[Thursday, 23 October 1986]149 3495

2. Urgently re-examine its policies GErgislutiue Assemblu; on taxation, Government charges, Thursday, 23 October 1986 Government housing rentals, fuel levies and transport costs to lower their burden on these people. THE SPEAKER (Mr Barnett) took the Chair 3. Examine the increases in Shire at 10.45 anm., and read prayers. rates due to the introduction of the fringe benefits tax. PARLIAMENTARY SUPERANNUATION 4. Ensure that policies are FUND introduced to provide incentives, Appointment of Trustees not disincentives, for people to On motion by Mr Hodge (Minister for Con- live and work in these areas." servation and Land Management), resolved- Mr Speaker, this is a matter of public That, pursuant to the provisions of the interest and in my view is properly brought Parliamentary Superannuation Act 1970, forward within the Sessional Orders of the the Legislative Assembly hereby appoints House. the member for Dale, Mr Rushton, and the Yours sincerely, member for Perth, Mr Terry Burke, to be Richard Court ML.A. trustees of the parliamentary super- annuation fund as from this day. Eight members having risen in their places, The SPEAKER: I rule that the motion has SELECT COMMITEES: LEGAL FEES been correctly brought forward under the Standing Orders Committee Report Sessional Order and indicate that a half an hour will be allocated to each side of the House MR BURKETT (Scarborough) [10.48 am.): for the purpose of this debate. I present the report of the Standing Orders Committee on reimbursement of legal fees in- MR COURT (Nedlands) [10.52 aim]: I curred by witnesses before Select Committees move- and move- In view of the strike action taken That the report be received. this week by employees in the north of Question put and passed. this State and the disruption to com- munity services caused by this action, GOVERNMENT CHARGES the Government should: Northern Areas: Matter of Public Importance (1) take immediate action to relieve the hardship that Government induced THE SPEAKER: H-onourable members, I cost increases are causing employers have received today the following letter from and employees in both the public and the member for Nedlands- private sectors of this State's rural and In accordance with the relevant Sessional remote areas; Orders of the Legislative Assembly, I give notice that at the commencement of the (2) urgently re-examine its policies on sitting of the House today, Thursday taxation, Government charges, Government housing rentals, fuel October 23, 1986 1 wish to move the fol- a matter of public levies and transport costs to lower lowing Motion as their burden on these people; interest. (3) examine the "In view of the strike action taken increases in Shire rates this week by employees in the north of due to the introduction of the fringe this State and the disruption to com- benefits tax, and munity services caused by this action, (4) ensure that policies are introduced to the Government should: provide incentives, not disincentives, I . Take immediate action to relieve for people to live and work in these the hardship that Government areas. induced cost increases are causing During the last week we have witnessed an employers and employees. in both extraordinary event in which many public ser- the public and private sectors of vants in the north of this State went against this State's rural and remote their normal track record on industrial matters areas. and went on strike. 3496 3496[ASSEM BLY]

The Opposition does not condone the action have had enough. He certainly got out before these people took by going out on strike, par- they threw him out. ticularly as it caused considerable disruption to Mr Taylor: You would get two out of 10. the many community services provided by them. Mr COURT: The Minister for Health might make that sort of comment, but he should talk The important point we must examine-we to some of the Health Department of Western are asking the Government to accept this-is Australia employees who live in some of the that the concern which finally made these remote areas of the State and hear what they people take such action has been brewing for think about the cost pressures which they are some time. It simply highlights the fact that the now being asked to bear. Labor Government is completely out of touch With the recent action, the Government with the electorate. tried to divert attention to home in on one or Members opposite have shown during the two particular issues, but I think that Mr four years they have been in Government, that Meacham from the Trades and Labor Council they really have no empathy with the people of WA summed up the situation very well. living in the remote and rural areas to which I Mr Pearce: I do not think I would say that. have referred in my motion. They simply do not understand, or do not seem to want to Mr COURT: Is it not interesting that just know, the problems that these people are because Mr Meacham attacked the Deputy facing, particularly those problems which were Premier about the situation concerning sub- highlighted this week; that is, that Government marines, we hear this sort of response. employees living in the north of the State are I refer to an extract from a radio broadcast of living under quite different circumstances from 22 October in which Greg Newbold said- those under which they would live in the Rent increases, manning levels and long metropolitan area. service ]eave were issues which the Government employees in the north have to combined Union Council identified as live alongside employees engaged in the mining reasons for members of fourteen unions and gas industries and they compare their rela- going on strike last Thursday. tive situation with those of their next door Most of the unions involved are not neighbours. They have found themselves in a known for being strike happy. They tend to position where they can no longer stand back solve their problems by less controversial and do nothing about the situation. means. Mr Meacham said the cause of the unprecedented strike was likely to be I will concentrate on the situation existing in the Pilbara and the Kimberley. I believe that found in the host of increases in Govern- the Labor members representing ment taxes and charges earlier in the year, the north are the inability of the Government to bring simply not fighting for the well-being of their constituents and in the last four years the stan- prices down when fuel prices dropped, and dard of living of these people the general perception of the Burke has declined con- Government as one which siderably. favoured businesses ahead of workers. In all the criticism about previous Govern- Mr Meacham said that there had clearly ments, members opposite cannot criticise the been a build up of frustration over some Opposition's commitment to the north. time and its release in strike action was not Mr Peter Dowding: We certainly can. suprising. Mr COURT: One certainly cannot. Here we have one of the Labor Government supporters saying that the cost burdens these The situation has become untenable, not people can no ]onger bear are the result of a only for Government employees who have host of increases in Government taxes and been working under these new cost burdens, charges earlier this year and the inability of the but also for the many private sector employers Government to bring down prices when fuel and employees who are being pushed over the prices dropped. brink as a result of the cost increases. What are some of the cost burdens? Many The member for Mayfands no longer rep- have been mentioned and the member for resents the interests of the people in the north Pilbara, in her maiden speech, spoke about and if he were to go back to the north today the grocery prices. It is not just grocery pnices people there would tear him to pieces. They which concern the people of the north, it is a [Thursday, 23 October 19861 349739 combination of a number of different costs Government had the opportunity to relieve the which is cause for concern. The fringe benefits inflationary pressure of high fuel prices, the tax, in a multitude of ways, is having an effect effect of which was greater in remote and rural on this particular structure. I believe that it is areas. However, those Governments squan- the one single issue that will bring this Govern- dered that opportunity. I was in this Parlia- ment down;, it certainly will result in the ment when the Government introduced legis- Government losing members in the remote lation supposedly designed to lower petrol areas of the north. Both the State and Federal prices. What a farce that was! When the Governments have totally misread the situ- Government had a genuine opportunity to ation in connection with this tax. When this lower fuel prices when oil prices dropped quiie Government had the opportunity to do some- dramatically, it did not do anything. Instead, thing about the situation last year, it did absol- the Governments, State and Federal, increased utely nothing. taxes on fuel so that people in remote areas Belatedly the Government is now trying to continued to pay high fuel prices. get onto the bandwagon to change that tax to lessen its effects. Members of the Government No member on the Government side of the knew what that tax would do to people living in House could truthfully say that the Govern- the remote and rural areas, but did nothing. in ment has tried to relieve the fuel price situation fact, they went the other way and supported it. because when it was given a prime opportunity We are not speaking only of mining people in to lower fuel prices it squandered that oppor- the north. We are speaking of all the people tunity. Fuel prices have a dramatic effect on living there, including those operating small the cost structure under which people in re- businesses and those operating and servicing mote areas work. The point I make is that there the pastoral industry. has been a large increase in taxes and charges. I am sure that the member for Pilbara must be Mr Peter Dowding: When were you up there very concerned about what is taking place in last? that area because people in the Pilbara realise Mr COURT: I will get on to that point. I the problem and that could affect her political happen to spend a bit of time up there. I spend future. a bit more time up there than the Minister. Mr Peter Dowding: When were you last up The Minister has said that we must be joking there? when we talk about the increased cost pressures and their associated burden. Today the Con- Mr COURT: I was up there last about four sumer Price Index figures for the quarter from weeks ago. June to September 1986 were released. The Mr Peter Dowding: For how long? general inflation rate for the quarter was 3.4 Mr COURT: I spent a week there. Does the per cent in Western Australia and 2.6 per cent Minister want any more information? Australia-wide. Thus the inflation rate in West- ern Australia is running considerably ahead of We do not have the ability to travel exten- the Australian average. We hear now only sively through the north, but it is interesting silence from members opposite. The figures are that despite that, members of the Opposition broken up into two components: The contri- spend a lot of time in the north. The Leader of bution to the inflation rate made by the private the Opposition and the member for Gascoyne sector and that made by the Government se- are participating in the Northern Development tor. The private sector contribution to the in- Conference and will also meet different groups flation rate for the last quarter was 1.2 per cent of people who cannot get satisfaction from the compared with a State Government inflation Government. Those people are coming to the rate contribution of 5.1 per cent. That is an Opposition for help because they know that appalling record. There it is in black and white. when we represented that area we looked after This Government's increased taxes and charges their interests. The Minister for Industrial Re- have had a massive effect on inflation in this lations should be very sensitive about this, be- country. cause he would not be well-received if he went north now. Mr Tray: Are you going to give the figures The State and Federal Labor Governments over a wider term? had an unprecedented opportunity to lower fuel prices. When oil prices dropped quite dra- Mr COURT: We can talk about it on a year matically, this Government and the Federal to date basis, if that is what the Minister wants. 3498 3498ASSEMBLY)

According to the official figures, the State particular Minister. They are concerned that he Government charges which were increased in does not want to talk to them or to understand July contributed to the inflation rate five times their problems. The CPI figures that I cited are more than private sector price rises. The Minis- living proof that this Government's savage in- ter for Transport would he only ton well aware creases in taxes and charges are having a cruel of the effect that fuel prices are having. The effect on those people. figures that I just cited for the private sector The Government, even by selling off its inflation rate and the public sector inflation assets and changing its accounting procedures, rate did not include the State's fuel tax levies. cannot hide the fact that it is bungling the econ- As the Minister knows, the petrol tax which is omy. accounted for outside the Budget is adding something like $1 to $ 1.50 per tankful of pet- I think we should spare a thought for, and rol. The State fuel levy now accounts for 18 per not take too lightly, the problems facing people cent of a truck's running cost and six per cent tiving, operating, and investing in the rural and of the total cost of owning and operating a remote areas of this State. truck-a significant cost factor. I certainly do not support the recent occur- rences, but the actions taken highlight the fact When members opposite had the oppor- that these people appear to have nowhere to tunity to lower the price of fuel, to lower the turn. I gave a summary earlier with regard to cost burdens on people operating in remote the burdens building up to the point at which areas, they did not. Some very real problems these people will no longer accept the situation. affect the people in these remote areas. Some of those problems arise from taxation policies and I urge members opposite to appreciate the the fringe benefits tax. Members opposite will situation and support the motion today. rue the day that the fringe benefits tax was MR LIGHTFOOT (Murchison-Eyre) [11. 11 introduced, because the backlash will occur a.m.I: I second the motion and in doing so most in rural and remote areas. People in ze- would like to add my comments to those mote areas have problems with housing rentals. expressed by the member for Nedlands. It is not enough to compare house rentals in the There is no doubt that this Government and north with those in the metropolitan area. We the Federal Government are out of touch, must compare the relative costs of people who either by design or by accident, with the people live next door-somecone who gets water, in rural and outback areas, particularly those in power and other essentials subsidised by a Western Australia. mining company. Such people can see that their conditions are being eroded. People in Mr Peter Dowding: And how do your Gucci remote areas also have problems with increased suits go down in the outback? transport costs. The fringe benefits tax, even Mr LIGHTFOOT: The Minister would know indirectly, is affecting shire rates. Shires have all about Gucci suits, his Prime Minister tells to put up their rates so that they can cover their people to buy Australian goods and then buys a payments for the fringe benefits tax. suit in Hong Kong. What double standards! The Prime Minister does that, and his wholIly- Government members have spoken of the owned subsidiary in Western Australia, the need for incentives, particularly tax incentives Burke Government, probably does the same. to get people to live and work in the west, the north and the rural areas of the State. Although Mr Peter Dowding: And your Gucci boots. they have been given the opportunity to per- Mr LIGHTFOOT: I wear R. M. Williams' form, they have failed to do so. The Opposition boots and have done for most of my l ife. has no members representing electoral areas in The SPEAKER: Order! I can understand the the north, but it is interesting that, as I member's desire to answer the inteiections, mentioned earlier, the people in that area are but I am not convinced that it has a great deal now turning to the Opposition because they got to do with the motion. It would be better if we a far better deal from the Liberal members than kept to the motion. they are getting from Labor members. They are turning to the Liberal Party, the conservative Mr LIOHTFOOT: I accept, Mr Speaker, that party, to get help. The Minister for Industrial the interjection had nothing to do with the mo- Relations saw the writing on the wall and got tion and I will try to restrain myself. out in time. He came to Perth to grab a safe There is no doubt that the fuel prices that seat in this area. The newspapers report that this Government and the Federal Government people in the north are concerned about that have so savagely increased affect the people in [Thursday, 23 October 1986J]49 3499 the rural and outback areas much more than my electorate have few high schools and there people in the urban areas. Those fuel prices are no universities outside Perth in the whole bear on the vast distances we have to travel. one million square miles of WA, as a result of For example, witness the children who came to high taxing policies. We have no public Perth from the Central Reserve this week to transport outside Perth, or subsidised buses or visit this House; they travelled 2 000 kilo- trains. metres each way. The impost of the fuel tax on bringing those children to Perth is enormous Mr Peter Dowding: What about Bunbury? considering that 65c in every dollar spent on Mr LIGHTFOOT: Well, I am sorry about fuel goes to the State or Federal Government. Bunbury. It is a wicked tax. Mr Peter Dowding: Did the Liberal Party do Let us consider the fringe benefits tax that so anything for Bunbury? vitally affects people in the country. I wish to comment on the effects, some of them quite Mr LIGHTFOOT: 1 do not know; the Minis- ludicrous, which this tax has on the people in ter willI have to ask previous members. my electorate. For instance, station hands have Let us consider the issues. Let us consider the normally and traditionally for the last 100 effect of the Government's high taxing policies years been given store sheep and eggs by the on Leinster. Tax is the only thing that closed station; the cost of those items will now be Leinster, and that closure is one of the greatest subject to the fringe benefits tax. mining tragedies of the twentieth century. Let Mr D. L. Smith: And have otherwise been us look at the appalling announcement made underpaid. by the Premier when he said that Peko- Mr LIGHTFOOT: The member for Mitchell Wailsend was not welcome in Western would not know what hard work is. He has Australia. Let us look at the sale of the abattoir never had dirt under his fingernails. site at a fraction of its value, a sale which the people of Western Australia have to subsidise. It is certainly a sore point with members op- Let us look at purchasing at double its value, posite and manifest in those interiections is the Frenmantle Gas and Coke Co Ltd. They guilt-and so there should be guilt when they were all paid for with taxpayers' money, from consider what they have done to people in the the people who work hard and from the sweat country. A fringe benefits tax is now paid on of those in the bush and the country. sheep and eggs given as stores, it is paid on housing, which has traditionally been provided Let us consider the Prime Minister, and I free, on return fares to the city, and even on the quote from the South China Morning Post. electricity generated on the station and sup- Several members interjected. plied to the station hands' cottages, an exercise which cost no more than generating electricity Mr LIGHTFOOT: I will quote from this for the homestead. Fringe benefits tax will be newspaper if I can get a word in edgeways over paid on the water used by the employees in the the worried member for Welshpool. This is an cottages, on the furniture, and even on the indication of where the taxpayers' money goes tools. and I quote from this newspaper from Hong Mr D. L. Smith: There would not be very Kong- much paid on your guts. Spectacular enough perhaps to be able to Mr LIGHTFOOT: I do not know what the afford the suite of kings, the Mandarin member means by that comment; he is way Suite, a snip at just $9 750 a night! above me. It's this kind of luxury that is sought Mr Peter Dowding: Did you get your car after by the likes of the King of Tonga, made in Australia? Did you get your Range Queen Margarethe of Denmark, Prince Rover made in Australia? Rainier, Prince Bertil and Princess Lillian Several members interjected. of Sweden, ex-US presidents Nixon and Ford- Mr LIGHTFOOT: If the Minister had worked hard when he was a youth he would be And wait for it- able to drive an imported car too. -Australian Prime Minister Bob We suffer other imposts as a result of this Hawke, the Rockefellers and the high taxing Government. This Government has Rothschilds when they are in residence in paid no heed to decentralisation. The towns in Hongkong. 3500 3500[ASSEMBLY)

Little Bob is aver there spending up big at the Mr PETER DOWDING: The member's taxpayers' expense. This is a time for austerity problem is that he has taken arn interest in poli- and yet, while he was there, he bought a Hong tics only recently, so he would not know. In Kong suit too. The Minister talks about Gucci 1982 the procedure was to tr to achieve some suits and shoes, the fool! standardisation of rents across the board. This Several members interjected. would achieve equality in two areas. Mr LIGHTFOOT: If the Minister had A large number of Government workers do Worked as a youth instead of swanning around not receive Government housing. Even people he could have bought a car too. in the same job classifications do not necess- Several members interjected. arily have housing available to them. So one has a person receiving subsidised rent, while Mr LIGHTFOOT: I do not hide behind that, another person in the same job pays a different it came from hard work. rent, yet both are occupying Govern ment- Several members interjected. owned housing. A third person doing a similar living in State housing, and The SPEAKER: Order! I will make two job may be points: Firstly, another, also doing the same job, may live in I am not convinced that the private accommodation. Some people working member is debating the subject before the the SEC pay rents different from those paid House and I would like him to for come back to it; by prison officers and different again from and secondly, I am convinced that we are not those paid by people employed by the Water setting a very good example. Authority. Mr LIGHTFOOT: Thank you, Mr Speaker, I have a compulsion to answer those interjec- In 1982 the Government of the day set about lions that perhaps are not true. a rent standardisation programme in respect of which schoolteachers made an application to I will finish mny brief address to the House the commission and received a $6 per week this morning by saying very sincerely that the rent allowance, foreshadowing this move in people in the country are fed up and they have rents. When we came into power we felt-and I had enough. There are manifestations of their think quite rightly-that there had not been frustration everywhere in the bush, and it is adequate negotiation between the Government time it stopped. The taxation, the increase in and Government unions on that issue, so we housing rents, the FBT, and the fuel price taxes set about those negotiations. must be reviewed. The Government cannot alienate the people in the bush any lunger. A long period went by, and we agreed that MR PETER DOWDING (Maylands-Min- rents would not move du ring the period of the ister for Employment and Training) [11.20 negotiations. And they did not, apart from a $1.70 increase in 1985. After four years of a.m.]: The last member on his feet fails out of negotiation, we his said to the Government unions Jaguar into his Range Rover, drives to that we had modified Dalkeith where his local member, the member our position so com- pletely that it was necessary for us to proceed to for Nedlands, is desperately trying to help him, and his R. M. Williams boots are his only implement it. Australian-made components. It was at that point that the Civil Service I would like to address the subject before the Association and a number of other unions ac- Chair, if I may. I realise that that is a bit of a cepted that the Government had modified its departure from procedure today, but the mem- position tremendously. We had modified our ber for Mt Lawley is having an attack of some- position to ensure that no existing tenant thing. The issue raised by the member for would be disadvantaged because the increases Nedlands is the most rank hypocrisy one can would be by $6 each year until 1990-that is imagine. Either that, or he has done absolutely hardly disadvantaging people-together with no research before bringing his motion before an applicable CPI movement to keep the whole the House. thing on target. In respect of new tenants, they would come into those houses and pay the full The situation is that in 1982 the then Liberal GElRA rent, and the full GEHA rent for 1987 Government set about a programme of would be the present GEHA rent adjusted by standardising rents amongst Government the CPI rate since the last increase. In fact, for workers in GEHA and instrumentality accom- standard housing the rent would be $58.70 for modation. a house which, in many cases, would have cost Mr Lightfoot interjected. $ 100 000 to build. [Thursday, 23 October 1986])50 3501

An increase from $45.70 to $ 58.70 is not a the Liberal Party ever did. The people in the massive one. What concerns me most of all is north had no air-conditioning. If they had three that so much misinformation has been peddled bedrooms they had no third air-conditioner. I around about this issue. Those few workers- agitated very strongly for that system to be and it was not universal in the north; a core of rectified, and we did rectify it. We are in the people in Port Hedland and some other places process now of implementing that. It is a very were involved, but it did not affect the services important benefit. except in schools-were told at a number of meetings that rents would double. The second element of the package which we have offered the people in the north to try to That is frankly untrue. Furthermore, they improve their situation is that we have were told that the substandard accommodation undertaken a review of every single GEHA and rents would double. Last night I saw a tele- instrumentality house to determine whether vision clip-it was from a Channel 7 pro- the rent ought to be fixed for standard housing, gramme of the previous night-in which one of or whether there should be a discounted rent. these people involved in organising this dispu- tation pointed to a house and said, "The rent of Like the house shown on television in the this house will double." clip I mentioned, the rent will be significantly I was able to get GERIA to check the rent of discounted because it is substandard. It was that house and I was told, "Yes, the rent will go substandard because it was built during the up next year by$$1.40. " Liberal Administration. That is what is wrong with it. I ask the Opposition this question: Leaving politics aside, or accepting politics, members Mr MacKinnon: Blame the previous Govern- opposite do not like to admit this whole pro- ment. cess started off with their determination in 1982. Are they seriously saying to the public of Mr PETER DOWDING: One can blame Western Australia that people are being anything. My kids watched Alice in Wonder- disadvantaged if they are being supplied with land the other evening. I remember seeing it accommodation, which is air-conditioned and when I was a kid. It is so typical of the Oppo- fumnished, for $58.70 a week? It does not be- sition. hove members on the other side of the House The Queen is running around screaming to encourage the view that that is unfair. Bear "Off with his head, off with his head", which in mind State Housing Commission tenants are sounds very much like the Deputy Leader of paying more than that for unair-conditioned the Opposition who runs around saying those and unfurnished accommodation. sorts of things. Then there is the Cheshire cat, We would all like free housing. That is an who sits over there and talks about health oc- objective I can imagine some people opposite casionally. He smiles a lot in the film and mem- would enjoy. I have never seen such a greedy bers can work out who that is meant to be. A lot as those opposite. They would like anything whole range of people in Alice in Wonderland for nothing. I would like to know, if the mem- are representative of the Opposition. There are ber for Murchison-Eyre will tell us, who paid people who just cannot tell the truth, and I for his hotel bills and drinks when he was must say that the member for Nedlands looks tripping through South Africa and Nambia, or awfully like some of those characters. whether he is claiming those as a tax deduction. Talk about foot in mouth! Members opposite In any event, let us look at the realities. It is made a huge mistake before the last election by not only that this is a cost to society; it is a letting it slip, accidentally I think, that they subsidy of $13 million a year by which the planned to abolish Stateships. What they saw taxpayer of Western Australia is subsidising the was $17 million. Would they not be able to do GERA system. Furthermore, it is inhibi ting the a lot of politicking with $ 17 million? They saw ability of the Government in straitened times S 17 million-worth of pork-barrelling. But it to make those additional payments. backfired on them because the people of the The question of Government rents and the north knew the State Government was doing outrage which is apparently the result of misin- everything it could to make Stateships more formation and lack of information about the efficient and to make sure there was a supply north is something that one has to deal with. line out of Wyndham for the produce of the The Government values the workers in the regenerated and reinvigorated Ord as a result north. We have done ear more for them than of the policies of our Government. 3502 3502[ASSEMBLY]

Make no mistake-when the Leader of the 50 per cent in the number of Homeswest Opposition went to Kununurra, do members houses built. When I was in Opposition in know how many people wanted to meet him? 1980, in towns such as Broome, Port Hedland, Seven! That was the best he could do, and the Karratha, Kununurra, Derby, Marble Bar, and new President of the Liberal Party was not Onslow, hundreds of people were unhoused even prepared to go up there to meet the people and on the waiting list, living in the most de- although he said he would. plorable conditions, because the Liberal Let us look at what sort of commitment to Government was not prepared to spend money the north there is from the Liberal Party. In all on an adequate housing programme. Our Min- areas-roads, housing, energy, resources, infor- ister for Housing, the member for Nollamara, mation, and communications-the State and is to be absolutely applauded for the work he Federal Governments have an enviable and has done in that area. 1 must say that the unbeatable record. We have seen a huge meta- people in the north agree with me. morphosis in hospitals alone since I have been Several members interjected. involved in the north. Since the time I went Mr PETER DOWDING: The member for there in 1976, the Liberal Government let Murchison-Eyre has a new-found interest in those facilities run down dreadfully and it has Aboriginal affairs. After having gone around meant the Labor Party has had to implement a telling the Aboriginal people that they are too huge building programme. stupid to vote-which is really what his party Mr Court interjected. was saying throughout the ] 970s-he has a new-found interest in the welfare of Aboriginal Mr PETER DOWDING: After a week in the people. north, the member for Nedlands thinks he is an expert. When he was a young bloke he had a Point of Order Summer vacation job up there and reckons he is an expert on it. It is not true. He should see Mr LIGHTFOOT: Mr Speaker, I cannot re- the changes to the Broome and Port Hedland call ever going around telling Aboriginal people hospitals. What a stupid decision the Liberals or anyone else that they are too stupid to vote. made when in office, not to build the new Port It is untrue and I ask the member to withdraw Hedland Hospital. They rejected that de- that remark. cision-they wanted to patch it up after the A Government member: What about the cyclone and not spend the money that it Press release? needed; as a result of that there is such a huge Mr Peter Dowding: You said that they investment that no-one can afford to shift it. If should not have the vote. the member for Nedlands really knew what he Mr Pearce: Didn't you think you mum was in was talking about he would know that in every the same position? single town in the north hospital facilities have been enhanced dramatically, as have the num- The SPEAKER: I am most reluctant to pur- ber of roads attended to. sue this point. There is a Standing Order which says that if you find something offensive you In 1974 the member for Nedlands' father can ask for it to be withdrawn. But if you do told a lie at an electoral meeting at Paraburdoo. that and if, when I sit down, you ask me to He promised that if the Liberals were elected in pursue it on that basis, I will seek to have the 1974 there would be black-top roads between matter withdrawn; but we will end up with a every minor town on the coast; yet it has been farcical situation where anything a member left to the Labor Government to get that pro- objects to will have to be withdrawn and there gramme off and running. will be very little left in the Hansarddebates. Several members interjected. Mr LIGHTFOOT: If Hansard will record Mr PETER DOWDING: The member was that I said that that statement by the Minister too busy to know what was happening up there. was untrue, I will be satisfied. The fact is, there is absolutely no measure one can apply to the north and not demonstrate Debate Resumed that the Labor Governent has improved dra- Mr PETER DOWDING: What the member matically on the performance of the Liberal will be unable to deny is that he certainly said Government. If it were only in the area of that people without wealth or property should house-building, one would be able to demon- not have the vote, and he certainly implied strate quite clearly that under a Labor Govern- from his utterances that Aboriginal people in ment there has been an increase in the order of particular should not have the vote because [Thursday, 23 October 19861 350350 they could not understand what was Debate Resumed happening; and that was the position on which Mr PETER DOWDING: I wind up by saying his party ran in the infamous circumstances of that Mr Lightfoot said, "Well yes, I said that, the 1977 election. But his new-found interest in and I stand by what I say". Aboriginal people is extraordinary, having re- gard to the fact that for the last nine years of In relation to the Government's economic performance, which was attacked by the mem- Liberal Government almost no housing was important. built for Aboriginal people outside the urban ber for Nedlands, two indicators are situation, and none was built at the expense of It is not simply an indicator of a month by the State Government. In fact, since 1983 there month or quarter by quarter statistic, but the has been a huge building programme through- issue of growth. On the issue of growth the Western Australian Government stands high out the north and other places. There is a huge with the best of all Governments in Australia amount still to be done, but let there be no with the growth of employment, welfare, build- mistake: Amongst the Aboriginal communities there can be no thanks to the member for ing, and housing approvals, since prior to the demise of the Liberal Government. Murchison-Eyre or his political party for the tremendous initiative of Labor Governments, In Western Australia the strike statistics in both Federal and State. 1986 for the 12 months to 30 June showed 108 900 days lost. Compare that with the Lib- An Opposition member: What about eral Party's performance in 1980, bearing in Warburton? mind the significant population growth since Mr PETER DOWDING: That is a good 1980 and the very substantial growth in example. The Warburton community has been enterprise and industrial activity. In 1980 that without houses for year after year of Liberal figure was 2 10 000 days lost-nearly double. Governments, State and Federal, and those Mr Grayden interjected. people have been desperate. The housing that Mr PETER DOWDING: I would not blame has been provided and increased has been the member for South Perth, who was probably provided by Labor Governments, and Labor Minister for Labour and Industry in those days. Governments alone. In any event, what we have to blame is (he sort I will read a short transcript of a report of Mr of policies we are seeing emerge once again. We Sattler and Mr Lightfoot speaking on radio on are seeing the same attitudes emerge in the Lib- 4 June 1986 at 10. 10 a.m.- eral Party as those that caused the strike stat- istics in 1980. It is the New Right and the SA'ITLER: . .. but you're quoted as say- Rambo style of political activity, the exponents ing that businessmen, and big businessmen of which are now emerging in the Liberal Party of the ilk of Robert Holmes a Court should seeking to challenge the Leader of the Oppo- have a louder voice than the uneducated sition. members of society. You're quoted as say- Several members interjected. ing, you can't tell me that every man's vote is equal is nonsense. How can you say the Mr PETER DOWDING: They are wimps. vote of an illiterate bloke in the desert is They can give it, but they cannot take it. It is equal to Robert Holmes a Court's? Did extraordinary. We have a situation where the you say that? right-wing economic and political philosophies that were the downfall of the Liberal Party in -Did the member say that? 1980 and caused that huge level of industrial disruption are once again emerging as factors Mr Lightfoot: I don't recall. in the conservative party. Mr Peter Dowding: He does not even re- The northern members of Parliament are member what he says. He is like the member doing a fantastic job for their membership- for Mt Lawley. He has the same disease. the member for Pilbara, Tom Stephens, Tom Helm, and the Minister for Water Resources- Point of Order and despite the handicaps that the Liberal Party imposed on the electorate of Kimberley Mr MACKINNON: It would seem that a which, as the Liberal Party member, Bill With- transcript of a radio station programme has ers, said when he resigned in protest, was the little, if anything, to do with the motion before worst gerrymander in the western world. De- the House, I would ask that you, Sir, bring the spite that,' the Minister for Water Resources is Minister back to the motion before the House. regarded by all as the best member the 3504 3504[ASSEMBLY]

