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ROYAL COMMISSION
INTO THE MANAGEMENT OF POLICE INFORMANTS
STATEMENT OF THOMAS DONALD LUKE CORNELIUS APM
1. My full name is Thomas Donald Luke Cornelius. I am currently an Assistant Commissioner of Victoria Police. I have held this rank since December 2005.
2. I am the Assistant Commissioner, North West Metropolitan Region.
3. I am also:
(a) a member of Victoria Police Command; (b) a member of Victoria Police’s Operations Committee; (c) a member of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine Council; and (d) the Chief Commissioner's representative on the Blue Ribbon Foundation Board.
4. I make this statement in response to a request from the Royal Commission dated 8 March 2019.
Education background and employment history (Q1) i Employment history
5. I have been a police officer for over 30 years.
6. I joined the Australian Federal Police in 1989. I spent fourteen years with the AFP, reaching the rank of Commander, as the Director of People Strategies.
7. During my appointment as a police officer with the Australian Federal Police, I performed duties in Intelligence and Drug Operations, General Crime, human resources, financial management and Legal Policy.
8. I also served as a United Nations Police Officer with the United Nations Transitional Authority East Timor from May to September, 2001.
9. I joined Victoria Police in August 2003, as Commander, Legal Services Department, a position I held until December 2005. In this position I was responsible for the management of Victoria Police's:
(a) Police Prosecutions area; (b) Civil Litigation Unit; and (c) Freedom of Information/Privacy Unit.
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10. From December 2005 until May 2010, I was Assistant Commissioner of the Ethical Standards Department (the ESD). In this role I was responsible formanagement of the ESD within Victoria Police.
11. From May 2010 to October 2015, I was the Assistant Commissioner for the Southern Metropolitan Region, responsible for the delivery of policing services across the region.
12. From October 2015 until 15 April 2019, I was responsible for leading the Victoria Police response to the Victorian Equal Opportunities and Human Rights Commission independent review into sex discrimination, sexual harassment and predatory behaviour among Victoria Police employees.
13. I have the following tertiary qualifications:
(a) Master of Public Administration (Executive), Monash University, 2008; (b) Bachelor of Laws (with honours), Flinders University, 1999; and (c) Graduate Diploma of Legal Practice, Australian National University, 2000.
I 4. I was admitted to practice as a barrister and solicitor of the A�T Supreme Court in 1999. However, I have never practised law in any jurisdiction.
15. In 2010, I was awarded the Australian Police Medal in the 2010 Australia Day Honours List. I have also been awarded:
(a) a Police Overseas Service Medal; (b) the National Police Service Medal ; (c) the National Medal; (d) the United Nations Medal; ( e) the Australian Federal Police National Operations Medal; (f) the Victoria Police Service Medal; and (g) a Commissioner's Commendation.
My involvement or association with any investigation which had dealings with Ms Gobbo (Q2)
16. In my capacity as the Assistant Commissioner ESD:
(a) between April 2007 and approximately May 2010, I chaired the Investigations Management Committee (IMC) forTaskforce Briars
(b) between April 2007 and May 2010, I was a member of the IMC for Taskforce Petra. I chaired the Taskforce Petra IMC from6 April 2009 until May 2010.
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17. As both Taskforces involved various dealings with Ms Gobbo, Iprovide further details regarding my involvement with each Operation below.
18. I have very limited independent recollection of the events detailed below and have relied heavily on my review of available records in making this statement. I stopped regularly keeping a diary in June 2006, and I ceased using a diary entirely in July 2006. My records in relation to the Petra and Briars Taskforces are limited to the Taskforce update papers which were prepared by the Detective Superintendent or Detective Inspector responsible for leading the investigative team. This decision was based on the highly sensitive nature of these investigations. These update papers were presented orally to the IMC at weekly or fortnightly meetings and circulated more broadly to the investigation team. During the IMC briefings, I would make notes on the update paper.
19. I have also reviewed my emails in relation to the Petra and Briars Taskforces. I have relied heavily on the update papers, my notes and relevant emails to refresh my memory. In preparing this statement, I have had the opportunity to review a transcript of the recorded interview I gave to the Office of Police Integrity (OPI) dated 18 May 2012.1 As I noted during that interview, I made it without access to a number of relevant documents and records which are now available to me and which I have reviewed for the purposes of preparing this statement.
20. I have also been shown a number of records which indicate that Ms Gobbo was involved in an ESD investigation called Operation Khadi. I do not have a clear independent recollection of this investigation, although the records 1 have been shown in the course of preparing this statement show that the investigation related to allegations of serious misconduct of Victoria Police members at Brighton Police Station.
21. I have reviewed my diary and emails for references to Operation Khadi. Between 25 February and 22 March 2006 I received some emails associated with my involvement in the finalisation of the notice of proposed dismissal (known as a “s 68 Notice”) of Senior Sergeant Richard Shields of Brighton Police Station: Ms Gobbo featured in the s 68 Notice because Senior Sergeant Shields’s ongoing personal relationship with Ms Gobbo was one of the grounds for the proposed dismissal.
22. There are references to meetings related to the s 68 Notice in my diary entries dated 23 March, 24 March and 3 April 2006 but there is no mention ofMs Gobbo in any capacity in any of these entries.
23. On 6 June 2006, my diary records that Detective Superintendent Rod Wilson and then Assistant Commissioner Simon Overland attended my regular meeting with Superintendent Phil Masters (in charge of surveillance at the ESD) “re Op Khadi”. I
1 VPL.0005.0164.0001 2 VPL.6009.0003.0152; VPL.6009.0003.6709
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have no independent recollection of that meeting at all. I will return to this meeting in answering question 3.
Taskforce Briars
24. Taskforce Briars was established in March 2007 to investigate the murder of Shane Chartres-Abbott, who was fatally shot on 4 June 2003. Taskforce Briars was a joint agency investigation conducted by Victoria Police’s BSD and the Office of Police Integrity (OPI).3 A specialist taskforce was setup to conduct the investigation due to the suspected involvement of current and former Victoria Police members, in particular David Waters and Peter Lalor.
