Interrogation with Felicia Oh, BJJ Black Belt, Pan Am Grappling Champion, ADCC Trials Champion, Grapplers Quest Champion and RKC!

ZE - Felicia, thanks for taking the time to do this interview with us at USC! Give us some background as to how you got involved in all your physical training and what type of training you normally perform.

FO - In 2000, I went on a camping trip with some friends. On the drive up, my friend's husband told me about the UFC and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and how BJJ was about skill and technique being more important than size and strength. Well, the camping trip went horribly awry and earlier the same year, I had run the LA Marathon and that was also a terrible experience.

© 2007 www.UndergroundStrengthCoach.com So, ready to try something different (and indoors), I went to watch my friend's husband's BJJ class. I went back the next day and signed up. At first, I just trained twice a week. Then I started to compete and did pretty well. I progressed pretty quickly. I slowly added more BJJ classes until I was training most days of the week.

I also realized that additional conditioning outside of BJJ class was necessary to help me compete better. I'd done a lot of different workouts over the years including weight training, running, stairs, etc. I used to be gymnast as a kid and they always had us doing body weight circuits, running, stairs in the stadium and lifting all the time.

Then I injured my back when I was 15 years old. It's been a perpetual problem that's fluctuated over the years, never going away...just more painful and less painful. Over the years, I had tried everything for my back, and the pain would occasionally lessen, but never went away.

Even doing BJJ, my back would usually be okay if I was rolling around and moving, but if I sat still, it would tighten up and it would be difficult for me to just get back up on my feet. In November 2005, it got really bad...not just back pain, but there was a burning pain starting in my lower back that started to spread down the back of my left leg. I tried chiropractors (again) and also a strength and conditioning coach who said I needed to strengthen my core.

Strangely, the stronger I got, the worse the pain actually got. The pain was now almost down to my knee and was so bad, I could barely training jiu-jitsu twice a week and not

© 2007 www.UndergroundStrengthCoach.com without a LOT of pain. At this time, I happened to meet a bodyworker and decided to give it a try. After a couple of bodywork sessions, the pain started to recede and my perpetually hard and tight back muscles which also kept my pelvis tilted under (after all, that's over 20 years of my body trying to "protect" itself) started to loosen up.

My body started to change. As the muscles started to loosen up, my body started to move differently. The way I walked started to change. Then I was told that I should try Kettlebells and that they would help my back even more. I finally gave it a try and I had fun doing the workouts. It actually took me a while to get the basic swing because I was so conditioned to protect my back in a certain way and the movement to do the swing correctly was really hard for me to trust. I liked the kettlebell workouts and started using them more and even got certified as an instructor. Currently, my conditioning routine is based around Kettlebell workouts.

ZE - How has your training evolved through the years to your current style of training? Have there been specific people or situations that have influenced your style or methods of training?

FO - I've been doing BJJ for the last 6 years. Throughout my life, I did many different sports competitively and recreationally (none of which I was very good at) including gymnastics, running track, cross country, basketball, rock climbing even football and one marathon.

As for conditioning for BJJ and grappling...well, I've tried a lot of different workouts and protocols...running, hills, sprint intervals, stairs (even w/a weighted vest which was really an old style camo bulletproof vest...always a topic of conversation with other people at the track!), circuits, weights, swimming, etc.

After learning about kettlebells, I've had a lot of success with them. I find that I can do different types of kettlebell workouts depending on what phase of training I'm in and I

I'm not dogmatic about any kind of exercise. I just find that right now, kettlebells are working really well for me. The workouts are really quick and I don't have to drive anywhere and spend a lot of time conditioning to get the benefits and results. That is one of the most important things.

I can do a full workout or just get a few reps in anywhere...on the mat or in my living room. I don't have to go anywhere and I'm not dependent on my surroundings for equipment, waiting for someone else to finish their sets or need a partner (although it's nice). Grappling is also way more fun and I'd rather spend more time doing that!

ZE - There are so many grapplers that do little or no training aside from the training they do on the mat. Still, if their technical skills are very high they are able to dominate someone who is less skilled yet very physically fit. How have you been able to find the healthy balance between grappling and training off the mat?

