Fourth Session, 40th Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(HANSARD)

Wednesday, October 28, 2015 Afternoon Sitting Volume 30, Number 5

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC

Fourth Session, 40th Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

Premier and President of the Executive Council...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing...... Hon. Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture...... Hon. Minister of Children and Family Development...... Hon. Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development and Minister Responsible for TransLink...... Hon. Minister of Education...... Hon. Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review...... Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment...... Hon. Minister of Finance...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Steve Thomson Minister of Health...... Hon. Dr. Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacific Strategy and Multiculturalism...... Hon. Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour...... Hon. Minister of Justice...... Hon. Minister of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction and Minister Responsible for the Liquor Distribution Branch...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation...... Hon. Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Minister of State for Emergency Preparedness...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Leader of the Official Opposition...... Deputy Speaker...... Richard T. Lee Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole...... Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk...... Roderick MacArthur, QC Sergeant-at-Arms...... Gary Lenz ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING

Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal)...... -Fraserview Abbotsford-Mission...... Simon Gibson Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal)...... Penticton ...... Dr. Darryl Plecas Austin, Robin (NDP)...... Skeena ...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Bains, Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Alberni–Pacific Rim...... Scott Fraser Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal)...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Boundary-Similkameen...... Linda Larson Bennett, Hon. Bill (BC Liberal)...... Kootenay East Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Kathy Corrigan Bernier, Hon. Mike (BC Liberal)...... Burnaby-Edmonds...... Raj Chouhan Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby-Lougheed...... Jane Jae Kyung Shin Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Valemount ...... Richard T. Lee Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Cloverdale Cariboo-Chilcotin...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP)...... Vancouver–West End ...... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chouhan, Raj (NDP)...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack...... John Martin Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal)...... Westside-Kelowna Chilliwack-Hope...... Laurie Throness Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal)...... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Columbia River–Revelstoke...... Norm Macdonald Conroy, Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Comox Valley...... Don McRae Corrigan, Kathy (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Vacant Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Selina Robinson Darcy, Judy (NDP)...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley...... Bill Routley de Jong, Hon. Michael, QC (BC Liberal)...... Abbotsford West ...... Wm. Scott Hamilton Dix, Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway ...... Vicki Huntington Donaldson, Doug (NDP)...... Stikine –Royal Roads...... Maurine Karagianis Eby, David (NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Fort Langley–Aldergrove...... Hon. Rich Coleman Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Farnworth, Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Juan de Fuca...... John Horgan Fassbender, Hon. Peter (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Kamloops–North Thompson...... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Fleming, Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kamloops–South Thompson...... Hon. Todd Stone Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)...... Vernon-Monashee Kelowna–Lake Country...... Hon. Norm Letnick Fraser, Scott (NDP)...... Alberni–Pacific Rim Kelowna-Mission...... Hon. Steve Thomson Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal)...... Abbotsford-Mission Kootenay East...... Hon. Bill Bennett Hamilton, Wm. Scott (BC Liberal)...... Delta North Kootenay West...... Hammell, Sue (NDP)...... Surrey–Green Timbers Langley...... Hon. Mary Polak Heyman, George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Mission...... Marc Dalton Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal)...... Surrey–White Rock Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Dr. Doug Bing Holman, Gary (NDP)...... Saanich North and the Islands Nanaimo...... Leonard Eugene Krog Horgan, John (NDP)...... Juan de Fuca Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Doug Routley Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Panorama Nechako Lakes...... Hon. John Rustad Huntington, Vicki (Ind.)...... Delta South Nelson-Creston...... Michelle Mungall James, Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill New Westminster...... Judy Darcy Karagianis, Maurine (NDP)...... Esquimalt–Royal Roads North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP)...... Nanaimo North Island...... Claire Trevena Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)...... Shuswap North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Hon. Naomi Yamamoto Lake, Hon. Dr. Terry (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–North Thompson North Vancouver–Seymour...... Jane Thornthwaite Larson, Linda (BC Liberal)...... Boundary-Similkameen Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal)...... Burnaby North Parksville-Qualicum...... Hon. Michelle Stilwell Letnick, Hon. Norm (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Peace River North...... Pat Pimm Macdonald, Norm (NDP)...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Peace River South...... Hon. Mike Bernier McRae, Don (BC Liberal)...... Comox Valley Penticton...... Dan Ashton Martin, John (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack Port Coquitlam...... Morris, Mike (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Mackenzie Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Linda Reimer Mungall, Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Nicholas Simons Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal)...... Cariboo North Prince George–Mackenzie...... Pimm, Pat (BC Liberal)...... Peace River North Prince George–Valemount...... Hon. Shirley Bond Plecas, Dr. Darryl (BC Liberal)...... Abbotsford South Richmond Centre...... Hon. Teresa Wat Polak, Hon. Mary (BC Liberal)...... Langley ...... Hon. Linda Reid Popham, Lana (NDP)...... Richmond-Steveston...... Ralston, Bruce (NDP)...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich North and the Islands...... Gary Holman Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal)...... Richmond East Saanich South...... Lana Popham Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal)...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Shuswap...... Greg Kyllo Rice, Jennifer (NDP)...... North Coast Skeena...... Robin Austin Robinson, Selina (NDP)...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Stikine...... Doug Donaldson Routley, Bill (NDP)...... Cowichan Valley Surrey-Cloverdale...... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Routley, Doug (NDP)...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Fleetwood...... Hon. Peter Fassbender Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal)...... Nechako Lakes Surrey–Green Timbers...... Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Surrey-Newton...... Harry Bains Simons, Nicholas (NDP)...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey-Panorama...... Marvin Hunt Simpson, Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Tynehead...... Hon. Amrik Virk Stilwell, Hon. Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Surrey-Whalley...... Bruce Ralston Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Langara Surrey–White Rock...... Gordon Hogg Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–South Thompson Vancouver-Fairview...... George Heyman Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver–False Creek...... Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Fraserview...... Hon. Suzanne Anton Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Hastings...... Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal)...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver-Kensington...... Mable Elmore Thomson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver-Kingsway...... Adrian Dix Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal)...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver-Langara...... Dr. Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack-Hope Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Vacant Trevena, Claire (NDP)...... North Island Vancouver–Point Grey...... David Eby Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal)...... Surrey-Tynehead Vancouver-Quilchena...... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal)...... Richmond Centre Vancouver–West End...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.)...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Vernon-Monashee...... Eric Foster Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Quilchena Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Carole James Yamamoto, Hon. Naomi (BC Liberal)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Victoria–Swan Lake...... Rob Fleming Yap, John (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Capilano...... Vacant...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain West Vancouver–Sea to Sky...... Vacant...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Westside-Kelowna...... Hon. Christy Clark

Party Standings: BC Liberal 48; New Democratic 33; Independent 2; Vacant 2

CONTENTS

Wednesday, October 28, 2015 Afternoon Sitting

Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members...... 9837

Tributes...... 9839 Brad and Florian Chapman G. Kyllo

Introductions by Members...... 9839

Ministerial Statements...... 9840 Boat accident in Tofino and community role in ocean safety Hon. C. Clark S. Fraser

Statements (Standing Order 25B)...... 9841 BCHL hockey showcase in Chilliwack J. Martin Tahltan Nation Development Corporation D. Donaldson Business start-ups in Penticton D. Ashton Home care S. Chandra Herbert Desert Hills Ranch J. Tegart Food culture and Camosun College culinary arts program L. Popham

Oral Questions...... 9843 Government record-keeping and freedom of information J. Horgan Hon. C. Clark K. Conroy Highway 16 issues and government record-keeping S. Fraser Hon. T. Stone Government record-keeping and freedom of information M. Farnworth Hon. C. Clark MRI waiting times in Fraser Health Authority J. Darcy Hon. T. Lake Funding for school facilities S. Robinson Hon. M. Bernier Orders of the Day

Government Motions on Notice...... 9848 Motion 26 — Electoral Boundaries Commission report proposals (continued) M. Mungall S. Hamilton V. Huntington D. Routley G. Heyman G. Kyllo J. Darcy J. Horgan

Introduction and First Reading of Bills...... 9873 Bill 42 — Electoral Districts Act Hon. S. Anton

Second Reading of Bills...... 9873 Bill 41 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 3), 2015 Hon. S. Anton D. Donaldson N. Macdonald Hon. B. Bennett 9837

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2015 constituency. One is Jane Parkinson, who is the mother of Elizabeth Parkinson, a legislative assistant of ours in the The House met at 1:32 p.m. NDP caucus. She’s joined by her friend Kay Prosser. They are here enjoying their retirement, learning new things [Madame Speaker in the chair.] about democracy and what the Legislative Assembly does on any given day, as well as other pursuits. Routine Business On a sadder note, I want to also acknowledge that Jane lost her husband, Kevin, just recently and is, sadly, enjoy- Prayers. ing her retirement without her life partner. I know that the House will certainly pass on our condolences to her, Introductions by Members as I have already, and wish her the very, very best in the days and weeks and months ahead. Hon. P. Fassbender: Today I have the real pleasure to introduce some 30-plus participants of the Democracy J. Thornthwaite: Madame Speaker, I’d like to recog- in Action Conference joining us for question period. The nize a very special birthday of somebody that many of Democracy in Action Conference is a program that was you here in the House will know and remember — my es- launched last year by Minister Oakes, the former Minister teemed predecessor Mr. Daniel Jarvis, who was the MLA of Community, Sport and Cultural Development. The 33 at the same time that you were, since 1991, for North youths, aged 16 to 18, from across the province come to Vancouver–Seymour. Would the House please wish Victoria for this three-day learning program. Daniel a happy 80th birthday for November 1. Happy Yesterday, the Lieutenant-Governor, Judith Guichon, birthday, Daniel. and I had the opportunity to welcome the students to the province’s capital at a welcome luncheon. The prov- M. Farnworth: It’s not often that I get visitors from ince is well represented with students from every corner Port Coquitlam here to the buildings, but today I’d like of this province, including students from as far north as to take the opportunity to introduce a very special guest. Lax Kw’alaams First Nations, as far south as Osoyoos, as She’s active in our community. She works at the Prostate east as Creston and as west as . Centre as a researcher. She has been touring the building. It should be mentioned that this conference would She got to see the library, including — I think, for a re- not be possible without the partnership and generous searcher — an 1877 edition of Scientific American. Would support of B.C. Rotary Clubsco across the province. the House please welcome Dr. Amy Lubik to Victoria and Democracy in Action is designed to help participants wish her a really great day here in the Legislature. better understand British Columbia’s democratic pro- cesses and institutions as well as the privileges and re- Hon. A. Virk: It’s my pleasure to make two intro- sponsibilities of citizenship. ductions today. In the precinct is my constituent Steven [1335] Purewal of the Indus Media Foundation. Members of the I know that tonight members from both sides of the House will recall displays in the halls of the Legislative House will have an opportunity to attend a dinner where Assembly celebrating World War I and the contribution they can engage and get to know these students better. I of South Asians in that. would ask every member of the House to make them feel My second introduction. In the House today is a very welcome. group of young leaders, a young group of individuals in uniform, the 3300 British Columbia Regiment of the J. Horgan: I have two introductions to make today of Royal Canadian Army Cadet Corps based in Surrey, also constituents of mine, but I want to follow on the minis- known as the Bhai Kanhaiya Cadet Corps. ter’s comments because I had my own question period These 40 cadets participated in a ceremony earlier to- just the other day. I had, from Edward Milne Community day to remember the sacrifice by members of the South School, Matthew Miller, who is here for the presentation Asian battalions who fought bravely shoulder to shoulder of Democracy in Action Youth Conference. Matthew with Canadian troops in World War I. They are being led came to my office and grilled me for a good 45 minutes today by Major Taylor and Captain Nagra. Apparently, I on what my roles and responsibilities were, not just as a gave him a field promotion today. I don’t know if that member of the Legislature but as Leader of the Official stands or not. His commanding officer will know that. Opposition. I had — for a brief moment, in any event — Would the House please make them feel welcome. a little bit of a sense of what the Premier goes through when we’re asking her questions. S. Simpson: I have a group of people here to intro- I want the House to make Matthew Miller from duce that I’m very, very pleased to be able to bring to the Edward Milne Community School very, very, welcome. attention of the Legislature. Joining us today is Eileen My second introduction. I have two friends from my Greene, a leader from the School of 9838 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

Nursing. She’s joined here by 18 of her fourth-year nurs- Crown in the First World War. ing students, who in six months’ time will be joining the They never gave up on Canada, and I’ve said this before. profession, after they complete their time here. I think they continue to turn Canada into a better place [1340] and British Columbia into a place that we all proudly say They include Carlee Anderson, Taylor Arkles, Sharon today is the best place to raise our children and work. Blackmore, Nichele Boas, Brianne Campbell, Rabina Along with them was a good community worker, Dr. Dodd, Christine Doyle, Hicham El-Boualaye, Rebecca Amer Shergill, and his wife, Furminder Shergill. They Feddema, Kim Ferguson, Gurinder Hari, Bryce Kniert, were here. And also Raj Periwal from the gurdwara from Carlee Lawless, Ashley McNaughton, Holly Prince, Victoria. Amber Smith, Brianna Willett and Julia Wilson. I apolo- Thank you to Steven Periwal for doing such a great job gize for any pronunciation problems. and reminding us where we came from and where we are I particularly, though…. Eileen is a special person, not today so we never forget the history going forward, so just for the leadership she provides at the school of nurs- that people coming after us can also relate to us — that ing, but for the work she has done internationally. She we also play a little role in their lives, that their lives are is the founder of the Home of Good Hope in Namibia even better than what we have today. eight years ago. This is a facility that provides basic health Please help me to send them a very warm welcome to care support and that feeds 500 people a day in Namibia. this beautiful House. Eileen was recognized this July with an international award for human rights for her work in Namibia and Hon. M. Polak: The Democracy in Action conference the work she’s done there and the work that she’s done in Victoria has already been referenced. Four of those here. I’m also pleased to introduce her because she is the students are from Langley, two of whom I have had the mother of my sister-in-law here in Victoria. opportunity to meet with in my constituency office. I I hope everybody will welcome Ms. Greene and these will tell you that these are absolutely amazing young nursing students to the House. people. From Langley we have William Karpan, Roxanne Kondos, Caiden Sue and Erin Maloney. L. Larson: Hon. Speaker, it is my pleasure to welcome Would the House make them welcome. to British Columbia and to our House a visiting delega- [1345] tion from the Senate Standing Committee on Health and the Senate Standing Committee on Implementation of J. Darcy: I’d like to join with the Chair of the Select the Parliament of Kenya. Standing Committee on Health in welcoming our Kenyan The committee is interested in learning about best delegation today, who met with us at noon. I know that practices, health financing and planning for serious they are here, they say, to learn about best practices in health epidemics. The members of the committee joining health care, but I think that it was very, very clear to our us in the gallery this afternoon are Senator Lesan, Senator committee — to the members from both sides of the Ali and Senator Kanainza. House on our committee…. Accompanying the members are the following offi- We had sort of a bipartisan, common reaction to what cials and staff: Mr. George, Honorary Consul, Consulate we learned about their Implementation Committee. They of The Republic of Kenya; Mr. McMillan, assistant to the have an Implementation Committee that is struck in their Honorary Consul; Ms. Madjibodou, committee secretar- Senate — an elected Senate, by the way, that includes rep- iat; and Ms. Mudibo, committee secretariat. resentation from youth. There’s a 26-year-old woman in The delegation met with the Select Standing Committee the galleries today who is a senator in Kenya. on Health at lunch and will meet later today with staff Their Implementation Committee takes the motions from the Ministry of Health. from parliament, reviews them every three months to see Would the House please make our guests welcome. whether or not they’re implemented, and, indeed, they report back to parliament with very, very clear direc- H. Bains: It is a pleasure, and actually it was a very tions about what needs to be done, if it hasn’t been done. honouring moment, for me to be present at a ceremony I think we were all inspired by that. So while they’ve come where over 40 cadets made up of South Asian young men here to learn from us, we certainly have an awful lot to and women of the 3300 B.C. Regiment…. learn from them as well. The ceremony. What was so moving is the glimpse Thank you so much, and welcome. of history that Steven Periwal gave us and reminded us of our history — what we went through as British Hon. T. Stone: I’m sure I speak for all members of Columbians — when South Asians first came to Canada the House when I say it’s always a special treat when our in 1897, and then 1914, when, although the Komagata family is here with us. I have been thrilled to have my Maru was denied entry and those passengers were not mother in town all week. I’ve been trying to mind my p’s allowed to land, some of them went on to fight for the and q’s. She’s here in the gallery today. Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9839

Her dad, who is my grandfather, is a large part of the C. Trevena: I, too, would like to recognize a student reason — a large part of the credit — for my love of pol- who is here for the Democracy in Action conference. itics and my desire to get involved in public life. He was Joanna Morrison from Campbell River is a student at a lifelong CCF-NDP’er till the day he passed away. He Carihi — very engaged in community and in issues and used to always say that my political attachments must is hoping, once she graduates high school, to study inter- have been because I was dropped on my head at child- national relations. birth. At lunch today, I was able to once again get a firm I hope that people will make her very welcome here assessment of that day from my mother, who confirms, and for her very active future. yet again, that that was not the case. Please join me in welcoming my mother to the cham- Tributes ber today. BRAD AND FLORIAN CHAPMAN J. Rice: From Democracy in Action today I have a guest visiting from Lax Kw’alaams, known to some here, G. Kyllo: It’s with a heavy heart that I pay tribute to perhaps, as Port Simpson. Cayden White is a 16-year-old two fine gentlemen from the North Okanagan who lost grade 11 student. He’s an exceptional student and com- their lives recently in a plane crash in northeastern B.C. munity leader in Lax Kw’alaams. He’s a student mentor, Brad Chapman was a Vernon-based businessman and tutor, athlete and basketball coach. He especially loves community leader in the North Okanagan who, along sports, especially basketball. with his eldest son, Florian, died tragically when his He has received awards for sportsmanship and athleti- small plane crashed near Taylor, B.C. Brad was 56 years cism — highest achievement — and he’s also received the old and Florian only 26. They were the principals in Andy Spence Memorial Award. This award is given out to the Chapman Group of companies that included L.B. a student who has given back and helped the community Chapman Construction and related companies. significantly. He’s an active participant in his culture and Brad was a larger-than-life character who commanded community, participating in traditional food harvesting, the respect of people in every room that he entered. He regalia making, and speaks the Sm’algyax language, which had a passion for flying once he acquired his pilot li- is the language of the Tsimshian people on the north coast. cence in his late 40s. Flying allowed Brad to pursue his Would the House please make Cayden feel welcome. other passions for big-game hunting and fishing, and he would often fly to remote locations in order to pursue Hon. C. Oakes: I have three constituents in the House it. Whether it was for business or pleasure, Brad never today. I have Brittany Grob, Alexandra Hamm and passed up the opportunity to go wheels up. Cameron Sytsma. Brad raised five children with his wife, Michaela, Would the House please help make them welcome. his partner in business and in life. He was also very G. Holman: I have a number of constituents in the community-minded, supporting numerous charities and House today that I’d like to introduce. First is a classroom community-based initiatives in and around the North from Brentwood Elementary of 30 grade 5 students and Okanagan. If money was needed to support a worthy ten parents, led by their teacher Ms. Blackie. cause, Brad Chapman could always be counted on to step Secondly, a councillor from , Niall up and to contribute. Paltiel, who I believe is one of the youngest councillors I considered Brad a friend. He was very supportive of in British Columbia today. me in my desire to become an MLA. Brad and Florian Third, also a student who lives in my constituency, will be profoundly missed by their family and their Daniella Ledet of , who is participating in the friends, the community they lived and worked in and Democracy in Action events here today. by their many business colleagues around the province. Would the House please make them all feel welcome. Introductions by Members L. Reimer: It’s my pleasure today to introduce to you two wonderful students who are here for the S. Robinson: I, too, would like to welcome a student Democracy in Action program and who both inter- to the chamber today. She interviewed me — or, rather, viewed me in my office. Ms. August Sarar is a student grilled me — just as some of my other colleagues were at Port Moody Secondary School, in grade 12, and Mr. this last couple of weeks. Kimberly Venn is here from Dylan Buckmaster is a constituent in Coquitlam–Burke Coquitlam. She’s a first-year business and economics Mountain and comes to us from the Rotary Club of student at SFU. She also had the benefit of receiving a Coquitlam Sunrise and attends Pinetree Secondary. scholarship from the Rotary Club of Coquitlam. I’m very Would the House please make them very welcome. proud to have her here in the House today, and I hope [1350] everyone will help make her feel welcome. 9840 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

J. Sturdy: Today I have the pleasure to introduce to homeland of the member for Surrey-Fleetwood. Please the House Don Evans. Don is president emeritus of the welcome Mr. Beck. West Coast Railway Association, a B.C. non-profit soci- ety whose work is the preservation of British Columbia’s D. Donaldson: I have a member of the constituency, railway heritage. The society has built and operates the from Smithers, participating in the Democracy in Action West Coast Railway Heritage Park in Squamish, British Youth Conference. Her name is Chan Tran. She’s a stu- Columbia, which is western Canada’s largest railway dent at the University of British Columbia, and I think heritage facility, where it hosts some 60,000 visitors annu- that she’s vying for the student who’s come the furthest ally. The heritage park is home to the province of British of any from the north. I would ask the House to please Columbia’s world-famous Royal Hudson locomotive, as welcome her to the Legislature today. well, and the CN Roundhouse and Conference Centre. Don is also the incoming governor of the Rotary Ministerial Statements District 5040 and is here to speak to the youth of Democracy in Action. Will the House please join me in BOAT ACCIDENT IN TOFINO AND making him feel welcome. COMMUNITY ROLE IN OCEAN SAFETY

