July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5049 As additional conferees from the recorded vote on any amendment; and (2) re- The Committee on Rules understands Committee on Transportation and In- duce to five minutes the minimum time for this waiver to be technical in nature frastructure, for consideration of sec- electronic voting on any postponed question and that it does not constitute a sub- that follows another electronic vote without stantive violation of the Budget Act. tions 702 and 704 of the Senate amend- intervening business, provided that the mini- ment, and modifications committed to mum time for electronic voting on the first Otherwise we would not be giving the conference: Mr. SHUSTER, Ms. MOL- in any series of questions shall be fifteen waiver here today. INARI, and Mr. OBERSTAR. minutes. During consideration of the bill, The rule also provides certain waiv- As additional conferees from the points of order against amendments for fail- ers of points of order against the bill Committee on Education and the ure to comply with clause 2(e) of rule XXI itself with certain exceptions as speci- Workforce, for consideration of sec- are waived. At the conclusion of consider- fied in the text of the rule. Members tions 713–14, 717, 879, 1302, 1304–5, and ation of the bill for amendment the Commit- have copies on the desks in front of 1311 of the Senate amendment, and tee shall rise and report the bill to the House them. with such amendments as may have been modifications committed to con- Specifically, the rule waives clause 2, adopted. The previous question shall be con- prohibiting unauthorized and legisla- ference: Messrs: GOODLING, FAWELL, sidered as ordered on the bill and amend- and PAYNE. ments thereto to final passage without inter- tive provisions in an appropriations There was no objection. vening motion except one motion to recom- bill, and also clause 6, prohibiting reap- f mit with or without instructions. propriations, of House rule XXI against The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. the bill, except as noted in this rule. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR The first items in the bill left ex- CAMP). The gentleman from New York AND RELATED AGENCIES APPRO- posed to points of order for lack of au- [Mr. SOLOMON] is recognized for 1 hour. PRIATIONS ACT, 1998 thorization or legislating on an appro- REQUEST TO AMEND HOUSE RESOLUTION 181 priations bill are two provisions relat- Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, by di- Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I would ing to Forest Service credit issued for rection of the Committee on Rules, I respectfully ask unanimous consent purchasers of timber for the construc- call up House Resolution 181 and ask that the amendment to House Resolu- tion of roads, and a limitation on the for its immediate consideration. tion 181 that I have placed at the desk availability of timber purchaser road The Clerk read the resolution, as fol- be considered as adopted. lows: The SPEAKER pro tempore. The construction credits to small busi- H. RES. 181 Clerk will report the amendment. nesses. These provisions were objected Resolved, That at any time after the adop- The Clerk read as follows: to by the chairmen of the authorizing committees, the Committee on Agri- tion of this resolution the Speaker may, pur- Amendment offered by Mr. SOLOMON: suant to clause 1(b) of rule XXIII, declare the Page 2, line 14, after ‘‘line 6;’’ insert ‘‘be- culture and the Committee on Re- House resolved into the Committee of the ginning with ‘: Provided’ on page 61, line 22 sources. Whole House on the state of the Union for through ‘Reserve’ on page 62, line 4;’’. The second item in the bill left ex- consideration of the bill (H.R. 2107) making posed to a point of order for lack of au- b 1430 appropriations for the Department of the In- thorization is a $10 million appropria- terior and related agencies for the fiscal year The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. tion for necessary expenses of the Na- ending September 30, 1998, and for other pur- CAMP). Is there objection to the request tional Endowment for the Arts. poses. The first reading of the bill shall be of the gentleman from New York? dispensed with. Points of order against con- Mr. Speaker, the exposure of this Mr. YATES. Mr. Speaker, I object. agency to a point of order in this rule sideration of the bill for failure to comply The SPEAKER pro tempore. Objec- with section 306 of the Congressional Budget bears further explanation. As I men- Act of 1974 are waived. General debate shall tion is heard. tioned earlier, clause 2 of House rule be confined to the bill and shall not exceed Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, for the XXI prohibits unauthorized appropria- one hour equally divided and controlled by purpose of debate only, I yield the cus- tions and legislation on an appropria- the chairman and ranking minority member tomary 30 minutes to the gentleman tions bill. Those are the rules of the of the Committee on Appropriations. After from Massachusetts [Mr. MOAKLEY], House. general debate the bill shall be considered pending which I yield myself such time General appropriations bills are priv- for amendment under the five-minute rule. as I may consume. During consider- ileged on this House floor. However, Points of order against provisions in the bill ation of this resolution, all time yield- for failure to comply with clause 2 or 6 of the Committee on Appropriations in ed is for the purpose of debate only. modern practice has sought special rule XXI are waived except as follows: begin- Mr. Speaker, House Resolution 181 is ning with ‘‘: Provided’’ on page 46, line 25, rules from the Committee on Rules through ‘‘part 121’’ on page 47, line 6; and an open rule. It provides for consider- which provide for consideration of bills page 76, line 10, through line 13. Where points ation of H.R. 2107, the Department of and waive appropriate points of order. of order are waived against part of a para- Interior and related agencies appro- Mr. Speaker, in the 104th Congress the graph, points of order against a provision in priations bill for fiscal year 1998. The Republican leadership established a another part of such paragraph may be made rule provides an open amending proc- protocol relating to waivers of only against such provision and not against ess, allowing any Member of this House unauthored programs or legislative the entire paragraph. The amendments to offer cutting amendments or offset- language in general appropriations printed in the report of the Committee on ting amendments, including limitation Rules accompanying this resolution may be bills. Under this protocol, the Commit- offered only by a Member designated in the amendments normally allowed under tee on Rules would provide the nec- report and only at the appropriate point in an open rule. No additional restrictions essary waivers to enable the bill to the reading of the bill, shall be considered as are written into this rule. This is the come to the floor if the authorizing read, shall be debatable for the time speci- open amendment process. It also offers committee chairmen did not object to fied in the report equally divided and con- an acceptable compromise for many them. If the authorizing chairmen ob- trolled by the proponent and an opponent, Members on the contentious issue of ject to the waivers, then under the shall not be subject to amendment, and shall funding the National Endowment for leadership’s protocol, the Committee not be subject to a demand for division of the the Arts. on Rules would leave the specific lan- question in the House or in the Committee of The rule provides 1 hour of general the Whole. All points of order against the guage in question exposed to a point of amendments printed in the report are debate divided equally between the order on the floor. waived. During consideration of the bill for chairman and ranking minority mem- We attempted to do that a few min- amendment, the Chairman of the Committee ber of the Committee on Appropria- utes ago, before the gentleman from Il- of the Whole may accord priority in recogni- tions. The rule also provides necessary linois [Mr. YATES], the ranking mem- tion on the basis of whether the Member of- waivers to allow the bill to be consid- ber, objected, because it was inadvert- fering an amendment has caused it to be ered on the House floor here today. The ently protected for the Strategic Pe- printed in the portion of the Congressional rule waives section 306 of the Budget troleum Reserve, which if we had re- Record designated for that purpose in clause Act, which prohibits matters within 6 of rule XXIII. Amendments so printed shall ceived the letter in a timely manner be considered as read. The Chairman of the the jurisdiction of the Committee on from the Commerce Department, we Committee of the Whole may: (1) postpone the Budget in a measure not reported would have certainly left that measure until a time during further consideration in by that committee, against consider- exposed, as we have others like the the Committee of the Whole a request for a ation of the bill. NEA. H5050 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Mr. YATES. Mr. Speaker, will the Mr. Speaker, if I might continue to that they are creating a smaller sub- gentleman yield? describe the rule, it also makes in stitute program, which is like throwing Mr. SOLOMON. I yield to the gen- order two additional amendments, one an 11-foot rope down a 12-foot well to tleman from Illinois. by the gentleman from Florida [Mr. rescue someone. The fact remains, Mr. Mr. YATES. Mr. Speaker, I would WELDON] relating to the Canaveral Na- Speaker, with this rule, they are kill- tell the gentleman I would not have ob- tional Seashore and the deficit reduc- ing Federal support for the arts. jected to his amendment had he in- tion lockbox amendment offered by the Mr. Speaker, there is not a congres- cluded as well protection for the Na- gentleman from Idaho [Mr. CRAPO]. sional district in the entire country tional Endowment for the Arts. These amendments are debatable for 10 that has not benefited from the NEA. Mr. SOLOMON. Again there is abso- and 20 minutes respectively, are equal- Even the district of my good friend, the lutely nothing I would not do for the ly divided between a proponent and an gentleman from New York [Mr. SOLO- gentleman from Illinois [Mr. YATES]. opponent and are not subject to further MON] got eight National Endowment The gentleman is the most respected amendment. The rule also waives all for the Arts grants in fiscal year 1994, member of this body. I think we all points of order against the amend- including the Crandall Library in Glens agree to that on both sides of the aisle. ments. Falls, which put on folk and tradi- But let me explain why. Finally, Mr. Speaker, this rule tional art programs; the UNIMA–USA Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the gen- waives clause 2(e) of rule XXI, which Theater in Hyde Park; arts awareness tleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. GOOD- prohibits nonemergency amendments in Lexington, NY, which put on visual LING], chairman of the Committee on to be offered to a bill containing an arts programs, and the Mettawee Thea- Education and the Workforce, wrote to emergency designation under the Budg- ter Company in Salem; and Music for the Committee on Rules and rec- et Act against amendments to the bill. Salem. ommended that the National Endow- The rule also includes one motion to I recognize that in the past, there ment for the Arts not be allowed to recommit, with or without instruc- have been some bad decisions on the continue without an authorization tions, for the minority. part of the NEA but their number was from his committee and, hence, that Having finished describing this im- small, and today it is zero. According the $10 million in the bill for the NEA portant rule, I might emphasize the to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, be exposed to a point of order. We are importance of supporting the lockbox again honoring the protocol, and we less than four ten-thousandths of NEA amendment made in order by this rule. are honoring the request of that com- funds have been misdirected. Again, There are many Members on the other mittee chairman of that very impor- Mr. Speaker, less than four ten-thou- side of the aisle, I think they call tant committee. sandths of NEA funds have been mis- Mr. Speaker, the House has grappled themselves the Blue Dogs, and they all directed. But even since then, Jane Al- with the issue of funding arts programs have asked for this amendment to be exander and her NEA staff have taken for many years now, and this year is no made in order, along with the gen- extraordinary steps to ensure that of- exception. The NEA, as we know it, is tleman from Idaho [Mr. CRAPO] and Re- fensive programs are not funded. likely to be stricken from the bill by a publicans on this side. This amendment Mr. Speaker, artists supported by the point of order. As a matter of fact, it is made in order for them. National Endowment for the Arts have will be, we are told. The Crapo amendment will make the gone on to win Pulitzer Prizes, Na- After that occurrence, the rule pro- budget process more user friendly for tional Book Awards, Emmys, and vides that it shall be in order to con- Members who wish to offer spending Tonys. In fact, the man who wrote the sider an amendment offered by the gen- cut amendments on the floor of the play ‘‘Driving Miss Daisy,’’ Alfred tleman from Michigan [Mr. EHLERS] House and the Senate. When a spending Uhry, says that his play, and I quote, which represents a different approach cut amendment is adopted, savings ‘‘never would have gotten out of the to Federal arts funding. This amend- from that amendment will be credited garage if not for the support of the Na- ment contains a block grant art pro- to deficit reduction and not left hang- tional Endowment for the Arts.’’ ing there to be used for other spending posal which provides a total of $80 mil- b 1445 lion, 40 percent of which is dedicated to purposes. state art commissions in the individual This amendment is identical to the Yet the Republican leadership wants States and 60 percent to local school bill that was reported by the Commit- to add this program to the increasing boards for school-based art activities. tee on Rules during the last Congress pile of popular Federal programs that In other words, we give 40 percent of and passed this House under an open they have already eliminated. this $80 million to the local school dis- rule on September 13, 1995, by a biparti- Now I might add, Mr. Speaker, the tricts in Members’ congressional dis- san vote of 364 to 59. We would expect National Endowment for the Arts is al- tricts so that they can develop the art that same vote today; as a matter of ready operating under enormous cuts. programs as they see fit and not as fact, an even stronger vote since a new Two years ago my Republican col- some bureaucrat here in Washington Congress has been seated since that leagues cut it by 39 percent. Today the sees fit. time and most of those are fiscally con- total NEA budget amounts, and I wish Mr. Speaker, the House should ex- servative Members. Similar lockbox the Members would listen, the total plore various alternatives to address language was also adopted by the NEA budget today amounts to one one- the Federal commitment to the arts. I House on two other occasions attached thousandth of 1 percent, one one-thou- have long believed that rather than to bills like this, appropriations bills. sandth of 1 percent of the entire Fed- take the money from the taxpayers, Mr. Speaker, with such vast support eral budget. In other words, Mr. Speak- perhaps we should just pass the hat for the amendment during the last er, it is not much. around at the next Academy Awards Congress, it follows that it should once So, Mr. Speaker, this debate really is presentation. The amount that we col- again be included with these funding not about money, it is about philoso- lected at that award might double last bills. phy. It is about ending arts experience year’s NEA budget. Certainly those Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of for millions of Americans, all for the people can afford it with their tens of my time. sake of taking a political stand. millions of dollars in salaries and their Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I thank Mr. Speaker, enough is enough. Art earnings. the gentleman from New York [Mr. in all of its forms touches our souls in Mr. Speaker, the Committee on Rules SOLOMON], the chairman of the Com- ways that just cannot be measured in believes this compromise of exposing mittee on Rules, for yielding me the political points, and despite the huge NEA to a point of order to respect the customary one-half hour, and I yield cuts the arts endowment still manages committee system while allowing a myself such time as I may consume. to bring Shakespeare to the inner vote on the approach of the gentleman Mr. Speaker, at the outset, I want to cities, classical music to the Midwest from Michigan [Mr. EHLERS] to Federal be perfectly clear that the rule we are and ballet to the suburbs. It improves arts assistance is a fair and workable considering today will kill for all times children’s basic skills, it improves accommodation for all parties in- the National Endowment for the Arts. their math ability, raises their SAT volved. My Republican colleagues might say scores and enriches their lives, and the July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5051 Republican leadership has no business sage, and in my message to the Amer- participate by contributing to the arts. taking that away. ican people I said: Many large corporations have called President John Adams once said: ‘‘The Founding Fathers designed a for continued support for the National ‘‘I must study politics and war so government with limited defined pow- Endowment for the Arts. But I think that my sons may have the liberty to ers, but that idea has been turned on we should do everything we can to en- study mathematics and philosophy in its head,’’ I said, ‘‘because instead of courage them to participate through order to give their children the right to the government doing only what the even greater philanthropy. study painting, poetry and music.’’ Constitution allows it to do, it does And I have to say that having sup- Mr. Speaker, John Adams was right. whatever the Constitution does not for- ported the Crane amendment myself in To my colleagues who by their sup- bid it to do.’’ the past, this compromise is going to port of this rule decide that we do not And let me tell my colleagues some- allow those local communities to enjoy need the NEA, let me say that since thing: What our Founding Fathers Shakespeare, poetry, other very, very the National Endowment for the Arts could not even comprehend is the idea important arts because 40 percent of was created in 1966 there has been an of paying more in taxes than they do this funding will be going to State arts explosion of community arts across the for food and shelter. Do my colleagues commissions and 60 percent to local entire country. Thanks to the NEA, know that? They could not even begin school districts as we look at this com- Mr. Speaker, we have eight times more to comprehend the idea of the Amer- promise. And during that period of nonprofit theaters, thanks to the NEA ican people working 6 months out of time, if this can in fact become law, we have seven times more dance com- the year just to pay for the cost of gov- and obviously there is a big question panies, and thanks to the NEA we have ernment. Our Founding Fathers would about that based on what might happen four times more orchestras and opera have rolled over in their graves if they in the other body and down on the companies. Without the National En- saw what has been happening here. other end on Pennsylvania Avenue, but dowment for the Arts only people in And, yes, we have over the last 3 if we were to put this package into big cities like Boston, Los Angeles, years, we have eliminated 270 programs place, it seems to me that we could New York, and Houston would be able and bureaus and agencies and bureau- continue down this road of encouraging to enjoy the arts, but thanks to the crats to bring this budget into balance. more and more people to contribute. NEA people all over the country of all That is what this is all about today. The arts are very, very important, ages now experience the joys of art. Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he and I am very proud that my family And these art experiences, Mr. may consume to the gentleman from has spent many years as supporters of Speaker, do more than just bring peo- California [Mr. DREIER], a very valu- the arts. But it seems to me that, as we ple joy or educate our children. Amer- able Member of this body, a member of look at our priorities here, to claim ican culture exports raise thousands the Committee on Rules, vice-chair- that the sky is going to fall if the Na- upon thousands of dollars a year. Every man of the Committee on Rules, to ex- tional Endowment for the Arts is not dollar that the National Endowment pound on that thought a little bit. maintained exactly as it is today is a for the Arts provides attracts an aver- Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I thank ludicrous argument because they are age of $12 from other sources. The non- my friend from Glens Falls, the distin- going to continue, the Government will profit arts industry represents 6 per- guished chairman of the committee, continue to support them through pro- cent of our gross national product. Ac- for yielding this time to me. This has viding opportunities for tax deductions cording to the Ohio Hamilton Journal obviously been an extraordinarily con- to be out there, and I hope very much News, it is as big an industry as con- tentious debate, and I have to say first that we can move ahead with this bal- struction. that to see the gentleman from Massa- anced compromise approach. Mr. Speaker, the arts are most defi- chusetts [Mr. MOAKLEY] stand here and Support this rule, and let us move nitely in our national interest. The ex- make his very eloquent arguments on ahead with the bill. cuse that this represents a singular un- the second anniversary of his liver Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield authorized appropriation is not en- transplant is a very important state- 3 minutes to the gentleman from Wis- tirely true. There are 13 unauthorized ment to this House, and I appreciate consin [Mr. OBEY], the ranking member appropriations in this bill, all of which the fact that he has stepped forward. of the Committee on Appropriations. got waivers, all except the National But now having said that, I have got Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, the gen- Endowment for the Arts. to say that I completely disagree with tleman from New York just said that Mr. Speaker, there is not a State in virtually everything the gentleman this is about saving taxpayers money. this country that does not benefit from from Massachusetts said. The fact is That is not what it is about at all. the National Endowment for the Arts. John Adams did envisage the time Just last week, I would point out, These are wonderful programs, and it when we would see that third genera- this House voted for enough B–2 bomb- would be a shame to see them suffer. tion from politics and war to mathe- ers, which the Pentagon did not want, Anyone who has gone to a children’s matics and philosophy to music and po- to pay for the National Endowment for festival, anyone who has experienced a etry. He envisaged the idea of young the Arts for 108 years. small dance troop, anyone who has en- people in future generations being able In my judgment this rule, Mr. Speak- joyed folk art or seen the benefits of to participate in the arts. er, is a sham and a fraud. It is a cynical art-based literacy programs should join Mr. Speaker, I feel very strongly abuse of power to prevent Members of me in keeping this program alive. Al- about that. My father passed away this both parties from voting to save the though we cannot measure the dollar spring, and he had been chairman and National Endowment for the Arts. benefits of art programs, school president of the opera company in Kan- That is all it is. lunches, health care for poor children sas City, MO, and he was very involved, The rule prevents the gentleman or home heating assistance, there is no and he and I had many arguments from Illinois [Mr. YATES] from offering reason to eliminate them. about that. My dear friend, the gen- a simple amendment to restore funding I urge my colleagues to join me in tleman from Illinois [Mr. YATES] and I for the NEA on the grounds that it is protecting the National Endowment by have discussed this before: My dad not authorized, and then it allows an opposing this rule. wanted me to be a strong supporter of amendment which is 28 pages long Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of the National Endowment for the Arts, which, in essence, is a complete and my time. but I told him that as we looked at es- total rewrite of the NEA: No hearings, Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield tablishing priorities it is very impor- no public comment and not produced myself such time as I may consume. tant for us to realize that there is Gov- by any committee that I know. It is Mr. Speaker, my good friend, the ernment subsidization of the arts be- not a legislative product; it is a politi- gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. cause we provide a tax deduction for cal product. It is a device which was MOAKLEY] quoted John Adams. As my people to make these contributions. designed by the committee simply to colleagues know, over the Fourth of The gentleman from New York [Mr. allow Congress to assassinate the NEA July I had the opportunity to respond SOLOMON] mentioned the fact that behind the smokescreen of this sub- to the President’s Fourth of July mes- many of my constituents could in fact stitute amendment. It is a procedural H5052 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 power play to prevent Members of both b 1500 Arts Agency than they do from here. parties who went up in the Committee So that enhances the quality of life We want to give them some additional on Rules yesterday asking for the sim- for all 260 million Americans. Like- help, because they are out there on the ple right to vote to continue the NEA wise, this bill deals with our energy fu- ground. as is. And it ought to be turned down ture. Last, it provides for sending money because it is a smokescreen. Just this past week I talked to a back to the schools, back to the chil- Mr. Speaker, it is a sham substitute. young lady in my family, who is 141⁄2. dren, where we really teach arts edu- It provides block grants to State agen- She cannot wait to get her driver’s li- cation, where we really teach an appre- cies, but the agencies who are supposed cense. She is looking forward to get- ciation of the cultural heritage of this to receive that money have themselves ting out into the workaday world Nation. said they do not want this arrange- sometime and owning an automobile. Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield ment. They have said: We need to be concerned about energy, 1 minute to the gentleman from Geor- State art agencies rely upon Federal lead- because energy means jobs, energy gia [Mr. LEWIS], the minority whip of ership in funding and identifying and ad- means growth in our economy, energy the Democratic Party. dressing cultural needs that are truly na- means a quality of life that people can Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, tional. We need a partner agency at the Fed- get in their automobile and travel at a I rise today on behalf of the artists, the eral level to play a leadership role in work- reasonable cost. We are blessed in this writers, the actors, the musicians, the ing with our organizations and agencies. Nation with relatively cheap energy. schoolchildren, and the thousands upon It also provides a tiny bit of funding We heard a lot about the tax bill in thousands of people in Georgia and to each school district in the country, the recent debate. Of course, energy is around the Nation who benefit from probably about $500 per school. That is very much a part of that, because the the National Endowment for the Arts. I an amount so small that we have been key to a balanced budget is growth, rise on behalf of all of these people to urged by our Republican friends on the growth in the economy. To have plead with all of my colleagues, Demo- Subcommittee on Labor, Health and growth you have to have energy at a crats and Republicans, to defeat this Human Services, and Education to modest cost. It is vital. We spent not rule, this rule which abolished the Na- eliminate a number of programs be- only lives but a lot of money in Desert tional Endowment for the Arts without cause those provide such small grants Storm to protect energy sources. This so much as a vote. that they are not worth having. bill supports a lot of research to pro- It was President Lyndon JOHNSON Let us not kid ourselves. If we want vide the technologies to assist with who said: to save the NEA, there is only one way meeting our goals of an improved envi- Art is a Nation’s most precious heritage, to do it. It is not to buy into this ronment and a growing economy as we for it is in our works of art that we reveal to phony smokescreen of a substitute look forward to the future into the ourselves and to others the inner vision next century. It truly is a bridge to a which guides us as a Nation. And where there amendment. It is purely and simply to is no vision, the people will perish. vote ‘‘no’’ on this rule, take this back better quality of life in the century to the Committee on Rules, put the ahead. We cannot and we should not and we Yates amendment in order. That is the It also deals with other things. One must not abandon the role of the Fed- least destructive thing to do; it is the of the subjects that is under discussion eral Government in supporting the most fair-minded thing to do. If we is the National Endowment for the arts. Bombs, not books; planes, but not were going to have the Ehlers amend- Arts. Mr. Speaker, I would not begin to poems; missiles, but not music: Is this ment before us, at the very least we denigrate the NEA. I think they have the legacy we will leave for our chil- ought to have the Yates amendment done some excellent work. We had a dren? I say no, and the American peo- before us also so that people can choose symphony group that went out to the ple say no. There is a role for our gov- between conflicting substitutes. schools in my district. If Members ernment to play in supporting the arts, watched the concert on the Mall on and that role is through the National I urge people not to be taken in by July 4 when they ran the tag lines, we Endowment for the Arts. this sham power play. Vote ‘‘no’’ on noticed there was support by the NEA. This rule abolishes the NEA. It does the rule. I think it was a great thing. PBS said not even permit a vote. This rule is a Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 4 it is the most watched program they travesty. It is an insult to our democ- minutes to the gentleman from Ohio have. I could go on with others. racy. Mr. Speaker, let us defeat this [Mr. REGULA], one of the hard-working But likewise I would point out that rule. members of the Committee on Appro- perhaps the most graphic piece of art- Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield priations. He is the chairman of the work in this city is at the Holocaust 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Appropriations Subcommittee on Inte- Museum, what is called Remember the California [Ms. PELOSI]. rior. Children. There are the little plates, Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Speaker, I thank (Mr. REGULA asked and was given ceramics, that have incorporated the the gentleman for yielding time to me. permission to revise and extend his re- artwork of children from all across this Mr. Speaker, the poet Shelley once marks.) Nation as to what the Holocaust means wrote that the greatest force for moral Mr. REGULA. Mr. Speaker, I hope all to them. That was done without an good was imagination. God knows, our of my colleagues will vote for the rule. NEA grant. Let me mention also, if we children and the people of America, but This will allow us to debate a bill of take the passageway from here to the especially our children, need all of the great significance. I think sometimes Cannon Building, we see the artwork imagination they can get to face the it ought to be called the enhanced from schools across the country. Many challenges of the future. Yet, the rule quality of life bill rather than the Inte- of us participate in that arts program. before us today serves to stifle imagi- rior bill, because everything that we do There is no NEA grant, they did it nation and stifle debate by eliminating in this bill literally enhances the qual- without an NEA grant. the National Endowment for the Arts ity of life for our people. It is the fu- What do we do in this bill? We pro- without even the formality of a vote. ture. vide that $80 million, that is $100 mil- Mr. Speaker, the music and the arts For example, the greatest single lion that we have provided over each of are their own excuse for being, but source of recreation in this Nation, and the last 2 years minus the administra- they also help our children learn to it cuts across all spectrums of society, tive costs, because we are going to send gain confidence, to reduce barriers to is the national forests, the parks, the it back to the communities. We are communication, and to enrich the lives fish and wildlife refuges, the BLM going to send it back to the State arts of the American people. lands. These resources are not only a agencies. The arts agencies in my Despite a 32-year history of the NEA source of recreation, but also a source State get a budget from the legislature of bringing the arts to communities all of education, because many schools that they increase every year. Why? across America, to almost every con- take their young people to fish and Because they have had a very success- gressional district, funding over 100,000 wildlife facilities, to the national for- ful administration. They actually get grants, and despite the overwhelming ests, as part of an education process. three times as much from the Ohio support of the American people, and July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5053 despite the economic benefits pointed Yates amendment to restore funding to the essary to allow this type of growth and out by the gentleman from Massachu- NEA. achievement to occur. setts [Mr. MOAKLEY], the rule today And what did we get in this rule? A rigged Aside from the creative benefits of the arts eliminates the NEA without even the legislative procedure that deprives this body of industry to the community are the financial formality of a vote. a voteÐup or downÐon this issue. benefits to the community. The nonprofit arts I urge my colleagues to vote against I understand that the NEA has not been au- industry generates $36.8 billion annually in this uncivil rule and uncivilizing rule. thorized in years. I submit that is not the fault economic activity, supports 1.3 million jobs, Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield of the supporters of the NEA. As a member of and produces $790 million in local government 1 minute to the gentlewoman from New the authorizing committee, I would be happy revenue and $1.2 billion in State revenue. Jersey [Mrs. ROUKEMA]. to vote for a properly structured bill that re- So why then is the NEA under fire? (Mrs. ROUKEMA asked and was forms, restructures, and preserves the NEA. I think everyone in this room would agree: given permission to revise and extend So we asked for the routine waivers for Mr. A balanced budget is a laudable goal. The her remarks.) YATES' amendment, something that is done all NEA, like every other agency of the Federal Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Speaker, I the time around here, and incidently, the same Government including the Pentagon and thank the gentleman for yielding time protections granted to Mr. EHLERS' block grant NASA, should contribute to that effort. How- to me. amendment. We were simply asking the Rules ever, the reduction should be proportionate Mr. Speaker, at the outset I certainly Committee to allow the democratic processÐ and fair and even-handed. want to commend the gentleman, our that's democratic with a lower-case ``d''Ðto But there has been nothing even-handed colleague, the gentleman from Ohio work. and fair about the proposals to eliminate the [Mr. REGULA] for the fine work he has Frankly, Mr. Speaker, if the NEA amend- NEA. And that's what I have been fighting for done on this Interior appropriations ment is offered and defeated, I can live with several years now to both reform and renew bill. I regret that his subcommittee has that. Because the process has been allowed the NEA. been put in this untenable position. I to work. The principle of majority rule should Funding for the NEA stood at $165 million understand that the emotions are run- have been recognized. 2 years ago. This year it stands at $99 million. ning very high on both sides of this That's the American way. If the NEA's opponents win this round this issue. But the House should have the right to work year, funding will be down to the $10 million But although the gentleman from Il- its will on this issue after a complete and open range for the sole purpose of shutting it down. linois [Mr. YATES] and I and many oth- debate. So I must oppose this rule. We should allow ers of us went before the committee While I am here, allow me to address the a vote on the Yates amendmentÐwith the yesterday and asked for democracy, Ehlers-Hunter block grant approach. waiver. This would give us adequate funding that is all we asked for, we sought pro- I applaud these well-intentioned efforts. for the coming yearÐthereby giving the au- tection for an up-or-down vote on this However, I submit that this is not the time and thorizing committee the time to reform and very important issue, and what did we the Interior appropriations bill is not the place renew the NEA in a proper, deliberate, and in- get? We got a rule that is rigged for a to undertake a complete overhaul of our arts telligent manner that is consistent with a legislative procedure that deprives the funding process. world-class democracy. body of an up-or-down vote on this We simply do not have the time to fully ana- That, my colleagues, is the American way. issue. lyze these new proposals. Indeed, this is a job Oppose the rule. Support the arts. Mr. Speaker, I must tell the Members for the authorizing committeeÐthe Education Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield that therefore, I must, regretfully, op- and Workforce Committee. 1 minute to the gentleman from New pose this rule. We should allow a vote Mr. Speaker, you know my position on the York [Mr. HOUGHTON]. on the Yates amendment with the NEA. I have worked for years to reform, (Mr. HOUGHTON asked and was waiver. This would give us adequate strengthen, and protect the NEA. given permission to revise and extend funding for the coming year, and this is Since its formation over 30 years ago, the his remarks.) very important, Mr. Speaker, not a National Endowment of the Arts has provided Mr. HOUGHTON. Mr. Speaker, I rare- rule that permits an unexamined block the public side of a very valuable public-pri- ly speak from the well of the House, grant, so-called block grant, to sub- vate partnership to foster the arts. The people and I even more rarely speak about a stitute for the authorization process of in this room represent the private side of that procedural issue, but in this case I feel the authorization committee. I am a partnership. I must. This is a bad rule and it should member of that committee, and we Since the NEA's birth, the number of com- be defeated. If we stand for anything, should have a deliberate, proper, intel- munity orchestras has grown from 22 to 422. we stand for openness. ligent procedure in the committee The number of professional dance companies Frankly, that is why I am here, to be which is consistent with a world-class has risen from 37 to 300. Community orches- able to use this voting card, to be able democracy. That is the American way. tras have jumped from 58 to over 1,000. to express my opinion. We are going to Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to this The NEA has provided the critical support be prevented from doing that. It is the ruleÐfully understanding that it is difficult to which allowed production of such American heart of this Congress, it is the heart of oppose a so-called open rule. classics as the original ``Driving Miss Daisy,'' the forum, where we express our feel- Mr. Speaker, at the outset I want to com- ``The Great White Hope,'' and a ``Chorus ings as Republicans and Democrats. mend the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] Line.'' The NEA has brought us the television This rule suppresses that discussion. If for his fine work on this Interior appropriations programs ``Live from the Lincoln Center'' and the NEA cannot stand on its own and bill. And I regret that his subcommittee has ``American Playhouse.'' stand the test of debate, it should go been put in this untenable position. However, All told, over 11,000 artists have received down, but let us have a vote on it. I nevertheless must rise this afternoon in op- fellowships from the endowment. They've won I am a Republican, I am a proud Re- position to this rule and in support of the Na- dozens upon dozens of Pulitzer Prizes, Mac- publican, and we Republicans, when we tional Endowment for the Arts. Arthur Awards, and National Book Club assumed leadership in the House, prom- I understand that emotions run high on this Awards. ised we would not shut off debate on very sensitive issue. Some people, probably a The arts have been found to be an impor- critical issues. We preach this. Now let majority in this House, feel that support for the tant part of a child's development. Exposure to us practice it. arts is a cause worth fighting for and that the the arts nourishes imagination and creativity. It Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield NEA is a worthwhile endeavor. I also under- develops collaborative and teamwork skills, in 1 minute to the gentleman from New stand that there are those in this House that addition to flexible thinking and an apprecia- York [Mr. NADLER]. want to eliminate all Federal support for the tion for diversity. (Mr. NADLER asked and was given arts. A University of California study has shown permission to revise and extend his re- I disagree with them but recognize their that after 6 months of piano lessons, pre- marks.) right to their position. schoolers demonstrated significant improve- Mr. NADLER. Mr. Speaker, I rise to So Mr. YATES and I, and many of our col- ment in the types of reasoning required to object in the strongest possible terms leagues, went to the Rules Committee yester- excel in math and science. to this rule. The action of the House day and asked for democracy. We sought pro- It has been the NEA's role to leverageÐnot leadership to deny a vote on the floor tection for a simple up-or-down vote on the replaceÐthe private funding that is so nec- of the House on whether to retain or to H5054 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 abolish the National Endowment for Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield NEA brings the richness of our people the Arts is unconscionable and is an 1 minute to the gentleman from New to the poorest in our communities. So act of cowardice. It is an insult to de- York [Mr. FORBES]. vote no on the rule. Vote to save the mocracy and a great disservice to the (Mr. FORBES asked and was given arts and vote to preserve our rights as American public. The rule specifically permission to revise and extend his re- Members in this House. targets the NEA for extinction. It marks.) Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield waives points of order against every Mr. FORBES. Mr. Speaker, I thank 1 minute to the gentleman from Texas other amendment but one. Why? Be- my colleague for yielding time to me. [Mr. BENTSEN]. cause they are not confident they have Mr. Speaker, this is a very sad time [Mr. BENTSEN asked and was given the votes to defeat the NEA in a fair for me as a Republican Member of this permission to revise and extend his re- and open vote. House, because for 40 years when the marks.] The rule is a cynical attempt to pre- Republicans were in the minority we Mr. BENTSEN. Mr. Speaker, I thank vent the elected representatives of the made it clear that we would not do the gentleman for yielding me the American people from even voting for things this way. We would always have time. or against abolishing a major Govern- the sunshine and daylight allow us to Mr. Speaker, this is not about the ment agency. Instead, the rule permits bring an issue up on the floor and have merits of the NEA. We already know the Ehlers amendment, which is noth- an up-or-down vote. That is what that a majority of the House supports ing but a snare and a delusion. That should happen for the National Endow- the NEA and if we had a vote it would amendment would abolish the NEA and ment for the Arts. This critical pro- pass. It is about the process. It is a con- instead distribute $600, on average, to gram has done so much good. It is the tinuing pattern in this Congress and in every school district for the arts, $600 Republican Congress, the 104th Con- the last Congress. In the last Congress to all school districts. To what use gress, that clamped down on the atroc- we saw when a majority of the Con- could they put that? ities that had come to symbolize un- gress wanted to keep the Government What is really at stake is the avail- fairly this agency. open, the majority would not allow the ability of art to the American people We need to move forward. There have vote. We saw in this Congress when a across the country. Before the NEA been 121 instances in the last Congress majority of the Congress wanted to end there were 58 orchestras in the coun- where we appropriated unauthorized the debacle with the flood disaster in try. Today there are more than 1,000. programs, and there is no reason why the Midwest, the majority in the Con- Before the NEA there were 37 profes- this program and the Yates amend- gress would not allow a vote. sional dance companies. Now there are ment could not have a vote. I would We saw in the B–2, and I voted for the 300. Before the NEA, there were 1 mil- suggest to my colleagues that we need B–2, that the majority in this Congress lion people who attended the theater an up-or-down vote on the NEA. Absent tried to strip the amendment and each year. Today more than 55 million that, I regret that we are going to have caused us to wait 10 hours to consider attend. to vote against the rule. That is some- that bill. We are going to do the same Do we want to go back to that era, thing I truly regret having to do. thing today because no matter what when art was available only in large On the so-called compromise, if Mem- happens with this rule, the NEA will cities, and only to those who could af- bers love the Department of Education get funded because that is the will of ford large sums of money? That is what the majority, the real majority of the is at stake. Vote against this rule. Do and they love the Department of the Interior, they are going to love sending House and not the ruling majority. not be deluded. Just this week in Mexico, last Sun- Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield $80 million more through that bureauc- day, we saw the ruling party allowed 1 minute to the gentleman from Cali- racy, which is not sensitive to the arts free and fair elections and respected fornia [Mr. FARR]. in America. Mr. FARR of California. Mr. Speaker, Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield the will of the people, but the majority I thank the gentleman for yielding 1 minute to the gentleman from New party of this House does not respect time to me. Jersey [Mr. MENENDEZ]. the majority will of the House itself. Mr. Speaker, I hope that those artis- (Mr. MENENDEZ asked and was What a shame that is. Defeat the rule. tic surgeon’s hands that saved the gen- given permission to revise and extend Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield tleman’s liver are the ones that got his remarks.) 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Texas [Ms. JACKSON-LEE]. some training from the NEA. b 1515 Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to [Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked this rule, because the Committee on Mr. MENENDEZ. Mr. Speaker, the and was given permission to revise and Rules has failed to allow this House to Committee on Rules abuses the rights extend her remarks.] vote for the continued funding of the of Members by not allowing an amend- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. National Endowment for the Arts. In- ment supported by Republicans and Speaker, I rise on behalf of the chil- stead, it gives us the Ehlers amend- Democrats alike to keep the National dren. I rise against the attack on the ment, and I urge all my colleagues to Endowment for the Arts alive. That is NEA because it is summarily unaccept- read that amendment, because it first undemocratic, and the President will able. abolishes the National Endowment for veto it if it comes to him in that way. SOS: The Fourth of July will have to the Arts. This is a bad idea. Members I know the value of the arts to my be canceled in Washington, DC, for the might ask why, why is it bad for Amer- communities in New Jersey, in Jersey NEA sponsored last week, the NEA ica? City, Hoboken, Newark. They have re- sponsored last week the Fourth of July It is bad for the schools, it is bad for vitalized downtown businesses, attract- celebration for this Nation. How unfor- our communities, and most of all, it is ing conferences, conventions, increased tunate that the Yates amendment and bad for business, so bad that the presi- tourism, new business, boosting the other amendments to restore NEA dents and CEO’s of America’s largest value of commercial and residential funding in the Committee on Rules corporations have written the Speaker real estate. were not allowed. asking him to sustain the funding for They are a powerful, positive eco- Quality of life issues: Less than 0.6 the arts. Companies likes Pepsi-Cola, nomic ripple effect in our commu- percent of the Federal budget is spent Dean Witter, Procter & Gamble, B.F. nities. To eliminate that funding hurts on our children and the arts. Rep- Goodrich, Chase Manhattan Bank have our communities. They are important resenting most of the arts community joined 70 other Fortune 500 companies for the education of our children. They in Houston, let me say to you that this in requesting the support of the NEA. move beyond math and science to is a ridiculous trampling on the arts, Why? Because the structure of the NEA something equally important, imagina- the culture and the history of this Na- serves as a clearinghouse for giving tion and creativity, allowing students tion. What a tragedy that this Nation grant money. to interpret their community and the does not recognize what the real qual- Most importantly, creativity is world around them. And the arts are a ity of life is all about. We are going to America’s greatest gift. Preserve cre- bridge to cross-cultural understanding, win this. We are not going to see the ativity, preserve the NEA. bringing us together as a nation. The clocks turned back. We are going to July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5055 stand up for the children so they know grant requests denied. Their losses, like that town and rural communities cannot afford to what art is about, they know their cul- of the Alley's, will have a collateral effect on support a full symphony, orchestra, or mu- ture and they know their history. We the quality of life in the communities they seum. are going to stand up and make sure serve, to the detriment of arts education, com- Funding for the NEA is not a Republicans this rule is defeated. merce, and tourism.'' versus Democrats issue. There are even Re- I ask my colleagues to join me. Bring Mr. Speaker, that is what this debate is publicans that support level funding for the up the quality of life and let us keep about. The quality of life for Americans and NEA. It is not a conservative versus liberal the Fourth of July celebrated in the their families and children throughout this issue. Funding for the NEA is a cultural issue. United States of America. country. This is not about the few bad choices Important cultural, educational, and artistic Mr. Speaker; I speak in order to express my made by the NEA in the past. This is about programs are funded by the NEA. Business vehement intent to oppose this rule for H.R. the ability of children and families to view pro- leaders, educators, cities, States, and even 2107Ðthe Department of the Interior and re- ductions of plays and musicals; the ability of law enforcement officials support funding for lated agencies appropriations bill of 1968. The children and families to experience art and art the NEA. After schools arts programs keep related agency that this rule seeks to eliminate education; the ability of a child to travel across kids off the streets. We have all heard the is the National Endowment for the Arts. town to an outdoor play with his father and phrase ``an idle mind is the devil's workshop.'' The current funding level of $10 million ap- mother and share in a meaningful family out- If we are able to reach kids and take them off propriated in H.R. 2107 for the NEA is sum- ing where the love of a family can be shared; of the streets via an after school arts program, marily unacceptable and needed to be where a community can come together in then why don't we. Funding for the NEA ex- changed. My amendment restored funding for place; where the quality of life for residents in poses inner city minority children to Hamlet the NEA to $99.5 million. a city can be improved by an arts event that and the Othello. The difference between my amendment and both educates and entertains. The Cultural Arts Council of Houston/Harris the amendment of my colleague, Representa- What is the need to summarily eliminate an County receives funding from the NEA. They tive YATES, was that my restoration was offset area of the Federal Government that is work- have over 115 members that receive funding by a reduction in the Forest ServiceÐforest ing. Funding for the NEA represents less than from them. These organizations would be dra- and rangeland research appropriation; while six-ten-thousandthsÐ0.0006 percentÐof the matically hurt by the destablization of funding his restoration was offset by using the strate- entire Federal budget. With that six-ten-thou- due to cuts in the NEA. gic petroleum reserve. sandths percentÐ0.0006 percent, the NEA is The NEA stimulates local and national I am outraged that the Rules Committee has still the largest single source of funding for the economies and helps to create jobs. It is esti- decided to stop the democratic process by not nonprofit arts in the United States. This invest- mated that nationally, the NEA generates $37 allowing the Congress to do its job. The Rules ment of the U.S. Government is an investment billion in economic activity and returns $3.4 Committee had decided to use Gestapo ma- in the quality of life for families and children. billion in Federal income taxes to the U.S. neuvering in not allowing the House of Rep- It spawns investment and giving to the arts by Treasury each year. The estimated impact to resentatives to vote on such an important the American people, private and corporate the Houston community because of funding issue as preserving an important part of Amer- donors. However, increased demands on all cuts to the NEA was a negative $1.5 million ican culture through the arts. sectors of private giving have recently pre- across all manners of organizations both great How is it that the chairman of the Rules sented corporate and individual donors with and small. Houston's diversity of institutions Committee can completely stop the demo- tough choices. How can we expect private do- makes it a great city. We do not believe in elit- cratic process. Why are we all here? The nations to the arts to increase, when we do ism. Cultural diversity is keen. If funding for Rules Committee was never used to stop the not keep our commitment to the NEA. This is the NEA is drastically cut, then the negative democratic process. Under the dictator type the time that the Federal Government should impact in Houston will be devastating, estimat- leadership of the Republicans, the democratic be making an investment in the NEA; not clos- ing that it will cost the city over $3 million in process is not taking place. ing it. economic gains. If the House of Representatives to hold its Who are we really hurting if we do not fund The Houston Ballet is internationally known. title as the people's House, then Democrats and support the arts. We are hurting middle C.C. Conner, the managing director of the and Republicans should work together in class and poor America. Seven point fiveÐ7.5 Houston Ballet expressed that, ``private sup- openness and fairness. But that is simply not percentÐof funding for the NEA goes directly port cannot replace the role of the Govern- the case. The Republican majority of the to projects in under-served communities. ment cultural funding.'' He states that, ``fund- House has the power to decide which legisla- Through access and outreach related grants, ing from the NEA has played a significant role tion will be brought to the floor and what will the NEA has helped to make the arts acces- in Houston Ballet's growth from a small re- be voted on. However, under the Republican sible to millions of Americans who could not gional company to what is today, according to dictatorship of the Rules Committee, the full otherwise afford them. What does that mean? many dance critics, one of the premier dance House is completely stopped from voting on It means that children in poor communities will companies in the United States * * * how- important legislation of the American people. not have access to plays, musicals, stage pro- ever, one can safely say that Texas' citizens I am outraged at where this debate on fund- ductions, and arts education that serve to in- and taxpayers are losing jobs and income as ing for the NEA is heading. The opponents of crease the quality of life and overall edu- a result of NEA cutbacks.'' funding for the NEA are quick to trot out the cational value of American children. We are occasional bad choices made by the NEA. hurting the very people that we are sent here The NEA makes the arts accessible to all However, it is important to highlight and inform to help. We are hurting families who are trying Americans. There is no doubt that a people the American public of the vast majority of ac- to raise their children to respect the commu- and culture without a preservation of the arts tivities funded by the NEA. nity. Mr. Speaker, we are hurting America. in history are doomed. I urge my colleagues to In Houston, TX, the Alley Theater is an ex- Most grants of the NEA help support com- oppose this dictatorial rule. cellent representation of the value of the NEA munity outreach projects, free and touring con- Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 and the arts in Texas. The Alley Theater is cerns, and educational initiatives that make minutes to the gentleman from Florida family oriented with over 200,000 persons at- our major institutions accessible to all Ameri- [Mr. GOSS] a very valuable member of tending productions annually. To quote Paul cans. How many children will not hear the the Committee on Rules and chairman Tetreault, the managing director of the Alley sweet and magnificent sounds of the sym- of the Permanent Select Committee on Theater in Houston, ``the NEA has given phony and orchestra because of this bill. How Intelligence. meaning support to the Alley and its audi- many families that cannot afford to by tickets (Mr. GOSS asked and was given per- ences for many years.'' However, this year, to the symphony will be left out of valuable mission to revise and extend his re- the Alley was denied funding for a production and quality appreciation of the performing arts. marks.) as a result of reduced budgets. He states that, Cutting funding for the NEA will not only Mr. GOSS. Mr. Speaker, I thank the ``it was a great surprise and disappointment to negatively affect cities, but it will also nega- distinguished gentleman from Glens see that support interrupted at a time when tively affect rural, small town communities. Falls, NY, for yielding me the time and the Alley is realizing its greatest artistic NEA grants serve communities in both urban I rise in support of this mainly open achievements.'' Mr. Tetreault goes on to say and rural areas. In most small towns across rule. that, ``many other deserving theaters, muse- the country, traveling tours, exhibits, and con- Mr. Speaker, the Interior appropria- ums, dance and opera companies have been certs are the major exposure to the live per- tions bill, which is what this is, pro- even more deeply affected by having their forming arts that children receive. The small vides important funding to protect our H5056 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 natural resources for future genera- In New York State, the NEA is a Mr. Speaker, summer is a time when tions, including our children. The un- boon to the economy. The arts employ many of our constituents pack up the derlying bill is an excellent example of approximately 174,000 New Yorkers and family and head off to vacation, maybe doing more with less. attract millions of tourists annually, to the Nation’s Capital to take advan- We are going to save money by focus- producing an estimated $13 billion in tage of the diverse cultural institu- ing our limited resource in priority revenue. Without the NEA, local thea- tions that Washington has to offer. I areas. Even though this bill spends $100 ter and educational groups that intro- am pleased to note that the bill pro- million less than last year’s appropria- duce children to the arts will be forced vides priority funding for the Smithso- tion, it still provides important fund- to dim their lights. That would be a se- nian Institution, the National Gallery ing increases for our national parks, rious loss to this country. of Art, the John F. Kennedy Center and the National Forest System, and the Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield the National Holocaust Museum. National Wilderness Refuges, which 1 minute to the gentleman from Vir- Mr. Speaker, the Committee on Rules many Americans and American chil- ginia [Mr. MORAN]. worked very hard to find a way to re- dren use. Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Speak- solve the controversies surrounding the Especially important for my home er, this rule needs to be defeated be- funding for the National Endowment State of Florida, this is a vehicle for cause if it passes, the National Endow- for the Arts. This has been a difficult the crucial Everglades restoration ment for the Arts and all the great emotional issue for Members on both funds. These funds permit us to meet work that it does will be defeated. sides of the debate, and many thought- the Federal commitment in our ongo- During our hearing on the Sub- ing effort to restore and preserve for ful arguments have been made for why committee on Interior of the Commit- the NEA should or should not continue future generations, especially our chil- tee on Appropriations, we heard from a dren, the unique river of grass. as it is today. I believe this rule offers young lady by the name of Denyce a very fair approach to debating the Another important provision is the Graves. She grew up just a very few extension of the Outer Continental question of whether the Federal Gov- miles from here, right next to the Ken- ernment should be engaged in promot- Shelf oil and gas exploration morato- nedy Center, but the Kennedy Center rium, which protects Florida’s fragile ing the arts in America and to what de- could have been a world away. She gree. coastline from oil slicks and pollution. never had the money to go to the Ken- Each year for the last 13 years Con- nedy Center. This rule permits the House to de- gress has passed this moratorium, and But because of an NEA grant, there bate an amendment which will trans- I am pleased that the committee has was a community opera production form the current NEA to a block grant once again seen fit to include this com- that she went to when she was a teen- program funded at $80 million, to be monsense measure. So many people ager. She was inspired by it. She went administered by the States. This may enjoy our beaches and shores, includ- on to devote her career to being an not be the preferred option for those ing, of course, all Americans, many opera singer. She now plays Carmen at who strongly support the NEA, but in visitors, and especially our children. the Met. That may not seem important my view it is an honest, good faith at- As always, there are some issues in to the Members of this body, but I tempt to resolve this difficult situation this bill that remain controversial and know it is important to millions of and to maintain an appropriate Federal probably always will be. But the gen- young families and children around the commitment to promoting the arts and tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] has country who would like that similar the culture in American society. done an outstanding job balancing the opportunity and will not have that op- Mr. Speaker, in closing let me say very diverse views of this body. that I deeply appreciate the hard work This rule likewise reflects a genuine portunity if it is only the elitist orga- of my colleague, the gentleman from workable compromise. I think it is a nizations that are funded. NEA works Ohio [Mr. REGULA]. good process. I think the rule is a good on behalf of the real people of America. rule, and I think it is a good bill. Give their talent an opportunity to ex- We all recognize the tight con- If the NEA is the only way to culture press itself. We are all richer because straints of the Federal budget and the in America, then we have got a prob- of it. contentiousness of many of these is- lem. This rule provides for us to look Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 sues. He has crafted a bill that bal- at other ways to get public money, tax minutes to the gentlewoman from Ohio ances good government choices with a dollars, to the public for the purpose of [Ms. Pryce], a very distinguished mem- paramount need to restore, preserve, the arts. Those who suggest the sky is ber of the Committee on Rules. and protect our Nation’s natural and falling on the arts if the NEA is cut Ms. PRYCE of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I cultural resources. This is a respon- back or curtailed do not understand thank the distinguished chairman of sible bill. And under this rule we will that there are many ways and many as- the committee for yielding me the have a chance for an open debate. I pects to the arts. I believe that the time. I rise in strong support of this urge my colleagues in the strongest block grant opportunity is one we fair rule. This is about the NEA, but it possible terms to vote for this fair and should examine, and will under this is only a small part of this legislation. open rule and to support the Interior rule. This appropriations bill is also about appropriations bill that it supports. Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield preserving our Nation’s rich heritage, Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from New our natural resources like our national 1 minute to the gentleman from Penn- forests and parks; our human re- York [Mrs. MALONEY]. sylvania [Mr. FOGLIETTA]. Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. sources, like improving native Amer- Mr. FOGLIETTA. Mr. Speaker, we Speaker, I rise against the rule and in ican education and the many museums look back over history and we see that support of one of America’s greatest and cultural centers all around the the great civilizations are not remem- treasures, the National Endowment for country. bered for the wars that they fought. the Arts. This bill is about keeping our history My colleagues, who want to slash the and heritage alive for people of all ages They are not remembered for the peo- NEA budget, say it is elitist and con- and all walks of life to see and to ple that they killed in those wars. troversial. Some claim that eliminat- enjoy. What we do today in this bill The great civilizations of history are ing the NEA will help cut the deficit. will not just preserve our past for the remembered for the arts that they pro- But their numbers do not add up. The record books, it will also enable us to vided for their people: music, art, NEA budget represents only 0.01 per- educate our children and grandchildren sculpture, and literature. But through- cent of the Federal budget. That trans- about who we are and where we came out those ages, it was not always easy lates into 35 cents a person, little more from and the events that shaped our for those who advocated the arts. than the cost of one postage stamp. In Nation’s history. By caring for these There were always those in govern- fact the NEA actually brings in money. precious resources, we honor the legacy ment who wanted to prevent the arts The arts generate $36 billion in revenue of our land and the struggles and the from progressing. and pay $3.4 billion in Federal income accomplishments of those who came When Rodin developed the great taxes. before us. sculpture of the Burghers of Calais, July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5057 they would not pay him for that. Mi- Small amounts of public arts support and other performing groups brighten chelangelo was thrown in jail. The im- leverages immense amounts of outside our communities. pressionists were prevented from pre- funding, which have the net result of Leslie Abrams, one of Maine’s best senting their art. So all through his- creating more jobs, greater profits, and comediennes, put it well: ‘‘A world tory we had those who have objected to more taxes. The work of NEA can be without art is gray, lifeless, dull. The the arts. justified simply on the basis of what it musicians, the actors, the dancers, the I may be soon visiting Rome. When I does to advance the arts, but it also sculptors, the composers, the painters, go to Rome and I go to La Scala or I go contributes to the vitality as well as to the photographers, the choreographers, to the National Gallery in Naples or I the economy of our communities. It is the writers and, yes, even the go to the Pitti Palace or the Uffizi, a positive, positive national force. Let comediennes like myself, are there to allow me to say to those Italians that us defeat the rule. bring color and joyful noise to the we, the greatest Nation in the world, Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 world. We help others find what is uni- also preserve and support the arts. minute to the gentleman from Illinois versal in our experience.’’ Vote no on this rule. [Mr. CRANE], a distinguished member of Support the NEA. Vote against this Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield the Committee on Ways and Means. rule. 1 minute to the gentleman from Wash- Unfortunately, we only have 1 Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 ington [Mr. DICKS]. minute we can allocate to him, but he minute to the gentleman from Califor- (Mr. DICKS asked and was given per- deserves it. nia [Mr. DUKE CUNNINGHAM], a very val- mission to revise and extend his re- Mr. CRANE. Mr. Speaker, I thank uable Member of this body. marks.) the gentleman for yielding me this Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Speaker, if Mr. DICKS. Mr. Speaker, I had the time, and I will try to compress a lot in we want to save the arts and save the honor of serving on the Subcommittee 1 minute. arts for children, $80 million goes to all on Interior for 21 years, both under the One of the things that struck my States, not the majority to New York chairmanship of the gentleman from Il- mind is there was $10 million provided or my State of California. There was a linois [Mr. YATES] and the gentleman for of continued funding for NEA, and Republican compromise back in 1995. As the chairman of the subcommittee, from Ohio [Mr. REGULA]. To me this is with their 20 percent overhead costs, along with the majority leader, we one of the saddest days that I can re- that leaves $8 million for distribution. brought moderate Republicans, con- member. That $8 million for distribution I think I believe that the National Endow- servatives, in an agreement to save the we can probably raise out of the pock- ment for the Arts deserves the support arts for 3 years. Give them $99 million, ets at least of those colleagues here of the Congress and of the American let them establish their own endow- who are such staunch supporters of the people. I believe that if we go back to ment, their own endowment, and take NEA. 1964 and we see the Endowment created it off of taxpayers. One of the things that concerns me and we look at the growth in funding Twenty million dollars in adminis- about it is the maldistribution of NEA from the private sector, it matches the trative fees, the rest of it going to New funds. The majority of those funds go growth of our Federal support for the York and California, very little to to D.C., New York, and L.A. My dis- endowment. many of the States, we decided to get trict is significantly larger than D.C. b rid of that. Let us put the money down 1530 in population. We got $5,000. But Wash- to the States, down to the children, I believe that over 100,000 grants have ington, DC, got double what my whole and take it out of the liberal hands of been made and less than 50 have been State of Illinois got. the NEA. controversial. When we think of the It is a good old boy network. It is What this rule does is eliminate the arts, we think of controversy. I think time to terminate that and depend organization, not the arts. If we want that is an incredible record. upon the voluntary contributions to- our rhetoric to go where it is and save I urge my colleagues today to sup- taling $9.5 billion a year out of the the arts, let us put the money down port the gentleman from Massachu- pockets voluntarily of citizens. there. When we talk about policy, when setts [Mr. MOAKLEY] and the gentleman Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield the Democrats were in the majority from Illinois [Mr. YATES]. Let us defeat myself such time as I may consume to they eliminated this amendment on an this rule. Let us send them back to the say that that good old boy network my up or down vote because they knew it Committee on Rules and come out here friend just referred to is run by a would pass, that the money would get with an amendment that allows us to woman. to the children, not to the liberal NEA vote up or down on the NEA. This Mr. Speaker, I would like to inquire itself. block grant thing is nothing but a of the time remaining. Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield fraud, in my opinion. The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. 1 minute to the gentleman from North Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield CAMP). The gentleman from Massachu- Carolina [Mr. HEFNER]. 1 minute to the gentleman from Cali- setts [Mr. MOAKLEY] has 5 minutes re- (Mr. HEFNER asked and was given fornia [Mr. CAPPS]. maining and the gentleman from New permission to revise and extend his re- (Mr. CAPPS asked and was given per- York [Mr. SOLOMON] has 6 minutes re- marks.) mission to revise and extend his re- maining. Mr. HEFNER. Mr. Speaker, I am a marks.) Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield little bit troubled by this. I would say Mr. CAPPS. Mr. Speaker, I rise in 1 minute to the gentleman from Maine to my good friend that this rule is ab- fierce opposition to the rule. In my dis- [Mr. ALLEN]. solutely a gag rule. trict in California the National Endow- Mr. ALLEN. Mr. Speaker, I rise in Now, we have had some examples in ment for the Arts has supported such strong support of the National Endow- the Committee on Appropriations valuable programs as the Children’s ment for the Arts. Maine is a small about some of the abuses in the NEA. Creative Project, the Santa Barbara State but there the NEA has helped us Certainly we do not like the abuses Museum of Art, Cal Poly Arts, the achieve innovative arts programming. that have occurred in this NEA. But let Santa Barbara Symphony Orchestra, As a former president of the Portland me remind my colleagues of this: There UC Santa Barbara Arts and Lectures, Stage Co., I have seen firsthand how a are abuses that occur in all programs. Cuesta College Public Events, and the very small amount of Federal funding We do not close down our military list goes on and on. helps to support local efforts. It spurs academies simply because we have had The National Endowment for the the local economy. In Portland, for ex- scandals. In the Naval Academy, all Arts also contributes to the economy ample, over 150,000 people a year visit the academies, we have had scandals. of California. Funding for NEA is only the Children’s Museum, and while We have funded on this floor over $20 a mere 0.001 percent of our Nation’s $1.7 there they eat in our restaurants, they billion for a B–1 bomber, which I sup- trillion dollar Federal budget, but this shop in our stores and they revitalize ported, that has never flown a mission seed money snowballs when private and our economy. and took no part in the Persian Gulf. It nonprofit sectors see the government’s In rural Maine, small amounts of has never flown a mission. We do not endorsement and then add to it. NEA funds help musical, theatrical, stop building airplanes. H5058 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 One of the greatest things for my is all that will be required. Therefore, tleman and a decent and honorable kids, when they were going to school in if we are for the National Endowment man respected by the whole body. this little country school, was when for the Arts, as I know many of my And my particular compliments to the local symphony from Charlotte or friends on the Republican side are, my good friend, the gentleman from Il- Raleigh or someplace would come and then we must vote against this rule. It linois [Mr. YATES]. do a skit for them. They were abso- is that simple. b 1545 lutely enraptured by it. More than that, if we think that This is a good program. We want to Members of the House should be al- Mr. YATES and I have labored over weed out the bad things but, in my lowed to vote on this question and not this issue throughout all the years I view, this rule is absolutely a gag rule be required to accept it as an imprima- have been here, and he, even years be- to keep us from doing what is the tur from the Committee on Rules, we fore I came; and I have found him in democratic way in this House. Vote should vote against this rule. every instance to be a gentleman, a down this rule. The gentleman from California, Mr. compassionate, a concerned, a sharing Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield DAVID DREIER, my good friend, talked and a caring man, stubbornly holding myself 2 minutes. about the fact that if NEA is killed, we to his point of view, but I appreciated We have heard a lot about a gag rule will have the same kind of an arts com- him then and I appreciate him now. on this floor today. Let us be perfectly munity throughout the country. Mr. Mr. Speaker, every year, in every clear. This rule is an open rule. Any Speaker, nothing is further from the summer that I have been in Congress, Member can stand up here and offer truth. NEA brings the arts to every we have dealt with the Interior appro- any amendment under an open rule American community, not just to the priations bill, and in each of these that is allowed under the rules of this big cities. times the debate has been, more than House. That is clear. Oh, we will have the big cities with anything else, about the National En- Several years ago I wrote a book, their arts, as they always have. We will dowment for the Arts. ‘‘Before Its Time,’’ which dealt with have Chicago and New York and we In some respects I think that has balancing the Federal budget. In that, will have Houston and Los Angeles. All been unfortunate because of all the dealing with the arts, I said then the of them will have the same kinds of good things that are covered in this central question is whether or not the wonderful arts companies that they bill that too often get overlooked. The Federal Government should be subsi- have had. But the cities, small cities National Endowment for the Arts has dizing art and humanities, and went on like Jessup, IA, or Gilpin, GA, popu- always been, in this case, bigger than to say, ‘‘As George Will points out, we lations of 2,500, will not be able to get life. It has always been a very small had the poetry of Walt Whitman and the benefits of the arts. fraction of the total spending of the the paintings of Grandma Moses’’— I should read to my colleagues, and I bill, in this case less than $100 million from my district—‘‘without this kind do not know whether I will have in a $14 billion bill. of aid.’’ enough time, but I want to point out The National Endowment for the I went on to say that, ‘‘While it may there was a witness who appeared be- Arts is small with respect to the extent be true that reducing funding would re- fore our committee from Jessup, IA, to which the Nation supports the arts, sult in fewer of these activities, private who pointed out what a grant to that $100 million or less as over and against funding can and should be able to fill small farm community meant to the the $10 billion that the American peo- the gap. In fact, subsidies account for a people who were there. When they ple put out. It is certainly small rel- mere fraction of what the actual heard that they were going to have a ative to the people’s business, which is amount spent on the arts is. In 1990, quartet come to Jessup, IA, the local a $1.6 trillion budget that will be Americans donated nearly $8 billion to furniture store supplied the beds, an- brought into balance as we complete the arts, culture, and the humanities. other family would sacrifice a TV. all of this year’s work. The commitment to the arts goes far I would refer my colleagues to page 3 What makes it so big? What makes it beyond the NEA.’’ of the hearings for 1994 if they want to so big? It is made big by the concerted, Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of see what happened to this small com- well-funded, well-motivated efforts of my time. munity which had this grant. It was a the art elite in America, who want the Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield wonderful, wonderful experience for focus to be not on whether or not there the balance of my time to the gen- which it would be deprived in the fu- will be funding over the arts, but tleman from Illinois [Mr. YATES], a ture if the arts go down. I hope we will whether or not they will be in control dear friend, a fellow who has done so vote down this rule. of the funding of the arts. much for the NEA, and whose amend- Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield This rule, I said, makes in order the ment should be made in order but it is myself such time as I may consume to Interior appropriations bill, which has not. just say that out of respect for the gen- within it $10 million for support of the Mr. YATES. Mr. Speaker, I thank the tleman from Illinois, we let him go a arts from the Federal Government; $10 gentleman from Massachusetts for little beyond his time. We hope our col- million not protected by an exception yielding me this time. leagues will allow the majority leader to the rules of the House. The rule also Mr. Speaker, as we have heard in this to do the same. makes in order an amendment that debate, the fundamental question that Mr. Speaker, I yield the balance of would give $80 million to support for is involved is the one that we had with my time to the gentleman from Texas the arts if passed. respect to the Crane amendment. This [Mr. ARMEY], our distinguished major- So what we find here is people who is a vote to determine whether or not ity leader. mobilize their efforts to protect their we kill the NEA. This is a vote that Mr. ARMEY. Mr. Speaker, I want to control over $10 million as opposed to will deprive me of the opportunity of thank the gentleman from New York having local control over $80 million. offering an amendment that will allow for yielding me this time. My colleagues do not think this is the House to determine the question as Let me begin by extending my com- about control? My colleagues do not to whether funds should be allowed to pliments to the gentleman from New think this is about power? My col- keep NEA in operation. York [Mr. SOLOMON] and the gentleman leagues do not want to confess it is One point should be made, Mr. from Massachusetts [Mr. MOAKLEY] and about an elite that says let us keep the Speaker. If this rule is approved, it is the other members of what I might money in our arts community centers inevitable that NEA will be stricken dare characterize as the long suffering across the country and within our con- from the bill on a point of order and Committee on Rules for completing trol so we can decide what is art and nobody will be allowed to offer an their work again late last night to what is not art? amendment with respect to NEA. bring this rule to the floor today. That is precisely what it is about. One point is indisputable. If this rule I would also like to give my com- Should we, in fact, have the good peo- goes down, this rule will come back pliments to the chairman of the Inte- ple of Iowa decide for themselves at the with only one change, the opportunity rior appropriations bill, the gentleman local level what they would support, or to offer an amendment for NEA. That from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], a fine gen- should they send off an application to a July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5059 board of art censors in the East who our case, and instead makes in order an NEA- Absent the argument of whether or not the know better what is or is not art suit- killing amendment. NEA should continue, there is a yet a bigger able for the people in Iowa? Should we The bill as reported by the Appropriations concern being debated hereÐDemocracy. have the local control? Should we have Committee reduces funding for the NEA to This rule denies this Chamber a straight up a fair disbursement of the money so ev- $10 million from the current year's funding and down vote on funding the NEA. It allows erybody in this Nation on a per capita level of $99.5 million. And that's on top of a an attempt to reach compromise by block basis gets a fair share of the art? Or 40 percent cut already inflicted on the NEA 2 granting arts funds without any hearings. This should we have it sent to the arts cen- years ago. I understand that Members of the amendment, while supposedly sympathetic to ters like Soho in New York City? Republican leadership have been spearhead- the arts, operates on the premise of eliminat- Should we make it more possible for ing the effort to eliminate the NEAÐreminis- ing the NEAÐa premise with which I cannot more children to have more Crayolas in cent of a Republican-led effort to get rid of Big agree. their hands by virtue of local control Bird a few years agoÐand that's why we have Henry Wadsworth Longfellow wrote that: where they can do art, or should we this rule before us. What I fail to understand ‘‘Art is the child of Nature; yes, have already privileged artists and is why. Her darling child, in whom we trace privileged troops and privileged organi- The NEA plays an extremely important role The features of the mother’s face, zations in our major cities have addi- in educating our children about art and pro- Her aspect and her attitude.’’ tional money that supports the already moting the arts. Not only is this a worthwhile That quote leads me to ask one question. rich budgets they have? endeavor in and of itselfÐthe arts enrich our What kind of mother are we then if we de- This is not about whether or not lives and are an integral part of our cultureÐ value the arts? Allow a vote on NEA funding. there is Federal funding for the arts but the arts also contribute to a vibrant econ- Defeat this rule. supported by the Congress. This is omy all across our country. In fact, to those Mr. MANTON. Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposi- about whether or not the Congress will who say the NEA is a waste of taxpayers tion to this unfair and damaging rule. The fu- let that funding be controlled and dis- money or a luxury we can't afford in era of ture of the National Endowment for the Arts bursed by an elite group or whether it tight budgets, I say the NEA is a wise invest- lies to the balance. The important programs will be controlled and disbursed by the ment. While the NEA comprises only a tiny funded through the NEA play an integral part local community. fraction of the total Federal budgetÐapproxi- in our communities and schools, in turn, hav- If my colleagues want more funding mately 1/1000thÐfor this small investment mil- ing a tremendous positive impact on the future for the arts than what is in the bill, if lions of nonfederal dollars are matched to fur- of our children and society as a whole. As a they want fair distribution of the fund- ther promote the arts, and the arts return more member of the Congressional Arts Caucus, I ing for the arts that is in the bill, if than $3 billion to the Federal treasury in arts- take a special interest in protecting the future they want local communities to deter- related commerce. of the NEA. mine for themselves what is or is not Through the NEA, the arts are supported in The NEA plays a crucial role in providing art that they would like to see in their every State, reaching people in small towns the tools necessary to enhance the arts pro- communities from this bill, vote ‘‘yes’’ and rural areas who otherwise may have no grams of our Nation. Without it, access to mu- for this rule and make this in order. opportunity to enjoy music, dance, or theater. seums, theaters, festivals, and other celebra- If, on the other hand, they want to Eliminating the NEA and replacing it with a tions of the arts would be greatly limited. We perpetuate a system of art censorship new bureaucracy that would be required to ad- cannot allow this to happen. held in the hands of a group of elite ac- minister this untested unproven block grant The arts play a vital role in education and tivists sponsored by the Federal Gov- system would jeopardize those opportunities enhance our communities. By promoting art ernment of the United States for the and would end the Endowment's grants for programs in our schools, we create more well- express purpose of deciding this is or lifelong learning programs such as those that rounded, self-confident students who excel in this is not art, then vote for control, serve our Nation's adults, senior citizens, and their studies. Art programs benefit our commu- vote against freedom, vote against fair- disabled citizens. Access to the arts that nities by bringing together a wide range of cul- ness, vote for the status quo, and they young people and adults now enjoy through tural activities for all our citizens while also can have that. public radio and television and touring cultural strengthening local economies. If my colleagues truly, in their heart, programs would be canceled. New York City is home to numerous muse- can reach down and say it is fair to Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I urge my col- ums, theaters, and dance groups who rely on continue the National Endowment for leagues to reject this rule. Let us stand with funding from the NEA. These attractions draw the Arts, which has been the single the U.S. Conference of Mayors and the Na- millions of tourists each year to our city, gen- most visible and deplorable black eye tional Association of Counties who believe erating billions of dollars for the New York City on the arts in America that I have seen there is a Federal role in the arts and with the economy while creating thousands of jobs for in my lifetime, as opposed to what real National Assembly of State Arts Agencies its residents. In my District of Queens, numer- people and their real communities did which opposes block granting all Federal arts ous art programs rely on funding from the to celebrate the arts, music, classics in dollars. Let us stand up for nurturing our chil- NEA. I was proud to have 12 cultural groups their own communities for 200 years dren and our country's cultural heritage. This from my district benefit from the NEA during before there was a National Endow- rule is wrong, it is antidemocratic, and it fiscal year 1997. If their funding were discon- ment for the Arts, I say vote for this should be defeated. tinued, it would have a devastating effect on rule, vote for freedom, vote for the Mrs. KELLY. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in their future and the Queens community. children, vote for the parents, and vote strong opposition to this rule. This rule can Mr. Speaker, it would be a tragic mistake to against elite control of art in America. work to ruin the livelihoods of numerous splen- destroy the National Endowment for the Arts. GENERAL LEAVE did artists in my district; halt the regeneration The positive influences it has had on our Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I ask of the city of Peekskill, village of Cold Spring schools and communities are numerous and unanimous consent that all Members and several other struggling communities; and far-reaching. I urge my colleagues to vote have 5 five legislative days in which to to deny many of my constituents theater, against this unfair rule and save the future of revise and extend their remarks on dance, opera, painting, and other artistic medi- the National Endowments for the Arts. House Resolution 181. ums. Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Speaker, I rise in oppo- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there This shortsighted decision to severely crip- sition to the rule, and to express my dis- objection to the request of the gen- ple our Nation's preservation of culture will appointment that the whole House will not tleman from New York? haunt us in the near future. All of us like to have the opportunity to decide the fate of the There was no objection. think of the United States of America as a civ- National Endowment for the Arts [NEA]. Mr. GEPHARDT. Mr. Speaker, I rise today ilized country, but how civilized is a country The arguments in favor of limited funding for to express my strong opposition to this rule that abandons their commitment to the arts. the NEA are hollow and without merit. that would set the terms of the debate for the How civilized is a country that does not Government support for the arts is not a fiscal year 1998 Interior appropriations bill. I prioritized art and culture as the inevitable program for the elite. must oppose this rule because it is a gag measurement of our society? When we look Eliminating the endowment will do almost ruleÐit denies those of us in the House who for signs of early and ancient man, where do nothing to reduce the deficit. support continued funding for the National En- we find it? In the arts that ancient cultures left The private sector cannot and will not pro- dowment for the Arts the opportunity to make behind. vide sufficient funding to make up this loss. H5060 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Let me tell you the many reasons that most we have been making in our children and our States, strongly opposes block grants to Americans believe in government support for communitiesÐparticularly without an up-or- States. the arts: down vote by this democratic Congress. Under a block grant system, there would be The arts stimulate economic growth. For As a majoritarian body, the House has an great difficulty in creating a fair formula for al- every dollar the NEA invests in communities, obligation to ensure that members of Con- locating arts funding among the States. In ad- there is a 20-fold return in jobs services, and gress have the opportunity to determine the dition, NEA grants that go to one district often contracts. future of the NEA by voting on it, rather than benefit numerous other communities and The arts invest in our communities. The arts being blocked by a procedural issue. The NEA States. This is particularly true in the case of develop in our citizens a sense of community, has played an essential role in our society for exhibits or performance groups that travel to and contribute to the livability for families in over 30 years. It is simply unfair to make any various locations. Block grants would eliminate that community. decision affecting its continuationÐand in turn the incentive that currently exists under our The arts are basic to a thorough education. affecting the millions of citizens who benefit system of direct Federal funding to give Student achievement and test scores in aca- from NEA-funded programsÐwithout the ben- money to fund arts programs with interstate demic subjects can improve when the arts are efit of a vote by the entire House of Rep- benefits. used to assist learning in mathematics, social resentatives. The full House of Representatives deserves studies, creative writing, and communication This is not a parochial issue. All Members of the opportunity to vote on the NEA, not on skills. this House recently received a letter from block grants which are unacceptable to the I invite anyone who thinks the NEA is not Americans United to Save the Arts and Hu- State arts agencies, to our constituents, and to needed to visit the Puppet Company Play- manities, an organization of business leaders, most Members of Congress. house in Glen Echo Park, just a few miles expressing their strong support for the NEA. For these reasons, I urge my colleagues to from the Capitol. The CEO of the Xerox Corp., the chairman defeat the rule on the Interior appropriations It's a 200 seat theater created out of a por- and CEO of Sun America, Inc., the chairman bill. tion of an historic ballroom at Glen Echo Park. and CEO of the Sara Lee Corp., and over 100 Ms. ESHOO. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in The audience is usually made up of children other business leaders endorsed continued opposition to the rule for the Interior appropria- accompanied by their families and teachers, Federal funding for the NEA as well as the tions bill because it doesn't waive points of representing the cultural and economic diver- National Endowment for the Humanities order on funding for the National Endowment sity of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of [NEH]. As their letter explained, ``The NEA for the Arts. Columbia. An NEA grant allows the Puppet and the NEH have each been valuable com- Unless this rule is defeated, the House will Co. to keep the ticket prices low so that many ponents in creating a healthy business cli- never have a straight up or down vote on young families can attend the performances. mate. We value employees with a solid edu- funding for this vitally important agencyÐa The associates who run the company work cation in the arts and humanities. * * * Expo- vote that NEA supporters would clearly win. hard for modest salaries in the true spirit of sure to an arts education produces workers A majority of the House is ready to offer the keeping their company nonprofit. with such skills as analysis, synthesis, evalua- American people a full chorus of beautiful art, I think most taxpayers would be pleased to tion and critical judgementÐkey elements to but opponents want them to settle for some- know that they support such a worthwhile success in today's competitive global econ- one singing solo in the shower. project. omy.'' The letter went on to say, ``We recog- I support the NEA because it's a solid finan- Mr. Speaker, our legislative agenda could nize the tight constraints of the Federal budg- cial investment, helping to generate $3.4 bil- have far-reaching implications for the cultural et. However, it is evident that there is a clear lion in Federal income taxes. vitality of our Nation. Therefore, I cannot sup- parallel between the Federal investment in cul- I support the NEA because it's a solid edu- port this rule. ture and the willingness of corporations, foun- cational investment, lifting America to new lev- Art is how we remember. It is important, dations and individuals to support cultural ac- els of cultural endeavors and bettering our na- even vital, that we support and encourage the tivity.'' Business leaders know how important tion immeasurably. promotion of the arts so that the rich and cul- the NEA's contribution to the arts is to the And I support the NEA because it's a solid tural story of our past can be made available success of our Nation in the global economy. investment in America's cultural heritage, to future generations. The Rules Committee's failure to protect the bringing art to communities throughout the Ms. SLAUGHTER. Mr. Speaker, I regret that NEA against points of order is simply a ruse United States. I will not be present for this important debate, to prevent a majority of House Members from Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to sup- due to a death in my family. However, I exercising their will on this issue. Arguments port the arts and the NEA by voting to defeat strongly oppose this rule because it fails to that the NEA should not be funded because it the rule before us. waive points of order on the section of the bill is unauthorized are disingenuous. As we all Mr. ENGEL. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to op- that provides funding for the National Endow- know, a lack of authorization never prevents pose the rule and support the National Endow- ment for the Arts. Waiving points of order on this body from appropriating funds for any pro- ment for the Arts. The NEA is a great invest- this section would protect the Appropriations gram, unless opponents of that funding need ment for the American people and, quite frank- Committee's work, and allow the issue of Fed- a handy excuse. In fact, a Congressional ly, I think that our time would be better spent eral funding for the arts to reach the House Budget Office report from January 1997 debating an issue other than a program which floor. states, ``The CBO is unaware of any case in costs each American a grand total of 38 cents Numerous Members from both sides of the which appropriations have not been provided a year. aisle testified yesterday before the Rules for a program solely because its authorization I would like to specifically highlight one of Committee in favor of allowing a straight up or has expired.'' In fiscal year 1997, this House these propaganda newsletters that came to down vote on the National Endowment for the passed appropriations for 121 programs which my office denouncing the NEA as ``offensive'' Arts [NEA] on the House floor. But instead, were unauthorized. Obviously, authorization is and ``elitist''. Imagine my surprise when I saw the Rules Committee decided to deny the not an absolute requirement, but one that the that one of these objectionable grants was Members of this body an opportunity to vote majority applies selectively. Dances for Wave Hill a program which is held on this issue, which affects millions of people The Ehlers/Hunter amendment to retain in my district. across the country. funding for the arts in the form of State block Most of the Members of this body may not Our Federal investment in the NEA is an in- grants is an unacceptable substitute. Federal be familiar with Wave Hill but the residents of vestment in our children's educational devel- leadership and funding play the essential role the Bronx are proud of this facility which en- opment and in our Nation's economic growth. in the effort to make arts available in every compasses 28 acres of gardens and wood- The $99.5 million we invest in the NEA yields community to every citizen. The State arts lands overlooking the Hudson River. Dances a return of $3.4 billion to the Federal Treasury. agencies rely upon Federal leadership and di- for Wave Hill is a series of outdoor perform- I know of no other investment we make that rect funding of national initiatives to attract pri- ances produced by Dancing in the Streets, a yields so great a return. vate, corporate, and foundation support to the group specifically founded with the intention of Studies have shown that investments in arts arts, especially from funders who can be en- introducing dance to new audiences. education yields other dividends as well. For couraged to provide matching support on a re- You might wonder what is so objectionable example, we now know that playing the piano gional or national basis. The National Assem- about the program. Strangely enough, some helps students better learn math and science. bly of State Arts Agencies [NASAA], which groups are angry that there is no subway stop It is ``penny wise and pound foolish'' for us to represents the State and special jurisdictional in the garden so they have labeled Dances for sacrifice the investment in arts education that government arts agencies of the United Wave Hill as an elitist program. July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5061 It is time we took a good look at the cam- the countryside, it has never been a mass au- the increase in quality of life that they provide, paign of misinformation which has been aimed dience, even among the Romans and Greeks. and the public support for the Endowments, it at the NEA. The funding for the NEA is money But the few have usually preserved the gifts is obvious that we must continue to fund the of culture for the many. Those few, who may well spent and I urge all of my colleagues to be more numerous than some politicians be- arts. Each year, more people attend perform- defeat the rule. lieve, can distill and pass on the essence of ing arts events than all professional sports Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, as the our national cultural treasures. events combined. The study of the arts and House considers legislation which does not If we want to avoid the errors of the past humanities helps students think critically and allow a fair and open debate, and vote, on the and benefit from its achievement, let us fol- creatively, while working across traditional dis- National Endowment for the Arts, I urge my low the path that all great civilizations trav- ciplinesÐskills that workers need to progress colleagues to consider the words of Elliott eled. Let our government continue its small, into the twenty-first century. Also, the Endow- Levitas, writer, attorney, former member of the but essential, role in providing the seed to ments preserve America's heritage by funding Georgia House of Representatives and former ensure that our diverse American cultures will continue to find greatness and will be libraries, museums, folk festivals, theaters, United States Congressman representing the there for future generations as they enrich arts centers, and dance studios which draw Fourth Congressional District of Georgia: our lives today. families and businesses to participate in the CULTURAL WAR RAGES IN AMERICA—ALL Let us follow the Greeks and not the cultural life of their communities. Ultimately, GREAT CIVILIZATIONS OF THE PAST HAVE Visigoths. the NEA economically brings diverse people PROVIDED PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR THE ARTS Mr. CUMMINGS. Mr. Speaker, I rise today together and builds bridges of understanding. (By Elliott Levitas) in opposition to the rule and to advocate on I urge you to join me in creating a more pro- Proposals in Congress to abolish the rel- behalf of full funding for the National Endow- ductive America by supporting the National atively minuscule public funding for the ment for the Arts (NEA). Endowments. Vote no on the rule; support the arts, humanities and noncommercial public Mr. Chairman, the arts are the heart of our NEA. Thank you and I yield back the balance TV and radio lie at the heart of a cultural Nation and the NEA is the heart of the arts. war raging in America. of my time. In the face of charges of elitism, budget Today, there are those who would rip out the Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I yield deficits and controversial subject matter, heart of the artistic community. back the balance of my time, and I the real issue is whether there is a vital role Current funding for the The National Endow- move the previous question on the res- for government to seed and supplement the ment for the Arts is certainly a modest effort. olution. private sector in promoting, preserving and It accounts for less than 1/1000 of 1% of our The previous question was ordered. transmitting American culture. Federal budget. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Every great civilization has provided pub- The impact of this small program is immeas- lic support for its arts and culture. Whether question is on the resolution. it was Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman, urable. Today, more Americans have access The question was taken; and the Spanish, French, British or whatever, these to the arts than ever before. Speaker pro tempore announced that towering forebears of our culture all pro- Each year, the Arts Endowment opens the the noes appeared to have it. vided essential support for their artists, door to the arts for millions of school children, Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I object writers, thinkers, architects and dramatists, including many at-risk youth. to the vote on the ground that a in addition to funds made available through The few isolated cases of controversial art quorum is not present and make the private sponsorship by patrons. work are not an accurate representation of the point of order that a quorum is not The great art traditions of China, Japan, thousands of grants the NEA gives out each India and the ancient civilizations of Central present. and South America, all derived support and year. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evi- encouragement from the governments. Must we burn the entire orchard if there are dently a quorum is not present. Societies which did not provide this insti- a few apples that are not to our liking? The Sergeant at Arms will notify ab- tutionalized support did not attain the Join me to help lend a voice to the painters sent Members. heights of great artistic creativity, nor pass and the sculptors, the singers and the musi- The vote was taken by electronic de- it on. We look at the Visigoths, the Huns, cians and the actorsÐthe artists of this coun- the Tartars and other societies long forgot- vice, and there were—yeas 217, nays try. 216, not voting 2, as follows: ten because they did not do so. Esteemed colleagues, I urge you to join me Do we believe our American cultures, [Roll No. 259] in opposing this rule. which enrich the spiritual life of our people, YEAS—217 should be cultivated? If so, history teaches Mrs. TAUSCHER. Mr. Speaker, I rise today us that there is an essential role for govern- in opposition to this rule, and in opposition to Aderholt Collins Goodling Archer Combest Goss ment, albeit small. Whom do we wish to H.R. 2107 without the changes necessary to Armey Condit Graham emulate, the Visigoths or the Greeks? bring it into accordance with the Budget Bachus Cooksey Granger The suggestion that budget deficits can be agreement worked out between the White Baker Cox Greenwood fought by eliminating cultural funding is a House and Congressional Republicans. I will Ballenger Crane Gutknecht blatant fraud on an anxious and credulous Barr Crapo Hall (TX) public. The total amount of budget support not support a measure that goes back on the Barrett (NE) Cubin Hansen for the National Endowment for the Arts is promises made to the American people to pro- Bartlett Cunningham Hastert tect our remaining open spaces through the Barton Davis (VA) Hastings (WA) less than .009 percent of governmental ex- Bass Deal Hayworth penditures. To eliminate that amount does Land and Water Conservation Fund or protect Bateman DeLay Hefley not even meet the test of ‘‘every little bit our limited assistance to the arts through the Bereuter Diaz-Balart Herger helps.’’ National Endowment. Bilbray Dickey Hill Should the arts share across-the-board As a proud member of the Blue Dog Coali- Bilirakis Doolittle Hilleary Bliley Dreier Hobson budget reductions? Yes. Eliminate the arts tion, I have focused on balancing the Federal funding? No. Blunt Duncan Hoekstra Indeed, if we apply the ‘‘cost-benefit’’ test, budget while protecting our national priorities, Boehlert Dunn Hostettler the small cost returns great benefit to cul- including the environment, the arts, and hu- Boehner Ehlers Hulshof Bonilla Ehrlich Hunter tural creativity. manities. As we have seen, many of our col- Bono Emerson Hutchinson No, this issue is not budget deficits, but leagues claim that we cannot justify continuing Brady English Hyde cultural war. Groups of modern-day ‘‘know- to fund the Endowments for social and fiscal Bryant Ensign Inglis nothings,’’ advocates of thought control and reasons. Yet it is specifically for these reasons Bunning Everett Istook would-be cultural dictators would just as Burr Ewing Jenkins soon see the richness of American culture that we must continue support. Despite a 40% Burton Fawell Johnson (CT) disappear with a new Dark Age. Their fear of cut in funding over the past two years, the Buyer Foley Johnson, Sam NEA continues to make a great investment in Callahan Fowler Jones cultural diversity and their demand for uni- Calvert Fox Kasich formity of mind is what the cultural war is the economic growth in every community in Camp Frelinghuysen Kim all about. America. The nonprofit arts industry alone Campbell Gallegly King (NY) Nor is elitism a serious argument. Govern- generates $37 billion annually in economic ac- Canady Ganske Kingston ment support for American culture not only tivity, supports over 1.3 million jobs and re- Cannon Gekas Klug Chabot Gibbons Knollenberg reflects Shakespeare, Beethoven and Pi- turns $3.4 billion to the Federal Government in casso, but also provides for Howard Fenster, Chambliss Gilchrest Kolbe folk music, cowboy poets, Native American income taxes. That is a huge return on a small Chenoweth Gillmor LaHood investment. Christensen Gilman Largent crafts and jazz. The issue of elitism is phony. Coble Gingrich Latham Even though in recent years the endow- When this economic gain of the arts and hu- Coburn Goodlatte LaTourette ments have vastly expanded the audiences in manities is added to the educational benefits, H5062 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Lewis (CA) Pickering Smith, Linda Skelton Tauscher Waters operation that I have had with the gen- Lewis (KY) Pitts Snowbarger Smith, Adam Thompson Watt (NC) tleman from Illinois [Mr. YATES] over Linder Pombo Solomon Snyder Thurman Waxman Livingston Porter Souder Spratt Tierney Wexler the years that we have served on this Lucas Portman Spence Stabenow Torres Weygand committee. He has been a partner, as I Manzullo Pryce (OH) Stearns Stark Towns Wise was to him in the years we have McCollum Radanovich Stenholm Stokes Turner Woolsey worked together, and he has been a McCrery Redmond Stump Strickland Velazquez Wynn McDade Regula Sununu Stupak Vento Yates great individual to work with, and, McHugh Riggs Talent Tanner Visclosky most importantly, to call my friend. McInnis Riley Tauzin NOT VOTING—2 And while occasionally we would have McIntosh Rogan Taylor (MS) a difference, in every instance what we McKeon Rogers Taylor (NC) Schiff Slaughter Metcalf Rohrabacher Thomas did reflected what we felt was in the Mica Ros-Lehtinen Thornberry b 1610 best interests of this Nation. Miller (FL) Royce Thune Mr. ABERCROMBIE and Mr. RA- This bill represents important ac- Molinari Ryun Tiahrt complishments on a lot of common ob- Moran (KS) Salmon Traficant HALL changed their vote from ‘‘yea’’ Myrick Sanford Upton to ‘‘nay.’’ jectives. Much of what is in here, the Nethercutt Scarborough Walsh Mr. McHUGH changed his vote from gentleman from Illinois [Mr. YATES] Neumann Schaefer, Dan Wamp and I have supported not only this year Ney Schaffer, Bob Watkins ‘‘nay’’ to ‘‘yea.’’ Northup Sensenbrenner Watts (OK) So the resolution was agreed to. but in years past, and I think on bal- Norwood Sessions Weldon (FL) The result of the vote was announced ance, over the years, we have developed Nussle Shadegg Weldon (PA) legislation that has been productive for Oxley Shaw Weller as above recorded. A motion to reconsider was laid on this Nation. Packard Shays White The bill totals $13.1 billion. It is a few Pappas Shimkus Whitfield the table. million dollars less than last year. But Parker Shuster Wicker The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Paul Skeen Wolf essentially it goes forward with the CAMP). Pursuant to House Resolution Paxon Smith (MI) Young (AK) programs that are important to the Pease Smith (NJ) Young (FL) 181 and rule XXIII, the Chair declares people and that is to enhance the qual- Peterson (PA) Smith (OR) the House in the Committee of the ity of life in these United States. The Petri Smith (TX) Whole House on the State of the Union bill provides significant funding for all for the consideration of the bill, H.R. NAYS—216 the agencies under our jurisdiction, but 2107. Abercrombie Forbes Matsui I think basically we have tried to ac- Ackerman Ford McCarthy (MO) b 1613 complish a couple of critical objec- Allen Frank (MA) McCarthy (NY) Andrews Franks (NJ) McDermott IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE tives. One is to meet a backlog in mainte- Baesler Frost McGovern Accordingly the House resolved itself Baldacci Furse McHale nance. We have had the Secretary of into the Committee of the Whole House Barcia Gejdenson McIntyre the Interior and Agriculture and the Barrett (WI) Gephardt McKinney on the State of the Union for the con- Becerra Gonzalez McNulty directors of the land management sideration of the bill (H.R. 2107) mak- agencies and many others, testify Bentsen Goode Meehan ing appropriations for the Department Berman Gordon Meek about the enormous backlog of prob- Berry Green Menendez of the Interior and related agencies for lems that need to be addressed in our Bishop Gutierrez Millender- the fiscal year ending September 30, parks, in our forests, in our fish and Blagojevich Hall (OH) McDonald 1998, and for other purposes, with Mr. Blumenauer Hamilton Miller (CA) wildlife facilities, in the Bureau of Bonior Harman Minge LATOURETTE in the chair. Land Management. Borski Hastings (FL) Mink The Clerk read the title of the bill. Here we see a chart that outlines the Boswell Hefner Moakley The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the Boucher Hilliard Mollohan enormous maintenance needs. I think Boyd Hinchey Moran (VA) rule, the bill is considered as having it is very important that we make Brown (CA) Hinojosa Morella been read the first time. every effort to address that in legisla- Brown (FL) Holden Murtha tion, and we have done so, and we have Brown (OH) Hooley Nadler b 1615 done this as a team effort, both with Capps Horn Neal The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Cardin Houghton Oberstar myself and the gentleman from Illinois from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] and the gen- Carson Hoyer Obey [Mr. YATES]. This includes things like Castle Jackson (IL) Olver tleman from Illinois [Mr. YATES] each the Smithsonian, $250 million that Clay Jackson-Lee Ortiz will control 30 minutes. needs to be spent there for mainte- Clayton (TX) Owens The Chair recognizes the gentleman Clement Jefferson Pallone nance; the Fish and Wildlife Service, Clyburn John Pascrell from Ohio [Mr. REGULA]. $536 million, and my colleagues can see Conyers Johnson (WI) Pastor Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield all the different agencies. But we have Cook Johnson, E. B. Payne myself such time as I may consume. Costello Kanjorski Pelosi done it in a fiscally sound and an envi- Coyne Kaptur Peterson (MN) Mr. Chairman, we have had a spirited ronmentally responsible way. Much of Cramer Kelly Pickett debate on the rule. I think for those this maintenance is important to the Cummings Kennedy (MA) Pomeroy that are watching from the gallery it protection of the environment in this Danner Kennedy (RI) Poshard has to be quite evident, and those that Davis (FL) Kennelly Price (NC) Nation. Davis (IL) Kildee Quinn are watching on C–SPAN, that this is a For example, in the Everglades we DeFazio Kilpatrick Rahall democracy, that each person who is a have fully funded the administration’s DeGette Kind (WI) Ramstad Member here representing 600,000 peo- Delahunt Kleczka Rangel request for the restoration of the Ever- DeLauro Klink Reyes ple has an opportunity to be heard and glades. This is something that is im- Dellums Kucinich Rivers present a point of view. But, after we portant to all people, and certainly it Deutsch LaFalce Rodriguez have had these discussions, we go for- Dicks Lampson Roemer is a team effort because the State of Dingell Lantos Rothman ward. Florida is making a very strenuous ef- Dixon Lazio Roukema I hope that as we take this bill for- fort. They have financially the help in Doggett Leach Roybal-Allard ward that each Member will look at it bringing the Everglades back to what Dooley Levin Rush on its merits, determine as we deal Doyle Lewis (GA) Sabo they have been in the past, to be a very Edwards Lipinski Sanchez with the amendments what is in the important part of our Nation’s eco- Engel LoBiondo Sanders best interests of the 260 million people system, a very important part of our Eshoo Lofgren Sandlin we represent. Nation’s environment. Etheridge Lowey Sawyer Evans Luther Saxton This truly is a quality-of-life bill be- We have continued and enhanced the Farr Maloney (CT) Schumer cause much of what we do in this bill recreation fee demonstration for the Fattah Maloney (NY) Scott touches the lives of Americans, and I land management agencies. This start- Fazio Manton Serrano want to say at the outset I hope that in ed 2 years ago. Prior to that time, fees Filner Markey Sherman Flake Martinez Sisisky our dealing with this legislation that it that were collected in the Park Serv- Foglietta Mascara Skaggs will have the same great spirit of co- ice, the forests, the Fish and Wildlife July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5063 Service, went to the Treasury and con- the beauties of the national forests is recreation user, the people of this Na- sequently there was no incentive to do that they are available for the multiple tion, a good experience, before we do so. Last year, with the support of this use, and if my colleagues go to a place something that will inhibit people’s body, we gave authority to the various like Angeles National Forest, right on ability to use this land, which belongs agencies to collect fees, but the impor- the edge of this city, they will realize to all 260 million Americans. tant difference was they got to keep how important this is. And this is true Much of the roads budget is for main- them, and this has been a very success- all across the country; Allegheny Na- tenance. We want to ensure that these ful program. tional Forest in Pennsylvania and roads are safe, and things like guard- We have had support not only from many others that are available for peo- rails are just one example. We recog- the agencies, but the public. They like ple to use. nize that there is a greater interest in the idea that if they pay a few dollars Now we are going to have an amend- maintaining the forest for recreation to enter a park, that the money is ment to cut the Forest Service road purposes. Ten years ago, in fact, less going to stay there and not be sent to program. We will talk more about that than that, in 1990, in this bill, we pro- the U.S. Treasury. at the time, but let me say to Members vided for over 11 billion board feet of The program is working out very that are listening or watching this, do timber harvest. The bill today is a lit- well. This year we have added a new not be too quick to commit on that. I tle over 3 billion board feet. We have change, and that is that fees that were think there are some very compelling had a reduction of 66 percent, from 11 under the old program, collected prior reasons to not vote for this cutting to 3.8 billion, because we are trying to to the inception of the new program, amendment because it goes to our abil- balance the timber program and other still went to the Treasury. We changed ity to rebuild and maintain existing multipurpose uses of these lands. that. So now a hundred percent of what roads. It is a very important environ- I would also point out, because of the is collected at the agencies like the mental use of these funds. We have practices, and they started under the parks and forests and so on will be kept been very careful in the way that we leadership of the gentleman from Illi- in that service. Eighty percent will have allocated resources to the Forest nois [Mr. YATES] of maintaining forest stay right where it is collected, and I Service, and the dollars that are there health, that we are growing each year think this will help a great deal. For are important for particularly the in the national forest 17 billion board example, in the national parks it is es- recreation user. Something like 77 per- feet. So we have a net gain of 14 billion. timated that in 3 years it will amount cent of the roads are used for recre- We are growing 14 billion more board to $400 million. ation. And when individuals and fami- feet than we are cutting. I think that is Now we have encouraged the agencies lies go out on these roads, we need to good management. That is what we in the language of the bill to use this ensure that they are safe, that they are have tried to do. money to address some of the mainte- comfortable, that they can get access Mr. Chairman, I want to talk a little nance problems that I have outlined to the facilities. There are 18,000 dif- bit about energy, because right now en- here. ferent recreational facilities in the na- ergy prices are relatively low. I was in We began last year an emphasis on tional forest, and people need access to Europe not long ago, and when we see forest health because that is impor- those facilities. prices there of $4 or $5 a gallon, we tant; the suppression of disease, forest The bill provides for the construction really appreciate what it is in the Unit- fuel reduction, vegetation manage- of very limited new timber roads, less ed States to be able to pull up to a ment, wildlife habitat and watershed than 2 miles to be exact, not very pump and get gasoline for maybe $1.20 improvements. The testimony in our much. Ninety-five percent of the appro- a gallon. But we need to be diligent and committee was clearly in support of priated construction dollars for roads vigilant in continuing energy research the enhancement of the forest health go for safety, for environmental im- and in continuing to manage our en- program, a couple hundred million provements to existing roads and to ergy resources wisely. Energy, as I acres, a vast resource and asset of this close roads. mentioned in the debate on the rule, is Nation, and we have addressed that vital to a nation. Just think about it. b 1630 problem in many ways throughout this Clothing is just one example. A lot of it bill. We obliterate, wipe out, more roads comes out of a barrel of oil, but that is Fire management has been given pri- than would be built. We are trying to a small item. Think about how our in- ority. We see it on our televisions, the make the roads that are there usable dustries are impacted. forest fires, and of course to avoid this to the public for the many multipur- I remember some of the Members problem we have to manage the forests poses. were here in the late 1970’s when we carefully. I would point out that the forests had petroleum shortages, and how jobs We have required the Forest Service have tripled the visitor days of the were lost, how schools had to close to operate under a multiple-use man- Park Service, three times as much, be- down. We do not want that to happen date. That means forestlands are avail- cause people can participate on a wide again. Therefore, it is important that able for grazing, for mineral explo- variety of activities on forest lands. we manage our energy resources care- ration. The multiple-use mandate cov- The forests are a family recreation fa- fully. We fund the research. We do not ers, as I mentioned, grazing, mineral cility, so a steelworker in Johnstown, do this carelessly. Our energy research exploration. PA, can load up the family on his 2 programs require matching funds from It is an interesting thing that this weeks’ vacation, go to Allegheny Na- the private sector. If we are going to bill is $13 billion, but the activities tional Forest, know when he follows a have a technological development pro- that are funded in this bill generate $9 road that the bridge is going to be safe, gram, we want the private sector to billion in receipts. So we only have a that the road is going to be safe, that contribute their fair share, because net cost of $4 billion, and those are re- his camper is not going to go over the that means that they believe in what sources that belong to all the people side of the hill and that he is going to we are doing. that are being developed in the mineral enjoy that experience, as 87 million As a result of this research, we are exploration, offshore oil, many dif- other Americans are doing each year. getting new energy sources. I think, ferent sources that are part of produc- Mr. Chairman, I hope Members will looking down the road, this becomes ing $9 billion for the Treasury of the look at this amendment with caution very important for this Nation. For us United States and for the people. and carefully consider these points. to have the kind of growth that will I visited the Angeles National Forest We have over 121,000 miles of hiking get that deficit down to zero, we have just outside of Los Angeles, and to see trails in the national forests. Money in to have available a lot of energy. That families out there, who are in part of a the roads budget also maintains those means that we need to continue the city of something like 20 million peo- trails so people are safe, so people can R&D in our programs. ple, have an opportunity to recreate enjoy them. Again, I would urge all We have an enormous supply of coal. outdoors. The kids can see a deer, can Members to look carefully before they I know there will be some who oppose see other forms of wildlife, perhaps take away this ability to carefully and we have rescinded, in this bill, $100 drop a line in the creek and fish. One of manage our forests, to provide the million of clean coal money, but we H5064 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 also keep what is required to fulfill our tor, will be far more efficient than the up the administration’s requests plus contractual obligations to those who ones we use today in our utility indus- the requests from our friends in the mi- have committed to participate on a 50– try. That means we can burn the coal nority, we have funded more of those 50 matching basis, or even a greater in a clean way, and at the same time than we have on the majority side. private share. The average has been 60 have a high degree of efficiency. We valued projects on their merits private, 40 public to develop clean coal The programs leverage a lot of sup- and not as to the source of the request. technology. port from the private sector. What does it mean? It means that I want to mention a little bit about We wanted to make sure that we did this technology will be sold not only in the Bureau of Indian Affairs. I know what was fair and what was good for the United States but all around the this does not have a wide range of in- this Nation, what was good for the peo- world. We hear a lot about China these terest, but the Bureau of Indian Affairs ple; trails, for example, in the Con- days. China today is burning more coal is vitally important to the over 2 mil- tinental Divide out in the Western part than the United States, and we burn a lion American Indians. We have a re- of the country, and I could go on and lot in this country. The electricity sponsibility, a treaty responsibility on in pointing out some of the very that lights this Chamber is coming and a responsibility as a nation that constructive projects that have been from a pound of coal or a ton of coal, cares, to do what is right by the native funded in this bill that will, again, as I but in spite of the amount that we use, Americans. We increase the tribal pri- mentioned earlier, enhance the quality China is using more coal today than we ority allocation by $76 million over last of life of the people of this Nation. are. Therefore, as we develop the clean year. Why is that important? Because I hope all Members will take some coal technology we can sell this to this promotes and encourages local time to study the bill and understand China, because they are developing also control. We are trying to encourage the what we have tried to achieve. We have Indian tribes to become self-sufficient, an environmental movement. tried to achieve better management, Likewise I would point out that we to develop their own economy, to pro- we have tried to achieve things that have an interest in this, because if they vide ways in which they help them- will be good for this Nation that make do not develop and use this kind of selves in education, in jobs, and be- a lot of sense in terms of expending technology, those emissions are going come part of the American dream. So taxpayer dollars. into the atmosphere and will have an we say to the tribes who manage their impact on all of us. own affairs, we are going to give you For the record I would like to note two tech- I think what we are trying to do in more money to make your own priority nical corrections to the report as follows: on this bill, to encourage research in al- judgments as to what is important to page 67 and page 74 of the committee re- ternate fuels, and the use of coal in a the people that you represent. portÐHouse Report 105±163, insert the word clean burning way, and the Depart- We have had the debate on the NEA. ``International'' before ``Arid Lands Consor- ment of Energy tells us that by 2010 we I do not think we need to talk anymore tium'' and on page 37 of the committee re- will have technologies that will allow about that. I would just say to all portÐHouse Report 105±163, the committee us to burn coal that emits 10 times less Members, this is a good bill. We have bill funding level in the table for ``cultural pro- sulfur and nitrogen than is allowed been very fair in what we have done on grams'' should be $18,699,000 and the lan- under the current law, that is twice as projects. We had 2,000 requests from all guage on page 38 of the report for ``Cultural efficient as conventional power plants, of the Members, from literally, I sup- programs'' should say ``The Committee has and emits less than half as much car- pose, almost every Member, 2,000 dif- provided an additional $135,000 for uncontrol- bon dioxide. ferent items that were requested by lable expenses.'' For example, this bill provides for re- our colleagues to be put in the bill. We search into low emission boilers. What have done a lot of these. We have done Mr. Chairman, I include for the does that mean? It means that the boil- as many as we could. We have done RECORD a table detailing the various ers that will be developed, and this is them on a totally nonpartisan basis. I accounts. all in partnership with the private sec- did not count, but I suspect if we added The table referred to is as follows: July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5065 H5066 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5067 H5068 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5069 Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance done a lot of very good and positive committed environmentalist. He has of my time. work on this legislation. said that the amendment that will be Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield One of the issues that will come up offered by Mr. KENNEDY and the gen- myself such time as I may consume. today is the question of forest roads. tleman from Illinois, [Mr. PORTER] goes (Mr. DICKS asked and was given per- This is a very controversial issue. Last too far. It will cut into the reconstruc- mission to revise and extend his re- year we had a major debate on this tion of roads. It will cause environ- marks.) issue on the floor of the House of Rep- mental damage, and it will require 400 Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I rise resentatives. I want to tell my col- to 500 people in the Forest Service to today to substitute, I was always a sub- leagues, I feel that I did not do as good be laid off. It is a meat-ax approach to stitute, it seems like, for the gen- a job on this issue last year as I needed dealing with this problem. tleman from Illinois [Mr. YATES], and to. We won, we prevailed, but I do not Then, of course, we have some small to talk a little bit about this Interior think I explained it as well as I should amount of roads that are built with ap- appropriations bill. have explained it. I worked up a little propriated funds, 165 miles of recon- Mr. Chairman, I certainly want ev- chart here and I would like my col- struction. This is going out and fixing eryone here to know that I have en- leagues to see it. It is a small chart. I up those roads again, and only 8 miles joyed the 21 years that I have had an think they will understand what it is. with appropriated funds are used for opportunity to work with the gen- This program here lays out the For- new construction. And, in fact, down tleman from Ohio, [Mr. RALPH REG- est Road Program that we have for the here at the bottom, we have the oblit- ULA], who is the new chairman on this country. Of that, of the money that is eration of roads; 1,500 miles of roads in committee and has served for many being spent this year on the Forest those Forest Service lands are being years, and worked under the gentleman Road Program, there will be 2,000 miles taken out, the ones that are no longer from Illinois, [Mr. SID YATES] when he of road reconstruction. This is going necessary, and they are being taken was chairman. We have a very good bi- out and fixing up existing roads so they out and replaced. To my friends and colleagues who partisan committee that tries to work do not cause environmental problems, think that we are doing too much in together on these important natural so that they do not cave in, so there is terms of timber harvesting, let me resource issues. not siltation. They have to replace the show them what is happening in this Obviously, many on our side today culverts. They have to fix these roads. country in terms of harvesting of tim- are quite unhappy about the fact that Then, there are only 480 miles, this is ber off the Federal timberlands. This is we did not or will not get an oppor- under purchase or credit, only 480 miles the miles of roads. This is the histori- tunity to have an up-or-down vote on of new roads being built, and most of cal Federal Road Program. And we the National Endowment for the Arts, those roads are short roads into areas used to do, here was 8,870 miles. That but we had a vote on the rule. We lost where there has already been timber by one vote. Now we are going to con- was in 1985. Then we went down to 6,545 harvesting. miles. Here it is, in 1995, we are down sider this bill. b I also believe that there is a lot of 1645 to 2,868 miles. We are down to 2,652 good that comes out of this bill. The I will bet no one in this place knows miles, of which only 18 percent are new Interior appropriations bill provides this number, 90 percent of the roads, 90 construction. What has happened on timber sales in funding for the National Park Service. percent of what is happening on the this country, we used to do 10 billion It does provide funding and has in the roads is for recreational purposes. Peo- board feet off the Federal timberlands. past for the National Endowment for ple go in and this is the access point to This year the administration budget the Arts and Humanities, for the For- go into our wilderness areas, to go into request is for 3.7 billion board feet. est Service, for the Bureau of Indian our lakes, to go into our camping That is over the entire country. If the Affairs, for the Bureau of Mines, for areas. It is recreation. And these roads Kennedy–Porter amendment is adopt- many of the energy conservation pro- are very, very important for that pur- ed, that will be reduced down to 1.7 bil- pose. grams and alternative energy programs lion board feet. of the Department of Energy. So this is Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the What does that mean? That means a very positive piece of legislation. gentleman yield? what we have done in essence is create It also provides funding, as I men- Mr. DICKS. I yield to the gentleman a shortage, a shortage of timber, a tioned, for the Indian tribes in this from Ohio. shortage of lumber. What that means is country. We do have a trust respon- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I think when people go out to build a house or sibility to those tribes. It is a serious it is appropriate at this time, I want to build an apartment, the cost of that responsibility. We also fund the Fish read a statement from Secretary goes up. That is why the home builders and Wildlife Service. Glickman; the Forest Service is in his have been urging the Congress to at Of course, we have had debates on jurisdiction. It fits in with what the least do the 3.7 billion in the Clinton this floor over the Endangered Species gentleman is saying. administration budget, but not to cut Act. I would say to my colleagues here, A letter from the Secretary to me it back to 1.7, which is the effect of this there is probably not a congressional today says: amendment. district in America that has been more However, the $41.5 million reduction the So this is a very major issue. I hope affected by the Endangered Species Act amendment proposes goes too far in elimi- Members will be not stampeded. I know than the Sixth District in the State of nating important construction and recon- that the environmental community is Washington. I have seen the harvest on struction efforts that provide public safety making this their No. 1 priority. But and environmental benefits. our forests there go down by about 95 please listen to the members on the percent, maybe 98 percent, because of Mr. DICKS. Another point, Mr. committee who have had some experi- the requirements of protection for the Chairman, if we do not have roads, if ence, who know something about it, spotted owl and the marbled murrelet. we have got forest fires out there, we who know a little bit about this issue. The President’s forest plan is in place have got to be able to get the men and I want Members to know that we in the Northwest. We have received women who fight these forest fires into have cut back about as far as I think funding under this plan to try and do those woods. And the road program is we should cut back in terms of timber something about watershed restora- much less dense than it is on the BLM harvesting. As I said, in my forest at tion, watershed analysis, ecosystem lands, much less dense than it is on pri- the Olympic National Forest in the protection and management. All of vate lands. State of Washington, we have gone that comes out of the Interior appro- This is done very carefully. This is from 250 million board feet down to 10 priations bill. not being done by James Watt. This is million. This is all done by thinning I want Members to know that I think being done by the Clinton-Gore-Babbit- sales now. So we have taken a huge that we have an outstanding chairman Glickman administration. Jim Lyons, cut. But to kill the road program in my and an outstanding ranking member in former staff member here on the Com- judgment is a terrible mistake. the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. mittee on Agriculture, is in charge of Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, will the YATES], and an excellent staff that has the Forest Service program. He is a gentleman yield? H5070 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Mr. DICKS. I yield to the gentleman than for timber harvesting. There are Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the from California. all sorts of recreational activities that gentleman yield? Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, I want take place on these roads, and they Mr. DICKS. I yield to the gentleman to thank the gentleman for yielding to never get, those other uses rarely get from Ohio. me. charged for the cost of the road con- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, along He talked about the billions of board struction that is always attributed to with what the gentleman said, another feet that we are going to lose in terms timber harvesting. point is, here is a 2 by 4. Seven years of timber production. That means also I know in the forests in my district ago it was 22 cents a foot. Today it is hundreds of thousands of logging fami- and in northern Wisconsin and in the 44 cents a foot. What does that trans- lies who are going to have no where- upper peninsula of Michigan that we late into? Two thousand dollars to withal to pay their mortgages, send now have an above-cost operation; that $3,000 more for a frame house, and that their kids to college, and do all the is, the cost of the road is more than means that young people will have an other things that we like to do in amply paid back simply by the cost additional burden when they want to America as part of the American and the value of the timber harvesting. seek that first home, because the forest dream. This will be a devastating blow And there are all these recreational cut has been so reduced. This saw foot to a lot of working folks in this coun- benefits that follow upon the road pro- comes out, a lot of it, from our na- try. gram. tional forests. Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, the other Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, the gen- Mr. DICKS. That is why the home point is, we have to import about 30 tleman is absolutely correct. Ninety builders have made this one of their percent of our saw wood timber today percent of the utilization of these roads most important issues. They are very from Canada. And what that means is is for recreational purposes. I am sure concerned about what the gentleman, they are going out and harvesting like the gentleman knows in the forests of the chairman has pointed out. We have crazy up in Canada to supply the Amer- Minnesota the same thing that I know created this shortage. When we create ican market, because we are not har- in the Olympic Peninsula. This is a shortage, we drive up the price. And vesting at historic levels off of our Fed- where the people go to recreate, they so we are trying to do this fairly. We eral lands. go to the lake, they go to the wilder- are trying to do it on a sustainable I think, frankly, we had to make ness, they go camping, hiking, they go basis. We are trying to make sure that some reductions in timber harvesting. I hunting, fishing. They use this road the money is used for demolition and am not opposed to that. What I am op- system. This is not an evil, terrible for fixing up troubled roads. But with posed to is that we have it down now to thing. this amendment, we are going to take a level that I think is clearly sustain- What is evil, what is terrible, what is away a huge part of the money that is able, and we are going to have this environmentally dangerous is not to there to fix up troubled, environ- amendment today that will even take sustain those roads. What is misunder- mentally dangerous roads, and this is it down further, which is going to drive stood here today is that most of the just because I am afraid the people who up the price of lumber. And it is not money that is being taken out, most of are offering this amendment do not serve on this committee and do not well thought out. It cuts into road re- that money would be used for road re- talk to the Forest Service and do not construction money in the name of construction to fix up problem roads understand the complete implications cutting out money for new roads, and and make them safer so that they do of what they are doing. Their intent it just misrepresents the facts. not wind up blowing out and going into may be pure but what happens is not. I have never seen, in my entire ca- the stream, and replacing culverts so Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance reer, and I have seen a lot of distor- that salmon can get back up and repro- of my time. tions in my entire career up here, be- duce. That is a big part of the cut that Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield lieve me, but this one, what this is in this budget today. 4 minutes to the gentleman from Wash- Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, the amendment says it does and what it ac- ington [Mr. NETHERCUTT], a very dis- tually does, there is more distance be- gentleman has stated the case exceed- tinguished and productive member of tween this and anything I have seen. It ingly well. And I just say that those our subcommittee. is not right. I think a lot of Members who are advocating this amendment do Mr. NETHERCUTT. Mr. Chairman, I here have been misled, and if they ac- not have in mind the roads and their thank the gentleman for yielding me tually knew the facts they would be utility or their significance. They real- the time. voting against this amendment. ly want to get at the timber harvesting I certainly want to congratulate him Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, will program. I think we have a fair balance for a very hard effort, well-deserved ap- the gentleman yield? of sustainable yield management on plause in connection with this bill and Mr. DICKS. I yield to the gentleman the national forests of this country. We certainly to the gentleman from Illi- from Minnesota. ought not to cut it or gut it by means nois [Mr. YATES] and the gentleman Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, I of this amendment. from Washington [Mr. DICKS] who thank the gentleman for yielding to Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I would worked very hard on this bill as well. me. point out to the gentleman, out in re- And the staff. I think we too many He has just made a very lucid, factu- gion 6, used to be the No. 1 timber pro- times overlook how hardworking the ally substantiated statement, the best ducing area in the Nation, we have staff is to try to put this all together I have heard in years on this floor gone from about 41⁄2 billion board feet and get it to the floor and keep track about the issues involved in this ques- down to about less than 1 billion board of it all. tion of timber harvesting and the rela- feet, an 80 percent reduction, an 80 per- I am a member of this subcommittee, tionship with the road program. The cent reduction. Hundreds of mills have Mr. Chairman. I am delighted to be gentleman represents a great saw tim- gone out of business. part of it because it has been a pleasure ber area of the country. All we are saying is, can we not have to work on this bill. It protects our In my district, we have pulp wood a little balance here? Let us remember natural resources. Even though it is principally and we do not have the big that this program provides recreation funded below last year’s level, it keeps saw timber trees, but it is as important and opportunities that are different, our Nation on track to achieve a bal- a yield for our forests, for the pulp and and it is not just timber harvesting. I anced budget. So this was a difficult ef- paper industry and the particle board am asking my friends, many from fort trying to put the numbers to- industry, as the saw timber is for the across the country, look at the facts gether, even though they are below last lumber and homeowner and home here, look at what Secretary Glickman year’s, to meet the priorities of our Na- building sector of our economy. said. Do not just be swept up because tion and protect the environment but Something I think is very important you are being pressured by certain also protect our natural resources. to understand, we are talking about a groups. I just ask for a fair evaluation So we were able to increase a number sustainable yield, a renewable resource of the facts. Give us that. Look at it of programs in this bill that needed in- in forestry. We are also talking about and hopefully we will have the right crease. I want to call particular atten- roads that are used for other purposes vote. tion to a few of the highlights of the July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5071 bill as they affect my region of the Pa- going to hurt the small operator. It opinion, and in the opinion of the rank- cific Northwest. will not hurt the big operator. It will ing minority member. Weatherization The National Park Service is an im- hurt the small operator. And that will assistance is an example. I wish we portant agency to many Americans. It do damage to the forest health and the could do more in the way of weather- is going to receive a $78 million in- multiple use concept in our national ization assistance because we decrease crease in funding, making it the third forest. it by over $30 million. straight year that this committee has Remember that about 80 million visi- The automobile fuel cell research, I increased park operations. tors go into the national forests and think, has a great deal of potential, The chairman also included a provi- use the forest roads that are currently which may not be realized because we sion that allows parks and refuges and in place. And we are obliterating forest are cutting back on that almost en- forests which participate in the rec- roads by a ratio of 4 to 1. Four times as tirely. That has potential for meeting reational fee demonstration program many are obliterated as those that are the clean air standards. to keep 100 percent of the fees, not to built. But most importantly we are going send them back here to Washington So Members should be very careful to focus on the NEA and it needs to be but to keep them in the location in about this bill and look very carefully focused on. It should be restored to its which they will do the most good. This at this amendment because it is a red existing level of $99 million. is going to benefit Lake Roosevelt Na- herring and we should not be persuaded The value of the logging subsidy to tional Recreation Area in my district. by it. private timber companies is over $250 It is a new fee demonstration partici- Mr. YATES. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 million a year. The taxpayer foots this pant. We are going to keep a lot of minutes to the gentleman from Vir- bill to build roads in forest areas 87 those fees and use them to improve ginia [Mr. MORAN]. percent of which would otherwise be really the commercial activities and Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Chair- uneconomical. They’ve built 378,000 the maintenance activities that are man, as a member of the Subcommit- miles of road. Fifty percent more road necessary within the park itself. tee on Interior of the Committee on than in nonforest service lands roads We are going to also achieve a tre- Appropriations, I want to express my that cause landslides, erosion and silta- mendous backlog maintenance problem appreciation to the hard work and tion of our streams. The National En- in our parks, and that program will as- leadership of its chairman, the gen- dowment for the Arts deserves to be sist in that regard. tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], and funded. Private timber companies The native American programs in also to the very distinguished ranking don’t. this bill are increased. The tribal prior- member. Serving on this subcommit- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield ity allocation which was mentioned by tee, one gains an even greater apprecia- 3 minutes to the gentleman from Utah the chairman is increased by $76 mil- tion for the great loss that this body [Mr. HANSEN], a distinguished member lion. This funding goes directly to the will experience when the gentleman of the Committee on Resources. tribes, directly affects my district in from Illinois [Mr. YATES] retires. So I (Mr. HANSEN asked and was given the Pacific Northwest and it bypasses thank him for his leadership. permission to revise and extend his re- the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and I I also want to recognize the profes- marks.) think that is a good approach. sionalism of the staff on this bill. Mr. HANSEN. Mr. Chairman, it is in- I am concerned that this bill does not Debbie Weatherley, Loretta Beaumont, teresting now that we have come into meet the President’s request in the Chris Topik, Joel Kaplan and Angie this interesting bill, which the gen- area of Indian health because Indian Perry. Barbara Wainman, the chair- tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] has health care’s inflation is well above the man’s personal assistant, Curt Dodd, done some super work on, and a lot of normal inflationary rate, and for too and of course Del Davis, who has to as- people, the gentleman from Illinois long the native American population sume a Herculean load, given the fact [Mr. YATES], have worked very hard on has been a low priority for the adminis- that the minority staff are so few in this particular piece of legislation. I tration and the Congress and their number with so many responsibilities. think it is interesting that most of us health needs. I hope the other body will Mr. Chairman, as the chairman has who campaigned on the idea that we do increase this funding level. said, this is clearly one of the most im- not want any tax increases, we are What I want to say, too, most impor- portant subcommittees in the entire against tax increases, if anything we tantly, following up on the debate that Congress. We have some very con- are going to balance the budget this we have just had here and the discus- troversial issues, though, and we are time, yet we seem to come up with an sion regarding our national forests and going to spend most of our time on amendment that is pending that is public lands, over the last 3 years we those controversial issues. But it called the Kennedy–Porter amendment have spent an unsustainable $2.3 billion should be expressed that there are which, in effect, is going to raise taxes fighting fires on our national forest some very fine things in this bill. For indirectly on every American. lands. example, $136 million increase for the How is it going to do that? Well, one thing, those of us who come from the b Everglades; a $78 million increase for 1700 the national parks; $42 million more West, I hope people realize that last That is unacceptable, but that is due, for operating the Fish and Wildlife year there were more fires in our pub- in my judgment, to the fact that we Service. lic lands across America than any time have diseased forests and we have There are a great many needs within in history, and that cost over $1.2 bil- unmanaged forests. That is unaccept- those organizations. I will not take the lion to fight them. able. Should be to all Americans. time to go into them, but we are ad- I am a member of the Committee on As a result of this, we have seriously dressing those needs. There is a $16 National Security and we have re- addressed in this bill the issue of im- million increase for natural resource quests from the Forest Service, BLM, proving forest health. Disease suppres- science research by the U.S. Geological and every firefighter: Give us some of sion, forest fuel reduction, vegetation Service. These things go unmentioned those old airplanes; we want to convert management, watershed improve- because we focus exclusively on the them to tankers because we have to go ments, research, and reforestation are controversial issues. in and fight those fires. all increased. This is a good environ- Thirty-one million in program in- So they are going to save $41,000, ac- mental bill. creases go to native Americans. Very cording to this amendment. At the With regard to the timber road issue much deserved. The Indian Health same time we are going to spend bil- that is coming up, I urge my colleagues Service will bring more Indian health lions and billions of dollars and we are do not be persuaded by some outside care to communities. In fact, we are going to decimate the West. There goes group that is going to score this bill on providing modular dental units on res- those beautiful forests. The folks from an environmental basis and be pushed ervations where dental services are the East who fly over them and say, into making the wrong judgment. sorely lacking. look at that green carpet, it is gor- Study the facts. This timber road re- But, of course, there are some defi- geous, it is beautiful, I love it. And yet duction provision that is coming up is ciencies in this bill, at least in my when we want to go in and kill the pine H5072 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 beetle, which is taking them out, no, tragic commentary on our priorities backlogged maintenance, this is a clas- here comes these same environmental that we are here today debating the sic example of how we have neglected groups saying, oh no, you cannot do elimination of the National Endow- to maintain an extremely valuable re- that, and they put injunctions on it. ment for the Arts, an agency that source of this Nation. Now, the professional foresters came spends less than 40 cents per American Mr. FOGLIETTA. Mr. Chairman, re- in before the committee I chaired for a each year. One of the standards by claiming my time, Independence Park few years and they say, if we do not which we judge a civilized society is has been known to have been under- kill the pine beetle by taking that sec- the support it provides for the arts. In going a significant utilities restoration tion out, they will kill every tree in comparison to other industrialized na- project. Several years back I walked here. And if they kill every tree, that tions, the United States falls woefully through the halls of Congress with a beautiful green forest becomes tooth- behind in this area, even with a fully corroded pipe because the sprinkler picks. And then they say and we will funded NEA. system in Independence Hall was com- have a sure bet that we will have a fire. But let us be honest, my colleagues. pletely inoperable. A fire could have And then they say we will have a sure This is not a fight over money. The Re- destroyed that national treasure in 20 bet we will have a flood. And then they publican leadership wants to eliminate minutes. say it will take Mother Nature 200 the NEA because they are concerned The chairman then, the gentleman years to bring it back to the way it about artistic expression in a free soci- from Illinois [Mr. YATES], and the cor- was. ety. This battle is not about defending responding chairman in the other body So why did we not just go in there the values of mainstream America, this came to my rescue and provided the when we had the opportunity and take is about pandering to Pat Robertson money for emergency assistance. I ap- care of that infestation of pine beetles? and the Christian Coalition. The Re- preciated that and I appreciate the sub- Now, because we could not go in there publican assault on the arts, on cul- committee’s provision of $4.3 million and do that, we now have what we call tural expression itself, is an outrage on the project to preserve Independ- a fuel load. So now we have a fuel load and it must be defeated. ence Hall and the other historic build- in America heavier than we have ever Polls overwhelmingly show that the ings surrounding it. This is generous, had. Why do we have the fuel load? Be- American public supports Federal fund- and I thank the chairman, but I am cause we cannot go in, we do not have ing for the arts because students, art- concerned because the administration the roads, and we cannot thin the for- ists, teachers, musicians, orchestras, had requested $6.3 million for this ests. We cannot take down all these theaters, dance companies across the project. I understand these funds are down fuels. country benefit from the NEA. For absolutely required to implement the So what do we have? We have fires. many Americans, whether they live in park’s master plan for the next cen- And we can count on it. The best peo- the suburbs, our cities, or our rural tury. ple in America are saying that we will areas, the NEA is critical in making This country has existed for two cen- have more fires in America this year the arts affordable and accessible. turies because of what happened in this than we have ever had. So we are going If those reasons are not compelling to spend billions of dollars fighting the park and Independence Hall. I am hop- enough for some, let us just talk dol- fires when we could have the roads that ing that we can work together in con- lars and cents. Because for every $1 the the people could go in. ference on this funding so that this What about these young people that NEA spends, it generates more than 11 project can proceed on schedule. want to build homes? The gentleman times that in private donations and Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, if the from Ohio talked about the increase. I economic activity. That is a huge eco- gentleman will continue to yield, I un- remember in 1967 when I built a home nomic return on the Government’s in- derstand the gentleman’s concerns and for me and my wife and my family that vestment, and we certainly do not need I share them. Let me assure him that I thought was wonderful, and I looked to be from New York to see the impact the committee strongly supports this at the 2 by 4’s and they were 83 cents of the arts on a region’s economy. construction work. apiece. I bought some 2 by 4’s the other Instead of debating this issue on the As the gentleman knows, this com- day and they were $4 apiece. Now, merits, the NEA opponents delight in mittee has provided more than $40 mil- there goes the cost up. telling sensational stories about lion over the past several years to take Keep in mind what we will do with objectional projects. Let us be very care of the critical maintenance needs this amendment from PORTER and KEN- clear on the facts. Out of more than of Independence Hall. 112,000 NEA funded grants over the past NEDY. First, we are going to raise the b 1715 taxes of Americans rather substan- 32 years, only 45 were controversial. tially; second, all the people who use That is less than 0.04 percent of all Mr. REGULA. Unfortunately, the the roads will not be able to use them, grants. Parks Service has a backlog. As I men- and 90 percent of it is used for recre- Moreover, under the very able leader- tioned earlier, the Senate allocation is ation and, third, we will burn the West. ship of Jane Alexander, the NEA has higher than the House number. Were So let it burn, my colleagues, and restructured the grant process to en- the Senate to fund this project, and if vote for this amendment they have sure the mistakes of the past cannot be other high priority needs for construc- here; do not let it burn and vote repeated. I urge my colleagues to de- tion are met, then I would certainly against the amendment. feat the Ehlers-Hunter amendment and give a lot of consideration to support- Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 preserve the NEA. ing increased funding for this project. minutes to the gentlewoman from New Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 It is a very important piece of work, York [Mrs. LOWEY], a member of the minutes to the gentleman from Penn- and I am very strongly in favor of tak- committee. sylvania [Mr. FOGLIETTA]. ing care of it. This is one of our Na- Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, I, too, Mr. FOGLIETTA. Mr. Chairman, I tion’s great cherished monuments. would like to express my great respect rise to request a colloquy with the gen- Mr. FOGLIETTA. Mr. Chairman, if for our chairman, the gentleman from tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] regard- the gentleman would yield, it is also Ohio, [Mr. REGULA] and our outstand- ing the status of ongoing restoration the heart of my district. ing leader, the gentleman from Illinois work at the Independence National Mr. REGULA. It is across the street, [Mr. YATES]. And although he fought Historical Park in Philadelphia. as I understand it. vigorously to defeat the rule, which Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 would have given us an opportunity to gentleman yield? minutes to the gentlewoman from Cali- support the National Endowment for Mr. FOGLIETTA. I yield to the gen- fornia [Ms. PELOSI], a member of the the Arts, we lost, and I would like to tleman from Ohio. committee. direct my remarks to the Ehlers-Hun- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I am Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Chairman, I thank ter amendment regarding the National pleased to address the gentleman from the gentleman for yielding. Endowment for the Arts. Pennsylvania’s concerns about this im- Mr. Chairman, I rise in great respect Mr. Chairman, in a nation of such portant work. And I might add also for the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REG- wealth and cultural diversity, it is a that if the gentleman saw the chart of ULA], the distinguished chairman of the July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5073 subcommittee. I appreciate his fine but at current levels. On the other Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield the work in bringing this legislation to the hand, I lament what is happening to remaining time to the gentleman from floor. And I join my colleagues in ex- the National Endowment for the Arts. Illinois [Mr. YATES], the distinguished pressing great esteem for our col- What is most troubling about this, in ranking minority member. league, the gentleman from Illinois my judgment, is that we here in the Mr. YATES. Mr. Chairman, I thank [Mr. YATES], for the great tradition Congress have taken on the role of art the gentleman for yielding me the that he has brought to this Congress of critics who can make judgments about time. support for the arts and support for what is good or what is bad art, and the Mr. Chairman, I want to pay my trib- preserving our national and natural electorate has not asked us to do that. ute to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. heritage as well. It is indeed an honor I am also extremely bothered by the REGULA]. He and I worked on this bill for every one of us who serves in this large, devastating cuts to the Wilson for many, many years. He knows it body to call him ‘‘colleague.’’ Center down the street. The Wilson thoroughly. And, for the most part, I So it is with regret that I rise to op- Center has done distinguished work. It think that this bill reflects good judg- pose an amendment that will come up would be extremely short-sighted if we ment on his part. later, the Ehlers amendment, and hope were to destroy this very excellent re- In view of the fact that the bill and it will not be part of this legislation at search center. the rule have killed NEA, I will not the end of the day. Mr. Chairman, my first contact with support the bill. In many respects it is As I am fond of saying in this Cham- Congress came more than a decade ago a good bill. It provides additional funds ber, there are so many fig leaves when I testified on behalf of the arts for building our parks, our natural re- around here that it is beginning to and the humanities, and I gave my tes- sources, but it devastates almost look like the Garden of Eden. Today’s timony to the committee directed by equally important cultural programs. fig leaf is the Ehlers amendment, the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. I mentioned what it had done to the which is supposed to give cover to YATES], who is now my colleague. National Endowment for the Arts. And those who voted to eliminate the Na- The gentleman from Illinois [Mr. although it gives its approval to appro- tional Endowment for the Arts, but YATES] has given years of distinguished priations for the National Endowment alas, it is a transparent fig leaf. service in supporting our national cul- for the Humanities, it kills the Wood- It is interesting to me that, in the tural institutions, and I want to say row Wilson Center, which I think has course of the Committee on Rules de- that I am so honored to be working at done good work over the years, and it bate and debate on the floor, our Re- his side. suspends work on the Museum for the publican colleagues said that we had to Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield American Indian. We have been waiting eliminate the $99 million in funding for 1 minute to my colleague, the gentle- year after year after year for a mu- the NEA because we need to reduce the woman from Ohio [Ms. PRYCE], a very seum to pay tribute to the great people deficit. Now, hiding behind the trans- distinguished member of the Commit- who first inhabited this country. parent fig leaf, the Republicans say tee on Rules. So, Mr. Chairman, again I pay my that we can vote for $80 million Ms. PRYCE of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I tribute to the gentleman from Ohio through the Ehlers amendment. It is thank my good friend, the gentleman ]Mr. REGULA]. I look forward to work- clear that this is not about reducing from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], for yielding ing with the Senate to add some im- the deficit, it is about content restric- me the time, and I rise in opposition to provements to the bill, particularly in tion; it is about conformity instead of the Porter-Kennedy amendment. the cultural aspects of it; and I hope creativity. This amendment eliminates funding that the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. The gentleman from Texas [Mr. allocated to the forest road program. REGULA] will work with me in that re- ARMEY], the distinguished majority But this program builds, improves, and spect. leader, when he spoke earlier, said that maintains forest roads. Those who sup- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I will the Ehlers amendment would put more port the amendment argue that the use my last minute to announce what I Crayolas in our children’s hands. Yes, forest road program provides a subsidy. have been advised, and that is that the and that is just about it. The Ehlers I respectfully disagree. leadership advises that they would like amendment would amount to about $1 I would like to take this opportunity to work to between 10 and 12 tonight. per child for the arts. to commend to my colleagues this The objective would be to finish by 2 Do we not want more for America’s piece of literature prepared by Price p.m. tomorrow, and I think we can eas- children? I am certain the gentleman Waterhouse that says ‘‘the forest roads ily do that if we work until that time from Texas [Mr. ARMEY] wants more program does not contain a subsidy for tonight. for his new grandson, who was born timber purchasers and provides an effi- We will probably roll votes until yesterday. I am pleased to welcome cient and effective mechanism for fi- about 7 p.m., and then after we have him to the grandparent’s club, the best nancing road construction and recon- done that group, we will roll again for club there is. Let us hope that our struction.’’ a couple hours. So this, I think, will grandchildren can express themselves These roads are an important tool give the Members an idea of what the freely. In order for that to happen, we used to manage the resources in our rest of the evening will be like as far as should reject the Ehlers amendment national forests. Just last August, a schedule and what we could anticipate and bring back the NEA. staffer of mine spent 14 days fighting for tomorrow. I urge my colleagues to oppose the wildfires in Oregon. It was the forest Mr. Chairman, I just close by saying Ehlers amendment. roads that provided him and other fire- this is a good bill. I hope all of our col- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman fighters with their sole access over leagues will look at it carefully as we from Washington [Mr. DICKS] has 21⁄2 land to the safety of their fire camp 6 go through the various amendments minutes remaining. The gentleman miles away. Without such roads, access and then on final passage. from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] has 2 minutes over land would have been next to im- Mr. ENSIGN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support remaining. possible, causing a great loss of both of the Sanders amendment to H.R. 2107. This Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 time and energy. amendment would increase funding for the minutes to the gentleman from Califor- But it is not just access for our wildland fire- payments in lieu of taxes [PILT] by $19 mil- nia [Mr. CAPPS]. fighters that is important, these roads also pro- lion. These payments are absolutely vital to Mr. CAPPS. Mr. Chairman, I agree vide access for our resource managers and our counties that have a decreased tax base with my colleagues that there are foresters, hunters, fishermen, and those who due to federally owned land located within the many positive features in this bill. But just want to take a walk in the woods. county boundaries. I am particularly sensitive to its cul- I urge Members to look past the political These payments help defray the costs of tural institutional components, and rhetoric that many groups would have them law enforcement, fire prevention, search and here the bill deserves a mixed review. believe. If you support promoting forest health rescue and infrastructure needs in those coun- I am pleased that funding for the Na- and sound environmental stewardship, I urge ties that must provide these essential services, tional Endowment for the Humanities you to support the forest roads program and yet do not have the revenue stream normally is being sustained, not in abundance, defeat the amendment. provided by private property tax collection. H5074 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Coming from a State where 87 percent of Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposi- that this Price Waterhouse analysis was the the land is federally owned, you can imagine tion to the Interior appropriations bill in its cur- result of a timber industry funded study, frank- how strapped our rural counties are when it rent form. It shortchanges the Land and Water ly the results don't seem surprising. I'm comes to providing these essential public Conservation Fund [LWCF]. It shuts down the underwhelmed by such industry produced fod- services. The PILT Program was established National Endowment for the Arts. And it is der. Beware of a special interest financed to address the fact that the Federal Govern- packed with irresponsible government sub- study that supports the special interest access ment does not pay taxes on its own land. Un- sidies such as the timber roads credit and to the Federal taxpayer pocketbook. We fortunately, PILT payments have never ap- special breaks for clean coal technology. should end this fiscally and environmentally proximated the revenue the local governments Thankfully, we have some opportunities today unsound program today by voting for the Por- would otherwise generate through private to fix some of these problems and send the ter-Kennedy amendment. property taxes. President legislation he can sign. Like just about all of the legislation we con- I appreciate the gentleman from Vermont of- My colleague from California [Mr. MILLER] sider in this House, this is a true question of fering this amendment and I urge my col- plans upon offering an important amendment priorities. I believe and I have long believed leagues to support it. that will restore the commitments the leader- that we can effectively manage our National Ms. CHRISTIAN-GREEN. Mr. Chairman, I ship made to the President on funding for the Parks and Forests, that we can preserve fund- rise today to express my strong disappoint- Land and Water Conservation Fund [LWCF]. ing for the arts and humanities and that we ment in the fact that the majority members of This amendment will provide for two critically can deal fairly with members of Native Amer- the Appropriations Committee refused to in- important land exchanges: the New World ican Tribes while we at the same time spend clude, in the bill we are discussing today, the Mine in Montana and Headwaters Forest in money responsibly and eliminate programs $700 million that was included in the biparti- California. Some of my colleagues oppose and unwarranted subsidies that have failed san, 5-year balanced budget agreement for these purchases, and I respect but disagree their goal or that enrich special interests. We Federal land acquisition. with their views. But that is not the point. The should use this Interior appropriation legisla- Over $300 million of the $700 million was point is that this provision was part of the tion to achieve such goal. Indeed, there are slated to go to the Land and Water Conserva- budget deal that this Congress agreed to with those that wish to preserve the subsidy pro- tion Fund [LWCF], the Federal trust fund, es- the President. There are a lot of aspects of gram for logging roads, there are those who tablished to purchase private lands for outdoor this budget agreement with which I'm not in wish to preserve the so-called Clean Coal recreation or for preservation for future gen- agreement with, but I, along with more than Technology Program, and there are those who erations. 300 of my colleagues, supported the budget want the Federal Government to extinguish Last month, when we learned that this agreement when it passed on this floor. As the commitment to the arts. I disagree, these money might not be included in the bill, I joined 22 of my colleagues on the Resources Members supported the budget deal the Con- actions run counter to sound policy and are Committee in sending a letter to Chairman gress/Clinton compromise, it is only reason- not supported by the American public. able to uphold the key provisions of the same. I have always viewed the Interior appropria- REGULA to remind him that the LWCF is cur- tions bill as an opportunity for Congress to rently owed about $11 billion which has accu- Specifically the commitment to increase the both protect the environment and save tax- mulated because money meant for the fund LWCF by some $700 million, that is the Miller payer dollarsÐwhat has become recognized has been directed for other uses, like bal- amendment that will be offered in good faith as the Green Scissors approachÐand this ancing the Federal budget. and in accord with the budget agreement. This misdirection of LWCF funds has cre- Similarly, the bill in its current form shuts year is no different. We should pass the Miller ated a tremendous backlog of purchases of down the National Endowment of the Arts. A amendment, preserve our commitment to the threatened land designed to protect the public number of our colleagues insist on making in- arts, pass the Porter-Kennedy amendment, health and the environment. flammatory, and I'm sad to say inaccurate, and pass the Klug-Miller-Foley amendment. I was overjoyed, Mr. Chairman, when I statements about the NEA and its priorities. Then we'll send the President a bill that he heard that the balanced budget agreement The fact remains that most of the money we can sign and show the American people that had provided an additional $700 million for spend on the arts goes to providing cultural sometimes, when given the opportunity, Con- Federal land acquisitions. experiences for children in communities gress is capable of real change and can do This additional funding would have meant across the Nation who would not otherwise our decisionmaking task fairly, efficiently, and the possibility that funding could finally be re- enjoy such opportunity or experiences. The above all competently. alized to begin acquiring land at the Salt River President, furthermore, has indicated that he Mr. UNDERWOOD. I know that today's de- National Park and Historical Preserve, on the will veto this bill if Congress does not restore bate on the fiscal year 1998 Interior Appropria- island of St. Croix in my district, the Virgin Is- funding for the NEA. tions will largely focus on funding for the arts lands. Instead of more endless, partisan bickering, and humanities, but I would like to take a mo- Salt River National Park was authorized in this House should continue funding the NEA ment to highlight several provisions included in 1992, creating an approximately 1,000 acre at previous levels. This would have been a the bill which I am very pleased to support. park offering a unique combination of bio- compromise. While I and a number of my col- As you may know, citizens of the freely as- logically significant flora and fauna. Salt River leagues would like to strengthen our commit- sociated states of the Federated States of Mi- is also best known as the only documented ment to the arts, I recognize that this is cur- cronesia, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, site where Christopher Columbus landed in rently not likely. So I am willing to face reality and the Republic of Palau, can freely migrate what is now the United States. and move forward with the legislative program to Guam under the provisions of the Compact Tragically, since its authorization, there has for our Nation. I would have hoped that those of Free Association between the United States not been any Federal land acquisitions at Salt who disagree would at some point be willing and these nations. Appropriations to reimburse River. This is a concern because a major hotel to do the same. Guam for the impact of the Compact are au- development had been proposed for the In addition to these important amendments, thorized under Public Law 99±239. In the Om- mouth of the Salt River Bay, including the we will debate an amendment to eliminate the nibus Appropriations Act of fiscal year 1997 area of the Columbus landing site. special subsidy program for timber roads in [P.L. 104±134], 6 years of partial reimburse- While the development permits for this our National Forests. I am not sure how many ment for Guam was included for the social project have been denied by the courts, the of my colleagues are aware of the fact that and educational costs of this migration. I am current owner of the property believes that an this bill includes $40 million so that the Fed- pleased that H.R. 2107 again includes $4.58 opportunity still exists to sell the property and eral Government can reimburse timber compa- million as partial reimbursement to Guam. I re-initiate the hotel project. It is essential, in nies for their road construction costs, road would like to thank Chairman REGULA and order to preserve this magnificent area, for graded so that the same entities can harvest Ranking Member YATES for their leadership on LWCF funds to be appropriated for the Park the timber. That is $40 million less of tax dol- this issue and for working to fulfill this impor- Service to acquire key private tracts of land at lars that we can spend on educating our kids, tant Federal obligation. Salt River. cleaning up the environment, providing heat H.R. 2107 also includes an additional $1 I urge my colleagues to continue to insist assistance for the elderly, and any number of million for brown tree snake eradication re- that the previously allocated $700 million be other worthy and important activities serving search as requested by the administration. made available to address the threats faced at our communities. This funding is vital for the efforts to control Salt River, as well as, for the other hundreds You will hear many claims that, according to this non-indigenous species which has deci- of priority Federal land acquisition and local Price Waterhouse, these millions of dollars do mated Guam's indigenous bird species and is recreation projects across the country. not amount to a subsidy. Please bear in mind the cause of countless power outages July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5075 throughout the island. I thank Chairman Reg- The Clerk read as follows: Nation’s history. More than 90 million ula and his staff for their willingness to take a H.R. 2107 Americans trace their roots to Ellis Is- serious look at this problem and understand Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Rep- land, and 11⁄2 million visitors from the ongoing and potential impact of this un- resentatives of the United States of America in around the world tour the island every controlled non-indigenous species. Congress assembled, That the following sums year. I am also pleased that technical assistance are appropriated, out of any money in the Unfortunately, some parts of the is- to the territories has been increased by $1 mil- Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for the land are not receiving the attention lion to approach a more adequate level and fiscal year ending September 30, 1998, and for they deserve, and last month the Na- has remained separate and distinct from fund- other purposes, namely: tional Trust for Historic Preservation ing to control the brown tree snake. I look for- TITLE I—DEPARTMENT OF THE included the south side of Ellis Island INTERIOR ward to continuing to work with my colleagues on its annual list of the 11 most endan- and the other body to see that all of these im- BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT gered historic places in the United portant provisions remain intact. MANAGEMENT OF LANDS AND RESOURCES States. Mr. DAN SCHAEFER of Colorado. Mr. For expenses necessary for protection, use, The south side of Ellis Island consists Chairman, I rise to note a matter which is of improvement, development, disposal, cadas- of more than two dozen buildings that great concern to myself and the members of tral surveying, classification, acquisition of served as hospital wards during the the Commerce Committee on both sides of easements and other interests in lands, and performance of other functions, including first part of this century. These build- the aisle. H.R. 2017, contains language which maintenance of facilities, as authorized by ings have great historical significance. would allow the sale of approximately 10 mil- law, in the management of lands and their In fact, the cure for pink eye was dis- lion barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum resources under the jurisdiction of the Bu- covered there. Reserve. reau of Land Management, including the Due to years of weather-related dam- The legislative language in H.R. 2017 general administration of the Bureau, and age, however, the hospital complex is changes existing law regarding the drawdown assessment of mineral potential of public seriously decayed. Roofs are caved in, of the SPR, and violates House Rule 21 which lands pursuant to Public Law 96–487 (16 walls are crumbling, and in some build- prohibits legislating in an appropriations bill. U.S.C. 3150(a)), $581,591,000, to remain avail- able until expended, of which $2,043,000 shall ings stalactites of lime hang from the Yesterday, we asked the Rules Committee to be available for assessment of the mineral ceiling. These buildings are literally issue a rule which did not waive points of potential of public lands in Alaska pursuant falling apart, and allowing them to order against this language. Unfortunately, be- to section 1010 of Public Law 96–487 (16 U.S.C. decay beyond repair would be a na- cause of some miscommunications, the rule 3150); and of which $3,000,000 shall be derived tional disgrace. waived the point of order and an objection from the special receipt account established I am very pleased that the gentleman was made to the unanimous-consent request by the Land and Water Conservation Act of from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] has included to modify the rule. 1965, as amended (16 U.S.C. 460l–6a(i)); and of report language in the bill at my re- Thus, Mr. Chairman, I am disappointed that which $1,500,000 shall be available in fiscal year 1998 subject to a match by at least an quest that directs the Park Service to the point of order which would lie against this equal amount by the National Fish and Wild- come up with an immediate plan to provision was waived. However, I have spo- life Foundation, to such Foundation for chal- stabilize these buildings. I also want to ken with Mr. REGULA and Mr. SOLOMON about lenge cost share projects supporting fish and reiterate my hope that, working with this and I understand they will work with me wildlife conservation affecting Bureau lands; the Senate, we may be able to find a to see that this language is removed at con- in addition, $27,300,000 for Mining Law Ad- small amount of money in the bill to ference. ministration program operations, to remain begin basic emergency repairs in the Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield available until expended, to be reduced by future. back the balance of my time. amounts collected by the Bureau and cred- ited to this appropriation from annual min- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the The CHAIRMAN. All time for general gentlewoman yield? debate has expired. ing claim fees so as to result in a final appro- priation estimated at not more than Mrs. LOWEY. I yield to the gen- Pursuant to the rule, the bill shall be $581,591,000; and in addition, not to exceed tleman from Ohio. considered for amendment under the 5- $5,000,000, to remain available until ex- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I thank minute rule. pended, from annual mining claim fees; the gentlewoman from New York [Mrs. Amendments printed in House Report which shall be credited to this account for LOWEY] for her interest and efforts. 105–174 may be offered only by a Mem- the costs of administering the mining claim Ellis Island truly is a national treasure ber designated in the report and only fee program, and $2,000,000 from communica- tion site rental fees established by the Bu- that has desperate needs for construc- at the appropriate point in the reading tion repairs. of the bill, are debatable for the time reau for the cost of administering commu- nication site activities: Provided, That ap- Unfortunately, the Park Service con- specified, equally divided and con- propriations herein made shall not be avail- struction budget is severely con- trolled by the proponent and an oppo- able for the destruction of healthy, strained by its overwhelming backlog nent, are not subject to an amendment, unadopted, wild horses and burros in the of critical maintenance projects, $570 and are not subject to a demand for di- care of the Bureau or its contractors. million, as our chart showed, which vision of the question. WILDLAND FIRE MANAGEMENT consists of serious public health and During consideration of the bill for For necessary expenses for fire use and safety issues. amendment, the Chair may accord pri- management, fire preparedness, suppression Should the Senate provide funds for ority in recognition to a Member offer- operations, and emergency rehabilitation by the project, and if the other priority ing an amendment that he has printed the Department of the Interior, $280,103,000, construction needs are met, I will give to remain available until expended, of which in the designated place in the CONGRES- serious consideration to supporting the SIONAL RECORD. Those amendments not to exceed $5,025,000 shall be for the ren- ovation or construction of fire facilities: Pro- project. It is a good project and de- will be considered read. serves support. I look forward to work- The Chairman of the Committee of vided, That such funds are also available for repayment of advances to other appropria- ing with the gentlewoman from New the Whole may postpone until a time tion accounts from which funds were pre- York [Mrs. LOWEY] to ensure the during further consideration in the viously transferred for such purposes: Pro- project’s successful completion. Committee of the Whole a request for a vided further, That persons hired pursuant to Mrs. LOWEY. I thank the gentleman. recorded vote on any amendment, and 43 U.S.C. 1469 may be furnished subsistence We really owe it to the memory of our may reduce to not less than 5 minutes and lodging without cost from funds avail- able from this appropriation. ancestors and for the benefit of future the time for voting by electronic de- generations to preserve these build- vice on any postponed question that Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, I move ings. I am very appreciative of the immediately follows another vote by to strike the last word. chairman’s support for getting us on Mr. Chairman, I rise for the purpose electronic device without intervening the path to do just that. business, provided that the time for of a colloquy with my friend, the gen- voting by electronic device on the first tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA]. b in any series of questions shall not be As the gateway for more than 12 mil- 1730 less than 15 minutes. lion immigrants between 1892 and 1954, The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. The Clerk will read. Ellis Island holds a unique place in our The Clerk read as follows: H5076 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 CENTRAL HAZARDOUS MATERIALS FUND have been designated as grantees. A tional Park Service has a $5.6 billion For necessary expenses of the Department part of my confusion is how these construction and repair backlog, $575 of the Interior and any of its component of- grants could have been approved by the million of which deals with the critical fices and bureaus for the remedial action, in- DOE, the Department of Energy, if the maintenance needs regarding public cluding associated activities, of hazardous funding for these grants were depend- health and safety issues. waste substances, pollutants, or contami- ent on future appropriations. I also am Mr. CARDIN. I understand the pres- nants pursuant to the Comprehensive Envi- sures the committee is under this year ronmental Response, Compensation and Li- not clear whether the grant recipients ability Act, as amended (42 U.S.C. section can receive a portion of their grant and particularly that the Park Serv- 9601 et seq.), $12,000,000, to remain available even when the amount appropriated is ice’s fiscal year 1998 construction budg- until expended: Provided, That notwithstand- not enough to fund all the depart- et included two extremely high cost ing 31 U.S.C. 3302, sums recovered from or ment’s approved grants. projects, but the Fort McHenry project paid by a party in advance of or as reim- Mr. Chairman, I understand there is is also a priority and is in danger of bursement for remedial action or response some good research being conducted being cut off in the middle. The Senate activities conducted by the Department pur- within this program, including some allocation is more generous than the suant to section 107 or 113(f) of such Act, research in my home State of Michi- House numbers. Should the Senate pro- shall be credited to this account to be avail- vide funds for this project, can I ask able until expended without further appro- gan, but the gentleman can see there priation: Provided further, That such sums re- still appears to me a lot of confusion the gentleman to support the funding covered from or paid by any party are not surrounding the issue. I am asking the construction at Fort McHenry? limited to monetary payments and may in- gentleman today to work with me to Mr. REGULA. Fort McHenry is one of clude stocks, bonds or other personal or real clarify some of this confusion sur- this Nation’s great historic treasures. property, which may be retained, liquidated, rounding the funding level for the Were the Senate bill to fund this or otherwise disposed of by the Secretary automotive fuel cell program. project and if the other high priority and which shall be credited to this account. Mr. REGULA. I would be glad to needs for construction are met, then I Mr. KNOLLENBERG. Mr. Chairman, work with the gentleman from Michi- would give serious consideration to I move to strike the last word. gan to help clarify any confusion he or supporting the project. It is an impor- Mr. Chairman, I would like to take others may have regarding the auto- tant project and deserves funding. I this time to, if I could, participate in a motive fuel cell program. look forward to working closely with colloquy with the gentleman from Ohio Mr. KNOLLENBERG. I appreciate the gentleman from Maryland to en- [Mr. REGULA] if that would be in order. that from the gentleman, and I thank sure the successful completion of this Mr. Chairman, there seems to be a the gentleman for joining me in the construction in a timely and efficient lot of confusion surrounding, at least colloquy. manner. in my mind, the funding level for the Mr. CARDIN. Mr. Chairman, I move Mr. CARDIN. I thank the gentleman. Mr. RAHALL. Mr. Chairman, I move automotive fuel cell research and de- to strike the last word. to strike the last word. velopment program within the Energy Mr. Chairman, I rise to request a col- (Mr. RAHALL asked and was given Conservation Program. First, I want to loquy with the gentleman from Ohio permission to revise and extend his re- clarify the funding level for the ad- [Mr. REGULA] regarding the fate of on- vanced automotive technology pro- marks.) going restoration work at the Fort Mr. RAHALL. Mr. Chairman, I rise to gram. It is my understanding that the McHenry National Monument and His- engage the distinguished chairman of committee recommended more money toric Shrine in Baltimore. the subcommittee in a colloquy, but for the advanced automotive tech- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the before I do I want to commend the nology program this year than was ap- gentleman yield? chairman and the subcommittee for propriated in the years 1996 and 1997. Mr. CARDIN. I yield to the gen- placing a moratorium on the accept- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the tleman from Ohio. ance and processing of mining claim gentleman yield? Mr. REGULA. I am pleased to ad- patent applications made under the Mr. KNOLLENBERG. I yield to the dress the gentleman from Maryland’s Mining Law of 1872. By the continu- gentleman from Ohio. concerns about this important work. ation of this moratorium, I think the Mr. REGULA. The gentleman is cor- Mr. CARDIN. Mr. Chairman, I am subcommittee expresses the view of the rect. The comparable program was concerned that the bill does not pro- majority of the Members of this body, funded at $104,640,000 in fiscal year 1997 vide the $1.8 million needed by the if given the opportunity, they would and the committee recommendation Park Service for high priority con- vote for a comprehensive reform of the for fiscal year 1998 is $104,796,000. This struction work to complete the res- Mining Law of 1872. represents an increase of $156,000. It is toration of Fort McHenry. Last year While I do commend the Committee an increase of over $4 million above the Congress appropriated $800,000 for the on Appropriations for continuing this 1996 level. work on the fort. This was part of a $2.6 patent moratorium, I think it is impor- Mr. KNOLLENBERG. I thank the million project designed to preserve tant that we be up front in recognizing gentleman for that. Although the total the birthplace of our National Anthem. that this provision is only a Band-Aid amount for the advance automotive To date significant work has been un- that will not staunch the hemorrhag- technology program received an in- dertaken to repair and repoint the ing of the public’s mineral wealth creased recommendation from the com- fort’s main exterior brick walls, dating under the Mining Law of 1872. Radical mittee over the past 2 years, I have back to the War of 1812. Additional surgery is what is required. I hope that heard from the Department of Energy funding is needed to complete preserva- one day we will get around to doing that the fuel cell program has received tion of underground bombproof rooms, that. a significant reduction in funding, per- powder magazines and Civil War period Mr. Chairman, the committee bill haps as much as $10 million. defense works at the site. provides $4.5 million for grants to the Mr. REGULA. If the gentleman will I am concerned that the action of the eight heritage areas designated by the yield further, the department is not committee threatens the timely and ef- Omnibus Parks Act signed into law correct. It is true that the committee ficient completion of the necessary last year. Of this amount, three herit- has recommended a slight reduction work. Finding sources of historically age areas are to receive the maximum from last year’s appropriation to the compatible bricks and artisans skilled amount allowed under that law, $1 mil- fuel cell program due to the difficult at this restoration work has been dif- lion each, because the committee has choices we have had to make in trying ficult, but the project is now underway determined they are further advanced. to balance the budget. and we should complete it. That leaves $1.5 million for the remain- Mr. KNOLLENBERG. It is further my Mr. REGULA. I understand the gen- ing five heritage areas. understanding, Mr. Chairman, that the tleman’s concerns. Let me assure him Is it the committee’s intent for the Department of Energy approved grants that despite our decision not to include National Park Service to distribute within the fuel cell program and that construction funding for Fort this funding roughly evenly among these grants have had an impact on the McHenry, the committee strongly sup- those five heritage areas, with no area market value of the companies that ports this work. Unfortunately, the Na- receiving less than $200,000? July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5077 Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the my deep gratitude to the gentleman consideration and look forward to gentleman yield? from Ohio [Mr. REGULA]. We genuinely working with him for the success of Mr. RAHALL. I yield to the gen- appreciate his consideration of our this project, which means a great boon tleman from Ohio. comments regarding this subject, to our area in northern Rhode Island Mr. REGULA. That would be the in- which is of tremendous importance to and Massachusetts as well, which has tent of the committee. not only Rhode Island but Massachu- seen a great growth in jobs as a result Mr. RAHALL. I thank the distin- setts, where I am from. I appreciate it. of this wonderful model project in this guished gentleman from Ohio and com- Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. I country of what a heritage corridor can mend him for his work on this bill as want to thank both my colleagues from do for the economy of a given region. I well as the gentleman from Washing- Massachusetts. want to thank the chairman for his ton [Mr. DICKS], the ranking minority Mr. Chairman, I realize the difficult work on this. member. choices the chairman and the members The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. Mr. of the committee are faced with, but I The Clerk read as follows: Chairman, I move to strike the last want to discuss with the gentleman the CONSTRUCTION fact that this bill provides no construc- word. For construction of buildings, recreation I also want to thank the gentleman tion funds in fiscal year 1998 for the facilities, roads, trails, and appurtenant fa- from Ohio for engaging in this colloquy Blackstone Corridor. cilities, $3,254,000, to remain available until with me regarding the heritage areas, Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the expended. an initiative that I know he and the gentleman yield? PAYMENTS IN LIEU OF TAXES Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. I members of the committee have long For expenses necessary to implement the supported and supported very strongly. yield to the gentleman from Ohio. Act of October 20, 1976, as amended, (31 I would like to speak particularly of Mr. REGULA. I understand the gen- U.S.C. 6901–07), $113,500,000, of which not to the Blackstone River Valley National tleman’s concerns. I would point out exceed $400,000 shall be available for adminis- Heritage Corridor in my State of Rhode that the Blackstone River Valley Her- trative expenses: Provided, That no payment itage Project is one of the flagships of Island as well as the bordering State of shall be made to otherwise eligible units of our national program. It has set a local government if the computed amount of Massachusetts. This is one of the real standard. Let me assure the gentleman the payment is less than $100. examples of State partnership between that our decision had nothing to do AMENDMENT NO. 11 OFFERED BY MR. SANDERS Massachusetts and Rhode Island that with the committee’s support for the we have. I also want to commend the Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I offer Blackstone Corridor. The National gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. an amendment. Park Service has a $5.6 billion backlog The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- MCGOVERN] and the gentleman from of major priority construction projects; ignate the amendment. Massachusetts [Mr. NEAL] as well for $575 million of that deals with critical The text of the amendment is as fol- their long work on this issue. backlog maintenance, needs such as Mr. NEAL of Massachusetts. Mr. lows: failed water systems, broken sewer Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Amendment No. 11 offered by Mr. SANDERS: lines, deteriorating utilities, unsafe Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. I Page 5, line 4, after the dollar amount, in- dams and other major health and safe- sert the following: ‘‘(increased by yield to the gentleman from Massachu- ty projects. I might add, as I said in $19,000,000)’’. setts. the opening statement, we are very Page 59, line 10, after the dollar amount, Mr. NEAL of Massachusetts. I thank sensitive about the backlog mainte- insert the following: ‘‘(reduced by the gentleman from Rhode Island for nance problems. $47,500,000)’’. yielding. I want to thank the gen- Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. I ap- Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, this tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] for the preciate the gentleman’s position and I bipartisan amendment which is being manner over the years in which he has know the committee’s support for the introduced by the gentleman from New treated the Blackstone funding prior- Blackstone Valley River Heritage Cor- Hampshire [Mr. BASS] and myself does ities. It has been very encouraging and ridor. I know the chairman’s sensitiv- two important things that most Mem- he has been more than generous with ity to the notion of passing the bill last bers of this body agree with. his time as well as his support of this year as we did during the last Congress First, it deals with the very serious project. I know that since I represent and putting some of the construction problem of underfunded mandates, of the town of Blackstone that this really funds in place, but then it is sort of forcing citizens in close to 2,000 coun- commemorates a remarkable part of analogous to building a house but not ties in all 50 States to pay more in the manufacturing history of America. putting the furniture in it. We do not local property taxes than they should I am delighted with his pronouncement want to jeopardize this project by not be paying because the Federal Govern- today that he will support us on the following through on our commitment ment has fallen very far behind in its Senate side when this legislation goes to it as we did through the authoriza- payment in lieu of taxes on federally to conference. tion bill last year. owned lands. This amendment address- Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. I Should the Senate allocation in this es this problem by increasing payments thank the gentleman from Massachu- year’s bill be more generous than the in lieu of taxes by $19 million, from setts [Mr. NEAL]. This is a real example House number and should the Senate $113.5 million to $132.5 million. of us working together on a bi-State provide the funds for this project, can I Mr. Chairman, I should add here that issue, but one that pulls us all together ask the gentleman as chairman and the this amount is exactly the amount au- because of the nature of the heritage members of his committee to consider thorized for fiscal year 1995, when Con- corridor. supporting this project once again as gress passed the reauthorization for Mr. MCGOVERN. Mr. Chairman, will he has done in the past? PILT in 1994. In other words, this the gentleman yield? Mr. REGULA. I would advise the gen- amendment provides what the Congress Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. I tleman were the Senate to fund this promised cities and towns all over this yield to the gentleman from Massachu- project for fiscal year 1998 and if the country 3 years ago that we should be setts. other priority needs for construction doing. We made a commitment, we Mr. MCGOVERN. I want to thank the are met, I very much hope that we can should honor that commitment, and gentleman from Rhode Island for yield- provide the construction funding for that is what this amendment does. ing to me, and I want to associate my- the Blackstone Heritage Area. It is a Mr. Chairman, the PILT program was self with his remarks as well as the re- good project and it deserves strong sup- established to address the fact that the marks of the gentleman from Massa- port. I do look forward to working Federal Government does not pay taxes chusetts [Mr. NEAL]. The Blackstone closely with the gentleman from Rhode on its own land. River Valley National Heritage Cor- Island and the other two gentlemen b ridor is a crown jewel of the National that spoke to ensure the ongoing suc- 1745 Park Service and showcases our natu- cess of this project. These Federal lands can include na- ral resources while preserving the his- Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. We tional forests, national parks, fish and tory of that area. I want to also express certainly appreciate the chairman’s wildlife refuges, and land owned by the H5078 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Bureau of Land Management. Like Mr. Chairman, the bottom line is, had, we have to ensure that we can use property taxes, PILT payments are progressives and conservatives support fossil fuel in an energy-efficient way used to pay the school budgets, law en- this concept. I would urge Members and that we can use it in an environ- forcement, and other municipal ex- from both sides of the aisle to vote for mentally safe way. penses. Communities all over this it. What does that add up to? It adds up country are upset by the lack of fair- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I rise in to research which improves the tech- ness that they are receiving from the opposition to the amendment offered nologies, which develops new fossil fuel Federal Government, which is why this by the gentleman from Vermont. technologies which reduce emissions, amendment is endorsed by the Na- Mr. Chairman, I know the PILT Pro- which use energy more efficiently, and tional Association of Counties. gram is popular, but we have to make it creates jobs at the same time we ex- Mr. Chairman, despite an increase priority judgments. We have to decide plore the alternative energy sources. that was granted 3 years ago in the what best serves the interests of the We have done that in this bill, and I PILT authorization levels, the actual people of this Nation. think it would be a serious mistake in appropriations have been kept nearly What we have done in the fossil pro- terms of this Nation’s economy to take level, resulting in a revenue shortfall gram is look at it very carefully, and money out of this fossil research pro- to local communities in real terms. For we have reduced it over the past couple gram. It will cost $47.5 million from re- fiscal year 1997, for example, local gov- of years by 30 percent, and we want to search to provide $19 million more for ernments will receive only 60 to 70 per- avoid cutting any more. PILT. It would be nice to give these ad- cent of the payment level which was I think this term ‘‘corporate welfare’’ ditional credits to local counties. We set in the authorization. This amend- is used very carelessly, because we have done that while trying to stay ment would begin to address this un- have established a policy that we do within our allocation. But to cut our funded mandate by increasing the pay- not fund these energy research projects fossil energy research program would ment in lieu of taxes program to where unless the private sector puts in a sub- be very shortsighted in the long haul, it was in real terms 10 years ago. stantial share of funding. These are and for that reason I have to strenu- The formula by which payments in very important partnerships. ously object to this amendment. lieu of taxes are made is a complicated And I want to point out one other Mr. Chairman, I hope that the Mem- one, and each property is treated some- thing. We made a policy in the fossil bers will support us in defeating this what differently, but on average, on av- research program that once the tech- amendment. erage, if this amendment passes, each nology is developed, the Government is Mr. STUPAK. Mr. Chairman, I rise in local government would see a 17-per- out of it. We do not spend any money strong support of the Sanders-Bass cent increase in PILT money, and that on commercialization. Once it is prov- amendment which would restore much is a significant advantage to thousands en that a low emission boiler works, deserved funding to the PILT Program. of communities all over this country. then it is up to the private sector to PILT Program, payment in lieu of Mr. Chairman, we have heard a great take over from there. taxes. deal of discussion recently about evo- I simply say that to point out that Each year thousands of counties lution and our concerns for local com- we have tried to make these programs across this Nation lose out on millions munities and local government. It is very efficient. We have restructured of dollars in property tax revenue sim- high time that the Federal Govern- the programs so that we are not com- ply because the Federal Government ment accepted its responsibility to do mitted to large costly demonstration owns the property. While the PILT right by local communities. projects. Program was established to com- Mr. Chairman, the $47.5 million that But my colleagues have to remember pensate for this fact, it is woefully un- we are using for these purposes, in that this country relies on fossil fuels derfunded. Since it was adopted in 1976, other words, deficit reduction and in- for the majority of its energy require- the PILT Program has neither kept creasing PILT payments to local com- ments and will continue to do so for pace with its authorized funding levels, munities all over America, would be the foreseeable future. That is coal, oil, nor with the true costs of providing transferred from the Fossil Energy Re- and natural gas. This is what makes services in support of the Federal search and Development Program. Ac- this Nation great; this is what drives lands. cording to the report of the fiscal year this economy. We have repeatedly tried year after 1997 budget resolution which passed the I think one of the great advantages year to increase PILT payments, and House last year, the Republican resolu- our Nation has over our European com- unfortunately there is never any tion, and let me quote from that, and I petitors is low-cost energy. It is re- money for the PILT payments. And, as quote: flected in the fact that we have a 4 per- I said, it has not kept pace with the The Department of Energy has spent bil- cent growth in the economy. In 1997, we funding levels, the authorization lev- lions of dollars on research and development hope that the deficit will be down els, and that is why there is strong sup- since the oil crisis in 1973 triggered this ac- under $50 billion. But to do that we port of the Sanders-Bass amendment. tivity. Returns on this investment have not have to keep research in fossil fuels, we But if my colleagues take a look at it been cost effective, particularly for applied have to ensure that in the future we from an equity point of view, local gov- research and development which industry are going to have the advanced tech- ernments have a right to be com- has ample incentive to undertake. Some of nologies that will allow us to use our pensated for untaxable land which is this activity is simply corporate welfare for fossil energy sources in a very efficient owned by the Federal Government the oil, gas and utility industries. Much of it duplicates what the industry is already and environmentally sensitive way. within their jurisdiction, for providing doing. Some has gone to fund technologies in Of course some of the critics contend services to Federal employees, their which the market has low interest. that we should put more money into families, and to the users of the public Mr. Chairman, these are not my alternative energy sources and aban- lands. PILT funds are used by these words. These are the words from the re- don research on traditional energy, the communities for important programs port of the fiscal year 1997 budget reso- energy resources that fuel our econ- such as education, law enforcement, lution produced by the leadership of omy, but I think that does not make emergency search and rescue, fire and the Republican party. But obviously it sense given the realities of today’s emergency medical services, solid is not only Republicans or conserv- economy and the importance of fossil waste management, road maintenance, atives who feel this way; progressives fuel. and other health and human services. agree. Public Citizen has this to say I think that a lot of this research is In my district, Mr. Chairman, there about the Fossil Energy Research and designed to reduce the environmental are many counties where the Federal Development Program, and I quote: impact of the use of fossil fuels because Government is the largest land owner, realistically that is going to be our en- and our school districts cannot even Fossil energy programs have received over $15 billion in Federal funding since 1974. The ergy source for as far as the eye can bond to build a new school because fossil energy industry is prosperous and ma- see. And if we want to leave for future most of the land is encumbered by the ture, and it is not deserving of a continuing generations the opportunity to have Federal Government and is nontaxable. large share of taxpayer support. the same quality of life that we have Therefore we do not even have a tax July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5079 base to put forth a school system and has created more headaches than I The burdens that we place on them is to maintain a school system. would ever want to have in a given one that we need to recognize. We need Therefore I urge my colleagues to week. to recognize that the PILT has failed cast a vote for equity by voting in The question here really is, as he to live up to the obligations that were favor of the Sanders-Bass amendment. puts it, a question of priorities. There originally made, and that by putting Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- are over 2,000 counties in this country that forward, $19 million to make up tleman from Vermont [Mr. SANDERS]. in 49 States, the gentleman from Ver- some of this difference, we move with a Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I mont [Mr. SANDERS] said 50 States, system that is fairer, one that helps us thank the gentleman from Michigan that suffer as a result of chronic under- meet our commitments, and one that for yielding the balance of his time to funding of the payment in lieu of taxes provides a lot of these towns with prop- me, and I hate to disagree with my system in this country. The amend- erty tax relief, because so many of good friend, the gentleman from Ohio ment that my colleagues have before them rely on their property base for [Mr. REGULA] especially since we are them today will contribute not only to the taxes that they use to pay for mu- going to do a colloquy in a few mo- the PILT issue but also the deficit re- nicipal services. ments. But bottom line is the program duction. So while I would like to commend that we are talking about here is cor- Now, as other speakers have men- the chairman for his work in putting porate welfare. That is what the Fossil tioned this evening, communities with together this bill, I would like to lend Energy Research and Development significant Federal lands cannot col- my support to the gentleman from New Program is, and that is not just my lect the same kinds of property taxes Hampshire and the gentleman from opinion. I remind the Members that it as communities can that do not have Vermont, and encourage my colleagues was the 1997 budget resolution of the Federal lands, and as has been men- to support this amendment. Republican party which said, and I tioned before, the Federal Government Mr. BASS. Mr. Chairman, I thank my want to repeat this: moved to create a system whereby pay- colleague. The Department of Energy has spent bil- ments will be made in lieu of property Reclaiming my time, Mr. Chairman, I lions of dollars on research and development taxes, but these authorizations and would point out that if we were to fully since the oil crisis of 1973 triggered this ac- these commitments have been chron- fund the PILT program in fiscal year tivity. Returns on this investment have not ically underfunded. 1998, we would have an obligation of been cost effective, particularly for applied b 1800 $224 million. We are talking about research and development which industry $132.5 million, so we are certainly not has ample incentive to undertake. Some of In fact, today the Federal Govern- this activity is simply corporate welfare for ment only pays a little more than 60 asking for everything that is really the oil, gas and utility industry. percent of what they are obligated to due. I just want to conclude by saying Mr. Chairman, let me quote from the pay. What is the result of this? The re- that this is a bipartisan amendment. Congressional Budget Office: sult is that we have for communities in Any time the gentleman from Vermont In the area of fossil research and develop- the affected areas a Hobson’s choice. [Mr. SANDERS] and I are producing an ment, commercial firms already spend a Either they can disproportionately in- great deal of money to develop new tech- crease taxes in order to meet their amendment together, Members can be nologies. The major new technologies for en- funding obligations, or they can pro- sure it is bipartisan. It is an issue of hanced oil recovery, for example, have come vide fewer services: education, fire, and fairness, an issue of giving what is due from private industry, not DOE. other services that are so necessary for the towns, giving the towns what they Mr. Chairman, this is an important communities. are due. It is not full funding, as I said point to make, and I want the Members I would not be standing before the a minute ago, but Mr. Chairman, it is to hear this: Members today concerned with this a step in the right direction. Among the beneficiaries of the petroleum amendment if it was not for the fact If Members support equity, if they research and development program are some that this is a question of equity and support help to communities that need of the largest multinational energy conglom- fairness. We are talking about adding assistance in funding for critical serv- erates in the world, including: Exxon, Chev- $19 million to the $132.5 million, which ices in areas where there are Federal ron, Conoco, Texaco, Amoco, Phillips Petro- would bring the funding level up to lands, please support the Sanders-Bass leum, ARCO and Shell. what it was supposed to have been in amendment. When kids around the country can- fiscal year 1995, when I entered Con- Mr. DOYLE. Mr. Chairman, I move to not get an education because this land gress. strike the requisite number of words. is their land, the public land is not Mr. SUNUNU. Mr. Chairman, will the Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposi- paying taxes, payment in lieu of taxes, gentleman yield? tion to the amendment. The gentleman should these major multinational cor- Mr. BASS. I yield to the gentleman from Vermont [Mr. SANDERS] is at- porations be the industries that we are from New Hampshire. tempting to increase funding for Pay- subsidizing? I think not. Mr. SUNUNU. Mr. Chairman, I would ment In Lieu of Taxes, which is not Mr. Chairman, this project, the fossil just like to rise in support of this necessarily a bad initiative, but he energy program, is being targeted as amendment and thank my colleague seeks to do so in a very reckless man- one of the dirty dozen corporate sub- the gentleman from New Hampshire ner. The fossil energy program is one of sidies by the Stop Corporate Welfare [Mr. BASS] and the gentleman from the least understood and most impor- Coalition, which includes National Vermont [Mr. SANDERS] for the excel- tant at the Department of Energy, sup- Taxpayers Union, Taxpayers For Com- lent work they have done with the porting important cost-shared research mon Sense, USPIRG, and Citizens amendment. and development activities to make en- Against Government Waste. I would just like to take a moment to ergy resources we use the most cleaner Mr. Chairman, this concept is sup- underscore the important point the and cheaper. ported by progressives and conserv- gentleman has made, that this is about This also enhances our energy secu- atives and people in between. Let us inequity, it is about meeting our com- rity as these resources are our most stop subsidizing large multinational mitments, meeting the commitments abundant domestic sources of energy. corporations who do not need tax- that were made when Congress author- The Energy Information Agency has payers’ money. Let us help local com- ized the Payment In Lieu of Tax sys- predicted that we will continue to rely munities all over America get the pay- tem. These are cities and towns that on these resources and these sources of ments in lieu of taxes that they need. have national forests within their bor- energy for over 85 percent of our en- Mr. BASS. Mr. Chairman, I move to ders, and they are obligated at times ergy needs well into the 21st century. strike the last word. for services, not just those of schools Additionally, any commitments the Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the or municipal services that so many United States makes in the area of amendment before the committee this cities and towns have, but oftentimes global climate change will necessitate evening, and I want to certainly thank services that take place in the bound- that we find ways of reducing emis- the chairman of the Subcommittee on aries of the national forest: rescue sions without crippling our economy. Interior for having crafted a bill that services, fire services. Thus, it is vital that we maintain this H5080 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 modest commitment to cleaner and source or a fund that benefits a re- Mr. Chairman, this amendment in- more efficient energy. source in his district. That is the budg- creases payments in lieu of taxes fund- Over the last several years fossil en- et economy we are dealing with. I also ing for counties and schools by $19 mil- ergy has undergone significant happen to have iron ore mining and lion, to $132 million for fiscal year 1998, downsizing, roughly 10 percent each manganese deposits in my district, and while at the same time reducing the year. Now is not the time to seek addi- the research conducted by the Bureau Federal deficit by $29 million. More tional savings from this program. This of Mines was terminated. The Bureau than 20 years ago this Congress recog- R&D work is conducted throughout the of Mines was eliminated under this nized a serious inequity existed in United States by a wide range of small budget economy of ours. That is unfor- areas containing a high percentage of and large companies. This amendment tunate. Federal property. Since the Federal calls for an across-the-board cut, which But this is an obligation of all Amer- Government does not pay taxes on its in no way takes into account the needs icans to those who live in the area own property, these areas were left of specific programs. where we took land and said we are without any source of funding to pro- Mr. Chairman, I urge the defeat of going to hold it in public trust. vide for local schools and county serv- this amendment. Let us take St. Louis County. We ices. Mr. OBERSTAR. I move to strike the could put the whole State of Massachu- In 1976, we attempted to correct this requisite number of words, Mr. Chair- setts into St. Louis County; not all of inequity and provided funding in the man. the people, but the geography. Some form of payments in lieu of taxes, or Mr. Chairman, in Minnesota if a pri- people might say, that is a good thing; PILT payments. However, since provid- vate citizen fails to pay his or her prop- not the folks in northern Minnesota, ing these payments, this Congress has erty tax bill within 7 years, they lose however. That is how big this county failed to fully fund the PILT Program. their property. The Federal Govern- is, 3,000 miles of county roads that Each year 1,789 communities in each of ment is 20 years behind in keeping up have to be maintained on this little the 50 States lose needed Federal pay- with its payments to the counties of county budget. ments due to the failure of the Federal northern Minnesota and elsewhere All we are saying is increase, in- Government to appropriately com- around this country under the terms of crease the funding under this Federal pensate these communities for lost the Payment In Lieu of Taxes legisla- program to help this county take care property tax revenue on federally tion. of search and rescue, law enforcement owned lands. The Sanders-Bass amend- Twenty-five years ago, as a staff costs, lost hikers who are out there in ment corrects this shortcoming, and member for my predecessor, John the Superior National Forest who need provides an increase of $1.86 million of Blatnik, who served in this body, I help. Someone has a fishhook in their necessary funding for the communities helped write the language that became eye in the Boundary Waters canoe in my own State of California. the Payment In Lieu of Taxes law that area, they have to be treated in the To put this amount into perspective, is in place today. As a Member, I have Cook County Hospital, or in the Cook many of the areas that will receive this worked to keep it in place, to expand Hospital in St. Louis County. funding were recently under water it, to update it. But it has not kept Sanitary enforcement, planning and when the midwinter storms caused se- pace with the needs of the counties in zoning, health services, groundwater, vere flooding. In January, the State of which these great Federal landholdings surface water, all of those are needs California suffered approximately $1.8 are located, and it has not kept pace, that the county has to attend to, and billion in damage. Each of the 10 coun- by any means, with inflation. they do not have the resources to deal ties in my district were declared a nat- These are lands held in public trust with it. All we are saying is help them ural disaster area. The $1.86 million in for all Americans to enjoy, and they do keep pace. PILT payments is sorely needed to re- come from all over the United States Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, will build after this serious disaster. to enjoy the land of northern Min- the gentleman yield? There are other reasons, however, to nesota, the boundary waters, canoe Mr. OBERSTAR. I yield to the gen- support this amendment. This money area, the Voyageurs National Park, Su- tleman from Vermont. goes directly to local schools and rural perior National Forest, I can go on Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, let me counties who can least afford a loss of with several others, and I will not pick up on a point that the gentleman funding. In one California county, re- name them. has made. In 1980 in real dollars PILT cent funding losses have forced the But who is stuck with the bill? When payments were $180 million. Today school district to completely cut out the accident happens on the highway they are $113 million. It is the commu- extracurricular activities, including between Duluth and Grand Portage, nities and the children and the citizens sports and field trips, food service for MN, up in Cook County, it is the Cook of those communities who are suffer- one of its elementary schools, library County sheriff’s department that has ing. I just wanted to reiterate that services, two-thirds of its transpor- to come to scrape the bodies off the point. tation services, all fine art programs, highway. It is the Cook County hos- Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, I teacher training courses, a school pital that has to stay open 24 hours a thank the gentleman for that elabo- nurse program, and all capital expendi- day to accommodate them, in a little ration. tures. county of 3,600 people, 94 percent of the We are simply making an appeal for If these same cuts had been made in land in public ownership, most of it fairness, those of us who represent urban and inner city areas, lawsuits Federal, and they do not have the re- areas with large land jurisdictions in would have been filed and service levels sources. How can 6 percent of the land Federal holdings, for justice, decency, would undoubtedly have been nec- sustain the total needs of that area and and respect for the people who are essarily restored. all the tourists who come from all over holding, who are the custodians of Mr. Chairman, today we heard a lot America to enjoy this land, and then these lands held in public trust for all of discussion over the need for Medi- they say, well, take care of our health Americans. Help them pay the bill. care and the need to provide medical needs, take care of our safety needs, Vote for the Sanders-Bass-Oberstar services for our elderly residents. Be- take care of our requirements, law en- amendment. fore any of our citizens can receive forcement requirements, while we are Mr. HERGER. Mr. Chairman, I move Medicare or Medicaid assistance they in your midst? to strike the requisite number of first must be able to have roads to All of America holds these lands in words. travel on to get to the hospitals, ambu- trust, and all of America should help Mr. Chairman, let me begin by lances to carry them in when needed, pay the bill. We have not kept pace thanking our chairman, the gentleman and hospitals to go to. By underfunding with the needs. That is what this from Ohio, Mr. RALPH REGULA, for the our rural counties, we have forced amendment simply does. outstanding work he has done on this these counties to cut back on county It is unfortunate, I say to my col- major piece of legislation and involve- services. These county services include league from Pennsylvania, that it ment in working with all of us. We road maintenance, ambulance service, comes out of a project or out of a re- commend him for that. search and rescue, law enforcement, July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5081 snowplowing, bridge maintenance, hos- Now, what can we say that would ele- got nuclear plants around the country pitals, and all local ground support for vate the priority for energy research? I that were built but never used. My maintenance of Federal lands. have tried to defend these research pro- good friend, the gentleman from Wash- If the county services were to go grams over the years in every way that ington [Mr. DICKS] has some in his away, the Federal Government would I could. I think all of you know that area. But do we regret the fact that we not have an infrastructure in place to according to most economists, half of spent money to develop the world’s service its public lands. When visitors the economic growth in this country, best nuclear power system? No. The na- get lost on public lands, it is the coun- the increase in gross national product, ture of research is that you get some ty search and rescue that comes to stems from investments that we make winners and you make a few losers their aid. When visitors to public lands in research. We make it in solar energy once in a while. But if you do not con- need police protection, that need is research; we make it in fuel cell re- tinue to make the investments, you filled by county services. search. We make it in all kinds of re- will never make progress. Mr. Chairman, I support the Sanders- search. And we support a multitude of I will stand in every case where an Bass amendment because it gives nec- research programs. offset is made from energy research to essary assistance to counties otherwise Why pick on these research programs support a worthy program and oppose left without a source of funding. I urge which collectively generate the growth it, much as I would like to support the my colleagues to vote for public in the U.S. economy and make us the worthy program. We are cutting at the schools and county services by support- world’s leader in order to support lifeblood of this country’s future when ing this amendment. something which deserves support but we begin to take out the funds for this Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- does not deserve support at the expense offset from research programs of any man, I move to strike the requisite of what creates the growth for this kind. number of words. country? It creates the jobs that we are Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I move (Mr. BROWN of California asked and training people in the schools for and to strike the requisite number of was given permission to revise and ex- does all of these other things. words. tend his remarks.) Mr. Chairman, I would like to begin Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- I think that there is a failure to rec- by expressing appreciation to the gen- man, if we are engaged in a comparison ognize the importance of these invest- EGULA] for the of the size of the counties that we rep- ments. I want to stress them in every tleman from Ohio [Mr. R resent, I would like to enter my entry way that I can. fine legislation that is before us, but Now, I also do not like, and I hope I in the contest. My good friend, the gen- would like to say a few words in sup- do not offend anybody by making this port of the Bass-Sanders amendment tleman from California, [Mr. JERRY statement, to argue support for this on and give an example from my own dis- LEWIS], and I represent San Bernardino County, which is larger in size than the the grounds that this research is cor- trict. States of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, porate welfare. Last fall, as many of my colleagues Many of my colleagues have heard Maryland, Delaware, and Massachu- know, President Clinton, with a few setts combined. me debate our dear departed friend, quick words and the stroke of a pen, Bob Walker, who I think coined this created the massive Grand Staircase- b 1815 phrase because he objected to most Escalante National Monument in Both of us, while we support the forms of applied research that involved southern Utah. Contained within the PILT program, oppose the offset provi- cooperation between the Government 1.7 million acre monument are two sion that is contained in this amend- and the private sector. That is what counties in Utah, Kane and Garfield ment offered by my good friend, the this fossil energy research does. Bob Counties. Thousands of tourists are gentleman from Vermont [Mr. SAND- used to decry any of these kinds of pro- now flocking to this area because it ERS]. grams because he would say they are has been advertised in virtually every May I stress that while the support corporate subsidies. They are corporate travel magazine in the country and the for this amendment deservedly is bi- welfare. burden of those tourists falls squarely partisan, the opposition is also biparti- I happen to know a lot about cor- upon the 10,000 residents of those two san. I would like to make that very porate welfare. The biggest corporate counties. clear. welfare program in the world was the These small counties have excruciat- Let me say in case there is any doubt oil depletion allowance, which provided ingly small tax bases. Garfield County, about it that my very large county is a very large subsidy to a very profit- for instance, is 98 percent owned by the probably about 75 percent owned by the able industry over very many years Federal Government. Yet every local Federal Government, and we benefit as until we woke up to the fact that it resident must now pay for the costs of much from PILT payments as any really was corporate welfare and we law enforcement, search and rescue, other county in the United States, eliminated it. trash pickup, and other services in- probably considerably more because we These programs of cost-shared re- curred by tourists to the monument. are the largest county in the United search, in which the role of the Federal That is fundamentally unfair. States. And if there was any way that Government is frequently only 5 or 10 Since we as Americans own the land, we could provide adequate funding for percent, leverage the most important the Federal Government, not the resi- this program, other than taking it out investments by the private sector that dents of Kane County or Garfield Coun- of research programs which I have been can be made. ty, should pay those bills. supporting for the last 30 years, I would The CHAIRMAN. The time of the This amendment is an important in- be very happy to support this amend- gentleman from California [Mr. BROWN] cremental step toward placing more of ment. has expired. the costs of Federal lands where they But I want to make it clear that the (By unanimous consent, Mr. BROWN belong, on the Federal Government. I target for funding the PILT program is of California was allowed to proceed for encourage my colleagues to vote yes on not a proper target. If there is any 1 additional minute.) the Sanders-Bass amendment. question about the value of energy re- Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I ask search and specifically fossil energy re- man, we should be proud of the fact unanimous consent to strike the req- search to this country, we ought to dis- that these shared research programs uisite number of words. pel it. This country has had a flourish- exemplified by the fossil energy re- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection ing, developing, expanding economy be- search programs have contributed as to the request of the gentleman from cause we conducted research on energy much as they have. Have they all been Ohio? technologies of all kinds, beginning successful? No. Over the last 25 years, I There was no objection. with the atomic energy program in could give my colleagues a long list of Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I under- World War II, and I have been involved, those which did not produce and which stand the concern they have for PILT. of course, with that program which were canceled, sometimes without Let me point out to my colleagues preceded the creation of the Depart- being completed. Much of our nuclear that we put in $12 million more than ment of Energy. program could be criticized. We have was requested by the President in his H5082 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 budget. We recognize how important Mr. REGULA. Reclaiming my time, these subsidies. I would simply point this is to those who have Federal lands, Mr. Chairman, I understand what the out that opposition to the fossil re- and for that reason we increased the gentleman is saying. As I pointed out search program is widespread from con- PILT program $12 million over what in the general debate, this bill is less servatives, from progressives. It was the President requested. than last year, not much but it is less targeted as one of the quote unquote But, as the gentleman from Califor- and, therefore, we simply cannot do all dirty dozen corporate subsidies by the nia [Mr. BROWN] pointed out, our fossil the good things we would like to do. Stop Corporate Welfare Coalition energy research and development is But I think the fossil research pro- which includes the National Taxpayers also an important program. And we grams are vital. These are contractual Union, not necessarily a progressive or- have, over the years, developed syner- relationships. The government, the ganization, I do not get a terribly high gically advanced technology, as has United States Government has a re- rating from them, Taxpayers for Com- been stated many times. We can burn sponsibility to complete these con- mon Sense, USPIRG, Citizens Against coal more cleanly and efficiently be- tracts because the private sector has Government Waste. cause of the fossil energy research ef- invested its money, and to suddenly The choice is clear. Do we stand up fort. For every barrel of oil we pro- pull the rug out from under them for the kids who are not getting ade- duced, we have left two in the ground. would be not only unfair but could be quate education throughout this coun- And we have invested millions of dol- very costly in lawsuits. try because of lack of Federal pay- lars under the leadership of the gen- Far more important, if this Nation is ments, or do we stand with some com- tleman from California [Mr. BROWN] in to continue to grow, to have jobs, to panies that really do not need the sub- developing technologies to recover have opportunities, to continue to be a sidies. I would urge a ‘‘yes’’ vote for these resources. world leader, we need to develop the the Sanders-Bass amendment. The reason we have cheap fuel in this fossil energy resources so we can use b 1830 country, the reason our economy is the them in an environmentally safe way, strongest in the world, is in part be- we can use them at a low cost to our The CHAIRMAN. The question is on cause we have readily available energy economy; and certainly we have a pro- the amendment offered by the gen- resources and that is the result of the posal from the EPA to decrease, in ef- tleman from Vermont [Mr. SANDERS]. The question was taken; and the things that we have done in the past in fect, the levels of particulate matter. Chairman announced that the noes ap- fossil research, a result of the commit- That, again, emphasizes how important tee, the Committee on Science, having peared to have it. research on fossil energy is to the fu- Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I de- the vision to authorize these programs. ture of this Nation. mand a recorded vote. We have another problem. That is, we If we are to meet these new more The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House are phasing down contracts, but we stringent standards on air quality, we Resolution 181, further proceedings on have contractual obligations. If we have to continue the fossil research the amendment offered by the gen- take $47 million out of the fossil re- programs. As the gentleman from Cali- tleman from Vermont [Mr. SANDERS] search program, we are going to breach fornia [Mr. BROWN] pointed out, I do will be postponed. contracts. We are going to have law- not quarrel with the PILT program. Mr. MICA. Mr. Chairman, I rise to suits against this government. That is why we increased it $12 million strike the last word. We have already reduced the fossil over the President’s budget request. Mr. Chairman, I rise to engage the program 30 percent. So let me say, and But I think to take money out of the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], I endorse what the gentleman from fossil program would be a serious mis- chairman of the Subcommittee on In- California [Mr. BROWN] said, PILT pay- take in terms of the future of this Na- terior of the Committee on Appropria- ments are, but this is not the place to tion. tions, in a brief colloquy. take the money because we want to Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I ask I first want to take a moment to keep those jobs, we want to keep this unanimous consent to strike the req- thank the gentleman from Ohio and his economy strong. We will not get to a uisite number of words. staff and the ranking member and the balanced budget unless we have growth The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection staff of the minority for the tremen- in the economy. Energy is the lifeblood to the request of the gentleman from dous effort they have put forth in of this Nation. It is critical to continue Vermont? bringing this legislation to the floor. I to develop these advanced technologies There was no objection. realize the many challenges that they to lead us to the 21st century. Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I want have and the many needs that we have And let me say, too, in our fossil re- to thank the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. throughout the Department of the In- search programs, we have insisted on REGULA] for the outstanding work that terior and the demands on Interior ap- cost-share participation from the pri- he has done on this budget. I applaud propriations. vate sector. This is not a giveaway. his efforts. We just disagree on this Mr. Chairman, I was going to offer an And one of the reasons these programs issue. amendment to increase funding for the have been so successful is because the This is the bottom line. It is not National Park Service for a project in private sector gets involved with their complicated. You have heard it from my district known as Seminole Rest, a own money. conservatives and progressives, Demo- historic site renovation project at Ca- Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, will crats, Republicans and Independents. naveral National Seashore in east the gentleman yield? This is tripartitism. The issue is that central Florida. Although I will not Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- we have 1,700 communities throughout offer that amendment, I strongly sup- tleman from Minnesota. the United States of America in 50 port efforts to develop this site in a Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, I was States who are not receiving fair com- manner which preserves both its re- remiss in not thanking the chairman pensation from the Federal Govern- sources while making them available and recognizing the chairman for his ment. for public enjoyment. efforts to increase the funding of PILT. In fact, in 1980, in real dollars, they Mr. Chairman, it is my hope and un- I really do appreciate the initiative. were receiving then $180 million in derstanding that the gentleman will This is not a comment in any way on PILT payments. Today it is $113 mil- work with me and the National Park the gentleman’s custodianship of that lion, significant reduction in PILT pay- Service and the Department of the In- extraordinarily difficult budget which ments. terior to help preserve and develop this he has to administer. These are very In terms of the fossil energy research project, Seminole Rest at Canaveral difficult choices. We understand that. and development program, what we National Seashore. We understand the need for research. have got to ask ourselves is whether or Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the We have spent millions of dollars on not we should be subsidizing Exxon, gentleman yield? those research projects for fossil fuel Chevron, Conoco, Texaco, Amoco, Phil- Mr. MICA. I yield to the gentleman over the years. I compliment the chair- lips Petroleum, ARCO and Shell. These from Ohio. man on the job he has done. It is just are profitable multinational corpora- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I thank that we feel that we need to go further. tions. I frankly do not think they need the gentleman from Florida for his July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5083 comments and I would be pleased to LAND ACQUISITION to the people of this country to make work the gentleman and with the Na- For expenses necessary to carry out sec- sure that the legacy of this country tional Park Service to find appropriate tions 205, 206, and 318(d) of Public Law 94–579, with respect to the greatest of our nat- means to address the problems at Sem- including administrative expenses and acqui- ural resource assets, our parks, our ref- inole Rest. sition of lands or waters, or interests there- uges, our wilderness areas and those in, $12,000,000, to be derived from the Land areas yet waiting to be acquired is pre- Mr. MICA. Mr. Chairman, reclaiming and Water Conservation Fund, to remain my time, I thank the chairman and I available until expended. served. Two of the most important to me in will be submitting a more lengthy AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. MILLER OF this fiscal cycle is that which is to deal statement, a complete statement, for CALIFORNIA with the buyout of the New World the RECORD. Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- Mine, which was a mining development Mr. Chairman, I rise today to express my man, I offer an amendment. which was providing the threat to Yel- concern that we may miss an opportunity to Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I re- lowstone National Park above the save a resource of great significance to both serve a point of order on the gentle- Clark’s Fork River. I think the admin- my State of Florida and our NationÐSeminole man’s amendment. Rest, which is located at the Canaveral Na- The CHAIRMAN. The point of order istration and the mining company tional Seashore. This 26-acre site sits on the is reserved. came to a wise agreement not to go edge of Mosquito Lagoon in one of the last The Clerk will report the amend- forward but certainly they were enti- pristine environmental preserves along the ment. tled to compensation. The other is in the Headwaters For- East Coast of the United States. On this prop- The Clerk read as follows: erty are located three cultural resources; a est in northern California, where we Amendment offered by Mr. Miller of Cali- have one of the last remaining stands shell midden known as Snyder Mound as well fornia: as two historic buildings; the Instone House Page 5, after line 15, insert: of old growth forests, of redwood trees, and the Caretaker's House. that clearly the Nation has made a de- PRIORITY FEDERAL LAND ACQUISITIONS AND cision they would like to preserve. Cer- Seminole Rest holds archaeological re- EXCHANGES tainly the people of California recog- sources which reflect periodic occupation over To carry out priority Federal land ex- a period of about 2000 years. In fact, Snyder change agreements and priority Federal land nize that these forests say a great deal Mound is one of the most significant and acquisitions by the National Park Service, about the heritage of this country and unique Indian middens in the United States. United States Fish and Wildlife Service, Bu- the importance of those forests to the This midden contains the remains of shellfish reau of Land Management, and the United American people. States Forest Service, up to $700,000,000 to be Again, negotiations have been en- and other refuse discarded by prehistoric Indi- derived from the Land and Water Conserva- tered into, including the State of Cali- ans who inhabited the site as early as 800 AD tion Fund, to remain available until ex- fornia, the Federal Government, this and may represent as much as 700 years of pended, of which not to exceed $65,000,000 is administration, Members of Congress prehistoric occupation. The two historic for the acquisition of identified lands and in- to try to come to an agreement for the houses are significant for their design and in- terests in lands and for other purposes to purchase price. This $700 million would tegrity, and have been located on the property carry out the Agreement of August 12, 1996, allow these two purchases to go for- since before 1890. On March 19, 1997, Semi- to acquire interests to protect and preserve ward and also providing additional nole Rest was listed on the National Register Yellowstone National Park, and not to ex- ceed $250,000,000 is for the acquisition of iden- money for other purchases and priority of Historic Places. tified lands and interests in lands, at the projects within the agreement. I strongly believe we should be acting to de- purchase price specified, in the September Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that some velop Seminole Rest in a manner which pre- 28, 1996, Headwaters Forest Agreement. people who perhaps do not know as serves its resources while making them avail- Mr. MILLER of California (during much about the priorities and the able for public enjoyment. Additional property the reading). Mr. Chairman, I ask needs of the Park Service got involved north and south of Seminole Rest should be unanimous consent that the amend- in suggesting to the committee maybe acquired both to act as a protective buffer and ment be considered as read and printed where this money should have been to provide for an interpretive displayÐone in the RECORD. spent, and they would have been better which would trace the history of the Indians The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection off not doing that. But I am also ter- who once lived on the site. Further space ex- to the request of the gentleman from ribly afraid that we will lose the oppor- ists for marine life exhibits, limited public boat- California? tunity to have this money be used for launching facilities and boat tours from Semi- There was no objection. this purpose should this bill pass with- nole Rest to Canaveral National Seashore. Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- out this amendment to it, and we will Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, despite the ob- man, I thank the chairman for his res- lose the opportunity both for the ac- vious archaeological and historical significance ervation of his point of order. quisition of the Headwaters and of the of this tremendous resource, Seminole Rest The purpose of this amendment New World Mine and the backlog. today lies in a state of abandonment and dete- which I am offering is to try to reinsert It is interesting, as we told Members rioration. Despite the obvious potential of into this bill, the legislation that is be- we were going to offer this amendment, Seminole Rest, the two houses on its property fore us, the $700 million, for the Land a great many Members have called our are in desperate need of repairs and restora- and Water Conservation Fund for the office saying could they be included. tion. And with many other shell middens lost acquisitions that were discussed within That is not our purpose in offering this over the years to erosion and construction, the Committee on the Budget and amendment. That is a proper question Snyder Mound is one of the last sites of its within the budget agreement agreed to for the Committee on Appropriations. kind and may be lost as well. However, I am between the leadership of both Houses Let me just say, and then I will be concerned that the appropriations bill before and the President of the United States. glad to yield, that I offer this amend- us today lacks the critical funding which would The Land and Water Conservation ment in the spirit of many of the Mem- permit the National Park Service to act to save Fund, as most Members understand, bers who are on the floor today with this resource. was intended by Congress to provide deep concern about our natural re- Today I had intended to offer an amend- the resources to protect, enhance, and sources. That is not to in any way min- ment to provide an additional $2 million to the expand our Nation’s parks, wildlife ref- imize the struggle and the work prod- National Park Service for operation and main- uges, public lands and forests. The uct of this committee, because this tenance so that it might act to save Seminole trust fund has accumulated some $12 committee has been handed a menu of Rest. I will instead withdraw my amendment billion and is growing at the rate of desires by Members of Congress on an and have agreed to work with both my distin- nearly $1 billion a year. urgent basis and the committee simply guished colleague, Chairman REGULA, and So when the conferees to the budget does not have enough money to meet with the National Park Service to ensure that agreement provided for priority land all those needs. So I say that because I we preserve and develop Seminole Rest as a acquisitions of some $700 million, they think this committee has done an out- national and historic resource. were not being fiscally irresponsible at standing job. I just would hate to lose The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. all. What they were trying to do is to the opportunity that this money with- The Clerk read as follows: get this Congress to meet its obligation in the budget agreement provides us. H5084 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 The CHAIRMAN. The time of the With respect to the $700 million that Seriously, Mr. Chairman, let me say gentleman from California [Mr. was negotiated, I do not think anyone to the gentleman that I think he is MILLER] has expired. in this room was part of that negotia- making a terribly important and valid (On request of Mr. DICKS, and by tion, but the $700 million, wherever it point and that is why I alluded to, in unanimous consent, Mr. MILLER of came from, is restricted to land acqui- my remarks, that I wished when the California was allowed to proceed for 3 sition. deal was cut they had spent some time additional minutes.) The problem I have with this is that with people who had spent most of Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, will the we are looking at this backlog of their legislative life dealing with these gentleman yield? unmet maintenance needs of $14 bil- issues and a better package could have Mr. MILLER of California. I yield to lion. We look at construction projects, been put together. the gentleman from Washington. and we have heard of them today. The gentleman from Washington [Mr. Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I appre- Frankly, Indian facilities are a trag- DICKS] suggested there may be an op- ciate first of all the chairman’s leni- edy. What we have let happen to portunity over the life of this bill to ency here, and I want to compliment schools and hospitals on Indian res- my friend from California for bringing get some of this money included, and I ervations is a disgrace. There are so would hope it would be. I also hope it this issue up. many unmet needs. And today, when Our committee struggled with this would be included with the full input of the United States already owns nearly the Committee on Appropriations so issue. A decision was made not to put 30 percent of the Federal land, I do not the money in at this point. I happen to that we can go to where the priorities think it makes good sense prioritywise are. I would say that there is a lot at believe, and I hope that by the time to commit another $700 million to the this bill is done that we will have the stake both with respect to the New purchase of enormous additional acre- World Mine and the Headwaters. $700 million then. age. Before we start buying more, let I would also just say that the United I had a chance to visit northern Cali- us take care of what we have. fornia, the redwoods myself, just a few Most people do not realize that al- States recently won a very important days ago during the recess. I wanted to most one-third of the United States is court case that said that we owned the see this Headwaters area. And I think Federal land. And on those lands and lands that were contested off the coast it is absolutely essential that we move on these facilities we have this $14 bil- of Alaska, and it is about $1.5 billion. I forward. Others are more expert on the lion in unmet needs, $14 billion of ne- have introduced legislation. I would Yellowstone issue. glect. To go out and buy land, I think, hope this committee would take a look I know our chairman had concerns would be a great mistake in judgment at whether or not that money could be about the backlog of maintenance and and in establishing priorities, which we put into restoration and the backlog other things and, hopefully, we can have to do on this bill. that has so troubled the chairman and work out something in the conference Now, I would point out to the gen- the rest of us. Because the gentleman’s committee on this issue if the gentle- tleman from California, he mentioned priorities are exactly right, but some- man’s amendment is stricken. I regret the New World Mine and the Head- how we have to find the money to deal that it will be, I think it will be, but I waters Forest, but there is no environ- on both fronts, both with acquisitions think bringing up this issue is very, mental impact statement at the mo- and with the standard of care we owe very important. I hope at the end of ment, there is no current appraisal, the American people with the current the day we are able to acquire these there is no habitat conservation plan, resources. properties and make the progress there has not been a hearing in our Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, will the which I know the gentleman and many committee and there is no comprehen- gentleman yield? of us would like to see accomplished in sive oversight. Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- this Congress. The President told us earlier this tleman from Washington. Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- year that they did not need us. They Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, as I un- man, reclaiming my time, I thank the did not need the Committee on Appro- derstand the problem here, under the gentleman very much for his remarks, priations; they were going to handle Land and Water Conservation Fund and again I hope that people under- this under FLPMA by exchanging lands legislation, we do not have an author- stand the spirit in which this amend- and giving the owner of Headwaters a ization to do backlog projects with ment was offered. building in Los Angeles and so on. that money. I appreciate the chairman reserving Then, suddenly, they discover they The CHAIRMAN. The time of the his point of order rather than making need money. gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] has it at the outset so we would have an Let me point out again that priority- expired. opportunity to discuss a matter which wise we have a lot of other things: fail- (On request of Mr. DICKS, and by is obviously very, very important to ing sewer systems at Yellowstone and unanimous consent, Mr. REGULA was those of us in California, but I think Glacier, unsafe access routes at Cape also to many of our colleagues, as we Cod, at Eisenhower, at Shenandoah, allowed to proceed for 1 additional struggle to provide for the backlog of leaky roofs at the native American minute.) acquisitions and maintenance and re- schools in Oklahoma, Maine, and Ari- Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, the distin- pair to the public resources in this zona, condemned kitchens, inoperative guished gentleman is in a position on country. plumbing in Washington and Arizona the authorization committee to help us I want to again commend the chair- in detention facilities, fire hazards, de- solve that problem. That would be, I man. I wish I could have stood up and teriorated dams and levees, endanger- think, a good change, and we could had a colloquy with the gentleman, be- ing habitat and public recreation, ero- have a balance between new acquisi- cause everyone was doing so well in sion of water control structures, 100 tions and taking care of the backlog. I these colloquies, but, unfortunately, I abandoned mine shafts and the list think that would be a very good out- only had an amendment so it has not goes on, all a great danger to the peo- come here. worked out quite as well as I wanted it ple of this Nation. to. But I appreciate the gentleman’s Prioritywise, to spend $700 million, b 1845 adding to the 30 percent of America we reservation and allowing me the time I know it is one the chairman, I already own would be a serious mis- to offer this amendment. think, thinks is the right direction to The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman take in the face of all these needs that go. from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] still reserve face us. his point of order? Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- (Mr. REGULA asked and was given Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I con- man, will the gentleman yield? permission to speak for 2 additional tinue to reserve my point of order. Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- minutes.) Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the tleman from California. Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, will the requisite number of words. Mr. MILLER of California. Perhaps gentleman yield? I thank the gentleman for his com- the gentleman would like to exercise a Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- ments and I understand his concerns. point of order. tleman from Wisconsin [Mr. OBEY], the July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5085 ranking member on the Committee on unique wonder of nature, because once House Report 105–151. This amendment Appropriations. lost, it is lost forever. would provide a new budget authority Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank I would also say that in addition to in excess of the subcommittee alloca- the gentleman from Ohio for yielding. my own area that I am interested in, I tion and is not permitted under section I simply would like to say that I think the New World Mine property is 302(f) of the act. think the amendment of the gentleman an important acquisition because it In addition, Mr. Chairman, section from California is a constructive would threaten Yellowstone National 205 of the budget resolution only makes amendment because it both attempts Park if we could not do that. the $700 million available for land ac- to target some of the high priority But, as I say, the gentleman is quite quisition if it is in a reported bill from items that ought to be purchased and, correct, he was not appropriately ap- the Committee on Appropriations. The second, it does not attempt to put this proached for this appropriation because budget resolution does not apply to committee in an illegitimate strait- at the time another remedy was being floor amendments. jacket, as did the Committee on the sought. Those remedies have been ex- Mr. Chairman, I ask that the amend- Budget in its gratuitous determination hausted. We do have an agreement now ment be ruled out of order. of exactly what amount would be pro- which I hope, further along in the proc- The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman vided. ess, as the gentleman from Washington from California [Mr. MILLER] wish to Under the Committee on the Budget, [Mr. DICKS] and the gentleman from be heard on the point of order? under the rules that they would want California [Mr. MILLER] said, that we Mr. MILLER of California. Unfortu- enforced, it would be permissible and will have a chance to revisit this. nately, Mr. Chairman, I think I have to within budget rules if we produced $700 I once again thank the gentleman for concede that the gentleman from Ohio million in acquisition, but it would be the way he does protect our natural re- [Mr. REGULA] is correct. I wish the rule against the rules as exceeding the sources and listens to our concerns. had been written otherwise. But, in budget amounts if we provided $690 Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the Miller fact, the gentleman is correct. million. That is ludicrous on its face. amendment to provide increased funding for The CHAIRMAN. The point of order I think the gentleman’s amendment, the Land and Water Conservation Fund. is conceded and sustained. by saying up to $700 million, brings it The fund has been dormant for far too long Mr. FARR of California. Mr. Chairman, I rise back within the legitimate approach of while the backlog of environmentally sensitive today in strong support to the amendment of- the appropriations process, and at the lands has increased to a critical stage. fered by the gentleman from California [Mr. same time it tries to meet some high- The budget agreement provided $700 mil- MILLER]. This amendment will raise the funding priority needs of the country with re- lion for the land acquisitions under the fund level for the land and water conservation fund spect to Yellowstone and the California and yet the committee chose not to include to a level consistent with the budget resolution lands in question. I, for one, think the this amount of funding. that 333 of our colleagues supported. The amendment would be adopted if the We have waited for years to address the budget agreement authorized these funds as rules of this House made any sense and enormous backlog that exists, as well as to an addition to the 602(b) allocations, so it if the House itself made any sense on act on new priorities that will be opportunities wouldn't take money from other programs. this bill. lost without this funding. The Appropriations Committee failed to in- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, how For instance, there is now an agreement, clude these funds in this bill. It seems con- much time do I have? concluded after exhaustive negotiations, be- tradictory to me that we will spend all of this The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman tween major timber interests and the Federal time debating an amendment that was already from Ohio has 1 minute remaining. Government to acquire important lands in the agreed to overwhelmingly by this body. (By unanimous consent Mr. Regula Headwaters Forest. This is an extremely vital The land and water conservation fund was allowed to proceed for an addi- part of our northern California forest eco- serves as a primary vehicle for land acquisi- tional 2 minutes.) system that protects endangered species and tion to protect the natural, historic, cultural, Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield their habitats. It is a long-waited goal that is and outdoor recreational resources that must to the gentlewoman from California now before us and will be lost without action be guarded and preserved so that they may [Ms. PELOSI]. now. be passed on to future generations. President Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Chairman, I thank In addition to this important acquisition, the Theodore Roosevelt said ``The Nation be- the distinguished chairman for yield- New World Mine property that would threaten haves well if it treats the natural resources as ing. I am going to submit my full Yellowstone National Park is a priority acquisi- assets, which it must turn over to the next statement for the RECORD, because the tion. We cannot measure the value of this nat- generation increased, and not impaired in gentleman from California [Mr. MIL- ural treasureÐone of the crown jewels and value.'' LER] covered, in presenting his amend- original parks in our national system. There is not a congressional district in the ment, many of the concerns that I We had an agreement; the money is country that has not benefited from the parks, have. thereÐwhy should we hesitate to address recreation facilities, wildlife areas made pos- But I do want to commend the gen- these compelling needs. Why should we risk sible by this fund. For years Congress has de- tleman from Ohio (Mr. Regula), the dis- the future of these great, unique wonders of nied allocating all of the money that is avail- tinguished chairman, for his leadership nature? Once lost, they are lost forever. able to the land and water conservation fund on this committee. We are very fortu- I urge my colleagues to support the Miller from the revenues received from oil and gas nate to have him there. And he is quite amendment. Thank you. leasing on the outer continental shelf. Last correct, there were representations Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, re- year, Congress only spent $138 million of the made about the Headwaters, that some claiming my time, just let me make a almost $900 million that was collected. This kind of exchange could be made final comment. I would hope that the year the appropriators approved an additional through a full presentation to the sub- committee, in which the ranking post $100 million but it is still less than one-third of committee on the Headwaters. is held by the gentleman from Califor- the money available this year and only a trivial The need for funds for Headwaters nia [Mr. MILLER], would examine some amount of the more than $10 billion of the ac- was not presented to him. But we do of these issues in the interim between cumulated unappropriated balance. now have an agreement, concluded now and conference. Mr. Chairman, it is time that we use this after exhaustive negotiations between POINT OF ORDER money as it was intended. The Miller amend- major timber districts and the Federal The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman ment must pass for two important reasons: Government, to acquire the important from Ohio insist on his point of order? first, it keeps us from violating the budget res- land in the Headwaters Forest. As the Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I make olution and second, it is a positive step for- chairman knows, this is an extremely a point of order against the amend- ward in the mission of the land and water con- vital part of our northern California ment because it is in violation of sec- servation fund to protect our resources and forest ecosystem that protects endan- tion 302(f) of the Congressional Budget promote recreation. gered species and their habitat. It is a Act, as amended. AMENDMENT NO. 1 OFFERED BY MR. GUTIERREZ long-awaited goal that is now before The Committee on Appropriations Mr. GUTIERREZ. Mr. Chairman, I us, that will be lost without action filed a revised subcommittee allocation offer an amendment and I ask unani- now. We do not want to risk this great, for fiscal year 1998 on June 24, 1997, mous consent to amend part of the bill H5086 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 that has been previously read for At the 10 demonstrations sites al- dollar program in the Department of amendment. ready established by DOE, every dollar Energy. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection in Federal funding has been matched I have to point out also that the off- to the request of the gentleman from by $7 or more by local and State gov- set here for this proposed amendment Illinois? ernments, utilities, business groups, is to eliminate $4.6 million out of the There was no objection. and nongovernmental institutions. Na- total of $5.6 million in the Bureau of The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- tionally, the cost benefits of imple- Land Management for the Public Do- ignate the amendment. menting energy conservation measures main Forestry Program. Obviously this The text of the amendment is as fol- such as hide reflective surfaces pro- is a very important program, and this lows: gram are estimated to reach $4 billion amendment would terminate the Bu- Amendment No. 1 Offered by Mr. a year. However, we cannot attain reau of Land Management’s ability to GUTIERREZ: Page 2, line 13, strike these savings unless we dedicate more preserve forests on 48 million acres of ‘‘$581,591,000’’ and insert in lieu thereof money to research. forest land. This amendment would ‘‘$576,939,000’’. devastate local communities that de- Page 60, line 20, strike ‘‘$636,766,000’’ and These cost-effective benefits stand in insert in lieu thereof ‘‘$638,866,000’’. clear contrast to BLM forestry. The pend on timber and vegetative products from the BLM forest lands, and would The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman BLM forestry program has been found result in the loss of hundreds of tim- from Illinois [Mr. GUTIERREZ] is recog- to consistently operate at a significant ber-related jobs. nized for 5 minutes in support of his loss to American taxpayers. Rather than being an economically self-suffi- BLM would be unable to deliver criti- amendment. cal services to local communities, in- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I ask cient program, as required by Federal cluding wildfire control efforts, and unanimous consent that all debate on law, the BLM forestry program fails to prescribed fire planning and control. this amendment and all amendments offset even the cost of administering BLM would be unable to undertake thereto close in 10 minutes and that the program. In fact, the more money the agency has devoted to this pro- projects to reduce susceptibility to the time be equally divided. fire, to address overstocking in wood- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection gram, the more taxpayer dollars have lands and commercial forest areas, and to the request of the gentleman from been wasted and lost. to do forestry stocking. Over $3.5 mil- Ohio? Based on data collected by a non- lion would be lost in BLM timber re- There was no objection. profit public employee organization, Mr. GUTIERREZ. Mr. Chairman, I the program stands to lose more than ceipts. Because of this amendment, yield myself such time as I may $30 million during the next 5 years. For 40,000 permits that are issued for the consume. this reason, Taxpayers for Common sale of vegetative products would not Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment Sense and the Concord Coalition sup- be issued, resulting in again an annual that I have had scored by the Congres- port eliminating funding for BLM for- loss of $300,000. Obviously, I understand the interest sional Budget Office, and they have de- estry. of the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. termined that this amendment will In addition to the economic and GUTIERREZ] in this. But to take $4.6 save taxpayers $4 million in outlays budgetary reasons for eliminating the million out of a budget of only $5.6 mil- this year. I ask that I be authorized to program, experts believe it is threaten- lion for the BLM forestry program present this amendment at this time. ing the unique transitional forests that I want to thank the chairman, the would be a serious mistake. exist in many regions around our na- Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], tion. Disregard for to the National En- gentleman yield? and the ranking member, in whose vironmental Protection Act has also Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- stead the gentleman from Washington been well documented in the adminis- tleman from Washington. [Mr. DICKS] was here for us instead of tration of this program. Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. As we work to balance the Federal opposition to the amendment proposed YATES], for permitting me the presen- budget, I feel well should not devote by my friend the gentleman from Illi- tation of my amendment to the Inte- our precious resources to inefficient nois [Mr. GUTIERREZ]. I do believe the rior appropriations bill. programs. This is a simple amendment chairman has made a compelling case I believe that the amendment before that accomplishes three goals. We de- here about why this cut to the public us offers the Members of the House an vote $2.5 million to deficit reduction. domain program would be devastating outstanding opportunity to save tax- We increase funding by $2.1 million for to the BLM and to those communities payers’ dollars, to reduce the deficit. energy conservation. We bring under that rely on it. I just regret that the My amendment gives an opportunity to control a wrongful and environ- gentleman did not have a better eliminate some government waste and mentally damaging program. source, but have I to be in opposition inefficiency in favor of deficit reduc- I urge my colleagues to support this to this amendment. tion and modest funding for programs amendment and work with me to re- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, re- that promote local community solu- duce the deficit, eliminate waste, and claiming my time, I urge the defeat of tions to energy conservation. increase savings for future generations. the amendment. I hope the gentleman My amendment would reduce funding Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance from Illinois [Mr. GUTIERREZ] will work for the Bureau of Land Management’s of my time. with the Department of Energy in the Public Domain Forestry Program from Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield urban heat island research programs, the committee recommendation of myself such time as I may consume. I but it would be a great mistake of $5.652 to $1 million for the fiscal year rise in opposition to the amendment. judgment to tamper with the BLM for- 1998. This amendment would also in- Mr. Chairman, the committee does estry program. I urge defeat of the crease by $2.1 million dollars the appro- support urban heat island research in amendment. priation for energy conservation pro- the fiscal year 1998 budget at a $700,000 Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance grams. level. And would I point out that the of my time. Specifically, and I wanted the legis- Department has proposed a cool com- Mr. GUTIERREZ. Mr. Chairman, I lative history to reflect my intention, munities concept since 1995, and the yield myself the balance of my time. this funding would be allocated to the committee has directed the Depart- No. 1, just in case the time runs out, Department of Energy’s urban heat is- ment to pursue the program within the Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the land research and highly reflective sur- context of urban heat island research, chairman for not raising a point of faces program. Those programs would which I think you are interested in. order and allowing me to offer this provide technical and scientific assist- The concept of planting trees and amendment, so I want to use my time ance to local communities to assist painting surfaces light colors in urban first to get that out of the way. with planning and implementation of communities to cut down on heat prob- Second, I would like to say that, measures to reduce energy costs for lems and create cool communities is a look, the ‘‘green scissors coalition’’ cooling in public commercial and resi- useful concept, but it is not something have found this program environ- dential buildings. that I think requires a multimillion- mentally and fiscally unsound. Let us July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5087 face it, it helps a lot of large, huge tim- The amendment was rejected. The construction budget for the Park ber companies who are going to con- Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Chairman, I move Service is severely constrained. We tinue to chop down timber regardless to strike the last word. have to address the critical backlog of of those $5.6 million. One of those com- (Mr. GILMAN asked and was given unmet maintenance. I mentioned this panies alone that used this program es- permission to revise and extend his re- before. We have a huge amount of that. timated their gross last year was $1.6 marks.) Because of our backlog of unmet main- billion. We are not talking about small Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in tenance needs, we have had to delay ma and pa operations where this strong support of the provision in this new construction and new construction money is used. They are rather large bill which allocates $8.5 million for the at new units in order to help maintain companies which use this money. acquisition of Sterling Forest lands in and fix what we already have. So rather than allow huge companies southeastern New York State. Mr. SANDERS. While I appreciate to chop down trees on the clean, we As my colleagues may recall, during the very tough decisions faced by the should finally ax a government pro- the 104th Congress, we approved and committee, construction funds are crit- gram that wastes our precious natural the President signed into law the Om- ical for the Marsh-Billings Park. The resources by chopping down those trees nibus Parks bill of 1996. That act dealt funds are needed to construct new rest- in an environmentally dangerous fash- with numerous important public land rooms, visitor orientation space, staff ion that they will do, and with our tax- issues. I was most gratified that the offices, and an art storage facility. act included language protecting Ster- payers’ dollars. They really do not need Without these improvements the park ling Forest, an 18,000-acre parcel of en- the subsidy. We can use it, obviously, will not be able to provide basic visi- vironmentally sensitive and an histori- in our inner cities throughout the Na- tor, museum and administrative serv- tion. cally important piece of land in my ices. And there are 10 programs, and it is congressional district in Orange Coun- The Senate allocation is more gener- good, and the chairman is absolutely ty, NY. ous than the House number. Should the right, there is money, $700,000. But More importantly with the help of Senate provide funds for this project, really we got 10 programs and some of the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], the money. There was more money be- $9 million was appropriated during the can I ask the gentleman to consider fore for these programs. There is less last Congress as a first installment for supporting this construction project? Mr. REGULA. Were the Senate bill to money today and I just wanted it see if the purchase of Sterling Forest. The fund this project and if the other prior- we could get some more money, so I agreement to purchase Sterling Forest ity needs for construction are met, I proposed this amendment. not only represents a commitment by I know that we have agreed to a both the Governors of New York State will give serious consideration to the voice vote, Mr. Chairman, on this, and and the State of New Jersey to protect support of the project. It is a good so I thank the chairman once again for our region’s sensitive lands, but it is project and deserves strong support. I allowing me the opportunity to present also a model which can be replicated do look forward to working closely this amendment. for future public land purchases. Not with the gentleman from Vermont to ensure the successful completion of the b 1900 only have Federal funds been commit- ted to the purchase of Sterling Forest, project. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. SANDERS. I thank the gen- but both New York and New Jersey myself the balance of my time. tleman for the help that he has given have committed $10 million each for its I would only point out that these are us in the past, and I look forward to purchase and the private sector has small, very small companies that do working with him in the future. also committed a significant amount this forestry program in conjunction Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, I move with the BLM. These are not large for this worthy endeavor. Accordingly, I commend the sub- to strike the last word. companies. It is obvious by the amount Mr. Chairman, the amendment that I committee for its efforts in preserving of money involved here. am offering will address a very serious these lands, and I urge my colleagues Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, will the concern that I have with the discharge gentleman yield? to support this important provision. Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I of sewage that has contaminated one of Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- the most recognized and loved land- tleman from Washington. move to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, I would like to use marks in this country. That is the Old Mr. DICKS. I would point out to the Faithful area in Yellowstone National gentleman from Illinois that according this opportunity, if I might, to enter into a colloquy with the gentleman Park. to the Forest Service data, this is true As my colleagues know, Mr. Chair- for BLM, 95 percent of all timber sales from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], the chairman of the subcommittee. I want to thank man, Yellowstone is the Nation’s first in 1996 were purchased by small timber national park. The spectacular beauty companies. In contrast, large timber the gentleman for his support over the years for the Marsh-Billings National and the awesome splendor of this area companies purchased only 5 percent of bring millions of visitors to the park these timber sales. There is a percep- Historic Park in Woodstock, VT. This every year. It saddens me to think that tion out there that this is going to the park, scheduled to open in 1998, is very this outstanding heritage of natural big boys, but they are not involved. It important to Vermont and to others beauty is falling into terrible disrepair, is the small companies that are in- interested in sustainable agriculture. and drastic measures are needed to volved. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, re- gentleman yield? stop this now. Though legislation was claiming my time, I commend the gen- Mr. SANDERS. I yield to the gen- established to include Yellowstone Na- tleman from Chicago for his concern tleman from Ohio. tional Park in a pilot fee program that for his community, and I hope he will Mr. REGULA. I would be very certainly will help the park complete work with the Department of Energy pleased to participate in a colloquy some of the backlog of maintenance, to address his problem. I have to op- with the gentleman from Vermont con- there are some repairs that need to pose this because of the impact it cerning this new unit of the Park Serv- begin immediately. would have on the BLM forestry pro- ice. Congress has increased funding for gram. Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, with the National Park Service 69 percent Mr. GUTIERREZ. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman’s assistance, last year over the last 7 years. During that same the gentleman yield? Congress provided some initial funding time, Yellowstone’s funding has in- Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- for the park, and I am pleased that the creased only about 20 percent, which tleman from Illinois. fiscal year 1998 bill fully meets the has barely kept up with unfunded man- Mr. GUTIERREZ. Just to add one park’s needs for its operating costs. dates and the rate of inflation. What quick word, it is not who is purchasing, However, the bill does not provide the has happened is that the infrastructure it is who is selling the timber. construction funds needed to refurbish in Yellowstone has been severely ne- The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the park’s historic Carriage House. glected. the amendment offered by the gen- Mr. REGULA. The gentleman from In August of this year, I had the op- tleman from Illinois [Mr. GUTIERREZ]. Vermont raises an important issue. portunity to make an extensive tour of H5088 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 the park. During that time I learned a the National Park Service that it is a pended: Provided, That not to exceed $600,000 great deal about the needs of Yellow- priority to address the problems she shall be available for administrative ex- stone and the unfortunate decay which has outlined and it will be in the Presi- penses. has occurred to its infrastructure. dent’s budget in the near future. SERVICE CHARGES, DEPOSITS, AND FORFEITURES Miles of roads along with buildings, Yellowstone is one of the crown jew- For administrative expenses and other water systems are in dire need of not els of the National Park System, and costs related to processing application docu- only repair but replacement. this is one of the unmet maintenance ments and other authorizations for use and My amendment will authorize $5 mil- needs here and elsewhere in the Na- disposal of public lands and resources, for costs of providing copies of official public lion to be dedicated to the replacement tional Park Service that I am very land documents, for monitoring construc- of the Old Faithful wastewater treat- committed to addressing with the tion, operation, and termination of facilities ment facility. No example of degrada- scarce resources that we have. I think in conjunction with use authorizations, and tion on the Yellowstone infrastructure she makes a perfect case for what I for rehabilitation of damaged property, such is more glaring than the degradation of have talked about in the backlog of amounts as may be collected under Public the sewer system at Old Faithful. The unmet maintenance. This is a classic Law 94–579, as amended, and Public Law 93– Old Faithful plant was built over 60 example. We did provide $1.6 million in 153, to remain available until expended: Pro- years ago, in 1930. Then it was redone, additional funds for operations in Yel- vided, That notwithstanding any provision to the contrary of section 305(a) of Public Law refurbished in 1974, and it has not been lowstone because these parks are get- 94–579 (43 U.S.C. 1735(a)), any moneys that touched since then. It is in very bad ting great pressures from public usage. have been or will be received pursuant to disarray. I hope the fee program will also greatly that section, whether as a result of forfeit- Right now there is substantial use of help Yellowstone. ure, compromise, or settlement, if not appro- that facility in the winter months. The parks get to return fee revenue priate for refund pursuant to section 305(c) of When the park was built, it was not de- now, and I know that that will be that Act (43 U.S.C. 1735(c)), shall be available signed for winter use. As a point of in- something that they can use to address and may be expended under the authority of formation, one of the 4 sewers at Norris the very problems the gentlewoman this Act by the Secretary to improve, pro- Campground has already failed and the tect, or rehabilitate any public lands admin- has outlined. As I mentioned earlier, istered through the Bureau of Land Manage- other 3 can fail at any point. Unfortu- the gentlewoman makes a strong case ment which have been damaged by the ac- nately, the sewer system at Old Faith- for what we keep talking about, the tion of a resource developer, purchaser, per- ful is in the same condition. It is right need to address backlogged mainte- mittee, or any unauthorized person, without now polluting the water with sewage nance. We are very sensitive to the regard to whether all moneys collected from from the restrooms. problem. each such action are used on the exact lands The Wyoming Department of Envi- Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, will the damaged which led to the action: Provided ronmental Quality inspected this facil- gentleman yield? further, That any such moneys that are in ex- ity last year and found a number of im- cess of amounts needed to repair damage to Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gentle- the exact land for which funds were collected mediate problems, and they are faced woman from Wyoming. may be used to repair other damaged public with the possibility of closing the Old Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, with that lands. Faithful area. This is extremely alarm- assurance, then I feel I do not need to MISCELLANEOUS TRUST FUNDS ing, knowing that the surrounding offer the amendment at the appro- In addition to amounts authorized to be streams are being contaminated with priate time in the process. expended under existing laws, there is hereby discharge from this plant. Mr. REGULA. I thank the gentle- appropriated such amounts as may be con- The National Park Service has estab- woman. tributed under section 307 of the Act of Octo- lished an internal system of setting The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. ber 21, 1976 (43 U.S.C. 1701), and such amounts funding priorities in the parks. What The Clerk read as follows: as may be advanced for administrative costs, surveys, appraisals, and costs of making con- they do is whatever projects they can OREGON AND CALIFORNIA GRANT LANDS fund fully, that is what they fund. That veyances of omitted lands under section For expenses necessary for management, has helped the small parks, but it has 211(b) of that Act, to remain available until protection, and development of resources and expended. truly hurt the larger parks like Yel- for construction, operation, and mainte- ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS lowstone and Yosemite, because the re- nance of access roads, reforestation, and pairs are very expensive and so they other improvements on the revested Oregon Appropriations for the Bureau of Land are put off. As a matter of fact, there and California Railroad grant lands, on other Management shall be available for purchase, is no line item construction funds for Federal lands in the Oregon and California erection, and dismantlement of temporary land-grant counties of Oregon, and on adja- structures, and alteration and maintenance Yellowstone in either 1998 or in 1999. of necessary buildings and appurtenant fa- Mr. Chairman, this year Yellowstone cent rights-of-way; and acquisition of lands or interests therein including existing con- cilities to which the United States has title; is celebrating its 125th anniversary. In necting roads on or adjacent to such grant up to $100,000 for payments, at the discretion 1872, President Ulysses S. Grant signed lands; $101,406,000, to remain available until of the Secretary, for information or evidence a monumental piece of legislation that expended: Provided, That 25 per centum of concerning violations of laws administered was the start of one of the very best the aggregate of all receipts during the cur- by the Bureau; miscellaneous and emergency ideas in America. That is our National rent fiscal year from the revested Oregon expenses of enforcement activities author- Park System. Today let us assure the and California Railroad grant lands is hereby ized or approved by the Secretary and to be made a charge against the Oregon and Cali- accounted for solely on his certificate, not to American people that they will be able exceed $10,000: Provided, That notwithstand- to continue to enjoy one of the most fornia land-grant fund and shall be trans- ferred to the General Fund in the Treasury ing 44 U.S.C. 501, the Bureau may, under co- popular attractions in the National in accordance with the second paragraph of operative cost-sharing and partnership ar- Park System when they vest Yellow- subsection (b) of title II of the Act of August rangements authorized by law, procure stone National Park this year and in 28, 1937 (50 Stat. 876). printing services from cooperators in con- nection with jointly-produced publications the years to come. RANGE IMPROVEMENTS Mr. Chairman, I respectfully ask my for which the cooperators share the cost of For rehabilitation, protection, and acquisi- printing either in cash or in services, and the colleagues to support this much needed tion of lands and interests therein, and im- amendment so that the problem at the Bureau determines the cooperator is capable provement of Federal rangelands pursuant to of meeting accepted quality standards. Old Faithful wastewater treatment fa- section 401 of the Federal Land Policy and UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICES cility may be addressed immediately. Management Act of 1976 (43 U.S.C. 1701), not- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move withstanding any other Act, sums equal to 50 RESOURCE MANAGEMENT to strike the last word. per centum of all moneys received during the For expenses necessary for scientific and It is my understanding, Mr. Chair- prior fiscal year under sections 3 and 15 of economic studies, conservation, manage- man, that the gentlewoman from Wyo- the Taylor Grazing Act (43 U.S.C. 315 et seq.) ment, investigations, protection, and utiliza- ming intends to withdraw the amend- and the amount designated for range im- tion of fishery and wildlife resources, except provements from grazing fees and mineral whales, seals, and sea lions, and for the per- ment or perhaps not offer it. We have leasing receipts from Bankhead-Jones lands formance of other authorized functions relat- discussed the importance of this transferred to the Department of the Inte- ed to such resources; for the general admin- project. I think she makes a very pow- rior pursuant to law, but not less than istration of the United States Fish and Wild- erful case, and I have been assured by $9,113,000, to remain available until ex- life Service; for maintenance of the herd of July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5089 long-horned cattle on the Wichita Mountains Fund’’, after the dollar amount insert ‘‘(re- and documents of her sister suffrag- Wildlife Refuge; and not less than $1,000,000 duced by $500,000)’’. ettes. for high priority projects within the scope of In title I in the item relating to ‘‘Depart- Mr. Chairman, there is no national the approved budget which shall be carried ment of the Interior—National Park Serv- museum of women’s history in the out by the Youth Conservation Corps as au- ice—Construction’’, after the first dollar thorized by the Act of August 13, 1970, as amount, insert ‘‘(increased by $500,000)’’. United States. The Susan B. Anthony House has filled that void by collecting amended, $591,042,000, to remain available Mrs. MALONEY of New York (during the history of the women’s movement until September 30, 1999, of which $11,612,000 the reading). Mr. Chairman, I ask and preserving it as best they could shall remain available until expended for op- unanimous consent that the amend- eration and maintenance of fishery mitiga- with volunteer labor and donations for ment be considered as read and printed tion facilities constructed by the Corps of the past 47 years. in the RECORD. Engineers under the Lower Snake River Today time, weather, and Band-Aid Compensation Plan, authorized by the Water The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the gentlewoman repairs have taken their toll on this Resources Development Act of 1976, to com- house. The Susan B. Anthony House re- pensate for loss of fishery resources from from New York? water development projects on the Lower There was no objection. cently launched a major initiative to Snake River, and of which not less than Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. finance a complete renovation and res- $2,000,000 shall be provided to local govern- Chairman, I rise today to offer this toration of the property. In addition to ments in southern California for planning as- amendment on behalf of the gentle- needed repairs and maintenance, this sociated with the National Communities woman from New York [Ms. SLAUGH- project will begin the hard task of re- Conservation Planning (NCCP) program and storing the house to its appearance shall remain available until expended, and of TER] who has been called away due to a death in her family. during Miss Anthony’s lifetime. which not to exceed $5,190,000 shall be used Both the house itself and the collec- for implementing subsections (a), (b), (c), The amendment would designate and (e) of section 4 of the Endangered Spe- $500,000 for critically needed repairs tion pose special challenges. Many of cies Act of 1973, as amended. and restoration at the historic Susan the papers are fragile, and special pres- ervation measures must be taken if CONSTRUCTION B. Anthony home in Rochester, NY. they are to survive for the benefit of For construction and acquisition of build- The Susan B. Anthony House witnessed ings and other facilities required in the con- some of the most important moments future generations. No complete cata- servation, management, investigation, pro- of the women’s rights movement. As log has ever been made of the collec- tection, and utilization of fishery and wild- Anthony’s residence for her entire tion. life resources, and the acquisition of lands adult life, the house was the site of This amendment would provide a and interests therein; $40,256,000, to remain many visits and planning meetings be- modest one-time investment of $500,000 available until expended. tween Ms. Anthony and her fellow ac- toward the Susan B. Anthony House NATURAL RESOURCE DAMAGE ASSESSMENT FUND tivists, including abolitionist Fred- restoration project. These funds would To conduct natural resource damage as- erick Douglass. This is also the place be used toward an historic structures sessment activities by the Department of the where Ms. Anthony was arrested for report for the site and some basic phys- Interior necessary to carry out the provi- ical repairs to the house. The historic sions of the Comprehensive Environmental voting in 1872. The Susan B. Anthony House is a structures report is a mandatory docu- Response, Compensation, and Liability Act, ment for all national historic land- as amended (42 U.S.C. 9601, et seq.), Federal vital part of our Nation’s heritage. It is Water Pollution Control Act, as amended (33 part of a complex of sites in upstate marks and provides a sort of baseline U.S.C. 1251, et seq.), the Oil Pollution Act of New York in and around Seneca Falls, for repairs. This report will set the pa- 1990 (Public Law 101–380), and Public law 101– NY, that include the Women’s Rights rameters for restoring the property to 337; $4,128,000, to remain available until ex- National Historical Park and the Na- its appearance during Miss Anthony’s pended: Provided, That under this heading in tional Women’s Hall of Fame, celebrat- lifetime. Public Law 104–134, strike ‘‘in fiscal year 1996 ing the history of the women’s rights The $500,000 provided by this amend- and thereafter’’ in the proviso and insert movement. ment is only a first step toward restor- ‘‘heretofore and hereafter’’, and before the ing the house. The vast majority of the phrase, ‘‘or properties shall be utilized’’ in Next year we will celebrate the 150th such proviso, insert ‘‘, to remain available anniversary of the first women’s rights funds needed will be supplied through until expended,’’. convention in Seneca Falls. In terms of private donors and contributors. This amount is a modest contribution by LAND ACQUISITION the women’s movement, the women’s the Federal Government to express our For expenses necessary to carry out the rights convention in Seneca Falls is Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of considered the most important single support for this vitally important piece 1965, as amended (16 U.S.C. 4601–4–11), includ- event making the struggle for women’s of our Nation’s history. ing administrative expenses, and for acquisi- rights possible. Just 2 weeks ago, we This amendment is the very least our tion of land or waters, or interest therein, in held a ceremony here in Congress mov- Government can do to show the impor- accordance with statutory authority applica- ing a statue of two of the organizers of tance of the Susan B. Anthony House ble to the United States Fish and Wildlife that convention as well as Susan B. and the women’s rights movement in Service, $53,000,000, to remain available until our history. The amendment would off- expended. Anthony herself into the Capitol ro- tunda. These women are finally taking set this $500,000 by deducting the same COOPERATIVE ENDANGERED SPECIES amount from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife CONSERVATION FUND their rightful place as important lead- ers in our Nation’s history. Service’s wildlife and refuge account. For expenses necessary to carry out the The amendment represents only 1.7 b provisions of the Endangered Species Act of 1915 percent of the $29 million increase 1973 (16 U.S.C. 1531–1543), as amended, Next year many leaders in our Na- $14,000,000, for grants to States, to be derived granted by the committee over the ad- from the Cooperative Endangered Species tion will come together for this histori- ministration’s request for this account. Conservation Fund, and to remain available cal anniversary for a year’s worth of It is a minuscule 0.18 percent of the ac- until expended. events on women’s history, rights and count’s total appropriation of $274 mil- NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE FUND suffrage. Celebrate 98 will educate and lion. For expenses necessary to implement the inspire the State of New York and our The CHAIRMAN. The time of the Act of October 17, 1978 (16 U.S.C. 715s), entire Nation with the story of the gentlewoman from New York [Mrs. $10,000,000. women’s rights struggle. MALONEY] has expired. AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MRS. MALONEY OF What is important to realize and put (By unanimous consent, Mrs. NEW YORK into context is that the Susan B. An- MALONEY of New York was allowed to Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. thony House is not only a national his- proceed for 1 additional minute.) Chairman, I offer an amendment. toric landmark but a critical part of Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. The Clerk read as follows: our Nation’s history. It is not only a Chairman, the committee noted that Amendment offered by Mrs. MALONEY of museum of Miss Anthony’s pictures this generous increase was to be used New York: In title I in the item relating to and papers, along with her trademark toward preparations for the National ‘‘Department of the Interior—U.S. Fish and wire-rimmed glasses and Quaker shawl, Wildlife Refuge System’s 100th anni- Wildlife Service—National Wildlife Refuge but hundreds of pictures and papers versary in the year 2003. Therefore it H5090 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 only seems appropriate to use some of of the National Park Service and in The question was taken; and the this funding, considering that the light of the fact that we have the mil- Chairman announced that the noes ap- Susan B. Anthony House will be a lions of designated historic structures peared to have it. major attraction during the 150th anni- that have similar needs. Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. versary of the first women’s rights con- Mr. Chairman, I respect the fact that Chairman, I demand a recorded vote, vention in Seneca Falls next year. Susan B. Anthony played an enor- and pending that I make the point of Surely if we can prepare for the Wild- mously important role in this Nation’s order that a quorum is not present. life Refuge System’s centennial 5 years history, but nevertheless I think it The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House away, we can provide some small would be an unwise policy to invade Resolution 181, further proceedings on amount of money in commemoration the funds that we now have for Fish the amendment offered by the gentle- of women’s rights. and Wildlife Service resource manage- woman from New York [Mrs. MALONEY] Would we let Mount Vernon or Mon- ment, and in light of this I regrettably will be postponed. ticello fall to pieces? Certainly not. have to urge the Members to vote no The point of no quorum is considered Susan B. Anthony was a pioneer for on this amendment. withdrawn. women’s rights including the right to Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. vote, to own property, and to partici- Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to The Clerk read as follows: pate as equal partners in our democ- strike the last word to respond. REWARDS AND OPERATIONS racy and our society. Susan B. An- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the gentlewoman For expenses necessary to carry out the thony revolutionized the lives of half provisions of the African Elephant Conserva- our Nation’s population. Surely she de- from New York? tion Act (16 U.S.C. 4201–4203, 4211–4213, 4221– There was no objection. serves no less than our full support. 4225, 4241–4245, and 1538), $1,000,000, to remain Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. available until expended. This amendment does not attempt to Chairman, I certainly appreciate the provide full support, but merely a NORTH AMERICAN WETLANDS CONSERVATION chairman’s concerns for the underlying FUND token for the restoring renovation. budget restraints, but I wanted to I really would like to ask for a re- For expenses necessary to carry out the point out that before us today and in- corded vote on this. provisions of the North American Wetlands cluded in the budget are two national Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I rise in Conservation Act, Public Law 101–233, as historic landmarks which are already opposition to the amendment offered amended, $10,500,000, to remain available in the bill, and given the pressing point until expended. by the gentlewoman from New York. that the gentlewoman from New York I want to say, first of all, we extend RHINOCEROS AND TIGER CONSERVATION FUND [Ms. SLAUGHTER] has made over and our sympathy to the gentlewoman For deposit to the Rhinoceros and Tiger over again, that there is no national from New York [Ms. SLAUGHTER] on the Conservation Fund, $400,000, to remain avail- women’s museum in this country and able until expended, to carry out the Rhinoc- death of her sister, and I think I speak that the Susan B. Anthony home has eros and Tiger Conservation Act of 1994 (Pub- for all the Members in that respect. I served as such a museum in gathering lic Law 103–391). appreciate the gentlewoman from New the materials, the history of the wom- WILDLIFE CONSERVATION AND APPRECIATION York [Mrs. MALONEY] handling this en’s movement of the country, it is cer- FUND matter for her. tainly deserving, and I appreciate the For deposit to the Wildlife Conservation Mr. Chairman, we have over a million gentleman’s concerns, but I certainly and Appreciation Fund, $800,000, to remain structures on the National Register of wanted to point out that Ohio and available until expended. historic places, and all of them have a Maryland have two items in the bill, ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS very deserved place in this Nation’s and we were hoping that given the fact Appropriations and funds available to the history. But we have a backlog of $500 of two historical landmarks in the bill, United States Fish and Wildlife Service shall million in refuges maintenance which that the gentleman would consider this be available for purchase of not to exceed 108 this amendment would further exacer- additional historic landmark given the passenger motor vehicles, of which 92 are for bate. fact that there is no women’s museum replacement only (including 57 for police- Mr. Chairman, this project is not type use); not to exceed $400,000 for payment, in this country. within a unit of the National Park sys- at the discretion of the Secretary, for infor- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the mation, rewards, or evidence concerning vio- tem, and what we have tried to do here gentlewoman yield? in this bill is take care of what we have lations of laws administered by the Service, Mrs. MALONEY of New York. I yield and miscellaneous and emergency expenses rather than starting new programs. to the gentleman from Ohio. of enforcement activities, authorized or ap- The Park Service has advised us, in Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I under- proved by the Secretary and to be accounted fact, that they cannot even spend these stand what the gentlewoman is saying, for solely on his certificate; repair of damage funds without specific legislative lan- but I would point out that the two that to public roads within and adjacent to res- guage authorizing the project. And as I she refers to, one is a President of the ervation areas caused by operations of the pointed out earlier, we have a $14 bil- United States, and the State is putting Service; options for the purchase of land at not to exceed $1 for each option; facilities in- lion backlog of maintenance projects. I in a lot of money. What we are putting will not recite all of those again, but cident to such public recreational uses on in is a small amount. The other is a conservation areas as are consistent with even in the Fish and Wildlife Service project of the gentleman from Mary- their primary purpose; and the maintenance we are faced with a $500 million back- land [Mr. HOYER], and again the State and improvement of aquaria, buildings, and log. And if we were to adopt this of Maryland is putting in a lot of other facilities under the jurisdiction of the amendment, we would offset it by de- money. Service and to which the United States has creasing Fish and Wildlife Service re- I do not think there has been any in- title, and which are utilized pursuant to law source management by an equal dication here that there is any money in connection with management and inves- amount of $500,000, and with the back- being proposed by the State or any tigation of fish and wildlife resources: Pro- log that exists in these facilities it vided, That notwithstanding 44 U.S.C. 501, other entity to support this, that the the Service may, under cooperative cost would be a very unjustified policy deci- total cost that is being proposed would sharing and partnership arrangements au- sion to make this action. be Federal, and I think perhaps the thorized by law, procure printing services We had almost a hundred Members of gentlewoman from New York [Ms. from cooperators in connection with jointly- Congress write to the committee in SLAUGHTER] would like in the future to produced publications for which the coopera- support of increased funding for the find some matching funds that would tors share at least one-half the cost of print- refuge system, and we could not answer make this kind of a project more at- ing either in cash or services and the Service a lot of those, we could not respond to tractive. determines the cooperator is capable of a lot of those simply because we do not Mr. Chairman, I would still urge a meeting accepted quality standards: Provided have enough money. So I think, as a further, That the Service may accept donated vote of ‘‘no’’ on this amendment. aircraft as replacements for existing air- matter of policy, it simply does not fit The CHAIRMAN. The question is on craft: Provided further, That notwithstanding to take $500,000 out of the Fish and the amendment offered by the gentle- any other provision of law, the Secretary of Wildlife Service to do this, particularly woman from New York [Mrs. the Interior may not spend any of the funds in light of the fact that it is not a unit MALONEY). appropriated in this Act for the purchase of July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5091 lands or interests in lands to be used in the $129,000,000, to be derived from the Land and ological research activity shall be used to establishment of any new unit of the Na- Water Conservation Fund, to remain avail- conduct new surveys on private property, un- tional Wildlife Refuge System unless the able until expended, of which $1,000,000 is to less specifically authorized in writing by the purchase is approved in advance by the administer the State assistance program: property owner: Provided further, That no House and Senate Committees on Appropria- Provided, That any funds made available for part of this appropriation shall be used to tions in compliance with the reprogramming the purpose of acquisition of the Elwha and pay more than one-half the cost of topo- procedures contained in the report accom- Glines dams shall be used solely for acquisi- graphic mapping or water resources data col- panying this bill: Provided further, That the tion, and shall not be expended until the full lection and investigations carried on in co- Secretary may sell land and interests in purchase amount has been appropriated by operation with States and municipalities. land, other than water rights, acquired in the Congress: Provided further, That of the ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS conformance with subsections 206(a) and funds provided herein, $8,500,000 is available The amount appropriated for the United 207(c) of Public Law 101–816, the receipts of for acquisition of the Sterling Forest. States Geological Survey shall be available which shall be deposited to the Lahontan ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS for the purchase of not to exceed 53 pas- Valley and Pyramid Lake Fish and Wildlife Appropriations for the National Park Serv- senger motor vehicles, of which 48 are for re- Fund and used exclusively for the purposes ice shall be available for the purchase of not placement only; reimbursement to the Gen- of such subsections, without regard to the to exceed 396 passenger motor vehicles, of eral Services Administration for security limitation on the distribution of benefits in which 302 shall be for replacement only, in- guard services; contracting for the furnish- subsection 206(f)(2) of such law. cluding not to exceed 315 for police-type use, ing of topographic maps and for the making NATIONAL PARK SERVICE 13 buses, and 6 ambulances: Provided, That of geophysical or other specialized surveys OPERATION OF THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM none of the funds appropriated to the Na- when it is administratively determined that For expenses necessary for the manage- tional Park Service may be used to process such procedures are in the public interest; ment, operation, and maintenance of areas any grant or contract documents which do construction and maintenance of necessary and facilities administered by the National not include the text of 18 U.S.C. 1913: Pro- buildings and appurtenant facilities; acquisi- Park Service (including special road mainte- vided further, That none of the funds appro- tion of lands for gauging stations and obser- nance service to trucking permittees on a re- priated to the National Park Service may be vation wells; expenses of the United States imbursable basis), and for the general admin- used to implement an agreement for the re- National Committee on Geology; and pay- istration of the National Park Service, in- development of the southern end of Ellis Is- ment of compensation and expenses of per- cluding not to exceed $2,500,000 for the Vol- land until such agreement has been submit- sons on the rolls of the Survey duly ap- unteers-in-Parks program, and not less than ted to the Congress and shall not be imple- pointed to represent the United States in the $1,000,000 for high priority projects within mented prior to the expiration of 30 calendar negotiation and administration of interstate the scope of the approved budget which shall days (not including any day in which either compacts: Provided, That activities funded be carried out by the Youth Conservation House of Congress is not in session because by appropriations herein made may be ac- Corps as authorized by 16 U.S.C. 1706, of adjournment of more than three calendar complished through the use of contracts, $1,232,325,000, of which $12,800,000 for re- days to a day certain) from the receipt by grants, or cooperative agreements as defined search, planning and interagency coordina- the Speaker of the House of Representatives in 31 U.S.C. 6302, et seq.: Provided further, tion in support of land acquisition for Ever- and the President of the Senate of a full and That the USGS may contract directly with glades restoration shall remain available comprehensive report on the development of individuals or indirectly with institutions or until expended, and of which not to exceed the southern end of Ellis Island, including nonprofit organizations, without regard to $72,000,000, to remain available until ex- the facts and circumstances relied upon in section 41 U.S.C. 5, for the temporary or pended, is to be derived from the special fee support of the proposed project. intermittent services of science students or account established pursuant to title V, sec- None of the funds in this Act may be spent recent graduates, who shall be considered tion 5201, Public Law 100–203. by the National Park Service for activities employees for the purposes of chapter 81 of taken in direct response to the United Na- title 5, United States Code, relating to com- NATIONAL RECREATION AND PRESERVATION tions Biodiversity Convention. pensation for work injuries, and chapter 171 For expenses necessary to carry out recre- The National Park Service may distribute of title 28, United States Code, relating to ation programs, natural programs, cultural to operating units based on the safety record tort claims, but shall not be considered to be programs, heritage partnership programs, of each unit the costs of programs designed Federal employees for any other purposes. environmental compliance and review, inter- to improve workplace and employee safety, MINERALS MANAGEMENT SERVICE national park affairs, statutory or contrac- and to encourage employees receiving