25. When it was established, Taskforce Briars included the following officers:4
(3) Acting Detective Senior Sergeant Steve Abrehart; (b) Detective Sergeant Peter Trichias (c) Detective Senior Constable Stephen Sheahan (d) Detective Senior Constable Stephen Cuxon (e) Mr Daniel Mills; (t) Mr Scott Elliot.
26. I was involved in Taskforce Briars from its establishment. In late January 2007 then Deputy Commissioner, Simon Overland gave me a preliminary verbal briefing about the possibility that Victoria Police might establish a taskforce to investigate the murder of Mr Chartres—Abbott.
27. On 5 March 2007, DC Overland gave me a written direction to establish Taskforce Briars.5 The Taskforce was to be led by Detective Superintendent Wilson with assistance from Detective Inspector Stephen Waddell (BSD) and Detective Senior Sergeant Ron Iddles (Crime Department).
28. From 22 March 2007 until May 2010, I chaired the IMC for Taskforce Briars. Then DC Overland and Graham Ashton, then Assistant Director at the CPI were also members.
29. The IMC was established to provide strategic oversight and direction to the Investigation Team and to facilitate the investigation across the Victoria Police Force and with external agencies.
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30. As part of its function, the IMC regularly reviewed the operational progress and strategy of the investigation
31. Throughout the operation of the Taskforce, the IMC met regularly, on a weekly or fortnightly basis. Detective Superintendent Wilson would provide updates on the investigation and the IMC would provide direction.
32. From the commencement of the investigation, Taskforce Briars suspected that one current and one former member of Victoria Police assisted with the murder of Mr Chartres-Abbott.
33. The Taskforce was active until October 2008, when the IMC decided to wind it down, due to limited progress in the investigation. We held a final meeting on 27 October 2008.
34. In March 2009, Taskforce Briars was re-established, becaus_- had agreed to provide a statement which opened new avenues of enquiry. Accordingly, I resumed my role on the IMC. The resumed IMC members were myself as chair, Assistant Commissioner Graham Ashton, Dannye Moloney (AC Crime) and Inspector Peter Wilkins. Detective Inspector Waddell led the resumed investigation.
35. In April 2010, I began transitioning into the role Assistant Commissioner, Southern Metropolitan Region. Then Assistant Commissioner Emmet Dunne succeeded me as the Assistant Commissioner of the Ethical Standards Department and assumed the role ofchair of Taskforce Briars. While AC Dunne was not formally appointed AC of ESD until the end of May, he was acting in this role throughout April and May 2009. During this time, I remained involved in the Taskforce in a ‘handover capacity’, while I also began assuming responsibilities for Southern Metro.
36. I am now aware that Ms Gobbo’s involvement in Taskforce Briars was as follows:
(a) in the first phase of the investigation, Ms Gobbo provided information to the Source Development Unit (SDU) in relation to two key suspects, Lalor and Waters, which was disseminated to Taskforce Briars investigators; (b) Ms Gobbo was interviewed by Taskforce Briars investigators in January 2008; (c) when the taskforce resumed in April 2009 (referred to below as the second phase), Ms Gobbo was identified as someone who may be able to provide a statement in relation to a suspect, Mark Perry and David Waters. During this period, Ms Gobbo was identified as Witness F, Witness D and at times by name. I also recall that she was also referred to as - by
37. 1 detail more regarding my knowledge of Ms Gobbo at various times (and in various guises) in response to question 3 below.
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Taskforce Petra
38. Taskforce Petra commenced operations on 23 April 2007. It was established to investigate the murders of Terrance and Christine Hodson which occurred on 16 May 2004.
39. Taskforce Petra was a joint agency investigation, conducted by Victoria Police and the CPI.6 It was set up this way because of suspicions that the Hodsons had been murdered at the behest of a former Victoria Police officer, Paul Dale.
40. When it was established, the Petra taskforce included the following officers: 7
(a) Detective Inspector Gavan Ryan; (b) Detective Senior Sergeant Shane O’Connell; (c) Detective Sergeant Solon Soloman; (d) Detective Senior Constable Cameron Davey; (e) Detective Senior Constable Glen Weaver; (i) Detective Senior Constable Nicholas Densley; (g) Detective Senior Constable Sara Morse; (h) Detective Senior Constable Nigel Habben; (i) Detective Senior Constable Barry Gray; (1') Detective Senior Constable Michelle Kerley; (k) Detective Senior Constable Michael Kugler.
41. When Taskforce Petra was created, a Taskforce IMC was established to be responsible for the overall conduct of the operation and to monitor its progress. The Taskforce Petra IMC consisted of myself, DC Overland, DI Ryan and Assistant Director Graham Ashton (0P1).
42. The attendees at IMC meetings varied over the course of my involvement with Taskforce Petra. Assistant Commissioner Dannye Maloney replaced then AC Overland on his promotion to Deputy Commissioner. On 6 April 2009, I assumed the role of Chair following DC Overland’s promotion to Commissioner.
43. The Taskforce Petra IMC provided strategic oversight and direction to the investigation team and supported the work of the taskforce by providing resources and facilitating outcomes in the fiirtherance of the investigation across the Victoria Police Force and
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with external agencies. As part of its function, it regularly reviewed the operational progress and strategy of the investigation.
44. When Taskforce Petra was established, DI Ryan led the investigation team and was responsible for the management of its day to day operations. He was assisted by DSS Shane O'Connell. In July 2008, Detective Inspector Steve Smith assumed the role of Taskforce manager, as D] Ryan returned to the Purana Taskforce.
45. Taskforce Petra had dealings with Ms Gobbo initially as a person of interest in relation to corroborating information from Carl Williams that Paul Dale had contacted Williams to assist in securing a "hitman" to murder the Hodsons.
46. Specifically:
(a) On or around 24 April 2007, Williams provided Victoria Police with a draft statement.8 The statement named Ms Gobbo as having: (i) called Williams and handed the phone to Dale at some point between January and March 2004; and (ii) met with Williams and told him to contact Dale, shortly after Dale was suspended. (b) The draft Williams statement was presented to the Taskforce Petra IMC on 24 April 2007.9 (c) Williams signed his statement on 24 April 2007.
