74 GUITAR, MARCH 1984 well as co-producer of Rush's material. selves. If we ever do something on R ecently he produced an album for Boys a record that we can't possibly re­ B11gade. During Rush's unprecedented produce live without another person five night sold-out stint at New York's then we might consider hiring some­ Radio City Music Hall, Geddy took time body for a tour. But we're making out to talk to GUITAR about his career Alex do more on keyboards now, so and his music. he's sharing my load a bit, which is GUITAR: Boys Brigade reminds me helping out. Like on a couple of our somewhat of the current English old songs, Spirit of the Radio and New GEDDY LEE Is bands, although not quite as syn­ W orid Man, Alex is handling the thesizer saturated. Do you listen to sequencers. One Of The much of that music? GUITAR: It's great the way you go GEDDY: Yeah, I listen to a lot of the to the synth and Alex picks up on Reasons stuff coming out of England now. I the Taurus pedals and then on the Everything Is also like Talking Heads and occa­ first beat of the bar he plays the bass sionally I listen to some reggae, Bob notes on the pedals and on the Coming Up Marley and Third World in partic­ second beat you're back on the bass. ular. GEDDY: That's right. We work those Sevens These GUITAR: Has doing the Boys Bri­ things out. It's like one of those gade project affected your view of Busby Berkeley dance routines. It's Days For Rush Rush's direction? all choreographed pretty well. Some GEDDY: It's affected me as a musi­ of the new things that we're writing cian, because it's broadened my scope are also using sequencers and he's a bit. It's invariably going to affect doing them all now. I was doing it, what I do in Rush because whatever but now I have too many switches I am as a musician ends up becoming and I'm playing more keyboards, so a part of Rush. I don't know what splitting up the duties is helping form it'll take, because our band is quite a bit. a lot like a sponge. Things we get GUITAR: But you'll find other things into and listen to we sort of soak up to do. and end up spewing out in our GEDDY: That's a problem. Every time music. I don't think we'll be doing I figure, well, I'll just be able to play all short dance tunes or anything. the bass on this, someone says GUITAR: We are confronted daily wouldn't it be nice if we had this or with a barrage of new technology. that going on? I think, yeah, that's Synthesizers, sequencers, electronic true. You can't say no, because you drums, and so on. You are using know as soon as you start figuring more of it than you used to. How out another part it's going to sound do you feel about it? so much nicer. You're going to take GEDDY: I think you have to keep on the song further. And once you've top of what's happening. Music is done that, you can't go back. But I changing, and all the tools of our usually find one song on an album trade are changing so fast that you where inevitably the bass track will have to keep up with it. You've got be way too busy. It's way busier than byZevKatz to at least learn and be aware of it needs to be, because I'm venting what's out there and decide whether all my frustrations on one track where n the age of MTV, where pretty you can apply it to what you're I'm only on bass and I can go nuts. faces and good moves are all­ doing. Maybe you can't and that's It's one of those obnoxious bass lines important, Rush stands out as a fine. But you owe it to yourself to that just won't shut up. band that doesn't take image more investigate the options. It would be GUITAR: On stage you're using _ seriously than music. Their career much easier for me to go out on three different basses; the Ricken­ has been characterized by a constant stage and just play bass all night, but backer, the Steinberger, and the striving to maintain their integrity. As a it wouldn't be better for our music Fender Jazz bass. What are the dif­ result, their music seems never to have and I wouldn't be learning as much ferences between them for you, and suffered at the hands of ignorant record as I am, doing it this way. why do you need all three? executives. Nor have they let their lis­ GUITAR: Have you ever consid­ GEDDY: The Rickenbacker is my teners control them. They have been much ered hiring a keyboard player for mainstay. I feel the most comforta­ mm'e concerned with musicianship and Rush so that you can just play the ble playing it. It has a particular innovation than rock star trappings. bass? sound that works with the Rush As a bassist, Geddy Lee is widely GEDDY: Well, we talk about having sound that was developed over a respected in rock circles, but he is really a keyboard player tour with us, but number of years. But as our music more than that. He is a keyboard player, I don't know if we'll ever do that. changes .... I guess where it really songwriter and a distinctive vocalist, as At present we'd rather do it our- started was when I found my Jazz Zev Kat z. is a studio and peiforming bass player MARCH 1984, GUITAR 75 in New York City. bass and realized that I could use it a good reason not to go anymore I you're not learning anything, you're in the context of the band, and it didn't go. But then in school I started applying what you've learned. Then still sounded right. It's such a lovely getting interested again. I started you're hungry and you say to your­ bass to play, and has such a different taking clarinet, then saxophone, then self, "How do I get to another step, tonality, that I found it refreshing drums, but I