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John E. Nolan Oral History Interview – RFK#2, 07/24/1970 Administrative Information

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John E. Nolan Oral History Interview – RFK#2, 07/24/1970 Administrative Information John E. Nolan Oral History Interview – RFK#2, 07/24/1970 Administrative Information Creator: John E. Nolan Interviewer: Roberta W. Greene Date of Interview: July 24, 1970 Place of Interview: Washington, D.C. Length: 20 pages Biographical Note Nolan was the administrative assistant to the Attorney General, Robert F. Kennedy [RFK], from 1963 to 1964. In this interview Nolan discusses RFK as “very sparing... [with] his own opinions;” the meeting in New York on March 13, 1968, to discuss RFK’s presidential candidacy; Nolan’s return to California and setting up RFK’s campaign headquarters and staff there; decisions about purchasing campaign materials and printing petition forms; picking a California delegation for RFK; and bringing people into the campaign, among other issues. Access Open. Usage Restrictions According to the deed of gift signed January 8, 1991, copyright of these materials has been assigned to the United States Government. Users of these materials are advised to determine the copyright status of any document from which they wish to publish. Copyright The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and archives are authorized to furnish a photocopy or other reproduction. One of these specified conditions is that the photocopy or reproduction is not to be “used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research.” If a user makes a request for, or later uses, a photocopy or reproduction for purposes in excesses of “fair use,” that user may be liable for copyright infringement. This institution reserves the right to refuse to accept a copying order if, in its judgment, fulfillment of the order would involve violation of copyright law. The copyright law extends its protection to unpublished works from the moment of creation in a tangible form. Direct your questions concerning copyright to the reference staff. Transcript of Oral History Interview These electronic documents were created from transcripts available in the research room of the John F. Kennedy Library. The transcripts were scanned using optical character recognition and the resulting text files were proofread against the original transcripts. Some formatting changes were made. Page numbers are noted where they would have occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the Library and consult the transcripts and the interview recordings. Suggested Citation John E. Nolan, recorded interview by Roberta W. Greene, July 24, 1970, (page number), Robert F. Kennedy Oral History Program of the John F. Kennedy Library. NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION JOHN F. KENNEDY LIBRARY Legal Agreement Pertaining to the Oral History Interviews of John Nolan In accordance with the provisions of Chapter 21 of Title 44, United States Code, and subject to the terms and conditions hereinafter set forth, I, John Nolan, do hereby give, donate, and convey to the United States of America all my rights, title, and interest in the tape recording and transcript of personal interviews conducted on July 14, 1970, July 24, 1970, August 2, 1970, May 11, 1971, November 11, 1971 and January 18, 1972 at Washington, DC and prepared for deposit in the John F. Kennedy Library. This assignment is subject to the following terms and conditions: (1) The transcript shall be made available for use by researchers as soon as it has been deposite d in the John F . Kennedy Library. (2) The tape recording shall be made available to those researchers who have access to the transcript. (3) I hereby assign to t h e United States Government all copyright I may have in the interview transcript and tape. (4) Copies of the transcript and the tape recording may be provided by the Library to researchers upon request. (5) Copies of the transcript and tape recording may be deposited in or loaned to institutions other than the John F. Kennedy Library. Date c 0 - =------~ Archivist of the Un~ted States ( ----- . J? /Cl'f / Date / Understanding Regarding the Use of the Oral History Interview Conducted by the John F. Kennedy :.ibrary with John Nolan l, The interview transcript may be made a.vailable, on an unrestricted basis, to a.eyone ap!>¥ng to use the resources of the John F. KeiUledy Library. (This includes journalists and students as well as professional. historians, political scientists and other scholars.) 2. ,Copies of the intervie·,. transcript (or portions thereof') may be made and given, upon request, to all researchers . .. 