47. Williams’ evidence lost significant probative value when he provided evidence on his plea between 27 and 30 April 2007. At this hearing, Justice King described his evidence as unsatisfactory. However, we continued to use material Williams gave us to inform our inquiries.
48. Between April 2007 and October 2008, the Taskforce (in addition to pursuing many other lines of inquiry) established that there was other evidence consistent with Williams’ claims about Ms Gobbo. This included information regarding meetings between Carl and George Williams and Ms Gobbo, surveillance and telephone intercepts. ‘0
49. While I have no independent recollection of this, I have become aware through the course of preparing this statement, that Taskforce Petra investigators met with Ms Gobbo in February and March 2008. I do not recall being aware that these meetings had occurred.
8 VPL.0005.0012.2497 9 VPL.0005.0012.2493 ‘° VPL.0005,0012.2135; VPL.0005.0012.2013; VPL.0005.0012.2059; VPL.0005.0012.2091, VPL.0005.0012.2013; VPL.0005.0012.2059; VPL.OOO5.0012.2091, VPL.0005.0012.2013; VPL.0005.0012.2059; VPL.0005.0012.2091
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50. The Taskforce subsequently interviewed Ms Gobbo on 17 November 2008. Taskforce Petra investigators concluded that she was not complicit in Dale and Williams’ conduct. Ms Gobbo was then involved in the investigation as a potential witness. I detail my knowledge of this in response to question 3 below.
51. I was involved in the management ofthe Taskforce until May 2010, when I transitioned to the role of Assistant Commissioner, Southern Metropolitan. As outlined above at paragraph 35, I began transitioning to this role in April 2010 and AC Dunne assumed the role of AC BSD and Chair of the Taskforce Petra Steering Committee. As with Briars, I was involved in Taskforce Petra throughout April and May 2010 in a handover capacity, before completing the transition to Southern Metro. I remained involved in providing some oversight of negotiations for Ms Gobbo throughout 2009 and the first half of 2010.
Taskforce Purana
52. Through my role at Victoria Police, I was generally aware that a Taskforce known as Taskforce Purana had been established to investigate the so called "gangland killings".
53. In May 2009, I became aware that Taskforce Petra had been approached by members of Taskforce Purana to arrange a meeting with Ms Gobbo, a person identified as _ mud Purana members.‘l
54. This was my only involvement with Taskforce Purana and Ms Gobbo.
Use of Ms Gobbo as a human source cm
55. Due to the passage of time, the precise sequence of events set out below is no longer clear to me.
56. I cannot recall precisely when I became aware that Ms Gobbo was providing information or assistance to Victoria Police.
Operation Khadi
57. Ihave seen Detective Superintendent Wilson’s diary entry for 6 June 2006, which states that then AC Overland discussed Ms Gobbo’s involvement as a human source at a meeting between Detective Superintendent Wilson, AC Overland, Superintendent Masters and I regarding Operation Khadi.
58. Although I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of Detective Superintendent Wilson’s diary entry, for a number of reasons I do not believe that I was told at this meeting or
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otherwise at this time that Ms Gobbo was providing information or assistance to Victoria Police.
59. I have no independent recollection of this meeting. I have no recollection of being aware at this time that Ms Gobbo was a human source. I believe that if I was told at this meeting that Ms Gobbo was providing information or assistance to Victoria Police I would remember.
60. Ms Gobbo was on my radar at this time as a person of interest. She was someone who was known to us to socialise heavily with criminals and with police officers who were suspected to be corrupt.
61. I believe that I would remember if I had been told at this time that Ms Gobbo was a human source for a number of reasons:
(a) it is extraordinary to use a barrister as a human source;
(b) if you move to use a human source as a witness then it would be entirely onhodox to disclose their use as an informer; and (0) Ms Gobbo’s close relationships with police officers and criminals risked compromising the human source’s safety. Taskforce Briars —first phase
62. In relation to paragraph 36(a) above, I cannot recall being aware that Ms Gobbo was providing information about Lalor and Waters at the time it was occurring.
63. The first reference to Ms Gobbo as a human source in my records is a reference to 3838 within my notes of a Taskforce Briars IMC meeting on 10 September 2007. DC Overland, Detective Superintendent Wilson, and I attended.
64. At the establishment of Taskforce Briars, David Waters and Peter Lalor were identified as key suspects. We believed that Waters and Lalor were involved in providing- _— with Mr Chartres~Abbott‘s residential address. This information allowed- to target Mr Chartres-Abbott in the vicinity of his home and to -
65. We also believed that Lalor had colluded in creating an alibi for -by arranging for an outstanding warrant to be executed on-on the afiernoon of the murder.
66. My notes regarding the discussion in relation to the anticipated OPI hearings state as follows: '2
3838
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"Note meeting with Waters, [unintelligible], Lalor > Discussions re OPI hearings Sandy While-O ° Run the info re- "roll over" through 3838 via ° Note the-feedback. ' Note discussions with Graham Ashton re Lalor's beliefabout what the OPI matter was about - IDs the-issue/ not Kit Walker - Execute W (warrant) at request ofBernie Balmer - Perry has disappeared - warrant issued. Alerts issued. > Arrest phase still 6 weeks out (end Oct). -- in 10 days—time after 3838 story ' Suspend Lalor on Wednesdayfollowing rehearing. "
67. The above notes are the earliest record I have which mentions 3838. I cannot recall the precise details of this conversation, however I do not believe that I was aware at this stage that the reference to 3838 was a reference to Ms Gobbo. I understood then that reference to a person by number probably meant the person was a registered human source. I was aware at this time that a human source was providing information to Victoria Police regarding Waters and Lalor.
68. I recall from my note," discussions re OPI hearings", that the person identified as 3838 had been party to a conversation with Waters and Lalor about the subject matter of the OPI hearing. It was intended that Lalor and Waters would participate in OPI hearings so as to commit them to a story as part of the broader investigation strategy.