Kimberley has ever had. I refer to the member Mr COWAN: Of course it does. There is no for Pilbara whom the Liberal Party tried to question that the Government in many re- stymie by causing her to be dismissed from her spects is going to bear the brunt of the taxes job-because she intended to enter politics-to and tharges increases which it introduced in stop her having an income during a period July. Of course it is. The CPI figures, as the when an election had not even been declared member for Nedlands indicated, show what ef- and she had not been nominated. And yet, that fect that has had. The Government will have to tough lady won that election. She is the best wear that and I am sure it will. It must under- member that the Pilbara has ever had. stand the tide is turning against the Govern- ment here and in Canberra. Mr Cash: Where is she? The National Party is very strongly in favour Mr PETER DOWDING: All I can say in and supportive of autonomy of local govern- answer to the member for M1 Lawley is that the ment. It would not support any action which member for Pilbara spends a lot more time in would examine the activities of local this Chamber than he does, with one important authorities, yet here we have a point in this difference. Not only does she listen, but she motion which does that. The National Party is takes note of what is said. It would well-behove quite prepared to support motions of public the member for Mt Lawley to follow suit. The interest provided they are well worded and are truth is that the north is very well- represented not confusing. This motion is not well worded. by its members. It is terribly confusing in as much as it con- The events of the north over the last few days dones the one action for which the Govern- are the result of misinformation and misunder- ment should be commended; that is, putting standing. The position is a product of some- some rationality into housing rental rates. The thing that was commenced by the Liberal Party National Party is certainly not prepared to sup- in 1982, and the member for Nedlands, who port a motion which accepts that strike action has made a couple of fleeting visits to the north can be condoned. since he was a student on vacation, is so out of The National Party is very much opposed to touch with the changes in that community that this and says to the Liberal Party that if it he clearly does not know that the north has wants our support it is going to have to do a lot benefited from four years of Labor Govern- better than this. ment. MR PEARCE (Ar-madale-Leader of the I oppose the motion. House) (t11.49 ant.]: The Government is motivated in this and in all other things that it MR COWAN (Merredin-Leader of the is facing up to, in times of economic difficulty, National Party) 111.46 a.m.]: The National by a belief in notions of fairness. Party would like to make very clear its position in relation to this motion of public interest. There is a belief that each section of the com- munity There is no question-and it does not matter needs to carry the burden equally, and which way we look at this motion-that it gives those who have been unduly advantaged in the past must accept that in these tighter times, credence to strike action taken by people in the that level north. of advantage may have to be redressed in the interests of those who have Under no circumstances would the National had a lesser level of advantage. Party ever condone strike action in any way, That is very much the case in the north-west shape, or form. What can be said about this in regard to housing rentals. I have taken a motion is that it is actually condemning the particular interest in the housing rental situ- Government in the one area where it should be ation in the north because I went up there a commended, in that it has taken a very firm year ago to prevent a strike over the question of stand in relation to housing rental. a third air-conditioner in Government Em- I want to place on record that the National ployees Housing Authority housing in the Port Party supports the Government in that action Hedland, Pilbara, and Kimberley regions. and under no circumstances will it become Teachers up there wanted a third air-condition- involved in motions of public interest which ing unit in those houses. The Government condone strike action. looked at the situation and felt that was a fair request, and so at great expense the additional Mr MacKinnon: The motion dues not con- units were put into those houses. Rentals were done strike action. not put up to accommodate that extra expense, [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 303505 but now we are seeking to bring rentals for Government is taking to reduce Government those houses into line with movements which expenditure, the Liberals flock around their have happened everywhere else in the con- heels encouraging them in their strike. They sumer price index. might say they do not really condone strikes In looking at rental increases the Govern- but in fact- ment is asking, "Who are those who had a big Mr Court: What rubbish! The first thing I advantage in the past?" In this case, it is said this morning was that we do not condone Government employees in the north and else- strike action. where, who basically have not had a rise in four years. Is it fair to put the rental-rise load onto Mr PEARCE: The second thing the member every person, whether he had had a rise in the for Nedlands should have said was, "We are in past or not, or is it fairer to aim more heavily at favour of reductions in Government expendi- those people who have enjoyed no rises in the ture. It just so happens in this case we are past? The simple answer of the Government is opposed to the reduction in Government ex- that under those circumstances it is fairer to penditure and therefore we are not really increase the rents in line with the CPI increases opposing the people going on strike about it." for the last four years for those people who had not had increases rather than to further in- There are the two faces of Liberalism in this crease the rents of those people who have. That matter. Although I understand the political tac- has been the motivation of the Government in tics involved-that is, get disaffected groups, all of these areas where it is asking people to make sympathetic noises and, if one is the bear a greater level of the economic burden Deputy Leader of the Opposition, go out and that we must all face up to in these times. talk to TAFE teachers outside Parliament and t ry to suggest some syminpathy for themr i n terms In winding up this debate, I would like to of supporting their work practices which are point to the very strange double attitude of the some of the most restrictive in the country- Liberal Opposition. I exempt the National for a party that basically says- Party from that because I think its approach to this has been a very principled one, but the Mr Cowan: The hours of contact time you Liberal Opposition has two faces which it quoted in the House last night may be incor- presents depending on the circumstances. The rect. first face is the general cry of, "Let's reduce Government expenditure", and there would Mr PEARCE: I do not want to get into that. not be a member opposite who does not trum- If the Government has got the hours of work pet that around the place umpteen times per wrong from departmental advice-and that is week, particularly in his own constituency. If taken from pay slips, I might add, so we are there were an economic flag that the Oppo- paying out the money for the hours of work sition flew for the last two years, it would have that I have referred to-and if it is the case that been "Reduce Government expenditure." some TA FE teache rs are argui ng that t hey have already cleared 22 hours a week, then they have Mr Bradshaw: Do you agree with that? no problem because the Government will not Mr PEARCE: This Government is doing it, raise them above 22 hours a week. There will not merely talking about doing it. However, be no change in their circumstances and I do every time this Government seeks to do that, not know why they are striking. there will be a motion in this House deploring However, what I am saying about this is: The the reduction of Government expenditure in Liberals always will be around those sorts of that area. That is precisely what is happening groups-special interest groups which have here with regard to rentals. The Government is been advantaged in the past-trying to pick up seeking to reduce Government outlays in a vote while saying generally to the public, "We subsidising housing across the State for don't condone or support these kinds of prac- Government employees-a reduction in tices." The Liberal Party might pick up the odd Government expenditure. But the people who vote with a disaffected interest group, but it are in support of reduced Government expen- will do so at the expense of its own credibility diture in principle are opposed to it in practice. because one cannot make those kinds of Again, if there were a second principle that statemnents to Specific groups without it becom- the Liberals would emblazon on their flag, it is ing known to the general groups that in fact the this, "No strikes." Yet every time people move principles that one espouses are not the prin- to strike now over some action which the ciples that one puts into practice. 3506 3506[ASSEMBLY]

I suppose the Liberal Party is the ultimate Question put and a division taken with the party of pragmatism in that it almost never following result- supports its own principles and almost never Ayes 13 puts into practice in Government the things it Mr Blaikie Mr MacKinnon says it will do when in Opposition. This is a Mr Bradshaw Mr tvensaros classic example. Perhaps the last principle of Mr Cash Mr Rushton Mr Court Mr Thompson Liberalism-and of the Opposition's perform- Mr Grayden Mr Watt ance-which has been evidenced in this debate Mr Lewis Mr Williams is that the action which went on in the north Mr Lightfoot ratlur) had to be complete, that is, over, before the Noes 31 Liberal Party itself got around to taking action Mrs Beggs Mr Marlborough about the matter. Mr Bertram Mr Nalder Mr Bryce Mr Pearce Mr Terry Burke Mr Read MR MacKINNON (Murdoch-Deputy Mr Burkett Mr Schell Leader of the Opposition) [ 11.58 a.m.J: Let me Mr Carr Mr D. L. Smith Mr Cowan Mr P. J1.Smith conclude the debate by saying four things: Mr Peter Dowding Mr Stephens Mr Evans Mr Taylor Dr Gallop Mr Tonkin Firstly, the Liberal Party opposes the strike Mr Grill Mr Trenorden action taken by public servants in the north Mrs Henderson Mr Troy and will continue to do so whether in Govern- Mr Hodge Mrs Watkins ment or in Opposition. Secondly, the Liberal Mr House Dr Watson M r Tom Jones Mrs Buchanan Party supports the controlling of Government Dr Lawrence tTeller) expenditure but it does not support Govern- ment tax and Pairs charge increases when they are Ayes Noes totally unnecessary. We see today that the CPI Mr Clarko Mr Brian Burke figures reveal that Western Australia is showing Mr Hassell Mr Bridge Australia how-showing Australia how to lead Mr Crane Mr Thomas Mr Tubby Mr Gordon HillI the country in Government-induced inflation. Mr Laurance Mr Wilson Thirdly, the Liberal Party makes no apology- Mr Spriggs Mr-Parker and will never make an apology-for com- munic-ating, with disaffeced groups in the com- Question thus negatived. munity. Whether it be in Government or in Opposition, the Liberal Party will continue to AMERICA'S CUP YACHT RACE (SHOPPING flOURS) BILL talk to TAFE teachers, to public servants or to any other group which might be unhappy at the Returned time with Government or Opposition stances. Bill returned from the Council without The Liberal Party makes no apology for that; it amendment. will continue to do so. Finally, the Liberal Party will also continue to stand by its prin- PAY-ROLL TAX ASSESSMENT ciples and its policies, whether in Government AMENDMENT BILL (No. 3) or in Opposition-unlike our opponents. Second Reading MR PEARCE (Armadale-Leader of the The motion before the House in no way sup- House) [12.03 p.m.]: On behalf of the ports the strike action but draws to the atten- Treasurer, I move- tion of the House the fact that people in some parts of Western Australia have felt so disaf- That the Bill be now read a second time. fected by the Government's actions and poli- The Bill provides relief from payroll tax for cies, they have taken that ultimate decision. I State Government departments where the pay- remind members that they are not the New ment of payroll tax is essentially a transfer of Right; they are not an extreme left-wing group; funds with no net impact on Consolidated Rev- they are not an extreme right-wing group-they enue. It is proposed that these departments in are concerned Western Australians who are suf- future be exempt from payroll tax. fering very greatly under the imposts imposed The exemption will end the current practice upon them by this Government. of departments, whose expenditure is often fully funded from Consolidated Revenue, being I urge the members of this House to support required to return some of these funds to the motion. Consolidated Revenue as a payroll tax pay- [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 303507 ment. The exemption will improve adminis- a greater financial burden on road trative efficiency by eliminating the need for transport operators, particularly owner- departments, designated as exempt, to calcu- driver operators who are less able to ab- late their tax liability and provide monthly re- sorb the higher insurance costs and liab- turns, and for the State Taxation Department ility exposure. to monitor payment. On the advice of the Crown Solicitor and with The departments proposed to be exempted the support of the industry, the Bill also pro- are generally those established under the Public poses to amend section 26 retrospectively to Service Act rather than under separate legis- the effect that it "has only applied" to death lation. Departments or agencies which operate and bodily injury claims. A case for as business undertakings or compete with the retrospectivity is always difficult to judge. private sector will remain liable for the tax and However, if the proposed amendment was not will not therefore receive any advantage over retrospective, the door would be open to a few their competitors. people who might seek to have declared void The exemptions are listed in the Bill. otherwise "~normal" contracts entered into in the past six years, six years being the statutory To cater for new departments and future re- period within which legal proceedings for organisations, provision has been made for ad- breach of contract must be sought. This would ditions or deletions to be effected by regu- leave open to litigation people who were acting lation. The exemption is to be backdated to in good faith and who may not have adequate I June 1986 to enable it to be effective for the insurance arrangements. Retrospectivity would whole of 1986-87. remove this potentially unjust situation. 1 commend the Bill to the House. I commend the Bill to the House. Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Court. Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Court. MOTOR VEHICLE (THIRD PARTY FORREST PLACE AND CITY STATION INSURANCE) AMENDMENT BILL DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT BILL Second Reading Second Reading MR PEARCE (Armadale-Leader of the MR PEARCE (Armadale-Minister for House) [12.05 p.m.]: On behalf of the Planning) [12.07 p.m.]: I move- Treasurer, I move- That the Bill be now read a second timne. That the Bill be now read a second time. The purpose of this Bill is threefold. Firstly, it This Bill retrospectively amends section 26 of corrects a minor error in the principal Act. Sec- the Motor Vehicle (Third Party Insurance) Act ondly, it ensures that not only the parties who 1943 to limit the operation of section 26 to have signed the development plan agreement, death and bodily injury claims. but also any future owners of the land that is The need for the amendment to the Act the subject of that agreement, will be bound by arises because of the uncertainty generated by a its terms. decision of the High Court handed down in The rights and obligations in the terms of the August 1985. The High Court decision con- development plan agreement include various sidered South Australian legislation equivalent rights of access to the land and various obli- to section 26 and decided that the section gations to maintain public access through the precludes carriers from contracting out of liab- land, such as City Arcade and the Carrillon. ility for claims relating to property damage or The State has an obligation to retransfer to the loss which resulted from negligence in driving a owners of the Boans' land and north-west cor- motor vehicle. ner site any parts of that land which the State is Section 26 of the Western Australian legis- to be given, if at any time those pieces of land lation has previously been thought only to ap- are not required for the purposes of the devel- ply to contracts which restricted liability for opment. There is also an obligation for all personal injury. On the evidence presented to buildings to be maintained. the Government, the High Court decision has a Thirdly, this Bill directs the Registrar of number of consequences for the road transport Titles to endorse a suitable memorandum on industry including- the certificates of title for the land involved so A potential increase in road freight costs that any future owners will become aware of because of the necessary adjustments in the rights and obligations attaching to that land carriers' insurance arrangements; and under the provisions of the development plan 3508 350$[ASSEMBLY] agreement. This agreement, by virtue of the Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr provisions of the Forrest Place and City Station Rushton. Development Act 1985, must be published in the Gazette and tabled in Parliament. ACTS AMENDMENT (RECORDING OF I commend the Bill to the House. DEPOSITIONS) BILL Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Second Reading Williams. MR PETER DOWDING (Maylands-Min- ister for Employment and Training) [12.10 FRIENDLY SOCIETIES AMENDMENT p.m.]: I move- DILL Second Reading That the Bill be now read a second time. MR PEARCE (Armadale-Leader of the The Coroners Act currently provides that evi- House) [12.08 p.m.): I move- dence given at an inquest shall be reduced to Thai the Bill be now read a second time. writing, then read over to, and signed by, the witness giving the evidence, and then signed by In 2983 the Friendly Societies Act, 1894 was the coroner. The Justices Act makes similar amended whereby the limit of the gross assur- provision for the writing and signing of evi- ance sum to be held by a society from any one dence in committal proceedings. person was increased from $6 000 to $25 000. This increase was made as a means of arresting This procedure is cumbersome and wastes the flow of funds via single Premium assurance the time of witnesses and courts. In some pro- schemes to other States, and in particular to ceedings, witnesses who have spent some time Victoria, where this product is being marketed giving evidence have had to return to the court successfully. when a typed record of their evidence has been prepared and have spent considerable ad- Western Australian friendly societies are ditional time having that evidence read over presently holding in excess of $12 million from and confirmed. this source, but with the H-BF friendly society offering single premium assurance and the re- In smaller centres where evidence is not tape- cently registered Home Owners Friendly So- recorded, magistrates take evidence in long- ciety intending to market this product, an in- hand, or depositions are produced by a court crease in the limit is requested. typist. In these cases, it is necessary that In line with present-day legislation the limit witnesses read the record of their evidence and sought is to be determined by prescription be satisfied that it is accurate. Where evidence upon recommendation of the registrar and with is tape-recorded, as it is in the Central Law approval of the Treasurer, subject to the satis- Courts, a verbatim transcript can be produced faction of prudential and procedural safe- and the present procedure is quite unnecessary- guards. New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland Current limits applicable in other States are: have provisions dispensing with signed depo- New South Wales $100000; Victoria and sitions where a certified verbatim transcript is South Australia $50 000; and Queensland available. $20000. The Bill proposes to allow evidence before The Friendly Societies Council of WA fully coroners and in committal proceedings to be supports the increase. either reduced to writing, as at present, or The traditional welfare services originally recorded by means of sound recording equip- offered by the friendly societies are now menit. In the former case, it will be read back operated through various Government depart- and signed as at present. In the latter case, the *ments at both State and Federal level. There- recording, when transcribed, will be certified fore, to retain acceptable membership levels, correct either by the person who prepares the there is a need for them to provide other ser- transcript or by a person authorised to check vices such as tax-advantaged single premium the transcript against the original recording. assurance. A number of safeguards to ensure the accu- When compared with the benefits offered in racy of the recording are proposed by the Bill- the Eastern States a more realistic figure will be regulations may be made for the ap- necessary to allow the WA societies to remain pointment of persons to record, transcribe, competitive. and check depositions, and for the pre- I commend the Bill to the House. scribing appropriate oaths or statutory [Thursday, 23 October 1986])50 3509

declarations with respect to the accuracy of oners". Proposed sections 5, IOA, and 18 pro- the transcript; vide for their transfer to another State or Terri- regulations may also provide for the cus- tory. Since a transfer order under the State's tody and destruction of the recordings and legislation has effect only to the extent that a transcript; and, prisoner is a State prisoner, a corresponding order under the Commonwealth legislation is offences in respect of falsification of necessary. This is provided for in proposed sec- recordings and transcript are proposed, tions 6,' 14A, and 18 by specifying that with penalties of $5 000 or two years' im- the State order will not have effect unless and until pri son ment. a corresponding order under Commonwealth In addition, no recording deposition may be legislation is obtained. used in evidence in any proceeding without The second matter is the transfer of State further proof if it is proved that the transcriptI prisoners to another State or Territory for the is not a correct transcription of the recording. purpose of standing trial for Commonwealth A further streamlining of committal proceed- offences. This is dealt with in clause 9, which ings is proposed by the amendment of the proposes amendments to section 10 of the Act. present requirement in section 73 of the Jus- The Bill is a product of deliberations of the tices Act that depositions at committal be read Standing to the defendant. Instead, they will be required Committee of Attorneys General. to be read only if any party requests the read- Each State proposes to enact similar amend- ing. In practice, typed copies of such depo- ments to its own legislation. There will then be sitions have usually been served on the defend- in place a scheme for the interstate transfer of ant, so the reading aloud in court is both time all prisoners regardless of whether they are consuming and unnecessary. sentenced under State law, Federal law, or I commend the Bill to the House. both. I commend the Bill to the House. Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Mensaros. Debate adjourned, on motion by Mr Cash. PRISONERS (INTERSTATE TRANSFER) ACTS AMENDMENT (ELECTORAL AMENDMENT BILL REFORM) BILL Second Reading Recommittal MR PETER DOWDING (Maylands-Min- Bill recommitted, on motion by Mr Bryce ister for Employment and Training) [12.13 (Minister for Parliamentary and Electoral P.M.]: I move- Reform), for further consideration. That the Bill be now read a second time. In Committee During 1984, legislation substantially similar The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Mrs to this State's Prisoners (Interstate Transfer) Henderson) in the Chair; Mr Bryce (Minister Act 1983 was proclaimed in all States to pro- for Parliamentary and Electoral Reform) in vide a scheme for the interstate transfer of pris- charge of the Hill. onters. Clauses This scheme is now operating, and provides I to 15 put and passed. that a prisoner may be transferred to a prison Clause 16: Schedule V amended- in another State either for his own welfare or Mr BRYCE: When this Bill was debated last for the purpose of standing trial for an offence week, I gave assurances to the members for alleged to have been committed within that Floreat and Stirling that I would take their other State. In each case the appropriate Minis- proposed amendments to Cabinet. I took a ters of both States must consent to the transfer. comprehensive report on the Committee stage On I August 1984, Commonwealth legis- to Cabinet, including recommendations which lation came into operation to extend the reflected exactly what I had said in the scheme to Commonwealth offenders held in Chamber. I indicated to Cabinet that it could State prisons. The Bill proposes to supplement concur with some amendments proposed by the scheme in two respects. The first is the the Opposition, but that there were other mat- transfer of prisoners who are serving a combi- ters of principle which could not be agreed to. nation of sentences for offences against both From memory there are now five or six State and Commonwealth laws. These pris- amendments appearing on the Notice Paper in oners are referred to in the Bill as "joint pris- the name of the member for Floreat. I will 3510 3510[ASSEMBSLY] move them. I have had the wording of this commissioner, in which case he has the same amendment checked and it is correct to say "or power and responsibility as the commissioner. Deputy Electoral Commissioner." The amend- In order to save time I will mention now that ment will ensure that the splendid indepen- the Government has explained that both it and dence to be enjoyed by the Electoral Com- the Opposition might have overlooked the fact missioner will also be enjoyed by the Deputy that the Interpretation Act specifies that the Electoral Commissioner. Cabinet agreed with word "judge" means a Supreme Court judge. that proposal. That is the reason the Government has not The clause talks about the Chief Justice or proposed amendments pertaining to the the other judges of the Supreme Court. If one proposition put forward by the Opposition and follows it through he will see that that is how it accepted by the Government that in the case of is expressed. The draftsman has checked it and the Chief Justice being substituted by another the reason it has been presented to the Com- judge, that judge should be a Supreme Court mittee in this form is simply so that it will be judge. I have checked the Interpretation Act consistent with the wording of the schedule. I and a provision is contained therein which am assured by him, and when I read it in that states that a "judge" means a judge of the Su- context I tend to agree with him, that it does preme Court. mean in respect of the Electoral Commissioner It is quite a different question about whether and the Deputy Electoral Commissioner. They the Provision of the Interpretation Act should fit together in that schedule in precisely that or should not remain. Since that legislation was way. enacted, which was a long time ago, the District We have a series of small consequential Court, the Federal Court, and the Family Court amendments which will enshrine the principle have come into existence. Therefore, some con- in the new Act that the Electoral Commissioner fusion may be created. The fact remains that shall be a person who enjoys complete indepen- the Interpretation Act provides for this, and the dence in the context of the normal Public Ser- Opposition's aim was achieved by the wording vice, and so too will his deputy- of the Bill wherein it states that a "judge" must be appointed as a deputy to the Chief Justice. Mr MENSAROS: I appreciate the courtesy of the Minister for In other words, the policy of the Liberal Parliamentary and Electoral Party, albeit on some Reform in submitting the amendments, which interpretation of the ori- were originally under my name and which his ginal wording of the Bill, has been maintained Government accepted. and it does not incur the opposition of the The original amend- Government. I support the proposed amend- ments were moved by me. However, it is more ment. appropriate for the Minister to move the amendments because of the Opposition's Mr BRYCE: I move an amendment- stance which has been explained sufficiently Page 7, line 20-To insert after during the previous Committee debate, that "Comm issioner"~ the following- unless we can agree on the more important or Deputy Electoral Commissioners matters, we will not vote for the Bill in toto. Amendment put and passed. However, the Opposition supports the inten- Clause, as amended, put and passed. tion of the amendments, and in this case the changing of the word "and" to the word "or". I Clauses 17 to 20 put and passed. accept the Minister's explanation. Clause 21: Sections 511 to SH inserted- The issue can be expressed a little better if Mr BRYCE: I guess that we will have to deal one reads an excerpt from schedule 5 of the with parts of this clause separately and I would Constitution Acts Amendment Act which enu- like to do that as speedily as possible. Clause 21 merates the office bearers who are disqualified tends to take into account most of the issues from being members of Parliament. With using that were raised by members opposite, and I the word "or". one could say there is a choice will touch on them very quickly. between the Electoral Commissioner or the Firstly, there is a consequential amendment Deputy Commissioner as to which one should relating to what we have done in respect of the be disqualified. I will not dwell on this point. Deputy Electoral Commissioner. Secondly, The intention is that the Deputy Electoral there is the question of the consultation that Commissioner should be in the same position the Premier must have with the parliamentary as the Electoral Commissioner because the Bill leader of each of the parties in the Parliament allows him to act during the absence of the prior to the appointment of the Electoral Coin- [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 351131 missioner or of anyone else who comes into That is the point Cabinet reached in respect that category. This is touched on in two differ- of that matter. The other amendments to clause ent pants. 21 on pages 12 and 13 are consequential We have the question of a member of Parlia- amendments relating to the inclusion of the ment being banned for life from being Deputy Electoral Commissioner. appointed to the position of Electoral Com- Mr MENSAROS: We accept these amend- missioner. The suggestion contained in the Bill ments. During the course of the second reading was that any person who had been a member of debate we agreed to change our original Parliament up to three years prior to the ap- proposition that the appointment of the Elec- pointment should be ruled ineligible. In this toral Commissioner and his deputy should be which regard I took three options to Cabinet jointly made by the Premier and the leaders of were that the period be three years, 10 years, or recognised parties to the proposition that the for life. Cabinet opted for life. appointment should be made by the Premier in Mr Rushton: Didn't you make a consultation with the leaders of any recognised recommendation? They must be putting you parties. Therefore, the first amendment down. foreshadowed by the Minister for Parliamen- Mr BRYCE: I said that I thought that the tary and Electoral Reform is quite acceptable. question was wide open and the Bill which I Indeed, it is quite proper because somebody put to Cabinet and to the Committee suggested has to be responsible for a recommendation to a period of three years. I told Cabinet that a the Governor and the Premier of the day is the good argument had been put forward by mem- proper person to make that recommendation. bers of the Opposition during the Committee stage and that they argued for life and, on that The provision that the Premier shall consult basis, Cabinet agreed with members opposite. with the parliamentary leader of each party in the Parliament gives enough security to ensure Mr Rushton: What about your opinion? that the person so recommended will not be Mr BRYCE: I did not feel strongly about life. someone against whom the other parties could Maybe it could be 10 years. I tended to react to complain. If the Premier were to ignore the it by saying that there were few things in our essence of the consultations, the effects would democratic society from which we would ban rebound on the Premier of the day because of People for life. It strikes me as being a bit the ensuing adverse publicity. rough. The other thing members opposite must take Two interesting little amendments have been into account is that the person concerned could foreshadowed by the Minister for Parliamen- be an Independent or he may not necessarily be tary and Electoral Reform. Th~ey remind us of a member of a political party. I am not sure in what good, bad, or indifferent hands of the about how we would treat people who might draftsmen parliamentarians are. I do not know have been members of Parliament in another whet her it escaped t he attenti on of the M in ister country. for Parliamentary and Electoral Reform that those two amendments are purely machinery I have just been advised that it applies to amendments. The wording tries to express the Australia only. same thing in a better fashion than was pre- Mr Mensaros: I think that is the way it would viously expressed in the Bill. I am a little con- be interpreted. cerned that the very same draftsmen who Mr BRYCE: We are talking about other Par- drafted provisions one way when drawing up liaments in Australia and in other places. the Bill, a month or so later when reviewing it In response to the member for Dale, I believe think that perhaps they have not expressed there are some circumstances where the themselves very well and should express them- proposed amendment may be a bit tough, but I selves differently. It is not a matter of that do not feel strongly about it. A person may be being the fault of the Government or aiiyone laundered over a 10-year period and he may be else because it happens all the time. It shows, a very worthy professional. first, how subjective drafting is and how we can rely on it less and less. After a year or two Mr Court: Like John Halfpenny? years, if not a shorter time, all legislation Mr BRYCE: No, perhaps even Mr Nicholls. I drafted comes back to the Chamber for amend- imagine somebody being connected to an ideo- ment because the draft has not expressed the logical or professional flushing machine that proper intention of the legislator or the literally flushed them out for 10 years. adminstrator who, in his legislative capacity, 3512 3512[ASSEMBLY] brought it to the Parliament. The legislation, as some fine tuning whether the time given to it drafted, was found to be not workable. was three months, six months, or nine months. I refer to the Minister's foreshadowed Somebody will look at an article or a amendment, which reads- proposition and wake up the next morning Page 12, line 5-To delete "he may sus- thinking that it could be expressed in slightly pend the Electoral Commissioner" and different words for the purposes of tightening it substitute the following- up, rather than changing its meaning. the Governor may suspend him In response to the member for Stirling, I With due respect to you, Madam ChairI ac- point out that I made the offer to the Deputy cording to the Interpretation Act "him" in- Leader of the Opposition, the member for cludes "her" as well. This foreshadowed Stirling and the member for Floreat to sit down amendment reverses the previous position and with them and analyse statistically the electoral refers to the Governor as such and to the Com- implications of the proposal which the Govern- missioner as "him". It is purely a machinery ment has brought to the House in the form of change, as is the foreshadowed amendment the Bill, as also their proposals, based upon the which reads- election results as far back as the beginning of Page 13, line 19-To delete "that" and the 1970s, to assess in the cold light of day substitute the following- exactly what would have happened. That work has been done. Nobody has told me that he such an believes I am telling an untruth when I make I always understood that the terms meant ihe statement that the models brought to the much the same thing. It is six or half-a-dozen. Chamber by the Liberal Party and the National Again, it shows how insecure we are in our Party guarantee that the Australian Labor drafting if those words have to be changed at Party would not under any circumstances dur- the first opportunity. ing the 1970s and to this point in the 1980s As the Minister for Parliamentary and Elec- have won a majority in the upper House. We toral Reform said, the other foreshadowed just happen to have on our plate, therefore, a amendments include those we placed on the situation in which members opposite have Notice Paper. Therefore, we support them. proposed changes to the electoral system, which changes seek to continue the ways of the Mr STEPHENS: The National Party sup- past, guaranteeing a built-in majority for mem- ports these amendments. As the Minister for bers opposite. Parliamentary and Electoral Reform pointed out, they are being introduced as a consequence Later I intend to table that analysis. I sent a of the second reading debate. Perhaps the com- memo to the Office of Parliamentary and Elec- ment would be More appropriate in the third toral Reform and asked it to do that analysis. reading, but it is a pity that the Government The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has did not go a little further in acknowledging all heard this argument from mec before. Nobody the amendments that were put forward by this has told me that he believes I am wrong statisti- side of the Chamber. Perhaps the Bill would cally. I have offered members opposite the op- then have had more promise than it would portunity to study that analysis. appear to have at this stage. However, we Mr Stephens: Are you now giving us your acknowledge that the Government has taken on third reading speech? board at least some of the points raised by the Mr BRYCE: No, I am not. I am responding Opposition. to the point the member made. Mr BRYCE: Before moving the amendments to clause 21 1 make two comments. The first is Mr Stephens: I could have elaborated a lot in defence of the parliamentary draftspersons. I more, but I did not think it appropriate to do have attended political conferences and so at this stage. I thought it would be more participated in the legislative process in the appropriate during debate on the third reading. first instance for 25 years and in the second Mr BRYCE: I will show the member how about 15 years and I have helped to prepare constructive I am. I would like us to discuss it documents and resolutions of all sorts. I know today and intend to provide the Chamber with that if a committee of legislators or Ordinary the response I have had. I intend to table that human beings in any sort of committee process statistical analysis of all three models which is given six months to prepare a draft and then have been under consideration during the de- a final document in most instances in another bate surrounding the Bill and to seek leave to week or two, that committee would still do have it incorporated in Hansard. (Thursday, 23 October 19861 313513

