Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 31 MAY 1978

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Address in Reply [31 MAY 1978] Ministerial Statement 1311

"I pray that the blessings of Almighty God may rest upon your counsels. "JAMBS RAMSAY, "Governor."

PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table:- Order in Council under the Justices Act 1886-1977. Regulations under- Bills of Sale and Other Instruments Act 1955-1971. Contractors' Trust Accounts Act 1974. Co-operative and Other Societies Act 1967-1978. Elections Act 1915-1976. Liquor Act 1912-1976.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ------ANCIENT ORDER OF FORESTERS' FRIENDLY WEDNESDAY, 31 MAY 1978 SoCIETY Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minis­ ter for Health) (11.4 a.m.): I would draw Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. E. H. Houghton, the attention of honourable members to the Redcliffe) read prayers and took the chair statement in "The Courier-Mail" of 30 May at 11 a.m. 1978 concerning the Ancient Order of For­ esters' Friendly Society in Queensland and to the interim statement made by my col­ ADDRESS IN REPLY league the Honourable the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General on 30 March PRESENTATION AND ANSWER this year. Mr. SPEAKER: I have to inform the The newspaper article drew attention to House that, accompanied by honourable the fact that the person appointed by the members, I this day presented to His Excel­ trustees to administer the society's affairs, lency the Governor the Address of the Mr. K. B. Cooper, had tendered his resigna­ Legislative Assembly, adopted by this House tion. The report also indicated that the on 18 May, in reply to His Excellency's trustees of the society had themselves resigned Opening Speech, and that His Excellency has as well. been pleased to make the following reply- "Government House, As statements have been made by Mr. "Brisbane, 31st May, 1978. Cooper, I feel it is important that the public and, indeed, members of the society are "Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen, made fully aware of the position of the "As the representative of Her Majesty Government and the Registrar of Friendly the Queen, I tender to you and the members Societies in this matter. of the Parliament of Queensland, my sincere thanks for the Address in Reply to the Mr. Cooper is reported to have said that Speech which I had the honour to deliver in order to comply with the requirements at the Opening of Parliament on March 29 of the Friendly Societies Act it was neces­ last. sary for approval to be considered by the Registrar of Friendly Societies to allow him "It will be my pleasant duty to convey to pay the costs and expenses necessary to to Her Majesty the Queen the expression continue the operation of the society. If of continued loyalty and affection to the this was approved, moneys would be drawn Throne and Person of Her Majesty Queen from the "State Benefit Funds" of the Elizabeth II from the members of the Legis­ society. Mr. Cooper went on to say that lature of Queensland in Parliament assembled. the Registrar of Friendly Societies took the "The Queen is the unifying centre for view that he could not authorise the expendi­ the peoples of the Commonwealth of Nations, ture from the State Benefit Funds unless and a sign to the world of our faith in he knew the financial position of the various freedom. benefit funds concerned. Mr. Cooper claimed that this had led to a "deadlock "I trust that your labours to promote the situation" which appeared incapable of advancement and prosperity of this great resolution and further administration State will meet with success in full measure. appeared impossible. 1312 Questions Upon Notice [31 MAY 1978] Questions Upon Notice

I wish to make it quite clear to the (3) What are the names of the police­ House that at all times the registrar has men involved in each case and what action acted in a most responsible manner. If the has been taken to recover the money that registrar had authorised the payment of has mysteriously disappeared? moneys from benefit funds at this time, when, to use Mr. Cooper's own words the financial Answers:- records of the society were in a "chaotic (1) An amount of $29,292 was stolen state", it would have been a most irrespon­ and $26,005 recovered when the bandit sible exercise of the discretionary powers was subsequently located and detained approximately two hours after the com­ given to him under the Friendly Societies mission of the offence. During this period Act. Advice has also been sought from he changed vehicles and his movements senior counsel, who has confirmed the have not been fully traced. Police inquiries correctness of the attitude and decision made have been made at banks and other by the registrar. financial institutions with a view to locating the whereabouts of the missing money. Mr. Cooper also suggested that members However, to date such inquiries have been of the society should contact the registrar unsuccessful. with respect to the future of this society and with respect to ·the matter of payment of (2) I am unable to locate any record contributions, mortgage payments and claims concerning the "Woodridge drug raid" as for benefits. It must be made perfectly clear referred to. However, should the honour­ that the registrar is not in a position nor able member be in a position to supply has he the responsibility to advise members some more pertinent details of the matter with respect to any of these matters. The I will arrange for further inquiries to be society belongs to the members of the society made. and ·the future of the society lies with mem­ (3) No. See answers to (1) and (2). bers of the society. Steps will need to be taken for members to determine the future 2. PERMANENT BUILDING SoCIETIES of the society. The registrar has advised me, and I accept this advice, that the appropriate Mr. K. 1. Hooper, pursuant to notice, procedure to occur would be for members asked the Minister for Justice and Attorney­ of the society to convene a meeting and to General- arrange for decisions to be taken calculated (1) Is he aware that figures issued to protect the interests of all concerned. recently by the Australian Bureau of The Government is of course very con­ Statistics show that, in relation to total cerned that the trustees of this society have assets, the expenses rate of Queensland attempted to resign in such a peremptory permanent building societies in 1976-77 was manner. The registrar has written to each half as high again as those in New South Wales and Western Australia, the relevant of the trustees pointing out to them that they figures for expenses other than interest and have responsibilities with respect to the dividends being 2.19 per cent for Queens­ property vested in them and with respect to land, 1.51 per cent for Western Australia the persons having an interest in the funds of and 1.44 per cent for New South Wales? which they are trustees. The present problems of this society are essentially domestic and (2) Is he aware that, •as the costs of have impact primarily upon members and building societies are borne by the bor­ creditors; the public at large is not affected. rowers, who pay interest, the total interest I am sure that honourable members will be paid by Queensland borrowers in 1976-77 aware that societies of this type operate in was about $6,000,000 more than they the commercial market-place. It is therefore would have had to pay if the expenses rate the view of rthe Government that ·in unfortu­ had been in line with the lower figures in nate situations such as this in this par­ other States? ticular s·ociety, commercial considerations and determinations of action must apply and (3) What steps is he prepared to take be followed. as a matter of urgency to require Queens­ land societies to operate more economically and thus reduce the unnecessarily heavy QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE burden on home buyers, with particular reference to proportionately higher 1. PROCEEDS OF AsHGROVE BANK ROBBERY management fees, apparently being pay­ AND WOODRIDGE DRUG RAID ments made to service companies associa­ ted with the directors of some societies? Mr. K. J. Hooper, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Mines, Energy and (4) As contracts with service companies Police-- associated with directors of societies was (1) With reference to the recent shooting one of the matters of concern referred of a bank robber, how much money was to in a report by a committee of the stolen from the Ashgrove Bank and how Australian Society of Accountants prepared much was recovered? some time ago, will he table that report and indicate what steps are being taken (2) Is $15,000 now missing after the to rectify this and other problem areas W oodridge drug raid? covered in that report? Questions Upon Notice [31 MAY 1978] Questions Upon Notice 1313

(5) Can he explain why directors' fees (5) The amount of directors' fees pay­ in Queensland are over $11,000 per society able by building societies is one that is compared with about $6,500 in New South determined solely by the members of each Wales, despite the fact that the average society in general meeting. size of New South Wales societies is As is the usual practice, legislation is larger? being continually reviewed and if found necessary, amendments to legislation Answers:- relating to building societies will be introduced. (1 & 2) In comparing permanent build­ ing societies in Queensland with those that operate in such other States as New South 3. MAINTENANCE OF HoUSING COMMISSION Wales and Western Australia, certain HoMES, W AVELL HEIGHTS AND CHERMSIDE external factors have bearing on costs of Queensland societies which are not rele­ Mr. Austin, pursuant to notice, asked the vant to the same degree in other States. Minister for Works and Housing- Four examples which tend to cause differ­ (!) Is he aware that some of the entials in costs are:- Housing Commission houses in the Wavell (a) the geographic spread of societies Heights and Chermside area are in need in Queensland, the decentralised nature of general maintenance work and painting? of operations and lack of population (2) What proposals does his department density compared with New South have for a continuing maintenance pro­ Wales and Western Australian societies; gramme in this area? (b) the additional 0.25 per cent com­ pulsory contributions to a contingency Answer:- fund established to protect the interests (1 & 2) The Housing Commission has a of members, depositors and creditors continuous, cyclical maintenance pro­ of building societies which is not opera­ gramme carried out in three phases­ tive in other States. If this contribution carpentry followed by plumbing and alone is taken into account, the rate of repainting. Current repainting contracts expenses for Queensland, other than cover 31 houses in the area and a further interest and dividends, is less than that 54 houses are under carpentry mainten­ applicable to Victoria and South ance. This will be followed by plumbing Australia; and painting. For houses under purchase, (c) a relatively high cost factor in the buyer not the commission is res­ obtaining financial facilities as a result ponsible for maintenance. of problems that occurred in the financial year 1976-1977 in Queensland and which 4. GRANTS FOR URBAN TRANSPORT SERVICES have since been successfully overcome; and Mr. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Transport- (d) a lesser relative size which would not permit of the same economy of scale (!) In view of the recently announced in operating expenses. details of the Commonwealth Government's $300,000,000 grant over five years for (3 & 4) Officers of the Corporate Affairs urban public transport improvements, what Office are presently examining the structure are {he provisions of this grant ,in respect of building societies. Building societies in of disbursement to Queensland, and in Queensland are required by existing legisla­ what manner have the State's special tion to make greater disclosure in accounts needs been demonstrated? forwarded to their members and in public (2) As Cairns is designated in the documents filed in the office of the registrar announced cities as being eligible for assis­ of building societies than are other incorpo­ tance under the programme, how will this rated bodies, for example management money be disbursed and what amounts will company charges, secretarial fees and be allocated to Cairns? property expenses. (3) Is he aware that the Common­ Members of these societies are thus wealth Minister for Transport, Mr. Nixon, placed in a more advantageous position stated that the legislation would not pre­ than shareholders and creditors of other clude projects to assist private operators in corporate bodies. The report by a com­ such provincial cities to maintain and mittee of the Australian Society of improve local urban transport services? Accountants was not a report to me and (4) How will the new programme assist therefore will not be tabled. to finance these pressing public require­ The matter of management service com­ ments? pany contracts and other aspects referred to in that report is receiving detailed Answers:- examination. Officers of the Corporate ( I) The Commonwealth Government has Affairs Office have been requested to indicated that it will provide to the States expedite this examination and to furnish a $300,000,000 over the next five years for report at the earliest possible date. urban public transport improvements. Out 1314 Questions W"ithout Notice [31 MAY 1978] Questions Without Notice

of this sum $40,000,000 per annum has Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The answer to been divided among the States and Queens­ the honourable member's question is this: land's share of this amount will be the environmental impact study made by $7,000,000 per annum. Mr. Iwasaki was completed and was accept­ The remaining $20,000,000 per annum able to the Queensland Government. It was is to be divided among the States annually then referred to Canberra. Canberra asked on the basis of need. several further questions, minor questions. I think the matters to which they related Members will be aware that under the are almost finalised now. That is what Mr. terms of the previous Commonwealth Iwasaki was making reference to when he States Grants (Urban Public Transport) said the study was not completed. The firm Act 1974, the State embarked on an exten­ concerned in the preparation of the docu­ sive programme of improvements to urban ments had to answer those questions. As public transport. The ongoing programme far as the Queensland Government is con­ to complete this work involves a commit­ cerned, the matter is finished; as far as the ment substantially greater than the Federal Government is concerned, it is nearly $7,000,000 already allocated and strong finished and will be completed shortly. representations have been made to the Mr. Burns: What about an opportunity for Federal Minister indicating Queensland's us to see the plan? need for a substantial share of the remain­ ing $20,000,000. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: That is a priv­ ate matter for Mr. Iwasaki. He is, after all, (2) The States Grants (Urban Public dealing with the Queensland Government. Transport) Act 1974 confined assistance to While he is dealing with Governments he the Brisbane Statistical Division. Although does not want to throw open to the world the Commonwealth Minister for Transport documents that are being dealt with by those has indicated his willingness to be more Governments. They have the first responsi­ flexible in the allocation of funds, it is bility. What Mr. Iwasaki does after that unlikely that an extension of the areas is naturally his business. The Queensland attracting expenditure to places such as Government is 100 per cent satisfied and Cairns will be contemplated when funds 100 per cent behind the project. for even the existing programme are not yet assured. As yet negotiations with the Commonwealth have not been finalised AURUKUN AND MORNINGTON ISLAND and a review might be possible at a later ABORIGINAL COMMUNITIES; CLAIMS BY date. SENATOR BoNNER (3 & 4) I am aware that the Common­ Mr. GOLEBY: I ask the Minister for wealth Minister has indicated that the Aboriginal and Island Affairs: As it has been legislation would not preclude projects to suggested that the Minister for Local Gov­ assist private operators but whilst I am ernment and Main Roads should be called sympathetic to their requirements, the to the Bar of Federal Parliament for having extent to which their needs can be met stated that Senator Bonner is an unmitigated from this particular legislation is bound to liar, is it a fact that the Minister was in be conditioned by the availability of error in denying Senator Bonner's claims? Commonwealth funds. Mr. PORTER: Although my colleague the Minister for Local Government and Main QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Roads is of fragile build and a very retiring disposition, he is usually able to protect IWASAKI ToURIST PROJECT AT YEPPOON himself. So in giving an answer to this question I am not protecting him. Mr. BURNS: I have a question without notice to the Premier. I refer to reports in If I remember rightly, over the past five "The Courier-Mail" of Saturday 27 May years up till 31 March, the reserves ·at that Mr. Iwasaki, when briefing Australian Aurukun and Mornington Island cost this journalists in Japan, said that the environ­ Government just on $3,000,000. That money mental study for his Yeppoon tourist resort was paid from our Consolidated Revenue. had not yet been completed, and that he In dealing with the facts, my colleague had been pushing for completion of the was totally correct and the senator was study, and he also said that he expected totally incorrect. I hope that that was due the completion of the study this month. As to his ignorance. this statement of Mr. Iwasaki conflicts with With reference to telecasts, I want to the Premier's statement reported in the same say that last week I took part in one with article in the same paper that the study the senator. It had an audience. It was had been done, that it had been approved by a matter of very deep personal dismay and the Queensland Government and it had been distress to me that the senator, who has sent to the Federal Government, can he been a personal friend and colleague for advise what is the true state of play as far many more years than he has appeared to a~ this study is concerned, and will he use his be an opponent, should there appear ranged good offices with Mr. Iwasaki to allow the not only against this Government and his completed environmental study to be made own Federal Government but also fairly public so that the people of Queensland can and squarely alongside militant black activist read and study it? groups. It is a matter of great distress. Questions Without Notice [31 MAY 1978] Questions Without Notice 1315

AMENDMENT OF STAT£ AND REGIONAL 1977. The matters raised in that report PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, PUBLIC WORKS were brought to the attention of the board ORGANIZATION AND ENVIRONMENTAL at that time by staff members. Many of CONTROL ACT the actions necessary to correct these prob­ Mr. JONES: In the absence of the Premier, lems were undertaken immediately. The I refer the Deputy Premier to the decision honourable member brought many of the to abolish regional co-ordination councils and problems to my attention when I visited the positions of regional co-ordinator, such Palm Island with him. It has been very as that held by Mr. Glen Sanderson in distressing to members and to the hospital Townsville, and ask him: Does the Govern­ board that inaccurate statements should be ment intend to amend the State and made on the basis of a report that is some Regional Planning and Development, Public 12 months old. Works Organization and Environmental Con­ trol Act this session? I assure the honourable member that the matters referred to have certainly caused me Mr. KNOX: It is the practice in this great concern because of their inaccuracy House never to make announcements on and because of their dependence on an old legislation in answer to questions. report. I refute that the statements are in fact correct at the present time. I applaud the action of the staff on Palm Island. VACANCIES IN PREMIER'S DEPARTMENTS I applaud the action of the board in having these matters rectified. The few outstanding Mr. .JONES: Again in the absence of the problems, which are not causing the staff Premier, I refer the Deputy Premier to a great concern at the moment, are in the recent issue of the Queensland Government process of being rectified. Directory and ask him: Is he aware that the foilowing positions are unfilled, and that officers are only acting in them:- Deputy Under Secretary, Premier's PARA ENERGY RESEARCH AND THE COLLEGE OF Department; EsOTERIC SciENCE Assistant Under Secretary (State Affairs); Dr. LOCKWOOD: I ask the Minister for Assistant Under Secretary (Federal Health: Has he received any complaints or Affairs); information about Para Energy Research Senior Administration Officer (Federal and the College of Esoteric Science follow­ Affairs); ing my speech in the debate on Matters of Senior Administration Officer (State Public Interest? What investigations into Affairs); and Para Energy Research and the College of Secretary to Cabinet? Eso1eric Science have been undertaken and what were the re:;ults of those investigations? Can the Deputy Premier advise when some­ thing will be done to have permanent Dr. EDWARDS: My attention was dravm appointments made to these extremely senior to the speech made in this House by the positions? honourable member a week or so ago, in which he made constant reference to the Mr. KNOX: Is the honourable member claims being made by that group. Reports referring to the publication "Queensland have been made to me over a long period Government Directory 77"? I see that about this matter and certain investigations people have been appointed acting in those have been undertaken. I have referred the positions. No doubt the positions will be matter to the National Health and Research filled in the normal course. If they have Medical Council for further observation. As not been advertised they will be advertised recently as this week, there arrived in my where necessary, and officers will be office a statutory declaration-and I will appointed. table a copy of it in the Parliament today, for the information of honourable members­ relating to some of the statements and claims PALM IsLAND HOSPITAL REPORT made by that group. Mr. ROW: I ask the Minister for Health: It is very distressing to me and to the Is he aware of a front-page headline in the community in general-! know it is distress­ Townsville "Advertiser" of Wednesday, 24 ing to honourable members--that wide May, implying a scandal at Palm Island claims are being made at the present time Hospital, which is in my electorate? What by unorthodox practitioners about medical are the implications of the newspaper article programmes that are claimed to relieve and has a report been received on the matter from the Townsville Hospital administrator? people who are suffering from disease. If ever there was a time in the history of this Dr. EDWARDS: My attention has been nation for criticism of programmes under drawn to the article to which the honourable which people are being defrauded continu­ member referred. I am very concerned that ously, I believe that it is now. I have made such articles should appear with so little the position of the Government quite clear­ basis. The report to which the newspaper and as Minister for Health I have made my documentation refers relates to a period in position quite clear-about unorthooox 1316 Questions Without Notice [31 MAY 1978] Questions Without Notice claims of treatment being offered by numer­ Branch files examined those of Liberal mem­ ous people in the community with no pro­ bers who were expected to support the fessional training and no professional under­ application of the Liberal member for Wind­ standing, whose major objective is to under­ sor concerning the Tarong/Millmerran issue? take financial rorts. Mr. KNOX: I believe that the honourable My advice to people throughout Queens­ member is making up these accusations. I land is to keep in contact with hospitals and have no knowledge of them whatsoever. medical practitioners to obtain their advice. If ,that is done, these problems will not be APPLICATION FoRM FOR FREIGHT REBATE ON faced by the community. I assure the honour­ STOCK SOLD FROM DROUGHT-DECLARED able member that I am very concerned, as PROPERTIES he is, about the claims made by that group. I assure him that investigations are continuing Mr. GLASSON: I ask the Minister for and that, as soon as I have a complete report, Transport: As there is some ambiguity I will certainly table it in the House and about elegibility of vendors for rail rebates refer it to the honourable member. from his department on stock sold from drought-declared properties, could he clarify the position regarding the completion of the NEW ZEALAND CONFERENCE; MINISTERIAL application form so as to rectify this uncer­ EXPENSES FOR NoN-PUBLIC SERVANTS tain situation which now exists? Mr. YEWDALE: In directing a question Mr. TOMKINS: I have had a lot of 'tO the Minister for Local Government and representation from various people on appli­ Main Roads, I refer to his trip to New cations for store stock rebate. Having had Zealand in February this year to attend the a look at the form, I find that the ambiguous special transport conference, which was also words read, "are fats or drought-stricken attended by his colleague the Minister for stock." This is not clear. I have discussed Transport (Hon. K. B. Tomkins). I now the matter with the Commissioner for Rail­ ways. I hope this suits the honourable ask: Can he advise whether anyone travelled member for Gregory. We have decided that, with him who was not employed under the instead of those words, we will use the words, Queensland Public Service Act and whether "are stock deteriorating in condition and any individual in that category had his ex­ which would not normally be sold at this penses to New Zealand and back charged time", and so on. That will make it very to the Minister's ministerial expenses? clear. Mr. HINZE: The short answer is, "No". It has always been the policy of the Queensland Government to give rebate to primary producers who have stock-cat~le ALLEGATION OF PREMIER'S THREATENED or sheep-in drought-declared areas. Qmte REPIUSALS AGAINST GOVERNMENT obviouslY the old form did not meet the MEMBERS desired "situation.

Mr. YEWDALE: Regrettably in the PITTSWORTH HOSPITAL absence of the Premier, I shall have to direct my next two questions without notice to the Mr. ELLIOTT: I ask the Minister for Deputy Premier and Treasurer. I refer to Health: Will he support the magnificent the proceedings in Parliament last night efforts of Pittsworth and district residents and ask the Deputy Premier and Treasurer in fund-raising to have the Pittsworth Hos­ if he is aware that the Premier summoned pital operating once again as a viable facil­ the honourable members for Mansfield and ity? Ithaca to his office last night and threatened both honourable members that if they voted Dr. EDWARDS: The Pittsworth Hospital in favour of the application by the honourable is a community hospital which is run by a member for Windsor for leave to move a very fine band of people in the Pittsworth motion on the Tarong/Millmerran issue, they district. It operated for some years, as the would be prosecuted for their activities in the honourable member would know, until diffi­ cashing of air travel warrants. culties arose with its financing. If I remem­ ber correctly, the State Government was Mr. KNOX: I know of no such incident involved in the provision of a large sum of and I suggest he discuss it behind the Speak­ money towards the construction of this hos­ er's chair with the honourable members con­ pital. It then closed for some years but, as cerned. a result of tremendous efforts made by the people of Pittsworth, supported ably by the honourable member, it has now been Mr. YEWDALE: I ask the Deputy Prem­ reopened. A large sum of money has been ier and Treasurer: In reference to the contributed by the local community for proceedings in Parliament last night, is he upgrading of the hospital and the development aware that the Premier was examining Special of its facilities for the people of Pittsworth. Branch reports on Liberal members, includ­ ing the honourable member for Salisbury, The Government has received submissions and was the file provided by the Commis­ from the honourable member for Cunningham sioner of Police, who spent some time in concerning the possible development of hos­ the House last night? Were the only Special pital faciiities in this area, but unfortunately Questions Without Notice [31 MAY 1978] Questions Without Notice 1317 it is very difficult for the Government to Following the ERVL study and a number comply with such requests because of the of spot checks by the department, it has widespread consequences of such a decision. become evident that this assumption is no However, I support the concern that he has longer valid. The ERVL study recommen­ expressed. Recently he made a further sub­ dations included an increase in the gross mass mission to me concerning ways and means by allowable for the general range of conform­ which it may be possible to provide some ing vehicles, although some six axle combina­ assistance for this hospital. I can assure him tions have been disadvantaged. that this submission will be closely examined and I shall report to him as quickly as possible. With the introduction of the amended regu­ lations, it is proposed to enforce the gross weight provisions of the regulations in view RO:AD TRANSPORT PERMITS of- Mr. ELLIOTT: I ask the Minister for Local (a) The overloading practices of some Government and Main Roads: Is he aware of operators in disregard of the regulations the regulations that apply to overlength and unless enforcement is practised. overload permits under which the former (b) The need for uniformity with other free permits now cost $25 for an individual States that have been enforcing the pro­ trip permit and $100 for a three-month per­ mit? Will he investigate this situation with a vision for some time. view to instigating a more realistic permit To allow industry time to adjust to this system? change in enforcement practice, warnings will be issued over a period of three months, Mr. HINZE: There is a lot of confusion in and after that period administrative toler­ this matter not only with my department but ances will be reduced to the agreed level. also with the Transport Department. It needs tidying up for the benefit of all concerned. A summation of all that simply means I ask the honourable member to put his ques­ that the department is working in co-opera­ tion on notice for tomorrow so that I can tion with operators at weighbridges and trying give a full answer. to get them to come into line. We have been a very tolerant and lenient Govern­ ENFORCEMENT OF PROVISIONS OF MAIN ROADS ment for a long period, but it is necessary REGULATION 71 (3) to act in conformity with other States so that there is not continual damage to bridges and Mr. AKERS: I ask the Minister for Local road surfaces. We are not going to upset Government and Main Roads: As many industry to the extent of insisting on off­ truck operators and owners in Queensland loading at weighbridges, and our officers have have purchased rigs and set contract charges been advised accordingly. on the basis of the Government's practice of not enforcing the provisions of Main Roads Regulation 71(3), and will therefore be sev­ SELLING OF LIVESTOCK, WARWICK erely disadvantaged financially by its enforce­ Mr. CASEY: I direct a question without ment at only short notice, will he give an notice to the Minister for Primary Industries. assurance that there will be a moratorium Did he recently open a new aid to livestock on enforcement similar to that applying to selling at Warwick and state that it would non-conforming vehicles under the new regu­ provide an excellent incentive to obtain lations, or will he have the regulations better live-weight prices for cattle? Is he amended to allow these operators to work aware that buyers from six meatworks legally under the same provision? immediately boycotted that facility and that, as a result, the first auction at the new Mr. HINZE: The Economics of Road facility was a great flop? As the people of Vehicle Limits (ER VL) study found that- Australia have clearly indicated in several The main purposes of an axle spacing/ referendums that they want the States to mass schedule is to regulate the loads on retain power to control prices and the bridges by preventing the use of heavily Queensland Meat Industry Organisation of loaded, relatively short vehicles. Marketing Authority has had the power to Controls on gross mass are needed, not set saleyard prices for cattle since last only for the protection of bridges, but for September, when is he going to take some safety and environmental considerations. real action to help the industry to obtain better cattle prices? Gross weight has always been limited by Main Roads Regulation 71(3) to the lesser of the Mr. SULUVAN: When I was a lad of sum of the allowable axle loads or as set about 15, my father advised me never to out in the extreme axle table. talk with authority on matters about which I was not well informed. Apparently the Mr. Burns: You couldn't remember all honourable member for Mackay did not get those numbers. similar advice from his father, or, if he Mr. HINZE: You wouldn't expect a com­ did, he did not heed it. plete reply from me off the cuff, Mr. Speaker. To answer the first part of the question­ So far as enforcement has been concerned, yes, I did open that sale. In the second the emphasis has been on axle loads on the part of his question the honourable member assumption that this action effectively con­ for Mackay says that the sale was boycotted. trolled gross weight. However, because there was the possibility 1318 Questions Without Notice [31 MAY 1978] Personal Explanation

that export buyers would not be operating, T.V. programme "This Today Tonight" in the agents advised the vendors not to bring which Mr. Paul Everingham of the Northern in heavyweight bullocks. Territory Assembly accused the Queensland It would seem that the honourable member Government of not giving Aborigines land for Mackay is trying to drive a wedge rights. He also commended the Federal Gov­ between the-- ernment for setting up in the Northern Terri­ tory land rights for Aborigines, which could Mr. Casey: It was reported in "The result in the occupancy of over 50 per cent of Courier-Mail". land rights in the Northern Territory by Mr. SULLIVAN: The honourable mem­ Aborigines. I ask: Does he see this as a direct ber for Mackay asked me a question. Does threat by way of an aparthied policy, sup­ he want me to answer it? posedly being directly opposed by the Prime Minister? Mr. Casey: Yes. Honourable Members interjected. Mr. PORTER: I think the gentleman in question surprised all his colleagues by com­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! ing onto a T.V. programme and making the statement that he did about favouring the Mr. SULLIVAN: As he apparently does provision of land rights. In the Northern not, I shall not proceed further. Territory very grave fears have been raised about the Commonwealth policies creating ANSWER TO ALLEGATION OF PREMIER'S an Aboriginal State which will divide the THREATENED REPRISALS AGAINST black people and the white people on a GOVERNMENT MEMBERS basis that promises tremendous troubles for that part of Australia and the whole of Aus­ Mr. KAUS: I direct a question to the tralia. The Queensland Government's policies Deputy Premier and Treasurer: Is he aware on land rights are well known. We do not that neither I nor my colleague the honour­ believe in providing the Aboriginal people able member for Ithaca was in the Premier's of this State with rights to land that exceed office last night and that I have never had those accruing to any other person. Our with the Premier a conversation remotely attitude towards the indigenous people envis­ resembling the matter referred to by the ages their eventual integration in the whole honourable member for Rockhampton community, but at the pace that they desire North? while maintaining their own cultural identity. Mr. KNOX: I am grateful to the honour­ We believe that to be best not only for them able member for the answer that he pro­ but for the whole community, both in the vided in his question. As I have already indi­ present and the long term. cated, I am not aware of any circumstances Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted that would implicate him or his colleague. for questions has now expired. I think it is proper for a member who wishes to cast doubt upon the integrity of any other honourable member to do it in PERSONAL EXPLANATION the correct way. There is proper way in which an honourable member can deal with a Mr. MILLER (Ithaca) (12 noon), by leave: matter of that type. By innuendo the honourable member for Mr. Jones: Joh won't tell us the truth, Rockhampton North cast aspersions on the either. honourable member for Mansfield and me. I am very disappointed that the honourable Mr. KNOX: Honourable members are on member, who is coming back into the their honour to tell the truth when they rise Chamber now, made those two insinuations. to speak in the House. Firstly he said that the Premier called I have no doubt whatever about the integ­ the honourable member for Mansfield and rity of the two members, which the hon­ me into his office to stand over us to vote ourable member for Rockhampton North with the Government against the motion of question..s--no doubt whatever. If the hon­ the honourable member for Windsor last ourable member wishes by innuendo to cast night. I deny that charge. rne second doubts on their integrity he should do so charge was that we had cashed our travel in a manner that would enable them to vouchers. That I also deny. answer that innuendo in a man-to-man I think we have reached a pretty low fashion. It is time the public realised that ebb in this Parliament when members on about all Labor members do in this House either side ask questions in this Chamber is try to dig up dirt and rubbish instead of about another member when they have the applying themselves to the business of the opportunity of coming over and finding out Parliament. for themselves what the truth of the matter is. There could only be one reason for ABORIGINAL LAND RIGHTS, that question being asked-and that is NORTHERN TERRITORY political. It is quite obvious that the news media wiil print what is said, aild we all Mr. HARTWIG: In directing a question know that a little bit of mud will stick, to the Minister for Aboriginal and Island whether there is truth in the allegation or Affairs, I refer to a recent interview on the not. Matters ofPublic Interest [31 MAY 1978} Matters of Public Interest 1319

In my opinion it is a despicable act. How­ enough to seek to draw attention away from ever, Mr. Speaker, I invite the Premier of himself, and he will betray anyone and say Queensland to inform the House of the anything to achieve that end. That is number of air warrants that have been common knowledge. That is what caused issued to me and used over the past 12 years. all the trouble in this House today. Because That might answer the insinuation. What the Premier was defeated in the party room, worries me is that such a despicable action he is trying to get back at members of his can be contemplated in the Chamber when own party. He is prepared to say anything there is no truth in it and when it will to denigrate them to make sure he has the inevitably finish up in the media. He who numbers at today's party meeting. throws stones should make sure that he can do so without injuring himself. That Mr. Powell: Give us a few examples. is all I have to say at the moment. Mr. K. J. HOOPER: I will give the House a few examples. But let me say this, Mr. Speaker: when it comes to lurks and perks :l'viATTERS OF PUBLIC INTEREST and parliamentary privileges, it would be PREMIER'S EXPENDITURE OF GoVERNMENT impossible to find a more experienced hypo­ MoNEY crite than our Premier. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Mr. K. J. HOOPER (Archerfield) (12.2 p.m.): For the past fortnight the Premier Mr. K. J. HOOPER: While I hear my and his propaganda chief-his Press secretary colleagues' "Hear, hears", I can see from -have thrown a despicable shadow of sus­ the faces on the Government side that not picion over the integrity of every member very many members opposite are prepared of this House. We have just witnessed to deny it. the honourable member for Ithaca rise to his feet and say that he has been defamed. Mr. Gunn: You're not looking over here. I am saying quite categorically that the You're looking up in the air. Premier during the past fortnight has cast Mr. K. J. HOOPER: I am not looking up aspersions on the integrity of every member in the air. I am looking at the honourable of this House, not just the honourable member. member for Ithaca. Mr. Gunn: You're looking up at the Press. Mr. Houston: Other than the Ministers. Mr. K. J. HOOPER: For the past two Mr. K. J. HOOPER: Yes, and the Minis­ weeks the Premier has invited the public to ters. imagine that a few reasonable and overdue Mr. Houston: Other than the Ministers. parliamentary reforms will turn this Chamber into a gigantic travel bureau, with members Mr. K. J. HOOPER: Other than the Minis­ and their wives jet-setting backwards and ters. forward to the flesh-pots of the world. No member here or in any other State has It is time that we stopped copping it in ever dug his fingers deeper into the public this House and started making some of purse than the Premier. He is a past master the true facts known to the people of in perks. Queensland. The honourable member for Somerset can laugh. What he should be Mr. Powell: Prove it. doing is cheering the speech I am making, because I am trying to look after his rights Mr. K. J. HOOPER: I am proving it now. and entitlements against the power-drunk He is the most highly credentialled perfec­ Premier who is the leader of his party. tionist in free-loading techniques in this Par­ Every member of this House knows that the liament. This Premier, who now shakes in Premier is desperate--- horror at the thought of an airline voucher, has his own Government aircraft costing over Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I draw the hon­ $2,000 to maintain for an average eight hours' ourable member's attention to my ruling flying time each week. The plane gets bigger about reading speeches. I take it he is and better-and clearer as well-with each not going to read this speech? trade-in. It is quite obvious that, before the Premier's parliamentary career is over, he Mr. K. J. HOOPER: No, I am not reading will probably be flying a jet, the appropriate the speech. I have notes. name for which would be "Peanut One". It is like starting with a motor scooter and fin­ Mr. SPEAKER: Is he making it from ishing up with a Rolls Royce. That is the real copious notes? record of this man who puts himself forward as the virtuous defender of parliamentary Mr. K. J. HOOPER.: Yes. I am certainly democracy in this State. He is the only State not reading my speech. Premier with his own plane. Honourable mem­ bers on the other side of the House cannot Mr. SPEAKER: What about the one deny that. upstairs? The figures presented to this Parliament Mr. K. J. HOOPER: What I am saying, when it resumed in March reveal in extremely Mr. Speaker, is that every member of this vague detail that in the past three years this House knows that the Premier is desperate plane has been airborne for a total of only 1320 Matters of Public Interest [31 MAY 1978] Matters of Public Interest

1,386 hours and that number of hours repre­ But it is not only the Premier who has sents approximately 58 days. It is Australia's fared well. Some of his strange mates-and highest-paid, least-employed dole bludger. they are known in the business circles of this Most of its trips are confined to taxiing the city as the Scavenger Hill Gang-have cashed Premier and his wife between Brisbane and in handsomely on the Queensland bonanza. Kingaroy. The bankrupt Fancher got at least $11,000 and his American associate, Richard Todd, The Premier, who is so worried about the collected $13,000 for 10 days' work and com­ expenditure by his colleagues, has two Gov­ plained because there wasn't more! What ernment chauffeurs and two Government cars about the travel credits that Cabinet Ministers -one of each stationed in Kingaroy for the have been able to build up and pass from one transport of his wife. I am told from a reliable year to the next, the colour television set pro­ source that an imported Volvo was not good vided for his Press secretary, the plane I am enough for Mrs. Bjelke-Petersen so she sent told he got from Gene Goff (his partner in it back to the motor pool for something the oil share fiddle) and the overseas holidays bigger and better. at public expense for Sir Douglas Fraser after Last year this opponent oT parliamentary each gerrymander takes place in this State? travel was a guest, together with his wife and his rat pack, in the palaces of the shahs What does concern me is that I have been and sheikhs of the Middle East. That is true informed from diplomatic circles that we also and he cannot deny it. This year-only two paid the account for one Japanese trip while months ago-the haunt of the Premier and the Premier enjoyed a night in the Junee his gang was the mixed bathing dens of Club, which I am told is a very sleazy night­ Iwasaki in Japan. They spent considerable club in Tokyo. I can assure honourable mem­ time at his bathing resorts. Imagine the bers that the members of the parliamentary sight-giggling schoolgirls at ope end of the delegation will not be going anywhere near pool, rubbery Japs at the other end and the that night-club. Premier dog-paddling in the middle. The mind For the few minutes I have left, I turn to boggles. The taxpayers met the bill for both the Government's payments to barristers and junkets and the Parliament has not heard a solicitors. I find that the Premier's personal report. solicitors, Morris Fletcher & Cross, received $123,267 in the past three years. I might add There is far more to come. Honourable that they are also Iwasaki's legal advisers. members will recall the "Joh Show"-the The expatriate Professor O'Connell, formerly Premier's monthly publicity programme that of Oxford University and another of the was dropped because it was frightening young Scavenger Hill Gang, has earned just under children who were watching it throughout $100,000 in the same period for telling the the State. Large numbers of parents com­ Government how to lose cases in the High plained to the T.V. channels that their kids Court. could not sleep at night after watching the episodes. In 1976-77 an estimated $180,000 Whilst on the subject of payments to was provided for this venture but in reality barristers and solicitors, I might mention $207,000 or $4,000 a week was spent within that the latest list shows that the "Minister eight or nine months. for Maps" is still there with his greasy, greedy fingers in the till to the extent of $73. This This year the miscellaneous and incidental greedy, grasping member-- expenses of his office are expected to touch the $500,000 mark. All I can say is that there Mr. GREENWOOD: I rise to a point of must be plenty of incidentals because the order. I ask the honourable member to amount allocated to this single item of expen­ withdraw that statement. The matter of diture is nine times the amount spent on the $73 was explained last year. office of the Leader of the Opposition. So it can readily be seen who is the one in Queens­ Mr. K. J. HOOPER: Well, hand it back. land who is abusing the so-called perks of office. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I ask the honour­ able member for Archerfield to accept the The Premier, who is outraged at a few Minister's explanation. conditions for back-benchers, is the highest­ paid comedian in the world next to Bob Mr. K. J. HOOPER: I do so accordingly Hope. We are paying-you, Mr. Speaker, the and leave it to his conscience. Queensland taxpayers and I-to keep the rest of Australia laughing. Mr. GREENWOOD: Again I rise to a point of order. The honourable member In 1975, on the eve of the Federal elections, talks about leaving it to my conscience. this Parliament was called together-and I ask him to withdraw his statement. goodness knows how much it cost-just so that he could slander former Labor Ministers. Mr. K. J. HOOPER: I accept that. I Again the public met the cost of his cowardly will leave it to the members of his own amusement. party to be the judges. Then there is the Emperor Room at the Mr. GREENWOOD: I ask that the hon­ Zebra Motel. Everybody has heard of it. It ourable member withdraw his statement. costs over $50 a night, without breakfast I might add, so that the Premier can entertain Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The honourable himself at playing Julius Caesar. member will withdraw it. Matters of Public Interest [31 MAY 1978] Matters of Public Interest 1321

l\ir. K. J. HOOPER: I do so accordingly. I would like to hear that accounting and I demand that we, the Australian public, hear In the publicity field, $75,430 went to the it from the national health watchdog. It is advisers of the National Party (Leo Burnett to the Australian public that that body has Pty. Ltd.) for the 1977 referendum campaign, to account, not to the large manufacturers which not even the entire Government sup­ of chemicals. They, too, have an equal ported. obligation to be publicly accountable. It is quite obvious that there is a definite I am not concerned only about congenital rift in the Government ranks over this defects in the embryo. I have mentioned matter. Because the Premier does not want that before. to lose the numbers in the House this after­ noon, he is prepared to go to any lengths. I am also concerned about careless crop If this Parliament were to assemble for spraying. I refer to an article in the Too­ a course in unprincipled bludging on the woomba "Chronicle" which stated that cotton public pay-roll, it could not have better growers in the Cecil Plains area have banded tutors than the Premier and his offsider, together to support a test case against aerial the "Billy Bunter" member for Ashgrove, crop-spraying because of alleged careless the Minister for Survey and Valuation, who weedicide application. They in fact tried to would make an ideal prefect. sue an operator for $400,000 because of the drift affect of 2,4-D. I was not able to find out what happened in that case, but I really ENVIRONMENTAL EFFECTS OF HERBICIDES think it would have been an important test 2,4,5-T AND 2,4-D case for the whole of Queensland. Mrs. KYBURZ (Salisbury) (12.12 p.m.): It I now refer to a newspaper article written is my intention this morning to continue to in September 1975 by David Fleay in which inform the House about herbicides and pesti­ he said he is now seeing many hundreds of cides and their effect on the environment. birds which are affected by non-degradable First of all, however, I must make a com­ pesticides. He said that these birds suffer ment on the contribution of the honourable internal torture. There is a photograph of a member for Archerfield. Indeed, I would bird in agony accompanying the article, which be remiss if I failed to do so. He is usually I think is extremely sad. a fictitious fabricator of fanciful rubbish, but this morning there are seven people who Before making any further statements, I thank him simply because he had the guts should say that no practical person could deny to do what we did not get the opportunity the economic need for the control of pests. to do. It is difficult for me to say that, but I must thank the Minister for Primary I shall say it to his face. Industries for the letter which purported to come from him personally. However, I do In speaking about herbicides, I must refer not thank his departmental officers for claim­ first of all to the "Four Corners" programme on the health dangers associated with pesti­ ing in the letter firstly, that I am over­ cides. I had the library research not only emotional and, secondly, that I am not com­ the text of the programme but also questions petent, which is a euphemism for intelligent. asked in the Federal House, because that is My command of English is as good as any the sphere in which such questions ought departmental officer's and I am quite com­ to be asked. I myself was extremely con­ petent and able, firstly, to avoid being emo­ cerned to find that the doctor from the tional and, secondly, to look into a matter National Health and Medical Research Coun­ succinctly and clearly. I would be happy to cil, Dr. Fitzsimons, was in fact dumb. I discuss this matter with officers of the Depart­ cannot think of any nicer way of saying it. ment of Primary Industries because I do not He was slow and he seemed to me to be feel that the whole of the responsibility somewhat dim-witted-and that is being kind should devolve upon them. to him. He obviously did not know his There has been a national cover-up on this business. The council has not presented a matter because, obviously, all governments report on 2,4,5-T for the last two years. In are responsible. I am not tipping buckets on fact, in 1975 it decided that perhaps it ought to be looking at the problems of 2,4,5-T this Government for absolving itself from and 2,4-D and their related dioxin toxicity. responsibility for pesticide control; I am In 1975 it started, and it is now 1978. I simply saying .that it is a matter which we suggest that those on the council are a little should discuss more publicly and 0penly. behind the times. Farmers who wish to use these sorts of herbi­ cides aerially have to be made aware of the I was extremely concerned to see that in results which can occur. the Federal Parliament that had all been glossed over. I say that the National Health I referred earlier to pesticide drift in the and Medical Research Council ought to be Cecil Plains area. This must concern us sacked because it is not doing what it is because the over-use of pesticides is breaking supposed to do. down the ecological chain, especially in bird life. I am extremely concerned that birds An article in "The Australian" states- are suffering to such an extent that David "A national health watchdog council on Fleay can say that some hundreds are carried dangerous chemicals will have to account into his reserve every month. He says that this week for its approval of the sale in it is a crime against the environment, and I Australia of pesticides 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D." do not doubt that. 1322 Matters of Public Interest [31 MAY 1978] Matters of Public Interest

I would now like to refer to the report of I call upon members of the National the Committee of Inquiry into Animal and Health and Research Council to move on this Vegetable Pests, which is extremely compre­ matter, and I also call upon the Federal hensive. There has been no discussion on Government to exercise some area of res­ this report at all. I want to refer to section ponsibility. In fact, they should have been P of the report, which deals with the doing this some time ago; it is their duty, and let us not be clobbered with making a "Adverse Effects of Pesticides and Related decision in this House for the whole of Aust­ Compounds". It is a rather long-winded ralia. section, but paragraph 7.277 states-