69. Assistant Director Ashton, in the course of us discussing this information, confirmed that it was apparent to him, in the course of Lalor’s examination at the OPI hearing, that it had dawned on Lalor what the OPI hearing was really about — his assistance to
70. I recall that we were keen to understand from 3838 what was discussed at the meeting with Waters and Lalor. We agreed to take the opportunity, through the Human Source Sandywmteo Mana ement Unit 1 i to ask 3838 to— h with Waters and Lalor. It was intended that that had told police about #3838Water’s and Lalor’s involvement with .
71. Reviewing the notes, I note that "3838" is written above and next to entries that I have crossed out. I cannot recall why I did so, or what the original notation was. I suspect that I initially misheard the number and then corrected it during the meeting. I do not think it is likely that the crossed out section listed Ms Gobbo’s name. I initially
r-Qz,
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misheard the number and then corrected it during the meeting. I do not think it is likely that the crossed out section listed Ms Gobbo’s name.
72. I cannot recall being aware at that meeting that 3838 was Ms Nicola Gobbo. It is not my practice to ask for the identity of a human source, unless I have an identified operational reason for knowing such information.
73. As was my practice, I took notes during the IMC meetings. My notes refer to “3 83 8” at Taskforce Briars IMC meetings on 24 September 2007,13 1 October 2007,14 and 29 October 2007.”
74. I attended 14 further Taskforce Briars IMC meetings between 19 November 2007 and 1 September 2008 without further mention of Ms Gobbo (in any guise).
75. I do not recall knowing, over this period, the identity of 3838, nor do I recall that information being disclosed to me over that period.
Taskforce Petra 76. I became aware during the Taskforce Petra IMC meeting on 13 October 2008 that Petra investigators were to interview Ms Gobbo regarding their investigations. This followed my awareness of her as a person of interest mentioned in Williams’ statement, as detailed at paragraph 46 above. As outlined above, I am now aware that Petra investigators met with Ms Gobbo earlier in 2008. I am not sure when or how I became aware of this.
77. Pages 2 and 3 ofthe briefing note prepared for the 13 October 2008 IMC meeting refer to Ms Gobbo.l6 Page 3 states:
"Gobbo to be interviewed by investigators regarding this inquily. " 78. The briefing note for the Taskforce Petra IMC meeting on 3 November 2008 indicates that Ms Gobbo was to be interviewed in relation to the connection between Williams and Dale.17 This interview occurred on 17 November 2008.18
79. My notes from the Taskforce Petra IMC meeting on 17 November 200819 record that we were briefed as follows in relation to the interview with Ms Gobbo,
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“Re Gobbo 0 Re Watergardens phone call. 0 Corrupt relationship b/w Williams and Dale. She denies complicity in setting up meetings " 0 Covert mobiles were used by her. —phonesfrom Ahmed
80. It was then evident to me that Ms Gobbo was now a potential witness in relation to the involvement of Paul Dale and Carl Williams in the murder of the Hodsons.
81. Briefing notes from the Taskforce Petra IMC meetings of 24 November 2008 and 8 December 2008 refer to further discussions between investigators and Ms Gobbo.20 In particular, the briefing note of 24 November 2008 referred to the interview with Ms Gobbo on Monday 17 November and stated as follows:
0 ”confirmed relations/zip between Dale and Williams 0 Confirmed that she assisted in setting up the meeting between Williams and Dale. 0 Maintains that she is not aware ofeither persons involvement in the Hodson murders. ” 0 Will consider providing a statement to Petra investigators. My notes against this entry state: ” “further meeting end this week. 82. The briefing note for 8 December 200821 referred to this further meeting, which occurred on 7 December 2008:
"Watergardens Phone Call - Williams to Dale - Gobbo spoke to investigators on 7.12.2008 0 Confirmed she had recently spoken with Dale 0 He told her about attending coercive hearing
0 General discussion about hearing - discussion about Collins, Williams 0 Dale speculating about evidence against him. ”
83. I understood at that time that Ms Gobbo was not acting for Mr Dale as his lawyer.
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84. Following my return from leave, I attended the next Taskforce Petra IMC on 22 January 2009. The following is recorded in a copy of the briefing note which I believe was tabled at that meeting:22
"Interview of Witness F - Statement obtained on 01/01/09 & 02/01/09. Statement signed on 07/01/09, - application prepared and ready to be submitted. - Application submitted.
- Witness introduced to - -As-/msesngasers-eueses—
-—ongoing with witness. ”
85. I understood the reference to “Witness F" to be a reference to Ms Gobbo. Given that Ms Gobbo was now bein dealt with as a witness rather than as a erson of interest) and that she was I understood it was no longer appropriate to refer to her by name for reasons of witness security. I understood that while I was on leave, the decision had been made to take her- and that she was to be referred to from that point on, as "Witness F".
86. I also understood the statement had been taken from Ms Gobbo with the intention that it be included in the briefof evidence which was being compiled in support of Mr Dale being prosecuted for the murder of the Hodsons. It was clear to me at that time that we were obliged to disclose the statement to Mr Dale's defence in the event that a prosecution was brought against him. I also understood that we would be obliged to disclose her identity to the Court and to Mr Dale's defence.
87. I caused the VGSO to be briefed in late January or early February 2009 in relation to the drafting of a Memorandum of Understanding regarding Ms Gobbo’s _ From February 2009 onwards I would periodically receive updates regarding Ms cosss’s—. 88. Her status as a witness was disclosed to the defence at the earliest opportunity, at Mr Dale's bail hearing on 13 March 2009. Both the Court and Mr Dale were on notice that we would seek to rely on evidence from Ms Gobbo. Both Mr Dale and the Court then had the opportunity, which both took, to make submissions and consider the fairness and lawfulness of our reliance on that evidence. This was also in keeping with our
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disclosure to the DPP that we would be seeking to rely on evidence from Ms Gobbo. The DPP‘s position, as I understood it, was that Ms Gobbo was a compellable witness.
89. Another reason why I do not believe that I had been told earlier about Ms Gobbo’s registration as a human source is that I recall believing that at this time we were complying with our disclosure obligations in relation to Ms Gobbo’s assistance to police.
