ACT Heritage Library Manuscript Collection

Engineering Heritage Professional Career Series

Ken Gillespie

Interviewed Wednesday 12 September 2011

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CD1 = 60 minutes Time Subject Proper Names & Keywords

0.00-0.60 Interview introduction. Kenneth (Ken) James Gillespie Kenneth James Gillespie of 4 Hann Street, Griffith, ACT born in , Brisbane, Queensland Queensland on 28 June 1952. Killarney, Queensland Lived in Brisbane, then on a farm on , Queensland border – Killarney. 0.60-5.40 Family Background – details of mother and father. Father: Albert James (Jim) Father was born in Killarney and lived and worked ‘on Gillespie the land’ in that district before World War II. After the Killarney, Queensland war he worked as a motor-trimmer. Ken describes this Acacia Creek now defunct trade. Returned to farming at Acacia Dairy Farming Creek, bordered on the border fence between Sawmilling, Central Queensland and New South Wales. Dairy farming. Koreelah, NSW Moved into New South Wales; worked at a sawmill. Skinner’s Coaches After a sawmilling accident family returned to Killarney Toowoomba, Queensland and worked for a coach company. Ran a service station Bribie Island, Queensland for in Toowoomba until retirement. Retired back to Killarney, now at Bribie Island. 5.40-8.20 Ken relates recent family gathering and reminiscences Living on the farm of the family on the farm. Relates interest in radio Radio program on the which influenced him. Army Importance of the radio to country living. Telephone 8.20- Family Background continued – mother’s father was a Mother: Heather Nola Ross 10.30 station master, met his father in Killarney. Describes Steam Trains interest in steam trains and visiting his grandparents. Newmarket, Brisbane Recalls Newmarket, Brisbane and watching the trains go by. Mother was a bookkeeper before marriage, then a farm wife. Worked at Service Station – a partnership.

10.30- Siblings: four boys; Ken’s eldest. Describes growing up Brothers: Bill, Colin and 15.30 on the farm. Talks about closeness to his brothers, in Geoffrey particular, Geoffrey, who also went into the army. Describes Bill and Colin’s careers. Talks about Geoffrey’s army career. 15.30- Working and living on the farm – difficult times, such Farm life

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16.30 as drought and other issues. 16.30- Attended school over the border fence in Queensland Mountain View State School 19.45 – a two mile walk. Small school, one teacher taught Ernest L Shock three generations of Gillespie’s = grandmother, father Border Fence and Ken. Queensland and New South Describes teacher as being ‘Victorian’. Enjoyed school Wales – relates story about a parrot and having to let it go at the border fence. Border fence – tick and rabbit control. Grandfather and father worked along the border fence. 19.45- School mates – many children were related. The School Life 22.00 Gillespies settled in Warwick/Killarney area from Killarney Show 2011 Ireland in mid-1800s. Opened the Killarney Show before retiring this year. 22.00- Continues with description of attending primary and Central Koreelah State 28.20 high school; finished primary school at Inala West State School School, Brisbane and Inala State High School for years Inala West State School 8, 9 & 10, then joined the Army at age 15. Describes Inala State High School the school, its teachers and students. Difficulty with George Negus certain teacher and science subjects, especially Wayne Goss physics. 28.20- Army Apprentice School. Relates story of sporting Army Apprentice School 33.25 event and getting into the School. Joined the Army, Balcombe, Victoria travelled to Balcombe on coach to begin army life. Spent three years at the school on Port Phillip Bay. Describes barrack life as ‘rustic’. Enjoyed the boarding type school life. Problems at the school – ‘challenging environment’ – such as ‘bastardisation’. Story about insurance salesmen. Good education with a good start in life. 33.25- Vietnam war era. Colonel Max Johnson taught them Vietnam War 37.20 about respect; remembers other father figures Colonel Max Johnson including Alec Weaver. Influenced to pursue an officer Major Alec Weaver career. Describes apprenticeship training in bricklaying. Bricklaying Final year in Sydney with a civilian builder then applied Portsea, Victoria for Portsea for officer training; also had a posting order as a sapper bricklayer to Vietnam. This was the end of 1972, Whitlam in government and ended conscription. Relates difficulties for the army and the officers’ cadet school with this decision. Doesn’t regret not going to