"Somewhat alarming statistics were sub­ PLlGHT OF THE BEEF INDUSTRY mitted indicating a very high level in Queensland of D.D.T. and dieldrin in body Mr. KATTER (Flinders) (12.22 p.m.): I fats, human milk and baby fat. Emphasis rise to express my very deep concern about was placed on the toxicity, alleged carcino­ the state of the beef industry in Queensland genic (ability to produce cancer or tumour) and Australia. I know that this particular properties and alleged capacity to produce subject has been hashed and rehashed on anatomical abnormalities of persistent numerous occasions in this House. Even so, chlorinated hydrocarbon insecticides." I am still hoping that we are going to get some sort of minimum pricing in the beef That paragraph alone worries me and should industry in Queensland. I think that the concern us all as members of the State House. time has now been reached where this par­ The report then goes on to state that the ticular House can no longer walk away from members were told certain things by the the subject and say, "We have to wait for Queensland Conservation Council, and that the other States to make the first move." in fact they believed that the responsibiHty should devolve upon the National Health and The state of the beef industry in Australia Medical Research Council. I could not has changed very dramatically during the last agree more. six to 12 months. Let me just quickly race over some statistics of which honourable I suggest, as I did in a question recently members are probably well aware and are to the Minister for Health, that the snail­ very bored with hearing. In my own particu­ paced members of that body get off their lar electorate, with a total population of some butts and look at this question. If it is at all 20,000 people, 780 station employees lost possible, we need to know the answers now. their jobs over the last three years. The popu­ This question has been looked at by doctors lation dropped in the three major western and scientists all over the world. I suggest towns in my electorate by almost 600 people. that if 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D are in fact ex­ tremely dangerous not only to human Let me turn to the sale of station proper­ embryos but to bird and animal life, then ties during the last three years. Eight station they should, first of all, be withdrawn from properties have been sold by private owners sale in small quantities. to multinational processing companies, but there has been no sale by a multinational I will not state the commercial forms company, or a company of any description, because if I do I know I will be in trouble, to a private owner. The drift of land-owner­ as I have been in the past. However, I ship continues at a great rate to absentee know that I can with impunity name the owners. I might add that the eight stations chemical compounds both in this House and I mentioned are very big stations. outside. The fact is that if these commercial The area stretching from below Charters forms were taken off the shelves of super­ Towers almost in a straight line to Richmond markets and hardware stores, the suburban is in the grip of a very severe drought. Most gardeners and the council workers around of the area there has received only 4! in. of this city would not be able to spray them as rain in the last 12 months, whereas the aver­ freely as they do. I know that council age rainfall is usually 16 to 24 in. a year, employees are puffing this stuff around the and it is obvious there will be no relief until south side of Brisbane, even on the median the end of the year. What does this mean? strips of roadways, and that the Main Roads It means that a person who is already heavily Department employees use the stuff for the in debt because he has worked at an average control of weeds. loss for the previous four years of some An Honourable Member: It shows a lack $5,000, which is the official figure from the of responsibility. Bureau of Agricultural Economics, is sud­ denly hit with the prospect of having to move Mrs. KYBURZ: I believe it shows a lack his cattle off his own station and pay for of responsibility because it has a long-term, agistment as well as his normal operating build-up effect on the environment. This costs. So his loss jumps from $5,000 to some­ fact has been proved-perhaps not in Aust­ thing well in excess of $10,000 or $15,000. ralia, but it certainly has been proved in That is the average for those stations. Sweden where the build-up effect in State From these statistics it is obvious that there forests has been so great that trees die back will not be left in this area one station owned or are stunted in growth, not growing to by the people who are presently on it­ more than 1 m. unless they have some other source of income. Matters of Public Interest [31 MAY 1978] Matters of Public Interest 1323

In fact a large number of station-holders Mr. KATTER: Someone who is interject­ around Marathon work for the Railway ing has asked why some of that money going Department. That is how they make their somewhere else is not spent on the beef extra money. Similarly, many of the station industry. If the price of beef in Australia owners in the Prairie/Pentland area work in were to be raised by one cent it would cost railway fettling gangs. No doubt a few people $33,000,000. As Queensland contains about view this with some degree of scepticism, one-third of Australia's beef industry, when because in their minds they have a picture of we talk about the Australian beef industry very wealthy people galloping around on we are talking to a large extent about Queens­ horses and going to Surfers Paradise for land. If the price were raised by lOc, their holidays. which is getting close to a figure that would allow 60 or 70 per cent of the industry to If any honourable members wish to find the become viable, it would require a subsidy of local graziers I would invite them to visit $330,000,000 a year. So I do not think we not the homesteads-no-one is on them; can afford to take from Consolidated Revenue the wife is living in the town and the the sum that would be necessary to help husband is out working on the railways­ overcome this problem. but the fettling camps. Another Opposition member made an inter­ Again and again we hear of the problems jection about stabilisation. He might want confronting the beef industry. Everyone stabilisation in the beef industry; I won't hangs his head in shame and weeps for the have a bar of it. We are not after the industry. He says, "What a terrible plight it stabilisation of prices; we are after an is in." People in Brisbane have sent lawn increase in the income to producers. clippings to us. I am not denigrating that in any way; it was a wonderful gesture on As I was saying, someone might ask what the part of the people of Brisbane. What I right the beef industry has to minimum am trying to say is that no-one in Australia pricing. I would ask: Who else in society has done a single constructive act that will enjoys a minimum price for his product? give the beef industry even a fraction of a Legally any person in a job is entitled to a cent more than it is getting at the present minimum price for his product, that is, his time. I can think of one possible exception­ labour. This minimum price is provided for our Premier's re-opening of the Japanese in the industrial award governing his job. market. Apart from that action, not a All people employed under industrial awards, single thing has been done to raise the price therefore, enjoy minimum pricing. Workers of beef in Australia by a single, solitary cent. in the sugar industry, the butter industry, the dairy industry, the fishing industry and vir­ What we are talking about is minimum tually every other primary industry-including pricing in the beef industry. I do not like the wool industry--enjoy minimum pricing. terms such as "stabilisation". If the prices That is what we are trying to get for the that have ruled for the past 10 years were to beef industry. The time has come for this become stabilised, private ownership in the Parliament to proceed with setting minimum State of Queensland would be written off. prices. The lives of the people who have lived on Mr. Scott: What has Mr. Sinclair done the land and contributed everything to the development of this great nation would be for you? Nothing! written off. In some instances families for Mr. KATTER: If the honourable member four or five generations have worked in the read the Press he would see that I attacked beef industry and have produced some of Mr. Sinclair openly. He need not think the greatest Australians. They would be that he can score points off me by such written off entirely. We are talking about remarks. minimum pricing in the beef industry, not stabilisation, not evening-out of incomes, not Mr. Scott interjected. buffer funding-which is exactly the same Mr. KATTER: We foisted Mr. Sinclair thing-not price-smoothing arrangements, on the Australian people? Let me tell the such as those that exist in New Zealand. We honourable member what the Commonwealth are talking about minimum pricing. I am A.L.P. Government did for the beef industry! irritated to hear other terms used. The only Mr. Whitlam made a public promise to thing we are after is a rise in the price of bring down the price of beef in Australia. the product. That was one promise he certainly kept by An Opposition Member: Why don't you allowing Japan to cut off completely our spend on the beef industry some of the beef exports. When the Premier of Queens­ land said, "No beef, no coal," this running money going on Tarong? dog, who ran with the international bleeding hearts to help the Third World all of the Mr. KATTER: No doubt some of the time, let his own nation, industries and socialist members on my right who are people go down the drain. Mr. Whitlam did presently making noises will ask: What right not do one single thing about reopening the does the beef industry have to a minimum Japanese market. price? I have cited what happened concerning Mr. Scott: You don't know what stabilisa­ Japan and our beef industry, but the A.L.P. tion means. hit us with a number of other things. It 1324 lvlatters of Public Interest [31 MAY 1978] Matters of Public Interest

abolished the depreciation allowance and Government Analyst had done tests and imposed an export tax on the beef industry. give me the results of those tests? From In this way the A.L.P. imposed an extra that answer, one would believe that the cost of $300,000,000 each year on rural Health Minister was on the ball and doing industries. his job by having tests done; but, from the While I may be critical of Mr. Sinclair, information I have received, the Govern­ and I certainly have been, I point out that ment Analyst has never visited the site Mr. Wriedt-at a meeting in Rockhampton and has only tested soil supplied by the called by none other than the honourable developer from a 2 hectare area of the member for Rockhampton, if my memory estate. serves me correctly-when asked, "What do In last week's "Sunday Sun" the project you intend to do about minimum pricing?", manager (Mr. Greenaway) confirmed what I said, "Minimum pricing cannot be intro­ have just stated, when he said- duced. It is totally unacceptable to the "The State Government analyst has Australian Government and Australian con­ studied samples of soil from this area and sumers." We received a flat, straight no confirmed our reports." from the A.L.P., and were left without hope of gaining anything. All we got was a cost Mr. Greenaway went on to say- imposition of $300,000,000 a year from the "If the Government wishes to

think that is sufficient to indicate the var­ FISH-STOCKING OF INLAND WATER STORAGE$ ious organisations that are vitally interested AND STREAMS in the proposed development of this area. Mr. SLJVIPSON (Cooroora) (12.49 p.m.): I Strange as it may sound, I say again that wish to bring before the Parliament, Cabinet there is no co-ordinating authority for this and the public the matter of setting up an inland fisheries commission in Queensland. stretch of water, and this lack of co-ordina­ I think it is high time such a body was tion is causing very severe problems. It is established to promote the stocking of building up tremendous pressure among streams, ponds and dams in this State and various people and organisations for use of the sporting and recreational aspects of fish­ the remaining foreshore land. People want ing not only for the people of Queensland to obtain land on which to build boats and but for interstate and overseas visitors. It establish marine industries, fish retail outlets would directly affect other departments such and so on. But nobody knows what the as the Departments of Tourism, Local Gov­ future holds. No-one knows whether he can ernment, Irrigation and Water Supply, Lands, go ahead and establish a business or whether Forestry and Recreation. I believe that the he should even ask for land for this purpose. commission should be made up of represen­ No-one knows whether marinas will be estab­ tatives of all those departments and the Department of Fisheries. I believe such a lished, or how many there will be. commission should be independent of the The Gold Coast City Council has a plan Department of Fisheries, as are similar com­ to extend The Broadwater car-park at the missions in other States, so that it can also eastern end of Nerang Street in Southport. deal with tourism, recreation and sport which Its extension would be a very simple matter would be better promoted by such a body. It of pumping sand to build up an additional should have the specific job of stocking area. There are hundreds and thousands of streams with native fish and, in addition, cubic yards of sand in The Broadwater, some investigating the importation of certain fish of which I acknowledge must be retained for species such as the Nile perch, which could beach protection and, in due course, beach do very well here. nourishment. But here the whole project is Our native fish have been used to a stream being held up because the Beach Protection environment without dams, and the setting Authority will not give permission for some up of barrages and dams on our streams has of the sand to be pumped onto the foreshore considerably reduced the native ftsh popula­ and a car-park to be made from that area. tion even though we have in fact increased That is simply because no-one has the our water storage capacity. But there arc authority to say yes or no. overseas fish which show great promise, especially if they are placed in our tropical Just imagine what the situation will be areas. The Nile perch grows to some 200 lb. when the bar is stabilised and ocean-going in weight. It is acknowledged as a very yachts come in to The Broadwater, the fish­ good sporting and eating fish. Of course, ing industry doubles and even trebles, and there are those who say, "Oh, gee, European recreational boats number not 5,000 but carp were introduced and they created a 10,000 or even 15,000! What sort of piece­ tremendous problem." The European carp meal development will we get unless a co-or­ is a prolific breeder and does upset our dinating authority is established, and estab­ native fish, but the greatl:'st problem is that lished quickly? it is very poor for eating. If the carp were a good eating and sporting fish, we would be To complicate the problem caused by the treating it in the same way as we treated lack of a co-ordinating authority, increasingly trout, because the trout is a good sporting conflicting statements are being made by and eating fish and has therefore been wel­ people involved in the matter. I must say comed in this country. that Ministers of this Government have also made conflicting statements on development If and when we introduce fish into Aus­ of The Broadwater and what the future holds tralia we must adopt every possible safe­ for it. This is confusing boating interests and guard against the introduction of any diseases, businessmen in the area and it is another and we must also investigate whether they reason why a master plan must be drawn up will detrimentally aft'ect any of our native as quickly as possible for the use of the sea, fish or fish habitats. We need to use the the land and the sand in this area. If this is expertise of officers of the Fisheries Depart­ not done, the problems will be magnified. ment to investigate the dift'erent varieties The co-ordinating authority could possibly be of fish that could be introduced, but in addi­ the Department of Harbours and Marine, tion they should try to find native fish species the Gold Coast City Council or the Port of which could be promoted. These species Brisbane Authority. Probably the best move, could be bred in hatcheries and released to however, would be the establishment of a local authorities and to owners of the separate port authority or harbour board for hundreds of dams throughout Queensland this area. that are capable of being stocked with fish. At the moment we have only one Government I think I have emphasised the problem and fish hatchery, at Walkamin in North Queens­ I urge that whatever is to be done be done land, and it is only in its infancy in the quickly. propagation of fish. Matters of Public Interest [31 MAY 1978) Supply 1327

Mr. Kaus: We don't want anything like $2,000 per kilometre of stream taking into the European carp. account accommodation, bait, gear, food supplies and other items that are necessary Mr. SIMPSON: I have just been speaking about the carp and the fact that it is not for a fishing trip. The spin-off is incredible. a good sporting or eating fish. We need to I commend the Mary Valley Fishing establish hatcheries in the southern part of Replenishment Committee for its voluntary Queensland to stock not only public dams contribution to stocking darns like the and streams but also private dams. We have Borurnba Darn, which is situated in a one private hatchery between Cooroy and beautiful forestry area near Imbil. This dam Tinbeerwah. The gentleman who owns it, situation is one reason why we will need to Mr. Cook, is getting on in years, but it is involve people from the Forestry Department the only hatchery which is selling fish to be and the Lands Department on a fisheries corn­ used for stocking dams. It is high time we mission. It has been only a few years started a hatchery to enlarge on this work since spotted barramundi were released in and to investigate the introduction of other the Borumba Dam and yet just a week or species. two ago 7 lb. and 4 lb. barramundi were Mr. Burns: That is not the fellow who caught there. That proves that they have went overseas on a Churchill Fellowship really thrived in that dam. Silver perch and came back and was ignored and then were also released and in two years they went to America? have grown to 2 lb. So if we use that dam as an example, the potential for an Mr. SIMPSON: No. That was Hamer inland fishing industry in Queensland is Midgley, who is an expert on Nile perch. immense. He went to Kenya on a Churchill Fellow­ Dr. Lockwood: We would have to look ship and subsequently, because of his work, to improving the access to streams so that Nile perch were introduced into America, we can take full advantage of your proposal. where they are doing well. We lost our opportunity then to use his expertise, so I think we should be doing something now. Mr. SIMPSON: We would have to look at streams and ponded waters. We would Mr. Burns: Why did the Government refuse need to look at all inland streams. In to do anything about Nile perch? What fact, I think we should be looking at this was the reason for not accepting his recom­ as a resource that we are not developing mendations? in the State. If we do develop it, people will travel hundreds of miles and spend thousands Mr. SIMPSON: I think people in the South still had vivid memories of the carp of dollars-collectively millions of dollars­ infestation and were probably reluctant to in this State to indulge in the sport of introduce a new species of fish. However, inland fishing. It is a sport that gets every­ I believe we can introduce a fish for sport one in from young children to the mums and and for eating, provided we take the neces­ dads. sary quarantine safeguards against disease and the ecology of the streams . is not Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. unduly upset. It must be remembered that Hewitt): Order! Under the provisions of the we have already upset the ecology of the Sessional Order agreed to by the House, streams and rivers with the construction of the time allotted for the debate on Matters dams for domestic and industrial water, of Public Interest has now expired. power-stations and flood-mitigation schemes. [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.J We should be promoting a lucrative indus­ try such as that enjoyed by the New South Wales inland fishing industry. It has been SUPPLY worked out that that industry is worth some $2,000 per kilometre of stream in New CoMMITTEE-VOTE OF CREDIT ($1,125,000,000) South Wales. In Queensland we have nearly -RESUMPTION OF DEBATE half the water and stream capacity of Aus­ tralia, so there is a resource that we are (Mr. Kaus, Mansfield, in the chair) not adequately developing. Some people Debate resumed from 23 May (see p. 1142) might say that a hatchery costs a lot of on Mr. Knox's motion- money and it will never be economic, but to fishermen economics do not come into "That there be granted to Her Majesty, the matter. To them fishing is a sport and on account, for the service of the year recreation. We should propagate fish in 1978-79, a further sum not exceeding inland streams. I would even go so far $1,125 million towards defraying the as to suggest that an inland fisheries com­ expenses of the various departments and mission should be set up. The cost of services of the State." -establishing that commission could be recouped by charging a fee for licences to Mr. BLAKE (Bundaberg) (2.15 p.m.): I fish in inland streams. If the fish population rise to speak to the motion because I am were propagated, people would be only too deeply concerned about the economic condi­ willing to take out such licences. I know tions not only in my electorate but through­ that New South Wales gets a return of out the State as a whole. 1328 Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit)

It is strange that the Treasurer did not of the major world sugar-producing nations explain why the Appropriation Bill is being and suffer severe financial hardship for the brought on three months earlier than usual. rest of the time. I can assume that this is the result of either financial mismanagement or the backlash We have witnessed plenty of examples of from the electoral duplicity of the Govern­ that. In the early 1960s we were told by our ment when it tried to present to the electors advisers that the world's sugar producers would be unable to produce as much sugar prior to the last State election a rosy picture as the world needed. That may have been of the economy and promises of projects that true if price had been entirely disregarded. would be instituted. I say, "promises of pro­ If the importing countries had been able to jects" advisedly. get sugar for next to nothing, we might not The State Government promised no have been able to produce enough. We were increase in charges for a certain time-and told at that time that the industry must be that promise must have had its effect. But expanded greatly because there was no way that promise was kept for only a short time. that the world sugar nations could produce It certainly resulted in a run-down of neces­ the tonnage required. sary finances. The State Government has Before the expansion in the mid-1970s we received less than it was promised by the were told the same story, with different quali­ Federal Government, so I claim that there fications, namely, that the cost of sugar infra­ has been duplicity at both the State and structure was so high that increased produc­ Federal level of Government. tion could not be undertaken overnight by any In fairness, I accept that in difficult times, sugar-producing nation; that in countries such if a Government wishes to stimulate the as Brazil there would be so much competition economy with selected and well-placed from the beef, cotton and other agricultural labour-intensive projects, it is necessary to pursuits that there could be no rapid expan­ borrow money. I will be interested to see sion in sugar production. But that was not so to what purpose this money will be put. at all. Never has there been such a huge quantity of sugar hanging over the market The fact that the Bill is being introduced as there is at present. three months earlier than usual might indi­ cate that the Government is going to take Any expansion in the sugar industry has been followed quickly by lean times. No stimulating action straight away in the eco­ doubt honourable members recall that after nomic areas that need to be looked at. One the 1963 expansion, the then Minister for such area is the sugar industry. I speak for Overseas Trade, Mr. McEwen, said that we Bundaberg and the area that supports it. could not shovel sand off the beaches and Many sugar areas have become quite debili­ transport it to London and other places at tated. the world market price. The Federal Labor I want to refer to a Press cutting dated Government adopted a different approach. 28 March this year. It stated that there It realised that contracts based on tonnage would be a drop of $21,000,000 in the value were one thing, but that tonnages, at a cer­ of Bundaberg sugar. That drop represents tain price, were another. Labor insisted on a decline in the sugar values in the 1977 the industry underpinning a large percentage harvest season in four mill areas in of sugar production with contracts based on Bundaberg. It must be realised, of course, negotiated prices. It believed that provided that the figure of $21,000,000 is only an esti­ security for the very high costs of the industry mate, as the final figure is not known. expansion. But it was found that that was not so. Japan welshed on the original The article went on to say- agreement. "Although part of this decline will have The bargaining with Japan and the eventual been caused by the lower production, the arrangements arrived at set a precedent. Con­ most significant reason is the big fall in the tracts with other countries, which we thought expected final sugar price." were firm, had to be scaled down accordingly, with great losses to the industry. Now a loan Certainly the Federal Government's procras­ from Japan has been reported. At the same tination in deciding on a price for sugar time a huge demurrage cost was incurred. has not helped the situation; nor has the No official announcement has been made on $30 increase, which we read about today, whether or not it was met by the Australian provided the answer to the problems arising Sugar Industry. Now we are borrowing in those areas. millions from Japan. I shall now deal with matters other than When I think of the protracted negotiations drought concerning reduced sugar income. In with Japan, I often wonder if the Govern­ the light of what has happened, I am con­ ment's foreshadowed trade office in Japan or vinced that any further expansion in the another Asian region would have facilitated sugar industry must be undertaken very adherence to the agreement, and how much cautiously, with an acute awareness of pro­ the Australian Sugar Industry could have duction waves and cycles throughout the been saved. world. Because I think it is vitally important, I repeat that everyone in the State should We must remain aware of the inglorious realise that the Australian industry must not uncertainty of sugar markets when we are be expanded only to fill temporary shortfalls thinking of expanding to fulfill projected Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) 1329 requirements of the large sugar importers. $370,000,000. It is quite obvious from the time Even contractual agreements can no longer taken by the Federal Government to reach an be relied upon. agreement with the Queensland Government The new International Sugar Agreement is about the domestic sugar price that it does an unknown quantity and to date is not appreciate one little bit the contribution ineffective. I believe that the E.E.C. and made by the Queensland sugar industry to­ the U.S.A. are not yet signatories to it. wards fighting inflation. After the industry Although we had great hopes, the had provided what might be called a subsidy facts are set out as follows in the "Aus­ of $370,000,000, which resulted in the Con­ tralian Sugar Journal" of January 1978, at sumer Price Index in this country being kept page 509- down, it could be thought that some appre­ "Record world sugar stocks, the possi­ ciation would be shown by the Federal Gov­ bility of production restraint, uncertainty ernment for such an efficient industry that of E.E.C. policies, increasing production in did not look for domestic increases while it Eastern Europe and likely new competition had reasonably profitable markets overseas. from alternative sweeteners are a few fac­ Apparently that Government expects the tors that take some of the shine out of the sugar industry to continue to supply cheap hopes for the new International Sugar sugar for the purpose of helping the economy Agreement. (Sufficient countries indicated and assisting the Government to hold C.P.I. their intention of acceding to the Agree­ increases to a low level. Of course, that is ment for it to come into force from 1st totally unfair considering the costs of pro­ January 1978.) duction of the industry, which have always "This is the tone of the picture drawn by had to be justified to the Government in the C. Czarnikow Ltd., London sugar brokers, past and can be justified at any time in the in looking at world sugar market prospects future. It could be said that that opinion for 1978. They say: came from somebody associated with the "Recent assessments have shown th&t sugar industry, so I quote an excerpt from world sugar stocks, both in absolute terms "The Courier-Mail" of 20 April as follows- and on a percentage basis, have risen to "The Federal Government seems more record levels, while current production determined to produce an impressive estimates indicate that a further expansion C.P.I. figure than to do the industry jus­ in unwanted and unsaleable supplies must tice. It should recognise that it will not be in prospect. It is understandable, there­ bargain its way out of inflation by denying fore, that one should look forward to the a reasonable return to a responsible and forthcoming year with some misgivings, an efficient industry-one on which so even though there are reasons for believ­ much of the prosperity of coastal Queens­ ing that changes in national and inter­ land depends." national policies may bring about an im­ provement in the situation before the year I could not agree more. is out." I want to move now to water resources, Then comes the crunch- which are of great importance to Bundaberg "However, for the time being it seems and district. I was amazed to hear in this that the world trade does not have the Chamber last week, in answer to a question, same faith in the power of the Agree­ that Queensland, along with New South ment to bring a speedy improvement in Wales and Victoria, had not nominated its tone as do the legislators who established list of priorities to the Federal Gov­ it, for not one of the quotations in either ernment's National Water Resources Program. the London or the New York Terminal Following that, I received complaints from Market for sugar for delivery in 1978 is people in the Toowoomba area about the quoted above the Agreement minimum." Cressbrook Dam and Stage II of the Leslie The position has not changed. The latest Dam at Warwick. Those dams have been figures show that the price is fluctuating at the subject of complaints to me. I have about £Stg100 a tonne. It must be appreciated been informed that the Deputy Premier and that, although we are restricting the produc­ Treasurer stated that detailed design work tion that would have been possible as a on the Leslie Dam gates had been proposed result of the finance invested in the expan­ for early 1978. In the case of the Leslie sion of the industry, the E.E.C. countries are Dam, the Minister for Lands, Forestry and still producing more and more sugar. There­ Water Resources said in a letter to the local fore, it is extremely important that all future member, Mr. Booth, in March this year- decisions by the sugar industry be considered "I would again assure you that Leslie very carefully, particularly as some of our Dam (Stage II) will continue to rate trading partners apparently do not honour highly on the State's priorities for rural their long-term contracts. water conservation works." The amount received by the grower for each tonne of sugar has not increased since In a letter to the Warwick City Council, 1967. In fact, the Minister for Primary Mr. Beattie, the Irrigation and Water Supply Industries said that the growers are receiving Commissioner, said- $3 less than they were at that time. In the "The Commission had accepted for some last five years the sugar industry has sub­ years now the need for an early start sidised the Australian consumer to the tune of on the Leslie Dam Stage II project and 1330 Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit)

were seeking funds for a start on some straits. Funding of the scheme would also associated works in its 1978-79 loan works help to overcome the great problem of programme." unemployment in Bundaberg. Naturally, there is concern in those areas (Time expired.) that the schemes have not been submitted to the Federal Government. Mr. POWELL (Isis) (2.37 p.m.): It is The Bundaberg scheme is my particular appropriate, I believe, during debate on an concern. Originally this was a State-Federal Appropriation Bill, to put before the Com­ scheme. The Fraser Federal Government mittee some of the difficulties one finds in withdrew completely from funding it when one's own electorate and request the Treas­ the dam was full of water which could have urer to look sympathetically at the fund­ irrigated the Bundaberg district, the Bingera ing for which one hopes for projects in district and the Isis Mill area. I am very the area in the coming year. interested to learn what the priorities will It is rather interesting that I follow in be. this debate the honourable member for Bun·· I note from an answer given in this daberg, who has spoken about the drought Chamber that a limited start on Phase 2 in our area. It would perhaps be fitting is to be considered if money comes from the if I were followed by the honourable member Federal Government. As yet I do not know for Maryborough so that there would be a and I should like to ask whether or not the progression from north to south. Perhaps Federal loan of $200,000,000 over five years the Committee would then realise the extent is a non-repayable grant, or part loan and of the drought in the Isis area, which takes part grant, what loans there will be and the in part of Bundaberg and also Maryborough conditions that will be attached to them. and Hervey Bay. I do not think that many Bundaberg is at present experiencing drought people realise how bad it is. Yesterday I was very happy to have the Treasurer with and it is imperative that we get money me in my electorate. He travelled with me so that we can use the water to offset the from Bundaberg to Childers and returned severe losses that are being incurred at pres­ by another route which gave him a very ent. real appreciation of the way in which this I am pleased that, although the State Gov­ area has been so drastically affected by ernment dragged its feet in the early stages drought. of the scheme, once the Federal Government Perhaps a few figures may interest hon­ pulled out of its obligations, the State step­ ourable members who have some sympathy ped in. We are appreciative of the State with cane farmers, in particular, and also Government work and finance since the the people of Isis. Whilst farmers are very Federal Government opted out of the drastically affected, so, too, are those who scheme. If it has not already been sub­ work on the farms and in the mills. The mitted, we ask that the priority of the tmemployment situation, especially in the Bundaberg scheme, which was a Federal­ Childers area, will be desperate later this State scheme initially and should still con­ year. tinue to be one, will be retained in the representations by this State to the Let me now deal with rainfall. Childers Commonwealth. has an annual average of between 45 and 50 inches. Honourable members can work that The Isis, Gin Gin and Wallaville areas are out in millimetres if they care to. One the driest parts of the district. The Bunda­ cane-growing area has received only 7 inches berg irrigation committee says that it would of rain in the last 12 months. That is an need an ongoing amount of something like extremely low rainfall for the growing of $12,000,000 a year. With Federal funding, sugar-cane. Other areas have received 15 and this would certainly be a possibility. I up to 20 inches. That is less than half, realise that the limited funds of the State sometimes less than a quarter, of the average scarcely allow such a figure but, if the feder­ annual rainfall. It is, of course, impossible alists lived up to their responsibilities, I to grow a good crop of cane without an believe that the funds could be forthcoming. adequate rainfall. Some areas have been fortunate in that they have been able to Another important matter is that the water find small underground supplies and this supply of the city of Bundaberg is seriously year they may be able to market at least endangered by the intrusion of salt water into part of their crop. the underground basin. Until some of the people in the W oongarra area surrounding But the position is more serious than these Bundaberg can be supplied with surface figures suggest. Last year the Isis mill area water, the water supply of Bundaberg is very cut almost I 000 000 tonnes of cane. This much in jeopardy. Bundaberg is a city with year it will be lucky to find 300 000 tonnes. a population approaching 40,000, and con­ Those figures illustrate the difficult employ­ siderable industrial development. The water ment situation. Last year the mill crushed for scheme does not allow for water for industry approximately 23 weeks, thus providing full but it does allow for consumption by the employment, sometimes with overtime, for people within the Bundaberg City Council 23 weeks. This year a crushing period of area. If some assistance is not forthcoming seven weeks seems to be an ambitious expec­ to take the load off underground supplies, tation. When one considers those figures the Bundaberg City Council and the people carefully, one sees the seriousness of the of Bundaberg will indeed be in very dire drought in the Isis area. Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) 1331

I deal now with Hervey Bay, a sugar-grow­ should be reversed because it will make ing area that supplies the Maryborough mill. things intolerable for the farmers in my Last year 120 000 tonnes were cut from the electorate. Hervey Bay area. This year the estimate The honourable member for Bundaberg is 10 000 tonnes. Again, honourable members also mentioned irrigation and the importance can see that this is less than 10 per cent to the area of water conservation. Again, I of the cane that was produced last year, would fully support what he said because and so the situation is particularly serious. water conservation is vital. I am heartened The Isis area is one that has always stood by the fact-in fact, the people of the area on its own two feet. It has seldom gone are very happy indeed-that Cabinet has to the Government looking for assistance. approved in principle Phase 2 of Stage I But in this instance I have to bring before of the Bundaberg Irrigation Scheme, which the Committee the very serious situation that will eventually bring water to the dry areas exists. Because of adverse seasonal con­ of my electorate. It is incongruous that ditions there will be large-scale unemployment the main beneficiaries of the construction in the area this year. I am well aware that of the Monduran Dam have been people seasonal conditions are not the fault of this who already have underground water, but Government-although probably there are it is also sensible if we look carefully at some twisted people who might like to say what is happening to the areas of Burnett they are-but by the same token I am Heads and the south side of the Burnett appealing to the Government to look sym­ River where salt intrusion is becoming a pathetically at projects that have been put very real problem. In fact, it is becoming forward by the Isis, Hervey Bay and Woocoo such a problem that even Bundaberg's water Shire Councils in order to keep people in supply is being threatened. So while the employment. State Government continues to maintain One of the other problems I should men­ that the Monduran scheme should receive tion at this stage is the domestic price of the highest priority I will support it to the sugar. The honourable member for Bunda­ fullest. I believe that we should try to force berg very capably explained why we believe Governments to finish one scheme before the domestic price of sugar should be raised they start another. This is a scheme of in accordance with the application that has great imagination and one that will benefit been made by the industry in Queensland. the Wide Bay area considerably. Its benefits 1 support that application whole-heartedly. are being felt now. We see among people The Federal Government's attitude towards with faith and confidence in the area, those the Consumer Price Index is a commendable who are planning positively for the future, one, and I do not think any of us would a sort of intense enthusiasm. It is rife complain too bitterly about their anxiety among the business community in the Bunda­ to keep it down, but I do not think that berg area. It is important to ensure that a price rise along the lines asked for by because of some Government action that the industry in Queensland would increase enthusiasm is not lost. the C.P.I. very much, if at all. I think it A number of schemes could be under­ is important that Queensland members of taken to help to relieve unemployment. In Federal Parliament explain this very clearly Childers, for instance, the Isis Shire Council to their colleagues in the South. We in has commenced a scheme to build a cultural this Chamber have often criticised Federal centre. We know that it is fairly common Governments of both political colours for for State high schools to build their own taking too much notice of the people assembly halls. Their actions are to be corn­ cloistered in Melbourne, Sydney and Can­ mended, and the State Government is also berra. I am sick and tired of the people to be commended for the way it subsidises in that triangle running Australia. I think the funding of these assembly halls. In my the people of Queensland are sick and tired electorate there are three high schools-the of it, too. It is high time those Federal Kepnock High School at Bundaberg, the Isis members faced up to a few facts and realised High School in Childers and the Hervey Bay that primary and mineral production in High School at Hervey Bay. Each of these Queensland is paying the taxes which pay schools has reached the stage now where it their salaries and enable them to achieve needs an assembly hall. Both Kepnock High the conditions they enjoy. School and the Hervey Bay High School have It would be remiss of me not to mention reached the stage where they have raised the the Matthews Committee report and the money to go ahead with the building of the way it is proposed to be implemented in assembly hall provided the Government Queensland. The farmers in the Isis mill \veighs in with the $98,000 subsidy. How­ area stand to lose almost $2,000,000 as the ever, at Childers no land is available to enable result of a decision of the Queensland Sugar the school to build an assembly hall, so the Board, which is deplorable. Farmers in the council has adopted the very sensible and Maryborough mill area stand to lose unselfish attitude of coming to the party by $1,000,000 and those in the Bundaberg mill building a cultural centre. What needs to area also stand to lose approximately be done is for the Government departments $1,000,000. In other words, the area bounded to get together so as to decide what amount by Maryborough and Bundaberg stands to of subsidy the council will receive. This cul­ lose $4,000,000--this is in a verv serious tural centre will be used mainly by the drought year-simply because of ·a stroke school. It will be built adjacent to the of the pen. I believe that that decision school, but it cannot be built on ground 1332 Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit)

owned by the Education Department because equal headlines to the fact that Massey Fer­ there is just no ground available to put guson, on the south side of the river, was further buildings there. I appeal to the putting men on. Such is the way of the Treasury to look very sympathetically at the Press in trying to show the people that approaches by the Isis Shire Council for a nothing is going very well. We adopted a subsidy for the erection of this facility. positive attitude, and because of it we have been criticised not only by certain sections of I would also like to congratulate the the trade union movement but also by the Hervey Bay Town Council for its attitude Press. to library facilities. This new and small council, although beset by a number of prob­ Yesterday I received in the mail a dupli­ lems, has worked in a very businesslike cated letter from the Amalgamated Metal fashion to establish a library at Hervey Bay Workers' & Shipwrights' Union, dated-note within the council complex. It is to be con­ this-17 April. So it took from 17 April to gratulated for the way it has gone about it. yesterday, 30 May, for this letter to reach Its establishment was discussed with the me. It contains two paragraphs to which I State Library Board, which gave tremendous take great exception, and I want to read assistance, and the project is going ahead. them. The first of those two paragraphs reads as follows- The saga of library facilities in Bundaberg "The meeting decided to send a delega­ goes on and on. The Bundaberg City Council tion from the work-force to explain to the was bequeathed $170,000 to build the library, members of Parliament in the Bundaberg but still the aldermen procrastinate and district the effect the crisis in the manu­ still they haven't made up their mind. I find facturing industry was having on them." it strange that a city of 32,000 to 33,000 people does not have library facilities of the That's a good idea. I would welcome an same sort as Mackay, Cairns or other cities opportunity to speak with a delegation from comparable in size to Bundaberg. It is to that union to discuss what can be done be hoped that the current display in a and to arrange for meetings between the Bundaberg shopping centre and the cam­ union, management and the Government to paign that is being waged to inform citizens make sure that the Government adopts a of the benefits of a free library will be further positive attitude. Of course, most taken up by the city council and soon we of the problems lie in the Federal sphere. will see the council using that $170,000 for The next paragraph, the one to which I the purpose for which it was bequeathed to it. take great exception, reads as follows- "You were unavailable to interview the Another way the Treasury could assist in delegation so by writing we hope to draw relieving unemployment in the Bundaberg/ your attention to what is happening Isis/Maryborough area would be by increas­ to the manufacturing industry and the ing funds available to local authorities for remedies we suggest to improve the situa­ road works. At present there is a disgusting tion." road-there is no other way to describe it­ joining Torbanlea with Hervey Bay. It is a I categorically deny that that union even got popular tourist route, and the tourist industry in touch with me. It certainly did not notify is of tremendous importance to the economy me that any such meeting was to be held. of my electorate. With the downturn in the I have not been approached in any shape or rural economy, tourism is one industry which form. The meeting was held on 10 April; is still looking bright on the horizon. the letter is dated 17 April, and I received Hundreds of people are attracted to this area it on 30 May. Such is the way of that every week, yet we have this very third-rate union in conducting its affairs. Such is its road joining Hervey Bay with Torbanlea insincerity. Although it did not even try and centres to the north. Bundaberg is to reach me, it has the hide to suggest that becoming the commercial and business centre I was not available. It did not even come near of Wide Bay and it is deplorable that such me. a bad road should link it with Hervey Bay. An Opposition Member: Check with your The road traverses two local authority areas, secretary. and a grant of money to the V/oocoo Shire Council and the Hervey Bay Town Council Mr. POWELL: I have checked with my would undoubtedly solve many of the secretary and found that the union has not unemployment problems that arise. Such a even contacted my electoral office. Nor grant would enable the councils to carry out did it try to contact me at my home in work by day-labour in the Hervey Bay, Bundaberg. It is quite clear that the secret­ W oocoo and Isis areas. ary of the union is only making mischief. We in my area are deeply concerned at I understand that he contacted the mem­ the large number of workers in the manu­ ber for Bundaberg, in whose electorate the facturing industries who have had to be put works are situated. He was able to attend off. I want to refer particularly to those the meeting. I am glad that he was there, who were put off by Tofts of North Bunda­ because it meant that at least a member of berg. No-one in the community is happy Parliament was present. I am disgusted at about this situation. However, whereas the the insincerity of the union in writing that Press gave big headlines to the fact that letter, and I will have much pleasure in men were sacked from Tofts, it did not give replying, stating what I think about it. Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) 1333

Mr. Blake: They indicated to me that Thursday, before question-time, the Deputy they intended to contact both of us. Premier and Treasurer strode into the House like a western outlaw and issued a "High Mr. POWELL: The union said it would contact the honourable member for Bunda­ Noon" challenge to me to produce certain berg and me, but I take exception to its information. He was referring to the speech claim that I was unavailable. As people in I made on the previous day during the debate my electorate know, I am available at all on the Racing and Betting Act Amendment times should they feel the need to contact Bill It was obvious that he was not in the me. Ch~mber when I made my speech and, it was equally obvious that, instead of re~di~g I make a plea to the Treasurer to look sympathetically upon the approaches made to my speech, he had read a report of 1t m him by the local authorities in my area for the newspapers. funds to employ people. Although we con­ On the Wednesday I called upon the tinually make pleas for funds for local auth­ Treasurer, who is the Minister in c~arge orities, we know that the Federal Labor Gov­ of racing, to lift the cloud of susprcr?n ernment signed an International Labour hanging over all people connect~~ . w.rth Organisation agreement that makes it very T.A.B. operations in Queensland by mrtJatmg difficult for that to happen. an inquiry that was called for by the Leader The drought in the Bundaberg/Isis/Mary­ of the Opposition a couple of weeks. ago. borough area has reached disastrous pro­ Although I outlined som~ of the pomts I portions. It is the worst ever in the Isis wish to make today, nothmg has been done. area. Half of the Isis sugar-mill suppliers Today, I shall outline them more thoroughly will not cut one stick of cane this year. in the hope that they n:ay _proi?pt the Unemployment in the area will be critical Treasurer to institute an mqmry mto the if emergency measures are not taken. While full operations of the T.A.B. Whe_n !he I acknowledge immediately the assistance Treasurer strode into the H~mse I~sum,g given by the Government, the Social Secur­ "High Noon" challenges, he h1ms7lf .lmpl~­ ity Department and the Commonwealth cated the former Treasurer by mentronmg his Employment Service-! must mention the name. I did not mention Sir G_o~don ~halk two Commonwealth bodies because they have at all in my speech. In his admrmstrat1on of been very sympathetic and co-operative­ the portfolio, Sir Gordon Chalk was much ! urge this Government and the Federal more effective than the present leader, and Government to recognise the severe problems certainly did a better job for the racing facing us and the need to pull out all stops industry. Of course, Sir Gordon Chalk was to ensure that people who are unemployed not implicated in this at all. are given dignity by being able to earn an I also took exception to the Treasurer's income. naming members of the board of the ~.A.B. That is relevant from a personal pom.t of Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (2.57 p.m.): It view. I place it on record that as a .chrl~ I is well to remember that Queensland is going grew up with the family of the late Sir Chve through worse financial strife than any other Uhr. The family are still clos~ personal State in the Commonwealth. Successful indus­ friends of mine. By dragging up his name, I tries have started to fall by the wayside. feel that the Minister casts a slur on some Reasonably buoyant times have deteriorated of his sons and daughters. He brought the because of external and internal economic names of board members into it, and I was conditions. Queensland, which has been a disgusted at his action. That was one of the wealthy State and should have had a great reasons why I had to. spend some time c~ol­ future, is suffering from across-the-board ing down before makmg a total explanatiOn economic cuts that are seriously affecting the and outlining a lot more facts to the Treas­ livelihood of Queenslanders generally. Queens­ urer, which I intend to do now. land industries, particularly the service indus­ tries on the coast, are in trouble. When members of Parliament see events develop as they have in the T.A.B. over .the Today I rise to speak on economic matters last decade, it is their duty as representatives I put to the Treasurer during the debate on in the Parliament of the people of Queens­ the Racing and Betting Act Amendment land to call on the people to do something Bill. The racing industry in Queensland is about it. From having a golden opportunity undergoing a great deal of financial difficulty. some years ago, the T.A.B. is now virtually While it does very well in buoyant times, it being subsidised by the Government of thrs relies largely on Government expertise to State-and I can quote the present Treasurer manage it. Over the past decade himself on that. He made a statement saying Queensland Treasurers have tried to make the how much the Government had had to sub­ racing industry more buoyant through the sidise the operations of the T.A.B. He made introduction of off-course betting. According that statement in regard to the 1975-76 finan­ to the present Treasurer, these efforts, cial year. In that year a supplement of because of problems that have arisen, have not been very successful. $1,500,000 had to be made available to the racing industry. In the 1976-77 year, $2,500,000 Today, I intend to look very critically at had to be made available to supplement "the why problems have arisen to send the econ­ flagging T.A.B. distribution". They are the omy of the Queensland racing industry plum­ Minister's words, not mine-"the flagging meting to the lowest depths compared with T.A.B. distribution". That is the Treasurer's that of the industry in other States. Last administration. 1334 Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit)