didn't really play any because I'm tired of playing these to use. Then last year somebody of them very well. T hen somebody patterns and working in the same came up to me with a Steinberger gave me a guitar. It was a beautiful blocks of music?" You want to fill in and said, "Here, try this." Now, I'm Hawaiian-looking guitar with palm those gaps on yo ur fingerboard that pretty closed-minded when it comes trees on it and I learned For Your seem like alien areas. So playing to basses, because there are so many Love, by the Yardbirds. And that was those scales was a big help in getting around and they all have so many it. I played that song thousands of me over the hump and expanding switches and buttons on them. I have times. Then, of course, because I my us~ ?f the neck. It helped me as enough choices in my life. I don't could play one song, me and a bunch a mUSICIan . want to have fourteen choices of of pals started a band. T hen our There is one point I'd like to make sounds on my bass. So I plugged in bass player quit and everybody said, though. It's that if you have a good this Steinberger and it just blew me "You play bass." I said, OK, and I ear, and you're a rock musician or away. It just felt so nice to play, and started playing the bass. if you're playing your own kind of I couldn't believe the sustain and GUITAR: Did you ever study on music, you don't have to feel bad the evenness of the notes all the way the guitar or bass, or did you teach for not knowing the language. In up and down the neck. Also, there yourself? time, and in your own way, you'll were no dead spots. It's just a great GEDDY: I just taught myself. I didn't probably learn it. But just because sounding bass, so I've been wanting really know what I was playing. It some guy went to Berklee doesn't to use it more. Live it's so practical really wasn't until a few years ago mean that you don't have as strong for me amidst all those keyboards. that I made any effort to learn the a sense of music as that person does, Since it has a shorter top of the language of what I was doing. I just because he went and learned guitar, I'm not banging into micro­ think when you work in a band, with the language through a school. It all phones or anything. So out of prac­ the same people for many years, you has to do with musicality. If a person ticality and a real appreciation of don't really have to know the lan­ is talented and has musicality he can the sound of the instrument I'm guage of it because you invent your make music with four notes. But if bringing it into more of the new own language. But a few years ago a person has no sense of music he stuff we're doing. My bass sound, I started working with other people can know every note on the neck probably for the first time in a few and I realized that when you know and he can still not create, he's just years, will change into more of a the language of music it's a lot easier reading. Steinberger sound. to get to a given point faster. I'm GUITAR: But would you agree that GUITAR: About technique, do you still very slow at it. I can't really read, if the person who is musical can play with a light touch, or do you but I can figure my way around learn the language and how to use really attack the strings? Or does it pretty well. it he's thereby increased his potential vary? GUITAR: How did you go about immeasurably? GEDDY: It varies. A lot of the time teaching yourself the language, once GEDDY: Oh yeah. A hundred per­ I play real hard, but I find I can you decided to learn it? cent. I'm not saying it's one or the play more fluidly when I lighten my GEDDY: Well, I first figured I'd bet­ other. I'm saying the important thing touch. I also use my nails a lot. I ter learn all of the notes on the bass. is musicality. It's just that when you always wanted to use a pick because I had a friend who made me up·a want to go out and communicate I like the twang, but I hate playing chart of all the modes. I'd go through with the big wide world of musicians with a pick because it feels so un­ the different scales; phrygian, lydian it really helps to know the language. natural to me. So I grew my nails and all the rest. It was interesting. I GUITAR: You have a much greater and I just use a bit of them to twang. used to listen to different jazz bass­ sense of space and of melody in your Most of the time I do hit pretty ists and I would go; "Wow, that blows playing than most rock bass players. hard, though. It depends on the me away. How do they think of Did that come from anywhere in song. We play a two hour show, so that?" But once I started going particular? as the set goes on I probably vary through these different scales and GEDDY: Primarily, I guess, from the my style five or six times. Sometimes modes it took a lot of the mystery influence of people like Chris Squire, I mute the string and pluck with my away. who I thought always had that. John nail. Like on N ew World Man, half GUITAR: Do you look at that as a Entwistle as well. It's also because I the song is muted and plucked with disappointment, or do you feel that sing. I think the two are always my nail. Then the other half I'll just having the knowledge you are now related. It was a bit difficult at first bash the hell out of it. open to do a lot more? for me to sing and play bass at the GUITAR: What was the first instru­ GEDDY: Well, both. I was disap­ same time. So I used to develop bass ment you played? pointed to learn that these people lines around my vocal lines to make GEDDY: I played piano when I was who I thought were so amazing were it easier for me to do both at the real young and, I think like most just mortals. You know, when you're same time. Then I realized I was kids, I had to go to piano lessons a musician you learn in stages. You getting a more melodic bass line out and I hated them. As soon as I found learn and you reach a plateau where of it. I think the space came out of