90. The briefing note tabled at the Taskforce Petra IMC meeting on 16 March 2009, states:23
”Dale Dale bail application heard on I3 March 2009 before Justice Warren. ° Evidence tendered via aflidavit material. - Verbal evidence given by Sol Solomon and Cam Davey, both cross examined. - Thrust ofdefence arguments were, strength of the case, Williams cannot be relied upon, we have not charged Collins because we don ’t believe - the tape recording between Dale and Witness F is inadmissible and cannot be relied upon (client lawyer privilege), oppressive prison regime, he is going to lose his business. - Defence demanded production ofthe tape recording: judge ordered it produced to her but not to the defence. - Justice Warren will listen to tape recording and read Witness F statement. Will then make a decision. - Application adjourned sine die. - Issue with media reporting regarding witness F— OPP will be spoken to in relation to possible contempt proceedings against Channel 9 and 3A W. " and "Azzam Ahmed - That he provided safe phones to Witness F. "
91. The notes indicate that the Dale proceedings were addressing issues raised by Ms Gobbo’s status as a legal practitioner.
92. Subsequent Taskforce Petra IMC briefing notes document the ongoing efforts to conclude an agreement with Ms Gobbo in relation to
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_4 These were protracted negotiations, with Ms Gobbo agreeing and then withdrawing her agreement on numerous occasions. I would, from time to time, be updated regarding these negotiations.”
93. My notes from the Taskforce Petra IMC meeting on 16 March 2009 reflect that there was some interest in “others” wanting to speak to Ms Gobbo as a witness. My notes from that meeting record, “others want access to her as a witness: Not yet.”26 I do not recall the details of this discussion, but I believe this reference relates to Taskforce Briars investigators wanting to take a statement from Ms Gobbo.
94. On 31 March 2009 DC Overland chaired the Taskforce Petra IMC for the last time. I assumed the role of Chairperson on 6 April 2009. Members of the IMC now comprised me, Assistant Director Ashton (OPI), Detective Superintendent Paul Hollowood and AC Moloney. Meetings were held fortnightly, with weekly written updates presented to committee members by the taskforce manager.
Taskforce Briars — secondphase
95. As outlined above, it was decided in mid-March 2009 that Taskforce Briars was to be reconvened.
96. The taskforce investigation plan presented to the Taskforce Briars IMC on 6 April 2009 referred to following up with Witness D.27 Witness D was another pseudonym for Ms Gobbo.
97. The Taskforce Briars IMC met again on 20 April 2009. Under the part of the IMC briefing note which relates to suspect Mark Perry, I made the following note, "note 3838 may give statement re advice obtained from Perry." I cannot recall what the "advice obtained from Perry” related to.28
98. At the time of this meeting, it was clear to me that Ms Gobbo was 3838. However, I was not aware of the breadth of information that she had provided to Victoria Police. Consistent with my prior understanding of the role 3838 had played, I thought she had provided information in relation to Waters and Lalor.
99. My notes for the Taskforce Petra IMC meeting on 6 May 2009 record the following in relation to Ms Gobbo:29
2“ VPL.0005.0012.1751; VPL.0005.0012.1733; VPL.0005.0012.3573 25 VPL.0013.0001.0023; VPL_0005.0012.3549 25 VPL.0005.0012.1767 at 1771 ’7 VPL.0005.0012.0938: VPL.0005.0012.1313; VPL.0005.0012.0940 2“ VPL.0005.0012.0934 ’9 VPL.0005.0012.3609
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Re Witness F
- Briars stmt (statement) pencilled infor 19"" May. Neutral venue.
100. The briefing paper provided to the Taskforce Petra IMC meeting on 18 May 2009, noted the following in relation to Ms Gobbo:30
W o Intention to travel to Bali on 22 May with witness and introduce witness to Briars investigatorsfor the purposes ofobtaining statement ” from her.
10]. On 20 May 2009 I authorised Ms Gobbo’s travel expenses to Bali.31
102. On 27 May 2009, I had a telephone conversation with DI Smith, in which he briefed me about developments involving Ms Gobbo while in Bali. My notes of that conversation record the following:32
Re 3838 Day 1 preliminaries Day 2 evidence. Less than expected, but gaining in strength... to be completed today. Note it will 1D her as the source. Not a complete smoking gun, but significant value T0 assess tomorrowfor signature. 0000 NB. Rec ’d 3 death threats by text over past 24 hours. From SIM in false name. Notified and briefed COS & CCP & Fin McRae @ 1500hrs Discussed same with Cdr Hart. SS (Steve Smith) to liaise with Hart re coverage. 0000 SS to changeflights / return arrangements after Briars team has left. Not to tell the Briars team ofchanged arrangements.
103. On 27 May 2009, I received an email lfrom Kirs McIntr e from VGSO because we had been exploring the possibility of a form ofh for Ms Gobbo.33
3° VPL.0005.0012.3573 3‘ VPL.6049.0077.2120 32 VPL.0005.0012.3547 33 VPL.6049.0016.9613
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104. The briefing note prepared for the 1 June 2009 Taskforce Briars IMC meeting indicated that a draft statement had been obtained from Ms Gobbo.34 It was unsigned pending checks of source material.
105. My notes from that meeting record the following:35
Witness F 0 15 page statement. Thinks will sign. 0 Implicates Perry & Dave Waters suflicient to prosecute both of them. But there are issues: 0 She is .inaccurate. Latest version differs to her original version. 0 4 things ofvalue viz. Waters. 0 I" spoke 1" week April 07. 0 HS (He Said)-had done the murder. 0 Lalor had accessed him the address. Had not comefrom LEAP. tie. Stash (Lalor) had done the check but in an antraceable way. Other person present duringformulation ofthe conspiracy was —referredre e_ @
o Lalor provided with $1500for executing the warrant. 0 Askedfor copies ofIRS re Waters. Some [rs are missing. 0 Askedfor tapes, but refused. 0 LC to follow up with Tony Bigginfor access to the human source tapes. 0 Capable ofcorroboration. o Fits with -— Casino meeting 0 Fits with-
0 Note 3838 was talking to_& Tony Mockbel on the phone while talking to the Briars members before the threats arrived. , Calls will be picked up on Arunta. 0 Threats similar to Tony Bayer 0 Need complete profile ofher communications... 0 To do viz witness... 0 Photo board & to check with her diaries. ' + statementfrom- 0 - thenfurther opinionfrom DPP, 0 Note her risk will now be amplified, esp. with Waters in theframe.
