REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF COURT

Douglas, Tuesday. January 20, 1959

Present: The Governor (Sir Ambrose The Additional Import Duties (No. 5) Flux Dundas, C.S.I.). In the () Order, 1958. (Govern- Council: The Lord Bishop (Rt. Rev. ment Circular 65/58.) Benjamin Pollard, T.D., D.D., M.Sc.), The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. Deemster S. J. Kneale, 0.B.E., Deemster 13) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. B. W. Macpherson, the Attorney- (Government Circular No. 94/58.) General (Mr G. E. Moore), Sir Ralph The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. Stevenson, G.C.M.G., Messrs J. F. 14) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. Crellin, 0.B.E.. M.C., Alfred J. Teare, (Government Circular No. 95/58.) 1VI.B.E., J. H. Nicholls and E. B. C. Farrant, M.B.E., with Mr E. R. St. A. The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. Davies, M.B.E., Government Secretary 15) (Isle of Man) Order. 1958. and Clerk to the Council. In the-Keys: (Government Circular No. 96/58.) The Speaker (Sir Joseph Qualtrough, The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. C.B.E.), Messrs • H. K. Corlett, T. F. 16) (Isle of Man) Order. 1958, Corkhill, E. N. Crowe, H. H. Radcliffe, (Government Circular No. 97/58.) H. C. Kerruish, Lt-Cdr. J. L. Quine, The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. Messrs J. C. Nivison, W. E. Quayle, H. 17) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. S. Cain, A. H. Simcocks, C. C. McFee, (Government Circular No. 98/58.) T. A. Coole, G. C. Gale, A. S. Kelly, A. The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. Cecil Teare, J. Edward Callister, T. A. 18) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. Corkish. R. C. Stephen, .1, M. Cain, (Government Circular No. 99/58.) 0.11E_ W. B. Kaneen, E. C. Irving and J. B. Bolton, with Mr F. B. Johnson. The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. M.A., Secretary to the House of Keys 19) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. and Clerk to Tynwald, (Government Circular No. 100/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 20) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. PAPERS LAID BEFORE THE COURT (Government Circular No. 101/58.) The Governor: I have the honour to The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. lay the following before the Court:- 21) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circular No. 102/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. (No. 11) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958 22) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circular No. 52/58.) (Government Circular No. 103/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. (No. 12) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. 23) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circular No. 55/58.) (Government Circular No. 104/58.) The Additional Import Duties (No. 4) The Composite Goods (Amendment) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Govern- (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Govern- ment Circular No. 64/58.) ment Circular No. 105/58.)

Papers Laid Before the Court. 264 TYNWALD COURT. JANUARY 20, 1959 •

The Safeguarding of Industries ROAD TRAFFIC BILL, 1959 (Exemption) (No. 5) (Isle of Man) The Governor: Item 2, the Road Order, 1958. (Government Circular Traffic Bill, 1959. I call on the No. 76/ 58.) Attorney-General. The Import Duties (Exemptions) The Attorney-General: Your Excel- (No. 11) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. lency, I beg to move the following reso- (Government Circular No. 52/58.) lution standing in my name:— The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. That the Road Traffic. Bill, 1959, be amended (12) (Isle of Man Order, 1958. on the lines suggested by Her Majesty's Government and re-signed. (Government Circular No. 55/58.) Hon. members will recollect that this Order of the Isle of Man Local Govern- Bill was signed about November and ment Board extending the Braddan representations have been made to us Refuse Disposal District. by the Home Office since to consider one Report of the Committee of Tynwald on small amendment. As a result of the Motor Mileage Allowances. time which has passed since the Bill was signed there are also some consequen- Tourist Accommodation Regulations, tial amendments. The first is that in 1958. four places the year 1958 will now read Local Government Board's approval, "1959." The second is that in printing on page 16 of the-Bill the word "that" dated December 19th, 1958, to the appeared twice where it should only f ol I owing Petitions have appeared once. The surplus (1) Mayor, Aldermen and Bur- "that" has been deleted. Also on page gesses of the Borough of Douglas, for 16 the words "a constable" must be authority to borrow a sum not deleted from clause 1 as altered during the progress of the Bill in the branches. exceeding £900 at a rate of interest not Hon. members will recollect that when exceeding £5 per centum per annum, the Bill was first submitted it contained repayable within 15 years, for the a provision that a constable or other purpose of defraying the cost of pro- person authorised by the Highway viding and laying a new water main Board could erect temporary traffic to supply cottages at Cronkbourne signs. The Keys felt it was desirable Village, Braddan, with a public water that it should be only a person acting supply. under the authority of the Highway (2) Peel Town Commissioners for Board and the word "constable" was de- authority to borrow a sum not exceed- leted. Unfortunately it was not then ing £300 at a rate of interest not realised that the word appeared later exceeding £5 per centum per annum, in the section and that has now been repayable within 10 years, for the deleted. Finally, again during the purpose of defraying the Petitioners' progress of the Bill in the Keys, clause portion of the cost of erecting a new 18,. sub-clause 3, as originally drafted, groyne on the Peel foreshore. varied the conditions with regard to forfeiture of licences. The clause was (3) Peel Town Commissioners for not carried in the Keys and this meant authority to borrow a sum not ex- that there should have been a Conse- ceeding £450 at a rate of interest not quential amendment in the schedule exceeding £5 per centum per annum, where the provision repealing the exist- repayable within 10 years, for the ing procedure should be struck out, as purpose of defraying the Petitioners' the law remains the same with regard proportion of the cost of erecting four to disqualification of licences. I beg to shelters on Peel Promenade. move the resolution.

Road Traffic Bill, 1959. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 265

Deemster Kneale seconded, the reso- action have been stated and have lution was agreed and the Bill re-signed. been given full publicity in the Manx Press. For the benefit of the hon. member I will repeat them. TO INCOME TAX "The Isle of Man Harbour Board have ACT, 1058 had under consideration. for some con- siderable time the question of the The Governor: I have to announce to weight of vehicles permitted to use the Tynwald that in accordance with the swing bridges over the harbours at terms of section 2 of the Acts of Tyn- Douglas and Ramsey. These bridges wald (Emergency Promulgation) Act, were designed and built many years 1916, that the Royal Assent was given to before the type, speed and magnitude of the following Act on November 21st. present-day traffic was visualised, and 1958. in view of their age and consequent deterioration, the Board are now faced with major repairs and structural re- CLOSING OF SWING BRIDGES— placements, if modern traffic is to con- QUESTION BY MR A. C. TEARE tinue using these bridges. In order to avoid embarking on the very consider- The Governor: There is only one able expenditure involved, the Board question. I call on the hon. member for Ramsey. consider the most satisfactory course to pursue is to conserve both bridges for Mr A. C. Teare: May it please Your pedestrians' use only, and it is proposed Excellency, I beg to ask from my col- to make an Order to this effect in due league, the chairman of the Harbour course. The Board feel that this course Board, the questions standing in my would not impose undue hardship on name: (1) Is the chairman of the Har- users of vehicles, and in this way the bour Board aware of the concern occa- life of the present structures would be sioned by the announcement that the prolonged, and, serve for many years." Board proposes to make an Order closing to vehicular traffic the swing With regard to the second part of the bridges over the harbours at Douglas hon. member's question, property occu- and Ramsey, and what are the reasons piers on the other side of the Ramsey for taking this course? (2) in the case swing bridge I have spoken to have ex- of the Ramsey swing bridge—an impor- pressed approval of the proposed change tant link between North and South —with one or two exceptions. A fort- Ramsey—would not the proposed res- night ago "The Courier" ventilated the triction of its use have a prejudicial matter of the Ramsey swing bridge and effect on the North Promenade and practically invited comments. There Mooragh Park properties, and has the have been no letters of protest. The Harbour Board considered alternative Board have received none. I can only proposals to this retrograde step? conclude it is not generally considered that this will have a prejudicial effect. Mr Kelly: Your Excellency, in reply There is no question of any alternative to the first part of the hon. member's proposal in the minds of the Harbour question, I am not aware of the concern Board. Most reasonably minded occasioned by the announcement that motorists apparently realise it takes the Harbour Board proposes to make but a few seconds longer to go round an order closing to vehicular traffic the the Stone Bridge. The hon. member swing bridges over the harbours at must be aware that the question of Douglas and Ramsey. I would draw the safety is involved. The Ramsey swing hon. member's attention to the fact that bridge is very narrow, with a 3ft. 6in. the reasons actuating the contemplated pavement. It was never intended for

Royal Assent to Income Tax Act, 1958.—Closing of Swing Bridges—Question by Mr A. C. Teare, 266 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1950 . present-day fast moving motor traffic. Mr Kelly: in reply to the hon. This traffic is increasing enormously member, Your Excellency, we have no year by year, and since no hardship is record of any written complaints. We imposed on the motorist by compelling have been warned by these people that detour—there is every. sound reason unless we have a policeman or a bridge for confining the bridge to pedestrian master on duty all the time we will have use only. It is frequently crowded with trouble. There is no alternative. We visitors in the summer .months and it is potentially dangerous to have motor have not got a bridge master now. He traffic crossing the bridge from both died. (Laughter.) Furthermore, I directions. The hon. member describes want the member to know this. That the Board's proposal as a retrograde that bridge cannot take any more than step. It depends on the points of view. two tons at once. Some buses have You cannot sustain a horse-and-cart actually gone over the bridge, and we attitude in a motor-car age. From the have taken proceedings against them. safety factor alone anything we can do The floor is composed of wood—oak to protect pedestrians is surely progres- planks 3M. thick. We are not going to sive, not retrograde. If there had been watch it until there is a fatality or some- any strong feelings on the subject one gets seriously injured. 'think we would have heard about them. I can only conclude, Your Excellency, Mr Kerruish: Your Excellency, I that the hon. member's opposition has would like to ask the hon. member if he little foundation in fact. would agree that the Board have put Mr Crellin: Your Excellency, is it the many tons of tar macadam on the safety of pedestrians that the Harbour Ramsey swing bridge? Board are considering, or does the struc- Mr Kelly: None whatever, Your Excel- ture of the bridges make them unsatis- lency. There is bitumen on it. We even factory for motor traffic? take the paint off before it is re-painted. Mr Kelly: Your Excellency, in regard (Laughter.) to the Douglas swing bridge, we have been warned in the last few years, and Mr Kerruish: A supplementary ques- in the last few months, that unless we tion. Your Excellency, would the hon. prevent vehicles going over, it is going member inform the Court if it is not a to cost us £35,000 for a new bridge. fact that five tons of bitumen were put The Ramsey bridge is very narrow- on the bridge? The road at the Vollan 12ft. (iin. altogether. Motor-cars like was built to connect with the Bride the two Vauxhalls we tested, passing in Road in order to complete the circuit. each direction leave only 7in. in space. The decision is obviously going to break People are walking on the bridge like a this Court's intention of creating a flock of geese, Your Excellency. through road, and I would like the hon. member to give an assurance to the Members: Nonsense! Court that no closure would take place -Mr Kelly: It is not nonsense. The until this Court has approved. floor of the bridge is made of wood, just Mr Kelly: Surely the Harbour Board the same as the floor of a house. know what they are doing, Your Mr Radcliffe: Your Excellency, has Excellency. I am not going to give that the chairman of the Harbour Board any assurance. knowledge of whether any written com- The Governor: I cannot let this plaints have been made to the Harbour develop into a debate. Board in connection with the traffic at Ramsey swing bridge, and have the Mr Kelly: Your Excellency, there is a Board any record of accidents there? .5 m.p.h. restriction on the bridge. A

Closing of Swing Bridges—Question by Mr A. C. Teare. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 267

fair-minded motorist will find that it DUTIES OF CUSTOMS takes exactly 13 seconds to travel the The Governor: Item 5. Duties of extra distance. Customs. I call upon the learned Mr Kerruish:. By helicopter. Attorney-General. Mr Farrant: Your Excellency, in view The Attorney-General: I beg to move the following resolution- of the very great concern which these That the following Orders made by His proposals are arousing and the diffi- Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor under culties to business in Ramsey and Dou- the provisions of the Customs (Isle of Man) Act. 1958, be and the same are hereby glas,. and in particular, North Ramsey, approved:- will he consider holding a public inquiry The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 11) to hear the views of the public on the (Isle of Man) Order. 1958. (Government matter? Circular No. 52/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 12) Mr Kelly: Your Excellency, I don't (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government think that is a fair question. I Circular No. 55/58.) The Additional Import Duties (No. 4) (Isle have been in touch with boarding- of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circu- house keepers on the promenade. I lar 64/58.) was on the quay yesterday morning The Additional Import Duties . (No. 5) (Isle when a lady came up and shook her fist of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circu- lar No. 65/58.) at me. I thought it was the Tourist The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No, 13) Regulations she was annoyed about- (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government (laughter)-but she said, "Don't YOU /et Circular No. 94/58.) that Cecil Teare bamboozle you over the The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 14) bridge." (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government • Circular No. 95/58.) Mr Nivison: Your Excellency, just The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 15) (Isle of man) Order, 1958. (Government one question, I would like to know if the Circular No. 96/58.) Board have given consideration to one- The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 16) way traffic on the bridge? I would like (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government to know if consideration was given to Circular No, 97/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 17) that. ' (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Mr Bolton: Your Excellency, I would Circular No. 98/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 18) like to ask if it is the Board's intention (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government to allow these two bridges eventually Circular No. 99/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 19) to go out of use. I am asking this in (IsLe of Man) Order, 19513. (Government view of the hon. member's known atti- Circular No. 100/58.) tude to other declining amenities, which The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 20) we aren't allowing to go out of use. (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circular No. 101/58.) Mr Stephen: Will the hon. member The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 21) say if it is the intention of the Board (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circular No. 102/58.) to put the proposed order for the The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 22) closing of the bridge before Tynwald for (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government approval? Circular No. 103/58.) The Import Duties (Exemptions) (No. 23) The Governor He says not. (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circular No. 104/58.) Mr Kelly: All pedestrians, handcarts, The Composite Goods (Amendment) (Isle of bicycles. Anything at all of a light Man) Order, 1958. (Government Circular nature will be able to use these bridges. N. 105/58.) The Safeguarding of Industries (Exemption) Mr A. C. Teare: May I thank the (No. 5) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Govern- chairman of the Harbour Board for his ment Circular No. 76/58.) The Safeguarding of Industries (Exemption) answers. Mr Mikoyan could not have (No. 5) (Amendment) (Isle of Man) Order, been more astute. 1958. (Government Circular No. 89/58.)