It is not new for somebody to be calling not yet severed connections with this com­ for an inquiry into the operations of the pany. At this stage it might not be wise to T.A.B. in Queensland. That can be under­ do so. lined by mentioning some of the history of the matter and naming people who have made However, that is not the main concern. such a call in this Parliament and in other The main concern is that Control Data in places. On 4 December 1969 the then mem­ the United States has assets of $US1.8 billion ber for South Brisbane (Mr. Colin Bennett) and, together with its associated company, culled for an inquiry. On 28 April 1970 the Commercial Credit Company, has public then Leader of the Opposition (Mr. J. assets, which must be in the United States, Houston) called for an inquiry. On 29 July of $US5.7 billion. An inquiry in the United 1970 the then member for Baroona (Mr. Pat States or anywhere else into a company of Hanlon) called for an inquiry-and I will this magnitude would not be looking at a read one of his statements in a moment. In computer deal involving $10,000,000 in an 1973 the late member for Port Curtis (Mr. out-of-the-way place like Queensland. This Marty Hanson) called for an inquiry into the and other companies in this country have T.A.B. and named a couple of people. Then found it advantageous to offer favours or as late as 19 September 1975 the present bribes in order to sell their wares. This is Leader of the OppDsition (Mr. Tom Burns) a fact of life. This company was fined for again called for an inquiry. its operations in the United States. It is part Apart from calls for an inquiry by people of its business operation. inside this Parliament, racing writers Mr. Knox interjected. throughout the State have made similar statements, to such an extent that they have Mr. D'ARCY: It has already been proved been answered in this Parliament by the that this has happened with companies oper­ Treasurer of the day. The chairman of the ating in Australia, and I shall name a couple Townsville Turf Club (Dr. Halberstater) of them. called for an inquiry into the T.A.B., at the Here is one that the Treasurer can start same time claiming mismanagement and investigating. Recently the North Queens­ stating certain facts. land Electricity Board employed one of the !Hr. Davis: He was very upset, too. computers on the T.A.B. line-not a Control Data computer but a Computeracc digital Mr. D'AP..CY: That is right. That was computer-and after that computer was used, on 10 October 1974. a telex was sent to the company involved. ICL was the challenging company. The In recent times there has again been critic­ telex reads- ism from the racing fraternity, in the per­ sons of Mr. Caswell, president of the Racing "ICL was told yesterday that your Association, and Mr. Mazzaglia of the board's evaluating committee would argue Trainers' Association. Some of these matters in its report that:- should be explained because they are relevant. "(1) because there is free exchange of Many of them, including the problem with systems within your industry there would ~he computer, are relevant to the racing be no conversion cost or need to con­ mdustry, the T.A.B. and the revenue that is vert existing systems as equivalent sys­ being extracted from the State. The Gov­ tems could be obtained from the Mackay ernment is now subsidising the racing industry Electricity Board. which at one time was the goose that laid "(2) the ICL 2904 tendered was not the &olden egg. That is what the Deputy suitable because the equipment proposed Premier and Treasurer is saying and what is by Computeracc had superior on-line concerning all Queenslanders. capacity." The Government is subsidising the race It goes on to state that the board's com­ clubs and, in addition it has, for example puter systems from ICL have resulted from pegged prize-money at the 1975 level. Thi~ approximately 50 man-years of development is limiting the tourist industry. It has and research. It then goes on to state that reduced the subsidy on prize-money paid by the Mackay Electricity Board officer who the clubs. The current subsidy is 70 per cent. demonstrated the installation to the board's Race clubs have been warned by the Treas­ committee was employed by Computeracc urer that there is every indication that the shortly afterwards and may have given an subsidy will not be maintained. The Govern­ inaccurate picture of the state of the sys­ ment is subsidising the T.A.B. distribution tem's development. to maintain it at an economic level. The race The Minister may have this document if he clubs are calling out for development, yet wishes. It shows the difference between the even those that can substantiate their claims two computers, ICL and Computeracc, as are being held back. $236,000 plus maintenance and softwear for Immediately the news about Control Data the ICL computer and $598,000 plus main­ broke, the Government hurriedly sent a lot tenance, softwear and retraining for the of telegrams. We admire this action very other computer. much. It should have been done immedi­ Let us now try to discover exactly what ately it was discovered that this firm was did happen at the Queensland T.A.B. when involved in bribery allegations. The Govern­ the computer was first used here. The ment has admitted quite openly that it has Treasurer had great pleasure in relating the Supply [31 MAY 1978) (Vote of Credit) 1335

situation in Queensland to that in Victoria. The T.A.B. board has come under attack There is in fact no relationship at all. The in this Parliament before on many occasions, Control Data computer installed in Victoria and one of the main reasons why it has been was a continuing operation from 1965 attacked has been the stewardship of Sir onwards. The contract in Queensland in 1973 Albert Sakzewski. Statements have been was completely new. made about him by Mr. Groom, who was I now propose to read from a document sacked as the board manager. He claimed supplied by Wendell Cockrell. It states­ that the T.A.B. has invested funds in com­ mercial enterprises throughout Queensland, "March 1972-The TAB contracted and that he has figures documenting the fact with me to serve as Contract EDP Con­ that many of these funds were invested in sultant for a period of approximately 1 year. firms controlled or advised by Sir Albert "April-May 1972-With two other per­ Sakzewski. sons (TAB staff) I prepared the official request for tender called: Specification I believe that these matters must be investi­ for a Computerized Bet Processing Sys­ gated, especially when one considers that the tem. board has lost so much money over this period. "June 1972-The specification was released to tenderers. Mr. GOLEBY (Redlands) (3.16 p.m.): "Beginning July 1972-Discussions and Everyone realises that no Government and no question/answer sessions were held with a private-enterprise business can continue with­ number of intending tenderers. out finance. Governments raise their finance "29 September, 1972-Tenders closed. by means of taxation, charges, royalties, and "9 October, 1972-Bob Scott of PA so on, and I remind honourable members Consultants began work at TAB as mem­ that only 12 months or so ago the Govern­ ber of the Evaluation Team. On the same ment of this State saw fit to abolish death day, official evaluation of tenders began. duties, which were another form of taxation. There is no need for me to go into what a "15 November, 1972-In the minutes of godsend that was to the community generally. an Evaluation Team Meeting, Bob Scott Almost everyone in the community has been reported to the effect that: advantaged, either directly or indirectly, by "We feel that there should be an ,that move; certainly no-one is complaining increase in the core (computer memory about it. size) on the Control Data proposal. Today I should like to draw the attention Control Data are aware of our doubts, of the Committee to the problems being but suggest their tender figures are sufficient. caused in the community by land tax. All honourable members realise that land tax "end January, 1973-Tenders are nar­ is calculated as at 30 June each year. It rowed to Fujitsu and Control Data (Con­ was first introduced years ago, and although trol Data are included only at pressure from I do not think that anyone complains about P.A.) the principle, the process of levying the tax "late February, 1973-FUJITSU brings seems to have got a little out of hand. I a U-200 mini computer with demonstra­ believe that at Budget time each year, we, tion Telephone Betting programs to as a Government, should lift the ceiling on Brisbane. Within 3 days the equipment is land tax to a level which is in keeping with operative and Telephone Betting had been increasing valuations on unimproved land as demonstrated to the satisfaction of TAB decided by the Valuer-General in the 134 staff, including the evaluation team. On local authorities-that is including Brisbane­ the day following the staff demonstrations, in the State. the TAB Board met and had scheduled Recent revaluations increased the unim­ a final demonstration with Fujitsu. The proved value of land in the area that I board refused to even acknowledge the represent by an average of 650 to 700 per demonstration and called David Cox into cent. It is not possible to achieve relativity the board room only long enough to across the board; but when valuations lose direct him to begin negotiations with their relativity it is very difficult to get an Control Data. accurate or even a fair assessment of land "Late March 1973-My term at the tax, and the latest revaluations have caused TAB ended and I began work at the many cases of hardship in the Redlands University. electorate. Not only large landholders have My final recommendation and that of been affected; urban dwellers-people living Mr. R. Kelly (Computer Science Dept., on residential allotments-and small business­ University of Queensland) were submitted men have been affected. I do not believe that to the board prior to the February board land tax is meant to have such an effect. meeting." The Government should realise that land tax And that, of course, was for the Japanese was introduced to stop large investment com­ machine. Quite significantly, this document panies-monopolies-obtaining large tracts of goes on and explains the technology behind land and, in many cases, not doing anything the selection of the machine. It also productive with them. accuses the T.A.B., and honourable mem­ One person in the community on whom the bers can read this, of virtually asking Con­ revaluations have had a rather severe effect trol Data to introduce a wagering machine. is the small land developer. All honourable 1336 Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) members appreciate what a land developer Treasurer at this time of the year to seek has to do before he can subdivide his land. an advance of that magnitude. I recall First, rezoning is necessary. reading in "The Courier-Mail" of Monday, Mr. R. J. Gibbs: You mean, before he can 11 July last year this article- fleece people? "Balance in the State Budget-Queens­ land finished 1976-77 with a deficit of Mr. GOLEBY: The honourable member about $1 million, the Treasurer (Mr. would not know anything about it. A sub­ Knox) said last night." divider has first to obtain subdivisional appro­ He went on to refer to the extent of val, and that approval has to be for the re­ royalties that the Government had received, zoning of land for residential purposes. That and the statement finished by quoting him applies particularly in the case of anyone as saying- who, as at 30 June, has in the land bank, "Queensland was in a much better as it were, a considerable area of land that financial position than any other State. has been rezoned for residential purposes. He said there was every reason to believe When the Valuer-General revalues the land that 1977-78 would be just as good, if not there is an enormous increase in value, par­ better, for the State finances than 1976-77." ticularly when the land was previously zoned rural and used for rural purposes. As the honourable member for Bulimba said the other day, I believe that this Bill Someone might say that there is no reason is three months before schedule. In my to complain about that. However, the small speech on the motion for the adoption developers say that any other business that of the Address in Reply I referred to the has stock on the shelf or has on hand Governor's comments on the activities of materials purchased for development or for this Government and to the minimum construction is not taxed on that. It is imposts on the people of Queensland through quite possible that two or three years might taxation and charges for Government ser­ pass before all the land held by small vices. That is very good. The Governor developers is actually passed on to individual went on to say- buyers and being used for residential and home development. "The Government is conscious of the fact that the people of Queensland pay Many small developers are finding the the lowest tax per head of population in going rather tough because of the present Australia." economic downturn. It is to the credit We are all very pleased about that. He of the Government that it has heeded the appeals for assistance from small developers went on to say- and allowed them to pay off their land tax by "My Government has introduced pay­ instalments. I could name firms that would roll tax concessions unequalled in other have been forced into bankruptcy but for States and completely abolished road per­ that action. mit fees, succession and gift duties." In the land development field there is a It is good for a Government in an election very narrow line between success and failure year to make a good fellow of itself by because, as we all know, there has been granting rebates of all kinds and by appearing a considerable downturn in the sale of land not to tax the people too heavily. That and, in particular, development costs have certainly wins a few votes. However, today risen considerably. Once it was considered three months earlier than usual, the Govern­ that the land itself was the dearest item ment is forced to bring down the Appropria­ in the presentation of a residential block; tion Bill. I understand that usually the Gov­ today the land is virtually the cheapest item ernment introduces it in August or Sept­ and developmental costs in the shires around ember. This year, however, it is introducing Brisbane are between $6,000 and $7,000. the Bill in May and is seeking $1,125 million. Coupled with a considerable land tax bill, these costs are the last straw. In April last year the Premier, having flown back from the South in his plane­ At this stage I simply ask the Treasurer, should I say the State's plane?-got the when he is framing the Budget for the inspiration to introduce in Queensland a next financial year, to take particular cog­ prices/wages freeze. Large posters were nisance of the fact that exemption levels for printed and displayed in a number of stores land tax have not increased for a couple in support of the move. It was a very good of years. As all honourable members know, move. However, it appears that all that each shire is revalued every five to eight the Government was doing was making a years. As there are 133 shires, a consider­ gesture and merely deferring the inevitable. able number of revaluations are in the Now the Government has to find the huge pipeline, and therefore each year the Treas­ sum of $1,125 million three months earlier urer and his officers should make the neces­ than usual. sary adjustments in exemption levels. In "The Courier-Mail" of Friday, 19 May Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (3.23 p.m.): this year the Treasurer was reported as Firstly, I think $1,125 million is an awful saying that the Budget will not be popular. lot of money in anyone's language and I suppose we should have known that I, like other members in this Committee, this time last year when taxes were cut back. believe the people of Queensland are The Treasurer is nodding. If a Government wondering why it is necessary for the reduces taxes in an election year, thereby Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) 1337 making a good fellow of itself, it has to the increase, but the Government is ripping hit the people to leg in the following year. off the people of Brisbane, particularly on That gives the people time to get over it electricity tariffs. That statement is high­ before the next election. lighted by the gazetted tariff increases which indicate that the increased price charged In that article the Treasurer is reported to distribution boards by the generating as saying- board does not apply until 1 July this year. "We have to face the circumstances of the day as we see them. This is in On the one hand last year the Govern­ relation to meeting costs and providing ment said, "There will be no price increase the services that people demand." in June this year because it is an election vear." On the other hand, it is now trying It is only natural that, if a Government io recoup the money lost last year. cuts back on taxes from which it derives revenue and subsequently finds itself short In reply to a question I asked the Minister of funds, it has to make further increases he said that he had been misquoted and that in taxes. The point that concerns member.s he had said it would apply to accounts sent of the Opposition is that, on the one hand, out from 1 April this year. I believe that taxes on one section of the community are the Government purposely misled the people cut back and, on the other, taxes imposed of Queensland. on another section of the community are People who received accounts about 15 increased. December last year or later, and should have received their next account in mid­ I forecast that in the next Budget we will March this year, did not receive them until see increases in betting taxes, property regis­ after 1 April. They had to pay increased tration fees and mining royalties. I cer­ electricity tariffs for both power and hot tainly hope we will see an increase in water-and I point out that the minimum mining royalties. The people of Queensland charge for heating water has also been are not enjoying the benefits that should increased-for all electricity used back to flow from this State's prosperous mining December last year. If that is not a rip-off industry. by the Government, I will go he. The Government's abolition of death duties The Government's decision on the Tarong will affect a large number of people. How­ Power Station has contributed to the increased ever, I do not believe that the number electricity tariffs. An article in "The Cour­ of persons so affected would be as high as ier-Mail" of 1 March 1978, reads- that affected by increases in liquor licence "Mr. Murray hinted there might be fees, with the resultant increase in the price further increases after this financial year of beer and spirits, and betting taxes. Motor when the money required to build the vehicle registration fees have already State's next power-station at Tarong began increased, and we have been told that from to flow." 1 July rail freights and fares will increase. The second report of the rationalisation com­ On top of that, we have seen an increase mittee to the Government on the reorganisa­ in electricity tariffs. This has been the great­ tion programme pointed out that the Govern­ est rip-off of all time. I am sure that all ment had to raise $1,260 million over 10 years honourable members will have received com­ from 1973 to 1983 because the industry had to plaints from their constituents about their be self-financing. Tariffs are the only way to electricity accounts. Recently I received my achieve that. As a result the people of electricity account, and I noticed that the Brisbane particularly, and those in the rest tariffs had sky-rocketed. I suppose I could of the State will be ripped off. I believe rightly claim that the increase in tariffs was that electricity tariffs will be increased again a sneaky move. On 30 June last year "The between now and the end of the year. Courier-Mail" reported that Cabinet had decided on Tuesday, 28 June, to take no The people of Queensland do not fully appreciate the extent to which they will be action on a recommendation by the State hit to pay for the Tarong Power Station. Electricity Commission for increased electric­ On 18 April, the Premier supposedly read a ity tariffs of 10 per cent for Brisbane and report which, I understand, was compiled about 7 per cent for the rest of the State. for him over the week-end. On 23 May 1978, Of course, last year was an election year. he refused to answer a question that was And why would the Government increase put to him about the Tarong Power House electricity tariffs in that year? I understand site and said- that the Electricity Commission was told it "That question was dealt with a long was a most inopportune time to do that, time ago. It is over; it is finalised, and particularly following the Government's no useful purpose can be served by trying decision to rationalise the electricity industry. to answer the honourable member's ques­ I point out that the Minister for Mines, tion." Energy and Police said, in answer to a question asked by the honourable member for What the Premier was trying to avoid was Ithaca, that the increase in electricity tariffs the fact that the Tarong Power Station will would mean an increase of only 1 per cent per definitely cost the people of this State much, year over 10 years, and might not even be much more than a power-station at Mill­ as much as that. However, electricity accounts merran. I believe that the Premier misled have increased by about 18 per cent. I the Parliament on 18 April. I emphasise appreciate that other factors contributed to that he did not table one bit of documentary 63225-44 1338 Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit)

evidence to support his claim that the Co­ I believe that the Premier has definitely set ordinator-General and some other depart­ out to mislead this Parliament and to mis­ mental officers had furnished him with the lead the State. In a few years' time we will facts and figures to support his allegations. be back in this Chamber to look for a lot He said- more money for Supply, because we will be "For instance, the Air Pollution Con­ running out of money again-particularly trol Division was not even consulted." around 1985, if the power-station is com­ menced before the end of this year. He went on to say- "The Air Pollution Control Division has In conclusion-! see that I have only a now advised that air pollution control costs few minutes left-I wish to make a few at either Tarong or Millmerran would be comments about the reply given to me yes­ similar, and I have that report." terday by the Minister for Primary Industries on behalf of the Minister for Mines, Energy I do not believe that he did have that report. and Police. I am sorry he is not here and I would like to see it and to have it tabled that he did not give me the reply himself. in the Parliament. I asked a very straightforward question. I want it understood quite clearly by the Min­ I have a report from the C.S.I.R.O., which ister for Mines and other Ministers that carried out tests on coal extracted from Tar­ when I ask a question in the House I am ong and Millmerran. That report does not genuine and I want a proper reply, not the substantiate the contentions of the Premier sort of garbage I was given by the Minister on 18 April. I table that report. yesterday. I felt sorry for the Minister for Whereupon the honourable member laid Primary Industries having to read the answer. the report on the table. In my question I asked- The fact is that the State Electricity " In view of the conflicting reports Commission held discussions with the received by the Government regarding the Environmental Control Council. The construction of the next coal-fired power­ State Electricity Commission also held station in Queensland"- discussions with the Federal Department no other power-station but- of the Environment and the State Depart­ "the next coal-fired power-station in ments of Health and Local Government. The Queensland, will he now commission some findings of those departments and the assess­ other competent independent body ... " ments of the State Electricity Commission because the Government had engaged the are contained in the report of the State Snowy Mountains Authority to conduct an Electricity Commission, which is available to independent inquiry into the Burdekin River every member of this Parliament-but not scheme- one document that the Premier allegedly had " ... such as the Electricity Commission of to substantiate his claim that the cost at New South, Wales to investigate those Tarong would be no more than the cost at reports ... Millmerran has been tabled by him. A lot of scoffing went on about the E.C. of I referred to the C.S.I.R.O. report, and N.S.W. but it does not make the same mis­ that was referred to in the S.E.C. report. I takes we appear to be making in Queens­ read from the report on page 24-- land. The New South Wales Premier accepts "Tests carried out on samples of coal the recommendations of the relevant bodies. from the three fields have revealed that He is not like the Premier in this State, who the fly ash from Tarong coal will be calls them dishonest and many other things. extremely difficult to collect in electro­ I only asked that those particular reports be static precipitators. investigated. "Quite expensive measures will be My question concluded- required to remove the fine ash particles " ... to ensure that the people of Queens­ from the boiler exhaust gas to meet air land can be supplied with a low-cost and pollution control levels and are estimated reliable electricity supply in the future?" to cost $17,000,000 more than for Mill­ Last night many Government members with merran or Wandoan." courage stood up and were counted. Many I point out that the C.S.I.R.O. report states others who lacked courage have to live with quite clearly that a power-station at Mill­ their consciences. merran would require only 40 per cent of The Minister did not answer my question. the equipment that would be necessary at Instead, he saw fit to say that I denigrated the Tarong, and much less than that required industry when I was assistant secretary of the at the Swanbank and Callide Power Stations. Electrical Trades Union. He said that I deni­ In his ministerial statement the Premier grated the employees. That is a gross untruth repeatedly made reference to how he and and a blatant distortion of the facts. members of the Cabinet had gone through The Minister said that I had made a state­ this. He said- ment that the Gladstone Power Station was "Step by step I have detailed how Cabi­ a white elephant. Certainly I did that in net analysed the S.E.C. report and found "The Courier-Mail" of 12 January 1977. I its assumptions wanting." firmly believed at that time and I believe now Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) 1339

that, to a great extent, the Gladstone Power that employment opportunities are increas­ Station was and still is not out of the woods ing and that the work-force increases each and is a white elephant. I do not deny that. year. He said I also said that power supply in Mr. Casey interjected. Queensland was in a perilous state. The people of Queensland do not know that every Mr. KNOX: I am not for a moment time a unit is running at the Gladstone Power denying that the percentage of the work-force Station comparable units are running down on unemployment relief and listed as here in case the Gladstone unit goes off load. unemployed is higher than normal, but we It is not reliable. should also keep in mind that the number (Time expired.) of people in work is higher than it was two or three years ago. And, of course, Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputy that is what would be expected. I fear that Premier and Treasurer) (3.43 p.m.), in reply: in our preoccupation with the subject of I thank honourable members for their contri­ unemployment we overlook the fact that bution to the debate, which has taken place there are thousands upon thousands of on two days. Queenslanders in permanent work and with­ I shall now deal with some of the mafters out any fears whatever for their future. that have been raised. The honourable mem­ But that does not absolve us from our ber for Bulimba and several other honourable responsibilities in providing employment members asked why it was necessary for this opportunities. Bill to be before the Committee three months The Government has in fact gone to some earlier than normal. In fact it is within the lengths to ensure that, within the limits period that is regarded as normal. It is rather of its resources, as many employment oppor­ interesting that Parliament is sitting a little tunities as possible are provided. Earlier later than normal this year and that the this week I advised 75 boards, local auth­ Government could have been expected not orities and semi-governmental bodies of their to bring the Bill down at all. Having gone loan moneys and subsidies so that they this far and not yet knowing the date on could continue forward planning for the which Parliament will meet later in the year next financial year and keep people in for the Budget session, it is safer-- employment. They require some assurance Mr. Houston: You don't know where you from the Treasurer that funds will continue are going. to be available, and that is why I made my announcement this week. This will Mr. KNOX: I do know where I am going. assist many of these bodies with their forward planning, and I am quite sure that It is safer to provide these funds now to they welcomed this advice. ensure that we have money until the Budget is introduced in September. It is prudent to The honourable member for Greenslopes have the proposal before the Committee at raised the matter of five-year planning. There this time. Judging by their contributions, is in fact a great deal of forward planning honourable members have welcomed the by the Government in many areas, par­ opportunity to debate matters that, because ticularly the spending of loan moneys by of the legislative programme, they would not departments such as the Irrigation and Water otherwise have been able to raise. Supply Commission, Co-ordinator-General, Main Roads and Treasury, and much of it Mr. Houston: They won't have the oppor­ is for periods much longer than five years. tunity at the start of the next session, or are This is a governmental and departmental you going to bring in another one? function. It is not necessarily a public Mr. KNOX: Members will have plenty of matter in the sense that it is tabled for all opportunity to raise matters when the Budget to see. Very often the revealing of such and the Estimates are discussed. planning leads only to confusion because people do not quite understand that such Mr. Houston: In October. long-term plans are subject to very short­ term alterations as a result of exigencies that Mr. KNOX: In September-October, which arise. There is, of course, in all construe" is normal. These funds will meet the needs of tion departments planning for much longer the State until the Budget is brought down. than five years, which is subject to review Quite naturally, questions have arisen con­ at frequent intervals so that all new circum­ cerning the extent of unemploymnet through­ stances can be accommodated. In fields out the State. This concerns the Government such as hospitals, schools, roads, long-term just as much as it concerns every person capital programmes for irrigation, and so in the community. I have said publicly, and on, I can assure the Committee that it is I say it again, that the level of unemployment not possible to allocate funds, either loan has been dropping. It is interesting to note moneys or Consolidated Revenue, without that the number of people in employment long-term planning and continuing commit­ in this State at this time of the year appears ments to the various projects that have been to exceed the corresponding number two or started. three years ago. Notwithstanding levels The honourable member for Bundaberg of unemployment expressed as percentages referred to irrigation works in his electorate. or even in absolute terms, the facts are It would not be possible to put aside funds 1340 Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) for that project unless there was long-term year, or at least the amount of money that is planning and an understanding of what was available for education has been increased reqUJretl each year. The rate of increase might not Mr. Powell: They don't want irrigation have been as great in recent years as it was works in Bundaberg. earlier, but in fact our contribution to education is quite impressive. The honour­ Mr. KNOX: I realise that. That is why I able member suggested that there has been referred to the honourable member for Isis a cut-back, but I am not aware of this. because I knew they were in the Isis area. Mr. Houston: That came from a docu­ But the honourable member for Bunda­ ment sent to parents by the principal of a berg alluded to it and pointed out that the school. Federal Government had closed off the funds, which, of course, is correct. I am Mr. KNOX: It is certainly not so for the very pleased to say that it opened its coffers total expenditure on education. I think what again as the result of strong representations the honourable member is referring to is made by the honourable member for Isis and that ceilings have been placed on the num­ various other people. bers of certain types of teachers who can be employed and on the ratio of pupils to Mr. Blake: You give us the water and teachers. we'll fight over the boundaries. Mr. Houston interjected. Mr. KNOX: The honourable member does not mind drinking it. Mr. KNOX: It is down to 28. This is a result of planning, and so I Mr. Houston: That is not what the Minis­ assure the honourable member for Green­ ter said in reply to a question of mine. He slopes that in fact long-term planning is did not indicate it was down to 28 at all. carried out in regard to State works. Mr. KNOX: It has dropped from 32 to The honourable member for Bulimba made 28 in the last couple of years. some reference to families with two incomes. I am not exactly sure what he was alluding Mr. Houston: It is back up again. to, except that families with two incomes are obviously taking up some of the employment Mr. KNOX: Well, when the annual report opportunities. comes out, we will probably discover the real figure. Mr. Houston: I referred to the financial structure. You've got some families with Mr. Houston interjected. practically no income and you have other Mr. KNOX: There are a number of families with a double income, and I am empty class-rooms in our primary schools. not criticising one or the other. You get a bigger margin now between the employed Mr. Houston: That is because of the shift and unemployed than you did in years gone of population. by when you had the one unit at work. Mr. KNOX: Yes, and we should keep that Mr. KNOX: That is so. Of course, when in mind. There is a shortage of class-rooms a bread-winner, and I am speaking of a in some areas because of the growth of single-income family, becomes unemployed, population. this creates a very serious social problem for The honourable member also raised the the people involved. It is true, as the hon­ question of borrowing money from overseas. ourable member said in his speech, that when I should dwell on this subject for a moment more than one member of the family is because several members have taken an employed there is a cushioning effect. But interest in it. With the new guide-lines that this does not overcome the problem when have been laid down by the Loan Council, the sole bread-winner is unemployed and which, of course, are the consensus of the that, I think, is the most serious part of the States and the Commonwealth, it is now unemployment story. possible for the States to individually raise The next most serious would probably be funds in various parts of the world with the young school-leavers who are unemployed. approval of the Loan Council and subject to But I would hope that the Commonwealth veto by the Commonwealth. Employment Service people are selective and I might say that we are not at all happy offer jobs to bread-winners in single-income about the veto provisions and have protested families, or at least give them some degree about them. Because of the need to get of priority, in order to try to solve the social on with the job, we have not hesitated in problem that exists while they remain seeking a further discussion on that question, unemployed. But these are matters outside and the Commonwealth agreed to it on the my influence, and I trust that that is one understanding that it will be reviewed in of the ways the Commonwealth Employ­ two years. Indeed, it will be a subject­ ment Service uses its "sensitive" approach to matter for debate at the next Premiers' the unemployment problem. conference. Allocations to schools have not been cut The opportunity for the States to now back. I am not sure what the honourable go abroad and negotiate their own loans member meant when he said that, but alloca­ is going to be taken advantage of by all tions to schools have been expanded every States. 1 am quite sure of that. Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) 1341

Mr. Houston: Will that give them more risk in the exchange rate disappears because loan money overall? we are paying out in the same currency as we are being paid. This is a special arrange­ Mr. KNOX: That is the intention. ment which may not obtain in some other Mr. Houston: How much more? loans, which may have to be in other cur­ rencies. It will always depend on the Mr. KNOX: Because the Loan Council circumstances and on who is going to take will control it, that is not known at this the risks that are involved in the exchange stage. Loans cannot be sought without the rate. approval of the Loan Council. The guide­ lines are there to assist us and the lenders It must be kept in mind that there is in understanding the rules. plenty of money available around the world that can be borrowed at 5 per cent, but Mr. Casey: 'When there is competition somebody is going to have to take the risk between two States, do you think that is in regard to changes in exchange rates and likely to push interest rates up? very often that could mean another two or three per cent. Mr. KNOX: No, I don't. There are other factors that work in the world to push Mr. Houston: You can't judge just on interest rates up. We are inclined to take one loan. our own country for granted because this country is one of the few in the world where Mr. KNOX: Exactly; you can't. That is people and financial institutions of other why some care has to be taken in negotiat­ nations want to invest. I could not imagine ing these loans. While there may be many anybody wanting to invest funds in some of willing lenders, I can assure honourable the countries that are in conflict at the members that this State and other States moment. Certainly the stability of this are not going to be capricious or irrespons­ country, in spite of our individual opinions ible. We are not going to allow it, anyway, about the politics of various Governments, because of the Loan Council rules about is such that it has a very good reputation about not borrowing and making commit­ in the financial centres of the world which ments which are too open-ended. We will we should be able to take advantage of. have to be very careful about the exchange rates and the risks involved. Apart from As so many bankers who come to see me the negotiating ability of the individual say, they have people who want to lend States, the Reserve Bank and the Federal money to Australia or in Australian pro­ exchange control people have some say in jects because they know that they are going the matter, in fact a very big say. Not to get their money back. They are interested for one moment do I believe that Australia not only in getting interest on their money, will suddenly be flooded with thousands of but also in the certainty of eventually get­ millions of dollars from these sources. ting their capital back. This may be a strange thing to say, but there are countries Mr. Houston: There are plenty of 5 per where there are doubts about lenders' get­ cent offers? ting their capital back. We can understand Mr. KNOX: Yes, plenty of them; but the their concern. There are a number of coun­ tries in the world that want to lend money to money has to come from sources that we Australian projects because they know this can properly handle. All States have to is a stable country and that we honour our agree. We have to submit our story to all promises and obligations. Vve have com­ other States, and if all States agree the mercial integrity and we have political stab­ matter is approved. A lot of people will be ility. looking over our shoulders and we will be looking over everybody else's shoulder at It is important to have this standing and what is negotiated and the terms that are we are grateful that such a situation exists obtained. The system will contain a lot of in Australia. That is whv the States are checks and balances. This must be so. In able to take advantage of the opportunity to fact, in the interest of the nation's financial borrow substantial sums at better interest welfare and stability, we have all insisted rates and terms than are available on the on it. Australian market or from our traditional sources. I believe that the process involved will be Mr. Houston: If we borrow, will it be at something like this: next week we are enter. the Australian rate, or will it be like it was ing into the Tokyo loan, by which we will with the mining companies when we were be able to make a contribution to our sugar caught with North American capital? industry; it could well be that in a few months' time we will enter into an arrange­ Mr. KNOX: It will depend on the cir­ ment for funding the consturction of a tunnel cumstances of each case. I can talk about or bridge across the river, which will be the special case of lending from the Bank an entirely different type of negotiation; and of Tokyo for our sugar installations, which possibly in a year's time we will enter into will be the first of these loans to be negotiated negotiations for funds for a power-station, under these terms, the very first one in which might be an entirely different opera­ Australia since about 1921. This loan, tion again. This financing can be obtained in of course, wiii be in yen because our sugar a number of different ways. It certainly won't is being paid for in yen. This will look after all come at once, in one week, in one month the problem of the exchange rate. The or in one year. 1342 Supply [31 MAY 1978) (Vote of Credit)

The fact is that enormous interest is being A number of honourable members referred shown in Australia by lending institutions of to the condition of roads. Each year funds good reputation and standing. Because of are apportioned from loan moneys and else­ the developmental programmes and progress where for road-works. Last year we provided of Western Australia and Queensland, very special interest is being shown in us. This the Main Roads Commission with extra is most welcome indeed. money for roads from Consolidated Revenue. That was an unusual procedure, but it was Mr. Houston: Is there any thought of very desirable. All honourable members will the Government sponsoring the borrowing agree that the building of new roads and of money for private companies to use in road maintenance should have high priority. developmental works? I am thinking of state­ ments made by Government spokesmen We cannot allow roads to fall into a state regarding a bridge over the lower reaches of disrepair simply because funds for main­ of the river. tenance are not as plentiful as in the past. The increase in loan moneys for all States Mr. KNOX: I would remind the honour­ in the past two years has nowhere near able member that last year when presenting provided for the normal increase in demand. my Financial Statement I said that there existed an opportunity to enter into a franch­ The honourable members for Bundaberg ise agreement for a cross-river link for which and Nudgee spoke about increased charges, private entrepreneurs could find finance. It and the fact that there were no increases last could be found in a number of ways. For year. In April last year the Queensland and example, they could find all of the finance, other State Governments were asked to which would mean that, if the money comes participate in the prices/wages pause. We from outside the country, they would have to did so quite willingly and received tremendous get the approval of the Reserve Bank and co-operation from private enterprise. Queens­ the exchange control people. Frankly, I land was very fortunate that its affairs were think that some of the money could come so managed that it could announce a three from within Australia. The lenders would months' moratorium on increases in Govern­ derive their rewards from a toll charged ment charges. In fact, we were quite prepared on the bridge or tunnel. Alternatively, to do that for the whole period. It will be the project could well be financed from recalled that South Australia was the first outside the country with the lenders linking State to abandon the wages/prices pause. up with an engineering or a construction Once the pause was abandoned in South firm. A number of people are interested Australia, it was difficult to maintain it in doing this. Of course, the Government elsewhere. would have to take some interest by way of a Government guarantee. In fact such When South Australia made its a venture would require legislation to be announcement, Queensland said that it would passed by this House to look after the hold its charges until the end of the calendar financial arrangements. Of course, it would year, and that is what it did. Queensland was have to come within the guide-lines laid the only State in Australia not to increase down by the Loan Council and it would Government charges from April until the require the approval of the Commonwealth end of the calendar year. I am sure that the and the other States. Government's action contributed to a lessen­ ing of the impact on the C.P.I. Although we Mr. Houston: It would still require that? received many requests from many depart­ Mr. KNOX: Yes. ments to increase charges to maintain services, we did not accede to them. Many Mr. Houston: You cannot get money Government services require a charge in in to help private companies? order that they may be maintained; in other Mr. KNOX: If it looks like loan moneys words, they are self-sufficient services. I can or part of our allocation, it must go through think of a multitude of them-some great, those hoops. In those circumstances, I and others not-which require funds to be think the other States and the lender would able to continue them. The funds must come require legislation to be passed by this Par­ from the charges imposed. It was always liament. What I said in September last year intended that the pause would apply for the about the prospects of getting finance for calendar year, and that the normal pressures the coss-river link will be realised within a would then have their effect. reasonable time. The honourable members for Bundaberg The honourable member for Port Curtis and Isis spoke about the problems in the raised special problems concerning the Glad­ sugar industry. We are all familiar with them. stone City Council. I do not intend to Indeed, I have taken a special interest in deal with them here. I understand that the them. I assure honourable members that the honourable member was formerly mayor of fortunes of the sugar industry are very much Gladstone, so he would have an intimate linked \Vith the fortunes of the State Budget. knowledge of the matters that he discussed. A healthy sugar industry has a very impres­ I am not familiar with them. However, if sive effect on the State Budget, while a he is aware of any problems, he should depressed one is similarly reflected in the bring them to the notice of the Minister for Budget. Everything that we can do to Local Government and Main Roads. ensure a buoyant, prosperous sugar industry Supply [31 MAY 1978] (Vote of Credit) 1343

is vitally important socially and economically doubt if anybody else could do it as well. to the people of the State and to the State's Could anybody even dream of naming a body accounting. that could do it as well as CSR? I am pleased to note that the problems Mr. Casey: The company itself has side­ facing the sugar industry are being resolved, tracked those fellows-- although they were far more difficult than was originally thought. Contracts with Mr. KNOX: The honourable member Malaysia and Japan had to be renegotiated. should not confuse the company's problems Although the industry has not obtained what with its role as a negotiator on behalf of it sought on the domestic sugar price, it the Sugar Board. certainly achieved better results than seemed possible a few weeks ago. The increase of Water resources are terribly important. We $30 a tonne will help considerably, although have to find funds and, if we cannot find it is far short of what the industry requires. them out of loan moneys, we will have to again find some funds from Consolidated Let us remember that the sugar industry Revenue to supplement that shortage, as we has been responsible in its attitude to price have done in the last 18 months. I would increases. It was able to subsidise manu­ hope that some of the money that is sought facturing industries in this country as a to be invested in this country from overseas result of having access to the high-priced might well be applied to the water-conserva­ world market and has been doing so, but that tion and irrigation schemes that we have on situation does not obtain at the moment and the drawing board. That, I think, would be has not obtained for some little while. The a major contribution to the de_velopment of result is that a little extra pressure has to the State. be put on the domestic market. It is not The honourable member for Isis has raised unreasonable for those in the sugar industry matters today which he raised with me yester­ to seek these price increases when they have day during my visit to his electorate. I was been so patient over the past few years. They very impressed with what is going on in his did not seek increases when they did not electorate, though I was somewhat concerned need to do so. I think they have been very at the extent of the drought, which can so responsible about it. easily be misunderstood. One sees so much It is a pity that those outside the State that is green, little realising that everything who do not understand the industry are in­ is stunted because of the region's poor rain­ clined to adopt a negative attitude towards fall. Comparatively speaking, the region an industry that has demonstrated its appears to be a bit of a desert at the moment. responsibility-unlike many manufacturing To the untrained eye-to those who are not industries in Australia which have had price used to the sight of it-everything looks very increases in their products every three months green. However, the cane is suffering as a or so. It may possibly be a lesson to the result of much lower rainfall than usual. In sugar industry that, whatever it has done fact, the cane industry in that area faces a for the nation, nobody is thanking it. It is very depressed future. That was quite clearly time that it educated the nation a little more explained to me yesterday by the honourable about what it has done to keep prices down. member. I thank him for his advice and education on this matter. A member is able A trade office will be opened in Japan. to assist his area by acquainting his Treasurer However, the fact that it has not been opened with the problems. What I did discover is ~!as not prejudiced the sugar industry. CSR that he does not have any bad roads in his ~td. is the agent for the Sugar Board, and electorate. m the last 12 months or so representatives ?f that company have been virtually living Mr. Powell: I only took you over the m Japan. I understand that it, too, will open good ones. a permanent office in Japan. Mr. KNOX: He now suggests that there Mr. Casey: Not before time. It might do are some bad roads, and I have no doubt a decent job now. that he will be pursuing that with the Minister. Mr. KNOX: CSR has always done an excellent job on behalf of the board. I do The honourable member for Woodridge not think that the honourable member for again seems to be dealing with the T.A.B. and Mackay does any good for himself by making saying that he has no rude things to say derogatory remarks about CSR in its capacity about past members of the board. He then as agent for the board. proceeds to cast a slur on the board by refer­ ring to contractual arrangements made by Mr. Casey: Is that why it sacked two of the members and officers of that board and their highest officers in the sugar deal? the approvals given by the Minister at the time (Sir Gordon Chalk). The honourable Mr. KNOX: Whatever those circumstances member keeps making these statements in the are, they do not concern me. What does Chamber, yet he claims through the media­ concern me is that they are very reputable and I do not know whether the public realise and competent negotiators on behalf of the that he does this-that he is in possession of sugar industry. They have had a tremendous information that shows that certain people amount of success because of their diligence are involved in transactions not in accord­ in handling these contractual negotiations. I ance with good commercial practice. 1344 Supply (31 MAY 1978) (Vote of Credit)

Having said that several times through the Mr. KNOX: It takes some time to collate media, he then comes into this Chamber and the information and get to me. I am satisfied, will not give any indication at all of the as I was last week, that there is no connection. nature of that information; nor will he pro­ Mr. Houston: It was rather prompt action vide it to me so that I can do something on your part if you believed there was no about it. It is over a week since he made those public statements and not one shred of cause for worry. information has he placed in my hands so Mr. KNOX: If the honourable member for that I can take the next step in having it Bulimba were Treasurer, which he is never examined. This can be done in confidence; likely to be, and a firm had contractual there is no problem about confidentiality. This troubles with two State authorities-the information can be examined by the legal T.A.B. in Victoria and the T.A.B. in Queens­ officers of the Crown Law Office to see if we laud-and he read in the newspaper that should go one step further. That is the principals of the same firm were on trial in proper procedure, as every honourable mem­ America for alleged bribery to obtain con­ ber knows. On two occasions the honourable tracts, wouldn't he deem it prudent to make member for Woodridge has come into the inquiries? I made those inquiries in a pru­ Chamber and made statements. His failure to dent manner. provide the information which is essential before any further steps can be taken is a Mr. Houston: But you should not pass dereliction of his duty. Indeed it is irrespon­ judgment, as you have done. sible. He is misleading the public because he keeps on saying through the media that he Mr. KNOX: I passed judgment because I has this information and people are wonder­ made private inquiries through unofficial ing when something will happen. sources to ascertain whether there was any possible connection between the trials in Mr. Houston: Did you say that you were the U.S.A. and circumstances in Australia going to get in touch with the American and I have been assured that there is none. people to find out the court's decision and The documents that I will eventually receive what it is all about? will, I believe, confirm that belief. I have taken what I regard as prudent action in Mr. KNOX: Yes. As soon as the informa­ this matter and the information that I have tion was published in the Australian Press received does not suggest that I should sus­ about four or five weeks ago-the very day pect that anything is amiss. I am sure it appeared-! sent a message off to the honourable members opposite would agree United States Consul, who said he would use that it was wise for me to make the neces­ his best offices and endeavours to obtain the sary inquiries. In fact, the honourable mem­ information I sought. Like a number of other ber for Bulimba would have been the first honourable members, I know that there is no to criticise me if I had not made inquiries. relationship at all between the bribery charges and the trials in America involving Mr. Houston: I think you should speed Control Data and the Australian circum­ it up so you can clear the decks completely. stances. Mr. KNOX: I am clearing the decks Mr. Houston: Why did you write to them? right now. I am satisfied that there is Mr. KNOX: Because I wanted to get the nothing amiss. documentation. I do not want to rely on Mr. Mackenroth: You are saying that you second-hand newspaper reports or telephone are making sure there is nothing wrong? conversations that I have had with people. I want to get the documentation which is avail­ Mr. KNOX: What should I do? Does able. As soon as I obtain it, it will be looked the honourable member suggest that I should at. I believe that it will confirm what I not find out these things? already know-that there is no connection whatsoever between the Australian concern Mr. Mackenroth: No. and the bribery trials in America involving Mr. KNOX: I am glad he agrees with me, Control Data. because that is what we are doing. The honourable member for Woodridge, though, keeps on alluding to this matter and Mr. Casey: Why aren't you one of the trying to suggest that these people in Aus­ Ministers who are going overseas? tralia must be in the same category. At the Mr. KNOX: I think the honourable mem­ beginning of his speech today he said that he ber for Mackay should look after his own had fond memories of members of the board who were very distinguished citizens. Then he problems. If he sorted them out, he might proceeded to suggest that what happened with be in a position to advise others. Control Data in America must have hap­ The honourable member for Redlands pened in Australia. Frankly, it is not good raised certain matters relating to land tax enough for a member to behave in that fash­ and asked that sympathetic consideration be ion and it is certainly not good enough for given to raising the exemption levels for me, our legal officers or any authority to land tax. That matter will be kept under take the matter any further. consideration. Mr. Houston: Don't you think the Americ­ The honourable member for Nudgee took ans arc taking a long time to reply to your the opportunity to criticise electricity charges request? and power-station costs. He also raised the Supply (Vote of Credit) [31 MAY 1978] V.I.P. Insurances, &c., Bill 1345 question of Tarong and Millmerran. He to exercise vetoes, and so on, but I assure tended to overlook that the cost of a power­ honourable members that the finances of this station would be the same whether it was State are in excellent shape and that we are built at Tarong or Millmerran. In fact, the running a tight ship. cost of a power-station would be the same Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. if erected on any of about six locations. That fact should be kept in mind. In the argu­ Resolution reported, received, and agreed ment over sites, it is overlooked that the to. cost of the power-station would be the same if it yvere constructed on any one of seven or eight sites that were considered. WAYS AND MEANS Mr. Vaughan: What about the CoMMITTEE $259 ,000,000? VOTE OF CREDIT-$1,125,000,000 Mr. KNOX: That shows that the honour­ (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. able member for Nudgee does not listen. Hewitt, Greenslopes, in the chair) When the Minister spoke on this matter he Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputv pointed out that the estimate of the cost Premier and Treasurer): I move- • of the power-station included an error of plus or minus 20 per cent. If it turned out "(a) That, towards making good the to be a minus 20 per cent error, everyone Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, would say that the right decision had been for the service of the year 1978-79, a made; but if it prayed to be a plus 20 per further sum not exceeding $470,000,000 be cent error, everyone would say that it was granted out of the Consolidated Revenue a wrong decision. That information was as Fund of Queensland exclusive of the correct as it could be in the li<>ht of the moneys standing to the credit of the Loan ci~cumstances that obtained and "bearing in Fund Account. mmd that the projection extended 15 to 20 "(b) That, towards making good the years ahead. Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, for the service of the year 1978-79, a Mr. F~mras: Are you suggesting that we further sum not exceeding $560,000,000 be are wastmg money doing surveys and that granted from the Trust and Special Funds. sort of thing? You are talking about large errors. "(c) That, towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, Mr. KNOX: They are not errors. The for the service of the year 1978-79, a honourable member for South Brisbane is further sum not exceeding $95,000,000 be a trained scientist and I am quite sure that granted from the moneys standing to the he, as an intelligent, well-educated person, credit of the Loan Fund Account." has an understanding of estimating. It is Motion agreed to. n~t possible for. any authority, engineer or scientist to predict, with a degree of accur­ Resolutions reported, received, and agreed acy within the dictionary definition of that to. ~vord, exactly \':hat the cost will be. Only m retrospect w1ll one know the degree of accuracy that obtained. Those who com­ APPROPRIATION BILL (No. 1) pile su_ch estimates do so responsibly and ALL STAGES professwnally, and they point out that degrees of error in their figures must be A Bill founded on the Resolutions was taken into account because it is not pos­ introduced and passed through all its stages sible to be precise about the actual amounts without amendment or debate. involved. They point out that there are possi~le variations of plus or minus 20 per cent m many of their estimates. Those are V.I.P. INSURANCES LIMITED (MOTOR substan!ial . amounts, and only when the VEHICLES INSURANCE) BILL whole JOb IS over will we know how close SECOND READING the estimate was to the mark. The honourable member also referred to Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputy Premier and Treasurer) (4.31 p.m.): I ot.her ~alters. _I trust that the opportunity Will anse for h1m to discuss them later in move- the year during the Estimates debate or the "That the Bill be now read a second Budget debate, when the Minister will be time." back on deck and able to debate them with The Bill provides for a rescue operation to him. be initiated through the Nominal Defendant I thank honourable members for their (Queensland) in regard to the failure of interest. All I would say is that the State's V.I.P. Insurances Limited to comply with ~nances are in good shape. The running of a the provisions of the Commonwealth Insur­ t1ght Budget-and it is a tight Budget year­ ance Act 1973. is a very responsible task and poses special The rescue relates to compulsory third difficulties. Very often a Treasurer becomes party motor vehicle insurance in that it unpopular with his colleagues when he has applies to claims for damages in respect of 1346 V.l.P. lnsurances, &c., Bill [31 MAY 1978] Racing and Betting, &c., Bill accidental bodily injury (fatal or non-fatal) reason to disbelieve them." For that matter, to any person caused before 4.30 p.m. on 19 neither I nor the Minister would have had April 1978 in any State or Territory of the any reason at that stage to disbelieve them. Commonwealth of Australia by, through or The point is, however, that a large number in connection with a motor vehicle insured of people like to have all their insurance under the Motor Vehicles Insurance Act taken out with the one company, whether it 1936-1975 at the material time with V.I.P. is S.G.I.O., National Mutual or any other Insurances Limited. company. I suggest that second-hand car Under the Bill, the Nominal Defendant dealers, who are responsible for the transfer (Queensland) will have, to the exclusion of of registration and third party insurance, the company, the same duties, liabilities, give details to purchasers of insurance com­ rights and powers in respect of these claims panies that are prepared to give third party as were formerly possessed by the company. cover. Perhaps a notice could be displayed in their office. The awareness of the public Other provisions of the Bill are similar to has to be stressed. those included in rescue legislation which unfortunately has had to be presented in Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. this House in the past. There is a minor error in the Bill. It COMMITTEE occurs in clause 9 on page 3, line 34. The (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. word "personal" at the end of that line Hewitt, Greenslopes, in the chair) should be deleted, and I shall move an amendment at the appropriate stage to that Clauses 1 to 8, both inclusive, as read, effect. agreed to. I am sure it is appreciated that every pos­ Clause 9-Particulars of claim to be fur­ sible step has been taken to deal with the nished to Nominal Defendant- problems that will undoubtedly follow the V.I.P. collapse but I must again stress to Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputy those members of the public who were Premier and Treasurer): I move the follow­ insured for third party cover with V.I.P. that ing amendment- they should reinsure with another company "On page 3, line 34, omit the word 'per­ forthwith if they have not already done so. sonal'." I commend the Bill to the House. Amendment agreed to. Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) (4.34 p.m.): As Clause 9, as amended, agreed to. the Opposition indicated during the introduc­ tory stage, we support the rescue operation Clauses 10 to 13, both inclusive, as read, because we believe that no Queenslander agreed to. should be disadvantaged, particularly when it Bill reported, with an amendment. is a compulsory third party cover that they had to take out. They certainly should not be disadvantaged because of the failure of a THIRD READING particular insurance company such as this Bill, on motion of Mr. Knox, by leave, one. I notice that awards made by courts read a third time. run into hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not arguing the rights or wrongs of the size of third party awards, but it is not very RACING AND BETTING ACT difficult to imagine what would happen to AMENDMENT BILL any person, no matter how wealthy he might be, who is not covered by third party SECOND READING insurance and has a huge award for dam­ ages made against him. He would have to Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputy pay the award as well as the legal costs Premier and Treasurer) ( 4.40 p.m.): I involved. Naturally the Opposition supports move- the Minister in this rescue operation. 'Ve "That the Bill be now read a second also support his words of advice to those time." owners whose vehicles were insured by V.I.P. Insurances to ensure that they are The Bill provides for the Mackay Trotting covered by another insurance company. Club to race on Wednesday afternoons as part of a scheme to maintain trotting in that I want to make one comment that is not citv. It allows for on-course trifecta and strictly covered by the Minister's portfolio. trio betting in anticipation of the delivery of It concerns public awareness in the matter a mobile computer tote system. It extends of third party insurance cover. A great $1 win and place betting to all totalisators number of motorists do not know which by raising the unit of investment for dividend insurance company covers them against third calculations to the $1 level and it creates an party claims. I asked quite a number of per­ opportunity for bookmakers at Albion Park sons who rang me about the V.I.P. Insurances to bet on southern greyhound events. collapse why they selected that company. Invariably the answer was, "The dealers we There would appear to be very little dis­ bought the second-hand car from said that agreement with the amendments set out in that company was all right. We had no the Bill. Racing and Betting [31 MAY 1978] Act Amendment Bill 1347

