Gypsy and Traveller Sites
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House of Commons ODPM: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee Gypsy and Traveller Sites Thirteenth Report of Session 2003–04 Volume III Oral and supplementary written evidence Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 26 October 2004 HC 633-III Published on 8 November 2004 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £14.50 The ODPM: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee The ODPM: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and its associated bodies. Current membership Andrew Bennett MP (Labour, Denton and Reddish) (Chairman) Sir Paul Beresford MP (Conservative, Mole Valley) Mr Clive Betts MP (Labour, Sheffield Attercliffe) Mr Graham Brady MP (Conservative, Altrincham & Sale West) Mr David Clelland MP (Labour, Tyne Bridge) Mr John Cummings MP (Labour, Easington) Mrs Eleanor Laing MP (Conservative, Epping Forest) Chris Mole MP (Labour, Ipswich) Mr Bill O’ Brien MP (Labour, Normanton) Christine Russell MP (Labour, City of Chester) Mr Adrian Sanders (Liberal Democrat, Torbay) Powers The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publications The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/odpm.cfm. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Kate Emms (Clerk), Libby Preston (Second Clerk), Ben Kochan (Committee Specialist), Haidee Brockway (Committee Specialist), Ian Hook (Committee Assistant), Ian Blair (Chief Office Clerk) and Emma Carey (Secretary). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the ODPM: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 1353; the Committee’s email address is [email protected] Gypsy and Traveller Sites 1 Witnesses Tuesday 22 June 2004 Page Dr Donald Kenrick Ev 1 Dr Rob Home Ev 1 Ms Siobhan Spencer, Coordinator, Derbyshire Gypsy Traveller Liaison Group Ev 5 Ms Catherine Beard, Chair, National Association of Gypsy Women Ev 5 Mr Tom Sweeney, Co-chair, Irish Traveller Movement Britain Ev 5 Mr Cliff Codona, Chair, National Travellers’ Action Group Ev 5 Mr Charles Smith, Chair, Gypsy Council Ev 5 Mr Hughie Smith, President, and Mr Tom Lingard, Assistant Secretary, the Ev 12 Gypsy Council (Romani Kris) Tuesday 29 June 2004 Ms Sarah Spencer, Deputy Chair, and Ms Sasha Barton, Senior Policy Ev 18 Officer, Gypsies and Travellers, Commission for Racial Equality Ms Pat Niner, Researcher into the Bi-Annual Gypsy and Traveller Counts Ev 21 Mr Rick Bristow, Chairman, Cottenham Residents’ Association Ev 24 Dr Angus Murdoch, Travellers’ Advisor, Travellers’ Advice Team, Community Ev 26 Law Partnership Mr George Summers, Gypsy Liaison Officer, Hampshire County Council, Mr Terry Holland, Gypsy Liaison Officer, Buckinghamshire County Council, Mr Ian Cairns, Gypsy Liaison Officer, Somerset County Council, and Ms Pat Ev 29 Weale, Gypsy Liaison Officer, Worcestershire County Council, National Association of Gypsy and Traveller Liaison Officers Tuesday 13 July 2004 Chief Constable Alastair McWhirter QPM MA, Association of Chief Police Ev 37 Officers Councillor Susie Kemp, Chairman of LGA Planning Executive, Councillor Chloe Lambert, Deputy Chairman of LGA Planning Executive, and Mr Lee Ev 42 Searles, Programme Manager for Planning and Transport, Local Government Association 2 Gypsy and Traveller Sites Mr Michael Green, Policy and Parliamentary Affairs Manager, and Mr John Treble CBE, Vice Chair, Somerset Association of Local Councils, National Ev 42 Association of Local Councils Rt Hon Keith Hill, a Member of the House, Minister of State for Housing Ev 46 and Planning, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister Ms Dawn Eastmead, Head of Housing Management Division, and Mr John Stambollouian, Head of Planning Directorate Division, Office of the Deputy Ev 46 Prime Minister Visit to Appleby Horse Fair, 7 June 2004 Interview with Mr Paul Winter Ev 54 Interview with Mr Jimmy Coltman Ev 56 Interview with Mr Billy Brough Ev 57 Interview with Mr Gordon Boswell Ev 61 Gypsy and Traveller Sites 3 List of supplementary written evidence Memoranda GTS 01 to GTS 39 published as HC 633-II on 17th June 2004 Supplementary Memorandum by the Gypsy Council (Romani Kris) (GTS 04(c)) Ev 67 Supplementary Memorandum by the Gypsy Council (Romani Kris) (GTS 04(d)) Ev 75 Supplementary Memorandum by the Traveller Law Reform Coalition (TLRC) (GTS 12(d)) Ev 76 Supplementary Memorandum by the Travellers’ Advice Team, Community Law Partnership (GTS 14(b)) Ev 77 