FO - Well, for me, finding that balance was really easy because I'm a small woman. There's no way I was going to outmuscle any of the guys in my class. I had no choice but to learn the techniques to survive. For guys, and especially for strong and fit guys that are starting out, it's a lot tougher. Putting the ego aside and learning technique is the most important thing to progress in grappling.

A really strong physically fit guy will do really well...for a while. If he is not willing to work on technique and hold back on using his strength, size and speed, his progress will be slow and the small guy who started at the same time but didn't have the size and strength to rely on will progress faster.

You have to be willing to take chances and learn and practice new techniques. You have to be willing to take the chance that you might "lose" in rolling. The first few times you

© 2007 www.UndergroundStrengthCoach.com try something new, you won't be able to do it right. You have to practice it over and over, make adjustments and practice it more and then make more adjustments until you make it work for you.

It is different for each person based on body type, flexiblity, strength, how your opponent reacts, etc. In the process of learning, you WILL get tapped. You WILL lose position. It's training...it doesn't matter.

Now, to go to class and roll on the mat, I don't think you really need to do any additional conditioning. You just have to keep yourself on the mat as long as you can. Try to roll for longer and longer periods of time. Don't, as they say, "shoot your wad" on the first round.

I think where conditioning really becomes a factor is if you are going to compete. Competition adds a whole new dimension to grappling. You are no longer in your academy rolling with the guys you know playing their own particular game that you have seen day in and day out. Now you're in front of a crowd of people facing off against someone you may or may not know anything about and whose game you may or may not know anything about.

Something about competition and being in front of a bunch of spectators in a different environment brings the nerves out and the adrenaline dumps and suddenly you're gassed and only 45 seconds have passed! You haven't realized it but you've also stopped breathing! How does this happen? You can usually roll for 45 continuous minutes in class, but now you're gassed in 45 seconds. THAT is where conditioning makes all the difference in the world.

ZE - Do you follow a specific style of eating? There are many "popular" diets out there, have any influenced you or did you come upon your own eating habits through trial and error?

© 2007 www.UndergroundStrengthCoach.com FO - Well, I came up with my vegetarian eating habits as a 13 year-old bulimic gymnast LOL!!! It's true...I stopped eating meat at that time...but then I overcame my bulimia years ago...I just never went back to eating meat again. Sometimes I think about trying it again but then sort of figure, I've done it this long, why bother eating meat again? Every once in a while, I'll try to get myself to eat it. At Thanksgiving, I tried to eat some turkey...but just couldn't. I tasted a little bit of gravy on my potatoes, and really didn't like the taste.

Once in a while, I'll force myself to overlook the chicken broth that a soup is probably made of and just enjoy the soup. The one meat thing whose smell really gets me is bacon! Lucky for me, fake soy bacon is awesome and even meat eaters like it! So I eat that. I do eat seafood and some eggs and dairy.

It's all really easy now because it is so much more common and there are so many alternatives to meat. When I'm preparing for something, I get more strict and try to eat a more alkaline type diet with lots of veggies and salads. I feel it definitely helps my energy and recovery. Life force greens (www.lifeforcegreens.com) is a great supplement too. But then I'll get tired of eating greens.

For me, I can't be super strict all the time...so if I don't have anything coming up, I'll loosen up for a while and enjoy other foods (like sweets!!!) and then eventually I'll be ready to go back to more veggies. Everything in life has it's ebb and flow...

ZE - Give us a sample workout you might perform "off" the mat to improve performance and conditioning, and, do you perform any specific drills "on the mat" to improve performance?

FO - Doing drills on the mat is always a good thing. Sometimes the hardest thing is just finding a partner to drill with you. It can be boring for some people and they don't want to do it. I don't do it as much anymore but when you're starting out, it's really important.

© 2007 www.UndergroundStrengthCoach.com Drilling basic things...armbars, hip escapes, body movements...all of that is good. You have to train your body and your muscles how to move. You have to build muscle memory. For most people, moving and rolling around on the ground is not a "normal" thing, so you have to practice it. When my students try a new move for the first time and tell me "it doesn't feel right", all I can do is laugh. How do they know what "right" is if they've never done it before?

Off the mat, I'll use the kettlebell. I do different things depending on what I want to work on. Sometimes it's just sets of one specific exercise like 10 sets of 10 snatches with 1 min rests. Other times it's just trying new techniques and trying to perfect old ones...I guess you could call it drilling, lol...and other times it's exercises with a time component. I try to sequence the exercises to move around to different parts of the body never fully fatiguing one area completely.

