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Home , David Stubbs, Public enemy, Steve Beresford, Thurston Moore

ELECTRONIC SOUND

THE MAGAZINE ISSUE 52 £5.99 a new kind of musique concrète

FROM TAPE LOOPS TO TURNTABLES AND BACK AGAIN BACK AND

HEAVEN 17 - S PA R K S - T H E C I N E M AT I C O R C H E S T R A - T H U R S T O N M O O R E - M O O G F E S T - C A RT E R U S M NICE ’N’ SPLICY Sonic Adult

Since moving to at the beginning of the decade, Thurston Moore has found himself at the forefront of east London’s scene. From Luc Ferrari to Public Enemy, we enjoy a free-ranging chat Words: David Stubbs 56 57 Thurston Moore think Luc Ferrari liked all musics,” says Thurston Moore. “It’s like when a journalist interviewed Thelonious Monk once and he said, ‘I like all musics “I equally’. And the journalist refused to take that as an answer. But he meant it. Ferrari came out of studying Honegger, Messiaen, Varèse, but we included in the book an interview he did with a French jazz magazine, which we came across late into our editing. His perceptions about jazz in relation to his own sound world were fascinating. I went through his archive of records,

BRUNHILD FERRARI - PHOTO BY FABIO LUGARO and there was a lot of contemporary underground rock music, he was curious about this stuff.” Moore and I are at east London’s Cafe Oto, in the middle of the Stereo Spasms festival, an eight-day programme of events dedicated to the work of the late French musique concrète composer Luc Ferrari. Among those taking part in performances to mark the 90th anniversary of his birth are experimental luminaries such as , David Grubbs, Scanner, Steve Beresford, Tania Chen, eRikm and Jon Leidecker, aka electronica artist Wobbly, who also joins us for our conversation. Much of Ferrari’s work presents a fascinating challenge for the players, given the latitude they are allowed by the composer. For a performance of ‘Et Tournent Les Sons Dans La Garrigue’ (’And Turn The Sounds In The Scrubland’, 1977), says Leidecker, “the directions given to the instrumentalists are almost nothing, just a series of poetic words: THURSTON MOORE AND ERIKM - PHOTO: ROBIN RIMBAUD pause, ripple, refection, tension, orgasm, recession. Yet there is a 25-minute pre-recorded tape that contains all of the tonal centre of the piece, and so the musicians are going to respond to that.” Thurston Moore, who also plays in the festival, performing one of Ferrari’s fnal pieces, ‘Les Protorhythmiques’ along with eRikm, is here to launch ‘Luc Ferrari – Complete Works’. Edited by Ferrari’s widow Brunhild, the book is a collection of English translations of the composer’s writings, correspondence, interview scores and other such “musica materia”. It reveals the full extent of his activities that took in not just music, but poetry, theatre, radio and visual art. Published on his Ecstatic Peace Library imprint, Moore provides the book’s foreword, in which he pinpoints the importance of Ferrari as a musique concrète composer who escaped the dogmatic confnes of the THURSTON, ERIKM, SCANNER & BRUNHILD - PHOTO: EVA PRINZ studios/institutions in which it was born, personifed by his early mentor Pierre Schaeffer. “You look at pictures of Ferrari in the 60s, he’s a hip dude,” says Moore. “Schaeffer’s not a hip dude.” In his foreword, Moore explains that using handheld mobile technology, Ferrari would go out “into the feld, to document a planet rife with change, emotional and political, giving voice and value to the sound worlds of the disenfranchised”. Such were his radical explorations, writes Moore, that “much of psychedelic, avant-garde and , , jazz and contemporary classical music has bestowed continual adulation to Luc Ferrari”. For some in France, such as eRikm, excitement at the attention garnered by Ferrari’s work is tinged with dismay that Stereo Spasms is not taking place in his native land. THURSTON AND BRUNHILD - PHOTO: EVA PRINZ “He said, ‘Why am I coming to London to play Luc Ferrari of France? Why isn’t there the possibility of doing it here? I should be doing this in , Marseilles’,” says Moore. “But the premise of the book was to do an English language version of what has previously been en français – to translate what are lovely existing texts into English. And there’s such a wealth, his poetry, his collage art.”

