LAW IN ORDER PTY LIMITED ACN 086 329 044
T: 1300 004 667 W: www.lawinorder.com.au
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
MR B. WALKER SC, Commissioner
IN THE MATTER OF A SPECIAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO THE RUBY PRINCESS
SYDNEY
09.30 AM, MONDAY, 22 JUNE 2020
(Continued from 19 June 2020)
DAY 15
MR R. BEASLEY SC and MR N. KIRBY appear as counsel assisting the Commission MR D. McLURE SC appears with MR G. O’MAHONEY for Princess Cruise Lines Ltd and Carnival plc t/a Carnival Australia MS G. FURNESS SC appears with MS K. LINDEMAN for the Health Administration Corporation MS J. FRANCIS appears for the Commissioner of Police MS B. BYRNES appears for the International Transport Workers’ Federation, the Maritime Union of Australia, the Australian Institute of Marine Powered Engineers and the Australian Maritime Officers Union
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1689
MR BEASLEY: Commissioner, before we get Ms Whittemore, who is in the virtual waiting room, I will tender a statement of Shaun Devitt, dated 19 June 2020. Mr Devitt is not required to give oral evidence. That is Exhibit number 68.
5 EXHIBIT #68 - STATEMENT BY MR SHAUN DEVITT, DATED 19.06.20
COMMISSIONER: Have the represented parties.... 10 MR BEASLEY: I'm sure it's been circulated to everyone. I'll just ask Mr McLure.
COMMISSIONER: Has anybody indicated a desire to ask Mr Devitt questions?
15 MR BEASLEY: I also have to tender, and I understand it is also proposed to tender the audio of this, the recording of the telephone conversation between Steve Howieson and Cameron Butchart that took place on the evening of 18 March 2020. It is that part of --- it is that recording where there was some uncertainty as to what words were used, in particular something to do with an upper ear infection, which 20 I think the document I'm tendering, which I will call "Recording of telephone conversation between Steve Howieson, VTS Manager and Cameron Butchart, Port Services Manager, 18 March 2020 at approximately 10.44 pm" and I will tender with it as part of the one Exhibit the recording of that telephone conversation.
25 COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: That is Exhibit 69.
30 EXHIBIT #69 - RECORDING OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION BETWEEN STEVE HOWIESON, VTS MANAGER AND CAMERON BUTCHART, PORT SERVICES MANAGER, DATED 18.03.2018 AT APPROXIMATELY 10.44 PM WITH THE RECORDING OF THAT TELEPHONE CONVERSATION 35
MR BEASLEY: I can advise the parties, although I can't tender it now, but the Commission has received a statement from Victorian Health regarding the Golden Princess. The reason I can't tender that at the moment is whilst no claim is made for 40 privilege in relation to any documents, there is a claim that will have to go through made by Victorian Health for non-publication orders in relation to some of the documents you summonsed from them.
I can tell my friends in brief that in relation to the Golden Princess, after the ship left 45 on 10 March for New Zealand, Victorian Health identified two persons onboard who had been close contacts with people who were confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the United States. They thereafter ascertained that there were 24 people on the same
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1690
flight from Los Angeles to Melbourne that had then got on the Golden Princess. A decision was made when that ship came back into --- came back to Melbourne --- sailed back to Melbourne on 18 March as to whether or not pratique would be granted. A decision was made not to grant pratique and instead to send on people 5 from Victorian Health onto the ship in the early hours of the morning of 19 March to swab all those onboard who had been placed in quarantine, which was about 30 persons onboard, and that pratique would not be granted until test results came back.
Those test results came back at about 4 pm that day and all results were negative. At 10 that point, pratique was granted. There is some discussions between what Victorian Health have described as Carnival Australia. I know I was told to use the term "Princess Cruise Lines" last Friday, but Victorian Health records a couple of conversations with senior people at Carnival Australia about their decision not to grant pratique. I won't expand upon that further. Obviously these documents will be 15 circulated to the interested parties and they will obviously be given an opportunity to respond.
Just bear with me one second, Commissioner. That's all the tenders for this morning.
20 Sorry, there is another transcript to tender between Mr Howieson and Dr Ilse von Watzdorf also recording this conversation I will also tender. The conversation took place on 19 March 2020 at approximately 12.06 am. I tender the transcript of that telephone conversation and also the audio recording of it, which will be Exhibit 70.
25 EXHIBIT #70 - TRANSCRIPT OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN MR HOWIESON AND DR ILSE VON WATZDORF DATED 19.03.20 AT APPROXIMATELY 12.06 AM WITH AUDIO RECORDING
30 MR BEASLEY: Now I think we are ready to have the witness, Mrs Whittemore, from California. Hello, Mrs Whittemore. Can you hear me?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, I can. 35 MR BEASLEY: My name is Richard Beasley. I'm one of the counsel assisting this Special Commission. Can you still hear me?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes. 40 MR BEASLEY: I just want to let you know, just before you are sworn to give your evidence, I want to let you know who else is in the room with me because you may not be able to see them. The Commissioner for this Inquiry is Mr Bret Walker. He's here. 45 COMMISSIONER: Good morning from Australia, Mrs Whittemore.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1691
MS WHITTEMORE: Good morning.
MR BEASLEY: There are also some lawyers in the room representing the NSW Health Department, the NSW Police, and Princess Cruise Lines. I won't identify 5 them by name at the moment. If they seek leave to ask you a question, they will no doubt do that. Do you understand me?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, I do.
10 MR BEASLEY: Great. Thank you.
I will have you sworn in to give your evidence, please.
15 JILL WHITTEMORE, SWORN [9.55 AM]
EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC
20 MR BEASLEY: You gave a statement to the NSW Police Force, do you recall that, dated 28 April 2020?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, I do. 25 MR BEASLEY: Do you have that statement with you?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, I do.
30 MR BEASLEY: And it is true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and recollection?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
35 MR BEASLEY: Thank you.
You travelled on the Ruby Princess with, I think, your mother-in-law and your husband's maternal grandparents, is that right?
40 MS WHITTEMORE: It was my mother ---
MR BEASLEY: Your mother ---
MS WHITTEMORE: My mother-in-law --- 45 MR BEASLEY: Your mother-in-law? Is that Cheryl?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1692 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS WHITTEMORE: And her parents.
MR BEASLEY: Her parents; is that Paul and Shirley?
5 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And you flew into Australia on the morning that the cruise was leaving for New Zealand, flew in from San Francisco; is that right?
10 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And there was a delay in boarding the ship?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct. 15 MR BEASLEY: Were you told why the ship had been delayed embarking passengers?
MS WHITTEMORE: No. 20 MR BEASLEY: No one was sent a text message giving you any information about that?
MS WHITTEMORE: In my party, no, no one received a text message. 25 MR BEASLEY: And no one from either --- no one from the cruise line, for example, explained to you what the hold-up had been?
MS WHITTEMORE: No. The only thing, we had gone and asked and they said that 30 they were doing a deep clean.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Who did you ask?
MS WHITTEMORE: One of the attendants, or one of the Princess --- 35 MR BEASLEY: All right. Did you wait around the Overseas Passenger Terminal or did you go off and get something to eat?
MS WHITTEMORE: We did go get something to eat. We walked over to the Opera 40 House and we also walked through the craft fair.
MR BEASLEY: All right.
When you got on the ship, I understand you did the usual things on the ship; you 45 went to various shows with your travel companions?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1693 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: And you ate at various restaurants on the ship?
MS WHITTEMORE: Pardon me? 5 MR BEASLEY: You ate at various restaurants on the ship?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes. Mostly the Horizon buffet and two nights at the sit-down dining. 10 MR BEASLEY: Okay. The buffet is obviously where you go and get your own food; is that right?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct. 15 MR BEASLEY: And did that change at any stage during the cruise, that they had crew giving you the food towards the end of the cruise?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes. 20 MR BEASLEY: Were you told why that change had taken place?
MS WHITTEMORE: No.
25 MR BEASLEY: Every time you went to have your meals, were crew reminding you to use hand sanitiser and ---
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes. And that is standard. I've been on other cruises and they've had that also. 30 MR BEASLEY: In other words, in terms of your previous experience on cruises, there was nothing unusual with that?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct. 35 MR BEASLEY: I think the cruise stopped at four ports: Dunedin on 12 March, Akaroa on 13 March, Wellington the 14th and Napier the 15th. Don't get too concerned about the dates, but as I understand it you and your travelling companions got off board at each of those ports? 40 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And you did various tours at each of those cities?
45 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: A couple of times in your statement you've said you caught a bus to
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1694 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
go to a museum or into Christchurch. Were they big buses or minibuses?
MS WHITTEMORE: No, they were the large buses.
5 MR BEASLEY: I'm just wondering whether at any stage during the course of the cruise you recall any announcements being made over the PA system, if any passengers had a cough or a sore throat or a fever, that they should attend the medical centre; do you remember any announcements like that?
10 MS WHITTEMORE: No, I do not.
MR BEASLEY: Did you, or any of your travelling companions to your knowledge, get a note under the door that you should attend the medical clinic if you were feeling unwell and had those sorts of symptoms like a sore throat or a cough? 15 MS WHITTEMORE: I do not recall, no.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Did you get any documentation before the cruise ended from the Australian Government or from Australian Border Force --- 20 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: --- or from the ship advising you that when you got back to port in Sydney you had to self-isolate for 14 days? 25 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Was that before you got off the ship?
30 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, it was.
MR BEASLEY: And is your memory that it was a document that had been prepared by the Australian Government or was it a document that had been prepared by the cruise line? 35 MS WHITTEMORE: It was by the Australian Government.
MR BEASLEY: Did it have any information in it to you --- given that you --- you had a flight booked for the afternoon, I think, of 19 March to get back to San 40 Francisco. Did it have any information about what people should do if they had an international flight after they got off the ship?
MS WHITTEMORE: It just said that we should go back and self-isolate at home.
45 MR BEASLEY: Did the ship make any announcements, were there any announcements over the PA about what people should do if they had connecting travel arrangements when the ship got back to Sydney, that you recall?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1695 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS WHITTEMORE: Not that I recall, no.
MR BEASLEY: You've mentioned in your statement that there was a St Patrick's 5 Day party onboard the ship?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Could you explain to the Commissioner what that involved? 10 MS WHITTEMORE: They had a party at the lounge on 17 March with an Irish band. So they had had a regular show at the Princess Theatre and then at the lounge and that night they had a large party.
15 MR BEASLEY: When you say "the lounge”; can you give us an idea about how big that room is and how many people were at that party?
MS WHITTEMORE: It is --- it is a fairly large lounge, but it was --- it was full. People were sitting really close together. I would say probably like four --- maybe 20 400 people were in there.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Was that something --- you obviously went to it with your travelling companions?
25 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes. With my mother-in-law, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Yes, okay. On 19 March, the morning of 19 March when you were about to disembark the ship, you told us in the statement that you went to the Wheelhouse Bar, that's where you were told to go? 30 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Can you give us some idea about how big that bar is and how many people were there to disembark in the one group? 35 MS WHITTEMORE: I would say probably less than 100 people were there.
MR BEASLEY: And the disembarkation process was fairly swift; is that right?
40 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Did you have to show your passport to anyone when you got off the ship?
45 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Was that to an Australian Customs or Border Force official?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1696 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And you handed in an immigration card as well, is that right? 5 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: You went straight from the passenger terminal to the airport after you disembarked; is that right? 10 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, took a bus to the airport.
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, a bus, you said? Was that a large coach or a minibus?
15 MS WHITTEMORE: No, it was a large coach.
MR BEASLEY: During the time of the cruise, up until this point, had you felt quite well? You didn't have any symptoms of illness?
20 COMMISSIONER: Is it frozen?
MR BEASLEY: It is frozen.
MS WHITTEMORE: I'm sorry --- 25 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, yes. I think we cut out. I will just apologise in advance. This will happen no doubt from time to time where we can't hear each other. What I was asking you was up until the time you disembarked and got on the coach ready to go back to the airport, you had felt quite well throughout the course of the cruise; 30 is that right?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And everyone in your party, none of them had complained of 35 having any symptoms of illness?
MS WHITTEMORE: No.
MR BEASLEY: Did you notice --- did anyone appear to be unwell on the bus or 40 were they wearing masks, for example?
MS WHITTEMORE: No one was wearing masks ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we lost that answer, Mrs Whittemore. I will break it up into 45 two questions: did you notice anyone wearing masks on the bus?
MS WHITTEMORE: No.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1697 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: Did you notice anyone on the ship wearing masks at any time?
MS WHITTEMORE: No. 5 MR BEASLEY: Had there ever been any announcements over the cruise PA or were you given any documents by the cruise line concerning the disease we're calling COVID-19?
10 MS WHITTEMORE: I don't recall. I know that there was some information given but I don't have it with me. I think it was towards the end of the cruise when we were getting the stuff from the Australian Government.
MR BEASLEY: Do you think that might have been --- you might have been given 15 that information to explain why the cruise had been cut short and the ship had to get back to Australia?
MS WHITTEMORE: I believe so.
20 MR BEASLEY: Other than that, were there any on-board announcements in relation to COVID-19 that you recall?
MS WHITTEMORE: (inaudible)
25 MR BEASLEY: I think the answer was "no" if I'm lip reading.
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct. It was no. Yes, no.
MR BEASLEY: You and your travelling companions had a flight from Sydney to 30 San Francisco that afternoon of 19 March?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct. The 19th.
MR BEASLEY: Yes, and I think when you got back to San Francisco you then 35 caught --- in your statement it says you caught a bus to your cars?
MS WHITTEMORE: It was just a small shuttle ---
MR BEASLEY: And that was --- you had your cars parked somewhere in a car 40 park, did you?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: And then did you all drive home together or each in individual 45 cars?
MS WHITTEMORE: Together.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1698 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: Some time shortly after you got back home to California, I understand you received an email from the NSW Government saying that there had been some confirmed cases of COVID-19 on the ship and you were considered 5 a close contact?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes. It was the night of the 19th.
MR BEASLEY: At that stage, though, you still felt --- you didn't feel unwell? 10 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And it wasn't until I think --- I think this is your time, early morning on 21 March, you started to feel unwell and had some aches and a fever? 15 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Is that right?
20 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: When were you first told that any of your travelling companions were also feeling unwell?
25 MS WHITTEMORE: The next day.
MR BEASLEY: So you still --- the next day on the 22nd you still had symptoms of aches and a fever; correct?
30 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Were you feeling worse, again?
MS WHITTEMORE: The day of the 21st I pretty much slept all day. 35 MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MS WHITTEMORE: The next day I was tired, still body aches, a low-grade fever.
40 MR BEASLEY: All right. And was it that day that you were told either by Paul or Shirley or both of them that they felt unwell too?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
45 MR BEASLEY: And I think on the 24th you went to get a test done for COVID?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes. On the 24th I went.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1699 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, was that at a local hospital?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, it was. 5 MR BEASLEY: And two days later you were told you had the disease?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
10 MR BEASLEY: And Paul and Shirley independently were tested for it and they also tested positive?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
15 MR BEASLEY: Had you received any further information from NSW Health during that period?
MS WHITTEMORE: I received an email on the 21st from Princess.
20 MR BEASLEY: What did that email tell you?
MS WHITTEMORE: It was just basically saying that people had tested positive.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Did it provide any instructions for you to do anything, or for 25 the recipients of the email to do anything?
MS WHITTEMORE: It had some links, just to give us more information on COVID-19.
30 MR BEASLEY: Is that email, can I ask you this, is it addressed:
Dear Ruby Princess passenger, We have been advised of several confirmed COVID-19 coronavirus cases on the Ruby Princess. 35 Is that how it starts?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
40 MR BEASLEY: And it had some links to NSW Health?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Just dealing with yourself, did you ever have to stay --- you didn't 45 have to stay in hospital?
MS WHITTEMORE: No, I did not.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1700 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: But you were put in, you've described it as "quarantine"; does that mean you weren't allowed to leave your house until you were given the all-clear?
5 MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And I know, unfortunately, and I'm sorry to raise this, but Paul and Shirley were both admitted to hospital and they died about a week later, within a day of each other; correct? 10 MS WHITTEMORE: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: In terms of your own condition, I know you were required to quarantine for about 14 days and then your doctor extended that for another 14 days; 15 is that right?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And how are you feeling now? Have you fully recovered? 20 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, I have recovered.
MR BEASLEY: Have you had a test that has been confirmed negative, or you are just symptom-free for a long time? 25 MS WHITTEMORE: Actually, I was retested on the (inaudible) and I got the results back May 6th and I was ---
MR BEASLEY: I thought I'd lip-read the word "positive" then, but we missed it on 30 the audio. After May 6th you had another test and what happened?
MS WHITTEMORE: On May 1st, I was retested. On May 6th, it was deemed positive.
35 MR BEASLEY: Positive on 6 May?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, the swab was taken 1 May, you were told on 6 May that it 40 was positive?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Have you had a subsequent test to the 6 May test? 45 MS WHITTEMORE: No, I have not. I was told that the 1 May test was a false positive.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1701 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: A false positive?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, and I was not contagious and it was dying off in my 5 system.
MR BEASLEY: Who told you it was a false positive?
MS WHITTEMORE: The Public Health Department and also my doctor's office. 10 MR BEASLEY: That's the Public Health Department of California, is it?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct.
15 MR BEASLEY: And you feel well now; you don't have any of the symptoms you had of the disease?
MS WHITTEMORE: Correct. I had retested due to I was going to give blood.
20 MR BEASLEY: I see. Oh, you were going to make a blood donation so you wanted to get retested; is that right?
MS WHITTEMORE: Yes, it was requested.
25 MR BEASLEY: Mrs Whittemore, is there anything that in terms of the Commissioner's Terms of Reference of inquiring about decision-making from NSW Health or the cruise line concerning this cruise from 8 to 19 March, is there anything you think is of relevance for the Commissioner that I haven't asked you about that you would like to let us know? 30 MS WHITTEMORE: No, not at this time.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Are you content for me to tender as an Exhibit in this Inquiry the statement you gave to the NSW Police? 35 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: All right. I will tender that statement of Jill Whittemore to the NSW Police Force dated 28 April 2020, Exhibit 71. 40
EXHIBIT #71 - STATEMENT OF JILL WHITTEMORE TO NSW POLICE FORCE DATED 28.04.2020
45 MR BEASLEY: Mrs Whittemore, thank you for attending to my questions. The Commissioner may want to ask you a question or two and maybe one of the other
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1702 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
lawyers here will apply to seek leave to ask you a question, but that's all I have for you. Thank you very much.
MS WHITTEMORE: All right. Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER: Mrs Whittemore, my sympathies for the loss of Mr and Mrs Gregory.
MS WHITTEMORE: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER: After your testing positive, did anyone from Australia ever communicate with you to find out about your close contacts during the cruise?
MS WHITTEMORE: No. 15 COMMISSIONER: And while you were on the cruise, did you ever have occasion to visit the medical centre on the ship?
MS WHITTEMORE: No. 20 COMMISSIONER: Did you and your companions on the ship ever discuss with each other the possibility of going to the medical centre if you felt ill?
MS WHITTEMORE: None of us ever felt ill, so --- but we all knew that if we were 25 to get ill, we would go there.
COMMISSIONER: And had there been, on that cruise itself, had there been announcements by the ship to the passengers that the medical centre was available if you needed it? 30 MS WHITTEMORE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER: And had those announcements said anything about the attendance at the medical centre being free of charge if it was for respiratory 35 symptoms?
MS WHITTEMORE: No.
COMMISSIONER: Did you ever hear anything to that effect? 40 MS WHITTEMORE: No, I did not.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much. Those are all my questions. I just want to ask whether anybody else would like to ask questions? The answer is no. Thank 45 you very much for your assistance. I'm obliged for your trouble. I know the time difference makes it awkward, and I wish you all the very best.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1703 MS J. WHITTEMORE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS WHITTEMORE: All right. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
5 MR BEASLEY: Thank you.
THE WITNESS WITHDREW [10.18 AM]
10 COMMISSIONER: What is the timing?
MR BEASLEY: We have Mr Wright, who is the next in the waiting room. There he is. Mr Wright, can you hear me? 15 MR WRIGHT: I can, yes.
MR BEASLEY: It is Richard Beasley again. We did speak once before last week.
20 MR WRIGHT: Yes, we did, Richard.
MR BEASLEY: Just before you are sworn in to give your evidence, Mr Wright, I will let you know who is in the room. Obviously, the Commissioner for the Commission, Mr Walker, is here. 25 COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Mr Wright.
MR WRIGHT: How are you?
30 COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: And there are some lawyers from NSW Health, from Princess Cruise Lines and the NSW Police. I won't list who they are because they will no doubt do that if they want to ask you a question as well. 35 MR WRIGHT: Okay, that's fine.
MR BEASLEY: I will just get you sworn in.
40 WILLIAM JOHN WRIGHT, SWORN [10.19 AM]
EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC 45
MR BEASLEY: Can you give the Commissioner your full name, Mr Wright?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1704 MR W. WRIGHT XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR WRIGHT: William John Wright.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. And you have, in relation to the cruise you took on the 5 Ruby Princess, given the NSW Police Force a statement dated 15 April 2020, that you signed?
MR WRIGHT: (inaudible)
10 MR BEASLEY: Unfortunately you dropped out when you answered my question. Can you say what I think was "yes", again.
MR WRIGHT: Yes.
15 MR BEASLEY: Thank you. Do you have that statement with you?
MR WRIGHT: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Is it true to the best of your information and belief? 20 MR WRIGHT: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: All right.
25 Mr Wright, you went on the cruise on the Ruby Princess between 8 and 19 March in a travelling group of six, is that right? You went with your wife, your friends, Mr and Mrs Karpik and another couple?
MR WRIGHT: Yes, there was another lady who was a friend of the Jones from 30 Queensland as well.
MR BEASLEY: Did you tend to do things together either onboard or off the ship as a group of seven, or did you do your own things?
35 MR WRIGHT: We did our --- evening meal and when we went off the ship we usually went off together, but we then did our own thing most of the time as well.
MR BEASLEY: All right. I understand before getting on the ship there was a delay --- 40 MR WRIGHT: Yes, there was.
MR BEASLEY: --- for several hours. Were you told a reason for that delay?
45 MR WRIGHT: The reason was the New South Wales --- they were waiting for clearance from New South Wales Health.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1705 MR W. WRIGHT XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: Was that information conveyed to you in a text message?
MR WRIGHT: I don't believe so, but it was conveyed either over the loudspeaker or by one of the staff who were attending on the day. 5 MR BEASLEY: I understand it was fairly crowded at the passenger terminal before people got onboard?
MR WRIGHT: It was fairly crowded, yes. 10 MR BEASLEY: I understand you've done some cruising before this, including you had taken a cruise on the Ruby Princess itself once before; is that right?
MR WRIGHT: Yes. 15 MR BEASLEY: So you were generally familiar with the ship as a result of that?
MR WRIGHT: Yeah, we've travelled with Princess Cruises most of the time, and --- on all occasions actually, so most of the ships are reasonably similar. So we are 20 reasonably familiar with them.
MR BEASLEY: You explained in your statement that most nights before dinner you had a drink in what is called the Crooners Bar?
25 MR WRIGHT: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Can you tell the Commissioner what size that is? Is it a huge bar or is it an intimate bar? What is the size of it?
30 MR WRIGHT: It would probably hold up to about 50 people.
MR BEASLEY: Was it generally full each night you went there?
MR WRIGHT: Generally, yes. It was one of the popular bars. It was usually fairly 35 full, yes.