This statistical analysis demonstrates quite Page 12, line 17-To insert after conclusively the point 1 have just made. If the "Governor" the,' following- members for Stirling and Floreat have any ,on the recommendation of the doubt in their minds as to why the Govern- Premier, ment cannot and will not accept the precise details of the proposals which they have Page 12, after line 22-To insert the fob- brought to this House for regional proportional lowing subsection to stand as subsection representation in the upper House, I point out (2) of proposed section 513- that it is very simple, honest, and straightfor- (2) Before making a ward: We believe that neither party represented recommendation under subsection (1) by members sitting opposite has come to this the Premier shall consult with the Par- place in this debate in a fair dinkumn sense liamentary leader of each party in the prepared to implement a sytemn which allows Parliament. the Labor Party to win a majority in the upper Page 13, line 15-To delete "that" and House. substitute the following- Both sides opposite came here with a model such an designed to reinforce, in 1980s fashion, the his- Page 13, line 19-To delete "that" and tory of the past which guarantees the Labor substitute the following- Party cannot win a majority upstairs. I would like members opposite to have an opportunity, such an when the memo reaches me, to look at it before Page 15, lines 3 to 5-To delete the third reading debate next Tuesday. I would subsection (1) of the proposed section 5H. be most interested to hear members opposite Amendments put and passed. who have handled this debate for their respect- Clause, as amended, put and passed. ive political parties put their professional repu- tation on the line and say whether in the con- Clauses 22 to 43 put and passed. text of this debate the Labor Party should be Clause 44: Section 80 inserted- entitled to be able to win upstairs and whether Mr BRYCE: This was overlooked by me last the models they have presented to this place week. I accept responsibility for it and I apolo- would make that situation possible. gise to the Committee. It is a minor consequen- I move the following amendments- tial amendment which was one of a number which will help to do the right thing in respect lines 16 and 17-To delete Page 10, of the agreement reached on how we should subsection (1) of the proposed section 513 properly deal with the death of a candidate. It and insert the following subsections to is similar to one of those we moved last week. stand as subsections (1), (2) and (3)- I move an amendment- (1) In this section and sections 5C and 5E "Electoral Commissioner" in- Page 25, lines 9 to 20-To delete cludes Deputy Electoral Com- proposed section 80(5) and substitute the missioner. following- (2) The Electoral Commissioner (5) Where a claim is made under shall be appointed by the Governor on subsection (1) in respect of an election the recommendation of the Premier, and any of the persons who made the and shall hold office in accordance claim is, before polling day for that with this Act. election, declared by any court to be incapable of being elected at that elec- (3) Before making a tion, then, after the making of the dec- recommendation under subsection (2) laration- the Premier shall consult with the Par- (a) where there are 2 or more other liamentary leader of each party in the persons who made that claim, the Parliament. group shall consist of the rema in- Page 11, line 13-To delete "within the der of those persons only;, or preceding 3 years". (b) where there is only one other per- Page 12, line 5-To delete "he may sus- son who made that claim, the pend the Electoral Commissioner' and claim shall be of no force or ef- substitute the following- fect. the Governor may suspend him Amendment put and passed. 3514 3514[ASSEMBLY]

Clause, as amended, put and passed. spoken to the member for Floreat and possibly Clauses 45 to 73 put and passed to the member for Stirling. I wish to put on Clause 74: record that the other issue raised in Committee Part IV Division (4b) inserted- and considered by Cabinet was the most ideal Mr BRYCE: This amendment is fairly method of filling vacancies which occurred in straightforward and I am sure members op- multi-member constituencies following the in- posite readily appreciate the principle. It re- troduction of proportional representation. lates to the provisions for scrutineers and seeks to implement the suggestion put to the Com- The Cabinet clearly expressed its preference mittee by members opposite. for the same system which applies in the Sen- ate; that is, the position advanced to the Com- I move an amendment- mittee by the members for Stirling and Floreat. Page 42, line 26-To delete "one scruti- However, it is aware that such action requires a nleer" and substitute the following- referendum and it is not prepared to hold one not more than 3 scrutineers in the near future. However, because we need something in the Bill to proceed with at this Mr MENSAROS: This amendment achieves stage, Cabinet resolved that we should insert the same purpose as the amendment put for- this i nto the Bill and on the occassion of the ward by the Opposition, drafted by the private next State Election conduct a referendum to members' draftsman; namely, to have a maxi- seek the concurrence of the people, on the mum of three scrutineers of each group during understanding that there would be all-party the count, as opposed to during the poll. The agreement to the proposal. amendment is expressed very briefly whereas our amendment was almost a full page. That I give this fair undertaking to members prior shows the lesser drafting facilities available to to the 1989 election: I very much doubt the Opposition. We are quite satisfied with the whether the Government would be prepared to amendment and I am happy that it is expressed run a referendum unless there were agreement in such few words. by the pantics that it be processed in that way. Amendment put and passed. However, following the understandings which have been reached, I hope that would be the Clause, as amended, put and passed. case. Clauses 75 to 87 put and passed. I point out to the Leader of the National Clause 88: Section 2 repealed and a section Party that he will be delighted to know that the substituted- wording of the Bill relating to the trivia mech- Mr BRYCE: I move the following amend- anism with regard to redistribution has been ments- examined. As a matter of judgment I have al- Page 63, line 22-To insert after lowed an amendment to be proposed upstairs, "Governor" the following- but the principle is the same. on the recommendation of the The wording has been examined. Nobody is Premier, prepared to state that the previous wording is wrong, but we will proceed henceforth without Page 63, after line 24-To i nsert the fol- reference to "next previous". lowing subsection to stand as subsection (5) of proposed section 2- Mr MENSAROS: We accept the proposed (5) Before making a amendment. We welcome the Deputy recommendation under subsection (4) Premier's explanation regarding filling the cas- the Premier shall consult with the Par- ual vacancy. It would be possible to guarantee liamentary leader of each party in the joint party approval only if we agreed on the Parliament. Bill. So far we have agreed on many amend- ments. Indeed we have agreed to many The amendments on this clause relate to the unamended provisons of the Bill. But as will be point raised by members opposite with regard explained at the third reading stage, there are to a replacement to act for the statistician and still basic items where there are great differ- that some consultation take place between the ences. If we want agreement, as we do, these Premier and the parliamentary leader of each differences will have to be a matter of possibly of the other parties. very lengthy negotiations. Agreement cannot be I indicate in the Committee officially the achieved by examining papers in a short period nature of the discussion which took place. I of time. Eventually we will have to consider think that somebody from my staff has already reconciling the views of the different parties. [Thursday, 23 October 19961 35151

It is like two large companies wanting to recent times that we have come to truly ap- negotiate a deal. The executives negotiate, and preciate the importance of preserving the deli- from time to time they must go back to their cate balance in our environment, and there is boards to obtain approval for the agreed no doubt that for decades man's progress was points. To pass a Bill with the agreement of the marked by a fairly cavalier disregard for the major parties is the prerequisite for having an impact of development on the environment. assurance that it will have their blessing at the Despite the remarkable powers of regeneration time of the referendum. and self-repair that the environment has The idea was proposed by both the National demonstrated, today we can see everywhere Party and the Liberal Panty- The Deputy around the globe, including as far south as Premier kindly let me have the Solicitor Gen- Antarctica, the effects of man's disregard for eral's report. The difficulties regarding the ref- and lack of understanding of the impact of our erendum have been pointed out, so we have development on our surroundings. settled for this proposal contained in the Bill as Ultimately damage to the environmrent af- second best for filling casual vacancies in the fects all of us. It affects our capacity to produce Council. In isolation we support the idea if it is food and to use other renewable resources, and based an regions, the number of councillors in it affects the air we breathe and the water we the region, and the number of electoral districts drink. It also affects our quality of life, the level for the Assembly within the regions, based on a of noise we have to endure at work and at joint agreement between the parties. home, and the aesthetic side of our lives. Mr STEPHENS: We accept the idea of the There are few parts of the world endowed matter going before a referendum at the time of with so many features of outstanding natural an election because that would save on ex- beauty as Western Australia. There is an enor- pense. Naturally we support the principle. mous range of natural features in this State, As the member for Floreat has already from the tropical zones of the northern part of pointed out, in the present context there is the Slate to the dense forests in the south, from some doubt whether this Bill will successfully the sheer coastal cliffs to the wide, sandy pass through both Houses. it may be possible at beaches, to the desert wildernesses that are some future date, perhaps after the next elec- unique in many respects. Many of these have tion, to come to some agreement on multi- been preserved in their natural beauty because member vacancies. On that basis the Govern- development has not yet reached those places. ment may be prepared to consider going ahead It is only in the last 10 years or so that we with the referendum to alter the Constitution have really begun to appreciate the enormous to provide, where there are multi-member advantages our State can reap from these natu- constituencies, the provisions we were seeking ral features. We are just starting to realise the to obtain. We would have that mechanism in potential we have to develop tourism as a place at an election prior to the final details major attraction and as an industry for the being finalised. I ask the Deputy Premier to State. Tourism will undoubtedly develop into take cognisance of that point. one of our major industries, for two reasons. Amendments put and passed. One is that as the standard of living around the Clause, as amended, put and passed. world, particularly in Western countries, rises, so the capacity for people to be able to plan to Clauses 89 to 104 put and passed. go overseas for their holidays increases, and Title put and passed. our geographical isolation does not cut us out Bill reported, with amendments. of that tourist industry. At the same time, as our natural features and areas of beauty be- Sitting suspendedfromn 12.5810o 2.1S p.m. come better known around the world, so people are prepared to travel to what is seen by many ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTON BILL as the last frontier for some of the features we have. Second Reading At the same time, Western Australia enjoys a Debate resumed from 21t October. very high standard of living and that is in large MRS HENDERSON (Gosnells) [2. 15 p.m,]: part due to the industrial development of this This Bill is a landmark piece of legislation in State. There is no doubt that those two go hand the environmental field and will go down in the in hand. However, I am one of those who be- history of Western Australian legislation as a lieves that those two features-a high standard major advance for the State. It is only in very of living dependent on development, and the 3516 3516[ASSEMBLY] maintenance of the natural environment-are The most outstanding feature is that it brings not incompatible. Our power to control pol- together under one piece of legislation all those lution and to minimise damage has increased major areas that are affected by pollution and enormously in recent times. need protection. The areas of noise, air and water pollution, Industr is fiercely competitive. Whenever including underground water pollution, are all there is competition between industries, obvi- brought together from other Acts. I believe this ously it militates in favour of the cheapest will lead to a much better understanding by the means of disposing of waste so that an industry will not have to pay a price that its competitors community, and in turn a greater respect for first time an onus is that places an enor- the legislation. For the might not have to pay; and placed on individuals and on corporations not mous burden on the environment. It underlines the need for some outside body to impose clear to pollute. This onus, on behalf of the com- munity, requires that where there are gross acts and fair standards on all industries on behalf of of pollution, where pollution occurs due to neg- the community. Without the imposition of ligence or where it is premeditated, there will these standards from outside, it is unreasonable be penalties and the pollutor will be required to to expect one industry to act responsibly and meet some of the burden of cost for amending with concern for the environment while and making good the damage from that pol- another might not do so. Obviously they both lution. have to compete in the same marketplace and are both subject to the same costs. For the first time there is a requirement that all spillages be reported. This underlines the The Government, on behalf of the com- seriousness with which the Government re- munity, takes on the role of establishing clear gards spillages of oils and chemicals into the and fair standards and of ensuring that those environment. Previously, we had the anomal- standards are met. If the burden that is placed ous situation where a major spill of a chemical on everyone is fair and equal it is more likely to could pollute the environment and no-one be accepted by all. This Bill very clearly sets would be aware of it other than the people in out some of those standards in a way that will the immediate vicinity. It was not possible to be understood by all, and sets realistic penalties check on the level of previous spillages in any for the contravention of those standards so that one area because no record was kept. This Bill they will be abided by. changes that situation. The Bill also maintains a fiercely indepen- If standards are set but there are no penalties dent Environmental Protection Authority and for contravention, obviously industry will enhances the role that that authority has of weigh up the cost to itself of taking action to giving independent advice on the environment prevent pollution or just meet the costs of any to the Minister. It also gives the Minister a prosecution that might result. clearer and more definite role in monitoring the activities of other Government authorities The other thing which the Bill sets out to do very significant that in relation to these contraventions is to provide. and departments. It is a fair System of appeal. That is important. Un- when one thinks of pollution and the culprits til recently, environmental legislation in West- one tends to think of industrialists and corpor- if one looks at the history of some ern Australia has been characterised as being ations. Yet, fragmented. Environmental requirements have of the major environmental battles in Western been spread across a wide range of different Australia, in many cases it has been other Government departments and authorities' ac- pieces of legislation and different regulations to different Acts, all policed by different bodies. tivities that have caused concern. It is a major step forward for this Bill to clearly define the One of the best ways of reducing the effective- role of the Minister in relation to the activities ness of anything is to spread it across many different areas so no-one knows where the of other Government departments. power lies. The Environmental Protection Authority in Western Australia has created an enviable The 1971 Act that this Bill amends was record in establishing the need for environmen- imprecise and weak in many areas particularly tal. impact statements and studies. Although the in its implementation, although its aims and previous Act did not clearly set out what was objectives might have been advanced for that required, the EPA has taken on that task of time. I would like to refer briefly to some of the requiring and seeking to define the guidelines features of the Bill. for those studies. [Thursday, 23 October 1986J151 3517

Unfortunately, the Bill on which the EPA ate that if they show concern for the environ- was acting lacked any detail. Many of us would ment they will benefit as much as the people be familiar with some of the environmental for whom they are doing the development. impact statements produced. A number of these statements resembled glossy advertising Unfortunately, because of the history of brochures rather than detailed environmental controversy and battles between environmental studies. Many of them lacked the original re- groups and Governments, many environ- search relevant to the particular proposal. If mentalists have been subject to unflattering one looked at the figures that many of those campaigns and have variously been labelled as environmental impact statements contained econuts and greenies. I refer to a recent series one could often find studies that had been car- of television advertisements which depict ried out many years before by other people that environmentalists as mindless fools. That does had been lifted out and placed into the en- no credit to the sponsors of those advertise- vironmental impact statement surrounded by ments. It appears to have generated a great deal glossy coloured photographs and presented as of anger in the community which, if anything, an environmental impact study. has benefited the environmentalists. These sorts of television campaigns reflect the effec- This Bill will see the end of that situation tiveness of the environmental movement in because it sets out what is required. It shows a Western Australia. more serious approach to the whole question of environmental impact studies. I commend the If one examines reports and submissions that Minister for the consultation he had when have been put forward to the EPA by these drafting this Bill with environmental groups in environmental groups, one can be impressed by the community. It is unfortunate that Western their professionalism and thoroughness of ap- Australia's history has been littered with battles proach. I have no doubt that the current level between environmental groups and the of understanding about the environment, Government of the day. This Bill will see the demonstrated by our school children-which is end of that. It reflects the fact that the Minister greater today than it has ever been-is largely a has taken the trouble to consult with many en- credit to those people who have worked in the vironmental groups across the board. The Bill voluntary environmental movement. I com- incorporates some of their ideas. It also pro- mend them for their work. vides for many avenues in the community to The Bill before the House heralds a more have an input into environmental matters and serious approach by the Government, and a for wide community discussion. This is a major genuine concern to consult with the whole com- step forward. munity about environmental matters and to es- In paying tribute to the Minister for tablish fair standards for all. consulting with these groups, I also pay tribute As I said at the outset, I think this is truly a to the Conservation groups themselves, It has landmark piece of legislation with an eye to the been my experience that most of the people future of Western Australia. I hope that the who are involved in these voluntary groups history of confrontation over environmental have a deep and continuing concern for the matters will now he behind us and that this Bill environment and its future health and well- will usher in an era of consultation and prog- being. They have put in hundreds of hours of ress. I would like to mention two or three voluntary time, usually for no personal gain. specific features of the Bill which I believe are They appear to be motivated by a philosophical worthy of more detailed examination. commitment to the need to value the environ- ment and preserve it for the future. Our chil- First of all, the Environmental Protection dren have a great deal for which to thank these Authority, through this Bill, has two major people. However, in carrying out this work they objectives: Firstly, to protect the environment have no doubt posed a threat to developers. and, secondly, to prevent and control pollution. They have challenged the right of developers However, the EPA is charged with a substantial and industrialists to develop in an unfettered number of functions which I think reflect the way without any regard for the future and with Government's concern to establish an indepen- concern only for short-term gains. I think it is a dent, strong, and effective organisation. For tribute to the work they have done that the example, the EPA is charged with conducting level of community understanding and concern environmental impact statements and taking for the environment has increased enormously, the initiative by initiating means to protect and to the extent that most developers now appreci- control the environment of its own volition. 3518 3518[ASSEMBLY)

- It is also charged with encouraging and i nd icate h ow the envi ron men tal qu a i ty is to be carrying out studies and research into the en- measured in that area and the particular vironment, and seeking the advice of people objectives to be achieved. with special knowledge. It is charged with ad- The policies can stipulate the maximum vising the Minister on all environmental mat- quantities of waste that can be discharged into ters generally as well as the particular proposals a particular environment, and the maximum that are before the Government at the time. It levels of noise and odour, and minimum stan- is also charged with a completely new role of dards can be set for the operation of any equip- preparing draft environmental protection poli- ment. The policies can also set out the pro- cies, and I will come back to that later. cedures that are necessary to measure and con- It is also charged with promoting environ- trol pollution on a regular basis. An example of mental awareness in the community and re- how this could have been a very effective ceiving representations from the public on all method in the past is that had a draft environ- kinds of environmental matters. It must issue mental policy been drawn up for the Cockburn public reports on the environment and it must Sound area, it would have clearly set out, right provide guidelines for planners, builders and from the beginning, the parameters of the area engineers on ways in which their activities can and the regular measurements to be done, how be carried out with a minimum impact on the that environment was to be protected, and the environment. It is also charged with sorts of machinery and operations which could coordinating all these planning activities in take place. such a way that there is no disharmony be- We all learn with hindsight and I believe that tween them, and it must itself develop the cri- these draft environmental policies will be a teria which will be used in the assessment of very important factor in ensuring some of the the impact on the environment of any feature. mistakes that were made in Cockburn Sound In other words, they must develop standards will not recur elsewhere. They should certainly and criteria for testing and sampling pollutants allow for the development of some areas that in the environment. have previously been untouched, with mini- I would mention that one of the new func- mum damage to the environment, and they tions of the EPA will be to draw up draft en- should also allow for development of light in- vironmental protection policies. This is a dustrial areas, for example, relatively close to major new initiative of this Bill. The Bill sets urban areas, with the full protection of a draft out how these environmental protection poli- environmental policy for that particular area. I cies are to be drawn up and it dwells at great believe this section of the Bill is a major step length on who is to be consulted in drawing up forward and will allow particular areas to have these policies. Anyone who is likely to be affec- the full protection of the law as though they ted by an environmental policy is to be had been dealt with in detail in this Bill. consulted. The draft policies are themselves to The second major section of this Bill which I be published in daily newspapers that circulate think will greatly advantage the environment in throughout the State, and the Minister, when Western Australia is the section on environ- he or she receives a draft, is empowered to set mental impact statements, which I mentioned up a committee of inquiry which will hold pub- earlier. Under this legislation, any proposal lic hearings into that proposed draft. The com- that is likely to have a significant effect on the mittee then reports on the proposed draft and environment must be referred to the EPA for the report goes to the Minister, and must then an environmental impact statement, and any be circulated widely among the public person or authority can request that an en- authorities and other people likely to be affec- vironmental impact statement be drawn up. If ted by that draft policy. The Minister has the no-one requests such a statement, the Minister power to approve or to disapprove of those of the day can ask for a statement to be pre- draft policies. pared if that Minister believes that the proposal If the draft is approved, it then has the full could cause public concern. force of the law in the same way as if it had The Bill then sets out the steps that are been pant of this Bill. These policies are docu- necessary in submitting an environmental im- ments that set out a particular geographical pact statement, and what the EPA must do in area of the environment that is to be protected. assessing a statement that has been drawn up. They set out how pollution is to be prevented Full consultation must occur at ail stages, and or controlled within an area and must clearly the proponent of the development must be kept identify the boundaries of the area. It should fully informed on the process of the environ- [Thursday, 23 October 1986J151 3519 mental impact statement and how it has been people in no uncertain position as to their assessed by the Minister as well as by the per- responsibilities. son or body who first requested it. The en- vironmental impact statement must be made At the same time, the person who allows or available to the public and the Bill actually permits waste to be discharged into the en- promotes wide public discussion of environ- vironment through negligence also commits an menial impact statements. I hope this legis- offence under this Bill. However, the Bill takes lation will see the end of' the period when we regard of the fact that many noxious industries had charges and countercharges about environ- that are currently operating cannot mental impact statements being kept secret so immediately cease polluting the environment, that the public was not able to get access to so it provides for a system of issuing licences for prescribed premises that discharge waste them and all kinds of allegations in respect of into what might or might not be in those statements the environment. The Bill can set stan- being made because they had not been released. dards for the licence for those premises and can specify quite clearly the volume of waste which The Minister can require the EPA to reassess is to be discharged, and how it is to be an environmental impact statement if he or she discharged. If a new occupier or owner of those is not happy with the initial assessment and the premises installs any new equipment which EPA is charged to consider all the relevant en- changes the level of pollution or permits new vironmental factors. It can then set conditions pollutants to be discharged, or changes the or procedures to which that proposal must be main fuel used in the generation of power for subject. This Bill hinges very strongly on con- their particular industry or whatever, that per- sultation and agreement reached through these son is then committing an offence unless he has sorts of mechanisms, but if an agreement is not previously applied and been exempted. reached, very clear appeals procedure is set out in the legislation. The Minister can change the All those prescribed premises which are li- proposed conditions Or procedures that are censed must not exceed the level of pollutants suggested by the EPA and if the proposal is set down in the licence unless there is an acci- subject to a large number of constraints or dent. The Bill allows for changed environmen- changes, it can be deemed to be a new proposal tal circumstances so that if an environment in and go right through the whole environmental which a factory operates is in difficulty because impact statement process again. of the level of pollutants being discharged, and there may be a need for more stringent con- Meanwhile the Minister is in a position to ditions or standards to protect the environ- cause the proponent to cease implementing his ment, there is provision for the licence to be proposal and to order the developer to take changed. Some licences may be ranted subject steps to comply with the procedures necessary to the installation of particular kinds of equip- to protect the environment until the environ- ment which will control pollution. mental impact statement and the measures required have been agreed upon. Anyone who An interesting step forward is that the Minis- does not comply with these orders to cease con- ter, as part of a licence, can require an industry tinuing with the development of the proposal or development to look at recycling the waste commits an offence. rather than release it into the environment. That is a major step forward. The Bill also sets out very clearly measures to control pollution. For the first time it places an The Bill also provides for pollution abate- onus on individuals and corporations not to ment notices to be issued to set out quite pollute and specifies that anyone who does pol- clearly how pollution being discharged by an lute commits an offence. Pollution is defined industry must be abated. These notices can as- specify particular pollutants or noise or dis- charge of chemicals which must be abated to (2) A person who emits or causes or al- certain levels. Anyone who does not comply lows to be emitted from any premises with these abatement notices commits an of- noise, odour or electromagnetic radiation fence, and if they continue to do so, that which unreasonably interferes with the noxious trade or industry can be closed down health, welfare, convenience, comfort or in whole or part; so the industry may be amenity of any person commits an offence. ordered to take specific steps to deal with the It is a fairly broad definition but I think for the conditions causing discharge of pollution. The first time the Government's position with re- Minister may serve notices requiring steps to gard to pollution is truly stated, and leaves be taken in that industry to resolve the unsatis- 3520 3520[ASSEMBLY] factory discharge of pollution into the environ- in the correct way. Consultation on pollution men t. control, and the responsibility of bringing all The Bill also provides for the first time that this into one Act will also make for a better where pollution has been discharged the pol- piece of legislation. The clear and easy appeal lutants are to be dispersed or disposed of and system of which he spoke is also interesting the cost can be recovered from the original pol- provided it works properly, and I will come luter. That removes from the taxpayer the bur- back to it in a minute, too. The Minister said it den of always paying for the discharge of pol- was the Government's aim, through this legis- lution into the environment by industry. lation, to continue with and further encourage all tiers of government to accept environmental This really is a landmark piece of legislation. management responsibilities. He said, "That It should bring about increased environmental role will not be lessened." I will raise a question activity in Western Australia and lead to later with regard to the involvement of local greater public participation and consultation, government. and far less confrontation, in the area of en- vironment. There always is a very fine point between development and the environment in relation MR HOUSE (Katanning-Roe) (2.43 p.m.]: I to whether we allow the development of certain assure the House that members of the National industries in particular areas or whether we Party wish to make a contribution to this Bill. stop them because they are going to harm the The only thing I noticed in the party room was environment. We need to look at a number of that they were not knocking each other over for issues in that way. These days, very few of us the privilege of having to speak to the Bill in want to wantonly ruin the environment, but we the House. If one looks at the current state of must have development in Western Australia, the House at the moment, it may be that and indeed in other parts of Australia. So we although many of us claim to have some interest in the environment, we soon lose have to tread a very fine line. interest when it comes to the particular details. I would like to bring to the notice of the I guess that is probably because the legislation House a couple of examples in my electorate is very complicated. where these problems are very difficult to ad- I was told when I came here that one should dress. Just north of Pingrup in the Lake Grace not speak on a subject about which one knows Shire is a gypsum deposit which is on an "A"- nothing. I have a funny feeling I am about to class reserve. If the EPA would allow that to be break that rule now. I feel like a pilot who has a mined it would save the farmers of that district visual licence and is about to fly into heavy thousands of dollars. The EPA has chosen not cloud-he is not too sure what he is going to do to allow it, and I can assure this House that this when he gets into the middle of it. is one lake among many hundreds in that area. I do not exaggerate. The EPA says it has been I hope the points that I make are construc- and looked at it, but I wonder whether the tive, and if I offer criticism, it is in the hope authority understands the implications of what that those points of criticism will be addressed it has said and done. It is a clear example of, on in the Committee stage. one hand providing a benefit for local farmers The fact that it has been so long since this as well as a local industry which could employ legislation was changed in any major way indi- people, and on the other Of Preserving a pant of cates one of two things: Either the legislation the environment which the EPA believes needs has been too difficult for previous Ministers to be preserved. and Governments to tackle, or the previous In my Shire of Onowangerup we recently put legislation was so good it did not need to be a road through the Stirling National Park and changed. Perhaps the Minister might answer came face to face with the environmental pro- that later. tection people as we developed the road. The I remind the Minister of a couple of things he engineer on the shire council told me that said in his second reading speech. He said that approximately 25 per cent greater cost was the increase in the membership of the Environ- added to that development as a result of the mental Protection Authority to five members things the environmental protection people would widen its level of expertise. I guess that wanted done. I do not object to that provided is true, provided one picks the right people. I they are sure that what they have asked for and will come back to that point in a minute. The the imposition it creates is really necessary, and avenues for community involvement in this they are not just doing it because the Act gives Bill are also improved provided they are used them the power to do it. [Thursday, 23 October 1986) 352132

