Seanad E´Ireann

Vol. 197 Wednesday, No. 4 7 October 2009 DIÓSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SEANAD E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 7 October 2009. Business of Seanad ………………………………167 Order of Business …………………………………167 Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2009: Second Stage (resumed)………………185 Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009: Order for Second Stage ……………………………192 Second Stage …………………………………192 Public Transport: Motion ………………………………226 Adjournment Matters: Schools Building Projects ……………………………251 Natural Heritage Areas ……………………………254 Water Quality…………………………………257 SEANAD E´ IREANN ———— De´ Ceádaoin, 7 Deireadh Fo´mhair 2009. Wednesday, 7 October 2009. ———— Chuaigh an Cathaoirleach i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Business of Seanad. An Cathaoirleach: I have received notice from Senator Fidelma Healy Eames that she pro- poses to raise the following matter on the Adjournment: The need for the Minister for Education and Science to clarify if Colaíste na Coiribe, Galway city, will be included in the next public private partnerships bundle and when that is likely to be in order that the school may proceed to meet the large pupil enrolment on waiting lists for accommodation. I have also received notice from Senator Nicky McFadden of the following matter: The need for the Minister of Finance to expand the amenity that is Corlea project, Kenagh, County Longford. I have also received notice from Senator Brian O´ Domhnaill of the following matter: The need for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to approve emergency funding to Donegal County Council for the replacement of defective water pipes in Crolly, Glasserchoo and other parts of Rosses regional water supply pipe network. I have also received notice from Senator Cecilia Keaveney of the following matter: The need for the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to make a statement on how the future development of the River Foyle can be co-ordinated and maxi- mised across all possible marine uses under one possible cross-Border agency. I regard the matters raised by the Senators as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment. I have selected the matters raised by Senators Healy Eames, McFadden and O´ Domhnaill and they will be taken at the conclusion of business. Order of Business. Senator Donie Cassidy: The Order of Business is No. 1, Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2009 — Second Stage (resumed), to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 2 p.m., if not previously concluded, on which spokespersons may speak for 12 minutes and all other Senators for seven, on which Senators may share time, by 167 Order of 7 October 2009. Business [Senator Donie Cassidy.] agreement of the House, and the Minister shall be called upon not later than 1.50 p.m. for concluding comments; No. 2, Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 1 but not earlier than 2 p.m. and adjourn not later than 5 p.m., on which spokespersons may speak for 20 minutes and all other Senators for 12, on which Senators may share time, by agreement of the House; and No. 28, Private Members’ motion No. 35 re national transport regulator, to be taken at 5 p.m. and conclude not later than 7 p.m. Senator Frances Fitzgerald: Recent disclosures of excesses at FA´ S and yesterday’s events involving the Ceann Comhairle and ministerial expenses can only be described as a line in the sand as to how the Oireachtas and Ministers should do their business and how hard earned public money should be spent. The issue of reform must be on the agenda. The Ceann Comh- airle has reached the correct decision to resign. He is the third highest officeholder in the Oireachtas and his position was untenable. Fine Gael believes he should step down today rather than wait for a week and we need to get on with the serious business of dealing with the challenges facing the country. It is important that the Ceann Comhairle’s position is not seen in isolation. It is symptomatic of the culture of waste and lavishness of the years of the Celtic tiger. I spoke yesterday about the new FA´ S legislation. While we need to see signs of reform we cannot see it in that legislation. Will the Leader invite the Tańaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment into the House to explain how we will get value for money from FA´ S, why she will not have a more open process for the appointments to its board, and why she will not use an Oireachtas committee to consider the appointees rather than rely on ministerial decision? This is the wrong approach. If the Government were serious about reform it would take a different approach. This is just one example of an opportunity for reform which has not been taken. We are asking members of the public to tighten their belts. Yesterday Senator Alex White asked a very reasonable question about the Government’s approach to the McCarthy report and the taxation report. We have not seen leadership in respect of the hard decisions that must be taken. The workers in Aer Lingus who are about to lose their jobs will get no golden handshake or deferred resignation. There were scenes of great distress at Intel among the employees who were told yesterday they were losing their jobs. I said we need a debate on job protection, job creation and support for employers. I call again for the Tańaiste to come to the House for a serious debate on those unemployment queues and the proactive decisions the Government needs to make to help those on those queues which are increasing daily. Senator Joe O’Toole: I wish to raise a point of order which is no way a challenge to the Cathaoirleach’s ruling on the incident that occurred on the Order of Business yesterday. There is some confusion which I can understand from all points of view. I do not think that Senator Harris’s initial contribution contravened the laws of the House. Will the Committee on Pro- cedure and Privileges, CPP, consider this? The convention was that if somebody outside the House was attacked it was unfair because he or she could not defend him or herself and it would be correct to intervene. We often congratulate people outside the House, which we might not like but which we accept. There is, however, a rarely used constitutional entitlement to privilege in these Houses to name somebody or something outside the House in a way that would not be appropriate outside the Chamber. I do not wish to challenge the Cathaoirleach and I do not seek an immediate response but it would be helpful for the CPP to discuss and clarify this issue because there is genuine confusion about it. 168 Order of 7 October 2009. Business In the course of his second intervention Senator Harris, whom I have known for 30 years, in defending one public servant managed to have a go at another one in this House. I have watched the Clerk of this House operate over the years and know that she has done so without fear or favour to any group although sometimes to our irritation. She is an extraordinary resource and has our full confidence. Senators: Hear, hear. Senator Joe O’Toole: I do not blame the Cathaoirleach in any way but the initial issue needs to be sorted out because the uncertainty has grown over the years. Afterwards yesterday people discussing the matter wondered what exactly is the position. We need to discuss this matter. Taking up the issue raised by Senator Fitzgerald, we need to have a broad discussion on the economy. We need to hear another view on the tax reform group and the McCarthy report, issues which we have not discussed. We must discuss how we deal with this society. It is not just an economy, it is a society of people. We must achieve a balance between getting the economy right and treating all the people fairly. We need to recognise that people cannot be steamrolled. I resent and reject the media question about whether the Government has the bottle. It is very easy to have the bottle to steamroll over people who cannot articulate their points of view, do not have a voice or solid representation. It is not a question of bottle but fairness and equity and considering the issue from all points of view. It would be very helpful to have a general debate covering the tax reform report, the McCarthy report and related matters so that people can say how they see the economy going. The Government cannot afford to do business sitting in an ivory tower in Merrion Street talking down to people without getting its hands dirty. It needs to get down and dirty or else we can rent the space outside the Kildare Street gate from now until Christmas because there will be some group out there every week and that will grow and grow. We need to head that off at the pass. An Cathaoirleach: In regard to Senator O’Toole’s point about yesterday’s Order of Business, we can take this matter up at the CPP. It is a well-established precedent of both Houses that references to people outside the House, including public officials, are not permitted. The Chair has always ruled that persons outside the House should not be referred to by name or in any way that would make them identifiable.

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