The Skating Lesson Podcast Transcript The Skating Lesson Interview with

Jenny Kirk: Hello, and welcome to The Skating Lesson podcast where we interview influential people from the world of figure skating so they can share with us the lessons they learned along the way. I’m , a former US ladies competitor and a three-time world team member.

Dave Lease: I’m David Lease. I was never on the world team, I’m a far cry from the pewter medal, but I am a figure skating blogger and a current adult skater.

Jenny: This week, we had a few technical issues that we’re so sorry about…

Dave: We had BOOT PROBLEMS!!

Jenny: Boot problems, would have told us! We had some technical issues, so we can only give you guys the audio portion of our interview with our guest this week, Rudy Galindo. But thank you for hanging with us, and we’re gonna try to come back next week with a stronger interview where you can actually see our guest in addition to hearing him. Or her.

Dave: Well, this week, we are absolutely thrilled to welcome Rudy Galindo to the show. Rudy Galindo is best known for being the 1996 US national champion. He was a pro skater for many years and about every competition known to man. He was on Champions on Ice for well over a decade. And he was also a two-time US national champion in pairs with .

Jenny: And it should be noted – Dave and I did a lot of research prior to this interview. Dave speed read – it was amazing – Rudy’s book in a night and a half in between his lunch break, his this or that, it was kind of impressive. And I of course watched a bunch of Rudy’s tapes, and we both researched a bunch of articles. And we went into this interview really with one impression of Rudy, and I think perhaps it was an inaccurate perception.

Dave: Yeah. I think, looking back, on my image of Rudy as a child, you know, Rudy really came to the forefront in the mid ‘90s, I believe I was about ten at the time, and the story was all about Rudy being the first openly gay male American skater. And, you know, how he was the champion for being gay and self-acceptance. And I’m curious to know what the viewers and the listeners are going to think. But I’m wondering if maybe Rudy was created to tell more of a story and that the media almost used Rudy to tell their own narrative. And while I think he is very proud of who he is and very appreciative, and I think you’re really gonna enjoy listening to Rudy, I’m left wondering if perhaps some of the narrative about Rudy was a little bit more created by agents and handlers than from Rudy himself.

Jenny: Yeah, and we should know – we really enjoyed talking to Rudy, we enjoyed this interview, and again, thank you for being patient with us with some of our technical issues, and we hope that you guys will enjoy the interview.

[Rudy Galindo enters]

Jenny: So, Rudy, thank you so much for being here, we’re so happy to have you.

Rudy Galindo: It’s nice to be here.

Jenny: Congratulations, you’re going to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Nationals, right? [This interview was done pre-2013 nationals and published much later] Rudy: Yes, yes, correct.

Jenny: That’s so exciting. So, I just want to start off by saying that Dave and I – we’re such huge fans of your skating. You’re just such a great performer. We’re both fans of your professional career, particularly. And I think you always came up with the most unique and innovative programs. One year, you dressed as a clown. Another year, you were – I think you were like a bio___ and your arms were the strings. And the – who could forget your Village People program? So, I’m wondering – how did you come up with such unique and innovative show programs?

Rudy: What year did we tour? Was I doing Send in the Clowns?

Jenny: No, we toured 2004-2005 season.

Rudy: 2004 – what did I do that year? Did I do YMCA?

Jenny: I think you did it one year, yeah.

Rudy: Ah, okay. Yeah. How do I talk about that – you know, the YMCA – I just remember, it was just like a – Tommy Collins wanted a fast upbeat number. He said, “just come with a fast, upbeat number.” And so I just thought, you know, I was just listening to music, and you know, I just thought – oh, my God, the Village People. You know, the gay – the gay group, you know, of the eighties and stuff. I thought it was fun, you know, so of course the YMCA and In The Navy. So I had – I did a medley of it, and I’m like – okay, you know, I could start out with a navy costume and strip down to do like YMCA. You know, something fun like an old fashioned bathing suit type thing.

Dave: Would you try to outdo yourself and become more outrageous?

Rudy: Yeah, the undertone, you know, just like some of the arm movements and stuff when I did, you know, the YMCA and, you know. Because I was comfortable with who I was – well, who I am, who I was – and I’m dead! And so I just thought it would be a fun thing to play on my sexuality and make fun of the group and just have fun.

Jenny: The audience always definitely liked you. And where did you get those fun silver pants? Because we loved those.

Rudy: Which – oh, yeah, what year did I skate to that year?

Dave: At the world pro, you did Dancing with Myself, and you wore those silver…

Rudy: That’s right. Oh, yeah yeah yeah. Dance with Myself, Billy Idol.

Dave: So, where did you find the pants?

Rudy: Where did I find the pants? You know, I think it was in either West Hollywood or in the Castro Port. A lot of my shirts and stuff I got from like West Hollywood, the gay area over at the Castro.

Dave: Okay. So we have, like, a really fun time imagining you coaching. So, what are you like as a coach? Are you a strict coach?

Rudy: You know what, I’m a fun coach. I remember when I started, like I was a part-time coach for about fifteen years, now I’ve been a full time coach for about seven. And I remember, like, probably the second year into my full-time coaching, they were talking about some of the LA coaches – they would go to LA for a week and stuff. I’d set them up, the lessons, and they would go, “oh, good, certain coaches are so strict and mean and they get the kids to do stuff.” And they said, “why don’t you be strict with our kids?” Because I was kind of fun- loving and stuff. I hated being taught by a coach that was screaming, and you know, top-of-the-line. I just rebelled, you know. So, then I started getting angry at them, you know, just like if they were doing jumps and, you know, kind of raising my voice, and finally, the parents would like go, “mmm, we like you the other way. We like the nice Rudy.” You know, and I think that just works for me, because all my coaches from Colleen Blackmar – she was really strict. She was my first coach, and she taught me all the basics and she was amazing. But she had me in tears every day, and when I had – when I went to my second coach, Jim Hulick, he was just so laid back and just calm. And then my third coach – when he passed away, Ricky Inglesi, was a very calm coach. And then he died, and then when I went to singles, I took from a trial run with – I don’t wanna name any names of coaches, but I tried these two coaches. They team-taught together, and I was twenty-five years old, and they were – I took from them when they were about six months in. And they were screaming from the top of their lungs while I was training my programs, and embarrassing me, and just yelling at me. They’ll walk off – at internationals, they’d walk off practice sessions if I missed like one jump or something. They’d leave the stands. And my – I don’t need this, you know. And I didn’t like that, so my sister said – just finish out the year with them, and we’ll find you a new coach. And I’m like – look, I don’t want any other coach anymore, and I just – I just wanna take from you to my sister, you know. And she’s very calm and loving and she basically – growing up, she was always there on the sidelines coaching me anyway. So I thought this would be the best fit. But bottom line is, I don’t teach, you know, really strict and stuff. And I’m fun and everyone just loves it.

Dave: So how did it come about that you’re now coaching Kristi Yamaguchi’s daughter Emma? How did this…

Rudy: Yeah, that was – that was funny. We – Kristi and I last year when we got inducted into the San Jose Sports Hall of Fame here in San Jose, we were together. And I remember Carole Yamaguchi coming to me and says, “oh, we wanna call you because we want Emma to take lessons from you. We heard you’re a very good technical coach in the area.” And I’m like, “oh, thanks!” And so I guess Emma tried out with Kristi’s coach, and she was too strict, and they said, “I guess Emma had her first lesson – one lesson with Christy Ness, and I guess she was like really strict on her in their first lesson, and I guess she turned away crying and ran to her mom.” So then I did – then I called Kristi up, and I said, “okay, this Thursday.” And she said, “okay.” So we met for a lesson, and Kristi and Carole, her mom, and Brett Hedican were in the stands in the trial run. It was – I guess it was a test run, you know.

Jenny: Were you nervous?