That is one of the things that worries me that wire for the fencing of salt-land areas, for about this Bill. As I said earlier, there is example, could be a tax deduction, if only to probably no problem if one has the right people assist in the rehabilitation of those areas. to administer it. How does the Minister view this Hill in re- The other area of great concern in my elec- lation to local government bodies? In his sec- torate is the Fitzgerald National Park, which is ond reading speech, he clearly stated that he one of the most beautiful areas of national park does not see any erosion of the powers of local in Australia. it contains some of the most mag- government bodies. In fact, he stated clearly nificent wildflowers one would wish to see. It is that there is a greater role for them to play. I a great tourist area, yet this year many would like him to spell out how he sees their accesseways have been closed because of involvement. dieback in the park. I do not object to that if it As the member for Gosnells pointed out, the is proving something, but what about the Minister will appoint the committee of five kangaroos in the park? Are they and other ani- which will form the Environmental Protection mals spreading the dieback? What sort of study Authority. However, in the case of an appeal, is being done to show that driving a car along as I understand the Bill, the Minister has the the roads and tracks of the park has a greater final decision. It will be very difficult for a effect on the spread of dieback than the ani.- Minister who appoints that authority to set mals in the park. I hope the Minister will ad- himself up as judge and jury over that authority dress that question when he replies. which he sanctioned and committed himself to There is no doubt this Bill is based on maxi- and override one of its decisions. In that case mum cooperation, and that is something that from whom would he seek assistance and on will have to continue. I compliment the Minis- what grounds would he override the decision? I ter; if one looks at the Notice Paper one sees think that is one of the important anomalies in that since his second reading speech the Minis- the Bill because the right of appeal against the ter has decided to introduce a number of committee's decision is what this Bill hinges amendments. Obviously he has done so be- on. cause he has had consultation with people and The Minister should be careful whom he ap- has accepted the advice he has been given and points to the authority. If he appoints zealots, decided that changes needed to be made. such as greenies on the one side and people I am sure that, as we argue this Bill through committed to development at any cost on the the Committee stage, other points will be made other side, decisions coming from the com- in the same way and I am sure that the Minis- mittee will be open to criticism. It will be im- ter, given his willingness to accept points made portant to ensure that the people appointed are to him, will also accept many points made at concerned with the protection of the environ- that time. ment, but not at the cost of the development of I guess that brings me back to my main Western Australia. As in all legislation, that point. We have to be practical about what we allows for wide discretionary powers and there want. It is no good having a Western Australia will be times when those powers will be that does not encourage development simply questioned. because we are not prepared to push over a few I am not sure whether what I have read into trees. Equally, it is no good overelearing the the Bill is correct. I have interpreted pant of it land as many farmers have done to the detri- to mean that the requirement of negligence and ment of agricultural areas. There is no question not just responsibility must be proved before that in the 1950s and the early 1960s, many of offenders can be fined still remains in the Bill. I us cleared trees in salt-land areas, natural water want to know how the discretionary power of areas, and areas prone to erosion. We are now the Minister and the authority that he will set spending thousands of dollars reafforesting up will fit in with that. I also want to know those areas without any assistance from any- what participation the people who put up the body. We have received very little from the plans for developments will have in the de- Government by way of tax deductions and un- cision-making and whether they will appear be- less the Government recognises that assistance fore the committee and be able to put forward is necessary, few people will continue with at- their application a second time. It is very im- tempts to save those areas and the problem will portant that all the information is brought out. be exacerbated. I think that is something that Will the Crown be exempted from applications the Minister could take up with his Federal involving, for example, the Water Authority of colleagues. He could attempt to persuade them Western Australia? What exemptions will be

(111) 3522 3522[ASSEMBLY] made for catchment areas for public water People involved in local government come supplies and things of that nature? from wide-ranging backgrounds. That would enable them to have a sound input into the As I have said, I think the positive aspects of decisions of the authority. this Bill are that it brings together mast of the That is all I wish to say in general about this environmental protection legislation. It also in- Bill. I hope that, in the Committee stage, we creases the penalties included in the Act, and will get down to some of its finer points. that is a positive measure. There are many developers in this State who would ignore the MR THOMAS (Welshpool) [3.00 p.m.I: It is directions of the EPA if they thought it would with a great deal of satisfaction that I support not cost them. the Environmental Protection Bill. The achievements of the Burke Government I now wish to return to the independence since 1983 on matters affecting the environ- from ministerial direction of the Environmen- ment have been impressive. However, the tal Protection Authority. Clearly the Minister Government has not been prepared to rest on has the final decision. However, he needs to its laurels, and when it went to the people in create some gap between himself and the com- 1986 one of its promises in the lead-up to the mittee- Maybe the Minister will tell us whether election was an undertaking to enact a new the EPA will have powers of investigation and Environmental Protection Act which would prosecution similar to the powers vested in the make statutory provision for environmental Police Force-maybe that is not a good impact assessment and consolidate pollution analogy. However, if it is a reasonable compari- control. son, it gives the committee a very high profile and great authority. One would then have to This Bill not only fulfils this undertaking, but ask whether we will allow that authority to in- it does a lot mare. It is to the credit of the vestigate or be involved in areas outside of the Minister for Environment that such a compre- powers vested in it under this Bill. hensive Bill has been presented to the Parlia- ment so early in the Government's second term The independence of the EPA from minis- of office, and it is also to his credit, as the terial direction raised problems of account- member for Gosnells said, that he has ability because obviously it has to be account- consulted so widely with conservation, indus- able to someone. For that reason and many trial, and rural interests, and that in his con- others, I think great caution needs to be sultative process he has obtained widespread exercised in the appointment of the authority. support for the Bill. It will be to the credit of It must be an evenly balanced authority and members opposite if they support the Bill with- fair to both sides of the environmental ques- out any substantive opposition. During the de- tion. Maybe advisory groups could be bate last week the member for Vasse said that appointed for particular areas and those groups he would raise some matters in the Committee could include people from business and indus- stage, but from what I understood him to say try and people who are involved in certain the general thrust of the Bill was acceptable to areas of environmental protection. They could the Opposition. be people who wish to preserve areas such as This Bill is significant in a number of re- the Fitzgerald River National Park or people spects. It is only the third time that substantive who want to have noxious industries removed environmental legislation has been presented from proposed housing areas. The Minister to this Parliament. Although it is interesting needs to consider that idea and perhaps seek that it is only the third time that such legis- opinions from those people. It is important also lation has come before the Parliament, it is also that local government bodies have some input the third time in 16 years. The reason is that into the authority because developers approach members do not have to go very far back in local government for permission to proceed history to recall that the word "environment" with developments. was not part of the political vocabulary. If members undertake research to ascertain when Time limits need to be set for appeals by matters of the environment first became a pol- developers because developers structure their itical issue, they will find that it can be businesses on having plans approved quickly or pinpointed to the early 1970s. That period within a certain time. The EPA should be coincided with the period which saw the de- empowered to make decisions within a certain mise of the Liberal-Country Party Government time. at both the State and Federal levels. (Thursday, 23 October 19861 323523

As the member for Vasse said last week, the need of renewal; and that is precisely what this first Minister for Environmental Protection in Hill seeks to do. Australia was Hon. Graham MacKinnon, who was appointed to that portfolio during the term One of the most significant features of this of the Brand Government. What he did not say Bill is that it completely overhauls the structure was that Graham MacKinnon was appointed to for the administration of environmental pro- that portfolio on 10 December 1970, which was tection. The 1971 Act had three distinct ad- only 10 weeks before that Government was de- ministrative bodies. The first was the Environ- feated. Therefore, out of a total period of 12 mental Protection Authority, which was essen- years in office, that Government had a Minis- tially the senior decision-making or ter for Environmental Protection for 10 weeks recommendatory body to the Government in only. Its realisation of the importance of the terms of policy, assessments, and the like. The environment came late. In its last year in Environmental Protection Authority was the office, the Brand Government enacted the senior body, to have the ear of the Minister. Physical Environment Protection Act 1970, Below that authority was the Environmental which was a significant achievement when Protection Council. When the legislation was taken in its context at that time. When the Bill enacted it was sought to be a broadly-based was presented to the Parliament it was gener- consultative body which would advise the ally acknowledged that it was a preliminary ex- smaller authority and the Minister. It was also ercise only and that more substantial legislation meant to be a forum for the various organis- would follow. The Government which followed ations that were represented on it. Finally, the the Brand Government, the Tonkin Govern- third element of the structure was the Depart- menit, in early 1971 acted on an undertaking ment of Conservation and Environment. It was and accorded a much higher priority to the the Public Service department which serviced question of the environment than had its the council and the authority, and predecessor. administered the Act.

The level of priority is indicated by the fact Under the new structure the council is that the then Premier, Hon. John Tonkin, was abolished, the authority continues, and the de- not only Premier, but also Minister for En- partment, under that name, is abolished and, in vironmental Protection, among other port- fact, will be integrated with the EPA. folios he held. The priority was also reflected by the fact that the Environmental Protection The council never worked as a forum and Act 1971 was enacted in the first year of the should be abolished. It was set up in 1971, and Tonkin Government. It is significant to note of the 14 members, eight were permanent that it was a comprehensive piece of legislation, heads of Government departments which led and at the time, was probably the most im- to a cynicism within the environmental move- pressive environmental legislation in Australia. ment, and it was not the sort of place where a That legislation is still with us today, and the forum could be conducted. Of the remaining passage of time has rendered it obsolete. It is members, three were industry representatives, not practical, under that legislation, to use all and there were two selected conservationists the powers which it purports to have. In ad- only. In addition, there was a local government dition to that, new concepts have arisen in en- representative. it was not a forum for the con- vironmental protection which simply were not servation movement. Industry representatives envisaged when the legislation was passed in and the Government departments which were 1971. represented had other forums and, for that reason, did not take the council very seriously. Progress in other States of Australia and in As the council had no power to make decisions, other pants of the world has overtaken Western the heads of Government departments did not Australia's legislation, and methods of environ- take it seriously and they tended to send to the mental protection which were not thought of at meetings nominees who were second in com- that time have been implemented and proven. mand and, as a result, it simply did not work. It Members would also accept that the com- was neither fish nor fowl; it was not an effec- munity's standards and expectations of tive forum; it was not a decision-making body. Government in environmental matters have The amendments to the Act in 1980 did advanced quite significantly. As a consequence, nothing to improve the situation-it the 1971 Act, although a credit to the Tonkin languished for want of a purpose, and the coun- Government, has become obsolete and is in cil is best abolished. 3524 3524ASSEMBLY]

As I indicated earlier, the authority is to re- Under this Bill, the executive director of the main in existence, and its membership is to be department is the chairman of the authority. It increased to five. It will still be small enough to is sought by this method to achieve unity of be workable. The reason its membership is to purpose and priority within the organisation. be increased to five is to allow for a greater Past experience within this organisation and range of skills and expentise to be represented elsewhere would tend to indicate that this will on it. Its size will be commensurate with the be achieved. significantly increased responsibilities under Mr Blaikie: This is contrary to the view that this legislation. the environmental people expressed in relation As the member for Katanning-Roe to the manager of forests and the manager of indicated, national the authority's independence from the Minister parks being one and the same person. is explicitly enumerated in the bill-a. signifi- Mr THOMAS: I suggest the member ask cant point to which I will return shortly. them, but this is the Government's policy on this question and not necessarily theirs. The 1971 Act made the Chairman of the En- Mr Blaikie: I know it may well be the vironmental Protection Authority concurrently Government's policy, but I believe that in time the Chairman of the Environmental Protection it will be proved wrong. Council and the permanent head of the depart- ment. At the time, that was the subject of criti- Mr THOMAS: We have experienced both cism by people who were dissatisfied, after its models and people have been unhappy with first few years of operation, with decisions decisions made under both. However, it is de- made by the Government on the recom- monstrably the case that with a separation of mendation of the authority. priorities and roles- Mr Blaikie: But each decision-making body The subsequent separation of those two was at least completely autonomous. You are roles-that is, head of the department and proposing to make them one and the same. chairman of the authority-was also the sub- Mr THOMAS: They are quite separate in ject of criticism from people who were un- terms of function, but in terms of the identity happy about decisions made then and this indi- of the individual who is the executive officer of cates that the earlier criticism was misdirected. the department and the chairman of the auth- Of course, people who were unhappy with the ority they are the same. The independence of decisions that had been made tended to say the authority from the Minister is quite clearly that too much power was given to the one per- outlined in the legislation. son and if there had been a separation of the two bodies they may have been given a differ- The undertakings given in the campaign for ent decision. the February election included a promise that in the new environmental legislation there The fact is that there will always be people would be a statutory basis for environmental who are unhappy with decisions made by any impact assessment. As I indicated earlier, the decision-making authority, and it may well be Bill fulfils that promise. The concept of en- the case that they will concentrate their atten- vironmental impact assessment is well estab- tion on some aspect of the structure that has lished in environmental legislation worldwide. made the decision, rather than the decision it- Essentially, the notion is that the proponent of self. a proposal or project is responsible for enumerating environmental impacts and That was the cause of the criticism of the fact managerial techniques which will be necessary that the one person was chairman of the auth- to minimise any adverse impacts. The docu- ority and head of the department. The sub- ments so produced are often known as environ- sequent separation after the 1980 amendments mental impact statements. The environmental precipitated other problems that were not impact statement is then subject to public scru- thought of when people were suggesting that tiny and Government assessment. On the basis there perhaps ought to be a separation of those of that process, the project is either approved two roles. Essentially, there was a separation of subject to conditions which may be necessary priorities. Within any large organisation, par- to reduce environmental impacts to an accept- ticularly in the public sector, there tend to be able level or it may well not be approved at all. teritorial struggles which, in this case, were Under the current legislation in this State counterproductive to the aims of each of the there is no statutory requirement for environ- organ isations. mental impact assessment. The only legislative [Thursday, 23 October 1986])52 3525 or statutory requirement for environmental im- the States are not prepared to enact legislation pact assessment operating in this State is which requires environmental impact assess- imposed upon us by Commonwealth legis- ment, they are not in a position to complain lation. I dwell for a moment on the history of about the Commonwealth doing so or about that legislation because it was mentioned decisions that may be made under the Com- earlier by other speakers. The history of the monwealth legislation. legislation at the Commonwealth level to a re- When the member for Vasse spoke last week markable degree parallels the history of en- he had a few kind words to say about people vironmental legislation at State level. who were involved in environmental protec- In 1972 the defeat of the McMahon Govern- tion in this State. Generally, I concur with the ment ended an even longer period of Liberal- comments that he made, but add to those he Country Party rule than did the election of the mentioned a few more names of people who Tonkin Government almost two years earlier. deserve credit for work in that field about that Like the Brand Government the realisation of period. After Moss Cass, Hon. Joe Berinson the importance of the environment came late was Minister for the Environment in the to the McMahon Government. The Federal En- Whitlam Government. He showed much prom- vironment portfolio was created only on 31 ise as a Minister for the Environment. It can be May 1971, about six months before the seen from statements that he made he was McMahon Government was defeated. Thus it developing some fine policies in that area. was for only about six months out of 23 years Unfortunately, the last six months of that that the Liberal Government had had a Minis- Government was a time when matters other ter for the Environment. Mr Peter Howsen be- than protection of the environment were para- came that Minister. In addition to being Minis- mount in the Government's considerations and ter for the Environment he was also Minister Hon. Joe Berinson did not have enough scope for the Arts and Minister with responsibility to prove his skills in that area. He has for Aborigines. He was the most junior mem- subsequently had to prove his ministerial skills ber of the Ministry and the portfolio was a non- in another field at the State level, and I think Cabinet one. he has done very well. If the performance of Mr Parker: He was the guy who was involved Hon. Joe Berinson shows that former Ministers in the air scandal too, wasn't he? for the Environment can make very good At- torneys General, the case of the late Senator Mr THOMAS: That is right. He was de- Ivor Greenwood curiously enough indicates moted to being the Minister responsible for the that the reverse is also the case; former At- arts, Aborigines, and the environment, so they torneys General can make good Ministers for were not given a very high priority. the Environment. When the Whitlamn Government was elected I note the role of Ivor Greenwood in this at the end of 1972 it accorded a higher priority particular area. He was the successor to Joe to the environment and Dr Moss Cuss was Berinson as Minister for the Environment given the portfolio. when the Whitlam Government was defeated Mr Rushton: He was a disaster. at the end of 1975. Ivor Greenwood had been a Mr THOMAS: I do not think he was. When singularly undistinguished Attorney General, the member for Dale has heard what I have to and when he was appointed to the Environ- say in that respect, he might agree with me. ment portfolio many people were not particu- larly pleased. They did not expect a good Min- Dr Cass deserves a great deal of credit for the ister. However, he developed into a very good fact that he introduced the Environmental Pro- Minister and it is unfortunate that he died so tection (Impact of Proposals) Act 1974. That early. He resigned in July 1976 and sad to say was the first legislation in Australia that made he died some months after that. However, dur- environmental impact assessment a statutory ing the time that he was responsible for that requirement. portfolio he was a very good Minister for the Mr Blaikie interjected. Environment. Mr THOMAS: People may well have I illustrate that with a story. During that questioned some decisions that he made. Many period some correspondence fell off the back of conservative State politicians and indeed a truck and ended up in my hands, among Labor politicians have felt that the responsi- others. It was correspondence between the then billity for the environment should lie with the Premier of Western Australia, Sir Charles States, but it is a matter of put up or shut up. If Court, and the then Prime Minister, Malcolm 3526 3526[ASSEMBLY)

Fraser. The Premier of Western Australia was sentially State powers. For that reason it should complaining about the fact that Government be the responsibility of the State to protect the prants were being given to the Australian Con- quality of the environment. However, that re- servation Foundation which had the temerity sponsibility cannot be carried out effectively to criticise some of the policies of the State unless there is legislation which goes to some- Liberal Government. The Premier suggested thing as basic as environmental impact assess- that Federal grants should be withdrawn from ment. This Bill does precisely that. the Australian Conservation Foundation and Mr Blaikie: The sovereign rights of the States also that the Commonwealth should do some- must be regarded. thing about the Environmental Protection (Impact of Proposals) Act. Mr THOMAS: The sovereign responsibilities of the State must be exercised, and if a vacuum The correspondence I saw indicated that Ivor left a situation is created in which it is Greenwood was strong is in defending the inde- judicially and politically possible for another pendence of the Australian Conservation Foun- jurisdiction to occupy it. dation. He was not prepared to be party to withdrawing funding to silence critics of the Under this legislation there is comprehensive Government and he was a very zealous sup- provision for environmental impact assess- porter of the continuing operation of the legis- ment, the details of which were mentioned by lation. my colleague, the member for Gosnells. I think Subsequently, it was not Ivor Greenwood these are very commendable. One of them is a who signed it, but, on my understanding of the requirement which allows any member of the circumstances, essentially it was his agreement public to refer a proposal to the authority and which was reached between Kevin Newman, request environmental impact assessment. That is a very desirable feature of the legis- his successor as Federal Minister for the En- vironment, and Graham Mac~innon who had lation because it means anyone who is likely to become State Minister for the Environment in be affected by a particular proposal can ask to the Court Government. They made an agree- have that proposal subjected to assessment. ment between the State and the Common- I anticipate that some people may say that is wealth for the use of environmental review and not necessarily a desirable situation, and that it management plans to satisfy the Common- could lead to the equivalent of frivolous liti- wealth legislation- That agreement essentially gation or be used for purposes which are not still stands today. responsible. However, ample safeguard is built To return to the role of the State and the into the legislation to protect the community at Commonwealth: Under the agreement between large and developers from that type of situ- the State and the Commonwealth, ERMPs or ation; that is, there is an ultimate appeal to the State documents, required essentially by execu- Minister on the level of assessment. live provision, are used to satisfy Federal legis- If a developer is concerned that there might lation. In practical effect, we are acting under be frivolous recourse to the authority to subject delegated Commonwealth legislation. Quite a proposal to environmental impact assess- clearly, that is an unsatisfactory situation. ment, the first safeguard is that the authority, Mr Rushton: You realise that the Common- under its powers, can dispose of the matter if wealth tried to knock off the Mt Henry Bridge an assessment is not regarded as warranted. with those powers; there was a very unsatisfac- However, if the authority were, in the percep- tory Commonwealth-State relationship on that tion of that proponent of the project, to require issue. a degree of assessment which the proponent does not feel is appropriate, at that stage there Mr THOMAS: No. Was an environmental is scope for appeal to the Minister that the review and management plan published? authority is acting unreasonably. Mr Rushton: That was our friend, Hon. Tom Uren. Ample safeguards are built into the legis- lation, not only for members of the public who Mr THOMAS: We are suggesting that there might wish to refer matters to the authority, should be State legislation so that these things but also for proponents and developers. I can be properly evaluated. suggest to the House that the proposed pro- The powers for environmental protection are visions for environmental impact assessment essentially State powers. The powers to protect are highly appropriate and very commendable. the quality of the air and the water, and to One further major strategy for enhancing en- manage forests and other Crown lands are es- vironmental protection contained in the legis- [Thursday, 23 October 1986])52 3527 lation is the statutory provision for environ- or policing them rather than a judicial power to mental protection policies. Notionally the apply set standards in a court-type function. power for this is contained in the 1971 Act, but It is not appropriate that environmental de- the practicality of implementing it is such that cision-making of this nature be undertaken by the power has never been able to be exercised. the judiciary. In fact, it is a responsibility of These powers provide an efficient means of Government to undertake the policing func- setting down general policies which would ap- tion, and of the Parliament, Government and ply over specified areas within their terms to subsidiary bodies to prescribe environmental protect the environment. They provide a very standards in this Bill. The only place in which necessary form of delegated legislation which is any judicial analogy is appropriate is the inde- simply not available at the moment. For that pendence of the authority. This legislation ex- reason it is currently very difficult to have gen- plicitly provides that the Environmental Pro- eral policies which might, for example, pre- tection Authority is not subject to ministerial scribe levels of emission to contain pollution direction. In addition, the Bill contains explicit or, as the member for Gosnells indicated, pro- provisions for public scrutiny. Virtually every tect a particular area, such as Cockburn Sound step of the authority's formulation of advice or a particular type of area, such as wetlands. and rendering of advice to the Minister is sub- ject to public scrutiny. Effectively all the advice It is desirable that this power be available rendered to the authority and submissions and that safeguards be written into the legis- made to it, subject to the agreement of those lation to make sure that those powers are making the submissions, is open to public scru- exercised in a manner consistent with the pub- tiny. The Bill thereby ensures that the Minister lic interest, and that members of the public will be unable to direct the authority with re- have an opportunity to make submissions. gard to its functions. Ultimately, the Minister has to approve their enactment or otherwise. Where the judicial analogy is appropriate, in that the authority should be able to render ad- There is further protection in that they are vice to the Minister without fear or favour, this delegated legislation for the purposes of the In- is provided for. However, it does not go to the terpretation Act and hence subject to the step of providing a judicial model, which powers of disallowance of this Parliament. would not be appropriate. Finally, there is the strategy to consolidate Essentially we are talking about political de- pollution control which, again, is very desir- cisions. The Minister is a politician and is able. Many of the powers which previously elected, the Government is elected and, existed to control pollution under other legis- ultimately, it should be in the political process lation were set up for reasons other than con- that responsibility for these decisions is sheeted trol of pollution and that has been an inciden- home. That is precisely what this legislation tal feature. In this day and age it is entirely provides. appropriate that pollution control be I have no hesitation in commending this Bill consolidated. to the House. I believe it represents a very In terms of the provisions for consolidated substantial improvement on the environment pollution control, making a statutory basis for legislation in this State. environmental impact assessment and making MR LEWIS (East Melville) [3.30 p.m.]: I(feel provision for environmental protection poli- a little like the member for Katanning-Roe in cies, this Bill very clearly is a significant ad- not perhaps being as aware of the environment vance on the 1971 Act, which is currently on as is the member for Welshpool, who has just the Statute book and which it seeks to replace. made a very good contribution to the debate. I wish to speak to another very important However, I feel the environment is something aspect of the Bill; that is, the provision for the one observes, feels, and knows about. A lot of Minister's having ultimate power in most areas commonsense needs to be brought to bear on contained within this legislation. Some of the the way the environment is regulated, how it is proponents of environmental legislation have perceived, and the ordinances and legislation sought a quasi judicial structure, independent used to protect it. of Government, to make those decisions. In That brings me to the point which has been this area we are not talking about a judicial emphasised before, that the powers manifest function, but powers which are essentially legis- within this legislation are indeed very strong lative and executive; that is, setting standards and possibly override many other Acts. If we 3528 3528ASS EM BLY I think about why Acts, by-laws, and regulations To highlight that point, I know the Minister are made, we realise they are generally made is very much aware that in my electorate the for people who transgress and for fools. If little area called Alfred Cove is people do the proper thing with regard to the environmentally very sensitive. Its ecology, environment, those by-laws, regulations, and flora and fauna are very delicately balanced. Acts, will not need to be implemented. Birds come from the northern hemisphere every year to feed, nest, and breed in Alfred Some skill will have to be exercised in the Cove. I am very conscious of the environmen- management of this legislation. It comes back tal importance of that area. to the members of the authority and the officers who are appointed. They must be a Some five or six years ago, the Melville City very well-balanced and impartial body of Council, in its wisdom, pursuing a policy of people to administer and manage this legis- allowing all people to enjoy the environment of lation. the foreshore, constructed a cycleway along a disused road reserve. The point of view was In the past it has been impossible for class expressed that that cycleway should be re- action to be taken against town planning ordi- moved because it was upsetting the environ- nances. The enactment of this legislation will ment; the birds, the flora, and fauna. I make mean that class actions can be pursued on the the point that humans, flora, and fauna can live basis of the definition of pollution, which is a together. If human beings cannot enjoy that very broad and all-embracing definition, If sharing, perhaps we cannot have it at all. someone, whether vexatiously or not, considers a certain action to constitute pollution, he has a We must have a balance in the environment. lawful night to object and that objection can be It is nonsense to exclude human beings from considered. the environment. That is an example of the way in which groups can go too far. This Bill vests very great powers in the pub- As members may know, I am a surveyor by lic. Under previous town planning ordinances, profession. In that regard I have a great affinity land use has specifically been prescribed after with native forests, the savannah, and indeed due consideration, advertisement, and pro- the outback. No-one knows better than I the cedures governed by the town planning stat- tranquillity of nature in its raw form. With that utes. As I understand it-and if I am wrong I understanding, I am sure members of the would like to be corrected-under this legis- Government are aware that there are extrem- lation a third person with no legitimate interest ists on both sides who do not take into account can make an objection after the land use has a balance whereby, by virtue of living, we have been prescribed, thus delaying development on to use the resources of the earth, whether they that parcel of land. The powers exist in the Act are timber, mining, the extraction of salt or to allow that to happen. whatever, and a certain desecration of the en- I accept that this is a difficult subject. A per- vironment will ensue. son in the community may have a legitimate Mr Rushton: Surveyors were the original objection. In his eyes a development may rep- conservationists. Look at Lord Forrest and resent pollution, or action against the environ- Kings Park. ment. How does one balance these objections with the right of a person who owns a property Mr LEWIS: I think the member for Dale is zoned for a specific purpose? Someone may be right. We must have a balanced view. Re- in a situation of having commenced develop- sources must be used for the progress of man- ment, hut his rights may be abrogated in the kind. There are extremists on both sides. Those long term because of a determination by the who want to desecrate, rape, and take, and not Minister after appeal. I make those points to replace and replant are just as bad as those who show the absolute power that this legislation favour an entirely hands-off approach without has in regard to class or third party actions. any understanding that we must have farms and clear land, and mine our resources for the Let us also not forget that man, as a human sake of the economy and so that people may being, is part of the environment. Quite often have a reasonable standard of living. That is we find that the environment is perceived as the balance we must try to achieve and that is those creatures who live in it. Perhaps the why it is so important that the people dominant character, mankind, has forgotten appointed to the Environmental Protection that he exists within that environment. There Authority have a wide understanding and come must be a balance of understanding. from a broad spectrum of our society. [Thursday, 23 October 19861 352952

I welcome this legislation. It is a long time Of course, we must balance human and en- since the Act has been substantially amended, vironmental needs. I would like to think that and maybe 15 years is too long. Notwithstand- somewhere in the process of rationalising de- ing that, I believe the old Act has done quite a velopment with the environment there is a very good job in many ways. It has been criticised close understanding between the Environmen- for not having enough power and there has tal Protection Authority and local authorities. I been legitimate cause for concern, because the suppose it becomes an arbitrary situation ability for the Environmental Protection Auth- whereby a local authority views a plan of a ority to take appropriate action at the appropri- development, considers it, believes that it con- ate time is probably not there. Maybe this is forms in all ways, and issues permits; then manifested by developments like the casino, someone comes along and the whole thing which some people believe for environmental stops. Where is that element of communication reasons should not have been put where it is. I written within the legislation? Who decides, suppose the Environmental Protection Auth- and at what time, when an application should ority really did not have the ability to say be referred to protect the developer, or when it "No", whereas this legislation does have the does not have to be referred? I do not believe- ability to hold a situation. I may be wrong-that the legislation prescribes Mr Rushton: It really hasn't. The Minister these matters clearly enough. Maybe regu- lations should be brought in to determine these has the power to say "No". situations more clearly, for the reasons I have Mr LEWIS: Sure. Talking about holding a already given, and I refer especially to the situation, I have another fear, although I do not financial viability of projects. This Bill will re- want to sound negative. With all development, quire a very strong set of regulations because it time is usually of the essence. If someone is contains an ability for arbitrary decisions to be building a factory, or a block of shops, or a made. A clear and unequivocal course should small block of home units and has poured the be plotted by way of regulation so that people footings and the brickwork is halfway up, and a who wish to develop land and so on know certain body of people who live across the road where they are going without being stopped do not like the shape the new building is taking, halfway through or being mucked around gen- notwithstanding the zoning they can erally. legitimately object. Knowing the workings of Government as I do, and having sat on Government boards, I know that it may be six, In these times society should not accept dirty eight, or 10 weeks before a decision is made by industry. In the past industry wantonly the Minister to uphold an appeal and the devel- desecreted our environment and has not taken opment is allowed to proceed. the necessary steps to reconstitute and reaffor- est the areas it has disturbed. The legislation What worries me is that during that time the goes a long way towards ensuring that will not developer's funds can be very severely impac- happen and contains powers to prevent its ted upon, and the whole viability of the project happening. On the other hand, there is a cer- can be put at risk. Indeed, he could be forced tain rigidity within the legislation and we do into financial ruin. I am not being critical in not want legislation so rigid that nothing will any way of the decisions of the Government ever happen because the up-front costs of get- concerning the goings-on at Scarborough, but ting ERMPs and all the necessary approvals in the Spindrifter development is a manifestation place, and the time span to put all these ap- of where Government bodies can get tied down provals in place, are so great that the small with bureaucratic proceedings. developer simply does not have the resources Mr Rushton: They were political decisions. to proceed. I would not like to see a situation in which the only people doing things in society Mr LEWIS: Yes, but I do not want to be are large corporations and developers who have critical. I am trying to give an example of how the huge resources and who therefore end up we can get tied down with bureaucratic pro- with a monopoly. cedures so that nothing happens for months, with the result that, because of the financial situation and changes in the financial environ- As well, this legislation has the ability to cre- ment-and even changes in the mood of the ate a bureaucratic monolith, and a great people or a market downturn-the doers out amount of prudence must be exercised to en- there who want to get on with developments sure that a huge bureaucracy does not develop are put at severe risk. to administer the Act. 3530 3530[ASSEMBLY)

,Until 1971, our environment, in the main, I must remind the Government that the Gov- was protected by local authorities. The regu- ernment itself finally severed the relationship, lation relating to health, vermin, and refuse and he was no longer the chairman of this and collection comes under the protection of the that board and also the chief executive of the environment in its basic form. There is an op-. department. It started with the Liberal Govern- portunity within this legislation-as the local ment and was pursued with the Labor Govern- authorities presently regulate the Health Act- ment and rightly so. So the chokce has to be for the local authorities to be given the ability exemplary and a great amount of caution must and a certain amount of autonomy to regulate be exercised when choosing a person for that the environment rather than a huge bureauc- very powerful position. racy being built up and taking into its own right I have certain reservations about the pol- the responsibility of administering this legis- lution control clauses in the Bill. The Bill pre- lation. scribes that where waste leaks are reasonably expected to gain access, people can be One must look at the definition of the word prosecuted. I believe that is an infringement of' "environment". The environment has such a natural justice. If something is thought to have broad and all-encompassing description. It happened, a person may be prosecuted for it. means virtually anything, as does the word 1 An infringement should happen before a per- "Pollution" . Great care of management must son can be prosecuted. be taken in the exercise of this Bill. I believe the definitions of environment and pollution Within the pollution clause there is also a should be amended a little to give some reserve section that says if machinery causes pollution, to the ultimate power to decide what is pol- a person may be prosecuted. I do not believe lution, a judgment which can vary according to anyone should be prosecuted unless that ma- the eye of the beholder. Someone who does not chinery does pollute by way of noise. By virtue like the way his neighbour paints the front door of a person's having a machine in his workshop of his home may believe that person is pollut- that has, for example, the noise abatement de- ing the environment. We do not want that sort vices, mufflers, removed from it, that person of nonsense. The legislation is not meant to should not be able to be prosecuted just be- cater for that. Because of the definitions within cause an inspector calls on that person and de- the Bill that nonsense could ensue. cides he can prosecute because that machine can pollute. We should look at amending that I have a fear concerning the power that the situation to say that only when actual noise Chairman of the EPA has in also being the pollution happens, should prosecution be con- chief executive officer. I have some experience sidered. in planning. I recall that a previous Com- Within the legislation there is the ability for missioner of Planning was also the Chairman an occupier to be prosecuted. There is no de- of the Metropolitan Region Planning Auth- fence where malicious or third party action has ority, the Chief Executive of the Town Plan- occurred. In other words, a proprietor of an ning Department, and Chairman of the Town establishment may have an operation in hand Planning Board. Without being unkind in any and a person may maliciously tamper with that way, because he was a very good officer, but his operation and cause pollution. The Bill lacks a ideology prevailed absolutely and the reports provision to allow the presentation of a defence that would come forward to the Town Planning against that malicious tampering charge and he Board and the Metropolitan Region Planning can be legitimately prosecuted. The Bill should Authority were so couched in his thinking that be revised because that tampering may be done only his ideology and his direction to that de- by an aggrieved employee and cost the pro- partment were brought to those boards. The ducer or manufacturer a considerable sum and boards in their considerations and determi- cause him great concern. nations went down the trail in which he led Mr Hodge: Anyone who causes pollution to them. occur can be prosecuted. What I am suggesting is that the same per- Mr LEWIS: But the Bill does not prescribe a son-being the chief executive officer and also defence if someone maliciously tampers with the chairman of the authority-has great power an operation in order to cause pollution. and will have the ability, via the minutes and Some clauses give the chief executive officer the reports, to influence the board to follow his the power to demand things to be done without philosophy. negotiating or discussing the matter with the [Thursday, 23 October 19861 353133 manufacturer or proprietor. That is a far- I think it was the member for Welshpool who reaching power. The proprietor of a business is illustrated that difference in his comprehensive in a better position to understand the workings and, I found, interesting, address in respect of of his organisation. So, there should be an this Bill. The pastoral industry with which I ability for the executive officer to order things have been involved for IS years has, by and to be done, but only after negotiation and con- large, had a very sensitive approach to the sultation with the person whose operation may preservation of the environment, notwith- or may not be causing the pollution. The con- standing its ability to perhaps denigrate aspects sultation should be stipulated in the Bill rather of that. However, I know of no pastoralist, for than having the chief executive officer being instance, who does not take great delight in the able to say, "You do this", or "You do that", preservation and the observation of our native because that would not have the approval of fauna-flora to a lesser degree, but fauna in the manufacturer or be compatible with how particular plays a great part in the lives of the his operation works. Generally, I think there pastoralists in this State. For example, I believe has been a solid effort to bring environmental that there are more kangaroos now, although management into line with modemn day think- some species may be more deprived today than ing. I agree that the Bill, to a large extent, has they were some years ago, in the "inside some merit. country" as it is known, the farming areas in- land, where by necessity kangaroos and other MR LIGHTFOOT (Murchison-Eyre) [4.00 indigenous animals have suffered to some de- p.m.]: I rise not to speak entirely against the gree. Although this environmental protection Bill, although like my colleagues who spoke be- legislation will protect them dramatically, fore me, I have some reservations about it kangaroos have proliferated more in recent which I wish to express. years than ever before. For instance, within the It is a comprehensive Bill which is designed pastoral industry, which covers almost half the to replace a functioning Act. Under the present State, there are water supplies every five square Act, 1, and the industries with which I have miles whereas, generically speaking, there were been involved-the pastoral industry and the no permanent water supplies sometimes for mining indlustry-have found it difficult to hundreds of miles in the past. This has allowed maintain a continuity in those industries at the proliferation of kangaroos, and I do not know any pastoralists who would same times over the years. In fact it has been wantonly go often said that if the present Act had been in out and slaughter kangaroos today. farce in the 1960s, some mining ventures That is one aspect of this legislation. There which are currently contributing to the State's are many marsupials that pastoralists also pay and the nation's export income would not have attention to, and I hope that this legislation got off the ground. I can think of one instance does not make it difficult for pastoralists and in respect of the nickel mine at Kambalda station people to maintain their interest where there were, I believe, seven authorities to because of the wide powers given to the which application had to be made before an Minister and the Chairman of the EPA and Act could be set up to govern the Western indeed-and most disconcerting of all-to Mining venture there. Today I believe that one inspectors who arc proposed to be appointed would need to go through about 40 depart- and given very substantial powers under this ments if that same mine were to be established. Bill. I would just illustrate the latter by refer- ence to section 89 (l) which reads- If this Sill expedites the process of appli- cations by exploration and mining companies 89. (1) An inspector may with such as- to the stage where they can mine and exploit sistance as he may require enter- the minerals that they have found, I would say and this is the disconcerting bit- it would be a good Bill, but I have those doubts. Within my electorate and within my own vo- (a) at any time any premises used as a cation, I represent the pastoral industry. This factory or any premises in which an legislation does have some effect and will have industry, trade or process is being car- some effect on that industry. There are many ried on; things I would like to question and perhaps in An inspector may enter premises, not at a the Committee stage I will do so. It seems to reasonable time, hut at any time. I found that me that there will be-and there has been and section worrying in respect of, say, the pet meat will always be-a conflict between miners, pas- industry, the live goat industry and the export toralists and environmentalists. of sheep and so on. Inspectors can enter prem- 3532 3532[ASSEMBLY] ises. in which an industry, trade or process is standard of living, which has slipped so badly being carried out. Those are very wide powers. in world terms in the past decade, and the pro- They cover not only factories, but also farm tection of the environment. holdings, paddocks, and shearing sheds and so I would like the Minister's reassurance that on. I would like the Minister to reassure me this Bill in no way will impede the natural and that this power will not be abused or that there logical progression of the mining industry. I is something within the rest of the Bill that know the industry has not been perfect over the would counter or neutralise that particular as- years, but its imperfections have often-almost pect which worries me and will worry the always-been judged with hindsight. We can people whom I represent in this House. say we should have done this and that, and I do Mr Blaikie: I just wonder whether the police, not suppose that any Bill introduced here will or the people involved in drug surveillance alter the fact that we will still be able to say, "I have the same extreme opportunity. wish we had done it this way". I do not want to Mr LIGHTFOOT: I would have thought not. have to say, "I told you so", if our standard of I thought the powers under this Bill proposed living and export income drops and as a result to be given to inspectors-and I have not the people of Western Australia pay a large looked at the definition of inspectors but I do price for pandering to a high-profile minonty not think that they would be anything special of people in this State. or that they would inherit their powers-are It is bad enough that the mining industry in the widest possible powers that one could im- Western Australia bears an iniquitous taxation agine. I am sure that ordinary Western impost, Federal and State, and contributes 75c Australians, like myself, would find it of every dollar it earns. Despite that, it is still disconcerting that inspectors should have such our biggest export earner. I do not want to see wide powers. this Bill harm that record of our premier and The pastoral industry does not provide, as it great industry. We have very stringent used to do, a great number of people to the guidelines in the industry which are often hard Parliament. Therefore it does not have the pol- to comply with because of their physical de- itical clout that some industries now do, or in mands or because of the fiduciary restraints fact that it had in the past. I believe I am now that are sometimes necessary in the rehabili- the only active pastoralist member in both tation of some open cuts which are so prevalent Houses of Parliament today but I would like to today in the goldfields. continue to speak for those people and, not- For instance, the mining industry has to withstanding the lack of representation ini re- comply with the Aboriginal Heritage Act. I am spect of numbers, I hope, sincerely, that this not opposed to that Act, but it gets out of hand matter may be looked at by the Minister. sometimes. In today's issue of The Australian I would now look at an aspect of the mining there is an article which refers to the so-called industry-that premier industry, which earns "Dreamntime problem" with the $8 million gas more export dollars for this nation than any pipeline which the Government is bringing other industry. I might say that mining not only south so the one million people in this city can earns more dollars for this State than any other enjoy a better way of life than perhaps those industry hut also, per capita, it earns this State people living further east in the goldfields. The more than any other State. Western Australia final payment of $ 100 000 by the Government has less than 10 per cent generically-in makes a total payment of $500 000 towards the rounded figures we have perhaps eight per cost of the dispute over the so-called "Wagyl" cent-of the nation's population, yet we are spirit which rests in a creek. fast approaching the point where we will be These are the sorts of things all Western earning 25 per cent of the nation's export in- Australians pay for, whether they believe in the come. benefits of this so-called dreamntime row which I hope that this increase, which has been has already cost the Government of the State shown over the last six years, is not impeded or and the people $500 000. These figures seem to otherwise hailed by this Bill. It is one thing to go on and on under this Government. have an environment which is acceptable to all Among the other things that the industry has people-and heaven knows, I want a good en- to suffer, and I think it is reasonable, is that vironment to live in for myself and my chil- any disturbed earth relating to costeans on the dren; I do not want a second-rate environ- surface of the land as a result of exploration ment-but there must be a balance between the must be restored to a safe condition before one [Thursday, 23 October 19861 333533 can mine. If directed by the mining engineer, hands of able and reasonable men. The same they should be backfilled. The mining engineer powers can be used by unreasonable and dis- we have in the eastern goldfields is particularly criminatory men, and they can be abused. That goad. He grew up in the fields, and understands is what I am worried about. Perhaps the Minis- the problems of mining; he weighs up the prob- ter will be kind enough to tell me how this Bill lemn but listens with respect to the many points will act to expedite a "one-stop shop" for the raised by people in the area which allows mining industry. people in Perth who make up 80 per cent of the In the 1960s there were seven departments to population of Western Australia to maintain which one had to apply for approval to carry their standard of living. By no stretch of the out mining operations and now there are 40 imagination could it be said that Perth is self. departments. That is ridiculous and ludicrous. supporting. It needs places like Kalgoorlie and It is time wasting and costs all Western Norseman, and the other mining towns like Australians in downtime. Sometimes there is a Leonora, Laverton, and Leinster, as well as the stan-up time of five years in some industries, support from farming areas, to maintain the particularly base metal industries. Thank way of life in Perth. heavens gold mining is a little quicker than that We also have to move all waste materials, because of the known geology and the history, rubbish, equipment and temporary buildings. I and because we have had a good Mines Depart- think that is fair enough, too. That is provided ment which offers help and assistance to people for in the present Act. Topsoil must be re- like me and others involved in the industry. moved prior to open-pit mining, and 90 per The downtime with respect to opening a cent of the goldmines opened or reopened in goldmine is much less than for base metal this decade are open pit or open cut. They are mines and much less than for highly populated not underground mines. It entails the removal States like Victoria and New South Wales. of topsoil ahead of the mining operations, and I do not want to think that this Bill will it has to be stockpiled and then replaced ac- enhance the power of the lunatic fringe. I think cording to the directions of the district mining members know whom I mean when I say engineer. that-that limp-wristed, hollow-chested, We have an excellent, understanding mining pseudo-academic type who, pursues the en- engineer. Should that change, and the vironmental issues. or environmentalists, the so-called "ecoinuts" Dr Lawrence interjected. greenies get control of the bureaucracy, as they have in some public welfare departments, we Mr LIGHTFOOT: I am sorry if the cap fits would suffer greatly because discretion on the some members opposite. That remark was defi- granting of a licence to exploit an area of nitely not aimed at the members for Victoria mining operations rests with the district mining Park or Subiaco. I did not mean to offend the engineer. it is now proposed that that dis- member for Subiaco. cretion will go largely to the chairman of the I do not want anyone to think that it would EPA, or his powers will be increased, and the enhance the powers of those people whom I worrying pant is that the general powers go to have heretofore described. They are a very the inspectors. All topsoil will have to be vocal minority and get far too much attention, replaced. That part is quite worrying. I would particularly from the media. I think that like the Minister to reassure me that the Bill people, particularly in this House, react to the will not have a detrimental effect, particularly sort of pressure applied on them by a vocal, but on the open-cut aspect of gold mining in this minority, group. They never contribute any- State, and that it will allow the figures the thing. They are a blight on this society. Premier quoted some days ago when he said this State enjoyed greater economic growth I wish to talk briefly about the uranium de- than all others, to remain relatively accurate. posit at Yeelirrie and some of the problems That statement can be made only as a result of associated with that deposit. From memory, the efforts of the mining industry. Yeelirrie was discovered at the turn of the dec- ade in 1970. It may have been known before Mr Read: Who is the mining engineer? then but it was not realised. that it was of such a Mr LIGHTFOOT: I do not know whether I high commercial value until that time. It should mention his name, but it is Ian Loxton. turned out to be a vast, substantial deposit. It He has had a long association with the gold- had some environmental problems because of fields, and is a very able man. I think these the hysteria surrounding uranium and, as a re- powers in the Bill are good if they are in the sult, and notwithstanding that Western Mining 3534 3534[ASSEMBLY)

Corporation Ltd had spent millions of dollars lieved them. Channel Two gave them an inor- on exploration, drilling and delineating the de- dinate amount of publicity and air time and posit, and also on establishing a pilot 'plant Governments caved in to them. outside Kalgoorlie, it was not proceeded with. Successive Governments gave in to the The railway which was a possibility was not psuedo-academics whom I spoke of earlier and built and today we have this vast resource with it became a tragedy that it was never mined. an in situ value of many hundreds of millions of dollars not being exploited for Western The protests did flat achieve anything. They Australia. The environmental groups achieved did not stop the proliferation of nuclear nothing. All it meant was that south-west weapons, because there is more Uranium in the Africa Rossing and other uranium mines world than we know 'what to do with. It throughout the world were able to fill the or- enhanced the value of Riotinto Zinc Corpor- ders that Yeelin-ie was not able to fill. ation Ltd's massive mine at Rossing in south- west Africa which is the biggest in situ uranium Recently, as I said earlier, we saw the tragedy deposit in the world. The member for Mt of the Leinster nickel mine closing down. I feel Lawley and I had the pleasure of being able to that if the railway line had been put through to tour that vast facility some weeks ago and it Geraldion, 'we would have achieved many was an impressive sight. things. It is possible-even probable-that the biggest sulphide nickel deposit in the world at Successive Governments-not only Labor Leinster would have continued to be mined Governments, but also Liberal Governments- and that decentralisation which everyone caved in to the pressure of this minority vocal would agree is so desperately needed in the group comprising people who called themselves million square miles in this wonderful State of environmentalists and, as a result, Australia Western Australia would have eventuated. In- suffered and, more particularly, Western stead, we have the worst possibility and the Australia suffered because if ever a nation or a ultimate in negatives. We have seen the closing State needs to have decentralisation, it is this of Leinster. We have also seen the possible country and particularly this State. It is poss- mining of uranium at Yeelirrie not proceeded ible, also, that the nickel mining town of with. We have seen the finish of what could Leinster would still be operating today had have been a railway line to Geraldton and no Yeelin-ie been operating. decentralisation. Instead of one big town being I explain that by saying that the logistics of developed, we have seen the creation of three bringing out the nickel ore to Kalgoorlie could or four small settlements in which people live have been amortised over much higher in caravans and temporary residences and we tonnages if the Ycelirrie deposit had been have seen workers even flying into and out of operating because it is not far, in Western the area. That is not in the best interests of this Australian terms, from Leinster. It is possible State or in the best interests of decentralisation. that a railway line, which was mooted in the I did not intend to speak for so long. Hlow- early 1970s, could have been built to Geraldton ever, I wish to sum up by saying that the vast and that one large town, not two, three or four discretionary powers of the Minister and the small towns like Mt Sir Samuel, Agnew and chairman of the EPA, and the worrying, but all Veelirrie, was developed. The cost of encompassing, powers of the inspectors to be establishing one large town would have been appointed under the Bill should be curtailed. less than the collective cost of establishing The Minister should explain to the House the those three smaller towns. It did not happen measures that should be put in place in the Bill because environmentalists brought pressure to to curtail those powers, measures which could bear on successive Governments which caved be used should it become necessary. in and canned the idea. We need Governments of resolution, strength, and ability. MR RUSHTON (Dale) (4.28 p.m.]: It is my pleasure to speak to this Bill, as I have served Mr Blaikie: In my opinion, Yeelinie was an on my party's lay committee involved in the example of the result of an emotional, not en- development of environmental policies and the vironmental, consideration. examining of environmental legislation from Mr LIGHTFOQT: Yes, I think what my col- the time this type of legislation was introduced. league says is quite right- We could have I believe that what would be ideal is a biparti- handled the environmental problems. These san approach to legislation of this kind. How- anti-uranium groups said that the environment ever, the Opposition and the Government have would be damaged and the Government be- different philosophies. [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 353553

I believe this Bill reflects a socialist approach garding the environment. It will be interesting to envimonmental matters. That approach has to review the situation at the time of the next shown through in other legislation relating to election to ascertain what benefits have transport, the arts, and particularly to planning resulted from the legislation and what the introduced by this Government. We have seen Government has achieved. moves towards political ideologies, not pro- In the main, this legislation is a Committee fessional ideologies. Bill. We already have amendments on the No- I want to tell the House of my experience in tice Paper from the Minister for Environment being involved with my party's lay committee. and the Opposition spokesman on environ- I have been involved for a long time, in a prac- mental matters. However, there are other areas tical and pragmatic way, in environmental which need attention and I am sure that the issues. In local government, I also had the op- Minister will be flexible and consider the portunity to be involved in the introduction of propositions the Opposition will put forward in many environmental issues. order that the changes are made in a meaning- I will cite a case which occurred in the area in ful way. The end result will be subject to what which I live; that is, in Kelmscott and occurs in another place. However, in this place, Roleystone. When the Stevenson plan was the Government's philosophy will stand. Oppo- under consideration the late Warwick Savage sition members will have 21/2 years to observe and I were successful in having an area of the the Minister's reaction to the legislation and his escarpment protected and that has been in- ability to enact it. cluded in the regional scheme. I certainly hope I am apprehensive about the absolute power that someone does not get his hands on that of the Minister. It will be similar to the Minis- area and that it results in planning legislation ter's power in transport matters, the arts, and being brought to this Parliament. In relation to planning, but that is the Government's philos- the area in Roleystone I received many favour- ophy and the Opposition must observe how able responses from consulates in many parts that philosophy works. of the world for the action I took. In his second reading speech the Minister I thought a management scheme could be said that the Government is at arm's length introduced, but it came down to educating the from the Enviromental Protection Authority. I people who wanted to do something with the do not believe it. The Conservation Council of environment. People are the strongest force to Western Australia (Inc) and anyone interested be considered. Regardless of what legislation is in conservation matters do not believe it. I brought forward, it will not achieve good re- suggest that it would be better to have it at sults unless the people are behind it. After all, arm's length and I Will refer to this at a later they are the watchdogs. We all live in the same stage. environment and breathe the same air and it is important that these projects be considered in a The conservationists' group is large. The realistic way. Conservation Council of Western Australia has stated that there are many different groups in l am aware that in the first 31/ years that the the conservation area which are worthy of con- Labor Party was in Government, it had great sideration. These groups have reported their expectations for environmental legislation, but feelings towards the Government concerning it got into trouble with a group of people who conservation matters. When this Government were dedicated to the environment. This legis- came into office they had high expectations of lation is a practical effort on the part of the it. However, there have been many criticisms Government to try to allay the fears of this made of the Government. I refer to the group. Burswood Island Casino which was approved I state unequivocally that if the Liberal Party without an environmental assessment. We all had won the last election there certainly would know that the so-called assessment did not take have been a review of the environmental legis- place before the approval was given for the lation. I will spell out what legislation the Lib- development. eral Party would have brought to this House at I am aware that under the System 6 report, a a later stage. valuable marine park had been set aside, but The Opposition has until the next election to we all know that it has now become the observe the results of the Government's man- Sorrento marina. The Government has agement of this legislation and it will take into violated System 6. We all remember the de- account its own philosophies and policies re- bacle that occurred in relation to Farrington 3536 3536[ASSEMBLY)

