The Skating Lesson Podcast Transcript U.S. Nationals Recap

Jenny Kirk: Hello, and welcome to The Skating Lesson podcast, where we interview influential people from the world of figure skating so they can share with us the lessons they learned along the way. I’m Jennifer Kirk, a former US ladies competitor and a three-time world team member.

Dave Lease: I’m David Lease. I was never competing at nationals, and after last night, I’m sure if I really want to, but I am a figure skating blogger and a current adult skater. Today, we are thrilled to welcome Miki Yamashita…

Miki Yamashita: Hi.

Dave: …and Timothy Goebel to the podcast.

Timothy Goebel: Hi, everybody!

Dave: We’re just going to break down the ladies competition at US nationals for you. We haven’t discussed it with each other, so it’s gonna be one of those barn-burner conversations on The View. So I hope that you all just enjoy, and send us your feedback if you agree with us, don’t agree with us, think that we’re awful people, but I think today is all about honesty.

Jenny: I agree. All right, so let’s get into it. Let’s start with you, Miki. What did you take – what was your takeaway from last night?

Miki: I have to say that I spent pretty much all night trying to fathom what the heck happened, especially in the last fifteen, twenty minutes. I feel like after what I saw, in all the ladies that I saw, I feel like the judges took a bunch of pieces of paper, cut them up, wrote numbers on them, and then threw them on the ice like confetti. And those were the results.

Jenny: So, just like all over the place. And Tim…

Miki: I, just, the – I don’t understand how if I, if as a lifetime skating fanatic, if I can’t figure out what the scores mean, then how is any random schmo off the street supposed to get excited about skating?

Jenny: They don’t. What I was – Tim, what are your takes?

Tim: I think it was an interesting result last night. I don’t necessarily – I feel very strongly that the, that the rank order of the results did not reflect the programs that were performed.

Jenny: Okay. I think we can all agree with that. And Dave? Dave, your opening comment.

Dave: My opening comment was that when the results came in last night, I thought, like – instead of being outraged because I have some distance from it, not having competed at nationals, I thought it was just hilarious that I was like – oh, this is done. This is done. And then to see Sandra and Scott sit there and be like – oh, well, Gracie, she had such exuberance – or whatever Sandra was trying to say. Like, and it was almost payback for them because so much of what we have now is because they threw such a hissy at the pairs in Salt Lake City. And I felt like this was ten times the level of joke that those results were. And I thought that it was amusing to watch the commentators on NBC trying to keep their jobs and explain what happened at the same time. It was just – looking back and being absent from it and sitting back, it’s hilarious I really think is what happened.

Miki: Ashley looked embarrassed. Dave: I think she had a right to be embarrassed.

Miki and Jenny: Yeah!

Jenny: Say whatever the heck you wanna say, because we’re gonna go there.

Miki: She looked mortified that she – she won a title that she didn’t earn. There you go. I mean, she knew she fell – she knew she had two major falls smack in the middle of her program! I mean, she picked it up at the end, but recovering – it’s like, that doesn’t count as much as, I don’t know, not having your ass touch the ice.

Dave: I would say that when you fail at a math test and you get like seven problems wrong in the middle of it, your teacher then doesn’t go give you an A at the bottom. Like – you came together really well at the end! Congratulations to you! They’re like – no, that was bad, you missed seven elements there, go work harder.

Jenny: Well okay, here. All right, I have a question for you, Tim, because I posted this on my Facebook and people wrote all these comments, and I’m gonna read some of them. And one commenter said, “Ashley deserved to win. She skated circles around Gracie. Ashley can skate, Gracie has – just has jumps. She will be a wonderful skater one day, but she doesn’t match Ashley or the other ladies in actual skating.” So, I was looking at the protocol. The interpretation of their program – Ashley got 8.46, Gracie got 7.5. So, Tim, what do you take of that? Because as a skater, if you fall twice in a program, that’s gonna affect your interpretation. Like, you’re not supposed to fall in that program! It’s gonna affect the overall presentation. Do you agree?

Tim: Well, absolutely. I mean, it’s the same scenario when – we’ve all seen events where someone will go out and fall down under the old system, and they would get a 6.0 for artistic. And we’re going, “but, they fell down, it wasn’t a perfect program.” When you have – Ashley was not on her A-game last night. Her program was a little tight. She was a little bit slow. And she made some pretty major mistakes, and I personally feel that that detracted from the performance. I’ve seen her do that program a couple times this season, and she definitely has not posted component scores like that a previous events where she skated far better. So, I’m a little bit – I don’t care how good of a skater you are. When you make multiple mistakes, when you’re a little bit tight, when you’re a little bit slow – and, like, you could tell from the minute she got on the ice that she was tight and she was a little bit slow. That’s – frankly, that’s why she missed.

Jenny: And she – you know, it’s understandable. She was trying to defend her title.

Tim: Exactly, but it detracts – it detracts from the performance. I don’t ever – I know as an athlete that performances where I stood up the entire time, I feel like I performed them better because I wasn’t going, “oh, crap, there’s two more minutes of this.” It changes the way you perform the program. There’s just no way around it, and I don’t think many former elite athletes would argue with that. I mean, I just – it would be one thing if she had made one mistake or the program was just tight. But it was – there was a lot going on. Like, her spins weren’t the same quality that they normally are. It just wasn’t her night. And you know what, that’s fine. But, like, she had some of the highest component scores that she got the entire season, and she skated that program much better this season.