MR BEASLEY: When you had dinner, you went to different restaurants onboard the ship? You went some nights to the buffet dinner and some nights to restaurants where you might order your meals from the table? 40 MR WRIGHT: No, we went to the restaurants every night.
MR BEASLEY: Yes, but were they different restaurants?
45 MR WRIGHT: No, the same restaurant we went to every night.
MR BEASLEY: Was that a restaurant where you order your meal through a crew
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1706 MR W. WRIGHT XN MR BEASLEY SC
member or was it a buffet-style restaurant?
MR WRIGHT: No, no, through a crew member. It was a sit down.
5 COMMISSIONER: It was table service?
MR WRIGHT: Table service, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Was that all seven of you at the one table? 10 MR WRIGHT: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Does that mean that there was --- you only ate within your group?
15 MR WRIGHT: There was seven within our group.
MR BEASLEY: Was anyone else on the table?
MR WRIGHT: No. 20 MR BEASLEY: All right. Thank you.
I understand you were fairly regularly or always reminded to use hand sanitiser before eating? 25 MR WRIGHT: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Is that consistent with your experience on previous cruises?
30 MR WRIGHT: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: I'm just wondering, was --- you, I assume, would have been aware about news of COVID-19 before you got on the ship?
35 MR WRIGHT: Yes, we were aware of it, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Was there any --- did you notice any changes in relation to just generally how the ship operated? Any, for example, extra cleaning or extra safety precautions or precautions regarding hygiene? 40 MR WRIGHT: Not really.
MR BEASLEY: All right. The ship --- I think you've probably already told us this - -- but at each port that the ship stopped at in New Zealand you and your travelling 45 companions disembarked and did something on shore?
MR WRIGHT: That's correct, yes.
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MR BEASLEY: So that was from Dunedin on 12 March through to Napier on 15 March, you got out at each town and I think you did your own private tours; is that right? 5 MR WRIGHT: We did a couple of private tours. Some of them were just mostly my wife and myself did the tours and sometimes with the --- with a couple of the others, but generally speaking most of the tours we did was just my wife and myself.
10 MR BEASLEY: Does that mean it was just you, your wife and a guide, perhaps?
MR WRIGHT: No guides.
MR BEASLEY: I see, okay, you just did it yourselves. 15 MR WRIGHT: With the driver of the bus, obviously ---
MR BEASLEY: I see. Sorry, to get around, you had to get a coach?
20 MR WRIGHT: Yes, if we wanted to do a tour of the area, we got a coach, yes. Otherwise we --- and caught a bus to the location.
MR BEASLEY: Okay. Is this a big bus, like a coach or a minibus?
25 MR WRIGHT: Some were minibuses, but --- and some were coaches, yes.
MR BEASLEY: And at the towns where you got off in New Zealand, did you do things like also going to shops or cafes, that sort of thing?
30 MR WRIGHT: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: One of your travelling companions, Mr Karpik, became unwell, you've said in your statement, about the middle of the cruise?
35 MR WRIGHT: Yes, he started feeling a bit unwell when we were I think it was in Wellington. But he was --- he wasn't --- he was okay at that stage, but by the time we got to --- I think it was the ship at Napier and he started walking down the street and he couldn't --- he said, "Look, I've got to go back". And him and Mr Jones, one of our companions, they went back to the ship. They were probably only off the ship 40 for about half an hour on that day. From there on, we basically didn't see Mr Karpik because he had gone to the doctors and he was ---
MR BEASLEY: I'm sorry, Mr Wright, we missed some of that answer because of the line breaking up. 45 MR WRIGHT: Okay.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1708 MR W. WRIGHT XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: I apologise for that, it will happen from time to time. It seems to be happening a little more regularly with you at the moment than some of the others. We'll just persist.
5 Wellington was 14 March. That is your memory when Mr Karpik first started to complain that he was feeling unwell; is that right?
MR WRIGHT: Yes, at Wellington, yes. He joined us at Wellington, he did the walks with us through the streets. We did a bit of a tour of Wellington and --- but he 10 said that he wasn't feeling the best. And that evening he didn't seem too well at the restaurant.
MR BEASLEY: Did he tell you what his symptoms were or did you notice anything? 15 MR WRIGHT: I didn't notice anything. I noticed that he was quiet and he said he just wasn't feeling the best.
MR BEASLEY: Right. The next day the ship went to Napier. He got off the ship 20 and went to Napier with you?
MR WRIGHT: He did. And that's when he only --- he probably walked down the street and he only lasted probably 15 minutes to half an hour and said, "Look, I've got to go back to the ship. I'm not feeling well", and one of our other companions, 25 Mr Jones, went back with him.
MR BEASLEY: Did he --- when he said in Napier that he's got to go back to the ship, he's not feeling well, did he describe precisely what his symptoms were to you or just said that he wasn't well? 30 MR WRIGHT: No, he didn't describe his symptoms.
MR BEASLEY: Did he appear to have a flu? Was he coughing at all or ---
35 MR WRIGHT: I didn't notice that, no.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Did you know whether or not he'd gone to the medical clinic at that stage?
40 MR WRIGHT: No, I couldn't tell you that. But he obviously went to the medical clinic I think that day, or later on that day, and --- because he was then --- didn't come to dinner that night. He had to --- he was diagnosed with influenza A, his wife told us, and that he had to isolate in the room.
45 MR BEASLEY: You think that was the night of 15 March his wife told you he had been diagnosed with flu?
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MR WRIGHT: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Had she said she'd been to the medical clinic with him?
5 MR WRIGHT: I can't recall whether she had, but I believe she would have because he is partially blind.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Okay.
10 MR WRIGHT: He's classified as legally blind.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Did she tell you that he had had a flu test?
MR WRIGHT: No. She didn't tell me that and I didn't ask that question. 15 MR BEASLEY: Did she tell you whether or not he'd been swabbed for a COVID-19 test?
MR WRIGHT: (inaudible) 20 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, Mr Wright, you will have to give that answer again, we missed it.
MR WRIGHT: There was no mention of COVID-19. 25 MR BEASLEY: All right. You also, towards the end of the cruise, I think you'd had a fairly --- you'd had the same waiter each night you had gone to the restaurant, is that right, and then it changed?
30 MR WRIGHT: Yes, we --- except towards the last two or three days we had a different waiter as the other one, I believe, was sick.
MR BEASLEY: When you say you believe he was sick, someone told you that from the crew, did they? 35 MR WRIGHT: We asked the question and we were told that he wasn't feeling well, and we didn't see him again. I think that was about --- oh, would have been two or three nights before the end of the cruise.
40 MR BEASLEY: All right. When he was your waiter, had he appeared unwell in any way?
MR WRIGHT: No.
45 MR BEASLEY: All right. Do you recall at any stage during the cruise whether any announcements were made over the ship's PA advising people or asking people that if they had a cough or a sore throat or a fever they should go to the medical clinic?
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MR WRIGHT: Look, I'm not sure of that. I don't believe --- I won't just --- I won't say, if it did happen, I'm not 100 per cent certain.
5 MR BEASLEY: You don't recall it?
MR WRIGHT: No.
MR BEASLEY: Just wondering, in your previous cruises, whether there is any 10 announcements like that, that you had ever noticed?
MR WRIGHT: No, never noticed them previously either.
MR BEASLEY: In this cruise did you ever get a note under the door from the 15 Princess Cruise Line saying something similar, that is, if you are suffering from a cough or a sore throat or a fever, you should go to the medical clinic?
MR WRIGHT: No, not to my knowledge.
20 MR BEASLEY: Did you get a note, though, from the cruise --- sorry, did you get a note put under your door or given to you from the Australian Government about requirements to self-isolate when you got back to Sydney?
MR WRIGHT: No. 25 MR BEASLEY: Did the ship make any announcements during the last couple of days of the cruise or when it was announced that the ship was having to go back to Sydney early that you had to self-isolate at home for 14 days when you got back home? 30 MR WRIGHT: Not to my knowledge.
MR BEASLEY: The morning that the ship arrived back in Sydney, I understand was the first time you felt unwell, that is, the morning of 19 March? 35 MR WRIGHT: That's correct. I woke up with a runny nose and I was sneezing, yes.
MR BEASLEY: And your wife told you that she felt unwell too?
40 MR WRIGHT: Sorry?
MR BEASLEY: Did your wife tell you she felt unwell too?
MR WRIGHT: No, my wife had no symptoms whatsoever. 45 MR BEASLEY: All right. She was fine on the 19th, was she?
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MR WRIGHT: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: You were told to go to the Explorers Lounge to assemble in order to disembark; is that right? 5 MR WRIGHT: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: And is that --- I think all seven of you went to the Explorers Lounge to disembark, so that was the first time you had seen Mr Karpik for a while? 10 MR WRIGHT: I hadn't seen him for --- since Napier; correct. That was I think on the 15th.
MR BEASLEY: And he was wearing a mask when you saw him; is that right? 15 MR WRIGHT: Yes, he was.
MR BEASLEY: Did you speak to him at all?
20 MR WRIGHT: I spoke to him and asked him how he was feeling and he wasn't feeling very well. He said, "Look, I've got to sit down", so he was ---
MR BEASLEY: Did he tell you anything about his condition?
25 MR WRIGHT: No, he just said he wasn't feeling very well. He'd been diagnosed with influenza A.
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, he told you that this time, did he?
30 MR WRIGHT: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Did he tell you he'd had a flu test conducted by the ship's medical clinic, someone there?
35 MR WRIGHT: I don't know whether --- no, he didn't tell me he'd been tested, no.
MR BEASLEY: Did he tell you he had been swabbed for COVID-19, for example?
MR WRIGHT: No, there was no mention of COVID-19. 40 MR BEASLEY: When you say there was no mention of COVID-19, does that extend to there was no mention of COVID-19 at any time, to your recollection, on the ship? There was no PA announcements, for example?
45 MR WRIGHT: Not to my recollection, no. There was a letter which is attached to my statement saying about COVID-19 and about a --- to tick certain boxes if you wanted a refund or partial. That's on my statement, that letter.
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MR BEASLEY: All right. Do you have a copy of your police report with you? Sorry, the statement you gave the police; do you have it with you?
5 MR WRIGHT: I do, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Can you go to paragraph 31 for me? I want to double-check something, where it says:
10 My wife Lucia and I woke up and I felt head cold symptoms.
I want to confirm your wife wasn't suffering any symptoms or wasn't feeling unwell on that last morning?
15 MR WRIGHT: No, my wife had no symptoms whatsoever.
MR BEASLEY: So it was just you. Thank you.
When you got off the ship, or just prior to getting off the ship, or after you 20 disembarked, were you handed a document from anyone about having to self-isolate for 14 days?
MR WRIGHT: I believe we were handed a document. I don't have a copy of it, but I believe we were handed a document when we were --- went past Immigration when 25 we handed in our forms to immigration. We were handed a document to say we had to self-isolate for 14 days.
MR BEASLEY: Do you remember whether that was from an Australian Border Force person or someone from New South Wales Health? 30 MR WRIGHT: Look, I don't recall. I think it was New South Wales Health. But, look, I couldn't guarantee that.
MR BEASLEY: All right, but in any event, either just before or shortly after you got 35 off the ship you knew you had to go home and self-isolate for 14 days?
MR WRIGHT: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: You said in your statement that you got a minibus to get home. 40 Was that all seven of you got in the minibus?
MR WRIGHT: No. Six of us. The other lady went to --- she caught her flight to Brisbane. She was from Brisbane.
45 MR BEASLEY: Okay. But Mr Karpik was one of you onboard the minibus?
MR WRIGHT: Correct.
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MR BEASLEY: And then you picked up three more passengers I think you've said, from the Sun Princess cruise?
5 MR WRIGHT: The --- from --- looking for transport home and there was three we picked up at White Bay from the Sun Princess, yes, correct.
MR BEASLEY: So in total there was 10 of you plus the driver in the bus?
10 MR WRIGHT: There was 11 plus the driver, so there were 12.
MR BEASLEY: And outside of Mr Karpik, was anyone wearing a mask?
MR WRIGHT: No, he was the only one wearing a mask. 15 MR BEASLEY: Had you been offered a mask? Had you or your wife been offered a mask by anyone before you disembarked the ship?
MR WRIGHT: No. 20 MR BEASLEY: I think you've mentioned there was a little bit of --- Mr Karpik may have been coughing a little bit and you may have been sneezing a little bit in the minibus; is that right?
25 MR WRIGHT: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: Did anyone else appear to be unwell at all?
MR WRIGHT: --- so either they were feeling --- they had also been to the medical 30 centre in the ship as well, prior to that as well. They weren't feeling the best.
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, you just cut off at the start of the answer. I think you must have said other people in the bus had been to the medical clinic?
35 MR WRIGHT: Yes. Mr and Mrs Jones, Don and Lyn Jones, had also been to the medical centre some days before as they weren't feeling --- the bus. They weren't feeling the best on the bus. They were okay, but they weren't feeling the best.
MR BEASLEY: Had Mr and Mrs Jones gone to the medical clinic with flu-type 40 symptoms, they had coughs or sore throats or ---
MR WRIGHT: They had flu-type symptoms, yes and had been to the medical centre.
45 MR BEASLEY: Sorry. Had they been told what illness they had by the medical clinic?
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MR WRIGHT: I understand they were told the same as Mr Karpik, it was influenza A.
MR BEASLEY: Do you know whether they had a test or not? 5 MR WRIGHT: I don't know.
MR BEASLEY: They weren't given masks?
10 MR WRIGHT: No.
MR BEASLEY: They weren't required to stay in their cabin onboard the ship?
MR WRIGHT: No. 15 MR BEASLEY: All right. So they continued to dine with you right up to the end of the cruise?
MR WRIGHT: Correct. On most occasions. I think there was the odd --- might 20 have been the odd night where Mrs Jones didn't come to dinner. It might have been one night.
MR BEASLEY: Right. Okay.
25 Now, I think shortly after you got back, I'm not sure of the order, but I know you were told by someone that Mr Karpik had been --- he'd done a test for COVID and he was confirmed as a positive case?
MR WRIGHT: Correct. That was on the --- 30 MR BEASLEY: Might have been the 21st?
MR WRIGHT: On the 21st, I believe that was. His wife had spoken to my wife and mentioned that he had been tested and --- 35 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, the way you found out Mr Karpik had tested positive was by his wife calling your wife?
MR WRIGHT: Correct. 40 MR BEASLEY: Had you received any notification at this stage from New South Wales Health concerning confirmed cases of COVID on the ship?
MR WRIGHT: No, not at that stage, no. I did receive notice, I'm not sure what day 45 it was, it might have been a couple of days later. I definitely received notice.
MR BEASLEY: As a result of that conversation Mrs Karpik had with your wife, I
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understand you both decided to go to Wollongong Hospital to get tested yourself?
MR WRIGHT: Correct. On the Sunday, yes. The 22nd.
5 MR BEASLEY: Yes, okay. I don't quite understand it, but I understand that the hospital agreed to take a test from you, but they wouldn't test your wife?
MR WRIGHT: Yeah, they said she didn't have any symptoms so they wouldn't test her. 10 MR BEASLEY: Were they aware that both of you had been in close contact with Mr Karpik who had tested positive?
MR WRIGHT: I'd mentioned that to them and I was quite annoyed, actually, 15 because my wife was due --- was booked in for surgery, breast surgery on 3 April.
MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR WRIGHT: And I thought it would be the right thing to do, to be tested so that 20 we would know whether she was positive or not so she could have her operation.
MR BEASLEY: After you --- who were you speaking to at the hospital?
MR WRIGHT: The nursing staff --- or whoever was in charge of the COVID centre 25 there, the nursing staff.
MR BEASLEY: There is a COVID clinic that had been set up at the Wollongong Hospital, had it?
30 MR WRIGHT: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: And you were speaking to someone that was a nurse?
MR WRIGHT: I believe they were a nurse, yes. 35 MR BEASLEY: All right. And having told that nurse that you been on a cruise and in your travelling group was Mr Karpik who had tested positive for COVID, your wife was still denied a test because she wasn't symptomatic; is that right?
40 MR WRIGHT: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: You were tested because you had some symptoms?
MR WRIGHT: I was tested because I had symptoms, and --- but they were a little 45 bit reluctant because I didn't have many symptoms, but they decided to test me. I sort of pushed the barrow a little bit there.
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MR BEASLEY: What were your symptoms when you went ---
MR WRIGHT: The runny nose and a slight cough.
5 MR BEASLEY: Did you have a fever?
MR WRIGHT: No fevers.
MR BEASLEY: And when you say they were a bit reluctant to test you, can you 10 explain that more fully?
MR WRIGHT: Well, sorry, they seemed to be reluctant to test me because I didn't have any significant symptoms.
15 MR BEASLEY: Is that what they said to you, was it?
MR WRIGHT: Well, that's what I --- no, I wouldn't say they said that, but that's what I believe anyway.
20 MR BEASLEY: In any event, they tested you and the next day you were told you were positive?
MR WRIGHT: Yes.
25 MR BEASLEY: As a result of you being positive, is that the reason why your wife, the day after that, was finally tested?
MR WRIGHT: My wife rang her doctor --- her specialist on the Tuesday because she was booked in for surgery and he said that she needed to be tested for COVID-19 30 and that all passengers on the Ruby Princess now had to be tested anyway.
MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR WRIGHT: So she then went immediately to Wollongong Hospital and got 35 tested.
MR BEASLEY: And I understand from your statement at about paragraphs 53 to 55 you sought the assistance of New South Wales Health to arrange testing for your wife and there wasn't any assistance forthcoming; is that right? 40 MR WRIGHT: That was --- yes, that was afterwards. I wanted to get retested myself to make sure --- because the doctor had indicated that I should be retested as well to be clear before my wife had surgery, which was delayed because of the testing, until 24 April. 45 MR BEASLEY: I may have taken you out of order then. I think your wife got tested on 24 March and on 27 March she actually got a phone call from someone at
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New South Wales Health saying, "You're positive"?
MR WRIGHT: Correct.
5 MR BEASLEY: Do I understand it, she was even asymptomatic at that stage?
MR WRIGHT: Yes, I suppose so, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Well, was she feeling well? She wasn't feeling unwell? 10 MR WRIGHT: No, no, she was feeling well. The Tuesday ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, Mr Wright, we just lost the audio again then. I was asking you whether your wife had any symptoms even when she'd returned a positive result 15 and I think you were trying to tell us that but we lost the audio.
MR WRIGHT: No, she had no symptoms. It wasn't until the next week, probably the Tuesday or the Wednesday that she started having --- she had gastro and vomiting. 20 MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR WRIGHT: And what --- that happened for a few days until she got well again.
25 MR BEASLEY: All right. How long did it take her to recover?
MR WRIGHT: Probably three to four days.
MR BEASLEY: All right. How about yourself? 30 MR WRIGHT: Look, I just took some flu tablets and antihistamines and, look, I was fine after three or four days myself.
MR BEASLEY: What I was taking you to in your statement at paragraph 53 was 35 an email you actually sent to New South Wales Health advising them that your wife was going to have some surgery and her specialist had told you that he wanted her to be retested.
MR WRIGHT: Correct. 40 MR BEASLEY: That was because --- you sent that email because the specialist had told you or your wife, or both of you, that he wanted another test to confirm that your wife was negative, I imagine, before he did the surgery?
45 MR WRIGHT: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: All right, and you got a telephone call from New South Wales
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Health, and in the statement it says she declined the follow-up COVID-19 test. Can you explain to the Commissioner what was actually said to you in that phone call?
MR WRIGHT: Basically what I was told is they do not retest you. And that was 5 about it. I had a good conversation with the lady. She was fairly helpful and pleasant, but the answers I got --- and she just said that New South Wales Health weren't retesting people, they were just ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, you dropped out again. The line dropped out, but you had 10 already said in the email that her specialist required a retest. Did you, in this phone conversation, tell the person you were speaking to from New South Wales Health that your wife was having some major surgery and that the specialist who was going to operate on her wanted her to be tested again?
15 MR WRIGHT: I believe I did, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Yes, okay. In any event, you were able to --- were you able to arrange another testing?
20 MR WRIGHT: Yes. My wife got tested through Wollongong Private Hospital at a clinic and she was --- tested and came up negative, yes.
MR BEASLEY: And she's well now?
25 MR WRIGHT: She's well, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Good. Mr Karpik, your friend, I understand got extremely unwell. I know you were told he was positive on 21 March and had gone to hospital. He was in hospital for quite some time, I understand? 30 MR WRIGHT: Yes. He was on a ventilator for approximately six weeks and I think he was lucky to be alive. His wife was basically told that don't expect --- to expect the worst.
35 MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR WRIGHT: But he survived and after six weeks he was then moved out of ---
MR BEASLEY: I think you were about to tell us he was moved out of the ICU after 40 about six weeks, was he, and subsequently discharged from the hospital?
MR WRIGHT: No. He was moved to another hospital for rehabilitation, Figtree Private. He spent a couple of weeks at Figtree Private in rehab and then he was discharged and is now at home. 45 MR BEASLEY: Would he have been a person that we saw clapped on the news as he was leaving hospital, discharged from hospital, having been on a ventilator for so
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long?
MR WRIGHT: I don't believe so, but he --- it was covered in the --- it was on the news. It was on the Illawarra Mercury front page and also something on the Sunday 5 Telegraph on one Sunday, a two-page spread. Yeah.
MR BEASLEY: Is he still recovering at home then now?
MR WRIGHT: He is now recovering at home and having rehabilitation --- 10 MR BEASLEY: We lost that. I think we heard he was having rehabilitation and?
MR WRIGHT: He's having rehabilitation at the --- rehabilitation centre a couple of times a week and that's to last for another couple of weeks. And he's on a walker at 15 present, and he was a fit man.
MR BEASLEY: Have you seen him since he got out of hospital?
MR WRIGHT: I saw him on Saturday evening. 20 MR BEASLEY: Okay, and how was he?
MR WRIGHT: He's well in himself, but he's still got a long way to go, I think.
25 MR BEASLEY: Mr Wright, in relation to the Commissioner's Terms of Reference to inquire into the Ruby Princess cruise between 8 and 19 March, is there anything that I haven't covered with you that you think might be important for the Commissioner to know about the circumstances of the cruise? Is there any other information you want to pass on to the Commissioner? 30 MR WRIGHT: --- no, I think I've covered most things and I think you've covered most things and asked most of the questions and I've given the answers I believe to be correct.
35 MR BEASLEY: All right. Thank you. Are you content for me to tender as an Exhibit in the Commission the copy of the statement you gave to the police?
MR WRIGHT: Yes.
40 MR BEASLEY: All right. I will tender a copy of a statement of William Wright, dated 15 April 2020, provided to the NSW Police Force, which is Exhibit 72.
EXHIBIT #72 - COPY STATEMENT OF WILLIAM WRIGHT, DATED 45 15.04.2020 PROVIDED TO NSW POLICE FORCE
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MR BEASLEY: Mr Wright, that is all the questions I have for you. Thank you very much for your time and attendance to them. It may be that the Commissioner might want to ask you a couple of questions and it may be that one of the other lawyers may want to seek leave to ask you a question, but that is all for me. Thank you very 5 much.
MR WRIGHT: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER: Mr Wright, you've got your statement there, haven't you? 10 MR WRIGHT: I have, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Would you mind turning to page 5, paragraph 40?
15 MR WRIGHT: 40, was it?
COMMISSIONER: That should read "White Bay", should it not? Do you see the words "Wide Bay" in that paragraph?