work- ROYALTY AND OFFSHORE MINERALS tual aid for other activities, and grant ad- ers’ compensation benefits pursuant to chap- MANAGEMENT ministration, not otherwise provided for, ter 81 of title 5, United States Code, to re- $43,934,000, of which $4,500,000 is for grants to turn to appropriate positions for which they For expenses necessary for minerals leas- Heritage areas in accordance with Titles I– are medically able. ing and environmental studies, regulation of VI and VIII–IX, Division II of Public Law industry operations, and collection of royal- UNITED STATES GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 104–333 and is to remain available until Sep- ties, as authorized by law; for enforcing laws tember 30, 1999. SURVEYS, INVESTIGATIONS, AND RESEARCH and regulations applicable to oil, gas, and HISTORIC PRESERVATION FUND For expenses necessary for the United other minerals leases, permits, licenses and For expenses necessary in carrying out the States Geological Survey to perform sur- operating contracts; and for matching grants Historic Preservation Act of 1966, as amend- veys, investigations, and research covering or cooperative agreements; including the ed (16 U.S.C. 470), and the Omnibus Parks and topography, geology, hydrology, and the purchase of not to exceed eight passenger Public Lands Management Act of 1996 (Pub- mineral and water resources of the United motor vehicles for replacement only; lic Law 104–333), $40,412,000, to be derived States, its Territories and possessions, and $139,621,000, of which not less than $70,874,000 from the Historic Preservation Fund, to re- other areas as authorized by 43 U.S.C. 31, 1332 shall be available for royalty management main available until September 30, 1999. and 1340; classify lands as to their mineral activities; and an amount not to exceed and water resources; give engineering super- $65,000,000 for activities within the Outer CONSTRUCTION vision to power permittees and Federal En- Continental Shelf (OCS) Lands Program, to For construction, improvements, repair or ergy Regulatory Commission licensees; ad- be credited to this appropriation and to re- replacement of physical facilities minister the minerals exploration program main available until expended, from addi- $148,391,000, to remain available until ex- (30 U.S.C. 641); and publish and disseminate tions to receipts resulting from increases to pended: Provided, That $500,000 for the Ruth- data relative to the foregoing activities; and rates in effect on August 5, 1993, from rate erford B. Hayes Home and $600,000 for the to conduct inquiries into the economic con- increases to fee collections for OCS adminis- Sotterly Plantation House shall be derived ditions affecting mining and materials proc- trative activities performed by the Minerals from the Historic Preservation Fund pursu- essing industries (30 U.S.C. 3, 21a, and 1603; 50 Management Service over and above the ant to 16 U.S.C. 470A. U.S.C. 98g(1)) and related purposes as author- rates in effect on September 30, 1993, and LAND AND WATER CONSERVATION FUND ized by law and to publish and disseminate from additional fees for OCS administrative (RESCISSION) data; $755,795,000 of which $66,231,000 shall be activities established after September 30, available only for cooperation with States or 1993: Provided, That $1,500,000 for computer The contract authority provided for fiscal municipalities for water resources investiga- acquisitions shall remain available until year 1998 by 16 U.S.C. 460l–10a is rescinded. tions; and of which $16,400,000 shall remain September 30, 1999: Provided further, That LAND ACQUISITION AND STATE ASSISTANCE available until expended for conducting in- funds appropriated under this Act shall be For expenses necessary to carry out the quiries into the economic conditions affect- available for the payment of interest in ac- Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of ing mining and materials processing indus- cordance with 30 U.S.C. 1721 (b) and (d): Pro- 1965, as amended (16 U.S.C. 460l–4–11), includ- tries; and of which $147,794,000 shall be avail- vided further, That not to exceed $3,000 shall ing administrative expenses, and for acquisi- able until September 30, 1999 for the biologi- be available for reasonable expenses related tion of lands or waters, or interest therein, cal research activity and the operation of to promoting volunteer beach and marine in accordance with statutory authority ap- the Cooperative Research Units: Provided, cleanup activities: Provided further, That plicable to the National Park Service, That none of these funds provided for the bi- notwithstanding any other provision of law, H5092 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 $15,000 under this head shall be available for mental restoration related to treatment or ments, or grants obligated during fiscal refunds of overpayments in connection with abatement of acid mine drainage from aban- years 1998 and 1999, as authorized by the In- certain Indian leases in which the Director doned mines: Provided further, That such dian Self-Determination Act of 1975, or of the Minerals Management Service con- projects must be consistent with the pur- grants authorized by the Indian Education curred with the claimed refund due, to pay poses and priorities of the Surface Mining Amendments of 1988 (25 U.S.C. 2001 and amounts owed to Indian allottees or Tribes, Control and Reclamation Act: Provided fur- 2008A) shall remain available until expended or to correct prior unrecoverable erroneous ther, That the State of Maryland may set by the contractor or grantee: Provided fur- payments. aside the greater of $1,000,000 or 10 percent of ther, That to provide funding uniformity OIL SPILL RESEARCH the total of the grants made available to the within a Self-Governance Compact, any State under title IV of the Surface Mining For necessary expenses to carry out title I, funds provided in this Act with availability Control and Reclamation Act of 1977, as section 1016, title IV, sections 4202 and 4303, for more than two years may be repro- amended (30 U.S.C. 1231 et seq.), if the title VII, and title VIII, section 8201 of the grammed to two year availability but shall amount set aside is deposited in an acid mine Oil Pollution Act of 1990, $6,118,000, which remain available within the Compact until drainage abatement and treatment fund es- shall be derived from the Oil Spill Liability expended: Provided further, That notwith- tablished under a State law, pursuant to Trust Fund, to remain available until ex- standing any other provision of law, Indian which law the amount (together with all in- pended. tribal governments may, by appropriate terest earned on the amount) is expended by changes in eligibility criteria or by other OFFICE OF SURFACE MINING RECLAMATION AND the State to undertake acid mine drainage means, change eligibility for general assist- ENFORCEMENT abatement and treatment projects, except ance or change the amount of general assist- REGULATION AND TECHNOLOGY that before any amounts greater than 10 per- ance payments for individuals within the For necessary expenses to carry out the cent of its title IV grants are deposited in an service area of such tribe who are otherwise provisions of the Surface Mining Control and acid mine drainage abatement and treat- deemed eligible for general assistance pay- Reclamation Act of 1977, Public Law 95–87, as ment fund, the State of Maryland must first ments so long as such changes are applied in amended, including the purchase of not to complete all Surface Mining Control and a consistent manner to individuals similarly exceed 10 passenger motor vehicles, for re- Reclamation Act priority one projects. situated: Provided further, That any savings placement only; $94,937,000, and notwith- BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS realized by such changes shall be available standing 31 U.S.C. 3302, an additional amount OPERATION OF INDIAN PROGRAMS for use in meeting other priorities of the shall be credited to this account, to remain For operation of Indian programs by direct tribes: Provided further, That any net in- available until expended, from performance expenditure, contracts, cooperative agree- crease in costs to the Federal Government bond forfeitures in fiscal year 1998: Provided, ments, compacts, and grants including ex- which result solely from tribally increased That the Secretary of the Interior, pursuant penses necessary to provide education and payment levels for general assistance shall to regulations, may utilize directly or welfare services for Indians, either directly be met exclusively from funds available to through grants to States, moneys collected or in cooperation with States and other or- the tribe from within its tribal priority allo- in fiscal year 1998 for civil penalties assessed ganizations, including payment of care, tui- cation: Provided further, That any forestry under section 518 of the Surface Mining Con- tion, assistance, and other expenses of Indi- funds allocated to a tribe which remain un- trol and Reclamation Act of 1977 (30 U.S.C. ans in boarding homes, or institutions, or obligated as of September 30, 1998, may be 1268), to reclaim lands adversely affected by schools; grants and other assistance to needy transferred during fiscal year 1999 to an In- coal mining practices after August 3, 1977, to Indians; maintenance of law and order; man- dian forest land assistance account estab- remain available until expended: Provided agement, development, improvement, and lished for the benefit of such tribe within the further, That appropriations for the Office of protection of resources and appurtenant fa- tribe’s trust fund account: Provided further, Surface Mining Reclamation and Enforce- cilities under the jurisdiction of the Bureau, That any such unobligated balances not so ment may provide for the travel and per including payment of irrigation assessments transferred shall expire on September 30, diem expenses of State and tribal personnel and charges; acquisition of water rights; ad- 1999: Provided further, That notwithstanding attending Office of Surface Mining Reclama- vances for Indian industrial and business en- any other provision of law, no funds avail- tion and Enforcement sponsored training. terprises; operation of Indian arts and crafts able to the Bureau, other than the amounts ABANDONED MINE RECLAMATION FUND shops and museums; development of Indian provided herein for assistance to public For necessary expenses to carry out title arts and crafts, as authorized by law; for the schools under 25 U.S.C. 452 et seq., shall be IV of the Surface Mining Control and Rec- general administration of the Bureau, in- available to support the operation of any ele- lamation Act of 1977, Public Law 95–87, as cluding such expenses in field offices; main- mentary or secondary school in the State of amended, including the purchase of not more taining of Indian reservation roads as de- Alaska in fiscal year 1998: Provided further, than 10 passenger motor vehicles for replace- fined in 23 U.S.C. 101; and construction, re- That funds made available in this or any ment only, $179,624,000, to be derived from re- pair, and improvement of Indian housing, other Act for expenditure through Septem- ceipts of the Abandoned Mine Reclamation $1,526,815,000, to remain available until Sep- ber 30, 1999 for schools funded by the Bureau Fund and to remain available until ex- tember 30, 1999 except as otherwise provided shall be available only to the schools in the pended; of which up to $5,000,000 shall be for herein, of which not to exceed $93,825,000 Bureau school system as of September 1, supplemental grants to States for the rec- shall be for welfare assistance payments and 1996: Provided further, That no funds avail- lamation of abandoned sites with acid mine not to exceed $105,829,000 shall be for pay- able to the Bureau shall be used to support rock drainage from coal mines through the ments to tribes and tribal organizations for expanded grades for any school or dormitory Appalachian Clean Streams Initiative: Pro- contract support costs associated with ongo- beyond the grade structure in place or ap- vided, That grants to minimum program ing contracts or grants or compacts entered proved by the Secretary of the Interior at States will be $1,500,000 per State in fiscal into with the Bureau prior to fiscal year 1998, each school in the Bureau school system as year 1998: Provided further, That of the funds as authorized by the Indian Self-Determina- of October 1, 1995: Provided further, That be- herein provided up to $18,000,000 may be used tion Act of 1975, as amended, and up to ginning in fiscal year 1998 and thereafter and for the emergency program authorized by $5,000,000 shall be for the Indian Self-Deter- notwithstanding 25 U.S.C. 2012(h)(1)(B), when section 410 of Public Law 95–87, as amended, mination Fund, which shall be available for the rates of basic compensation for teachers of which no more than 25 per centum shall be the transitional cost of initial or expanded and counselors at Bureau-operated schools used for emergency reclamation projects in tribal contracts, grants, compacts, or coop- are established at the rates of basic com- any one State and funds for federally-admin- erative agreements with the Bureau under pensation applicable to comparable positions istered emergency reclamation projects such Act; and of which not to exceed in overseas schools under the Defense De- under this proviso shall not exceed $374,290,000 for school operations costs of Bu- partment Overseas Teachers Pay and Person- $11,000,000: Provided further, That prior year reau-funded schools and other education pro- nel Practices Act, such rates shall become unobligated funds appropriated for the emer- grams shall become available on July 1, 1998, effective with the start of the next academic gency reclamation program shall not be sub- and shall remain available until September year following the issuance of the Depart- ject to the 25 per centum limitation per 30, 1999; and of which not to exceed $59,775,000 ment of Defense salary schedule and shall State and may be used without fiscal year shall remain available until expended for not be effected retroactively: Provided fur- limitation for emergency projects: Provided housing improvement, road maintenance, at- ther, That the Cibecue Community School further, That pursuant to Public Law 97–365, torney fees, litigation support, self-govern- may use prior year school operations funds the Department of the Interior is authorized ance grants, the Indian Self-Determination for the construction of a new high school fa- to use up to 20 per centum from the recovery Fund, land records improvements and the cility which is in compliance with 25 U.S.C. of the delinquent debt owed to the United Navajo-Hopi Settlement Program: Provided, 2005(a) provided that any additional con- States Government to pay for contracts to That tribes and tribal contractors may use struction costs for replacement of such fa- collect these debts: Provided further, That their tribal priority allocations for unmet cilities begun with prior year funds shall be funds made available to States under title IV indirect costs of ongoing contracts, grants or completed exclusively with non-Federal of Public Law 95–87 may be used, at their dis- compact agreements and for unmet welfare funds. cretion, for any required non-Federal share assistance costs: Provided further, That funds CONSTRUCTION of the cost of projects funded by the Federal made available to tribes and tribal organiza- For construction, major repair, and im- Government for the purpose of environ- tions through contracts, compact agree- provement of irrigation and power systems, July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5093 buildings, utilities, and other facilities, in- ther, That these funds are available to sub- cluding management and vocational edu- cluding architectural and engineering serv- sidize total loan principal, any part of which cation training), and project-specific mainte- ices by contract; acquisition of lands, and in- is to be guaranteed, not to exceed $34,615,000. nance (with territorial participation and terests in lands; and preparation of lands for In addition, for administrative expenses to cost sharing to be determined by the Sec- farming, and for construction of the Navajo carry out the guaranteed loan programs, retary based on the individual territory’s Indian Irrigation Project pursuant to Public $500,000. commitment to timely maintenance of its Law 87–483, $110,751,000, to remain available ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS capital assets): Provided further, That any ap- until expended: Provided, That such amounts Appropriations for the Bureau of Indian propriation for disaster assistance under this as may be available for the construction of Affairs (except the revolving fund for loans, head in this Act or previous appropriations the Navajo Indian Irrigation Project may be the Indian loan guarantee and insurance Acts may be used as non-Federal matching transferred to the Bureau of Reclamation: fund, the Technical Assistance of Indian En- funds for the purpose of hazard mitigation Provided further, That not to exceed 6 per terprises account, the Indian Direct Loan grants provided pursuant to section 404 of centum of contract authority available to Program account, and the Indian Guaranteed the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and the Bureau of Indian Affairs from the Fed- Loan Program account) shall be available for Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5170c). eral Highway Trust Fund may be used to COMPACT OF FREE ASSOCIATION cover the road program management costs of expenses of exhibits, and purchase of not to the Bureau: Provided further, That any funds exceed 229 passenger motor vehicles, of For economic assistance and necessary ex- provided for the Safety of Dams program which not to exceed 187 shall be for replace- penses for the Federated States of Microne- pursuant to 25 U.S.C. 13 shall be made avail- ment only. sia and the Republic of the Marshall Islands able on a non-reimbursable basis: Provided Notwithstanding any other provision of as provided for in sections 122, 221, 223, 232, further, That for fiscal year 1998, in imple- law, no funds available to the Bureau of In- and 233 of the Compact of Free Association, menting new construction or facilities im- dian Affairs for central office operations or and for economic assistance and necessary provement and repair project grants in ex- pooled overhead general administration shall expenses for the Republic of Palau as pro- cess of $100,000 that are provided to tribally be available for tribal contracts, grants, vided for in sections 122, 221, 223, 232, and 233 controlled grant schools under Public Law compacts, or cooperative agreements with of the Compact of Free Association, 100–297, as amended, the Secretary of the In- the Bureau of Indian Affairs under the provi- $20,445,000, to remain available until ex- terior shall use the Administrative and sions of the Indian Self-Determination Act pended, as authorized by Public Law 99–239 Audit Requirements and Cost Principles for or the Tribal Self-Governance Act of 1994 and Public Law 99–658. Assistance Programs contained in 43 CFR (Public Law 103–413). DEPARTMENTAL MANAGEMENT part 12 as the regulatory requirements: Pro- DEPARTMENTAL OFFICES SALARIES AND EXPENSES vided further, That such grants shall not be INSULAR AFFAIRS For necessary expenses for management of subject to section 12.61 of 43 CFR; the Sec- ASSISTANCE TO TERRITORIES the Department of the Interior, $58,286,000, of retary and the grantee shall negotiate and which not to exceed $8,500 may be for official determine a schedule of payments for the For expenses necessary for assistance to reception and representation expenses, and work to be performed: Provided further, That territories under the jurisdiction of the De- of which up to $1,200,000 shall be available for in considering applications, the Secretary partment of the Interior, $68,214,000, of which workers compensation payments and unem- shall consider whether the Indian tribe or (1) $64,365,000 shall be available until ex- ployment compensation payments associated tribal organization would be deficient in as- pended for technical assistance, including with the orderly closure of the United States suring that the construction projects con- maintenance assistance, disaster assistance, Bureau of Mines. form to applicable building standards and insular management controls, and brown codes and Federal, tribal, or State health tree snake control and research; grants to OFFICE OF THE SOLICITOR and safety standards as required by 25 U.S.C. the judiciary in American Samoa for com- SALARIES AND EXPENSES pensation and expenses, as authorized by law 2005(a), with respect to organizational and fi- For necessary expenses of the Office of the (48 U.S.C. 1661(c)); grants to the Government nancial management capabilities: Provided Solicitor, $35,443,000. of American Samoa, in addition to current further, That if the Secretary declines an ap- OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL plication, the Secretary shall follow the re- local revenues, for construction and support quirements contained in 25 U.S.C. 2505(f): of governmental functions; grants to the SALARIES AND EXPENSES Provided further, That any disputes between Government of the Virgin Islands as author- For necessary expenses of the Office of In- the Secretary and any grantee concerning a ized by law; grants to the Government of spector General, $24,439,000. Guam, as authorized by law; and grants to grant shall be subject to the disputes provi- NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMMISSION sion in 25 U.S.C. 2508(e). the Government of the Northern Mariana Is- lands as authorized by law (Public Law 94– SALARIES AND EXPENSES INDIAN LAND AND WATER CLAIM SETTLEMENTS 241; 90 Stat. 272); and (2) $3,849,000 shall be For necessary expenses of the National In- AND MISCELLANEOUS PAYMENTS TO INDIANS available for salaries and expenses of the Of- dian Gaming Commission, pursuant to Pub- For miscellaneous payments to Indian fice of Insular Affairs: Provided, That all fi- lic Law 100–497, $1,000,000. tribes and individuals and for necessary ad- nancial transactions of the territorial and OFFICE OF SPECIAL TRUSTEE FOR AMERICAN ministrative expenses, $41,352,000, to remain local governments herein provided for, in- INDIANS available until expended; of which $40,500,000 cluding such transactions of all agencies or FEDERAL TRUST PROGRAMS shall be available for implementation of en- instrumentalities established or utilized by For operation of trust programs for Indi- acted Indian land and water claim settle- such governments, may be audited by the ans by direct expenditure, contracts, cooper- ments pursuant to Public Laws 101–618, 102– General Accounting Office, at its discretion, ative agreements, compacts, and grants, 374, 102–575, and for implementation of other in accordance with chapter 35 of title 31, $32,126,000, to remain available until ex- enacted water rights settlements, including United States Code: Provided further, That pended for trust funds management: Pro- not to exceed $8,000,000, which shall be for Northern Mariana Islands Covenant grant vided, That funds for trust management im- the Federal share of the Catawba Indian funding shall be provided according to those provements may be transferred to the Bu- Tribe of South Carolina Claims Settlement, terms of the Agreement of the Special Rep- reau of Indian Affairs: Provided further, That as authorized by section 5(a) of Public Law resentatives on Future United States Finan- funds made available to tribes and tribal or- 103–116; and of which $852,000 shall be avail- cial Assistance for the Northern Mariana Is- ganizations through contracts or grants obli- able pursuant to Public Laws 99–264 and 100– lands approved by Public Law 99–396, or any gated during fiscal year 1998, as authorized 580: Provided, That the Secretary is directed subsequent legislation related to Common- by the Indian Self-Determination Act of 1975 to sell land and interests in land, other than wealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (25 U.S.C. 450 et seq.), shall remain available water rights, acquired in conformance with grant funding: Provided further, That of the until expended by the contractor or grantee: section 2 of the Truckee River Water Quality amounts provided for technical assistance, Provided further, That notwithstanding any Settlement Agreement, the receipts of which sufficient funding shall be made available for other provision of law, the statute of limita- shall be deposited to the Lahontan Valley a grant to the Close Up Foundation: Provided tions shall not commence to run on any and Pyramid Lake Fish and Wildlife Fund, further, That the funds for the program of op- claim, including any claim in litigation and be available for the purposes of section 2 erations and maintenance improvement are pending on the date of this Act, concerning of such Agreement, without regard to the appropriated to institutionalize routine op- losses to or mismanagement of trust funds, limitation on the distribution of benefits in erations and maintenance improvement of until the affected tribe or individual Indian the second sentence of paragraph 206(f)(2) of capital infrastructure in American Samoa, has been furnished with an accounting of Public Law 101–618. Guam, the Virgin Islands, the Common- such funds from which the beneficiary can INDIAN GUARANTEED LOAN PROGRAM ACCOUNT wealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, the determine whether there has been a loss. For the cost of guaranteed loans, $4,500,000, Republic of Palau, the Republic of the Mar- as authorized by the Indian Financing Act of shall Islands, and the Federated States of ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS 1974, as amended: Provided, That such costs, Micronesia through assessments of long- There is hereby authorized for acquisition including the cost of modifying such loans, range operations maintenance needs, im- from available resources within the Working shall be as defined in section 502 of the Con- proved capability of local operations and Capital Fund, 15 aircraft, 10 of which shall be gressional Budget Act of 1974: Provided fur- maintenance institutions and agencies (in- for replacement and which may be obtained H5094 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 by donation, purchase or through available propriation which must be requested as tions, and tribal consortia pursuant to the excess surplus property: Provided, That not- promptly as possible: Provided further, That Indian Self-Determination and Education withstanding any other provision of law, ex- such replenishment funds shall be used to re- Assistance Act (25 U.S.C. 450, et seq.) may be isting aircraft being replaced may be sold, imburse, on a pro rata basis, accounts from invested by the Indian tribe, tribal organiza- with proceeds derived or trade-in value used which emergency funds were transferred. tion, or consortium before such funds are ex- to offset the purchase price for the replace- SEC. 103. Appropriations made in this title pended for the purposes of the grant, com- ment aircraft: Provided further, That no pro- shall be available for operation of ware- pact, or annual funding agreement so long as grams funded with appropriated funds in the houses, garages, shops, and similar facilities, such funds are— ‘‘Departmental Management’’, ‘‘Office of the wherever consolidation of activities will con- (a) invested by the Indian tribe, tribal or- Solicitor’’, and ‘‘Office of Inspector General’’ tribute to efficiency or economy, and said ganization, or consortium only in obliga- may be augmented through the Working appropriations shall be reimbursed for serv- tions of the United States or in obligations Capital Fund or the Consolidated Working ices rendered to any other activity in the or securities that are guaranteed or insured Fund. same manner as authorized by sections 1535 by the United States, or GENERAL PROVISIONS, DEPARTMENT OF and 1536 of title 31, United States Code: Pro- (b) deposited only into accounts that are THE INTERIOR vided, That reimbursements for costs and insured by an agency or instrumentality of supplies, materials, equipment, and for serv- SEC. 101. Appropriations made in this title the United States. shall be available for expenditure or transfer ices rendered may be credited to the appro- SEC. 113. (a) Employees of Helium Oper- (within each bureau or office), with the ap- priation current at the time such reimburse- ations, Bureau of Land Management, enti- proval of the Secretary, for the emergency ments are received. tled to severance pay under 5 U.S.C. 5595, SEC. 104. Appropriations made to the De- reconstruction, replacement, or repair of air- may apply for, and the Secretary of the Inte- partment of the Interior in this title shall be craft, buildings, utilities, or other facilities rior may pay the total amount of the sever- available for services as authorized by 5 or equipment damaged or destroyed by fire, ance pay to the employee in a lump sum. U.S.C. 3109, when authorized by the Sec- flood, storm, or other unavoidable causes: Employees paid severance pay in a lump sum retary, in total amount not to exceed Provided, That no funds shall be made avail- and subsequently reemployed by the Federal $500,000; hire, maintenance, and operation of able under this authority until funds specifi- government shall be subject to the repay- aircraft; hire of passenger motor vehicles; cally made available to the Department of ment provisions of 5 U.S.C. 5595(i) (2) and (3), purchase of reprints; payment for telephone the Interior for emergencies shall have been except that any repayment shall be made to service in private residences in the field, exhausted: Provided further, That all funds the Helium Fund. when authorized under regulations approved used pursuant to this section are hereby des- (b) Helium Operations employees who elect by the Secretary; and the payment of dues, ignated by Congress to be ‘‘emergency re- to continue health benefits after separation when authorized by the Secretary, for li- quirements’’ pursuant to section 251(b)(2)(D) shall be liable for not more than the required brary membership in societies or associa- of the Balanced Budget and Emergency Defi- employee contribution under 5 U.S.C. tions which issue publications to members cit Control Act of 1985, and must be replen- 8905a(d)(1)(A). The Helium Fund shall pay for only or at a price to members lower than to ished by a supplemental appropriation which 18 months the remaining portion of required subscribers who are not members. must be requested as promptly as possible. contributions. SEC. 105. Appropriations available to the SEC. 102. The Secretary may authorize the (c) Benefits under this section shall be Department of the Interior for salaries and expenditure or transfer of any no year appro- available to Helium Operations employees expenses shall be available for uniforms or priation in this title, in addition to the who are or will be involuntarily separated allowances therefor, as authorized by law (5 amounts included in the budget programs of before October 1, 2002 because of the ces- U.S.C. 5901–5902 and D.C. Code 4–204). the several agencies, for the suppression or sation of helium production and sales and SEC. 106. Appropriations made in this title emergency prevention of forest or range fires other related activities. shall be available for obligation in connec- on or threatening lands under the jurisdic- SEC. 114. None of the funds in this or pre- tion with contracts issued for services or tion of the Department of the Interior; for vious appropriations Acts may be used to es- rentals for periods not in excess of twelve the emergency rehabilitation of burned-over tablish a new regional office in the United months beginning at any time during the fis- lands under its jurisdiction; for emergency States Fish and Wildlife Service without the cal year. actions related to potential or actual earth- advance approval of the House and Senate SEC. 107. No final rule or regulation of any Committees on Appropriations. quakes, floods, volcanoes, storms, or other agency of the Federal Government pertain- unavoidable causes; for contingency plan- ing to the recognition, management, or va- TITLE II—RELATED AGENCIES ning subsequent to actual oilspills; response lidity of a right-of-way pursuant to Revised DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE and natural resource damage assessment ac- Statute 2477 (43 U.S.C. 932) shall take effect FOREST SERVICE tivities related to actual oilspills; for the unless expressly authorized by an Act of FOREST AND RANGELAND RESEARCH prevention, suppression, and control of ac- Congress subsequent to the date of enact- tual or potential grasshopper and Mormon ment of this Act. For necessary expenses of forest and range- cricket outbreaks on lands under the juris- SEC. 108. No funds provided in this title land research as authorized by law, diction of the Secretary, pursuant to the au- may be expended by the Department of the $187,644,000, to remain available until ex- thority in section 1773(b) of Public Law 99– Interior for the conduct of offshore leasing pended. 198 (99 Stat. 1658); for emergency reclamation and related activities placed under restric- STATE AND PRIVATE FORESTRY projects under section 410 of Public Law 95– tion in the President’s moratorium state- For necessary expenses of cooperating with 87; and shall transfer, from any no year funds ment of June 26, 1990, in the areas of North- and providing technical and financial assist- available to the Office of Surface Mining ern, Central, and Southern California; the ance to States, Territories, possessions, and Reclamation and Enforcement, such funds as North Atlantic; Washington and Oregon; and others, and for forest health management, may be necessary to permit assumption of the Eastern Gulf of Mexico south of 26 de- cooperative forestry, and education and land regulatory authority in the event a primacy grees north latitude and east of 86 degrees conservation activities, $157,922,000, to re- State is not carrying out the regulatory pro- west longitude. main available until expended, as authorized visions of the Surface Mining Act: Provided, SEC. 109. No funds provided in this title by law. That appropriations made in this title for may be expended by the Department of the fire suppression purposes shall be available Interior for the conduct of leasing, or the ap- NATIONAL FOREST SYSTEM for the payment of obligations incurred dur- proval or permitting of any drilling or other For necessary expenses of the Forest Serv- ing the preceding fiscal year, and for reim- exploration activity, on lands within the ice, not otherwise provided for, for manage- bursement to other Federal agencies for de- North Aleutian Basin planning area. ment, protection, improvement, and utiliza- struction of vehicles, aircraft, or other SEC. 110. No funds provided in this title tion of the National Forest System, for for- equipment in connection with their use for may be expended by the Department of the est planning, inventory, and monitoring, and fire suppression purposes, such reimburse- Interior to conduct offshore oil and natural for administrative expenses associated with ment to be credited to appropriations cur- gas preleasing, leasing and related activities the management of funds provided under the rently available at the time of receipt there- in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico planning area heads ‘‘Forest and Rangeland Research,’’ of: Provided further, That for emergency re- for any lands located outside Sale 181, as ‘‘State and Private Forestry,’’ ‘‘National habilitation and wildfire suppression activi- identified in the final Outer Continental Forest System,’’ ‘‘Wildland Fire Manage- ties, no funds shall be made available under Shelf 5-Year Oil and Gas Leasing Program, ment,’’ ‘‘Reconstruction and Construction,’’ this authority until funds appropriated to 1997–2002. and ‘‘Land Acquisition,’’ $1,364,480,000, to re- ‘‘Wildland Fire Management’’ shall have SEC. 111. No funds provided in this title main available until expended, which shall been exhausted: Provided further, That all may be expended by the Department of the include 50 per centum of all monies received funds used pursuant to this section are here- Interior to conduct oil and natural gas during prior fiscal years as fees collected by designated by Congress to be ‘‘emergency preleasing, leasing and related activities in under the Land and Water Conservation requirements’’ pursuant to section the Mid-Atlantic and South Atlantic plan- Fund Act of 1965, as amended, in accordance 251(b)(2)(D) of the Balanced Budget and ning areas. with section 4 of the Act (16 U.S.C. 460l– Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985, and SEC. 112. Advance payments made under 6a(i)): Provided, That up to $10,000,000 of the must be replenished by a supplemental ap- this title to Indian tribes, tribal organiza- funds provided herein for road maintenance July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5095 shall be available for the planned oblitera- Gallegly Luther Riggs Pitts Saxton Tauzin tion of roads which are no longer needed. Ganske Maloney (NY) Rivers Pomeroy Schaefer, Dan Taylor (NC) Gibbons Manton Rogers Porter Schumer Thornberry WILDLAND FIRE MANAGEMENT Goode Manzullo Rohrabacher Poshard Scott Thurman For necessary expenses for forest fire Goodlatte McCarthy (MO) Rothman Price (NC) Sessions Tiahrt presuppression activities on National Forest Goss McCarthy (NY) Roybal-Allard Pryce (OH) Shaw Tierney System lands, for emergency fire suppression Gutierrez McCollum Rush Quinn Shimkus Upton Salmon Radanovich Shuster Vento on or adjacent to such lands or other lands Gutknecht McHugh Hastings (FL) McInnis Sanders Redmond Sisisky Visclosky under fire protection agreement, and for Hayworth McIntyre Scarborough Regula Skaggs Walsh emergency rehabilitation of burned over Na- Hefley McKinney Schaffer, Bob Reyes Skeen Wamp tional Forest System lands, $599,715,000 to re- Herger McNulty Sensenbrenner Riley Smith (NJ) Watkins main available until expended: Provided, Hill Meek Serrano Rodriguez Smith (TX) Watts (OK) That such funds are available for repayment Hilliard Menendez Shadegg Roemer Smith, Linda Waxman of advances from other appropriations ac- Hinchey Metcalf Shays Rogan Snowbarger Weldon (PA) Sherman Ros-Lehtinen Solomon White counts previously transferred for such pur- Hoekstra Millender- Hooley McDonald Skelton Roukema Souder Whitfield poses. Horn Miller (FL) Smith (MI) Royce Spence Wicker b Houghton Minge Smith (OR) Ryun Stabenow Wise 1930 Hulshof Moran (KS) Smith, Adam Sabo Stark Wolf Snyder Sanchez Stenholm Woolsey SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE Hutchinson Morella Jackson (IL) Nethercutt Spratt Sandlin Stokes Wynn OF THE WHOLE Jefferson Neumann Stearns Sanford Talent Young (AK) The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Johnson (WI) Norwood Strickland Sawyer Tauscher Young (FL) Jones Nussle Stump Resolution 181, proceedings will now NOT VOTING—5 resume on those amendments on which Kaptur Oberstar Stupak Kasich Obey Sununu Boucher Schiff Yates further proceedings were postponed in Kelly Olver Tanner Harman Slaughter the following order: amendment No. 11 Kennedy (RI) Owens Taylor (MS) offered by the gentleman from Ver- Kennelly Pappas Thomas b 1957 Kilpatrick Parker Thompson mont [Mr. SANDERS]; and the amend- Kind (WI) Pascrell Thune Ms. STABENOW, Mr. COYNE, Ms. ment offered by the gentlewoman from Kingston Pastor Torres PELOSI, Mr. MATSUI, Mr. REYES, New York [Mrs. MALONEY]. Kleczka Paul Towns Ms. WOOLSEY, and Messrs. STARK, The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes Klug Payne Traficant Kolbe Peterson (MN) Turner NADLER, ENGEL, and Mrs. LOWEY the time for any electronic vote after Kucinich Peterson (PA) Velazquez changed their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ the first vote in this series. LaFalce Petri Waters Messrs. BARRETT of Wisconsin, Lantos Pickering Watt (NC) AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. SANDERS NUSSLE, SALMON, CRAPO, Latham Pombo Weldon (FL) The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- LaTourette Portman Weller NETHERCUTT, DICKEY, ness is the demand for a recorded vote Leach Rahall Wexler CHRISTENSEN, McINNIS, Mrs. KEN- on the amendment offered by the gen- Lewis (KY) Ramstad Weygand NELLY of Connecticut, and Messrs. LoBiondo Rangel tleman from Vermont [Mr. SANDERS] CHABOT, CAPPS, HULSHOF, FORD, on which further proceedings were NOES—230 RUSH, HEFLEY, CUNNINGHAM, postponed and on which the noes pre- Aderholt Ehlers Kennedy (MA) LATHAM, GALLEGLY, COLLINS, vailed by voice vote. Archer Engel Kildee NORWOOD, and PICKERING changed The Clerk will redesignate the Armey English Kim their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Bachus Etheridge King (NY) So the amendment was rejected. amendment. Baesler Everett Klink The Clerk redesignated the amend- Baker Ewing Knollenberg The result of the vote was announced ment. Barr Fattah LaHood as above recorded. Barrett (NE) Fawell Lampson AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MRS. MALONEY OF RECORDED VOTE Bartlett Foglietta Largent The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Barton Forbes Lazio NEW YORK been demanded. Bateman Fox Levin The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Bentsen Frank (MA) Lewis (CA) ness is the demand for a recorded vote A recorded vote was ordered. Berman Franks (NJ) Lewis (GA) The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Bilirakis Frelinghuysen Linder on the amendment offered by the gen- Resolution 181, the Chair announces Blagojevich Frost Lipinski tlewoman from New York [Mrs. that he will reduce to a minimum of 5 Bliley Gejdenson Livingston MALONEY] on which further proceed- Blunt Gekas Lofgren ings were postponed and on which the minutes the period of time within Boehner Gephardt Lowey which a vote by electronic device will Bonilla Gilchrest Lucas noes prevailed by voice vote. be taken on the second amendment on Borski Gillmor Maloney (CT) The Clerk will designate the amend- Brady Gilman Markey ment. which the Chair has postponed further Brown (CA) Gonzalez Martinez proceedings. Bunning Goodling Mascara The Clerk designated the amend- The vote was taken by electronic de- Burton Gordon Matsui ment. vice, and there were—ayes 199, noes 230, Buyer Graham McCrery RECORDED VOTE Callahan Granger McDade not voting 5, as follows: Calvert Green McDermott The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has [Roll No. 260] Cardin Greenwood McGovern been demanded. Castle Hall (OH) McHale A recorded vote was ordered. AYES—199 Chambliss Hall (TX) McIntosh Abercrombie Burr Davis (IL) Clement Hamilton McKeon The CHAIRMAN. This will be a 5- Ackerman Camp Deal Coburn Hansen Meehan minute vote. Allen Campbell DeFazio Combest Hastert Mica The vote was taken by electronic de- Andrews Canady DeGette Cook Hastings (WA) Miller (CA) vice, and there were—ayes 77, noes 351, Baldacci Cannon Delahunt Cooksey Hefner Mink Ballenger Capps Dellums Costello Hilleary Moakley not voting 6, as follows: Barcia Carson Deutsch Coyne Hinojosa Molinari [Roll No. 261] Barrett (WI) Chabot Dickey Cramer Hobson Mollohan Bass Chenoweth Doolittle Crane Holden Moran (VA) AYES—77 Becerra Christensen Duncan Cummings Hostettler Murtha Abercrombie Davis (IL) Gilman Bereuter Clay Ehrlich Davis (VA) Hoyer Myrick Ackerman DeFazio Gordon Berry Clayton Emerson DeLauro Hunter Nadler Andrews DeGette Gutierrez Bilbray Clyburn Ensign DeLay Hyde Neal Bass Diaz-Balart Hall (OH) Bishop Coble Eshoo Diaz-Balart Inglis Ney Becerra Edwards Hastings (FL) Blumenauer Collins Evans Dicks Istook Northup Bentsen Engel Hefner Boehlert Condit Farr Dingell Jackson-Lee Ortiz Berry Eshoo Hinchey Bonior Conyers Fazio Dixon (TX) Oxley Blagojevich Farr Horn Bono Cox Filner Doggett Jenkins Packard Bonior Fawell Hoyer Boswell Crapo Flake Dooley John Pallone Brown (CA) Fazio Jackson (IL) Boyd Cubin Foley Doyle Johnson (CT) Paxon Carson Filner Jackson-Lee Brown (FL) Cunningham Ford Dreier Johnson, E. B. Pease Conyers Frost (TX) Brown (OH) Danner Fowler Dunn Johnson, Sam Pelosi Coyne Gejdenson Jefferson Bryant Davis (FL) Furse Edwards Kanjorski Pickett Cummings Gephardt Johnson, E. B. H5096 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Kennelly Moakley Serrano Porter Schaffer, Bob Tauzin It is scheduled for floor consideration Kucinich Morella Sherman Portman Sensenbrenner Taylor (MS) LaFalce Nadler Smith, Adam Poshard Sessions Taylor (NC) on Tuesday, July 15. The bill has been Leach Olver Souder Price (NC) Shadegg Thomas ordered reported by the Committee on Lipinski Owens Stabenow Pryce (OH) Shaw Thompson Appropriations and the report is ex- Lowey Payne Thurman Quinn Shays Thornberry pected to be filed tomorrow. Maloney (CT) Rangel Towns Radanovich Shimkus Thune The Committee on Rules is con- Maloney (NY) Ros-Lehtinen Velazquez Rahall Shuster Tiahrt Manton Roybal-Allard Vento Ramstad Sisisky Tierney templating an open rule for this legis- McNulty Rush Waters Redmond Skaggs Torres lation. If Members have amendments Millender- Sanders Waxman Regula Skeen Traficant to the bill, and they comply with McDonald Schumer Reyes Skelton Turner Mink Scott Riggs Smith (MI) Upton House rules, there is no need to submit Riley Smith (NJ) Visclosky the amendments or to testify before NOES—351 Rivers Smith (OR) Walsh the Committee on Rules. Members Rodriguez Smith (TX) Wamp should use the Office of Legislative Aderholt Doolittle Kleczka Roemer Smith, Linda Watkins Allen Doyle Klink Rogan Snowbarger Watt (NC) Counsel to draft their amendments. Archer Dreier Klug Rogers Snyder Watts (OK) Again, it is not necessary to submit Armey Duncan Knollenberg Rohrabacher Solomon Weldon (FL) Bachus Dunn Kolbe amendments to the Committee on Rothman Spence Weldon (PA) Rules or to testify as long as the Baesler Ehlers LaHood Roukema Spratt Weller Baker Ehrlich Lampson Royce Stark Wexler amendments comply with House rules. Baldacci Emerson Lantos Ryun Stearns Weygand Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, will the Ballenger English Largent Sabo Stenholm White gentleman yield? Barcia Ensign Latham Salmon Stokes Whitfield Mr. SOLOMON. I yield to the gen- Barr Etheridge LaTourette Sanchez Strickland Wicker Barrett (NE) Evans Lazio Sandlin Stump Wise tleman from Washington. Barrett (WI) Everett Levin Sanford Stupak Wolf Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, could the Bartlett Ewing Lewis (CA) Sawyer Sununu Woolsey distinguished chairman of the Commit- Barton Fattah Lewis (GA) Saxton Talent Wynn tee on Rules or any of the Republican Bateman Flake Lewis (KY) Scarborough Tanner Young (AK) Bereuter Foglietta Linder Schaefer, Dan Tauscher Young (FL) leadership tell us what we are going to Berman Foley Livingston be doing for the rest of the evening at Bilbray Forbes LoBiondo NOT VOTING—6 Bilirakis Ford Lofgren this point? Boucher Harman Slaughter Mr. SOLOMON. Well, reclaiming my Bishop Fowler Lucas Dooley Schiff Yates Bliley Fox Luther time, I can tell the gentleman that Blumenauer Frank (MA) Manzullo b 2007 there is an amendment about to be of- Blunt Franks (NJ) Markey Boehlert Frelinghuysen Martinez Mr. SALMON changed his vote from fered by the gentleman from Colorado Boehner Furse Mascara ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ [Mr. SKAGGS] that will not take but a Bonilla Gallegly Matsui Mr. GUTIERREZ and Mrs. KEN- few minutes. Bono Ganske McCarthy (MO) Mr. DICKS. If the gentleman will Borski Gekas McCarthy (NY) NELLY of Connecticut changed their Boswell Gibbons McCollum vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ continue to yield, perhaps the chair- Boyd Gilchrest McCrery So the amendment was rejected. man can enlighten us about what the Brady Gillmor McDade The result of the vote was announced plan is for the rest of the evening. Brown (FL) Gonzalez McDermott Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the Brown (OH) Goode McGovern as above recorded. Bryant Goodlatte McHale gentleman yield? (Mr. SOLOMON asked and was given Mr. SOLOMON. I yield to the gen- Bunning Goodling McHugh permission to speak out of order.) Burr Goss McInnis tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] to ex- Burton Graham McIntosh RULES COMMITTEE PROCEDURE REGARDING plain that to the gentleman. Buyer Granger McIntyre AMENDMENTS TO LEGISLATION TO BE CONSID- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, it is my Callahan Green McKeon ERED DURING WEEK OF JULY 14, 1997 Calvert Greenwood McKinney understanding that we will go to the Camp Gutknecht Meehan Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Chairman, in Porter amendment and all amendments Campbell Hall (TX) Meek making the two announcements, let me thereto, and prior to that the gen- Canady Hamilton Menendez also announce that we do not expect tleman from Colorado [Mr. SKAGGS] Cannon Hansen Metcalf any votes between now and about 10 Capps Hastert Mica has an amendment which I am going to Cardin Hastings (WA) Miller (CA) o’clock. There will only be one more accept. Castle Hayworth Miller (FL) amendment, and perhaps an amend- After we finish with the gentleman Chabot Hefley Minge ment thereto, so that there is no rea- Chambliss Herger Molinari from Colorado we are going to go to Chenoweth Hill Mollohan son for Members to stand around here the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. POR- Christensen Hilleary Moran (KS) talking if they do not want to for the TER]. I would assume that that is prob- Clay Hilliard Moran (VA) next hour and a half. ably going to take a considerable Clayton Hinojosa Murtha Mr. Chairman, the Committee on Clement Hobson Myrick amount of time and that would be all Clyburn Hoekstra Neal Rules is planning to meet during the we would get done tonight. Coble Holden Nethercutt week of July 14 to grant a rule for con- Mr. DICKS. Does the gentleman in- Coburn Hooley Neumann sideration of the foreign operations ap- Collins Hostettler Ney tend to vote on the Kennedy-Porter Combest Houghton Northup propriation bill for fiscal year 1998. The amendment tonight? Condit Hulshof Norwood bill was ordered reported by the Com- Mr. REGULA. I would hope so, yes. I Cook Hunter Nussle mittee on Appropriations on July 9 and would like to finish it tonight. Cooksey Hutchinson Oberstar will be filed tomorrow, July 11. The bill Costello Hyde Obey Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Chairman, re- Cox Inglis Ortiz is scheduled for floor action on claiming my time, I will continue to Cramer Istook Oxley Wednesday, July 16. That is next yield to the gentleman to explain what Crane Jenkins Packard Wednesday. might happen on the next vote on the Crapo John Pallone Cubin Johnson (CT) Pappas The Committee on Rules may grant a Porter amendment. Will the Commit- Cunningham Johnson (WI) Parker rule which would require the amend- tee stay in Committee and continue to Danner Johnson, Sam Pascrell ments be preprinted in the CONGRES- vote and then roll votes over until to- Davis (FL) Jones Pastor SIONAL RECORD. In this case amend- Davis (VA) Kanjorski Paul morrow? What is the intention of the Deal Kaptur Paxon ments to be preprinted would need to chairman? Delahunt Kasich Pease be signed by the Member and submit- Mr. REGULA. We are going to try to DeLauro Kelly Pelosi ted at the Speaker’s table. do that, depending on how much time DeLay Kennedy (MA) Peterson (MN) Dellums Kennedy (RI) Peterson (PA) Mr. Chairman, because of the tight the Porter amendment takes. The goal Deutsch Kildee Petri schedule on appropriation matters, the is to get far enough along that we can Dickey Kilpatrick Pickering Committee on Rules plans to meet finish by 2 p.m. tomorrow. So we want Dicks Kim Pickett Monday at 5 p.m., that is this coming to keep moving. And any votes after Dingell Kind (WI) Pitts Dixon King (NY) Pombo Monday, on the appropriation bills for the Porter amendment we will roll Doggett Kingston Pomeroy veterans and HUD for fiscal year 1998. over. July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5097 Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Chairman, will cept, and should, therefore, not be con- $300,000 will be for Industrial Assessment the gentleman yield? troversial. Centers, university-based centers that provide Mr. SOLOMON. I yield to the gen- As the chairman knows, I wish that no-cost energy and environmental audits to tleman from Massachusetts, my good we could go further than is provided in help small and medium-sized businesses; friend, the ranking member of the this amendment and to provide greater $300,000 will be for the ``Motor Challenge'' Committee on Rules. increases in these important efficiency program, under which industry-government Mr. MOAKLEY. The gentleman from and conservation programs, but we partnerships promote a systems approach in New York alluded to a bill before the were unable to find the offsets to do selecting, operating, and managing efficient Committee on Rules on Monday on vet- that. In adopting this amendment, it electric motor systems; and erans. I thought there might be some will make a definite improvement in $400,000 will be for the ``NICE-cubed'' pro- chance that we may hear that Friday. the bill. I hope we may be able to go a gram, which provides competitively-selected Mr. SOLOMON. Reclaiming my time, bit farther as the other body considers grants to state-industry partnerships aimed at Mr. Chairman, I would say to the gen- this legislation. encouraging deployment of energy-efficient tleman that that is all up to the Sub- b 2015 technologies and to demonstrate technologies committee on VA, HUD and Independ- that can improve energy efficiency, reduce ent Agencies. If they can file their re- I urge adoption of the amendment. waste, and save money. port tonight, I would be more than glad Mr. Chairman, this amendment would in- Finally, the amendment will make a modest to meet tomorrow to save the Commit- crease the bill's funding for energy conserva- increase ($1 million) in funding for the consoli- tee on Rules members from having to tion and efficiency by $8 million. These addi- dated fuel cell program, part of the fossil en- come back here Monday when there are tional funds will be used for several important ergy research and development activities of not going to be any votes until Tues- research and development programs of the the Department of Energy. day at 5 o’clock. Department of Energy, for State energy pro- The amendment is fully offset. The in- Mr. MOAKLEY. That is what I am re- grams, and for the weatherization program. It creases in the energy conservation accounts ferring to. also makes a small adjustment in the division are offset by a reduction in the advance fund- Mr. SOLOMON. I would ask my good of funds for the fossil energy programs. ing for forest service firefighting activities, and friend to use his persuasion and get it I greatly appreciate the willingness of the the increase for the fuel cell program is offset done. subcommittee chairman, the gentleman from by an additional rescission from the clean coal Mr. MOAKLEY. I used my persuasion Ohio, to work with me to develop an amend- program. These offsets will not have an ad- on the Interior rule and nothing hap- ment that he will accept and that therefore verse effect on these activities. pened. should not be controversial. Mr. Chairman, I yield to my col- Mr. SOLOMON. I would suggest the As Chairman REGULA knows, this amend- league, the gentleman from Florida gentleman persevere. ment does not go as far as I would have liked. [Mr. DAVIS]. AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. SKAGGS I think these programs should receive an even (Mr. DAVIS of Florida asked and was Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I offer greater increase in funds. But the amendment given permission to revise and extend an amendment. is a compromise, and just as it does not do all his remarks.) The Clerk read as follows: that I would have wanted, it goes further than Mr. DAVIS of Florida. Mr. Chairman, Amendment offered by Mr. Skaggs: would the bill as reported. So, adopting this I support the Skaggs amendment. Page 46, line 14, strike ‘‘$599,715,000’’ and in amendment will make a definite improvement Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong support of the lieu thereof insert ‘‘$591,715,000’’. over the bill as reported, and I hope it will set Skaggs amendment which provides a much Page 58, line 18, strike ‘‘$100,000,000’’ and in the stage for further improvements when we needed increase in funding for energy con- lieu thereof insert ‘‘$101,000,000’’. get to a conference with the other body. servation programs. Included in the amend- Page 59, line 10, strike ‘‘$312,153,000’’ and in I urge the adoption of the amendment. ment is an additional $600,000 for the win- lieu thereof insert ‘‘$313,153,000’’. This amendment adds $8 million in budget dows and glazing program. This program pro- Page 60, line 20, strike ‘‘$636,766,000’’ and in authority to the energy conservation accounts. lieu thereof insert ‘‘$644,766,000’’. vides funding for a promising new technology Page 60, line 25, strike ‘‘$149,845,000’’ and in Of that total, $3 million is for the weatheriza- with enormous energy savings potential for the lieu thereof insert ‘‘$153,845,000’’. tion program; $1 million is for the State energy commercial windows market. Page 61, line 6, strike ‘‘$120,845,000’’ and in program; and the rest is allocated as follows: It is my expectation that this funding in- lieu thereof insert ‘‘$123,845,000’’. Building equipment and materials will be in- crease will be used to further the development Page 61, line 7, strike ‘‘$29,000,000’’ and in creased by a total of $3 million. Of that totalÐ of plasma enhanced chemical vapor deposi- lieu thereof insert ‘‘$30,000,000’’. $250,000 will go to research in developing tion [PECVD] techniques for electrochromic Mr. SKAGGS (during the reading). gas-fired heat pumps for heating and cooling technologies. This technology provides a flexi- Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- residences and smaller commercial buildings ble means of controlling the amount of light sent that the amendment be considered (``Hi-cool Heat Pump program''); and heat that passes through a glass or plas- as read and printed in the RECORD. $1 million will go to the lighting programs, to tic surface. Such a capability would provide The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection support a variety of research programs includ- Americans, and indeed much of the world, to the request of the gentleman from ing work on improved light fixtures, advanced with a premier energy saving opportunity in Colorado? lamp technologies, improved lighting controls, building construction. The Department of En- There was no objection. more sophisticated light distribution systems, ergy has estimated that placing this tech- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection and possibly work along lines suggested by nology on all commercial buildings in the Unit- to consideration of this amendment at the Hybrid Lighting Partnership; ed States would produce savings equivalent to this time in the bill en bloc? $1 million will be for cooperative efforts be- the amount of oil that travels through the Alas- There was no objection. tween DOE and industries such as the manu- ka pipeline each year. Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, this factured-housing companies and utility firms to In recognition of the importance of this tech- amendment would increase the bill’s increase the adoption of efficiency measures nology, my home State of Florida has pro- funding for energy conservation and ef- in the marketplaceÐefforts that have been vided $1.2 million in State funds to the Univer- ficiency programs by $8 million. These part of the ``Energy Star'' program, but that sity of South Florida which is utilizing a license additional funds would be used for sev- don't include other aspects of that program associated with technology developed by the eral important R&D programs at the such as the training of retail personnel; National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Col- Department of Energy, for State en- $150,000 will be to expand efforts to de- orado. I believe the additional funds for the ergy programs, and for weatherization. velop practical ``superinsulation'' materials, by windows and glazing program will be available It also makes a small adjustment in working with insulation manufacturers; and to assist with this excellent example of a pub- the division of funds among some of $600,000 will be for research projects con- lic-private partnership. the fossil energy programs. cerning windows and glazing, including ad- Mr. Chairman, I want to thank Congressman I appreciate very much the willing- vanced window coating, electrochromic SKAGGS for his hard work on this amendment ness of the gentleman from Ohio, the ``smart'' windows, and other new technologies and Chairman REGULA for his willingness to chairman of our subcommittee, to that can produce great energy savings. accept it. I believe it is a common sense work to develop this amendment, Three programs in the industry sector will amendment which will enhance our nation's which he has indicated he would ac- receive a total increase of $1 million. Of thatÐ important energy conservation programs and H5098 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 allow the United States to remain at the fore- report very serious consideration. Later this to remain available until expended for con- front of major new conservation technologies. year I will provide you with a strategic plan struction, reconstruction and acquisition of Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, re- that responds to the Committee’s request; I buildings and other facilities, and for con- claiming my time briefly, I also want- want to assure you that it will receive my struction, reconstruction and repair of forest personal attention. Given the importance of roads and trails by the Forest Service as au- ed, if I could, to ask the chairman to energy efficiency—and the opportunities for thorized by 16 U.S.C. 532–538 and 23 U.S.C. 101 engage with me briefly. I believe he has improving the energy efficiency of buildings, and 205: Provided, That not to exceed received a copy or has received a letter in particular—it is essential that the federal $50,000,000, to remain available until ex- from the Secretary of Energy. I have a government’s RD&D program be well-focused pended, may be obligated for the construc- copy which I would like to put in the and adequately supported. tion of forest roads by timber purchasers: RECORD at this point. It is, I think, a I look forward to discussing this matter Provided further, That purchaser road credit very helpful indication of the adminis- with you in more detail in the near future. will be limited to those companies that meet tration’s willingness to work with the Sincerely, the Small Business Administration defini- FEDERICO PEN˜ A. tion of small business as defined in title 13, chairman in some areas of concern to Code of Federal Regulations, part 121. the subcommittee in the building pro- Mr. FOX of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chairman, as gram in particular. my colleagues know, I have been a strenuous POINT OF ORDER Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the supporter of funding for the Low-Income Mr. SMITH of Oregon. Mr. Chairman, gentleman yield? Weatherization Assistance Program and the I raise a point of order against the leg- Mr. SKAGGS. I yield to the gen- State Energy Conservation Program funded islative provision beginning with ‘‘pro- tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] rel- through the Department of Energy accounts in vided further’’ on page 47, line 2, ative to the Secretary’s letter and my the Interior appropriations bill. I have offered through ‘‘part 121’’ on line 6. This lan- amendment. amendments in prior years to increase funding guage violates clause 2 of House rule Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, we have for these programs and I continue to support XXI, which prohibits a provision con- examined the amendment. We appre- strong increases for these programs that go to taining legislative language in a gen- ciate the fact that the gentleman from the heart of the Federal Government's co- eral appropriation bill. Colorado [Mr. SKAGGS] is willing to operation in community-based solutions to the The CHAIRMAN. Does any Member work out a compromise on this, and in needs of the people in our boroughs, town- wish to be heard on the point of order? view of that, we are prepared to accept ships, and counties. The Chair is prepared to rule. The the amendment. I want to thank Mr. SKAGGS for working with second of the unprotected provisos Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, re- us in supporting increased funding for these under the heading ‘‘reconstruction and claiming my time, let me also inquire important programs. Today's amendment in- construction,’’ by restricting the avail- of the chairman, I wanted to put Sec- creases Weatherization by $3 million to $124 ability of the purchaser road credit to retary Pen˜ a’s correspondence to the million in fiscal year 1998 and increases the a specified class of companies, includes chairman in the RECORD at this time. State Energy Program by $1 million to $30 legislation in violation of clause 2(b) of As I mentioned a minute ago, I ex- million. Even though the amendment is small, rule XXI. pect that the chairman finds this a it begins to move in the right direction. The Therefore, the point of order is sus- very forthcoming expression of in- Appropriations Committee had supported flat tained and the language is stricken tended cooperation and accommoda- funding with no inflation increase. from the bill. tion by the administration in some I also want to commend Chairman REGULA Are there any further points of order areas that were of concern to the chair- and his staff for his work on this very difficult against the language read? man in this particular part of the bill, appropriations bill. It is important to stress, AMENDMENT NO. 7 OFFERED BY MR. PORTER and I just wanted to ask the gentle- however, that these two programs have taken Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I offer man’s consent on that point. the brunt of the cuts in the Department of En- an amendment. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, if the ergy conservation accounts since fiscal year The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- gentleman would yield further, we have 1995, when Weatherization was funded at a ignate the amendment. no objection to putting the letter in level of $226 million and the State grants re- The text of the amendment is as fol- the RECORD at this point. ceived $53 million. These cuts of almost 50 lows: The letter referred to follows: percent have affected people in every con- Amendment offered by Mr. PORTER: THE SECRETARY OF ENERGY, gressional district. Weatherization helps low- Page 46, line 20, after the dollar amount in- Washington, DC, July 10, 1997. income Americans through the installation of sert ‘‘(reduced by $41,500,000)’’. Hon. RALPH REGULA, insulation and otherwise improving the energy Page 46, line 126 after the dollar amount, Chairman, Subcommittee on Interior and Relat- insert ‘‘(reduced by $1)’’. ed Agencies, Committee on Appropriations, efficiency of homes. On average, these im- U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, provements save these poor households over Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I hate DC. $200 a year in energy costs. That makes a to offer any amendment to the bill of DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your huge difference. The State Energy Program the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA]. interest in helping us reshape the energy provides leveraging of funds to conduct en- There is no one in the House for whom conservation programs of the Department of ergy improvements in schools and hospitals I have more respect and admiration, Energy and your continued support for the so that more money can go into education and and I assure my friend and all of our objectives of these programs. I know that we health care. This program reaches into small colleagues from the West and so-called share the view that investments to increase timber districts that my difference the productivity of energy use are critical business and homes to reduce energy costs for finding ways to meet environmental and apply innovative technologies to solve our with him and with them is one only of goals, to increase American energy security, energy challenges. policy. and to ensure continued economic growth. These programs are still grossly under- The amendment that I offer, together I know that the House Committee on Ap- funded. I want to stress to my colleagues that with the gentleman from Massachu- propriations has expressed concerns about I hope we can increase these funding levels in setts [Mr. KENNEDY], the gentleman the management of programs designed to im- conference. I will carefully observe our actions from Florida [Mr. MILLER], the gen- prove the energy efficiency of buildings. and I look forward to working with Chairman tleman from Ohio [Mr. KASICH], the While the Department’s programs in this area have been highly successful in the past, REGULA in balancing important interests, but gentlewoman from Oregon [Ms. FURSE], I share your concern that they need a careful providing critical resources to aid people in the gentleman from Delaware [Mr. review. I agree with your observation that need. CASTLE], the gentleman from Utah [Mr. the programs should be focused around a set The CHAIRMAN. The question is on COOK], the gentleman from Wisconsin of objectives that are both clear and easily the amendment offered by the gen- [Mr. KLUG], the gentlewoman from explained. These programs must be devel- tleman from Colorado [Mr. Skaggs]. Maryland [Mrs. MORELLA], and the gen- oped in close cooperation with the business The amendment was agreed to. tleman from California [Mr. ROYCE] and other groups who must be our partners The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. will put an end to the use of taxpayer in this work. Their support for our programs The Clerk read as follows: is vital to our success. subsidies for the construction of log- We are working to redesign our programs RECONSTRUCTION AND CONSTRUCTION ging roads in our national forests. It and will give the views expressed in the FY For necessary expenses of the Forest Serv- will reduce the $89.5 million road con- 98 House Interior Appropriations Committee ice, not otherwise provided for, $160,122,000, struction and reconstruction account July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5099 by $41.5 million. This amendment will Under this amendment, the roads can I am joined by my colleagues today eliminate the funds for the construc- still be built, the logging can still take to say, enough is enough, we do not tion and reconstruction of timber roads place, but the timber companies will need any new taxpayer subsidized log- and eliminate the funds used to admin- have to pay for the cost of building the ging roads. If new roads for logging ister the purchaser road credit pro- roads needed for the timber harvests. purposes are warranted, practical and gram. As estimated by the CBO, the That is the way almost every for-profit profitable, why should not these cor- amendment will directly save tax- company in America works in our porate giants build their own roads? payers $42 million. economy, Mr. Chairman; they pay their The amendment I offer today with Mr. Chairman, this amendment will own costs of doing business. That is my colleague from Illinois [Mr. POR- not affect recreation and general pur- called free enterprise. TER] will end the practice of taxpayer pose roads, and it will not reduce the Mr. Chairman, we already have subsidies for the construction of these money for maintenance and road oblit- 380,000 miles of roads in our national new logging roads. We cut $41.5 million eration, which is funded through a sep- forests, enough to encircle the planet out of the construction and reconstruc- arate account. Under this amendment, more than 15 times, 1.6 miles of road tion component of the Forest Service if timber companies want to build log- for every square mile of national for- roads budget. ging roads with their own money, they est. Do we really need more subsidized Our amendment only affects the con- can; and there is $5.9 million left in the roads? struction and reconstruction of logging account for the Forest Service to in- Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues roads themselves. It does not touch spect and oversee their work. to support this amendment. funds for recreation or general purpose Under the present system, logging Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. roads or trail construction, nor does it companies receive incentives to build Chairman, I rise in support of the Por- affect the budget for the maintenance roads but the taxpayers are left with ter amendment. of the existing infrastructure. future maintenance costs. A majority First I want to say to my good friend, The Forest Service fiscal year 1998 of the timber roads in our national for- the gentleman from the State of Wash- budget notes show how they would use ests were constructed through the pur- ington [Mr. DICKS], that I thought that the $41.5 million for timber roads. They chaser road credit program. when the House got rid of B–1 Bob that want to spend roughly $10 million to The credit that is issued by the For- it might be the last we have seen of build 1.3 miles of new timber roads and est Service is for an estimate of the someone in that particular line of 38.1 miles of reconstructed timber cost of the road that, according to the work. But we have got B–2 Norman to roads. The remaining $31.5 million was GAO, includes a 15-percent profit mar- replace him, who has become the Paul slated for use, in the staff report, for gin. Mr. Chairman, that is a direct sub- Bunyan of our national forests. the designing and engineering of tim- sidy, and it is one that is often greater The House of Representatives voted ber roads under the purchaser credit than the profit margin than the timber less than 2 weeks ago on a spending cut program. company can expect on the whole sale. package to balance the Federal budget. This program gives trees to timber Further, the estimate and the actual Wrapped in those proposals were bil- companies in exchange for their cost to costs are never compared. That may be lions of dollars of reductions in the build the roads, another taxpayer give- a further indirect subsidy. country’s transportation budget, away that must end. This amendment Bottom line, there is no accountabil- money needed to pave our highways leaves intact the $5.9 million the For- ity for the estimate and credit offered and fill our potholes, money needed so est Service requested to inspect and by the Forest Service. oversee the work when timber compa- To argue that the purchaser road that hard-working families can get to work on time, so that economic goods nies build roads under purchaser credit. credit program does not offer a subsidy We still want the Forest Service to can be efficiently shipped to the mar- is absolutely absurd. If there was no inspect and oversee their work. We just ketplace, and so that the parents can subsidy, Mr. Chairman, the timber no longer want to reimburse timber get their kids to schools safely. companies would not care if it is elimi- companies for the cost of these roads. Yet today we are considering an Inte- nated; and, very obviously, they do. The savings we get from this amend- rior appropriations bill that contains The fact that the Price Waterhouse ment will be applied for deficit reduc- millions of dollars to subsidize the con- study says otherwise is refuted by the tion. fact that it was paid for by the Amer- struction of logging roads in our na- We must stand up against the special ican Forest and Paper Association. tional forests so that wealthy timber interests and reverse this wasteful and Mr. Chairman, the Forest Service is a companies can haul off even higher environmentally damaging spending. land management agency. It was not profits. Not enough money to fix our The environment suffers because build- created to be in the business of build- national highways, but plenty to spare ing these new roads in our national for- ing roads. The two other land manage- for big profitable timber companies est system has had a devastating im- ment agencies, the Bureau of Land like Weyerhaeuser, Georgia Pacific, pact on direct habitat loss, water qual- Management and the Bureau of Indian and International Paper. ity, and wildlife populations. American taxpayers will no longer Affairs, do not subsidize the construc- b tion and reconstruction of timber roads stand for such corporate welfare 2030 on their lands. Neither should the For- schemes. Paul Bunyan and his blue ox Road construction, particularly on est Service. Babe never needed a pocketful of Fed- steep unstable slopes dramatically in- The timber companies build a lot of eral cash to do their job. But if we lis- creases the risk of landsliding, erosion, roads under the Bureau of Land Man- ten to the cries of the timber interests, and siltation of the streams. Such dam- agement and Bureau of Indian Affairs, their industry would go down the river age requires us to be more than idle ob- but none of them are subsidized. if they were pulled away from the sub- servers. I appreciate the efforts of the chair- sidy trough. Some points I would like to reiterate man of the subcommittee to improve My colleagues would think that if we about this amendment. the forest road program by limiting the were going to allow private timber The amendment will cut only money number of roads that can be con- companies to come in and remove Fed- from the budget that would be used to structed in our national forests. eral assets from our forests for their build logging roads. We have never My colleagues will hear in the debate own profit, at the very least these com- touched the funds that are needed to that only 8 miles of roads will be al- panies would have to pay for the roads repair or maintain roads in the exist- lowed to be built by the Forest Service. that are needed to get to that timber. ing national forest infrastructure. That is by the Forest Service, Mr. What is next? Paying for gasoline for There is $85 million in this bill under Chairman, and does not take into ac- the corporate jets? The American tax- the entirely separate section entitled count the purchaser road credit pro- payers already paid for 380,000 miles of ‘‘Infrastructure Management’’ that is gram. Factoring in the roads under roads that crisscross our national for- used for road maintenance. We do not this program, the total is 302 miles of ests, which is more than eight times touch the funds for building the gen- new subsidized timber roads at a cost the size of the U.S. Interstate Highway eral purpose or recreation roads or the to the taxpayer of $41.5 million. System. construction of trails. H5100 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 This money plain and simple is a di- pression. They are used to get people Washington sometime, but this issue rect handover to the lumber companies out into those great recreational areas. has nothing to do with recreational for going in and harvesting trees. All The Forest Service lands provide more roads. we say is if you want to go in and cut recreational opportunity than our Na- Mr. DICKS. Of course it does. down the trees, pay for the roads your- tional Park System. That is something Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. If self, and do not look to the Federal that is not well understood by some the gentleman will just yield to me for taxpayer for the subsidy. easterners, and if the gentleman from a brief moment to answer some of the AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. DICKS TO THE Massachusetts ever wants to come out, questions that he has brought up. AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. PORTER I will be glad to take him around and First and foremost, we specifically Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I offer an show him a few of the roads. But, seri- outline in the language in this amend- amendment to the amendment. ously, these roads are very important ment that would prevent any cut in The Clerk read as follows: in terms of the transportation system. funding for recreational road purposes, Amendment offered by Mr. DICKS to the I want to also point out the density of first. Second, the gentleman says that amendment offered by Mr. PORTER: roads on the Forest Service lands are the cost of lumber will go up. Only 4 On line 2 of the Porter amendment strike much lower than either BLM lands or percent of the lumber in this country the figure $41,500,000, and insert $5,600,000. in Forest Service lands. comes totally from our national for- On line 4 of the Porter amendment strike The problem with what the gen- ests. We have got 389,000 miles of for- the figure $1 and insert $25,000,000. tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. KEN- est, and we have only got 1.3 miles Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I have NEDY] and the gentleman from Illinois worth of new roads. been listening to my colleagues today, [Mr. PORTER] have come up with is that Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- many of which feel that the Kennedy– they want to cut $41.5 million out of ing my time, first of all, all these roads Porter amendment goes too far, that it appropriated funds for timber roads. are used by people for recreational pur- makes too deep a cut in the timber Most of that money, almost all of that poses. purchaser credit program. It also money, I think $40 million of that Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Ab- makes a very severe cut in appro- money, would be used for reconstruc- solutely. priated funds, most of which are being tion. Reconstruction means going out Mr. DICKS. All of them are used. used for reconstruction of timber and fixing up roads that have problems When we do reconstruction on those roads. Only 8 miles of new roads are and doing it so that you can put in cul- roads, it is to keep those roads avail- being constructed under appropriated verts, you can fix the roads so if you able for recreational purposes. The gen- funds. have a big storm, they do not break tleman is taking out a big part of that What I am offering here is a com- apart and wind up blowing out and money. promise. This will allow us to go for- winding up in the salmon streams. I am surprised that we even have, ward and do the reconstruction, and it That is why I have changed that part of and I think it is 5 percent, by the way. will also provide half of the money for their amendment to go to $5.6 million Look at what we have done to timber timber purchaser credit. which is the administration’s budget harvesting in this country. We have By the way, most of the timber sales, request. I think we then fix that part of taken it down to here. I know that over 75 percent of the timber sales, go the amendment. Then we preserve someone will not rest until it is prob- to small businesses. These are not some of the money for purchaser credit ably below this line. That is simply not going to the elite. Most of them have so that the smaller companies out right because we have a responsibility. gotten out of the business, at least in there can still use this program, which We can manage these forests on a sus- the Northwest, because they export off is important for them because they tainable basis. This is not James Watt their private lands and they get very have a hard time. If they do not have running this place down there. It is little if any Federal timber. this, they are going to have to finance Jim Lyons who used to be on the staff My colleagues have to understand the roadwork themselves, and some of here of the Committee on Agriculture, what has happened in the timber area. these smaller companies have a dif- it is Dan Glickman, it is ALBERT GORE, We used to do about 10 to 12 billion ficult time doing that. it is Bill Clinton, it is Bruce Babbitt. board feet nationally each year. This We have a way of fixing that with the These are the people that are managing year we have come down, and this is purchaser elect program which will these forests. the history here, and in recent years then allow the Forest Service to do All I want to say is that these people we have come down to about 3.7 billion some of this for them. There are two are managing this properly. They have board feet. We have cut in third the groups that are going to get really hurt also said that the Kennedy-Porter timber program in this country. by this amendment and doing away amendment goes too far. We have a let- What happens when we do that? What with timber purchaser credit. One is ter here today and let me just read a happens when we create this shortage? the counties. They are going to lose 25 couple of salient paragraphs: First of all we import. Over 30 percent percent of what they got before. Those ‘‘Small timber business purchasers of the softwood that comes in today Members who have been worried about would be adversely affected because of comes in from Canada. They are up PILT, counties get hurt here. potential financial troubles they may The CHAIRMAN. The time of the there cutting like mad to meet the encounter as they operate timber sales gentleman from Washington [Mr. U.S. market requirement. The other if the purchaser credit program is DICKS] has expired. thing that happens is it forces up the eliminated. Accordingly, the adminis- (By unanimous consent, Mr. DICKS price of lumber. We have got a letter was allowed to proceed for 4 additional tration urges Congress to allow the here from the homebuilders saying minutes.) Forest Service to do the purchaser that the average house has gone up Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, the coun- election. The administration also sup- about $2,800 per house because of in- ties get hurt and the small businesses ports reducing the construction of new creased lumber prices. So consumers who have used this program. That is roads on national forests as reflected in have paid something like $2.8 billion why instead of eliminating it as the its budget. However, the $41.5 million more than they would have had to pay gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. reduction the amendment proposes for their new houses over the last sev- KENNEDY] and the gentleman from Illi- goes too far in eliminating important eral years. nois [Mr. PORTER] do, I have kept it in construction and reconstruction efforts I ask tonight for some common at $25 million. that provide public safety and environ- sense, for some compromise. This is an Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. mental benefits.’’ amendment that will not devastate Chairman, will the gentleman yield? The administration opposes the Ken- these programs. By the way, in case Mr. DICKS. I yield to the gentleman nedy-Porter amendment because it somebody did not understand, one can- from Massachusetts. simply goes too far. This is a decent not go in and do timber harvesting Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. I compromise. without roads. Ninety percent of the appreciate the gentleman yielding. Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. If roads we have are used for recreational Mr. Chairman, I would love to go the gentleman will yield further, I purposes. They are used for fire sup- camping with the gentleman from would like to point out that I too got July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5101 a letter from the Secretary after I re- amendment that would adversely affect am just afraid we will not be able to ceived the letter that he sent to me at prior timber purchaser credits. We take care of everybody who wants to the gentleman’s request, I got a letter would certainly work to put language speak. from him later this afternoon indicat- in at some point to make sure that Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, let me ing to me that he has no idea of what that is a clear understanding. We will revise the unanimous-consent request it was that the gentleman had talked work with the chairman and the ad- to close all debate on this amendment to him about. ministration to make sure that is and all amendments thereto in 11⁄2 Mr. DICKS. No, no. Dan Glickman is taken care of. hours and, of course, that the time be a longtime member of the Committee Mrs. CHENOWETH. I thank the gen- equally divided. on Agriculture. tleman from Washington [Mr. DICKS] The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection The CHAIRMAN. The time of the because I do believe it could conceiv- to the request of the gentleman from gentleman from Washington [Mr. ably take away those credits. I would Ohio? DICKS] has again expired. appreciate language that would make Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. (On request of Mr. KENNEDY of Massa- sure that did not happen. Chairman, reserving the right to ob- chusetts, and by unanimous consent, Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the ject, I have to clarify this issue with Mr. DICKS was allowed to proceed for 1 gentleman yield? the Chair for a brief moment. If we additional minute.) Mr. DICKS. I yield to the gentleman limit the total debate to 11⁄2 hours, how Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I continue from Ohio. do we separate the amount of time that to yield to the gentleman from Massa- Mr. REGULA. I think the point that would be dedicated to the Dicks chusetts. is lost here, too, is that taking out this amendment versus the underlying Por- Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. In money which takes away the ability to ter amendment? clarifying the letter that I sent you reconstruct roads means we are going b 2045 this afternoon, the administration sup- to have environmental problems. What ports reducing the construction of new this gentleman is proposing is a good Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the roads within the national forest system environmental vote because it pre- gentleman yield? primarily for the environmental rea- serves the necessary money to recon- Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. I sons and because of the extensive cost struct these roads in a way that not yield to the gentleman from Ohio. to maintain the road system that al- only can the public use them but we Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, we do ready exists. will avoid siltation, we will avoid a lot not attempt to separate them. We will In fact the President’s budget pro- of problems that would result in an en- roll the votes. There will be a vote on poses to eliminate the purchaser road vironmental degradation. the Dicks substitute, and then there credit program, which the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. The time of the will be a vote on Porter-Kennedy. just refunded in his amendment. gentleman from Washington [Mr. Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. So Mr. DICKS. By 50 percent. DICKS] has again expired. the entire debate will then center Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. The Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I ask around the Dicks substitute? President opposes your amendment. unanimous consent that the gentleman The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would Mr. DICKS. I never said the adminis- from Washington have 2 additional announce it would be the Chair’s inten- tration supported my amendment. minutes. tion to divide the time, if the unani- Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. But The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection mous-consent agreement is reached, as the gentleman certainly said Mr. to the request of the gentleman from follows: 45 minutes to be controlled by Glickman supported his amendment. Ohio? the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], Mrs. CHENOWETH. Mr. Chairman, Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. 221⁄2 minutes to be controlled by each of will the gentleman yield? Chairman, I object. the proponents of the amendments on Mr. DICKS. I yield to the gentle- The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard. the floor, that being the gentleman woman from Idaho. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I ask from Illinois [Mr. PORTER] and the gen- Mrs. CHENOWETH. I think the unanimous consent that debate on this tleman from Washington [Mr. DICKS]. amendment of the gentleman from amendment and all amendments there- Mr. DICKS. What about my amend- Washington [Mr. DICKS] is interesting, to close in 1 hour and that the time be ment, Mr. Chairman? but I have some questions. equally divided. I think we have to object. I think it One is that on the purchaser road The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection is too short. I think we are not ready credits because of the volume of timber to the request of the gentleman from yet. sales in the Reagan and Bush adminis- Ohio? The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? tration, then they dropped off sharply Mr. DEFAZIO. Mr. Chairman, reserv- Mr. DICKS. I object. in the Clinton administration, large ing the right to object, I am not a Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I have a businesses as well as small businesses member of the committee. I wish to unanimous-consent request pending. are carrying these purchaser road cred- speak on this. How can I be assured, The CHAIRMAN. There has been an its as assets on their books. If the pur- since I am not a member of the com- objection. chaser road credits are eliminated in mittee, and I do not know how many Does the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. any form, that would be a taking of as- members of the committee are going to REGULA] seek recognition? sets. Can the gentleman reassure me rise, that I will be allocated any time Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, let us that in his amendment that would not during that hour? There are many start over. occur? other members on both sides of the Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- Mr. DICKS. If my amendment is issue who wish to speak. sent that all debate on this amendment adopted, of course, we will keep the Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, will the and all amendments thereto close in program going. Even if it is not, I am gentleman yield? 11⁄2 hours and that the time be equally confident that there is nothing in the Mr. DEFAZIO. Further reserving the divided. Kennedy-Porter amendment that retro- right to object, I yield to the gen- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection actively takes away anybody’s right. tleman from Washington. to the request of the gentleman from The CHAIRMAN. The time of the Mr. DICKS. Is the gentleman saying Ohio? gentleman from Washington [Mr. that it is an hour on the Dicks amend- Mr. PORTER. Reserving the right to DICKS] has again expired. ment? object, Mr. Chairman, the Chair an- (By unanimous consent, Mr. DICKS Mr. REGULA. If the gentleman will nounced that the allocation of time was allowed to proceed for 1 additional yield, it is a total of 1 hour on the Por- would basically be skewed toward op- minute.) ter and the Dicks. ponents of the Porter amendment and Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I would Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I would proponents of the Dicks amendment. I like to assure the gentlewoman that object. I think that is too short a time would ask the gentleman from Ohio if there is nothing in my amendment and frame. I think there are a lot of Mem- he would change his unanimous-con- I do not believe anything in either bers who want to speak on this and I sent request to request that all debate H5102 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 on both amendments be concluded by sidy and therefore some sort of cor- NEDY], 20 minutes to the gentleman 10:30 p.m. and that half of the time be porate pork. It is not. from Illinois [Mr. PORTER] and 20 min- controlled by the gentleman from Ohio Mr. Chairman, this issue is not an en- utes to myself. [Mr. REGULA] and half the time be con- vironmental issue, and it is not even a The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection trolled by myself. budget issue. This is a question of the to the request of the gentleman from Mr. OBEY. If the gentleman will management of forests. Ohio? yield under his reservation, Mr. Chair- Now let us assume that we eliminate Mr. RIGGS. Reserving the right to man, I am very interested in trying to all of the appropriated money, as has object, Mr. Chairman, I just would like obtain a time limitation. I have been been suggested. When we eliminate all to ask the distinguished subcommittee trying to do that working with the ma- the appropriated money, we eliminate chairman, since there are a number of jority party for the last 45 minutes, but the engineering process in America. us waiting here for the opportunity to I do not think it is an especially sweet Now those of my colleagues who participate in this debate who rep- deal when all of the time is controlled want to shut down the operation of resent districts that are home to Fed- by that side of the aisle. every timber program in America, they eral forest lands and which are directly Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I with- are right, they are right. Go with the impacted by the proposed amendments draw my unanimous-consent request, gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. when we would have an opportunity to and we will try to work it out. KENNEDY]. You betcha; that is what is speak under the proposed unanimous- The CHAIRMAN. The request is with- done. consent agreement limiting time for drawn. If my colleagues believe in the man- debate on those 2 amendments or any Mr. SMITH of Oregon. Mr. Chairman, agement of forests for the protection of subsequent amendments thereto. I move to strike the last word. everything we want to protect, the en- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the Mr. Chairman, I want to discuss for a dangered species, the water quality and gentleman yield? minute real purchaser credits because quantity, the stream bank programs, Mr. RIGGS. Further reserving the again this is one of the situations in the wildlife, and when I am finished I right to object, I yield to the gen- which we have been debating where will yield, then my colleagues have to tleman from Ohio. myth seems to override fact. And let realize that we have to have roads for Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, obvi- me try to bring back to what is actu- the protection not only of the struc- ously we would have 40 minutes be- ally at stake here with respect to real ture of the forests, but what about wild tween myself and the gentleman from purchaser credits which have been, fires? What about recreation? What Washington [Mr. DICKS] and he could they have been accused of being the about all the opportunities that we all assign some time and I could. handmaiden of the rich. It is the proc- enjoy in the forests? Eliminated. Now, if my colleague does not think ess that has been accused of being a If we eliminate, by the same token, 40 minutes is enough, he can object to subsidy, and let me explain exactly the forest or the timber credit pro- the unanimous-consent request. We are what happens: gram, we have eliminated small busi- simply trying to expedite this, and it If I am a timber purchaser and the ness. Seventy-five percent of all con- would amount to probably about 2 min- forest service has a sale, the forest tracts in the forests are given to small utes per speaker. service identifies the amount of money business, 75 percent. One of the reasons Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, would the for the road. When I bid the timber that they are still in business is simply gentleman yield under his reservation? Mr. RIGGS. I yield to the distin- contract, I determine by my own as- because of the road credit program be- guished ranking member, the gen- sessment what the road is worth. If the cause, yes, they can collect their road is in my estimation, in the esti- tleman from Wisconsin. money earlier, they do not have to Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, let me just mation of the Forest Service, too ex- wait until the end of the program, they suggest that it is my hunch that there pensive, I bid less on the timber. If I do not have to wait 3 years. Sometimes will be enough time for everybody who think I can build a road for the amount these contracts are out 3 years. They wants to to speak provided that people of money that is explained through the can assume timber in exchange for the who want to speak simply let the four engineering process in the Forest Serv- cost, the cost of the road. Not profit, floor managers know who they are so ice, or less, than I bid more for the tim- the cost. Therefore, my colleagues, this that they can allocate time to every- ber. So I adjust my timber bid depend- is not, should not be couched in the body without squeezing people out. The ing upon my assessment of the road al- terms that we have heard. problem they have is that at this time location determined by the Forest So supporting any program that has of night people come out of the wood- Service and by the engineering process. appropriated funds for engineering, work and the fellows managing the When I am through the road is a supporting any program that protects time do not have any idea who wants wash. I do not bid the road to make someone, road purchaser credits is es- to speak. money on trying to get the timber con- sential to the health of the timber in- I mean I cannot imagine in 80 min- tract. So when it is all over, there is no dustry in the west. utes that we will not have enough time advantage to me in the road process. Please understand this is the issue. for everybody to participate. I have got However it is an advantage if I am a Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I want forest lands in my district. I do not small business man because some way I to make a unanimous-consent request, need to talk. I will simply be happy to am given a credit for the expense of the and I yield to the gentleman from Wis- give that time to somebody else. I just road in more timber. consin [Mr. OBEY]. want to get this thing done in a reason- That is the size of it. There is not a Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I do not able time before people start losing subsidy around it; there never has care who makes the unanimous-con- their tempers. been. sent request. I think there is bipartisan The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman Now do not press me. Look, I am agreement on the committee at least. from California [Mr. RIGGS] insist on from the west, I am from a timber Mr. REGULA. That is the request I his objection? country. My gosh, I am probably kid- am going to make. Mr. RIGGS. I reserve the right to ob- ding my colleagues. But my colleagues Mr. OBEY. And I think we ought to ject, Mr. Chairman. all know Price-Waterhouse. My col- just proceed with the request, so why The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman leagues all know that they are a very does the gentleman from Ohio not go from California insist upon his reserva- successful auditing company in the ahead? tion of objection? United States. Price-Waterhouse has Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I ask Mr. RIGGS. Mr. Chairman, I with- examined this issue. Price-Waterhouse unanimous consent that all debate on draw my reservation of objection. says this is not a subsidy, Price- the Porter amendment and all amend- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Waterhouse says this is not a bonus to ments thereto close in 80 minutes, the to the request of the gentleman from any big timber companies, and there- time to be allocated as follows: 20 min- Ohio? fore I suggest that a third party wit- utes to the gentleman from Washing- There was no objection. ness says and disputes, disputes the ton [Mr. DICKS], 20 minutes to the gen- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move thought that this is some sort of sub- tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. KEN- to strike the last word. July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5103 Mr. Chairman, the debate, as I under- Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank two and three and five and ten people stand it now, will be for 80 minutes, 20 the gentleman. who really rely on the timber pur- minutes controlled by the gentleman Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. chaser credit program. It is not for big from Washington [Mr. DICKS], 20 by the Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- companies, it is for the small operator. gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. tlewoman from Colorado [Ms. I think it is instructive for all of us KENNEDY], 20 by the gentleman from Il- DEGETTE]. to think about the fact that, with all linois [Mr. PORTER] and 20 by myself, Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I due respect to the sponsors of this and then after the 80 minutes of de- would like to respond to a couple of amendment, in my judgment, in my bate, then they will be intermingled. points made by the gentleman from opinion, in my education, there is not We will take votes on the Dicks sub- Washington [Mr. DICKS]. one of them that has the kind of forest stitute, and following that there will First of all, this issue that every- lands and the kind of timber commu- be a vote on Porter-Kennedy. body, all of the recreational users, are nities and the kind of people that I do Then I want to announce to the using these roads. In fact, the GAO has in my district, so it is easy to sit in Members that once that is completed it stated that 70 percent of all Forest Chicago or New York or Massachusetts would be the intention of the Chair to Service roads are designated as closed and say I am going to take care of you continue to take amendments with no to vehicular traffic or for rough, high out West, and talk about special inter- further votes tonight. We will go to clearance vehicles. These logging roads ests. Line 7, Page 76 and stop just before the are built for and used primarily by log- Let me tell the Members who the spe- NEA issue, and the committee at that ging companies, and are generally in- cial interests are in this case. They are point will rise. So we would have two accessible to vehicles driven by most the people who are driving these fine more votes tonight at the end of the 80- Americans. I spent a lot of time in the gentlemen and the sponsors of this minute period in which we debate the national forests in my State, and I will amendment to a no harvest-no cut pol- Kennedy–Porter and the Dicks sub- tell Members that recreational users do icy on Federal lands. That is not only stitute. not use these logging roads. damaging to Federal property, it is Mr. Chairman, I want to make it Second, with respect to the thought damaging to the recreational interests. clear there will be no action on the that housing sales will drastically in- People who go and use these Federal NEA issue tonight. We are going to crease if we cut this program, the truth lands and forest areas, they use the stop just prior to reaching that point is only 4 percent of all timber activity roads to get there. It is absolutely in- in the bill, which is Page 76, Line 7. in the United States occurs in our na- accurate to say that special interests Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, will the tional forests, and yet there are 377,000 on our side are trying to protect this gentleman yield? miles of roads crisscrossing these program. My special interests are the Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gen- areas. This is eight times the length of little guy. That is who is being hurt by tleman from Wisconsin. the highway system, and it seems in- this. My special interests are the rec- Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I am hav- credibly disproportionate to be build- reational people who want to go into ing difficulty still hearing what the ing these roads, as well as incredibly the forest and use it on a weekend, and gentleman has said. I just want to unlikely that housing costs will go up they use a timber road to get there. make sure. There will be which other if we simply stop this program. I want Members to know, let us put amendments then debated tonight Finally, Mr. Chairman, I think it is this into perspective. There is a special after these two? The Klug? Royce? important for me to add my two cents interest driving the sponsors of this Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, any as a westerner, because I know exactly amendment. They want a no cut policy amendment will be in order that a the damage that timber roads can do to on Federal lands and they want to put Member might wish to offer until we the environment and to the health of my region out of work. They want to reach Line 7, Page 76. If there were any our forest ecosystems, as well as the hurt my little people. I am not going to votes ordered, they will be rolled over. wasting of the taxpayers’ money. stand for it. Mr. OBEY. All of the votes will be When we do this kind of clear-cutting Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I am rolled? in western forests, we wreak havoc on pleased to yield 3 minutes to the gen- Mr. REGULA. That is correct, there wildlife and we decimate mountain- tleman from Florida [Mr. DAN MILLER], will be no votes after Porter-Kennedy sides for floods. We have seen a lot of a sponsor of the amendment and a and Dicks. this in Idaho with the recent flood member of the committee. Mr. OBEY. One additional question. damage, and the fact that a lot of the Mr. MILLER of Florida. Mr. Chair- It is essential that we not be in the mudslides have been caused by timber man, I stand up here to a certain de- committee marking up the transpor- roads in our national forests. It is eco- gree reluctantly, being a strong sup- tation bill tomorrow when the NEA logically wrong and it is a financial porter of this particular amendment, vote comes to the floor. Do we have an drain on our budget. We should simply because I am a member of the sub- assurance that that double duty will vote against the Dicks amendment. It committee with the chairman, the gen- not occur? does not cut enough. We should vote tleman from Ohio [Mr. REGULA], and I Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I am for the Kennedy–Porter amendment. have no greater admiration for anyone advised by staff that the leadership of Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman than I have for the gentleman, espe- the Committee on Appropriations, the from Massachusetts [Mr. KENNEDY] and cially with the hard work he has done gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. LIVING- the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. POR- to bring this bill to the floor today. STON] is trying to work this problem TER] for raising these important issue. So many of my colleagues and friends out to avoid the very thing the gen- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield who I vote with most of the time are tleman from Wisconsin described. 2 minutes to the gentleman from Wash- on the other side of the issue. But this Mr. OBEY. My point is I want assur- ington [Mr. NETHERCUTT], a member of is an issue that if one is a fiscal con- ances that the debate on NEA will not the subcommittee. servative and one also loves the envi- occur while we are in full committee Mr. NETHERCUTT. Mr. Chairman, I ronment, it is a natural amendment to marking up because we cannot be in thank the gentleman for yielding time vote for. two places at the same time and every- to me. Mr. Chairman, let us get the facts one feels very strongly about that. I want to respond to a few comments straight here. First of all, we have by my friends, the gentleman from heard the number of miles we are talk- b 2100 Massachusetts [Mr. KENNEDY] and the ing about, 380,000 miles. That is 15 Mr. REGULA. That is my intention gentleman from Illinois [Mr. PORTER], times around the world. That is a lot of that that will not happen; that is, the both of whom I have great respect for. miles to be built in the national forests debate, if there is any committee I am from the West. I am from the east to start with. markup ongoing at that time. Let me side of the State of Washington, where Mr. Chairman, the amount of logs assure the gentleman that we are not we have small timber companies. The that are taken out of the national for- going to debate the NEA issue while idea of big timber companies is foreign ests is a very small amount of the total the full committee is in markup. to us. We have small timber companies, number of logs in the United States. It H5104 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 only represents 4 to 5 percent of the [From the New York Times, May 23, 1997] program under which timber companies sub- total amount of commercial logging in QUIET ROADS BRINGING THUNDERING PRO- tract the cost of road-building from the price the United States. So we are not talk- TESTS—CONGRESS TO BATTLE OVER WHO they pay for the trees they log in national PAYS TO GET TO NATIONAL FOREST TREES forests, called the purchaser credit plan. ing about devastating the entire log- As the road fight plays out in Congress, en- (By Carey Goldberg) ging industry of the United States. vironmentalists here in the Idaho Panhandle Mr. Chairman, there are two major COEUR D’ALENE, ID.—They are only pretty and in eastern Washington, where national reasons I believe we should be support- little forest roads after all, the kind that in- forests are some of the most heavily roaded ing the amendment; first, as a fiscal spired Robert Frost, the kind that bring in the country, say they will be watching conservative, it is an issue of money. memories of bumping happily over canopied with the trepidation that stems from a first- ruts on a bike. Or family outings jouncing by hand knowledge of the damage roads can do. GAO did a study here about a year or car past lacy walls of birches to a beloved so ago talking about the money. It ‘‘The roads have largely destroyed the pond or hunting ground. Coeur d’Alene River here; the river has died costs us hundreds of millions of dollars But in the current battle over logging in a death of a thousand cuts,’’ said John every year to run this program. In 1995 the country’s national forests, woodland Osborn, founder of the Inland Empire Public it was a $234 million net cost. It was roads have nowhere near so innocent a mien. Lands Council, a forest conservation group. $278 million in 1995, and it was $455 mil- Logging roads are increasingly blamed for In Spokane, Wash. ‘‘This is the worst case of lion back in 1994. contributing to landslides, floods like those watershed damage in the National Forest So the total cost of the timber har- threatening parts of Idaho, and changes in System.’’ rivers and streams like those that have dev- Roads damage ecosystems in several ways, vesting business is costing the Federal astated fish stocks in rivers and lakes taxpayers money. Why should the Fed- scientists say, and when heavy road-building around this town in the Coeur d’Arlene (pro- is combined with cutting all the timber in an eral taxpayers be subsidizing this pro- nounced kur da LANE) National Forest. area, known as clear-cutting, the result is a gram? That is what it is, is corporate The cost of building roads is also increas- one-two punch. welfare, when it has a subsidy. It is a ingly cited as the reason that many national Trees absorb water. When they have been net cost. The GAO said that. forests lose money on lumber sales. And the cut, more water flows down slopes like those Mr. Chairman, the other issue we dirt roads so web the country’s woods, with that dominate the Coeur d’Alene National talked about is the environment. It more than 380,000 miles nationwide—enough Forest. does affect the environment, especially to circle the globe nearly 15 times—that here When roads wash out, the scientists say, in Idaho, one square mile of forest can be rid- when we combine logs, logging, with they dump rocks and soil on lower slopes and dled by as many as 20 miles of roads. into streambeds; even when they remain in- the roads. I am not opposed to logging ‘‘We’re concerned about the road network tact, roads act as channels for water and in the national forests. My environ- we have and the fact that it’s two and a half contribute further to the erosion of lands mental friends may not agree with me times the size of the national highway sys- and streams. The overall effect is that the on that issue, but I believe it is sus- tem, which is amazing,’’ said Jim Lyons, the streams and rivers fill with silt, the sci- tainable, logging in the national for- Agriculture Department Under Secretary entists say, and the shallower waters mean ests. who oversees the Forest Service. ‘‘Our No. 1 ruined fish habitats and more flooding. But there are some environmental water quality problem in the National For- ‘‘It took only one-half the water in 1996 to est System is roads. impacts we have to be concerned with, cause the same damage as the floods in 1974 The opposition to logging roads has because the river flooded so much more eas- because when we cut the trees and reached the point, some national conserva- ily,’’ said Barry Rosenberg of the Inland Em- make the logs it allows more water to tion groups say, that they expect it to spark pire Public Lands Council. flow down the mountainside into the one of the biggest environmental fight in Roads reduce the complement of fish spe- streams, taking all the silt that builds Congress this session. cies in an area, said Chip Corsi, a biologist at up in there and the rocks and such, and ‘‘This is going to be a pretty big show- the Idaho Fish and Game Department. Re- it has caused damage to streams out down,’’ said Marty Hayden, senior policy an- searchers have found that as little as 1.7 alyst for the Sierra Club Legal Defense West, so there are some environmental miles of roads per square mile of forest have Fund, of a proposed amendment that would that effect. Mr. Corsi said, adding, ‘‘And here impacts that we have to be concerned slash money for the roads. we have from 4 to 10 to 15 to up to 20 miles with. The amendment, offered by Representative of road per square mile—so it’s extreme.’’ If Members are fiscal conservatives, Joseph P. Kennedy 2d, a Massachusetts Dem- He added that roads can also hurt some if they believe in smaller Government, ocrat and John Edward Porter, an Illinois forms of wildlife by opening their areas of if they want to reduce the size and Republican, would prevent the Forest Serv- the forest to other species, whether noxious scope of the Government, this is a good ice from using taxpayer money to build weeds or human beings. amendment. roads in national forest. The measure has But the greatest damage roads do, Mr. Let me conclude with a couple of support from both environmentally inclined Corsl and others said, is to watersheds, and lawmakers and fiscal conservatives who op- warnings to that effect have been coming quotes from some editorials, lots of pose corporate subsidies, joined in an alli- from scientists and environmentalists for editorials around the country. One is ance known as the Green Scissors. decades. The heavy flooding in the North- from my area of Florida and Tampa. The timber industry and its allies are west in 1996—including landslides that cost This is a conservative newspaper, by fighting the measure, saying that construc- several lives—focused particular attention the way. Their editorial says, ‘‘This tion of the roads has dropped significantly— on the perils of forest roads. issue,’’ talking about logging, ‘‘should to 483 miles in 1996, at a cost of $74.3 million Last June, the proposal by Representatives unite both conservatives who want to from 1.311 miles in 1991, at a cost of $1.409 Kennedy and Porter that the Government cut to Big Government and environ- million. stop reimbursing the timber companies for The American Forest and Paper Associa- road construction lost by just one vote in the mentalists who want to stop the de- tion, an industry group in Washington, D.C., House. The new head of the Forest Service, struction of America’s woodlands.’’ It also challenges the assertion that the Gov- Michael Dombeck, said when he was ap- says, ‘‘The issue for Congress should be ernment has been misspending money for pointed in February that the national for- easy. Washington shouldn’t spend tax- logging roads. Frank Stewart, the groups ests’ roadless areas should be preserved. payers’ money to despoil public re- spokesman, said a recent Price-Waterhouse The construction of roads in the national sources.’’ report commissioned by the association forests has already shrunk significantly. Mr. From USA Today yesterday, let me found ‘‘that, no, this is an efficient and effec- Lyons said that under the Forest Service’s read one paragraph. ‘‘Fact is, the road- tive way to fund road reconstruction’’ in na- current proposed budget, it would build only tional forests. 8 miles of new roads and timber purchasers building subsidy is an anachronism, a The Forest Service has obliterated more would build an additional 300 miles, of which fossil from the last century when Fed- than 18,000 miles of roads in the last six 132.6 miles would be in currently roadless eral policy was aimed not at managing years while just 4,575 miles of roads were areas. More than 2,000 miles of road would be resources but rather enhancing eco- constructed, the Price-Waterhouse report reconstructed. nomic development and westward ex- noted. Even that is too much for environmental- pansion. Well, times change. The rail- The Clinton Administration is taking ists, who argue that the money should be roads now stretch from sea to sea. The something of a middle position, Mr. Lyons spent on repairing old roads to minimize the land has been tamed. Let the timber said, requesting only a small amount for new damage they cause. roads in comparison to what it is asking for According to calculations by Public Em- industry pay its own way, or at least maintaining, reconstructing and obliterating ployees for Environmental Responsibility, a pay for its own roads.’’ logging roads in the national forests. whistle-blower group of Federal, state and Mr. Chairman, I include for the But the Administration is also, for the local workers in resource management, the RECORD three newspaper articles: first time, pushing for the abolition of the Forest Service loses millions of dollars each July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5105 year on timber sales; in extreme cases, the development and westward expansion. Well, construction of roads, which is envi- group says, road building can cost the agen- times change. The railroads now stretch ronmentally benign. Some of it will cy $1,000 for just $100 worth of timber. But from sea to sea. The land has been tamed. even be used for removal. the cost of building roads and the price of Let the timber industry pay its own way, or I had hoped to come to the floor to timber vary tremendously. at least for its own roads. In areas like the North Fork of the Coeur add funds to maintenance and add d’Alene River here, state employees worry WHY WASTE MONEY ON LOGGING ROADS? funds to removal, but it is not allowed under the bizarre rules under which we that there is not even enough money in the Washington spends about $30 million a budget to maintain the roads that exist, let year subsidizing the construction of logging consider appropriations bills at this alone to obliterate them. roads in national forests. These roads cause point. Viewed from the air, the forest is so ringed erosion, pollute creeks and deface the wilder- There is a $440 million backlog, ev- and edged and swirled with roads that in ness. They are blamed for landslides that oc- erybody admits to that, for mainte- places it looks patterned in paisley. It is be- curred during the flooding in the Northwest nance. But they are saying, we are just cause of areas like this that the discussion in last year. cutting construction and reconstruc- Congress is expected to be so charged. As U.S. Rep. Elizabeth Furse, an Oregon ‘‘Part of the problem,’’ Mr. Lyons said, ‘‘is tion. No, you are not just cutting con- Democrat who is working with both Repub- struction and reconstruction. Much of trying to sit down and explain to people licans and Democrats to get rid of the sub- what you need in terms of road maintenance sidies, says, ‘‘First we pay to build them. that backlog is reconstruction, and re- and reconstruction and obliteration to pro- Then every time there is a flood, the public construction is maintenance to the tect the resource—to deal with salmon habi- has to pay for it again.’’ rest of us in the world, but not to the tat and things that matter in the Northwest. The House of Representatives is scheduled pointy heads down at the Forest Serv- There is this perception all the money we re- this week to review a proposal to cut or ice. We need to get that work done. quest for roads goes into building new eliminate the subsidies. President Clinton Reducing purchaser credits by one- roads.’’ favors eliminating the expense. half, which the gentleman from Wash- This issue should unite both conservatives [From USA Today, July 9, 1997] ington, Mr. NORM DICKS, does with this who want to cut Big Government and envi- amendment, by 50 percent according to TIMBER! LET SUBSIDIES FALL ronmentalists who want to stop the destruc- the Clinton administration, I checked Congress this week will try again to end tion of America’s woodlands. the ridiculous practice of paying loggers mil- The timber industry defends the expense, with them on this, will eliminate all lions to build roads. saying the roads also allow for greater rec- new road building, including any roads More than 100 years ago, in 1891, Congress reational use of the forests. That’s so much into roadless areas, under the pur- created the National Forest Reserve as a sawdust. chaser credit program. That is the way means of protecting the nation’s woodlands There already are more than 380,000 miles they would use that reduction. and increasingly muddied watersheds from of logging roads carved through the forests. What will the other $25 million go to? the scouring clear-cuts inflicted by the 19th This is eight times the length of the inter- It will go to maintenance, which the state highway system. century timber industry. Forest Service calls reconstruction. It Like many good resource-management Hunters, hikers and others do not lack for ideas in those bad old robber-baron days, the access to the national forests. Outdoors en- will go to Aufderheide Drive, the most protections didn’t last long. In 1897, Congress thusiasts would much prefer clean creeks heavily used recreational road in my voted to permit logging in the reserves, and and pristine forests to more roads and addi- district in the Willamette National the ensuing swarm of timber industry pay- tional erosion. Forest. It will go to other critical outs and subsidies continues to finagle tax- The issue for Congress should be easy. roads that have been identified in the payer dollars today. Among the most egre- Washington shouldn’t spend taxpayers’ President’s forest plan as needing im- gious: a program through which taxpayers money to despoil public resources. mediate removal, reconstruction, re- spend millions of dollars a year to build Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. pair, or upgrading, because they roads that logging companies use to harvest Chairman, I yield myself 15 seconds. I cut-rate federal timber. present dangers to watersheds and fish. There is much to complain about when it want to respond to the gentleman from That is what this is all about. comes to timber sales, which routinely cost Washington [Mr. NETHERCUTT], who in- It is well-intentioned on the part of the Treasury hundreds of millions of dollars dicated this is a program which sup- these gentlemen, and I do not want to a year. But the issue at hand is far narrower. ports small businesses. The truth of subsidize the industry. No one can ac- For the second year running, a bipartisan the matter is that out of the 12,000 cuse me of that. So what, the gen- congressional alliance of environmentalists companies, only 33 of them are small tleman from Washington, Mr. NORM and budget hawks will try Thursday to end businesses, and they represent 4 per- DICKS, is proposing will eliminate the the road-building subsidy, valued this year cent of the total road building program at $41 million in direct costs. Last year’s ef- roads into the roadless areas, it will fort failed on a tie vote. in our national forests in this country. eliminate the new road construction More power to them. The program survives Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 under purchaser credits. If you buy on spurious rationales. minutes to the distinguished gen- into the argument by eliminating these Supporters say the roads open the forest to tleman from Oregon [Mr. DEFAZIO]. monies, you do that. You cannot have recreation. But have you ever tried driving Mr. DeFAZIO. Mr. Chairman, we the language in the bill. That is not al- on one? When they are passable at all, they have too many miles of forest roads. lowed. And it will put enough money usually lead to vast fields of deadwood and There is absolutely no question, 380,000 back into the construction and recon- slash, hardly places that invite picnicking or miles is too much. But thousands of other pleasures. Moreover, the roads contrib- struction program to do what the Clin- ute to runoff that ruins fishing streams. Or miles, though, one cannot just walk ton administration wants to do, to re- isn’t fishing a recreation? away from too many miles of road and construct problem roads across western And it’s not as though we don’t have from poorly constructed roads. We Oregon, Washington, the western Unit- enough roads already. The national forests have thousands of miles of roads in ed States, that they have identified are are latticed by 377,000 miles of roads, almost need of maintenance. in need of immediate upgrade, imme- nine times the length of the interstate high- Unfortunately, the Forest Service diate maintenance, and they unfortu- way system. In some places, there may be 20 often calls that reconstruction. If you nately call reconstruction. miles of road per square mile of forest, as take a 6-inch culvert and replace it What we really need is to have a de- dense as some cities. Does the road-building subsidy have eco- with a 12 because it is blocked, that is bate where we make a more rational nomic importance? Hard to see how. The na- not maintenance, that is reconstruc- forest policy in this country and a tional forests account for only about 4% of tion. That would be virtually elimi- more rational roads policy at the For- the nation’s timber production, hardly nated by the Kennedy–Porter amend- est Service, in the authorization com- enough to affect prices or jobs. Other factors ment. mittees, and bring that to the floor to are far more influential. Between 1950 and The Dicks amendment takes the ap- the debate, as opposed to what we are 1994, the timber harvest increased by 64%, propriated funds down to the level re- doing here tonight, because we cannot while employment in the wood and paper in- quested by the Clinton-Gore adminis- dustries fell 4%. get at the real problem. Fact is, the road-building subsidy is an tration for construction-reconstruc- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield anachronism, a fossil from the last century tion. I can guarantee the Members 2 minutes to the gentlewoman from when federal policy was aimed not at manag- most of that budget, virtually all of Idaho [Mrs. CHENOWETH], chairman of ing resources but rather enhancing economic that budget, is going to be used for re- the authorization subcommittee. H5106 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Mrs. CHENOWETH. Mr. Chairman, the Mr. Chairman, I think that our col- I chaired this committee on the For- 1998 appropriations bill will fund the recon- league and friend, the chairman of the est Service for a while, had a lot to do struction of 160 miles of damaged Forest subcommittee, raised the question be- with it. I think the gentleman from Service roads. Through the purchaser credits fore. He said if you have too many Washington [Mr. NETHERCUTT] came up program an additional 2,000 miles of roads will roads already and you cannot maintain with some very good things. These be reconstructed. Reconstruction will protect them, then why are we going to build folks say that there is no recreation. It riparian systems, provide access for forest more? is obvious where they are coming from. health projects, and wildfire prevention. The b 2115 I have spent my life in the outback in Kennedy-Porter amendment will eliminate Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, that area. I was these programs, including reconstruction, That is really what this big fight is a guide at one time. I think I under- which will lead to an overall demise of the re- all about, because we are falling be- stand it very well. source. hind. We have the 380,000 miles of Let me just say, they are used for By effectively eliminating the roads program, roads. We cannot maintain them. And recreation, about 90 percent. All these the Kennedy-Porter amendment will seal the we get studies that come back that roads that are going to be built, they fate of thousands of small timber companies look at the economic aspects, but they are going to have people who hunt, and businesses that depend upon the Forest do not look at any of the physical as- fish, camp, watch birds, and they are Road Program. pects, the nontangible aspects in terms going to be on it. What I worry about Mr. Chairman, I find two very inter- of what is happening with these roads is so-called Joe Sixpack, which a lot of esting common threads running with in terms of fragmentation, in terms of us may fall into that category. I worry the sponsors of the Porter-Kennedy erosion. about the guy that does not have the amendment. None of the sponsors that All these issues we have been talking opportunity to go out on that land, are from the Republican side, anyway, about are being compounded by a pro- take his camper, take his kids, put up and I do not believe the gentleman gram that is basically out of control. a tent and enjoy it for a little bit. from Massachusetts [Mr. KENNEDY], This does not cut down timber sales. We are saying to him, you cannot do have any forest roads in their district. The BLM, the BIA, the State programs this anymore. A guy I really worry They do not serve on any of the natural do not rely upon the type of program about a lot and I know you folks in the resources subcommittees. that the Forest Service has instituted East probably do not watch what goes Furthermore, I find it interesting, that has built all these roads. And the on in the West, but do my colleagues these same individuals will debate fact is that most of these roads, 80 per- know what is going to happen this strenuously for a subsidy to the NEA, cent of them have nothing to do with year? $99.5 million last year. They debated or little to do with recreation. In fact, Let me tell you something. I do not strenuously for a subsidy for people’s if that were the case, we could not have have to be a prophet to say this. It just pleasure. Yet, we find them all excited recreated any of these forests before happens to be the gospel truth. We are about road credits, which are not a the roads were built. We know that is going to have fires like you have never subsidy. I know these are intelligent not accurate. seen before. We have got all of this people, and I know they understand the When we talk about small business, water that came out. Now it has difference between subsidies and road the definition of small business is 500 stopped. Now up come these things. credits. There are no direct subsidies employees or more in these forest in- Guess what is going to happen? Last going from the Federal Government to dustries Road Credit Program. You say year we had more fires than we have timber companies. this is a small business program. Of the ever had. Furthermore, I want to make it clear 13,000 companies involved, only about As one of the senior members of the that in 1996, small business brought 75 30, 35 of them do not qualify for the Committee on National Security, I am percent of the U.S. timber, 75 percent. purchase or credits. What this is is we always amazed how all these people It is not the great big timber compa- are setting up a bank account. We are want to buy all these old airplanes and nies. The gentleman from Washington borrowing out the money, and we are put them back together. Guess what [Mr. NETHERCUTT] was absolutely right. not even checking what is happening in those fires cost us last year? $1.2 bil- I want to ask the sponsor of this terms of what the consequence of the lion. amendment, if it will not affect the road building results. When you talk to the firefighters lives of his constituents, it will affect The consequences are turning out to they say, but there are no roads to get the lives of mine. I ask him to explain be a program that is out of control, in. Fine, do it on helicopters that cost to the children who live in Elk City that is heavily subsidized. I admit that $500 an hour. Jump out of those things and Grangeville, ID, and the children of this particular procedure is a blunt in- and get yourself killed. That is all other timber-dependent communities strument in terms of dealing with this right. throughout the country how they will issue. We should deal with it much Are we worried about those people? I make up the funding they count on for more surgically. But that is not the sure am. I think they are very impor- their schools that come out of timber choice we have in terms of this rule or tant. I worry a lot about the people sales. what is presented today in this cham- who run stock in that area. I worry I ask him to tell the sawmill owner ber. about the people, the young people of in Bonners Ferry, ID, how he can now The choice we have tonight is to vote America. afford to purchase a timber sale to up an amendment that will in fact I built the house I lived in in 1968. I keep his mill operating. The Kennedy- eliminate or stop this particular waste- paid 83 cents for a 2-by-4. Now they are Porter amendment will effectively shut ful subsidized program, not stop timber around $4 apiece. Let us see what that down the national forests. If we pass cutting, saying you are going to do it means to the price. this amendment today, our hands are the way the BLM does it, you are going So in a way, if you are a fiscal con- tied. Fighting wildfires and addressing to do it the way the States do it. It will servative, you will vote against the forest health problems will be nearly continue timber cutting but on a busi- Kennedy bill and you will vote for the impossible. ness basis not on the basis of Federal gentleman from Washington [Mr. Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. Government subsidy but on the basis of DICKS], my good friend, on this particu- Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- business economics the market place lar bill. tleman from Minnesota [Mr. VENTO]. not the Federal dole. Carrying that on, if you want to see (Mr. VENTO asked and was given Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 the cost of this thing go up, if you want permission to revise and extend his re- minutes to the gentleman from Utah a tax increase, vote for Porter-Ken- marks.) [Mr. HANSEN] chairman of the Sub- nedy. You will get a tax increase, I will Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, I rise in committee on National Parks and Pub- promise you that. support of the Kennedy amendment, lic Lands. If you want to hold taxes down, do and am opposed to the amendment of Mr. HANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I thank not do it. These folks in a way are say- my good friend, the gentleman from the gentleman for yielding me this ing, let us give a tax increase to Amer- Washington [Mr. DICKS], my classmate. time. ica. Let us burn the West, and that is July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5107 what they are saying. Go ahead and urge support of this bipartisan amend- Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I rise laugh. That just happens to be the gos- ment. in strong support of the Porter-Ken- pel truth. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield nedy amendment to promote fiscal re- Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. 2 minutes to the gentleman from Ari- sponsibility and protect our natural re- Chairman, I yield myself 35 seconds. zona [Mr. SHADEGG]. sources. I think it is clear that the I just want to point out that the (Mr. SHADEGG asked and was given American people want us to get our fis- truth of the matter is that this bill has permission to revise and extend his re- cal house in order. And it is equally nothing to do with taxes. Whenever marks.) clear that they want us to protect the there is an issue that Members feel Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, this environment. The Porter-Kennedy they are going to lose, they say it is debate is not about corporate welfare amendment accomplishes both of these going to mean taxes. This time we are and it is not about the Federal budget. goals by eliminating an unwise Federal going to hear that we will create fires. It is about proper land management of subsidy which benefits large corpora- The only thing this legislation does our forests, our land. If you owned a tions and harms our national forests. is stop new roads for the exclusive pur- piece of land, would you let someone I do not oppose timbering on public poses of building those roads for log- else come in and build a road on your lands. I understand the importance of ging. All the funds remain in this bill piece of land and let them control accessibility to timber sales. But we al- that are contained for the purposes of where that road was, what the quality ready have 380,000 miles of roads in our recreational roads and for fire preven- of the road was going to be, and wheth- national forests. That is eight times tion or other forest management pur- er the road was going to be permanent the size of our interstate highway sys- poses. or temporary and receded? Absolutely tem. And most of those roads can be All the funds remain in this bill for not. That is what this debate is about. used only by timber companies and are recreation, fire prevention and any It is not about corporate welfare. It is not suited for recreational use. other purpose other than logging roads. about who manages that decision. It is time that American citizens Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to I talked to professional foresters stopped subsidizing the construction of the gentlewoman from New York [Mrs. today about this issue. They make it more logging roads. LOWEY]. very clear, that the purchase road cred- It is important to note that this Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, this is it program allows them to manage amendment does not affect, let me not about raising taxes. It is not often these decisions. I listened just a few that we have an opportunity to en- minutes ago to one of my colleagues stress, this amendment does not affect hance environmental protection, re- come to the floor and say, if you are a the funding of the Forest Service for duce the deficit and end corporate tax fiscal conservative or if you are an en- the maintenance of existing roads, nor subsidies in one single vote. But that is vironmentalist, you will support the does it hamper the construction of rec- exactly what this amendment offers us Porter-Kennedy amendment. The abso- reational or general purpose roads. today. lute opposite is true. If you are a fiscal It simply says that if a timber com- For years the Forest Service has pro- conservative, you would understand pany needs to build another road to vided taxpayer-funded subsidies to tim- that there is no subsidy here. reach another timber sale, the com- ber companies to construct nearly The timber companies do not keep pany, not the American taxpayer, 400,000 miles of logging roads through the roads. We keep the roads. should pay for it. our national forests. These subsidies Recreationalists use the roads. And our I think that makes perfect sense. So, not only provide a handout to the tim- professional forest managers need to too, do the Citizens Against Govern- ber industry for costs they should be design where those roads go, the qual- ment Waste. So, too, do the Taxpayers paying on their own, they also under- ity of the road and whether it is a per- for Common Sense and the Wilderness write activities that take a serious toll manent or a temporary road. It is not Society and the U.S. Public Interest on our forests’ fragile ecology. These also about the environment. If we Research Group. The list goes on and are the habitats for a diverse array of allow the timber companies to build on. fish and wildlife, including many the road with their own money, they Support U.S. taxpayers and the envi- threatened and endangered species. will bulldoze the cheapest, quickest ronment. Support the Kennedy–Porter Logging roads fragment habitats, in- road they can get in and do as much amendment. crease erosion and siltation into rivers environmental damage as may happen. Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 21⁄4 and streams. If we design the road through the pur- minutes to the gentleman from Mis- As for the expense to taxpayers, the chase credit program, then we can pro- sissippi [Mr. PARKER]. General Accounting Office estimates tect the environment. Mr. PARKER. Mr. Chairman, I thank that between 1992 and 1994, the logging This is a debate full of red herrings. the gentleman for yielding me the road program cost the Treasury more It is a debate that misses the point. time. than $245 million. And just for a point The fundamental issue here is that the To my good friends from Illinois and of reference, that is almost three times Forest Service should be designing Massachusetts sponsoring this amend- the cost of the entire budget for the these roads and we should be forcing ment, I think it is well-intentioned, National Endowment for the Arts. timber companies to pay for them. The but they do not know the difference be- This amendment is plain common current Forest Service credit program tween a skidder and a knuckle boom. sense. Trout Unlimited, hardly a bas- does that. If we abandon this program, b 2130 tion of environmental extremism, is the forest timber companies will bid, among the many groups supporting will estimate the cost of the roads at I must tell my colleagues that I do this measure. Let us be very clear. This the highest possible figure. They will not care for the Dicks amendment a amendment will not prohibit timber reduce their bid for the timber by that whole lot. I am going to support it sim- companies from building new logging amount of money. The net effect will ply because it is better than the roads. It simply says, do so at your own be less money to the Federal Treasury. amendment of the gentleman from expense; go build them but pay for it at It is not about reducing a corporate Massachusetts, because this gentle- your own expense, not with taxpayer subsidy because there is no corporate man’s amendment is devastating. dollars. Do not expect the taxpayers to subsidy. We do not have to have roads in na- give you a handout. Is that not what The fact is right now the bid price in- tional forests. All we have to do is welfare reform is all about? The Forest cludes the cost of building the road. I allow people an easement to go in, cut Service’s logging road construction urge my colleagues to vote against the the timber and come out. I would agree program epitomizes the kind of waste- Porter-Kennedy amendment. that it would be a subsidy if that log- ful, environmentally destructive cor- Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 ging company or that logger took the porate welfare program that we have a minutes to the gentleman from New road with him. But he does not keep duty, a responsibility, to terminate as York [Mr. BOEHLERT]. the road, he leaves it there for the Fed- we move toward a balanced budget. (Mr. BOEHLERT asked and was given eral Government to have. My colleagues, for all those who want permission to revise and extend his re- I must tell my colleagues that that to move towards a balanced budget, I marks.) road is not just any road. In the private H5108 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 sector they go in and they build tem- found in Idaho that 70 percent of the national forests. They receive 25 per- porary roads. And those temporary 422 landslides were associated with cent of the gross receipts from timber roads, they do not last. They are tem- these Forest Service logging roads. sales in lieu of property taxes on Fed- porary. But I must also tell my col- Over two-thirds of the roads built in eral lands. They cannot tax Federal leagues that the roads that the Federal our national forests are logging roads land property, so it is important for us Government requires, the Forest Serv- constructed primarily to access timber to be supported by the Government in ice says it must be built to these cer- sales. There is no good reason why the our rural school districts. tain specifications. They are inter- Forest Service should be in the busi- In my State, loss of funding would states without blacktop. They have got ness of constructing these roads on be- place an unbearable burden on rural drainage, concrete, culverts. Every- half of the timber companies. The For- school districts because of the number thing we would ever want on a road, est Service should follow the lead of of acres of Federal land in our State they have it. the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the that cannot be taxed. We are talking Why would we ever expect a timber Bureau of Land Management and re- $28.2 million for schools and roads, 76 company or a logger to go in on that quire the timber companies to build percent of the timber receipts in my property and build to the specifications their own roads at their own cost. State, because of the impact of Federal that the Federal Government de- These companies can figure out where regulation. manded and then turn around and say, it is economical to build a road and I stand in opposition, Mr. Chairman, ‘‘By the way, you have invested in make a timber sale and where it is not. and urge my colleagues to vote against that; you cannot take any credit what- By building these roads for these the Porter-Kennedy and in favor of the soever.’’ It is ludicrous. companies, the Forest Service facili- Dicks amendment. There is one other point that is even tates logging in many areas that would Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 more ludicrous. My home county, not otherwise be profitable. Last year minute to the gentleman from Georgia Franklin County, MS, Meadville, 490 87 percent of the logging operations in [Mr. CHAMBLISS]. people, all good people, 70 percent of our national forests lost money for the Mr. CHAMBLISS. Mr. Chairman, my the county is national forest. Forest Service. Why? Because we are perspective on this is a little different Homochitto National Forest. They tell building roads for timber companies to from most of these folks that have me in my home county that, if the log in areas that should never have been up here tonight. I come from the amendment of the gentleman from been logged and are not economical. Southeast, but my district is the sec- Massachusetts passes, that we are As a result of this backward policy, ond largest timber producing district going to cut revenue in timber sales by making our national forests into a log- in the country. And whether one is in 40 percent. What does that do? ging highway, we now have 378,000 the Southeast or the Northwest, the I ask the supporters of this amend- miles of road crisscrossing the acres of issue is the same when it comes to ment, I would like to find out from forest not designated as wilderness. proper forest management. In order to them, what will they say to the school- Our forests contain enough road to cir- have proper forest management, we children that will be devastated by the cle the globe 14 times over. Imagine have to have control of burning and we loss of revenue that we use to educate that. That is equivalent to one and a have to have the removal of dead and those children. The money that the half miles of road per square mile of diseased trees. Federal Government is going to keep land. It is 50 percent more road than in In order to get those dead and dis- them from having because the county non-Forest Service land. eased trees and to control burning, we This amendment is not going to stop is owned basically by the Federal Gov- have to have access to those forests. roads from being built in our national ernment. What will we do? Without the construction of roads, we forests, but it will stop taxpayers from It is a sad representation that this do not have that access. It is a very, footing the bill for timber roads. Sup- amendment will do anything good for very simple issue. our economy. port the amendment. Once those roads are constructed, Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield they are not only used for removal of Chairman, I yield myself 30 seconds. 11⁄2 minutes to the gentlewoman from these trees and controlled burning, Mr. Chairman, I want to show the the State of Washington [Ms. DUNN]. they are used by hikers, by campers, by gentleman from Mississippi his idea of Ms. DUNN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in bird watchers, by hunters, by fisher- an interstate highway. This is in fact opposition to the Porter amendment men; all folks ought to have access to the real truth about what happens on and in favor of the Dicks substitute. public lands. these logging roads. I want to talk on a couple of points I These logging roads are built by the have heard here today. The first one is If this amendment passes, every sin- American taxpayer. The companies, in that there is no subsidy for the timber gle Member of this House will have fact, get a huge subsidy from the roads in this legislation. As the gentle- constituents that are negatively af- American taxpayer. And the American woman from Ohio told us earlier, ac- fected. I urge a no vote on the Ken- taxpayer is then forced to maintain cording to a recent economic analysis nedy-Porter amendment. these roads. It is a terrible subsidy. It released by Price Waterhouse: ‘‘The Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 should stop. And we are talking about forest roads program does not contain minutes to the gentlewoman from 8 miles worth of roads in this amend- a subsidy for timber purchases; it pro- Maryland [Mrs. MORELLA]. ment. Eight miles. vides an efficient and effective mecha- Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to nism for financing road construction thank the gentleman for yielding me the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. and reconstruction.’’ this time, and I rise to give my strong MORAN]. These roads are primarily used in the support to the Porter-Kennedy amend- Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Chair- national forest system for recreation, ment. man, I rise in support of the Porter- Mr. Chairman. Ninety-seven percent of It is really a win-win situation. First Kennedy amendment because eliminat- the road system in any given national of all, the Forest Service will save over ing the logging road subsidy will stop forest is used for recreational purposes half the amount it annually spends on those sales that lose the most money by the public. I do not think that is a the construction and reconstruction of and are the most environmentally subsidy. They are used by folks who roads. It will spend $41.5 million in- harmful. want to go up and see the wildlife, or stead of $89.5 million. Logging road construction, particu- by the disabled, for years by my family Second, almost no timber industry larly on steep, unstable slopes, dra- when we did hiking in the North Cas- jobs will be lost, since only 4 percent of matically increases the risk of land- cades and never would have gotten into all timber comes from our national for- slides, erosion and siltation into that territory without access to these ests and many of the construction streams. And this picture demonstrates timber roads. workers will still be hired if the log- what I am talking about. After the Second, Mr. Chairman, it is very im- ging company wants to build a road. winter storms in the last 2 years in the portant that we consider the rural And the riparian ecology would be Pacific Northwest, the Forest Service counties that are located next to these left unchanged for future generations. July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5109 Of course, I believe that environ- amendment is nothing but a pig in a I would just quote to my colleagues mental concerns are of paramount im- poke. The fact of the matter is logs do from a letter from the 225,000 members portance, and this amendment pre- not fly. They will not sprout wings and of the International Association of Fire serves the environment. However, eco- fly out of the forests, and somebody Fighters, who say that ‘‘the forest nomics makes passage of this amend- will have to pay for these logging roads program and the purchaser road ment essential. roads. credit program are essential to provid- I believe that Paul Roberts summa- Now, contracts for timber are let ex- ing safe passage for fire fighters and rized the economic impact in his sober- actly the same way a contract would protecting our national forests and sur- ing Harper’s magazine article, ‘‘The be let to build a building or parking lot rounding communities from cata- Federal Chainsaw Massacre,’’ when he or anything else. There is a sale price strophic wildfires.’’ We urge our col- wrote, ‘‘According to government and and cost of sales, and then there is a leagues to oppose the Kennedy amend- independent auditors, once realistic ac- back charge or credit the cost, espe- ment and any other efforts to reduce counting methods are applied, most cially of capital improvements, into funding for forest roads construction Federal forests actually lose money.’’ the sale price. and maintenance. Why then do Members continue to These roads are going to get built, The International Association of Fire hear from timber interests in support unless we plan to end timber harvest Fighters are joined by several other of this Federal subsidy? Well, it seems completely in this country, which important national labor organizations to me there is a simple explanation. would be a terrible idea. We will not in opposing this amendment, including Would we not want to have government end up saving money, because the bids the United Paperworkers International pay if it is willing to do so? will have to be lowered in order to Union, the Association of Western Pulp What we need to ask is, is this sub- cover this capital expense. and Paperworkers, and the United sidy beneficial to the public? Is it prof- So let us defeat this amendment and Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners itable? Do we believe that it is the get on with the business of approving of America. duty of government? To all of these I this Interior appropriations. Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 Mr. NETHERCUTT. Mr. Chairman, think the answer is no. minutes to the distinguished gen- what is the relative time left in the de- I do not oppose logging but I do op- tleman from Michigan [Mr. STUPAK]. bate? pose unnecessary and wasteful sub- Mr. STUPAK. Mr. Chairman, I thank The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman sidies. Timber users should pay the the gentleman for yielding. from Ohio [Mr. REGULA] has 11 minutes I rise in opposition to the Kennedy- same fair costs for their product as remaining, the gentleman from Wash- they would in the 96 percent of private Porter amendment. This amendment ington [Mr. DICKS] has 103⁄4 minutes re- would have a devastating impact on lands available for logging. maining, the gentleman from Illinois In 1992–94 the GAO found that, while the health of our national forests, jobs, [Mr. PORTER] has 111⁄2 minutes remain- timber sales in our national forests re- small businesses, recreation, edu- ing, and the gentleman from Massachu- turned $302 million to the Treasury, cation, local government. setts [Mr. KENNEDY] has 101⁄2 minutes taxpayers spent $1.298 billion in admin- In a letter from the Society of Amer- remaining. istrative costs; a net loss of $995 mil- Mr. NETHERCUTT. Mr. Chairman, I ican Foresters, one of the oldest con- lion. yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from servation organizations in the world This amendment will also reduce the and which is widely respected as the California [Mr. RIGGS]. number of timber sales that lose leader in forestry science, they state money. It is highly unlikely that a log- b 2145 that the Kennedy-Porter amendment ging company would be willing to ac- Mr. RIGGS. Mr. Chairman, I want to would have a negative impact on forest cept the risk of constructing a road for thank the gentleman for yielding to health. The letter states, and I quote: sale where it is going to cost more to me. Forest roads are the single most important access, log and transport the trees than I just want to tell my colleagues that infrastructure component that supports nat- would be recouped at current free mar- I think we went through this debate ural resources professionals in the mainte- ket timber values. about a year ago, that this debate real- nance of healthy forest ecosystems. I hope this House will join me in sup- ly has a deja vu view quality. To quote In addition, the Kennedy-Porter porting this very reasonable and im- Yogi Berra, ‘‘It feels like deja vu all amendment would have a devastating portant amendment. over again.’’ impact on jobs and small businesses Mr. NETHERCUTT. Mr. Chairman, I We seem to talk right past one an- across the country. According to the yield 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman other on this one particular issue. Forest Service, timber harvesting an- from Idaho [Mr. CRAPO]. There is this enormous continental di- nually supports over 64,000 jobs, which Mr. CRAPO. Mr. Chairman, I join vide that somehow separates us from results in over $337 million in Federal with many of my colleagues who to- ever reaching any kind of middle income tax revenues. Small businesses night have spoken in opposition to the ground on this particular issue. I just purchase two-thirds of the timber har- Kennedy-Porter amendment. find it fascinating and, yes, distressing vested in national forests. This is not an issue of corporate sub- that people, representatives, well-in- Contrary to what supporters say of sidy or corporate welfare. As the Price tentioned in this body, who represent the Kennedy-Porter amendment or as Waterhouse study has shown, with or largely urban districts, whether they they have tried to portray, 97 percent without the purchaser road credit, the be in Massachusetts, Illinois, New of forest roads are open for rec- net receipts to the Federal Government York, Florida, Northern Virginia, reational use. That means for everyone from this program will not change. And Maryland, wherever it might be, appar- from hunters to fishers, mountain the administration has affirmed that. ently have no understanding nor any bikers, snowmobilers, hikers, and most Many of the points I wanted to make appreciation for the concerns of us that importantly, of course, fire fighters. tonight have already been made, and I represent these districts that are home All benefit from forest roads. think it is important that someone to timber-dependent communities. Finally, supporters claim that this from the Northeast have an oppor- Now, make no mistake about it, this forest program is a subsidy. This is bla- tunity to speak on this side who would is bad policy. These are public roads tantly false. As has been repeatedly not otherwise have an opportunity be- that provide public access to Federal said tonight, the Price Waterhouse re- cause of the limited time we have and, forest lands for a variety of purposes. port concludes that the road program therefore, I yield the remainder of my And I thought we wanted to encourage is not a subsidy. time to the gentleman from New the idea of multiple use of Federal for- Mr. Chairman, the Kennedy-Porter Hampshire [Mr. BASS]. est lands. It is going to further reduce amendment is well intended but com- Mr. BASS. Mr. Chairman, I thank my PILT payments, payments in lieu of plete ill-advised. Those of us who de- colleague from Idaho. taxes, to local communities and local pend upon the forest for our living in I want to say a couple of things. First schools. It is going to worsen forest northern Michigan, we know. I urge all of all, from my perspective, from the health and exacerbate the fire damage Members here to oppose this amend- perspective of a businessman, this on Federal forest lands. ment and cast a vote in favor of local H5110 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 government, forest health, small busi- built. What it does not allow is for the this amendment might really under- nesses, recreation, education and jobs. taxpayer to pay so that a company can stand this if the Federal Government Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 go in, take public timber, take the thought about taking over and occupy- minutes to the gentlewoman from Or- profit, and we pay for the roads. ing more of their State. But this seems egon [Ms. FURSE]. Do we pay just once? No. The tax- to be an issue that is of great concern Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. payer pays three times for these roads. out in the West. Chairman, I add an additional 3 min- The taxpayer pays to build the road, Now what about those forest areas utes to the time of the gentlewoman the subsidy. The taxpayer pays to and those lands where the timber sale from Oregon [Ms. FURSE]. maintain the road, another subsidy. may not cover the cost of roads? Those The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman And then the taxpayer comes along and are rare occasions, but they do occur. from Oregon is recognized for 5 min- pays for the flood damage. Do the tim- But I would submit that we still need utes. ber companies pay for the flood dam- to be concerned about logging those Ms. FURSE. Mr. Chairman, I would age? No. The taxpayer pays for the areas, for the following reason: The like to talk a little bit about some of flood damage. We already have 380,000 timber industry and timber harvest is the things I have heard today. I am a miles of road in our national forests. an integral part to sound forest man- sponsor of this amendment and, obvi- So I say that for the sake of fishers, agement. ously, I rise in strong support of the for the sake of the fish, for the sake of Let me show my colleagues what Porter-Kennedy amendment. It would the taxpayer, for the sake of the envi- happens when you do not properly end taxpayer subsidies for the con- ronment, I say it is time to stop the manage a forest. Now the gentleman struction of logging roads in our na- subsidy. over here showed a black-and-white tional forests. People said it is not a And I would like to comment, at the picture of something he believed to be subsidy? USA Today says it is a sub- end, by telling my colleagues that I am a hazard. This is a color picture. This sidy. The Washington Post says it is a in an area which has lots of timber picture is in color. It just looks black- subsidy. companies. I have heard from not one and-white because there is no life left I have heard a great amount of talk timber company that has said they here. Everything is dead. about the recreational needs and how cannot afford to build a road. If they This is what happens when you do people who are recreating would use are not telling us that, if they are will- not get in and thin a forest. The trees these roads and why they would oppose ing to go in and build a road, it is the get crowded. They compete with one this amendment. However, I wanted to cost of doing business. We do not build another for water. They get stressed. point out who does support this amend- a road inside a company and say, ‘‘Gee, The bugs and disease move in. The ment: Trout Unlimited. They recreate; in order for you to do business, we are trees die. They become brittle. They Steelhead Committee of the Federation going to build you a road within your will catch on fire, and it burns to the of Fly Fishers; the Northwest Sports company headquarters.’’ ground and there is nothing left there Fishing Association; the Association of So let us stop the subsidy. Let us lis- for anybody, no wildlife, no valuable Northwest Steelheaders; Idaho Rivers ten to the thousands and thousands of timber, no recreation, nothing. It is our constituents who have said, ‘‘We United; Puget Sound Gill Netters; going to rain here and all of it is going are sick of paying subsidies to compa- Washington Trout. They support this to wash into the river and kill the fish. nies who can well afford to pay them.’’ Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. amendment because they know that Let us listen to the user groups. Let us Chairman, how much time does each this amendment is good for recreaters. listen to the fishers. Let us listen to side have, please? My region has been plagued by cata- the recreational users. Let us say, let The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman strophic floods that triggered hundreds us save some money. Let us stop subsi- from Washington [Mr. DICKS] has 83⁄4 of mud slides. Study after study found dizing. Let us, in fact, give the tax- minutes, the gentleman from Massa- that the majority of these slides were payer a break. Let us support the envi- chusetts [Mr. KENNEDY] has 71⁄2 min- associated with logging roads and the ronment. Let us stop the subsidy. Let utes, The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. clear cuts they accessed. us support the Porter-Kennedy amend- REGULA] has 7 minutes, and the gen- Mud slides also cause job loss. They ment. tleman from Illinois [Mr. PORTER] has destroy the habitat of our imperiled Mr. NETHERCUTT. Mr. Chairman, I 91⁄2 minutes. salmon runs. These fisheries once pro- yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. vided more than 60,000 jobs and reve- Colorado, Mr. BOB SCHAFFER. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- nues to my region annually. But the Mr. BOB SCHAFFER of Colorado. tlewoman from New York [Mrs. runs have gone belly up because, Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman MALONEY]. amongst other things, we have very de- for yielding. Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. structive road-building activity. The real problem here is that the Chairman, I rise in strong support of According to the National Marine Federal Government owns an awful lot the amendment offered by my col- Fisheries, and I quote, ‘‘Road construc- of land. All of us conservatives and leagues, the gentleman from Illinois tion has been a primary source of those who have kind of a libertarian [Mr. PORTER] and the gentleman from salmonid habitat decline.’’ And the perspective on government need to deal Massachusetts [Mr. KENNEDY]. American Fisheries Society, the pro- with that. The real issue is that the This amendment would help protect fessional society of fishery scientists Government owns so much land. the last frontier of our national forest. reports, ‘‘Only rarely can roads be built Now we are not going to resolve that The United States does not need this that have no negative effects on debate here tonight. But given the fact wood. In fact, in 1995 timber companies streams.’’ that the Federal Government owns so exported the equivalent of 500,000 log- So that is why the sports and com- much land, the next question is, since ging truck loads of logs to foreign mercial fishery interests support this we are part of that Government, since countries. These companies were by- amendment, the same groups that I we are, in fact, Members of Congress passing American jobs by exporting the have spoken of before, the Pacific who preside over that body, that en- wood raw. Coast Federation of Fishermen’s Asso- tity, how do we manage properly the Our national forests represent a ciations. That is the largest group of land that we own? major portion of the last remaining un- commercial fishers in the West. These issues are not big issues for touched forest in our country. If we Again, let us look at recreational use private land owners. They manage cannot completely protect this small of roads. Seventy percent of logging their forests properly. In my county remaining percentage of our forests roads are closed to vehicles that are back in Colorado, the county I live in, from the chain saws, the least we can not high vehicles, 70 percent, so the 70 percent of the land in my county is do is prevent the American taxpayers recreational use is not there. It is lim- owned by the Government. Seventy from having to pay some of the bills for ited to logging. percent. These are critical issues for that logging. This amendment allows logging roads us. Let us remember that these Amer- to be built. Want to repeat that. This Now think about that. I think those ican treasures belong to all the Amer- amendment allows logging roads to be of my colleagues who are proposing ican people, not the timber industry or July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5111 foreign countries. End this wasteful ages the forest. He talked this morning tempt to legislate or set policy via the handout. with the man that does the contracts. appropriations process. It is the blunt Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 I know the design engineer that de- instrument that people have ref- minutes to the gentleman from Min- signs the roads. I understand how the erenced. While the passage of this nesota [Mr. OBERSTAR], the distin- system works. The gentlemen may not amendment may in fact slow or stop guished ranking member of the Com- like the system, but what they are some roadwork, it will not achieve mittee on Transportation, a noted ex- doing is not the way to fix it. what some advocates claim. It will not pert on these matters. The Porter-Kennedy amendment is stop logging roads, and it is not clear Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, I like an MX missile on rural Pennsylva- how much, if any, money this will save. thank the gentleman for yielding. nia’s economy and our rural road sys- What we need to do is focus on policy I rise in opposition to the Porter tem. It is devastating. It will harm solutions that make sense for the envi- amendment and in support of the Dicks parts, and even more so in the west, ronment and the economy. We do need, amendment, and might add that my that have 15 and 20 percent unemploy- in fact, additional protections for colleague from across the water in ment. We have a group of urban legisla- roadless areas. We do need to use our northern Wisconsin [Mr. OBEY] joins tors who in my view of listening to all resources more carefully. We do need me in that position. of their testimony know very little to reduce the number of road miles and We sure heard a lot of hyperbole and about this issue and how it really their impact on our national forests imagery tonight. Paul Bunyan, you left works. I mean that sincerely. while we adequately maintain roads to out his ox Babe, and corporate giants. We are playing with the rural econ- avoid degradation of stream and wild- Let me introduce my colleagues to omy of this country and the parts of life habitat. We need to take this op- Tony Vukelich, logger from northern the country that are most struggling portunity to bring the Forest Service, Minnesota, 3 or 4 pulp cutters, maybe economically. We are really cutting $91 the administration, the industry and 10 or 15 in his little sawmill. Let me in- million out of rural road maintenance environmental advocates together to troduce my colleagues to Howard when we take $50 million out of the develop a plan that meets everybody’s Hedstrom up in the Gunflint Trail up credit program and $41 million out of needs. This vote is a signal for Con- in northeastern Minnesota in a small the maintenance program because that gress to provide the leadership and sawmill, and about 10 or 15 loggers. Let is what the majority of it is used for. guidance to provide a road policy. me introduce my colleagues to Toivo We are trying to change policy through Congress needs to provide leadership and Maki, a Finnish pulp cutter from the appropriations process. guidance through the legislative process. I It is unfortunate that we have an would like to work with my colleagues involved northern Minnesota. I do not think urban group who does not understand in this debate to help move that effort forward their income, their gross revenue, is the rural economy and are trying to to create sound road policy in the next yearÐ $100,000. devastate it in behalf of the people who a policy that improves the environment and b 2200 do not want to cut timber in this coun- saves moneyÐa policy that can be under- We are talking about small opera- try. It is not a fiscal issue. If it was a stoodÐand, importantly, a policy that allows tors, heart and soul of northern Min- fiscal issue, we would be talking about us to monitor our progress toward an environ- nesota, the heart and soul of rural cutting Amtrak, which has $783 mil- mentally sound National Forest System. America, people who try to make an lion. That is a subsidy. We would be Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 honest living in the woods. talking about $4.3 billion that we spend minutes to the distinguished gen- A logger has to bid on these sales for mass transit. That is a subsidy. And tleman from West Virginia [Mr. WISE]. Mr. WISE. Mr. Chairman, many of that are offered by the U.S. Forest $91 million, if you want to call it a sub- the speakers in opposition to this Service and has to include in the bid sidy, it is for rural America, it is for amendment are from the West. The the price of the road that he has to roads that campers use, that tourists only thing west about West Virginia is build. That road is there available for use, the hikers use, the fishermen use. its name, but we have got national for- snowmobilers in the wintertime and for Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 ests and we have got loggers and we the hikers and the campers and for the minutes to the gentleman from Oregon [Mr. BLUMENAUER]. have got timber people and we have got people going out fishing, all sorts of Mr. BLUMENAUER. Mr. Chairman, I folks working in the woods, too, 20,000 recreational uses on that road. They do thank the gentleman for yielding me of them, and, no, they are not all work- not get charged for it. But it is there this time, and I thank the gentleman ing in the national forest doing log- for everybody’s use. We used to call for the patience that he and his staff ging. There are going to be thousands them tote roads in northern Min- have demonstrated in helping work more that are in the national forests nesota. through some of these issues, because who are the hunters, people who want The annual allowable cut in our two these issues, Mr. Chairman, are com- to go fishing, people on recreation, peo- forests of the Chippewa and the Supe- plex. I think the American people who ple going hiking, a wide range of peo- rior is way down to about half of what have listened to the debate so far this ple. it was. Yet we are still cutting timber evening may be a little confused. Ear- How do you get into the national for- that was harvested on sales that was lier in the evening I had one of my new est? Unless you have got some real de- harvested first in the 1930’s and then in colleagues confess that he was confused sire to go see the primeval forest you the 1960’s and now it is being harvested and in fact last year I confessed that go in on a road, you go in on a road to in the 1990’s. This is a renewable re- since there were two votes, I actually fight the fire, for recreation, for forest source. This is not an issue between ended up voting on both sides of this management. Yes, you go in on a road corporate giants and little guys. This issue. I voted because I was attempting for logging. And yes, loggers pay for is silk stocking urban environmental- to determine what was in fact in the those roads. They pay to build them. It ists against us rural hicks from the best interests of the areas that I rep- is reflected in the bid for the property. sticks, and I am fed up with it. resent but, most importantly, what Some people say, ‘‘Well, they don’t Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield would make the most difference in pay to maintain them.’’ They do not 2 minutes to the gentleman from Penn- terms of the environment of our for- use them after they build them. They sylvania [Mr. PETERSON]. ests. leave a road there that many others Mr. PETERSON of Pennsylvania. Mr. I hope that this debate will spark a use. Loggers are the only ones who ac- Chairman, I appreciate the gentleman serious analysis and real action on the tually pay to build the roads into the yielding me this time. problems related to roads in our na- forests in the first place. Price Mr. Chairman, I find it very frustrat- tional forests. For people who care Waterhouse analyzes this and says ing this evening, it is the first time I deeply about the environment and look there is no subsidy here. There is no have heard this debate personally. I beyond the rhetoric, it is sometimes subsidy because they are actually pay- come from rural Pennsylvania, where hard to know the best way to protect ing for the road that they build and the Allegheny National Forest is in my that environment. that later many others will use, many district, 520,000 acres. I happen to know In part, this confusion evidenced this others that need access to these for- the person that runs the forest, man- evening shows why we should not at- ests. H5112 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 I guess I am really concerned about for new road construction and puts that money ernment gets paid for the timber. I this debate, because I think it misses into road maintenance. think we all know that the agenda by the point altogether, that in rural I plan to do everything I can in the coming those who oppose logging is to elimi- areas this is not a subsidy, it is a way days to make sure our existing roads are safe nate all timber sales on Federal lands. of life. It is an important way for our and I hope my colleagues will join me in this If that happens, the Federal Govern- economies to grow and that indeed effort. ment gets no revenue. Let CBO score there is no subsidy here, that thou- Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. that. Plus you will have killed a part of sands indeed across the country, indeed Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- an industry that is predominantly millions of people derive benefit from tleman from Texas [Mr. DOGGETT]. small businesses. these roads that never have anything Mr. DOGGETT. Mr. Chairman, I When we talk about some parts of to do with logging. thank the gentleman for yielding me the country, I can tell my colleagues I would urge the House to accept the this time. for a fact that the people who are in Dicks amendment and to reject a per- Mr. Chairman, as a member of the the logging business in South Dakota haps well-intentioned but ill-founded committee on resources and a cospon- are small businesses. Small logging Kennedy-Porter amendment. sor of this amendment, I am pleased businesses will be out of business. Fur- Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 that tonight in a single vote this Con- thermore, it is the local governments minutes to the gentlewoman from Or- gress can both protect the taxpayers who will suffer. Sixteen percent of the egon [Ms. HOOLEY]. pocketbook and do something to en- land in South Dakota is Federal lands. Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon. Mr. Chair- hance our precious natural resources. That is 16 percent that is off the tax man, I rise today to express my views With this bipartisan amendment, we rolls. Timber sales help offset that loss on the Porter-Kennedy amendment. seek to end yet another form of cor- of tax revenue. I have come to Congress to find solu- porate welfare, in this case essentially The proponents think they are help- tions, to find ways to use the legisla- food stamps for timber companies. ing the taxpayer. They are just stick- tive process to help us resolve our dif- The roads that are being constructed ing it to the taxpayer in another way, ferences. I know firsthand that forest at public expense in our national for- because all we are simply doing here is issues can be extremely divisive. To be ests are of course too rough for most having a taxpayer pay the Government honest, I am very frustrated with the people to drive a car over, but in many but they are paying it in a different polarized options we are being asked to ways they are very similar to the toll- government pocket. consider today. We need to work to ways near you. Tolls are charged for The taxpayer is supposed to feel good find commonsense solutions, that bal- these timber roads across our forests. about this amendment. I think the ance conservation concerns with the It is just that the taxpayer is the one only people who benefit from this, it tremendous need for road reconstruc- who has to pay the tolls while cor- looks like to me, and are the only ones tion and maintenance. porate timber interests get a free ride who are going to come out ahead in What I find most troubling is that we at taxpayer expense. As we continue to this are the special interests who are do not have the means to maintain the try to balance the Federal budget, this trying to kill the logging industry. massive road network that we have is exactly the kind of corporate welfare b 2215 created. According to the U.S. Forest we need to get rid of. Service, this Nation has a forest road I voted last year to end certain types I think that we need to defeat the maintenance backlog of $440 million. In of welfare to individuals, and it is time Porter-Kennedy amendment. my district alone, it is a $20 million to apply the same reasoning to cor- Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 backlog. When we fail to maintain nec- porate interests. Groups as diverse as minutes to the gentleman from Wis- essary road and decommissioned roads the Sierra Club and the National Tax- consin [Mr. KLUG], one the sponsors of which have long been out of use, we payers Union agree that this is the the amendment. create serious environmental hazards type of taxpayer financed corporate Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I thank and threats to public safety. There is freebie that we need to eliminate. my colleague from Illinois for yielding simply no sense in allocating scarce This amendment does not prevent this time to me. dollars to construct the new roads private logging companies from build- Let me just ask one simple question when we need to be repairing and re- ing roads at their own expense. If a in this room. If there is no subsidy in- constructing existing roads. company is allowed to log, they can volved in this program, why are they While I plan to vote for the Porter- build whatever roads they need. The fighting so hard to preserve it? And if Kennedy amendment, I want to make only difference would be that the tim- there is no implication whatsoever if it very clear that I do not think this ber companies, the people who benefit we eliminate it, then they should not amendment is the ultimate solution to from the roads, will pay for it, not the be fighting to eliminate it. That is the our forest road dilemmas. I am sup- taxpayer. If these roads do not make bottom line in this whole debate. And portive of the amendment’s emphasis economic sense for the timber compa- let us make the very point that the on not spending Federal Government nies, then why in the world should the Dicks amendment, which is before us moneys on new road construction. I taxpayers of America be asked to pay as well, essentially cuts the savings in think that eliminating purchaser road for them? the Porter amendment in half. credits is a move in the right direction. We have over 379,000 miles of roads in So, if one person is trying to save The Bureau of Land Management our national forests, almost 9 times the double and we cut it in half, then obvi- timber purchasers have never used the mileage of the national highway sys- ously there is somehow money involved purchaser road credits and have been tem. If we need to build one more mile, in this program in the first place, and able to build roads and access timber in let the logging companies pay for it that is the simple mistake. an affordable and efficient manner. themselves. This is not a small Now my friend from South Dakota Forest Service purchasers should do amount. It is $91 million of waste that made the point to say that essentially the same. However, I find it disturbing ought to be eliminated as we balance the mission of many of us who are in that this amendment takes funding the Federal budget. support of the Porter amendment is to away from forest road reconstruction. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield eliminate timber sales in national for- In the forests in my district, recon- 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from ests. That is simply not true. My fun- struction funds go to flood repair in South Dakota [Mr. THUNE]. damental point of view is not to elimi- damaged areas and roads that are Mr. THUNE. Mr. Chairman, I thank nate timber sales, but it is to make badly in need of maintenance. the gentleman from Ohio for yielding money on timber sales in national for- While I commend this amendment for me this time. ests, which it seems to me a very fun- defunding new roads, I think that this amend- Mr. Chairman, the proponents of the damental Republican principle. ment does not, take, as broad a view of the Kennedy–Porter amendment make it Mr. Chairman, there are 380,000 miles problems confronting our forests as it should. sound very simple. If it sounds too of roads in the national forest system, What we really need is comprehensive for- good to be true, it probably is. The fact and three-quarters of them are closed est legislation which takes funds earmarked of the matter is that the Federal Gov- to the American public at large. Three- July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5113 quarters of them are essentially exclu- Secondly, this Kennedy amendment degrading and polluting nearby streams, divid- sively for the use of the timber indus- is environmentally unsound because it ing wildlife habitats into small fragments, and try. cuts $42 million out of road mainte- allowing the spread of exotic plants and ani- Again, I have got no objections if the nance in the national forest. If my col- mal species. timber industry harvests in those for- leagues believe in the environment, A thousand communities depend on national ests, I have no objections if the timber they want those bar ditches and those forest watersheds for clean water supplies industry builds more roads. There is culverts to be maintained, they want which are threatened by silt and runoff from nothing in this amendment that says that erosion controlled. That is what lands with road construction. they cannot build as many roads as the $42 million is all about; that is why Road into national forest degrade forest they want. What it simply says is the it is there. The amendment of the gen- even before any trees are cut. They cause roads will not be built with a subsidy tleman from Washington [Mr. DICKS] erosion and sedimentationÐand massive in for the taxpayers. returns this bill to the administra- mudslidesÐare inescapable byproducts of I understand it is not dollars they are tion’s proposal that cuts only $5.6 mil- roadbuilding in steep terrain. In Idaho, for ex- getting; instead they are getting trees. lion. ample 70 percent of last year's 422 mudslides But trees have value; when they sell Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues were associated with national forest roads. them they make money on them. So it to support the Dicks amendment. This amendment would not affect funding is a barter system which is, frankly, Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. for building recreation and general purpose even older than money. Chairman, I yield such time as she may roads which are funded separately. The Por- And finally let me make the point consume to the gentlewoman from ter-Kennedy amendment would allow routine again we have been criticized contin- Texas [Ms. JACKSON-LEE]. road maintenance for necessary upkeep and ually this evening, saying, ‘‘If you (Ms. JACKSON LEE of Texas asked repair of roads which includes timber, recre- eliminate this, there won’t be money and was given permission to revise and ation and general purpose roads. left for a number of Forest Service op- extend her remarks.) According to the Forest Service there are portunities and programs that are Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. over 380,000 miles of forest roads in the exist- needed.’’ That is not true. There is Chairman, I rise in support of the Por- ing road system that are in need of repair. money still left after this rescission for ter-Kennedy amendment. There is a backlog of maintenance on the firefighting roads, for road mainte- Mr. Chairman, the Porter-Kennedy amend- 232,000 miles with a cost $440 million. nance, to build more roads to be avail- ment is a commonsense amendment. Unlike The Interior appropriations bill will retain $85 able to tourism and the recreational the National Endowment for the Arts which million for maintenance of existing roads. industry, and additionally there is $5.9 benefits manyÐand was recklessly eliminated I would like to urge my colleagues to join million left in this program specifi- in this bill, this timber subsidy benefits very me in support of the Porter-Kennedy amend- cally to oversee the construction of few. The U.S. Forest Service cannot even ment. new roads by the timber companies. maintain the existing roads reporting in March Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 that it had a $440 million backlog of road Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- minutes to the distinguished gen- maintenance needs. Why should new logging tleman from California [Mr. DOOLEY]. tleman from Texas [Mr. TURNER]. (Mr. DOOLEY of California asked and Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman, I thank roads, giving a subsidy to private companies, was given permission to revise and ex- the gentleman for yielding this time to when there is no money available to maintain the ones already there? This makes little tend his remarks.) me. Mr. DOOLEY of California. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I want to speak out sense and spends taxpayers dollars foolishly Chairman, I rise in support of the Ken- tonight on behalf of the loggers and the without a measurable benefit. nedy-Porter amendment, in opposition small sawmill owners in my district in Besides being unnecessarily expensive be- east Texas, who just about an hour ago cause of the steep slopes and rough terrain, to the Dicks amendment, and I do so made it back to the house and probably these new logging roads will hurt our national not to engage in a lot of the rhetoric are on the front porch right now trying forests which already have extensive road and whether or not there is, in fact, a to work on their chain saws and get systems which result in road density that subsidy that is being provided to the ready for tomorrow. Those folks would brings about a decline in many species in our timber industry; I rise in support of certainly disagree with the Washington wildlife population. this amendment because I think that if Post if the Washington Post said that Vote Common Sense. Vote for our environ- we are going to be trying to refashion the road credit is a subsidy. mentÐvote for the Porter-Kennedy amend- government in the manner in which we The truth of the matter is that we, in ment. are sending the appropriate signals to order to protect the national forests, Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the Porter- the timber industry, that this is an ap- require higher quality of roads in areas Kennedy amendment to H.R. 2107, the Inte- proach to take. of the forest or logs than are required rior Appropriations Act of 1998. This important What we are talking about now is in the private sector; and to offset that measure would prevent the further destruction how do we design a system so that we increased cost of building the kind of of our Nation's Federal forest and especially have more market forces coming to roads we want in our national forests the few old growth forest which remain on bear? I do not think there is going to to protect the public interests, we offer public land. be an overall change in the level of rev- a road credit. That is to say the road The Porter-Kennedy amendment to H.R. enue which the Federal Government is that is built there by the loggers is 2107 would reduce by $42 million the Forest going to achieve, because I, quite going to be a road that lasts for many, Service's $160 million in the funding for recon- frankly, agree with some of the oppo- many years. struction and construction. The amendment nents’ amendments in that the bids Mr. Chairman, I can assure any of my also reduces the bill's limitationÐfrom $50 mil- that timber companies are going to be colleagues who have ever been on a lion to $1Ðon the Forest Service's Purchaser offering for these tracts of timber are track of land that was logged in the Credit Program. Both changes are intended to actually going to be lower. But what is private sector that I know that the eliminate support for the construction of new going to change by accepting Kennedy- roads that are built in the private sec- logging roads into roadless areas. Under the Porter is that we are no longer going tor do not last 15 or 20 years. Purchaser Credit Program, timber companies to be insulating the determination in So it is a good program, it is environ- may build roads into national forest for logging terms of what is going to be the cost mentally sound, and it does not cost purposes, and, in return, receive up to $50 for building a road from the market the taxpayer one cent because we, as million in credits against the amount they owe forces. We are no longer going to be, in taxpayers, are getting a quality road, the Federal Government for timber sales. effect, having a cost-based reimburse- and the taxpayers are getting every The stewardship of our Nation's Federal ment, and that is what is important. benefit that was intended for them to lands should and must be of the greatest pri- We are now going to be putting in get in the road credit program. It is ority of this CongressÐit is a public trust place a more market-based mechanism not a subsidy. It is good environmental which we cannot fail. which is going to ensure that the tim- policy, it protects the national forests, This amendment would protect Federal ber companies which are bidding on and it allows the Forest Service to con- lands from the destruction created by logging these tracts of land are going to have a trol the type of road that is built. roads which harm the forest environment by financial incentive to build these roads H5114 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 in the most cost-effective manner, and this same 2-by-4 sells for 44 cents, dou- sachusetts does not know a lot about that is what is in the taxpayers’ inter- ble the price. Double the price it was. the forest, they may be right, but I did est. Unfortunately, while some of the Now let us go through some facts. We take the time yesterday to meet with rhetoric is based upon what is going to have heard a number of points that the National Forest Service. I met with generate, whether or not it is a subsidy were mentioned tonight. One was that them for a couple of hours in my office or not, my interest in supporting Ken- only 5 percent of the timber comes off to try to understand exactly what this nedy-Porter is how can we put in place Federal land. Well, guess what? Here is amendment would do and exactly what a system which is going to ensure that a fact: 50 percent of all soft wood grown the program that is in place currently the market forces are going to ensure in the United States today is grown on does. Federal land, but because of present that taxpayers are going to be getting b 2230 the greatest return on their invest- policy we have the doubling of wood Mr. Chairman, this amendment, this ment. price. And that, I think, is the most com- Oppose the Kennedy amendment. amendment in no way cuts this coun- pelling reason, and why those who are Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield try’s capability of fighting fires. It in 1 no way cuts this country’s ability to most interested in ensuring that tax- 1 ⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from build recreational roads. It in no way payers of this country are getting the Delaware [Mr. CASTLE]. Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I too cuts this country’s ability to build greatest return on their investment rise in strong support of the Porter- trails. It in no way cuts the mainte- should support the Kennedy-Porter Kennedy amendment. nance of existing roads. It in no way amendment, and I urge my colleagues When I came to Washington after the cuts roads needed for forest health. to support it. election in 1992, one of my goals was to Anyone who has stood up on the Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 work to eliminate unnecessary and House floor in the last couple of hours minute to the gentleman from Georgia wasteful government programs, and I and made a speech saying that that is [Mr. KINGSTON], one of the major spon- believe many of my colleagues, if not what the Porter-Kennedy amendment sors of this amendment. I wish I had most of them, came here with this very does is just plain wrong. They have not more time to give him. same goal. read it. That is not what this amend- Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, I Well, today presents to us a golden ment does. thank the gentleman for yielding this opportunity. I am a cosponsor of the All it does is say that for the funds time to me. Porter-Kennedy amendment to elimi- that are going to be utilized for the As my colleagues know, in the nar- nate logging roads subsidies because of sole purposes of building roads for the row scope of an appropriation bill and a very simple reason. Federal construc- purposes of harvesting timber, they the accompanying rules, the sub- tion of logging roads is a wasteful, un- cannot get a subsidy from the people of stitute, which I stand in support of, necessary program that is a bad deal this country. If a lumber company works out a good compromise. for the taxpayers and the environment. wants to go build those roads and har- No. 1, the Porter-Kennedy amend- It is such a bad deal that a unique coa- vest those trees, we say, have at it. ment eliminates a very important lition has formed in support of this Just pay for the roads yourself. You do maintenance account, maintenance for amendment. Republicans and Demo- not need a taxpayer subsidy to go out fire, maintenance for recreational pur- crats from across the entire political and pay for the roads. poses. This restores it but does not in- spectrum have joined forces in support People that say that the purchaser crease it except for to the President’s of this reasonable amendment. credit program does not require a sub- level, No. 1. Let me make something very clear. I sidy, of course it does. Instead of pay- No. 2, it puts in $25 million, reducing do support responsible logging in our ing them in dollars, we pay them in the amount for purchase credits by national forests, but saying that does trees. That is what this is all about. If half. Now $25 million, and listen to not mean I support asking the Amer- the program did not need a subsidy, this, listen to this very carefully, is ican taxpayers to spend millions and why are we dealing with it in an appro- less than the NEA allocations for Cali- millions each year so that big-profit priations bill? The program does not fornia and New York. That is what it timber companies do not have to pay pay for itself. This program costs the is; yes, very, very important for small for their own roads. American taxpayer over $1 billion a timber purchases. What this money Mr. Chairman, this amendment will year; that is, $1 billion over 3 years. will do is if there are two roads, but not affect recreation or general pur- That is the GAO report. they need to build a third road to get pose roads for fire safety or affect jobs. The gentleman from Washington [Mr. to the trees, what happens is when the But what it will affect is the American DICKS] is going to stand up there and logger builds that road, the money also people’s confidence in this Congress’ tell us how many trees we have not cut goes to the first and second road, and ability to cut wasteful Federal spend- down. I do not know how many of those so three roads are maintained by, as ing as we work to balance the budget are in the Alaskan wilderness, but I our jobs, as are the forests. and make the tough decisions on which will tell Members one thing, the truth Vote for the substitute; it is a very programs receive Federal funding and of the matter is if we want to harvest good compromise. which should not. It makes good sense trees, we cannot do this solely by going Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield to target subsidy programs that waste after national Forest Service roads. We 1 minute to the gentleman from Cali- taxpayer dollars and harm the environ- only cut 4 percent of the trees from the fornia [Mr. HERGER]. ment. national forest. Mr. HERGER. Mr. Chairman, I am I ask my colleagues to support the Support the Porter-Kennedy amend- appalled by the incredible misinforma- bipartisan timber roads amendment. ment and defeat the Dicks amendment. tion that we are hearing this evening. Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield I represent a district in northern Chairman, I yield myself such time as 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from California that is probably one of the I may consume. Montana [Mr. HILL]. most productive tree-growing areas in Mr. Chairman, there has been a lot of Mr. HILL. Mr. Chairman, the one the world, and we have eight national rhetoric that we have heard on this thing I have learned this evening is forests in our district. I would like to floor over the course of the last couple how little the proponents of the Porter state a few facts and compare it with of hours. I have heard this amendment amendment understand about timber policy, if I could. accused of fire, I have heard it accused sales. What people have to understand As the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. of taxes, I have heard it accused of run- is that when the Federal Government REGULA] pointed out earlier, this is a 2- ning up the cost of 2-by-4’s, I have sells timber, in some instances it is by-4. This very 2-by-4 we could buy for heard it accused of floods. The only necessary to construct a road and in 22 cents in 1989. Now this builds homes thing left is pestilence, and I am sure other instances it is necessary to re- in each of our districts, those of my in the next few minutes we will hear construct an existing road in order to colleagues who have homes in the big that, too. provide access to the timber. cities that are out trying to support But the truth of the matter is that The standing practice is that the the Kennedy amendment now. In 1997 for those that say some guy from Mas- Forest Service will either construct July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5115 the road, or allow credit against the So I am telling the Members that me quote from the Secretary of Agri- timber sale for the cost of the con- this amendment offered by the gen- culture, one of our former colleagues, struction. Why is that not a subsidy? It tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. KEN- who understands it, who is responsible is not a subsidy because the timber NEDY] and the gentleman from Illinois for the management of our forests. sale anticipates or takes into consider- [Mr. PORTER] will have a devastating Secretary Glickman says in his let- ation access. Therefore, the Govern- effect. It will reduce the timber har- ter, ‘‘However, the $41.5 million reduc- ment receives a higher price for the vest by 3.7, down to about 1.7. It will tion the amendment proposes,’’ that is timber because access is provided. If probably cost us somewhere between the Porter-Kennedy amendment, ‘‘goes the bidder had to provide that access, $200 million and $300 million in revenue too far in eliminating important con- then the bid price would simply be lost to the Treasury. struction and reconstruction efforts lower. So please vote for the Dixon amend- that provide public safety and environ- The problem with all this for me and ment and against the Porter-Kennedy mental benefits.’’ It says it all. It says my folks in Montana is that by elimi- amendment. it all. nating the prepaid credit, it is going to Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield If Members care about people, if they hurt local governments. The reason for myself the balance of my time. care about the 76 million people that that is that 25 percent of the proceeds Mr. Chairman, we have heard a lot of take their families to the national for- of the timber sales, including the road Chicken Little this evening, but be- ests for recreation, if they care about credits, is given to local governments. lieve me, the sky is not falling. We their safety, if they care about the en- It goes to counties and it goes to have heard from the gentleman from vironment, Members will vote for the school districts. This amendment, pure Georgia and many others that we are Dicks amendment, because it does not and simple, will take $10 million out of going to be cutting out the mainte- go too far, as does the Porter amend- the budgets of local governments. It is nance of roads and the obliteration of ment. important to understand that in recent roads. That is simply not true. We have Mrs. EMERSON. Mr. Chairman, I rise in years there have been dramatic reduc- heard that the recreation roads are strong opposition to the Kennedy-Porter tions in the timber harvest on these going to be cut. Not true. It does not amendment, which would undermine the Federal lands. The result has been affect them at all. Fire control, not health of our national forests and effectively large reductions in payments to these true. It does not affect them at all. shut them down to recreation, industry, and communities already. The reduction in We have heard from the gentleman sportsmen. This amendment is completely harvest has been accompanied with from Oregon that land management contrary to the wise and effective manage- plant layoffs. and the engineering process is going to ment of our national forests. The International So at a time when there are fewer be undermined. Not true. There is $5.9 Association of Firefighters says that the pro- jobs, high unemployment, considerable million remaining in the account for grams targeted by the Kennedy/Porter amend- disruptions in these communities, the management and oversight by the For- ment are ``essential to providing safe passage authors of this amendment want to est Service. We have heard that this for firefighters and protecting our national for- make the problem in those commu- amendment involves $89.5 million. It est and surrounding communities from cata- nities worse. By lowering the value of does not, it is $41.5 million. It is a sub- strophic wildfires.'' timber and therefore reducing the reve- sidy. If it is not a subsidy, why are the One of the most misunderstood aspects of nues from these timber sales, they will Members worried about it? Obviously it the forest roads program is how the money is destroy these communities. Please op- is a subsidy. actually spent. The fact of the matter is that pose this amendment. Finally, let me say also that the new road construction accounts for a very Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I yield question of small businesses was small portion of the funding. In fact, the forest myself the balance of my time. Mr. Chairman, I rise tonight in oppo- raised. The chairman protected this en- service intends to build only 8 miles of new sition to the Kennedy-Porter amend- tire account for only small business, roads in the entire 190 million acre national ment, and ask Members to vote for the and a point of order was offered and forest system, and just 1 mile of this is a tim- Dicks-Kingston-Hansen amendment. sustained to put Weyerhauser and ber road. The essential point here is that al- Our amendment basically does this. Georgia-Pacific back in the subsidy. most all of the road construction funds pro- It is a compromise. Instead of cutting No, this is about subsidizing the tim- vided to our 122 national forests goes for re- $50 million out of timber purchaser ber companies, and believe me, Mr. construction of existing roads. credit, our amendment would only cut Chairman, it is time that they simply I would also like to address the issue of how $25 million. Instead of cutting $41.5 have to pay their own way in a free en- county governments and local communities million out of appropriated funds for terprise society. This amendment is would be affected by the Kennedy/Porter timber roads, we would only cut $5.6 quintessentially Republican. Seven of amendment. Each year, 25 percent of all reve- million, which takes it back to the ad- the nine sponsors of the amendment nues collected by national forests are returned ministration’s budget request. are Republican. We believe in free mar- to the States where those national forests are Look at what happened here in tim- kets and competition, not in captive located. This is money that pays for bedrock ber sales in our country. In the 1980’s, markets and subsidies. community projects, such as public schools we were up at around 12 billion board Mr. Chairman, the Bureau of Land and county roads. In addition, counties also feet. Now we are down to 3.7 billion Management does not work this way. receive payments in lieu of taxes [PILT], which board feet. What has that done? That The Bureau of Indian Affairs does not can supplement school and roads funding or has driven up the cost of timber. It has work this way. It is time we let the go toward other important community needs. made our homes more expensive. If we free market system dictate timber In many of the counties in my district, this can are going to have access even to the 3.7 sales in our national forests as well. mean more than $100,000 annually. In fact, billion board feet we have to have some Mr. Chairman, we have reformed wel- the residents of Oregon County in my district additional new roads. That is where the fare, we have reformed agriculture in would stand to lose as much as $140,000 Kennedy amendment really does hurts this Congress and in the previous one. were the Kennedy/Porter amendment to pass. us. Now is the time to reform and elimi- The damaging effects of this amendment Second, recreation. Let me just read nate subsidies of this type. They are an are made even more evident when you con- the Members what these roads are all anachronism. I urge Members to sup- sider the loss in jobs and economic activity. about: Access for over 300 million visi- port the Porter amendment and oppose The timber industry in the State of Missouri tor days of recreation use a year, ac- the Dicks amendment. accounts for approximately 20,000 jobs and cess to over 121,000 miles of trail, ac- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield $3 billion dollars in economic activity. These cess to more than 34 million acres of myself the balance of my time. are family owned businesses, hard-working designated wilderness, access to 19 na- Mr. Chairman, let me say to all of folks. Their work is an important part of our tional recreation areas, access to over the Members who are watching us on local economy and a key element in the wise 18,000 recreation facilities, access to C-SPAN and coming over here to vote, management of our national forests. about 7,000 miles of scenic byways, ac- the right vote is to vote for the amend- Finally, let us make no mistake about the cess to 50 major visitors centers, and ment of the gentleman from Washing- special interests and the real agenda of this major ski resorts. ton [Mr. DICKS]. Why do I say that? Let amendment. Its chief proponent is the Sierra H5116 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 Club, which is bent on halting all logging in Danner King (NY) Riley McDermott Pelosi Shays Deal Kingston Rodriguez McGovern Porter Sherman our national forests. If the Sierra Club had its DeFazio Klink Rogers McHale Portman Skaggs way, the lives and livelihoods of good people DeLay Kolbe Ryun McIntosh Poshard Smith (NJ) would be disregarded in favor of its own ex- Diaz-Balart LaHood Salmon McKinney Price (NC) Snyder tremist agenda. I urge a strong ``no'' vote on Dickey Largent Sandlin McNulty Quinn Spratt Dicks Latham Schaefer, Dan Meehan Ramstad Stabenow this amendment. Dingell LaTourette Schaffer, Bob Meek Rangel Stark Ms. PRYCE of Ohio. I am not a Westerner Doolittle Lewis (CA) Sessions Menendez Reyes Stokes and I have no vested interest in this issue. But Doyle Lewis (KY) Shadegg Millender- Rivers Strickland Dreier Linder Shimkus McDonald Roemer Tauscher last year when this was debated I looked at it Duncan Lipinski Sisisky Miller (CA) Rogan Tierney closely. Dunn Livingston Skeen Miller (FL) Rohrabacher Torres Mr. Chairman, I rise again in opposition to Edwards Lucas Skelton Minge Rothman Towns the amendment. Last year, we witnessed a Ehrlich Manzullo Smith (MI) Mink Roukema Upton Emerson Mascara Smith (OR) Moakley Roybal-Allard Velazquez devastating fire season with more than six mil- English McCollum Smith (TX) Moran (VA) Royce Vento lion acres burned by catastrophic wildfire. Ensign McCrery Smith, Adam Morella Rush Visclosky While fire is an important part of mother na- Everett McDade Smith, Linda Nadler Sabo Walsh Frost McHugh Snowbarger Neal Sanders Waters ture's cycle, these un-natural, slow-moving, Gallegly McInnis Solomon Olver Sanford Watt (NC) hot-burning fires are the by-product of dense Gekas McIntyre Souder Owens Sawyer Waxman fuel loading in our forests, which often kills Gibbons McKeon Spence Pallone Saxton Weldon (PA) healthy trees and sterilizes the soil from future Gilchrest Metcalf Stearns Pappas Scarborough Wexler Goode Mica Stenholm Pascrell Schumer Weygand growth. Goodlatte Mollohan Stump Pastor Scott Wolf The timber forest road program, which this Goodling Moran (KS) Stupak Paul Sensenbrenner Woolsey amendment seeks to reduce, provides impor- Graham Murtha Sununu Payne Serrano Granger Myrick Talent Pease Shaw tant access for our wildlife firefighters in their Hall (TX) Nethercutt Tanner effort to protect our natural resources. A mem- Hansen Neumann Tauzin NOT VOTING—14 ber of my staff understands this fact first-hand, Hastert Ney Taylor (MS) Becerra Martinez Schiff having spent two weeks last summer fighting Hastings (WA) Northup Taylor (NC) Berman Molinari Shuster Hayworth Norwood Thomas Boucher Pryce (OH) Slaughter fires in the Umatilla National Forest in eastern Hefley Nussle Thompson Clement Ros-Lehtinen Yates Oregon. The forest roads provided their sole Hefner Oberstar Thornberry Fowler Sanchez access over land to get to the fire and, more Herger Obey Thune Hill Ortiz Thurman b 2257 importantly, a safe means to evacuate person- Hilleary Oxley Tiahrt nel when the fire got out of control. Hilliard Packard Traficant Mr. GREEN and Mrs. MALONEY of But, it's not just access for our wildlife fire- Hobson Parker Turner New York changed their vote from Holden Paxon Wamp ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ fighters that is important. These roads also Hostettler Peterson (MN) Watkins provide important access for resource man- Hunter Peterson (PA) Watts (OK) Messrs. CRAPO, BONILLA, and NEY agers, foresters, hunters, fishermen, campers, Hutchinson Petri Weldon (FL) changed their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ hikers, and yes, even those who just want to Hyde Pickering Weller So the amendment to the amendment Inglis Pickett White was agreed to. take a walk in the woods. Istook Pitts Whitfield Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues to look Jenkins Pombo Wicker The result of the vote was announced past the political rhetoric that many groups John Pomeroy Wise as above recorded. Johnson (WI) Radanovich Wynn would have them believe. If you support pro- Johnson, E. B. Rahall Young (AK) PERSONAL EXPLANATION moting long-term forest health and sound envi- Jones Redmond Young (FL) Ms. PRYCE of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, on roll- ronmental stewardship, I urge you to support Kaptur Regula call No. 262, I was unavoidably detained. Had the forest roads program and defeat this Kim Riggs I been present, I would have voted ``yes.'' amendment. NOES—209 PERSONAL EXPLANATION The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex- Abercrombie Doggett Hooley Ms. SANCHEZ. Mr. Chairman, I was pired. Ackerman Dooley Horn unavoidably detained on rollcall vote Under the unanimous-consent agree- Allen Ehlers Houghton No. 262, the Dicks amendment. Had I ment, the question is on the amend- Andrews Engel Hoyer been present, I would have voted ‘‘no.’’ ment offered by the gentleman from Baldacci Eshoo Hulshof Barrett (WI) Etheridge Jackson (IL) The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Washington [Mr. DICKS] to the amend- Bentsen Evans Jackson-Lee the amendment offered by the gen- ment offered by the gentleman from Il- Bilbray Ewing (TX) tleman from Illinois [Mr. PORTER], as linois [Mr. PORTER]. Bilirakis Farr Jefferson Blagojevich Fattah Johnson (CT) amended. The question was taken; and the Blumenauer Fawell Johnson, Sam The question was taken; and the Chairman announced that the ayes ap- Boehlert Fazio Kanjorski Chairman announced that the noes ap- peared to have it. Bonior Filner Kasich Borski Flake Kelly peared to have it. RECORDED VOTE Brown (CA) Foglietta Kennedy (MA) RECORDED VOTE Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I de- Brown (FL) Foley Kennedy (RI) Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. Mr. mand a recorded vote. Brown (OH) Forbes Kennelly Campbell Ford Kildee Chairman, I demand a recorded vote. A recorded vote was ordered. Capps Fox Kilpatrick A recorded vote was ordered. The vote was taken by electronic de- Cardin Frank (MA) Kind (WI) The vote was taken by electronic de- vice, and there were—ayes 211, noes 209, Carson Franks (NJ) Kleczka Castle Frelinghuysen Klug vice, and there were—ayes 246, noes 179, not voting 14, as follows: Chabot Furse Knollenberg not voting 9, as follows: [Roll No. 262] Clay Ganske Kucinich [Roll No. 263] Clayton Gejdenson LaFalce AYES—211 Clyburn Gephardt Lampson AYES—246 Aderholt Bishop Camp Condit Gillmor Lantos Abercrombie Brown (CA) Cook Archer Bliley Canady Conyers Gilman Lazio Ackerman Brown (FL) Costello Armey Blunt Cannon Cook Gonzalez Leach Allen Brown (OH) Cox Bachus Boehner Chambliss Costello Gordon Levin Andrews Campbell Coyne Baesler Bonilla Chenoweth Cox Goss Lewis (GA) Baldacci Capps Cummings Baker Bono Christensen Coyne Green LoBiondo Barrett (WI) Cardin Davis (FL) Ballenger Boswell Coble Cummings Greenwood Lofgren Bentsen Carson Davis (IL) Barcia Boyd Coburn Davis (FL) Gutierrez Lowey Bilbray Castle Davis (VA) Barr Brady Collins Davis (IL) Gutknecht Luther Bilirakis Chabot DeFazio Barrett (NE) Bryant Combest Davis (VA) Hall (OH) Maloney (CT) Blagojevich Christensen DeGette Bartlett Bunning Cooksey DeGette Hamilton Maloney (NY) Blumenauer Clay Delahunt Barton Burr Cramer Delahunt Harman Manton Boehlert Clayton DeLauro Bass Burton Crane DeLauro Hastings (FL) Markey Bonior Clyburn Dellums Bateman Buyer Crapo Dellums Hinchey Matsui Borski Condit Deutsch Bereuter Callahan Cubin Deutsch Hinojosa McCarthy (MO) Boyd Conyers Dicks Berry Calvert Cunningham Dixon Hoekstra McCarthy (NY) July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5117 Dingell Kilpatrick Portman Jenkins Norwood Skelton ty, or municipal governments, public school Dixon Kim Poshard John Nussle Smith (OR) districts, or other public school authorities Doggett Kind (WI) Price (NC) Johnson, Sam Oberstar Smith, Linda pursuant to the Act of December 4, 1967, as Dooley Kingston Quinn Jones Oxley Snowbarger amended (16 U.S.C. 484a), to remain available Rahall Kaptur Packard Solomon Edwards Kleczka until expended. Ehlers Klug Ramstad King (NY) Parker Souder Engel Kolbe Rangel Klink Paxon Spence Mr. RIGGS. Mr. Chairman, I move to English Kucinich Rivers Knollenberg Peterson (MN) Stearns strike the last word to engage in a col- Eshoo LaFalce Rodriguez LaHood Peterson (PA) Stenholm loquy with the gentleman from Ohio Etheridge Lampson Roemer Largent Pickering Stump Evans Lantos Rogan Latham Pickett Stupak [Mr. REGULA], the distinguished sub- Ewing LaTourette Rohrabacher Lewis (CA) Pitts Sununu committee chairman. Farr Lazio Rothman Lewis (KY) Pombo Talent Mr. Chairman, on September 28th Fattah Leach Roukema Linder Pryce (OH) Tauzin last year representatives of the Federal Fawell Levin Roybal-Allard Livingston Radanovich Taylor (MS) Fazio Lewis (GA) Royce Lucas Redmond Taylor (NC) Government, representatives of the Filner Lipinski Rush Manzullo Regula Thomas State of California government, and Flake LoBiondo Sabo Mascara Reyes Thompson the Pacific Lumber Co. headquartered Foglietta Lofgren Salmon McCrery Riggs Thune in Humboldt County, California, signed Foley Lowey Sanchez McDade Riley Tiahrt Forbes Luther Sanders McInnis Rogers Traficant an agreement providing for the Federal Ford Maloney (CT) Sanford McIntosh Ros-Lehtinen Turner acquisition of 75,000 acres of Fox Maloney (NY) Sawyer McIntyre Ryun Watkins timberland in Humboldt County, in my Frank (MA) Manton Saxton McKeon Sandlin Watts (OK) congressional district. Franks (NJ) Markey Scarborough Mica Schaefer, Dan Weldon (FL) Frelinghuysen Matsui Schumer Molinari Schaffer, Bob Weller This land includes 3,000 acres known Frost McCarthy (MO) Scott Mollohan Sessions Whitfield as the Headwaters Forest, which is the Furse McCarthy (NY) Sensenbrenner Moran (KS) Shadegg Wicker largest privately-owned old-growth Ganske McCollum Serrano Murtha Shimkus Wise redwood forest in the world. This is an Gejdenson McDermott Shaw Myrick Sisisky Young (AK) Gephardt McGovern Shays Nethercutt Skeen un-entered tract of redwood timberland Gilchrest McHale Sherman that is zoned for timber production. It NOT VOTING—9 Gillmor McHugh Skaggs is the highest and best use of the land. Gilman McKinney Smith (MI) Becerra Clement Shuster The funds for the Headwaters agree- Gonzalez McNulty Smith (NJ) Berman Martinez Slaughter Goodling Meehan Smith (TX) Boucher Schiff Yates ment would come from a combination Smith, Adam of State and Federal accounts. The Gordon Meek b Goss Menendez Snyder 2315 Federal share of the total acquisition Green Metcalf Spratt Mr. SUNUNU and Mr. REYES cost is $250 million. The budget agree- Greenwood Millender- Stabenow Gutierrez McDonald Stark changed their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ ment, as I think the distinguished sub- Gutknecht Miller (CA) Stokes Mr. ROHRABACHER changed his committee chairman knows, between Hall (OH) Miller (FL) Strickland vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ the Congress and the White House an- Hamilton Minge Tanner So the amendment, as amended, was ticipates a $700 million increase in the Harman Mink Tauscher Hastings (FL) Moakley Thornberry agreed to. Land and Water Conservation Fund for Hefner Moran (VA) Thurman The result of the vote was announced priority Federal land acquisitions and Hinchey Morella Tierney as above recorded. land exchanges. Hinojosa Nadler Torres Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move Of this, I believe it is understood that Hoekstra Neal Towns Hooley Neumann Upton to strike the last word. $250 million would be earmarked for Horn Ney Velazquez Mr. Chairman, I rise to advise the the completion of the Headwaters For- Hoyer Northup Vento Members that there will be no more est agreement. However, none of these Hulshof Obey Visclosky votes tonight. We are going to have funds were included in the fiscal year Jackson (IL) Olver Walsh Jackson-Lee Ortiz Wamp two more amendments, one by the gen- 1998 Interior appropriations bill before (TX) Owens Waters tleman from Wisconsin [Mr. KLUG] on us on the floor at this time. Jefferson Pallone Watt (NC) the clean coal, and possibly another en- I am a signatory to the Headwaters Johnson (CT) Pappas Waxman Forest agreement, but I have always Johnson (WI) Pascrell Weldon (PA) ergy. Johnson, E. B. Pastor Wexler But any votes that will be called for been concerned about the impact that Kanjorski Paul Weygand will be rolled over until tomorrow. I agreement could have on Humboldt Kasich Payne White would reiterate that it is our goal to County. My district, as the chairman Kelly Pease Wolf probably knows, is home to all or part Kennedy (MA) Pelosi Woolsey finish by 2 o’clock tomorrow, and we Kennedy (RI) Petri Wynn will try to get time agreements if nec- of four Federal forests as well as the Kennelly Pomeroy Young (FL) essary to meet that target. national redwood park and the State Kildee Porter The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. redwood parks. Unemployment is high and the local economy is suffering as a NOES—179 The Clerk read as follows: LAND ACQUISITION result of the current restrictions on Aderholt Callahan Ensign timber harvesting on both private and Archer Calvert Everett For expenses necessary to carry out the Armey Camp Fowler provisions of the Land and Water conserva- public lands. Bachus Canady Gallegly tion Fund Act of 1965, as amended (16 U.S.C. With the removal of the Headwaters Baesler Cannon Gekas 4601–4–11), including administrative expenses, Forest from private ownership, the Baker Chambliss Gibbons and for acquisition of land or waters, or in- transfer of the Headwaters Forest and Ballenger Chenoweth Goode terest therein, in accordance with statutory Barcia Coble Goodlatte the 7,500 acres of forest land from pri- Barr Coburn Graham authority applicable to the Forest Service, vate ownership to public ownership, Barrett (NE) Collins Granger $45,000,000, to be derived from the Land and Humboldt County stands to lose poten- Bartlett Combest Hall (TX) Water conservation Fund, to remain avail- tial millions of dollars in future tax Barton Cooksey Hansen able until expended. Bass Cramer Hastert revenues. ACQUISITION OF LANDS FOR NATIONAL FORESTS Bateman Crane Hastings (WA) Mr. Chairman, I did submit to the Bereuter Crapo Hayworth SPECIAL ACTS committee several proposals that Berry Cubin Hefley For acquisition of lands within the exte- would let the Headwaters Forest agree- Bishop Cunningham Herger rior boundaries of the Cache, Uinta, and ment go forward while providing eco- Bliley Danner Hill Wasatch National Forests, Utah; the Toiyabe Blunt Deal Hilleary National Forest, Nevada; and the Angeles, nomic mitigation for Humboldt Coun- Boehner DeLay Hilliard San Bernardino, Sequoia, and Cleveland Na- ty. I had intended to offer an amend- Bonilla Diaz-Balart Hobson ment prohibiting the Land and Water Bono Dickey Holden tional Forests, California, as authorized by Boswell Doolittle Hostettler law, $1,069,000, to be derived from forest re- Conservation Fund to be used to ac- Brady Doyle Houghton ceipts. quire the Headwaters until two condi- Bryant Dreier Hunter ACQUISITION OF LANDS TO COMPLETE LAND tions have been met. Bunning Duncan Hutchinson EXCHANGES First, all of the terms and conditions Burr Dunn Hyde Burton Ehrlich Inglis For acquisition of lands, such sums, to be of the Headwaters Forest agreement it- Buyer Emerson Istook derived from funds deposited by State, coun- self must by satisfied or fulfilled by the H5118 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 parties to that agreement. Second, leg- The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. or damaged lands or waters under its juris- islation must be enacted or an appro- The Clerk read as follows: diction. Funds appropriated to the Forest Service priation approved providing economic RANGE BETTERMENT FUND shall be available for assistance to or assistance to Humboldt County, Cali- For necessary expenses of range rehabilita- through the Agency for International Devel- fornia, to mitigate the loss of tax reve- tion, protection, and improvement, 50 per opment and the Foreign Agricultural Service nues incurred because of the Head- centum of all moneys received during the in connection with forest and rangeland re- waters Forest agreement and, again, prior fiscal year, as fees for grazing domestic search, technical information, and assist- the transfer of this land from private livestock on lands in National Forests in the ance in foreign countries, and shall be avail- to public ownership. sixteen Western States, pursuant to section able to support forestry and related natural Mr. Chairman, section 205 of the joint 401(b)(1) of Public Law 94–579, as amended, to resource activities outside the United States House-Senate budget resolution, again remain available until expended, of which and its territories and possessions, including not to exceed 6 per centum shall be available technical assistance, education and training, negotiated between the Congress and for administrative expenses associated with the White House, includes the money and cooperation with United States and on-the-ground range rehabilitation, protec- international organizations. for the Land and Water Conservation tion, and improvements. None of the funds made available to the Fund and, as I mentioned earlier, $250 GIFTS, DONATIONS AND BEQUESTS FOR FOREST Forest Service under this Act shall be sub- million for the Federal Government to AND RANGELAND RESEARCH ject to transfer under the provisions of sec- acquire this timberland in question. For expenses authorized by 16 U.S.C. tion 702(b) of the Department of Agriculture Again, I reiterate my concerns, Mr. 1643(b), $92,000, to remain available until ex- Organic Act of 1944 (7 U.S.C. 2257) or 7 U.S.C. Chairman, about the potential impact pended, to be derived from the fund estab- 147b unless the proposed transfer is approved of this agreement and this land acqui- lished pursuant to the above Act. in advance by the House and Senate Commit- tees on Appropriations in compliance with sition on Humboldt County, and bring MIDEWIN NATIONAL TALLGRASS PRAIRIE the reprogramming procedures contained in to your attention the fact that Hum- RESTORATION FUND the report accompanying this bill. boldt County again stands to lose po- All funds collected for admission, occu- None of the funds available to the Forest tentially millions of dollars in future pancy, and use of the Midewin National Service may be reprogrammed without the tax revenues. Tallgrass Prairie, and the salvage value pro- advance approval of the House and Senate I am seeking your assurance, Mr. ceeds from sale of any facilities and improve- Committees on Appropriations in accordance Chairman, that any money for the ac- ments pursuant to sections 2915 (d) and (e) of with the procedures contained in the report quisition of the Headwaters Forest Public Law 104–106, are hereby appropriated accompanying this bill. agreement through the Land and Water and made available until expended for the No funds appropriated to the Forest Serv- necessary expenses of restoring and admin- Conservation Fund or through the fis- ice shall be transferred to the Working Cap- istering the Midewin National Tallgrass ital Fund of the Department of Agriculture cal year 1998 Interior appropriations Prairie in accordance with section 2915(f) of without the approval of the Chief of the For- bill will not be approved, will not be the Act. est Service. appropriated unless there is adequate COOPERATIVE WORK, FOREST SERVICE Notwithstanding any other provision of mitigation for Humboldt County. For restoring the balances borrowed for the law, any appropriations or funds avail- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the previous years firefighting, $128,000,000, to re- able to the Forest Service may be used to gentleman yield? main available until expended: Provided, disseminate program information to private Mr. RIGGS. I yield to the gentleman That the appropriation shall be merged with and public individuals and organizations from Ohio. and made a part of the designated fund au- through the use of nonmonetary items of Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I thank thorized by Public Law 71–319, as amended. nominal value and to provide nonmonetary awards of nominal value and to incur nec- the gentleman for yielding. ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS, FOREST SERVICE The gentleman from California has essary expenses for the nonmonetary rec- Appropriations to the Forest Service for ognition of private individuals and organiza- repeatedly made his concerns for Hum- the current fiscal year shall be available for: tions that make contributions to Forest boldt County, California, known to me. (a) purchase of not to exceed 159 passenger Service programs. I fully understand how important an motor vehicles of which 22 will be used pri- Notwithstanding any other provision of issue this is to the gentleman from marily for law enforcement purposes and of law, money collected, in advance or other- California [Mr. RIGGS] and the people which 156 shall be for replacement; acquisi- wise, by the Forest Service under authority of Humboldt County. tion of 25 passenger motor vehicles from ex- of section 101 of Public Law 93–153 (30 U.S.C. The $700 million was not included in cess sources, and hire of such vehicles; oper- 185(1)) as reimbursement of administrative the bill reported from the committee. ation and maintenance of aircraft, the pur- and other costs incurred in processing pipe- chase of not to exceed two for replacement However, it is possible that the Senate line right-of-way or permit applications and only, and acquisition of 20 aircraft from ex- for costs incurred in monitoring the con- will include all or part of these funds. cess sources notwithstanding other provi- struction, operation, maintenance, and ter- I assure the gentleman from California sions of law, existing aircraft being replaced mination of any pipeline and related facili- [Mr. RIGGS] that I will raise his con- may be sold, with proceeds derived or trade- ties, may be used to reimburse the applicable cerns for the need of economic mitiga- in value used to offset the purchase price for appropriation to which such costs were origi- tion for Humboldt County if the funds the replacement aircraft; (b) services pursu- nally charged. are an issue with the House-Senate ant to 7 U.S.C. 2225, and not to exceed Funds available to the Forest Service shall conference on the Interior appropria- $100,000 for employment under 5 U.S.C. 3109; be available to conduct a program of not less tions bill. (c) purchase, erection, and alteration of than $1,000,000 for high priority projects Mr. RIGGS. Mr. Chairman, reclaim- buildings and other public improvements (7 within the scope of the approved budget U.S.C. 2250); (d) acquisition of land, waters, which shall be carried out by the Youth Con- ing my time, I would like to thank the and interests therein, pursuant to 7 U.S.C. servation Corps as authorized by the Act of gentleman for his attention to this 428a; (e) for expenses pursuant to the Volun- August 13, 1970, as amended by Public Law very important matter and point out teers in the National Forest Act of 1972 (16 93–408. to him that I am eager to work with U.S.C. 558a, 558d, 558a note); and (f) the cost None of the funds available in this Act him and the other House-Senate con- of uniforms as authorized by 5 U.S.C. 5901– shall be used for timber sale preparation ferees on this particular issue, not only 5902; and (g) for debt collection contracts in using clearcutting in hardwood stands in ex- to secure the funding for the Head- accordance with 31 U.S.C. 3718(c). cess of 25 percent of the fiscal year 1989 har- None of the funds made available under waters Forest acquisition but also the vested volume in the Wayne National Forest, this Act shall be obligated or expended to Ohio: Provided, That this limitation shall not equally important funding to provide change the boundaries of any region, to abol- apply to hardwood stands damaged by natu- economic assistance to Humboldt ish any region, to move or close any regional ral disaster: Provided further, That landscape County to compensate for the loss of office for research, State and private for- architects shall be used to maintain a vis- future tax revenues. estry, or National Forest System adminis- ually pleasing forest. Again, I appreciate the assurance of tration of the Forest Service, Department of Any money collected from the States for the chairman that he will work with Agriculture without the consent of the fire suppression assistance rendered by the me and his fellow House-Senate con- House and Senate Committees on Appropria- Forest Service on non-Federal lands not in ferees to resolve this issue of economic tions. the vicinity of National Forest System lands Any appropriations or funds available to shall be used to reimburse the applicable ap- mitigation for Humboldt County. the Forest Service may be advanced to the propriation and shall remain available until Given that assurance, I will not offer Wildland Fire Management appropriation expended as the Secretary may direct in con- my amendment later today or tomor- and may be used for forest firefighting and ducting activities authorized by 16 U.S.C. row. the emergency rehabilitation of burned-over 2101 (note), 2101–2110, 1606, and 2111. July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5119 Of the funds available to the Forest Serv- directly to the Washington State Depart- The text of the amendment is as fol- ice, $1,500 is available to the Chief of the For- ment of Fish and Wildlife for accomplish- lows: est Service for official reception and rep- ment of planned projects. Twenty percent of Amendment No. 5 offered by Mr. Klug: resentation expenses. said funds shall be retained by the Forest Page 58, line 18, after the dollar amount, in- Notwithstanding any other provision of Service for planning and administering sert the following: ‘‘(increased by law, the Forest Service is authorized to em- projects. Project selection and prioritization $292,000,000)’’. ploy or otherwise contract with persons at shall be accomplished by the Forest Service regular rates of pay, as determined by the with such consultation with the State of Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I ask Service, to perform work occasioned by Washington as the Forest Service deems ap- unanimous consent that all debate on emergencies such as fires, storms, floods, propriate. this amendment and all amendments earthquakes or any other unavoidable cause Funds appropriated to the Forest Service thereto close in 30 minutes and that without regard to Sundays, Federal holidays, shall be available for payments to counties and the regular workweek. within the Columbia River Gorge National the time be equally divided. To the greatest extent possible, and in ac- Scenic Area, pursuant to sections 14(c)(1) and The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection cordance with the Final Amendment to the (2), and section 16(a)(2) of Public Law 99–663. to the request of the gentleman from Shawnee National Forest Plan, none of the Any funds available to the Forest Service Ohio? funds available in this Act shall be used for may be used for retrofitting the Command- There was no objection. preparation of timber sales using ing Officer’s Building (S–2), to accommodate The CHAIRMAN. The time will be 15 clearcutting or other forms of even aged the relocation of the Forest Supervisor’s Of- minutes for the gentleman from Ohio management in hardwood stands in the fice for the San Bernardino National Forest: [Mr. REGULA] and 15 minutes for the Shawnee National Forest, Illinois. Provided, That funds for the move must come Pursuant to sections 405(b) and 410(b) of from funds otherwise available to Region 5: gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. KLUG]. Public Law 101–593, of the funds available to Provided further, That any funds to be pro- Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- the Forest Service, up to $2,000,000 may be vided for such purposes shall only be avail- self such time as I may consume. advanced in a lump sum as Federal financial able upon approval of the House and Senate What we have before us tonight, Mr. assistance to the National Forest Founda- Committees on Appropriations. Chairman, is I think a very clear de- tion, without regard to when the Foundation The Secretary of Agriculture is authorized bate over the subject of corporate wel- to enter into grants, contracts, and coopera- incurs expenses, for administrative expenses fare, corporate in the sense that the or projects on or benefitting National Forest tive agreements as appropriate with the Pin- System lands or related to Forest Service chot Institute for Conservation, as well as money we are talking about this programs: Provided, That of the Federal with public and other private agencies, orga- evening to do coal research benefits a funds made available to the Foundation, no nizations, institutions, and individuals, to number of major corporations across more than $500,000 shall be available for ad- provide for the development, administration, the country and across the world, cor- ministrative expenses: Provided further, That maintenance, or restoration of land, facili- porations like Alcoa, worth $2.5 billion, the Foundation shall obtain, by the end of ties, or Forest Service programs, at the Grey or GE, $70 billion, and welfare in the the period of Federal financial assistance, Towers National Historic Landmark: Pro- sense that we have been subsidizing re- vided, That, subject to such terms and condi- private contributions to match on at least search for an industry to essentially one-for-one basis funds made available by tions as the Secretary of Agriculture may the Forest Service: Provided further, That the prescribe, any such public or private agency, make leaps forward in industrial tech- Foundation may transfer Federal funds to a organization, institution, or individual may nology since the 1930’s. recipient of Federal financial assistance for solicit, accept, and administer private gifts b 2330 a project at the same rate that the recipient of money and real or personal property for has obtained the non-Federal matching the benefit of, or in connection with, the ac- In fact we have been funding coal funds: Provided further, That hereafter, the tivities and services at the Grey Towers Na- programs since Franklin Roosevelt was National Forest Foundation may hold Fed- tional Historic Landmark: Provided further, President. We have to ask ourselves eral funds made available but not imme- That such gifts may be accepted notwith- after 60 years if the program has not diately disbursed and may use any interest standing the fact that a donor conducts busi- paid back dividends to this point, why or other investment income earned (before, ness with the Department of Agriculture in do we have any reasonable expectation any capacity. on, or after the date of enactment of this that it will pay back dividends in the Act) on Federal funds to carry out the pur- Funds appropriated to the Forest Service poses of Public Law 101–593: Provided further, shall be available, as determined by the Sec- future, either in the near future or in That such investments may be made only in retary, for payments to Del Norte County, the long-term future whatsoever? interest-bearing obligations of the United California, pursuant to sections 13(e) and 14 The program is fundamentally unnec- States or in obligations guaranteed as to of the Smith River National Recreation Area essary because financial incentives al- both principal and interest by the United Act (Public Law 101–612). ready exist for private industry to de- States. For purposes of the Southeast Alaska Eco- nomic Disaster Fund as set forth in section velop cleaner burning coal technologies Pursuant to section 2(b)(2) of Public Law under the 1990 Clean Air Act Amend- 98–244, up to $2,000,000 of the funds available 101(c) of Public Law 104–134, the direct grants to the Forest Service shall be available for provided in subsection (c) shall be considered ments. The 1991 General Accounting matching funds, as authorized by 16 U.S.C. direct payments for purposes of all applica- Office report concluded that the pro- 3701–3709, and may be advanced in a lump ble law except that these direct grants may gram has been plagued by chronic cost sum as Federal financial assistance, without not be used for lobbying activities. overruns and scheduling problems, it regard to when expenses are incurred, for No employee of the Department of Agri- funds technologies already commer- culture may be detailed or assigned from an projects on or benefitting National Forest cially developed, those unlikely to be System lands or related to Forest Service agency or office funded by this Act to any other agency or office of the Department for used because they fail to reduce emis- programs: Provided, That the Foundation sions as much as existing technologies shall obtain, by the end of the period of Fed- more than 30 days unless the individual’s eral financial assistance, private contribu- employing agency or office is fully reim- and many in fact within the industry tions to match on at least one-for-one basis bursed by the receiving agency or office for have already been developed without funds advanced by the Forest Service: Pro- the salary and expenses of the employee for any kind of Federal assistance or Fed- vided further, That the Foundation may the period of assignment. eral financing. transfer Federal funds to a recipient of Fed- DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY In fact at this point, Mr. Chairman, eral financial assistance for a project at the CLEAN COAL TECHNOLOGY we have already spent $2.75 billion on same rate that the recipient has obtained (RESCISSION) clean air technology research, nearly the non-Federal matching funds. Of the funds made available under this $3 billion aimed at large multinational Funds appropriated to the Forest Service heading for obligation in fiscal year 1997 or shall be available for interactions with and corporations and at this point the gov- prior years, $100,000,000 are rescinded: Pro- ernment has recovered only $400,000 on providing technical assistance to rural com- vided, That funds made available in previous munities for sustainable rural development appropriations Acts shall be available for its investment. While recognizing the purposes. any ongoing project regardless of the sepa- need for Federal assistance with high Notwithstanding any other provision of rate request for proposal under which the risk research, the Department of En- law, 80 percent of the funds appropriated to project was selected. ergy testified before Congress that the Forest Service in the ‘‘National Forest these type of demonstration projects System’’ and ‘‘Reconstruction and Construc- AMENDMENT NO. 5 OFFERED BY MR. KLUG tion’’ accounts and planned to be allocated Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I offer an are not the wisest use of taxpayer dol- to activities under the ‘‘Jobs in the Woods’’ amendment. lars, and I could not agree more. program for projects on National Forest land The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- The other thing, Mr. Chairman, to in the State of Washington may be granted ignate the amendment. point out is the fact that this program H5120 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 has been absolutely overrun with there are limits on how much of this these programs. One of the programs abuses and failures since the beginning. we can do. The committee, as the that is being talked about is in bank- Since the first projects were initiated chairman has pointed out, has taken ruptcy right now. Another one is on its 10 years ago, there were 51 initial steps to make very large rescissions in fifth location and cannot even find a projects included in essentially 5 many of these fossil energy programs. site. Another one DOE says they may rounds of proposals and competition. But the criticism that is being made of cancel because the sponsor could not Fifteen have been withdrawn, 6 are the programs that remain are largely guarantee the technology would sur- still in the books, never to get to the unwarranted. vive. Another program is on a second construction stage, one of the project I and one of my colleagues have made site location because the initial back- sponsors has already been forced into this point over and over again, that we ers decided the technology was not eco- bankruptcy, and one of the projects is need to complete these programs. They nomically viable. That was a $183 mil- now on its fifth site in 10 years unable will be terminated in the relatively lion program. I think our taxpayers in to find any kind of financial backing near future, but we need the results this country deserve to keep their own for the technology. I think any of my that we will obtain from them. The at- money rather than taking $292 million colleagues who look at this objectively tacks made on them, that they rep- and sending it back for these projects. as well as a number of outside groups resent corporate welfare to large cor- I support basic research as a respon- like Citizens against Government porations, is simply not the case. Most sibility of the Federal Government. I Waste, Friends of the Earth, Taxpayers of these programs are operated by am a strong supporter of NIH. I think for Common Sense, the National Tax- small and medium sized organizations. the National Science Foundation is an payers Union, Citizens for a Sound I urge a ‘‘no’’ vote on this amend- appropriate place for basic research. Economy, the Competitive Enterprise ment. The program is working well. But this is applied research. This is Institute, all fundamentally recognize The committee is supervising it close- building power plants to provide en- that this is a corporate welfare pro- ly. ergy power. This program was created gram that has to be eliminated if we Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- back in 1986. The Clean Air Act are ever going to get this Nation’s self such time as I may consume to changed the rules back in 1990. That is books in order and if we are ever to end make a couple of quick points. the reason we do not need this right up actually running in the black. What we have just heard is the fun- now. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance damental argument we always get on This has the strong support of fiscal of my time. any science program, that we cannot conservative organizations, supported Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield cancel it because they just started it by the Citizens Against Government 3 minutes to the distinguished gen- and there might be potential, or we Waste, the Taxpayers for Common tleman from California [Mr. BROWN], cannot cancel it because they have in- Sense, Citizens for a Sound Economy, ranking member of the Committee on vested so much money they might as the National Taxpayers Union, Ameri- Science. well finish the project to see if it pays cans for Tax Reform, and the Competi- (Mr. BROWN of California asked and dividends. tive Enterprise Institute. It has got was given permission to revise and ex- There is never an optimal point to wide support by the conservative orga- tend his remarks.) terminate a science project according nizations because this is an effort to Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- to many people in this Chamber, but I save money. man, first of all, let me commend the will say fundamentally that if the pro- It is misnamed by calling it clean committee for the excellent job that it gram is going to be terminated in the coal. It is clean coal in name only be- has done with regard to the legislation near future, we might as well save the cause the environmental community before us. I think they have been mod- money today. supports this amendment, because erate in proposing cuts in the various Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to what the environmental community is programs that required cuts and they the gentleman from Florida [Mr. saying, coal is not the best type of en- have maintained those programs which MILLER]. ergy source we have. We have organiza- have the prospect of providing lasting Mr. MILLER of Florida. I thank the tions like the Sierra Club supporting improvements in the efficiency of our gentleman for yielding me this time. this amendment. This is a program fossil energy economy in future years. Mr. Chairman, as a new member of that I think has outlived its usefulness. I think it is well that we should un- the Subcommittee on Interior, it is two We have a chance to save the American derstand that despite all of the efforts amendments in a row that I stand up in taxpayers money. It is corporate wel- that we have made in supporting re- disagreement with my chairman. My fare, and I think it is time that we end search in alternative forms of energy chairman is one of the great Members it. other than fossil, we are still going to of this body and it is with a certain Mr. Chairman, I urge support for the be highly dependent upon fossil energy amount of reluctance that I do that, Klug amendment. for as far as we can determine into the but as someone who has been a fiscal Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield future. It is by far our largest reserve conservative and opposed to corporate 3 minutes to the gentleman from Penn- of energy, and we are going to have to welfare since I came here, this is a sylvania [Mr. DOYLE]. use it. classic case of corporate welfare. (Mr. DOYLE asked and was given Much of the program that is being at- What we are talking about doing is permission to revise and extend his re- tacked by this amendment supports re- saving the American people $292 mil- marks.) search that will provide for the utiliza- lion, $292 million that our taxpayers Mr. DOYLE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in tion of this huge resource in more effi- have to send to Washington for us to opposition to the amendment offered cient ways; that is, it will produce pay back and give to large corporations by the gentleman from Wisconsin. This more energy more efficiently and it to build power plants. What this pro- amendment claims to save money will also provide that this energy gram is about, starting back in 1986, while helping clean up our environ- meets the environmental standards was to test the new technology on ment. What we have in fact here, Mr. which we have set for this country. power plants. There were approxi- Chairman, is a case of false advertis- The fact of the matter is we very mately 45 projects around the United ing. Will this amendment save tax- badly need this continued research. As States that received millions of dol- payers money? The simplistic view is I remarked in earlier remarks today, it lars. In fact, over $2 billion has been yes, but the truth of the matter is that seems a long time ago now, in opposing spent on this program to date. it will end up costing more than it another effort to cut into energy re- What we are talking about doing is purports to save. search in order to support other worthy saying, wait a minute, wisely we de- The clean coal technology program is programs, energy research and energy cided to stop creating these new comprised of a number of cooperative in this country, the ability to use en- projects back in 1993, but there are still agreements between government and ergy efficiently and to develop new en- some projects in the design phase. We industry. These agreements are legally ergy sources is the backbone of our can stop them now. That is how we can binding contracts. Maybe some Mem- economic growth. We recognize that save the $292 million. We do not need bers do not understand what a contract July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5121 is, but the Federal Government is supply and the comparative economics of This money is never going to be spent, going to remain liable for its share of coal as a fuel, free market forces are operat- it is there simply as a cushion against these agreements regardless of what ing to select and commercialize the most ef- contractual obligations, and so vote for action we take here in this bill. So if ficient and environmentally effective clean it because this budget authority reduc- coal technologies. Federal subsidies could we pass this amendment, not only will alter these market forces and adversely af- tion will result in not one dollar of out- we likely end up paying for the cost of fect the development of competing tech- lay savings. the programs, but we are going to sad- nologies both within and outside the coal in- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield dle the American taxpayer with the dustry. 2 minutes to the gentleman from Illi- cost of the Federal Government defend- In other words, if there are innova- nois [Mr. POSHARD]. ing itself against litigation. tions to be made in the coal industry, Mr. POSHARD. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding this Let us look at whether this amend- they are much more likely to be made time to me. ment really does much for environ- without the Federal Government’s in- mental protection. It is all well and Mr. Chairman, I represent southern volvement. Illinois which is part of the Illinois good to support R&D in areas such as Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he coal basin, and it is part of the coal solar and biomass, which is something may consume to the gentleman from I have fought for, but it is not realistic that we have in this country, 300 years California [Mr. ROYCE] to further sup- of coal supply in this country to supply to expect that these options will be a port that point. significant segment of our energy sup- energy needs for America. The problem ply for the foreseeable future. b 2345 is much of it is high sulfur coal; we The Energy Information Agency in Mr. ROYCE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in cannot sell it. its examination of trends in the energy support of this amendment. The Clean Air Act cost us nearly sector has determined that in the year The clean coal technology program is 15,000 jobs in the Illinois coal basin 2010, 88 percent of our energy is going unnecessary. Financial incentives al- alone when it was passed, and I guess to come from fossil resources. Consider ready exist for private industry to de- the question that I would ask of our this while taking into account the like- velop cleaner burning technologies; the colleagues is where do we think that lihood that the United States is going recipients of these funds represent sev- we are going to go in the future for to commit to emissions reduction tar- eral corporations that do have billions supplying the energy needs of this gets later this year in Kyoto. of dollars in revenues a year; and, last- country? We have barely 30 years of How are we going to meet these lim- ly, even the Department of Energy has proven oil and gas reserves left in the its? The answer is through techno- stated that demonstration projects entire world right now, we are decom- logical innovation in areas where emis- such as those supported by the clean missioning our nuclear power plants all sion reductions can be realized. Since coal technology program are not, over this country, and that is going to coal is our most abundant domestic re- quote, ‘‘the proper place or certainly in rapidly expand as their life runs out. source, it makes sense to try and de- these fiscally constrained times the We are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to go to solar or wind or velop methods to burn it cleaner. The wisest place for Federal funding.’’ This some of the other things. type of large-scale efforts we need to is from the Department of Energy. Mr. Chairman, coal is the single do are too risky for the private sector The clean coal program has a history greatest energy supply we have, and we to assume on their own. That is why of waste and mismanagement. Accord- simply have to find a way to clean it Congress came up with the Clean Coal ing to a General Accounting Office Re- with either pre- or post-combustion Technology Program to meet this chal- port, almost half of the program’s on- technology so that we can use it to lenge, to find ways to make use of a se- going projects have exceeded their cure and plentiful energy resource in a supply the energy needs of this coun- budgets, fallen behind schedule or try, and that is what the clean coal clean and efficient manner. scaled back their scope. If the program The clean coal program is exploring technology program has done for us. proceeds as planned, taxpayers will methods that have made burning coal Already more than $9 billion in sales hand out a total of $2.3 billion to the as clean as natural gas and are sound of advanced U.S. technology in the private coal industry and receive little investments. Clean coal technologies United States and overseas can be in return. According to the General Ac- can cut acid rain emissions by 98 per- traced back to the achievements of the cent, fly ash emissions by 99 percent counting Office and the Department of clean coal technology program. One- Energy, it is unlikely that we will ever and CO2 emissions by over 40 percent. quarter of the coal-fired capacity in Obviously, continuing with this effort be able to recover taxpayers’ invest- the United States now uses technology is the better environmental alternative ment in clean coal projects. pioneered in this program. Twenty-five and cutting it would be shortsighted. Join with me and Citizens Against percent, 25 percent of all of the coal- Let us look further at some of the ar- Government Waste in ending this un- fired capacity, again I repeat, in this guments put forward by the proponents necessary program and take a step to- country uses technology pioneered in of this amendment. They criticize the wards balancing the budget. Vote this program, accounting for almost $1 Clean Coal Technology Program be- ‘‘yes’’ on this amendment offered by billion in domestic sales, and by the cause some of the projects have failed. the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. year 2000 this will have increased to 75 Of course some of the projects are KLUG]. percent. going to fail. These are high risk en- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield Let us vote against this amendment, deavors. That is why the government is myself 30 seconds, and I would point keep our technology afoot, clean our involved, to leverage an investment out that the GAO report of 1994, the coal up, save our jobs. that the private sector would not oth- most recent report, and I quote, ‘‘the Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- erwise make. If their success were program has shown that the govern- self such time as I may consume. guaranteed, there would be no need for ment and the private sector can work Let me point out a few facts to rebut government participation. Keep in together effectively to develop and points made by my colleague from Illi- mind, when a project fails, the indus- demonstrate new technologies. The les- nois. This is what the Congressional trial partner also does not profit. sons learned from DOE’s experience Budget Office has to say about this ar- Mr. Chairman, I urge defeat of this with the program should be useful for gument: amendment. similar programs in which costs are Since the passage of the Clean Air Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- shared.’’ Act amendments of 1990 the private self such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, I yield 15 seconds to sector has faced a clear legislative If I could for a moment quote from a the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. mandate for lowering coal emissions. study that was done by the Department OBEY]. Electric utilities and large industrial of Energy in 1985 at part of the time Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I would users of coal now have a clear eco- this program was first being consid- simply note that I am going to vote for nomic motive for selecting among cur- ered. It says: this amendment because it does not do rent practices and new technologies Given the size and availability of U.S. coal nothing to nobody. The outlay savings the lowest cost option for reducing reserves, the security of the domestic coal from this amendment are exactly zero. emissions. H5122 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 In other words, the passage of the Treasury from expanded economic ac- that are going to go back to the Fed- Clean Air Act has led ultimately to the tivity. Let us not curtail the research eral Government or go back to the De- cleanup as private industries have used that will help us achieve energy self- partment of Energy period. their own brain power to develop inno- sufficiency in this country. It has not worked in terms of clean- vative technologies. It is not the DOE This amendment presents a clear ing the air; other government pro- clean coal program which that same choice between investing in the future grams have done that. It has not re- congressional office report argues has, or just giving up and remaining de- sulted in wide scale commercial tech- in fact, been a waste of money because pendent on foreign oil. I urge a ‘‘no’’ nologies. In fact the marketplace has there has been very little payback sci- vote on my friend’s amendment. already moved in other directions. And entifically, and there has been very lit- Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- it is industry, quite frankly, and it is tle payback in terms of commercial self such time as I may consume. welfare, quite frankly, that those large technology. Mr. Chairman, I am going to close at multinational corporations can afford Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance this point in the hopes that we can get to do on their own. of my time. out of here a little bit earlier this I urge my colleagues when they re- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield evening. I want to essentially take a turn in the morning to vote for the 3 minutes to the gentleman from Penn- look at three arguments in support of Klug-Miller-Foley-Royce amendment. sylvania [Mr. HOLDEN]. continuing to fund clean coal and then Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. HOLDEN. I thank the gentleman three arguments that I think will in- myself the balance of my time. for yielding this time to me. stead argue for the continued rescis- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Mr. Chairman, I rise tonight in sion of this program and to knock it from Ohio is recognized for 4 minutes. strong opposition to the amendment down to zero. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, Cor- offered by my friend from Wisconsin, First of all, we heard my colleague porate Welfare has taken a real beating [Mr. KLUG] which seeks to rescind an from Illinois argue that clean coal tonight, and the truth of the matter is additional $292 million from the clean technology was supposed to reduce acid that that term is badly abused. This is coal technology program. rain. The fact is according to the De- not corporate welfare, this is people I recognize that these are tough partment of Energy and according to welfare. This program is designed to budgetary times. Therefore, we must the Congressional Budget Office EPA help the people of this Nation. prioritize, and I believe that one of our regulations, the Clean Air Act passed How does it help them? It provides an priorities should be to reduce our de- by this Congress, is the primary cause ability to burn a resource where we pendence on foreign oil. of improvements in air quality and have 250 years of supply. It means they Coal is the largest domestic source of contained incentives to further control can have low cost fuel for their lights, energy produced in the United States. emissions. We are going to set targets for their appliances; more and more we Current estimates demonstrate a 250- and let private industry reach those use electricity. It means they can have to-300-year coal resource base in the targets through its own set of innova- jobs because the costs of energy will be United States. We have more coal than tions, not by technology developed by competitive for our industries. the rest of the world has recoverable the Government and essentially set Does it work? It certainly does. As oil. Think about that, more coal than down. was pointed out earlier, one quarter of the rest of the world has in recoverable Now again the idea of the clean coal the coal fired capacity in the United oil. Therefore, it is important that we technology program argument No. 2 is States now uses technology pioneered invest in the research and development that it was going to result in commer- in the clean coal program. that will allow Americans to continue cial technologies. Let me reemphasize Do people believe in it? The private benefiting from this abundant, secure, that we have invested $31⁄2 billion and sector has committed 60 percent of the and affordable fuel source without at this point only had $400,000 come cost of this program. This says very compromising the environment. back to the Department of Energy. clearly that they believe that it is an I am proud to represent an area in Any company that was running that efficient and a very effective program, Pennsylvania that sits on the largest kind of return on its investment would and there is very few programs that anthracite coal deposit in the country. long ago be out of business, and frank- have a 60 percent private/ 40 percent Anthracite is considered the cleanest ly this program should have long ago public cost share of an experimental burning solid fuel on the commercial been out of business. nature. market today. With continued research The other argument is that it sup- Does it help us otherwise? Sales of of anthracite coal, the potential of the ports the coal industry and that some- clean coal technology already exceed $9 United States becoming energy self- how without this research the coal in- billion both here and abroad. sufficient in an environmentally dustry could not exist, and the fact of What does it mean? China, as I men- friendly manner is enhanced. the matter is the coal industry has tioned earlier in the evening, is con- The clean coal technology program is done very well over the years, but more suming even more coal then the United important for several reasons: cleaning and more technology, frankly, is shift- States and with the growth of their up the environment by burning waste ing to natural gas. There is more use in economy that will probably double. coal. In my home County of Schuylkill natural gas, there are more applica- The market for clean coal technology alone there is an excess of 1 billion, tions of natural gas, it burns cleaner, it is enormous and will help our balance with a B, billion, tons of waste coal sells for cheaper prices, and when the of payments, it will create jobs for that has accumulated over the years. marketplace essentially has these tar- Americans, it will help to clean up the Reducing emissions of nitrogen ox- gets out there that industry is sup- environment worldwide. Other nations ides and air toxics. posed to hit, it hits those targets, but are concerned about their emissions be- Developing cleaner, more efficient it does through again through industry cause they do go into the atmosphere power systems. innovation as folks shift to clean, nat- that ultimately all of us breathe. Sponsoring promising technologies ural gas away from coal and some of This program is a success. that are too risky for private industry the coal problems. Now we have been practical about it. to undertake alone. And again one of the fundamental ar- In this bill we rescind $100 million of Providing a model for future govern- guments we have been beating on to- clean coal technology because a couple ment-industry technology partner- night, and I will say it one more time, of programs that were on line decided ships. this is corporate welfare. This money is that they did not want to go forward. And providing tremendous job oppor- going to Alcoa, a $21⁄2 billion company; b tunities in this country, not in the Daimler Benz, $12 billion; GE, $70 bil- 0000 Middle East. lion. If there is research to be done, Mr. Chairman, we have been trying Coal research and development will clearly these corporations can afford to to manage this with good judgment in provide huge benefits for the Nation do it themselves. It is unlikely that a very responsible way. But speaking of and pay for itself many times over this program in any form and fashion responsibility, I would point out that through taxes flowing back to the is going to be able to generate profits there are contracts pending that will July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5123 require a commitment of this available programs, period, but my amendment ous idea; that this country needs a na- funding to meet the fact that the pri- at least saves the American taxpayer tional energy policy coordinated by vate sector is willing to go forward on some $21 million, about 7 percent of the Washington. It has since grown into a other types of technology. total spending, for the many fossil en- multi-billion dollar bureaucracy with This is a successful program. It is a ergy research programs contained in numerous wasteful missions. We do not good program. It means jobs for the fu- the appropriations bill. have a national energy policy today, ture. It means clean air. It means en- This savings is why this amendment thankfully. By the way, the price of ergy independence. We do not have to is endorsed by Citizens Against Gov- gas at the pump is at an historic low. send a team of soldiers to protect coal ernment Waste, the Competitive Enter- This is due to market forces, not gov- that is in the United States of Amer- prise Institute, the National Tax- ernment research programs. But we are ica. We do not have to build under- payers’ Union, and Americans for Tax stuck with the DOE and its many ground facilities to store it. It is there. Reform, among several other organiza- wasteful programs. Clean coal technology will enable us to tions. The Department of Energy itself has use this source of energy to improve Why do American corporations not not asked us to spend this money. It the quality of life and maintain our need these programs? Let me refer to a does not request these funds. Yet, we economic leadership in the world. report done by the Congressional Budg- are going to go ahead and spend it any- Mr. Chairman, I strongly urge a ‘‘no’’ et Office that looks at the Department way? What kind of sense does that vote on this amendment. of Energy’s fossil fuel programs. It re- make? There is no reason to plus up The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex- ports, and I quote from that report, these subsidies. I urge my colleagues, pired. ‘‘The major new technologies for en- even those who support government- Pursuant to the unanimous-consent hanced oil recovery have come from supported fossil fuel programs, to sup- agreement, the question is on the private industry, not the Department port this fiscally responsible amend- amendment offered by the gentleman of Energy.’’ The Energy Department ment. from Wisconsin [Mr. KLUG]. says, ‘‘This has little in the way of Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I rise in The question was taken; and the commercial applications to show for opposition to the amendment. Chairman announced that the noes ap- its investment.’’ Mr. Chairman, we have been respon- peared to have it. The fact that technological innova- sible. We have reduced the research Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I demand a tion and new commercial applications programs by 30 percent over the past recorded vote, and pending that I make is found in the private sector, not the few years, but we have tried to keep a point of order that a quorum is not government, comes as no surprise. A the good ones. Does anyone believe we present. Brookings Institute study found that did not send soldiers to Saudi Arabia The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Federal energy R&D has been an abject and Desert Storm to not protect an en- Resolution 181, further proceedings on failure. It reported, ‘‘The overriding ergy source that is overseas? Of course the amendment offered by the gen- lesson is that the goal of economic effi- we did. We spent billions of dollars tleman from Wisconsin [Mr. KLUG] will ciency is so severely constrained by po- doing it. be postponed. litical forces that an effective, coher- That illustrates how important fossil The point of no quorum is considered ent national commercial R&D program fuel sources are to this Nation, and withdrawn. has never been put in place.’’ makes a very powerful case to continue As we have heard tonight, the 1997 The Clerk will read. research programs that will do a num- budget resolution reached a similar The Clerk read as follows: ber of things; that will allow us to use finding about DOE energy R&D pro- FOSSIL ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT fossil fuels in a more efficient way, to grams. No, these corporate research For necessary expenses in carrying out fos- get more Btus that are useful in the subsidies, and subsidies is what they sil energy research and development activi- energy stream of this Nation. Fossil are, going to large corporations, some ties, under the authority of the Department fuel is going to be the choice that we of the largest multinationals in the of Energy Organization Act (Public Law 95– have to depend on for many, many 91), including the acquisition of interest, in- world, as a matter of fact, is not the di- years to come. These programs are de- cluding defeasible and equitable interests in rection we should be going. any real property or any facility or for plant We praise the American economy for signed to make our use of fossil sources or facility acquisition or expansion, and for being the most productive economy in more efficient. conducting inquiries, technological inves- the world. I will tell Members one Obviously, the private sector believes tigations and research concerning the ex- thing, our economy was not built on in them because they put up a good traction, processing, use, and disposal of government subsidies like the one this part of the money to do the research. mineral substances without objectionable so- As I said earlier, we do not fund com- cial and environmental costs (30 U.S.C. 3, amendment modestly cuts, and those economies in the world that are built mercialization. We have carefully 1602, and 1603), performed under the minerals guarded against any programs that get and materials science programs at the Al- on subsidies, think of the European bany Research Center in Oregon, $312,153,000, countries, those are economies that are beyond the development of technology. to remain available until expended: Provided, hurting. But we think it is very important for That no part of the sum herein made avail- Mr. Chairman, let me close with this the future of this Nation to ensure that able shall be used for the field testing of nu- argument. I want to make the point we have adequate energy sources from clear explosives in the recovery of oil and that tonight we have heard a lot about fossil sources, that we use these energy gas. the importance of research to our econ- sources in an effective way so we do AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. ROYCE omy. We have heard a lot about the im- not deprive future generations of the Mr. ROYCE. Mr. Chairman, I offer an portance of energy to our economy. No same quality of life we have had, and amendment. one doubts this. It is obvious, but that to use these sources in a way that will The Clerk read as follows: does not mean that every DOE research keep us competitive in the world mar- Amendment offered by Mr. ROYCE: Page 59, program deserves immunity. These five ketplace. line 10, insert after the dollar amount ‘‘(re- programs certainly do not. Mr. Chairman, I think at this point it duced by $21,014,000)’’. I ask Members to consider that these would be a serious mistake to violate Mr. ROYCE. Mr. Chairman, my five programs targeted by this amend- contracts that are already in place, to amendment simply cuts funding appro- ment are administered by the Depart- stop programs that are shown to have priated above the administration’s re- ment of Energy. That alone should give potential in midstream, and to cut at quest for five fossil energy research Members of this body pause. We have this juncture would not be a good man- and development programs, programs been hearing about waste and ineffi- agement on the part of our fossil pro- earmarked for coal, natural gas, and ciency in the DOE for years now. Many gram. the oil industries, programs that have Members in this body as well as former Mr. Chairman, I have to say to all of been discussed at some length tonight. Energy secretaries have supported the Members that we as a committee Mr. Chairman, I believe none of these abolishing the Energy Department. have been very careful in determining programs merit Federal funding. U.S. They are right, the Department of what programs work and what do not, private industry does not need these Energy was founded in 1976 on a dubi- and to make sure that we manage the H5124 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 taxpayers’ money efficiently on behalf amendment seeks to ignore the prior- this a Federal responsibility? Do we of their future in the fossil energy re- ities of those who best understand really have to have the Federal Gov- source programs. I strongly urge a no these programs. Mr. Chairman, in this ernment doing this program? vote on this amendment. Let us keep era, where we must emphasize domes- b 0015 these programs going so we can ensure tic solutions to the challenge of meet- that we have energy independence as a ing our ever-increasing energy needs, I am not convinced this is one. This Nation in the future, and we can insure the Royce amendment is a decisive is why it is called corporate welfare. that those who follow us will have the step backwards. I urge its defeat. The private sector can do that. We same quality of life and opportunities Mr. KLUG. Mr. Chairman, I move to have a lot of strengths in the private that result from having an adequate strike the requisite number of words. sector. We have a lot of belief in the supply of fossil-generated energy. Mr. Chairman, briefly, I rise in sup- private sector. While we have made Mr. DOYLE. Mr. Chairman, I move to port of the Royce amendment. Let me, great progress along the past couple strike the last word. if I can, put this in context. Again, we years in the spending on this particular Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to hear from opponents of the amendment appropriations subcommittee, this is the amendment offered by the gen- that sense that somehow if we go back one that, do we really need to keep tleman from California [Mr. ROYCE]. to the levels originally requested by spending this money? Why cannot the This is one of many amendments that the administration, that energy re- private sector? foolishly looks for savings in energy se- search in this country stops in its I go along with the gentleman from curity, an area of great importance to tracks. But the Department of Energy California [Mr. ROYCE] and the gen- our national security. spends $3.2 billion a year on a variety tleman from Wisconsin [Mr. KLUG], and Our economic well-being depends on of applied and basic research projects. I think this is an appropriate way to a secure and reliable energy supply. This amendment simply says, in 5 cut spending and to get some more sen- The Energy Information Agency has areas where we have done fossil re- sibility back into the total amount of predicted that for the foreseeable fu- search for 60 years, and again, we have money spent at the Department of En- ture, we will be getting over 85 percent told welfare recipients they have to be ergy. of our energy from fossil sources. So if off the dole for 2 years, but these re- Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- Members are looking to adjust the Fed- search programs can go on for 60 years, man, I move to strike the requisite eral investment in R&D in this area, and in five very specific programs we number of words. then Members had better understand simply roll back $21 million back to (Mr. BROWN of California asked and the ramifications of what they are try- what the administration requested. I was given permission to revise and ex- ing to do. think it is very clear the Department tend his remarks.) The Royce amendment is a textbook of Energy still has a lot of money to Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- example of how not to interfere with a man, there are several aspects of this program. After hearing hours and spend on programs it wants to fund, but I think we ought to let the Depart- debate which trouble me a little bit. I hours of testimony, the Subcommittee think we have all paid tribute to the on Interior of the Committee on Appro- ment of Energy, the experts, set the parameters. work that the Committee on Appro- priations decided to alter the adminis- priations has done in examining these tration’s budget. Some programs were I think, first of all, we need to keep in mind in this entire debate that I programs and making recommenda- increased in order to more effectively tions which will protect the public in- meet their missions. In order to pay for think private industry is much better, much better suited to identify and tar- terest and give us the most value for these increases, the Committee on the the taxpayers’ dollars that are being Interior has acted responsibly by find- get technologies that are commercially viable than DOE. According to our own spent here. ing offsets for these cuts. I am also informed that we are not The Royce amendment takes a sim- Congressional Budget Office, listen to above the President’s request in these plistic approach to deficit reduction. It this, ‘‘The major new technologies for items, that we are below the Presi- simply looks at any line item which advanced oil recovery, for example, dent’s request so we are not loading the Committee on Interior increased, have come from private industry, not this up excessively. ignores the fact that the plus-ups were from DOE. In other instances, DOE But the thing that really troubles me offset, and eliminates the increase. So continues to develop technologies in is that the subject matter of this de- the point of this amendment is to cut which the market clearly has no inter- bate has been before the committee, any program that the committee deter- est.’’ which I have the pleasure to serve on, mined to be of the highest priority. So the bottom line is we have thou- Let us look at the programs it cuts: sands of dollars in excess government the Committee on Science, the author- The low emission boiler system, a subsidies flowing to programs that izing committee, over the years. We cleaner-burning, high-efficiency tech- have delivered very little results; have conducted extensive research on nology that is moving into its final frankly, in this case, in the Committee these programs. We have tried to mon- stage of development. This is exactly on Appropriations, more money than itor the Defense Department. We have the type of technology our country is the Department of Energy wants to not found any department, including going to need to meet the requirements fund technology that, frankly, has al- the Energy Department, we have not of the Clean Air Act and international ready been the subject of billions of found any department, including en- emission reduction requirements. dollars in Federal grants. ergy, which is free from mistakes. And This stage requires the construction I urge my colleagues to support the we make an honest effort to correct of an actual plant, an undertaking that Royce amendment, and to put an end those wherever it is possible to do so. requires more funding than did the to corporate welfare as we know it. We think we have a sound program planning and design phase of earlier Mr. MILLER of Florida. Mr. Chair- here which is in the best interest of years. The committee recognized this, man, I move to strike the requisite this country. found an offset, and provided the nec- number of words. I have a sense, however, that those essary funding. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the who are arguing against these pro- The Royce amendment also cuts re- Royce amendment. While this may be grams have certain fundamental ideo- search on particulate matter monitor- only $21 million, every million dollars logical objections to the government ing. Any Member who is concerned counts. What we are only talking about participating in these. They do not like about the Clean Air Act compliance is going back to what the Department the idea that this country can benefit should care about this. Our current of Energy requested in this particular from a partnership between the govern- monitoring capability is insufficient, appropriation process. ment and the business community of and an effective understanding of our Mr. Chairman, when I first got elect- this country. air quality situation requires an im- ed and campaigned back in 1992, I had This for a long time produced an at- proved monitoring expertise. a basic question I kept saying, and I mosphere in which the government and The committee recognized this as a have been asking it every year for the industry were fighting each other. We high priority area, but once again, this past 4 years I have been here. It is, is have worked very hard to overcome July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5125 that, to find ways in which government mittee on Science for a large number dollars for boiler technology so that could play a role, the private sector of years, and it is my fond belief, my some company can make a big profit could play a role, appropriate to each, strong belief that this is the only way on it? Why should we do that, when and in most cases this means that we this country is going to succeed in other companies and other people in cooperate in developing the basic re- maintaining its economic priority in our society are investing in wind tech- search. the world before us. nology for energy, they are investing The private sector then carries that Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, in solar technology? research on through applications and I move to strike the requisite number I just had a conversation with a com- commercialization. This is what we are of words. pany that has invested, unlike what trying to achieve. It is a delicate bal- Mr. Chairman, I rise in total support the gentleman from California [Mr. ance. We admit that it is a delicate of the Royce amendment to bring some BROWN] has suggested, invested mil- balance. But there are some Members sanity to the spending of taxpayer dol- lions of dollars over two decades, not who persist in insisting that this is lars when it comes to shelling out tax- just one decade but two decades, to government subsidy or government payers’ dollars to huge corporations come up with new solar technology. We welfare. I see some nods coming from that make billions of dollars worth of are undercutting the entrepreneurs in my good friend on the other side. I profit. our society who know best by shovel- deny that this is the case. I would, first of all, like to say that ing government money, scarce govern- Those countries which pose the I have deep admiration for the speaker ment money to people who we, as poli- greatest threat to our economy are who just presented his case before us. ticians, think they should succeed as those which have achieved the most ef- The gentleman from California [Mr. compared to other people in the private fective balance and cooperation be- BROWN] had been the distinguished sector who are investing their own tween government and industry. There chairman of the Committee on Science money, other people who may have just is nothing perfect in these arrange- for many years. He is the ranking as good a chance of succeeding in de- ments. They have to be constantly member now. But over the years he veloping technology. scrutinized. There has to be a sense of was fair to every Republican that ever Quite often we know that the money really what is in the best interest by worked on the Committee on Science, is going for people who are developing people who have an understanding of and he is an honest and fair man. And technology who have special connec- the problems that face the Nation and what we have here is an honest and fair tions politically. My friend from Penn- the problems that face the private sec- disagreement as to a basic philosophy sylvania comes from a coal-burning tor in achieving solutions to those of what government should do and State or a coal-producing State. Is problems. what government should not do. there any question he is looking out I guarantee Members that there is What we have here is the gentleman for his constituents? He should. But not a corporation in this country that from California [Mr. ROYCE] who stands this is not the way to make decisions will invest money in a program in for a philosophy, a more conservative that will be in the best interest of the which there is no payoff for 10 years. free enterprise philosophy, versus the people in the long run, especially of the There is just no incentive for them to gentleman from California [Mr. BROWN] people of the United States of America. who has presented more of a philoso- do so. They would prefer to muck up In France they have tried this, where phy of government intervention in the the environment or do whatever else is you have a partnership between big name of benefit to the community and necessary to avoid spending money business and big government. What to the country as a whole. that does not have a payoff within 10 they have is they have massive unem- I think this is an honest disagree- years. ployment in France that would never This is that area in which coopera- ment. I think it is. I respect the opin- be acceptable in the United States. In tion is essential. We have to leverage ion of the gentleman from California Japan, Japan has gone through an eco- the interest of the private sector. We [Mr. BROWN], and I respect his motiva- nomic catastrophe in the last few have to provide an incentive for them tion. years. Why is that? It is because you to spend their money in the hopes of Let me say I believe that he is wrong. have government planning the econ- making a profit and moving forward I believe the philosophy that he is talk- omy and so when things go wrong, it is into a commercially viable activity. ing about has been an utter failure not just one company that has miscal- That is the whole thrust of this pro- over and over and over again. The part- culated, it is an entire industrial plan gram. nership between powerful government that has gone wrong. There are those here on this floor and powerful interest groups like big who deny that that is a proper role for business and big labor has never We should run away as far as possible government. I think we need to face worked for the benefit of the average from this idea that there should be a this realistically. We can nitpick the person. Instead these partnerships have partnership between government and particular projects. We can do any- tended to freeze out the little guy, the private sector. Although I will say thing we want. It will be easy to find have tended to use the taxpayers’ that it is motivated, those who advo- cases in which we misjudge, both the money for the benefit wealthy inter- cate this plan, they have the best of industry and the government mis- ests and the taxpayers end up footing motivations, the best of motivations. judged what the results might be. But the bill for all of this. They want what is right for America. in the long run, what we are doing is This is no different. What we are ar- I do not think it is going to take us basically aimed at preserving our en- guing about tonight is a $21 million in the right direction. It has not taken ergy independence in this country, pro- add-on that goes beyond what the De- France in the right direction, did not ducing a viable, growing, healthy econ- partment of Energy has requested from take Japan in the right direction. I will omy and providing for the welfare of the Congress. That is $21 million extra tell my colleagues, it certainly did not our children and our children’s chil- from what has been requested from the take the socialist countries in the dren and the future. I think that after Department of Energy. I even question right direction. The socialist countries the scrutiny that we have given these some of the projects the Department of that were all basically one big indus- programs over the years, we are ap- Energy has proposed. trial plan failed in a big way. proaching an understanding of what But here we are just talking about, So I would ask support of the Royce that proper balance is. should the Federal Government rush amendment and a tough stand for the I think it is contained, as closely as into relationships with companies that taxpayers. we can get, in the report that the sub- they themselves can afford the re- Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I move to committee has made here. I commend search and development of the new strike the requisite number of words. I the chairman and the members of that products or of the new technologies rise in opposition to the amendment, committee for the hard work and the that are being discussed? and I ask for a vote on the amendment. analysis that they have put into this. My friend from Pennsylvania dis- The CHAIRMAN. The question is on I can assure my colleagues that we cussed boiler technology. Why should the amendment offered by gentleman have done the same thing in the Com- we, for example, support millions of from California [Mr. ROYCE]. H5126 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 The question was taken; and the STRATEGIC PETROLEUM RESERVE cumstances relied upon in support of the pro- Chairman announced that the noes ap- (INCLUDING TRANSFER OF FUNDS) posed project. No funds provided in this Act may be ex- peared to have it. For necessary expenses for Strategic Pe- pended by the Department of Energy to pre- troleum Reserve facility development and Mr. ROYCE. Mr. Chairman, I demand pare, issue, or process procurement docu- operations and program management activi- a recorded vote. ments for programs or projects for which ap- ties pursuant to the Energy Policy and Con- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House propriations have not been made. Resolution 181, further proceedings on servation Act of 1975, as amended (42 U.S.C. In addition to other authorities set forth the amendment offered by the gen- 6201 et seq.), $209,000,000, to remain available in this Act, the Secretary may accept fees until expended, of which $209,000,000 shall be and contributions from public and private tleman from California [Mr. ROYCE] repaid from the ‘‘SPR Operating Fund’’ from will be postponed. sources, to be deposited in a contributed amounts made available from the sale of oil funds account, and prosecute projects using The Clerk will read. from the Reserve: Provided, That notwith- Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I ask such fees and contributions in cooperation standing section 161 of the Energy Policy with other Federal, State or private agencies unanimous consent that the remainder and Conservation Act, the Secretary shall or concerns. of the bill through page 76, line 7, be draw down and sell in fiscal year 1998 The Secretary is authorized to accept considered as read, printed in the $209,000,000 worth of oil from the Strategic funds from other Federal agencies in return RECORD, and open to amendment at Petroleum Reserve: Provided further, That for assisting agencies in achieving energy ef- any point. the proceeds from the sale shall be deposited ficiency in Federal facilities and operations into the ‘‘SPR Operating Fund’’, and shall, The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection by the use of privately financed, energy sav- upon receipt, be transferred to the Strategic ing performance contracts and other private to the request of the gentleman from Petroleum Reserve account for operations of Ohio? financing mechanisms. The funds may be the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. provided after agencies begin to realize en- There is no objection. SPR PETROLEUM ACCOUNT ergy cost savings; may be retained by the The text of the remainder of the bill Notwithstanding 42 U.S.C. 6240(d) the Unit- Secretary until expended; and may be used through page 76, line 7 is as follows: ed States share of crude oil in Naval Petro- only for the purpose of assisting Federal ALTERNATIVE FUELS PRODUCTION leum Reserve Numbered 1 (Elk Hills) may be agencies in achieving greater efficiency, (INCLUDING TRANSFER OF FUNDS) sold or otherwise disposed of to other than water conservation, and use of renewable en- Monies received as investment income on the Strategic Petroleum Reserve: Provided, ergy by means of privately financed mecha- the principal amount in the Great Plains That outlays in fiscal year 1998 resulting nisms, including energy savings performance Project Trust at the Norwest Bank of North from the use of funds in this account shall contracts. Any such privately financed con- Dakota, in such sums as are earned as of Oc- not exceed $5,000,000. tracts shall meet the provisions of the En- tober 1, 1997, shall be deposited in this ac- ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION ergy Policy Act of 1992, Public Law 102–496 count and immediately transferred to the For necessary expenses in carrying out the (42 U.S.C. 8287). General Fund of the Treasury. Monies re- activities of the Energy Information Admin- DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN ceived as revenue sharing from operation of istration, $66,800,000, to remain available SERVICES the Great Plains Gasification Plant shall be until expended. INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE immediately transferred to the General Fund ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS, DEPARTMENT OF INDIAN HEALTH SERVICES of the Treasury. ENERGY For expenses necessary to carry out the NAVAL PETROLEUM AND OIL SHALE RESERVES Appropriations under this Act for the cur- Act of August 5, 1954 (68 Stat. 674), the Indian For necessary expenses in carrying out rent fiscal year shall be available for hire of Self-Determination Act, the Indian Health naval petroleum and oil shale reserve activi- passenger motor vehicles; hire, maintenance, Care Improvement Act, and titles II and III ties, $115,000,000, and such sums as are nec- and operation of aircraft; purchase, repair, of the Public Health Service Act with re- essary to operate Naval Petroleum Reserve and cleaning of uniforms; and reimburse- spect to the Indian Health Service, Numbered 1 between May 16, 1998 and Sep- ment to the General Services Administration $1,829,008,000, together with payments re- tember 30, 1998, to remain available until ex- for security guard services. ceived during the fiscal year pursuant to 42 pended: Provided, That notwithstanding any From appropriations under this Act, trans- U.S.C. 238(b) for services furnished by the In- other provision of law, revenues received fers of sums may be made to other agencies dian Health Service: Provided, That funds from use and operation of Naval Petroleum of the Government for the performance of made available to tribes and tribal organiza- Reserve Numbered 1 in excess of $163,000,000 work for which the appropriation is made. tions through contracts, grant agreements, shall be used to offset the costs of operating None of the funds made available to the or any other agreements or compacts au- Naval Petroleum Reserve Numbered 1 be- Department of Energy under this Act shall thorized by the Indian Self-Determination tween May 16, 1998 and September 30, 1998: be used to implement or finance authorized and Education Assistance Act of 1975 (25 Provided further, That revenues retained pur- price support or loan guarantee programs U.S.C. 450), shall be deemed to be obligated suant to the first proviso under this head in unless specific provision is made for such at the time of the grant or contract award Public Law 102–381 (106 Stat. 1404) shall be programs in an appropriations Act. and thereafter shall remain available to the immediately transferred to the General Fund The Secretary is authorized to accept tribe or tribal organization without fiscal of the Treasury: Provided further, That the lands, buildings, equipment, and other con- year limitation: Provided further, That requirements of 10 U.S.C. 7430(b)(2)(B) shall tributions from public and private sources $12,000,000 shall remain available until ex- not apply to fiscal year 1998. and to prosecute projects in cooperation pended, for the Indian Catastrophic Health with other agencies, Federal, State, private Emergency Fund: Provided further, That ENERGY CONSERVATION or foreign: Provided, That revenues and other $359,348,000 for contract medical care shall For necessary expenses in carrying out en- moneys received by or for the account of the remain available for obligation until Sep- ergy conservation activities, $636,766,000, to Department of Energy or otherwise gen- tember 30, 1999: Provided further, That of the remain available until expended, including, erated by sale of products in connection with funds provided, not less than $11,889,000 shall notwithstanding any other provision of law, projects of the Department appropriated be used to carry out the loan repayment pro- the excess amount for fiscal year 1998 deter- under this Act may be retained by the Sec- gram under section 108 of the Indian Health mined under the provisions of section 3003(d) retary of Energy, to be available until ex- Care Improvement Act: Provided further, of Public Law 99–509 (15 U.S.C. 4502): Pro- pended, and used only for plant construction, That funds provided in this Act may be used vided, That $149,845,000 shall be for use in en- operation, costs, and payments to cost-shar- for one-year contracts and grants which are ergy conservation programs as defined in ing entities as provided in appropriate cost- to be performed in two fiscal years, so long section 3008(3) of Public Law 99–509 (15 U.S.C. sharing contracts or agreements: Provided as the total obligation is recorded in the 4507) and shall not be available until excess further, That the remainder of revenues after year for which the funds are appropriated: amounts are determined under the provi- the making of such payments shall be cov- Provided further, That the amounts collected sions of section 3003(d) of Public Law 99–509 ered into the Treasury as miscellaneous re- by the Secretary of Health and Human Serv- (15 U.S.C. 4502): Provided further, That not- ceipts: Provided further, That any contract, ices under the authority of title IV of the In- withstanding section 3003(d)(2) of Public Law agreement, or provision thereof entered into dian Health Care Improvement Act shall re- 99–509 such sums shall be allocated to the eli- by the Secretary pursuant to this authority main available until expended for the pur- gible programs as follows: $120,845,000 for shall not be executed prior to the expiration pose of achieving compliance with the appli- weatherization assistance grants and of 30 calendar days (not including any day in cable conditions and requirements of titles $29,000,000 for State energy conservation which either House of Congress is not in ses- XVIII and XIX of the Social Security Act grants. sion because of adjournment of more than (exclusive of planning, design, or construc- ECONOMIC REGULATION three calendar days to a day certain) from tion of new facilities): Provided further, That For necessary expenses in carrying out the the receipt by the Speaker of the House of of the funds provided, $7,500,000 shall remain activities of the Office of Hearings and Ap- Representatives and the President of the available until expended, for the Indian Self- peals, $2,725,000, to remain available until ex- Senate of a full comprehensive report on Determination Fund, which shall be avail- pended. such project, including the facts and cir- able for the transitional costs of initial or July 10, 1997 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H5127 expanded tribal contracts, compacts, grants portation: Provided further, That notwith- Development, as authorized by title XV of or cooperative agreements with the Indian standing any other provision of law, funds Public Law 99–498, as amended (20 U.S.C. 56, Health Service under the provisions of the previously or herein made available to a Part A), $3,000,000. Indian Self-Determination Act: Provided fur- tribe or tribal organization through a con- SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION ther, That funding contained herein, and in tract, grant, or agreement authorized by any earlier appropriations Acts for scholar- title I or title III of the Indian Self-Deter- SALARIES AND EXPENSES ship programs under the Indian Health Care mination and Education Assistance Act of For necessary expenses of the Smithsonian Improvement Act (25 U.S.C. 1613) shall re- 1975 (25 U.S.C. 450), may be deobligated and Institution, as authorized by law, including main available for obligation until Septem- reobligated to a self-determination contract research in the fields of art, science, and his- ber 30, 1999: Provided further, That amounts under title I, or a self-governance agreement tory; development, preservation, and docu- received by tribes and tribal organizations under title III of such Act and thereafter mentation of the National Collections; pres- under title IV of the Indian Health Care Im- shall remain available to the tribe or tribal entation of public exhibits and perform- provement Act shall be reported and ac- organization without fiscal year limitation: ances; collection, preparation, dissemina- counted for and available to the receiving Provided further, That none of the funds made tion, and exchange of information and publi- tribes and tribal organizations until ex- available to the Indian Health Service in this cations; conduct of education, training, and pended. Act shall be used to implement the final rule museum assistance programs; maintenance, INDIAN HEALTH FACILITIES published in the Federal Register on Septem- alteration, operation, lease (for terms not to For construction, repair, maintenance, im- ber 16, 1987, by the Department of Health and exceed thirty years), and protection of build- provement, and equipment of health and re- Human Services, relating to the eligibility ings, facilities, and approaches; not to exceed lated auxiliary facilities, including quarters for the health care services of the Indian $100,000 for services as authorized by 5 U.S.C. for personnel; preparation of plans, specifica- Health Service until the Indian Health Serv- 3109; up to 5 replacement passenger vehicles; tions, and drawings; acquisition of sites, pur- ice has submitted a budget request reflecting purchase, rental, repair, and cleaning of uni- chase and erection of modular buildings, and the increased costs associated with the pro- forms for employees; $334,557,000, of which purchases of trailers; and for provision of do- posed final rule, and such request has been not to exceed $32,718,000 for the instrumenta- mestic and community sanitation facilities included in an appropriations Act and en- tion program, collections acquisition, Mu- for Indians, as authorized by section 7 of the acted into law: Provided further, That funds seum Support Center equipment and move, Act of August 5, 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2004a), the In- made available in this Act are to be appor- exhibition reinstallation, the National Mu- dian Self-Determination Act, and the Indian tioned to the Indian Health Service as appro- seum of the American Indian, the repatri- Health Care Improvement Act, and for ex- priated in this Act, and accounted for in the ation of skeletal remains program, research penses necessary to carry out such Acts and appropriation structure set forth in this Act: equipment, information management, and titles II and III of the Public Health Service Provided further, That funds received from Latino programming shall remain available Act with respect to environmental health any source, including tribal contractors and until expended, and including such funds as and facilities support activities of the Indian compactors for previously transferred func- may be necessary to support American over- Health Service, $257,310,000, to remain avail- tions which tribal contractors and compac- seas research centers and a total of $125,000 able until expended: Provided, That notwith- tors no longer wish to retain, for services, for the Council of American Overseas Re- standing any other provision of law, funds goods, or training and technical assistance, search Centers: Provided, That funds appro- appropriated for the planning, design, con- shall be retained by the Indian Health Serv- priated herein are available for advance pay- struction or renovation of health facilities ice and shall remain available until expended ments to independent contractors perform- by the Indian Health Service: Provided fur- for the benefit of an Indian tribe or tribes ing research services or participating in offi- ther, That reimbursements for training, tech- may be used to purchase land for sites to cial Smithsonian presentations. nical assistance, or services provided by the construct, improve, or enlarge health or re- Indian Health Service will contain total CONSTRUCTION AND IMPROVEMENTS, NATIONAL lated facilities. costs, including direct, administrative, and ZOOLOGICAL PARK ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS, INDIAN HEALTH overhead associated with the provision of For necessary expenses of planning, con- SERVICE goods, services, or technical assistance: Pro- struction, remodeling, and equipping of Appropriations in this Act to the Indian vided further, That the appropriation struc- buildings and facilities at the National Zoo- Health Service shall be available for services ture for the Indian Health Service may not logical Park, by contract or otherwise, as authorized by 5 U.S.C. 3109 but at rates be altered without advance approval of the $3,850,000, to remain available until ex- not to exceed the per diem rate equivalent to House and Senate Committees on Appropria- pended. the maximum rate payable for senior-level tions. REPAIR AND RESTORATION OF BUILDINGS positions under 5 U.S.C. 5376; hire of pas- OTHER RELATED AGENCIES senger motor vehicles and aircraft; purchase For necessary expenses of repair and res- OFFICE OF NAVAJO AND HOPI INDIAN of medical equipment; purchase of reprints; toration of buildings owned or occupied by RELOCATION purchase, renovation and erection of modu- the Smithsonian Institution, by contract or lar buildings and renovation of existing fa- SALARIES AND EXPENSES otherwise, as authorized by section 2 of the cilities; payments for telephone service in For necessary expenses of the Office of Act of August 22, 1949 (63 Stat. 623), including private residences in the field, when author- Navajo and Hopi Indian Relocation as au- not to exceed $10,000 for services as author- ized under regulations approved by the Sec- thorized by Public Law 93–531, $18,345,000, to ized by 5 U.S.C. 3109, $50,000,000, to remain retary; and for uniforms or allowances there- remain available until expended: Provided, available until expended: Provided, That con- fore as authorized by 5 U.S.C. 5901–5902; and That funds provided in this or any other ap- tracts awarded for environmental systems, for expenses of attendance at meetings which propriations Act are to be used to relocate protection systems, and exterior repair or are concerned with the functions or activi- eligible individuals and groups including restoration of buildings of the Smithsonian ties for which the appropriation is made or evictees from District 6, Hopi-partitioned Institution may be negotiated with selected which will contribute to improved conduct, lands residents, those in significantly sub- contractors and awarded on the basis of con- supervision, or management of those func- standard housing, and all others certified as tractor qualifications as well as price. eligible and not included in the preceding tions or activities: Provided, That in accord- NATIONAL GALLERY OF ART ance with the provisions of the Indian Health categories: Provided further, That none of the Care Improvement Act, non-Indian patients funds contained in this or any other Act may SALARIES AND EXPENSES may be extended health care at all tribally be used by the Office of Navajo and Hopi In- For the upkeep and operations of the Na- dian Relocation to evict any single Navajo or administered or Indian Health Service facili- tional Gallery of Art, the protection and Navajo family who, as of November 30, 1985, ties, subject to charges, and the proceeds care of the works of art therein, and admin- was physically domiciled on the lands parti- along with funds recovered under the Federal istrative expenses incident thereto, as au- tioned to the Hopi Tribe unless a new or re- Medical Care Recovery Act (42 U.S.C. 2651–53) thorized by the Act of March 24, 1937 (50 Stat. placement home is provided for such house- shall be credited to the account of the facil- 51), as amended by the public resolution of hold: Provided further, That no relocatee will ity providing the service and shall be avail- April 13, 1939 (Public Resolution 9, Seventy- be provided with more than one new or re- able without fiscal year limitation: Provided sixth Congress), including services as author- placement home: Provided further, That the further, That notwithstanding any other law ized by 5 U.S.C. 3109; payment in advance Office shall relocate any certified eligible or regulation, funds transferred from the De- when authorized by the treasurer of the Gal- relocatees who have selected and received an partment of Housing and Urban Development lery for membership in library, museum, and approved homesite on the Navajo reservation to the Indian Health Service shall be admin- art associations or societies whose publica- or selected a replacement residence off the istered under Public Law 86–121 (the Indian tions or services are available to members Navajo reservation or on the land acquired Sanitation Facilities Act) and Public Law only, or to members at a price lower than to pursuant to 25 U.S.C. 640d–10. 93–638, as amended: Provided further, That the general public; purchase, repair, and funds appropriated to the Indian Health INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN AND ALASKA cleaning of uniforms for guards, and uni- Service in this Act, except those used for ad- NATIVE CULTURE AND ARTS DEVELOPMENT forms, or allowances therefor, for other em- ministrative and program direction pur- PAYMENT TO THE INSTITUTE ployees as authorized by law (5 U.S.C. 5901– poses, shall not be subject to limitations di- For payment to the Institute of American 5902); purchase or rental of devices and serv- rected at curtailing Federal travel and trans- Indian and Alaska Native Culture and Arts ices for protecting buildings and contents H5128 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE July 10, 1997 thereof, and maintenance, alteration, im- TAX CUTS alized West. ‘‘The central purpose,’’ said provement, and repair of buildings, ap- Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown, proaches, and grounds; and purchase of serv- (Mr. SMITH of Michigan asked and ‘‘is to insure that Britain is equipped to rise ices for restoration and repair of works of was given permission to address the to the challenge of the new and fast-chang- art for the National Gallery of Art by con- House for 1 minute and to revise and ing global economy.’’ tracts made, without advertising, with indi- extend his remarks and include extra- Contrast those sophisticated sentiments viduals, firms, or organizations at such rates neous material.) with what President Clinton was doing at or prices and under such terms and condi- Mr. SMITH of Michigan. Mr. Speak- the same time in Washington—making tions as the Gallery may deem proper, noises that he’ll veto an extremely modest er, I think it is very disingenuous when tax-relief bill if it doesn’t meet his own spec- $55,837,000, of which not to exceed $3,026,000 our friends from the other side of the for the special exhibition program shall re- ifications. Clinton may be just bluffing, but main available until expended. aisle say they want tax cuts. First of he’s taking delight in fanning the flames of all, I think Republicans are making a class warfare just as Britain’s Socialists are REPAIR, RESTORATION AND RENOVATION OF eschewing such nonsense. BUILDINGS mistake because what is happening now is the liberals spend 10 percent ef- But what if the president does veto the bill For necessary expenses of repair, restora- that emerges from a House-Senate con- tion and renovation of buildings, grounds fort on developing policy and 90 per- ference? Then, Republican leaders—notably, and facilities owned or occupied by the Na- cent on spinning it. Republicans spend Speaker Newt Gingrich—should tell him, in tional Gallery of Art, by contract or other- 90 percent on developing policy but the immortal words of Clint Eastwood, ‘‘Go wise, as authorized, $6,442,000, to remain only spend 10 percent on spinning it. So ahead. Make my day.’’ available until expended: Provided, That con- there is a great deal of misunderstand- They should make it clear that if Clinton tracts awarded for environmental systems, ing out there. rejects the puny cuts in the current bills protection systems, and exterior repair or (amounting to one percent of projected tax Mr. Speaker, I will include as part of revenues over the next five years), then the renovation of buildings of the National Gal- my remarks Jim Glassman’s article in lery of Art may be negotiated with selected budget deal is off forever, and Plan B will contractors and awarded on the basis of con- yesterday’s Washington Post that swing into effect. I’ll describe Plan B below, tractor qualifications as well as price. spells out some of the differences be- but, first, let’s look at what divides the an- tagonists: JOHN F. KENNEDY CENTER FOR THE tween the Republicans and the Demo- crats. Child credit. Under GOP bills, families that PERFORMING ARTS earn less than $110,000 will be able to knock OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE I would like to simply conclude that $400 to $500 per child off their final tax bills. we have a tax system that punishes our For necessary expenses for the operation, The median two-earner family (making maintenance and security of the John F. businesses to the extent that they have $53,000 a year) with three kids would see Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, to move out of this country. The cost taxes fall from $5,100 to $3,600—a huge cut. $11,375,000. of labor is 10 to 12 percent of the cost Clinton wants the credit to apply as well to of producing an item. The taxes run up many families that don’t make enough to CONSTRUCTION pay income taxes, and he starts phasing out For necessary expenses for capital repair to 39 percent in this country. We need the break for couples making $60,000. and rehabilitation of the existing features of to be looking at the kind of tax policy Capital gains. Under the House and Senate the building and site of the John F. Kennedy that is going to expand the economy. bills, the top rate would fall from 28 percent Center for the Performing Arts, $9,000,000, to f to 20 percent on the sale of assets such as remain available until expended. stocks and bonds. Clinton wants a 30 percent ‘‘exclusion’’ from ordinary income, which WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR TAX CUTS means that, for top earners, the rate would SCHOLARS (Mr. SMITH of Michigan asked and fall to just 27.7 percent—a nose-thumbing SALARIES AND EXPENSES was given permission to address the mockery. The House wouldn’t tax profits For necessary expenses of the Woodrow House for 1 minute and to revise and boosted by inflation. Wilson International Center for Scholars, extend his remarks and include extra- Democratic critics of the GOP plan say $1,000,000. neous material.) that it reduces taxes more for those with high incomes than those with low. Maybe so, The CHAIRMAN. Are there further Mr. SMITH of Michigan. Mr. Speak- but it’s nearly impossible for a cut in income amendments to the bill from pages 59, er, I think it is very disingenuous when taxes to do anything else. That’s because line 14, through page 76, line 7? our friends from the other side of the low-income Americans pay little or nothing. Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move aisle say they want tax cuts. First of The figures are astonishing. According to that the Committee do now rise. all, I think Republicans are making a the IRS, the top 5 percent of earners pay 47 The motion was agreed to. mistake because what is happening percent of the nation’s income taxes. The top Accordingly the Committee rose; and now is the liberals spend 10 percent of 10 percent pay 59 percent, and the bottom 50 percent of earners pay only a 5 percent the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. MILLER their time on developing policy and 90 share. of Florida) having assumed the chair, percent on spinning it. Republicans Apparently unaware of such numbers, the Mr. LATOURETTE, Chairman of the spend 90 percent on developing policy Democratic Policy Committee recently sent Committee of the Whole House on the but only spend 10 percent on spinning an outraged fax to talk-radio hosts around State of the Union, reported that that it. So there is a great deal of misunder- the country: ‘‘Under the current GOP propos- Committee, having had under consider- standing out there. als, the top 1 percent of Americans would re- ceive more benefits than the combined bot- ation the bill (H.R. 2107) making appro- Mr. Speaker, I will include as part of tom 60 percent in tax cuts.’’ priations for the Department of the In- my remarks Jim Glassman’s article in But the IRS reports that the top one per- terior and related agencies for the fis- yesterday’s Washington Post that cent of Americans pay 29 percent of the na- cal year ending September 30, 1998, and spells out some of the differences be- tion’s income tax bill; the bottom 60 percent for other purposes, had come to no res- tween the Republicans and the Demo- pay just 9 percent. So, to be fair, the top one olution thereon. crats. percent should get triple the cuts of the bot- tom 60 percent. I would like to simply conclude that Teh resourceful administration has a way b 0028 we have a tax system that punishes our to give tax cuts to people who don’t owe businesses to the extent that they have taxes. It wants to send checks—welfare bene- f to move out of this country. The cost fits to inspire breeding—to millions of fami- of labor is 10 to 12 percent of the cost lies that don’t qualify for tax breaks because HOUR OF MEETING ON FRIDAY, of producing an item. The taxes run up their income tax bills amount to zero. JULY 11, 1997 to 39 percent in this country. We need Will Republican leaders compromise with the White House before going to conference? Mr. ROYCE. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan- to be looking at the kind of tax policy If they do, they should be laughed out of of- imous consent that when the House ad- that is going to expand the economy. fice. Economic consultant Jude Wanniski journs today, it adjourn to meet at 9:30 [From the Washington Post, July 8, 1997] told clients last week that the president’s a.m. today. THEN THERE’S PLAN B ‘‘tax proposal is clearly at the level of fun The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. MIL- and games, with Clinton trying to steal (By James K. Glassman) Newt’s underwear after talking him out of LER of Florida). Is there objection to The new Labor government of Tony Blair his outer garments in the 104th Congress.’’ the request of the gentleman from last week passed its first budget, and the What happens if Gingrich stands firm and California? main feature was a tax cut that gives British Clinton issues his veto? That triggers what I There was no objection. businesses the lowest rates in the industri- call Plan B: