Interview

Southall Black Sisters Hannana Siddiqui speaks to Rasna Warah

Southall Black Sisters (SBS) is one of the most vocal and active organisations for Asian and Afro Caribbean women in Britain. In the last 15 years it has conducted highly successful campaigns around discriminatory immigration laws, illegal “virginity” tests at Heathrow airport, domestic violence and other issues that affect British Asian women in particular. Hannana Siddiqui, a longtime member of Southall Black Sisters, was interviewed by Rasna Warah about some of the issues her organisation has been handling.

How and why was SBS formed? Lon-don where SBS is based). The community about her death. It was SBS was set up in 1979 at the peak whole community came out in protest. outrageous because, on the one hand, of the anti-racist movement in this The police attacked the Asian racism and very active against racism, country. Asian and Afro-Carib-bean protestors. Many people, including but, on the other hand, when it came women came together to address some one white anti-racist, were killed by to women’ s oppression, they were of the issues that affect Black women. the police. So, there was a lot of anger silent. So there was a need for us to We defined ourselves as “Black” in a against racism and fascism at that organise as women, as Black women, political sense because we felt that time. within the community to address there was a need to unite on a common Around the same time, there was some of these issues which the front against racism, given our a woman called Mrs Dhillon who, community did not want to take up. common history of colonialism, along with her five children, was set In the early years we were a imperialism andcontemporary racism. on fire and killed by her husband for campaigning organisation. We A lot of people were coming together no other reason except that she had campaigned against racial attacks; we on these issues at the time, redefining produced five daughters and no sons. worked towards the unionisation of themselves as Bla ;k and creating that There was a kind of silence in the women in the workplace; we kind of anti-racist political movement. So we came together on the same issues—anti-racism—but also because we felt that there was a need to address issues around the oppression of women because in our own communities these issues were not being addressed. The Asian community, like any other com-munity, is very male-dominated and it wasn’t in the interest of the leaders of this community to address the issues that women were facing within the family, the home and so forth. Aroun<| that time, there was a lot of protest and anger against the Na-tional Front, a fascist organisation which was allowed to march through Southall (an area in the west of Hanna Siddiqui of Southall Black Sisters

20 MANUSHI supported Women strikers. We also protested against virginity tests on Indian women that were taking place at Heathrow airport by organising pickets and so forth. That practice was eventually stopped. [ In the early 1980s, the British im-migration authorities devised a new scheme to attempt to detect marriages of convenience. They started testing new Indian brides who arrived in Lon-don to join their spouses by checking to see if they were virgins. If they were, they were considered “fake” brides. It was assumed that all unmar-ried Indian women are virgins. The practice caused an uproar among the Asian community in Britain.] In 1983 we got funding from the with debt and immigration problems. recourse to avenues which other Greater London Council (GLC), which There is a rule in this country that if battered women have in this society was the London regional authority. your status is unsettled and you are because they will be breaking the Later on, when the GLC was married to a spouse with a settled rules. abol-ished, funding was taken over by status, then you have to stay within Their chances of staying in this the local authority. As a result of that marriage for at least a year before country are very slim. They don’ t funding, we were able to set up a you can get to stay indefinitely. If the have effective rights to appeal. They centre and provide day-to-day help marriage breaks down within thatyear, depend on the decision of the home and practical services for women. We you are liable for deportation. Women secretary who exercises his (so far, it now provide an information, advice, who face violence within that has always been a man) discretion on resource and counselling centre for marriage are then caught in a life- whether to allow them to stay on women. The majority of women who threatening situation because if they compassionate grounds. Case after come to us are Asians because of SBS’ leave the man, they can be deported. case has been refused. They don’t location, al-though we help women Many are from the Indian really exercise that compassion in from all racial and cultural subcontinent—cultures where they favour of the woman. If they leave, backgrounds. get socially outcast for being they face all these problems; if they divorced or separated—so they are stay, they risk their lives and the lives What are the main problems of the terrified of being deported. women who come to you? of their children. The men tend to use Also, in this country there is a that power to control the women, Domestic violence and matrimonial rule that if you leave that marriage, problems are the main reasons why knowing that these women can’t go not only are you liable for out and get help. A lot of the women women come to us. Young Asian girls deportation, but you also can’t have seek help when they face problems of who face theseproblemsoftengoback recourse to public funds, which to that kind of relationship because of forced arranged marriages, have means you cannot claim anything restrictions placed on their the fear of being sent back and not from the welfare state—so-cial having anywhere else to go. lifestyles— which can also extend to security, housing and so on. You simple things like not being able to cannot even go to a women’s shelter These are problems that occur wear western clothes or going out or refuge because those refuges within the first year of marriage. After with friends—or are denied careers depend on housing benefits to pay the first year are they entitled to and education and pressured into for their rent and so forth. So these stay? marriage instead. women also find it very difficult to Sometimes the first year gets We also deal with a whole range find refuge spaces. These women, extended to two years because the of related problems such as who are largely Black and migrant husbands haven’t gone on to homelessness, childcare needs, social women—largely this category has regularise their status or the period has security benefits, claims, problems problems of immigration—have no been extended through the Home