20 MR WRIGHT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER: It should be "White", shouldn't it?
MR WRIGHT: It could, but --- 25 COMMISSIONER: Believe me. Page 6, paragraph 45. You've already answered some questions about the difficulty obtaining tests.
MR WRIGHT: Yes. 30 COMMISSIONER: Was there any explanation given to you as to why your wife should not be tested, apart from her having no symptoms?
MR WRIGHT: (inaudible) 35 COMMISSIONER: Sorry, I can't --- I can't hear that at all. Could you try again?
MR WRIGHT: No, that was the only reason given.
40 COMMISSIONER: And when on 11 April, this is your paragraph 54 on page 7, you had the conversation with the lady called Shauna from New South Wales Health ---
MR WRIGHT: Correct.
45 COMMISSIONER: --- was there any reference by her to any shortage of resources or financial restriction or cost pressure preventing the Department from providing a follow-up COVID test?
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MR WRIGHT: Not provided to me.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you. When the specialist informed your wife she would 5 need to be tested negative for COVID-19 before her surgery ---
MR WRIGHT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER: --- do you recall whether there was any description of that 10 being a new or changed policy at the State level?
MR WRIGHT: No.
COMMISSIONER: So far as you knew, it simply may have been the caution that 15 the hospital was showing in relation to everyone else in the hospital; is that right?
MR WRIGHT: Yes, yeah.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much. 20 MR WRIGHT: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER: There are no applications to ask you further questions, so I want to say thank you very much for your help. It really does assist my investigation --- 25 MR WRIGHT: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER: --- to be able to receive your evidence. I'm very grateful for your assistance. Thank you. 30 MR WRIGHT: Thank you very much.
THE WITNESS WITHDREW [10.58 AM] 35
MR BEASLEY: I think Mr Annesley is in the virtual waiting room so we can proceed. Hello, Mr Annesley. Can you hear me?
40 MR ANNESLEY: I can.
MR BEASLEY: My name is Richard Beasley. I think we spoke last week. You might have been in your car.
45 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. Just before I have you sworn in as a witness, I just
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want to let you know who is in the room with me; the Commissioner of the Inquiry, Bret Walker is here.
COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Mr Annesley. 5 MR ANNESLEY: Good morning.
MR BEASLEY: And there are some lawyers from New South Wales Health, New South Wales Police and Princess Cruises Lines are also here. I won't introduce them 10 by name. They will do that if they seek leave to ask you a question.
MR ANNESLEY: No problem.
MR BEASLEY: I will have someone swear you in to give your evidence, 15 Mr Annesley.
DAVID ANNESLEY [11.00 AM]
20 EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: Mr Annesley, you gave a statement to the New South Wales Police 25 that you signed, that is dated 21 May 2020?
MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: Is that statement true and accurate to the best of your knowledge 30 and belief?
MR ANNESLEY: It is.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. I understand that you yourself weren't a passenger on 35 the cruise, but first of all you took your mother-in-law to catch the cruise?
MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: And you dropped her at the Overseas Passenger Terminal on 8 40 March; is that right?
MR ANNESLEY: That's correct as well.
MR BEASLEY: And at some stage during the course of the morning she'd told you 45 the cruise had been delayed?
MR ANNESLEY: Yes, due to New South Wales Health doing a scan of the boat. I
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offered to go back and pick her up because she said it would be some time before they got on the boat. She said she was comfortable where she was, so she stayed there.
5 MR BEASLEY: Do you know how she knew about New South Wales Health being on the boat? Had she been sent some sort of electronic communication or someone had told her that?
MR ANNESLEY: She had been advised that by Princess Cruises. 10 MR BEASLEY: I see, all right. I'm obviously not going to ask you any questions about what your mother-in-law did during the cruise, but on the 19th she called you to come and collect her. She was already off the ship and I think that must have been some surprise from you because you were some distance away? 15 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct. My information via my wife was that the boat would be docking around 8 o'clock in the morning and that due to some health checks and so forth, which I'm assuming they were told on the boat about, that she probably wouldn't be off the boat until about 11 o'clock that morning. I left home 20 early, went down to do some --- pick her up as early as I did.
MR BEASLEY: All right. We lost the last --- we lost part I think of the last sentence then, Mr Annesley. I will apologise in advance. From time to time this line breaks up. If it breaks up when I'm talking, please let me know. There is not much 25 either of us can do about it. But in any event, your mother-in-law was off the ship earlier than you were expecting I think?
MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
30 MR BEASLEY: When you got to Circular Quay, or the Overseas Passenger Terminal, to collect her, she was in a group of a very large number of people I think you've said in your statement, about 600 to 800 people?
MR ANNESLEY: Roughly that would be the estimate of just people gathered 35 around standing with their luggage and she basically emerged from that group. And I was just surprised it was that many people, but then no forwarding transport for the people. There was a couple of --- yeah, go sorry?
MR BEASLEY: That group of people that had their luggage appeared to be waiting 40 around for onward transport somewhere, did they?
MR ANNESLEY: Yes. But not queued up. There was nothing there for them. Like I've said in my statement, I've done regular pick-ups there and you normally have to queue up to get in there when a boat arrives. I'm assuming the boat coming back as 45 early as it did has caught onward transport people by surprise. Whether it be shuttle buses or whoever. I mean, obviously Uber would be available to people and probably taxis, but most of these people already have something organised to drop
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them there and pick them up, and the fact that there was me and one other car there at the time, there was a couple of --- on the outside of those but then people standing up in front of them talking to them, discussing the cruise, whatever, I don't know. But there was certainly a lot more people there with what looked to be no form of 5 transport available to them.
MR BEASLEY: All right. You've told us --- you told the police in the statement you gave them that your mother-in-law --- Helen is her name, isn't it?
10 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: Helen had a mask with her.
MR ANNESLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MR BEASLEY: That had been given to her --- who had given her the mask on the ship?
MR ANNESLEY: She took the mask with her. So before she left we made phone 20 calls to different places. She took enough medication to last her another fortnight past the ship. Her doctor just advised her to take a mask with her as well in the event of possibly an outbreak so she had that with her when she left.
MR BEASLEY: Was that a concern regarding COVID? 25 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: Did you notice in that group of people, large group of people she emerged from, were any of those people, did you notice, wearing masks? 30 MR ANNESLEY: (inaudible)
MR BEASLEY: Did you notice anyone wearing masks in the group of people Helen was standing with? 35 MR ANNESLEY: No, not at all.
MR BEASLEY: You've said in your statement that Helen told you that she'd been told there was no COVID on the ship? 40 MR ANNESLEY: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: Who --- was that a PA announcement or did she tell you who said that? 45 MR ANNESLEY: I don't know who told her that. She doesn't have it as a text message. I'm assuming it was either cabin staff or somebody over the PA system. It
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was quite clear that she --- I didn't even ask her for that. She just offered that "on the ship we were told we had no COVID."
MR BEASLEY: Can I ask how that conversation came up? Was there a discussion 5 about announcements on the ship to go to the medical clinic if you were unwell or did she have a concern about people being unwell on the ship? How did the conversation about COVID come up?
MR ANNESLEY: Just on the basis of my experiences and what had been taking --- 10 over and above that, the fact that her conversation, or prior to leaving New Zealand was to the fact that "Even though we might get in at 8.00 am, it will take me to 11.00 am to get off because they were informed there were going to be some health checks" and my conversation then revolved around, "So did you have your temperature taken or anything?" And she said, "No, they just ushered us off the 15 boat." And in her words, "I've never been ushered off a boat that quickly before in my life", and she's done at least six to seven cruises."
MR BEASLEY: Just on "there were going to be some kind of health checks", what kind of health check did she think there was going to be when the ship got back to 20 Sydney?
MR ANNESLEY: She didn't elaborate. It was just the words of that they were under the impression, obviously from again cabin staff or the captain or a PA announcement, that disembarking the ship would take longer than normal due to 25 some health checks, was the way that the words were put. At which point in time, like I say, I sat her in the back, which was the Uber protocol, even though I wasn't working as a driver at the time, I was doing it as a courtesy to her. She offered to put the mask on and off the back of what she told me I said, "No, you'll be fine."
30 MR BEASLEY: Had she been given a document when she got off the ship from either Border Force or New South Wales Health telling her that she had to self-isolate for 14 days?
MR ANNESLEY: Yes, a one-page document basically just telling you to go home 35 and self-isolate. If my memory serves me correct, I'm pretty sure it's New South Wales Area Health that's on the letterhead.
MR BEASLEY: All right. During the course of the cruise, and when she got in the car with you, had she complained at all about feeling unwell? 40 MR ANNESLEY: No, not at all. And during a conversation with my wife bringing her home, basically I said I hadn't seen her happier or healthier, mentally or physically, even though she's in her 70s and she's had a few medical issues herself, that is quite the best I'd seen her. More so mentally than anything. Quite sharp, easy 45 to talk to, and sort of happy, you know, that she'd been on the cruise almost.
MR BEASLEY: Can I ask you, you've got your statement there with you?
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MR ANNESLEY: Sure.
MR BEASLEY: Can you just go to paragraph 19 on page 3? 5 MR ANNESLEY: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: You say:
10 I was aware that Helen had received emails and texts of warning of COVID-19 on the Ruby Princess.
Can you tell us what she told you about that?
15 MR ANNESLEY: Okay, so on Friday around lunchtime, which is the Friday straight after the Thursday I picked her up, I got a phone call from her --- well, she'd rung my wife initially and they couldn't work it out, so "Ring David, he's the smartest one" type of thing and she'd had an email and she thought it was fictitious because it said it was from the “Bunker” and --- didn't feel comfortable with it. I 20 said, "Look, just forward it to me, I will have a look at it for you." And basically it was from the Bunker, but it was from New South Wales Area Health, and it was indicating that we may have had a few cases on the Ruby Princess. Could you please go and have yourself tested. At which point in time I relayed that back to her and she went to John Hunter Hospital and was tested on the Friday. 25 MR BEASLEY: How was she feeling then, do you know? Did you discuss that at all with her?
MR ANNESLEY: Yeah, she was still feeling fine. 30 MR BEASLEY: She went to the John Hunter Hospital. This would be, is it, the 20th or 21st now? You said the Friday?
MR ANNESLEY: Yes, so she came home on the 19th. Am I correct there, yeah. 35 MR BEASLEY: Yes. So this would be the 21st she went to the hospital?
COMMISSIONER: 20th?
40 MR BEASLEY: It was the day after ---
MR ANNESLEY: 20th ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we just missed that. It was the day after --- you go ahead. 45 MR ANNESLEY: Yes, it was the 20th, which was Friday the 20th. She went to the hospital in the afternoon to be tested at John Hunter. Drove herself there and then
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drove herself back home and then self-isolated.
MR BEASLEY: When was she told her test result?
5 MR ANNESLEY: She wasn't. But I would suspect it would have been on the Monday. But by that time she had become ill on the Sunday and we had her transported to hospital on the Sunday when she didn't feel well. So she was already in hospital and then got her result on the Monday.
10 MR BEASLEY: All right. If you have a look at paragraphs 20 and 21 of your statement, I just want to follow this. Helen got tested on the 20th, do I understand that before she got the test result she started to feel unwell?
MR ANNESLEY: That is correct. 15 MR BEASLEY: And because she was feeling unwell --- what were her symptoms, by the way?
MR ANNESLEY: She just started to feel some aches and pains within her body and 20 felt like she was just coming down with something. So in other words, little bit lethargic and the edge had come off her.
MR BEASLEY: Right. And did you take her to the hospital?
25 MR ANNESLEY: No, she took herself. Sorry, no, we organised an ambulance and the ambulance took her to the hospital.
MR BEASLEY: And while she was in the hospital, she was informed that she'd tested positive or was that news passed on to you or your wife? 30 MR ANNESLEY: No, no, she was told on the Monday that she had tested positive, in the hospital.
MR BEASLEY: So that's Monday the 23rd? 35 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: And she contacted you or your wife and said, "I've tested positive"?
40 MR ANNESLEY: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: And had you already started to feel unwell? I see in paragraph 21 you say that on the 23rd you had a sore throat?
45 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: Was that before you knew that Helen had tested positive?
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MR ANNESLEY: That is correct, yes.
MR BEASLEY: In paragraph 20 where it says, "After Helen was tested Leanne 5 asked if we could get tested and was told no", who was she told "no" by?
MR ANNESLEY: That was New South Wales Health in a phone call.
MR BEASLEY: And what was the reason given. Sorry, at the time of this phone 10 call, Helen had obviously been on a cruise where other people had tested positive, but her test result, I imagine, was that still outstanding?
MR ANNESLEY: It was outstanding. And I believe the "no" was probably more in relation to probably tracing. 15 MR BEASLEY: I see.
What reason was Leanne given for being told, no, we won't do a test for you or her?
20 MR ANNESLEY: "Until your mother tests positive, there is no need for you to come in."
MR BEASLEY: I see. So after Helen had tested positive, and by then you have a sore throat, it was at that point that you were tested? 25 MR ANNESLEY: It was the following day. So it wasn't until Tuesday, Tuesday morning.
MR BEASLEY: And that was at the Gosford Hospital on the Tuesday? 30 MR ANNESLEY: That is correct, yes.
MR BEASLEY: And on the Thursday, the 26th, you were told you were positive?
35 MR ANNESLEY: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: And Leanne, your wife, was tested negative?
MR ANNESLEY: That is also correct. 40 MR BEASLEY: Can you tell us, you say that you started with a sore throat. How did the disease progress with you?
MR ANNESLEY: Basically I had a tickle in the throat on roughly around lunchtime 45 on the Monday. Tried to sort of brush it off as being a little bit paranoid about what was going on. I had a very elevated temperature. By 5 o'clock I had closed my work and come home early, indicated to my wife that "I'm not well" and that this just felt
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different to any other flu or cold that I'd had and I basically self-isolated straight away into a separate room and basically proceeded from there to be self-isolated, to then wearing a mask if I did move around the house where no one else was --- being tested on the Tuesday. And this continued. 5 MR BEASLEY: Did you ---
MR ANNESLEY: And then just continued.
10 MR BEASLEY: Did you get any hospital or other medical treatment?
MR ANNESLEY: I did not and that was my own doing.
MR BEASLEY: And how long did it take for you to recover? 15 MR ANNESLEY: It took me 16 days before I was symptom free and then I had another five days off after that.
MR BEASLEY: Have you had a subsequent test? 20 MR ANNESLEY: No ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we just lost the very last bit of what you said then. You said "No" and we lost the rest. 25 MR ANNESLEY: No, but I'd been told if I did, it would test positive. The words I've been given from New South Wales Health is that I would test positive, but I would be non-infectious, that's why we do the self-isolation.
30 MR BEASLEY: Just pausing there. You've said in your statement that you were released from self-isolation on 10 April. This is in paragraph 27. When you say released from self-isolation, is that you released yourself or New South Wales Health said you no longer had to self-isolate?
35 MR ANNESLEY: New South Wales Health said I didn't have to self-isolate. So their criteria at the time was that you had to be three days of no symptoms, and symptoms were your coughing, your sore throat, those sort of symptoms, whereas the symptoms that I've still got at the moment, a lack of energy and this raspiness in my voice which I don't normally have, they are the two things that I've inherited 40 from it. They don't ---
MR BEASLEY: We lost the very last bit of that sentence. They don't?
MR ANNESLEY: They don't regard those two items, the croaky voice and the lack 45 of energy, as being symptoms. So once you have three clear days of no symptoms you are then classed as being allowed to be back out in the normal --- you are not infectious, essentially.
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MR BEASLEY: Who is telling you this at New South Wales Health?
MR ANNESLEY: The people that rang every single day. 5 MR BEASLEY: Do you know who they are, though?
MR ANNESLEY: They were --- I doubt that I got the same person twice, in the whole 16 or 19 days that I had conversations and I still get a phone call from them 10 once a fortnight asking how I am.
MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR ANNESLEY: They just declare themselves as being from New South Wales 15 Area Health, and "We're doing a follow-up check on you." Or at the time, "We're doing a daily check on you." So it wasn't about ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, do they ---
20 MR ANNESLEY: I was going to say the call was about self-isolation, they were asking what were my symptoms, what were my temperatures because I had elected to stay home. I possibly was borderline whether I needed hospital care. I felt I was getting better care here and being able to get out in the sun was probably the best thing that was fighting it. 25 MR BEASLEY: Right.
MR ANNESLEY: I could ask the medical --- like, they would say, "Have you got any questions of us", and I would always ask questions, and they said, "Oh, we're not 30 from a medical background, but we'll find out for you and come back to you." They never ever came back to me with an answer.
MR BEASLEY: Did you happen to ask them on what basis they were saying that with --- that because your symptoms now were fatigue and raspiness of breath, that 35 you can't transmit the disease?
MR ANNESLEY: I have. And, again, they say they are not of a medical background, "But we'll find out for you and call you back. " When you ask the about that three-day isolation and supposedly being clear because you've had three days of 40 no symptoms, it's their advice from when you ask them. So, okay, who gives you that as being the guideline for not being infectious anymore and they say that is coming from the Health Department.
MR BEASLEY: I see. So they are saying the Health Department is telling them to 45 advise people that if you have been in isolation for your 14 days and symptom free for another three days that you can't give the disease to someone else even though if you did a test you'd test positive?
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MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: Have you asked them if --- how they know that if you tested 5 positive, you can't transmit the disease?
MR ANNESLEY: No, I didn't ask that question. Because I felt like I wasn't getting answers so I stopped asking the questions. It's the same as could I recontract the virus again? "We don't think so, but we don't have any evidence to say you might 10 not. But if you did get it, it mightn't be as strong" is what they said. It was very flippant.
MR BEASLEY: The short answer is when people from the Health Department are contacting you in relation to any medical issue that you've raised they've said "We're 15 not medical people. We'll get back to you"?
MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
MR BEASLEY: During the period where Helen was on the cruise, you were 20 working as normal during that period?
MR ANNESLEY: That's correct, yes.
MR BEASLEY: And that's involving Uber driving? 25 MR ANNESLEY: My main job is I run my own car yard on my own. I sell cars. I sell golf carts. And to pick up the slack in between I will do some part-time Uber work. So, in other words, if I went to Sydney to look at some cars to purchase, I might do three or four hours work while I'm down there. 30 MR BEASLEY: All right. After Helen got back from the cruise on 19 March and you picked her up, were you doing any work from the 19th until you found out she was positive?
35 MR ANNESLEY: Yes. I did one that after --- so the day I picked her up, I did one other pick-up that afternoon.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Mr Annesley, bearing in mind the Commissioner's Terms of Reference to inquire into the circumstances of this cruise of the Ruby 40 Princess from 8 to 19 March, is there anything you feel that you think would be of relevance to pass on to the Commissioner that I haven't asked you about?
MR ANNESLEY: No, not really. I mean, from a personal nature and doing the maths, I don't understand why you'd tell your passengers, "We'll dock about 8.00 am 45 and you should be off by 11.00 am." If you are going to drive it back like a hydrofoil and get here --- I believe it was outside the heads at 10.30 pm the night before. So that's the bit I just don't understand it. If you did think you had a problem on the
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boat, what was the necessity to drop it back faster than any other --- that you've informed your passengers?
So if the other people --- and --- I don't know whether Helen caught it in that 5 community transfer when they're on the dock, or it was on the boat, but I'm certain -- - have certainly caught it through a community situation, whether ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry to interrupt, we just lost the bit where you are saying you don't know whether Helen caught it in a community transfer in that big group and 10 then the rest of that got cut off.
MR ANNESLEY: Yeah, I don't know if she caught it on the boat, community transfer, but I am quite positive that there were other people that would have been transferring it at that point in time while they were mingled together in what looked 15 to be a great big huddle of people, with their luggage, just standing around having a chat. With essentially --- if they've told their freight forwarder, like in other words, their transport, that they are going to get in 11.00 am as well, they'd have been standing there for three or four hours waiting and that's the bit that doesn't sit well with me. 20 MR BEASLEY: All right. Thank you. Are you content for me to tender as an Exhibit in the Commission the statement that you gave to the New South Wales Police?
25 MR ANNESLEY: Yeah, no problem at all.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. I will tender the statement of David Annesley given to the NSW Police and dated 21 May 2020, and that is Exhibit 73, I believe.
30 EXHIBIT #73 - STATEMENT OF DAVID ANNESLEY GIVEN TO NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE DATED 21.05.2020
35 MR BEASLEY: Mr Annesley, that's all the questions I have for you. Thank you very much for your time and for answering them. The Commissioner may want to ask you some questions and it is possible one of the other lawyers might seek his leave to do that. But for me, that's all. Thank you.
40 MR ANNESLEY: No problem.
COMMISSIONER: Mr Annesley, you've got your statement there, I think?
MR ANNESLEY: I do. 45 COMMISSIONER: On page 3, at paragraphs 20 and 21, whom did your wife, Leanne, ask whether you and she could get tested?
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MR ANNESLEY: Sorry, I didn't catch that?
COMMISSIONER: Who was it that your wife Leanne asked whether you and she 5 could get tested?
MR ANNESLEY: New South Wales Health, and I'm pretty sure she rang the branch at Gosford.
10 COMMISSIONER: Thank you. And was New South Wales Health in touch on Monday the 23rd after Helen's positive test results came back?
MR ANNESLEY: No, we were informed by Helen herself.
15 COMMISSIONER: And then was it on the Monday or the Tuesday that you arranged the test yourself?
MR ANNESLEY: Monday.
20 COMMISSIONER: And did you do that by ringing them and saying: “Our friend, Helen, [or I should say, Helen] has been tested positive. One of us has been in close contact. Could we also get tested?” Was it something like that?
MR ANNESLEY: Yes, that was done Monday afternoon --- tested positive before 25 we could come in.
COMMISSIONER: So, in effect, a condition for your being tested had been told to you beforehand and when it was fulfilled the arrangements went ahead for your test; is that right? 30 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct. We went in Tuesday morning at 10.00 am.
COMMISSIONER: And since your positive test result, have you been asked tracing questions about your contacts since the Ruby Princess came back? 35 MR ANNESLEY: Yeah. Yes, I was asked a couple of times.
COMMISSIONER: You say that more recently you've been told in effect no point in testing you, that you would test positive; is that right? 40 MR ANNESLEY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER: Do you recall whether anybody explained that is an antibody test or some other kind of test? 45 MR ANNESLEY: No. I've been to the doctor ---
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COMMISSIONER: Sorry, it's broken up. You've been to the doctor and?
MR ANNESLEY: I've been to the doctor twice since and I have another appointment coming up. The only thing I got back out of that was that my blood had 5 indicated I had the disease.
COMMISSIONER: Has anyone used the expression "serology" to describe a test?
MR ANNESLEY: No. 10 COMMISSIONER: Are there any other questions?
Mr Annesley, I'm very grateful for the care you've taken in giving your evidence. It is quite an important aspect of the matter, the community spread after the ship came 15 back and I'm grateful for your assistance. I hope your remaining symptoms go away as soon as possible.
MR ANNESLEY: Thank you.
20 THE WITNESS WITHDREW [11.28 AM]
MR BEASLEY: Commissioner, Mr Andrew Saulys, I hope I'm saying that 25 correctly, I haven't met him yet. He's at 12.00 pm. So we might take a longer --- slightly longer morning tea adjournment.
COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you. So, we reconvene at noon; that's right?
30 MR BEASLEY: Reconvene at noon. I believe he's with his wife. I don't know whether --- the police statement I've been given is only from Andrew. His wife, Joan, I'm told is going to be with him. It may be that they are both sworn in as witnesses to give joint evidence.