Duties of Customs. 268 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

The Safeguarding of Industries (Exemption) PENSIONS AND ALLOWANCES— (No. 6) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Govern- VOTE FOR £750 ment Circular No. 90/58.) The Safeguarding of Industries (Exemption) The Governor: Item 3. I call upon the (No. 7) (Isle of Man) Order, 1958. (Govern- learned Attorney-General. ment Circular No. 91/58.) The Attorney-General: I beg to move Mr Stephen: • I would like the learned the following resolution:— Attorney-General to confirm that with one eXception all these Orders. are in That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man be authorised to apply from the current revenue accordance with the Customs agree- of this Isle. during the year ending March ment made with the . 31st, 1959, a sum not exceeding £750 for the purpose of defraying the pensions and The Attorney-General: That is quite allowances payable to former Government employees and the dependants of former correct. Government employees. The resolution was agreed. Such sums to be in addition to the sum 10of58£5. .617 voted by Tynwald on June 17th,

This resolution is in the same position EXPENSES UNDER MISCELLANEOUS as the last, dealing with superannuation. STATUTES—SUPPLEMENTARY VOTE FOR £1,850 Agreed. The Governor: May we now take the Supplementary Agenda? I call upon the learned Attorney-General. TOURIST ACCOMMODATION IMPROVEMENT ACT—VOTE FOR The Attorney-General: Item 1 on the £15..000 . Supplementary Agenda. I beg to move that-special permission be given for the The Governor: Item 6 on the main items on the agenda to be considered. agenda, I call upon the chairman of the Local Government Board. Agreed. Mr Crellin: I beg to move the The Attorney-General: Your Excel- following resolution:— lencY, I beg to move the following reso- That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man be lution:— authorised to apply from the current revenue That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man be of this Isle during the year ending March authorised to apply from the current revenue 31st. 1959, a sum not exceeding £15,000 to of this Isle, during the year ending March defray expenditure incurred under the pro- 31st, 1959, a sum not exceeding £1,850 for visions of the Tourist Accommodation Im- provement Act, 1957. the".purpose of defraying the expenditure to• be incurred with the following services: Such sum to be in addition to the SUM of Inquest of Death Acts, £1000; Representation £40.000 voted by Tynwald on June 17th, 1958. of the People Act, £750, and Superannuation (Officers of Boards) Act, £1.000—total, £1,850. This supplementary vote of £15,000 is in addition to that given last year. And Such sums to be in addition to the sums of £350, £3,000 and £6,000 respectively voted I am sure the Court will agree that it is by Tynwald on June 18th, 1958. a thing most difficult for any Board to This resolution on the Supplementary estimate accurately. There has been no deals with certain additional over-spending. I have some figures Agenda . .which I will submit showing how the expenditure of the present year. Figures Board has been carrying on its work have been circulated to hon. members. in this connection during the year. And The increase in the Representation of the Court will be amazed by the huge the People Act, for instance, is due to sums of money granted to some hotels the fact that there have been three bye- elections. I beg to move the resolution, and boarding-houses. I think the limit of £3.000 applied to only one applica- Agreed. tion, From the 1st of April to 31st

Expenses Under Miscellaneous Statutes —Supplementary Vote for £1,850. Pensions and Allowances—Vote for £750.—Tourist Accommodation Improvement Act—Vote for £15,000. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20. 1959 260

December applications considered num- this current financial year. It is no use ber 39. Twenty-nine were approved; asking His Excellency for money which. refused, none; withdrawn or abandoned, we don't require, eight; and waiting consideration, two. The total loans approved during the Mr McFee: Might I ask, sir, whether period 1st April to 31st December, 1958, it is the intention of the Board to come £26,461. Loans approved during year forward with an amendment to the Act? ended 31st March, 1958 and paid out Three thousand pounds as the maximum during current financial year, £12,857; is not nearly sufficient for a major and total amount of loans to be met amount of development and expansion from Tynwald vote of £40,000—£39,318. necessary to put boarding-houses into Applications awaiting consideration or that state of repair which is necessary the submission of which is anticipated for a modern resort. It seems to me in the present financial year will that the Local Government Board account for a further £9,000. These are, should come forward and ask for of course, additional to the normal amendments of this Act. applications which will be made. One Mr Quayle: Would the chairman of place which accommodates a large the Board also consider an amendment number of visitors has made applica- to bring in new property. I gather that tions for sums amounting to £9,897. where money is to be spent, it must be Another, £3,000 for kitchen and spent on improving property. The dining-rooms improvements; another biggest improvement that could be made £2.787. These are the major loans would be on new property. which have been made. They get the money, free of interest, for three years. Mr Crellin: In reply to the hon. mem- So there is no need to ask for more than ber for Middle. I don't think this should £15,000. After 31st of March, numerous include new property. It would simolY claims will be made by those who have break the Government. made applications. I beg to move the The resolution was agreed. resolution. Mr J. M. Cain: I beg to second. Mr Callister: It is most gratifying, I DRAINAGE SCHEME—MAUGHOLD think, Your Excellency, the advantage VILLAGE—£.2,500 GRANT that has been taken of this Bill. It The Governor: Item 7. Drainage augurs well for the visiting industry. scheme, Maughold Village. I call upon Mr Kaneen: I should like to ask the the chairman of the Local Government chairman of the Board, Your Excel- Board. lency, whether he thinks £15,000 is Mr Crellin: I beg to move the follow- sufficient. Is it not a paltry sum when ing resolution:— you think we are dealing here with the Island's main industry? Is it not a That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man be authorised to apply from the funds standing fact, too, that work has been held to the credit of the Isle of Man Accumulated up— Fund, a sum not exceeding 22,500 to enable the Isle of Man- Local Government Board to Mr Crellin: No. construct a drainage scheme for Maughold Mr Kaneen: Don't you think it is a village. "skinny" attitude to ask for only We have received tenders and the lowest £15,000, in addition to the £40.000, for is for £2,240. an industry that is worth so much to Mr Kerruish: Whilst I support this the Island? resolution, I am critical of the length of Mr Crellin: We are not going to force time it has taken to reach this stage. people to put forward applications. But How much longer will it be before the we feel that £15.000 will clear us for Glen Mona scheme is implemented.

Drainage Scheme—Maughold V illage—£2,500 Grant. 270 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

Mr Crellin: Mr Calder left us six house. The rateable value is so low months ago. We have now asked an. that it would cost just as much more outside architect to get on with this to collect from the properties, and that work. The owners are not too keen to is why there is a fixed charge, and a sell out. rate to make up the balance. The The resolution was agreed. refuse of the properties will be collected by Onchan Village Commissioners.

EX-GRATIA PAYMENT FOR MRS OLGA COWELL, WIDOW OF MOTOR MILEAGE ALLOWANCES— FORMER CLERK TO THE JUSTICES REPORT OF COMMITTEE OF The Governor: Item 8. I call upon the TYNWALD learned Attorney-General. The Governor: Motor mileage allow- The Attorney-General: I beg to move ances. I call on the hon. member for the following resolution:— Ramsey, Mr Kelly. That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man be Mr Kelly: Your Excellency, in moving authorised to apply from the current revenue of this Isle, during the year ending March the report of this special committee 31st. 1959, a sum not exceeding £361 as an appointed by Tynwald some consider- ex gratin award to Mrs B. Cowell, widow able time ago in connection with these of Mr Robert Cowell, lately Clerk to the motor allowances, I might first explain Justices for many years. the reason for the delay in presenting The full circumstances which give rise the report to Tynwald. In the first place to this resolution appearing on the we had difficulty in obtaining the in- agenda have been circulated to all formation we wanted from London. members. It is one I recommend. Then having got that information one beg to move the resolution. of our members was taken ill—the hon. member for South Douglas, Mr Stephen, Agreed. was ill for some weeks or months—and then the season came along, and it was not until October that we met. We LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACTS- have made a very full report and copies BRADDAN DISPOSAL DISTRICT have been circulated to the members. EXTENDED I don't propose to go through it page by page, but if hon. members wish to The Governor: Item 9. I call upon the ask questions I will do my best to chairman of the Local Government answer them. Your Excellency, we Board. agreed first that there should be one Mr Crelltn: I beg to move the follow- universal scale of allowances for mem- ing resolution:— bers of Tynwald, for officials and for That the Order made by the Local Govern- non-members of Tynwald. Up to the ment Board on November 7th, 1958, under the present time there have been two.scales. provisions of section 62 of the Local Govern- Motor mileage allowances currently ment Consolidation Act, 1916, as amended by section 62 of the Local Government Con- payable to members of Tynwald are as solidation Act, 1938, extending the Braddan follows: Motor-car up to and including Disposal District, he and the same is hereby 10 h.p., 71d per mile; motor-car over approved. 10 h.p., 9d a mile, and motor-cycle 3d THIS resolution relates to the Braddan per mile. These allowances were Bridge area. There are 45 properties. approved by Tynwald in October, 1954. Your Excellency, the annual rateable Motor mileage allowances currently value of which will be £572, and the payable to Government officials were latest rate is 7d. In addition to that recommended in the report of a commit- there will be a fixed charge of us per tee of Tynwald dated December 4th

Ex-Gratia Payment for Mrs Olga Cowell, Widow. of .Former Clerk to the Justices.—Local Government Acts—Bra ddan Disposal District Extended.—Motor Mileage Allowances—Report of Committee of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 271

1952, and were adopted by Tynwald on Mr Kelly: It is a unanimous report. I February 17th, 1953. They are: First beg to move that it be adopted, Your 3,000 miles per annum, 7d per mile: the Excellency. next 3,000 miles per annum, 524:3 per Mr Stephen: I beg to second, Your mile, and the remaining mileage 4cl per Excellency, and reserve my remarks. mile. In paragraph 5 of the report we say that "In our view there is no justi- Mr Callister: Your Excellency, I may fication for two scales—one for mem- not be supported by my colleagues in bers of Tynwald, and the other for this, but I must join issue with the hon. officials. We consider that there should senior member for Ramsey and say that, be one universal scale." We have in my opinion, the travelling allowances • revised the figures so that they are paid members of Tynwald are unreason- brought up to date, and we considered, able and unjustifiable, and I am unable having had information from London in to subscribe to the rates paid or to the basis of calculation, and certainly not connection with what is paid to Mem- to the proposed increases. So far as the bers of Parliament and of local authori- allowances to officials are concerned,. I ties and to civil servants by way of agree with the basis of calculation and mileage allowances, that one universal the rates, but with strict controls as to scale should apply to everyone here. the necessity for the use of a car. Hon. members will notice from the Speaking of officials, there has to be report that we have gone very carefully strict control as to whether the work of into things like coatings, the increase in an official demands the use of a car; the cost of running a motor-car, the cost whether it would be an • economy in of tyres, maintenance, servicing, insur- time factor as against travel by train ance and so on, and we recommend the or bus, but the report makes no condi- rate set out in the report—for cars up tions in this respect, nor does it make any reference to what is not justifiable to an including 1,199 c.c., 8d a mile for use of a car by an official. Once having the first 5,000 miles, and 6d a. mile decided that an official should use his thereafter; for cars over 1,199 c.c., 9Ad car then he is entitled to standing and a mile for the first 5,000 miles, and 7d a maintenance allowances, but I still mile thereafter. We also recommend think the allowances are too high. I that these scales should operate retro- fail to see what car prices, cost of spectively from April 1st, 1958. Your replacement of parts, licences, insur- Excellency, there might be some criti- ance, tyres and garage rents have to do cism of what we recommend, but we with allowances to members of Tyn- went very carefully into every aspect of wald. Even the repoft admits that the matter before making our report. I members of Tynwald "would not have a must pay tribute to the members of the ear without some private use for it." I committee who worked so hard on it— would go further and say that no there was Mr McFee, Mr Stephen, Mr member of Tynwald buys a car merely Rade'Hie and Mr Bolton, who gave because he has been elected as such, and every assistance. Although he lives in that he is not entitled to these standing Douglas and would not be using a car and maintenance and depreciation as other members would, he took a very allowances. Members of Parliament fair and impartial view of this matter, are paid the cost of petrol only, and putting in a tremendous amount of work then only provided it does not exceed in arriving at these figures. I am sure first-class rail fare for the journey, and that . my other colleagues on the com- further, it is restricted to 3d per mile. mittee will agree with that. No payments are made for running expenses in constituencies or for Mr Nivison: You will get his vote, journeys between M.P.'s houses and the anyway. (Laughter.) Houses of Parliament. There has been

Motor Mileage Allowances—Report of Committee of Tynwald. 272 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

an economy drive here—almost panic lish legislation it is done. But not death economy—but it would appear that the duties, not super tax, not the same rates victims of economy are not to be of income tax and surtax and certainly members of Tynwald. I am amazed not wages. The hon. junior member for thaf the hon. member for Ramsey should West Douglas is too fond of aping, but have the temerity to support these only aping. And now it seems that we allowances and suggest increases. He, are to improve on United Kingdom together with other hon. members of travelling allowances. Let us start our this Court, have stated that our Welfare economies in this Court. The average State is costing too much. As a member well-kept car will do at least 25 miles to of the Health Services Board he has the gallon of petrol, which is about 2d a been a party to the most callous sacking mile and another Id per mile for oil, of indefensible employees. He has etc., and that is all the taxpayers should opposed the provision of protective be called upon to provide. That brings clothing for workers exposed to bad it to the same rate as for Members of conditions, and he has refused to agree Parliament. To plagiarise a well-known to an increase in the wages of casual television advertisement, let us think of workers—as is paid . in the United the hon. senior member for Ramsey Kingdom. The chairman of the Forestry turning off the engine of his motor-car Board said recently in Tynwald, "We when he gets to the Bungalow and then have people (working for us) who have as each milestone goes by he starts • to do a lot of footslogging to get to their singing "Another ninepence for Spencer, work." Do we start with repairs to for Spencer, for Spencer, another nine- boots and so forth, while he receives 9d pence for Spencer, so pass this to-day. - a mile from his home and makes.a profit (Laughter.) I move, Your Excellency, on it? When I asked him if his Board that this report be referred back to the would convey their employees to their committee to consider and make pro- work free of cost and informed him that posals on the basis of the allowances it cost some of his employees lOs a week paid to members of the British Parlia- out of their meagre earnings, he flatly ment and its officials. refused to consider them— Mr Kerruish: Your Excellency, I sup- Mr Corkhill: Your Excellency, I don't port this resolution, but I would first think that is quite fair. like to object most strongly to the un- warranted attack that has been made Mr Callister: In all conscience, I fail on the hon. member for Ramsey who is to see bow he can support these recom- in charge of this Bill by the hon. mendations. The present allowances member for North Douglas. In parti- cost £1,750 last year, and about half a cular I object most strongly to his using dozen received more than half of this. statements that were made in committee At least three claimed for over 6,000 by the hon. member. I think that is a- miles and received over E.200 each. most unwarranted thing to do. Some members do not possess cars. The Mr Callister: They were made in this chairman of the Local Government Court. Board has, I understand, no car, and he finds the trains and buses adequate and Mr Kerruish: They were made in convenient. It may be that by virtue committee. of the directorships he holds he travels Mr Callister: And in this Court, too. free, I wouldn't know! (Laughter.) But when members of Tynwald redeive Mr Kerruish: They were made in twice as much by way of travelling committee. They were made on cloth- allowances as an old age pensioner gets ing allowances and on other allowances to live on it is time to call a halt. It to be considered by the Joint Industrial would appear that when it suits the Council and the trade unions. We can majority of this hon. Court to ape Eng- take a little humour in this Court, but

