September 29, 1995 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S14609 ask for 6, 7, minutes as in morning entitlement programs that are out of I do not think the Secretary or the business at this point. control—Medicare, Medicaid. I did not President should read anything more The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without say cut them, I said reform them. In into my statement than what I have objection, it is so ordered. addition, we must look at commodity said. It is pretty clear that I am not f price supports and a whole list of pro- running off in some kind of trepidation grams that are on automatic pilot. because we are being told about this A BALANCED BUDGET If we do not stop them and change need to extend the debt limit. For Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I them, they just spin, some at a 10-per- those who wonder about that debt want to talk a little bit about the bal- cent increase a year, some 12. We had limit extension, let me suggest—none anced budget that we have put forth Medicaid in some States, increasing as of which I advocate—but there are a and that we all worked so hard for—at much as 19 percent a year. I think we number of ways the Secretary of the least on this side of the aisle. I am had as high as a 28-percent increase in Treasury can pay some bills out there going to put it into the framework of one year in Medicaid—28 percent, auto- after that debt limit is extended, with- the Secretary of Treasury, Mr. Rubin, matic. Experts on the Federal budget out extending it. They know it. The talking to the American people and us know if you do not fix those and if your Secretary knows it. about that day sometime after October assumptions are not honest, then you There are at least four. A couple of 20, perhaps before November 15, in that have a budget that is smoke and mir- them have serious political ramifica- timeframe, when the debt limit that we rors, and ineffective. tions. A couple of them they could use. have imposed upon ourselves expires, Now, what I am saying to Members It may be they do not want to do that, and in order to borrow additional on the other side and others who will even when push comess to shove. But money, Congress has to act to raise listen is do not jump to the conclusion we do not want to abandon our bal- that debt limit. Essentially, that is that the most serious event is the day anced budget. And I am repeating, the being discussed with the American peo- that we do not extend the debt limit kind of balanced budget we are talking ple. I am not sure they all quite under- when it needs to be extended. about involves no optimistic economic stand what that means. Actually, an equally important day assumptions, no smoke and mirrors. It I want to, in a sense, respond as I see is coming when the President of the is entitlement reform that is con- it to the fear that the Secretary of the United States has to decide whether he sistent with what is happening to the Treasury is pushing across this land in wants to help us get a real—no smoke budget under current entitlement pro- terms of that debt limit day. and mirrors—entitlement reform budg- grams which, run unabated, have no re- First of all, Congress has never given et. Both of them are important events. lationship to what we can afford, just up the power to tell the President and I will not place one above the other merrily run along, causing the debt to those who work for him, like the Sec- because I believe we must do every- increase at $428 million a day. retary of Treasury how much they can thing we can this year—not next year, I yield the floor and I suggest the ab- borrow. Occasionally, it seemed kind of that is an election year; not 2 years sence of a quorum. strange to me because Congress passes from now; right now, this year. We The PRESIDING OFFICER. The all these laws to spend money, and ev- have to get a balanced budget, with no clerk will call the roll. erybody votes on those, and then when assumptions that are too optimistic, The assistant legislative clerk pro- it comes time to extend the debt, peo- and one that changes entitlement pro- ceeded to call the roll. Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, I ask ple say, ‘‘We will not extend the debt.’’ grams to reduce their ever dramatic in- unanimous consent that the order for But I am beginning to understand that creases. the quorum call be rescinded. power to control the debt limit is very Now, I cannot put it any better than The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without important, especially in this year and that. I am not suggesting I am for a de- objection, it is so ordered. years like this one. fault. I am suggesting that is an impor- The Secretary of the Treasury is say- tant event. I believe we have to put the f ing to us, ‘‘You’d better agree to ex- other event right up there alongside it. THE BUDGET AND SPENDING tend that debt limit because if you do We have to serve notice on the Sec- Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, while not, something very ominous might retary of the Treasury and the Presi- we are trying to arrange a vote here on happen.’’ Then he talks about such dent that we are not just going to run this important amendment, I would things as default and we will not be out on this balanced budget. We think just revisit what our distinguished able to pay interest on some bonds. we have done a job. We think it is posi- chairman of the Budget Committee was First of all, let me make it very clear tive. We think it is right. talking about: the budget and spend- from the standpoint of the Senator Let me close by saying the reason ing. from New Mexico, who put this budget that this is a big event is because for Mr. President, the present budget for resolution together, and look at it the first time in 31 years, elected offi- the fiscal year is $1.518 trillion, in from my vantage point as to the seri- cials are saying, ‘‘We care about the fu- other words, one trillion five hundred ousness of that contention on the part ture. It is not about today only. It is eighteen billion dollars. The budget of the Secretary that we had better be about the future. And we care about under consideration, of which this prepared to let that go up. our children, not ourselves. We care State, Justice, Commerce appropria- Now, I see it this way. I think there about those yet unborn as much as our- tion is a part thereof, is $1.602 trillion. are two major events that are coming selves.’’ If we really believe that, we So, one trillion six hundred two billion together in the month of November. cannot continue to spend at what is dollars means spending is going up $84 One is described by the Secretary of currently, believe it or not, $482 mil- billion. the Treasury with all of those ominous lion a day—a day. That is the amount Which reminds me of my distin- tones about what will happen; the we are adding to the debt every day— guished chairman of the subcommittee, other is whether we are going to get a $482 million. That is a lot. the Senator from Texas, always talk- balanced budget—no smoke and mir- Who will pay it? If we are standing ing about those in the wagon who are rors—and entitlement reform. up saying we do not care, well, some- going to have to get outside the wagon Frankly, many people are now ex- body is going to pay it. Do you know and start pulling it. The funny thing, perts on this Federal budget. Interest who is going to? The next generation, like Pogo, ‘‘We have met the enemy,’’ rates out there on bonds affect our with a lost standard of living, because we have met those in the wagon, ‘‘and standard of living because it affects in- too much of the income has to come it is us.’’ We have been spending lit- terest rates on many things. Those who back up here and pay for our prof- erally hundreds of billions more than look at that know precisely what is a ligacy. we are taking in each year. While the balanced budget and what is not a bal- That is not right. That is a big event budget itself increases some $84 billion, anced budget. for adult leaders. It is just as big an interest costs increase $348 billion, or Mr. President, we know precisely event as the event that is closing upon $1 billion a day, as has just been re- what the big ingredient in a balanced us on whether we increase the debt ferred to by the distinguished chair- budget is. The big one is reforming the limit, to let us borrow more or not. man of the Budget Committee.

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If we can pay our bills, develop a can actually eliminate the deficit by Once again, we are going through the competitive trade policy, cut out this cutting spending. That is absolutely tortures of big talk about how we are nonsense about free trade and join the false. It is going to take taxes. really going to balance this budget by real world and get a competitive trade They do not want to say the word the year—they put it out where nobody policy—Cordell Hull said reciprocal ‘‘taxes’’ around this town except to cut can get their hands on it—2002; 7 years trade policy—then we will begin to sur- them, because a little poll you take, hence. We used to do it in a year. Then vive and rebuild this economy and whether it is a Republican poll or a we went to 3 years. Then we went to 5 clean up our cities and get rid of the Democratic poll, says that is political years. This crowd over here has it for 7 drug and crime problems and come for- poison. A hot-button item is what they years. And the President has it for 10 ward like a great America that I came call it. So what you do is you get out years. You meet another Congress and into in my early years. With this plan, these programs now and you are for the family and you are they will have it in 15 years and up, up have been taken over by the pollsters against taxes. You are against crime and away. and we are going right straight down and for prisons and on and on, this non- But they do not want to write that. They write