35 COMMISSIONER: I'm happy for you to make whatever arrangements you like in that regard. That will not be a problem.
ADJOURNED [11.29 AM] 40
RESUMED [12.06 PM]
45 MR BEASLEY: The Commissioner has received a supplementary or second statement, from Dr Tobin. I won't tender it at the moment. It's only just been circulated. I very much doubt anyone will have any issues with it. I will tender it
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after the interested parties have had a chance to consider it.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
5 MR BEASLEY: It's in relation to the various questions you asked him ---
COMMISSIONER: I've read it.
MR BEASLEY: Yes. 10 I believe we have Mr and Mrs Saulys ready to give evidence.
Hello, Mr and Mrs Saulys. Can you hear me?
15 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: First of all, can I ask you whether I have pronounced your name correctly?
20 MR SAULYS: Yes, it is pronounced "Saulys".
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. I'm Richard Beasley. I'm one of the counsel assisting the Commission.
25 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: We are just going to have you both sworn in to give your evidence, then I will be asking you some questions. Before I do that, I want to let you know who else I have in the room. The Commissioner for the Commission, Mr Bret 30 Walker is here.
COMMISSIONER: Good morning.
MR SAULYS: Good morning. 35 MR BEASLEY: And there are also some lawyers from New South Wales Health, from Carnival Australia and the Princess Cruise Line, and also from the New South Wales Police. I won't introduce them though because they may not ask you any questions. They will introduce themselves if they get leave to do that. 40 MR SAULYS: Fine.
MR BEASLEY: I think we'll have you both sworn in to give evidence.
45 ANDREW SAULYS, SWORN [12.08 PM]
JOAN SAULYS, SWORN [12.08 PM]
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EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC
5 MR BEASLEY: Mrs Saulys, could you give the Commissioner your full name?
MRS SAULYS: Joan Saulys.
10 MR BEASLEY: And you do the same, Mr Saulys.
MR SAULYS: Andrew Saulys.
MR BEASLEY: You provided a statement to the New South Wales Police that you 15 signed and dated 14 May 2020, Mr Saulys?
MR SAULYS: Yes, I did.
MR BEASLEY: Do you have a copy of that statement with you? 20 MR SAULYS: Yes, I did, but before we go any further, we realised we had an anomaly. We don't know whether ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we lost you after the word "anomaly". Are you going to 25 draw my attention to a correction you want to make to the statement?
MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Is that in paragraph 10? 30 MR SAULYS: Yes, it is. Is that relating to the date, the "14th" should be the "10th"?
MR SAULYS: Yes, it is. Glad you received it. That's fine. 35 MR BEASLEY: Outside of that, is your statement true and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief?
MR SAULYS: Yes. 40 MR BEASLEY: All right. Thank you. Now, do you want me to direct my questions to both of you, or do you want me to direct my questions to one of you in particular and allow someone --- allow the other one to give an answer if there is something further to be said. What is your preference? 45
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MRS SAULYS: Whichever is the easiest.
MR SAULYS: Whichever is the easiest.
5 MR BEASLEY: I might direct them to you both and you can work out who will provide the answer. Perhaps for some preliminary matters, I will ask you, Mr Saulys, given you've given the statement to the police, you travelled on the Ruby Princess between 8 and 19 March and you travelled with another couple, some friends of yours from South Australia? 10 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: All right, and did you fly into Sydney from Adelaide on the morning of the cruise, that is the morning of 8 March? 15 MR SAULYS: No. We flew from Adelaide to Sydney on Saturday the 7th.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Okay. So you stayed overnight in Sydney and got the cruise the next day? 20 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MRS SAULYS: That's right.
25 MR BEASLEY: Did your friends travel with you on that flight, on the 7th?
MRS SAULYS: No.
MR SAULYS: No, we met them at the James Squires Brewery on the afternoon of 30 the 8th after we had left our luggage at the appropriate area near the Ruby Princess.
MR BEASLEY: The ship by that stage, you had been told that embarkation had been delayed?
35 MR SAULYS: Yes. We received a text message to that effect.
MR BEASLEY: What reason did the text give you for the delay?
MR SAULYS: I believe it said something to the effect of New South Wales Health 40 was still onboard and go to The Rocks for an evening meal.
MR BEASLEY: Was that a text from the cruise line itself?
MR SAULYS: Princess, yes. 45 MRS SAULYS: Princess Line.
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MR BEASLEY: Did you have a discussion with anyone from the cruise line about that as well, or was it just left to the text?
MR SAULYS: We followed instructions of the text. 5 MR BEASLEY: While you were onboard the ship, throughout the course of your time during the cruise, did you and the friends you travelled with always eat together? I can lip read, "yes", but I didn't hear it.
10 MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: I apologise, this line will undoubtedly break up from time to time. 15 And so if there is any time you see my mouth moving but you can't hear me, please let me know. And I will do the same for you.
MR SAULYS: Okay. Up until now you've been very crystal clear.
20 MR BEASLEY: Yeah, everyone says that. So you dined together with your friends every time you ate; is that right?
MR SAULYS: Yes.
25 MR BEASLEY: Was it always in the same restaurant or did you move about?
MR SAULYS: We moved around.
MR BEASLEY: Sometimes was it in a buffet-style restaurant? 30 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MRS SAULYS: Well, there were occasions ---
35 MR SAULYS: Buffets were either breakfast and lunch, but evening meals were predominantly in the Michelangelo Restaurant or the Da Vinci Restaurant.
MRS SAULYS: --- try to avoid the buffet situation because we just, you know, were wary because we knew that COVID was in the world, not necessarily there, we had 40 no idea, but that's why we sort of decided we will have sit-down meals.
MR BEASLEY: I will come back to the table service meals, but with the buffet, was that you getting your food yourselves or was there a member of the crew putting the food on your plate? 45 MR SAULYS: No, self-serve. Although in the buffet food area, there were a couple of areas where the chefs grabbed a set of tongs and placed certain things on your
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plate. But predominantly it was self-serve.
MR BEASLEY: I understand. With the table service restaurants you mentioned, were you seated at a table of four or were you on a larger table with people you didn't 5 know?
MR SAULYS: No, always four.
MRS SAULYS: Yes. 10 MR BEASLEY: Can you give us an idea, I think one restaurant you mentioned was the Michelangelo. And in relation to the other restaurant you mentioned, how large are these restaurants?
15 MR SAULYS: They were very large.
MR BEASLEY: If you had to estimate how many people, what would you say?
MR SAULYS: Well, it went from one side of the ship to the other side of the ship, 20 so 200-plus. Yeah, I think it would be numbers above that.
MR BEASLEY: For the table service restaurants, did you have --- did you consistently have the same crew member acting as your waiter or waitress or were there different people each time? 25 MR SAULYS: Only on a couple of occasions did we have one person who was the same. But all the other times they were different members of staff.
MRS SAULYS: That was mainly because --- 30 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, you just dropped out then, Mrs Saulys. You might need to start again.
MRS SAULYS: Sorry. 35 MR BEASLEY: That's all right.
MRS SAULYS: On the occasion that we moved tables, the staff attending that table would be different. So that is why. 40 MR BEASLEY: I see. Yes, I follow you.
In relation to hygiene precautions, were you always reminded by crew or did they always insist on you using hand sanitiser before meals? 45 MRS SAULYS: Definitely.
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MR SAULYS: Every area that we frequented for any meals you had to use a hand sanitiser before you entered the area.
MRS SAULYS: They wouldn't let you in. 5 MR BEASLEY: Right. Had you done any cruises before this one?
MRS SAULYS: No.
10 MR SAULYS: No. This was our first.
MR BEASLEY: Also on the ship you did the usual things like going to shows and that sort of thing?
15 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Was that every night?
MR SAULYS: Predominantly in the evenings we would after --- after our evening 20 meal we would go to the Ruby Princess Theatre at the front of the vessel. I think it was level 7 and 8. That would finish around 10.30 pm and then we'd have a nightcap after that.
MR BEASLEY: In a bar? 25 MR SAULYS: In a bar.
MR BEASLEY: Was that the Crooners Bar?
30 MR SAULYS: We went to a few, but that would be one of them.
MR BEASLEY: It's the only bar I can remember, which is why I asked you.
MR SAULYS: No, that's fine. 35 MR BEASLEY: You also, I think, during the course of the cruise at each stop it made in a port in New Zealand you and your friends got off and did some sort of touring around?
40 MR SAULYS: Yes, we did.
MR BEASLEY: So that was Dunedin on the 12th, Akaroa on the 13th, Wellington on the 14th and Napier on the 15th. And each occasion you got off the ship?
45 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Did you do like a group tour at any of those spots?
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MR SAULYS: At Napier we did a wine tour to Hawke's Bay. There were a few buses incorporated in that and we went to two wineries. I can't for the life of me remember, I think one was the Abbey Estate and I can't remember the other one, I'm 5 sorry.
MR BEASLEY: I will ask you at the end whether you can recommend any wines. But were these in big buses, coaches?
10 MR SAULYS: Yes, they were. Yes.
MRS SAULYS: Wasn't one --- we went to Larnach Castle ---
MR SAULYS: Oh, and Dunedin we went to the information centre there, which was 15 right in the heart of the centre of the city and we went on a small minibus to Larnach Castle ---
MR BEASLEY: Yes.
20 MR SAULYS: --- and there would have been 8 to 10 people.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Did you get there by minibus?
MR SAULYS: From the centre of Dunedin to Larnach Castle --- 25 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we just lost you, Mr Saulys in the last little sentence.
MRS SAULYS: The cruise provided a bus into the centre.
30 MR SAULYS: From the port.
MRS SAULYS: Yes, and then we did our own thing afterwards.
MR BEASLEY: All right. And when you stopped at these various ports did you 35 also do things like go into shops and cafes?
MR SAULYS: Yes, we did.
MR BEASLEY: Were the four of you together all the time or did you go off and do 40 your own thing?
MR SAULYS: No ---
MRS SAULYS: Well most of the time. 45 MR SAULYS: We were together each and every time. As far as I remember, onshore excursions we were going to do something different on the last day, at the
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Bay of Fires. But we never eventuated to that because the cruise was cut short.
MR BEASLEY: That's what I want to ask you about. I want to ask you about whether you recall any announcements over the ship's PA in relation to various 5 things. First of all, did you find out that the ship had to return to Sydney earlier via an on-board announcement or via some document?
MR SAULYS: No. We were in the Princess --- Ruby Princess Theatre after our meal, and this was Sunday the 15th, and it was around 10.00 pm, around that time, 10 and the Captain came across the PA and said, "I'm sorry, everybody, I have received news that Jacinda Ardern, the New Zealand Prime Minister, has announced that she is closing the New Zealand borders, so no international shipping are able to pull into port”. We were heading towards Tauranga from Napier, so we did a U-turn and then headed back and the following day we were passing by the Port of Wellington out 15 into the Tasman.
MR BEASLEY: Okay. Were there any onboard announcements that you recall over the PA system that invited people or asked people to go to the medical clinic if they were feeling unwell? For example, if they had a sore throat or a cough? 20 MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR SAULYS: Yes.
25 MR BEASLEY: What do you recall about those announcements?
MR SAULYS: Only what you stated; that if there were any symptoms to go to the medical rooms. But it didn't proceed past that.
30 MR BEASLEY: I'm just wondering, do you recall, doing the best you can, to link this to where the ship had visited various ports in New Zealand, were these announcements towards the end of the cruise or right through the cruise?
MRS SAULYS: No that was --- basically I think it was after the Sunday. 35 MR SAULYS: Could have been, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we just lost you again, Mrs Saulys. You'd said it was after the Sunday? 40 Yes, I think from then on we sort of had these constant messages saying if you were unwell, if you had a sore throat, or symptoms report to the medical area.
MR BEASLEY: All right, so it's not just one time you recall this, you recall some 45 fairly regular announcements of this kind, do you, over the PA?
JOAN: I think they did it early in the morning and then lunchtime.
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MR BEASLEY: Was your memory that at any time during the announcements that it would be mentioned that you wouldn't be charged for the service, that it would be free if you went to the medical clinic with a symptom like a cough or a sore throat? 5 JOAN: No, I don't remember that.
MR SAULYS: No, no, there was --- not that I can remember.
10 MR BEASLEY: In addition to the PA announcements, was a note ever put under the door of your cabin or given to you by some member of the crew saying something similar, that if you've got a cough or a sore throat, you should go to the medical clinic?
15 MR SAULYS: We have some printouts here.
MRS SAULYS: That we were given.
MR SAULYS: "Guest stateroom health advisory printout" --- 20 MRS SAULYS: And then another one from --- regarding coronavirus, but none of them are dated and we really can't remember ---
MR SAULYS: Can't remember when they were slipped under the door --- 25 MRS SAULYS: Towards the end ---
MR BEASLEY: Are both of these documents from the Princess Cruises?
30 MRS SAULYS: They, are, yes.
MR SAULYS: They were signed by the same person.
MR BEASLEY: The one about the coronavirus, what information does that give 35 you?
MRS SAULYS: Just telling you to protect your health and safety, that they closely - -- situation.
40 MR SAULYS: Steps to keep it at bay, like washing your hands with soap and water for 20 seconds, avoid lots of contact with people suffering from respiratory illness.
MRS SAULYS: It says get ---
45 MR BEASLEY: We lost you again, sorry, Mrs Saulys. We might find a way of getting this document from you eventually.
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MRS SAULYS: Sure.
MR BEASLEY: But was this a document that was provided to you at the commencement of the cruise or was it something handed or provided to you much 5 later?
MRS SAULYS: I think it was later because prior to that nobody mentioned coronavirus and then --- area if you had a cough or whatever and the next thing this coronavirus thing. I think that was right at the end --- 10 MR BEASLEY: Were there also some documents you were provided when you were on the ship towards the end of the cruise from the Australian Government about self-isolating for 14 days?
15 MRS SAULYS: Just a moment. I've got --- goodies here. Not that I can recall anyway.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Just going back to the document you were talking about before mentioning coronavirus, has that got a heading "Health 20 Advisory - Coronavirus", addressed to "Dear Valued Guest"?
MR SAULYS: Yes.
MRS SAULYS: Yep, that's it. 25 MR BEASLEY: Is it signed by Dr Grant Tarling, the Chief Medical Officer?
MRS SAULYS: I just found another one, "Dear Princess guest". It was dated on the 17th. 30 MR SAULYS: That was due to compensation, et cetera.
MRS SAULYS: No, we got that at the end.
35 MR BEASLEY: The one before, though, is that signed by Dr Grant Tarling, the Chief Medical Officer?
MR SAULYS: Just "Princess passengers", I've found it, on 15 March --- announced international cruise ship operations. " That was on the header --- 40 MR BEASLEY: I'm just asking you about the one you said mentioned coronavirus.
MR SAULYS: Yes.
45 MR BEASLEY: That one; is that signed by Dr Grant Tarling?
MRS SAULYS: It is, yes.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1745 MR A. SAULYS & MRS J. SAULYS XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: All right. I think we have what that one might be. You've mentioned in paragraph 12 of your statement, just turn that up if you wouldn't mind. You've got a reference there to going to the Da Vinci Restaurant that night and 5 a couple being told they couldn't go into the restaurant?
MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR SAULYS: Yes, that's right. 10 MR BEASLEY: Do I understand that was a member of the crew taking their name and checking them against some list, is it?
MR SAULYS: --- a lanyard with our room on the little disk --- 15 MRS SAULYS: It was a little detailed disk that had a link to the computer.
MR BEASLEY: I see.
20 MRS SAULYS: And they had like an iPad almost.
MR SAULYS: So whenever you approached a particular person, because you were in proximity it would register your room number and then they would be able to greet you by name. So it was --- 25 MR BEASLEY: This couple were told, you heard the crew member say that they couldn't go in the dining room and they had to eat their meal via room service?
MRS SAULYS: That's right. 30 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Did you hear a reason given as to why they had to do that?
35 MRS SAULYS: No.
MR SAULYS: No, there was no reason given, other than the fact, "No, you can't eat here. " And when they said "Why?", they said, "You can't eat here. You can only have room service and eat in your room", I can't remember --- 40 MR BEASLEY: Were these people wearing masks?
MR SAULYS: No, no masks. So we were a little bit surprised and they said, "But we've eaten here during the whole cruise. " And the staff member said, "No, you 45 cannot go in. You will have to order room service."
MRS SAULYS: She seemed quite flustered, the young girl on the desk. She was
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sort of waving them away hurriedly.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Did you see anyone during the course of the cruise wearing masks? 5 MRS SAULYS: I think there were a few. But we thought that they were --- you know? We didn't think anything of it because there were a lot of people who had those oxygen cylinders and wheelchairs and all that sort of stuff. Quite elderly people. 10 MR SAULYS: Gophers and the like.
MR BEASLEY: You've also mentioned in your statement in paragraph 13 that your cabin attendant appeared unwell in the last few days of the cruise? 15 MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR SAULYS: Yes. We didn't know whether --- we knew he was a smoker. We didn't know whether that was relating to maybe --- 20 MRS SAULYS: Him coughing.
MR SAULYS: Coughing because of that or because of the --- a flu or anything other than that. 25 MR BEASLEY: Was he coughing in the cabin when you were there?
MR SAULYS: No.
30 MRS SAULYS: We weren't in the cabin when he was ---
MR BEASLEY: Where did you notice him coughing?
MR SAULYS: We bumped into him in the passageway near our room. 35 MRS SAULYS: And he'd be going about his business cleaning other rooms. One day he was up one end and down ---
MR BEASLEY: Can I ask you, the coughing, was it persistent coughing or the odd 40 cough?
MR SAULYS: It was a bit more than the odd. It was somewhere between the two, but yeah.
45 MR BEASLEY: Was he wearing a mask?
MR SAULYS: No.
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MR BEASLEY: Both of you felt well until, as I understand it, the morning of the 18th; that's right?
5 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR SAULYS: That was Wednesday morning. We woke up and we both had a bit 10 of a slight tickle, but that was the first instance. But the air conditioning in the state rooms was I think regulated because it was always --- we thought it was a little too cool. It was always wound down.
MRS SAULYS: It was either too hot or too cold and we thought we had a bit of 15 a rough throat from the air conditioning.
MR SAULYS: From that. Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, when you say the state rooms, these are --- what is a state 20 room?
MRS SAULYS: That's the cabin.
MR SAULYS: With a balcony. 25 MR BEASLEY: I see. This is your own room?
MRS SAULYS: Yes.
30 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Are you able to control the air conditioning yourself, though, in your room? In your cabin?
35 MRS SAULYS: You can.
MR SAULYS: But once we had come back, sometimes it was readjusted so ---
MR BEASLEY: I see, and it was adjusted too cold for your liking? 40 MRS SAULYS: Actually, it was too hot for me. But the thing is, we woke up, we had the slight tickle, but it disappeared during the day. So we thought, oh, air conditioning.
45 MR SAULYS: Yeah, but it disappeared by the time we had a brunch time meal in the buffet. So we just put it down to that kind of scenario.
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MR BEASLEY: Outside of the tickle in your throat, you didn't have any other symptoms like a cough, runny nose, fever?
MRS SAULYS: No. 5 MR SAULYS: No.
MR BEASLEY: And your travelling companions, were they well through the course of the cruise? 10 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MRS SAULYS: Yes.
15 MR BEASLEY: When you disembarked, that was a relatively quick process; was it?
MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR SAULYS: Yes. 20 MR BEASLEY: And when you got off the ship, were you handed any documents by anyone, whether it was Australian Border Force or New South Wales Health about having to self-isolate for 14 days?
25 MR SAULYS: No. The only thing ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we just lost you again then, Mr Saulys. You might need to start again.
30 MR SAULYS: Okay. The only information was our information that we had to fill out, our little ---
MRS SAULYS: Declaration.
35 MR BEASLEY: Immigration card?
MR SAULYS: Yes. That's all.
MR BEASLEY: How were you advised, then, that you had to self-isolate for 14 40 days when you got back to Australia?
MRS SAULYS: The Princess people put, you know, an announcement over the PA system.
45 MR SAULYS: PA, saying --- isolated ---
MR BEASLEY: So your recollection is the way that you were informed about
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Australia's requirements for self-isolation for 14 days for returning travellers was by the cruise line telling you that?
MRS SAULYS: Yes. 5 MR SAULYS: Yep.
MR BEASLEY: You don't recall being handed any documents when you disembarked? 10 MR SAULYS: None.
MR BEASLEY: No? Okay. Did you fly back to Adelaide the day you got off the cruise? 15 MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR SAULYS: Yes.
20 MR BEASLEY: How did you get to the Sydney Airport?
MR SAULYS: We immediately got our baggage in the terminal area where they were deposited from the ship, went up to the taxi cab rank, I can't remember, I think it was level 3, there were taxi cabs there. We immediately got a cab, got to Sydney 25 Domestic Terminal about 9.20 am ---
MR BEASLEY: Right.
MR SAULYS: --- found out that we missed the 9.35 am, 9.45 am flight by a very 30 short time so we booked the first available flight, which was 3.45 pm, I believe.
MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR SAULYS: With Jetstar. Found a nice secluded spot. Waited there until our 35 baggage could go through. Went and had a bite to eat in one of the many eatery areas on the way to our boarding gate. Found a secluded spot around that gate, and flew back.
MR BEASLEY: Were you --- how were you feeling at this stage at the airport? 40 MR SAULYS: I was feeling a bit tired, but nothing else.
MRS SAULYS: I started to get a bit of a dry cough by then, but it wasn't worrying me or anything. 45 MR BEASLEY: What about your two --- your friends that were travelling with you? Were they getting the same flight?
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MRS SAULYS: No.
MR SAULYS: No. They --- 5 MRS SAULYS: Have a daughter.
COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry?
10 MR SAULYS: --- flying home.
MR BEASLEY: Your flight back to Adelaide, did you happen to notice whether there were other passengers from the Ruby Princess on that flight?
15 MR SAULYS: There may have been, but we're not sure because there were so many --- there were 2,700 people on the boat.
MR BEASLEY: Was the flight back a full flight?
20 MR SAULYS: No.
MRS SAULYS: No, it was mostly two people together in each seat and the third seat was empty and some rows didn't have people in them.
25 MR BEASLEY: Were those seats --- you weren't allowed to sit in them, they had been excluded by the airline or was it just ---
MR SAULYS: No, just not enough tickets filled, or seats filled.
30 MR BEASLEY: All right. When you got back to Adelaide on the 19th, was it the next day that you both felt unwell or was it you were feeling unwell as soon as you got back?
MRS SAULYS: Well, we unpacked and I just couldn't go on. I was so tired. I said 35 to Andy, "I just feel tired, I'm going to bed" and I just went to bed. Really, that was - --
MR SAULYS: Your cough was already starting to become ---
40 MRS SAULYS: That was the first. The cough had accelerated by the time we got home and I just went to bed and Andy stopped unpacking too. And the next day when I woke up I had muscle aches and ---
MR SAULYS: Everything. 45 MRS SAULYS: --- and everything kind of hit me.
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MR BEASLEY: Was it the same for you, Mr Saulys?
MR SAULYS: No, at that stage I was still feeling fairly normal. But we had a text message from our son and he said, "Please view Channel 2 news" --- immediately 5 turned it on and it said "COVID positive" so we looked at each other and said, "Yes, we'll go and get tested at Flinders Hospital."
MR BEASLEY: Just pausing there, had you --- you'd seen the news item on the ABC News. Had you received a text message or any communication from New 10 South Wales Health at that stage about ---
MR SAULYS: Not at that stage, no. No.
MRS SAULYS: After we were tested we did. 15 MR BEASLEY: You were tested that day, 20 March?
