Most Reverend Anthony Michael Pilla, President, U.S

Click here for Full Issue of Fidelio Volume 5, Number 4, Winter 1996 INTERVIEWS Most Reverend Anthony Michael Pilla, President, U.S. National Conference of Catholic Bishops ‘We don’t believe in future life, we believe in eternal life—and we’re already experiencing it’

Bishop Anthony Pilla was elected president act in the present. It’s very of the National Conference of Catholic important to focus in the Bishops in November 1995, after having present moment, rejoice served as vice-president for the previous in the present moment. three years. As president, he presides over The reality we see is the the meetings of the Bishops, over the present day, but that is not administrative committee for the confer- the whole reality. ence, is chairman of the executive committee, and gives oversight to the staff of the Fidelio: Pope John Paul, National Conference of Catholic Bish- in the letter, says, the pre- ops/United States Catholic Conference in sent is a “plan for the Washington, D.C. fullness of time, to unite Bishop Pilla was born in 1932, and was all things in Him, things ordained to the priesthood in 1959. In June in Heaven and things on 1979, Pope John Paul II announced his Earth. . . . Christ is the choice of Rev. Pilla as Titular Bishop of Alpha and the Omega.” Scardona and Auxiliary Bishop of Cleve- Bishop Pilla: The Holy land, Ohio, and in January 1981, he was Father, in raising the the- installed as the Ninth Bishop of Cleveland. Bishop Pilla was interviewed for Fidelio by Nina Ogden at the National Lay Forum Jesus made it pretty clear: in Cleveland, Ohio, which was sponsored by You don’t love God, if the National Conference of Catholic Bish- ops Committee on the Laity. The interview you don’t love your was conducted on October 11. A previous brothers and sisters. . . . interview with Bishop Pilla appeared in the What are we doing to Spring 1996 issue of Fidelio. bring about justice? What Fidelio: In the same issue of Fidelio, in are we doing to eradicate which this interview will appear, we poverty? Are we making There’s no question about the triumph examine the question of “time reversal.” of the Gospel, but in each moment our In re-reading the Pope’s Apostolic Let- a difference? Or, do we perspective is very important. That’s ter, “Toward the Third Millennium,” I buy all the rhetoric, that very key, very key—because you’re talk- became aware that John Paul situated every poor person is a ing about eternal reality here. We’re just the Jubilee in this context, of the future one part of that, but it’s the whole thing acting on the present. He wrote: “Speak- ‘welfare junkie,’ and all that we’re engaged in; and we have our ing of the birth of the Son of God, St. that nonsense? part to play in the whole salvation histo- Paul places this event in the ‘fullness of ry, and our part is very important. time.’ Time is indeed fulfilled by the We’re part of that, because Christ is sal- very fact that God, in the Incarnation, ological point of view—that’s an eternal vation and participating in the whole came down into human history.” perspective. It’s unity, all One. We expe- salvific event is what’s tremendous here. Bishop Pilla: The future shapes our pre- rience it sequentially. We should always So nothing is really insignificant; every- sent lives. The danger is to live in the have a vision of the eternal, or the unity thing we do is “big stuff,” cumulatively, future, thinking that you don’t have to of time. That’s where hope is based. in the mystical body. The Pope is so pro-

© 1996 Schiller Institute, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission strictly prohibited. found and so poetic—that’s what he’s talking about—, and he’s very conscious of his role, and he wants us to be con- They accuse us of being hysterical about ‘the slippery scious of our own. slope.’ Well, it is a slippery slope. . . . Who’s going to make It’s not such a complicated thing; it’s these decisions? Will they kill the elderly? The the root of responsibility. By identifying handicapped? People who are not in their peer group? Once Christ present in our life now, we are in the future, in a sense. We’re already you establish this principle, where does it end? We’ve seen there, because we don’t believe in future that historically. We must be opposed to these things. life, we believe in eternal life; and we’re already experiencing it in ways that are very important. So, we don’t have to wait; we experience eternal life now. the concept of this legislation and apply could about it. If it’s true, I don’t know Heaven is a fulfillment of this. We don’t it to the realities of our time: Africa, the