Rudy: I was! I was like they were just in this stands just watching, and I was like – okay, you know. And she just started skating, so it was like, you know, the swizzles, the one-foot glides and stuff. And I was shaking! I was like – what, this is crazy! You know, I have kids doing double axels and I’m like – oh wait, why am I so nervous? And I was nervous teaching her, but I didn’t realize because they didn’t tell me on a trial basis of whether Emma liked me. And so afterward, the lesson, they go, “oh, that was a great lesson.” And they said, “Emma, do you like Rudy?” And she was like, “mhmm,” you know.

Jenny: Awww, that must have felt so good!

Rudy: Yeah, it was, and I was like – oh, I guess it was a trial. And they go, “well, I guess you’re her coach now!” So, I’m like, “oh, okay, great!”

Jenny: It’s like winning a competition.

Dave: Is Emma anything like Kristi as a skater, or…

Rudy: Well, I don’t remember Kristi, like I’ve seen little video clips of her at that age. And you know, she’s just doing lunges and stuff, but I don’t – you know, I really don’t rush it. I mean, Emma’s right now been skating just like a year now, and she’s up to a nice toe loop, so, you know…

Jenny: Oh, good for her. Rudy: Everyone’s different. You know what I mean? You have phenoms at three years old around here, and you know, and you have one’s that have to work harder. So you never know…

Dave: So what is Kristi like as a skating mom? Is she anything like Carole, or is Carole still running the show, or…

Rudy: Carole actually brings her on Mondays to Freemont, Emma, once in a while. And them sometimes Kristi will bring her. And Kristi will skate because I think she’s doing some skating Disson shows, so she’s trying to keep in shape. So she’ll skate around during her, Emma’s, lesson, but Kristi is an amazing skating parent. She’s just laid back, she’s just like – whatever! But Emma’s first competition in the summer – I guess, when I was warming Emma outside, the whole family was there. And all the coaches were going, oh my God, Kristi’s gonna pass out there! She is so nervous! This is a level Basic Skills 2, you know, one foot glides. And she goes – oh, my God! And then Kristi’s like, “I am so nervous, I am gonna pass out, you know?” She goes, “this is worse than at world championships.”

Jenny: That’s so funny. Well, Rudy, when we talk about Kristi and world and everything, for a long time, you were best known as a pair skater. You and Kristi winning two national titles. And in many ways, you guys were really an unlikely pairing. You jumped in opposite directions so you were mirror pairs. You were both really meritorious as singles skaters, which we rarely, if ever, see. And you were really tiny on the ice, so you had a unique aesthetic. So how did you guys pair up?

Rudy: Well, I was, let’s see, after novice men, I was twelve years old, and then I turned thirteen. And I was in – I went to junior men because once you win nationals, you know, you have to go up. And I was also tiny and skinny – I was a bag of bones. And my sister skated pairs. And I used to watch her, and I’m like, “ooh, this looks like fun!” So I was like, just to tease, like, “oh, I wanna skate pairs!” And everyone was just laughing, and they’re like – there’s no way in hell that you could, you know, lift anyone, because you’re just like – I was like four foot seven or four foot eight. I don’t know, and then like, this skinny. And they just kind of laughed it off, you know, and I was like, “no, seriously, I wanna skate, it looks like fun.” Because I’m watching my sister. And then, they said – well, if we could find a girl for you and stuff, and I remember going to public sessions and warming up, and there was this little Asian girl skating around. And she was SO tiny. And she was doing like flat-footed, cheated double flips, double lutzes, and I’m like...

Jenny: Kristi had cheated jumps? I love it!

Rudy: I would say – I would tease them and be like, “but the pairs, the pairs throws got all her jumps clean.” You know!

Jenny: Except her triple sal!

Rudy: Oh, no, she’s not – but I got blamed for her triple sal because…

Jenny: We were gonna ask you that!

Dave: Yeah!

Rudy: Yeah, I think Christy Ness blames me for it because we had such a nice throw triple salchow, she blamed the timing issue on her triple sal. I’m like, I go, “no, she learned the triple sal in novice, and then we did throw triple sal in juniors. So don’t…”

Jenny: Don’t blame me! I hope that she is watching this video because you had such a beautiful triple sal, and she…

Rudy: And it’s funny because I’m now teaching Emma the salchow, and [Kristi] goes, “ooh, I think that’s better than my salchow!”

Jenny: I love it! So in 1987, you guys, you and Kristi, went to the world junior championships. And you won the men’s title, and you guys got the bronze in the pair event. And the following year, you guys go back and you win the pair title and Kristi wins the ladies title. And I can only imagine just – how busy your days must have been back then, juggling a pair career and a single career. So what was an average day like for you in 1987 or 1988?

Rudy: You know, and I tell these kids, too, the ones I teach and the parents complaining about, you know, money, and you know, and skating and lessons, and I’m just like – okay, you know how your day – oh I used to walk to school ten miles, and you know. And I’m like, “listen to this, like, I skated six to eight hours a day,” because you know, Jennifer, we had to – we started out at five in the morning with figures – and hour of figures – then we had an hour freestyle, and then the ice cut, then another hour of figures, and then another hour of freestyle, and then we had another hour of pairs. And then Kristi and I would go back in the afternoon for another hour and a half of pairs. So basically, and then, basically that’s like six-and-a-half, seven, eight – sometimes eight hours a day on the ice. And then, you know, the figure booths and this and that, so my kids, like, some of them are like just getting two hours in, and it’s like all tired, and it’s like, “oh, let me tell you about the days when we did eight hours, you know.”

Jenny: Right? I can’t even imagine.

Rudy: Yeah, it was hard. It was – and like, sometimes we would go home, take a nap, and then go back for another hour and a half of pairs in the afternoon. So it was a long day, but that’s – you know, that’s all I did, you know. That’s all I craved, and why I was skating was my whole world. So that’s – that’s what I lived.

Dave: Now, you and Kristi were always such fan favorites. So when did you really know that you and Kristi had something really special together?

Rudy: I think when we did our – when we first got together, we went into novice pairs, and we did a competition in Los Angeles. It was just like one of this big LA – you know, Jennifer, one of those big LA competitions?

Jenny: Uh-huh, those big – are nerve-wracking.

Rudy: And we were just – and I didn’t realize how good we were until, like, because we were so tiny and skinny, and I still – I got a ______. I remember we had a throw double sal, and I think – oh, we had side-by-side doubles lutzes. Like, in the early eighties, that’s like, “oh, my God!” you know. And I guess the crowd went crazy after we finished, and we won the novice pair event against the LA pairs. And that’s when I kind of knew things were working out, and I could tell. Like, Kristi’s mom knew it to. She’s like, “wow, you know, you get so many compliments and you won against these LA, seasoned LA novice teams, you know.” So I think that we added more lutzes and we were getting more into the pairs. And I think that’s when I figured out when we first started in novice that we had something special.

Dave: So you actually lived with Kristi Yamaguchi. So would you, you know, wake up, eating at the breakfast table, eating your Cheerios with everyone.

Rudy: Oh, no! Oh, no, it’s not eating at the table! It was like four o’clock wakeup call and then we had to leave because we had to be on the ice at five o’clock for figures in San Matteo. So we left about 4:25 [AM], so it was one of those things where I woke up, took a shower, and I walked to the kitchen. And Kristi had two bowls of cereal, and it was – and like, two drops of milk because she didn’t want the milk to spill in car. So, it was like two drops. I’m like, “girl, I need more milk than that!” You know, so it was like two drops, two drops, two drops, and then – so we’re eating on the way while she’s – Kristi’s mom was driving us to the rink, and we’re eating our cereal. But I did live with them probably for about four or five years. I had, like, my own room. You know, it was like two months solid there and maybe like a week back with my mom, you know, because my mom – she couldn’t drive a lot of times because she was sick and mental health issues. And my dad was gone as a truck driver for a week, hauling rocket fuels. So – and my sister was in the shows and working. So it was just easier for me to live at their house. So we’d go rink to rink.

Dave: Is that like a little too much togetherness when you’re spending literally every single minute together of the day? Does it get intense?

