Tuesday Volume 506 2 March 2010 No. 48

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 2 March 2010

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UK. The hon. Gentleman is right that we need to House of Commons ensure that the most vulnerable members of society are fully protected throughout the EU, especially in parts Tuesday 2 March 2010 that sometimes have much more dramatic energy needs than we do, particularly in winter. The third internal market package makes specific provision for that. The House met at half-past Two o’clock Yemen PRAYERS 2. Liz Blackman (Erewash) (Lab): What recent assessment he has made of the political situation in [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] Yemen; and if he will make a statement. [319383]

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Oral Answers to Questions Affairs (David Miliband): The recent ceasefire in northern Yemen offers hope for a longer-term, political settlement between the rebels and the Government. However, tensions continue to run high in the south. Yemen also faces a FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE growing terrorist threat. The London meeting of 27 January galvanised international support for the Government of The Secretary of State was asked— Yemen’s reform efforts, which are essential to address Yemen’s challenges and ensure its long-term stability. Energy Security Liz Blackman: I thank my right hon. Friend for that 1. Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): What recent answer. Can he tell the House the outcome of the Gulf discussions he has had in the General Affairs Council Co-operation Council meeting held in Riyadh last month? on measures to improve UK energy security. [319382] Can he elucidate the current position on Yemen? The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): There have David Miliband: My hon. Friend makes an important been regular discussions of energy security at a wide point. One of the key outcomes of the Friends of range of Council meetings, both formally and informally. Yemenmeeting in London was that the Gulf Co-operation We wholeheartedly support a robust united European Council should play a more proactive role in helping position on energy security and a liberalised energy market. economic and other development in Yemen. At the meeting in Riyadh on 27 and 28 February there was Nia Griffith: Has my hon. Friend given any thought agreement not only to a more intensive process of GCC to having discussions with his European counterparts engagement with Yemen for the first time, but to bring about the development of a European super-grid, which forward the aid flows that were promised in the 2006 would enable us to transfer excess energy from one London conference, which in 90 per cent. or so of cases country to another and thus to make better use of have not yet been delivered. renewables and to use less carbon-producing fuels? Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): Before Chris Bryant: My hon. Friend has laid out all the key the usual suspects send foreign troops blundering into a issues that we need to address in bringing forward a fourth Islamic country, will the Foreign Secretary draw united position on energy security throughout Europe. their attention to the fact that the northern frontier of The third internal market package, which was brought the Yemen is only 360 miles from Mecca, that the two together last year, lays out a series of ways in which main land routes for pilgrims on the Hajj cross its different regulatory authorities can co-operate and ensures territory, that thousands of Yemenis fought against the that there is some funding available to enable greater Russians in Afghanistan, and that very large numbers transfer of energy supplies from one country to another, of their offspring work in the oil states of the Gulf? and that will help, but in the end we must have a wholly liberalised energy market in the European Union, so David Miliband: I am very disappointed to have to that it is not rigged in its relationship to countries such agree with the hon. Gentleman. He has spoken with as Russia. characteristic force but uncharacteristic accuracy in Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) describing all the points. His warnings are well made. I (LD): Is there not concern that we have paid a high note his commitment in respect of the role that Yemenis price for being the first to liberalise, while the rest of play throughout this country, including in South Shields, Europe has not liberalised? It is important to have a the historic centre of the Yemeni population in Britain, level playing field. Given that Ofgem’s Project Discovery and I commend him for his views on the topic. report is beginning to suggest that we need to row back from the completely open market in this country, where Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) (Lab): I declare my interest are we in trying to equalise the playing field between the in welcoming the steps that have been taken so far, UK and the rest of Europe ? including the visit to Yemen by my hon. Friend the Minister of State and the lobbying of the GCC. Is it not Chris Bryant: We need to ensure that there is a level important that we now have a fresh initiative? Given the playing field so that British people can own energy strong personal relationship between the Secretary of companies in Germany, Spain and France, just as people State and Mrs. Clinton—I think that she last described from those countries can own energy countries in the him as “vibrant and attractive”—is it not appropriate 783 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 784 for a joint visit to be made to Yemen? The German warrants can be obtained is not acceptable. In this case, Foreign Minister has been there. I know that the Secretary leaders from a strategic partner and close friend of of State sent his Minister of State, but a joint initiative Britain have been prevented from entering the United between the United States and the UK could help the Kingdom. It could of course have the same impact on whole process. leaders of other strategic partners and friends of this country. We are seeking a satisfactory remedy that David Miliband: Needless to say I have thought of maintains the principle of universal jurisdiction but many places for a joint visit with the Secretary of State ends the unintended consequence whereby an arrest and I shall certainly bear in mind the attractions of warrant can be obtained by individuals in dubious Yemen. To be serious, the Yemeni Government have circumstances. taken some important measures since the 27 January meeting. For example, they have reduced fuel subsidies Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): by about 9 per cent., arrested a major alleged arms The Minister will be aware that the Foreign Affairs dealer, removed an allegedly corrupt governor and, of Committee recently visited the west bank. We were not course, broken the ceasefire with the Houthi rebels. We allowed to go to Gaza. We witnessed the creation of should support such initiatives and will do so through settlements that are causing physical apartheid and the sort of visit that my right hon. Friend suggested and depriving many Palestinians of access to their land and in any other way possible. therefore their livelihood. Exactly what pressure are the Government putting on the Israelis with regard to Israel-Egypt Frontier settlements?

3. Mrs. Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): What recent Mr. Lewis: First, we should applaud the improvements discussions he has had with the Government of Israel that have been made on the west bank in security and on its plans to build a border wall along Israel’s economic development as a result of the leadership of frontier with Egypt. [319384] President Abbas and Prime Minister Fayyad. We should also applaud the removal of some checkpoints by the The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Israeli Government. Having said that, settlements are Office (Mr. Ivan Lewis): We are in regular contact with both illegal and an obstacle to peace in the middle east. both the Egyptian and Israeli Governments regarding We have constantly called for a total freeze on those Gaza and related matters. We recognise Israel’s right to settlements. Prime Minister Netanyahu’s partial freeze protect its citizens from acts of violence but make it is an important movement but we believe that settlement clear at every opportunity that all measures must be in expansion is not acceptable in the context of the peace accordance with international law. negotiations that we hope are about to get under way. Mrs. McGuire: I am sure that my hon. Friend appreciates that the humanitarian situation in Gaza continues to Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): Is cause grave concern to many, certainly in my constituency. the Minister aware that the blockade of Gaza has I endorse his words about the security of Israel and already turned a coastal strip into a net importer of acknowledge that the capacity of Hamas to fire rockets fish—just one example of the damage being done to into Israel must be stopped, but I would like a reassurance Gazans and to their economy by the blockade? While from my hon. Friend that he is doing all he can to condemning all the rocket attacks launched from Gaza persuade Israel and, indeed, Egypt not to forget the into Israel, has the Minister conveyed to the Government people of Gaza who are suffering as a result of the of Israel that they should be ending the blockade of current situation. Gaza, not tightening it still further with the wall? Do the Government oppose the building of the wall? Mr. Lewis: The UK and the EU use every opportunity to call on Israel to remove all obstacles to humanitarian Mr. Lewis: I think that I have answered the question. assistance getting into Gaza. If we are to secure a I said clearly that the Government at every opportunity mainstream majority for peace, we need to enable Gazans make clear directly to Israel and in the context of to begin to rebuild their homes, public institutions and international institutions that all obstacles to humanitarian businesses. Equally, Hamas must stop rocket attacks assistance and the capacity of the Gazans to begin against Israel and should release Gilad Shalit without reconstruction should be removed. We equally make it preconditions. clear at every opportunity to Hamas that the rocket attacks must stop and that Gilad Shalit should be Mr. James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): The right released. hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs. McGuire) has just asked the Minister to discuss the issues regarding Gaza London G20 Summit with Israel and to persuade the Israeli Government, but how can we have proper discussions and a proper 4. Mr. Neil Turner (Wigan) (Lab): What assessment search for a peaceful solution with Israel when a leading he has made of the implications for his Department’s Israeli political figure is threatened with arrest with a policies of the outcomes of the London G20 summit. warrant issued by a British court under universal [319385] jurisdiction? What are the Government doing to clear away this effort to hamper the search for peace? The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): In essence, the G20 London summit showed that international Mr. Lewis: The hon. Gentleman raises an important economic crises require international remedies in the issue. We have made it clear, as have all parties in this form of clear and co-ordinated action in all the major House, that the principle of universal jurisdiction must economies. It is noticeable that not a single major be non-negotiable but that the means by which arrest economy currently believes in making savage cuts now. 785 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 786

Mr. Turner: Will the Minister expand on that, and tell retain the pound sterling? Why is it still Government us whether any countries had been planning for that, policy to consider joining the euro when recent events and if they were, whether they thought that that was only reinforce how mistaken that would be? fiscally responsible and their patriotic duty? Mr. Speaker: That question was very wide. I suggest Chris Bryant: My hon. Friend’s comments help to that the Minister be extremely discriminating in the way make the very good point that not a single major in which he replies. economy around the world is now proposing to make savage cuts. Indeed, all the major economies in the Chris Bryant: I congratulate the hon. Member for world, both within the European Union and elsewhere, Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) on his ingenuity and imagination. are talking about how they can make sure that they In trying to stay within the realms of a discussion of the maintain a level of fiscal stability by maintaining a G20 meeting, I should say that he knows perfectly well fiscal stimulus. I would just quote the words of President that Greece is not a member of the G20, and at the Obama. He said last April: moment I do not foresee any prospect of its joining “I think that this kind of co-ordination really is historic…I the G20. think that’s a testimony to the great work that Gordon Brown did…I’m very proud of what’s been done.” Sudan

Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): We will have 5. Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): What recent quite enough time for all these party political shenanigans, assessment he has made of the political situation in so will the Minister just focus on what needs to be done Sudan; and if he will make a statement. [319386] now? He knows that world trade dipped by 12 per cent. last year, which is an absolute disaster, and Pascal Lamy The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth has already said that he believes high unemployment Office (Mr. Ivan Lewis): This is a crucial year for Sudan, could lead to protectionism. The United States has got with elections due in April and the referendum on “buy American only” clauses in its stimulus package of self-determination for south Sudan in January 2011. We $780 billion, which is regrettable. Will the Minister use welcome the recent Darfur framework agreement and his good offices to promote, and help ensure, world free ceasefire. We urge all parties to work together to build a trade? peaceful future for Sudan, whatever the referendum result. Chris Bryant: The hon. Gentleman makes the very good point that it is important that nowhere in the Mark Durkan: The Minister will be aware that world resorts to protectionism in this case. That is why following that ceasefire agreement the President of the G20 summit last year was particularly successful. Sudan said Darfur is now at peace. Since then however, Some countries tried to advance significant protectionist the Sudanese military has attacked the Jebel Marra measures across the EU, and we were wholeheartedly region. What information does the Minister have on opposed to that. I should say, however, that this is not just that, including on civilian death and displacement, and about free trade; it is also about fair trade. That is why what representations are his Government making? we want reform of the common agricultural policy as well. Mr. Lewis: The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that Ms Patricia Hewitt (Leicester, West) (Lab): I thank issue, about which there is serious concern as it continues my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary for meeting to destabilise prospects for progress. Our information is members of the UK-India round table last Friday. Does that more than 300,000 people have been forced from my hon. Friend the Minister agree that the best way of their homes—more than double the number in 2008. recognising the rise of India and other new economies We have urged the Sudanese Government and the UN in the global economy would be to develop a strong mission to prioritise the protection of civilians and to permanent secretariat for the G20, and to locate it in support reconciliation. We will argue for that in discussing New Delhi? the renewal of the UN’s mandate in April. Chris Bryant: My right hon. Friend makes a good Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): The EUFOR Chad point about the need for a full-time secretariat for the mission in the region is key, and it is supported by more G20, because although there are those who adopt a than 2,000 French troops, 500 Irish troops, 400 Poles, rather little Englander attitude towards economic problems, 200 Swedes, 160 Austrians and many more. Some in this around the world there is generally a consensus that big House are very critical of other countries making small economic problems require big economic solutions. deployments to international operations, so could the That means much more action on an international Minister confirm whether only four UK service personnel basis. I would also say, however, that if Britain is to get are part of the mission? the best out of our relationship with India, we need to make sure that the whole of the EU plays a far more Mr. Lewis: It is rather a unique moment when the co-ordinated role in relation to India, and that requires Scottish National party calls for more British troops to action that the Conservative party always seems reluctant be deployed somewhere in the world—however, this is to take. no place for political knockabout, as the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) said. Let us be clear that Mr. Mark Francois (Rayleigh) (Con): The G20 discussed the UK contribution to the United Nations-African maintaining financial stability, which is an issue for Union Mission in Darfur has been more than £100 million. Britain and many other EU countries, not least Greece. In March 2009, the UK contributed a further £1.85 million Does not their fate show how wise we in Britain were to in discretionary funding for the training and equipping 787 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 788 of a Sierra Leone reconnaissance company to deploy to Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): Does my right hon. UNAMID, and we continue to explore all possibilities Friend agree that it is important that we continue to for further and effective UK support. The UK is doing support the Afghans in order to improve their Government’s more than its bit to contribute to the mission. capacity? We are still undertaking a similar process in Iraq, so does he welcome the forthcoming Iraqi elections Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East) (Lab): Will my as the next stage in that? hon. Friend comment on whether it is possible to strengthen the democratic process across Sudan and on how that is David Miliband: I certainly welcome the democratic emerging? advance in Iraq as well as in Afghanistan. I am sure that everyone will recognise the significant role that my right Mr. Lewis: My hon. Friend raises the crucial issue. hon. Friend has played in strengthening human rights The elections are scheduled for next month, and we in Iraq and the example that she has set for our work in have so far pledged £12.5 million towards them. That Afghanistan too. funding has been focused on technical preparations, Mr. Keith Simpson (Mid-Norfolk) (Con): Last month, civic education and conflict management. We hope that President Karzai signed a decree amending the electoral the process will be credible; the voter registration process law to allow him to choose all five members of the was conducted largely peacefully. The legal framework Electoral Complaints Commission and exclude the three for the elections has been approved with a level of non-Afghan members. Is the Foreign Secretary not consensus, so we hope that they will be another milestone concerned that the impartiality of the commission will on the way to stability in Sudan. now be called into question? It was very important, given the issues that it raised, at the previous elections. Afghanistan Should we not be bringing all pressure to bear on President Karzai, because this is what our troops are 6. Mr. Don Touhig (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): What fighting for—democracy in Afghanistan? recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of co-operation between Government Departments in the David Miliband: Yes, I am very concerned, to use the formulation of policy on Afghanistan. [319387] hon. Gentleman’s words, about the perception that might be raised about the impartiality of the Electoral The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Complaints Commission. The Electoral Complaints Affairs (David Miliband): The Prime Minister set out in Commission, which sits alongside the so-called independent April 2009 the Government’s strategy on Afghanistan Electoral Commission, played a critical role in rooting and Pakistan. It is a comprehensive approach that out fraud in the presidential elections. The best way of draws on the range of security, political and development making our views clear is to say the same thing in public levers in pursuit of our objectives and those of the as in private, which is that the people who are appointed international community as a whole. The test of effectiveness to the panel will be scrutinised very carefully. If they are is on the ground, and it is widely recognised that the not to be internationals, they need to be people of the co-operation in the civilian-military mission in Helmand, highest quality and integrity.I certainly hope that President which is led by the UK, is the best of its kind. Karzai chooses international representatives precisely to tackle the perception dangers raised by the hon. Mr. Touhig: At the London conference, my right hon. Gentleman. Friends the Secretaries of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs and for International Development Falkland Islands worked very hard to ensure that human rights, particularly women’s rights, were high on the agenda. Can the 8. Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): What recent Foreign Secretary tell us what progress has been made representations he has received on UK sovereignty over to ensure that human rights, and in particular women’s the Falkland Islands; and if he will make a statement. rights, are protected throughout Afghanistan? [319390] The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth David Miliband: My right hon. Friend makes a very Affairs (David Miliband): Argentina has made a number important point. The only basis for guaranteeing human of recent protests on this issue. The Government have rights is first, decent security, and secondly, the rule of made it clear that we have no doubt about the United law according to the Afghan constitution. That is why I Kingdom’s sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. The think that since the London conference the major effort principle of self-determination underlies that. There in Helmand province, including in Marjah, has been can be no negotiations on the sovereignty of the Falkland a significant step towards that goal. However, the Islands unless and until such a time as the Falkland strengthening of the constitutional framework at the islanders so wish it. They have made it clear that they national level remains a priority for the new Government. have no such wish. Mr. Mark Lancaster (North-East Milton Keynes) Lindsay Roy: I thank the Minister for that response. (Con): What terms of reference has the Foreign Secretary May I ask in what ways the UK Government are set for the latest review of the Helmand road map and, supporting companies planning to drill for oil in the crucially, how do they differ from those used two years seas around the Falklands? ago? David Miliband: The best way of supporting legal David Miliband: I will not try to dictate the terms of and appropriate economic development around the reference from memory, but I am happy to set them Falkland Islands is to uphold the rule of international down and write to the hon. Gentleman. law. That is precisely what we are doing in the case of 789 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 790 the hydrocarbons exploration that is going on at the I assure him that I do not have to go to see the moment. The companies are acting wholly within their Argentine chargé d’affaires, as my hon. Friend the rights and within the legality of international law— Minister for Europe met the Argentine chargé on Friday [Interruption.] I am happy to answer a question from and was able to discuss this issue fully and in the round. the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) if he would like to put it properly rather than from a sedentary Bermuda (Buckfast Prohibition) position. There is a good answer to his question, if he chooses to ask it, concerning where the proceeds go. 9. Mr. Ian Davidson (Glasgow, South-West) (Lab/Co-op): The best way to secure such rights is for international If he will discuss with the Government of Bermuda law to be upheld. their policy on the prohibition of Buckfast tonic wine. [319391] Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): May I thank the Foreign Secretary for his unequivocal and The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): Iamalways reassuring response to the original question? Will he tell happy to discuss any matter with the Government of the House what special action has been taken to ensure Bermuda, although the prohibition of Buckfast would that the mistakes of the early 1980s are not repeated be a matter solely for them. and that the Argentines are given no encouragement whatever to think that they can take unprovoked, Mr. Davidson: I am very glad to hear that, because provocative action against a sovereign country and an Buckfast is a noxious substance that causes tremendous independent people? difficulties with antisocial behaviour and crime in my constituency and throughout the west of Scotland. It is David Miliband: The most important way in which very welcome news that Bermuda is considering banning we can continue to secure the Falkland islanders’ right it, and I welcome the fact that the Government will not to determine their own future is to continue the security intervene to prevent the Bermudans from doing so. Will presence that we have in the area. We do so on a routine the Minister undertake to give them a warm welcome and uninterrupted basis, and that is very important. We when the new aircraft carriers visit Bermuda? will continue to maintain in international forums as well as bilaterally with the Argentine Government the Chris Bryant: My hon. Friend proves that, in the importance of upholding international law. words of Horace Walpole, the anniversary of whose death is today: Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): The “This world is a comedy to those that think, and a tragedy to people of the Falkland Islands have very broad shoulders those that feel.” and they deal with Argentine sabre-rattling with great My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the issues resilience. They do so because they know that all Members relating to Buckfast. The Government in Bermuda have of this House give them our full support. May I ask the not made it clear that they want to ban it, but they have Foreign Secretary to consider sending one of his Ministers made it clear that they are considering the issue. They to the Falkland Islands before the general election so have already decided to reclassify some other alcoholic that they know that they have our solidarity and support and caffeine drinks. and our very best wishes may be taken to them? Tibet David Miliband: I am not sure whether my hon. Friend is suggesting that our military capacity and 10. Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): What representations security presence somehow needs the reinforcement of he has received on the effects on the indigenous Tibetan a ministerial flak jacket in the Falkland Islands. My population of his Department’s change of policy in hon. Friend the Minister for Europe has been extremely relation to the status of Tibet. [319392] active bilaterally both within the European Union and with other South American countries. It is important The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth that we say that the right of the Falkland Islands to Affairs (David Miliband): The decision to update our self-determination is absolute while, at the same time, position on Tibet brought the UK into line with continuing to work for co-operation with the Argentines, international partners, including the United States, and for example in the forum of the G20, which is a good the position of the Dalai Lama himself. It gives us a forum for international co-operation. stronger platform to raise the issues that matter to the people of Tibet, and we have been raising those issues. I Mr. David Lidington (Aylesbury) (Con): When the have been very clear in my contacts with the Chinese Foreign Secretary next meets the Argentine chargé d’affaires, leadership that we have serious concerns with the human will he perhaps suggest that the development of rights situation and the lack of meaningful autonomy hydrocarbons around the Falkland Islands could benefit in Tibet. I have urged them to engage in dialogue, and I the people of Argentina as well as the people of the will do so again when I visit China later this month. Falklands if Argentina were prepared to undertake normal commercial relations with the Falkland Islands, Norman Baker: I am grateful for the response that I but that on questions of democracy and self-determination have been given, and I recognise that the Government we cannot compromise? have been doing lobbying of that nature, but I am concerned that there has not been one single concrete David Miliband: I hope that the hon. Gentleman is achievement for the Tibetan people as a consequence of not making a suggestion regarding the proceeds from that change of policy. I do not refer to the visit to Tibet that exploration. Perhaps he is trying to answer the by the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth question that the hon. Member for Moray raised earlier. Office, the hon. Member for Bury, South (Mr. Lewis), 791 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 792 as that was not for the Tibetan people. Can the Foreign Iran has not co-operated in meeting its responsibilities Secretary, in all honesty, point to a single thing that has under international obligations with regard to its nuclear been achieved for the people of Tibet arising from that weapons capacity. That is why we now believe that the change? only way forward is to consider tougher economic sanctions against Iran. David Miliband: The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue. In the end, the test is whether there is an improvement Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): in conditions on the ground. If we are to have any kind Has the Minister had any discussions with representatives of engagement on that internal issue, we have to do so from the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, which through forums such as the human rights dialogue that involves Russia, China, India and Pakistan among others, we have now established with China, in relation to to see whether it can exert pressure on the Iranians to which there has recently been a visit to Tibet. Such cease their nuclear installation programme? engagement is important, and I look forward to reporting back on the discussions that I shall have in China later Mr. Lewis: We have had those discussions with Russia, this month. but not with the Shanghai organisation to which my hon. Friend refers. Mr. Chris Mullin (Sunderland, South) (Lab): Has my Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Kensington and Chelsea) (Con): right hon. Friend any information about the whereabouts Is the Minister aware that on 14 February, in the presence of the Panchen Lama, who was for all practical purposes of representatives of the International Atomic Energy kidnapped at the age of five or six by the Chinese Agency, the Iranian authorities transferred almost their Government and has not been heard of since, even now, total supply of low-enriched uranium from a deeply about 15 years later? Has my right hon. Friend ever protected underground facility to a surface plant, for no asked the Chinese about the whereabouts of the Panchen obvious reason? Does the Foreign Office have a view Lama? about why that might have happened, particularly as it makes the country’s very valuable enriched uranium far David Miliband: Yes; the issue is raised regularly. It more vulnerable to possible military action? was raised most recently by my hon. Friend the Minister of State during his visit to Tibet, but no we have never Mr. Lewis: This has been discussed in the IAEA only had an answer. this week. It is a serious escalation of the situation that should give the international community more cause for concern. As the right hon. and learned Gentleman is Iran fully aware, it is essential that we achieve international unity over the next stage, which is adopting economic 11. Mr. David Amess (Southend, West) (Con): What sanctions, especially against the decision makers in the recent assessment he has made of the political situation regime. We have seen no attempt by the Iranian authorities in Iran; and if he will make a statement. [319393] to respond positively to our requests for diplomatic and political solutions. The door remains open, but we have The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth no choice now but to consider economic sanctions. Office (Mr. Ivan Lewis): Iranian authorities continue to suppress legitimate protest, restrict civil liberties and Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): I thank the threaten violence, even execution, to silence dissent, but Minister for what he said about human rights in Iran the Iranian people continue to demand their fundamental and I agree with him on that. Will he look forward to rights. We urge the authorities to respect the right of the non-proliferation treaty review in May and extend their citizens to be heard. efforts to create a nuclear-free middle east? That would help to defuse the situation and bring Israel into discussions Mr. Amess: Efforts for peaceful regime change seem about nuclear disarmament, which in turn would remove to have stalled at the moment, but the Iranian President any arguments that could be used in favour of developing continues with his development of nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons in the region. his hatred of Israel. Will the Minister tell the House Mr. Lewis: My hon. Friend makes an important what specific pressure is being put on the Iranian regime point. Every UN resolution on the question of Iran’s to improve its human rights record? nuclear weapons capacity that has been proposed and passed talks about a middle east that is free of nuclear Mr. Lewis: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to weapons. As a result, it is simply untrue for the Iranians raise the issue at this time. Amnesty International says to say, as they sometimes attempt to do, that we are not that it is the worst human rights situation for 20 years. playing on a level playing field when it comes to our The way in which the Iranian authorities attempted to response to their nuclear weapons capacity. We should quell protests during the national day celebrations has remember that this is not just about the threat to the rightly been described as stability of the middle east that would be posed by Iran “a chilling campaign of threats and intimidation”. developing nuclear weapons. The arms race that would We, in the context of the European Union and with our be triggered in the region would be like nothing we have allies in the United Nations and the United States, ever seen before, and that is why it is so crucial that we constantly apply pressure to the Iranians about their stop Iran developing nuclear weapons. human rights record and their nuclear file. Mr. William Hague (Richmond, Yorks) (Con): At the Frankly, we have reached out an olive branch to Iran. last Foreign Office questions, the Foreign Secretary We have offered a diplomatic and political way forward assured the House that it would not take “several months” but, instead of getting a positive response, we have seen for new UN sanctions on Iran to be agreed. That was in a deterioration in internal human rights there. In addition, January; it is now March, and the US Secretary of State 793 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 794 has said that it may take up to two months more for Piracy (Somalia) those sanctions to be agreed. Does he need to modify in any way what Ministers have said about that, and 12. John Howell (Henley) (Con): What recent discussions should we not now be galvanised, for some of the he has had with his international counterparts on piracy reasons that the Minister has set out, into urgently around the coast of Somalia. [319394] adopting new sanctions? The latest IAEA report says that Iran has amassed a dangerous stockpile of enriched uranium, and that it may be working on a nuclear The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth warhead and have secret nuclear sites. Office (Mr. Ivan Lewis): My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary regularly discusses piracy off the Mr. Lewis: Modifying statements made by the Foreign coast of Somalia in both bilateral and multilateral Secretary is not a good career move from my point of meetings. Recent discussions took place during the view—[Interruption.] Not everyone agrees, necessarily. Yemenconference in January and the EU Foreign Ministers I genuinely think that the right hon. Gentleman and I meeting in November 2009. are in agreement on these issues. Of course speed is important, and it is urgent that we send the strongest John Howell: Does the Minister agree that the root possible message to the Iranians, but he would agree cause of that piracy is instability in Somalia and the that unity matters too. If the Iranians spot any sense of surrounding countries, so what progress has been made division in the international community, that could to stabilise them? undermine the power of our message. It is worth waiting those few extra weeks if it means that we can achieve Mr. Lewis: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to the maximum international support that we need if we say that this is a broader question of stability. We have are take the further economic sanctions that are so decided, quite rightly, as part of the international crucial. community, to support the transitional Government. This issue requires an approach that is about security as Mr. Hague: It is of course vital to have that unity, but well as more inclusive and effective government, and there must also be a necessary sense of urgency. Will the getting the economy and social provision moving in Minister set out what the British Government are doing Somalia. Through the Department for International diplomatically to ensure that other nations in Europe Development, we are applying an integrated approach, and around the world are ready to co-ordinate tighter bringing together security, improved governance and sanctions, if necessary on top of and in addition to development, and the international community needs what is agreed eventually at the UN Security Council? to adopt that approach if we are to bring stability to That could include action against the Iranian Revolutionary Somalia. Guard Corps, as well as tough financial sanctions and targeted action against the Iranian leadership. Is it not Tony Lloyd (Manchester, Central) (Lab): The hon. time to step up our diplomatic efforts on this matter, if Member for Henley (John Howell) is absolutely right. Iran is to take our resolve seriously? Although I appreciate my hon. Friend’s comments, the reality is that the world has been very slow to recognise Mr. Lewis: We are leading the argument at the UN both the seriousness of the vacuum of power in Somalia and in the EU. We are using our bilateral relations to and the serious threat that that represents to individuals encourage countries with influence over less supportive through piracy and to the wider community in east countries to move immediately to sanctions; we are Africa and globally. Is it not time that we said to using all those diplomatic channels, from the Prime Washington and to others who are involved that we Minister downwards. As I said, speed matters and the need to apply proper pressure to build an effective urgency of the message to the Iranian Government is infrastructure in Somalia? important, but so is maximum international unity if they are to take that message seriously. Mr. Lewis: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is okay to discuss a joined-up UK approach on security, Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): The governance and development, but we need members of regime is despicable, but why is it so troubling to the the international community to come together in a United Kingdom that Iran is going nuclear when so co-ordinated way. We are working closely with our EU many other countries have already done so—for example, partners and the United Nations, including the special India, Pakistan and, of course, Israel? Does that not representative of the Secretary-General. This is an issue smack of double standards? that is increasingly discussed in the context of our bilateral relationship with the United States. Mr. Lewis: I have a massive amount of respect for my hon. Friend, but he does himself a disservice by sending Falkland Islands that kind of message from the House to the Iranian Government. Let me make the position clear. Of course, 13. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): What Iran’s development of nuclear weapons is a threat to assessment he has made of the implications of the stability in the middle east, but it would also trigger an Argentine Government’s position on oil drilling in the arms race the likes of which we have never seen before waters around the Falkland Islands; and if he will among Iran’s neighbours. In a year in which the world is make a statement. [319395] seeking to make progress on non-proliferation in the review of the non-proliferation treaty, this is about the The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): Argentina’s threat that Iran would pose to our national security and reaction to the resumption of hydrocarbons exploration that of countries in the region, but it is also about the in Falklands waters has not changed the British arms race that it would inevitably trigger. Government’s position one iota. We have no doubt 795 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 796 about Britain’s sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, in Buenos Aires to the people of Argentina in order to nor about the islanders’full right to develop a hydrocarbons communicate the fact that this is not a simple, tired, industry. post-colonial issue but is about the islanders’ right of self-determination? Mr. Robathan: I am very glad to hear that response. In 2003, we gave unequivocal support to the United Chris Bryant: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right States of America on Iraq, and we are now fighting to say that this is a matter of self-determination for shoulder to shoulder, and our soldiers are dying together, the people of the Falklands. When some people— in Afghanistan, yet the US Government are equivocating Argentines—suggest that there are not any indigenous on the subject. Will the Minister tell me what Hillary people to the Falklands, I point out that many people Clinton might facilitate when she offers to act as a from Argentina are of Italian, British, Scottish and facilitator? German stock, going back fewer generations than the presence on the Falklands Islands. [HON.MEMBERS: Chris Bryant: The US Government’s position, which “And Welsh.”] For that matter, as several hon. Members they have held since 1947, has not changed at all in any are pointing out, many people of Welsh stock live in recent discussions, and we have made it absolutely clear Patagonia. that we do not believe there is any need for negotiation I know that the relationships between our two countries or discussion, because there is nothing to discuss in are very strong, and there are many areas in which terms of sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, which Argentina has been extremely courageous, not least in should be a self-determined issue and solely a self- relation to counter-proliferation. We stand ready to determined issue. The one point on which we would be work with it on all those issues, as I pointed out to the prepared to continue negotiations is a return to the chargé d’affaires the other day. It would be good if it 1995 joint declaration on hydrocarbons co-operation had an ambassador back in London. from which the Argentines themselves withdrew unilaterally in 1997. Topical Questions Mr. David Hamilton (Midlothian) (Lab): On the question T1. [319407] Mrs. Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): If he [Interruption.] of Afghanistan, the issue surely must be— will make a statement on his departmental I am sorry, we have taken the questions too quickly. My responsibilities. apologies. I was getting up for the question on Afghanistan. I got the wrong question. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Mr. Speaker: I am sorry to have inconvenienced Affairs (David Miliband): On Saturday, Chile was struck everyone. Let us hear from Mr. Russell. by an earthquake of magnitude 8.8 on the Richter scale. My thoughts and, I am sure, those of every Member are Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): The Falkland Islands, with the families of those killed and injured. Currently, in the south Atlantic, are very important to Britain’s there are no confirmed British casualties. We have located interests. May I draw the Minister’s attention to the fact more than 270 British nationals and confirmed that that without Ascension Island the Falklands could not they are safe. The Government have made an initial be sustained, and that without the people of St. Helena donation of £250,000 to facilitate the work of the Red living on the Falklands and Ascension Island the Falklands Cross in Chile, and the European Union has provided could not be sustained? Is it not time that Britain an immediate ¤3 million for the relief effort. My right looked at the whole south Atlantic as a single strategically hon. Friend the Prime Minister spoke to President important part of the world? Bachelet yesterday to offer further support and condolences on behalf of the whole country. Chris Bryant: The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. and I have had many conversations with the Mrs. McGuire: I thank my right hon. Friend for that Ministry of Defence about ensuring that it recognises update on the situation in Chile. the financial requirements on Ascension. We also have a My right hon. Friend travels the world vigorously duty to stand by St. Helena. promoting the UK’s foreign policy interests. In any of UK-Argentina Relations those multilateral and bilateral discussions, which he has had over some years, has it ever been suggested to 14. Mr. Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con): What him that it is unpatriotic of a British Foreign Minister recent assessment he has made of the state of relations to work for the return of a Labour Government at home? between the UK and Argentina; and if he will make a statement. [319396] David Miliband: My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. I, like many people, was shocked by The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): We have a the Leader of the Opposition’s suggestion that it was productive relationship on a range of issues, including somehow unpatriotic to work for the re-election of a in the G20, such as climate change, sustainable development Labour Government—or, for that matter, for any other and counter-proliferation. We hope that current tensions party. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman was over the Falklands will not escalate and undermine our showing his inexperience, and I think that he should co-operation on other issues. apologise to all Labour voters in this country. Mr. Benyon: Argentina today is very different from Mr. William Hague (Richmond, Yorks) (Con): Ignoring the Argentina of the early ’80s. It is a wonderful place the last remark, may I associate the Opposition fully full of many people who share our values. Does the with what the Foreign Secretary said about the situation Minister agree that the Government should reach over in Chile and the action that the Government have taken the head of Argentina’s rather dysfunctional Government and endorsed? 797 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 798

On the separate matter of the killing of Mr. al-Mabhouh to start immediately, but also that there is a short-term, in Dubai, the Foreign Secretary said to me in a letter immediate humanitarian issue in respect of the 100,000 last week that or 80,000 IDPs. It is obviously a good step forward that “if the Israelis had been responsible for this, the UK would have instead of 280,000 or 300,000 IDPs there are 100,000 or the strongest expectations that this would not happen again.” 80,000, but the number needs to get down to zero as fast I think the whole House will back him up in that. as possible. That is certainly the case that we make However, may I repeat a question that I have now asked publicly and privately in all forums. Ministers twice? Did he specifically ask his Israeli T4. [319410] Mrs.JoanHumble(Blackpool,Northand counterpart for an assurance that Israel will never sanction Fleetwood) (Lab): Has the Secretary of State visited the misuse of British passports in any future intelligence Cuba recently, and if he has not, does he have any operation? Will he seek such an assurance, and does he plans to do so? [Interruption.] have any expectation of receiving such an assurance? David Miliband: I would be delighted to visit Cuba—and David Miliband: Of course I make it clear, not just to delighted, of course, to go with Mrs. Clinton. My hon. Israel but to any country, that we have every expectation Friend raises an important point, and if I were to go to that no country, especially a friendly one, would interfere Cuba, I would insist on meeting the Opposition as well with British passports or promote their fraudulent use. as the Government. That is a common EU position. I I made that clear to the Israeli Foreign Minister, and I am very disappointed that the right hon. Member for do so to anyone else who is considering such a course. Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague) went to Cuba without The Israeli Foreign Minister insisted to me that he had meeting the Opposition. If I went, I certainly would not no information that corroborated allegations of Israeli go on a free flight on Ashcroft airways, and if I ever met involvement, but I none the less made clear to him our Lord Ashcroft, I would want to know what his tax very strong view that Israel should co-operate with the status was. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will investigation that has been launched by the Serious explain that when he— Organised Crime Agency, and that, as I said clearly in my letter, we had every expectation that if there had Mr. Speaker: Order. We do not need to go into been an occurrence such as this, it would never happen that now. again. T2. [319408] Mr.ShaileshVara(North-WestCambridgeshire) T3. [319409] John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) (Con): In June last year, I asked the Foreign Secretary (Lab): My right hon. Friend will be well aware of the about the provision by Britain of military training to situation in Nigeria, where President Yar’Adua had the vile Sudanese regime. At the time, he said that he been out of the country for health reasons and then would review the matter and come back to me. Some came back without being seen, and the Vice-President eight months later, he has not yet done so, so will he had no access to him. Meanwhile, the post-amnesty kindly give me an update now? problem in the Niger delta is getting worse. Will he have a word with the Nigerians to ensure that British David Miliband: I am happy to give an update by citizens working in Nigeria will be protected? letter, and I will send the hon. Gentleman a letter as soon as I can. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth [319414] Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): The Foreign Office (Mr. Ivan Lewis): My hon. Friend has a long-standing T8. Secretary has told us what the Israeli Foreign Minister, interest in Nigeria and always tries to be constructive on Mr. Liberman, insisted to him. Does he believe the issue. Of course, the situation is very difficult. The Mr. Liberman, and does he expect the House to do so? President has returned to the country and the acting President continues to govern. What is important is that David Miliband: I certainly would not tell the rest of the Government of that country behave in accordance the House what to believe. However, I would say, very with its constitution and rule of law. We welcome the seriously, that an investigation is going on. It is right fact that the acting President has committed to make that while allegations fly around, we should wait until progress on the Niger delta amnesty programme, electoral the conclusion of our investigation before coming to reform and addressing corruption. It is obviously important any conclusions. that, at this very delicate time, we try to contribute to securing maximum stability, which will in turn protect T5. [319411] Mr. Anthony Steen (Totnes) (Con): Those British citizens in Nigeria. who visited the excellent exhibition on human trafficking in the Upper Committee corridor last week Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): would have been impressed by the stories of domestics What pressure is being brought to bear on the Sri working for embassies, many of whom were treated as Lankan Government to release, as soon as possible, an domestic slaves. Will the Foreign Office now support estimated 100,000 Tamils who are still being held in the Home Office decision to amend the diplomatic internally displaced persons camps 10 months after the domestic visa, so that those maltreated domestic fighting ended? workers no longer face deportation if they run away from the embassy in which they have been maltreated? David Miliband: In every conversation that I have with the Sri Lankan Prime Minister, I make the precise The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): The hon. point that for the future of Sri Lanka, after the end of a Gentleman makes a very good point, and I know that bloody civil war that lasted 26 years and claimed the he has devoted a considerable part of his political lives of some 70,000 people, the process of political career to addressing that issue, for which I pay tribute to reconciliation, including constitutional reform, needs him. One terrible problem faced by people—normally 799 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 800 young women, but sometimes young men—in that situation David Miliband: The hon. Gentleman makes an is that they are in a complex double bind: if they try to important point. Not just the BBC but Deutsche Welle break free, they will be sent back to the country of and other international broadcasting organisations are origin. We are looking very closely at that situation with being blocked from Iran. That is doubly significant the Home Office, and I hope we can provide a satisfactory given the popularity of those international stations. He answer fairly soon. makes the very good point that we should be working hard to get those airwaves free again. We are certainly T9. [319415] Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): Will my doing so bilaterally, but I can assure him that we are hon. Friend tell me what steps his Department is taking also doing so on the multilateral scene. to promote free and fair elections in Burma later this year? Mrs. Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): Checkpoints in west bank cities have been reduced from Mr. Ivan Lewis: Recent events in Burma do not 41 to 14. How far is this responsible for economic encourage us to believe that the elections will be free progress on the west bank? and fair. For example, Aung San Suu Kyi faced trumped up charges, a bogus trial, and a sentence that was an David Miliband: Obviously, the reduction in checkpoints offence to any notion of justice, and now her appeal has is welcome. I have the latest figures for 2008 and 2009 been thrown out. Of course, we continue to hope that for economic development in the west bank and I have the Burmese authorities will miraculously change their discussed them with Prime Minister Fayyad recently. It position in the weeks and months ahead, so that the is fair to say that although the reduction in checkpoints elections will be free and fair, but that will require not is welcome, the economic growth was secured before only the release of Aung San Suu Kyi but the changing that reduction. We hope that the reduction in checkpoints of the constitution and the release of more than 2,000 will contribute to further economic growth in the years political prisoners. We continue to hope, but I must say ahead. that we are very sceptical about the prospect of those elections being free and fair. Sir Menzies Campbell (North-East Fife) (LD): Can the Foreign Secretary tell us what practical measures of co-operation are being offered by the Israeli Government T6. [319412] Mr. James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): Despite the potentially significant costs to US-China to those conducting the investigation into the abuse of relations, President Obama was none the less happy to British passports? How would he characterise that meet the Dalai Lama. Why did the Prime Minister co-operation? refuse to do so? David Miliband: I would say that it is premature to characterise the co-operation on a scale of one to 10, or David Miliband: The Prime Minister did meet the nought to 10, but it is important that we send a clear Dalai Lama. message that we expect that full co-operation. The Serious Organised Crime Agency investigation is getting T10. [319416] Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): going, and is now spending some time in the middle Co-operation between NATO and the European east. For obvious reasons, I shall not give a running Union continues to be undermined by the absence of commentary on that investigation, but I take the right agreement between Turkey and Greece on the long- hon. and learned Gentleman’s point seriously—I am term future of Cyprus. What are the Government sure that the House agrees—and we expect full co-operation doing to try to resolve that situation? with SOCA’s work.

Chris Bryant: We are very keen to use the current Mr. Ken Purchase (Wolverhampton, North-East) (Lab/ opportunity—Governments in Ankara and Athens, and Co-op): The Government are correct to work for the leaders in the north and south of Cyprus, who are toughest possible inspection regime of the Iranian ambition committed to a successful, whole settlement in Cyprus—and to promote enriched nuclear material, whether for domestic determined to do everything we can to ensure that there or other purposes. However, the Foreign Secretary has a is a further intensification of those talks. The current duty to tell us in what circumstances he believes the situation on the island is a tragedy of significant proportions, Iranians might launch an attack on any other country and it will never be resolved unless there is a comprehensive in that region, especially Israel. settlement. David Miliband: The Iranians do not have a nuclear T7. [319413] Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): To weapon yet, thank God, and that is important. The return to the vexed situation in Iran, I am sure we agree whole thrust of our policy is reducing tension in the that the best solution would be a more moderate and area. From my discussions with Gulf neighbours, I can democratic Government in that country, yet the tell my hon. Friend that they are extremely worried oppressive Ahmadinejad regime is now blocking all about Iranian destabilisation activities in the Gulf. The international broadcasts, including BBC Persian TV. support that is given to Hezbollah and Hamas is also Could the Government put pressure on satellite destabilising for the middle east. The offer that has been broadcasters that are used by Iran via the International made clearly to Iran is that it will be treated as a normal Telecommunications Union, and consider including country, on nuclear and other matters, when it starts telecommunications in any proposed sanctions? That behaving as a normal country. That is not victimisation; would at least allow the people of Iran to see a different Iran is the author of its own misfortunes, massively view to that which their Government wants to show against the interests of its people. That is why our them. strategy of reaching out to the Iranian people—not 801 Oral Answers2 MARCH 2010 Oral Answers 802 victimising them—while putting pressure on the regime Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): To return to the must be the right one. After all, me may be dissatisfied horn of Africa and piracy, is the Secretary of State with the Iranian regime, but it is only half the dissatisfaction aware that some people in international shipping are felt by the Iranian people. turning off their automatic transponders, which is making it very difficult for ships, including those from the Royal Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): Navy and other navies from across the world, to protect Will the Foreign Secretary take the opportunity this international shipping? It might also be a breach of week to speak to the South African President and chapter 5 of SOLAS—the international convention for Foreign Minister and discuss the situation in Zimbabwe? the safety of life at sea—and disqualify any future Will he try to persuade them that we really would insurance claims. appreciate it enormously if they put a little more pressure on Mr. Mugabe, because he is the impediment to progress David Miliband: No, I was not aware of that important in that country? point, but I am happy to forward it to Operation Atalanta headquarters—the centre of the EU naval David Miliband: I am happy to report to the hon. mission off Somalia—at Northwood here in the UK. Gentleman and to the House that I met the South He raises an important point. International shipping African Foreign Minister this morning in advance of has a responsibility to work with international security the state visit. There is a high degree of interest in, and forces, both on the lanes and the identification of their excitement about, the state visit in South Africa, as ships to promote safety on the high seas. there is here, and we welcome President Zuma and his 12-strong ministerial team and 200-strong business team Mr. Andy Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s very warmly. We discussed the Zimbabwe situation this Bush) (Lab): On 11 February, at least 17 children were morning. I very much take the content of the hon. arrested from the Al Jalazun refugee camp by Israeli Gentleman’s question in the spirit in which it is intended, forces in the middle of the night and allegedly suffered recognising South Africa’s central role, and I assure him ill treatment, then and during interrogation. What that I conveyed both at the meeting today. representations has the Secretary of State made to the Israeli Government about the large number of Palestinian children held in custody and facing trial, if at all, by a Harry Cohen (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Will the military tribunal? Minister take a look at Amnesty International’s January report “Giving Life, Risking Death”, which reports David Miliband: My hon. Friend, who I know follows 200,000 unnecessary deaths among pregnant women in these issues carefully, has raised related or similar issues Burkina Faso because of discrimination and other factors? with me before. As I said to him on those occasions, we Will he authorise a diplomatic effort to try to help that raise very clearly with the Israelis and, I have to say, country to bring down that figure? with the Palestinians, a range of human rights issues, including not only social and economic rights but security Chris Bryant: I am grateful for the point that my hon. and the treatment of detainees. I do not know of the Friend makes. He is right to say that there are significant individual case that he raises, but I shall certainly look issues that we need to address, and that is one that will into it. It is important that the message goes out very be referred to in the Foreign Office’s own human rights clearly that we expect all sides to live up to their report, which we will publish in the next couple of international, as well as domestic, obligations under weeks. international law. 803 2 MARCH 2010 Points of Order 804

Points of Order I raised in a question my concerns about Lord Ashcroft, I was, in a kindly and friendly way, warned by a Back-Bench 3.36 pm Conservative Member that I should keep quiet because Lord Ashcroft had a way of exacting retribution from Justine Greening (Putney) (Con): On a point of order, his critics. Indeed, he expressed the view that he personally Mr. Speaker. At Communities and Local Government would not cross Lord Ashcroft. Given this morning’s topical questions on 26 January, and again last month revelations about Lord Ashcroft’s true status, will there during the local government finance report debate on be an opportunity for the House to discuss him and the 3 February, the Secretary of State for Communities and process by which he became a Member of the House of Local Government used Treasury costings to claim in Lords? the House that our policy of working with local authorities to help them to freeze council tax for two years was using “dodgy, unrealistic and out-of-date figures”.—[Official Report, Mr. Speaker: If memory serves me, the hon. Gentleman 26 January 2010; Vol. 504, c. 672.] entered the House in 1979, and therefore he is not far It now turns out that the Treasury figures on which he short of 31 years in the House. He will be well familiar based those comments were themselves wrong. In fact, with the institution of business questions on a Thursday we have seen them updated, in a response to a freedom morning, and I have a hunch—something tells me—that of information request, and the figures have now been on Thursday he might be tempted to raise this matter updated on the Treasury website. and to seek the debate after which he obviously hankers. Mr. Speaker, will you give me some guidance on whether, given that the Secretary of State was quick to Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): On a come back and comment on the original Treasury costings, point of order, Mr. Speaker. I seek your advice and we can get him to return to the House to comment on help. During Question Time today, the matter of the the fact that those figures, and therefore his comments, state visit by the President of South Africa was raised. were wrong? This is a major event involving 12 Ministers, and it is important both to this country and for the influence Mr. Speaker: I thank the hon. Lady for her point of that can be brought to bear in Zimbabwe. Is it possible, order, and I am happy indeed to offer her some guidance. through you, Mr. Speaker, to request that a statement The point that she has just raised is regrettably not a be made by the Foreign Secretary as soon as he is in a point of order, but a point of debate. On reflection, I position to do so? think that she herself will almost certainly be conscious of that fact. My particular guidance to her would be that she should table further questions precisely to elicit Mr. Speaker: I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman, the information that she thinks that she should get. I am who is in his 39th year as a Member of this House, has sure that it will not be beyond her ingenuity to find a been invited to any of the events attendant on President variety of ways to press her case. Zuma’s visit. Of course, that is not a matter for me. He has, however, placed his views clearly on record. I think Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): On that we will have to leave the matter there for today, but a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Some months ago, when I suspect that many will study his remarks. 805 2 MARCH 2010 Major Capital Contracts (Skills 806 Training Requirements) Major Capital Contracts 300 workers from Italy. They put them up in cheap (Skills Training Requirements) dormitories and underpaid them in comparison with the locally and nationally negotiated pay rates. There Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order were also major questions about health and safety. The No. 23) Bill would make it much harder for that to happen, and it would make it illegal not to allow such jobs to be advertised in the local jobcentres. 3.40 pm Other provisions would do something far more powerful John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): I beg to move, on contract compliance. The first would put a requirement That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require public authorities on all public contracts of a certain size—the figure in letting contracts for major capital works to require contractors to the Bill is more than £50 million—that 2 per cent. of provide apprenticeships and skills training; and for connected the entire work force, including subcontractors, sub- purposes. subcontractors and agency workers, should be new My reason for introducing this Bill, which I am sure apprentices. Where there is a major power station, such will have widespread support across the House, is that as at West Burton in my constituency where a new gas we have seen some major disputes in recent times—notably power station is being built, and particularly when the at the Lindsey oil refinery and the Staythorpe power public purse is paying for those contracts, 2 per cent. station in Nottinghamshire—and a new dispute is emerging would mean 20 apprentices for every 1,000 workers, only this week at Milford Haven. In these disputes, local which seems a modest but reasonable input into developing workers and their unions have repeatedly made the case skills when letting all major public contracts. that they have been excluded from the ability to apply The Bill also provides for a specific legal requirement for jobs on major construction works. that all contracts involve a precise one hour’s training a I spoke at the Staythorpe workers’ demonstration in week, carried out in conjunction with local colleges, for Newark last year. I spoke again last month when the the existing work force. That would mean—it is crucial Staythorpe workers came to London to lobby Ministers. for new nuclear build—that we would upgrade the skills Those workers and their unions have been clear about at all levels of our work force, although, of course, that their basic demands. I have had the opportunity to would be determined by the companies because it would speak to them and to listen to them in great detail. be reasonable for them to decide what skills were required. Their view is that it is wholly unfair that such contracts When companies win these major contracts, with the can be let without giving their workers, who have the help of local training providers, they can upgrade skills necessary skills, an opportunity to apply for the jobs. for the future for building and managing big power stations or other major public works. The Prime Minister once talked about “British jobs for British workers”, and the workers at Lindsey and That combination would provide an economic advantage Staythorpe took up that theme. They defined it, although or a competitive advantage in all contracts to companies in some of the reporting their clear definitions have that have an employment base in this country, while it been lost. I pay tribute to the way in which they conducted would disadvantage others, such as the US company themselves, not least in ensuring that the bigots who Bechtel, that come in and hoover up employees from attempted to attach themselves to those disputes were elsewhere, including from competitors in this country, sent packing by the work force and by the unions, as every time they win a contract here. Such companies was appropriate. contribute nothing to our skills base, as they just do the work and get out. The Bill provides the detail that will enable us to spell out what the Prime Minister’s slogan should actually I think that this provides a realistic definition for mean, and it does so in three ways. The first relates to the slogan “British jobs for British workers”. As we major public contracts, of which there are many. They all know, British workers, including those on the have included the Crossrail contract that has recently demonstrations, are of all colours and creeds. Indeed, a been let, and the Olympic park, which also involves a number have been born in many different lands, but major capital contract. There are also major contracts those living and paying taxes in this country should involving schools and hospital programmes. Perhaps have the ability to do this work. the biggest of all will be the contracts for the new Finally, let me reiterate a point about apprentices. We nuclear power stations. They will be huge contracts have huge new nuclear build ahead that will provide under which tens of thousands of workers will be employment for vast numbers of workers. That work employed, directly and indirectly, on constructing the should go to companies based in this country, such as power stations that this country so urgently needs. Laing O’Rourke, which employs 350 people in a world- Under the Bill, there would be a legal requirement leading, pre-cast cement works in Worksop in my that all jobs relating to a contract for major public constituency. It is those companies that should be winning works worth more than £50 million must be advertised these contracts, not companies from afar that poach the in local jobcentres. That is a rather modest provision, work force and contribute nothing to the skills base. but it was precisely the demand of the workers in my For our young people, the thought of building these big area, and elsewhere in Nottinghamshire and the midlands, power stations without large numbers of new apprentices who were denied the opportunity to apply for jobs at learning building skills and power station management Staythorpe power station. skills is not just outrageous, as that would be, but I want to say a few words about the scandal of economically self-defeating. Staythorpe, which was comparable to the scandal of the I am certain that wise counsel on both sides of the Lindsey oil refinery. At Staythorpe, the employers cut House will enthusiastically support the Bill. It has the the wages and conditions of British workers and flew in support of the workers I have met from Lindsey and 807 Major Capital Contracts (Skills 2 MARCH 2010 808 Training Requirements) [John Mann] Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) Staythorpe, and of their unions as a way forward out of the disputes. Morally and economically, they are in the Queen’s recommendation signified. right and their employers are in the wrong. Question put and agreed to. Mr. Speaker: I call the right hon. Member for East Ham (Mr. Timms). Ordered, The right hon. Gentleman looks distinctly quizzical. That John Mann, Mr. Jamie Reed, Mr. Lindsay Hoyle, For his enlightenment, let me explain that I was referring Mr. Frank Field, Bob Spink and Mr. Robert Flello to the money motion relating to the Constitutional present the Bill. Reform and Governance Bill. I was advised by those in John Mann accordingly presented the Bill. the know that the right hon. Gentleman would be Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on moving it, but if the Secretary of State for Justice Friday 12 March, and to be printed (Bill 80). wishes to do so, we look forward to that with interest.

3.50 pm The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor (Mr. Jack Straw): Even Homer nodded, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Mr. Timms), I beg to move, That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill, it is expedient to authorise— (1) the payment out of the Consolidated Fund of sums required by the Electoral Commission to meet— (a) the charges payable to Regional Counting Officers in connection with a referendum held on the voting system for parliamentary elections, and (b) sums payable in respect of increases in superannuation contributions required to be paid by local authorities in consequence of fees paid as part of those charges, and (2) the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any expenditure incurred by virtue of the Act by the National Archives or any other government department. The motion, which adds to previous money resolutions, relates to two matters: the establishment of regional counting officers, which will be necessary for the proper administration of the referendum on voting systems to which the House has already agreed; and the provision of funds for the implementation of the Dacre report. Some extra costs will be involved in connection with that as the period within which official records must generally be released will be compressed from 30 years to 20.

3.51 pm Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con): I am sorry to disappoint the Secretary of State. If he had moved a money motion merely to deal with the Dacre proposals, I would have had no difficulty accepting it. However, the motion is also intended to facilitate the referendum on the alternative vote system, which we believe will prove both costly and utterly unnecessary, so we intend to oppose it.

3.52 pm Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I feel a little sorry for the right hon. Member for East Ham (Mr. Timms), who, despite being in the Chamber and despite having put his name to a motion, was clearly entirely unprepared to speak to the motion that he had apparently tabled. Having heard from the Lord Chancellor, I am a little at a loss to understand why this motion is needed in addition to the money resolution that was agreed before our last discussion on the Bill with regard to the referendum, 809 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 810 Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) although not in respect of the National Archives, which Mr. Straw: This is about establishing regional counting is being raised for the first time today. Perhaps the Lord officers better to co-ordinate the administration of the Chancellor will explain why the last money resolution referendum and the counting of votes. was incomplete or improper in some way, and why we May I answer directly the questions asked by the need this motion to deal with a matter that I thought right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood)? In the House had already determined, by means of a the debate on the previous money resolution, the hon. Division, when we last discussed the Bill. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) and many other Members referred, properly, to the estimates 3.53 pm of the cost of the referendum, which had already been Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): When a given by me and my ministerial colleagues in answer to Government are as deeply in debt as this Government— parliamentary questions and in other ways. We estimate when they are building up so much taxpayer debt—it the cost to be similar to that in a general election, which behoves a senior Cabinet Minister at least to extend to would be between £80 million and £100 million—we the House the courtesy of explaining how much additional cannot be absolutely certain. In part, the cost will money is in question, why the expenditure represents depend on whether the referendum coincides with local value for money, and what action the Government have elections in 2011, for example, or is a bespoke referendum. taken to try to ensure that the sums spent would be the The first limb of the proposals would not add very minimum necessary for their purposes so that they may much to the cost overall. Our hope is that, by having allay the fears of some Members that they are committing regional counting officers in place, we can reduce the huge sums for any purpose, on any whim or in respect totality of the administrative costs by better co-ordination. of any press release that takes their fancy during this On any basis, that is a considerable sum of money, but I pre-election period, without proper and due consideration happen to think that its purpose is very important. of the state of the public finances. I do not share the view of Conservative Members Of course there is political disagreement across the that there is no purpose in spending this money. It is House about the main purpose: the setting up of a important to give the British people a clear choice referendum on how voting systems should operate. We through a referendum about the kind of voting system think that that is a totally unnecessary device, and most that they want, without in any way undermining the unwelcome. However, leaving aside the issue of principle— principle, which is generally agreed across the Chamber which is not the substance of a money motion—I think and the country, of single-member representation of that we should at least be treated to some reassurance constituencies. The argument on the merits—I will not from the Cabinet Minister responsible that he has chosen go down that route—was made cogently by Labour the least costly way of proceeding, and that should be Members and Liberal Democrat Members in a previous put in the context of the huge borrowing and huge debate. However, we are considering a one-off cost. It is financial commitments that the Government are building different from continuing expenditure, which we would up. I cannot understand how any sensible Member of get, for example, if services in an area were expanded. Parliament could possibly grant the Government their Mr. Redwood: I would like to press my simple factual wish when such a low-priority item is uncosted, when request. How much extra will the money resolution there are no sums of money in the motion on the Order add? Presumably it will mean extra money, because Paper, and when no sums of money were mentioned in otherwise one would not need additional permission. the Secretary of State’s opening remarks. The House should be told how much extra will be added to the cost. 3.55 pm Mr. Straw: I am pleased to respond to this brief Mr. Straw: I will be very happy to write to the right debate. The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome hon. Gentleman about that. The amount is relatively (Mr. Heath) asked why the first limb of the money modest, but authority is still required to pay it. resolution is required, given the fact that a previous one I apologise to the House with regard to the second covers the proposals for a referendum on the alternative item because I should have given information about the vote. The answer is that this money resolution provides cost. We estimate that the cost of implementing the for regional counting officers. I know that that gives rise Dacre report, as proposed in measures to be considered to a question of why that was not in the previous money on Report, from the start date—that will be subject to resolution. All I have to say is that it was not, and I an order in both Houses beforehand, so it could be think that it is appropriate to ensure that there is 2011, 2012 or later—will be £28 million over five years, modest provision for the regional counting officers to or in other words about £5.5 million a year. With that, I be appointed and paid. hope that the money resolution will be widely endorsed by the House. Mr. Grieve: With his characteristic skill, the Secretary Question put. of State has failed to enlighten the House as to why that item was omitted from the earlier money resolution. The House divided: Ayes 331, Noes 161. Division No. 91] [4 pm Mr. Straw: Because it was a later entry into the consideration—that is the truth of it. The measure is AYES none the less very good and to be recommended. Abbott, Ms Diane Anderson, Mr. David Ainger, Nick Anderson, Janet Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): The regional counting Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Armstrong, rh Hilary officers would normally be the chief executives of local Alexander, Danny Atkins, Charlotte authorities, so they are already in receipt of very high Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Austin, Mr. Ian salaries. Allen, Mr. Graham Austin, John 811 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 812 Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) Bailey, Mr. Adrian Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit James, Mrs. Siân C. Oaten, Mr. Mark Bain, Mr. William Dismore, Mr. Andrew Jenkins, Mr. Brian Olner, Mr. Bill Baird, Vera Dobbin, Jim Johnson, Ms Diana R. Öpik, Lembit Baker, Norman Dobson, rh Frank Jones, Helen Osborne, Sandra Banks, Gordon Doran, Mr. Frank Jones, Mr. Kevan Plaskitt, Mr. James Barlow, Ms Celia Drew, Mr. David Jones, Lynne Pope, Mr. Greg Barrett, John Durkan, Mark Jones, Mr. Martyn Pound, Stephen Battle, rh John Eagle, Angela Jowell, rh Tessa Prentice, Bridget Bayley, Hugh Eagle, Maria Joyce, Mr. Eric Prentice, Mr. Gordon Beckett, rh Margaret Efford, Clive Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Prescott, rh Mr. John Begg, Miss Anne Ellman, Mrs. Louise Keeble, Ms Sally Price, Adam Beith, rh Sir Alan Engel, Natascha Keeley, Barbara Primarolo, rh Dawn Bell, Sir Stuart Etherington, Bill Keen, Alan Prosser, Gwyn Benton, Mr. Joe Farrelly, Paul Keetch, Mr. Paul Pugh, Dr. John Berry, Roger Farron, Tim Kelly, rh Ruth Purchase, Mr. Ken Betts, Mr. Clive Field, rh Mr. Frank Kemp, Mr. Fraser Rammell, Bill Blackman, Liz Fitzpatrick, Jim Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Flello, Mr. Robert Kidney, Mr. David Reed, Mr. Jamie Blears, rh Hazel Flint, rh Caroline Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Reid, Mr. Alan Borrow, Mr. David S. Flynn, Paul Kramer, Susan Reid, rh John Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Follett, Barbara Kumar, Dr. Ashok Rennie, Willie Brake, Tom Foster, Mr. Don Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Riordan, Mrs. Linda Breed, Mr. Colin Foster, Mr. Michael Lamb, Norman Robertson, Angus Brooke, Annette (Worcester) Lammy, rh Mr. David Robertson, John Brown, Lyn Foster, Michael Jabez Laws, Mr. David Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas (Hastings and Rye) Laxton, Mr. Bob Rogerson, Dan Brown, Mr. Russell Francis, Dr. Hywel Lazarowicz, Mark Rowen, Paul Bruce, rh Malcolm Gardiner, Barry Leech, Mr. John Roy, Mr. Frank Bryant, Chris Gerrard, Mr. Neil Lepper, David Roy, Lindsay Buck, Ms Karen Gilroy, Linda Levitt, Tom Ruane, Chris Burgon, Colin Goldsworthy, Julia Lewis, Mr. Ivan Ruddock, Joan Burnham, rh Andy Goodman, Helen Linton, Martin Russell, Bob Burt, Lorely Griffith, Nia Lloyd, Tony Russell, Christine Butler, Ms Dawn Griffiths, Nigel Love, Mr. Andrew Salter, Martin Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Grogan, Mr. John MacNeil, Mr. Angus Sanders, Mr. Adrian Cable, Dr. Vincent Hain, rh Mr. Peter Mactaggart, Fiona Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Hall, Mr. Mike Malik, Mr. Shahid Seabeck, Alison Cairns, David Hall, Patrick Mallaber, Judy Shaw, Jonathan Campbell, Mr. Alan Hamilton, Mr. David Mann, John Sheerman, Mr. Barry Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hancock, Mr. Mike Marris, Rob Sheridan, Jim Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Hanson, rh Mr. David Marsden, Mr. Gordon Simpson, Alan Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Harman, rh Ms Harriet Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Skinner, Mr. Dennis Caton, Mr. Martin Harris, Dr. Evan Martlew, Mr. Eric Slaughter, Mr. Andy Cawsey, Mr. Ian Harris, Mr. Tom Mason, John Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Clapham, Mr. Michael Harvey, Nick McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Smith, Ms Angela C. Clark, Ms Katy Heath, Mr. David McCarthy, Kerry (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Clark, Paul Hemming, John McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Henderson, Mr. Doug McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Smith, Geraldine Clarke,rhMr.Tom Hendrick, Mr. Mark McFall, rh John Smith, rh Jacqui Clegg, rh Mr. Nick Hepburn, Mr. Stephen McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Smith, Sir Robert Clelland, Mr. David Heppell, Mr. John McIsaac, Shona Snelgrove, Anne Clwyd, rh Ann Hesford, Stephen McKechin, Ann Soulsby, Sir Peter Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia Merron, Gillian Southworth, Helen Cohen, Harry Hill, rh Keith Michael, rh Alun Spellar, rh Mr. John Connarty, Michael Hillier, Meg Milburn, rh Mr. Alan Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Cook, Frank Hodge, rh Margaret Miliband, rh Edward Stewart, Ian Cooper, Rosie Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Miller, Andrew Stoate, Dr. Howard Corbyn, Jeremy Hoey, Kate Mitchell, Mr. Austin Strang, rh Dr. Gavin Cousins, Jim Holmes, Paul Moffatt, Laura Straw, rh Mr. Jack Crausby, Mr. David Hood, Mr. Jim Mole, Chris Stringer, Graham Creagh, Mary Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Moore, Mr. Michael Stuart, Ms Gisela Cruddas, Jon Hope, Phil Morden, Jessica Stunell, Andrew Cryer, Mrs. Ann Hopkins, Kelvin Morgan, Julie Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Cummings, John Howarth, David Mudie, Mr. George Swinson, Jo Cunningham, Mr. Jim Hughes, Simon Mulholland, Greg Tami, Mark Cunningham, Tony Huhne, Chris Mullin, Mr. Chris Taylor, Matthew Davey, Mr. Edward Humble, Mrs. Joan Munn, Meg Taylor, Dr. Richard David, Mr. Wayne Hunter, Mark Murphy, Mr. Denis Teather, Sarah Davidson, Mr. Ian Hutton, rh Mr. John Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Thomas, Mr. Gareth Davies, Mr. Quentin Iddon, Dr. Brian Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Thornberry, Emily Dean, Mrs. Janet Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Naysmith, Dr. Doug Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Denham, rh Mr. John Jackson, Glenda O’Hara, Mr. Edward Tipping, Paddy 813 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 814 Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) Todd, Mr. Mark Williams, Mr. Roger Hands, Mr. Greg Penrose, John Touhig, rh Mr. Don Willis, Mr. Phil Harper, Mr. Mark Pickles, Mr. Eric Trickett, Jon Willott, Jenny Hayes, Mr. John Prisk, Mr. Mark Truswell, Mr. Paul Wills, rh Mr. Michael Heald, Mr. Oliver Pritchard, Mark Turner, Dr. Desmond Wilson, Phil Hendry, Charles Randall, Mr. John Turner, Mr. Neil Winnick, Mr. David Herbert, Nick Redwood, rh Mr. John Twigg, Derek Winterton, Sir Nicholas Hoban, Mr. Mark Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Ussher, Kitty Wishart, Pete Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas Robathan, Mr. Andrew Waltho, Lynda Wood, Mike Hollobone, Mr. Philip Robertson, Mr. Laurence Ward, Claire Woolas, Mr. Phil Holloway, Mr. Adam Rosindell, Andrew Watson, Mr. Tom Wright, Mr. Anthony Howard, rh Mr. Michael Scott, Mr. Lee Watts, Mr. Dave Wright, David Howell, John Selous, Andrew Hunt, Mr. Jeremy Shapps, Grant Webb, Steve Wright, Dr. Tony Weir, Mr. Mike Hurd, Mr. Nick Shepherd, Mr. Richard Wyatt, Derek Whitehead, Dr. Alan Jack, rh Mr. Michael Simmonds, Mark Younger-Ross, Richard Wicks, rh Malcolm Jackson, Mr. Stewart Simpson, Mr. Keith Williams, rh Mr. Alan Tellers for the Ayes: Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Soames, Mr. Nicholas Williams, Mrs. Betty Mr. Bob Blizzard and Jones, Mr. David Spicer, Sir Michael Williams, Mark Steve McCabe Kawczynski, Daniel Spink, Bob Key, Robert Spring, Mr. Richard NOES Kirkbride, Miss Julie Steen, Mr. Anthony Knight, rh Mr. Greg Streeter, Mr. Gary Afriyie, Adam Davies, David T. C. Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Swayne, Mr. Desmond Ainsworth, Mr. Peter (Monmouth) Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Swire, Mr. Hugo Amess, Mr. David Davies, Philip Lancaster, Mr. Mark Syms, Mr. Robert Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Davis, rh David Lansley, Mr. Andrew Tapsell, Sir Peter Atkinson, Mr. Peter Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Leigh, Mr. Edward Timpson, Mr. Edward Bacon, Mr. Richard Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Turner, Mr. Andrew Baldry, Tony Duncan, Alan Lewis, Dr. Julian Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Baron, Mr. John Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Vaizey, Mr. Edward Bellingham, Mr. Henry Dunne, Mr. Philip Lidington, Mr. David Vara, Mr. Shailesh Benyon, Mr. Richard Evans, Mr. Nigel Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Viggers, Sir Peter Beresford, Sir Paul Evennett, Mr. David Loughton, Tim Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Binley, Mr. Brian Fabricant, Michael Luff, Peter Walker, Mr. Charles Blunt, Mr. Crispin Fallon, Mr. Michael Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Wallace, Mr. Ben Bone, Mr. Peter Field, Mr. Mark Main, Anne Walter, Mr. Robert Boswell, Mr. Tim Fox, Dr. Liam Malins, Mr. Humfrey Waterson, Mr. Nigel Bottomley, Peter Francois, Mr. Mark Maude, rh Mr. Francis Whittingdale, Mr. John Brady, Mr. Graham Fraser, Christopher McIntosh, Miss Anne Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Brazier, Mr. Julian Garnier, Mr. Edward McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Wiggin, Bill Brokenshire, James Gauke, Mr. David Miller, Mrs. Maria Willetts, Mr. David Browning, Angela Gibb, Mr. Nick Milton, Anne Wilshire, Mr. David Burrowes, Mr. David Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Wilson, Mr. Rob Burt, Alistair Goodman, Mr. Paul Murrison, Dr. Andrew Butterfill, Sir John Goodwill, Mr. Robert Winterton, Ann Newmark, Mr. Brooks Winterton, Sir Nicholas Cameron, rh Mr. David Gove, Michael O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Yeo, Mr. Tim Carswell, Mr. Douglas Gray, Mr. James Osborne, Mr. George Young, rh Sir George Clappison, Mr. James Grayling, Chris Paice, Mr. James Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth Green, Damian Paterson, Mr. Owen Tellers for the Noes: Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey Greening, Justine Pelling, Mr. Andrew Angela Watkinson and Cormack, Sir Patrick Grieve, Mr. Dominic Penning, Mike Jeremy Wright Crabb, Mr. Stephen Hague, rh Mr. William Curry, rh Mr. David Hammond, Mr. Philip Davies, Mr. Dai Hammond, Stephen Question accordingly agreed to. 815 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and Governance 816 Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill obviates the need for a significant Report stage. Will he (Programme) (No. 6) acknowledge, at least, that many of us in this House feel that the strict programming that reduces this important Bill’s Report stage to four and three quarter hours 4.14 pm effectively emasculates the Report stage and prevents us The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor from being given the time to analyse all the relevant (Mr. Jack Straw): I beg to move, parts? That the Order of 20 October 2009 in the last Session of Parliament (Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill (Programme)) Mr. Straw: There is a long-standing debate about be varied as follows: how much time we provide for debate on Bills on the 1. Paragraphs 6 and 7 of the Order shall be omitted. Floor of the House, which has been the subject of consideration in the Wright Committee and of its 2. Proceedings on consideration shall be taken in the order shown in the first column of the following Table. recommendations. The hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I do not go down that path in general. I accept that 3. The proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the times specified in the second the time provided for the Dacre provisions—an hour column of the Table. and a half—is relatively short, as is the time for the Kelly provisions. However, the Dacre provisions have TABLE significant cross-party consensus—there is no question about that—and were subject to lengthy consultation Proceedings Time for conclusion of proceedings by Paul Dacre and his colleagues on the review and, New Clauses and new One and a half hours after the subsequently, by the Government. The provisions relating Schedules relating to public commencement of proceedings on to Kelly, which are principally to do with pension records or freedom of consideration. provisions, follow on from earlier considerations about information. Kelly. Time is compressed, but it has been the decision New Clauses, new Schedules Two and a half hours after the of the whole of the House that we should legislate on and amendments relating to commencement of proceedings on Part 4. consideration or 9.00 pm, whichever Kelly before the general election and the general election is the earlier will take place on or before 3 June. I am looking New Clauses, new Schedules 9.00 pm. forward to that, but even for those who are not looking and amendments relating to forward to it there is nothing we can do about that Part 7; remaining new Clauses, inevitability. new Schedules and amendments; remaining proceedings on consideration. Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): Since the situation has somewhat changed since yesterday, with 4. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously the admission by Lord Ashcroft—at last telling the concluded) be brought to a conclusion at 10.00 pm. truth—that he is not domiciled in Britain for tax purposes, This programme motion is intended to ensure that there is there not a case for giving more time so that all these is sufficient time to debate the Government amendments matters can be properly considered? on Dacre and Kelly as well as part 7, which concerns Mr. Straw: They are certainly being properly considered protests in the vicinity of the Palace of Westminster. elsewhere in the House and outside. The questions keep As colleagues will readily recall, the Bill has been on coming as the Opposition give insufficient answers before the House since July of last year, when it had its to previous questions. Had we been able to anticipate Second Reading. It was preceded by a draft Bill and the decisions of Lord Ashcroft and the Conservative 18 consultations and publications. The Bill and the party, after 10 years of silence and obfuscation, to own draft Bill have been scrutinised by several Select Committees, up to the fact that, notwithstanding an earlier, clear including the Joint Committee on the Draft Constitutional commitment, Lord Ashcroft is a non-dom, we might Renewal Bill, the Public Administration Committee, well have been able to provide additional time on the the Select Committee on Justice and Committees in the Floor of the House, but I regret that the motion that I other place. I anticipate that there might be some suggestion am moving is the motion that I am moving. made that there has not been sufficient scrutiny of this measure, but I simply remind the House that on most of Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): We have the provisions—although, it is fair to say, not on the before us more than 50 pages to consider in the few two that are new before the House today—there has hours that the Government wish to allot. Will the Lord been huge prior consideration. When people seek to Chancellor remind the House how many new clauses hark back to an earlier alleged golden age—as I think and amendments have come from the Government for that the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire our consideration today? (Sir George Young) was about to, judging by the eye that he was giving me—it is worth recalling that in that Mr. Straw: I shall count them in due course, although alleged golden age there was no pre-legislative scrutiny the right hon. Gentleman seems to have done the task of Bills and few Bills were published in draft. This Bill, for us. The reason for the amendments is to give effect although it has been the subject of programme motions, to decisions that have already been taken by the House. has also been the subject of a huge amount of prior A large chunk of the provisions relate to the Kelly consideration and changes have been made to the Bill in proposals, and I thought that it was the wish of the the light of that consideration. Conservative party, as well as that of the Labour party and the Liberal Democrats, that the Kelly proposals Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD): It sounds to should be the subject of legislation before the election. me that what the Secretary of State is really saying is That seemed to be the purview of the Leader of the that, in his judgment, the pre-legislative scrutiny process Opposition when he spoke on the Loyal Address. 817 Constitutional Reform and Governance 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and Governance 818 Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): Members around the House who object to the programme The Lord Chancellor will know that I have tabled two motion. My right hon. Friend the Member for North-West very important new clauses on ending discrimination Hampshire (Sir George Young)suggested to the Secretary against Catholics and women in our constitution. He is of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor that we should on the record as supporting those provisions, but they have two days on Report to reflect both the insufficiency seem unlikely to be reached. Does he recognise that to of time that we had had to consider amendments properly avoid the complaints that are made about the Report in Committee on the Floor of the House, and the fact stage of every Government Bill, there is real merit in the that we are also now exposing ourselves to a further raft proposals of the Wright Committee, which can be found of Government amendments—[Interruption.] I detect in amendment (a) to motion 67, in the future business that the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) section of the Order Paper, which we will debate on wishes to intervene. Thursday? Will he indicate whether he can see real merit in supporting such proposals to stop the demonisation Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD) indicated of the Government happening on Report? dissent.