MR SAULYS: Yes, just after lunch. Very early afternoon.
20 MR BEASLEY: When did you receive a communication from New South Wales Health?
MR SAULYS: It would have been on the Saturday. And that was after we received a phone call from Infectious Diseases at Royal Adelaide Hospital stating that we 25 were both COVID positive.
MR BEASLEY: According to your statement, you were told you were positive on 22 March. Does that sound right?
30 COMMISSIONER: No.
MRS SAULYS: 21st.
COMMISSIONER: Told on the 21st and asked to come to hospital on the 22nd. 35 MR SAULYS: That was Saturday, 21st.
MR BEASLEY: Okay. At that stage you still hadn't heard from New South Wales Health? 40 MR SAULYS: We heard later in the day.
MR BEASLEY: And was that an email?
45 MRS SAULYS: I've got an email. I've put everything away in a file and I've got one ---
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MR SAULYS: No, that's from Terry King.
MRS SAULYS: I got one from New South Wales Health on, I thought it said the 30th. 5 MR BEASLEY: Was there anything before that from New South Wales Health saying that there ---
MR SAULYS: I remember a phone call. 10 MR BEASLEY: All right. Tell us about the phone call, then?
MR SAULYS: I remember getting a phone call on Sunday, the 22nd, as we were driving to Royal Adelaide Hospital to be admitted because we were COVID positive. 15 But that's about the only thing I remember other than there were so many phone calls, et cetera, coming in Saturday afternoon from our initial COVID positive and at that stage I was feeling pretty awful because after we came home from Flinders Hospital on Friday the 20th, it hit me completely. I had splitting headache, aching everything and no cough like my wife. That was the one difference. 20 MR BEASLEY: Right.
MR SAULYS: So it --- I do remember the 22nd, but I can't remember if there was something phone call-wise from New South Wales Health on the Saturday. 25 MR BEASLEY: All right. The phone call you got on the 22nd from New South Wales Health, do you recall what you were told?
MR SAULYS: I think the doctor introduced himself and then asked whether we 30 were aware of COVID, et cetera, and we said we had been tested and are positive and are going to Royal Adelaide Hospital.
MR BEASLEY: When you say "doctor", did the person introduce themselves as a doctor, did they? 35 MR SAULYS: Yes. I can't for the life of me remember his name. It was so and so from New South Wales Health.
MRS SAULYS: The only message I can find in an email is the New South Wales 40 one on 30th May.
MR BEASLEY: 30th of March or May?
MRS SAULYS: May. 45 MR BEASLEY: Right. What does that one say?
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MRS SAULYS: Well, I have to find it again. I just scrolled past it. It just says:
Dear Ruby Princess passengers, Please see the attached letter sent on behalf of Dr Christine Selvey, Acting 5 Director, Communicable Diseases.
MR SAULYS: And then after that it just says "Unsubscribe".
MR BEASLEY: Mr Saulys, you became very unwell in the hospital and had to be 10 transferred to the ICU?
MR SAULYS: Oh, that happened later. I was what was considered by staff as a classic case because I didn't feel good, I didn't feel bad, for seven days. After seven days my wife Joan was released because her condition improved. After four 15 days there, she started to improve quite markedly, whereas I just stayed roughly the same.
MR BEASLEY: Yes.
20 MR SAULYS: And the day after my wife went home I needed oxygen and it still slid. So I had to be transferred to ICU to be put on a high-flow oxygen machine, rather than just the normal oxygen that you receive in a room.
MR BEASLEY: Yes. 25 MR SAULYS: And I had a cannular put in my arm so I could be drip fed as well as an arterial line put in my wrists so they could take bloods at any stage rather than the normal tourniquet needle.
30 MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR SAULYS: I was there for four days and luckily whatever they did paid off.
MRS SAULYS: Paid off. 35 MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR SAULYS: I was transferred back into an isolation room in the infectious diseases wing of RAH and --- 40 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, you had left --- the test was at Flinders but when you actually went to hospital it was to the New Royal Adelaide Hospital, was it?
MR SAULYS: Yes, that's where we were directed to go for our time in hospital. 45 MR BEASLEY: I see. Did they have a COVID clinic there or COVID ward there?
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MRS SAULYS: Yes. That was SA Health told us to go there.
MR BEASLEY: All right. You finally got out of hospital on 7 April. This is to you, Mr Saulys; how are you feeling now? 5 MR SAULYS: I'm good.
MR BEASLEY: Do you feel like you are fully recovered?
10 MR SAULYS: Not entirely. The doctors in RAH said you could, because of the time spent there, take up to two to three months to fully recover because your lungs were impaired and that's why I had to go on oxygen.
MR BEASLEY: Yes. 15 MR SAULYS: But I haven't had the need. I'm feeling okay, I just feel fatigued if I do stuff.
MR BEASLEY: You feel fatigued? 20 MR SAULYS: A little bit fatigued but nothing else and then the day after, I'm okay again.
MR BEASLEY: And you, Mrs Saulys, how are you? 25 MRS SAULYS: I'm the same. I'm not as bad as Andy, but if I do a lot of manual work or whatever, then --- because we are both retired and we were getting wood for our fire and a lot of lifting and hauling, and I was tired after that. You get, you know, you get run down really quickly. 30 MR BEASLEY: All right. You say in the very last paragraph of your statement that you have both been cleared of infection. Was that some advice given to you or did you have another test that came back negative? How was that done?
35 MR SAULYS: Well, we were cleared to go out of the hospital after our last three days of blood tests, and --- but we then had our isolation time and we had "hospital in the home" ring us for temperature, bloods, blood pressure and all of that.
MR BEASLEY: Yes. 40 MR SAULYS: But then we were treated like lepers by our family and they said, "Have you had another follow-up test?" So we rang our GPs and they said if you are showing any symptoms or you are a first responder or paramedic, fair enough, go and have another test, but we weren't showing any symptoms. So in the end we took 45 it on our own recognisance to go to another site at the Repat Hospital ---
MRS SAULYS: Because they were advertising on the radio, "Come and get a test".
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1755 MR A. SAULYS & MRS J. SAULYS XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: I see, yes.
MR SAULYS: Yeah, so we went there and a chap in a full regalia of mask, 5 everything, first thing he said was "Have you got an appointment from your doctor", to which we said, "No, we haven't", but we explained why we were there, and he said "Go back to Flinders coronavirus testing site. They will check you out again. " So we did that.
10 MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MR SAULYS: And then we received a text from SA Health the following day saying we were both COVID negative.
15 MR BEASLEY: Okay. In relation to New South Wales Health, you've mentioned this 30 May email?
MRS SAULYS: I had a look at that and I know what it is. It was relating to tuberculosis. 20 MR BEASLEY: I see. I know what that is. That's all right. I don't need to explore that further with you.
Have New South Wales Health kept in contact with you regarding your condition at 25 all?
MRS SAULYS: No.
MR SAULYS: No. 30 MR BEASLEY: Basically your dealings, though, back in Adelaide have been with South Australian Health for obvious reasons?
MRS SAULYS: Yes. 35 MR SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: All right. I'm not sure I've got any further questions for you, but I'm just wondering, given the Commissioner's Terms of Reference to inquire into the 40 Ruby Princess cruise from the 8 to 19th March, is there anything either of you think I haven't covered that you think might be important for the Commissioner to know?
MR SAULYS: No, I think everything that we are aware of has been.
45 MRS SAULYS: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Can I ask you one more question. Given you are from South
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1756 MR A. SAULYS & MRS J. SAULYS XN MR BEASLEY SC
Australia, you are not Adelaide Crows supporters are you?
MRS SAULYS: No.
5 MR SAULYS: No.
MR BEASLEY: I was going to offer my commiserations but I don't have to.
MR SAULYS: All I can do in response is say "Go the Power!" 10 MR BEASLEY: That's my mother's team so I will endorse that.
MR SAULYS: Yep.
15 MR BEASLEY: The Commissioner may want to ask you some questions so I will now hand over to him. Thank you very much for attending to my questions.
MR SAULYS: Thank you.
20 COMMISSIONER: Can you remember whether your cabin steward, Jerome, was also the cabin steward for your friends Robyn and Paul Faraguna?
MR SAULYS: Yes. Yes.
25 MRS SAULYS: Yes. The reason we know is because he was ---
MR SAULYS: Allocated a number along our passageway and we were on the Aloha Deck so Robyn and Paul were only two ---
30 MR BEASLEY: I think that was "two cabins away".
MRS SAULYS: That's right.
MR BEASLEY: Really good lipreading there. 35 MR SAULYS: Fabulous.
COMMISSIONER: Do you remember whether --- I'll start again. Do you recall whether any of the announcements from the ship about going to the medical centre 40 included a statement that if you went for respiratory symptoms the attendance would be free of charge; do you recall anything like that?
MRS SAULYS: No.
45 MR SAULYS: No, we can't recollect "free of charge" being stated.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1757 MR A. SAULYS & MRS J. SAULYS XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR SAULYS: If it was, we can't recollect it. Sorry.
COMMISSIONER: Not at all. Don't apologise. Thank you very much for your --- 5 the trouble you've taken. I really do appreciate it. It is very helpful to my Inquiry and I'm grateful for the time you've spent today. Thank you very much. And all the best.
MRS SAULYS: Thank you. 10 MR SAULYS: Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: I have just one more question I forgot to ask, and this is for Mrs Saulys. When you were discharged from the hospital, were you told you still 15 had to self-isolate for another 14 days?
MRS SAULYS: Yeah, not 14.
MR SAULYS: No. 20 MRS SAULYS: We did 10 because they monitor you in hospital.
MR SAULYS: And if you don't show symptoms for the last 72 --- she'd been in total isolation in a separate room, they included that in the so-called 14 days. But, leading 25 on from that, because Joan went home on the 28th ---
MRS SAULYS: That's right.
MR SAULYS: --- she had her home isolation finish on the day that she had to come 30 and pick me up to take me home. So she did a double dip.
MRS SAULYS: I had to start again.
MR SAULYS: So she --- yeah. 35 MR BEASLEY: All right. Never mind.
MR SAULYS: So our first day of cleared home isolation was 18 April.
40 MR BEASLEY: Thank you. Thank you again.
MRS SAULYS: No worries.
MR BEASLEY: Hang on. Sorry, I do need to ask one more question, I'm reminded. 45 Mr Saulys, do you have any objection to me tendering as an exhibit in the Inquiry the statement you gave the New South Wales Police?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1758 MR A. SAULYS & MRS J. SAULYS XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR SAULYS: No ---
MR BEASLEY: We missed your answer. Did you say "yes"? 5 MR SAULYS: Go for it.
MR BEASLEY: I will tender statement of Andrew Saulys to the New South Wales Police dated 14 May 2020, which is Exhibit number 74. 10
EXHIBIT #74 - STATEMENT OF ANDREW SAULYS TO NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE DATED 14.05.2020
15 MR BEASLEY: Mr McLure has given me a document headed "Health Advisory - Coronavirus", addressed to "Dear Valued Guest", signed by Dr Grant Tarling, the Chief Medical Officer of Carnival Worldwide. Do you not even know?
20 MR MCLURE: It's complicated.
MR BEASLEY: I'm going to say "Carnival" and leave it at that. No doubt it is Princess Cruise Lines as well. But it seems perfectly clear this was the document that Mr and Mrs Saulys were given so I will tender that as I've described as Exhibit 25 75.
EXHIBIT #75 - DOCUMENT HEADED "HEALTH ADVISORY - CORONAVIRUS", ADDRESSED TO "DEAR VALUED 30 GUEST", SIGNED BY DR GRANT TARLING, THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER OF CARNIVAL WORLDWIDE
COMMISSIONER: Thank you. 35 Do I gather there are no applications? You are excused. Thank you very much for your time and trouble.
MRS SAULYS: Thank you. Have a good day. 40 MR SAULYS: Thank you.
THE WITNESSES WITHDREW [12.55 PM] 45
MR BEASLEY: I think we adjourn for lunch now, Commissioner, and we have
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1759 MR A. SAULYS & MRS J. SAULYS XN MR BEASLEY SC
Mrs Roope at 2 o'clock.
COMMISSIONER: We will resume at 2.00 pm. Thanks.
5 ADJOURNED [12.55 PM]
RESUMED [2.13 PM] 10
MR BEASLEY: We have Mrs Roope here. Mrs Roope, can you see and hear me?
MS ROOPE: Yes, I can. Loud and clear. 15 MR BEASLEY: It's Richard Beasley. You spoke to me before.
MS ROOPE: Yes, that's right, yes.
20 MR BEASLEY: All right. Just before you get sworn in, I know you want to give an affirmation. Do you, first of all, have with you the statement you gave the New South Wales Police?
MS ROOPE: Yes, in my hands now. 25 MR BEASLEY: Good. I am just going to let you know who is in the Inquiry hearing room with me. First of all is Commissioner Walker. I'm not sure if you can see him?
30 COMMISSIONER: Good afternoon.
MR BEASLEY: Yes. I wasn't telling the truth when I said he'd been replaced by Ms Hoy, who I think you saw before.
35 Also in the room are some lawyers from New South Wales Health, Carnival and Princess Cruise Lines.
MR ANNESLEY: Yes.
40 MR BEASLEY: And also the New South Wales Police. But I won't introduce them. They will introduce themselves if they seek to ask you any questions. Okay?
MS ROOPE: (inaudible)
45 MR BEASLEY: All right. As I think I said to you before, we might --- the line or the audio might break up from time to time. I apologise for that in advance. If you haven't heard anything I've asked you, please let me know.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1760
MS ROOPE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: And I will do the same for you. 5 MS ROOPE: Fine. That's fine. Yes, that's good.
MR BEASLEY: You will be given your affirmation now.
10 JOSEPHINE ROOPE, AFFIRMED [2.17 PM]
EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC 15
MR BEASLEY: Mrs Roope, you were friends with Brian and Lesley Bacon?
MS ROOPE: I was. I still am. 20 MR BEASLEY: You called Lesley, Les?
MS ROOPE: That's right.
25 MR BEASLEY: All right, and you went on the Ruby Princess cruise with them to New Zealand, 8 to 19 March?
MS ROOPE: That's right.
30 MR BEASLEY: I just want to ask you some questions about that cruise, some general questions, and then I will ask you more specific questions.
MS ROOPE: Okay.
35 MR BEASLEY: I think there was a delay getting onboard and you got a text from the cruise line explaining that delay?
MS ROOPE: Yes, we did.
40 MR BEASLEY: What did the text tell you, do you recall?
MS ROOPE: They did tell --- I do have them on my phone. They did tell us that --- and then another delay they said because the Health Department was still on the ship. Yes. 45 MR BEASLEY: All right. Did you speak to anyone from the cruise line about that or you just relied on the information from the text?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1761 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: I just relied on the information that we were told. We were told to go somewhere and have some lunch, which we did.
5 MR BEASLEY: Okay. I just want to ask you some questions first of all about generally what you did on the cruise. Did the three of you usually have your meals together?
MS ROOPE: Yes, we did. 10 MR BEASLEY: And I know you've said in your statement that you often had a drink at something called the Crooners Bar?
MS ROOPE: That's right. 15 MR BEASLEY: That was every night, was it?
MS ROOPE: Oh, most nights. Most nights.
20 MR BEASLEY: I'm obviously talking before ---
MS ROOPE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: --- Mrs Bacon became unwell. 25 MS ROOPE: That's right.
MR BEASLEY: And you ate most of your meals together at a variety --- was it at a variety of restaurants or usually the same restaurant? 30 MS ROOPE: Variety.
MR BEASLEY: Variety. And did that include both buffet and table service?
35 MS ROOPE: Yes, it did.
MR BEASLEY: And given there were three of you, did you have to sit with other passengers at tables or did you always have a table for three?
40 MS ROOPE: No, we usually sat with other people.
MR BEASLEY: How big are the tables?
MS ROOPE: Most times it was about four, six people that were sat. 45 MR BEASLEY: At the buffet restaurants, did you serve the food yourself or did someone serve for you?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1762 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: We got most of our food ourselves. In one section it was dished up by the staff.
5 MR BEASLEY: And whether you went to a table service restaurant or a buffet, you were reminded by the crew, were you, to sanitise your hands?
MS ROOPE: Yes, we were.
10 MR BEASLEY: And were there regular announcements on the ship regarding making sure you did things like that and also wash your hands and other hygiene precautions; do you recall that?
MS ROOPE: No. No, there was no mention. It was up to us to sort ourselves out, 15 I think.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Had you taken a cruise before?
MS ROOPE: Sorry? 20 MR BEASLEY: Have you ever taken a cruise before this one?
MS ROOPE: Yes. Yes, this is my --- this was my fourth one.
25 MR BEASLEY: Was that on Princess Cruise Lines or Carnival Cruises or ---
MS ROOPE: Princess Line was the one before. Pacific --- Pacific Sun was the one before that, the two before that. I'm not ---
30 MR BEASLEY: Doing things like sanitising your hands before meals, was that a procedure in place on those cruises?
MS ROOPE: Only the previous --- on the other ones ---
35 MR BEASLEY: You just broke up then. Were you saying the previous Princess cruise?
MS ROOPE: The previous Princess cruise, yes, in the dining area, only in the buffet. I'm pretty --- 40 MR BEASLEY: How long ago was that cruise, the one before the Ruby Princess?
MS ROOPE: Last year. Yes, last year.
45 MR BEASLEY: So 2019, middle of the year, late in the year, early in the year?
MS ROOPE: --- December.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1763 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: By that cruise, had you heard anything about COVID-19 in December last year?
5 MS ROOPE: No. No.
MR BEASLEY: I know that you did a tour around --- sorry, you got off the ship at both Dunedin on 12th March and Akaroa on 13 March?
10 MS ROOPE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: And you did a tour. Did you do that with Brian at Akaroa?
MS ROOPE: Yes. 15 MR BEASLEY: Am I right that Les hurt herself getting off the ship on the 12th of March?
MS ROOPE: No. She didn't hurt herself, no. She didn't hurt herself. All of 20 a sudden she had horrendous pain in her left leg and could not walk and we didn't know why.
MR BEASLEY: Had she ever had that problem before?
25 MS ROOPE: No, not that. Not like that.
MR BEASLEY: But am I right it happened on 12 March, Dunedin, was where that occurred?
30 MS ROOPE: Yes, at Dunedin.
MR BEASLEY: And I think was --- she went back on the ship, but she came back to you on a cart, did she?
35 MS ROOPE: Yes. Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Is that like a golf cart?
MS ROOPE: A cart thing --- a people transporter from the ship to where we were. 40 MR BEASLEY: Okay. And she bought another walking stick in Napier, is that right?
MS ROOPE: She did. 45 MR BEASLEY: Does that mean she already had a walking stick?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1764 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: Yes, she did, so she was with two.
MR BEASLEY: What did the three of you do in Napier? Did you go to any shops or cafes? 5 MS ROOPE: Yes. We went and had coffee, but we sat outside because it was so lovely. And then we went into a place where they sell paraphernalia for New Zealand, like a touristy-type shop. We went in there, yes. Yes.
10 MR BEASLEY: Mrs Bacon, she went to the medical centre that day because of the pain she was getting in her leg, I think?
MS ROOPE: No, no she --- Akaroa ---
15 MR BEASLEY: I think we just dropped out there. You don't think she did?
MS ROOPE: No, not that day. It was Akaroa. The day of Akaroa ---
MR BEASLEY: All of you got off the ship in Wellington, did you, on the 14th? 20 MS ROOPE: Yes, we did.
MR BEASLEY: What did you do there? You went to a cafe; did you do anything else? 25 MS ROOPE: We had --- Wellington and had a coffee down by the water. There is a water area. And then there was a St Patrick's Day march was happening and we stood and watched that.
30 MR BEASLEY: Was Mrs Bacon able to walk around?
MS ROOPE: No. No. She was hobbling around.
MR BEASLEY: But she was doing that without a wheelchair? 35 MS ROOPE: No, just with the ---
MR BEASLEY: She was ---
40 MS ROOPE: With the two sticks.
MR BEASLEY: She was walking with the two sticks?
MS ROOPE: Yes, with the two sticks. 45 MR BEASLEY: What about in Napier? Did all three of you get off the ship there?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1765 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: Yes, once again ---
MR BEASLEY: And what did you do ---
5 MS ROOPE: Had a walk around. Did some shopping, had a coffee. She didn't walk far. I wandered off on my own for about an hour.
MR BEASLEY: Right. Was Mrs Bacon still in a lot of pain with her leg?
10 MS ROOPE: Extreme pain. Extreme pain.
MR BEASLEY: Was she taking any medication for it?
MS ROOPE: No --- 15 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we lost you then ---
MS ROOPE: We --- I think she might have been trying some Panadol.
20 MR BEASLEY: Was that given to her by the medical clinic on the ship?
MS ROOPE: No, with her medication.
MR BEASLEY: I see. Okay. 25 After on the same day that you had been in Napier, that night, I think there was an announcement over the ship's PA that the ship had to go back to Australia?
MS ROOPE: Yes. Yes. Yes. 30 MR BEASLEY: I'm wondering in relation to other announcements that you may have heard when you were onboard the ship, did you hear any announcements made over the PA that if people were feeling unwell with coughs or sore throats or fevers that they should go to the medical clinic? 35 MS ROOPE: No, I don't remember hearing anything. I don't remember hearing anything.
MR BEASLEY: Were you ever given a document or had a note passed under your 40 cabin door advising you if you had a cough or a sore throat or something of that nature you should go to the medical clinic?
MS ROOPE: No. No, don't remember that.
45 MR BEASLEY: Do you remember getting any document at all during the time you were on the cruise from the ship providing any advice about coronavirus?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1766 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: No.
MR BEASLEY: I think this is a --- do you recall getting any note from the ship saying, "Wash your hands often with soap and water, avoid people that appear to 5 have a respiratory illness", anything like that?
MS ROOPE: No, I don't remember that. I don't remember hearing anything.
MR BEASLEY: That's all right. 10 Do you recall ever getting a document while you were on the ship, perhaps towards the end of the cruise, advising you, this is a document from the Australian Government, that you had to self-isolate for 14 days when you got back to Australia?
15 MS ROOPE: I can remember we were told over the PA system that's what we needed to do. I can't remember whether we had a document or not. I can't remember.
MR BEASLEY: Was that the captain making an announcement when --- 20 MS ROOPE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: --- he said the ship had to go back to Australia that everyone would have to self-isolate for 14 days? 25 MS ROOPE: That is correct.
MR BEASLEY: Was there any mention of coronavirus?
30 MS ROOPE: No.
MR BEASLEY: Are you saying no?
MS ROOPE: No. 35 MR BEASLEY: While you were on the cruise, you also went to a few shows, the three of you, is that right?
MS ROOPE: That's right. 40 MR BEASLEY: In the theatre, a magic show?
MS ROOPE: Yes.
45 MR BEASLEY: And I think it may have been on the evening of 16 March that Mrs Bacon appeared to become unwell at dinner?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1767 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Did she tell you that she was feeling unwell?
5 MS ROOPE: No. No. It didn't seem out of the norm with Lesley.
MR BEASLEY: Right, okay.
She didn't tell you, but later on you found out she had gone to the medical clinic that 10 night; is that right?
MS ROOPE: Yes, that's correct.
MR BEASLEY: Did she tell you she had gone to the medical clinic or did Brian tell 15 you that?
MS ROOPE: No, Brian and I had gone to a show. She didn't want to go. When we got back to the cabin, she'd gone. Then Brian had a phone call from the centre.