Rudy: No, I mean, not really. We never really thought – I just remember, like, I was trained by the pair coach to think, no matter what, like if I threw Kristi or whatever, that it’s always the man’s fault, you know, on the throws or whatever and stuff. So I really couldn’t get mad at her, you know. We hardly ever missed, and I knew – like, we never fought much at all. Like, we were always quiet. We never said anything to each other, really, you know, when we were skating and training. But it was more like a good relationship, brother and sister. You know, we were always in the back doing our homework in the backseat, you know. And that was about it, you know. And we never fought.

Jenny: Just go out and do your job.

Rudy: Yeah, and I knew, it was like – I had to do my job in the pairs because she was so dang consistent that, you know, it was like a competition. Like I knew where we were going side-by-side triples, and this and that. I knew I just had to land it because I knew she was going to land it. And I remember, if we stepped out or missed a triple or throw triple sal, I remember Kristi’s mom always say – okay, you gotta do, right after the long, whatever you missed, you gotta do three times in a row. So if a lift came down, we had to do a lift and then come back and do another lift and another lift. Or triple twist, triple twist, and I was like – so, I really didn’t wanna do that, so I made sure I landed everything.

Jenny: Well, it’s funny, too, Rudy, because I think we read an article when we were researching this where Kristi said that you were the most consistent skater she had ever seen. That you guys would go in to do side-by- side jumps, and she said she didn’t even have to look at you because she knew you were going to land it.

Rudy: I knew she was gonna land it. I was like – oh, I’d better land it because I don’t wanna be doing this over and over like three times.

Jenny: Right, three times around, sure. I love that. So in the ’89, in the ’90 season, you decided to forego your singles career to focus on the pair, but Kristi stayed it in. She continued to juggle both disciples. So why did you decide to step away from your single career, and did you find it odd or hard that she was still doing both disciplines?

Rudy: I just lost interest, for some reason. I did senior, one senior level, and I did really well. And then I just loved pairs so much – it was so exciting for me, and I just, and I thought we were, you know, going to be national champions. So I just gave it up because I was losing interest in the singles. And I knew that we were gonna be like first the next year, like first or second in the senior level. And I’m like, you know, I just wanna focus on the pairs. And I knew she was so good in singles. And I knew, you know – I didn’t even give her that ultimatum. I knew she would just continue. But I’m like, you know, I’m just gonna put more time, so I would just run, instead of my singles programs, I would run – while she was training singles, I would play the music and do the full run-throughs with the triples and pretend lifts, you know, through run-throughs. So, but I just knew that – I was losing a little interest in my singles career because I just loved pairs so much. And I think her decision, you know, is just – she liked to do both. But, you know, it just caught up to her. It’s so hard to do, you know, at those competitions, at worlds and stuff, you know. Figures, you know, we had figures, and she had to go, race off to short program practice in singles and then short program practice in pairs, long program practice, short program practice – and it was just like nonstop the whole week. And I think it was just wearing on her.

Jenny: Well, yeah, you talk about that in, at the 1990 world championships.

Rudy: Yeah, it was hard for her. Jenny: Yeah, she stumbled. And outside of just being her partner and, you know, not wanting to see her do poorly, did that worry you at all? That maybe she couldn’t juggle both? Did you feel like it may portend that she would have to make a choice and perhaps…

Rudy: I knew, yeah. I knew in the back of my mind it just – it was sad, and I was trying so hard. And I knew when we were touring with Champions on Ice, Tom Collins that one year – it was ’89 – and I knew we were just kind of pulling apart. And I was trying everything to hold onto what we had. Because I – you know, you hear it through the grapevine and you hear gossip and stuff. And Kristi was, you know, hanging out with a different crowd, and I just knew that even when we were training in Canada, like certain skaters were pulling her away from me. You know, like I lived in an apartment by myself, and she lived with her coach. And I just knew that they were grabbing her, you know, and just pulling her away from me. And I knew in the back of my head that this might be the last year, you know. And so, when it came time to it, it was just – it was just so devastating. You know, even though I knew it was coming, it was just – it was just heartbreaking.

Jenny: Well, I can imagine! How did you finally find out? What was that conversation like, and what was – I just can’t even imagine what that initial reaction would be, because you kind of know it’s coming, but you don’t want it. It’s almost like a, you know, a romantic breakup.

Rudy: It was like a marriage, I mean, you know. I remember getting up after the tour in, the ’90 tour. We got a phone call that said we’re gonna be meet Dublin, pleasant – that’s where we trained in pairs. And there was a judge, and I guess, that was a mediator. You know, and so I just remember my dad sitting there and just – my dad was blind, he was getting blind. And he – I said, you know, I was gonna be meeting with Kristi. And we didn’t tell him, we just kind of knew. So my sister and I drove to Dublin, and we sat down in this room, and they just explained that it’s just getting too hard for Kristi, and so we’re just gonna – we’re gonna stop the pairs. You know, and I was just – I couldn’t say anything. I was just so – you know how when your heart just drops to the ground and you’re like, and you don’t know what to say. You know, and then Laura and I just walked to the car, and I remember just crying all the way home to my dad. And it was – that was the hardest thing was – because my dad was kind of holding on just because he loved the pairs. He just, you know, he just loved watching us skate together. And I just remember going home and telling him that we’re done, you know and stuff. And I just remember my dad putting his head down like this, and a tear – that was the first time I ever saw a tear come down his face. You know, and I was like, and it just got me angry, you know.

Jenny: Yeah, because you don’t want to see your parent suffer, but it’s something that’s completely out of your control.

Rudy: And it just seemed like he went downhill from there, you know what I mean? Like, my dad was holding onto life because he wanted to see us at the Olympics, and you know. But that was really hard, and it was like a marriage. And I knew – they said, why didn’t you go into pairs and find another partner? And I’m like – you know what, I can’t. It was such a great marriage, and I couldn’t find anyone as good as Kristi, you know. That small, that compact, and so consistent and so good.

Jenny: It was like you guys were made for each other.

Rudy: Yes. And so, I was like, you know, I’m – I don’t mind going in the shows now. I have the junior world title, maybe I’ll just come back and try senior men’s and, you know, just kind of play around with that. So that’s what our decision was. We had a mediator.

Dave: So now, you two really, you know, grew up together, and you write in your book that you actually came out to Carole Yamaguchi. And in your book, you said, quote, “she was in total denial. I imagine that some of what was going through Carole’s mind had to do with skating. Given the all-American image of the US Association, my being gay might be a major liability in a pairs career that seemed to have limitless possibilities.” And then you said, “for the rest of the time Kristina and I skated together, I always felt like things were on edge and that if I did anything wrong, Carole would send me packing. Our relationship, which for me had always been based on love, was now based on fear.” Now, that whole quote is really about Carole. So, what role did Carole play in your skating career?

Rudy: She was almost everything, you know. She was – where we trained in San Matteo was – it was like in a mall. So all the parents would sit like right on the rail, by the chair. It was like a food court? So she was right there, and she was always like – our pair coach wasn’t there, she was training singles there. So every time we were skating pairs there, she was basically our coach there. And she was like our coach and teaching us things, you know. Different death spirals and stuff. So she was like our little coach. We would go to her by the rail because we had no pair coach there. And she was like a coach, she was like a mother because she took care of me. I lived with her, you know, and she taught me a lot of stuff. And, you know, a friend, a mother, and a coach. All – she was everything to me. And so that’s why, you know, when I explained to her, you know, it was, you know, that I was gay, it was just, you know, this is who I am. And it was like, I was so scared and nervous. And, you know, and I just wanted her to accept me for who I was and who I am.

Jenny: Understandable.

Dave: Okay. And does she – was she kind of the final decider in ending your pairs career? I mean, what role did she really play in that? You know, was she making…

Rudy: I think there was a preparation because Kristi was so tired that she, you know, Christy agreed, Christy Ness, you know, was saying that it’s affecting her singles career, it’s making her tired because the senior ladies are always like, towards the end. And so it was a collaboration between I think Kristi, Carole, and Christy Ness. That were, you know, it was coming down to – she needs to focus on one. And I think it was gonna be the singles, of course.