Mr. Speaker: Order. Before the right hon. Gentleman Mr. Grieve: The hon. Gentleman is just preparing replies, may I say that although that point is a pertinent himself. one, we are dealing with the programme motion? I do For the reasons that I have set out, this timetable is not think that we want to get too much ahead of completely unsatisfactory. I think that the Secretary of ourselves in respect of matters to be debated on Thursday. State for Justice and Lord Chancellor knows that very However, I am sure that the Secretary of State will be well in his heart. It may be that there was never a sufficiently dextrous in his reply. magical moment in the past when matters could be fully Mr. Straw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker for that guidance considered, but I seem to recall—although it was before to the hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon my time here—that my late father’s experience in the (Dr. Harris). However we allocate time—and we might House was that it was common for the Report stage of a be able to achieve a situation in which more time is Bill to go through the night if that was necessary to made available for the consideration of Bills—there conclude the business and enable amendments to be would not be sufficient time to consider every proposal considered. for every Bill. There has never been sufficient time We have abandoned that, yet we have also just come for that. The hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills back from a 10-day period when the House was not (Mr. Shepherd), who has sat in the House for as long as sitting, for which we came in for rather a lot of public I have, will recall the frustration that he, I and others criticism. However, if this Bill were really important—and felt when there was no programming. It is a fact of life given the imminence of an election and the urgency of and, I am afraid, of a ticking clock. With that in mind, I implementing Kelly—there is no reason why we could commend this excellent programme motion to the House not have forgone some of that break to get an extra day and hope that we can get on to the business. or two for our consideration. I am very mindful that, in every debate on programme 4.23 pm motions, the Government say, “Well, if only you didn’t Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con): This is the debate the programme motion, you’d have a bit more sixth programme motion that we have had for this Bill, time to debate the Bill.” That illustrates the powerlessness which is being taken on the Floor of the House because of this House in the face of the Executive, which is it is a constitutional Bill. When I was first elected to this something that urgently needs reform. I hope and believe place, I understood that the reason why such Bills were that an incoming Conservative Government will make taken on the Floor of the House was to enable all MPs that reform their first priority. who wished to participate to do so and to enable the Bill In the meantime, this motion is entirely unsatisfactory. to be exposed to the fullest possible scrutiny. That I strongly imagine that it will be objected to, and we will simply has not happened with this Bill. Anyone who join in that objection. looks at the record of the Committee proceedings will see that on each day of our considerations we were 4.27 pm unable to consider some parts of the Bill at all because of the knives that were imposed. In many cases, important Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I do proposals that were tabled by hon. Members simply not believe that we need to wait for a mythical incoming were not reached. Conservative Government to bring in the reform that Now the Bill has reached Report, but that is in itself the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) unusual with a Bill that has been taken on the Floor of mentioned. We can do the job by approving the motions the House. It is, of course, a reflection of the number of before us on Thursday, and I hope that we will. amendments that the Government have tabled. If they In one of his masterful interventions, the Lord Chancellor had not tabled those amendments, we would not be said that the purpose of the programme motion was to having a Report stage on the Floor of the House for a ensure that there was sufficient time to debate important constitutional measure. One has only to look at the matters—in the same way that it was King Herod’s Order Paper to see that we have not the slightest prospect purpose to ensure and promote the welfare of children. of getting through the different groupings. Indeed, some The purpose of this programme motion, as with all of the groupings, particularly those containing Government such motions tabled by this Government, is to prevent amendments relating to Ministers and the civil service, discussion and debate in this House. These motions do undoubtedly will not be considered at all. For those not arise out of discussions between the various parties reasons, therefore, it is not surprising that there are hon. in the House, let alone those Back-Bench Members 819 Constitutional Reform and Governance 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and Governance 820 Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Bill (Programme) (No. 6) [Mr. David Heath] and I think that it will probably enjoy the consent of all free-thinking individuals and Opposition parties in the with a real interest in debate on Report: they are imposed House. It would create a better debate, and it would by the Executive to prevent debate, and that is exactly show that the Justice Secretary accepts that in constitutional what we have today. matters in particular, Parliament has a special role to The Lord Chancellor has talked about all the scrutiny play. If Parliament wishes to discuss, while remaining in and discussion that the Bill has received, but which Bill order, serious proposals tabled by the Government, does he mean? Surely not the one before us today, which time should be made available to do so. has been massively amended by the Government since I take that more charitable view, because the Justice its inception. It is a different Bill—in fact, it becomes a Secretary, by the standards of Labour Ministers, shows different Bill every time we arrive to debate it further, more courtesy to the House and brings more to it than because the Government put in whole new sections and many of his colleagues, which is to be welcomed and groups of amendments. encouraged. If he wishes to show that there is any The point is not about whether there is an urgency to semblance of understanding in the Government of the bringing in the Kelly reforms. Of course there is, but we need for proper parliamentary scrutiny and debate, and know that. We have time to bring those reforms in, but for Ministers to show full courtesy to the House, this is they are not what we will be prevented from debating a marvellous opportunity to do so. This is an important today. What we will be prevented from debating are the constitutional measure, and we have been asked to later amendments and new clauses, many of which have consider more than 50 pages of detailed amendments, been tabled properly by hon. Members who, although many of them introduced by the Government themselves. they may not be on their respective Front Benches, In many cases, this is the first opportunity that we have think that they have important matters for the House to had to discuss the detail and, in some instances, it is the debate. first chance we have had to discuss the principles involved. Those are the amendments that, yet again, will not be It is a long-standing tradition, that predates this reached. They were not reached in Committee either, Government, that constitutional matters are debated and I believe that this is a scandalous way to bring a on the Floor of the House, and reasonable time is made constitutional Bill before the House. That is why I shall available so that Members can feel that justice has been certainly oppose this programme motion today, and done. why I shall invite my right hon. and hon. Friends to do Quite a few Members are interested in the Bill in its the same. entirety, but there are not a huge number of them in the House today who are interested in these particular 4.29 pm proposals, so I urge the Justice Secretary to do the decent thing, remove the guillotine motion, and allow Dr. Tony Wright (Cannock Chase) (Lab): I wanted to those who are in the Chamber to have their say. We agree with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State might finish by 10 pm, if he is right in thinking that he for Justice that there was no golden age, but in the age in has chosen sufficient time. If, by any chance, he is which we live, this measure has become a Christmas tree slightly in error, let us run on and do the job properly. Bill of large proportions. We are used to such Bills, but this is a Christmas tree Bill for which there is no Christmas, which makes it even more unusual. My right 4.33 pm hon. Friend prayed in aid the Public Administration Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): Committee as a progenitor of the Bill, and in a sense, It is not right to be in this position for three reasons. that is right. However, our Committee introduced a raft First, in a parliamentary democracy with one elected of amendments, virtually none of which have been House, is it right that Government legislative proposals accepted. Some of those amendments reflected years of on any Bill, let alone a constitutional Bill, should proceed work by the Committee on these issues, particularly all the way through Parliament without being scrutinised aspects of the civil service. It was not possible to accept and debated by Parliament, or that they should be put them in Committee, and now it is not possible to accept to the vote en bloc as Government amendments? That is them on Report. What does that say about the relationship not appropriate in the single elected House or in a of the House to its Committees, if that is what happens parliamentary democracy. That is not something of when a Bill is introduced? Although I agree that there which anyone in the House should be proud—it is a was certainly no golden age, I think that there could be complete failure by the House and Members regarding a better age in which some of these deficiencies could be their ability to do their fundamental job, which is to remedied, and I hope that that age will come quite soon. hold the Executive to account and scrutinise legislation. Secondly, we always have arguments about the time 4.31 pm for debate proposed in programme motions, and we Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): I would like wonder why we are in this position. We are in this to be a little more charitable to the Justice Secretary position for several reasons, but the main one is that the than the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome Government decide what we debate. We are therefore in (Mr. Heath), as I am prepared to accept that he would a bizarre position whereby the Government decide, as like to ensure sufficient time for the Bill. I therefore have they have with this Bill, which bits of their programme a modest proposal: drop the programme motion, and the elected House gets to debate and vote on. That is let us make progress on the matters before us. If, by any not a parliamentary democracy; that is the Executive chance, we have not quite finished at 10 pm, why can we pushing legislation through the only elected House. It is not table an extraordinary resolution of the House to not a surprise therefore that the unelected House feels carry on for another two or three hours until the that it has to do considerable work. That is not satisfactory, business is completed? That is a very modest proposal, either, but despite all its flaws it is better than nothing. 821 Constitutional Reform and Governance 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and Governance 822 Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Surely a better way forward, especially on such Bills that need to be debated. I have two petitions at 10 o’clock as the one before us, would be much more consultation tonight, but I would be very happy to present them at on the time that is needed and the use of time elsewhere 4 o’clock tomorrow morning, if necessary. in the week, when business collapses early. The Library In earlier Parliaments, such as the 1992 to 1997 and the Clerks have identified huge chunks of days on Parliament, we used to stay up all night, if necessary, in which business collapses early, and that time would be order to get better legislation and properly debate the available to extend our debates on Report. motions before us. Today’s final group of amendments In addition, the Lord Chancellor should understand, contains about 70 new clauses and amendments to be in respect of his answer to me, that there is a proposal debated in what will end up being only a few minutes. from the Wright Committee for speech-length restrictions They are on matters such as the conduct of referendums on Report. We could get through the business that is and elections and public order. The hon. Member for before us much more quickly without the need for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris) mentioned knives, or at least by having knives for any proposal that new clauses 2 and 3, which he has tabled, regarding was multi-consenting, as it were, without the need for royal marriages and succession to the Crown. Those are them late in proceedings in order to get through the Bill. most important matters, but they will not be debated There is a holistic solution, and it could be made at all. available if we reform, but even if we do not reform The Bill has grown like Topsy since it first came there are ways in which we can improve such matters. It before the House, and it is nothing like the Bill that we is extremely sad that critical matters of parliamentary first debated. For that reason, too, we need to spend reform and matters relating to referendums and to sufficient time examining the new clauses. That is why I discrimination against Catholics and women in our oppose the programme motion and hope that we will be constitution, to which I referred earlier, will not even be able to extend our debate so that we can properly debated—especially when they are the subject of consider the important matters before us. Government amendments, which will be voted through. This is probably the 12th time that I have made such 4.40 pm points on Report, and the House should not have to suffer that. The solution is in our hands not just today, Mr. Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con): I but on Thursday, and I hope that we take it. I hope also have noticed with a sinking heart that everyone has that on Thursday, as a consequence of hearing such referred to this as a programme motion. That tells us complaints so often, the Lord Chancellor will find how, by usage and custom, we have come to accept himself in the right Lobby when it comes to a full-time something that is wholly unacceptable. In a more robust permanent cure that involves not a complete shortage age, which the Secretary of State will remember, as we of time but more consensual undertakings and the came to the House on the same day, it was cried out that reform of our procedures to ensure that we do our key such motions were guillotine motions, and they were job properly. shouted against. The public at large understand the purpose of a 4.37 pm guillotine—to cut off debate at a certain point. It is as simple as that. The word “programme”, and the language Lynne Jones (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I noticed that surrounds it, suggests that this is a careful form of that the Secretary of State seemed to be having consultations art, in which all the considerations are weighed up, and during the speech by the hon. Member for Oxford, West that the important issues are discussed for individual and Abingdon (Dr. Harris), so I hope that my right Members to balance. But who determines what will be hon. Friend will respond positively to the suggestions discussed? It is, of course, the Executive—the Crown—who that the right hon. Member for Wokingham(Mr. Redwood) control the business that comes before the House and made. I share colleagues’ concerns about the inadequacies set down these guillotine motions. There is no serious of this Report stage and many others in which I have intent whatever to enable us to debate all the amendments felt forced to vote against the Government on programme on the paper, should that be our wish. motions. The concept that everyone in the House could participate The Government set up the Wright Committee, and I in debates on a constitutional Bill was inviolate until, I very much hope that on Thursday all parts of the believe, the Single European Act. There were no guillotine House will agree to the Committee’s significant proposals. motions. Now we accept a new guillotine motion each I hope also that, having set up that Committee, the day to ensure that the Government control everything Government will accept the spirit of its recommendations and that proceedings will happen to a timetable. For and act accordingly this afternoon. many reasons, which the Secretary of State was quite right to point out, none of us wants to sit here and toil 4.38 pm through the night as repetitive speeches are made, but Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I, like all other that was not the point in question. He said that this contributors to the debate so far, rise to speak against motion will assist us in debating the business of the the programme motion. We have before us a constitutional House, no less. That is like the prosecution in a court Bill that is far-reaching and of great importance to the saying, “In order to assist the defence, we will deny House and to our constituents. It is of fundamental them anything other than 10 minutes to present their importance, and we need to debate it thoroughly and case.” properly, so I am exasperated by this programme motion, If we think about the balance of the argument, what which is far too tight. I support the suggestion of an is the purpose of the House? It is to test the propositions extraordinary resolution of the House to continue beyond that the Executive put in front of us, but there are now 10 pm, if we need to, in order to debate all the clauses knives, as well, a new construction that does not even 823 Constitutional Reform and Governance 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and Governance 824 Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Bill (Programme) (No. 6) [Mr. Richard Shepherd] Mr. Straw: If the right hon. Gentleman will excuse me, I will not give way. allow the role of a debate to determine itself naturally. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly As a new departure or refinement, they have been Oak (Lynne Jones) is back. I am perfectly happy, as a imposed alongside the concept of guillotining. It is a loyal member of the Government, to be here till 11 o’clock, most unsatisfactory process, but we wish it upon ourselves midnight or 1 o’clock in the morning to vote for every time a huge Government majority marches through the Government. I look forward to her—in a new the Lobby to impose the will of the Executive. Yet the incarnation—voting for the Government in the small division between Back-Bench Members in all parts of hours with the same enthusiasm that I have showed and the House and the Executive grows. continue to show. When do we have the opportunity to tease out the Government’s argument, and see them win an argument Lynne Jones: I must tell my right hon. Friend that through debate? That is the other consequence—the most of the time, I vote for the Government, and I will Government themselves are often cut out. That is a do so, if it is appropriate, whatever time the vote is matter of no consequence to them, because their objective called. is merely to have the vote. That is why the House is now scorned. Mr. Straw: Methinks my hon. Friend doth protest The hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon too much, because I was not saying anything different. (Dr. Harris) talked about his amendments, and many Lastly, reference was made to the number of pages of Members have been frustrated in the same way. In amendments. The Government’s proposals on a wholly saying that, I notice too that people look forward to new subject—the Dacre review—run to three pages. Thursday, as if it will change that situation, but none of The other Government proposals have been tabled in it will change, and we need not think that a new Government response to the concern expressed in earlier debates in will necessarily change things either. The convenience the House, for example on Kelly and protests around to the Executive is so great and the damage to the Parliament, which has certainly been the subject of House of Commons is even greater, yet this is the only huge and extensive debate. I commend the motion to democratic institution in this country that determines the House. what the law should be. Question put. I shall therefore gladly vote against this guillotine motion, and I hope we all remember that our The House divided: Ayes 272, Noes 226. subservience—on both sides of the House—has brought Division No. 92] [4.48 pm this Parliament low to the ethos of executive government. AYES 4.45 pm Abbott, Ms Diane Campbell, Mr. Alan Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle) (Lab): I, too, shall vote Ainger, Nick Campbell, Mr. Ronnie against the programme motion. There is simply not Allen, Mr. Graham Caton, Mr. Martin enough time for us properly to consider all the proposed Anderson, Mr. David Cawsey, Mr. Ian Armstrong, rh Hilary Clark, Ms Katy new clauses and amendments, including the proposals Atkins, Charlotte Clark, Paul from the Select Committee on Public Administration, Austin, Mr. Ian Clarke, rh Mr. Charles which is chaired so ably by my friend from Cannock Austin, John Clarke, rh Mr. Tom Chase (Dr. Wright). Those proposals are in the fifth Bailey, Mr. Adrian Clelland, Mr. David group, which includes my proposal—new clause 7—on Bain, Mr. William Clwyd, rh Ann the Ashcroft scandal, which is supported by 84 Members Balls, rh Ed Coaker, Mr. Vernon of Parliament. I have made it clear that there are Banks, Gordon Coffey, Ann Members of Parliament down the other place who are Barlow, Ms Celia Cohen, Harry here under false pretences, and it is not acceptable for Battle, rh John Connarty, Michael me to vote for a programme motion that extinguishes Bayley, Hugh Cook, Frank any possibility of considering new clause 7, so I shall be Beckett, rh Margaret Cooper, Rosie voting against it. Begg, Miss Anne Cooper, rh Yvette Bell, Sir Stuart Cousins, Jim Benton, Mr. Joe Crausby, Mr. David 4.46 pm Berry, Roger Creagh, Mary Mr. Straw: I urge the programme motion on the Betts, Mr. Clive Cruddas, Jon House. I understand the House’s frustration about the time, Blackman, Liz Cryer, Mrs. Ann but I also repeat the point that however we cut the time, Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Cummings, John it will always be limited. Blears, rh Hazel Cunningham, Mr. Jim Borrow, Mr. David S. Cunningham, Tony I look forward to the votes on Thursday, but if we are Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben David, Mr. Wayne going to move to more open-ended debates on Report, Brown, Lyn Davidson, Mr. Ian in Committee and on the Floor of the House, we will Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Davies, Mr. Quentin have to have restrictions on the time that individual Brown, Mr. Russell Dean, Mrs. Janet Members have to speak. Otherwise, we will have the Bryant, Chris Denham, rh Mr. John kind of filibustering in which I participated very happily— Buck, Ms Karen Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit but not to any great effect—in opposition. That was not Burgon, Colin Dismore, Mr. Andrew particularly productive, and it led to more severe guillotines Burnham, rh Andy Dobbin, Jim than anything we have faced under programming. Butler, Ms Dawn Dobson, rh Frank Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Doran, Mr. Frank Mr. Redwood rose— Cairns, David Dowd, Jim 825 Constitutional Reform and Governance 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and Governance 826 Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Drew, Mr. David Laxton, Mr. Bob Seabeck, Alison Todd, Mr. Mark Durkan, Mark Lazarowicz, Mark Shaw, Jonathan Touhig, rh Mr. Don Eagle, Angela Lepper, David Sheerman, Mr. Barry Trickett, Jon Eagle, Maria Levitt, Tom Sheridan, Jim Truswell, Mr. Paul Efford, Clive Lewis, Mr. Ivan Simon, Mr. Siôn Turner, Dr. Desmond Ellman, Mrs. Louise Linton, Martin Simpson, Alan Turner, Mr. Neil Engel, Natascha Lloyd, Tony Skinner, Mr. Dennis Twigg, Derek Ennis, Jeff Love, Mr. Andrew Slaughter, Mr. Andy Ussher, Kitty Etherington, Bill Mactaggart, Fiona Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Vaz, rh Keith Farrelly, Paul Malik, Mr. Shahid Smith, Ms Angela C. Walley, Joan Field, rh Mr. Frank Mallaber, Judy (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Waltho, Lynda Fitzpatrick, Jim Mann, John Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) Ward, Claire Flello, Mr. Robert Marris, Rob Smith, Geraldine Watson, Mr. Tom Flint, rh Caroline Marsden, Mr. Gordon Smith, rh Jacqui Watts, Mr. Dave Flynn, Paul Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Snelgrove, Anne Whitehead, Dr. Alan Follett, Barbara Martlew, Mr. Eric Soulsby, Sir Peter Wicks, rh Malcolm Foster, Mr. Michael McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Southworth, Helen Williams, rh Mr. Alan (Worcester) McCarthy, Kerry Spellar, rh Mr. John Williams, Mrs. Betty Foster, Michael Jabez McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Wills, rh Mr. Michael (Hastings and Rye) McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Stewart, Ian Wilson, Phil Francis, Dr. Hywel McFall, rh John Stoate, Dr. Howard Winnick, Mr. David Gardiner, Barry McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Strang, rh Dr. Gavin Wood, Mike Gerrard, Mr. Neil McIsaac, Shona Straw, rh Mr. Jack Woolas, Mr. Phil Gilroy, Linda McKechin, Ann Stringer, Graham Wright, Mr. Anthony Griffith, Nia McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Stuart, Ms Gisela Wright, David Griffiths, Nigel Merron, Gillian Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Wright, Mr. Iain Grogan, Mr. John Michael, rh Alun Tami, Mark Wright, Dr. Tony Hain, rh Mr. Peter Miliband, rh Edward Thomas, Mr. Gareth Wyatt, Derek Hall, Mr. Mike Miller, Andrew Thornberry, Emily Tellers for the Ayes: Hall, Patrick Mitchell, Mr. Austin Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Mr. Bob Blizzard and Hamilton, Mr. David Moffatt, Laura Tipping, Paddy Steve McCabe Hanson, rh Mr. David Mole, Chris Harman, rh Ms Harriet Morden, Jessica Harris, Mr. Tom Morgan, Julie NOES Henderson, Mr. Doug Mudie, Mr. George Afriyie, Adam Clegg, rh Mr. Nick Hendrick, Mr. Mark Mullin, Mr. Chris Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Cormack, Sir Patrick Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Munn, Meg Alexander, Danny Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Heppell, Mr. John Murphy, Mr. Denis Amess, Mr. David Crabb, Mr. Stephen Hesford, Stephen Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Curry, rh Mr. David Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Atkinson, Mr. Peter Davey, Mr. Edward Hill, rh Keith Naysmith, Dr. Doug Bacon, Mr. Richard Davies, Mr. Dai Hillier, Meg O’Brien, rh Mr. Mike Baker, Norman Davies, David T. C. Hodge, rh Margaret O’Hara, Mr. Edward Baldry, Tony (Monmouth) Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Olner, Mr. Bill Baron, Mr. John Davies, Philip Hoey, Kate Osborne, Sandra Barrett, John Davis, rh David Hood, Mr. Jim Palmer, Dr. Nick Beith, rh Sir Alan Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Pearson, Ian Bellingham, Mr. Henry Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen Hope, Phil Plaskitt, Mr. James Beresford, Sir Paul Duncan, Alan Humble, Mrs. Joan Pope, Mr. Greg Binley, Mr. Brian Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain Hutton, rh Mr. John Pound, Stephen Bone, Mr. Peter Dunne, Mr. Philip Iddon, Dr. Brian Prentice, Bridget Boswell, Mr. Tim Evans, Mr. Nigel Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Prescott, rh Mr. John Bottomley, Peter Evennett, Mr. David Jackson, Glenda Primarolo, rh Dawn Brady, Mr. Graham Fabricant, Michael James, Mrs. Siân C. Prosser, Gwyn Brazier, Mr. Julian Fallon, Mr. Michael Jenkins, Mr. Brian Purchase, Mr. Ken Breed, Mr. Colin Farron, Tim Johnson, Ms Diana R. Purnell, rh James Brokenshire, James Field, Mr. Mark Jones, Helen Rammell, Bill Brooke, Annette Foster, Mr. Don Jones, Mr. Kevan Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Browne, Mr. Jeremy Fox, Dr. Liam Jones, Mr. Martyn Reed, Mr. Andy Browning, Angela Francois, Mr. Mark Jowell, rh Tessa Reed, Mr. Jamie Bruce, rh Malcolm Fraser, Christopher Joyce, Mr. Eric Reid, rh John Burrowes, Mr. David Garnier, Mr. Edward Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Riordan, Mrs. Linda Burstow, Mr. Paul Gauke, Mr. David Keeble, Ms Sally Robertson, John Burt, Alistair Gibb, Mr. Nick Keeley, Barbara Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Burt, Lorely Gidley, Sandra Keen, Alan Rooney, Mr. Terry Butterfill, Sir John Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Kelly, rh Ruth Roy, Mr. Frank Cable, Dr. Vincent Goldsworthy, Julia Kemp, Mr. Fraser Roy, Lindsay Cameron, rh Mr. David Goodman, Mr. Paul Kidney, Mr. David Ruane, Chris Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Goodwill, Mr. Robert Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Ruddock, Joan Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Gove, Michael Kumar, Dr. Ashok Russell, Christine Carswell, Mr. Douglas Gray, Mr. James Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Salter, Martin Clappison, Mr. James Grayling, Chris Lammy, rh Mr. David Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth Green, Damian 827 Constitutional Reform and Governance 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and Governance 828 Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Bill (Programme) (No. 6) Greening, Justine Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Penrose, John Swire, Mr. Hugo Grieve, Mr. Dominic Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Pickles, Mr. Eric Syms, Mr. Robert Gummer, rh Mr. John Lamb, Norman Prentice, Mr. Gordon Tapsell, Sir Peter Hague, rh Mr. William Lancaster, Mr. Mark Price, Adam Taylor, Matthew Hammond, Stephen Lansley, Mr. Andrew Prisk, Mr. Mark Taylor, Dr. Richard Hancock, Mr. Mike Laws, Mr. David Pritchard, Mark Teather, Sarah Hands, Mr. Greg Leech, Mr. John Pugh, Dr. John Timpson, Mr. Edward Harper, Mr. Mark Leigh, Mr. Edward Randall, Mr. John Turner, Mr. Andrew Harris, Dr. Evan Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Redwood, rh Mr. John Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Harvey, Nick Lewis, Dr. Julian Reid, Mr. Alan Vaizey, Mr. Edward Hayes, Mr. John Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Rennie, Willie Vara, Mr. Shailesh Heald, Mr. Oliver Lidington, Mr. David Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Viggers, Sir Peter Heath, Mr. David Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Robathan, Mr. Andrew Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Hemming, John Luff, Peter Robertson, Hugh Walker, Mr. Charles Hendry, Charles Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Robertson, Mr. Laurence Wallace, Mr. Ben Herbert, Nick MacNeil, Mr. Angus Rogerson, Dan Walter, Mr. Robert Hoban, Mr. Mark Main, Anne Rosindell, Andrew Waterson, Mr. Nigel Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas Malins, Mr. Humfrey Rowen, Paul Watkinson, Angela Hollobone, Mr. Philip Mason, John Russell, Bob Webb, Steve Holloway, Mr. Adam Maude, rh Mr. Francis Sanders, Mr. Adrian Weir, Mr. Mike Holmes, Paul May, rh Mrs. Theresa Scott, Mr. Lee Whittingdale, Mr. John Hopkins, Kelvin McDonnell, John Selous, Andrew Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Howard, rh Mr. Michael McIntosh, Miss Anne Shapps, Grant Wiggin, Bill Howarth, David McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Shepherd, Mr. Richard Willetts, Mr. David Howell, John Miller, Mrs. Maria Simmonds, Mark Williams, Mark Hunt, Mr. Jeremy Milton, Anne Simpson, Mr. Keith Williams, Stephen Hunter, Mark Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Smith, Sir Robert Willott, Jenny Hurd, Mr. Nick Moore, Mr. Michael Soames, Mr. Nicholas Wilshire, Mr. David Jack, rh Mr. Michael Moss, Mr. Malcolm Spicer, Sir Michael Wilson, Mr. Rob Jackson, Mr. Stewart Mulholland, Greg Spink, Bob Winterton, Ann Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Murrison, Dr. Andrew Spring, Mr. Richard Wishart, Pete Jones, Mr. David Newmark, Mr. Brooks Steen, Mr. Anthony Yeo, Mr. Tim Jones, Lynne O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Streeter, Mr. Gary Young, rh Sir George Kawczynski, Daniel Oaten, Mr. Mark Stuart, Mr. Graham Younger-Ross, Richard Keetch, Mr. Paul Öpik, Lembit Stunell, Andrew Tellers for the Noes: Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Osborne, Mr. George Swayne, Mr. Desmond Mr. Roger Williams and Key, Robert Paice, Mr. James Swinson, Jo Jeremy Wright Kirkbride, Miss Julie Paterson, Mr. Owen Knight, rh Mr. Greg Pelling, Mr. Andrew Kramer, Susan Penning, Mike Question accordingly agreed to. 829 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 830 Governance Bill Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill Dacre, a distinguished journalist and the editor-in-chief of the Daily Mail group of newspapers, who worked Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Committee with Professor Sir David Cannadine, a distinguished [Relevant documents: Report of the Joint Committee on historian, and Sir Joseph Pilling, a distinguished public the Draft Constitutional Renewal Bill, Session 2007-08, servant. I am grateful for the care and interest that they HC 551-I and -II, and the Government response, Cm 7690. took in conducting their review. I dare say that it is to be Tenth Report from the Public Administration Select expected of a review written by a senior journalist and Committee, Session 2007-08, on Constitutional Renewal: an eminent historian, but, in addition to containing Draft Bill and White Paper, HC 499, and the Government good recommendations, it is a very interesting and response, Cm 7688. Fourth Report from the Joint Committee informative read. I commend it to the House, which I on Human Rights, Session 2009-10, on Legislative Scrutiny: do not do in terms of every review conducted on behalf Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill; Video Recordings of the Government. This one is deeply informative. Bill, HC 249. The Scottish Parliament has passed a We have considered the review’s recommendations Legislative Consent Resolution in respect of this Bill. carefully. On 10 June, my right hon. Friend the Prime Copies of the Resolution are available in the Vote Office.] Minister announced to the House the Government’s intention to move to a 20-year rule. The Dacre review New Clause 22 debated whether we should move to a 20-year rule or a 15-year rule and, on balance, it came down in favour of TRANSFER OF RECORDS TO PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE a 15-year rule. We considered the matter in some detail ‘(1) In section 3 of the Public Records Act 1958 (selection and and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister announced preservation of public records)— our intention to move to a 20-year rule. There was a (a) in subsection (4) (transfer to Public Record Office or to subsequent period for further consultation, and last other appointed place of deposit of public records selected for permanent preservation), for “thirty week, we published our response to the review in full. years” substitute “20 years”, and That is now before the House. (b) after that subsection insert— The key proposals are to reduce the 30-year rule to “(4A) Until the end of the period of 10 years beginning with 20 years, to amend the Freedom of Information Act 2000 the commencement of section [Transfer of records to Public and to reduce the time frame within which certain Record Office] of the Constitutional Reform and Governance exemptions can apply to the 20-year period. New clause 22 Act 2010, subsection (4) has effect subject to any order made will implement those proposals and it will amend the under subsection (2) of that section.” Public Records Act 1958. Those proposals will thus (2) The Lord Chancellor may by order make transitional, provide earlier access by 10 years to a wide range of transitory or saving provision in connection with the coming into material, and it is the next step towards greater force of subsection (1)(a). transparency—a process that began under this Government (3) An order under subsection (2) may in particular— with the passage of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. (a) provide for the time within which any records are to be Such a move involves careful preparation. It is often transferred to the Public Record Office or other place of deposit referred to in section 3(4) of the Public assumed that officials simply put the records on the Records Act 1958, and shelves and open them. As I know, not least from my (b) make different provision in relation to records of time in the Foreign Office, a huge effort is put in by different descriptions. historians and archivists to go through all the records carefully to ensure that all that can be made publicly (4) An order under this section is to be made by statutory instrument. available are made publicly available, while also ensuring that some are held back in conformity with public (5) A statutory instrument containing an order under this section is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of records legislation. The same is true of every other either House of Parliament.’.—(Mr. Straw.) Government Department. Brought up, and read the First time. Because the proposal involves a big change, the Dacre review recommended a transitional period and essentially 5.2 pm proposed that until we reach the target time of 20 years, The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor in the intervening period two years’ records should be (Mr. Jack Straw): I beg to move, That the clause be read released every year to get down from the 30-year limit a Second time. to the 20-year limit. The new clause makes provision for the transitional period to be brought in by order, because Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): With this it exactly when that new time limit is introduced will need will be convenient to discuss the following: Government to be considered by Government in the next Parliament. new clause 23—Freedom of information. Dacre also recognised—as does everyone else and as Government new schedule 1—Amendments of Freedom did the House when we discussed the freedom of of Information Act 2000. information legislation—that there must be a balance Government amendment 47. between increased transparency and protecting sensitive and personal information. That is a fact of life. The Mr. Straw: These provisions give effect to the introduction of the Data Protection Act 1998 preceded Government’s response to the Dacre review of the the Freedom of Information Act 2000 by a couple of 30-year rule. The House will recall that, in October 2007, years, and one thing I believe I got right about the my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister announced an Freedom of Information Act 2000 was requiring a independent review of the 30-year rule, which generally single commissioner for both data protection, which is requires that all national records be released into the about protecting information, and for freedom of public domain after a 30-year period, save where there information, which is about its release. Some other are special exemptions. The review was chaired by Paul Administrations have two commissioners for those two 831 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 832 Governance Bill Governance Bill [Mr. Straw] affected if the information is released into the public domain. It would be a matter for the Information purposes, which can cause immense problems. This Commissioner, and then the Information Tribunal, to represents one area where a balance must be drawn. In make the final judgment. I think that that is a reasonable circumstances going beyond the protection of personal balance. information, everyone accepts that there may be arguments for protecting the information for longer than the minimum David Howarth (Cambridge) (LD): What I do not period. Bearing that in mind, schedule 1 maintains the follow is why the argument finished with 30 years. If it is time limit for certain exemptions at 30 years. purely about commercial interests, we should bear in The first exemption relates to the protection of mind that it is perfectly possible for contracts to last for commercial interests. Some contracts, particularly those longer than that. relating to large-scale infrastructure projects and Mr. Straw: Whether or not that is the case—and I procurement, can run for more than 20 years and may accept that there are some areas involving defence, for contain commercially sensitive information beyond that instance, in which exemptions may continue—there has point. not been a problem so far, and the Government have not sought in any way to use the Dacre review to restrict Mr. Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con): I access via freedom of information requests rather than am obliged. I appreciate that this is a sensitive area and to make it easier. I welcome the acceptance of 20 years as a general proposition. It is difficult, however, to see why commercial Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Given the enterprises should have the retained 30-year holdback, extension of freedom of information opportunities, in particular in the case of local authorities. What does the Secretary of State believe that there is any possible contract could a local authority enter into that special merit in parliamentary questions any more? would need protection for 30 years? If the right hon. Might some information be made available to Parliament Gentleman could build on what he started to say about that is not made available in response to an FOI request, commercial interests, particularly as affecting local or is this part of a process whereby Members of Parliament authorities, it would be helpful. Is this intended to will become just like members of the public, and submit protect defence establishments or the nuclear industry; FOI requests instead of parliamentary questions? what is the purpose behind this 30-year retention of information? Mr. Straw: That is a very important point. I have to deal with both parliamentary questions and requests Mr. Straw: I have cited large-scale infrastructure projects for information under the Freedom of Information Act, and procurement. I cannot immediately think of any and my answer to the right hon. Gentleman is that there local authority projects of such a scale or duration, but is every purpose in parliamentary questions. They have that is only because no such projects are within my to be answered by a Minister, and they have to be experience. I am sure that some exist, and it may well be answered very quickly. Occasionally there are delays, the case—although I am afraid I am not informed on but—the right hon. Gentleman will remember this from the matter—that some of the contracts entered into by his time as a Minister—a large part of my box and local authorities of all political persuasions for the those of my ministerial colleagues every night relates to longer-term provision of, for example, back-office services answering parliamentary questions. I have a daily diet last for more than 20 years. I do not feel that whether of questions from, for instance, the hon. and learned commercially sensitive information should be protected Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) and his colleagues. while the contract lasts should be simply a matter of I do not complain about that in the least—it is his job. I chance, but that does not prevent proper scrutiny of the do my best to ensure that the questions are answered. arrangements by, for instance, auditors—perhaps by Normally, the reason for the delay is that I do not think the Audit Service. that we are providing full information, not the reverse. I have just been provided with further and better particulars. I am happy to say that I knew this bit 5.15 pm already and was going to mention it, but I am deeply Occasionally, hon. Members put in an FOI request if grateful none the less. they feel that they are being blocked by a Minister. In My constituency contains a large new hospital which my experience—obviously I cannot speak directly for is under a PFI contract which will run for more than other colleagues—that happens only when there is a 20 years, and I believe that the same applies to some of really strong case in the public interest for not making the new prison contracts. [Interruption.] An hon. Member the information available. In that case, there is of course asks, from a sedentary position, “Why should we not an opportunity to appeal to the Information Commissioner. know about them?” This is a qualified exemption. That I would not recommend making routine FOI requests is what it says here, and what I was going to say in any because they take much longer to process. There is no event. requirement to answer such a request in a couple of A balancing test will still be required. We are not days, as there is to answer a question tabled to the talking about an absolute exemption from day one until Secretary of State under our Rolls-Royce system. Such the end of the period. What we are discussing is whether a FOI request goes to someone, inevitably at a lower there should come a moment when the information is level, and there is a maximum time of 20 working days, automatically released. I think it reasonable for parties a month, to provide the requested information. Sometimes to such contracts, if they are still in force, to be able to that limit is exceeded; it can take a lot longer. I accept, argue that their commercial interests—the interests of however, that FOI has opened up the ability to question the public authority on one side and those of the Government. In the old days, which the right hon. commercial organisation on the other—may be adversely Gentleman will remember, when I was working as an 833 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 834 Governance Bill Governance Bill adviser, Ministers could simply block questions—they and sustained in future. People will be deeply suspicious would put a block on any further answers. Nothing about a change such as this. No one in Northern Ireland could be done about that in that alleged golden age. appears to have been consulted about it. It appears to That time has gone. I have had to say once or twice to have been made completely on the whim and the wheeze officials, “There’s no point trying to block this, otherwise of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. we will get an FOI request.” My approach has just been to answer the question, and life has gone on. I hope that Mr. Straw: I will come back to that in more detail in that is helpful. my closing remarks. I need to make some progress because other colleagues I now come to the proposals we have made in respect wish to speak. Information affecting relations between of the monarchy. the United Kingdom Government and the devolved Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle) (Lab): First, may I ask Administrations may also be sensitive for a longer my friend about the records of the honours scrutiny period, and it is right that that should remain protected committee? I understand that no records have been beyond the 20-year point, where it is in the public destroyed but that civil servants are looking at the interest to do so. criteria for selecting those that will be preserved in the A related point is that we want to continue to protect national archives. In a briefing that I have received from information that would be prejudicial to the work of the Campaign for Freedom of Information, I am told the Executive Committee of Northern Ireland, or which that the honours exemption would continue for 60 years. would otherwise prejudice the effective conduct of public Are the Government telling the House that that is affairs in Northern Ireland. I refer to one of the most indeed the case; that our successors will have to wait a extraordinary things that has happened in my 31 years couple of generations before they can find out what the in this House. I came here a month after Airey Neave honours scrutiny committee has said about certain was murdered on the ramp up from the car park. Like individuals? many hon. Members, I remember the terrible terrorist outrages that took place in the 1980s and early 1990s. Mr. Straw: When we were discussing freedom of Indeed I was caught up in one in the 1970s. Then, information between 1998 and 2000, it was agreed that dramatically, following painstaking work, originally by records relating to honours should be subject to a clear Sir John Major and his Government, including the exemption, for reasons I think everybody understands. right hon. and learned Member for Devizes (Mr. Ancram), I do not recall Paul Dacre making any suggestions to and under Tony Blair, huge progress has been made. the contrary, so there is nothing in these proposals that Northern Ireland is completely different now. That changes that either way. could not have taken place—I am glad to see the right The provisions relating to the monarchy were presaged hon. Member for North Antrim (Rev. Ian Paisley) in his in the Government’s response, which was published at place—without great statesmanship by both sides of the end of last week. We are blessed in this country by a the confessional divide in Northern Ireland and without constitutional monarchy of the highest standards. Whatever the possibility of secret, entirely private negotiations. It turmoil there might have been in our body politic, is important that there should be a record of those. It is above it all, and held in continuing high respect, is the also important that they should not be released for a position of the sovereign. There were lacunae—I confess long time. that I am the Minister responsible—not in the intention of the Freedom of Information Act, but in its drafting Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I note that my right that have raised some uncertainties about the protection hon. Friend has referred to the provisions in new schedule of the monarchy in relation to national records. Everybody 1 that refer directly to Northern Ireland. From whom acknowledges that there is a profound difference between did the Government seek clearance or agreement for those who hold public office because they are volunteers those extended exemptions? If it was just the Northern and those who are members of the royal family, particularly Ireland Executive, whose affairs are already safeguarded the senior members—the sovereign and the heirs to the from freedom of information and other things anyway, throne—who, by definition, serve for a lifetime. It seems why do the provisions of the new schedule extend to the to me entirely reasonable—I say this notwithstanding Northern Ireland Assembly, Northern Ireland Departments the fact that I am a Minister who has served for a longer and any Northern Ireland public authority? period than many—for us to bring the 30-year rule down to 20. But it is of great importance that we protect Mr. Straw: I did not seek clearance directly from any the political impartiality of the monarchy, the sovereign’s of the bodies in Northern Ireland. I took the advice of right and duty to counsel, to encourage and to warn the my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Government and the right of the heir to the throne to Ireland. His advice is and has been very careful on this. be instructed on the business of government in preparation I will seek to get more information on the matter that for the time when they assume the monarchy. These rely my hon. Friend raises when I come to my winding-up on well established and respected conventions of speech, if that is helpful. confidentiality. Mark Durkan: Just to clarify, I fully accept what my Mr. Shepherd: I am not sure whether it is an enigma right hon. Friend has said about the contribution of the or not, but the Secretary of State was correct in saying right hon. Member for North Antrim (Rev. Ian Paisley) that the institution is held in great esteem because it is in latter years, but some of us were deeply involved in non-controversial and does not enter into the public putting agreements in place that were about ensuring debate. Some members of the royal family, however, are that we had accountable, transparent Government. passionate members of society who lobby for objectives. Transparency is as important as equality and inclusion That is where there is a delicacy in this matter. We must in terms of ensuring that public confidence is maintained maintain clarity in our constitutional arrangements, 835 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 836 Governance Bill Governance Bill [Mr. Richard Shepherd] Mr. Gordon Prentice: But there would be a public interest in disclosure if the heir to the throne, or the and it is an essential key to the stability of the whole second in line, were to intervene and change public institution of the monarchy that the sovereign and their policy quite significantly. Surely we should know about successors do not enter into controversy. that. Mr. Straw: I appreciate the point the hon. Gentleman makes. If he examines the proposals in new schedule 1, 5.30 pm however, he will see that a distinction is drawn. An absolute Mr. Straw: There is a balance to be struck. My view is exemption is proposed for the monarch, the heir to the that the right balance is encapsulated by the provisions throne and the second in line, and a qualified exemption that we make. I seriously say to my hon. Friend that is proposed for other members of the royal family. there is no way that members of the royal family can It became clear that there were lacunae in the drafting change public policy. They may have opinions, and they of the Freedom of Information Act—although that are entitled to those—why would they not be? The royal was never an issue when it was passing through Parliament family do a remarkable job in how they comport themselves as a Bill 10 years ago—in that it does not properly in this country. As he will know, the work that Prince acknowledge the fundamental public interest in maintaining Charles has done in better educating the public about, the confidentiality surrounding the conventions, and in and ensuring that they are better informed about, one that that does not apply to historical records, despite of the world’s wonderful religions, Islam, is remarkable. the fact that the sovereign remains in office for life. Some people might regard that as slightly partisan, but Therefore, the proposal is for an absolute exemption in I do not; I think that it is entirely appropriate for him to respect of information relating to communications with do that. However, he is not making public policy on the sovereign, the heir and the second in line, and for that matter; public policy is ultimately decided by this those acting on their behalf, of a period of 20 years, or place. their lifetime plus five years, whichever is longer. To I have spoken at slightly greater length than I had pick up on the point of the hon. Member for Aldridge- anticipated doing, but I hope that these provisions Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd), in recognition of the fact commend themselves to the House, because they represent that the constitutional position of other members of a significant further advance on ensuring that there is the royal family will vary, we are proposing that there genuine freedom of information in this country. should also be a qualified exemption: decisions on whether information relating to them should be released Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con): These would come after consideration of the public interest provisions do commend themselves to Conservative test. Their exemption would no longer expire at 30 Members, and I greatly welcome the fact that the Government years; instead it would expire at 20 years, or five years have tabled them to implement the proposals in the after the lifetime of the relevant member of the royal Dacre report. I join the Secretary of State in thanking family, whichever is the later. those who contributed to putting together the report. David Howarth: I might be mistaken, but it seems to I, too, do not wish to take up too much of the me that paragraph 3 of new schedule 1 affects not only House’s time, because the answers given by the Secretary national records, but the application of the Freedom of of State on the exemptions in new schedule 1 appear to Information Act to royal communications by removing make eminent sense and there is no point in my repeating any possibility of the use of the public interest test from the arguments that he put forward. I seek slightly greater any such communication. Am I right in thinking that clarification on only one matter. I understand that the that is the effect? original proposals in the Dacre report were that we should move from 30 to 20 years and, secondly, that Mr. Straw: As I have said, that paragraph provides an there should be a formula to cover the period that will absolute exemption in respect of records relating to the fall over 10 years to address the differences between the monarch and the next two in line and also for a qualified 20 and 30-year periods. In new clause 22, the Government exemption of 20 years or for five years after the death of have, perfectly reasonably, not sought to spell that out the monarch, whichever is later. The hon. Gentleman is in primary legislation, but have chosen to give the Lord correct in that respect. Chancellor and the Secretary of State discretion on how that is best implemented by statutory instrument. Dr. Tony Wright (Cannock Chase) (Lab): In the If my understanding of the new clause is correct, it unlikely event that we had a monarch who was seeking would therefore be open to the Government, when to subvert the constitution, would it not be in the public dealing with the matter at a later date, to go less far than interest for us to know about that? the Dacre report proposes, or to identify some categories Mr. Straw: Of course it would, but if the monarch for disclosure and some for which disclosure might not were seeking to subvert the constitution, we would happen. Alternatively, they could decide to go further know about that, because it would become rather obvious, and faster. I should be grateful if the Secretary of State and then, of course, it would be perfectly possible for could clarify that point so that the House may understand this House to bring in all sorts of emergency legislation, exactly what it is implementing. However, I appreciate including an Act of Attainder. A trial could be held that any order made by the Lord Chancellor would down in Westminster Hall, and the usual arrangements require a statutory instrument and would be made for punishment. I do not think for a second that “subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either the Freedom of Information Act or this exemption House of Parliament.” would prevent my hon. Friend and others from knowing It is important that that point is appreciated because it about such an act of subversion. might offer us an opportunity to speed up the process. 837 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 838 Governance Bill Governance Bill It has always been recognised in the Dacre report, I think that people would have been entitled to know however—and indeed by the Government—that past that that was coming out of the palace. In 1906, when assurances about the length of time for which material the Labour party did rather well in the election, people will be retained rather than put in the public domain were entitled to have known that the Prince of Wales, represent a factor that must to be taken into account who later became King George V, wrote: when deciding whether that process should be accelerated. “I see that a great number of Labour members have been When something concerns an individual who is very returned which is a rather a dangerous sign, but I hope they are much alive, and who can therefore be consulted, their not all socialists.” view may carry considerable weight when considering People are entitled to know such things. whether particular categories of material ought to be As it happens, I am quite an admirer of Prince disclosed. Charles. He seems to be doing an interesting job—that That is the only point on which I hope that the is, an impossible job with interest—and I find myself in Secretary of State might be able to respond. Subject to agreement with him on many things. If I were in his that, and because I am mindful of the time available for position, I would write similarly vigorous letters to debate, I simply wish to reiterate my welcome and say Government Ministers about issues of the day. The how grateful I am that we have taken the opportunity—at question is whether such communications—after all, one stage I thought that we were not going to get it—to the amendment that we are being asked to consider is, have the provisions implemented in this Bill and before in a sense, the Prince Charles amendment—should remain the forthcoming general election. non-disclosable in perpetuity, which is to say until five years after his death. Given the splendid longevity of members of the royal family, that would be a long time Dr. Tony Wright: One of my right hon. Friend the away. As he is someone of robust opinions who tries to Secretary of State’s many enduring legacies is the persuade Government Ministers to see the world from introduction of the Freedom of Information Act, and it his point of view, it is not fanciful to suggest that a is appropriate that he is introducing an improvement to Government Minister might decide to see things from that measure in the last days of this Parliament. the point of view of the person writing from the palace. First, let me quickly welcome the dog that did not Let us consider homeopathy, which most sensible bark: the proposal to exempt Cabinet materials, which people think is not entirely supported by evidence. was the original intention. I understand that the Prime Suppose that Prince Charles, the heir to the throne, Minister made a most welcome intervention to ensure were to weigh in to the debate, giving heavy support to that that did not happen. I can understand the temptation the idea that resources should be devoted to homeopathy. for wanting to do it, however. I remember, many years If a Government then decided to start allocating resources ago, visiting Australia to look at freedom of information to homeopathy, people would be entitled to know that when we were contemplating it here. I remember, as might that act of lobbying had been extremely successful. We my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle (Mr. Prentice)—we would want to know about it if it had come from any have been together for a long time—that we stood other source. outside the Cabinet room, where we were shown us a We have an obligation both to respect the privacy of trolley loaded with papers. People explained that they such communications at the time and to make sensible pushed that trolley into the Cabinet room so that the judgments about when they can properly be released so papers became, ipso facto, Cabinet papers, therefore that people can see what has happened. What I do not giving them a blanket exemption. They thought that understand is what has been the urgency of making that was a cunning wheeze, and I can quite see that changes in this area. I ask my right hon. Friend to there would be huge attractions in trying a similar address that point when he responds to the debate, wheeze here. I am glad that even though that idea was because my understanding is that there is no difficulty flirted with, it was resisted, and we should welcome and that the current exemption has been upheld whenever that. it has been tested by the Information Commissioner. I I never thought I would say that I wanted to praise think that my right hon. Friend has to make the case for the editor of the Daily Mail, but putting him in charge giving away a public interest test virtually in perpetuity, of the review of the arrangements in this area now and I ask him simply whether representations on this looks to have been an inspired decision. I am glad that issue have come entirely from him, or whether they have we are now seeing, more or less, the implementation of come from the royal family itself. With those comments, what that Committee recommended and that the period I extend a welcome to the measures. is being brought down to 20 years. David Howarth: I, too, welcome the progress that the I want to say something about the royal family exemption, new clauses and schedules represent, although I resent however. I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary slightly the fact that they were introduced so late in the of State told me that all such things were inconceivable day and that we are taking up time on Report with yet when I raised the question of what would happen if a more new Government proposals. It seems to me that royal did something or other but, of course, there is a the degree of scrutiny that they will get is inadequate. It history to all this. Monarchs in the past have not behaved is now very unlikely that the Bill will get much further themselves terribly well in terms of the constitutional than Second Reading in the other place, so the Bill will relationship. People did not know about it at the time, go straight into wash-up—and who knows what will but they jolly well ought to have done. Just before the come out of the other end of that? Certainly, there is no 1880 election, Queen Victoria wrote in a memorandum: public debate. I fear that that was perhaps part of the “If the Liberals…intend to lean to the extreme Radicals, they intention behind bringing forward at this stage the part can never expect any support from the Queen…These are dangerous to which the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) times and any attempt to make our Institutions Democratic will has referred. That said, I welcome the fact that progress be most disastrous”. is being made. 839 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 840 Governance Bill Governance Bill [David Howarth] would prefer there to be a disincentive against awarding very long-term contracts of that sort. I can see why I would like the Secretary of State to say a little more commercial interests might be nervous, but I am glad about the decisions that the Government have taken in that they are. response to the Dacre review. In his opening remarks, My third point echoes what the hon. Member for he rather skated over the question of whether there Cannock Chase said. This group of amendments contains should be a 20-year period, rather than a 15-year period, one piece of good news, if only in the sense of the dog and gave the impression that although it is perfectly that did not bark. The Cabinet papers exemption was natural for people to suggest a 15-year period, a 20-year mooted at an earlier stage, and it is very good news that period would be far better. The Government seem to be it does not appear in the Government’s final proposals. arguing that one reason why Ministers believe that the However, I want to add one point to what the hon. period should be 20 years is that it would be much less Gentleman said, and it is that the ministerial veto is still of a distraction to them in their current jobs than if in place. they thought that their deliberations would be revealed That veto was used in connection with the Iraq in 15 years’ time. I wonder whether there is any evidence Cabinet minutes, for example, and again in the case of for that. the Cabinet Committee considering devolution, but I believe that a dangerous drift is taking place. When the Mr. Straw: I can answer that point directly. The veto was used for the first time, the Secretary of State review team said that came directly to the House and justified what was going “neither the case for 15 years nor the case for 20 years is beyond on in an oral statement. He was therefore subject to the argument. It must be a matter of judgement how to strike the accountability of the House, even though everyone said balance”. at the time that the case was highly unusual and not a I do not say that there is direct evidence because we are matter of routine. making judgments about the future, but our judgment However, in respect of the second case—the one was that the balance would be best struck at 20 years. involving the Cabinet Committee and devolution—the Hon. Members should bear in mind that, with the Secretary of State made a written statement. He did not Freedom of Information Act 2000, most records are come to the House, and I think that we are drifting not closed even within the current envelope of 30 years— towards routine objections—[Interruption.] The Secretary soon to be 20 years, I hope. Records can be requested of State makes a gesture to show that I have mentioned even after a couple of years. However, that decision was only two cases. It is true that this is a curve with two a matter of judgment. points, but where is the trend going? That is the question. David Howarth: I thank the Secretary of State for I object to the whole idea of a ministerial exemption, that response, but surely there should be some evidence as it is a violation of the separation of powers. However, about how long ministerial careers last. Perhaps this I would be much more comfortable with the present point can be applied directly to him. His ministerial situation if the Government were to say that, whenever career started in 1997, so, under the 15-year rule, he the exemption is used, Ministers at the very least will would start to be affected by the greater openness in just have to come to the House and justify it orally. They a few years’ time, which might or might not be just after must not be allowed to leave that to a written statement. he has left office. In contrast, he would be affected in Mr. Straw: The legislation has been in force for five seven years’ time under the 20-year rule. Would he years, and the section 53 veto power has been exercised would feel distracted from the exercise of his present only twice. In that five years, the commission or the office by the prospect that he might have to be open tribunal has made scores and scores of decisions that about 1997 in a couple of years’ time, as opposed to could have been subject to veto. The fact that they have seven years? Given the robustness with which he approaches not been shows that the exemption has been used only his job, that seems unlikely. I therefore voice some very rarely. scepticism about the way the figure has drifted upwards. However, the hon. Gentleman mentioned the statement that I made about the Iraq Cabinet minutes. I am 5.45 pm always up for making oral statements, but it is a matter The second point about which I want to express some of balance. In that case, the House was properly informed scepticism has been raised already in the debate, and about the matter, and I do not think that anyone made a has to do with the commercial enterprise exception. I request for an urgent question. I would also point out to think that a policy decision has been made that has not the hon. Gentleman—he may not accept this—that the been acknowledged openly.When commercial organisations section 53 veto power is as fundamental to the architecture or enterprises sign very long-term contracts with public of the Act as all the other provisions. The truth is that authorities for the provision of public services, they are the Act would not have gone through, and no Government often very nervous about openness. That is one of the would have put their name to it without the full works problems: openness is a disincentive for operating the of the architecture, and one limb depends on another. public service in that way. David Howarth: On the substance, the Secretary of A further problem—and when I was the leader of a State and I simply disagree about whether the exemption council, I used to think that it was really serious—is is fundamental. I do not think that it is. He might be that that sort of arrangement has the capacity to freeze right that it was causative—it helped to get the Bill public policy in one direction for a very long time. The through the House—but I do not think that it is very idea that it is at all legitimate for any political authority, important in a proper system of freedom of information, whether it be the Government or a local authority, to in which the ultimate arbiters should be the courts, not enter into contracts that last a generation is, I think, the Government making decisions in cases in which problematical. Simply on policy grounds, therefore, I they are one of the parties. 841 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 842 Governance Bill Governance Bill May I correct the Secretary of State? There are historical information in general, and is not specifically several requests for urgent questions in the normal linked to the conduct of the Executive or anything else, course of events, but those requests are not always it could be used to impede requests for information that granted. There is a problem, because whenever the may well be relevant, particularly in investigations of question of Cabinet minutes arises, the Government how Northern Ireland deals with the past on the basis react automatically in thinking that the exemption should of the Eames-Bradley and any other proposals. Measures be used. I do not want that to be the case, because that could be taken to prevent the release of information aspect of the law is still within the general jurisdiction that might simply be embarrassing to Ministers or to of the commissioner and the public interest test. I do people involved in the political process as it is now in not think that it should be changed simply as a result of Northern Ireland, because it might reveal or expose the Government’s repetitive decision. some of their previous involvement in untoward and Finally, I do not want to add very much to what the less constitutional activities. Many people will be deeply hon. Member for Cannock Chase said about the royal concerned that that language can be used to provide a papers, but I think that he is right. The problem is not to sweeping exemption and protection in relation to historical do with the sovereign at all, but with other members of information that it might be valid to seek. the royal family. The question is whether a complete I hope that the House will not inadvertently be lured exemption from the public interest test—there is no into allowing such a sweeping exemption on the grounds balancing; it is an absolute exemption—should apply that that the provision is designed purely to protect the beyond the sovereign herself. The hon. Gentleman is conduct of the business of the Northern Ireland Executive. quite right to make the point that if lobbying is taking The measure appears to go much wider than that, and place by anyone—by any citizen—that is something at no point is the Northern Ireland Executive specifically that the public should know about at some point. mentioned in the new schedule. I hope that that is The House should also bear carefully in mind the something that my right hon. Friend can address. point made by the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd). The constitution is a delicate balance: Some of us have experience of trying to use Freedom the monarchy exists in that balance, because it is politically of Information requests to find out what was, or was neutral. That neutrality should not just be an apparent not, agreed or understood in relation to possible side neutrality engineered by legal exemptions but a real deals. It was in the public interest to know whether neutrality. The possibility of the Freedom of Information there were side deals and hidden understandings, because Act being brought into play in some cases is an important many people had objections and suspicions at different incentive in making sure that that neutrality is real and stages of the Northern Ireland peace process. In the not just apparent. Those are my queries and concerns, past—as a party, we have always pushed the process but the overall policy thrust is moving in the right forward, trying to reach agreement and upholding the direction—I just wish that it would move further and institutions that were agreed and ratified—our requests faster. were refused on the grounds that they dealt with sensitive political matters. That was simply not credible, and it was fairly insulting, so I would not wish to give further Mark Durkan: Like other hon. Members, I welcome licence to the notion that a British Minister could tell new clause 22, which includes provisions to reduce the me that I did not have the right to receive clear information 30-year limit and so on. However, I am concerned, as I about the conduct of political affairs in the devolved said in an intervention on my right hon. Friend the realm as it applied to me as an elected representative in Justice Secretary, about new schedule 1, particularly the that devolved realm, because they had done some other provisions affecting Northern Ireland. I should like to deal with someone else and were too embarrassed to explain my reservations. allow that side deal to emerge. I hope that my right hon. Paragraph 5(4) of new schedule 1, would add several Friend recognises that sustaining our institutions in new subsections to section 63 of the Freedom of Northern Ireland and taking them forward requires Information Act 2000. It states, for example, that transparency as much as secrecy and the protection of any sort of covert political deals. “information contained in a historical record cannot be exempt information by virtue of section 36 except”— I urge my right hon. Friend, too, to address paragraph 6 and this is one instance— of the schedule, which would insert into the Freedom of Information Act new section 80A, which relates to “in a case falling within subsection (2)(c) of that section where the prejudice or likely prejudice relates to the effective conduct of information held by Northern Ireland bodies. It states public affairs in Northern Ireland.” that the new section applies to information held by Similarly, proposed new subsection 2B says that compliance “the Northern Ireland Assembly…a Northern Ireland department, applies or…a Northern Ireland public authority.” “except where the effect…falls within subsection (2)(c) of that It goes on to make it clear that we are talking not about section and relates to the effective conduct of public affairs in 20 years but 30 years, and it lists other exemptions and Northern Ireland.” outs. If that is for the purposes of protecting the My right hon. Friend suggested that the purpose was business of the Northern Ireland Executive, why are to protect the business of the Northern Ireland Executive. there references to the Northern Ireland Assembly, The business of that Executive, or the conduct of their Northern Ireland Departments and Northern Ireland business, is not referred to specifically, but there is a public authorities? Was the Assembly consulted on the wide descriptor of the likely prejudicing of the conduct reference to it? Section 36 of the 2000 Act says that the of public affairs in Northern Ireland. Many people will Speaker of the Assembly is the relevant officer, so were be concerned that if the measure is used in relation to he and the Northern Ireland Assembly Commission 843 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 844 Governance Bill Governance Bill [Mark Durkan] I should have thought that it was in the interests of the Government, House and public authorities to be consulted? If not, what right does the House have to much more open and frank about these matters, so I proceed with this, if there has been no approval, wonder why there is always resistance—from Whitehall, agreement or assent? in large measure—to such openness, publication or accessibility in respect of what is behind the contracts. I 6pm cannot see in what way such a blanket restriction—there Similarly, were the Northern Ireland Executive or the is no calibration, remember—assists the public interest, Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister which includes best value, openness and all the criteria consulted on the provision for Northern Ireland Departments that inform, or are meant to inform, the freedom of and public authorities, or is it based purely on the surmise information legislation. and advice of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland? I know that we want to get through these provisions The Government rightly chose to exempt Cabinet papers rapidly, but the Justice Secretary’s comments on them not for 30 years, but only for 20, and it would be bizarre were, of necessity, brief: we are under a guillotine, after if all the affairs of Northern Ireland Departments, all. Nevertheless, there is no opportunity to tease out publicauthoritiesandtheAssembly—meaningtheinformation the issue. My proposition to the House is that the that the Speaker holds—were to be exempt for 30 years. evidence suggests a provision that is contrary to the There is no credible reason why they should be, and the Government’s proposal, so I shall not wave it through public and, I am quite sure, the press in Northern as a good measure. At the heart of that contention lies Ireland would be deeply suspicious of that. They would some of the answers to the public procurement and certainly be very suspicious if the provision, having been long-term contracts that central and local authorities microwaved out of wherever,passed through this Parliament enter into, and that is the point that I wanted to make. without any of us from Northern Ireland speaking up to The proposal should be revisited. I know that the Bill question it. is not going anywhere, but I should hope that in the Lords, at least, a beadier eye will be cast over whether Mr. Shepherd: I wholly concur with everything that the provision is necessary and in the public interest. has been said in support of relaxing or expanding freedom of information. Through questions, I have raised my main concerns with this aspect of the Bill, Mr. Straw: The hon. and learned Member for but I shall return to the commercial interests question, Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) asked whether the time scale which worries me quite deeply. could be compressed or extended, or apply at different speeds to different bodies. In principle, we aim to ensure I remember that, in the early days of our pre-legislative that the process applies evenly to all bodies over a scrutiny of the Freedom of Information Bill under the 10-year period. For example, if we had the order ready chairmanship of Rhodri Morgan, we had an interview and it came into force for 2011, in 2011 the records for with commercial interests. One was Tarmac, and we two years rather than one—1981 and 1982—would be asked its representatives, “Why do we need to exempt released; in 2012, the records for 1983 and 1984 would you? Why shouldn’t your business, where it affects be released; and so on until we got to 2020, when the public authorities and so on, be a matter of revelation?” records for 1999 and 2000 would be released. After that, They agreed wholeheartedly with us and wanted to the transition would be complete. know why rivals secured a contract with a public authority, for instance. That was the commercial engine for their However, the power to make the order is, as the hon. interest in the matter, but if we citizens, taxpayers, and learned Gentleman spotted, flexible, so it would be Governments and local authorities stand back, do we possible to include different time scales for different not find that we have the same objective in wanting to bodies, and to extend or compress them. I suspect that achieve best value for money, for instance? The competitive that is not the intention generally, but there may be details—the commercial interest, as it is called—should some bodies whereby for particular reasons it is not be a more open book. In some states of the United practicable to do all that work at the same time. I hope States, all tendering is open and all contracts are open. that that answers his question. They say, “Here’s the deal. Who can match it? Who can The hon. and learned Gentleman was good enough do better?”Within the process, however, there are obviously to commend the Government for introducing this other checks and balances on the stability and solidity legislation. He said that he had doubted whether it of the company that provides the services. would be possible, and I, too, doubted whether it would be The provision before us is an extraordinary exemption. possible. I am therefore deeply grateful to the Minister Everywhere else we are bringing the period down to of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for 20 years, but this proposal is for 30 years. Public authority North Swindon (Mr. Wills) for assiduously pressing all contracts have turned sour in recent years, but that Departments in order to ensure not only that we introduced point is not confined to this Government; it predates it, but that, with luck, it will go on to the statute book. them and goes back into our history. We are discussing Given the consensus behind the legislation, I have no long-term contracts, so I wonder whether the exemption reason to believe that that luck should not obtain. is for national security reasons. Defence installations, My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase nuclear power stations and so on touch on our national (Dr. Wright) entertained us with dastardly things that security interests if only in respect of our containing had been said by heirs to the monarchy, by the monarch them, fighting for them or protecting them from terrorism. herself in the 1880s and by the heir to the Crown in But, in truth, on the issue of 30 years’ exemption for a 1906. If he had wanted to make a point, however, he contract that a local authority has entered into, ought would have needed some slightly more contemporary we not to know whether it is a good contract? How do examples. Furthermore, it is also true that, as Queen we evaluate it, and by what do we compare it? Victoria was uttering those concerns about the Liberals 845 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 846 Governance Bill Governance Bill being elected, £10,000—equivalent to £1 million today— Mr. Straw: I am sorry to resort to the text of new from the Secret Service Vote was routinely made available schedule 1, but my hon. Friend will see that it sets out to the Chief Whip for him to use as he wished to ensure the relevant categories of information—communications that Government business went through. [Interruption.] with the sovereign, the heir and the second heir. The key I shall leave that sedentary intervention where it is and word is “communications”, which covers a wide range certainly not repeat it. of information. I believe that it is appropriate that it To a degree, that money ensured compliance, but the should. [Interruption.] I am grateful to my hon. Friend idea that these days the Chief Whip should have £1 million the Minister of State, who has handed me a note stating in folding money to dish out as he wishes is preposterous. that the provision applies also to those acting on behalf It may have ensured more votes back then, but times of the relevant members of the royal family, which I change. I think that we have reached a rather settled said in my opening remarks. position on the monarchy, and I have explained the It took me a bit of time to catch up with the news that reasons why we believe the proposals to be necessary. the hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) is going to leave the House, and I am sorry that he is. I Lynne Jones (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Although made my point about the veto in an intervention on the examples given by my hon. Friend the Member for him. I sometimes think that people want to pick and Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright), which I watched in my mix the Freedom of Information Act. It is a very tough office, were amusing, there have been more recent examples Act, and notwithstanding the criticisms as it was going of members of the royal family seeking to intervene in through the House that it was no better than the non- public policy. Why do the Government think it is right statutory information code, it has transformed the public’s to remove the public interest exemption? In most cases, right to know about what public authorities do and the Information Commissioner has ruled on the side of changed the behaviour of national and local government. the royal family, and surely it is right to retain the It is not an à la carte menu, it is a single whole, and as I exemption. have said before, the section 53 power is as essential a Mr. Straw: The reason is that the current situation part of it as the public interest test exceptions in section 2. was never the intention when the Freedom of Information It is better and more substantial than most comparable Act was introduced. I say that without fear of contradiction, freedom of information Acts in the world, including because I know what the intention was. I do not recall that in Australia. any suggestion that there should be anything but substantial 6.15 pm protection for the monarch and the heirs to the throne. We are simply maintaining the status quo with respect It was a complex Bill, and as the hon. Member for to Northern Ireland. We did not ask the Northern Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd) will recall, it went Ireland Assembly whether it wanted us to do that, through a number of iterations. It was certainly a because there was not anything in particular to ask it different and much tougher Bill that went on to the since we were not changing anything. It will remain statute book compared with the one that I introduced. open to the Assembly to pass its own freedom of My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase will information legislation relating to its own areas of remember a most extraordinary period on Report when, business if it wants to bring it into line with what is without any agreement from any Cabinet Committee, happening in this House. That seems an appropriate for instance, I accepted a series of amendments to way to proceed. accommodate concerns on both sides of the House. I understand the anxiety of my hon. Friend the My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), but neither the Oak (Lynne Jones) and I may simply disagree about Information Commissioner nor the Information Tribunal this, but I urge on the House the profound distinction allow the text of the Freedom of Information Act to be between members of the royal family and anybody else used more widely than the provisions in it state. If in public life. The royal family have not chosen their anybody attempts to use the exemptions in it too widely, position. They perform their functions with the utmost they have to get past first the Information Commissioner professionalism and dedication, but they have their and secondly the tribunal. If they are both blind to the position for life. It is worth bearing in mind that Her fact that the provisions of the Act are being misused, Majesty is now on her 11th Prime Minister, I believe. I there can be an appeal to the High Court on a point of am one of the few people in the House who can remember law, as there has been. I am quite sure that the High her succession to the throne in February 1952—one or Court would spot the error that was being made, even if two others are in their places, such as the right hon. the other two institutions had not done so. Member for North Antrim (Rev. Ian Paisley) and the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills. We are a fast- Mark Durkan: My right hon. Friend says that no diminishing group, but Her Majesty goes on. If we consultation took place because there was no change, want to ensure that respect for and confidence in the but he told us earlier that the reference to Northern monarchy continue, we have a duty to ensure that she Ireland was in the new schedule specifically at the and the heir to the throne are properly protected. As for request, and on the advice, of the Secretary of State for everybody below the second heir to the throne, they are Northern Ireland. Obviously it occurred to somebody subject to qualified exemptions, as I have explained. that there were implications, and they said that Northern Ireland should be exempted. It seems strange that the Mark Durkan: Will my right hon. Friend clarify Secretary of State for Northern Ireland took the decision, whether the exemption will apply only to matters that not the elected representatives of Northern Ireland. are directly and personally communicated by the relevant members of the royal family, or also to anything voiced Mr. Straw: Of course I acted on advice from my right by third parties, perhaps at semi-private lunches to hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland—it which Ministers are invited? would have been eccentric if I had not done so. We had 847 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 848 Governance Bill Governance Bill [Mr. Straw] New Schedule 1 made a general policy decision to move to a 20-year ‘A MENDMENTS OF FREEDOM OF INFORMATION period, and my right hon. Friend made what I regarded ACT 2000 as cogent arguments for why it should remain 30 years 1 The Freedom of Information Act 2000 is amended as follows. in Northern Ireland, which I accepted for reasons that I 2 In section 2(3) (exemptions not subject to public interest test) have tried to spell out. Because that decision did not after paragraph (e) insert— affect the status quo, there was nothing on which to “(ea) in section 37, paragraphs (a) to (ab) of subsection consult the Northern Ireland Assembly directly. It is (1), and subsection (2) so far as relating to those worth bearing in mind that, as I recall, there was no paragraphs,”. Northern Ireland Assembly when the original Act was 3 In section 37(1) (communications with Her Majesty, etc.), for passed. paragraph (a) substitute— “(a) communications with the Sovereign, Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Does the Secretary of State not accept that as well as the (aa) communications with the heir to, or the person who is for the time being second in line of succession to, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Secretary of State, Throne, there are Members and political parties in this House (ab) communications with a person who has subsequently who should have been asked for their considered opinion? acceded to the Throne or become heir to, or second Would it not have been appropriate for such consultations in line to, the Throne, to be held? (ac) communications with other members of the Royal Family (other than communications which fall within Mr. Straw: If that is so, I apologise to the hon. any of paragraphs (a) to (ab) because they are made Gentleman and his colleagues. All this reminds me that or received on behalf of a person falling within any whatever bad things I did in my previous life, they were of those paragraphs), and never bad enough to have me made Secretary of State (ad) communications with the Royal Household (other for Northern Ireland. If I have not explained the matter than communications which fall within any of paragraphs as fully or comprehensively as I should have done, I will (a) to (ac) because they are made or received on behalf perhaps have to write to my hon. Friend the Member of a person falling within any of those paragraphs), or”. for Foyle and copy the letter to other hon. Members. 4 In section 62(1) (meaning of “historical record”), for “thirty years” substitute “twenty years”. Dr. McCrea: Would the right hon. Gentleman not 5 (1) Section 63 (removal of exemptions: historical records regard being Secretary of State for Northern Ireland as generally) is amended as follows. an honour rather than as a burden? (2) In subsection (1)— (a) omit “28,”, and Mr. Straw: It would have been as much of an honour (b) for “36, 37(1)(a), 42 or 43” substitute “or 42”. as being Home Secretary, but I will not proceed down (3) In subsection (2)— that road. It would have been a wonderful honour to be Northern Ireland Secretary and of course, had the (a) omit “28(3),” and Queen’s shilling come my way in that respect, I would (b) for “36(3), 42(2) or 43(3)” substitute “or 42(2)”. have accepted it. (4) After subsection (2) insert— Finally, to answer the points raised by the hon. “(2A) Information contained in a historical record cannot be Member for Aldridge-Brownhills, I gather that Departments exempt information by virtue of section 36 except— and other bodies release details of contracts on a regular (a) in a case falling within subsection (2)(a)(ii) of that basis in publication schemes. However, 30 years is necessary section, or for a limited number of contracts that are long term. In (b) in a case falling within subsection (2)(c) of that section any event, all we are doing, as with Northern Ireland where the prejudice or likely prejudice relates to the matters, is maintaining the status quo—the current effective conduct of public affairs in Northern Ireland. 30 years—which I do not think is a huge deal. For quite (2B) Compliance with section 1(1)(a) in relation to a historical good reasons, the exemption will still be subject to the record is not to be taken to have any of the effects referred to in public interest test: it is a qualified exemption, not an subsection (3) of section 36, except where the effect— absolute exemption. (a) falls within subsection (2)(a)(ii) of that section, or With those comprehensive and informed answers, I (b) falls within subsection (2)(c) of that section and relates commend these provisions to the House. to the effective conduct of public affairs in Northern Ireland. Question put and agreed to. (2C) Information cannot be exempt information— New clause 22 accordingly read a Second time, and (a) by virtue of section 28 or 43, or added to the Bill. (b) by virtue of section 36 in the excepted cases mentioned in subsection (2A), New Clause 23 after the end of the period of thirty years beginning with the year following that in which the record containing the information was created. FREEDOM OF INFORMATION (2D) Compliance with section 1(1)(a) in relation to any record ‘Schedule [Amendments of Freedom of Information Act 2000] is not to be taken, at any time after the end of the period of thirty (which makes amendments of the Freedom of Information years beginning with the year following that in which the record Act 2000) has effect.’.—(Mr. Straw.) was created, to be capable— Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added (a) of prejudicing any of the matters referred to in to the Bill. section 28(1) or 43(2), or 849 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 850 Governance Bill Governance Bill (b) of having any of the effects referred to in section 36(3) (d) provide to any member on request such further advice in the excepted cases mentioned in subsection (2B). about making claims as the IPSA considers appropriate.”, (2E) Information cannot be exempt information by virtue of and any of paragraphs (a) to (ad) of section 37(1) after whichever is (b) in the heading omit “about taxation”.’. the later of— (a) the end of the period of five years beginning with the Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): With this date of the relevant death, and it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government (b) the end of the period of twenty years beginning with amendments 56 and 58 to 63. the date on which the record containing the Amendment 91, in schedule 7, page 78, line 7, leave information was created. out ‘fund’ and insert ‘trust scheme’. (2F) In subsection (2E)(a) “the relevant death” means— Government amendment 64, page 78, line 9, leave out (a) for the purposes of any of paragraphs (a) to (ac) of sub-paragraphs (2) to (4) and insert— section 37(1), the death of the person referred to in ‘Number and composition of trustees the paragraph concerned, or (b) for the purposes of section 37(1)(ad), the death of the 1A (1) The following are to be the trustees of the Fund— Sovereign reigning when the record containing the (a) one person appointed by the IPSA after consulting the information was created.” Minister for the Civil Service and the persons who are already trustees of the Fund, 6 After section 80 insert— (b) one person appointed by the Minister for the Civil “80A Information held by Northern Ireland bodies Service after consulting the IPSA and the persons (1) This section applies to information held by— who are already trustees of the Fund, and (a) the Northern Ireland Assembly, (c) 8 persons nominated and selected in accordance with (b) a Northern Ireland department, or arrangements under paragraph 1B (“member-nominated trustees”). (c) a Northern Ireland public authority. (2) Paragraphs 44 and 45 make transitional provision about (2) In their application to information to which this section the trustees of the Fund. applies, the provisions of this Act have effect subject to the following modifications. Member-nominated trustees (3) Section 2(3) (exemptions not subject to public interest test) 1B (1) The trustees of the Fund must make arrangements for is to be read as if paragraph (ea) were omitted. the nomination and selection of member-nominated trustees. (4) Section 37(1) (communications with Her Majesty, etc) is to (2) The arrangements must provide for the member-nominated be read as if for paragraphs (a) to (ad) there were substituted— trustees to be— (a) nominated as the result of a process in which all the “(a) communications with the Sovereign, with other members of a scheme under paragraph 7 and all the members of the Royal Family or with the Royal members of a scheme under paragraph 11 are eligible Household, or”. to participate, and (5) Section 62(1) (meaning of “historical record”) is to be read (b) selected as the result of a process in which all those as if the reference to twenty years were a reference to thirty years. persons are eligible to participate. (6) Section 63 (removal of exemptions: historical records (3) The arrangements must— generally) is to be read as if— (a) include provision for the nomination and selection (a) in subsection (1), for the words from “section” to the process to take place within a reasonable period of end there were substituted “section 28, 30(1), 32, 33, any vacancy arising, 35, 36, 37(1)(a), 42 or 43”, (b) include provision, where a vacancy is not filled because (b) in subsection (2), for the words from “section” to the insufficient nominations are received, for the end there were substituted “section 28(3), 33(3), nomination and selection process to be repeated at 36(3), 42(2) or 43(3)”, and reasonable intervals until the vacancy is filled, and (c) subsections (2A) to (2F) were omitted.”.’.— (c) include provision that, where the IPSA or the Minister (Mr. Straw.) for the Civil Service so requires, a person who is not a Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added member of a scheme under paragraph 7 and is not a to the Bill. member of a scheme under paragraph 11 must have the approval of the IPSA or the Minister for the Civil Service to qualify for selection as a member-nominated trustee. Clause 41 (4) The arrangements may include provision that where the number of nominations received is equal to or less than the ALLOWANCES CLAIMS number of vacancies, the nominees are to be treated as selected (subject to sub-paragraph (3)(c)). Mr. Straw: I beg to move amendment 55, page 24, line 14, Remuneration at end insert— 1C (1) The IPSA may provide for remuneration and ‘(6) In section 7 of that Act (information and guidance about allowances to be payable to the trustees of the Fund. taxation)— (2) Any such remuneration and allowances are to be paid from (a) before subsection (1) insert— the assets of the Fund. “(A1) The IPSA must— Resignation and removal of trustees (a) prepare guidance for members of the House of 1D (1) A person appointed as a trustee of the Fund by the Commons about making claims under the MPs’ IPSA under paragraph 1A(1)(a)— allowances scheme; (a) may resign by giving written notice to the IPSA, and (b) review the guidance regularly and revise it as appropriate; (b) may be removed by the IPSA after consulting the (c) publish the guidance in a way the IPSA considers Minister for the Civil Service and all the other appropriate; trustees of the Fund. 851 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 852 Governance Bill Governance Bill (2) A person appointed as a trustee of the Fund by the (d) notice in writing that the provision has effect in relation Minister for the Civil Service under paragraph 1A(1)(b)— to the accrued right only with their written consent. (a) may resign by giving written notice to the Minister for (4B) Consent may be given by a person acting on behalf of P the Civil Service, and (or the survivors); and the references in sub-paragraph (4A) to P (b) may be removed by the Minister for the Civil Service (or the survivors) include a person acting on their behalf.’. after consulting the IPSA and all the other trustees of Amendment (a) to Government amendment 74, in the Fund. sub-paragraph (4)(b), leave out (3) A person who is a member-nominated trustee— ‘pension or the benefit of any pension’ (a) may resign by giving written notice to the other and insert trustees of the Fund, and ‘benefit or future benefit payable out of the Fund’. (b) may be removed by all the other trustees of the Fund acting together. Government amendment 75. Proceedings Government amendment 76, page 84, line 36, leave 1E (1) Subject to any provision contained in a scheme under out sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) and insert— paragraph 3 because of paragraph 3(1)(c), the trustees of the ‘(2) “Accrued right”, in relation to a provision of the new Fund may determine their own procedure. scheme, means a right or entitlement to or in respect of a pension (2) The validity of any proceedings of the trustees of the Fund or future pension payable out of the Fund which has accrued in is not affected by— respect of service before the provision comes into force. (a) a vacancy among the trustees, or (3) If the person in respect of whose service the right or (b) a defect in the appointment of a trustee.’. entitlement has accrued is in service when the provision comes into force, the right or entitlement is to be determined as if the Amendment (a) to Government amendment 64, in person left service immediately before then.’. paragraph 1B(2)(b), after ‘which’, insert ‘some or’. Amendment (a) to Government amendment 76, after Amendment (b) to Government amendment 64, in ‘means a right’, insert ‘(including a contingent right)’. paragraph 1C(1), after ‘may’, insert Amendment (b) to Government amendment 76, leave ‘with the consent of the Treasury’. out Amendment 90, page 79, line 2, at end insert— ‘a pension or future pension’ ‘(bb) the indemnification of the trustees (and former and insert trustees) of the Fund’. ‘a benefit or future benefits’. Government amendments 65 to 73. Amendment (c) to Government amendment 76, leave Amendment 94, page 82, line 6, leave out ‘the provision out sub-paragraph (3). specified in paragraph 24(2)’ and insert— ‘(i) the provision specified in paragraph 21(1), unless Government amendments 77 to 79. with the consent of the trustees of the Fund, Government amendment 80, page 85, line 31, at end (ii) the provision specified in paragraph 26, unless with insert— the consent of the trustees of the Fund, and ‘( ) For the purposes of this Schedule “member”— (iii) the provision specified in paragraph 24(2)’. (a) in relation to a scheme under paragraph 7, means a Amendment 95, page 83, line 24, at end insert person with service as a member of the House of Commons who, in respect of that service, has a right ‘, except the provisions specified in paragraphs 21(1) and or entitlement under the scheme to a pension or 26 unless with the consent of the trustees of the Fund’. future pension payable out of the Fund, and Amendment 93, page 84, line 16, after ‘puts’, insert (b) in relation to a scheme under paragraph 11 , means a ‘(or might put)’. person with service to which that paragraph applies Government amendment 74, page 84, line 18, leave who, in respect of that service, has a right or out from ‘if’ to end of line 28 and insert— entitlement under the scheme to a pension or future pension payable out of the Fund.’. ‘(a) the trustees of the Fund consent to the new scheme making the provision, and Amendment (a) to Government amendment 80, in (b) the person making the new scheme is satisfied that the sub-paragraph (a), leave out ‘pension or future pension’ consent requirement is met. and insert ‘benefit or future benefits’. (4) The consent requirement is met if under the new scheme Amendment (b) to Government amendment 80, in the provision has effect in relation to an accrued right only with sub-paragraph (b), leave out ‘pension or future pension’ the written consent, given in accordance with sub- and insert ‘benefit or future benefits’. paragraph (4A), of— Government amendment 81. (a) the person (“P”) in respect of whose service the right has accrued, or Amendment 92, page 85, line 40, at end insert— (b) if P is dead, the persons (“the survivors”) who because ‘“trust scheme” has the same meaning as in section of the accrued right are entitled, or may become 124(1) of the Pensions Act 1995’. entitled, to a pension or the benefit of any pension. Government amendments 82 to 88. (4A) Consent is given in accordance with this sub-paragraph if it is given after the person making the scheme has given P (or the Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): On a survivors)— point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker— (a) information in writing which adequately explains the nature of the provision and its effect, Mr. Deputy Speaker: May I just point out to the (b) notice in writing that they may make representations House that there is an error in the text of proposed about the provision, amendment (a) to amendment 64, tabled by the hon. (c) an adequate opportunity to make such representations, Member for Bournemouth, West (Sir John Butterfill)? and On page 1153 of the amendment paper, the words 853 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 854 Governance Bill Governance Bill proposed to be inserted should read “some or” and not Paragraph 13.34 states that the Committee, after “some of”. I am sure that that will come as matter of consideration, thought that that should be a matter not great satisfaction to the House, and hopefully we can for the SSRB, but for the new body. Recommendation 43 proceed. states: Did you wish to make a point of order, Mr. Heath? “The independent determination of MPs’ pay and pensions should be entrenched in primary legislation in the same way as expenses. The independent regulator”— Mr. Heath: That was my point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and you have corrected the matter. Thank you. IPSA— “should therefore be given statutory responsibility for setting Mr. Deputy Speaker: I wish all were satisfied quite so MPs’ pay levels and overseeing MPs’ pensions as well as for quickly. I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman. dealing with expenses.” We made some progress on implementing the pensions Mr. Straw: It may be convenient for the House if I provisions in Committee. I am grateful to the hon. inform hon. Members that I intend to accept amendments Member for Bournemouth, West, my right hon. Friend (a) and (b), in the name of the hon. Member for the Member for Islwyn (Mr. Touhig), my right hon. and Bournemouth, West (Sir John Butterfill), to amendment 64, learned Friend the Leader of the House, and other which is in my name; and his amendments (a) and (c) to trustees for their subsequent contributions. I fully recognise my amendment 67. I also urge the House to accept that the trustees of the pension fund, who do great, amendments 90, 93, 94 and 95, which are in his name. I unsung work on behalf of current Members and pensioners understand that the hon. Gentleman will make clear the are properly anxious to ensure that the new arrangements reasons why he does not intend to move amendment (a) will work effectively and provide everyone—current to amendment 74, amendment (b) to amendment 76, Members and pensioners—with appropriate safeguards amendments (a) and (b) to amendment 80 and in respect of their accrued pension entitlements. amendments 91 and 92. I have set out what Kelly recommended, and I think The provisions relate to part 4 of the Bill, which everybody accepts that we must remain faithful to the implements a number of recommendations of the report principles that Kelly set out. He said that the full by the Committee on Standards in Public Life on MPs’ remuneration package of MPs—expenses, pay and expenses—the Kelly report. Lest there be too much pensions—should be subject to determination by IPSA, complaint that the Bill is longer now than when it began and that IPSA should, to use its word, “oversee” the its journey, I should say that although that is true, one administration of the pension scheme. However, there of the main reasons is that in the intervening time, we was no suggestion in the Kelly report that IPSA should had the expenses scandal, the Kelly report and a decision do everything in respect of pensions, and IPSA has not by the House to establish the Independent Parliamentary made that suggestion. Standards Authority, which was done via free-standing, emergency legislation last summer—the Parliamentary 6.30 pm Standards Act 2009. That preceded the Kelly report, The first concern was that there should be proper and we have decided to implement the parts of the safeguards for hon. Members’ accrued pension rights. report that require legislation in this Bill, because it is My aim is to ensure that the statutory safeguards afforded the only available vehicle. That inevitably means that to members of other occupational pension schemes the process has been a bit compressed, but I suggest that broadly apply to the parliamentary scheme. As with it would have been disastrous for the already damaged statutory protection for pension schemes elsewhere, reputation of the House and of politics if we had not amendment 74 would put a double lock on any provision proceeded fully to implement the Kelly report by the adversely changing accrued pension rights. It would time of the forthcoming general election. first be necessary for the trustees to consent to the During debates in Committee on the Kelly provisions, scheme making such provision and, secondly, each member the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire (Sir would have to give his or her informed consent to any George Young) and others raised a number of issues changes to accrued rights. that I undertook further to consider. In particular, I It is the Government’s view that in giving such approval, undertook to look at how we give effect to the Kelly and indeed exercising any of their other functions, the report’s recommendations on MPs’ pensions and at the trustees would need to act in the best interests of the enforcement powers of the compliance officer in respect members in accordance with their clear fiduciary duties of the expenses regime. I also told the shadow Leader of as trustees. That protection means that if IPSA were to the House that I would look carefully at his proposal to change the rules of the scheme, the pension entitlements require IPSA to be ready to offer guidance to Members that other hon. Members and I have would be safeguarded on prospective claims for expenses, to avoid our getting if we left service immediately before any change. No into a position in which claims are made and rejected, adverse changes could be made to that pension entitlement which would be on the public record. It would be better without the agreement of the trustees or our individual for advice to be given in advance, and I am pleased to consent. tell the House that an amendment in my name meets Secondly, there were concerns that schedule 7, as that concern. originally drafted, left open to doubt whether the new On Members’ pensions arrangements, the House will arrangements ensured the continuation of a trustee-based recall that paragraph 13.32 of the Kelly report suggested scheme with appropriate member representation on the that either the Senior Salaries Review Body or the board of trustees. Amendment 64 would put that beyond independent regulator could, among other things “set doubt and set out on the face of the Bill the structure of the terms and” oversee the board of trustees. The amendments provide for a “the…administration of parliamentary pensions.” board of 10 trustees, one of whom would be appointed 855 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 856 Governance Bill Governance Bill by IPSA, a second by the Minister for the Civil Service, (Sir George Young) was keen to ensure that there was while the remaining eight would be member-nominated some explicit duty on IPSA to offer guidance to MPs, trustees. It will be left to the trustees collectively to and I recognise the need for clear, comprehensive and make appropriate arrangements for the nomination and consistent guidance, alongside the scheme itself. This selection of the member-nominated trustees, but such will be essential if the mistakes of the past are not to be arrangements must involve all members of the MPs’ revisited. Moreover, such guidance needs to be a living and Ministers’ pension schemes. document, regularly reviewed and updated in the light The amendments include appropriate transitional of experience. provisions, so that there can be a managed progression In addition, while hon. Members must take personal from the current board of trustees to the new one, but responsibility for their own expenses claims, it is right that the existing trustees will continue to be trustees until the such guidance should be augmented by some facility to end of the transitional period. There is also provision seek advice from IPSA, albeit that those arrangements for the first eight member-nominated trustees to be must be a matter for IPSA to determine. In IPSA’s chosen from among the existing trustees. consultation paper on the expenses scheme, it made clear Thirdly, amendment 66 would require IPSA to obtain its intention to provide such advice and guidance. the consent of the trustees before making the administration Amendment 55 will provide statutory underpinning for scheme under paragraph 3 of schedule 7. This is an this. appropriate further safeguard, given that the administration Finally, amendments 56, 58 to 60 and 62 respond to scheme will set out the trustees’ core responsibilities in concerns that the enforcement provisions in schedule 5 respect of the administration of the parliamentary to the Bill do not enable the compliance officer to contributory pension fund and the management of its exercise appropriate discretion when seeking to recover assets. overpaid expenses in those cases where the compliance I have considered very carefully whether we have got officer has established that IPSA was wholly or partly at the balance right between the administration scheme fault. There may be circumstances where, for example, and the MPs’ pension scheme. I know that this was an MP incurs expenditure in good faith having sought another issue that has troubled the trustees. After much advice from IPSA; IPSA then reimburses that expenditure; discussion, I am satisfied, and I hope that the trustees but it subsequently transpires that the advice was erroneous are too, that we have got the demarcation between the and that the expenses should not have been paid. If in two schemes right. The pension scheme will determine exceptional circumstances such as these the compliance the full range of pension benefits and entitlements. In officer finds that IPSA is at fault, we agree that the accordance with the overarching principle of independent compliance officer should have discretion not to require determination, these are properly matters for sole full repayment of the overpaid expenses. determination by IPSA, albeit—as the provisions in the I hope that I have given a helpful explanation of the Bill make clear—after consultation with the trustees, amendments and that they will command the approval the Government Actuary, the Senior Salaries Review of the House. Body and others. I have studied carefully the amendments in the name Mr. Shailesh Vara (North-West Cambridgeshire) (Con): of the hon. Member for Bournemouth, West (Sir John On this side of the House, and in common with many Butterfill) and other trustees, and I have had the opportunity others, we have been absolutely clear that MPs’ pay and to discuss them. I have advised the House on those that expenses should be determined by an independent body. I think it should accept. I understand that the hon. MPs setting their own financial package is simply not Gentleman is ready to withdraw some of his amendments, acceptable. Given all that has happened in recent months, but I shall address them briefly. that imperative has become ever more pressing. On that Amendments 91 and 92 are not necessary. There is no basis, we supported the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009. question that the trustees will owe a fiduciary duty to Just as we supported IPSA’s conception, we also members of the scheme and that it will continue to pressed for its speedy inception, in order to ensure that operate as a trust-based scheme. Nothing in these provisions the next Parliament can start under a new regime. After would alter the current position in that regard. a long process of reviews and reports, the passing of the Amendments 74(a), 76(b) and 80(a) and (b) relate to Parliamentary Standards Act 2009, and now with several accrued rights. I think that these amendments were additions and amendments to the 2009 Act being pursued based on a misunderstanding, although everyone has through the Constitutional Reform and Governance had to run very fast with these provisions. It is important Bill, we are close to ensuring that the next Parliament that we get them on the statute book quickly, so all of will be able to start with a clean sheet, so far as pay, those advising us on all sides have had to work very fast. expenses and allowances are concerned. The provisions in schedule 7 are based on the provisions Many of the changes made so far to this Bill are in the Parliamentary and Other Pensions Act 1987. Our welcome. They have strengthened the Parliamentary provisions use the language “pension or future pension”, Standards Act, following the many important and welcome rather than the language “benefit or future benefit” as recommendations made by Sir Christopher Kelly. As a used in the Pensions Act 1995. The same outcome will result, the future management of Members’ pay and be achieved, and there is no question that the use of allowances will be independent and transparent, coupled different language will mean that members are with a more rigorous audit and assurance process. disadvantaged. In Committee, we raised several concerns regarding Finally, I wish to address the IPSA expenses regime some of the new clauses introduced by the Government. and the role of the compliance officer. In Committee, These included the need for a clearer requirement for the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire IPSA to provide advice to Members; the fact that the 857 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 858 Governance Bill Governance Bill compliance officer had a dual role, giving advice as well be trust-based in the future, with amendment 64 dealing as having an investigatory role; the manner in which the with how many trustees are to serve and how they will original schedule 7 dealt with the transfer of the MPs’ be appointed. However, the trustees assert that the pensions scheme to IPSA, along with an obvious lack point of the scheme being trust-based should be made of consultation by the Government with the scheme’s explicit in the Bill, and they seek to do that with trustees; and the issue of payment of costs by Members amendments 91 and 92. Although the scheme has operated in cases where IPSA itself was wholly or partly at fault on a trustee basis in the past, given that we are now concerning the advice that it offered. It is clear that the transferring it to another body, it makes sense to make Government have reflected on those and other issues it as clear as possible that it will continue to be a trustee raised by right hon. and hon. Members in Committee, scheme in the future. On that basis, the Secretary of and I am pleased that the result is an improvement in State might wish to reconsider amendments 91 and 92. the sections of the Bill dealing with IPSA. The trustees have also tabled amendment 94, which On the issue of repayment of overpaid expenses, and seeks to ensure that, if IPSA decides in the future to the payment of costs by Members, I am pleased that the make a payment out of the fund to somebody who has points raised by my right hon. Friend the shadow not paid into it, the trustees must give their consent. Leader of the House have been acted on and addressed Although that is an unlikely scenario, the Bill as drafted in amendments 56 to 62. On the former, it is sensible allows IPSA to do just that, and I am pleased that the that the Government have confirmed a discretion on Secretary of State has accepted some of the arguments the compliance officer concerning the full repayment of for amendment 94. The trustees also have concerns overpaid expenses when the compliance officer has about the protection of accrued rights, as evidenced by found IPSA to be wholly or partly at fault. Although amendments (a) and (c) to Government amendment 76. the discretion is unlikely to be exercised often, it is Again, it is good that the Secretary of State is prepared important that it exists, if natural justice is to be seen to to hear some of the arguments put forward, and I look be done, and actually to be done, in cases where incorrect forward to hearing what my hon. Friend the Member information has been provided to Members who have for Bournemouth, West has to say on that and other subsequently acted on that advice in good faith. amendments. We are also grateful that amendment 55 introduces a The issues before us affect all Members, and I am specific requirement on IPSA to provide further advice pleased that the Secretary of State has taken note of the when Members request it. After the general election, all various suggestions made in Committee and the Members—whether old hands or newly arrived—will amendments before us today. The result is an improved operate under the new regime, but it is inevitable that Bill in so far as it relates to IPSA, which is welcome. there will instances when a potential claim by a Member Mr. Heath: There is a slight sense of a work in is not a black-and-white issue, no matter how well progress about this group of amendments, which is to drafted the guidance from IPSA might be. The provision be entirely expected when trying to translate into legislation of advice will therefore help the process. May I say to the Kelly Committee proposals and to refine the IPSA the Secretary of State that his acceptance, on this issue, legislation that we passed earlier in the year. of the substance of the amendment tabled by the shadow On pensions, I must say that I was disappointed in Leader of the House and myself, in a spirit of cross-party Committee that there had clearly been so little prior co-operation, is much appreciated? consultation with the trustees of the pension fund about Then we come to pensions. Since we met in Committee, the shape and detail of the legislation. It seems slightly it has become clear that the Secretary of State has taken bizarre that the amendments then tabled apparently on board many of the points raised in the debate, and had not been thought through properly in conjunction his amendments are a welcome step in the right direction. with the trustees such as to allow us to hear what they For example, they provide for member-nominated trustees had to say. However, that was the start of a process that, on the board of trustees, which will give members a by and large, has been productive, which is very good voice concerning their pension rights. As the chairman news. However, even today the Government amendments of the current board of trustees, my hon. Friend the before the House are subject to amendments tabled on Member for Bournemouth, West (Sir John Butterfill), behalf of the trustees, so clearly the process of reconciling said, the amendments tabled will provide their views had not reached a conclusion when those “better protection to pension scheme members and better governance amendments to the Bill were tabled. arrangements than those proposed at Committee stage.” 6.45 pm However, the trustees clearly had some concerns—hence We heard today that the Lord Chancellor is prepared a number of amendments were tabled in the name of to accept further amendments tabled on behalf of the my hon. Friend and his colleagues, and to be fair, as we trustees, which is good news, because it suggests that we have heard, the Government have accepted a number of are close to the point at which the two views can be them. For example, amendment 90 provides indemnity consolidated into a single whole to be put before the for the trustees of the fund, past and present. If that House. However, I must say that most Members are not was not made explicit in the Bill, we would certainly expert in this area and need, I think, the advice of those have problems trying to find people willing to serve as with much greater experience in order to understand trustees. Amendments (a) and (b) to amendment 64, some of the complexities of pension law. Nevertheless, which allow for more effective selection of member- even the least expert Member—probably me—recognised nominated trustees and a check on the payment of that the previous scheme, which did not provide for remuneration to trustees, are also highly sensible. board-level representation of recipients of the pension The Government, however, are not so supportive of scheme benefits, was out of kilter with what is considered another amendment tabled by the trustees. The Government good practice elsewhere. That obviously needed to be have helped to clarify that the scheme will continue to dealt with, hence the amendments before us. 859 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 860 Governance Bill Governance Bill I still do not understand entirely one slightly arcane advice that had been misconstrued be seen as a fault? point, although I hope that when I have heard the We are getting into a difficult area here, in trying to contribution from the hon. Member for Bournemouth, define fault on the part of IPSA. West (Sir John Butterfill), I will understand it better. It We should make a clear distinction between an concerns the distinction, in terms of language, between overpayment in which the Member had had no a “pension or future pension” and a “benefit or future involvement—for example, when they had claimed for a benefit”, which I understand to be the language of the certain amount and more had been put into their bank Pensions Act 1995—if I have got it right. I am not sure account, unbeknown to them—and a case in which a whether I understand what possible impact there could Member had claimed for an item of expenditure to be of changing the language from one to the other, which they were not entitled under the scheme. The key other than for the purposes of consistency. If that is the question is whether the Member would have incurred case, I should say that I am normally in favour of the expenditure, were it not for the advice—or clearance, consistency, but I shall be interested to hear the arguments if we are to put it that way—from IPSA that they took on either side. That said, it is not a critical factor, and before incurring it. It is not the claim that is the issue largely I appreciate the work that has been done, the but the expenditure. If a Member has simply been progress that has been made and the stance taken by the overpaid, there should be no question but that they Lord Chancellor. should pay it back. The money is not theirs. Whether I shall deal with the amendments relating to IPSA. they received it because of an error by IPSA is immaterial As I have said from the start, I believe that there are still to the fact that they are in possession of public moneys unanswered questions about the role of the compliance to which they are not entitled. officer. We discussed the matter in Committee, and I There is a strong argument for a degree of discretion was simply told that my concerns had no foundation—and in arranging the manner and timetable of the repayment, no foundations there remain, because the Lord Chancellor but we should not afford ourselves any discretion in has not put down any amendments about that role. statute as to whether the money should be repaid at all. After all, we do not allow such discretion to people who Mr. Straw: May I take the hon. Gentleman back to are overpaid through tax credits, for example. I regularly his question about the use of the terms “pension or meet people who are outraged because, having been future pension” and “benefit or future benefit”? It is a overpaid in that way, through no fault of their own, matter of drafting. “Pension or future pension” is a they are then being required to repay the money, often phrase used in the Parliamentary and other Pensions at an inconvenient time, even though they have often Act 1987, and the strong advice that I have had is that it spent it, perhaps on their children. This often happens is best to stick to that, because it is the foundation of to people who are not very well off. We should not give our scheme. “Benefit or future benefit” is used in the ourselves any latitude that we do not allow others when Pensions Act 1995. It is a matter of drafting and it comes to overpayment. cleanliness—and nothing else. A separate issue involves expenditure incurred as a Mr. Heath: I thought that that was the case. This is a result of an inquiry as to whether it was properly question of who or what we are going to be consistent allowable, the answer to which was yes. The expenditure, with. We cannot be consistent with both, but obviously which would not otherwise have been incurred, is then at some stage, there has been inconsistency between the made, and subsequently reclaimed. Again, the first two enactments—hence the problem. responsibility must rest with the individual Member, and not on the advice that they were given. If there is to Returning to IPSA, I was saying that I still have some be a discretion to excuse Members who have claimed concerns about exactly to whom the compliance officer money inappropriately from repaying it when the claim will be answerable, if anyone, and about the independence is determined to be inadmissible, I would expect that of their role, which will be critical to the operation of discretion to be used very sparingly, if at all. I can see the process. I welcome amendment 55, which provides why it is sensible to have some discretion, but I would for IPSA to supply guidance, both general and specific, like IPSA to issue clear instructions on when it is to Members. That function, however, must be separated appropriate to use it. I do not think that its use will be from that of the compliance officer. The compliance appropriate in most cases. officer cannot provide that advice, because they might find themselves taking a critical view of IPSA’s actions, Mark Durkan: The hon. Gentleman says that the and their independence of action would be frustrated discretion is unlikely to be used, but may I remind him from day one if they were also the source of such that we are talking only about provisional findings that advice. That has not been made explicit in the amendment, might emerge from an investigation by the compliance but no such linkage is suggested by it either. I hope, officer? If it were to emerge that something was wholly however, that IPSA will take note of my comments and or partly the fault of IPSA, that should be declared very ensure that the compliance officer is at least at one readily; otherwise, people would always entertain the remove from the provision of any such advice. suspicion that, so long as a matter relating to an MP The other principal area of amendment in this group had been referred and investigated, it would always be relates to the discretion given to the compliance officer the MP and only the MP who had done wrong. in dealing with Members who have been paid sums to which they are not entitled, when IPSA might be wholly Mr. Heath: I should like to make it plain to the hon. or partly at fault. This raises a number of questions. I Gentleman that I am not talking about the findings. do not intend to divide the House on this point, but I The findings should clearly state whether there was a should like clarification on the definition of fault in this reasonable case that a Member had been misled by the context. Obviously, a simple arithmetical error would authority. I am talking about the repayment direction, constitute a fault, but would a judgment based on which is a different matter. As I have said, we do not 861 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 862 Governance Bill Governance Bill extend any latitude to others. Her Majesty’s Revenue In amendments (a) and (b) to amendment 64, we and Customs do not do so, and the Treasury does not have put forward some technical amendments to the do so via the tax credit system. We must be very careful method of selection of members. Originally, we were in here. For heaven’s sake, if we have learnt one lesson over a position of having to go out to every single Member— the past year, it ought to be that we apply the same rules deferred members, retired members and sitting members— to ourselves as we apply to others. That is the plea that I and organise a huge ballot, which would have been am making, and I believe that that can be encompassed extremely complex and rather difficult to achieve. It in the amendments before us today, provided that the might not have achieved the selection of people with discretion is exercised appropriately. But I absolutely sufficient skills and knowledge to act within the trustee agree with the hon. Gentleman that findings that exonerate scheme. We are grateful that the Government will accept a Member from blame for a mistake made by others our amendment, which provides a good deal more should be made absolutely clear. There should be no flexibility and will work for the benefit of the scheme question about that, and if it needs to be set out in the as a whole. It will, of course, be consistent with way that it has been, that is entirely appropriate. That section 241(2)(b) of the Pensions Act 2004. Whatever would not necessarily excuse anyone from repayment, we do about our own schemes in this place, it is important however. that we comply with the requirements that we impose on everyone else in the nation; it would be wrong if that Sir John Butterfill (Bournemouth, West) (Con): The were not so. trustees are extremely grateful to the Justice Secretary, Under amendment (b), the Treasury would have to who has worked with us tirelessly of late to try to reach consent to the use of PCPF assets to remunerate trustees. agreement on these extremely complex matters. It is There again, we think it must be right that if IPSA is to important that we do not miss any issues, and that provide remuneration or allowances for trustees out of everything is properly understood. The trustees—and, the fund’s assets or for spending on other matters that ultimately, pensioners—will face unwelcome and unfair may arise, it must be right to protect the taxpayer by unintended consequences unless we get this right. The making that particular area subject to the Treasury’s trustees have a long track record of trying to act very consent. I am quite sure that IPSA would not expect sensibly—in the interests not only of Members but of anything else. taxpayers—in administering the scheme in the past. We Amendment 90 deals with have made a number of changes that have resulted in “the indemnification of the trustees (and former trustees) of the significant savings for the taxpayer. Fund”. I can now say that the Bill is much improved; I am As was said earlier, it would be impossible to find confident that there will be good will from IPSA if any anyone willing to serve as a trustee if they did not have matters remain unresolved. There are some instances, an indemnity; indeed, they would be stark raving mad if however, where the trustees felt it right to bring forward they did the job without having it. The indemnity will amendments at this stage because of the importance of come from the funds. We are grateful that the Secretary the issues for members of the scheme and the trustees of State has agreed to this. Currently, the 1993 regulations and because of the need for understanding of matters provide each trustee and former trustee with an indemnity that need to be shared. from the fund’s assets, except where prohibited by legislation or in cases of dishonesty, bad faith or recklessness—one hopes that none of those ever arises in the future. 7pm Although we should be confident that IPSA would not What I have to say about the Bill should be seen in the want to remove this indemnity, it is none the less context of the fundamental shift that is going to take inappropriate for IPSA alone to have the power to do so place, as recommended by Kelly, when future benefits without the consent of the trustees. for Members of this House are to be set by IPSA. That Amendments 94 and 95 require trustee consent to is what will happen and as it goes forward, the trustees aspects of proposed IPSA and Minister for the Civil will be consulted—but only consulted—on any future Service benefit powers. Amendment 94 would leave out scheme. Because of the complexity of pensions, however, “the provision specified in paragraph 24(2)” and the fact that current and former members have of schedule 7 and would insert the stated words in accrued rights within the pension scheme that should be sub-paragraphs (i), (ii) and (iii). I am sorry that these protected, the role of the trustees is important for the are rather complex amendments and apologise if they administration and the management of the scheme in are difficult to follow. Amendment 95 would insert the future. I hope that the trustees will be helpful to “except the provisions specified in paragraphs 21(1) and 26 unless IPSA in dealing with the most complex areas. with the consent of the trustees”. The trustees have tabled a number of amendments. I welcome the Justice Secretary’s agreement that After discussion with the Secretary of State, we have paragraph 21(1) of schedule 7, which empowers IPSA been quite happy to amend some of them in a minor or the MCS in relation to the Ministers’ scheme to way. Amendment 91—amendment 92 is related—states provide that the parliamentary contributory fund is a “trust “for the application of assets… in or towards the provision of scheme”. We put that in for the reason that we have pensions to be paid otherwise than out of the Fund”. always understood, as I think has everybody, that it is a There again, we think that if that happens, it should be trust scheme, so we felt that it would be sensible to show subject to the trustees’ consent, as it is not appropriate it on the face of the Bill. The Secretary of State has said to exercise those powers without the consent of the that he does not think it absolutely necessary because trustees, who have a duty to safeguard the interests of he has confirmed in this place that it is a trust scheme—I all the PCPF’s members. It is a historic power that has am sure that I am not misrepresenting him on that—so not been used and the safeguard of trustees’ consent is we will not press these amendments. necessary. 863 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 864 Governance Bill Governance Bill Paragraph 26 of schedule 7 empowers IPSA or the some rights may be contingent. People who retire because Minister for the Civil Service in relation to the Ministers’ of ill health, for example, will not know of their rights scheme to make before the new scheme starts, because those rights will “Provision conferring functions under the scheme on persons be contingent on the deterioration of their health. We specified in or determined under the scheme”, are grateful to the Secretary of State for supporting the and I welcome again the Secretary of State’s agreement amendment. Many private sector schemes provide similar to the amendment. Its purpose is to ensure that all the protection. functions currently exercised by the trustees in conjunction If the Government accept the amendment—which I with the relevant experts cannot be changed without the understand that they will—I shall want to put on record consent of the trustees. Commutation factors are relevant, the trustees’ recognition that the Government wish to for example. Although they are nominally brought in by empower IPSA to create a scheme relating to the pension the trustees, they are derived from work done by the benefits that Members of Parliament will earn in future. Government Actuary’s Department, which will periodically The protective words being sought in relation to rights clarify what the commutation factors should be in line that Members have earned are not intended in any way with changes in the market. We did not feel it appropriate to prevent IPSA from creating such a scheme. However, for the trustees themselves to dictate that; it should be the trustees consider it important for the contingent done through the use of some independent expert. rights of serving Members, which have been paid for by It is the same with provisions for ill health retirement. Members’ contributions, to be protected. Again, the trustees do not determine whether someone 7.15 pm is sufficiently ill to merit it. We go to an outside medical opinion, and whether or not someone is entitled to the Mr. Straw: I grateful to the hon. Members for ill health retirement will derive from whatever that Bournemouth, West (Sir John Butterfill), for North-West opinion might be. We think that that is a sensible Cambridgeshire (Mr. Vara) and for Somerton and Frome regime, which we imagine IPSA will wish to continue. (Mr. Heath) for the general welcome that they have I am losing my place here. Amendment 95 is, of given our proposals. I do not need to say much more course, consequential on amendment 94. Amendment 93 about them. deals with accrued rights protection. We must be sure The hon. Member for Bournemouth, West was good that the protection of accrued rights for members who enough to accept my explanations in respect of his have paid in—for many years in many cases—are suitably amendments (a) to amendment 76, (b) to amendment 74, robust. The amendment would thus insert after “puts”, (a) and (b) to amendment 80, and amendments 91 and the phrase “(or might put)”. We are pleased that the 92. A total of six amendments refer to only two issues, Secretary of State has agreed to that amendment. It will the substitution of “benefits” for “pensions” and the make the accrued rights protection consistent with issue of a trust scheme. I hope that in both instances my section 67A(4) of the Pensions Act 1995, which applies explanations have been adequate. to a modification that would or might affect subsisting The hon. Gentleman was also good enough to confirm rights. the view of the trustees, which I know is also the view of We tabled amendment (a) to Government amendment 74 the whole House—I paraphrase his words—that we to ensure that accrued rights would apply to all benefits, should stick faithfully to recommendation 43 of the not just pensions, because we were aware that some Kelly report, which states: benefits under the scheme were not really pensions. “The independent regulator should… therefore be given statutory Payment to a widow on the death of a Member, for responsibility for setting MPs’ pay levels and overseeing MPs’ instance, would not constitute a pension, but would fall pensions”. within the jurisdiction of the present scheme. We have The recommendation is more explicit about IPSA’s received assurances that the current drafting of the Bill power to set the terms and oversee the administration of does not limit accrued rights protection to pensions parliamentary pensions. generally, but includes benefits more widely. I believe that our proposals achieve the necessary balance. What I am about to say is almost otiose, but it Mr. Straw: That is the phrase used in the Parliamentary may just be worth my saying it. If it transpires following and other Pensions Act 1987. “Pensions” obviously the election—it will have to be then, but I hope that this includes other rights and benefits that are already being will become law—that because of the speed with which paid. I know, and have been advised, that the phrase is we have had to undertake these measures there are some widely drafted, but I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman glitches in the drafting, the House will have to return to for accepting that it is better to stick with the language the matter. However, given the explanations offered of the original foundation scheme than to adopt language by the hon. Member for Bournemouth, West on behalf that could, to my certain knowledge, produce consequential of the trustees and those offered by me, and given the problems. spirit in which the changes are being made, I hope that that will not be necessary. Sir John Butterfill: I am pleased to say that the legal Amendment 55 agreed to. advisers to the trustees have confirmed that that is an appropriate interpretation of the legislation. We will Clause 43 therefore not press the amendment to a vote, and the same applies to amendment 80 as amended by amendments (a) INVESTIGATIONS and (b). Amendment made: 56, page 25, line 7, at end insert We tabled amendments (a) to Government ‘, including findings that the member’s being paid an amount amendment 76 because although in the case of a new under the MPs’ allowances scheme that should not have been scheme all the accrued rights will be covered and secured, allowed was wholly or partly the IPSA’s fault.’.—(Mr. Straw.) 865 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 866 Governance Bill Governance Bill Schedule 5 Ministerial and other Pensions and Salaries Act 1991 (c. 5) 10 In section 4 (grants to persons ceasing to hold ministerial and PARLIAMENTARY STANDARDS ACT 2009: NEW other offices)— SCHEDULE 4 (a) omit subsection (3), Amendments made: 58, page 71, line 16, leave out (b) after that subsection insert— sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) and insert— “(3A) The annual amount of the salary paid to a person in ‘(2) The Compliance Officer— respect of the office of Chairman of Ways and Means or Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means is the difference between— (a) if sub-paragraph (2A) applies, may give the member a (a) the annual amount of the salary payable under direction under this paragraph (a “repayment direction”), section 4 of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009 to and a person holding that office, and (b) otherwise, must give the member a repayment direction. (b) the annual amount of the salary payable under that (2A) This sub-paragraph applies if the Compliance Officer has section to a member of the House of Commons who made findings under section 9(5) that the member’s being paid an does not hold an office or position specified in a amount under the MPs’ allowances scheme that should not have resolution of that House for the purposes of section been allowed was wholly or partly the IPSA’s fault. 4A(2) of that Act (higher salaries for holders of (3) A repayment direction must require the member to pay to specified offices or positions).”, and the IPSA— (c) omit subsection (7). (a) if sub-paragraph (2A) applies, such amount (not Scotland Act 1998 (c. 46) exceeding the amount of the overpayment) as the 11 (1) Section 82 (limits on salaries of MSPs) is amended as Compliance Officer considers reasonable, and follows. (b) otherwise, the amount of the overpayment. (2) In subsection (1)— (3A) The repayment direction must specify the period (the (a) before paragraph (a) insert— “repayment period”) before the end of which that amount is to be paid.’. “(za) under section 4 of the Parliamentary Standards Amendment 59, page 71, line 23, leave out ‘overpayment’ Act 2009 (salaries of members of the House of Commons),”, and and insert ‘amount mentioned in sub-paragraph (3)’. (b) in paragraph (a) for “either House of Parliament” Amendment 60, page 71, line 40, leave out ‘1(4)(b)’ substitute “the House of Lords”. and insert ‘1(4)(a) or (b)’. (3) In subsection (2)(b) for “(1)(a)” substitute “(1)(za), (a)”. Amendment 61, page 71, line 40, at end insert— Government of Wales Act 2006 (c. 32) ‘( ) The guidance must include guidance about whether the Compliance Officer should include such a requirement if 12 (1) Section 21 (limits on salaries of Assembly members) is paragraph 1(2A) applies.’. amended as follows. Amendment 62, page 72, line 10, at end insert— (2) In subsection (1)— ‘( ) if paragraph 1(2A) applies, the Compliance Officer’s (a) before paragraph (a) insert— decision to give the member a repayment direction; “(za) under section 4 of the Parliamentary Standards Act ( ) if paragraph 1(2A) applies, the amount the member is 2009 (salaries of members of the House of required to repay because of paragraph 1(3)(a);’.— Commons),”, and (Mr. Straw.) (b) in paragraph (a) for “either House of Parliament” substitute “the House of Lords”. Schedule 6 (3) In subsection (2)(b) for “(1)(a)” substitute “(1)(za), (a)”.’.—(Mr. Straw.) PARLIAMENTARY STANDARDS: CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS Amendment made: 63, page 77, line 41, at end insert— Schedule 7 ‘PART 2 PARLIAMENTARY AND OTHER PENSIONS AMENDMENTS OF OTHER ACTS Amendment proposed: 64, page 78, line 9, leave out European Parliament (Pay and Pensions) Act 1979 (c. 50) sub-paragraphs (2) to (4) and insert— 8 (1) In section 1(2) (salaries of MEPs) for paragraphs (a) and ‘Number and composition of trustees (b) substitute “the same as that of the salary payable for that period, under section 4 of the Parliamentary Standards 1A (1) The following are to be the trustees of the Fund— Act 2009, to a Member who does not hold an office or position (a) one person appointed by the IPSA after consulting the specified in a resolution of the House of Commons for the Minister for the Civil Service and the persons who purposes of section 4A(2) of that Act (higher salaries for holders are already trustees of the Fund, of specified offices or positions).” (b) one person appointed by the Minister for the Civil (2) Omit section 5 (salary to be used for calculating pension Service after consulting the IPSA and the persons benefits). who are already trustees of the Fund, and (3) In section 8(1) (interpretation) omit the definition of ““a (c) 8 persons nominated and selected in accordance with Member’s ordinary salary” and “a Member’s pensionable arrangements under paragraph 1B (“member- salary””. nominated trustees”). Parliamentary and other Pensions Act 1987 (c. 45) (2) Paragraphs 44 and 45 make transitional provision about the trustees of the Fund. 9 In section 5(2) (interpretation) for the words from “such resolutions” to the end substitute— Member-nominated trustees “(a) section 4 of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009, or 1B (1) The trustees of the Fund must make arrangements for (b) in relation to a time before that section was in force, the nomination and selection of member-nominated trustees. the resolutions of the House of Commons then in (2) The arrangements must provide for the member-nominated force relating to the remuneration of its members.” trustees to be— 867 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 868 Governance Bill Governance Bill (a) nominated as the result of a process in which all the Amendments made: 65, page 79, line 3, leave out members of a scheme under paragraph 7 and all the ‘number, qualification and’. members of a scheme under paragraph 11 are eligible to participate, and Amendment 66, page 79, line 19, at beginning insert— (b) selected as the result of a process in which all those ‘( ) The IPSA may make a scheme under paragraph 3 only with persons are eligible to participate. the consent of the trustees of the Fund.’. (3) The arrangements must— Amendment 67, page 79, line 22, leave out paragraph (c). (a) include provision for the nomination and selection Amendment 68, page 79, line 28, leave out paragraph (a). process to take place within a reasonable period of any vacancy arising, Amendment 69, page 80, line 22, leave out from ‘with the’ to ‘make’ in line 23 and insert ‘relevant consents,’. (b) include provision, where a vacancy is not filled because insufficient nominations are received, for the Amendment 70, page 80, line 24, at end insert— nomination and selection process to be repeated at ‘(1A) The “relevant consents” means— reasonable intervals until the vacancy is filled, and (a) if the result of making the provision is that the amount (c) include provision that, where the IPSA or the Minister of the Exchequer contribution in respect of any financial for the Civil Service so requires, a person who is not a year is less than it otherwise would be, the consent of member of a scheme under paragraph 7 and is not a the Treasury, the Minister for the Civil Service and member of a scheme under paragraph 11 must have the trustees of the Fund, and the approval of the IPSA or the Minister for the Civil Service to qualify for selection as a member-nominated (b) otherwise, the consent of the Treasury and the trustee. Minister for the Civil Service.’. (4) The arrangements may include provision that where the Amendment 71, page 80, line 28, after ‘(a)’ insert number of nominations received is equal to or less than the ‘(if sub-paragraph (1A)(a) does not apply)’. number of vacancies, the nominees are to be treated as selected (subject to sub-paragraph (3)(c)). Amendment 72, page 80, line 28, after ‘Fund,’ insert— Remuneration ‘( ) the Government Actuary,’. 1C (1) The IPSA may provide for remuneration and Amendment 73, page 81, line 24, after ‘as’ insert ‘in allowances to be payable to the trustees of the Fund. service as’.—(Mr. Straw.) (2) Any such remuneration and allowances are to be paid from Amendments made: 94, page 82, line 6, leave out ‘the the assets of the Fund. provision specified in paragraph 24(2)’ and insert— Resignation and removal of trustees ‘(i) the provision specified in paragraph 21(1), unless 1D (1) A person appointed as a trustee of the Fund by the with the consent of the trustees of the Fund, IPSA under paragraph 1A(1)(a)— (ii) the provision specified in paragraph 26, unless with (a) may resign by giving written notice to the IPSA, and the consent of the trustees of the Fund, and (b) may be removed by the IPSA after consulting the (iii) the provision specified in paragraph 24(2)’. Minister for the Civil Service and all the other trustees of the Fund. Amendment 95, page 83, line 24, at end insert (2) A person appointed as a trustee of the Fund by the ‘, except the provisions specified in paragraphs 21(1) and Minister for the Civil Service under paragraph 1A(1)(b)— 26 unless with the consent of the trustees of the Fund’. (a) may resign by giving written notice to the Minister for Amendment 93, page 84, line 16, after ‘puts’, insert the Civil Service, and ‘(or might put)’.—(Sir John Butterfill.) (b) may be removed by the Minister for the Civil Service Amendments made: 74, page 84, line 18, leave out after consulting the IPSA and all the other trustees of from ‘if’ to end of line 28 and insert— the Fund. ‘(a) the trustees of the Fund consent to the new scheme (3) A person who is a member-nominated trustee— making the provision, and (a) may resign by giving written notice to the other (b) the person making the new scheme is satisfied that the trustees of the Fund, and consent requirement is met. (b) may be removed by all the other trustees of the Fund acting together. (4) The consent requirement is met if under the new scheme the provision has effect in relation to an accrued right only with Proceedings the written consent, given in accordance with sub- 1E (1) Subject to any provision contained in a scheme under paragraph (4A), of— paragraph 3 because of paragraph 3(1)(c), the trustees of the (a) the person (“P”) in respect of whose service the right Fund may determine their own procedure. has accrued, or (2) The validity of any proceedings of the trustees of the Fund (b) if P is dead, the persons (“the survivors”) who because is not affected by— of the accrued right are entitled, or may become (a) a vacancy among the trustees, or entitled, to a pension or the benefit of any pension. (b) a defect in the appointment of a trustee.’.— (4A) Consent is given in accordance with this sub-paragraph if (Mr. Straw.) it is given after the person making the scheme has given P (or the Amendments made to amendment 64: (a), in survivors)— paragraph 1B(2)(b), after ‘which’, insert ‘some or’. (a) information in writing which adequately explains the Amendment (b), in paragraph 1C(1), after ‘may’, nature of the provision and its effect, insert (b) notice in writing that they may make representations about the provision, ‘with the consent of the Treasury’.—(Sir John Butterfill.) (c) an adequate opportunity to make such representations, Amendment 64, as amended, agreed to. and Amendment made: 90, page 79, line 2, at end insert— (d) notice in writing that the provision has effect in ‘(bb) the indemnification of the trustees (and former relation to the accrued right only with their written trustees) of the Fund’.—(Sir John Butterfill.) consent. 869 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 870 Governance Bill Governance Bill (4B) Consent may be given by a person acting on behalf of P Amendment 85, page 91, line 24, after ‘means’ insert (or the survivors); and the references in sub-paragraph (4A) to P ‘the’. (or the survivors) include a person acting on their behalf.’. Amendment 86, page 91, line 25, at end insert Amendment 75, page 84, line 29, leave out ‘(3)(a)’ and insert ‘(4)(a)’.—(Mr. Straw.) ‘in force immediately before the date specified in an order made by a Minister of the Crown by statutory instrument. Amendment proposed: 76, page 84, line 36, leave out ( ) An order under sub-paragraph (8) may specify different sub-paragraphs (2) and (3) and insert— dates for different purposes.’. ‘(2) “Accrued right”, in relation to a provision of the new Amendment 87, page 92, line 4, leave out ‘1’ and scheme, means a right or entitlement to or in respect of a pension insert ‘1A to 1D’ or future pension payable out of the Fund which has accrued in respect of service before the provision comes into force. Amendment 88, page 92, line 7, at end insert— (3) If the person in respect of whose service the right or ‘( ) In paragraph 29(2) of Schedule 1 (interpretation) in the entitlement has accrued is in service when the provision comes definition of “regulation functions” after “18(2)” insert into force, the right or entitlement is to be determined as if the “and (3)”. person left service immediately before then.’.—(Mr. Straw.) 43 (1) An order under section 13 of the Parliamentary Amendments made to amendment 76: (a), after ‘means Standards Act 2009 may make the provision mentioned in a right’, insert ‘(including a contingent right)’. section 13(6) (provision for transfer schemes) in connection with this Schedule (as well as in connection with that Act). Amendment (c), leave out sub-paragraph (3).—(Sir John (2) But for this purpose— Butterfill.) (a) the reference in section 13(6)(a) to matters dealt with Amendment 76, as amended, agreed to. by the rules is to be treated as a reference to matters Amendments made: 77, page 85, line 4, leave out which could be dealt with by a scheme under paragraph (a). paragraph3or7; Amendment 78, page 85, line 8, leave out paragraph (a). (b) section 13(6)(b) and (c) does not apply to property, rights and liabilities, or documents and information, Amendment 79, page 85, line 12, leave out sub- held by or on behalf of the trustees of the Fund. paragraph (6). (3) Section 13(7) of that Act applies to a scheme made by Amendment 80, page 85, line 31, at end insert— virtue of section 13(6) and this paragraph. ‘( ) For the purposes of this Schedule “member”— Trustees of the Fund (a) in relation to a scheme under paragraph 7, means a 44 (1) This paragraph applies if, under an order under person with service as a member of the House of section 90, paragraph 1A comes into force for the purpose of Commons who, in respect of that service, has a right making an appointment under paragraph 1A(1)(a) or (b) before or entitlement under the scheme to a pension or it comes into force for other purposes. future pension payable out of the Fund, and (2) The reference in paragraph 1A(1)(a) or (b) to the persons who are already trustees of the Fund is to the persons who are (b) in relation to a scheme under paragraph 11 , means a trustees of the Fund by virtue of section 1 of the Parliamentary person with service to which that paragraph applies and other Pensions Act 1987 (c. 45). who, in respect of that service, has a right or entitlement under the scheme to a pension or future 45 (1) In this paragraph “the transitional period” means the pension payable out of the Fund.’. period of six months beginning with the day on which Amendment 81, page 85, line 35, at end insert— paragraph 1A comes into force (other than for the purpose of making an appointment under paragraph 1A(1)(a) or (b)). ‘“member-nominated trustee” has the meaning given (2) During the transitional period— by paragraph 1A;’. (a) paragraph 1A(1) applies as if for paragraph (c) there Amendment 82, page 90, line 38, leave out from were substituted— beginning to ‘may’ in line 41 and insert— “(c) the persons who (by virtue of section 1 of the ‘(1) The existing regulations have effect (subject to any Parliamentary and other Pensions Act 1987) are the provision in an order under section 89 of this Act)— trustees of the Fund immediately before the beginning of the transitional period.”, and (a) so far as they relate to matters which could be contained in a scheme made by the IPSA under (b) paragraph 1D applies to persons who are trustees of paragraph 3, as if they were a scheme made by the the Fund because of paragraph (a) as if they were IPSA under that paragraph, member-nominated trustees. (3) But if a person who is a trustee of the Fund immediately (b) so far as they relate to matters which could be before the beginning of the transitional period is appointed contained in a scheme made by the IPSA under under paragraph 1A(1)(a) or (b) that person is not to be treated paragraph 7, as if they were a scheme made by the as being a trustee of the Fund because of sub-paragraph (2)(a). IPSA under that paragraph, and (4) The trustees of the Fund must make arrangements (the (c) so far as they relate to matters which could be “transitional arrangements”) for 8 persons to be nominated and contained in a scheme made by the Minister for the selected as member-nominated trustees before the end of the Civil Service under paragraph 11, as if they were a transitional period. scheme made by the Minister under that paragraph. (5) Those persons become member-nominated trustees (2) An order under section 89 or 90 of this Act’. immediately after the end of the transitional period. Amendment 83, page 91, line 8, leave out ‘The order’ (6) Only persons who are trustees of the Fund immediately and insert before the beginning of the transitional period may be ‘An order under section 89 or 90 of this Act’. nominated and selected as member-nominated trustees under the transitional arrangements. Amendment 84, page 91, line 16, leave out ‘The order’ and insert (7) But if it is not possible to secure 8 member-nominated trustees from among those persons, the deficiency may be ‘An order under section 89 or 90 of this Act’. supplied by other persons. 871 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 872 Governance Bill Governance Bill (8) At the end of the transitional period any persons who— (1) If either House of Parliament, or a committee of either (a) immediately before the end of that period, are trustees House of Parliament, intends to meet in a building outside the of the Fund because of sub-paragraph (2)(a), but Palace of Westminster, the Secretary of State may by order made (b) have not been nominated and selected as member- by statutory instrument specify that the building shall count as nominated trustees, part of the Houses of Parliament for the purposes of section 14ZA on the day or days that the meeting is taking place. cease to be trustees of the Fund.’.—(Mr. Straw.) (2) A statutory instrument containing an order under this section may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has Clause 59 been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament. DEMONSTRATIONS ETC IN THE VICINITY OF For the purposes of this section, the Speaker may delegate the PARLIAMENT matter referred to in section 14ZA(2) to the person who is in the chair of the relevant meeting.’. Mrs. Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): I beg to Amendment 20, page 97, line 1, leave out ‘300’ and move amendment 2, page 33, line 16, leave out ‘section 132 insert ‘250’. to 138’ and insert Amendment 21, page 97, line 19, leave out from ‘any’ ‘sections 132 to 136 and section 138.’. to ‘used’ in line 20 and insert ‘day on which the specified building is’. Mr. Deputy Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 8, page 33, line 18, Amendment 22, page 97, leave out line 23. leave out subsection (2). Amendment 18, page 97, leave out lines 29 and 30. Amendment 9, page 95, line 15, leave out schedule 9. Amendment 25, page 97, line 30, at end insert Amendment 10, in schedule 9, page 95, line 21, leave ‘in relation to how the specified requirements for maintaining out from ‘procession’ to end of line 18 on page 55 and access to and from the specified building shall be met’. insert Amendment 16, page 97, leave out lines 31 to 33 and ‘or a public assembly that is having the effect of preventing insert— reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament. ‘(9) A statutory instrument containing an order under this (2) The Speaker of the House of Commons shall decide section must be approved by both Houses of Parliament.’. whether reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament has been Amendment 3, page 97, leave out lines 36 to 40 and prevented. insert— (3) If the Speaker has decided under subsection (2) that ‘Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (c. 15) reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament has been prevented, the senior police officer may, for the purpose of 2 (9) In section 137, the following amendments are made in restoring reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament, give relation to the use of amplified noise equipment and other directions to any person who is organising or taking part in the devices designed to produce noise in the area around Parliament. public procession or public assembly. (10) For “loudspeaker” wherever it occurs substitute “amplified noise equipment or other device designed to produce (4) The directions referred to in subsection (3) must be noise”. necessary for the purpose of restoring access to the Houses of Parliament and proportionate to that purpose.’. (11) In subsection (1) leave out “in a street in the designated area” and insert “in the area around Parliament, as specified by Amendment 17, page 95, leave out lines 40 and 41. order under section 14ZB of the Public Order Act 1986”. Amendment 24, page 95, line 41, at end insert (12) In subsection (2), leave out paragraph (i). ‘in relation to how the specified requirements for maintaining (13) After subsection (3) insert— access to and from the Palace of Westminster shall be met’. “(3A) A police officer shall, on receipt of a complaint of Amendment 14, page 96, leave out lines 1 to 3 and excessive noise caused by amplified noise equipment or other insert— device designed to produce noise, have the power— ‘(6) A statutory instrument containing an order under this (a) to require the operator to desist, and section must be approved by both Houses of Parliament.’. (b) in the event of non-compliance, to seize the amplified Amendment 26, page 96, line 5, leave out ‘include’ noise equipment or other device designed to produce and insert ‘are limited to’. noise and to retain it as long as it is deemed necessary. Amendment 11, page 96, leave out lines 15 to 18. (3B) The powers available under subsection (3A) above may be Amendment 12, page 96, leave out lines 21 to 39. exercised by the most senior police officer in the immediate Amendment 19, page 96, line 27, leave out ‘300’ and vicinity of the source of the noise.”. insert ‘250’. (14) In subsection (6) leave out “or of” and insert “save where Amendment 30, page 96, line 28, leave out ‘the nearest prohibited under”.’. relevant entrance’ and insert Amendment 23, page 98, line 4, leave out paragraph 5. ‘the point nearest to it in Parliament Square’. Amendment 31, page 96, leave out lines 29 to 36. Mrs. Laing: Although amendment 2 is the lead amendment, it is to amendment 3, proposed by the Amendment 15, page 96, leave out lines 37 to 39 and Conservatives, that I should like to address my remarks. insert— It would amend the Serious Organised Crime and Police ‘(5) A statutory instrument containing an order under this Act 2005 in respect of activities in Parliament square. section must be approved by both Houses of Parliament.’. The amendment would empower the most senior police Amendment 13, page 96, line 40, leave out from officer present, first, to require the operator of amplified beginning to end of line 35 on page 97 and insert— noise equipment to desist and, secondly, to confiscate ‘14ZB Special provision for a House or Committee the equipment on receipt of a complaint about excessive meeting outside Palace of Westminster noise. 873 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 874 Governance Bill Governance Bill Mr. Heath: I spent rather a large part of my life We also understand that there are practicalities to dealing with the Serious Organised Crime and Police consider. I am being intentionally brief because we have Act in Committee and on Report. One of the criticisms, so much more of the Bill to get through—once again, which I thought Conservative Front Benchers at the we do not have enough time to do that—and I believe time shared, was of the provision that allowed for the that most hon. Members are well aware of the problem. powers under that Act in respect of Parliament square The Government are also well aware of the problem to be exercised by an officer of no higher rank than and have been sympathetic to various plans over the constable. Is it not the case that what the hon. Lady is years to try to sort it out. They have themselves tried to proposing today revisits that issue, with Conservatives legislate to improve the situation in Parliament square. on the other side of the argument? The nearest available Frankly, they have failed but I am not blaming them—this police officer may well simply be a constable, yet she is is not a party political matter; it is a matter of principle proposing that that constable be given these powers. and of getting the balance right. Allowing freedom of speech is of course essential in our free country, and Mrs. Laing: No, the hon. Gentleman is nit-picking. freedom of speech in the vicinity of Parliament is The intention of amendment 3—[Interruption.] We are totally right. It is the freedom and the right of every discussing the general principle, although I agree that person in this country to be able to tell Parliament what we are also discussing the particulars. I do not see that they think, but that has to be balanced with the practicality there is a conflict between what was said some years ago of having, effectively, chaos and constant noise in Parliament and what is being said now. However, if there is a square. conflict, my answer is simply that what is on today’s amendment paper is what we are proposing today and Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): Is my hon. that is what I am putting before the House now. Friend aware of any other legislature in the world that Mr. Heath: It is the opposite. would allow the chaos—the unregulated behaviour—that goes on outside our front doors? Mrs. Laing: If it is the opposite of what some colleagues of mine said some years ago, so be it—this is what we Mrs. Laing: My hon. Friend makes an extremely propose today. The hon. Gentleman is wasting time. We good point. I know of no other legislature that would have very little time to get through the rest of this Bill. If put up with the chaos and mess that is out there now. I he does not want powers to be taken to sort out the am always a great defender of freedom of speech. chaos in Parliament square, he is entitled to say so, but Freedom of the individual is the most important thing we are discussing what is in front of us now. that this Parliament stands for. If we do not stand for The Bill as it stands does not provide an alternative that, we stand for nothing, but because some people arrangement for dealing with an effective sanction by have set up camp in Parliament square and effectively completely removing the illegality of the offence. We all have a monopoly on that bit of ground, from which know that people who work in the buildings surrounding they can be most noisy and disrupt this place, other Parliament square are particularly affected by the use of people who may wish to come for a day or an hour to amplified loudspeakers, which are used almost constantly make a short protest about something about which they by protesters. We in this Chamber are protected. We care and that affects their families, town or principles, cannot hear the noise when we are in here, but it is the do not have the freedom of speech that they should people who work for us and the people who run the have. The people who have already set up camp and parliamentary offices and Government Departments established their monopoly are in a strong position and who are affected. The vast majority of people who have are preventing other people from having the freedom of complained are not Members of Parliament. There may speech that they deserve. be a feeling out there that Members of Parliament get what they deserve, and fair enough, but that is not the Mr. David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside) (Lab): I point. The point is that it is their long-suffering secretaries, have enormous sympathy with the hon. Lady’s points. assistants and researchers who bear much of the distress How could I not, as I have made them in the past? and disturbance. Would she be prepared not to press the amendment, to My hon. Friend the Member for New Forest, East allow a cross-party, sensible approach to be adopted, (Dr. Lewis)—I hope that he will be able to address the rather than this being seen as adversarial? House on the matter shortly; he has campaigned effectively on the issue for some time—has received 52 complaints. 7.30 pm I hope that he will not go into great detail on all 52, but Mrs. Laing: I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s I am sure that he will give us a flavour of them. For that point but I had hoped that this debate was not adversarial. reason, I will not go into those details, because he is well I had the impression that the amendment has support able to do so. However, 52 people have complained and on both sides of the House. I do not wish to be there are many more who agree with them because their adversarial at all. Unfortunately, when a similar amendment professional lives are frequently made more difficult was tabled in Committee we ran out of time and it was and distressing by what can only be described as harassment not debated. If at that stage the right hon. Gentleman from the protesters in Parliament square. had made such a request, I would certainly have acceded If the intention behind amplifying at such volumes is to it. Now, alas, it is too late because we are running out to penetrate the walls of Parliament and reach the of time. It is a pity that this long, ever-expanding and legislators within, frankly, it does not work. It is impossible important Bill did not have more time in Committee, to distinguish what is being said, so although the which would have allowed his proposed solution to enormously disturbing sound is loud, the message is not prevail. I accept that he knows a great deal about the transmitted to its intended audience. Thus the aim of issue and that he is one of those who, very reasonably, penetrating Parliament to convey a message is lost. tried to sort it out. 875 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 876 Governance Bill Governance Bill Mr. Swire: My hon. Friend, who is being very indulgent David Howarth: It applies in the sense that if noise in giving way, makes an extremely good point: many gets entirely out of hand, environmental health standards who might like to protest here over a particular issue are come in. If it does not apply, it will be for human rights effectively debarred from doing so because of the almost reasons, in which case there is nothing that the amendment permanent campsite in Parliament square. Might not can do about it as it would violate the Human Rights one approach be to say that any demonstration in Act and the European convention on human rights. future should be an accompanied demonstration and Either way, the hon. Gentleman cannot go down that that people should not just be allowed to set up camp route. and disappear, effectively leaving the site unmanned? Even if the statute does not apply, there is the common law of public nuisance, which has been applied to Mrs. Laing: My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. demonstrations for centuries. That is one possible solution. Good ideas are now coming forward—I am sure that there will be more Dr. Lewis: Can I tell the hon. Gentleman—not in a from other parts of the House—and it is a great pity partisan, spiteful or exasperated way—that all these that we did not have the opportunity in Committee to alternative remedies have been explored with Westminster explore the matter further. That would also have given council and the police, and none of them applies? None the Minister a chance to put the Government’s point of of them works. The only sanction that could ever be view. I am sure that we could have achieved a consensus. imposed would be to report the matter to the courts. If It is still my hope that we will achieve a consensus this at the end of that there were a judgment, a fine would evening because the vast majority of people who work be paid by someone else. Nothing can be done to stop and live in and around Parliament square want to see the noise other than a right of confiscation of equipment. the current chaos removed and order put in its place. I want to see freedom of speech and the opportunity for David Howarth: First, the hon. Gentleman seems freedom of speech for every citizen in this country, not unwilling to accept the rule of law; he wants to exempt just those who now monopolise Parliament square. himself from the ordinary courts. I do not see how that is acceptable. Secondly, there is already a right of David Howarth: I am sorry to disappoint the hon. confiscation of noise-making equipment—stereos and Lady, but I do not think there is consensus on the issue, so on—under environmental health law. Many of us and the more she spoke, the more I realised why there is have been local councillors and have seen the police use not. I do not think that there is chaos outside; far from this power in conjunction with environmental health it. I have seen chaos and that is not chaos. It is untidy officers. If it turns out that Westminster council is not and annoying for people who like everything to be neat, very efficient, I suggest that Conservative Members tidy and orderly, but it is not chaos. I oppose the should address themselves to their fellow party members amendment, first, because I do not think that there is who run that council. much of a problem and, secondly, to the extent that There is a third way in which demonstrations can be there is a problem, the means already exist for dealing brought to an end; it is if they cause serious disruption with it. to the life of the community, as contained in section 14 Parliament is situated in the middle of a city; it is not of the Public Order Act. If the hon. Gentleman wants in the middle of the countryside. One cannot expect to tell me that that cannot be used, I can tell him that I total silence in the middle of a city. The evidence of the have seen it myself being used at the G20 demonstration. noise that we hear—it was accepted by the Government It is not the case that there is no remedy. in their consultation exercise—showed that it was no more annoying than traffic noise. [Laughter.] It might I find the details of the amendment even more be that I have lived a more urban life than members of extraordinary. Confiscating all amplified noise equipment the Conservative party; I am almost certain that I have. seems to me to amount to banning speeches at any The idea that one cannot work in a city that is somewhat demonstration in the vicinity of Parliament. Anyone noisy would come as a great surprise to most of the who has tried to make a speech outside in a noisy city inhabitants of London and all our great cities, and will know how difficult it is to make oneself heard. This certainly to the inhabitants of New York. The idea that seems to be a direct attempt to make sure that people one cannot work except in total silence is extraordinary. cannot have their voice heard at organised demonstrations. If I think of occasions when my own work and that of Also, the Government picked up in their consultation my office in the precincts of the Palace has been disrupted, that in a demonstration it is quite important for the it has not been by protests outside but by the helicopter stewards and organisers to be able to get their point that we sometimes hear—whether it is a police or MOD across to keep order within their demonstration. Having helicopter, I am not sure—or by noise from the river to do that without the assistance of any amplification traffic, which is the kind of thing that one expects if one would make demonstrations more dangerous for the lives and works in a major city. people taking part. To the extent that there is a problem, I cannot see why There is a further point. It is often said—I have heard we need special protection in this House, and why we it said from the Conservative Front Bench as well as my cannot use the general law. I cannot see why we should party’s—that any power we grant will end up being give ourselves some kind of special position legally. abused. A power is being granted here to seize any There are three obvious existing legal methods for dealing device designed to make a noise. That could cover with any problem that arises. First, there is statutory almost anything—buckets, balloons or party poppers, nuisance—environmental health legislation. for instance. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs. Laing) is looking amazed, but all those Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East) (Con): I wish things were seized by the police in the Kingsnorth that the hon. Gentleman were right—I really do—but demonstration in Kent, on the grounds that they were that does not apply to political protests. going to be used in illegal ways. [Interruption.] The 877 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 878 Governance Bill Governance Bill hon. Member for Hendon has reminded me of the pre-emptive power that protestors might think would other things that were seized. I will not recount them be used against them any way. It is my view that we can all, but they included clown suits. The point here is that move forward in this area with a proportionate power if one grants the police a power in respect of policing to deal with any real problems that might arise, not a protest, experience shows that that power will be abused power that can be used pre-emptively without any real to interfere in the right to protest. I therefore cannot go problem having yet occurred. down the route the hon. Lady proposes at all; I am sorry to have to tell her that she will not find consensus 7.45 pm in support of her proposals from my party, or, I hope, Dr. McCrea: Why would a senior police officer be from the Labour party. needed to protect the right of access to this House? I shall now turn to the other 18 amendments in this group that were tabled by me and my hon. Friend the David Howarth: Actually, under amendment 10 it is Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath). the Speaker who decides that reasonable access has [Interruption.] I apologise to the hon. Member for been prevented, which is a rather more traditional way Hendon for forgetting about his amendments—which of doing things, and then the Speaker gives the authorisation are very moderate, I might add. The purpose of our through a senior police officer. The senior police officer amendments is to go in the opposite direction from the simply gets to say precisely what it is the demonstrators amendments tabled by Conservative Front Benchers. have to do in order to restore access. I think that ought Our amendments would further protect the right to to be a senior police officer, because this is an important protest and freedom of speech. interference with an important right and, as we have Amendments 8 and 9 would simply remove from the learned from many examples of policing protest, giving Bill the whole replacement regime for the Serious Organised that kind of discretion to junior police officers is simply Crime and Police Act 2005 regime. There is no obvious asking for trouble. need for extra powers against demonstrations in the I do not want to go through the 17 other amendments, vicinity of Parliament. However, I accept that we had a but I want to ask the Government about a particular vote on that in Committee—there was no debate, but problem that is raised in our amendments 19, 20, 30 and there was a vote—so instead of trying to explain why I 31. The problem has arisen because the Government think there is no need for this replacement legislation, I amended their own Bill in Committee without any want to make a case for amendment 10, which offers a debate. They extended by a very great extent the area compromise between our view and the Government’s. around Parliament that is covered by the replacement regime. Westminster bridge is now covered, as is a large The Government propose a system of prior restraint section of Whitehall. Victoria Tower gardens is covered, under which the authorities can take pre-emptive action, too, in a way that it was not covered before. I am not where they think there might be interference with access sure why it was thought necessary to increase the area to this House. We think that it would be perfectly by so much. adequate to have no prior restraint, but instead to have powers that allow the police to ensure that access to the The Minister for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism House is preserved—we do not think that that is absolutely (Mr. David Hanson): That was undertaken after discussion necessary, but we are assuming for the purposes of this with the House authorities, to ensure that we have amendment that we are wrong about that. Amendment 10 appropriate access to the House in the event of a removes the pre-emptive powers and replaces them with demonstration. provisions for what could happen, if it turns out that access to this House is being interfered with by protest. David Howarth: That is an interesting reply.Westminster A senior police officer would be able, but only in bridge is included, as I have said. Is the idea to be able circumstances where the Speaker decides that reasonable to clear that bridge in a way that was not done in the access to the Palace is being prevented, to give directions Tamil demonstration? I wonder whether the Minister’s to anyone organising or taking part in the demonstration definition of access includes a very broad notion of to do whatever is necessary to restore order. what one needs in order to get access to the House. I have to say that during the Tamil demonstration, I did Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): I recall that not have any difficulty getting into the House, because I when we discussed policing and protest in Westminster came by tube, and the tube station was never blocked. Hall on the basis of my Committee’s report, the hon. Mr. Heath: My hon. Friend may not recall this, as I Gentleman endorsed the consensus view that there should do not think that he was a Member of the House at the be no surprises in respect of policing and protest. Is not time, but during the debates on the Serious Organised what he is proposing here likely to lead to that very Crime and Police Act 2005, the Government’s original problem of surprise action by the police? It does not contention involved a radius of 1 mile around the encourage what he and I would like to see—negotiations Houses of Parliament, which was excessive. That was between police and protestors to deal with any problems. another point on which the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats were at one in criticising the Government, David Howarth: I do not agree with that, because the although it seems that a different view now prevails existence of the power would be known to both sides. among the Conservatives. The point about there being no surprises is not to do with the law; it is to do with contact, negotiation and David Howarth: Yes, it will be interesting to see talks between protestors and police, so that both sides whether they still hold that view. The problem for me is know where the other stands. A power of that sort whether the purpose is really to maintain access to the would not interfere with that process. In fact, it might House itself, or instead to stop demonstrations that encourage more contact, because it would not be a simply annoy people to some extent. 879 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 880 Governance Bill Governance Bill [David Howarth] The new section 14ZA (2) proposed in schedule 9 empowers a police officer to impose conditions if Let me explain one final query, which is raised by our “in the officer’s reasonable opinion” amendment 21. Schedule 9 includes provision for the they are “necessary”. That is a very broad power. We Bill’s regulations to be extended beyond Parliament understand that the intention is to issue a circular to the itself to any building that Parliament is using—I suppose Metropolitan police and others containing guidance. an example would be a building in which a Regional According to a previous ministerial reply, it will state that Committee is meeting off site. The regulation of demonstrations that the schedule creates would exist for “it is important that the police, Parliamentarians and those wishing to demonstrate around Parliament are clear about maintaining a week around such a building. Why opt for a week? access to and from the Palace of Westminster means”. Why not just opt for the day on which Parliament is proposing to use the building? It was explained that the guidance will contain the considerations that the police will need to take into This approach raises a more general issue about account before giving directions that are reasonably proportionality, which is addressed in the amendments believed to be necessary. We know from the other work tabled by the hon. Member for Hendon, because this is we have been doing recently that the Association of another example of a power being sought that is Chief Police Officers manual is being revised, so perhaps disproportionate to the problem at hand. Why is it when the Minister replies he will be able to say what necessary to control demonstrations for a week when progress has been made on that revision, because it is Parliament or a parliamentary Committee is meeting in urgently needed. a building for only one day? This debate is about the untidiness of democracy. I know that it offends some The Committee agrees with the Minister that it is people and that some people find it difficult to cope vital that the police, parliamentarians and protestors with, but that is democracy—democracy means an untidy are clear about the level of access that is envisaged, but populace who will have their say. I do not think that we our concern is that the “reasonable opinion” of an should do any more to get in their way. officer is a subjective test. That raises the risk of uncertainty as to what an individual officer will or will not deem to Mr. Dismore: I wish to discuss amendments 24, 25 and be “reasonable” in the circumstances, and that is a 26, which stand in my name on behalf of the Joint recipe for problems. It can lead to confusion for protestors, Committee on Human Rights, and I draw the attention police officers and those seeking access. Again, this goes of hon. Members to our report that has been tagged for this back to the point about trying to eliminate the risk of debate. Not only were the amendments part of our scrutiny surprises, either from the demonstrators or the police, report on this Bill, but they give effect in large part to as that is what inevitably leads to some of the problems what we had to say in our report on policing and protest. that we have seen. Our approach very much chimes with First, I shall deal with the good news from the the recommendations made by the chief inspector of Minister’s point of view. My Committee very much constabulary in “Adapting to Protest—Nurturing the welcomes the Government’s decision to legislate to repeal British model of Policing” following the G20 meeting. sections 132 to 138 of the Serious Organised Crime and The Committee welcomes the Minister’s commitment Police Act 2005 and, in particular, their decision to to publishing guidance, but it is important that the amend the Public Order Act 1986 to deal with protest guidance makes clear the kind of conditions that are around Parliament. Such an approach is consistent with reasonable for an officer to impose. We desperately need much of the evidence we received during our policing there to be up-to-date and accurate guidance on policing and protest inquiry and gives effect to the recommendations protest in a wide variety of circumstances for police that we made in our reports on this issue. As we have throughout the country and we urge ACPO and the stated, sections 132 to 138 have proved too heavy-handed Home Office to ensure that the various manuals are in practice, are difficult to police and lack widespread rapidly updated to take account of the proposed new acceptance by the public. I shall not go into the detail powers in the Bill. now, because we have dealt with the matter at great The second general point I wish to make concerns the length in our Westminster Hall debate on the report on order-making powers of the Secretary of State. He policing and protest. I know that he was not able to be would be given a power to specify requirements that there because of his duties upstairs, but I am sure that must be met to maintain access. One of the Committee’s he has followed the debate. concerns is that proposed new section 14ZA(7) represents My Committee also welcomes the decision to reduce a non-exhaustive list. We believe that it would be far the area around Parliament in which special requirements better to have a restricted list in the Bill to ensure legal will apply, but I, too, have concerns in respect of the certainty. Thus, my amendment 26 would remove the extension from 250 metres to 300 metres. What has been word “include” before proposed is a more proportionate response, which is “conditions as to the route of the procession” less intrusive on individual rights to freedom of association to say that those conditions should be “limited to” that and expression than the existing arrangements. However, route the overall thrust of my amendments seeks to deal with “or prohibiting it from entering any public place specified”. the fact that some of the proposed replacement provisions give us cause for concern as they are widely drafted and That would create the legal certainty that we think is could result in legal uncertainty. One of the main thrusts missing from the order-making power as it stands. As I of all the Committee’s work on this issue over the past have mentioned, we are concerned about the general 18 months or so has been the importance of creating power being given in this Bill to the senior police officer. legal certainty for protestors, protestees and the police The other particular point that I wish to make concerns in order to create that “no surprises” environment so the distinction drawn in the Bill between public procession that everybody knows where they stand. and public assembly. On public processions, the Bill 881 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 882 Governance Bill Governance Bill contains a non-exhaustive list of conditions that can be Parliament square at all. On average, there were between imposed, for example on the route of the procession or half a dozen and a dozen people standing around and which prohibit it from entering a public place. On the person with the loudhailer certainly did not need to public assemblies, however, the list of conditions that use it in order to exercise his right to communicate with can be imposed is exhaustive—they relate to the place, anyone in attendance who wished to hear his message. the maximum duration and the number of persons that I crossed the road to ask the principal demonstrator can attend. The human rights section of the explanatory why he was broadcasting at such a loud volume when so notes states that few people were present. He frankly explained that only “conditions may only pertain to the place of the demonstration, by doing so would he be able to ensure that his message its maximum duration and the maximum number of persons” penetrated into Parliament above the noise of the traffic and so on, but that relates to only half the story. It in the square. That clearly had nothing to do with the relates only to public assemblies—static demonstrations— right freely to express his views or to communicate them not to public protests, where no limit on the conditions to a voluntary assembly of people who wished to hear that can be imposed is set out in the Bill. That is one of them. By contrast, it had everything to do with forcing our main concerns and my amendment 26 aims to his views on people who simply wished to go about their address it. daily business undisturbed. We agree with the Government’s view that it is desirable As has been pointed out already in the debate—and in terms of legal certainty and clarity for the same or as I can vouch from experience—the ranting messages similar provisions to apply throughout the country in broadcast at such volume are loud enough to be a relation to protest and that as few distinctions as possible continual source of disturbance to people trying to should be made, but in view of the particular significance work in their offices in No. 1 Parliament street, in of Parliament as a venue for protest and the historic particular, but also in various other offices and meeting problems that have arisen in policing protest in the area, rooms on the parliamentary estate. We must not forget we think it is far more appropriate for a much more those people who live and work in the vicinity of precise list of conditions to be set out on processions Parliament square and who wish to use the facility of around Parliament. That is why my amendment aims to Parliament square for their own enjoyment—they should provide for such an exhaustive list as part of the Bill. not be disturbed unduly. An alternative approach, which I hope the Minister will examine, is to provide legal certainty through relevant For the most part, it is not possible to distinguish guidance, giving a comprehensive list of the sorts of what the shouting is about. The political message is not conditions that could be imposed on processions under reaching its target—all it is doing is causing massive this proposed new section. annoyance and significant distress to people who are trying to work. As was said by my hon. Friend the Dr. Julian Lewis: I thank the Government for making Member for Epping Forest (Mrs. Laing), who speaks it possible by their arrangement of the business tonight from the Front Bench, I did a survey of people’s experiences for us at least to discuss amendment 3. Had we had an of this persistent noise and 52 of them joined together opportunity to discuss it in Committee, I am sure that it and submitted a complaint to the council. I attached would have been accepted, because I understood at the those complaints to my submission to the consultation time that the Secretary of State for Justice proposed to exercise that was held. give the House a free vote. I have no doubt that if there had been a free vote, the amendment would have been I should like to refer to the experiences of a number overwhelmingly carried. of hon. Members from all parties, including the Liberal Democrat party. The hon. Member for Lewes (Norman It is not a restriction of my freedom of speech in this Baker)—I have to confess, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I place if, once I have had my say, expressed my opinion did not warn him because I did not know that I would and communicated my views to other hon. Members, I be referring to him in the Chamber today, but he gave proceeded to start ranting, shouting and continuing to me permission at the time to quote him in the submission demand to be heard even though I had had ample that I publicly gave to the consultation exercise, so I am opportunity to convey my message—if I continued to sure that he will not object to my quoting him now—wrote insist on shouting my message in support of my views to me: time and again, irrespective of the rights of others, defying any reasonable request to desist—I were then “We’re at one. You’re free to quote me objecting to the use of amplified material, provided I am also quoted as not wanting to eventually forcibly removed from the Chamber. That restrict the right to protest outside parliament. (Indeed I think would not mean that I had not had my freedom of that the present exclusion zone should be lifted.)” speech, but that I had abused my right of freedom of speech and trampled on the rights of others. That is an example of someone who was rightly distinguishing between whether the protest should be 8pm allowed to take place and whether the people taking That is what has been happening with the protest part in the protest should be allowed continually to use noise in Parliament square. Hon. Members and, above amplified noise for hours on end simply to batter the all, their staff are sick to death of it. The previous eardrums of other people who had nothing to do with Speaker, on a number of occasions, expressed his concern the protest in the square. about the nuisance of constant amplified noise. I first An hon. Member from the Labour Benches, who is became aware of the problem when I had my office in well-respected on constitutional matters, said: No. 1 Parliament street a few years ago. It became “There was, and always should be, the right to lobby your MP. impossible to concentrate on work because of persistent As a student, I would leave my placards etc on Westminster ranting through a highly amplified loudspeaker. When I Bridge and join an orderly queue to see my MP. This whole investigated what was happening, I was astonished to episode shows the weakness of Parliament unable to control its find that there was no rally or assembly of protestors in surroundings let alone hold government to account.” 883 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 884 Governance Bill Governance Bill I have given examples from one Liberal Democrat All that could happen is that they would eventually end Member and one Labour Member, and a Conservative up in a courtroom and there would eventually be some colleague of mine—a shadow Minister—said: sort of conviction either for causing a nuisance or for “I complained to the Serjeant and was told that there was breaking a byelaw, and then someone with a political nothing he could do. My office in 1 Parliament Street does not axe to grind would pay the fine for them. At the end of overlook Parliament Square and yet we are still tormented by the the day, however, there would be absolutely nothing volume of the loudspeakers.” that anyone could do to stop them making the noise in The parliamentary assistant to a right hon. Labour the run-up to the court case or continuing to make it Member said that after the court case. This is not about freedom of speech; it is about intolerance. Those people are intolerant “it drives me round the bend especially when I am trying to concentrate. We have to put up with enough noise from the bullies who have not managed to have their own way constant flow of traffic without having to put up with them and are therefore determined to shout, scream, rant, shouting through the loudhailer.” hector and harass other people. Another hon. Labour Member said: There is only one way in which to deal with this “I fully support your contention that the protestors in Parliament matter: by applying a degree of common sense. I speak Square do in fact disturb those working within the Palace of from experience because I am probably the only Westminster. My own office overlooks Speaker’s Court and the Conservative Member of the House actually to have noise can clearly be heard—even with the windows closed. Which been arrested for participating in a demonstration. As means of course in hot weather it is impossible to open the I have explained to the House on previous occasions, windows without further amplifying the disturbance. I pity the that was back in the 1980s when there was a demonstration poor security staff who have to work directly opposite and suffer against the Falklands war, and I was involved in a the barrage of abuse for long periods of time.” counter-demonstration. The police decided to remove I have only given half a dozen or so examples and us from the scene because we were the smaller there were 52 of them, which were submitted to the demonstration of the two, but we worked with the consultation. I believe that the consultation response police thereafter and were able to have our protest showed that there was real concern about the noise, because we regulated the amount of noise that we quite apart from the question of what people thought made. At that time, before any of these other laws, about the demonstration’s being allowed to remain on a restrictions and rights came in, we were told that if we virtually permanent basis in the square. So, I went back raised the noise level excessively, our equipment would to the permission that had been sought by the main be confiscated at least until the demonstration was over. protestor in Parliament square from Westminster council. Freedom of speech requires tolerance on all sides. I found the minutes of the meeting, which were helpfully The people who are ranting, raving and shouting—often on the internet. The meeting was held by licensing in extremely crude, rude and insulting terms—in a sub-committee No. 5 on 30 June 2006. The solicitor for public place cannot be dealt with by any means that the main protestor was a certain Mr. Grosz and the does not require the removal of the equipment if, on protestor, as we all know, is Mr. Haw. The minutes state: receipt of a complaint about the noise, they refuse to “Mr Grosz stated that the area in question was already noisy tone it down and keep it to reasonable levels. This issue with traffic, bells and commentary from tour buses. Mr Haw’s site is being dressed up as being about freedom of speech, was a long way from the Chambers of Parliament. There was, but it is actually about the bullying and intimidation of Mr Grosz said, no evidence of noise from Mr Haw’s loudspeaker reaching those working inside the Palace of Westminster, and that people going about their lawful business. I am very Mr Haw had no intention that loudspeaker noise penetrate its sorry that the Government, in the form of the Home buildings.” Secretary, will not allow Labour Members to vote according to their consciences, because I know that large numbers— It quoted Mr. Haw as saying that probably a majority—of those Members would like the “he wanted to work positively with officers from the City Council amendments to go through. However, now that the to avoid creating nuisance.” Government Chief Whip has entered the Chamber, I The sub-committee, it its naivety, accepted Mr. Haw’s shall simply repeat what I said at the beginning of my statement that he had no wish to cause a nuisance or a remarks. I am grateful to the Government for having at problem to people working in Parliament. That is, of least provided an opportunity for this issue to be aired course, exactly the opposite of what Mr. Haw told me and discussed. when I went to ask him why he was broadcasting at such volume when only a tiny handful of people were Mr. Hanson: We have had, as usual, a very lively—and present. in part noisy—debate about these issues. I shall explain The problem of noise harassment is real and serious. to the House why I hope that the amendments will not There is not an absolute unfettered right to shout one’s be pressed to a Division. opinions in the face of everybody else for hours on end, The hon. Members for Epping Forest (Mrs. Laing) long after any reasonable person would conclude that and for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis) have made their the first person had had their say. This is not freedom of case about the noise, which is, on occasion, disturbing speech—it is bullying. It is harassment. Indeed, in any to individual Members and members of staff. When I other environment it would not be tolerated for a moment. was the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the former The Liberal Democrat spokesman, the hon. Member Prime Minister between 2001 and 2005, I was frequently for Cambridge (David Howarth), said, “Well, it’s all in an office facing Parliament square and on the receiving right. It’s remediable—you can take them to court.” end of amplified noise about the performance of the The problem is that it is not remediable. Under the Prime Minister and the Government throughout some existing law, nobody can be dealt with who is determined very difficult debates on Iraq, student fees and a range to go on making incessant noise at unreasonable volume. of other issues. The purpose of the amendments is to 885 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 886 Governance Bill Governance Bill remove such amplified noise from Parliament square, or intimidating, the behaviour can be, and has been, but I do not believe that they would represent a practical captured by section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. If or workable solution. noise from loudspeakers amounts to harassment, the My first point to both the hon. Lady and the hon. civil and criminal remedies that other organisations Gentleman, and in support of the hon. Member for have successfully brought are available to Parliament. If Cambridge (David Howarth), has to be about what noise from loudspeakers amounts to makes Parliament so different from any other place of “serious disruption to the life of the community”, operation in London and from somewhere in any other the police have powers under section 14 of the 1986 Act city in the UK. We have a responsibility to undertake to impose conditions on assemblies. Clearly, the police work and our other activities in a positive way, but could show that there was serious disruption if those unless that protest noise is so disruptive that it prevents who were being disrupted complained to the police. As us from exercising our functions on the Floor of the has been made clear by the courts, by us in our policing House, the suggested action would be excessive and we White Paper, and by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of could not support it. constabulary in its report “Adapting to Protest”, if noise from loudspeakers amounts to nuisance or 8.15 pm inconvenience, that alone does not provide sufficient grounds to restrict peaceful protest. Dr. Lewis: The noise certainly prevents us from exercising The hon. Member for New Forest, East might be our functions in the W Rooms and the Committee aware of the Greater London authority’s Trafalgar Rooms, and it certainly disturbs people who are trying Square and Parliament Square Garden Byelaws 2002, to conduct constituency work from their offices but are which make it an offence for a person to use amplification not able to concentrate because of intrusive and excessive equipment on Parliament square garden without the noise. If we had more time, I could quote the Minister prior permission of the Mayor of London, whom I chapter and verse about that. recall is one Mr. Boris Johnson of this parish, who is supported by the Conservative party. Westminster city Mr. Hanson: As has been outlined, there are measures council, which I recall is run by a party other than the in place regarding noise pollution and public order Labour party, has also made specific byelaws under legislation, to which the hon. Member for Cambridge section 235 of the Local Government Act 1972 regarding referred, and there are also provisions in place to deal causing or permitting any loud or continuous noise to with harassment, in addition to, when relevant, byelaws be made by use of an amplifier or similar instrument regarding this place. after being warned to desist by a constable. The practical effect of amendment 3 would, as the hon. Member for Dr. Lewis: I promise that I shall not keep intervening, Cambridge indicated, be to silence not only protestors, but will the Minister explain how any of those measures but anyone else in an area around Parliament. It would, would stop the noise rather than simply leading to a fine as my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon indicated, that would be paid by someone else while the noise prevent the use of amplifying equipment in every way, continued unabated? shape or form. It would include stewards who use amplifying equipment to control crowds and people Mr. Hanson: I will go through the measures that are who use such equipment to speak at demonstrations. It available to ensure that such actions can be dealt with if would cover people such as the Gurkhas and groups they are excessive. However, let me first return to the such as the Countryside Alliance. Indeed, I sometimes original point of contention. What makes Parliament oppose the content of parts of that body’s demonstrations, different from any other establishment that can be and but I respect its right to demonstrate. is subject to protest? I can be sympathetic about the situation, because I know that the noise can be difficult Dr. Lewis: The amendment is not about banning to deal with, but let me recognise, as we did in the noise but about giving a power to remove amplifying policing White Paper, and as the hon. Member for equipment if, on receipt of complaints, it is judged that Cambridge and my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon people are being unduly harassed. The Minister is talking (Mr. Dismore) have done, that the creation of noise and about demonstrations that would have been arranged disruption is, and should be, part of our democratic and regulated, and so would be perfectly allowable. The process and a healthy element of a democratic society. amendment would not impinge on them in any way whatsoever. Mr. Dismore: Although we all agree about the problem of loudspeaker noise, one of my concerns is that when we have tried to legislate regarding protest in Parliament Mr. Hanson: In February 2008, Barbara Tucker—she square in the past, we have made mistakes and all sorts is well known to us because of the protests that she of things have ended up going wrong. Would there be holds outside the House with Brian Haw—used a any fallout for other forms of broadcast noise in Parliament loudspeaker to express threatening language to the hon. square if these amendments were made? Would anything Member for Rutland and Melton (Alan Duncan) as he else be unintentionally banned as a consequence? left the Commons. In August of that year, she was found guilty of committing an offence under section 5 Mr. Hanson: My hon. Friend touches on an important of the Public Order Act 1986, which makes it an offence point that I shall come to in a moment. to use Let me tell the hon. Members for Epping Forest and “threatening, abusive or insulting words”. for New Forest, East, who spoke in support of the She was fined £100 and court costs. What is the difference amendments, that if noise from loudspeakers is threatening between that and what the hon. Gentleman proposes? 887 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 888 Governance Bill Governance Bill Dr. Lewis: The Minister has just illustrated the point spent a lot of time filibustering to make sure that we that I have been arguing throughout the debate. She was stayed on the question of a European referendum and fined, but she is still out there and making noise. We are did not reach any other matters. not interested in whether she is fined or not, but in I return now to the main issues. The amendment is whether we can go about our lawful occasions and carry defective, and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary out our normal duties without harassment and disturbance wishes it to be defeated. It would not achieve the aim set by noise. That conviction has not remedied the problem out by the hon. Member for Epping Forest. I support one whit, as the Minister knows perfectly well. the contention made by the hon. Member for Cambridge and by my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon, which Mr. Hanson: I am afraid that I disagree. People have a was that protests are a valuable part of a democratic right to protest, but laws on harassment and environmental society. We might not like or appreciate the noise, but health, as well as certain byelaws, contain powers to people’s right to make it is one that I think we must stop noise. The legislation also allows complaints to be defend. I therefore urge the hon. Member for Epping made and forwarded accordingly. Forest to withdraw her amendment and to ensure that it Although the hon. Member for Epping Forest might is not pressed to a Division. not realise this, I must advise the House that accepting The general purpose of the Bill is clear. In conjunction the amendment would mean, for example, that Westminster with the House authorities, we have tried to ensure that abbey would not be able to rings its bells. In addition, we allow proper protests in Parliament square, but we ceremonies at which bands use amplifying equipment, have also tried to make sure that hon. Members have such as the wreath-laying ceremony at the Cenotaph, free access to the House. The police are required to would not be allowed. ensure that people can have access to Parliament, and they are able to act accordingly. Mrs. Laing indicated dissent. What is distinct about Parliament that might justify provisions that are different from those that apply elsewhere? Mr. Hanson: The hon. Lady might disagree with the That is the central question running through our review tenor of my remarks, but the implication of her amendment of the legislative framework. We believe that while we would be as I set out. If Members want to support her must allow Parliament to exercise its democratic functions, amendment, they can do so, but that would be its we must also ensure that people are allowed to protest, impact. because the right to protest is a valuable part of our democratic society. David Howarth: Another power is available to the Attorney-General and any local authority in that an I am conscious of the time, and I want to ensure that injunction can be obtained against a person who persistently we reach a conclusion on this matter. I hope that the breaches the criminal law. There are a great many hon. Member for Epping Forest will withdraw the methods available, but it seems that the hon. Member amendment. Her amendments are defective and should for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis) has simply not worked be opposed. If they are pressed to a Division, I would out what they are. urge the House to reject them.