Dave: Well, I think we need to be real about how good of a skater she is to get these component scores, to get these 8.5s. On the Grand Prix, she got kind of a 7.75 level of component mark. It was between like a 7.7 and a 7.9. And she made two mistakes there as well, and those were, frankly, a little bit generous as well for that performance. And I think the thing with her is that she’s almost the best from the rest, on a good day.

Jenny: She’s consistent.

Dave: Yes, but if you have a field of top ladies – if she was competing against the Michelles, Taras, Nicole Bobeks, Sasha Cohens, she would be kind that third place, pewter medalist year in year out [Jenny points to herself]. She’s not at that level to get – she’s not you know. Like, I don’t – I feel strong that she’s not, and it’s not insulting to her. I think she’s a good skater, she’s not a great skater. And they’re trying to build her up as a great skater because they’re so determined to have someone repeat as national champion so that Phil Hersh doesn’t write an article saying, “there have been no repeat…” you know, “repeat champions in…”

Jenny: And, you know, I think they do this all the time. But the problem is as a viewer, you don’t understand what they’re doing. And I think – I was talking to Tim about this earlier. If we go back to the 6.0 system, you can see – all right, the judges gave Gracie a 5.9 for technical and then, say, they gave Ashley a 5.7. Ridiculously high for how she skated, and then a 5.9 for artistry. But at least you can kind of understand it. When it’s this 100 point da da da da da, a number, we don’t know what’s going on! Nobody knows what’s going on! And it’s just – it’s maddening, and it’s frustrating. And then you go back and you look at the protocol, and there’s like five things for the skating – for the interpretation, skating skills stuff. That stuff is all subjective, anyway! Just do it in one score, because you’re gonna cheat anyway. I’m sorry, I’m so angry.

Dave: And they didn’t even give her like a call on her lutz. Like, did her lutz magically get on the right edge from the Grand Prix Final until last night? Like it was…

Miki: What I don’t understand is – if you are not landing two jumps in your long program, so that means you do not get the base score, you do not get a grade of execution because you didn’t execute it period. So then how is – how is Ashley on top? Is it the short, the weight of the short program? I mean, what is it?

Tim: Well she – well, she was two points and change ahead in the total combined score. And now, granted, Gracie’s, the short was not good. But the – the issue that I have is not, is not even that Ashley won so much but the fact that she was second in the long program when there were at least four other programs that were much stronger than hers, frankly. There were a whole bunch of clean triple-triples that were done, and, you know, there were some programs that were clean or almost clean that were scored significantly lower. And I didn’t think, personally, that the – that the separation of points in the component scores should have been as great as it was for some of those girls.

Jenny: I agree, and…

Miki: [jumble of words] though, how does Mirai end up seventh?

Jenny: Right. Were those jumps under-rotated, you guys? Because I say no. I think she didn’t skate well, but even then, for her interpretation, she got 6.86 versus Ashley’s 8.46.

Tim: I thought she got slammed.

Jenny: Yeah, is – are there really two points difference there? I don’t think so.

Tim: I don’t see it.

Dave: Some of her jumps were under. Like, they were. But some of Ashley’s were, too, and they didn’t deduct for that on her marks. So, she didn’t get…

Jenny: On the interpretation mark, yeah, it didn’t affect her performance. But apparently – I think they used…

Dave: The judges stubbed Mirai last night, and they sent a big message to her…

Jenny: And Caroline that you guys are done. You had your chance, and you didn’t do it.

Dave: You guys are done. You had your chance, you’re not with Frank Carroll, we’re not going to pretend to like you. Like, this is – they were saying to Mirai, your career is over. Thanks for playing, bye. And that – it was… Tim: Well, but I, but I even – I thought Christina Gao did a really lovely program, and it was very sophisticated and like, was…

Jenny: Clean…

Tim: Whereas Ashley’s program – even there, the disparity in points, it just didn’t make sense to me. I mean, honestly, I thought her program was stronger than Ashley’s. I don’t think she should have been as low as she was. And if they would have put – if Ashley’s components would have been in line with what they gave to the other girls and the rank order for the long program ended up the same, Gracie would have won overall, Ashley would have been second. It would have been the same world team, and I think people would have been much more comfortable with the result, other than, of course, I think Mirai, who I think, I do feel kind of got slammed.

Jenny: Really slammed.

Dave: But do you guys feel like Ashley’s program was some Lyra Angelica moment last night that was worth giving bonuses for?

Jenny: No, can we talk about the dress? I’m sorry.

Tim: All right, at this point, I’m checking out.

Dave: Okay.

Jenny: Thank you, Tim! I just – I don’t think it looks good on her, I don’t think she’s – it’s tacky. And I feel like the program is – she’s really grown leaps and bounds in terms of her artistry, but she’s not some artist. She’s not some beautiful skater, and I don’t think that we should pretend that she is. I understand rewarding her for her consistency throughout the season, but she is not a Michelle Kwan on the ice. And she’s as an artistic as she can be, but the overall package, it’s not some beautiful thing to watch her skate.

Dave: Miki, you’re a Kwan fan. What do you make of Ashley Wagner on the ice?

Miki: I do feel that I’m more moved by her work on the ice compared to the field as it exists now. Exactly what you were saying before. If she was, you know – it’s the timing factor that worked out so magically for Ashley because as the super-star ladies were exiting the world stage, she was coming in. And there was really no one who was up to par. And so now, we’re seeing this girl who like who would have been off the podium girl, you know, is now being sort of shaped as the next [video freezes, audio is lost]. And she’s not giving me as much as Michelle Kwan would have had to give in competing with the field of ladies she had to compete with. I do feel moved by her – I mean, she’s made incredible progress. And compared to the, compared to the other girls I saw, yes. I mean, there’s more emotional connection to the ice. There’s more of a sense of like an arc of a character. And you know, I can sense her actually listening to the music. But there’s just something missing that I just wanna be like – I just want my heart ripped out of my chest when I see a long program. And that’s not happening.