20 MR BEASLEY: So Brian went down to the medical clinic then, did he?
MS ROOPE: That's right.
MR BEASLEY: And when was the next time you saw either Brian or Lesley? 25 MS ROOPE: Brian came back half an hour --- from the medical centre, said she had the flu.
MR BEASLEY: When he'd said to you that she had the flu, did he say that she had 30 had a flu test?
MS ROOPE: No, they said she had the flu and they were keeping her in overnight.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Did he tell you that she'd seen --- Mrs Bacon had seen 35 a nurse or a doctor?
MS ROOPE: Oh, he might have done. Yes, he probably did. Yes, she would have seen the doctor.
40 MR BEASLEY: I'm assuming you don't really recall that, Mrs Roope?
MS ROOPE: No, he just said --- he was in a state. He just said she had the flu and they were keeping her in overnight. And we had to ---
45 MR BEASLEY: All right. The next day Mrs Bacon remained in the medical clinic; correct?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1768 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: Correct.
MR BEASLEY: Did you see her at all that day?
5 MS ROOPE: Yes, I did.
MR BEASLEY: You saw her in the medical clinic?
MS ROOPE: I did. 10 MR BEASLEY: Did you have a discussion about how she was feeling?
MS ROOPE: Well, she just said in the morning she did not feel too bad. She said she did not feel too bad. She was sitting up, feeling not too bad. 15 MR BEASLEY: Was she in, like, a room with a bed, a separate room?
MS ROOPE: Yes.
20 MR BEASLEY: And what about her leg pain; was that still troubling her?
MS ROOPE: That was bad.
MR BEASLEY: That was still bad, did you say? 25 MS ROOPE: That was still bad.
MR BEASLEY: And she remained in the clinic that night?
30 MS ROOPE: That's right.
MR BEASLEY: And she was still in the clinic all through 18 March?
MS ROOPE: That's right. 35 MR BEASLEY: Did you see her on that day?
MS ROOPE: Now, hang on. Tuesday was --- let me have a look.
40 MR BEASLEY: I'm talking about the day before you get back to Australia now.
MS ROOPE: Yes, she was in that centre all day.
MR BEASLEY: All right. And did you see her then? 45 MS ROOPE: I saw her in the morning and in the afternoon.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1769 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: I think what you want to look for is paragraph 18 of your statement where you say you saw her in the morning of the 18th. You say your temperature was taken. Do you know why your temperature was taken?
5 MS ROOPE: Well, I just presumed perhaps they thought I had the flu. I don't know.
MR BEASLEY: Who took your temperature; was it one of the doctors or a nurse?
MS ROOPE: It was a young fellow, I don't --- 10 MR BEASLEY: Did they tell you why they were taking your temperature?
MS ROOPE: No, they did not.
15 MR BEASLEY: Did you feel unwell at all?
MS ROOPE: No.
MR BEASLEY: What about Mr Bacon? Did they provide any treatment to him or 20 did they take his temperature?
MS ROOPE: They took ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, you've dropped out there, Mrs Roope. You might have to --- 25 MS ROOPE: They took Brian --- I presume they took Brian's temperature on the Tuesday --- and gave him five pills to take.
MR BEASLEY: Yes. 30 MS ROOPE: Yes, and then the next morning my temperature was taken and I was given five pills to take.
MR BEASLEY: Can you tell us what those pills are? 35 MS ROOPE: I can. Hang on.
MR BEASLEY: That's the box you are looking at, is it?
40 MS ROOPE: Yes, that's the box. I hung onto it.
MR BEASLEY: That's right.
MS ROOPE: I have to spell it out to you. 45 MR BEASLEY: All right.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1770 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: It's O-s-e-l-t-a-m-i-v-i-r, phosphate capsules, 75 milligrams.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. I'm sure someone got that. It might be called Tamiflu as a shorthand. Were you told why you were given those tablets? 5 MS ROOPE: No. We were told just take these tablets. That was it.
MR BEASLEY: You weren't diagnosed with any condition?
10 MS ROOPE: No. No.
MR BEASLEY: No?
MS ROOPE: No. 15 MR BEASLEY: All right. You had a conversation with Mrs Bacon, but you also said you asked one of the medical staff, I think it has "medial" staff in your statement, but medical staff --- that's all right.
20 MS ROOPE: A few mistakes I found.
MR BEASLEY: Don't worry about it. But the person you spoke to in the medical clinic, was that the doctor, Dr von Watzdorf?
25 MS ROOPE: At the time, I did not know she was a doctor.
MR BEASLEY: But do you think it was Dr von Watzdorf?
MS ROOPE: Yes, it would have been her. Yes, I saw her on TV a few days later. 30 MR BEASLEY: And she told you that Mrs Bacon had the flu?
MS ROOPE: Yes, it is only the flu, nothing to worry about.
35 MR BEASLEY: Did she tell you that Mrs Bacon had had a flu test and that it was negative?
MS ROOPE: No.
40 MR BEASLEY: Did she tell you that she'd had a flu test at all?
MS ROOPE: No. No. Not anything.
MR BEASLEY: I know you went back and saw Mrs Bacon later that afternoon, 45 that's the afternoon of the 18th.
MS ROOPE: That's right.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1771 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: And you say in your statement in [19] she didn't look good.
MRS ROOPE: No. 5 MR BEASLEY: Can you explain to the Commissioner how she appeared then, in more detail?
MS ROOPE: At that time, when I went down to the room, she was laying down, she 10 looked dreadful, she had oxygen, I didn't even know what that was at the time, oxygen in the nose, she still had--- and she had the drip on. She didn't have the drip on the day before, or that night, whatever, and she was absolutely --- she was croaky, she could hardly talk. Her voice was really dry and croaky.
15 MR BEASLEY: Did you yourself ask her any questions about how she was doing?
MS ROOPE: No. She just said she did not feel good. She said, "I don't feel good", yeah, "I don't feel good."
20 MR BEASLEY: And you say in paragraph 19 of the statement you gave police that in the afternoon visit to Mrs Bacon, that you asked the medical staff about her condition to which they again stated it was only the flu? Does that mean ---
MS ROOPE: It was only the flu. 25 MR BEASLEY: Does the Commissioner take it that you actually asked twice, the morning and afternoon, what is wrong with her?
MS ROOPE: And the next morning when they thought we were getting off. I still 30 asked then. I asked three times, at least three times.
MR BEASLEY: And each time you were told it was the flu, were you?
MS ROOPE: That's right. 35 MR BEASLEY: And was that by the same doctor, Dr von Watzdorf or was that by different members of the medical clinic, staff of the medical clinic?
MS ROOPE: It was another staff member. It was another staff member we were 40 dealing with, whoever she was. She kept on saying, "It's only the flu. It's only the flu."
MR BEASLEY: Was that staff member a nurse?
45 MS ROOPE: You dropped out, sorry.
MR BEASLEY: Was that a nurse from the medical clinic that was telling you that?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1772 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: Yes, she seemed to me --- I wondered perhaps if she might have been like a head nurse. Nobody introduced themselves as to who they were. We didn't know who they were. 5 MR BEASLEY: They don't have a badge on?
MS ROOPE: They might have done.
10 MR BEASLEY: Right. I don't know.
MS ROOPE: No.
MR BEASLEY: Were any of the medical staff in the clinic wearing masks? 15 MS ROOPE: On the Wednesday afternoon, yes.
MR BEASLEY: That's the last day, is it?
20 MS ROOPE: Yes. Yes. I noticed all of them had masks on.
MR BEASLEY: Were there --- did you notice many passengers in the clinic waiting to be assessed?
25 MS ROOPE: Yes. And with masks on.
MR BEASLEY: They all had masks on?
MS ROOPE: (inaudible) 30 MR BEASLEY: You said yes? Okay. How many people did you notice, approximately, waiting to be seen?
MS ROOPE: Half a dozen, at least. 35 MR BEASLEY: Was the reason you were asking what was wrong with Mrs Bacon, was that because you had a concern about coronavirus?
MS ROOPE: That --- by then, yes, by then yes, I had. Yep. 40 MR BEASLEY: Did either Dr von Watzdorf or the nurse that you spoke to that said it was only the flu, did they ever have a discussion with you about the possibility of COVID-19, Mrs Bacon having COVID-19?
45 MS ROOPE: No. No. Definitely not.
MR BEASLEY: You were told, I think, to go back to the medical clinic really early
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1773 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
on the morning of the 19th, at 2.00 am?
MS ROOPE: That's right. That's right.
5 MR BEASLEY: Why were you told to go back at 2.00 am to the medical clinic?
MS ROOPE: We were just told to go there at 2.00 am. There was no reason given. We were just told to.
10 MR BEASLEY: At what point were you told that Mrs Bacon would be disembarking the ship and getting an ambulance transfer; do you remember that?
MS ROOPE: It would have been --- oh, yes, I think Brian went back down in the evening. Yes. 15 MR BEASLEY: Is that the evening of the 18th? The night before you get back to Australia?
MS ROOPE: Yes. Yes. I think Brian just popped down to see her. And that 20 might --- it might have been --- that's where I got confused. I can't remember if it was from then or whether we had a phone call in the cabin.
MR BEASLEY: All right.
25 MS ROOPE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Did someone from the medical clinic tell you that Mrs Bacon was going to require an ambulance transfer or did they tell Mr Bacon who then told you?
30 MS ROOPE: I think they told Mr Bacon. I think they told Mr Bacon, yeah.
MR BEASLEY: Did he say anything to you as to why Mrs Bacon required an ambulance transfer?
35 MS ROOPE: No, they didn't. They didn't. They just said she needs to go in an ambulance to the hospital.
MR BEASLEY: They didn't say one way or the other whether it was in relation to her leg or whether it was in relation to the illness she had? 40 MS ROOPE: No. No. It probably would have been in relation to the illness, but they told us nothing. They told us nothing.
MR BEASLEY: You were speculating, I think, in that last bit of that answer, were 45 you?
MS ROOPE: Yes.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1774 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: That's all right.
So when you got to the medical clinic at 2.00 am on the morning of the 19th of 5 March, I think you were told to bring Mrs Bacon's passports and your own passports; is that right?
MS ROOPE: No, that was on the Wednesday morning. On the Wednesday morning we had to take those, yes. 10 MR BEASLEY: And there was some complaint made when you went at 2.00 am on 19 March about not having your luggage with you?
MS ROOPE: Yes, "Where is your luggage?" 15 MR BEASLEY: Who were you speaking to that said that?
MS ROOPE: This other person, whoever she was.
20 MR BEASLEY: The nurse?
MS ROOPE: Yes. Oh, dear.
MR BEASLEY: I'm looking again at paragraph 23 of your statement. You said: 25 I questioned why we had to be there when Les was going in an ambulance. Once again, I questioned why we had to go with when we were told it was only "The Flu." She confirmed yes it was only the flu....
30 Is that a reference again to the nurse or to Dr Von Watzdorf?
MRS ROOPE: That's Dr von --- she said to me ---I told her I'm --- we're going home. We're not going with Lesley, we're going home, and she said, "Okay, that's your decision" and I said then "Because it is only the flu?" And she said, "Yes, that's 35 correct, it's only the flu."
MR BEASLEY: In the statement you have the words "there was nothing to worry about." Was that something Dr von Watzdorf said to you?
40 MS ROOPE: Yes, she might have said that. She probably did say that.
MR BEASLEY: Do you have a memory of that, or you are not sure?
MS ROOPE: I have that memory, I seem to have that memory of that. And it was in 45 that situation that we were in, in that room at 2 o'clock in the morning that "there was nothing to worry about."
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1775 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: And that caused you to make the decision not to go in the ambulance with Mrs Bacon, is that right?
MS ROOPE: That's right. 5 MR BEASLEY: So Mr Bacon went with --- sorry, neither of you went in the ambulance; is that right?
MS ROOPE: No, that's right. 10 MR BEASLEY: What time did you get off the ship?
MS ROOPE: It would have been about 10.00 am.
15 MR BEASLEY: Had Mr Bacon or you heard anything as to --- did you know where Mrs Bacon was being taken, first of all, which hospital?
MS ROOPE: They told Brian, Mr Bacon, she was going to St Vincent's Hospital.
20 MR BEASLEY: Just pause there for a second. When you say "they", is that the ship said that ---
MS ROOPE: The medical staff said ---
25 MR BEASLEY: --- Mrs Bacon was going to St Vincent's. When did you find out she was going to the RPA?
MS ROOPE: We found out when their son picked us up and he told us that she was at the RPA. 30 MR BEASLEY: Mr and Mrs Bacon's son picked you up when you got off the ship, did they?
MS ROOPE: That's right. 35 MR BEASLEY: Before you got off the ship, Mr Bacon had to pay a medical --- a bill to the medical clinic for all the services that had been provided to Mrs Bacon; is that right?
40 MS ROOPE: That's right.
MR BEASLEY: That was about $4,500 roughly?
MS ROOPE: $5,401. 45 MR BEASLEY: All right. I got my numbers confused. You had to lend him some money, did you?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1776 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS ROOPE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Was he aware about that he was going to be charged? 5 MS ROOPE: I don't think so. I don't think so. No.
MR BEASLEY: All right. In any event you found out that Mrs Bacon had been taken to the RPA. Did Mrs Bacon's son tell you how she was? Did he know? 10 MS ROOPE: Yes. As we got off --- I phoned him when we got off the ship ---
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, you cut off when we got to getting off the ship.
15 MS ROOPE: We got off the ship. The son rang me and said “mum was in isolation at RPA”.
MR BEASLEY: Before you got off the ship, were either you or Mr Bacon given any masks to wear? 20 MS ROOPE: Nope.
MR BEASLEY: I take it --- did you notice many people wearing masks on the ship?
25 MS ROOPE: Not a great amount. A few. A few.
MR BEASLEY: What about when --- how many people was the size of your group when you disembarked the ship?
30 MS ROOPE: Oh, say 20.
MR BEASLEY: And it was a fairly quick process, I understand?
MS ROOPE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 35 MR BEASLEY: And you were taken straight home, I take it?
MS ROOPE: Oh, yes. Definitely straight home.
40 MR BEASLEY: And you went straight into your 14-day self-isolation?
MS ROOPE: I did a month.
MR BEASLEY: Yes, and sadly, I know that you were told a couple of days later 45 that your friend had died?
MS ROOPE: That's right.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1777 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: Did you at any stage have any symptoms of COVID yourself?
MS ROOPE: Just off colour. Just a bit off colour. 5 MR BEASLEY: Did you ever have a test?
MS ROOPE: No, I was told not to unless I got the symptoms.
10 MR BEASLEY: Who told you not to?
MS ROOPE: The Health Department.
MR BEASLEY: When was New South Wales Health first in contact with you after 15 you got off the cruise?
MS ROOPE: About ---
MR BEASLEY: You dropped out again, sorry, Mrs Roope. 20 MS ROOPE: That's okay. Possibly the next day.
MR BEASLEY: And was that to inform you by email or some other means that there had been a positive test for COVID? 25 MS ROOPE: They rang me. They rang me.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Someone rang you and what did they say?
30 MS ROOPE: --- that she's positive, confirming Lesley was positive and how was I, how was I.
MR BEASLEY: And what did you say? Were you feeling off colour, as you call it, by now? 35 MS ROOPE: I wasn't then. I was fine. I felt fine.
MR BEASLEY: When did you start to feel unwell?
40 MS ROOPE: Perhaps a day later I began to feel --- nothing much, just a bit off colour.
MR BEASLEY: What do you mean --- can I ask you what you mean by "off-colour"? Did you feel fluey, a runny nose or a sore throat? 45 MS ROOPE: No, no, none of that. I was lethargic.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1778 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: Did you have a headache?
MS ROOPE: No, no, none of those.
5 MR BEASLEY: Did you have a lack of energy?
MS ROOPE: Oh, sort of, but not really. It is very difficult because I'm so fit, anything a little bit iffy, I think, oh, and I slept well. I slept like a log.
10 MR BEASLEY: Is that unusual?
MS ROOPE: No, I sleep well. No. I can't say I can pinpoint anything that I could say, "Yes, I had it."
15 MR BEASLEY: All right. Did you have any other communications from New South Wales Health?
MS ROOPE: About another week later I think they rang me seeing how I was. I'm still fine. And that has been it. I've heard nothing since. 20 MR BEASLEY: Can I just, so I understand, when New South Wales Health contacted you, they knew you had been travelling with Mrs Bacon, correct?
MS ROOPE: Yes. Yes, they did. 25 MR BEASLEY: But they still didn't suggest a test?
MS ROOPE: No. No.
30 MR BEASLEY: They were aware Mrs Bacon was a confirmed case in the RPA ICU?
MS ROOPE: Yes.
35 MR BEASLEY: Do you know if Mr Bacon was told to get a test?
MS ROOPE: Their son, Gary, he took his father to be tested.
MR BEASLEY: Right, and do you know what the result was of that? 40 MS ROOPE: They said he was positive but it was so --- the description was it was so slight he would be okay in a day or two. That's what he was told.
MR BEASLEY: That was the advice from whom? 45 MS ROOPE: Oh, from ---
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1779 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: You dropped out then. Did Mr Bacon have a test in a hospital?
MS ROOPE: Yes. I think he took him to Wollongong Hospital ---
5 MR BEASLEY: And he would have got a phone call afterwards?
MS ROOPE: Yes. And he was --- was very, a very mild case of something. That was the description. A day or two and he'd be fine, but Brian said he felt fine.
10 MR BEASLEY: Anyway, that's what Mr Bacon told you he was told?
MS ROOPE: That's right.
MR BEASLEY: All right, and at no stage have you been --- were you advised that 15 you should have a test as well?
MS ROOPE: No.
MR BEASLEY: And I assume you are feeling fine now? 20 MS ROOPE: Fine.
MR BEASLEY: All right. Mrs Roope, given the Commissioner's Terms of Reference to inquire into this cruise to New Zealand and back, is there anything you 25 feel that I haven't covered in questions that you think the Commissioner should know about, about what occurred on the cruise?
MS ROOPE: On the cruise. The only thing is I suddenly remembered today that on the tender going across to Akaroa, there was a lady on there and she coughed from 30 the minute we got on until we got off.
MR BEASLEY: Did you say “coughed”?
MS ROOPE: Coughing. She was just sitting opposite from me and she was 35 coughing. It just went through my mind, oh, I hope she's okay. Yes, she's fine. Apart from that ---
MR BEASLEY: Was that on the bus or on the tender to the shore?
40 MS ROOPE: On the tender going across to Akaroa.
MR BEASLEY: Anything else you think that the Commissioner should know about?
45 MS ROOPE: Not particularly on the ship. All I want to know is why did we not get tested on and off and why did we not get checked through Customs.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1780 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: I understand that perfectly. Mrs Roope, are you happy for me to tender as an Exhibit in this Inquiry the statement you gave to the New South Wales Police?
5 MS ROOPE: Yes, that's fine. Some of it needs to be altered a bit.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. I will tender a statement of Josephine Roope, given to the New South Wales Police Force dated 16 April 2020, which is Exhibit 76.
10 EXHIBIT #76 - STATEMENT OF JOSEPHINE ROOPE GIVEN TO NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE FORCE DATED 16.04.2020
15 MR BEASLEY: Mrs Roope, they are all the questions I have for you. Thank you very much for answering them. I think the Commissioner might want to ask you a couple of questions and there might be someone else who applies to ask you a question. Thank you for answering mine.
20 MS ROOPE: That's a pleasure.
COMMISSIONER: Mrs Roope, when you disembarked with Brian you remember that you had your temperatures taken; is that right?
25 MS ROOPE: No. No. I think that was a misprint on the statement, here.
COMMISSIONER: I see.
MS ROOPE: There is a misprint on the statement and it said, "I thought it was 30 strange that our temperatures were" and obviously "not" has been forgotten, not taken. Our temperature was not taken on or off the ship.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you. That explains what I wanted to ask about. Are there any applications? 35 MR McLURE: Commissioner, I do have an application. Can I pass a document to you, please?
MR MCLURE: This is a document in due course I’d invite to be tendered. 40 COMMISSIONER: This times up with the Oseltamivir, does it?
MR MCLURE: I would only wish to put questions about this if you would find that of assistance. 45 COMMISSIONER: How about I ask? I don't think there's going to be any adverse findings.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1781 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
Mrs Roope, I've been shown what appears to be your case summary notes from the medical clinic on the ship. And it has a note concerning your attendance on 18 March. Do you remember you said you got five tablets? 5 MS ROOPE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER: In the language of the medical summary, it says in the notes when you were first presenting: 10 Close contact ILI and requesting prophylaxis treatment.
Now in English, that probably translates as meaning you told someone, or someone told them, that you were a close contact of somebody with flu and that you were 15 interested in a preventive or protective treatment. Does that ring a bell with you?
MS ROOPE: No. No. No. I did not ask for treatment.
MR BEASLEY: That's not the only interpretation of that document. 20 COMMISSIONER: It's the only interpretation of prophylaxis.
MS ROOPE: I was just given them. I was told and given.
25 COMMISSIONER: But did they say, "Look, this will prevent you from getting the flu"?
MS ROOPE: They might have done. I don’t know, they just said, "We suggest you take these tablets." 30 COMMISSIONER: Did you discuss with them that you had been in close contact with Les?
MS ROOPE: Yes, because they knew we were. They knew I was in close contact 35 with her.
COMMISSIONER: And by then, Les suffering from something called the flu ---
MS ROOPE: Yes. 40 COMMISSIONER: --- was one of her problems; is that right?
MS ROOPE: Yes.
45 COMMISSIONER: So what other interpretation is there possible for prophylaxis? None?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1782 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: No. My concern was that the ship's medical clinic --- as I understood Mrs Roope's evidence, she said that her temperature was taken on the initiative of the ship's medical clinic, and then the treatment was given to her on the initiative of the ship's medical clinic. That is, the tablets, and that they had told her 5 after she had enquired that Mrs Bacon had the flu, hence the words “close contact ILI”. In other words, I don't know that this necessarily proves one way or the other if it is relevant, that it was Mrs Roope who was going and seeking attention, other than attention being given to her.
10 COMMISSIONER: I understand that and I'm not interested.
MR McLURE: Could I just say ---
COMMISSIONER: If I should be interested, tell me. 15 MR MCLURE: Can I just draw your attention to the first page, about point 2 on the page involves "Patient sent to clinic for public health screening"?
COMMISSIONER: Yes, and it's repeated elsewhere as well. 20 MR MCLURE: Can I mention two other matters. I wanted to ask Mrs Roope about a fee, if there was one, for that attendance and the issue in relation to masks.
25 EXAMINATION BY MR McLURE SC
MR MCLURE: Mrs Roope, were you told that you were not going to be charged for your attendance at the medical centre for the health screening? 30 MS ROOPE: No.
MR BEASLEY: I object to the word "health screening." The witness hasn't agreed she went for a health screening. 35 COMMISSIONER: You're right. That may be in the formal note. It doesn't mean it was in any dealing.
MR MCLURE: Mrs Roope, when you came to the medical centre, were you told 40 whether or not you were going to be charged for seeing the doctor?
MS ROOPE: No, there was no mention, no mention.
MR MCLURE: And you weren't charged for seeing the doctor, were you? 45 MS ROOPE: Yes, I was. Oh, now --- no, because underneath my statement it had waived. The fee was waived.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1783 MS J. ROOPE XN MR McLURE SC
MR MCLURE: Thank you.
Do you remember on one of the occasions when you attended the medical centre to 5 visit Mrs Bacon, Dr von Watzdorf reminded you that when you came to see Mrs Bacon you should come wearing a mask?
