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PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE Tuesday, 9th November, 2010 The House of Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o'clock p.m. PRAYERS (MR. SPEAKER in the Chair) ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES MR. SPEAKER: I have to remind hon. members to switch off their cellphones before commencement of business as the cellphones may interfere with the digital audio equipment. SECOND READING ZIMBABWE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AMENDMENT BILL [H.B.2, 2010] First Order read: Second Reading: Zimbabwe National Security Council Amendment Bill [H.B. 2, 2010]. Question again proposed. THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: I move that the Zimbabwe National Security Council Amendment Bill [H.B. 2, 2010] be read a second time. In moving the motion, as you may recall, sometime last year, I presented the Second Reading Speech for the Zimbabwe National Security Council Bill, which is now law. For the reminiscence of hon. members, the decision to establish the Zimbabwe National Security Council was taken in February 2009 for the purposes of overseeing and reviewing national policies on security to encompass issues of defence, law and order and issues pertaining to the economy. The Global Political Agreement (GPA), signed on 15 September 2008 made reference to the National Security Council, with the suggestion accepted by all parties to the GPA, to set up the National Security Council under an Act of Parliament. The Zimbabwe National Security Act [Chapter 11:22] became law in 2009 and in accordance with section 3(a), the following are members; His Excellency the President as Chairman; The two Vice Presidents; The Prime Minister; Two Deputy Prime Ministers; Ministers responsible for Finance, Defence Forces and Police Force; and Three Ministers, each nominated to the Council by each of the Political parties. Signatories to the Inter Party Agreement: The Act in section 3(b) also provides for additional members of the Council; the Minister of State in the President's Office responsible for National Security; The Chief Secretary to the President and Cabinet; Secretary to the Prime Minister; Commander of the Defence Forces; Commander of the Army and Air Force; Commissioner General of Police; Commissioner of Prisons; and Director General in charge of National Security. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Zimbabwe National Security Council, at its meeting of July 2009 made two important observations namely; Firstly, that while the Commissioner of Prisons was an ex-officio member of the Zimbabwe National Security Council, the responsible Minister, that is, the Minister of Justice and Legal Affairs, was not a member of the body. Secondly, it was also noted that the Minister of State for National Security was listed in the Act, under the same category as his key official, the Director General, a situation which needed to be revisited. Mr. Speaker Sir, following discussion on the observations made, the Zimbabwe National Security Council recommended that the Act be amended to address their concerns. The Bill therefore, seeks to amend the Zimbabwe National Security Council Act to include the minister responsible for Prisons and to move the Minister of State for National Security from the category comprising officials, to the first category which I would call the political membership of the Zimbabwe National Security Council. With these few words, Mr. Speaker Sir, I commend the Bill to the House and move that the Zimbabwe National Security Council Amendment Bill be now read a second time. MR GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I think in general we can understand the logic and reasoning behind the amendment. However, I want to get some clarification from the minister because when I look at issues of prisons, I do not see how they fit in with matters of national security because if you look at the Act, it talks of issues of national security. I think one can see the nexus between security, Ministries of Defence and Ministers responsible for the Police Force. When it comes to prisons, I think it is important for the minister to explain to this august House how issues of prisons tie in with matters of national security. The explanation given by the minister is that the Commissioner of Prisons is an ex-officio member, however if matters relating to prisons do not fall in with matters of security my thinking will be that, perhaps the Commissioner of Police should rather be removed as opposed to a situation of rectifying the anomaly by putting in the minister responsible for Prisons. I think we just need to have that explanation so that we can have the clarity as to why that is the case. I understand that at the present moment the current Commissioner of Prisons is an ex-military person however, it does not necessarily have to be the case. In normally circumstances, the Commissioner of Prisons may actually be a person who has nothing to do with the military and by the same token who has nothing to do with issues of national security. MR MUSHONGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, internationally, prison service is now social, it is for rehabilitation and the move is that prison service is now more privatised in other countries, you hire out prison service in South Africa and that is the thinking which is progressing. We believe that prison service should be more social, more rehabilitation. When you are talking of social and rehabilitation, we are not talking about national security, we are talking about reforming the prisoner and that is the contention why we are saying, we do not believe it is necessary to put prison service into national security. THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFFAIRS (MR. CHINAMASA): Thank you very much, I welcome the comments made and I hope that I will do justice in explaining first the nexus between prison service and security. In the first instance, I think the hon. member will be aware that the prison service belongs to disciplined uniformed forces. When we are talking of armed forces of government, we are talking of not only the Police, the Defence Forces, the Air Force but we are also talking of the prisons. After all, when we arrest persons who are threatening your security, we put them somewhere, clearly we put them in the prisons and that is where the clear nexus between prisons and your security is. You do not keep them in your houses when you arrest persons who have committed acts of threats of violence against - but also I want to expand that you should never understand security in its narrow sense, security is all encompassing touching every aspect of life including economy. Most security experts would say that in order to look after your security, look after your economy, if you are hungry, you are not a secure nation. So, I want them to understand. The prisons are not only in the social area, there are in everything, for instance right now, we do farming but we also keep those who are a threat to security. I want that understanding of the global aspect of the prisons to be clearly understood. Also, regionally and also continentally, the prisons are now part and parcel of the joint commissions on security. In fact, it is only Zimbabwe which was not complying with that requirement. If we had the SADC Ministers of Defence and Security, all along all the departments of prisons from other member countries were attending their meetings and we have now been told that we are part of that forum. Similarly in any joint commissions between this country and other countries, we are now a member of that Commission on Defence and Security. Continentally, it is also the same, when the UN sends missions to countries like Liberia, Somalia et cetera, a component of those teams that come from away are Zimbabweans prison service to set up prisons as part of the need to enhance security in those countries. So, I want to say to Hon. Gonese and Hon. Mushonga that the decision that the Zimbabwe Prison Service be part of the National Security Council was legitimate and wise. All that remains now is basically to include the political leadership which super intense over the prison service. ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR. SPEAKER WOMEN’S CAUCUS MR SPEAKER: Order, I have to inform the House that the Women Caucus meeting scheduled for tomorrow, 10th November 2010 at the Wild Geese has been postponed to a date yet to be advised. THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFFAIRS: I move that the Bill be read a second time. Motion put and agreed to. Bill read a second time. Committee Stage: With leave; forthwith. COMMITTEE STAGE ZIMBABWE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AMENDMENT BILL [H.B.2, 2010] House in Committee. Clauses 1 and 2 put and agreed to. House resumed. Bill reported without amendments. Third Reading: With leave; forthwith. THIRD READING ZIMBABWE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 2, 2010] THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: I move that the Zimbabwe National Security Council Amendment Bill [H.B.2, 2010] be now read the third time. Motion put and agreed to. Bill read the third time. MOTION PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS. Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech. Question again proposed. MR. DUBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I wish to present my maiden speech. For the few years I have been in this House, I have come to understand that whatever is said in this House is just for the ears and record but nothing actually benefits the people I am representing, so I wish we could have good policies, programmes and plans made in various forums that are gathering dust in files and shelves.