3. Copies of the interview transcript may not be deposited for research use ill other institutions, such as university libraries, ~blic libraries and other presidential libraries, without Iri1f 'Written permission, 4. The interview transcript may not be published (i.e. reproduced or printed for sale to the general public) in whol.e or in substa.I!tial part ;,'ithout 'I11Y 'Written permission until 25 years from the da.te of the interview. 5. Researchers ms;y publish brief quotations ·from the interview transcript (but not the tape) and may paraphrase or cite the text without 'f11Y permission. signed:_:s:sJ!!l£2~J1\Il...u!:A~~·=::... John Nolan ~----- -------- Second Oral History Interview with JOHN NOLAN July 24, 1970 Washington, D.C. By Roberta Greene For the Robert F. Kennedy Oral History Program Of the Kennedy Library GREENE: I think last time when we left off you were about to talk about the March 12 meeting you had with Robert Kennedy, which would have been the day after you carne back from California, the first trip. You said that you met with him privately, I think. You got that from your diary, I think. NOLAN: Oh, that's right, yes. I had a clear recollection of it when we were talking about it before. GREENE: Would he have asked you about what you found out in California? NOLAN: Oh yes, he did. I remember taking a phone call from him in the kitchen of our house sometime in the afternoon. I think it was raining that day. As I recall, I had gotten home from here, from the office, late in the afternoon or something, and just as I carne in the door, the phone was ringing. He was calling from the (United States) Senate and, yes, he was interested in California, what it was like, what the situation was, what people out there thought. He, Bob Kennedy, wa s never very interested in subsidiary questions. I mean, he would typically ask a question like, "Can I win in California?" or something like that. He'd go right to the .. When you're first dealing with him--this always used to surprise me; later I became accustomed to it, and it was a technique of his that he used; it was a habit--he never asked very many detailed questions, or not at the outset of a conversation at any rate. He would say typically, "Can I win?" or, "How is Goldwater [Barry M. Goldwater) going to do in California?" or, "Are we going to win or not?" Just the ultimate question would usually start the conversations about subjects he was interested in. GREENE: Would he then ask you to justify it, whatever it was you said? NOLAN: Some conversation began and ended with one question. He was probably better at getting information from people than most other people I know. He was usually very sparing about expressing his own opinions. He was a good questioner and, I always felt, able to get more information and take more advantage of information, the knowledge of people who were working for him or working with him, or people he would just meet some place, just by asking a simple, direct question. GREENE: Did you ever get the feeling, at least with people he didn't know well, that it was a defensive mechanism, to ask questions as a way of not having to speak his own mind? NOLAN: No, I don't think so. He never had that problem. If he didn't want to speak his own mind, he just didn't say anything. I mean, he'd just sit and look at you or something. Or he would say--as he did one day in the campaign of 1964 to a girl who was a reporter for the New York Post. I don't remember her name, but I would recognize it. We started out down at the lower tip of Manhattan at the ferry, I think, and somehow, I think through Ed Guthman [Edwin 0. Guthman], she. Bob had to go back uptown, back to the apartment at the Carlyle [Carlyle Hotel], I guess. Her name was Judy Michaelson. GREENE: Yes, I recognize that. NOLAN: She was picked to ride in the car. I guess there was a driver and Bob Kennedy in the front seat, and Ed Guthman and Judy Michaelson and I were in the back seat. It's about a half-hour ride uptown. He is very hot news--this is August 1964--and just starting the New York campaign. Everybody in the state wants to interview him. She has a captive interviewee for a period of a half hour, great reportorial opportunity. She is a very nice girl and a good reporter, but somehow, they just couldn't get the interview going. She was asking a lot of questions that were sort of personal questions: "What do you think about this?" "How do you feel about that?" "What was your reaction when you saw this?" So we get up to maybe, Fourteenth Street or something like that and he turned around--this was after she had asked, maybe thirty­ five questions along that order--and he looked at her and said, "I just don't do very well with questions like that." Then he turned back to look at the road as rode along, and there was this interminable silence--it must have been two minutes where nobody said anything.
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