NUMBER 80 (January-February 1994) Office. When you come into this prove rape in Pakistan. If you cannot moved on this is-sue. I think it is a country, your passport gets stamped prove rape, you get convicted on Zina reflection of their whole policy immedi-ately saying that you’ve got laws, the Islamic laws on adultery. She to-wards immigral on as well as disc r one year. Within that year, the Home ultimately ended up marrying her i m i n a t i o n against Black people. Office writes to the husband giving rapist because if she couldn’t prove The government is making very him a list of questions to answer, such rape, she would have been convicted sympathetic noises about domes-tic as whether his marriage has worked for adultery for which the ultimate violence—such as saying that there out or whether he is still living with penalty is death, hard labour or is a need to improve response to his wife. He has to respond to that impris-onment. She was brought into do-mestic violence—and yet they letter and go back to the Home Office, this country by him because he refuse to modify the immigration which then gives the wife indefinite normally lived here. Her husband procedures that discriminate against leave to remain. exploited the situation—he would Black women. Often the marriage breaks down beat her and of-ten was very violent. Tell us more about some of SBS’ within that one year. Men often use She has two children by him. Then campaigns which have been that letter as a way of controlling when she tried to take some action success-ful. women. The man may refuse to reply against him for his violence, he Since our campaigns are reflective to the letter. Thus another six months informed the Home Office that she was of the experiences of women who may go by until the Home Office an illegal immigrant.The authorities come here, most of our campaigns over writes another letter and maybe then tried to deport her. In fact,on two the years have centred around another six months will go by. The occasions, she was taken into domestic violence. The campaigns woman can end up living in this detention and nearly sent off. We have focused on very tragic cases in uncertain situation for two or three really had to campaign hard for her which women have either committed years. We have got women who have and her children to” stay on in this suicide or been murderedby been here eight or nine years and their country. We were successful, I think, theirhusbandsorpartners. status is still not regularised. because the British government In the early ’80s we had the case How does the SBS help women in would have been shown in a very poor of Krishna Sharma who hung herself this situation? light if it sent someone back to a after years of violence. Later on we What can we say to them? regime like that. However, I think had the case of Balwant Kaur who Sometimes, if it’s really horrific, we permission to remain here is refused had escaped to an Asian women’s have to try to convince some refuges in most cases. Recently we made a refuge but was tracked down by her to take on a woman who has representa-tion to the Home Office husband and stabbed to death in front immigra-tion problems. There are very about the need to change immigration of her children. In these cases we tried few refuges in a position to do that. laws—the need to abolish the one- to highlight the shortfalls within the Where there are such resources year rule, the need available, we try and get a woman to a to review all the refuge and then maybe campaign for immigration rules so her to remain here. Often we ar; put in that these battered a situation where we have to say, “Go women are not back and get your stay and ihen move denied rights which out.” We are in a dilemma because we other women have. obvi-ously want to help the woman The government but she has very few options. If she response has been, is lucky, she may have relatives here “Yes, we obviously who will help. don’t want any We did win one campaign, woman to suffer, but however. An Asian woman was being at the same time we deported to Pakistan. She had been are not prepared to raped by a Pakistani man who is a do much. Each case British citizen, but she found it very will be considered difficult to go to the Pakistani on its own merit.” In authorities about it because you need fact, the four independent male witnesses to government has not The Balwant Kaur campaign