A. Weaver: I, too, would like to welcome a stu- Hon. C. Clark: Earlier this week — Sunday night, to dent, Silvia Albu, who’s in the gallery tonight with the be exact — the entire province and people around the Democracy in Action students. Silvia is a grade 12 student world were heartbroken to learn of what happened in at Mount Douglas Secondary in my riding. I found out Tofino. Yesterday I was there. during the interview that she was in the grade 4 French My grandfather was born on the shores of Clayoquot immersion class that my son was in at Campus View as island. As a daughter of the coast, a great-granddaugh- well. Would the House please make her feel very welcome. ter of the coast, I know that accidents at sea are a con- stant danger for all of us. It’s something that we’re raised S. Hamilton: Following the same theme, I had a with. It’s something that we just know in our bones. In delightful and enchanting young lady by the name of my life, my father, my grandfather and my great-grand- Kennedy Dawes take the opportunity to come to my of- father were all fishermen. My father and my sister were fice. She’s here representing my constituency of Delta rescued at sea — they would have otherwise perished — North with Democracy in Action. She’s very inspiring, by a neighbour who just happened to see them — a situa- and she took more time to ask me questions about how tion not that dissimilar from the ones that many British she could get involved in community, as opposed to just Columbians can tell you about. simply questions about politics. So I have a lot of faith Yesterday when I was up in Tofino, I had an opportun- that she has a very bright future. Would you please help ity to see and talk to the people who rose to the occasion, me welcome her to the chamber. who, in the midst of a crisis, stepped up in a really, truly incredible way. M. Hunt: Also with Democracy in Action from the We’re still learning about what happened. There are Surrey-Panorama is Harvay Sidhu, who is here to join many more details to come out. The Transportation that as well. I’d like the House to welcome him as well. Safety Board has more work to do. We know that. But in the meantime, we need to do a few things. L. Larson: I would like to welcome the one person The first one is that Minister Yamamoto, our minister from the Boundary-Similkameen riding, Teagen Aspell. responsible for emergency response, is going to make sure that we work with the Ahousaht and other First S. Fraser: I may be in a little bit late, but I’d like us to Nations, who have lived on that coast and have fished that recognize Freya Knapp from Port Alberni. She’s a bright region for millennia, who know it better than anyone else, student who interviewed me and didn’t give any quar- are as prepared as they can possibly be for events like this. ter. She is a very astute student, and she’s going to go far. Today I’m calling on the federal government to en- I’m proud to recognize her today, along with the other sure that First Nations are more formally integrated into students. Coast Guard response for sea rescue and other kinds of [1355] immediate responses required all up and down our coast. They know it better than anybody else, and they should Hon. A. Wilkinson: It’s a great pleasure to introduce be part of that response. to the House today a man in the gallery, Mr. Josef Beck, We need to improve cell service in the region. who is the new consul general for the Federal Republic We also need to recognize those individuals who of Germany, stationed in Vancouver. Two notable things really did something extraordinary. The people on the to remember about Germany. It’s tied for second place as Leviathan, the crew and the passengers, all have stories of the largest exporting economy in the world, and it’s the incredible heroism to tell. They were brave, and they were Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9841

selfless. One woman refused to be rescued, with a broken Hockey League Showcase for the past four years. leg, because there was a pregnant woman she felt need- For four days each year, all 17 BCHL teams come to ed help more than her. The Ahousaht, who responded Chilliwack to compete in a pair of regular season games. immediately. They did not hesitate for a moment to put Teams and players get optimum exposure to scouts from themselves in harm’s way. The Coast Guard, which re- the college and professional ranks. Since the first show- sponded immediately and got there in the absolute fastest case was held, the BCHL has had over a dozen players time that they possibly could. Also, the people of Tofino, selected in the NHL entry draft. The economic spinoffs who have opened their hearts and their homes to support have been recognized in my community. I want to thank the victims and those who are suffering. all those involved in promoting sports tourism and those I am going to nominate Chief Councillor Greg Louie in our local hospitality industry for working alongside and Mayor Josie Osborne to receive some of the first the Chilliwack Chiefs business personnel to host such Medals of Good Citizenship on behalf of their com- an exceptional showcase each and every year for the past munities. four seasons. There is a long road ahead for Tofino and for people I would ask that the House please join me in thanking who live on the coast, but the greatest test of character is Glen Ringdal, Barry Douglas, Andrea Laycock and all how we respond as individuals in the face of crisis. The of the other Prospera Centre staff and community vol- people of Tofino and the people of the Ahousaht First unteers for hosting this incredible event. And especially Nation have passed that test with flying colours. to the Chilliwack Chiefs themselves — who managed to come off with one of only two shutouts during the show- S. Fraser: I would have dearly loved to have had the case, as they downed the Victoria Grizzlies 4-0 — thank opportunity to join the Premier yesterday. I thank her you so much. for her thoughtful words and her timely commitments and acknowledgement and support of the communities TAHLTAN NATION in Clayoquot Sound. DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION [1400] It’s still early days. The loss of life is still palpable, and D. Donaldson: As you head north of Treaty Creek on it’s raw. We now know the identities of those that have the Stewart-Cassiar Highway, you enter a vast, sparsely lost their lives. We know something about their lives, populated, remote area of the province, dominated by their aspirations and hopes, something about their fam- mountains, glaciers, extensive alpine plateaus, pristine ilies. That makes it somehow more difficult. Our deepest waters and a diversity of wildlife and fish populations. condolences from all of us in this House go out. This is Tahltan traditional territory and is home We also know more about those who were involved to an award-winning First Nations business. The in the rescue, those who were involved on the ground — Tahltan Nation Development Corporation received the hardship and the trauma that they have gone through the B.C. Aboriginal Business Award in the category of and that they will continue to go through and relive. Community-Owned Business of the Year at a gala cere- It’s those on the water, those from Ahousaht, who were mony in Vancouver earlier this month. The TNDC was the first on the scene and remained searching for days, recognized for its efforts to ensure community members never giving up. benefit from responsible economic and resource develop- It’s those in Tofino who opened their homes and their ment in their territories. This award is a timely tribute. hearts. The TNDC is celebrating its 30th year. It’s those involved in the industry, the whale-watching Over those three decades, the company has grown to companies, those women and men whose hearts have a multi-million-dollar corporation. With its start in the also been broken by this tragedy. It’s the emergency ser- mining and construction sector, they’ve expanded into vices personnel, the Tofino Coast Guard and hospital energy, communications and transportation. In 2014-15, staff at Tofino General that did so much. the TNDC paid out more than $13.4 million in wages, We thank you all. Please know that all people in B.C. employing 250 workers. Approximately 75 percent were share in your grief, and we thank you. Tahltan, and 90 percent were First Nations. It’s really a staggering achievement when you consider that most of Statements the basic infrastructure needs for business development, (Standing Order 25B) like cell phone service or a well-maintained airport, don’t exist in the area. BCHL HOCKEY SHOWCASE IN CHILLIWACK The Tahltan purposely separate their political arm, the Tahltan Central Council, from their business branch, the J. Martin: This afternoon I would like to recognize TNDC. Sometimes this presents challenges. For instance, Prospera Centre and the Chilliwack Chiefs for their when the provincial government authorized more than efforts in hosting the annual Bauer British Columbia 100 development permits on the traditional territory, 9842 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

it can run counter to the Tahltan values of responsible family able to help and real concerns that there’s no one economic development and the exercising of Tahltan who cares. For too many British Columbians and, espe- title and rights. But the fundamental strategy of Tahltan cially, seniors dealing with illness and disability, this can Central Council setting the governance framework be their reality. They get sicker, their housing becomes through legal and negotiating approaches with the prov- unsafe, and eventually they have to go into the emer- ince and the TNDC conducting business under the rules gency room — expensive long-term care for the rest of and regulations set by that framework is a key to success. their lives. I congratulate former TNDC CEO, Bill Adsit, current It doesn’t have to be this way. We know what we need CEO president Garry Merkel and board chair Calvin to do, but we need to do it better. Home care is the solu- Carlick for their vision, hard work and for the award. tion. Don’t we all want to spend our health care dollars When it comes down to it, it’s all about sustaining the wisely, cut down on emergency room visits? Don’t we all people, while taking care of the traditional territories. want good lives for our fellow citizens as they age, regard- less of their wealth? With the increasing age of British BUSINESS START-UPS IN PENTICTON Columbians, we will need to rely on home care and pre- ventative health care even more. D. Ashton: It gives me no end of pleasure in this Home care works. Constituents tell me that in some House to rise, as I do on occasion, to inform of the many cases they’re afraid of being able to do their laundry be- wonderful virtues of the area surrounding Penticton, cause they’re afraid they’re going to fall down and injure Summerland and Naramata. themselves. Constituents tell me of the 89 Saint Elizabeth [1405] home care workers who’ve recently been laid off, and they This time I’m thrilled shared to share the news with ask me: “What happens next? Why?” Constituents speak everyone that my hometown of Penticton has received gratefully about what a difference having a home care yet another accolade. Last week the Canadian Federation visit makes for their lives. It changes their lives for the of Independent Business released its rankings of the best better. But some constituents aren’t able to get that help. places in Canada to start and grow a business. It should Home care workers do better, and so must we. We need now come as no surprise to the members that Penticton to honour our home care workers, thank them. They are fared very well in those rankings — so well, in fact, that our eyes, our ears, our voices, our arms, our hearts in I’m proud to say that Penticton is ranked as the best place helping the most vulnerable in our communities. They in British Columbia to start and grow a business. are asking for our help in this House so that they can What makes this ranking even sweeter is that among succeed. When they succeed, our communities succeed. B.C. cities, Penticton finished one spot ahead of our lar- When they succeed, our economies succeed. When they ger rival to the north, Kelowna. In fact, the only place in succeed, our health care system succeeds. Canada that ranked ahead of Penticton is the Calgary I ask all of us to thank a home care worker and look at periphery, the group of municipalities that surround the what we can do to help them succeed. Alberta metropolis, which scored only three-tenths of a point ahead of Penticton. Therefore I have the pleasure to DESERT HILLS RANCH announce that Penticton is the best small city in Canada to start and grow a business. J. Tegart: Early in the 20th century, settlers in the area As the MLA for Penticton and the former mayor of around Ashcroft found that the rich volcanic soil there that incredibly fine city, this honour fills me with incred- produced some of the best produce in the world. They ible pride. These rankings by the CFIB are based on the found that as long as you added water to the fertile soil, strong concentration of entrepreneurs, the high busi- almost anything would grow. ness start-up rate, the optimism and success of business More than 100 years later, Desert Hills Ranch is com- owners and — what I think is incredibly important — the mitted to bringing its customers the finest produce avail- continuation of good public policy. able. From the careful selection of only the best seed to In addition to being an amazing place to live, Penticton the gentle harvesting and packing, Desert Hills monitors has created a business-friendly environment that inspires its products every step of the way to ensure that its cus- and rewards entrepreneurship. The message to all entre- tomers receive the best product on the market. preneurs in this is: Penticton is ready to accommodate Desert Hills Ranch Farm Market in Ashcroft has been you. We’ll see you there soon. owned and operated by the Porter family since 1983. They grow more than 40 products, including the finest HOME CARE watermelon, cantaloupes and honeydew melons, field and Roma tomatoes, onions, potatoes, carrots, peppers, S. Chandra Herbert: Imagine this: not being able beets and much more. They supply several retail out- to prepare your meals or take medication, stuck with lets in British Columbia, including Superstore and the dirty clothes and soiled bedding, left at home alone, no Overwaitea Food Group and Co-op. Of course, their Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9843

products can be purchased right at the farm gate in Oral Questions Ashcroft. [1410] GOVERNMENT RECORD-KEEPING Business has been so strong that production has tri- AND FREEDOM OF INFORMATION pled in the past three years, and the number of employees has increased to 200 from just 20 three years ago. J. Horgan: For months, we’ve been asking the B.C. Food and safety and the environment are a top prior- Liberal government why it is that when we ask for ity for David Porter and the staff at Desert Hills Ranch. documents, when we ask for information about policy They strive to protect the land they cultivate by follow- decisions, when we ask for information about basic con- ing the most rigid environmental stewardship practices. sultations, we continue to get “no records” responses. For the best-tasting, freshest B.C.-grown produce, I Last week the Information And Privacy Commissioner recommend a visit to Desert Hills Ranch whenever you’re issued a report entitled Access Denied: Record Retention in the Ashcroft area, and please look for their brand in and Disposal Practices of the Government of British your local supermarket. Columbia. The minister responsible tried to characterize it as an administrative report on purely technical matters. FOOD CULTURE AND CAMOSUN COLLEGE But the heart of the issue, as we now know, goes right into CULINARY ARTS PROGRAM the heart of the Premier’s office. Yesterday I asked the Premier if she would apologize to L. Popham: For as long as I remember, I’ve been fas- Tim Duncan, the courageous whistle-blower who came cinated and captivated by the world of food. From grow- forward when he was bullied by an official in the Minister ing it to preparing it, I’m interested in every step and in of Transportation’s office and directed to delete e-mails every role there is to be played. This fascination has led that he felt needed to be retained to respond to an access- me to believe that every farmer needs a chef, and every to-information investigation. She refused to offer an ex- chef needs a farmer. planation or an apology to Mr. Duncan. We asked her why it was that the person responsible If you want to be a great farmer, you have to work with for freedom of information in her office used a tracking great farmers, and if you want to become a great chef, you system consisting of Post-it Notes, and she didn’t answer. have to work with great chefs. If you want a great meal, We asked the Premier why she had said in May, and then you make sure you’re friends with both. again as recently as this fall, that she wouldn’t tolerate The strength and growth of the local food movement anyone working in the government that wasn’t abiding has brought together farmers, chefs and eaters like never by the rules and yet Ms. Cadario and Mr. Facey, identi- before. The passion for good food is one that drives many fied by the commissioner, continue to be in the employ of us, and in British Columbia, we are surrounded by of the province of British Columbia. people with this passion. The calibre of our chefs is extra- My question again, given 24 hours, is to the Premier. ordinary, and as eaters, we get to reap the benefits of this Will she do the right thing, apologize to Mr. Duncan and talent at our local restaurants. also follow through on her commitment to ensure that You can be born with the passion for food, but to em- people working under her are not breaking the law? brace it professionally, training is a must. Saanich South [1415] is home to one of the best and most successful Red Seal–designated professional cook-training programs in Hon. C. Clark: We certainly do, as I’ve said a num- Canada at the Camosun College Culinary Arts Centre. ber of times, take the report that the commissioner has Led by five amazing chefs — chef Gilbert Noussitou, chef provided us very seriously. We’re thankful for the direc- Clemens Dober, chef Nikolaas Sillem, chef Steve Walker- tion she’s given us. We are acting on that direction, hir- Duncan and chef Michael Weaver — this culinary pro- ing David Loukidelis, a former Information and Privacy gram is world-class, and it is one to support. Commissioner, to make sure that we give life to her The public is invited to do just that by making a res- recommendations throughout government. ervation at the ClassRoom Restaurant. The ClassRoom That means ensuring that training is properly and ad- Restaurant offers gourmet dinners prepared and served equately done throughout staff. It means helping make by senior students. Dinner at the ClassRoom Restaurant sure that what are defined as transitory documents is is more than a meal; it’s a unique dining experience. consistent across government and making sure that we’re Besides enjoying a fabulous four-course meal at a great up to date on technological change. There is work to do price, only $32.95, guests have an opportunity to contrib- there, and we’ve certainly begun work on it. ute to an exceptional learning experience for tomorrow’s So in answer to the member’s question: yes, we are very chefs and cooks. busy making sure that happens. Mr. Loukidelis has been To the Camosun culinary arts program: thank you for retained. In the meantime, all political staff and all min- all you do. The world tastes better because of you. isters have been directed not to delete any e-mails, even 9844 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

those that are transitory, until we get further direction duplicates, are, under the act, allowed to be disposed of, from Mr. Loukidelis and further clarification and train- as they properly are. Individuals who originate docu- ing across government. ments should be keeping them and making sure that That, I think, will go a long way to ensuring that we those are available for freedom of information. In fact, are able to not just answer the member’s questions but, many documents related to the issue that the member much more importantly, to make sure that we’re speak- has raised — all of the documents that were identified ing to the citizens of British Columbia, who have a just — have been passed on to the Ombudsman’s office, and and fair expectation that documents that government they will all be released publicly. We don’t…. When the has a duty to retain are properly retained and available Ombudsman is finished his work, those will be released. to them under FOI. So it’s certainly not true for the member or other mem- bers to suggest that there are no documents. There are, Madame Speaker: The Leader of the Official Oppo­ and they have been passed on to the Ombudsman’s office sition on a supplemental. as part of that review. We’re looking forward to the results of that review as well. I hope that the member will stand J. Horgan: It’s a shame that the Premier doesn’t take up and ensure that he corrects the record with respect to what she says seriously. It’s a shame that the Premier documents, because those documents do exist. doesn’t give life to her own comments around this issue. In May, she said that she would not tolerate…. I in- Interjections. terpret that…. Maybe it’s an interpretation issue. Not tolerating something usually means that you’re going Madame Speaker: Order. to address it in a meaningful way, not by saying: “We brought in an individual from the past who’s going to Hon. C. Clark: I will just finish by saying this. The vi- make sure that we don’t do it again.” sion of this government doesn’t need to be communicat- Well, they said they wouldn’t do it again in 2012. They ed by the press secretary or anybody else. The vision of said they wouldn’t do it again in 2013. Now here we are, this government is clear to every member of this govern- two years later, and we’re still not going to do it again. ment and, I think, to most British Columbians. The vi- But it’s not just Ms. Cadario who has an absence of sion of this government is to make sure that we grow the records. It’s not just the Premier who has an absence of economy, that we lift thousands of people in First Nations records. We contacted, as I said yesterday and we raised communities out of poverty, that we make sure that we here yesterday, the Premier’s office and asked if Mr. Dyble, pay off our debt so that our children will not be living her deputy minister, had any records, any documentation under that burden when we are done here. around litigation, around internal investigations, around the botched firing of seven health care workers. Now, one [1420] would think, with all of the activity around that file, that That is our vision for British Columbia. I’m happy to someone in the Premier’s office would have kept a scrap have the opportunity to talk about it today, but again, I of paper, but that is not the case. don’t need a communications director to do that. I’m very We then asked for another series of information from happy to do it myself. the Premier’s communications director, Ben Chin. We asked if he had kept any records or documents over a Madame Speaker: The Leader of the Official Oppo­ period of time. You can well imagine the response we sition on a further supplemental. got, even though, at the time, the Premier’s flagship legislation with respect to oppressing municipalities, the J. Horgan: It’s interesting. The Premier’s confession Auditor General for Local Government, was a fiasco in that not one original idea or document comes out of her the making and we were just about to not hire her for- office is quite extraordinary — quite extraordinary after mer colleague George Abbott. But the communications four years. “We don’t originate anything here. We just director, the guy responsible for making some sense of get up and say whatever is in our head.” That’s leadership. the incoherence in the Premier’s office, did not keep one I know the people of British Columbia will take enor- scrap of paper. mous comfort — enormous comfort — knowing that So my question, again, to the Premier is: if the Premier’s not a single person making six figures working in the director of communications doesn’t write anything down Premier’s office ever creates a single idea. It all comes — he doesn’t send any e-mails — how is it that he com- full blown out of her forehead. That’s extraordinary. Zeus municates her inexplicable vision to the people of British has arrived here in the Legislature, and we don’t write a Columbia? darned thing down. It’s not just…. Hon. C. Clark: Well, as I’ve pointed out in the House previously, transitory records, which include unnecessary Interjections. Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9845

Madame Speaker: Members. Members. On Thursday, government issued a statement in which Please continue. the Premier’s office announced that, effective immediate- ly, John Dyble would assume responsibility for freedom- J. Horgan: It’s not just the director of communica- of-information requests in the Premier’s office. On tions, it’s not just the deputy to the Premier, it’s not just Tuesday, the Premier claimed that David Loukidelis, the Premier and it’s not just the deputy chief of staff that not John Dyble, would solve the FOI evasions in the don’t create anything. We did a freedom-of-information Premier’s office. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that request to the chief of staff, a 25-year veteran of this place. Tuesday’s Premier didn’t agree with Thursday’s Premier. In fact, he was working for the government of British Perhaps she deleted her statement. Columbia before the NDP brought in the Freedom of How will putting in the man who has openly flouted Information Act. I would think that he has had a quarter B.C.’s FOI law in the Boessenkool affair and the health of a century to understand interpretation. firing debacle restore public faith that the Premier’s of- We asked him if he had any records at all about a pretty fice is actually obeying the law? busy month for the Premier. It would be the month of June, when she was planning, announcing and cancelling Hon. C. Clark: The member speaks to the issue I Om the Bridge. That was a pretty busy time for political have already spoken to, as well, which is the fact that we operatives. I recall reading a good deal of comment on want to make sure the act is being applied consistently that in the public press. I would have thought that the across government. That’s why Mr. Loukidelis, a former chief political fixer in the Premier’s office would have Information and Privacy Commissioner himself, a for- maybe dispatched an e-mail or two to some subordinate mer Deputy Attorney General, is coming in — to make saying: “We should fix this.” But apparently not. sure that we are able to bring all of those recommenda- We have the Premier, the deputy to the Premier, the tions to life and make sure that it’s happening in a trans- chief of staff to the Premier, the deputy chief of staff to parent way throughout the public service. the Premier, the communications director to the Premier When the member talks about dividends, she raises an and, of course, the guy with the Post-it Notes. He’s the issue that should be talked about — 1,000 new child care only one writing things down, but he doesn’t keep them. spaces, a B.C. early childhood tax benefit, a B.C. training My question to the Premier is: why should anyone and education savings grant, a B.C. access grant, a sin- in British Columbia have any confidence in her and her gle-parent employment initiative and the lowest overall office? provincial taxes in Canada, which means we leave more money in people’s pockets to spend how they see fit rather Hon. C. Clark: I can give the member a couple of an- than think that government can spend it better for them. swers to that question. That is a real, tangible dividend for the people of British Look at how well British Columbia is doing com- Columbia. If you want to talk about confidence in who is pared to North America, compared to Canada. Look at going to grow the economy, who is going to put working the $11½ billion, a record amount in the history of our people on jobsites, who is going to make sure there is a province, that we have budgeted for constructing infra- future, a great future, for people’s kids across our prov- structure, including Site C. ince, it’s this government. Those are the things we believe Look at the number of jobs that we’re creating. We’ve in. It’s our platform, it’s our plan, and it’s what we’re exe- seen the biggest decrease in unemployment, since the cuting on every single day. jobs plan was introduced, of any province in Canada. We have balanced three budgets. We will balance a Madame Speaker: Kootenay West on a supplemental. fourth. We are running a surplus, and that surplus repre- sents a dividend for the people of British Columbia that K. Conroy: And the highest child poverty in the coun- we can begin to share in a society that is founded on a try for how many years in a row? Let’s not forget that one. wealthy, a highly functioning, a job-creating private sector The Information and Privacy Commissioner said: “I that puts people in every corner of our province to work. would have expected that staff…in the Office of the If he wants to know why people should have confi- Premier would have a better understanding of…their dence in this government, it’s because I and this great obligation to file, retain and provide relevant records team that I work with have done everything we can to when an access request is received.” In other words, make sure that British Columbia is truly the best-per- John Dyble, the Premier’s choice to lead the public ser- forming province in Canada. vice, should know better. Yet for more than two years, he [1425] failed to retain a single record on the biggest human re- sources crisis in B.C. K. Conroy: Well, the people of British Columbia My question is to the Premier. How is it possible that would think it would be a dividend if the government the man she picked to solve the culture of delete in her actually was open and transparent, as they say they are. office failed to keep any records on a human resources 9846 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

debacle that cost a man his life and will cost taxpayers which connects people to all of the available resources; millions? the $75,000 that’s been provided to the Carrier-Sekani for driver education and training. Hon. C. Clark: As I commented a little bit earlier today, I will say this again. There is more to do. That is why, in Mr. Dyble was not the decision-maker, so those records partnership with the First Nations Health Authority, we were kept elsewhere. Those records, though, have been are very proud to be co-hosting, co-sponsoring, a sympo- sent to the Ombudsman’s office, and the Ombudsman is sium in November in Smithers where, again, we will be looking through all those records as part of his investiga- bringing together representatives of all the First Nations, tion. We look forward to that concluding and the public local governments and other stakeholders to further as- release of all of those records. sess and discuss and identify initiatives which will make With respect to poverty, I do want to just correct the that corridor even safer. record on that. Seventy-five thousand children have been lifted out of poverty. We have seen the poverty rate Madame Speaker: Alberni–Pacific Rim on a supple- for children in this province decline by 41 percent, the mental. second-lowest poverty rate in British Columbia since 1980, long before the NDP ever saw the government side S. Fraser: The minister’s political staff destroyed key of the House. information relating to a decision made on the Highway [1430] of Tears by this government that could affect the lives of What we understand…. The way we were able to the women in the north. The Coalition on Murdered and change the terrible rate on child poverty produced under Missing Indigenous Women is outraged at the fact that a decade of NDP government was to focus on growing the B.C. Liberals deliberately destroyed records regarding the economy, creating opportunities for people to be lift- the Highway of Tears. ed out of poverty and then targeting supports to people Like the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, and like the fam- who really need them. ilies of the missing and murdered women, they are all The difference between us and them is this. What they shocked by the actions of this minister, of this Premier focus on is trying to just make it a little more comfort- and this Liberal government. They’re asking the gov- able, a little easier, for people to stay in poverty. What we ernment to formally apologize to the families of the believe in is trying to lift people out of poverty, to try and murdered and missing for the wilful destruction of the change that cycle and fix those issues in their lives forever. e-mails and reports related to the Highway of Tears. Will the Premier stand in this House today and do just HIGHWAY 16 ISSUES AND that and apologize to those families? GOVERNMENT RECORD-KEEPING Hon. T. Stone: The member opposite — in fact, the S. Fraser: Chief Terry Teegee of the Carrier-Sekani opposition — needs to, at some point, understand that Tribal Council, who lost a cousin on the Highway of Tears, official records, decision documents, reside in the min- says that the commissioner’s revelations have “shaken our istry. All of the records that the members opposite are confidence in how government are treating the whole referring to exist. They exist. They’re retained. They’re Highway of Tears initiative.” saved. They’re available for FOI purposes in the ministry. Why should anyone trust the Premier, when the B.C. Liberal government’s track record is to put their politic- Interjections. al gain, their political coverage, ahead of the lives of the women on the Highway of Tears? Madame Speaker: Members. The Chair needs to hear the question and the answer. Hon. T. Stone: Again, on behalf of the government of [1435] British Columbia, and certainly as the minister respon- sible for Transportation, I want to once again reiterate the Hon. T. Stone: Thank you, hon. Speaker. fact that we acknowledge the history and the pain that I would also like to take this opportunity…. We have has been experienced by far too many families who live acknowledged — the commissioner in her determina- up and down Highway 16. This is why we have worked tion that there were 36 pages of a request that was made very hard for many years — in fact, predating my time as back in February — that the scope was too narrow on the minister responsible — on a wide range of initiatives. that request. So we’re very much working to produce I have spoken about a number of these initiatives in those documents. But I also think it’s important, for the the past: the transit services which are in place, about record, to reiterate for this House that since 2012, there $1.5 million per year, that connect a number of commun- have been six FOI requests on the topic of Highway 16, ities; the Northern Health bus, which is funded at about totalling over 600 pages of information. Three of these $2 million per year; the web portal that was established, requests were loaded onto open gov., and three were in- Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9847

formation that was sent right to the requesters. I know Fraser Health are so long, he’s going to have to wait until this because I have the material here in my hands. April 2016. There are over 600 pages of material, mostly un-re- My question is to the Minister of Health. Why does dacted, on Highway 16 — FOI requests — which have Peter have to wait almost a year in order to find out why been released to requesters or have been posted on open he’s suffering from such unbearable pain? gov. to this point. To simply suggest that there is any at- tempt on the government’s part to withhold key informa- Hon. T. Lake: As always, physicians have the ability tion is simply not true. to ensure that if someone needs an emergent diagnostic procedure, they will have it right away. In Fraser Health, GOVERNMENT RECORD-KEEPING we have performed an additional 800 surgeries and an AND FREEDOM OF INFORMATION additional 3,400 MRIs between January and March of this year. M. Farnworth: In this House today, we have asked the [1440] Premier about missing e-mails and information requests We do recognize, however, that there are people wait- related to one of the most awful human resource issues in ing longer than we would like for some of these pro- this province that resulted in the death of an individual. cedures. We’re working very hard with all of our health The Premier felt that that was not worthy of a response. authorities to make sure we can reduce those wait times, We have asked questions in this House related to the and I’m confident that we can do that. Highway of Tears and missing women. Again, the Premier felt those questions were not worthy of a response. Madame Speaker: The member for New Westminster We have asked questions related to other issues around on a supplemental. the retention of information that are supposed to comply with the act, of freedom of information. The Premier has J. Darcy: Peter McQuade is not alone. There are thou- not thought those worthy of a response. Can she explain sands of other British Columbians like him, and many of that to this House? them are waiting even longer than Peter. Some are being booked into 2017. In fact, the notification that Peter and Hon. C. Clark: Well, there are a number of processes other patients receive for their booking says, “Please note underway, as the member knows. The Ombudsman’s re- the year of the appointment” — the year. Why? Because port is underway. He is in receipt of many records that some patients are actually showing up a year earlier than would otherwise immediately be available under free- the time of their appointment. dom of information, I believe, as part of his work. Those The government’s own benchmarks say that no one documents, those records, will be released when he says should have to wait more than 60 days for an MRI, and they can be released. that’s for the least urgent cases. Yet according to an FOI In addition to that, our government is making sure request about Fraser Health filed by the official oppos- that we give life to the recommendations of the Privacy ition, the government is only meeting its own benchmark Commissioner. There’s no one better, I don’t think, in the in Fraser Health in 15 percent of the cases — 15 percent. country than David Loukidelis to make sure that we do Surely, we can do better. Peter McQuade is suffering. that, ensuring that there’s proper training across govern- And it’s not a laughing matter. Peter McQuade is suffering. ment and making sure that the act is being consistently He can’t get treatment until he gets a proper diagnosis. applied all across government. That’s what we’re hiring My question is to the Minister of Health. Why is this him to do, and I can’t think of anyone better to do that. government not even meeting its own benchmark for I have given those answers a number of times. I don’t MRI wait times? think it’s fair for the member to assume that he knows what I think and what I feel, because I have done my best Hon. T. Lake: In fact, the number of MRIs done in to answer all the questions that have been put here today. British Columbia since 2001 has more than tripled, so Those processes are underway. We look forward to their we are doing far more MRI procedures than ever before. conclusion. There is more to do, and Mr. Loukidelis will However, we understand, with an aging population, par- draw us a road map of how we make sure we get that done. ticularly, that we have to increase the number of MRIs available. I have asked my ministry to work with all the MRI WAITING TIMES IN health authorities and ensure that we can reduce those FRASER HEALTH AUTHORITY wait times. I recognize that in health care, we always can do better. J. Darcy: Peter McQuade, who lives in Surrey, has We have one of the best-performing health care systems been in severe pain since April of this year. His doctors in Canada, but we’re not going to settle there. We’re go- said from the very start that he needs an MRI to diag- ing to continue to improve our system to make sure all nose the source of his pain, but because the wait-lists in British Columbians get the best health care in the world. 9848 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