MS ROOPE: No.
10 MR MCLURE: You don't recall that?
MS ROOPE: No.
MR MCLURE: Did someone from the medical centre give you a mask on the first 15 occasion that you went there on the 18th?
MS ROOPE: No.
MR MCLURE: Did you receive a mask from anyone at any time while you were on 20 the Ruby Princess?
MS ROOPE: No.
MR MCLURE: Nothing further. 25 MR BEASLEY: I have a few questions that arise over that.
FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC 30
MR BEASLEY: Mrs Roope, you said your fees were waived. I have no idea how this operates, so you will have to help me and the Commissioner. I have in front of me an invoice to you for medical charges of $121.40 which include for 35 a nurse/paramedic consultation, not a doctor, and for the tablets you were given. Were you --- did you pay first and then get a refund, or did you never have to pay?
MS ROOPE: Well ---
40 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, we've lost you.
MS ROOPE: I presume it just automatically comes from the medallion that you wear, out of your bank account.
45 MR BEASLEY: Let me try again. As I said, I've got an invoice and anyone should feel free to help me out with this, but I have an invoice to you with your cabin number and the name of someone that's called a bill preparer, which has the letters
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1784 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
"RN" after their name, which I assume means registered nurse, but I don't know. And it's for total medical charges of $121.40, of which $59 is to see the nurse, or a paramedic, and $62 is for the medication you mentioned.
5 MS ROOPE: Hang on just a second.
MR BEASLEY: It looks as if it was charged to your medallion and then waived from the medallion so you didn't actually have to pay for it in the end; is that right? Don't worry about looking at anything, Mrs Roope. You don't recall having to pay? 10 MS ROOPE: Actually, it was $133. $133 and underneath on my statement, when my statement was finalised, underneath that it got "waived" underneath it.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you for that. 15 What I will do, Commissioner, first of all, I will tender Mr McClure's case summary document for Mrs Roope, which we've just identified through her name. That will be Exhibit 77.
20 EXHIBIT #77 - MR MCLURE'S CASE SUMMARY DOCUMENT FOR MRS ROOPE
25 COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: And rather than tendering the charges, I will tender the other document which Mr McClure has just given me which is some form of documentation which shows that there is some sort of computer waiver of the 30 medical charges on 18 March.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: I will identify that as, good God, a document marked "Roope J, 35 Mrs Re - C518". That is Exhibit 78.
EXHIBIT #78 - DOCUMENT MARKED ROOPE, J. MRS RE C518
40 COMMISSIONER: Thank you. I should tell people that I'm likely to infer from the combination of Exhibits 77 and 78 that in the medical records, the rubric "public health screening" was adopted in order to signal that there would not be a charge.
45 MR BEASLEY: Probably ask Mr McClure that rather than me but I'm sure that's right.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1785 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
COMMISSIONER: I don't think it is worth spending a whole lot more time on that issue.
MR BEASLEY: No. 5 COMMISSIONER: And unless anyone misunderstands, "public health screening" would be an excellent way of describing something for which there should not be a charge.
10 Mrs Roope, that completes your evidence. Thank you very much for your help. I'm sorry about the loss of your friend and I assure you that it is most useful for me to have been able to consider and receive your evidence. I'm very grateful for your effort. And on a happier moment, happy birthday for tomorrow.
15 MS ROOPE: Thank you very, very much. Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: Thanks, Mrs Roope.
MS ROOPE: Thank you. 20
THE WITNESS WITHDREW [3.04 PM]
25 MR BEASLEY: Mrs De Lamotte is here to give evidence in person. It may take a moment to set that up. She's in a wheelchair. I don't know whether you want to leave the room?
COMMISSIONER: I will. Can inquiries be made about what is the technical 30 problem? Is that just the state of Australia in terms of .... it doesn't sound like --- it is even worse than some of the systems I've had in courtrooms, et cetera. The amount of breaks ---
MR BEASLEY: Remember when we were going to get fibre to the premises? 35 COMMISSIONER: Exactly. Just let me know when you are ready.
ADJOURNED [3.04 PM] 40
RESUMED [3.10 PM]
45 MR BEASLEY: In relation to the AVL difficulties, when we are doing a webcast, that is, when we have a witness in here, it is a different service to --- when it's a webcast we are relying on the Department of Premier and Cabinet's Wi-Fi facilities
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1786 MS J. ROOPE XN MR BEASLEY SC
or Wi-Fi, so it's not as good. I'm not sure that means you can do anything about it.
COMMISSIONER: It's not self-explanatory that a DPC facility should be substandard but what has happened today is substandard. Maybe DPC should get 5 better services.
MR BEASLEY: Is that in your Terms of Reference or is that other related matters?
COMMISSIONER: Other related matters. 10 MR BEASLEY: Yes, I think so. Commissioner, Mrs De Lamotte is here.
COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
15 LYNDA SUSAN DE LAMOTTE, AFFIRMED [3.11 PM]
EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC 20
MR BEASLEY: First of all, have I just said your name correctly, Mrs De Lamotte?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. I prefer Lynda. 25 MR BEASLEY: For the purposes of this hearing, I'll have to stick with Mrs De Lamotte. I'm sorry. Can you give the Commissioner your full name, please?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Lynda Susan De Lamotte. 30 MR BEASLEY: You were a passenger on the Ruby Princess when it did a cruise to New Zealand on 8 to 19 March?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. 35 MR BEASLEY: After that cruise in May, you provided a statement which you have signed, to the New South Wales Police?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. 40 MR BEASLEY: Do you have a copy of that statement dated 20 May with you?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
45 MR BEASLEY: I will ask you some questions generally first and then some specific ones about the cruise. If at any time you want to refer to your statement, please let me know, and sometimes I may ask you to look at a paragraph in your statement.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1787 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS DE LAMOTTE: Okay.
MR BEASLEY: You said this was not your first cruise, it was in fact your eighth? 5 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, correct.
MR BEASLEY: And you've also done some cruises on Carnival ships before?
10 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, four I think.
MR BEASLEY: One of the things that occurred was when passengers went to have their meals, they were regularly advised to use hand sanitiser? Do you recall that?
15 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, it was stationed at every entrance to every dining area and a crew person was standing there asking you to sanitise your hands.
MR BEASLEY: Did that mean really you couldn't even get in to eat unless you'd done that? 20 MS DE LAMOTTE: No, they would let you through if you didn't, because I was in a wheelchair and not getting my own food, I didn't have to. It wasn't compulsory, they were just asking you to.
25 MR BEASLEY: I see. Okay. But from what you observed everyone that was going in was asked to use sanitiser?
MS DE LAMOTTE: “Please, would you sanitise”.
30 MR BEASLEY: Was that the same for previous cruises you'd been on?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, that was a new thing.
MR BEASLEY: I'm just wondering, comparing to the previous cruises you've been 35 on, in terms of things like personal hygiene and sanitation measures, was there anything different on this Ruby Princess cruise than prior cruises, other than the hand sanitiser?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Not in the beginning. Part way through the cruise they did 40 make announcements asking us to continually hand wash for at least 20 seconds, use the sanitisers and then they started asking us if possible to refrain from using public bathrooms, to go to your cabin if possible.
MR BEASLEY: When you say "they asked you", were these announcements over 45 the PA system?
MS DE LAMOTTE: There were some and there was one in writing left in our cabin
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1788 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR BEASLEY SC
as well.
MR BEASLEY: Was there any mention of coronavirus during those announcements or was it just --- 5 MS DE LAMOTTE: I think it was to help keep the ship clear, virus-free.
MR BEASLEY: Virus-free?
10 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: So it wasn't coronavirus, but virus free?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. 15 MR BEASLEY: While we are on the topic of on-board announcements, I will cover it now. Did you hear any announcements over the PA speaker that if anyone onboard had an illness like a sore throat or a cough or a fever, that they should go to the medical clinic? 20 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, there were announcements made. In the daily newsletter there were a list of symptoms to look out for and also one or two of the sheets left in the cabin. If you had any of these symptoms, please go and see the guest services.
25 MR BEASLEY: Just on that daily newsletter, would I be right in understanding that is a newsletter that might say these are the activities we've got on today and this is what the weather is going to be like, that sort of thing?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Correct, yes. I think it was in one of those as well, the list of 30 symptoms to look out for.
MR BEASLEY: And to go to the clinic if you ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: I think it said guest services, because that's why I went to guest 35 services.
MR BEASLEY: Was there any indication if you needed --- if you went to the medical clinic with one of those respiratory-type symptoms that the service would be free? 40 MS DE LAMOTTE: No. There was no indication. Because I asked at guest services what it would cost if you tested.
MR BEASLEY: I'll come back to that. But you don't recall that being said over the 45 PA?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, otherwise I wouldn't have asked what it cost.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1789 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MR BEASLEY: All right. Okay. Let me go back to the start of the cruise, there was a delay in getting onboard?
5 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: And you were advised that there was a delay by getting a text message?
10 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, we hadn't actually left home at the beginning, the first text came about 10.30 am in the morning. We weren't due to board until 4.00 pm. So we were aiming to leave to get there around 3-ish. We usually try and get there a bit early. So we hadn't even left home when we got the first one, but our boarding hadn't changed. Because we had a late one anyway. It remained at around 4.00 pm 15 anyway.
MR BEASLEY: I was going to say, you had a specific boarding time of 4.00 pm, did you?
20 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, I believe they were set to what deck you were on, the higher up, the later your boarding time.
MR BEASLEY: The text was from the cruise line, was it?
25 MS DE LAMOTTE: I believe it was from Princess. I still have them.
MR BEASLEY: What reason were you given for the delay, do you recall?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I don't recall in the first text. No. 30 MR BEASLEY: These are texts you would be able to send to the Inquiry though?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, I still have them.
35 MR BEASLEY: You say in paragraph 6 of your statement when you were getting onboard the ship you saw someone as what you've described as “full hazmat gear”?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, it says foil and paper --- foil and white. I'm actually now trying to remember if it was foil or if it was just a white suit. But she was definitely 40 completely covered. She had a face mask on and I don't know if she had separate gloves or whether it was part of the white suit she was wearing. She was the one --- you got an ID tag to go onboard and she scanned that. My husband went --- got sent down a separate queue and he was just scanned by a crew member wearing white gloves and normal uniform. So we wondered later why she was wearing what 45 appeared to be a hazmat-type suit. It should probably say hazmat-type suit.
MR BEASLEY: I was going to ask whether it was a member of the crew, but it
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obviously was if you were being scanned on?
MS DE LAMOTTE: We assumed it was because she was at the front of the queue scanning us. 5 MR BEASLEY: I want to ask you about paragraph 9 of your statement. Just in relation to this, a few days before, so three days before the cruise, you got an email offering you a credit if you didn't cancel your booking?
10 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, or transfer to another cruise later.
MR BEASLEY: Did you keep that email?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I believe so. I believe I've got it. 15 MR BEASLEY: Would you be able to send it to the Inquiry?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
20 MR BEASLEY: Did you check that email for the purposes of doing the statement to the police?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I think I just mentioned it because it seemed absurd that we got it and yet we didn't actually qualify. 25 MR BEASLEY: I see. You had to be leaving from 9 March onwards?
MS DE LAMOTTE: And we were starting on the 8th, so we wondered afterwards why bother sending that to us unless the dates were wrong or something. It didn't 30 make any sense.
MR BEASLEY: You said in your statement that you only disembarked the ship twice, Dunedin, and Napier. Dunedin, don't worry about the dates, but it was about 12 March and Napier was of course the last stop you were able to make on the 15th 35 of March.
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Before discussing anything you might have done onshore, when 40 you were onboard the ship you went to different restaurants to eat from time to time?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Mainly only two.
MR BEASLEY: I think you've said which ones they were in your statement. 45 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, one called Michelangelo and the other one was just the general buffet.
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MR BEASLEY: Michelangelo is table service, is it?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. 5 MR BEASLEY: And the buffet ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: I think we went twice, actually.
10 MR BEASLEY: And the buffet is where you were serving your own food or was someone serving ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: A bit of both. They would help you.
15 MR BEASLEY: Did you go to any shows onboard the ship?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Not in the big theatre. We did see a couple in what they called the Explorer's Bar. They had a stage.
20 MR BEASLEY: How big is that? Give me an estimate how many people you think ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: Bit bigger than this room, maybe this size plus a stage area. Probably double, actually. 25 MR BEASLEY: A couple hundred people or a hundred people?
MS DE LAMOTTE: 150. They were pretty sort of spread out, the seating, and there was a dance floor near the stage. 30 MR BEASLEY: You say in paragraph 18 that you started to get a sore throat halfway through the cruise.
MS DE LAMOTTE: Approximately, yeah. I think so. 35 MR BEASLEY: Can you link that to where the ship was in any port?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I think we'd been to Dunedin and got back onboard and I think it was maybe the next day, and the day after. It was only a 24-hour, 36-hour thing 40 and when it came back is when I went to guest services.
MR BEASLEY: So pausing there, then. Dunedin might have, been, I think, 13 March. In any event, halfway through the cruise. Just describe your symptoms?
45 MS DE LAMOTTE: Just purely a sore throat. That's all it was.
MR BEASLEY: But you didn't at first go to the medical clinic?
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MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I didn't go anywhere. When it came back two days later -- - it had gone and come back, and that's when I went to the guest services desk.
5 MR BEASLEY: So it fully resolved?
MS DE LAMOTTE: The first time it went, yes.
MR BEASLEY: Did you have any other symptoms, other than a sore throat? 10 MS DE LAMOTTE: No.
MR BEASLEY: When the sore throat came back, did it come back with any other symptoms? 15 MS DE LAMOTTE: No.
MR BEASLEY: What made you go to guest services?
20 MS DE LAMOTTE: The fact that I had two so close together. Like, it had gone and come back again and I thought that's a bit odd. Like, I do get sore throats from snoring, it'll just go away during the day or overnight, but this hung around for at least 24 hours, went and came back. I said to my husband that's not normal, let's go and enquire and they didn't seem that interested. 25 MR BEASLEY: What I was asking --- it's my fault. Why did you choose to go to guest services rather than the medical clinic first?
MS DE LAMOTTE: That's what the advice was. If you thought you might have 30 symptoms, go to guest services. If you were extremely ill, then they said contact the medical centre directly, but as I only had a bit of a sore throat, I went to guest services.
MR BEASLEY: So this advice, was this in writing or advice from the PA system? 35 MS DE LAMOTTE: I would have to check the pamphlets. I don't remember the announcements. But I'm fairly certain it --- or maybe in the newsletter, I don't remember. But the impression was given to me if I had a symptom or thought I might have a symptom, go to guest services. 40 MR BEASLEY: Am I right, the impression you were left with was if you had mild symptoms to go to guest services, if you were feeling extremely unwell, you went straight to the medical centre?
45 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, or call them.
MR BEASLEY: Call them. So you went to guest services. Where is guest services
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on the ship?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I think it is Level 6?
5 MR BEASLEY: Is that like an information ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, any enquiries about anything generally, they answer there.
10 MR BEASLEY: You spoke to someone there?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, I queued up and a girl called us over and asked what we wanted. I said I had a sore throat and it had gone and come back which was unusual. I didn't have any other symptoms but did she think I should go down and get tested? 15 She said, well, it's quite expensive and if you've only got a sore throat, that you get sore throats anyway, probably not. And I asked how much it would cost and she didn't know because it was run by a separate department or something ---
MR BEASLEY: When you said go and get tested, go and get tested for what? 20 MS DE LAMOTTE: Well, I assume COVID-19. The virus. Everyone was talking about the "virus".
COMMISSIONER: Did you say everyone was talking about it? 25 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, they just called it the virus. They didn't call it COVID-19.
COMMISSIONER: It's not rhinovirus, it's coronavirus --- 30 MS DE LAMOTTE: No, it's just called the virus.
COMMISSIONER: The virus.
35 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah.
MR BEASLEY: You told the person at guest services you had a sore throat. Did you volunteer the question, "Should I go and get tested?"
40 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, I explained it had gone and come back which was unusual for me and did she think I should go and get tested ---
COMMISSIONER: This is not a medical person? Not a nurse?
45 MS DE LAMOTTE: No. No.
COMMISSIONER: Why were you asking ---
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MS DE LAMOTTE: Because that was the advice, that was all the information was, go to guest services if you had an enquiry, unless you were extremely ill, then contact the medical centre. 5 COMMISSIONER: Was that a new procedure for you on cruises?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Well, there's never been anything like this on a cruise before.
10 COMMISSIONER: It wasn't a standard procedure for you to speak to the guest services ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, not really. I would have just had Butter Menthols and cruised on, I think, if it hadn't have been for the virus. 15 COMMISSIONER: But the idea of consulting guest services staff with symptoms, that was new to you on this cruise; is that right?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Well, it's never happened to me before at all, so yes, I suppose 20 so.
COMMISSIONER: In terms of a procedure, of which the ship had made you aware, had any other ship on previous cruises told you, "Look, if you're feeling sick, don't go to the medical centre, go to guest services"? 25 MS DE LAMOTTE: No, they hadn't. You were informed where the medical centre was, if you needed it, and that's about all that was mentioned.
COMMISSIONER: Did you ever hear an announcement that if respiratory 30 symptoms were troubling you, you could go to the medical centre at no charge?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No. No.
MR BEASLEY: Have a look at paragraph 18 of your statement, Mrs De Lamotte. 35 So you went to guest services and you say:
I was asked if I had any other symptoms.....
And your answer was, no, it's just a sore throat? 40 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: It seems to be them talking, saying:
45 .....as it was very expensive to attend the clinic.....
Was that this person saying it's expensive to go to the medical centre or expensive to
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go to the medical centre and have the test?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I couldn't remember.
5 MR BEASLEY: Do you recall?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I can't remember clearly whether she was implying it was expensive for the test or expensive to attend the clinic.
10 MR BEASLEY: How did the words "the test" come up? Did they volunteer this or did you say ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I asked, as I had a symptom on the list of symptoms that they kept quoting us, should I go and get tested? And she said did I have any other 15 symptoms? I said no, and she said I probably didn't need to because it was expensive. I was left with the impression that attending the medical centre was expensive and I asked how much was it, or how much was the test, and she couldn't tell me.
20 MR BEASLEY: Right, but did you mention what you were talking about in terms of getting a test? Did you say, "Should I get tested for coronavirus" or just tested?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I don't honestly remember. I would assume I said "tested for the virus" because everyone was still just calling it the "virus" onboard. 25 MR BEASLEY: You say the staff member couldn't tell you the cost?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No.
30 MR BEASLEY: And you say "but made me feel it was unnecessary to attend the clinic."
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
35 MR BEASLEY: Can you tell the Commissioner what you mean by "but made me feel it was unnecessary to attend the clinic"?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Well, as I said, she asked if I had any other symptoms. I replied that I didn't. She said it was probably not necessary and it's very expensive. 40 MR BEASLEY: All right. The sore throat that you had when you went to guest services, did that stay with you?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Only, again, another 24 hours or so and then it went. 45 MR BEASLEY: How were you feeling about the time, say, the night before the ship got into Sydney, the 18th?
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MS DE LAMOTTE: We attended the farewell party, everything was fine.
MR BEASLEY: Just explain the farewell party. That is some sort of party on the 5 night of the 18th, was it?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Where was that held? 10 MS DE LAMOTTE: It was held in an area called the atrium, sort of a multi-level thing which people can look down from different levels on the stairwells. On the ground floor there was dancing and there was music and ---
15 MR BEASLEY: Is it possible I've seen that on television, footage of that, have you seen footage of that party?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, yes and sort of in the ---
20 MR BEASLEY: Sorry, just pausing there. You recognised what you saw on television as being filming of that party that you'd been to?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, there were two different ones I saw on TV. There was that one and the one where they were talking about the staff walking through. That 25 was in one of the restaurants.
MR BEASLEY: Were there a lot of people at this party?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, it was crowded. They were dancing literally shoulder to 30 shoulder, staff and crew --- passengers and crew.
COMMISSIONER: There was no system for social dancing on that occasion?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No. 35 COMMISSIONER: Were you at the St Pat's event, St Patrick's Day?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I don't remember a specific event, no, so, we didn't.
40 COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: The morning of your disembarkation, you were given a specific time?
45 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, for wheelchair disembarking.
MR BEASLEY: Okay. So you were told to go to the Crooners Bar?
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MS DE LAMOTTE: The Crooners Bar, yes.
MR BEASLEY: And it was relatively quick process to disembark the ship? 5 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, we turned up about an hour early of the time we were given and within 15 minutes, not a Princess Cruise person but the people running the luggage collection and all that, their man came onboard and they pushed the wheelchairs off for you and take you through luggage collection and so on. 10 MR BEASLEY: During the disembarkation process, and tell me if it is before as well, were you given any information by anyone whether an announcement onboard or a document as you got off the ship by someone about having to self-isolate for 14 days when you got back? 15 MS DE LAMOTTE: There had been announcements and information in both the newsletter I believe and printed --- that we would have to isolate for 14 days, but included the two days we were sailing back from when the ship turned around in New Zealand waters. That was the start of day 1. So the day we disembarked, you 20 could actually count as day 3.
MR BEASLEY: I think there is a document. That might have been a document from Border Force saying it is from your last port. Does that ring a bell?
25 MS DE LAMOTTE: Could be. That must be from --- from Border Force, yes.
MR BEASLEY: When you left Napier --- that document might have implied that when you left Napier, that is when the 14 days started; does that ring a bell?
30 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Did you ever get another document that the 14 days started from the time you got back in Australia, from the 19th?
35 MS DE LAMOTTE: I think we may have been notified by Princess, possibly, that the first day was actually the day we got back, not the two days sailing.
MR BEASLEY: By someone, your understanding was corrected to the 14 days starting from the 19th? 40 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, and we actually started the next day ourselves because we got a taxi, seen people. So we actually started it from the next day ourselves.
COMMISSIONER: This is a period you understood to be desirably of isolation? 45 MS DE LAMOTTE: At home, not seeing anyone.
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COMMISSIONER: Away from others?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No shopping, no visitors.
5 COMMISSIONER: Did you hear any discussion among fellow passengers about how --- what the better part of three days crossing the Tasman would be regarded as the beginning of an isolation period?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, not really. No, nobody commented when they would start 10 or when they would finish.
COMMISSIONER: And I take it that the passengers did not isolate themselves aboard the ship, I take it?
15 MS DE LAMOTTE: No. No, we didn't, no.
COMMISSIONER: Did anyone from any Government department, State or Commonwealth, Border Force, the cruise line, ever explain to you how days crossing the Tasman would be counted towards an isolation period? 20 MS DE LAMOTTE: Other than the printed stuff left in our cabin, no one actually face-to-face explained it, no.
COMMISSIONER: If the printed stuff I've seen, it doesn't explain anything, but it 25 certainly asserts you can use that time towards your isolation period.
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, it started from the sailing, included those two days sailing.
30 COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
MR BEASLEY: If you just have a look at paragraph 23 of your statement, Mrs De Lamotte? You'll see that you've said that you went home, and got a taxi to your car. Then once you got home you started your period of self-isolation? 35 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Then you say:
40 The media were advising that passengers on the Ruby Princess had died of COVID-19.....
Can I just ask you when you first found out that someone had tested positive on the ship to COVID-19? Was that --- 45 MS DE LAMOTTE: I think we had the impression that night when we saw the footage of the two being taken away by ambulance at 2 o'clock in the morning
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because we were given a different reason why we were docking at 2 o'clock in the morning and then the next day ---
MR BEASLEY: Pausing there. What reason was that? 5 MS DE LAMOTTE: The dock had become available to board --- to disembark and so they were going to come in early. We thought that is unusual, we've never come in at night-time before.