Dave: I mean, it had to be really hard for you after, you know, seeing her immediately, you know, become world champion after you break up. And you wrote – and you told Christine Brennan in her book Inside Edge, “I can’t lie. She walks into this rink and everyone wants an autograph, and I’m just sitting there. I don’t want to break down and cry, but when Kristi comes in, I get upset. I get upset with the success that she’s had while I’m struggling. I kind of paid my parents back for all the money they spent in skating if Kristi and I had made it.” So what was it like to watch her succeed after you two broke up? Because it wasn’t like it happened gradually – she went on and she won like immediately after you… so…

Rudy: I remember that Skate America, too! It was just like ___ days. I mean, it was like jealousy. I was hurt, you know, it’s like hard. It’s like – you know how you break up with an, like somebody, in like a marriage, divorce. You know, it’s like you don’t want anything good to happen to them.

Jenny: Right! You want them to get fat and ugly.

Rudy: Yeah! Can’t get any better, you know, and then she started succeeding. That was like – oh, my God, you know.

Jenny: It almost makes you feel worse about yourself.

Rudy: Yeah. And I just remember – it was so funny, because I remember going in pairs and stuff. And I always wanted Kristi to be – it’s like simple things like this. Like putting her hair up in a ballet bun for pairs because her ponytail kept hitting me on the triple twist on the way down, like you know, my eyes and stuff, you know. And you know how Kristi always had that ponytail?

Jenny: Uh-huh, the poofed ponytail.

Rudy: And I go – can we try stuff, for like two years – can we try a nice ballet bun? You know, and they always said, “no, no, no, she’s known for the ponytail.” And I remember that Skate America – she wore a ballet bun. Jenny: Isn’t it always those little things that get you?

Rudy: The little things – I’m like sitting there in front of the TV, like – she has a ballet bun! It was like – I felt it was like, oh, my God, is that a little dig at me? You know? But of course, just like – it’s like a marriage when you like get a divorce and stuff, there’s animosity and stuff, you know. But times have passed, and, you know, I was hurt then, and you know, but I think things work out for a reason, and I just – I think things are great now. It’s like almost full circle now.

Dave: So, when she won the Olympics, you actually allowed a film crew to film you watching the event. Why on earth would you let this happen, you know, given all the conflicting emotions? Like, why was this a good idea?

Rudy: I don’t know. I don’t know – I remember them, the TV station calling me and saying, “can we film you?” And I was like, “uh, okay.” And I’m like, “well, I guess I’m not on TV anymore, I might as well get some kind of fifteen minute fame.” I’m like – yaaay!

Jenny: Was it hard to suppress your emotions? I mean, because I’m sure there were so many conflicting emotions. You’re happy because part of you loves her, but then I’m sure there was jealousy somewhere, too. How was it to kind of suppress any emotion on your face?

Rudy: I was – you know what, I think I was, when she won and I was on TV, I think I was genuinely happy for her, like I was like – wow. She’s Olympic champion! I think the time – I think the on where I really got jealous and really sad and upset was when the Olympic trials, the nationals were in . And this is like a year and a half before we – after we split up. And she won that nationals in Florida, and I remember going to the – there was like the nationals party, but it was at the – ooh, what’s the place called, it’s not like Walt Disney World, but it’s like…

Jenny: Epcot?

Dave: Universal?

Rudy: I think Universal, yeah. And I remember, it was the crowd there, and then onstage, they announced all the Olympic team, the skaters. And I’m just in there, in the audience, and all the Olympic figure skating team went up on the stage and waved to the crowd. And I was just like – oh my God, I’m standing here in the crowd and not, you know, going up those stairs, too. And I think that was the most hurtful time.

Jenny: Well, yeah, because that was the Olympic team that you had imagined you guys were gonna be on. So – I mean, we talk about so much the ups and downs that you and Kristi have gone through. But really, your relationship I think is something that so many people can relate to. Any long-term relationship you have years of kind of turmoil. But it’s really a success because you seem to have mended any past heartbreaks. So how do you guys get to the point where you are today where you’re coaching her daughter?

Rudy: You know what, we’ve come to terms with everything a long time ago. I remember just – I remember just competing, and when I won the nationals in San Jose, I remember she was – I think she was getting inducted there. And she was in the audience, and I did the short program in San Jose, and I was third after the short. And then I went home, and she got inducted to the Hall of Fame, and we didn’t really get to talk much before the San Jose nationals. And she said that she went and she flew out back to , and then she – she landed at Stars on Ice, and I guess there goes, “oh, my God, do you know that Rudy just won the national championships?” And she’s like, “what?” You know, she was like so excited, they said. And she called me like right away, congratulating me, you know, about – for the win. And it was just so nice, and it was just like, a little bit of an ice breaker, you know. And we started talking and stuff. And then I turned pro, and we did a lot of world professional competitions together. And we were actually on Ice Wars on the same team. And we did a lot of competitions, so it was like, you know, things came full circle, and just kind of – it was like a mending spot, you know. We went our different roads, and you know, and then we just kind of came back together. And so – and when I found out that I was HIV positive, and I did the People Magazine article and stuff, and everyone found out, she was on Stars on Ice and we were on Champions on Ice, and I remember Tommy Collins was like, “Kristi’s on the phone, she wants to talk to you.” And it was just so nice and emotional call. That just really bonded us again, you know, close.

Jenny: Well, that’s great. And after you and Kristi broke up, you talk about your singles career, doing so well in San Jose. You really did focus on that career, but initially you had some tough years both on and off the ice. You lost your father, 1993. The following year, your brother and then a coach. And I can only imagine, just emotionally, how difficult that must have been to deal with that and then to have to skate. And understandably, you stumbled on the ice. Got an eight at nationals in 1995. So you kind of seem like you were done after that. You took eight months off, you were coaching. And then you decided to come back in ’96. And outside of the obvious, that it was in San Jose, was there something bigger that compelled you to come back? Because some may argue, you know, are you a masochist, putting yourself through this against after so many tough years both on and off the ice. So what was your mindset heading into the ’96 season?

Rudy: My mindset was – there was like really no set. You know what I mean? It was just like – I was, I remember coaching and coaching classes, and riding my bike because my car broke down. And I just remember riding back and forth, teaching, San Jose State and classes, and coaching some of my sister’s kids. And I just remember getting off the bike, and looking at – they put up the poster, and it said San Jose Nationals. You know, and it still was up in the air of like – am I gonna turn pro? Am I going to be doing, like, you know, Knott’s Berry farm, or…

Jenny: Right.

Rudy: And I was like – ooh, San Jose Nationals. Are you kidding me? I was like, when does it come to your hometown, you know, and especially San Jose. It was like – wow. That’s like unheard of. And so I’m like – oh, my God, I had in my head, I’m like, God maybe – because I really didn’t turn pro then, and I was like, everything was still up in the air. And I’m like – uh, and I talked to my sister. I’m like, “should I try to go for that nationals because it’s in our backyard basically?” And she’s like, “you know, if you really wanna do it, Rudy, I’m a hundred percent behind you. And you know, just do it.” And I just thought it’d be a good chance to be my last – like, the last nationals where my family actually could just drive down the road to the arena and watch me because they never could come to my nationals besides my sister. And I thought – ooh, that’d be fun for all my friends and my family to actually come and watch me. And I just remember going – you know what, I bet I could do this nationals and, you know, I’ll – I can be, because you know I’m the hometown guy, I could do – I could pop a double axel and they still would cheer. I just never…

Jenny: They’d just be so glad that…

Rudy: I’m like – yeah, hometown, you know when they announce your name that you’re from San Jose, , you know. And I’m like, ooh, watch, I could probably do a double axel and whatever and stumble, and they’d be like all raaah! A big roar and I’m look – ooh, this could be fun, you know. So I just remembered, you know, I just decided, I said – okay, I’m gonna go for it and I’m just gonna do it because it’s my backyard, and why pass up a chance, you know, nationals being there. And so, but I kind of wanted to look good in front of my friends and family, you know, so I just remember training really hard and just being focused and not having any pressure on me. You know, that was the one thing that I – was really good for me, it was like you know, no big deal. I was eighth the year before, and there was no – I wasn’t in the media guide, I – there was nothing. I just said, but the bottom line is that I wanted to look really good. So I was doing like twenty miles cycling a day, going to the gym, running complete full run-throughs of long programs because before I would like do almost full run-throughs but, you know, Jennifer, you’d skip a spin or something.