in a very reverent, respect- the tubes. We are talking nonsense. sensical charade we are engaged in. The media is going along with it. They The truth is, having been in the vine- ful, studious term—the media does— think it is great progress. It is not yards here, trying our dead-level best that the present budget on which we great progress—a half a hair cut—be- are now torturing would balance in the with others. We tried a freeze. Then we cause we had that great progress last year 2002. That is absolutely false. It tried a freeze and spending cuts. Then year and we had that great progress we tried a freeze, spending cuts and has no chance of doing it. Simple arith- the year before. We had the great loophole closings. Then we tried a metic—it is not going to take care of progress the year before that. Like freeze, spending cuts, loophole closings the interest payments. The interest Tennessee Ernie Ford, ‘‘another day and a value-added tax. And then just payments are $1 billion a day. There is older and deeper in debt.’’ The debt most recently, we opposed new pro- no plan here. The cuts? You take the continues to go and grow and go and grams that we cannot afford— consummate cuts right across the grow. It took us 200 years of our his- AmeriCorps. board, there is not $1 billion a day to tory before Ronald Reagan came to I stated yesterday the AmeriCorps get on top of the increases. town. When he came to town after that Program took away 346,000 student Like the famous character in ‘‘Alice 200 years and 38 Presidents, Republican loans in order to fund 20,000 to 25,000 in Wonderland’’, in order to stay where and Democrat, we were less than $1 student loans. Actually, it is the Fed- we are, we have to run as fast as we trillion. And $903 billion was the deficit eral Government cost of some $20,000 can. In order to get ahead, we have to and debt. We had with President Ford per student on AmeriCorps, plus $6,000 run even faster. an economic summit, and everything from private and local government re- That is the reality. Nobody wants to else of that kind after the OPEC cartel sources, so it is $26,000. I remember talk about it because the poison in pol- crisis, and what have you. When Presi- when I got out of law school, if I could itics is taxes. I will never forget, back dent Reagan came to town, he said, have gotten paid $26,000 I would have in 1949, 1950, when Jimmy Byrnes— ‘‘First I am going to balance the budg- jumped for joy. I would have jumped former Senator Byrnes, Secretary of et in a year,’’ and then said, ‘‘Oops— for joy. State, Supreme Court Justice, Gov- this is way worse than I thought. It is I can tell you now—voluntarism? At ernor—he had just come in as Gov- going to take 3 years. We are going to $26,000 a head, you call it volunteer? ernor. I had a little committee. I said, get rid of waste, fraud, and abuse.’’ Let us cut out the charade and get ‘‘This is South Carolina, our little low- We had the Grace Commission. I est per-capita income State next to down to brass tacks and realize it is served on the Grace Commission. I got going to be way, way more than any Mississippi. We have ground to a halt. me a picture here earlier this year, but kind of spending cuts. We need money. We are going to have Peter Grace and I started imple- The idea of a broad-based consump- to put in a sales tax.’’ menting his savings. We had to report tion tax I proposed over 10 years ago, We could not even get the senators to annually. By 1989 we had implemented almost 15 years ago. Now they are meet with us. We just had House mem- some 85 percent of the Grace program. copying the idea to replace—I have bers. I chaired that House group. We But then we stopped, and we quit re- been through about seven tax reforms sold the idea to Governor Byrnes, and porting. in my 28, almost 29 years. The need is he put it over. Mind you me, we never But the truth is the Budget Commit- not to replace; the need is to replenish. could have done it without the Gov- tees have come along. Republicans and What we need is more money, not dif- ernor’s leadership. But we put in a Democrats have voted for taxes in the ferent money. So the flat tax is now a sales tax at that particular time for Budget Committee. We got eight votes wave—a hot-button item, again in the public education, so that then, when for a value-added tax because back 5 poll, where we are just going to do it we went out and solicited industrial de- years ago, we could see the coming de- one way and replace the income and re- velopment in South Carolina, we could fault and the debt growing up, up, and place the corporate and replace every- talk not only of good schools, but fis- away. thing, every other kind of tax. The cally-responsible government. So now after Reaganomics, voodoo, truth of the matter is, rather than cut- We did not balance that budget in riverboat gamble, now we have voodoo ting taxes, we need to increase the South Carolina until I finally came in, all over again. We are talking about it taxes. And the