Moore’s own route to indisputable hipdom began in his dreams while growing up in Connecticut. He longed for, and eventually sought out, the action in the urban centre of New York, far away from the rural Americana of his home environment. For him it was , not Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. In 1976, lured by the likes of and the as well as the critics such as Lester Bangs who feted them, PHOTO: ROBIN RIMBAUD he moved to New York. This Is Not event, or presenting his own work Galaxies, for for Galaxies, work own his presenting or event, Heat This Not Is This , he can be counted as an “honorary” electronic musician, musician, electronic “honorary” an as counted be can he Hendrix, Jimi hear we slowly, very crescendoing, was it as And piece. Tenney James And they snoozed at us, they were bored by us. It was only then I realised Irealised then only was It us. by bored were they us, at snoozed they And collectively, the group decided that would be way, way too on the nose nose the on too way way, be would that decided group the collectively, the released they 1999 in that was it so And music. contemporary citing as a further example the tabletop players Keith Rowe, playing on on playing Rowe, Keith players tabletop the example afurther as citing Traditionally, warfare. fretboard than rather elds f sound with concerned noise. organised but counted, So what we were doing must have seemed like Dixieland at an avant- an at Dixieland like seemed have must doing were we what So Oliveros, , Cornelius Cardew and Steve Reich anew. It’s an an It’s anew. Reich Steve and Cardew Cornelius Cage, John Oliveros, and was their due. their was and Pauline Wolff, Christian by compostions render they electronics, and rock of palette ahybrid using which, in Century’, 20th ‘Goodbye album about the conceptual approach, the organisation of sound. Moore has has Moore sound. of organisation the approach, conceptual the about of displays gendered say would some ostentatious, virtuosity, about events countless played has He ensemble. 12-string experimental craved, they that NME the in acclaim critical the achieving eventually that rock wasn’t It Pistols. Sex The with was he as Stockhausen and Having longed for New York, Moore developed a yearning Anglophilia Anglophilia ayearning developed Moore York, New for longed Having Holiday wanted to sound like Lester Young’s tenor sax. I love making my my making Ilove sax. tenor Young’s Lester like sound to wanted Holiday garde jazz festival.” festival.” jazz garde involved.” be to going guitar work in the context of electronic music, using the electronics of it.” it.” of electronics the using music, electronic of context the in work guitar rst trips to London with the group in the early 80s, playing everywhere everywhere playing 80s, early the in group the with London to trips rst f of the avant-garde, constantly busy, whether playing at the Barbican’s Barbican’s the at playing whether busy, constantly avant-garde, the of stations, being thrown offstage in New Cross for playing too long, before before long, too playing for Cross New in offstage thrown being stations, was who about arguments erce f had we incredible, was “It Moore. says beguilingly austere images of groups like Wire. He recalls fondly his his fondly recalls He Wire. like groups of images austere beguilingly physical wrangling, sometimes hidebound by ritual cliches; the other is is other the cliches; ritual by hidebound sometimes wrangling, physical is One on. catching never synthesiser guitar the for accounts perhaps unmatched piece of work that the passage of time has done nothing nothing done has time of passage the that work of piece unmatched Following the demise of and the break up of his marriage marriage his of up break the and Youth Sonic of demise the Following he wanted his guitar to sound like Pharoah Sanders’ saxophone, Billie Billie saxophone, Sanders’ Pharoah like sound to guitar his wanted he say to used Sharrock “Sonny akeyboard. were it if as instrument his appeal. ce f of box their by matched always isn’t which He Gustafsson. Mats and Parker Evan Russell, John improvisers free railway at sleeping Branca, Glenn with concerts to squats”, “punk from IT!’. WITH ON GET ON, ‘COME shout, someone audience the from a during was it Ithink heckled. got we where place only the was which Bank, South the played We Europe. in did only we which toured, we Youth. Sonic for found a way of reconciling these differences. these reconciling of away found rst or last, respectful of the calibre of his fellow artists, artists, fellow his of calibre the of respectful last, or rst f on going not insists on equal billing with lesser-known names, and makes a point of of apoint makes and names, lesser-known with billing equal on insists to Schmidt Irmin Can’s from everyone alongside Europe and UK the in the and press music British the by inspired days, early Youth’s Sonic in most musically happening quarter of the capital, where he lives today. today. lives he where capital, the of quarter happening musically most to in 2011, Thurston Moore relocated to east London, the the London, east to relocated Moore Thurston 2011, in Gordon Kim to players. electronic contemporary of alot alongside playing were we that wither. to and classical century 20th with abridge build to equipped best the the guitar and electronics have been at odds with each other, which which other, each with odds at been have electronics and guitar the Suicide Ra, Sun with familiar as was he 1981, in formed Youth Sonic time “Then we played Sonar where I thought we would go down a storm. astorm. down go would we Ithought where Sonar played we “Then then –and studio our into came Wolff Christian like people “Instead it,” approach would we how considered and that about thought “We “I like using the guitar as an electronic music instrument,” says Moore, Moore, says instrument,” music electronic an as guitar the using like “I Since moving to London, Moore has been, as it were, at the vanguard vanguard the at were, it as been, has Moore London, to moving Since Such is the scope of his work that, despite being a guitarist, like like aguitarist, being despite that, work his of scope the is Such Of all the post-punk rock ’n’ roll noiseniks, Sonic Youth were always always were Youth Sonic noiseniks, roll ’n’ rock post-punk the all Of His love of extremism drew him into the electronic realm, but by the the by but realm, electronic the into him drew extremism of love His y considered but then, then, but y considered f brie was Young Monte La pioneer Drone

