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1 UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2 ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 PUBLIC COMMENT ON CERTIFICATIION OF WASTE ISOLATION 13 PILOT PROJECT 14 15 SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO THURSDAY JANUARY 8, 1998 16 EVENING SESSION 7:00 P.M. TO 10:45 P.M. 17 18 19 EPA PANEL: RICHARD WILSON LARRY WEINSTOCK 20 FRANK MACINOWSKI MARY KRUGER 21 KEITH MATTHEWS 22 23 24 25 DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 1 I N D E X 2 TESTIMONY PAGE 3 DEIRDE BOAK 3 4 JEREMY BOAK 6 5 AUDREY CURRY 12 6 MICHAEL COLLINS 16 7 TIM CURRY 22 8 JOHN McCALL 29 9 POLLY RODDICK 33 10 WENDELL WEARTH 35 11 PRISCILLA LOGAN 39 12 JOHN DENDAHL 41 13 STANLEY TENORIO 44 14 DOLORES BACA 46 15 AMY MANNING 49 16 MIKE DEPMSEY 52 17 SASHA PYLE 56 18 LES SHEPHARD 67 19 GREG MELLO 71 20 ALFRED FULLER 78 21 HARPER F. BREWER 79 22 JOSE VILLEGAS 83 23 AMY SOLLMAN 88 24 ELIZABETH WEST 93 25 STANLEY LOGAN 97 DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 3 1 PARRISH STAPLES 100 2 JEAN NICHOLS 102 3 JAY SHELTON 108 4 TRACY HUGHES 115 5 JAI LAKSHMAN 117 6 JEAN WHEELER 128 7 KEITH MACKINTOSH 130 8 DON SMITH 132 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 1 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO, THURSDAY, JANUARY 8, 1998 3 EVENING SESSION 4 MR. WILSON: Good evening, and welcome to the 5 U. S. Environmental Protection Agency's continuation 6 of our hearing to receive comments on our proposed 7 decision to certify that the Department of Energy Waste 8 Isolation Pilot Plant, known as WIPP, is in compliance 9 with EPA Radioactive Waste Disposal Standards. 10 My name is Richard Wilson. I'm the Acting 11 Assistant Administrator for the radiation program at 12 the Environmental Protection Agency in Washington D.C. 13 I guess first I'll introduce the rest of the 14 panel. All of us are from the Environmental Protection 15 Agency in Washington D.C. 16 Larry Weinstock, Frank Marcinowski, and Mary 17 Kruger, all in the radiation division, working on this 18 project and other issues, and Keith Matthews from our 19 General Counsel's office. 20 I won't go through all the background that I 21 did when we started this afternoon, but just for those 22 of you who weren't here, I'll mention how the hearing 23 works. It's an informal hearing, so we don't swear 24 people or have cross-examination. We just are here to 25 get your comments on our proposal. DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 2 1 We have had to limit the time each person has 2 in order to make sure each person had an opportunity to 3 speak, so individuals have been given five minutes. If 4 you are representing a group, you have ten minutes. We 5 have a little timer to help you get a sense of where 6 you are in terms of the schedule. It will turn green 7 when you start your testimony, it turns yellow at about 8 two or three minutes, and then turns red when your time 9 is up. It's okay if you are over a little or under a 10 little, but please try to stay roughly on time. We're 11 going to stay here tonight as late as we need to so 12 that everyone has a chance to testify who is here who 13 wants to testify, but if you take longer than your 14 time, you are really eating into somebody else's time, 15 so that I encourage you to try to stick to our 16 schedule. If you have a longer statement than that, we 17 would be happy to take it and enter it in full in our 18 record. 19 For those of you who are interested in 20 submitting comments later, our public comment period is 21 open until February 27. There's information in the 22 back about where to send the comments to. If you would 23 like to send comments in writing, in addition to any 24 testimony or instead of testimony, or in response to 25 somebody else's testimony, I'd encourage you to do DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 3 1 that. We will read every bit of testimony that we get 2 and we will review all the testimony we get here, and 3 all the written comments we get before we make a final 4 decision on this matter. 