Most kettlebell exercises require body muscle coordination similar to what's needed on the mat. Conditioning is not only for speed, strength and endurance, it's also about body control and getting my muscles working together in a way that will improve my grappling game.

ZE - What methods do you use to aid in recovery. Grappling is a very traumatic sport, have you had to recover from any mild or serious injuries since beginning your training? have any methods worked better than others?

Injuries from grappling???? I've never heard of that!!!! LOL!!!

Ummmm....surgery helps with some serious injuries ;) LOL! I completely tore my ACL and had it reconstructed. Does that count?

There are ALWAYS injuries...mild and serious. They are part of the sport. Different injuries require different treatments. I try not to take a lot of pain killers, anti- inflammatories...those kinds of things. I want to feel the injuries and take care of

I use a liquid joint supplement. I think it's more effective than capsules or pills. Duct tape works for a lot of things. The problem with grapplers is that even if they're injured, they still keep training. So, that being part of their "genetic makeup", the smart ones will use the injury to their advantage and change and improve their game as a result of it.

ZE - I'm going to rattle off some quick phrases and you can just answer back with one word, a few words, or however you want, there are No rules to this one (or anything we do for that matter:):

ZE - Training on an empty stomach first thing in the morning:

FO - I used to always do it. I have changed that and now I try to eat before training. Lately it's been oatmeal.

ZE - Muay Thai:

FO - I did it for a year. I wanted to experience it, learn what it was and how to punch and kick. It was really hard to split myself between two disciplines and so after I tore my acl, I didn't go back to Muay-Thai. Grappling is much more fun for me and I don't get hit (as much).

ZE - Distance jogging:

FO - I did a marathon once. I think that's enough ;-) I don't think it's necessary for what I do and it's more damaging than beneficial for my body now. But on occasion, I might go for a little jog.

FO - I'm good at it (or so the teacher said) but it's a lot of self inflicted pain and there are no submissions.

ZE - Favorite MMA fighter?

FO - Any multi-dimensional fighter going out to finish the fight. It keeps the sport unpredictable and exciting. Boring fights are boring.

ZE - Favorite Grappler?

FO - Any grappler that goes after the submission. Who wants to watch a boring match where nothing happens? I like grapplers that go after submissions, not just the point win. It's such an exciting sport when people go after submissions. My teachers are very offensive and that's probably where I learned that style and approach to the game. In terms of personalities, there are just a ton of cool people in the sport...shameless plug: check out the GrappleTV Interviews on my website!

ZE - Alwyn Cosgrove shows up late for a Kettlebell class, do you choke him out, or use a Judo throw and toss his ass?

FO - Well, since it's a kettlebell class and not a grappling class, there's a lot less physical contact...so it would be more verbal/emotional abuse...(and not just from me but from the women in the class!!!)...you know...maybe a few comments about swinging the "Christmas ornament" (i.e. the 4kg kettlebell) that even the new girls in class don't use. Now, if he shows up late for a grappling class...

ZE - Best method for conditioning yourself for grappling:

ZE - Favorite exercise:

FO - Ugh....none. They are all horrible! But some suck less than others. The honest truth is that I'd much rather be having fun rolling around on the mat grappling than "exercising". So, that being said...whatever I can get myself to do that I feel helps me grapple better. I'm always willing to try different things...I'm open.

ZE - Favorite submission:

FO - Whatever my opponent gives me.

ZE - Felicia, thanks again for taking the time to be with us at USC! Any closing thoughts you would like to give our readers please, feel FREE :) Also, let them know about your web site and how they can get an opportunity to train with you at Big John's place.

FO - Grappling and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu take a long time to learn. Don't get caught up on the belts. Just try to become a better grappler. You can do anything with hard work, determination, some talent but most of all, you have to love what you're doing...whatever that is.

If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]. Check out my website: www.feliciaoh.com. I'll be adding more to it including more pics, a blog with training tips, experiences, and general musings. Let me know if you are in or find yourself in the Southern California area. I'm available for private Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, submission grappling and Kettlebell lessons or stop in for any of my classes at Big John McCarthy's Ultimate Training Academy (www.bjmuta.com).

Thanks Zach!

ZE – Thank you Felicia! That was an ass kicking interview!

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