Mr. Hanson: The amendment is defective, and would Mrs. Laing: I think that we have had sufficient debate have consequences that the hon. Members for Epping on this matter tonight. In view of the time, I will not Forest and for New Forest, East have not recognised. It insist on amendment 2, but I want to press amendment 3 would cause great difficulty not just for those who to a Division. I beg to ask leave to withdraw amendment 2. protest in Parliament square, but for those who need to Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. use amplifying equipment for legitimate reasons.

Mrs. Laing: Nobody wants to stop Westminster abbey Schedule 9 ringing its bells or any of the other things that the Minister has just set out. However, does he agree that AMENDMENT TO PART 2 OF THE PUBLIC ORDER giving this Bill proper time for scrutiny would have led ACT 1986 ETC to the arguments that he is making today being put Amendment proposed: 10, in page 95, line 21, leave forward in Committee? If that had happened, and if it out from ‘procession’ to end of line 18 on page 55 and is true that my amendment would stop the Westminster insert abbey bells ringing, we could have agreed to table another amendment to make sure that that did not ‘or a public assembly that is having the effect of preventing reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament. happen. However, we would then have defended freedom of speech for the little people out there who want to (2) The Speaker of the House of Commons shall decide come and protest in Parliament square but who cannot whether reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament has been prevented. because of the bully who is already there. (3) If the Speaker has decided under subsection (2) that reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament has been Mr. Hanson: I remind the hon. Lady that I waited for prevented, the senior police officer may, for the purpose of six and a half hours to speak to the amendments that restoring reasonable access to the Houses of Parliament, give were tabled on the relevant day of the Committee stage. directions to any person who is organising or taking part in the I was not able to speak to them in the end because public procession or public assembly. Conservative Members were filibustering on matters to (4) The directions referred to in subsection (3) must be do with a European referendum. I therefore do not necessary for the purpose of restoring access to the Houses of want take lessons from her about debate, discussion and Parliament and proportionate to that purpose.’.—(David protests, given that the hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) Howarth.) 889 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 890 Governance Bill Governance Bill Question put, That the amendment be made. Chope, Mr. Christopher Goodman, Helen The House proceeded to a Division. Clapham, Mr. Michael Goodman, Mr. Paul Clappison, Mr. James Goodwill, Mr. Robert Clark, Ms Katy Gray, Mr. James Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): I ask the Clark, Paul Greening, Justine Sergeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Clarke,rhMr.Tom Grieve, Mr. Dominic Lobby. Clelland, Mr. David Griffith, Nia The House having divided: Ayes 45, Noes 388. Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey Griffiths, Nigel Clwyd, rh Ann Grogan, Mr. John Division No. 93] [8.29 pm Coaker, Mr. Vernon Gummer, rh Mr. John Coffey, Ann Hague, rh Mr. William AYES Cohen, Harry Hain, rh Mr. Peter Barrett, John Mason, John Connarty, Michael Hall, Mr. Mike Beith, rh Sir Alan Moore, Mr. Michael Cooper, Rosie Hall, Patrick Brooke, Annette Mulholland, Greg Cooper, rh Yvette Hamilton, Mr. David Browne, Mr. Jeremy Öpik, Lembit Cormack, Sir Patrick Hammond, Stephen Bruce, rh Malcolm Price, Adam Cousins, Jim Hands, Mr. Greg Burt, Lorely Rennie, Willie Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Hanson, rh Mr. David Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Robertson, Angus Crausby, Mr. David Harper, Mr. Mark Cook, Frank Russell, Bob Cruddas, Jon Harris, Mr. Tom Corbyn, Jeremy Sanders, Mr. Adrian Cryer, Mrs. Ann Hayes, Mr. John Farron, Tim Simpson, Alan Cummings, John Healey, rh John Foster, Mr. Don Smith, Sir Robert Cunningham, Mr. Jim Henderson, Mr. Doug Gidley, Sandra Taylor, Dr. Richard Cunningham, Tony Hendry, Charles Harris, Dr. Evan Teather, Sarah Curry, rh Mr. David Heppell, Mr. John Harvey, Nick Webb, Steve David, Mr. Wayne Hesford, Stephen Heath, Mr. David Weir, Mr. Mike Davidson, Mr. Ian Hillier, Meg Hemming, John Williams, Mark Davies, Mr. Dai Hodge, rh Margaret Holmes, Paul Williams, Mr. Roger Davies, David T. C. Hollobone, Mr. Philip Hosie, Stewart Williams, Stephen (Monmouth) Holloway, Mr. Adam Howarth, David Willis, Mr. Phil Davies, Philip Hood, Mr. Jim Hughes, Simon Willott, Jenny Davies, Mr. Quentin Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Davis, rh David Hope, Phil Huhne, Chris Wishart, Pete Dean, Mrs. Janet Hopkins, Kelvin Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Tellers for the Ayes: Denham, rh Mr. John Howarth, Mr. Gerald Lamb, Norman Richard Younger-Ross and Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Howell, John MacNeil, Mr. Angus Mr. Alan Reid Dismore, Mr. Andrew Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Humble, Mrs. Joan NOES Dodds, Mr. Nigel Hutton, rh Mr. John Abbott, Ms Diane Blackman, Liz Doran, Mr. Frank Iddon, Dr. Brian Afriyie, Adam Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen Jack, rh Mr. Michael Ainger, Nick Blears, rh Hazel Drew, Mr. David Jackson, Glenda Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Blunkett, rh Mr. David Duddridge, James Jackson, Mr. Stewart Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Blunt, Mr. Crispin Duncan, Alan James, Mrs. Siân C. Allen, Mr. Graham Bone, Mr. Peter Dunne, Mr. Philip Jenkins, Mr. Brian Anderson, Mr. David Borrow, Mr. David S. Durkan, Mark Johnson, Ms Diana R. Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Boswell, Mr. Tim Eagle, Angela Jones, Mr. David Armstrong, rh Hilary Bottomley, Peter Eagle, Maria Jones, Helen Atkins, Charlotte Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Ellman, Mrs. Louise Jones, Mr. Martyn Atkinson, Mr. Peter Brady, Mr. Graham Engel, Natascha Joyce, Mr. Eric Austin, Mr. Ian Brennan, Kevin Ennis, Jeff Kawczynski, Daniel Austin, John Brokenshire, James Etherington, Bill Keeley, Barbara Bacon, Mr. Richard Brown, Lyn Evennett, Mr. David Keen, Alan Bailey, Mr. Adrian Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Fabricant, Michael Kelly, rh Ruth Bain, Mr. William Brown, Mr. Russell Fallon, Mr. Michael Kemp, Mr. Fraser Baird, Vera Browning, Angela Farrelly, Paul Key, Robert Baldry, Tony Bryant, Chris Field, rh Mr. Frank Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Banks, Gordon Buck, Ms Karen Fitzpatrick, Jim Kidney, Mr. David Barlow, Ms Celia Burgon, Colin Flello, Mr. Robert Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Baron, Mr. John Burnham, rh Andy Flynn, Paul Kirkbride, Miss Julie Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Burrowes, Mr. David Foster, Mr. Michael Knight, rh Mr. Greg Battle, rh John Burt, Alistair (Worcester) Kumar, Dr. Ashok Bayley, Hugh Butler, Ms Dawn Foster, Michael Jabez Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Beckett, rh Margaret Byrne, rh Mr. Liam (Hastings and Rye) Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Begg, Miss Anne Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Francis, Dr. Hywel Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Bellingham, Mr. Henry Cairns, David Francois, Mr. Mark Lammy, rh Mr. David Benn, rh Hilary Campbell, Mr. Alan Gardiner, Barry Lancaster, Mr. Mark Benton, Mr. Joe Campbell, Mr. Gregory Garnier, Mr. Edward Laxton, Mr. Bob Benyon, Mr. Richard Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Gerrard, Mr. Neil Lazarowicz, Mark Beresford, Sir Paul Carswell, Mr. Douglas Gibb, Mr. Nick Leigh, Mr. Edward Berry, Roger Caton, Mr. Martin Gilroy, Linda Lepper, David Binley, Mr. Brian Cawsey, Mr. Ian Godsiff, Mr. Roger Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver 891 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 892 Governance Bill Governance Bill Levitt, Tom Prisk, Mr. Mark Trickett, Jon Willetts, Mr. David Lewis, Mr. Ivan Pritchard, Mark Turner, Mr. Andrew Williams, rh Mr. Alan Lewis, Dr. Julian Prosser, Gwyn Turner, Dr. Desmond Williams, Mrs. Betty Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Purchase, Mr. Ken Turner, Mr. Neil Wills, rh Mr. Michael Lidington, Mr. David Rammell, Bill Twigg, Derek Wilson, Phil Linton, Martin Randall, Mr. John Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Wilson, Mr. Rob Love, Mr. Andrew Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Ussher, Kitty Winnick, Mr. David Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Redwood, rh Mr. John Vaizey, Mr. Edward Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Mactaggart, Fiona Reed, Mr. Andy Vara, Mr. Shailesh Wood, Mike Main, Anne Reed, Mr. Jamie Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Woolas, Mr. Phil Malik, Mr. Shahid Reid, rh John Walley, Joan Wright, David Malins, Mr. Humfrey Riordan, Mrs. Linda Waltho, Lynda Wright, Mr. Iain Mallaber, Judy Robathan, Mr. Andrew Ward, Claire Wright, Jeremy Mann, John Robertson, Hugh Waterson, Mr. Nigel Wright, Dr. Tony Marris, Rob Robertson, John Watkinson, Angela Wyatt, Derek Marsden, Mr. Gordon Robertson, Mr. Laurence Watson, Mr. Tom Yeo, Mr. Tim Martlew, Mr. Eric Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Watts, Mr. Dave Young, rh Sir George McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Rooney, Mr. Terry Whitehead, Dr. Alan McCabe, Steve Rosindell, Andrew Whittingdale, Mr. John Tellers for the Noes: McCarthy, Kerry Roy, Mr. Frank Wicks, rh Malcolm Mary Creagh and McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Roy, Lindsay Wiggin, Bill Mrs. Sharon Hodgson McCrea, Dr. William Ruane, Chris McDonagh, Siobhain Ruddock, Joan Question accordingly negatived. McDonnell, John Russell, Christine McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Salter, Martin Amendment proposed: 3, page 97, leave out lines 36 McGrady, Mr. Eddie Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad to 40 and insert— McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Scott, Mr. Lee ‘Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (c. 15) McIntosh, Miss Anne Seabeck, Alison 2 (9) In section 137, the following amendments are made in McIsaac, Shona Selous, Andrew relation to the use of amplified noise equipment and other McKechin, Ann Sharma, Mr. Virendra devices designed to produce noise in the area around Parliament. McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Shaw, Jonathan McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Sheerman, Mr. Barry (10) For “loudspeaker” wherever it occurs substitute “amplified noise equipment or other device designed to produce Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Sheridan, Jim noise”. Merron, Gillian Simmonds, Mark Michael, rh Alun Simon, Mr. Siôn (11) In subsection (1) leave out “in a street in the designated Miliband, rh David Simpson, David area” and insert “in the area around Parliament, as specified by Miller, Andrew Simpson, Mr. Keith order under section 14ZB of the Public Order Act 1986”. Miller, Mrs. Maria Skinner, Mr. Dennis (12) In subsection (2), leave out paragraph (i). Milton, Anne Smith, rh Mr. Andrew (13) After subsection (3) insert— Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Smith, Ms Angela C. “(3A) A police officer shall, on receipt of a complaint of Mitchell, Mr. Austin (Sheffield, Hillsborough) excessive noise caused by amplified noise equipment or other Moffatt, Laura Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) device designed to produce noise, have the power— Mole, Chris Smith, rh Jacqui (a) to require the operator to desist, and Morden, Jessica Snelgrove, Anne Morgan, Julie Soames, Mr. Nicholas (b) in the event of non-compliance, to seize the amplified noise equipment or other device designed to produce Moss, Mr. Malcolm Soulsby, Sir Peter noise and to retain it as long as it is deemed Mullin, Mr. Chris Southworth, Helen necessary. Munn, Meg Spellar, rh Mr. John Murphy, Mr. Denis Spelman, Mrs. Caroline (3B) The powers available under subsection (3A) above may be Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Spicer, Sir Michael exercised by the most senior police officer in the immediate Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Spink, Bob vicinity of the source of the noise.”. Murrison, Dr. Andrew Starkey, Dr. Phyllis (14) In subsection (6) leave out “or of” and insert “save where Naysmith, Dr. Doug Stewart, Ian prohibited under”.’. Neill, Robert Stoate, Dr. Howard Question put, That the amendment be made. Newmark, Mr. Brooks Strang, rh Dr. Gavin The House proceeded to a Division. Norris, Dan Straw, rh Mr. Jack O’Brien, rh Mr. Mike Streeter, Mr. Gary O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Stringer, Graham Mr. Deputy Speaker: I ask the Serjeant at Arms to Olner, Mr. Bill Stuart, Ms Gisela investigate the delay in the No Lobby. Paice, Mr. James Stuart, Mr. Graham The House having divided: Ayes 135, Noes 312. Paisley, rh Rev. Ian Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Palmer, Dr. Nick Swayne, Mr. Desmond Division No. 94] [8.44 pm Paterson, Mr. Owen Swire, Mr. Hugo Pearson, Ian Syms, Mr. Robert AYES Penning, Mike Tami, Mark Afriyie, Adam Benyon, Mr. Richard Pickles, Mr. Eric Tapsell, Sir Peter Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Beresford, Sir Paul Plaskitt, Mr. James Thomas, Mr. Gareth Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Binley, Mr. Brian Pope, Mr. Greg Thornberry, Emily Atkinson, Mr. Peter Blunt, Mr. Crispin Prentice, Bridget Timpson, Mr. Edward Bacon, Mr. Richard Bone, Mr. Peter Prentice, Mr. Gordon Tipping, Paddy Baldry, Tony Boswell, Mr. Tim Prescott, rh Mr. John Todd, Mr. Mark Baron, Mr. John Bottomley, Peter Primarolo, rh Dawn Touhig, rh Mr. Don Bellingham, Mr. Henry Brady, Mr. Graham 893 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 894 Governance Bill Governance Bill Brokenshire, James Malins, Mr. Humfrey Barrett, John Etherington, Bill Browning, Angela McCrea, Dr. William Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Farrelly, Paul Burrowes, Mr. David McIntosh, Miss Anne Battle, rh John Farron, Tim Burt, Alistair McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Bayley, Hugh Field, rh Mr. Frank Campbell, Mr. Gregory Miller, Mrs. Maria Beckett, rh Margaret Fitzpatrick, Jim Carswell, Mr. Douglas Milton, Anne Begg, Miss Anne Flello, Mr. Robert Chope, Mr. Christopher Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Beith, rh Sir Alan Flynn, Paul Clappison, Mr. James Moss, Mr. Malcolm Benn, rh Hilary Foster, Mr. Don Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey Murrison, Dr. Andrew Benton, Mr. Joe Foster, Mr. Michael Cormack, Sir Patrick Neill, Robert Berry, Roger (Worcester) Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Newmark, Mr. Brooks Blackman, Liz Foster, Michael Jabez Curry, rh Mr. David O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta (Hastings and Rye) Davies, David T. C. Paice, Mr. James Blears, rh Hazel Francis, Dr. Hywel (Monmouth) Paisley, rh Rev. Ian Borrow, Mr. David S. Gapes, Mike Davies, Philip Paterson, Mr. Owen Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Gardiner, Barry Davis, rh David Penning, Mike Brennan, Kevin Gerrard, Mr. Neil Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Pickles, Mr. Eric Brooke, Annette Gidley, Sandra Dodds, Mr. Nigel Prisk, Mr. Mark Brown, Lyn Gilroy, Linda Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen Pritchard, Mark Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Godsiff, Mr. Roger Duncan, Alan Randall, Mr. John Brown, Mr. Russell Goggins, rh Paul Dunne, Mr. Philip Redwood, rh Mr. John Browne, Mr. Jeremy Goodman, Helen Evans, Mr. Nigel Robathan, Mr. Andrew Bruce, rh Malcolm Griffith, Nia Evennett, Mr. David Robertson, Hugh Bryant, Chris Griffiths, Nigel Fabricant, Michael Robertson, Mr. Laurence Buck, Ms Karen Grogan, Mr. John Fallon, Mr. Michael Rosindell, Andrew Burgon, Colin Hain, rh Mr. Peter Fox, Dr. Liam Scott, Mr. Lee Burnham, rh Andy Hall, Mr. Mike Francois, Mr. Mark Selous, Andrew Butler, Ms Dawn Hall, Patrick Garnier, Mr. Edward Simmonds, Mark Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Hamilton, Mr. David Gibb, Mr. Nick Simpson, David Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Hanson, rh Mr. David Goodman, Mr. Paul Simpson, Mr. Keith Cairns, David Harris, Dr. Evan Goodwill, Mr. Robert Soames, Mr. Nicholas Campbell, Mr. Alan Harvey, Nick Gray, Mr. James Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Healey, rh John Greening, Justine Spicer, Sir Michael Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Heath, Mr. David Grieve, Mr. Dominic Spink, Bob Caton, Mr. Martin Hemming, John Gummer, rh Mr. John Spring, Mr. Richard Cawsey, Mr. Ian Heppell, Mr. John Hague, rh Mr. William Stanley, rh Sir John Clapham, Mr. Michael Hesford, Stephen Hammond, Stephen Steen, Mr. Anthony Clark, Ms Katy Hillier, Meg Hands, Mr. Greg Streeter, Mr. Gary Clark, Paul Hodge, rh Margaret Harper, Mr. Mark Stuart, Mr. Graham Clarke,rhMr.Tom Hoey, Kate Hayes, Mr. John Swayne, Mr. Desmond Clelland, Mr. David Holmes, Paul Hendry, Charles Swire, Mr. Hugo Clwyd, rh Ann Hood, Mr. Jim Hollobone, Mr. Philip Syms, Mr. Robert Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Holloway, Mr. Adam Tapsell, Sir Peter Coffey, Ann Hope, Phil Howarth, Mr. Gerald Timpson, Mr. Edward Cohen, Harry Hopkins, Kelvin Howell, John Turner, Mr. Andrew Connarty, Michael Hosie, Stewart Jack, rh Mr. Michael Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Cook, Frank Howarth, David Jackson, Mr. Stewart Vaizey, Mr. Edward Cooper, Rosie Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Jones, Mr. David Vara, Mr. Shailesh Cooper, rh Yvette Huhne, Chris Kawczynski, Daniel Viggers, Sir Peter Corbyn, Jeremy Humble, Mrs. Joan Key, Robert Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Cousins, Jim Hunter, Mark Kirkbride, Miss Julie Waterson, Mr. Nigel Crausby, Mr. David Hutton, rh Mr. John Knight, rh Mr. Greg Watkinson, Angela Cruddas, Jon Iddon, Dr. Brian Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Whittingdale, Mr. John Cryer, Mrs. Ann Illsley, Mr. Eric Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Wiggin, Bill Cummings, John Jackson, Glenda Lancaster, Mr. Mark Willetts, Mr. David Cunningham, Mr. Jim James, Mrs. Siân C. Cunningham, Tony Jenkins, Mr. Brian Leigh, Mr. Edward Wilshire, Mr. David Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver David, Mr. Wayne Johnson, rh Alan Wilson, Mr. Rob Lewis, Dr. Julian Davidson, Mr. Ian Johnson, Ms Diana R. Young, rh Sir George Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Davies, Mr. Dai Jones, Helen Lidington, Mr. David Tellers for the Ayes: Davies, Mr. Quentin Jones, Lynne Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew James Duddridge and Dean, Mrs. Janet Jones, Mr. Martyn Main, Anne Jeremy Wright Denham, rh Mr. John Joyce, Mr. Eric Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Keeley, Barbara NOES Dismore, Mr. Andrew Keen, Alan Doran, Mr. Frank Kelly, rh Ruth Abbott, Ms Diane Austin, Mr. Ian Drew, Mr. David Kemp, Mr. Fraser Ainger, Nick Austin, John Durkan, Mark Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Bailey, Mr. Adrian Eagle, Angela Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Allen, Mr. Graham Bain, Mr. William Eagle, Maria Kidney, Mr. David Anderson, Mr. David Baird, Vera Ellman, Mrs. Louise Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Armstrong, rh Hilary Banks, Gordon Engel, Natascha Kumar, Dr. Ashok Atkins, Charlotte Barlow, Ms Celia Ennis, Jeff Ladyman, Dr. Stephen 895 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 896 Governance Bill Governance Bill Lamb, Norman Reid, Mr. Alan Willott, Jenny Wright, David Lammy, rh Mr. David Rennie, Willie Wills, rh Mr. Michael Wright, Mr. Iain Laxton, Mr. Bob Riordan, Mrs. Linda Wilson, Phil Wright, Dr. Tony Lazarowicz, Mark Robertson, Angus Winnick, Mr. David Wyatt, Derek Leech, Mr. John Robertson, John Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Younger-Ross, Richard Lepper, David Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Wishart, Pete Tellers for the Noes: Levitt, Tom Rooney, Mr. Terry Wood, Mike Mary Creagh and Lewis, Mr. Ivan Rowen, Paul Woolas, Mr. Phil Mrs. Sharon Hodgson Linton, Martin Roy, Mr. Frank Love, Mr. Andrew Roy, Lindsay Mackinlay, Andrew Ruane, Chris Question accordingly negatived. MacNeil, Mr. Angus Ruddock, Joan Mactaggart, Fiona Russell, Bob 9.2 pm Malik, Mr. Shahid Russell, Christine Mallaber, Judy Salter, Martin Debate interrupted (Programme Order, this day). Mann, John Sanders, Mr. Adrian The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Questions necessary Marris, Rob Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad for the disposal of business to be concluded at that time Marsden, Mr. Gordon Seabeck, Alison (Standing Order No. 83E). Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Sharma, Mr. Virendra Martlew, Mr. Eric Shaw, Jonathan Mason, John Sheerman, Mr. Barry New Clause 24 McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Sheridan, Jim McCabe, Steve Simon, Mr. Siôn McCarthy, Kerry Simpson, Alan REGIONAL COUNTING OFFICERS McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Skinner, Mr. Dennis ‘(1) This section has effect, in addition to section 128 (Chief McDonagh, Siobhain Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Counting Officers, and counting officers, for referendums) of the McDonnell, John Smith, Ms Angela C. Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (c. 41) McFadden, rh Mr. Pat (Sheffield, Hillsborough) (“the 2000 Act”), in relation to the referendum under section 29. McGrady, Mr. Eddie Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) (2) The Chief Counting Officer for the referendum must McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Smith, rh Jacqui appoint a Regional Counting Officer for each region in Great McIsaac, Shona Smith, Sir Robert Britain. McKechin, Ann Snelgrove, Anne McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Soulsby, Sir Peter (3) For the purposes of this section the regions are as Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Southworth, Helen follows— Merron, Gillian Spellar, rh Mr. John East Midlands; Michael, rh Alun Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Eastern; Miliband, rh David Stewart, Ian Miller, Andrew Stoate, Dr. Howard London; Mitchell, Mr. Austin Strang, rh Dr. Gavin North East; Moffatt, Laura Straw, rh Mr. Jack North West; Mole, Chris Stringer, Graham South East; Moore, Mr. Michael Stuart, Ms Gisela Morden, Jessica Stunell, Andrew South West; Morgan, Julie Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry West Midlands; Mulholland, Greg Tami, Mark Yorkshire and the Humber; Mullin, Mr. Chris Taylor, Dr. Richard Munn, Meg Teather, Sarah Scotland; Murphy, Mr. Denis Thomas, Mr. Gareth Wales. Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Thornberry, Emily The regions in England comprise the areas specified in the Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Tipping, Paddy Table in Schedule 1 to the European Parliamentary Elections Naysmith, Dr. Doug Todd, Mr. Mark Act 2002 (c. 24) (ignoring the reference to Gibraltar) as it has Norris, Dan Touhig, rh Mr. Don effect for the time being. O’Brien, rh Mr. Mike Trickett, Jon O’Hara, Mr. Edward Turner, Dr. Desmond (4) Each Regional Counting Officer must, as respects the votes Olner, Mr. Bill Turner, Mr. Neil cast in the region for which the officer is appointed, certify— Öpik, Lembit Twigg, Derek (a) the total number of ballot papers counted, and Osborne, Sandra Ussher, Kitty (b) the total number of votes cast in favour of each answer Palmer, Dr. Nick Walley, Joan to the question asked in the referendum. Pearson, Ian Waltho, Lynda Plaskitt, Mr. James Ward, Claire Where two or more forms of ballot paper are used in the Pope, Mr. Greg Watson, Mr. Tom referendum, a separate number must be certified under Prentice, Bridget Watts, Mr. Dave paragraph (a) in relation to each form of ballot paper used. Prentice, Mr. Gordon Webb, Steve (5) The Chief Counting Officer may require a Regional Prescott, rh Mr. John Weir, Mr. Mike Counting Officer to appoint counting officers for relevant areas Price, Adam Whitehead, Dr. Alan (within the meaning of section 128 of the 2000 Act) in the region Primarolo, rh Dawn Wicks, rh Malcolm for which the Regional Counting Officer is appointed. Prosser, Gwyn Williams, rh Mr. Alan (6) To the extent that counting officers are appointed by virtue Purchase, Mr. Ken Williams, Mrs. Betty of subsection (5), the duty of the Chief Counting Officer under Rammell, Bill Williams, Mark section 128(3) of the 2000 Act is discharged. Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Williams, Mr. Roger (7) A reference to a counting officer in sections 33 to 35 Reed, Mr. Andy Williams, Stephen (except the reference in section 34(5)) includes a reference to a Reed, Mr. Jamie Willis, Mr. Phil Regional Counting Officer.’. 897 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 898 Governance Bill Governance Bill New Clause 25 “(6) In making arrangements under this rule, the returning officer shall have regard to the duty imposed on him by rule 45(3A) below.” CONDUCT ETC OF REFERENDUM (3) In rule 45 (the count)— ‘(1) The Secretary of State may by order make whatever provision he or she considers expedient— (a) after paragraph (3) insert— (a) for and in connection with the referendum under “(3A) The returning officer shall take reasonable steps to begin section 29; counting the votes given on the ballot papers as soon as practicable within the period of four hours starting with the close (b) for and in connection with the combination of the poll of the poll.”; at the referendum with the poll at an election or at another referendum (or both). (b) after paragraph (7) insert— “(8) The Electoral Commission shall issue guidance to (2) An order under this section may, in particular, apply or returning officers on the duty imposed by paragraph (3A) incorporate, with or without modification, any enactment or above.” subordinate legislation (whenever passed or made) relating to referendums or elections. (4) After rule 53 insert— In this subsection “subordinate legislation” has the same “Counting of votes: statement by returning officer meaning as in the Interpretation Act 1978 (c. 30). 53ZA (1) In a contested election, if the counting of the votes (3) An order under this section— given on the ballot papers did not begin within the period specified in rule 45(3A) above, the returning officer shall before (a) may include provision creating criminal offences; the expiry of the period of 30 days starting with the day on which (b) may make supplementary, incidental, consequential, the poll closed— transitory, transitional or saving provision; (a) prepare and publish a statement giving the information (c) may make different provision for different purposes specified in paragraph (2) below, and (including different areas). (b) deliver it to the Electoral Commission. (4) The power to make an order under this section is (2) The statement must— exercisable by statutory instrument. (a) specify the time at which the counting of the votes (5) The Secretary of State must consult the Electoral given on the ballot papers began, Commission before making an order under this section. (b) describe the steps taken under rule 45(3A) above, and (6) An order under this section may not be made unless a draft (c) explain why the counting of the votes given on the of the statutory instrument containing the order has been laid ballot papers did not start within the period specified before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.’. in rule 45(3A) above. (3) Where a statement is delivered to the Electoral Commission under paragraph (1)(b) above, the Commission New Clause 26 shall specify in any election report they produce that a statement has been delivered to them under that paragraph in respect of the ELECTORAL COMMISSION ACCOUNTS IN RELATION TO constituency to which the statement relates. SPECIFIED MATTERS (4) In paragraph (3) above “election report” means a report ‘(1) Schedule 1 to the Political Parties, Elections and under section 5(1) or (2A) of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (c. 41) (the Electoral Commission) is Referendums Act 2000 in relation to the parliamentary election amended as follows. in question.”’.—(Mr. Wills.) (2) For sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 17 substitute— Brought up, and added to the Bill. “(2) The Commission— (a) shall prepare accounts for each financial year, and Clause 8

(b) if directed to do so by the Treasury, shall prepare SPECIAL ADVISERS CODE accounts in relation to any matter specified in the direction.” Amendment made: 35, page 5, line 22, at end insert— (3) In sub-paragraph (3) of paragraph 17, for the words from ‘(4A) Subject to subsection (4B), a special advisers code must the beginning to “sub-paragraph (2)” substitute “Accounts under provide that a special adviser may not— sub-paragraph (2) shall be prepared in accordance with (a) authorise the expenditure of public funds; directions given to the Commission by the Treasury. (b) exercise any power in relation to the management of Directions under this sub-paragraph may”. any part of the civil service of the State; (4) In sub-paragraph (1) of paragraph 18— (c) otherwise exercise any power conferred by or under this or any other Act or any power under Her (a) for “for any financial year” substitute “under Majesty’s prerogative. paragraph 17”; (4B) A special advisers code may permit a special adviser to (b) for the words from “after” to the end substitute “as exercise any power within subsection (4A)(b) in relation to may be practicable after the end of the financial year another special adviser. to which the accounts relate or, in the case of accounts prepared in pursuance of a direction under (4C) In subsection (4A)(c) “Act” includes— paragraph 17(2)(b), the giving of the direction.”’. (a) an Act of the Scottish Parliament; (b) an Act or Measure of the National Assembly for Wales; New Clause 37 (c) Northern Ireland legislation.’.—(Mr. Wills.)

PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS: COUNTING OF VOTES Clause 22 ‘(1) Schedule 1 to the Representation of the People Act 1983 (c. 2) (parliamentary elections rules) is amended as follows. POWER TO IMPOSE NEW NATIONALITY REQUIREMENTS (2) In rule 44 (attendance at counting of votes) after Amendments made: 36, page 12, line 35, leave out paragraph (5) insert— subsection (12) and insert— 899 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 900 Governance Bill Governance Bill ‘( ) Section 75(5) of the Race Relations Act 1976 (c. 74) and Schedule 2 Article 71(5) of the Race Relations (Northern Ireland) Order 1997 (S.I. 1997/869 (N.I. 6)) apply in relation to rules CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS AND TRANSITIONAL under subsection (7) above as they apply in relation to rules under subsection (1) above (so far as they would not otherwise PROVISION RELATING TO PART 1 apply). Amendments made: 44, page 58, line 37, leave out ( ) In section 75(5)(b) of that Act and Article 71(5)(b) of that sub-paragraph (4) and insert— Order any reference to the implementation of rules includes (in ‘(4) For subsection (4) substitute— particular) a reference to granting (or refusing to grant) “(4) See also section 1 of the Civil Service (Management exemptions under subsection (10)(b) above.’. Functions) Act 1992 under which functions conferred on the Amendment 37, page 13, line 1, leave out ‘limits any Minister for the Civil Service by section 3 of the Constitutional power’ and insert ‘affects— Reform and Governance Act 2010 may be delegated to the (a) section 82 of the Police Reform Act 2002 (c. 30), Scottish Ministers etc.” (b) section 41(3A) of the Police (Northern Ireland) (5) Omit subsection (9).’. Act 2000 (c. 32), or Amendment 45, page 60, line 11, leave out sub- (c) any power’.—(Mr. Wills.) paragraph (4) and insert— ‘(4) For subsection (4) substitute— Clause 27 “(4) See also section 1 of the Civil Service (Management Functions) Act 1992 under which functions conferred on the SECTION 24 NOT TO APPLY TO CERTAIN DESCRIPTIONS Minister for the Civil Service by section 3 of the Constitutional OF TREATIES Reform and Governance Act 2010 may be delegated to the Welsh Amendment made: 38, page 14, line 36, leave out Ministers etc.” ‘section 788 of the Income and Corporation Taxes (5) Omit subsection (10).’.—(Mr. Wills.) Act 1988 (c. 1)’ and insert ‘section 2 of the Taxation (International and Other Provisions) Title Act 2010 (c. )’.—(Mr. Wills.) Amendments made: 46, line 6, after ‘generally’ insert ‘; to make provision about the accounts to be prepared by the Clause 30 Electoral Commission’. Amendment 89, line 6, after ‘generally’ insert ENTITLEMENT TO VOTE ‘; to make provision relating to the counting of votes in Amendment made: 39, page 16, line 32, at end insert— parliamentary elections’. ‘( ) Subsection (1) has effect subject to any provision that may Amendment 47, line 22, at end insert be made, in an order under section [Conduct etc of referendum], for disregarding alterations made in a register of electors after a ‘; to amend the Public Records Act 1958 and the Freedom of specified date.’.—(Mr. Wills.) Information Act 2000’.—(Mr. Wills.) Third Reading Clause 64 9.3 pm SALARY PROTECTION FOR MEMBERS OF TRIBUNALS The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Mr. Michael Amendment made: 40, page 35, line 41, leave out Wills): Finally, we have reached the end of the Commons paragraph (b).—(Mr. Wills.) stages of the Bill. Since the beginning of its gestation more than two years ago, Parliament and politics have Clause 80 faced new challenges, and the Bill has grown to meet them. Its basic components have remained the same, POWERS OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY FOR WALES: but, as with a fine wine, it has absorbed elements from AUDITOR GENERAL FOR WALES its environment to mature into its final expression in the House tonight. Amendments made: 41, page 43, line 11, leave out from ‘14.1’ to end of line 12. The Bill represents significant constitutional reform. There have been six days in Committee on the Floor of Amendment 42, page 43, line 37, at end insert— the House, 18 consultations and publications, draft ‘(4) In section 94(6)(a) of, and paragraph 6Z of Schedule 5 to, Bills, and several Select Committee reports. Many hon. the Government of Wales Act 2006 (c. 32) for “paragraphs 1 Members have contributed diligently and tirelessly to to 6” substitute “paragraphs 1 to 6A”.’.—(Mr. Wills.) improving it as it went on its journey, and I should like to take this opportunity to thank them all. Clause 86 As far as possible, we have tried to proceed on the Amendment made: 57, page 48, line 37, leave out basis of consensus. The Public Administration Committee, clause 86.—(Mr. Wills.) for example, found “much to welcome in the Government’s proposals for the civil Clause 90 service” when it considered the draft Constitutional Renewal EXTENT, COMMENCEMENT, TRANSITIONAL PROVISION Bill. This part of the Bill delivers the Northcote-Trevelyan AND SHORT TITLE recommendations of more than 150 years ago. The Amendment made: Amendment 43, page 50, line 11, Joint Committee on the Draft Constitutional Renewal leave out paragraph (d) and insert— Bill agreed with the Government that ‘( ) the provisions of this Part other than section [Electoral “putting the Ponsonby Rule on a statutory footing, together with Commission accounts in relation to specified matters]’.— giving the House of Commons an effective veto on the ratification (Mr. Wills.) of a treaty, is a positive and beneficial reform”. 901 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 902 Governance Bill Governance Bill We welcomed constructive comments from both sides this forward at some speed. It is worth putting on of the House as the Bill proceeded. The Government record that the main reason why so many Members have considered and adopted amendments from my have taken this view is that it reflects the wishes of their hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) on constituents. We are not talking just about the will of nationality restrictions on Crown employment. We have Parliament; the will of the British people is at stake in also given our backing to an amendment tabled originally this, too. I am grateful to all hon. Members who played by the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield a constructive role. (Mr. Grieve) and his colleagues, including the hon. Also with cross-party support, we have introduced Member for Epping Forest (Mrs. Laing), to ensure that several significant amendments to the Bill. As a result the counting of votes in parliamentary elections will of the recent consensus on the issue of parliamentarians’ begin within four hours of the close of the poll. We are tax status, for example, it was possible to table amendments very grateful for the support of both sides on this with the support of the Conservative Front-Bench team, measure. which will ensure that hon. Members of both Houses of The Government tabled a further amending provision Parliament are liable to pay the same taxes as most UK on Report, as all sides recognised that the original taxpayers. Many hon. Members will recognise how clause needed further amendment to make it technically important that is in the current climate. We have also effective. The new clause provides that a returning officer delivered on the cross-party commitment to implement must take reasonable steps to begin counting the votes the report of the Committee on Standards in Public on the ballot papers as soon as practicable within four Life on MPs’ expenses. hours of the close of the poll. Where the count does not It is fair to say that some provisions have not been begin within that specified time period, which may of universally welcomed. New clauses to provide for a course be for perfectly understandable reasons, returning referendum, offering the public a choice between the officers will be required to submit a report to the current first-past-the-post system and the alternative Electoral Commission to explain why and to describe vote system, have left the Conservative party isolated in the steps that they have taken. their opposition. In contrast, we believe that we must The new clause, which was shared with the Opposition do all we can to restore trust in politics, and it is clear Front-Bench teams, strikes a balance between the strong that part of that process must involve consideration of and clearly expressed view of this House that overnight which electoral system can best serve the people of this counts should be the presumption and the need to avoid country. We believe that a credible alternative should be at this stage the considerable technical changes to electoral put to the people—it is not for the Government to legislation that would have been needed to make the decide this; it is for the British people themselves—one original clause 86 effective. Unforeseen circumstances that would retain the link between MPs and constituencies, on the night of the count—a major weather condition which we believe is fundamentally important. We believe in a remote constituency, for example—might well mean that most hon. Members—whatever their view of the that no further reasonable steps could have been taken electoral system—consider that link to be important, to ensure an overnight count. The approach taken in and we believe that the British people themselves consider the new clause allows for that, but the intention is to it to be a very valuable part of our political system. ensure that returning officers actively consider what action could reasonably be undertaken to achieve an In our view, the Bill as a whole gives greater clarity overnight count in as many constituencies as possible. and transparency to Government business, both financial That will continue at the next general election. and non-financial. It tightens rules and regulations on I want to make it clear that the new clause respects membership of both Houses of Parliament in the wake the independence of electoral returning officers, and I of the profoundly damaging controversy over some think that everyone in the House respects that. However, Members’ misuse of the allowances system, and it gives I should make it clear that if that independence is those rules and regulations teeth. It reasserts the right exercised at the forthcoming general election in a way of people to protest around Parliament if they are that is seen with hindsight to have flouted the clearly unhappy, and it puts in their hands the decision whether expressed wish of this House that there should be a to change the current electoral system if they feel that presumption in favour of an overnight count—with the they would prefer a different and a better one. This Bill exceptions that I have mentioned—I have no doubt reinforces the principles of probity, transparency and whatever that the new House elected in the next two or accountability at the heart of public life, and I hope three months will return to the issue. very much that Parliament will look favourably on it. Mrs. Laing: I entirely agree with everything the Minister has just said. May I make it clear that we entirely accept 9.10 pm that new clause 37 is superior in form, albeit identical in Mr. Grieve: I am aware that the Minister of State, intention, to the original clause 86? I am grateful to the Ministry of Justice, the right hon. Member for North Minister for coming forward with a better version of Swindon (Mr. Wills) is approaching the end of his time the law, but with the same intention. May I make it clear in Parliament. I know that the Bill is of great importance that we entirely support the Minister in saying that the to him, and I recognise that in piloting it through the will of this House and of Parliament is absolutely clear? House, he wanted to achieve as much consensus as There is no dissent. We trust that those who have the possible. duty to put into action the will of Parliament will do so forthwith. Let me say at once that the Conservatives have no difficulty in welcoming many aspects of the Bill. Indeed, Mr. Wills: I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for we have expressed our support for those aspects from those comments, and I pay tribute to her and her the outset. They include the move to put the civil service colleagues who played such a constructive role in bringing on a statutory footing, the proposal to beef up the 903 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 904 Governance Bill Governance Bill [Mr. Grieve] It has been a matter of considerable regret during the passage of the Bill that it has not been possible to Comptroller and Auditor General’s national audit role debate Opposition amendments that required debate and the work on judicial appointments, all of which, as and certainly should have been debated, such as our the Minister will recall, we supported in earlier debates new clause this evening about evening out the size of on the Bill. constituencies and reducing the size of the House. At We also welcome the small but nevertheless important the risk of repeating what I have said frequently, I do tidying-up of matters relating to, for instance, human not think that at any stage during the passage of the Bill rights claims against devolved Administrations, ratification and debate on the Floor of the House there has been of treaties, Crown employment and nationality. Although time wasting. Indeed, I think that the Minister will I must tell the Secretary of State and the Minister that acknowledge that this evening, in an effort to make the Bill does not quite live up to its grandiloquent progress, at times we have curtailed debate to make very title—certainly the “governance” bit—we can happily short contributions. Yetwe face the fact that, at Report stage welcome its sensible constitutional reforms, and we of a constitutional measure of considerable importance, therefore will not seek to divide the House tonight. a huge number of amendments have not been debated at all. I deeply regret that we have not had a chance to That said, there are some aspects of the Bill that we debate our proposals, which would have reinforced the find much more troublesome. I think it only right for first-past-the-post system, made it fairer and produced me to mention them, because given the timetable facing fairer results. the remaining life of this Parliament, sensible decisions will almost certainly have to be made at some point In so far as our proposal has any pain involved in it, I about whether the Bill can be enacted with the consensus say to the Secretary of State that, far from, as has been that will be needed at the end of the Parliament’s life or suggested, it being a piece of gerrymandering, the pain whether it should fail. As the Bill contains an adequate would fall fairly evenly. I cannot for the life of me see number of provisions that I want to see on the statute where the gerrymandering would be, because ultimately book, I hope that the Government will listen carefully the decisions as to the shape of constituencies would lie to what I have to say about the parts of it that continue entirely with the Boundary Commission, not with us as to cause us concern. politicians. Our inability to debate that in this place during the passage of the Bill strikes me as an enormous First, however, let me say something about new clause 37. missed opportunity. The title of the Bill does not reflect I am grateful to the Government for taking account of its true scope, and we have not had an opportunity to the concern expressed by Members in all parts of the conduct a debate on that matter. House about what appeared to be the creeping in of a substantial change in the way in which counts take I turn to other areas of the Bill. There are some place after elections. I am delighted that we were able to sensible amendments in respect of the House of Lords, table the new clause, and even more delighted that the which we also welcome, and we await with interest how Government were able to adopt it in a way that would the other place responds to them. Some of the amendments otherwise not have been possible. I have no doubt that are extremely good. We are delighted that our proposals one or two noises made about it by some returning about the tax status of Members of the House of officers are without merit or substance. Ultimately, it is Lords, put forward by my right hon. Friend the Leader for the House of Commons to decide how counts of the Opposition and tabled by us, enabled us to bring should take place, and not for bureaucrats to start about a change—[Interruption.] I see the hon. Member deciding that they are a law unto themselves. We are for Pendle (Mr. Prentice) smiling, but the fact of the fully entitled to lay down the ground rules for ourselves, matter is that, until we tabled that amendment, there especially if they are—as they appear to me to be—entirely was nothing in the amendment paper to bring that reasonable. about. It was only our intervention, and our saying that The Government have also done a great deal in that was clearly an area of public concern that needed introducing clauses relating to IPSA, which my right to be addressed, which finally enabled us to do that. I hon. Friend the Member for North-West Hampshire am delighted that it has happened. Times change, (Sir George Young) has already commented on. There and what may have been deemed to be acceptable in have been some sensible debates. We entirely endorse previous generations, when Commonwealth citizens, or the need for reform, and we are pleased that the opportunity Commonwealth residents, were encouraged to come has been taken of trying to resolve the matter as far as and spend parts of their careers in this country and possible before the general election. We hope very much then go back to their homes, is no longer seen as that the proposals will work and lead to far greater acceptable, because of the public perception that people public confidence in the way in which the House works. may derive tax advantages from it. That is all the more reason, therefore, to change those rules, but until we I have to turn to those bits that please us rather less. tabled that amendment, we were not in a position to do We think that the Government’s proposals for a referendum anything about it. I acknowledge that the hon. Member on the alternative vote were brought in in great haste for Pendle had this in his sights for a considerable and in the most extraordinary fashion at the end of a period, but he did not seem to be very successful in long process—the Government have previously shown persuading his own Front Benchers to take the issue themselves to be rather hostile to such proposals. We particularly seriously. think that a referendum would be a complete waste of money and undermine the first-past-the-post system, in which we believe and in which I think many Labour Mr. Gordon Prentice: What’s new then? Members also believe. It strikes us that that measure is unnecessary, and we certainly would not wish to see it Mr. Grieve: The hon. Gentleman says, “What’s new?” placed on the statute book. I acknowledge that he has a personal approach, which 905 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 906 Governance Bill Governance Bill is much respected by Conservative Members, in terms what the impact is, particularly if they have rooms or of being willing to articulate what he believes to be offices that are adjacent to Parliament square itself. It right. On that we are in agreement. was our understanding that this was a subject where the We are less in agreement on two matters relating to Government recognised that there was an issue, were the House of Lords. I do not wish to go over the first in happy—we thought—for there to be a free vote and great detail, but it is worth reminding ourselves that the were encouraging that it should not be seen as a partisan Government’s decision to get rid of the by-elections for issue, as indeed we did not. We tabled an amendment in electing a certain number of hereditary peers pending good faith, which we very much hoped would command the final resolution of the constitutional status and acceptance. Indeed, until very recently we thought it reform of the Upper House is a flagrant breach of the would receive considerable encouragement from the undertakings that they gave at the time of the initial Government. It is therefore unfortunate that this Bill House of Lords reform. I very much regret that; this is will be going ahead without a section dealing with the not a final reform of the House of Lords. If it is, the noise nuisance in Parliament square. Government have been misleading the public as to what I am the first to accept the cock-up theory of politics, the final reform might be. For those reasons, I do not rather than the conspiracy theory, and the Minister for think that this is a good idea, and I strongly believe that Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism, who answered the Government will find that when the Bill gets to the for the Government on Report, appeared to say that he other place, they may have difficulties there as well. had been brought into this matter at the very last Then there is an issue that is of deep concern to us minute, so I can understand why he might not be aware but is quite capable of being resolved. I have to put the of the Government’s previously stated position on a Minister on notice that unless it is sorted out, it will number of occasions, particularly by the Secretary of prejudice the ability of the Bill to go on the statute State for Justice, and have suddenly got cold feet. I book; it is the extraordinary procedure by which it will found it difficult to disentangle the reasons for that. On be possible, under the Bill as it stands, for a Member of the one hand, they might have been procedural, in that the House of Lords to resign and immediately stand for he shared the intention but thought there was a defect election for the House of Commons. I think that I am in the Opposition amendment. I have to say that it is right in saying that the Liberal Democrats and ourselves— not the first time that Opposition amendments have and, indeed, I suspect others in this House—tend to see been defective, however; it is often jolly difficult for that as a device by which certain Government Ministers Oppositions to draft amendments that are perfect, and who have found their political careers in this place if the Government support the principle behind them, ended by various problems and gone to the other place we rather expect them to lend a hand in tidying things for a resting period while they recover their strength, up. On the other hand, however, the problem might like Lord Voldemort, can come back to this House, have been that the Minister for Policing, Crime and reinvigorated. Quite frankly that is unacceptable. Counter-Terrorism had suddenly decided that there was some electoral, or other, advantage in arguing that There must be a period between resignation from the people should be allowed to bombard the Houses of House of Lords and return or re-embodiment in this Parliament with amplified noise at nuisance level for Chamber. There should be a period during which that hour after hour every day. I do hope that the latter is not return is not permitted. It is likely that that matter will the case. Indeed, I find it difficult to believe it is the case, be returned to in another place. If there is no time, and because of all the expressions of concern about this we get to the wash-up and there have to be discussions issue from Members throughout the House, including about issues in the Bill, that is one that will have to be the Government Back Benches. sorted out to our satisfaction if the Bill is to go on the May I therefore make a plea to the Minister? I hope statute book. As it stands, it is contemptuous of the that he understands that we felt that we had to put the public and of the reasons why people should be going matter to the vote, because of the Government’s unexpected to the House of Lords in the first place as legislators; withdrawal of support for the proposal without coming usually because they accept that some aspect of political up with any alternative. Clearly, the opportunity still ambition is gone and not as a springboard to a resurrected exists to deal with this, and I urge the Minister to do so existence in this place. For those reasons, I hope that the in a way both that sends out a message that the House Government will listen to the arguments in the other of Commons supports civil liberties and freedom of place and act accordingly. expression, and, equally reasonably, that maintains that Finally we come, with some regret, to the issue concerning there are proper ways of expressing oneself that do not noise in Parliament square. The Government tabled involve a noise nuisance perpetrated hour after hour. I some sensible amendments to the Bill to try to resolve cannot believe that it is beyond the wit of a parliamentary some of the civil liberties issues surrounding demonstrations draftsman to put something together that can provide around Parliament where we were unhappy—the that without also silencing the bells of Westminster Government had begun to accept out unhappiness—that Abbey, as has been suggested in rather apocalyptic the structures that had been set up previously were a fashion. I am by no means persuaded that the amendment fetter on civil liberties and freedom of expression. We that was tabled would have done that, but it was clearly were supportive of the Government on that and pleased not the intention that it should do so. that they were in. The Bill is lacking in this respect. The Government We had also understood—we believed that the took a specific decision to deal with demonstrations in Government shared our concern—that in some cases the vicinity of Parliament square, which was a sensible the right to freedom of expression was being abused by move, but at the end a key component is missing. I urge people bombarding Parliament with amplified noise to the Minister to address this when he goes away to such a level as to constitute a serious nuisance. Indeed discuss these matters with his colleagues and to consider anyone who works in this building will know exactly what is to be done in the other place. 907 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 908 Governance Bill Governance Bill [Mr. Grieve] have taken up large elements of Lord Steel’s Bill, but they failed to take up the residual bit that proposes that I do not want to take up any more of the House’s it is time to put the House of Lords Appointments time. This Bill has been a bit of magical mystery tour, in Commission on a statutory basis. I think that the House that we have never known from one day to the next of Lords will have something to say about that omission. what would be in it. It started out in concept as very That bears directly on today’s controversy about Lord grand indeed, but by the time it was launched on Ashcroft, because it cannot be right that when a non- Second Reading it had shrunk to mouse-like size. It has statutory body imposes an obligation on a prospective since been mildly reinvigorated in some areas, but it is Member of the House of Lords to come onshore for tax defective in others. We have got to try to sort that out. If purposes that can be disregarded without any sanction. we do so, I would like to think that even if the Minister It cannot be right that a non-statutory body can start is not completely satisfied with the outcome, he will at inventing rules of that kind which are then not enforced. least leave this place with a proper sense that he has We have to be serious about this machinery and not actually achieved something that is a monument to his just have a row about the consequences of it. We must ensure endeavours. I say to him that I would like to see that that we have the machinery embedded, constitutionally, happen. A bit of flexibility on the part of the Government in the proper place—I suspect that we are not done on in the dying weeks of this Parliament can ensure that it that. does. I was not one of those who was pressing to include a provision on the electoral system, but, on balance, I 9.29 pm think that the alternative vote system is probably preferable to first past the post. I merely note in the margin of that Dr. Tony Wright: I shall be very brief. In some ways, discussion that it has implications for us. Everyone this should be called the “constitutional highways and party to that discussion was lining up to say how much byways” Bill, because we have roamed freely during its they believe in the single Member constituency. Of passage. For a moment I wish to return to where we course we all love the single Member constituency started, because I was keen on where we started and, in because we are all “the single Member”. I am not sure particular, on the proposition that the time had finally that it looks quite the same from the point of view of come, after 150 years, to put the civil service on to a the citizen. I am about to become what we like to call statutory basis. Many of us had been campaigning year “an ordinary person” and, as such, my view of these in, year out on the issue and undertakings had been matters is liable to be quite different from the one that I given by this Government and, in some respects, by the have as the single Member for my constituency sitting in previous one, that this would happen, but I had begun this place. Casting an eye in the Speaker’s direction, I to think that it never would. I am delighted that it has shall simply say that at some point we will have to revisit been possible, through political consensus—that was the guidance if we are all so attached to the single always the precondition for this happening—to get Member constituency. After all, we send letters out to within a close distance of having secured it. I can say to people saying that we cannot possibly deal with their the House that this measure will be an enormous source case if they are not one of our constituents. In fact we of satisfaction to the civil service of this country, which say—I do it, too—that there is a strict parliamentary has wanted this constitutional underpinning for a long convention against it. If someone happens to have a time—securing it will be a huge achievement. Whatever Member of Parliament who they find politically or else happens in the remaining life of this Bill, I hope personally so antipathetic that they want to go nowhere that we can at least secure that provision because that near them, which is not inconceivable, and seeks to was its core constitutional element when we set out and approach another Member of Parliament to take up not to secure it at this stage would be serious. their cause, I am not so sure that that citizen—that Given that that provision was the Bill’s core element ordinary person—will feel quite so attached to the at the beginning, I regret very much that many amendments single Member constituency when they get the letter relating to it were never able to be taken because we saying that there is a strict parliamentary convention went off on this constitutional tour. However, I am that means that the second MP cannot deal with them. delighted that the Government have now accepted what If that is the general consensus of opinion in the House, is contained in amendment 35. It has not been discussed even if we might change in the direction of the alternative at any point, and in a different world it would have been vote, we must revisit some of the conventions to which the subject of exhaustive discussion because it turns on we say we are so attached. the powers that we think special advisers should have; I had hoped to go to my political grave having this would have been a major item of debate on this Bill. secured one further thing, which I have failed to do. It is So although I say that it is good that right at the end the a simple thing: to allow citizens to take up cases directly Government have accepted an amendment that the with the ombudsman. When the House set up the Public Administration Committee had proposed, it is ombudsman system in 1967, it worried that the system not satisfactory that it has not been discussed as we would undermine the ability of Members of Parliament progressed. A long list of other amendments on the civil to deal with the grievances of their constituents. That service have not been discussed either, and that cannot turned out to be completely false. For the past 30 years, be satisfactory. successive ombudsmen have called for the right of direct Having said that, I was one of those who was pressing citizen access. The Cabinet Office had a discussion for some of the highways and byways to be explored 10 years ago and it recorded that there was universal and, in particular, some of the tidying-up measures dissatisfaction with the present system. In 2004, my relating to the House of Lords. I was pleased that we Committee, in association with the ombudsman, did a managed to accommodate those in the Bill, but my survey of all Members of Parliament and found that regret is that we did so selectively. The Government there was a clear majority in favour of direct access. 909 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 910 Governance Bill Governance Bill Here we are again, about to face a general election parts of the country, votes are never counted on election and for many weeks citizens will not have access to the night. Indeed, in some areas, such as the far northern ombudsman because there will not be a Member of islands and highlands of Scotland, there have been Parliament through whom they can do so. As the times when the count did not happen until the Saturday. ombudsman has pointed out, this is a completely We must understand the practical difficulties that many unsustainable position. It would take one simple clause returning officers face. of the kind that we have described to make the required The omissions in the Bill are very important. The change and I suspect that the House of Lords will be hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) has interested in that, even if we are not. described many aspects that the Select Committee on Finally, I said earlier that I thought that the Bill was a Public Administration wanted to discuss. One such Christmas tree without Christmas, but I do think that missing issue is the measures regarding the role of the there are things of value in it that should be welcomed. Attorney-General that were in the draft Bill but mysteriously We might not get all the goodies that Christmas can disappeared from the version that was put forward on bring, but we shall get the orange and the chocolate Second Reading. I have wanted to discuss that issue mouse, and they are certainly worth having. throughout the Bill’s various stages, including Committee and Report, but we have not got around to it and we 9.37 pm have never had a proper debate about what the Government David Howarth: I certainly agree with what the hon. were up to. It still strikes me as utterly unsatisfactory Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) said about that a Minister of the Crown should have a decisive say this Bill’s being a Christmas tree bill. I also agree with in any way about whether a particular individual or what he said about the ombudsman. A number of company is prosecuted. That aspect of our system of serious aspects of the Bill could have been attached to government must be put right. International organisations the tree rather more usefully than some of the stuff that have noted that that is not how a modern state should is in it. operate. In introducing the debate on Third Reading, the Nevertheless, the civil service part of the Bill is a Minister said that the Bill had matured like good wine. great achievement and should be strongly welcomed. It is certainly different from the previous version. It is The last-minute acceptance of new clauses on special very different from the draft Bill, to the extent that one advisers should also be strongly welcomed. They are might fear that this is one of those French wine scandals. not quite right in our view and so we tabled some The original draft Bill had about 45 clauses, 17 of which amendments regarding those measures, which were never are now no more—they are nowhere to be seen. The discussed, about precisely how that should be done—in remaining 28 clauses form less than a third—more like the law or simply in a code of practice. Another crucial a quarter following our proceedings on Report—of the issue that we never got around to discussing is how Bill. This is a very different Bill from the one with which many special advisers there should be and whether we started. It is certainly much longer, as it is about there should be a numerical limit. Without such a limit double the size that it was when we started to discuss it it will still be possible to appoint 3,000 SpAds and to on Second Reading. end up with a senior civil service that is more of the The main measure of how different the Bill is can be American style than the British style. We should have seen if one looks at the long title, which is now nearly discussed that issue more seriously. three times longer than the title with which we started. I congratulate the hon. Member for Hendon Topic after topic—and specific topic after specific topic— (Mr. Dismore) on getting the provisions of the Crown have been added. That is an interesting way of assessing Employment (Nationality) Bill through. He has been what has happened to the Bill. The Government never struggling with those measures for many years, and it is wanted it to be a constitutional reform Bill in the sense good to see that, in the end, they have made it to the that it was about the constitution of the country. The statute book—at least at this stage. long title was never designed to allow extensive debate about any topic of constitutional reform. It was specifically I strongly welcome the progress on the treaties part of designed to describe a small number of specific reforms. the Bill, but there has not been much progress. The Having set out on that route, the Government then Government still insist on using the negative resolution added more and more specific topics without there procedure, which effectively denies Parliament a voice. being any great theme. It is a more open procedure, but it still is not effective. It Nevertheless, there is much in the Bill to welcome. is disappointing that the Government have chosen not Let me start with new clause 37, which the Minister to move on other aspects of the prerogative on which spoke about at the start of his speech, about counting they have promised to move since at least 2007 and votes on election night. I strongly welcome his comments earlier, such as war powers and the Dissolution of on that measure, especially the way in which he described Parliament—an issue that we will face all too soon. how it will operate. It is important that it should have On the referendum on electoral reform, it is the the flexibility that he described because there is a danger, wrong system, as it is not a proportional system. However, especially when there is consensus in the House, of that reform is a small step in the right direction. We are legislating at great speed and ending up with an unworkable, prepared to face a referendum with equanimity. We rigid piece of legislation. I hope not only that returning hope that a future Government will move much more officers will listen to what the Minister and the Opposition radically towards an electoral system that is not only spokesman, the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield fair but produces legitimate Governments. The present (Mr. Grieve), have said about how important this matter system produces Governments who are elected on such is to many Members of Parliament, but that they will a low percentage of the vote that, regardless of party, listen regarding the important flexibility that the Minister they have little public support—so little, in fact, that put into his interpretation of the new clause. In some they are unpopular and illegitimate from the start. 911 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 912 Governance Bill Governance Bill [David Howarth] Secondly, I want to make it clear that I do not see the question of noise as the be-all and end-all of this I very much welcome those parts of the Bill that deal legislation. I never suggested that it was. with the implementation of Kelly. I think that the Government have fulfilled their promise in that regard, David Howarth: I am glad for the final sentence of and that is much to be welcomed. that intervention. It strikes me as disproportionate to suggest that reform of the civil service should be put at On the House of Lords, I am greatly disappointed any risk because of a disagreement about something that we have not made proper progress towards the else. promise that my party made in 1911. We promised then to introduce a House of Lords that was elected on a Mr. Grieve: I just want to make myself clear. As I popular basis, but it looks like 100 years or more will indicated to the Minister, I have very deep disquiet pass before we achieve that. I am sure that there are about certain elements of the Bill, but the question of members of the Conservative party who hope to delay noise is not one of them. I expressed regret that a it even longer, but it must come. We cannot have a consensual approach—and I thought that we had achieved legislature that is appointed. We cannot have people consensus on the matter—seemed to have failed. I also with a serious say in what counts as the law of the land said that I hoped very much that the issue could be dealt who are not elected— with in the other place. David Howarth: I am very glad of that clarification. I Mrs. Laing: Yes, we can. am sure that the Minister is too. The big problem with the Bill now is timing. Its David Howarth: The hon. Lady says that we can have process through the House has not been handled well. such people, and we do have them, but should we? We eventually had six days in Committee on the Floor Again, how is that a legitimate system of government? I of the House, whereas we were originally going to have do not think that hon. Members on any side of the four. The Government’s real intentions for getting the House realise quite how near to the edge of illegitimacy Bill out of this House and into the other House were we are with our system of government. We spend a lot not made clear at any point. I suspect that the Bill will of time congratulating ourselves here, without realising get its Second Reading in the other place some time how deep the political malaise in our political system is. between 22 and 24 March. That is very late in the life of That malaise extends to the House of Lords and to the this Parliament, and the Bill is unlikely to receive a voting system for the Commons. Committee stage in the House of Lords. Progress was also made on the tax status of Members The Bill contains important and welcome reforms, of the House of Lords, although it was not quite what it but it is in danger of being hacked to pieces in the should have been. What sort of person should we have process of negotiation that happens at the end of in the Lords? That is the question to ask: the important Parliaments. It would be regrettable if that were the thing is not whether that person should pay tax, but case. This is not a real constitutional reform Bill, which whether a person who does not want to pay tax should would deal with much bigger issues. It would be a be there in the first place. shame, however, if the achievement, such as it is, were lost in procedural wrangles at the end of the Parliament. Progress has been made on public order. Two steps forward have been taken by removing the excessive Mr. Mark Francois (Rayleigh) (Con): A few minutes regulation of protest near Parliament, but the institution ago, the hon. Gentleman mentioned the debates that we of a heavy-handed regime amounts to one step back. I had on the provisions relating to the ratification of believe that we will have to watch that regime very treaties. From memory, when we debated ratification closely, to make sure that the powers that it contains are processes—we also discussed Lisbon—I said that in the not abused. other place there had been a vote on the so-called in-out I profoundly disagree with what the hon. and learned referendum, in which the Liberal Democrats voted against Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) said about noise. taking a different position from the one that they took This is a constitutional Bill, and the noise made outside in the House. We had another debate on a completely Parliament does not strike me as a big enough issue for different topic last Friday. While I was preparing for it, I a Bill like this. Also, I caution him against treating noise looked again at the Division lists, and in fairness, it as an issue significant enough to obstruct the progress turns out that the Liberal Democrats abstained from of a Bill of this importance. I am sure that he did not the vote in the other place, rather than voting against mean that. the measure. As he mentioned it, may I take the opportunity to set the record straight?

Mr. Grieve: I want to make two points to the hon. David Howarth: I am grateful for that partial peace Gentleman that he may agree with. First, part of the offering from the hon. Gentleman, and I hope that that Bill deals with demonstrations in Parliament square. is the spirit in which the Bill makes progress. Strictly speaking, that is not a constitutional issue, but rather one of the odd, Christmas-tree aspects of the 9.51 pm legislation. However, he may agree that it is quite an Mr. Dismore: I do not want to say a great deal, but I important change, in light of the deep disquiet that do want to say something about chapter 4, which deals exists about fettering freedom of expression and civil with Crown employment nationality provisions. I did liberties. Given that context, the issue of noise clearly not have a chance to address the matter when we could have been dealt with in this Bill, and he may also considered my amendments in Committee, because of agree that it is unfortunate that we have not done so. the guillotine that was operating. The extent to which 913 Constitutional Reform and 2 MARCH 2010 Constitutional Reform and 914 Governance Bill Governance Bill the Bill has been subject to guillotine motions throughout 9.55 pm its progress is regrettable, as it has meant that we could not discuss many things that should have been discussed Mr. Wills: With the leave of the House, I shall say a at greater length and that some things were not discussed few words in conclusion. This has been a good-spirited at all. Third Reading debate, and I am very grateful for all that has been said. In response, I shall pick up on some of I wanted to refer to the provision, because it is rather the points that have been made. close to my heart, as several Front-Bench spokespeople have said. I began work on the issue about 10 years ago, Much reference has been made to the Bill’s protracted and the measure has gone through various guises, including gestation, and dictionaries have been pillaged to find presentation Bills, ten-minute Bills and so on. The the appropriate imagery. It is true that the Bill has taken object was to straighten out the provisions on recruitment a considerable time to complete its journey to this stage, to the civil service. The measure has been around for a and one reason is that we have genuinely tried to move long time—I think that this was my ninth attempt to forward consensually. It has been, as my hon. Friend legislate on the issue—and it began as a hand-out Bill the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) just said, one with Government support. The Government then went of the most scrutinised Bills ever, and I know that we rather neutral and decided that it was not such a good could all have done with more time on it. However, thing after all, but eventually we won them round again. there has been a great degree of scrutiny. All Members After a lengthy period, the measure in its various guises accept that we have tried to respond to the real concerns enjoyed different degrees of support from the Government, of this House and to move forward on that basis, and I and the same is true of the Opposition. think that we have had a great deal of success. Despite all the grudging remarks about the Bill’s lack The Bill, which had no priority at all, reached Report of ambition, somehow everyone has found something stage on three separate occasions, which was something good to say about it, and together that means that it is a of an achievement. The late Eric Forth took it upon significant Bill. I must give credit to the hon. and himself particularly to victimise the Bill, and when he learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) for the passed away, the hon. Member for Christchurch way in which he adapted his previous characterisation (Mr. Chope) considered it to be the Eric Forth memorial of the Bill, and I am extremely grateful for his Bill, given the right hon. Gentleman’s opposition to it, acknowledgement that it is no longer a mouse—even so it was an effort to make progress with it. Realistically, though my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase we are now going to put right problems that go back the (Dr. Wright) seemed to think that a chocolate mouse best part of 200 years. When the Act of Settlement was was a good thing, rather than a pejorative phrase. introduced, it was a welcome measure, but has time went by, it faded away, with the Aliens Restriction Anyway, I hope that when we look collectively at the Act 1914, and a plethora of regulations, orders and EU endeavours in which we have all been engaged, we can directives, which intersected to create such a spider’s all feel proud of what we have achieved. I am very web of provision that it was impossible to work out who grateful not only to all hon. Members present, but to all was entitled to work for the civil service and who was who have contributed significantly to the legislation on not. Some strange criminal offences were created—people the Joint Committee on Human Rights, in the various did not even know they existed—and there were weird Select Committee hearings and in all our protracted anomalies whereby the widow of a 9/11 victim who was debates on the Floor of the House. an American citizen married to a British person could I have listened very carefully to what Members have not work for the civil service, but Abu Hamza, should said, and I particularly listened to what the hon. and he pass the exams, I suppose, could, because he had learned Gentleman said about how we need to move British nationality.There were all sorts of strange outcomes, forward. Clearly, there are still areas for further discussion but we now have workable provisions. and areas about which significant Members still feel Clause for clause, this is probably the most scrutinised strongly, but I undertake on my own behalf and that of piece of legislation that the House has introduced in my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor and Secretary recent years, apart from the fox-hunting legislation, of State to do all that we can to meet those concerns in given the number of times that it has been debated and the remaining weeks of this Parliament. considered. We now have provisions that will create a I am confident and have no doubt that we can make civil service that is more representative of our multicultural some progress. I doubt whether we can do everything society. The legislation will reserve about 10 per cent. of that everybody wants, and all of us may have to make civil service posts where it is appropriate that UK some hard decisions in the next two or three weeks, but nationals hold them, but overall we have workable and I hope that we can do so while remembering what gave sensible provisions that will create a civil service that rise to the Bill in the first place and the subject to which reflects our society. we have turned over and over again in all our discussions: I am very pleased that, at long last, we have been able the need to restore trust in our democratic politics. to take the legislation this far. There is always many a The House has had a tough time during the progress slip between cup and lip, but given the assurances of of this Bill, and there have been many problems, but support from the various Front Benchers, I hope that, MPs’ expenses did not create them; to a large extent it with a fair wind, this part of the Bill will survive the crystallised inherent problems, which all of us in our wash-up and, equally, the depredations of the other different ways—in our constituencies and here in this place, which it has unfortunately never managed to place—have wrestled with for a considerable time, and reach. I live in hope that, at long last and after nine we have to take away that message. That is what gave attempts, we have finally achieved the objective of reforming rise to the Bill, and in seeing it through to what I hope the nationality rules of the civil service. will be its conclusion during the remaining weeks of 915 2 MARCH 2010 Business without Debate 916

[Mr. Wills] EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing this Parliament, I hope that we can all remember why Order No. 119(11)), we are doing this: to restore the trust of the people whom we all serve. EUROPEAN DEFENCE AGENCY ACTIVITY IN 2009 AND I think that the Bill goes a considerable way towards 2010 doing that, directly through the measures that we have That this House takes note of the unnumbered explanatory taken to set up the Independent Parliamentary Standards memorandum dated 3 December 2009, Report by the Head of the Authority and everything around it, and indirectly by European Defence Agency to the Council on activities in 2009, rewiring our constitutional arrangements in order to and European Union Documents No. 16275/09, European Defence Agency document on Three year financial framework 2010-2012, make them more transparent, to make all of us more postponement and 2010 Budget adoption and No. 16462/09, accountable to the people whom we serve, to give power European Defence Agency Guidelines for the Agency’s work in back to Parliament and to fetter the Executive. We have 2010; and supports the Government’s aim of ensuring that the had a lot of discussion about that. I believe that when EDA is used to deliver enhanced military capability across the people look at the Bill, they will see that the Government’s EU.—(Mr. Heppell.) instinct is to give power away. It is important that we Question agreed to. remember that as we move forward. In conclusion, I pay tribute again to everyone who PETITIONS has contributed so much to the Bill. I am confident that when historians look at it, they will— Carer Poverty Debate interrupted (Programme Order, this day). 10.1 pm The Speaker put forthwith the Question already proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83E), That the Bill Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I rise to present a be now read the Third time. petition that calls for a better deal for carers. We can all agree about the wonderful work that they do, and we Question agreed to. know that society would not be sustained as it is without Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. them. I warmly thank Darren Osborne and the 600 or so who have signed his electronic petition, which is Business without Debate fronted by the paper petition that I have with me. Campaigners will be taking the matter to the Prime Minister tomorrow at No. 10. Meanwhile, I am honoured DELEGATED LEGISLATION to support the good work of all who have signed the petition. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)), The petition states: The Petition of Mr Darren Osborne, Carers Poverty Alliance, Carers Poverty Protest and others, AUDIT COMMISSION Declares that carers allowance should be paid at a level that That the Code of Audit Practice 2010 for local NHS bodies, a gives carers the dignity, quality of life and recognition this hard copy of which was laid before this House on 14 January, be working group deserves within the benefits system; that all carers approved.—(Mr. Heppell.) who provide 35 hours per week unpaid care for a relative, partner Question agreed to. or friend of any age with a long term illness or disability, or who is elderly and frail, be paid an increased allowance regardless of Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing means or receipt of any other benefits, including the state pension; Order No. 118(6)), further notes that carers should not be forced to live on a limited That the Code of Audit Practice 2010 for local government income, nor should they have to self fund their caring role, by bodies, a copy of which was laid before this House on 14 January, living off their limited savings; that for these and other valid be approved.—(Mr. Heppell.) reasons, carers who provide over 35 hours of care per week should Question agreed to. receive an increased carers allowance exempt from assessment for all other benefits and believes that this is in the public interest. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons Order No. 118(6)), urges the Government to pay increased carers allowance exempt from all other benefit assessments to all carers who provide over LICENCES AND LICENSING 35 hours of care per week. That the draft Licensing Act 2003 (Mandatory Licensing And the Petitioners remain, etc. Conditions) Order 2010, which was laid before this House on [P000746] 27 January, be approved.—(Mr. Heppell.) Anti-Social Behaviour The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until tomorrow 10.3 pm (Standing Order No. 41A). Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I have a second Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing petition, about antisocial behaviour, which we all know Order No. 118(6)), destroys the quality of life of decent, law-abiding residents. We should not tolerate it—we should seek to stop it, not OIL TAXATION excuse, explain or understand it. There is too much That the draft Field Allowance for New Oil Fields Order 2010, political correctness surrounding antisocial behaviour, which was laid before this House on 3 February, be approved.— and I thank Mr. and Mrs. Martin and those who have (Mr. Heppell.) signed their petition for their efforts in trying to remove Question agreed to. that blight from their community. 917 Business without Debate 2 MARCH 2010 918

Following is the full text of the petition: Porton Down [The Petition of Mr and Mrs Martin, the residents of Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House St George’s Walk and others, do now adjourn.—(Mr. Heppell.) Declares that the constant playing of football on the 10.5 pm green adjacent to St George’s Walk is causing a nuisance Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): Most people in south to local residents by damaging the green, surrounding Wiltshire are very proud of the achievements of both properties and area; that the participating youths behave establishments at Porton Down: the Centre for Emergency anti-socially which causes distress and creates unnecessary Preparedness and Response, and the Defence Science work for residents who must clean up the mess left at the and Technology Laboratory. If they did not exist, they end of the day; further declares that the Council has a would have to be invented. In the fevered minds of statutory responsibility, under the Environmental Protection journalists, they are shadowy and mysterious homes of Act 1990, to take reasonable steps to investigate any the dark arts, and likely to generate extravagant language, complaint of a nuisance in their area; that for these and but to most local people the reality is very different. We other valid reasons, Castle Point Borough Council should know that the work of all involved, from the scientists prohibit the playing of football on this area of the green of international repute to the staff who keep the place and plants trees around the green to increase the safety of going, is vital to our national interest and well-being. properties and the visual amenities for the community. It all started in 1915 when chemical weapons were The Petitioners therefore request that the House of first used against British troops. The carnage was appalling. Commons urges the Government to press Castle Point In 1916, work started on anti-gas defence and respirator Borough Council and local Councillors to immediately development, as well as research on how chlorine, mustard investigate this nuisance, ban football on the green and gas and phosgene were disseminated. Porton Down was begin planting trees for the community wellbeing. chosen because it is an isolated, 7,000 acre site with very And the Petitioners remain, etc.] little human habitation downwind for many miles. [P000745] By 1956, the United Kingdom had abandoned any sort of chemical and biological warfare capability and Traffic Calming (Irchester) restricted work to hazard assessment and defence. In 1979, the Government split off the Ministry of Defence 10.4 pm Porton Down biology department to the Department Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I should like of Health, which established the Centre for Applied to present a petition that has been organised by Mr. Brian Microbiology and Research, which is now part of the Cheney of the Wollaston road residents and road users Health Protection Agency and known as the Centre for group, who went out in the most inclement weather to Emergency Preparedness and Response. However, the get 543 signatures. two establishments, which are treated as one by the Health and Safety Executive, work together, adding The petition states: resilience to both. That relationship should not be The Humble Petition of Residents of Irchester, Northamptonshire broken. and the surrounding areas. Dangerous pathogens of humans, animals and plants Sheweth that there is a problem with speeding traffic through are a major threat to public health and the nation’s Irchester, welcomes the efforts of local councillors, council officers economy.At Porton Down, research is done to understand and the police in devising road calming measures; that the Petitioners support the mini roundabout, the vehicle-activated signs, the dangerous pathogens, and how to detect and treat them. police enforcement scheme and other measures; but that the Pathogens evolve constantly, so we must always be one Petitioners have reservations about the chicanes on the Wollaston step ahead—some 38 new species of human pathogen Road; and notes that a survey of 543 people showed that the have been found in the past 25 years. Climate change majority wanted revised traffic-calming in Wollaston Road. will affect the emergence and characteristics of infectious Wherefore your Petitioners pray that your Honourable House diseases, and their transmission in the UK. Globalisation urges the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and the ease of international travel allow infections to to request that Northamptonshire County Council in conjunction spread rapidly. with the Borough Council of Wellingborough and Irchester Parish Dangerous pathogens can be weaponised and the Council, review the chicanes in Wollaston Road to see whether alternative or revised traffic-calming measures are necessary. security services are alert to the potential for the malicious use of pathogenic material as a terrorist weapon. Anthrax And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray, &c. was used as a weapon in the USA in 2001. Porton [P000747] Down has always been a world leader in that work, as I discovered when visiting the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia, and the US Government’s Lawrence Livermore Laboratory in California. Indeed, the US Government have invested in HPA Porton Down and currently commission work there. The HPA has been at the forefront of tackling every biological problem in the past 25 years. In 1986, bovine spongiform encephalopathy was identified, and later the human variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. In 2001, more than 6 million animals were destroyed in response to foot and mouth disease. Swine flu put HPA Porton Down under pressure in terms of public health planning, anti-viral stockpiling and accelerated vaccine manufacture. 919 Porton Down2 MARCH 2010 Porton Down 920

[Robert Key] So what are the risks? Terlings Park cannot accommodate all the CEPR activities and there is no room for growth, Smallpox, Ebola, anthrax, plague, botulinum, clostridium whereas all the other sites could move to Porton Down difficile, ricin, West Nile disease, swine flu and other tomorrow with room to spare. The close working pathogens that are continually evolving and changing relationship with the military side of Porton Down are all in a day’s work at the centre. They are the most would be lost and so would their joint resilience. If deadly pathogens in the world. I salute the scientific CEPR is moved to Harlow, it will in fact disintegrate. work force and their supporters whose research, All the years of expertise in safe handling of the most developments and trials at Porton Down help to protect dangerous organisms in the world will be lost, as will our nation every single day and prepare us for the the animal modelling and translation on interventions. worst, whether natural or man-made. Also manufactured The move would also undermine Porton Down’s external at Porton Down is life-saving Erwinase, used to treat income-generating capacity, which currently covers more leukaemia, the most common childhood cancer, saving than two thirds of the costs of running CEPR every some 1,400 young lives every year. year. All Governments have recognised the growing importance Most of the scientists have roots in the Salisbury of this work. In 2008, the Government announced a community and do not wish to move to Harlow. Many major multi-million pound rebuilding programme to of them work on programmes funded by the US National give the HPAstate-of-the-art, world-class high-containment Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, which has laboratories to levels CL3 and CL4. They would take supplied most of the investment necessary. Would it full advantage of the highly specialised science community stand by and watch CEPR walk away to Essex? Would at Porton Down and rebuild on the 85-acre North Field it fund its investment all over again? The risk is too site. The high-level security of the site, co-located with high. theMinistryof Defencelaboratories,isideal.Thisredevelopment The physical security of the Porton Down campus is known as the Chrysalis programme. infrastructure bears no comparison to the Harlow site, which would be very vulnerable. The introduction of The local community is supportive. Indeed, generations dangerous pathogens to the Harlow urban environment of scientists are the local community, and their presence is high risk and I do wonder whether the good people of has seen the development of exceptionally large and Harlow would really wish their council to agree to it. successful science departments in local schools. Wiltshire Inevitably, animals used in trials, including primates, council is proactive in providing infrastructure and would have to travel by road from Porton Down to community services as well readily granting planning Harlow, where safe animal accommodation would have permission and promoting the emerging Porton science to be provided to support the biological investigation park. In September 2009, the chief executive of the services. Would that be acceptable to the citizens of HPA wrote to me saying: Harlow? “We continue to be on track to finalise and submit the Outline The Minister confirmed in a parliamentary answer, Business Case for the project in Spring 2010”. on 22 February, that the CEPR has been working since In October 2009, out of the blue, someone mentioned 2005 to provide advice and expertise to the organisers of Terlings Park in Harlow, and the possible conversion of the Olympic and Paralympic games in London in 2012. a mothballed 30-year-old pharmaceutical plant, as an Any incident during the Olympic games would occur at alternative to the on-site rebuild, on which the HPA had a time of maximum disruption to the Porton Down already spent £10 million. Last month, Terlings Park CEPR, if it were on the move to Harlow. became the HPA board’s favoured location. This about-turn The proposed move of 800 Government employees was met with shocked disbelief by the work force at to Harlow in the crowded south-east of England is Porton Down. Both management and trade unions, on exactly contrary to the Lyons review, which said that behalf of the whole work force, have made the argument public employees should be moved out of the south-east. against such a misconceived move. HPA management Such a move would also be contrary to the report of claims that the short-term risks of disruption and hiatus Sir David Cooksey, which concluded that too much of will be outweighed by the 50-year, long-term advantages our excellent medical research failed to translate basic of synergy with other HPA sites not very far from and clinical research into ideas and projects and thence Harlow. We do not know how they arrived at that into clinical practice. But that is exactly what happens conclusion because they have refused to allow us to see now at Porton Down—a national benefit that risks the two key documents, their consultants’ reports on being destroyed if CEPR is broken up and sent to the outline business cases and the preferred options Harlow. analysis. I ask the Minister when those documents will I appeal to the board of the Health Protection Agency, be available for public scrutiny. the members of which are all extremely distinguished I put it to the Minister that a number of points are scientists—one has extensive commercial experience in clear, and they do not support the proposed move to the pharmaceutical industry—to ask itself if it really, in Harlow. The main argument of HPA is that Porton its heart of hearts, supports this disruptive and risky Down is a long way from the other sites—the Radiation gamble, which would destroy 94 years of scientific Protection Division and Chemical Hazards and Poisons excellence that is admired and respected all around the Division at Chilton, Oxfordshire; the Centre for Infections world, and which has a great future at Porton Down. at Colindale in London; and the National Institute for I have written to the permanent secretary at the Biological Standards and Controls at Potters Bar. If Department of Health, saying that I am alarmed by the CEPR moved closer to the other three, HPA alleges that haste with which the board is seeking a ministerial over 50 years a synergy would develop that would decision so close to a general election, and asking him outweigh the short-term risks. not to agree to such a request being made to the 921 Porton Down2 MARCH 2010 Porton Down 922

Minister. But if it is, on behalf of my constituents, I ask will formally inform the Department of Health of its her to consider the wider implications for national decision and recommendations in due course. Ministers security as well as the impact on the work force at will then decide whether to approve the recommended Porton Down and the wider community of Salisbury option and pass it to the Treasury Ministers for final and south Wiltshire, before she makes a decision of approval. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that, until such magnitude. the Department receives the outline business case, I am unable to comment on the HPA’s detailed proposals, as 10.18 pm they have not yet been formed in order to come to my The Minister of State, Department of Health (Gillian attention. I shall, however, endeavour to address a Merron): May I first congratulate the hon. Member for number of the hon. Gentleman’s concerns for the safety Salisbury (Robert Key) on securing this debate? I know and security of the nation and for the best interests of him to be a passionate supporter and defender of the his constituents, for whom he rightly speaks up. Health Protection Agency’s facility at Porton Down, its I shall first address the HPA’s emergency response staff and the excellent work that it does, and I look capability. The agency combines public health, scientific forward to meeting him tomorrow to discuss this important knowledge, research and emergency planning expertise matter in greater detail. within a single organisation. There is no reason to As the hon. Gentleman has said, for almost a century predict that its ability to carry out an effective emergency some of our greatest minds worked at Porton Down to response will suffer while the project is being taken protect Britain and her allies during the first world war, forward. On the contrary, one of the objectives of the second world war and the cold war. In the age of Project Chrysalis is significantly to enhance that capability global terrorism, the work carried out there remains as and capacity. Of course, should a move take place, it important today as it ever was. All along, men and will be important to maintain that ability during any women at Porton Down have worked tirelessly in the transition. Emergency response work at Porton Down national interest, and I share his admiration for their would stop only after any replacement facility was up work and add my thanks to his. However, the facility and running and had been properly validated. itself is in urgent need of major attention. As we have I know that the hon. Gentleman is concerned that heard, the majority of the buildings date from the 1950s moving the HPA’s facility from Porton Down—if that and have been repaired and refurbished over the years were to happen—would undermine our science base, on to the point where refurbishment is no longer an option. which so many jobs rely, now and in the future. To Replacement is the way forward. safeguard this, if the facility were to move, any potential I hope that it will help if I give some background to negative effect on the Porton Down area would need to where I feel we have come to. The first thing to say is be more than balanced out by the positive impact of that Health Protection Agency staff deserve buildings any change. That is one of several crucial factors that and equipment befitting their status as scientific world the HPA board and Ministers will consider when reaching leaders. In August 2008, the Department of Health a final decision. It will also be important that any approved the strategic case for Project Chrysalis, authorising potential move does not undermine the HPA’s close the HPA to spend up to £5 million. The agency contributed working relationships with the defence interests on site a further £5 million to this from its central Government and with the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory. grant. Its objective was to create the best possible These are vital issues that the HPA will fully consider as environment for the work of Porton Down to continue. part of the outline business case. Although that work focused on the refurbishment of the Porton Down site, the HPA was not restricted from The hon. Gentleman rightly raised the matter of the looking at other options. Last summer, as part of the United States federal Government. He expressed his agency’s value for money and due diligence work, an concern that any move could in some way damage or alternative site was found for consideration in Harlow, impact on our relations with the United States. The Essex. services that the HPA provides to the US Government, including the development of animal models for several On 12 October, at an all-staff briefing, Mr. Miles diseases, will not be adversely affected, whatever the Carroll, the HPA’s site director at Porton Down, explained final decision. Project Chrysalis is designed to improve the need to explore every option in order to get the best the UK’s long-term security, and in doing so will reinforce possible value for money, which included the possible our relationship with the United States. If we continue option of moving to another site. He informed the staff to have the best facilities and to employ the best people, that a medical research facility at Terlings Park in I have every reason to believe that our relations will Harlow had become available, and that this was being remain excellent. looked at as one of several options. That briefing was followed on the same day by an all-staff online discussion. The hon. Gentleman has raised concerns about the Between October and December 2009, staff were kept security of the laboratories and their staff. I can assure informed by a series of newsletters, bulletins, intranet him and the House that their safety will always be our updates, drop-in sessions and all-staff briefings. The No. 1 priority. The Porton Down site is clearly very HPA’s chief executive, Mr. Justin McCracken, also briefed secure, and if it were to be relocated, the new facilities the national joint staff committee about the Terlings would need to be brought up to at least as high a Park option at a meeting on 3 December. This was not standard. publicly announced as no decisions had been made, but I know that there is also concern about the potential at every stage the HPA has sought to be as open and loss of revenue to the HPA and the Centre for Emergency transparent with its employees as possible. Preparedness and Response, particularly if there were I understand that the outline business case, containing to be any move from Porton Down. Handling the most a number of possible options, was presented to the dangerous pathogens is highly specialised work, and the HPA board on 27 January for its decision. The board income generated by the CEPR is an integral part of 923 Porton Down2 MARCH 2010 Porton Down 924

[Gillian Merron] substantial number of public sector activities from London and the south-east to other parts of the UK. The HPA’s finances. Any move to upgrade the CEPR’s principle of that review would, of course, be an important capabilities, however, is likely to improve this income part of the decision-making process, along with the because of the improvement in facilities. quality of any alternative facility and value for money Naturally and quite understandably, the hon. Gentleman for the taxpayer. is most concerned about the future prospects of his I hope that this initial response has been of some constituents. I reiterate that the outline business case assistance to the hon. Gentleman in clarifying the situation has not been submitted for approval and that no final and setting out the background. I am pleased to say decisions have been taken on its recommendations. The again, as I said at the outset, that I am meeting him HPA employs almost 600 highly valued full and part-time tomorrow in order to discuss all these matters—and, I staff at Porton Down. In the event of a move to a new am sure, others—in far greater detail. I am glad to do facility, the HPA would do everything in its power, as that, not least because I understand the reasons for, and should any responsible public sector employer, to support the depth of, his concerns, which have been clearly and its staff either by helping them and their families to correctly put before the House this evening. move to the area of the new site or to help them to find Question put and agreed to. suitable alternative employment. The hon. Gentleman understandably mentioned Sir 10.27 pm Michael Lyons’s review, which looked at relocating a House adjourned. 179WH 2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 180WH

Fulham, will he also give some credence to the campaign Westminster Hall being run by the Evening Standard, which somewhat worryingly refers to the lack of activity in this and Tuesday 2 March 2010 related areas of poverty over the past decade or more in London and in the UK as a whole?