Motor Mileage Allowances—Report of Committee of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 273 this is in. extremely bad taste. It is The Governor: He did not say that. time the hon. member pulled in his horns a little Mr Callister: The allowances are greater than on the old scale. Mr Nivison: Be is not alone. Mr Nivison: Your Excellency, I wish Mr Kerruish: You are in the Party, too, and I suppose you would have some to support the reference back of the sympathy with him, but when we take resolution moved by my colleague, Mr up the attitude of not following England Callister, the hon. member for North in certain things because it is not con- Douglas. although I do not wish to asso- venient to certain members to do so, we ciate myself with the. generous method must bear in mind that certain members in which he moved it. Neither do I wish of the Labour Party also find it con- to comment on the criticism because we .venient to adopt this attitude on occa- all know that what one can do another sions. But this is only a mockery of a can sometimes do better. (Laughter.) Socialist Party-- I am in support of certain parts of the Mr Stephen: May we get back to the report and one is the part that allows report, Your Excellency. members and officials to be on the same footing. That is a reasonable thing. I Mr Kerruish: Your Excellency, we believe, myself, however, that the sug- also have a bit of "sob stuff" about old- gestion the hon. member for Ramsey age pensioners, but I would also ask the made with reference to the 9Ad a mile Court to bear in mind that this is in respect of cars exceeding 1,100 c.c. going to mean a reduction in a large needs consideration. I think it may be number of allowances paid to members said that this is perhaps a little more of Tynwald. As one of the people than generous and I am putting it possibly concerned in putting up heavier mildly. I would like to make reference mileage I can only say that we should to commercial firms who make allow- reasonably expect to be compensated ances to their employees. I, myself, when for five days a week we come into have a vehicle. In passing, I was pleased Douglas to transact public business. It to see that the hon. member made refer- is all very well mentioning the members ence to motor-cycles. When these at Westminster getting £1,500 a year; regulations were originally framed I but they do not have to transact public believe they had in mind a certain business in the way that we in this small member who had a motor-cycle at that Island have to do and no one should time. (Laughter.) He has no longer try to get away with a false premise.. got a motor-cycle. The members of the commission or com- mittee in this case have actually suc- Mr Corkhill: Some have push bikes. ceeded in reducing the amount to be paid to members of Tynwald for travel- Mr Nivison: And the same member ling allowances, and I am very pleased has never drawn any motor-cycle or car that they have taken a more realistic allowances, but he does draw what he view by increasing the allowances for calls his allowance equivalent of a first- Government officials and I feel that the class ticket, from his home, and it resolution should be passed unani- amounts to £8 a year in reference to mously. my particular travelling. But at the same time I am not opposed to those Mr A. J. Teare: Your Excellency, I who do. We should make reasonable should like formally to second the allowance for a man who has to use his amendment proposed by the hon. mem- vehicle, but there are commercial firms ber for North Douglas. with long experience of employees using Mr Callister: On a point of order,. the cars and they have calculated the exact hon. member for Garff has said that cost for a car of 1,100 c.c. and upwards. there would not be an increase. They are prepared to allow 4d per mile.

••••1■14/1•MM , Motor Mileage Allowances—Report of Committee of Tynwald. 274 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

It has been argued that this is perhaps get is not slightly higher, but in relation a little. niggardly and it was pointed to the cost they have to pay they will out, as the hon. member for North get considerably less, because no one Douglas has said, that if a car is in can deny that the costs of motoring reasonable condition it should cover have gone up. There are members of approximately 25 miles to the gallon, so this Court who are compelled to cover that the petrol would cost 2d and one 100 miles a week, which is 5,200 miles a could add a further 2d with regard to year. and the hon. member for North other expenses. But there is a big Douglas has given us the explanation difference to all this. Those people have cars and are 'required to have cars, that you can cover 5,200 miles without especially for their business. They the cost of tyres. must have cars but in the case of Mr Callister: I did not suggest that. members of the Legislature it would be true to say the cars are not obtained Mr Bolton: You did suggest that. You specially because they are in the Legis- only mentioned petrol and oil. If a lature. I agree they should be liberal, man is wearing Out his tyres over 5,200 but I think that 91d a mile is more than miles a year in the service of Tynwald liberal and I would support the refer- then Tynwald is entitled to pay for the ence back in order that further con- tyres, and if his car is being depreciated sideration should be given by the com- then he is entitled to be recompensed. mittee. This is the establishing of the principle that if a man incurs any expenditure in Mr Bolton: Your Excellency, I did not public service then he shall be entitled anticipate there would be opposition to recover such expenses. The principle and I am rather astounded that there is. has been accepted that members are Not many years ago I complained a entitled to use their cars and they number of times at the difference be- should do so if it becomes necessary and tween the amounts payable to members that we should pay them. I am quite of Tynwald and the amounts paid to convinced that these figures are reason- officials and that a member of Tynwald able as far as the running of a car is was allowed to receive more than the concerned. We have said that at least official. Now we have the basis 25 percent. of the fixed charges should which will put them on the same be borne by the owner because no one footing. should buy a car purely to carry out the Mr Nivison: Up to the same basis. work of Tynwald but members should be recompensed if they use their cars Mr Bolton: If you will allow me; you to a large extent. I do hope that the have finished, I hope. We have now a Court will accept the report as I think basis whereby the official and the it is a reasonable report and it appears member of Tynwald will receive the to me to be fair to everyone concerned. same payment in respect of the same expenses. The hon. member for North Mr Kelly: Well, Your Excellency, Douglas has suggsted that there are think it is unfair to qote the payment of profits. It is utterly ridiculous to say £1,500 to Members of Parliament when there is any profit in this business. the members of Tynwald only receive The figures have been carefully £.200 a year. examined and I can say that I have Mr Callisier: How often do they been associated with the committee attend. since 1946 and I can also say this, that the members of Tynwald who use their Mr Kelly: They are doing work as cars a lot have undoubtedly made some well, of benefit to the Isle of Man, and sacrifices in accepting these figures. I we are entitled to benefit for mileage am not saying that the figure they will expenses.

Motor Mileage Allowances—Report of Committee of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 275

Mr Canister: It is a full-time job. The Governor: The amendment is lost, having been lost in the Keys by five Mr Stephen: Your Excellency, if my votes to 18 and lost in the Council by colleague, the hon. member for North one vote to eight. Voting for the Douglas is going to persist in his objec- amendment in the Council was the hon. tions before the hon. member for member, Mr Teare. Ramsey has finished his reply there is one thing I want to say and this is this. The resolution was put to the Court If we must be included in the general and agreed, Mr Callister dissenting. castigation—I must say he was much better in the dress rehearsal before Tynwald—(laughter)-1 will say this to MARKETING COMMITTEE OF THE him and the Court. We were dealing BOARD OF AGRICULTURE- wii-h the application of motor-car ' GOVERNOR'S NOMINATIONS allowances. He has raised other matters and has then attempted to link them The Governor: Item 13, Marketing together and I dissociate myself entirely Committee of the Board of Agriculture from the way he has done it. If he wishes and Fisheries. I have to announce that to raise those matters as a separate have nominated the following persons issue I may be with him. But that is to represent consumers on the Market- no reason for attempting to poison the ing Committee of the Isle of Man Board minds of the Court and the public by of Agriculture and Fisheries for a term introducing extraneous matters. (Rear, of two years ending December 31st, 1960 hear.) I must say that as a non- —Mrs T. H. Hall. Mr R. B. Browne and motorist among the motorists I have Mr .L. Hamer. Item 14. I call on the asked some awkward questions. The Attorney-General. hon. member, Mr Bolton, put forward The Attorney-General: I beg to move his calculations and although I would the resolution:— not presume to differ I checked them and I found that he was correct. That His Excellency the Lieutenant- Governor's nomination of the fallowing per- (Laughter.) I had no hesitation, sons to represent consumers on the Market- therefore, in signing the report as a ing Committee of the Isle of Man Board of modernisation of the application of Agriculture and Fisheries for a term of two years ending on December 31st, 1960. be and mileage allowances. the same are hereby approved:— Mr Kelly: I am much obliged for those (1) Mns T. H. Hall comments and with those few remarks (2) Mr R. B. Browne . I move the resolution. (3) Mr L. Hamer Mr Farrant: I beg to second and I The Governor: There is an amend- would like to say on behalf of the Board ment that the resolution be referred of . Agriculture what valuable service back. these three members have given. The amendment failed on a division Mr Kerruish: While I support the by 18 votes to five in the Keys, the resolution. I would like an assurance voting being:- that when these people are elected they For—Messrs Nivison, Quayle, C-allis- may be permitted to exercise their own ter, Corkish and Gale-5. judgment without any pressure being brought on them. I am informed that Against: Messrs Corlett, Corkhill, the Marketing Committee of the Board Crowe. Radcliffe. Kerruish, Quine. of Agriculture are informed from time H. S. Cain, Simcocks, McFee,. Coale, to time that Your Excellency will not Stephen, J. M. Cain, Kaneen, Irving, accept certain recommendations if they Bolton, Kelly, A. C. Teare, and the are brought forward and I understand Speaker-18. that is done without any consultation

Marketing Committee of the Board of Agriculture—Governor's Nominations. 276 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, l959 with Your Excellency, or the Executive with Item 15. Naval and Military War Council. I would like an assurance Pensions. I cal' on the Attorney- that their decisions and conclusions will General. not be subject to any sort of pressure The Attorney-General: Your Excel- in future. lency, I beg to move the first part of Mr Farrant: I would like more infor- item 15, set out on page 5 and on the mation on this matter. Who is he first part of page 6:- getting at? They have had no pressure 1. For appointment of members of the from the Board of Agriculture. Local Committee under the Naval and Mili- tary War Pensions. etc.. Act. 1915, and the Mr Kerruish: I am trying to find out Ministry of Pensions Act. 1916, in accordance who is exerting the pressure. I am told with the scheme framed by Tynwald and approved by the Minister of Pensions and that members of this committee are told National Insurance, for a term of three years that if they bring forward certain from January 28th, 1959. recommendations they will not be The representation on the Local Commit- accepted by the Governor and when the tee of the bodies mentioned In the schedule reductions have been put forward they to the scheme is laid down as under— Represen- have been turned down without refer- tation to ence to His Excellency or the Executive ' which Council. I have found that the matters Name of Body entitled have not been turned down by His (1) Nominated by Tynwald (at least one of whom shall be Excellency and have never been con- a member of the Isle of sidered by the 'Executive Council. Man Board of Social Ser- Somewhere along the line there is some vices 5 members misrepresentation of cases and I know (2) Soldiers', Sailors and Air- the hon. member of the Council well men's Families Association 2 members (3) Forces Help Society (I.O.M enough to know it has not emanated Branch) and Lord Roberts' from him. think it should be clarified Work shops 2 members and in the future these members should (4) British Legion (Isle of Man be able to carry out their work without County) 4 members any pressure from above. (5) Isle of Man Trades Council 2 members (8) Independent Order of Odd The Attorney-General: This commit- Fellows I member tee is free to make any recommenda- (7) Independent Order of Recha- tions they wish and they will be bites 1 member considered. (8) Ancient Order of Foresters .. 1 meMber Not less than two members of the coin- The Governor: That is the position. •mittee shall be women, one of whom shall There is no need to have any more dis- be a representative of women in receipt of cussion; no one knows the facts. pension as widows or dependants of ex- Servicemen. 1VIr Kerruish: I have a jolly good idea The following bodies have recommended to of the facts. Tynwald for appointment, as provided by artitce 2 of the scheme, the persons whose The Governor: Is the resolution names and addresses are set forth below agreed? opposite the names of the respective bodies:— Agreed. Name of Body and Representation to Persons which Entitled Recommended (2) Soldiers', Sailors' WAR PENSIONS COMMITTEE and Airmen's Mr Quayle: Having regard to the Families Ass° - tion (2 members) Two interest in Item 11 (Tourist Accommo- Miss N. S. Kerr, dation Regulations) will Your Excel- " The Mount," lency give some idea when it will be Mayhill, Ramsey. taken? Mr T. L: Richardson. Hague Lodge, The Governor: I will take it imme- Governor's Road, diately after lunch, now we will deal Onchan.

War Pensions Committee. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 277

Name of Body and After that it will be necessary to deal Representation to Persons with the nomination of five members by which Entitled Recommended Tynwald. (3) Forces Help Society (I.O.M Mr Farrant: I beg to second. Branch) and Lord Roberts' Agreed. Workshops (2 members) Two The Governor: Part II. I call on the Mr E. C. Shimmin, Attorney-General. " Grenaby," York Road, Douglas. The Attorney-General: Dealing with Mr P. W. S. Farrant, Part II of this resolution, it is for mem- 4. Albert Terrace. bers of the Court to nominate five Douglas. members for this committee. The (4) British Legion members need not necessarily be (I.O.M. County) members of Tynwald. (4 members) .... Four Mr A. Clayton, The Governor: They need not be "Ivydene,” members of Tynwald and one must be Wheel Hill, Laxey. a woman. Capt. E. S. Anderson, Nominations were received. "Deva,- Linden Avenue, The Governor: I have received five Port St. Mary. nominations—Mrs A. D. Bridson, Messrs Rev. R. H. Reid, Simcocks, Gale. Farrant and Corkish. "Deva,- Sartfell Road, Mr Callister: I move that nominations Douglas. close. Mr A. Hill, "Aeg Cronk," The Governor: I declare the five Tynwald Road, Peel. persons nominated duly elected, (5) Isle of Man Trades Council (2 members) Two Mr R. E. Davies, APPOINTMENT OF PUBLIC "Windyridge,- Quarterbridge Road, AUDITORS Douglas. The Governor: Item 16, appointment Mr G. A. Quinney, Transport House, of Public Auditors. I .call on the Prospect Hill, Attorney-General. Douglas. (6) Independent Order The Attorney-General: I beg to move of Odd Fellows the following resolution:— (1 member) .... One That in accordance with the Audit Act, Mr -R. C. Stephen. 1886, Messrs W. H. Walker and Company be 10, Ballakermeen Rd„ appointed to audit the accounts of the Isle Douglas. of Man Harbour Board for the year ending (7) Independent Order March 31st, 1959; at a fee to be later pre- of Rechabites (1 scribed by Tynwald. member) One Mr Kerruish: Why is the Harbour Mr T. Kermode. Board separate and who settles the fee? 19. Selborne Road, Douglas. The Governor: The fee is prescribed (8) Ancient Order of by Tynwald. Foresters (1 member) One The AttorneY-General: When the new Mr R. S. Watterson, Bill comes through this will be altered. 28, The Park, Onchan. Agreed.