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Vietnam but was shaped by it. 37.20- Officers training – 12 month course. Relates the Duntroon 40.40 different ways to become an officer within the army: Portsea Duntroon, Portsea and Skyville (Western Sydney). Skyville Portsea produced infantry platoon commanders, also Married Life administration, subjects such as logic. A robust course – designed to stress students. Enjoyed the college life (graduated at 20). Describes first marriage to Kathy. 40.40- Describes civilian attachment to a builder in Sydney for Bricklaying 43.30 one year. Also relates type of work undertaken by Military Engineering bricklayers in the army – building barracks and other Sapper facilities. Now undertaken by contractors. Explains term: sapper = private in the engineers; origins from the medieval period. 43.30- Army apprentice school was about ‘building’ and Military Engineering 48.00 construction techniques; after officer training and at Civil Engineering the School of Military Engineering learned more about Royal Australian Engineers basic military engineering and civil engineering (parts A (RAE) & B) including surveying, soils, hydraulics and structures. Learned how to be a combat engineer; building equipment bridges; simple engineering tasks quickly and robustly. Needed to understand the technical engineering skills required in the Engineering Corps but also leadership and combat engineering as well. Engineers as good project managers and leadership of engineers and soldiers. 48.00- Provides an example of leadership with an engineering Leadership 54.20 exercise in Shoalwater Bay – difficulties encountered Engineering exercise and resolved by a soldier not the leaders or ‘brains Shoalwater Bay, Queensland trust’ of the regiment. Explains why this story is Problem solving significant in problem solving and good leadership. 54.20- Explains army promotion and ranking; Rivalry between Army Promotion 60.00 Portsea and Duntroon graduates; opportunities for Portsea women in the army. Describes the Womens Royal Duntroon Corps (WRAAC) – officer training at Womens Royal Australian Georges Heights, Sydney. It disbanded in the early Army Corps (WRAAC) 1990s and women joined the Corps affiliated with at Georges Heights, Sydney that time; now training is same as men. Discusses Major Elizabeth positive discrimination for women and women against Cosson this policy.

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End of CD 1 CD2 = 54 minutes 0.00-4.45 School of Military Engineering – Transport Officer, then School of Military Troop Commander of sappers. Describes course. Went Engineering to Kapooka as recruit platoon commander, then Kapooka, NSW posted to Brisbane for first engineer regiment – 2nd 2nd Field Engineers, Brisbane Field Engineer Regiment. Talks about army regiments: engineering and construction tasks. Wanted to be a helicopter pilot – talked out of it. Mentions other possibilities after Portsea graduation – armour or engineer – talked out of armour and steered again towards engineers. 4.45- Description of work of 2nd Field Engineers. Made 2nd Field Engineers, Brisbane 11.10 Captain and posted as second in command of a field Kangaroo II Exercises engineers squadron (1976). Large exercise, Kangaroo 2 Shoalwater Bay – built roads, culverts, etc in Shoalwater Bay (new Leadership training area). Married with one child at that time. Annual Reports Moved to another squadron – construction. Raised Bravery another squadron – combat engineering squadron. Provided important leadership background for future career. Wrote annual reports, each soldier received an annual report/assessment = first test of bravery. 11.10- Addressed the problem of alcohol in the military. Alcoholism 22.00 Immediate post-Vietnam War era; alcohol was the only Post-Vietnam War nightly entertainment. Talks about the arrival of Major Major Doug George Doug George – a civil engineer – operations officer of Namibia the regiment. Doug “bucked the trend”. Observed unit gravitating towards Doug’s approach to alcohol. Began to professionalise the organisation and set an example, also during his time in Namibia. Describes issues around alcohol and the army. 22.00- Under public scrutiny and in public media. Challenges Ethical and Moral Leadership 23.50 of ethical and moral leadership. Decision to end Media wearing of berets due to skin cancer – ensuring a safe Berets working environment. Occupational Health & Safety