Jenny: Oh, always that layback spin at the end of my program!

Rudy: Yeah, or pretend like somebody got in your way and trip, and be like – ugh, you know! Jenny: Yes! Where there’s like no one on the ice at all!

Rudy: No one on the ice, and oh, darn it! And they’re like – um, nobody was on the ice there, you know!

Jenny: I saw someone, I swear!

Rudy: I know! And so I was like, I would do full – even to wear I was like screaming at the end because I’d do the full, like every single step for like, leading up to San Jose nationals and just training because I wanted to look good. So I think it, you know, worked out for me.

Jenny: It definitely worked out for you.

Dave: So, you didn’t start training until August, but now, your sister is the one at the boards with you. And she kind of has to, you know, push you into gear. Now what was that like? Because my sister and I can’t even go to lunch with each other without getting in a fight. So…

Rudy: I – you know, my sister and I, I think we’re just close because she basically raised me from a little boy because, you know, my mom was in and out of the hospitals with her mental issues. And my dad was gone, so my sister – she didn’t even have a license, and she was driving me back and forth to the arena. And so I think she was like a mother, a friend, and just always there watching my skating, and very supportive. So, you know, you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. So I think we just got along. And we got along, too, because when she was competing as a young girl, I was always supportive. I was in the stands, just cheering her on. So I think, you know, both of us competing and cheering each other on – it just brought us close together.

Jenny: Yeah, you understand each other.

Rudy: We understand, you know, what we’re going through, and you know, it’s just the love there.

Jenny: And when you got to the event, the commentators started talking about how you were winning every practice in San Jose, and it seemed like you were the one to beat. So, for so many years when you struggled with inconsistency, and one of the things I noted when we were on tour was that you are the most consistent skater. You are the hardest worker. You would go out there every night and skate so well. I always admired you for that. So, you talk about having no pressure. Did you think at all that you were the one to beat as the commentators spoke about? Did you go in, when you got to the event, thinking – hey, I could win this?

Rudy: I didn’t think I could win it. I was just hoping for that third spot. I just remember, and I didn’t know that I was winning every practice. As we talked about before, you know, I wanted a clean programs, like in August, like right when I got my long program, full run-throughs and just making sure everything was clean. And you know, and I think riding that bike twenty miles a day, you know, for my cardio, it was so easy. I’m like – oh, my gosh. So I remember just doing clean programs the whole week in San Jose and not realizing because I didn’t watch anybody else. You know, anybody like or anybody because they were in different groups. And so I didn’t know that like Brian – and were watching and saying, you know, whatever, that I was winning the practices because I didn’t watch them. You know, I just left right after my practice. So I just kind of just didn’t even, you know, think of that. But then, the pressure, the consistency continued for the world championships. But I felt more pressure there especially in the initial round because we had to do an initial round at worlds. And that was the hard part, and – but I was still consistent. But now they were thinking I was like a one-hit wonder, and so actually…

Jenny: I was gonna ask you that.

Rudy: Ugh, I know, and I was like – oh, gosh, you know. People were saying that to me, and I’m like, before worlds, and even though I was skating clean in practice before worlds, this one-hit wonder thing was like – it was bugging me. So I was like – okay, so my sister set up a sport psychologist, you know, like once a week. Like a month before worlds, like every day, you know [audio cuts out] my sessions, and that really helped. Jenny: Just to get you in that zone.

Rudy: Yeah, to get in my zone, you know. So that was great. So I did have to go to a sports psychologist before worlds because that really got to me when they were saying I was only good at nationals.

Dave: Now, going back to nationals, in the short program, you actually were the only one to do a triple axel- triple toe. You skated the clean program that I think other competitors who finished ahead of you, both Todd Eldredge and Scott Davis, they did not have as good of a program. Yet your marks were 5.4 to 5.7. And there were a couple 5.4s. So skating so well – did the marks matter to you? Were you nervous about that third spot based on your marks? What was your reaction?

Rudy: No. I wasn’t mad at all, if you can see on the video, I wasn’t mad. I was excited that I was in third and excited to get like a couple 5.8s, you know, cause it’d been a while. I think the last time I got like 5.8s was in like junior worlds when I won, you know. And I was like – ooh, 5.8! And ooh – and then it showed that, and the crowd was like booing and stuff, and I kind of looked at the crowd like – you know, these are good, I’m excited! But then I got third after that, and then I just remember Laura was – my sister was stressed out. And she told me after, you know, because she was just praying because they only took top three that year to worlds. And she was like, “oh, my God, this is going to be so devastating if he drops to fourth and doesn’t make the world team.” You know, and even in the long program, I wasn’t thinking that I was gonna win. I remember going into my last spin and saying, “oh, my goodness, I think I’m gonna make the world team.” That’s all it was. “I think I’m gonna make the world team.” And that’s why when you see the 6.0s and then I looked down, and I saw – the computer showed that I won. It was just like, it was like – crazy!

Jenny: You had – you didn’t know. You were the last skater, you didn’t know how Todd had skated or anybody else. You just went in blind?

Rudy: No – it’s so funny, because you know, I was last in that last group. And it was crazy. I remember going, putting my Walkman on after the six-minute warm-up, taking off my skates, and I actually fell asleep in a chair.

Jenny: You did not!

Rudy: Yeah, it was literally an hour after the warm-up before I skated.

Jenny: How were you so relaxed? Because usually skaters are just…

Rudy: I was listening to this music, and I was like, I just kind of going to sleep. And I knew in my heart because there was a monitor back there, and my sister was watching – standing there watching. And she was looking back at me, but she was giving me that look. She was watching like Dan Hollander doing something clean, or something. And I knew he was skating because I could – I heard my music but I just knew the skating order. And she looked at me and she gave me the smile, but she gave me the smile of like, “oh, crap.”

Jenny: Right? Can’t you always tell that smile where you’re like – you’re not fooling anybody!

Rudy: Yeah, yeah! The coach’s, you’re just like – oh, my God. You’re like smiling like – oh, you poor thing, you know.

Jenny: It’s the pity smile! And you’re like, it would be better to do anything!

Rudy: Yes, I was just going – oh, well, you know, just do what you have to do, you know. Then I knew that like – and then I think Scott Davis skated [audio cuts out], and I knew he was on, and I knew of course my sister gives me that smile, but she gave me smile that he had a couple mistakes. You can just see in the eyes, you know, like… Jenny: Right – yes, I know exactly.

Rudy: And then, and then, I was like, okay, well you know what, just go out there, and just do what you did in practice, no big deal, you know. So, that was it.

Dave: Now when you won your national title, your long program actually beat the NCAA basketball tournament that night. And skating was an extremely big deal back in 1996. I think for the skaters today, it’s almost difficult to imagine how big skating was. When did you realize that you were famous? And what was it like becoming famous overnight?

Rudy: That was the strange part because I remember leaving the arena after I won, and leaving San Jose, and I was just – and of course, my sister and her fiancé were parked in the parking lot. But we were walking with everybody, you know, just in the road, and people were just screaming out their door – their windows and their doors and, you know. Even the Harley Davidson guys were going, “yeah, Rudy!” you know. I’m like, oh my goodness, you know! That was so hard, and we had to have security guards [audio cuts out] because, you know, everybody was coming up to us and the car wouldn’t let us out and autographs. And I’m like – oooh, I got my little fifteen minutes of fame here! And then I woke up in the morning at my house, and I just remembered, and my mom’s like, “umm, go and look out your window.” And there was like ten cameramen and paparazzi and like a whole bunch of paparazzi outside my window. Like, what am I going to do that day, you know? It was strange.

Jenny: Oh, my God. How did you adjust to that, though? I can imagine it would either kind of motivate you or freak you out.