Jenny: What do you think, Dave?

Dave: I have so many views on last night that it’s all a blur. I think – oh, God. Last night, I just thought like Gracie gave the performance, you know. And maybe it wasn’t as sophisticated, but she did it. And she actually moved an audience, and they didn’t reward that. And I think that it’s almost as if – when Michelle had a bad skate at nationals in ’97, it was though as if we handed her the gold then. Like, people – the viewer isn’t lied to, you know. And if the casual viewer can watch things and say, “oh, that’s a joke,” well then, why is someone gonna go into skating? You know, why would someone spend a lot of money to put their kid in the sport that frankly was like Miss America last night where Ashley’s on the podium, being like – hi, I… you know. It was just – it was terrible. It was egregious. I think Gracie really – I think people love a come-from-behind story. I don’t understand the point of holding someone up as a national champion just to have someone be a defending champion. To again, be like, “oh, we have a defending champion. All is not lost.” She’s not gonna medal at worlds unless she pulls something out of her behind with that performance. And frankly, the other girls in the world are much better than her because her technical content isn’t that good. They held her up in the short program, too. She had a spin that was a disaster in the short that we kind of all overlooked at the end of her program. So it just – it’s maddening that you’re using the short to justify why she won when she was kind of held up in the short, too. A former champion texted me that she did novice ladies content in the short program. I mean, a triple loop and a triple flip – you know, that’s not great. You know, people in 2001 were doing triple lutz and triple flip, you know. It’s – I don’t see the progression. I don’t see why doing less is suddenly more.

Jenny: Well, and the whole argument with the Code of Points, too, is that you come from behind after the short program. But, like you said, people are doing a triple loop in their short program because there’s going to be an edge change on the triple lutz. So, another poster said, “the sport hasn’t been fun to watch ever since they switched to the Code of Points. I was an avid fan for ten years, but when they switched, they lost me. And the beauty of the sport went out the window anyways. I miss those days. But now, it’s just too hard to follow.” And really, that was the – what I heard so many people say, echoing that sentiment that skating isn’t skating anymore. So what do we do to resolve this system? We’re going back to lower technical – we saw it in a men’s event, people doing triple toe-triple toe, like as a combination because of, like, just messing up. How do we resolve this, you guys?

Dave: Go to Miki first, I think.

Jenny: Miki, what do you think the sport needs?

Miki: It has to be a lot less complicated. It has to be. Like, when the scores come out and people are sitting there in Kiss ‘n Cry, I’m sitting there and everyone – the skaters are sitting there all like – there’s that moment of, like, I don’t know what’s happening! Even when the numbers are there! Everyone’s sort of shrugging a little bit, and I’m shrugging at home. So, if that’s what’s happening – and I followed skating my entire life and I’m confused, then I mean – how are we supposed to recruit more people? I mean, even if in the short program some of the dance programs, I saw all these empty seats, you guys. That is not a good sign for skating! And to make these ridiculous, complicated, you know, scoring algorithms that an audience can’t, like, instantly react to the way we did in the 6.0 days, I mean, you’re just asking people to leave skating in droves! So just – give me a scoring system that I can actually understand without having like a Ph.D. in mathematics!

Dave: I don’t know about you, but I would much rather see a Russian judge put someone in tenth and just – you know…

Jenny: It’s fun! Yeah!

Dave: Sarah Hughes – we don’t like you, I’m putting you in tenth in the short program in Salt Lake City. Like, it was mean, it was cheating, it’s not any different from what happens now, but at least we could see it there and laugh about it or get mad or, you know, be like, “that awful Russian judge.” It’s still the same level of joke, and frankly, it was more entertaining for the viewer. It was hilarious! It was great theater. It’s like watching Dancing with the Stars when _____ is the only who cares that they have…

Jenny: A lift, you know…

Dave: In the dance! And she’s yelling about the, you know – that is, it’s like the Russian judge, the only one that cared that all of Sarah Hughes’s jumps were cheated, you know. Like, it was great, you know. And I think that that is – you get, if you have people that were avid viewers who are kind of holding back. There are still some people who seem last night to kind of try to be justifying the results and be convincing themselves, this is why I still watch skating. Like, that last night was okay. And then there are other people who are outraged. And it feels like there is a level of denying that is going on. And I think that we’re trying to produce a show where we have former skaters and, you know, recent competitors talking about the sport. And one thing that we’ve really had problems with is that every single skater that we have contacted for an interview has said, “please don’t ask me about current skating. I don’t watch. I don’t have an interest.”

Jenny: So true!

Dave: One men’s champion had to be given names, you know, of people to watch before. I mean, no one knows. We have people who are commentators being like, “I’m stunned. Like, I don’t think I’m the right person for the show. Like, I’m done with it.” Well, if every single person that we try to ask, like, “so you still watch skating?” And they try to be like, you know…

Jenny: We interviewed Debi Thomas on Friday. She didn’t even know nationals were going on. Nobody knows! And I think part of that, too, transitioning here, is the coverage! It’s not on TV anymore. We have to pay IceNetwork to watch it! So what did you guys think about the coverage? What did you think about the commentators? Let’s get into that. Miki, why don’t you start?

