Scruggs Keith Tuners

D-Tuner Interview Transcript Bill Keith - Woodstock, New York July 19, 2000 (Revised: 6/13/01) Portions of this interview published in Banjo Newsletter Vol. XXVIII No.10 August 2001 By Bob Kerr Introduction: The modern-day bluegrass banjo has gone through some fascinating historical transformations from the hollowed-out gourd instruments that came to America from Africa via slave trade. Through the needs of the music, arguably, there has been no greater impact on the playing and creative potential of the modern bluegrass banjo than the addition of the D-Tuner or D-Tuning Peg. With this in mind, I had a chance to talk with Bill Keith about his tuners, the history behind them, how they came about and how they work. Bob : Bill, first, thank you for taking the time to do this interview, as well as to personally install your second and third string D-tuners on my banjo ... which is what inspired me to ask you for this interview. Bill : You're more than welcome. Bob : Before we dive into the D-tuners, could you share your earlier musical history? Bill : Sure. I can't remember not being interested in music. My first instrument was a plastic ukulele. Then I took piano lessons for several years and in the process learned how to read music. During my early teens (living in the Boston area) I listened to the 'clear- channel, late night radio stations' that broadcast country music from the south and the midwest. Those stations are where I first heard the banjo. From the very first time I heard it, I loved that banjo sound so much that I decided to switch from the piano to the banjo. Living in the Boston suburbs in the mid-1950's, I went to a local music store to find out about renting one and taking lessons. Since I didn't know anything about banjos and didn't know the music, I ended up renting a short-necked tenor banjo with four strings. I took lessons for a year and a half, learning from sheet music. Then, I ran into a guy who played the plectrum banjo, which had a longer neck and different tuning. My tenor teacher wasn't familiar with plectrum tuning, so he gave me a good book to start with and told me I was on my own. Within a couple of years, I was playing for square dances and in a small dixie-land band. In the summer of 1957, I saw and heard someone playing a five string banjo and immediately realized that it was a 5-string banjo I had heard years before. So, less than a month after that, as an entering freshman at Amherst College, I bought my first five string banjo and got the Pete Seeger instructional book to work with. Among the several styles he taught, he included a simplified version of the 3-finger style in which the right thumb played only on the 5th string. But, he recommended that, 'if you like this style, you should go out and buy an Earl Scruggs record and/or a Don Reno Record.' So, that's exactly what I did -- I bought some of their records and starting figuring out how to pay that style. I noticed that Earl's thumb played every string, not just the fifth. By listening to records and slowing them down, I figured out the Scruggs style, learned some of his songs and began transcribing them into piano notation. Once I did that, I could then figure out the tablature. Bob : How did you learn to do tablature? Bill : I had learned it from the Pete Seeger book. So, by the time my junior year rolled around (1959-60), I had transcribed enough of Earl's music to fill a thick workbook with his tunes. Bob : What else was happening? Bill : I was jamming and playing in a local Bluegrass band. I also started playing with Jim Rooney, who also was at Amherst. We played in small clubs, on radio shows, did a show on the old UHF TV station in Springfield, Mass. and opened a show for Joan Baez at Dartmouth College. During the summers I practiced a lot and continued to play for square dances. I also got to know a fascinating lady named June, the wife of a machinist friend of mine. She played fiddle and knew lots of obscure square dance tunes from Nova Scotia. One of the tunes was the "Devil's Dream" and the first time I heard June play it, I realized that I could play those same notes on the banjo. Following "Devil's Dream," I learned other fiddle tunes and this was the beginning of my melodic style of playing. After graduation (1961), I moved to Boston and got to know other musicians in the Boston area and played in coffee houses with Jim. Jim and I eventually recorded several albums. In late fall (1961), I enlisted in the Air Force Reserves and was stationed in the Boston area for six months of active duty and continued playing music with Jim Rooney, who had also moved to Boston. The