Rudy: It was nice, it started getting tough doing a lot of the interviews like back-to-back, and getting hundreds of calls from this and this and this and trying to – and we didn’t have an agent then. And it was just getting really tough, and you could tell it was wearing on my nerves because I wanted to practice and train, and [audio cuts out] to the rink, and I was trying to do my normal training practice sessions, and they’re like all – well can you put a mic on and go through the long program? You know those mics, Jennifer.

Jenny: Yeah, you cannot skate with those mics.

Rudy: I can’t rotate on the side, you know, and they’re trying to do this and interrupt and they’d be like – okay, can you teach ‘em like over here and get this shot? And it was like interrupting me, you know. And it was kind of irritating sometimes because it was getting overwhelming. And I remember before worlds, like, I stepped on the ice, and they were – okay, go and do this, this. And I – the first time I really didn’t warm up, and I remember doing a triple lutz, and this was three weeks before worlds. And I twisted my ankle. I sprained my ankle on the tap of the triple lutz. And I was like, “ooooh, no.” And then I had to do a Russian competition right before worlds, and I did the short program, and I was such in pain that I just withdrew from the long and just got therapy. And I just started jumping one week before worlds.

Jenny: Wow.

Dave: Now you actually joined Champions on Ice briefly for a couple weeks between nationals and worlds. Were you doing your programs on tour then? How were you still preparing that…

Rudy: I was. I remember like Tom Collins, like – it was called Winter Tour. Jennifer, did you do Winter Tour?

Jenny: I didn’t, but you know what, I think one year you came to Boston, and this is funny, but my little sister had such a huge crush on you, and we saw you at the Four Seasons. And she – you were drinking tea, and she literally freaked out. She was so excited.

Rudy: Oh, my God, that’s so cute. Jenny: No, it wasn’t around when I skated.

Rudy: Oh, my God. It was called Winter Tour, and it was brief. And Tom Collins was like – [inaudible] “it’s before worlds, it’s too close.” And I still had my sprained ankle. And he’s all – just come in and do your, like, short program. You know, to Pachelbel’s Canon. And it was good that I did that because it really – doing my short program on Champions on Ice right before worlds just really helped with my style and performance, you know, when I hit worlds. You know, it was really fun and that was a good experience.

Jenny: Well, it…

Dave: Now, after worlds, when you joined Champions on Ice [audio cuts out] on the tour full time, by yourself, you’re not on as a pair, you’re on as Rudy. So, what was that whole experience like?

Rudy: It was so fun out there, I just loved touring. Right, Jennifer, didn’t you love touring?

Jenny: I did. You’re just taking care of – Tom Collins is just an awesome guy.

Rudy: I know, I know. And he – it was just so fun. It’s almost like, you know, when you get invited to these tours, don’t you feel like you’ve made it just for like, oh, my God, you know how jealous skaters are that you made it to his tour? Even asked, you know? And you know, you get the four-five star hotels…

Jenny: And it’s the bag – the bag with your number on it. I just remember that.

Rudy: It just [audio comes out] you always feel like a star. You feel like, you know, like, you just feel like a star. It was exciting, you know.

Jenny: It was. I remember that, too. So a year before you joined the tour as a single skater and your world was disrupted, you came out to Christine Brennan through her book, Inside Edge. So why did you choose to come out to Christine?

Rudy: I just wanted to be honest, and I remember her calling me up, and she wanted me [audio cuts out] and, you know, and during that time, I was just, you know, just being honest with who I was and, you know. And whatever, and you know, as you could say before, maybe it was like – okay, fifteen minutes of fame, here we go again. You know what I mean?

Jenny: Right.

Rudy: And then it just – it came out like right before nationals, didn’t it? When I won?

Jenny: Yeah, it did.

Rudy: Yeah, so, and I just remember going from there, and then I remember after I won and then going to do the press conference. And that was just like – oh, yeah, that’s what I – you know, I revealed a lot of stuff in Christine Brennan’s book. And then that was the first thing the guy goes – how does it feel to be the first openly gay, you know? And I’m like, “oh, yeah, okay, great, I guess.”

Jenny: Right, it’s something that I’m sure you don’t even think about ever, it’s just part of who you are.

Rudy: Yeah, it’s just something like – my sexuality or my Mexican-American, living in a trailer. And I’m like, whoa, whoa! You know?

Jenny: It’s like the Cliff Notes version of like anything stereotypical!

Rudy: I think they were looking for like – oh, how does it feel to be the first openly gay Mexican-American living in trailer? And I just remember in the press conference, like, with Laura, like, am I supposed to answer that or should we be celebrating something else? Or I guess it was a big thing, and I’m like, okay. “In Christine Brennan’s book, you know, you mentioned,” and I’m like, “okay, yeah, all right.” I’m gay, I get it! I live in a trailer!

Jenny: Right, it’s like there’s so much more to you. So what was the reaction, too, because I think you and I know so many people in the skating world who, they’re out but they don’t come out to the press. So what was the reaction from your peers? Were they supportive? Did anybody have anything to say about it?

Rudy: No, not really. I just, I think a lot of my friends that weren’t in skating and stuff, they knew at a young age because I was out to them. But like – and I just thought the whole, the skating world just knew and stuff, but it was like, whoops I made it big, and I won, and I was on TV and stuff, and then that’s when it – you know, they want a story, you know. “Oh, my God, you’re gay!” you know. So all my friends in skating – they all knew and stuff, so it was no big deal. But you know, and I don’t know who would not be, you know, out. You know, a lot of my friends were like straight, and together. You know, married like Liz Punsalan and Jerod Swallow, you know.

Dave: So, for a long time, you were really known as the gay skater. So, how weird was that? Because obviously…

Rudy: [audio makes it inaudible, but produces a lot of laughs from everyone]

Jenny: Right?

Dave: I mean, it was such an absurd title, you know, to be THE gay skater in skater in skating. I think that in Will and Grace, you know Jack says, he…

Jenny: Yeah, he’s the gay one.

Dave: He’s the gay one, and Karen goes, “gay one?”

Rudy: Like one? That was funny – I know, I know. You know – I don’t know, I just – it seems like back in those days, okay, what do we have? Jennifer, you know like all the – they’re all those straight boys, from .

Jenny: Right – so how was your relationship on tour with those guys?

Rudy: That was fine because, you know, I was – you know, Jennifer, I was the class clown, you know. [inaudible] teased over in the dressing room and stuff. And they just got a kick out of it – they got so used to it, they’re just like – oh, whatever it is, you know. You know, if I tucked it, or you know. Philippe Candeloro goes – oooooh, you know.

Jenny: And Philippe we all know, he’s gone out there!

Rudy: I know! Philippe likes anything that’s breathing, you know?

Jenny: Right, he’ll hit on anything.

Rudy: He’ll say anything! But it was just fun. It was like – I just loved teasing the guys in the dressing room, and we just had fun. And they were just like so used to it, they’re just like – oh, it’s Rudy.

Jenny: Right, it seems like you owned it, and you know. So in 1996, Rudy, you officially turned pro. And at the time, a San Jose Mercury article – it kind of insinuated that you were upset that US Figure Skating hadn’t chose to send you to Skate America for the start of the ’96-’97 season. I think instead you were sent to like Cup of Russia or Nation’s Cup. So in any way, did this influence your decision to turn professional? Did you feel slighted that you weren’t chosen for Skate America?

Rudy: You know, I got passed over Skate America a couple of times when I was – I remember one year at nationals, I was fifth, and I ended up to be first alternate to Skate America. And I remember Todd Eldredge was – I think was seventh that year at nationals. And he wasn’t even an alternate at Skate America. And someone got hurt, and they didn’t even call the first alternate, me. They chose Todd Eldredge over me to go to Skate America. And I remember that’s the first article I took out about Skate America – getting passed over. So of course I was, you know, mad about that, you know. Like, why are they not sending me to Skate America? I was always mad about that. But – and going back, I knew in the back of my head, like before San Jose nationals, this was gonna be my last nationals because that was my hometown, and that’s how I planned, you know. And I remember sitting down – like what am I going to do, what am I going to do? I really wanna turn pro because I – it was in my head that San Jose was my last nationals. And it was like my Olympics. And, you know, and it was like gambling. Like, I got all the contracts in shows and professional stuff coming up and contracts, and it was like gambling. What happens if I did compete at the nationals and got third or fourth the following year? Or didn’t even make the Olympic team, you know? All those contracts are gonna be like torn up. You know, so it’s basically like gambling with my money, and you know, it was like – no one to fold them and no one to walk away and no one to run. And I remember sitting down with Mr. Kwan, and he was like the last person to say, “you know, you’re such a good showman skater, you know, I think professional would be really good for you.” And that’s when they had all those world pros. They had like eleven professional competitions every year. And I’m like, you know, what? If this is – I really love performing, and I just didn’t want to train anymore. And I knew San Jose was my last song, you know.