how you justify it; that’s expediency at have to wait for some ideal Church, as Third World debt, and the terrible its worst. Can you justify all that by some people do. We don’t have to be sad oppression it’s causing, and the violence. national interest? The national interest and grumpy, waiting for something We focus on those tragic situations. And must involve the whole society. What ideal; we can rejoice. look at our urban situation. This is about the people victimized by drugs? where we have to be careful that it’s not Shouldn’t there be complementarity Fidelio: I thought it was crucial that he something simply theoretical. How does between the needs of people, foreign developed time in this way. this reality inform our situation? That policy, and national interest? And what Bishop Pilla: That’s why he set the theology has to inform our behavior. about the integrity of our government? focus in the first year on the Incarna- How does this impact on our behavior, tion. Unless you understand the Incar- so that our behavior is Christ-like. Fidelio: There are growing calls for nation—Christ assumed human form We have to be very careful because, investigation. as a slave—you would miss the whole sometimes, religion is a way of rational- Bishop Pilla: We are in the forefront of thing. That was Christ’s role in his izing away our responsibility: “I had most issues concerning justice. We human existence: to put us in touch this encounter with Jesus and I’m haven’t been invited to investigate, with the divine. There’s always the O.K.” Well, that’s not what the Gospel because of the tradition in the U.S. of Trinitarian reality there: through Christ says. The vertical has to be comple- the “separation of Church and state.” we are in touch with the unifying mys- mented by the horizontal, otherwise it’s There’s reluctance to have the Church tery of God. not true Gospel, in our tradition. Jesus involved in any such role, lest that prin- made that pretty clear: You don’t love ciple be violated. Not that I agree with Fidelio: John Paul says, “Against this God, if you don’t love your brothers that. Churches should be involved in background we can understand the cus- and sisters. So we were talking in very civil affairs, without having to be part of tom of the Jubilee. ... In the sabbatical deep terms, initially, about the Incarna- the government. The Church will get year [every seventh year—Ed.], in addi- tion, but the proof of the pudding now, involved in this vital question. We will tion to the freeing of slaves, the Law also is how that is lived out in these issues. say something about this. We’re con- provided for the cancellation of debts in What are we doing to make for less cerned. If we would be asked to investi- accordance with precise regulations. violence? What are we doing to bring gate, we would want to do that. And all this was done for the Glory of about justice? What are we doing to God. What was true for the sabbatical eradicate poverty? And you must ask, Fidelio: The last time I interviewed year was also true for the jubilee year, what can you do, and what are you you, I asked about the Pope’s call for a which fell every fifty years. In the doing? Are we getting involved? Are Synod for the Americas. The Latin jubilee year, however, the customs of the we making a difference? Or, do we buy American bishops have, of course, sabbatical year were broadened.” He all the rhetoric, you know, that every repeatedly called for debt relief. speaks very specifically about “reducing poor person is a “welfare junkie,” and Bishop Pilla: That’s what’s being significantly, if not cancelling outright, all that nonsense? worked on now. We’re involved in the the international debt which seriously process now. The discussion is in two threatens the future of many nations.” Fidelio: I wanted to ask a specific ques- parts. One is evangelization: How can He, of course, talks about Paul VI’s Pop- tion, along those lines, about the scandal we make the Church more present to ulorum Progressio, and that “develop- that the crack-cocaine epidemic emanat- her people, and share it with others? ment is the new name for peace.” This ed from the White House Special Situa- The other part is economic and social brings to mind Bosnia, Northern Ire- tion Group responsible for Iran-Contra. justice. We’re discussing what we can do land, the Middle East, and the situation Bishop Pilla: I don’t totally know where in our political contexts to alleviate some in the entire Third World. the truth lies. I’m not privy to all the of the injustice. This will come out in Bishop Pilla: Of course, we must take information. I’ve read everything I the final working group.