[MRS.JOAN HUMBLE in the Chair] Mr. Slaughter: I welcome the campaign being run by the Standard, and I hope that is in the tradition of Housing (London) crusading social journalism, which is sometimes absent from the modern press. If my comments become parochial Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting or partisan, I will put them in a wider context. What is be now adjourned.—(Mr. Watts.) happening in Hammersmith and Fulham is not simply an issue for my constituents and those who wish to live 9.30 am in affordable housing in the borough, but it is the Mr. Andy Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s blueprint for what many other boroughs—and, indeed, Bush) (Lab): I rise to begin this important debate in the the Mayor—are now doing. hope that a Minister will join us shortly. Nevertheless, given the importance of the issue, I shall begin and keep Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Highgate) (Lab): I my comments as brief as possible to allow my hon. have no qualms whatever in making this political. What Friends and other hon. Members, who have a greater is happening in Hammersmith and Fulham is being knowledge of the subject than me, to contribute. I will replicated across the whole of London, not least in my be grateful not only for their contributions, but for their own borough of Camden, and it seems to me that the interventions. policies are those of the Conservative party. If they are As this is a broad subject, I will give some structure to allowed to run, the damage wreaked on some of the my contribution by confining myself to the leading most vulnerable people in our city, not least children, issue. I say to the Minister, who is now in his place, that will be astronomical. he has not missed a great deal because I have been introducing the subject gently. Mr. Slaughter: I am grateful for that comment, because The issue to which I wish to confine most of my it puts our discussion into context. I will try to be comments is affordability. In saying that it is the key moderate in my tone and precise in my comments issue for housing in London, I do not mean to suggest because, at the end of the day, those in housing need or that there are not other serious matters that need to be in social housing—either council or housing association debated. My hon. Friend the Member for Islington, housing—are interested not in party political squabbles, North (Jeremy Corbyn), for example, has a debate on but in having a secure and decent home for the future. the private rented sector in this Chamber later in the There is a political divide and it is important that we week. Moreover, there are issues related to owner- identify it, but we must do so in forensic rather than occupation. In particular, there are the problems that emotive terms. owner-occupiers may face during a recession and the I will briefly run through the statistics, which are steps that the Government have taken to alleviate them, probably familiar to many of us. We have 45,000 households with the consequence that repossessions are running at in temporary accommodation in London, which is 75 per about 50 per cent. of those in previous recessions. cent. of the national total. Despite concerted attempts—in Those are all important topics, but given the social some cases, quite unseemly attempts—by councils to and economic position of London and, in anecdotal discourage people from going on to the waiting list and terms, the case load in my surgery and in my postbag—I to prevent people from getting access even to the queue suspect that the same is true for many other hon. for social housing, some 350,000 people are on that Members here—the issue of access to housing and waiting list. London has a third of the overcrowded affordability is chronic in London, and also acute in households in the country.Some 25 per cent. of households that we now have a crisis. in Hammersmith and Fulham live in overcrowded conditions. I will say a bit about the scale of the problem and a bit about the Government’s response. However, the As for affordability, on the latest figures, private majority of my remarks will focus on the policy of the sector rents on average are £207 for London, compared Mayor and the boroughs in London, which is going to with £81 for registered social landlords and £76 for local give serious cause for concern. Such a policy is not authorities. That factor in boroughs such as Hammersmith alleviating the current problems of affordability, but and Fulham, which has high land values, rises to a ratio worsening the situation. I will end my contribution with of 1:4 between social rents and private sector rents. The two specific questions for the Minister. average price for house purchase in London is £315,000. In Hammersmith, the price went down between mid-2008 Mr. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) and mid-2009 from £570,000 to £480,000. It is now (Con): I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman’s contribution rising again and is almost certainly above £500,000. will tend to be fairly parochial—the same will be true of That means that the ratio between average earnings mine, if I am lucky enough to catch your eye, and the average house price for London is a factor of Mrs. Humble—but will he accept that there is a danger eight, and for Hammersmith and Fulham a factor of of perhaps being slightly over-partisan, although that 12. Some 40 per cent. of households in Hammersmith does not necessarily come entirely easily to his nature? and Fulham have a household income of £20,000 or In commenting on the record of the Mayor, and no less. A third of households in London have an income doubt that of the administration in Hammersmith and of £30,000 or less. I identified those figures from the 181WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 182WH

[Mr. Slaughter] Mr. Slaughter: The hon. Gentleman is the acceptable face of the Conservative party in London, but on this many statistics that are available because they show issue I have to say that I disagree with him absolutely. that, for many people and the vast majority of people in First, as the figures that I gave earlier show, it is possible housing need, social rented housing is the only option to develop high levels of affordable housing. Secondly, in London. That is not necessarily true in other parts of if there were consensus between the major parties on the country. providing for people in housing need, as there would I welcome genuine low-cost home ownership when it have been 30 or 40 years ago, developers would not have is accessible to people on moderate incomes or is a way the option of waiting for a change in administration or for people in existing social rented housing to get into a policy. I always found that developers were persuadable form of ownership, thereby freeing up other units. and that they would rather have a profit now than the Increasingly and cynically, it is not being used in such a possibility of a larger profit in the future. way. The overwhelming demand is for social rented Hammersmith and Fulham council is a very good housing. example—in the past, Wandsworth council would have The previous Mayor had a target of 50 per cent. been a very good example, too—in that it has set out its affordable housing. Within that, 70 per cent.—35 per stall as being “open for business”. What that means is cent. of the total—was to be social rented housing. allowing unrestrained development—essentially, saying When Labour was last in charge in Hammersmith and to developers, “Come here and you can do what you Fulham four years ago, those figures were running at want,” and beyond that, saying, “Actually, you can only 40 per cent. social rented, 40 per cent. intermediate and do what you want if you also do what we want, and 20 per cent. market housing on good figures for new what we want is not to increase but to reduce the build, which shows that with a lot of application it is amount of social housing.” I will say a little more about possible, even in boroughs with high land values, to that in a moment. achieve very good levels of affordable social housing I will be gently critical of the Government and say and rented housing. that I do not believe that, in the first 10 years of the The Greater London authority’s own figures show Labour Administration, the provision of new social that the target of 18,000 affordable homes a year should, housing had the same priority as the renewal of existing if we are to meet current need, break down such that housing stock under the decent homes programme. 45 per cent. of that is social rented. Against that need, That is understandable because the decent homes the Mayor’s response has been, first, to abolish targets; programme was dealing with existing tenants and secondly, to have a shortfall of 5,000 properties on that leaseholders, because of the scale of the neglect during target of 18,000; and, thirdly and most bizarrely, to the previous 18 years, and because there are regional raise the threshold for affordability to an income of differences. This debate is about London, however, where £74,000 a year. I do not know by what definition that the problems of affordability and access to housing are threshold is affordable. greater. I am pleased to say that, with the change of Prime rose— Mr. Mark Field Minister, we had a change of policy towards housing Mr. Slaughter: I do not know whether the hon. supply, so I give credit to the Government for the Gentleman is going to say that he would like to bid for £7.5 billion that they are now putting into affordable one of those homes; he is probably in the right income housing; the £300 million being put into new council bracket. housing, which is very welcome; the £500 million being put into the Kickstart programme, although there are Mr. Field: The hon. Gentleman may well be right concerns about quality in that programme; and the about the income level. I fully appreciate his passion for £1 billion going into housing via RSLs and the housing this subject and I would agree that, in many ways, we pledge. Those are all very positive developments. They have an absurd situation. It is particularly absurd, obviously, are only the start, but they give me confidence that a given the polarisation here in London. However, does new Labour Government would open a new chapter in he not accept that the erstwhile Mayor’s targets were the supply of housing and affordable housing in this providing some very perverse incentives for developers, country. Given what the polls are saying to us, perhaps who were just sitting on their hands waiting for a that is something that we can now look forward to. change in administration or a change in policy? There has been an ideological problem. If one goes I fully accept that the current situation is a very back to the 1945 Government and later Governments, undesirable state of affairs. None the less, the erstwhile including even some Conservative Governments, social Mayor’s targets simply were not working, which is why housing would have been given the same priority in the current Mayor decided to do away with such targets. terms of improving people’s quality of life as health and One of the problems, particularly in central London education. Clearly, however, it has slipped down the boroughs, was that, in essence, so little was being built, agenda. I hope that it is now being put back where it simply because those targets were unrealistic, given the should be. market conditions. Social housing is not only about the right to a decent I can understand the frustration that the hon. Gentleman home, which the Government have done an extraordinarily has experienced over many years, both in this place and good job on, or about how people live; it is about where wearing a previous hat. None the less, having strict they live. In Hammersmith and Fulham, 32 per cent. of targets simply was not achieving anything, which is the households are in social housing—either council housing main reason why we have gone for a much more flexible or rented social housing—and that is in an area with the approach that will, I hope, pay certain dividends in the third highest land values in the country. I am very years to come. proud of that. I am very proud because it means that, 183WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 184WH economically, the city works; it means that people on created the mixed communities in Hammersmith is low and moderate incomes who do essential jobs can what are called the “acquired properties”. If one walks have decent accommodation in the centre of the city; down any Victorian terraced street in Shepherd’s Bush and it means that we have mixed communities. The or Hammersmith, one will probably go past three or great lie now being promulgated by the Conservative four houses and the first will be a housing association party is that getting rid of social housing encourages property, the second will be a private rented property, mixed communities, but the social housing in my the third will be a council house and the fourth may be constituency houses mixed communities—mixed in terms in owner occupation. One could not create that paradigm of tenure, people and income. That job is being done by if one set out to do so, but that is what exists and I the market, as well as by people choosing where to live, believe that it is now under threat. if they have that choice. I do not want to put a gloss on that situation. There Sarah Teather (Brent, East) (LD): I thank the hon. are big problems of poverty and disrepair and there are Gentleman for giving way, but I really must respond to poor landlords, many of whom are RSLs and local the point made by the right hon. Member for Holborn authorities. At least 50 per cent. of my casework in and St. Pancras (Frank Dobson). The right hon. Gentleman surgeries relates to housing—mainly problems of knows full well that the reason why Camden council has overcrowding, disrepair and the like—but when I deal had to sell off properties is because his Government will with that work, I always ask people if they like living not fund the council to do up the homes that are still the where they are living. I do not think that one person in responsibility of the council. If the Government were five years has said to me, “I don’t like living in Shepherd’s prepared to honour the promise to provide decent homes Bush,” or “I don’t like living in Hammersmith.” People for tenants in Camden, Camden council would not be want to live in vibrant inner-city areas; they like the fact in the position of having to sell off homes to fund that that communities in those areas are mixed communities. promise. I fear that the effect of Conservative party policy in London is to create exactly what the Conservatives say Mr. Slaughter: My flow is being interrupted so I will they are not trying to create: mono-tenure, wealthy let other hon. Members make their points in their own ghettos of the sort that we see in some other European time. cities, from which the poor are driven out to the outskirts My right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and of London or to beyond the M25. My local council St. Pancras (Frank Dobson) is exactly right. If the aim leader’s favourite phrase is, “Sweat the asset.” He has a is to destroy affordability in housing, there is a raft of genuine resentment of people on low incomes living in ways to do it. I wish I had an hour to catalogue the areas with high land values. That is what that policy is crimes, but I will try to end in 10 minutes. about; it is about a raw type of capitalist, Thatcherite policy, which we have not seen in London for a generation. Hammersmith and Fulham council has disposed of 13 homeless hostels, which constitute about 60 good-quality Frank Dobson (Holborn and St. Pancras) (Lab): In self-contained units of accommodation. Homeless families Camden—the borough that I jointly represent with my will now go into privately leased properties outside the hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead and Highgate borough, which will cost the taxpayer five times as (Glenda Jackson)—the Conservative council is selling much and destroy communities—but the council has a off flats and houses that become vacant. I must say that capital receipt that it can use to pay down debt. The it is doing so with the enthusiastic support of the council has sold by auction a number of the acquired Liberal Democrats, with whom the Conservatives are in properties that I mentioned. It has even gone to the coalition in Camden. The council is doing that despite extent of giving itself planning consent to convert large the fact that there are 18,000 people on the housing Victorian properties that have been divided into five waiting list. To reduce the stock that is available is a units into single residential units, which can be sold for bizarre response to a waiting list of 18,000. a couple of million pounds on the open market, so it is I take that personally because when I was the leader not even catering for the intermediate market, as it says of Camden council, we bought up 6,000 properties it is. In addition, because it is selling by auction in a from the private sector, so that we could give people recession, it is getting a return of about 25 per cent. less security of tenure and take other people off the waiting than the taxpayer should get. list and put them into the vacant flats. If some people think that being in social housing is unpopular, all I can Jeremy Corbyn: I congratulate my hon. Friend on say is that during the time that I was council leader I did securing this debate and apologise for missing the first not receive one single communication, by any means, part of his speech. Does he acknowledge that by selling from anyone saying that they did not want to become a off properties and forcing people into the private sector, council tenant— where rents are very high, the burden is being passed on Mrs. Joan Humble (in the Chair): Order. I have to to the taxpayer through housing benefit? Housing benefit interrupt the right hon. Gentleman, whose intervention costs for private rented accommodation are roughly has turned into a speech. I am sure that his hon. Friend three or four times those for rents in the council and understands the point that he is making. housing association sector. That is a monstrous waste of public money. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): It was a very good speech. Mr. Slaughter: Absolutely. I will run through six ways Mr. Slaughter: It was indeed. My right hon. Friend is in which affordable housing is being damaged in right to draw attention to his own creditable record on Hammersmith. Each of the examples is echoed across housing, because exactly the same thing was done in London and each one, as well as the social cost, usually Hammersmith in the 1960s and 1970s. What partly has an economic cost for the taxpayer. 185WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 186WH

[Mr. Slaughter] policy to remove Labour voters from an area, as Shirley Porter did, and to allow the unrestrained development The first is disposal. The second is demolition, which of an area without any regard for the residents who are is under way on several small estates. The third is losing their homes or those who continue to live there—a handing back units: 250 newly built social housing policy the central objective of which is to reduce the units, of which 191 were socially rented units, have been quantum of affordable social housing, so that people handed back to a developer; the reason given was that on low and moderate incomes can no longer live in an there was no demand for them. The fourth is not area. That is happening in Hammersmith and Fulham bidding for available Government funds, whether for and, no doubt, in Wandsworth. The hon. Lady represents new council housing or through the Homes and a constituency in a borough that pioneered such policies Communities Agency to assist RSLs to build. Not a 20 years ago. All Hammersmith is doing is copying the penny has been bid for—indeed, money has been sent techniques used by Westminster and Wandsworth in the back. 1980s. She should apologise for what her party is doing, The fifth way in which affordable housing is being rather than make fatuous points. damaged in Hammersmith is by allowing planning Ms Karen Buck (Regent’s Park and Kensington, North) applications for schemes that include no affordable (Lab): We are discussing housing in London, where housing. Developers who already have planning consent there has been an excess of demand over supply for as that involves an amount of affordable housing are long as I can remember. The proportions are now cynically going back to the Conservative council saying, critical. When the pathfinder projects started, they were “Look old chap, things are a bit tight at the moment. dealing with the problem of excess supply. Many areas Would you mind if we built that thing without any were blighted with huge numbers of homes that could affordable housing after all?” The council replies, “No, not be rented or sold. Although circumstances changed no, we understand. Go ahead and do that.” I want the quickly, the pathfinder policy was a rational response to Minister to think about that, because it goes outside the a totally different problem from the one faced in the guidelines of the Department for Communities and capital. Local Government. If local authorities are giving permissions on the basis of the alleged economic hardship Mr. Slaughter: As always, I am grateful to my hon. of developers and thereby eliminating affordable housing, Friend because she has more patience than I. Perhaps the Government should take an interest. The sixth way she would like to put on a seminar for the Conservative is through the definition of affordability, which I have Front-Bench spokesman, so that the hon. Lady can mentioned in the context of the Mayor. Deep cynicism learn about housing policy. is displayed in the fact that what is called affordable is The second thing happening in Hammersmith and not affordable in practice to any of my constituents in Fulham is that the estates being demolished are picked housing need. That is true of every unit that is so not because they are in disrepair or because of over-supply, classified, and very few of those have been given consent but for no other reason than that they sit on valuable over the past four years. plots of land next to existing development sites. Many Those measures would be enough to reverse the good of the developers I have spoken to say that they do not work done in the past to maintain and improve the want to do it—they do not want the bad reputation or quantum of affordable housing, but two further things the political flak, and they do not want to negotiate are happening in Hammersmith and Fulham that have with several hundred council leaseholders, or get immersed implications for the whole of London and beyond. in the successful campaigns that tenants run to retain First, there is an extensive programme of estate demolition their estates. However, the price demanded by a council, that could reduce council housing stock by up to which is both the landlord and the local authority, for 5,000 units—a third of total stock—if all the schemes developers to do what they want is that they destroy that have been mooted go ahead in the next few years. people’s homes and lives. That is unprecedented. Eight estates, ranging in size from 100 to 2,000 units, are Hammersmith and Fulham is an extreme case, but it is named in the local development framework for wholesale spreading to Westminster and Kensington and affecting redevelopment. Two other schemes that were mooted what the Mayor of London does. have not been concluded only, I believe, because the If there was any light at the end of the tunnel, one developers approached by the council do not wish to go would say that this cannot go on for ever—people have ahead at present. That shows what a topsy-turvy world to live somewhere and the state and local authorities we are in. The local authority is approaching developers have a responsibility to people in housing need. However, saying, “We will give you planning consent to do exactly one should read the policy platform of Conservatives what you want—triple the density, build commercial such as the leader of Hammersmith and Fulham council developments—provided you do what we want, which and his acolytes, which was famously discussed about a is to demolish any affordable housing near the site.” year ago at a secret meeting, the details of which I Justine Greening (Putney) (Con): Will the hon. obtained under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Gentleman comment on the Government’s pathfinder They plan to go beyond the destruction of large numbers policy under which 16,000 homes in the north have been of individual homes. They plan to end what they would demolished and fewer than 4,000 built to replace them? call the socialisation of housing and to achieve the Does he think that was a good idea? withdrawal of the state from the housing market. There would be no security of tenure; the only form of tenure Mr. Slaughter: I always fear giving way to the hon. would be assured shorthold. Rents would rise by up to Lady because her interventions are so off-beam that she 400 per cent. to market levels, which would have implications insults the debate. There is nothing wrong with regeneration for housing benefit bills in the short term. Capital or rebuilding; I am talking about something very different. investment in social housing would end. There would be I am talking about a deliberate political and economic an end to the local authority’s duty to the homeless. 187WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 188WH

That is not fantasy. It is spelt out in a document I understand why that meeting was kept secret: it is called “Principles for Social Housing Reform” ostensibly because those involved were plotting against the poor. written by the leader of Hammersmith and Fulham It was exposed in the Evening Standard last year, and council—he is an important figure in Conservative local that is exactly what is happening. government and is head of the innovation unit—and The Conservative party had the opportunity to dissociate put forward to the Conservative housing spokesman, itself from that meeting last July, when my right hon. the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), Friend the Minister for Housing wrote to the right hon. and the chairman of the Conservative party, the hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) asking him whether Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. Pickles), as an he would dissociate himself from this and deny it. My example of what a Conservative Government could do. right hon. Friend has written twice more and has not One can see how attractive the destruction of social had a response. We can take that degree of silence as housing would be. The policy is to retain less than consent to the extreme policies that are being pursued 10 per cent. of stock for those who have physical or in not just Hammersmith and other boroughs, but mental disabilities and are unable to go out into the London as a whole. That is the blueprint for the market and find their own properties. Conservative’s policy on the 4 million social homes and the 8 million people who live in social housing in this Mr. Mark Field: The hon. Gentleman will recognise country. that the meeting cannot have been that secret if he was able to obtain the minutes under freedom of information I will end with two questions for my hon. Friend the legislation. The document to which he refers is a broad Minister. I understand that, because he has planning discussion paper on a range of issues. Does he not responsibilities, he cannot comment on individual schemes accept that a key area that is ripe for reform is the idea and programmes of regeneration, but will he at least that security of tenure of a council property can be give an undertaking that a Labour Government will passed down to the next generation? It seems incredible, protect and defend the rights of social tenants—their not only to those living in social housing but, more security and their rents? Will he ensure that the quality importantly, to those who are not able to qualify for and quantity of social housing is not destroyed as the social housing, that tenure can be passed down through Conservative party wish it to be, but that it is increased? the generations in the way that the current legislation Unfortunately, in some cases now, we are unable to allows. offer that protection in Hammersmith and Fulham, so tenants such as those on the West Kensington and Mr. Slaughter: No, I do not agree with that. I agree Gibbs Green estates have organised to make use of that under-occupation, as it is called, can be addressed legislation such as the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 in a number of ways, but I do not believe that council to take over not just the management but the ownership tenants and housing association tenants should be treated of their homes. Will the Government introduce the as second-class citizens in the housing market. I am regulations, which have not yet been published, under afraid that is what the hon. Gentleman’s party is proposing. that Act that tenants need to take control of their lives? A mixed community of people who love their homes Ms Buck: On that point and the principle at stake, is and the place where they live are threatened with the it not the case that if a tenant inherits tenancy—apart destruction of their lives by a greedy developer and an from perhaps a wife inheriting her husband’s tenancy—that unscrupulous council. The remedy is there—it has been tenancy is conditional upon that person moving to a provided for them by the Government, with some property appropriate to their household’s size? It is foresight—but they need that final step to be taken. If important that we do not fall into the trap of assuming that is done, they can take control, as other tenants have that three and four-bedroom houses pass down through in the past, of their own lives and estates. I am sure they the generations, even for households that no longer will do a much better job than the appalling one that warrant them. their Conservative council is doing at the moment. Mr. Slaughter: That is an excellent point. Briefly, I Several hon. Members rose— shall make three further points—I would like to go on longer, but I will not. First, despite the measured tone Mrs. Joan Humble (in the Chair): Order. Clearly, that we have heard from the Conservative Members several hon. Members wish to speak. I hope to call today—although, of course, that may change—let me Front-Bench spokespersons at 10.30 am, so if hon. remind the House of what was said in the meeting I Members can limit their contributions, I will try to get referred to. To give just a few of the many famous everyone in. quotes about social housing from that meeting: “Knock it down and start again.” 10.6 am “It’s hard to get rid of”. Mr. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) “Social rented housing was seen as a dead end rather than an (Con): I will try to do so, Mrs. Humble. I congratulate opportunity to progress”. the hon. Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s “Only a very few people need some physical form of social Bush (Mr. Slaughter) on initiating the debate. As he will housing...possibly less than 10% of national stock.” know, I have raised my general concerns regarding “What is a poor person?” housing provision in the capital a number of times over “Define what social housing is for – not about giving somebody the past year in the House. However, I would be grateful a £1m home for life”. if you allowed me to take a slightly more parochial “We need to deal with the level of political risk. Not just approach on this occasion, Mrs. Humble. people living in White City will vote against you, concerned An important local issue has been brought to my citizens elsewhere will do so”. attention, which I wish to raise with the Minister with “Funding is needed for the political problem of management.” some urgency. I should add that the matter has profound 189WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 190WH

[Mr. Mark Field] of social housing, the Crown Estate has not been able to benefit from the economies of scale in the same way consequences for the right hon. Member for Holborn that London’s larger housing associations can. and St. Pancras (Frank Dobson) and the Under-Secretary The Crown Estate also feels that the returns from of State for the Home Department, the hon. Member that stock over the medium to long term do not fit with for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier). A its broader financial obligations. Mr. Clark explained couple of weeks ago, a member of House of Commons that anyone who rented or bought their property under staff spoke to me personally about the future of the certain contractual arrangements will have those rights Millbank estate in my constituency of Pimlico, in which carried over. Those whose rents are set under the terms he has lived for many years. The freeholds of Millbank of the Rent Act 1977 will continue to have their rents set are owned by the Crown Estate, whose Housing Business by a rent officer, and assured tenants will continue to Group provides about 1,300 homes in London as a have full security of tenure and their rents will remain whole. Having recently completed a review of its residential subject to a rental ceiling. housing portfolio, the Crown Estate has decided to Mr. Clark told me that he feels that the Crown Estate consult on the sale of its central London freehold will only do a deal with a potential owner if a housing ownership. association is involved and, preferably, takes on an The Housing Business Group was historically set up equity stake. He assured me at the meeting that the to provide decent homes at an affordable rent in central Crown Estate is going to great lengths to make any sale London, which allows working Londoners to stand on as smooth as possible for residents and, in doing so, is their own two feet without state reliance. For that likely to penalise itself financially. Evidently, it is looking reason, Millbank houses a significant number of my for potential new owners who have a long-term perspective constituency’s key workers—for example, nurses, teachers, on the sale. bus drivers and, indeed, a number of parliamentary I want to touch on several of the deep local concerns staff. A local vicar, the Rev. Philip Welsh of St. Stephen’s that remain. We will have a reprise of the matter in a Rochester Row, has said that little over 48 hours’ time when the right hon. Member “the current provision of affordable housing for key workers by for Holborn and St. Pancras will discuss it in the main the Crown Estate is a major contribution to social wellbeing, in Chamber, so I hope that the Minister will recognise that maintaining a diverse and lovely local community in this part of we are trying to work together across the political central London, among them many long-established local families who give the place a sense of roots”. divide to represent the interests of our residents and that there is a strong feeling about the matter, which The looming fear is that following any sale, rents will requires resolution. inevitably increase. That will push many residents out of The chairman of the Millbank residents association, their homes and destroy the strong community that has Professor Ben Bowling, told me that many residents grown up on Millbank. I accept that that applies equally believe that the consultation period, which will finish to the estates in the constituency of the right hon. before the end of the month, is little more than a sham. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras and other seats. He feels, as do many residents, that the decision on I raise the issue today because although responsibility whether to sell has already been made. He rejects the for the management of the estate rests with the Crown notion that the Crown Estate has no explicit management Estate’s board, the organisation is formally accountable expertise, given that it has successfully provided residential to Parliament, and the Treasury is effectively the principal accommodation for nearly a century.Indeed, until recently, Government stakeholder. Indeed, the Treasury is kept most tenants have had good relations with the landlord, informed of the Estate’s business plans and strategies. a point to which I can testify, given the absolute dearth Although the property is, of course, officially owned by of complaints I have received about them in the nine Her Majesty, the Crown Estate’s profits—some years I have been a Member. It has been stated that the £227 million—are paid directly to the Treasury. provision of affordable housing is part of the Crown Only a couple of weeks ago, the chief executive of the Estate’s core values of integrity, stewardship and Crown Estate, Roger Bright, came before the Treasury sustainability. Select Committee to be questioned about the value that There is deep disappointment that the decision to sell the Estate delivers to the taxpayer. Mr. Bright has the residential estate seems to be driven entirely by recently had to deal with some hefty challenges, namely financial considerations, with the importance of community the £1 billion that has been wiped off the value of the and the duty to hard-working Londoners being cast Estate’s portfolio in the last tax year following the aside. The residents’ suspicions, I fear, have been aroused recession. It is thought that the sale of Millbank and its by Mr. Clark’s history as the person who presided over sister estates could raise up to £250 million. Many the Church Commissioners’ sale of their affordable residents believe it is rather curious that the Crown housing only a few years ago. In that case, despite prior Estate is proposing to sell Millbank at a time when assurances that a focused housing provider would provide property prices are well below their peak, but when the benefits for tenants, rents rose astronomically after the Treasury’s cupboard is relatively bare. sale, the key worker scheme ended and flats were then Following the discussion with my constituent in the sold off. House of Commons, I arranged to meet Paul Clark, the The proposals are causing real concern among the Crown Estate’s director of investment and asset excellent team of local Westminster councillors, including management, to learn more about the Estate’s plans. Danny Chalkley and Steve Summers of Vincent Square Mr. Clark was keen to emphasise that no decisions have ward and Angela Harvey, Nick Evans and Alan Bradley yet been made on the sale, but said that because of a of Tachbrook ward. They, along with local activist, lack of explicit management expertise in the provision David Harvey, are united in opposing the sale of the estate, and I am sure that the hon. Member for Regent’s 191WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 192WH

Park and Kensington, North (Ms Buck) will share 10.16 am those sentiments. They fear the damage that might be done to a cohesive local community and the uncertainty Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): It is a pleasure to take and distress being inflicted on individual residents. Until part in the debate under your chairmanship, Mrs. Humble. now the Crown Estate has been regarded as a highly I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, valued landlord for its residents, but councillors and Acton and Shepherd’s Bush (Mr. Slaughter) on securing other local people are distressed that it is giving such a this important debate. To allow other Members to short consultation period when the uncertainty surrounding speak, I will curtail my comments and not give them the the decision will profoundly affect many people’s lives benefit of my full contribution. and homes. Local people are demanding some confirmation My hon. Friend said that he welcomes the change in that no decision has been taken, as they believe that the the Government’s approach to social housing, as do I. Crown Estate is being pressed to sell the homes by the Some of us have been campaigning on the need to get Treasury in a desperate attempt to raise money. I have local authorities building houses again for a long time. now received a significant number of letters and e-mails The fact that we are investing £300 million in building from desperately worried constituents. council housing again and starting the biggest building programme for 20 years is extremely welcome. The Frank Dobson: I think that the hon. Gentleman would economic downturn and its impact on the housing agree that everyone was suspicious that the Treasury market make social housing even more important for was behind that in some way, but will he not confirm many of our constituents. When I talk to people in my that the minutes obtained from the Crown Estate through constituency, or to those in some of the larger houses the freedom of information request show that it has who are now home owners, I find that the vast majority never even informed the Treasury of its intentions? of them started out in social rented accommodation when they were young, either as family members or as Mr. Field: There have been too many references to tenants themselves, so the idea that being in socially secret minutes obtained through FOI requests, but I rented accommodation is a dead end and is somehow a take on board the right hon. Gentleman’s point. I have barrack of the poor, as it is referred to in some Conservative heard from many concerned residents. Eileen Terry, a quarters, is completely wrong. Crown Estate tenant since 1979, recently retired and is The housing market has changed and we will no now on a fixed income, so large rent rises would force longer see 100 per cent. mortgages, or even 125 per cent. her to find another home. Angela Reape and her husband mortgages, on the value of properties, so it will be even both work as nurses for the local NHS trust and so are more essential that we have affordable rented vital key workers in the vicinity. Their three children, accommodation for people to live in while they are who were all born in the flat, attend local schools and saving the deposit that they will need to buy a house, the family has always said that it feels part of a close-knit which will take a considerable time in this housing community. They fear that their nurses’ salaries will not market. cover the rent for a home big enough for their children There is no lack of ambition to be a home owner and in Pimlico. Vincent Minney’s family have lived in Crown to make that choice; the issue is about choosing whether Estate property since 1945. His brother lives around the to remain a tenant or move on. That opportunity corner from him and he would not be able to afford should be there for future generations, and I think that market rents in the community in which he has lived all all parties have failed in that endeavour in the past, so I his life. As he says, am delighted that that has changed. The Prime Minister “not everything can be measured in pounds, shillings and pence”. has clearly indicated that he wants more social housing I started school in 1970, so I am as young as one can be and has put the money in to make that happen. It is to remember what that means—my hon. Friend the essential that that continues. Member for Putney (Justine Greening) is entirely oblivious We have seen the documents from Hammersmith and to the notion of there being 240 pence in a pound. Fulham council, and I will focus on that issue briefly to Perhaps we would all rather like that now, as it might allow other Members to speak. We have been highlighting make the financial situation rather easier. to council tenants in my constituency the threat that the document from Localis poses. It would take away secure Mr. Slaughter: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? tenancies and move rents to market levels. Tenants are extremely alarmed by that policy. Mr. Field: The hon. Gentleman must forgive me, as I I draw attention to the two letters from the Minister was just coming to the close of my speech. for Housing, who wrote to the Leader of the Opposition, What I have said chimes with a recurrent theme in the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron), in other speeches I have made in the House on social July and again in September, asking him to distance housing. Too often social housing goes to people who himself from the policy and to state that it is not have no real connection with an area, and I should hate national Conservative party policy. The only response that to happen in Millbank. I call on the Government to that we have had from him so far came during a visit to look at the proposed sale as a matter of urgency. Hammersmith and Fulham on 5 January, when he Alongside hard-working local councillors, I am joining stated: cross-party efforts to look at the matter. I know that the “I believe in strong local government. It’s not my job to run right hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras is Hammersmith and Fulham but when I look at this borough I’m deeply committed and is doing fantastically effective very proud of what they have done.” work in his constituency, and the same applies to the That is the only response to a challenge to distance hon. Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch. I himself from a policy that says to 8 million tenants up hope that we can all work together to ensure that the and down the country that they face market rents and residents’ voices are properly heard on that matter. losing their secure tenancies. 193WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 194WH

[Clive Efford] homes at affordable rents in places such as Maida Vale and, indeed, Millbank. Therefore, it is deeply disappointing During a debate last week in the Greenwich council that properties formerly held by the Church Commissioners chamber, Tory councillors challenged the Labour party are now being sold and let at market rents that are way on scaremongering in respect of council tenants, yet all out of the reach of the people and families who lived in they were able to say was, “This is not the policy of them when they were held by the commissioners. The Greenwich Conservatives.” They were not able to say mixed tenure that was in Maida Vale has been eroded. that the policy is not national Conservative party policy. It is completely extraordinary that people who seriously We have a group of Conservatives in Greenwich who advocate mixed tenure on our large housing estates, are distancing themselves from their national party and which is something that we would all support, cannot their leader because they are so embarrassed by the apply the same logic to the wards or even the boroughs policy. that are grossly under-provisioned with affordable housing In Greenwich, tenants have the third lowest rents in for rent, whether they are the outer London boroughs London—the average is around £80—but they would that failed to provide social housing, even when the nearly triple to £225 if we were to impose market-level previous Mayor was encouraging them to do so—they rents. It is not some maverick group of Conservatives are certainly failing to do so now—or more local areas. that has come up with the policies, but the leader of the As my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Acton Conservatives’ innovation unit. The document was drawn and Shepherd’s Bush said, I am not at all uncritical of up following a meeting at which virtually every leading this Government’s housing policy. I applaud the decent exponent of housing policy for the Tories was present. homes initiative and the investment that went into it. The leader of the Conservatives has failed to distance Tens of thousands of tenants are grateful for the new himself from it and to deny that it is Conservative party kitchens and bathrooms and general upgrades to their policy. accommodation, but we came too late to the issue of On behalf of the tenants in my borough, I want to supply. It was only in the early years of the former hear from the Minister today that they will have secure Mayor’s leadership of London that we really began to tenancies under a future Labour Government, that we turn around the supply in London, and that is carrying will not go down the path of the folly of moving through because of the investment that was made in the towards market rents and impoverishing 8 million tenants early years of the current Mayor. We will have to see up and down the country, and that we will make that a what happens in future. policy in the next general election and that tenants will We have failed to update the definition of overcrowding, hear it loud and clear. we have failed to put overcrowded housing at the centre of housing policy, despite its critical importance, and 10.22 am we have failed to uphold the code of practice on placing homeless households with a local connection in the Ms Karen Buck (Regent’s Park and Kensington, North) local area. That has caused enormous distress to families (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for with long connections to Westminster who are commuting Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s Bush (Mr. Slaughter) on from east London and bringing their children into securing this debate and on an excellent and wide-ranging school every day because the local connection was speech. I also congratulate my Westminster colleague, overridden. the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster However, as my hon. Friends the Members for Ealing, (Mr. Field). In many ways, he made the same speech Acton and Shepherd’s Bush and for Eltham said, that is and, despite his earlier intervention about security of as nothing compared with, in some cases, lazy thinking tenure, his contribution, which I substantially agreed on the part of some housing professionals, and, in other with, echoed exactly the themes that were drawn out by cases, poisonous ideological thinking that has emerged my hon. Friends the Members for Ealing, Acton and from some of the think-tanks and local authorities Shepherd’s Bush and for Eltham (Clive Efford), who around issues such as ending security of tenure. It is stressed the importance of maintaining affordable, decent easy to say that there is not enough social housing to go social housing in all areas of London, and how such around and that one of the ways to deal with that is to accommodation can sustain and maintain communities end secured tenure to try to make stock available. Similarly, and, of course, underpin the economy by enabling a parallel position emerged in a Westminster council people to live and work in central London. document on overcrowding in London, which called for The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster legislation to end the duty of local authorities in respect and others were absolutely right to raise concerns about of homelessness so that homeless households can be the Crown Estate and the way in which it is proceeding. discharged into the private rented sector. Both those I and other colleagues who may not be present have parallel policies fail to deal with some important related similar concerns about the behaviour of the Church points. Commissioners. When they sold their estates a few Where do people in housing need with low incomes years ago, they sold an estate in Maida Vale—Dibdin go? By definition, they cannot afford to pay or to buy; House—to a housing association that was partnered otherwise, they would not be in their position. Of the with a private development company. Maida Vale, which two catastrophes coming down the line, the first is cost, is a ward in Westminster that is generally fairly prosperous, which has been mentioned. If homeless people are has some social housing. moved into the private rented sector—they are already I took the view then, and still hold it, that if we are being diverted by the Government’s homelessness strategy, serious about maintaining mixed tenure in all areas, and which is an error that would be even more deeply if we do not want our social housing to be solely and ingrained by the policy in question—the public purse exclusively concentrated in poor areas, we need to maintain would have to pay for properties costing £400, £500, 195WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 196WH

£600 or £700 a week when in some cases the property Among those who attended were David Cowans, the next door in a council block would be rented for £100 a chief executive of Places for People, Anu Vedi, the chief week by someone with security of tenure. The cost executive of Genesis, and Kate Davies, the chief executive would be burdensome at a time when, strangely, people of Notting Hill Housing—three large associations operating will be looking at the housing benefit budget for cuts. probably in the hon. Lady’s constituency as well as Those two things cannot be squared. mine. Frankly, these people should be ashamed of what However, even more worrying is the sheer damage they are doing to housing in London. They are all now that is done to families who are left to fend for themselves advisers to the Tory party on exactly the policies that in the private rented sector. It is worth reminding ourselves have been denounced in this debate. The housing association that housing associations began precisely as a response movement should remember what it is there for. to the failure of the private rented sector to provide affordable, decent accommodation. It is sad that a few Sarah Teather: I agree with the hon. Gentleman. One of the housing association professionals are now advocating of his colleagues mentioned earlier what happens when almost a return to the circumstances that brought housing people move away from affordable rented housing into associations about in the first place. the private sector: inevitably they have to claim housing Finally, let me make one quick point: we have mixed benefit to pay their rent. Over the past couple of months, tenure on many of our estates, and it is because of as we have seen, the scandal of the cost of housing leasehold. My hon. Friend the Minister will be aware of benefit to the public purse inevitably results in a knee-jerk how much lobbying I have done for a better deal for reaction from the Government and their capping the leaseholders on local authority estates who face large limit on housing benefit, rather than concentrating on major works bills. I ask him again, please, can we do increasing the amount of affordable housing. So we go something to assist households such as those on the round in a circle and never get anywhere. Little Venice estate who will shortly be receiving bills Many people in my constituency say to me, “Look, I for up to £55,000? Those are the people who we encouraged really want to work and want to be able to afford to go to buy. In many cases, they are working families or to work. I want to provide for my children. I’m qualified pensioners, and we have to do something to recognise to work and have been offered a job but I cannot afford the difficult situation that they are in. to work, because if I went to work I would lose my Once again, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member housing benefit and could not afford my rent.” This is for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s Bush on this debate. not a sensible way to get people to contribute to the It shows just how clear the divide is between our side, community. for all the faults in our housing delivery, and those who are advocating market rents and an end to security of Jeremy Corbyn: I largely agree with what the hon. tenure. Lady is saying. Would she and her party support the principle of moving to a much tighter form of private sector rent control and increased security of tenure for 10.29 am tenants in the private sector? That is the fastest-growing Sarah Teather (Brent, East) (LD): May I congratulate sector in London at present and the greatest source of the hon. Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s insecurity there. Bush (Mr. Slaughter) on securing this debate? It is good to see that it is so well attended. It is a great a pleasure Sarah Teather: I do not support such a policy, but I to follow the hon. Member for Regent’s Park and will say something about the private sector towards the Kensington, North (Ms Buck), who always makes a end of my speech, if I have time. knowledgeable, thoughtful contribution to debates on Other hon. Members who have attended debates in housing. I have attended many such debates over the which I have spoken will know that I feel strongly about past 18 months to two years and she has attended housing, not just because it is my role in my party but almost all of those on London issues. because in my constituency 20,000 families are on the I agree with the hon. Lady’s point, which was picked housing waiting list to get into affordable housing to up by many other hon. Members, about the threat to rent. That number does not include the people who are security of tenure. I was greatly alarmed to hear one of already in such housing, although it may be unsuitable, the housing associations advocate this policy at a fringe on the wrong floor or overcrowded. A large percentage meeting at my party’s conference: it was roundly jumped of people in my constituency are in housing misery. One on by almost everybody in the room. I wonder who in 10 children in my constituency are in temporary supports that policy, beyond a couple of isolated housing accommodation. associations and perhaps one Tory council. Perhaps the The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster hon. Member for Putney (Justine Greening), the (Mr. Field) mentioned the Evening Standard campaign. Conservative party spokesperson, will tell us what her I wish that it had begun this campaign sooner, but I am party’s policy is on the threat to security of tenure. delighted that it is campaigning on this issue in the There are not many other voices supporting that. run-up to the election. It is ironic that the Government spend a lot of money picking up the pieces of broken Mr. Slaughter: I have here the minutes of the meeting housing policy with regard to antisocial behaviour, that took place in Hammersmith— education, health and employment. If they addressed the issue of affordable housing, they would not need to Mr. Mark Field: So secret. spend as much on other things to deal with the crisis caused by their failure to tackle the problem. We desperately Mr. Slaughter: We had to hack into a website to get it, need more affordable housing. We also need more housing so it was quite difficult. in London: this is a basic supply and demand issue. 197WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 198WH

[Sarah Teather] able to claim it back later when they sell the property. We should give them that incentive to hold on to the A number of hon. Members spoke about the Mayor’s property, and to be more professional and to invest in targets, which are part of the issue, but it is also to do their property, so that the standards are higher. with the problems relating to section 106 not working It is also about giving people on benefits access to well at a time when the economy is less buoyant, and different properties. Any constituency Member of with a failure of courage on the part of many councils. I Parliament knows that most landlords will not take have taken an interest in the Brent Cross Cricklewood people on local housing allowance or housing benefit. planning development, which is not in my constituency A scheme called “Fast track” has been operating with but is on the edge of it and will have a big impact on the great success in pilot studies in the south-east. That Cricklewood area. I was shocked that Barnet council scheme is a mixture of advice and insurance, giving approved that development with only 13 per cent. affordable people access to much higher-quality private sector housing. In fact, it is leaving that agreement to be accommodation and giving families real choice, providing renegotiated every year. I fear that the percentage of an alternative to the race to the bottom that we see at affordable housing will go down rather than up. Such the moment. multi-million pound developments really should contain a higher proportion of affordable housing. Jeremy Corbyn: I appreciate the time constraints on While there is enormous housing need, there are also the hon. Lady, but will she acknowledge that phenomenal 100,000 empty properties in London. I do not want to profits are being made from renting out former council run through all Liberal Democrat policy in the next properties, often at four times the rent that councils three minutes—[Interruption.] We have so much housing charged? It is not incentives that private landlords need; policy that I would be here until around half-past 11, they need controls on them. and I need to allow other hon. Members to speak. I want to mention a couple of further points: the Sarah Teather: I am not in favour of rent controls private sector, which the hon. Member for Ealing, Acton because the distorting effect on the market would be and Shepherd’s Bush mentioned, and empty properties. immense. Perhaps the real issue is giving councils greater We know that the economy will be tight and there will ability to control the freedoms on the right to buy, so be huge restrictions on public sector spending over the that not so many properties—especially in areas such as next five to 10 years, whoever is in government. It is London where we are in dire need of affordable housing— particularly sensible at this time to focus on getting are sold off and then used in the way suggested by the more affordable housing, and more housing overall, hon. Gentleman. back into the system in as economic a way as possible. I I wish that housing were a greater political issue am baffled that we are prepared to leave so many during the election. I am grateful for Shelter’s campaign properties empty, particularly in London, when so many ahead of the election to raise awareness of the issue, but people are in housing need. That is why we are pledging encouraging people who are in deep housing need and to put £1.4 billion into a mixed loans and grants scheme misery to vote is perhaps the most important thing that to bring 250,000 empty properties back into use. That it can do. The Government have failed significantly to will not solve the entire housing problem in London— provide affordable housing for my constituents, and I nobody is suggesting that it will—but it is a commitment have no faith in the Conservative party’s ability to to invest and it will make a difference to those families provide for them. I desperately wish that people in who need a place to live and to streets with empty housing need would shout louder now. Prospective properties that blight the local community. It will also Governments might then listen to them in the run-up to make a significant difference to the construction industry. the election when they are looking for votes. One problem during this recession is the huge loss of jobs in the construction industry. Even when we come 10.41 am out of recession and are able to begin building again, we will have no chance of meeting the need that is there Justine Greening (Putney) (Con): I also congratulate because of the loss of skills in that trade. If we invested the hon. Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s in bringing empty properties back into use now, that Bush (Mr. Slaughter) on securing the debate. As London would create some 50,000 jobs in the construction industry, MPs, we all recognise how important housing is in which would maintain that capacity. Therefore, as we London—not just in our own communities, but throughout came out of recession, we would have a chance of the city. Housing is one of the most important aspects meeting the housing need in London. of people’s everyday lives, whether they are families It is crucial that we raise standards in the private stuck on a social housing waiting list, communities sector so that people at either end of the market have as living in run-down areas that desperately need regeneration much choice as possible. We will never be able to or young couples struggling to get on the property provide as much affordable housing as London needs, ladder. Housing concerns are relevant to everyone in but there would be less need if the standard in the the city, and increasingly so in recent years, unfortunately. private sector were greater, if people felt that they had In some respects, there has been more consensus in better choice, and if those on benefits did not have the Chamber than I expected. I agree with many of the access only to housing at the bottom of the heap. We Labour MPs who have spoken that we have been let need to create incentives for landlords to improve their down during the years of the Labour Government. As property, which is why we have argued for a cut on VAT has been said, there has been a lack of national political for renovation and rebuild, and for landlords to be able leadership from the Government for many years and, to claim the tax back on the work that they do on the unfortunately, far too often and increasingly at local property against their income, rather than only being level. 199WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 200WH

I shall comment briefly on Hammersmith and Fulham, In fact, less social housing has been built every year because the hon. Gentleman mentioned it, and then under Labour than under the Conservative Government. talk about the broader London housing issues and Warm words in a debate are not enough. The reality is some specific aspects of waiting lists and empty properties. that there have been fewer social housing starts and The reality is that Hammersmith and Fulham council completions, and that is unacceptable. has given a commitment to provide quality housing for In London, action is being taken to address the council tenants, and has pledged to build at least 6,500 new problem, but figures released last week confirm that in homes by 2021, which is nearly one third more than the England the statistics on net supply of housing produced level set by the former Labour Mayor of London in his by the Department for Communities and Local London plan. Of those extra homes, 50 per cent. will be Government show that eight of the nine English regions affordable housing. There is a desire to ensure that there saw a decrease in the number of net additional dwellings is additional housing in Hammersmith and Fulham for supplied in 2008-09. The only region to experience an the people who need it most. annual increase in net housing supply was London, where the increase was 3 per cent. Indeed, the housing Mr. Slaughter: Will the hon. Lady give way? stock is also receiving a boost from the Mayor of London’s actions to bring empty homes back into use. Justine Greening: I would like to make progress. Investment in that project has been trebled to £60 million, It is ironic that today’s debate has in part focused on with 1,000 empty homes brought back into use in demolition when, as I said in an intervention, the housing 2008-09. market renewal pathfinder areas have lost 16,000 homes The development of GLA-owned sites for housing in the midlands and the north, including Victorian provision has the potential to deliver up to 36,000 more terraces. They are often demolished with little more homes, which we all agree would be welcome. Nationally, thought than an inspector’s 10-minute visual inspection. we need proposals to build more homes to benefit So far, just 3,734 new homes have been built as families in London and throughout the country, which replacements, making the housing shortage even worse is why we have discussed new initiatives. We believe that in those areas. In fact, far from helping to regenerate for six years a Conservative Government should match them, that demolition programme has increased deprivation extra council tax generated by councils building new in many of the targeted areas, and some social landlords homes to encourage them to build more homes, especially seem to have deliberately managed areas down into affordable homes. That would provide 125 per cent. of decline to make the benefits of redevelopment from the council tax matching. programme more attractive. When the Select Committee on Office of the Deputy Prime Minister: Housing, As we have heard, not only are fewer affordable Planning, Local Government and the Regions considered houses being built under this Government, but people that major demolition programme, it said that it risks are increasingly struggling to afford those that exist, destroying and the Government’s own advisory panel cited the increase in the deposit required from first-time buyers, “the heritage of areas and” which has shot from 16 per cent. of annual income in failing 2000 to 64 per cent. in 2009. Under the social homebuy “to replace it with neighbourhoods of lasting value.” scheme to enable tenants to own or part-own their rented property, sales have been far short of the predicted The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for levels. The scheme was designed to help 5,000 households Communities and Local Government (Mr. Ian Austin): a year, but at the end of September 2009 only 328 sales How many areas has the hon. Lady visited? had been completed. Its performance has been woeful, compared with the original hopes for it. Justine Greening: I have not visited any. We are talking The feedback from many constituencies is that the about communities that have been demolished. various homebuy schemes on offer are complicated and people do not understand which one is right for them. Mr. Austin: Has the hon. Lady not been to a single There is a real need to streamline the system and to one? make clearer the path that people may take to get on the housing ladder through part-ownership. Mrs. Joan Humble (in the Chair): Order. Will the hon. Lady return to housing in London, which is the subject In London, the lack of affordable housing has been of the debate? particularly acute. Investment in affordable homes has been lowered with £350 million cut from the city’s Justine Greening: I will, Mrs. Humble, but I realise top-up to the affordable homes fund, despite having that I have touched a nerve. It is a scandal that 16,000 48,000 households in temporary housing. The Mayor is homes have been demolished and only 4,000 have been taking action, and has pledged to build 50,000 new rebuilt to replace them when there is such desperate affordable homes throughout London by 2012. That need for housing—not just in London, but throughout will be the highest number of affordable homes ever the country.That is relevant, and it shows the contradiction delivered in one mayoral term, and it is set against the of the Government’s policies. House building nationally backdrop of the worst recession for decades. has fallen to its lowest since the second world war, with To date, 20,000 of those homes have been built since just 118,000 completions in England last year. the Mayor was elected in 2008. That project, I hope, Under this Government, 250,000 fewer social homes remains on track to meet the 2012 target. In his first have been built than would have been the case if we had year in office, the Conservative Mayor built more affordable maintained at the same level the run rate of social homes than the previous Labour Mayor managed in his housing being built under the Conservative Administration. final term. 201WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 202WH

[Justine Greening] I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s Bush (Mr. Slaughter) Finally, I want to talk about waiting lists and on securing the debate. He is a fantastic advocate for his overcrowding, which are a real concern across London community, based on a foundation of 25 years’ service, and issues that I hear about in my surgery. The provision hard work and delivery for the people he represents. We of sufficient and suitable social housing has been incredibly hope that that will continue for a long time. poor under this Government. The lack of social housing The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster supply combined with the rising number of people in (Mr. Field) asked a series of questions about the Crown need of social housing has, as we have heard, led to a Estate and mentioned the work that he has been doing soaring number of households being on local authority with my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and waiting lists—up from 1.1 million people in 1996 to a St. Pancras (Frank Dobson). As the hon. Gentleman staggering 1.8 million in 2009. rightly said, the Treasury is taking the lead on that issue; we have received a number of representations and Mr. Slaughter: I sense crocodile tears. If that is so, are in discussions with the Treasury. I am happy to talk will the hon. Lady condemn her colleague from to him about that in more detail, if he would like. Hammersmith and Fulham, who says that there are My hon. Friend the Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) “already too many socially rented homes in the area… We want is an acknowledged expert on these matters, along with to attract people who are very rich… We must stop our borough my hon. Friends the Members for Regent’s Park and becoming a ghetto for… the urban poor”, Kensington, North (Ms Buck) and for Islington, North and that the long-term future for housing estates is to (Jeremy Corbyn). I congratulate my hon. Friend the turn them into “decent neighbourhoods”? That is the Member for Eltham on the commitment he has made to real rhetoric of the Tory party, not the crocodile tears housing policy during his work with the Department being shed here today. for Communities and Local Government, and I am happy to assure him that we will not impoverish 8 million Justine Greening: I find it hard to disagree with the tenants. statement that the long-term objective is to ensure that Like my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Brent, council homes are in decent neighbourhoods. We would East (Sarah Teather), I want housing to be a bigger all agree with that, but the hon. Gentleman seems to be issue than ever before at the next election, so that we sensationalising it, which is counter-productive to a can win a mandate for more investment in social housing genuine political debate about what those decent in the future. neighbourhoods should look like and how to ensure It is always a pleasure to debate with the hon. Member that they function properly. for Putney, but she has disappointed me today. I was To finish my comments on overcrowding, the reality hoping to get an answer to the letter that was sent to the is that, in London, nearly 7 per cent. of households are Leader of the Opposition about her party’s housing in overcrowded accommodation. That is the legacy that policies and the points that were made on security of we have after 13 years of the Labour Government. tenure. Perhaps I will have to write to the hon. Lady Nearly 7 per cent. of families in London live in overcrowded directly about those matters to get an answer. accommodation, and the problem is even more severe in I want to pick up on one thing that the hon. Lady social rented housing, where nearly 13 per cent. of said, because the points that she made about pathfinders families live in overcrowded conditions. That is up from are complete nonsense. If she had visited—as I have—Stoke, just over 10 per cent. in 1995, and is a real indictment of Sandwell, Birmingham, Hull and Liverpool, she would the lack of building of social housing during Labour’s have seen the work that is being done to assemble land term of office, which I hope is coming to an end. in those areas, and know the time that it takes to deal The Mayor has promised to halve severe overcrowding with owners and developers and to get developments in social housing over this decade, with a move towards under way. She would also see the huge contribution building larger and better designed family-sized homes. that the pathfinder programme makes to employment We believe that that is a better way to ensure that in the construction trade, the provision of skills and families have the space that they need. work in the community. In summary, a number of Labour Members have What is worse about what the hon. Lady said is the been highly critical of their Conservative councils, but fact that it is completely the opposite of what the hon. they have been equally critical—rightly so—of their Member for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) told a pathfinders Labour Government. We need regeneration and conference that he spoke at in Manchester. If there is redevelopment to help those communities, and we must one big lesson that the Conservative party must learn, it have more social housing than we have had over the is that it cannot say one thing to a bunch of stakeholders past decade and a half under a Labour Government. and another somewhere else—it will be found out. Unfortunately, we will get that only with a change of From the hon. Lady’s comments today, we take it Government, when the Prime Minister finally has the that the Tory party is not committed to continuing with nerve to call an election. this programme and that if, God forbid, it wins the election, the programme will be abolished. That would drive a nail into any hopes of rebuilding support for the 10.53 am Conservative party in those cities. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Let me pick up on some of the points that have been Communities and Local Government (Mr. Ian Austin): raised. All hon. Members who have spoken today Thank you for calling me, Mrs. Humble—I am still mentioned the long-standing lack of social housing in laughing at the final point made by the hon. Member London and other parts of the country, which has for Putney (Justine Greening). resulted in problems such as long waiting lists, lack of 203WH Housing (London)2 MARCH 2010 Housing (London) 204WH mobility and overcrowding. We have been working to over a year, with responsibility for housing and regeneration address that in recent years, but the economic crisis has funding. By bringing those programmes together, the brought some of those problems into even sharper HCA is discussing regeneration and housing needs with relief, with consequences for home owners, house builders each of the London boroughs, and it will be able to and prospective buyers. deliver better and more focused outcomes for places I will summarise some of the statistics that illustrate and communities. the scale of the problem. In September last year, there We have responded to these problems. The Government were 43,490 households in temporary accommodation are committed to investing £7.5 billion over two years—a in London, some 76 per cent. of the total in England. commitment not matched by the Opposition—to deliver On 1 April last year, there were 354,000 households on up to 112,000 affordable homes and about 15,000 private the waiting list for social housing in the capital. There is homes. concern in many parts of London about the options on offer once people are in social housing and need to Jeremy Corbyn: I am pleased with the money that move home, perhaps because their family has grown. was allocated, and I understand that the application on I am well aware of families who live in cramped and this round was grossly oversubscribed. Will the Minister overcrowded conditions, and the impact that that has give an indication of how much money will be available on their quality of life. I assure my hon. Friend the in the next round for new council house building? Member for Regent’s Park and Kensington, North that, Mr. Austin: I cannot give my hon. Friend that assurance like her, I want to see a solution to the problems that today, but I can tell him that London is the biggest leaseholders in her constituency are facing. We are in recipient in relation to the £7.5 billion that we have discussions about that, and I look forward to meeting allocated and is receiving £2.8 billion of that money, her again to discuss such matters. which is 37 per cent. of the total. That funding includes The need for additional housing in the city, including the £1.5 billion housing pledge announced last year, affordable housing, is well documented. The GLA’s which, as my hon. Friend says, is expanding the role of recent strategic housing market assessment estimated local authorities to deliver new homes. housing need at 32,580 homes per year. It also showed a A series of points has been raised, not least by my need for 18,200 affordable homes per year in the capital, hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd’s and within that, evidence points to an 80:20 per cent. Bush, and I will write to him in detail to answer those split between social renting and intermediate housing. points. In conclusion, there is clearly a commitment by Put simply, the only way to resolve the underlying the Government on the need for more housing, particularly problem of housing in London is to increase supply, affordable housing in London— particularly the supply of affordable housing. As hon. Members will be aware, the Homes and Mrs. Joan Humble (in the Chair): Order. We must Communities Agency has been in operation for just now move to the next debate. 205WH 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 206WH Government) Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local Mr. Clarke: The hon. Gentleman has not so far Government) addressed in what respect the proposals would damage the interests of his constituents. I can see why he may have a general argument about the unitary pattern for 11 am Norfolk—he is entitled to make that case—but which Mr. Keith Simpson (Mid-Norfolk) (Con): It is a great specific interests of his constituents would be damaged, pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mrs. Humble. in his opinion, if the order was agreed? Although it is also a pleasure to see the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the Mr. Simpson: I am genuinely surprised that someone hon. Member for Stevenage (Barbara Follett), I must as experienced as the right hon. Gentleman, who has say, with no disrespect to her, that many of us were been an MP as long as I have and who has been a hoping that the Minister for Regional Economic Minister, should assume that within the first two or Development and Co-ordination, who is responsible for three minutes I would get to the point that is coming local government, would be here to answer many of our later in my speech. I will be addressing that point and I questions. am happy to take further interventions from him, but I The purpose of this short debate that I have been am trying now to establish the chaotic way in which lucky enough to achieve is to persuade the Minister to Government instructions were given to the boundary withdraw the orders for the unitary proposals for Norfolk committee and the boundary committee then had to and Devon or, at the very least, to postpone them. respond. Today in the House of Lords, the Merits of Statutory Instruments Committee will be considering the Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): Government’s case for these unitaries, and it may be Does my hon. Friend agree that part of the chaos was that it will take our proceedings into account and delay completely self-inflicted by the Government and that the proposals. one consequence has been the huge amount of money Ministers’ recent decisions to allow unitaries for both spent on senior local government management time Norwich and Exeter and a second tier for the rest of and the legal cases—money that could have been better Norfolk and Devon are subject to a court hearing on spent on hard-pressed local services? 26 and 27 April. Interestingly, we have discovered that the process of the orders in both Houses may continue Mr. Simpson: Yes, I absolutely agree. Indeed, in despite the court hearing at the end of April, so my first September 2008 three Norfolk councils launched a High question for the Minister is this. What will happen if the Court action against the proposals. In November, the orders are passed through Parliament and the courts High Court rejected a bid to halt the process but said find in favour of Norfolk and Devon county councils that equal weight had to be given to all proposals. In and reject those orders? March 2009, the boundary committee dropped Lowestoft Mr. Charles Clarke (Norwich, South) (Lab): Will the from its Norfolk plans. In July 2009, three Suffolk hon. Gentleman give way? councils launched a successful legal challenge, halting the process, but that was overturned by the Court of Mr. Keith Simpson: May I make a little progress and Appeal in December 2009. then of course I shall let the right hon. Gentleman in? On 7 December last year, the boundary committee Let me briefly sketch in for hon. Members, most of published its final advice to the Government for single whom know it, the background to the current situation. unitaries in Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon. The Government It goes back to October 2006, when the Government had a six-week consultation period and, on 10 February, invited councils to submit proposals for unitaries. In the Minister responsible for local government rejected March 2007 Ipswich, Exeter and Norwich submitted the boundary committee’s advice and announced that proposals for stand-alone unitaries based on their existing Norwich would become a unitary on current boundaries city boundaries. In July 2007, Norwich failed to meet and the rest of Norfolk would stand alone. Suffolk the ministerial criteria, not least in relation to its current would keep the status quo, but the Minister urged local boundaries, and the boundary committee for England politicians to establish a constitutional convention to was instructed to consider the alternatives. That is a discuss the best form of unitary there. Exeter was to very important point because it is the start of the have a unitary on present boundaries, with the rest of three-year process. Devon standing alone. Therefore, with the exception of The proposal for Norwich on expanded boundaries Suffolk, the Minister’s final decision on 10 February was therefore one of those that the Ministers thought was to go back exactly to the beginning—it was a the boundary committee should consider. In February matter of going forward into the past. All that money, 2008, the Department instructed the boundary committee time and effort were wasted. to consider new alternatives including Yarmouth and I have in the past said a few harsh words about the Waveney. The following July, the boundary committee boundary committee, but it has my deepest sympathy proposed a single Norfolk including Lowestoft from for the amount of nugatory work that it undertook. In Suffolk, with alternative proposals including a Greater some respects, one could not make this tale up. The Norwich and a Norfolk doughnut including Lowestoft, whole process has, I believe, reflected the Labour and a wedge merging Norwich, Yarmouth and Lowestoft. Government’s determination to establish unitary proposals To say the least, the proposals just for the area that I am that would benefit the Labour party. That was the view talking about are muddled. I say straight away that I am in Norfolk and Norwich back in 2007. After nearly not examining the detail of the issues relating to Suffolk three years of work by the boundary committee, we are and Devon. Other hon. Members will wish to comment back to square one. As my hon. Friend the Member for on that. North-West Norfolk (Mr. Bellingham) says, a vast amount 207WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 208WH Government) Government) of money and effort have been expended, which in the should have accused the permanent secretary and other past year, given the economic downturn, could have civil servants in the DCLG of being biased, seriously been better used for the benefit of our constituents. mishandling the situation and deliberately leaking the From the very start of the process, I was sceptical documents to undermine Ministers? Does my hon. Friend about the Government’s intentions and did not believe not think, as I do, that that warrants an inquiry? that the proposals would benefit my constituents. I was fortunate enough to be able to initiate two debates on Mr. Simpson: Yes, I find that incredible, given that the the unitary proposals for Norfolk, on 20 November permanent secretary wrote to my hon. Friend the Member 2007 and 9 July 2008. Rereading those debates, I have for South Norfolk—he may want to comment on this to say, with some degree of modesty, that I and others later—enclosing not only his letter to the Secretary of who opposed the Government’s process were proved State for Communities and Local Government, but the absolutely right. reply. The Government’s final proposals for Norfolk and What prompted the permanent secretary to write to Devon have to be set against the five extremely strict the Secretary of State? In his letter of 8 February, the criteria laid down in the Local Government and Public permanent secretary addressed the ministerial decision Involvement in Health Act 2007. First, the proposals to allow unitaries on the current boundaries for Norwich must be affordable—that is, it must be established that and Exeter. He wrote: the change represents value for money and can be met “I do have concerns, principally about their value for money from the councils’ existing resource envelope. Secondly, and feasibility”. the proposals must be supported by a broad cross-section of partners and stakeholders. Thirdly, they must provide He noted that strong, effective and accountable strategic leadership. “the original proposals for a unitary Exeter and Norwich do not Fourthly, they must deliver genuine opportunities for meet all the five criteria (in particular they do not meet the neighbourhood empowerment. Fifthly and finally, they affordability criterion) but you intend to implement them nevertheless”. must deliver value for money and equity in public On the Secretary of State’s argument that a unitary services. Those strict criteria had already been questioned Norwich and a unitary Exeter would eventually achieve by local councils, MPs and outside experts. I will return economic gains, the permanent secretary wrote: in a moment to the failure to meet the criteria. “The evidence for such gains is mixed and representations that you have received provide no evidence to quantify such benefits”. Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): I do not want to The permanent secretary concluded: prejudge what my hon. Friend will say, but does he not find it incredible that the then Secretary of State rejected “My clear legal advice is that the risk of decisions for a unitary Exeter and Norwich, and indeed for not taking action on Suffolk, both proposals in 2007 because they failed at least one being successfully challenged in judicial review proceedings is of the five essential policy tests for implementation? very high”. On 10 February, the Secretary of State replied, spelling Mr. Simpson: Yes, I agree absolutely and I shall out the reasons behind the ministerial—that is, the expand on that point briefly in a few moments. I want political—decision and giving the permanent secretary to flag up the criterion on gaining local support to a direction. The Secretary of State argued: emphasise that the Government’s own legislation—the original Act—specifically excluded public consultation. “We have given careful consideration to the circumstances in They talk about the need for support by a broad cross- which there are compelling reasons to depart from the presumption that proposals that meet the criteria are implemented, and those section of partners, but they never at any time decided that do not are not implemented”. to test public opinion in any of the three areas. The Secretary of State kept referring to advice that he All the arguments against unitary proposals might had received as the basis of his decision. Who gave that have been brushed aside by Ministers had not letters advice? It certainly was not the boundary committee or exchanged between Peter Housden, the permanent secretary the permanent secretary.What was that advice? A Freedom at the Department for Communities and Local of Information request looking into all the letters, Government, and the Secretary of State been placed in e-mails and notes of telephone conversations in the the public domain. We are all grateful to my hon. Department would perhaps be revealing. I have in mind Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Mr. Bacon), the names of one or two external people who might whose letter to the permanent secretary asking whether have given that advice. At the very least, the Minister he was seeking a ministerial direction expedited that should publish the advice. revealing correspondence. The Secretary of State admitted: We know from a written parliamentary question of 10 February, submitted by my hon. Friend the Member “I accept that the Boundary Committee process did not produce for Ruislip-Northwood (Mr. Hurd), that no direction evidence to quantify these benefits but nor did we think it right to set these potential benefits…to one side.” had been asked for or given in the Department or its predecessor since 1997, so the Secretary of State’s direction That refers to the nub of the ministerial case that in the is pretty unique. An article in the Financial Times case of suggested that there have been only nine such directions “a unitary Exeter and a unitary Norwich, we consider that each throughout Whitehall since 1997. What prompted the would be a far more potent force for delivering positive economic permanent secretary to write to the Secretary of State? accounts both for the city and more widely than the status quo two-tier local government”. Mr. Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con): That partially economic and partially political argument Does my hon. Friend find it as astonishing as I do that overrides all the other evidence produced by the boundary the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport committee and, indeed, previous ministerial advice. 209WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 210WH Government) Government) Mr. Swire: I hope to enlarge on this later, but is my The Government do not know; it has not been spelled hon. Friend aware of the fact that most of Exeter’s out. It is assumed that there will be working groups predicted growth area—the airport, the Skypark and involving the current leaders of Norwich city council, the business park—falls outside the current city boundaries who have avoided an election in May, and the leaders of and will be under the jurisdiction of the excellent Devon Norfolk county council and the district councils. county council? There will be a widespread break-up of common services, which will cost more and lead to more duplication. Mr. Simpson: My hon. Friend is quite right. There My constituents will feel the impact in education services, are so many contradictions in the proposals. When I because there will presumably be two directors of education lectured Army officers, it was clear to me that the Army and two education services. In outlying districts of my was very good at lessons learned, and that was true of constituency and the constituency of Norwich, North, both successes and failures. In terms of lessons learned, such as Spixworth, Old Catton and Taverham, that will the current proposals would come under the heading of cause major problems for parents trying to get their a big failure. Indeed, our friend Mr. Peter Riddell of children into school. The Times, who is a powerful influence in the Institute What about support for children? We have a big for Government, should use them as a case study of enough problem now with cases of child abuse and, how not to conduct local government. sadly, child murder. The one lesson that comes out of Despite recognising all the weaknesses in the ministerial all the studies every year is that the existence of too case, the Secretary of State concluded: many authorities is invariably a weakness. However, we “I acknowledge that the Minister for Local Government and I are going to add another authority. I hang the proposals have been advised there is a high risk of successful legal challenge around the heads of those urging us to implement them particularly to decisions to implement a unitary Exeter and a as the worst kind of example. unitary Norwich”. Libraries, the fire service—everything will cost more It is game, set and match, just on the basis of that in the short term. There will be more posts of one kind exchange of correspondence. or another, and some people will do very nicely, but my constituents will not. Unless the Minister can argue that Mr. Charles Clarke: Fifteen minutes into his speech, the proposed services—we do not, of course, know the hon. Gentleman has not identified one single respect what they will be—will be the same as, if not better in which the proposal for a unitary Norwich could than, the services currently provided by Norfolk county damage his constituents’ interests. Will he address that? council, I would certainly reject the proposals. Ministers are keen to talk about empowerment and Mr. Simpson: As an old student activist, I recognise stakeholders, and the senior civil servant at the Department the right hon. Gentleman’s concern that he is on a sticky who is responsible for unitaries even has the title “Deputy wicket. I am about to do as he asks. I have already Director, Local Democracy”, but there is no support of damaged his main case and I will happily expand, significance for the proposals throughout Norfolk or without taking too much time, on how the proposals even in Norwich: there has been only a lukewarm will damage my constituents’ interests; indeed, I will tell response. There were approximately 1,424 responses to him how they have damaged them over the past four the Department’s consultation on the boundary committee’s years. I say that because he and Baroness Hollis have proposals for a Norfolk unitary, held between 8 December been two of the leading advocates of the proposals and 2009 to 19 January 2010. I accept that that is not a any FOI request may well discover the heavy influence proper survey and the Government are not interested in that they have brought to bear on Ministers. holding a referendum on the question, but just on the Ultimately, the ministerial proposals come down to Norfolk proposals, 85 per cent. of those who submitted the vague assertion that a unitary Norwich and a unitary comments wanted the status quo, 10 per cent. were in Exeter could be a potent force for delivering positive favour of a Norfolk unitary, and 3 per cent. wanted a economic growth. In the case of Norwich, there is Norwich unitary. Is that what local democracy is all absolutely no evidence for that—indeed, the exact reverse about? I am concerned not just about the likely impact is true. As somebody who was born and bred in Norwich, on my constituents, but about the impact on the people I say with great sadness that Norwich cannot meet the of Norwich. The proposal would not provide them with proposed criteria under a Labour council. what they want. It would mean two or three years of Under Labour, Norwich city council has been an chaos, confusion and reorganisation, to the detriment unfortunate example of local government incompetence. of constituents across the board. Recently, it has effectively been put in special measures, I urge the Minister to withdraw the proposals. My with a chief executive drafted in. It gets low scores on hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst nearly every criterion by which local government can be (Robert Neill), who is our Front-Bench spokesman, judged. Last year, the director of housing was sacked says that in the event of our winning the general election, because of a housing scam. That is the example that the we would reverse the proposals. Most people in Norfolk Government want to give us in terms of economic would say amen to that. growth. I have sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman, who would have a much stronger case if Norwich city council was a five-star council that really would be an 11.21 am engine, rather than a sheet anchor, for the rest of Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): I do not wish to Norfolk detain right hon. and hon. Members for too long, What will happen to the rest of Norfolk—to my because my colleagues are well represented here this constituents and those of the majority of Norfolk MPs— morning and want to contribute. I shall talk about the under the Government’s proposals for a unitary Norwich? economics of the matter; others will rehearse the political 211WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 212WH Government) Government) side and the influence of the Secretary of State for Exeter will be better off on its own, without that land, Culture, Media and Sport, who is the Member of must be no. Will Devon county council function better Parliament for Exeter. He has made extremely unfortunate without Exeter? The answer is no. Are the existing remarks about the permanent secretary at the DCLG, district councils working better? The answer is yes: which I agree should be looked into. Ministers simply enhanced two-tier working is working extremely well. cannot go around making accusations about senior civil East Devon district council works closely with South servants, and the right hon. Gentleman should know Somerset district council and is beginning to make better. economies for the taxpayers of East Devon. I am in despair about the idea of Exeter going it I suspect that it will be as a result of freedom of alone as has been proposed, and I can do no better than information requests and a change of Government that to quote paragraph 5.5 of the advice that the boundary we finally discover what has really gone on in the committee gave the Secretary of State on unitary local Department and what influence current and past Secretaries government in Devon, in December 2009, which stated that of State have had on Ministers. To make this decision so “were Exeter alone to become a unitary authority on its existing late in the day is a great shame, and it will be to boundaries, and the remaining area of the county to stay two-tier, Ministers eternal shame if they go ahead with it. there would be serious questions over the ability of the two-tier area to function effectively as a unit of local government”. 11.26 am That is one view. Another view is that Exeter alone would not be able to function usefully as a unitary. That Mr. Charles Clarke (Norwich, South) (Lab): I apologise is not only my view. It is also the view of Councillor for having a cold today; I hope it does not spread to too Saxon Spence, the leader of the Labour group on many Opposition Members. Devon county council, who said: Perhaps I may begin with the fundamentals of the “Regarding the Exeter proposal...I have made it clear it would argument, which are that the case for unitary local require considerable financial support. I would not like to see the government is very strong. It is accepted all across setting up of an authority without the capacity to deliver services, Scotland, Wales and urban England, and many other and I do think that there would need considerable financial parts of England, for reasons of the efficiency, underpinning...Times are not, perhaps, too promising.” co-ordination, transparency and costs of government. After 11 or 12 year of Labour Government I say “Hear, That is the reason for the process. I am a strong supporter hear.” Times are not promising. of unitary local government and think that it is generally It is extraordinary that such an amount of money the right way to go. It gives citizens greater purchase should be spent on something that I believe will not over the decisions of the organisations that take decisions happen, when there are areas in all our constituencies about their lives, and is more efficient and effective. I that are crying out for funding for front-line services. I could give myriad examples of the truth of that from am concerned about the future of the Rolle college site the city of Norwich, and I think it is true elsewhere. in Exmouth, of Exeter college in Exeter and of Bicton However, I have some common ground with the hon. college in my constituency, which is threatened with Member for Mid-Norfolk (Mr. Simpson) in that I concede merger because of lack of funding from the Learning that the process in the case that we are debating has and Skills Council. Does the Minister, in her heart of been incompetent to a great extent. Both in the time hearts, think that the exercise provides value for money taken and in its operation, it has been damaging. I for the taxpayer? Given that the Conservative party has found the decisions of the boundary committee at said it will not implement the proposal, is not it better, various stages incomprehensible. I think that all hon. even at this late stage, to heed the advice of the permanent Members in the House would probably agree that its secretary and many bodies and accept that it should not original preferred option of a unitary Norfolk plus go ahead? Waveney had no support at all, anywhere. Finally, let me comment on the idea that Exeter can The process gives rise to serious issues, but I do not grow, as a city and a vibrant economic entity, as a unity think that that extends to the final decisions, which will authority. Exeter is a great city and the capital city of be debated in the House in due course. However, I must our county, which is one reason many of us do not want concede that the process has been time-consuming and it to be ripped out of the county. As I said in an has taken great energy and resource, and that that was intervention, much of the economic success on which it very serious. relies can occur only through the use of land that is now I do not associate myself with those who criticise the in East Devon. I am thinking of Exeter airport, the permanent secretary at the Department for Communities proposed new science park, the intermodal rail-freight and Local Government. I knew Peter Housden extremely terminal, the new business park and Cranbrook, the well when he was the deputy secretary responsible for new town. The highways authority will continue to be schools and I was Secretary of State for Education and Devon county council, outside Exeter. In other words, Skills. He is a civil servant of great integrity and experience all the projected areas for growth in the area will remain of local government, and he will have had his own views under the jurisdiction of Devon county council, largely on the matter, and expressed them. I do not think, in East Devon. however, that that concession on my part undermines A line between Exeter and that development will be the case for the Secretary of State’s decision, and the an impediment for the constituents of Exeter and will way he needs to take it. be unworkable—unless Exeter’s plan is eventually to try to expand the city boundaries to include the airport and Mr. Cox: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it the surrounding areas of economic growth. However, is wrong, in the light of the remarks that he has just we must take the proposal to be what we have been told, made, for a member of the Cabinet to accuse senior and on the face of it the answer to the question whether civil servants of bias, leaking information and seriously 213WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 214WH Government) Government) [Mr. Cox] The position that the Secretary of State is faced with—I think we are faced with it, too—is whether we mishandling the situation for years? Does he not agree prefer the status quo or the proposal that he has, I am that Ministers should take responsibility for their glad to say, made for a unitary Norwich on existing city Departments’ decisions, not pillory civil servants for boundaries. As I have said, that is not as good as a their Departments’ mistakes? unitary Norwich on extended boundaries, but nevertheless Mr. Charles Clarke: I have not seen the remarks that it is significantly better than the status quo. the hon. and learned Gentleman refers to, so I will not I have made representations. I wrote to the Secretary comment on them. I agree that Ministers should take of State during the consultation that took place after responsibility for their decisions. I have carried that the boundary committee recommendations were made, through in my own political career; it is important not saying that I favoured going for unitary on current to offload on civil servants. That is one reason why I boundaries—no doubt that will be published in due commend the Secretary of State for Communities and course. That is my position publicly, privately and in Local Government for taking the decision that he has, every other way. Why? Because there are benefits to having heard the advice and rightly exchanging unitary local government, and they will affect and benefit correspondence with the permanent secretary. That is my constituents directly. the perfectly correct process. The Secretary of State is We have an example in the centre of Norwich right entitled to make the decision that he has, and I am glad now, in the proposals for urban pedestrianisation of that he has done so. Westlegate, which were blocked by the Tory county Throughout this process, I have favoured a solution council and will now, I am glad to say, be carried founded on a unitary Norwich based on wider boundaries, through. Opinion in Norwich has been fired up by the rather than on either one, two or more unitaries for the decision of the Conservative county council to close rest of Norfolk. I have always thought that that was two day centres in my constituency, turn off the street more logical, and I hoped that the boundary committee lighting in just about every street in the city between would come to that view, because it would have been a midnight and 5 am—based on the experience of rural preferable situation to the one we have at the moment. villages—and cut out the money that comes to schools In that context, it is laughable to suggest, as the hon. in particular difficulty in areas of poverty, which affects Member for Mid-Norfolk did, that all this is happening my constituency in particular. That is a string of Tory because of some process of political advantage. Any county council decisions that take no account of the political aspects of it are certainly not advantaging the needs and desires of the citizens of Norwich. That is Labour party in Norwich, or anywhere else, and that is why those citizens—I speak only for Norwich—believe even more the case on a wider boundaries basis. that unitary local government is better for them, as Anybody who makes such an allegation is perhaps indeed it is. It is more efficient, transparent and cost-effective, not looking too carefully at the twin-hatters in their and that is why I support the order. own constituencies—members of their constituency associations—who are collecting their two payments as The hon. Member for Mid-Norfolk talks about district and county councillors. The hon. Gentleman Norwich’s incapacity to take such decisions. If unitary should look carefully before making allegations about councils such as Hartlepool, Darlington, Bracknell Forest political interest in that regard. and Halton, which are significantly smaller than Norwich, and ones of broadly the same size—Middlesbrough, Mr. Keith Simpson: Will the right hon. Gentleman Cleveland and Redcar, Blackburn with Darwen, Blackpool, confirm that, as a consequence of the proposals, the and Reading—can take such unitary decisions, I do not May elections are to be cancelled in Norwich, when accept that Norwich cannot. If there are arguments there was every likelihood that the Labour party would about the competence or incompetence of Norwich city be wiped out? council, let those arguments be resolved by the electors Mr. Clarke: I do not concede that in any way. For a of Norwich in the election in May 2011. That is the long time, Labour’s view in Norwich has been that it is right way to do it. better for local elections to coincide with general elections because turnout is higher in general elections, and that Mr. Simpson: There has been no real test of opinion is what we, as a Labour party, generally favour. These in Norwich. A survey was done about three years ago orders take away the elections that would have coincided by the Eastern Daily Press, which showed a minority in with the general election and replace them with a new favour. Neither the right hon. Gentleman nor I has any election in a year and couple of months’ time— basis of opinion, apart from the replies that were sent in May 2011—which will not coincide with a general to the Department for Communities and Local election, unless there are extraordinary circumstances. Government, so any idea that there is popular support That is not in Labour’s interests. I would have thought is questionable, to say the least. that the hon. Gentleman would be pleased about that. The orders will also lead to the re-election of the whole of Norwich council. If the hon. Gentleman was Mr. Clarke: With respect to the hon. Gentleman, I concerned about the efficiency or otherwise of Norwich think that I am in a better position to comment on that city council under Labour leadership over this period, I than he is, as far as the city of Norwich is concerned. would have expected him to welcome the fact that The challenge I put to him and his Front Benchers is within just over a year there will be a chance to have a that they look to the general election when it comes on whole-scale election of a new authority, in which his 6 May, as I believe it will, because I, as the Labour political colleagues can make those cases against Labour. candidate, and the Lib Dem and Green candidates will I do not accept, therefore, the issue of political advantage support unitary Norwich on current boundaries. I think in this context. that the Conservatives will not. 215WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 216WH Government) Government) I note that the hon. Member for Norwich, North Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon) (Con) indicated (Chloe Smith) is not in her place, and I am not sure dissent. what her view on the situation is, but I would be interested to hear it because about 40 per cent. of her Angela Browning: My hon. Friend disagrees with me; constituents are in Norwich—[Interruption.] She is he will no doubt make the case for Plymouth. apparently on a visit to Auschwitz. I did not know that. Ideally, we need a critical mass. In setting those five I respect that. It is obviously a good reason not to be criteria, the Government were right to turn down previous here, and perhaps a better thing to do than be here. The applications, for a unitary Devon or a unitary Devon argument that Norwich cannot run its own affairs is not minus Exeter, because they simply did not meet the warranted, however. criteria. As my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Norfolk My final point is that I do not accept what the hon. (Mr. Simpson) reminded the House, the Government Member for Mid-Norfolk said about the interests of his have suddenly changed the criteria without giving any constituents being damaged by a decision about Norwich. evidence of the analysis on why a change was necessary. He is entitled to make an argument for his own constituents, Ministers simply say that they are compelled to depart but it is wrong to say that a unitary Norwich on current from the presumption that the five initial criteria are boundaries damages his constituents. It leaves Norfolk necessary, without acknowledging that there has been county council with about 85 per cent. of its current no analysis. That gives rise to the question, from those responsibilities across the rest of Norfolk, and the on the Opposition Benches and the members of the argument he has to make is that Norfolk county council, public we represent: why did they change their mind which is generally an efficient county council, will not without the proper analysis? There must be another be able to deliver services to the same level to his reason for suddenly rushing it through on the eve of a constituents in Mid-Norfolk when it is running 85 per general election. It comes close to breaking the ministerial cent. of the county compared to 100 per cent. I see no rules about making significant changes in the run-up to argument for that whatever; it simply does not stack up. an election. The hon. Gentleman is entitled to his view that a One therefore questions what is behind the change. unitary Norwich is wrong—he knows Norwich very There is clearly something behind the decision to which well and can come to that view perfectly reasonably—but we are not privy but Ministers are. That not only raises I do not believe that he can come to that view and at the concerns about the way in which the Government have same time claim to be speaking for his constituents. His conducted themselves over the matter, but it adds to our constituents’ interests will not be affected one iota by concern about what may be left in Devon if the Government unitary status for Norwich, and I hope that the Secretary are successful in making the change and if a future of State’s orders go through Parliament and that he Conservative Government did not overturn it, as has maintains his position on the matter. been promised. There is no doubt about our discussions The hon. Gentleman referred to the judicial review with Ministers. Indeed, a Minister who came to the process, and I was amused that Norfolk county council Department straight from the Treasury considered the decided to join with Devon county council to go through matter in some detail a couple of years ago, and decided that process together, as though they were the same that it clearly did not meet the criteria. He therefore case, which they are not. They had to take solicitors turned down the latest proposal. from Tunbridge Wells to represent their case, rather Those who have seen the details and the financial than from the myriad effective law firms in Norwich. I analysis have rejected the proposal, but suddenly all the do not think that they are on strong ground; they rules have changed, and on the eve of an election the should not be. The change will advance the residents of Government want to rush it through. There must be Norwich, and I hope that it goes through. another objective to the outcome that the Government claim for it. It is not in the interest of the city of Exeter, Several hon. Members rose— nor is it in the interests of the rest of Devon. My constituency surrounds Exeter, and covers both Mrs. Joan Humble (in the Chair): Order. May I point the Mid Devon and East Devon district council areas, out to those Members who wish contribute to the but after boundary changes my constituency neighbour, debate that I intend to start calling the Front-Bench my hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Mr. Swire), speakers at about 12 o’clock? I would be grateful if will have responsibility for the East Devon council area, speakers limited their contributions. which includes the airport and the new town of Cranbrook. It is a carpetbagging exercise. It is essential, in the early 11.39 am stages, that Exeter should have the critical mass to make Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): The it viable. Government originally set five criteria for unitary status: I bring to the attention of the House some of the strategic leadership, neighbourhood empowerment, value comments made in a letter to the House of Lords Select for money, affordability and a broad cross-section of Committee on the Merits of Statutory Instruments, by support. We have had many discussions with Ministers Sara Randall Johnson, the leader of East Devon district over the past four years about the proposal for a unitary council. I totally endorse her comments. She said that Devon, or a unitary Devon minus Exeter. We already “the Government confirms that its ‘priorities today are…jobs and have unitary authorities in Torbay and Plymouth, and economic growth’. I would most certainly concur with this”— have made the case that unitary has not been a great as do I— success in Devon. Anyone who has witnessed what has “and the acknowledgement that local government has an essential happened in Plymouth and Torbay will admit that those role to play in delivering these economic priorities…‘this role is of areas do not have the critical mass to be totally successful. a significance that could not be contemplated in 2006 when the As we see at every election, that results in a change of— criteria were developed’.” 217WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 218WH Government) Government) [Angela Browning] its status over the rest of Devon. It is a cynical political decision. Frankly, it is beneath the Government to So say the Government. stoop that low. The letter continues: Mr. Swire: Is it? “It is a matter of record that even before 2006 local government in Devon was strongly focused on jobs and economic growth”. Mr. Streeter: I like to give people a fair chance. Even after 18 years in the House, I have not come across such For example, the Met Office relocated from Bracknell a political and cynical decision. It will not benefit the to Devon, and there has been an expansion of Exeter people of Exeter. It will be to the detriment of the rest airport’s industrial base. There is also the proposal to of Devon. It should not proceed. go ahead with the new town of Cranbrook, virtually on the same site; that will be an enormous development in 11.47 pm that part of the county in the coming years. However, Mr. Richard Spring (West Suffolk) (Con): I congratulate there is no new economic growth in Exeter that was not my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Norfolk apparent under the existing two-tier system. It has not (Mr. Simpson) on introducing the debate. stultified economic growth and it has not stopped major I wish to speak for Suffolk, and to consider the companies redeploying to the Exeter catchment area. process of this extraordinary decision. In February I represent that rural hinterland that the city of 2008, the boundary committee began to consider a Exeter wishes to bring within its city boundaries. It is a structural review for local government in Suffolk. In travel-to-work area. Many of my constituents travel July 2008, it presented its first draft proposal. It bore no from the Mid Devon and East Devon areas to work in relationship to the historic entity of the county. For the city. In that regard, the city of Exeter, Devon county example, Lowestoft was taken out. In March 2009, the council and the two district councils have had a good committee released a second set of proposals. A one-Suffolk working partnership—we often hear the word “partnership” proposal was formally made, but once again Lowestoft bandied about. I am astonished that the Government was excluded. wish to destroy that partnership in order to railroad One of the first criticisms that come to mind over the through something that can only be politically motivated. idea of a unitary authority that covers the whole of Suffolk is that decision making would be remote. My 11.44 am constituents in places such as Brandon, Mildenhall, Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon) (Con): I shall Newmarket and Haverhill would find the idea of local be mercifully brief, Mrs. Humble. I refer to a letter of services being concentrated in Ipswich and the eastern 10 February 2010 sent by the Minister’s Department to part of the county of little appeal. all Devon authorities that justifies the extraordinary The boundary committee has been charged with decision to grant Exeter unitary authority status. considering the proposals for reform. According to the The Minister agrees with her predecessor that the district and borough councils with which I have been in case for Exeter does not fit the criteria, but none the less contact, it has steadfastly refused to listen to their goes on to say that there are two compelling reasons for concerns. The so-called three council alliance spoke of going ahead. Those reasons are not qualified, but she the committee being inconsistent by attempting to say still finds two reasons to depart from normal procedure that it is listening to and considering all proposals yet and grant Exeter unitary authority status. First, she simultaneously refusing to engage in any dialogue about refers to economic regeneration. She says that a unitary proposals other than its own. A poll commissioned by Exeter would be a far more potent force for delivering the three councils found an overwhelming rejection of positive outcomes for the city and more widely than the the committee’s proposals. The people of west Suffolk status quo of two-tier local government. My hon. Friends are against the change. the Members for East Devon (Mr. Swire) and for Tiverton The serious question is one of cost. The counter-proposal and Honiton (Angela Browning) both spoke about advanced by the three council alliance claims that more that. than £34 million savings of net outgoings can be made by the three unitary authorities. It has been estimated My question to the Minister is this: what is the that the cost of transition and implementation for the evidence for making that statement? If it is a compelling one-Suffolk option, which would be an enormous unitary reason, surely it must be backed by evidence. However, covering the entire county, would be at least £25.5 million. no evidence is given in the letter. Indeed, it flies in the This is at a time when councils are under considerable face of common sense and the experience of the last few pressure. In addition, there are the costs of the boundary years, as my hon. Friends have said. It is not a compelling committee. According to the answer to one of my past reason. It is a blind leap of faith, and it is certainly not parliamentary questions, the boundary committee had sufficient to set aside the normal criteria. spent £282,535 up to March last year, and budgeted a Perhaps I am being unfair. Perhaps the second reason further £269,782 for the current financial year. What is more compelling. The Minister says that a unitary has been the result? The Government have ignored the Exeter could open the way for improvements to the recommendations of their own quango and announced quality of public services. She gives no evidence for that that consultations will continue. Repeated reorganisations startling assertion, but she does not say that it will of public services cause considerable dislocation and a happen or why the Government are convinced about it. great deal of cost. The irresponsibility of such a move is She says that it could happen, meaning that it may made all the more acute by the fact that the Conservative happen—meaning, of course, that it may not. What party has made its position clear on the matter of kind of compelling reason is that? reorganisation. We are close to a general election, and it I agree with my hon. Friends. This extraordinary is the height of irresponsibility to be proceeding on any decision is not motivated by a desire to give the city of basis at all. This should be a matter of party political Exeter some kind of economic regeneration or to favour consensus. 219WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 220WH Government) Government) It is with weary alarm that I look at the current plans say for the record that the documents were not leaked? for local government and the controversy and in-fighting They were sent to me in response to a letter that I had that is accompanying them. The Secretary of State has written to the permanent secretary. Mr. Housden copied decided against the introduction of the so-called one-Suffolk them to the Cabinet Secretary, Sir Gus O’Donnell. I can council, or the boundary committee’s preferred alternative hardly think of a less likely way to leak something than of an Ipswich-Felixstowe unitary authority, on the grounds to send a copy of what one is doing to the Cabinet that Secretary. In his letter, which he also attached to the “neither option is supported by the principal councils in the Secretary of State, he said that county.” “I am concerned that the approach you are currently proposing”— That sentiment is to be greatly welcomed. However, one that is the approach currently proposed by the Secretary wonders why such a decision was not reached much of State— earlier, particularly when one considers the arguments “makes it difficult for me to meet the standards expected of me as that I have been proposing. It should be noted that the Accounting Officer.” issue has been left up in the air. Forest Heath district Far from leaking the documents, he did the right thing. council and St. Edmundsbury borough council said: As for seriously mishandling the situation, I have “The ministerial announcement that there will be a Constitutional since had a letter from the Comptroller and Auditor Convention to determine the future shape of local government in Suffolk prolongs uncertainty and undermines management taking General to whom I also copied the correspondence. It is long term decisions.” a fact of the nature of requesting a direction from a Secretary of State that the permanent secretary will also The drift, the uncertainty, the waste and continued send copies of it to the National Audit Office and the expense of trying to fight an unwanted and uncalled for Comptroller and Auditor General. In his letter, reorganisation that has run for years and failed to come Mr. Housden alludes to that. He says: to a conclusion, still rolls onwards to who knows what end. We simply could not make up such a fiasco. “As I am required to do, I will send copies of your instruction and this letter, to the Comptroller and Auditor General, who will normally draw the matter to the attention of the Public Accounts 11.52 am Committee.” In his letter to me, which I received yesterday by e-mail, Mr. Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con): I am the Comptroller and Auditor General said: grateful to have the opportunity to take part in this debate. I want to focus on the narrow issue of the “The Accounting Officer has followed the correct procedure for raising his concerns about the value for money of the scheme correspondence between me and the permanent secretary by seeking a Direction from his Secretary of State and notifying of the Department for Communities and Local me. In accordance with the provisions set down in ‘Managing Government, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Public Money’”— Mid-Norfolk (Mr. Simpson) referred in his introduction. which is a Treasury guidance document— Since that correspondence there has been an extraordinary “I have notified the Chairman of the Committee of Public and indefensible outburst from the Secretary of State Accounts of this Direction.” for Culture, Media and Sport, the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr. Bradshaw). I should like to hear the In other words, there is no question but that the permanent Minister, on behalf of the Government, condemn what secretary has acted properly. was said and state, on the record, that civil servants have [MR.MARTYN JONES in the Chair] done nothing wrong in relation to such matters. The reason he acted properly is that he was concerned I wrote to the permanent secretary, Mr. Peter Housden, that the approach being proposed by the Government on 3 February. As a member of the Public Accounts was improper, an indefensible use of public funds, Committee, I see permanent secretaries from various unfeasible in the sense of being undeliverable, and Departments twice a week, and have done so for the eight- almost certainly unlawful. In such circumstances, he did and-a-half years that I have been a member of the exactly the right thing. I see that Mrs. Humble has Committee. I am familiar with the fact that one of the transmogrified into you, Mr. Jones, in the last couple of titles of the permanent secretary—it is the reason why seconds, so I will address my concluding comments the permanent secretary is the witness before the Public to you. Accounts Committee—is accounting officer. Permanent I repeat my request to the Minister to ensure that we secretaries are legally, as opposed to politically, responsible all understand, on the record, that the behaviour of that to Parliament for the effective, efficient and economic civil servant has been in the finest traditions of the civil use of public funds. service rather than against them. We all understand that This morning, I was at a seminar, which was chaired the career of the Secretary of State for Culture, Media by the admirable Peter Riddell, at which a former senior and Sport has, in some ways, been an anger management Labour Cabinet Minister, who has only recently stepped therapy and a working out of his feelings towards his down from the Cabinet, said, “Ministers are there to former employer at the BBC, but that is not a reason to represent the public interest first and foremost in obtaining lash out at civil servants, and I hope that the Minister value for money in the use of public resources. That is will confirm that. their job. It is the job of accounting officers, of permanent secretaries, to stand behind them to make sure, if there 11.57 am is any falling short from that standard, that they notify Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): It is a pleasure it to the appropriate authorities.” to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Jones. I congratulate The right hon. Member for Exeter accused Mr. Peter the hon. Member for Mid-Norfolk (Mr. Simpson) on Housden of being biased and said that he was not securing this debate. He, like many hon. Members, has surprised that the documents had been leaked. May I pursued this issue throughout the process, on which 221WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 222WH Government) Government) [Dan Rogerson] because those who are best placed to determine the merits of a case are the people in the areas concerned. local authorities in many parts of the country have So I am not seeking in any way today to wade in and embarked. Some issues were settled earlier on to the intervene in local grief or local triumph. satisfaction of some and the dissatisfaction of others. My purpose in my contribution today is to say that In these three counties, however, the process has been the process has been handled incredibly badly and that, particularly poorly handled. It has dragged on, and the when something such as this change is happening, there goalposts have changed repeatedly. The Government’s is an opportunity to encourage local people to come guidelines have been altered, and various bodies have forward, take a view and become involved in a process been asked to examine a problem that is essentially of that may lead to more efficient local government in the Government’s own making. their area. However, there is nothing so frustrating for The hon. Gentleman referred in his opening remarks people who have taken part in such a process as feeling to the chaos that has been generated by the process, and that it is a tokenistic exercise and that whatever they I agree with him. We have a process that effectively have to say will not be listened to and, in the great paralyses local government at a time when it faces scheme of things, not count for very much. hardship, particularly in the provision of services. Speaking We could perhaps draw a parallel with the regional both on behalf of my party and in a personal capacity, I spatial strategy process, whereby people have made an wish to say that there is a logic to unitary local government. input to a document that, in theory, could have huge In some places, it works very successfully. We have just implications for a local area if those strategies are embarked on the process in my own area in Cornwall. enforced for very long, which remains to be seen. Again, The issue facing us today is not necessarily one of people who have responded to consultations, such as two-tier authorities or unitary authorities being better those on the RSS, have said that they have not felt that able to cope with the problems facing an area. It is those responses have been taken seriously. One therefore about how one considers the process of change and wonders whether, on a future occasion when any whether local people or local organisations have been Government are consulting on serious proposals such able to influence the debate on matters that deeply as these changes, people will be encouraged to engage affect them. with that consultation process, regardless of the merits It is perhaps also important to reflect on the fact that of the proposals. the areas where these issues were settled some time ago We started out with the Local Government and Public were sticking to the Government’s original timetable. Involvement in Health Act 2007, which that enabled the Although the process may have been chaotic in the creation of further unitary authorities. As I have said, I parts of the country that we are discussing today—the am sure that some people in certain parts of the country three counties of Devon, Norfolk and Suffolk—people will welcome such authorities, because there is a logic to in other areas may well look back and think differently. unitary government and unitary authorities can be very successful. Mr. Swire: Given what we have heard the permanent secretary say and given the fact that the Conservative We have had a bidding process, but, as I said earlier, it party has said that it will not allow these changes to has had a tight time scale. There was huge pressure to happen, does the hon. Gentleman not take the view that bring forward bids from different areas, without people other hon. Members have taken today that now is not in those areas having an opportunity to discuss whether the right time for any of this change to go ahead? or not they felt that making a bid was the right thing to do. So county councils of different political complexions Dan Rogerson: My view is that, having had a process around the country put in proposals, and district councils that has been dragged out and having had a timetable did the same thing. In a lot of those areas, the bidding that has been altered on several occasions, it seems process became one whereby people were divided one rather strange that we are suddenly having a conclusion against the other. brought with undue haste just before a general election. I suppose that it is quite natural for an authority’s When issues remain to be settled, or even addressed, officers and members to feel some loyalty to it and, there is a very good case for looking at the process after when they are threatened with change in a very short the general election that we are likely to have in the next time frame, to dig in their heels and say immediately few weeks or months. that they want to preserve the status quo. Some of the bids were therefore perhaps not as imaginative as they Mr. Charles Clarke: Will the hon. Gentleman confirm could have been. The hon. Member for Tiverton and that, in the case of Norwich, this process was initiated Honiton (Angela Browning) referred in particular to some years ago, when the Liberal Democrats ran Norwich issues in Torbay, where a small unitary authority has city council and strongly supported the process? It switched political control and where people are now remains the case that the Liberal Democrats in Norwich experimenting with the elected mayor concept. Of course, support the proposal of a unitary Norwich authority, we will see what happens in a future election there. based on current boundaries. I wonder whether he acknowledges that and whether he accepts that the case Angela Browning: I noticed that the hon. Gentleman’s for these changes is being made not only by the Labour party colleague, the hon. Member for Torbay (Mr. Sanders), party, but by the Liberal Democrats and the Green suggested on television yesterday that we get rid of the party. mayor of Torbay. I hope that he does not agree with that suggestion. Dan Rogerson: The point that I was making, in response to the previous intervention by the hon. Member Dan Rogerson: I have always had reservations about for East Devon (Mr. Swire), was about timing; it was the idea of elected mayors. When I served as a local not necessarily about the merits of an individual case, councillor, I always welcomed the fact that we had the 223WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 224WH Government) Government) opportunity to discuss things among ourselves and to outside Exeter, it is incumbent upon them to explain work together as a wider group. Of course, I was a what those impacts are. I have not yet heard—not just councillor under the old committee system, which I today, but ever—any serious argument that the interests thought was very good and served many areas very of the constituents outside Norwich or Exeter are affected well. Unfortunately, the Government have forced a narrow negatively by the decision for Norwich or Exeter. range of options on local government. The people of Torbay will be able to respond to Dan Rogerson: The right hon. Gentleman has made another point on a far more well-informed basis than I that point before, and it is clear that representatives of can. As the unitary authority there was perhaps struggling other parts of the areas affected feel differently. in some service areas, I wonder whether the bid for a referendum for an elected mayor was seen in that light. Mr. Bacon: May I invite the hon. Gentleman to Consequently, whether or not an elected mayor will be suggest another reason why other constituents could be the right solution for Torbay remains to be seen. affected by these changes? For example, in my constituency, In response to the question put by the hon. Lady, I which immediately abuts the city of Norwich, when the am not personally convinced that elected mayors are unitary authority proves to be unviable—if it goes necessarily the best option. I would prefer a system ahead at all—because it is too small and run by people under which more elected representatives have the who could not run a whelk stall, it will want to expand opportunity to contribute. However, the problem with its boundaries, encroach upon our area and come after unitary authorities such as the one in Torbay is that my constituents for higher council tax payments in they are small and it is very challenging for them to return for a poorer service. provide services. There could have been an opportunity to look at the wider issues relating to the existing Dan Rogerson: The hon. Gentleman has made the unitary authorities. That idea was talked about at one point that, if unitary authorities are created that are stage, but because of the original timetable that the ineffective because of their size and their failure to Government set, that proposal was set aside. reflect existing communities, we may well return to this issue later on. As I have said, there are other parts of the We have also had proposals for county unitaries or country where unitary authorities were created some super-unitaries, which would perhaps struggle to provide time ago, and we may have had an opportunity to put services at the other end of the scale. They would be to those authorities right under this round of proposals. remote from local people. Unlike some of the unitary authorities that were created last year, some of those What is on the table has clearly been hashed together bigger county unitary authorities will find it very difficult rather quickly because of the approaching general election, to engage with local people. That is why all these despite the fact that more time has elapsed than under proposals were unable to command great support from the Government’s original timetable. Other parts of the the local community in each area. country where unitary status was achieved recently or where bids were unsuccessful might well have benefited We have had a process that was originally led by local from the constitutional convention approach that is authorities that were trying to get the best for their local being offered to people in Suffolk. Had that approach areas from what was put on the table by the Government; been offered at the beginning, it would have avoided we had inconclusive results; the boundary committee much of the mess that we are in. for England was then brought in to see whether it could sort out the mess that was left behind, and it proposed large county-wide unitaries and one urban authority in 12.10 pm Suffolk. Again, those proposals did not seem to meet the needs or aspirations of local people and the local Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): Welcome authorities that currently exist. to the Chair, Mr. Jones. You have joined a lively debate and we are delighted to have you with us. We are where we are now, and the Government have stepped in shortly before a general election to attempt I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Mid- to impose a solution, particularly in Devon, where they Norfolk (Mr. Simpson) on securing this important debate. have attempted to impose a solution on Exeter. I understand He has fought valiantly to raise the cause of Norfolk that all the political parties that are represented on throughout this lamentable process and is a trenchant Exeter city council have supported a unitary authority. advocate for the case against the Government’s behaviour. However, despite that support, there must be great I am grateful to him for raising the issues. concerns about the ability of a unitary authority of that I thank all hon. Members who have contributed to size to deliver services effectively. the debate, in particular the serried ranks of my hon. Furthermore, as other Members have already pointed Friends who represent the three counties involved. They out, there are knock-on effects for the surrounding have reinforced the arguments compellingly and I hope authorities, too. I think that the right hon. Member for that in time they will forgive me for not dwelling on each Norwich, South (Mr. Clarke) tried, in effect, to build a of their contributions in detail. wall around Norwich and tried to say, “These issues The right hon. Member for Norwich, South (Mr. Clarke) affect people in Norwich, but they don’t affect the wider spoke in favour of unitaries and I can understand why, Norfolk area”. However, that is not true. Quite clearly, coming from his perspective. Arguments can be made there will be significant effects on the area surrounding for either side and we will have to beg to differ on their Norwich. merits. I make only two observations. First, there are compelling grounds for saying that what happens to the Mr. Charles Clarke: I was trying to make the point two cities will have an impact on the surrounding shire that, if Members argue that there are effects on their counties. My experience of 16 years in local government own constituents outside Norwich, or for that matter is that shared services cannot be disaggregated without 225WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 226WH Government) Government) [Robert Neill] Ipswich (Chris Mole), because it is apparent that Cabinet Ministers and former Cabinet Ministers manage to get a knock-on effect. There are issues relating to large unitary authorities, whereas Under-Secretaries of State cities that are the centres of shire counties, but this is get merely a constitutional convention and a talking not the right way to deal with them. shop. Life is unjust even in the workings of Government. Both of the cities we are discussing are estimated to As has been observed, Mr. Housden, the permanent provide about 15 to 20 per cent. of the tax base and secretary, has behaved with absolute propriety. The revenue for the surrounding counties. Because of the attacks on him are wholly unjustified and would be higher costs of delivering services in rural areas, removing withdrawn by any reasonable person. As well as the them from the authority would be bound to have financial passage of his letter that has been quoted, he made two consequences for the surrounding areas. other important points. Having concluded that the unitary bids still did not meet the Government’s original criteria, Mr. Charles Clarke: Is the hon. Gentleman saying he Ministers sought grounds to justify their departure believes that a Norfolk county council covering 85 per from them. Mr. Housden wrote: cent. of its current area would deliver significantly “My main concern about your proposed course has to be value worse services? for money for the public purse. It would impact adversely on the financial position of the public sector as compared with the Robert Neill: No, I am saying that that would make alternative courses of action open to you.” life significantly more difficult for the efficient and Mr. Housden then referred to the Ministers’ grounds admirable Norfolk county council, which is doing its for departing from the criteria, in particular the suggestion best, despite having had bad funding settlements from that the unitaries would be able better to achieve economic the Labour Government, as has Devon. It cannot be gains and regeneration potential: said that there would be no knock-on effect from such a “The evidence for such gains is mixed and representations that loss to the tax base. The leader of Devon county council you have received provide no evidence to quantify such benefits. I calculated that the removal of Exeter could cause band also recognise your proposed approach may open the way for D council tax to increase by about £200 per year. There improved public services through the Total Place approach, but are potential impacts on surrounding areas. this will be dependent on the collaboration of all the councils concerned and as yet there is no clear evidence of the costs and The other point that must be stressed is that the benefits that may arise.” procedure has been utterly lamentable and is wholly The permanent secretary destroyed comprehensively indefensible; even the right hon. Gentleman conceded the two grounds that the then Secretary of State and that it cannot be defended. The two that we are discussing Minister of State gave for departing from the original are part of a round of unitary proposals that started in criteria. There were no grounds to justify doing so. In 2007. Like all the others, they had to meet the five clear passing, it is worth saying that shared service arrangements criteria set out by the Government and the boundary in all three county councils and a pathfinder scheme in committee. In July 2007, the then Minister for Local one are already improving services. That has been done Government, the right hon. Member for Wentworth without any of this nonsense. (John Healey), made it clear implicitly that the Norwich and Exeter bids were not capable of meeting the criteria. Mr. Housden went on to write: That was endorsed by the then Secretary of State for “Moreover, any departure from the criteria when taking your Communities and Local Government, the right hon. statutory decisions also raises feasibility, as well as value for Member for Salford (Hazel Blears). They were right to money, concerns. Whilst there is no statutory basis for the criteria, say that the bids did not meet the value for money there is a legitimate expectation that they will be the basis of your decisions. Your proposed approach of implementing a unitary criteria. I recall that there was also concern about Exeter and Norwich, and not implementing a unitary council for whether Exeter met another criterion. Suffolk would be a departure from the criteria, and whilst I The small unitaries were ruled out at the beginning of recognise you could adduce your reasons for this…my clear legal the process and alternative county-wide unitaries, which advice is that the risk of”— were objectionable on other grounds, were proposed. these decisions— What has happened since then? Nothing has changed in “being successfully challenged in judicial review proceedings is the evidence base. What happened was that the Labour very high. You have been advised that there is every likelihood of party lost a seat in Norwich. There has been a great deal such judicial review proceedings being commenced.” of effective lobbying to get certain Members of this We now know that judicial review proceedings have House off the political hook. The Municipal Journal been commenced. He went on: described the situation thus: “The probably nugatory expenditure which this would entail, “Unitary plans descend into a Whitehall farce.” particularly in the case of Exeter and Norwich, could only It is a shabby deal. The columnist, Mark Smulian, exacerbate the worries I have described about value for public writing in the Local Government Chronicle, was spot on money. And it would also put pressure on departmental resources, in invoking the ghost of Governor Elbridge Gerry. This altering priorities.” process is scandalous gerrymandering; it has nothing to One cannot be much more damnatory than that, yet the do with good governance and is being done for political Ministers still persist and do not come along to defend purposes. themselves in person. I feel sorry for only two people: the Under-Secretary The pros and cons of unitary authorities in local of State for Communities and Local Government, the government can be argued in a decent fashion. However, hon. Member for Stevenage (Barbara Follett), who is what has happened in this process is not decent. That is here to stand in for the Minister responsible for this why my party has said that, should it come into matter and is picking up the tab for it, and the Under- Government, it would reverse the decision and put all Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for of the documentation and advice into the public domain 227WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 228WH Government) Government) following any unsuccessful freedom of information requests. Mr. Bacon: When the Minister says that what happened The proposal is a shabby gerrymander and is a disgrace “is part of the normal administrative process”, is she to those who introduced it. I am sorry that Under-Secretary saying that it is routine and occurs normally? of State, who is not personally responsible, has to defend the decision today. The best one can hope for is Barbara Follett: I am not saying that such a situation that she takes the decision back and, at this very last occurs routinely, but it is part of the normal administrative minute, Ministers remove the shame they have brought process for the person who is responsible for value for upon themselves and abandon such an ill-conceived money to point out when a Minister has gone against proposal. specific recommendations by officials, which, in this case, we acknowledge that we did. 12.20 pm Mr. Bacon: Will the hon. Lady give way again? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Barbara Follett: I have to make some progress. I Communities and Local Government (Barbara Follett): I regret not being able to give way, because the hon. have only 10 minutes left and have a dreadful cold, Gentleman made some good points. which I am more likely to have got from the hon. I wish to make it clear that it was proper of the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) permanent secretary, as accounting officer for the than my right hon. Friend for Norwich, South (Mr. Clarke), Department, to draw attention to the fact that Ministers because we tend to spend quite a lot of time together had not chosen the option that appeared to deliver best one way or another. value for money. However, it is equally proper of the I would like to record my gratitude and that of my Secretary of State to set out his reasons for taking the right hon. and hon. Friends to the hon. Member for decision. In other words, all those involved behaved Mid-Norfolk (Mr. Simpson) for giving us the opportunity properly and there is no question of official advice to debate the very contentious issue of the unitary being biased in any way. proposals for Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon. I understand I also want to dispel the myth that the correspondence the hon. Gentleman’s disappointment with having to between the Secretary of State and the accounting make do with a mere Under-Secretary of State in the officer was somehow leaked; it was not. In accordance unavoidable absence of the Minister for Local Government. with the relevant civil service rules, those letters were, in However, as a Local Government Minister and as Minister fact, shared openly on the day Ministers made their for the East of England, I have taken a great interest in announcement with the head of the National Audit the proposals and, indeed, have heard some of the Office and, subsequently, with members of the Public representations from both Exeter and Norwich. Accounts Committee. I would like to try to deal with the “why now” Mr. Keith Simpson: The Minister is generous to give question asked by so many hon. Members, particularly way. She mentioned a point that I raised about whether the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Angela the advice that the Secretary of State received, which Browning). The answer is Dickensian in its simplicity obviously contradicted the advice given by the permanent and content. The advice from the boundary committee secretary, can be put into the public domain. This is the about the process, which started in 2007, as the hon. centre of the debate: the permanent secretary believes Member for Bromley and Chislehurst mentioned, was that the Secretary of State’s proposals do not meet the requested by the Secretary of State more than a year fundamental criteria. In his letter, the Secretary of State ago in February 2008. Thanks to a succession of judicial talks about advice that he has received. Can we see what reviews, the advice could only be provided by 7 December that advice was? last year. The delay therefore arose because of the law and, to some extent, from those who sought to use the Barbara Follett: The advice was in the form of the law to delay the implementation of the proposals. many representations that the Secretary of State, the The Department received the advice a year and Minister for Local Government and I received. I am not 10 months after requesting it. Someone once said to me privy to other advice that the Secretary of State may or that the Opposition’s only power is to delay. I do not may not have received. The main reason for going think that that is true—although sometimes their behaviour against the criteria was the changed economic makes me wonder—but a year and 10 months is a long circumstances, as I think right hon. and hon. Members time in the 60-month maximum life of a Parliament. know. Just because we are in an election year, the Government Mr. Swire: Given that the Minister says nothing was cannot stop making decisions or implementing proposals. leaked and that the permanent secretary behaved in an It is perfectly reasonable of the Secretary of State and entirely proper manner, will she take the opportunity to the Minister for Local Government to take the decision apologise on behalf of her Government colleague, the at this time, given the delay. Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, for his On the vexed question of how the decision was scandalous remarks? made and relations between Ministers and civil servants in my Department, fir, it is a myth that, in some way, Barbara Follett: I shall decline that opportunity, as I the Secretary of State and officials are at loggerheads. do not even know what remarks the Secretary of State Nothing could be further from the truth. The process of for Culture, Media and Sport made. All I can reiterate is seeking a direction is part of the normal administrative that officials and Ministers in the Department for process that recognises that accounting officers— Communities and Local Government behaved entirely in other words, the permanent secretary—have properly and the letter was not leaked. certain responsibilities, which differ from those of On the question of releasing advice to Ministers Ministers, whose responsibilities do and should range under freedom of information legislation, which the more widely. hon. Member for Mid-Norfolk raised, we will, of course, 229WH Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local 2 MARCH 2010 230WH Government) [Barbara Follett] No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ Knee) be making available relevant material to the courts as 12.30 pm part of a duty of candour. We will make all relevant representations available under FOI, but it is right and Mr. Michael Clapham (Barnsley, West and Penistone) proper that certain correspondence between Ministers (Lab): In this short debate, I want to make three points. and officials should be withheld to ensure free and First, osteoarthritis of the knee is a painful condition. frank exchange of views. Section 35 of the Freedom of Miners who suffer from it are getting older and there is Information Act 2000 allows for that. a need for a speedy scheme for processing their The assessment of the proposals, which was made in compensation. Secondly, and related to the first point, great detail by my right hon. Friends the Minister for the National Coal Board and its successors knew from Local Government and the Secretary of State, was the 1950s that certain working conditions in coal mines difficult, because we had seven unitary proposals to caused the disease. Thirdly, I shall propose to the Minister consider. We had to measure them against the five a scheme structure that would reduce legal costs for criteria: affordability, a broad cross-section of support, both sides and, in particular, bring benefits to the strategic leadership, neighbourhood empowerment and sufferers of that painful disease. value for money for services. Those criteria specify The Minister is aware that in August 2008 the Industrial outcomes that should be delivered if the proposed Injuries Advisory Council reported on osteoarthritis of changes to unitary structure are made. Accordingly, our the knee and recommended that it should be a prescribed assessments against the criteria involved making prospective disease in relation to working as an underground coal judgments about the likelihood of the outcomes being miner for 10 years or more in aggregate up to 1986, but delivered. that any service from that date onward should be specific To cut a long story short—given the fact I have only to certain categories of work. The evidence shows that two minutes left—in the end, Ministers decided that the the risk of a miner developing osteoarthritis was more economic situation in both cities merited going against than double that for a member of the general population. the five criteria, and that the economic situation in a As a consequence of the IIAC decision, since 15 July unitary Exeter and Norwich would be stronger because 2008 miners have been able to claim an industrial injury they had accountable self-governance. We did not change disablement benefit award for the disability caused by the criteria, as the hon. Member for Tiverton and the disease. I refer the Minister to some figures from the Honiton suggested; they were central to our decisions, Department for Work and Pensions on the number of but there were compelling reasons why we went against successful cases that there will be for industrial injury them. disablement awards. They suggest that the number is We also looked at the role that the Total Place initiative, likely to be a little more than 10,000. which was launched in April 2009 as part of our operational Several studies have been done on the development of efficiency programme, could play in bedding down the osteoarthritis in miners. As the Minister will be aware, new unitaries. That initiative takes a whole-area approach two significant British studies were done on osteoarthritis to delivering public services in a geographical location in coal miners in the 1950s, which showed that working and will be very beneficial indeed in the implementation underground was likely to result in the disease developing. of both the unitary proposals. A later study was done in Germany, and those three studies comprise the main evidence considered by the IIAC. I am using that information because it is pertinent to the point that I want to make to the Minister on how a particular scheme to deal with that compensation could be developed. I accept that coal mining has changed dramatically since the 1950s. The NCB’s mechanisation programme had a positive impact on changing the profile of coal production in the industry.From the early 1980s, mechanical processes have been linked to create a semi-automated system of mining, but that was a transitional development, and during the stages of that mechanisation process miners were lifting heavier loads from a kneeling position than they had done in an earlier era. The studies of the 1950s looked at the earlier era, which we might refer to as the hand-filled days, but the disease did not disappear when the hand-filled production process disappeared because the transition moved us to mechanisation and during that process miners lifted those heavier weights from kneeling positions. The effect of that process was to create a common sight in mining communities: elderly retired miners either limping badly or walking with the aid of a stick. Many of them have had artificial knee joints fitted to assist their mobility. Indeed, a colleague here in the House, my hon. Friend the Member for Blyth Valley (Mr. Campbell), who was a coal miner before he entered 231WH No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ 2 MARCH 2010 No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ 232WH Knee) Knee) this place, has been diagnosed with osteoarthritis and Mr. Clapham: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for had one artificial knee joint fitted. He is waiting to be making that point, and I have no doubt that the Minister admitted to hospital to be fitted with a second joint, has taken it on board. As he knows, the COPD scheme which gives an indication of how bad the disease can be. came into being and started to be constructed following When men suffering from the disease reach their 60s a High Court action in 1998. Here we are, 12 years after and 70s, which is the age most of them are, it becomes it began to be implemented, yet we have not made all even more painful. That is why I believe that we cannot the payments to claimants under the scheme. That gives wait for a protracted legal process to conclude. Those an idea of how long it can take to deal with compensation. men do not have a great deal of time left, so I suggest to With the likely knee litigation, we do not have that time. the Minister that there is another way to move forward That is the real reason why we need to look at with the liability issue. implementation of a statutory no-fault liability scheme. That brings me to the issue of dealing with that There are two other important issues that the Minister potential liability. I have no intention of getting into the must balance before proceeding to court action. The arguments on the complexity of the liability, but I want first is the legal costs: as has been said, £6.5 million has to draw the Minister’s attention to the National Audit already been spent, and the other side has spent a Office report, “Coal Health Compensation Schemes”, considerable amount as well. Bearing in mind that the which was completed in 2007. Page 7 of that report sets DWP has estimated that the number who are likely to out a table, “Lessons for the future”. The first point in receive awards for industrial injury disablement benefit that table states: will be some 10,000, I suggest that we need to look at an “When a potential new liability is identified”, alternative to spending a huge amount of money on presumably by the Department, legal costs. “it must be monitored regularly and, taking account of how likely There is an additional reason. The Minister must be it is to come to fruition, sufficient action should be taken to aware that if he takes the case to court and to judgment, manage the risks.” his range of options will be narrowed. In fact, what I assume that that is being done. happened in the COPD case may well happen. His I refer the Minister to the report by Stephen Boys Department did not realise at the time that compensation Smith, a synopsis of which is provided in appendix would be opened up to the estates, and we could again eight of the NAO report. He was commissioned by the have a situation where a case results in many more Department to review the coal health compensation claims. As he is aware, two thirds of the 592,000 COPD schemes. One of his recommendations, as set out in the claims were from estates. Like me, many of my colleagues NAO report, is as follows: do a Saturday surgery and find that, as we get to the tail “If the Government is ever in future faced with a comparable end of the case, we are dealing with grandchildren who situation; either where it has to implement a court judgement never saw their grandfather coming in to ask when their imposing a liability to pay compensation, or where it believes it compensation payment would be made available. The would face such a judgement if a legal case were completed; it Minister has to assess the possibility that his options should very carefully examine the alternative ways of proceeding.” will narrow if he goes to court. I suggest to the Minister that Stephen Boys Smith is We should look at a no-fault compensation scheme pointing out that, where there is a potential liability, as for miners’knee that would make a lump-sum compensation in this case, which the Department will have examined payment to the miner or his widow quickly and without closely along with the risks, the alternative to proceeding the input of lawyers. That could be done speedily using to court should be used. I shall point out in a few the expertise built up in the Minister’s Department and minutes how that might be done. in the DWP’s IIDB—industrial injuries disablement Stephen Boys Smith made certain recommendations benefit—scheme. to the Department, but it appears to be in a protracted A statutory scheme could be devised that would not legal battle. As the Minister is aware, the Department require the engagement of costly private medical services has spent around £6.5 million on legal advice for that either, as happened under the COPD claim. Private case, and no doubt considerable amounts of money companies provided medicals for people who were making have been spent by the other side as well. It seems to me claims, and the costs ran to a quite an amount. Just that we are moving towards a situation in which we will now, I cannot say how much, but the Minister will know again spend lots of public money and ultimately accept that it was considerable. The basis of a scheme for that we must implement a scheme. I suggest to him that miners’ knee could be the IIDB process. That could be if that scheme is implemented and shaped by the courts, the gateway, and I shall explain just how it could be we will be in the same position we were in with chronic done. obstructive pulmonary disease. The Minister will know that the IIAC has set down Mr. David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I congratulate the diagnostic criteria. They are in paragraph 71 of its my hon. Friend on securing this timely debate. He August 2008 report, “Osteoarthritis of the knee in coal mentions the amount of money that has already been miners”. Criteria have been set down for the examination spent on litigation. May I suggest that the company that process, so we do not need the input of any kind of is doing the work for the Government is the same one private medical service. that cost them £10 million in respect of chest diseases We would then move to a situation in which the IIDB and more than £3.5 million in respect of vibration white scheme paid an award but also gave an assessment. finger, both of which cases were roundly defeated, yet Each man who received an award would get an assessment the Government are still taking advice from those people? of his disability. I suggest that that could be the basis for Their track record is 2-0 and looks likely to become 3-0. a statutory no-fault compensation scheme. It would If we can come up with a scheme, it will help not only allow the Minister to ensure that a compensation payment the miners, but the Government. was made only to the miner who had come through the 233WH No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ 2 MARCH 2010 No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ 234WH Knee) Knee) [Mr. Clapham] schemes. I understand and share those concerns, but the issue is not straightforward. It is important that we take industrial injuries disablement process, or to his widow. fully into account the experiences of the past 10 years of The payment would be relative to his age and his the vibration white finger and chronic obstructive disability. A table is all that would be required, so the pulmonary disease respiratory compensation schemes, compensation scheme would be transparent. which are now, I am pleased to report, largely concluded; Lawyers from both sides may be required to sit down and, as my hon. Friend says, the numerous reviews of with orthopaedic consultants to draw up the table, the Government’s handling of those schemes, including which would run from 0 to 100 per cent. The miner’s age most recently those conducted by the National Audit at the opposite side and his degree of disability would Office and the Public Accounts Committee. relate directly to a sum of compensation that had been Before dealing with the details raised today, as far as I devised independently by his people sitting down with am able to do so, I want first to take the opportunity to lawyers from the other side, both taking advice from put on the record the success of the VWF and COPD orthopaedic consultants. schemes, which are the biggest personal injury schemes Such a scheme would be much preferred to a court in British legal history. More than 760,000 claims have scheme, because the court scheme, once shaped, would resulted in more than £4 billion in compensation being impose costs on the Department, as the Minister knows. paid to former miners and their families. The VWF There is no doubt that lawyers would be involved, as scheme has been completed and brought to a conclusion they were involved in COPD and vibration white finger, in the High Court, and the respiratory scheme for in filling in forms and, at the end of the day, collecting COPD is almost complete. Fewer than 240 COPD money for doing that. In many instances under the claims have yet to receive an offer of compensation and COPD scheme, the solicitor received a bigger award for we expect to settle all the remaining claims in this completing the form than did the man on whose behalf calendar year, although some claims may take longer if, he completed it. We do not want that to occur again. for example, there is the additional complication of I urge the Minister to move speedily to ditch his plans protected party status. for a court battle and to introduce a statutory scheme Those schemes were set up once the liability of British that would benefit elderly miners who do not have a Coal had been established by the courts. They were great deal of time left. Such a scheme would be less of a designed to ensure that miners and their families received drag on the public purse. I urge him to move as suggested the level of compensation to which they might reasonably in the Stephen Boys Smith report and to introduce a have been entitled had they pursued their claim in statutory scheme for compensation for miners’ knee. common law. I believe that that objective has been met and that the schemes have been a huge success. 12.48 pm My hon. Friend suggests that there should be a scheme for no-fault compensation. He knows there was The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy previously a scheme like that in the industry for and Climate Change (Mr. David Kidney): I congratulate pneumoconiosis among coal workers. The National my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Union of Mineworkers and other mining unions Penistone (Mr. Clapham) on securing the debate. I successfully negotiated with the employer, the National praise him for tenaciously and astutely arguing the case Coal Board, for that scheme, which my hon. Friend says for miners and the mining industry as he does. I personally could be emulated today. On the basis that those admire him for his fortitude and determination. He and arrangements provided a clear, practicable way forward I have discussed this issue both outside and inside this then, his argument is understandable, but things have Chamber. changed a lot in the 36 years since that scheme was There cannot be many Ministers of the Crown who negotiated in the industry. can say this: I have stood erect on the coal faces at Daw First, negotiations took place when the unions were Mill in Warwickshire and Lea Hall in Staffordshire and in a position to present themselves as negotiating on seen the huge, magnificent, modern machinery that behalf of all miners and their families. Today, that is comes along and cuts out a whole line of the face; then, clearly no longer so. Secondly, that agreement was automatically, the props are moved forward to protect negotiated in the context that pneumoconiosis affects miners as they advance to clear the coal away. I have mainly coal miners. The reality is that osteoarthritis of crawled on my hands and knees to the front of mines the knee is very different: it affects many people in the such as Newdigate in Warwickshire, Littleton at Cannock population in many different jobs and is caused by and Hem Heath in Stoke-on-Trent and seen miners in many different factors, including family history and a extremely difficult situations and constrained spaces variety of non-employment-related factors. On that basis, working to get coal from small coal faces. I very much it is much more complex than pneumoconiosis. appreciate what my hon. Friend says about the pressure on their limbs—in this case, their knees. Mr. Clapham: I refer the Minister to the IIAC report, My hon. Friend will appreciate that, in responding to which prescribes the disease purely because the risk of a this debate, I have to be mindful of the matters he raises miner developing it is twice that of a member of the that are subject to current legal proceedings. I am general population. There is not that much difference therefore constrained to a considerable extent in what I between the pneumoconiosis scheme and the one that I can say in response. I am, of course, fully aware of the am proposing. If he is afraid that such a scheme might concerns that he and other hon. Members who are here lead to two payments if a person goes on to take out a to support his argument have raised and their passionate civil action, he could introduce a caveat whereby if a belief that individuals involved should be compensated person decides to take a civil action after taking quickly and in a way that avoids the costs—particularly compensation payment from the scheme, there could be the solicitors’ costs—that we saw in previous compensation a clawback, as happens under the mesothelioma scheme. 235WH No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ 2 MARCH 2010 No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ 236WH Knee) Knee) Mr. Kidney: The danger is not only that somebody Mr. Kidney: I understand that point. My hon. Friend has two bites at the cherry, but that other people who the Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone mentioned are no part of the scheme may still come in with the costs and the amount that we have paid to lawyers litigation for the liability at common law. already for litigation on osteoarthritis of the knee. He is Thirdly, the previous scheme was negotiated in an era right. We have had to pay lawyers, particularly for when the legal profession, and more particularly the document disclosure. He knows that disclosure is an world of personal injury litigation, was very different important part of the process of establishing whether from today’s. In the world of no win, no fee arrangements, there is liability. any admissions made are likely to generate further One key lesson learned by the Department in conducting litigation, even where a no-liability agreement for some the litigation is that we must understand the scale of might at first sight appear reasonable. For example, my potential claims for the compensation. Our estimates in hon. Friend mentioned the estates of miners. Putting the past for VWF and COPD were much lower than the aside the question why I should think it fair to exclude a amounts that were subsequently paid. My hon. Friend miner’s claim when the miner has died and the estate mentioned on a number of occasions some 10,000 claims wants to carry on claiming, if I negotiated an agreement for osteoarthritis of the knee. So far, under the group that excluded them, there would be no reason why they litigation order, there are about 900 claimants, and the should feel excluded from taking a case to court and claimants’ lawyers have mentioned to us another 1,000 still proving the liability at common law. Nothing would claims. Putting the matter in a broader context, we be gained, from my point of view, by making the handled more than 170,000 claims under the VWF agreement. scheme and more than 590,000 for COPD. Collectively, Nevertheless, let me say that the costs of the coal that totals more than 750,000 claims. workers pneumoconiosis scheme did, and still do, prove significant. More than 91,000 claims have been made Let us draw on the experience of the DWP.Following under that scheme since 1974, of which more than the introduction of the industrial injuries disablement 83,000 have been successful in securing compensation. benefit for miner’s knee last year there have been more To date more than £154 million has been paid in than 33,500 claims for the benefit to date. Claims are compensation under that scheme. Put simply, we need arriving now at the rate of 300 a week. I am pleased to to be certain of the reasons for reaching decisions. In report that more than 20,000 cases have been assessed my view, progression of the current litigation is the best and of those 9,234 former miners have already received way to achieve that clarity. payments of benefit. In addition, a further 6,085 have In our handling of these difficult issues, it is always received an assessment of disablement, although their important to remember that the Government are effectively condition was not assessed as severe enough to give rise standing in the shoes of the former British Coal Corporation to a payment of benefit. as the employer. For compensation to be payable, it I welcomed the Department’s decision to pay industrial must be established that British Coal was legally negligent injury disablement benefit to miners suffering from and/or in breach of statutory duty as an employer, and osteoarthritis of the knee, following on from the that the injuries suffered by their employees were caused recommendations of the Industrial Injuries Advisory by that negligence or breach. Furthermore, the Secretary Council. My hon. Friend was a champion of that cause. of State’s powers under the Coal Industry Act 1994 to However, the decision to introduce entitlement to benefit pay money out in respect of the liabilities of the former payments raises different issues to those involved in the British Coal are dependent upon such liability being litigation against the Department as the inheritor of the established. liabilities of the former British Coal Corporation. In My hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and particular, the IIAC report, which triggered the entitlement Penistone mentioned the cost of litigation and my hon. to claim benefits for miners suffering from osteoarthritis, Friend the Member for Blaydon (Mr. Anderson) asked fundamentally does not directly address the key issues questions about the fees paid to solicitors. I am alive to in the litigation that the Department is defending, including those issues. The Department is fully committed to establishing knowledge, taking reasonably appropriate applying the lessons from the experience of the VWF preventive steps as the employer based on that knowledge, and COPD compensation schemes, based on our and the apportionment of other contributory factors, operational experience and the reviews conducted by such as family history and other health factors. the NAO and the PAC. It is important to recognise that recent medical knowledge Mr. David Anderson: The Minister will not be surprised now firmly demonstrates that osteoarthritis is caused that I am disappointed by what he has said so far. It is by a range of factors, including family genetics and not just about the costs of litigation. What about the obesity, as well as employment-related factors. In my impacts on the public purse? He mentioned reports view it is therefore vital that, where such large amounts from the NAO. The Legal Services Commission has of taxpayers’ money may be at stake if compensation is also done a massive amount of work. There has been a to be paid, particularly in the current economic climate, huge cost to the public purse in addition to the legal liability is properly established through the court process. implications the Minister has advanced, including payments In concluding, I assure my hon. Friend— to solicitors and barristers. That must surely be weighed in the balance against the sensible scheme advanced by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, West and Mr. Martyn Jones (in the Chair): Order. We must Penistone. move on to the next debate. 237WH 2 MARCH 2010 NHS Expenditure (Reduction) 238WH