following year (1962) we went to the Philadelphia Folk Festival and I won the banjo contest with "Devil's Dream." After active duty, I moved to the Washington, DC area and worked with Red Allen and Frank Wakefield. In December of 1962, I saw Earl Scruggs in concert for the first time. By then, I had transcribed, in music notation and tablature, most all of his instrumentals and a few vocals. Since this concert was produced by my friend Manny Greenhill, who got work for Jim and me in the Boston area, I was able to meet Earl after the show. It was then that I showed him my workbook with all of my transcriptions of his tunes. He was pretty surprised. He wanted to see all of what I had done and how I had done it. I showed him what I had done, as well as an earlier songbook published by Peer International in which the printed music did not accurately represent the way he played his tunes. But, since Earl didn't read music he couldn't verify either the Peer songbook or my workbook, so, he put me to the test by asking me to play from my workbook while he watched. For the most part, my transcriptions were accurate. And, with Earl, himself, to correct any mistakes, we were also able to insure that the tab was correct. He told me he was working on a new instruction book (Earl Scruggs and the Five String Banjo) and wanted to use my tabs in it. He invited me to come to Nashville and work with him on that book, which I did. I stayed with Earl and his wife, Louise, at their house, on and off for a few weeks. Using my transcriptions, we worked together on the instructional book and the instructional record that goes with it. Together, we verified the songs as follows. I would play from my tablature what I had deduced from his records and he would tell me if I was right. I was also fortunate to travel with him on the bus and observe him as he played shows on the road and as they recorded their WSM Martha White radio show. So, by the time the instructional book went to print, we knew that the tablature was true and accurate. Every tune included in that book is my tablature, even the exercises. At this same time, Louise was starting their music publishing company. Since you have submit a transcription of an original song or tune as part of the application for a music publisher's license, Louise asked if I would write out Earl's song "Nashville Blues", in what they call 'lead-sheet format.' My efforts with that helped in the formation of their publishing company - "Earl Scruggs Music." I also had a chance to play backstage in some of the warm-up sessions for the Grand Ole Opry. At one of those times I was overheard by Kenny Baker, who brought Bill Monroe in to hear me. They both listened for a while and then at the end of the evening, I was offered a job as banjo player with Bill Monroe. So, in early March of 1963, I became a 'Bluegrass Boy.' Bob : With what we now know about the rift Bill Monroe had with Flatt and Scruggs, wasn't this a touchy situation for you? Bill : No, not really. Although I had figured out that the two of them didn't get along, neither Bill or Earl seemed to object to my working with the other.

Bob : So, where did this interest in D-Tuners begin? Bill : The first tune on my first Earl Scruggs record ("Foggy Mountain Jamboree"), which I bought in 1957, is "Flint Hill Special." That was the first time I ever heard someone changing the pitch of a string while they were playing. It caught my attention right away and I tried to understand how that was being done. There are several other tunes ("Earl's Breakdown," "Foggy Mountain Chimes," and "Randy Lynn Rag") in which he also D-tunes and re-tunes while playing. Earl told me that when he recorded "Earl's Breakdown" he had not yet developed a tuning device, so he turned the 2nd string tuning peg by hand. If you listen carefully, you can hear him retune while the rest of the band is playing. But, after recording it, he decided to add a separate peg that would enable him to change the pitch of the 2nd string so he could play "Earl's Breakdown" more accurately and consistently. Shortly thereafter, he added another peg for the 3rd string and used both tuners for the other D-tuner songs on that "Foggy Mountain Jamboree" album. People called these extra pegs - 'cams', 'cheaters', 'winders', 'twisters' or 'Scruggs Pegs." Some players like Don Reno just reached up on the peghead and pulled on the strings when he wanted to raise the pitch. Since these special pegs were not available commercially, besides Earl, many people made their own versions of cam tuners. Some were crude and rudimentary. The two you see in figures #1 and #2 are two of the better examples.