Road. Legislation was not introduced to rectify small secretariat to assist in the task of this situation and it appears that it is the preparing its reports. This change would Government's intention not to handle these end the current practice whereby the same matters in a meaningful way. Departmental officers both assist pro- Members are aware that the Casuarina ponents in the preparation of E.R.M.P.'s prison site is situated on a System 6 reserve at and determine the acceptability of the final Kwinana. The conservationists and the Oppo- document. All E.P.A. appointments should sition have objected to the Government's de- be made by the Governor-in-Council, after cision. To date we have not received a satisfac- public advertisement of the positions. tory explanation regarding the proposal for a I support that position. I held that position maximum security prison at Casuarina. I be- before I received this material from the Conser- lieve it should be sited at Canning Vale. vation Council. The legislation that was put In the last day or two we have seen a good together in 1970 was deficient in this respect, example of what I call centralised Government. and that is why I said quite openly that there I refer to what has been happening at the would have to be a review of the present legis- Mosman Park marina. I am aware of the com- lation if a coalition Government came to ments which have been expressed by the locals office. We would have ensured that the EPA in regard to the Government's decision. The was at arm's length from the department. real test is that there was no meaningful consul- I pay great tribute to the people who were tation, and that is the reason for the residents' involved in starting off environmental and con- objection. servation management in this State. Dr Brian I could not believe my eyes when I read in O'Brien was a scientist of great reputation and the paper recently that various Ministers had a very good administrator. Professor Bert said that a decision had not been made. The Main was highly respected for his professional Premier was quite adamant that abilities and Mr Phil Adams was a soliditor he had made a who decision. I am led to believe that the Premier met the requirement of the legislation. actually made a decision about the Mosman Since that time we have had Professor Des Park manina and that everyone has had to fall O'Connor, Morris' Mulcahy, and solicitor, in behind him. The Minister for Transport has Athol Gibson. Since then there havi been some indicated that he had not made a decision. An new people whom I do not know. All in all we answer I received to a question yesterday was have been served very well by those people in that a jetty licence had not been issued. the EPA. The objective in setting up the EPA was to If I had been administering the Act I would have a small group of people, rather than a have made sure that everything was in order, huge department. The people involved with the that agreements had been reached, and that a EPA could use the facilities and professional jetty licence had been issued in order that the project could skills of the department. In those early days, proceed. As far as I am aware, not enough provision was made for separation foundation piles have been driven in and all of the functions of the EPA from those of the sorts of things are happening. It just shows that department. The EPA should have consisted of this Government does not have the ability to a small group of people with the ability to call administer in a sensible and practical way. It on people to assist them in reaching their deter- does not take into consideration the wishes of minations. the people. It has demonstrated the way to act in Order not to keep the confidence of the The strength of the EPA lies in its being re- people. moved from Government. I support part-time appointments because such appointments I refer to the Opposition's philosophy and mean that the appointees are not indebted to policy on environmental matters and indicate the Government in the sense that they are part the matters to which it will give attention. Be- and parcel of the one group. The strength of the fore I proceed with that I emphasise the point I EPA lies in its being at arm's length from the made about the EPA by quoting from a report Government and the department. Officers of of the Conservation Council- the EPA can call departmental officers for in- The E.P.A. must be entirely independent formation, but they are not totally dependent of the Department of Conservation and on them and they are able to advise the Environment. The Director of the Depart- Government. If Governments wish to take a ment should NOT be a member of the decision which is contrary to the EPA's E.P.A. The Authority must have its own recommendation, that is their business. I have [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 353753 always believed that the elected Government of that planning and environment matters should the day has the right to govern, but having a be worked on together so that developments watchdog like the EPA is invaluable in the which are necessary for this State should be sense that Governments are conscious of what given full consideration from both angles so as can take place. to streamline the procedure. People can seek a report from the EPA. It is We should restore the Environmental Protec- published and then Governments act according tion Authority to its position as a respected, to their wishes. A Government can defy the independent, expert body. I cannot stress that EPA recommendations-as this Government are to have confidence in the that enough. If people has a few times. However, the point is future of environmental management in this Governments are answerable to people and State, it is essential that people be selected be- that is the best protection that the people can cause of their ability and professional skills. the Conservation Council in its have. I support The EPA should consist of a small group of views in that regard. The Minister has absolute people who are totally independent of Govern- power under the legislation. That means that ment and the department. while the Government has the right to make a final decision, the EPA should be at arm's It is also our objective to ensure the effective- length from the Govenment with its own small ness of environmental review and management group of people with the ability to co-opt plans as a means of Government and public specialists, retains its independence. That is far participation in environmental management. more beneficial to the people. Many of the ground rules that were available to The Opposition believes that there needs to us with respect to planning would be a good be long-term planning. I cannot detect any pro- base on which to introduce environmental re- vision for such long-term planning in the view. People must be educated to want to do Government's legislation. Guidelines should be what is right. In this regard, great steps have established so that people can understand what been taken in the Main Roads Department. we are protecting and what should be That department became attuned to do what protected. This issue is a very complex one and was right without having to be forced to do it. I pay tribute to people who have been involved People must want to preserve a tree or a certain in evolving this approach to the environment. escarpment. The educational process plays a It is recognised that the Liberal Party, under Sir part in this regard. Any legislation we introduce David Brand, passed the first environmental will have no effect, unless that educational pro- legislation in Australia and later Liberal cess has been undertaken. Governments achieved major conservation objectives, particularly regarding national Another of our objectives is to review the parks. roles of the Environmental Protection Auth- ority, the Department of Conservation and En- Some of the utterances of the Labor Party vironment and the Conservation and Environ- with respect to changes are not true. The en- vironmental people in this State are of the ment Council with a view to combining en- opinion that this Government did not in fact vironmental protection with a minimum of bu- come up to their expectations. They had high reaucratic delays in planning. The member for hopes, but they were not realised. It can be Murchison-Eyre mentioned the one-stop shop for processing administrative approvals. That argued that it is impossible to achieve what everybody wants in this regard, but the is a very worthwhile suggestion. Government has not held to commitments and The Opposition also believes that we should promises it made on some vital issues. review the effectiveness of centralisation of I summarise some of the Opposition's Government departments concerned with con- principal objectives. I have already said that if servation and environment. I think that the we were in Government we would review the new EPA will fall apart in time because it does environmental and planning laws to coordinate not have the checks and balances that are the environmental and planning procedures associated with specialists working in their own with a view to streamlining decision-making. areas of, for example, forests, fisheries, When I was Minister for Urban Development national parks, and the environment. It is a bit and Town Planning it was my experience that like the police and traffic. We need a traffic after the MRPA had finished its research on a authority and we need a police farce. In that particular matter, some environmental person way, people involved with the traffic authority would come up with a new approach. I believe devote 100 per cent of their time to traffic. In 3538 3538[ASSEMBLY) like manner, foresters should give 100 per cent An important matter is to institute a broad of their attention to forests. strategic land use appraisal for the State, so as I go on to the next point: Limit Government to provide a framework for forward planning intervention to significant environmental and resolution of conflicts. That needs to be issues, with local issues handled by local done so that people know where we are heading government. There should be a great deal more with regard to defence, ports, and transport. delegation to local government of environmen- The next point is: Support pollution control tal matters. I am aware that local government via environmental quality standards, "best has put forward a case opposed to many as- practicable means" technology, and financial pects of the Minister's proposals. They see their incentives. I do not have time to develop that own authority being taken away. This Minister but I firmly believe in it. for Local Government stresses that the .I have niot the time to develop the remaining Government supports Jocal government but of objectives of the Liberal Party's policy. How- course everything it touches or does has the ever, they are as follows- opposite effect. Encourage a co-operative effort through the The Shire of Meekatharra has been removed Tertiary Institutions and industry to and this was brought about by the Govern- establish a Marine Resources Institute ment's legislation and its inappropriate to extend our knowledge of the ocean administration and direction towards the prin- environment and its resources. ciple of one-man-one-vote. In conjunction with local authorities, encour- age coastal management and protec- Mr Can: Firstly, it was Wiluna and not tion policies, so as to ensure optimum Meekatharra and secondly, it had nothing multi-purpose use of our beaches con- whatever to do with the changes to the electoral sistent with sound environmental system. planning. Mr RIUSHTON: Our approach would be to Ensure that adequate organisational and re- encourage community involvement through source support is provided for education, public awareness, and a high level of National Parks. responsibility and participation. We shall ob- Encourage co-operative effort through the serve how that will take place under the Tertiary Institutions to establish a de- Government's legislation. It has yet to be gree course in Parks and Wildlife proved that it will work. Management, and foster careers in The next point is: Streamline procedures this discipline. towards a "one slop" approval, with the aim of Foster a hierarchical National Park System achieving a time limit for decisions without which includes public use and enjoy- decreasing the effectiveness of environmental ment. management. I think that anybody in Govern- Review the environmental aspects of legis- ment, and certainly the Minister, would have lation such as the Conservation and experienced the situation in which there is Land Management Act so as to ensure always one more approval to get. This applies that environmental aspects of forests particularly in planning. are given adequate organisational and I can see the debacle taking place in the resource support. Mosman Park situation. We have protected the Treat waste disposal techniques as part of the river and prevented any individual from overall economic and environmental owning the shoreline; we have ensured that the issue. public can participate in the advantages of the Support the search for alternative energy river-unlike other States. We must continue sources as part of optimising our fu- to protect the foreshore and the Government ture environment. should be sensitive to what takes place in Complete and implement a State Conser- Mosman Park. However, according to the vation Strategy. Press, it is a real mess. It looks as though the That basically is a summary of the emphasis we Premier has decided the outcome and the other would have given to any legislation we members of the Government have f-allen in introduced. In the light of the experience with his plans rather than insisting upon proper gained from existing environmental legislation assessment and approvals. I understand the the Liberal Party believes that we need a bal- Minister for Transport has not yet given ap- ance in dealing with this issue. Any approach to proval for the jetty licence. environmental problems must take account of [Thursday, 23 October 19861 353953 the relationship of such problems to other legit- complaining, were contained in the previous imate concerns of our society, including: Em- legislation. ployment, economic well-being, housing, Many points were raised and I will try to transport, health, delivery and standard of pub- answer as many as I can. But, as several lic services, for example water supplies and speakers pointed out, fairly extensive debate electricity, and recreation. will take place in the Committee stage and if I So much more could be said but it is really a do not cover each and every point raised by matter of attitude. It is a question of forward members, I ask them to please draw those planning, but it means the Government must points to my attention in Committee, when I give great attention to example and education will endeavour to answer all the questions. of the public with regard to what is right in A number of members drew attention to the relation to the environment. Of course fact that I have fairly extensive amendments on opinions differ about what is right; some the Notice Paper and they expressed the hope people put emphasis on parks and reserves and that I will be flexible and accept further amend- others stress the importance of industry and ments. Everyone who knows me, knows I am feel that other things must fit in as best they infinitely flexible, fair and just, and prepared to can. listen to all reasonable arguments. It is a difficult task and I am very interested The lead speaker for the Opposition was the in what this legislation will mean to the State. member for Vasse and he spoke for a consider- We are indebted to those people who had the able time and raised a number of important early task of administering the environmental points. legislation. I suggest that Dr O'Brien was one of The member for Vasse and other speakers those people who gave a tremendous start to raised the question that the Chairman of the the State in his attitude towards management EPA is to wear two hats; he is to be the Chair- of the environment and the philosophy he man and the Chief Executive Officer of the adopted in a non-political way. EPA. The Department of Conservation and Environment, as it is known today, will have a I trust that the Minister for Conservati on change of name and will be known in future as and Land Management will not be pressured the EPA. into making political appointments. If that is the case the whole structure will fall apart be- The member for Welshpool covered this cause he will receive only one type of advice point fairly well, so I will not need to elaborate rather than a broad, practical, pragmatic advis- on it a great deal. But the fact remains that over ory group to assist him. I wish the Minister the years we have had experience of both situ- well, but I am afraid that the Bill will not func- ations. The Chairman of the EPA has been the tion as I would like it to. If the EPA were chief executive officer of the department for a separate from the management group it would number of years, and for a period we had those give those people interested in the environment roles separated. I am about to suggest it return some confidence that there was a watchdog and to its previous position. backstop to look after their interests. I am taking the advice of the former chair- man of the authority, Professor Bert Main, I wish the Minister every success in 'what he who, before he retired, recommnrded that the sets out to do and I hope he will be receptive to position of chairman should become full-time. the opinions offered in the Committee stage. The range and complexity of issues being put to MR HODGE (Melville-Minister for En- the EPA for consideration these days is such vironment) [4.59 p.m.]: I thank all members of that the Chairman of the EPA requires to be the House for their contributions to this Bill. It employed full-time. is a very complex Bill and obviously a number Obviously, if one is going to have a full-time of members have put a considerable amount of chairman, it makes sense that that person is the work into studying and researching its pro- chief executive of the department, or there will visions. However, I do not think all members be a built-in recipe for continuing tension and have done so because some of the comments problems between those two officers; that is the made have been quite wrong. Because the Bill permanent head of the department and the is complicated I can understand why members, Chief Executive Officer of the EPA. Whom is without the benefit of expert advice, may have the Government to take notice of if one has a misunderstood or not appreciated that many of permanent head of a department of the en- the powers and changes about which they are vironment in conflict with the full-time chair- 3540 3540[ASSEMBLY] man? That person should be the most senior head who will have to make a political response officer to advise the Government on environ- on those decisions. mental matters. I am very confident that this Mr House: What happens if you want to ap- move will be successful. peal? I understand one of the reasons Mr Masters, Mr HODGE: An elaborate appeal system is when he was Minister for Conservation and the spelt out in the Bill. We have tried to draw that Environment, separated the two posts, was fine line between bogging down the whole pro- confusion about the role of the permanent cess of environmental evaluation, progress and head, and that of the Chairman of the EPA. In development, as a number of members, includ- discussions a short time back I understood Mr ing the member for Murchison Eyre and the Masters to explain that that was the reason he member for East Melville, mentioned. We do made that change. not want the whole process to bog down in I have gone to great pains in this legislation endless litigation. On the other hand, in the to ensure that the role of the officer in his two 1980s, the general public of our State expects to capacities is well and truly defined. It is spelt have a proper role to play in environmental out in a way which is not included in the matters. We have tried to provide an adequate present legislation. I am confident that the system of appeals for the general public against problems which did arise at the time Mr Mas- each step in the process. ters made his change will not arise in future. The appeals process is long and fairly A number of including the member complex. It is spelt out in the Bill. I believe it is speakers, a good compromise between the endless liti- for Vasse, raised the question of the indepen- gation into which some countries have dence of the EPA. I could not agree more. I degenerated-for example the United States- think the EPA, if it to be a worthwhile is and and perhaps taking the attitude that the mem- effective advice-giver to the Government-I ber for Vasse seems to be taking, that there is a emphasise its role as giving advice-must have independence. fairly limited role for the public. One of the amendments which I notice he Many members have spoken of the EPA's has suddenly placed before the House for de- having tremendous powers to make wide- bate seeks to downgrade the role of the public ranging decisions. The EPA will be making in having a say in these matters. I would be very few decisions. It is a body which gives very strongly opposed to that, as indeed would advice. The body making the decisions will be the Government. the Government. I have spelt out quite clearly Mr House: In that appeals system is the Min- in the legislation that in almost every instance ister the final man? In other words, are you the final decision rests with the elected Govern- appealing to the Minister against a decision ment. It will take the blame or the credit, as the by case may be, for the decisions. The EPA is an the same Minister? unelected body and should not be making im- Mr HODGE: In most instances there is pro- portant decisions on environmental or devel- vision for the Minister to establish an appeals opment matters. Its role is to give advice to the tribunal, and in other instances the final de- Government. its independence is spelt out cision will be made by the Cabinet. I think we quite clearly in clause 8 of the Bill. mention the Governor in the legislation, but in reality that means the Cabinet will make the Mr House: Will it not -be making a rather final decision. large number of recommendations to the Government? Mr House: I think that is the point: The ap- peal against the decision made by the Minister Mr HODGE: Yes, it will be giving the still rests finally with the Minister. Government advice, but the Government can Mr HODGE: I do not know who the member ignore that advice; it can accept it in part or thinks should have the final say. The elected accept it in total. The final decision will rest Government of the day, as I said a few minutes with the Government-with the Minister-not with the EPA. ago, will have to take the credit or the blame for the decisions made. The public will judge The role of the EPA is to give advice. The whether they think it has made the right de- only executive role the EPA has is in pollution cision, but I do not think those important mat- control. Again the final decision as to who shall ters can be taken out of the hands of the elected be prosecuted and who shall not will always Government. We do not believe we should al- rest with the Minister. It will be the political low these important decisions on development [Thursday, 23 October 19861 354134 projects such as large mining projects which are The definition of "environment" is written so important to the welfare of the State to be to make it clear that we are dealing with the taken out of the planning process-out of the total interrelationship between living things hands of the Government. and man. The word "social" is introduced to Mr Rushton: In no way can you argue that cater for an understanding that man's needs are the EPA is at arm's length. The chief officer is not entirely restricted to physical and biological the head of both. requirements. There are social interactions which from time to time must be assessed. For Mr HIODGE: I referred before to some mem- example, in major development projects where bers doing their homework on this legislation sudden, large, and concentrated work forces are and others not. I am afraid the member for brought together-usually during the construc- Dale is one who has not done his homework on tion phase-short-term social difficulties are the Bill. The member for Katanning-Roe said it caused, particularly for remote communities. A was a complex Bill and he did not understand good example of this was the construction work it all. Hie then gave, I thought, a pretty good force brought together for the development of example of the fact that he had studied the Bill the North-West Shelf project. It was reasonable and done his homework. He raised a series of in this context for the EPA to make quite important points. The member for Dale recommendations not only on the environmen- has not studied the Bill properly because he tal implications of that proposal, but also on could not make those claims honestly if he had the socio-environmental impact of the large studied the Bill. We went to great pains to en- construction work force. However, "social" is sure the independence of the EPA. The EPA not to be read as "sociological". The EPA will will be far more independent than it is now. not be considering welfare issues or matters of This legislation spells out and guarantees that that nature. I hope that clarifies the position for independence. the members who raised that issue. We would have no interest in creating an EPA that was not independent. It is not going The member for Vasse referred also to the to serve this or any other Government well if it register to be established under clause 39, He is not seen to be independent, and if it is not seems to be under the impression that it is a credible it will be of no use. register of complaints. The member for Vasse and other speakers Mr Blaikie: No, a register of applications. referred to the word "social" in the definition of "environment". To enlighten the House, the Mr HODGE: The register is to provide a definition of "environment" was probably the public record of each proposal referred to the single most difficult issue we had to grapple EPA, and also to indicate whether the EPA has with in drawing up this difficult Bill. We spent decided to assess that proposal and the level of hours looking at alternative definitions. We assessment that has been decided upon. The looked at every other environment Act we object of the public record, or register, is to could find in Australia and, indeed, in other allow the community to know what is before parts of the world. We looked at international the authority, and if necessary to be able to treaties and studied everything in which we appeal to the Minister for him to require the could find a definition of "environment", but EPA to evaluate a project which it had for one reason or another we found nothing otherwise decided not to assess. It also provides suitable. The final definition we put into the for appeal to the Minister to have the level of a Bill is the result of exhaustive consultation and project that is being assessed increased. From discussion, and it is the best we could come up memory, it is the only occasion on which the with. Minister has any sort of control over the inde- pendence of the EPA. That is, if a proposal Mr Blaikie: Was one of the mitigating comes before the EPA and the EPA decides it reasons for your including the phrase "social should be assessed at the level of a PER, some- surroundings" so that you could encompass all one could appeal to the Minister on the development proposals? grounds that that was not a high enough level Mr HODGE: I was just going to explain that. of assessment and that because it is such a big, It was put in at a reasonably late stage of the important project it should be assessed at the long process I have just spoken about. It was level of an ERMP. That is one of the few oc- not in right at the start, but in the latter pant of casions where the Minister, if he upholds that our discussions we were convinced it should go appeal, can say to the EPA, "I direct you to in. hold a higher level evalution of that project." 3542 3542[ASSEMBLY]

Mr Blaikie: Obviously it could go the other Mr HODGE: It would become obvious to the way, too. public that the Government was not dinkumn and that the EPA could not have conducted an Mr HODGE: The Minister cannot go the appropriate assessment and given proper ad- other way-he cannot direct the EPA to hold a vice in that time. lesser standard of inquiry. I hope that clarifies Mr Blaikie: That happened in relation to the the matter. It is not radically different from the casino. present situation. In almost every instance, if any member of the public wishes to have that Mr [HODGE: The buck will stop with the sort of information they can come into the EPA Government. If we want to go ahead without and get it, although perhaps it is not as readily being advised, we can do so; but it is on our available as we hope it will be under this ar- heads. There have been instances in the past rangement. when previous Governments have done just that-they have gone ahead without advice A number of members, including the mem- and have taken the rap for it at the ballot box. ber for Vasse, raised the question of frivolous Mr Rushton: But how will the public know? referrals to the EPA, suggesting that people Mr HODGE: The public will know. While I could refer all sorts of minor projects to the am on that subject, another important point EPA and thus hold up those projects, either was raised, I think by the member for East deliberately or for vexatious or frivolous Melville. It relates to how local government reasons. In order for the EPA to make a de- authorities, other authorities, and individuals cision as to whether to make an assessment, it would knqw what to send forward to the EPA must be convinced that the project will have a for assessment. Currently there are guidelines significant effect on the environment, and I prepared by the EPA and provided to those emphasise the word "significant". This really is authorities, and revised administrative no different from the present legislation, and I guidelines and procedures will be devised and mentioned the other night to the member for provided to all local government authorities. Vasse. by way of interjection, that this is Proponents such as large companies undertak- presently provided for. It is provided for under ing developments will be able to have copies of section 56(l), and in addition sections 54 and those administrative procedures and from 55 of the present Act allow for the authority or those will get a very good idea of what is the Minister to either call in for assessment or expected of them and what will be required to have referred to the EPA town planning, be referred to the EPA. Currently Bulletin No. mining, or other proposals affecting land for 38 of the Department of Conservation and En- assessment. So we are really not making a vironment fulfils this role, so it is not a radical change there at all. departure from the present situation. The main thrust of clause 38 is to formalise The member for Katanning-Roe asked the process by which environmental reviews whether this legislation would be binding on are currently undertaken, as this is not the Crown, and I refer him to clause 4 of the provided for in the present legislation. That Bill which quite clearly states it is binding on point was covered thoroughly by the member the Crown. for Welshpool when he spoke. All Government instru mentalities will be subject to the same procedures and requ ire- A number of members raised the point about ments as private developers and others. possible delays. The Minister can ensure that there are no unnecessary delays by setting a Someone raised the question of the possi- time limit requiring the EPA to advise or re- bility of this legislation clashing with other port to him within a prescribed time. The Min- legislation. I briefly make the point that clause ister can lay down when that time shall be. 5 of the Bill is similar to section 7 of the That is a very important safeguard and I am present Act where there are inconsistencies in optimistic that it will prevent the delays that the environmental legislation. In the other Act, members fear. Centainly the Government is the provisions of the environmental legislation very conscious of not allowing unnecessary de- prevail. lays to occur. The question was raised about the abolition of the Conservation and Environment Council Mr Cowan: Put that the other way, where and it was suggested that was a retrograde step. you decide you do not want an in-depth report, Those members who suggested that do not and ask for it tomorrow. understand that the role or function the Con- [Thursday, 23 October 19861 354334 servation and Environment Council has played We did invite Local Government Associ- over the years has been minimal. ation participation during the drafting of the Bill and it did not accept our invitation. Never- Hon. Gordon Masters asked some questions theless, in Committee, we will discuss that mat- on 7 October about this matter. ter in some detail. Mr Rushton: They will be as effective as the I have covered all the major points raised by Minister encourages them to be. the various speakers. If I have overlooked any Mr HODGE: I do not think that is true. I had important points they will be raised again in a brief discussion with the chairman of this the Committee stage or during the third read- body and he said his period as chairman had ing debate. I thank all the members who made been one of the most frustrating exercises he contributions to the debate. Some of the mem- had ever had. bers-particularly the member for Welshpool-demonsirated a very comprehen- Mr Rushton interjected. sive and sound knowledge of all matters to do Mr HODGE: I was talking about Professor with the environment. I commend the legis- Parker. Looking back over the records, I be- lation to the House. lieve it has not been very different over the Question put and passed. years. At almost every meeting one of the items Dill read a second time. on the agenda was for the organisation to dis- cuss its role and function. No-one has ever In Committee been clear, righit from its establishment, about The Chairman of Committees (Mr Burkett) its role and function. It has been meeting on an in the Chair; Mr Hodge (Minister for Environ- average of only three times a year. ment) in charge of the Bill. Mr Rushton: That is why it needed Clauses I and 2 put and passed. reviewing. Mr HODGE: In the new legislation, I pro- Progress pose a new system of advisory committees. Progress reported and leave given to sit Other members have raised that point. I can again, on motion by Mr Hodge (Minister for assure them that I am very keen and enthusi- Environment). astic to provide a good, viable advisory net- work in which all the interested parties in our [Questions taken.J community can participate. House adjournedai 6. 0) p. m. 3544 3544[ASSEMBLY]

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Mr PETER DOWDING replied: (1) and (2) Before the Government's de- cision in this matter was taken, advice TOURISM was obtained from the relevant authorities with responsibility for such Windimtere Resort: Continuation matters, namely, the Department of 1323. Mr LAURANCE, to the Minister for Conservation and Land Management To urismn: and the Environmental Protection Authority. The advice received was in (1) Is the Windimere tourist resort pmoject the nature of advice to Ministers and, at Esperance still proceeding? in the normal course of events, is con- (2) If not, why not? fidential. (3) What pant did Mr Paul Regan, minis- The advice did, however, refer to terial adviser to Mr Julian Grill, play banksia, paperbark, jarrah, marri, in the negotiations surrounding this sheoak, pricklybark, and orchids being project? present on the site. Reference was made to two orchids- Mrs BEGGS replied: Diuris pudei and Drakaea jeanensis- (1) and (2) It is understood that the in- but these were not found to be itial developmental proposal is not present, although occurring on land in proceeding as a result of a lack of the neighbourhood. agreement between the developer and No detail in respect of fauna was the land owner over the sale of the provided. land. (3) Not applicable. (3) Ministerial staff are required by Min- isters to undertake a range of duties, HOUSING and more than one staff member may be involved in any one issue. Mr Rentalk Basis of Calculation Regan cooperated with the Tourism 1380. Mr BRADSHAW, to the Minister for Commission on occasions in 1985 in Housing: endeavouring to promote interest (1) Why is the rental fee for Horneswest from developers in tourism facilities homes based on 25 per cent of the in the goldfields and Esperance. How- gross wage and not the net income? ever, his particular involvement and (2) Why does a Homneswest 30-year-old that of any individual from other min- house at I8 Peet Street, Harvey, with- isterial staff on this project is not out a carport, wardrobes, floor cover- known. ings, and in a bad state of repair, rent for the same fee as a Homeswest brick WILDLIFE and tile, five-year old house with solar hot water system, built in robes, and Casuarina Prison Site carport in Preston Place, Harvey? 1347. Mr CASH, to the Minister representing (3) Why is it practice for Homeswest to the Minister for Prisons: tile concrete floors when wooden (1) Has the Government sought advice on floor-boards are left bare? the species of flora and fauna which (4) Why does the Government charge are present on Reserve No. C31874, more rent than the private Sector? which is the proposed site for the new (5) Why does not Homeswest have a maximum security prison? sliding scale for older-type houses? (2) If "Yes", will he say who provided the (6) In the projected year, the rental fee for advice and provide a detailed Homeswest houses will rise by over 20 statement on the flora and fauna be- per cent. How is this ratejustified? lieved to be present on Reserve Mr WILSON replied: No. C31874? (1) Gross income provides a consistent (3) If "No" to (1), will he provide reasons measure of income which is readily why this advice has not been sought? verifitable. [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 343345

(2) No. 18 Peet Street, Harvey is 18 years is expected to arise from the passing old and currently undergoing main- on of contractors' FBT burden. tenance. The property in Preston Way (2) It is the understanding of the State is a spot purchase house. Refer also to Government that the FBT impact fig- answer to (5). ure of $28 million has already been (3) Concrete floors require full covering transmitted to Canberra. to make them serviceable and accept- (3) The State Government has persist- able on the grounds of thermal ently made representations to comfort and appearance. Canberra on the impact of the FUT on (4) l-omeswest costs rents are well below our mining industry, particularly in equivalent market rents. remote areas. Earlier approaches were (5) Homeswest currently assesses homes partly successful in achieving a re- for rental purposes on the standard of duction of about $10 million to the accommodation provided. This classi- iron ore industry through improved fication will be further refined next FBT concessions to remote areas. year. The Premier and 1 have personally (6) Homeswest tenants pay a rent based pursued this matter in conjunction on their income up to the maximum with industry representatives. In the rent on the property. Most tenants pay light of the latest advice from the much less than the full rent which is Pilbara Iron Ore Producers' Associ- now based on the cost of providing the ation, the State Government will property and well below equivalent make further vigorous representations market rents. to the Federal Government.