The honourabe member for Bulimba called in other forms of horse-racing. Like me, for a less restrictive racing calendar and he some people like all forms of racing and, mentioned that the Government would need given the opportunity, I would patronise to watch closely the ability of clubs to finance all forms of racing. However, the clientele an extension of facilities such as mobile which patronises one form of racing usually on-course computerised totalisators. Both of does not patronise others. The Opposition is these points will be thoroughly considered in quite happy to support the request made by the review process but it will be noticed that the Mackay club. it per cent of the proposed tax on trifectas The Opposition is not at all happy about and trios to be conducted in the metropolitan the increase in the minimum win and place area and at Ipswich on a Saturday will go to bet from 50c to a dollar, and we intend the Racecourse Development and Assistance voting against it. I do not accept the argu­ Fund, from which new facilities can be ment of the T.A.B. as justification. I am not financed. suggesting that the figures relayed by the Apart from that, the additional return to Treasurer from the T.A.B. are inaccurate. clubs of bookmakers' turnover tax and the I am not questioning them at all. However, supplementary distributions made by the the T.A.B. was set up to do two things­ Government in recent vears do indicate that firstly, to give the people living away from the monitoring of the- finances of clubs is racetracks an opportunity to bet legally, not alive and responsive. having to go to S.P. operators, and, secondly, so that those who had a bet away from The $1 minimum for win and place invest­ racetracks could contribute something ments has been well canvassed but the towards the running of the various racing honourable member's appeal that variations sports. I think that they were the two aims. to T.A.B. minimum bets be made part of the Act will be looked at during the review. I will not go over all that I said at the introductory stage. The fact is that there are I have noted the opinions of the honour­ many people in our community who want to able members for Archerfield and Brisbane make a 50c bet. We are now saying to Central in regard to the metropolitan trotting people in the lower income bracket that club betting situation and those of the they cannot do so. The Treasurer himself honourable member for Cooroora on the gave me the figures. He said- question of a racing venue on the Sunshine Coast. "With 50c bets making up approxi­ mately 39 per cent of the win/place tickets Finally, the comments expressed by the issued by the T.A.B. but representing only honourable member for Woodridge on the 10 per cent of the total win/place turn­ administration of the T.A.B. have been dealt over, it became obvious that changes had with separately. to be made." Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) (4.43 p.m.): As That shows that 39 per cent of the people the Treasurer pointed out the Bill relates to who go to the windows-- four main matters. The provision by which trotting will be held in Mackay on Wednes­ Mr. Knox: 39 per cent of the trans­ day conforms with my view that no restric­ actions. tion should be imposed on when clubs con­ duct meetings; they must remain solvent. Mr. HOUSTON: Yes, 39 per cent of the turnover. The fact is that the bets could be We are changing the night on which meet­ made by individuals or could be made col­ ings can be held because Friday night was lectively by one person. not a paying proposition. Rightly a change was requested. As I said at the outset, if I went to the two agencies in my area and clubs were given a chance to stand on their spoke to people there who I believe are on own feet and conduct meetings that suited lower incomes. From the number of tickets the paying public, the sport of racing would they had, it was quite obvious that they be better off. We do not tell football, bowls were having quite a few 50c each-way bets. or other clubs when they will conduct their Their reaction was one of hostility. They meetings. The patrons really decide when can't get their views in the newspaper. How meetings will be held. In this instance, I can they make public their views? They know, gambling is involved, but that should felt they had to do one of two things: cut not make any difference to conducting down on the number of horses they had bets meetings at times to suit the paying public. on or take money from another source. To them, that is their recreation. They cannot Mr. Davis interjected. get to the meetings. Mr. HOUSTON: They attend the various I think it works out at a very small sports but, as I said, it is about time the amount that it would cost the T.A.B. to Government made an in-depth survey of provide this service-maybe I !c. The whether the people who patronise one racing Treasurer gave me the figures. However, the sport patronise another. I am sure it would point is that it is a service. After all, in be found that certain categories of people ordinary commerce a shopkeeper will sell attend one racing sport only and have no one item at a loss but he knows that he will interest in the others. Perhaps the people pick it up from others because he has who attend the gallops would be interested brought people into his shop. 1348 Racing and Betting [31 MAY 1978} Act Amendment Bill

The T.A.B. suggested to the Treasurer that board and a racing board, I very much doubt it cost 6.3c to handle every 50c win and that it could happen, because of the com­ place ticket. But that is under existing con­ pletely different administration. ditions. One of the reasons for installing the The point I am getting to is that the computer was surely to cut down operating T.A.B. distribution is used largely by all race costs. I believe that the T.A.B. is asking for clubs to carry on and to help finance their this measure to minimise its financial prob­ enterprise. A request was made by the lems caused by the failure of the computer galloping clubs for an amount to be allo­ company to fulfil its contract. I do not think cated off the top of the T.A.B. distribution that that should be passed on to the small to the principal club because of its adminis­ punter. That is the main reason we are tration expenditure, such as the cost of pro­ opposing this measure. I think it is com­ viding stewards. It might be quite a legit­ pletely out of time, particularly when it is imate argument. But if that club is entitled considered that the New South Wales T.A.B. to it, certainly the Greyhound Board of has only recently changed from a 25c unit to Control and the Trotting Board of Control a 50c unit. What about people holidaying should be included as principal clubs and be on the coast who like a few bets? They given some of the money off the top. If it can go over to New South Wales and have a is given to one, the legislation should be 50c win/place bet, whereas Queensland will amended to allow the others to get it as demand a dollar bet. Of course, it will be a well. dollar bet on the racecourses as well. Many questions were being asked after the seminar about why the Government decided I have not had an opportunity to talk to that it is all right for galloping to be the people on the track about it; but those controlled by the principal club system under I do know-particularly women who go to which the officers of the principal club do the the races with their husbands-are quite work in an honorary capacity. They do a very content to have a little flutter. Their hus­ good job. They are men of high repute bands might bet in larger amounts. I am in the community and in the racing world. sure that the Minister has mixed with rank­ They are not paid at all. In the case of and-file racegoers and would know that greyhound racing and trotting, these services many women are quite happy to make a 50c have to be financed from their own resources. place bet or to invest 50c each way without It seems to me that the two less-financial wanting to become part of the gambling sports have to carry the heavier burdens in scene. To them it is only a little flutter. In paying for their administration. fact quite a few women pool their money so The Minister said at the outset that this was that they can have bets. So I believe that virtually a stopgap measure and that he has the Bill is not in the general interest and to give consideration to the administration the Opposition will oppose it. of the various clubs and to make up his mind whether he supports the administrative The Minister conducted a racing seminar board system or the principal club system. last Friday. As I said at the introductory It might be a good idea to put this matter stage it is a good idea to get together the to the various clubs at the next seminar people who have a common sport so that so that greyhound racing and trotting clubs they can discuss their problems. Although I believe it turned into a seminar on could have some say in the way they are to galloping races rather than on racing gener­ meet the costs associated with the running ally, it was still worth while. Similar get­ of their sport. Greyhound racing and trotting togethers would help tremendously in the clubs have to pay $26,000 or even more for framing of new legislation and the new the operations of boards, whilst galloping administration. I understand that the Min­ clubs have no such costs. I think it is com­ ister has received many submissions that pletely unfair that moneys should be distri­ will make him think carefully before arriv­ buted to principal clubs but not to boards. ing at a final decision. There is another matter I should like to raise that deals with the operations of the What suited one type of racing didn't suit T.A.B. In fact, I asked a question on it in another type of racing. Those who supported the House today. The T.A.B. operates on the galloping clubs spoke of retaining the southern events on Monday, Tuesday and principal club system. This has operated for Friday as well as its normal operations on years. Wednesday and, in many cases, on Thurs­ day, and on Monday, Tuesday and Friday In the Brisbane area the Q.T.C. has been it is quite happy to have all agencies open. conducting the affairs. I wonder whether, On those days greyhound racing meetings are if the Q.T.C. had been a board of control, we held either in or near Brisbane. would have had the problem referred to in "Sunday Sun" and headed, "Smith's angry I cannot see why the T.A.B. cannot also blast at Tindall." It was suggested in the operate on those meetings. It would cost article that a racehorse at the barrier had a little more to handle these bets but all the some plates removed. It was claimed that facilities are available and basic costs such this could have affected the horse's per­ as rent, electricity, telephone and other fixed formance. That type of thing happens under charges would remain the same. I venture the principal club system. Whether it could to say that the extra staff required to take happen under a board system I do not know. bets on greyhound racing would be minimal If we had a trotting board, a greyhound indeed. Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill 1349

This would be advantageous for the clubs for purposes connected therewith and for and it would give the public an opportunity the adjustment of the boundaries of the to follow their choices. Those who follow Shires of Albert, Beaudesert and Redland." galloping races can, in the main, bet on their The ·basic purpose of this Bill, as stated in favourites with the T.A.B. or on the course the long title, is to provide for the creation whenever they start. In the case of trotting of a proposed new shire of Logan, involving and, to a greater extent, greyhound racing, adjustments of the boundaries of the exist­ unless the animal is racing at Albion Park, ing shires of Albert, Beaudesert and Redland. the Gabba or Redcliffe a person has no The creation of a new local authority in this chance of getting a bet on it at its next star,t. fast-growing area on the southern outskirts If the T.A.B. operated on such meetings, of the Brisbane metropolitan area has long people could place bets on their favourites. been sought by community interests in the I know that officers of the T.A.B. argued, region, and the Bill will give effect to repre­ when greyhound racing was conducted at sentations in that respect. The Bill before Lawnton, that taking bets on greyhounds was the Committee is the result of quite extensive a failure. On my interpretation of the word, consultation involving elected representatives it was not a failure. Now that there have of the region (at State and local government been further developments in the operations levels) and representations and submissions, of the T.A.B., I believe that what I suggest over a long period, from numerous public could be done, particularly when the agencies bodies and private citizens of the area. are open anyway, and there would be fewer As a former chairman of the Albert Shire reasons for talking about increasing the Council whose area embraced part of the minimum bet. region now proposed to be constituted as The Opposition supports the proposals for the new shire of Logan, I am very mindful Mackay. We also support the introduction of the potential of the area. In my view, of trio and trifecta betting. These are new and in the view of the Government, the pro­ forms of betting to Queensland but they are posed new shire of Logan will be a very well known in other States. In fact, thousands viable local authority area. It will have a of dollars have been paid out on trifecta bets population in excess of 60,000 at the outset, in some cases. I believe that it will be a and an estimated rateable valuation of around very successful means of betting. I have no $200,000,000. objection at all to allowing bookmakers at the Albion Park trots to bet on Sydney In terms of population, rateable value, greyhounds-! see the Minister for Local and potential, this places the proposed new Government in the Chamber and I know he shire of Logan, from its inception, in a cate­ approves of this move-but if it is good gory similar to that of the State's larger pro­ enough for them I see no reason why this vincial cities such as Rockhampton and Too­ Government cannot allow greyhounds to woomba. With this basis on which to build, race at Capalaba or somewhere else on a we see no reason why the new shire council Saturday so that greyhound followers can bet should not operate efficiently and effectively on their own race meetings. in the better local government interests of the people it will serve in this growing Last but not least, I must say that every region. racing sport should be given the opportunity I table, for perusal by honourable mem­ to stand on its own two feet. This idea of bers, maps illustrating the proposed external preference being given to galloping has to boundaries of the new shire of Logan, and be stopped. I do not think galloping clubs the proposed boundaries of the shires of really want preference. I believe they are big Albert, Beaudesert and Redland. enough and capable enough of standing on their own two feet and if trotting or grey­ Whereupon the honourable gentleman laid hound clubs want to conduct meetings at the on the table the maps referred to. same time within the same area in competi­ I believe that this particular Bill tion with galloping, then it should not be a marks another milestone in the history Government decision, as it is under this leg­ of local government in this State, and gives islation, to stop them from doing so. practical expression to the Government's proclaimed policy of providing greater local Debate, on motion of Mr. Newbery, government autonomy for the people of adjourned. Queensland. In this Chamber only last week we saw LOCAL GOVERNMENT (ADJUSTMENT another expression of the Government's OF BOUNDARIES) BILL policy in this regard with the passage of the Local Government (Aboriginal Lands) Act INITIATION IN COMMITTEE to apply to the former Aboriginal reserve areas of Mornington Island and Aurukun. (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) Some honourable members opposite might Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minister suggest that the creation of an additional for Local Government and Main Roads) (5.4 shire-as in the case of the new shire of p.m.): I move- Logan-is inconsistent with moves over the "That a Bill be introduced to provide years to reduce the number of local author­ for the creation of the Shire of Logan and ities in Queensland. Every situation must 1350 Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill be considered independently on its merits, of year, both the Albert Shire Council and the course. It would be easy to apply a "broad Beaudesert Shire Council carried resolutions brush" approach-either for or against any seeking the exclusion of parts of their areas move to create additional councils or to from their shires, and it was seen that, if reduce the number at any time, but that this were done, a new local authority area would hardly be the approach of a respon­ could be created in the north embracing sible Government. I know from experience sections of the Albert and Beaudesert Shires. and contact with honourable members on Coupled with this request from the two both sides of the Chamber that they see this councils, there have been some expressions Bill, as I do, as a special measure to meet of dissatisfaction by people in the northern special circumstances and to meet substan­ area with the manner in which they have tiated demands from people in the area been dealt with by the councils concerned. extending over a long period. Whether or not there has been merit in their I see no conflict or contradiction between complaints, I must say that, in my view, the this move to create a new local authority and northern areas have not been unfairly treated recent trends, and my own declared views, over the years. However, the creation of a in favour of reducing the number of councils new shire in the north would indeed give overall, where possible. I have made it these people a greater right to run their own clear publicly that I see prospects for some affairs. It would also remove the dissension marginally economic or uneconomic councils arising from an attitude or opinion preva­ in various areas of the State to improve lent in some quarters that the northern areas their viability by amalgamation for the were being controlled by the southern rural benefit of their electors and ratepayers. My interests. Again, it is not my intention to views in that respect haven't changed, and, speculate on the validity or otherwise of as I have said previously, if any councils these suggestions. come to me with proposals for amalgamation, At the same time as the new shire of I will do everything I can to assist the pro­ Logan is created, it is possible to effect two cess. However, the issue is, of course, largely minor changes of boundaries, one between one for local authorities themselves to con­ the Redland Shire and the shire of Albert, sider. and the other between the Beaudesert Shire I haye digressed a little from the essence and the shire of Albert. of this particular Bill, but I felt that that It is proposed in the Bill that three prop­ particular point should be made, to give erties in the Leslie Harrison Dam catchment, some indication of the Government's think­ and incorporating particular environmental ing and to answer, at the outset, a point problems, be transferred to the Redland Shire. which may perhaps be existing in minds of This is a minor change. As well, in the area some honourable members. around Bethania, south of the Logan River, the situation arises that in flood times this The situation which has given rise to this area is cut off from the north and is serviced particular Bill to create the shire of Logan from Beenleigh. Discussions have taken place is, of course, quite well and widely known with people in this area and they favour the and documented. The situation, on the change. The time is therefore opportune to southern boundary of the city of Brisbane provide for this change involving the Albert is that two shires, namely, the Albert and and Beaudesert Shires. Beaudesert Shires, stretch from the boun­ Clauses 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 of the Bill provide daries of Brisbane to the New South Wales for the boundary changes referred to, creation border. It has been obvious for some time of the area of the shire of Logan and the that a new local authority would need to be identification of maps illustrating the bound­ formed in the northern section of these two aries of the shires. The boundary of the shire shires. of Logan is also identified in schedule 1 to The key factor which has influenced the the Bill. Copies of the maps will be available timing of such a move has been the extent in the office of the Surveyor"General and of urban development outward from the Director of Mapping and Surveying, the office city of Brisbane. of the Director of Local Government, and the At the same time, it has also been obvious offices of each council concerned. that the boundaries of the city of Brisbane With the creation of a new shire, the situ­ could not be extended, with justification, to ation arises that present members of the provide for this outward extension of the Albert and Beaudesert Shire Councils could be urban fringe area. If this were done, of disqualified from office because of their place course, the city of Brisbane could extend of residence in the new shire area or a differ­ eventually to the New South Wales border, ent shire area. Therefore, clause 6 ensures and westward to the Great Dividing Range. that no such disqualification occurs. I should think this would not be justified, in While the area of the shire of Logan is most eyes, and would be generally unaccept­ created under the Bill forthwith, it is pro­ able. posed that the new council for the shire be Over the past few years, the develop­ elected at the next triennial elections, namely, ment in the northern areas of the Albert the last Saturday in March 1979. This is pro­ and Beaudesert Shires has been substantial. vided in clause 7 of the Bill. As I have indicated previously, there are In the meantime, and in preparation for now more than 60,000 people living in the this election, action will be taken under the area north of the Logan River. Early this Local Government Act to divide the shire Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill 1351 for electoral purposes. This will involve the of Albert and Beaudesert Shire Councils be giving of 90 days' notice of the proposed either continued in employment of those electoral divisions, and the electors of the councils or obtain employment with the new new area will have the opportunity of lodging shire council. objections to the proposed divisional boundar­ I commend the Bill to the Committee. ies. Discussions are at present taking place with those members of the Albert and Beau­ Mr. PREST (Port Curtis) (5.15 p.m.): desert Shire Councils who presently represent Opposition members can see nothing wrong the area to be embraced in the shire of with the creation of the Logan Shire. Never­ Logan with a view to development of div­ theless, they will have quite a lot to say isional boundaries for the purpose of adver­ about it. I agree with the Minister's state­ tising. ment that the creation of three additional The Bill provides that, when the new coun­ local authorities in a week or so is history cil of the shire of Logan is constituted early in the making. in April 1979, the council will have transi­ In the light of the amendments to the tional powers only until I July 1979. These Local Government Act that we debated transitional powers will include the provision yesterday which took away certain auto­ of an office, the appointment of officers and nomy, one could be pardoned for laughing the organisation of its staff of officers, the preparation of a budget for 1979-80, making at the Government's announced intention of by-laws and other incidental matters. of providing greater local autonomy for the people of Queensland. However, on this The council also will have the power to occasion the people are getting a little extra. raise loans to finance its transitional powers I commend the Minister on that. and to enable it to exercise its full powers as from 1 July 1979. In the meantime, the The population potential of this area councils of the shires of Albert and Beau­ ensures that, in the distant future, the shire desert will continue to exercise the normal will become viable. However, some objec­ local authority functions in the new shire tions have been levelled at the proposal of Logan, on the basis of their existing bud­ by people who are not fully informed about gets and financial arrangements, town plans, the real intentions. Articles in the Gold by-laws, etc. Coast local newspapers indicate that neither the Albert Shire nor the Beaudesert Shire The time-lapse between the passing of this decision on the matter was unanimous. Bill and the election in March next year will enable the division of the shire for electoral Mr. D'Arcy: All the councillors represent­ purposes to be undertaken and will enable ing the northern end of the Albert Shire the Valuer-General to attend to a necessary voted against the proposal. revaluation of the northern end of the shire of Albert. The shire of Beaudesert was reval­ Mr. PREST: I did not know that. I am ued recently, with an effective valuation date quite certain that the honourable member of 31 December 1976. It is essential, for for Woodridge, who is conversant with the equality of rating in the new shire area, that area, will have a great deal of interesting the northern section of the Albert Shire be knowledge to impart to honourable members. revalued as at the same date as the Beau­ desert Shire revaluation. The Bill so pro­ The A.L.P. is concerned about the creation vides. of additional authorities. Because its policy does not favour their creation-and at The remainder of the Bill relates to neces­ present Queensland has 133 local authorities sary administrative adjustments that need to -Labor envisages a complete review of all be made. Particularly, provision is made for local authority boundaries with the idea of the Governor in Council to declare and appor­ amalgamating some of the smaller shires to tion assets and liabilities and to make adjust­ form a viable council to achieve something ments relating to the continuation in force for the people. of the current town planning schemes for the areas involved. It has been necessary to write As I said, the councils' decisions were not these adjusting powers into the Bill as similar unanimous. We have received complaints provisions in the Local Government Act from progress and other organisations in the would not automatically apply in the case of area expressing fear that rates could rise creation of a new local authority, as will apply when the new shire is formed. We do not in this case. know what will happen, but we do know The Bill also makes reference to the con­ that, overall, local authority expenditure tinuation in employment of existing staff of each year is huge. We are considering the the councils of the shires of Albert and creation of a new authority to administer Beaudesert. The councils are to have regard an area which, doubtless, has inadequate to the desirability of continuity in employ­ amenities. We are told that the authority ment of those persons who are employed in will take care of 60,000 people. On that the service of either the council of the shire basis I suppose it will be spending about of Albert or the council of the shire of $30,000,000 a year. The Minister explained Beaudesert at the time of the constitution of that the rateable value of property is about the shire of Logan. The date of such con­ $200,000,000. If the rates are struck at 2 stitution will, of course, be the date of the to 3c in the dollar the authority will get conclusion of the election. It is important between $4,000,000 and $6,000,000 a vear. I that, as far as possible, the existing employees am unaware of property valuations ·in the 1352 Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill

area, but I am sure that they must be ~hat, as we have received such letters, substantial. So we are looking at a pretty the department and the Minister have high rate, if it is 3c in the dollar or more. received them, too. I know that at this stage The Government has to make some pro­ the Minister would not want me to mention vision to balance the budget for amenities­ them all. water, sewerage, garbage collection and other The Government has looked after the essential services that are planned. I am National Party controlled shires since 1957. quite certain that the people in the area It is about time we had a change. The will not get out of it lightly. That has been Opposition is asking for a complete review their fear, and it is also the fear of the of all boundaries. In the past week we Opposition. have seen something occur in the local The Minister said that if the Brisbane authority sphere that should not have occur­ City Council had taken a greater area it red. I sincerely hope that that affair will would only be a matter of time before a Bris­ be cleaned up very shortly. The other day bane city authority took in an area as far as the Minister said that $1,000,000 could have the border. The way the Brisbane City Coun­ been misappropriated in one local authority­ cil operates in comparison with other local ! am sorry to have to remind him of this­ authorities down this way, that might not but the next day the man who gave him that haye been a bad thing. The Brisbane City information repudiated it. Council is the best thing local authority has had for quite some time. I pay a compliment The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. to the members of the Brisbane City Coun­ Gunn): Order! I ask the honourable member cil and to the Lord Mayor for the work done to return to the Bill. by that council, which is controlled by the Australian Labor Party. No doubt it will Mr. PREST: I will not talk about the continue, irrespective of the changes that Gold Coast, either. arc to be made in local government. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: I Mr. Hinze: You are only saying that thank the honourable member very much. because Alderman Warburton said it. Mr. PREST: I have heard good reports Mr. PREST: The next day he denied about the Minister when he was chairman that $1,000,000 was missing. Nevertheless, of his shire. I believe he did a wonderful I will get away from that subject. I must job. Unfortunately some of the changes he abide by your ruling, Mr. Gunn. Last is making to the Local Government Act night you said that I must not talk about are not in keeping with his past record. the Gold Coast. The member for Woodridge knows this The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: I have area quite well and he will add a great deal to my remarks. He will be answering the not changed my mind about the Gold Coast. J\1inister's comments. We are concerned that Mr. PREST: Thank you, Mr. Gunn. It is a full review was not made of all local a bit late in the session but we will prob­ authority boundaries before another local authority was created. However, if this ably have the chance to talk out it later. Bill is of benefit to the people-and it is We believe that changes could have been people that the Opposition cares about-and made in the area containing the shires of gives them better conditions than they have Logan, Albert, Beaudesert, Redland and Gold had under the National Party controlled, or Coast. If they had been, it might no:t have Independent, Beaudesert and Albert Shires, been necessary to create a new local auth­ we will be only too pleased to go along with ority in Queensland. Nevertheless, the Oppos­ it. ition goes along with the proposal. We It has been said that the decision to hope that in .the near future the Minister create this new shire was prompted by the will accede to our request for a review of fear certain members on both councils had local authority boundaries throughout Queens­ that they would lose their positions if changes land. We will study the Bill closely when were made in the complement of the local it is printed. authority areas. They thought that the best thing to do would be to cede these resi­ Mr. GOLEBY (Redlands) (5.26 p.m.): The dential areas and have a new authority creation of the Logan Shire will provide created to take care of them. They would for the people in the northern areas of the then be safe and able to carry on with the Albert and Beaudesert Shires something that work thev had been doing. Over a period they have been waiting for and wanting for of time they regard their positions not as a a long time. The last major redistribution of privilege but as a necessity. Unfortunately, shires was made in 1949 and they have this has not been the case only in the Albert not been altered until now, and this is the and Beaudesert Shires. It has happened in second time this session that changes have local authorities right throughout Queens­ been made. Recently, two new shires were land. People are elected and then they think created in North Queensland and now the thev cannot be done without. We have Logan Shire is being set up. received letters from people in lots of areas saying that they are not happy with the The Logan Shire will be created, as the councils running their affairs and asking what Minister indicated, from areas of the Albert can be done about it. I am quite certain Shire and the Beaudesert Shire. In 1949, Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill 1353 the Albert Shire and the Cleveland Shire justify them. He is rather embarrassed, virtually swallowed up Tingalpa Shire and which is why I have so many people from took it into their respective areas. the area that I used to represent coming to me and saying that they want nothing to do The northern end of Albert Shire is with the honourable member for Woodridge. recognised as the fastest developing residen­ That is the truth. tial area in Australia. Its development has been rather rapid. When the Albert Shire If we study the Redland Shire we find that was increased in size in 1949, the area which much of the area of what is to be the new will become the new Logan Shire was noth­ Logan Shire comes into the catchment area ing but virgin bush with an odd settler's of the Leslie Harrison Dam. I am very hut and a few timber getters operat~ng in pleased that the Minister has seen fit to in­ the area. The only development was along clude three major areas in the Redland the Pacific Highway. Shire. I refer to Venman Park, an adjoining One area that has developed since then area of some 289 acres and an area, also of is Woodridge, which is situated on the Been­ considerable acreage, owned by the Shailer leigh railway line. Because the ra.ilway family. These areas contain very little dev­ offered a cheap passenger service >to the elopment; in fact, there are only three or city in the early 1950s, developers were four voters in them. This is in the main unin­ attracted to the area and it expanded very habited land and its inclusion will make no rapidly. Similar development has occuued at appreciable difference to the population of Park Ridge and nearby areas at the northern the shire. end of the Beaudesert Shire. Those areas It will, however, make an appreciable dif­ have grown rapidly. At a later date Spring­ ference to the dam catchment area because wood was developed by Intercapital Realty. over the years the Redland Shire will be able That area east of the Pacific Highway would to protect it from residential development. be one of the finest residential developments I think that is all to the good. Venman on the outskirts of Brisbane. It has Park and other areas in the catchment area attracted many people ·and has grown very have been resumed and they act as a buffer quickly. area. The association of that area with the As the parliamentary representative of this Slacks Creek forestry area means that there area for three years I can appreciate just are quite a few thousand acres in this region how the people of the region feel about .the that will be left for ever in their natural creation of a new shire. Early in the piece a state. little apprehension was caused by a few I should like to point out the importance stirrers in the community, but in the main of the Leslie Harrison Dam to the Redland the new shire has been wanted by the people Shire. It covers over 700 acres of surface and they have been wahing for it for a long water and at the present time it is providing time. water for a population of 32,000. Provision New development attracts many young has been made for the wall of the dam to families into an area at the one time. This be raised and resumptions were carried out has been the case in the area that will at the initial stage to allow for the ponded become the shire of Logan. It has a popula­ area to reach R.L. 70. This will provide for tion of some 60,000 people and its propor­ a population in excess of 100,000. It is tion of children is among the highest in very important that those in a rapidly dev­ Queensland. The growth of the schools and eloping area should know that they have an the increase in school populations indicate adequate water supply that will be protected the demands on the Education Department for years to come. to provide education within the area. I should like to pay a tribute to the former The new shire will have complete com­ member for Logan, whose memory has been munity of interest. The people have assoc­ perpetuated by the naming of the Leslie iated themselves with local interests and now have no real interest shared with the south­ Harrison Dam. ern end of the Albert Shire. I must say that There are other areas that could have been the Albert Shire has done a particularly good included to ensure that the catchment area job. It has spent most of its revenue .in this of the dam is protected for some consider­ northern area. All sorts of arguments are able time. So far as the Redland Shire Coun­ put forward about the lack of kerbing and cil is concerned, we are appreciative of the channelling, sewerage, water and other amen­ action taken by the Minister to enable us ities, but if one looks at the budget of the to spread our wings, as it were, and to gain Albert Shire Council one realises that more greater control of this catchment area. money has been spent in this area than has been raised there. Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (5.34 p.m.): I Mr. D'Arcy interjected. may not be told a lot around here, Mr. Gunn, but I have just discovered that the Mr. GOLEBY: It was all very well for honourable member for Redlands is a mem­ the honourable member for Woodridge to ber of the National Party. I wondered why make a lot of innuendoes and tell a lot of he was carrying on as he was. Had he been untruths during the election campaign, but a Liberal member, he would not have car­ he is now left with the task of trying to ried on in that way. 1354 Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill

The Bill to set up the new shire of Logan What happened over a period was that the is in essence nothing. It has been orchest­ Minister's mates in Beaudesert and Albert rated by the Minister for Local Government, created a nice cushy little nest-egg for them­ who has raced down to his mates at the selves, including new council chambers, and southern end of the area and organised the they left the northern end bereft of neces­ new shire. In actual fact, the Bill is to pro­ sary services. Now they have said, "Oh, tect Country Party interests in that area. guess what, you are going to get a new That is all it is, and that is borne out by the shire on your own." Then they tried to tell figures from the election campaign. For the us it was in the community's interest and so National Party, the State and Federal elec­ forth. If the Minister was half fair dinkum, tions were absolute tragedies in these areas he would redraw the boundaries. Half the and the National Party realised that some­ boundaries in local government are shaped thing had to be done there. Hence the Bill. like the Minister; that's the problem. I'm sorry to get so personal, but that is the The Minister said that we should not be problem we face. The Minister knows he creating new shires. Of course we should has problems at the Gold Coast end of the not be doing that. The parts of the Beau­ shire. He has told us about the problems of desert and Albert Shires being dealt with rural interests. I wonder what rural interests now are really part of the fiasco that he the people on the canal estates on the Gold personally created. A moment ago the Minis­ Coast have. ter boasted that he was a former chairman of the shire and the honourable member for The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Redlands said that at one time he repre­ Gunn): Order! The honourable member is sented part of the area. He ran away from not allowed to speak about the Gold Coast. it! But the point is that at the present time The Bill covers the shire of Logan. the services provided by the Albert and Beaudesert Shire Councils in these areas are Mr. D'ARCY: But the shire of Logan is among the worst in urban Australia-in fact, to be split with the Albert Shire. they are the worst-largely because when the Minister was chairman of the Albert The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Shire he allowed Government instrumental­ I ask the honourable member to return to ities such as the Housing Commission and the Bill. other developers to race into the northern Mr. D'ARCY: With due respect, I am on end of the shire, put down a few roads the Bill because this is the same area. (often without bitumen sealing) and build substandard houses in many areas. They pro­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! vided no services, nor did they provide This is the shire of Logan. I ask the hon­ drainage on this shale-type land. Today the ourable member to continue. people who live in this area are still waiting for these services because the council has Mr. Casey interjected. not been able to provide them. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. Casey: It is no wonder disease and I ask the honourable member for Mackay ill health are rampant in that area. to cease interjecting. The honourable mem­ ber for Woodridge will return to the Bill or Mr. D'ARCY: That's right. The blame resume his seat. for this must be laid largely at the Minis­ Mr. D'ARCY: As I pointed out, a large ter's feet, because he was the one who part of the Albert Shire is to be excised to created this fiasco of urbanisation outside the form the new shire. The point is that if the Brisbane area. We have to pay tribute to shire boundaries were to be redistributed, Clem Jones and the great Labor council in they should have been redistributed in the Brisbane; they would not tolerate this state proper way. Let me give honourable mem­ of affairs, so these developers ran to the bers an idea of the sort of rort these people easy pickings of the Country Party and the -the Minister and his National Party mates Minister. Now that the Minister's Country -were running down there. I want to tell Party mates are in real trouble down at the honourable members the figures for the last southern end of the shire, he has decided to election in the Albert Shire. I will refer give them a bit of protection. Of course, first to Division 1, which the Minister men­ there was no real representation for the tioned. That has to be in the Bill! For northern end of the shire. example, with 13,098 voters, Division 1 While the Opposition spokesman on local elected two councillors. Division 2, which is government was speaking, I pointed out that, also in the new shire, with 8,347 voters also when the Minister was away orchestrating elected two councillors. Now, when we come the background, five councillors voted down to the Gold Coast end of the Albert against the proposal to split the Albert Shire, Shire, we find that Division 6, with 2,227 to their great credit. They included Coun­ voters, elected two councillors. Then we cillors Davis and Huntress. I should also go to Division 4, where a Mr. Holm was give credit to the Liberal councillors, Rhea, elected. I am sure he is something to do Shailer and Clark. They voted against the with the National Party, perhaps vice-presi­ creation of a new shire because they realised dent. He was elected in that shire with what would happen. They realised that they another councillor, and that division had had been sold a pup. only 1,500 voters. There is another division Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill 1355 at the northern end with 13,000 voters elect­ We saw what happened in the Federal ing two counciiiors. That is why the Minis­ election. The candidate there was the great ter had to change it. He was not prepared white spender of the National Party, Mr. to cop a decent redistribution which the Shapcott, the fighter for Fadden. However, people in the shire want. he didn't get enough votes to get off the We need a reasonable redistribution in ground; he didn't even get close. In Wood­ Queensland. It must be a fair redistribution. ridge, in the area that the honourable The Minister has rorted Queenslanders member for Redlands deserted, the end generally and now he wants to rort the result was that, out of 15,000 voters, the shire. That is exactly what he is doing; National Party ended up with 2,100 votes. he is rorting the people in the shire. They It is pretty obvious why the National Party have the most to lose in that area. They deserted this area. It is a shame that mem­ are the ones who are copping a bad deal bers of the Liberal Party have not supported all the time. The people living in this area their councillors so that they could give have really had a lousy deal in regard to the people of the area a fair go. That is services. The Minister admits that the area what they should be getting and it is obvious is growing rapidly and that the services pro­ from this Bill that they are not going to vided by the local authority have not been get that fair deal. able to keep abreast of demand. Moneys The Bill mentions preferential voting, and that have been allocated for amenities such the Minister is saying that preferential voting as parks and other services have largely is going to be optional under the Local favoured the south. Government Act. What will happen in this In the new Albert Shire the Minister will new shire? The answer is obvious. Although be taking 70 per cent of the population. the Minister has not stated the position What have the councillors done? They have openly, it is obvious that he has decided just built themselves a huge mausoleum at that the shire will have preferential voting Nerang which will be in the old Albert whether it likes it or not. He has not Shire, where the shire has been split. This consulted anybody yet. On any occasion that is the type of thing that is being done to I have asked him for information, he has the ratepayers. replied, "Go to the department; someone there will tell you." His department acts I was pleased to see that councillors in like the Gestapo; it is impossible to obtain the northern end, irrespective of their poli­ any information in connection with the tical colour, voted for a reasonable deal for shire. Obviously the Minister issued instruc­ the people there, which the Minister is tions to his department that it was not to obviously not giving them. I hear that he give information to anvone. His idea is is going to call for a revaluation of the to create the new shire and then tell the northern oart of the Albert Shire. If this public what is going on. happens, valuations will be even worse for some of the people there. We know that As to preferential voting-obviously the the method of valuation has been altered Minister will introduce it. The Local Govern­ recently because of the change in economic ment Association does not like the idea of circumstances. preferential voting. Today I received a letter We are continually told by the National from the association setting out its opposition Party, including the Minister, that the people to preferential voting. involved are going to get a fair deal. There is no way that they are. The National The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Party gives nobody a fair deal. There is Gunn): Order! The Committee is not dealing not the remotest chance of the people in the with preferential voting. Logan Shire getting a fair deal from the National Party. It is a shire that has been Mr. D'ARCY: I think it is part of the created and orchestrated by the Minister to matter under discussion, Mr. Gunn. protect his mates at the southern end of the shire in order to keep them in a job. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member will return to the It is obvious from the election figures that Bill. there was no way that the National Party candidate could have been re-elected. For Mr. Casey interjected. example, the honourable member for Fassi­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! fern was involved in this area, but he had If the honourable member for Mackay inter­ only one opponent, a Labor Party candidate. jects again, I will warn him under Stand­ At Mabel Park he received 370 votes and ing Order 123A. our candidate received 739. No wonder the National Party doesn't want that area. At Mr. CASEY: I rise to a point of order. The Kingston the honourable member for Fassi­ Committee is considering a Bill to provide fern received 357 votes and our candidate for the creation of the new shire and for pur­ received 848. The same thing applied in poses connected therewith. The Local Gov­ Woodridge. ernment Act- An Opposition Member: That is why they are rigging the boundaries. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable member will state his point Mr. D'ARCY: That is right. of order. 1356 Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill

Mr. CASEY: This legislation refers to all Mr. Prest: What amenities are in this aspects of voting, including preferential vot­ area? ing, in the new local authority area. Mr. D'ARCY: They're very poor. In the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Woodridge area there is only one small While I am in the chair, I will decide the community centre. issue. I have previously warned the honour­ able member about interjecting while other I am amazed that the boundaries of the members are speaking. If he persists in inter­ new shire should be organised completely by jecting, I will warn him under Standing Order the Minister. Originally, he received no rep­ 123A. resentations from the area. When he did receive them, they concerned the inclusion Mr. CASEY: On a further point of order, of different areas, particularly the area of Mr. Gunn-- Beenleigh. When I was formerly a member of Parliament, the idea was to build up The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Beenleigh as a centre. It is really the only There is no point of order. town in the northern end of the shire. Mr. CASEY: Mr. Gunn-- I once heard Councillor Laver and the Minister's mate, Muntz, say at a meeting, The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! "Charlie Holm lives up that way. We cannot I now warn the honourable member under disfranchise him. He likes Beenleigh. He Standing Order 123A. The honourable mem­ goes into Beenleigh." Although Beenleigh is ber for Woodridge will continue with his the centre of the police district for the whole speech. area, it will not be in the shire, but will be connected to the Gold Coast. Because we Mr. D'ARCY: It is obvious that, as usual, have disfranchised 65 to 70 per cent of the the Minister will stand over the people in people in the shire, most of the residents of the area, and in this instance demand that they have preferential voting. If the local the new shire of Albert will live on the canal councils and the people in the area were estates of the Gold Coast, not in the rural asked to put forward a recommendation, areas. it would be one against preferential voting. Residents of the new shire of Logan will Like the Local Government Association of get a pretty rough deal from the Minister. Queensland, they would not want preferential He has orchestrated this action for his mates voting. The letter that I received today from in the National Party. They are protecting the association, over the signature of the one another. On the voting trends in divi­ secretary, Mr. Armstrong, clearly indicates sions I and II of the Albert Shire, it was that it is opposed to preferential voting obvious that they could not win. So they in all local authority areas. I do not blame foisted a new ill-shaped and ill-conceived the association for adopting that view. Pref­ shire on the people. erential voting is iniquitous. It is organised, of course, by the National Party to rort the If the Minister were half fair dinkum about system just a little bit more. the boundaries of the shires in Queensland, he would reduce the number of shires and The Minister has said that the new shire set up regional boundaries. If he was sin­ will have a population of about 60,000. cere about community of interest in the new I presume that figure includes men, women shire, he would include Beenleigh in it. But and children. The amenities within the boundaries designated roughly by the Minister he has to protect his seat and those of the could not possibly cope with such a popula­ honourable members for Redlands, Fassifern tion. Generally speaking the area is an under­ and Albert. His chances of doing that are privileged one. Those portions of it that not good. As the population moves south are regarded as better-class are growing rap­ from Brisbane, as it will do inevitably, idly. Services have fallen well behind; but National Party members will be forced out. that is to be expected with the Minister That will mean the end of the National Party having once been chairman of the Albert in South-east Queensland. What a wonderful Shire. day that will be. It is only a matter of time. At the last election the Country Party lost I want to discuss revaluation. Every two seats to the Liberals and, of course, the time a revaluation has been carried out, it two Liberal members did the right thing last has been regarded as a rort. There is no night. doubt that within the new shire boundaries rates will have to rise substantially to meet the The new shire of Logan has one thing in cost of providing amenities. The Albert its favour. The people of the area will have Shire Council has fallen way behind and a voice in their local authority affairs, which, it is obvious that in order to protect the because of rigged boundaries, they did rural interests in the southern portion of not have when they were in the Beaudesert the shire the Minister has disfranchised the and Albert Shires. Perhaps they will get people in the northern portion. He has said some satisfaction from the councillors whom to them, "You will either sink or swim." they elect. However, from what I hear about The people in the northern portion of the the Minister, he has that, too, organised. shire have, over a lengthy period, had a lousy deal from the Albert Shire Council. (Time expired). Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill 1357

Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (5.54 p.m.): It region. In support of the actions of the is fair to say that the majority of honourable Beaudesert and Albert Shire Councils, let members are aware of the incredible con­ me say that they have utilised their financial fusion that usually exists in the mind of the resources to the maximum effect for the honourable member for Woodridge, and his benefit of the people in this region. How­ comments tonight were indicative of that ever, that does not mean that the people confusion. are living in a Garden of Eden, and I ven­ There is no sinister motive for the move ture to say that in another 50 years they now being made. It is being made at the will still be making requests of the relevant request of the people in the northern division council. of the Beaudesert Shire and the northern part As I have observed the situation, it seems of the Albert Shire. We do not have to look that some objections have been raised to for justification for it; it exists. The honour­ council administration. I concede that. That able member for Woodridge is leaving the brings me to the purpose of this entire exer­ Chamber. He is not prepared to listen to cise. In the proposed shire there will be in my comments on his recent uncouth remarks. excess of 60,000 people-men, women and The Minister told us in his introductory children. They are making demands. The speech that about 60,000 people reside within fact of the matter is that, by putting a the region. Having been active in the area ring round them, we bring together a group for the past few years-and for longer than of people with a common interest. Follow­ the honourable member for Woodridge, who ing the passing of this legislation, they will was completely and totally rejected by the be masters of their own destiny. They will electors of the region-I can only say that make their own determinations in future. If he has a damn cheek suggesting how people mistakes are made, they will not then be in the region will vote in the future. able to go back to the Beaudesert Shire or the Albert Shire and hold them responsible. His re-election was a mistake and a dis­ I know that there is a tremendous amount of aster. Since his re-election all he has done work to be done; but if these people are dis­ in the area is attempt to confuse the people satisfied with the way things are being and tell them about his diabolical projections organised at the moment, what is more of measures that would be introduced to democratic than to place them in their own destroy them. As a person who has been local authority area so that they may appoint more or less resident in the area for the last their own officers to administer their affairs? six months, I assure them that, no matter which side of the boundary they may be on, Let us consider their finances. I repeat whether in Beaudesert Shire or the new shire that we are looking at a population in excess of Logan, for the next three years I will of 60,000. The area has a total unimproved represent them. What they do after that is value of about $200,000,000. If that does not their own business. I would not have the allow them to operate a viable organisation, audacity to suggest how they may vote in I suggest that many other local authorities the future. That will be a determination throughout the State will be facing major made by the people, not by the honourable difficulties in the future. member for Woodridge, and the sooner he [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] gets that message through his thick skull­ if anything can get inside it-the better it Mr. MULLER: My remarks prior to the will be for the people of the region. dinner recess would have indicated the exist­ ence of a number of problems that will have For quite a long period the people have to be solved before the Logan Shire gets off complained that there has not been sufficient the launching pad. It is quite clear to me that development in their locality. I remind the much speculation has resulted from opinions Committee that a few years ago-approxi­ based on distorted information rather than mately 10 years ago--this area was in fact on fact. Difficulties do exist and there are a woody ridge; so it is aptly named Wood­ administrative problems but, as this is a good ridge. The area now has a population of Bill, they will be capably handled by admin­ more than 20,000 and is fairly well provided istrative officers within the Department of with amenities. Let me make a comparison. Local Government. Over 80 per cent of Woodridge is now sewered. It took Clem Jones and former There is one specific problem that I do not Labor councils 100 years to do that in the think has been handled adequately. In order city of Brisbane. ,to explain it, perhaps I should inform the members of the Committee who do not already Everyone must be conscious of the fact know it that the shire of Beaudesert has that the local authorities responsible for the recently been revalued. The new values are development of the area had to undertake a due to be applied as from 30 June 1978. What mammoth task. The people in that area has happened in this instance is that the require many facilities; they will always ask excised area, which is a developing area, for further improvements. I would venture has been valued much more highly than the to say that if anyone asked a member of remaining rural portion of the Beaudesert Parliament, "What do you want?", he would Shire. So much for that side of the story give them a list a mile long. That is what for the moment. A large portion of the new has happened in the locality about which we shire, which has been excised from the Albert are speaking. The people there do have prob­ Shire was revalued in 1973. When the coun­ lems, as do the people in every developing cils a~e obligated to apply the valuations, with 1358 Local Government (Adjustment [31 MAY 1978] of Boundaries) Bill

one shire valued in 1973 and another in 1976, Those are the basic problems that I but to commence in 1976 and to apply as see at the moment. I hope that the Min­ from the commencement of the 1978 financial ister in his wisdom will give every considera­ vear, there will naturally be a tremendous tion to these difficulties. Overall, I believe variation in values. this to be an excellent Bill, and the sooner it becomes Jaw and the people become settled I got in touch with the Valuer-General's in their new region, the better off they will Department and I have been reliably informed that he is revaluing at this time the excised be. portion of the Albert Shire. Of course, those Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minister valuations will not be available for release for Local Government and Main Roads) during the next couple of months. The Act (7.22 p.m.), in reply: I thank honourable demands that when they are released there members for their contributions on the wiJJ be a period allowing for objections. This introduction of the Bill. As is commonly would mean that the new values in the known, it makes history to the extent that excised portion of Albert Shire would not be this is one of the first new local authorities to available to apply as from the commencement be set up for a very long time, and we expect of the coming financial year. This is causing that there will be great things in store for a dilemma in the minds of the councils, par­ it. Anyone looking at the geography of the ticularly the Beaudesert Shire Council. area and at the tremendous development In addition, as the Minister has indicated, that has taken place there would naturally the excised area of Beaudesert Shire south have that expectation. I have had a personal of the Logan River is going back into the association with the area for approximately Albert Shire. Consequently, there is a three­ 25 years. way movement. All valuations were taken Mr. D'Arcy: We know what you did. at different times. This is causing a tremen­ dous problem in the local authority areas con­ Mr. HINZE: I had to sit here in subdued cerned in striking a rate which is fair and silence and listen to the muck-caJl it a just to the excised portions which will become speech, if you will-that the honourable· the new Logan Shire. member for Woodridge presented. He spoke In the light of these circumstances, I hope about rackets and rorts. That is the sort that the Minister will give every consideration of thing that he referred to. He did the same to permitting the implementation of the valu­ thing the other day in reference to the ations to be deferred until such time as the T.A.B. and when the Treasurer asked him whole new region has been firmly established to present some evidence to support what and the new council has been appointed and he was saying he ducked for cover. He is functioning. I think that is a reasonable has no guts at all. He went pasty-white request in the light of the circumstances. like the "frock" he is wearing and ducked! Failing that, there will be tremendous admin­ for cover. He could not get out of the istra live disabilities. House quickly enough. I would have expected that he, as the If my recommendation is not accepted, member for the new electorate of ·wood­ it will be found that the portions that have ridge, would have come into the House with been excised, which form the area to which some gratitude because it is not long ago the honourable member for Woodridge refer­ that the people in that area were very vocal' red, will be tremendously disadvantaged by in their call for better representation. new valuations. In my opinion, this would be neither desirable nor in their best inter­ Mr. D'Arcy: That's right, and you stm ests. As I said earlier, I have to live with haven't given it to them. these people, and at a number of meetings that I have attended I have given them an Mr. HINZE: We are now saying to them. assurance that I will do everything humanly "You can have your own local authority." possible to see that they are given reason­ It is big enough, of course, to call it a able consideration when the new shire city if that is what they want. But all that becomes a reality. we have had from the honourable member for Woodridge has been criticism. He has In addition, when two excised portions of not put forward anything tangible. He has a shire come together the existing pattern had nothing positive to state. There has could be altered and there could, as a result, been nothing from him but line after line be a request from the new shire officers, of destructive criticism. members or councillors, when they are He has, I believe, a long way to go in appointed or elected, for a new town plan. politics. He should learn to judge all things Previously these portions were on the extrem­ on their merits. Why does he not take ities of both local authorities, and now they a leaf out of the book of his friend the are to come together and will in fact become honourable member for Port Curtis, who one area. In those circumstances, I think always makes a sensible contribution and is­ it only reasonable that every consideration prepared to give serious consideration to should be given to the acceptance of a new Bills that come before the Chamber? I plan. From my hurried perusal of a copy suggest to the honourable member for Port of the Minister's notes as he introduced the Curtis that he take the honourable member Bill, I assume that consideration will also for Woodridge outside and teach him some­ be given to that factor. thing about local government. Local Government, &c., Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill 1359

If the honourable member had served Motion (Mr. Hinze) agreed to. one term in local government, he would Resolution reported. have at least been able to make a decent contribution to this debate. But, of course, all he has done is push into politics on an FIRST READING A.L.P. ticket, get beaten-knocked clean out Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. of the ring-and then push back in here Hinze, read a first time. again. It would have been much better if ·he had at least a little time in local govern­ ment because then he would have known POLICE ACT AMENDMENT BILL something of what he was talking about. SECOND READING Mr. D'Arcy: If I had spent a little time in local authorities, would I, too, have found Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ out how to rort the system? Minister for Primary Industries) for Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for Mr. HINZE: The honourable member Mines, Energy and Police) (7.30 p.m.): I speaks about rorting the system, but Coun­ move- cillors Huntress, Shailer, Davis and Rhea "That the Bill be now read a second have all spoken to me and none of them time." have criticised what we propose to do. As indicated during the introductory debate, the principal aim of the Bill is to improve Mr. D'Arcy: We know how they voted. the overall efficiency and functioning of the Police Force throughout Queensland. Mr. HINZE: The honourable member says he knows how they vote~, but at the The provision of two further assistant time when the vote was taken m the Albert commissioners should ensure an improve­ Shire Council they may have had very good ment in overall supervision through division reason to vote the way they did. I would of the work-load now being carried by the have expected some criticism from the present administration. people living in the area if what the honour­ The rank and file have benefited through able member says was true, but, having had the amendment which provides for the the boundaries of the area explained, .and vicarious liability of the Crown. This should having seen the valuations and the thmgs ensure that they can approach difficult arrest associated with them, they have accepted situations with a more confident attitude. the proposal. I say in all sincerity to the honourable member: why doesn't he, as the The extension of section 59 to cover the member for the area, at least give it a go, obstruction of police in the execution of instead of coming into the Chamber and their duty will also facilitate their sometimes talking about rorts and rackets? Why difficult task. should I, having been closely associated with the development of the area for 25 years, The sections relating to alcoholism and resignation are also to the advantage of now do something that is going to be detri­ members. mental to it? The power to take fingerprints of offenders I want to thank my deputy director, Neil against the Act has been long sought after Macpherson, for the work he has done in by police to permit identification of persons getting this council off the ground. He is who have a habit of assaulting police. another person with a tremendous amount of practical local authority experience. I The honourable member for Nudgee also thank Norm Gampe, the Albert Shire raised several issues which I propose to make Clerk, and the Beaudesert Shire Clerk. Their comment upon. knowledge, with that of the representatives of the people, is enormous and with their Demonstrations: help we are going to try to make this a The actions of the police in acting lawfully model local authority. It has every advan­ to contain demonstrators has not resulted in •tage, with roads, highways, kerbing and any lack of co-operation from the public. channelling, sewerage and water supply Letters are regularly received by the Com­ already established. It also has a railway missioner of Police congratulating police and line, which will be an advantage when the Government for the manner in which the line to Beenleigh is electrified. It has so unlawful processions are handled, that is, many things going for it that it could be tactfully but firmly. one of the most prosperous small local auth­ orities in Queensland. I do not go along Mr. R. J. Gibbs: Why don't you table with the suggestions that there will be an them? immediate rate increase. I believe that the Mr. SULLIVAN: Photographs are a people making these suggestions are just record of but one incident in a train of trying to frighten the ratepayers. I will incidents and are not a real indication of take some convincing that there is a need what has occurred during such disturbances. for a rate increase. I do not wish to say any more at this stage, except to commend Mr. R. J. Gibbs: I have said why don't the Bill to the Committee. you table them? 1360 Police Act Amendment Bill (31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill

Mr. SULLIVAN: A police officer is more advantageous than being kept in the entitled to use reasonable force in effecting dark and hoping that what is feared will not an arrest. Any person aggrieved by the eventuate. conduct of any individual police officer is I would inform the honourable member entitled in law to seek his redress. for Archerfield that promotion in the Police Mr. R. J. Gibbs: Why don't you table Force is not based on seniority. Seniority those letters that were received? prevails only when all else is equal. There is an appeal system whereby any person Mr. SULLIVAN: I suggest to the honour­ aggrieved by a promotion can appeal against able member for Wolston that he keep quiet. the appointee. Endeavours are being made He is a very young fellow and very to improve the standard of both non-commis­ inexperienced. He should just sit there, sioned officers and commissioned officers listen and learn to be a good politician so through in-service courses at Chelmer with a that he can represent his constituents. He content of law, supervision and administra­ would certainly earn their respect if he did tion. listen and learn something. Fraud Squad: Mr. R. J. Gibbs: I certainly couldn't learn anything from you. The performance and staff requirements of the Fraud Squad are presently being Mr. SULLIVAN: That doesn't surprise reviewed by the Commissioner of Police and me because the honourable member does a panel of senior officers. look very thick between the ears. It is anticipated that they will be presented Such allegations are generally thoroughly with better office space, a P.A.B.X. system canvassed in the courts during the hearing and on-the-job training. Detective Senior of any charges. Sergeant J. M. Donoghue, an experienced Policewomen: investigator with many years' experience investigating fraud, has been transferred to There is no heresy hunt in respect of the squad as officer in charge. It is hoped policewomen. Most certainly there are to acquire the services of an auditor to work various duties that cannot be performed in conjunction with investigators. adequately by policewomen. (It would not be prudent to send policewomen to vicious The members are being encouraged to brawls etc.; it would be likewise ridiculous undertake studies in bookkeeping and to put them in charge of isolated stations accountancy. Suitable courses are being such as Kynuna.) examined. They have a role in the non-violent situa­ There is close liaison between Fraud Squad tions but as they are given equal pay male detectives and Corporate Affairs investiga­ police can justly claim discrimination if tors with mutual benefit and added expertise women are to be given all the congenial tasks to both. while the men do the more unpleasant tasks. The department is well aware of the A percentage of women will be recruited increase in white-collar crime. Incidentally, in the intakes soon to enter the academy. arson with the subsequent claim on insurance is the most prevalent white-collar crime in There is no harassment of policewomen America, and the trend could extend to and the obtaining of academic qualifications this State. is not discouraged. Six police officers are presently studying law at the Q.I.T. Several Cadets: are at the university. Police cadets are required to wear uniform The Commissioner recently obtained an and to comply with rules as to haircuts. As Arts degree and extends every encourage­ the honourable member has stated, it is a ment and assistance possible to have police paramilitary body and discipline is essential. extend their studies. Guns: Policewoman Truefitt: All police are issued with guns for the Miss Truefitt's allegations in the news­ defence of the public and themselves. They papers are not an accurate record of what are trained in their use, have regular prac­ happened. She voluntarily resigned from tices and are instructed in their use and the the ·police after being charged with the applicable legislation. It would be expecting possession of drugs. It is significant that too much of police to have them without the magistrate accepted the prosecution's ver­ arms in this age of violence. sion and convicted Miss Truefitt. Courtesy: Terrorism: There are instances of the individual police There are divergences of opinion as to officer lacking courtesy. Likewise, although how terrorism should be best combated. One it does not justify police discourtesy, the view is to take positive steps to alert the pub­ public is not always the epitome of courtesy lic and all persons who might be involved so to the police. The commissioner and the that all possible steps might be taken to pre­ deputy and other senior officers are cognisant vent or best overcome such outrages. It of this and are doing what they can to appears that being informed in advance is improve police I public relations in this field. Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill 1361

I might add that personally I have found The provision of a female clerk at Laidley police officers to be most courteous. How­ has been considered. However, it will be ever, as in any other group of people, the appreciated that such persons cannot perform human element is such that there is the odd police functions and the clerical requirements individual who lacks the courtesy that the are not sufficiently heavy to warrant such an general public expect. appointment. Special Branch: Finance permitting, attention will be given to the improvement of all Government build­ The Special Branch performs within its ings. charter. It most certainly serves a useful purpose and with the advent of terrorism, The staff position at Goodna will be con­ hijacking and dissident political groups in the sidered in the overall review of staff allocation. country, its continued operation will be more In reply to the honourable member for Port than necessary. The members are specially Curt is: selected and carry out their duties in an We agree that there is room for police­ assiduous and lawful manner. women in the force. There is a high percent­ Mr. Casey: The Special Branch did a good age presently in the force and more will be job last night, didn't it? taken into the academy in the near future. A further 49 vehicles have been allocated to Mr. SULLIVAN: Yes. the police and the department is now well In response to the remarks of the honour­ provided for in this regard. able member for Cooroora, radar traps and traffic control are essential facets of police In response to the honourable member for duty. The primary intention is to contain Surfers Paradise: or reduce the road toll. Although some The staff situation will be given all pos­ duties might be taken from police and done sible attention when additional manpower is by other organisations without loss of effici­ being allocated. ency, a detailed study would be required A P.A.B.X. system is under consideration before any duties could be handed over to and if possible additional vehicles will be other departments. allocated. Everything possible is being done to update It is not intended to introduce foot patrols and improve the training of all ranks of in the near future. police. In reply to the honourable member for Rock­ Driver Education: hampton North: Discussions have already been held among The situation complained of at Livingstone three departments with a view to the forma­ has now been rectified. tion of a driver-training school at Capalaba. Districts and regions are constantly under The intention is to conduct training for all review with a view to allocation of manpower. classes of drivers and trainees to improve the standard of driving throughout the State. In response to the honourable member for Members of the Traffic Branch regularly visit Toowoomba North: schools and instruct pupils on traffic and road His remarks regarding the technical section safety generally. are appreciated. The inception will provide Additional police at Coolum: suitably trained technicians with the emphasis on the skills required rather than on par­ The question of the opening of stations and ticular police duties. the allocation of manpower is constantly being considered by the department through the There is merit in the origination of a services of the Planning and Research Section. Forensic Unit. The Police Department has Naturally such allocations depend on finance always worked in close liaison and harmony and the availability of manpower. Allocations with G.M.O.'s and the Health Department. A must necessarily be made where most urgently panel is presently examining the possibility of required. closer liaison with a view to the formation of such a unit as envisaged. I would advise the honourable member for Brisbane Central that police are not the final Police, Alcoholics: arbitrators in the situations where drivers The police administration is sympathetic. are required to show cause. As he is aware, Where possible, all assistance is given to the the final decision presently rests with a mag­ member with a view to his rehabilitation. The istrate on appeal and it is difficult to envisage department has been given assistance by a how the system could be improved upon. member who is a member of Alcoholics Anony­ On the inadequacy of trail bikes presently mous and mutual co-operation exists. A per­ being used by traffic police to apprehend iod has been included in the commissioned such offenders I would inform him that an officer course designed to identify such indi­ application has been made for the supply of viduals and provide assistance in the early suitable trail bikes with an increased capacity stages. -in fact 350 c.c. Hondas-and it is expected The honourable member for Rockhampton that the problem will be alleviated. has made comment on the recommendations In reply to the honourable member for Som­ of the Committee of Inquiry into Criminal erset: Law Enforcement in Queensland. 1362 Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill

Prisons taking over police watch-houses: the operational efficiency of the Police Force, The police would have no real objection. we consider that a more detailed explanation Their work-load would be reduced. There could have been given to explain the reasons are certain practical and procedural difficul­ behind many of the amendments. The Bill ties that would have to be overcome and contains 36 amendments, and the Opposition any procedure would still necessitate police considers that such explanations are necessary presence during the initial charging process. if there is to be a better understanding Industrial problems could also present some of the Bill, particularly by those persons read­ difficulties. Prison officers have the right ing "Hansard". to strike, whereas police do not, and police I will start at the beginning of the Bill and foresee difficulties in this area. deal with the amendments in sequence. As A consolidation of the Acts enforced by we understand it, the inclusion of a technical police vvould be a mammoth task. Police and scientific branch is in accordance with duties and responsibilities are clearly set out a recent decision of the State Industrial in the various statutes. The Vagrants, Gam­ Commission. The new ranks of technical ing and Other Offences Act is at present officers and scientific officers will cover mem­ being reviewed with a view to modernising it. bers of the Police Force who have been Firearms Act: given basic police training but who are required to work in communications, police The Firearms Act is still being reviewed. photographic work, fingerprinting and main­ Machinery sections will be the subject of tenance of police equipment and vehicles. amendment in the near future. An amend­ ment of the Act is not necessarily going to These police, besides having the basic reduce offences committed through the use skills, have higher skills associated with the of firearms. sections in which they have been placed. Public forums: As I understand it, these officers will be Mr. Lewis is conscious of the necessity to given an opportunity for promotion within improve the police image and welcomes police their sections. The proposed amendment taking part in public forums such as the one will prevent the need for them to move out­ attended by Deputy Commissioner Mac­ side their specialist fields to obtain pro­ Donald. Public participation of this nature motion. does much to dispel any misunderstandings The increase from three to five in the that may exist between police and the par­ number of assistant commissioners is one of ticular segment of the public concerned. the most significant proposals in the Bill. Police interrogation: The rank of assistant commissioner was In interrogation of suspects, the police are originally created in 1970. It was said at bound to abide by the Judges' Rules to that time that it was done to reduce the ensure that accused are treated with fairness work-load of the commissioner and to allow and propriety. The courts have a discretion delegation of responsibility or authority. to reject evidence if the judges in their dis­ At that time the rank of deputy commis­ cretion consider that any confession is sioner was abolished and, according to inadmissible. "Hansard", one of the three assistant com­ In response to the honourable member for missioners was to act as Commissioner of Redlands: Police during the commissioner's absence. In 1977, the position of deputy commissioner Staff and accommodation: was restored on the grounds of a doubling Planning and Research are undertaking a of reported crime from 1970 to 1976, an review to better allocate manpower on a increase in police strength, and an increase population basis. in the work-load of the assistant commis­ Endeavours are constantly being made, sioners. Other reasons given at the time finance permitting, to improve or build new were the need for increased supervision of stations. Precedence is being given to the the Police Force at senior level to ensure more dilapidated stations. high morale, increased efficiency and the No decision has been made as to whether it elimination of malpractice and corruption. will be possible to appoint a police officer to I could not agree more. The present lack Point Lookout. of supervision in the Police Force is result­ The remarks made by the honourable ing in many policemen and the Police member commending the commissioner and Department being in ill repute with the the Police Force generally are appreciated. public. Increased supervision is most The Queensland Police Force is the equal of necessary. any Police Force in the Commonwealth, and While provision is made for five assistant under the present commissioner's leadership commissioners, it is intended that only one it will continue to be a credit to this State. additional assistant commis.sioner is to be I am proud to be associated with this appointed in the near future. I understand Bill, on behalf of my colleague the Honour­ the reference to five assistants is included able R. E. Carum, who is incapacitated. to allow an increase at a later date without the need for a further amendment to the Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (7.48 p.m.): Act. I hope that the additional assistant The Opposition has perused the contents of commissioner will not be appointed until his the Bill. However, although the Minister appointment is warranted. We do not want stated that the amendments cover mainly the Police Department to become top-heavy Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill 1363

with too many chiefs and not enough activities, they should not all be stationed Indians, particularly in view of the increase in Brisbane, particularly as there has been in crime in particular areas. I realise that an increase in their number from three to in some areas there has been no increase in five and the position of deputy commis­ the incidence of crime over the past 12 sioner has been restored. months. I agree that there is an urgent On referring to the reasons advanced in need for closer supervision, particularly in 1977 when the rank of deputy commissioner some remote areas of the State. was restored, it is noted that in the year The image and morale of our Police 1976-77 there was an increase of 162 in the Force should be maintained at the highest total membership of the Police Force and level at all times because, as I said at the that the number of reported offences for that introductory stage, the Police Department year totalled 85,203, which was less than needs the co-operation of the general public. the number reported in the year 1975-76. In order to keep the incidence of crime as That was the year in which it was said that low as possible and to solve crimes, the because of the doubling of the number of police definitely need the co-operation of reported crimes and the increase in work­ the public. load and the number in the Police Force, I know that malpractice and corruption there was a need for the appointment of exist within the Police Force. They have additional assistant commissioners and the to be stamped out, and increased supervision restoration of the position of deputy com­ will achieve that aim. missioner. I concur with the appointment of addi­ I therefore must repeat that I hope the tional assistant commissioners provided they appointment of additional assistant commis­ are not mere seat warmers and pen-pushers. sioners will result in improved efficiency and Mr. Newbery: I can assure you they are improved relations between the Police not. Department and the general public. I have already elaborated on my reasons for making Mr. VAUGHAN: That is reassuring and that point. I hope that the Minister acting for the I pass now to the decision to dispense Minister for Police will agree with that state­ with the rank of commissioner's inspector. I ment. only hope that in a year or two we do not The Minister said in his remarks that the have to go through a similar exercise to the administration structure of the force will be one that we are now going through in rela­ operated on a functional basis rather than on tion to the position of deputy commissioner. a geographical basis. I do not think the I do not want to hear the Minister having Minister elaborated on that point or the to say, "We now need to restore the office ~hanges that are envisaged. I shall be of commissioner's inspector", just as on this I~terested . to hear where assistant commis­ occasion we are restoring the position of siOners will be stationed within the police deputy commissioner. structure. As . I understand it, at present When one looks at the amendments to they. are ~~~. m Brisbane. Perhaps the the Act that have been brought down over previous Mm1st~r . fo~ Police could explain the years, one sees indications that it has for me .where It Is mtended to station the been the practice to leap-frog positions by new. ass1s~ant commissioners. Will they all dropping one, creating a couple more and at be m B~Isbane? I see from the report of some subsequent date restoring the original t?e previOus proceedings that that very ques­ position. tiO!'l was asked and the answer was given The Bill provides that persons who were qmckly that. they W<;JUld be stationed in Bris­ previously members of the Police Force and bane. Particularly m view of incidents that who wish to rejoin will be required to serve have ta~en place in North Queensland in a probationary period of one year. This rec.ent limes, I believe there is a need for puts them in the same position as new a~sistant. commissioners to be stationed out­ side Bnsbane. recruits. I think the Minister could explain the reason for this amendment because it Mr. Casey: You do not want any more could act as a deterrent to former police­ Cedar Bays? men who wish to rejoin the Police Force. Under the provision that is now to be Mr. VAUGHAN: I certainly do not; nor amended, a former member on rejoining the do I want any more Herberton raids similar force was not regarded as a probationer. to the one in which policemen in three Perhaps this provision is tied in with a later police cars raided an unfortunate farmer. provision dealing with members of the Police I want to s~e . that sort of thing stamped Force who may be boarded out because of out. because It IS bad for the image of the alcoholism. Pohce Force. I shall be interested in the outcome of the investigation into that Another amendment increases the maxi­ incident, which the Minister indicated the mum age of recruits from 30 to 40 years. other day would be forthcoming in the not­ I note that in 1970 a provision was inserted too-distant future. in the Act which allowed the commissioner in special cases, and with the approval of I believe that if additional assistant com­ the Minister, to appoint persons over the missioners are needed to provide greater age of 30 years but under 45 as constables. efficiency and better supervision of police The Minister specially mentioned that the 1364 Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill

proposed provision would provide for the demonstrations or participants in industrial recruitment of ex-servicemen who had pre­ disputes." viously been precluded from employment in Once again I have reservations about the the Police Force by reason of age. I appre­ employment of ex-servicemen because they ciate that ex-servicemen, who are discip­ were in fact troops. I hope that due regard lined and have had specific training, could is given to the type of training they have make good recruits, but I have reservations already received when they are being induc­ about the motives behind the recruitment of ted into the Police Department. I certainly ex-servicemen to the Police Force. I am hope their recruitment is not for this pur­ wondering whether the ex-servicemen are to pose. I would point out that my concern be recruited into the Public Order Squad has been stimulated by that reference in "The which, according to the 1977 annual report, Courier-Mail" to the Police Emergency is- Squad. As I said during the introductory " ... a body of trained personnel which debate, I became concerned at the publicity is available for use in combating street given to terrorism and to the glamorising disorders, illegal demonstrations, and other in the media of such activities of our Police riotous activities in the streets." Department. The report also indicates that there are about 100 men and women trained in the As I understand the amendment to the use of specialised equipment, arrest tactics provisions covering notice of resignation, the and in police statutory powers to deal with reduction in the period of notice from three street offences. Once again the emphasis months to one month is supported by the is on street offences, and this concerns me. Queensland Police Union, and therefore I I really cannot reconcile why there is such assume that it brings the Act into line with an emphasis on street offences. Has that the provisions of the Award covering police become the prime issue with the Govern­ employment. So far as I can see, it is ment? I believe it could have. As I said, certainly not an amendment which would I cannot help being a little concerned about be disadvantageous to members of the Police the Police Force, particularly when I see the Force. way its members are used during street I now want to refer to the new provision marches. As I am dealing with the Public covering penalties for members of the Police Order Squad, I should mention that my Force who unlawfully supply confidential attention was drawn to a full-page article documents. As I understand it, the incidence in "The Courier-Mail" on Saturday, 20 May, of such offences is not great, and the penalty about our own SWAT squad, the Police of $500 for such an offence may be a con­ Emergency Squad. We all watch television, siderable deterrent. Of course, there are and I would hate to think that our Police other provisions in the Act under which Department was being glamorised to the a police officer involving himself in such act­ same extent as police units that we see on ivities could be dealt with. I understand that American television shows. When the Min­ rule 48 on page 64 relates to confidential ister referred to the employment of ex-ser­ documents and rule 56 (5) on page 65 covers vicemen, I immediately thought of the type the release of informaton to newspapers. of training that is given to servicemen. Let I deal now with the amendment which rec­ us face the facts; servicemen are trained to ognises alcoholism as an ailment and which kill. allows members of the force so afflicted to In view of that announcement by the Min­ be boarded out. I am aware that in certain ister in conjunction with the article about our sections of the Police Force the incidence Police Emergency Squad, I cannot help hav­ of alcoholism is greater than in other sec­ ing reservations about the employment of tions. I believe that there is an urgent need ex-servicemen. I agree that there would for an investigation to be conducted into the be many areas within the Police Force in causes of alcoholism within the Police Force. which ex-servicemen would be able to play While the amendment is a humane way of a very important role, but I would like to dealing with the problem, it is certainly not think-and I believe this would probably be the answer. The fears of recriminations may the case-that considerable thought will be be removed, but we have to find out why given to the areas of police work in which policemen are so susceptible to alcoholism ex-servicemen will be employed. and why there is need for the reference to it. It was interesting to note in the annual report that public order in the streets during It is all very well to have a provision cov­ the year had been generally good through­ ering employment of individuals which out the State. Once again, I hark back to allows them to be boarded out on this par­ the reference to street issues. As the annual ticular ground, but I think we should look report, which is signed by the commissioner, at the reason why such a provision is neces­ acknowledges that public behaviour in the sary. Is it the hours they work? Is it the streets during the year was generally good the loneliness associated with the work? Is it throughout the State, I cannot help wonder­ the shift work? Is it the stress and strain of ing about the emphasis on the street issue. the work? Is it confrontation with the pub­ I again refer to the remarks of Sir Robert lic which we have seen in recent ,times? Mark, who said- I am advised that many policemen avoid "Troops should never in any circum­ going into the C.I. Branch because of the stances be used to confront political dangers of becoming addicted to alcohol, Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill 1365 which seems to be a hazard associated with Force. If I want to refer a complaint to that type of work and the activities involved. somebody who I believe will genuinely investi­ Many members of the Police Force might gate the complaint in an attempt to bring like that particular work, but as I understand about justice, to whom do I refer it? Do I it there is a real hazard of officers perform­ refer the complaint to the Minister? That ing it becoming alcoholics and many members is what I do in any event, but when people of the Police Force particularly avoid going complain to the Minister or to the Commis­ into that section. sioner of Police, where does the complaint I am aware that many members of the go from there? It is investigated within the Police Force have already undertaken volun­ Police Department itself. Because of the tary treatment to overcome the problems increase in the number of complaints against associated with alcoholism and have been the actions or activities of members of the successfully treated. I believe that the pro­ Police Force, I believe that an independent posed amendment should be regarded as an body should be set up to investigate corn­ interim measure only. I do not want to see plaints. a situation whereby members of the Police As I say, I have received numerous corn­ Force are boarded out. I appreciate that plaints. In fact at the present time I there is a provision in the Act which allows have some in my office. A particular corn­ them to be given regular medical checks to plaint in which I am interested concerns a ascertain whether or not they are fit to case at Herberton. As I understand it, return to the Police Force at some time in it has been referred to the commissioner and the future. While that is a very good meas­ is being investigated. I am particularly inter­ ure, I believe that there should be regular ested in the outcome of that investigation. investigations to find out why this happens As to the provision in relation to the and stamp out the particular problem as far liability of the Crown in respect of torts as is practicable. The goal should be rehab­ committed by police officers, a set of pro­ ilitation to get the person concerned back cedures should be laid down to allow an into the work-force. independent investigation to be carried out I shall deal with the amendment that pro­ into individual complaints. This would bene­ vides for persons committing a breach of the fit not only the complainant but also the police officer concerned. Too many corn­ Act to be photographed and fingerprinted. plaints levelled against police appear to be I would like to know how a person who is whitewashed. In recent times we have seen found not guilty or is not proceeded numerous cases in which, although in the against can be certain that finger­ eyes of the public the conduct of police in prints, photographs and other means of a certain incident has been questionable, identifications are destroyed. There is no defi­ there has not been anv clear indication of nite guarantee that they will be destroyed. I a finding against the - police officers con­ realise that there is a provision in the Act cerned or of action taken against them. which says that they will be destroyed, but No-one should be under any delusions as to how can a person be sure that that will hap­ the extent to which the Crown will go in pen? We know that files are kept. There has such matters. The Minister should explain been reference tonight to Special Branch the extent to which the Crown will go. files. We know that the Special Branch He should explain clearly and precisely the keeps files, including files on honourable circumstances under which that provision members. will apply. How can a person who is arrested for a A certain clause in the Act will insert a breach of the Police Act, if he is found new section reading- not guilty, be certain that the photographs "Any person who, having reasonable taken of him will be destroyed? He may be notice that he is required to assist a given back the negative, but how can he be member of the Police Force in arresting certain that the photograph and his finger­ any person for an offence against any prints have been destroyed? There is no section specified in section 64 (1), with­ guarantee in this provision. There is no indi­ out reasonable excuse omits to do so shall cation of how that procedure will be carried be guilty of an offence against this Act." out. I think the Minister should outline those The penalty is $200. facts. It is only reasonable to expect that any I turn now to the new provision that person who may have been ruffled, jostled makes the Crown liable in respect of a tort or belted by an indiscreet police officer committed by a member of the Police Force would be reluctant to come forward and in the performance of his duties. While this assist a police officer in the performance of is a step in the right direction from the his duty. It is a well-established fact that point of view of the members of the Police many persons have little regard for the Force, from the general public's point of view Police Force and for particular police officers. I think procedures should be laid down enab­ I am sure, for example, that, if a person ling persons who consider they are aggrieved involved in the Cedar Bay affair saw a by actions of members of the Police Force to police officer in need of assistance, he would have their complaints investigated by an inde­ be unwilling to render assistance. pendent body. Unfortunately, too many members of the I receive numerous complaints about the Police Force regard many if not all of the activities or actions of members of the Police general public as potential criminals. That 1366 Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill

is a wrong attitude for police officers to I bring to the Minister's attention the adopt. Officious police officers give the inadequacy of facilities for juvenile offenders Police Force and their fellow policemen a in North Queensland. A juvenile offender bad name. It is for this reason that there remanded before the court in Innisfail can is a reluctance on the part of many persons be sent to a care-and-protection centre in to come forward and assist police. No-one Townsville. If it is likelv that he will who was involved in the baton incident abscond, he can either be· thrown in the would willingly come forward. local lockup or be sent to Westbrook. That As I say, one clause of the Bill refers to is very unsatisfactory. A juvenile care-and­ the liability of the Crown in respect of control centre is needed urgently to cater torts committed by police officers. But what for the area north of Townsville. I ask is the position of the person who assists the the Minister to take particular note of my police officer? How far will the Crown come request because the juvenile crime rate is out on his side? As I understand it, the rising. Fortunately, the juvenile crime Bill makes no provision for that. If a per­ rate in Innisfail is not as high as it is in son fails to go to the assistance of the police, Tully and Babinda. However, we have a he is liable to a fine of $200. But what number of juvenile offenders, some as young protection is he given if he does go to the as 8 years of age. Not long ago, a lad assistance of police? I should like to know of about 11 who appeared before the Court the Minister's attitude on that matter and was remanded to appear in Townsville a why the Bill does not cover such a situation. week later. We did not know what to do The other clauses appear to be reasonably with him. The child welfare officer was straightforward. They merely tidy up cer­ concerned because it was the lad's birthday tain sections of the Act. There is, however, during that week, so he asked the magistrate an important point in relation to penalties. to release the child to the care of his parents. As most of the penalties under the Act are Two days later the lad reappeared before being increased, I want to know why the the court on five charges of breaking and penalty under section 11 (2) dealing with entering. If we had had a facility to cater for summary punishment for misconduct is not that young fellow, the additional charges being increased. I should like to know may not have arisen. Therefore, I draw whether there has been an oversight or if the Minister's attention to that need in Far there is good reason for the omission. North Queensland. I shall be interested to hear from the Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ Minister answers to the points I have raised. Minister for Primary Industries) for Hon. Mrs. KIPPIN (Mourilyan) (8.16 p.m.): I R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for welcome this opportunity to support the Mines, Energy and Police) (8.21 p.m.), in amendments outlined by the Minister, par­ reply: I thank the honourable members for ticularly the one that enables the Police Nudgee and Mourilyan for their comments Force to eo-opt the assistance of the general and observations. public. On occasions in my electorate insuf­ The Bill amends the Police Act, which, of ficient police have been available to handle course, is a wide-ranging piece of legisla­ certain situations. Fortunately, people have tion. The honourable member for Nudgee come forward readily to help the police. commented on the appointment of two new Each year a famous (or infamous) race assistant commissioners. I think he said that meeting is held at Mt. Garnet in my elec­ he hoped they would be in the country torate. It causes an influx of thousands of areas. people. A couple of years ago a serious Mr. Vaughan: I said that I hoped not all confrontation took place between 40 to 60 of them would be stationed in Brisbane. bikies and 40 to 60 ringers. It looked as if a very interesting situation could Mr. SULLIVAN: The structure of the develop. Police Force is such that we have 10 police An Opposition Member interjected. districts. The officer in charge of each is a superintendent, a very senior and experienced Mrs. KIPPIN: They were armed, and that man. was the problem. Mr. K. J. Hooper: You're not really sure Because we had been forewarned that the about this, Mr. Minister. bikies would try to upset the meeting, I asked for police reinforcements. I was told Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The honourable that police had been allocated to Mt. Garnet member for Archerfield knows that he should for the week-end but that they were on not interject from other than his usual stand-by at Cairns, which is at least 8 hours place. away by car. On that occasion members of the public came forward bravely to assist the Mr. SULLIVAN: I would hope that he police, and that incident made me realise would not try to distract me, Mr. Speaker. how often, and in what situations, the He knows that my knowledge of primary police need assistance. In no way could industries is better than my knowledge of we have had enough police in the town to police matters. cope with such a confrontation. It was Superintendents are very experienced men essential that members of the public come who are capable of administering their dis­ forward. tricts. I am not saying that the honourable Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill 1367

member was trying to write them down. We The only people they really affect are the have a commissioner, a deputy commissioner law-breakers. I like to believe that 99.5 per and three assistant commissioners. This will cent of people live within the law. If a make provision for five assistants. I under­ law-breaker comes into conflict with the pol­ stand it is intended that one of those five ice, he leads with his chin and expects what be appointed as assistant commissioner is coming to him. (country). He will have a fairly wide area of Some people have criticised our banning responsibility, but no doubt he will be well of street marches. According to this after­ chosen for the job. noon's "Telegraph", traffic came to a halt The honourable member mentioned other at the Griffith Universitv because of law­ matters. One was his concern about ex-ser­ breakers taking part in a protest march. Law­ vicemen being allowed to be recruited into abiding people going about their business the force up to 40 years of age. This was were inconvenienced by the activities of these done to allow people retiring from the ser­ law-breakers. Decent people will always give vices to enter the Police Force. His con­ to the police the support they so richly cern was that a serviceman was taught to deserve. kill. Many of them are not-for example, Motion (Mr. Sullivan) agreed to. the fellow who does the cooking. As an old sergeant-major-perhaps not so old in those CoMMITTEE days-I know that during the war we trained people to kill and to survive; but I (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair) do not think we need have any fears in Clauses 1 to 4, both inclusive, as read, peace-time that a person recruited from the agreed to. services into the Police Force would have Clause 5-Amendment of s. 7; Present the desire to kill. Commissioner to remain in office- Mr. Vaughan: They're not dummy guns Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (8.29 p.m.): In they've got; they're Armalite rifles. the future we will have a commissioner, a deputy commissioner and four assistant com­ Mr. SULLIVAN: I cannot understand the missioners. In reply to a question I asked in honourable member, and I cannot see what my second-reading speech, the Minister said he is holding up. that one of the assistant commissioners would If a man commits a civil wrong-and be assistant commissioner (country). An this is another matter that the honourable analysis of the organisational chart in the member raised-whether he is a policeman latest annual report shows that we already or a civilian assisting a policeman, he can have such an officer although he is based in be sued for damages. This Act makes the Brisbane. Notwithstanding the capacity and Crown liable for the acts of its servant, efficiency of the superintendents in the police the police officer. The Act does not make districts, we should have someone in author­ ity, as an assistant commissioner, in the the Crown-which is another way of saying Northern Region, the Central Region and the taxpayer-liable for damages awarded against a civilian, because that means neg­ perhaps in the Far-western Region. We ligence or wilful wrong. I have sought already have an assistant commissioner (country) and an assistant commissioner advice on that from my colleague the Minis­ (metropolitan). ter for Survey and Valuation, who is a legal man. Mr. Casey: We couldn't appoint one to A number of honourable members spoke Townsville, because he wouldn't fit in the old in the introductory debate and their queries police station up there. were, I think, answered tonight in the mater­ Mr. VAUGHAN: Is that a fact? ial prepared for me by the Minister for Mines, Energy and Police and his department. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Most honourable members will agree that we Row): Order! The honourable member wiH can be proud of our Police Force. Our address his remarks to the Chair. policemen do an excellent job. Theirs is not Mr. VAUGHAN: I want some clear indi­ an easy task. cation as to whether the assistant commis­ Mr. Casey: You wouldn't make a bad sioners will all be based in Brisbane. There Minister for Police. was one assistant commissioner in 1970. There have been three up to the present and now Mr. SULLIVAN: Why does the honour­ there will be a fourth. The position of deputy able member always spoil things? Sometimes commissioner was abolished in 1970 and I wonder. restored in 1977. In Brisbane there will be a commissioner, deputy commissioner and four There was a time when young people assistant commissioners. respected the policeman. I do not think that Mr. Moore: Will they get air flights? the policeman has earned any disrespect in 1978. Regrettably young people do not Mr. VAUGHAN: Yes. They even get war­ receive the same discipline in the home and rants to come to Brisbane on special occasions. at school as they used to. In spite of all I want some indication of what the pos­ that, my opinion of our policemen is that ition will be. Will they all be stationed in they are conscientious and are always there. Brisbane or will there be one in Cairns, one 1368 Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill

in Townsville and one in a western area? I appointed to bring the number to four and think it is very important to have a chain of a fifth could possibly be appointed within a command throughout the State. The Minister short time, I think it would be ridiculous to said that there was to be a change in the have them all in Brisbane. I want to know organisational structure of the Police Force this, particularly as the Minister stated in and that administration was to move from a the introductory debate that there was going geographical basis to a functional basis. There to be a change in the structure of the Police has to be some elaboration by the Minister on Force. I want to know how it is to be effected. that. Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine-Min­ Minister for Primary Industries) for Hon. ister for Primary Industries) for Hon. R. E. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for Mines, Mines, Energy and Police) (8.35 p.m.): I Energy and Police) (8.32 p.m.): As to the am not being facetious, but the point is that honourable member's concern about the two we are amending the Act to provide for two additional assistant commissioners, I might further assistant commissioners. When we say that at present there is an assistant com­ amend legislation to allow for certain things missioner (country), an assistant commissioner to happen, whether it is in my department or (crime) and an assistant commissioner (train­ other departments, it is then the responsibility ing). The amendment allows the appointment of the departmental head, or in this case of two further assistant commissioners. It will be the responsibility of the commissioner the commissioner and his senior staff, to and his administration to determine at the carry out those amendments. In this case appropriate time just what these officers will it is the responsibility of the commissioner do. The honourable member has expressed to deploy these assistant commissioners to his concern and no doubt it will be taken into the best advantage. I have pointed out that consideration when decisions of this nature there are 10 police districts with a superin­ are being taken. tendent in charge of each one. It is not for us here to determine-and I am not going Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (8.33 p.m.): On to tell the honourable member-where these 30 March 1977, as reported at page 2779 of assistant commissioners will be stationed, Volume 272 of "Hansard", the then Minister whether it will be Maryborough, Mackay, for Police said- Proserpine or anywhere else, even if that is ·'Because of these and other factors the what he wants me to do. It is the respon­ administrative work-loads of the assistant sibility of the Minister, in co-operation with commissioners are heavy and becoming his commissioner, to determine this. The heavier. The time available to them to honourable member has expressed his con­ inspect stations throughout the State and to cern and said what he thinks should be investigate efficiency at regional, district and done. Perhaps his suggestions will be taken divisional level is insufficient and becoming into account when decisions are made; per­ less sufficient. To overcome this situation, haps not. That is as far as I am prepared it is proposed to restore the rank of Deputy to go tonight. Commissioner of Police." I do not envisage the Deputy Commissioner of Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (8.36 p.m.): I Police touring around the State very often but appreciate that I am not going to get an I do think it is the responsibility of assistant answer from the Minister for Primary Indus­ commissioners to carry out the functions tries, but I want to make it quite clear that referred to by the Minister for Police in 1977. this amendment is too open-ended, particu­ Their functions were then described as being larly when we are increasing the number "to investigate efficiency at regional, district from three to five, even though the Minister and divisional level." has stated that only one will be appointed. I would expect the Minister for Police to As I said before, there is already an assist­ have investigated the situation quite exten­ ant commissioner (country) based in Bris­ sively when considering an increase in the bane. There is an assistant commissioner number of assistant commissioners from three (administration and training) based in Bris­ to five and that he would have been able bane. There is an assistant commissioner to tell us here and now what was envisaged (metropolitan) based in Brisbane. There is a in the change in the organisational strength Commissioner of Police based in Brisbane and of the Police Force. I do not hold the a Deputy Commissioner of Police based in Minister for Primary Industries responsible, Brisbane. Situations have developed in North but I think it remiss of the Minister for Queensland which show an apparent lack of supervision. There is a great need for a senior Police in this instance not to have been able officer to be stationed in North Queensland. to tell this Chamber here and now what the Government intends to do about the selec­ I appreciate the position in which the Min­ tion and appointment of these assistant com­ ister acting at present for the Minister for missioners. Police is placed. I have read the debates that took place in 1970 at the time of the initial Clause 5, as read, agreed to. appointment of assistant commissioners. At Clauses 6 to 26, both inclusive, as read, that time emphasis was placed on the loca­ agreed to. tions in which these officers were to be based. Until now they have been based in Brisbane. Clause 27-New s. 59A; Assistance to If another assistant commissioner is to be police- Police Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Police Act Amendment Bill 1369

Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (8.39 p.m.): If "Unless you come to my aid, you will be I understand the Minister correctly, he liable to a fine of $200", can be fined if indicated that in the case of a person who he does not go to the aid of the policeman. was required by a policeman to go to his The policeman could be carrying out an assistance in respect of some altercation, unlawful arrest. That policeman could him­ there was no protection for that person self be committing a breach of an Act and similar to that provided for the policeman become liable and might not know it at the in a later part of the Bill in respect of torts. time; but he drags in an unfortunate citizen Is that correct? The Crown affords no pro­ under a threat of a $200 fine. That poor tection for a citizen who is required to go citizen has no protection whatsoever. He and assist the police. I envisage a situation certainly has no time to get legal advice. where the policeman would be protected by I strongly object to the provision unless a the Crown in the event of some issues of guarantee is given that a provision will be tort but not the person who was required to inserted to protect such citizens in the same go to his assistance. I would like to get manner as policemen are protected. some clarification of that. It seems that a policeman will be empowered to demand Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ that a member of the public go to his assist­ Minister for Primary Industries) for Hon. ance and if he does not he can be charged R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for and be liable to a fine of $200. On the Mines, Energy and Police) (8.45 p.m.): I am other hand, if he does go to the assistance not going to continue with an argument of that policeman and they both get into across the Chamber with the honourable strife and there is a court case, the police­ member. I have answered his question as I man is protected by the Crown but the believe it should be answered. citizen is not. Question-That clause 27, as read, stand Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ part of the Bill-put; and the Committee Minister for Primary Industries) for Hon. divided- R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for AYES, 39 Mines, Energy and Police) (8.40 p.m.): There Akers Kyburz is provision in the Criminal Code for anybody Austin Lester Bertoni Miller who goes to the assistance of the police and Bishop Moo re is injured to be compensated. That provision Bjelke-Petersen Muller was brought in by this Government some Booth Neal Bourke Newbery time ago. The answer to the honourable Edwards Powell member's question is that there is a provision Elliott Scassola for their protection. Frawley Scott-Young Glasson Simpson Golehy Sullivan Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (8.41 p.m.): Greenwood Tomkins That is not the point of my argument. I am Gunn Turner Hartwig Wharton not talking about his being compensated for Hewitt, W. D. White injury. I am talking about the situation Hinze when a person might be sued for damages Katter Tellers: Kaus because of what he might have done when Kippin Ahern assisting a policeman. I am not concerned Knox Gygar about compensation. I think it is encumbent upon the Minister to indicate that the Police NOES, 21 Act will be amended to provide that persons Blake Prest D'Arcy Scott who are eo-opted by officers of the Police Davis Shaw Force will be protected in the same way as Fouras Underwood a policeman is protected. Gibbs, R. J. Vaughan Hansen Warburton Hooper, K. J. Wilson Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ Houston Minister for Primary Industries) for Hon. Jones Tellers: Kruger R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for Mackenroth Casey Mines, Energy and Police) (8.42 p.m.): I Milliner Wright answered part of the honourable member's PAms: question before, which I will not repeat. If Herbert Burns a person assisting the police does some wrong Hewitt, N. T. E. Yewdale to a citizen and is taken to court and the Resolved in the affirmative. court finds that he has broken the law, then he is responsible for his own actions. The Clauses 28 and 29, as read, agreed to. taxpayer is not going to be asked to pay for Clause 30-Amendment of s.64; Where his wrong. It is as simple as that. offender may be arrested- Mr. V AUGHAN (Nudgee) (8.43 p.m.): A Mr. HANSEN (Maryborough) (8.51 p.m.): policeman is trained in the law. He is I seek an explanation or an assurance from supposed to know how far he can go when the Minister on the rights and privacy of he is apprehending a person for an alleged individuals. This clause relates particularly breach of the Criminal Code or some other to the taking of photographs, fingerprints, Act, but the person who is eo-opted, the footprints arid palmprints of a person who person who is dragged into it and told, is arrested. My query is answered in part 63225-45 1370 Surveyors Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] City of Brisbane, &c., Bill by the provision that the photograph, finger­ the work if it is satisfactory. If a surveyor print, footprint or palmprint of a person considers that his client's interests would be who is found not guilty or not proceeded served more efficiently by a method of survey against shall forthwith be destroyed, but I different from that which is normally should like to know how these things will accepted, he may seek the approval of the be destroyed. board for the new method. If the board does Should they be delivered to the person not have that power of approval, then a sur­ concerned or is it to be taken for granted veyor is forced to conform to old methods that they are destroyed? Many people believe and the use of old equipment which would that their privacy is invaded if they are be prescribed by detailed regulations. photographed or fingerprinted, and especially This very short amendment to the Sur­ if they are found not guilty, they always veyors Act 1977 will ensure that modern have the thought that perhaps the records have not been destroyed. Perhaps they practices can be adopted by the surveying could be returned to the person concerned. profession without delay. I ask the Minister to explain if there is Mr. MILLINER (Everton) (8.57 p.m.): As any method by which this identifying data I said at the introductory stage, the Survey­ is to be destroyed? ors Act of 1977 was a milestone for the sur­ Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ veying profession. Among other things, it Minister for Primary Industries) for Hon. brought the profession in Queensland up to R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister for date with the other States. The Opposition Mines, Energy and Police) (8.53 p.m.): I has studied in detail the provisions of the am informed that it is mandatory that they Bill. We find nothing wrong with them and be destroyed. If someone is concerned or therefore will not be opposing the Bill. not satisfied about the integrity of the police, Motion (Mr. Greenwood) agreed to. or believes that these items have not been destroyed, he can request to be present when they are being destroyed. COMMITTEE Clause 30, as read, agreed to. (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) Clauses 31 to 36, both inclusive, and Clauses 1 to 3, both inclusive, as read, schedule, as read, agreed to. agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. Bill reported, without amendment.

THIRD READING THIRD READING Bill, on motion of Mr. Sullivan, by leave, Bill, on motion of Mr. Greenwood, by read a third time. leave, read a third time.

SURVEYORS ACT AMENDMENT BILL CITY OF BRISBANE MARKET ACT SECOND READING AMENDMENT BILL

Hon. J. W. GREENWOOD (Ashgrove­ SECOND READING Minister for Survey and Valuation) (8.55 Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ p.m.): I move- Minister for Primary Industries) (9 p.m.): I "That the Bill be now read a second move- time." "That the Bill be now read a second As I explained in the introduction, this Bill time." aims to give power to make regulations enab­ As I explained when introducing this Bill, ling the Surveyors Board to issue directions its purpose is to provide the Brisbane ~arket to survevors to achieve a certain standard Trust, which is responsible for operatiOn of of accuracy, allowing the use of standard the Brisbane Market at Rocklea, with powers rules published by recognised authorities, and relating to the operation and control of this permitting the approval of the Surveyor­ market. General or the board to be a standard to be applicable in a particular case. At this stage I want to make the point that the Brisbane Market Trust is not a Surveying contains such a wide range of marketing body or board. It is a non-profit, technical activities performed in so many non-trading group or trust responsible for different circumstances that it has not been ensuring the effective operation of a public possible at any time to set out regulations facility, which is the Brisbane Market. defining the method of performance and the The members of the trust, as the hon­ accuracy to be achieved for every survey. ourable member for Redlands has explained, Nevertheless it is necessary that the board include representatives of growers, whole­ should have power to direct a surveyor to salers, Government, and the Brisbane City achieve a certain accuracy when he is per­ Council. The trust is in effect a landlord forming a particular survey. providing facilities to- wholesalers or agents. If the board has that power, it is able to Rental payments by agents are used to examine the work of a surveyor who uses finance the capital works programme and new equipment and new methods and approve to maintain and expand facilities. City of Brisbane Market [31 MAY 1978] Act Amendment Bill 1371

The Brisbane Market itself represents a produce on Sunday, the fact that Easter multimillion-dollar investment which now Monday was a holiday meant that the market provides one of the best markets in Aus­ was not operating to accept produce. tralia. While the market is referred to as Growers and transport operators generally the Brisbane Market, it is in fact a market would have been aware of this and that it to which fruit and vegetables come from is only in relation to special circumstances all parts of Queensland and other States. and with the prior approval of the trust that Produce from the Brisbane Market goes to produce can be delivered into the market Cairns, Mt. Isa and as far away as Perth. outside of prescribed hours. It is a terminal market and as such plays a significant role in the overall Australian It seems that in the particular situation fruit and vegetable industry. In 1976-77 the raised by the honourable member for Mans­ value of produce sold through the Brisbane field a communication problem existed. It Market was estimated at $70,000,000. would appear that the grower may not have been aware of the trust's requirements for The honourable member for Mackay has this day and that the trust was not made correctly pointed to the fact that the fruit fully aware of this grower's special problems. and vegetable industry is now one of the The honourable member for Somerset State's major industries. The honourable also referred to problems in relation to member, in referring to problems of supply hours of trading. It is my belief that the of fresh fruit in North Queensland, has also amendments proposed in this Bill will enable drawn attention to the problems of trans­ the trust to overcome some existing problems port and storage. Anyone who has followed such as those raised by honourable members. the fruit and vegetable industry in recent years would know that tremendous changes I would now like to turn to the provisions have been taking place with containerisa­ of the current Bill concerning the appoint­ tion, palletisation and refrigeration, especi­ ment and powers of inspectors. I have ally pre-cooled refrigerated transport. already outlined the reasons why these inspec­ tors of the trust are considered necessary. The honourable member for Somerset has already referred to some of the problems I have noted the concern expressed by the in this area. Considerable attention is being honourable members for Mackay and Towns­ given to these problems by my department ville about the need to ensure that inspectors and all sectors of the industry. do not have powers which can infringe civil liberties and which might lead them to I can find sympathy with the honourable invade the privacy of the home. I fully member for Callide in his concern about endorse the view that we need to proceed with changes which have taken place with the caution in legislating in this area. loss of some of our smaller growers selling I am pleased that the honourable member in roadside stalls. However, costs in fruit for Townsville said he would vote for the and vegetable-growing today increasingly Bill if I could show him that it requires require growers to make all posts winners the issue of a warrant to search premises in in terms of yields, quality, packing, refriger­ which people live. I draw attention to ation and transport. On the other hand, subsection 3 of section 25C. consumers buying -from supermarkets and I would also point out the proviSIOns of retailers want the best value for money. The subsection 2 of section 25C, which also growers' and the consumers' needs therefore require the inspector to have a certificate of dictate the maintenance of a very efficient appointment issued by the trust and an transport and marketing system for fruit and instruction in writing issued by the chair­ vegetables. man of the trust authorising the inspector One of the objectives of this Bill is to to inspect or search the nominated premises. enable the Brisbane Market Trust to ensure I feel these powers provide very stringent that produce delivered to the Brisbane Mar­ procedures and sufficient safeguards against ket is adequately packed, and that transport, the abuse of any powers inspectors may have. storage and handling within the market are This Bill reviews and increases penalties for carried out as efficiently as possible. For offences set in the original 1960 legislation. these same reasons this Bill also provides It also provides for appointment of deputies for the trust to be able to set minimum for members of the Brisbane Market Trust, sizes of parcels which may be sold and to while other provisions generally update the determine the hours of selling \Vithin the existing Act. Brisbane Market. I commend the Bill to the House. The honourable member for Mansfield has referred to a problem which one grower has Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (9.7 p.m.): The had in getting access to the market because Opposition accepts that the Bill is, in the of existing selling or delivery times. I have main, a machinery measure for the operation had my departmental officers look into the of the Brisbane market. Without this mar­ matter he raised. Apparently this concerned ket, of course, there would not be orderly a grower from the Sunnybank area who marketing of fruit and vegetables in this wanted to deliver beans to the market on State. Perhaps I should say orderly market­ Easter Sunday. This was because he had ing in part because it is unfortunate that access to a picking machine on the Sunday. many markets are still manipulated by big While the market would normally accept chain stores and other similar groups. 1372 City of Brisbane Market [31 MAY 1978] Act Amendment Bill

Since the introduction of the Bill, I and be borne somewhere along the line, and it my colleague the honourable member for will be either the producer who will not Murrumba visited the market early one receive a return or the consumer who will morning and studied its full operations at suffer from a lowering of standards. Even first hand. Certainly the Brisbane Market the agent might suffer under this Bill. Trust does a good job and I commend its officers on the way in which they do all It always seems to me that the powers of that they can to ensure that there is orderly these inspectors flow one way. We often marketing of fruit and vegetables in Queens­ find somebody who is a little officious in land. But outside the market it is unfor­ carrying out his or her work, and this can tunately true that many things happen that become rather a burden on the public. I are detrimental to the industry. think the rights of the public, the grower and even the agent must be better looked The whole purpose of the City of Bris­ after. We have to be fair. Whilst we can bane Market Act is to bring about some meas­ be critical of the agents, and I probably ure of control between the producer and the will be this evening, they still conduct their consumer, for their mutual benefit. Unfor­ business in the market and we must ensure tunately much of the marketing system is that the inspectors are fair to everybody. overloaded with middle men. There is a A number of growers face marketing fair amount of unnecessary handling of some problems. I met many potato growers in commodities and, as was mentioned during the Lockyer and Fassifern Valley areas while discussion of the Litter Act in the Chamber I was having a look at some of the prob­ just the other day, much unnecessary pack­ lems up there. These growers told me they aging. This significantly increases the cost are having trouble marketing their potatoes of the packaged articles. When apples, for instance, are packed individually in trays because of competition from frozen potatoes they look very attractive, but somewhere imported from overseas. This concerned me along the line the housewife has to pay for greatly and it must be of great concern to this type of packaging. Nor are there as the Minister, too. I would like to see him many apples in a case as there were under take a fairly firm stand on this problem at older methods of packing. the next meeting of the Australian Agricul­ tural Council on behalf of the potato I think that nowadays packaging is taken growers of this State. a little to excess. It is all very well to It is not only the potato growers in the have commodities well displayed for a quality southern part of the State who are having market, but not all fruit and vegetables are sold on a quality market. Most housewives problems, because last week I had discus­ buying fruit for children's lunches would sions with potato growers on the Atherton prefer small apples to large ones and they Tableland. The Minister would appreciate are not really interested in the way in which that the growers on the Atherton Tableland they are packaged. They are more inter­ just cannot use the Brisbane market and so ested in the number in the container so they face probably even greater marketing that they will go further among the family. problems than the southern growers. They This is one aspect of the marketing of fruit can develop local markets, but unless they and vegetables which seems to me to be a are able to supply a frozen food processor, little awkward for the consumer. The pres­ they are forced to export interstate. Because ent methods of packaging also mean unneces­ of their distance from large-scale markets, sary costs. they face the problem of competition within Australia, but when they are also facing I think we also see some unnecessary strong competition from overseas imports it regulations from time to time in this field. becomes almost impossible for them to find As the Minister explained, one of the main markets. purposes of this Bill is the appointment of inspectors. I support the proposal because During the introductory debate I men­ there is a need for proper inspections if we tioned the problems of people in the North are going to have a system of orderly mar­ in getting fresh fruit from the markets. keting, but at the same time it seems unfor­ Northern producers also strike problems if tunate that we are appointing inspectors for they wish to send their goods through the this, that and every other thing. The public Brisbane Market in order to gain access to must be getting heartily sick and tired of the large consumer area in the south-east inspectors poking into their lives. corner of the State. Because they must go through the Brisbane Market in order to This Bill also gives certain powers to sell their produce down here, they are being these inspectors, and whilst they are virtually hit to leg in freight charges, especially when all necessary under the wording of the Bill, we remember that rail freights have just I am concerned about the power of seizure. gone up again qy 15 per cent. This is having I think when the regulations are introduced a severe effect on the vegetable industry in the power of seizure will have to be the North, and also on those producers of examined fairly closely because in the main specialised fruits which are grown in Far we are dealing with perishable commodities. North Queensland. I think we must take a While there might not be a problem with a firm stand on the matter. In this regard I bag of potatoes or onions, care will have to mention Bowen tomato growers, who are be taken with tomatoes, lettuce, bananas able to market their crop earlier than and other fruit, which has a tendency to go tomato growers in other areas and thus help rotten very quickly. The cost will have to to provide quality produce all the year round. Dairy Produce Bill [31 MAY 1978] Dairy Produce Bill 1373

The people in the isolated fruit and The honourable member also drew atten­ vegetable-growing areas must be looked after. tion to the need for factories to update The Department of Primary Industries must their plants, and he referred to new plants give them special attention. I am not which have been installed by Q.U.F. in saying that the officers of the department are Brisbane, the Booval factory of the Queens­ not giving them all the advice that is neces­ land Farmers Co-operative Dairy Association, sary, but I think the advisory service, which and the Malanda factory of the Atherton is the Minister's responsibility, could give Tableland Co-operative Dairy Association. further assistance to improve production and Other members also referred to the com­ productivity. mendable efforts which have been made by Those are the major points I wanted to many dairy associations in upgrading their mention. I could speak on others, but as dairy factories with the objective of supply­ the Minister has indicated that at some time ing liquid milk and other dairy products of in the future he may be bringing forward the highest quality to the public. amendments to other Acts such as the Farm The honourable member for Redlands drew Produce Agents Act, it would probably be attention to the need to maintain quality more appropriate to speak about them then. standards of bulk milk. In this regard hon­ I reiterate that the Opposition supports the ourable members will note that the Bill makes measures contained in this Bill. provision for the certification of bulk-milk tanker drivers. The dairying industry has Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ changed enormously in recent years with Minister for Primary Industries) (9.16 p.m.), the widespread adoption of farm refrigera­ in reply: I thank the honourable member for tion and bulk-milk handling. As a result, Mackay for saying that what is contained in farmers' produce cannot be graded and the Bill is acceptable to the Opposition. I sampled for quality on receipt at the factory; think all members indicated their acceptance instead, it must be graded and sampled at of it. each dairy by the bulk-milk tanker driver. 1\'Iotion (Mr. Sullivan) agreed to. Consequently, it is absolutely necessary that these tanker drivers possess certificates of COMMITTEE competency to carry out this work. (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) The honourable member for Ipswich West Clauses 1 to 11, both inclusive, as read, referred to the matter of artificial dairy agreed to. products. All members will be aware, of Bill reported, without amendment. course, that although some imitation prod­ ucts have found their way on to the market, THIRD READ!l'\G these products cannot be labelled as dairy Bill, on motion of Mr. Sullivan, by leave, produce. The Bill contains clauses prohibit­ read a third time. ing the sale of dairy produce of inferior standard, passing off inferior produce, sale of unsound produce and adulteration. DAIRY PRODUCE BILL The honourable member for Cooroora SECOND READING drew attention to the need for research into Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ new dairy products. The Government has Minister for Primary Industries) (9.20 p.m.): strongly supported research to develop new I move- dairy products and to find new means of using existing products. This research has "That the Bill be now read a second been, and still is, carried out at the Otto time." Madsen Dairy Research Laboratory estab­ The Dairy Produce Act is a technical and lished by the Government in 1967. He also regulatory Act designed to ensure adequate asked for some investigation into the devel­ supervision over the production, manufac­ opment of a spread manufactured from a ture, storage and sale of dairy produce. The blend of butterfat and vegetable oil Re­ quality of dairy produce must be safeguarded, search carried out in Queensland and also in and I was pleased to hear a number of hon­ South Australia has shown that such a prod­ ourable members refer to this need during uct containing some 12 to 15 per cent of the introductory debate. vegetable oil is very easily spreadable and I would stress that the Dairy Produce Act could provide competition on this score with is not a marketing Act. It does not deal with margarine. The work in this area has been such aspects as milk quotas, entitlements, completed, but the product has not yet been prices, distribution patterns, production eco­ manufactured commercially in this country. nomics, marketing arrangements, sales pro­ The honourable member for South Bris­ motion, etc. bane has drawn attention to the need to up­ During the introductory debate, the hon­ date and clarify the Dairy Produce Act and ourable member for Mackav raised the mat­ to a number of aspects of the Bill, and I ter of the value of new equipment which thank him for his comments in regard to requires ministerial approval before installa­ these matters. tion. In the Bill this value has been increased He mentioned the work being carried out from $2,000 to $5,000 in keeping with at the dairy research laboratory and the need changes in money values. for similar research in other food industries. 1374 Dairy Produce Bill [31 MAY 1978] Dairy Produce Bill

He also supported the objective of my dep­ . This is a time of oversupply in the dairy artment in having industry undertake a mdustry and the number of dairymen is still greater share of its own quality control and declining, but none the less the legislation services. This means that dairy factories will is very important because it ensures that need to set up their own laboratories and the milk in its various forms reaches the provide competent people to carry out the consumer as a good, healthy and wholesome testing procedures. product. Registration of these laboratories and the Since the introductory stage I have visited certification as to competency of persons milk factories in various parts of the State. employed in them are important new provi­ Most of them are doing their best to give sions of the Bill. In this regard, officers and the consumers good quality products. Many facilities of my department have been avail­ of them have excellent laboratorv and able to train factory personnel in carrying handling facilities and the Bill includes pro­ out laboratory procedures and to assist them visions to cover these matters. in standardising methods to achieve uniform­ I am concerned about the powers being ity. given to inspectors. As I pointed out in the Standards of hygiene of production hand­ debate on the City of Brisbane Market Act ling and storage of dairy produce 'are of once again we seem to haye an inspecto; the utmost importance to the health and for this, that and everything else. It seems welfare of the community and also to the that dairy industry inspectors are to be industry itself. Similarly, standards of com­ given singular powers. Everything is con­ position are very important and can be main­ trolled by the inspector's decision. Some­ times inspectors become a little overpowering tained only by constant supervision. and aggressive in carrying out their work. The maintenance of quality is one of the Any person who stands up for his rights primary objectives of the Bill, and my dep­ can find himself in breach of the Act, and artment has carried out a great deal of the Bill outlines how evidentiary matters will work in the development of testing tech­ be placed before a court. Court action can niques which are applicable to present-day easily result when an inspector who is given industry needs and which are capable of being singular power carries out his job officiously. adopted and utilised by individual factories. Unfortunately an inspector can carry out Dairy factories will still continue to seek his duties in a most undemocratic way and assistance from the department in the solu­ engender bad public relations. tion of problems as they arise, and such While the provisions are in the Act, some­ assistance will readily be made available. where along the line, by way of regulation, I commend the Bill for the further con­ we must make things a little better for sideration of the House. consumers, producers and dairy factories. An inspector who goes into a factory and finds a problem such as the salmonella outbreak ~r. CASEY (Mackay) (9.25 p.m.): At that occurred in Victoria last year must have th1s stage I accept the Minister's statement wide-ranging powers. We have to ensure that the Bill is not a marketing one. How­ that a product that is poisonous or mav have ever, it is a little difficult to say about some a detrimental effect on the health of a con­ of the provisions in the Act that they do not siderable number of people does not leave relate to price, distribution and so on because the factory; so the inspector has to take the legislation has an effect on these matters. strong action straight away. None the less, It . controls tanker routes, pick-ups, delivery these powers are sometimes abused by pomts and milk runs. All of these matters inspectors, who do not do themselves or are tied in with the overall pricing arrange­ anybody else any good. ments o~ the dairy industry. Pricing, of course, IS related to the entitlement and I mentioned earlier the regulatory control ~ffi~iency of. a dairy farm er and these days of tankers and tanker routes, for which pro­ 1t IS recogmsed as being very much tied in vision is made in the Act. In Queensland we with the entitlement and efficiency of a have to look at this very seriously, particu­ factory. The small factories that have not larly because of the stringent marketing pro­ been able to raise the necessary capital to visions that look like being eventually install modern equipment to produce homo­ introduced in other States. We have to genised milk, new dairy products and pack­ consider the detrimental effect of that on our aging methods have gone to the wall. producers. We must look carefully at the activities of interstate tanker drivers. These The Opposition accepts that it is necessary fellows seem to be travelling around the to upgrade the legislation. Since it was countryside a fair bit in unmarked tankers. reviewed a few years ago, distinct and definite At the time the Milk Supply Act was changes have occurred in the overall opera­ introduced last year, concern was expressed tions of th.e dairy industry, particulariy in about milk being transferred from one fac­ the marketmg sector. The whole operation tory to another. That has to be done in depends on selling a quality product in an a tanker. Whilst there is nothing wrong attractive way. If a factory cannot do that about our approval of tankers, our laws the dairy farmer will not get a return larg~ covering certification of drivers, where the enough to encourage him to supply the milk has come from, and where it is going factory with sufficient milk. to have to be a little bit tighter. That can Dairy Produce Bill [31 MAY 1978] Dairy Produce Bill 1375

be done only by regulation. In particular, into an enterprise that will have adequate we have to consider how we can control the remuneration. I certainly agree that we activities of interstate tanker drivers, because should try to hold the numbers we have their operations are not in the best interests now, that we should establish good standards of the industry overall in Queensland. I and that we should maintain the quality. am sure that the Minister would agree with I believe the Bill will help to do all of those that observation. things and I support it. I am very happy to see that the Bill pro­ vides for further regulation of vendors. I hope Mr. PREST (Port Curtis) (9.35 p.m.): Only that is introduced on a much broader scale. one part of the Bill concerns me and that In my own area the vendors are well organ­ is the reference to the collection of bulk ised on a self-regulatory basis, and have been milk from dairies by qualified persons. for a number of years. They provide an Although in my area dairying has been exceptional example of the way in which almost a dying industry over the past few milk can be marketed to the consumer. If years, we are still interested in the farmers such a system were extended to the other who are producing milk for the factory. areas of the State, it would be in the best It is essential that the milk arrives at the interests of all concerned. factory in the best possible condition to ensure that the milk supplied to the con­ The Bill does not really contain any major new provisions. It upgrades previous legisla­ sumer is in Al condition. We are very tion and brings the Act more into line with pleased to read that the truck drivers who modern operations of the dairying industry, are collecting the milk from the dairies have as the Minister explained. The Opposition to pass an examination and become qual­ fully supports the Bill. ified. We go along with that because it will ensure that they will not mix first­ Mr. BOOTH (Warwick) (9.33 p.m.): I grade milk with milk of a lower quality. would like to make a short contribution. The honourable member for Mackay seems It is essential that the milk be transported to be obsessed with the idea that inspectors by first-class means. This is almost impossible are appointed simply to harass the industry. in some areas, particularly my area, because I do not know what inference is intended. of road conditions. When the bulk milk Has he now decided that he is opposed to system was introduced we were told in this orderly marketing, or what? Under the Chamber that certain money was to be allo­ administration of our present Minister, the cated to the shires to upgrade these roads. inspectors have always done their job in a Unfortunately, insufficient money has been way that has been beneficial to the industry. made available by the Minister. At present, Whilst he is the Minister, I firmly believe the Port Curtis Dairy Co-operative has a that that will continue. I will not say any bulk milk truck on a run from Gladstone to more about that. the Many Peaks area and down as far as As to quality-honourable members can Makowata. It is costing the co-operative be assured that, wherever a dairy product and in particular the driver, Mr. Wex, a is bought in Queensland it will be top quality, great deal of money to keep the tanker and the consumer will get it every time. operational. It is no use having inspectors The reason is simply that we have had Acts or people qualified to make certain that the such as this. The only reason for this Bill milk that is put into the tanker is first is to upgrade and update the Act, bringing class unless the Government provides roads it more into line with conditions in 1978. that will permit the milk to arrive at the It is complementary to the Milk Supply factory in first-class condition. Act. Mr. Casey: Because of the rough roads I make the point that the sooner that Act in some areas, the milk almost turns into and this Bill are operational, the better it will butter on the way to the factory. be for the dairying industry in Queensland. I would like to see a higher degree of justice Mr. PREST: That is quite so. I am in the allocation of milk quotas throughout not saying that this is the fault of the the State. I do not think the postponement Minister for Primary Industries. Now that of any action will be of much use. The he realises the plight of the tanker drivers sooner we get on with the job of introducing in my area I am sure he will have a long a degree of justice into the allocation of talk with the Minister for Local Government milk quotas and bringing to this State some­ and Main Roads to see if he can increase thing that many of us have wanted to do and the allocation to the Calliope Shire and the have fought for over a number of years, the Miriam Vale Shire, for which the Minister better. for Works and Housing is the member, so The only other matter I want to mention that the roads can be upgraded in both of relates to the number of dairy farmers. I those shires which are designed as bulk milk think it was said by one honourable mem­ areas. ber-it might have been the member for Mackay-that we have too many dairy farm­ Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ ers. I do not think we have at the moment. Minister for Primary Industries) (9.39 p.m.), We have just about the correct number. in reply: I thank the honourable members I would certainly like to see the number of for Mackay and Port Curtis for their accep­ farmers in Queensland consolidated. I think tance of the Bill. I repeat that it is a we can bring them as a group of producers technical and regulatory Bill. 1376 Hen Quotas Act [31 MAY 1978) Amendment Bill

Concern was expressed about the inspec• The proposed amendment also provides tors. We are dealing with a perishable com­ such persons with the option of staying modity and we must have inspectors. I where they are and relinquishing their quotas think that must be accepted. to the committee for reallocation, at a price, Mr. Casey: Yes, but some people become to smaller producers. a little overpowering when doing their job. Several members mentioned matters relat­ Mr. SULLIVAN: I suppose that is a ing to the actual setting of individual quotas human trait, whether it is an inspector of and the means by which quota adjustments my department, a policeman or any other are made from time to time. I should type of inspector. The human element remind honourable members that the respon­ sometimes comes into it. sibility for administering the scheme rests with the Hen Quota Committee established I was a dairy farmer for 40 years. In under the Act. that period I would have known eight or 10 different inspectors. They approached The committee comprises four producer their job with a certain amount of toler­ representatives from all areas of the State, ance. If things were not up to standard together with the Director of Marketing. when they came along, they requested that The committee is therefore in the hands of they be brought up to standard. I did not growers themselves. All decisions of the have any trouble and I do not think other committee are open to review by an indepen­ people in the area did. The inspectors did dent Hen Quota Appeals Tribunal. Any have their responsibilities. A perishable person who is aggrieved by a decision of the foodstuff is being provided for the consuming committee has the right to lodge an appeal public and I think that the public, too, have with the tribunal. their rights. I do not think the honourable A number of honourable members raised member would disagree with that. the matter of inter-district distribution of I thank honourable members for their con­ hen quotas. In this regard, I can only tributions during the qebate. Now that the reaffirm what I believe to be a fair principle, honourable member for Warwick is back namely, that quotas will still not normally with us, I thank him, too, for his com­ move from one district to another under ments. He has had considerable experience the amended transfer provisions, but once in the dairying industry and has made a great again this is a matter for the committe~. contribution to it. If inter-district transfers do occur, they will Motion (Mr. Sullivan) agreed to. be from oversupply to undersupply areas. Since the quota scheme was first introduced, CoMMITTEE a certain degree of redistribution between dis­ (Mr. Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) tricts has occurred. Clauses 1 to 57, both inclusive, and In late 1976 and early 1977 quotas in schedules, as read, agreed to. South Queensland were reduced by some 200,000 hens. Subsequently there was a 9 Bill reported, without amendment. per cent increase in flocks in North and THIRD READING North-western Queensland. The Hen Quota Committee has foreshadowed a further cut in Bill, on motion of Mr. Sullivan, by leave, South Queensland for next season. While read a third time. the necessity for this cut is brought about by improvements in industry efficiency it will represent, in effect, a further significant HEN QUOTAS ACT AMENDMENT BILL redistribution of the State flock to the under­ supply areas. SECOND READING In my introductory speech, I mentioned Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ the provisions that had been made for the Minister for Primary Industries) (9.42 p.m.): Hen Quota Committee to collect statistics I move- on the placement of young laying stock "That the Bill be now read a second throughout the State. Collection of these time." statistics will enable the industry to monitor In the introductory debate it was quite ahead the egg-laying potential of the State's evident that members on both sides of the flock and will enable better notice to be Chamber generally support the provisions of given to the industry of proposed flock this Bill. Honourable members did raise adjustments. In this way both hatchery some matters, however, on which I propose and producer will be able to plan ahead to comment. industry replacement needs. Those hatcher­ ies which can appreciate the long-term The honourable member for Fassifern development of the scheme have already summed up the industry situation particu­ indicated their support for the provision. larly well in the earlier debate. In response to one point raised by him, I would point Questions raised on the matter of the hen out that people who are affected by residen­ levy are not related to this Act. The levy tial and industry encroachment still have the is collected under Commonwealth legislation option of re-establishing their egg operations and is not a matter for debate in relation elsewhere. to the Bill before us. This Government, Hen Quotas Act [31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill 1377 however, is aware of the consequences of in these areas does not want to see happen. such a levy upon growers and as has been I recognise that there are some really big the case in the past, it will continue to put growers in South Queensland. The Minister to Canberra suggestions which are con­ would know them, particularly in Too­ sidered to be in the interests of the growers. woomba and around the Darling Downs. I commend the Bill for further consideration Some of them have very big flocks. to the Committee. I mentioned during the introductory stage Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (9.47 p.m.): Since that in all forms of primary production in the introduction of this Bill I have been Australia, the best production unit is the fortunate enough to have discussions with family farm unit, where the family is making some of the producers I spoke about during a living off the production of the particular the introductory debate, particularly the farm, whether it is a maize farm, a dairy northern producers. Over the week-end I farm, a sugar-cane farm, or, in this partic­ spent a considerable amount of time on the ular case, a poultry farm. If we are going Atherton Tableland. I met all the producers to start squeezing out more of these smaller up there and also had discussions with farmers, make family farm producers unecon­ growers from Townsville, Mackay and omic, or allow the big farmers to move in Central Queensland, and many others, and swallow up their quotas, then I am because I have been, and still am, concerned dead against this Bill. I think that would about various aspects of this Bill. cause a great stir throughout the industry. In the Minister's second-reading speech The Bill itself is very open. I accept that tonight he gave us a little more information the future of the industry will be more on the point about which I am greatly con­ in the hands of the quota committee, for a cerned, and that is that the inter-district start, and then in the hands of the appeal transfer of quotas will be permitted. The committee. The industry is concerned about Minister distinctly stated that this transfer this because it may be dangerous and dam­ will be from the oversupply areas to the aging to sections of the poultry industry in undersupply areas. If there is a direct Central and North Queensland. All seg­ transfer of quotas to producers buying into ments of the industry in Queensland are the trade, this is the very thing that is concerned about the possibility of an increase feared by producers in Northern and Cen­ in fees. I realise the Minister said that this tral Queensland areas because they do not does not come within the Bill, but I con­ want inter-district transfers of quotas on an sider that indirectly it does because it gives individual basis at any price. They are power for the collection of fees. It is by seeking what the industry has been moving agreement with the various States that they towards through the work of the Hen Quota act as the collecting agent for and on behalf Committee, and that is a reduction of flocks of the Commonwealth. in the oversupply areas, as has been done interstate. This is the way it should be Increasing the C.E.M.A.A. levy from $1 done, and the way it was to be done. to $2 may cause a great deal of hardship to certain segments of the industry, partic­ The opportunity was to be given for ularly in the North, where producers are producers, particularly smaller producers, in not getting any return from the C.E.M.A.A. the North and Central Queensland areas levy because of undersupply. They are pay­ who are in an undersupply situation to ing through the nose already to get their expand their flocks to a stage where they special requirements such as grains and could meet demand in their own districts. meals into the area, and the extra $1 per This has been the policy of the industry head will add to their burden. They will throughout Australia since the introduction also be hit, of course, by the increase of 15 of these quotas. Actually, they have been per cent in freight rates that this Govern­ trying to achieve that since long before the ment will shortly introduce. They would introduction of quotas and now it is finally be content to pay the $2 levy if somewhere coming to fruition. We have only to look along the line they could get a return into at an area such as the Atherton Tableland. their own area to support their industry. When the Hen Quotas Act was first intro­ Producers in Central Queensland, if they duced in 1973 the producers in that area have an oversupply can draw back from it, were very much in an undersupply situa­ but the northern producers are disadvantaged tion. But to the benefit of the producers, because they are not members of the board. and also the grain growers in the area, they I believe that they should form their own have been able to expand their flocks to the North Queensland Egg Marketing Board, but stage where they can virtually supply the it has been their decision by a narrow margin, demand in the area. If it were not for the I might add, not to form a board and I think effects of certain interstate traders coming that this has been in some respects to their into their area, they possibly would not have definite and distinct disadvantage. to call on the Queensland Egg Marketing Board in South Queensland except when, Concern has been expressed about the because of very hot weather conditions or a provision relating to the transfer of a quota big wet, their production is affected and eggs from one portion of land to another. I have to be brought from other areas to recognise that it is important to meet the fluctuation in quotas that does have this principle in a Bill such as occur. This is something that the industry this to meet the situation in which 1378 Hen Quotas Act [31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill a quota-holder increases his flocks to small eggs. While that might be satisfactory bring him up to near the non-abatement in South Queensland, where surplus eggs can figure or to maintain a decent standard of be converted into egg pulp and where, living for his family. However, I do not because the area is under the control of a think it was ever intended to allow persons board, the producers can obtain a refund to buy up both quota and land where, for through the C.E.M.A.A. levy, the situation is example, developers move in and somebody quite different in the North. Northern pro­ buys out the quota and the land and resells ducers cannot participate. Special provisions the land to the developer. He would obtain must be made for the producers in that area the advantage of purchasing both the land under this part of the Bill. and the quota. Because of the current economic climate I should like to see the implementation of and another Bill introduced by the Minister a system similar to that applying in the last year known commonly as "the pig swill sugar industry. The transfer of assignments Bill" the number of domestic hens through­ is controlled by the Central Sugar Cane out the State has increased rapidly. Many Prices Board. If land is taken by a people who did not worry about keeping hens developer the value of the assignment is not in their backyards now have their own little taken into account. Developers make con­ flocks, which they feed from scraps that the siderable profits on land sales alone, so the pigman no longer collects. This trend has had quota should be surrendered and put back a noticeable effect on the egg-producing indus­ into the pool for redistribution in an area try in some parts of the State. of undersupply. This would present an I do not know whether anything has been answer to the problem of oversupply. The done to control the problems created by The principle that applies in the sugar industry is Eggman from over the New South Wales a well-recognised one. It has led to orderly border. He is still causing a great deal of marketing over a number of years. I cannot concern in some areas of the State. see any reason why a similar principle could While machinery is being set up under the not be adopted by the Hen Quota Com­ Bill to provide better controls in the industry mittee in relation to the transfer of egg or the department must go a little further by hen quotas. way of regulation to implement the points I While I am on this subject-when a have raised. If that is done we will go a long quota is sold off, when someone is increasing way towards returning to the demand/man­ his hen quota by the purchase of another agement situation in the egg industry which poultry farm, and when we are applying the was sought initially by all States through the Australian Agricultural Council. \Ve must new provisions of transferring the quota from play our part in this area. one block of land to another, we should lay down some guide-lines for the Hen Quota Mr. BERTONI (Mt. Isa) (10.2 p.m.): At Committee so that the parcel of land from the introductory stage, I expressed my con­ which that quota is transferred does not cern about the proposed amendments to the again become available for a hen quota. A Hen Quotas Act. In particular, I expressed similar principle has been used for a long concern about two areas, one being the time by the sugar industry, particularly at over-production in the south-east corner of the time of the change-over to mechanical the State, the other the transferring of hen harvesting. Assignments were transferred quotas from one division to another. from hillside farms to farms on flat land. When looking at the statistics available on Despite the fact that some people paid high quota flocks and population distribution prices for land from which assignments had throughout the State, it is seen that division been transferred, applications by them for 1 has 72 per cent of the population and 81 the restoration of peaks to that land were per cent of the hen holdings. That represents refused by the Sugar Cane Prices Board. an increase of 9 per cent in the south-east We are trying to reduce the number of corner, and the 9 per cent really relates to hens, so it is necessary that the Hen Quota about 169,000 extra hens in the south-east Committee have definite guide-lines. The corner compared with a deficit of 171,000 reference in the Bill to "such terms and con­ hens in the northern and western areas. ditions as are prescribed" probably covers the When we say that it is intended that situation, but naturally regulations will have hen quotas remain within their divisions, to be introduced or, as I say, guide-lines will I point out that this will create many pro­ have to be laid down for the guidance of blems, especially financial ones. I agree with the Hen Quota Committee. the honourable member for Mackay that pro­ ducers in the North and North-west are look­ As to quota fluctuation dates-they will be ing for a basic increase in hen quota before a good thing in the long term for the indus­ the Bill comes into effect. If they get an try. They will mean that producers will have increase in hen quota from oversupplies, which to alter their pullet replacement programme will probably be from the south-east corner, so that they are carrying it out on a better they will have to pay from $8 to $11 a head, basis and so that the pullets are coming on to as I said at the introductory stage. Obviously, laying full-sized eggs at even intervals the purchase of quota from the south-east throughout their programme. Many pro­ corner creates problems. It would be more ducers are causing problems by trying to beneficial to increase the basic quotas in the put on the market at the wrong time too northern areas than to pay for the transfer many second-grade eggs, pullet eggs and of quotas from one area to another. Hen Quotas Act [31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill 1379