Miki: I – I loved, okay. I loved like – it was sort of like maybe minutes, well into the, maybe halfway through the evening where Scott was saying – Scott and Sandra were saying, like, “we’re seeing a great night of skating!” And I’m like, “okay, so that’s the criteria for a great night of skating at this point, is that no asses have touched ice? At this point – that’s all, people just need to stay upright? That’s a great night of skating?” I mean, I was just like, are you kidding me! Because in the Scott Hamilton days, I mean, you really had to – you really had to put on a show, and I feel like it’s just so – I mean, and Scott is such a – it’s such a tough thing, too, because he loves skating so much. And he has to, like, give you that enthusiasm even though, you know, he really just wants to like, you know, sit back and have a drink and, like, just, you know, turn it off and like watch, you know, Real Housewives.

Dave: Well I just think it’s funny that NBC is clearly phoning it in. And, you know, like last night, just – they’re grasping for anything. They’re like, “this just…” Like I would love to have seen the commentators’ faces when the marks came in last night and have like – what did Scott say to Sandra? Like, what were their faces to one another? They’re just like, “she had a pretty dress.” Like it was, it was…

Miki: They should have a post-show – like they used to have after, after – after Oprah. We should have a show called “Cover the Mic.” And it just – and they show you what they said when they covered the mic.

Dave: I wanna know what Sandra Bezic’s face was like. And I also want to know if she’s actually, like, sitting there, sipping a glass of wine, because it sounds like she is when she is [hushed voice], “well, you know, Ashley is a wonderful girl.” You know, like, and I – I’m just more amused by watching them. You just – the coverage was crazy. I love how they used to, for years, they had these fluff pieces where the athletes would be driving. And I think, like, I think that they reached their max at that point where Johnny Weir had Christina Aguilera on in the car. And they’re like, “we need to do something differently. Like, this is not working.” And, so, now they have this thing where the skaters are actually like hiking in the woods in Ugg boots. Now, Jenny Kirk actually made that mistake recently of hiking in Ugg boots…

Jenny: I totally did. Five mile hike with Ugg boots will give you a bubble blister, like the biggest bubble blister you’ve ever seen on your heel, and you will not be able to walk for two weeks. It will be…

Dave: Well, Gracie was pulling a Jenny Kirk last night, but her Uggs were glittery and gold because NBC is just dying to have her win in Sochi so that they can be like, “Gold is Golden!” And you know, like – and it’s so corny and cheesy, and it’s like a fifth grader trying to be the editor of a newspaper is what’s going on here with this coverage. Like, these people – these people are phoning it in. David Michaels needs to retire. I’m sorry, get someone in there who can just – it’s a, like, everyone is happy to have their jobs, so everyone’s trying to keep just the status quo. Like, Scott and Sandra sitting there being like, “we used to commentate a lot and make a lot of money in skating, and now we get these few things a year.” And when you see these past champions on IceNetwork, like Tonya Kwiatkowski or Sarah Hughes, like – they don’t have the option to make money doing anything else. Like, there are no shows, no one is paying not to see Sarah Hughes not do any jumps on tour anymore. So, no one is really watching skating. This is all their financial outlet, and frankly, it’s given the federation more power. So now it’s like this amazing abusive relationship to watch on television and in the broadcast, where they’re not going to say anything scandalous. Everyone is just gonna pretend like skating is great. Puffs is our sponsor, we are so happy.

Jenny: That Kiss ‘n Cry is not cute! Like, I like the little, like, little lipstick marks, that was cute. But I just – I feel like there is a big elephant in the room, you know. The world is falling apart, and everyone’s just sitting there, smiling, like being la da da da, like nothing’s going on. Like, this sport is falling apart. We need to fix it. And what did you guys think of NBC’s Newt Terry? My favorite part was when he said, “don’t mess up in the short program. She didn’t, though she did fall on her double axel.” Like, the guy didn’t know what he was talking about! It just – and it just echoes again what this new system is, that people – what is bad, what is good? Is that a bad thing to fall on your double axel in the short program or not, it’s okay, you can still get second that nationals. I just – it infuriates me!

Miki: Right! So like, so like – if the 6.0 system was confusing and corrupt, and then we went through this laborious, like, birthing process. The Interim Judging System, and then finally, we’ve got this whole point thing going on – and it’s still just as corrupt and confusing. So why change?

Dave: I thought it was more. Frankly, I’ve always – like, I used to do these things where, like, my PlayMobil characters would be – my PlayMobil people would be skaters, because they had, like, the little skates on them at the bottom. And, you know, you would write marks, and there was always, like, a British judge who would give them, like, ridiculous marks and she skated like Surya. You know, like, that was just like… and frankly, like, it’s just bogus. Like, the whole thing is like – I think that they cheat more. I think that – I think that now they have an excuse because they can almost, like, pretend to quantify it, and they don’t have to give their names anyway. And frankly, they could deem you a bad skater now much easier than if they just gave you like a 5.5 before for artistic but even in a clean program.

Jenny: Now there’s like five different marks where they can say, “well, your choreography was great, but your skating is…” like, it’s become the more subjective.

Dave: If they don’t mean anything, like Miki said, it’s like they just threw some numbers down. It – it was nothing that reflected what they did on the ice, so…

Miki: It’s like they were going through, and like – let’s draw straws. I don’t know what happened, but…

Dave: It’s almost like creative writing. It’s like when you’re, like, you’re – I think we all feel liberated in a creative writing course after like years of academic writing and taking AP classes way where you have to write the essay the same way for the test, and then you get to do creative writing. That’s almost what the new system is for these judges. They’re like – they’re able to sit there and be like, “well, I think her skating skills were a 5.5.” Like, you know, it’s absolutely out of control.