3‘ VPL.0005.0012.0896; VPL.0005.0012.0894 35 VPL.0005.0012.0894
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0 Need access to the tapes B4 settling the statement. ”
106. It was clear to me from this briefing that Ms Gobbo was now being considered as a witness who may provide a statement in support of two key Taskforce Briars suspects, Mark Perry and David Waters.
107. I recall that the reference in my notes to “need access to the tapes” referred DI Waddell’s desire to check SDU’s records of taped conversations with Ms Gobbo to ensure that Ms Gobbo’s statement was consistent with the information she had previously provided to SDU members. This information related to the conversation she had with Waters and Lalor in April 2007. My notes on the briefing update indicate that DI Waddell had asked for copies of intelligence reports from SDU but had been refused, so I was to follow up with Superintendent Tony Biggin for access to the human source tapes. 36 This was an essential step before Ms Gobbo signed her statement. I also expected that this material might disclose the nature of the relationship between Ms Gobbo and the other parties to the conversation which occurred in April 2007.
108. The re—activated Taskforce Briars consulted with the OPP in relation to the admissibility of Ms Gobbo’s evidence from at least June 2009. My notes from the reactivated Taskforce Briars IMC meetings in April and June 2009 record engagements with the OPP.37 Some of these engagements related to the new witness, Others, however, related specifically to Ms Gobbo. The focus was on ensuring that any subsistence or protection provided to her did not risk the perception of improper inducements. We also were concerned to know the OPP’s views on the strength ofthe case without Ms Gobbo’s evidence.
109. At 8.11pm on 1 June 2009 I received an email from Dl Waddell requesting access to source material.38 DI Waddell outlined the materials he wanted access to and stated that he was seeking this material “to complete the statement made by 3838 and to satisfy myself that the statement is based upon the best available evidence and there are no surprises down the track’. On 2 June 2009, I forwarded this email to Superintendent Rod Journing (who at the time was in charge of the SDU) to facilitate DI Waddell’s request.39
110. I recall that around this time, DI Waddell informed me that Victoria Police had been served with a subpoena from lawyers acting for Tony Mokbel. The subpoena was dated 1 June 2009 and returnable 1 July 2009 before Justice Kay.40 I recall that the scope of this subpoena was the subject of much dispute and negotiation between Victoria Police
37 VPL.0005.0012.0938; VPL.0005.0012.0944; VPL.0005.0012.0_894 3” VPL.0005.0012.0858 39 VPL.0005.0012.0858 ‘0 VPL.0005.0012.1206; VPL.0005.0012.1208
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and Mr Mokbel through their respective legal representatives which continued until 2011. I was not, however directly involved in this process.
111. I recall however that we were concerned as the terms of the subpoena would have captured material which would (i) disclose Ms Gobbo’s identity and (ii) that Ms Gobbo was a potential witness in relation to possible prosecutions against Mr Waters and Mr Lalor, while those inquires remained on foot. We were concerned that such disclosure might compromise those ongoing investigations. Accordingly, I arranged a meeting with myself, Superintendent Journing, Superintendent Mark Porter, DI Steve Waddell and AC Moloney to consider those concerns.
112. This meeting occurred on 10 June 2009. My notes from the meeting record the following:41
Re 3838 0 How far does 3838’s stmt take us? - Probably enough to charge vs matterfor DPP. 0 Balance with benefit to Briars vs potential harm to witness. 0 Will her evidence be admissible? o Lawyer client privilege? 0 Only iflawyer / client r ’ship exists. 0 She says she was not, at the time actingfor Waters , lawyer/ client r ’ship did not exist.
1. Steve Wto assess the --— material to assess any risks to credit 2. Then assess the probative value ofthe stmt B4 it is signed. 3. Need to clearly scope the ——— + filter material on the Human Source side and then release the material to SWfor assessment Note the Mockbel Aflidavit. 0 Gerard Mcguire briefed. Agreed he needs to be briefed about 3838 — relevance per par 18, 4’” dot point, p6. Subpoena re Antonius Mockbel, returnable on 1.7.9.
113. I understood at that stage that DI Waddell had yet to be provided with access to the human source material and so we remained unable to make an assessment ofthe matters outlined in the meeting in 10 June 2009.
114. After the meeting on 10 June 2009, I received an email from DI Waddell reiterating our concerns regarding the Mokbel subpoena and the risks it could pose to Taskforce Briars.42
‘1 VPL.0005.0012.0838 ‘2 VPL.6049.0017.0878
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115. My notes from the Taskforce Briars meeting on 13 July 2009 indicate that at some stage between 29 June 2009 and this meeting, DI Waddell was granted access to the relevant source material and had commenced his review.“ My notes from the Taskforce Briars IMC on 13 July 2009 record the following:44
3. 3838 0 2/3 way through the material. 0 Liaising with Vanessa Twig re access to OPI material. 0 Summary to date received
1 I6. I remember that around the time that D] Waddell started reviewing the SDU materials he advised me that they had “extensive holdings”. This did not seem right to me if Ms Gobbo had only provided information in relation to Lalor and Waters.
1 17. I recall that during the course of his review of the SDU materials, DI Waddell prepared a summary of Ms Gobbo’s evidence. This summary was presented to the IMC at the Taskforce Briars meeting on 13 July 2009. Under a heading titled issues, the summary includes the following:45
Is source actingfor Waters — at one stage source tells handlers that he will come to herfor advice re OPI hearing — sounds like acting in capacity as (sic) solicitor. In otherparts ofmaterial source makes it clear she has only ever actedfor Water on 56a application re Straw/torn — only other advice she has proffered has as afriend
Can prepared statement be used in evidence —
118. I recall that this was the first time that a concern was raised with me regarding Ms Gobbo providing information to Victoria Police in relation to her professional obligations as a legal practitioner. I also recall that around this time there were concerns within Taskforce Briars regarding the admissibility of her statement.
119. On 15 July 2009, I received an email from DI Waddell formally raising his concerns regarding Ms Gobbo’s evidence. His email included the following:46
I am seeking your authority tofurther engage Gerard McGuire to provide advice on the admissibility or otherwise of certain aspects of 3838 statement. There are a number ofissues eflecting the admissibility ofsome parts of the statement including potential legal professional privilege,
‘3 VPL.0005.0012.0826 4‘ VPL.0005.0012.0826 ‘5 VPL.0005.0012.0828 ‘9 VPL.0013.0001.0103
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opinion and probative v prejudicial value. This advice is important in ensuring the board is properly informed when making their decision as to whether to proceed. As Gerard can be trusted and is already across the issues I see him as posing no additional risk to the security of this. I forwardfor your consideration.
120. I recall being concerned seeing the reference to “potential legal professional privilege”. Considering the issue, I was of the view that, as suggested by DI Waddell, the most appropriate course of action in response to this concern was to seek independent legal advice. Accordingly, on 17 July 2009, I forwarded DI Waddell’s email to Findlay McRae to action Waddell’s request.47
121. Another reason why I do not believe that I knew any earlier about Ms Gobbo’s registration as a human source is that it would have raised the same red flags then as it did in July 2009. I expect if I had found out in 2006, I would have done the same thing that I did in 2009 — obtain independent legal advice.
122. At the time, Mr Maguire was also considering Victoria Police’s response to the subpoena referred to above at paragraph 1 10. I understood and expected that following my email to Mr McRae that the advice from Mr Maguire would also address the concerns in relation to legal professional privilege.
123. The Taskforce Briars update dated 27 July 2009 indicates that as at that date, Victoria Police had briefed Mr Maguire to advise on Gobbo’s statement, in addition to his work regarding the Mokbel subpoena.48 The update included the following:
Maguire examining statement re admissibility and probative issues. He will also provide advice on the prospect of statement being protected during discovery process of PETRA/BRIARS prosecutions should we not ’ rely on that statement.
Investigation cannot move forward until situation clarified with this witness — whether to proceed as a witness—
124. At this time, I recall being aware that Mr Maguire had previously provided advice to Victoria Police in relation to a number of Public Interest Immunity issues.
125. I have reviewed notes of an “Extraordinary Meeting of Petra Board” on 5 August 2009 that Assistant Director (0P1) Graham Ashton, Commander James Hart, AC Moloney, and Mr McRae attended. We were briefed by DI Smith that Ms Gobbo had started
‘7 VPL.0013.0001.0087 4a VPL.0005.0012.031B
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making noises about not giving evidence on medical grounds and that negotiations for were ongoing.49
126. On 12 August 2009, I received an email from DI Smith that attached a report from uoyd-□s the discussions that had occurred with Ms Gobbo about There was difficulty obtaining
127. The Taskforce Briars update dated 24 August 2009 noted that Mr Maguire was still 50 examining Ms Gobbo's statement. It also stated that
early advice from Maguire is that witnesses past can probably be protected in prosecution of Dale. On other hand it is probable that ifPerry is charged with murder it is probably that extent of witness assistance will be known.
128. I do not recall anything further aboutthis "early advice".
129. The Taskforce Briars update dated 7 September 2009 stated that definitive advice from Mr Maguire was expected that week.51 I cannot recall seeing any final advice from Mr Maguire, nor being told about its contents. I have not been able to locate a copy of any written advice from Mr Maguire in preparing this statement.
130. My notes from the Taskforce Briars update dated 5 October 2009 state under a heading 'Witness D': 52
Statement now used in SDA and TI affidavits. Statement to be signed at some stage.
131. I understand this to mean that Ms Gobbo's statement was being used in affidavits in support of applications forsurveillance and telephone intercept warrants.
132. I cannot recall the exact progress of Ms Gobbo's draft statement following this Taskforce Update. I recall that during this time furthercorrespondence was exchanged between Ms Gobbo and Victoria Police regarding the terms upon which she would or otherwise receive protection and assistance from Victoria Police and that negotiations were becoming difficult.
VPL.0005.0012.3359
50 VPL.0005.0012.0796 51 VPL.0005.0012.0774 52 VPL.0005.0012.0768
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133. I have seen an email that I sent on 27 August 2009 to Superintendent Jeffrey Forti that states:53
Jejf Re witness F. Kieran W signed the letter last night. Steve Smith will serve her with the letter this morning. More to come...
Luke
134. This email was sent further to an email from Inspector to Bruce Wemyss on 26 August 2009 which stated that I “wished to advise that the letter has been signed by DC Kieran Walshe today 26 August 2009 with service happening tomorrow 27/8/09.” My recollection is that my staff officer sent this email in error to Superintendent Forti, as the intended recipient of the email was Mr Geoff Allway.
135. I have located notes of a meeting on 9 September 2009 which involved Mr McRae, DI Smith, “VGSO” and 1.54 Whilst I cannot recall who from VGSO attended this meeting, I have viewed a file note of the meeting, which I believe was taken by Mr McRae or DI Smith, which states that Isobel Parsons and David Ryan attended from VGSO.55 The notes include a reference to “respond by letter from KW”. I believe that KW is a reference to DC Walshe and that the letter in question was subsequently sent to Ms Gobbo on 14 September 2009.56 I cannot recall if this is the same or a different letter to that which DC Walshe signed on 26 August 2009.
136. On 15 September 2009, Ireceived an email from DI Smith providing an update “[i]n relation to today’s activities re Witness F”.57 This was one of a number of routine briefings I received in relation to protection arrangements in place concerning Ms Gobbo. I would receive these updates from DI Smith either verbally or on occasion by email.