10 MR BEASLEY: In a cruise you'd never come in at night-time?
MS DE LAMOTTE: There would be no taxis or anything at that short notice, we thought. Then we found out we weren't getting off at 2.00 am, we would get off later. 15 MR BEASLEY: All the other cruises you'd come back to Sydney had been at day-time?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, pretty much. 20 MR BEASLEY: Is that so you can see the city as you come in? Or you don't know?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I think that's just their schedule.
25 MR BEASLEY: Did you get a message from New South Wales Health informing you that passengers from the ship had tested positive to COVID?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I don't believe so, no.
30 MR BEASLEY: Did you find out then that people had tested positive to COVID by watching the television?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
35 MR BEASLEY: And was that what prompted you to make a phone call and enquiries about getting a test yourself?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, that was the next day.
40 COMMISSIONER: What date do you think that was?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Oh, well, we disembarked the 19th, we saw the news that night, and by the time we'd seen some news the next morning, so the 20th, the Friday, was the day I rang Princess and asked if any of that was true, what was going 45 on in the media.
COMMISSIONER: But they didn't tell you straight away?
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MS DE LAMOTTE: No, they took three days to get back to me.
COMMISSIONER: What date is it that you think that you got in touch with New 5 South Wales Health?
MS DE LAMOTTE: They contacted us. I believe we had an email not the day we got back, but maybe a day or two later. I can't remember what it said without rereading it and then all through the period at home we got continual emails and 10 SMSs on the phone.
COMMISSIONER: I was just interested in your first contact once you were back on land with anybody about getting tested. Did you seek it out?
15 MS DE LAMOTTE: No, we only got tested again because of the television. After about five or six days, people were starting to die that had been on the cruise. They were sort of suggesting that everyone who had been on the Princess should maybe have been tested. We discussed it between us and decided maybe we should go and get tested. 20 MR BEASLEY: Is that during that period you still didn't have any symptoms?
MS DE LAMOTTE: None at all. Sore throat never came back.
25 MR BEASLEY: No sore throat. Your husband?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, he had no symptoms at all.
COMMISSIONER: That's why you say it was for your peace of mind you want to 30 be tested?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, really.
COMMISSIONER: Is that what you explained to whoever it was who agreed to test 35 you, that you had no symptoms, but you'd heard that people ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: Well, I started ringing the GP first, and he knows my medical history, being an asthmatic and sinus sufferer and I've had a heart attack which were all factors to look out for apparently and he said he wasn't doing them, to ring the 40 local hospital. We rang the local hospital and as soon I said we were on the Ruby Princess, they said "Come on down."
COMMISSIONER: What hospital was that?
45 MS DE LAMOTTE: South-West Sydney. Campbelltown.
COMMISSIONER: I know it.
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MR BEASLEY: You had your test there. How long after were you told that you confirmed positive?
5 MS DE LAMOTTE: Approximately 24 hours. They rang us the next day.
MR BEASLEY: Were you given any advice --- when you say "they rang you" was that the hospital or New South Wales Health?
10 MS DE LAMOTTE: It got a bit confusing because the phones just rang hot all afternoon. At one stage we had the hospital on one mobile and New South Wales Health on the other and the nurse was telling us the doctor has got it wrong, don't listen to what he's saying, and the doctor is saying you've got to do this and we had no symptoms so --- 15 MR BEASLEY: Let me catch up.
MS DE LAMOTTE: --- we just got really confused.
20 MR BEASLEY: You are not sure who rang you to say you tested positive?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I could probably tell you if I looked at my notes, who rang first.
25 MR BEASLEY: When you say look at your notes, you mean some records ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: I started taking notes because so many people were ringing, I started taking names and writing down dates.
30 COMMISSIONER: Consult them. I would be interested to know the date when your doctor suggested being in touch with Campbelltown Hospital and when Campbelltown Hospital agreed to do your test.
MS DE LAMOTTE: That was Wednesday after --- 35 MR BEASLEY: Take your time and look at the notes.
MS DE LAMOTTE: I haven't got a calendar. It was a Dr Chan from the hospital that rang to tell us we tested positive on the Thursday. So that was a week after we 40 got off. So about the 26th.
MR BEASLEY: That was the 26th.
MS DE LAMOTTE: So the 25th is when we went and got tested, on the 45 Wednesday.
COMMISSIONER: So you think you saw your doctor on the 24th or 25th, is that
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right?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Didn't see our GP, I just rang him. He said ring the hospital. So that was the Wednesday. So about six days after getting off the ship. 5 COMMISSIONER: Good-o. Thanks very much.
MR BEASLEY: Should the Commissioner take it that at no time during that period, the 19th until you went and got your test on the 25th, do you recall anyone from New 10 South Wales Health prompting you to have a test?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, we did get emails and SMSs saying if you got any symptoms, contact us. The first --- I think it was the first SMS from New South Wales Health said, "This is Bunker" --- no, that was an email. 15 MR BEASLEY: Have a look at paragraph 26 is what I think you're referring to there. About three-quarters down you said the first email from Bunker had a link that didn't work.
20 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, that's right.
MR BEASLEY: It had a link that didn't work. Does that mean you tried to open the link and it didn't open?
25 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, didn't work, and it quoted a phone number in the same email. When I rang, I got this poor young man who said he had never heard of Bunker and he was only there to give advice to people that had the virus, I think.
MR BEASLEY: Sorry, the phone number was the number that the email had in it, 30 from New South Wales, but when you rang New South Wales, he didn't know anything about Bunker?
MS DE LAMOTTE: He knew the email, but he didn't know anything about Bunker --- 35 MR BEASLEY: Exactly what purpose were you calling?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I can't remember what the email said now.
40 MR BEASLEY: Was it to find out whether you should be tested?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I can't remember without reading the email.
COMMISSIONER: Was it after you were tested? 45 MS DE LAMOTTE: I got the feeling it was before. But, again, I couldn't swear ---
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COMMISSIONER: We might pursue that out of session. We're not going to get further here.
MR BEASLEY: All right. 5 Since the test --- you were told it was positive. Were you given any advice as to what you should do as a result of that? Were you told there is another isolation period? Or what advice you were given in addition to being told you were COVID positive? 10 MS DE LAMOTTE: That we had to --- originally they said self-isolate for 14 days, which we said we had done because this is day 7. Then they said you have to self-isolate from when you first got the symptoms. We said, what symptoms, we haven't got any. They ran through the list and we said, no, we don't have any of 15 those. I did explain about having a sore throat on the cruise and nothing was done about it. But we were self-isolating. We counted the Friday as day 1, the first day we were completely at home. So that to us is day 7, the following Thursday. Then someone else said, no, it will be from when you were cleared.
20 One phone was telling us there is no test for clearing and another one was saying you have to wait a week and then get tested again.
MR BEASLEY: Just pausing there, when you say one phone ---
25 MS DE LAMOTTE: The hospital was ringing one mobile number and the ---
MR BEASLEY: What was the hospital --- what advice was the hospital giving you, that you recall? And if you need to look at your notes, please do. Because what I want to understand is what the hospital was telling you about what you should do 30 and what New South Wales Health was telling you what you should do, if you can recall, whether there was a difference.
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yeah, I didn't write down what all their advices were, just who they were. I'm trying to remember what Dr Chan was saying. That at the time I was 35 having a breakdown because we were getting so bombarded and we still were in shock that we were positive. Because I remember saying to them both, are you sure you've got the people, we have no symptoms at all. And I've got this heart thing and the chest thing and I'm not sick. They both said, yes, it's definitely you two, you are both positive. We didn't even have temperatures. They kept insisting we should 40 have a temperature and we didn't. There was confusion then about what we had to do in regards to the 14 days, when did it start.
MR BEASLEY: Yes.
45 MS DE LAMOTTE: And I think the doctor was saying that you will get tested again to be cleared and then the nurse was saying, no, you won't --- I'm not sure if that was the same phone call or later, a day later when I calmed down, and she said, no, they
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won't do another test because they are getting false positive tests. People have got, like, dead cells on their clothing and things and they are getting positive tests and people haven't got the virus anymore.
5 MR BEASLEY: When you say a nurse, was that a nurse from the hospital or New South Wales Health? If you don't recall, it doesn't matter. I'm wondering if you remember?
MS DE LAMOTTE: We started off in New South Wales Health at Liverpool. 10 MR BEASLEY: Yes.
MS DE LAMOTTE: And then we were --- our care was transferred to Community Health Campbelltown. 15 MR BEASLEY: I see. Okay.
COMMISSIONER: They are all in public health, though, aren't they?
20 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER: Can I ask, have you ever had an antibody body test?
MS DE LAMOTTE: For the particular virus? 25 COMMISSIONER: Yes.
MS DE LAMOTTE: Only the two swabs at the hospital. That's all we had done.
30 COMMISSIONER: The word "serology" doesn't mean anything to you?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No.
MR BEASLEY: You said in paragraph 27 that during your self-isolation period the 35 police came to check twice to check that you were ---
MS DE LAMOTTE: At home.
MR BEASLEY: They were just asking --- 40 MS DE LAMOTTE: Just to verify. We heard on the news that people who were supposed to be self-isolating weren't and people were asked to check. We weren't surprised when they turned up, except the last time.
45 MR BEASLEY: I want to understand something from paragraphs 28 and 29 of your statement. You eventually got a full refund from the cruise, did you?
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MS DE LAMOTTE: Since then we received more money. We now have more than a full credit.
MR BEASLEY: A credit? 5 MS DE LAMOTTE: No, we got two cheques in the mail.
MR BEASLEY: So I understand, Princess Cruises has repaid you all the money you paid for the cruise? 10 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, definitely.
MR BEASLEY: Understood.
15 You've said you weren't given any masks when you disembarked the ship. Did you notice anyone wearing masks?
MS DE LAMOTTE: There were some passengers, I guessed they had bought their own because they weren't all uniform. And you sort of get used to certain 20 nationalities wearing masks in public and that's why I thought they had just brought their own along. I didn't notice people wearing them until later on in the cruise.
MR BEASLEY: Since I know you were asymptomatic at the time you were told you were positive for COVID --- 25 MS DE LAMOTTE: Sorry, does that mean no symptoms?
MR BEASLEY: No symptoms, sorry. You've had none since?
30 MS DE LAMOTTE: No.
MR BEASLEY: But you haven't had a further test to say negative because you were advised that we are getting false positives?
35 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: The Commissioner's conducting an inquiry into partly in relation to the circumstances and things that happen on the cruise from the eighth to the 19th of March. Is there anything you feel, and also about follow-up from New South Wales 40 Health off the ship. Is there anything you feel I haven't covered in the questions I've asked you, that you think the Commissioner should know about?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, I think we've covered everything.
45 MR BEASLEY: I know you've said something further in paragraph 30, but that is your observations relating to the incident at the services desk?
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1806 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: You had already talked about it.
5 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Nothing else you want to let the Commissioner know?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Just that in all the confusion --- I mean, we tried to be 10 understanding that New South Wales Health and everybody were in the same boat as us, they didn't really know what the next step would be so it was hard to tell us what to do next. And then after the contacts from Princess we sort of felt like we'd asked questions but they hadn't actually answered what I asked. They sort of skirted around. We were left feeling could I have got tested onboard or not. We heard that 15 they could test you, but then they couldn't send it to a lab. Then we heard that there were no tests onboard. So those people that went off on the ambulance weren't actually positive to the virus or they didn't know.
MR BEASLEY: When you say tests do you mean --- 20 MS DE LAMOTTE: COVID-19.
MR BEASLEY: --- that you could be swabbed for COVID-19 but the ship couldn't do a test onboard or were you led to believe they could do a test onboard? 25 MS DE LAMOTTE: All three different stages since got off the boat --- ship, sorry. We got the impression that we could have been tested but not got the results ---
COMMISSIONER: Is this from discussion among you and fellow passengers? 30 MS DE LAMOTTE: No, no, this is just the impression I got from Princess Cruises from their communication.
COMMISSIONER: If it's of any assistance to you, I can tell you this now; there 35 never were any facilities for laboratory testing for COVID-19.
MS DE LAMOTTE: Well that's what we sort ended up but guessing. We didn't know that for sure.
40 COMMISSIONER: There is no need to guess. That's .....
MS DE LAMOTTE: We, sort of, got the impression that you could go and get tested and they would let you know onboard. Then after we got off the ship, we got the impression they couldn't have done the swabs. 45 COMMISSIONER: That's right.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1807 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR BEASLEY SC
MS DE LAMOTTE: Then later on we heard they had no swab tests onboard. And then when we heard that people had been diagnosed on the ship and we figured out did that happen if they couldn't do testing? So we ended up not really knowing whether we could be tested onboard or not. 5 MR BEASLEY: Thank you.
MS DE LAMOTTE: More confusion.
10 MR BEASLEY: The Commissioner may have some questions and another lawyer here might seek leave to ask a question. That's all the questions I have.
Thank you very much for your attention to them.
15 Do you have any objection to me tendering the statement you gave to the police as an Exhibit in these proceedings?
MS DE LAMOTTE: The police took the statement. Task force ---
20 MR BEASLEY: Are you happy for me to tender it for the purposes of this inquiry.
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, of course.
MR BEASLEY: I will tender the statement of Lynda De Lamotte, dated 20 May 25 2020. It is Exhibit 79.
EXHIBIT #79 - STATEMENT OF LYNDA DE LAMOTTE, DATED 20.05.2020 30
Mrs De Lamotte, could you also, someone will help you with this after you've given your evidence, but I would just like to get someone to put in place a system with you where you can provide us with the texts or emails you've put on your phone. 35 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR BEASLEY: Thank you. Commissioner?
40 COMMISSIONER: Mr McLure, I thought I should raise with you the reference to lying, though, via omission which you will see twice in this statement. In light of Mr Beasley's questions and Mrs De Lamotte's answers, that I take it is a reference to the - I will just call it the defective nature of what she recalls being told by a member of the guest services staff - concerning the expense of a medical consultation. 45 MR MCLURE: I had understood differently, Commissioner. I thought this was a reference to Mrs De Lamotte's understanding of what she was told after the cruise
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1808 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR BEASLEY SC
about the availability of testing onboard.
COMMISSIONER: I see. Right.
5 You've heard the exchange?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER: Mr McClure is counsel for the cruise line. 10 MS DE LAMOTTE: Okay. It was more after, definitely after.
COMMISSIONER: Right. I have no interest in pursuing the notion of anyone on the ship having said there was a test onboard because I know there wasn't. But I'm 15 raising it with you because it obviously is a sting, the notion of lying by omission, and if you wish to explore it, please do, but you don't have to concern yourself about any finding that anybody said, in effect, there was a test.
MR MCLURE: Yes. Without rehashing everything we discussed yesterday, I think, 20 those particular parts of the statement, my preference would be that the Commission wouldn't receive them into evidence. But if the commission proposes to ---
COMMISSIONER: I will receive them into evidence.
25 MR MCLURE: Given what you just said, I don't propose to take up your time pursuing that point. Could I have leave to ask questions in relation to paragraph 18.
COMMISSIONER: Yes.
30 EXAMINATION BY MR McLURE SC
MR McLURE: Commissioner, could Mrs De Lamotte be shown Exhibit 75. 35 COMMISSIONER: Yes.
MR McLURE: Mrs De Lamotte, as the Commissioner said, I'm David McLure and I'm counsel appearing for Princess Cruise Lines. 40 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR McLURE: We will show you a document. When it comes to you, we will ask you to have a look at it. Can you read that to yourself and let me know when you are 45 ready.
MS DE LAMOTTE: I think we received a copy of this. I think I have a copy of this.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1809 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR McLURE SC
I've seen it before.
MR McLURE: Do you remember being provided with a copy of this when you were on the ship? 5 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR McLURE: Was it left in your cabin?
10 MS DE LAMOTTE: I believe so, yes.
MR McLURE: Was it there on the first day you boarded the ship?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I don't think so, no. 15 MR McLURE: Do you remember reading it at the time in your cabin?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes, I definitely read it.
20 MR McLURE: Is this something that you read before you went to see the person at guest services on about the 15th?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I couldn't tell you. Sorry.
25 MR McLURE: Can I read aloud to you something else. This is the text of what I want to suggest to you was an announcement read over the ship's PA system on the morning of Tuesday, 17 March 2020. I will read it and ask if you remember it. It went in these terms:
30 In order for us to create a smooth disembarkation process that you can return home in comfort, we will need to make sure that we have the correct information about the well-being of our guests and crew. The New South Wales Public Health officials will examine all records and the better the information, the sooner we can start our disembarkation process on the 19th of 35 March in Sydney. Therefore, our medical team would like to see all guests and crew with fever or respiratory symptoms to present themselves to our medical centre located on deck 4, mid-ship, during clinic hours. If you do not have a fever or respiratory symptoms, there is no need to come to our medical centre, only guests that experience fever or respiratory symptoms. Your 40 cooperation and calm anticipation has already been fabulous. Again we would like to thank you enormously.
Do you remember hearing an announcement to that effect on the morning of Tuesday, 17 March? 45 MS DE LAMOTTE: I couldn't swear either way, sorry.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1810 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR McLURE SC
MR McLURE: Does it sound similar to an announcement you heard when you were on the ship?
MS DE LAMOTTE: I honestly don't remember. 5 MR McLURE: Does it sound like the announcement that you heard that motivated you to go and see the lady --- was it a lady you saw at guest services?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. 10 MR McLURE: Does it sound like the announcement that motivated you to go and see that lady?
MS DE LAMOTTE: No, because that only quotes respiratory and I just had a sore 15 throat and nothing else, which is why I wanted to just make a general inquiry and not go to the medical centre first.
COMMISSIONER: Do you regard sore throat as a respiratory symptom?
20 MS DE LAMOTTE: No.
MR McLURE: So is the reason you went to see the lady at guest services is because you had a sore throat and you were thinking you might want to get some treatment for that? 25 MS DE LAMOTTE: Well, I didn't know. As I said, there was a list of symptoms. I had one that had gone and come back. I did --- I do still suffer from sore throats on occasion, but this was unusual for it to come and go so quickly. Within four days I had two sore throat attacks sort of thing. So I wanted someone who I thought might 30 know more about who should get tested and went to the inquiry desk to ask what they could advise.
MR McLURE: Were you thinking you might want to have a doctor look at your throat and maybe give you medicine to treat it? 35 MS DE LAMOTTE: No, that didn't occur to me, no.
MR McLURE: Are you saying the only reason you went to ask the lady at guest services about going to the medical centre is to see whether or not you should be 40 tested?
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR McLURE: Can I ask in relation to paragraph 20 of your statement you say that 45 all through the latter part of the cruise the staff kept announcing the ship was virus-free.
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1811 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR McLURE SC
MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes.
MR McLURE: Are you referring to announcements made over the PA system or something different? 5 MS DE LAMOTTE: Yes. Both at events they were holding and, for example, there was a games night on a stage and both before and after the entertainment staff would thank us for being so understanding, how we've helped keep the ship virus-free and kept everyone's morale up, staff and our own, and it was that sort of pattern that 10 repeated during the last half of the cruise.
MR McLURE: Do you think what you are remembering is staff members telling you, passengers, to adhere to good hygiene practices so as to help keep the ship virus-free? 15 MS DE LAMOTTE: It was more thanking for us doing the right thing and helping keep the ship virus-free, and keeping morale up, we weren't all whingeing about we could get the virus. We were all happy and doing the right thing by sanitising and washing our hands and being happy, even though we were heading home a bit 20 earlier.
MR McLURE: Thank you, Mrs De Lamotte. Thank you, Commissioner.
MR BEASLEY: Nothing further from me. 25 MS DE LAMOTTE: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER: That concludes your evidence with my thanks. Much obliged for your time and trouble. 30 MS DE LAMOTTE: Thank you.
THE WITNESS WITHDREW [3.58 PM] 35
MR BEASLEY: Commissioner, there is a similar number of witnesses tomorrow, commencing at 9.30 am with Lynette Jones and that will conclude all the passenger evidence, save for one witness that will give evidence on Friday. 40 COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.
We will adjourn until 9.30 tomorrow. Thanks for your help.
45 MS DE LAMOTTE: Thank you.
MATTER ADJOURNED AT 3.59 PM UNTIL 9.30AM, TUESDAY, 23 JUNE 2020
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1812 MS L. DE LAMOTTE XN MR McLURE SC
Index of Witness Events
JILL WHITTEMORE, SWORN P-1692 EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC P-1692 WITNESS WITHDREW P-1704 WILLIAM JOHN WRIGHT, SWORN P-1704 EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC P-1704 WITNESS WITHDREW P-1722 DAVID ANNESLEY SWORN P-1723 EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC P-1723 WITNESS WITHDREW P-1735 ANDREW SAULYS, SWORN P-1736 JOAN SAULYS, SWORN P-1736 EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC P-1737 WITNESSES WITHDREW P-1759 JOSEPHINE ROOPE, AFFIRMED P-1761 EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC P-1761 EXAMINATION BY MR McLURE SC P-1783 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC P-1784 WITNESS WITHDREW P-1786 LYNDA SUSAN DE LAMOTTE, AFFIRMED P-1787 EXAMINATION BY MR BEASLEY SC P-1787 EXAMINATION BY MR McLURE SC P-1809 WITNESS WITHDREW P-1812
Index of Exhibits and MFIs
EXHIBIT #68 - STATEMENT BY MR SHAUN DEVITT, DATED 19 P-1690 JUNE 2020 EXHIBIT #69 - RECORDING OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION P-1690 BETWEEN STEVE HOWIESON, VTS MANAGER AND CAMERON BUTCHART, PORT SERVICES MANAGER, DATED 18.03.2018 AT APPROXIMATELY 10.44 PM WITH THE RECORDING OF THAT TELEPHONE CONVERSATION EXHIBIT #70 - TRANSCRIPT OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN P-1691 MR HOWIESON AND DR ILSE VON WATZDORF DATED 19.03.20 AT APPROXIMATELY 12.06 AM WITH AUDIO RECORDING EXHIBIT #71 - STATEMENT OF JILL WHITTEMORE TO NSW P-1702 POLICE FORCE DATED 28.04.2020 EXHIBIT #72 - COPY STATEMENT OF WILLIAM WRIGHT, P-1720 DATED 15.04.2020 PROVIDED TO NSW POLICE FORCE EXHIBIT #73 - STATEMENT OF DAVID ANNESLEY GIVEN TO P-1733 NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE DATED 21.05.2020
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1813
EXHIBIT #74 - STATEMENT OF ANDREW SAULYS TO NEW P-1759 SOUTH WALES POLICE DATED 14.05.2020 EXHIBIT #75 - DOCUMENT HEADED "HEALTH P-1759 ADVISORY - CORONAVIRUS", ADDRESSED TO "DEAR VALUED GUEST", SIGNED BY DR GRANT TARLING, THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER OF CARNIVAL WORLDWIDE EXHIBIT #76 - STATEMENT OF JOSEPHINE ROOPE GIVEN TO P-1781 NEW SOUTH WALES POLICE FORCE DATED 16.04.2020 EXHIBIT #77 - MR McLURE'S CASE SUMMARY DOCUMENT P-1785 FOR MRS ROOPE EXHIBIT #78 - DOCUMENT MARKED ROOPE, J. MRS RE C518 P-1785 EXHIBIT #79 - STATEMENT OF LYNDA DE LAMOTTE, DATED P-1808 20.05.2020
RUBY PRINCESS INQUIRY 22.06.2020 P-1814