NHS Expenditure (Reduction) mixture of redesigning care with user involvement and more effective prevention. User involvement is crucial, and the NHS constitution has picked that up. 1pm One public responsibility on patients from the NHS Dr. Richard Taylor (Wyre Forest) (Ind): I am delighted constitution is this: to see the Minister in his place. I do not mean to imply “Youshould recognise that you can make a significant contribution that not all Ministers have his qualities, but I know that to your own and your family’s good health and well-being and he is a receptive and thinking Minister. I am grateful take some personal responsibility for it”. that he will respond to my suggestions, which are intended If NESTA’s suggestions were taken up and led to a to be helpful to the future of the national health service, 10 per cent. reduction in the cost of treating long-term which we all know is vital to our constituents and conditions, that could save £6.9 billion a year, which is beloved by the large proportion of staff who work in it not to be sneezed at. and the patients who receive treatment. I cannot resist giving one of my favourite quotations. The extra money that has been provided has seen I do not know whether you have read Sir Walter Scott dramatic improvements, especially in cancer care, cardiac recently, Mr. Jones—I have only just rediscovered him—but care and the increasing scope and success of the various one of his last novels was “The Surgeon’s Daughter”. treatments that are now available. A crisis therefore He was writing about the burgesses of a Scottish borough looms. The NHS Confederation estimates funding cuts and said: of £8 billion to £10 billion in the next two or three years, “There the mothers of the state never make a point of pouring, and £15 billion in the next five years. The King’s Fund in the course of every revolving year, a certain quantity of has produced a useful document, “Windmill 2009: NHS doctor’s stuff through the bowels of their beloved children. Every response to the financial storm”, which opens with the old woman…can prescribe a dose of salts, or spread a plaster; words: and it is only when a fever or a palsy renders matters serious, that the assistance of the doctor is invoked” “The health service is about to enter a new era. After years of unprecedented growth, it faces the prospect of unprecedented What a lesson for all of us. Has the national health austerity.” service limited people’s ability to look after themselves and spoiled them with the help that they receive. We I want to talk about ways of addressing that challenge must change that so that they have the help of medical without widespread cuts. A high proportion of NHS and nursing staff—the clinicians—only when they really expenditure is on staff, so if there are cuts, they are need it. likely to be in the number of staff, which would not be helpful as the numbers in some areas are already inadequate. Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): My hon. Friend has By lucky coincidence, my medical colleague on the rightly, responsibly and caringly brought an important Health Committee, the hon. Member for Dartford subject to the Chamber. He is approaching the matter (Dr. Stoate), started this debate on Friday last week, from the viewpoint of taking personal responsibility, as and I believe that the Minister responded to it. The hon. well as that of clinical strategies, but he seemed to Gentleman made the point that it is estimated that dismiss early in his speech the possibility of cutting increasing self-care of patients with minor ailments staff. Will he address the possibility of cutting management could save the NHS £2 billion. teams because Government policy, defensive insurance I was joining the train at Kidderminster station at strategies and so on have driven up the cost and number about the time when the ban on smoking in public of management teams in the health service far too places came in, and a member of staff who had drawn much? the short straw and was sweeping up the fag ends outside said, “We might be able to change policies, but Dr. Taylor: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his it’s a job to change people.” That was extraordinarily intervention, but I will not touch on that because this is perspicacious at that time, and it is absolutely true that such a short debate. In fact, very recently, reports in the it is extremely difficult to change people. We can easily papers have suggested that NHS trusts with more managers write new policies, but we must change people and how have performed better than the others. That must be they use the NHS. taken into consideration. The hon. Member for Dartford quoted the Proprietary Mr. Andrew Smith (Oxford, East) (Lab): I was drawn Association of Great Britain, which has described five to this debate because of its interesting title, and the clear steps to ensure that self-care increases. Following hon. Gentleman’s background. I want to make two on from that, a discussion paper that I found extremely brief points. First, is it not important that he and others useful was produced by the National Endowment for are careful when using phrases such as “age of austerity” Science, Technology and the Arts. It is headed, “The when it comes to the NHS, in case the wrong signal is Human Factor”, has a sub-heading, “How transforming given to front-line staff—nurses and others—who often healthcare to involve the public can save money and work in hard-pressed circumstances and who need a save lives”. It was drawn to my attention recently, continuing period of stability, building on the welcome and was written by Laura Bunt and Michael Harris, investment to which he referred? Secondly, on his point and published by The Lab and NESTA. about prevention, does that not underline the critical In this short debate, I can only point the Minister to importance of community health initiatives, community that discussion paper, and give a brief flavour of it. The nursing and nurses in our schools? Will he say a word or authors considered long-term conditions in particular, two about that? and how to change the way people cope with such conditions by educating them. I am thinking particularly Dr. Taylor: I thank the right hon. Gentleman, who of diabetics who, if they know how to control their made many points in a short time. I cannot hope to disease, need much less help. The paper recommends a address them all. On stability, I absolutely agree. I do 239WH NHS Expenditure (Reduction)2 MARCH 2010 NHS Expenditure (Reduction) 240WH not believe that anyone will try to reorganise the health the first tranche of which came out several years ago, service crucially in the near future, for which we will all and I believe that there have been further tranches. The be grateful. indicators compare the performance of the NHS with Prevention is a huge subject, and I am afraid that I the performance figures for the top 25 per cent. regarding am taking that as read, because it is obvious that that treatment or method of carrying out a service. The spending more money on prevention saves money in the productive opportunity from those indicators is, I am long term. The huge problem is moving money out of told, £3 billion—something worth looking for. acute care into prevention, but I am sure that the The King’s Fund “Windmill” report makes specific Minister will be well aware of that. recommendations for the Department of Health, regulators, I have spoken about patients and the public, and strategic health authorities, commissioners and providers, what they should be doing to improve how they look and there are two interesting appendices. Appendix B after themselves. Now, I want to speak about the staff. I apparently fell off the back of a lorry; it is a leaked am the first to praise staff for their tremendous hard Department of Health memo with a long list of possibilities work, but we must be realistic and ensure that they for the emergency strategy committee to consider. That realise the problems afoot. I remind the Minister of the is encouraging as it shows that people at the Department NHS Confederation’s paper, “Dealing with the downturn”, of Health are using their brains and getting their staff which was published in June 2009. It is useful because it to work on those sorts of things. Appendix C is a useful lists first many bad ideas from history that do not work. classified summary of the various approaches taken to reducing costs, improving efficiency and perhaps increasing If waiting lists are allowed to grow, quality is diluted. income. Indiscriminate cuts in expenditure can focus on cost In addition to the papers from the King’s Fund, rather than on value, and pay could get out of line, NESTA and the NHS Confederation, I have had a host training might be cut or we could fail to protect curative of letters over the past few days from organisations services. Those measures have all been tried and have making suggestions. Action on Smoking and Health— failed. They are doubtful things such as centralising ASH—points out the cost-effectiveness of measures support functions, mergers, structural change or reducing taken to reduce smoking, which can be highly effective. staff. The document contains a useful quote about price The Royal College of Nursing mentions the huge benefits competition, which states that and cost savings from community nurses, particularly “this does not fit with patient choice. The risk is that providers specialist nurses, who can save a vast amount of time can exploit this to obtain increases in prices – particularly when and money. There were suggestions for isolated drug they have a monopoly. It can also lead to ‘a race to the bottom’ economies, and suggestions from the Alzheimer’s Society. which reduces price and quality.” I will return to my initial point: we must first change I believe that that has been one of the reasons behind people by making them more informed and responsible the poor quality of out-of-hours care in some places. for their own health care, not only for minor ailments Let me move on to the more positive points in this but for long-term conditions. We must then change the document. There are several pages of suggestions of workings of the NHS and give staff at all levels the ways to do things differently in order to improve how chance to suggest innovation and better ways of working. services work and improve patient safety and quality of I am conscious that I have not spoken much about care. Some of those things will save money, such as the prevention; there is no time for that, although it is a productive ward, which I am sure the Minister knows crucial matter. all about. I have seen that initiative in several hospitals I conclude with something that Disraeli said towards that I have visited, and it is a scheme whereby all staff, the end of his first spell as leader of the country: from health care workers to the sister to the cleaners, get together on a regular basis and talk about how they “There can be no economy where there is no efficiency”. are doing things. That can lead to obvious alterations, such as moving all the things that are necessary to set 1.15 pm up an intravenous drip to one place, so that staff do not The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr. Mike have to dash from place to place picking things up. That O’Brien): I congratulate the hon. Member for Wyre leads to improvements in ways of feeding patients, and Forest (Dr. Taylor) on securing this debate on what will can reduce wastage of time over meals. It can lead to be one of the most challenging issues for the health nurses doing the nursing rather than lots of admin, so service over the coming decade. I understand that the that they can spend more time with the patient. Health Committee is looking at this subject, and I look The document mentions the difficult matter of treatment forward to the evidence that it produces. prohibitions. However, as the National Institute for As the hon. Gentleman said, over the past 12 years Health and Clinical Excellence has told us, relatively funding for the NHS has increased substantially and is few treatments in use have no proof of effectiveness, so now—as we promised—broadly on a par with the rest we cannot save billions of pounds by cutting out useless of Europe. The NHS has expanded and improved beyond treatments. There is a mention of limiting the NHS any recognition, and as a consequence we now have a package, which in my language is health care rationing. more capable and resilient service. Patient care has However, as is pointed out, that would require public improved significantly, far fewer people now die from debate and it would be difficult to sell to the public heart disease and cancer, and waiting times are the unless all other ways of saving had been exhausted. shortest they have ever been. Despite what some newspapers Productive wards are an initiative from the NHS claim, patient satisfaction rates are extremely high. Institute for Innovation and Improvement, which sadly Those improvements have been recognised internationally. seems to have rather a low profile. That organisation Last November, the Commonwealth Fund survey of was responsible for the better care, better value indicators, primary care services ranked the UK first in almost 241WH NHS Expenditure (Reduction)2 MARCH 2010 NHS Expenditure (Reduction) 242WH

[Mr. Mike O’Brien] hospitals to polyclinics? When it comes to planning appropriate savings and improvements in health provision, every area. There has been a transformation in the managers and, indeed, Health Ministers should not be NHS, which has moved from being pretty poor to being too ambitious about how such changes to management good, although it must still go further before it is great. can be provided. That is a great controversy, as the If we want a great health service, we must continue to Minister knows, in London and in south London as well. invest in it and ensure that we deliver improved care beyond that which we are delivering now. Mr. O’Brien: Polyclinics in London—GP-led health As the hon. Gentleman said, the time of rapidly centres in other parts of the country are a slightly increasing budgets is coming to an end. The stimulus different type of NHS institution—are providing a great package that we and Governments around the world opening for people. They offer extended hours and have put in place has avoided a second depression, but deliver the services that patients want. We have to the cost of that will mean tighter budgets in years to accept that the NHS will not be frozen just as it is now. come. I do not for a moment accept the argument that a What we have to see, particularly in the years to come, is crisis is coming, and neither do I believe that a great a resolute focus on quality and improving patient care storm is coming. There is, however, a demand for good within reasonable budgets. We need to ensure that managers management and efficiency, and a need to ensure a clear in the health service are focused on that, which means focus on the priorities. innovation and change. Change will come to the health Should any manager happen to overhear the debate— service, and the changes that we want to see will improve saying something in the Commons is almost like trying the quality of patient care. to smuggle a message out—the message that came out We want to ensure that managers know that there is in the Mid-Staffordshire inquiry and in the problems not a crisis. My right hon. Friend the Member for with out-of-hours doctors and a range of issues is this: Oxford, East (Mr. Smith) is right: sending the wrong the first priority for any manager in the health service is message at this stage would be very dangerous. The patient safety and the quality of care for patients. NHS budgets are increasing this year by 5.5 per cent. Managers must be aware of issues to do with finance and next year by 5.5 per cent., if the Government and targets, but the priority must be to ensure patient remain in power at least. We have said in the pre-Budget safety and patient care. report that we are committed to protecting front-line NHS spending for the following two years, growing it in Bob Spink: Does the Minister accept that there could line with inflation. be a crisis if decisions were wrongly taken to slash and However, the demand for health care from an ageing cut public services such as the health service in a devastating population, new technology and ever higher patient way? We should certainly avoid that policy. One way in expectations mean growing pressures on the NHS budget. which we could move forward is by addressing the That is clear, so along with commitments on spending, amount of funding that is spent on NHS management. we have set out the quality and productivity challenge that the NHS faces. In four years’ time, the NHS needs Mr. Mike O’Brien: I do not want to get sidetracked to be making efficiency savings of between £15 billion into a discussion about what is or is not management. A and £20 billion a year. Importantly, those are not cuts. lot of figures are bandied about, which I sometimes Let me make that clear. The money will not be taken worry about. Sometimes they refer not to managers but out of the NHS by the Treasury. After all, we are not to staff who are necessary to ensure that a patient Thatcherites. Importantly, those funds will be kept within knows when their appointment is and can get there, and NHS budgets. Our aim is that every penny of those that the health service is properly administered. More savings will remain within the budgets, allowing us to than ever in the coming years, we need good-quality realise our vision of continuing to improve the quality management and sometimes we have not had that in the of care for all. Essentially, we envisage no cuts in NHS past in the NHS, which is why we are mounting a front-line funding. programme to improve the quality of management in In previous times of financial challenge, patients have the health service. borne the brunt through longer waiting times, reduced availability of drugs and treatments and, ultimately, Mr. Andrew Pelling (Croydon, Central) (Ind) Will the poor-quality care. Managers lacking in imagination Minister give way? made slash-and-burn cuts. That approach is indefensible when the scope for improving quality and productivity Mr. O’Brien: I shall give way once more and then I in the system today is still great. Patients should not pay must make some progress. the price of poor managers who are unable to handle budgets. The Mid-Staffordshire lesson is a lesson for Mr. Pelling: As this is the season for giving way, I will every manager in the system. intervene at this stage. I apologise, Mr. Jones, for not We need imaginative managers who will focus on the being here for the first 10 minutes of the debate. I am quality of care. I make no bones about it—I will name mortified that I was not here for my leader’s speech. The and shame managers who are making slash-and-burn Government are to be congratulated on the amount of cuts across the health service. Just in the last couple of money that they have provided to the NHS and on the weeks, I saw a press release from Gloucester hospital transformation that the Minister has spoken about, but that deeply concerned me. I wrote to the managers at will he acknowledge that there is a danger in being Gloucester hospital, expressing concern. They have said over-ambitious and trying to create rather remote hospitals that the economic situation means that they have to as centres of excellence and in being too ambitious slash a load of beds—a couple of hundred beds. That is about how much we can move patients away from nonsense. Thankfully, they have now decided that that 243WH NHS Expenditure (Reduction)2 MARCH 2010 NHS Expenditure (Reduction) 244WH sort of slash-and-burn announcement is unnecessary and people-centred care, has the potential to improve and needs to be looked at with care. It is a product of a the quality of millions of people’s lives and to save up to lack of imagination by managers, and managers need to £2.7 billion in the process. be very careful when they go down that route. The next area of our focus is improving health as well as treating sickness. That has the potential to save the Mr. Pelling: Will the Minister give way one more NHS further billions of pounds. For example, screening time? by pulse palpation to improve detection of atrial fibrillation improves the quality of care by reducing the risk of stroke, and it avoids the costs associated with stroke and Mr. O’Brien: No, I will not, if the hon. Gentleman its complications, particularly through emergency hospital will forgive me. I have only a few minutes left. admissions. The vision of high-quality care for all is one of local The Government have made clear their intention to clinical leadership, of empowered patients shaping their drive down the costs of management, back-office support own health care, of prevention being as important as and procurement across the public services. The NHS treatment, as the hon. Member for Wyre Forest said, wants to find ways in which that can be done sensibly, and of unstinting demand for higher-quality care. We rewarding good-quality management but also ensuring must not for one second consider stepping away from that innovation in management and administration is that. Improving quality can also reduce costs. Our acknowledged in the health service and rewarded, too. record on reducing health care-associated infections All too often, managers who are innovative in how they demonstrates that. We have made great strides, reducing run things and who deliver higher-quality care for patients MRSA by 74 per cent. and clostridium difficile by are forgotten, because that is just the administrative 37 per cent. That has not only improved care and saved side, not the flashy, operating theatre, medical style of lives, but saved the NHS £240 million. care, but they too are contributing to the quality of health care. We need to acknowledge where good There are many areas with the potential to improve management has reduced costs and improved the quality quality and increase productivity. In the time allowed, I of care through administrative changes, rather than just shall give a few examples. Enabling all hospitals to meet medical changes. the levels of staff productivity currently delivered by the All this cannot be administered from Whitehall. Instead, best could deliver annual savings of up to £3.5 billion. we need to empower clinicians and their patients. It is The hon. Gentleman talked about the productive ward through innovation, through looking for new ways to programme. As a result of that, nurses in London were do things, assessing them and, most importantly, spreading able to spend an extra 500,000 hours—500,000 hours—with them throughout the health service—the NHS is great patients, because they themselves have worked out ways at innovation, but it does not spread it—that we can in which they can improve the quality of what they do ensure that we unlock productivity gains. To support in productive wards to give that time to patients. We are that, we have published the best examples of quality talking about the equivalent of an extra 255 full-time and productivity improvement on the NHS Evidence nurses, costing about £7.5 million. So far, the productive website. That has already been seen by more than ward has been introduced for only 12 per cent. of 10,000 visitors to the site. London’s wards, but the ideas that underpin the productive The hon. Member for Wyre Forest highlighted the ward programme have also been applied in mental debate that we had the other day on self-care. That is an health wards and operating theatres and in the delivery important debate and one that we need to take further, of community services. but we also need to give people more access to information Pilots of productive community services have already about the care of their own health, both through the produced promising results and suggest potential reductions internet and through interactive television, which presents of time spent: on travel by more than one fifth; on a great opportunity. Let us say that someone has a administration of referrals by more than 80 per cent.; problem such as asthma. Interactive television can be on finding stock and supplies by two thirds; and on useful for someone who is not perhaps as technology-literate dealing with interruptions by more than half. That has as younger people often are. led to an increase in time spent on direct patient care We face a great challenge, but we can overcome it by and, not surprisingly, staff morale has gone up by more improving the quality of care, reducing the costs at the than 90 per cent. That is the type of measure that can same time and delivering within NHS budgets, while change the quality of care and save money. Reformed recognising that the highest priority of the NHS must community services and transforming the care of those always be patient safety and ensuring that we improve with long-term conditions, delivering integrated, efficient the quality of patient care. 245WH 2 MARCH 2010 Peripheral Arterial Disease 246WH

Peripheral Arterial Disease diabetes in the UK, and large increases in amputation rates are a possible unfortunate consequence of the 1.30 pm growing number of diabetics. However, the good news is that, according to the International Diabetes Federation, Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East) (Lab): It is a 85 per cent. of amputations in patients with diabetes great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Jones, can be avoided, and that is the main point of today’s for what I think is the first time. It is also a great debate. pleasure to see the Minister here to respond to the The impact of amputation on patients is stark and debate. I will try to persuade her that we can avoid evident. Amputations also cost the country and the lower-limb amputations if the national health service NHS large amounts of money. The amputation rate is works more holistically. between 5 and 6 people per 100,000, but the figures Amputations are in the mind of the general public for range broadly between strategic health authorities. I the tragic reason that many of our troops are returning have just received the latest statistics on the numbers of home from war theatres—particularly Afghanistan—having amputations in England, which are broken down into undergone not only lower-limb amputations, but the different kinds of amputations. The numbers are amputations of parts of their arms. However, the vast still rising. majority of amputations undertaken in the national Each surgical procedure costs between £10,000 and health service are caused by peripheral arterial disease, £15,000, which means an annual bill to the NHS of diabetes or, quite often, a combination of both. Losing between £50 million and £75 million. However, that a limb is a tragedy for any patient, and their quality of does not take into account the substantial costs of life afterwards, particularly if they are elderly, can be rehabilitation, the provision of prostheses and social extremely poor. Only half the patients who undergo a care, and the social and economic impact on society. major lower-limb amputation as a result of such diseases The wider cost of patients in employment with moderate- live more than another two years. The number of major to-severe peripheral arterial disease can be measured in lower-limb amputations is still rising—there were well terms of working days lost through illness and disability. over 25,000 major amputations between 2003 and 2008. We should also consider the loss of taxation revenue to There is an urgent need to reduce amputation rates and the Exchequer and the cost of benefit payments to ill to save more legs. The good news is that that can and disabled people, which are likely to amount to be done. hundreds of millions of pounds on the taxation bill. Peripheral arterial disease is a form of arterial sclerosis and is closely associated with stroke and coronary heart Some 85 per cent. of amputations are preceded by a disease. The condition is caused by a narrowing of the foot ulcer. The estimated cost of foot complications arteries, usually in the legs. A symptom of the disease is alone to the NHS is £256 million per annum. The past intermittent claudication, which is a cramping pain felt 20 years have seen major developments in the healing of in the calf, thigh or buttock during walking or other foot and/or leg tissue loss, which have been driven by exercise. It is caused by poor blood flow and affects up innovations in assessment and treatment, the development to 870,000 people, or 5 per cent. of the population. of modern wound-care dressing materials and the Without proper blood flow, wounds cannot heal, which development of surgical and other, less invasive leads to infections, ulcerations and, tragically, to amputation interventional treatments by vascular specialists. Despite in some cases. that, the numbers of lower-limb amputations are still high. At this point, I pay tribute to the work of the Circulation Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): I congratulate the Foundation, the Vascular Society and the British Society hon. Gentleman on bringing this matter to the House. of Interventional Radiology, whose members have done, He is going through the disease processes, but does he and are still engaged in, excellent work highlighting the acknowledge that one of the greatest risk factors after need to save people’s legs. Indeed, I recently hosted a genetics is smoking? Will he therefore welcome no-smoking parliamentary reception to highlight the subject. Groups day on 10 March, which will be run in community halls, such as the Lindsay Leg Club Foundation also do schools and shopping centres across the country? Will excellent work helping patients with leg and foot tissue he try to get the NHS to get more people to stop loss through direct support and care. smoking? Clinicians are only too well aware of the challenge of rising amputation rates. Put simply, patients are being Dr. Iddon: I have been a great advocate of stopping seen by vascular specialists far too late, when amputation people smoking, including people in my family, and I is the only option available. When a patient first goes to will refer a little later to smoking as a causative factor of their general practitioner with mild symptoms of narrowing arteries. intermittent claudication, they are correctly advised to Diabetes is a major cause of peripheral arterial disease. change their lifestyle and particularly to cease smoking Diabetics have an increased risk of developing the and undertake some exercise. Medication with aspirin disease and account for up to 70 per cent. of non-traumatic or statins can reduce clot formation and cholesterol amputations. The relative risk of amputation is 40 times levels and can help to limit disease progression. Other greater for diabetics. Anther pretty stark statistic for cardiovascular risks to which the patient is likely to be right hon. and hon. Members to digest is that a diabetic subject can be addressed at the same time. who smokes runs an approximately 30 per cent. risk of Unfortunately, treatment by a vascular specialist is amputation within five years—the point made by the often seen as a last resort. However, revascularisation hon. Gentleman. through an open surgical procedure or angioplasty, We all know how the prevalence of diabetes is increasing with or without a stent, can bypass or unblock arteries, to worrying proportions as a result of lifestyle and improving blood flow in the lower extremities. obesity. There are an estimated 3 million people with Revascularisation can significantly add to the benefits 247WH Peripheral Arterial Disease2 MARCH 2010 Peripheral Arterial Disease 248WH of lifestyle change. Britain has one of the lowest Prevention is always better than cure, for the patient as revascularisation rates for legs in Europe and some of well as the NHS. Now could be the right time for a the highest amputation rates, which tells us a lot. If national target to reduce Britain’s rising amputation patients were referred to vascular specialists a lot earlier, rates. A national campaign to raise awareness, among they could get the appropriate treatment, and we could not just health professionals—especially GPs—but the save a hell of a lot of legs. general public, seems justified at this time. We must increase awareness of peripheral arterial disease among health professionals and particularly 1.44 pm among GPs. That is what I am trying to do today. A clear referral pathway from primary care to secondary The Minister of State, Department of Health (Gillian care would help vascular specialists to see patients Merron): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for sooner. Peripheral arterial disease is not, however, a Bolton, South-East (Dr. Iddon)on securing this important condition that involves just one discipline, which is why debate and commend him for his excellent work in the I mentioned an holistic approach at the beginning of all-party group on diabetes, which is a sign of his my speech. A diabetic patient with foot ulcers and commitment to reducing vascular disease. He said that advanced intermittent claudication should be seen by a he was seeking to persuade me, and as always the points wound care specialist, as well as by a diabetologist and a he made were persuasive and well-informed. They shone vascular specialist—either a vascular surgeon or a light on something that perhaps few have drawn interventional radiologist. attention to. My hon. Friend has raised an issue that perfectly Peripheral arterial disease requires a multidisciplinary illustrates the challenge the NHS must meet in the approach. There are some great examples here in the coming years. His speech reminded me of a quotation. UK where that approach is seen to be working and is At the turn of the last century, George Bernard Shaw already saving legs. An 11-year survey of diabetic despaired of a society that amputation rates, conducted between 1995 and 2005 at “will pay a surgeon to remove a leg, but nothing to save it”. Ipswich hospital, showed a significant decrease in lower-leg amputation rates following introduction of a In this century, the NHS has changed and continues to multidisciplinary foot team. Over the survey period, the change: it is not just a service for treating illness, but a incidence of all amputations fell by a staggering 40 per national health service for the promotion of good health. cent., and among people with diabetes by a more staggering Specifically, it is true that we must do more to save more 70 per cent. Similar outcomes have been achieved in people from the terrible tragedy of limb amputation. As Middlesbrough and Southampton, and there are probably my hon. Friend says, although peripheral arterial disease other examples of best practice in this country of which can have devastating consequences and affects a significant I am unaware. number of people, it is not often in the public eye. That is why I particularly welcome the debate and am grateful Although I have painted a generally bleak picture, I to him for drawing attention to the matter. hope that I have shown hon. Members, and particularly To give a wider context, under our five-year plan my hon. Friend the Minister, that we can achieve great “From good to great”, the NHS must do three things: improvements through a co-ordinated effort and bringing take a more preventive approach, stopping more people services together. In the end, the improvements in care I developing serious illness, as we have discussed; be more suggest would lead to a higher quality of life for many people-centred, organising services around the individual, patients and could be cost-effective overall, too. The and in particular managing long-term conditions in Government have made great strides in improving survival more effective ways; and put quality at the heart of rates and treatment for patients with coronary heart everything it does—improving diagnosis, treatment disease, and we know that the NHS, with a clear strategy, and management of disease, and building stronger can achieve great things—there have been many examples multidisciplinary teams to improve the care that a patient of that in the past 10 years. Peripheral arterial disease is receives. often seen as a poor relation to stroke and heart disease. I think it is high time that we should focus on peripheral I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend that peripheral arterial disease as well. arterial disease is a clear case in point. We must get better at preventing and diagnosing it and managing it We can save legs and save money, even in an age of at primary care level, and get better at joining up austerity. I am confident that, by learning the best primary and secondary care so that fewer patients end practice from our European partners, which do much up facing limb amputation. better than we do, particularly through early referral; As to awareness, it is an unfortunate fact that by the by incorporating best practice from the UK; and by time many of us get to 50, we will have some fatty bringing into every hospital multidisciplinary collaboration build-up in our arteries, which can lead to peripheral between leading clinicians, we can reduce amputation arterial disease, or indeed to heart disease or stroke. A rates, despite an ageing population and more patients typical candidate for peripheral arterial disease might unfortunately being diagnosed with diabetes. That view be over the age of 50 and would probably be a smoker— is shared by many consultants, some of whom I have often male—and perhaps would have diabetes. Many talked to personally. GPs therefore come across cases fairly regularly, and in Such improvements in care fit perfectly with the drive the early stages of the disease can treat it themselves in the NHS for better quality of patient care and with advice about blood pressure and the means to improved productivity but, of course, it is also important lower cholesterol levels. However, I accept the points to prevent the ever-increasing occurrence of diabetes. that my hon. Friend raised about awareness. It is always We need much more research to find out what is really good to ensure that GPs are brought into contact with causing the increasing prevalence of that difficult disease. the latest thinking about diagnosis and treatment. 249WH Peripheral Arterial Disease2 MARCH 2010 Peripheral Arterial Disease 250WH

Bob Spink: I would like to add to the Minister’s list The programme will not only spot potential candidates obesity, poor diet and lack of exercise, which are also for peripheral arterial disease earlier on—which, as we causal factors. have heard, is crucial—but will help GPs and other health professionals to talk to patients about risk factors, Gillian Merron: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that helping them to adapt their lifestyles early on and intervention. I will come on to the contribution that prevent the disease. obesity can make, which my hon. Friend the Member Clearly, if people develop peripheral arterial disease, for Bolton, South-East has already referred to. it is vital that they get fast access to the treatment that The responsibility for the content of GPs’ continuous they need, as my hon. Friend said. I was glad to hear the professional development lies with the royal colleges, as compliments rightly given about the dramatic improvements my hon. Friend knows. I confirm that, as a result of the we have seen in places such as Ipswich, Middlesbrough debate taking place, I plan to write to them, raising his and Southampton, and I congratulate all the staff who concerns and seeking their assurance that peripheral have made that possible. We would like to see the same arterial disease features on the curriculum. I am sure he results across the national health service. will welcome that. Last June, the Department of Health commissioned a primary care service framework for peripheral arterial As to improving the way people live, and their health, disease, which is about giving primary care trusts support the sensible points that my hon. Friend made reminded and guidance to improve the commissioning of services me of the importance of reducing smoking and encouraging to diagnose and manage the disease. The National healthier lifestyles. We know that that is vital for reducing Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence is developing cardiovascular disease and diabetes. I was therefore a new specific guideline on peripheral arterial disease, very encouraged recently to hear that, as a result of our which I hope my hon. Friend will welcome. Change4Life campaign, more parents—indeed, we estimate that it is a million more mums—are shopping more My hon. Friend emphasised the connection with healthily, putting better food on the table and encouraging diabetes, and he will therefore know that there is best their children, like themselves, to move forward. In practice guidance on improving the range and quality other words, they are thinking more about their children’s of hospital foot care services. That is vital for reducing diet and exercise, putting them on the road to better the number of amputations linked to diabetes, including vascular health later in life. those brought about by peripheral arterial disease. There is also a considerable amount of work under way to My hon. Friend rightly mentioned that the biggest improve support for people living with long-term conditions, risk factor in peripheral arterial disease is smoking. which includes delivering more personalised care to More than 90 per cent. of people with the disease are help them to manage their own conditions more effectively, smokers—a shocking figure. It is clear that quitting and wider use of personal health budgets. smoking can not only prevent peripheral arterial disease, but can improve and stabilise the condition once it is We want to give patients flexibility and control over established. Our ambition to halve smoking rates through their treatment. By empowering patients, we will drive the tobacco control strategy that we recently presented up the quality of care, encourage better integration will therefore help to reduce peripheral arterial disease, across clinical teams and ensure that patients get the as more people seek to quit and more people do not multidisciplinary treatment that my hon. Friend referred take up smoking in the first place. to as the best practice. Those are all good points that he rightly made on peripheral arterial disease. My hon. Friend is right to make those links as, Quality draws all this together. We have embarked on after all, many people would be shocked to hear that an ambitious quality and productivity programme, and by smoking they could ultimately find themselves over the next year the national health service will put facing limb amputation, if peripheral arterial disease huge energy into identifying the most effective and set in. efficient, and the safest, treatment across the system. Stopping smoking is perhaps the single biggest prevention The leadership will be provided by the National Quality measure for vascular disease, but there are other prevention Board, whose role it will be to take decisions on strategies, particularly those linked with the coronary prioritisation in relation to specific conditions, if that heart disease national service framework and the national should prove necessary. service framework for diabetes, which will help to reduce My hon. Friend made a call for a specific target to the risk of peripheral arterial disease. The national reduce lower limb amputations, and I absolutely understand service framework for diabetes helps to increase the rate why he has do so. In recent years, we have tried to move of diagnosis, and with diagnosis comes better management to a position in which we are improving quality throughout of the condition. the NHS, and making quality the organising principle. I am glad to say that we can point to real progress in Linked to that, we have to set service-wide ambitions, reducing vascular disease overall. The Government met such as our commitment to an 18-week maximum wait their 2010 target on reducing mortality rates for between GP and operating theatre, the new commitment cardiovascular disease five years early, and we have to one-week cancer diagnosis, and the commitment to a nearly halved death rates compared to the 1995-97 maximum four-hour wait in accident and emergency. baseline, saving more than 34,000 lives in 2008 alone. All those commitments are crucial to continuing the The other important development is the NHS health excellence of health care for patients and what they check programme, which was launched last year. It is should rightly have, which should, of course, achieve thought to be one of the most ambitious public health improvements for everybody. We believe that the approach programmes in the world, with around 15 million 40 to of setting more service-wide ambitions will ultimately 75-year-olds eligible for universal screening and assessment be rather more effective than setting ever more, and ever of their risk of developing vascular disease. more condition-specific, targets. 251WH Peripheral Arterial Disease2 MARCH 2010 Peripheral Arterial Disease 252WH

The conditions are right for the NHS to build on the as Change4Life and the NHS stop smoking services. work that has been done over the past decade to reduce We will, however, continue to take heed of the points and contain all forms of vascular disease and diabetes. that my hon. Friend has made, and I look forward to It is clear, I agree, that we have to improve the treatment continuing improvements and a lessening of the number of symptomatic peripheral arterial disease, as my hon. of limb amputations. Friend so clearly and rightly described. Above all, we Question put and agreed to. have to do everything we can to prevent more people from developing the condition in the first place. That is where our primary focus will be, and it is why we 1.57 pm continue to devote so much effort to programmes such Sitting adjourned.

101WS Written Ministerial Statements2 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 102WS

We estimate that the implementation of this strategy Written Ministerial will help support around 65,000 jobs in 2020 in the installation and manufacture of insulation and micro- Statements generation, with further jobs created in the wider supply chain. The proposals in this strategy signal a step change in Tuesday 2 March 2010 the level of ambition for the household sector over the next decade that will put the country on track to meet our carbon targets while at the same time saving families money on their fuel bills, creating jobs and helping to ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE secure our energy supplies.

Household Energy Management FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (Edward Miliband): Together with my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and the Minister for Housing, I am publishing EU General and Foreign Affairs Councils today “Warm Homes, Greener Homes: A strategy for Household Energy Management”, which sets out the strategy for improving energy efficiency in people’s homes The Minister for Europe (Chris Bryant): The General through to 2020. Copies of the document will be placed Affairs Council (GAC) and Foreign Affairs Council in the Libraries of the House. (FAC) were held on 22 February in Brussels. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary represented the UK. Improving domestic energy efficiency helps people to make their homes more comfortable, to save money on The agenda items covered were as follows: their energy bills and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. FOREIGN AFFAIRS COUNCIL This strategy sets out a comprehensive approach to helping people do that across all tenure types. The full text of all conclusions adopted, including ‘A’ The strategy will deliver greenhouse gas emissions points, can be found at: savings of at least 4 million tonnes of CO2 per annum http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/ by 2020, ensuring the UK hits its target of cutting docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/112999.pdf emissions from households by 29 per cent. by 2020. Haiti The strategy sets out our commitment to support High Representative Ashton gave a positive assessment people to install cavity wall and loft insulation in every of the EU’s contribution and announced that she would home where practical to do so by 2015, while increasing travel to Haiti soon, together with Humanitarian the volumes of more significant insulation measures. Commissioner Georgieva. The Commission said it would We will help people to install eco-upgrades to their release ¤5 million (£4.39 million) in budget support homes—which go beyond basic measures to include within the next few days, rising to ¤50 million (£43.9 million) solid wall insulation and/or micro-renewable energy in the remainder of 2010; and was committing a further generation—in up to 7 million homes by 2020, on the ¤90 million (£79.1 million) in humanitarian assistance, way to ensuring that all homes have benefited from on top of the ¤30 million (£26.4 million) already committed, energy efficiency measures by 2030. There will be particular probably primarily for areas outside Port-au-Prince. support for vulnerable groups. The High Representative proposed that the March To deliver against these objectives, the strategy sets FAC agree conclusions giving her the mandate to represent out a new policy framework. This reflects the fact that the EU at the donors’ conference in New York in late the existing obligation for suppliers to support energy March; and that the EU should offer a significant efficiency measures is due to expire at the end of 2012, long-run reconstruction package at the conference. Ideas and also the new challenges that need to be overcome to for increasing EU visibility would also be discussed. meet our stretching ambitions. The Government broadly welcome this approach. The strategy has four elements: Iran An enhanced role for local authorities, including a requirement on energy companies to partner with councils to deliver local At the High Representative’s request, the Foreign Secretary area-based programmes and further support for district heating; introduced the discussion. He highlighted that the EU New financing mechanisms, including an obligation on energy needed to pursue the dual track policy and also increase companies to support people to improve their energy efficiency the pressure in relation to human rights, whilst the E3 and plans for legislation to enable households to install measures plus 3 pursued work on the new UNSCR. Ashton without upfront costs, with repayments made out of the savings concluded that there was a high degree of consensus in energy bills; around several recommendations: including that the Universal standards for the rented sector, including a new dual-track policy should be pursued “calmly and steadily”; warm homes standard for social housing to complement decent and that the EU should be ready to support the UN homes and plans for regulation of the private rented sector; track. The Government strongly endorse this approach. Support for consumers in understanding their options, including MEPP a universal advice service, new standards for installation, and plans to make better use of the energy performance certificate. This item was dropped from the FAC agenda. 103WS Written Ministerial Statements2 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 104WS

Ukraine to pay attention to economic policy—but in order to The High Representative welcomed the conduct of make sure that a strategic view and assessment of the Ukrainian presidential elections. The Commission progress could be made, a dedicated annual economic presented initial proposals for engagement with the new summit was needed; otherwise, the risk was that strategic President that set out the reforms required and the EU consideration of economic policy would be derailed by support on offer. Following a discussion of these proposals, events. The presidency expressed the need for progress the High Representative noted the support from many on Europe 2020 at the spring European Council, to member states to engage strongly with the new Ukrainian show that the EU could deliver for its citizens. team, but also the need for progress with reforms on the Climate change Ukrainian side. The Government strongly support this The new Climate Action Commissioner, Connie Hedegaard, approach. set out her intentions for European climate policy in the AOB: Afghanistan wake of Copenhagen, placing particular emphasis upon the need for better co-ordinated outreach to the major The High Representative gave an update on the international players. Many member states called for appointment of an EU special representative to the maintenance of the EU’s ambition on climate, for Afghanistan. Once the process is completed, the successful the speedy operationalisation of the Copenhagen accord, candidate would be double-hatted as the head of the and for delivery of the promised fast-start funding, all EU delegation in Kabul. of which are in line with the UK position. AOB: Belarus Dinner with President van Rompuy Poland raised the ongoing repression of Belarus’ Polish The discussion covered the 11 February informal European minority. The Commission noted that it had already Council and preparations for the spring European Council. lobbied the Belarusian Foreign Minister. The High President van Rompuy expressed satisfaction with the Representative said that the FAC would return to this 11 February summit, although the dominance of economic issue. issues had left work unfinished on climate change and AOB: Dubai/passports Haiti, which the GAC and European Council would Ministers agreed a statement on the killing of Mahmoud need to follow up. al-Mabhouh in Dubai on 20 January. It condemned the A points fact that those involved in the operation had used The Council adopted the following conclusions or passports and credit cards which had been fraudulently decisions without discussion: acquired through the theft of EU citizens’ identities. Council conclusions on Zimbabwe The Government strongly support the statement. The Council conclusions on the Republic of Moldova: Restrictive Foreign Secretary said that the EU needed to think measures against the leadership of the Moldavian region of hard about how it could promote peace and stability in Transnistria the region, because the longer this was left unaddressed, Council decision extending restrictive measures against the the greater the risk of individual incidents such as this leadership of the Transnistrian region of the Republic of spilling over. Moldova Relations with Morocco: Adoption of the EU position in view AOB: Libya/Switzerland/visas of the EU-Morocco summit Malta, Italy and Spain briefed Ministers on the Libya/Swiss Relations with the Kyrgyz Republic: Establishment of the EU bilateral dispute, which had prompted Libya to refuse position for the 11th meeting of the EU-Kyrgyz Republic visas to citizens of all Schengen countries, including Co-operation Council many EU member states. The High Representative concluded that Libya’s actions had been disproportionate, and encouraged the Swiss to resolve the matter diplomatically. HEALTH AOB: Madeira Portugal briefed Ministers on the recent flooding and Future of Nursing and Midwifery landslides in Madeira. The High Representative said that she was keen to offer Portugal such assistance as possible. The Secretary of State for Health (Andy Burnham): AOB: Niger Today, on behalf of the Government, I welcome formally the report from the Commission on the Future of The Council discussed briefly the coup d’état in Niger Nursing and Midwifery in England. on 18 February and called for the swift restoration of democracy and constitutional order. The commission, chaired by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member GENERAL AFFAIRS COUNCIL for Brentford and Isleworth (Ann Keen), was established The full text of all conclusions adopted can be found by the Prime Minister in March 2009 to take a visionary at: look at how to maximise the contribution of nurses and midwives to the health of the nation in the future. http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/ docs/pressdata/EN/genaff/112998.pdf It undertook an extensive engagement exercise, hearing the views of many thousands of nurses, midwives, patients, Preparation of the European Council, 25-26 March and members of the public across England and its The European Council agenda will consist of the report, “Front Line Care”, sets out proposals to ensure Europe 2020 strategy for jobs and growth and climate that the nurses and midwives of the future are at the change. The Government welcome the presidency’s choice heart of designing and delivering 21st century health of topics. The UK agreed that leaders needed continuously services. 105WS Written Ministerial Statements2 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 106WS

I welcome the messages in the report that the climate in Bangladesh was emphasised. The Finance fundamentals of patient care should always remain the Minister reaffirmed the Government’s determination to core responsibility of nurses and midwives, but also that increase domestic revenue mobilisation and improve responsibility for care needs to go right through to the budget implementation. board. Commitments were captured in a “BDF agreed action I would like to place my thanks on record to the plan”, outlining 25 concrete actions for Government to commission for the work that has led to this report. be supported by development partners. The potential My Department and I will consider the contents of for increased transparency and aid effectiveness was the report in detail, and will formally respond in due boosted by the Government’s endorsement of the course. joint co-operation strategy, produced collectively by 32 development partners operational in Bangladesh I am placing a copy of the report in the Library and and centred around the Paris declaration on aid effectiveness copies are available to hon. Members from the Vote and Accra agenda for action. Office. The themes emerging from the BDF endorsed the direction the UK’s country plan for Bangladesh (2009-2014) is already taking, with our development efforts focused INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT on building effective Government systems and strengthening the political system; improving the delivery of services; working with the private sector to create jobs; and Bangladesh Development Forum helping the country live with climate change. Future programme direction and ongoing implementation of the existing portfolio will be guided by the BDF outcomes The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for and framed by the joint co-operation strategy. International Development (Mr. Michael Foster): The The Government of Bangladesh used the event to Government of Bangladesh held a high level Bangladesh dismiss reports—in the UK and Bangladesh—of a dispute Development Forum (BDF) meeting in Dhaka on over climate change funding. The Government confirmed 15-16 February 2010. It was the first such event since their desire to establish a climate change multi-donor 2005, and it took place one year after the current trust fund, with grant funding committed from the UK, Government took office. The objective of the forum the European Union and Denmark. The fund will by was for the Government to share, and discuss with led by the Government with the World Bank providing development partners, their long-term plan to reach technical back-stopping and fiduciary management. middle income status by 2021 (Vision 2021); the content As co-chair of the Local Consultative Group, which of their new national strategy for accelerated poverty represents development partners in Bangladesh, the reduction; and their proposed reforms and delivery UK played a central strategic role in preparing for the priorities. forum and steering the event. We will continue to work The forum was widely hailed as a success. Prime closely with the Government of Bangladesh to ensure Minister, Sheikh Hasina, opened the event, her speech that the next steps outlined in the action plan are referring specifically to the need for healthy democracy, implemented. decentralisation, transparency and anti-corruption. She highlighted the climate change challenge, called for JUSTICE speedy action on Copenhagen “fast-start” finance and emphasised the importance of women’s empowerment Bernard Lodge Inquiry and gender equity. Her presence increased the profile of the event, attracting substantial national media attention. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice Six business sessions covered: development strategies, (Claire Ward): Today I have laid before Parliament the governance and human development; power and Government response to the report of the Inquiry into energy; agriculture, food security and water resources; the death of Bernard Lodge, who died at HMP Manchester environment and climate change; transport and on 28 August 1998. I published the report of the inquiry communications; and “Digital Bangladesh and ICT on 15 December 2009. development”. The Minister of Finance A.M.A. Muhith The National Offender Management Service is chaired all six business sessions, supported by Economic committed to learning lessons from all deaths in prison Adviser to the Prime Minister Moshior Rahman and a custody. number of cabinet ministers and secretaries. The event was well attended by development partners, including 36 development agencies and donors, and more than TRANSPORT 80 civil society and private sector representatives. Bangladesh Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle Licensing was congratulated on its progress towards the millennium development goals, on its sustained economic growth, and on its climate change strategy. The Minister of State, Department for Transport Improving delivery was at the heart of all discussions, (Mr. Sadiq Khan): The Department has published today with governance issues—the need for institutional and a revised version of its best practice guidance for taxi policy reforms, local government strengthening, improved and private hire vehicle (PHV) licensing authorities. implementation capacity and reduced corruption—and A copy has been placed in the Libraries of the House. climate change featuring prominently. The importance The purpose of the guidance is to assist licensing of regional links in power, trade, transport and authorities in carrying out their taxi and PHV licensing communications, and the need to create a better investment functions. 107WS Written Ministerial Statements2 MARCH 2010 Written Ministerial Statements 108WS

The key aim of the guidance is to ensure that the for example on a phased and incremental approach to decisions which licensing authorities make deliver a demand management. Its weaknesses lay in its too good and safe service to the public having taken account narrow a focus on the issue of congestion, the failure to of all the factors involved, including, for example, the win public acceptance for the more challenging proposals, effect on the supply of taxis and PHVs of unnecessary and inability to transform governance at the same time rules and restrictions. as delivering radical change. The new fund will draw on Publication of guidance was initially recommended the lessons from TIF and the new ideas that have come by the Office of Fair Trading in the context of their forward. market study in 2003. The first guidance was published Sustainable travel measures will be a key component in 2006. This revised version takes account of comments of the packages supported by the new fund. The sustainable received as part of a consultation exercise in 2009. travel towns initiative has shown that small-scale, relatively inexpensive measures can deliver significant reductions in car trips, increases in bus use, walking and cycling Urban Challenge Fund and consequential improvements in health. In order to achieve best value from available resources, the sustainable travel programme for cities will be absorbed into the The Minister of State, Department for Transport urban challenge fund. While there will be no separate (Mr. Sadiq Khan): I am announcing today the Government’s fund for cities, we would expect these sorts of measures plans for a new urban challenge fund designed to support to form part of a wider package of interventions, and local authorities in delivering economic growth and deliver even greater benefits than those already achieved improving the health and environment for local communities through the sustainable travel towns initiative. in urban areas The Department will be considering the future of our The Prime Minister’s strategy unit report on urban current congestion performance fund and targets with a transport and the DFT response “The Future of Urban view to ensuring there is an integrated approach to Transport”, published in November 2009, identified a addressing all of the challenges in urban areas. range of transport challenges faced by our cities. It Funding for the urban challenge fund will be top-sliced estimated the cost of congestion, in delays and unreliability from the Department’s overall funding allocation following suffered by road users, to be of the order of £12 billion conclusion of the next comprehensive spending review. a year. The PMSU report also indicated that the measurable costs to society of poor air quality, inactivity leading to I am publishing today also a discussion paper inviting obesity, and road accidents in urban areas, are each comments on the new urban challenge fund. Copies of similar to those of congestion. The evidence from the the discussion paper are being placed in the House PMSU report is that initiatives geared to tackling the Libraries and will also be available on the Department various challenges simultaneously better would achieve for Transport’s website. “triple win” outcomes in terms of economic growth, improvements to health, and improvement to the urban environment. This new fund will support forward-looking WORK AND PENSIONS cities and local authorities in delivering these outcomes. The aim of the new fund will be to deliver clear and National Employment Savings Trust measurable benefits for urban areas in terms of: enhanced mobility, through offering people wider choices for their journeys; The Minister for Pensions and the Ageing Society reduced congestion and increased journey time reliability; (Angela Eagle): Today is another important milestone better health as a result of improved safety and much greater for the delivery of workplace pension reform. The Personal levels of walking and cycling; Accounts Delivery Authority (PADA) has completed streets and public spaces which are enjoyable places to be, its procurement for the scheme administration services where exposure to harmful emissions is reduced, and where for NEST, and will award that contract to Tata Consultancy quality of life is transformed: Services Limited (TCS) later today. PADA plans to sign improved safety; and the contract with TCS later this month. reduced level of carbon emission from transport. The 10-year contract has two stages. The first stage The fund will support packages of measures designed runs to October 2010, and enables TCS to begin the to deliver all of these benefits. The packages are likely activity required to set up and administer NEST. A to include a combination of sustainable travel measures, further decision will be made by October on whether to investment to encourage modal shift and better bus proceed with the second stage contract for the remainder services alongside demand management measures, better of the contract term. The contract also includes possible and city-wide traffic management and improved street extensions for up to a further five years. design. Acting together, these measures will deliver a NEST is a critical part of the Government’s pension step change in the local economy, the health of urban reforms and, as one of the pension schemes employers residents and the environment they enjoy. will be able to use to fulfil their automatic enrolment The new fund will replace the transport innovation duties, will play a major role in supporting low to fund. Work by a number of authorities showed that a moderate earners in saving for their retirement. combination of measures was necessary to tackle the PADA’s priority has been to secure value for money problem of congestion and could deliver wider benefits for future NEST members. I am satisfied this contract to local communities, the urban economy and environment. achieves that objective, and we remain on track to TIF also encouraged new thinking in a number of areas, deliver the reform package from October 2012. 15P Petitions2 MARCH 2010 Petitions 16P

If the asylum seeker’s application is successful they Petitions will have full access to public funds on a no less favourable basis than UK citizens. However, when it has been Tuesday 2 March 2010 determined that an asylum seeker does not need international protection it is the Government’s policy to discontinue providing support. The Government do not OBSERVATIONS consider that it is right to continue to fund those who choose to remain here when they have no grounds to stay and it is open to them to return to a home country that has been found safe for them to live in. HOME DEPARTMENT There are sufficient safeguards for a number of categories Destitution Among Asylum Seekers of vulnerable failed asylum seekers including families with dependent children under the age of 18 years who The Petition of Members of Churches Together in continue receiving support until they leave the UK; Roundhay, children and vulnerable adults qualifying for local authority Declares that we are deeply concerned about the high care provision, and those who are temporarily prevented levels of destitution among asylum seekers, especially from leaving the UK, who are provided with refused asylum seekers, and in particular that many accommodation and non–cash subsistence. In addition, people have been left in this dire situation for prolonged there is provision to support failed asylum seekers for a periods. time-limited period while they make arrangements to leave the UK. Research in Leeds in 2009, indicates that since the Report in 2007, the situation has deteriorated. It All asylum seekers and failed asylum seekers who demonstrates that destitution happens at all stages of apply for support, but are refused, are entitled to appeal the asylum process, administrative delays worsen destitution, this decision to the independent Tribunal. The Government destitution is serious and prolonged, the number of do not propose to alter this position. people being made newly destitute is increasing even with the ‘New Asylum Model’—it is not just a ‘legacy’ With regard to the termination of support; failed problem and entitlement to apply for support does not asylum seekers in receipt of section 4 support will mean entitlement to receive support. Destitute people continue to be supported until the barrier to leaving the may be single or families with children; they are being UK, which entitles them to section 4 support, is removed forced into street homelessness and they have worsening or resolved, providing there is no change in their health and mental health problems. circumstances which would affect their eligibility. All The Petitioners therefore request that the House of cases will be regularly reviewed to determine if they Commons to ensure its legislation is designed and remain eligible for section 4 support. The asylum support implemented so as to end the destitution of asylum consultation proposes to remove the right of appeal seekers at all stages of the asylum process. Furthermore against the cessation of support that is provided in that asylum seekers have the right to work at all stages order to allow individuals to make arrangements to of the asylum process so they can contribute to the return home. This support is provided on an expressly United Kingdom and provide for themselves. time-limited basis. We have not proposed to remove the right of appeal when support is terminated in any other And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by circumstances. Mr. Fabian Hamilton, Official Report, 3 February 2010; Vol. 411, c. 505.] The Government are committed to partnership working [P000723] to reduce destitution and homelessness in the migrant Observations from the Secretary of State for the Home community. The UK Border Agency continues to support Department: the No Recourse to Public Funds Network (NRPF) The UK’s asylum support policy is properly balanced based at Islington. The network is developing a national and sufficient to meet essential living needs. No person operating structure and IT system to enable local authorities who has sought our protection need be destitute while to prevent fraud and share good practice when meeting waiting for an application to be decided. the needs of NRPF migrants receiving local authority We have transformed the asylum system by streamlining support. This network is also being designed to share the process and introducing end-to-end case management critical data with the UK Border Agency enabling far by a single case owner. The UK Border Agency provides more effective joint working with local authorities; the support to asylum seekers from the time they arrive in aim to resolve these claimants circumstances locally, at the UK until their claim is finally determined if they source. would otherwise be destitute. As part of this process we In addition, the UK Border Agency is working with have systems in place to measure the eligibility of the the network to more effectively tailor the assisted voluntary asylum seeker’s rights to access support at all stages of returns (AVR)scheme to meet the needs of local authority the asylum process. This includes an assessment of clients. destitution and a consideration of their rights under the European convention of human rights. The Government welcome the enormous contribution Asylum seekers who would otherwise be destitute are that the skills and knowledge of genuine refugees make entitled to accommodation or subsistence or both until to our society and economy, but permitting asylum their claim is fully determined. Extra money is provided seekers or failed asylum seekers to work is not in line to those who are pregnant or have children under the with Government policy. It is important to maintain the age of three. distinction between economic migration and asylum. 17P Petitions2 MARCH 2010 Petitions 18P

Giving asylum seekers or failed asylum seekers permission And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Mr. John to work would be likely to encourage asylum applications Leech, Official Report, 9 December 2009; Vol. 502, from those without a well-founded fear of persecution, c. 468.] hence slowing down the processing of applications made [P000493] by genuine refugees and undermining the integrity of Observations from the Secretary of State for the Home the managed migration system. The only exception is Department: asylum seekers who have been waiting 12 months for a decision where this delay cannot be attributed to them. The Government are committed to providing safety Allowing asylum seekers to work in these circumstances to those individuals found to be genuinely in need of is in accordance with the EC directive on the reception protection. The Government would not seek to enforce of asylum seekers. returns to Rwanda unless they were satisfied it was safe to do so. In the absence of compelling evidence to It is important that those who apply for asylum in the suggest that a particular unsuccessful asylum seeker is UK have their applications processed as quickly as at risk of persecution on return, the Government believe possible. In 2008 the UK Border Agency began meeting that the UK Border Agency are justified in maintaining its target to conclude 60 per cent. of new asylum claims their policy of enforcing the return of unsuccessful within six months and are working to meet even more asylum seekers. challenging targets. Those who are recognised as refugees will therefore increasingly be able to work here legally The Home Office Country of Origin information much sooner than in the past, enabling them to make a Service closely monitors the human rights situation in contribution to the UK. all the countries that generate asylum seekers to the United Kingdom including Rwanda. It provides accurate, objective, sourced and up to date information on asylum seekers’ countries of origin, for use by UK Border Immigration (Adela Mahoro Mugabo) Agency officials involved in the asylum determination The Petition of the Mahoro Must Stay Campaign, process. In dealing with applications from Rwanda caseworkers have access to detailed Country of Origin Declares that Adela Mahoro Mugabo, who is to be Information Reports which are published biannually on removed to Rwanda, is the widow of a man murdered in the top 20 asylum intake countries. These reports focus 2002 by the Interharamwe Hutus, and as a Hutu herself on the main issues raised in asylum and human rights was accused by the Rwandan Military Intelligence of applications to the UK. They are compiled from a wide covering up for her husband’s murderers. The Petitioners range of reliable external information sources including further declare that Mahoro was tortured and raped, international organisations such as UNHCR and non- and is now HIV-positive, and that if she is returned to governmental organisations, such as Human Rights Rwanda she will still be in danger and will be unable to Watch and Amnesty International and the media. get the anti-retroviral drugs she needs to survive. The UK Border Agency has confirmed that a decision The Petitioners therefore request that the House of has been made on Ms Mugabo’s case. The UK Border Commons urges the Home Secretary to instruct a Agency would like to assure the petitioners that the reconsideration of the Home Office decision and allow Country of Origin reports for Rwanda and Ms Mugabo’s Adela Mahoro Mugabo to stay in the UK, a safe circumstances, along with their petition, were taken environment in which she will be able to lead a healthy into account when a decision was made. Ms Mugabo life. will be notified of the outcome of her case shortly. 999W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1000W

how many people administer the scheme at each such Written Answers to location; and whether he has any proposals to reduce the number of (a) locations and (b) staff. [318845] Questions Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The Rural Payments Agency (RPA) currently operates from Tuesday 2 March 2010 six main offices and there are no plans to reduce that number. RPA reviews, and will continue to review, its operations and resources regularly to ensure customer service is delivered effectively and efficiently.It is anticipated ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS that RPA will reduce the number of staff employed at Agriculture: Subsidies each office during the 2010-11 year. Claims under the Single Payment Scheme (SPS) are Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for currently processed at RPA’s offices in Exeter, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many single Northallerton, Newcastle, Workington and Carlisle. Plans payments were made in each of the last three years for have recently been announced to transfer SPS processing which figures are available; how many such payments from Newcastle to the Workington, Carlisle and were monitored; and in how many cases reductions Northallerton offices. were made. [318843] Staff at RPA’s Reading office no longer process SPS claims but are involved in different aspects of administering Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The the scheme. number of farmers who received the Single Payment At the end of January 2010 the number of full-time (SPS) in England in respect of each scheme year is set equivalent staff involved in administering the Single out in the following table: Payment Scheme is: Farmers Staff SPS Scheme year Number Location Number

2006 106,979 Reading 147.51 2007 104,589 Exeter 201.85 2008 104,844 Northallerton 385.67 Newcastle 232.89 Latest figures show that, as at 23 February 2010 over Workington 244.03 98,000 farmers have received payment for the 2009 Carlisle 259.53 scheme year, the payment window for which closes on Total 1,471.48 the 30 June. Note: These figures do not include Inspectorate or Finance staff. There are a number of farmers who have not received RPA operates a flexible resourcing model and staff a payment because their claim is still undergoing the reductions are usually achieved through the reductions necessary validation checks. Some of these claims may of temporary and fixed term appointments with regular result in no payment being due to the claimant once consultation taking place with people and trade unions eligibility checks have been carried out. on any planned staff reductions. All claims undergo validation as part of the Rural Payment Agency’s regular processes and in addition a Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 minimum of 5 per cent. are inspected, physically or remotely, as required by the EU. For cross compliance Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for purposes, each of the four Competent Control Authorities Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many dogs inspect at least 1 per cent. of farmers receiving payments have been seized under the provisions of the that are conditional on meeting the cross compliance Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 in each of the last five years. requirements for which they have responsibility. RPA [319984] uses existing cattle and sheep inspection regimes to partly satisfy this obligation. Jim Fitzpatrick: Figures for the number of dogs The number of SPS claims which have been reduced seized under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 are not is set out in the following table: collected centrally. Reductions SPS Scheme year Number Departmental Paper

2006 12,921 2007 13,719 Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 7,748 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what (a) suppliers and (b) brands of (i) paper and (ii) paper This includes a very substantial number of minor products his Department uses; and what his over-declarations of areas as well as more significant Department’s policy is on the procurement of those breaches of the scheme rules where we have to apply materials. [320039] sanctions. Dan Norris: From information held centrally the Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Department’s contracted suppliers for (i) and (ii) are Environment, Food and Rural Affairs at which The Paper Company and Banner Business Supplies locations the Single Payment Scheme is administered; Ltd. 1001W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1002W

From information held centrally the only brands for and (b) the Environment Agency regularly collects (i) and (ii) that could be identified are 100 per cent. from local authorities. [319623] recycled (Post Consumer Waste) Evolve Office and Evolve Business A4 80gsm copier paper. Dan Norris: I refer the hon. Member for Peterborough In the financial year 2008-9 Core DEFRA purchased to the answer given in response to the same question a total of 45,124 reams of white A4 80gsm copier paper that he asked on 4 February 2010, Official Report, at an average purchase price of £2.09 excluding VAT. column 452W. DEFRA’s procurement policy requires use of recycled paper and paper products that meet the Quick Wins Members: Correspondence targets set by the Government in October 2003. The only exceptions to these standards would be where Miss Widdecombe: To ask the Secretary of State for recycled paper or recycled products are not available for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he expects a specific process e.g. security paper. DEFRA is giving to reply to the letters of 20 November 2009 and 22 active consideration to achieving the 100 per cent. target January 2010 from the right hon. Member for for all paper it buys except in cases of specific process Maidstone and The Weald. [319542] need. Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 1 March 2010]: Unfortunately we can find no record of having received Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State the right hon. Member’s letter of 20 November 2009. for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many A reply to her letter of 22 January 2010 is being households in England had (a) black sack and (b) prepared, and will be sent shortly. I apologise for the wheeled containers for residual waste in each year since delay in responding. 2000. [319620] Rural Payments Agency: Location Dan Norris: The following table shows the number of dwellings in England that received a black bag or wheeled bin collection for residual waste from 2005-06 to 2008-09. Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs at which Number of dwellings locations the Rural Payments Agency has had offices in Black sacks () Wheeled bins each year since 2005; and how many staff the Agency employed at each such office in each such year. 2008-09 2,928,662 14,893,442 [318846] 2007-08 3,235,010 14,322,766 2006-07 3,581,016 13,611,652 2005-06 3,548,163 12,702,631 Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The Source: following table shows the number of full-time equivalent WasteDataFlow staff the Rural Payments Agency (RPA) has directly For the years 2000-01 to 2003-04 the only data available employed in each of its locations since 2005. Numbers shows the percentage of dwellings in England that reported are as at 31 March in each financial year and received black bag or wheeled bin collection. For each are in line with the agency’s ‘Annual Civil Service local authority, all of its households were classified Employment Survey’ return to the Office for National using the method of containment that was provided to Statistics which is published as part of the annual Civil more than 50 per cent. of households in that authority, Service Statistics report. hence these figures are subject to some uncertainty. The dwelling stock data for England for those years is Location 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 provided. RPA main Percentage of dwellings offices Carlisle 353.51 401.78 399.74 395.57 393.76 Dwelling stock (31 March of Exeter 429.78 311.25 415.41 440.68 383.38 Black sacks Wheeled bins financial year) Newcastle 476.32 459.49 517.44 405.80 451.03 Northallerton 432.89 360.59 484.09 477.80 506.63 2003-04 23 58 21,636,000 Reading 721.81 639.90 637.34 578.74 566.04 2002-03 25 55 21,481,000 Workington 447.31 526.15 765.14 691.52 631.52 2001-02 21 52 21,337,000 RPA 490.89 278.61 370.45 356.84 336.53 2000-01 26 51 21,207,000 outstations Sources: Total 3,352.51 2,977.77 3,589.61 3,346.95 3,268.89 Municipal Waste Management Survey, Department for Communities and Local Government website (Table 109) Data for 2004-05 is not available due to the introduction These figures include part-time and full-time employees that year of WasteDataFlow and there only being a of the agency and do not include agency staff and 50 per cent. response rate from local authorities. contractors. The outstations are generally shared premises with Local Government: Statistics DEFRA and/or other Government Departments and are located across the United Kingdom. The number of Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State outstations is currently 48 but has varied from 33 and for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what datasets 56 between 2005 and 2009 with the merger of the not in the National Indicator Set (a) his Department Horticultural Market Inspectorate into RPA in April 2006. 1003W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1004W

Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for NORTHERN IRELAND Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he has any proposals to reduce the number of (a) Rural Payments Departmental Energy Agency offices and (b) staff employed at each such office. [318847] Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps his Department plans to Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The take to participate in the Earth Hour event on Rural Payments Agency (RPA) currently operates from 27 March 2010. [319098] six main offices and there are no plans to reduce that number. Paul Goggins: The Northern Ireland Office (NIO) participated in Earth Hour 2009 by asking the management RPA reviews, and will continue to review, its operations in each of its buildings to take every possible step to and resources regularly to ensure customer service is ensure that no unnecessary lighting was left on. This is delivered effectively and efficiently. It is anticipated that our aim at all times. RPA will reduce the number of staff employed at each office during the 2010-11 year. The NIO have appointed a Green Champion who intends to issue a similar message for this year’s Earth Plans have recently been announced to transfer SPS Hour event which takes place on 27 March 2010 at processing from Newcastle to the offices at Northallerton, 8.30 pm. Carlisle and Workington. RPA operates a flexible resourcing model and staff reductions are usually achieved through the reductions of temporary and fixed term appointments with regular CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT consultation taking place with people and Trade Unions Digital Broadcasting: Northern Ireland on any planned staff reductions. Christopher Fraser: To ask the Secretary of State for Waste Disposal: EU Action Culture, Media and Sport what estimate he has made of the cost to the public purse of improving digital Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State coverage in Northern Ireland before the digital for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what switchover; and from what budget that cost will be met. discussions his Department had with the European [319473] Commission on proposals to establish an EU waste implementation agency. [319624] Mr. Bradshaw: As set out in the recently published Digital Britain White Paper, the Government recognise Dan Norris: The European Commission invited member that building out a Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) states, industry stakeholders and non-governmental infrastructure which meets the needs of broadcasters, organisations to attend informal workshops on the multiplex operators and listeners, including improving possibility of establishing a Waste Implementation Agency the quality of the signal, will require additional investment. on 2 April and 14 September 2009. However, the Digital Radio Upgrade programme, alongside DEFRA officials attended both workshops. The the proposals on co-location and licence-renewals, will Commission, via consultants, also invited member states offer significant cost-savings for commercial broadcasters, to respond to an informal questionnaire on the feasibility some of which must support investment in improving of establishing such an Agency. The UK responded to coverage. that questionnaire in April 2009. In areas where the BBC’s need to deliver universal access is not matched by the economic realities of the Waste Improvement Network: Finance local commercial market, the BBC will need to bear a significant portion of the costs. The full cost cannot be Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State left to the BBC alone. Where possible, the BBC and for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much national commercial multiplex operators should work his Department has given to the Waste Improvement together to ensure that any new transmitters benefit Network in each year since the Network’s inception; both BBC and commercial multiplexes. Partnerships and how much it plans to contribute in (a) 2009-10, between the BBC and commercial local multiplex operators (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12. [319666] will be even more important at a local DAB level. Dan Norris: Communities and Local Government We will work with the BBC, transmission providers (CLG) and DEFRA have funded the Waste Improvement and Ofcom to agree a plan for the extension and Network (WIN) as detailed in the table over a five-year improvement of local DAB coverage, and where the period: cost would most appropriately fall. Christopher Fraser: To ask the Secretary of State for Funding Source £ Culture, Media and Sport what estimate he has made 2006-07 CLG (through Regional Improvement and 89,700 of the proportion of households in Northern Ireland Efficiency Partnerships funding - RIEP) with access to (a) national DAB services from the BBC 2007-08 DEFRA (direct grant) 100,000 and (b) commercial DAB services provided at (i) 2008-09 DEFRA (direct grant) 85,000 national and (ii) local level; [319474] 2009-10 85% DEFRA (direct grant), 15% CLG 100,000 (through RIEP funding) Mr. Bradshaw: DAB coverage is principally measured 2010-11 85% DEFRA (direct grant), 15% CLG 100,000 by population rather than geographic area. Approximately (through RIEP funding) 90 per cent. of the UK population currently have some No budget has been set for 2011-12. access to DAB services on at least one multiplex. 1005W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1006W

DAB coverage in Northern Ireland is estimated at statutory consultation invites sporting bodies to submit around 87 per cent. of the population. Listeners in evidence of such impact. Where credible evidence is Northern Ireland can access up to 23 DAB stations, provided, I will take it into account in assessing the including the 11 national BBC stations plus BBC Radio overall economic impact on the sport in the event of a Ulster/Foyle, four national commercial stations (Classic particular event being listed. FM, talkSPORT, BFBS and Amazing Radio), and six local commercial stations. Olympic Games 2012: Culture In Northern Ireland, the BBC national multiplex was extended in April 2009, with a new transmitter installed Sir Nicholas Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State at Armagh, adding coverage for an estimated 80,000 for Culture, Media and Sport what the budget is for the people, improving reception for around 200,000 more in Cultural Olympiad. [318853] the area. The other four transmitter sites in Northern Ireland are at Divis, Brougher Mountain, Limavady Margaret Hodge [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The and Sheriff’s Mountain in Derry/Londonderry. Major Projects and the UK-wide cultural festival of the Cultural Olympiad provide opportunities across the Christopher Fraser: To ask the Secretary of State for UK to celebrate the best of British culture. Facilitated Culture, Media and Sport whether he plans to expand by the London Organising Committee of the Olympic digital capacity in Northern Ireland to allow stations and Paralympic Games, projects are delivered and funded currently available on analogue to provide digital in partnership with a range of public and private partners services before the digital switchover. [319476] for example the Olympic Lottery Distributor, national Mr. Bradshaw: The Government have tabled an Arts Councils and the Legacy Trust UK. amendment to the draft Digital Economy Bill which Approximately £72 million has been invested in funding would allow the existing national commercial multiplex and facilitating the Cultural Olympiad’s Major Projects to extend its coverage into Northern Ireland. This would (three of which have been launched already) and the double the capacity available for digital commercial UK wide cultural festival. In addition to this funding, services in Northern Ireland. nearly 150 self-funded cultural projects have already been awarded the London 2012 Inspire Mark. Christopher Fraser: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport whether he has made an Public Libraries estimate of the number of local commercial radio stations in Northern Ireland without a digital Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State migration pathway. [319477] for Culture, Media and Sport what timetable he has set for the proposed ending of the statutory requirement Mr. Bradshaw: No specific assessment has been made on local authorities to provide a comprehensive and of the impact of the radio provisions set out in the draft efficient library service. [319730] Digital Economy Bill on local commercial stations remaining on FM after the digital radio switchover. However, my Department is in regular dialogue with Margaret Hodge: There are no plans to end the the industry with the specific purpose of ensuring that statutory requirement on local authorities to provide a local radio can continue to thrive on FM after the comprehensive and efficient library service. It is this digital radio switchover. statutory basis which has protected and sustained the vital role of libraries in our communities. Listed Events Review

Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what representations he has HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION received from Ofcom in respect of the David Davies Review of Listed Events. [319786] Members: Expenses

Mr. Bradshaw [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The Mr. Hands: To ask the hon. Member for North Government’s statutory consultation on Free-to-Air Devon, representing the House of Commons Listed Events has been extended until 19 March. A Commission how much was paid to Detica as part of response from Ofcom has not as yet been received. the investigation into the leaking of hon. Members’ Subject to any issues relating to confidentiality, responses expenses files in 2009. [318945] to the consultation will be published on the Department’s website in due course. Nick Harvey: No payment has been made to date for a specific piece of work in connection with the internal Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for inquiry into the unauthorised disclosure of information Culture, Media and Sport pursuant to the answer of on Members’ allowances. 8 February 2010, Official Report, column 664W, on sports: television, what mechanisms will be used to Parliament: Energy resolve differences of opinion over the market value of listed events. [319838] Norman Baker: To ask the hon. Member for North Mr. Bradshaw [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The Devon, representing the House of Commons David Davies review of listed events acknowledged the Commission how many annunciator screens have been potential impact of listing on the market value of the replaced for each reason in the last 12 months; and at broadcasting rights to an event. The Government’s what cost those screens were replaced. [319052] 1007W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1008W

Nick Harvey: It is not possible to identify the number The Department for Transport has recently in House of Commons areas but 32 faulty television commissioned consultants to undertake the London to sets carrying the annunciator have been replaced across Haven ports national networks study.This is to understand the estate, including House of Lords areas, in the last and identify measures to address the issues on the 12 months, the House of Commons share of the cost strategic routes between London and the Haven Ports, being some £5,250. including the A12.

Aviation: Public Lavatories OLYMPICS Olympic Games: Canada Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport if he will make it a legal Mr. Hunt: To ask the Minister for the Olympics how requirement for commercial passenger airlines to much the Government Olympic Executive spent on provide free lavatory facilities for passengers on all travel for (a) officials and (b) Ministers to the international flights using UK airports. [319702] Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics. [318969] Paul Clark: There is no international requirement for Tessa Jowell [holding answer 1 March 2010]: GOE airlines to provide lavatory facilities for passengers. has not yet received all the invoices for officials’ costs. Airlines do however provide these facilities for free. We Details of ministerial travel costing over £500 are are not aware of any airlines who are not currently published annually and include the cost, destination doing this. and purpose of the trip. It also provides information on Therefore we see no reason for regulatory intervention the number of officials who accompany Ministers, and at present. their costs are included in this return. The most recent list was published in July 2009 and the details of attendance at the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympic games will be Bus Services: Concessions included in the 2010 return. Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how much his Department has spent on SCOTLAND national concessionary bus travel for pensioners since the scheme’s introduction in (a) Chorley, (b) Departmental Manpower Lancashire and (c) England. [319338]

Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Khan: From April 2008, the Department for Scotland how many of his Department’s officials were Transport has provided additional special grant funding classified as working in (a) England and (b) Scotland to local authorities to cover the extra cost of providing in each of the last three years; how many are so the extension to the concession; which now guarantees classified in 2010 to date; and how much his free off-peak local bus travel across England to all Department spent on staff salaries in each quarter of eligible older and disabled residents: 2009. [319586] (a) £275,041 in 2008-09 and £281,528 in 2009-10 to Chorley borough council; Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office does not classify staff as working in England or Scotland. The Office has (b) A total of £5,608,371 in 2008-09 and £5,740,644 in 2009-10 to all of the travel concession authorities (TCAs) in the County of staff in London and Edinburgh, some of whom travel Lancashire (which includes Blackburn with Darwen Council regularly between London and Scotland as business borough council and Blackpool council); needs demand. Scotland Office Annual Reports, which (c) A total of £212 million in 2008-09 and £217 million in are available on our website, provide staffing information. 2009-10 to the whole of England. Expenditure on staff salaries is not available in the form The Department for Communities and Local requested. Government continues to provide the bulk of concessionary travel funding to local authorities through formula grant. Before 1 April 2008, funding for the statutory minimum TRANSPORT bus concession was provided exclusively through the formula grant system. A12: Safety The Department for Transport did however provide Mr. Burns: To ask the Minister of State, Department £31 million of grant to England in 2007-08 for the cost for Transport what plans he has to (a) upgrade, (b) of producing and issuing the new England-wide bus improve safety and (c) relieve congestion on the A12 passes to all those eligible, of which a total of £1,121,352 between its junction with the M25 and Witham; and if went to the TCAs of Lancashire; this includes Chorley’s he will make a statement. [319082] allocation of £69,004. Chris Mole: Following the then Secretary of State for Transport’s announcement in November 2008 that the Bus Services: Greater Manchester Department for Transport would invest up to £60 million in introducing new traffic management measures to Graham Stringer: To ask the Minister of State, improve safety, reduce delays and tackle congestion Department for Transport what estimate he has made along 54 miles of the A12, the Highways Agency have of the contribution which will be made from the public begun to implement a programme of schemes to do purse to the Greater Manchester Cross City Bus Travel this. scheme in the next 12 months. [319434] 1009W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1010W

Mr. Khan [holding answer 1 March 2010]: Officials EC Transport Policy are currently assessing the business case and a decision on whether to grant initial funding approval will be Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, made in due course. Department for Transport how many other nations shared the UK position at the meeting of EU Dartford-Thurrock Crossing: Tolls Transport Ministers on 12 February 2010 in A Coruña, Spain that the European Commission action plan on urban mobility should not lead to further legislation; Mr. Evans: To ask the Minister of State, Department and if he will make it his policy that UK cities and for Transport what plans he has to introduce a facility regions will retain the freedom to implement locally for payment of tolls by credit or debit card at the relevant solutions. [319705] Dartford-Thurrock river crossing. [319789] Mr. Khan: A significant number of member states Chris Mole: The Department for Transport is committed shared the UK position by supporting the action plan to improving the levels of service experienced by users but making clear that it should not lead to any new of the Dartford crossing. legislation and that the principle of subsidiarity should In April 2009, the Department published its initial be respected. Twelve other Ministers explicitly made analysis of the current and possible future capacity this point during their interventions. constraints at the Dartford-Thurrock river crossing. On It is Government policy that cities and regions should the basis of the findings and conclusions of the analysis, have the freedom to implement locally relevant solutions. we announced further work to investigate what can be done in the short to medium term to improve the level Immobilisation of Vehicles of service provided by the existing crossing. This includes looking into ways to increase efficiency through the use Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, of new technology. Department for Transport how many vehicles were The introduction of payment by credit or debit cards impounded for unpaid vehicle excise duty in each of could be considered if it were demonstrated that this the last three years. [319703] would be both cost effective and would not adversely impact on transaction times. Paul Clark: The following table shows the number of vehicles impounded for unpaid vehicle excise duty in Driving Under Influence: Accidents the United Kingdom for each of the last three years.

Number of vehicles impounded Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many and what 2007 73,798 proportion of road deaths in each local authority area 2008 63,059 involved at least one driver with a blood alcohol level in 2009 56,604 excess of the legal limit in each of the last five years for Total 193,461 which figures are available. [320048] Metronet Paul Clark: The information requested is not available by local authority area. Mr. Touhig: To ask the Minister of State, However, further information about alcohol-related Department for Transport (1) what assessment his accidents can be found in the Drink drive articles, in Department has made of the performance of Metronet ‘Reported Road Casualties Great Britain’, at: against its objectives since its transfer to Transport for London; and what recent discussions his Department http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/ [318148] accidents/casualtiesgbar/ has had over its long-term future; (2) what recent assessment his Department has made East Coast Railway Line of the performance of Tube Lines against its objectives. [318150]

John Mann: To ask the Minister of State, Mr. Khan: When the London Underground public Department for Transport how many fewer train private partnership (PPP) was established in 2003, services will run on the East Coast Mainline to and performance measurements were put in place to enable from (a) Retford and London and (b) Retford and London Underground to assess the performance of Leeds in the next timetable period compared to current Metronet and Tube Lines. The performance reports are service levels; and how many more train services will available on Transport for London’s (TfL) website. My run to and from London and Leeds over the same officials meet regularly with TfL, London Underground periods. [318897] and Tube Lines to discuss a range of issues, including performance. Chris Mole: The Government have not specified, and My written ministerial statement of 29 October 2009, does not expect, any changes to the current East Coast Official Report, column 28W, set out new contracting Main Line train services at Retford to take place for the and scrutiny arrangements for the ex-Metronet investment next timetable period, commencing in May 2010. The programme. I expect members of the new TfL independent rail industry is developing a new East Coast Main Line advisory panel to be appointed shortly from a shortlist timetable for introduction in May 2011. agreed with the Secretary of State. 1011W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1012W

Parking: Disabled Mr. Khan: The Department for Transport has published guidance on its Emergency Capital Highway Maintenance Mr. Sanders: To ask the Minister of State, Funding Scheme. Authorities, including Essex county Department for Transport what mechanism is available council, may submit a claim for emergency funding to to enable disabled people to challenge service providers repair damage to their roads which they consider was who do not meet the requirements of the Disability caused by the recent severe weather. The Department Discrimination Act 2005 in respect of the adequacy of will carefully consider claims that are received. the provision of parking spaces reserved for use by people with disabilities. [318928] Stagecoach Group: Judicial Review

Mr. Khan: Part 3 of the Disability Discrimination Mr. Cameron: To ask the Minister of State, Act 2005 enables disabled people to challenge service Department for Transport what the status is of the providers to improve the services they offer to disabled judicial review in relation to Stagecoach and people. Disabled people who think they may have been concessionary bus fares. [318577] discriminated against can contact the Equality and Human Rights Commission for information on what Mr. Khan: The major issues relating to the judicial they need to do. reviews by bus operators in the Stagecoach and Go-Ahead Groups, concerning the concessionary bus travel scheme, Railways: Overcrowding were heard at a preliminary hearing in the High Court from 17-20 November 2009. The court’s judgment was Mr. Burns: To ask the Minister of State, Department handed down on 16 February 2010. The judge declined for Transport what progress has been made on the operators’ request for various declarations that would reducing levels of overcrowding on the passenger rail have fundamentally changed the reimbursement service between Chelmsford and London Liverpool arrangements for concessionary travel. Street; and if he will make a statement. [319083] There were also a number of more technical issues that were included in the original applications for judicial Chris Mole: The Department for Transport and National review by Stagecoach and Go-Ahead that were not Express East Anglia entered into a Deed of Amendment considered at the November hearing. We are waiting to to the National Express East Anglia Franchise Agreement hear whether the operators decide to pursue these issues on 1 April 2009. As part of this agreement, from in the light of the judgment. 14 December 2009, nine services a day between Chelmsford The High Court declined permission for the operators and London Liverpool Street have been extended by to appeal to the Court of Appeal. four carriages, providing essential new capacity during The Secretary of State conceded prior to the hearing the morning and evening peaks on the Great Eastern that the appeal determinations in 2007-08 should not Mainline. have specified payment of a fixed amount to the operator In addition to this, additional and lengthened Great in advance of the financial year end. These appeals will Eastern Mainline services are due to be introduced in be re-determined in due course. December 2010 and May 2011. The precise calling pattern for these services is due to be finalised between Tube Lines National Express East Anglia and Network Rail in mid-March 2010. Mr. Touhig: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what discussions his Railways: Rugby Department has had with the Mayor of London on the future role of Tube Lines in the maintenance, renewal Jeremy Wright: To ask the Minister of State, and upgrading of the London Underground network. Department for Transport if he will encourage train [318149] operating companies to increase the provision of rail services between Rugby and Scotland and the North Mr. Khan: Departmental officials have had no discussions West of England; and if he will make a statement. with the Mayor of London on the future role of Tube [319381] Lines. Ministers have regular meetings with the Mayor at which a wide range of transport matters are discussed. Chris Mole: The existing West Coast franchise is due to end in March 2012. Consultation on the detail of the Vehicles: Registration next West Coast franchise will commence 15 to 18 months beforehand. Train operating companies and stakeholders are free to come forward with proposals. Laura Moffatt: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many drivers disputed a claim by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency Roads: Snow and Ice that they had not submitted a statutory off-road notification certificate in the latest period for which Mr. Burns: To ask the Minister of State, Department figures are available. [319565] for Transport what assistance the Government are giving to (a) Essex county council and (b) other local Paul Clark: Information relating to how many drivers authorities to repair potholes and damage to road disputed a claim by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing surfaces following the severe weather in the last two Agency that they had not submitted a statutory off-road winters; and if he will make a statement. [319364] notification is not held. 1013W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1014W

Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, Sarah McCarthy-Fry: HM Treasury supported the Department for Transport how many vehicles built World Wide Fund for Nature’s ‘Earth Hour’ initiative before 1 January 1973 there were registered in the UK in 2009, and this year will also be encouraging staff to in (a) 1997, (b) 2003 and (c) 2009. [319704] switch off non-essential electrical equipment and lights on 27 March. Paul Clark: The following table gives the number of vehicles (rounded to the nearest hundred vehicles) licensed Departmental Pay in Great Britain on 31 December 1997, 2003 and 2008 which were manufactured before 1 January 1973. Dr. Cable: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 7 January 2010, Official Known to be manufactured before Report, column 563W, on departmental pay, how many As at 31 December each year 1 January 1973 and what proportion of staff of his Department 1997 523,500 received both an annual performance bonus and an 2003 493,800 in-year bonus in 2008-09; what the largest combined 2008 473,100 bonus payment to an individual was; what proportion of staff received no bonus; and who was responsible for There are a number of vehicles known to be used awarding such bonuses. [313131] before their date of first registration in Great Britain whose date of manufacture is unknown. At 31 December 2008 there were 51,000 such vehicles. It is likely that the Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Non-consolidated awards are large majority of these are modern imported vehicles, paid in two circumstances. First, performance awards but a small proportion may have been manufactured are those linked to the annual staff appraisal system. before 1973. Directorates are responsible for setting up performance review teams to award non-consolidated awards as part Data are not yet available for vehicles licensed on of the appraisal process. 31 December 2009. Secondly, special bonuses are those paid to recognise The Department does not hold data on vehicles exceptional performance for specific contributions or licensed in Northern Ireland. pieces of work during the year or situations outside the normal expectations of the post. Directorates are also responsible for the award of special bonus awards. TREASURY In 2008-09, 15 per cent. of full-time equivalent staff in post (191 individuals) were paid both a performance Child Benefit: Glasgow award and a special bonus, with the largest combined Mr. Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer bonus payment to an Individual being £14,000, with 39 how many parents and guardians in Glasgow North per cent. of staff in post receiving neither a performance East constituency have received child benefit since award nor a special bonus. 2004. [319972] The Permanent Secretary is responsible for awarding bonuses, with the exception of his own, which is the Mr. Timms: Information on the number of households responsibility of the Cabinet Secretary. benefiting from child benefit, by each parliamentary constituency, from 2004 to 2007 is published in the Departmental Theft HMRC publication ″Child Benefit Statistics. Geographical Analyses August 2007″, available at: Mr. Watson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/child_benefit/chb-geog- how many thefts from his Department have been aug07.pdf recorded in the last two years. [318991] A breakdown of this information by parents and guardians is not available, as HMRC does not hold this Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The numbers of thefts from information. the Department recorded in the last two calendar years are four in 2008 and six in 2009. Community Infrastructure Levy Empty Property Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether his Department has classified Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the community infrastructure levy as a form of taxation. Exchequer what definition of the term (a) actual and [319631] (b) vacant is used for the purposes of property returns Mr. Timms: The independent Office for National for the e-PIMS database; and what proportion of Statistics (ONS) will decide on the classification of the central Government property is recorded on that community infrastructure levy (CIL) in line with European database. [319805] statistical guidance. The ONS will consider the classification of the CIL once regulations to implement CIL are Ian Pearson: The definitions of the terms vacant and approved by Parliament. actual are only used in the context of vacant space recorded on e-PIMS, Space that is vacant remains the Departmental Energy responsibility of the owning department. Actual vacant space refers to space that is currently available, as Dan Rogerson: To ask the Chancellor of the opposed to potential vacant space (that might become Exchequer what steps his Department plans to take to available in the future but no specific date has been participate in the Earth Hour event on 27 March 2010. identified) or future vacant space (that is planned to be [319102] available at a specific date). 1015W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1016W

100 per cent. of property records within the mandated Mr. Timms: The information is not currently available estate are entered on e-PIMS. at constituency level. Inheritance tax data is based on a UK wide sample of cases which is designed to produce Excise Duties: Alcoholic Drinks national level figures and the size of the sample means that HMRC cannot reliably estimate the number of Dr. Fox: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer taxpayers below a regional level. how much revenue has accrued to the Exchequer from duty on sales of cider in each year since 2005. [319517] Insurance: Buildings

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Historical receipts of duty collected Peter Bottomley: To ask the Chancellor of the from cider can be found in Table 2 of the HM Revenue Exchequer if he will bring forward proposals to give and Customs Beer and Cider Duties Bulletin, available the Financial Services Authority the power to consider at: cases of unreasonable buildings insurance premiums https://www.uktradeinfo.com/index.cfm?task=bullbeer charged by freeholders of rented or leasehold property. [319671] Government Departments: Carbon Emissions Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Remedies already exist for Mr. Amess: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer leaseholders to establish whether or not the insurance what progress has been made against the 2006 target to premium they are asked to pay or contribute towards by reduce carbon emissions from road vehicles used for way of service charges is reasonable. Government administrative operations by 15 per cent. Where a leaseholder considers that a freeholder has by 2010-11 relative to 2005-06 levels. [319344] overcharged in respect of the building insurance premium (or their contribution towards it), they have a right to Ian Pearson: Government have a target to reduce take the case to a leasehold valuation tribunal for a carbon emissions from road vehicles used for administrative determination of the reasonableness of the insurance. purposes by 15 per cent. by 2010 relative to a 2005-06 baseline. Overall the Government are on track to achieve Leave this target, the current overall reduction against the baseline year is 17 per cent. Data supporting this delivery Mr. Amess: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer figure have been supplied by Departments and published. what the average number of contracted days’ paid The latest assessment of Government’s performance holiday was in the (a) public and (b) private sector on against this target was published by the Office of each industrial category in the most recent year for Government Commerce (OGC) on 18 December 2009, which information is available. [318634] and is available on the OGC website: http://www.ogc.gov.uk/sustainability_programme_progress.asp Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. The information requested falls within the responsibility Inheritance Tax: Dundee of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Stewart Hosie: To ask the Chancellor of the Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: Exchequer what revenue accrued to the Exchequer from inheritance tax levied on estates in Dundee East As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking constituency in the last five years. [319568] what the average number of contracted days’ paid holiday was in the (a) public and (b) private sector by industrial category in the Mr. Timms: The information is not currently available most recent year for which information is available. (318634) at a constituency level. Inheritance tax data are based The latest available estimates of average paid holiday entitlement on a UK-wide sample of cases which is designed to per year are provided in the attached table. The estimates are produce national level figures and the size of the sample derived from data collected in the Labour Force Survey (LFS) in means that HMRC cannot reliably estimate tax receipts Q4 2009. The distinction between public and private sector is below a regional level. based on the respondent’s understanding of the organisation for which they work. Inheritance Tax: Housing As with any sample survey, the estimates provided are subject to a margin of uncertainty. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Paid holiday entitlement for employees by sector. Three months ending Exchequer on how many estates in the UK inheritance December, 2009. United Kingdom, not seasonally adjusted Average paid holiday entitlement tax was paid in each year since 1996. [319664] (days per year)1 Mr. Timms: The number of estates on which UK Public Sector2 Total 29 inheritance tax was paid is available at: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_receipts/table1-4.xls Private Sector Total 21

Inheritance Tax: Leeds Private Sector by main industry3 sector: Agriculture, forestry and fishing 19 Greg Mulholland: To ask the Chancellor of the Energy and water 25 Exchequer how much revenue accrued to the Manufacturing 22 Exchequer from inheritance tax on estates in Leeds Construction 21 North West constituency in the last five years. [319498] Distribution, hotels and restaurants 18 1017W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1018W

Paid holiday entitlement for employees by sector. Three months ending stations in the 1995 Rating Lists were identified using December, 2009. United Kingdom, not seasonally adjusted Valuation Office Agency (VOA) Special Category (SCAT) Average paid holiday entitlement (days per year)1 code 222. As at 1 April 1997 there were 11,870 in England and Transport and communication 23 1,050 in Wales. Banking, finance and other business 22 services In the Draft 2010 Rating Lists petrol filling stations Public administration, education and 22 are under SCAT 209. health As at 2 November there were 5,650 in England and Other services 18 440 in Wales. Non-Domestic Rates: Retail Trade Total4 23 1 Excludes public holidays Lorely Burt: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2 Includes nationalised industry or state corporation, central Government, civil what the total rateable value is of hereditaments service, local government or council (incl. police, fire services and local authority controlled schools or colleges), university or other grant funded educational classified as retail properties; and for how many such establishment, health authority or NHS trust and armed forces. properties the rateable value is (a) under £5,000, (b) 3 According to the Standard Industrial Classification (SIC) 1992. between £5,000 and £14,999, (c) between £15,000 and 4 Includes those whose type of employer was not known. Source: £24,999, (d) between £25,000 and £49,999, (e) ONS Labour Force Survey between £50,000 and £99,999, (f) between £100,000 and £499,999 and (g) at least £500,000. [316909] Non-Domestic Rates: Garages and Petrol Stations: Ian Pearson [holding answer 22 February 2010]: The Valuation Office Agency Identifies the various types of property contained in the Rating Lists by the use of a Robert Neill: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Specialist (SCAT) code. how many petrol retail stations were on the Valuation These data are consistent with the statistical release Office Agency’s Rating List in 1997; and how many titled: ″Non-domestic Rateable Values: 2010 Local Ratings there are on the 2010 Rating List. [317803] Lists—England and Wales″, published on 18 December 2009. A copy of the statistical release is available at the Ian Pearson: As the hon. Member will be aware, there following link: have been some significant changes in the structure of http://www.voa.gov.uk/publications/statistical_releases/ petrol retailing over the past 15 years. Petrol filling VOA_Statistics_Release_Final.pdf

Properties with a ’Retail’ SCAT code of 021, 024, 086, 097, 098, 106, 139, 152, 154, 155, 210, 235, 243, 249, 251, 417, 425, 429, 442, 504, 507, 508 England Wales Total Number Number Number. hereditaments Total rateable hereditaments Total rateable hereditaments Total rateable Rateable value (Thousand) value (£ million) (Thousand) value (£ million) (Thousand) value (£ million)

Below 5,000 142 447 12 35 154 482 Between 5,000 and 14,999 195 1,696 10 82 205 1,779 Between 15,000 and 24,999 52 988 2 45 54 1,033 Between 25,000 and 49,999 40 1,400 2 63 42 1,463 Between 50,000 and 99,999 22 1,543 1 69 23 1,613 Between 100,000 and 499,999 21 4,223 1 208 22 4,431 500,000 or over 4 4,458 0 204 4 4,662 Total 476 14,755 29 707 505 15,462

Pension Credit: Leeds Revenue and Customs: Surveillance Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many (a) requests and (b) approvals Greg Mulholland: To ask the Chancellor of the for authorisation for HM Revenue and Customs to Exchequer how many pensioners resident in Leeds carry out (a) property interference, (b) intrusive North West constituency have been contacted as part surveillance and (c) covert human intelligence sources of his Department’s pension credit tax back campaign. there have been in each of the last five years. [319632] [319497] Mr. Timms: The Chief Surveillance Commissioner, Sir Christopher Rose, publishes a yearly figure for property Sarah McCarthy-Fry: As part of the Taxback campaign interference, intrusive surveillance and covert human announced at Budget 2009, HM Revenue and Customs intelligence sources for all police forces and other agencies, have contacted all 3.4 million beneficiaries of pension including HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), in his credit to encourage those who are overpaying tax on annual report to Parliament. Sir Christopher does not their bank and building society interest to claim it back break the figure into individual forces or agencies as the and, where eligible, to register to receive future interest sensitivity of the information could lead to criminals payments without tax deducted. The latest information assessing the covert capability of each force and agency. on the number of pension credit beneficiaries (August This applies equally to HMRC and it is therefore not 2009), shows that there were 3,680 beneficiaries in the considered to be in the public Interest to make this Leeds, North-West parliamentary constituency. information available. 1019W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1020W

Stamp Duty Land Tax Taxation

Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr. Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what consideration he has given to the Exchequer how many self-assessment forms required merits of restricting firms from using offshore clerical action in (a) 2006, (b) 2007, (c) 2008 and (d) companies to avoid stamp duty land tax. [319628] 2009; and for what reasons a self-assessment case may require clerical action. [316950] Mr. Timms: Tax avoidance has the potential to damage the public finances and the provision of public services. Mr. Timms: Information on the circumstances in HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) monitors all aspects which clerical action may be required on a self-assessment of tax avoidance closely on a continuous basis, advising (SA) return is contained in Her Majesty Revenue and Ministers accordingly. Customs’ SA instruction manual, available at: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/SA/index.htm Tax Allowances The information requested on how many self-assessment returns required clerical action is available only at Angela Browning: To ask the Chancellor of the disproportionate cost as HMRC’s systems do not capture Exchequer (1) if he will estimate the cost to the this. Exchequer in each financial year from 2010-11 to 2013-14 of introducing a transferable personal Taxation: Business allowance, limited to the basic rate of income tax, for all married couples and couples in civil partnerships Jim Cousins: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with children under the age of six; [312934] what estimate he has made of the (a) number of (2) if he will estimate the cost to the Exchequer in companies which have taken up the three-year carry- each financial year from 2010-11 to 2013-14 of back of losses option since its implementation and (b) introducing a transferable personal allowance, limited monetary value of trading losses carried forward under to the basic rate of income tax, for all married couples section 393 of the Income and Corporation Taxes and couples in civil partnerships with children under Act 1988 in (i) 2007-08, (ii) 2008-09 and (iii) 2009-10. [319335] the age of three; [312935] (3) if he will estimate the cost to the Exchequer in Mr. Timms: In addition to the unincorporated businesses each financial year from 2010-11 to 2013-14 of it has supported, HM Revenue and Customs estimated introducing a transferable personal allowance, limited that approximately 11,000 companies have so far used to the basic rate of income tax, for all couples with the temporary extension of loss carry-back for trading children under the age of six; [312936] losses from one year to three years for losses up to (4) if he will estimate the cost to the Exchequer in £50,000. each financial year from 2010-11 to 2013-14 of The information requested on the pools of trading introducing a transferable personal allowance, limited losses carried forward are available only at disproportionate to the basic rate of income tax, for all couples with cost, as they are not directly available from the ‘C7 600 children under the age of three. [312937] Company Self Assessment Return’. (5) if he will estimate the cost to the Exchequer in each financial year from 2010-11 to 2013-14 of Valuation Office Agency: Internet introducing a transferable personal allowance, limited to the basic rate of income tax, for all married couples Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the and couples in civil partnerships. [312943] Exchequer on how many occasions the Valuation Office Agency’s public website has been offline in the Mr. Timms [holding answers 25 and 28 February last 12 months. [319634] 2010]: Due to the complex nature of these questions the following estimates should be treated with caution. Ian Pearson: The Valuation Office Agency’s public These estimates exclude any behavioural response to the website has had no unscheduled downtime in the last change, which could be significant given the magnitude 12 months. It was offline for scheduled maintenance of the change. This has the additional implication of between 08:00 on 30 May 2009 to 18:00 on 31 May 2009 limiting reliable modelling of costs to 2010-11. and 08:00 on 21 November 2009 to 18:00 on 22nd The estimated cost in 2010-11 of allowing personal November 2009. tax allowances to be transferable, limited to the basic rate of income tax, for the specified groups would be: Valuation Office Agency: Manpower £0.6 billion for all couples with children under the age of three; £1.0 billion for all couples with children under the age of six; Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many and what proportion of the £0.5 billion for all married couples and couples in civil partnerships Valuation Office Agency’s (a) staff and (b) council with children under the age of three; tax inspectors are (i) male and (ii) female. [319629] £0.8 billion for all married couples and couples in civil partnerships with children under the age of six; Ian Pearson: The proportion of the Valuation Office £4.2 billion for all married couples and couples in civil partnerships. Agency’s staff who are male is 55 and 45 are female. These estimates have been calculated using HM Within the generic rating and council tax inspector role, Treasury’s tax and benefit micro-simulation model using 49 are male and 51 female. These figures are based on Family Resources survey 2007-08 data. data as at 2 February 2010 1021W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1022W

Valuation Office Agency: North East Mr. Timms: The latest information on the number of households benefiting from tax credits, by each Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Chancellor of the parliamentary constituency from 2003 to 2009, is available ″ Exchequer how many Valuation Office Agency staff in in the HMRC snapshot publication Child and Working ″ offices in (a) the North East and (b) North Tax Credits Statistics. Geographical Analyses , available Lincolnshire worked on the separate rating of port at: businesses in each year since 1997. [319448] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- stats.htm Ian Pearson: The VOA does not keep records of the The same information for 2008-09 is not yet available number of staff involved in the assessment of separate as awards have not yet been finalised. However, estimates hereditaments within statutory ports going back to of the number of recipient families with tax credits, 1997. Staff involved in work on the ports undertake based on provisional awards, as at 1 December 2009, general rating work in other locations and work in are available in the HMRC snapshot publication “Child other business streams. and Working Tax Credits Statistics. Geographical analyses. December 2009”, at the same internet address. VAT: Local Government HMRC do not produce these statistics separately for child tax credit and working tax credit. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member Welfare Tax Credits: Na h-Eileanan an Iar for Bromley and Chislehurst of 11 January 2010, Official Report, column 783W, on VAT: local Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Chancellor of the government, how much was paid in value added tax Exchequer how many people were in receipt of tax refunds to local authorities consequent on judicial credits in Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency in the rulings in (a) 2007-08 and (b) 2008-09. [319643] latest period for which figures are available; and what the average weekly payment in such credits was in that Mr. Timms: HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) constituency in that period. [319018] currently estimates that around £2 million was repaid in 2007-08 to local authorities and around £40 million in Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The latest information on the 2008-09 in respect of the judgment in Fleming/Conde number of households benefiting from tax credits, by Nast. HMRC does not routinely collect information on each parliamentary constituency, is available in the the overall level of refunds to local authorities as a HMRC snapshot publication “Child and Working Tax result of litigation rulings. Credits Statistics. Geographical Analyses. December 2009”, available at: Welfare Tax Credits: Aberdeenshire http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- dec09.pdf Mr. Salmond: To ask the Chancellor of the As incomes and entitlements for 2009-10 have yet to Exchequer how many individuals in Banff and Buchan be finalised, equivalent information on the average weekly constituency receive tax credits; and what the average payment is not yet available. The latest available information weekly level of such credits was in the latest period for on the average annual payment of tax credits to households, which figures are available. [319345] by each parliamentary constituency, is available in the HMRC publication “Child and Working Tax Credits Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The latest information on the Statistics Finalised annual awards. Geographical analyses number of households benefiting from tax credits, by 2007-08”, available at: each parliamentary constituency, is available in the HMRC snapshot publication “Child and Working Tax http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- Credits Statistics. Geographical Analyses. December payments-0708.pdf 2009”, available: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- dec09.pdf WORK AND PENSIONS As incomes and entitlements for 2009-10 have yet to be finalised, equivalent information on the average weekly payment is not yet available. The latest information on Carers’ Benefits the average annual payment of tax credits to households, by each parliamentary constituency, is available in the Mr. Touhig: To ask the Secretary of State for Work HMRC publication “Child and Working Tax Credits and Pensions in what circumstances an asset owned by Statistics Finalised annual awards. Geographical analyses a carer in receipt of the carer’s allowance may be 2007-08”, available at: disregarded for the purposes of an application for http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- income support. [318143] payments-0708.pdf Jonathan Shaw: Carers are treated in the same way as Welfare Tax Credits: Glasgow other income support customers when considering the effect an asset has on income support. Mr. Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Income support has a lower capital limit of £6,000 how many people in Glasgow North East constituency (or £10,000 for people permanently living in a care have received (a) child tax credit and (b) working tax home) above which benefit is reduced and an upper credit since 2004. [319971] limit of £16,000 above which benefit cannot be paid. 1023W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1024W

The value of most forms of capital, which includes staff after they leave the Department and no estimate savings and assets, is counted when calculating entitlement has been made of how many remain working in the to income support; however some forms of capital asset public sector. are disregarded. Income support rules on treatment of capital are extensive but the most common scenarios Departmental Public Expenditure are covered as follows. All personal possessions belonging to an income Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work support customer are disregarded with the exception of and Pensions (1) how much of the additional £5 billion those acquired by the customer with the intention of announced in (a) pre-Budget report 2008 and (b) the reducing savings in order to secure entitlement to, or Budget 2009 has been allocated to (i) Jobcentre Plus, increase the amount of, income support. (ii) Flexible New Deal, (iii) the Future Jobs Fund, (iv) Certain forms of cash asset are disregarded when the Young Persons Guarantee, (v) the six month offer calculating entitlement to income support, for example, and (vi) other employment-related programmes; money derived from a personal injury compensation [309330] payment that is held in a trust fund. In addition certain (2) what estimate she has made of the underspend other compensation payments are ignored such as payments from planned budgets for the additional £5 billion to the customer made as a result of a person’s imprisonment announced in the (a) pre-Budget report 2008 and (b) by the Japanese during the second world war and payments Budget 2009 in respect of expenditure on (i) Jobcentre made to compensate for slave or forced labour during Plus, (ii) Flexible New Deal, (iii) the Future Jobs Fund, the second world war. Other types of cash asset can also (iv) the Young Persons Guarantee, (v) the six month be ignored, for example, certain lump sum payments for offer and (vi) other employment-related programmes; arrears of benefit and payments made by specific trusts [309331] and funds that have been set up in order to help people who have been infected by blood products. (3) how much her Department has reallocated consequent on the rate of claimant unemployment at No account is taken of the value of a property that a the time of Budget 2009; from what budgets that person occupies as their home, while the value of any money has been reallocated; and to which budgets it second property is normally treated as capital. However has been transferred; [309332] the Government do recognise that there are certain circumstances where it would be impractical and unfair (4) how much of the additional £5 billion announced to take the value of a second property into account. An in the (a) pre-Budget report 2008 and (b) Budget 2009 example of this is that, once a property is put up for has been spent. [309350] sale, the value can be ignored for up to 26 weeks, or longer where reasonable steps are being taken to sell it. Jim Knight: In the pre-Budget report 2008, and Budget 2009, the Chancellor announced that additional investment of up to £5 billion discretionary spending would be Departmental ICT made available as a response to the recession. The following table shows how this £5 billion was allocated: Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much her Department has £ million allocated for the (a) procurement, (b) maintenance, pre-Budget Budget (c) compliance testing and (d) security of information report 2008 2009 technology systems in 2010-11. [313375] Jobcentre Plus and other corporate 871 1,005 expenditure Jim Knight: The information is not held centrally in Employment Providers and Local 461 709 the format requested and therefore cannot be provided. Authorities (for the administration of Housing Benefit) Departmental Internet Six month offer n/a 511 Future Jobs Fund and Young Person’s n/a 1,208 Guarantee Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Support for Mortgage Interest 135 135 and Pensions how many designs for its website her Department has commissioned since 2005. [318638] Of the £5 billion additional investment, £2.1 billion is allocated to 2009-10 and £2.9 billion to 2010-11. The Jonathan Shaw: The Department has commissioned precise allocation of this resource within the Department one redesign for the DWP Corporate website since is set out in our three-year business plan, a copy of 2005. This redesign was launched in June 2009. which is in the House of Commons Library. The number of people claiming jobseeker’s allowance Departmental Manpower at the end of 2009 was over 450,000 lower than the NAO audited assumption at the time of Budget 2009. If Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State unemployment follows the revised NAO audited assumption for Work and Pensions what estimate she has made of set out in the pre-Budget report 2009, benefit expenditure the proportion of staff of (a) her Department and (b) would be around £10 billion lower over the next five its agencies managed out in the last five years who years than forecast at Budget 2009. This has also led to remain working in the public sector. [313845] savings from the Department’s budget and allows us to reprioritise £400 million over the next 18 months to Jonathan Shaw: The Department and its agencies do fund the measures set out in “Building Britain’s Recovery: not hold information on the employment of former Achieving Full Employment”. 1025W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1026W

The Department keeps financial allocations to its Their role is to challenge existing complexity across programmes under constant review and will publish the benefits system, and to ensure that the move towards updated budgets in the revised three-year Business Plan, a simpler, more transparent system is at the heart of which will be published before the end of the current future benefit design and delivery. financial year. Progress on simplification is reported on annually in the departmental report, and the effectiveness of the Departmental Public Relations unit is reflected in the extent to which key performance indicators are met across the Department, where these Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work indicators are partly dependent on the complexity of and Pensions how much her Department spent on (a) the system. communications, (b) marketing, (c) advertising and Simplification measures—both of benefit rules and (d) external public relations in 2009. [317162] ease of customer access—introduced since the unit was set up include: Jonathan Shaw: The DWP communications team has a wide-ranging remit to support the delivery of the ignoring all final earnings on new claims to benefit (from October 2007). This got rid of a complex and error-prone part Department’s objectives. This includes communicating of assessing initial benefit entitlement; with staff, the public, business and stakeholders on the help and support available throughout the downturn, the national roll-out of local housing allowance (April 2008), a major shift in the way housing payments are made in the eligibility for entitlements, pensions, additional help private rented sector which makes them simpler and speedier and support as well as encouraging saving for later life. to administer; The team works right across the breadth of the Department’s responsibilities and includes providing the introduction of employment and support allowance (October 2008), removed confusion resulting from the availability of two services for Jobcentre Plus and the Pensions, Disability benefits for people who are ill or disabled—incapacity benefit, and Carers Service. and income support—by replacing them with one simpler Spend information is available for financial years benefit for this client group; rather than calendar years. Fully audited figures for paying all working age benefits on a common payday (to be spend on advertising for 2009-10 are not available at completed by April 2011) instead of confusingly different this time. Therefore data supplied is for the 2008-09 paydays; financial year. extending the Rapid Reclaim process since the last claim for During 2008-09 financial year a total of £42.283 million jobseeker’s allowance and income support from 12 to 26 was spent by DWP on all communication services. This weeks, providing a speedier service, with less form-filling; total covers the spend with external marketing and transferring all our benefit internet services to Directgov, the communication suppliers but does not include internal main public services website. Customers can now get advice on staff costs and any communications interim personnel. what to claim on the benefit adviser and track the progress of In addition a further £1.735 million was spent on Marketing claims via the secure Benefit Enquiry service. and Publicity services through the Department’s Print and Associated Services contract with iON during the 2008-09 period. These figures are against overall DWP Departmental Telephone Services running costs in 2008-09 of £7.9 billion (0.56 per cent. of overall spend). Harry Cohen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Included in this, DWP spent £12.327 million on and Pensions what recent estimate she has made of the advertising in this period. All costs are exclusive of proportion of benefit and pension claimants calling her VAT, COI fees, advertising rebates and audit adjustments Department’s telephone inquiry lines from mobile and are for media spend only. They also exclude the cost telephones who are not to be charged for the cost of of creative work, research, production of supporting the call; and if she will make a statement. [317378] materials or launch events. Again, included in the overall figure was a total of £1.2 million was spent by DWP on external public Jonathan Shaw: The Department’s policy is that all relations during 2008-09. calls to claim the state pension, jobseekers’ allowance, employment support allowance as well as to ask for Departmental Responsibilities emergency payments or crisis loans, should be free. These 0800 numbers are already free from land lines, which around 70 per cent. of our callers use. The recent Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work agreement with the five biggest UK mobile providers and Pensions how many of her Department’s staff at means that calls from their mobile phone networks to each grade work in the Benefit Simplification Unit; these specific 0800 numbers will now be free to their what targets have been set for the Unit; what recent customers as well. progress reports the Unit has published; what recommendations the Unit has made since its The Department uses 0845 telephone numbers where inception; and how many such recommendations have its customers call for other reasons, and these are calls been implemented. [318794] that typically that take less time to resolve. The charges that apply to these calls will be set by the customer’s Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 25 February 2010]: telephone or mobile operator. The Benefit Simplification Unit has three full-time staff Where a customer calling our 0800 or 0845 services (one SEO and two HEOs) with additional input from a asks us, or raises concerns over the cost of the call, we senior civil servant (Grade 5) and a Grade 7. will offer to call them back. 1027W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1028W

Employment and Support Allowance Employment Schemes

Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions for what reasons 36 per cent. of and Pensions what job outcome evidence her employment support allowance cases conducted Department has collected for (a) the day one offer, (b) between October 2008 and February 2009 were closed the six month offer, (c) support for unemployed before their assessment was completed. [318174] professionals and executives and (d) the Flexible New Jonathan Shaw: A detailed breakdown of the information Deal since that scheme was introduced. [309339] is not available. Jim Knight: Information on job outcomes as a direct There are many reasons why a claim may be closed consequence of the day one offer, which includes support before the assessment is complete, including people that for unemployed professionals and executives, is not only need to claim benefit for a short period of time due available. to a short-term illness or those who claim employment and support allowance completely in error. The Six Month Offer has a number of elements including the Recruitment Subsidy, Self Employment As part of the evaluation of employment and support Credit, Work-Focused Training and Volunteering. Official allowance we will be conducting research to examine in statistics were published on 20 January 2010 which more detail those claims that are withdrawn before the showed that between April 2009 and October 2009: assessment is completed. 15,530 jobseeker’s allowance customers have used the Recruitment Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Subsidy; and Pensions when she expects a system for the central 5,310 jobseeker’s allowance customers have taken up the Self holding of information relating to personal capability Employment Credit. assessment and claims for incapacity benefit to be The first statistics on Work-Focused Training were introduced. [318175] published on 17 February 2010. We are investigating the feasibility of reporting Work-Focused Training job Jonathan Shaw: We do not expect to develop a system outcomes for future publications of Six Month Offer that would track individuals claiming incapacity benefit statistics. We are also looking into how we can calculate through the assessment process. Incapacity benefit was job outcomes for the Volunteering Offer as part of the replaced by employment support allowance for new official statistics publication. claimants in October 2008 and systems have been put in The Flexible New Deal started on 5 October and place for the tracking of people who claim employment official statistics will be available from autumn 2010. support allowance. We do not intend to put systems in place for retrospectively tracking the result of assessment Employment Schemes: Females for historical claims.