Appointment of Public Auditors. 278 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

' JUVENILE DELINQUENCY— to borrow a sum not exceeding £5.825 MR. W. A. QUAYLE WITHDRAWS at a rate not exceeding 5 per cent. RESOLUTION per annum and repayable in 15 years, to enable them to defray a The Governor: Item 17. I call on the portion of the cost of various improve- hon. member for Middle, Mr Quayle. ments relating to Port Soderick. It will Mr Quayle: I beg leave of the Court be 50 per cent. of the cost in respect of to withdraw the resolution standing in the layout of the glen and the fresh- my name:— water paddling pool and 25 per cent, of the marine pathway. It just follows up That Tynwald appoint a committee to examine the possibility of— the Government grant. Some of the (a) the setting up of a remand home or work has been done and some is in the approved school in the Isle of Man; course of being done. On October 15th, (b) the extension • of the powers of corporal 1957, a Petition was made to Tynw2.ld. punishment in the ,Tuvenile Court authorising the Corporation to acquire and to report to Tynwald. by compulsory purchase certain fields. Since putting forward this resolution I part of Ballashamrock, Braddan, con- find, after being very much assisted by taining 8.85 acres of land. Tynwald the legal officers of the Court that the refused power of compulsory purchase various objects embraced in my resolu- but passed a resolution for the compul- tion will probably in the very near sory acquisillon of 2.25 acres of the future be covered. I learn that there is Lhergy field. a new Summary Jurisdiction Bill The Attorney-General: May I inter- coming forward which will have the vene to say that because of the noise in effect of carrying out some of the the public gallery I cannot hear what objects. The age limit will be coming the hon. member is saying. May I down to 17 in line with England and not ask that the persons in the public 18, as at present, and Juvenile Courts gallery sit down until the member is will be given power to birch young finished. persons up to the age of 17. With regard to the third point, I do intend in Mr Crellin: Apparently proceedings the near future to ask for an amend- were commenced but there was a ment to section 22 of the Children and settlement and the land was purchased Young Persons Act with regard to a for £20 and it was agreed to erect. a remand home and that will be debated post and wire fence along the southern in the normal way. May I have leave boundary of the field. Certain works to withdraw this. were carried out but I do not know quite what the position is with regard to this. Agreed. Tynwald asked for compulsory purchase and I understand the Attorney-General was considering it. I am not sure what his answer is. I beg to move that the PETITION OF DOUGLAS prayer of the Petition be granted. CORPORATION Mr H. S. Cain: .1 beg to second. The Governor: Item 18: I call on the hon. member of the Council, the chair- Agreed. man of the Local Government Board, who will move a Petition from the The Governor: The Court will now Douglas Corporation. adjourn until 2-30 p.m. Mr Crellin: This is an application The Court adjourned and resumed at from the Borough of Douglas for leave 2-30 p.m.

Juvenile Delinquency—Mr W. A. Quayle Withdraws Resolution.—Petition of Douglas Corporation. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 279

ISLE OF MAN ASSESSMENT and Boarding House Keepers' Associa- BOARD—MR. A. C. TEARE tion, who allege that their business will APPOINTED be affected by the proposed regulations. and therefore, in my opinion. I think The Governor: We will try to dispose counsel should be heard. of No, 12 on- the agenda before we go on to the Tourist Accommodation Mr .T. M. Cain seconded and it was Regulations, and I call upon the hon. agreed that coiinsel should be heard. member of the Council, Mr Crellin. The Governor: Counsel may now be Mr Crellin: Your Excellency, may I heard. first propose the suspension of Standing Order 164, which relates to seven days' Mr A. C. Luft (counsel for the Dou- notice being required before the rele-. glas Residential and Boarding House Pant legislation is laid before Tynwald. Association); May it please Your Ex- Mr Kerruish seconded, and it was cellency and members of the Court. the agreed to suspend the Standing Order. memorialists for whom I appear are all actively engaged in the boarding-house The Governor: It is required to business in Douglas. and they are all appoint a member of the Isle of Man members oil the Executive committee Assessment Board to fill a vacancy, and of the Association. The Tourist Accom- the Selection Committee's recommenda- modation Regulations of 1958 came be- tion is that Mr A. C. Teare be appointed. fore this Court on the 21st of May last, The other members of the Board are: and consideration of these regulations Mr J. L, Quine (chairman), Sir Ralph was deferred in order that the Board Stevenson, Messrs T. A. Code and H. S. could consult with the Association's Cain. Are there other nominations? representatives on matters on which they were at variance. There have There were no other nominations and been several consultations between the the Governor declared Mr A. C. Teare two parties and the memorialists have appointed. made representations, but the altera- tions which have been made in the regu- lations now. presented are confined to TOURIST ACCOMMODATION some three words. and, in all respects, REGULATIONS REFERRED TO the reguIatons are substantially the COMMITTEE OF THREE OF same as those which came before the TYNWALD Court in May last. These regulations have aroused the most determined The Governor: And now No. 11 on the opposition on the part of the Residential agenda, the Tourist Accommodation Hotel and Boarding House Association Regulations. I have received a Memorial and the Board have, in these regula- on behalf of the Isle of Man Residential tions, taken very wide powers in the Hotel and Boarding House Association, way of penalties, and apart from the and I have been assured that the provision for penalties—from £10 to Membrial is in order. It is for Tynwald £50—there are continuing penalties of to decide whether the Memorial will be E2 a day for each day the defect con- accepted. I call on the learned Attorney- General. tinues. Even further, the Board have, under the regulations, power to put a The Attorney-General: I beg to move hotelier out of business by cancelling that the Memorial be receiiied. It is his registration or refusing to renew a that of the Douglas Residential Hotel registration. Two courses, it would

Isle of Man Assessment Board — Mr A. C. Teare Appointed. — Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 280 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 appear, Your Excellency, are only open imposed by the regulation, "Sleeping to this Court—ither to approve these out" visitors is by no means an un- regulations entirely as they stand, or common practice and does occur, as hon. disprove them and reject the regula- members of the Court will know. Regu- tions.. There is no power, as I see it, for lation 8 gives them power to refuse the Court to amend the regulations in registration. Now, the Act under which detail. It is necessary, however, for me the regulations were drawn up have no to refer to the particular provisions of reference to put this provision in the the regulations to which the utmost objection is taken and to point out regulations. It is seen in sub-section where injustice arises. Now I must first (2) of section 2 of the Act, the Board refer to Regulation (1), which gives the may make regulations for giving effect definition of tourist premises to be regis- to the classification of tourist premises, tered and which comprises residential and the classification for registration, hotels. boarding-houses, lodging-houses, but their powers as to refuse registra- furnished accommodation, holiday tion should be put into clear, plain camps, holiday hostels, youth hostels, words if that was so intended. Classifi- camp sites and caravan sites, but there cation can be explained by referring to is an exclusion at the end where the what has happened in Jersey. In the regulation provides that no registration Jersey law (that is equivalent to an Act is needed "where the maximum number of Tynwald), there is specific power, in of persons for whom lodging is provided certain detailed cases, to refuse registra- at any one time is less than five." My tion, and they deal with such things as clients consider that this exclusion con- the general character of the premises stitutes too wide a loophole and that with which no one can quarrel, and the regulation. if it is to be made at all, under that head they can refuse to should apply to all persons taking in register at all. The Tourist Board, it is visitors. From the 1951 census figures submitted, should not assume the power it would appear that one-seventh of the to register by the back door of implica- total single beds available in the Isle of tion under that clause, that because they Man are in private houses and almost have the right to register they have the one-third of the double beds are in right to refuse. The refusal of registra- private houses, and a large number of tion is so grave a step that such a sug- these private houses may take in a few gestion should only be confered by clear visitors, and the industry feels that if words in the Act giving that power. there is to be this stringent control it Cancellation of registration is given should apply to all who are connected under Regulation 9, and in the Act it is with it. and these small houses, some of merely a power to cancel, which my which may be subsidised houses, with clients would have thought applicable, no registration, are just as likely to say, on the death of the proprietor or for bfing discredit on the industry as the some other reason, such as giving up larger houses. As the Board would business. Again, in Jersey, the powers have no right, to inspect such small, of cancellation are ,limited to specific unregistered houses, it would be im- cases such as bringing on the Island possible to find out, whether they were discredit as a visiting centre, or .where taking in five or ten visitors. The regu- the scale of charges has been exceeded lation would also appear. in this respect, and in one or two other practices of a to permit a person to accommodate five grave nature, but here, there is a whole people, and to feed twenty, which it host of matters under which registration could do by "sleeping out" the surplus may be cancelled, and the powers of visitors in other unregistered houses, all inspection and registration are dele- of which shows that it would be unfair gated to the Registration and Grading to provide this loophole when other Committee of three members, so that people have to stick to the restrictions the words "in the opinion of the Board"

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 281 really mean in the opinion of 'the com- matters are concerned. There is no mittee of three." That means there is question of one week, three months or no standard laid down by which a pro- any other period of time being given, prietor may learn what is required in and yet it might take a considerable' his premises; whether it is the food, time to execute the repairs. and, in a service of competence of management. tenanted house, the tenant may be put An infrigement of the regulations could in the position of having to incur a very mean that a house booked up with visitors for the busiest part of the considerable expense to comply with the season could be condemned in May or requests from the Board-which is really June by the opinion of the committee of the responsibility of the landlord,, or three and forthwith would have to ought to be the responsibility of the cancel bookings and the proprietor landlord. He may be getting to the end would thereby expose himself for action of the term of his- lease and yet he would for breach of contract, be faced with very considerable expense because, in the opinion of the committee Deemster Kneale: There is the right of three it was time that such repairs of appeal. should be effected. These provisions ought not, in my submission, to be Mr Luft; I will refer to that Your inserted until other legislation is avail- Honour. The right of appeal is nuga- able so that the owner of the property tory in the way these regulations are would bear his share in bringing the phrased. There can be no other legisla- premises up to the standard required. tion of a penal character where a citi- The defect in the property might be zen can be guilty, and deprived of his unknown to the proprietor, the visitor livelihood, where the evdence is defined would have no knowledge of it, and yet on the information of a committee of the Board would have power to request three, and where so essential an in- the immediate remedy of such defect. fringement of the regulations would That is what the two regulations, in depend on the opinion of the committee, effect. mean. It might be ventilation; or and on that opinion only. The pro- woodworm in the roof. The remedy of prietors would not know what the both are essential to premises for minimum standards were. They would visitors and yet the proprietor or vary from time to time as the members tenant would not have a week, a fort- of the committee would vary, whether night or three months notice to do any- the house was in Peel or Douglas Pro- thing about it, and he would be liable menade or. Buck's Road, and it is these to a penalty of £20 with a fine of £2 a things which have given rise to such day for each day the defect continued. grave concern. The committee would That we say, Your Excellency, is not be jury, judge and executioner and we reasonable. There is another funda- contend the appeal court could not mental injustice in Regulation 8 and that is with reference to appeals against the substitute their own opinion. Two decision of the committee of three. If paragraphs (1) and (2) of Regulation 8 the opinion of the Registration Commit- give rise to very great concern. Para- tee is to be held, then there is no graph (1) states that if the premises -external standard for the Appeals Com- are structurally in a bad state of repair mittee to g o on; there would be no or do not conform to the minimum example which might make matters standards Of sanitation, ventilation or clear. Supposing the Registration Com- safety. In my submission they should mittee, on the ground of some inade- never have appeared in the same regu- quacy in the food, refused or cancelled lation as matters relating to food, ser- a registration and the proprietor vice add so on, and in my submission appealed. The committee would say, the proprietors are entitled to know 'In our opinion the food is' not of the more about the notice where structural minimum standard required." The

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald, 282 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

Appeal Committee could only be con- general principle of the criminal law. cerned with what the committee of three The regulation, in our submission: had given as their opinion. It would sweeps away one of the ancient rights only be necessary for the committee to of a citizen in his own house. Those, prove what their opinion was and the Your Excellency, are the principal ob- proprietor's opinion could not be ex- jections, and I don't wish to take up plained. That, of course. is something more time of this Court than I possibly which should not be tolerated. It ought can. But I wish to emphasise that these not to be left to the opinion of a com- regulations as they are, are not such as mittee of three. should be approved. The Board can Deemster Kneale: You think there very well say that they have no inten- should be a re-hearing.. tion of putting anyone out of business, that they will deal with the regulations Mr Luft: I think there would have to in a most considerable way. But, with be a re-hearing to make it a true all respect to the Board, I would submit appeal. That, I submit,. Your Excel- that that is not the question. It is the lency, is not justice. I propose to deal same thing as if an Order of Tynwald with one other specific objection under was seeking power, under a regulation, Regulation 14. Under that regulation to enter one's house. When one would there is the right of inspection. . It en- object to that, they might say. "But we ables the whole of the Board, any will be most gentle." It would be quite member, or any authorised officer to wrong to accept that even though we enter and walk into premises "at . all might have that assurance from the reasonable times" after presenting present members of the Board. The themselves to a responsible person, and simple question is—are these regula- that might mean. excluding certain tions just, necessary and desirable? periods of the night, any time. The They are flagrantly unjust. They are memorialists are opposed to that pro- against the liberty of the subject, and vision., It might mean that in the they interfere with this hotel industry middle of the afternoon—when many in an unreasonable manner. They can- proprietors are trying to make up for not be necessary in such a form as they loss of sleep, in the middle of preparing have been presented. It cannot be food, or when serving that food, the pro- desirable that the visiting industry prietor would be expected to leave his should be subject to such regulations as duties and conduct the inspectors on a these. They do require the most tour of his premises! It is claimed that scrupulous scrutiny, because they be- such inspection is not necessary, and it come part of the Act and they require the same scrutiny the House would give would be sufficient if the Board were to any Bill. The industry has come to armed with the powers of inspection the conclusion that they must do all they following a definite complaint. There- can to persuade this Court not to after the regulation goes on to deal approve them. It will still be open to with the right of entry and sub- the Board, with the aid of the hoteliers, paragraph 5 provides that the proprietor to devise regulations which will give or tenant can be fined a penalty of £50. some hope to the industry, and by.help- It is a principle in criminal law, which ing to bring prosperity to the industry has been accepted for a long time now, and the Island generally. I do submit. that no one is bound to incriminate Your Excellency and hon. members, himself, but under these regulations it that these regulations, in the form sub- is an offence not to answer a question, mitted:. should not be approved. or for a proprietor to refuse to answer a list of questions. To do so would lay Mr A. C. Teare: May I ask learned him open to the maximum penalty, and counsel a. question with reference to I. sitbmit that is a contravention of the section 1, with regard to premises where