Miki: But conversely, for the skaters, it’s way more like this rigid essay system where now because they think that they’re adhering to this – they’re like, they’re like a slave to these points, it’s like them, it’s like everybody’s programs starts looking cookie-cutter. And every girl is gonna do the layback to the haircutter to the Biellmann. And it’s like every spin looks exactly the same because they know they have to hit these three positions and get – rack up those points. And then it’s like – well, what’s the whole point of picking different music and having different costumes? Everyone can wear, you know, the Hillary Clinton blue – whatever those two dresses were, like that hideous blue color that I can’t stand. But it was just like everyone wears the Hillary Clinton pantsuit blue color, you know.

Dave: Well, there’s definitely…

Miki: You know, if everyone skates to a rondo, fine! Dave: Yeah, I just love that, like, all the girls on the short program on Ice Network. And I was having a moment where they were all – clearly, they’re training too much that they don’t have boyfriends. Like, let’s be honest. I think they don’t have time for that. They were all skating to Tango de Roxanne, and they don’t have the life experience to pull off the tango. They don’t know what this is about. Frankly, it was background music. And like, you have to do a spin for so long that like right when you get into the program, then they try to do these level four spins. And you see, like, the lower level girls, like, they can’t do the spins like that. Like, they’re not that good. And it just is like thirty seconds of dead air where everyone is just kind of sitting, being like, “she’s still spinning, and it’s terrible, and I’m lost.” You know?

Jenny: And I think so much of why we loved skating in the early ‘90s is we fell in love with the personalities of the skaters. They come out of the ice. You can do, you know, a long spread-eagle like Paul Wylie did or Nancy Kerrigan’s spiral. You can’t do that now, so we can’t even fall in love with these skaters because they all look so generic. There’s nothing unique about any of them, and it’s just frustrating for viewers, I think, to really feel like they can, you know, grasp onto one of these skaters.

Miki: The spirals are like – and I’m done! Like…

Jenny: And I’m gonna kick my leg out way to this side and make it the ugliest thing ever, but that’s the one that’s gonna get the most points when you have, like – it’s ugly! It’s not an aesthetically pleasing shot! It’s – you shouldn’t do it, but you have to!

Miki: And there’s my crotch! What do you think? Here’s my crotch! It’s like…

Dave: Do you think that if skating keeps the way it’s going, like, we’re now, like, we’re not even on cable TV. We’re not even on local access. We’re on, like, USFSA sponsored internet.

Jenny: Yeah, like we have to pay to watch.

Dave: Yes, we’re just giving more money to the federation.

Jenny: I hate that, it makes me so [inaudible].

Dave: I think they must love it! I mean, I don’t think that the USFS seems to really care that they’re not on TV because now we have to pay them to watch their crap. And so it’s like again this abusive relationship system. So I think that…

Jenny: And I have to say – we all love the skaters. Like, from what I could see last night from what people were writing on Facebook and Twitter, we love skaters. We love the sport. I love Ashley Wagner. Like, I think, I really do respect her…

Dave: She has a great fight personality.

Jenny: Yeah, I really respect that she’s consistent. I think she will be great for US skaters, so I don’t want US skating – so I don’t want people to think that we’re knocking on the skaters. But it’s hard not to when it’s run so poorly, and it just – it creates such anger within so many fans because these skaters work so hard. Like, you guys – would you put in all this effort if there weren’t tours, you’re not gonna make any money, you’re not on television. Obviously, you love the sport, but why do it? Like, you have to ask yourself that question.

Miki: Well, the incentive is definitely – I mean, it’s not what it was. And even if you say, make it to the Olympics, you’re still dealing with – okay, and then what? I mean, you’re asking these young girls and their entire families to put every penny they have ever earned on the line to get the skates, to get the boots, to get the costumes, to get the choreography, to get the coach, to get the rink time. I mean, it’s like – it’s a huge sacrifice. And then, when you’re like, when you’re really – you’re gonna sacrifice your entire childhood for this. It’s like you need – you need to have, you know, the guarantee that there is gonna be x number of incentives to continue on with the sport. I mean, you could win titles, but how are you gonna earn a living with those skating shows?

Dave: And frankly, you’re giving up your education to be in skating. Like, let’s be really honest. There are really a few unless you can use the fact that you’re a top skater to then like let you struggle in an Ivy, to be in school. Like, you’re probably not gonna be keeping up with your classmates as much, like, let’s be honest, when you have to spend eight hours on the ice and you’re too tired to read War and Peace. Like, you’re – this is not a viable option. It’s bad parenting!

Miki: How true do you think it is when they say stuff like, “oh, and she’s a sophomore at Harvard.” Like, do you think she’s maybe taking one class?

Jenny: I think there’s an – I think it’s unique to the person. I don’t know. But I…

Dave: There’s a range. There’s a range, and how many – they never tell us how many credits they’re taking. I remember last year there was a lot of flak because they told us that Rachael Flatt was taking zumba, and people made all sorts of jokes for a wide variety of reasons. And it was – I think they like went away from that this year. Like, they don’t tell us what the skaters are taking. Like, are they all criminal justice majors? Like, NCAA athletes where the entire football team is in like Sociology 112, sitting there, you know?

