2 People Downtown
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U U. 2 people downtown 2.1 FAMILIES AND CHILDREN McAfee: Looking at this particular area in the down Oberlander: This could be a chance to town, I tend to think it is a somewhat romantic notion recognize Mr. Moir who has been very patiently waiting--member of the Vancouver to expect large numbers of families with children, School Board. You are certainly a part of a network which goes well beyond the down particularly with school-age youngsters, to be able to town and to some degree the stitching relates to whatever the School Board is up afford to choose this area over other parts of the city. to. Moir: Mr. Chairman, I just couldn’t help If I was looking at family housing policy, I don’t think noticing that in these three very excellent presentations, there is no mention of the that I need to have a child on every block in the city. children, particularly as we come from a system that has lost over 2,100 students a I would rather see the rest of the city be the areas year for over ten years. We’re continuing to decline, at a rate of 1,800 to 1,900 that we focus families in, and that even if we’re students a year, and my question is, “How important are the children to the talking about the ‘single-mother’ on social assistance population mix in the urban core?” “Are they important, and if so what should be or very modest income, requiring quite heavy government done to ensure that this happens in the redevelopment?” subsidies, we would probably be better to look for smaller scattered housing sites, in areas that are already schooled, rather than trying to put a few token youngsters in this area, and then see the problems of having to equip ferry systems across False Creek in order to get to schools on the south shore; or have the six- or eight-year o!ds trotting along down Denman Street and Davie Street into the West End in order to get to the existing schools. I didn’t discuss children, primarily because I’m not sure that it really does us a service in terms of dollars to try to put a lot of youngsters in this area. I’d rather focus my policy activity on children, which I agree with you we should be looking at very seriously, but outside this very L downtown inner city core, whether we are talking about those who can afford it or those who cannot. SR 2.2 SUBSIDIES FOR DOWNTOWN RESIDENTS McAfee: I would like to touch on another facet of involvement of senior governments, and that is the issue of funding for people who might want to live in the downtown but are unable to afford this luxury. I think I should clarify the impression that I might have given. I was not insinuating that families should not live downtown, I can show you many, many families who would very much like to live in the downtown. Unfortunately they do not have the effective finances rto do so. We have evaluated the kind of subsidies that might be necessary to encourage my secretary to move into the downtown with her two children, and we would likely be talking somewhere in the order of $600 - $700 per month subsidy to have a modest wage-earning secretary living in the downtown core. I might point out that the only level of government at the moment, senior government, prepared to put funding into family housing is CMHC, but even their funding will not bring private market land in the inner city core down to an affordable price. The economics just do not work. The Provincial government feels that family housing is not their responsibility and no funding is forthcoming. So I’m tossing out on the table a dilemma. It may be delightful to have families with children in the down town, but if the family requires this kind of six to r seven hundred dollar per month subsidy, are we better off to take our limited subsidy dollars and put them in -j 10 f -. The provision of facilities Such as tne West End Coniimnity Centre requires a large population and use of valuable land. Is this realistic for the Downtown? j v ?. pbTh. 4. 0W3 1i1• i•wc fl 60 $700 chunks per family per month in the downtown, or should we consider less expensive land somewhere else, where we could help maybe two families? That is the dilemma we are facing, and it is not that it would not fl be nice to have a mixture of kiddies, and certainly there is no reason why the units there can not be very well designed for children, it’s just that there exists a heavy economic expenditure of public monies.. I don’t see those monies on the table yet. Ford: In the case of the Downtown East Side you say that approximately 2,000 people have traditionally lived there over the years. It is worth while to give a sizeable subsidy to keep those people there because we would not want to disrupt their lives. But when you consider a subsidy to get your ‘drop-out’ friends down H there, you would have to look at how this might be done, because if you want to subsidise people in the downtown, we want people who are working, not people who are not going to work. That subsidy is not going to solve many :.r: of their problems. If subsidies are going to attract - other people downtown, we really do not need to subsidise the downtown. Ross: Mr. Chairman, I was listening to Dr. McAfee talking earlier and she projects 15 million additional square feet of office space in the downtown area. Dividing that by 100 we have a working population of 150,000 people. They may as well live down there, because they will never get in and outs Turner: To get people downtown, means that we are going to see them in groups, and therefore we are going to deal with the West End and the 38,000 people living there, and other pockets of residential activity that will be generated. 61 ______ rfk . J 2.3 STREETS Freschi: If there were streets, if the City could commit itself, to some streets and areas, then I believe that even loft warehouses, could be family accomodation, of a very exclusive kind, as well as lower incomes. What we don’t have at the moment is a willingness to consider mixed use in buildings, offices we have no urban design plan for some (nder: Incidentally, your numbers and so on, which are fascinating, are not necessarily to be reasonable pedestrian streets for the the result of changes in the physical form, streets it’s a demographic fact that Western Canada aged and children, and that’s one of the things that’s I is going in this direction and while it’s going rapidly in the City, even the suburbs -i are now heading into a similar situation, really missing. which ten years ago, nobody would have anticipated. Despite the fact that the gures were all there. Whatever street it is, whichever street. Waisman: I was in Amsterdam about a week and a half ago, the city was real. I keep forgetting the magic of walking down a street and seeing a mixture of trees and cars, children and people, warehouses and stores, houses and commercial establishments - the very fabric that makes a city what it is. We are so absolutely pure here and dull and uninteresting - and not necessarily safe, and I often wonder if we sometimes get a little too much planning. The opportunity to have children is a very personal thing, so I was rather fascinated by the ideas you threw in there... if we could somehow develop that openness at City Hall. Turner: Functions even in Amsterdam are gregarious. When you look carefully at Amsterdam, you will find there is a great deal of stratification. As a tourist we enjoy Amsterdam and it feels very vibrant, but when you look at it very carefully there are certain groups of shops always together, certain groups of housing 62 The drama and action of the streets of Gastown corpare with the coldness on Georgia Street. J 63 always together, we feel the jumble, we’re not really used to reading the local socio-economic patterns. My office is in the Old City in Jerusalem, again, people say how vibrant it is, yet I look at it and I can tell you it is very clearly stratified. No planner came along and consciously designed it that way, but that is how it works now. We need to bring back the vibrance, but not by copying Amsterdam. Dairymple: I would just like to comment on the quality of the street as Bruno Freschi was suggesting. I was recently doing some preliminary design work on a Hotel in Chinatown for conversion for DERA--.for low cost housing for elderly people. The Chinatown ‘rules’ say that you have to provide Urban Form commercial uses on the ground floor, with the Street High-density developments generate a sense active. You have to build within that neighbourhood in of visual excitement in the Central Area. At the same time they introduce concerns on the manner that people already use the Street, the such matters as obstruction of views, over shadowing of other buildings and public neighbourhood, and the buildings; it is a wonderful mix spaces, disrespect for established neighbour hood character, and questions of human of use.