22 MANUSHI community—the need for exposing The Asian community was very down. (Rates are a way of raising local domestic violence and refusing to be hostile because it felt very threatened money for councils and other local silent on the issue. about what we were doing. The right- expenses). In Krishna Sharma’s case, we wing sections of the community said Most of the Asian councils were borrowed from the Indian women’s that we were home-wreckers, that we male Asian councils; their views were movement. We picketed outside the were an alien force, that we weren’t very much in line with the Indian husband’s house and we Asian, that we were westernised, that Workers’ Association. The Labour demonstrated through Southall. we were outsiders and, therefore, what council held the view that they must These were cam-paigns led by women we had to say wasn’t legitimate to the listen to what the community had to who had gone through violence community. say. It was assumed that there are no themselves. The idea was to turn the On the other hand, the more liberal divisions within that community and concept of shame on its headand say anti-racists would advise us to that what the leaders of the community thatit is not dishonourable for women maintain a silence on domestic said was what the community wanted. to leave violent partners; it’s more violence because if we talked about They didn’t recognise that there are dishonourable for a commu-nity to the issue within the Asian power divisions, that the leaders are condemn women who try to communities we would create a racist the most powerful, the most leave.They are the ones who should backlash. In fact, sections of the left conservative, the most patriarchal be ashamed; they are the ones who forces who don’ t represent the should be condemned by our interests of women and other community and society and not the vulnerable groups. women. Women get shunned and For the Labour council, it was a castigated if they leave their husbands way of being anti-racist, a way of because it is seen as a blemish on the being liberal and tolerant of other honour of their fami-lies. What we are cultures. This is the multi cultural saying is we should condemn the view—people who say that they are right people. That was the first time in anti-racist and do not intervene this country that the issue of domestic because to do so would be racist. violence exploded publicly within the They say: “We tolerate and respect Asian communities. Above all, in your religion and culture. We live in a Balwant Kaur’s case, we wanted to multi cultural socii ty and we have no make sure that the criminal justice right, therefore, to intervene in ycur system recognised that this was a culture and tell you how to do things. crime. Domestic violence is often seen You have your own way of doing as a private issue in which the tilings.” As a result, we often have husband has a right to do what he problems with professionals like wants because his wife is his property. social workers who may not want to In the case of Balwant Kaur, her Meena Patel, a worker at Southhall intervene to help women who are hus-band was taken to trial and the Black Sisters facing domestic violence or who are defehse argued that it was not as group even used some of the rhetoric being forced into arranged marriages. serious as £ny other murder because of the right to condemn us. The Indian We mobilised women and showed it was a domes-tic murder. It was an Workers’ Association, for instance, that there was support for us within attempt to trivialise the killing as if it accused us of being involved in a the community. The women lobbied was a pri-vate domestic matter and not conspiracy against the very fabric of the council and said to them, “Where a crime. Women in this country had Asian culture. They tried to close our will we go for help? We need the been campaigning to get domestic centre down by trying to persuade the centre. If you are an equal violence recognised as a criminal local authority, which was a Labour opportunities council, what about offence. We picketed the courts to council at the time, to withdraw our your equal opportunities as far as make sure it was recognised as a crime. funding. The threat at that time was women are concerned?” We then In that case, we were successful. The very real because the Labour council managed to save the centre because husband was convicted of murder. was looking at ways to make cuts. it would have been too politi-cally What was the reaction of the Asian They were under pressure from the embarrassing for the Labour council community to your campaign? central government to keep their rates to cut us.