Dave: Rudy, did you have such a feeling that if you come out in skating, all the endorsement opportunities will go away, you won’t be invited to shows, and you didn’t seem to have that experience, at least on the show level. Did it impact your professional career negatively or positively? Did you see yourself, you know, not being considered for endorsements when you turned professional because you were gay? Was it something that impacted you?

Rudy: No. I knew bottom line is that male skaters don’t get a lot of endorsements at all. Hardly any. Do you notice that, you know? It’s like you get a lot of professional competitions, contracts to like ice shows and whatever. But you know, I mean, what do you see – do you see Brian Boitano, Olympic champion, do you see him like getting a Nike endorsement? And stuff on TV, a shaver’s commercial? You know, you don’t see any of that for male skaters. It’s usually the women, you know. So I just knew that wasn’t a thing that was on my head about – oh, my God, I’m out, so I’m losing endorsements that way, you know. A lot of male skaters that win the Olympics don’t get endorsements. It’s just not a – figure skating male is just not a – endorsement material.

Dave: So, do you think it’s bogus that so many men don’t come out and use that as an excuse not to come out, that it’s going to hurt their endorsements? Do you think they need a reality check, that they’re not going to get these endorsements anyway?

Rudy: No, I don’t know who’s the cause in it, you know. I just don’t, you know – I just came out because maybe I could open up doors and you know and stuff. I don’t really know anyone’s sexual preference in skating, and anymore, you know, I just – I’m just so out of the loop in that thing because we don’t tour anymore and stuff. So, you know, if they want to come out, they come out. If they do, then that’s fine, you know.

Jenny: Mhm. Yeah, it’s up to each individual person.

Rudy: Yeah, it is.

Jenny: Yeah. And one of the things that I found interesting during my research Rudy, was that in June 1997, your New York Times article, you said at the time that no officials from US Figure Skating had telephoned or sent a congratulatory note after your ’96 season, which I thought was kind of odd. And you also said at the time, when skating judges greet you backstage on tour, some of those who formally hugged you now offered distant handshakes. So why did you think there was this change?

Rudy: Maybe some of the articles that say after I won and, you know, putting the judges out there saying that over the years they never supported me. They were – they wanted the all-American, you know. They were, and I said that like, some of them were homophobic. And you know, they wanted an all-American champion. And some of them I think, you know, saw the articles and you know, I think that’s when they came down to it. Oh, you know, okay. We’re kind of upset at you, here’s the handshake. You know what I mean?

Jenny: Right, it was kind of like reprimanding you.

Rudy: Yeah, like reprimanding me. Like, you know, whatever, you have nothing to do with, you know, our world anymore. You’re professional now, you know, here’s whatever. Bye. You know? So that’s it, you know. Oh, well. No big deal.

Dave: Now, you were very successful as a professional competitor. And you were very consistent. Yet every year you went to the world pro which – the world pro is, I guess, people don’t understand now, but it was really a very prestigious competition, and a lot of the very famous coaches would be the judges. And it seemed like every year, something always happened with you at the world pro where maybe you didn’t get the marks you deserved or the crowd booed you. Did it almost feel like you were going back to being an amateur again?

Rudy: Oooh. They didn’t boo me – they booed the judges.

Dave: Right, they booed the judges. I didn’t mean to say that!

Rudy: No, it was just crazy because I remember – I don’t wanna name names because – I remember at a world pro, and I skated really well. And there was, we’ll say, a Bible belt judge.

Dave: A very famous Bible belt judge.

Rudy: You probably know who I’m talking about, right?

Dave: Yes. A beloved skater, yes.

Rudy: Yes, and I remember my marks were like, and I just did Fosse, and I did a triple axel and did a clean program. And I think I was second after the technical. And I had like 9.9, 9.9, 9.8, 9.9, 9.9, and then a 9.6, and then like a 9.4. By her. Oops!

Jenny: I think we all know whom you’re talking about, anyway, it’s okay, Rudy!

Rudy: And I just remember – I was just so mad, and I remember that a couple of the people that were right there by the Kiss ‘n Cry, and they said, and they said something about her, and they said, “do we know why she did that?” And you know, and she’s like a born-again Christian and all this stuff, and she had just had a problem with me. And I remember at my sister approaching her and asking why – it was so blatant, you know what I mean? Because everyone booed her marks big-time. And Laura said, she said that I stood on two feet for Fosse too much. And we were like – oh, okay, yeah, right.

Dave: So, you being noted as the outrageous gay skater were, in many ways, ten years later, almost supplanted by . And you’ve had kind of a up and down relationship at least in the press discussing Johnny Weir where it didn’t seem like you two always got along. What do you think of Johnny now?

Rudy: Divas – we’re fine now, we’re fine now. You know, we have our ups and downs, and we tour together, and you know, we pull away. And then he’d go with – the following year, he’d like have a different set of friends, and it was like – okay, and you know it was just like, pulling away. And I don’t know if there was a little competition there in performance-wise, and this and that, and then I took out an article and stuff and saying, like I said before, I – hopefully, I open up doors for people to feel comfortable . You know, and they’ll mention – oh, Johnny Weir is he out? And I said – you know, ask him. Maybe he’s just isn’t comfortable with my situation just to come out of the closet. I just remember my manager like, “how dare you do an article like that?” And I was just like, “what? I was just telling the truth, you know.” And I remember going on, and I guess some of the people on Champions on Ice were upset with me that I took out an article about Johnny Weir saying that he should just come out of the closet and this and that. And I’m like, you know – oh, my goodness, wow, you know. I got so reprimanded for that. And it was like – and then, now it’s like they’re celebrating his marriage to a guy. You know?

Jenny: Yeah, it’s a little bit…

Rudy: Yeah, I’m like, wait a minute, I said, and I saw I think IceNetwork, you know the highlights of the year and stuff, and they had Johnny Weir in his whatever, his marriage to a guy. And I’m like – wow, and you guys reprimanded me for saying hopefully he can come out of the closet? You know?

Dave: How bizarre was it for you watching the dance that he played with the press? Because there has never really been anything like it where Johnny was in heels. And something where you were really criticized for being flamboyant. And yet you actually said you were gay. And Johnny maybe implied it or everyone assumed. Was that weird for you, where he almost – it was watching that?

Rudy: I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s just funny because, you know, Johnny and I – we’re fine now, we saw each other at nationals in San Jose and stuff, and we kind of laughed or whatever. He’s like, “hi!” And I’m going, “hi.” Everything was fine. But it’s so funny because, like, I could be flamboyant in my skating. I was out, and so I got a bit – it’s almost like they, Johnny could show up in high heels, fur coats, red carpets, getting married to another guy. And they still don’t talk about him being gay. I’m like [laughing] – you know, it’s like, it’s like – um, okay, fine. I won’t say anything, you know? He’s just married a guy, you know, he has like the shirt, it’s like “my boyfriend’s gay.” And you know?

Jenny: But he’s not, yeah. Well, Rudy, as we start to wrap things up, next week you’re going to be inducted at nationals in the figure skating Hall of Fame. And you’ve been nominated a couple years. You actually joked that you were like the Susan Lucci of the event which I thought was so funny. But how does it feel to finally receive this honor?