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23.50- From 1979 spent 12 months with army reserve Army Reserve Engineer 28.35 engineer regiment – the administrator and coordinator Regiment for the reservists. Gateway to promotion via a reserve Army Apprentice School, appointment. In 1980, went back to Army Apprentice Balcombe, Victoria School at Balcombe, Victoria. Works Officer, in charge Apprentice Company of facilities. In charge of Apprentice Company. Commander Marriage failed, separated, two children – talks about Marriage Failure children; now has one granddaughter. (Separation) Children and Grandchild 28.35- Differences between an army apprentice and a civilian Apprentice system 30.40 apprentice. Victorian Technical Leaving Certificate. Victorian Technical Leaving Army apprentice shaped towards the military. Certificate Describes travelling home to family during apprenticeship days in Victoria. 30.40- Describes trades taught at Army Apprentice School. Army Apprentice School 35.05 Describes training of musicians at the school. Royal Australian Engineers Plans to move the school; challenges to keep the old (RAE) school going. School moved to Albury-Wodonga – first Royal Australian Electrical time enrolled women apprentices. and Mechanical Engineers (RAEME) Signals Musician Apprentices Women Apprentices 35.05- Moved to Holsworthy, Sydney – First Construction Holsworthy, Sydney 41.35 Regiment as the Adjutant. Describes the headquarters First Construction Regiment and squadrons and work undertaken. Responsible for Sir Ninian Stephen administration, operational functions and supporting Sydney’s Second Airport the Commanding Officer. Relates phone call from Sir Second marriage Ninian Stephen (Governor-General) and subsequent visit. Sydney’s second airport discussions – explains why this wasn’t going to happen. Married while at Holsworthy (Stella) – met at Balcombe; lived at Glenfield. 41.35- Posted to Brisbane in May 1983 – Operations Officer of 2nd/3rd Field Engineer 45.15 2nd/3rd Field Engineer Regiment and promoted to Regiment, Brisbane Major. Planned exercises, supported battalions and Germany brigades, included travel. Went to Germany, first of many overseas postings and trips. Describes postings and opportunities. 45.15- Selected for staff college (1985) – required promotion Staff College, Queenscliff,

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48.50 beyond Major. Appointed Exchange Instructor at Royal Victoria Military School of Engineering, England. Field Engineer Royal Military School of Branch. Describes responsibilities for the British Engineering, England military. Mentions Falklands War. Falklands War 48.50- First use of computers (Commodore 64). Designed Computer Programming 52.00 computer program for individual student reports. Student Course Reports Returned as Senior Instructor of School of Military School of Military Engineering. Responsible for technical content of the Engineering school. 52.00- Describes difference between British and Australian British Military 54.00 Military; also American Military. Arrived home (in Dec American Military 1987) much wiser and prouder of “who we were”. Promotion to Lieutenant Passed promotion board to Lt Colonel, then Namibia Colonel posting. Namibia End of CD 2

CD3 = 63 minutes 0.00-3.25 Royal Military School of Engineering in Chatham, Kent. Royal Military School of Describes environment and the school. Involved in Engineering, England events in 1987 to commemorate the 175th anniversary Royal Charter event of the granting of the royal charter to the royal engineers. Queen present for the affair. Describes the event orchestrated for Queen to walk over a bridge armed for demolition. 3.25- Returned to Australia as Senior Instructor at School of School of Military 11.35 Military Engineering. Past promotion board and asked Engineering to head up as Contingent 2 IC in Namibia. Explains Namibia contingents sent to Namibia, rotations and other United Nations challenges. Describes the United Nations (UN) South Africa involvement, international troops, elections and the South West African Peoples local environment encountered. Comments on 1989 Organisation and other world events including the release of Nelson Nelson Mandela Mandela. Speaks about Nelson Mandela. 11.35- Continues with UN and its mission achievements in United Nations

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17.10 Namibia. Comments on the UN and his first exposure A Distant Peace to this organisation. Differing levels of professionalism Roger Climpson encountered. Describes documentary (video) made National Film & Sound covering this time in Namibia, narrated by Roger Archive Climpson; video never released but archived at the Namibia Elections National Film & Sound Archive. Believes the election Electoral Monitors was successful because of the Australians; explains why. 17.10- Received the Conspicuous Service Medal for Namibia Conspicuous Service Medal 18.20 work. 18.20- Returned to the Royal Australian Engineering Corps – Royal Australian Engineers 24.15 the Directorate of Engineers – the technical hub of the (RAE) Corps. Responsible for the technical well-being of the Reorganisation of Regiments Corps, the “Institute inside the military”. Army in 3rd Combat Engineer process of reorganising. Responsible for its re-focus. Regiment Discusses performance and expectations amongst , Queensland army personnel. Change to size of regiments and “shrinking below critical mass”. Needed career path broadening for officers. Approval to raise three engineer regiments with 350 people each. Commander of the Townsville regiment. Describes the experience of raising a regiment and being an inaugural commander. 24.15- Comments his roles and positions of influence, lessons 3rd Combat Engineer 26.10 learned along the way. Continues describing this Regiment period within the military. Worldwide events: Somalia, Townsville, Queensland Rwanda, Cambodia. Break-up of second marriage. World Events Marriage Failure (Separation) 26.10- Attended Joint Services Staff College at Weston Creek, Joint Services Staff College 32.00 Canberra. A mid-rank career development course on Weston Creek, Canberra joint warfare with members of navy, air force, army, Land Headquarters, Sydney public service, overseas attendees. Returned to Sydney Carmel Moira O’Rourke after finishing course, fill in job at Land Headquarters before returning to the 3rd Combat Regiment. Relates story about meeting Carmel Moira O’Rourke, courtship, marriage and birth of Moira. Talks about Carmel’s work with Qantas. 32.00- Stayed with regiment till 1994 (from July 1992). 3rd Combat Engineer 36.00 Comments on promotion board and applying for Regiment