FUNDING FOR SCHOOL FACILITIES my constituency today, the grade 5 classes from Surrey Christian School. We’ve had Ms. Hofstede’s grade 5 class S. Robinson: Maple Ridge school board has had to and Ms. Kay’s grade 5 class. choose between window coverings for portables and ser- Would the House please make them feel welcome. vices for students. As a result, teachers have been asked if they could find some cardboard, cut it to shape and pre- Interjections. pare it for use as window coverings. That way, if they need to shade the windows from sunlight to keep out the heat Madame Speaker: Members. of the day or they have to shade so that the classroom can actually see the overhead projector, they can simply tack Interjection. up the cardboard to cover the windows. In fact, as part of keeping our children safe, it’s proto- Madame Speaker: Vancouver–Point Grey. col in the event of a lockdown to close blinds so that any potential intruder cannot see into the classroom. But at Orders of the Day this Maple Ridge school, teachers were told that in the event of a lockdown, the teacher is supposed to quickly Hon. M. de Jong: Continued debate on Motion 26. tack this cardboard up so that the intruder cannot see the students in the classroom. Government Motions on Notice My question is to the Minister of Education. Will he admit that his government’s so-called administrative sav- MOTION 26 — ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES ings are affecting our kids’ classrooms and stop under- COMMISSION REPORT PROPOSALS funding our education system so that schools like these (continued) in Maple Ridge can have proper window coverings, like blinds, instead of cardboard? [R. Chouhan in the chair.]

Hon. M. Bernier: Actually, on this side of the House, M. Mungall: It’s my pleasure to rise and speak to one of the things we’re really proud about is the fact that the motion to receive the report from the Electoral we work well with the parents, we work well with the Boundaries Commission, as they are proposing to change teachers, and we work well with the school districts in the the electoral boundaries for the upcoming 2017 election. province. In fact, we’ve invested more than $1.4 billion in I want to take this opportunity to thank the commis- the last few years just on improved schools, working on sion for their work. It’s not an easy job to look at the seismic, working on safety in the classrooms. map of B.C. and look at how our electoral boundaries One thing is important to mention here. What’s really are shaped and what they need to do to rework those important is the positiveness that we have on this side boundaries to ensure that people are represented — that of the House when we talk about the education system. we have a strong representation by population but also What’s unfortunate is we always have to hear the NDP by region — and to hear from people right across this besmirch the system. province in terms of how their communities connect, [1445] how they work together in terms of what they do on a You want to talk about outcomes, you talk about what day-to-day basis, just living and working together in their happens in the schools. We’re rolling out a new curricu- communities on the variety of issues that they may have. lum. Why? Because we’re educating our students today. For example, in Nelson-Creston, agriculture is a very We’re educating them for the jobs of today and tomor- important issue in my area — and how the Creston Valley row. If it wasn’t for this side of the House, if these people connects and works together on the issue of agriculture were in government, there wouldn’t be jobs tomorrow. So and how they want to see them stay together in working I want to thank this side of the House for the great work on that issue and with their elected representative. our members are doing. It’s not an easy task for the commission to go out and speak with four million people on how they’d like to see [End of question period.] their electoral boundaries look, in terms of how that im- pacts their representation. Not an easy task, but they did Hon. A. Virk: I seek leave to make an introduction. it, and they did it well. They had some constraints this time around, as we all Leave granted. know. One of the things that they had to take into con- sideration is that there were 11 ridings, I believe — 11 Introductions by Members rural ridings — that were not going to be changed what- soever. They were going to be protected regardless of Hon. A. Virk: I’ve had two classes visiting me from whether their population met the average or even the re- Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9849

quirements under the Election Act, historically, in terms be maintained in this report. Of course, I know that there of their population. are 84 other MLAs in this chamber that are very assertive [1450] that they represent the best riding in British Columbia, For example, what the Election Act says is that con- but the truth is that Nelson-Creston is actually the best stituencies cannot deviate from the average by more riding in British Columbia for many reasons. than plus or minus 25 percent. That’s no longer the case The geography. We can start there with the geography. for those particular rural ridings, and Nelson-Creston is Nelson-Creston is 13,212 square kilometres. On the east one of those ridings. side, it goes all the way to Yahk in the Creston Valley, then We didn’t see much of the Boundary Commission this heads north through the Purcells and all the way around time around. We did engage with them back in 2007, the north end of Duncan Lake, comes back south past 2008, when they were redrafting the boundaries at that Kaslo, then heads west at Balfour and takes in the west time. They came through Nelson and Creston to hear arm of Kootenay Lake. what we had to say about the boundaries. Heading past Salmo to South Slocan, just before you The original proposal would have taken four ridings meet the junction between Highway 3A and Highway out of the Kootenays and only had three ridings. Some 6, it cuts off. Highway 6 belongs to my good neighbour, of the things that we said at the time and that still hold the MLA for Kootenay West. She has Mount Sentinel true today — maybe not to the extent that we’re seeing School on her side of the line. For those who are watch- with this current map, but they do hold true — are that ing back home wondering where that line is, it’s just the we do have to create a balance between representation property line between Mount Sentinel School and the by population and the regional realities that are here in Twelve Tribes farm. Canada and particularly in British Columbia. [1455] We don’t want the people in rural areas to be at a dis- Then it goes south from there, down to the U.S. bor- service of having good representation simply because der, and includes Salmo and the surrounding areas in the there is a sparse population in their region, and it could district of Salmo. We don’t include Fruitvale or Montrose take you two or three hours to get to your representative or Warfield. Those are part of Kootenay West. But we do because of that sparse population. have some of the rural communities just outside of Salmo, It’s fair to say that we do need to have regional rep- closer to the Bombi junction. Those are the boundaries. resentation, and that’s why we had the plus or minus of But what’s really amazing about Nelson-Creston are 25 percent. Nelson-Creston now and in this particular re- those 13,212 square kilometres inside the boundaries. port is actually at minus 30.5 percent from the average. So Like I said, the Purcells are on the boundary on the east we’re deviating by 30.5 percent, and that means that our side. Then throughout the entire riding, we have the total population in Nelson-Creston is 36,907. beautiful Selkirk Mountains, which are a very old moun- I can appreciate that if we increased the size of Nelson- tain range, not as high and as rocky as the peaks of the Creston to perhaps the former boundaries of what it was Rocky Mountains but more of a rolling mountain. They under my predecessor — the MLA for Nelson-Creston at are absolutely stunning to look at. We’re surrounded by the time, — the Slocan Valley was includ- them. They’re very, very tight as well. ed in Nelson-Creston right up to Nakusp. I know today We don’t have large valleys. Kootenay Lake, over the I still feel some challenges in being able to get out to all last millions of years that it has been forming, has not the communities I represent as much as I would like to. provided a large valley. In fact, it’s a very narrow valley. And I couldn’t imagine having that much larger a riding. As a result, it’s not necessarily an easy riding to navigate. But we do it. We see our federal counterparts do it. So In fact, the longest straight stretch in Nelson-Creston is we do make it work. a whole 3.4 kilometres. Right now, with the deviation of minus 30.5, there is a A little while ago, I put a contest on Facebook for little bit of concern that maybe Nelson-Creston is being people to guess where that 3.4 kilometres is. There were over-represented, but I think that’s more of a discussion some really wonderful guesses — all the way from a for another day. straight stretch that is between Creston and Yahk and an- Right now, it’s about the commission’s report, what other straight stretch that is at the north end of Kootenay they’ve done and the fact that they had quite the chal- Lake to another one closer to Salmo, between Nelson lenge on their hands to comply to the constraints that and Salmo, on Highway 6. In fact, where it is, is on the were imposed on them by this government but also to Creston flats. This is one area where we do have a little meet the requirements of the Election Act and ensure bit of a larger valley — on the Creston flats. That’s why that they have sufficient public input. I do think that they you have the longer straight stretch. met the task that was before them and we have a good This is the historical drainage essentially produced by the electoral boundaries proposal from them at this stage. Kootenay River flowing into Kootenay Lake. Historically, If I can, I would like to speak about Nelson-Creston this area would flood every year and produce some of the under the current electoral boundaries that are going to most amazing wetlands, and it would recede every year as 9850 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

the spring runoff from the mountains discontinued. The cherry juice is being produced by my friends Susan and water would recede, and the Kootenay River would con- Gary Snow. It’s called Tabletree cherry juice. They truly tinue to flow into Kootenay Lake. The water would pull did win the award for the world’s best juice. The year fol- back. Historically, the First Nations would collect a lot of lowing that, they won the award for the world’s best apple the natural vegetation in that area for their food. juice. So I’m not kidding when I say some of the best food Nowadays we see farmers who have come into the you’ll ever eat comes from the Creston Valley. valley. In fact, Creston was originally settled…. The First You might think that the Creston Valley is not able to Nations settled it and were living in the area, and then the grow citrus fruit, but you’d be wrong, because the Creston European settlers came in. They settled it in a way that Valley is growing citrus fruit in their greenhouses. You was a bit different than the rest of the riding. I’ll come can even get oranges and limes and lemons. The farmers back to what brought Europeans to the rest of the riding. there are very creative in experimenting with citrus fruits. What brought Europeans to the Creston Valley was You can pretty much get anything you’d like to eat from that farming potential that resulted from the Kootenay the Creston Valley. And that’s all within 100 kilometres River receding and depositing incredible amounts of — or 100 miles, as the 100-mile diet goes. I’ve brought nutrients onto the land base around the Kootenay River that up here in this House before. One of the things that in what is the Creston Valley. makes Nelson-Creston so great is that you can have a full It’s still a tight valley, but my goodness, doesn’t it pro- 100-mile diet in Nelson-Creston because we also produce duce some of the best food you’ll ever eat, hon. Speaker? grains. We have amazing grain growers as well. This is one of the contributing factors that makes Nelson- I don’t just say it. I try to live it as much as I possibly Creston the best riding in British Columbia. I’m sorry. I can in my home. My husband and I, when we got mar- know you represent the wonderful riding of Burnaby- ried in 2011, wanted to show our family the wonderful Edmonds, and it is fantastic. But Nelson-Creston is just abundance of the Kootenays and everything that can a little bit better. One of the reasons…. grow within 100 miles of our house. We hosted a 100- I have MLAs from other areas who are insisting their mile wedding feast. Everything that we served came from riding is actually better than Nelson-Creston. I hate to the Kootenays, 100 miles of Nelson. Most notably, pretty disappoint, but Nelson-Creston, I do believe, does re- much 95 percent of that came from the Creston Valley. main the best riding. Being able to have that lifestyle is great. It really shows One of the reasons, as I was going to say, is the food that the connection between Creston and Nelson is right that’s produced in the Creston Valley. It truly is remark- on our dinner plate. What’s on our dinner plates is very able. The best asparagus you’ll ever eat comes from important to policy and government decision-making Sutcliffe Farms — yes, colleagues do know this to be and representation. That’s why Nelson-Creston continues true — which grows this asparagus right on the Creston to be a riding where these two communities — these two flats, on the Kootenay Lake flats that I was just describing. important communities in the Kootenays — are linked. They grow it right there, and it truly is just remarkable. Just to share with you some of the history of when [1500] that link first took place, it was 1933 when the riding It is crisp. It is fresh. It’s just vibrancy as you bite into of Nelson-Creston first appeared on the hustings in the this asparagus. The same can be said for the carrots that general election. It appeared after a redistribution of are grown out in Canyon. And of course, the dairy pro- that time. It was just the riding of Nelson, and there was duction that exists all throughout the Kootenay valley is, a riding of Creston. So there were more ridings, and the bar none, some of the best dairy you’ll ever eat, as well, population was smaller. In fact, Frank Putnam won that because of what the cows are eating. The cows are eating election in 1933 with 50 percent of the vote. So 2,489 the hay that is grown in the Creston Valley. They’re eat- people voted for Frank. There was a total of 5,162 voters. ing the grasses that grow up from this mineral-rich soil Now contrast that with the last election. We have about in the Creston Valley. 26,000 registered voters in Nelson-Creston. A good per- It would be terrible for me to leave this chamber at the centage of them…. We see about 60 to 70 percent of end of my time without mentioning the cherries of the people coming out to vote. Contrast that with only 5,000 Creston Valley. Then, of course, I know the apple growers voters. Now we have 26,000 people who are registered to and the strawberry growers and everybody else is going vote in Nelson-Creston. to be quite upset with me. But we all know that Creston [1505] is well known for its cherries. Again, it’s that richness of In that same election, in 1933, that was also a signifi- the Creston Valley and the water that exists in our area cant year for the predecessor to the New Democratic that allows us to produce all this phenomenal food, in- Party. The Co-operative Commonwealth Federation was cluding those amazing cherries that people love to stop founded in that year, and they ran a candidate in Nelson- for in cherry season. Creston. For as long as Nelson-Creston has been around, I will remind members that the world’s best juice is the New Democratic Party and its predecessor, the CCF, produced from those cherries. That’s right. The best have also been running candidates. Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9851

In 1933, the candidate for the CCF garnered 23 percent Lorne was a young man when he first ran for Nelson- of the vote. It’s a little bit different now. We’re the succes- Creston, and I have been very, very privileged to get sor to the CCF — the NDP. We garner about 50 to…. I to know him in recent years as a mentor to me, since think our highest total, in 2005 with Corky Evans, was I was elected in 2009. Lorne has a deep passion for the 60 percent. We’ve come a long way, just like the riding of Kootenays and a deep commitment to social justice. Nelson-Creston has come a long way. [1510] I do want to acknowledge that it was 1953 that saw the Every election you see him there, because that passion highest voter turnout for Nelson-Creston. Now, Nelson- for the Kootenays, that passion for social justice, he be- Creston — typically, we retain the right to brag that we lieves, is best met in his work in the democratic process. always have high voter turnouts. We always have a high- He never shies away from working in the democratic er voter turnout than the provincial average. Right now process. I’ve learned so much from Lorne over the years, that provincial average sits at about 52 or 53 percent, and and I’m so proud to be able to be filling his shoes, so to we’re 10 percentage points above that, at around 63 per- speak. He has done such a service to the Kootenays in cent. Unfortunately, that’s not where we have been his- representing us for a total of 14 years. torically. Our highest was in 1953, at 88 percent voter Another predecessor that I had the privilege of meet- turnout — 88 percent. I truly think that is amazing. The ing was Howard Dirks. Now, he was representing Nelson- Social Credit won the election of the day in 1953. Creston for the Social Credit Party from 1986 to 1991. I That high voter turnout, I think, is a real credit to got to know Howard when he was the executive director Nelson-Creston. I think we need to do our very best in for the Nelson and district economic development part- any future election to get back up to 88 percent or more. nership. When I was first elected to city council in 2002, That would be amazing to see — more than 88 percent. I Mr. Dirks had that position. I met him at that time and think we need to set ourselves a goal in Nelson-Creston got to know him through his work in terms of economic to achieve that 1953 high of 88 percent voter turnout. development for the area. He worked very hard for the Only good things happen when people come out to vote. area in that position. I saw that firsthand. That’s democracy in action — absolutely. I have no doubt that he had that same work ethic when I spoke a little bit about one of my predecessors, Corky he was an MLA for five years from 1986 to 1991. I didn’t Evans, and I talked about other predecessors — Frank get to see that firsthand. If I was living in the Kootenays, I Putnam, for example. But I’ve had the privilege of actually would have been eight years old when he was first elected. meeting four of my predecessors. I would have appreciated knowing my MLA at the time, First let me talk about Lorne Nicolson, who repre- but I would not necessarily have had the full breadth of sented Nelson-Creston — again, with different bound- understanding of everything that he was doing for the re- aries than what’s being proposed here in this report. But gion at the time. No doubt he was working very hard and it was the Nelson-Creston riding. He represented Nelson- serving the people of Nelson-Creston very well. I thank Creston from 1972 through to 1986. him for doing that. In 1973 — I believe it was, if I’m remembering my his- I’ll also mention another MLA before I get to the tory books correctly — Lorne was named the Minister biggest shoes that I have to fill. An MLA named Blair of Housing under the Dave Barrett government. It was Suffredine represented Nelson-Creston from 2001 to quite an honour for Nelson-Creston to have a minister 2005. He certainly made his mark on this seat at that in the government and to be representing an issue that is time. He was actually preceded by and succeeded by so important to our region — and to anybody in British somebody who is without a doubt a legend in British Columbia. But the people in Nelson-Creston have a real Columbia politics. passion for affordable housing, so it was very wonder- It doesn’t matter where I go in B.C. People always ful for us to see somebody who understood that passion ask me: “How is he doing? How is Corky?” That’s right. be able to take what we have in Nelson-Creston, which Corky Evans represented Nelson-Creston with a lar- is a commitment to affordable housing, and be able to ger boundary set than what we see here in the Electoral take that responsibility forward for the rest of British Boundaries Commission motion that we’re speaking to Columbia as well. today. He represented a larger boundary, which includ- Lorne, though…. While I said he was elected in 1972, ed the Slocan Valley and Nakusp, from 1991 to 2001 and that wasn’t the first year he ran. He ran in 1969, at the again from 2005 to 2009. same age I first ran for Nelson-Creston — at 31 years Corky…. I’m going to just call him by his first name old. So Lorne was a young man while he was in the cab- throughout this speech, because he is a friend and an- inet of Dave Barrett and representing Nelson-Creston. I other mentor of mine. Corky was the Parliamentary have the honour of being a younger woman in the House Secretary to the Minister of Forests, and he was the — second-youngest. I’m very happy to pass the torch of Chair of the Legislature’s Select Standing Committee on youngest woman in the House on to my colleague the Forests, Mines and Petroleum Resources when he first member for Burnaby-Lougheed. entered the chamber. He was given some substantial re- 9852 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

sponsibilities right from the beginning. Of course, his If you get an opportunity and you see Corky Evans or ability to meet those responsibilities was very clear. Not Howard Dirks or Lorne Nicolson or Blair Suffredine or surprisingly, he became the Minister of Transportation myself on Baker Street, do say hello. That’s the way we roll and Highways. Following that, he also had the post of in the Kootenays. We’re friendly. We like to have a lot of Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. fun, and we always welcome visitors to come to what is After his first leadership race, he advocated…. Pardon truly the best riding in all of British Columbia. I’m sorry me, his second leadership race. This was his second to disappoint 84 other members, but it is true. Nelson- leadership race, and I’ll come back to that. After his Creston is the best place you can be in British Columbia. second leadership race…. During the race, he was advo- cating for a ministry of rural development, looking at…. S. Hamilton: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the oppor- The economic development and the social development tunity to speak on this most important issue. Although it and the environmental needs of rural B.C. were distinct doesn’t affect my riding directly — it remains unchanged and different than what was happening in urban areas, — it has had a significant effect on a number of people and we needed to put a very specific lens on that. that sit in this chamber. I guess we’re going to be intro- Corky advocated for that very successfully and became duced to two more after the next election. I don’t know the Minister for Rural Development following that leader- where we’re going to fit them all in, but I’m sure we will ship race, which he didn’t win. That’s democracy. That’s manage to squeeze. why we participate. He became the Minister for Rural Of course, we know that British Columbia is a prov- Development. Not long after that, heading into the 2001 ince that has vastly different areas. They range in density election, Corky was the Minister of Health and for Seniors. of population between urban centres and highly remote As I mentioned, my predecessor ran for the leadership rural regions. of the New Democratic Party not once, as is the case for In Canada, electoral districts are based primarily on most people who have a go at that, but twice. That shows, population and a formula known as the electoral quo- to me, his commitment to the people that he served. tient. The electoral quotient is an average population per [1515] electoral district, and it’s calculated by dividing the prov- I know that nobody disagrees with that — Corky’s incial population by the number of electoral districts. commitment to the people that he served and to bringing Now, I’m not going to drone on for 30 minutes. I don’t those ideas forward and to having the debate, having the have the capacity to say anything more in this House discussion, and to being a part of leadership in our party than has already been said on the issue of the Boundaries and in our province. Corky never shied away from that, Commission’s decision to modify the jurisdictions in the and he still doesn’t today. So not surprisingly, when time province. As a matter of fact, we have heard a lot. We’ve came to consider a new leader for the New Democratic heard a significant amount, and people in this gallery Party, Corky stepped up. He stepped up, and you see watching us and people watching on television must be him…. He wasn’t elected as leader, but he stepped up. wondering what in the world it is we’re doing here. He served this party well, and he served the region well. Having listened to the opposition speak to some ex- I see that my time is already up. I have so much more tent about this particular issue, I think I know this prov- that I could say about Corky Evans and so much more ince more intimately now than I ever did before. Corky that I could say about the best riding in British Columbia. Evans was a gentleman that the member opposite just I’m going to have to reserve those remarks for the next spoke about who I never met, but I know him intimately opportunity I can get to speak about Nelson-Creston. It now. He seems like a very nice fellow. Some day, when I is truly an amazing place that I hope all members of the do meet him, I’ll have to remind him of all the time that House will take the opportunity to frequent for some was spent talking about him here in this chamber. vacation time. We’ve had history lessons. We’ve had geography les- One of the things that we do very well in the Kootenays sons. We’ve had lessons on demographics. We know all is celebrate our region and provide a really wonderful op- about the service organizations in just about every com- portunity to relax, enjoy and have fun. We also have the munity in this province. Of course, they do incredible longest free ferry ride in the world, in part because of the work. I’m glad to be part of a community with a very work that Corky Evans did to make sure that we have the strong sense of duty when it comes to the service organ- Osprey ferry going back and forth between Balfour and izations that continually support all of the efforts that are Kootenay Landing on the East Shore of Kootenay Lake. so needed to every community. When people come to visit the beautiful, beautiful area [1520] of Nelson-Creston…. Stop in Creston, have a wonderful We need organizations like that regularly and volun- meal, get some cherries. Stop in Nelson, enjoy the res- teers in a community. They’re the heart and soul of every taurants, enjoy the beaches. And make sure that you get community, no less in mine. It’s very, very important on the Osprey ferry for the longest free ferry ride in the that we support their efforts, because communities are world. You will not regret it. much richer and more vibrant as a result of the efforts Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9853