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 283 accommodation is provided for less than The Attorney-General: If the tenancy five, It is suggested that a person agreement provided that the landlord, having such premises, say four people, say. should be liable for the roof, and if should take bookings for about a dozen, the Board called on the tenant to repair the roof, would not the tenant have his and sleep the remainder out. remedy. in the Court if the 'landlord Mr Luft: I didn't suggest four persons. after notification by the tenant failed to Quite likely, he could take bookings carry out his obligation? for ten. He could feed them, but the Mr Luft: No doubt. others could be slept out. I don't know whether that answers the hon. mem- Mr Kaneen: When would this remedy ber's question. be effected? After his business was taken off him? Deemster Kneale: It is like running a restaurant. Mr Luft: That is possible. • Mr Bolton: Might I ask one question, The Attorney-General: Would the Your Excellency? When Mr Luft was landlord not have to do the repair? before the House of Keys in October. Mr Luft: At a later date. 1957, when the Bill came before' the The Attorney-General: The tenant House, I understand he said the Asso- could not be put out of business. ciation were wholeheartedly opposed to any system of compulsory registration Mr Luft: If he was able to do that and grading, "It is untrue to say that repair. it is perfectly true these regu- we are opposed to any system of control lations don't give him time. They don't whatsoever." And briefly, the system provide notice. they preferred is a system of licensing. Mr .7. M. Cain: I beg to move the If complaints were received and were following resolution:— justified the licence should be removed. Whereas at a sitting of Tynwald held on That was the system they preferred to May 21st, 1958, it was agieed that the matter discuss. The main difference seems to of the Tourist Accommodation Regulations, 1958, made by the Isle of Man Tourist Board me is that there would be no inspection under the provisions of the Tourist (Isle of until there was a complaint. Man} Act. 1958. be adjourned for further dis- cussion. Mr Luft: Resolved,—that the said Tourist Accom- modations. 1958, be and the same are hereby Mr Bolton: Where the present regu- approved. lations provide for inspection before. The Tourist Board was given power Mr Luft: Yes. They would be pre- under section 2, sub-section (1). of the pared to accept compulsory registration. Tourist (Isle of Man) Act, 1958, to make They do object to down-right inspection. regulations governing the introduction They think an inspection after a com- and operation of schemes for the inspec- plaint is justified. But I understand tion, registration and grading of that complaints are made very lightly accommodation used by visitors, sub- by visitors these days, and if they have ject to the proviso that Tynwald should the slightest cause, they will readily approve such regulations before they complain. are brought into force. Hon. members Mr Kaneen: The Association you of the Court will recall that the desir- represent, wish to emphasise the point ability of introducing a scheme of that the tenant is going to be liable for inspection, registration and grading was any structural alteration that might be one of the recommendations of the Visiting Industry Com- necessary and thaii the tenant might report of the lose his livelihood. mission. On this subject, the report says, The Commission feels that the Mr Luft: That is so. provision of a high_ standard of accom-

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of 284 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 modation and food in every hotel or the Visiting industry Commission dated boarding-house catering for visitors in a December, 1955, be received and that holiday resort is the most important the Isle of Man Tourist Board be asked factor in deciding the popularity of that to submit proposals in regard to each of resort and the incidence of visitors who the recommendations and observations return year after year . . ." and again contained therein, except those sum- "It is true to say that in many of the marised at recommendation 5 on page 4 British resorts, the general standard of of the printed'copy. This relates to the hotel accommodation provided is higher proposed Casino. On April 18th, 1956, than that offered in the Isle of Man." the Tourist Board, following the instruc- arid further on "Nevertheless, the visi- tion given on February 22nd, 1956, came tor, without the assistance of previous forward with the following recommen- recoinmendation or personal know- dation. "The Board recommend that a ledge,.must be in a position of difficulty scheme of registration and grading of in determining the type and class of hotels and boarding-houses in the Isle establishment which he is to select for of Man be introduced but further his holiday. The introduction of 'hotel recommend that the scheme be spread registration and grading as operated in over a five-year period, and that during Jersey, Eire and certain continental the first two years the scheme should countries, has proved of inestimable operate on some kind of voluntary basis value by assuring the visitor before he yet to be devised." On the occasion of arrives at the resort that he is to have this debate six members of the Court a standard of comfort, service and food saw fit to speak on the motion. The commensurate with the tariff he is hon. member for Ayre, Mr Radcliffe, prepared to pay. The Isle of Man is in did not agree with the voluntary basis. a position to introduce a similar scheme The hon. member for West Douglas, Mr and the Commission feels that the Isle Bolton saw difficulties in introducing of Man Government should introduce a grading and the hon. member for Ram- scheme of registration and grading for sey, Mr Teare, wanted more forthright all establishments in the Isle of Man action to deal with bad houses, which catering for more than six visitors. he rightly pointed out. would be immune Whilst it may be that the number of under a voluntary scheme. Not one houses in the Isle of Man giving unsatis- member opposed the principle of regis- factory service is very few, the damage tration and inspection and the motion which only one or two establishments was carried unanimously. I make these coulcl.do to the good name of the resort points so that members will appreciate justifies steps being taken by the res- that the Board, in proceeding with these ponsible tourist authority to prevent proposals have done so with a mandate such an eventuality. ' At the moment from this Court, in the belief that their very little can be done if an hotel is action would find approval of hon. found to be giving unsatisfactory ser- members. The Visiting Industry Com- vice. The Commission feel that such a mission quoted the schemes of hotel situation should not be allowed to registration and grading operating else- continue." The Commission's recom- where, and members of the Board have mendation read, The Commission made it their business to examine these recornrnend that a scheme of schemes and, in fact, have made visits registration grading and inspec- to both and Eire for this purpose. I do not propose to deal tion . of all hotels ond boarding- with the technicalities of their various houses in the Isle of Man should be schemes, although complete information introduced." The report of the Com- thereon is available should members mission was debated in Tynwald on wish to have this .information. The February 21st and 22nd February, 1956, Tourist Board came to the conclusion, and the Court agreed that the report of however, that all that was required in . . Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee - or Th-ree "o1 Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 285 the Isle of Man. was a simple scheme, state of repair that visitors should not giving registration and inspection, and be expected to 'stay there, then the possibly, a voluntary scheme of grading Board will surely be entitled to demand on very simple lines. It was not con- that they be put into a reasonable state sidered that a voluntary scheme of of repair and failing that, that they registration would meet the case and the should not be used for the accommoda- representatives of the Douglas lintel tio of our visitors. The second point is Association appeared_ to concur with that the premises must conform . to this opinion. If the proposals before the minimum standards of sanitation, ven- Court to-day are approved, it may be tilation or safety. Again I ask the Court that at some later date the Board will to note that the word here is "mini- ask the Court to consider a scheme of mum"—minimum standards. It is not grading, but that question is not before the standard which we would expect in us to-day. The draft regulations which a scheme of grading. It is the standard are now being considered have been in which a reasonable person could expect the hands of members for some weeks, to rind in any premises, bearing in mind and are, I submit, quite simple to the tariff charged. The third point says 'understand. Many of the regulations that the Board may refuse to register deal only with the machinery of regis- the premises if the dining or sleeping tration, and I do not propose to deal facilities if the premises are inadequate with these portions of the regulations in for the number of persons to be accom- detail. I propose, therefore, to explain modated therein. Other schemes of briefly only those portions of the regu- registration and grading which apply in lations which are important. Regula- the Channel Island and in Eire go much tions 1, 2. 3 and 4, provide that all further than this and lay down definite accommodation used by visitors shall be standards which must apply. They say registered with the Tourist Board, and that each visitor must have 600 cubic until registration has been approved, feet of air space in his bedroom. They shall not be let to visitors. To this lay down the number of bathrooms and principle there are certain exceptions, toilets which are to be provided in the most important of which are the each house. We are not attempting to very small houses catering for less than lay down such standards. We fully five visitors at any one time. However, realise that you cannot apply these all houses which are let furnished to standards to many of the properties in visitors, irrespective of the number of the Isle of Man and indeed it would be visitors to be accommodated must unfair to do so. All the Board say is register. Regulations 5, 6 and 7, set out that the essential facilities for dining the machinery for dealing with applica- and for sleeping should be adequate tions for registration. Regulations 8 and what is adequate or what is inade- and 9 lay down the grounds upon which quate will be a matter of fact. The the Board may, and I emphasise the fourth point says that the premises must word 'may," refuse or cancel a registra- conform to minimum standards of tion. If members of the Court will look cleanliness and orderliness, I am sure at the eight grounds upon which the that every member of the Court will Board may act, I am sure that they will agree with me that no matter what agree that they are not unduly onerous. other deficiencies may exist in a house, They say that the Board may refuse to the visitors have a right to expect that register any tourist premises if, in the at least it shall be clean. Orderliness is opinion of the Board, the premises are more difficult to define, but members of structurally in a bad state of repair. It the Court will be aware that in recent, is the intention of the Board that these years certain stories have circulated powers will only be used in the very last regarding hotels and boarding-houses in resort, but if premises are in such a bad the Isle of Man where young people are

Tourist Accommodation" Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 286 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 permitted to carry on in a noisy and are justified. Neither does it bring any disgraceful manner through all the credit to the Isle of Man when, as has hours of the night, thereby disturbing happened, many people walk out of an the rest and tranquility of visitors who hotel within 24 hours of theIr arrival have paid for, and are entitled to. peace because of the conditions existing and quiet at times when they are asleep. therein. I say that such a situation I know. this is a difficult problem. and ought not to be allowed to continue and providing a proprietor makes every I hope the Court will agree with my effort to control his house, he has point of view. -Regulations 10 and 11 nothing to fear in the operation of this make provision for the exemption of regulation. The next point says that certain establishments from the appli- the food-and service and the furnishings cation of these regulations. Regulation of the premises must be of a reasonable 12 sets out the procedure to be followed standard. We do not expect every in the event of an appeal from the hotel and boarding-house in the Isle of Board's decision. • In drafting these Man to be equipped as a luxury hotel. safeguards the Board has honestly The furnishings and service, and indeed tried to be absolutely fair to the indus- the food which is provided depend on try. The final decision on these matters the tariff which is charged, and if the rests, not with the Board, but with an visitor is only paying 14s per day, as impartial and independent tribunal, some will be paying during the 1959 before whom the Board must appear on holiday season, theri he must expect an equal looting with the hotelier whose food, service and furnishings commen- record is under investigation. While surate with that tariff. Our only an- the appeal is proceeding the premises xiety is to protect the visitor and ensure concerned are automatically registered. that no matter what the tariff he pays I believe that it will be but rarely that he shall obtain value for his money. The this appeal procedure Will have to be next point deals with the management, put in motion. Resolution 13 deals with and we say the management of the the display of certificates. Regulation premises ought to be reasonably com- 14 deals with the inspection of premises petent. Without a competent manage- —which the Board believes to be an ment no hotel can give satisfactory ser- integral part of any scheme. Remove vice. The personal attention which the the power of inspection and you nullify visitor gets is by far the most important the whole object of the regulations. part of his holiday. I think it is obvious May I say right away that there is -no that the Board have a right to expect intention 'on the part of the Board' to the management to be up to their res- appoint a large number of highly paid ponsibilities. The next to the last point officials, who will descend on the indus- says that if an applicant has conducted try to make a nuisance of themselves. his business during the previous 12 In framing these regulations. the Board months in such a manner as to bring ha S written in certain safeguards. serious discredit on the Isle of Man, Firstly, the inspection_ may only take then he shall not be allowed to continue place at a reasonable time. Secondly, in business. I know that this is a very the proprietor of the business—or a serious- remedy. It is a remedy which responsible person acting on his behalf, cannot be, and I give you my assurance, shall have been contacted before any will'not be lightly enforced. But it inspection takes place. Thirdly, I give refleCts no credit to the Isle of Man this assurance to the Court, that if this when _reports appear in important scheme is approved to-day every first national newspapers of unsatisfactory application for registration received this service and conditions at hotels which year will be granted by the Board might - be specified. Conditions which without inspection—everyone will start the Board might have reason to believe with a clean sheet. These, therefore,

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. •

TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 287 are the regulations which the Board force a tenant to undertake responsibi- are submitting for your approval. Let lies which are not properly his to us turn now to the opposition. We shoulder. This is a very complex have heard counsel who stated the problem. It is certainly not a problem objections of his clients to these regu- which can be solved by regulations. In lations. The views of the hotels and respect of any tenancy there should be boarding-houses were clearly set out in in existence a tenancy agreement which the petition which was presented to the clearly stipulates where responsibility Court in May of last year. I do not for repairs lies. If the tenancy agree- propose to touch upon all the objections ment is silent, then there is in existence, which have been made, I would like to legislation which clearly fixes respon- dwell briefly on the more important sibility. If, as I understand is some- contentions. But before I go further I times the case, tenants have taken res- should like to pay a tribute to the ponsibility for work which normally is manner in which the representatives of the landlord's responsibility then it the various trade associations and in would be quite wrong for the Board to particular the chairman and vice- endeavour to place the obligations chairman of the Douglas Residential which the tenant has accepted, back on Hotels and Boarding House Association the landlord's shoulders. Furthermore, have conducted their case in the long any attempt to do so would be ultra negotiations which have taken place. vires the powers of the Board. There is Although on certain aspects of the also fairly generous Government finan- scheme, we have not been able to agree, cial assistance available to deal with we have certainly tried to reach agree- this problem. I do not myself believe ment, and if we have failed it is not for that this problem is of the magnitude want of understanding each other's which the industry has represented, and point of view. Let us examine the all I can say is, that if in practice, diffi- matters where divergencies of opinion culties arise which appear to require exist. Firstly the industry believes that amending regulations—or even legisla- these regulations, if they are to be tion, the Board will not hesitate to applied at all should apply to all houses, come back to Tynwald for the powers even the very smallest, and that it is necessary to deal with this problem. rvrong to exempt those houses catering Thirdly, the industry takes the view that for less than five persons. In reply to inspections of premises should only take this, the Board's opinion is that place following a complaint which had although this might ideally be desirable been made against such establishment. in practice it is inoperable. It would. The Board feel that they must have the mean that the Board would have to take power to inspect at any time that they cognisance of every house and every think it necessary. I should like to say person who offered accommodation to that the Board has compromised in friends, or, indeed, relatives, during the every possible direction that they can in summer. Legislation which cannot be order to meet objections which have enforced is bad legislation and the been received, to this particular regu- Board cannot see their way to endorse lation. They feel that if they were to this suggestion. Secondly, the industry compromise further on this point the submits that the regulations, by giving whole object of the regulations would be the Board power to refuse or cancel defeated. If we were to accept a registration on grounds of structural situation whereby our, inspector could deficiencies. may, in practice, put a only go to a house following a complaint person out of business, through the then the Board would be placed in an refusal of a landlord to accept an obli-, almost impossible situation. First of gation to put premises in a satisfactory all, we should have to proire that a state of structural repair, or thereby complaint had been made. This can-