Jenny: And I think, part of the problem is, too, really the wide audience that even some of these commentators on NBC – they only see these skaters once a year at nationals. So, we don’t feel like we really have time to get to know these skaters, and a 30 minute fluff piece of somebody hiking in their Ugg boots – that can only say so much about this individual. So because skating isn’t on TV so much, the commentators…

Miki: It’s just – you have a huge ass blister.

Jenny: Yeah, like we don’t know these people! And I think that it’s, like, so – they have to say whatever talking point they can. But sometimes, maybe it’s not even – as a skater, I know, they would say stuff about me, and I – that’s not true, where did they get this stuff?

Dave: You were the girl who’s mom died, and that was pretty much it. Like, you were…

Jenny: Rachael Flatt, it was the AP student, I was the girl who lived with my sister. PS, when we go into costumes, which I wanna transition to next, because my sister had a lot to say about that. She was really upset!

Dave: Okay, let’s go into it, because I am a gay man, and this is where you peak my interest. So…

Jenny: Okay, Dave, so you’re takes on the overall costumes, what we’ve seen so far in the champmionships. Go.

Dave: Well, I thought that Ashley Wagner was really doing well for the short program. I know that they had some ridiculous theme that no one got. Like, that she’s supposed to be – oh, like Tonya Kwiatkowski had this great…

Jenny: They were the – the strings on her back.

Miki: The straps of the violin, yeah.

Dave: No, her program was supposed to represent – Ashley was supposed to be skating as a violin over the course of five centuries when she was performing to The Red Violin. And except for how boring watching skating actually is, I didn’t get the five centuries. Like, I was just being like – why go there? Like, why even make that hilarious joke that this is some, like…

Miki: I think I really wanted to see some old-age makeup at the end. Dave: I really did!

Jenny: Running through – going through the centuries, yeah.

Dave: It felt like it was as long as watching Russell Crowe like die in Les Miserables. Like…

Jenny: That was a good movie! I liked that movie!

Dave: It was just, you know, it – she had – so, I thought she was doing well for the costume in the short.

Jenny: Good short program costume. And yeah, there’s any other [inaudible].

Dave: But then she just lost it in the long like it was symbolic of her skating. Like her long program, the dress also just tanked. If you’re that white and pale, you can’t wear that yellow color that looks like what happens in the morning after a night of heavy drinking and dehydration. Like, you just can’t – you cannot do that! Why put yourself in that on the ice? Like, you’re not Asian, you’re not Serena Williams, you can’t pull off that color! Like, I’m sorry, nobody...

Jenny: Yellow-orange, yellow or – it’s not cute.

Dave: And she probably paid a lot of money for that very ugly dress, you know? Like that is…

Jenny: So, Dave, a nominee for best dressed at this championship.

Dave: I really liked Samantha Cesario, and I really like that girl that looks like Jenny Kirk, that Becky Bereswill. She – her long program dress looked like one of the Capezio dresses that Jenny used to wear, just like in a different color. I thought she looked good. I liked Samantha Cesario in the short. The long – there were a lot of comments. Some people loved her Swan Lake dress, some people didn’t. As far as worst dress, I have to go with Agnes. I just don’t know what this girl is wearing. I don’t know if it’s – she’s buying these dresses that they, like, sell in the rack at these local skating competitions, like when you compete at Liberty and the dressmaker is there. But they are just – the dresses are wrong, and like, this is your presentation of who you are for the world. And frankly, this is your moment in the sun. Like, these dresses are gonna come back to haunt you when you’re fifty years old. People are gonna be like, “what were you thinking?” And like – it wasn’t cute then, and it’s not gonna be cute in fifty years. So, I…

Jenny: Okay, and the thing about Agnes. If you have dark – if you do the smoky eye, go for it. Looked good. But then, don’t try to complement that with really dark lipstick. And her hair is so pale and her hair is so blonde, it’s just gonna completely wash her out. So, someone needs to change her makeup.

Miki: It was too goth.

Jenny: Yeah, too goth. Miki, you’re up.

Miki: My favorite costume was Angela Wang’s lavender. I liked that. I really liked that. It was – it was just a perfect color, like – on television, you just never know how something’s gonna photograph. So a dress could look really, really – it could look like, the sequins could look really cheap up close, but then you see it on camera and it’s stunning, you know. Or I mean, she really struck the right – the right tone with that beautiful, beautiful lavender. I wasn’t so crazy about Ashley Cain’s white costume. I think that was one of the ones with the built-in necklace. What – here’s the thing with the built-in necklace, okay. There are times when it can work. Kim Yu-Na, Yu-Na, wait, which one is her first name? Yu-Na is her first name, correct?

Dave: I’m confused because they told us it was Yu-Na Kim for years, and now it’s Kim Yu-Na. Sometimes there’s a hyphen, sometimes there’s not. Like, I… Jenny: It’s like Lu Chen versus Chen Lu.

Dave: Chen Lu – like, I just avoid saying her name completely.

Miki: I think we should just call her Kim Jong Un, you know. I think she should just rule all of Korea. But anyway, so…

Dave: I think she does.

Miki: [inaudible, choppy audio] the built-in necklace can work, I have to admit. But not quite, not so much here. Oh, wait, Hannah Miller, is that her name? She had a purple costume as well, but she had the crap hanging off of the sleeves. No! Don’t like that! I mean, that belongs in Les Mis and nowhere else! Okay. I have – I hate the Hillary Clinton cobalt blue. It just looks like a pantsuit!