put forward by our volunteers. We really could not sur- V. Huntington: I appreciate that Delta South and Delta vive without them. North are able to address this issue simultaneously, al- Hypothetically, if the population of British Columbia most, in the House. It’s a pleasure to follow the member was 100 people, let’s say — and this is the way it’s all go- for Delta North. ing to work out in terms of how we define the sizes of I’m pleased to speak to the resolution: “Be it resolved our jurisdictions and our constituencies — the province that…the proposals contained in the Final Report of would then be divided into ten electoral districts, and the Electoral Boundaries Commission tabled in the you’d wind up having ten people residing in each riding. Legislative Assembly on September 28, 2015 be approved.” It’s pretty simple. I hadn’t originally intended on speaking to this mo- The riding of Delta North, as the riding of Delta South, tion. I felt that because my riding had been fortunate has been pretty consistent over the years. We haven’t enough not to be changed, there wasn’t much I could changed very much. While I guess I’m glad that my add to the debate. However, two situations prompted boundaries haven’t changed with any significance — ac- a change of heart. One was meeting the House Leader tually they haven’t changed at all — as I mentioned before, for the official opposition in the hall and listening to his we do have some members in this House whose bound- wise words that advised me that this was an opportun- aries have changed quite significantly. ity to speak about my riding and about the meaning of I have an immense amount of appreciation for the the Electoral Boundaries Commission to the province of work that every member in this chamber who comes British Columbia. from a rural part of the province does — the amount of [1525] time they have to travel. I think the member for Peace Perhaps I’ll take this opportunity to say that my thanks River South mentioned to me that for him to drive from are very sincere for the time that the member for Port one end of his riding to the other takes him some eight Coquitlam has given me over the years in mentoring hours, from the longest point. That’s very, very signifi- me in this House. The Opposition House Leader is the individual with whom I have the most official contact. I cant. It’s very, very difficult to service a riding — one could not have proceeded as well as I have managed to MLA — that size. in the House without his very congenial and helpful ad- The importance of maintaining the ability to properly vice over the years. represent a geographical area — I’m glad the commis- As an independent, I don’t sit with a caucus. I don’t sion took this into consideration and, as a result, decid- have that natural support a caucus brings to its mem- ed to make sure that there were no changes to that type bers. That was recognized from the very first day by the of representation. member for Port Coquitlam, who has eased me into this Personally, a riding like mine I can transit from one job in the most admirable of fashions. I am indebted to end to the next, at its longest point, in about 12 minutes. him for that. There are some ridings that are even more densely popu- The second reason that I decided to speak was because lated, and you can walk from one end of the riding to the I had been listening to the members during the course of next in just about the same amount of time. this debate, and I began to realize just how well served we The important thing to remember, though, is that if we were as a House and as a province by the electoral bound- have roughly the same number of constituents in each aries commissioners. riding, they still have to be properly represented. Even Even though they were deliberating within a confined if a riding, geographically, is substantial and the number mandate, these commissioners seemed to have under- of constituents in that riding is less, I think it’s just as im- stood the importance of community and the importance portant that they be properly served. Whatever we can of listening to people from communities who were con- do to help with respect to resources in each constituency, cerned that their personalities might be changed — not I think, would be welcomed. their personal personalities but the personalities of their In addition, due to the population increases in the neighbourhoods, of their homes, of their communities, Lower Mainland, specifically, the commission is recom- of their towns and cities and villages — as a result of de- mending an increase from 85 seats in this House to 87. cisions made by outsiders. If my fellow members think it was crowded before, as I The commissioners listened diligently to these com- mentioned, we’re going to be bulging at the seams here ments and, I think, have done a great service to the prov- eventually. ince and to its people in the deliberations that they have I really don’t have much more to say about this. I’d just recommended to this House. They’ve done a wonderful as soon let other members speak. But again, pretty much job, and we owe them a debt of gratitude. everything that has to be said on this issue has been said. Not so much can we say the same thing, particularly I think we’ve canvassed it quite significantly in this House. in the case of my federal riding, of the Federal Electoral I look forward to listening to further debate, but for now, Boundaries Commission. Delta South has been treated I will conclude my comments. like a soccer ball over the years federally. Whether you call 9854 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

it gerrymandering or trying to fit populations into one an- It is, as so many people in this House have heard me other, I believe the decisions have been made without any say over and over again…. Delta is a Pacific migratory application of the comments made to the commissioners bird flyway. Without Delta, there would not be the fly- over the years, the federal commissioners, by commun- way. That is why I speak so often about it, because we are ity members or by their representatives, by the way. I was in danger of losing the habitat that supports millions and privileged enough to have written the comments from millions of birds and the habitat that supports the great one of the MPs when the Boundaries Commission was salmon migrations of the world. considering a change to the federal riding of Delta. The Fraser River delta is south Delta. Well, I should Since 1988, Delta has had so many different names say it’s south Delta and Richmond, but Sturgeon Bank is that we’re totally confused. We feel that everybody else not what I represent, although I would certainly love to. is totally confused about what we are. We know what we It gets very little time in this House. But Roberts Bank are, but we haven’t thought that the federal commission- wildlife management area and Boundary Bay wildlife ers of the day recognized what we were. management area are areas that I try and recognize in We have been called Fraser Valley West. We’ve been this House as often as I can, for without them, we lose Richmond–South Delta, Surrey–White Rock–North so much. We lose the greatest wildlife migrations in the Delta. In 1996, we became Delta South–Richmond. Then continent. Do we have a moral right to even contemplate it was Newton–North Delta. Then it was Delta. Then it that loss, let alone engage in it? The members will hear was Delta–Richmond East, and now once again, we’re me, over and over again, warn them that we are in dan- Delta, which is what we want to be. We’re Delta. North ger of losing that legacy. Delta and south Delta, from a municipal point of view, But in addition to the agricultural lands, Delta South from a federally constructed point of view as a riding, is also has the Tilbury industrial area. So between Annacis Delta, and that’s what we would like to stay. We have no Island and Tilbury industrial areas, we have the two lar- faith, however, given the history of our name changes, gest industrial areas in the Lower Mainland. Delta is in- that that will happen. deed unique in everything that it provides and becomes At least provincially, Delta South and Delta North are to the Lower Mainland. different, distinct and preserved. We have been since at The problem is, in south Delta — and to some extent, least 1991. It gives stability to the ridings, to the people, north Delta, but less so — we’re struggling with the de- and it gives comfort to the population to know that their mand to develop the agricultural land reserve. We’re communities are stable and are recognized as such prov- struggling with the demands that are enabled by a prov- incially and by the Boundaries Commission. ince that hasn’t put its foot down about development on How can we say it? It gives one pride to stand up. I’m the agricultural land reserve, indeed, which supports sure the member for North Delta feels the same. I cer- development in some regions of this province on that tainly do as the member for Delta South. It gives us pride land reserve — land which is so vital to the future of this to stand up and say that we represent those communities province, of our population and of the country in general. and that those communities make up one, the munici- In talking about Delta South, I can say that when you pality of Delta. include Burns Bog, when you include the Fraser River, Delta North and Delta South are divided almost equal- when you include the Fraser estuary, the agricultural ly by population. But far more than population, they’re lands, Boundary Bay wildlife management area, we are divided by personality and geography. talking about something that is absolutely vital to the [1530] health of this country. Delta North is basically a suburban, urbanized com- In Delta, next to the Boundary Bay wildlife manage- munity with a large industrial component of Annacis ment area and just south of the Boundary Bay Airport, Island. Delta South, however, has two smaller suburban is a raptor management reserve. Very few people know communities in Ladner and in Tsawwassen, both of that this raptor management reserve exists. Delta has the whom have distinct personalities themselves and who largest concentration of raptors in Canada, yet we are divide the bulk of the population in south Delta be- constantly playing and building upon the habitat that tween them. supports these raptors. With the South Fraser Perimeter Ladner and Tsawwassen are divided and surrounded Road and Tsawwassen Springs development alone, 30 by agricultural land, all of which is surrounded on three percent of the old field habitat in Delta disappeared — sides by water — the Fraser River, Boundary Bay and the two developments, 30 percent, one of them heavily sup- Georgia Strait. ported and built by the province. How can we continue It’s a very unique community, a community that we to allow that type of habitat destruction to continue? have huge pride in and that we love very dearly. It’s a If you want eagles in the Lower Mainland, you’ve got unique community, because it is also the environmental to protect the habitat in Delta South, and it’s that simple. heart of the Lower Mainland — indeed, I think, of the If you want to see a harrier, you’ve got to protect the habi- Fraser Valley. tat in Delta South, and you if want to go out right now Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9855

and see 100,000 snow geese on the farmland, you have House for the last few days and for several years now. to protect the habitat of Delta South. The transparency, accountability and integrity of gov- I will not rest until somebody in this House, on that ernment is at stake, and people need to have faith and side of the House, recognizes the fact that if they don’t confidence in their government in order to abide by com- step up to the plate and protect Delta South, there’s go- mon laws and to pay respect to the process that governs ing to be a disaster, an environmental disaster, that will our province. This is a very important issue that we all be on their shoulders. face, not just in this House but throughout the province [1535] — the disengagement of voters. Lastly, I’d like to just comment on the member for This process of examining boundaries is meant to do West Vancouver–Capilano’s comments on this motion. two things. It’s meant to, as much as possible, make every- We were chatting today in the rotunda, and I said to the one’s vote equal in this province so that whether you live member that I agreed with his position that this House in the north of the province or the south of the province, has to start looking at a different way of distributing the in an urban area or a rural area, your vote is roughly population, of representing the people of this province. equal to another British Columbian’s vote. We can’t continue ad infinitum to add members to this But that principle clashes with the principle of effective House. I don’t think the people would stand for us build- representation when, if we had the average constituency ing a new institution. They love this one. We love this one. by population applied to the vast areas of the north of this It is a glorious building, and we should be protecting it as province, these ridings would become impossible for any a right of everyone’s heritage in this province. member to represent effectively because of the travel and We’re filling it up now. It’s reaching its capacity, I be- the distances and the terrain involved. lieve, although I must say that the Opposition House So we have come to a compromise in this province Leader thinks we could go to benches and do well. Well, that accepts 25 percent above the average to 25 percent maybe that’s what we’ll end up doing if we continue add- below the average as being acceptable, with several ex- ing members. ceptions even to that. Those exceptions are in the north. However, I think we have to sit down in an atmosphere There are two seats that are more than 50 percent under of discussion and conversation, not debate. We need to sit the population average of seats in the province. There are down in a non-partisan manner. We need to talk about ten seats that are below the 25 percent level. how we can represent the people of this province with- [1540] out adding exponentially to the members of this institu- This has been a compromise that has attempted to tion as the years go by. balance the two principles: the one of making people’s I think we need to look at: do we do what the Americans votes equal and the other of making their representa- have done, for instance? Do we give larger budgets so that tion effective. we can hire more individuals and have more offices to We accept these differences, but then the application serve the population in a riding? Is that how we handle of boundary reconfiguration is something that histor- the increase in population? How do we do this? ically, here in Canada, here in B.C. and throughout the I can’t answer that. There are other ways in the world world, has been vulnerable to political manipulation, that they have discovered — new processes and new ways gerrymandering — the reconfiguration of boundaries of representation — but we need to do that. We need to to serve a particular partisan political interest. We’ve had think about it, and we need to do it in a non-partisan experience with that in B.C. in my lifetime and yours, manner, a conversation rather than a restricted debate. Mr. Speaker. So with that, I’ll sit down and just once again compli- This process has been developed, having three noted ment the Electoral Boundaries Commission on the very people — in this case, a judge, Mr. Justice Melnick; fine work it has done for the people of British Columbia. Beverley Busson, the former superintendent of the RCMP; and Keith Archer, the Chief Electoral Officer D. Routley: It gives me pleasure to stand up in support — strike a commission which examines, in an object- of the motion brought forward to support the Boundaries ive, non-partisan way, how to create boundaries that are Commission report that we have just received in this both equal in representation as much as possible and ef- House. fective in representation as much as possible. This is an I’d like to talk a little bit about the process itself and extraordinarily difficult task, and I commend them on then a little bit about the constituency that I represent the work that they’ve done. and have represented for some time now, having lived We had great concerns when the current government through a previous boundary reconfiguration. changed the terms of reference of that commission and I think the general feeling amongst people in our soci- allowed the protection of a greater number of seats. We ety is that there is a growing cynicism about representa- had some doubt as to whether the commission could do tion. There is a growing cynicism about the transparency that in a way that was justifiable and legitimate. But we of government, and that’s been a very hot topic in this happen to be very pleased and reassured that the commis- 9856 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

sion has come forward with boundaries that protect those Canada, the single largest employer in Canada — just the two principles, balance them and also resist any kind of health authorities in B.C. influence, in a partisan sense. We do offer our commen- So you can imagine that that being one aspect — al- dation to the commissioners and the work that they did. beit the biggest aspect — of provincial government busi- The process of the commission. The commission trav- ness, it is a reflection, an illustration, of exactly how big elled in its first phase to 29 communities. It heard from the task of governance is. 128 presenters, and it received 295 written submissions. The commission made its recommendations in terms There was a second phase after the preliminary report, of the shape of constituencies, the size of constituencies which travelled the province again, went to 15 commun- and the location of borders, but they also made a couple ities, heard from a further 144 presenters and received of recommendations. One was to allow Elections B.C. another 426 written submissions. These submissions to take over the administrative support for future com- have influenced the decisions of the commission. missions. I hope the government will hear that recom- I started out by saying that there’s a crisis of confidence mendation in the legislation it brings forward to support in government in our society now, a feeling that there this report. is a growing cynicism about the integrity, honesty and It has said that the Legislative Assembly should as- transparency of government. I think that this process sess whether increased discrepancy in representation by is a reassurance to British Columbians that the process population was sufficiently addressed in the May 2014 is true and honest. I really thank the commissioners for legislation, freezing the number of electoral districts in not only the report but for a contribution to reinforcing slower-growing regions. That requires further debate, but people’s faith in this institution and the representation it’s understood on this side of the House — and I’m as- that they receive. suming, from what I’ve heard, on the government side of There have been changes to 48 constituencies. There the House — that, in fact, that is a legitimate reflection have been a total of two new constituencies added to the of the balance between the principles of equal represen- Legislature under this report, if adopted — and it appears tation and effective representation. that it will be adopted. People will often feel that perhaps We have 17 protected seats in the province, and we it’s not worthwhile to invest in more representation, but had, in the past, only three. That was a major concern I feel that that’s a mistake. on the part of the opposition, but thankfully, the com- This addition of two seats is supportable and justified mission appears to have managed that requirement with by a population expansion in the province. Our lives are grace and integrity. so complex. The government’s business is so complex Having now spoken about the role of the commission compared to what it was historically. It’s a $46 billion and the functioning of the commission, I’d like to turn enterprise that affects every aspect of our lives. It is edu- my attention to the constituency that I represent. The cation, health care, transportation, environment — on name of that constituency, as you know, is Nanaimo– and on the list goes — an incredibly complex institution North Cowichan. I grew up in the Cowichan Valley, and that requires the ability to not only hear from constitu- I am very intimately aware of the relationships between ents but to adjust and reflect the wishes, views and needs the different communities on the Island, in the mid-Is- of constituents. land area that I grew up in and now represent. [1545] I attended high school in Chemainus, which is one of For such an enormous organization to have that kind the small communities I represent. I’ve played sports in of flexibility requires that people be able to send their all of these communities. Despite their close proximity voice to government, either through government mem- and their cordial relationships, there is a high degree of bers or through opposition members. I think it’s always competitive interest between these communities, and it’s a good investment to reinforce the capacity of people’s never to be underestimated. voices to be heard by government. So we support the When I was a school trustee, a school trustee who addition of two seats, and we look forward to working hadn’t grown up in the Cowichan Valley made an un- under this new map. fortunate remark about the tensions between the com- You know, the complexity of government is only munity of Lake Cowichan and the community of Duncan matched by the enormity of government. That’s not a bad when we were discussing the management of school in- thing. We have public health care. That’s one of the big- terests. Not having grown up in the Cowichan Valley, she gest pieces — in fact, the biggest piece — of government. observed that they were only 20 kilometres apart. How We have the great benefit of public health care, some- different can they be? thing that defines Canadians, something that we all find I think the Justice Minister, who also grew up in identity with and something that has become another Duncan and the Cowichan Valley, would readily agree enormous task of delivery on the part of all Canadian that there are very distinct differences between these governments. In B.C., the health authorities, if they were communities — high levels of competitiveness but high a private organization, would be the largest employers in levels of cooperation and interdependence as well, some- Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9857

thing that’s quite a lovely mix that has grown up organ- Part of the tension in developing a map by any Boun­ ically over time. daries Commission is the tension between urban and The Justice Minister’s father was a very significant per- rural representation. In B.C., we are so dependent son in the Cowichan Valley, in fact. I personally learned on resource industries, which largely come from the a great deal from her father around the historical role smallest communities. Although being the economic of the community of Duncan and the Cowichan Valley. breadbaskets of our province, often I think that rural [1550] communities feel under-represented — not in a sense of I’m relieved, in fact, that this time the constituency I the quotient of population to members in the House but represent has changed very little. The southern boundary in terms of the priorities of government, because of the at Herd Road and Lake Cowichan Highway has remained high concentration of people in urban settings. the same. The northern boundary has changed slightly, [1555] by a couple of blocks, further north, and a couple of dif- My own experience is similar in that Nanaimo–North ferent neighbourhoods have been removed. But these Cowichan, the constituency I represent, in a way, is a rep- amount to, really, tinkering at the edges. This is some- resentation of that tension. I represent the south third, thing that I’m relieved about, not simply for my own roughly, of the city of Nanaimo, the densely populated comfort but for the comfort of constituents. Harewood neighbourhoods and the South End commun- Last time, the last boundary reconfiguration, which ity. These are some of the most historic neighbourhoods occurred at the point of the 2009 election, the constitu- of Nanaimo. They are the traditional homes of miners ency I represented changed by 50 percent. The popu- and lumbermen, people who are dependent on the re- lation changed by 50 percent. People, effectively, had source industries of the island but who also live in a very moved north, 50 percent past its boundaries. So 50 per- urban setting. cent of the population was new, and 50 percent were the Then I also represent vast areas of wilderness, moun- people that I represented between 2005 and 2009. This is tainous terrain and agricultural communities, farming- a very significant change, of course, for me, but I’m fam- based communities. So just within the constituency of iliar with those communities and active. Nanaimo–North Cowichan, we see played out the ten- But for the constituents, it was a really jarring experi- sions between rural and urban divides and the different ence, and this is not to be underestimated. The constitu- interests that people have, the different challenges they encies that members represent that have experienced face in terms of acquiring government services, in terms large changes will find that there’s quite a significant im- of standard of living — challenges that are very different pact that comes from that change. from a rural setting to an urban setting. My history of it in Nanaimo–North Cowichan was that I’ve said that there are 54,000 people here. In fact, there the boundary, when it moved north, also newly encom- are 54,560 citizens proposed under the new boundary, passed the island of Gabriola, with a population of just and we, in our offices, generally have two staff people. about 5,000 people. Gabriola is a very unique and separ- If one out of 100 of those constituents has an issue or a ate, independent community. The residents of Gabriola problem or a need that must be addressed through the of- were, I think, really jarred by that change last time — just fice of the MLA, that’s 545 or 546 people in a year. These having to go to a different office in a different part of the problems are sometimes simple but more often very com- city, becoming familiar with a different representative, as plex and difficult, vexing problems to solve. I was re-elected, under these new boundaries. Our constituency assistants do amazing work in deal- I’m relieved, in fact, that the constituency I represent did ing with the load of that requirement, all that need. They not significantly change, because of that disruption and must have relationships built within ministries and with the impact that people felt last time. I have empathy for bureaucrats throughout government. They must be- the constituents of members who are experiencing greater come experts in everything, Mr. Speaker. You know this change. It is not an easy thing. It’s not easy for the members, well. Our constituency assistants have to deal with not as well, to become familiar with new community groups, only that enormous load of constituency work in repre- new local governments, new school districts. All of these senting people but also the amazing complexity of what things take time in the relationship-building that’s vital to they must know in order to do that. the representation that we provide to constituents. There was a cartoon circulated a few years ago that was The constituency I represent, Nanaimo–North titled “The constituency assistant begins their day.” This Cowichan, actually decreased very slightly in area, from person had a blindfold on and was throwing a dart at a 2,720 square kilometres to 2,709 kilometres, but has in- wall that had “education, health care, transportation, bus” creased in population by about 5,000 citizens. It was at — all the issues that they face. Then at the bottom it said: 49,402, and it is now at 54,560. It’s about 4 percent over “Today I’m an expert in….” the average, but it’s still a very manageable number. The This is absolutely the truth. These folks do amazing fact that the area hasn’t greatly changed makes that, again, work, and we have to thank them very deeply for being much easier. able to do that. I think it’s a job and a task that’s perhaps 9858 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

underappreciated because it doesn’t get a lot of attention, was a coal baron. It was, essentially, the eastern third of but when we talk about the budgets of offices and what it . All the resources, all the coal, all the takes in order for a member to represent their commun- forests, all the land of the eastern third of Vancouver ity, that’s where the resources go. It’s very well-spent pub- Island was granted to Dunsmuir in order to complete lic funds that go to these people to represent constituents. that railway. In Nanaimo–North Cowichan, we have an enormous Communities sprung up along the railway that were diversity, as I’ve already indicated, in terms just of small home to workers. This deeply affected the history of communities that I represent. The community of Crofton Vancouver Island, particularly mid–Vancouver Island — is home to the Catalyst pulp mill. There are long-time Ladysmith, South Wellington, communities that I rep- community families there who were friends of mine as resent proudly. a child, who go back many generations to the founding Dunsmuir was not known as a particularly friendly of the community — some still living in the houses that person to organized workers, organized labour. There was they’ve lived in for several generations. It’s a beautiful a very notable strike in the Ladysmith, South Wellington, seaside community with a ferry terminal that connects Nanaimo area. For many months, coal-mine workers Crofton to Saltspring Island. were on strike, and the companies brought in armed re- I represent the community of Chemainus. Chemainus inforcements to control and force the workers. is a lovely little town that has always been very forest-in- There was a very famous moment when the women and dustry-dependent. It has had several mills come and go children of Ladysmith stood in between the Pinkerton over the years. One of the major mills was closed when armed guards that were sent to control the strikers. And I was a teenager, actually, and it was a huge blow to the the strikers themselves — a very brave, historical mo- community. Since then, more milling activity has come ment. on stream, but in recent years that has been challenged Ladysmith has gone on to become a forestry-depend- by a lack of availability of fibre for those mills as raw log ent community that had several mills, some of which exports increase. have closed. Employment is much reduced in the for- [1600] est industry. It, too, has turned to tourism. A famous Ladysmith light-up celebration, where the entire com- [R. Lee in the chair.] munity is lit up with Christmas lights and decorations in the holiday season, has become a huge attraction up Chemainus is known as the little town that did. That and down the Island and further on. Thousands of people is because when Chemainus first suffered the blow of the now visit Ladysmith to enjoy the tourist opportunities. closure of their main mill, they rallied together and, be- South Wellington is a similar community but even hind the leadership of several citizens, had murals paint- smaller, with a long history in that coal-dependent econ- ed throughout the town depicting its history — the social, omy, with families still living there that go back to these economic and environmental history of Chemainus. original inhabitants, still living in the same homes. This became a globally recognized attraction. Suddenly [1605] Chemainus was able to provide employment and small The south end of Nanaimo and the Harewood neigh- business opportunity through attraction as a tourist des- bourhood of Nanaimo — some of the most challenged tination, something that had never been a part of its past. I postal codes in British Columbia, in terms of income think it’s an example of the resiliency and determination of and poverty, yet some of the most beautiful places you the people of the communities that I’m proud to represent. can imagine with engaged citizens, engaged community The town of Ladysmith. They say you’re never over organizations. the hill in Ladysmith because it’s built on hills like the I have the island of Gabriola, as I mentioned, but hills of San Francisco. It’s a beautiful little town that was Thetis also and the First Nations on Penelakut Island. In founded primarily as the home of workers in the coal- terms of First Nations, Nanaimo–North Cowichan has mining industry. five First Nations: Lyackson on Valdes Island; Halalt, One of my interests is railway history. The history of which is both in the Chemainus-Crofton area and on the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway, currently owned Kuper Island, or Penelakut Island; the Penelakut, who are by the Island Corridor Foundation, owned by the com- actually on the island; the Chemainus; the Snuneymuxw munities of the Island, is a history that was established in Nanaimo; and even overlapping territories with the when B.C. entered Confederation. There was an agree- Cowichan. ment that a transcontinental railway would have its ter- First Nations populations are very important in my minus point in Victoria, so that there would be a railway constituency. They’re interrelated. They’re families. Their from Nanaimo to Victoria, as one of the conditions of ceremonies are shared. It’s a vibrant and lovely compon- B.C. entering Confederation. ent of the constituency. In order to deliver on that promise, the governor of There are two school districts. There are five local -gov British Columbia granted land to Robert Dunsmuir, who ernments: city of Nanaimo, regional district of Nanaimo, Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9859