Employment and Support Allowance: Disabled Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what steps her Department has taken to Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work help new female claimants of jobseeker’s allowance to and Pensions (1) how many and what proportion of find long-term employment in the last 12 months. applicants for employment and support allowance have [313526] been classified as disabled; [318287] Jim Knight: All JSA customers are treated according (2) how many and what proportion of applicants for to their individual circumstances, in keeping with a employment and support allowance who have been personalised and professional service and have the same diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease have been classified access to the wide range of initiatives to help them as disabled; [318288] return to work. (3) how many and what proportion of applicants for All departmental policies are subject to an Equality employment and support allowance who were Impact Assessment and after implementation take up previously in receipt of incapacity benefit have been of programmes is monitored, including by gender, for classified as disabled; [318289] further development of design and delivery. (4) how many and what proportion of applicants for employment and support allowance who have been Employment Schemes: Young People diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease and who were previously in receipt of incapacity benefit have been Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work classified as disabled; [318290] and Pensions (1) in which (a) Jobcentre Plus districts, (5) what percentage of applicants for employment (b) local authorities and (c) constituencies Future and support allowance diagnosed with fibromyalgia Jobs Fund jobs are not available to young people as have been classified as disabled; [318396] part of the young person’s guarantee; [317615] (6) what percentage of applicants for employment (2) in which (a) Jobcentre Plus districts, (b) local and support allowance diagnosed with fibromyalgia authorities and (c) constituencies not all of the who had previously been in receipt of incapacity elements of the young person’s guarantee are available; benefit have been classified as disabled. [318397] and which such elements are (i) available and (ii) not available in each such area. [317616] Jonathan Shaw: The information is not available. Information on whether a claimant is disabled or not Jim Knight: In principle the YoungPerson’s Guarantee, is not recorded for the purposes of employment and including the Future Jobs Fund, is available in all support allowance. Jobcentre Plus districts, in all local authorities and in all 1029W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1030W constituencies, dependent on there being successful bids jobs announced to date for which it is possible to in these areas. In Scotland and Wales the training ascertain the location, how many are expected to be element of the Young Person’s Guarantee is provided created in each local authority area; [317646] by the devolved administrations. (2) how many of the jobs announced to date are expected to be created in each constituency. [317647] Employment: Scotland Jim Knight: Data on the Future Jobs Fund are not Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for collected by local authority or by constituency, and as Work and Pensions what estimate her Department has such the data of how many jobs are to be created in made of the number of people seeking employment in each are not available. the (a) engineering industry, (b) life sciences sector, (c) renewable energy industry and (d) construction Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Work industry in Scotland. [317737] and Pensions how many jobs in (a) the arts and (b) the media have been created under the Future Jobs Jim Knight: The information is not available, in the Fund since its inception. [318595] format requested. Mr. Bradshaw: I have been asked to reply. Future Jobs Fund My Department is working closely with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and we have created Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work more than 6,500 job opportunities in the culture and and Pensions how many accepted Future Jobs Fund sports sectors under the Future Jobs Fund. bids were initially rejected. [304388] Incapacity Benefit Jim Knight: Where bidding organisations fail to meet the Future Jobs Fund assessment criteria they are provided Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work with feedback and offered further support from DWP, and Pensions what recent estimate her Department has Jobcentre Plus and the Government Office network to made of the (a) number and (b) proportion of current enable them to improve and submit their bids. As a claimants of incapacity benefit who are not required to result of this process, so far, 38 of the initially rejected meet any conditions in order to continue to receive the organisations have subsequently successful. benefit. [317945]

Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jonathan Shaw: All recipients of incapacity benefits and Pensions how many accepted Future Jobs Fund must meet the conditions of entitlement in order to qualify for benefit. bids are expected to create fewer than 30 jobs. [304391] Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jim Knight: 272 bids to the Future Jobs Fund have and Pensions how many and what proportion of been accepted, which will create up to 110,000 Future off-flows from incapacity benefit have been due to Jobs Fund jobs. claimants moving into work in each year since 1997. We encourage partnership bids but would not necessarily [317946] rule out bids for fewer than 30 jobs. So far, 18 of the 272 accepted bids are expected to Jonathan Shaw: The information requested is not create fewer than 30 jobs. available.

Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit and Pensions what estimate has been made of the number of jobs each accepted Future Jobs Fund bid John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work will create. [304392] and Pensions what the qualifying criteria are for industrial injuries disablement benefit for those with Jim Knight: To date 255 bids have been successful osteoarthritis of the knee. [318242] and the Department for Work and Pensions has agreed to fund around 110,000 jobs. Jonathan Shaw: In order to be entitled to industrial injuries disablement benefit (IIDB) in respect of Margaret Moran: To ask the Secretary of State for osteoarthritis of the knee a person must satisfy criteria Work and Pensions (1) how many social enterprises based on occupation and the level of disablement caused have participated in the Future Jobs Fund; [315107] by the disease. (2) how many jobs created under the Future Jobs The occupational criteria are as follows: Fund have been in (a) local authorities and (b) third Underground work as a coal miner up to the end sector organisations. [315105] of 1985. If the work was after 1985, a person must have Jim Knight: The information is not available in the worked underground in one of the following occupations: requested format. face worker working on a non-mechanised coal face; or development worker; or Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) pursuant to the answer of 2 February face-salvage worker; or 2010 to the hon. Member for South Dorset, Official conveyor belt cleaner; or Report, column 258W, on the Future Jobs Fund, of the conveyor belt attendant. 1031W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1032W

In total at least 10 years must be spent in the occupation. Jim Knight [holding answer 25 February 2010]: The Pre and post 1985 periods of employment in the relevant information is in the following yearly table: occupation can count towards the 10 year total. If a person satisfies the occupational criteria the case Chesterfield constituency Derbyshire England is referred to medical services for advice on the level of disablement. For IIDB purposes, disablement is assessed 2005 by making a comparison with a person of the same age January 10 30 2,650 and sex whose physical and mental condition is normal. February 10 30 2,460 In each case, advice on the assessment of disablement March — 20 2,220 and the likely duration is given by a doctor specially April — 20 2,710 trained in industrial injuries disablement matters. May 10 30 2,080 June 10 20 1,910 John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work July 10 20 2,520 and Pensions by what means the proportion of August 10 40 1,960 disablement is determined for former miners making a September 10 30 3,100 claim for industrial injuries disablement benefit in October 10 30 2,370 respect of osteoarthritis of the knee. [318259] November 10 30 2,300 Jonathan Shaw: The level of disablement for all customers December — 10 1,470 who claim industrial injuries disablement benefit in respect of diseases and accidents caused by occupation 2006 is assessed as a percentage up to 100 per cent. The January — 10 2,140 percentage determines the level of payment. February — 20 2,230 The customer will normally be asked to attend a March — 30 2,530 medical examination carried out by a trained health April — 10 1,450 care professional appointed by the Secretary of State May — 20 1,620 for Work and Pensions, who will provide the decision-maker June — 10 1,870 with advice on the level of disablement in each case, July — 10 1,470 taking account of all the evidence available and comparing August 10 20 1,420 the customers condition as a result of the effects of the September — 20 2,170 prescribed disease or accident with that of a normal October — 10 1,740 healthy person of the same age and sex. November — 10 1,850 December — 10 1,430 Jobcentre Plus: Expenditure

Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2007 and Pensions how much Jobcentre Plus in each region January — 10 2,320 has spent on (a) redundancies and (b) recruitment in February 10 20 2,570 each month since January 2009; and if she will make a March 10 30 3,710 statement. [300692] April — 20 2,050 May 10 30 2,250 Jim Knight: The information is not available in the June 10 30 2,580 format requested. July 10 20 2,150 August 10 20 2,490 Jobseeker’s Allowance September — 20 2,670 October 10 40 2,850 Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work November 10 40 3,520 and Pensions how many claimants of jobseeker’s December — 20 1,500 allowance have been identified through the Labour Market System as being unemployed for 22 out of 24 months in the latest period for which figures are 2008 available. [317628] January — 20 2,630 February 10 40 3,650 Jim Knight: The information from the Labour Market March — 20 2,380 System is not currently available. April 10 30 2,650 We are not able to provide alternative information for May 10 20 2,990 all current claimants from the jobseeker’s allowance June 10 30 2,660 databases (rather than the Labour Market System) because July 10 30 2,560 this would involve complex data linking and analysis August — 20 3,020 and would be possible only at a disproportionate cost. September 10 30 3,160 October 10 40 3,560 New Deal for Lone Parents November — 20 2,350 December 10 20 1,290 Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many young people aged between 16 and 24 years old in (a) Chesterfield, (b) Derbyshire 2009 and (c) England have taken part in the New Deal for January — 20 2,330 Lone Parents in each month since January 2005. February — 20 1,880 [318768] March 10 20 1,990 1033W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1034W

Numbers of people starting on New Deal for Partners 2005 to November 2009 Chesterfield Chesterfield constituency Derbyshire England constituency Derbyshire England April — 10 1,490 November — 10 160 May 10 30 1,970 December — 10 150 June — 30 1,610 July 10 40 2,090 2007 August 10 40 1,760 September — 40 2,250 January — 10 180 October 10 50 2,710 February — — 200 November 10 40 2,100 March — — 240 Notes: April — — 140 1. Definitions and conventions: “—” denotes nil or negligible. Figures are May — 10 140 rounded to the nearest 10. June — 10 180 2. Westminster parliamentary constituency: allocated (post May 2005) using the ONS postcode directory and customer’s postcode. July — 10 150 3. The county of Derbyshire includes the local authorities: Amber Valley, August — — 120 Bolsover, Chesterfield, Derbyshire Dales, Erewash, High Peak, North East September — — 150 Derbyshire, and South Derbyshire. 4. Time series—month of starting: the calendar month of starting New Deal for October — 10 120 Lone Parents. The latest data are to November 2009. November — — 160 Source: December — — 80 Department for Work and Pensions Information Directorate New Deal for Partners 2008 Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for Work January — 10 160 and Pensions how many partners in (a) Chesterfield, February — — 180 (b) Derbyshire and (c) England have taken part in the March — — 120 New Deal for Partners in each month since January April — — 130 2005. [318767] May — — 150 June — 10 150 Jim Knight [holding answer 25 February 2010]: The July — — 180 information is in the following yearly table. The numbers August — — 130 are the numbers of people starting in the New Deal for September — — 190 Partners in each month. The figures are available up to October — — 200 November 2009 For the Chesterfield constituency, the November — 10 170 figures are shown as Nil throughout, the tables, because December — — 70 of the standard downward roundings used in the Department’s monthly data. Annual figures show that 2009 50 people started in the New Deal for Partners in the January — — 150 five years from 2005 to 2009 inclusive. February — — 110 Numbers of people starting on New Deal for Partners 2005 to November 2009 March — — 170 Chesterfield April — — 100 constituency Derbyshire England May — — 120 June — — 110 2005 July — 10 140 January — 10 190 August — 10 120 February — — 180 September — — 140 March — — 220 October — — 190 April — — 240 November — — 160 May — — 150 Notes: June — 10 150 1. Definitions and Conventions: ″—″ denotes Nil or negligible. Figures are July — — 170 rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Westminster Parliamentary Constituency: allocated (post May 2005) using August — 10 90 the ONS postcode directory and customer’s postcode. September — — 180 3. The County of Derbyshire includes the local authorities: Amber Valley, October — 10 120 Bolsover, Chesterfield, Derbyshire Dales, Erewash, High Peak, North East Derbyshire, and South Derbyshire. November — 10 120 4. Time series - month of starting: the calendar month of starting New Deal for December — — 80 Partners. The latest data is to November 2009. 5. Spells are not available for New Deal for Partners so individual level data is used instead. This means that only the most recent entry to the New Deal for 2006 Partners is included. Source: January — — 120 Department for Work and Pensions Information Directorate February — 10 160 March — 10 200 April — 10 110 Pathways to Work May — 10 130 June — — 150 July — — 120 Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work August — 10 110 and Pensions if she will publish the latest cumulative September — — 130 performance data for Pathways to Work providers. October — — 110 [315718] 1035W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1036W

Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 3 February 2010]: The final row in this table, covering the three year These statistics were published on 23 February 2010. period 2005-06 to 2007-08 is the most recent estimate of pensioner poverty in the south-west region produced in the Department. Pathways to Work: Feltham Our strategy since 1997 has been to target help on the poorest pensioners while providing a solid foundation Alan Keen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of support for all. and Pensions how many people in Feltham and Heston We have a good track record of reducing pensioner constituency have (a) started Pathways to Work and poverty. In 2007-08 there were 900,000 fewer pensioners (b) made recorded job starts under Pathways to Work in relative poverty than in 1998-99 (measured as below in each year since the inception of the programme; and 60 per cent. of contemporary median income after how many of those who started a job remain in housing costs). Today’s pensioners are less likely to be employment. [316663] living in relative poverty after housing costs than the population as a whole. Jonathan Shaw: Information requested is not available. In 1997, the poorest pensioners, who received Income Support, lived on around £69 a week (equivalent to £98 a week in today’s prices). Today pension credit Pensioners: Poverty ensures that no pensioner needs to live on less than £130 a week or £198.45 a week for couples). This Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Work represents an increase in income by almost a third in and Pensions (1) how many pensioners resident in real terms. And many of those on pension credit will Stroud constituency were officially defined as poor in also be entitled to additional support through housing each year since 1997; [318979] benefit and council tax benefit. (2) what her most recent estimate is of the level of The Pension, Disability and Carers Service continue pensioner poverty in Stroud constituency; and what to promote take-up of benefits for those entitled. This steps her Department has taken to assist those affected. involves data matching to identify entitled non-recipients, [318980] home visits for vulnerable customers, targeted local marketing and media campaigns, a simple claim Angela Eagle: The Government use a basket of three process involving telephones as well as paper claims key thresholds of income, after housing costs, to measure and ever closer working with partner organisations. pensioner poverty. The most commonly used figures The Department is also looking at innovative ways of relate to those with incomes below 60 per cent. of using information that we already hold to make payments contemporary median income, after housing costs. of pension credit more automatically to entitled non- Estimates of poverty, published in the Households recipients. Below Average Income series, only allow a breakdown In the Pensions Act 2007, we made a commitment to of the overall number of people in poverty at Government continue to uprate the pension credit standard minimum office region level. Therefore, information for the Stroud guarantee at least in line with average earnings over the constituency is not available, though figures relating to long-term. The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has the south-west Government office region are. commented that without this, it is likely there would be Three-year averages are used to report regional statistics significant increases in pensioner poverty in the future. as single-year estimates are subject to volatility. Figures We have also made a commitment to re-link the are quoted to the nearest 100,000. The following table uprating of the basic state pension to average earnings. shows the number and percentage of pensioners in the Our objective, subject to affordability and the fiscal south-west Government office region who have incomes position, is to do this in 2012, but in any event by the below 60 per cent. of the contemporary median income: end of the next Parliament at the latest. This will benefit Number and percentage of pensioners in the south-west Government office region almost 12 million pensioners. with incomes below 60 per cent. of contemporary median after housing costs Number of Percentage of pensioners pensioners Pensioners: Social Security Benefits 1997-98 to 1999-2000 300,000 28 1998-99 to 2000-01 300,000 26 Lynne Featherstone: To ask the Secretary of State for 1999-2000 to 2001-02 200,000 25 Work and Pensions what steps her Department is 2000-01 to 2002-03 200,000 24 taking to ensure that eligible pensioners receive their 2001-02 to 2003-04 200,000 22 entitlement to (a) cold weather payments and (b) 2002-03 to 2004-05 200,000 19 pension credit; and if she will make a statement. 2003-04 to 2005-06 200,000 16 [319055] 2004-05 to 2006-07 200,000 16 2005-06 to 2007-08 200,000 18 Notes: Angela Eagle: The Government are committed to 1. Figures are published in the Households Below Average Incomes (HBAI) helping vulnerable customers to heat their homes during series for 2007-08, and are based on FES figures up to 1997-98, and on the FRS the cold weather, so we are continuing cold weather from 1998-99. Three sample years have been combined for regional statistics as single year estimates are subject to volatility. payments. These provide £25 towards eligible customers’ 2. Number of pensioners has been rounded to the nearest 100,000. Percentages heating costs during each consecutive seven-day period have been rounded to the nearest whole percentage point. of very cold weather. There is no need to claim as 3. Changes between periods are calculated based on unrounded figures and therefore may differ from the difference between the rounded figures presented eligible customers are paid automatically when payments above. are triggered in their area. 1037W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1038W

External communications, including media and web Jim Knight: The severe weather experienced between interviews and briefings for welfare organisations, focus 4 and 18 January 2010 had no significant impact on the on reassuring customers that they will get payments and operations of the Department for Work and Pensions do not need to make a claim. An online tool is available and JCP and consequently no such estimate has been on the Directgov website where people can find out made. about eligibility and whether payments have been triggered In addition, between 4 and 18 January, for Great in their area. There is also a leaflet, ‘The Social Fund’ Britain, an estimated 6.9 million cold weather payments which provides information. worth an estimated £174 million were authorised. The Government are also committed to reducing pensioner poverty and works hard to ensure pensioners Social Security Benefits are aware of pension credit. The claims process has been simplified and since November 2008 telephone Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work claims for housing benefit and council tax benefit can and Pensions (1) how much her Department has spent be forwarded directly to the local authority. on (a) incapacity benefit, (b) employment and Targeted take-up campaigns continue in selected regions support allowance and (c) severe disablement to raise awareness and to encourage customers to apply. allowance awarded on the basis of (i) drug or alcohol The campaign uses a range or methods including targeted dependency and (ii) alcoholic liver disease in each year direct mail, supported by sustained media coverage as since 1997; [309342] well as community advertising. (2) how much her Department has spent on disability living allowance awarded on the basis of When contacted, customer advisers in the Pension, alcoholic liver disease in each year since 1997; [309343] Disability and Carers Service discuss pension credit with those who may be eligible and it also conducts (3) how much her Department has spent on around 13,000 home visits a week for vulnerable customers disability living allowance awarded on the basis of drug ensuring they are receiving the benefits they are entitled or alcohol dependency in each year since 1997; [309344] to. (4) how many claimants received awards of (a) Joint Working Partnerships have been established disability living allowance only, (b) incapacity benefit with all 203 primary tier local authorities in England, or employment and support allowance or severe Scotland and Wales. These enable the Pension Disability disablement allowance only and (c) both disability and Carers Service, local authorities and the voluntary living allowance and incapacity benefit or employment sector to provide a single point of access to social care and support allowance or severe disablement allowance and benefit entitlement. on the basis of alcoholic liver disease in each year since 1997; [309345] Self-employed (5) how many claimants received awards of disability living allowance on the basis of alcoholic liver disease in each year since 1997; [309346] Mr. Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people have moved into (6) how many claimants received awards of disability self-employment under the six-month offer introduced living allowance on the basis of drug or alcohol on 6 April 2009; how many people have received the dependency in each year since 1997; [309347] self-employment credit; how much has been spent in (7) how many claimants received awards of (a) total on the self-employment credit; and what estimate disability living allowance only, (b) incapacity benefit she has made of the average cost of movement into or employment and support allowance or severe self-employment under the offer. [316977] disablement allowance only and (c) both disability living allowance and incapacity benefit or employment Jim Knight [holding answer 22 February 2010]: Under and support allowance or severe disablement allowance the jobseeker’s allowance self-employment offer, there on the basis of drug or alcohol dependency in each of are two elements to the help we give people who want to the last 10 years. [309348] move into self-employment or start a business—self- employment advice and support through our expert Jonathan Shaw: Entitlement to incapacity benefits partners, and financial support for those leaving jobseeker’s and disability living allowance is not dependent on a allowance and becoming self-employed. diagnosis or condition but relies instead on the effects that a person’s condition has on their ability to carry Between April and October 2009, 5,310 jobseeker’s out a number of everyday activities. The focus of the allowance recipients have left benefit and claimed the relevant medical assessment for incapacity benefits self-employment credit as they moved into self-employment. determines the extent to which these effects impact on a Total spend on the self-employment credit up to the person, and benefit is only awarded after specific criteria end of October 2009 was £2,267,776 with a unit cost of are met. Similarly entitlement to disability living allowance up to a maximum of £800 per start (up to 16 weeks at is not dependent on a diagnosis or condition but relies £50 per week). The average cost is not available. instead on the care and/or mobility needs arising. Only the primary medical diagnosis written on a Snow and Ice claimant’s medical certificate is recorded for benefit purposes. However, many of those who claim benefit Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work with a diagnosis of drug or alcohol dependency will and Pensions what estimate she has made of the costs also have other underlying medical conditions such as to her Department arising from the severe weather mental/psychiatric illness. Information on the cost and conditions in the period 4 January to 18 January 2010; numbers of people on benefit who claim with a diagnosis and if she will make a statement. [313594] of alcoholic liver disease is not available. 1039W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1040W

From 27 October 2008 we replaced incapacity benefits General guidance on the application and interpretation for new customers with the employment and support of Income Support, Jobseeker’s Allowance and allowance and a revised medical assessment which focuses Employment and Support Allowance rules for our Decision on what people can do, as well as what they cannot. Makers can be found in the Decision Makers Guide. A Medical conditions information for employment and copy of the Guide is available in the Library and on the support allowance is not yet available. Department for Work and Pensions’ website at: The available information has been placed in the http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/ Library. It should be noted however that this represents decision-makers-guide/ a sub set of the total number of customers claiming Following the Home Office announcement last year these benefits who suffer from an alcohol or drug that all Gurkhas who retired before 1 July 1997 with dependency four years service would be able to settle in the UK, the Pension, Disability and Carers Service has been working Social Security Benefits: Alcoholic Drinks with other Government Departments on plans for their Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work arrival. and Pensions what estimate she has made of the Internal guidance is being prepared for issue shortly number of claimants of (a) jobseeker’s allowance, (b) to Pension, Disability and Carers Service staff to help income support, (c) incapacity benefit and (d) them respond to the needs of ex-Gurkhas. employment and support allowance who were alcohol In the calculation of entitlement to Housing Benefit mis-users in each of the last five years. [316765] and Council Tax Benefit, a mandatory £10 disregard of Jim Knight: The information is not available. Alcohol income from war pensions (war disablement pension, a misuse is a concern for the Government and work is pension to a war widow or war widower or a similar currently under way within the Department for Work pension paid to a surviving civil partner), applies. In and Pensions to derive robust estimates of alcohol addition, local authorities have discretionary powers to misuse amongst the benefit population. disregard some or all of any income from war pensions, including service attributable pensions, once the mandatory Social Security Benefits: Armed Forces disregard of £10 has been made. It is a matter for each authority to decide the extent to which they apply the Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work additional disregard. We have recently issued guidance and Pensions what guidance her Department has clarifying that service attributable pensions fall to be issued on the treatment in the benefits system of (a) disregarded under the discretionary powers. current members of the armed forces, (b) spouses and immediate family members of members of the armed forces and (c) former members of the armed forces. Social Security Benefits: Departmental Coordination [316487] Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Jonathan Shaw: The Department for Work and Pensions Work and Pensions what additional processing work and its executive agencies take into account an individual’s attributable to the recession which has fallen to her circumstances as a matter of course, including current Department is being undertaken with the assistance of and former service personnel and their families. staff from other Government departments; and if she The Service Command Paper ‘The Nation’s will make a statement. [301739] Commitment: Cross-Government Support to our Armed Forces, their Families and Veterans’ [Cm 7424] published Jim Knight: The Pensions, Disability and Carers Service in July 2008 contained a number of departmental and the Child Support Agency have not taken on any commitments to further support service personnel families staff from other Departments to process additional and former members of the armed forces. These included work as a result of the recession. an agreement to use service medical board evidence In the 12 month period from October 2008 to September when considering entitlement to Employment Support 2009 Jobcentre Plus have recruited 1,095 staff from Allowance (supporting guidance was issued to Jobcentre other Government Departments. Plus staff in October 2009) and the Department’s commitment to award Class 1 National Insurance Credits to spouses and civil partners of service personnel posted Social Security Benefits: Drugs overseas with effect from April 2010. This will enable more members of service personnel families to qualify Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work for Jobseeker’s Allowance, Employment and Support and Pensions what estimate she has made of the Allowance and basic State Pension. Staff in my Department number of claimants of (a) jobseeker’s allowance, (b) are currently working with colleagues in Her Majesty’s income support, (c) incapacity benefit and (d) Revenue and Customs and Ministry of Defence to employment and support allowance who were problem produce guidance on this for our staff and customers. drug users in each of the last five years. [316775] This will include producing a customer fact sheet, providing advice to go into the packs given to members of Her Jim Knight [holding answer 10 February 2010]: In Majesty’s forces when a posting outside the UK is 2008 the Department for Work and Pensions published about to end and making information, including the a research report: ‘Population estimates of problematic application form for the credits, available online via, the drug users in England who access DWP benefits: A Department for Work and Pensions and Ministry of feasibility study’, Working Paper No. 46, Hay, G. and Defence websites. The addresses are: Bauld, L. that estimated the number of problem drug www.dwp.gov.uk users claiming various benefits. Such information as is www.mod.uk available is presented in the following table. 1041W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1042W

Estimated number of claimants who are problem drug users by benefit type in Angela Eagle: The information requested is in following 2006 table. Benefit Number of claimants Recipients of pension credit in the Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency, as at Jobseeker’s allowance 66,000 August 2009 Incapacity benefit 87,000 Number/£ Income support 146,000 Individual beneficiaries 2,870 Total number of problem drug users 267,000 on the above benefits Households recipients 2,380 Notes : Average weekly award of pension credit 55.17 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest thousand. 1. Caseload figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Problem drug users are defined as those who use heroin and/or crack cocaine 2. Household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for and includes those who are in treatment for their dependency. themselves or on behalf of themselves and a partner. Beneficiaries are the 3. The sum of the component benefits is greater than the total number of number of claimants in addition to the number of partners for whom they are problem drug users estimated to be in receipt of the main benefits. This is claiming. because claimants can be in receipt of Incapacity Benefit and Income Support 3. Pension credit is claimed on a household basis. The average weekly award of at the same time. pension credit is in relation to the household. 4. The figures relate to 2006 and therefore predate the introduction of employment 4. Parliamentary constituencies and local authorities are assigned by matching support allowance. postcodes against the relevant ONS postcode directory. Source: Source: Population estimates of problematic drug users in England who access Department DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100 per for Work and Pensions benefits: A feasibility study, Working Paper No. 46, Hay, cent. data. G. and Bauld, L. Social Security Benefits: Obesity Social Security Benefits: Employment Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate she has made of the and Pensions how many and what proportion of number of claimants of (a) employment and support claimants of employment and support allowance have allowance, (b) incapacity benefit and (c) severe left the benefit for employment since its introduction. disablement allowance who have a primary diagnosis of [318795] obesity which limits their ability to work in the latest period for which figures are available. [316778] Jonathan Shaw [holding answer 25 February 2010]: The information requested is not available. Jonathan Shaw[holding answer 10 February 2010]: To qualify for incapacity benefit/severe disablement Social Security Benefits: Fibromyalgia allowance, claimants have to undertake a medical assessment of incapacity for work called the personal capability Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work assessment. Therefore, the medical condition recorded and Pensions what guidance her Department has on the claim form does not in itself confer entitlement issued to examining medical practitioners carrying out to benefit. This means that the decision for a customer assessments for eligibility for disability living allowance who has claimed incapacity benefit/severe disablement and employment and support allowance on allowance because of obesity would be based on their fibromyalgia. [318398] ability to carry out a range of activities in the personal Jonathan Shaw: All examining Atos Healthcare capability assessment. Causes of incapacity are based professionals, who carry out examining assessments on on the International Classification of Diseases, 10th behalf of the Department, undertake a distance learning Revision, published by the World Health Organisation. module on fibromyalgia within 12 months of joining Employment and support allowance was introduced the organisation. The distance learning module is approved from October 2008 for new customers only. It replaced by the Chief Medical Adviser to the Department. In incapacity benefit and income support paid on the addition, they are required to undertake a programme grounds of incapacity or disability. Data by medical of continuing medical education that is agreed with the conditions are not yet available for employment and Department. A module on chronic fatigue syndrome support allowance. and fibromyalgia is included in the suite of continuing The available information is provided in the table. medical education topics available to the health care professionals. Number of claimants of incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance with obesity as the main disabling condition Great Britain and abroad as at May 2009 Entitlement to disability living allowance is not based Number on the diagnosis of a particular disability or illness but on the effects of disability on the individual person. It is Incapacity benefit/severe disablement 2,040 the information about care and/or mobility needs which allowance a person provides on the claim form, supported where Incapacity benefit 1,940 necessary by medical reports from a GP or Atos Healthcare Severe disablement allowance 90 Note: professional, which allows the decision-maker to determine Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. entitlement. Source: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100 per cent data. Social Security Benefits: Na h-Eileanan an Iar Mr. Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions how many claimants of (a) and Pensions how many people were in receipt of incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance and pension credits in Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency in (b) employment and support allowance had a primary the latest period for which figures are available; and diagnosis of obesity in (i) each of the last five years and what the average weekly payment was in such credits in (ii) each of the last four quarters for which figures are that constituency in that period. [319013] available. [316978] 1043W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1044W

Jonathan Shaw: To qualify for incapacity benefit/severe Number of claimants of incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance with obesity as the main disabling condition Great Britain and abroad May 2005 to disablement allowance, claimants have to undertake a May 2009 medical assessment of incapacity for work called the Incapacity benefit/ Severe personal capability assessment. Therefore, the medical severe disablement Incapacity disablement condition recorded on the claim form does not in itself allowance benefit allowance confer entitlement to benefit. This means that the decision November 2,140 2,040 100 for a customer who has claimed incapacity benefit/severe 2008 disablement allowance because of obesity would be February 2,110 2,010 90 based on their ability to carry out a range of activities in 2009 the personal capability assessment. Causes of incapacity May 2009 2,040 1,940 90 are based on the International Classification of Diseases, Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest ten. 10th Revision, published by the World Health Organisation. 2. Data by medical conditions is not yet available for employment and support allowance. The available information is provided in the table. Source: Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100 per cent. data. Number of claimants of incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance with obesity as the main disabling condition Great Britain and abroad May 2005 to State Retirement Pensions May 2009 Incapacity benefit/ Severe Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Work severe disablement Incapacity disablement allowance benefit allowance and Pensions how many employees of each (a) sex and (b) age have been contracted (i) in and (ii) out of the May 2005 1,830 1,710 120 state second pension scheme in each year since 2004. May 2006 1,890 1,790 110 [318812] May 2007 1,980 1,880 100 May 2008 2,070 1,970 100 Angela Eagle: The available information is in the August 2008 2,130 2,030 100 following tables.

Contracted out/in status during the year Employees (Thousand) Tax year Contracted out/in status Total Female Male

2007-08 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,048 3,127 1,921 Contracted out only 3,493 1,121 2,372

Contracted in only 18,176 8,681 9,495

Total 26,717 12,929 13,788

2006-07 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,270 3,175 2,095 Contracted out only 4,040 1,289 2,751

Contracted in only 17,011 8,203 8,808

Total 26,320 12,666 13,653

2005-06 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,493 3,284 2,210 Contracted out only 4,460 1,416 3,043

Contracted in only 16,138 7,828 8,310

Total 26,091 12,528 13,563

2004-05 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,512 3,253 2,260 Contracted out only 5,004 1,565 3,440

Contracted in only 14,871 7,342 7,529

Total 25,388 12,159 13,229

Contracted out/in status during the year Employees (Thousand) Tax year Contracted out/in status Total Under 20 20 to 29 30 to 39 40 to 49 50 to 59 60 to 64

2007-08 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,048 17 733 1,275 1,655 1,228 140 Contracted out only 3,493 — 172 1,029 1,393 817 82 Contracted in only 18,176 554 5,200 4,505 3,841 3,243 832 Total 26,717 572 6,105 6,810 6,889 5,287 1,053

2006-07 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,270 35 841 1,403 1,698 1,174 119 Contracted out only 4,040 — 219 1,267 1,515 943 96 Contracted in only 17,011 547 4,975 4,290 3,576 2,970 654 1045W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1046W

Contracted out/in status during the year Employees (Thousand) Tax year Contracted out/in status Total Under 20 20 to 29 30 to 39 40 to 49 50 to 59 60 to 64

Total 26,320 582 6,034 6,960 6,789 5,086 869

2005-06 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,493 32 904 1,557 1,754 1,155 91 Contracted out only 4,460 — 255 1,436 1,591 1,070 107 Contracted in only 16,138 587 4,776 4,136 3,399 2,776 465 Total 26,091 619 5,935 7,129 6,744 5,001 664

2004-05 Both contracted in and contracted out 5,512 38 944 1,658 1,738 1,071 63 Contracted out only 5,004 *1 312 1,678 1,720 1,170 124 Contracted in only 14,871 613 4,503 3,861 3,082 2,497 315 Total 25,388 652 5,760 7,197 6,540 4,738 502 Notes: 1. Asterisks indicate a high degree of sampling error and should only be used as a guide. 2. Dashes represent nil or negligible numbers of individuals. 3. Figures are rounded to the nearest thousand. Totals may not sum due to rounding. Figures for 2006-07 and 2007-08 should be regarded as provisional and may be subject to changes in future releases. 4. Ages of individuals are taken to be ages at the end of the relevant tax year—e.g. on 5 April 2008 for the 2007-08 tax year. Source: DWP Information Directorate: Lifetime Labour Market Database 1 per cent. sample of the National Insurance Recording System

Unemployment Benefits in relation to compulsory employment or training programmes, has been placed in the Library. Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work This information is also published on the Department and Pensions (1) what sanctions are available in for Work and Pensions website: relation to compulsory employment or training http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/tabtool.asp programmes; and how many times each such sanction Please note, in 2006 the Department refreshed the has been used in each year since 1997; [313082] delivery of the jobseeker’s allowance regime within (2) how many times each type of sanction available Jobcentre Plus ensuring that all customers were receiving for (a) jobseeker’s allowance, (b) incapacity benefit, the right support at the right time. This led to a (c) employment and support allowance and (d) strengthening of the rights and responsibilities agenda income support has been used in each year since 1997. which underpins the regime. [313083] This coincides with the increase in jobseekers who were sanctioned between 2006-07 and 2007-08. Jim Knight: Data on sanctions is available for jobseeker’s allowance from the year 2000. Data on sanctions is not available for income support, incapacity benefit and Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work employment and support allowance. and Pensions (1) what estimate her Department has made of its expenditure on out-of-work benefits in Questions about entitlement to jobseeker’s allowance each year since 1980, expressed in real terms; [317619] can arise at any time from the commencement of a claim. For example, if there is doubt around whether (2) what estimate her Department has made of its the jobseeker’s agreement (JSAg) is suitable, whether expenditure on unemployment benefits in each year the claimant is actively looking for work or making since 1980, expressed in real terms; [317620] them self available for work. In most cases payment of (3) what estimate her Department has made of its Jobseeker’s Allowance will be suspended until the doubt expenditure on out-of-work benefits in (a) 2009-10 is resolved. and (b) 2010-11 expressed, in real terms; [317642] The following types of sanctions are available for (4) what estimate her Department has made of its jobseeker’s allowance claimants: expenditure on unemployment benefits in (a) 2009-10 Varied Length Sanctions: A sanction of between one week and and (b) 2010-11, expressed in real terms. [317643] 26 weeks is imposed for leaving employment voluntarily without just cause, refusing employment without good cause, or losing Jim Knight: The available information is in the following employment through misconduct. The actual period in each table: case is at the discretion of the Adjudication Officer who makes the decision. Expenditure on out-of-work benefits in Great Britain, 1980-81 to 2010-11 Fixed Length Sanctions: A sanction of two weeks (four weeks £ million (2009-10 prices) if repeated within 12 months, and 26 weeks if already received Incapacity- related a four week sanction within last 12 months) are imposed for benefits refusal, without good cause, to attend an employment programme (including Income or carry out a Jobseeker’s Direction. Payment of benefit continues income support for Jobseeker’s in full pending the Adjudication Officer’s decision on a sanction support) lone parents allowance Total question. Status: Data on the number of times each type of sanction Outturn available for jobseeker’s allowance has been used in 1980-81 5,947 618 5,554 12,119 each year since 2000, including those that are available 1981-82 6,146 761 7,683 14,589 1047W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1048W

Expenditure on out-of-work benefits in Great Britain, 1980-81 to 2010-11 benefits: medical examinations, what guidance her £ million (2009-10 prices) Department issues to ATOS Medical assessors on work Incapacity- capability assessments. [318180] related benefits Jonathan Shaw: The main guidance for examining (including Income income support for Jobseeker’s Atos Healthcare professionals, who carry out the work support) lone parents allowance Total capability assessments on behalf of the Department, is the Employment and Support Allowance handbook 1982-83 6,129 1,086 9,044 16,259 which has been developed in conjunction with the Chief 1983-84 7,143 1,377 10,233 18,754 Medical Adviser to the Department. This complements 1984-85 7,528 1,486 10,832 19,846 the training that the health care professionals receive to 1985-86 7,700 1,690 11,208 20,598 carry out the work capability assessment. 1986-87 8,429 1,938 11,490 21,857 1987-88 8,635 1,989 9,647 20,270 Work Capability Assessment: Parkinson’s Disease 1988-89 9,073 1,985 6,800 17,858 1989-90 9,339 1,936 5,166 16,440 Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 1990-91 9,751 2,224 5,634 17,609 and Pensions what guidance her Department has 1991-92 10,919 2,722 8,159 21,800 issued to GPs on Parkinson’s disease and medical 1992-93 12,095 2,962 9,642 24,699 assessments of individuals’ fitness for work. [319452] 1993-94 13,433 3,107 9,650 26,190 1994-95 13,845 3,611 8,229 25,685 Jonathan Shaw: The Department for Work and Pensions 1995-96 14,086 3,723 7,434 25,243 does not issue guidance to GPs on Parkinson’s disease. 1996-97 14,068 3,621 6,297 23,986 However, all healthcare professionals working for Atos 1997-98 13,815 3,304 4,730 21,850 Healthcare, who undertake work capability and personal 1998-99 13,791 3,039 4,229 21,059 capability assessments on behalf of the Department, 1999-2000 13,523 2,799 3,787 20,109 are issued with an evidence based protocol on Parkinson’s 2000-01 13,815 2,844 3,243 19,902 disease. 2001-02 13,835 2,712 2,858 19,405 2002-03 13,571 2,399 2,784 18,754 2003-04 13,458 2,564 2,671 18,693 HOME DEPARTMENT 2004-05 13,214 2,378 2,326 17,918 2005-06 13,084 2,225 2,534 17,842 Anti-terrorism Control Orders 2006-07 12,807 2,143 2,612 17,562 2007-08 12,836 2,220 2,342 17,398 Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2008-09 12,503 2,088 2,916 17,506 Home Department pursuant to the answer of 10 February 2010, Official Report, column 1054W, on Status: control orders, if he will hold discussions with law Forecast reporters on arrangements for reports of control order 2009-10 13,512 2,223 4,950 20,685 judgments and interim orders; and if he will make a 2010-11 13,533 1,831 5,642 21,006 statement. [318761] Notes: 1. Figures may not sum due to rounding. Mr. Hanson [holding answer 25 February 2010]: My 2. Figures in the table have been adjusted to provide a consistent series officials will hold discussions with the Ministry of Justice throughout the period. Specifically, the following expenditure has been excluded from the table: Expenditure on invalidity benefit and incapacity benefit for to explore the issues in relation to the reporting of people aged above state pension age, which was phased out between 1995 and closed judgments and interim orders. 2000. Expenditure on income support in residential care and nursing homes, which was transferred to the Department of Health in 2002 and 2003. Child allowances in income support and jobseeker’s allowance, which from 2003 were Automatic Number Plate Recognition gradually replaced by child tax credit. 3. The JSA figures shown in the table are based on HM Treasury’s assumption for claimant unemployment, which itself Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for the is based on forecasts from around 30 independent forecasters and is audited by the National Audit Office. It is intended as a cautious planning assumption, and Home Department what assessment his Department does not represent the Treasury’s own economic forecast. and its agencies have made of the accuracy of the data Sources: stored on the Automatic Number Plate Recognition 1. DWP Statistical and Accounting data. 2. Pre-Budget report forecasts. databases for which they are responsible; and whether he has made a recent estimate of the proportion of Unemployment: Parents entries on such databases which contain incorrect information. [318115] Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many households there were in Mr. Alan Campbell: Automatic Number Plate which (a) both parents and (b) one parent in a Recognition (ANPR) systems are owned and operated married or cohabiting couple claimed jobseeker’s by individual police forces. Number plates read by allowance in each year since 2005. [316636] police force cameras are fed into local Back Office Facility (BOF) databases before being forwarded to the Jim Knight: The information is not available. National ANPR Data Centre (NADC) which is managed by the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA). Work Capability Assessment Chief Constables are “data controllers in common” for ANPR data and are responsible for the accuracy of Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the data. The National ACPO (Association of Chief and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 19 January Police Officers) ANPR Standards (NAAS) set out clearly 2010, Official Report, column 213W, on social security the criteria for ANPR data quality. 1049W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1050W

While no estimate has been made of the proportion (MARAC), a special domestic violence court (SDVC) of incorrect interpretations of number plates, an image and associated independent domestic violence advisers of the plate is stored with each record of a sighting. The (IDVA). plate text is never used without the image being viewed Safer Gateshead uses ASB tools and powers effectively. and such information would not be acted upon without It is currently reviewing its delivery to provide a graded further information or intelligence. approach to ASB with a focus on early intervention. Gateshead agreed to become a Neighbourhood Crime Blaydon and Justice Pioneer Area in 2009. As a pioneer, it has dedicated resource to work with its communities to address local concerns on crime, antisocial behaviour Mr. David Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State and justice. The partnership uses Community Payback for the Home Department if he will set out, with effectively as part of this approach. statistical information related as directly as possible to the Blaydon constituency, the effects on Blaydon of his Gateshead is an intensive drug intervention programme Department’s policies and actions since 2000. [315300] (DIP) area and tackles drug-related offending through drug-testing on arrest and restriction on bail provisions thereby allowing more offenders to be targeted and Mr. Alan Campbell: The Home Office has introduced steered into treatment and out of crime. Gateshead’s a range of policies and initiatives since 2000. However, DIP budget for 2009-10 is £637,363. In 2008-09 there it is not always possible to quantify their effects particularly were 2,255 positive drug tests with 945 problem drug at constituency level. The available statistical information users (crack and/or opiate users) recorded as being in therefore relates to the Gateshead crime and disorder effective drug treatment. reduction partnership area. In terms of police recorded crime in Gateshead, The Neighbourhood Statistics Service provides a wide between 2002-03 and 2008-09, total recorded crime fell range of statistical information at parliamentary by 41 per cent. More specifically: constituency level, taken from the 2001 census and other sources. This service is available on the National Violence against the person—down 36 per cent; Statistics website at: Sexual offences—down 37 per cent; http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk Robbery—down 68 per cent; Burglary—down 50 per cent; Offences against vehicles—down 49 per cent; Burglary Other theft offences—down 38 per cent; Criminal damage—down 36 per cent; Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the Drug offences—down 40 per cent. Home Department (1) what the rate of recovery has Data prior to 2002-03 are not directly comparable been of items stolen in reported incidents of because of the introduction of the National Crime aggravated burglary in each of the last five years; Recording Standard in April 2002. [315455] Gateshead Basic Command Unit had 443 police officers (2) what proportion of reports of aggravated as at 30 March 2009. The number of police officers has burglary to the police have resulted in (a) an arrest of increased by 33 since 2003. Comparisons with 2000 for a suspect and (b) a conviction in each of the last five Gateshead BCU are not available. There were 35 police years; [315456] community support officers as at 30 March 2009 while (3) how many incidents of aggravated burglary there there were none in existence in 2000. were in (a) the Ribble Valley, (b) Lancashire and (c) The Crime and Disorder Act 1998 saw positive effects England and Wales in each of the last five years. with the statutory duty to create a crime and disorder [315458] reduction partnership (CDRP). Gateshead CDRP is a merged CDRP/DAAT and Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 4 February 2010]: forms part of the local strategic partnership sub-group Statistics in relation to recovery rates for items stolen is Safer Stronger Communities and Culture Partnership. not collected centrally. There is a genuine partnership with police, local authority and other key stakeholders problem solving to tackle In relation to part (a) of the second question, the complex issues. arrests collection held by the Home Office covers arrests for recorded crime broken down by offence group eg Generally crime performance is positive. The overall violence against the person, sexual offences, burglary rate of violence with injury per 1,000 population is etc. Data for component offences within each offence lower than the regional and national averages. group is not available and therefore data on arrests for Gateshead, as part of Northumbria police force, has aggravated burglary cannot be provided. been part of the Tackling Knives Action Programme in Referring to part (b) of the second question, the 2009-10. This has provided additional funding for number of people found guilty at all courts for ‘aggravated prevention and education activity on knife crime and burglary’, England and Wales 2004 to 2008, the latest serious youth violence, as well as additional enforcement available, is given in table 1. Court proceedings data for operations. The partnership has have also received funding 2009 are planned for publication in the autumn, 2010. and support from the Home Office and Ministry of Justice to tackle domestic and sexual violence including The available information for the third question relates the development of multi area risk assessment conference to offences recorded by the police and is given in table 2. 1051W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1052W

Table 1: Number of defendants found guilty at all courts for aggravated burglary1, England and Wales 2004 to 20082, 3, 4 Cost of electronic monitoring of control orders to the Ministry of Found guilty Financial year Justice (£) 2004 284 2007-081 74,900 2005 245 2008-09 72,700 2006 248 2009-10 (to the end of August)2 32,300 2007 264 1 The figure for 2007-08 is based partly on estimates. 2008 292 2 The figure for 2009-10 represents the most recent figure provided to the 1 Includes the following offences: Ministry of Justice by the monitoring companies during the financial year and i. Aggravated burglary in a dwelling. is based partly on estimates. ii. Aggravated burglary in a building other than a dwelling. Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000: Prosecutions 2 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more Ms Angela C. Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum the Home Department how many (a) prosecutions, penalty is the most severe. (b) convictions and (c) orders there have been under 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted section 14 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police 2000. [318498] forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Huw Irranca-Davies: I have been asked to reply. 4 Excludes convictions data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July, and Section 14(1) of the Countryside and Rights of Way August 2008. Source: Act 2000 relates to Justice Statistics Analytical Services in the Ministry of Justice 080-10 “placing or maintaining on access land notice deterring public use”. Table 2: Recorded offences of ‘aggravated burglary’ from 2004-05 to 2008-09 Area 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Section 14(2) and (3) stipulates “failure to comply with court order to remove notice deterring Aggravated burglary public use”. in a dwelling1 Ribble Valley 00 113Data available on the Court Proceedings Database show CDRP3 that, between 2000 and 2008 (latest available), in 2002 Lancashire PFA4 82 76 72 72 34 there was one prosecution and one finding of guilt England and Wales 2,538 2,162 1,806 1,572 1,455 under section 14 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000. These data include section 14 sub-sections (1) Aggravated burglary (2) and (3) and it is therefore not possible to identify in a building other whether the proceedings were for placing or maintaining than a dwelling2 a notice or failure to comply with a court order. Ribble Valley 01 000 CDRP3 Court proceedings data given above are on the principle Lancashire PFA4 17 892offence basis which relates to persons for whom these England and Wales 453 356 279 214 182 offences were the principal offences for which they were 1 Domestic burglary. dealt with. For example, when a defendant has been 2 Non-domestic burglary. found guilty of two or more offences the principal 3 Crime and Disorder Reduction Partnership. offence is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is 4 Police force area. imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for Control Orders which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. Court proceedings data for 2009 are planned for publication in the autumn, 2010. Mr. Blunt: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much his Department spent on Departmental Advertising private security firms in respect of the oversight of individuals subject to a control order in each financial Mr. Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for the year since 2006-07. [319178] Home Department how much his Department plans to spend on television advertisements in 2009-10. [318974] Mr. Hanson [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The Mr. Woolas: During the financial year 2009-10 the only involvement of private security firms in the oversight Home Office has spent £4,344,769 on TV advertising. of individuals subject to a control order relates to the electronic monitoring of those individuals. This is carried Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers out under contracts currently held by the Ministry of Justice. These contracts also cover all electronic monitoring Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the of individuals within the criminal justice system in Home Department how many special advisers have England and Wales. been employed by his Department in each year since The cost of the electronic monitoring of controlled 1997; and what the average salary was for those special individuals to the Ministry of Justice from April 2007 is advisers in each such year. [317576] set out in the following table. No breakdown of the costs of monitoring individuals subject to a control Alan Johnson: The Government are committed to order is available for the period prior to April 2007 publishing an annual list detailing the number and costs when these contracts were held by the Home Office. of special advisers. Information for 2009-10 was published 1053W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1054W by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 16 July The Government’s strategy is to bear down on all 2009, Official Report, column 74WS. This information points in the drugs supply chain in order to disrupt has been published since 2003. criminal gangs, stifle drug supply and reduce the harm Information prior to 2003 was provided at regular caused to communities in the UK. Increasing quantities intervals and is available in the Library of the House. of drugs are being seized and organised crime groups and dealers disrupted. Deportation The latest figure published show that in 2008-09, there were a record 241,090 drug seizures by police and Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the UK Border Agency (including HMRC) in England and Home Department how many migrants were deported Wales, up six per cent from the 228,131 seizures the from the UK on the grounds that their presence was previous year. These figures include 3,988 drug seizures not conducive to the public good in each of the past 10 made by Essex police in 2008-09, an increase of 45 per years. [318700] cent. on seizures made in 2007-08 (2,747).

Alan Johnson: In 2008 and 2009, the UK Border Feltham Agency removed or deported approximately 11,000 offenders. Of these, approximately 30 per cent. will have been removed on ’conducive’ grounds. Information on Alan Keen: To ask the Secretary of State for the those removed on conducive grounds from before 2008 Home Department if he will set out, with statistical would necessitate reviewing individual removal records. evidence relating as closely as possible to Feltham and This would be a disproportionate cost. Heston constituency, the effects on the Department’s policies since 1997. [316672] This information is taken from Internal Management Information and is subject to change. Mr. Alan Campbell: The Home Office has introduced Deportation: Offenders a range of policies and initiatives since 1997. However, it is not always possible to quantify their effects particularly Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the at constituency level. Feltham and Heston comes within Home Department how many foreign nationals the Hounslow Crime and Disorder Reduction Partnership. sentenced to one year or more in prison were not The available statistical information therefore relates to removed from the UK following the end of their the London borough of Hounslow at either CDRP or sentence in each of the last 10 years. [318772] Basic Command Unit level. In terms of police recorded crime in the Hounslow Alan Johnson [holding answer 25 February 2010]: CDRP, between 2002-03 and 2008-09, total recorded Between 2007 and 2009, the UK Border Agency removed crime fell by 28 per cent. More specifically: approximately 15,000 foreign national offenders from Violence against the person - down 22 per cent. the UK. Of these, approximately two-thirds had previously received a single or cumulative sentence of one year or Sexual offences - down 30 per cent. more of which one-third were removed either before or Robbery - down 27 per cent. within one month of the end of their sentence. The Burglary - down 23 per cent. remainder were not removed following the end of their Offences against vehicles - down 45 per cent. sentence and were, instead, either detained in a prison, Other theft offences - down 24 per cent. an immigration removal centre, or released under UK Criminal damage - down 42 per cent. Border Agency contact management conditions or by Drug offences - up 160 per cent [up 12 per cent. in last year] the Independent Tribunal Service on bail. Information (there has been increased recording of drug offences which was regarding removals from before 2007 is not available mainly attributable to the increased use of police powers to electronically and could be obtained only by reviewing issue cannabis warnings). individual records. This would incur a disproportionate Data prior to 2002-03 is not directly comparable cost. because of the introduction of the National Crime This answer is based on internal management information Recording Standard in April 2002. Additionally, no and is subject to change. data at borough level is available prior to 1998-99. Drugs: Crime Hounslow BCU had 518 police officers as at 30 March 2009. The number of police officers has increased by 51 James Duddridge: To ask the Secretary of State for since 2003. Comparisons with 1997 for Hounslow BCU the Home Department what assessment he has made of are not available. There were 98 Police Community the trends in levels of illegal drugs sold by Somali Support Officers as at 30 March 2009 while there were nationals in (a) Southend and (b) England and Wales. none in existence in 1997. [318205] The Crime and Disorder Act 1998 saw positive effects with the statutory duty to create a Crime and Disorder Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 24 February 2010]: Reduction Partnership (CDRP). The CDRP has brought A formal assessment into the trends in the sales of new ways of working in a cross cutting way with the illegal drugs by Somali nationals has not been made. police, council and other key stakeholders and genuine Drug offences are not separately identifiable by nationality. partnership working to help tackle complex issues. The illegal supply of drugs is a serious matter. Trafficking Along with the CDRP came the development of in controlled drugs of all classes needs to be tackled Safer Neighbourhood initiatives where there is now a robustly in order to reduce the harm drugs cause to dedicated police resource in each of the 20 wards of communities and organised criminality associated with Hounslow which were not in place in 1997. Of the their supply. 20 Safer Neighbourhood Teams (SNTs) there are five in 1055W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1056W the Heston and Feltham wards, East, Central and West The United Kingdom’s postal hubs and depots are Heston and North and West Feltham. A more recent located within the Central Border Force Region. It is development is the Neighbourhood Community Safety Government policy to publish UKBA management Co-ordinators (NCSC). Part of the CDRPs pledge is to information at a regional level, as location-specific strengthen the work around community safety. This has information could provide value to those seeking to included creating a new team of Neighbourhood circumvent our controls. Community Safety Co-ordinators of which there are five one covers Heston and Cranford and another covers Immigrants Feltham. These co-ordinators are co-located at police stations throughout the borough. These officers will take a lead role in co-ordinating work around reducing Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the crime, anti-social behaviour, alcohol and drugs by working Home Department how many people were convicted of with partners and residents in a designated area in the (a) entering the UK in breach of a deportation order borough. (These officers have recently been recruited or without leave, (b) remaining in the UK after leave to and Hounslow plan to launch the initiative in March.) enter or remain had expired, (c) assaulting an immigration officer and (d) trafficking people for Before 1997 there were no bespoke powers to tackle exploitation in each year since 1998; and how many anti-social behaviour but there are now a range of offenders in each category received the maximum powers to deal with this issue. These include Anti-Social available prison sentence or fine in each year. [318699] Behaviour Orders (ASBOs), and Designated Public Places Orders (DPPOs) from the Criminal Justice and Police Alan Johnson: The information requested is not recorded Act 2001. by the UK Border Agency. The Ministry of Justice is Hounslow is working hard tackling areas where there responsible for data regarding convictions which result are poor perceptions of ASB especially where ″rubbish from cases brought on behalf of the Home Office. and litter is lying around″ and ″vandalism/graffiti″ is concerned. Hounslow have done a lot of work in this Immigration: Detention Centres area over the past year and are confident of having better results in the 2010 Place Survey. Another of Hounslow’s CDRP pledges is to ″introduce Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the CCTV to more parts of the borough″. They are providing Home Department how many people have been a strategic community safety CCTV control room and detained in immigration removal centres having been roll out CCTV cameras in ten key sites across the granted leave to remain in UK for a given period, borough. broken down by (a) sex, (b) age and (c) length of detention (i) prior to and (ii) following case The Neighbourhood Statistics Service provides a wide determination. [318500] range of statistical information at Parliamentary constituency level, taken from the 2001 census and Alan Johnson: The information requested is not available other sources. This service is available on the National and could be provided only by examining individual Statistics website at: records at disproportionate cost. http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk./ Information on people detained in immigration removal Human Trafficking centres is available from the Library of the House and from the Home Office’s Research, Development and Mr. Steen: To ask the Secretary of State for the Statistics website at: Home Department when the Inter-Departmental http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- Ministerial Group on Trafficking will next meet; and stats.html whether it plans to discuss the evaluation of its work The latest information up to 31 December 2009 was on anti-trafficking responses in the UK. [318971] published on 25 February 2010.

Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 1 March 2010]: Members: Correspondence The next meeting of the Inter-Departmental Ministerial Group on Trafficking is scheduled for 14 April 2010. Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for The group routinely discusses work on anti-trafficking the Home Department when he plans to reply to the activities as part of its strategic oversight of the cross- letter of 7 December 2009 from the right hon. Member Government UK Action Plan. for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Mr. R. A. Ansari. [315017] Illegal Immigrants: Employment Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the 10 February 2010. Home Department how many immigration officers have been stationed at postal hubs or depots in England and Wales in each of the last 10 years. Police [318703] Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for the Alan Johnson: With the formation of the UK Border Home Department how many (a) cautions, (b) Agency (UKBA) in April 2008, responsibility for staffing on-the-spot fines and (c) formal warnings were issued postal hubs and depots transferred from HM Revenue by each police force in (i) 2007-08 and (ii) 2008-09. and Customs, to the UK Border Force. [314004] 1057W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1058W

Mr. Alan Campbell: The number of cautions, penalty Table 1: Number of cautions1, 2 issued for all offences in England and notices for disorder (PNDs) issued in each police force Wales, by police force area 2007 and 2008 area in England and Wales is shown in Table 1 and Table 2, respectively. Data on cautions and PNDs are Police force area 2007 2008 currently available to 31 December 2008 and are compiled by calendar year. Data provided by Ministry of Justice. England and Wales 362,895 326,894 Cautions and court proceedings data for 2009 are expected to be published in the autumn, 2010. 1 From 1 June 2000 the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 came into force nationally and removed the use of cautions for persons under The only formal warning statistics that are collected 18 and replaced them with reprimands and warnings. These figures centrally are cannabis warnings. Police forces have been have been included in the totals. able to issue a formal warning for possession of cannabis, 2 These cautions statistics relate to persons for whom these offences known as a cannabis warning, since 1 April 2004. were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When an Statistics on cannabis warnings for 2007-08 and 2008-09 offender has been cautioned for two or more offences at the same aregivenintable3. time the principal offence is the more serious offence. Note: Data provided by the Home Office. Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate

1, 2 and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have Table 1: Number of cautions issued for all offences in England and been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by Wales, by police force area 2007 and 2008 police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data Police force area 2007 2008 collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Avon and Somerset 10,807 10,045 Bedfordshire 3,293 3,214 Table 2: Number of penalty notices for disorder issued to offenders of 1 Cambridgeshire 4,437 4,287 all ages, by police force area, all offences, 2004 -08 England and Wales Cheshire 4,812 4,799 Police force area 2007 2008 City of London 802 589 Avon and Somerset 2,950 3,145 Cleveland 5,397 5,604 Bedfordshire 1,336 1,340 Cumbria 3,402 2,980 British Transport 4,867 4,479 Derbyshire 5,786 5,074 police Devon and 10,209 9,321 Cambridgeshire 2,249 2,065 Cornwall Cheshire 2,206 2,012 Dorset 3,850 3,686 City of London 415 217 Durham 4,025 3,793 Cleveland 3,803 3,468 Essex 14,369 10,499 Cumbria 1,650 1,099 Gloucestershire 3,501 3,744 Derbyshire 2,730 2,380 Greater Manchester 13,123 11,404 Devon and 5,703 3,277 Hampshire 9,185 7,437 Cornwall Hertfordshire 6,526 6,490 Dorset 1,798 1,309 Humberside 5,982 5,252 Durham 1,839 1,786 Kent 12,057 10,627 Essex 4,402 3,713 Lancashire 12,573 10,797 Gloucestershire 2,330 918 Leicestershire 5,589 4,480 Greater Manchester 9,896 8,499 Lincolnshire 4,067 4,326 Hampshire 6,005 3,854 Merseyside 6,464 7,077 Hertfordshire 4,428 3,326 Metropolitan Police 48,904 50,021 Humberside 8,339 6,414 Norfolk 3,838 3,901 Kent 7,960 8,403 North Yorkshire 3,616 3,289 Lancashire 12,856 10,595 Northamptonshire 4,778 4,132 Leicestershire 2,519 2,123 Northumbria 15,897 14,639 Lincolnshire 1,758 1,284 Nottinghamshire 8,910 6,790 Merseyside 9,270 10,573 South Yorkshire 11,635 9,441 Metropolitan 24,655 24,678 Staffordshire 8,731 4,923 Norfolk 1,560 2,038 Suffolk 4,311 4,093 North Yorkshire 3,715 2,285 Surrey 5,652 4,157 Northamptonshire 2,377 1,517 Sussex 11,518 8,495 Northumbria 7,542 7,615 Thames Valley 13,543 12,420 Nottinghamshire 2,551 2,035 Warwickshire 3,838 3,225 South Yorkshire 7,983 7,403 West Mercia 7,793 7,092 Staffordshire 2,967 2,526 West Midlands 21,582 20,968 Suffolk 1,879 1,850 West Yorkshire 17,753 12,833 Surrey 3,786 2,186 Wiltshire 2,341 2,921 Sussex 5,091 3,339 England 344,896 308,865 Thames Valley 8,538 7,859 Dyfed-Powys 4,437 3,865 Warwickshire 897 824 Gwent 5,735 4,651 West Mercia 2,914 2,568 North Wales 2,239 3,604 West Midlands 7,860 6,053 South Wales 5,588 5,909 West Yorkshire 6,002 3,393 Wales 17,999 18,029 Wiltshire 1,203 1,958 1059W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1060W

Table 2: Number of penalty notices for disorder issued to offenders of Table 1: Number of cannabis warnings recorded as method of all ages, by police force area, all offences, 20041-08 England and Wales detection for possession of cannabis offences, by police force area in England and Wales, 2007-08–2008-09 Police force area 2007 2008 Police force 1 England 192,829 166,406 area 2007-08 2008-09 Suffolk 599 744 Surrey 993 811 Dyfed Powys 995 996 Sussex 2,447 1,369 Gwent 1,861 1,978 Thames 2,753 2,518 North Wales 5,907 3,892 Valley South Wales 5,952 2,892 Warwickshire 399 342 West Mercia 756 872 Wales 14,715 9,758 West 2,286 2,229 England and Wales 207,544 176,164 Midlands 1 First year of PND scheme. Fully rolled out to all forces on 1 April West 1,340 1,245 2004. Yorkshire Note: Wiltshire 218 329 The British Transport police started issuing PNDs on 1 March 2006 England and 103,804 107,251 Wales Table 1: Number of cannabis warnings recorded as method of 1 detection for possession of cannabis offences, by police force area in Since 26 January 2009, penalty notices for disorder (PNDs) can be England and Wales, 2007-08–2008-09 given for cannabis possession. Up to the end of March 2009 such PNDs were counted together with cannabis warnings. Police force area 2007-08 2008-091 Police: Information and Communications Technology Avon and 2,554 2,598 Somerset Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for the Bedfordshire 289 347 Home Department what recent estimate he has made British 1,707 3,214 of the number of hand held ICT devices used by police Transport Police officers to receive information from and transmit Cambridgeshire 1,594 1,257 information to police stations. [319597] Cheshire 757 1,109 Cleveland 686 851 Mr. Hanson [holding answer 1 March 2010]: The Cumbria 218 272 total number of hand held ICT devices in use by frontline police officers as at 26 February 2010 is 42,824. Derbyshire 520 600 Devon and 1,380 1,571 Cornwall Police: Manpower Dorset 393 349 Durham 256 333 Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Dyfed-Powys 882 794 Home Department if he will make it his policy to Essex 1,348 1,597 increase the number of frontline police officers in Gloucestershire 459 529 England and Wales in the next five years. [318709] Greater 5,311 5,136 Manchester Alan Johnson: The Government’s priority is to protect Gwent 757 998 the frontline and maintain a focus on increasing public Hampshire 2,260 1,943 confidence in the police service and achieving improvements Hertfordshire 1,485 1,897 in value for money. To support this the Government Humberside 895 991 made clear in the pre-Budget report last December that Kent 846 1,276 it will provide sufficient funding in the next comprehensive Lancashire 528 791 spending review to enable police authorities to maintain Leicestershire 1,967 1,701 current numbers of police officers, police community Lincolnshire 508 491 support officers and other staff exercising police powers London, City 436 506 in the years to 2012-13. of The decision on the number and mix of frontline Merseyside 7,229 8,114 officers and other staff that will best serve the public is Metropolitan 46,979 47,204 an operational matter for individual chief constables police and police authorities to determine. Norfolk 786 751 Northamptonshire 311 439 Police: Pay Northumbria 916 1,459 North Wales 985 1,059 North 701 665 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Yorkshire Home Department what the (a) median and (b) mean Nottinghamshire 1,210 950 salary of a police constable in each police force was in South Wales 2,414 2,220 (i) cash and (ii) real terms in each year since 1997. South 1,296 1,627 [319339] Yorkshire Staffordshire 1,150 1,153 Mr. Hanson: This information is not held centrally. 1061W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1062W

Prisoners: Deportation Before 1997 there were no bespoke powers to tackle antisocial behaviour but there are now a range of powers Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the to deal with this issue. These include antisocial behaviour Home Department how many foreign national orders and designated public places orders (DPPO) prisoners were removed from the UK in each of the from the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 and as a past 10 years. [318701] result of their good work, Sandwell has been designated as an ASB Pioneer Area. The CDRP has also been instrumental in setting up an ASB Helpline in the Alan Johnson: The information requested in respect borough; to date this has received 31,598 calls. of foreign nationals removed from the UK prior to 2007 is not readily available and could be obtained only In 2008, the UK’s first ’no rogue trader’ zone was set at disproportionate cost. Published figures for the UK up Sandwell, this is a borough-wide initiative between Border Agency show that around 15,000 foreign nationals the police and trading standards to raise awareness of were removed or deported over the last three years. rogue trader tricks and encourage residents to report all suspicious activity. This information is taken from Internal Management Information and is subject to change. Through the CDRP an award winning domestic violence partnership (Sandwell Organisation Against Domestic Abuse) was set up in 2006 which had received 12,017 Sandwell referrals in total up to March 2009. The Neighbourhood Statistics Service provides a wide Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for the range of statistical information at parliamentary Home Department if he will set out, with statistical constituency level, taken from the 2001 Census and evidence relating as closely as possible to the borough other sources. This service is available on the National of Sandwell, the effects on that borough of changes to Statistics website at: his Department’s policies since 1997. [316471] http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk./ Mr. Alan Campbell: The Home Office has introduced Telephone Tapping: Newspaper Press a range of policies and initiatives since 2000. However, it is not always possible to quantify their effects particularly at constituency level. The available statistical information Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the therefore relates to the Sandwell Crime and Disorder Home Department pursuant to the answer of Reduction Partnership area. 11 January 2010, Official Report, columns 701-02W, on telephone tapping, how many individuals have been In terms of police recorded crime in Sandwell, between warned by the Metropolitan Police Service about the 2002-03 and 2008-09, total recorded crime fell by 41 per possible illegal interception of their communications cent. More specifically: since July 2009; how many such individuals are in the Violence against the person—down 20 per cent. (a) police, (b) military, (c) government and (d) royal Sexual offences—down 32 per cent. category; and how many individuals were so contacted Robbery—down 23 per cent. during the investigation which preceded the arrests of Burglary—down 52 per cent. Clive Goodman and Glenn Mulcaire in August 2006. [319080] Offences against vehicles—down 54 per cent. Other theft offences—down 31 per cent. Alan Johnson [holding answer 1 March 2010]: Further Criminal damage—down 31 per cent. to my answer to the hon. Member on 11 January 2010, Drug offences—up 37 per cent. (there has been increased Official Report, column 702W, where information exists recording of drug offences which was mainly attributable to to suggest some form of interception of an individual’s the increased use of police powers to issue cannabis warnings). phone was or may have been attempted by Clive Goodman Data prior to 2002-03 are not directly comparable and Glenn Mulcaire, the Metropolitan Police Service because of the introduction of the National Crime (MPS) has taken all necessary steps to ensure those Recording Standard in April 2002. individuals have been informed. Sandwell comes within the West Midlands K1 and The MPS is committed to respecting and protecting K2 Basic Command Units, which had 717 police officers the privacy of those who may have been subject to as at 30 March 2009. The number of police officers has illegal interception of their communications. The MPS increased by 32 since 2003. Comparisons with 1997 for considers that breaking down the small number of West Midlands K1 and K2 BCUs are not available. individuals contacted would undermine this commitment. There were 78 police community support officers as at 30 March 2009 while there were none in existence in United Kingdom Human Trafficking Centre 1997. The Crime and Disorder Act 1998 saw positive effects Mr. Steen: To ask the Secretary of State for the with the statutory duty to create a Crime and Disorder Home Department how many staff (a) have been and Reduction Partnership (CDRP). The CDRP has enabled (b) are seconded to work in the United Kingdom new ways of working in a cross cutting way with the Human Trafficking Centre from (i) the Police, (ii) the police, council and other key stakeholders to help tackle UK Border Agency, (iii) the Prison Service, (iv) the complex issues. Serious and Organised Crime Agency, (v) HM Revenue The Sandwell CDRP is well established and continues and Customs/UK Border Force, (vi) non-governmental with good results in terms of tackling antisocial behaviour organisations, (vii) social services and (viii) each other (ASB) and reducing crime and disorder. organisation. [319836] 1063W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1064W

Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 1 March 2010]: EST’s services are available to all UK citizens. These There have been 46 posts filled on secondment from the include a free telephone advice service (the Act on CO2 organisations listed above with 38 posts currently filled. Advice Line in England) which offers callers advice on The figures by agency are as shown in the table: energy saving behaviour, how to make our homes more energy efficient, energy efficient products, low carbon Total secondment Currently seconded energy, sustainable travel, efficient use of water, and posts staff waste minimisation. Advice and self-help tools are also Police civilian staff 25 23 available through EST’s web advice services. Police officers 5 The Carbon Trust (CT) provides specialist support to UKBA 5 3 business and the public sector to help cut carbon emissions, SOCA 5 4 save energy and commercialise low carbon technologies. HMRC/UKBF 1 1 It is not possible to provide a funding breakdown at a NGOs 3 1 constituency level for EST and CT support. Social Services 1 0 Other organisations (Crown 11 Prosecution Service) Environment Protection: Employment There are no staff seconded from the Prison Service. Mr. Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the proportion of the 1.2 million green jobs the ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Government plans to create by 2020 which are likely to be in Scotland. [318615] British Nuclear Fuels: Pay Joan Ruddock: The figure of 1.2 million green jobs in Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for the UK is an estimate of the potential growth in Energy and Climate Change what the salary was of the employment by 2014-15 based on an analysis of the Chief Executive of British Nuclear Fuels plc in 2009. Low Carbon and Environmental Goods and Services [319811] (LCEGS) sector (Innovas, March 2009, “Low Carbon and Environmental Goods and Services: An Industry Mr. Kidney: In 2009, the salary of the Chief Executive Analysis”). of British Nuclear Fuels Ltd was £447,185.In addition he received £44,718 to be used at his own discretion to While the Innovas study calculates that there were fund pension contributions. 73,000 people in the LCEGS sector in Scotland in 2007-08, it does not provide estimates of employment Climatic Research Unit numbers at a country level in 2014-15.

Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Feed-in Tariffs Energy and Climate Change how much funding his Department has provided to the University of East Dr. Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit in each of the last five and Climate Change whether his Department holds years. [319423] information for benchmarking purposes on feed-in- Joan Ruddock: Since the Department of Energy and tariff schemes on other EU member states. [319547] Climate Change (DECC) was formed in October 2008, it has not provided any funding to the Climatic Research Joan Ruddock: The ’Report on Qualitative Issues in Unit at the University of East Anglia. the Design of the GB Feed in Tariffs’, prepared for the Department by Element Energy and Poyry Energy Departmental Thefts Consulting, contains that information and can be found on the DECC website at: Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/ and Climate Change how many thefts from his elec_financial/elec_financial.aspx Department have been recorded since its inception. [318988] Natural Gas :Storage Joan Ruddock: The Department has recorded three thefts since its inception. Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change if he will review Lancashire Energy: Conservation County Council’s recent decision to refuse planning permission for additional gas storage capacity in that Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy area. [310933] and Climate Change what support the (a) Energy Savings Trust and (b) Carbon Trust has provided to Mr. Kidney: Lancashire county council refused planning the residents of Stroud constituency in each year since permission for the Canatxx gas storage project at Preesall 2004. [318978] on 27 January 2010. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change cannot review Joan Ruddock: The Energy Saving Trust (EST) is the case. The applicant may ask my right hon. Friend currently overseeing the Pay as You Save (PAYS) trials the Secretary of State for Communities and Local for DECC in which Stroud district council is participating. Government for a determination on appeal. 1065W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1066W

Nuclear Power Stations his Department and (b) Eaga have received in relation to (i) the installation and (ii) failure of boilers installed Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy under the Warm Front Scheme in each of the last five and Climate Change what recent assessment he has years. [316429] made of the merits of pebble-bed technology in the design of new nuclear reactors. [318260] Mr. Kidney: The level of information requested in relation to complaints received by the Department is Mr. Kidney: In line with the reactor designs currently available for the period August to November 2009. being assessed by the regulators through the Generic During that time 421 expressions of dissatisfaction Design Assessment (GDA) process, any new nuclear were received about a range of issues, of these, 80 cases reactors built over the next 10-15 years will be Generation relate to the quality of installation. The Department III designs. These designs are already available commercially. does not categorise complaints about boiler failure caused The pebble bed reactor is a Generation IV plus design by manufacturing faults. that is not yet available commercially and has not been The following table shows the number of complaints considered as part of the GDA process. received by eaga with regard to (i) boiler installation and (ii) boiler or system failure in each year under the Warm Front Scheme present phase of the Scheme (since 2005). The number of upheld complaints (complaints where a clear service Mr. Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for failure has been identified) is shown alongside these Energy and Climate Change how many complaints (a) figures.

2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-101 Total

Complaints -Installation 382 975 1,220 1,800 1,429 5,806 Upheld 29 78 47 185 174 513 Complaints -Boiler/System failure 232 665 994 998 739 3,628 Upheld 92 269 303 267 203 1,134 1 Data run to 4 February 2010

WALES JUSTICE Future Jobs Fund: Wales Departmental Energy Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales which companies in Wales have made successful Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for applications to the Future Jobs Fund; how many jobs Justice what steps his Department plans to take to have been created in respect of each application; when participate in the Earth Hour event on 27 March 2010. the jobs enabled by each application were advertised; [319097] and how many such vacancies have been filled. [318135] Mr. Wills: Throughout the Ministry of Justice (MoJ), Mr. Hain: The following organisations were successful as part of our continuing efforts to reduce energy in bidding for Future Jobs Fund money in Wales, with consumption, staff are regularly reminded to turn off the number of jobs expected to be created in brackets: computers, monitors and other electrical equipment, Groundwork (240 jobs); unplug mobile phone chargers and switch off lights Rhyl City Strategy (322 jobs); when rooms are not in use. As the 2010 Earth Hour Cardiff City Council (289 jobs); event is on Saturday 27 March, many of our buildings Hyfforddiant Ceredigion Training (100 jobs); will be unoccupied. The MoJ HQ estate will participate Pembrokeshire County Council (170 jobs); through contractors turning off any lighting not required Vale of Glamorgan Council (96 jobs); and ensuring meeting room co-ordinators check video link screens and televisions are not left on standby. Powys Partnership Future Jobs Fund (63 jobs); City of Swansea’s Employability Training (1,320 jobs); The MoJ will publicise the Earth Hour event to staff through the staff Intranet. Swansea Council for Voluntary Service (75 jobs); WCVA (2,500 jobs); Merthyr Tydfil Council (3,519 jobs); Departmental Theft Interlink (120 jobs); Carmarthenshire County Council (291 jobs); Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many thefts from his Department have been Neath Port Talbot County Council (288 jobs); recorded in the last two years. [318996] Newport Future Jobs Fund Partnership (472 jobs); Coalfields Regeneration Trust (80 jobs). Mr. Wills: The Department records theft and other These bids will bring a total of 9,945 jobs to Wales losses, but does not separately distinguish between the over the next 18 months. two for reporting purposes. The centrally recorded thefts Advertisement and recruitment into these positions is and losses during the last two financial years for the an ongoing process. Statistics for the number of starts Department and its predecessor, the Department for are not yet available but are being collated by the Constitutional Affairs (created in May 2007), including Department for Work and Pensions. its agencies and other offices, are: 1067W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1068W

Maria Eagle: The methodology used by Defence Number Analytical Services and Advice (DASA) to estimate the 2007-08 116 proportion of Armed Forces veterans in prison was 2008-09 203 published on the DASA website http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications/newWeb/www/ The number of such cases involving theft could be index.php?page=48&pubType=3&thiscontent=540&Publish provided only at disproportionate cost. This detail is Time=16:00:00&date=2010-01-25&disText=Single recorded in individual incident records held locally by %20Report&from=listing&topDate=2010-01-25 the Department’s various agencies and other business on 25 January 2010. areas. The increase in the number of incidents is believed The report describes in some length and detail who to be due to the increased awareness of the requirement was contained in databases held by the Ministry of for reporting, arising from the Data Handling Review. Defence (MOD) and the Ministry of Justice (MoJ), the variables used in the matching process and the advantages Ex-Servicemen: Prison and disadvantages of the approach taken. The date of the prison population extract taken to Mr. Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice inform this work was 6 November 2009. The total whether people (a) whose date of birth was number of people in prison in England and Wales was unavailable, (b) sent to prison before 1979 and (c) who 84,522. However, as only sentenced and remand prisoners had been reservists counted for the purposes of his aged 18 and over were matched, the denominator used Department’s determination of the number of veterans was 81,071. Non criminal prisoners and those aged in jails in England and Wales. [319840] under 18 were excluded from the matching process. No estimate of veterans in individual prisons has Maria Eagle: The methodology used by Defence been made because this was outside the scope of the Analytical Services and Advice (DASA) to estimate the project. proportion of armed forces veterans in prison was The MoD and MoJ are currently working to estimate published on the DASA website: the proportion of armed forces veterans under the http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications/newWeb/www/ supervision of the Probation Service. Results will be index.php?page=48&pubType=3&thiscontent=540&PublishTime published when complete. =16:00:00&date=2010-01-25&disText=Single %20Report&from=listing&topDate=2010-01-25 Freedom of Information on 25 January 2010. The report describes in some length and detail who Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for was contained in databases held by the Ministry of Justice (1) whether the provisions of the Freedom of Defence (MOD) and the Ministry of Justice (MoJ), the Information Act 2000 apply to documents relating to variables used in the matching process and the advantages the administrative duties conducted on behalf of HM (a) (b) and disadvantages of the approach taken. Courts Service by the Lord Chief Justice, the Master of the Rolls and (c) other judges; [319050] As date of birth was a required variable only those (2) whether his Department accepts legal records that contained a date of birth were used. This responsibility for the custody and control of amounted to around 81,000 valid records from the documents relating to the administrative duties prison database and around 1.3 million valid records conducted on behalf of HM Courts Service by (a) the from the MOD database. Lord Chief Justice, (b) the Master of the Rolls and (c) The date of the prison population extract taken to other judges. [319051] inform the matching work was 6 November 2009. If a person sent to prison before 1979 was still in prison on Mr. Wills: Members of the judiciary do not carry out this date then their record would have been used in the administrative duties on behalf of HM Court Service. matching process. There are accordingly no documents relating to such Reservists were not included in the matching process. duties. The Department does hold some information created Mr. Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice by the judiciary in the course of discharging their (1) whether people (a) whose first name was judicial functions, and there may be occasions when the unavailable, (b) under the age of 18 years, (c) who had judiciary hold information on behalf of the Department. changed their names on marriage and (d) known to The Department’s legal obligations in respect of such use aliases were counted for the purposes of his information under the Data Protection Act 1998, the Department’s determination of the number of service Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the Public Records veterans in prison; [319555] Act 1958 will depend on the facts of any given case. (2) what the prison population was when his Juries Department made its determination of the number of service veterans in the prison system; [319556] Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for (3) what his most recent estimate is of the number of Justice (1) how many people summoned for jury service service veterans in HM Prison (a) Manchester, (b) in Milton Keynes declined to carry out their service for Durham and (c) Everthorpe; [319557] each reason in each year since 1997; [319004] (4) what his most recent estimate is of the number of (2) how many people (a) were summoned for and service veterans under the supervision of the probation (b) undertook jury service in Milton Keynes in each service on (a) court orders and (b) parole. [319558] year since 1997. [319005] 1069W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1070W

Bridget Prentice: The following table shows, on a Data are organised under postal catchment areas to national level basis for each calendar year from 2000 to different Crown courts. Therefore residents from Milton 2008, the following: Keynes could be summoned to either Aylesbury or (a) how many people have been required for jury service Luton Crown court, which also covers other postal (b) how many people have been supplied to the court for jury area’s. service (c) how many people have been deferred from the original date Members of the public summoned for jury service they were summoned for jury service cannot decline to carry out jury service. However, a (d) how many people have been excused from jury service juror can apply to defer their jury service to a more (e) how many people have been disqualified from jury service. suitable date within the forthcoming 12-month period if the original date is not convenient. Jurors can apply to The Jury Central Summoning Bureau (JCSB) is not be excused from jury service but their application must able to supply the information for Milton Keynes as the show good cause why they should be excused from data cannot be extracted in this way by the computer attending. system.

Calendar year end 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Total number of summons issues 79,115 579,473 492,561 461,980 431,432 388,154 390,671 412,666 416,689 Total number of jurors supplied to the 24,907 187,080 197,599 184,833 187,114 185,193 181,966 182,661 183,506 court

Deferred to serve at a later date 8,860 61,435 59,786 59,528 65,754 63,741 61,254 66,174 66,806 Number refused deferral 22 214 297 340 288 286 172 122 103

Excused by right having served in past two years 4,700 32,368 29,120 28,247 14,887 4,333 4,277 4,518 4,244 child care 3,410 27,685 26,281 24,327 19,497 15,741 15,690 16,118 15,711 work commitments 2,781 26,640 25,628 19,373 14,961 14,419 15,998 16,428 16,857 medical 5,650 44,435 40,982 35,061 34,016 32,239 30,332 32,416 31,289 travel difficulties 186 2,394 1,811 1,110 813 672 720 651 690 student 736 5,468 5,899 3,979 2,438 2,150 2,209 2,273 2,429 moved from area 1,549 11,073 6,254 3,419 2,498 2,181 2,454 2,988 2,543 language difficulties 849 5,921 5,928 5,260 4,975 4,081 4,030 4,406 4,165 other 2,521 20,678 22,354 22,400 23,103 21,658 24,126 27,784 30,606 All excused 22,382 176,662 164,257 143,176 117,188 97,474 99,836 107,582 108,534 Number refused excusal 421 2,494 1,927 3,453 4,344 3,585 2,053 1,641 1,515

Disqualified—residency, mental 15,248 118,339 105,314 98,045 89,112 77,364 85,061 94,171 96,325 disorders, criminality Disqualified—on selection 5,989 48,271 59,892 58,830 55,410 49,765 53,031 58,900 59,017 Disqualified—failed Police National 0 69 160 139 148 193 185 207 225 Computer (PNC) check

Juries: Bexley (c) how many people have been deferred from the original date they were summoned for jury service; Mr. Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many people resident in the London (d) how many people have been excused from jury service; Borough of Bexley (a) were summoned for and (b) (e) how many people have been disqualified from jury service. undertook jury service in each year since 1997. [319470] Bridget Prentice: The following table shows, on a Information for each London borough is not held national level basis for each calendar year from 2000 to centrally as the information cannot be extracted in this 2008, the following: way by the computer system. Residents from the London (a) how many people have been required for jury service; borough of Bexley could be summoned to one of five (b) how many people have been supplied to the court for jury different court locations which also cover other postal service; areas.

Calendar year end 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Total number of summons issues 79,115 579,473 492,561 461,980 431,432 388,154 390,671 412,666 416,689 Total number of jurors supplied to the court 24,907 187,080 197,599 184,833 187,114 185,193 181,966 182,661 183,506

Deferred to serve at a later date 8,60 61,435 59,786 59,528 65,754 63,741 61,254 66,174 66,806 1071W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1072W

Calendar year end 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Number refused deferral 22 214 297 340 288 286 172 122 103

Excused—by right having served in past two 4,700 32,368 29,120 28,247 14,887 4,333 4,277 4,518 4,244 years Excused—child care 3,410 27,685 26,281 24,327 19,497 15,741 15,690 16,118 15,711 Excused—work commitments 2,781 26,640 25,628 19,373 14,961 14,419 15,998 16,428 16,857 Excused—medical 5,650 44,435 40,982 35,061 34,016 32,239 30,332 32,416 31,289 Excused—travel difficulties 186 2,394 1,811 1,110 813 672 720 651 690 Excused—student 736 5,468 5,899 3,979 2,438 2,150 2,209 2,273 2,429 Excused—moved from area 1,549 11,073 6,254 3,419 2,498 2,181 2,454 2,988 2,543 Excused—language difficulties 849 5,921 5,928 5,260 4,975 4,081 4,030 4,406 4,165 Excused—other 2,521 20,678 22,354 22,400 23,103 21,658 24,126 27,784 30,606 All excused 22,382 176,662 164,257 143,176 117,188 97,474 99,836 107,582 108,534 Number refused excusal 421 2,494 1,927 3,453 4,344 3,585 2,053 1,641 1,515

Disqualified—residency, mental disorders, 15,248 118,339 105,314 98,045 89,112 77,364 85,061 94,171 96,325 criminality Disqualified—on selection 5,989 48,271 59,892 58,830 55,410 49,765 53,031 58,900 59,017 Disqualified—failed Police National 0 69 160 139 148 193 185 207 225 Computer (PNC) check

Legal Aid registered there were in each of the smallest data areas in each year since 2005-06. [318764]

Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Bridget Prentice: The information requested is shown how many legal aid (a) matter starts and (b) claims in the following table.