76 GU ITAR, MARCH 1984 somebody else, we'll apply it to our I think changing meters is a great hard rock. Hard rock is our me­ thing. Sometimes, if you apply them dium, and everything we learn we to the kind of music that I play, it try to bring into that. We always try can get a bit abstract. But if you use to keep the hard rock aspect of it them right, and in the right context, there because that's our first music. they're real effective. We're always But anything else that we can learn sort of looking for a place where it'll to help sophisticate that form of work. It's nice, and it's different. music, as far as our own sensibility GUITAR: Are there any songwri­ goes, that's really all we try to do. ters who you try to emulate? At the same time, in the last few GEDDY: There are so many. To me, years we've placed very strong em­ Peter Townshend is one of the great phasis on feel. It used to be all hard rock songwriters. He just writes technical. It was how many riffs we great songs. The most difficult thing could put together in odd time sig­ is to write a really great song. That's natures, one after the other. Our something I never really appreci­ songwriting was more like piecing ated until the last couple of years. I movements together, whereas now think the most important thing is we're more interested in writing good that if you find an idea for your songs, in the classic sense of the song, that the music and the lyrics word. both say the same thing. That's what GUITAR: Do yo u and Alex have it's supposed to be. Then you're any particular approach to song­ saying, "Yes, of course. There could writing? be no other music for this lyric." It's GEDDY: Not really. It changes all the such a difficult thing to achieve per­ time. Sometimes it's so easy and so fection in songwriting. That's why much fun and it just pops out. Other you go on and on and keep trying times it's like burning in hell. You to do it and keep changing. I know go in and say to yourself, "Today I a lot of our fans would much rather have to write something." Often what we were still playing twenty minute we do is try to just pick a starting songs with a lot of real complexities point. We keep a lot of jam tapes in them. I hope they appreciate that that we do, and if we find a good we just aren't interested in doing jam we just work with it to get \!i s that anymore. We're trying very hard going. Sometimes we end up in a to learn more about what we do and place that's miles away from where to perfect our craft, and you can't we started, but we get there. do that by staying in the same place. GUITAR: Almost all of your songs I know for myself, I listen to bands have at least one section that em­ that I like and I like them in a certain ploys odd or changing meters. Where period and want them to always stay did that influence come from? that band. Then they go on to some­ GEDDY: Originally it came from peo­ thing else and you resent it a little the drama of the early songs that ple like Genesis. They used to do bit. At the same time they have to we wrote. Big majestic chords and Apocalypse in 9/8. Then we started do that. They have to go on. We're big spaces. Drop that 'A' note, you hearing things from the odd fusion very much that way. We're a band know? Like a bomb dropping. band and we just got clued in to it. that wants to be around for a long GUITAR: There are times when the For a while all we did was think in time, and we look at our existence way you and Neil play together really odd meters- 5's and 7's. We just over the long run, so what we do on reminds me of rhythm sections like started experimenting and it was a this album isn't it and everything. It's Jeff Berlin and Bill Bruford, or great tool, because you'd figure out another stage we're going through Anthony Jackson and Steve Gadd. some rock riff and think how ab­ and another experiment, in a way. Did you spend much time listening stract it would sound to play it in Sometimes you just can't help what to those guys? seven. We fell in love with sevens. comes out. If you're writing hon­ GEDDY: Those are just two pairs It's very hard to find a Rush album estly, and it's an honest expression, we 've listened to. There are so many that doesn't have sevens on it. They're you sit down to write and it comes great things being done. Our music all over the place, but why not? Most out. This guy may not like it, and is a little perverse in that it's rock rock albums are in four, so why not in two months you may not like it music, and it's hard rock music, but use sevens? Over the years you learn yourself, but that's the way you felt we try to bring all these things into how to play real smooth in seven. at the time, that's the thing that came it. If we've learned something about We're working on something right out, and that was your honest ex­ a style of playing, or if we got into now that's in 9/8. We found a pattern pression at the time. It's important playing in whatever time signature that really feels nice, so we're going to keep that, otherwise it gets pretty and picked up something from to use it. contrived .•

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