TAXES AND CHARGES PRISONERS Fringe Benefits Tax: Iron Ore Industry AlcoholAwareness: Edith Hart Education 1392. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for Centre Minerals and Energy: 1406. Mr CASH, to the Minister representing (1) Is it correct that the fringe benefits tax the Minister for Prisons: is estimated now to Cost the iron ore (1) Was a contract recently awarded to section of the mining industry in the Edith Hart Education Centre for Western Australia $45 million per the purpose of educating prisoners on year? alcohol awareness at the Woo roloo (2) If so, what action is the Government Prison? planning to take to ensure that this (2) Has the course been completed? disastrous information is transmitted (3) Was the course of benefit to the pris- to the Federal Government? oners who participated and the pro- (3) What does the State Government plan fessional staff who attended? to do to assist these companies to Mr PETER DOWDING replied: overcome this impost which is severely damaging their international (1) A short-term contract was entered into competitiveness? with a sessional tutor associated with the Edith Hart Education Centre. Mr PARKER replied: (2) Yes, on 15 October 1986. (1) No. A report to assess the overall financial impact of the fringe benefits (3) Preliminary assessment indicates the tax on the iron ore industry in West- course was successful. ern Australia, prepared by the ac- counting firm of Coopers & Lybrand MIDLAND ABATTOIR SELECT and commissioned by the Pilbara Iron COMM=TEE Ore Producers' Association, estimates Inquiry: Cost that in its first full year of operation FBT on remote area conditions of ser- 1423. Mr COWAN, to the Speaker: vice will cost the five involved (1) What is the cost so far of the Select companies $28 million directly. Ad- Committee into the Midland abattoir ditional cost to the iron ore producers land sale? 3546 3546[ASSEMBLY)

(2) What were the costs of the Select as part of an overall staff review of the Committees into- Department of Agriculture to be (i) the grape growing industry; completed shortly. (ii) the Small Claims Tribunal; (iii) Bushfires; ABATTOIRS (iv) Adoption of Children Amend- Lamb: Prices ment Bill; and 1448. Mr BLAIKIE, to the Minister for (v) rural sector hardship? Agriculture: The SPEAKER replied: (1) Following the report by the Western (1) Midland abattoirs, $2 284. Australian Meat Marketing Corpor- ation that for the year 1985-86 it (2) The costs of the several Select Com- achieved a net return on hooks of mittees, inclusive of research assist- $1.68 per kg for 456 785 carcases of ance where applicable, were- local lamb and $1.45 per kg for (i) grape growing industry, $47 060; 577 263 export lamb carcases, would (ii) Small Claims Tribunal, $7 780; he provide a detailed explanation of the break-up of prices in each case, (iii) bushfxres, $37 76 1; including killing, inspection, admin- (iv) adoption, $8 745; istration, and interest charges, etc? (v) rural hardship, $38 134. (2) As the commission advised that 404 925 lambs were imported into AGRICULTURE DEPARTMENT Western Australia in 1985-86 at an av- erage price of$S 1.42 per kg, what is the Officers: JKununurra source of the information and could 1444. Mr COURT, to the, Minister for he detail the number of times assess- Agriculture: ments were made? (1) Is the Government currently Mr GRILL replied: reviewing the number of officers it has (1) 1 am advised by the Western based at Kununurra? Australian Meat Marketing corpor- (2) If "Yes", is it considering reducing its ation that this information is commer- personnel in Kununurra? cially sensitive and would seriously Mr GRILL replied: disadvantage the corporation if (1) The Department of Agriculture disclosed to its competitors. reviewed staff numbers in Kununurra (2) The average price of $1.42 per kilo for some I8 months ago at the time of the imported lamb into Western Australia Ord River review led by Mr Ian was obtained from the corporation's Johnston. As a result, the permanent marketing intelligence service, staff at Kununurra was reduced by augmented by purchasing experiences three research officers over a 12- over an 11 -month period by the mar- month period. One was a special ap- keting division of the Western pointment on sugar cane, which be- Australian Meat Commission. came redundant. One was a crop agronomist who was redeployed at HORTICULTURE Katanning earlier this year. The other was an entomologist who has been Grape Growers: Assistance redeployed in the horticultural initiat- 1450. Mr BLAIKIE, to the Minister for ive at Manjimup Horticultural Re- Agriculture: search Centre. One entomologist still (1) How many loans were- remains at Kununurra. Some associated technical officer positions (a) sought; were also redeployed as a result. (b) approved; (2) Due to a variety of circumstances, by grape growers under assistance there are temporarily a number of through the Rural Adjustment and vacancies at Kununurra. The final Finance Corporation since 30 June staff establishment will be determined 1985? [Thursday, 23 October 1986])54 3547

(2) Would he indicate the percentage of- TOURISM COMMISSION (a) applications; Office: Geraldion (b) approvals; 1459. Mr TUBBY, to the Premier: (1) Where is the Tourism Commission from each of the three major wine office in Geraldton? growing regions. i.e. (2) When did the Government first lease (i) Mt Barker; this office? (ii) Margaret River; (3) What are the current terms of that (iii) Swan Valley? lease? (4) When did the department first occupy (3) H-ow many applications have been those offices? received from the Chittering- Bullsbrook area? (5) What was the cost of establishing that office? Mr GRILL replied: Mr BRIAN BURKE repl ied: (I) (a) 2 1; This question has been incorrectly (b) 16. addressed to the Premier. It has been referred to the Minister for Tourism, (2) The Rural Adjustment and Finance and she will answer the question in Corporation administers two schemes writing. for grape growers in Western Australia. The first, the Swan Valley policy package, assists table grape SPORT AND RECREATION growers in the Swan Valley. The sec- DEPARTMENT ond, the vine pull assistance for dried Office:- Geraldeon vine and grape industry, does assist 1460. Mr TUBBY, to the Premier: wine grape growers. However, the scheme has only operated in Western (1) Where is the Department of Sport and Australia since 1 July 1986, and no Recreation office in Geraldton? applications have yet been received. (2) When did the Government first lease (3) None. this office? (3) What are the current terms of that lease? INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS OFFICE (4) When did the department first occupy Geraldion those offices? 1458. Mr TUBBY, to the Premier: (5) What was the cost of establishing that office? (1) Where is the Industrial Relations Mr BRIAN BURKE replied: Office in Geraldton? This question has been incorrectly (2) When did the Government first lease addressed to the Premier. It has been this office? referred to the Minister for Sport and (3) What are the current terms of that Recreation, and he will answer the lease? question in writing. (4) When did the department first occupy those offices? EDUCATION (5) What was the cost of establishing that Parenting Course: Distribution office? 1463. Mr HOUSE, to the Minister for Health: Mr BRIAN BURKE replied: (1) Is the Health Department involved in disseminating a "parenting course" This question has been incorrectly "A Guidebook to Teaching addressed to the Premier. it has been Parenting" to- referred to the Minister for industrial Relations, and he will answer the (a) Government schools, question in writing. (b) non-Governiment schools? 3548 3548ASSEMBLY)

(2) How many copies of "A Guidebook to (10) The document is not available for Teaching Parenting" have been sale, but can be viewed, borrowed, or printed? obtained on request. (3) What was the cost of the priming? (4) What was the cost of staff involved in HEALTH: HOSPITAL the production, writing, and research Murray District:Board for the course? (5) How many Government schools have 1464. Mr BRADSH-AW, to the Minister for applied for copies of "A Guidebook to Health: Teaching Parenting"? (1) With respect to hospital board elec- (6) How many non-Government schools tion for the Murray District Hospital, have applied for copies of "A Guide- why was Mr Colin Lane not included book to Teaching Parenting"? in the current hospital board member- ship? (7) How many Government schools have requested the services of a community (2) How did he determine that Mr Colin health nurse as part of their im- Lane should not be included as against plementation of the course? other people elected at the annual gen- eral meeting? (8) How many non-Government schools have requested the services of a com- (3) Has Mr Colin Lane been refused munity health nurse as part of their membership of the Murray District implementation of the course? Hospital Board on two previous oc- (9) Are copies of this course available on casions? request to- (4) What does he or the Health Depart- (a) parents; ment have against Mr Colin Lane to continually preclude him from the (b) parent organisations; Murray District Hospital Board? (c) citizen's groups; M r TAYLOR replied: (d) members of Parliament? (1) and (2) The appointment of members (10) Have requests for a copy of "A Guide- to the hospital board is made by the book to Teaching Parenting" by the Governor on the advice of the Minis- Catholic Education Commission been ter who, in formulating his refused by the Health Department? recommendations, must have regard Mr TAYLOR replied: for the overall management needs of (I)(a) Yes; the hospital and the interests of the community. (b) yes. Murray District Hospital services the It is an update of a course which has communities of Pinjarra, Mandurah, been available since 1969. and Waroona. In my view, the compo- (2) 750 books. sition of the hospital board should (3) $13 762 includes books and student have a balance of representatives from folders. each of these three districts. The appointment of all persons (4) Part of usual duties. recommended would have resulted in (5) 22-multiple copies each school. an imbalance in the composition of (6) 17-multiple copies each school. the Board. Accordingly, the nominee with the next highest number of votes, (7) and (8) Community nurses in-service Mr P. Friedlander, representing the all teachers who use the course, and Mandurab district, was appointed. local or schools' resource nurses are available to assist in class settings in (3) A casual vacancy in 1983 was not metropolitan and country areas. filled until the 1984 annual general (9) Copies are accessible in Health De- meeting. A similar situation to that partment libraries; arrangements can which occurred this year occurred fol- be made for perusal and temporary lowing thie 1983 nominations. loan from school resources. (4) Nothing. [Thursday, 23 October 19861 354954

TECHNICAL AND FURTHER Mr BRYCE replied: EDUCATION Regional offices of the Department of Class Sizes Industrial Development were 1465. Mr BRADSHAW, to the Minister for transferred to the Minister for Re- Education: gional Development on 1 July 1986. One member of staff will remain at- (1) Has he or the Education Depantment tached to the Department of Indus- decreed that technical and further trial Development. education classes have a minimum size of 16? (2) Does this minimum number apply to STATE FINANCE: BUDGET other classes such as high schools? Allocation: Great Southern Development (3) Is there to be a reduced contact time Authority by technical and further education 1478. Mr WAT', to the Minister for lecturers? Regional Development: (4) Is it true that technical and further (1) In respect of Budget allocations for the education qualifications may not be Great Southern Development Auth- recognised by other education insti- ority for 1986-87, would he please tutions? provide details of the- Mr PEARCE replied: (a) number of people to be employed; (1) to (4) No. (b) commencement date; (c) Budget allocation for salaries and wages; (d) categories and numbers of each in which staff STATE FINANCE: BUDGET arc employed; (e) Budget allocation for fees for Allocation: Industrial Development Department chairman, deputy chairman and sitting fees; 1477. Mr WATT, to the Minister for Indust" and Technology: (f) Budget allocation for rent; and In respect of Budget allocations for the (g) other Budget allocations, if any? Albany office of the Department of In- (2) How much is it estimated would be dustrial Development for 1986-87, required to run the Great Southern would he please provide details of- Development Authority in a full year? (a) the number of people employed; Mr CARR replied: (b) the categories in which each is (1) (a) Initially eight; employed; (b) staff have been on the establish- (c) the total Budget allocation for ment of the Department of Re- office rents; gional Development and the (d) the total Budget allocation for North West sinc 1 July 1986, salaries and wages; and were seconded to the auth- (c) any other Budget allocations; ority as of I October 1986; (A) the date when staff is to be (c) $217 000; transferred to the Great Southern (d) level 7, two; Development Authority; level 4, one; (g) the number of staff which will re- level 3, one; main attached to the Department of Industrial Development; and level 1, four; (h) the total amount actually spent on (e) to (g) $174 000 is available for the Department of Industrial De- operating expenses; rent is pay- velopment's Albany office in the able by the Office of Government 1985-86 financial year? Accommodation. 3550 3550(ASSEMBLY]

(2) It is not possible to provide full-year Mr PARKER replied: estimates at this stage as the authority (1) This was a Budget decision and a mat- is still determining its programmes ter of Government policy determi- and priorities. nation. (2) and (3) not applicable. CRIME: PROSTITUTION Review: Report ENERGY 1482. Mr CASH, to the Minister for Police Solar Energy Research Institute: Merger and Emergency Services: 1486. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for (1) Did the Government commission a Minerals and Energy: Perth lawyer, Jill Toohey, to prepare a report on Western Australia's prosti- (1) Were the Board of the Western tution laws? Australian Mining and Petroleum Re- search Institute consulted about the (2) When was the report completed? Government decision to merge the (3) Does the report support the Western Australian Mining and Pet- decriminalisarion of prostitution in roleum Research Institute with the So- Western Australia? lar Energy Research Institute of West- ern Australia? (4) Has the report been considered by the Cabinet, and if so, what action is (2) If so, what was their reaction to the intended to be taken on the report? proposal? Mr GORDON HILL replied: (3) If they were not consulted, why not? (1) The member is referred to the answer Mr PARKER replied: to question 771 answered on I5 July The member is referred to my reply to 1986. question 1485. (2) Prior to I5 July 1986, as implied in answer to question 771 referred to ENERGY above. Solar Energy Research Institute Functions (3) No. The member was advised by 1487. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for answer to both questions 771 and 772 answered on 15 July 1986 that the Minerals and Energy: document was a background paper. (1) What functions of the Solar Energy The member is advised that the nature and Research Institute of Western of a background paper is that it Australia will be abolished when it is canvasses facts and policy options. merged with the Western Australian Mining and Petroleum Research Insti- (4) No. tute? (2) Is it envisaged that any functions of ENERGY the Western Australian Mining and Solar Energy Research Institute: Merger Petroleum Research Institute will be discontinued following the merger 1485. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for and, if so, what functions? Minerals and Energy: Mr PARKER replied: (1) Were the Board of the Solar Energy Research Institute of Western (1) The allocation of solar energy research Australia consulted about the Govern- grants will be carried out by the West- ment decision to merge the Solar En- ern Australian Mining and Petroleum ergy Research Institute of Western Research Institute. The Solar Energy Australia with the Western Australian Advisory Committee will remain and Mining and Petroleum Research Insti- become an advisory committee in a tute? similar way to the current WAMPRI advisory committee. The internally (2) If so, what was their reaction to the based dissemination, internal re- proposal? search, testing, and technical support (3) If they were not consulted, why not? for external projects currently [Thursday, 23 October 19861 355155

undertaken by SERIWA will not con- grammne for the year ended 30 June tinue. 1987? (2) No. Mr PEARCE replied: MOPEDS The amount of $525 000 mentioned in the capital works programme was Definition required to complete the recent ad- 1489. Mr CASH, to the Minister for Police dition of eight classrooms, library-re- and Emergency Services: source centre, and covered assembly (1) Will he define a moped? area. (2) At what minimum age may a person obtain a licence to ride a moped on a public road? STATE FINANCE BUDGET (3) Is it intended to change the definition Allocation: Police Stations of a moped? 1493. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for (4) is it proposed to amend the Road Police and Emergency Services: Traffic Act to enable 50 cc mnotor- cycles to be classified as mopeds? (1) What funds have been allocated in dhe Mr GORDON HILL replied: Consolidated Revenue Fund or capi- (I) For the purpose of the Road Traffic tal works Budget for the year ending Act, the definition of "moped" is set 30 June 1987 for improvements to be out in section 5 of that Act. made to the Brentwood, Canning, or Spearwood Police Stations? (2) 16 years. (3) and (4) These matters are under con- (2) What funds have been allocated in the sideration by Cabinet. same Budget for the acquisition of land for construction of new police fa- cilities to service the southern sub- STATE FINANCE: GENERAL LOAN AND urban areas? CAPITAL WORKS FUND Allocation: West Leeming PrimarySchool Mr GORDON HILL replied: 1491. Mr MacKJNNON, to the Minister for (1) Nil. Education: (2) $28 000 to finalise payment of land What capital works are to be carried purchased in Gillam Drive, Kelmscatt out at the West Leerning Primary for erection of a new traffic licensing School from the $90 000 allocated centre. under the heading "additional pri- mary schools", as listed under the capital works programme for the year STATE FINANCE: BUDGET ended 30 June 1987? Mr PEARCE replied: Allocation: Pre-primaryEducation It is Proposed to establish a dental 1494. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for therapy centre at Leeming Primary Education: School with the allocated funds. What funds, if any, have been provided in the 1986-87 Consolidated STATE FINANCE: GENERAL LOAN AND Revenue Fund Budget to enable the CAPITAL WORKS FUND Government to implement its election Allocation: RostrataPrimary School commitment to provide education for 1492. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for all four and five-year-old children? Education: Mr PEARCE replied: What capital works are to be carried out at the Rostrata Primary School $ 180 000 for employment of 30.5 full- from the $525 000 allocated under the time equivalent teacher aides to en- heading "additional primary schools", able an additional 1 050 four-year-old as listed in the capital works pro- enrolments. 3552 3552[ASSEMBLY]

STATE FINANCE: GENERAL LOAN AND Mr WILSON replied: CAPITAL WORKS FUND (1) The Department for Sport and Rec- Allocation: Lyn wood High School reation will cease its management in- volvement at the end of April 198 7. 1495. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for Education: (2) All permanent staff will be offered other employment. The Government What capital works are to be carried does not acknowledge an equal liab- out at the Lynwood High School from ility for redeployment of casual staff the $80 000 allocation under the head- as it does for permanent Government ing "additions and improvements to employees. However, if required, the high schools-Lynwood", as listed in Office of Redeployment and the capital works programme for the Retraining will assist in locating em- year ended 30 June 1987? ployment entailing similar hours for Mr PEARCE replied: the displaced casual staff involved. The allocated funds will be used to (3) See (2) above. commence work which will include improvements in the administration SPORT AND RECREATION: COMMUNITY building and facilities for music and CAMP dance. Noalimba: Use 1499. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for SPORT AND RECREATION: COMMUNITY Sport and Recreation: CAMP (1) Is it a fact that the number of people Noalimba: Use using the Noalimba Reception Centre 1496. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for has increased substantially over the Sport and Recreation: past two years? (1) How many individual groups have (2) Will he provide details of that usage? used the Noalimba Reception Centre (3) If not, why not? during the last 12 months? Mr WILSON replied: (2) In future, where will these groups be (1) Yes. accommodated? (2) January-December 1984-6 340 Mr WILSON replied: people (1) 325 for the period 30 September 85 to January-December 1985-10 199 30 September 86. people (2) Use will be made of the department's January-September 1986-9 648 other camps to assist in accommodat- people ing such groups. Depending on the (3) Not applicable. outcome of the feasibility study to be conducted in relation to this facility, additional accommodation may also SPORT AND RECREATION: COMMUNITY be available. CAMP Noalimba: Fees SPORT AND RECREATION: COMMUNITY 1500. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for CAMP Sport and Recreation: (1) Are the fees for the use of Noalimba. Noalimba: Closure Reception Centre to be increased in 1498. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for the near future? Sport and Recreation: (2) When will that increase take effect? (1) When will the Noalimba Reception (3) When was the last time that these fees Centre be closed? were increased? (2) Will all staff, permanent and casual, Mr WILSON replied: be offered alternative employment? (1) A proposal is currently being (3) If not, why not? examined by Treasury. [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 353553

(2) Depending on (I) above. superannuation scheme for Australian (3) January 1984. universities-SSAU? (2) Is there any provision for staff mem- SPORT AND RECREATION: COMMUNITY bers to opt out by contributing to CAMP another superannuation scheme? Noalimba: Land Area (3) Who manages the superannuation 1501. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for scheme for Australian universities Sport and Recreation: funds? (1) What is the area of land upon which (4) To whom are the superannuation the Noalimba Reception Centre is scheme for Australian universities located? fund managers accountable? (2) How much of that land is vacant, un- used land? (5) Is there any ongoing assessment of the costs and performance of the (3) What is the present zoning of that superannuation scheme for Australian land? universities fund, in comparison with Mr WILSON replied: other superannuation schemes? (1) 11.3691 hectares. Mr PEARCE replied: (2) 1 will advise the member in wri ting when the information is to hand. The superannuation scheme for Australian universities was proposed (3) The reserve is vested in the Rec- by reation, Camps and Reserves Board the universities in Australia and for recreational, educational, and backed by the Commonwealth Government as a means of stabilising Government purposes, or any pur- the cost of superannuation contri- poses incidental to any of the afore- butions while providing a flexible ar- said. rangement appropriate to present day needs. Universities and colleges of ad- STATE FINANCE: GENERAL LOAN AND vanced education are eligible for CAPITAL WORKS FUND membership on behalf of their aca- Allocation: South Lake Primary School demic and administrative staff. 1502. Mr MacKINNON, to the Minister for In this State, UWA, Murdoch Univer- Education: sity, WAIT, and WACAE have joined What capital works are to be carried the scheme which offers the advantage out at the South Lake Primary School of interstate portability of rights. In from the $50 000 allocation under the order to achieve economies of oper- heading "Additional Stages at Pri- ation, the trustees established con- mary Schools" as listed in the capital ditions of membership to which the works programme for the year ended member refers. The answers to the 30 June 1987? specific questions are- Mr PEARCE replied: (1) Yes, all new members of staff, if The allocated funds will be used to appointed for a period longer commence additions comprising six than two years, are required to classrooms, a library-resource centre, join. a dental therapy centre, and a canteen. (2) No.

EDUCATION: TERTIARY (3) Experienced investment man- agers are appointed by SSAU Staff Superannuation Nominees Proprietary Limited, a 1503. Mr COWAN, to the Minister for trustee company with shares held Education: by the institutions. (1) Is it a condition of employment for (4) The trustees. administrative staff at the University of Western Australia and Murdoch (5) Yes, through the normal reporting University that they join the procedures of trustees. (112) 3554 3554[ASSEMBLY]