NUMBER 80 (January-February 1994) Could you tell us about your for her to win support, we had to build women may respond a little later in-volvement in the precedent setting a general consensus. We began that because they’re not in a position to case of Kiranjit Ahluwalia work after her conviction. respond immediately—they’re cowed whomurdered her husband after Around July 1990 another woman down, they’re intimidated, they know suffering years of violence? who had killed her husband, Sara what the response is going to be. In We met Kiranjit in late 1989 just Thornton, had gone to appeal and her this country, the law on provocation before her trial. She’d been living in appeal had been rejected. Just after says that if there’s a time gap between Crawley in West Sussex. Kiranjit’s her appeal had been dismissed, there the act of provocation and the act of main concern at that time was her was a case of a man who had kicked retaliation, then you’ve had time to children. She was worried about who his alcoholic wife to death and he was cool off, calm down, premeditate. Our was going to look after them, their allowed to go free. And here was Sara argument was that you can become future and so on. One of our main arguing in her appeal that she had increasingly desperate. The woman concerns was that she have good legal faced months of abuse and violence may have tried other options. Kiranjit representation on something as but had not been successful in got two court injunctions that didn’t serious as murder. However, we proving provocation. As a protest, work. Sara called the police several weren’t in a position to change her she went on hunger strike. The media times. They had tried other options legal representatives at the time picked this up. They looked at the but these hadn’t worked. So when be-cause her trial date was very close. injustice of having, on the one hand, they killed, they killed out of She had already changed one set of a man who had kicked his wife to desperation. They had boiled over and solicitors and that had taken a very death being allowed to go free, and not necessarily cooled down. These long time so she was reluctant to on the other, a woman sitting in prison were our arguments for the reforming change them again. on a mandatory life sentence for killing of the law on provocati«n. In the trial, obviously, the whole her violent partner. It added to the When the appeal came up, the issue of domestic violence— campaign around battered women court quashed Kiranjit’s conviction questions such as why it was difficult who kill. and ordered a retrial. However, she for a woman to escape, why domestic The campaign continued. We was actually released before the retrial violence affects Asian women in picketed the Home Office. We joined in September 1992 because the Crown particular so badly— wasn’t well up with another group called Justice Prosecution Service, which is the represented by the solicitors. We tried for Women, which formed around prosecuting body in this country, approaching the solicitors to provide Sara Thornton. We were campaigning used their discretion eventually to support on these issues but they for Kiranjit and the wider issues accept a plea of manslaughter, which weren’ t interested in being briefed around homicide laws—what we felt is a lesser offence and which by us. So she was convicted. was wrong with the criminal justice recognised that she killed her husband We then became more involved in sys-tem and what we felt was wrong under mitigating circumstances. She her case. We changed solicitors and with the law on provocation in was released on diminished then worked towards an appeal. At particular. We felt that a requirement responsibility, which is the argument that time there hadn’t been any debate that you’ve got to respond that she was so depressed that she in this country about battered women immediately to an act of provocation had not been in full control of what who kill. Certain legal academics had was unreasonable. We said battered she was doing. been discussing the homicide laws women weren’t in a position to act However, we were using a dual and the shortfalls within them, but immediately because they know from defence. We said there was there hadn’t been a wide generalised past experience that the man is violent. diminished responsibility and there cam-paign around battered women They know that if they act was provoca-tion. What had who had been killing their violent immediately, they can be beaten up happened in the Court of Appeal was partners. There had certainly been even worse or killed. They may that the way the Lord Chief Justice debate taking place in other countries respond later, when the man is made the ruling had the effect of like America. We looked towards temporarily notas strong, for example, actually reforming the law on America for information, for political when he’s drunk or asleep. Kiranjit provocation. He said that any time as well as legal arguments about how killed her husband when he was gap is not necessarily a cooling off to construct her case. We had to asleep; Sara killed her husband when period; it could be a boiling over reconstruct it because in order for an he was dozing and drunk. period and, therefore, one does not appeal to be successful and in order Women in America had said that have to respond immediately to an act