Bob : Why this general interest in note changing in the first place? Bill : As I understand it, changing notes while playing really began with the steel guitar. In 1955, an adventurous steel guitar player added a pedal to his guitar to change the tuning while he played. The song "Slowly" was the first recording that used this new pedal on the steel guitar. When Earl heard that recording he was inspired to apply the concept to the five-string banjo and he built his cams for that purpose. That's when he wrote those instrumentals for his "Foggy Mountain Jamboree" album. There is a funny story about all of this. Earl installed his original cam for the 2nd string (to play "Earl's Breakdown") in the middle of his peghead. So, when he decided to add another cam for the 3rd string, he had to take out the original cam, fill up that hole and install two new ones, drilling separate holes for each. In the process, pearl inlay was chipped and the peghead began to look messy. So, to make things look neater, he took off the cover from the light fixture of Louise's floor polisher and used it to cover that area of his peghead. You can see it on the album cover of "Foggy Mountain Jamboree." Some people thought he was trying to conceal his mechanical device under that cover. But, he told me, he was simply trying to make it look better. Bob : Were you also using tuners? Bill : Shortly after hearing the "Foggy Mountain Jamboree" album, I had built a crude set of cams just to play those tunes. By the time I went to Nashville to work with Earl on his banjo instructional book, in early January of 1963, I had some better cam-style tuners. By then, Earl had met a fellow named Walt Pittman, in California, who built him a more precise set of cams than the ones Earl had built himself. Walt also replaced Earl's finger board with new frets and inlays. During my first months with Monroe, I went back to Boston on several occasions for remaining military commitments and also to visit with my family and friends. One friend from college, Dan Bump, also played banjo, and like me, enjoyed figuring out how things work. In one of those visits, Dan and I talked about going into the banjo business in some way. At first, Dan wanted to make high-tech banjos with aluminum rims, cast fiberglass necks and other modern materials, but I wasn't sure how receptive the market would be for that kind of banjo. People seemed to like the traditional materials and techniques. So, we decided to re-engineer the cam-style tuners. Having to drill holes was a big objection to the cam-style tuners. A lot of people don't want to drill holes in a fancy pearl inlaid peghead which would weaken it if not done properly. Another objection was their accuracy. Many of the cam-style tuners were better than turning a tuning peg by hand, but still not very precise. So, after three or four hours of sketching out ideas on a legal pad, one afternoon, we arrived at the design of a new type of tuning peg. Essentially, we had combined the function of a standard tuning peg with the d-tuning function -- all within the regular tuning peg housing. It would no longer be necessary to drill extra holes through a beautiful peghead to install the cam-style tuners. Figure #3 is a present day model of our design. Bob : So, how does it work? Bill : Looking at figure #8 you can see all the parts. You can see the planetary gear set that is in the upper part of the housing -- the sun gear in the center, the 3 planet gears which move around it inside the ring gear, which is part of the housing. Since the sun gear and planet gears have the same number of teeth, the gear ratio is 4 to 1. Below the planetary gear set are the parts that make the d-tuning possible and are the key to our design. In the right-center part of figure #8 you can see the two discs and the small spring that connects them.

Outside the housing (figure #9) are the two thumb screws. Each one locks one of the disks, which set the high and low notes. Then, once you have set your high and low notes with the thumbscrews, you can change your tuning knob to a convenient angle and set the friction by adjusting the end thumb screw (figure #9).

That was a pretty good afternoon's work, wasn't it?! Bob : It sure was! Bill : After Dan and I got this new 'D-Tuner' design down on paper, we took it to my machinist friend, Loring, to see if he would build our first prototype. He took on the job, and a month later when I was back on tour with Bill Monroe, Dan mailed the first pair to me ( figure #5). While we were on the road, I had a chance to try them out and fortunately they worked quite well. Our tour took us to California where I happened to meet Walt Pittman. After checking out the tuners he offered to make better looking nuts, washers and thumbscrews to replace the 'off-the-shelf' hardware that Loring and Dan had installed (figure #5).

Bob : When did Earl find out about these new tuners? Bill : Upon our return to Nashville, after the tour, I showed them to Earl. He was quite impressed and wanted to be involved in some way. After leaving Bill Monroe in late December, 1963, I returned to Boston. Encouraged by Earl's response, Dan and I incorporated some improvements into our 2nd prototype (see Figures #6 and #7). We wanted to make them smaller so that the banjo could fit more easily into its case. We also decided to make the spool on the third string tuner (figure #6) smaller than the one on the 2nd string tuner (figure #7).