137. Between 14 October 2009 and 7 December 2009 I was forwarded a number of emails sent between Detective Superintendent Wilson and Catherine Gobbo and DI Smith and Catherine Gobbo in relation to the ongoing negotiations regarding Ms Gobbo’s - I recall that at this time Mr McRae was regularly liaising with lawyers from VGSO regarding communication with Catherine Gobbo.58
53 VPL.6049.0018.6931 5‘ VPL.0005.0012.3277 55 VPL.0005.0003.3385 56 VPL.0005.0012.3271 57 VPL.6049.0018.2402 5° VF’L.6049_0067.4794; VPL.6049.0018.9696; VPL.6049.0067.3502
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138. 011 22 January 2010 I attended a Taskforce Petra IMC special meeting. My notes of the meeting record that we discussed writing a “short letter back to F”, and that we would “attach [the] witness MOU to go to F’s lawyers”.59
139. On 26 February 2010 I sent an email to the Director of Public Prosecutions Jeremy Rapke requesting a meeting in relation to “witness F” and the consequences of her demands for monetary payment on her credibility.
140. I subsequently met with Mr Rapke and his staff (Mr Horgan and Mr Tiernan) on 1 March 2010 to discuss Ms Gobbo’s — arrangements and subsistence paymentséol do not recall Ms Gobbo’s identity as a source being disclosed or discussed during this meeting. I am aware that Mr McRae had initiated discussions with the DPP in or around January 2010 regarding this matter.
141. I am also aware that around 26 February 2010, the DPP was in contact with Mr' McRae and I about claims by Ms Gobbo that she was medically unfit to provide evidence.“
142. In March 2010 I received updates from DI Smith regarding Ms Gobbo’s application to set aside the subpoena to give evidence at Paul Dale’s committal hearing. I continued to be in contact with Mr McRae regarding Ms Gobbo’s— - We continued to be of the view that —was the best mechanism to protect Ms Gobbo’s safety.52 I recall that at this stage Ms Gobbo was refusing to have any direct contact with Taskforce Petra investigators which made managing her safety very difficult.
143. I received emails in March and April 2010 in relation to Ms Gobbo’s application to set aside the subpoena and the applications for suppression orders in relation to both Carl Williams and Ms Gobbo.
144. On 30 April 2010 I received a copy ofMs Gobbo’s writ and statement of claim however I had no role in managing that matter.63
145. In relation to Ms Gobbo’s Taskforce Briars statement, the Taskforce update of 31 May 201 0 indicates that at this date, Ms Gobbo’s statement has been provided to the OPP to assess ‘its value in potential prosecutiort’.64 I recall that the OPP was to review the draft statement in terms of admissibility and in relation to the concerns raised by DI Waddell.
55 VPL.0005.0012.2981 6° VPL.0005.0012.2861 5‘ VPL.0005.0012.2865; VPL.6049.0101.0978 62 VPL.6049.0073.4516 63 VPL.6049.0099.9832 5‘ VPL.0005.0012.0652
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146. I am not aware ofwhat followed the OPP review, as I then assumed the role ofAssistant Commissioner for the Southern Metropolitan Region.
147. I am aware that in August 2010, Taskforce Petra was dissolved and that Taskforce Driver assumed carriage of its ongoing investigations. In April 2010 I was included in emails related to that process but recollection was that AC Dunne was taking the lead role with this operation as I was transitioning to Southern Metro.65
148. l was not particularly surprised by this decision. It was relatively normal for responsibility for an investigation to transition between Taskforces from time to time, to allow it to be looked at with fresh eyes. I have seen this occur numerous times throughout my career. I do recall thinking that the closure of the taskforce may have been disheartening for members of Taskforce Petra given their efforts. I recall reaching out to the Taskforce Petra investigators for welfare purposes when the transition occurred.
Question 4
149. I refer to my answers to 2 and 3 above.
Questi_on‘5
150. I am not aware of who was involved in the authorisation.
Question 6
151. I have never had any personal contact with Ms Gobbo.
Question 7
152. I refer to my answers to questions 2 and 3 above.
Question 8
153. I refer to my answers to questions 2 and 3 above.
Question 9
154. I refer to my answer to question 3 above.
Question 10
155. I refer to my answer to question 9 above.
Question 1 1
55 VPL.6049.0101.1657
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156. I refer to my answer to question 3 above at paragraph 91 and my answer to question 9 above.
Other matters
Question 12
157. I am not aware of any other human sources (even in the wider definition adopted in the Commissioner’s letter requesting this statement) who were subject to legal obligations of confidentiality or privilege.
Question 13
158. As detailed in response to question 1 above, I arrived at Victoria Police at a senior rank. My training in relation to these areas therefore was primarily during my time at the AFP. In particular, this included:
(a) completing a law degree and diploma of legal practice; and (b) completing detective training.
159. This training, and my experience as detail response to question I, touched on all the issues relevant to this question.
160. When I moved to Victoria Police, one ofmy functions was to oversee training for Police Prosecutors, Fundamental disclosure obligations, ethics and the rights of the accused are all addressed as part of this training.
Question 14 161. I have read the High Court’s decision and the decision of Justice Ginnane. In preparing this witness statement I have reflected on the events that have led to this Royal Commission. 162. As a qualified lawyer admitted to practice as a barrister and solicitor of the ACT Supreme Court, and an experienced Police Officer, I am well aware of — and committed to - the principles that exist to protect an accused’s right to a fair trial. In particular, the accused’s right to be represented by a lawyer acting in the accused’s interests second only to their role as an officer of the court.
163. It is my strong View that the use of Nicola Gobbo in the manner she was as a human source should not have happened. I agree with the decision of the High Court. 164. In saying this, I am nevertheless sympathetic to the position of a number of individual police officers who were having to deal with unique and unusual situations as they arose. Police officers were in a very difficult position being in possession of information that was important and needed to be investigated. They could not “unknow” what they had been told. However, I do not, and never have, subscribed to an “end justifies the means” argument. It does not.
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Dated: 20 September 2019
AC Luke Cornelius APM
Luke Cornelius APM Assistant Commissioner North West Metro Region
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