24 MANUSHI of provocation. community than we have ever had. What we’ ve been doing since There was an amazing kind of support The same study found then is lobbying. We made for Kiranjit. The Indian Workers’ that Asian women in representations to the Home Affairs As-sociation (IWA), which at one time Britain are nine times Select Committee and various people, had wanted to close us down, even more likely to kill saying that now that the change has held a public support meeting in themselves by setting taken place in the courts and in case Southall before Kiranjit was released. law, it should be reflected in the Py ara Khabra, who was the head of themselves on fire. It is statute—it should be reinforced by the IWA at that time, and who is now believed that these were Parliament. Although the Home the Member of Parliament for Southall, probably imitations of Sati. Affairs Select Committee has actually publicly announced that we supported our demand for reform in need to change the law. I think it was depression which may make them the law on provocation, the the fact of women campaigning which more likely to commit suicide. govern-ment is resisting it because forced them to acknowledge that Other studies have shown that a they are saying that it will open the domestic violence is a problem. The lotof Asian migrantcommunities have floodgates and create a licence to Asian women’s movement has really high suicide rates. For example, in Fiji, kill—more re-venge killings and so on. grown in this country. After Kiranjit’s What we are saying is that the law case, far more women have been the suicide rate among the migrant should be flex-ible enough to include cam-paigning around domestic Asian community is quite high. A lot the experiences of battered women. violence. of the women who come to us have Men have found it very easy to argue attempted suicide. Cutting their wrists Recent studies in Britain suggest that provocation be-cause they are in a is a very common way but studies the suicide rate among Asian women position to respond immediately— have shown that the two main ways is much higher than itisfor women they are physically stronger. And the in which Asian women commit suicide of British origin. What lies be hind courts have been very sympathetic are burning or hanging. these figures? to men when they’ve argued, “I killed Asian women are under a lot of Do you think these are imitations of my wife because she was nagging pressure to conform to traditional Sari? me” or “She was having an affair and roles. Then there’s a whole range of Well, it’s very hard to give a full I couldn’t stand it.” Yet when women social pressures or contributing explanation as to why they’d use fire say, “Well, look, I was provoked and I factors such as sexual abuse and but I think it’s also linked with the killed him later be-cause he was violence and the problem of leaving a notion of purity. You ‘enow the battering me,” it doesn’t get the same minority community and going out reli-gious concept of purification sympathy. into a hostile society where they face through fire—the test of fire. But Women very rarely kill, anyway. racism. All this adds to their that’s theory. We’ve had a recent case In most cases, they either get killed, of a woman who threw petrol over they tolerate the situation or they leave A recent study from herself and killed herself in the the relationship. The figuresof women Northwest and Northeast bathroom. We just had an inquest into killing theirpartners is very low. They her death and it was found that she are not going to rush out and kill their Thames Health was so unhappy in her marriage that husbands if the law changes. In fact, Authorities reveals that she felt that she had no option but to in New South Wales, where the law Asian women aged kill herself. on provocation was reformed in 1982, between 16 and 24 are research has shown, among other Could these suicides, in fact, be things, that it hasn’t lead to an three times more likely to murder, as they often are in India? in-crease in killing; nor are people commit suicide than white You mean dowry deaths? No, in get-ting off lightly. The government women of the same age. this country we don’t have as many doesn’t have any evidence to back Between the ages of 25 dowry deaths, although women do up what it is saying. get harassed for dowry. That, and 34 the suicide rate is however, is often a reason for domestic What was the reaction of the Asian twice as high. Over the violence. community in this case? age of 34, however, there What was interesting this time was Can you explain the whole that we had far more support from the is almost no difference. phenomenon of the “bounty hunter”