The first prototype had the same spool size for both strings, which meant the 2nd string tuner, lowering from B to A had to be turned further than the third string tuner, lowering from G to F#. So, in the second prototype, we made a small spool for the third string and large spool for the second string. In figures 6 and 7 you can see the difference in spool size. And to finish up the 2nd prototype, I used the nuts, washers and set (thumb) screws that Walt Pittman had made for me. This pair looked great and worked even better than the first pair. So, Dan and I decided to start a business and begin manufacturing them. Bob : How'd you do that? Bill : We formed a corporation in late January, 1964, and I was elected President. I chose the name "Beacon Banjo Company" because of Beacon Hill in Boston and because it reminded me of Bacon Banjo Company, named after Fred Bacon, one of the finest banjo players in the early 1900's. Now, as a corporation, Dan and I invested a couple thousand dollars and issued ourselves stock. That money financed the run of our first fifty pairs. We got the parts made at a local production machine shop and assembled them in Dan's garage. As a surprise for me, Dan had a tool made to stamp my name on them. The first few pairs made in the garage were stamped "Keith" on the flat surface of each tuner. Although our first and second prototypes were made of brass, and like most tuning pegs, would have eventually been either nickel or chrome plated, we decided to avoid the problems and expense of plating by making them out of stainless steel -- which works just fine. We also decided to make tuners for the first and fourth string, since cam-style tuners couldn't be installed on those strings. Having tuners on all 4 strings made a lot of new things possible. As I said earlier, after Earl had seen the first prototype in Nashville 3 months before, he wanted to be involved in some way. However, he was endorsing Vega Banjos and they were using his name in their advertising. Because of that, we could only use his name on our tuners if he became part-owner with us, so we sold him some shares in the company. That allowed us to use his name and coincidently gave us some additional funding. We then advertised our tuners as "Scruggs-Keith Tuners." Bob : At some point were they called "Scruggs Pegs?" Bill : The various types of cams that were installed on top of the peghead were often referred to as 'Scruggs Pegs.' But, because the new tuners that Dan and I made were quite different and were our invention, these were not Scruggs Pegs. Ours were hidden under the peghead, were part of the tuning peg itself and did not contain cams. Also, Earl had nothing to do with the design and development of this new tuner. However, when Earl did become part owner with us and we began production of the next 500 pairs, all three of our names: "Scruggs-Keith-Bump", were stamped on the flat surface of the tuner where my name had been stamped on those first few pairs. During the remainder of the 1960's, his name remained on them, but around 1970 when he sold his shares back to the company, we changed the stamp to the "Keith Banjo Tuner." Bob : How'd you get the word out? Bill : Earl was using them on his public appearances and on TV. People saw and heard him, especially in the South. This became great 'word of mouth' advertising. We had a good response from advertising in "Sing Out" magazine, which reached an additional audience of people in the North and West. There was also a lot of local interest in the Boston area, as well as the folk scene in the Boston-New York corridor, Chicago, Denver, Berkeley, and LA. Bob : How successful were you? Bill : At the time, we had no idea how popular these tuners would be. We thought the demand might peak and then drop off. But, as it turned out, the demand didn't drop off very much. It became clear that we couldn't continue assembling them in Dan's garage, so we moved into a small building in Cambridge. Our new company also sold some other banjo parts and accessories, and for a few years even manufactured pewter plates, cups and candle sticks, pursuing an interest of Dan's. A few years later, the company moved to Newburyport, Mass. and in the mid-seventies, moved to Putney, Vermont, where some of Dan's family lived. During much of this time period, I was less active in the daily business of Beacon Banjo because I continued playing music and touring with various bands. During the seventies, Bluegrass music was growing in popularity and the tuners were selling pretty well. But, in the late 1980's, sales had fallen off and Dan wanted to pursue other interests. So, I decided to buy his shares of the