It stood in the form in which Dr. Bam Sobhag Sinsfa (Shahabad it was when the British came. Even South): We have the highest regard so, owing to changing conditions, the ior you. courts could not resist, I do not say Shri Biswas: Mffl-ely on the theory the temptation, but the necessity, of indissolubility of marriage under of having to make some provision for the Hindu Law. why should we deny these changing conditions That is the relief to those who ask for re why the Privy Council decisions lief, and who deserve relief? have made an inroad into the mitak- shara joint family in respect of many Sir, there is just one fact which I matters. I say those days are gone; -wish to refer to. In the ancient days, the dark days of subjection are there was no Inw particularly in the gone. We are a free people, we can modern or Austinian sense of the now shape the law as we please. term. The texts were there, the Let us go back to the old times, let -shastras were there. They said: us lay down certain principles of conduct and leave it to them as free and independent sons and daughters of India, to follow the advice which ^ arrcJTT: I we give. That is the best thing. What are the sources of law? Let us try that. I in fact heard a :Shruti is revelation. Then Smriti— suggestion that we should go back xevelation reduced to writing. Then to those days, scrap all thesp laws there is Sadachar—^look at their and leave it to our people in their vision, their foresight. In spite of own wisdom to follow the advice or the fact that divine t^ ts were there, injunctions which were laid down they said that aUnwance must also for us by our elders. That means we be made for actual customs which must have some faith, some re^>ect must not be ignored. They also say: for our elders^ but in schools and col leges, nowadajrs they call their fathers I old fools—a very wise thing!—not knowing that their sons will call them even greater foDls! What appeals to you should be followed. If your conscience teUs So we have to lay down something, you that that is the right course, you unless we have come to that millenium are free to follow that course of about which everybody speaks. The action. And mind you, these injunc reason is this. We have got to make tions, all these diet? were laid down provision for abnormal cases. If men not as a compulsory thing. They and women behave like normal beings, were there and they became a part you do not require law. You do not of the law in the modern sense be require the Indian Penal Code if peo cause of the willinj? allegiance of ple do not commit offences. Because millions of Hindus to these texts of these abnormal cases, these aber which were not laid down as compul rations from the normal standards, sory texts. So that Hindu law was the law has got to step in. So also in following this course of development the case of marriage, because if there throughout its history ^cept when are cases of aberration, they have got 7385 Hindu Marriage 13 MAY 1954 and Divorce Bill 738& [Shri Biswas] to be provided for. So long as law should be equal distribution of pro has got to find a place in our national perty between the partners. That is economy, that has got to be provided. in my mind. I have been thinking Just one minute more about econo about it mic independence. Mr. Depaty-^aker: I wiU place Shri C. D. Pande; He may continue this motion before the House for its tomorrow. acceptance or rejection. The question Shri Biswas; It is about economic “That this House concurs in independence. I will finish now. So the recommendation of the Coun tar as Government are concerned, cil of States that the House de economic independence not merely for join in the Joint Committee of the men but also for women is their ob Houses on the Bill to amend and jective. There is no doubt about it. codify the law relating to mar So far as women are concerned, most riage and divorce among Hindus of the speakers who have sooken and resolves that the following about it think that economic indepen members of the House of the peo dence is obtained if the daughter ple be nominated to serve on the shares in the family inheritance. said Joint Committee, namely— That will not do. One of the Shri N. Keshavaiengar, Shri Gur- speakers pointed out that in mukh Singh Musafir, Shri Ranbir connection with marriage, the econo Singh Chaudhuri, Shri S. V. Rama- mic independence which is desired is swamy, Shri Narendra P. Nath- this: the wife must come to share wani, Shri Jayantrao Ganpat Nat* with the husband the husband’s pro awadkar, Shri Fulsinhji B. Dabhi. perty. I would also say that the hus Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha. band should share the property of the Pandit Dwarka Nath Tiwary, wife. Both should share each others Shrimati Anasuyabai Kale, Shri * property. It is no use saying that H. C. Heda, Sardar Amar Singh women are the slaves of men in some Saigal, Shri Suriya Prashad. places and in other places men are Shrimati Ila Palchoudhuri, Shri the slaves of women. These exag Nibaran Chandra Laskar, Shri T. gerated statements carry us nowhere. Sanganna, Pandit Sheo Narayan So, we have got to take the picture as Fotedar, Shri Paidi Lakshmayya„ it is, with all its bright spots and with Shri Ram Sahai Tiwari, Shri all its dark spots and try to change Panna Lai, Shrimati Uma Nehru, the outline of the picture in such a Shrimati Renu Chakravartty, Shri way as will conform to our accepted Bijoy Chandra Das, Shri Durga notions of what is right. Charan Banerjee, Shri V. Veera- swamy, Her Highness Rajmata Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: May Kamalendu Mati Shah, Shri B. S. I know whether efforts will be made Murthy, Shri K. S. Raghavachari, to give practical shape to the views Shri Nand Lai Sharma and Shri which the hon. Minister has given— Digvijaya Narain Singh.*’ that the husband and wife should share together the property at the The motion was adopted. time of marriage. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The House will now stand adjourned and meet Shri Biswas: That is my view. In again at 8-15 a.m. tomorrow. fact, I was wondering if I should not have a general law which will apply The House then adjourned till not merely to Hindus but to all, and Quarter Past Eight of the Clock on will provide that upon marriage there Friday, the 14th May, 1954