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House of Lords Official Report Vol. 801 Wednesday No. 17 29 January 2020 PARLIAMENTARYDEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDEROFBUSINESS Questions Constitution, Democracy and Rights Commission ......................................................1437 Sudan and South Sudan...............................................................................................1439 Bovine Tuberculosis......................................................................................................1442 Rohingya Muslims........................................................................................................1444 Fisheries Bill [HL] Buses (Zero Emissions) Bill [HL] Local Authorities (Transport Powers) Bill [HL] Police Conduct (Operation Conifer) Inquiry Bill [HL] Hereditary Peerages and Baronetcies (Equality of Inheritance) Bill [HL] First Readings ...............................................................................................................1447 Data Protection (Independent Complaint) Bill [HL] First Reading.................................................................................................................1448 Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Bill Second Reading (and remaining stages)........................................................................1448 Social Mobility Question for Short Debate ............................................................................................1478 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2020-01-29 The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour Lab Co-op Labour and Co-operative Party LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2020, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1437 Oaths and Affirmations[29 JANUARY 2020] Constitution, Democracy and Rights 1438 House of Lords this subject. It is still too early for me to provide him with any details about either the composition or the Wednesday 29 January 2020 remit of the commission. However, I assure him that the points he makes will be registered. 3 pm Lord Howell of Guildford (Con): My Lords, my Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Gloucester. noble friend the Minister rightly wishes he could be more specific. Does he accept, and will he convey to Oaths and Affirmations his colleagues, that there really is a need to be more specific, and give us some hints about what the focus 3.05 pm of this commission will be? Does he not accept that the present three words are very vague, and the canvass Lord Woolmer of Leeds made the solemn affirmation, enormous? There are 16 different definitions or more and signed an undertaking to abide by the Code of of what democracy means. If noble Lords are to make Conduct. a sensible contribution to this commission, as we would wish, we must very soon have a better indication of what specific issues in this enormous range the Constitution, Democracy and commission will concentrate on. Rights Commission Question Earl Howe: My noble friend makes a very good point. Constitutional reform is a term that could 3.06 pm encompass many subject areas. One reason why the Asked by Lord Lisvane Government are taking a bit of time over deciding the commission’s remit is that, if the remit is too wide, the To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they task becomes too unwieldy and lengthy; too narrow, expect the Constitution, Democracy and Rights and it risks creating policy that is not properly joined Commission to be established. up. The scope needs to be substantial but sensible. Earl Howe (Con): My Lords, the Conservative Lord Tyler (LD): My Lords, following the point manifesto committed to reviewing the relationship that the Minister has just made, do the Government between the Government, Parliament and the courts accept that there are some priority steps required to, in a constitution, democracy and rights commission. and I quote from the Conservative manifesto, We will set up the commission within this Government’s first year. Further announcements will be made in due “protect the integrity of our democracy” course. that are probably so urgent that they cannot wait for the proposed commission? Has the Minister seen, and Lord Lisvane (CB): My Lords, I know that I speak does he note, the recommendations of the APPG for the whole House in wishing the noble Earl many report, Defending our Democracy in the Digital Age, happy returns for his birthday. On a similarly positive which follows the work of Select Committees in both note, I hope that he will be able to give us assurances Houses, and the recommendations of the Information about the authority and independence of the commission, Commissioner and the Electoral Commission? Do the to be demonstrated by its membership, and, above all, Government recognise that there is a dangerous an assurance that the commission will not have its connection between digital campaigning and potentially card marked by the Government. illegal funding—the huge sums of money from foreign sources, from Miami to Moscow, seeking to influence Earl Howe: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble both elections and referendums? Lord for his kind greetings. I recognise absolutely the concern that lies behind his Question. The one thing Earl Howe: I fully recognise the concern expressed we want to achieve from this exercise is a set of by the noble Lord. Indeed, we have debated these recommendations that command public confidence. matters in the past, albeit cursorily. These are matters That means a wide range of engagement by the that the Government are determined to grip. Whether commission when it is formed and a feeling on the the commission will be doing that is something that part of the public and, indeed, civil society as a whole, unfortunately I cannot be specific on at the moment. that they are engaged with, and sympathetic to, the outcome. Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab): My Lords, the Minister will have seen the report today that shows a Lord Morgan (Lab): My Lords, the terms of reference dramatic increase in dissatisfaction with democracy. of this commission have not been specified. Will this That is startling but hardly surprising, given the toxic rather shadowy, generalised body turn its attention to nature of debate that we have seen over the last few upholding the rights of Parliament and the judiciary years, so the new commission will have to look at and to protecting the rule of law? ways to restore trust. The Government’s briefings have already provoked some interest, whether about political Earl Howe: My Lords, I wish that I could be more appointments to challenge the independence of the specific about the remit. I completely understand the judiciary or about shallow comments about moving this noble Lord’s wish for further and better particulars on House to York. While I understand that some No. 10 1439 Constitution, Democracy and Rights[LORDS] Sudan and South Sudan 1440 [BARONESS SMITH OF BASILDON] The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth spokesmen delight in being populist, does the Minister Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con): My Lords, consider that the path to restoring confidence is structural the United Kingdom has taken a leading role in both change of democratic institutions or will he accept Sudan and South Sudan. Through our extensive political that it is more fundamentally about behaviour and engagement, we are working with the region and about offering hope for the future? What will really international partners to help ensure a peaceful and make a difference is genuinely understanding and tackling credible transition to democracy in Sudan and the the serious issues that impact on society,from homelessness implementation of the peace process in South Sudan. to climate emergency, if we are serious about restoring We are the second largest bilateral humanitarian donor trust in the whole political system. in both Sudan and South Sudan, supporting those who have suffered years of the countries’ conflict and Earl Howe: The noble Baroness makes some extremely civil wars. good points. Constitutional structures matter, but I suggest that what matters equally is for British and The Earl of Sandwich (CB): My Lords, I am relieved Northern Irish citizens to have a sense of belonging to to hear that Answer,
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