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Wednesday Volume 553 21 November 2012 No. 72 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 21 November 2012 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 561 21 NOVEMBER 2012 562 a future pipeline of £9.4 billion with many thousands of House of Commons jobs attached. Each of those investment decisions has been taken in the sure and certain knowledge that the Wednesday 21 November 2012 referendum is coming and independence is likely. Why does the Minister think that these investment decisions The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock continue to be made, and why is nobody listening to his scare stories? PRAYERS David Mundell: I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman’s analysis. These investments are taking place despite the [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] uncertainty, not because of it. I tend to agree with the chief executive of Aggreko, who said yesterday in giving evidence to a parliamentary Committee that the supposed Oral Answers to Questions benefits of independence were “small and tenuous” and unlikely to arise, while the dangers were “large and serious”. SCOTLAND Stewart Hosie: The Minister mentions uncertainty, The Secretary of State was asked— but the only uncertainty we have seen is the massive increase made in the North sea supplementary charge Independence (Jobs) with no discussion with the sector, and the uncertainty for employees now that this Government are making it 1. Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): What assessment easier to sack people. Is it not the case, as Douglas he has made of the potential effects on jobs in Scotland Sawers of Ceridian said when he made a significant of Scottish independence. [128888] investment earlier this year, that in the event of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland independence, the Scottish Government’s approach will (David Mundell): The UK Government firmly believe be to make Scotland more, not less, competitive? Is that that Scotland is, and always will be, better off in the not the truth? Instead of scare stories, we are going to UK. The UK Government are undertaking a programme move to independence with a Government who will of analysis to evaluate how Scotland contributes to, make Scotland more, not less, competitive? and benefits from, being part of the UK. David Mundell: When the people of Scotland make a Lindsay Roy: I thank the Minister for that answer. decision on independence in the referendum, they must Will he explain why there is so much concern among be sure that that decision is a long-term one. Independence those working in the defence and supply chain industries is not for Christmas 2014. If the hon. Gentleman looked in Scotland over the future of their jobs? at the Institute for Fiscal Studies report, he would see that it says that an independent Scotland would face David Mundell: I can advise the hon. Gentleman that, much harder decisions than the rest of the UK in the as of April, there were 15,880 regular armed forces and longer term. Ministry of Defence civilian personnel based in Scotland, and an additional 40,000 people employed in defence-related 13. [128901] Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): industries in around 800 companies. Not one of those The Minister will be aware that 30,000 Scots are people could guarantee their job under an independent employed by UK Government agencies to work as civil Scotland. servants in Scotland, including in the Department for International Development, which has 450 staff Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): The SNP’s members in East Kilbride. What would happen to commitment to a nuclear-free Scotland will presumably those jobs if Scotland voted for independence, and has mean the end of Trident, the end of the Vanguard there been any clarity on that from the SNP? submarines that carry it and the end of Rosyth. Am I right in thinking that that affects something like 6,500 jobs in Scotland? Does the Minister think that these David Mundell: There has been no discussion between jobs would be replicated elsewhere, or would those the SNP, or indeed the Scottish Government, and the people simply lose their jobs, thanks to an SNP UK Government about the future of defence- based Government? jobs, civil service jobs or any other jobs in Scotland. The people in those jobs would face, as would everybody David Mundell: I can advise my hon. Friend that by else, great uncertainty if Scotland were to become 2020, there will be 8,000 jobs based at Faslane, following independent. the recent announcement by the Secretary of State for Defence of an additional 1,500 jobs. There is absolutely Independence Referendum (Electoral Commission) no certainty about what would happen to anybody employed in the Ministry of Defence or the defence industries in Scotland under an independent Scotland. 2. Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): What role the Electoral Commission will play in the referendum on Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): The list of recent Scottish independence. [128889] investment and job announcements in Scotland has been quite remarkable, particularly in the renewables 11. Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con): What role the sector. The Minister will know there were £2.3 billion-worth Electoral Commission will play in the referendum on of completed projects to July this year, and that there is Scottish independence. [128899] 563 Oral Answers21 NOVEMBER 2012 Oral Answers 564 The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): Yesterday, The agreement reached between the United Kingdom the gentleman who gave evidence to the Select Committee and Scottish Governments recognises the importance chaired by the hon. Member for Glasgow South West of the independent Electoral Commission and that the (Mr Davidson) on behalf of the Yes Scotland campaign referendum should be based on the normal rules for for separation refused to state categorically that his referendums held across the UK. campaign would abide by the advice of the Electoral Commission. What sanctions can be imposed on a Bob Blackman: It is clearly important for all parties Government, a Parliament or a campaign that blatantly to respect the independence of the Electoral Commission. refuses to take the commission’s advice ? Does my right hon. Friend agree that if the SNP Administration in Scotland were to ignore the commission’s Michael Moore: I understand my hon. Friend’s anxiety, advice, that would taint the whole process and call into but this Government and their predecessors have always question whether the referendum was fair? followed the advice of the Electoral Commission, and I would expect the Scottish Government to do so as well. Michael Moore: My hon. Friend is right to highlight Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): The Secretary of State the expertise and experience of the Electoral Commission, has just asserted yet again that no Government have which is indeed a highly respected institution. I do not ever ignored the advice of the Electoral Commission, think that it would be in the interests of the Scottish and has implied that the Scottish Government might. Government or any nationalists to pit themselves against Far from ignoring the commission’s advice, the Scottish the commission’s advice. Government have yet to receive it. Meanwhile, the right hon. Gentleman’s Government have rejected the Electoral Karen Lumley: Does my right hon. Friend share the Commission’s advice on the desirability of referendums concern that the referendum question submitted to the on council tax in England. Will he now put the record Electoral Commission by the Scottish Government is straight? weighted in favour of a positive outcome? Michael Moore: I hope that I can reassure the hon. Michael Moore: I understand the concern that people Gentleman and help him to calm down. As the Electoral feel about the formulation presented by the Scottish Commissioner John McCormick said on television just Government, but I think that, given its great experience, the other weekend, great expertise and trusted status, the Electoral Commission “For every referendum that has taken place, the Electoral is in the right position to carry out the right procedures. Commission’s advice and question has been accepted.” I am ready to stand by its advice, and I hope that the As for the issue of local government referendums, none Scottish Government are too. has taken place. We have already said that we have reflected on the Electoral Commission’s advice, and I Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op): shall be presenting proposals on that question very Does the Secretary of State accept that while the Electoral shortly. Commission may be a trifle wishy-washy on occasion, it Businesses is necessary for an impartial body to decide important questions such as the question of the question? The 3. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): alternative is for separatists to be both referee and What steps his Department is taking to promote player, and it is simply unacceptable for the party that is businesses in Scotland around the world. [128890] on one side of the argument to decide the rules as well. 12. Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): What Michael Moore: I entirely agree with the eminent steps his Department is taking to promote businesses in Chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee. He and his Scotland around the world. [128900] colleagues have been conducting a series of investigations of that issue and others relating to independence. I The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore): believe that the referendum must be seen to be fair to The Government are committed to promoting United both sides.
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