NUMBER 80 (January-February 1994) and why an increasing number of Black. The pressure now is to identify You’ve got “bounty hunters” young Asian women are running ourselves along our religious at-tacking institutions that have been away from home? identities, Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, set up—like going to refuges and A man called Tahir Mahmoud, Christian and so on. This is a hostels and dragging women out. known as the “bounty hunter” dangerous movement because it And there’s not just the one “bounty because he is allegedly hired by Asian means greater segregation and hunter” up in Huddersfield—where families to track down sisters or separation and the forma-tion of more TahirMahmoud is based—he also daughters who have run away from bigoted identities along reactionary uses networks of mini-cabdrivers, home. ideas of what is accept-able shopkeepers, people working in the Among Asian women who run behaviour. This kind of thinking is social security offices and others to away, the main issues tend to be influencing all communities. find these women. There are also other forced arranged marriages as well as The SBS and another group we kinds of gangs of men like the Shere sexual and physical abuse within the helped found, Women Against Punjab in Birmingham which has home. Then there are young women Fundamentalism, which is a group of existed for years. The gangs are very who want to have their own women of all racial and religious active in the north east of England relationships. For example, a Sikh girl backgrounds who’ve come together and in the Midlands. may have a Muslim boyfriend. to oppose religious fundamentalism, Then there areother ways in which There are other kinds of pressures are looking at the experiences of the fundamentalists’ agenda has that these women face. One of them women in particular. The attack affected women’s lives. They want to is the rise of religious fundamentalism, against women is central for all these take over women’s institutions so that which puts pressure on women to religions. Women are seen as the they can have greater control. One re-turn to more traditional roles. That’s transmitters of culture in the long- way is to get funding and take over linked to the rise of the phenomenon term, from one generation to the next. women’s refuges. For example, for the of the “bounty hunter” which is about Consequently, there’s a battle to first time, (here is a Muslim women’s gangs of men trying topolice women’s control women’s hearts, minds and refuge set up in the east of London. lives. They are the moral police. They bodies. There is also the demand for separate go and hunt women down, intimidate them and force them back. They get paid or don’t getpaid—it doesn ‘t matter. The point is, they still want to do it because they want to control women’s behaviour. I think that’s linked to the much wider issue of the rise of religious fundamentalism—if not religious fundamentalism, then the reinforce-ment of very conservative and ortho-dox thinking, which is not only taking place in the Asian communities but is having a much wider effect. You’ve got the growth of the New Right and the growth of very conservative thinking even among the mainstream British society. Religious fundamen-talism is on the rise internationally and in all religions. In this country, the Rushdie affair was a kind of symbolic stage in how people were looking to reidentify themselves internally and externally. It’s a reidentification along religious lines. Let’s say that 10 years ago we may have wanted to call ourselves

26 MANUSHI religious schools. The idea is to women who were just too frightened conservative government and the left segregate girls or take them out of to leave because they thought they’d is in disarray. state co-education schools and get tracked down. I spoke to a few The fundamental!sts give hope to indoctrinate them from a very young women who were living in a hostel people, particularly to young men age. One of the reasons behind this is and who had been harassed by the who are disillusioned and who are that they are very threat-ened by the “bounty hunter”. They said they were facing unemployment and racism. women’s movement. In their mind, too terrified to pursue criminal They may turn to fundamentalism girls from their community are being charges. They have enough problems as a solution to negative self-identity. corrupted by western influ-ences and, just trying to stay in hiding and You also see some women take on that therefore, they want to be able to bring keeping away from their families. The identity because they see it as an anti- them up in their own culture and programme discouragedthem further racist, anti-imperialist identity and religion. It is largely women who have from seeking help. something more positive. So I think taken up this battle against things are getting worse and they’ll get much harder. fundamentalism. But again, some of Are you optimistic or pessimistic What is very encouraging is that the criticism that is directed against about the future of organisations while that is happening, there’s the us by the anti-racists is that we are like yours? refuelling racism and that Muslims are resistance movement as well. You’ve I don’t know. I need time to think under attack. got far more Asian women becoming about it. I think the situation is active around domestic violence, Why don’t the women who have becom-ing worse. Not only are we Turkish women taking up issues in been abducted by the “bounty struggling to get money and funding their communities, Asian women hunters” report their abduction to to keep even basic services but forming new groups. There’s a group the police? women’s lives are becoming harder. in Manchester who have set The police said they have People are becoming poorer; there’s themselves up as Manchester Black inter-viewed some of them. However, rising racism and fascism. For the first Sisters. So there’s a lot happening as they say it is very hard for them to time this year, we had a fascist well. There’s a revival in the movement pursue charges because they need councillor elected to the east of as well as a backlash. But we’ve still a enough evidence—they need London. At present there’s a long way to go. witnesses who will come forward and give evidence in court. A lot of the women are too frightened to do so. You’ve got to remember these are very tightly-knit communities and it’s very easy to find young women and they are very, very frightened. The TV programme which ex-posed the “bounty hunter” made the situation worse because they presented the whole case only through the eyes of violent men. They only heard what Mahmoud had to say; they listened to what husbands and fathers had to say. The TV programme never got a woman to come forward with her own perspec-tive. Moreover, they never talked about the options available to women who wanted to get away from their families. They made it look as if no matter what you did, you couldn’t get away. The programme was very sympathetic to violent men and, therefore, it was irre-sponsible. We had calls from

NUMBER 80 (January-February 1994)