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288 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1_959

not always be done with ease. Many refuse or cancel a registration is the one visitors might refuse to put their com- section of this 'scheme which has caused plaint into writing; many complaints the most discussion and examination. come to the Board as a result of hear- It is, common knowledge that it has say evidence. Whilst I agree that no created a sharp divergence of opinion importance should be attached to one even among members of the Board and or two complaints or to hearsay a suggestion has been made that some evidence, when a general impression is form of financial penalty or fine should created that a particular establishment be imposed instead. The Board have is giving unsatusTactory service, the endeavoured to meet this suggestion but Board ought to have the right to be able have been legally advised, and have had to go and verify the facts if only to to accept, that the statute does not clear the reputation of the hotel con- empower them to do so. The Act pro- cerned. In this connection, it is in- vides for financial penalties, recoverable teresting to note that at one time the by summary proceedings in the Courts Douglas Residential Hotel and Boarding for failure to comply with the regula- House Association took the view that tions. The Act sets out the matters in the complainant ought to be brought to respect of whichl regulations may be the Isle of Man, and be cross- made and the Board are confined to examined before a tribunal as to the these. Power is given to the Board to substance of his complaint. I can only set up standards with which businesses say that if this procedure were to be or premises must comply to qualify for followed, there would be remarkably registration, and also for grading pur- few complaints, but that is not to say poses if the Board decides to formulate that dissatisfaction might still not exist a grading scheme. But failure to reach with a number of houses. In any event. these standards cannot be made the neither the Board, nor this Court nor subject of legal proceedings. They are any court of law could compel the of necessity standards prescribed for attendance of a person who has left the specific purposes and non-compliance Island. I do want to make it quite clear cannot be punished in the courts. The at this stage that in the opinion of the Board has no power to provide Board the number of houses which do for standards for businesses or give unsatisfactory service is very premises with pecuniary penalties small, but I maintain that the Isle of recoverable in the courts for Man is in such competition at the failure to maintain them. The present day that we cannot allow even "penalty" for failure to qualify for a very small number of hotels and registration must, -therefore, be refusal boarding-houses to besmirch the good or cancellation of registration. I will name of the Island in this way. Every give a categorical assurance, however, visitor who leaves the shores of the Isle that no person will have their livelihood of Man disgruntled and dissatisfied is a taken away from them until they have bad ambassador. The damage which he been given every opportunity of im- can do to the Isle of Man by talking proving the accommodation. There is of the unfortunate experiences which he no intention on the part of the Board to may have had is very great and no put people out of business unless every amount of publicity can eradicate an other means of persuasion has failed. It impression which. is so created. The is the Board's intention, and I am sure final major point deals with the it will be the intention of every subse- penalties. The opponents of this scheme quent Tourist Board, that these regula- say the only penalty is the taking away tions shall be interpreted with sympathy of a man's business, and they have and with understanding. bearing in represented this as unduly harsh and mind, however, the over-riding con- onerous. The taking of this power to sideration that the interests of the

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald, TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 289 visitor must be protected. Rather than falls, primarily on the standard offered financial penalties, even were they by our hotels and boarding-houses. The legally Possible, I prefer to rely upon great majority have a high reputation advice and guidance. Only if every other for giving unequalled service for a very method has failed, would there be low cost. A very small minority can recourse to the last step of cancellation ruin the efforts of the majority. What- of registration—a decision which lies, ever the method used to deal with that finally, not with the Board but with the minority, something should be done to appeals tribunal approved by this maintain the Island's reputation and I Court, And, finally, may I touch briefly submit that these regulations are a upon the allegation that there has not step in the right direction. been full consultation with the industry. Mr Kerruish:. I beg to second and That charge I emphatically deny. I will reserve my remarks, say that right along the Board has con- centrated upon reaching agreement with Mr Simcocks: Your Excellency, when the Douglas Residential Hotel and the tourist regulations were considered Boarding House Association, believing in May last year I stated categorically that this Association represented a fair that I was personally in favour of the cross-section of the industry. If agree- principle of registration. I am still in ment was possible with the Douglas favour and I entirely agree with what Association then also, the Board believe, the chairman has said about the need to agreement would easily be found with protect the good name of the Island by other interested trade associations. registration as an insurance that the Meetings attended by representatives of visitors are not ill-treated in their hotels the Douglas Association were held on and boarding-houses. Last May. how- January 7th, 1957; November 25th, 1957: ever, I was one of those who voted for January 27th, 1958; February 10th, the reference back of the regulations 1958; March 17th,. 1958; April 14th, which were then put forward, because I 1958: November 10th, 1958; and 24th believed that comparatively trifling November 24th, 1958. In addition to amendments to those regulations would these meetings, there has been a steady make them acceptable to the industry. now of correspondence. The Board now Never in my wildest dreams, however, believes that it has reached the stage did I imagine that the amendments where further negotiations would be would be so trifling as the amendment fruitless. A particular task was laid which we are now considering and, in upon the Board by Tynwald, namely to fact, the alterations, as counsel has said, bring forward schemes for hotel regis- amount to something like three words. tration, etc. This the Board has now I would have thought, Your Excellency, done and presents their scheme to the that the Board would have taken the Court for approval. If the Court be- opportunity of consultation with the believes that these regulations are too industry since last May. The hon. onerous, then the Board will take note chairman has categorically denied the of the wishes of the Court. But I do charge that the Board has not had ade- firmly believe that under existing Acts quate consultation with the' industry, the Board has produced the best pos- yet in the dates which he himself has sible regulations to deal with a position quoted there have been only two meet- which has aroused much public interest ings since last May and then only two since it was first mooted by the Visiting meetings with the Douglas Association. Industry Commission three years ago. In other words, in eight months which Whatever are our views on this parti- the Board had to consult with the indus- cular problem. I am sure that we all try to make these regulations acceptable agree that the reputation and success of to the Court, knowing as they must have this Island as a holiday resort, stands, or done the wishes of the Court, the most

Tourist • 'Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 290 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 that the Board has done is to have two substituted. It is those words which are meetings with the Douglas Association. the real danger. In the legal profession Now I cannot speak for the Douglas the inclusion of them is a well-known Association, but I did attend a meeting expedient in drafting documents when it of the committee of the Port Erin and is desired that there should be no fur- Port St. Mary Association as recently as ther argument and reference to the last Wednesday and there I was in- courts is to be avoided. It is used in formed that while the Association did the legal profession when drafting wills not welcome registration, they had where a class of person is to be deter- always accepted the principle, and on a mined, leaving it to the opinion of the number of occasions they so informed executor as to whether‘or not an indivi- the Board in writing. Now, • sir, one dual comes in that class. If a person would have thought, therefore, that the wants to leave his estate to a person Board would have at least communi- who has looked after him in his last ill- cated with the Southern Association as ness an advocate who knows his job being at least one Association which draws up a will which provides that the accepted the principle. But I am told, estate is left to the person who, in the sir, that having heard nothing from the opinion of the executor, looked after Board the Southern Association wrote him in his last illness. That means that to ask if it might take part in negotia- instead of a number of persons coming tions. All that the Southern Associa- forward and saying they had a hand in tion received was a formal acknow- it only the person whom the executor ledgement followed by a copy of the decides benefits. It is also used in printed regulations. In other words, the articles of association of a limited com- Port Erin and Port St. Mary Associa- pany with reference to the value of tion has had no opportunity of being shares by its auditor. All the auditor consulted in this matter at all. Yet has to certify is that "in his opinion" they were, and are still, prepared to the shares are worth 35s, or some other accept the principle of registration. I figure and there is no further argument. am, therefore, going to move the refer- In this case the Board has decided that ence back of these regulations to give in its opinion the management is at the Board another opportunity—and I fault. Clearly this would mean that no think it must be regarded as the final appeal against the Board could ever suc- opportunity—to get down to the job of ceed. If the words "in the opinion of the meeting the industry in the hope of Board" remain in the regulations all the reaching agreement. I assure the Court Board have to prove to justify with- and Your Excellency with all sincerity holding or cancelling a registration is that this is not just a device to kill the the fact that it held a certain opinon, ir- regulations. I believe amendments respective of how ill-founded this opinion could be made in very few particulars might be. You will see, therefore, that which would make the regulations the pretence of making provision for an acceptable. If I may,refer to the points appeal is nothing more than a pretence. which should be referred to the first is Secondly, sub-paragraphs 1 and 2 of clause 8. • This is the regulation which paragraph 1 of regulation 8 seem to be gives the Board power to refuse regis- completely out of context, and should tration if "in the opinion of the Board," be struck out, as power to deal with followed by eight ,sub-sections giving their subject matter already is in being. reasons for withholding registration. Also it would be manifestly unjust if a The main objection I see is the inclu- tenant were to be prevented from carry- sion of the words in the opinion of the ing on his business due to the unwilling- Board" which should be deleted and the ness of his landlord to make the tourist words "having regard to the character premises suitable for business which and locality of the tourist premises" enabled the landlord to demand rent

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20. 1959 291 commensurate with the premises being the Board" should, therefore, be used for the tourist business. The inserted after the words "regulations" proper thing to do with this point is to on line 5. paragraph 1. We then come introduce fresh legislation to deal with to the portion of this paragraph which it. Another regulation to which I take gives power to inspect premises where it objection is number 14. This, the Court is suspected that business is being will be aware, gives the Board or any carried on in contravention of the regu- member of it or any officer of it duly lations. There are many people living authorised power to visit and inspect in large private houses with four or five tourist premises at all reasonable times. bedrooms. It appears to me that this Why the members of the Board should regulation would give an inspector the want power to do the job of the Board's right to enter any house of this kind and officers completely defeats me. It is interrogate the householder under often thought that my friend, the hon. threat of a £50 fine just because he member for Douglas West, Mr Bolton, thought he was carryingon business has somewhat authoritarian views but there. This belief might be completely even he, I am sure, would not want ill-founded, but, nevertheless, he power to stop a public-service vehicle at apparently has the right to enter my any reasonable time and then personally house and interrogate my wife under inspect it for roadworthiness, But that threat of a £50 fiine. Surely if an is what the Board wish to take to them- inspector wishes to inspect such pre- selves. I think it is undesirable that mises he should obtain a warrant they should have that power. The first authorising him to do so. There should seven words of paragraph 1 of regula- be added, therefore,. to the end of para- tion 14 should, therefore, be deleted and graph 1 of regulation 14 the words in consequence the words "it or" on line "provided, nevertheless, that in the case 3 of the paragraph and line 7. The of the last before mentioned premises Board say they must have power to the said officer of the Board shall have inspect premises at any time but it obtained from a Justice of the Peace seems to me unnecessary for the Board (not being a member of the Board, and to have more than power to inspect each there are three of them on the Board- year when an application is made and laughter)—a warrant authorising the whenever there has been a complaint said officer to enter and inspect the which is prima • facie valid. The real sarne." •Thus it will be seen that the complaint of the Board has not been only points I have raised are five com- that it could not inspect—it admits that paratively small amendments to two its inspectors are always allowed to do regulations only to bring the whole so voluntarily—but that on a com- of them into a form which I be- plaint being proved that they can do lieve would make them acceptable to nothing about it. But the regulations the trade. I think if the Board would take the regulations back and amend give them more than adequate power to them in the way I have suggested the do something about it. so I cannot industry would accept them. You will imagine that it is necessary for them certainly not hear any shouts of joy to have power to enter premises at any even then, but I believe they will, in the time. Even the best of us can be'caught spirit of compromise, accept regulations on the wrong foot if our activities are amended in this form. It is for this inspected at any time and I submit that reason that I am going to move the this power is unnecessary and repres- reference back to the Board of the regu- sive. The Board should have to have a lations and that the Board be instructed complaint before having the right to to re-open negotiations with the various inspect except at the beginning of the bodies representing the trade. season when application is made. The words in respect of which a complaint Mr Coole: I beg leave to second the which is prima facie valid is received by amendment proposed by Mr Simcocks,

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 292 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

Mr Nivison: I would like to support we must concede that the industry have the amendment which has been pro- the interests of their own houses at posed by Mr Simcocks, but if the heart. and also the interests of the amendment fails—I would like to make Island. I think al-so the Tourist Board my position clear-1 am going to vote have the interest of the Island at heart. against the regulations. I know the "big But, finally, in that particular speech of guns" will be following me and I want to the same date, I concluded by saying: give a little history of the matter as far "I hope, Mr Speaker; that there may be as I am concerned. I was a member of some means found to get closer to the the Visiting Industry Commission which industry, and that suggestions might recommended that there should be some come forward that would meet the form of registration, grading and in- desires of this House and Tynwald with spection of boarding-houses. I was a the fullest co-operation of the industry member of the Tynwald Court who concerned." The regulations have been received this Commission's report and it presented to us very similarly to those was received without any dissentors. I in May last. Since that time, the indus- was a member of the House of Keys who try, or the organised part of the industry subsequently passed the Tourist Act, in Douglas have intimated to the Board 1958, which empowered the Board to that they are displeased completely with make regulations to carry out such the regulations as presented. In the things as grading and inspection. But I chairman's speech, he said that negotia- will not be a member of the Court which tions have broken down. We have is going to pass restrictions as are con- arrived at an historical day to-day. If tained in the regulations before us. I this Court is to impose upon members was a member of the Court who last of the community a regulation or res- May decided to ask the Tourist Board triction against an industry and have to look again at these regulations. The not brought evidence that one person hon. member for Rushen has pointed out requires it—and no evidence has been that they have looked again and had two presented to us that one person is in meetings since May, but they have, on favour—then this day will be historic. their own admission, only made small What other industry can we imagine alterations which do not alter the prin- doing that? The agricultural industry? ciple of the regulations, They have Can we imagine them accepting a reso- come forward again with the same lution of which nobody has approved or regulations which were not found to be shown any desire for the contents of the agreeable to this Court in May. I want regulation? Recently a meeting was to say that this question of getting closer held, and meetings can be inspiring. to the industry is not new on my behalf. We found not only the organised people When the Bill was before the house in in the industry being angered. We 1957—on page 127 of your verbatim if found the little woman in the small you want to check—I stated: "I feel that house at the top of the town angered. one of the most disturbing factors of They were disturbed and worried. this clause"—the clause relating to Mr McFee: Steamed up! registration—"is the fact that it does appear that the bulk of the people en- Mr Nivison: They- were not members gaged in the industry are not opposed of this Association. I think it is wrong. to the principle." Then it goes on about Why should these people be disturbed? the members of the Boarding House It is clear to me. Not because of any- Association and the joy and credit they thing that anybody has said, or what take from becoming members of the any advocate should say; not because of Association, and they have pride in dis- any thing that may be surmised, but playing the badge of their Association because of the writings in these regula- outside their hotels. Many people know tions. In paragraph 4, for instance; that they, are of certain standard, but "On the expiration of a period of 30

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 293 days from the coming into force of these too far. They should define these regu- regulations"—that would be 30 days lations more clearly. I believe, Your from to-day—"no persons shall lodge Excellency, that the Board have made tourists in premises unless the premises very little attempt to alter the regula- are either registered or examined tions since they were presented last according to the provisions." May. I believe many members of the Mr J. M. Cain: There is no exception Court hoped that would happen.' It is to that. unusual to find so many people con- nected in the Douglas area with the Mr Nivison: You may not be aware of boarding-house industry. Yet we have any objections, but it goes on, as we have learned from learned counsel. the members of Douglas divided. I With regard to registration, it would be don't know how they will vote. I possible for you to refuse registration, believe, although I don't know whether although you have said you woUld let it is true—that the Board themselves them go this year. have not come with a unanimous deci- sion on these regulations. I do know the Mr J. M. Cain: Don't you believe me? organised part of the industry are opposed to the regulations. I do know a Mr Nivison: You might not be there. great proportion, at least of the general Mr J. M. Cain: Thank you! people in the industry, are opposed to the regulations. I think, Your Excel- Mr Ni vison: We can only go by the lency, in every industry, regardless of regulations. what industry it is, we should hear of Mr Ca!lister: He may resign. (There the strong opposition' towards anything was applause from the public gallery at that might be imposed upon it. this point.) Mr J. M. Cain: Not at all. Mr Nivison: It says nobody shall lodge Mr 1VIcFee: You have admitted they visitors unless they are registered, and don't know what they are. it is said the Board may refuse to regis- ter unless certain standards are ap- Mr Nivison: No. What the opinion proveth and the standards have been of the Board is. mentioned in the speech by Mr Cain. "Power is given to the Board to set up Mr J. M. Cain: Nobody wants to know. standards." There could also be Mr Nivison: I am only going on what grading powers if the Board decide to is contained in the regulations. The formulate a grading scheme. We agree members of the Board are people who with that. But nobody has given us the are sincere in their wishes to improve slightest information as to what these the industry. This Court should standards should be. I have spoken to accept the amendment which has been some of the little people who say, "I proposed by Mr Simcocks. And if it have heard it said that we must have falls, I will vote against these regula- two bathrooms in a house of my size." I tions. said, "Where did you get that from?" Nobody knows. Not even the Board Mr A. J. Team: When these regula- knows. I have heard it said, "We must tions came before this Court I was one have a certain number of wash-hand of those who voted for referring them basins, or lavatory provision." "Who back. I am in agreement with the prin- told you that?" I say to them. We ciple of registration. But the methods have heard it," they say. It should be by which the Tourist Board seek to laid down. If these standards were accomplish them are wrong. As the last more clear, the people would say, "Here speaker has pointed out, for example, is a sincere desire to improve the accom- clause 8 is so vague that nobody knows modation." I think they are going a bit what it means. What are these stan-