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Colonel, missed out on promotion. Selected to be staff officer to Chief of Defence Force, Admiral Alan Canberra Beaumont. Moved family to Canberra.

36.00- Describes working with CDF and with the Deputy Chief, General 40.45 Lt Gen John Baker, later General John Baker, CDF. A Intelligence reformist and head of Joint Intelligence Organisation in Joint Intelligence Centre (JIC) his early career. Involved in shaping modern conflicts. Promotion to Colonel Concerned about intelligence issues and the need to Sydney establish a new intelligence organisation specifically Family Life for the war fighter not just for Canberra (politicians/government/public servants). Ken advised that a war fighter should be its commander and sought the position (1995-97). Promoted to Colonel on his birthday. Returned to Sydney. Managing family life and work. 40.45- Sent to War College, London by Army Chief, John Lieutenant General John 46.00 Sanderson. Returns to story of buying Canberra home Sanderson in Hann Street, Griffith. Describes what War College is Griffith, Canberra – formal period of training for employment at senior War College of Defence ranks; living in London. Explains why sent to London. Studies, London, UK Talks about possible promotion to Brigadier in the future and missing out on postings and promotions. 46.00- Made an Order of Australia for time commanding the Order of Australia (for JIC) 48.50 Joint Intelligence Centre. Invited to return to Australia Promotion to Brigadier with promotion to Brigadier and as Chief of Staff of Chief of Staff of Training Training Command (1999). But returned to live in Command Sydney not to Canberra. Training Command Georges Heights, Middle headquarters located at Georges Heights. Travelled Harbour, Sydney through America. Worked for Major General Michael Major General Michael Keating, a reformist, Ken an acolyte and believer in his Keating reforms. 48.50- Peter Abigail, Deputy Chief of Army advised Ken on his Major General Peter Abigail 51.35 career and his potential promotions. Encouraged him East Timor to take on a brigade command which resulted in Griffith, Canberra assignment to East Timor for 11 months. After East Timor family moved into the Griffith house in Canberra; then September 11, 2001 happened. 51.35- Explains role and responsibilities in East Timor. East Timor

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55.40 Responsible for Sector West. Interaction with United Nations Indonesians; commanding a multi-national force Multi-National Brigade brigade; rotation of battalions; undertaking command Indonesians post exercises. Command Post Exercises 55.40- Describes introduction to East Timor operation and Major General Duncan Lewis 57.40 takeover from Duncan Lewis. Talks about being a East Timor national commander with a larger picture than a Brigade Command brigade commander. 57.40- Comments on the East Timor elections and the East East Timorese 63.00 Timorese. Relates story about East Timorese feeling NGOs (non-government insecure to secure – witnessed progress. Some organisations) successes, some failures; some difficulties with NGOs. Engineers Australia Conducted seminars with Engineers Australia Distinguished Service Cross afterwards. “How to bring maximum effort to the problem” – an initiative of Engineers Australia. Purpose of a military force in these operations. Received Distinguished Service Cross for leadership and performance in conflict situations. End of CD 3

CD4 = 50 minutes 0.00-3.45 Returned to Canberra and work at Army Headquarters, Army Headquarters, Director General of Preparedness and Plans, a planning Canberra organisation within headquarters. Worked on Operation Enduring Australia’s position after events in USA on September Freedom 11 (2001). Describes rush to complete new kitchen for Griffith home. Arrived in US on October 11 and began process for getting involved in the coalition of the willing for Operation Enduring Freedom. 3.45-8.20 Sent to US as the Contingent Commander based in Operation Enduring Tampa, Florida. Launched into the great unknown and Freedom the war on terror. Concerned about family back home. Tampa, Florida, USA Asked for support which included Roger Noble and Lieutenant Colonel Roger