town of Ladysmith, Cowichan Valley regional district the commission in terms of insisting that certain regions and municipality of North Cowichan. There are six ferry maintain the current number of seats while limiting the terminals. number of seats that could be added to this Legislature All of this points to the complexity and challenge of to two. representation. All these separate communities. All these Others will comment on this. Some may even feel different ethnic backgrounds. All these different chal- compelled to question the constitutionality of this, but lenges of representation and relationships to be built with the commission took on the task and heard from a lot of so many different local governments. All these different people and did the best they could in the circumstance. tensions between newcomers and the rights and privil- I think what they have produced is, by and large, a very eges of First Nations. I am extraordinarily proud to rep- fair result, a very fair set of recommendations, one that I resent these communities. certainly intend to support. As my colleague has pointed out, there were two G. Heyman: It’s my pleasure and my honour to stand rounds of hearings. The first one had 128 presenters, up and talk to the commission’s report and to recog- 295 written submissions. The commission went back nize some of the difficult work the commission has to consider the input and had a second round of hear- done and the thoughtfulness and effort that was put into ings, visiting 15 communities with 144 presentations presentations to the commission by people all around and 426 written submissions. It is important. I think we the province, including in my own constituency of all recognize that people will come to these hearings or Vancouver-Fairview, in preparing for this. make written submissions to these hearings, some with It has been fascinating to look at some of the histories of very legitimate points of view to put forward and others, the whole nature of how boundaries are defined and com- perhaps, with an axe to grind or a very personal or self- missions are given mandates; of past commissions; of the interested or even politically interested point of view to boundaries of different constituencies that once existed put forward. The job of an independent commission, of in the past and now comprise current-day Vancouver- course, is to sift through all of that and make recommen- Fairview as well as some others; and, interestingly enough, dations that are fair, that support democracy, that meet of some of the very interesting controversies that we’ve the test of time. seen around electoral commissions and boundary redis- It’s interesting to note. My colleague from Vancouver- tribution in this province in the past. Some have come Kingsway and I were having a discussion as we were lis- very close to home in Vancouver-Fairview. tening to some of the other speeches. We were just talking First of all, let me extend my thanks to Justice Melnick, generally about the nature of independent commissions, to former commissioner of the RCMP Ms. Busson and their history in British Columbia, as well as the history to the Chief Electoral Officer, Keith Archer, for taking of commissions that were perhaps less than independ- on this difficult but very, very important task that’s so ent in the past. I think we’ll all be aware of this, to some fundamental to democracy. Nothing can be more funda- extent, from the very, very controversial presidential mental to democracy than the nature of representation election that took place a number of years ago in the of people throughout this province — both people con- United States — 16, if my memory serves me correctly, centrated in dense urban areas as well as people who find or 15. Only seven states in the United States of America themselves in far-flung communities across vast expanses have what could fairly be termed independent electoral of territory in northern B.C., the Interior, the northeast boundary commissions. and the southeast. This is astounding, and I thank my colleague from First of all, having been born in Vancouver-Fairview Vancouver-Kingsway for pointing out to me this rather and grown up in Vancouver but having spent a signifi- incredible fact. It’s something that we should be aware cant part of my working life in northwest B.C. and vari- of, and it should instil in us a determination to maintain ous communities on the coast, I have some sense of the independence, integrity in our commissions in British differences that are entailed in both living in and being Columbia and all Canadian provinces to assure ourselves represented by elected representatives in these areas. that we will not run into the kinds of hotly and viciously It’s a difficult balance. The principle of representation and partisan-contested elections, where state legislatures by population can be a difficult one to maintain. That’s in the United States protected the interests of their own why we have the principle of an allowable deviation of 25 party instead of the interests of the electorate at large. percent as well as a recognition that there will be some If we go far back in British Columbia history, back to exceptions for circumstances that don’t neatly fit within 1871, we know, and I think we will all admit…. I’ll read these criteria. some history written by Norman Ruff inB.C. Studies back [1610] in 1990 that demonstrates that initially, of course, com- Having said that, this has been a difficult chore for missions that were set up to establish electoral bound- this commission, I think. The government, in the man- aries were far from independent, were far from free from date given to the commission, placed some restraints on intervention in British Columbia. In fact, the first elec- 9860 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

toral districts going back, I think, as far as 1871, started Judge Eckardt was asked to submit an interim report on the as electoral districts that were created out of mining dis- electoral districts before 30 June, 1978. “After 44 public hearings, the interim report dated 17 June tricts. There’s not a lot of logic that we can see to that. was submitted to the Lieutenant-Governor and tabled in the What might be termed one of the first independent re- Legislature on 20 June. The following day, Bill 18 was introduced ports was created in 1966, but, having said that, we do to implement the report’s recommendations. Debate on second have a history since 1966 of reports that were meddled reading began on the 26th, third reading was given on the 28th, and on 29 June the bill received royal assent. The Eckardt bound- with, that governments of the day…. The Socred govern- aries defined the electoral map for the 10 May, 1979 provincial ment stuck their fingers in and arranged things in ways general election and the two subsequent elections to date.” that would suit them. Those of us who were around at the time and perhaps Before I go into some more of the history of Vancouver- even worked on those election campaigns will remember Fairview and some of the electoral results — as well as those elections campaigns as hard fought, outcomes not why I think it’s so important for the voters in Vancouver- at all certain and one in which parties had a very signifi- Fairview that we are seeing the result we are seeing in this cant interest in how the boundaries affected the outcome. report today and that today it is suitable that we are main- I’m again reading from Mr. Ruff’s article. taining the boundaries we have in Vancouver-Fairview — “The Eckardt commission was, from the outset, one of the most let me simply read from a paper by Norman Ruff in B.C. controversial redistributions in the history of the province. Judge Studies, autumn 1990, called “The Cat and Mouse Politics Eckardt’s former unsuccessful bid for a seat as a Social Credit candidate immediately served to undermine the perception of of Redistribution: Fair and Effective Representation in his independence as a one-man commission.” British Columbia.” One could certainly understand why that point of view [1615] might have been shared by many onlookers at the time. Mr. Ruff talks — it’s a long paper; I’m not going I’m sorry, that last sentence was not a quote. That was to read the whole thing, obviously — about “Ad Hoc my editorial comment. I’ll get back to reading from the Redistribution” from 1938 to 1979, and he says: article. “There had been some vestige of openness introduced to British “His recommendations increased the Legislature by two Columbia’s redistribution process in 1938, when the redefinition members, and in the reallocation of seats reduced representa- of electoral boundaries was, for the first time, referred to a special tion in metropolitan Vancouver and the Kootenay region by committee of the Legislative Assembly. The special 11-mem- one, increased Vancouver Island and the northern region by ber committee of the Legislature on ‘Redefining of Provincial one and added two members to the Fraser Valley. Two existing Constituencies’ issued a report one month after its appointment, seats — Revelstoke-Slocan and Vancouver-Burrard — were abol- and the matter was tabled for the next session.” ished. It was noticed that both were held by the New Democratic Then Premier W.A.C. Bennett initiated a similar com- opposition. mittee to make recommendations as to “the desirability “The shape of some of the ridings and, in particular, the lack of increasing the number of members to be elected to the of compactness in the riding of Vancouver–Little Mountain also attracted controversy.” Legislature and as to the redistribution of the members Vancouver–Little Mountain, as I’ve mentioned, is not amongst the electoral districts of the province.” completely significantly analogous to the current bound- If we go a little further, because certainly much hap- aries of Vancouver-Fairview, with some obvious excep- pened, into Mr. Ruff’s paper…. I’m going to skip forward tions. But there’s a lot in common. to the end of the first term of the Bill Bennett govern- [1620] ment and what was termed, at the time, the Eckardt Back to the article. controversy. “Two years later, this was further fuelled by a reported contact I’ve chosen this. There are many controversies. There between the commissioner and the Provincial Secretary, who is much to look back on in the history of electoral re- represented that particular riding.” distribution in British Columbia that has been contro- The Provincial Secretary of the time, Grace McCarthy, versial, but this one in particular touched on the riding of course, will be remembered by many in this Legislature of Vancouver–Little Mountain, which, of course, is not — certainly remembered by the Finance Minister, who exactly the same as Vancouver-Fairview, but certainly achieved his seat for the first time in this Legislature by de- encompasses much of Vancouver-Fairview’s territory. feating her in her attempt to revive the Social Credit Party’s The Eckardt controversy started at the end of…. I’ll fortunes in British Columbia. That by-election probably simply read from Mr. Ruff’s paper at this point. gave life to the B.C. Liberal Party in very many ways. “At the end of its first term, the new Social Credit government To repeat: of Bill Bennett addressed the question of redistribution for itself “Two years later this was further fuelled by a reported contact by appointing a one-man commission, former county court between the commissioner and the Provincial Secretary, who judge L.S. Eckardt, to secure a redefinition of electoral districts represented that particular riding. It was alleged that this ac- and review a wide range of subjects, including methods of voting, counted for a last-minute appendage to the riding of an area eligibility of voters, party expenditures and financing covered by which lent itself to the label of Gracie’s finger. A subsequent the Provincial Elections Act. investigation by the Attorney General’s ministry, tabled 6 “The redistribution set in train by the Eckardt commission August, 1980, found no evidence of wrongdoing, but the affair proceeded with remarkable dispatch. The commissioner was ap- had already played its part in the undermining of a sense of the pointed on 12 January, 1978, and, at the request of the Premier, commission’s legitimacy.” Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9861

Now, it may not be immediately apparent to every- people have had while considering both this report and body in this chamber today why that particular electoral the mandate that was given to the commission itself — map would have been controversial or why the existence the issue of the number of legislators in this House. of Gracie’s finger would be controversial, but for people We all understand that the people of British Columbia like myself who are familiar with that territory, Gracie’s don’t believe we should have an unlimited number of finger is a little extension, narrow but long, that deviates elected officials. I believe we work hard in this House, and westward from the western boundary of what was then I think most of our constituents believe we work hard, Vancouver–Little Mountain and reaches deep into the particularly if they have call to come into direct contact neighbourhood of Shaughnessy. While I’m proud of the with us. But it’s also important to note that we are well fact that I personally won three polls in Shaughnessy, it’s compensated for that work now — perhaps that was not not generally considered fertile New Democratic Party always true, but it is true now — so people simply don’t territory. want a limitless expansion. That finger was retained for quite some period of time I have heard people say that we can’t fit any more and went a long way to assisting Ms. McCarthy in vari- MLAs in this chamber. It certainly is crowded at times. ous re-election attempts. In short, that area was heavily But let me simply say that as the population of the prov- Social Credit, and the electoral redistribution of the time ince of British Columbia grows, and grows substantial- lent itself very strongly to supporting re-elections of both ly, in the decades to come…. I represent a constituency Ms. McCarthy and Social Credit governments. in metropolitan Vancouver. The population of Metro That’s why it’s important to have independent elector- Vancouver is expected to grow by over one million people al commissions, electoral commissions that have more over the next two-plus decades. than one person, electoral commissions with mandates It is a concern. It’s a concern that we ensure that there and terms of reference that are not limiting in nature, is representation by population, that that principle is that don’t lend themselves to interpretation of being ma- maintained and that we don’t at the same time make it nipulative or undemocratic. That’s why it’s important that almost impossible for people in remote constituencies the people who are on the commission itself are seen to that may have very small numbers of constituents but be and believed to be independent by all of the electors vast distances and significantly different issues — people and all of the people in the province, who know that the living in communities within those constituencies — to result of the election is often determined by the bound- be represented. Those people deserve representation. aries within which the elections are held. Therefore, the They deserve representatives with the ability to meet with result of redistribution in any particular constituency is them, to talk with them, to understand their issues and to of concern to everybody in the province. come back to this Legislature and make the case. While some constituencies may lean heavily over a While we certainly don’t want to be irresponsible or protracted period of time to one party — although we all whimsical in adding seats to this place, there will be times know this changes over time — and another one may lean — just as with this report, we’re adding two seats — where toward a different party, and that may simply be the way this will have to be considered. it goes, there needs to be some constituency, some logical In addition, at least one party in this Legislature has community of interest, some sense of history. The people talked extensively about changing the voting system to a who reside within those constituencies have to have some system that does away with first-past-the-post. There are confidence that the end result of the election is a will of many varieties of that. But if we were to bring in some a representative majority of the people within that con- form of proportional representation, it is difficult to see stituency and not a gerrymandered majority, a major- doing that — it’s not impossible to do that — without in- ity that has been created by adding pieces or removing creasing the number of seats. pieces that have a tendency to predetermine the outcome. There are a number of options, as I’ve said. But as we Let me talk a little bit about the history of elections in have a combination of different forms of representation, Vancouver–Little Mountain. Part of the history of the elec- potentially, or a rapidly expanding population, where tions and the evolution of Vancouver’s electoral districts we have to ensure that we don’t under-represent people is also inexorably tied up with the existence that many in urban areas and also not disenfranchise people in the people no longer remember — but I certainly do, and northeast, the northwest, the central Interior and the many people in this chamber will — of two-member con- southeast…. We should be aware that where necessity stituencies, which, thankfully, have now, for quite a num- exists, invention has always been found to meet that ne- ber of years, been abolished but, many people would argue, cessity, and I’m sure that will again. are less than democratic and created electoral problems Let me talk a little bit about some of the history of for people who lived within them and voted within them. Vancouver–Little Mountain. Back in 1966, Vancouver– [1625] Little Mountain had a total of 50,000 valid votes cast, but Before I go on to this, before I forget to do so, let me it’s worth pointing out that every elector, because it was a simply comment on the difficult balance that many two-member riding, had two votes. At that point, Leslie 9862 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

Peterson and Grace McCarthy — I’ve already spoken Interjection. about Grace McCarthy — were elected. They were elect- ed with just under 25 percent and just over 23 percent of G. Heyman: Gerrymandering, instead of Gerry Scott, the vote respectively. as my colleague points out. Following 1966, in 1969, we saw the number of votes In 1986, again Ms. McCarthy and Mr. Mowat were go up by 6,000, or 12 percent. Again, the only significant elected, but I note that in that year — and that was, I difference in that election was Ms. McCarthy closed the believe, the last year of a double-member riding — the gap with Mr. Peterson and got almost the same percent- defeated candidate was one Colin Kelly, who had a signifi- age of the vote, or roughly around 25 percent. cant career as a trade union leader in British Columbia. In 1972, of course, this province elected its first New He was a person I’d met, a person of great integrity. Democratic Party government, under Dave Barrett. I had the pleasure a couple of years ago of being intro- duced to his son, who now works for an organization that Interjection. I once led, the B.C. Government and Service Employees Union. Simon Kelly is a bright, young researcher who G. Heyman: Yes, my colleague from Vancouver- has made presentations to the Standing Committee Kingsway says, “Hear, hear,” and I agree. I voted in that on Finance and Government Services, along with the election. I was proud to vote in that election. president of his union, now twice. [1630] When we went back to one seat in 1991, a New Phyllis Young and Roy Thomas Cummings were elect- Democratic Party candidate, , was elected in ed for the New Democratic Party in Vancouver–Little Vancouver–Little Mountain. We move on to 1996, and Mountain, and there were an additional 3,000 votes cast someone who was to be a future Minister of Finance in in that election. British Columbia, Gary Farrell-Collins, was elected. The total number of votes at that time was almost 24,000. Interjection. Again, we were with a single-person riding. Following that, Vancouver-Fairview was created. The G. Heyman: My colleague from Vancouver-Kingsway boundaries have changed since its creation. Vancouver- correctly points out that Phyllis Young was one of the best Fairview used to extend all the way to False Creek. That cabinet ministers in B.C. history. area north of Great Northern Way, 4th and 2nd Avenue, In 1975, Grace McCarthy was elected again, this time has now been removed from Vancouver-Fairview, for the with Evan Wolfe, still in a two-member riding. The per- last two elections. But I will note that the current bound- centage of the vote went up a little bit, to slightly over 26 ary proposal reflects those boundaries. percent. The number of voters stayed about the same. In That brings me back around to my first point. One of 1979, Ms. McCarthy and Mr. Wolfe were elected again. the interesting features of knocking on doors as a candi- The number of voters went up by 13,000 — substantially. date in any riding, but certainly in Vancouver-Fairview, is I’m not sure why we have these variances. finding out what people are really thinking about. When It’s interesting to note that this was the first time a I first was knocking on doors and asking people to vote well-known New Democrat ran for provincial office at for me, they would say: “What? Is our MP Don Davies that time. Although he was unsuccessful in that elec- not running again. We love Don Davies.” I would explain tion, he went on to become Premier of British Columbia. to them carefully that they still got to have Don but they I’m speaking, of course, of Michael Harcourt, who ran could have me provincially, because Don was their fed- at the time with Jean Swanson, who was a very, very eral representative. well-known and well-respected community activist in [1635] Vancouver and has been for decades. I heard since the election, as well, that people were In 1983 — again, regretfully, from my perspective and very fond of Don. But of course, there’s a new riding that of my colleagues — the New Democratic Party lost federally, Vancouver Granville. All but two blocks of that seat. I’ve already pointed out the existence of Gracie’s Vancouver-Fairview fits within Vancouver-Granville now. finger being introduced in that election. It was a close The people who were used to, in a significant portion of election. Grace McCarthy and Doug Mowat won, again Vancouver-Fairview, having Don Davies as the repre- with just over and just under 25 percent of the vote at sentative…. As I said, they have tremendous respect for that time but followed closely by the New Democratic Don, as do I. They loved having him as a representative. Party candidates. They don’t have him anymore. They’re now lumped in I will simply say again that when you take a boundary with different groups of people from different commun- that runs straight along one of the north-south arteries ities with different communities of interest. They weren’t of Vancouver and all of a sudden you get a little jog that happy about it. goes conveniently into one of the wealthiest neighbour- I want to thank the people who presented to the hoods of Vancouver, the result is predictable. Boundaries Commission from Vancouver-Fairview who Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9863

urged the commission to maintain the existing bound- Thompson and Columbia-Kootenay regions to ensure aries, who told the commission that there had been re- citizens in less densely populated yet geographically large peated disruption as boundaries had changed. People districts can be effectively represented by their MLAs. understand boundaries have to sometimes change, but The bottom line is that we need fair and effective rep- people had gotten used to the configuration. They think resentation for all British Columbians. In a province with there is a reasonable community of interest. B.C.’s geography, equal representation by population sim- Vancouver-Fairview is tremendous. There are great ply isn’t possible. The Electoral Boundaries Commission’s communities along Main Street, along South Granville, task was to balance democratic representation with geog- along Cambie village, along Oak Street, along 16th, along raphy, which is not an easy task in a province as large as Broadway. I spent much of last Saturday visiting small British Columbia. businesses in these areas as part of Small Business Week. My understanding is that the true definition of “riding” People are used to the community of interest. They’re came back from the British parliamentary system, where used to voting together. They pretty clearly didn’t want a it took into consideration how far one could actually trav- change of boundary. el on a day on horseback. So even back in the early days I want to thank the Boundaries Commission for al- of parliamentary systems, it took into consideration the lowing the people of Vancouver-Fairview to experience ability of a representative to effectively represent the con- some consistency, boundaries that make sense, bound- stituents within their riding. aries that maintain communities of interest, notwith- The commission has also done a very admirable job. standing the fact that there are within Vancouver-Fairview I’d like to thank the commission and members for their several distinct communities. Those communities have diligence and hard work and all British Columbians who been maintained. The overall representation has been participated in this process. maintained. [1640] It’s been my pleasure for the last two-plus years to rep- I am proud to speak for these interests of rural British resent constituents in Vancouver-Fairview. With their Columbians. I urge all members, especially those on the support, as I intend to ask them for, I will have the op- other side of the House who represent rural ridings, to portunity to continue doing so. It’s a great constituency support this bill. — notwithstanding my colleague from Nelson-Creston — one of the greatest in British Columbia. People like Introductions by Members the boundaries and the shape of it, and I look forward to them being maintained. With that, I will take my place. A. Dix: I wanted to acknowledge the presence in the Legislature over the past week of someone who is a very G. Kyllo: On behalf of the constituents of Shuswap, I’m dedicated person in my church, Wilson Heights United proud to support this very important motion. It’s import- Church. She’s a teacher. Her name is Jackie Moon. She’s ant because it’s essential that every British Columbian is here, and she took part in the B.C. teachers institute that represented fairly and effectively. It’s important to me finished last Saturday. I think she found it an extraordin- and the people of the Shuswap that Bill 42 ensures rural ary experience. I wanted to acknowledge that she’d been British Columbians will not lose representation. in the House and to ask the House to make her welcome. By geographic area, Shuswap is not one of the larger ridings in B.C., nor is it one of the smallest. It’s some- Debate Continued where right in the middle. But it is, by and large, a rural riding with close to half of the riding’s population living J. Darcy: I really very much appreciate the oppor- in and around the city of Salmon Arm. tunity to rise and speak on the Electoral Boundaries Needless to say, the lifestyle and peace in life in the Commission’s final report on regulations, recommenda- Shuswap is far different than big-city life. We have far- tions, with the bill that is before us. The bill, as we have flung communities and First Nations and abundant nat- discussed…. There have been many speakers before me ural resources that are the core of B.C.’s economy. I heard who have spoken to this bill. There are a number of minor my colleague from Cariboo-Chilcotin say that it is an changes, and then there are a few major changes. eight-hour drive to cover her riding from east to west. I have to say that, overall, I don’t think there’s any From the north to the south of my riding, it’s about a 5½- question that the Electoral Boundaries Commission did hour drive. The distances are even greater in ridings such an excellent report. They had a very, very tough job in as Stikine and Peace River North. front of them, as we all know, very difficult with popula- I often hear from my constituents that rural interests tion growth, with balancing the needs of rural and urban are not fully understood in places like Vancouver and communities and looking at where growth is in our prov- Victoria. This certainly needs to be taken into considera- ince and so on — a very, very challenging job. Certainly tion when electoral boundaries are being discussed. This they did, I believe, the very best that they could under act preserves current ridings in the North, Cariboo- the circumstances. 9864 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