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 294 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 dards? In the season, people are glad to Our responsibility is to make the Isle get accommodation.. In years gone by of Man one of the top resorts in the loudspeakers have even gone round United Kingdom. We are surrounded town asking people in small houses to by sea and we have the control of the take in the overflow. What inspectors Island in our own hands, and are we are there to say that premises like these afraid to take that control because a small houses are not reasonable. Mr noise is made by a small number of Simcocks has pointed out that these people? I hope that the statement the people, these inspectors, will go to chairman of the Tourist Board has made inspect houses, and talk to the women in connection with the regulations will of the house, perhaps. Who will give be published in full. The people who them power to walk into a house? Police officers, even, haven't the right. to . read that statement can have no objec- go into a cluo. If things are wrong in a tions to the regulations then. I know club, a noliceman has no right of entry. what some of the talking points are He can pass the word on to his sergeant meant to lead to, I have heard Mr that something is wrong, who the.n Nivison say that nobbdy has favoured passes on the information to the inspec- them. That is not right. I do know tor. who then passes on the word to the one person— chief constable or the chief inspector. Mr Nivison: Where does he live—in Then if he thinks it is worthwhile he can Ballaugh? (Laughter.) issue a warrant. Then he can go, but only in plain clothes. But anyone can Mr Radcliffe: I have been told—a lady eater my own home under these regu- has told me that she is not afraid of any lations. He—the inspector—can come inspector entering her premises.• in without a warrant. That is Members: Name them. altogether wrong. This power of inspec- tion is going too far. I should like to The Governor: I don't want names say more on this matter but I will col., mentioned. tent myself with what I have said, ana Mr Radcliffe: Your Excellency, why recall what has been said by others. My are objections raised to some of these intention is to vote for the amendment, talking pnints? I say that the few and, if that falls, to vote for the rejec- people who are making the noise are tion of the regulations. afraid of inspection. They fear inspec- Mr Radcliffe: Your Excellency, I am tion and the reason they fear inspection supporting the regulations as presented is that they would be prevented from by the chairman of the Tourist Board, giving the Isle of Man a bad name? and I take strong exception to what Mr If they are likely, to give the Island Nivison has said in that he does riot a bad name they are not fit to be believe that the Board has made much running such premises for visitors. The endeavour to meet the people engaged chairman of the Tourist Board has in the industry to discuss these regula.• stated that very few of this type could tions. I am not one of the "big guns, bring the whole of the Isle of Man and not connected with the visiting in- down, and because of this few are we dustry through my constituency; and I going to jeopardise the whole works? It have not been subjected to pressure of is some eighteen months or two years any kind. But I have been thinking on ago since the question of guests signing what is best for the visiting industry. a guest register in a boarding-house was We have seen in the Press and heard raised here in Tynwald. That was elsewhere a 10 of points raised. Some objected to—it was objected to as of these points criticise the regulations placing a most onerous burden on the but most of them are to the effect that proprietor. That was a lot of we cannot do without the regulations. "twaddle." This is imposed on any

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of. Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 295 proper guest-house in every part of the mendable publicity drive throughout the civilised world, but somebody in this country at present and I cannot imagine Court raised the point of placing hard- these proceedings to-day are going to be ship on these people. Here to-day we of benefit to the Isle of Man. I feel that have more of this kind of thing. Going too much emphasis is going to be laid further, Your Excellency, as far as some on the alleged failings of the Isle of of the people leading the opposition are Man. We appear not to have done any- concerned, I know, and they know, that thing right since we got this corn- they run very high-class establishments founded report—(waving a copy of the and they themselves are not afraid of Visiting Industry Commission's report inspectors walking in on their premises. of 1958). If any member will take the Why are they leading this opposition trouble now to read further the report then? Is it that they don't want regis- of the case made for the setting up of tration or are they afraid of the income this Commission in 1955, he will see that tax people or infractions of the liquor it is a wonder we are alive to-day as a laws? What is the reason? Theie must be visiting resort. What the whole Com- some reason. The fact remains that mission has drafted applies to our their premises are first-class establish- alleged failures and you can pick up ments. The reason must be something of which we know nothing. Basically I any page and find some modicum of complaint. I am sorry to say so, with hope the support of this Court is given all due respect to the Commission. Now to the regulations, to which in them- Your Excellency, we have been sub- selves members cannot take exception. They have been put forward by the . jected to certain pressure in this cam- paign. It has been a very well-conducted chairman of the Tourist Board in a most logical and balanced manner and they campaign. Some have been described should appeal to the members of this as leaders of the resistance, which I thought was amusing, but I personally Court. I ask the Court to support these regulations, which are for the benefit did my best to avoid indicating which of the Isle of Man, and they should dis- way I would vote, because I said that regard the few who would sacrifice the we must at least wait until the chairman of the Board had made the Board's Island. They should be brought up to the standard of the other premises. case. He has presented that case very well, but he is asking us to endorse Mr Stephen: Your Excellency, hon. regulations which are quite unworkable. members should not think I am going During the last few weeks I have had round the bend if I should ask how long conversations with some of the is a piece of string or how big is a lump boardinghouse keepers and I think that of coal, but it would be just as logical were they given the opportunity, they to use expressions like those as to could suggest certain standards which speak of a person being "reasonably might be embodied in the regulations, competent." To my mind, to use the but certainly not regulations which expression a man is not "reasonably include at least three unworkable competent" you might as well say a man provisions. They are in section 8. The should not drive a motor-car unless he policy of the Tourist Board on any is reasonably sober— occasion- must, to my mind, be judged by one yardstick—will it bring more A Member: And he should not. people to the Isle of Man. I don't think what has been presented to us to-day is Mr Stephen: Your Excellency, with calculated to do that. I don't agree that regard to these regulations, I think the accommodation in the Isle of Man is so Tourist Board have mistimed and mis- bad that so much attention must be interpreted their duty; mistimed be- focussed on it. One would imagine cause they are engaged in a very corn- from this that the good houses are in the

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald, 296 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 minority. If the contrary is the ease, representatives were asked to consult then we are taking a sledge-hammer to members of the trade to see what regu- crack a nut. We can deal with it in lations would be workable — what some way without having these very regulations would be likely to achieve cumbersome regulations. Whatever results. They accepted the views, of way we are going to vote on this matter people in the trade, and the regulations to-day somebody in the Board is going as passed by Parliament were those to be wrong. I understand—it is no that had been largely drawn up and secret—that the Board is not unanimous accepted by the trade. Now I in this matter. Your Excellency, I believe that the Association generally in would go so far as to say that these the Island quite believe this: that they regulations are before us on the basis admit certain standards should be4laid of three votes out of five. Who the down. I think they are prepared to three are we don't know, although we admit it, and if the- amendment is may guess. There are two members carried I do suggest that we should go holding one view and the three other out and challenge the Association and members are holding another view. The show a draft of the r egulations pre- Court must make a decision on the scribing the standards instead of leaving matter. I think that the whole policy it to the vagueness of clause B. If the of the Tourist Board is due for overhaul amendment is rejected, and the regula- and the only way to do that is for us to tions are rejected, I hope the way will appoint a new Board. It is a matter of be clear to arrive at a solution to this great importance in the political life of problem. the Island. A year ago we had the ex- perience of the policy of another Board Mr Irving: Your Excellency, I am glad being challenged and the Board to see that at least two out of five mem- resigned. They did the right thing on bers who opPosed these regulations are that occasion. They had to resign. I at last beginning to show their hands. think it is quite right in a political I do not want to deal with the onerous Board of that nature that when their terms of the regulations. I think we policy is rejected they should recognise have learned sufficiently from learned the paramount authority of Tynwald. I counsel that the terms are indeed think that any Board that gets such a onerous, but I think the first thing to rebuff as the Tourist Board is facing consider is what are we trying to do to-day, they should take it and let us get with these regulations. Now, Mr down to the question of appointing a Speaker has said in the last few minutes new Board—a Board that will get down that you will achieve better accommo- to working with the representatives of dation. There is no one in this Court the Boarding House Association, to who does not wish to raise the level of draw up regulations that will be suitable accommodation. There is no one in this for the Association. Court who will not agree with the chair- man when he mentions a high standard Mr Kerruish: You are assuming the of accommodation in the hotels and Board's defeat? boarding-houses cat&-ing for the visi- Mr Stephen: When the question of tors. I should explain, sir, tliat the the Food and Drugs Acts was under Tourist Board decided on two schemes consideration here the Local Govern- some time ago. One was the compul- ment Board brought over a man from sory scheme which you see to-day, one the Ministry of Food — Mr Morley which was to be compulsory—a simple Roberts—who gave a talk on how those scheme of registration. This is no regulations came into force in Britain. longer simple. The other scheme the He did not say that a person in the Tourist Board have in mind is the Ministry was instructed to draft regula- voluntary scheme, the scheme of tions for that purpose, but the Ministry approved accommodation. (Hear, hear.)

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 297

It has been called by the hon. chairman that these harsh measures are necessary a scheme of grading—it is not exactly we should. be buying space in the • grading to my mind—a scheme whereby national newspapers to advertise the the Tourist Board will say, "These pre- fact You get better value for your mises are approved by us and will money in the Isle of Man than anywhere carry a seal of approval." Now, 1 else." Eighty-three complaints out of Mention these two schemes and the 450.000. That is something to be proud accommodation regulations have been of. I believe that if the Touiist Board brought forward by the Tourist Board are using this as a means of putting' with the intention of dealing with the black sheep out of business they are black sheep in the industry. Every going to find it pretty hard to find black industry has black sheep. sir. but I am sheep. They are going to find it hard to going to suggest that there are not so find people in the tourist industry who many black sheep as we have been led are so bad that they deserve the death to believe. penalty. We have, in these regulations. only one penalty, one instrument, a big. Mr McFee: You can say that about blunt instrument which one hon. mem- burglars. ber has referred to as a sledge-hammer. Mr Irving: Let us consider how the We are trying to apply some form of Tourist Board have used the powers they control, some form of law and the only already have. They have had the instrument they can find is the supreme power to stop people from being in- penalty. How can the laws of the Isle cluded in the guide and accommodation of Man be carried out if persons in the list. To deal with premises they did not Court of Justice had only one weapon-- like they used that power. In 1950.. for the death penalty? 1-low on earth can instance, two premises were kept out of we raise the general standard of accom- the accommodation list. Apparently modation with an instrument such as the Tourist Board could only find two this? It is so severe that we dare not black sheep. In 1957 four people were use it. I said before, when the Bill was kept out of the accommodation list. In before the Keys that the only penalty any case two did not want to be in- would be this. The hon. member for cluded—(laughter)--but, anyway, the Garff, Mr Kerruish, .said. "Let us be total was four. I do not think anyone clear on this—that no Tourist Board was bad enough to be kept out of the would try to put the people on whom we 1958 list but there were certainly no rely out of business. If they did so they more than four. Now I shall deal with would soon be brought to task by the complaints received—and they are Tynwald Court." At the same time the not large files crammed with papers— hon member for Ayre. Mr Radcliffe, the complaints received by the Tourist said, "No one is going to suggest that Board in 1958. I will deal later with this Court has any desire of putting the types of complaint we have received them out of business." I do not believe but I can say at this 'stage that no that the hon. member, Mr Kerruish, or premises had more than two complaints. the hon. member, Mr Radcliffe, or any- There is not one boarding-house or body else, in their desire to approve hotel that received more than two com- standards of accommodation on the Island ever intended to go this far. The plaints from the Tourist Board and chairman and the other two members of believe, sir, that there were twenty com- the Tourist Board who are supporting plaints dealing with small booking these regulations are very sincere. They difficulties. There were, altogether, a are sincere and they mean well. They total of 83 complaints out of a total of believe they are doing something of 450,000 visitors. Instead of bringing up great value to the Isle of Man but I do this sort of thing to this Court and not believe they realised that the course suggesting the accommodation is such of action on which they embarked would

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 298 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959

result in such severe measures. The wald voted on this matter and decided • chairman has said in his remarks, "A that it must be compulsory. The Act suggestion has been made that some certainly did not say that, and members form of financial penalty or fine shall be of the trade, certainly throughout the imposed instead. The Board have earlier negotiations, were under the endeavoured to meet this suggestion but impression that Tynwald had said it have been Legally advised, and have had must be compulsory, and they were to accept: that the Statute does not em- trying to make the best terms. Your 'power them to do so." Now, sir, if the Excellency, the Tourist Board did go to Tourist Board have decided that it Eire to investigate their scheme and I would be fairer to have fines or finan- think there were certain members, cial penalties rather than that, they memliers of this Court, who will agree could have introduced legislation to that when we returned from Eire we achieve that object. There is no reason were sure it was the way in which we why the existing Statute should not be should try to have a voluntary scheme. amended. It has been said that it is We find now that instead of trying a important to deal with some of these -voluntary scheme first, the Tourist few black sheep, but I believe the im- Board are now in a position where they portant thing is not to deal with the tiny are putting forward compulsory regis- minority. The important and worth- tration, hammering the regulations while thing is to raise the general stan- through against the opposition of the dard of accommodation throughout the trade. Then we are going to turn round industry. In these regulations the word to the trade and say "Please join our "minimum" is used and so are the words voluntary scheme." What hope have "below minimum." I am not interested we as a Tourist Board of working with in "below minimum" being brought to the tourist trade unless we reject these "minimum." I am interested in "mini- regulations in no uncertain manner to- mum" being brought to "good." It is' day? We talk about inspection and not enough to state "below minimum" interference by Government officials. I and "minimum." believe, and I think everyone will agree, Mr McFee: What is the alternative? in the case of public health and public safety you can have all the inspection Mr Irving: The hon. member for and interference you wish. I have a Rushen, Mr McFee, asks what is the catering establishment in Douglas and I alternative? I will give my alternative am continuously being visited by in- in a few moments. Supposing there are spectors in connection with public members who believe we are going health and safety and I am glad to see about this thing in the right way, that them. But the day an inspector comes we are going to have the right instru- into my catering business and tells me ment. We must then consider: are we how to run it, how to furnish it and so being fair and just about it. I can on. then I shall be looking around for remember the late Deemster Sir Percy another place to reside where one can Cowley saying he dreaded the compul- carry on one's business without too sory system. I am reminded, too, of much Government interference. I have Deemster Macpherson when making his heard it said that some people do not first speech in this Court, "Tynwald has mind registration. There are some always observed the rules of liberty and people who do not mind and I have justice in making its laws," and I hope heard it said "I have nothing to hide. I the learned Deemster will have the do not mind inspection." And I am opportunity later of observing those quite sure myself that many people principles. The Tourist Board were not have nothing to hide. I have nothing to compelled to introduce a compulsory hide at home but I am hanged if I am scheme. Never at any time has Tyn- going to have Government inspectors