Rudy: Oh, it’s so exciting. It’s just like – it’s the icing on the cake. It’s like – I remember I did a couple days ago, they honored me for the Skating Club of . And I stood on the ice, and I, you know, I talked to some of the skaters. And they’re like, “congratulations!” And there are so many good skaters out there, and a lot of them can win nationals and yet they may or may not ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame. And it’s just like – wow, I say that I am in the skating, US Figure Skating Hall of Fame. Like, this is like – this is in deep. This is cemented in history. You know, and it’s just like – it’s like my Olympic gold medal. It’s like – oh, my God, this is like the ultimate achievement. And I’m so honored, and I’m so thrilled. I’m so excited.

Jenny: Something that can never be taken away from you. So, one of the things when Dave and I were looking over your life, I really think of you as a success story, Rudy. You’re somebody who’s faced adversity and you’ve overcome it. And I’m sure that at the end of the ’95 season, it must have been just emotionally and just mentally really tough for you to kind of resolve yourself to what had happened in the last couple years. And I was wondering – do you have any advice for skaters? Because I’m sure there’s some skaters who feel exactly like you did at the end of that season but maybe they hear that whisper, which I’m sure you heard, which was, you know, just come back. Just try one more time, no pressure. What did you learn from you comeback, and what advice would you have for skaters who feel like you did at the end of that season?

Rudy: Well, I learned to persevere, of course, you know. Never give up on your dream of finally of having, you know, a good skate at nationals. And the advice I give to other skaters is that, you know, if it’s something you want, you just gotta – and it’s something that you love, you stick with it. And you know, it’s just still year after year after years of not working, then that’s when you have to sit down and an ultimatum of, you know, what I want to do – go into ice shows, and stuff. But as long, you know, you’ve won the gold medal just by putting a hundred percent into it, and persevering in the sport, you know. But it’s – that’s the lesson I give to the skaters that, you know, you follow your heart, and your loved ones and get the advice of others, and just follow your heart.

Dave: You talk about following your heart. But you also said that nationals in San Jose were like your Olympics. And not everyone gets to win their Olympics. But you did. So how did that change your life, and how did it change Rudy Galindo?

Rudy: Well, it changed me – like my build of fifteen-minute stardom fame, and just helping, you know, being a role model in the gay community and in the Mexican-American community around here. It was just – it was nice to be a role model and speak out about that. And now having the national title, you know, I got to – by winning that title, I could actually go and find out that I was HIV positive – I could go and do speak in engagements about my disease, and help people. And I’ve gotten thousands of letters, and saying how I’ve helped them be themselves, coming out to their friends, coworkers, families, and learning to live with being HIV positive. You know, it’s not a death sentence, and I think that winning that national and you know, my Olympic gold medal, I had the chance to voice myself on all those issues and help so many people. And that’s just all the gold medals put into one.

Dave: Being inducted into the Hall of Fame, there’s such a cast of characters in the rich history of US Figure Skating that are in that Hall of Fame. How would you like to be remembered? How would you like your display to be in the Hall of Fame?

Rudy: That’s a good one. I mean, what can you say, you know? He was the – he was not the all-American, the openly gay trailer trash?

Jenny: Mexican, don’t forget the Mexican.

Dave: Oh, yeah, don’t forget the Mexican!

Rudy: Yeah, I’m proud of all that, you know, and I just want to be known for achieving success in pairs and singles, and being a spokesperson for the Mexican-Americans, and HIV and AIDS.

Jenny: Well, I think that’s so commendable, Rudy. And the last thing – we always end our interviews where we tell our skaters or interviewees somebody’s name, and we want to hear the first thing that comes to your mind, and for you, Rudy, we have two pages of names because we kept thinking of fun people that made us think of you. So we pared it down to the best of the best, and we’re going to start. Ready?

Rudy: Yes.

Jenny: Okay. The first is Tom Collins.

Rudy: Amazing.

Dave: .

Rudy: Wild.

Jenny: Suzanne Bonaly.

Rudy: Suzanne – oh! Crazy!

Jenny: I knew you would like that one! Rudy: Oh, lordy!

Dave: .

Rudy: Scary, scary, scary. Yeah, can I change that one? Scary.

Jenny: Okay, yes – scary!

Dave: How about Surya?

Rudy: Fun.

Jenny: Pasha.

Rudy: Diva!

Dave: Philippe Candeloro.

Rudy: Sex machine.

Jenny: Yes. .

Rudy: Canadian, eh?

Jenny: Eh? He’s very Canadian.

Rudy: I know. Elvis, leather pants.

Jenny: Ooh!

Dave: Dick Button

Rudy: [lots of laughter]

Jenny: What are you thinking, Rudy?

Rudy: I don’t know! You guys have got me sweaty now!

Jenny: This is the part of this that you’re nervous of the whole interview!

Rudy: I’m totally sweating and like pitting out and like – I’m gonna pass out with you two eventually!

Jenny: Yeah, like dried out…

Rudy: It all started out with when you said Suzanne Bonaly. I just sweat – I got all scared, I’m like looking around the house.

Jenny: Do you remember, Rudy, on tour, I remember she would sit in the locker room, and I always remember, she always like have a dictionary. And that’s what she would do when we would skate, she would just highlight words. And I’d be like walking down the ice to do my program, and she’d be asking me what these huge words meant!

Rudy: Yeah, oh, my God, and try to teach you on the ice? Jenny: Yeah, I was like – I’m about to go skate!

Rudy: And she would – I think she would bring her own rice cooker out of her skating bag and start making – did she make food in the women’s dressing room?

Jenny: Yes, it was always just in the collective thing that was going on?

Rudy: Yeah, I think she had a rice cooker, a live chicken that she pulled out… you know what, he’s a good guy. I’m going to say Dick Button’s a good guy. It’s all I can think of…

Jenny: He is. First-rate, he’s first-rate.

Rudy: I think I’m dripping wet because of this ____. I just…

Jenny: I love it, okay!

Rudy: She scared me because I was like practicing, and she was trying to teach me. And I’m like – nooo!

Jenny: Well, if you want to be like nice, but yeah. There’s just nothing… so what about ?

Rudy: A lovely.

Jenny: She is lovely.

Dave: .

Rudy: Feisty.

Jenny: Feisty. Ooh, Brian Boitano.

Rudy: Brian Boitano – I see, oohhhh. Wisdom.

Jenny: He does seem very wise.

Dave: All right, and our final one – .

Rudy: Did I use crazy already? Put ‘em all together – like, fun-loving crazy.

Jenny: I think the good kind of crazy!

Rudy: Yeah. I love her. You know, it’s a good kind of crazy.

Jenny: It’s always the best kind. Well, thank you so much, Rudy for spending so much time with us.

[Rudy leaves]

Dave: We’d obviously like to thank Rudy Galindo for all of his time and insight today. I think he really has, you know, such a great message. I’m really taken aback by the fact that Rudy, Carole, and Kristi are all back together – perhaps in a different form, but I think it’s absolutely wonderful that he’s coaching Kristi’s daughter and that you really see that this is a true friendship in a group of people who really have a love and care about one another. And I think they went through hard times, I think we’ve all gone through with friends and long- term people in our lives, and I think it’s absolutely wonderful that they’re back together, supporting one another in this new chapter. Jenny: I agree, Dave. I think that their relationship is one that so many of us can relate to, whether it’s a friendship or a long-term relationship. You have those years where maybe things are a bit rocky, a bit dicey, but you always hope to come together in the end. And it seems like they’ve done that. I just also wanna say that Rudy is somebody who has made so many people in the sport just happy. He brings you joy whether it’s through an interview or through a performance on the ice. And there’s no better person in my mind to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, the Figure Skating Hall of Fame, than Rudy Galindo. And I just – I want to congratulate him again for that honor. And I would also like to thank Kevin Quasnaski [again, spelling on that?] for our amazing graphics, and I would like to thank all of you guys for tuning with us and hanging with us this week while we’ve been battling our boot problems. Our audio and video problems, with all these technical issues that we will get resolved in future podcasts. So thank you, guys.

Dave: Yes. And as always, we’d like to remind you to hold an edge…

Together: And look sexy! Bye, guys!