MOSMAN PARK: TEAROOMS (6) Why was he invited to apply? EnvironmentalInvestigations (7) What will be his salary range? 1504. Mr HASSELL, to the Minister for (8) To which department will he be at- Environment: tached until the authority is validated Following his statement last Thursday by legislation? that he had ordered an investigation (9) Where was Mr Jones employed at the of the Mosman Bay development pro- time he was invited to apply? posals by the Chairman of the En- vironmental Protection Authority- Mr CARR replied: (a) what investigation did he in fact (1) Yes. order; (2) 20 June 1986. (b) what were its terms of reference; (3) 38. (c) who is undertaking the investi- (4) to (6) The advertised position was not gat ion; filled. Mr Jones has been appointed (d) when will it be completed; and acting director. (e) will the report be made public? (7) $45 532. (8) GSDA staff are on the establishment Mr H-ODGE replied: of the Department of Regional Devel- (a) As a result of a referral under section opment and the North West. 56 of the Environmental Protection (9) He was not invited to apply. Prior to Act by the Town of Mosman Park, I his appointment as acting director, he sought the advice of the Environmen- was on the staff of the Federal Minis- tal Protection Authority; ter for Finance. (b) there were no specific terms of refer- ence;, (c) the chairman of the EPA; (d) I received advice from the Chairman of the EPA on 22 October;, QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE (e) yes. MOSMAN PARK TEAROOMS Environmental Evaluation GREAT SOUTHERN DEVELOPMENT 307. Mr BLAIKIE, to the Minister for AUTHORITY Environment: (1) Has the Environmental Protection Executive Officer Authority evaluated the proposed 1509. Mr WATT, to the Minister for Mosman Park marina development Regional Development: and, if so, with what result? (1) is it fact that Mr Michael Jones, who (2) If not, will the development be al- has been appointed Executive Officer lowed to proceed without EPA evalu- of the Great Southern Development ation? Authority, was not an applicant for the position by the advertised closing Mr HODGE replied: date for applications? (1) and (2) 1 thank the member for his question. (2) What was the advertised closing dale? A few days ago, I received a request from the Town of Mosman Park, (3) How many applications were received through its solicitors, asking that I re- by that date? fer the tearooms development to the (4) Is it true that Mr Jones was invited to EPA for its assessment under section apply? 56 of the Environmental Protection (5) How long after the advertised closing Act. I immediately complied with that date did Mr Jones apply? request and forwarded the matter to (Thursday, 23 October 1986J155 3555

the EPA. The EPA did briefly con- They do in fact produce precisely the sider it and decided it would be best same result. Over the 1970s and the dealt with by the Swan River Manage- 1980s, using results of those elections ment Authority. as the statistical data-and I would The Swan River Management Auth- urge all members to have a look at the ority met and discussed the matter, data in case there should be some passed their advice back to the EPA, doubt in their minds-the Govern- and I have just received a report from ment's proposals, translated back the Chairman of the EPA giving me an through the last five or six elections, assessment of the whole matter. would mean that in 1974 the Labor That report will be passed on-in fact, Party would have been convincingly it has probably already been passed on beaten in both Houses-it would have this afternoon-to the Town of lost its majority in this place and it Mosman Park or its solicitors who would certainly not have won one in initiated the action. It will also be the other House. made public. In 1977, the coalition parties would have won a comfortable majority under a PR-elected upper House. In 1980, the upper House would have ACTS AMENDMENT (ELECTORAL been drawn 17-all because of the level of electoral support for both parties. REFORM) BILL In 1983, based on the level of support Representation: Legislative Council recorded in the ballot boxes, there would have been a very slender ma- 308. Mrs WATKINS, to the Minister for jority for the Australian Labor Party Parliamentary and Electoral Reform: in the upper House. In 1986, the fig- ure would have been precisely the (1) Has he had an opportunity to analyse same. Yet the proposals brought to the the proposals of the Liberal Party, the Chamber by both the Liberal Party National Party, and the Government and the National Party seek to for Legislative Council representation achieve, by different routes and in the Electoral Reform Bill before the slightly different methods, precisely House? the same end, which is the continu- (2) If so, will he provide details? ation of a permanent majority for the Liberal Party and the National Party Mr BRYCE replied: in coalition in the Legislative Council. (1) and (2) 1 have indeed had an oppor- I seek leave to incorporate this data. I tunity to have this job finished, using believe it is the first time that this sort both a computer model and the mech- of material has been incorporated in anical method of doing so. I have such a candid fashion. I say to all made the offer for the resources of the members sitting opposite: Please ana- Government to be made available to lyse the figures. Please take the figures members of both parties opposite so to task. If there are areas wherein they can have a look at this statistical members opposite believe errors have information. been made, ultimately 1, as the Minis- I am disappointed to have to inform ter responsible, would be perfectly (he member who asked this question happy, having had officers of the and the other members of the House Government-and not the Electoral that it is very apparent that just Department-do this work, to see the coincidentally the Liberal and material submitted for analysis to any National Parties presented to the Par- independent political expert anywhere liament models for basic structures for in the country, even by Malcolm electing members to the Legislative Mackerras, if that is what members of Council under the new proposals in a the Opposition want. way that comprised different schemes, In fact, this has brought the House to a but which were designed to produce very disappointing stage of the debate, the same result. and before the third reading of the 3556 3556[ASSEMBLY]

legislation is held, I urge members to therefore much lower and this is have a look at the material which I reflected in lower estimates of their now seek leave to incorporate. likely representation. The following material was incorpor- ESTIMATED EFFECTS IN THE ated by leavye of the House- LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL OF THREE PROPOSED SYSTEMS OF ESTIMATED RESULTS UNDER REPRESENTATION THREE PROPOSED SYSTEMS OF REP- PARTY State- Eke-, Liberal NPA Aetual RESENTATION wide total ProposalProposlCornpo- Vote Reform sllon Legislative Assembly BASED ON Bill 1986 of LC Notes: 1966ELECTION See us1 41.9% 15 16 14 14 Appendix for an outline of the three NPA 4,8% I 2 3 4 systems proposed. ALP 44.6% IS 16 16 16 Bracketed figures are present represen- AD 911%1 BASED ON tation in the likely 'areas of the regions 1983 ELECTION proposed. LID 41.6% 14 16 15 19 NPA 6.3% 2 2 3 2 Estimated Outcomes-Based on 1986 Re- ALP 50,6% 18 16 16 13 sults BASED ON 1980 ELECTION ELECTORAL REFORM BILL 1986- LIB 47.4% 16 17 I5 19 3 4 NPA 4.7% I 2 GOVERNMENT PROPOSAL ALP 47.6% 17 15 16 9 PRO POSED ALP LID NPA Total REGION BASED ON 1977 ELECTION North 44) 3 (2) 4 50.4% Is Avialhura (I) 0 (2) 21 (41 2-3 4 LID 17 Is Is Southwest (6) 3-5 (6) 3- (2 2 tO NPA 4,5% I 2 4 AlMetropolitan (21) 25-26 (9) 13-14 39 NA 15 ALP 4.4.1% 15 '4 10 (32) 31-34 (19) 19-22 (6) .4-5 57 14 BASED ON 1974 ELECTON National Party Proposal LID 44 '9% 16 1s PROPOSED ALP LID NPA Total COUNTRY 3.3% 2 2 3 REGION NA 4.7% 16 Metropolitan (22) 22-23 (12) 10-1IL 33 DLP 16 fcultural (7) 6-7 (3) 5-6 (6) 5-6 19 ALP 46.9% 16 9 (..dP3) 3-4 (2) 1.2 5 APPENDIX (32) 3M-34 (19) 16i-19 (6) 5-6 57 An Outline Of The Three Proposed Systems Of LIBERAL PARTY PROPOSAL Representation PROPOSED RE- ALP LID NPA Total GION ELECTORAL REFORM BILL 1986- Metropolitan (21) 22-23 (9) 10-11I 33 S. (15) 4 (6) 4-5 (I1) 1 I0 GOVERNMENT PROPOSAL. Easte= (3) 3 (2) 2 (5) 4-5 9 North (2) 3-4 (2) 1-2 5 The Electoral Distribution Commissioners will decide which districts shall be placed in each (32) 32-34 (19) 17-20 (6) 5-6 57 regin, guided by the following broad geo- Statewide Vole 53.0% 401.% 3.7% graphical descriptions. Legislative Council The Commissioners shall divide the State into Malapportionment in the present 6 regions so that- Legislative Council electoral system is (a) one region, to be known as the North of such magnitude (hat the proposed and East Region, consists of 4 com- reforms can he expected to alter rep- plete and contiguous districts that are, resentation to more accurately match in the opinion of the Commissioners, voter support. The following estimates remote from the capital; have been based on the results of elec- tions from 1974 onwards. Support for (b) one region, to be known as the Agri- the National Country Party is under- cultural Region, consists of 4 complete estimated because they have not and contiguous districts that together contested up to two thirds of the avail- form an area that is- able seats in a region. The overall per- (i) generally south, or south and centage of the vote they received is west, of;, and [Thursday, 23 October 19861 355755

(ii) adjacent to, the North and East the Commissioner, remote from Region; the capital and to the North and East of the agricultural areas. (c) 3 regions, to be known, respectively, (2) The division of the regions into dis- as the North Metropolitan Region, the tricts shall be made such that the num- South Metropolitan Region and the ber of electors comprised in each dis- East Metropolitan Region, each con- trict- sist of 13 complete and contiguous districts that are situated in or near (a) in the case of the Metropolitan the metropolitan area of the capital; Region, shall not be more than 10% greater, or more than 10% (d) the remaining region, to be known as less; and the South West Region, consists of the (b) in the case or the Agricultural and remaining 10 districts which shall be the Mining and Pastoral Regions, contiguous. shall not be more than 1 5% greater, or more than 15% less; Terms of office of all members of both H-ouses of Parliament will be based on 4 than the quotient obtained by dividing years. the number of electors comprised in the region in question by the number of districts into which the region is to be divided." EtmtdEstimated % Above or Rc~nML~sDistict Bel ow State RegonMLsEirimetLs REnmlments Average. Per Terms of office of all members of both Enrlmees eon Per 112 MLC Houses will be based on 4 years. 4 3 62 300 20700 -20.5 4 3 62 300 20 700 -20.5 10 57iof 7 15800 22200 -14.8 ELECTORAL REFORM BILL 1986 13 15500 7 202300 28900 +10.6 AMENDMENTS 13 7 202500 28900 +10.6 33 7 202500 2900 +10.6 NATIONAL PARTY OF AUSTRALIA- 57 34 PROPOSED SYSTEM OF L.ARatio - 1:1 LCkuatio - 1.41 REPRESENTATION Range - 235% Range -31.I1% Estimated Estimated Enrol- Above or Be- Region MLAs District En- MLCa mcmiReinPrLwAep roient MI Per aM NATIONAL PARTY PROPOSAL Miningand Pastoral (1) "The Commissioners shall divide the (North] $ 9625 5 48125 9625 -62.2% State into 3 regions so that- 12 182975 15239 --40.2% 19 33 19242 I0 635000D 37 3S3 + 46.6% (a) one region, to be known as the (4-266%) Metropolitan Region, consists of 33 complete 57 34 and contiguous dis- LA Ratio - 2:1L LCRatio - 3.9:1 tricts that together form an area Range -63.2% Range - 108.9% that is similar to the Metropolitan area as designated on the Metro- politan Region Plan; LIBERAL PARTY PROPOSAL (b) one region, to be known as the (1) Subject to as hereafter provided, the Agricultural Region, consists of Commissioners shall divide the State 19 complete and contiguous dis- into 4 regions so that- tricts that are- (a) one region, to be known as the (i) outside the Metropolitan Metropolitan Region, consists of area; and 33 complete and contiguous dis- tricts, mainly urban in character, (ii) generally south and west of that are wholly situated within 50 the Mining and Pastoral Re- kilometres of Parliament House gion. Perth; (c) one region, to be known as the (b) one region, to be known as the Mining and Pastoral Region, con- South West Region, consists of 10 sists of 5 complete and contiguous complete and contiguous dis- districts that are, in the opinion of tricts, the land in which is mainly 3558 3558[ASSEMBLY]

used for farming, that are gener- ELECTORAL REFORM BILL 1986 ally to the south of the Metropoli- AMENDMENTS tan Region; LIBERAL PARTY-PROPOSED SYSTEM (c) one region, to be known as the OF REPRESENTATION Northern Region, consists of 5 complete and contiguous dis- Estiamd Estinmed Above or Be- tricts, the land in which is mainly Region MIWsDisuriatEn- MiCs Enrolments low Aveag used for mining or pastoral activi- rolnients Region PerMIaC Per MLC ties, that are wholly situated north Northern 5 Not apeifed of the 38th degree of latitude; and Eastern and 6 90000 O50 -W 4 Central (d) one region, to be known as the 10000 south West 10 (3.% 6 '0000 16670 -34.5% Eastern and Central Region, con- Melnro~litan 33 19242 1S 635000 35278 .38.5% sists of 9 complete and contiguous (+26.6%) districts, the land in which is LA Raljo -2.4:1' LC Ratio -3.5:1 Range - 74%+5 Range -99.I1% mainly used for mining, or farm- (*Based on an average enrolment in the North.) (if the North is ing on a less intensive basis than disregarded. 1.9: 1) the South West Region, and which is generally less densely populated than the South West Region, that are generally north ECONOMY and east of the Metropolitan Re- Western Australian: Inflation Rate gion. 309. Mr COURT, to the Deputy Premier: (2) The making of the division of the State into regions shall be made such (1) Can the Deputy Premier explain why, that the number of electors comprised according to the latest CPI figures, in the South West Region shall not be Western Australia has the highest in- more than 20% greater, or more than flation rate in Australia? 20% less, than the quotient obtained (2) Can he further explain why govern- by dividing the number of electors mental increases were blamed for by comprised in the South West Region far the major proportion of the CPI and the Eastern and Central Regions rise in Western Australia, given that by the number 2. no other State was similarly affected (3) The making of the division of the re- by Government imposts either in the gions into districts shall be made such last quarter or in the last year? that the number of electors comprised Mr BRYCE replied: in each district- (1) and (2) 1 am (a) in the delighted to be able to case of the Metropolitan remind the member for Nedlands that Region, shall not be more than for I I consecutive previous quarters 10% greater, or more than 10% the rate of inflation, the CPI! increase less; and level or rate, in Western Australia was (b) in the case of the South West and significantly lower than the State aver- in the East and Central Regions, ages anywhere else. There are many shall not be more than 15% wise old sayings to be picked up greater, or more than 15% less; around this profession of ours and I than the quotient obtained by dividing would now pass on another to him: It the number of electors comprised in takes a lot more than one swallow to the region in question by the number make a spring or a summer. of districts into which the region is to The member for Nedlands need not be divided." imagine for a minute that because on Terms of Members of the Legislative this occasion Western Australia's toe Council will continue to be 6 years so is marginally in front of the interstate that each general election will be to fill average-which was a 2.6 per cent in- the seats of only 17 of the 34 mem- crease, while WA's was 0.8 of one per bers. Terms of the Legislative As- cent ahead of that-it will be sitting in sembly will continue to be based on 3 that same position for very much years. longer. The Government will do [Thursday, 23 October 1986] 355935

everything that is necessary to take it sult of damage caused during a back to precisely where it has sat collision the car was involved in about comfortably for the last 11 consecu- I8 months ago. tive quarters, which has been well be- low the average increase of all the Police inquiries also conclude that it States. would be extremely difficult to tamper with the car in the manner alleged un- The answer to the first part of the less the rear of the member's vehicle member's question is simply that the was elevated. reason for the unusual increase basi- cally is that this State has the most Police say it was most likely that the buoyant regional economy in the bolts came adrift because they were country. Other pants of Australia are either not correctly tensioned after the going through the agony associated repair work was done, or vibrations with the wheels falling off. Things are loosened them, or both. The bolts going really badly in other pants of the were not shed from the unit when it country, but here we have the became detached from the differential America's Cup and the advance stages because they are mechanically of the North-West Shelf, and all the prevented from being lost. general buoyancy which just about ex- plains the 0.8 of one per cent ad- The police conclusions were made ditional rate of inflation. known to the member for East Melville earlier this week, and I can only conclude that he did not pass this information on to the member for MEMBER FOR EAST MELVILLE Gascoyne. If he did, then serious ques- Car: Tampering tions again arise in respect of the in- tegrity of the member for Gascoyne. 310. Mr READ, to the Deputy Premier: Is he aware of the serious allegation Apparently the member for Gascoyne made by the member for Gascoyne in was also not informed that at the time the Legislative Assembly last night of making his speech to this House, no that the Government was not treating member of either House was under seriously the alleged incident involv- police surveillance as he alleged. In ing the member for East Melville's fact, the member for East Melville was car? only under police surveillance for two days after his complaint about his car Mr BRYCE replied: being tampered with was made, until I am aware of the allegations, and I it became apparent that the allegation regard all of the allegations that were of unlawful interference was ex- made by the member for Gascoyne tremely difficult to support. last night in the debate in this Chamber as very serious. The member for East Melville earlier this week informed the police that no I am able to inform the House that I have been advised by the Minister for threats had been made. There is no substance to Opposition claims of Police and Emergency Services on be- threats to members participating in half of the Government that the in- either parliamentary inquiry into the quiries by the Police Department indi- sale of the Midland abattoir or cate that there is no evidence of un- Saleyards, or to witnesses. lawful interference with the member's car. The chairman of the upper House Investigations have revealed that the committee-the man whose impar- most likely explanation is mechanical tiality and credibility have been failure. This view is supported by an virtually destroyed as a result of his independent BMW expert, and is con- cynical handling of the matter-who sistent with the car having been is reported as having said that he, and repaired after having been extensively witnesses to his inquiry, have had damaged, It is also consistent with vi- their lives and livelihood threatened, bration problems experienced as a re- has not even bothered to complain to 3560 3560[ASSEMBLY]

the police. In fact, his only approach Mr LEWIS: I would like to correct the was on 15 October at about 5.00 p.m. record. when he telephoned the police and indicated to them a view that damage The SPEAKER: Order! I am aware of my may be done to his vehicle. He did not previous rulings in respect of ques- provide any evidence to support this tions and answers, and since I made view. the statement I think Ministers in gen- eral have made their answers fairly How serious can he be when, as chair- brief and to the point. I am cognisant man of a parliamentary committee of of the fact that this answer has been inquiry, he claims that witnesses to fairly lengthy, but I thought that it was this inquiry are threatened but takes a very important matter for this absolutely no action to secure protec- House to consider, and I also thought tion for those witnesses by that when the Deputy Leader of the complaining to the police? Opposition stood up the Deputy The only inference that can be drawn Premier had just finished saying he from his neglect to take such action is was drawing his answer to a close. I that he did not want to find himself presume that is so. charged with making a false report. Questions without Notice Resumed The member for Gascoyne's litany of Mr BRYCE: I conclude by saying we all unfounded allegations continues. He witnessed it, and we all know the implied that the retirement of the for- member for Gascoyne savours an am- mer Executive Director of the WADC, bition to lead the Liberal Party. I Mr Michael Beech, was somehow simply say to members opposite, after linked to the sale of the abattoir. Mr witnessing that performance and a Beech has denied the allegation and number of previous performances: Do described it as arrant nonsense. As far us a favour and make him the leader! back as January, he had discussed his departure with the Chairman of the WADC, Mr John H-organ. The resig- nation was formalised in April, and he TECHNICAL AND FURTHER left in May. EDUCATION Mr Williams: How much more of this rub- Lecturers: Conditionsof Employment bish is there? 311. Mr RUSH-TON, to the Minister for Mr Burkett-, The truth hurts. Education: The SPEAKER: Order! (1) Why did the Government fail to nego- tiate with the TAFE staff or the Mr BRYCE: Can I draw my response to Teachers Union about the proposed the question to a close by saying that changes to lecturers' working con- every one of us in this House who ditions prior to announcing these listened to the member for Gascoyne changes? deliver that speech last night would (2) Will the intended cuts to TAFE know that while it is very disturbing, it lecturers' conditions also apply to is not very surprising. He has devel- Canning and Tuart Senior Colleges? oped an enormous propensity-quite an extraordinary capacity-to deliver Mr PEARCE replied: the most irrational and unbalanced (1) and (2) The answer to the first ques- statements to this House. tion is very easy. I have been trying to get the Teachers Union to Points of Order negotiate on this matter since I first met with Mr MacK]NNON: I think the Opposition them on 8 October. I called in a depu- has been rather patient, and for five tation from the union and delivered minutes, other than on one occasion, them a letter on 8 October which has not interjected on the Deputy announced the proposed changes, and Premier. In line with your previous I sought a response from the union to direction, the Deputy Premier should those changes by way of further nego- be asked to conclude his answer to this tiations. I invited the union on 8 question forthwith. October to negotiate on those issues. [Thursday, 23 October 19861 356156

A week later, on 15 October, 1 Should that be agreeable to you, received a letter from the union presi- we would then be in a position to dent, Jeff Bateman, which says in part discuss other ways of saving that the union rejected outright the money in the TAFE Sector. proposed package. Further on, on the That is, the union not only reaffirmed question of negotiation, the letter its position that it would not negotiate says- unless the package were withdrawn, The Union believes it is un- but it now wanted written guarantees reasonable for you or your that the package would not be put in Government, to expect us to com- place in the 1987 school year before it mence negotiations while the would even continue negotiating. I threat of implementation of the responded to that letter the following Proposals contained in your letter day, 21 October, as follows- of the 8th October remains. Therefore, I have telegrammed *Dear Ms Heine, Premier Burke indicating to him Thank you for your letter of that the Union is prepared to October 20, 1 986 stating the negotiate on this matter if he will Union's conditions before nego- agree to withdraw the current set tiations can proceed on the ques- of proposals. tion of TAFE conditions. That is, the union would not negotiate As I indicated when I first met on the matter unless the proposals with the Union on this issue I am were withdrawn, which of course willing to negotiate on any aspect position that would have led to the of the proposals. However it -is there would be nothing to discuss or unreasonable of the Union to de- negotiate. I responded to that letter by mand that I give the undertaking speaking to the union on the phone requested; that is that none of the and suggesting that negotiations proposed measures will be should take place. implemented in 1987, because On Monday this week a deputation that is a matter which should headed by Neville Davis, who is the form part of the negotiations. If Chairman of the TAFE Committee of the Union is dinkum in wanting the Teachers Union, came to see me negotiations on this matter then I and he reiterated verbally the position really do suggest that you stop that the union would only negotiate if making ridiculous conditions and the Government would withdraw the start negotiations. total package. I pointed out to him that that was nonsense, but that I was My door is always open. prepared to delay steps towards implementing the proposals which I got a response to that on 21 October would not in any event be marked "Personal and Confidential". implemented until the beginning of It is from the union president this the 1987 school year. I was prepared time and states- not to have colleges put the arrange- ments into process while negotiations Dear Bob, took place. For negotiations on the TAFE I thought from Mr Davis' reactions matter to proceed, I require your there was some capacity for nego- response to the following ques- tiation on that basis. However, later tions: that day I received a letter from the (1) If the Union, in negotiations, secretary of the union which reads- was not able to identify This letter is to inform you that within the TAFE budget this union can only agree to nego- areas where $9 million could tiate on this issue if we have writ- be saved, would your ten confirmation from you that Government still implement none of the proposed measures the changes to TAFE working will be implemented in 1987. conditions? 3562 3562[ASSEMBLY] (2) Would the negotiators have before, and the strike, in the sense of the brief to look for savings trying to produce negotiations, has elsewhere: been totally unnecessary and unhelp- (i) in the Education budget? ful. (ii) in the total State budget? MEMBER FOR GASCOYNE Your response to these questions are vital, since they will indicate Allegations: Select Committee of Privilege if there is a basis on which nego- 312. Mr MARLBOROUGH, to the Leader of tiations can proceed. the House: I responded to that the next day, 22 In the light of revelations by the October, as follows- Deputy Premier concerning alle- gations of misuse of parliarnenatary Dear Jeff. privilege raised by the member for Thank YOU for your letter of East Melville and the member for October 21, 1986 with regard to Gascoyne, will he reconsider whether the possibility of negotiations there should he a parliamentary Select about the TAFE dispute. Committee of Privilege into those alle- I repeat my offer given verbally to gations? Neville Davis last Monday to halt Mr PEARCE replied: moves to implement the proposed Given the revelations made by the new arrangements while nego- Deputy Premier, the Government tiations take place. Should nego- does not think it is necessary to recon- tiations be unsuccessful, however, sider its attitude to the question of the the Government would resume Privileges Committee proposed by the implementation for the beginning member for East Melville yesterday. of 1987. Given the lead time However, the member for Gascoyne necessary for this implemen- has again used the forum of Parlia- tation, some constraints would ment under parliamentary privilege to then be placed on the time over make unfounded allegations against which negotiations could be held. not only members of this House, but Negotiations could cover all the also persons outside this House who areas raised in your letter. How- are unable to defend themselves. It ever, it should be understood that was for that same reason that he was while I have flexibility .to brought before the Privileges Com- reallocate funds in the Education mittee of the Parliament in the last budget, I have no capacity to in- session. The committee recommended crease the Education budget total. in its report a minimal penalty be- Under the circumstances I sin- cause it felt that being brought before cerely hope that the Union will that committee would be a lesson to resume negotiations. There is a the member for Gascoyne. much greater likelihood of a Given that the member for Gascoyne resolution of this matter through obviously has not learnt that lesson, negotiations than through con- the Government will give consider- tinuing to exchange letters. ation to reconvening the Privileges That letter was dated yesterday and Committee to inquire into the con- reiterated the offer I made on Monday duct of the member for Gascoyne. in precise terms to the union. Today, after two days of strikes, it has now TECHNICAL AND FURTHER agreed to negotiate on these terms. EDUCATION Those terms were available to the Lecturers: Conditionsof Employment union not only on Monday, but on every day since 8 October. 313. Mr COWAN, to the Minister for It would have to be said that if the Education: union's purpose in calling a iwo-day (1) Is the Minister aware that a variety of strike was to get to the negotiating conflicting statements are being made table, it could have been there on about the contact hours and the over- Monday of this week, or at any time all duty hours of TAFE lecturers? [Thursday, 23 October 1986j]56 3563

(2) Will the Minister table evidence that although they vary, Of Course, will clarify, for the benefit of mem- depending on the circumstances that bers, the actual contact hours and prevail in a particular college. teaching hours of all grades of TAFE I am having all of that information in lecturers? its considerable detail put together, (3) Will he table evidence of contact partly to let the member and other members know-I will forward it to hours and overall duty hours of- them in writing-and partly to deal (a) secondary school teachers; and with the negotiations which will take place with the Teachers Union on (b) lecturers at the Western those issues. Australian College of Advanced I tell the member and anyone else that Education and the Western the union has come to the negotiating Australian Institute of Tech- table after 15 days of my trying to get nology? it there. If it has a case to put reason- (4) Does this evidence confirm the ably with regard to comparative con- statements made by the Minister in ditions, we will listen to that case. response to my question without no- However, the union has had three tice yesterday? years, as I indicated to the House yes- terday, of discussions following our Mr PEARCE replied: rej ection of the Dormer report to try (1) to (4) Obviously, the question of indi- to come to terms with these issues, vidual contact hours and average con- and it has not yet done so. tact hours of TAFE lecturers is a very I am pleased to say that it is coming to complex matter and requires some the negotiating table to discuss this time to be put together. matter and maybe there will be a MrI Cash: It took you three days to revise serious effort to address the very im- portant issues which are the subject of the whole system. the Government's decisions in this JInterruption from gallery.] matter.

The SPEAKER: Order! We always wel- EDUCATION: TEACHERS come public participation here; it is a Northern: Government Attitude very important part of the parliamen- 314. Mrs BUCHANAN, to the Minister for tary process. However, it is a very im- Employment and Training: portant part of the parliamentary pro- (1) Is the Minister aware of claims by the cess, whether we agree or not with State School Teachers Union and what is being said, that we do not in- others that- terfere with a person's right to say it in (a) the Government has acted this place. unfairly towards school teachers Mr Peter Dowding: Perhaps the member in the north; for Mt Lawley can tell us whether he is (b) the Government has reacted to still supporting the Dormer report. the recent strike by deferring the Mr Burkett: Or whether he is still support- rent increase implementation; ing the member for Gascoyne. and (c) that the Government has not been The SPEAKER: Order! It also applies to willing to negotiate the issue? members of Parliament. (2) Will the Minister inform the House of Mr PEARCE: The Opposition was critical the true position? when I gave the commitment not to Mr PETER DOWDING replied: implement the Dormer report. I (1) and (2) 1 am most concerned about assume its policy is to still implement what appears to be a campaign of mis- the Dormer report in all of its detail, information on this issue. In fact, the some of which bears on the question member for Gascoyne commenced the raised by the member for Merredin. move towards rent standardisation in In broad terms, the average contact GEHA housing in 1982 when the pre- hours that I advised him of in answer vious Government was in office. His to a question yesterday are accurate, embarrassment tonight is synonymous 3564 3564[ASSEMBLY)

with the embarrassment of the mem- Union has not approached the ber for East Melville who drops nuts Government on any occasion to all over the place. He ought to get the further discuss this issue. hole in his pocket fixed. As has already been indicated, because The State School Teachers Union of the complexity of the Govern- sought and obtained an allowance of ment's position as both the owner of $6 per week in anticipation of rent accommodation and with a large var- standardisation. Teachers have been iety of awards and workers, it will take accepting this allowance despite the steps to bring equity and fairness back fact that rent standardisation has not into the rental system. occurred. There are not to be massive increases TECHNICAL AND FURTHER in rent for either existing tenants or EDUCATION new tenants in GEHA housing. All Staff? Job Loss Government workers paying GEHA 31 5. Mr CASH, to the Minister for rent have had the benefit of four years Education: of no rent increases, other than $1.70 in 1985. This was to enable rent stan- (1) Is the Teachers Union correct in its dardisation negotiations to be assessment that 300 staff of TAFE will finalised, but some unions have not lose their jobs as a result of the been prepared to reach agreement. Government's cost-cutting measures? It is proposed to set the benchmark (2) If not, what is the correct figure? level of GEHA rent for standard ac- (3) Will such reductions in staff numbers commodation for 1987 at $58.70. affect the quality of TAFE education? This approximates the level of award Mr PEARCE replied: wage movements over the four years (1) to (3) That figure of 300 teachers al- since 1982. From then on increases leged to be put off from TAFE is not will continue to be limited to the CPI. an accurate figure. It is impossible to Existing tenants will move to this level say at the moment precisely what the only by annual increments of $6 or the figure will be because the situation is, CPI increase, whichever is greater. as I outlined in the House at some Appropriate adjustments will be wade length when going through the letters, for non-standard accommodation. that I put a set of proposals to the The present level of Government rents union on 8 October. They have been represents a continued subsidy of quantified into a set of guidelines by more than $ 13 million a year for the TAFE division of the Education Government workers' housing. Other Department and sent to colleges so benefits such as capping low income that they can look to their own pro- rents and improving standardisation grammes and staffing requirements. procedures are included in this pack- Mr Cash: Is it likely to be more than 300? age. Mr PEARCE: No, it is likely to be con- Action to defer the increase until 1 siderably fewer. January was taken in September on Mr Cash: Can you give us an approximate advice from CElIA that administrat- number? ive arrangements could not be in place in time for a 1 October move in rents. Mr PEARCE: I have explained before that, Extensive negotiations were held with when one looks at the staff numbers the Trades and Labor Council and all employed in many areas of TAFE, relevant unions, but the Teachers full-time staff and pan-time staff are Union indicated that it would not the same people. reach agreement; nor did it have any Full-time lecturers under TAFE, when further matters to discuss with the fulfilling their contact hours under Government about the rent standard- current arrangements, are often isation increase except to oppose it. employed-not in every case-as Since the negotiations ended in mid- pan-time staff to do further hours in September, the State School Teachers that same area. (Thursday, 23 October 19861 3565

It is difficult to talk precisely about People who are doing full-time work how many staff would not be required now would not have the additional pant-time component on top of their next year because in many cases the full-time work. When the figures come staff who would not be required would back from the department following negotiations with the union-we will be the staff who would be required-if be sitting for some time yet-I will be I can put it like that. quite happy to advise the member.