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Derek White. Talks about the mood of Americans at Noble (later Brigadier) that time, people were worried and concerned. Captain Derek White

8.20- Describes initial contact with Australian Ambassador in Michael Thawley 11.20 Washington DC, Michael Thawley. Explains problems of Australian Ambassador, communication and intelligence sharing at that time Washington DC and how they overcame these obstacles. War on Terror Intelligence

11.20- Reception from Americans – thankful for Australian Living in Tampa, Florida 17.50 help and support. Comments on family contact and Personal Communication personal communication. Lack of diaries/letters from Counselling and support previous military operations. Speaks about times Major General Peter Abigail overseas, being on operations and being a commander Chris Ritchie – compartmentalising; issues of support, mentoring, (later ) relationships and counselling. Mentoring and Relationships 17.50- Issues of physical health; maintaining physical fitness Health and Fitness 22.00 and optimum health. Long, arduous days in Middle East Timor East – issues of different time zones and keeping on Middle East top of all issues in all zones. Improving sleeping World Time Zones patterns and maintaining focus and routines. 22.00- Arrived in Tampa in early October and deployed to Middle East deployment 24.00 Middle East in early December 2001. National Kuwait headquarters in Kuwait with naval ships in the Gulf. National Commander Describes locations of forces in the Middle East. Had Diplomacy difficulty securing a base in the Middle East. Diplomacy played significant role. 24.00- Visited Afghanistan and other countries in Middle East; Promotion to Major General 27.45 arrived home in April 2002; on leave until end of July. Head of Strategic Operations Promoted to Major General and Head of Strategic Canberra Operations. Settled back into home in Canberra. Pentagon Meeting, Relates 50th birthday story and being sent Washington DC to Pentagon for urgent meeting on Iraq. Recalls other promotions. 27.45- Talks about Americans and Iraq war planning. Iraq War 32.10 Pentagon meeting confirmed what he already knew. General Had worked for 12 months with the Americans and Department of Finance and was accepted. Was the Defence representative at Trade (DFAT) inter-departmental meetings with DFAT (Department Land Commander of Finance and Trade), etc. Land Commander at end of Vice Chief of Defence Force

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2003 – responsible for training troops and then Vice Engineering and Military Chief of Defence Force. Explains putting previous Command lessons learned into place in senior managerial roles. Talks about the relationship between engineering and undertaking senior command roles in the military. Complex project management issues, similar to building and construction. Many army chiefs have also been engineers. 32.10- Pentagon meeting in Washington, then Tampa. Pentagon Meeting, 35.00 Explains the reality of the Iraq War commitment and Washington DC discussions with the Prime Minister, John Howard. Tampa, Florida John Howard, Prime Minister 35.00- Role in Canberra during Iraq War. Describes influence Iraq War 39.30 with Americans. Long days from 4:30am to 11:00pm – Tal Afar, Iraq keeping everyone in touch and informed. Relates story Soccer team about Iraqi soccer supporters in Tal Afar. 39.30- Issues of health and dehydration where temperatures Heat and Dehydration 43.55 can reach 60°celsius. Living conditions and locations in Baghdad, Iraq Baghdad, Iraq including Saddam Hussein’s palace and Saddam Hussein’s Palace its opulence. NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Dutch coalition forces, NATO partners; constantly Organisation) travelling at that time in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well Netherlands as flying from between Australia and Europe without International Meetings stopping overnight in a hotel. 43.55- Why Australians make good coalition partners. Coalition Partnerships 49.40 Intentions and reasons differ, but Australians “willing American Australian alliance to get their hands dirty”; Australians are a trusted ally for Americans, explains why. Comments on Americans, respect for them and their commitments; also comments on differences between Australians and New Zealanders. 49.40- Comments on whether his position as a multi-national Multi-National and National 50.40 and national commander is unique. Command Positions End of CD 4 CD5 = 60 minutes 0.00-1.25 Continues with comments whether his position as a Multi-National and National multi-national and national commander is unique. Command Positions