Legal help cases started and claims made 2005-06 to 2008-09 Year 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Volume of Volume of Volume of Volume of claims claims claims claims Procurement area Case starts received Case starts received Case starts received Case starts received

Barking and Dagenham 2,427 2,297 2,364 2,382 2,061 1,853 2,543 2,275 Barnet 2,949 3,955 2,582 3,126 2,475 2,773 3,736 3,113 Barnsley 2,208 2,252 2,425 2,484 1,993 2,722 2,523 2,405 Bedfordshire 5,535 5,392 6,239 5,727 5,590 5,133 5,460 5,309 Berkshire 6,750 5,949 6,348 5,926 4,891 4,791 5,644 4,993 Bexley 1,205 1,377 882 1,141 951 1,208 1,415 1,459 Birmingham 23,968 25,220 23,680 24,379 23,989 22,812 26,069 26,698 Bolton 2,566 2,614 3,863 3,642 4,112 4,012 4,229 4,022 Bournemouth and Poole 3,143 3,598 3,130 3,350 2,446 2,590 3,590 3,193 Bradford 8,110 8,682 7,055 7,315 7,099 6,771 7,112 7,011 Brent 9,726 13,685 9,438 14,027 8,869 12,691 9,317 10,602 Bridgend, Cardiff and the Vale 12,277 11,612 13,087 13,373 13,364 12,274 13,589 12,768 Bromley 1,727 1,603 1,787 1,894 1,734 1,554 1,527 1,378 Buckinghamshire 5,183 5,179 5,139 5,525 5,209 5,026 5,472 5,830 Bury 1,650 1,542 1,952 1,911 1,855 1,830 2,333 2,169 Calderdale 1,614 1,624 1,694 1,591 1,747 1,662 2,394 2,146 Cambridgeshire 7,921 7,688 8,402 8,210 8,806 8,964 10,095 9,487 Camden 12,665 13,556 11,998 12,692 11,840 12,946 13,134 13,030 Central Wales 2,292 2,077 2,223 2,237 2,041 1,754 2,222 2,181 Cheshire 5,774 5,349 6,743 6,290 6,506 6,479 7,311 6,693 City of Bristol, South 12,094 12,096 12,795 13,016 12,125 12,801 12,782 12,216 Gloucestershire and North Somerset City of Derby 4,968 4,187 4,436 4,349 4,424 4,675 2,928 2,962 City of Kingston upon Hull 4,889 4,645 4,653 4,808 3,926 4,318 3,703 3,831 City of Leicester 5,007 6,339 4,592 4,687 5,112 5,105 4,552 3,982 City of Plymouth 4,761 4,526 4,823 4,862 4,082 4,470 4,809 4,716 City of Stoke-on-Trent 4,496 4,714 4,144 4,761 4,025 4,385 4,754 4,495 City of Westminster 4,954 5,129 5,346 5,081 4,845 5,106 3,290 4,346 City of Wolverhampton 4,392 4,109 4,438 4,482 4,649 4,257 5,035 4,856 1073W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1074W

Legal help cases started and claims made 2005-06 to 2008-09 Year 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Volume of Volume of Volume of Volume of claims claims claims claims Procurement area Case starts received Case starts received Case starts received Case starts received

Cornwall 7,786 6,615 6,891 6,661 6,845 7,068 7,099 6,906 Coventry 4,901 5,470 4,673 6,021 4,213 3,664 4,271 3,755 Croydon 3,255 3,347 3,546 3,922 3,129 3,381 4,223 3,698 Cumbria 7,119 5,762 7,617 6,808 6,761 6,870 6,997 6,889 Darlington 1,728 1,682 2,006 1,951 1,880 1,897 1,795 2,082 Devon 9,459 9,440 9,774 9,325 8,663 9,016 9,791 9,312 Doncaster 4,368 4,037 6,006 5,707 5,556 5,975 6,064 6,311 Dorset 2,723 2,545 2,866 2,724 2,639 2,834 2,829 2,639 Dudley 2,881 3,140 2,592 2,691 2,182 2,211 2,486 2,402 Durham 6,469 5,893 6,674 6,546 6,543 6,485 7,043 6,537 Ealing 8,640 13,057 14,527 13,939 11,736 13,058 13,599 13,207 East Essex 8,053 6,525 7,735 7,442 8,000 7,252 7,588 7,103 East Lancashire 8,699 8,804 9,225 9,245 7,911 7,820 8,058 7,586 East Riding of Yorkshire 942 927 945 900 1,024 874 920 854 East Sussex 5,182 5,272 5,458 5,134 5,619 5,450 6,575 6,149 Enfield 3,393 3,531 3,055 3,563 2,859 2,956 2,525 2,432 Gateshead 3,925 4,758 4,640 6,779 3,802 4,839 3,695 4,663 Gloucestershire 4,471 4,967 5,253 4,615 4,687 5,450 5,610 5,359 Greater Nottingham 11,098 11,256 11,147 10,687 11,115 10,250 10,860 11,169 Greenwich 2,302 2,941 2,461 2,158 2,209 2,111 2,503 2,171 Hackney and City of London 16,158 20,821 14,707 17,408 15,610 17,044 16,370 17,963 Hammersmith and Fulham 5,525 7,012 5,401 6,939 3,664 6,318 3,760 5,235 Hampshire 6,418 6,569 6,274 6,385 5,810 6,120 6,736 6,435 Haringey 7,055 10,524 6,901 9,901 5,944 7,329 8,141 7,735 Harrow 3,351 5,012 3,443 3,486 4,537 4,287 6,288 5,301 Hartlepool 2,173 2,725 2,173 2,287 2,212 2,197 2,508 2,337 Havering 944 1,034 1,295 1,167 1,138 1,307 1,928 1,575 Herefordshire and 5,488 5,441 5,597 5,573 5,165 5,450 6,019 5,784 Worcestershire Hillingdon 652 785 856 1,059 1,312 1,509 2,111 1,760 Hounslow 2,219 2,657 1,128 1,098 1,425 1,112 1,302 1,329 Islington 8,680 10,613 9,140 9,807 7,923 8,559 7,443 8,316 Kensington and Chelsea 4,954 4,577 4,514 5,119 4,064 5,158 5,422 5,545 Kingston upon Thames and 1,166 1,084 1,382 1,403 1,784 1,485 1,872 1,604 Richmond upon Thames Kirklees 5,767 5,373 5,554 5,299 5,695 5,712 5,916 5,805 Knowsley 3,000 2,812 3,043 2,777 2,948 3,174 2,400 2,731 Lambeth 7,203 7,319 7,258 7,528 5,747 5,881 6,307 6,156 Leeds 9,418 10,024 9,925 10,356 11,872 9,805 14,286 14,966 Leicestershire and Rutland 2,888 2,805 3,282 3,358 3,375 3,563 3,732 4,192 Lewisham 2,795 2,569 2,541 3,134 1,567 1,636 2,073 1,949 Lincolnshire 8,324 8,069 8,388 8,581 8,279 7,750 7,902 7,824 Liverpool 17,380 17,642 19,526 18,197 19,595 19,383 19,481 19,820 Manchester 10,534 11,940 10,695 10,778 10,718 9,820 12,043 11,674 Merton and Sutton 1,903 1,271 2,398 2,402 3,084 2,787 2,721 2,889 Mid and South West Kent 3,284 3,191 3,979 3,400 3,726 3,366 5,158 4,419 Middlesbrough 4,200 4,904 4,337 4,516 3,617 3,898 3,719 4,176 Neath Port Talbot and Swansea 9,346 9,063 9,870 8,967 9,488 8,677 10,849 10,044 Newcastle upon Tyne 6,976 7,386 7,853 7,781 7,230 7,295 7,714 7,871 Newham 11,319 13,579 12,387 12,333 11,926 10,756 11,322 10,676 Norfolk 9,091 9,267 10,353 8,899 10,341 9,317 12,984 11,639 North Derbyshire 3,436 3,552 3,818 3,645 3,372 3,336 3,664 3,582 North East Lincolnshire and 5,100 4,524 4,600 4,872 4,281 4,579 4,931 4,512 North Lincolnshire North East Wales 6,353 6,380 5,266 5,180 5,757 4,996 5,636 5,228 North Hertfordshire 2,321 2,512 2,340 2,348 2,553 2,488 3,324 3,080 North Kent and Medway 4,554 4,482 4,668 4,622 4,864 4,673 6,230 5,627 North Nottinghamshire 6,318 6,758 6,036 6,060 6,444 6,365 6,596 6,058 North Tyneside 4,616 4,516 4,669 4,557 4,524 4,073 4,917 4,516 North West Wales 3,176 2,803 3,157 2,928 2,943 2,664 3,241 2,959 North Yorkshire 5,052 4,721 5,687 5,213 5,188 5,408 5,746 5,221 1075W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1076W

Legal help cases started and claims made 2005-06 to 2008-09 Year 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Volume of Volume of Volume of Volume of claims claims claims claims Procurement area Case starts received Case starts received Case starts received Case starts received

Northamptonshire 5,636 5,024 5,776 5,168 5,530 5,226 7,000 6,199 Northumberland 5,795 5,193 4,987 5,335 4,863 4,752 5,524 4,952 Oldham 3,213 3,000 3,554 3,189 3,110 3,355 3,989 3,576 Oxfordshire 5,417 5,318 5,144 5,500 6,317 5,420 6,890 6,744 Portsmouth and Isle of Wight 5,566 5,209 5,262 5,461 4,641 4,970 4,047 4,180 Redbridge 2,045 3,164 2,315 2,377 1,748 1,551 2,317 1,988 Redcar and Cleveland 2,926 2,772 2,952 3,007 3,104 2,848 2,909 2,777 Rhondda Cynon Taff and 4,146 4,071 4,101 4,108 4,799 4,333 4,764 4,504 Merthyr Tydfil Rochdale 3,317 3,304 2,887 3,037 2,723 2,711 2,790 2,748 Rotherham 3,005 3,453 3,224 3,792 3,725 3,462 3,968 3,700 Salford 6,408 7,842 7,486 6,108 7,761 7,323 7,475 8,197 Sandwell 2,487 2,710 2,662 2,776 2,607 2,476 3,039 3,260 Sefton 3,079 2,861 3,426 2,923 3,086 2,991 3,954 3,573 Sheffield 9,174 9,656 10,008 9,770 9,537 9,175 10,629 11,139 Shropshire 6,000 6,034 6,001 6,137 5,828 5,770 6,114 5,856 Solihull 998 900 1,072 1,038 921 945 1,290 1,268 Somerset 6,673 6,820 7,045 7,935 6,598 7,178 7,637 7,416 South Derbyshire 1,728 1,738 2,064 1,637 1,867 1,625 1,657 1,451 South East Wales 9,438 8,635 10,107 9,594 9,123 8,703 10,014 9,915 South Hertfordshire 2,935 5,713 2,364 4,845 1,966 1,925 3,061 2,413 South Tyneside 2,686 2,207 2,802 2,669 2,652 2,352 3,100 2,793 South West Wales 3,900 3,564 4,489 3,987 4,357 3,962 4,386 3,761 Southampton 2,298 2,148 2,709 2,431 3,133 2,333 2,829 3,006 Southwark 8,988 8,530 9,520 10,055 11,228 9,277 11,759 10,536 St. Helens 4,424 4,249 4,809 4,664 5,856 4,840 5,385 5,323 Staffordshire 5,427 5,029 5,848 5,581 5,750 5,915 5,492 5,379 Stockport 2,319 2,030 2,788 2,326 3,003 2,443 3,039 2,924 Stockton-on-Tees 3,641 3,820 3,951 3,979 3,647 3,754 4,252 4,073 Suffolk 5,223 5,390 4,958 5,046 4,769 5,427 5,582 5,242 Sunderland 5,757 5,571 6,306 5,524 5,484 5,272 5,756 5,505 Surrey 2,107 1,907 2,215 2,060 1,824 1,909 2,874 2,561 Tameside 2,206 2,185 2,272 2,406 2,034 1,613 1,982 1,919 The City of Brighton and Hove 5,359 5,142 5,823 5,685 5,380 5,278 5,355 5,071 The Kent Coast 5,818 6,326 6,616 6,134 6,006 6,409 7,814 7,286 Tower Hamlets 7,788 9,816 8,711 9,857 11,030 9,798 14,339 14,526 Trafford 1,083 1,077 1,996 1,460 1,932 1,753 2,914 2,677 Wakefield 4,100 4,202 4,348 4,287 3,948 3,728 3,809 3,587 Walsall 4,720 4,874 5,055 5,028 4,332 4,200 4,483 4,171 Waltham Forest 1,913 2,019 2,235 2,116 2,328 2,157 2,379 2,292 Wandsworth 6,162 8,295 4,961 5,660 5,626 6,125 7,146 6,920 Warrington and Halton 3,634 3,575 3,494 3,681 3,456 3,429 3,525 3,446 Warwickshire 3,329 3,340 3,520 3,379 3,240 3,499 3,627 3,518 West Essex 6,581 7,016 7,397 7,570 7,565 7,831 8,575 8,393 West Lancashire 10,660 10,242 11,321 10,791 10,875 10,499 11,107 10,520 West Sussex 3,521 3,614 4,103 4,094 4,432 4,607 4,921 5,036 Wigan 4,290 4,500 4,263 4,261 4,452 4,318 5,151 4,631 Wiltshire 4,903 5,457 5,540 5,631 5,549 5,513 7,152 6,752 Wirral 9,062 7,444 8,057 8,182 8,608 7,928 8,512 8,743 TOTALS 713,667 744,267 740,334 751,730 720,211 716,608 785,204 764,370

Probation: Wales structure put forward in the application for trust status. The final structure would be a matter for the trust’s board and its chief executive when appointed. Mr. Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what the management structure will be of the Trust Board All-Wales Probation Trust. [319839] Chief Executive Maria Eagle: An interim management structure has Director for Interventions and Business; Development Director been implemented in preparation for transition to trust for Resources; Director for Local Delivery status, which is as follows. This is based on the proposed 10 Local Delivery Unit Heads. 1077W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1078W

WOMEN AND EQUALITY DEFENCE Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations Departmental Energy Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Rogerson: To ask the Minister for Women and Defence (1) what reports have been received of the Equality what steps the Government Equalities Office names of the 27 civilians killed by NATO action in plans to take to participate in the Earth Hour event on Uruzgan province on 21 February 2010; [319237] 27 March 2010. [319104] (2) what reports have been received of the names of the five civilians killed by NATO action in Kandahar Michael Jabez Foster: GEO’s offices are in a on 15 February 2010; [319238] Communities and Local Government building and will (3) what reports have been received of the names of be subject to any response CLG makes to Earth Hour. the 12 civilians killed by NATO action in Marjah on 14 February 2010 during Operation Moshtarak. Departmental Internet [319239] Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The International Security Assistance Mr. Heald: To ask the Minister for Women and Force, of which the UK are an integral part, is deeply Equality how many designs for its website the saddened by any incident involving civilian deaths. However, Government Equalities Office has commissioned since these incidents occurred outside of the UK area of its inception. [318639] operations and no UK forces were involved. In light of this, and the ongoing investigations into the incidents, it Michael Jabez Foster: The Government Equalities would not be appropriate for me to comment further. has commissioned two designs for its website since its inception in October 2007. Armed Forces

Departmental Sick Leave Michael Fabricant: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence which (a) hon. Members and (b) Members of the House of Lords responded in writing to the inquiry David Simpson: To ask the Minister for Women and into national recognition of the armed forces Equality how many staff in the (a) Government undertaken by the hon. Member for Grantham and Equalities Office and (b) Equality and Human Rights Stamford. [318667] Commission have had five or more periods of sickness absence of less than five days in two or more of the last Mr. Kevan Jones: All those who were officially consulted three years. [316451] by the inquiry team into National Recognition of the Armed Forces are named in the final report, a copy of Michael Jabez Foster: The Government Equalities which is in the Library of the House. Given that all Office does not hold information on sickness absence other contributions were provided voluntarily by individuals from before October 2007. Since October 2008, no staff on the understanding that they would be treated in in the Government Equalities Office have had five or confidence, it would be inappropriate for the Government more periods of sickness absence of less than five days. to release their names. Four staff in the Equality and Human Rights Armed Forces Compensation Scheme Commission have had five or more periods of sickness absence of less than five days in two or more of the last Dr. Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for three years. Defence what estimate he has made of the cost in 2009-10 to his Department of the changes to the Public Meetings Armed Forces Compensation Scheme announced on 10 February 2010. [318027] Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Minister for Women and Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 22 February 2010]: Equality how many public meetings the Government The Ministry of Defence (MOD) accounts for the liabilities Equalities Office has held in each year since its arising from the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme inception. [319348] on an accruals basis, which means that the full life-time value of awards is set aside in the year in which the Michael Jabez Foster: No annual figures are kept but injury, illness or death occurred, even though payments since its establishment in October 2007, the GEO has may be made through the Guaranteed Income Payments held the following public meetings: over an individual’s lifetime. Details of the existing consultations on the Equality Bill (8); liabilities can be found in the Armed Forces Pension Women in Focus events, which promoted the use of the gender Scheme resource accounts which are placed in the Library equality duty and aimed to improved outcomes for women of the House. offenders (10); The MOD has estimated that the additional liabilities events that form part of the campaign to promote public arising from the changes proposed in the review would appointments (29); be between around £30 million and £40 million per the Black And Minority Ethnic Women Councillor’s Taskforce annum. These liabilities would be met from within events (16); and existing provision in the Defence budget. roundtable events to discuss the National Equality Framework The liabilities (or cost) in 2009-10 do not arise until (5). the necessary legislative amendments to the scheme are 1079W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1080W actually in place. The accounts in the financial year in Mr. Kevan Jones: War disablement pensions are not which the legislation is made will reflect the change in taxable and recipients of war disablement pensions are liabilities arising from the review. not affected by the recent issuing, by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, of incorrect tax code notices to Armed Forces: Leave recipients of attributable pensions under the Armed Forces Pension Scheme. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Information on the number of complaints and requests Defence how many serving members of the (a) Army, for clarification made to the Ministry of Defence on the (b) RoyalNavyand(c) Royal Air Force have taken (i) tax code issue is not held centrally and could be provided maternity and (ii) paternity leave in the last 12 months. only at disproportionate cost. [319724]

Mr. Kevan Jones: The number of armed forces personnel Armed Forces: Training who have taken either maternity or paternity leave, during the period 25 February 2009 until 24 February Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010, broken down by service is detailed in the following Defence how many graduates there were from Royal table: Air Force college Cranwell in each of the last 10 years; and how many of them are still employed within the Absence RAF. [319243] type Army RAF Navy Grand total

Maternity 760 500 280 1,540 Bill Rammell: In 2005, the Initial Officer Training Paternity 950 850 220 2,020 (IOT) course was restructured and a new data system Note: was introduced. Retrieving data from pre-2006 would When rounding to the nearest 10, numbers ending in five have been rounded to require a manual search of paper records and so this the nearest multiple of 20 to prevent systematic bias. Due to the rounding the sum of the component parts may not equal the total. information could only be provided at disproportionate cost. Armed Forces: Pensions The number of Officer graduates from the Royal Air Force College Cranwell, by year, were: Dr. Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate he has made of the number of Number people (a) eligible and (b) likely to file cases for review under the revised arrangements for the Armed Forces 2006 282 Pension Compensation scheme. [319455] 2007 371 2008 574 Mr. Kevan Jones [holding answer 1 March 2010]: All 2009 547 those personnel in receipt of an award under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme (some 5,500 as at September The figures for 2006 are incomplete as the data 2009) will have their cases reviewed to ensure their collection did not commence until July, with the first awards reflect the recommendations made by Lord graduation of the restructured IOT course. The increased Boyce’s review, which the Government have agreed to output between 2007 and 2008 is due to an increase in implement in full. There will therefore be no need for RAF recruitment to meet the increasing demand in individuals to file their cases for review as the MOD will manpower establishment. automatically conduct case reviews and contact all previous The number of graduates still employed within the claimants to inform them of the increased benefits they RAF is not held centrally and could only be provided will receive. We are committed to implementing the by manual searches through the Joint Personnel legislative changes arising from the review of the scheme Administration database at disproportionate cost. within a year. Individual awards will be re-examined once the new legislation is in place. All new claimants Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for under the scheme will, of course, benefit from the Defence how many graduates there were from improvements being made in the same way. Commando Training Centre Royal Marines in each of the last 10 years; and how many of them are still Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for employed within the Royal Marines. [319244] Defence how many (a) complaints and (b) requests for clarification on the taxation of war pensions his Bill Rammell: The number of Royal Marines personnel Department has received from former service to pass out of Commando Training Centre Royal Marines personnel in the last two years. [319944] (CTCRM) in each of the last 10 years is as follows:

Commando Training Centre Royal Marines 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

RM officers — 28 43 37 28 38 33 35 36 39 RM other ranks 500 566 602 663 612 458 568 569 557 574 AACC1 ————156101194164265204 RMR RFCC2 ————464846476666 1 The All Arms Commando Course (AACC) is conducted primarily to train personnel who will serve either with or support of 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines and is undertaken by service personnel from the Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force. 2 The Royal Marine Reserve, Reserve Forces Commando Course (RMR RFCC) is undertaken by Royal Marine Reserve candidates prior to full Commando Training. 1081W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1082W

In order to provide the figures prior to 2001 for Royal Mr. Quentin Davies: The Ministry of Defence has Marine officers and before 2004 for AACC and RMR procured a range of hand-held metal detecting equipments RFCC would require a manual search of records which that can be used for detecting mines and IEDs. Costs could be provided only at disproportionate cost. are only available from financial year 2006-07, the year Information on how many of these graduates are still of initial purchase, for the current primary equipment employed within the Royal Marines is not held centrally and are broken down as follows: and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. £ million Armed Forces: Vehicles Equipment Acquisition cost Maintenance cost

2006-07 1.168 0 Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 2.345 0 Defence how many times the Truck Cargo Heavy Duty 2008-09 5.066 0 convoy has had to return to base with its journey 2009-10 8.216 0.136 uncompleted for each reason in the last three years. [319189] In addition, approximately £3 million in total over the last 10 years has been spent on a range of specialist Mr. Quentin Davies: The Truck Cargo Heavy Duty metal detectors. To break this figure down further, convoy has not had to return to base with its journey could be done only at disproportionate cost. uncompleted on any occasion in the last three years. Armoured Fighting Vehicles Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what percentage of his Department’s hand- held mine detectors are (a) in service and (b) fit for Mr. Swire: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence purpose. [319158] whether he has made an assessment of the merits of the use of mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles by the Mr. Quentin Davies: 100 per cent. of the Department’s armed forces. [318074] hand held metal detectors are in service and approximately 91 per cent. are available (i.e. fit for purpose). Mr. Quentin Davies: The term “Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected” or “MRAP” is a term used within the United States armed forces, and encapsulates a family of protected Cadets vehicles. Force Protection Industries have supplied Cougar vehicles for the US MRAP programme; two of these Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for vehicles, the Cougar 4x4 and Cougar 6x6, are the base Defence how many (a) grammar, (b) comprehensive vehicles for the Mastiff and Ridgback protected vehicles and (c) academy schools had operational Combined in service with the UK armed forces. Cadet Forces in the last year for which figures are Mastiff and Ridgback were acquired following available. [319983] assessments against a range of key requirements and ability to deliver within Urgent Operational Requirement Mr. Kevan Jones: As at 1 April 2009, the position in timelines. Since their entry into service, these vehicles the state sector was: have an excellent protection record and are vehicles of State grammar schools: 22; choice for commanders. State academies: 4; Other state schools: 34. Atomic Weapons Establishment: Floods Chemical Weapons: Animals Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence with reference to the answer to the hon. Member for North Devon of 10 November 2009, Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Official Report, column 231W, on the Atomic Weapons pursuant to the answer of 9 February 2010, Official Establishment: floods, when he expects discussions Report, columns 811-12W, on chemical weapons: with insurers on the costs arising from the July 2007 animals, what the reasons are for the increase in the flooding at the Atomic Weapons Establishment to be number of non-human primate tests between 2008-09; concluded. [319192] and whether any such tests have been conducted on human beings since 2005. [317541] Mr. Bob Ainsworth: Following analysis by Ministry of Defence officials of the Atomic Weapons Establishment Mr. Quentin Davies: The number of procedures Management Ltd. (AWEML) report on this issue, the conducted on animals depends on the demand from the matter has largely been concluded. Only one minor item MOD research programme. The increase in the number remains to be agreed between AWEML and one of its of procedures returned by Dstl involving non-human contractors. It is anticipated that this will be resolved primates in 2009 is due to the maturity of long term within three months. projects within the research programme. One of these projects concerns the development of new medical Bomb Disposal countermeasures which require the development of a non-human primate model of human infection. The Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for model is required for the regulatory approval of new Defence how much his Department has spent on (a) medical countermeasures to a range of bacterial and acquiring and (b) maintaining hand-held mine viral infections which are relevant in both military and detectors in each of the last 10 years. [319157] civilian environments. 1083W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1084W

The other factor that contributed to the rise in numbers Mr. Quentin Davies: In April 2009 the Chief Scientific is another project which followed on from earlier studies Adviser (CS A) commissioned an internal review of conducted in a rodent species. These studies determined how all Science and Technology (S&T) is delivered a necessity for work in a species closer to man to assess within the Ministry of Defence (MOD). the clinical effects of the inhalation of various chemical The review determined that in the interests of achieving materials. the best value for money from MOD’s S&T investment, The studies undertaken at Dstl Porton Down with the science|innovation|technology top-level budget (SIT human participants do not involve the use of chemical TLB) should stand down, with its tasks integrated in warfare agents. Studies involving the use of service the future by the Centre TLB and the Defence Science volunteers since 2005 have included the assessment of and Technology Laboratory (Dstl). The Defence candidate prophylactic and therapeutic drugs, and the Technology and Innovation Centre (DTIC) is a part of physiological and psychological impact of wearing various SIT and thus it too will be standing down. combinations of personal protective clothing, including respirators. Departmental Housing Defence Nuclear Weapon Regulator Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much his Department received from (a) Defence pursuant to the answer of 14 December 2009, renting and (b) leasing its housing stock in Scotland to Official Report, column 825W, on the Defence Nuclear private companies or individuals in each of the last five Weapons Regulator, what the (a) terms of reference years. [319354] and (b) mission and objectives are of the Defence Nuclear Weapons Regulator. [319185] Mr. Kevan Jones: Service family accommodation (SFA) is provided to accommodate entitled service Mr. Kevan Jones: As explained in my answer on personnel and their families. However, where there is 14 December 2009, Official Report, column 825W, the no short-to-medium term requirement for SFA, but a Nuclear Weapon Regulator is an officer within the long-term requirement remains, the Department will do Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator (DNSR). The mission/ all it can to make properties available to the wider objective of DNSR is to regulate the nuclear and community. radiological safety of the defence nuclear programmes While information for the last five years could be so that they are managed with due regard for the provided only at disproportionate cost, there are at protection of the work force, the public and the present 15 SFA properties leased to Moray council for environment. As an individual, the Nuclear Weapon use as social housing at an annual rent of £3,600 per Regulator does not have a mission separate from that of property. This arrangement began in 2009. the DNSR team as a whole. In addition, Tri-Service Accommodation Regulations The Nuclear Weapon Regulator’s terms of reference allow for the occupancy of available SFA by eligible are in the form of a letter of delegation from the head of civilian occupants. There are currently six eligible civilian DNSR which provides regulatory authority: occupants of SFA in Scotland. Civilian occupancy charges To give permission for nuclear activities on the basis of formal are set in accordance with local market rates and at safety submissions, reviews and inspections. present this totals £2,755.34 per month. To approve/agree nuclear safety submissions and safety management arrangements. Departmental Private Finance Initiative To offer formal regulatory advice to the authorisee’s representatives. To direct the postponement or cessation of specific nuclear weapons programme activity. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for To assess the demonstration of emergency arrangements. Defence how many of his Department’s private finance initiative projects have been delayed because of Defence Technology and Innovation Centre problems obtaining finance; and what the monetary value is of the contract for each such project. [319235] Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what his most recent estimate is of the budget Bill Rammell: The Department is not aware of any outturn of the Defence Technology and Innovation Ministry of Defence private finance initiative projects Centre for 2009-10; and if he will make a statement. that have been delayed because of problems obtaining [318293] finance.

Mr. Quentin Davies: The current 2009-10 outturn Future Large Aircraft forecast for the Defence Technology and Innovation Centre is £308 million. This can be split into research expenditure of £303 million and operating costs of Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence £5 million. how much additional funding the UK committed to the A400M programme at the EU Defence Ministers’ Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for meeting at Palma de Mallorca on 24 to 25 February Defence what recent assessment he has made of the 2010. [319990] value for money of the Defence Technology and Innovation Centre; and if he will make a statement. Mr. Quentin Davies: The UK did not commit any [318294] additional funding at this meeting. 1085W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1086W

Government Car and Dispatch Agency Mr. Quentin Davies: Operational capability is measured in terms of flying hours rather than the number of Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for airframes available. All rotary wing operational requirements Defence how much his Department paid to the are currently being met. Government Car and Despatch Agency in each of the Aircraft defined as available (i.e. fit for purpose) are last five years; how much it has spent on such payments those within the forward fleet that are considered capable in 2009-10; and what proportion of such payments was of carrying out their planned missions on a given date. made in respect of the Government Car Service. The number of helicopters available varies from day to [316420] day due to routine maintenance requirements. All aircraft in the forward fleet which are not available Mr. Kevan Jones: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) are classified as short-term unserviceable. Aircraft in paid £90,035 to the Government Car and Despatch this category will be undergoing first-line maintenance, Agency (GCDA) in 2008-09, wholly for the Government other minor works or being prepared for transportation. Car Service (GCS). This amount includes the cost of Aircraft which are short-term unserviceable can usually the car allocated for use by the Secretary of State for be made available relatively quickly. Defence as reported by my right hon. Friend the Secretary The in service total includes aircraft in both the of State for Transport in his written ministerial statement forward fleet and the depth fleet. Aircraft in the depth on 16 July 2009, Official Report, columns 79-80WS. The fleet are those undergoing modifications, depth Secretary of State’s car is provided as part of a range of maintenance, repair and those in storage. security measures connected with the role. MOD payments to the GCDA so far in 2009-10 have totalled £90,535. Average across January 2010 Aircraft type In service Forward fleet Available

Iraq and Afghanistan Navy: Sea King 4/6 42 29 18 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Lynx Mk3 27 19 10 Defence how many (a) Army, (b) RoyalNavyand(c) Lynx Mk8 33 19 12 Royal Air Force (i) fixed wing aircraft and (ii) Merlin Mkl 42 23 14 helicopters are deployed in (A) Iraq, (B) Germany, (C) Sea King Mk5 15 11 7 Afghanistan, (D) Cyprus, (E) Diego Garcia, (F) the Sea King Mk7 13 11 7 Falkland Islands and the South Atlantic, (G) Gibraltar, (SKASac) (H) Kuwait, (I) Ascension Island, (J) the United Arab Army: Emirates, (K) Oman, (L) Bahrain and (M) at sea. Apache 67 44 18 [316489] N3444 Lynx Mk7 77 44 29 Bill Rammell: There are no manned UK military Lynx Mk9/9A 23 9 8 aircraft deployed in Iraq, Cyprus, Diego Garcia, Gibraltar, Gazelle 27 22 14 Kuwait, the UAE or Ascension Island. Bell 212 8 8 8 There are 12 Army helicopters permanently based in RAF: Germany, though some of these may be deployed on Chinook Mk2/3 48 29 21 operations or in the UK for maintenance at any given Merlin Mk3/3A 28 20 10 time. Puma 43 22 11 There are 12 RAF manned fixed-wing aircraft in Sea King 25 16 9 Mk3/3a Afghanistan. All three services have helicopters in Afghanistan and there are three Royal Navy helicopters deployed to Oman. I am withholding further information Military Aircraft: Training on numbers in operational theatres because it would, or would be likely to, prejudice the efficiency, security and Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for capability of the armed forces. Defence how many training hours (a) helicopter pilots In the Falkland Islands and the South Atlantic there and (b) trainee helicopter pilots spent on average in are six manned fixed wing aircraft and two helicopters, each aircraft type in the Royal Air Force in each (i) year all from the RAF. since 2005 and (ii) month of 2009. [319240] There are no manned fixed-wing aircraft at sea. There are currently 10 Royal Navy helicopters at sea. Bill Rammell: To become a qualified RAF helicopter All figures and types are only for aircraft deployed on pilot individuals undertake initial flying training. Once operations as at 23 February 2010. Aircraft may also be qualified, pilots are trained to adapt their flying skills to temporarily overseas for exercises or other short-term a specific aircraft type which is known as operational visits. conversion unit training. Both types of training are conducted through standardised packages with a set Military Aircraft: Helicopters number of flying hours for each pilot. The level of flying required of each pilot for both categories has not changed significantly since 2005. Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many helicopters of each type in each armed The training hours for initial flying training for each service were (a) in service, (b) in the forward fleet and aircraft type are: (c) fit for purpose on the latest date for which figures Squirrel: 84 hours, 45 minutes; are available. [319492] Griffin: 77 hours. 1087W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1088W

The training hours for operational conversion unit Mr. Quentin Davies: After clarification I understand training for each aircraft type are: that your question refers to how much the Department Merlin: 29 hours; has spent on joint European equipment acquisition Puma: 55 hours; projects over the past 10 years. Records containing the information you seek for all joint European Chinook: 125 hours; equipment projects is not held centrally and could be Sea King: 70 hours; provided only at disproportionate cost. I am, however, Augusta Western: 28 hours. able to provide you with expenditure information on the Pilots record their own training hours within their largest of these projects drawing on information published personal log books. To determine the average training in the Major Project Reports. This is provided in the hours helicopter pilots undertake outside of these training table. courses would require a manual extraction of data from The table includes costs for the Type 45 destroyer each individual’s flying log followed by analysis. This project. This is a UK project, but an element of the information is not held centrally and could be obtained costs relate to procurement of the Sea Viper (formerly at only disproportionate cost. PAAMS) missile, which is being procured collaboratively Public Expenditure with France and Italy. The costs for Sea Viper are not recorded separately. Mr. Swire: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence It has only been possible to provide expenditure how much his Department has spent on joint European incurred in-year for the years 2000 to 2008. This information projects in each of the last 10 years. [318073] was not collected for Major Projects Report 2009.

Ministry of Defence—major projects report £ million Cost up to March March March March March March March March Description March 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

A400M — — 2 0 36 67 94 135 230 Beyond Visual Range Air-To- ———834191866997 Air Missile (BVRAAM) Eurofighter (Typhoon) 4,367 1,077 1,110 1,136 884 908 1,101 1,208 502 Eurofighter Aircrew — — 76 55 39 22 — — — Synthetic Training Aids (ASTA) Typhoon Future Capability ————————70 Programme Medium Range TRIGAT 107 2 ——————— Multi-Role Armoured 6114 9————— Vehicle (MRAV) T45 Destroyer (including Sea — — 487 367 641 777 581 624 640 Viper (PAAMS)) Total 4,480 1,090 1,679 1,650 1,641 1,865 1,862 2,036 1,539

Royal Military Academy Figures prior to financial year 2001-02 are not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Regular Officer information for 2009-10 does Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for include a cohort of Officer Cadets who will pass out at Defence how many graduates there were from RMA Easter. Subject to any late removals from course this Sandhurst in each of the last 10 years; and how many number may change. All TA courses for this period have of them are still employed within the Army. [319241] completed. Information on how many of those who graduated Bill Rammell: The number of Regular and TA Officers from Sandhurst in these years and are still employed who have graduated from the Royal Military Academy within the Army is not held centrally and could be of Sandhurst in each of the last nine financial years is provided only at disproportionate cost. shown in the following table. Output from RMAS Royal Naval College Regular Territorial Army

2001-02 714 257 2002-03 720 261 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2003-04 713 287 Defence how many graduates there were from 2004-05 746 195 Britannia Royal Naval College in each of the last 10 2005-06 752 115 years; and how many of them are still employed within 2006-07 707 172 the Navy. [319242] 2007-08 712 217 2008-09 713 171 Bill Rammell: The number of Royal Navy personnel 2009-10 645 157 to pass out of Britannia Royal Navy College (BRNC) in each of the last 10 years is as follows: 1089W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1090W

Britannia Royal Navy College 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

Royal Navy1 478 446 418 372 330 320 320 325 248 314 Royal Fleet Auxiliary 0 0 20 0 25 0 32 21 8 33 Foreign Nationals 55 37 41 48 65 41 40 63 60 77 1 These figures include Royal Navy Reserve personnel.

Information on how many of these graduates are still Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for employed within the Royal Navy is not held centrally Defence what assessment he has made of the and could only be provided at disproportionate cost. effectiveness of the Sea Viper missile system. [319727]

Service Personnel and Veterans Agency: Manpower Mr. Quentin Davies: The effectiveness of the Sea Viper weapon system is being assessed through a rigorous trials programme to ensure that all the requirements of Dr. Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for this complex system have been met and any problems Defence how many people the Service Personnel and resolved before it enters service. Veterans Agency employs in each salary band. [319486] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Kevan Jones: The number of staff employed in Defence whether he has made any official visits in the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency in each connection with the new Type 45 destroyers. [319728] salary band for both military and civilian staff, as at 1 February 2010, are shown in the following tables: Mr. Quentin Davies: Since August 2007, the current Military Secretary of State for Defence has made two official NATO Grades Number visits to HMS Daring, the first in the Class of Type 45 Destroyers; these visits were made when he was the then OF6 3 Minister of State for the armed forces. Details of these OF5 6 and all other official visits made by Defence Ministers OF4 9 in respect of Type 45 Destroyers are listed in the following OF3 19 table: OF2 6 OR8 2 Date of OR7 5 visit Defence Minister Type 45 ship OR9 7 2007 Total 57 14 August Right hon. Bob Ainsworth MP, the then HMS Daring Minister of State for the Armed Forces Civilian 1 Broader banded grade Number 2008 SCS 2 29 Right hon. Baroness Taylor of Bolton, the HMS Duncan B1 4 February then Minister of State for Defence Equipment and Support B2 7 4 Right hon. Bob Ainsworth MP, the then HMS Daring C1 37 September Minister of State for the Armed Forces C2 100 17 Quentin Davies MP, Minister of State for HMS Dragon D 346 November Defence Equipment and Support E1 335 E2 123 2009 Skill zone 2 58 28 January Quentin Davies MP, Minister of State for HMS Daring Skill zone 1 3 Defence Equipment and Support Medical advisor2 22 1 July Kevan Jones MP, Minister of State for HMS NHS2 7 Veterans Dauntless Total 1044 20 July Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State for the HMS Daring Armed Forces 1 The figures for civilian staff are a headcount based on their substantive grade. Headcount is a measure of the size of the workforce that counts all staff equally 7 and 8 Quentin Davies MP, Minister of State for HMS Daring regardless of their hours of work. October Defence Equipment and Support 2 Ministry of Defence staff employed on national health service terms and conditions.

Type 45 Destroyers LEADER OF THE HOUSE Written Questions Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what timetable has been set for the delivery of Mr. David Hamilton: To ask the Leader of the House the new Type 45 destroyers; and if he will make a if she will take steps to ensure that all written questions statement. [319725] due for answer on a named day before dissolution of Parliament receive a substantive answer. [320112] Mr. Quentin Davies: The in-service date for HMS Daring, the first in the Class of Type 45 Destroyers, is Barbara Keeley: The clear expectation, as set out in expected to be declared later this year. The remaining the Guide to Parliamentary Work published by my five ships in the Type 45 Programme are expected to office, is that Departments should ensure that Members enter service progressively through to mid-2014. receive a substantive response to their named day question 1091W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1092W on the date specified. However, it may not be possible Letter from Mark Lund, dated 23 February 2010: for questions which are tabled for answer after the last As Chief Executive of the Central Office of Information sitting day of the Session to receive a reply. (COI), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question The full ‘Guide to Parliamentary Work’ can be viewed [318121] asking for information regarding advertising and marketing at: campaigns co-ordinated by COI in 2009-10 and 2010-11. http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/parliamentary-clerk- Figures for campaigns, for the current year, co-ordinated by COI have not yet been finalised. guide.aspx Accurate information for the current financial year will only be published once the annual accounts have been fully audited. Estimates of the cost and number of campaigns are not held CABINET OFFICE by COI but by the commissioning department. Chequers Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr. Hands: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many companies participate in the Central Office what guidance governs the display of fine china Office of Information framework agreement for online at Chequers. [318942] advertising; what the monetary value is of the contracts under the framework agreement; and on what date that Tessa Jowell: Chequers is established under the Chequers agreement was made in its final form. [318132] Estate Acts 1917 and 1958 and is administered by independent trustees. Any guidance governing the Ms Butler: I have asked the chief executive of the presentation of the collection is a matter for the trustees. Central Office of Information to write to the right hon. Member. Community Infrastructure Levy Letter from Mark Lund, dated 23 February 2010: Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Minister for the As Chief Executive of the Central Office of Information (COI), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question Cabinet Office whether the Office for National [318132] asking for information regarding the online adverting Statistics has classified the community infrastructure framework. levy as a form of taxation. [319636] The COI does not have a framework for online advertising, this may however be included on other frameworks that we Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls manage, and a list can be found on our website: within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. www.coi.gov.uk I have asked the authority to reply. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: Government Departments: Marketing As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking whether the Office for National Statistics has classified the Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet community infrastructure levy as a tax (319636). Office with reference to the Central Office of The Office for National Statistics (ONS) has not yet made a Information’s contract procurement notice 2009/S classification decision with regard to the Community Infrastructure 210-302171 for Brand and Brand Identity Framework, Levy. Although the concept of a levy has been around for some whether the proposed £4 million of expenditure is in time, having been part of the Planning Act 2008, ONS does not relation to (a) branding in total or (b) establishing a generally consider draft proposals as part of its classification process. Consequently, ONS has been waiting for the publication framework agreement and approved suppliers. [318348] of the finalised version before formally considering it and making a classification decision. Ms Butler: I have asked the chief executive of the The exact details of how the levy will be implemented have Central Office of Information to write to the right hon. only been published recently, with the Community Infrastructure Member. Levy Regulations 2010 laid before the House of Commons on 10 February 2010. ONS will make a formal classification decision Letter from Mark Lund, dated 23 February 2010: on the levy in due course. As Chief Executive of the Central Office of Information A summary of the UK National Accounts sector and transaction (COI), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question classification process is published on the ONS website at: [318348] asking for information regarding the allocation of expenditure http://www.statistics.gov.uk/about/national_statistics/cop/ in relation to the Brand and Brand Identity Framework. downloads/NAclassification.pdf The £4 million of expenditure relates to the estimated value of a framework agreement over a four year period. Government Departments: Advertising Government Departments: Public Relations Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what advertising and marketing campaigns are being co-ordinated by the Central Office of Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Information in 2009-10; how many such campaigns Office what plans the Central Office of Information that Office plans to co-ordinate in 2010-11; and what has to establish a framework agreement for public estimate she has made of the cost to the public purse of affairs firms as suppliers to Government departments each such campaign. [318121] and agencies. [318251]

Tessa Jowell: I have asked the chief executive of the Tessa Jowell: I have asked the chief executive of the Central Office of Information to write to the hon. Central Office of Information to write to the right hon. Member. Member. 1093W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1094W

Letter from Mark Lund, dated 23 February 2010: Jobseeker’s Allowance: Leeds As Chief Executive of the Central Office of Information (COI), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question Greg Mulholland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet [318251] asking whether COI has plans to establish a framework Office how many and what proportion of jobseeker’s for public affairs firms. allowance claimants in Leeds North West constituency (a) COI has no plans to establish a framework for public affairs at had been claiming the allowance for up to three, this time. (b) between three and six, (c) between six and 12 and (d) between 12 and 24 months in each month since September 2009. [319495] Honours Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet I have asked the authority to reply. Office with reference to the Prime Minister’s speech at Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: Britain’s Everyday Heroes Book Launch of 24 July As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I 2007, how many individuals have received an Award for have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many and what proportion of jobseeker’s allowance claimants Social Technology to date. [318353] in Leeds North West constituency had been claiming the allowance for (a) up to three, (b) between three and six, (c) between six and Angela E. Smith: The UK Catalyst Awards—the 12 and (d) between 12 and 24 months in each month since community awards for social technology—were awarded September 2009. (319495) to businesses that used social media to tackle current The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number social challenges. A total of eight awards were received of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre by businesses in 2008. Plus administrative system. The table attached shows the number of claims of JSA for The event formed part of the work programme of the people resident in Leeds North West parliamentary constituency, Council on Social Action. A full list of award winners and the percentage of all claimants, by duration of the claim in from the 2008 UK Catalyst Awards can be found at: each month since September 2009. National and local area estimates for many labour market http://www.enterpriseuk.org/get_involved/uk_catalyst_awards statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant A copy of the list will be placed in the Libraries of the count are available on the NOMIS website at House. http://www.nomisweb.co.uk

Table 1 Number and proportion of persons claiming jobseeker’s allowance by duration of claim resident in Leeds North West constituency Number of claimants (Thousand) Proportions of claimants (Percentage) Over 13 Over 26 Over 52 Over 13 Over 26 Over 52 Up to 13 weeks up to weeks up to weeks up to Up to 13 weeks up to weeks up to weeks up to weeks 26 weeks 52 weeks 104 weeks Total weeks 26 weeks 52 weeks 104 weeks

September 2009 1,050 440 385 180 2,085 50 21 19 9 October 2009 1,050 440 375 185 2,080 51 21 18 9 November 2009 965 480 365 215 2,055 47 23 18 10 December 2009 930 500 380 225 2,065 45 24 18 11 January 2010 880 540 430 230 2,110 42 26 20 11 Note: 1. Data rounded to nearest five. 2. Age and duration data are only available for computerised claims, which account for 99.7 per cent. of all claims. Source: Jobcentre Plus administrative system

Greg Mulholland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet National and local area estimates for many labour market Office how many young people aged 16 and 17 years statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant old in Leeds North West constituency have claimed count are available on the NOMIS website at: jobseeker’s allowance in each year since 2005. [319505] http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Table 1: Number of persons1 aged 16 and 17 claiming jobseeker’s allowance resident in Leeds North West parliamentary constituency Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. As at January each year Leeds North West I have asked the authority to reply. 2005 5 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: 2006 10 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I 2007 5 have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many young people aged 16 and 17 years in Leeds North 2008 5 West constituency have claimed jobseeker’s allowance in each 2009 5 year since 2005 (319505) 2010 5 The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number 1 Age data is only available for computerised claims, which account for 99.7 per of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre cent. of all claims. Plus administrative system. Table 1 shows the number of people Note: aged 16 and 17 resident in Leeds North West parliamentary Data rounded to nearest 5. constituency, claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) in January Source: 2010 and January of each year since 2005. Jobcentre Plus administrative system 1095W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1096W

Greg Mulholland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: Office what the average length of time was for which As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I claimants aged between 18 and 24 years resident in have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question Leeds North West constituency were in receipt of concerning how many businesses have started up in Leeds North jobseeker’s allowance in (a) each of the last 12 months West constituency since 1997; and how many of those businesses and (b) each of the last five years. [319627] were operating in the latest period for which figures are available [319503]. Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls The ONS release on Business Demography at within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. www.statistics.gov.uk I have asked the authority to reply. gives information on five year survival rates, but these are not Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: available prior to 2003. The table below contains the latest statistics available on survival into 2008 for Leeds North West. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking Enterprise births and survival into 2008 for Leeds North West for what the average length of time was for which claimants aged Number surviving into between 18 and 24 years resident in Leeds North West constituency Births 2008 were in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance in (a) each of the last 12 months and (b) each of the last five years. (319627) 2003 495 155 2004 315 175 The number of people claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) is taken from the Jobcentre Plus administrative system. The length 2005 285 190 of a claim has been defined as the time between the start of an 2006 305 240 individual’s claim and the count date in each reference month. 2007 330 315 Table 1 shows the median length of live claims during the last 12 months up to the latest available period in January 2010, and for January of each of the last 5 years for those people aged 18-24 Pay resident in the Leeds North West Constituency. National and local area estimates for many labour market Mr. Amess: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant Office what the (a) mean, (b) median, (c) 10th count are available on the NOMIS website at: percentile and (d) 90th percentile level of (i) private http://www.nomisweb.co.uk and (ii) public sector salaries in each (A) region and (B) Table 1: Median length of claims of jobseeker’s allowance of persons1 aged industrial category was in each year since 1997. 18-24 resident in Leeds North West constituency [318688] Leeds North West (median)

Years (as at January) Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls 2006 13.5 within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. 2007 11.7 I have asked the authority to reply. 2008 11.2 Letter from Dennis Roberts, dated February 2010: 2009 9.8 The Director General for the Office for National Statistics has 2010 12.1 been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking what the (a) mean, (b) median, (c) 10th percentile and (d) 90th Months percentile levels of (i) private and (ii) public sector salaries were in each of the years since 1997, broken down by (A) region and (B) February 2009 9.0 industrial category. I am replying in his absence. (318688) March 2009 10.1 Annual levels of earnings are estimated from the Annual April 2009 10.7 Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), and are provided for May 2009 11.4 full-time employees on adult rates of pay, who have been in the June 2009 10.4 same job for more than a year. The ASHE, carried out in April July 2009 6.8 each year, is the most comprehensive source of earnings information August 2009 7.3 in the United Kingdom. September 2009 8.4 Tables showing annual salary estimates for full-time employees October 2009 8.2 according to the breakdowns you requested will be placed in the November 2009 9.7 Libraries of the House. The figures are provided for each year December 2009 10.6 from 1999, the earliest period for which annual earnings estimates are available. January 2010 12.1 1 Length of claim data is only available for computerised claims, which account for 99.7 per cent. of all claims. Personal Income: Essex Source: Jobcentre Plus Administrative System New Businesses: Leeds Bob Spink: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what estimate she has made of the average income of a household resident in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point in Greg Mulholland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet the (i) private and (ii) social rented sector in each of the Office how many businesses have started up in Leeds last three years. [318101] North West constituency since 1997; and how many of those businesses were operating in the latest period for which figures are available. [319503] Jim Knight: I have been asked to reply. We use Households Below Average Income data to Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls provide estimates of average incomes. However, the within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. sample size of this survey is not sufficient to provide I have asked the authority to reply. estimates for low-level geographies such as those requested. 1097W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1098W

Personal Income: Leeds Social Leadership Forum

Greg Mulholland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what estimate she has made of the average Office with reference to the Prime Minister’s speech at income of a household in Leeds North West Britain’s Everyday Heroes Book Launch of 24 July constituency in the (a) private and (b) social rented 2007, on what dates the Forum on Social Leadership sector in each of the last three years. [319496] has met since July 2007. [318352]

Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls Angela E. Smith: Chain Reaction, the forum on social within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. leadership, has held two annual conferences. The first I have asked the authority to reply. was held on 17 and 18 November 2008 and the second Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: on 12 November 2009. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I The event formed part of the work programme of the have been asked to reply to your recent question asking what Council on Social Action. For more information about estimate has been made of the average income of a household in both events see: Leeds North West constituency in the (a) private and (b) social www.chain-reaction.org rented sector in each of the last three years. (319496). The information requested is not available. Unemployment: Leeds

Population Greg Mulholland: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the level of unemployment in Leeds North West constituency was in each year since 1997. [319604] Chris Huhne: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the population density was of each region of England in (a) 1980, (b) 1990, (c) 2000 and (d) Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls 2010; and what the expected population density in each within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. region is in (i) 2020, (ii) 2030 and (iii) 2050. [319986] I have asked the authority to reply. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking I have asked the authority to reply. what the level of unemployment in Leeds North West constituency was in each year since 1997. (319604) Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2010: The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles unemployment As Director-General for the Office for National Statistics, I statistics for local areas from the Annual Population Survey and have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question its predecessor the annual Labour Force Survey (LPS) following asking what the population density was of each region of England International Labour Organisation (ILO) definitions. However, in (a) 1980, (b) 1990, (c) 2000 and (d) 2010; and what the expected estimates of unemployment for the Leeds North West constituency population density in each region is in (i) 2020, (ii) 2030 and (iii) are unavailable. 2050. (319986) As an alternative, in Table 1 we have provided the number of The attached table shows population density, calculated for persons claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance for the Leeds North West each mid-year, as requested. Figures for 1980 to the year 2000 are constituency for January 2010 and January of each year since derived using mid-year population estimates and the relevant 1997. land area. Figures for 2010 to 2030 are derived using 2006-based subnational population projections and assume land areas for the National and local area estimates for many labour market UK constituent countries remain constant into the future. Population statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant density figures for 2050 are not available. count are available on the NOMIS website at: Population density for Government office regions in England for selected years http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Persons per sq km Table 1. Number of persons resident in Leeds North West 19801 19901 20001 20102 20202 20302 parliamentary constituency claiming jobseeker’s allowance January each year Number North East 309 301 297 301 312 322 North West 493 484 480 495 520 544 1997 2,167 Yorkshire 319 319 322 346 378 407 1998 1,743 and The 1999 1,505 Humber 2000 1,310 East 246 256 267 291 321 349 Midlands 2001 1,061 West 399 401 405 421 446 468 2002 1,054 Midlands 2003 1,133 East 252 266 281 305 336 364 2004 989 London 4,358 4,325 4,603 4,931 5,303 5,606 2005 917 South East 378 398 419 445 479 512 2006 1,042 South West 183 196 206 223 245 266 2007 1,034 1 Population densities are derived using mid-year population estimates and the relevant land area. 2008 964 2 Population densities are derived using 2006-based sub-national population 2009 1,640 projections, assuming constant land area for the UK constituent countries into 2010 2,111 the future. Source: Source: Office for National Statistics. Jobcentre Plus administrative system 1099W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1100W

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary released a written statement on 23 February West Bank Checkpoints 2010, Official Report, columns 36-38WS, updating the House on the political situation in Sri Lanka and outlining 15. Mrs. Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for recent UK actions. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent A link to the statement can be found here: assessment he has made of progress in the removal of http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/ checkpoints from the west bank. [319397] cmhansrd/cm100223/wmstext/ 100223m0009.htm#column_36WS Mr. Ivan Lewis: The UK welcomes Israel’s easing of some restrictions on movement and access in the west Pakistan bank as a step in the right direction. While recognizing Israel’s legitimate security needs, we shall continue to 19. Mr. David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of urge the Israeli Government to reduce movement and State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what access restrictions further. recent assessment he has made of the importance of the stability of Pakistan for the Government’s policy Tzipi Livni on the region. [319401]

16. Ms Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for David Miliband: A stable, secure Pakistan enjoying Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what good relations with her neighbours is important for UK representations he has received on the law in relation to objectives in South Asia and Afghanistan, particularly universal jurisdiction, with particular reference to the given the ongoing threat to UK forces in Afghanistan case of Tzipi Livni. [319398] emanating from Pakistan’s border areas. The UK and Pakistan, together with other international partners, Mr. Ivan Lewis: I have discussed the law in relation to are working closely together to support the extension of universal jurisdiction, and in particular the case of Government control over the border areas. £50 million Tzipi Livni, with Israeli Ministers. I have also received of the Department for International Development (DFID)’s correspondence from a number of non-governmental £665 million programme for Pakistan is going to support groups. Government officials have also been asked for this stabilisation effort. The UK also strongly supports information on the UK’s position by US and EU renewed dialogue between Pakistan and its neighbours, counterparts. notably India, as an important component of wider regional stability. EU Budget Gaza 17. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent 20. Dr. Iddon: To ask the Secretary of State for assessment he has made of prospects for reform of the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he last EU budget. [319399] discussed the blockade of Gaza with his Israeli counterpart. [319402] Chris Bryant: The December European Council called Mr. Ivan Lewis: The UK is deeply concerned by the upon the European Commission to publish a report in humanitarian situation in Gaza. We continue to press order to provide orientations on priorities during 2010. the Israeli authorities to ease border restrictions further The Government remain committed to reform of the and to permit a greater flow of humanitarian aid, EU budget to make it fit for the 21st century, and will reconstruction materials, trade goods, and people into continue to explore ways of achieving this with like-minded Gaza. This was most recently raised by the Secretary of member states. State for International Development.

24. Mr. Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Iran Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had on reform of the EU budget. 21. Sir Malcolm Rifkind: To ask the Secretary of [319406] State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he has made of the political situation Chris Bryant: Reform of the EU budget was last in Iran; and if he will make a statement. [319403] discussed at the December European Council. Heads of Government agreed conclusions language calling on the David Miliband: Iranian authorities continue to suppress Commission to produce a report in order for the Council legitimate protest, restrict civil liberties and threaten to provide orientations on priorities during 2010. The violence, even execution, to silence dissent. But many Government remain committed to reform of the EU Iranians continue to demand their fundamental rights. budget to make it fit for the 21st century and will We urge the authorities to heed their citizens’ calls, and continue to work with like-minded member states to ensure a better future for all Iranians. achieve it. Falkland Islands Sri Lanka 22. Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for 18. Mr. Gerrard: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with the Argentinian assessment he has made of the political situation in Sri ambassador on sovereignty over the Falkland Islands. Lanka; and if he will make a statement. [319400] [319404] 1101W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1102W

Chris Bryant: There has been no Argentine ambassador However, resolutions secured with strong UK support to the UK since July 2008. I have had no recent discussions in the UN’s human rights bodies make specific reference on the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands with the to human rights violations by the military regime. Argentine embassy. The UK Government have no doubt about their sovereignty over the Islands. Colombia: Politics and Government Pregnant Women: Burkina Faso Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has 23. Harry Cohen: To ask the Secretary of State for received of statements by senior Colombian Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he government officials linking senior members of the has received on discrimination against pregnant political opposition in that country to terrorist and women in Burkina Faso; and if he will make a subversive activity. [319750] statement. [319405] Chris Bryant: We have not picked up on recent reports Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Foreign and Commonwealth of officials linking members of the opposition to terrorist Office has noted Amnesty International’s recent report and subversive activity.But we are aware of such statements on this issue. We are pleased to learn from Amnesty that having been made in the past, which are damaging to President Compaoré of Burkina Faso met them on the credibility of Colombian politics and, more importantly, 12 February 2010 and committed to lifting all financial potentially dangerous to those whom the statements are barriers to emergency obstetric care and access to family directed at. planning. Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda Burma: Arms Trade Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment Dr. Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign he has made of the activities of the Democratic Forces and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of for the Liberation of Rwanda following Rwanda’s 10 February 2010, Official Report, column 978W, on accession to the Commonwealth. [319651] Burma: arms trade, whether his Department has had discussions with the government of (a) Canada, (b) Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Democratic Forces for the Liberation New Zealand and (c) Brazil on a UN-mandated arms of Rwanda (FDLR) continue to pose a destabilising embargo against Burma. [319782] presence in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo as violent attacks on civilians, particularly sexual violence Mr. Ivan Lewis: Following my right hon. Friend the against women, still occur. However efforts against the Prime Minister’s letter to the UN Secretary General FDLR are ongoing, including recent military operations and Security Council members in August 2009, we have in the Kivus which have weakened the command and made broad appeals to international governments to control structures, as have the arrests of key members join the EU and ban the sale of arms to Burma. We of the leadership in Europe. Efforts in 2009 through the have recently focused our diplomatic effort on raising Disarmament, Demobilization, Repatriation, Resettlement the issue of a universal arms embargo with Burma’s and Reintegration programme have led to 1,997 FDLR neighbours. We have also communicated our views to being demobilised, with 1,552 repatriated to Rwanda, the Russian Government, as Russia is a notable supplier three times as many as in 2008. of arms to Burma. We have not yet raised an arms embargo with the Governments of Brazil, New Zealand Departmental Air Travel or Canada. These and many other countries will be covered in a structured global campaign that will be Mr. Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign launched shortly by the Foreign and Commonwealth and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate he has made Office. of the savings in travel costs likely to be made consequent on the use by officials of his Department of Burma: Human Rights economy class tickets for flights of up to five hours. [318613] Dr. Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of Chris Bryant: As part of a review of allowances we 10 February 2010, Official Report, column 979W, on have proposed that all journeys of up to five hours (by Burma: human rights, what discussions he has had in train or air) should be taken in economy/standard class the United Nations Human Rights Council and the (including Eurostar). The Trade Union Side are now United Nations General Assembly on reports of crimes consulting their members about the proposals in the against humanity and war crimes in Burma. [319783] review. We estimate that using economy class for journeys up to five hours would save in the region of £600,000 Mr. Ivan Lewis: In both the Human Rights Council per annum. and UN General Assembly we have consistently raised our serious concern at reports of human rights abuses Diplomatic Service: Manpower in Burma. Our approach reflects the representations we have had from a number of concerned parties who Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for report on situations they believe amount to crimes Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his against humanity and war crimes. Our judgment is that Department has received advice on the permissibility we would not be able to secure support within the UN of making redundant management service officers and Security Council for the actions that would be necessary replacing them in that capacity with locally-engaged to follow up with formal charges on those grounds. staff; and if he will make a statement. [319429] 1103W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1104W

Chris Bryant: To date there have been no compulsory Mr. Ivan Lewis: Our embassy in Paris represented the redundancies as a result of localisation of management UK. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister issued a officer positions. Some management officers have chosen statement welcoming Global Zero’s work towards a to take voluntary early retirement. However no one has safer world and setting out the UK’s commitment to been forced to leave. Our policy is to avoid compulsory pursuing the goal of a world free from nuclear weapons. redundancies wherever possible. In response to concerns At the summit, Global Zero launched their 2010 raised by the trade union side, we sought advice on this ‘Action Plan’ which sets out a timeframed strategy question and we are fully committed to following our towards zero in four phases, including a multilateral legal obligations in any redundancy situation should it Global Zero accord. The UK firmly believes that sustainable arise. global nuclear disarmament can only be achieved through Government Hospitality: Wines a multilateral process, and stands ready to engage in a future broader multilateral process when the conditions are right. The UK is actively working to create the Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for necessary conditions to enable countries to give up their Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the nuclear weapons, verifiably and irreversibly. answer of 9 February 2010, Official Report, column 835W, on Government hospitality: wines, what Scientists proportion of the backlog of data has been cleared since the date of that answer. [320075] Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether the Chris Bryant: Work on the Share Point Users database Government Chief Scientist has provided advice to (a) for the Government Hospitality Cellar is on-going and his Department and (b) the British Indian Ocean is undertaken by one civil servant as part of a much Territory (BIOT) Commissioner on the proposed wider range of duties and priorities. We are working marine protected area in the BIOT. [320087] towards a completion date of July 2010 for the system to be fully updated. Chris Bryant: Marine Resources and Fisheries Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Consultants (MRAG) Ltd. is currently contracted by Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) Administration requests under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to manage the Territory’s fisheries. Professor Beddington his Department has received for information about the stood down as Director of MRAG Ltd. on the Government wine cellar in the last three years. [320093] announcement of his appointment by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 1 October 2007. He has Chris Bryant: Between 2007 and the end of 2009 taken no part in any MRAG activities since that time. Government Hospitality (GH) received 18 requests under Since his appointment he has had no discussions with the Freedom of Information Act 2000 relating to the the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) or any Government Hospitality wine cellar or the GH Advisory other Department on fisheries with which MRAG is Committee for the Purchase of Wine. So far in 2010 involved. Neither has Professor Beddington offered any GH has received five Freedom of Information requests. advice on the proposed Marine Protected Area in BIOT. In responding to the FCO public consultation, the International Atomic Energy Agency company’s Development Director has declared MRAG’s interest in the outcome of the consultation. Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Southern Africa: AIDS Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what matters were discussed in his meeting with the Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency on Mr. Borrow: To ask the Secretary of State for 23 February 2010. [319894] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his own Department’s specific commitments in the Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Government’s AIDS strategy Achieving Universal Secretary met the new Director General of the International Access apply to middle-income countries in Southern Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on 23 February during Africa. [319418] Yukiya Amano’s first official visit to the UK. They discussed the latest developments on the Iranian nuclear Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Achieving Universal Access file and other nuclear issues. strategy does apply to middle-income countries in Southern As a member of the IAEA Board, the UK is fully Africa, although we do not expect to undertake activities supportive of the Agency’s work to ensure the robust in every middle-income African country.We are prioritising implementation of IAEA safeguards agreements in our limited resources to focus our activities in those countries of concern. countries where we can have the biggest impact on specific commitments. Nuclear Disarmament: Conferences For example, our High Commission in Windhoek supports politically and promotes advocacy of UN Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Children’s Fund HIV/AIDS work in Namibia for orphans, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what women and vulnerable children (the Department for representation his Department had at the global zero International Development (DFID) provides annual summit on nuclear disarmament in Paris on 2 to funding of approximately £1 million) and EU funded 4 February; and what evaluation he has made of the HIV/AIDS initiatives. Our High Commission also provided (a) papers discussed and (b) conclusions reached at political support for the Namibian Government’s ’Public the summit. [319667] Service Workspace Policy’ on AIDS and for the US 1105W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1106W

President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief conference Mr. McFadden: Ministers in BIS have frequent hosted by Namibia in June. In South Africa, our discussions within and outside Government about options High Commission has helped DFID to agree the to ensure that there continues to be adequate investment priorities and maximise the impact of their HIV/AIDS to promote economic growth in the period ahead. programme. Cadbury: Fair Trade Initiative Foreign and Commonwealth Office Posts overseas also offer targeted lobbying and political support to DFID in low income countries. Mr. Jamie Reed: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills Uganda: Oil whether he discussed with the purchasers of Cadbury any measures to maintain that company’s commitment Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State to the use of fairly traded cocoa, chocolate and other for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will hold products; and if he will make a statement. [319170] discussions with British oil companies engaged in exploration in Uganda on the environmental effects in Ian Lucas: I have neither met, nor spoken to, the region of such exploration activities. [319428] representatives of Kraft. However, when Irene Rosenfeld, chairman and CEO of Kraft, met my right hon. and Mr. Ivan Lewis: Our high commission in Kampala is noble Friend the Secretary of State on 2 February, she in contact with British companies and other stakeholders confirmed that she expected the company’s commitments engaged in the oil sector in Uganda. Uganda’s oil and to Fair Trade to continue. gas policy and proposed new oil legislation is aimed at Departmental Disabled Staff addressing key priorities including resource management, revenue management and environmental protection. The Mr. Harper: To ask the Minister of State, UK and our international partners will continue to Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how encourage the Government of Uganda to establish a many and what proportion of staff in (a) his comprehensive and transparent framework to ensure Department and (b) the executive agencies for which the responsible exploitation and management of its oil he is responsible are disabled; and what the average resources. salary in (i) his Department and (ii) its executive agencies of (A) full-time disabled staff, (B) full-time non-disabled staff, (C) part-time disabled staff and (D) BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS part-time non-disabled staff is. [317906] Banks Mr. McFadden: Based on management information, within the Department for Business, Innovation and Peter Luff: To ask the Minister of State, Department Skills 7.8 per cent. of staff have declared a disability, for Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions 79.9 per cent. have declared that they do not have a Ministers in his Department have had with (a) the disability and the remaining 12.4 per cent. of staff have Chancellor of the Exchequer, (b) the Governor of the chosen not to respond to the questionnaire. 0.8 per Bank of England, (c) representatives of UK cent. of staff have declared themselves disabled and are businesses, (d) any such bank or similar institution working part time. overseas and (e) the European Commission on the The following tables show the average salaries of merits of establishing a state-owned investment bank; both part-time and full-time by their pay band and and if he will make a statement. [319912] disability status.

Full time staff Percentage of FT Percentage of FT Percentage of FT Grades disabled staff Average salary (£) non disabled staff Average salary (£) non declared staff Average salary (£)

AA—AO 14.8 20,627 80.1 20,874 5.1 19,411 EO—HEO 8.6 28,326 74.8 28,876 16.6 27,208 SEO—G6 6.2 48,341 82.6 47,991 11.1 49,067 SCS 4.5 81.994 84.6 83,574 10.9 95.056 All FT staff 7.8 36.289 79.4 41,396 12.7 39.856

Part time staff Percentage of PT Percentage of PT Average Salary1 Percentage of PT Grades disabled staff Average salary1 (£) non disabled staff (£) non declared staff Average salary1(£)

AA—AO 5.6 20,263 88.9 19,056 5.6 19,411 EO—HEO 8.5 27,016 80.8 27,116 10.8 27.208 SEO—G6 6.2 42.362 83.1 50,500 10.7 49,067 SCS 10.3 70.871 86.2 79,992 3.4 95,056 All PT staff 7.2 37,020 83.4 40,600 9.5 39,856 1 The large differences between the average salaries of part time staff is due to the very small numbers of both those who have declared a disability and those who have not responded to the questionnaire which make up only 0.8 per cent. and 1 per cent. respectively of the Department’s work force.

I have approached the chief executives of the Insolvency Office and the National Measurement Office they will Service, Companies House, the Intellectual Property respond to the Hon. Member directly. 1107W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1108W

Letter from Gareth Jones: Report, column 1117W, on departmental written I am replying on behalf of Companies House to your Parliamentary questions, whether his Department maintains a Question tabled 10 February 2010, UIN 317906 to the Minister of database to monitor the progress of replies to State for Business, Innovation and Skills. parliamentary questions. [318383] The proportion of Companies House staff known to be disabled is 3.1% and the median salary for both non-disabled and disabled Mr. McFadden: Yes. The Department uses the database staff is £18,320. This salary figure applies to both full-time and to monitor performance in answering parliamentary part-time staff. These figures are taken from the Annual Civil questions and will use it to produce published reports to Service Employment Survey, published by the Office for National Parliament in due course. Statistics. Letter from Peter Mason, dated 19 February 2010: Music: Copyright I am responding in respect of the National Measurement Office to your Parliamentary Question, tabled on 10 February Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister of State, 2010, to the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what and Skills asking for details of disabled staff employed by the estimate he has made of the likely effect on tax Department and its agencies. revenues of the abolition of the exemption of charities Information provided by the National Measurement Office from public performance licence requirements. [318350] (then known as the National Weights and Measures Laboratory) is included in the Annual Civil Service Employment Survey Mr. Lammy: The Government have made no assessment (ACSES) statistics published by the Office for National Statistics of the likely effect on tax revenues of the repeal of the on 20 January 2010: statutory exemption from licensing requirements for the http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/cs0110.pdf public performance of recorded and broadcast music Statistics in that Survey are based on self declaration of staff who by some charitable and not-for-profit organisations. wish to be considered disabled. In practice, no employee of the This measure is about providing a suitable legal NMO has currently made such a declaration. Because the statistics framework for the music industry to ensure that the depend on self declaration, no account is taken of members of contribution made by musical performers and producers staff who have medical conditions which have led them to make applications for reasonable adjustments under our equal opportunities can be recognised. It is not a Government fiscal measure or health & safety policies, but have not made such declarations. and therefore, following Better Regulation Executive guidance, it was not necessary to consider any impact Letter from John Alty, dated 16 February 2010: on tax revenues. I am responding in respect of the Intellectual Property Office to your Parliamentary Question tabled 10 February 2010, to the Regional European Offices Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Minister of State, The IPO employs 905 staff of which 20 (2.2%) have declared a Department for Business, Innovation and Skills disability. Of this 20, 17 are full-time and 3 part-time. pursuant to the answer of 10 February 2010, Official Average salary costs are shown below: Report, column 1128W, on regional European offices, (A) Full-time disabled: £28,266.10 whether the Government Offices for the Regions (a) (B) Full-time non-disabled: £30,808.36 contribute to the funding of the regional European (C) Part-time disabled: £17,955.07 offices in Brussels and (b) hold copies of their (D) Part-time non-disabled: £26,337.83 accounts. [319012] Letter from Stephen Speed, dated 26 February 2010: Ms Rosie Winterton: In 2009/10 three Government The Minister of State, Department of Business, Innovation offices for the regions contributed to the funding of and Skills (BIS) has asked me to reply to your question regarding regional European offices in Brussels; GO East, GO how many and what proportion of staff in (a) his Department East Midlands and GO North East. Neither holds and (b) the executive agencies for which he is responsible are copies of the accounts of those regional European disabled; and what the average salary in (i) his Department and (ii) the executive agencies is of (A) full-time disabled staff, (B) offices. full-time non-disabled staff, (C) part-time disabled staff and (D) Science: Expenditure part-time non-disabled staff. st There is a total of 2685 employees as at 1 February 2010. 357 Mr. Touhig: To ask the Minister of State, (13.3%) of these are disabled. There is also a number of employees Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how whose disability status is not known (163). much the Government has spent on promotion of the The table below gives average salary details1. UK’s science base since 1997. [318147] 1 Employees whose disability status is not known have not been included in any of the average salary data. Mr. Lammy: Government spending on promotion of the UK’s broad science base is widely distributed among £ the science-using Departments and a number of agencies Disabled Non-disabled and non-departmental public bodies, such as the research Full-time (a) 25,606.80 (b) 26,206.76 councils. Part-time (c) 23,438.52 (d) 24,901.01 Within BIS alone (and formerly as DIUS and DTI), the Science and Society team spends a focused budget, drawn from the science budget allocation, on a number Departmental Written Questions of key national activities. Budgets for this work have increased from around £1.25 million in 1997/98 to David Simpson: To ask the Minister of State, £17.4 million for the final year (2010/11) of the latest Department for Business, Innovation and Skills comprehensive spending review, reflecting both the sustained pursuant to the answer of 10 February 2010, Official increases to the science budget and the increasing 1109W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1110W importance on public engagement and the relationship Department have been recorded in the last two years. between science and society in the UK. [318995] While BIS leads many Government activities, and is accountable to my right hon. and noble Friend the Mr. Michael Foster: The numbers of recorded thefts Minister of State for Science and Innovation, other in the last two financial years were 10 in 2007-08 and Departments across Government directly promote either eight in 2008-09. the science they fund, or the value of science in delivering Poland: Forestry their own objectives. For example, in January 2008 DCSF announced a £140 million strategy to educate Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for the next generation of scientists and mathematicians, International Development how much of the and provide more STEM teachers. This programme £100 million committed to forestry in Poznan in includes a significant science promotion element. December 2008 has been (a) allocated and (b) spent. [319992]

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Mr. Thomas: The UK announced up to £100 million of funding for forestry at Poznan in 2008. So far we Afghanistan: Opium have allocated £50 million to the Forest Investment Program (FIP), one of the multi-donor Climate Investment Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Funds, of which £12 million has been deposited. The International Development what steps his Department FIP trust fund sub-committee is currently considering is taking to reduce levels of production of opium in expressions of interest from 44 countries and regions, Afghanistan. [318975] before selecting five pilots for funding. The UK is a member of this committee and will play a role in the Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International deliberations. The remainder has been provisionally Development (DFID) is taking the following steps to allocated to the FIP, and will be deposited in the next support licit alternatives to opium production in financial year, subject to good progress. Afghanistan: Contributing £30 million over four years to the Comprehensive Agricultural and Rural Development Facility (CARD-F), a HEALTH national programme designed to increase legal incomes and sustain poppy free districts across Afghanistan. Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse Spending around £5 million in support of Governor Mangal’s Food Zone programme, to help distribute wheat seed, fertiliser Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and appropriate training to almost 40,000 farmers across how many people aged (a) under 18 years and (b) 18 Helmand province. The UK Conflict Fund will also contribute years and over were admitted to hospital with a £3 million to this programme. condition related to alcohol misuse in each year since We are also considering further options to increase productivity 1997-98. [318943] nationwide. Gillian Merron: The information is in the following Departmental Theft table. It is important to note that the figures provided relate to admissions of patients rather than number of Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for patients as a patient can be admitted more than once in International Development how many thefts from his a year.

Number of admissions of patients aged under 18 and 18 and over with an alcohol-related condition

2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Under 18 10,976 12,043 12,982 14,421 14,465 14,501 12,832

18 and over 499,197 557,374 631,203 721,091 784,655 848,763 932,391

Total 510,173 569,417 644,185 735,512 799,120 863,264 945,223

Note: Includes activity in English national health service hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector. Alcohol-related admissions The number of alcohol-related admissions is estimated, based on the methodology developed by the North West Public Health Observatory. Figures for under 16s only include admissions where one or more of the following alcohol-specific conditions were listed: Alcoholic cardiomyopathy (142.6) Alcoholic gastritis (K29.2) Alcoholic liver disease (K70) Alcoholic myopathy (G72.1) Alcoholic polyneuropathy (G62.1) Alcohol-induced pseudo-Cushing’s syndrome (E24.4) Chronic pancreatitis (alcohol induced) (K86.0) Degeneration of nervous system due to alcohol (G31.2) Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of alcohol (F10) Accidental poisoning by and exposure to alcohol (X45) Ethanol poisoning (T51.0) Methanol poisoning (T51.1) 1111W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1112W

Toxic effect of alcohol, unspecified (T51.9) Number of episodes in which the patient had an alcohol-related primary or secondary diagnosis. These figures represent the number of episodes where an alcohol-related diagnosis was recorded in any of the 20 (14 from 2002-03 to 2006-07 and seven prior to 2002-03) primary and secondary diagnosis fields in a Hospital Episode Statistics (HES) record. Each episode is only counted once in each count, even if an alcohol-related diagnosis is recorded in more than one diagnosis field of the record. Ungrossed data Figures have not been adjusted for shortfalls in data (i.e. the data are ungrossed). Finished admission episodes A finished admission episode is the first period of in-patient care under one consultant within one health care provider. Finished admission episodes are counted against the year in which the admission episode finishes. It should be noted that admissions do not represent the number of in-patients, as a person may have more than one admission within the year. Primary diagnosis The primary diagnosis is the first of up to 20 (14 from 2002-03 to 2006-07 and seven prior to 2002-03) diagnosis fields in the HES data set and provides the main reason why the patient was admitted to hospital. Secondary diagnosis As well as the primary diagnosis, there are up to 19 (13 from 2002-03 to 2007-08 and six prior to 2002-03) secondary diagnosis fields in HES that show other diagnoses relevant to the episode of care. Data quality HES are compiled from data sent by more than 300 NHS trusts and primary care trusts in England. Data is also received from a number of independent sector organisations for activity commissioned by the English NHS. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care liaises closely with these organisations to encourage submission of complete and valid data and seeks to minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data via HES processes. While this brings about improvement over time, some shortcomings remain. Assessing growth through time HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. The quality and coverage of the data have improved over time. These improvements in information submitted by the NHS have been particularly marked in the earlier years and need to be borne in mind when analysing time series. Some of the increase in figures for later years (particularly 2006-07 onwards) may be due to the improvement in the coverage of independent sector activity. Changes in NHS practice also need to be borne in mind when analysing time series. For example, a number of procedures may now be undertaken in out-patient settings and may no longer be accounted for in the HES data. This may account for any reductions in activity over time. Assignment of Episodes to Years Years are assigned by the end of the first period of care in a patient’s hospital stay. Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for health and social care

Alcoholic Drinks: Prices Quality Commission additionally charged independent health care organisations a total of £14,000 for repeat Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Health inspections. what recent assessment he has made of the effects of Details of the fees charged to adult social care regulated pricing of alcoholic drinks on levels of alcohol abuse; providers is set out on the Care Quality Commission’s and if he will make a statement. [318896] website at: www.cqc.org.uk/guidanceforprofessionals/registration/ Gillian Merron: In December 2008 the Department socialcare/fees.cfm published an independent review of the effects of alcohol Details of the fees charged to independent health pricing and promotion from the School of Health and care regulated providers is set out on the Care Quality Related Research at the university of Sheffield. The Commission’s website at: review estimated the effects on health, crime and young www.cqc.org.uk/guidanceforprofessionals/registration/ people of a range of options including the impact of independenthealthcareservices/howtoregister.cfm different levels of minimum unit price. For 2009-10, the Care Quality Commission does not A copy of the publication “Independent Review of charge fees for the registration and inspection of NHS the Effects of Alcohol Pricing and Promotion from the bodies. School of Health and Related Research at the University of Sheffield” has already been placed in the Library. Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Health We continue to look at how we can tackle the problems what the average charge levied by the Care Quality caused by cheap alcohol, while respecting the rights of Commission was for inspections of a (a) hospice and responsible consumers and the Government have (b) district hospital in the latest period for which commissioned further research in this area. figures are available. [319911]

Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Care Quality Commission is Care Quality Commission the new integrated regulator for health and adult social care from 1 April 2009. Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Health We have been informed by the Care Quality Commission how much the Care Quality Commission charged that the average annual fee charged for a hospice for the organisations for (a) initial and (b) repeat inspections period 1 April 2009 to 31 January 2010 is £1,629. in England in the last 12 months. [319908] For 2009-10, the Care Quality Commission does not charge fees for the registration and inspection of national Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Care Quality Commission is health service bodies. the new integrated regulator for health and adult social care from 1 April 2009. Care Quality Commission: Dorset Regulated providers of adult social care and independent health care are charged fees by the Care Quality Commission in 2009-10. We have been informed by the Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Care Quality Commission that the total annual fees it how much the Care Quality Commission charged charged organisations from 1 April 2009 to 31 January organisations in Dorset for repeat inspections in the 2010 is £53.3 million. In the same period, the Care last 12 months. [319909] 1113W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1114W

Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Care Quality Commission is The figures do not include recruitment or classified the new integrated regulator for health and adult social advertising costs. Advertising spend is defined as covering care from 1 April 2009. only media spend (inclusive of agency commissions but We have been informed by the Care Quality Commission excluding production costs, Central Office of Information that it made no charges for repeat inspections of commission and VAT). All figures exclude advertising organisations in Dorset from 1 April 2009 to 31 January rebates and audit adjustments and therefore may differ 2010. from Central Office of Information official turnover figures. Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Health The Department evaluates its campaigns using a how much the Care Quality Commission charged combination of robust techniques that help to identify hospices in Dorset for inspections in the last exactly what works. In 2009, Smokefree marketing has 12 months. [319910] driven over 715,000 four-week quits. Modelling has also demonstrated a one-year return on marketing investment Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Care Quality Commission is (ROMI) of an additional £1.20 for every pound of the new integrated regulator for health and adult social public money spent and a three-year return of £3.84 for care from 1 April 2009. every pound spent. The Change4Life campaign has We have been informed by the Care Quality Commission received nearly two million responses and over 400,000 that the total annual fees it charged hospices in Dorset families have signed up. It has been estimated that an from 1 April 2009 to 31 January 2010 was £5,663. additional 10,000 people have been given early access to care as a result of the Department’s stroke (Act FAST) Dementia: Gloucestershire campaign in 2009-10, reducing the threat of death and disability. Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Derriford Hospital what financial support was allocated by Gloucestershire Primary Care Trust for (a) the Mr. Swire: To ask the Secretary of State for Health treatment of and (b) research related to dementia in (1) whether mechanisms are in place at Derriford each of the last five years. [318900] Hospital to ensure that patients who require remedial surgery following full minimally invasive Phil Hope: The information is not available in the oesophagectomy procedures are operated on by the format requested. The Department allocated £150 million same surgeons who carried out the initial surgery; to the national health service over 2009-10 and 2010-11 to transform services for people with dementia. However, [319162] the Department does not break down primary care (2) whether he has made an assessment of the level trust (PCT) revenue allocations by policies, at either the of post-operative care following full minimally invasive national or local level. Such information as is available oesophagectomy procedures undertaken at Derriford about revenue allocations to PCTs in Gloucestershire is Hospital following the transfer of the upper gastro- shown in the following table. intestinal cancer unit from the Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital to Derriford Hospital; [319163] It is for PCTs to decide their priorities for investment locally taking into account both local priorities and the (3) whether each of the trials that was being carried ‘NHS Operating Framework’. out at the Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital prior to the move of the upper gastro-intestinal cancer unit Revenue allocations to PCTs in Gloucestershire from 2004-05 from the Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital to Gloucestershire PCT Allocation (£ million) Derriford Hospital is continuing. [319213] 2004-05 515.9 2005-06 561.9 Mr. Mike O’Brien: These are matters for the local 2006-07 669.7 national health service. I have therefore written to the 2007-08 731.2 chair of the South West Peninsula Cancer Network and 2008-09 771.1 asked him to write to the hon. Member. 2009-10 825.9 Diabetes 2010-11 868.5 Notes: 1. Allocations are not always comparable between years because of changes to Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Health baseline funding. what estimate he has made of the cost to the national 2. Allocations from 2006-07 include primary medical services funding. 3. PCTs were informed of their revenue allocations for 2009-10 and 2010-11 in health service of treating patients with diabetes in the December 2008. last 12 months. [319790] Source: Finance, Planning and Allocations Division, Department of Health Ann Keen: Estimates of national health service Departmental Advertising expenditure on diabetes are available from the programme budgeting returns. The following table shows the estimated Mr. Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health gross level expenditure for diabetes from 2004-05 to how much his Department plans to spend on television 2008-09 in England. These figures include primary care advertisements in 2009-10. [318924] trust, Department of Health, strategic health authority and special health authority expenditure. It should be Phil Hope: The Department’s estimated expenditure noted that these figures do not include prevention on television advertising for the 2009-10 financial year expenditure or general medical services/primary medical is £26,150,885. This is a provisional figure until records services expenditure. This is considerable, but we cannot are fully audited at the end of the financial year. quantify it separately. 1115W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1116W

dataset; and how much he estimates it would cost to Diabetes as a Department of proportion of gross redact personal information from the dataset. [319987] Diabetes Health gross expenditure expenditure (£000) expenditure (£000) (percentage) Gillian Merron: Around 2,800 individual patient records 2004-05 687,402 71,922,179 1.0 are contained within the dataset. To print, sort, redact 2005-06 866,000 80,185,241 1.1 and check the records would incur disproportionate 2006-07 1,043,021 84,193,209 1.2 costs. 2007-08 1,151,183 93,183,426 1.2 2008-09 1,262,066 96,814,987 1.3 Health Services: Milton Keynes Health Centres: Christchurch Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Health how much was spent on NHS healthcare in when he expects his Department to complete the Milton Keynes in each year since 1997. [319006] disposal of its interest in the former health centre at Saxon Square, Christchurch. [320073] Mr. Mike O’Brien: The following table shows the amount spent on health care services by Milton Keynes Mr. Mike O’Brien: Following the decision of the primary care trust from 2002-03 to 2008-09, which are local national health service trust not to utilise the the only years for which information is available by property and the landlord’s decision not to accept a organisation. surrender of the lease, agreement is being finalised with Milton Keynes PCT: Purchase of health care, 2002-03 to 2008-09 the landlord on the extent of repair works to be undertaken £000 in compliance with a previously served repairs notice. Health care Once agreement is reached, the works will be undertaken. Primary Secondary Other Total Consideration is also being given to potential alternative uses for the property before marketing but this requires 2008-09 77,346 210,309 476 288,131 the formal agreement of the landlord to vary the terms 2007-08 72,133 197,874 427 270,434 of the lease and discussions are in hand with the landlord. 2006-07 70,386 174,667 316 245,369 2005-06 62,660 192,761 259 255,680 The availability of the property has for some time 2004-05 56,529 167,612 342 224,483 been included on the Electronic Property Information 2003-04 51,109 145,808 140 197,057 Mapping Service (e-PIMS)—the central database of 2002-03 38,034 140,139 388 178,561 Government civil estate managed by the Office of Source: Audited summarisation schedules of Milton Keynes PCT. Government Commerce. Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Services: Isle of Man Health how many NHS (a) doctors and (b) nurses were employed in Milton Keynes in each year since Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for 1997. [319007] Health pursuant to the answer of 1 February 2010, Official Report, column 56W, on health services: Isle of Ann Keen: The information requested is contained Man, how many individuals have their details on the within the following table.

All doctors and qualified nursing staff in Milton Keynes: as at 1997 to 2008 Numbers (headcount) 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Milton Keynes Primary Care Trust All Doctors1 n/a n/a n/a n/a 176 178 186 191 201 215 228 224 Of which:

Hospital and n/a n/a n/a n/a 51 49 62 62 65 67 75 74 Community Health Services (HCHS) Doctors1 General n/a n/a n/a n/a 125 129 124 129 136 148 153 150 Practitioners (GPs)

Total Qualified n/a n/a n/a n/a 446 471 465 496 535 516 545 506 Nursing Staff Of which:

Qualified n/a n/a n/a 377 383 380 409 448 421 450 451 nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff 1117W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1118W

All doctors and qualified nursing staff in Milton Keynes: as at 1997 to 2008 Numbers (headcount) 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

GP Practice n/a n/a n/a n/a 69 88 85 87 87 95 95 55 nurses

All doctors1 39 39 51 48 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Of which: HCHS doctors1 39 39 51 48 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a GPs n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

Total qualified 357 374 385 365 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Na/ nursing staff Of which: Qualified 357 374 385 365 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff GP practice n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a nurses

Milton Keynes Primary Care Trust All doctors1 147 153 168 169 173 181 205 239 283 275 279 301 Of which: HCHS doctors1 147 153 168 169 173 181 205 239 283 275 279 301 GPs n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

Total qualified 573 606 671 804 818 829 824 1009 875 908 756 832 nursing staff Of which: Qualified 573 606 671 804 818 829 824 1,009 875 908 756 832 nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff GP practice n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a nurses n/a = Not applicable. 1 Data excludes Medical HPCAs, most of which are GPs working part-time in hospitals 1. Data as at 30 September each year 2. Data are shown here by organisations in operation at the time 3. GP Practice data prior to 2001 is not available in the Milton Keynes area due to the regional division of predecessor organisations 4. Data Quality The NHS Information Centre for health and social care seeks to minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data but responsibility for data accuracy lies with the organisations providing the data. Methods are continually being updated to improve data quality where changes impact on figures already published. This is assessed but unless it is significant at national level figures are not changed. Impact at detailed or local level is footnoted in relevant analyses. Source: The NHS Information Centre for health and social care Non-Medical Workforce Census. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care General and Personal Medical Services Statistics The NHS Information Centre for health and social care Medical and Dental Workforce Census

Health Services: Reciprocal Arrangements Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what provisions will govern the exemption from charging of certain categories of UK residents Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for admitted to hospital to receive emergency hospital Health how much (a) the Government paid the Isle of treatment in the Isle of Man following the ending of Man government and (b) the Isle of Man government the reciprocal health agreement between the UK and paid the Government for the cost of emergency the Isle of Man; and if he will make a statement. admission to hospital and treatment under the [319989] reciprocal health agreement in each of the last 10 years for which information is available. [319988] Gillian Merron: The exemptions that apply under the National Heath Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Gillian Merron: Under the current bilateral health Regulations 1989, as amended, apply only to those care agreement, no monies change hands for emergency accessing the national health service. As such, the treatment provided in the United Kingdom, or the Isle exemptions do not extend to United Kingdom nationals of Man. An annual allocation (currently £2.8 million) is accessing other health care systems, including the Isle of provided by the UK Government, to the Isle of Man Man. Accident and emergency treatment will continue Government, for additional elective treatment within to be provided free of charge both in the UK and the the national health service. Isle of Man. 1119W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1120W

Health Visitors: Leeds Phil Hope: Yes. The pre-Budget report announcement of £250 million efficiency savings from reducing variations Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for in spend on residential care is an example of how Health how many health visitors were employed in savings can be made Leeds North West constituency in each year since 1997. either to help meet the cost of providing free personal care at [319511] home for people in the greatest need, or to help meet wider pressures from demographic change. Ann Keen: The information is not available in the format requested. The following table shows the number Hospitals: Gardens of health visitors in the Leeds Primary Care Trust (PCT) area as at 30 September each year. Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what estimate he has made of expenditure on Headcount gardening and landscaping at NHS hospitals in the last 2002 165 five years. [318925] 2003 181 2004 213 Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information requested is not 2005 195 collected centrally.The Department does collect information 2006 175 on grounds maintenance costs, but this is a much broader 2007 166 category. This information relates to the pay and non-pay 2008 158 costs involved in the upkeep and maintenance of the Notes: grounds, gardens and external paths of the organisation 1. Leeds PCT was formed in October 2006 from a complete merger of Leeds site. It includes labour costs for all directly employed West PCT, Leeds North East PCT, East Leeds PCT, South Leeds PCT and Leeds North West PCT. Figures prior to 2006 are an aggregate of these and contract staff. The information for the last five predecessor organisations. It is not possible to map work force figures for these years is provided in the table. organisations prior to the creation of the PCTs in 2002. 2. Data Quality: the Information Centre for health and social care seeks to Grounds and gardens maintenance minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data but responsibility costs (£) for data accuracy lies with the organisations providing the data. Methods are continually being updated to improve data quality where changes impact on 2008-09 30,018,479 figures already published. This is assessed but unless it is significant at national level figures are not changed. Impact at detailed or local level is footnoted in 2007-08 26,812,963 relevant analyses. 2006-07 28,051,758 Source: 2005-06 25,812,801 The Information Centre for health and social care Non-Medical Workforce Census. 2004-05 24,424,117 Hip Replacements The information has been supplied by the national health service and has not been amended centrally. The Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Health accuracy and completeness of the information is the how many hip replacement operations have been responsibility of the provider organisation. cancelled at NHS hospitals in the last 12 months. [318926] Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust Inquiry Mr. Mike O’Brien: The number of cancelled operations for hip replacement is not collected centrally. Mr. Cash: To ask the Secretary of State for Health when he expects to make an assessment of the report of The Department collects data on the number of the inquiry into Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation operations cancelled on the day of admission or day of Trust commissioned by his Department and chaired by operation, for non-clinical reasons, on a quarterly basis. Robert Francis QC; and if he will make a statement. However, these are not broken down to treatment function/ [318981] specialty level. The latest published data can be found at the following web address: Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Mid-Staffordshire NHS www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ Foundation Trust inquiry’s report was published on 24 PublicationsStatistics/DH_112182 February 2010. I refer the hon. Member to the oral Home Care Services statement made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on 24 February 2010, Official Report, columns Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State 309-25. for Health pursuant to the answer of 6 January 2010, Official Report, columns 470-1W, on care homes Midwives: North West finance, whether the efficiency savings are the same as those local authorities are required to find to Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Health contribute towards the cost of providing free personal what his most recent estimate is of the number of care at home for people in the greatest need. [318339] midwives (a) employed and (b) required in (i) Chorley, (ii) Lancashire and (iii) the North West. [318894] Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 6 January 2010, Official Ann Keen: The information is not available in the Report, columns 470-1W, on care homes: finance, format requested. The following table shows the number whether the efficiency savings referred to are those of qualified midwifery staff in the North West strategic which local authorities are required to find to health authority (SHA) area and Lancashire Teaching contribute towards the cost of providing free personal Hospitals NHS foundation trust as at 30 September care at home for people with the highest needs. [318893] 2008. 1121W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1122W

It is the responsibility of the national health service Mr. Mike O’Brien: We are informed by the chairman locally to plan, develop and improve health services of Monitor (the statutory name of which is the Independent according to the health care needs of their local populations Regulator of NHS Foundation Trusts) that in 2008-09 and this includes ensuring the adequate provision of (the latest 12 month period for which audited data is midwives. available) the total income received by Taunton and Somerset NHS Foundation Trust from treating private Organisation Midwifery headcount patients was £1.82 million, which is calculated to 1.04 per cent. against its Private Patient Income Cap of 1.6 per North West SHA area 3,892 cent. Of which: Lancashire Teaching Hospitals NHS foundation 226 trust Mr. Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Notes: Health what payments the NHS has made to (a) 1. September 2008 is the latest available data. September 2009 is due to be NHS-related charities and (b) NHS bodies as a result published at the end of March. 2. Data Quality: The Information Centre for health and social care seeks to of the Icelandic banking collapse. [319538] minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data but responsibility for data accuracy lies with the organisations providing the data. Methods are continually being updated to improve data quality where changes impact on Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Department has been figures already published. This is assessed but unless it is significant at national notified of two instances where payments were made by level figures are not changed. Impact at detailed or local level is footnoted in national health service bodies to support NHS organisations relevant analyses. Source: or related charities affected by the Icelandic banking The Information Centre for health and social care Non-Medical Workforce collapse. Census. Firstly, the North West Strategic Health Authority Musgrove Park Hospital Taunton forewent £6.5 million of its own capital funding in order to provide support to the Christie Hospitals NHS Mr. Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Secretary of State Foundation Trust cancer services development programme, for Health (1) what his most recent estimate is of the after the trust lost a significant proportion of its investment cost of the new surgical unit at Musgrove Park funds following the collapse of the Icelandic bank, Hospital, Taunton; and what such estimate he had Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander. made in February 2009; [318935] Secondly, the nine primary care trusts from the South (2) what the cost to the public purse was of building Central Strategic Health Authority have made a total of work carried out at Musgrove Park Hospital in the last £1.5 million available to the Naomi House Children’s five years. [318936] Hospice Charity after it also lost deposits held in Kaupthing Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Department holds information Singer and Friedlander. on the major capital investment schemes that have been The Department is not aware of any other similar completed at Taunton and Somerset NHS Foundation instances where payments have been made. Trust in the last five years. The new cancer centre at Musgrove Park hospital NHS: Manpower was completed in July 2009 with a capital value of £21 million. Minor works were completed in April 2008 Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Secretary of State with a capital value of £1.2 million. The cardio catheter for Health how many people are employed by primary laboratory was completed in August 2007 with a capital care trusts in England in the direct provision of health value of £6.6 million. services to patients. [318937] Details of proposals being developed by Trusts such as that for the new surgical unit are not held by the Department. This is a matter for Taunton and Somerset Ann Keen: A table showing the number of staff by NHS Foundation Trust. We have written to Rosalinde organisation type, including primary care trusts has Wyke, Chair of Taunton and Somerset NHS Foundation been placed in the Library. Trust, informing her of the hon. Member’s inquiry. She will reply shortly and a copy of the letter will be placed NHS: Parking in the Library. NHS: Construction Mr. Syms: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how much was raised from (a) parking charges and Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (b) parking fines at car parks operated by NHS bodies from which planned NHS building projects his in each of the last 12 months. [319032] Department has withdrawn support in the last 12 months. [319070] Mr. Mike O’Brien: These data are not collected centrally. The management of national health service car parking Mr. Mike O’Brien: None. is the responsibility of the NHS organisations locally. NHS: Finance This includes the use of parking fines if the NHS consider it appropriate to reduce congestion and deter Mr. Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Secretary of State misuse of the facilities provided. for Health if he will make an estimate of the revenue A consultation exercise on the provision of free car which accrued to the NHS from the treatment of parking to NHS inpatient visitors and outpatients concluded private patients at Musgrove Park Hospital, Taunton in on the 23 February 2010. The report analysing the the last 12 months. [319417] responses will be published in due course. 1123W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1124W

NHS: Public Transport Notes: In the context of this answer the term “Nurse in the NHS” has Lynne Featherstone: To ask the Secretary of State for been interpreted as a qualified nurse. Health what discussions he has had with the Secretary Average earnings figure.* of State for Transport on the effectiveness of public Source: transport networks serving hospitals and GP surgeries; * NHS Information Centre NHS Staff Earnings July-September and if he will make a statement. [319333] 2009.

Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Department links with the Nurses: Schools Department for Transport with regard to transport planning and the provision of supporting guidance for the national health service. Guidance document Mr. Lansley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health ‘Health Technical Memorandum 07-03 Transport how many (a) qualified and (b) other school nurses management and car parking’ provides advice about are employed in each (i) region and (ii) primary care effective transport management, emphasising the trust; and how many such nurses were employed in importance of collaboration with local authorities and each such area in 2004. [318941] public transport coordinators on a community strategic networking basis. A copy of the document has been Ann Keen: A table containing the number of school placed in the Library. nurses employed in each strategic health authority and Effective public transport networks to serve health primary care trust in 2004 and 2008 has been placed in care facilities, including general practitioner practices, the Library. Data for 2009 will be available when the are achieved through local discussion between annual workforce census is published on 25 March transport providers, local authorities and local health 2010. care organisations. The effective provision, which is determined at local level, takes into account the availability Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Health of public transport networks in the required area. In how many and what proportion of (a) secondary addition, this may be achieved through the town planning schools and (b) associated primary school clusters are system. served by a full-time school nurse. [319539] The Department has recently been engaged with Department for Transport to produce the ‘Active Travel Ann Keen: The information requested is not collected Strategy’ (February 2010), which advocates that healthy centrally. activity such as walking and cycling should also be Our child health strategy “Healthy Lives, Brighter positive options to access health care facilities. A copy Futures” (published February 2009) recognised the of the document has been placed in the Library. importance of school health services. In particular, that school health teams provide a key link between education NHS: Sight Impaired and health services, providing guidance and support on a range of health-related issues. Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health The Healthy Child Programme, published in October whether the NHS Summary Care Record system can 2009, will be of further assistance in determining the include information on the preferred alternative format composition of school health teams, which will vary for communication with blind or partially-sighted from locality to locality according to local needs and patients. [319065] service configurations. In most cases, they will have school nurses at their core, working with other professionals Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information in the summary and support staff. The latest available figures for the care record (SCR) of patients who choose to have a number of national health service employed nurses SCR is initially extracted from the general practitioner’s working in a school environment show an increase of record. Information can then be added and updated by over 50 per cent., from 2,409 in 2004 to 3,643 nurses in the treating clinician, with the patient’s express permission, 2008. including any information which the clinician or the patient regard as relevant to management of the patient’s Pyrazinamide and Streptomycin health. There is a section in the SCR for demographic information which provides for patients’ communication Julie Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for preferences to be recorded, for example, in the case of Health whether there are plans to license (a) blind or partially-sighted patients, large print, Braille or pyrazinamide and (b) streptomycin for use in the UK. audio. [318139]

Nurses: Pay Mr. Mike O’Brien: The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) granted a marketing Mrs. Humble: To ask the Secretary of State for authorisation, to Merck Sharp and Dohme, for a product Health what the average salary of a nurse in the NHS containing pyrazinamide alone. It is indicated for the was in the latest year for which information is available. treatment of patients with active tuberculosis. [319536] However, the new owners of the product, Genus Pharmaceuticals Ltd., informed the MHRA in 2007 Ann Keen: The average salary for a nurse in the that they were not currently marketing this product in national health service in 2009 was £33,300. the United Kingdom. 1125W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1126W

There are no pending applications for other products per head for each PCT in 2006. They have therefore not containing pyrazinamide alone indicated for treatment been included in the response. of patients with tuberculosis. The MHRA granted a marketing authorisation, to West Dorset General Hospitals Trust UCB Pharma Ltd., for a product containing streptomycin sulphate alone. This product is indicated for the treatment Mr. Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Health of patients with tuberculosis. (1) what steps he is taking to ensure that West Dorset This product is supplied on a named patient basis in General Hospitals Trust (a) improves its financial the UK. performance and (b) balances its budget; [320072] There are no pending applications for other products (2) what discussions he had with the West Dorset containing streptomycin alone indicated for the treatment General Hospitals Trust on his recent visit to of patients with tuberculosis. Dorchester Hospital on the funding of redundancies. Schizophrenia: Drugs [320074] Andy Burnham: I met with governors of the trust to Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health hear first hand about its financial difficulties. The trust what assessment has been undertaken of the National is working closely with the Department, the strategic Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence Guideline health authority and Monitor to develop a robust plan on Schizophrenia, updated in March 2009, in respect of for a sustainable financial recovery. its compliance with (a) human rights and (b) mental capacity legislation relating to choice on whether to take medication. [319164]

Phil Hope: We have made no such assessment. The COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence is an independent body and is responsible for ensuring Affordable Housing that its guidance is compliant with relevant legislation. Supranuclear Palsy Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the (a) Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health name, (b) location and (c) score was of each of the (1) how many (a) males and (b) females in each age 136 housing projects giving funding under round one group in each area have been (i) diagnosed with and (ii) of the Kickstart Building for Life. [318728] treated for progressive supranuclear palsy in each of the last five years; [319759] John Healey: The names and locations of successful (2) whether he has made an estimate of the number round one Kickstart schemes are available on HCA’s of (a) males and (b) females in each age group in each website: area diagnosed with progressive supranuclear palsy http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/public/documents/ who died in each of the last five years. [319761] kickstart-schemes- approve%20261109%20projects%20by%20region.pdf Ann Keen: Information on the number of people HCA and CABE will produce detailed reports on all diagnosed with progressive supranuclear palsy is not aspects of the delivery of Kickstart rounds one and collected centrally. two, including design, following the conclusion of the round two assessment process. These reports will include We have made no estimate of the number of people details of the design assessments undertaken on each dying from progressive supranuclear palsy. scheme. Tranquillisers and Antidepressants Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Health for Communities and Local Government how many how many (a) tranquillisers and (b) anti-depressants homes have been sold to first-time buyers under the were prescribed (i) in total and (ii) per head in each First Time Buyers Initiative since its inception. [319273] primary care trust in England in each year since 2006; and what the net ingredient cost (A) in total and (B) Mr. Ian Austin: Provisional estimates are that there per head was in each trust in each such year. [319334] were 2,350 homes sold to first-time buyers under the First Time Buyers Initiative since its inception to Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information requested has been September 2009. placed in the Library. Tranquillisers are defined as all those items appearing Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State in paragraph 4.1.2 ‘Anxiolytics’ of the British National for Communities and Local Government how many Formulary (BNF) and anti-depressants defined as those sales there have been under the Rent to Homebuy items appearing in section 4.3 ‘Antidepressant drugs’ of scheme since its inception. [319275] the BNF. In October 2006, there was a reorganisation of primary John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I care trusts (PCTs) and the 303 PCTs became 152 with gave the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant some being abolished, others continuing and new ones Shapps) on 22 February 2010, Official Report, being created. It is therefore not possible to give figures column 265W. 1127W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1128W

Affordable Housing: Finance Allocation (£ million) Sub-product Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for type Region 2008-11 2009-10 Communities and Local Government what allocations Yorkshire and the 13.10 4.84 have been made to each region by the Homes and Humber Communities Agency under the (a) HomeBuy Direct, Total 397.11 166.04 (b) New Build HomeBuy, (c) Open Market HomeBuy, (d) First Time Buyer’s Initiative, (e) Social (d) First Time Eastern 26.85 0.00 Homebuy and (f) Rent to HomeBuy schemes for (i) Buyer’s 2009-10 and (ii) 2008-11. [318720] Initiative East Midlands 11.49 0.00 John Healey: The following table shows allocations London 75.39 0.00 made through the Homes and Communities Agency for North East 9.20 0.00 2009-10 and 2008-11 both to the end of January 2010 North West 27.70 0.00 by region for HomeBuy Direct; New Build HomeBuy; Open Market HomeBuy; First Time Buyer’s Initiative; South East 82.86 0.00 Social HomeBuy and Rent to HomeBuy. The allocations South West 36.08 0.00 shown are in respect of those made each year for West Midlands 18.49 0.00 2008-09 and 2009-10 to end of January 2010 respectively. Yorkshire and the 9.99 0.00 Allocations for 2010-11 will not be made until the next Humber financial year. The 2009-10 allocations are included in Total 298.04 0.00 the overall 2008-11 figures. (e) Social Eastern 1.16 0.00 Allocation (£ million) Homebuy Sub-product East Midlands 0.17 0.00 type Region 2008-11 2009-10 London 8.77 0.11 (a) HomeBuy Eastern 55.60 55.60 North East 0.51 0.00 Direct North West 1.28 0.02 East Midlands 35.66 35.66 South East 1.29 0.00 London 20.00 20.00 South West 0.90 0.01 North East 33.13 33.13 West Midlands 0.83 0.01 North West 50.14 50.14 Yorkshire and the 0.30 0.05 South East 53.54 53.54 Humber South West 51.37 51.37 Total 15.22 0.19 West Midlands 42.69 42.69

Yorkshire and the 45.62 45.62 (f) Rent to Eastern 27.64 5.21 Humber HomeBuy Total 387.75 387.75 East Midlands 21.68 7.23 London 176.31 84.98 (b) New Build Eastern 33.79 10.21 North East 1.74 0.75 HomeBuy North West 23.31 7.93 East Midlands 21.15 2.43 South East 13.19 3.96 London 302.78 128.74 South West 22.24 14.57 North East 5.85 1.08 West Midlands 10.58 3.98 North West 47.72 2.85 Yorkshire and the 16.95 10.63 South East 76.75 24.21 Humber South West 38.54 19.51 Total 313.63 139.24 West Midlands 36.24 6.48 Yorkshire and the 21.08 3.22 Humber Total 583.91 198.72 Affordable Housing: Newcastle upon Tyne

(c) Open Eastern 67.18 30.71 Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Market HomeBuy Communities and Local Government (1) which 33 sites East Midlands 10.57 2.50 were presented for consideration to the Homes and Community Agency as sites for new and affordable London 123.49 53.08 housing development by Newcastle upon Tyne City North East 1.07 0.41 Council; [318824] North West 8.86 2.38 (2) how much funding has been provided to each of South East 116.24 51.21 the projects in Newcastle upon Tyne supported by the South West 38.22 13.80 (a) Homes and Communities Agency and (b) West Midlands 18.40 7.10 National Affordable Homes Programme in the last 12 months. [318826] 1129W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1130W

John Healey: It is not clear which 33 sites are referred Ms Rosie Winterton: I refer the hon. Member to the to in the question and therefore we are unable to provide answer I gave her on 10 February, Official Report, this information. column 1027W,which details funding for these programmes Investment by the Homes and Communities Agency by each local authority in London in Newcastle-upon-Tyne in the 12 months to 31 December 2009 broken down by programme is as follows: Community Infrastructure Levy Spend for 12 months to 31 December Programme 2009 (£) Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State National Affordable Housing 6,320,000 for Communities and Local Government whether local Programme authorities will be able to negotiate flexible Property and Regeneration 288,835 Community Infrastructure Levy rates on a site-by-site Places for change 426,940 basis to assist particular regeneration schemes. [319138] Housing Market Renewal Grant1 44,828,347 Total 51,844,122 Mr. Ian Austin: CIL Regulations provide that charging 1 This is spend for the Newcastle Gateshead Housing Market Renewal Pathfinder. It has not been possible to disaggregate the spend between the two schedules may include differential rates where they can areas. In addition, £48.6 million Decent Homes ALMO funding has been be justified either on the basis of the economic viability allocated to Newcastle-Upon-Tyne for 2009-10 financial year. This funding, of development in different parts of the authority’s while not direct Homes and Communities Agency funding, is managed and monitored by the Homes and Communities Agency on behalf of Ministers. area or by reference to the economic viability of different types of development within their area. Association of Home Information Pack Providers: As an additional measure, the CIL regulations also Finance provide for an exceptional cases procedure, through which (subject to certain conditions) individual Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State developments could apply for a reduced CIL liability for Communities and Local Government how much his where its payment would render the development unviable. Department has provided (a) directly and (b) by It will be for charging authorities to decide whether to indirect means to the Association of Home permit such a procedure in their area and each request Information Pack Providers since that body’s will be determined on a case-by-case basis. inception. [319280] Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Mr. Ian Austin: The Department has not provided for Communities and Local Government whether the any financial assistance to the Association of Home Community Infrastructure Levy will be optional for Information Pack Providers, either directly or indirectly. local planning authorities. [319199]

Bullying: Office of the Deputy Prime Minister Mr. Ian Austin: The Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) is provided for by sections 205 to 225 of the Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Planning Act 2008. Section 206(1) of this Act states for Communities and Local Government how many that “a charging authority may charge CIL in respect formal complaints of (a) bullying and (b) harassment of development of land in its area”. As potential were submitted by staff of the Office of the Deputy charging authorities, local planning authorities will Prime Minister during the period of its existence as a therefore be able to choose whether they decide to charge CIL in their area or not, to meet local infrastructure Government department. [319227] needs. Barbara Follett: According to the information available to us, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister received 13 formal complaints of bullying and harassment from Council Housing: Finance its staff during the period of the Department’s existence. Bullying and harassment were classified as one issue by Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for that Department. Communities and Local Government (1) how much was allocated to the local authority new build fund Community Development: Roehampton from the (a) Budget 2009 announcements and (b) Housing Pledge; [318718] Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) how much was allocated to the Kickstart Communities and Local Government how much Housing Delivery programme from the (a) funding was granted under the (a) Working programmes announced in Budget 2009 and (b) Neighbourhoods Fund, (b) Neighbourhood Renewal Housing Pledge. [318722] Fund, (c) Deprived Area Fund, (d) Local Enterprise Growth Initiative, (e) New Deal for Communities, (f) John Healey: The local authority new build, and the Neighbourhood Management Pathfinders, (g) New Kickstart Housing Delivery programme are programmes Communities Fund, (h) European Regional announced as part of the housing stimulus package. Development Fund, (i) Inspiring Communities Grant, Funding levels were announced at Budget 2009 and in (j) Connecting Communities, (k) Single Regeneration the Housing Pledge, part of the Prime Minister’s Building Budget, (l) Land and Property Programme and (m) Britain’s Future announcement. The budgets for each other regeneration programmes to Roehampton ward programme are published in the Homes and Communities in each year since 2000. [318608] Agency (HCA) corporate plan 2009-10-2010-11. 1131W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1132W

Council Housing: Property Transfer Mr. Ian Austin [holding answer 26 February 2010]: The Decent Homes standard does not include any Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for specification for the thermal efficiency of windows a Communities and Local Government how many landlord may decide to fit as part of their local decent homes from local authority housing stock in Castle homes programme. The standard is a minimum standard Point were disposed of in each year since 1997. that homes must not fall below not a standard that [318084] work should be completed to. Mr. Ian Austin: Information on disposals of local John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for authority stock can be estimated from information on Communities and Local Government who is right to buy, other local authority sales, large-scale responsible for inspecting works conducted on council voluntary transfers and small scale transfers to registered housing stock to ensure compliance with the decent social landlords, and demolitions. homes standard; and what mechanisms exist for Information on all sales of local authority stock appeals from residents where works are determined not (including large-scale voluntary transfers and small scale to have reached the required standard. [318956] transfers to registered social landlords, right-to-buy sales and other local authority sales) is collected from Mr. Ian Austin [holding answer 26 February 2010]: A local authorities on the Quarterly Housing Monitoring local authority is responsible for ensuring that their (PIB) return. This information is published to local social housing stock does not fall below the Decent authority district level on the Communities and Local Homes standard and the works they do comply with the Government website in table 648: standard. If a council tenant considers that their home http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/xls/ falls below the standard they should make a formal 1319863.xls complaint to the local authority. If, after this process, Information on local authority demolitions is reported they consider the local authority has treated them unfairly by local authorities, for the financial year, on the Business then they may make a complaint to the local government Plan Statistical Appendix (BPSA) return. BPSA data ombudsman. returns since 2001-02 are available at: Counsellors: Allowances http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/localauthorityhousing/ Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State dataforms/ for Communities and Local Government how much all Council Housing: Standards local authorities spent on allowances and expenses for counsellors in each year since 1997 for which figures John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for are available. [319263] Communities and Local Government if he will issue guidance to local authorities on (a) the fitting of Ms Rosie Winterton: We do not collect or report on individual thermostats for radiators under the Decent allowances paid to local authority members, which are Homes Programme and (b) individual billing of matters for each council to decide, having regard to the heating for tenants in council housing served by recommendations of their independent remuneration communal heating systems. [318953] panel. Councils are accountable for their decisions on allowances to their electorate and are required to make Mr. Ian Austin [holding answer 26 February 2010]: publicly available each year a statement of the amount The Department will shortly be publishing, jointly with of allowances paid to each member. the Department for Energy and Climate Change, the Household Energy Management Strategy setting out Departmental Meetings the Government’s proposals to improve the energy efficiency of our housing stock to reduce carbon emissions. This Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State will be supported by a range of guidance on which we for Communities and Local Government what will be consulting in due course. meetings (a) Ministers and (b) special advisers in his Department have had with representatives of (i) the John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Association of Home Information Pack Providers, (ii) Communities and Local Government what recent Luther Pendragon and (iii) Quintus Public Affairs in discussions he has had with local authorities on costs the last 12 months. [319281] arising from the replacement of communal heating systems in council housing stock dating from the 1980s. Mr. Ian Austin: I met with representatives from the [318954] Association of Home Information Pack Providers (AHIPP) on 25 November 2009. AHIPP were also represented at Mr. Ian Austin [holding answer 26 February 2010]: a meeting of home buying and selling stakeholders that There have been no policy discussions between local I chaired on 15 December 2009. I am not aware of any authorities and the Department for Communities and meetings with Luther Pendragon or Quintus during the Local Government regarding the costs involved in replacing last 12 months. communal heating systems. Disadvantaged: Roehampton John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what guidance Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for his Department has issued to local authorities on the Communities and Local Government what the level thermal efficiency of windows fitted during works was of each indicator of deprivation in Roehampton funded through the Decent Homes Programme. ward as measured by the Index of Multiple [318955] Deprivation in each year since 2000. [318607] 1133W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1134W

Ms Rosie Winterton: The score and rank in each Mr. Ian Austin: The Government’s online service for domain for the Roehampton ward are provided in the planning, the planning portal, includes advice and guidance table where a rank of one would represent the most on how to implement the new planning regulations deprived ward and a rank of 8,414 would represent the which allow surfacing of driveways with permeable least deprived ward. paving materials. Similar advice together with the regulations is also on the departmental website. Ultimately it is for Roehampton Ward local authorities to encourage householders to make use of permeable materials, especially where there are Index of Multiple Deprivation 40.05 Score particular risks of surface water run off leading to Rank of Index of Multiple 1,116 flooding. Local authorities are also responsible for Deprivation enforcement where the new regulations are not observed. Income Domain Score 34.61 Empty Dwelling Management Orders Rank of Income Domain 897 Employment Domain Score 17.49 Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Rank of Employment 1,123 for Communities and Local Government if he will Domain publish a copy of the assessment undertaken for the Health Domain Score .89 Housing Act 2004 on whether the Act’s provisions on Rank of Health Domain 1,431 empty dwelling management orders were compatible Education Domain Score .56 with the right to property in the European Convention Rank of Education Domain 2,203 on Human Rights. [319043] Housing Domain Score 1.33 Rank of Housing Domain 641 Mr. Ian Austin: The Housing Act 2004 is fully compatible Access Domain Score -.59 with the European Convention on Human Rights as Rank of Access Domain 6,312 stated by Lord Rooker when introducing the provisions Child Poverty Index Score 66.74 during the passage of the Bill. Rank of Child Poverty Index 206 Energy Performance Certificates

David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal Communities and Local Government how many actions for non-compliance with energy performance Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State certificates had been issued to landlords in the public for Communities and Local Government pursuant to sector by training standards officers on the latest date the answer of 29 January 2010, Official Report, column for which figures are available. [319482] 1135W, on the Audit Commission: internet, what timetable has been set for publishing online the names Mr. Ian Austin: No information is collected centrally of those councils which operate fortnightly refuse about the number of penalty notices that have been collections; and if he will request the Audit issued by trading standards officers for non-compliance Commission to undertake a statistical analysis of the with the requirements of the Energy Performance of dataset in respect of the relationship between public Buildings (Certificates and Inspections) (England and satisfaction with waste collection services and the Wales) Regulations 2007 (S.I. 2007/991). frequency of refuse collection services. [319125] David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for Ms Rosie Winterton: This is an operational matter for Communities and Local Government how many the Audit Commission and I will ask the Chief Executive display energy certificates for public buildings were of the Audit Commission to write to the hon. Member recorded with the Landmark Agency in (a) 2008 and direct. (b) 2009. [319771] Letter from Steve Bundred, dated 2 March 2010: Mr. Ian Austin: The number of display energy certificates Information has now been received from DEFRA on the (DEC) for public buildings recorded on the DEC register frequency of household waste collection. The Commission is operated by Landmark Information Group Ltd in (a) already undertaking a statistical analysis of this data and comparing 2008 is 12,832; and (b) 2009 is 27,379. it with the published information included with the place survey on satisfaction with waste collection. Once the analysis has been Exeter and Devon (Structural Changes) Order 2010 completed for every district in England the information will be made publicly available on the Oneplace website: Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State http://oneplace.direct.gov.uk/Pages/default.aspx for Communities and Local Government with A copy of this letter will be placed in Hansard. reference to page 26 of the Explanatory Memorandum to the Exeter and Devon (Structural Changes) Driveways: Planning Permission Order 2010, (1) for what reason the 600 performance items have not been incorporated into the National Mr. Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for Indicator Set; [319308] Communities and Local Government what steps he has (2) what each of the 600 performance items taken to expedite the implementation of new planning requested by the Government and inspectorates is; and regulations to allow the resurfacing of driveways with what each of the 200 indicators referred to in his permeable paving materials without the requirement Department’s press release of 20 January 2010 is. for planning permission. [318502] [319309] 1135W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1136W

Ms Rosie Winterton: The reference to 600 performance Mr. Malik: The Office of the Chief Fire and Rescue items is from a research document “Mapping the Local Adviser, Firebuy and the Fire Service College have no Government Performance Landscape.” The research record of any fire and rescue authorities, other than was commissioned by DCLG, carried out by London, which have entered into contracts with third PricewaterhouseCoopers and published in July 2006. parties to provide fire cover during industrial action. We do not hold the data which underpinned the research. Floods: Gardens The findings of the research is available at: http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/localgovernment/ pdf/151585.pdf Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State The 2006 Local Government White Paper “Strong for Communities and Local Government with Official Report and Prosperous Communities” committed to establishing reference to the answer of 20 July 2009, , a new local performance framework to replace the column 812W, on floods: gardens, if he will place in the performance landscape of the time and streamline the Library a copy of the research report on permeable separate performance arrangements at the local level. and impermeable surfacing. [319316] This new local performance framework was introduced from April 2008. Mr. Ian Austin: The research report ‘Understanding permeable and impermeable surfaces’ was published on The press release referring to the National Indicator 14 September 2009. It can be accessed on the Department’s Set, is one element of the new local performance framework. website at: The 2006 Local Government White Paper “Strong and http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/ Prosperous Communities” committed to establishing a planningandbuilding/pdf/permeablesufacesreport.pdf single set of indicators of around 200 indicators measuring national priority outcomes delivered by local authorities I have arranged for a copy of the report to be placed working alone or in partnership. The National Indicator in the Library of the House. Set was introduced from April 2008 and currently contains Government Office for London: Expenditure 188 indicators. Further detail on the National Indicator Set is available at: Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State http://www.audit-commission.gov.uk/localgov/audit/nis/ for Communities and Local Government pursuant to pages/default.aspx the answer of 5 February 2010, Official Report, column 634W, on Government Offices for the Regions: Fire Services: Industrial Disputes procurement, how much the Government Office for London spent on (a) Digby Trout Restaurants, (b) Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Marks and Spencer and (c) The Peace Alliance; and (i) for Communities and Local Government whether any on what dates and (ii) for what purpose that fire authorities beside London have entered into expenditure was incurred. [319366] contracts to provide fire cover in the event of industrial action according to records held by (a) the Chief Fire Ms Rosie Winterton: Details of the Government Office Adviser, (b) Firebuy and (c) the Fire Service College. for London’s procurement are below. All costs relate to [319297] 2008-09.