But I would be remiss if I did not focus my attention the history of our city and our constituency that really on the changes that are going to occur to the constituency makes this a difficult thing, I have so say. that I’m so proud to represent, New Westminster. One of We were incorporated back in 1860. It’s been some the areas where there is the most substantial change as a time, quite a few years, since we celebrated even our result of the Electoral Boundaries Commission’s report 100th anniversary. New Westminster is actually western and recommendations is to my community. Canada’s oldest city, the first city that was incorporated New Westminster is going to lose Queensborough, west of Ontario. For many, many years, New Westminster which has been a central part of our community since was the mercantile centre and the transportation hub for the city was first created. So it is with considerable the Lower Mainland during and after the Fraser River heartbreak, I have to say, and concern and regret…. I and the Cariboo gold rushes. say it not just on my own behalf, because I have been Now, we were never able to displace entirely Victoria’s so proud to represent the wonderful folks who live in overall dominance due to the access of Victoria on Queensborough, but also I know that they are very, very Vancouver Island to ocean shipping, and when the re- concerned and very disturbed about this, because they cently united colonies of British Columbia and Vancouver are an integral part of New Westminster, and they have Island came together in 1868, the Legislative Council been since the very creation of the city. We have always chose Victoria as the permanent capital of the recently been a constituency of New Westminster. united colonies of British Columbia and Vancouver Island. In fact, there was a time when the constituency of New We were not the capital of British Columbia for very Westminster extended into most of the Fraser Valley. long, but it is certainly something that remains very We’re not suggesting that, of course, again. That would much alive in the minds of my constituents. There is mean that we would be so, so far in excess of the num- many a day when people say: “Judy, couldn’t you just go bers. But indeed, that was the case. to the…? Couldn’t we talk about bringing the capital back One of the real beauties of representing the constitu- to New Westminster?” After all, we remain very, very ency of New Westminster in this House is that it is a centrally located. We know that that’s not in the cards, city, it is a community, it is one city council, and it is but it does remain a hope, certainly, amongst many of one school district. Our social agencies, our businesses, my constituents. our chambers of commerce, our business improvement associations, our trade unions, our faith organizations Hon. S. Anton: The Royal City. all work together and work as one, in one city and one community, to do the very best that we can for our con- J. Darcy: The Royal City. I was going to come to that. stituents. Yes. The Attorney General says “the Royal City.” Indeed, Really, the circles all come together. People who vis- we are the Royal City, a name that New Westminster it New Westminster, people who have moved to New continues to bear very proudly, and I will return to that. Westminster from elsewhere, when they get to be part Our city, as a transportation hub and a merchant cen- of this and see that the city really is indeed a commun- tre, secured a CPR branch line back in 1886; the comple- ity in the truest sense of the word, are very, very struck tion of the main line to Vancouver was in 1887. But we by that. We will, of course, continue as a city to work continued to be a freshwater port, a major lumber pro- together in that way. ducer, a salmon-canning centre, a commercial centre for But we will be losing Queensborough because we have the Fraser Valley, administrative and service headquar- a population now that is approximately 67,000 people, ters for the county court, the B.C. Penitentiary, the prov- and we’re not allowed to have 67,000 people under the incial mental hospital and the Royal Columbian Hospital. new rules. We are considerably in excess of what the The court is still there. The Royal Columbian Hospital guidelines are for the size of a constituency, and there- certainly is. Many of the others no longer are. fore, we will be losing Queensborough. We secured rail links to the United States via the Great [1645] Northern Railway, the Fraser River Railroad Bridge, the New Westminster is interesting. I mentioned 67,000 eastern Fraser Valley through the B.C. Electric Railway, residents. A small city, but a densely populated city be- and eastern Canada through the Canadian National cause those 67,000 people are spread out over only six Railway. square miles. Six square miles is the size of our constitu- Now, of course, New Westminster has changed con- ency. It’ll be even smaller now. We don’t grow out because siderably over those years, and what is at the economic we have no room to grow out. We grow up, so there’s a heart of the city has changed considerably. Our coat of lot of condo development and so on, as is the case all arms, from the very creation…. I know I can’t hold this throughout the Lower Mainland. up or treat it as a prop, but in November 1860 the city I say it with regret that we’re losing Queensborough. I of New Westminster was first incorporated and the ori- want to share with you and with people in my commun- ginal design was presented to our municipal council by ity that I know are paying close attention to this some of Colonel Moody. We have a famous park and various Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9865

other landmarks named after Colonel Moody. Many of We have a growing Chinese community again — the elements of that coat of arms remain until this day, many of whom have come from other countries to make even though the industry and the economy, of course, New Westminster and the Lower Mainland their home. have changed drastically. Fortunately, they now come to a community that is wel- [1650] coming and that is inclusive. We still, interestingly, have a bear sitting atop our coat We were once a real shipping hub. We still continue to of arms. I don’t know when the last time was we’ve seen be a significant shipping hub. When you look out, even a bear in New Westminster, because it is very highly ur- from my condo window, and look down on the Pattullo banized. No, it was not a polar bear, but it was a bear, in- Bridge and on the Fraser River…. I’m lucky enough to deed. Our coat of arms, to this day, still contains a sailing be able to see the Port Mann Bridge far to the east and ship, in recognition of the shipping industry. It contains to be able to see over to Vancouver Island in the west. I farm implements, in recognition of agriculture. It has a can’t quite see the Legislature, but I can see the moun- tree as a representation of forestry. It has pictures of sal- tains on the Island. mon, representing fishing. On our waterfront, I can also look out and I can see, on I’ve just actually checked my notes. It’s a grizzly bear, the Fraser River, the Fraser River Port Authority, which not a polar bear. That remains the emblem, the coat of still remains a very, very significant shipping hub for our arms of the city, to this day. province. Poplar Island was once the site of World War The name of the city of New Westminster was chosen I shipbuilding — large wooden ships for the war effort. by Queen Victoria, back in 1859, after her favourite part There are still some ship launching ways that are still vis- of London, England — that being Westminster. The site ible on the island’s upriver end. Adjacent to one of our of New Westminster was chosen in 1859, partly for mil- SkyTrain stations is our former CPR station which has itary reasons, as it was on a very steep hill. I can attest to now been…. Well, it was converted into a restaurant. that, having knocked on doors for a couple of years be- Now we’re waiting to see what its future home will be. fore being elected to come to this place. We are a city of The courthouse remains there. very, very steep hills on the north side of a very wide river. [1655] Therefore, it was more easily defended. The Pattullo Bridge, of course, is quite infamous. It was As I mentioned already, it was the first city in western quite a landmark, and it remains a very important trans- Canada, the first one west of the Lakehead — that is, the portation link. But I think most British Columbians, cer- Great Lakes in Ontario. Then in 1860, it became the first tainly in the Lower Mainland, now recognize the Pattullo city in western Canada to have a locally elected municipal Bridge more from it being heard of and spoken of every government. The Royal Westminster Regiment traces its single morning on the traffic report and at the end of the roots way back to the Columbia detachment of the Royal day on the traffic report. Certainly, that continues to be Engineers, who founded the city. We still have a maritime a big, big focus in my community — the need for an im- museum there, although the steam-powered sternwheel- proved regional transportation network that includes a er that worked the Fraser River, the fifth Samson in her refurbishing of the Pattullo Bridge as well as number of line, retired in 1980. other changes. There was once a very large Chinatown in New New Westminster was not the original name of the Westminster that for many years was centred near city. In fact, Colonel Moody, who was the founder, de- Carnarvon Street, on 10th Street, in New Westminster. cided that the new capital, which was to be sited at the While I’m on that subject, I do want to make note of confluence of the Fraser River and the Brunette River…. the fact that the city of New Westminster, while for many He felt the town should be named Queensborough — in- decades the initiator of many of the racist and prejudi- terestingly, because it’s Queensborough that is the piece cial laws that existed in this province and directed at of New Westminster that we will be losing in this redis- Chinese Canadians…. The material that can be found in tribution. But Queen Victoria made the decision, not the Legislative Library on that store certainly documents Colonel Moody. She decided she didn’t like that name, that on many occasions, the city of New Westminster had and she chose New Westminster, the new Royal City, as sought for the provincial government and the federal the name for the new city. government to enact laws that very clearly discriminat- During the Cariboo gold rush, New Westminster was a ed against Chinese Canadians in New Westminster and major outfitting point — I think I mentioned that already more broadly. — for prospectors who were travelling to the goldfield It was also our city, many, many years later, that was ports of Yale and Port Douglas by steamship or canoe the first city in Canada to issue an apology to Chinese up the Fraser River. Canadians and to put in place a number of measures to The penitentiary, which opened in 1878 — the fed- ensure inclusion in our city and to encourage the prov- eral penitentiary closed in 1980 — was the first federal ince and the country to do the same. Many, many chan- penitentiary west of Manitoba, located in the Sapperton ges over the years. neighbourhood — again, not far from where I live. 9866 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

Our city was largely destroyed by the great fire of Then there’s an intervening period when we did elect a 1898. One-third of the city, from Royal Avenue down Liberal member of the Legislative Assembly for one term. to the waterfront, had been ravaged, and the westerly In 2005, Chuck Puchmayr was elected — now a portion of it was completely swept bare. The original very prominent city councillor, then a member of the Government House was located approximately where the Legislative Assembly who served very ably as Labour Royal City Manor now stands in New Westminster. And critic, among other roles. our Westminster Quay was an Expo-era development to In the subsequent election, my constituency elected revitalize New Westminster, which was also accompan- Dawn Black, a name very well known in this House, in ied by the development of the SkyTrain line going out this province and also in this country. Dawn Black served to Vancouver. several terms as a federal Member of Parliament very, As I said, New Westminster is a provincial electoral very ably — Foreign Affairs critic and held many port- district in the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, folios at a federal level. the only electoral district to have existed for every gen- One of the things I know she is proudest of is that…. eral election. For every single general election, there has After the murder of 14 women at Ecole Polytechnique in been a constituency of New Westminster. 1989, it was Dawn Black who built all-party consensus in Our constituency has had a long history of really fine the federal parliament that on December 6, from that day and able elected political representatives. I could review forward, there should be a day set aside to recognize and the entire list of them, but since we were around since, remember women who were victims of violence. That did, you know, the beginning, so to speak — not the very, indeed, become the law. very beginning, but we are the only electoral district Dawn Black is also remembered, of course, for being that’s been around as long as British Columbia has been a very able Deputy Speaker in this Legislature. Dawn around — I won’t review the entire history. stepped down last time. But I will say that the constituency of New Westminster I pinch myself every single day that I am honoured to has elected representatives from either the CCF, the pre- follow in their footsteps and to represent this very won- decessor to the NDP, or the NDP for every term for 60 derful community. years except for one — and excellent representatives, I I mentioned that the city and the community have must say. changed so very much over the years. Indeed, they have. The hon. Rae Eddie held the seat from 1952 until 1969. Today, while we have one mill remaining, the Kruger mill That was as, first, a CCF member and then an NDP mem- on the Fraser River…. That remains our only mill and our ber. Dennis Cocke, a name that is really legendary in major industrial endeavour, our major industrial enter- our community and in this province, represented New prise in the city of New Westminster. Westminster from 1969 to 1986. Dennis Cocke held vari- I have, in recent months, been visiting some of our ous positions in the Legislature. He was part of a very others. It being Manufacturing Month, for Steel Day powerful duo. Dennis Cocke and Yvonne Cocke were a last month, I visited Pacific Bolt, a small manufactur- very powerful couple, a very powerful family, who had, ing operation — 50 employees. I guess it’s inching up together, a huge impact on the political and economic to maybe what you’d call just touching a medium-sized and social life of our constituency but also of the province. enterprise but pretty big for New Westminster for an in- [1700] dustrial enterprise. Then a very, very fine woman, a woman of incredible They are the only nuts-and-bolts manufacturer west of integrity, who we paid tribute to in this House just a few Ontario, employing about 50 people. They showed me short months ago: , who passed away in June. around their plant with great pride. I had the opportun- A memorial service, a moving memorial service, was held ity to meet with many of the workers, the employer, the for her in September. Madame Speaker was able to attend, owner, the managers, the front-line workers, the skilled and the family was so moved to have a wonderful wreath tradespeople — incredible pride. there from all members of the Legislative Assembly. Some of the machinery that they work on has been Anita Hagen held the position of MLA for New around almost as long as New Westminster. Some of it Westminster from 1986 through to 1996. She served first is very modern, very high tech. It’s a thriving enterprise in the official opposition, and then she served in govern- that really is looking for support in the area of manufac- ment. She was the Deputy Premier of British Columbia turing in this province — spoke out about that — and we with Premier . She served, also, as Minister need to be there for them. of Education and Minister of Multiculturalism. One of One of the things that was also very exciting…. Our the very important things that she has to her credit is the businesses in New Westminster…. I’ve talked about how creation of a human rights commission in this province. much we are a part of a cohesive community, and they Anita Hagen was replaced by in give back in so many different ways. One of the things 1996, who served as Minister of Advanced Education in I was so pleased to learn was that Pacific Bolt in New 2000 and Attorney General in 2000 and 2001. Westminster actually has a very, very active and aggres- Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9867

sive and forward-looking equity-hiring program in their Very recently a school was opened in New Westminster, enterprise that is supported provincially and federally. and there was huge discussion. The whole community I had the opportunity to meet a young aboriginal engages in a discussion about what we should name our woman, Jasmine — I’ve already spoken about that in this new schools — something that probably happens in other House — who, with the support of her employer and her communities. New Westminster, school district 40, de- co-workers and an aggressive equity-hiring program, is cided to name this new school the Qayqayt School. thriving as a skilled tradesperson, really loving her job. That also means that children in the school district of [1705] New Westminster learn about the history of our First We don’t have a lot of industry left in New Westminster. Nations in our own city of New Westminster, our own Our biggest occupation today, actually, is health care. community, but also the history of First Nations in our More people work in health care in New Westminster country. Chief Rhonda Larrabee has been speaking out than in any other occupation, whether that’s at the Royal very, very eloquently, since the federal report, on recon- Columbian Hospital, whether it’s for Fraser Health, ciliation for aboriginal peoples — to propose and to build which has a number of offices there, whether it’s the on the kind of education that we need to do in our com- numerous residential care facilities that exist in our con- munity and in our school district on those issues. stituency. Our city is an increasingly diverse city, an ethnic- We really believe that with the growth of Royal ally diverse city. I mentioned that we had a thriving Columbian Hospital…. Our city is really intent on build- Chinatown at one time. It was literally burned to the ing Royal Columbian Hospital as the centre of a health ground in the Great Fire in New Westminster. Also, for care hub, with research and technology and so on at- many other reasons — in part because of the racist laws tached to it. I would expect that that will only grow the of the city — people pushed out over time. number of people employed in health care in the future. I have to say that we have become a destination for So many people work in the service sector, of course, new immigrants to this province and very proudly so. In as they do across British Columbia. I made a statement addition to our South Asian community — and I want last week for Small Business Month about some of those to speak about our South Asian community in a minute small businesses in New Westminster, and they really — we have a growing Chinese population from many span the spectrum of small businesses. places — from Taiwan, from the People’s Republic of They are so very involved in not just employing so China, from Hong Kong. many people in New Westminster but also really con- [1710] tributing through the chamber of commerce, through It’s a growing Chinese population, with many people their business improvement associations and through seeking out New Westminster because even though our their participation in so many charitable and commun- housing is becoming less affordable than it was, it’s still ity events. They give back so very much in so many ways. more affordable than Vancouver or Burnaby. They are It’s, I think, very important to note, when we talk about certainly taking their place in our community. the history of New Westminster, that it has been, and The Filipino community is also growing by leaps and continues to this day to be, the home of the Qayqayt First bounds in New Westminster. Several restaurants, sev- Nation. Qayqayt means “gathering place.” There was once eral stores, Filipino organizations, twinning with a sister a thriving community of several hundred members of city in the Philippines between New Westminster and the Qayqayt Nation located on the hills above the Fraser the Philippines, cafés — it’s a very thriving, a very active River. It was indeed a gathering place for First Nations, Filipino community. And a growing Korean commun- and it was indeed a place for commerce and for exchan- ity, an absolutely growing Korean community — Korean ges throughout the length and the breadth of the Fraser businesses, Korean cultural organizations. River and the Fraser Valley. I want to make special mention of our South Asian Today one can count the members of the Qayqayt First community, because they really are such an important Nation on two hands. It is to their credit and, especially, part of the Queensborough part of New Westminster to the credit of Chief Rhonda Larrabee, who I want to that we’re going to be losing. They have been there since recognize today, that she has…. She and her family have the early days, working in the mills. I want to thank the undertaken a many-year endeavour to have the Qayqayt people of Queensborough for being such a vital part of First Nation recognized and become fully integrated into New Westminster for so many, many years. the New Westminster community. I speak in support of this report, but my heart is They absolutely are. They are part of every event -or broken, and their hearts are broken that they will no ganized by the city. They are part of virtually every event longer be part of the provincial constituency of New organized in our community. When we have representa- Westminster. tion from the federal government, the provincial govern- ment, the city government, we also have representation Deputy Speaker: I recognize the Leader of the Official from our Qayqayt First Nation. Opposition. 9868 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

J. Horgan: Thank you, hon. Speaker. It’s a pleasure to whenever the boundaries are redistributed, where is the be recognized by you for the very first time in your new Slocan Valley going to go? Will it be in Nelson-Creston? role. I’m grateful for that. You look great up there, so job Will it be in West Kootenay? well done. [1715] It is a privilege again, as always, to stand and speak in the Legislature about the report that has been tabled by [Madame Speaker in the chair.] the Boundaries Commission and speak in favour of the motion that’s before us. As Leader of the Opposition, I Interjection. don’t spend as much time in debate as I have in the past. Formerly, as House Leader, I would be up on my feet J. Horgan: The member for Kootenay East says he quite regularly during any given day, so it’s a real treat doesn’t want it. Little doubt that the people in the Slocan for me to be able to stand and participate in this debate. Valley would not be voting for the member for Kootenay As with the member for New Westminster, it’s with a East, so I can imagine…. bit of sadness, because my beloved Juan de Fuca will be changing when this report is adopted. I understand, when Hon. B. Bennett: You can’t say that. we complete this motion, there will be legislation brought forward by the Government House Leader, and we will be J. Horgan: I can’t say that with absolute certainty, but changing the boundaries for the coming election in 2017. boy oh boy — pretty darn certain. When I was first elected to this Legislature in 2005, I We all — all of us in this place — grow an affinity and represented the region called Malahat–Juan de Fuca. That an attachment to the geographic areas that are constitut- constituency was even larger than the one that I represent ed as electoral areas for the purposes of representation now. Of course, I say, absolutely advisedly, when I talk here in this Legislature. I was gratified when the bound- about large constituencies, I am surrounded by mem- aries were redistributed in 2009 and Malahat–Juan de bers for Peace River South, members for Skeena, mem- Fuca became Juan de Fuca. And there was reason for that. bers for North Island, who have massive constituencies. Firstly, hon. Speaker, good to see you back in the chair. But for someone who largely represents an area on south- The reason that I was excited about the new constitu- ern Vancouver Island, I have the largest area of the lot — ency is that it added the community of in its 2,500 square kilometres represented by the current Juan totality to the area that I represented. As I said earlier in de Fuca. Before that, it was even larger. my remarks, Malahat–Juan de Fuca only had a portion I want to talk a little bit about Malahat–Juan de Fuca, of Metchosin and only a portion of Langford. which was the first constituency that I was elected to rep- When the Boundaries Commission, in their wisdom, resent. That constituency, for those of you who under- redrew the maps in 2009, or for the 2009 election, they stand the map of southern Vancouver Island, contained had the good sense of following, in my case in any event, a whole bunch of portions of municipalities in the old municipal boundaries. Now voters, electors, would have regime before 2009. In 2005, my constituency contained a sense of who they were voting for. If someone lived in a portion of Langford, a portion of Metchosin and all of Colwood and they said to me, “I always vote for you,” I the area from Sooke west towards Port Renfrew, through would go: “Well, that’s difficult to get my head around, the mountains, through the Sooke Hills to the Cowichan because I do not represent Colwood.” River just south of Duncan. Prior to the redistribution however, there were I used to remark — and for those, again, who under- Metchosin people who voted for me and there were stand the territory — that I, in my home in an area called Metchosin people who voted for the member for Luxton in the great community of Langford, would drive Esquimalt–Royal Roads. So it was difficult to under- west to visit . I would leave East Sooke and re- stand just who you voted for based on the municipality turn by going east to the West Shore, and then I would that you lived in where you paid your municipal taxes. drive north to visit South Cowichan. The new boundaries that created the constituency of Now, I’ve got to tell you that that was difficult for Juan de Fuca were gratifying to me. And the area that I people to understand. How is it, hon. Member…? How represent today as I stand before you includes four mu- is it, Member for Malahat–Juan de Fuca, that you go west nicipal entities within the capital regional district in the to find east, you go east to find west and go north to be great southern portion of Vancouver Island. in the south? That’s the nature of the constituency that I I represent the district of Highlands, the city of represented, and I believe that’s the nature of many con- Langford, the district of Metchosin, the district of Sooke stituencies represented in this House today. and the electoral area of Juan de Fuca that takes us all the Quite often it doesn’t make a lot of sense to those who way out through Jordan River, through Shirley, through do not look at electoral maps to understand what goes on. Otter Point and lastly out to Port Renfrew on the west What’s the pulse of British Columbia? What’s the pulse of coast of Vancouver Island, and all of the forested lands a particular region? I know in the Kootenays, for example, between the Strait of Juan de Fuca and the Salish Sea. Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9869

It’s an exciting and dynamic constituency. It’s been my heard me talk about this before. And where better to absolute pleasure and privilege to represent it. But now, meet people than when they have a plateful of food and with this resolution before us and the new maps that have you’re asking them: “At what point do you want me to been created by the Electoral Boundaries Commission, deposit the mint jelly? Do you want it right on the lamb? the constituency will be dropping Metchosin from its Do you want it on the side of the plate”? numbers, being called Langford–Juan de Fuca. Now, these are minor issues, I know, when we’re talk- Now, I’m absolutely supportive of heightening the im- ing about the important, weighty issues of public policy portance and relevance of Langford to my constituency. in British Columbia. But for retail politics, for meeting It’s one of the most dynamic communities in British people, for connecting with people, there’s nothing better Columbia and certainly one of the fastest growing on than doling out the mint jelly. Coleslaw was fine. Corn Vancouver Island. We have amenities beyond compare was okay. But the mint jelly table was it for me. — two new schools being built to house new students The Happy Valley Herb Farm on Happy Valley Road, that are coming on stream, state-of-the-art technologies, where I represent…. Lynda Dowling gave me a special parks, trails, bike trails and sports facilities. We have two spoon for doling out the mint jelly, which is made with new arenas. We have a football field. Rugby Canada has a lavender hint to it. For those who can see colours, it’s come to Langford to make it their home. important, but it means nothing to me. But I was given a It’s just a fantastic place to live. I’ve been there for 23 special spoon to dole out the mint jelly. And if this report years now. I raised my family there, and I’m very proud passes, which I understand it will, I will no longer have to be a resident of Langford. So Langford-Juan de Fuca the opportunity to be at the front of the line — or rather, in itself is a good thing. But here’s the sad part. Those of the back of the line — on Metchosin Day. you who enjoy fall fairs, those of you who have the sense Many people will be saying: “Hon. Member, if that’s of what a rural community can be like, will appreciate my the biggest problem you have with this report, then, why sorrow at having Metchosin leave my area or the area that are you standing, speaking to it?” will be represented by the next person to seek office and be successful in Langford–Juan de Fuca. Interjection. Metchosin is a spectacularly rural location — fiercely rural, I would argue. And on Metchosin Day every year J. Horgan: I got a comment from the other side. It was in September, they have a salmon and a lamb barbecue. in passing, so I’ll just let it go. It is absolutely the meal ticket for the entire south Island. These are important issues. It goes back to my col- People line up for hours to get access to the beautiful league from New Westminster. We become attached to lamb of Metchosin. the locations that we represent. We have to remember al- When I was first elected to represent Metchosin, I was ways that we are not here other than by the good wishes asked to participate in the doling out of the food and the and will of the people who send us here. If that changes, condiments and so on, and they stuck me in coleslaw. by increasing or decreasing populations in an area, by a Coleslaw. I thought: “Come on. I’m an opposition mem- redistribution to manage the growing and evolving na- ber, but coleslaw? Certainly I should be able to get bet- ture of our province and our region, then, so be it. ter than that.” But I worked hard. The next year, I moved But for me, going now into what will be my fourth up to the corn table, which was okay. I didn’t mind corn. election campaign on what will be the third set of bound- aries…. I heard one member say: “Well, I’m going to be C. Trevena: It’s a bit corny. moving from this street to that street.” The urban mem- bers of the Legislature have daunting challenges with di- J. Horgan: It’s a bit corny, and I kind of fit that bill verse populations and large populations in condensed my colleague suggests and rightly so. But I managed to areas, oftentimes in highrises, difficult to access. It’s not make it to the end of the line. The mint jelly station at as easy to get mint jelly onto people’s plates when you’re the Metchosin Day’s lamb barbecue is the pinnacle of going to large condominium complexes in urban centres. serving the people of your community. And for two gor- But for those of us who have the good fortune…. I con- geous years…. sider myself to be blessed, in this regard, to represent an [1720] area that is dynamic and fast-growing and as urban as Sadly, it was cancelled this year because of the fire haz- you can find in British Columbia, a place like Langford, ards that we’re all familiar with in British Columbia this and also to be able to go to a place that is fiercely rural, summer, so I will not have another opportunity to be like Metchosin or the Highlands, which is also a rural doling out the mint jelly at the Metchosin lamb barbecue. part of my constituency, or the hub of the west coast of Now, people are joking. They’re laughing. They’re the southern part of Vancouver Island, the great district smirking. They’re rolling their eyes. But everybody goes of Sooke. It is a real privilege and an honour to represent by the mint jelly table. As a retail politician — I’m shame- these rural communities and a dynamic urban commun- less about this — I like people. Hon. Speaker, you’ve ity as well. 9870 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