84 they are issues, and to ignore these other issues because one is primary, is doing a disservice to the Gospel—because the Gospel speaks of all of it. And should we not talk about parts of the Gospel?

Fidelio: The Schiller Institute is addressing the questions of cuts in health care, and assisted suicide, and social security, by the Nuremberg Code criteria: as dangerous crimes against humanity. Bishop Pilla: That’s tremendous. Basi- cally, going back to what we’ve said: Whose province is this, humanity’s or God’s? These are dangerous precedents here. They always accuse us of being hysterical about “the slippery slope.” Well, it is a slippery slope, and we’d bet- ter stop it now, or the crimes you’re talking about will become more and more possible. Who’s going to make these decisions? Will In the U.S., when you talk they kill the elderly? The hand- Fidelio: Which is scheduled sometime about choice, about icapped? People who are not in soon, I believe? individualism, this is a high their peer group? Once you Bishop Pilla: Sometime after April. establish this principle, where value. In the current climate, does it end? We’ve seen that. Fidelio: I want to read you something a use the words ‘family values,’ We’ve seen it historically. Once particular Congressman said criticizing and it makes it all acceptable. established, it goes to places you the excellent statement the National Are these really family values, may not want it to go, nor Conference of Bishops issued on politi- should it go. We must be cal responsibility last year. This Con- or something we would opposed to these things. gressman published an essay stating, “I normally reject, couched in a Going back to your other must take respectful exception to a for- way to make it more question: Sometimes when peo- mulation in the United States Catholic ple say that the Bishops do or Conference’s new statement on political acceptable? It’s packaging, it’s don’t do things, what they real- responsibility in the forthcoming elec- the modern media, it’s spin ly mean is, we don’t do it the tion year. Speaking in the name of the control. way they want to do it. That Bishops, the conference document says doesn’t mean we’re wrong. We this: ‘We stand with the unborn and the may differ, but it doesn’t neces- undocumented when the politicians sarily mean we’re wrong. We’re seem to be abandoning them. We statement. . . . I’m afraid this is more noted for our pro-life stand, and criti- defend children in the womb and on than a mere stylistic difference of opin- cized for being so focussed on it, and so welfare. We oppose the violence of abor- ion: it’s an affirmation of the seamless- forth. We are not the enemy. We ought tion and the vengeance of capital pun- garment metaphor which is based on, in to focus on other people. Don’t make the ishment.’ ” my opinion, an unwarranted moral Bishops and the Church’s authority the Bishop Pilla: He’s in opposition? Why? equivalence.” enemy. Our enemies rejoice in this. It Bishop Pilla: The Bishops are not talk- doesn’t help the cause by saying the Fidelio: He says, “I’ll leave the sub- ing about the particulars of equivalence. Bishops aren’t doing it right—our ene- stance of the issues of immigration They’re talking about things that are mies love that. reform, welfare reform, and capital basic and fundamental. Your integrity punishment for another day. They are about all life issues is important here. Fidelio: The economist who won the important issues; they are controversial. You have to change people’s minds. We Nobel Prize in 1992, Gary Becker, has But I do regret the suggestion of moral are concerned about the right to all of spoken on several occasions at forums equivalence contained in the form of life. I don’t think the Bishops have ever sponsored by the Pontifical Academy the United States Catholic Conference said anything about equal issues. But on the Family. He uses the buzz words