bill to increase the in 1958. I again raised taxes over the again by the very author of voodoo, the taxes is presently, and has been, in the objections. What we did was we got the chairman of the Finance Committee. Finance Committee for the past 4 or 5 first triple A credit rating from Texas That started off as—what is that foot- years. I have introduced it right regu- all the way up to Maryland. So, as a ball player’s name? Kemp. Yes. That is larly. They quit having hearings on it. young Governor, I had, as a calling right. Kemp-Roth. I remember when I will never forget the one hearing we card, a triple A credit rating, which the distinguished majority leader said had 5 years ago with Senator Bentsen South Carolina has now lost, again we are not going that direction. He as chairman. As I was leaving the Fi- with this item of growth—growth. And said, ‘‘You cannot go that way. We nance Committee room, a couple of the we are going to have a property tax cut have got to start paying the bills.’’ But Finance Committee members said, ‘‘If and we are not going to pay the bills the Presidential political pressures we had a secret ballot we would pass and we are going to put the nuclear fa- that come from GINGRICH to go to that thing out unanimously. We need it cility up for sale and start storing nu- GRAMM to come to DOLE have got us all

VerDate Aug 31 2005 06:59 May 28, 2008 Jkt 041999 PO 00000 Frm 00038 Fmt 0624 Sfmt 0634 J:\ODA15\1995_F~1\S29SE5.REC S29SE5 mmaher on MIKETEMP with SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS September 29, 1995 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — SENATE S14611 talking nonsense here on the floor of ernment itself, take the departments an unprecedented assault on the rights the U.S. Congress. We are talking and domestic discretionary spending, it of our most impoverished citizens. It again in the Finance Committee of is right at $273 billion. We could double would eliminate the Legal Services devastating health care. Last year, that budget, if we were not wasting it Corporation, which Congress estab- they were saying, ‘‘Oh. What is the on the interest cost on the national lished more than 20 years ago with the matter? We have the best health care debt. active support of President Richard on the planet.’’ Last year, we had a That interest is what I call ‘‘taxes.’’ Nixon. survey by the very group they quote This crowd that says they are not And though it would authorize the this year that said Medicare was going against taxes is really for taxes. There Attorney General to make civil legal broke by the year 2001. This year they are two things in life: Death, and taxes. assistance block grants to the States are saying it is going broke by the year You cannot avoid them. There is a through the Office of Justice Pro- 2002. Now they say what they are try- third thing. It is the interest cost on grams, it would not earmark one penny ing to do is save it. the national debt. It cannot be avoided. of funds for this program and it would Well, they come in with a contract So what we are doing talking about impose unprecedented and excessive re- that increases the deficit and Medicare no, we are not going to increase taxes, strictions on the ability of legal serv- some $25 billion because, yes, without is, yes, we are going to cut taxes. The ices programs to represent poor people. that contract crowd, we voted to in- truth of the matter is we are going to There are compelling reasons why crease taxes on Social Security, liquor, cut taxes in order to increase the taxes the legal services program should be cigarettes, gasoline, and everything more so the debt can go up so the in- administered by an independent Fed- else and cut spending $500 billion which terest costs or the taxes on that debt eral corporation. First, and foremost, has the stock market and the economy, go up. You pay it, not avoid it, and you litigation to protect the legal rights of they say, going up and away. But the do not get anything more. poor people often antagonizes powerful truth is that of that $25 billion that we But we are in the wagon. All of us are interests in the community. President got from the increase in Social Secu- in the wagon, and the children and the Nixon recognized this when he intro- rity taxes, we allocated it to Medicare grandchildren, are hopefully going to duced what later became the Legal and they said, ‘‘Abolish that.’’ No. We pull it. I hope the country just does not Services Corporation Act. He said, do not believe in that. They are play- come down in fiscal chaos. But what- The program is concerned with social ing the game, the pollster proposition ever it is, we are in the wagon, and we issues and is thus subject to unusually of Social Security and saying that we are raising taxes every day $1 billion. strong political pressures * * * if we are to are trying to frighten the American We have a tax increase on automatic preserve the strength of the program we people. pilot in this Government of $1 billion a must make it immune to political pressures The debt now has gone not just to $1 day. We are talking about cutting and make it a permanent part of our system trillion as it did in 1981, but to $2 tril- taxes. That is how ludicrous, ridicu- of justice. lion, to $3 trillion, to $4 trillion. It is lous, and outrageous this whole rhet- Many of my colleagues will recall right now at $4.9 trillion, and it is oric has gotten in the treatment by the that Federal support for civil legal going up $5 trillion and on and away, media itself. They do not want to re- services for the poor was first provided because of what? We are in the wagon. port the truth. They do not want to re- by the Office of Economic Opportunity The kids, the children, the grand- port the facts. They go along with the [OEO] and later by the Community children are the ones pulling the political charade. Services Administration, each of which wagon. We are acting like the tax- I yield the floor. was part of the executive branch. But payers are the ones pulling the wagon. Mr. KENNEDY addressed the Chair. in the early 1970’s, the Federal program Well, they can hardly move the wagon. The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. became the subject of heated political The wagon is drifting back. It is not SHELBY). The Senator from Massachu- debate. being pulled. It is gradually going setts. During this period, President Nixon’s backward into debt, and we are on f Commission on Executive Reorganiza- tion concluded that the legal services board. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, JUS- For the last 15 years, the Senator program should not be maintained in TICE, AND STATE, THE JUDICI- from New Mexico and I have been the executive branch and that a new ARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES working in the Budget Committee, and structure should be created to admin- APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1996 it has gotten worse and worse. The ister the program. rhetoric has gotten better. We really The Senate continued with the con- Congress responded to that rec- have them fooled—everybody out in sideration of the bill. ommendation with passage of the the land, particularly in this editorial AMENDMENT NO. 2819 Legal Services Corporation Act of 1974. column crowd saying we are making Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I rise In its Statement of Findings and Dec- progress, that we are going to balance in support of the amendment offered by laration of Purpose, Congress found the budget. the Senator from New Mexico to re- that ‘‘to preserve its strength, the We are not even near it. We are doing store funds for the Legal Services Cor- legal services program must be kept some cutting. We are devastating pro- poration. free from the influence of or use by it grams. But we are not balancing any The words inscribed on the wall of of political pressures’’; and ‘‘attorneys budget because we will not do all of the the Supreme Court building capture providing legal assistance must have above, and all of the above includes the idea at the very heart of our con- full freedom to protect the best inter- taxes. And we need that tax increase stitutional democracy: ‘‘Equal Justice ests of their clients in keeping with allocated to the deficit, and the debt. Under Law.’’ * * * [professional responsibility] and Let us get on top of this fiscal can- The Constitution guarantees to every the high standards of the legal profes- cer, excise it once and for all, and then man and woman in this country the sion.’’ start spending the amount of money same rights and privileges before the An independent Federal corporation that we need on Government itself law. Indeed, we require Federal judges remains the best way today to assure rather than on past profligacy and to take an oath to render justice equal- that powerful constituencies do not waste. If you had a $74.8 billion interest ly to the poor and to the rich. pressure legal services lawyers not to cost in 1980 and in 1996 in the Presi- But our courts are largely powerless protect their clients’ legal rights. A dent’s budget, it is $346 billion, that to render justice to persons who are block grant program simply cannot in- means the interest cost alone has gone too poor to afford a lawyer to assist sulate these lawyers from political up to $273 billion. That is exactly the them in protecting their legal rights. pressure. level of domestic discretionary spend- And a constitutional right without a Nothing in the bill requires States to ing. You take Congress, the courts, the remedy is no constitutional right at apply for block grant funds. Nothing in Presidency, you take the Department all. the bill prohibits States from denying of Commerce, Agriculture, Interior, The bill reported by the Senate Ap- block grant funds to programs that Treasury—go right on across the Gov- propriations Committee would unleash challenge unlawful State actions.

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