When I hear my colleagues from Vancouver-Hastings back and forth, up the Malahat, north to South Cowichan, or Vancouver-Quilchena talk about, “Well, we’re just west to East Sooke and then east to the West Shore. moving a couple of blocks over or a couple of blocks It was confusing to me. It was confusing to anyone up. We’re on this side of Granville. We’re on that side of that I talked to. But you get into a pattern. You get into Granville,” I can appreciate that it may not be as emotion- a rhythm. You get into a sense of what the people in the al for them as it is for those of us who have established region that you represent need. It rarely, rarely breaks as a relationships with people who are now going to be look- partisan question. It’s always a question about the people. ing elsewhere for their political representation. What are their needs? What are their hopes? What are It seems a small thing. For those who are watching at their aspirations? home, those who think, “Well, isn’t your job just to come I worked very closely with successive Ministers of here and make the laws of the land? Aren’t you supposed Education on the government side to ensure that, finally, to be debating vigorously the back and forth of budgetary we would have new, state-of-the-art high schools built decisions? Are the priorities of the government the pri- in Juan de Fuca. It wasn’t until the last minister…. It was orities of your community? Are you standing up for the George Abbott who was the minister at the time. He was things that are important to the people you represent?” the last of many that I had talked to and cajoled and lob- of course, that’s the work that we do, but we’re all human bied and coerced to try and convince them that a good beings. We all establish relationships. expenditure of public resources would be better made To be successful in this business, I believe, enduring in my constituency than in a neighbouring constituency. relationships need to be established. And they don’t usu- That’s the essence of the advocacy work that we do. ally become established along party lines. For example, Whether we’re in government or in opposition, we’re al- I see my friend from Peace River South. I have been to ways trying to find advantage for the people who sent us Fort St. John many, many times, and I’ve met with Mayor here. It’s our fundamental responsibility. To think that I Lori Ackerman. On every occasion that I alight in Fort will not be able to advocate as aggressively for the people St. John, I stop in and I see the mayor. of Metchosin after the next election, should I be success- We do have relationships that are not built on a parti- ful, as I have been to this point in time, saddens me. I will san divide. Ms. Ackerman votes differently than I do, and absolutely miss them. that’s okay. We have a common interest in understanding Having said that, southern Vancouver Island is not a what the needs of our communities are. massive location, and I will be going to Metchosin peri- [1725] odically. My brother lives there, after all. I’ll be going in Similarly, my colleague from Kootenay East — he and to see him, and I’ll be visiting my family and friends in I have grappled and crossed swords and argued and been the region. But it’s the ability to be able to say: “I repre- intense many, many times. But at the end of the day, the sent the people of Metchosin.” I will not be able to say that objectives of the member for Kootenay East and the ob- should I be successful in 2017, and that disappoints me. jectives of myself and my colleagues are the same, and Now, I’ve been involved in these sorts of things in the that is to fiercely protect and promote the interests of past. I did not make a presentation to this Boundaries the people who sent us here. When that changes, it’s an Commission, but I did make a presentation to the federal emotional moment. Boundaries Commission, interestingly. I did so because Now, not to overstate that, but for the new members when I first became aware of political boundaries that of the House, those who are coming for the first time, if were drawn along the lines of electoral purposes rather you then look at this map and you find that there’s an than for the purposes of municipal division or region- area…. As the member for New Westminster has discov- al division, I was working for a chap who represented ered, Queensborough is no longer going to be part of her Cowichan–Malahat–The Islands. That was the name of constituency. That feels like a loss, a genuine loss. Now, the federal constituency. there will be additional people coming to the commun- At that time, it stretched from Nanaimo right down ity. You’re going to be able to meet new voters that have to Esquimalt and all of the Gulf Islands. It was a massive never met you before. All of that happens in the course constituency. Tommy Douglas was the first member to of our business here and outside in our communities. represent Cowichan–Malahat–The Islands, and now that But you do establish relationships, and it’s a sad thing constituency has been split into four federal constituen- when they end. cies. It used to be one, and now it is four. I bring this up As I often said to my caucus, when Malahat–Juan as illustrative of the challenges that we’ve faced and the de Fuca became defunct and it was just Juan de Fuca, I challenges that the commissioners faced when we gave missed the Malahatians. I missed going up the hill, driving them their marching orders by statute whenever it was — up the Malahat, going to the Cowichan River and meeting 18 months ago or something to that effect. I believe they the people in Cowichan Bay, Shawnigan Lake, Cobble Hill came back and did a particularly good job. and Glenora. Those were my constituents for an ever-brief The reason I highlighted the emotional connection we period of time. I still pine for those days when I would go as representatives have to our area is because that can’t Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9871

cloud the work of the commission. The commission must ride in the park, but for those of us who live on Vancouver look at population distributions. The commission must Island, it’s not just a physical barrier; it’s a psychological look at what transportation corridors make sense. It has barrier. to try and not divide communities. It has to try and bring The new federal constituency of Langford-Cowichan- them together. Ladysmith, I think it’s called, has to deal with not only a Now, we’re in the business of doing that all the time. community that’s really centred in the Cowichan Valley We are always trying to find common ground with our but is also centred in the capital regional district and is neighbours. We’re always trying to find ways to advocate attached to Nanaimo. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to for our constituencies. But the commissioners, when they me, based on my personal experience as a representa- were set with their task, were sent out to ensure that there tive as well as my understanding as a born-and-raised was an equitable balance of population and geographical Vancouver Islander. distribution, also ensuring that those transportation cor- So I made a presentation to the boundaries commis- ridors made sense. sion there, and they didn’t listen to a darned thing I said. [1730] That’s probably because they didn’t have the emotional My colleague from North Island represents a whole attachment that I talked about. They had numbers. They series of places that you can only get to by ferry. Soon had data in front of them. “We have to make sure that one of them you’ll only be able to get to by a cable ferry. we’re not deviating too much from what the standard is Heaven knows if that’s going to work. We’ve got some going to be across the province, across the country, at doubts about that right now. the federal level” — much more complex than we have My friend from Saanich North and the Islands also has here. They made their determinations. We’ve had an elec- to find himself on ferries. My colleague from Columbia tion. People were elected. They’re going to be going to the River–Revelstoke also has a ferry system in his constitu- House of Commons. All is well. ency that affects him. Those issues had to be taken into So my concern and my fretting about these emotion- consideration when the commissioners put in place the al issues mattered not to the boundary commission, and recommendations in the report that we have before us. most importantly, it mattered not to the voters, because As much as it’s really easy to sit on the couch and they showed up in large numbers in the most recent fed- second-guess the work of the commission, as I think we eral election, the largest numbers we’ve seen in perhaps did do the last time they got together…. I can remember, two or three generations — fantastic news. Not one indi- even at the appointment of the individuals, there was vidual who voted in Langford-Cowichan-Ladysmith was controversy. “Oh, those individuals will never be able to at all concerned about the configuration. They went into do an effective job. They just don’t understand.” the polling place, they looked at the ballot, they cast their Well, of course they understood their marching orders. votes, they have a representative, and our democracy has They understood their terms of reference. What they worked very, very well. didn’t have was the emotional attachment that all of us When you peel away all of the issues about our personal in this place have to the areas that we represent. And be- connections and our personal loyalties, it comes down to cause they don’t have that emotional attachment, I think what is going to work for the people that we represent. Sure, they’ve done a very, very capable job. it’s going to be easier if I don’t have to drive up the Malahat I am absolutely crestfallen at the prospect of no longer every day to represent people in the Cowichan Valley. Sure, doling out the mint jelly. But I do know that the work of it’s going to be a lot more fun if I get to go to Metchosin the commission was absolutely above reproach. We have more regularly than I will now with the redistributed maps. not had a Gracie’s finger. We have not had a gerrymander. But at the end of the day, this process is not done for Anyone who thinks that that’s the case has not been pay- us. It’s not done for the people who are sitting here today. ing attention to the evolution of these issues over time. It’s done for the people who send us here, and I think I go back to my presentation to the federal bound- that there’s been a very capable job done with this com- aries commission. The reason I went was not because I mission’s report. had any particular interest in what the configuration of Before I wrap up my remarks, I wanted to make note of the maps was. But I felt it was important for me to offer one individual who represents…. I’ve heard other mem- up my experience with respect to Malahat–Juan de Fuca bers talk about those who’ve been elected to this place as an elected representative and, also, my understanding over time. I think the Legislative Library has had more of the federal challenges in massive areas on Vancouver requests for “who came before me?” than ever before, and Island with ferry issues, with highway issues. I think that’s a good thing. It reminds us that we are tran- People often say the Malahat. I’ve talked to successive sitory, if I can use something that was perhaps a little bit Transportation ministers about the Malahat drive, from controversial earlier in the day. the south part of Vancouver Island into the Cowichan [1735] Valley. Now, many people who live in treacherous areas We are transitory. We come here, and we’re here not like Revelstoke will look at the Malahat and think that’s a at the pleasure of the Lieutenant-Governor, as those in 9872 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

the Premier’s office, but at the pleasure of the people enduring relationships, enduring over half a century with who elect us. Butch. Butch took good counsel from Frank, and Butch When I was looking through the great number of voted for me in May of 2005, and I’m able to stand here people who have represented the area that we now call today and tell the story. It was a fun story for me. It was Juan de Fuca — which was formerly Esquimalt for abso- a funner story for Frank, because although he has been lutely decades and then became Esquimalt–Port Renfrew, out of politics for some time, as we all know, once you’ve then became Malahat–Juan de Fuca, then became Juan got it in your blood, it’s very difficult to get rid of it — as de Fuca and will in the future be called Langford–Juan I look at the second generation of persons with that name. de Fuca — one thing jumped out at me. My name is here ’s spouse is here, as you know. I can say that. three times. That jumped out at me. That’s a crafty way of getting around that. What else jumped out at me is another name here, and Oh, stay with me, Quilchena. Stay with me. I’m al- it’s Franklin Mitchell. Frank Mitchell was a CCF member most done. of this Legislature, first elected in 1951. He was re-elected With that, I’d like to wrap up my remarks and thank in 1952 and then was re-elected in 1979. Frank Mitchell members for their patience. It’s been a while since I’ve had a big break from this place, a big break. He went on to had an opportunity to speak in debate. I have to confess be a police officer in the community of Esquimalt, served that this is the quietest that the government side has been there for 25 years after being first elected here, and then when I’ve made remarks. I don’t know if it’s deference or came back on his retirement and served two more terms. respect for my moderate tones. Frank is still very much alive and kicking and living in my community on the west coast of the Island. Interjections. The last anecdote I’ll share with you. This is largely -be cause Lynn is here and he wants to be entertained at the J. Horgan: Don’t blow it, yeah. I’ve got this far and I’m end of the day. When I first put my name forward to run starting to wreck it. to be a member of this place, I went to Frank Mitchell. I approached him and said: “Frank, I need your help. I Interjection. need you to help me understand these areas that I’m not familiar with.” I hadn’t been to Port Renfrew since I was J. Horgan: Yeah, we’re enthralled. Thank you very a kid. He said: “Don’t worry about it, Member.” It was not much, Member. “member” at that time. “Don’t worry about it, candidate.” But it is a privilege to have an opportunity to repre- I’m not wanting to say my name. “I’ll take you out to Port sent Juan de Fuca. It’s a privilege to be able to stand here Renfrew, and I’ll introduce you around.” and say that the Boundaries Commission report is, in my A friend and I got in the Volkswagen van, my friend opinion, as good as you can do in a very difficult situa- driving. I’m in the passenger seat, and Frank, who is a tion. We’ve balanced, by and large, the population chal- large man — he’s my size and better, with a spectacular shock of white hair — was sitting, regal, in the back seat lenges we have, the geographic challenges we have, the of this Volkswagen van. transportation challenges we have. We pulled into Port Renfrew, which is largely a First When this bill comes forward, as the Government Nations community. The Pacheedaht reservation was House Leader has promised, I’m fairly confident it will where we actually stopped, on the San Juan River. And pass swiftly after measured debate, sufficient debate to fill Butch — who I now know, but I didn’t know at the time…. the time of the day that we have at our disposal. He was just a guy standing on the side of the road, cut- [1740] ting up some salmon. His name is Butch, and he’s become Hon. Speaker, it’s always a delight to speak with you a friend. Butch was looking at us a bit sideways. “What and every member of this House. Thank you very much is this van doing in my driveway? Why are these people for the opportunity. coming here? Who are these two young punks that have come to my territory?” Hon. T. Lake: I thank all of the members for their We got out of the van, and we pulled open the back comments. With that, I move Motion 26. door, and there was regal Frank sitting in the back seat. And Butch’s face just lit up. He had this enormous smile Madame Speaker: The motion reads: “Be it resolved on his face, and he started laughing. He said: “Which one that in accordance with section 14 of the Electoral do you want me to vote for, Frank? That one or that one?” Boundaries Commission Act, R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 107, the And Frank pointed to me, and Butch has been voting for proposals contained in the Final Report of the Electoral me ever since. Boundaries Commission tabled in the Legislative That’s the type of lore that a guy like Frank Mitchell, Assembly on September 28, 2015 be approved.” after…. First elected in 1951, and still going strong on the May I ask members to take their seats to assist in the west coast of Vancouver Island. That’s how he did politics: taking of the division. Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9873

J. Horgan: I know this will come as a shock to all who [R. Chouhan in the chair.] are here, and those who were here for my remarks will be not be half as disappointed as others, but I’m advised Second Reading of Bills that I broke Hansard while I was speaking, and the screen went blank. Not being prone to conspiracy theories, I BILL 41 — MISCELLANEOUS STATUTES take some comfort in knowing that Lynn Klein was here AMENDMENT ACT (No. 3), 2015 to hear every word of it. If we weren’t able to record it in Hansard, we do know Hon. S. Anton: I move that Bill 41, the Miscellaneous that our personal watchdog was here to make sure that Statutes Amendment Act (No, 3), 2015, now be read a every word was listened to intently. So thank you, Lynn, second time. for being there when Hansard was not. Bill 41 amends a number of statutes. The amendments [1745] to the University Act and the College and Institute Act will ensure that fees continue to be collected from stu- Motion 26 approved unanimously on a division. [See dents who resign from the student society. The Ministry Votes and Proceedings.] of Advanced Education will consult with student soci- eties and public post-secondary institutions to determine Introduction and which program or service fees should be protected under First Reading of Bills the legislation. The proposed amendment to the Child, Family and BILL 42 — ELECTORAL DISTRICTS ACT Community Service Act will enable the expansion of the agreements with young adults program, allowing the Hon. S. Anton presented a message from Her Honour Ministry of Children and Family Development to extend the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Electoral the duration of agreements and raise the age limit. The Districts Act. amendment will also enable agreements to be used for life skills programs in addition to the educational, voca- Hon. S. Anton: I move that the bill be introduced and tional and rehabilitative programs. read a first time now. Amendments to the Utilities Commission Act will implement recommendations from the B.C. Utilities Motion approved. Commission core review task force. The task force was initiated by government in 2014 with the goal of in- Hon. S. Anton: I am pleased to introduce the Electoral creasing the effectiveness and efficiency of the commis- Districts Act. I do so pursuant to section 14 of the sion in response to concerns raised by consumer groups Electoral Boundaries Commission Act, which requires and utilities about BCUC’s capacity to deliver clear and that if the Legislative Assembly, by resolution, approves timely decisions. the proposals contained in the final report of an electoral The final report of the task force was released in boundaries commission, the government must introduce February 2015, and government accepted all 35 recom- a bill to give effect to that resolution during the same mendations. In its response to the final report, govern- session of the Legislature. We have just approved such ment committed to considering legislation to enable a resolution, and accordingly, this bill would implement changes recommended by the task force. The amend- without amendment the proposals of the 2015 Electoral ments are intended to follow through on government’s Boundaries Commission. commitment to increase the effectiveness and efficiency The bill would create 87 electoral districts in the prov- of the B.C. Utilities Commission. ince, an increase of two districts from the current 85, with Finally, the proposed amendments to the Inter­ the areas and boundaries as recommended by the com- jurisdictional Support Orders Act are intended to mission. The new electoral districts would take effect for strengthen out-of-province support-order enforcement. the scheduled 2017 provincial general election. The amendments facilitate the enforcement of child and I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day spousal support orders from other jurisdictions that do for second reading at the next sitting of the House after not provide certified copies of orders, making this pro- today. cess more efficient. The amendments also facilitate the transfer of responsibility for serving support applica- Bill 42, Electoral Districts Act, introduced, read a first tions received from other jurisdictions from the court time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for to the B.C.-designated authority. This change will result second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. in faster service of documents and a more efficient en- forcement process. Hon. M. de Jong: I call Bill 41, second reading. Changes to this act reflect our continued commitment [1750] to supporting families, and they will further enhance the 9874 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

successful work done by staff in the family maintenance 41 is also in response to that young woman who aged out enforcement program, a program which has collected of care and died. over $3 billion for families since 1988. I think, also, the context for Bill 41 relates to Alex Gervais. He was an aboriginal, a young Métis man, who D. Donaldson: I rise today to take my place in second ended up falling from the fourth-floor window of a hotel reading debate on Bill 41, specifically Bill 41, part 2, at age 19 and dying — dying while in care. He had been which deals with amendments to the Child, Family and in a group home that was closed and was moved, contrary Community Service Act. to government policy, to a hotel, where he lived for many Those amendments primarily deal with the provision months — many months. There was no transition plan of youth agreements. Overall, it appears to give the dir- in his young life either. He was 18, almost at the time of ector the ability to offer youth agreements to youth who aging out of care, which Bill 41 addresses. turn 19 — previously youth who were termed as having I also believe that Bill 41 was a response by the gov- aged out of ministry care. It also removes references to ernment to the death of Alex Malamalatabua, who died the duration of limitations of youth agreements from at 17, while in care, with nowhere to go. He had been, for legislation, replacing them with regulation. months, in the child and adolescent psychiatric emer- At committee stage, I’ll be addressing more of the spe- gency unit at B.C. Children’s Hospital. For months, when cifics, but at this point, I’d like to speak generally. What the facility…. It should be an average stay of just one we’re facing here is a response to many cases that we’ve month. In effect, he was living in a hospital, and there witnessed and revealed and heard about since May. I was nowhere for him to go. must say that I try to remain positive. I’m a hopeful per- The comments from the independent children’s repre- son, and I give credit where credit is due when I believe sentative after he died were: “We need a better care that the government is implementing legislative changes system. We have completely defunded therapeutic fos- that make a difference. ter care.” So this is Bill 41, addressing a case like Alex This bill, in regards to the Child, Family and Community Malamalatabua, age 17, who died while in care. Services Act, makes amendments that could make a dif- Finally, I believe that Bill 41, in its effort to address ference for a limited number of youth. youth agreements, was also drafted in connection to Peter [1755] Lang, who died at 15, while in care, after being left alone What it is, though…. As a sum total of the legislative for 40 minutes while he was detoxing from a meth ad- response of this government to the issue of youth tran- diction, when his parents were told he would be under sitioning out of care, it falls very short, in my opinion. constant supervision. Again, the issue being rehabilita- I’ll speak to that. I’ll speak to the context, the issues the tive help, the ability to provide youth agreements beyond bill is attempting to address and, specifically, to youth the age of 19…. agreements. Here we have Paige Gauchier, Carly Fraser, Alex The bill is primarily a response to the report by the in- Gervais, Alex Malamalatabua and Peter Lang — all cases dependent children’s representative, called Paige’s Story, that have been revealed since May, all cases where young which came out in May. That report was about a young people died. First Nations woman, Paige Gauchier, who died just over [1800] 11 months after leaving care — aging out, as the term The sum total of the legislative response in this ses- goes, at age 19 — of a drug overdose outside of a pub- sion that we see from this government is Bill 41, where lic washroom in Oppenheimer Park in the Downtown they make some adjustments — or are suggesting some Eastside of Vancouver. adjustments — to youth agreements. I just believe that She had been labelled throughout her life as service- this falls very short of what a response should be to the resistant to provisions being provided or attempted to cases that I just outlined. be provided by the Ministry of Children and Family Bill 41, as drafted and presented, is no doubt a re- Development. I’ll go into more detail on Paige’s life — sponse to Paige’s story — Paige Gauchier. As I said in this is what Bill 41 was in response to — a little later in my introductory comments, I wanted to remind listen- my comments. ers and viewers in this House of Paige’s story as revealed But it’s not just that Bill 41 is in response to that hor- by the Representative for Children and Youth in her May rific situation of Paige Gauchier. It was also, I believe, 2015 report. drafted in the government response to the death of Carly Paige was a First Nations woman, and her horrific Fraser, a young woman who died only 20 hours and a life began in small communities in B.C. — small com- few minutes after aging out of care, with no investigation, munities where resources have been lacking. And Bill with the rehabilitative help that was needed not there and 41 does not go anywhere near addressing the resources with, eventually, a freedom-of-information request by her that are lacking. mother, Lisa Fraser, to find out what actually happened She was a First Nations girl. She was originally raised in her child’s life turned down by this government. Bill in small communities like Fort St. James. She spent time Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9875

in the Okanagan, and she spent some time in Merritt. with voluntary care agreements, and I’m making the case These are small communities that I’m very familiar with that it is a less than adequate response on the part of the when it comes to the lack of services for a girl like Paige government from a legislative framework. — lack of trauma counselling, lack of social workers. For Paige had three terminated pregnancies before she was instance, 48 percent of social workers in this province 19. She was, apparently, involved in the sex trade before carry 30 or more cases when the experts say that best she died at 19. She was labelled service-resistant by front- practices are 16 to 17. line workers, and she was left as a teenager to live alone We had this government announce that they’ve gone on the Downtown Eastside. I don’t think any prudent about hiring 110 new social workers lately, yet that was parent would think that it was appropriate for a teenager only one side of the ledger. The representative pointed at 16 to be left alone to live on the Downtown Eastside. out that 91 social workers or child protection workers It’s no place for a kid, and the prudent parent in this case were lost during that same time — so only a net gain of 19. was the Ministry of Children and Family Development. Bill 41 was an effort to address the story of Paige, and Bill 41 is a response to Paige’s life and Paige’s story. it’s only addressing it through some adjustments on If this is the sum total of the government’s response youth agreements. around kids and youth and young people transitioning Paige was the subject of 30 child protection reports dur- out of care, then I think it is wholly, wholly inadequate. ing her 19 years. She was repeatedly returned to her moth- At 19, Paige aged out — in other words, the Ministry of er — three times during the first year of her life — despite Children and Family Development were no longer re- it being known that it was not a healthy, safe or a nurturing sponsible for her care. She was living in a foster home at environment to be with her mother. Her mother had some the time. When the foster parents phoned the ministry very serious issues with drug addiction and with alcohol. office and said, “Well, she turned 19 today. What do we By the time that Paige was 16 years of age, she had do with her belongings? All we have is a garbage bag,” moved 40 times. She had moved between residences with they were told, “Put her belongings in a garbage bag, and her mother, between foster homes and between tempor- deliver them to the last known place that we know she ary placements and shelters. was at,” which was the school. Her belongings delivered Again, Bill 41 is a response to this story. As I’ve said al- in a garbage bag to her school. Now we have Bill 41, a ready, it falls far short in a response to Paige’s story. response to Paige’s story. After 2009, Paige moved to the Downtown Eastside It’s talking about youth agreements. It’s talking about with her mother. Between 2009 and when she aged out services after 19. Now I’m going to talk a little bit about of care at 19, a matter of 2½ years, Paige moved another what that means and why this response is inadequate. A 50 times between homeless shelters; safe houses; detox youth agreement is not foster care, with all of the sup- centres; and couch-surfing, which is a term that we’re ports that are contingent with foster care. As pointed out very familiar with in the small communities in the north. in the Paige report…. I’ll quote a little bit from that report, When there are not enough facilities for young people because it was the genesis of the bill that we see today: in distress, they find couches of friends and acquaint- “A youth agreement is a legal agreement between the Ministry of Children and Family Development and a youth, most typically ances and exploiters — temporary facilities. They find between the ages of 16 to 18” — this bill involves making amend- these couches to live on. It’s called couch-surfing, and it ments to expand that beyond 18 — “who is affected by an adverse opens them up to all sorts and types of abuse. condition, such as severe substance abuse or sexual exploitation She also lived in foster homes, and she also lived and is unable to live at home or with another family or adult. The purpose of the agreement is to help such youth gain independ- in single-room-occupancy hotels — SROs — in the ence, return to school or gain work experience and life skills. Downtown Eastside. “However, there are six criteria that must be filled in order for a Bill 41, again, is a response to this story I’m telling. youth to proceed with a youth agreement. As such, these criteria Paige had 16 school transfers through a number of are not attainable by many vulnerable youth who may have the capacity to live independently. Conversely, many youth who are communities in B.C. By all accounts, she was a bright assessed as eligible are placed on youth agreements before they young woman who actually wanted to pursue her stud- are ready to live independently.” ies, her academic career. But the way that she was living, In the case of Paige, by the time she turned 19, all indi- with the challenges she faced in her life, she wasn’t able cations are that she was addicted to drugs. She had been to make it past grade 10 — but 16 school transfers in that severely traumatized by being involved in the sex trade. short of a period. She had been abused. This is not the kind of youth who She had 40 police files on her short life up until 19 are going to be able to, on their own, gain enough experi- years old, and 17 times she was in an emergency ward ence on a youth agreement to return to school. A youth or in detox after being found unconscious or incoherent agreement in the instance of Paige, you know, provided — sometimes on public buses, sometimes in the street. her with funding for some of her personal medical needs, [1805] which is good, including transportation to medical ap- Again, Bill 41 is a reaction to the Paige report and try- pointments in other communities. ing to address the issues that Paige faced. It simply deals [1810] 9876 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