85 “family values.” He is a protégé of Mil- Most Reverend Howard J. Hubbard, ton Friedman at the Chicago School of Economics. He believes in the legaliza- Bishop of Albany, N.Y. tion of drugs for the “free market.” He was in Argentina recently, talking about privatizing pensions, social security, and infrastructure: the Conserva- ‘I’m emphasizing the sacredness tive Revolution agenda. How can he say he’s for family values with that agenda? Bishop Pilla: Because that’s what makes of all aspects of human life’ it work. “Buzz words” is right! Words turned inside out. That’s why people Bishop Howard J. Hubbard, who was who support abortion say they’re “pro- born in Troy, N.Y. in 1938, was ordained The ‘Catholic Alliance’ stated choice.” They couch it in those terms to to the priesthood in Rome, Italy in 1963 make it more acceptable, and people fall and became the ninth Roman Catholic its purpose as representing the for rhetoric. In the U.S., when you talk Bishop of Albany, New York in 1977. Catholic community before the about choice, this is a high value. Talk Soon after he became a priest, he co- Congress, state legislatures, about individualism—high value. See? founded the Hope House Drug Rehabilita- and local political bodies, and I And now, in the current climate, use the tion facility, which now, thirty years later, words “family values,” and it makes it services eight thousand people yearly in res- thought that would sow great all acceptable. idential, outpatient, community, and confusion. I was also You have to listen to what is being school-based programs. concerned about the Catholic said. Are these really family values, or When capital punishment was reinstat- something we would normally reject, ed in New York State in 1994, the Bishop faithful, who would think that couched in a way to make it more helped organize “New Yorkers Against the this material could represent the acceptable? It’s packaging, it’s the mod- Death Penalty” and he now serves as its social doctrine of the Church. ern media, it’s spin control. It’s clever, president. He is active in many other civic but you’ve got to be careful. Then, they projects, and is the president of the Urban won’t get away with it. League of Albany. Bishop Hubbard is the chairman of the scorecard. I was also disturbed by the Fidelio: Could he use the institutions of Public Policy Committee of the N.Y. intentional manipulation in the litera- the Catholic Church to become an Catholic Conference and, among his ture, which implied that the Alliance American spokesman for these things? national responsibilities, serves on the spoke for the Holy Father and was offi- Bishop Pilla: The Bishops Conference Social Policy and World Peace Committee cially “Catholic.” The organization stat- speaks for the Bishops; nobody else. of the U.S. Catholic Conference and the ed its purpose as representing the Committee on the Laity of the National Catholic community before the Con- Fidelio: The title of the 1996 National Conference of Catholic Bishops. gress, state legislatures, and local politi- Lay Forum is, “Crossing the Threshold This interview was conducted for Fide- cal bodies, and I thought that would with Hope.” lio by Nina Ogden on Oct. 12, in Cleve- sow great confusion among those bod- Bishop Pilla: And these are real issues land, Ohio at the National Lay Forum ies. I was also concerned about the con- that you bring up. They are complex, sponsored by the National Conference of fusion created among the Catholic and, in the course of one interview, we Catholic Bishops. faithful, who would somehow think certainly can’t resolve all these things. I that this material could represent the keep going back to who we are: I am at Fidelio: Bishop Hubbard, you social doctrine of the Church. The Bish- peace and I have confidence, not because addressed an executive session of the ops Conference had published a very I have all the answers, but because I U.S. Bishops Conference last fall, to carefully thought out statement on trust in a good and loving God, made so raise your concerns about the organiza- political responsibility (“Political clear to me in the life of Jesus Christ; tion called the Catholic Alliance, which Responsibility, Proclaiming the Gospel and He said, that victory is assured for was started by the Christian Coalition. of Life, Protecting the Least Among Us, those who believe and persevere, and I Why did you raise this issue? and Pursuing the Common Good”). take that at its word. So, for me, the suf- Bishop Hubbard: I received literature Our statement cuts across political and fering isn’t meaningless—it isn’t just from them right following our Holy ideological lines. Its strongest character- pain, it’s redemptive. Somehow my con- Father left the U.S. after his trip here istic is its consistent advocacy for the tinued efforts, despite failure, despite last October. I found much of this liter- dignity and sacredness of all human life, pain, are adding to that whole salvific ature extremely disturbing, especially at every stage of human life. The mater- effort—just as His was. the partisan tone and the blatant ial I received was absolutely at variance Fidelio: Thank you, Bishop Pilla. untruths of the Alliance’s Congressional with that statement.