5 So your comments tonight and your comments in 6 writing that you get us by the end of February are 7 important, and I would encourage you to do that. 8 We thank all of you for coming. As you know, 9 we started the hearing process Monday in Carlsbad, and 10 then were in Albuquerque, and came here this afternoon. 11 We'll be here tonight and most of tomorrow. So we 12 really appreciate the number of people who have come 13 out and the comments they have made, and we look 14 forward to the comments tonight. 15 We had one person, I think, from this 16 afternoon who wasn't here. 17 Richard Polasi, I think is -- Is he here? 18 (Note: No response.) 19 Okay. We will try again in a minute. 20 Deirdre Boak. 21 MS. BOAK: Are we supposed to use this 22 microphone? 23 MR. WILSON: Yes. I'm sorry. 24 MS. BOAK: My name is Deirdre Boak, and I'm a 25 resident of Santa Fe County. I'd like to comment on DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 4 1 the WIPP certification process. 2 First of all, in a book entitled Uncertainty, 3 Morgan and Henrion quote Cicero as saying: 4 Probability directs the conduct of the wise man. 5 This is very relevant for WIPP certification, 6 because we will never know with perfect certainty about 7 the performance of this system over the next 10,000 8 years. In fact, I think that Morgan and Henrion, who 9 are recognized experts in scientific uncertainty and 10 policy issues, would argue that perfect certainty, 11 i.e., the elimination of all uncertainty, is neither 12 attainable nor desirable. The EPA must make the 13 certification decision on the basis of the reasonable 14 likelihood or probability that TRU waste can be safely 15 isolated for the performance period. 16 As a taxpayer, and with respect to WIPP, I do 17 not want to pay for the collection of information that 18 is not of direct relevance to ensuring either safe, 19 long-term repository performance or operational safety, 20 so knowing the exact contents of waste containers, for 21 instance, may not be necessary. In fact, we ought to 22 be working to remove the conservative assumptions made 23 in the areas of waste characterization and 24 transportation, because unnecessary conservatism both 25 costs taxpayers money and adds nothing to their safety. DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 5 1 Conservative assumptions could also seriously constrain 2 an ability to ship waste to WIPP inappropriately 3 constraining DOE's ability to solve a system-wide 4 environmental problem. 5 Another area of concern for many people has 6 to do with petroleum issues, and I would like to 7 comment on this. As a former reservoir engineer, it 8 appears to me the petroleum potential of the WIPP area 9 has been very significantly overestimated, as has the 10 potential for human intrusion. The use of fluid 11 injection has been also overestimated. If the site is 12 rejected on the basis of the petroleum issues, I think 13 we will have rejected a sound site for reasons that are 14 fundamentally unsupportable. 15 Finally, I'm concerned about the ability of 16 fringe groups to influence the certification process 17 politically. I recently got a notice from a local 18 group stating, quote, "EPA has caved in to DOE pressure 19 and announced its preliminary decision to approve the 20 DOE's WIPP Certification Application." 21 This notice goes on to say that the 22 particular organization has been invited by the 23 Attorneys General of Texas and New Mexico to 24 participate in several lawsuits seeking to stop the 25 opening of WIPP because of safety problems. DAY 4 - JANUARY 6, 1998 - EVENING SESSION SANTA FE DEPOSITION SERVICE (505) 983-4643 6 1 I do not believe the EPA has caved in to 2 anyone. There is a process defined by the regulations 3 that will get us to the right answer on WIPP safety. 4 So I ask you not to be swayed by people or arguments 5 indulging in political power plays. I ask you not to 6 take costly conservative positions without careful 7 thought. Please make the certification decision on the 8 technical issues and the regulatory guidelines. 9 MR. WILSON: Okay. Thank you very much for 10 your testimony. 11 Next is Jeremy Boak.