The point here is that under this Bill 41 and the sug- Instead, this bill, Bill 41 and the amendments pro- gestions that are being made as amendments to the Child, posed, are silent on that — silent on the fact that 60 per- Family and Community Service Act, they don’t talk about cent of youth in care are of aboriginal descent, yet youth the resources that are needed to actually give a help- agreements are not available to delegated aboriginal au- ing hand to young youth, like Paige, who are in terrible thorities for youth on reserve. It’s mind-boggling, in the predicaments and are labelled service-resistant. It’s not fact that that was not addressed in this legislation. Again, simply providing additional cash resources to the youth, it’s part of the reason that I say that Bill 41 falls far short which it appears that this amendment is about. of a legislative strategy to address the whole issue of the It’s about the rehabilitative services that are needed. transitioning of youth out of care. It’s about a whole host of services that are needed. The [1815] Paige report by the independent youth representative What a serious and wholesome approach would be and goes a long ways to point that out. Rehabilitation services what Bill 41 could have addressed was recommendation would be needed in the case of Paige, in the case of Alex No. 1 from the Representative for Children and Youth Malamalatabua and in the case of Peter Lang to provide under Paige’s Story. the important transition support needed for them to ac- Recommendation No. 1 has a number of bullet points, tually get to school, for them to actually get to jobs, for but the one that is really pertinent to what we’re talking them to actually become contributing members of soci- about today under Bill 41 is this, and I’ll quote from the ety and overcome the challenges they face. report. This is the recommendation. But all Bill 41 does is say that the government may — “Enhanced transition planning is offered for aboriginal youth may, discretionary — provide a youth agreement, offer a who are aging out of government care, with the recognition that youth agreement, to a youth past 19. Again, that might these youth may require particularly robust services, including foster care and other supports, that extend beyond the age of 19. help. If it does help a few young people who are in care Aboriginal girls in care who are at risk of drug overdose, involve- to get to the next stage, then that’s a good thing. But as ment in survival sex trade and poor school attendance to be of- the legislative response in this session to the litany of hurt fered extension of foster care to 24 years of age.” and pain and waste of human potential that I outlined in Other provinces have enacted legislation similar to my earlier remarks, it is just not up to snuff. that. The point that the Representative for Children and The amendments to the act add life skills as well as re- Youth is making in that recommendation, the point that habilitative services. But look at who we’re dealing with is pertinent to Bill 41, is that youth agreements fall far here: children who have great trauma. If the life skills short of foster care, and as it stands today when a child aren’t there in first place, then what’s going to happen to ages out of care from the Ministry of Children and Family these children? It says that in a youth agreement, under Development at age 19, they’re no longer available for these proposed amendments, the youth has to be in- foster care. volved in life skills and has to be involved in a rehabili- Under the amendments under Bill 41, they might be tative program. Many of these rehabilitative programs offered a youth agreement. But the distinction that the aren’t available, especially in more rural areas. Trauma Representative for Children and Youth is making is that counselling — you have to go hundreds of kilometres, in the resources required for a fair transition, for a just some communities, to access trauma counselling. transition for these young people are not available under In Bill 41 it says: “Well, if a youth like Paige doesn’t youth agreements. They are available under foster care. take us up on life skills, then potentially, she should be So I’m going to conclude my remarks here in this cut off the youth agreement.” I mean, the reality of the second reading debate of Bill 41, in particular address- youth that we’re dealing with and the challenges and bar- ing part 2 of the bill around the Child, Family and riers that they have to overcome is not addressed in the Community Service Act amendments, with just the gen- section of Bill 41 that deals with the Child, Family and eral comment that it’s disturbing and it’s disappointing Community Service Act. Sixty percent of youth in care that this is the sum total of the government’s youth re- are of aboriginal descent, but youth agreements are not sponse plan in a legislative framework after looking at available to delegated aboriginal agencies for youth liv- the horrific stories of Paige, the horrific stories of Carly ing on reserve. So the amendments proposed under Bill Fraser, the horrific stories of Alex Gervais, the horrific 41 do nothing to address that huge gap. story of Alex Malamalatabua and the horrific story of We’ve got an issue here. We have 60 percent of children Peter Lang. in care who are of aboriginal descent, and the population Those stories that have been revealed to us over the of the province of aboriginal ancestry is 5 percent, so it’s last six months — just since May; less than six months — totally out of balance there. I would think that if I was deserve a more fulsome, a much better, a much stronger wanting to draft legislation that really got to the crux of legislative response than what we’ve seen here today and youth transitioning out of care, I would make sure that in what we’ll get into at committee stage with this bill. that legislation I’d have something to say about services I believe the youth of this province deserve better. I be- to aboriginal youth who are aging out of care. lieve the families of this province deserve better. I believe Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9877 we can do better, and I expect better from the govern- quality for utilities — including, of course, most specific- ment. And I’ll have more comments at committee stage. ally, or the one that people would be most familiar with, B.C. Hydro. The B.C. Utilities Commission is responsible N. Macdonald: I see there are no government members for making sure that the public interest — in this case, the that are going to speak on this bill so far, which is interest- interest of ratepayers — is protected and that the signifi- ing. It is, you know, an opportunity to speak on a couple cant public investment that is controlled by B.C. Hydro of interesting aspects to important parts of government. and is owned by the people of British Columbia — that So this is the miscellaneous statutes act. It is, in fact, that infrastructure is protected. That’s the task for the B.C. the Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 3). Now, Utilities Commission. for those who are watching, a miscellaneous statutes act It is a quasi-judicial body. It makes legally binding de- is generally something that will involve minor amend- cisions. Their mission statement is “to ensure that rate- ments to a number of existing pieces of legislation. payers receive safe, reliable, non-discriminatory energy [1820] services at fair rates” from utilities such as the publicly As the name sort of hints at, this is the third such bill in owned B.C. Hydro. That’s an important task. And this this session alone. So they’re quite common. Pretty well body, the B.C. Utilities Commission, is an important every session that I’ve been here, we’ve had a miscellan- agency, especially for ratepayers. This bill makes some eous statutes act. They’re usually benign. In this case, it minor changes to the B.C. Utilities Commission. But of certainly looks like most of the elements here are benign. course, the real problem is that the B.C. Liberals regularly Sometimes government uses them to sneak in some sig- bypass the B.C. Utilities Commission altogether. nificant changes, so you have to look carefully. There is over $12 billion in B.C. Hydro spending that Bill 41 involves changes to the University Act; the has very purposefully been removed from B.C. Utilities College and Institute Act; and the Child, Family and Commission oversight by the B.C. Liberals — $12 billion Community Service Act, which my colleague just previ- that should have gone through a process that is in place ous to me has spoken about. As well, there are changes to safeguard ratepayers, was purposefully removed from to one of the justice acts. oversight by the agency that we pay for in any case and I’m going to focus most of my comments on one ele- that has the legal obligation to oversee. That is the prob- ment of the miscellaneous amendment act, which is lem that actually needs to be fixed. changes to the operation of the B.C. Utilities Commission. [1825] First, before I go there, I want to touch on changes in this You would ask yourself, and I think you’d ask your- bill to two acts that impact university and college stu- self fairly: why would the B.C. Liberals not want a group dent unions. with expertise, tasked with protecting the public interest This spring the B.C. Liberals changed the Society Act. and providing independent oversight, to look at $12 bil- So in this same session, they changed the Society Act, and lion worth of spending? What rationale is there for pur- at that time, our critic raised concerns about the impacts posely having the B.C. Liberals remove the B.C. Utilities of those changes on university and college student asso- Commission from looking at $12 billion worth of spend- ciations. Included in this act is an attempt by government ing? The answer is that the spending has something to to fix what they got wrong mere months ago. Later in the do with something other than the public interest. In fact, debate the member for Burnaby–Deer Lake will do, as that is the case, and it’s demonstrably the case. she always does, a very complete job of pointing out what The B.C. Utilities Commission was set up for a pur- remains as a problem with this attempted fix. pose that is really clear. It was set up to prevent polit- What it does raise is a question of whether the minis- ical games. When a government specifically removes at ter did any consultation with the groups impacted. But least — and this is at least — $12 billion from B.C. Utility there’ll be an opportunity for the minister, either in this Commission oversight, let’s be clear. It is to allow polit- debate or perhaps at the committee stage, to bring in ical games. That’s what the B.C. Liberals have done, that’s amendments so that we get it right this time or give an what the B.C. Liberals are doing, and that’s what the B.C. explanation as to the direction that the government has Liberals will be doing in the future. decided on. The results are predictable. While some friends of gov- But the parts of the miscellaneous amendments act ernment no doubt benefit, the ratepayer ends up pay- that I want to focus my comments on deal with section ing more. We’ve seen this. If you just look at your bill…. 17, and they run to section 27. All of these deal with, People at home, just look at your B.C. Hydro bill. Sure to be clear, fairly minor changes to the B.C. Utilities enough they have gone up, on average, 51 percent since Commission that arise from a so-called government the B.C. Liberals came in, and they are going up a fur- core review. ther 28 percent. Now, the B.C. Utilities Commission is a B.C. govern- Each and every ratepayer in the province of British ment agency that is tasked with, among other things, Columbia is paying for B.C. Liberal games. They are pay- regulating rates and regulating the standards of service ing the price of a government making decisions and pur- 9878 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

posefully removing the B.C. Utilities Commission from be right, to have community members right. But the fact having a look at it and deciding whether it’s truly in the is that the damage to B.C. Hydro is done. public interest, truly in the interest of ratepayers, to see that B.C. Hydro is being looked after properly. All of that [Madame Speaker in the chair.] has been removed by the B.C. Liberals. Now, the government will say — and it’s true — that Over the next 35 years, B.C. Hydro will pay out $55 we have about the third-lowest rates for electricity here billion for energy that is not needed. That is a startling in British Columbia. That’s true. That is accurate. But of sum and a startling mistake. In the scope of errors that course, any province that has heritage hydro dams is going have been made by governments through the history of to have cheap electricity. They’re going to have the advan- British Columbia, to make a decision that for the next tage that other provinces with different geography don’t 35 years will cost ratepayers $55 billion…. It blows your have. If you look at the three provinces that have heritage mind. It is a shocking error. hydro dams — Quebec, Manitoba and B.C. — of those, It is an error that, as opposition, we talked about. The B.C. is now the most expensive. That’s the comparison. Leader of the Opposition, as the Energy critic, predicted With hydro power, the advantage that B.C. should have, this problem, took apart the arguments of government. and has traditionally had, has been eroded with decisions To this bill. The aspect that is interesting is that the that are politically motivated and decisions that have group that was not asked to look at these decisions was been taken away from the B.C. Utilities Commission. The the B.C. Utilities Commission. They were specifically reason often relates, of course, to these decisions that the removed from looking at these projects by the Clean B.C. Liberals have made. And of course, as is common, Energy Act, which the government, in its rush to avoid they often specifically forbid the Utilities Commission to oversight of any sort, passed using closure, without the look at the decision. committee stage of that bill even going forward. They had How have some of these decisions worked out? We somewhere else they had to be, I suppose. have not only the opportunity to look at what’s coming So a $55 billion mistake that all ratepayers will pay for and to say that that’s potentially problematic. We also have over the next 30 to 35 years for energy we do not need. the ability to look back at decisions that were made by the We are buying energy most years at the same time that B.C. Liberals and decisions that were specifically removed we are running water over facilities that B.C. Hydro owns from the oversight of the B.C. Utilities Commission. — all of that without the oversight of the B.C. Utilities I’ll remind members, just for the public, to go back to Commission. IPPs. In 2006 or so, we had a host of private river-diver- That’s just one example, and it’s a shocking example. sion projects. Now, to remind members and to remind But it’s where it gets you when you put politics and the the public about that initiative, that was when the B.C. very close relationship between many of these compan- Liberals passed legislation that prevented B.C. Hydro ies and the government ahead of the public interest. from developing run-of-river facilities — specifically, You know you’ve done that when you remove the B.C. did not allow B.C. Hydro to make those developments. Utilities Commission. [1830] It also, by the way, excluded rural people in decision- The sites that B.C. Hydro had already identified as making. Actually, that was a miscellaneous statutes act good locations for run of river were given to private com- change. That was the Ashlu River provisions that re- panies, and they were given rights to those rivers for as moved rural local governments’ say in terms of whether little as $5,000. So the public paid to identify the sites, and the diversion of rivers was appropriate or not. then individual companies were given the opportunity to Let’s go back. The B.C. Liberals put forward a plan use those sites at $5,000 or less. that cost $55 billion for power that we don’t need. They B.C. Hydro was then required to sign on to 30- to removed the B.C. Utilities Commission from oversight. 35-year commitments to buy power from these IPPs, They used closure to do that here in this Legislature. And, from these companies, from these private river diver- third, they removed local governments’ ability to have a sion projects. At the same time, B.C. Hydro was split say in whether the developments were appropriate or not. into B.C. Hydro and B.C. Transmission. Of course, It’s actually incredibly shocking, but there we go. that didn’t work. It was a very expensive flop. Now B.C. [1835] Transmission is back in with B.C. Hydro, and the con- What other projects has the B.C. Utilities Commission tracts have proved to be absolutely disastrous financially. gone through and had its authority, its responsibility I am proud that the people in the Kootenays fought removed from it? Here we are. We’re looking at a bill the initiative. I have to say they mainly fought to try to that’s going to tinker with the B.C. Utilities Commission, protect their rivers in their area. But in the community but the real problem is that this government, the B.C. meetings that we had, people understood that the other Liberals, regularly uses legislation or regulation to make aspect of it was how disastrous it was financially for B.C. sure the B.C. Utilities Commission can’t look at what’s Hydro and for ratepayers. It is gratifying, in hindsight, to going on and say whether it’s a good idea. Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9879

Remember, the purpose of the B.C. Utilities Com­ N. Macdonald: Google it. It’s there. You can check in mission is to protect the interests of ratepayers. It is to a second. make sure that there is not political interference. Well, where are some of the other projects? Let’s see how Madame Speaker: Member. they’ve done. So we’ve got $55 billion — that mistake. I’ll thank the minister for his submission and ask the Pretty significant. member to be so guided. What about the northwest transmission line? Well, that’s a project that supplies, potentially, some mines up N. Macdonald: So $316 million was the B.C. Liberal in the northwest. Potentially, it is a project that one could promise. The actual number — $736 million. argue is a good investment. But that’s not an argument That’s the fact, Minister. You don’t like that? Well, then that was made in front of the B.C. Utilities Commission. you can walk away. Bye. Off you go. That’s one that was instead imposed. And it’s a project that is 85 percent over budget. Madame Speaker: Member.

Interjection. Hon. B. Bennett: Hon. Speaker, I’d like the member to retract that last statement as well. N. Macdonald: Well, the minister scoffs. The min- ister responsible scoffs. But before the election, it was Interjection. $395 million. Madame Speaker: Member. Interjection. N. Macdonald: You guys, you play by the rules, eh? N. Macdonald: Wow. Here is the minister. The minis- ter says: “He doesn’t have a clue.” Madame Speaker: Member, you will know that it is not customary to comment on the absence or presence Interjections. of members in this House. You know that.

Madame Speaker: Members. Members. N. Macdonald: Okay. Please continue. So $316 million was the B.C. Liberal promise. And $776 million…. N. Macdonald: The minister, in question period, when asked about the transmission line — which, before the Interjection. election, he said was going to be $395 million…. It is now going to be $716 million. Then he stood up in this House, Madame Speaker: Minister. and he told us: “Well, with these projections….” I would ask all members to direct their comments through the Chair. Interjection. Hon. B. Bennett: Hon. Speaker, I believe the rules of Madame Speaker: Minister. the House do not allow a member to make reference to another member either being present or not present in the Point of Order House. This member has made such a comment, and I’d like him to retract it. Hon. B. Bennett: Point of order, hon. Speaker. I’d like the member to retract his statement about something Madame Speaker: Member. that he said I said. N. Macdonald: The minister wants to make a speech. Interjection. You had the opportunity. You can get up, and you can say what you like. Hon. B. Bennett: Well, he doesn’t have evidence, be- cause I never said anything about the project. What the Madame Speaker: Columbia River–Revelstoke, I have member just said is incorrect, and I’d like him to retract it. given you the same advice. Please withdraw the comment.

Interjection. N. Macdonald: I’ll withdraw the comment.

Madame Speaker: Member. Member. Madame Speaker: Thank you. Please continue. 9880 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

Debate Continued Madame Speaker: Please take your seat. All comments will be directed through the Chair. N. Macdonald: Off you go. So $316 million was the promise — $395 million, $716 N. Macdonald: So the B.C. Liberals, through the million. A number of the transmission lines are also spe- Chair…. The member for aboriginal affairs says we just cifically prevented from being considered by the B.C. make numbers up, so let’s talk about some numbers Utilities Commission — $1 billion. made up. Let’s leave aside the numbers for Site C, which are made up. Interjection. Let’s talk about LNG — 100,000 jobs. Hey, that’s made up. If only it were so. No, there’s more fantasy. You see, N. Macdonald: Well, the minister says I’m a loser. Fine, fantasy jobs that you talk about are not the same as real fine, fine. Well, this…. Okay. jobs, like the 30,000 you’ve lost in forestry. Those were [1840] real jobs.

Interjection. Madame Speaker: Member, through the Chair.

Madame Speaker: Through the Chair, Member. N. Macdonald: Those were real jobs. Quesnel — shut- down mill. We’re talking about Houston losing a mill, Interjection. Canal Flats losing a mill. One hundred thousand jobs made up. A $100 billion fantasy prosperity fund. N. Macdonald: Yeah, let’s focus, then. Let’s focus. There’s a made-up number for you, Minister. B.C. Utilities Commission — $1 billion smart meter How about the LNG plant that is supposed to be up program. Well, I was never shown a business case for and running right now? What about “Debt-free B.C.,” the that. I was never shown a business case for the impos- $168 billion that the minister campaigned on to get rid of? ition of smart meters, and neither was the B.C. Utilities Madame Speaker: Member. Commission. In fact, the B.C. Utilities Commission was specifically prevented by the B.C. Liberals from evaluat- N. Macdonald: What about no sales tax? ing the investment of $1 billion — specifically removed from that oversight. Madame Speaker: Member, please align your com- That worked well. You’d think for $1 billion that there’d ments…. be a business case, and you’d think with the business case, if you had one, that you would be capable of going to the N. Macdonald: There are an awful lot of made-up B.C. Utilities Commission and putting it in front of that numbers that the B.C. Liberals have. commission. But that wasn’t the case. Now, Site C. Site C is another example — exempt from Madame Speaker: Columbia River–Revelstoke, align B.C. Utilities Commission oversight. Site C was origin- your comments to the content of the bill. ally…. What was the first sum? It was $6.6 billion? It was going to be $6.6 billion. It is now going to be $8.8 billion, N. Macdonald: Well, let’s talk about Site C — $6.6 and likely the final figure is closer to $13 billion. That billion, $8.8 billion and likely $13 billion. All of this is money is money that is yet to come from ratepayers. something that the B.C. Utilities Commission should The B.C. Utilities Commission…. have an opinion on.

Interjection. Interjection.

N. Macdonald: The member for aboriginal affairs…. N. Macdonald: Well, the minister has a lot to say — the minister responsible for this file. He didn’t choose to say it Interjections. in his speech, and no matter what he says about me, wheth- er he calls me a loser or not, I always know that he had Madame Speaker: Member, please take your seat. worse to say about Premier Gordon Campbell. He had a lot more to say about Gordon Campbell. It was a lot worse. N. Macdonald: The member for aboriginal affairs…. So whatever you say, it doesn’t approach “that bad man.”

Madame Speaker: Please take your seat, Member. Madame Speaker: Through the Chair, Member.

N. Macdonald: Okay. Well, we’ll get…. N. Macdonald: I’d be happy to. Wednesday, October 28, 2015 British Columbia Debates 9881

The B.C. Utilities Commission, then, is just an example Interjection. of what is needed to make sure that we don’t drift into more mistakes. One might think that it would be smart to do due N. Macdonald: Why don’t you explain to us how diligence on an investment of billions and billions of dollars much…? and to use an agency that we are paying for that is tasked with doing that work. But the B.C. Liberals think otherwise. Madame Speaker: Through the Chair, Member. [1845] This miscellaneous statutes act is generally not voted N. Macdonald: Ah, through the Chair. Well, we were against at second reading. We usually look at whether the having an interesting conversation, but I’ll come back to specifics of the bill make sense or not. the Chair as we approach the end of the day. The B.C. Utilities Commission has a job to do. If given Interjections. the chance to do the job, it would save money. It would have saved $55 billion over 30 years. That’s a significant N. Macdonald: Well, I can see we’ve got a raucous sum. It would have asked questions on transmission lines, group here on what was otherwise a very dull day — rau- questions that would make sense for those interested in cous group. As a teacher…. At the end of a long day, it the ratepayers to ask. It would have made sure that we often happens, and it’s happened here again. didn’t step into the number of mistakes that we have The specifics are pretty clear. This bill makes minor stepped into again and again. changes to the B.C. Utilities Commission. What I have What’s the government’s intention going forward? talked about is example after example that represent mas- Have they learned their lesson? Their intention is to side- sive sums for ratepayers, that are the reason that we see step the B.C. Utilities Commission again and again, and record levels of increases in costs to ratepayers. People you have to ask yourself: why do they do it? They do it just have to look at their bills, and they see them go up, for a very specific reason. They do it because it serves a and when they are dealing with the reality of having to political interest, a narrow political interest, and whether pay more for these Hydro prices, they need to ask them- they waste $12 billion or they don’t waste $12 billion, it’s selves the question: are the decisions that government has all the same to them. made reasonable decisions? Well, I note the hour, and with that, I move adjourn- There was every opportunity for government to check ment of the debate for today and suggest that we gather and make sure that they were reasonable decisions. They and continue this debate in the future, when members could have gone to a body that exists in legislation to pre- are calm and we can have a more rational debate. vent governments from playing games. It is absolutely unbelievable to me that instead of doing that, this gov- Madame Speaker: There is time remaining. I’ll recog- ernment chose to go a different direction. They chose nize the Minister of Energy and Mines. instead to go in a direction of side-stepping the B.C. [1850] Utilities Commission and to go instead to a place where they are going to make decisions that turn out to be in- Hon. B. Bennett: A couple of quick things. First of credibly poor decisions. all, it’s well known that the NDP does not support clean Let’s just go back over the list. The IPP fiasco: $55 bil- energy in this province. As it happens, next week is the lion over the next 30 to 35 years — $55 billion dollars. annual general meeting of the Clean Energy Association The B.C. Utilities Commission would have said that there of British Columbia. I’ll be speaking there — I’m their are better things to do than to buy energy, rather than…. keynote speaker — and I will be sure to tell all 285 people who are there at the clean energy conference that, once Interjections. again, the NDP was in the House slagging their indus- try. Good for you. N. Macdonald: Well, you know what I’m positive of? Now, secondly, on this side of the House…. You’ve I’m positive that this is a government that is bereft of got to listen to this. In 1998, the NDP government intro- ideas. I’m positive that this is a government that doesn’t duced a miscellaneous statutes amendment act, No. 3, know that it is supposed to keep records. I am positive that provided a process for exempting new power sup- of that. I am positive that we can do better if we use the ply contracts from the BCUC. So what the member for B.C. Utilities Commission. Columbia River–Revelstoke just stood up and talked about for half an hour, they actually were doing in the Interjections. 1990s. I mentioned this about a month ago here in the House when I was talking about the Site C motion. N. Macdonald: Well, it’s a feisty group, isn’t it? There’s I don’t mean to pick on the member from Coquitlam. an awful lot here that they don’t like to hear. There’s an He happened to be the Energy Minister at the time. Here’s awful lot here that they don’t like to see. what the Vancouver Sun said about this. They said: “The 9882 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 28, 2015

amendments enable the minister to exempt virtually any I just wanted to get a few words in on this before we energy supply contract from independent and public re- retire for the day. view.” So it seems like there may be some hypocrisy in- volved with recent comments made by the opposition. Hon. B. Bennett moved adjournment of debate. The Minister of Energy at the time — he was responsible for B.C. Hydro — said that these amendments would re- Motion approved. duce red tape. I don’t know why the member for Columbia River– Hon. T. Lake: I hesitantly move adjournment, because Revelstoke, who is a very…. He is not a loser, and I’m it’s been so much fun here this afternoon. But I do move sorry that I said that. He is a good man. I’m sorry that I adjournment for the day. said that. I apologize and withdraw the comment. But he certainly was wrong about everything that he said. When you think about the fact that B.C. gets 25 per- Hon. T. Lake moved adjournment of the House. cent of its electricity from the clean energy industry…. Now, we get 25 percent of our electricity from the clean Motion approved. energy industry, and the member for Columbia River– Revelstoke said: “Well, if we weren’t buying that electri- Madame Speaker: This House, at its rising, stands ad- city, it wouldn’t cost us anything.” Where does he think journed until 10 a.m. tomorrow morning. we would get that electricity from? We would have to build new generation. It’s NDP economics. It’s NDP math. The House adjourned at 6:53 p.m. Hansard Reporting Services

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