Dave: And how about the matching – the matching eyeshadow? Tim was watching last night, and he was saying that your eyeshadow should not look like it came off of a pool cue, you know. It just should not be that color. It’s never a good look. Like, it just…

Miki: It’s just rubbing the pool into your eyes.

Jenny: It’s like, “oh, shoot, I don’t have time to put on my makeup. Let me just – here’s these balls.”

Miki: Least favorite costume I think – I did not like Samantha, is it Azaro…

Jenny and Dave: Cesario.

Miki: Cesaro, Cesario.

Jenny: The long program, the back?

Miki: Okay, I felt like…

Dave: With the hands grabbing the boobs, like…

Miki: It looked like hands grabbing the boobs! I was like – what is happening? And then the side was all like unfinished. It just looked like, “oh, and you know, we’re not gonna do the sides.” It was just – I don’t like – she had this, it just looked Elvira decided to start adult skating. I didn’t care for it.

Jenny: All right. And my best dressed – okay, first of all, I really like the Shibutanis. Their free dance. I thought it just was really classy, it was age-appropriate, it made her look more mature. My brother-in-law walked into the room when they were skating and just said – even him, like not a skating fan at all thought they looked amazing. Also, really liked Christina Gao. I think her short and her long program, in particular – the black with like, she had like the dark lipstick and gorgeous girl. I just thought, she’s completely best dressed overall for the championships. Worst dressed – a few things we have to go into. First, if you are going to wear flesh tone, it has to match your skin. I understand that skaters get their costumes made in the summer. We all have this problem – you have a tan. But do not have like dark brown flesh and then you’re really white. It doesn’t look good, and so many of these costumes – they don’t even need to have flesh! Just have an extra strap in the back. Have some spaghetti straps. So, really, Ashley Cain in the short program – she had really bad flesh, and it just drove me crazy. Conversely, in the short program, Gracie Gold had flesh, matched her skin perfectly – good for her. Second thing that I really hate is the gloves. I understand some skaters have to wear them because they practice in it, and it feels really good. But the Jeremy Abbott glove in the long program, or in his short program – he didn’t need it, didn’t add anything to it. Do not wear gloves. It cuts off the line and makes it look like you’re Russian. It’s not cute, don’t do it. And over-the-boot tights. This is not 2001. Like, we went through that phase, the late ‘90s, the early 2000s – it’s 2013. Wear white skates, polish them, and this is what my sister was saying. Okay, I was watching the free dance yesterday. These women – I understand, you wanna wear your hair down like Meryl, who’s that other beautiful girl from Michigan, they got second.

Miki: Tessa?

Dave: Oh, Madison Chock.

Jenny: Madison Chock. Beautiful! I have to get into her dress. That one dress was not okay. But you know, you wanna wear your hair down. The wispies! It’s called hairspray! That one girl had a rip in her tights. Like, this is nationals! Polish your skates. Do not have a heart on your skate – like, it looks like it’s dirty. Polish it, have – steam your dress. And if you’re gonna wear a dress, don’t wear a practice dress. That white dress from Madison – it was two sizes too small on her. There were no sparkles that you could see from far away. It didn’t look good. What was this thing around her – her neck? Like, dress up! This is nationals, like you have to look put together! You – it just, that was really a big pet peeve. So the gloves, the over-the-boot tights, and the flesh color. All [inaudible].

Dave: I think Meryl Davis just deserves a lifetime achievement award for just looking great and classy and always having an expensive-looking dress. I feel like Jenny probably didn’t like it…

Jenny: I didn’t like it either of them! I hated the ponytail.

Dave: I hate the short dress. The Giselle looks really cheap-looking. Like it looks like a…

Jenny: It looks like a dance recital dress.

Dave: But, like, a bad dance recital. Like, she wasn’t performing with ABT. It was kind of held in the high school gym. But I think, you know, like…

Jenny: And the ponytail!

Dave: I was in dance recitals in the high school gym, I can say that, okay? But like, I think that Meryl always looks classy and that she holds it together, and she always is consistent, and I think like – Jeremy Abbott’s her close friend, like she needs to tell him that when you wear gloves like that, like, you look like KD Lang! Like, if you were wearing a tuxedo, like, that’s just…

Miki: It really does look Russian, and I’m thinking – I do always think of Plushenko when I see anyone in gloves, even if it’s a lady skater. And I do not get – I mean, is it that their fingers are literally cold? I mean, how can they possibly think that looks good?

Jenny: I think it’s a textural thing. I don’t know if they’re – yeah, I agree – I don’t know if it’s they’re used to that or yeah.

Dave: It’s comforting because you practice with gloves on, so because you practice with gloves on to wipe the snot is first of all. That’s why the gloves are there. But second of all…

Jenny: But I’m sorry. If you can’t do a triple lutz without gloves on, you don’t deserve to be at nationals. Like, come on, do the gloves really add that much to, like your rotation and anything?

Dave: I think it’s like an OCD thing. If you don’t wanna change your feeling and, I don’t know, I just.

[Tim talks in the background]

Yeah, you have to practice your jumps with the gloves off, you know. [Tim talks again] Jenny: All I hear is mumbling. What did he say?

Dave: Tim is just saying that he always did – would run through his programs with his gloves off and that he makes his kids do it when… you cannot compete with gloves. It’s absurd, Tim is saying. It’s absurd!

Jenny: It’s absurd!

Miki: It’s absurd, it looks hideous. And I also hate when they don’t do the gloves but then they have – okay, so their costume ends, and then there’s arm, and then there’s like a weird cuff. What is that!