Company Invoice date Purpose of Expenditure Cost (£)

Digby Trout Restaurants 3 July 2008 Conference refreshments 1,274.88 Marks and Spencer (Lunch to Go) April 2008 to March 2009 Refreshments for external meetings 882.29 The Peace Alliance 18 March 2008 Support the charitable London Peace Awards 500.00 Total 2,657.17

Government Office for the East of England: Government Office for the South West: Expenditure Expenditure Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the answer of 5 February 2010, Official Report, column the answer of 5 February 2010, Official Report, column 634W, on Government Offices for the Regions: 634W, on Government Offices for the Regions: procurement, how much the Government Office for the procurement, how much the Government Office for the East of England paid to the Cambridge Hog Roast South West spent on Lyngford House in 2008-09; on Company; on what dates; and for what purpose. what dates the venue was hired; for what purposes the [319129] venue was hired; and how many officials attended on Ms Rosie Winterton: GO-East paid £920 to the each occasion. [319329] Cambridge Hog Roast Company to supply catering at an event involving all staff at the Government office, held at the Cass Centre in Cambridge on the afternoon Ms Rosie Winterton: The Government office for the of 9 July 2008. Reflecting the changing role of the south-west spent £816.50 on Lyngford House in 2008-09 organisation, the event was held to give staff the opportunity for development sessions for 11 senior (Grade 6) staff. to learn more about each other’s work and share examples Sessions took place on 19 September 2008 and 12usb of their achievements. January 2009. 1137W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1138W

Government Offices for the Regions: Expenditure Media monitoring providers for Government Offices in the last five years GO Year Provider Costs (£)

Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State GO East 2005-06 Records archived and 0 for Communities and Local Government how much unavailable programme expenditure was directed through each 2006-07 Central Office of 16,500 Government Office in the last year for which figures are Information (COI) 2007-08 TNS Media Monitoring 13,000 available. [319219] Services 2008-09 TNS Media Monitoring — Ms Rosie Winterton: I refer the hon. Member to the Services2 answer I gave to the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) on 23 February 2010, Official GO North 2005-06 COI 5,499 Report, columns 485-86W. East 2006-07 COI 13,000 Government Offices for the Regions: Finance 2007-08 COI 13,000 2008-09 TNS Media Monitoring — 2 Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Services for Communities and Local Government how much his Department has contributed to the (a) administrative GO London 2006-09 Meltwater News 5,360.41 and (b) programme expenditure of each regional Government Office in each year since 2003; and what GOYH 2005-06 — n/a the equivalent forecast figures are for (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2006-07 COI n/a 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12. [319034] 2007-08 COI 16,450 2008-09 TNS Media Monitoring 12,885.05 Ms Rosie Winterton: The contributions from Services2 Communities and Local Government to the Government offices administrative budget are as follows: GOEM 2005-06 — 0 2006-07 — 0 £ 2007-08 — 0 2003-04 55,950,000 2008-09 TNS Media Monitoring — 2004-05 57,290,000 Services2 2005-06 60,060,000

2006-07 55,980,000 GOSW 2005-06 COI 8,483.55 2007-08 57,013,000 2006-07 COI 29,553 2008-09 55,780,000 2007-08 COI 6,627 2009-10 53,537,000 1 2010-11 48,405,000 2008-09 Meltwater News 7,097 2011-12 1— 1 Not yet determined GONW 2005-06 — 0 Programme expenditure which passes through the 2006-07 — 0 Government office network remains the responsibility 2007-08 — 0 of the Secretaries of State for the individual sponsor 2008-09 TNS Media Monitoring — Departments and is accounted for by those Departments Services2 so a full picture of programme funding could be identified n/a = Not available. only at a disproportionate cost. 1 Plus VAT. 2 In 2008-09 the Network contracted media monitoring services on behalf of five Government Offices at a cost of £28,793.38. Government Offices for the Regions: Mass Media Government Offices for the Regions: Operating Costs Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much the Government Office in each region has spent on Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State media monitoring services in each of the last five years; for Communities and Local Government what the and what companies were used by each office. [319217] projected running costs of the Government Office in each region are for 2009-10. [319269] Ms Rosie Winterton: In the past, a number of Government Offices have taken media monitoring contracts Ms Rosie Winterton: The projected running costs of to inform their role, including provision of regional the Government Offices for the Regions in 2009-10 are intelligence to Whitehall Departments. as follows: The means of doing this has varied between in house and use of contracted services. As of this year (2009-10) (£) following a review of GO communications activity, GO East 8,899,400 there has been one media monitoring contract with GO East Midlands 7,856,600 TNS Media Monitoring Services which covers the whole GO London 11,051,100 GO Network. That contract operates from 2 June 2009 GO North East 8,673,300 to 31 March 2010 with a total cost of £ 110,000 paid for GO North West 11,051,400 by the Network centrally. 1139W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1140W

Government Office (£) DCLG Secondees (auditors) GO South East 10,139,500 National Offender Management Service GO South West 9,625,000 Equality and Human Right Commission GO West Midlands 11,373,700 Highways Agency GO Yorkshire and Humber 9,049,700 National Treatment Agency Green Belt Regional Public Health Contractors: Amey, Fujitsu Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State 5 St Phillips Place, Birmingham for Communities and Local Government with HCA reference to the answer to the hon. Member for Youth Justice Board Bromley and Chislehurst of 21 July 2009, Official Report, columns 1655-6W, on the green belt, in which Cabinet Office local authority areas regional spatial strategies have Department of Health recommended a review of the areas which should be Natural England designated as green belt. [319323] National Offender Management Service National Treatment Agency Mr. Ian Austin: Regional spatial strategies (RSS) do National TUS not express any planning policies which refer to specific Health Protection Agency sites (local authority areas); they identify broad locations, which may be located in a local authority area or cross a Rivergate House, Bristol number of local authority boundaries. HCA Government Office Homes and Communities Agency HM Revenue and Customs Vehicle and Operator Services Agency Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government with which Equality and Human Right Commission organisations the (a) Homes and Communities National Treatment Agency Agency, (b) Homes and Communities Agency Food Standards Agency Academy and (c) Tenants Services Authority share Department of Health offices; and where each such office is located. [316350] National Offender Management Service Youth Justice John Healey: Information can only be provided where Care Services Improvement Partnerships the Department or one of its arm’s length bodies either Health Protection Agency (a) owns the freehold or (b) sub-lets space or (c) HCA/HCA Academy/TSA collocates with another body within the Eastbrook House, Cambridge CLG group. Where a property is let by a private landlord, TSA it is not for the Department to comment on their Government Office commercial arrangements. The available information is Department of Health as follows: National Treatment Agency Buildings with shared occupancy where HCA sub-lets Equality and Human Rights Commission space: East of England Regional Assembly Central Business Exchange II, Milton Keynes Regional Cities East HCA Care Service Improvement Partnerships sub-let: Milton Keynes Economic Learning Partnership Regional Offender Management Office 110 Buckingham Palace road, London HM Prison Service HCA National Probation sub-let: Environment Agency National Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders Buildings with shared occupancy where CLG is the landlord Youth Justice Board or sub-lets space: Maple House (6th and 7th floor only) Belgrave Centre, Nottingham HCA HCA TSA Government Office The addresses for all HCA, HCA Academy and TSA Care Quality Commission offices are listed on their websites. Public Health Food Standards Agency Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for National Offender Management Service Communities and Local Government how many staff Equality and Human Right Commission are employed in each office of the (a) Homes and Communities Agency, (b) Homes and Communities National Treatment Agency Agency Academy and (c) Tenant Services Authority. CLG Secondees [316412] Lateral, Leeds HCA John Healey: Staff for The HCA and the HCA Academy HCA Academy are given in the table: 1141W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1142W

Location Total Percentage of households

Ashford 21 Owner occupiers 71 73 75 Birmingham 33 Social renters 24 23 20 Bristol 19 Private renters 5 4 5 Buckingham Palace Road 81 All tenures 100 100 100 Cambridge 26 1 Male householder aged 65 or over, female aged 60 or over. Corby 11 Source: 2006-07 and 2007-08 CLG Survey of English Housing Croydon 19 2008-09 CLG English Housing Survey Exeter 25 Gateshead 108 Housing Leeds 169 Leicester 14 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Manchester 17 Communities and Local Government what recent Maple House 102 estimate he has made of the average deposit required of Milton Keynes 154 a first time buyer. [318737] Nottingham 18 Palestra 44 Reading 17 Mr. Ian Austin: The Department does not collect this Telford 15 information. Warrington 110 Wolverhampton 12 Housing: Construction Graduate trainees 20 Total 935 Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 Of the 69 staff, 29 of these are Academy staff. This figure stands at 31 December 2009. Communities and Local Government how many housing starts for housing of each type of tenure there Staff for the TSA are as follows: were in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point in the latest period for which figures are available. [318085] Location Total London 127 Mr. Ian Austin: The following table shows the number Manchester 36 of new house building starts in Essex county and Castle Cambridge1 16 Point in the December quarter of 2009. Leeds1 14 Leicester1 14 Local authority 1 Wolverhampton 4 Essex Castle Point Total2 211 1 Staff in these locations work in office space belonging to either to Communities Private enterprise 898 34 and Local Government or the Homes and Communities Agency. Registered social 72 0 2 This total excludes the 40 TSA staff who work from home. landlords Local authority 0 0 Households: Pensioners Total 970 34 Source: New build starts from P2 quarterly returns submitted by local authorities and Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for the National House-Building Council to CLG. Communities and Local Government what estimate he has made of the number of households with a Housing: Coventry pensioner head of household in each tenure sector in (a) 2006-07, (b) 2007-08, (c) 2008-09 and (d) 2009-10; and what proportion of such heads of Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State household was an owner-occupier in each of those for Communities and Local Government how many years. [319337] empty properties have been brought back into housing stock by Coventry City Council in each year since 2005. [319464] Mr. Ian Austin: Estimates of the number and proportion of households with a pension age householder in 2006-07, 2007-08 and 2008-09 are given in the following tables. Mr. Ian Austin: Information on the number of empty Data for 2009-10 is not yet available. The 2006-07 and properties that have been brought back into housing 2007-08 estimates are based on data from the Survey of stock by Coventry City Council in each year since 2005 English Housing; data for 2008-09 is from the English is not held centrally. Housing Survey. Pension age1 households by tenure, England Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Thousands of households for Communities and Local Government how many 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 (a) homes and (b) affordable homes have been built in Coventry since 1997. [319465] Owner 4,127 4,231 4,526 occupiers Mr. Ian Austin: Information on the number of house Social renters 1,376 1,316 1,220 building completions and the number of affordable new Private renters 304 239 294 build homes delivered in Coventry since 1997-98 is All tenures 5,806 5,785 6,040 provided in the following table: 1143W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1144W

House building completions and additional affordable new build homes delivered: Coventry, 1997-98 to 2008-09 Code Level Average EPC rating House building completions Additional affordable new build 387 homes delivered1 489 1997-98 * 110 5 100 1998-99 * 160 6 100 1999- * 150 2000 Housing: Finance 2000-01 * 60 2001-02 * 100 2002-03 806 260 Mrs. Lait: To ask the Secretary of State for 2003-04 * 70 Communities and Local Government when he expects 2004-05 * 120 to publish further proposals on reform of the Housing 2005-06 519 120 Revenue Account subsidy system; and if he will make a 2006-07 871 190 statement. [318918] 2007-08 1,128 490 2008-09 506 240 John Healey: In the consultation paper in July, I ‘*’ = Denotes not available. proposed a devolved system of responsibility and funding 1 Rounded to nearest 10. for council housing. On 16 December I announced that Sources: 1. House building completions = Local authority returns to CLG and National the responses show strong support for the principle of House Building Council self-financing. I intend to make a further announcement 2. Affordable new build homes = Homes and Communities Agency Investment in the next few weeks which will describe the progress Management System (IMS) and local authority returns to CLG we have made on self-financing, set-out more details of Not all affordable housing is delivered through new my proposals and provide a summary of responses to build completions, supply can also come from the the consultation. acquisition and refurbishment of private sector homes. In 2008-09 for example a total of 270 additional affordable Housing: Regeneration homes were delivered in Coventry. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much his for Communities and Local Government how many Department has spent on the Housing Market Renewal homes have been built as a result of the Kickstart Pathfinder programme in each year since its initiative in Coventry to date. [319466] establishment; and what the equivalent forecast figure is for (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12. John Healey: Under round one of the Kickstart [319038] initiative, allocations of £973,000 were made to schemes in Coventry to provide a total of 111 homes all of which Mr. Ian Austin: Housing Market Renewal allocations will be built by the end of March 2011. from the beginning of the programme to 2010-11 are given in the following table. 2011-12 falls outside the Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State current settlement period and funding levels cannot for Communities and Local Government how many therefore be confirmed at this stage. home repossessions there have been in Coventry in each year since 1997. [319467] HMR Pathfinder funding1 £ million2 Mr. Ian Austin: There are two independent sources of 2003-04 51.0 data on actual numbers of mortgage possessions: The 2004-05 194.3 Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) and the Financial 2005-06 303.2 Services Authority (FSA). However both are only available 2006-07 314.1 for the United Kingdom as a whole. 2007-08 405.6 2008-09 381.0 Housing: Energy 2009-10 346.0 2010-11 311.0 1 An additional £23.4 million was allocated for HMR programme preparation Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State 2002-04. for Communities and Local Government what estimate 2 Includes funding for the three areas of wider lower demand. his Department has made of the average Energy Performance Certificate rating of a house built to Code Housing: Sales for Sustainable Homes Level (a) 1, (b) 2, (c) 3, (d) 4, (e) 5 and (f) 6. [319134] Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether any Mr. Ian Austin: From the information we have available, assessment has been made of the level of (a) the average Energy Performance Certificate rating of gazundering and (b) gazumping in the housing market houses built to the Code for Sustainable Homes various since the introduction of home information packs. levels are as follows: [319264]

Code Level Average EPC rating Mr. Ian Austin: No such assessment has been made.

184However, we intend to evaluate the effectiveness of 287HIPs by updating “The HIP Baseline Research Report”, published in January 2007. 1145W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1146W

Housing: Standards Local Government: Partnerships

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Communities and Local Government what estimate he for Communities and Local Government whether he has made of the number of properties in (a) Essex and has made an assessment of the effects of the Court of (b) Castle Point which (i) have been improved under Appeal ruling in the case of Brent London Borough the Decent Homes programme in each year of that Council v. Risk Management Partners Limited on the programme and (ii) do not meet the Decent Homes entry of local councils into joint companies and standard. [318086] partnerships other than mutual insurance bodies. [319312]

Mr. Ian Austin: The only information we hold on all Ms Rosie Winterton: Provisions to enable best value the stock is the annual number of non-decents. These authorities to set up and participate in mutual insurance are set out in the table. arrangements were secured in the Local Democracy, Non-decent dwelling estimates—Essex 2001-09 Economic Development and Construction Act 2009. 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 We have made clear that we are committed to considering Castle n/a n/a n/a 227 185 251 178 163 151 further the adequacy of local authority powers following Point the consultation on ‘Strengthening Local Democracy’ Essex n/a n/a n/a 19,266 18,070 16,183 15,015 8,354 10,217 (July 2009) and the responses to it. The Government are n/a = not available interested in extending powers—subject to certain prudential Source: restrictions—to deal both with the issues raised in the Annual returns to Communities and Local Government LAML case around councils giving guarantees and indemnities to each other and also to ensure greater Housing: Thames Gateway clarity in relation to action to drive efficiency and cost savings and so secure best value. These will be taken Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for forward at the first legislative opportunity. Such Communities and Local Government how many developments are intended to ensure that councils will homes have been built in the Thames Gateway area have a broad range of powers on which to take action in since 2008; and what target has been set for the number their communities’ interests, building on the best value of completions by 2016. [318717] duty. The well-being power remains as a power of first resort for councils acting in relation to the social, economic Mr. Malik: Since 2008 to 30 September 2009, the and environmental well-being of their areas. The White latest period for which data is available, 5550 new Paper ‘Putting the Frontline First: Smarter Government’ dwellings (new build and conversions) have been delivered (December 2009) and the pre-Budget report have committed in the Thames Gateway. Data for the fourth quarter of to further exploring, subject to the overall fiscal position, the calendar year will be available shortly. what further finance mechanisms, powers and flexibilities could support local authorities to drive growth and The Thames Gateway Delivery Plan, published in innovation most effectively. November 2007, sets out an ambition to build 160,000 new homes between 2001 and 2016. From 1 April 2001 Local Government: Pensions to 30 September 2009, 56,870 new dwellings (new build and conversions) have been added to the Thames Gateway Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State housing stock (including the 5550 already referred to). for Communities and Local Government with The recession has impacted on the start of construction reference to the speech made by the Minister for Local of new dwellings in the Thames Gateway as elsewhere. Government on 27 January 2010, how much and what But the Government remains confident its ambitions proportion of the £1 billion a year savings to public are still achievable in the longer term: indeed research service pension schemes from 2012-13 will accrue as a has shown that the Thames Gateway has the potential result of changes to the scope of the Local not only to meet but to exceed these ambitions. In the Government Pension Scheme. [319119] meantime, CLG and HCA continue to make every effort to sustain delivery, through initiatives like Kickstart. Ms Rosie Winterton: The pre-Budget report estimated public service pension schemes will save £1 billion a Landlords: Registration year from 2012-13, and at least twice this amount over the long-term as part of reforms across public service pension schemes. These savings will flow from cap and Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State share reforms impacting on the four main public service for Communities and Local Government what pension schemes provided for teachers, local authority mechanisms will be used to ensure that landlords employees, the NHS and the Civil Service. The proportion register on the proposed National Register of of savings to accrue to the Local Government Pension Landlords. [319212] Scheme will reflect the results of its cap and share process programmed to follow the next Scheme-wide Mr. Ian Austin: Details of our proposals for the actuarial valuation exercise due on 31 March 2010. national register for landlords, including mechanisms for ensuring compliance are provided in the document Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State which we published on 3 February—“The Private Rented for Communities and Local Government what Sector: Professionalism and Quality—Consultation. assessment has been made of the effect of stock market Summary of Responses and Next Steps.” movements between March 2007 and March 2010 on 1147W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1148W the employee contributions towards the Local the wide range of responsibilities and interactions those Government Pension Scheme to be required from local bodies have with local authorities, obtaining this information authorities from March 2011. [319304] could only be achieved at disproportionate cost.

Ms Rosie Winterton: The next scheme actuarial valuation Local Government: Trespass exercise takes place on 31 March 2010. It will assess all the relevant factors influencing the stability and solvency Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State of the scheme, including the effect of recent stock for Communities and Local Government what his market conditions and trends. New employer contribution latest estimate is of the number of (a) squatters, (b) rates to be determined by the valuation will apply from trespassers and (c) other unauthorised occupiers of 1 April 2011 until 31 March 2014. Employee contributions local authority properties. [319110] are set separately by the relevant Local Government Pension Scheme Regulations. Mr. Ian Austin: No data are available centrally on the Local Government: Redundancy Pay total number of squatters, trespassers or other unauthorised occupiers in local authority properties. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government with Migration Impact Fund reference to the answer to the hon. Member for Meriden of 19 October 2009, Official Report, columns Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State 1312-13W, on local government: redundancy pay, if he for Communities and Local Government what the (a) will place in the Library a copy of each of the amount, (b) date of issuing and (c) purpose has been non-confidential written responses, including the of each grant made under the Migration Impact Fund. record of the verbal briefing by the Chartered Institute [319035] of Personnel and Development. [319320] Mr. Malik: The Migration Impacts Fund is a UK-wide Ms Rosie Winterton: The Audit Commission plans to £35 million fund for each of the years 2009-10 and publish its report on severance pay made to local authority 2010-11. The overall purpose of the fund is to reduce chief executives in mid-March. The consultation responses the short term pressure of migration on local public from organisations will be placed on the Commission’s services. Councils and other frontline services were asked website when the report is published. Copies of all through their local strategic partnerships to identify non-confidential responses will be placed in the Library projects in their areas. of the House. On the 9 July 2009 the Secretary of State announced Local Government: Reorganisation the successful proposals for England. The specific purpose of each grant, the amount granted and the local services being supported are shown in the table which has been Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State placed in the Library of the House. for Communities and Local Government what account his Department takes of the level of support from the Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State relevant local authorities in considering the creation of for Communities and Local Government which local a new unitary authority. [314985] authorities have received funding from the Migration Impact Fund; how much each has received; and what Ms Rosie Winterton: The Secretary of State is now methodology was used to allocate the funding. [319036] carefully considering the Boundary Committee’s advice, all the representations he has received, including those Mr. Malik: The Migration Impacts Fund is allocated of affected local authorities, and all other relevant regionally; the amount each region receives is weighted information, before taking his statutory decisions about towards the areas where international migration has whether, to implement any of the unitary proposals had the greatest short-term impact. Local Strategic before him, with or without modification, or to take no Partnerships in each region were invited to bid for action on them. projects the Migration Impacts Fund could support Local Government: Statistics and these were assessed by their regional Government Office. The final decision was made by the Secretary of State. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what datasets The allocations to each local authority (per year) are not in the National Indicator dataset are collected from set out in the following table: local authorities by his Department’s executive Migration Impacts Fund—Local authority funding 2009-10 and 2010-11 agencies and non-departmental public bodies. [319245] Authority Total 2009-10 Total 2010-11

Suffolk County Council 428,362 425,804 Ms Rosie Winterton: The Department has three executive Peterborough City 354,832 337,030 agencies; the Planning Inspectorate, Fire Service College, Council and Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre. None of Norfolk County Council 183,600 186,000 these agencies collect datasets outside the national indicator Cambridgeshire County 403,500 364,525 dataset. Council The Department does not hold information on datasets Breckland Council 220,000 30,000 collected from local authorities by the Department’s Borough Council of Kings 85,000 85,000 Lynn and West Norfolk twenty associated non-departmental public bodies. Given 1149W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1150W

Migration Impacts Fund—Local authority funding 2009-10 and 2010-11 Migration Impacts Fund—Local authority funding 2009-10 and 2010-11 Authority Total 2009-10 Total 2010-11 Authority Total 2009-10 Total 2010-11

Hertfordshire County 264,000 277,000 Northumberland County 380,591 291,240 Council Council Harlow Council 220,000 190,000 Stockton-on-Tees 104,042 94,821 Luton Borough Council 272,500 317,000 Borough Council Derby City Council 500,000 450,000 Bury Metropolitan 87,000 87,000 Borough Council Leicester City Council 100,000 85,000 Bolton Metropolitan 105,000 n/a Lincolnshire County 854,000 875,000 Borough Council Council Nottinghamshire County 210,000 10,000 Manchester City Council 550,000 550,000 Council Rochdale Metropolitan 156,550 161,247 Nottingham City Council 346,836 366,874 Borough Council Haringey Council 297,275 324,350 Salford City Council 159,135 100,627 Enfield Council 258,000 258,000 Tameside Metropolitan 55,000 5,000 Borough Council London Borough of 234,844 104,344 Barnet Liverpool City Council 320,000 320,000 Camden Council 241,500 260,000 Sefton Metropolitan 342,000 309,000 Borough Council London Borough of 143,760 143,760 Hackney Wirral Borough Council 150,261 139,908 Islington Council 90,000 90,000 Blackburn with Darwen 225,297 154,818 Westminster City Council 270,000 365,000 Borough Council Merton Council 158,000 158,000 Blackpool Council 65,000 65,000 The Royal Borough of 102,441 102,441 Lancashire County 258,964 135,410 Kingston upon Thames Council London Borough of 50,000 50,000 Lancaster City Council 40,086 58,463 Lewisham Cumbria County Council 250,000 237,000 Sutton Council 43,636 23,636 East Sussex County 344,513 332,023 London Borough of 150,000 150,000 Council Croydon Brighton and Hove City 151,880 75,950 London Borough of 123,900 123,900 Council Lambeth Reading Borough Council 221,750 n/a London Borough of 294,303 300,085 Bracknell Forest Borough 15,000 15,000 Southwark Council Wandsworth Borough 98,000 95,000 Council Southampton City 480,000 480,000 Council London Borough of 84,000 106,000 Barking and Dagenham Slough Borough Council 490,000 790,000 London Borough of 179,000 98,000 Portsmouth City Council 184,813 248,225 Newham Kent County Council 352,000 257,000 London Borough of 84,000 107,450 Thanet District Council 70,000 90,000 Redbridge Rushmoor Borough 115,000 75,000 The City of London 217,000 217,000 Council London Borough of 60,600 60,600 Medway Council 391,103 300,074 Tower Hamlets Plymouth City Council 468,000 468,000 Waltham Forest Council 138,137 43,000 Cornwall Council 416,777 370,900 Royal Borough of 63,000 38,000 Kensington and Chelsea Swindon Borough Council 280,000 290,000 Harrow Council 121,500 123,160 Devon County Council 459,700 330,000 London Borough of 198,000 198,000 Bournemouth Borough 290,000 190,000 Hammersmith and Council Fulham Somerset County Council 314,094 551,045 London Borough of Brent 133,000 154,000 Bristol City Council 739,982 763,965 London Borough of 350,000 350,000 Telford and Wrekin 183,500 61,500 Ealing Council London Borough of 218,000 215,300 Stoke on Trent City 85,443 78,732 Hounslow Council London Borough of 273,496 273,496 Warwickshire County 288,006 175,000 Hillingdon Council London Borough of 145,000 145,000 Greenwich Wychavon District 258,600 344,600 Council London Borough of 100,000 50,000 Havering Birmingham City Council 362,550 347,050 North Tyneside Council 111,400 111,400 Staffordshire County 275,000 275,000 Council Sunderland City Council 20,000 n/a Sandwell Metropolitan 250,000 250,000 Hartlepool Borough 40,000 55,000 Borough Council Council Dudley Metropolitan 124,999 125,000 Gateshead Council 60,000 120,000 Borough Council Newcastle City Council 181,166 108,648 East Staffordshire 75,000 75,000 Middlesbrough Council 74,095 122,675 Borough Council 1151W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1152W

Migration Impacts Fund—Local authority funding 2009-10 and 2010-11 We are also aiming to make the Order amending the Authority Total 2009-10 Total 2010-11 Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Stafford Borough Council 25,000 50,000 Development) Order 1995, which will make a change Wolverhampton City 54,770 50,045 from a HMO to a C3 dwelling house permitted Council development, by 8 March and lay it before Parliament East Riding of Yorkshire 153,644 89,484 by 15 March 2010. Council Both amendments will come into effect on 6 April North Lincolnshire 82,143 82,143 Council 2010. North Yorkshire County 118,400 118,652 Non-Domestic Rates: Ports Council City of Wakefield 116,592 183,366 Metropolitan Borough Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Council Communities and Local Government when Barnsley Metropolitan 171,400 213,000 prescription of statutory ports ended; and what the Borough Council effect of ending it was on the rating of (a) port Rotherham Metropolitan 133,038 169,457 Borough Council businesses and (b) port owners. [319438] Calerdale Council 215,000 205,000 Barbara Follett: The ending of prescribed rating was Sheffield City Council 400,000 400,000 enacted in the Local Government Act 2003 and the Leeds City Council 375,000 375,000 statutory port authorities (owners) were subject to Kirklees Council 225,000 225,000 conventional rating from 1 April 2005. The impact on Bradford Metropolitan 425,000 325,000 Borough Council the individual port authority was that their rateable Doncaster Council 150,000 150,000 value was ascertained by the same rules of assessment Kingston Upon Hull City 150,000 150,000 that apply to all other non-domestic property instead of Council by a prescribed formula. Total 23,581,306 22,099,223 The ending of prescribed rating had no effect on whether property occupied by other businesses within Mortgages ports should be assessed separately for non-domestic rates. The principles concerning separate rateability where Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State there is “exclusive occupation” and “paramount control” for Communities and Local Government if he will are long established. The leading case on the subject is a place in the Library a copy of the research report on House of Lords decision from as far back as 1936— UK mortgage arrears and repossessions commissioned Westminster Council v. Southern Railway Company by the National Housing and Planning Advice Unit and W.H. Smith and Son. from Professor John Muellbauer. [319290] The review of ports by the Valuation Office Agency is to ensure that all individual business properties within John Healey: The National Housing and Planning and outside ports are rated fairly to ensure that the Advice Unit (NHPAU) is an independent advisory agency burden of contributions to funding local government is and publication is a matter for the NHPAU. shared fairly among businesses around the country. The Government have listened to the concerns of Mortgages: Government Assistance businesses with significant and unexpected backdated bills, including some businesses within ports. It has Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for legislated to enable such bills to be repaid over an Communities and Local Government how much unprecedented eight years rather than in a single instalment, funding he has provided to assist low income helping affected businesses to manage the impact on homeowners in the last 12 months. [318811] their cash flows during the downturn by reducing the amount they are required to pay now by 87.5 per cent. Mr. Ian Austin: Over £1 billion has been made available As at 8 October 2009, local authorities have reported to local authorities through the Regional Housing Pot that ratepayers occupying 221 properties within ports over the period 2008-09 to 2010-11 to help improve had fully discharged their backdated liability and ratepayers house conditions for the most vulnerable households as occupying a further 200 business properties within ports part of CSR 07. £425 million was made available for had been granted a schedule of payments. 2009-10. Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Multiple Occupation: Planning Permission Communities and Local Government for how long the cumulo system of paying business rates by businesses Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State in port hereditaments was prolonged in 2000; by what for Communities and Local Government what the means the system was ended; when notice was given to planned timetable is for introduction of secondary port companies paying under the system that it would legislation to require houses in multiple occupation to be ended; and when it was ended. [319439] have planning permission. [319120] Barbara Follett: The term “cumulo” (artificial Mr. Ian Austin: We are aiming to make the Order hereditament) has been used to describe where properties amending the Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) (hereditaments) within the same occupation that under Order 1987, which will create the HMO use class, by the normal rules of rating would be shown as individual 8 March 2010. This order does not need to be laid entries in the rating lists are shown as a single entry in before Parliament. the rating list. 1153W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1154W

The ability to create an artificial port hereditament in by letter of the ports review and its background in May this way is determined by regulation 5 of the Non-Domestic 2006. While the initial reviews have been completed, Rating Miscellaneous Provisions (2) Regulations 1989 many port properties change over time and the VOA (SI 1989/2303), which provides that in certain circumstances continue to make alterations to individual properties as two or more hereditaments occupied by a statutory port part of its statutory duty to maintain the rating lists. authority to be a single hereditament to be liable for The review of ports by the Valuation Office Agency is non-domestic rates where for example the properties to ensure that all individual business properties within are split by a river. and outside ports are rated fairly to ensure that the Whether a separate occupier within a port makes a burden of contributions to funding local government is contribution to business rates through their agreement shared fairly among businesses around the country. with the port authority is a contractual matter between the occupier and the port authority. The cumulo is not The Government have listened to the concerns of and has never been a method for occupations that businesses with significant and unexpected backdated should be separately assessed for business rates to waive bills, including some businesses within ports. It has their liabilities. legislated to enable such bills to be repaid over an unprecedented eight years rather than in a single instalment, The review of ports by the Valuation Office Agency is helping affected businesses to manage the impact on to ensure that all individual business properties within their cash flows during the downturn by reducing the and outside ports are rated fairly to ensure that the amount they are required to pay now by 87.5 per cent. burden of contributions to funding local government is shared fairly amongst businesses around the country. As at 8 October 2009, local authorities have reported that ratepayers occupying 221 properties within ports The Government have listened to the concerns of had fully discharged their backdated liability and ratepayers businesses with significant and unexpected backdated occupying a further 200 business properties within ports bills, including some businesses within ports. It has had been granted a schedule of payments. legislated to enable such bills to be repaid over an unprecedented eight years rather than in a single instalment, helping affected businesses to manage the impact on Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for their cash flows during the downturn by reducing the Communities and Local Government who decided that amount they are required to pay now by 87.5 per cent. port companies hitherto part of one port hereditament As at October 8 2009, local authorities have reported should be separately assessed for business rates. that ratepayers occupying 221 properties within ports [319445] had fully discharged their backdated liability and ratepayers occupying a further 200 business properties within ports Barbara Follett: Valuation officers are required under had been granted a schedule of payments. Section 41 of the Local Government Finance Act 1988 to maintain accurate rating lists. When they become Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for aware that a change is needed, such as that at the ports, Communities and Local Government when the they must make the alteration and specify the date from Valuation Office Agency began its work on separate which the change should become effective for rates assessment of port businesses in ports previously rated charging purposes. as a single hereditament; for what reasons the Agency decided to do this; and when the work was completed. The principles concerning separate rateability, which [319444] is the rating rationale for the separate assessment of some properties within ports, where there is “exclusive occupation”and “paramount control”are long established. Barbara Follett: Valuation officers are required under The leading case on the subject is a House of Lords Section 41 of the Local Government Finance Act 1988 decision from as far back as 1936—Westminster Council to maintain accurate rating lists. When they become v. Southern Railway Company and W.H. Smith and aware that a change is needed, such as that at the ports, Son. they must make the alteration and also specify the date from which the change should become effective for rates The review of ports by the Valuation Office Agency is charging purposes. to ensure that all individual business properties within The principles concerning separate rateability where and outside ports are rated fairly to ensure that the there is “exclusive occupation” and “paramount control” burden of contributions to funding local government is are long established. The leading case on the subject is a shared fairly among businesses around the country. House of Lords decision from as far back as 1936— The Government have listened to the concerns of Westminster Council v. Southern Railway Company businesses with significant and unexpected backdated and W.H. Smith and Son. bills, including some businesses within ports. It has The VOA rated ports and properties within ports for legislated to enable such bills to be repaid over an the 2005 list based upon information supplied by the unprecedented eight years rather than in a single instalment, ports operators. A significant number of separate helping affected businesses to manage the impact on assessments appeared in the rating lists for individual their cash flows during the downturn by reducing the port occupiers even before the following review was amount they are required to pay now by 87.5 per cent. initiated. As at 8 October 2009, local authorities have reported It was only after the lists were compiled, through that ratepayers occupying 221 properties within ports routine work to keep the lists up to date, it was found had fully discharged their backdated liability and ratepayers that the rating lists may not reflect all the separate occupying a further 200 business properties within ports properties within the ports. Port operators were advised had been granted a schedule of payments. 1155W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1156W

Private Rented Housing Regional Improvement and Efficiency Partnerships

Mr. Curry: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Communities and Local Government if the Minister of for Communities and Local Government (1) how much State for Housing will meet representatives of First collaborative procurement spending was directed Track Solutions, formerly Social Homes, to discuss his through the Regional Efficiency Improvement Department’s plans for local letting agencies. [319485] Partnership in the latest period for which figures are available; [319112] John Healey: I meet from time to time with a wide (2) how much central funding is planned to be range of representative bodies and other stakeholders provided to each Regional Efficiency Improvement with an interest in our proposals for the future of the Partnership in (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) private rented sector, including the ‘local lettings agency’ 2011-12. [319133] concept. I have no current plans to meet with individual commercial companies, including First Track Solutions Ms Rosie Winterton: In 2009-10, core funding for (formerly Social Homes), on this topic. each of the nine Regional Improvement and Efficiency Public Bodies: Finance Partnerships (RIEPs) was:

Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Region Core funding (£ million) for Communities and Local Government what the cost East of England 7.952 of the (a) Tenant Services Authority, (b) Homes and East Midlands 7.159 Communities Agency, (c) Audit Commission and (d) London 7.699 Standards Board is expected to be in (i) 2009-10, (ii) North East 5.674 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12. [319037] North West 8.036 South East 9.707 Barbara Follett: In relation to the cost of the Tenant South West 7.665 Services Authority I refer the hon. Member to the West Midlands 7.193 answer to the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Yorkshire and Humber 6.416 Shapps) on June 16 2009, Official Report, column 202W. Total 67.5 The Standards Board’s estimate of its annual budgets for 2009-2010, 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 can be found Indicative core funding for each RIEP in 2010-11 is in their corporate plan, which is available on the Standard the same as for 2009-10; the decision on whether to Board’s website at: confirm these indicative allocations will be announced shortly. No decisions have been taken yet regarding core www.standardsforengland.gov.uk funding in 2011-12. The planned budgets for the Homes and Communities Agency are set out in its corporate plan for 2009-10 and Core funding is intended to enable RIEPs to meet 2010-11, available on the Agency’s website at: their objectives to support the successful delivery of local area agreements and achievement of councils’ http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/publications £5.5 billion efficiency target by March 2011. An important The Audit Commission’s planned income from Central activity to meet these objectives will be the promotion Government grants as well as other sources for 2009-2010, of collaborative procurement opportunities among local 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 is contained their draft strategic authorities. Core funding is not ring-fenced, so the plan for 2010, available on the Audit Commission’s decision on how much of it is to be used for this website at: purpose is for individual RIEPs to make. www.audit-commission.gov.uk RIEPs also receive grants from government departments It should be noted that budgets for 2011-12 have not to support specific activities; for example, in 2009-10, been formally set; it is expected that this will happen as they shared £31.706 million from this Department’s part of a comprehensive spending review during 2010. Efficiency and Transformation Fund to use in support Regional Development Agencies of capital projects that aim to deliver public services in more customer-focused and efficient ways. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to for Communities and Local Government how many the answer to the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield of staff work for each Regional Improvement Efficiency 1 February 2010, Official Report, column 138W, on Partnership. [319271] regional development agencies: mining, for what reasons representatives of the other regional Ms Rosie Winterton: We do not hold this information development agencies were not invited to the English centrally. Coalfield forum meetings. [319796] Regional European Offices Ms Rosie Winterton: The full range of stakeholders involved in the Coalfields Forum is quite wide; it includes Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State representatives from several regeneration organisations for Communities and Local Government pursuant to and Government Departments. In order to keep the the answer of 10 February 2010, Official Report, number of participants at each Forum meeting to a column 1128W, on regional European offices, whether manageable size, the decision was taken to invite Yorkshire the Audit Commission has a role in auditing the Forward to participate on behalf of the Regional finances of the (a) regional leaders boards and Development Agencies (RDAs). They are the only RDA regional assemblies in England outside London and with a dedicated coalfields team. (b) regional European offices in Brussels. [319011] 1157W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1158W

Ms Rosie Winterton: This is an operational matter for Amounts (£) paid in: the Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive of the Audit Commission to write to the hon. Member Organisation 2007-08 2008-09 2009-101 direct. Basildon district council 2,370,693 4,436,981 6,339,117 Letter from Steve Bundred, dated 2 March 2010: Castlepoint borough council 99,779 39,783 340,000 Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. Dartford borough council 4,068,190 4,967,821 6,217,700 Gravesham borough council 1,614,038 1,434,000 1,434,000 The Audit Commission has been appointed by 4NW (the North West Regional Assembly) to audit its accounts. The necessary Kent county council 6,648,872 5,052,292 8,920,915 consent of the Secretary of State was received under section 29 of London borough of Barking 0 0 150,000 the Audit Commission Act 1998. and Dagenham London borough of Bexley 454,235 341,490 885,000 We previously audited the accounts of the Yorkshire and Humber Regional Assembly up to, and including, 2008/09. Again London borough of 2,205,671 2,228,569 6,112,520 Greenwich the necessary consent was obtained. London borough of 2,057,805 471,599 3,350,805 In both instances the Commission was approached by the Lewisham relevant Regional Assembly, as the financial management of the Medway council 100,000 156,561 1,560,000 bodies was carried out by local authorities, to which the Commission Southend on Sea borough 455,954 522,016 3,000,000 is required to make an auditor appointment under the Audit council Commission Act 1998. Swale borough council 0 0 3,000,000 The Commission does not audit the finances of Regional Leaders Boards or Regional European Offices in Brussels. East of England 000 A copy of this letter will be placed in Hansard. Development Agency (EEDA) Regional Planning and Development: Thames Gateway South East England 5,553,001 358,354 4,025,000 Development Agency (SEEDA) Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for

Communities and Local Government (1) how much the Invest Thames Gateway 246,165 544,471 962,000 Homes and Communities Agency spent on the Thames Office of Government 236,455 0 0 Gateway project in each of the last three years; Commerce [318716] Commission for Architecture 335,644 118,822 0 (2) which public bodies received funding from the and the Built Environment Thames Gateway Fund in each of the last three years; Land Restoration Trust 1,170,554 5,000 0 and how much was paid to each organisation in each of Forestry Commission 1,081,365 798,464 0 those years; [318721] Environment Agency 853,500 178,500 580,000 1 Amounts for 2009/10 are an estimate based on actual expenditure to date (3) how much was paid to (a) the South East and forecast to the end of the financial year. England Development Agency and (b) the East of Rented Housing: Empty Property England Development Agency by the Thames Gateway Fund in each of the last three years; [318724] (4) how much was paid to local authorities by the Margaret Moran: To ask the Secretary of State for Thames Gateway Fund in each of the last three years; Communities and Local Government how many (a) local authority-owned, (b) registered social landlord- [318725] managed and (c) privately-owned homes were empty (5) how much was received by the Homes and for more than six months in each of the last 10 years; Communities Agency from the Thames Gateway Fund how many and what proportion of privately-owned in each of the last three years. [318727] homes in each local authority area were empty in each of the last 10 years; how many privately-owned homes Mr. Malik: The Thames Gateway programme is set were returned to habitation in each of the last 10 years; out in the Thames Gateway delivery plan published in how many Empty Homes Management orders have November 2007. Until 30 November 2008 the programme been (i) applied for and (ii) completed since such orders was administered by the Thames Gateway Executive in were introduced; what discussions he has had with the Communities and Local Government. From 1 December Empty Homes Agency on its proposals for a 2008, the programme was transferred to the Homes and homesteading scheme; what assessment he has made of Communities Agency, although grant in aid for the two the likely effectiveness of the introduction of such a Thames Gateway urban development corporations scheme in reducing the number of empty homes; what continues to be paid out by Communities and Local estimate he has made of the cost of such a scheme in its Government. first 12 months; and if he will make a statement. The development corporations, local authorities, regional [318527] development agencies and other public bodies that have received Thames Gateway funding in the three years Mr. Ian Austin: Information on the number of (a) 2007-08, 2008-09, and 2009-10, together with the amounts, local authority-owned homes that were empty for more are: than six months and (c) privately-owned homes that were empty for more than six months in each of the last Amounts (£) paid in: 10 years can be found in the tables published on the Organisation 2007-08 2008-09 2009-101 Local Authority Housing Strategy and Business Plan Data page of the Communities and Local Government London Thames Gateway 44,000,000 50,000,000 35,000,000 Development Corporation website at the following link. These tables present data Thurrock Thames Gateway 59,000,000 30,000,000 30,000,000 collected in the annual Housing Strategy Statistical Development Corporation Appendix (HSSA) and Business Planning Statistical 1159W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1160W

Appendix (BPSA). Figures for some years, including Mr. Ian Austin: The total number of dwellings recorded 2009, may be unavailable due to changes in the format on the National Register of Social Housing (NROSH) and detail of the forms used to collect these data. is 4.2 million. Information on the number and proportion of privately- The proportion of council (local authority) housing owned homes in each local authority area that were recorded on NROSH is 95 per cent. The proportion of empty in each of the last 10 years can also be found in housing association (registered social landlord) housing the HSSA-based tables at the same link. Figures for recorded on NROSH is 96 per cent. some years, including 2009, may be unavailable due to The Tenants Services Authority’s target, inherited changes in the format and detail of the forms used to from the Housing Corporation, is for all NROSH priority collect these data. data fields to be populated by 31 March 2010. http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/localauthorityhousing/ Social Rented Housing: Rents These data can only be collated and presented in a single set of tables and provided in the answer to this Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State parliamentary question at disproportionate cost. for Communities and Local Government what the Information on (b) the number of registered social timetable is for the implementation of his landlord-managed homes that were empty for more Department’s policy of rents convergence between than six months in each of the last 10 years, and homes local authority and housing association tenants. that were empty for more than six months in each of the [319234] last 10 years and on the number of privately-owned homes that were returned to habitation in each of the John Healey: There is no fixed date established for last 10 years is not held centrally. convergence. To date, 29 Interim Empty Dwelling Management Social Rented Housing: Tenure Orders (EDMOs) have been approved by the Residential Property Tribunal Service (RPTS) since the legislation Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State came into effect in April 2006. Information on the for Communities and Local Government (1) what number of Empty Dwelling Management Orders applied research on social housing tenure has been for is not held centrally. commissioned by his Department and its agencies in My right hon. Friend, the Minister for Housing met the last 36 months; and what such research has been with the Empty Homes Agency on 2 September 2009 completed; [319042] and discussed a range of issues including homesteading (2) what research (a) his Department and (b) its but no formal proposals have been submitted. agencies have conducted in relation to social housing Sleeping Rough rents since 2005; [319325] (3) what research (a) his Department and (b) its Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State agencies have conducted on social housing tenure, for Communities and Local Government what tenure eligibility and tenure security since 2005. methodology his Department has approved for [319326] conducting rough sleeping counts. [319236] Mr. Ian Austin: Details of research projects commissioned Mr. Ian Austin: Local authorities evaluate the extent by Communities and Local Government and its of rough sleeping within their area in accordance with predecessors are available from our research database the methodology on street counts set out in the (RD) at Department’s “Guidance on Evaluating the Extent of http://www.rmd.communities.gov.uk/ Rough Sleeping—2007 Revision,” which was developed The database provides information on projects going in conjunction with the voluntary sector. This guidance back to 30 November 2001. This includes the subject, gives the following definition of rough sleepers: contractor and cost and publication date of each research “People sleeping, or bedded down, in the open air (such as on commission. the streets, or in doorways, parks or bus shelters); people in buildings or other places not designed for habitation (such as Social Rented Housing: Waiting Lists barns, sheds, car parks, cars, derelict boats, stations, or “bashes”). In 1998 there were estimated to be 1,850 rough sleepers Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State in England. Since then good progress has been progress for Communities and Local Government how many has been made in reducing the total number of rough (a) individuals and (b) households were on social sleepers to 464 in 2009, based on local authority street housing waiting lists in England in (i) April 1997 and counts. (ii) the latest period for which figures are available. [319228] Social Rented Housing: Registration John Healey: Information is available on numbers of Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State households rather than people or families. The number for Communities and Local Government how many of households registered on social housing waiting lists homes are recorded on the National Register of Social in each local authority, each region, and in England, as Housing; what proportion of (a) council housing and at 1 April each year from 1997 to 2009, is published on (b) housing association housing is on the register; and the Communities and Local Government website in what targets the Tenant Services Authority has to Table 600. The link for this table is given as follows: increase the quantity of data held on the register. http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/xls/ [319299] table600.xls 1161W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1162W

Standards for England capital funding to areas or projects will be reduced as a consequent on the allocation of £30 million of funding Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State to the places for 16 and 17 year old single parents. for Communities and Local Government how many [319107] (a) items of data and (b) performance indicators the Standards Board requires local authorities to submit Mr. Ian Austin: Capital funding to areas or projects to it. [319143] will not be reduced as a consequence of the Prime Minister’s announcement in September 2009. Ms Rosie Winterton: In the course of each year the Standards Board requires local authority monitoring Tenancy Deposit Schemes officers to complete and submit five online returns. Four are quarterly returns used to collect information Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for on local case handling and legal composition of the Communities and Local Government what local standards committee to enable the Standards Board representations his Department has received on recent to fulfil its statutory responsibilities for regulating the increases in the cost of joining tenancy deposit conduct regime including, in the worst cases of the schemes. [318729] standards committee failing to carry out its functions in relation to the conduct of members in a reasonable Mr. Ian Austin: The Department has received around manner, if necessary, suspending a council’s standards ten representations from letting agents about the Tenancy committee’s initial assessment functions and passing its Deposit Scheme (TDS)’s recent fee increases. TDS is functions to another authority. one of the two government authorised “insurance-based” The fifth return is an annual return enabling the tenancy deposit protection schemes which landlords Standards Board to disseminate information on best pay a fee to join. The custodial tenancy deposit protection practice across local government. scheme, operated by the Deposit Protection Service, remains free to use. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government if he will Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for place in the Library copies of the branding and Communities and Local Government what recent communications advice obtained by the Standards assessment he has made of the profits made by Board in relation to its decision to rebrand itself as companies operating tenancy deposit schemes; and if Standards for England. [319265] he will make a statement. [318730]

Ms Rosie Winterton: I am arranging with the chief Mr. Ian Austin: No recent assessment of the profits of executive of the Standards Board for England for a the companies operating tenancy deposit protection copy of the advice, commissioned by the Standards schemes has been made. The three tenancy deposit Board, to be placed in the Library of the House. protection schemes are operated by private companies Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State under contract with Communities and Local Government for Communities and Local Government if he will and are designed to be self-financing. bring forward proposals to abolish the Standards Tesco: Planning Permission Board for England. [319327] Ms Rosie Winterton: We have no plans to abolish the Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Standards Board for England. for Communities and Local Government how many planning appeals relating to Tesco supermarkets have Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State been considered by the Planning Inspectorate in the for Communities and Local Government with last 24 months. [319015] reference to the answer of 19 October 2009, Official Report, column 1321W, on Standards for England, Mr. Ian Austin: In the 24 month period 1 January whether Ministerial approval was sought for the 2008 to 31 December 2009 the Planning Inspectorate rebranding of Standards Board for England as received 49 planning appeals and, within the same Standards for England; and whether external period, determined 31 planning appeals, where Tesco organisations were contracted to provide services was either appellant or joint appellant and the development relating to that rebranding. [319365] related to a retail outlet. Ms Rosie Winterton: These are operational matters Working Neighbourhoods Fund which the Standards Board may progress without ministerial approval. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State An external organisation was contracted to provide for Communities and Local Government what plans he services relating to the rebranding, at a cost within the has for the funding of the Working Neighbourhoods delegated authority of the Standards Board. Fund beyond 2010. [319225] Supported Housing: Finance Ms Rosie Winterton: An indicative budget of Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State £507,900,000 has been allocated for 2010-11 as part of for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the £1.5 billion three year (2008-11) settlement to help the answer to the hon. Member for Bromley and local authorities and their partners tackle worklessness. Chislehurst of 26 January 2010, Official Report, No decision has yet been taken about the Working columns 773-4W, on supported housing, whether Neighbourhoods Fund beyond 2010-11. 1163W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1164W

CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES Mr. Coaker [holding answer 1 March 2010]: Funding for Building Schools for the Future (BSF) is released when financial close has been reached for the school Building Schools for the Future Programme concerned. Once this milestone is reached funding is paid in instalments throughout the construction period. Mr. Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for Table 2 lists all the schools which had reached financial Children, Schools and Families (1) how much funding close at the time of the last quarterly payment run in his Department has allocated to the Building Schools December 2009. They have all therefore received funding for the Future programme to date; [319545] through BSF. (2) which schools in England have received funding The total amount of funding allocated to the Building from the Building Schools for the Future programme Schools for the Future (BSF) programme is shown in to date. [319544] table 1 as follows:

Table 1 £ million 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Total

Capital 786 927 513 630 979 3,385 PFI credits 1,200 1,250 1,300 1,314 1,320 6,384 Total 1,986 2,177 1,813 1,944 2,299 9,769 Notes: 1. The figures shown are budgets and do not include academies procured through the Partnerships for Schools national framework. 2. It is expected that approximately £2.1 billion of capital and £1.3 billion PFI credits will be allocated to BSF in 2010-11.

Table 2 Table 2 Local authority School name Local authority School name

Barnsley Carlton Greenwich Thomas Tallis Barnsley Darton School Hackney Clapton Girls Technology College Barnsley Dearne Hackney Hackney Free and Parochial Barnsley Kirk Balk Hackney Stoke Newington Barnsley Penistone Haringey Alexandra Park School Birmingham Broadway School Haringey Blanche Neville Birmingham Holte Haringey Fortismere Birmingham Mayfield Haringey Gladesmore Community School Birmingham Stockland Green Haringey Heartlands High School Bradford Beckfoot Haringey Highgate Wood Secondary School Bradford Beckfoot and Hazelbeck Haringey Hornsey School for Girls Bradford Beechcliffe Special Haringey John Loughborough School Bradford Buttershaw Haringey Moselle School Bradford Challenge College Haringey Northumberland Park and The Vale Bradford Greenhead and Beechcliffe Haringey Park View Academy Bradford Hanson Haringey Sixth Form Centre Bradford Hazelbeck Special Haringey St. Thomas More School Bradford New co-located SEN Haringey Vale Resource Base Bradford Parkside School Haringey William C Harvey Bradford Salt Grammar School Haringey Woodside High School Bradford Tong Haringey Young Peoples Centre (Haringey Pupil Bristol Ashton Park Referral Unit) Bristol Brislington Enterprise College Islington Highbury Grove Bristol Cotham Islington Holloway School Bristol Florence Brown Islington Samuel Rhodes Islington St. Aloysius College (RC) Bristol Hartcliffe Education Campus Kent Charles Dickens Bristol Oasis Academy Kent Community College Whitstable Bristol Speedwell Technical College Kent Dane Court School Bristol St. Bedes Kent Herne Bay High Bristol St. Bernadettes Kent Ifield Bristol St. Mary Redcliffe Temple Kent King Ethelbert Bristol Whitefield Fishponds College Kent Northfleet School for Girls Derbyshire Bolsover Kent Northfleet Technology College Derbyshire Heritage Kent St. Georges Derbyshire PRU (Derbyshire) Kent St. Johns School Derbyshire Springwell (Derbyshire) Kent Thamesview School Durham Easington Knowsley Halewood Durham Sedgefield Knowsley Highfield Durham Shotton Hall Knowsley Kirkby Community LC Greenwich Crown Woods Knowsley Kirkby RC Learning Centre 1165W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1166W

Table 2 Table 2 Local authority School name Local authority School name

Knowsley Knowsley Central Manchester Levenshulme (Girls) Knowsley Knowsley Central RC Manchester Manchester Communications Academy Knowsley North Huyton Joint Christian Learning Manchester Meade Hill Centre Manchester New East Manchester Knowsley South Huyton Learning Centre Manchester Newall Green School Lambeth Stockwell Park High School Manchester North Ridge SEN Lambeth The Elm Court School Manchester Our Lady’s RC Lambeth The Elmgreen School Manchester Parklands Enterprise Academy Lambeth The Michael Tippet School Manchester Piper Hill Lambeth The Park Campus Manchester Plant Hill Lancs Accrington Academy Manchester St. Matthew’s RC Lancs Blessed Trinity Manchester St. Pauls Lancs Burnley Campus Middlesbrough Acklam Grange Lancs Hameldon Middlesbrough Ashdale Lancs Marsden Heights Middlesbrough Beverley and Tollesby School Lancs Pendle Vale Middlesbrough Ormesby Lancs Pendle Vale GLD Middlesbrough Priory Woods Lancs Rose Middlesbrough Tollesby Lancs Shuttleworth College N Lincs Brumby Engineering College Lancs Sir John Thursby Community College N Lincs Melior College Lancs Sir John Thursby co-located special Newcastle All Saints Lancs Unity College Newcastle Brunton First School Leeds Allerton Grange Newcastle Gosforth Central Leeds Allerton High Newcastle Gosforth East Leeds Cardinal Heenan Newcastle Gosforth High Leeds City of Leeds Newcastle Gosforth West Middle Leeds Cockburn Newcastle Heaton Manor Leeds Crawshaw Newcastle Kenton Leeds John Smeaton Community College Newcastle Knoplaw Primary Leeds Priesthorpe Newcastle Milecastle Primary Leeds Primrose Newcastle Sacred Heart Leeds Pudsey Grangefield Newcastle Sir Charles Parsons Leeds Ralph Thoresby High Newcastle St. Cuthbert’s RC Leeds Rodillian Newcastle St. Mary’s RC Leeds Swallow Hill Community College Newcastle Stocksfield Avenue Leeds Temple Moor High Newcastle Thomas Bewick Leicester Beaumont Leys Secondary School Newcastle Trinity Dene View Leicester Fullhurst Community College Newcastle Trinity Oakfield Leicester Judgemeadow Community College Newcastle Walbottle Leicester Soar Valley College Newcastle Walker Lewisham Catford Newcastle Walkergate Primary Lewisham Hatcham Temple Grove Newcastle West Jesmond Primary Lewisham Northbrook Newcastle West Walker Primary School Lewisham Sedgehill Newcastle Westgate Hill Primary Liverpool Broughton Hall Newcastle Canning Street Primary Liverpool Cardinal Heenan Newham Brampton Manor Liverpool Ernest Cookson Newham Lister Liverpool Gateacre (and Hope) Schools Newham Rokeby Liverpool Hope Newham Sarah Bonnell Liverpool King David Campus Nottingham Big Wood School Liverpool Lower Lee Nottingham Bulwell Academy Liverpool The Alsop High School Nottingham Hadden Park Liverpool West Derby (and Ernest Cookson) Nottingham Nottingham Academy Luton Barnfield South Academy Nottingham Nottingham University Samworth Luton Barnfield West Academy Academy Luton Challney High for Girls Nottingham Oakfields Special School Centre of Luton Lea Manor Excellence Manchester Brookway Nottingham Rosehill Manchester Buglawton Hall Rochdale Hollingworth Business And Enterprise College Manchester Buglawton Residential Salford Chatsworth Manchester Burnage Boys Manchester Castlefield Salford Harrop Fold Manchester Gorton Village (Cedar Mount High Salford Irlam and Cadishead and Melland) Salford New Park Manchester King David High Salford Oakwood High 1167W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1168W

Table 2 Table 2 Local authority School name Local authority School name

Salford Walkden High Waltham Forest Bremer School Sandwell Holly Lodge Waltham Forest Kelmscott Sandwell Ruskin House PRU Waltham Forest Queens Road Primary Sandwell St. Michael’s C of E School Waltham Forest Waltham Forest Girls Sandwell Westminster School Westminster Grey Coat Hospital School Sandwell Whiteheath School Westminster Pimlico School Sheffield All Saints Westminster St. Augustine High CE Sheffield Bents Green Westminster St. Georges RC Sheffield Chaucer Business and Enterprise Westminster St. Marylebone School College Westminster Westminster City Boys School Sheffield Ecclesfield Barnet East Barnet School Sheffield Fir Vale Bath and North East Somerset Writhlington School Sheffield Firth Park Bracknell Forest Garth Hill College Sheffield Forge Valley High Buckinghamshire Cressex Community School Sheffield Heritage Park Cornwall Penryn College Sheffield High Storrs School Derby Sinfin Community School Sheffield Hinde House Devon Bideford College Sheffield Holgate Meadows Dorset Elizabeth’s CE VC School Sheffield King Ecgburt Durham Durham Johnstone Sheffield KS3 PLC East Sussex Bexhill High School Sheffield KS4 PLC Gloucestershire Rednock School Sheffield Newfield Greenwich Charlton Sheffield Silverdale Harrow Whitmore High School Sheffield Talbot Herefordshire The Minster College Sheffield Tapton Kingston upon Thames Chessington Community College Sheffield Yewlands Leicestershire Melton John Fernley High Solihull Lanchester Leicestershire Melton Post 16 Centre Solihull Park Hall Lewisham Forest Hill Solihull SCIL (Merstone + Forest Oak) Lewisham Greenvale Solihull Smith’s Wood Sports College Manchester Wright Robinson Solihull The Archbishop Grimshaw (RC) Newcastle Benfield Southwark St Michaels North Somerset Nailsea Community School Southwark Tuke North Yorkshire Richmond School South Tyneside and Gateshead (STaG) Bamburgh School Plymouth Estover Community College STaG Boldon School Redbridge Loxford School of Science and STaG Harton Technology College Technology STaG Heworth Grange Richmond Upon Thames Teddington School STaG Jarrow School Rutland Vale of Catmose College STaG Kingsmeadow Community Sefton Litherland High School Comprehensive School Shropshire William Brookes School STaG Lord Lawson Of Beamish Community South Gloucestershire Filton High School School Southend on Sea Belfairs High School STaG Mortimer School St Helens Cowley Language college STaG South Shields Community School. Sutton Stanley Park High School STaG St. Josephs RC School Torbay Torquay Community College STaG St. Wilfrids RC School Warrington Culcheth High School STaG Thomas Hepburn West Berkshire St. Bartholomew’s School Stoke Birches Head West Sussex Bognor Regis Community College Stoke Sandon High Wigan Abraham Guest High School Sunderland Academy 360 Wiltshire Melksham Oak School (new school— Sunderland Biddick name was George Ward) Sunderland Castle View Academy Windsor and Maidenhead Holyport Manor Special School Sunderland Hylton Red House Academy Wirral Woodchurch High School Sunderland Oxclose Wokingham Waingels College Sunderland St. Robert of Newminster RC York Joseph Rowntree School Sunderland Washington Tameside Alder Tameside Ashton Academy Building Schools for the Future Programme: Birmingham Tameside Mossley Hollins Tameside New Charter Academy Tameside Sam Laycock Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Tower Hamlets Bethnal Green Children, Schools and Families (1) what discussions he Tower Hamlets Morpeth has had with Birmingham city council on its Tower Hamlets St. Paul’s Way Community School prioritisation and phasing of schools projects under the Building Schools for the Future programme; Tower Hamlets Wessex [320061] 1169W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1170W

(2) what recent discussions he has had with following a serious incident between 2008 and 2009; Birmingham city council on future Building Schools and what assessment he has made of the reasons for for the Future projects in Birmingham; [320062] that change. [314044] (3) how many schools in Birmingham are (a) being Dawn Primarolo: Data on the number of notifications and (b) planned to be redeveloped as part of the of deaths of children following a serious incident is a Building Schools for the Future programme; [320063] matter for Ofsted. Ofsted has disclosed the information (4) how much funding he has allocated to Building requested in reply to a request under Freedom of Schools for the Future (BSF) projects in Birmingham Information Act from the hon. Gentleman. for (a) active projects and (b) follow-on projects in Serious incidents are notified to Ofsted straight away each wave of that programme; and whether there has where a child has died and where abuse or neglect are been any change to (i) agreed and (ii) projected funding known or suspected to be a factor in the death. But arrangements for BSF projects in Birmingham. further investigation may indicate that the death was [320091] due to other causes. Mr. Coaker: Partnerships for Schools (PfS), as the Government Offices have been working closely with delivery agent for Building Schools for the Future (BSF), Local Safeguarding Children Boards (LSCBs) to help is responsible for discussions with local authorities about ensure that procedures relating to child deaths are fully prioritising and phasing of schools in the programme. observed. A higher number of notifications could be Birmingham is in Waves 2 and 5 of the BSF programme due in part to an increased awareness of the procedures and discussions with the city council have reached the that need to be followed, including the notification to following stages: Ofsted of serious incidents. The Wave 2 Strategic Business Case and Outline Business Case Every single death of a child is an absolute tragedy, (OBC) identify the prioritisation and phasing of schools in the whether as a result of abuse or neglect or not. We must first phase that are now either in construction or being developed. continue to do everything we can to protect children The Wave 5 Strategy for Change and OBC, which will establish from those who seek to harm them. This is why we the prioritisation and phasing of the second phase, is currently commissioned Lord Laming to carry out a report of being completed by the local authority. safeguarding progress nationally. Lord Laming’s report PfS is currently evaluating the authority’s Readiness to Deliver confirmed that robust legislative, structural and policy (RtD) proposal for Phase 3. foundations are in place. We accepted and are implementing The local authority’s Academy programme is in development. all 58 of his recommendations. 10 schools are being redeveloped and 20 are planned It is also the case that we are the first country in the to be redeveloped as part of the BSF programme. world to implement a statutory multi-agency child death reviewing system to collect, analyse and act upon When an OBC for a wave of a local authority’s BSF information about every child’s death. project is agreed, the funding is fixed for the first group of prioritised schools in the wave. However, as each Citizenship: Essex subsequent group of schools in the wave is brought forward the funding is adjusted for changes in construction Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for inflation and location factors. As such, all funding after Children, Schools and Families how many young the first group of schools in the wave is indicative until people in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point have received the respective stage submission is approved. The current lessons in citizenship since that subject was made part funding forecasts for Birmingham’s BSF projects are as of the national curriculum. [318087] follows: Ms Diana R. Johnson: We do not collect local data £ million and cannot say how many young people have received lessons on citizenship in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point PFI credits Capital grant Funding status since it became a compulsory subject in 2002. ActiveWave2 78.77 18.33 Fixed schools Departmental Consultants Remaining 27 80 Indicative Wave 2 schools Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families (1) whether consultants Funding of circa £160 million of capital grant for have been contracted to carry out public participation eight academies is currently in the process of being activity on behalf of his Department in the last three approved. This funding is not included above. years; [316835] Funding allocations for Wave 5 will be determined in (2) whether his Department has contracted its OBC. Allocations for the remaining schools within consultants to carry out public participation activity on Birmingham will be agreed when the projects come into behalf of his Department since 2007. [317069] the programme. The authority has submitted RtD proposals for Phase 3 within the £100 million scope required by Ms Diana R. Johnson: The requested information PfS. cannot be obtained without incurring disproportionate cost. Children: Deaths Departmental Correspondence

John Hemming: To ask the Secretary of State for John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what the change was in Children, Schools and Families to how many (a) the number of notifications to Ofsted of deaths of (a) emails and (b) letters from members of the public his children and (b) children under the age of one year Department has responded since May 2007. [317048] 1171W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1172W

Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department was established Departmental Information Officers on 28 June 2007. From 1 July 2007 until 31 December 2009 we have responded to 108,901 items of correspondence Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for from members of the public. The Department does not Children, Schools and Families how many record the information by correspondence method and communications or press officers his Department therefore cannot break the figure down into e-mails and employs. [319146] letters. Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department’s human Departmental Energy resources systems holds information on individuals by their generalist civil service grade and therefore it is not possible to identify everybody engaged in communications Andrew Stunell: To ask the Secretary of State for work in the department, and this information could Children, Schools and Families what the estimated (a) only be obtained at disproportionate cost. amount and (b) cost was of energy used in his Department in each year since 1997; what proportion Departmental Public Consultation of the energy used was generated from renewable sources in each of those years; and if he will make a Stewart Hosie: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [317227] Children, Schools and Families how much his Department spent on (a) written consultations, (b) Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department for Children, consultation events and (c) focus groups in each of the Schools and Families was formed via a machinery of last three years. [317068] government change in June 2007 therefore a complete response to the question above can be provided only for Ms Diana R. Johnson: The requested information can financial years 2007/08, 2008/09. be obtained only at disproportionate cost. In 2007/08 the Department consumed 23,763,917 Pete Wishart: To ask the Secretary of State for kilowatt hours of energy (gas, electricity and steam) at a Children, Schools and Families how much his cost of £1,489,366 at the four HQ sites in London, Department has spent on (a) written consultations, Darlington, Sheffield and Runcorn. (b) consultation road shows and (c) focus groups in In 2008/09 the Department consumed 21,286,750 each of the last three years. [317839] kilowatt hours of energy (gas, electricity and steam) at a cost of £1,683,021 at the four HQ sites in London, Ms Diana R. Johnson: The requested information can Darlington, Sheffield and Runcorn. be obtained only at disproportionate cost. While a green energy tariff is in place for Darlington Departmental Publications electricity it is not possible to determine the level of energy generated from renewables sources for each of these years. Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families if he will place in the Library a copy of his Department’s document entitled Social Departmental Finance Mobility: Narrowing Social Class Educational Attainment Gaps published on 26 April 2006. [316716] Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what the cost to his Ms Diana R. Johnson: A copy of the document Department of funding (a) Post-graduate Certificate entitled “Social Mobility: Narrowing Social Class in Education and (b) undergraduate Bachelor of Educational Attainment Gaps,” dated 26 April 2006, Education courses (i) was in each of the last three years has been placed in the Library. and (ii) will be in 2010-11. [318136] Disadvantaged Mr. Coaker: The figures contained in the following Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, table show the mainstream funding amounts the Training Schools and Families how many schemes aimed at (a) and Development Agency for Schools has paid to teacher improving parenting skills, (b) supporting training providers for postgraduate and undergraduate dysfunctional families and (c) providing diversionary courses of initial teacher training (ITT) for academic activities for young people at risk of offending his years 2007/08 to 2009/10. The breakdown of funding Department and its predecessors have introduced since between postgraduate and Postgraduate Certificate in 1997; how much has been spent on each; and whether Education courses and Bachelor of Education and other any ring-fenced funding has been provided to local undergraduate courses is not available. Figures for 2010/11 authorities to finance such schemes. [312229] are not yet available. Dawn Primarolo: Between April 1997 and March £ 2009, we have identified 13 key policies that contribute ITT funding Postgraduate Undergraduate Total to: (a) improving parenting skills, (b) supporting 2007/08 142,547,155 110,404,248 252,951,403 dysfunctional families and (c) providing diversionary 2008/09 148,511,550 111,698,185 260,209,735 activities for young people at risk of offending. This 2009/10 150,613,580 107,637,420 258,251,000 consists of £168 million on schemes that are aimed at Notes: improving parenting skills, £34 million supporting 1. The above figures do not take account of funding adjustments (holdback) dysfunctional families and £439 million providing which have been made subsequently for under- and over recruitment to courses. 2. These figures do not include recruitment premiums, student bursaries and diversionary activities for young people at risk of offending. other incentives, capital support or development funding. Of this, £164 million has been ring fenced funding. 1173W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1174W

In addition to this, Sure Start has a total spend to Students in maintained schools1 sitting A level subjects in 2003/042 and 2008/093 date of £4,808 million and would contribute to both by local authority of pupil residence part (a) and (b) respectively. This funding is also ring Number Kensington fenced. Islington and Chelsea Knowsley

Free School Meals: Leeds English 2003/04 107 39 52 Literature 2008/09 112 43 40 Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what proportion of students in Leeds North West constituency was eligible History 2003/04 81 20 41 to receive free school meals in the latest period for 2008/09 99 26 32 which figures are available. [319507] Modern 2003/04 38 26 14 Ms Diana R. Johnson: The requested information is Language shown in the table. 2008/09 39 26 19 Maintained nursery, primary1 and state funded secondary1, 2 schools: Number and percentage of pupils known to be eligible for free school meals3 as at January Chemistry 2003/04 35 13 27 2009 2008/09 45 25 25 Leeds North West constituency Percentage of 1 Includes pupils attending all maintained schools (including academies and city Number of Number of pupils pupils eligible for technology colleges) pupils4 eligible for FSM FSM . 2 Based on final data. 3 Based on revised data. 4 Nursery and 4,620 520 11.3 Figures not shown in order to protect confidentiality. primary Source: schools1 National Pupil Database. State funded 5,200 660 12.7 secondary GCSE: Gifted Children schools1, 2 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies. Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for 3 Those eligible may choose not to take up their offer of a free school meal for Children, Schools and Families how many and what various reasons e.g. through preference or through non-attendance on the day. Pupils are counted as eligible only if they meet the eligibility criteria and make proportion of pupils with gifted and talented status a claim. achieved (a) three As at A-level, (b) five GCSEs 4 Includes sole and dual (main) registrations. including English and mathematics at grades A* to C Note: Pupil numbers have been rounded to the nearest 10 excluding equivalents and (c) at least one GCSE pass Source: at grade C or above, excluding equivalents in (i) 1997, School Census (ii) 2003, (iii) 2006 and (iv) the most recent year for GCSE which figures are available. [316855]

Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Coaker: The information requested for the academic Children, Schools and Families how many students years 2005/06 and 2008/09 is in the following tables. resident in (a) Knowsley, (b) Kensington and Chelsea Data on gifted and talented pupils were not collected and (c) Islington sat an A level in (i) mathematics, (ii) before the 2005/06 academic year. further mathematics, (iii) physics, (iv) English GCSE achievements of gifted and talented pupils1, 2 at the end of key stage 4, literature, (v) history, (vi) a modern language and (vii) 2005/06 and 2008/09 chemistry in (A) 1997 and (B) the most recent year for 2005/06 2008/09 which figures are available. [316852] Number of gifted and talented pupils1, 2 at the 63,819 93,100 end of key stage 4 Mr. Coaker: The requested information is shown in Number of gifted and talented pupils1, 2 who 53,570 81,143 the following table for 2003/04 and 2008/09. Subject achieved five or more GCSEs including English and mathematics at grade A*-C excluding information based on pupil residency is available only equivalents from 2003/04 onwards. Percentage of gifted and talented pupils1, 2 who 83.9 87.2 Students in maintained schools1 sitting A level subjects in 2003/042 and 2008/093 achieved five or more GCSEs including English by local authority of pupil residence and mathematics at grade A*-C excluding equivalents Number Number of gifted and talented pupils1, 2 who 62,454 91,611 Kensington achieved at least one GCSE pass at grade C or Islington and Chelsea Knowsley above excluding equivalents 1, 2 Mathematics 2003/04 45 24 34 Percentage of gifted and talented pupils who 97.9 98.4 achieved at least one GCSE pass at grade C or 2008/09 60 49 45 above excluding equivalents 1 Pupils attending maintained schools only including city technology colleges

4 and academies. Further 2003/04 3 —52 The question on the school census does not differentiate between gifted Mathematics pupils and talented pupils. 2008/09 6 9 4— Source: National Pupil Database (2005/06 final data, 2008/09 revised data).

Physics 2003/04 19 15 18 A level achievements of gifted and talented students1, 2, 3, 2005/06 and 2008/09 2008/09 14 13 19 2005/06 2008/09

Number of gifted and talented students1, 2, 3 10,683 31,469 1175W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1176W

A level achievements of gifted and talented students1, 2, 3, 2005/06 and 2008/09 Mr. Coaker [holding answer 25 February 2010]: The 2005/06 2008/09 available information on how much has been spent per Number of gifted and talented students1, 2, 3 3,152 8,136 pupil in East Midlands and in England since 1997 is who achieved three grade As at A level4 shown in the following table. Percentage of gifted and talented students1, 2, 3 29.5 25.9 who achieved three grade As at A level4 1 Students attending maintained schools only including city technology Lynne Featherstone: To ask the Secretary of State for colleges and academies. 2 16 to 18-year-old candidates entered for GCE/ Children, Schools and Families how much (a) primary Applied GCE A levels and Double Awards in 2008/09 and GCE/VCE A level and VCE Double Awards in 2005/06. 3 The question on the school census does and (b) secondary schools in each London borough not differentiate between gifted students and talented students. 4 Includes have received in funding per student in each of the last GCE/Applied GCE A level and Double Awards in 2008/09 and GCE/VCE A five years; and if he will make a statement. [319063] level and VCE Double Awards in 2005/06. Source: National Pupil Database (2005/06 final data, 2008/09 revised data). Home Education: Gloucestershire Mr. Coaker: Per pupil revenue funding figures for primary school pupils (ages three to 10) for each London borough between 2004-05 and 2005-06 are shown in Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Table 1. These figures are in real terms and are based on Schools and Families what recent estimate he has made financial years. of the number of home educators in (a) Gloucestershire and (b) Stroud constituency; and what Table 1: Real terms revenue funding per pupil—SSA/ EFS plus grants estimate he has made of the cost to his Department of £ their regulation should the recommendation of the 2004-05 2005-06 Badman review of secondary education be accepted. Camden 5,860 6,100 [312747] Greenwich 5,210 5,570 Hackney 5,970 6,380 Ms Diana R. Johnson: Gloucestershire local authority Hammersmith and Fulham 5,700 5,940 (LA) provided us with information about the number of Islington 5,760 6,120 children in its area, which includes Stroud, who were Kensington and Chelsea 5,910 6,090 known by the LA to be home-educated in May 2009 Lambeth 5,830 6,110 (254) and again in September 2009 (224). This data has Lewisham 5,350 5,710 been used to inform Graham Badman’s Review of “Elective Southwark 5,430 5,880 Home Education England”. We have not collected data Tower Hamlets 6,110 6,570 below local authority level. Wandsworth 5,040 5,410 There may be other home-educated children in the Westminster 5,560 5,840 Gloucestershire LA area of which the local authority is Barking and Dagenham 4,410 4,610 not aware because there is no current requirement for Barnet 4,200 4,520 local authorities to keep a register of home-educated Bexley 3,810 4,000 children. Brent 4,850 5,160 We estimate that the cost of the registration and Bromley 3,810 4,040 monitoring proposals for home-educated children will Croydon 4,140 4,350 be around £26.3 million in the first year and £14.6 Ealing 4,640 4,990 million in subsequent years, based on 20,000 home-educated Enfield 4,370 4,570 children. We do not have figures available yet for allocations Haringey 5,100 5,340 below national level. We will develop detailed funding Harrow 4,220 4,500 methodologies for local authority allocations after Havering 3,770 3,970 discussion with the Local Government Association and Hillingdon 4,110 4,400 local authorities. Hounslow 4,540 4,850 Kingston upon Thames 3,840 4,140 National Curriculum Tests Merton 4,220 4,510 Newham 5,030 5,310 Redbridge 4,070 4,300 Mrs. Maria Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for Richmond upon Thames 3,810 4,060 Children, Schools and Families how many and what Sutton 3,910 4,100 proportion of children achieved at least level 2b in each Waltham Forest 4,660 4,850 subject at Key Stage 1 in each year since such Notes: assessments were introduced. [317740] 1. Price Base: Real terms at 2008-09 prices, based on GDP deflators as at 9 December 2009. 2. Figures reflect relevant sub-blocks of Standard Spending Assessment/Education Mr. Coaker [holding answer 22 February 2010]: The Formula Spending (EFS) settlements and exclude the pensions transfer to EFS. information has been placed in the Libraries of the 3. Total funding also includes all revenue grants in DFES Departmental House. Expenditure Limits relevant to pupils aged three to 10 and exclude Education Maintenance Allowances (EMAs) and grants not allocated at LEA level. For those authorities in receipt of advance of grant under the transitional support Pupils: Per Capita Costs arrangements for 2004-05, advance grant funding is included in the year of payment (2004-05). There will be a consequential reduction in DFES grant for these LEAs in future years (either 2006-07 and 2007-08 or 2006-07 to 2008-09, Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for depending on the terms on which the advance was given to the LEA). 4. The pupil numbers used to convert £ million figures to £ per pupil are those Children, Schools and Families how much has been underlying the EFS settlement calculations. spent per pupil (a) in each local authority area in the 5. Rounding: Figures are rounded to the nearest £10. East Midlands and (b) on average in England since 6. Status: Some of the grant allocations have not been finalised. If these do change, the effect on the funding figures is expected to be minimal. 1997. [318766] 1177W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1178W

Per pupil revenue funding figures for secondary school coverage to EFS. EFS comprised a schools block and pupils (ages 11 to 15) for each London borough between an LEA block (to cover LEA central functions) whereas 2004-05 and 2005-06 are shown in Table 2. These figures DSG only covers the school block. LEA block items are are in real terms and are based on financial years. still funded through DCLG’s Local Government Finance Table 2: Real terms revenue funding per pupil—SSA/EFS plus grants Settlement but education items cannot be separately £ identified. Consequently, there is a break in the 2004-05 2005-06 Department’s time series as the two sets of data are not comparable. Camden 7,200 7,340 To provide a comparison for 2008-09 DSG, the Greenwich 6,600 6,970 Department have isolated the schools block equivalent Hackney 7,990 8,320 funding in 2005-06 (the baseline); as described above Hammersmith and Fulham 7,240 7,310 this does not represent the totality of ‘education’ funding Islington 7,440 7,800 in that year. Kensington and Chelsea 7,660 7,760 Lambeth 7,920 8,180 Per pupil revenue funding figures for pupils (ages Lewisham 7,100 7,490 3-15)for each London borough between 2005-06 and Southwark. 7,600 7,820 2008-09 are shown in Table 3. As the DSG is a mechanism Tower Hamlets 7,600 7,930 for distributing funding, a split between primary and Wandsworth 6,600 6,850 secondary schools is not available. These figures are in Westminster 6,850 6,950 real terms and are based on financial years. Barking and Dagenham 5,540 5,690 Table 3: Real terms revenue funding per pupil—DSG plus grants Barnet 5,180 5,510 2005-06 Bexley 4,800 4,960 (baseline) 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Brent 6,220 6,510 Camden 6,570 6,690 6,900 6,910 Bromley 4,910 5,050 Greenwich 5,660 5,920 6,130 6,260 Croydon 5,410 5,620 Hackney 6,510 6,910 7,070 7,250 Ealing 5,950 6,280 Hammersmith 6,050 6,330 6,540 6,490 Enfield 5,410 5,590 and Fulham Haringey 6,790 6,790 Islington 6,140 6,430 6,700 6,660 Harrow 5,300 5,480 Kensington and 6,420 6,480 6,610 6,530 Havering 4,850 5,020 Chelsea Hillingdon 5,120 5,420 Lambeth 6,180 6,390 6,620 6,780 Hounslow 5,590 5,870 Lewisham 5,910 6,130 6,300 6,330 Kingston upon Thames 4,880 5,120 Southwark 5,990 6,440 6,640 6,650 Merton 5,320 5,590 Tower Hamlets 6,680 7,010 7,270 7,350 Newham 6,200 6,420 Wandsworth 5,430 5,650 5,880 5,980 Redbridge 4,970 5,140 Westminster 5,540 6,040 6,310 6,260 Richmond upon Thames 4,920 5,100 Barking and 4,960 4,960 5,240 5,270 Sutton 4,890 5,020 Dagenham Waltham Forest 5,960 6,130 Barnet 4,810 4,980 5,130 5,200 Notes: Bexley 4,400 4,510 4,660 4,730 1. Price Base: Real terms at 2008-09 prices, based on GDP deflators as at 9 Brent 5,210 5,340 5,590 5,700 December 2009. Bromley 4,240 4,350 4,510 4,590 2. Figures reflect relevant sub-block-s of Standard Spending Assessment/ Education Formula Spending (EFS) settlements and exclude the pensions Croydon 4,480 4,650 4,850 4,910 transfer to EFS. Ealing 5,200 5,350 5,540 5,620 3. Total funding also includes all revenue grants in DFES Departmental Enfield 4,770 4,910 5,070 5,100 Expenditure Limits relevant to pupils aged 3 to 10 and exclude Education Maintenance Allowances (EMAs) and grants not allocated at LEA level. For Haringey 5,560 5,640 5,850 5,940 those authorities in receipt of advance of grant under the transitional support Harrow 4,590 4,800 4,970 5,170 arrangements for 2004-05, advance grant funding is included in the year of Havering 4,360 4,450 4,600 4,670 payment (2004-05). There will be a consequential reduction in DFES grant for these LEAs in future years (either 2006-07 and 2007-08 or 2006-7 to 2008-9, Hillingdon 4,610 4,790 4,930 4,990 depending on the terms on which the advance was given to the LEA). Hounslow 5,010 5,180 5,340 5,380 4. The pupil numbers used to convert £ million figures to £ per pupil are those Kingston upon 4,560 4,670 4,790 4,850 underlying the EFS settlement calculations. Thames 5. Rounding: Figures are rounded to the nearest £10. 6. Status: Some of the grant allocations have not been finalised. If these do Merton 4,550 4,810 4,960 5,010 change, the effect on the funding figures is expected to be minimal. Newham 5,360 5,640 5,870 5,970 The revenue per pupil figures shown in Table 3 are Redbridge 4,400 4,580 4,760 4,820 taken from the Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG). They Richmond 4,440 4,550 4,690 4,750 are not comparable with those for the years 2004-05 to upon Thames 2005-06 (in Tables 1 and 2 above) because the introduction Sutton 4,490 4,590 4,740 4,810 of the DSG in 2006-07 fundamentally changed how Waltham Forest 4,970 5,170 5,330 5,330 local authorities are funded. Notes: 1. This covers funding through the Dedicated Schools Grant, School The 2004-05 to 2005-06 figures are based on Education Standards Grant, School Standards Grant (Personalisation), and Standards Formula Spending (EFS) which formed the education Fund as well as funding from the-Learning and Skills Council; it excludes grants which are not allocated at LA level. part of the Local Government Finance Settlement, plus 2. Price Base: Real terms at 2008-09 prices, based on GDP deflators as at 9 various grants. This was an assessment of what local December 2009. authorities needed to fund education rather than what 3. These figures are for all funded pupils aged 3 to 15. 4. Figures have been rounded to the nearest £10. they spent. The DSG is based largely on an authority’s 5. Some of the grant allocations have not been finalised. If these do change, previous spending. In addition, the DSG has a different the effect on the funding figures is expected to be minimal. 1179W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1180W

School Choice: Advisory Services safety; and what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of such provision. [318514] Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families if he will place in the Library a Ms Diana R. Johnson [holding answer 24 February copy of his Department’s evaluation of the Choice 2010]: We have made a commitment to improve the Advice service. [317091] training provided to head teachers and school business managers on asbestos management, and Partnerships Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department commissioned for Schools will be working with HSE to produce training Sheffield Hallam university to carry out an evaluation materials. These will be signposted in courses run by the of the independent Choice Advice Service in a small National College for Leadership of Schools and Children’s sample of local authorities. The evaluation was published Services for new head teachers and school business on 27 November 2008 and is available electronically at: managers. This work will assist them to understand and http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/research/programmeofresearch/ implement their role in relation to asbestos management projectinformation.cfm?projectid=15471&resultspage=1 during building work, repairs, maintenance and day-to-day A hard copy is also available in the House of Commons operation of schools. Library. It is not the role of classroom teachers to monitor, manage or to be accountable for the presence of asbestos Schools in schools. Responsibility for this resides with local authorities and/or governing bodies in ensuring that Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for schools are safe for pupils and staff. Consequently, Children, Schools and Families how many pupils are initial teacher training does not address this topic. receiving one-to-one or small group tuition in (a) While there are Qualified Teacher Status standards secondary and (b) primary schools; and how many relating to health and safety issues and the establishment pupils he expects to receive such tuition in each such of safe learning environments, training in relation to case in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12. these standards will be teaching and learning focused, [317824] and not related to issues concerning the construction of the building in which that learning takes place. Ms Diana R. Johnson: As part of the one-to-one tuition programme, funding is available to primary schools to provide approximately 150,000 courses of tuition in Schools: Crimes of Violence 2009-10, and approximately 335,000 courses of tuition in 2010-11 in key stage 2. In addition to this, the Every Child Counts and Every Child a Reader programmes in Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for key stage 1 and the Every Child a Writer programme at Children, Schools and Families how many assaults key stage 2 will provide approximately 43,000 children were officially recorded where the incident took place with one-to-one tuition in 2009-10, and 87,000 with on school premises in (a) 1997, (b) 2005 and (c) the one-to-one tuition in 2010-11. latest year for which figures are available. [317822] Funding for secondary schools from the one-to-one Mr. Coaker: Data on assaults in schools is not collected tuition programme is available to provide approximately at a national level. 140,000 courses of tuition in 2009-10, and approximately 290,000 courses of tuition in 2010-11. No decisions on funding for the one-to-one tuition Schools: Essex programme or the Every Child programmes have been taken for 2011-12. Schools received a personalisation budget of £1.6 billion Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for for the three year period of this comprehensive spending Children, Schools and Families how much has been review, and this funding can be used to provide further spent per pupil on schools in (a) Essex and (b) Castle small group support. The Department does not collect Point in each year since 1997. [318089] data on the number of pupils receiving this type of support. Mr. Coaker: The Department allocates education funding to local authorities so the requested information Schools: Asbestos for Castle Point constituency is not available. In addition it is for local authorities to determine how they spend Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for their funds locally. The per pupil revenue funding figures Children, Schools and Families what training is for schools in England and Essex local authority since provided to teachers on asbestos management and 1997 is shown in the following table:

School based expenditure per pupil from 1997-98 to 2008-09 England Pre LGR Essex Essex

1997-98 Pre-Primary and Primary Education 1,740 1,740 — Secondary Education 2,360 2,580 — Special Schools 9,830 8,730 — Total (including Pre-Primary) 2,080 2,020 — 1998-99 Pre-Primary and Primary Education 1,870 — 1,950 Secondary Education 2,450 — 2,690 1181W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1182W

School based expenditure per pupil from 1997-98 to 2008-09 England Pre LGR Essex Essex

Special Schools 10,110 — 9,590 Total (including Pre-Primary) 2,190 — 2,230 1999-2000 Primary Education 2,010 — 1,970 Pre-Primary and Primary Education 2,050 — 1,970 Secondary Education 2,610 — 2,730 Special Schools 10,900 — 9,550 Total (including Pre-Primary) 2,390 — 2,370 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 2,370 — 2,370 2000-01 Primary Education 2,210 — 2,240 Pre-Primary and Primary Education 2,280 — 2,250 Secondary Education 2,830 — 2,860 Special Schools 11,860 — 10,300 Total (including Pre-Primary) 2,620 — 2,590 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 2,590 — 2,590 2001-02 Primary Education 2,480 — 2,460 Pre-Primary and Primary Education 2,570 — 2,480 Secondary Education 3,150 — 3,190 Special Schools 13,030 — 11,330 Total (including Pre-Primary) 2,940 — 2,880 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 2,900 — 2,870 2002-03 Primary Education 2,530 — 2,570 Secondary Education 3,230 — 3,270 Special Schools 12,820 — 11,780 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 2,950 — 2,960 2003-04 Primary Education 2,750 — 2,750 Secondary Education 3,550 — 3,560 Special Schools 14,050 — 12,720 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 3,230 — 3,200 2004-05 Primary Education 2,910 — 2,900 Secondary Education 3,800 — 3,780 Special Schools 15,110 — 13,200 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 3,450 — 3,390 2005-06 Primary Education 3,150 — 3,120 Secondary Education 4,070 — 4,010 Special Schools 16,430 — 14,280 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 3,720 — 3,630 2006-07 Primary Education 3,360 — 3,250 Secondary Education 4,320 — 4,260 Special Schools 17,480 — 14,530 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 3,950 — 3,820 2007-08 Primary Education 3,580 — 3,440 Secondary Education 4,620 — 4,550 Special Schools 18,650 — 15,440 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 4,210 — 4,070 2008-09 Primary Education 3,780 — 3,630 Secondary Education 4,890 — 4,780 Special Schools 19,790 — 16,860 Total (excluding Pre-primary) 4,460 — 4,280 Notes: 1. The financial information used in the answer to this PQ is taken from the Department’s s52 data collection. 2. 1999-2000 saw a change in data source when the data collection moved from the ROI form collected by CLG to the Section 52 form from the DCSF. 2002-03 saw a further break in the time series following the introduction of Consistent Financial Reporting (CFR) and the associated restructuring of the outturn tables. The change in sources is shown by dotted lines. 3. Pupil numbers include only those pupils attending maintained establishments within each sector and are drawn from the DCSF Annual Schools Census adjusted to be on a financial year basis. 4. Local government reorganisation (LGR) took place during the mid to late 1990’s. 5. Expenditure was not distinguished between the pre-primary and primary sectors until the inception of Section 52 for financial year 1999-2000. 6. School based expenditure in LA maintained nursery schools was not recorded in 2002-03 and comparable figures are not available for 2003-04 onwards. 7. Figures are rounded to the nearest £10. Cash terms figures as reported by local authorities as at 22 February 2010. 1183W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1184W

Schools: Finance Ms Diana R. Johnson: Data on the number of incidents of pupils carrying a dangerous weapon into school are not collected at a national level. Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families when he plans to publish the Schools: Snow and Ice report commissioned by his Department in 2008 on the Dedicated Schools Grant; and if he will make a Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [318886] Children, Schools and Families if he will make an assessment of the extent to which anxiety about Mr. Coaker: The Government launched a review of liability for slipping injuries influenced decisions on the Dedicated Schools Grant in January 2008 and it is school closures during the recent severe weather now nearing its conclusion. We expect to issue a consultation episode. [317508] on the way forward shortly. Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Government do not collect Schools: Fires data on the reasons for which schools close during severe weather, and there is no duty on schools to advise the Government why they closed. Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State The Department’s guidance to schools about planning for Children, Schools and Families what his most for, and responding to severe weather urges them to recent estimate is of the number of new schools not take a proportionate approach, balancing any risks required to fit sprinklers. [318628] arising from less supervision and minor slips and bumps against disruption to pupils’ learning. Mr. Coaker: It is good practice and our expectation that the majority of new schools will include sprinkler Schools: Standards systems. Currently over 70 per cent. of new secondary schools and academies procured under Partnerships for Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Schools arrangements include sprinklers. It is not however Children, Schools and Families how many schools were a legal requirement for schools to be fitted with sprinkler rated good with outstanding features at the most recent systems and we do not hold information on the number point for which inspection data is available. [318481] of new schools not fitted with sprinklers. Mr. Coaker [holding answer 24 February 2010]: This is a matter for Ofsted. HM Chief Inspector, Christine Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Gilbert, has written to the hon. Member and a copy of for Children, Schools and Families what recent her reply has been placed in the Library. representations his Department has received on mandatory installation of fire sprinklers in new Letter from Christine Gilbert, dated 22 February 2010: schools. [318630] Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for response. Ofsted’s rating system is based on only four judgements for Mr. Coaker: On 19 May 2009, my right hon. Friend overall effectiveness where 1 is outstanding; 2 is good; 3 is the Member for Makerfield (Mr. McCartney) led an satisfactory; and 4 is inadequate, Schools are not rated good with adjournment debate on fire safety in schools at which outstanding features. Some inspectors might use this phrase in the this issue was discussed. I subsequently met my hon. text of their reports; we do not hold figures for this. Friend and colleagues on 22 October. We have also Consequently, this response considers maintained schools which received representations from the Chief Fire Officers were judged as good for overall effectiveness at their last inspection Association and the National Fire Sprinkler Network; and where at least one of the other judgements made was outstanding. and parliamentary questions have been asked in the The latest period for which published figures about maintained House of Commons and the House of Lords. school section 5 inspection outcomes are available is the academic year 2008/09. This answer, therefore, takes into account inspections Our policy remains that introduced by my right hon. carried out prior to 1 September 2009. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Jim Knight), At 1 December 2009 there were 22,260 schools open and when he was Schools Minister. In March 2007 he eligible for a section 5 Ofsted inspection. Of these, 21,920 had announced the Government’s policy on sprinklers and received at least one section 5 inspection. These schools, together their value as a measure against arson by saying: with their latest inspection judgements, form the basis for the “It is now our expectation that all new schools will have fire response. sprinklers installed. However, we do not intend to make this a Of the 21,920 schools, 11,033 (50%) were judged as good for compulsory measure. There may be a few cases where local overall effectiveness at the last inspection. Of these, 8,704 (79%) authorities or other promoters of schools consider that sprinklers received at least one judgement of outstanding. are not needed. If so, they will need to be able to demonstrate that A copy of this reply has been sent to Vernon Coaker MP, such schools are low risk and that sprinklers would not represent Minister of State for Schools and Learners, and placed in the good value for money.” library of both Houses.

Schools: Offensive Weapons Schools: Vocational Guidance Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for for Children, Schools and Families what his assessment Children, Schools and Families how many incidents of is of the effectiveness of careers services offered in pupils carrying a dangerous weapon into school were schools; what recent steps he has taken to improve reported in (a) 1997, (b) 2005 and (c) the latest year them; and how much has been spent on them in each for which figures are available. [317820] year since 1997. [318197] 1185W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1186W

Mr. Iain Wright [holding answer 24 February 2010]: Teachers: Pay The best schools, working in partnership with local authority services, provide excellent support for their Mrs. Humble: To ask the Secretary of State for pupils to help them to make decisions about learning Children, Schools and Families what the average salary and careers but the quality across all schools is variable. of a teacher in (a) Blackpool, (b) Lancashire and (c) We published our strategy to improve information, England was in the latest year for which information is advice and guidance (Quality, Choice and Aspiration) available. [319535] in October 2009. Alongside the strategy we published statutory guidance for schools, setting out clear expectations Mr. Coaker: The following table shows the average for the provision of high quality impartial information salary of regular qualified teachers in service in local about learning options, which promotes the best interests authority maintained schools in Blackpool and Lancashire of pupils. local authorities and England, March 2008 the latest The way that provision of careers services has been information available. funded has changed in the period since 1997, with the Average salary of full-time regular qualified teachers in local authority establishment of the Connexions service and, more maintained nursery, primary, secondary, special schools and pupil referral units, recently, local authorities assuming responsibility for January 20081 Coverage: Blackpool and Lancashire local authorities and the provision of information, advice and guidance. Funding England has been provided to Connexions/Careers Services as Average salary (£) set out in the following table: Blackpool 35,100 Lancashire 35,800 Funding (£ million) To: England 35,900 1997-98 192 1Careers services 1 Provisional. Source: 1998-99 210 Careers Services Database of Teacher Records Figures are rounded to the nearest £100. 1999-00 223 Careers Services 2000-01 233 Careers Services Truancy: Salford 2001-02 110 2Connexions 173 Careers Services Hazel Blears: To ask the Secretary of State for 2002-03 337 Connexions Children, Schools and Families what the unauthorised 52 Careers Services absence rate was for pupils in Salford in (a) 1997 and 2003-04 439 Connexions (b) 2009. [317385] 2004-05 458 Connexions 2005-06 464 Connexions Mr. Coaker: The available information is shown in 2006-07 466 Connexions the table for 1996/97 and 2007/08. Information for 2007-08 467 Connexions 2008/09 is expected to be published in spring 2010. 2008-09 469 3Connexions 1, 2, 3 2009-10 467 Connexions Primary, secondary and special schools , percentage of half days missed due to unauthorised absence 1996/97 and 2007/084—Salford parliamentary 1 Prior to 2001, Careers Services provided advice and guidance on careers and constituency related issues 2 From April 2001 Connexions was introduced in a staged way and the Percentage of half days missed due 5 Department provided funding to Connexions Partnerships for the delivery of to unauthorised absence Connexions services for young people. 3 From April 2008 local authorities have received funding for Connexions 1996/97 2.02 services, which advise young people on a range of issues including careers, as part of their Area Based Grant. 2007/08 2.17 Secondary Education 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes maintained secondary schools, city technology colleges and academies Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for (including all-through academies). 3 Includes maintained and non maintained special schools. Excludes general Children, Schools and Families with reference to the hospital schools. answer of 29 October 2009, Official Report, column 4 Figures for 1996/97 have been sourced from the Absence in Schools Survey. 610W, on secondary education, how many schools in Figures for 2007/08 are derived from the School Census. 5 The number of sessions missed due to unauthorised absence expressed as a each (a) region and (b) local authority area there were percentage of the total number of possible sessions. in each category in each year. [318588] Source: Absence in Schools Survey and School Census (see note 4). Ms Diana R. Johnson [holding answer 25 February 2010]: The answer to this question has been placed in Written Questions: Government Responses the Library. Secondary Education: Pupil Numbers Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families pursuant to the answer Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for of 24 February 2010, Official Report, column 650W, on Children, Schools and Families with reference to the Education Maintenance Allowance and the answer answer of 29 October 2009, Official Report, column from the Minister for Further Education, 610W, on secondary education, how many such schools Apprenticeships and Consumer Affairs of 3 December there were in each local authority area in each year. 2009, Official Report, column 987W, on the Learning [318486] and Skills Council for England’s correspondence, if he will review his Department’s processes to ensure that Ms Diana R. Johnson [holding answer 24 February all letters from the Learning and Skills Council in 2010]: The answer to this question has been placed in response to Parliamentary Questions are sent to the the Library. Editor of the Official Report for publication. [319985] 1187W Written Answers2 MARCH 2010 Written Answers 1188W

Mr. Iain Wright: I have reviewed the process for agreed between my Department and the LSC, setting responses to parliamentary questions with the Learning out that responses should be sent to the Editor of the and Skills Council (LSC). Service standards have been Official Report within 10 working days of receipt.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 2 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 781 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— Afghanistan ...... 787 continued Bermuda (Buckfast Prohibition) ...... 790 Piracy (Somalia)...... 794 Energy Security...... 781 Sudan...... 786 Falkland Islands...... 788 Tibet ...... 790 Falkland Islands...... 794 Topical Questions ...... 796 Iran...... 791 UK-Argentina Relations...... 795 Israel-Egypt Frontier ...... 783 Yemen ...... 782 London G20 Summit ...... 784 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 2 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE...... 101WS JUSTICE...... 106WS Household Energy Management...... 101WS Bernard Lodge Inquiry ...... 106WS

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 102WS EU General and Foreign Affairs Councils ...... 102WS TRANSPORT ...... 106WS Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle Licensing...... 106WS HEALTH...... 104WS Urban Challenge Fund ...... 107WS Future of Nursing and Midwifery...... 104WS

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 105WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 108WS Bangladesh Development Forum...... 105WS National Employment Savings Trust...... 108WS PETITIONS

Tuesday 2 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 15P HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Destitution Among Asylum Seekers...... 15P Immigration (Adela Mahoro Mugabo) ...... 17P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 2 March 2010

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 1105W CABINET OFFICE—continued Banks...... 1105W Social Leadership Forum ...... 1098W Cadbury: Fair Trade Initiative...... 1106W Unemployment: Leeds ...... 1098W Departmental Disabled Staff...... 1106W Departmental Written Questions ...... 1107W CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 1163W Music: Copyright...... 1108W Building Schools for the Future Programme ...... 1163W Regional European Offices...... 1108W Building Schools for the Future Programme: Science: Expenditure...... 1108W Birmingham...... 1168W Children: Deaths...... 1169W CABINET OFFICE...... 1091W Citizenship: Essex ...... 1170W Chequers...... 1091W Departmental Consultants...... 1170W Community Infrastructure Levy ...... 1091W Departmental Correspondence ...... 1170W Government Departments: Advertising ...... 1091W Departmental Energy...... 1171W Government Departments: Marketing ...... 1092W Departmental Finance ...... 1171W Government Departments: Public Relations ...... 1092W Departmental Information Officers ...... 1172W Honours...... 1093W Departmental Public Consultation...... 1172W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Leeds...... 1094W Departmental Publications ...... 1172W New Businesses: Leeds...... 1095W Disadvantaged ...... 1172W Pay...... 1096W Free School Meals: Leeds ...... 1173W Personal Income: Essex...... 1096W GCSE ...... 1173W Personal Income: Leeds ...... 1097W GCSE: Gifted Children...... 1174W Population ...... 1097W Home Education: Gloucestershire ...... 1175W Col. No. Col. No. CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES—continued COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— National Curriculum Tests...... 1175W continued Pupils: Per Capita Costs...... 1175W Local Government: Trespass...... 1148W School Choice: Advisory Services ...... 1179W Migration Impact Fund ...... 1148W Schools ...... 1179W Mortgages...... 1151W Schools: Asbestos...... 1179W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 1151W Schools: Crimes of Violence ...... 1180W Multiple Occupation: Planning Permission...... 1151W Schools: Essex...... 1180W Non-Domestic Rates: Ports...... 1152W Schools: Finance...... 1183W Private Rented Housing ...... 1155W Schools: Fires...... 1183W Public Bodies: Finance...... 1155W Schools: Offensive Weapons...... 1183W Regional Development Agencies...... 1155W Schools: Snow and Ice ...... 1184W Regional European Offices...... 1156W Schools: Standards...... 1184W Regional Improvement and Efficiency Schools: Vocational Guidance...... 1184W Partnerships...... 1156W Secondary Education ...... 1185W Regional Planning and Development: Thames Secondary Education: Pupil Numbers ...... 1185W Gateway...... 1157W Teachers: Pay ...... 1186W Rented Housing: Empty Property...... 1158W Truancy: Salford ...... 1186W Sleeping Rough ...... 1159W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 1186W Social Rented Housing: Registration...... 1159W Social Rented Housing: Rents...... 1160W Social Rented Housing: Tenure ...... 1160W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 1126W Social Rented Housing: Waiting Lists ...... 1160W Affordable Housing...... 1126W Standards for England ...... 1161W Affordable Housing: Finance ...... 1127W Supported Housing: Finance ...... 1161W Affordable Housing: Newcastle upon Tyne ...... 1128W Tenancy Deposit Schemes...... 1162W Association of Home Information Pack Providers: Tesco: Planning Permission...... 1162W Finance...... 1129W Working Neighbourhoods Fund ...... 1162W Bullying: Office of the Deputy Prime Minister...... 1129W Community Development: Roehampton...... 1129W Community Infrastructure Levy ...... 1130W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 1004W Council Housing: Finance ...... 1130W Digital Broadcasting: Northern Ireland ...... 1004W Council Housing: Property Transfer ...... 1131W Listed Events Review ...... 1005W Council Housing: Standards ...... 1131W Olympic Games 2012: Culture ...... 1006W Counsellors: Allowances ...... 1132W Public Libraries...... 1006W Departmental Meetings ...... 1132W Disadvantaged: Roehampton...... 1132W DEFENCE...... 1078W Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal ...... 1133W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 1078W Driveways: Planning Permission ...... 1133W Armed Forces ...... 1078W Empty Dwelling Management Orders...... 1134W Armed Forces Compensation Scheme...... 1078W Energy Performance Certificates...... 1134W Armed Forces: Leave ...... 1079W Exeter and Devon (Structural Changes) Order Armed Forces: Pensions...... 1079W 2010 ...... 1134W Armed Forces: Training ...... 1080W Fire Services: Industrial Disputes...... 1135W Armed Forces: Vehicles...... 1081W Floods: Gardens ...... 1136W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 1081W Government Office for London: Expenditure ...... 1136W Atomic Weapons Establishment: Floods...... 1081W Government Office for the East of England: Bomb Disposal ...... 1081W Expenditure ...... 1135W Cadets...... 1082W Government Office for the South West: Chemical Weapons: Animals...... 1082W Expenditure ...... 1136W Defence Nuclear Weapon Regulator ...... 1083W Government Offices for the Regions: Expenditure . 1137W Defence Technology and Innovation Centre ...... 1083W Government Offices for the Regions: Finance...... 1137W Departmental Housing ...... 1084W Government Offices for the Regions: Mass Media . 1137W Departmental Private Finance Initiative ...... 1084W Government Offices for the Regions: Operating Future Large Aircraft ...... 1084W Costs...... 1138W Government Car and Dispatch Agency ...... 1085W Green Belt...... 1139W Iraq and Afghanistan...... 1085W Homes and Communities Agency...... 1139W Military Aircraft: Helicopters ...... 1085W Households: Pensioners ...... 1141W Military Aircraft: Training ...... 1086W Housing ...... 1142W Public Expenditure...... 1087W Housing: Construction...... 1142W Royal Military Academy ...... 1087W Housing: Coventry...... 1142W Royal Naval College...... 1088W Housing: Energy ...... 1143W Service Personnel and Veterans Agency: Housing: Finance...... 1144W Manpower ...... 1089W Housing: Regeneration...... 1144W Type 45 Destroyers...... 1089W Housing: Sales ...... 1144W Housing: Standards ...... 1145W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 1063W Housing: Thames Gateway ...... 1145W British Nuclear Fuels: Pay ...... 1063W Landlords: Registration ...... 1145W Climatic Research Unit ...... 1063W Local Government: Partnerships ...... 1146W Departmental Thefts...... 1063W Local Government: Pensions ...... 1146W Energy: Conservation...... 1063W Local Government: Redundancy Pay...... 1147W Environment Protection: Employment...... 1064W Local Government: Reorganisation ...... 1147W Feed-in Tariffs...... 1064W Local Government: Statistics ...... 1147W Natural Gas :Storage ...... 1064W Col. No. Col. No. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—continued HEALTH—continued Nuclear Power Stations...... 1065W West Dorset General Hospitals Trust...... 1126W Warm Front Scheme ...... 1065W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 1048W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Anti-terrorism Control Orders ...... 1048W AFFAIRS...... 999W Automatic Number Plate Recognition ...... 1048W Agriculture: Subsidies...... 999W Blaydon...... 1049W Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 ...... 1000W Burglary...... 1050W Departmental Paper...... 1000W Control Orders...... 1051W Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal ...... 1001W Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000: Local Government: Statistics ...... 1001W Prosecutions...... 1052W Members: Correspondence ...... 1002W Departmental Advertising...... 1052W Rural Payments Agency: Location ...... 1002W Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 1052W Waste Disposal: EU Action ...... 1003W Deportation ...... 1053W Waste Improvement Network: Finance...... 1003W Deportation: Offenders...... 1053W Drugs: Crime ...... 1053W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 1099W Feltham...... 1054W Burma: Arms Trade ...... 1101W Human Trafficking ...... 1055W Burma: Human Rights...... 1101W Illegal Immigrants: Employment...... 1055W Colombia: Politics and Government ...... 1102W Immigrants ...... 1056W Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda .. 1102W Immigration: Detention Centres ...... 1056W Departmental Air Travel ...... 1102W Members: Correspondence ...... 1056W Diplomatic Service: Manpower...... 1102W Police ...... 1056W EU Budget ...... 1099W Police: Information and Communications Falkland Islands...... 1100W Technology ...... 1060W Gaza ...... 1100W Police: Manpower ...... 1060W Government Hospitality: Wines...... 1103W Police: Pay...... 1060W International Atomic Energy Agency...... 1103W Prisoners: Deportation...... 1061W Iran...... 1100W Sandwell...... 1061W Nuclear Disarmament: Conferences ...... 1103W Telephone Tapping: Newspaper Press ...... 1062W Pakistan ...... 1100W United Kingdom Human Trafficking Centre ...... 1062W Pregnant Women: Burkina Faso ...... 1101W Scientists ...... 1104W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 1006W Southern Africa: AIDS ...... 1104W Members: Expenses ...... 1006W Sri Lanka ...... 1099W Parliament: Energy ...... 1006W Tzipi Livni...... 1099W Uganda: Oil ...... 1105W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 1109W West Bank Checkpoints...... 1099W Afghanistan: Opium ...... 1109W Departmental Theft ...... 1109W Poland: Forestry...... 1110W HEALTH...... 1110W Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse...... 1110W Alcoholic Drinks: Prices ...... 1111W JUSTICE...... 1066W Care Quality Commission...... 1111W Departmental Energy...... 1066W Care Quality Commission: Dorset ...... 1112W Departmental Theft ...... 1066W Dementia: Gloucestershire...... 1113W Ex-Servicemen: Prison ...... 1067W Departmental Advertising...... 1113W Freedom of Information ...... 1068W Derriford Hospital ...... 1114W Juries...... 1068W Diabetes ...... 1114W Juries: Bexley ...... 1069W Health Centres: Christchurch...... 1115W Legal Aid ...... 1071W Health Services: Isle of Man ...... 1115W Probation: Wales...... 1075W Health Services: Milton Keynes ...... 1116W Health Services: Reciprocal Arrangements ...... 1117W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 1090W Health Visitors: Leeds...... 1119W Written Questions ...... 1090W Hip Replacements...... 1119W Home Care Services ...... 1119W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 1004W Hospitals: Gardens ...... 1120W Departmental Energy...... 1004W Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust Inquiry. 1120W Midwives: North West...... 1120W OLYMPICS ...... 1007W Musgrove Park Hospital Taunton...... 1121W Olympic Games: Canada ...... 1007W NHS: Construction...... 1121W NHS: Finance ...... 1121W SCOTLAND...... 1007W NHS: Manpower ...... 1122W Departmental Manpower...... 1007W NHS: Parking ...... 1122W NHS: Public Transport ...... 1123W TRANSPORT ...... 1007W NHS: Sight Impaired ...... 1123W A12: Safety ...... 1007W Nurses: Pay ...... 1123W Aviation: Public Lavatories ...... 1008W Nurses: Schools...... 1124W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 1008W Pyrazinamide and Streptomycin ...... 1124W Bus Services: Greater Manchester...... 1008W Schizophrenia: Drugs...... 1125W Dartford-Thurrock Crossing: Tolls ...... 1009W Supranuclear Palsy...... 1125W Driving Under Influence: Accidents...... 1009W Tranquillisers and Antidepressants ...... 1125W East Coast Railway Line ...... 1009W Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT—continued WOMEN AND EQUALITY—continued EC Transport Policy...... 1010W Departmental Internet ...... 1077W Immobilisation of Vehicles...... 1010W Departmental Sick Leave ...... 1077W Metronet...... 1010W Public Meetings ...... 1077W Parking: Disabled...... 1011W Railways: Overcrowding...... 1011W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 1022W Railways: Rugby ...... 1011W Carers’ Benefits...... 1022W Roads: Snow and Ice...... 1011W Departmental ICT ...... 1023W Stagecoach Group: Judicial Review ...... 1012W Departmental Internet ...... 1023W Tube Lines ...... 1012W Departmental Manpower...... 1023W Vehicles: Registration...... 1012W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 1024W Departmental Public Relations ...... 1025W TREASURY ...... 1013W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 1025W Child Benefit: Glasgow ...... 1013W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 1026W Community Infrastructure Levy ...... 1013W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 1027W Departmental Energy...... 1013W Employment and Support Allowance: Disabled..... 1027W Departmental Pay ...... 1014W Employment Schemes ...... 1028W Departmental Theft ...... 1014W Employment Schemes: Females ...... 1028W Empty Property ...... 1014W Employment Schemes: Young People...... 1028W Excise Duties: Alcoholic Drinks...... 1015W Employment: Scotland...... 1029W Government Departments: Carbon Emissions...... 1015W Future Jobs Fund...... 1029W Inheritance Tax: Dundee...... 1015W Incapacity Benefit ...... 1030W Inheritance Tax: Housing...... 1015W Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit...... 1030W Inheritance Tax: Leeds...... 1015W Jobcentre Plus: Expenditure...... 1031W Insurance: Buildings ...... 1016W Jobseeker’s Allowance ...... 1031W Leave...... 1016W New Deal for Lone Parents...... 1031W Non-Domestic Rates: Garages and Petrol New Deal for Partners ...... 1033W Stations:...... 1017W Pathways to Work ...... 1034W Non-Domestic Rates: Retail Trade ...... 1018W Pathways to Work: Feltham ...... 1035W Pension Credit: Leeds ...... 1017W Pensioners: Poverty ...... 1035W Revenue and Customs: Surveillance...... 1018W Pensioners: Social Security Benefits ...... 1036W Stamp Duty Land Tax ...... 1019W Self-employed ...... 1037W Tax Allowances...... 1019W Snow and Ice...... 1037W Taxation...... 1020W Social Security Benefits...... 1038W Taxation: Business ...... 1020W Social Security Benefits: Alcoholic Drinks...... 1039W Valuation Office Agency: Internet...... 1020W Social Security Benefits: Armed Forces...... 1039W Valuation Office Agency: Manpower ...... 1020W Social Security Benefits: Departmental Valuation Office Agency: North East...... 1021W Coordination ...... 1040W VAT: Local Government ...... 1021W Social Security Benefits: Drugs ...... 1040W Welfare Tax Credits: Aberdeenshire ...... 1021W Social Security Benefits: Employment...... 1041W Welfare Tax Credits: Glasgow...... 1021W Social Security Benefits: Fibromyalgia...... 1041W Welfare Tax Credits: Na h-Eileanan an Iar ...... 1022W Social Security Benefits: Na h-Eileanan an Iar...... 1041W Social Security Benefits: Obesity...... 1042W WALES...... 1065W State Retirement Pensions...... 1044W Future Jobs Fund: Wales ...... 1065W Unemployment Benefits...... 1045W Unemployment: Parents...... 1047W WOMEN AND EQUALITY ...... 1077W Work Capability Assessment...... 1047W Departmental Energy...... 1077W Work Capability Assessment: Parkinson’s Disease. 1048W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Tuesday 2 March 2010

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 781] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs

Major Capital Contracts (Skills Training Requirements) [Col. 805] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(John Mann)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill (Money) (No. 4) [Col. 808] Motion—(Mr. Straw)—on a Division, agreed to

Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill (Programme) (No. 6) [Col. 815] Motion—(Mr. Straw)—on a Division, agreed to

Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill [Col. 829] As amended, considered; read the Third time and passed

Licences and Licensing [Col. 915] Motion—(Mr. Heppell); Division deferred until Wednesday 3 March

Petitions [Col. 916]

Porton Down [Col. 918] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Housing (London) [Col. 179WH] Norfolk, Suffolk and Devon (Local Government) [Col. 205WH] No-Fault Liability Scheme (Miners’ Knee) [Col. 230WH] NHS Expenditure (Reduction) [Col. 237WH] Peripheral Arterial Disease [Col. 245WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 101WS]

Petitions [Col. 15P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 999W] [see index inside back page]