The Minister said that he intends to try "To encourage producers to adopt the to maintain quotas within districts. That is new voluntary restraints, down payments a good idea, if it is workable. If quotas are (the money withheld from producer kept in the south-east corner, there will cer­ returns and used to finance egg disposals) tainly be a deficit in the North. Without have been reduced. doubt, quotas will have to be transferred "The scheme puts the cost of surplus from the South to the North. What concerns egg disposal directly on the shoulders of me is this: if a northern producer wishes to poultry farmers contributing to the sur­ relinquish his hen quota, where does that plus. quota go? Will it remain in the northern or "Previously disposal costs were borne western area, or will it eventually be trans­ evenly by all producers as levies on pro­ ferred to a producer in the central district? duction entitlements. Economic spin-offs With the proclamation of the Bill, I from participation in the scheme are more foresee a gradual decline in the number of attractive than a reduction in down pay­ small producers who provide eggs for the ment. Reduced bird numbers means less western district. The increase in hen levy expenditure on feed and replacement birds. from $1 to $2 will be a tremendous bur­ "As feed accounts for 60 per cent of den on the small producers. Eventually they production cost and most overheads are will have to increase their quotas or get fixed, farmers can't improve their profit­ out of the industry. That certainly does ability by producing more eggs." not fit in with the coalition's policy of I would like to hear the Minister's thoughts decentralisation. If we do not watch this on that voluntary scheme. very carefully, within one or two years we will see an exodus of small producers from We are still verv concerned about the intro­ the industry similar to that which took place duction of this Bill. Discussions I have had after the introduction of the pigswill Bill. tonight with departmental officers have Because of the restrictions placed on that enlightened me on a few matters. There is industry, pig farmers receded to the cheaper integrity behind the idea, but I still have the feeling that in the long run the country production areas on the coast. and northern producers will have to get out Another point that has been raised with of the industry, to the benefit of those me is that there are four committee mem­ living in the south-east corner. bers, all producers-two from Division 1, one from Division 2 and one from Division Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ 3. For some reason or other Division 4 Minister for Primary Industries) (10.10 has been left off the committee. I submit p.m.), in reply: I do not think I need do that Division 4 is entitled to a representative. anything other than allay the fears of the After all, the committee is supposed to be honourable members for Mackay and Mt. representative of the whole industry. I have Isa about transfer of quota. Let me stress had numerous letters from people in north­ again this passage from my earlier speech- ern areas about problems facing the industry, "If inter-district transfers do occur, they and one from the North Queensland Poultry will be from oversupply to undersupply Farmers Association, which has also written areas." to the Minister. In a letter of about 19 April, that association said on behalf of The honourable member for Mt. Isa repre­ its members that it would like to sents an undersupply area. have discussions with the Minister about certain information given to them by Mr. Bertoni: At what price? Mr. Sinclair. I should like to hear whether or not the Minister has replied to that Mr. SULLIVAN: That is to be determined letter. Representatives of the association by the Hen Quota Committee. We are not were going to make themselves available to determining that tonight. Have I got through the Minister on their regular visits to Bris­ to the honourable member? bane. As far as I know, they have neither Mr. Bertoni: I can accept the principle, but received word nor had discussions. One of not the price. the members of that association is Mr. Charlie Heck, who I believe is on the Hen Mr. Casey: I do not want to argue about Quota Committee. Those people are con­ price. I simply want to ask if it is the cerned about the introduction of the Bill transfer of quota or the transfer of ownership and the increase in the hen levy. of quota. I am led to believe that producers in Mr. SULLIVAN: Quota is lying dormant Western Australia and Tasmania intend fight­ at present. People are not using it. People ing the additional $1 levy. However, of have gone out of production. The mechanism most interest is the fact that New Zealand, to be used is that that will be surrendered which had a system similar to this, has at a price to the Hen Quota Committee for introduced a voluntary scheme. I read from a circular published in New Zealand redistribution to the small people. It will be last year- similar to what we are doing with market milk to bring the little fellows up. "A voluntary scheme to trim egg pro­ duction to market requirements has been Mr. Casey: You have to reduce flock num­ endorsed by the poultry industry. bers by 6 per cent in South Queensland over the coming year. 1380 Hen Quotas Act, &c., Bill [31 MAY 1978] Racing and Betting, &c., Bill

Mr. SULLIVAN: Yes. take a few, there would hardly be more Mr. Casey: Surely that surplus quota will than, say, 60,000 to 80,000 in the whole be taken up in the 6 per cent. northern area. The point that I make is still valid. When Mr. SULLIVAN: I cannot quite follow the Minister says that transfers of quota will the figures used by the honourable member be from oversupply to undersupply areas, for Mt. Isa. He said that South Queensland that is fair enough if done on an overall has 72 per cent of the population and 81 per district basis. Volhat concerns the industry cent of the egg quota, so there is a deficit in the smaller areas is that it may become of 9 per cent. He is mixing eggs \Vith not simply a transfer of quota but a transfer people. of quota ownership. In other words, pro­ Mr. Bertoni: No. I am relating the hen ducers in North Queensland and Central quota population to the State population, Queensland do not want to see McLean, Hall which gives the figure of 9 per cent more. or a couple of other large producers, who already have hundreds of thousands of birds, Mr. SULLIVAN: For the benefit of the moving into their areas and taking over their honourable member for Mt. Isa I again quotas. Although the situation may look all repeat- right at the initial stage, before we know "In late 1976 and early 1977 quotas in where we are there will be a surrendering South Queensland were reduced by some of quota in that area. Because there is an 200,000 hens. Subsequently there was a undersupply situation, there will be market­ 9 per cent increase in flocks in North and ing through their own channels from one North -western Queensland." board area to another. They will do exactly what they are doing now in the border-hop­ They are the facts, but for some reason the ping situation. Many large producers are honourable member does not seem prepared already buying up additional farms. In recent to accept them. I cannot help it, they are years they haYe bought grain farms on the the facts. I hope that the honourable mem­ Darling Downs and in other areas and event­ ber will convey those facts to the people. ually, if there is a quota ownership transfer I am not suggesting that he is purposely mis­ from district to district, that will sound the leading them. He should give them the facts. death-knell of the hen industry in Northern This is my last Bill this session. I am and Central Queensland. pleased to finish the session with three Bills on subjects I am well and truly acquainted Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ with. I know my own department. Possibly Minister for Primary Industries) (10.17 p.m.): I was a little at sea with the Police Act That is just not intended. Amendment Bill. Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (10.18 p.m.): I Motion (Mr. Sullivan) agreed to. accept the Minister's word and I will make sure that he keeps it.

CoMMITTEE Clause 7, as read, agreed to. (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) Clauses 8 to 11, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Clauses 1 io 6, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. Clause 7-Repeal of and new s. 45; For­ feiture or reduction of quota or entitlement- THIRD READING Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (10.14 p.m.): I have Bill, on motion of Mr. Sullivan, by leave, one matter to raise as a result of the com­ read a third time. ments of the Minister in his reply. He was talking about a reduction in quota in the south-east corner of some 200,000 hens since RACING AND BETTING ACT the introduction of the scheme, representing AMENDMENT BILL some 6 per cent, I think he said. SECOND READING-RESUMPTION OF DEBATE Mr. Sullivan: 9 per cent. Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (10.19 p.m.): I have Mr. CASEY: Representing 9 per cent of just a few words to say on this Bill. I should reduction in that area? No, the Minister like to convey my thanks to the Minister for said there was a 9 per cent increase in his efforts on behalf of the Mackay Trotting northern areas. Club. Legislative provisions following those It must not be forgotten that the 9 per efforts are included in the Bill. It is unfor­ cent increase in northern areas bears no tunate that the Minister found himself in a relationship whatever to the reduction of position where he virtually had to correct 200,000 hens in southern areas. There would the mistakes of others, and I should like to not be 200,000 hens in the whole northern compliment him on the negotiations that he area. There are approximately 22,000 hens carried out and, generally, on the job that he in the Atherton Tableland area and a con­ did. At times I thought that the negotia­ siderable number round the Townsville, tions were perhaps not proceeding as fast as Mackay and Mt. Isa areas but in all, give or they could, but I realise that it was a very Racing and Betting (31 MAY 1978] Act Amendment Bill 1381

big problem and one that had to be con­ and the Minister have misjudged the economic sidered not just from the point of view of climate and that many small punters will not the Mackay Trotting Club and its small seg­ be able to afford to continue betting, thus ment of the industry. losing many hours of enjoyment. There are It was most unfortunate that in the con­ thousands of little old ladies who like to have struction of further facilities at the Mackay a bet, but because of the economic situation Trotting Club we found that there were a they will not be able to afford to bet with this number of problems with design and that increased minimum. I do not believe that in increased costs were incurred, although they the current economic climate the Queensland were not for racing facilities. On top of public is ready for this move. that, the Mackay Trotting Club had to provide Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputy all those other facilities to enable night trot­ Premier and Treasurer) (10.25 p.m.), in reply: ting to be properly conducted in the Mackay I thank the honourable member for Mackay area. Unfortunately, the facilities that did for his comments regarding the Mackay cause the financial problems were those over club. I realise that the problem was a which the trotting club had no real say difficult one and I hope that this amendment because they were involved in an agreement will assist those involved to solve it. and the people who run the racing club in the area had moved ahead with certain pro­ The legislation regarding the minimum bet visions. Those in the trotting club had to go does not really provide a minimum bet at along with the racing club whether they liked all; it provides for a minimum dividend. it or not. There is no compulsion in the legislation for anybody to have other than 50c or a mul­ I thank the Minister for his efforts on our tiple of 50c as the unit. The T.A.B. has behalf. It is hoped that the rescue operation adopted a minimum bet of $1 for win and will be successful. Only time will tell, but place, but people can still invest $1.50 and I feel quite sure that if the club runs into any they can also take 50c doubles and trebles. problems or snags on the way the Minister That is a decision of the T.A.B., and if will be equally helpful to us. any club introduces a similar system, it will Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (10.22 p.m.): be its decision. All this Act is doing is The Opposition objects to the fact that this allowing the dividend to be calculated on the Bill raises the minimum bet on the T.A.B. $1 basis as against the 50c basis. from 50c to $1. We regard this as a penalty Mr. Davis: That is why we oppose it. on the betting public of Queensland. We believe this increase in the minimum bet is Mr. KNOX: Well, I think Opposition associated with losses incurred in various seg­ members are foolish in opposing it because ments of the racing and betting industry. I they fail to understand the benefits that will refer, of course, mainly to the T.A.B., which flow to the punters by having a minimum is now being subsidised by the Government of dividend based on $1. The fractions at the Queensland. Instead of being the goose that moment are transferred to Consolidated laid the golden egg, in recent times it has Revenue and $1,200,000 is being paid into lost millions of dollars. These losses are being Consolidated Revenue in fractions. By transferred to the betting public, but the calculating the minimum bet with the T.A.B. increased minimum bet will probably prevent on a $1 unit rather than a 50c unit, many punters from being able to have a bet. approximately $600,000-it could be $50,000 Punters in Queensland who have been able out-that would normally be paid into Con­ to afford a 50c bet will probably be forced solidated Revenue will flow back to the to stop betting completely when the $1 unit punters. The fractions will be less when the is introduced. money is divided into dollar units instead of 50c units. Calculating the dividend on The fact that the T.A.B. has lost so much a minimum bet of $1 will prove beneficial money must be taken into consideration when to the punter. Whether or not the clubs one considers the reasons for the increase take a minimum bet of 50c or $1 is a matter in the minimum bet. As Queensland punters for their decision. As far as the T.A.B. is are now forced to make $1 bets, one wonders concerned, it has decided of its own volition whether the chairman of the T.A.B., Sir to make the minimum win and place bet Albert Sakzewski, who has controlled its $1 and the 50c units remain for other types operations for so long, has made very many of bets. wise decisions. One must question the wisdom of his decisions when the T.A.B. was able Mr. Mackenroth: Could you direct the to lend money to commercial enterprises such T.A.B. to introduce a 50c minimum? as Custom Credit Corporation Ltd., the hire­ Mr. KNOX: No, I do not. purchase and credit organisation. I believe Sir Albert Sakzewski is the chairman of the Mr. Mackenroth: Could you? investment advisory board. The T.A.B. has loaned money to many other commercial Mr. KNOX: No. enterprises and yet now, according to the Mr. Houston: It asked for your per­ Minister's own statement, it is in imminent mission. danger of collapse. Mr. KNOX: Yes, but that is not unreason­ We believe it is a disaster that the T.A.B. able. should force the small punter in this State into this situation. I believe that the T.A.B. Mr. Houston: What if you had said "No"? 1382 Racing and Betting [31 MAY 1978] Act Amendment Bill

Mr. KNOX: If I had said "No", it favourite. The guaranteed return based on wouldn't have done it. the 55c is quite large. That will be cut out. However, it also helped the small punter. Mr. Houston: Well, why didn't you? I have seen the situation in which a Mr. KNOX: Because I believe that it is person backs a winner yet gets only 50c back. a very reasonable proposition and that the In other words, he is putting his money to benefits will flow to the punters. But there nothing and all he can d

that they would receive so much of the frac­ had a gutful of those fellows over there. In tions that now go into Consolidated Revenue. every Bill that comes up for debate they At the introductory stage I thought the Min­ show themselves as nothing else but a Jot ister said the change was being effected so of whingeing knockers-knock, knock, knock. that the T.A.B. could save 6tc on issuing Don't they ever get sick of knocking? They tickets. Surely the T.A.B.'s operations could knock this, knock that-- not be compared with the old-fashioned sys­ tem of writing out tickets. That went out with The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. button-up shoes. The T.A.B. system has never Miller): Order! I ask the honourable mem­ been properly modernised. Before Groom, the ber to come back to the clause. manager, was pushed out by Sir Gordon Chalk or Sakzewski, he said that the T.A.B. should Mr. HARTWIG: Let us look at the situa­ have ticket-selling machines and that he tion. One minute they are telling us how could have had them installed. As a matter of well the Labor Party runs the State of New fact, the Elizabeth Street agency had ticket­ South Wales; yet here they do not want to selling machines. accept the New South Wales idea of having dollar tote tickets. Mr. Lee: You could not work a slot mach­ ine at a petrol station. Opposition Members interjected. Mr. DA VIS: The Minister would not know. Mr. HARTWIG: They don't want to As a matter of fact in details he provided for accept those ideas. an industrial development paper, the Min­ ister pointed out that at one time he worked We are talking about the racing industry. with a pick and shovel. That was the greatest The A.L.P. were in power for 20-odd years joke since Laurel and Hardy left the action. before this Government took over. Did they bring in a T.A.B.? Did they bring in any The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. method by which off-course punters could Miller): Order! I ask the honourable mem­ operate? They didn't have the intelligence ber to return to the Bill. to do anything like that for the people. Let me say this: if it weren't for the T.A.B., Mr. DA VIS: How can the operations of there would not be racing on Saturdays in the T.A.B. and its agencies be compared with Rockhampton and other places in the the operations of the totalisator on course country. If the fellows in the Opposition whether it be at the coursing, the trots or the gallops? It should not be forgotten that a don't appreciate what the T.A.B. has done bet is still a unit, and, with machines, one for the racing industry in this State, it's unit creates no problems. about time they woke up. The Minister's excuse was the weakest I Mr. D'Arcy: Why do you race them down have ever heard given by a Minister. He said south? an administrative saving of 6tc a ticket would be eflected, but the cost on the course could Mr. HARTWIG: It's about time you woke not be as high as that. I support my deputy up. leader's opposition to this clause because we represent the little people in this State. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. D' ARCY (Woodridge) (10.39 p.m.): As Mr. Lee: They used to get all their money my deputy leader said, the Opposition out of S.P. betting. opposes this legislation. We have pointed out that, economically, the situation is unbeliev­ Mr. HARTWIG: I wouldn't be surprised. able. The Queensland T.A.B. has done verv Mr. Houston interjected. little for the punter in the past decade. It has always refused to effect changes to The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! improve facilities for the punters. I ask the Committee to come to order. I am The Minister mentioned Mr. Groom. In trying to hear the honourable member for 1970 Mr. Groom wanted to increase the Callide, and I intend to hear him. time before a race by which punters had to place their bets. That is not much different Mr. D'Arcy: You race in Sydney, don't from this attempt by the T.A.B. to penalise you, Lindsay? the punter in Queensland. It is a bad business The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! move. It is attempting to stand over Queens­ land punters. We are against this clause. I now warn the honourable member for Woodridge under Standing Order 123A. Mr. HARTWIG (Callide) (10.40 p.m.): I think some of these fellows on the Opposition Mr. HARTWIG: Today racing is a very side would be against the sun rising in the intensive business in this State. People out in east. the western areas enjoy a day at the races. With the price of petrol, they can't get down Mr. Jones: \Vhen did you last have a to the city to Stradbroke meetings and so 50 cent bet? on, like the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. Mr. HARTWIG: I don't think half of I put him on a winner last time he was at them have ever been to the races. I thought Randwick. He ought to be up supporting me the Opposition was supposed to offer con­ in this case, because I can give him a winner structive criticism in Parliament, but I have or two. 1384 Racing and Betting, &c., Bill [31 MAY 1978] Pharmacy Act Amendment Bill

The point I make is that the T.A.B. has THIRD READING provided funds which enable country clubs Bill, on motion of Mr. Knox, by leave, to exist. I can assure honourable members read a third time. that the racing industry is a very large one; it has brought a lot of prosperity to this State. Anyone who does not believe what I say ought to go to the yearling sales and PHARMACY ACT AMENDMENT BILL see the diversity of auction lots. People from SECOND READING all areas of the State buy yearlings, take them home and race them in the central, Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minis­ northern and western areas of the State. ter for Health) (10.52 p.m.): I move­ This has all resulted from the T.A.B. "That the Bill be now read a second The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! time." We are dealing with clause 5. I ask the In my introductory speech, I advised honour­ honourable member to come back to that able members that this Bill was being intro­ clause. duced to clarify the intent of the Act in relation to the ownership of pharmacy prac­ Mr. HARTWIG: I thought I was on tices. It was not the intent of the Govern­ clause 6, to be truthful. ment that a pharmacist who had a pecuniary Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputy interest in more than four pharmacies when Premier and Treasurer) (10.45 p.m.): I have the Act commenced would be required to dis­ pose of his shareholding in a pharmacy if nothing more to say. one of the other shareholders withdrew from Question-That clause 5, as read, stand that practice. This Bill will ensure that such part of the Bill-put; and the Committee pharmacists are not disadvantaged by the divided- actions of others over which they have no AYES, 38 control. Akers Lockwood The requirement that a pharmacist with a Austin Moore pecuniary interest in more than four pharma­ Bertoni Muller Bishop Neal cies at the date of commencement of the Bjelke-Petersen Newbery Act shall not obtain a pecuniary interest in Booth Powell Edwards Row any additional pharmacies is to be clearly Elliott Scassola spelt out. Frawley Scott-Young Glasson Simpson Persons who are not pharmacists but who Goleby Sullivan were shareholders in a pharmacy at the Greenwood Tomkins commencement of the Act will also not be Gunn Turner Hartwig Wharton required to dispose of their shareholding if Katter White one of the other shareholders withdraws from Kaus Kippin that practice. I am pleased that the Bill was Knox supported by the Committee during the intro­ Kyburz Tellers: ductory stage. Lee Ahern Lest er Gygar I commend the Bill to the House. NoEs, 22 Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (10.53 p.m.): Blake Mackenroth The Opposition has no objection to the Bill. Burns Milliner It is, as the Minister pointed out, a machin­ Casey Prest ery measure to correct an oversight by the D'Arcy Scott Davis Shaw Government when the Pharmacy Act was Four as Underwood brought down in 1976. There seem to have Gibbs, R. J. Wilson been many oversights on the Government's Hansen Wright Hooper, K. J. part, even where this Minister is concerned. Houston Tellers: Jones Vaughan I do not think there is anything very Kruger Warburton important in the Bill, and the Opposition has no objection to it. PAIR: Hewitt, N. T. E. Yewdale Mr. BERTONI (Mt. Isa) (10.54 p.m.): It Resolved in the affirmative. is true that it was not envisaged when the original legislation was brought down that if Clause 6-Amendment of s. 69; Unpaid a person left a group organisation the remain­ dividends- ing pharmacists would have to sell their Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Deputy shareholdings, but I have one or two points Premier and Treasurer) (10.50 p.m.): that I should like to put to the Minister. I thank the honourable member for Callide We have legislated to control the extent for his help on this clause. The amendment of the interest that a pharmacist may have simply tidies up the wording of the section. in pharmacies, but at the same time we allow Clause 6, as read, agreed to. people with pecuniary interests in pharmacies in other States to come to Queensland and Clause 7, as read, agreed to. obtain further interests here. We have said Bill reported, without amendment. that no pharmacist should have a pecuniary Pharmacy Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Cremation Act Amendment Bill 1385 interest in more than four pharmacies, but CoMMITTEE larger companies or larger groups of phar­ (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) macies could move in from interstate and buy one or two pharmacies while still owning Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. massive operations in the South. That is Bill reported, without amendment. one point which will have to be examined. When I was a youth working in the Rock­ THIRD READING hampton area, chemists operated part-time Bill, on motion of Dr. Edwards, by leave, pharmacies in different country towns. The read a third time. chemist for whom I worked conducted one such operation at Mt. Larcom. He used to send me there to work for one or two hours CREMATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL whenever the doctor was there. I wonder whether similar operations are still conducted SECOND READING in Queensland, because a chemist would have Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minis­ to register each of them even though he oper­ ter for Health) (11 p.m.): I move- ated them for only one or two hours. I presume that the permission of the Minister or "That the Bill be now read a second the department would be needed. If a chemist time." did that in five or six small towns and each For the information of honourable members operation was regarded as being a separate I will advise of the procedures which are pharmacy, he would be exceeding the limit necessary prior to a body being cremated. laid down. The executor or nearest surviving relative I have approached the Minister about the makes application for a cremation permit in position of a pharmacist in a country area accordance with Form A of the regulations. who hopes to work in a hospital on a part­ The medical practitioner who issued the time basis. When doctors do that, they have death certificate also issues a certificate in the right of private practice. The pharmacist accordance with Form B of the regulations will be paid for the one or two hours he and this certificate is forwarded to a medical spends at the hospital, and we must ensure practitioner who is authorised by the that, by doing that, he does not break the Governor in Council to sign a permission and regulations. certificate to cremate. If that medical prac­ titioner is satisfied that there is no reason I just wanted to put those points before why the body should not be cremated, he the Minister. The Bill is commendable issues a permission and certificate to cremate because it will allow pharmacists to retain in accordance with Form C of the regula­ their shares in after-hour pharmacies, even tions. though there may be some alteration to the composition of the original group of If a medical practitioner is not prepared pharmacists. to issue a death certificate stating the cause of death, then the matter becomes one for Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minister the coroner, who may authorise any medical for Health) (10.57 p.m.), in reply: I thank practitioner to perform a post-mortem exam­ honourable members for their support of the ination of the body. Whether the cause of Bill. The honourable member for Mt. Isa death is determined or not the coroner may raised a couple of queries. The whole basis issue a certificate to cremate. The coroner of the limitation is that one pharmacist can would issue such a certificate on the advice have an interest in only four pharmacies of the medical practitioner who performed unless he had interests in more than four the post-mortem that there was no evidence at the time of the proclamation of the Act. of criminality or that all organs and tissues That seems to have been well accepted by necessary to endeavour to establish the cause the profession. of death had been removed from the body. The honourable member also mentioned the The honourable member for Chatsworth problem of people coming from other States. referred to the possible importation of radio­ They have to be registered in this State before active material. Radioactive material is a they may purchase a pharmacy. The honour­ prohibited import and can only be imported able member may be referring to problems into Australia after obtaining a prohibited associated with one of the larger groups that import release from the Australian Atomic is trying to act as an agent. 'Ne have had Energy Commission or the Australian Radia­ discussions with the company concerned. tion Laboratory. Such releases are granted Although they are not buying into pharmacies, only to those persons who are licensed under they are asking pharmacists to be their agents, the relevant State legislation, which, in the and that matter is being investigated by the case of Queensland, is the Radioactive Sub­ board. stances Act 1958-1970. Similar legislation Mr. Bertoni: What about the Henry exists in all other States. The availability of Francis pharmacies operating throughout the radioactive substances is therefore strictly Myer group? controlled. The purpose of the Bill is a simple one, Dr. EDWARDS: The previous Bill took that is, to eradicate the hazards which may care of that problem. occur if bodies containing cardiac pace­ Motion (Dr. Edwards) agreed to. makers or radioactive implants are cremated. 1386 Cremation Act Amendment Bill [31 MAY 1978] Hospitals Act Amendment Bill

I am sure that honourable members agree Dr. EDWARDS: That would not create that the amendments are necessary. I com­ a problem. It is only with cremation and the mend the Bill to the House. possibility of the pace-maker exploding that the problem arises. That is why the pro­ Mr. MACKENROTH (Chatsworth) (11.2 vision was introduced. p.m.): The Opposition agrees with the Mr. D'Arcy: I also had in mind bodies amendment. However, I wish to raise one in cemeteries, watercourses and so on. point. In his summing up at the introductory stage the Minister said that a report that I Dr. EDWARDS: I do think that is a had referred to was an interim one and that problem. It certainly has not been drawn was why the Government had not acted. I to our attention. have contacted the National Health and As to the question asked by the honourable Medical Research Council in Canberra, who member for Toowoomba North-we know in turn contacted the Radiation Health at all times where radioactive substances go. (Standing) Committee in Melbourne. This If a radioactive substance is lost-if that committee has verified that the Code of is possible-every action is taken by my Practice for the Safe Handling of Corpses department and those people responsible for Containing Radioactive Substances (1966) is the substance to make certain that the the current applicable report and not an company that has lost it for the time being interim one, nor is any other report under is held accountable until it is found. If investigation for future use. The Minister it is not found, action will be taken to com­ added in his summing up at the introductory pletely seal off the area concerned so that stage that he did not wish to be unkind to no danger from radioactivity occurs. me. I do not wish to be unkind to him, Motion (Dr. Edwards) agreed to. either. Just a simple apology would do. CoMMITTEE Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (11.3 p.m.): As my colleague just said, we agree with the (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) Bill. I thank the Minister for explaining the Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. situation regarding the application for a Bill reported, without amendment. permit to bury a body. The Minister in his introductory speech referred to radioactive THIRD READING substances and pace-makers in bodies that are cremated. He did not mention such Bill, on motion of Dr. Edwards, by leave, items in bodies that are simply buried. What read a third time. is the position regarding those bodies?

Dr. LOCKWOOD (Toowoomba North) HOSPITALS ACT AMENDMENT BILL (11.4 p.m.): I support the Minister in this Bill. There are one or two matters I SECOND READING thought the Minister might like to comment on. Although there is a requirement to Hon. L. R. EDW ARDS (Ipswich-Minister declare whether there are or are not radio­ for Health) (11.9 p.m.): I move- active substances or pace-makers and bat­ "That the Bill be now read a second teries in a body, has the Minister made pro­ time." vision somewhere else in the practice of Nov.; that honourable members have had medicine to recover these things after death the opportunity to study this Bill, I am sure if they are included in the body? I should they will agree with my statement at the like the Minister to comment on that if he introductory stage that I do not believe there could. Did he hear me? is anything of a contentious nature in it. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Is the honour­ In closing the debate at the introductory able member talking to the Bill or is he stage I indicated that I would answer queries asking a question? rai~ed by honourable members, and this I shall now do. Dr. LOCKWOOD: I am speaking to the The honourable member for W oodridge Bill, Mr. Speaker. I think the Minister will raised the matter of the administrator, whom be pleased to inform the House on this it is proposed to appoint, being responsible aspect. He might tell us how these items will to a statutory board that does not exist. be recovered, by what order and who will This is not the case. The administrator recover them. will be a corporation sole and an entity in his own right. Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Min­ The administrator shall have the same ister for Health) (11.6 p.m.), in reply: I duties, authorities and powers as a hospitals thank honourable members for their contri­ board and will be subject to the same require­ bution to the debate. I did not quite catch ments as a hospital board. the comment made by the honourable mem­ ber for Woodridge. I think he referred to The honourable member also asked when pace-makers in bodies that are buried and will a board be appointed and under \Vhat not cremated. conditions. In my introductory speech I stated that nearing completion of the hospital it is Mr. D'Arcy: Yes. proposed that the position of administrator Hospitals Act [31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill 1387 will be dissolved and a board appointed. The intention of changing its present policy of members of the board will be appointed in continuing to provide hospital care in rural accordance with the provisions of the Act. areas. The honourable member expressed the The honourable member for Bundaberg opinion that the provisions in the Bill in referred to deficiencies at the Bundaberg Hos­ relation to the retirement of employees on pital. As the honourable member pointed the grounds of ill health could resuh in the out, I will be visiting Bundaberg next month. victimisation of those employees who do not I can assure him that I will be looking at support the Government. This, of course, these matters when I am there. is absolute nonsense. The honourable member for Peak Downs The Bill provides that a board may require also raised the provision of additional hospital an employee to undergo a medical examina­ facilities in his electorate. In relation to tion to determine his fitness to continue his Capella, the honourable member wiil be employment. If, on receipt of the report of aware that a health officer of my department the medical practitioner, a board considers will be visiting in the near future to prepare that an employee is incapable of continuing in a report on the future development of the its employ, then it must first obtain the area, existing medical facilities and additional approval of the Minister for Health before medical facilities, if any, required in the area. calling upon the employee to retire. I can assure the honourable member that I I reject completely the aspersions which the will keep him informed following receipt and honourable member for Woodridge is attempt­ consideration of the report. ing to cast on the members of hospitals The honourable member for Peak Downs boards in this State and in any case I will be aware that sketch plans for a hospital again draw his attention to the fact that the at Dysart are currently under consideration final decision rests with the Minister for by my department. I can assure honourable Health. members that the need for additional hospital I take exception to the statement by the facilities throughout the State are under con­ honourable member for Cook that the Gov­ stant surveillance. ernment is not concerned about Aboriginal The honourable member for Sandgate refer­ health matters. While this has nothing to do red to the provision in the Bill which provides with the Bill which is being debated, I wish that the Governor in Council may dismiss a to strongly state that this Government has a member of a hospitals board on the grounds very real concern for the health of Aboriginal of his incompetency or unfitness to continue people. The Aboriginal health programme to hold office and in particular its relation to has achieved a great deal and has contributed local authority representatives on hospitals most significantly to the betterment of their boards. The section will apply to all members health care throughout Queensland. of hospitals boards. There must be procedure The honourable member also referred to to dismiss a board member if he is incompet­ the need for a medical centre at Laura. I ent or unfit to continue to discharge this most have approved already, as I indicated to him important public position. earlier this evening that a caravan, suitably I consider that the Bill was clearly modified, will be sent to Laura to serve as a explained in my introductory speech. Hon­ medical clinic and for the employment of a ourable members opposite appear to have part-time registered nurse. I ,am informed interpreted the proposed amendments as hav­ that this is being undertaken at the present ing sinister overtones. Let me again state time. that there is in my opinion nothing con­ I can assure the honourable member for tentious in the Bill and that many of the Mt. Isa that I am conscious of the need for amendments are of a machinery nature only. increased service areas at the Mt. Isa Hospital I would also thank those honourable mem­ and that approval to proceed will be given bers who spoke in support of the service when satisfactory plans have been prepared given by Dr. Patrick who is retiring from the and forwarded to my department. I thank the position of Director-General of Health and honourable member for Mt. Isa for his sup­ Medical Services. I am sure all honourable port of the Bill. members will concur with the praise given and The honourable member for Kurilpa raised join with me in wishing Dr. Patrick a well­ the matter of facilities being available at hos­ earned, happy and healthy retirement. pitals to enable persons to be near their rela­ I again express regret for not being present tives who are hospitalised. I would point for the early discussions on the Bill but I out that the Red Cross has ,taken a particular had commitments that I could not break. interest in this area and a number of hos­ I thank honourable members for their pitals have rest room facilities which can be patience at my being unable to respond to utilised by relatives. Subsidies of up to 50 their comments. I hope my comments at this per cent of the costs of providing buildings stage will assist them in understanding the for this purpose can be made available by Bill. hospitals boards. I commend the Bill to the House. The honourable members for Caboolture, Pine Rivers and Port Curtis have spoken on Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (11.15 p.m.): the value of small district hospitals. I can We are gratified at the Minister's assurances assure them that the Government has no that the Government of Queensland is in 1388 Hospitals Act [31 MAY 1978} Amendment Bill no way interested in victimising its The Government has been manipuating hos­ employees. However, that has not been so in pitals boards in this State for long enough. the past. He says that while he is Minister The Minister came into this job after Sir for Health these things might not occur. Douglas Tooth and virtually promised to do However, on the past performances of this something about the partiality of hospitals Government, we are not sure of that. boards, but he has done very little about them. On the whole, the Bill is largely not con­ tentious from the point of view of Oppos­ Dr. Edwards: You wouldn't know, of ition members. However, sections of it do course, because you haven't seen too many worry us. We are a little concerned about of the hospital boards. the Mt. Gravatt Hospital. I know that it is well under way and that provision for Mr. D'ARCY: I have spoken to quite a finance must be made in this wav. How­ few members of the hospital boards-many ever, completion dates have been "altered a more than the Minister thinks. number of times. We would be interested Dr. Edwards: The honourable member's to know from the Minister what the proposed point about the local authorities is com­ completion date is. We would also like to pletely wrong. If a person is found to be know when the administrator is to be appoin­ completely dishonest or corrupt, he is say­ ted and who it is likely to be. What stage ing that, because he is a local authority will construction have reached before the member, he can stay and we don't do any­ hospital board is elected or appointed by thing about it. this Government? Mr. D'ARCY: I don't see "corrupt" in I make it very clear that in the Committee the list. stage we will be speaking to the provisions covering local government nominees. We Dr. Edwards: You haven't read the whole do not place much credence on the assur­ Act. ances of this Government. It has not been a very honest Government towards its Mr. D'ARCY: It is not in the Bill. It employees-and in this case it is the employ­ doesn't make any difference. The point is ees whom we are interested in protecting. that surely a local authority under its own The Government is very quick to dismiss terms of election would be in a position to people. We saw a pretty blatant example do something about a member. Obviously of that with the Gold Coast City Council, it would do that. which was summarily dismissed, although During this session tremendous attacks members of that council have served in this have been made on local authorities in Parliament. What does the Government Queensland and this Bill is just another one. expect persons to do to establish their Local authorites in Queensland are the credibility? closest form of government to the people. Their elected representatives on hospital The basis of the National Party in this boards should be sacked by them if tJ-].ey are Parliament would seem to be local govern­ to be sacked. The honourable member for ment. Quite a few National Party members Sandgate does not have to be ratified as a belonged to local government in this State; member of a hospital board because he was yet under this Bill local government is again an alderman in Brisbane. What has hap­ under attack by the Government. The pened and is happening in this State is that Minister says that the Government is not Executive Government has gone mad. It is prepared to accept any proposition. Under taking over the total scene. The Govern­ this Bill the Executive Council, or the Government, can appoint members to hos­ ment wants to sack hospital boards, just as pital boards; but, as has been stated, under it sacks councils, sacks doctors, teachers and the Hospitals Act people can be appointed everybody else about the place. from local authorities-elected bodies. The Mr. Casey: Not long ago he sacked him­ Minister is saying that the Government can self. sack those people as well. We in the Opposi­ tion say that it is fair enough for the Mr. D'ARCY: Yes. He disqualified him­ Government- self from sitting in this Parliament. In many ways it is a shame that the Parliament saw Dr. Edwards: The power has been there fit to accept him back. all the time. They are responsible mem­ bers of the board and are appointed on the Dr. Edwards: I was not sacked by the conditions applicable to any other person. electorate as you were. Mr. D'ARCY: We will see about that at Mr. D'ARCY: Of course, but they are the next election. The Minister went close elected to an outside body, from which they to being defeated last time and he will go go to the hospital board. The Minister is saying that he can sack those elected rep­ closer next time. resentatives from the board. The Govern­ I was speaking about Executive Govern­ ment is attacking local government at every ment and what it can do. Local Govern­ level. As it is, the Minister appoints the ment is under attack by this Government. majority of members on a hospital board. No The situation in Queensland is pretty drastic. doubt he has looked at sacking them or The total local government scene is being controlling the numbers on hospital boards. wiped out by this Government. This is only Hospitals Act [31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill 1389 one small part of the Government's desire retire at 70. It is a considerable anomaly to take over the total scene. I am ashamed that part-time officers have to retire five of the Government for attacking the base of years earlier than those employed full time. local government to this extent. If the I should like the Minister to look into that Government elects a person or appoints a anomaly. person, it is fair enough that it should have There is another matter that should have the right to sack him, but when a person been discussed and which will have to be is elected by the people of Queensland, as faced up to sooner or later by all hospitals the members of local authorities are, and he not only in Queensland but throughout is then elected by the full council as a Australia. I refer to medical and surgical member of a hospital board, surely he has audits. It is becoming increasingly neces­ the right to serve on the hospital board and sary to have some sort of supervision on the be responsible to the local authority and to medical side. This is a deep and complex the people who elected the local authority. problem in which I think that Queensland This is what the Minister and the Govern­ should take the lead by putting medical and ment are attempting to attack under this surgical audits on a firm footing. Bill. I shall have more to say at the Committee Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Townsville) (11.23 stage. p.m.): I do not intend to say very much on the Bill itself; I shall speak more to the Mr. WARBURTON (Sandgate) (11.27 clauses. I must refute the statements of p.m.): I agree with the honourable member the previous speaker. He spoke about the for Woodridge that what we are hearing this bad treatment or victimisation of employees evening is a continuation of what appear of the Queensland hospital system. I spent to be unprecedented attacks on local author­ 18 years as an employee of that system and ities that have been a feature of this session. at no time did I see anyone victimised, badly I know the Minister will disagree but I hope treated or ill treated. I saw no-one who to be able to convince him that not until did not have a right of appeal. A right of today, 40-odd years after the Act was appeal is written into the Act. brought down in 1936, has the Government seen fit to extend the disqualification pro­ The general procedure is that the head of visions to cover not only those appointed but a department can suspend or report a person. those elected by component local authorities. He is then dealt with by the board. A medical officer has not only the board to Dr. Scott-Young: They were only elected appeal to; he also has a right of appeal to to the local authority; they were not elected the director-general and to the Minister. to the board. That is a very broad spectrum which negates the possibility of ill-treatment or victimisa­ Mr. WARBURTON: That goes to show tion of an employee. I cannot agree at all how little Government members know about with the statement of the previous speaker the provisions of the Act. The honourable that Queensland hospital employees are member for Townsville is incorrect. victimised and ill treated. Generally, they are the best paid of all hospital employees Dr. Scott-Young: They are not elected to in Australia. Recently they have been given the board. They are selected by the local long service leave and generous sick leave. authority. I do not see how the honourable member can possibly substantiate his statement. Mr. WARBURTON: They are elected by the component council. They are council Members of a hospital board who are representatives and, by virtue of that elec­ elected or appointed by local authorities still tion, they become members of the board. have to be approved by the director-general and the Minister. They are not given any There are two ways in which people rights not enjoyed by other members simply become board members and they are clearly because they are elected people. They are outlined in the Act. The chairman and all still subject to the directorship of the chair­ members of each board, except the repre­ man and of the Minister. If they are not sentative of the component local authorities, fit persons-if they are ill mentally or shall be appointed by the Governor in physically-they should be removed. If Council. Secondly, the representative of the they are incompetent, they should be component local authorities on any board removed. The position is one of trust and shall be elected by such component local carries great responsibility. The members authorities as a whole. For the benefit of appointed by local authorities should be any members who have any doubts about under the same rigid supervision as other the position, I have referred there to the board members. Act itself. I am a little disturbed by the references The provisions dealing with the disqualifi­ in the Bill to the retirement of certain people cation of members of the board have applied in the hospital service. I ask the Minister since 1936, when the Act was brought down. to look into this matter because it seems to They remained intact until 1964, when there contain some anomalies. Part-time medical were some amendments. It would be reason­ staff have to retire at 60 years of age; able to suggest that in 1964, when the departmental medical officers retire at 65; amendments were made, the disqualification and medical board members are supposed to provisions were upgraded or modernised. 1390 Hospitals Act [31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill

Dr. Edwards: They applied to local auth­ Mr. WARBURTON: I am pleased that the orities. Minister does not regard me as being incap­ able, incompetent or unfit. When I come to Mr. WARBURTON: Of course. I shall the extensions that the Minister wishes to read them out to indicate exactly what they foist upon the representatives of hospitals were. boards, perhaps he might care to explain to Let us look first at the original Act of me exactly what he means by those words. 1936. It read- As I indicated, I am obliged to disagree with the wording of the additional provisions. I "No person"- will not refer to the clause in detail, but the these people would be the persons who come Bill provides for the Governor in Council to under these provisions- remove both an appointee or an elected rep­ "who- resentative from a local authority if he or "(i) Is concerned or participates in the she is, in the opinion of the Governor in profit of any contract with the Board; Council, incapable, incompetent or unfit. Of or"- course the operative word there is "incap­ Dr. Edwards: We fixed that part. able". I added the word "she" because we do have female local authority representatives. 1\lr. WARBURTON: That's right. The sec­ What is the Minister's interpretation of those tion continues- words? When does an elected representative "(ii) Is an employee of any Board; or of local government become incapable, incom­ "(iii) Has his affairs under liquidation petent or unfit? by arrangement with his creditors, or is Dr. Edwards: I indicated that quite clearly an uncertified or undischarged bankrupt; in my speech. or "(iv) Is undergoing a sentence of im­ Mr. WARBURTON: What the Minister prisonment, whether or not the execution has to face up to is the fact that the elected of such sentence has been suspended representative of the local authority cannot under section six hundred and fifty-six of continue to be a member of the board whilst 'The Criminal Code'; or he or she remains an elected representative of the local authority, and that being the case, "(v) Is an insane person within the what the Minister is saying is that he or the meaning of the laws in force for the time Governor in Council can, if they see fit, being relating to insanity,". remove that person from the board because We have no argument with that, and there he or she is, in the Minister's opinion or in was no argument with it from 1936 until the opinion of the Government, incapable, 1964. unfit or incompetent. Yet the electors, the Dr. Edwanls: You have no argument to its people who put that alderman or councillor applying to the local government representa­ there or the alderman who in turn elected that tive, either? person to be a representative on the board, are not to make that assessment of the per­ Mr. WARBURTON: That is true. It son. This is the whole point that the honour­ applied to local government elected repre­ able member for Woodridge raised. The Min­ sentatives and it applied to the appointed ister through his Government is pursuing board representatives. It is the extension of this objective of Executive government. Here those provisions that we are objecting to we have people elected through the proper and I will come to that in a moment. processes, and I can use myself as an example; The Bill sets out the reasons for which all I was elected by the 21 aldermen of the board members, including the representatives Brisbane City Council to be-- of the component local authorities, can be Mr. Lee: And you are still one of them, ousted from office. It provides that the too, aren't you? disqualification provisions are to be expanded, and I shall also refer to this in a moment. Mr. WARBURTON: Of course I am, and If the Minister is content to allow this to I am very proud to be a member of the occur, perhaps he might tell us why the Australian Labor Party Brisbane City Coun­ disqualification provisions are being expanded cil, which has proven itself to be the most after all this time. Why all of a sudden outstanding council in the history of after 42 years has the Government seen fit Australia. to take this step? Mr. D'Arcy: Mr. Warburton, would you Mr. D' Arcy: Do you think they might sav that it would be difficult for the member have somebody in mind? for Ipswich to be on the Ipswich Hospitals Board and accept contracts on their behalf? Mr. WARBURTON: At this stage I would not like to cast aspersions on the Minister Mr. WARBURTON: Of course it would or the Government, but one might be led be. to believe that this is a distinct possibility, I have misgivings about the Governor in bearing in mind what I said earlier-that local Council being responsible for appointments authorities have certainly come under quite in any form and also being able to appoint a lot of attack in this session. As one who is the majority of the board, but on the other a representative not only of local government hand I must say in all fairness that in my but also of a hospitals board-- experience I have had no reason to suggest Dr. Edwards: It won't worry you, of course. that, with regard to the board of which I Hospitals Act [31 MAY 1978) Amendment Bill 1391 happen to be a member, the appointments has supported them. The honourable mem­ have been incorrect; but if the Government ber for Sandgate indicated quite clearly this .desires to have additional powers to ease evening, in answer to an interjection by .appointees of the Governor in Council out me, that he supports them . of their positions, I suppose one might say that that is their prerogative. After all, they The Government is extending this provi­ have appointed them and perhaps they think sion at the request of many people through­ they should have the power to sack them. out Queensland. The honourable member However, this should not happen in the for Sandgate might be interested to know that case of the elected representative of local on one or two occasions requests have come government. That should be looked at very from local authorities and their representa­ carefully. There is no reason why these tives. They have had on hospitals boards extensions should apply to the elected repre­ representatives who have become incapable sentative of local government in this State. during their term of office as both council­ As I indicated initially, it appears to be a lor and board member. At present, there is tremendous misuse of oower. In all innocence no way in which such a person can be asked the Minister may suggest, "This is what to stand down from office. happens in other Acts. We are simply The Government's position is quite clear. extending these provisions which allow us Once a person becomes a member of a hos­ to remove an elected representative if we pitals board, he has the same responsibility think he is incapable, incompetent or unfit." as any other member of the board. He is The Minister might think that these are just not looked upon as a special member of the ordinary provisions and the Government board. All conditions of appointment and would not dare misuse its power. We see it service apply to him. The Government draws as an extension of Executive power. no distinction between him and other board We suggest very strongly to the Minister members. It does not believe that there that he accept the proposition that we are should be a special club for local authority putting to him, that if he wishes to have members. extensions of the disqualification provisions The honourable member for Sandgate applied to those people that the Governor in obviously does not understand the history of Council appoints, that is reasonable enough, appointment of local authority representatives but they should not apply to the elected to hospitals boards. It is quite clear, in fact, representatives. that very few honourable members under­ I believe that I have clarified the position stand the reason for their appointment to affecting board membership for the benefit the boards. It is, of course, that in the early of honourable members opposite who could days the local authorities contributed to the not understand it. It is a very important upkeep of the hospitals. Over the 20 years principle that is at stake and I would urge that this Government has been in office it the Minister to take note of what I have has continued to observe that principle. Tre­ said here this evening. mendous pressure has been brought to bear on the Government from many quarters to Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minister discontinue the practice. However, the Gov­ for Health) (11.40 p.m.), in reply: I thank ernment believes that it should continue. We honourable members for their comments on believe that when a local authority repre­ the Bill. The honourable member for Wood­ sentative is appointed to a hospitals board, he ridge inquired as to the completion date of should be treated in the same way as all the Mt Gravatt Hospital. I am informed that other board members are treated. the contract is proceeding on schedule and will be completed approximately two years I thank the honourable member for Towns­ from now. That is an outstanding effort. ville for his correct comments. I pay The board will be appointed by the Govern­ tribute to him. For many years he was ment when it thinks that the board can make recognised as one of the most outstanding a contribution to the development of pro­ medical superintendents in the hospital ser­ grammes and the commissioning of the hos­ vice. As medical superintendent, he made pital. a wonderful contribution to the Townsville Hospitals Board for more than 17 years. The honourable member ignored com­ pletely, as did the honourable member for Mr. l'.1oore: You should have bought him Sandgate, the fact that this Act has applied a drink instead. to local authority members just as it has to all other board members in the past. If Dr. EDWARDS: I will do that aftenvards. a local government member of a board The honourable member for Townsville becomes bankrupt, there is no special pro­ is recognised throughout the whole of North vision enabling him to stay on the board. Queensland as a very competent and capable If he becomes bankrupt, he has to leave surgeon. In fact, he is respected throughout the board. the whole of Australia. His administration There are other provisions applying to local of the hospital left nothing to be desired. authority representatives, provisions with His comments regarding the right of appeal which the honourable member for Sandgate for staff are absolutely correct. Of course, fully agrees. On no occasion has the Labor they were not understood by members of the Party opposed those provisions; in fact, it Opposition. 1392 Hospitals Act [31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill

The honourable member raised the question Dr. Scott-Young: For a specified hospital? of retirement at 60 years of age. In negotia­ !ions a couple of years ago with visiting staff, . Dr. EDWARDS: Yes. We will have power, It was suggested that, by agreement, the If we need it, to prescribe other positions in age of retirement should be 60. It was due course. to be on the condition that they had per­ manent appointments rather than the old Clause 4, as read, agreed to. three-year appointments. As the honourable member indicated, full-time staff retire at Clause 5-Amendment of s. 5A; Establish­ 65 years of age and board members at 70 ment of medical specialties at base hospi­ years of age. I would be quite happy to tals- consider any submissions that the honourable member puts to me along those lines. Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Townsville) (11.48 p.m.): This clause removes the word "base". He also mentioned medical and surgical I point out that this word has been used ever audits. I fully support his comments and since the coastline was settled and so-called assure him that these matters are being civilisation branched out from it, with the c~:msidered by my department at the present main hospital being at the base. We lose a time. little bit of history when we remove this I regret that members of the Opposition word from our hospital terminology. have not understood or looked at the whole spirit of the Bill in relation to local oovern­ It is rather interesting to note how special­ ment appointments. They seem to thi~k that ties were set up in Queensland. They the local government representative has to be were all established at the base hospitals, treated in a special way. He is a member and feeding back to them, usually by the of the hospitals board and, like other mem­ railwaylines and roadways, were the various bers, he is a member of the team. The district hospitals. Eventually we got a very Government makes no apology for its stand good specialist service throughout Queens­ on the matter. land. Motion (Dr. Edwards) agreed to. The Townsville Hospitals Board area encompassed Ingham, Home Hill, Ayr and COMMITTEE Charters Towers. I think it was called the (Mr. Miller, Ithaca, in the chair) Edgeware group of hospitals in those days. It enjoyed a very good specialty set-up, with Clauses 1 to 3, both inclusive, as read, general surgery, and general medicine. In agreed to. later years we had specialists at Ingham, Ayr Clause 4-Amendment of s.5; Certain and Charters Towers. applications to be submitted to Director­ General- For many years the College of Surgeons has had a disregard for the so-called "travel­ Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Townsville) (11.46 ling knife". It maintained that the specialist p.m.): Paragraph (c) of clause 4 reads surgeons and specialist physicians should live "Such other position as is prescribed." i in the city or town in which they practised presume this is designed to cover some of medicine, rather than practise medicine and the paramedical personnel associated with move on like the Arabs in the dark, leaving hospital work these days. The medical behind them complications or problems for office~, medical superintendent and nursing the local medical practitioner. The depart­ supermtendent are essential appointments in ment should look closely at this problem. Queensland. Luckily they provide a built-in Complications can occur overnight in a safeguard that the honourable member for district hospital. If the surgeon who per­ Woodridge overlooked completely. They give formed the operation is not present, con­ protection to the staff and prevent the board siderable difficulties can be experienced from riding roughshod over the medical staff before aid can be obtained for the patient. and the nursing superintendent-or the Further, when specialties are being set up, ma.tr~n, as she was called when I was a boy. a population survey should be done regu­ This IS an excellent safeguard. The applica­ tion not only has to be perused carefully by larly of all base hospitals so that specialist the board, but also it goes back to the groupings can be increased. Probably Towns­ director-general, who, on recommendation, ville will need more specialists than most can appoint. This provision prevents unquali­ base hospitals because of its rapidly expand­ fied people like Dr. Brych from coming to ing population. I noticed the other day that Queensland and accepting hospital positions. the Minister said he has a neuro-surgeon ready to come to Townsville. I congratu­ Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich­ late the Department of Health for obtaining Minister for Health) (11.47 p.m.): The one. It is a much-needed specialty in Towns­ positions which will be prescribed will only be those such as executive director of nurs­ ville. ing services and medical services, North Brisbane Hospitals Board. They have not Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minister been covered by the Act. This provision will for Health) (11.51 p.m.): I deeply appreciate allow us to prescribe these newer positions the points raised by the honourable member. at the hospitals. In this clause we are not actually removing Hospitals Act (31 MAY 1978] Amendment Bill 1393

the concept of base hospitals. We are remov­ That, of course, means the Governor in ing the word "base" from that clause so that Council. specialties can be set up at other than base hospitals. Presently the Act reads- Mr. WARBURTON (Sandgate) (11.55 "The Board controlling any base hospital p.m.): I take some objection to having my shall, as and when directed by the comments twisted by the Minister to suit his Governor in Council so to do, establish own intentions. I think honourable members at such base hospital any medical specialty". noted that when I was seeking answers from him about paragraphs to be added-and in What we are doing is removing the word particular the words I mentioned, "incap­ "base" so that at any other hospital a able", "incompetent", and "unfit"-he chose specialty can be established, and I am sure not to answer. Perhaps on this occasion he the honourable member would support that. might answer the questions I intend to put to him. Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Townsville) (11.52 p.m.): Does that mean that specialties will be I want to make it clear that what I did set up at Ingham, Ayr, Charters Towers­ say was that the existing provisions in the anywhere the department sees fit? disqualification clause are quite simple. I agreed with the Minister that they applied Dr. Edwards: Yes. to both the elected representative of local government and the other representatives. I Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: Are you going to was interested to hear the Minister say that make a stipulation that the surgeon has to the Government was giving consideration to live in or in close proximity to the town? not having local government representatives Dr. Edwards: It would be one of the con­ at all in future. ditions that the director-general would put upon an area. Approval would have to be Dr. Edwards: That was one of the pro­ given by Executive Council. posals. Clause 5, as read, agreed to. Mr. WARBURTON: I am interested to Clause 6 to 8, both inclusive, as read, hear that that was one of the proposals that agreed to. he was considering. Clause 9-Amendment of s. 13; Constitu­ Dr. Edwards: No, I did not say that. I tion of Boards-- said it was one of the proposals. Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (11.53 p.m.): Mr. WARBURTON: I accept that. We have already listed our objections to this clause, which appears to have been The existing provisions are quite simple. introduced almost for the benefit of the They are of a type that one would expect honourable member for Townsville. The to see and that one would expect to apply way he has carried on, it appears to be a to both parties. A member can be disqualified set-up. There must be clandestine reasons if he is absent from three or more consecutive behind this. It is another attack on local ordinary meetings. Nobody has any objection government in this State. to that applying to both parties. He can be disqualified if he is ousted from office by The Minister said two things that are rele­ the Supreme Court-that is to be expected­ vant. He said that these people from local or attains the age of 70 years. That also is government must comply with certain criteria. to be expected. It probably should be Of course they must. However, he mentioned earlier. It is a pity that the Minister did bankruptcy and a couple of other provisions not alter that to 65 years of age. in the disqualification clause. Local govern­ Now let us look at what is proposed, and ment members are already affected by such this would apply to all parties. He can be provisions. They apply to anyone offering removed if he is incapable in the opinion himself for election. If those provisions of the Governor in Council of discharging apply, they must resign from their positions. the duties of his office. The Governor in Consequently, they would no longer be local Council is now being introduced into this authority members. legislation. He can be removed if the There appears to be no right of appeal Governor in Council considers he is incom­ at all. After so many years, I am disgusted petent or unfit to hold office. I am not at the Government rushing through a pro­ satisfied that the Minister at this stage has vision like this. Quite a few Government given the Committee any indication of the members are members of local authorities. reason why those provisions should be added. On the one hand they are out socialising Why have they been added? As I said, there with them; on the other, they come into has been no noticeable change in the intent this Chamber and use Executive powers since 1936 and now, suddenly, the Govern­ against them. Again, it appears that we in ment is seeing fit to add these rather far­ the Opposition are the ones who are the reaching provisions to give this power to the champions of local government. Therefore, Governor in Council. I move the following amendment- What criteria will the Governor in Council "On page 5, line 46, after the word use in applying those very wide-ranging 'Board' insert the words- words? How will the Minister determine if 'who was appointed by him'." a person is incapable? How will he determine 1394 Hospitals Act [31 MAY & 1 JuNE 1978] Amendment Bill if an elected local government representative NOES, 41 is incapable of carrying out his or her duties Akers Lee as a board member? How will he determine Austin Lest er Bertoni Lockwood if an elected local government representative Bishop Moo re is incompetent or unfit? What the honourable Bielke-Petersen Muller member for Woodridge said has some reality. Booth Neal Bourke Newbery While the Minister might suggest differently, Edwards Powell we are suggesting that, if the amendment is Elliott Row defeated, we will see a further attack on Frawley Scassola Glasson Scott-Young local government in this State. Goleby Simpson Greenwood Su!livan Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich­ Gunn Tomkins Hartwig Turner Minister for Health) (11.57 p.m.): I am Hewitt, W. D. Wharton absolutely amazed at the ignorance of the Hinze White Katter two honourable members who have just Kaus spoken. Kippin Tellers: Knox Ahern Opposition Members interjected. Kyburz Gygar PAIR: Dr. EDWARDS: The way the honourable member for Woodridge is behaving, one Yewdale Hewitt, N. T. E. would wonder if a medical officer should Resolved in the negative. decide whether he is capable of discharging his duties. These are not our decisions. As Clause 9, as read, agreed to. the honourable member for Sandgate well Clauses 10 to 16, both inclusive, as read, knows, these are decisions made by medical agreed to. practitioners and the determination will be based on those decisions. [Thursday, 1 June 1978] Opposition Members interjected. Clause 17-New s. 45A; Retirement of incapable employee- Dr. EDWARDS: Obviously Opposition members are not prepared to listen. Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Townsville) (12.6 a.m.): This is a very important clause, because Mr. Casey interjected. I have seen cases of a person in the employ of a hospital who is obviously ill, but the Dr. EDWARDS: I am sure that the ethics of the medical profession are such honourable member for Mackay is interested. that a doctor cannot approach him and push his knowledge of medicine on to him, One would almost think that the Govern­ especially when there is an employer I ment intended to remove all local authority employee relationship or a medical super­ representatives. This is absolute rubbish. If intendent/staff relationship. This clause will a person is found to be incompetent and clarify the issue considerably. incapable and unable to carry out his job As I understand this clause, any member of or is unfit to hold office, the matter will be the executive or administrative staff can taken to the Governor in Council. That does now direct that an employee be examined not mean that we will replace that person by a medical superintendent or other medical with one of our cronies. He will be replaced practitioner. This removes a cause of worry by another local government representative for some nursing and staff superintendents who would continue to function in the place in that people who are seen to be physically or mentally sick could be handling the sick of his predecessor. I cannot make it any or be responsible for drugs. It also helps clearer. The Government rejects the amend­ the sick person in that he can now retire ment. and claim superannuation benefits because staff in the Queensland health service now Question-That the words proposed to be have superannuation rights. The fear of ill­ inserted in clause 9 (Mr. D'Arcy's amend­ ness has now, to a great extent, been removed. ment) be so inserted-put; and the Com­ This clause will remove much of the worry of mittee divided- nursing superintendents who knew that a staff member was sick but could not actually AYES, 22 do anything about it until that person came Blake Milliner to see them. I consider this to be a very Burns Prest wise move. Casey Scott D'Arcy Shaw Davis Underwood Hon. L. R. EDWARDS (Ipswich-Minister Fouras Wilson for Health) (12.8 a.m.): I thank the hon­ Gibbs, R. J. Wright ourable member for his contribution. What Hansen Hooper, K. J. he said is absolutely correct because this Houston clause will give employees in our hospital Jones Tellers: services added benefits. Kmger Vaughan Mackenroth Warburton Clause 17, as read, agreed to. Roads (Contribution to [31 MAY & 1 JuNE 1978] Maintenance) Act, &c., Bill 1395

Clauses 18 and 19, and schedule, as read, As honourable members are aware, all agreed to. money collected under the Act, without any Bill reported, without amendment. deduction whatsoever, is devoted to the repair and maintenance of the roads which suffer wear and tear by use, particularly THIRD READING by heavy vehicles. Bill, on motion of Dr. Edwards, by leave, In 1965 legislation was enacted in Vic­ read a third time. toria and subsequently adopted in most other States which made the directors of a corporation which is the owner of a com­ ROADS (CONTRIBUTION TO MAIN­ mercial goods vehicle liable to the same TENANCE) ACT AMENDMENT. BILL obligations as the corporation.

SECOND READING That Act was most effective in ensuring that road charges were paid. Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma-Minister Unfortunately in the case of Welker v for Transport) (12,10 a.m.): I move- Hewett and Another, 120 C.L.R., 503, and "That the Bill be now read a second subsequently in Cox v Tomat, 126 C.L.R., time." 105, it was decided by the High Court by As I explained in introducing this Bill to a majority that the law of a State could the Assembly, it is designed to give effect not impose an obligation on a person not to an agreement made between Common­ resident or domiciled in the State simply wealth and State Ministers for Transport in because he was a director of a company relation to problems of enforcement of the which operated a vehicle in the State. provisions of the principal Act for the col­ This has led to an ever-expanding use of lection of road maintenance charges. the device of registering a company in a The Roads (Contribution to Maintenance) State other than the State in which the Act requires the owner of every commercial directors are resident, and in particular in goods vehicle with a load capacity in excess South Australia. of 4.1 tonnes to make a contribution towards As I indicated in my introductory speech, compensation for wear and tear of public these companies are invariably straw com­ highways in Queensland. panies in the sense that they have no assets, and there is no point in seeking to recover All States except Tasmania have similar fines or road maintenance contributions legislation which has been held by the High from them. Court to be constitutionally valid. Because of the High Court decisions, no The principal Act became necessary only action can be taken against the directors because a Privy Council judgment of 1954 unless it can be proved that they are declared that interstate operators could not actually involved in the: operation of a be required to pay the fees imposed by the vehicle in the State. State Transport Facilities Acts of that time To make this virtually impossible, the and because the High Court, following the directors of the straw companies are usually principle of that judgment, later ruled that persons who have no real connection with vehicles used solely for the purposes of interstate trade escaped main roads regis­ the companies. tration fees also. Transport operators who make use of_ this device as I have indicated, are put m a The judgments I have mentioned meant positio'n of being able to compete unfairly that interstate hauliers could, and many in against other transport operators who do fact did and still attempt to use the roads not and cannot adopt such devices. without any contribution towards their upkeep, through the straw company device. Following discussions by the Australian Transport Advisory Council and by th.e In addition, at that time it left the way Standing Committee of Attorneys-General, 1t open for unscrupulous operators to manipu­ has been agreed that the only practical way late intrastate routes so as to be classed as to deal with the Welker v Hewett situation interstate operators-the border hopper era is for complementary legislation to be one could call it. enacted in all States and Territories which The Roads (Contribution to Maintenance) imposes on every person who is resident or Act would never have become necessary if present within a State or Territory and the interstate carriers had accepted their who is a director of a transport company responsibility for their fair share of the an obligation to ensure that fines and road maintenance and upkeep of Queensland contributions are paid by the company or roads. in default by the directors themselves. There is no way they can be made to This Bill is necessary not only to protect bear that responsibility except by this Act, the revenue of the State but also to ensure which imposes no greater charges than those that the law applies equitably to everyone necessary to recoup the costs of repairing engaged in interstate transport and that the damage caused by heavy vehicles, and treats honest operator should not be disadvantaged all road users, including interstate hauliers, by the operations of the fly-by-night opera­ alike. tor. 1396 Roads (Contribution to [31 MAY & 1 JuNE 1978] Maintenance) Act, &c., Bill

It seems strange to me that the honour­ way of contributing to his share of high­ able member for Brisbane Central went to way costs. He is not, however, left to his some length to blame the legislation for own devices sufficiently to discover this. drivers and operators going to gaol. May I say here and now that in no way "Thus we find that, under the the would a driver go to gaol unless he was the auspices of a parent organisation, simul­ owner-operator of the vehicle and the person taneously they fight the weight distance primarily responsible for the payment of tax in New York, gross receipts taxes in the road charges. Virginia, registration fees in Illinois, axle­ So the operator or the owner of the mile taxes in Ohio and ton-mile taxes in vehicle, as the Act provides, is given every Kansas. In one breath they assail the use consideration and it is onlv as a last resort of averages in formulating 'arbitrary' that the prosecution action is taken. Recov­ charges that are easy to collect and admin­ ery of road maintainance charges is by civil ister, and in the next they contend self­ process, but if an owner defies an order of assessed tax methods geared to the actual the court then he must surely face the operation of the vehicle are impractical consequences. and costly because 'there is a constant game of cops and robbers'. The honourable member also refers to considerable exemptions which have been "Every conceivable tax exacted prim­ granted. I think I should refresh his mem­ arily from the truckers has been taken to ory by saying categorically that the only court on charges of unconstitutionality. journeys which are exempted are journeys "Impassioned statements to the contrary, by vehicles used solely for the carriage of it must be concluded that no tax is milk or cream and on the return trip the acceptable to them except as a tempor­ carriage of empty containers used on the out­ ary measure to get rid of the one at hand. ward trip for the carriage of these com­ On all sides they are busily devising modities. 'alternate' tax plans to supplant whichever one exists. Often the alternate incorpor­ If it will assist him, I would be happy ates many of the features they find intol­ to make available for his consideration a erable in the one they seek to discard. very informative brochure issued by the then Minister for Transport, the Honourable "A shining example of that is their Gordon W. Chalk, in February 1958, wistful willingness to accept an interstate explaining the Roads (Contribution to Main­ truck tax, which has been widely projec­ tenance) Act of 1957. ted as a solution to the problem of states receiving compensation for these heavy This will cover most of the points he has vehicles. raised. "This tax would require as much or I remind honourable members that every more record keeping than the weight study that has been made, as well as distance tax they attack on this point. recent studies under the auspices of the Most acceptable to them is the gas tax, Australian Transport Advisory Council, has 90 per cent of which would be paid by come to the same conclusion, namely, that someone else, the passenger car operator." an additional fuel tax, either levied by the State as a purchase tax or by the Common­ Honourable members will see that things \Vealth as a fuel excise and paid to the have not really changed since 1955 and the States in full, would impose a further intoler­ arguments advanced then by the trucking able burden upon the motorist. industry are being repeated in this House. An increase of only le per litre of fuel, Even the South Australian Minister for or 4.5c a gallon, would result in the private Transport, Mr. Virgo, must concede this. motorist contributing something like 70 per As regards the fuel tax, a former executive cent of the additional revenue so obtained. secretary of the American Association of Is this equitable when the motor car State Highway Officials, Ha! H. Hale, had this relatively speaking, does no damage and to say in 1958, in the same publication- already contributes the bulk of our revenue "However, with the greatly expanded use from registration charges? of the heavy vehicle, such taxes are not a Of course the tax on fuel is the easiest fair measure of highway use. method, but it is also the most inequitable "While the large and heavy vehicle does way of charging for the use of roads. consume substantially more fuel per mile I commend the honourable member for of operation (hence it pays more fuel taxes Wavell for his contribution to the introduct­ than the automobile or light vehicle), such ory debate, as he put this question of a fuel taxes do not take into consideration the tax or a petrol tax in its right perspective. much greater demands upon the highway As far back as 1955, in a report of the structure and capacity made by the large New York State Joint Legislative Commit­ and heavy vehicle and the greatly increased tee on Carrier Taxation which was published highway cost as a result thereof. in the Vanderbilt Law Review in 1958, this "In considering the fuel tax as a user committee concluded- charge, it is also necessary to evaluate the "Making allowances for normal aversion increasing use of the diesel-powered heavy to paying taxes, the average trucker, left truck and the substantially increased mile­ to his own devices, doesn't. He now real­ age per gallon that the vehicle obtains, as izes that as taxes go, this is a reasonable compared with the gasoline-powered Roads (Contribution to [31 MAY & 1 JUNE 1978] Maintenance) Act, &c., Bill 1397

vehicle. Therefore, to avoid inequity private motor vehicle and light trucks, totalled between these two types of vehicles the approximately $683,700,000, whereas the diesel fuel tax should be higher than the customs and excise paid for automotive gasoline tax. distillate, which of course is the main fuel "While the fuel tax is the basic highway for the heavy vehicle, amounted to only user charge, in fairness to the private auto­ approximately $76,600,000. I think this high­ mobile user it should not be considered lights who is paying for our roads. as the only tax on the highway user." Take the simple case of a truck with a I would remind honourable members that load capacity of six tonnes travelling between attempts by both New South Wales and Boonah and Brisbane. At the present time, South Australia to raise additional funds assuming that the truck uses approximately for road purposes by imposing a purchase five gallons of diesel fuel, it would have to tax on fuel met with such opposition that pay an increased fuel tax per gallon of in both States the tax has been repealed. 18.6c to equal the present road maintenance contribution of 93c. As has already been pointed out by the honourable member for Woodridge, the views Of course the heavy-vehicle owner would of the Commonwealth Government have been prefer a fuel tax spread over all motor restated from time to time that it is not vehicles, particularly the private car. For a prepared to levy a tax for payment to the trip of this nature, instead of paying 18.6c States. a gallon he could probably pay a few cents with the private motorist bearing the major As recently as 9 July 1976, at a meeting burden of the additional charge. of the Australian Transport Advisory Council here in Brisbane, the Federal Minister for Again there is conclusive evidence that a Transport, the Honourable Peter Nixon, fuel tax is a poor measure of road usage. M.P., said- For example, the worse the road conditions, "The proposition in regard to fuel tax the higher the fuel consumption, and there­ has been before this council on many fore the more fuel tax is paid. The tax does occasions, as you all know. It has always not-and I repeat, "does not"-measure the been rejected, for the reason that it asked contribution each vehicle should make to the Commonwealth to raise a tax and road costs since the amount of charge paid hand it over to the States. If the situation by heavy commercial vehicles does not vary were reversed I do not think that proposi­ in proportion to the road costs for which tion would make any State Minister they are responsible. happy." When the road maintenance charge was Even the Honourable Geoff Virgo, the State first imposed some 20 years ago the col­ Minister for Transport, South Australia, lection costs by the Department of Trans­ agreed that unless the Commonwealth came port would not have exceeded 5 per cent to the party his suggestion of a fuel tax was of the road maintenance revenue collected. completely impractical. But with inflation in recent years, and My colleague the Honourable the Minister despite the increase in the number of vehicles for Local Government and Main Roads is -mainly private motor cars, by the way-it fully aware of what happens when the is inevitable that collection costs as a per­ Commonwealth Government gets its hands centage of revenue, with no increase in the on the fuel tax and how much comes back charge, should increase greatly when revenue to the States for road purposes. itself does not increase at the same rate as cost. The Australian Automobile Association is fully aware of the implications of the imposi­ When the charge was set in 1957, it was tion of an additional fuel tax as a substitute related to road maintenance costs in 1957 for road user charges and I can assure dollars. In terms of 1977 dollars there is honourable members that it is bitterly justification, if expenditure on road main­ opposed by that association. tenance is to meet present-day costs, for that charge to be increased substantially. Increased The private motorist is already bearing registration charges have been necessary, but the major burden of paying road user taxes this fixed charge does not measure the use including fuel tax, and I suggest to the of the roads by these registered vehicles. honourable member for vVoodridge, who has The road maintenance charge does. been espousing the submissions made by the Transport Minister in South Australia, that The superficial attractions of a fuel tax, he talk to all the private motorists in his when analysed, indicate that it would create electorate and put to them, "Are you prepared more anomalies than are readily apparent. to relieve ,the heavy motor vehicles of road All studies show that a heavy vehicle con­ maintenance charges for the damage they sumes more fuel than a light vehicle, but cause to the roads, by paying an additional at the same time the fuel consumed on a fuel tax?" tonne-per-kilometre basis decreases consider­ ably as the vehicle increases in size. This As an example of this, in 1976-77 customs is one important reason why heavy vehicle and excise paid to the Commonwealth for operators are always pressing for more liberal motor spirit, which is mainly used by the laws regarding capacity, weight and length 1398 Roads (Contribution to [31 MAY & 1 JUNE 1978] Maintenance) Act, &c., Bill limitations which would lessen their contribu­ As I indicated in introducing this Bill, tion to the construction and maintenance of it is mainly a machinery one which sets roads without necessarily reducing freight out the procedures to be adopted for the charges or real costs to the taxpayer. transmission to another reciprocating State, for registration in its reciprocating court, I would remind honourable members, too, orders or convictions obtained in Queensland that all moneys raised by the road main­ against companies registered in those tenance charge are paid without deduction to reciprocating States. Similarly the Bill pro­ a trust fund, which is distributed to local vides the machinery for companies in Queens­ authorities as well as to the Department of land to be proceeded against for defaults Main Roads for the maintenance of the occurring in another reciprocating State so roads. far as road maintenance is concerned. The honourable member for Woodridge has made much of poor truckies trying to I am advised that similar legislation has get round the provisions of the legislation. been passed in Western Australia in the But he must admit that if these poor truckies last couple of weeks. There is every indica­ charged proper freight rates, of which the tion that, with the passing of similar legisla­ road contribution is a very minor part, they tion in Victoria-and then in New South would not get into the trouble that he Wales and South Australia, where it remains speaks of. to be done-the legislation will be watertight. I am very optimistic that the Transport Min­ I would hope the honourable member would ister of South Australia will see the light read the words of his Labor colleagues in and, with complete uniformity of legislation Victoria when similar legislation was intro­ in the States, the straw-company device will duced into the Legislative Council of that be stamped out once and for all. State, when it received unqualified support. The Honourable R. J. Eddy, -member for Mr. DA VIS (Brisbane Central) (12.30 a. m.): Thomas-town Province, in his contribution Judging by the observation of the Minister, to the debate on similar legislation, said, he does not seem to be in favour of a and I quote from "Hansard" of that State fuel tax. Since the first reading of the of 4 April just past- Bill, I have received a bit of a flak from "The measure is long overdue. Com­ my own union, with which I have been associ­ plementary legislation in all States will ated for a number of years, and it does provide that transport operators, irres­ not seem to be in favour of a fuel tax. pective of from where they may be opera­ ting, will have to meet the road charges Mr. Bishop: Which union is that? in all States. "Those people who have been endeavour­ Mr. DAVIS: The Transport Workers' ing to cheat, particularly Victoria, on these Union. road taxes should be eliminated because, by eYading their full share of road taxes, Mr. Casey interjected. they are competing unfairly against the big companies which have to meet the Mr. DAVIS: It is a very noble union. charges. I have discussed this matter with the Transport Workers Union and both that I have also had a great deal of response from people who favour the introduction of union and the Labor Party commend the a fuel tax. I suggested that a fuel tax be Bill." introduced. I shall go further and say why I think that answers the comments by the there should be different form of road tax. honourable member for Woodridge. Mr. Elliott: The present system is com­ The honourable member for Bundaberg pletely inefficient, that is why. referred to a problem one of his constituents had in respect of an interstate movement Mr. DAVIS: It is inefficient. Both in his of furniture. This highlights some of the speech at the introductory stage and at the difficulties that are caused by certain types National Party Conference the honourable of interstate operators who are not subject member for Cunningham supported the intro­ to the Queensland hire licensing provisions. duction of a fuel tax. However, as the honourable member would now appreciate, this Bill does not deal with I should like to place on record the results that aspect of interstate operations but purely of a survey, conducted by "Truckin' Life", with the payment of road-user charges. of the various transport Ministers throughout Australia. The Minister in charge of trans­ In many cases, of course, the removalist port in Victoria, Mr. J. A. Rafferty, said, van has a load capacity less than 4.1 tonnes even though Victoria agreed to introduce this and is not subject to road maintenance complementary legislation, "Abolish. Replace charges. Without full details of the problem, by fuel tax levy. Co-operation of .other States I cannot comment as to the applicability of needed." The Labor spokesman m that State the other Act administered by the depart­ said, "User pays. Administer policy through ment, the Carriers' Liability Act. If the fuel levy." honourable member wishes to give me some details of the matter he raised, I will have Mr. Frawley: Give us a break and have it examined. it taken as read. Roads (Contribution to [31 MAY & 1 JUNE 1978] Maintenance) Act, &c., Bill 1399

Mr. DA VIS: I cannot do that. The hon­ the conference more or less said that they ourable member should listen to this because would do so. Even in trucking journals that obviously he would have a problem in are quite opposed to this tax it is stated that Caboolture with some of the truck operators the South Australian Government will go there. along with it. The Minister in charge of transport in There is just one other point that I New South Wales, Mr. Peter Cox, favours should like to make concerning both inter­ the continuation of road maintenance charges. state and intrastate trucking operations. With The Liberal shadow Minister, Allan Viney, all the expertise available in transport depart­ said, "Abolish. Replace by increased com­ ments throughout Queensland and the rest mercial registration fees." In Queensland, of of Australia, it must surely be possible to course, the Minister's views have been well find a more equitable method of imposing and truly outlined tonight. charges. Irrespective of what the Minister Mv view is that there should be a different may say, I am sure that something much system. I favour the introduction of a fuel better than we have now could be found. tax. In South Australia, Mr. Virgo favours a fuel levy, and the Liberal Party spokes­ On the subject of fuel tax-the idea was to man also favours a fuel tax. In Western impose a minimum registration fee and levy Australia, the Minister supports the retention fuel tax after that payment had been made. of a maintenance charge, and the shadow I go so far as to say that when Transport Minister says that it should be replaced by Ministers meet in conference they should commercial plates. set up an inquiry to investigate transport throughout Australia. Interstate and intra­ As I pointed out at the introductory stage, state transport has, like Topsy, just grown. it must be remembered that this is awkward I recall that interstate operators were getting legislation because in many cases the amount about £15 a ton in 1957 for the trip to of money collected is so high. Sydney. About 10 years later, because of cut-throat competition in the industry, they The 30th Annual Report of the Commis­ were still getting the same return. sioner for Transport contains some very interesting facts. On page 7 it says- We all know that over the years many "The number of prosecution actions things have happened in the trucking indus­ finalised during the year under review was try. There have been numerous charges of 8,475 as against 7,300 during the previous companies trying to sell heavy units to drivers year. One thousand, nine hundred and purely and simply in order to evade award ninety-three (1 ,993) of the cases finalized conditions. This is where the cut-throat com­ were second and subsequent offences com­ petition comes into the industry. I have no mitted by the same owner, which resulted doubt that all members in this House have in the imposition of statutory minimum encountered transport operators who have had penalties. This was 846 more than the to knuckle under because of exorbitant previous year." charges and cut-throat competition. I think it That is a large number of prosecutions, would be all to the good if transport Mini­ from which over $68,000 in fines and $17,700 sters at their next meeting set up an inquiry in court charges was collected. Obviously, into road transport. We must face the fact the prosecutions were the result of the polic­ that this is a big industry which will continue ing of the Act. to grow and grow. Those offenders were caught, fined and prosecuted for offences. However, in many I was interested to hear some of the parts of Queensland where the legislation is remarks made about the American system. not enforced as strictly as it is in the south­ I would be very pleased if the Minister east quarter, there must be hundreds of truck would be kind enough to forward that infor­ drivers and operators who are not paying mation to me. their full taxes. Even though the legislation was originally enacted to provide for inter­ In all, I have not changed my views on state collection, intrastate collection is also fuel tax. I do not think a better system has covered. The costs of collecting road main­ as yet been formulated. I think road main­ tenance tax must be prohibitive. tenance charges are prohibitive because of the costs involved in their imposition and I have mentioned on a number of occasions the e1asion and obstruction that has been collection. In addition, there is the cost of employed by road operators, as well as the employing transport police to catch those amount of paper work involved. who try to evade the charges. Obviously the whole industry is in a mess. I think the Minister has made the point that this provision will not apply to drivers Like Cinderella, I always seem to come but only to officers of a company. Opposition on at about midnight, so I shall conclude on members are therefore in favour of it, as one more point concerning long-distance if one has to pay, all should pay. transport. This industry is in chaos as, I am Mention was made of the reciprocal agree­ sure, the Minister's officers would agree. Take ment. While the Minister said that South for example, the hours that some operators Australia has not so far agreed, those at have to work. I realise that they have to 1400 Roads (Contribution to [31 MAY & 1 JuNE 1978] Maintenance) Act, &c., Bill

produce log books, but I know of many costs to collect the charges imposed under instances of interstate truck drivers who the legislation. They should then ask them­ work anything up to 15 and 20 hours a day. selves whether there is a more efficient I recall one man who came to see me who system which we could adopt. There must be had bought a truck but was unable to meet a way and, as chairman of the National all his expenses and pay it off. He could not Party transport committee, I have done my even pay road maintenance tax. He had to level best to get people to at least think hit himself with bennies to keep going. He about the problem and not just assume that once said he pulled up in the middle of the this is the only solution to the problem, Hume Highway to make sure that a train because it is not. had crossed a railway crossing. But after a while other drivers started to toot their I realise that the hour is late, but I want to horns and he got out and found that there deal briefly with the retail side of the truck­ was not even a railway crossing there. ing industry. Honourable members should drive down Ipswich Road and have a look This is an important Bill and I hope that at the yards full of second-hand trucks that the Minister will take note of what I have dealers cannot sell to save themselves. If said about an inquiry, because none has something does not happen soon to improve been conducted to date by the Federal or returns in this industry, we will see a crash State Governments. I am sure that when the the size of which we have never seen before. Minister next attends a conference of Trans­ Those dealers along Ipswich Road will be port Ministers he will be able to achieve caught with all those trucks and they will go agreement on the introduction of a more to the wall. But, believe me, it will not stop equitable system than exists at the moment. there. If those yards go to the wall the finance companies will go down with them, Mr. ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (12.41 a.m.): Having listened to the second-reading speech and the reverberations of this crash will of the Minister, one would swear that the affect every finance house in Australia. great multitude of people he referred to, car I will now briefly sum up the points I drivers, never have anything carted by truck. am making. I am not trying to make out I must remind honourable members that transportation of almost all commercial goods that the contribution to road maintenance in Australia is done by truck. People do not tax is breaking truckies. What I am saying like to admit it, but it is true. We in this is that in some instances it can prove to be Chamber should be looking very seriously at the straw that breaks the camel's back. It the trucking industry. As a group, truck is a tax that it is easy to avoid for a while. operators are contributing far more to the Instead of paying it, the operator puts obli­ economy of this nation than they receive. gation to one side and pays the fuel bills In fact, they probably contribute more to because he realises that without fuel the the economy than any other single group, truck does not run and cannot earn money. yet we hear people in this House knocking He is able to dodge it for a while and and kicking them every day of the week. then all of a sudden Mr. Seeney's depart­ I am sick to death of people who should ment comes along and says, "I am very know better knocking truckies all the time. sorry, but it is time we caught up with They work really hard for not a very you." He is then faced with having to pay great return. I am talking now not about $3,000 or $4,000 instead of only $1,000 or the multinational trucking corporations, but $1,500, and that in some instances is the the individual operators and small business­ straw that breaks the camel's back. men who do their job effectively and try to do it honestly. The system we have set If anyone can suggest to me a better up in this and other States under the Roads system than the fuel tax system that is (Contribution to Maintenance) Act has done proposed, I will go along with it. My mind nothing but push these people down into the is not closed about it. If anyone can dirt. With this legislation, we have made suggest something more realistic, I will criminals of honest men and we ought to jump at it tomorrow and go right along hang our heads in shame at the attitude we with it. No-one seems prepared to go out have adopted to the trucking industry. and do some work. Very few people on We must not accept the arguments put either side of the House have been prepared forward by academics that there is no solu­ to really look into this question with an tion to the problem. I do not believe that open mind in an attempt to evolve a better in any instance we can afford to accept the system so that we do not keep hounding this word "can't". There is too much of that section of the community into the ground in this Government and in this nation as a the way we are. I believe it will end in whole. People are easily led and they accept disaster if we start prosecuting small com­ it when they are told, "You can't do this. panies. I realise that they should be prose­ We will give you a thousand good reasons cuted if they break the law-no-one should why you can't do it." be above the Jaw-but if we enact a law that I suggest that all honourable members look encourages people to flout it, the law should at the Roads (Contribution to Maintenance) be looked at very closely to see if we can Act for themselves and judge how much it find a better solution. Roads, &c., Bill [31 MAY & 1 JUNE 1978] Constitution Act, &c., Bill 1401

Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma-Minister CONSTITUTION ACT AMENDMENT for Transport) (12.48 a.m.), in reply: I think BILL I should reply briefly to both speakers. They put up similar arguments. I was just as SECOND READING keen on the fuel tax as they were when I Hon. J. IUELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ first came into the House, and it was only Premier) (12.52 a.m.): I move- because of the impracticability of it that I changed my mind. The impracticability of "That the Bill be now read a second it is quite simple. It goes back to the days time." of one of our great leaders, Sir John McEwen. I remember asking him this ques­ If any Parliament is to function properly tion, "Would the Commonwealth be prepared it must have some privileges which ensure to collect those funds on behalf of all the freedom from outside interference. As States?" He replied, "No Government indicated at the introductory stage, the irrespective of party would collect a tax on powers, privileges and amenities of this behalf of State Governments. We have Assembly are found in the Constitution Act. never done it yet. We would get the odium However, these powers, privileges and of it and the State Governments would get amenities are not as complete as those of the benefit." the House of Commons, the Commonwealth Parliament and most other State Parliaments. An Honourable Member interjected. The object of the Bill is to give this Assembly the same powers, privileges and Mr. TOMKINS: I was just saying that amenities as those enjoyed by the House unless that can be overcome, it could not be of Commons, except those which are incon­ brought in, anyway. sistent with the provisions of the Constitution Mr. Davis: Malcolm Fraser said that he Act or any other enactment of this Parlia­ would collect for the States. ment. There can be no doubting that these powers, privileges and immunities are essential Mr. TOMKINS: No. to the proper functioning of this Assembly and its Committee. I thank honourable mem­ I could not understand why the member bers for their support. for Cunningham said that we were tough on the industry. My comments may have Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (12.53 a.m.): The been a bit tough on the industry, but acts Opposition has no objection to the Bill. All speak louder than words. After all, this I want to do at this stage is repeat the Government was responsible for the removal warning I gave at the introductory stage. of permit fees, so it could not be said that As parliamentarians, we must be cautious of that did not help the industry. By the same the use of our powers lest they be abused. token, it made it very hard for the Railway That comment applies not so much to those Department. Government policy, as honour­ of us who are here now as to those who will able members would realise, is to be fair to sit in future Parliaments and who may have all forms of transport, and that is not easy thoughts and ideas different from those to achieve. expressed by us. I point out also that the road maintenance But let's not leave it at that; let's not tax has not risen since it first started in stop at taking unto ourselves the powers, 1957-58. Today we collect something like privileges and amenities of the House of $5,300,000, which is not very much. Also Commons. Let us go further and, through the a lot of this money goes to my colleague th~ Committee of Privileges, bring forward addi­ Honourable Minister for Main Roads, who tional recommendations to ensure that we uses it in accordance with section 19 for have our own proper legislation to cover our main roads. Country areas benefit greatly privileges in the future. from this money. I leave it at that. Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. Motion (Mr. Tomkins) agreed to.

COMMITTEE

COMMITTEE (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. Hewitt, Greenslopes, in the chair) (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. Hewitt, Greenslopes, in the chair) Clauses 1 to 3, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Clauses 1 to 8, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. Bill reported, without amendment. THIRD READING Bill, on motion of Mr. Bjelke-Petersen, THIRD READING by leave, read a third time. Bill, on motion of Mr. Tomkins, by leave, The House adjourned at 12.56 a.m. read a third time. (Thursday). 63225--46