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Vol. 718 Thursday No. 55 11 March 2010 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Tax Revenue: Cigarettes Young Offender Institutions NHS: Medical Training Initiative Debt: Insolvency Laws Business of the House Timing of Debates Nine Statutory Instruments Motions to Refer to Grand Committee Transport: High-speed Rail Statement Barnett Formula Motion to Take Note Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill First Reading National Minimum Wage Debate Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2010 Jobseeker’s Allowance (Lone Parents) (Availability for Work) Regulations 2010 Motions to Approve Grand Committee Four Energy Draft National Policy Statements Debated Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. 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Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN, compiled by the House of Commons, gives details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscription: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2010, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ 335 Tax Revenue: Cigarettes[11 MARCH 2010] Tax Revenue: Cigarettes 336 Lord Elton: My Lords, I am interested in the confidence House of Lords with which the noble Lord answered the first part of Thursday, 11 March 2010. the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, about how much is lost from smuggling. Presumably those 11 am cigarettes which smugglers attempted but failed to smuggle are out of the equation. How do the Government Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Bradford. know how many are smuggled without their knowledge? Tax Revenue: Cigarettes Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I thought that question might arise. It is a calculation. Of course, it Question has to be an estimate. As with everything to do with aspects of crime proceeds, there is an element of 11.07 am estimate. It is the difference between the take the Asked By Lord Dubs Revenue legitimately gets from cigarettes on which the duty has been paid and the figures from household To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much surveys of cigarette consumption. It is the distinction tax revenue from cigarettes they estimate they have between those two points. lost due to (a) smuggling, and (b) imports from the European Union for personal use. Lord Newby: My Lords, have the Government made Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the revenue lost an estimate of the reduction in excise duty collected, due to smuggling in 2007-08 was £1.5 billion. This is and taxes generally, on cigarettes following the ban on down from £2.7 billion in 2000-01. The revenue lost smoking in public places? Do the Government think due to imports for personal use is £0.9 billion, of that one of the reasons the amount of cigarettes which £0.6 billion came from the European Union in smuggled has fallen is that fewer people are smoking, 2007-08, due to lower retail prices in the EU. In partly because of the effect of the ban? January 2010 the UK had an average tax rate, including VAT, as a proportion of the retail price in the EU. Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the health strategy and the Government’s tightening up of border controls Lord Dubs: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble have their effect in reducing smuggling. I sought to friend for that Answer. Does he agree that Britain’s indicate to the House that there is a significant drop in policy for some years now of having a high rate of the amount of cigarettes smuggled into the country. duty on cigarettes—probably higher than most other Nevertheless, the House will know that cigarettes are EU countries—has been based more on health one of the easier commodities to smuggle and it is still considerations than on fiscal considerations? Does he done on an unacceptable scale. We are pursuing the further agree that the import of large quantities of most strenuous measures to get the figures down further. cigarettes from the EU, without the ability of the Customs people to stop it, is damaging to health and Baroness Noakes: My Lords, why have the Government is undermining the Government’s sensible policies on not set a new target for the reduction of smuggling of trying to reduce the level of smoking? Ought we not, cigarettes, given that the latest statistics show that the as a country, approach the EU and say “Health is not previous target has already been met? Are the Government a matter for Brussels; fiscal matters may be”, and now being complacent? suggest that it should look again at the movement of cigarettes into this country? Lord Davies of Oldham: On the contrary, my Lords. Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the response I accept of course the noble Baroness’s congratulations from Brussels is that border controls on imports are on the Government having hit the target thus far. I the responsibility of the United Kingdom. As I have assure her that the success is based on a strategy which indicated, we have had a marked improvement in the is clearly working. We are intensifying that strategy. reduction of smuggling over the past 10 years. However, as my noble friend will readily appreciate, the higher Lord Palmer: Does the Minister have any figures for we price cigarettes for the wholly commendable and the amount of revenue lost due to the smuggling of proper reasons of improving the nation’s health and hand-rolling tobacco? The latest estimate that I have is seeking to reduce consumption, the greater the incentive that 47 per cent of hand-rolling tobacco is illegally for smugglers. imported into this country. Lord Inglewood: My Lords, what is the presumption of the number of cigarettes an individual might bring Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the Question in to measure whether or not they are for personal was about cigarettes. Hand-rolling tobacco is marginal use? in comparison to the position with cigarettes. I regret to say that I do not have a figure for hand-rolling Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the figure is tobacco, but I think I can assure the noble Lord—I 3,200 cigarettes over 160 days. A rapid calculation will shall write to him with the specifics—that the problem indicate that that is 20 a day. So for personal use you with regard to smuggling relates to cigarettes. are allowed to bring in 20 cigarettes a day for six months. Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords— 337 Tax Revenue: Cigarettes[LORDS] Young Offender Institutions 338 Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall: My Lords, given the local authorities working with YOIs have kept on that the problem of the illegal bringing of tobacco the social workers because they have seen the benefits into the country is slightly separate from that of cigarettes of the pilots. I am very keen that we should do all we being brought in duty-free for personal use, can my can to ensure that the benefits of the pilot are realised. noble friend say whether there has been a reduction in the import of cigarettes on that basis since the ban? In Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, in those YOIs that what way are the Government underpinning at points do not have a social worker what arrangements are of entry their own campaign against smoking, so that being made for young people who were formerly in people who might bring in cigarettes are discouraged care regarding where they should be resettled and the from doing so as far as possible? level of support they should receive when they leave custody? These children are one of the main focuses Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the figure offered that the social workers are supposed to have, as is for the personal use of cigarettes is the one which I working in partnership with other professionals. quoted. It seems to be a reasonable figure given the difficulty of reducing cigarette consumption on the Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: I want to be absolutely part of people who are addicted to tobacco, and some clear.