National Association of Gypsy and Traveller Liaison Officers (GTS 40) Ev 78 Supplementary Memorandum by the National Association of Gypsy and Traveller Liaison Officers (GTS 40(a)) Ev 81 Supplementary Memorandum by the National Association of Gypsy and Traveller Liaison Officers (GTS 40(b)) Ev 83 Phillip John Plato (GTS 41) Ev 84 Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) (GTS 42) Ev 88 Supplementary Memorandum by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) (GTS 42(a)) Ev 89 Gypsy Council (GTS 43) Ev 90 National Association of Teachers of Travellers (NATT) (GTS 44) Ev 93 Derbyshire Gypsy Liaison Group (GTS 45) Ev 95 Greater London Authority (GLA), Mayor’s Office (GTS 46) Ev 97 Wychavon District Council (GTS 47) Ev 98 Environment Agency (GTS 48) Ev 99 Supplementary Memorandum by the Environment Agency (GTS 48(a)) Ev 99 Lord Avebury (GTS 49) Ev 100 Ann S Dean (GTS 50) Ev 105 Department for Work and Pensions (GTS 51) Ev 107 Department for Trade and Industry (DTI) (GTS 52) Ev 108 Supplementary Memorandum by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (GTS 01(a)) Ev 109 Supplementary Memorandum by the Gypsy Council (Romani Kris) (GTS 04(f)) Ev 110 Supplementary Memorandum by the Local Government Association (LGA) (GTS 38(a)) Ev 115 Supplementary Memorandum by the Traveller Law Reform Coalition (TLRC) (GTS 12(e)) Ev 116 Home Office (GTS 53) Ev 117 4 Gypsy and Traveller Sites List of unprinted written evidence Additional papers have been received from the following and have not been reported to the House but to save printing costs they have not been printed and copies have been placed in the House of Commons library where they may be inspected by Members. Other copies are in the Record Office, House of Lords and are available to the public for inspection. Requests for inspection should be addressed to the Record Office, House of Lords, London SW1. (Tel. 020 7219 3074) hours of inspection are from 9:30am to 5:00pm on Mondays to Fridays. Memorandum by Joanna Clark Memorandum by Janet Grimwood Memorandum by M. Donachy Memorandum by Mr Graham Borgonon Memorandum by Anna Mari Fox Memorandum by Mr Ross Hetherington Memorandum by Mr Alan J Buck Office of the Deputy Prime Minister: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee on Tuesday 22 June 2004 Members present: Andrew Bennett, in the Chair Sir Paul Beresford Chris Mole Mr Clive Betts Mr Bill O’Brien Mr David Clelland Mr Adrian Sanders Mr John Cummings Witnesses: Dr Donald Kenrick, and Dr Rob Home, examined. Q1 Chairman: Could I welcome you to the first Dr Home: My view would be slightly diVerent. You session of the Select Committee’s inquiry into gypsy have the count with 13,000 caravans on all kinds of and traveller sites. Could I point out for anyone who sites, and they attempted to calculate occupancy is interested that the evidence we received by the rates—how many that would be per caravan. You closing date has now been printed in this volume, have a large number of authorised sites, where which you can get if you want to spend £14 or you people would be far more resident than not, but they can get it on the Select Committee’s website. Could still travel away at certain periods, particularly I welcome the two of you to our first session and ask between April and October. There is the additional you to identify yourselves for the record. test imposed in the courts that they are travelling for Dr Kenrick: I am Dr Donald Kenrick. an economic purpose, and there is a variety of Dr Home: Dr Robert Home. activities that might go on—dealing and so on. How far you would count horse trading at gypsy fairs as being suYcient economic activity, would depend on Q2 Chairman: Do either of you want to say anything the facts of the case. There is a large number of by way of introduction or are you happy for us to go gypsies who are either in a transitional phase straight to questions. towards being settled or who are combining aspects Dr Kenrick: I would like to say two things. First of of both ways of life. The figure of 700 that Dr all, I am doing a lot of private planning, which I did Kenrick has come up with is a new one to me. not mention in my submission—which is probably why I am here anyway. Also, in the figure of 2,700 Q6 Mr Cummings: How would you define gypsies? which I give, I made an allowance for tolerated sites. Dr Home: There is a statutory definition and there That is why my figure of 2,700 may not look the has been a great deal of case law.