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What is unique “only person ever to start as a soldier Chief of Army and become the chief of army in our 110 years” 1.25-7.00 Deployed forces to Solomon Islands as Chief of Joint Solomon Islands Operations. Keeping a positive work force. Chief of Army Restructuring and fine-tuning the military. Giving Job Satisfaction people “a voice”. Accountability Frustration when blemishes are portrayed for an Skype Scandal issue ‘exemplar’ organisation. Explains issues around the AAP website commentary recent Skype scandal and the media response. 7.00- Introduction of Facebook and social media for the Facebook 14.35 Army including ‘contact the chief’ communications. Social Media Awareness that the “boss is actually listening”. ‘Contact the Chief’ Describes open talk sessions in Afghanistan and Afghanistan speaking about problems and solutions. Calls for new Military and Fashion ‘kit’ – talks about military and fashion (brands). 14.35- Describes Vice Chief and Chief of Joint Operations role Vice Chief of Defence 21.00 (from July 2005, promoted to Lieutenant General) = Angus two full time jobs. Able to convince Minister and Chief Houston of Defence, to split the roles and David General Hurley made first standalone Chief of Joint Operations. Chief of Joint Operations Talks about responsibilities and tasks, including health, Occupational Health & logistics, education processes. Issues around Safety Occupational Health & Safety. Resolved issues of Military Parachuting parachuting with ComCare. ComCare

21.00- Appointed to Chief of Army (July 2008) – describes Chief of Army 25.30 process including considering leaving the army at that Lieutenant General Peter stage. Arrived as Chief with a restructure plan Leahy approved by the Chief of Defence and the Minister. Talks about achieving this position and pathways getting there. 25.30- Explains Army inherited and restructuring plans. Chief of Army 32.05 Training and Land Command to be “pushed together”. Army Restructuring Changed Army Headquarters structure. Concerned Military Training about de-skilling and rectified this situation. Compares Engineering “military art” to engineering, medicine, etc. as highly Fundamental War Fighting skilled professionals. Comparison between engineering and military. Each requires technical underpinnings

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and basic fundamentals. 32.05- Talks about engineering courses and degrees awarded 35.00 today (ADFA). Suggests a return to a basic engineering Academy (ADFA) degree followed by specialist training afterwards. Basic Engineering Interaction with students. United Services Institute 35.00- Describes the timing and success of the reforms and Army Restructuring 39.50 achievements during the restructuring process. Lieutenant General David Planning for next era of reform taken over by Morrison, next Chief of Army. Describes what is Mission Command Mission Command and issues of problem solving. Achievements Cultural Change Adaptive Army 39.50- Talks about failures: failed to convince the Failures 42.50 Government to proceed with further restructuring: Government and Policies “army about 1800 people hollow” – provided solution, Defence White Paper not enacted upon. Working with the Defence White Paper – “Government’s blueprint for the structure and conduct of Defence over a period of time”. 42.50- Dealing with death, war, destruction, famine, etc. = Deaths and Dying 45.00 “hardest part as Chief were the 23 who were killed on Illness operations”; but also others lost to road accidents, Accidents and Suicides suicide and ill health. Effects and trauma for families – Family Support working through what is important. Meeting families of soldiers, talking with families, attending funerals. Describes funeral in Tasmania and contact with soldier’s mother. 45.00- Responds to “what kept you gong”? Belief in people, Army and Democracy 48.50 the Army’s role. Comments on what the Army is and its Humanitarianism position within Australian democracy. Proud of being the Chief of Army and its achievements and changes over 40 years. 51.15- Responds to quote: “leadership is inclusive and Leadership 53.15 motivates people willing to give 110% effort and Mateship loyalty” (Gillespie). Sharing ideals; mateship; helps to achieve “beyond your mass”. 53.15- Visiting overseas Australian military historical and Kapyong, Korea 56.30 sacred sites – comments on these experiences as a Veterans “learning experience”; spiritual; new understandings. Marlena and Mike Jefferys Tells story about the reburial of the five soldiers in (Gov-Gen) Belgium – wattle, blue butterfly and rain. Belgium (Buttes Cemetery)

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56.30- Visiting Gallipoli; Fromelles war cemetery – describes Gallipoli, Turkey 60.00 this battlefield during World War I and the re- Fromelles, France internment of bodies. Story about two brothers and Terendak, Malaysia the Commanding Officer. Using DNA for identification. Ceremony held. Visiting Terendak in Malaysia. End of CD 5

