CSPAN/FIRST LADIES FLORENCE HARDING JUNE 16, 2014 10:00 A.M
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CSPAN/FIRST LADIES FLORENCE HARDING JUNE 16, 2014 10:00 a.m. ET SUSAN SWAIN, HOST: Florence Kling Harding once said she had only one real hobby and that was Warren Harding. She was a significant force in her husband's presidency and adept at handling the media. Despite hardships, scandals, her husband's infidelities and his death in office as well as her own poor health, Florence Harding set many precedents that would help define the role of the modern first lady. Good evening. And welcome to C-SPAN's Series First Ladies: Influence & Image. Tonight, we're going to be telling you the story of Florence Harding, the first lady that one of our guests said has been neglected and derided by -- throughout history. But in her time, the Hardings came in as very popular people. We're going to learn more about the trajectory of her time and her husband's time in office and her interesting story that not many people know today. Let me introduce you to our two guests. Katherine Sibley is a history professor at St. Joseph's College in Philadelphia. She's a biographer of the first lady. Her book is called First Lady Florence Harding: Behind the Tragedy and the Controversy. Thank you for being here. David Pietrusza is a guest as well tonight. Presidential Historian and the author of many books including 1920: The Year of the Six Presidents. And that's really where I want to start tonight because we think of Warren Harding and we think of Teapot Dome and the other scandals of his presidency. But in 1920, when he came into office. It was in a landslide. Sixty percent of the popular vote, 404 electoral college votes. So, set the stage for what brought these people into office and what the mood of the country was. DAVID PIETRUSZA, AUTHOR & HISTORIAN: The mood of the country is really bad. And it's a year when just about any Republican can win. And the trick is to get to the nomination. TR was supposed to be the nominee. They had the big split in 1912, the Progressives are still in tatters. That's patched up. Unfortunately, TR died in his sleep in January 1919. There are some people who want to fill the bill, Leonard Wood, who remembers him? Frank Louden, the Governor of Illinois. I can't even remember how to pronounce his name correctly. I'm always being corrected on it. Hiram Johnson, who's just too irascible to reach out forward, which leads you to actually naturally the fourth man, the available man is Andrew Sinclair, one of his biographer said. Warren Gamaliel Harding because he's not too hot, hot too cold, not too interventionist, not too much of anything except he’s really handsome. He's a fairly good speaker. He's been in the national stage at the 1916 Republican convention. He nominated Taft in 1912. So, he is the alternative and in that year, the alternative to Wilsonism wins. SWAIN: Well, the Hardings’ trajectory -- personal trajectory came from small town, Marion, Ohio, where there were the publishers in newspaper. Give us their short history of publishing a newspaper to national politics. KATHERINE SIBLEY, PROFESSOR – HISTORY DEPARTMENT, ST. JOSEPH’S UNIVERSITY: Yes, thank you so much. So, the Marion Star was a very small paper when Harding acquired it and he made it into a much more successful paper over time. Thanks to the efforts of wife, Florence. Now, Florence Harding and he will talk later about how they met. But for the point of getting to the discussion of how they got to 1920, she was a key element here. So, what happens is they are working in the newspaper and it's going very well, but it's a little dull for her and she'd like to see him get involved in some other things. So he does go on the Chautauqua circuit and as you've said, he was a very good speaker. He did an Alexander Hamilton oration. He was quite successful. And she thought, you know, he could go for bigger things, so he did. He ran for State Senate. He was elected two times in Ohio, tried to go further than that with lieutenant governor. Later ran for governor, it was not successful, but just as you've said he was positioned, he was visible in Ohio and by the time of 19 -- by the time of 1913 when there's a new law in this country which allows senators for the first time to be elected popularly, he's positioned to run. And in 1914, he's elected to the Senate in Ohio -- for Ohio, I should say. And he thus becomes the first popular elected senator from that state and the first senator actually to become president as a sitting senator and, of course, Florence, his wife is right there alongside him. And her role is quite significant in developing this trajectory. We could talk more about that. SWAIN: Well, you write in your book on 1920 that he was -- himself unconvinced about his viability as a candidate. Even among his fellow Congressional Republicans his support was negligible at the outset. There was a matter of his health and ultimately, he did die early. And then there was Carrie, Carrie Philips and we'll learn more about her. Then there was Nan and Nan's baby and there were other women as well, you write Warren Harding's personal life was quite a mess. So, do people look the other way in these days for candidates? PIETRUSZA: In those days? SWAIN: Yes. PIETRUSZA: I think there are a lot of things which were not talked about. Scandal of public figures was not written about. It -- unless there was a divorce case, unless something went into the courts. The papers would not touch it and something that's never occurred to me until now. He's a newspaper man. Maybe he’s part of that club and they're not going to write about it. That may work very much in his favor. But you also see in that era that there are other infidelities going on. There is Mr. Weeks, who he appoints the cabinet. He has a mistress. There is certainly some issues about Woodrow Wilson, maybe in the Bahamas or Bermuda rather before he is president. There is the famous incident of Alice Roosevelt Longworth and her child, Deborah or Deborah which is named actually -- or she wanted to name it Deborah. It becomes Pauline, but that is the illegitimate daughter of Senator William E. Borah, a very famous guy at that time. And then Franklin Roosevelt cheating on Eleanor Roosevelt in 1917. So, the rich have their prerogatives and they take them. SWAIN: One of our viewers on Facebook asks, "How did Mrs. Harding respond to the rumors of Harding's Wandering Eyes?" SIBLEY: Yes, it's a great question. And I didn't -- I think it's kind of fun -- I think we're going to have a little bit of a debate about some of these relationships, this extramarital relationships that Warren G. Harding had. He did have this affair with Carrie Phillips, who was woman, they met early on old friends, they were both a couple – Phillipses and the Hardings who all were related as a -- in a connected way in Ohio. And what happens over time is that Warren falls in love with -- with Carrie. And Florence eventually finds out about this. So, sometime between 1905 when Florence gets sick for the first time in 1911, she discovers this affair. And they were still friends and they were still vacationing together and the -- the caller asks how was this happening and how did Florence react to this. Well, not very happily. And in fact, she asks him to consider a divorce, but Warren refused. He knew very much that he needed her partly for the reasons that I alluded to before for his career and in other ways. So he agreed to kind of downplay this affair and in fact, I think, I believe he committed to sort of ending it but, in fact, he did not as it turns out. And so, such as by 1920 as he is running for president, it is a bit of an embarrassment. It's been on and off. It hasn't been a very active affair for some years at that point but there are flaring moments of it that came up and down. And because of that, in the end, she is -- she is essentially bought off by members of the Republican Party and others who come up with funds to kind of get her out of the way, and no, Florence was not happy about this at all. And I think there are some wonderful quotes we've read in her diary to get back to this wonderful question where she expresses how the difficulty of dealing with an unfaithful husband like hers was. SWAIN: We have one of her diary quotes, but how much of a diarist was she? How much is preserved? SIBLEY: You know, it's a very interesting question. Her diary is not very reliable as far as the dates, but I believe it is an authentic version of her thoughts. It was a small book that was discovered about, gosh, 15 years ago in a barn in Ohio and it's a list of nostrums, recipes, remembrances by her and these statements that you're going to share with our audience.