Valentine’s Debbie Googe, saw him in more regular rock mode, which which mode, rock regular more in him saw Googe, Debbie Valentine’s conversation between traditional guitar playing in rock ’n’ and the roll playing guitar traditional between conversation cool was to be underground, it was to be part of a popular format – but but – format popular a of part be to was it underground, be to was cool Some people who play like that use lots of pedals, but me, I don’t want want don’t I me, but pedals, of lots use that like play who people Some and Oren Ambarchi, to play works by the American composer Alvin Alvin composer American the by works play to Ambarchi, Oren and Consciousness’, Roll ’n’ ‘Rock Group, Moore Thurston the with album with like It’s recording. were they when around people of lot a always enduring love of “drones, wonderful drones”. enduring love wonderful of “drones, Tilbury John including also Orchestra, Present Ever the ensemble, TV, watching eating, there, in everyone have They’d embarrassing. and pop contemporary in commonplace still are methods collage and electric guitar into someone’s pieces, well, it’s a challenge, but I don’t don’t I but challenge, a it’s well, pieces, someone’s into guitar electric Conservatory in , and a writing course in Colorado. Colorado. in course writing a and Copenhagen, in Conservatory guitar as an electronic music machine. I want to create sounds, noises. noises. sounds, create to want I machine. music electronic an as guitar Moore’s upcoming schedule is typically mixed. His most recent recent most His mixed. typically is schedule upcoming Moore’s D Chuck is it on of the headphones, writing.” middle the in and visiting, there was Cube Ice – yelling of the visual through subtly treated audio recordings, like postcards from from postcards like recordings, audio treated subtly through visual the of Works sorts. of avoyeur him made recordings eld f Ferrari’s asense, In an present to me For composition. the of structures the to regard of between scores his in dialogue a “There’s says, Moore Ferrari, of Lucier. Lucier will also be performing a live version of his best-known best-known his of version live a performing be also will Lucier Lucier. See ecstaticpeacelibrary.net for details for ecstaticpeacelibrary.net See Luc when he’s going around with headphones and mic and he’s at at he’s and mic and headphones with around going he’s when Luc singing, we’d always want to seclude ourselves a bit, because it’s it’s because bit, a ourselves seclude to want always we’d singing, Complete Works’ is published by Ecstatic Peace Library. Library. Peace Ecstatic by published is Works’ Complete street photographers like Henri Cartier-Bresson, offering a vivid sense sense avivid offering Cartier-Bresson, Henri like photographers street of equivalent the quite) not (if almost are Anecdotiques’ ‘Les as such says Moore. “I used to have these conversations with Public Enemy Enemy Public with conversations these have to used “I Moore. says beside him, looking at this gear. He wonders what he’s doing there, if if there, doing he’s what wonders He gear. this at looking him, beside sense a also but liberating, once at is which composer, and performer R&B today. today. R&B underlying seriousness, which makes him a good point of entry for for entry of point good a him makes which seriousness, underlying he’s eavesdropping; and he says, ‘Oh don’t worry about me, it’s the the it’s me, about worry don’t ‘Oh says, he and eavesdropping; he’s when times doubtless were there Cartier-Bresson, like And, travels. his with each successive playback. It’s of a piece with Moore’s abiding and and abiding Moore’s with piece a of It’s playback. successive each away fade with which words, original the of resonances the by dominated which text of piece a reads he which in Room’, A In Sitting Am ‘I work, Bloody My and Shelley Steve drummer Youth Sonic featuring succeeding by cool be to was agenda the culture, disenfranchised a for want to insult the piece.” who the person is rather than pure machine music.” were coming from this privileged cultural situation where for us to be be to us for where situation cultural privileged this from coming Youth were Sonic studio. the in them alongside recording were we when is recorded, then re-recorded sequentially, each version becoming becoming version each sequentially, re-recorded then recorded, is mainstream. the in For more, visit thurstonmoore.com. ‘Luc Ferrari – Ferrari ‘Luc thurstonmoore.com. visit more, For machines I’m trying to listen to’.”machines to listen I’m trying to promote that, as well as teaching music at the Rhythmic Music Music Rhythmic the at music teaching as well as that, continues promote He to for. enthusiasm or love his lost never has he thankfully the zoo,” says Moore. “And there’s an older gentleman, standing standing gentleman, older an there’s “And Moore. says zoo,” the disconcerting. been have must equipment handheld his with stranger this hear to want I keyboards, with music electronic Even pedals. hear to those wishing to dip into the waters of musique concrète. His sampling sampling His concrète. musique of waters the into dip to wishing those “There was a lot of with Public Enemy, there were were there Enemy, Public with groupthink of lot a was “There “There’s a great moment in one of the documentaries featuring featuring documentaries the of one in moment great a “There’s rst mainstream success for experimental music,” music,” experimental for success mainstream rst f the was hop “Hip There is a lightness about Ferrari, a pleasure, as well as an an as well as pleasure, a Ferrari, about lightness a is There At the time of writing, he’s just teamed up with an east London London east an with up teamed just he’s writing, of time the At As for the challenge of bringing the electric guitar to the work work the to guitar electric the bringing of challenge the for As Or, as Moore told me on a previous occasion, “to me it’s all about a about all it’s me “to occasion, previous a on me told Moore as Or,

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