CD6 = 24 minutes 0.00-4.15 Returning to Afghanistan – seeing the progress over Afghanistan time. Education of women and children – female Kaboul, Afghanistan politicians. Iraq Hope for a peaceful Afghanistan. Describes the majesty of Afghanistan and its surrounding mountains. Australian troops have been in Afghanistan, Iraq and Middle East over many years, including from World War I. 4.15-6.25 Engineering profession – not a member of the Engineering Profession Institution (Engineers Australia); engineering Engineers Australia ethics/technical aspects. 6.25- Views on engineering and its heritage. Describes some Engineering Heritage 10.40 of the heritage buildings lived in: Victoria Barracks, at Victoria Barracks, Sydney Duntroon; and structures such as bridges. Impressions Duntroon, Canberra of John Monash. John Monash 10.40- Career and life mentors – including his father and Mentors 14.40 mother. Reminisces about the course of his career. Family 14.40- Comments on how engineering can help to make the Young Engineers 16.10 world a better place, especially considering the young engineer today. 16.10- Hobbies and sports – golf; returning to reading; doing Hobbies and Sports 18.35 Sudoku. Writing memoirs, mainly for family Reading 18.35- Talks about retirement – White Ribbon Foundation Retirement 20.15 board; interested in strategy boards and using White Ribbon Foundation knowledge gained strategically. 20.15- Awarded the Companion in the Order of Australia (AC) Companion – Order of 24.00 Final comments on career, with satisfaction; privilege Australia working with young Australians. Hopes for daughter, Final comments on Career Moira, and her future happiness. Moira Gillespie End of CD End of Interview

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6

Biographical Notes

Prepared by Dr Margaret Park from the oral history interview conducted on 6 September 2011 for the Engineering Heritage Canberra, from ’s CV and work history. 12 September 2011.

Birth & Family: Born 28 June 1952, Brisbane, Queensland Ken grew up on a farm on the New South Wales/Queensland border. His father and mother both came from this area but lived in Brisbane when Ken was born. Their farm at Acacia Creek at Killarney, Queensland was a life forming experience for Ken and his family. After seasons of drought the Gillespies moved to a sawmill settlement at Central Koreelah in northern NSW. After his father sustained an injury they returned to Killarney and then back to Brisbane. When Ken joined the Army at age 15, his parents had moved to Toowoomba and ran a service station until their retirement; they now live on Bribie Island.

Education: Attended several primary schools, including Mountain View State School, a one teacher school where three generations of Gillespies were taught by the same teacher. Ken also attended another small, one teacher school before finishing his schooling years at Inala West State School and Inala State High School in Brisbane. It was during his last year at high school, where he enjoyed his education and sporting activities, when he was accepted for the Army Apprentices School at Balcombe, Victoria. Ken’s long-term dream to join the army came to fruition.

Qualifications: Army Apprentices School, Balcombe, Victoria Officer Cadet School, Portsea, Victoria (graduated 2nd Lieutenant, Royal Australian Engineers Corps) Army Command and Staff College, Queenscliff, Victoria Joint Service Staff College, Weston, ACT Royal College of Defence Studies, London, UK Awards: Conspicuous Service Medal, 8 June 1992, for conspicuous service with Contingent, United Nations Transition Assistance Group, Namibia. AM, Member of the Order of Australia, 8 June 1998, for exceptional service to the Australian Army and the Australian Defence Force, particularly in the development of the Australian Theatre Joint Intelligence Centre.

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Distinguished Service Cross, 10 June 2002, for distinguished command and leadership as the Commander Sector West, while deployed on active service with the United Nations Transitional Administration East Timor during Operation. AO, Office of the Order of Australia, 26 January 2003, for distinguished service to the Australian Defence Force as the Commander Australian Contingent, Operation SLIPPER in the Middle East between October 2001 and March 2002. Legion of Merit (Commander), 2009, USA. Meritorious Service Medal (Military – Pingat Jasa Gemilang), 2010, Republic of Singapore. AC, Companion of the Order of Australia, 26 January 2011, for eminent service to the Australian Defence Force as Vice Chief of the Defence Force/Chief of Joint Operations and Chief of Army.

Career:

1968 – 1971: Ken began his army career as an apprentice bricklayer at the Army Apprentices School at Balcombe, Victoria. This three year course provided him with the beginnings of a solid army background, as well as trade skills in accordance with the Victorian Technical Leaving Certificate. His apprenticeship included a one year civil attachment in Sydney.

1972 – 1974: Ken was selected to undertake his officer training in 1972. He attended the Officer Cadet School at Portsea, Victoria graduating as 2nd Lieutenant into the Corps of the Royal Australian Engineers (RAE) on 15 December 1972. After initial RAE officer training Ken then experienced troop command at the School of Military Engineering in 1973-74.