company and become sole owner. I moved it from Vermont to my home here in Woodstock, NY. The following year, Dan died suddenly of a brain aneurysm. It came as a shock since he seemed in such good health and had had no history of medical problems. It was just one of those things you could never expect. Bob : So, how many have you made since production began in 1964? Bill : Based on the registration numbers on the guarantee card we include with each pair, we are now over 27,000, which doesn't include the custom orders we have done for Gibson and the ones we currently provide to Fender and Ovation and others. During our 38 year history, I estimate the total number to be about 30,000 pairs. Bob : How has the price varied over the years. Bill : The first pairs sold for $50.00, which, at the time, seemed expensive to Dan and me. By March of 2000, the price had increased to $200.00. But, compared to the increase in price of a car or a gallon of gas over the past 38 years, the tuners haven't gone up nearly as much. Bob : How well have they held up? Bill : From our first production run, we were very pleased with their durability, so, we gave them a five year guarantee. We later lengthened that guarantee since very few were returned because of manufacturing defects. I think that if they are well cared for, the tuners could outlast us all. Bob : I take it then, that you also service your D-Tuners? Bill : Yes. When the tuners stop working properly, it's usually because the grease has dried out. We are using a new grease containing teflon. For a small fee, we clean and lubricate them. We also install new leather friction washers, test them out and send them back to the owner. Bob : Has there been much competition from other makers? Bill : These days you hardly ever see cam-style tuners anymore. There are copies of our tuners made in Germany, "Schaller," and in Japan, "Gotoh." I'm sure they have cut into our market share, but I have also heard from a lot of people who have had problems with those copies. They might be less expensive, but they don't have our quality or guarantee and they don't seem to hold up very well. Bob : Are there any recent developments you'd like to talk about? Bill : Earlier this year, I began selling the tuners 'direct,' taking orders by fax and phone and accepting credit cards. We are still supplying Gibson, Stelling, Fender, Deering, OME and other makers and luthiers. And, soon you will be able to purchase the D-Tuner through our web-sites: "beaconbanjo.com" and "keithtuners.com". And, it's still fun to meet new players and hear new ways they're using the tuners. Both Allison Brown and Casey Henry have written tunes using the D-tuners. Check out Alison Brown's "Girls Breakdown" and Casey's title track from her new album - "Real Women Drive Trucks." Bela Fleck has written, recorded and arranged several original tunes and a remarkable arrangement of "Amazing Grace," using tuners on all four strings. And, check out "Katmandu" on Bela's 'Tales From the Acoustic Planet Vol. 2' album! Bob : What are you doing these days? Bill : Presently, I am very excited about a new book coming out that I co-authored with Jim D'Ville, titled The Natural Way to Music. It is modeled after my banjo class. You can find out more about it from "www.naturalwaymusic.com". I also teach students here in Woodstock. And, I travel to various locations around the country to teach. In July, I will be at Alan Munde and Joe Carr's Bluegrass Camp at South Plains College in Levelland, Texas. This year alone, I have already taught at the Maryland Banjo Academy, Banjo North and Westminster College in Western Maryland. In addition, I also conduct banjo workshops at some bluegrass festivals. I've done some recording lately. At the end of May, I went to DC to work with Frank Wakefield on several cuts for his new album. And, in April, I went to Nashville to record with a Japanese group. Bob : In closing, is there any one story that comes to mind that you'd like to share that would wrap this interview up? Bill : Even though it has been almost 40 years, I still stay in touch with June Hall and her husband Loring. During a recent visit, June mentioned that her great nephew was working in Nashville "in a band with a funny name." She mentioned that he played saxophone. On an outside chance, I asked: "Does he play with the FleckTones?" And, she said - "Yes! His name is Jeff Coffin." It seems amazing to me that the great nephew of the woman who inspired me in the melodic style and the man who built my first two prototypes is playing with Bela Fleck, who does such extraordinary things with both the melodic style and the D-tuners. It sure is a small world.