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 299 coming in when they feel like it. (Hear, business. We have heard about Eire— hear.) It is a question of safeguarding it is a voluntary scheme and only 50 the people from the Government. It is per cent. of the establishments are in all very well for Mr X on the Loch the scheme. They can please them- Promenade saying "I do not mind regis- selves if they go in or not. The third tration, I have nothing to hide." We, sir, have a much greater responsibility place in which there is registration is and I believe we are getting to the stage Northern Ireland, where it is compul- of the Government extending its in- sory, plus inspection. But that is all. fluence over people's lives where one of There is no penalty; there is no question our primary duties is to try to preserve of being put out of business. When we the liberty of the subject. It is certain consider the Northern Ireland scheme people in the trade are opposing this we must consider the point that great because they believe it is unjust. I stress is laid on public health and believe I am a Liberal and whether it is public safety. They are doing many of spelt with a small "I" or a capital "L" I the jobs which the Corporation and the do not mind. I am in favour of private Local Government Board do here. I enterprise and letting people run their should hope we have no intention of lives and businesses with the minimum having the Tourist Board inspect sani- of Government interference. I have tary matters and the like. 1 will say made one mistake in my career—when I introduced the Marine Drive Planning when the Northern Ireland authorities Order. I will admit that on looking said when they met the Board that they back on that it really is not the sort of would like to have more power, but this thing in which I believe, I do not think power they want is to deal with public any British Government would agree to health and public safety. I think I this and I am certain that the true ought to say that the British Hotel and Socialist would not. I do not believe Restaurant Association at one time— the true Christian would either. In not so long ago—decided that registra- England the Socialists wish to control tion might be a good thing. But when businesses and they do control them— they found out what was proposed in mines, railways, etc. But unlike certain the Island they dropped the idea. The members of this Court they pay up for Caterers' Association at Blackpool also them. They do not try to nationalise brought it up but that was' to confine them on the cheap—they buy them, I visitors to proper boarding-houses and am sure if the Manx Government wishes hotels—to stop people in small houses to buy the houses they could buy them, such as Corporation houses taking in (There was more applause from people visitors. Supposing we consider we are in the public gallery.) pursuing the right course here; are we going the right way about it? In Jersey, The Governor: I must ask the persons Eire and Northen Ireland it was done by in the public gallery to stop clapping or legislation—in our case Bills go through I will have to ask them to leave. I am the Keys and Legislative Council - in afraid there is nothing in Standing three stages. Thirteen votes are re- Orders which permits anyone to inter- quired in the Keys and Royal Assent is fere with the conduct of the Court. required. They decided all the main principles of registration and grading Mr Irving: Here we are asking the in Jersey by debating it clause by clause industry to pay for the privilege of and word by word. They did not estab- being nationalised. Let us consider lish such important principles as that what happens in Jersey. It is compul- the scheme should be compulsory and sory to register in Jersey, but to my that the penalty would put people out of mind the scheme is not as severe as business by making regulations. They ours because it enables the houses to be did it by Statutes. If we are determined put in a lower grade—not put out of to go ahead with this surely we must

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 300 TYNWALD COURT. JANUARY 20, 1959 reject these regulations and say "We accommodation scheme they do not will do it properly and give everyone know if we will turn round in a year's every possible consideration." Also by time and say, "This is working very these regulations persons affected have well, we will make it compulsory." I no way of having their case dealt with think we have got to drop these regula- by any court of law. Here it should be tions like a hot brick and start again. possible to have a case dealt with by We have got to say. "We want to work court of law and not by the Tourist with you and let us try to get an Board. We should confine ourselves to approved accommodation scheme." You the normal course of justice. I would will get some black sheep who will not consider that a person who could go to take part but they do not matter. If law on this matter should even have an you provide most of the accommodation appeat to the House of Lords but we. by in the Island with the Tourist Board these regulations have denied that. The seal of approval that is all we can really words "compulsory registration" are not expect. I have referred to complaints. very important. It is what goes with Most people will say "How naughty of the registration. The trade could agree me." but there were 83 complaints to to registration. It might be for the the Tourist Board last year. 'Others revenue or for reasons of public health were not recorded because they were and safety—no one would object to that. not of a substantial nature. They must The chairman of the Tourist Board has have been of very small significance said the Board is not going to force indeed when you look at some of those something through which is repugnant which were recorded.. I would say a to the trade. But it is obvious that the quarter of them were booking difficul- Board has now joined battle with the ties; people writing to say, "I sent £2 trade and is determined to go through and then cancelled my booking. but I with this whether it is repugnant to the have not had the £2 back yet." People trade or riot. Surely all this opposition cannot be expected to spend time in the by the trade must mean something to season returning deposits, but over the Court. Eight hundred people do not twenty of the complaints concerned that go to a meeting at Villa Marina and type of thing. There were other com- express disapprbval of a course of plaints too—about food. Sixteen people action like this just for fun. Surely we out of 450.000 said they did not like the are going to take some notice of food. What a wonderful-record! Seven organised resistance to this and thank complained that the premises were not God we have got people with spirit in clean enough. Five claimed they were this Island to organise resistance in overcharged but they granted there was dealing with a question like this. Should some disagreement in the terms of the we not at least try the carrot before the charge. Many of these complaints may stick—or in this case the sledge- be unfounded. They were not all found hammer. We should have come for- to be true. Two out of 450,000 said the ward with an approved conditional service was not satisfactory and two scheme which offered certain incentives complained that the premises closed too —I notice His Honour the Deemster early—they were told they had to be in frowning—but it is incentives which we by 12 o'clock. One complained that he must offer. Some members of the had to share on arrival and one that industry have stated they are not in- she had to pay on arrival and was left terested in a voluntary system because. without any money to spend on the rest they do not know the terms of it and of the holiday. Two others complained because they do not trust the Tourist for reasons not stated. Two out of this Board. They do not trust us, the whole total of 83 complaints were from of Tynwald, because if they get together boarding-house keepers that they could and agree to a voluntary approved not collect their money, so they should

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20. 1959 301 not be included. So we have 81 com- Mr McFee: I would like to say. Your plaints and I am proud of those figures. Excellency-- We have the personal assurance of the Members; Adjourn. hon. member who iS chairman of the The Governor: We will have one more Tourist Board. I honestly believe every speech and then adjourn. word he says, but I do not think it is right for regulations as serious as this to Mr McFee: Your Excellency, I am go through on personal assurances from getting rather tired of pious platitudes. anyone. We are told the Tourist Board I hear, from time to time, "I am in do not want to put anyone out of favour of the principle." It's a nice thing business. If they don't want to put to say, "I am in favour of the principle." anyone out of business, why ask for the And here, in a memorandum from the power. I believe this is the most dan- trade itself, the Association accepts the gerous, certainly the most important principle, and we have heard from the principle ever put before Tynwald. I Labour Parl y, my own colleagues, that believe, in spite of everything I have we are in favour of the principle. But said about the Legislative Council that now I feel the test is being applied to this is a matter which must be con- those who are in favour of the principle sidered very, very seriously by hon. of controlled industry. I am a member members of the Council- of the Labour Party, and the Labour Party, I claim, throughout my lifetime, Deemster Kneale: Are you suggest- has been a party of ideals and vision. ing that members of the Council don't And the Party has always advocated consider matters seriously. that industry, basic industry of any nation, large or small, should be con- Mr Irving: Oh, no. Nothing of the trolled and regulated in the interests of sort. all who participate and work in the Deemster Kneale: Do you— industry, and for the common good of the whole community. Mr Irving: Are you making your A Member: What al:abut the coal speech? mines? Deemster Kneale: I am objecting to Mr McFee: And there are so many to- that innuendo. day who say, "Well, we are in favour of the principle"—if it is applied to Mr Irving: There was no innuendo someone else's industry, like the Steam whatever. In all our debates on con- Packet or the Railway Company. But stitutional reform, I have stressed that not to our industry. And they one of the greatest duties of the Legis- now oppose these regulations. We lative Council is to protect minorities, must control them because we, as an and there is a minority here awaiting Island, depend upon good catering and your protection. I know people will say good standards of housing and accom- "This man is connected with the trade." modation. We must control them to He is connected with the trade and he is maintain a successful visiting industry. thinking about his business, and so on. The Labour Party has said that in view Well, sir, if that was so, all I need to do of the severe threat facing the Island is to vote against it. There would have from other resorts, that active steps been no need for me to speak on it. You should be taken for everybody to co- can talk about resignation. I feel now operate in this important industry of that if this sort of thing is accepted by tourism. Tynwald,. God knows what Tynwald will . A Member: You haven't got it here. do next. And if this is accepted by Tynwald—and I say it in no form of a Mr McFee: That steps should be taken threat—as far as I am concerned, I will by the Tourist Board to have its powers not remain a member of Tynwald. extended. Here is an opportunity for

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. 302 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 extending the powers of the Board to Common Purse; my purse, or the achieve this extension and prosperity labourer's in the street, or from the for the industry. This is a severe chal- revenue of this Island—ad lib—without lenge. It is-very evident that something some assurance it is spent to achieve its should be done. I was looking at figures purpose, namely—betterment of stan- issued by the British Travel Association. dards. Are you going to say to these It is surprising to find that only 14 per people in the industry, "Here you are. cent. of British holidaymakers went to Do what you like with the money. Buy foreign resorts. Sixty-four per cent. your motor-cars and go to the Continent went to English resorts. Ten per cent. for holidays." There has been a lot of went to Scottish resorts; 10 per cent. to discussion. Your Excellency, and a lot Wales—incidentally,. a big increase. of hot air. And only 2 per cent came to the Isle of A Member: We are listening to it now, Man. Three per cent. went to the Mac. Channel Islands, and two per cent. to the Irish Republic. It seems we are Mr McFee: If the hot air had been getting a vey small share of the poten- used properly in Douglas during the tial holidaymakers of the British Isles. recent snowy period, then the streets And it also suggests this. That if we would have been cleared much quicker. can only increase our visitors by one- As I was saying, with regard to basic half per cent. we would be bringing industry, the only other basic industry reasonable prosperity to the Island. The in the Island is that of the agricultural Visiting Industry Commission, I should industry. Reference has been made that remind you at this point, said that the the farmer would not stand for it. He British resorts provided generally, a had to stand for it. Twenty or 30 years higher standard of accommodation than ago there was a decline in agriculture. the Manx caterers do. And this House said, "What we have to do is to introduce some planning. Some A Member: Too cheap. regulations. We have to improve the general standard of agriculture. If we '.Mr McFee: Perhaps it can be said that do that, you are going to have more 64 per cent. of the holidaymakers go to prosperity, and there will be more pros- British resorts because they are assured perity for the Island." Who opposed it? of a higher standard. So it is essential The farmers. They said, "You are not that some very active steps should be going to come into my farm. You are taken to increase and improve, and raise not going to tell me what to do. We are the standard of accommodation in the not going to have any of your Dairy and Island. I earnestly believe that while it Milk Acts and marketing Acts." Yet is necessary for the Isle of Man to raise these were all enforced upon the farmer its standards and improve conditions, to ensure that the Manx public would the margin of profit to-day in the indus- get the cleanest and best agricultural try is nowhere comparable to what it produce possible. They, too, were told was. say, 20 years ago. What we have that they would have to improve their to do is to make the industry pros- industry. I believe that when the perous. We have got to make it pos- Government pours money out of the sible, and make conditions possible, to public purse the Government must have increase the margin of profit to what power. There is also one other thing, can be called a reasonable profit. I be- briefly. That is, I deplore the refer- lieve the Board should come forward ences made—that the Tourist Board with a strong recommendation for a members and those who will apply these 'higher margin of profit after providing regulations are rascals. higher standards. And, if necessary, Government money must be infused into A Member: No one suggested that. the industry to achieve this. But are Mr McFee: It has been publicly said. you going to take money out of the I have heard it said. And it is in print.

Tourist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 20, 1959 303 that they may have spite. And when try. We should have a system of liaison we take spite, we use our official posi- and of tying-up. There is no provision tions to attain some mean purpose to made in the regulations for this. put them out of business, and it has A Member: Where? been suggested on a public platform which 1 attended, that this is the type Mr McFee: The Tourist -Board of person we have got on the Tourist can meet the members of the tourist Board. industry business with regard to their difficulties but as far as the Statute goes Mr Callister: You don't swallow the boarding-house industry does not everything you hear, do you? exist. If there is some tie-up between • Mr McFee: No, but the tendency is them on a statutory basis a lot of prob- that this is used to sway the mass of lems could be solved. You would get people who don't think for themselves. the parties together under statute and To suggest that this type of man is in there would be a proper body to work the Tourist Board is absolutely wrong in an advisory capacity with the Gov- and it should be contradicted, There is a ernment. lot of force in the psychology of fear The Governor: Do I understand that and the Tourist Board have been proved you are moving an amendment? good and courageous in their act even against it and popular opinion. Mr McFee: Yes, Your Excellency. Popular opinion is not always right. The Governor: Read it out again. In the past lasting improvements have come from minority groups Mr McFee: Your Excellency, I propose and what the minority think to- as an amendment:— day the majority applaud to-morrow. If That the Tourist Board Regulations be these regulations are turned down to- approved subject to them being referred to a committee of Tynwald for consideration day, if the minority who are in favour and clarification and a recommendation for of them lose the vote I say that in ten amendment, and that this committee confer years time there will be unanimous with the Tourist Board and other interested bodies representing the industry all over the support for regulations of this kind. Island before the regulations are applied; Your Excellency, I have one or two sug- (h) that this committee are to consider an gestions to make. The first is—I seem additional regulation giving statutory re- cognition to a negotiating and advisory body. to have lost my notes—that the Tourist representative of the tourist industry to be Board regulations be approved subject consulted on all matters relative to the ad- ministration of the Tourist (Isle of Man) to them being referred to a committee Act. of Tynwald for consideration and clari- fication and a recommendation for Mr Crellin: Your Excellency, that amendment, and that this committee amendment should be thought over and confer with the Tourist Board and other redrafted before it is put. bodies representing the hotels and The Governor: The Court will now boarding-houses all over the Isle of adjourn and meet again at 10-30 a.m. Man before the regulations are applied. to-morrow. I think that if we apply the proper pro- cedure it will secure the best harmony The Court adjourned until 10-30 a.m. between the Government and the indus- on Wednesday, January 21st, 1959.

ToUrist Accommodation Regulations Referred to Committee of Three of Tynwald.