1975 – 1979: Extending his engineering and military experience, Ken was posted as a recruit platoon commander to the 1st Recruit Training Battalion at Kapooka, NSW in 1975, closely followed by an appointment to the 2nd Field Engineer Regiment stationed in Brisbane. Promotions came quickly for Ken, from Lieutenant to Captain in the same year. With promotion came responsibility and he was second-in-command of the Field and Support Squardron from 1976 to 1978. Then in 1979 he was posted to the 5th Field Engineer Regiment in Brisbane as Adjutant.

1980 – 1985: In 1980 Ken returned to the Army Apprentices School as the Works Officer and then appointed as the Commander of an Apprentice Company. Serving at his ‘alma mater’ for two years, in 1982 he was posted to the 1st Construction Regiment at Holsworthy, Sydney as Adjutant. Promoted to Major in 1983, Ken returned to Brisbane as the Operations Officer of the 2nd/3rd Field Engineer Regiment. In 1985 Ken was a student again, this time at the Army Command and Staff College at Queenscliff, Victoria.

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1986 – 1990: Keen to receive an overseas posting at this stage in his career, in 1986 Ken accepted a posting as the Australian Exchange Instructor at the Royal School of Military Engineering at Chatham, Kent, UK. His work there was challenging and rewarding and when he returned to Australia in early 1988 he was given the role of Senior Instructor at the School of Military Engineering. Many overseas postings followed, including being deployed to be second-in-command of the Australian contingent to the United Nations in Namibia in August 1989. Ken was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel at this time. Returning to Australia in March 1990 Ken was appointed to the RAE Corps Directorate in Sydney.

1991 – 1997: For the first six months of 1991 Ken attended the Joint Services Staff College at Weston, Canberra. Returning to Sydney following this course he was the Project Officer at Land Headquarters in Sydney. His next challenge was to raise and command the 3rd Combat Engineer Regiment based in Townsville from March 1992. Canberra beckoned in September 1994 and Ken accepted a posting as the Staff Officer Operations to the Chief of the Defence Force. In June 1995 he was promoted to Colonel and posted to Sydney to raise and command the Australian Theatre Joint Intelligence Centre, a new and innovative intelligence gathering organisation.

1997 – 2001: Ken returned to London at the end of December 1997 to attend the Royal College of Defence Studies. Back home in Australia for 1999 and promoted to Brigadier, he was appointed as Chief of Staff of Training Command. In September 2000 Ken was placed in command of the United Nations Sector West multi-national brigade in East Timor. He returned to Australia in July 2001 and worked at Army Headquarters in Canberra. Not long after the terrorist’s attacks on the United States in September 2001, Ken was deployed to the United States, then the Middle East as the National Commander of Australia’s contribution to the ‘Coalition of the Willing’s’ Operation Enduring Freedom.

2002 – 2005: Promoted to Major General in June 2002, Ken was appointed as the Head of Strategic Operations – a key strategy and policy position advising the Chief of the Defence Force. In January 2004 he returned to Sydney as the Land Commander Australia. In this role Ken was responsible for ensuring the Australian Army was combat ready.

2005 – 2008: In July 2005 Ken was promoted to Lieutenant General and appointed as the Vice Chief of the Defence Force as well as the Chief of Joint Operations. As Vice Chief, he was responsible for all Australian Defence Force (ADF) operations, overseas and at home. His dual role was complex and demanding. During his time as Vice Chief he successfully convinced the ADF that he was effectively responsible for two full-time jobs and the first standalone Chief of Joint Operations was appointed.

2008 – present: Considering his future in the Army and not likely to seek an extension of his term as Vice Chief, Ken was offered and accepted the role of Chief of the Australian Army in July 2008. Taking on this senior appointment, at the pinnacle of his army career, Ken sought and received high command support for initiating structural and cultural change within the organisation. Upon reaching his 59th birthday in June 2011, Ken retired from the Army and is currently taking time out, golfing and reading, and relaxing at home in Canberra with his family whilst contemplating his future endeavours.

HMSS 0269 Engineering Heritage Queanbeyan Age Oral History Project http://www.library.act.gov.au/find/history/search/Manuscript_Collections/professional_career_series

Libraries ACT I Ph: 6205 9000 I Website: www.library.act.gov.au

HMSS 0269 Engineering Heritage Queanbeyan Age Oral History Project http://www.library.act.gov.au/find/history/search/Manuscript_Collections/professional_career_series

Libraries ACT I Ph: 6205 9000 I Website: www.library.act.gov.au