Jenny: What is that! Or they have the thing that goes around the middle finger and just a little bit of, like, sequins here. Because, you know, we all wear that every day on our hands. We have like some weird lace on our hands.

Miki: Is it like a wrist corsage? What’s going on?

Jenny: Going to prom?

Dave: I think – the cheapest looking dresses always, what Miki was talking about, they have, like, a really off pastel colored bodice, and then the arms are always that Lauren Shien, like, Nicole Bobek dress that always had, like, the fake flesh tone that doesn’t match your skin, and then you have rhinestones on it, which basically look like arm pimples in HD. Like, it looks like you need Pro-Active on your arms! It’s not an attractive look – no one’s arms sparkle like that! They don’t, like it’s…

Jenny: They don’t. Okay, guys, so let’s wrap things up here. Final thought – we’re gonna start with you, Miki. Final thought of what you saw throughout the week last night. You go ahead.

Miki: I need me some – I just have to – we just need to, like, within the – between the three of us, we need to somehow give birth to better skaters and wait like sixteen years. That’s our only option.

Dave: I think honestly at this point, the best thing that could happen to skating would be to put on CSPAN, you know, like so there’s no one…

Miki: So, we put it like at, with like Senate confirmation hearings and we’re just like…

Dave: Yes! I think that they could vote – like, have they vote the Senate. Like, that’s basically how interesting skating is to watch right now. And I think, like – at least politics is interesting. You could see like Nancy Pelosi like “working.” Like, skating, like, it’s just – it’s dead. And I think that – well, maybe it needs to die before things will change because everyone is trying to act like the sky isn’t falling. And I think the sky already fell, and it’s just plummeting further, you know? And…

Miki: Addiction where you have to hit rock bottom, right?

Dave: I – yeah, but like skating, it’s not even addiction hitting rock bottom. It’s like a Lindsay Lohan crash course where, like – I thought we had hit several times ago, like, I thought that we had hit bottom, girl, like, you know. And I think that’s the state of skating. Like, it hit bottom, it’s bouncing. It did Liz and Dick, and people then saw it, and it’s bouncing further. It’s so…

Miki: And now we’re just digging even further.

Dave: Well, my bottom – my final thought is that if the skaters who spent their lives devoting to training, you know, for a sport like this – aren’t watching, aren’t even bothering to see shows that don’t exist and aren’t interested, why should anyone else be? The people who spent their lives dedicating themselves to this sport don’t care and have given up? Why should anyone else pretend otherwise?

Jenny: I completely agree. And I think, my thought is – as a skater, my heart goes out to these guys because it’s so hard to train all season and to work so hard and to feel like people are laughing at your sport. They’re laughing at what you do, that it’s not appreciated. And the skaters still have it. It’s still there, they’re still working. But this new system – it continues to knock them down. It’s impossible to really gain momentum with this system. So I think we have to have to go back to 6.0 or something more similar to that. We need to know who these judges are, we need to like have judge number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or at an international competition, USA judge, da da da – that’s part of the fun of the sport. Go back to the 6.0. Take out all these contortionist acrobatic stuff. Let skaters skate. The skaters work so hard, bring back somebody – let’s find out their personalities. Let’s get on board on who these skaters are. Get skating back on TV, and I really think that it goes down to US Figure Skating. They need to fight the ISU. They need to start to push back for the 6.0 system. They need to be advocates for their athletes, they need to like, get us out there. Let’s not – and don’t charge us to watch figure skating on IceNetwork! It really bothers me!

Dave: They should be paying us, at the end of the day, to watch… no, it’s not, like, there’s no audience, so why pay, you know?

Jenny: I agree, and there’s so many fans, we still love the sport. The sport is beautiful, but it’s so sad.

Dave: I think what’s hilarious is that I – I have a friend who works for Prudential. And they’re now sponsoring figure skating. And he sits in the meetings, and he doesn’t let them know that he’s a huge skating fanatic and has been for years because he likes just listening to them. And they think that Prudential chose to – apparently this, allegedly, Kathy Griffin allegedly, they chose to sponsor skating because they think that it has a widespread African-American audience, which I think is just…

Jenny: WHAT?

Dave: So, they think that black people really like figure skating! So…

Jenny: We just interviewed Debi, and it did not – yeah, her opinions did no coincide with that. That’s interesting.

Dave: I think it’s very interesting. You know, like, why would someone choose to sponsor figure skating? I remember one year, cancer.net sponsored Skate America, and I just referred to it as “Cancerous Skate America” because it was just that bad. Like, it was the pants. So…

Jenny: Well, I just – I think this is a conversation that unfortunately we’re probably going to continue to have leading up to the Games next year. But Miki, thank you so much for joining us.

Dave: Yes, thanks so much for..

Miki: Yes! This was so fun!

Jenny: This was so fun! This was fun, and thank you, guys, for tuning in, watching The Skating Lesson. We’ll be back later this week – we’re gonna post our Debi Thomas interview, which we conducted last Friday, so you can look for that. Hope you guys enjoyed – enjoyed the competition, enjoyed the men today, can’t wait to watch, we’ll be tweeting up a storm. And thank you to Kevin Kwasneski for our amazing graphics. And you can always find…

Dave: And thanks…

Jenny: Yeah, I just keep talking, cut it, because I was waiting for you to cut in, Dave! Dave: Thanks for everyone for watching, you know, I think we’re all just a little bit spent today, but as always, we’d like to remind you to hold an edge…

Jenny: You can join me on this, Miki.

All three together: And look sexy! Bye, guys!