2013 SENATE GOVERNMENT AND VETERANS AFFAIRS

SB 2344 2013 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee Missouri River Room, State Capitol SB 2344 02/07/2013 Job Number 18476

D Conference Committee

Committee Clerk Signature

Explanation or reason for introduction of bill/resolution:

A Bill for an Act to provide an appropriation for training service dogs; and to provide a legislative management study.

Minutes:

Chairman Dever: Opened the hearing on SB 2344.

Senator Sorvaag, District 45: Testified as sponsor of the bill and to explain the bill.

(1 :40)Chairman Dever: I am curious what the intention is with the service dogs, is it to provide a service dog to a person?

Senator Sorvaag: That would be my understanding but I would wa it for more testimony for more details.

Chairman Dever: Do you know how many veterans you would serve for $50,000?

Senator Sorvaag: I do not.

(2:40) Senator Miller, District 10: See Attachments #1A and #18 for testimony as sponsor and in support of the bill. (Gave a personal experience)

(9:40)Chairman Dever: If 35% of our veterans sufferfrom PTSD than three dogs seems to be coming up well short.

Senator Miller: It would be a lot better if we could do more but it is the capacity of how fast they can get them trained. It is a pilot in a sense. Let's get it started and see what we can do, and hopefully we can do more at another time. Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 2

Chairman Dever: You mentioned a VA Grant. Do you know any more about that?

Senator Miller: No. From my constituents special instance, she got hers paid for somehow but she indicated to me that it was a special consideration and not the norm.

Chairman Dever: I recognize the problem and it seems to me that when a person joins the military and goes overseas and fights for our country that the federal government has a responsibility to deal with any situation that comes about as a result of that service.

Senator Miller: Absolutely.

(1 1 :36) Brenda Bergsrud, North Dakota Department of Veterans Affairs: Testified in support of the bill. I travel the entire state as the coordinator and I want to tell you my personal feelings on this bill. We have so many young veterans that come back and suffer from PTSD and they do not want to take the medications. They don't want pills thrown at them and that is typically what our federal VA does do in all honesty. We need to find some alternative therapies to that. I have seen firsthand what these dogs can do. I agree that three a year is not enough, but we also need to help our younger veterans that do not want to take the medications and want the alternative therapies. The federal VA is starting to support this and pay for the dogs. I understand that the dogs are very expensive but if they save a life, that life is worth it. We just had a 22 year old family friend that just committed suicide, and he shot himself with a 12 gauge shotgun and I wonder if he had of had the opportunity to have some alternative therapies, if that would have worked. He refused to take his medication.

(1 3:48) Chairman Dever: What kind of treatment there is out there for PTSD?

Brenda Bergsrud: Drugs and counseling services. I have to complement our federal VA system with that. They have the vet centers which are designed for counseling for combat veterans specifically. There are the counselors at the VA medical centers and we are Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 3 working with them more. We have had some meetings and lots of supportfrom the veteran's organizations with our state being so rural. There needs to be more out-based counseling to the communities. Typically they want to give them medication. There is a yoga program in Fargo as well.

Chairman Dever: To what extent have we succeeded in removing the stigma of PTSD?

Brenda Bergsrud: That is a tricky question. I think that we are reaching more of our younger veterans with it because of a generation issue, but I think that we still are not reaching our Vietnam era veterans and older because of the stigma.

Vice Chairman Berry: Are there any results of studies that have been done with PTSD?

Brenda Bergsrud: There is a decline.

(13:22) Shelley Nannenga, Development Director, Service Dogs for America:

Testified in support of the bill. (Demonstrates service dog) We started in 1989 and we have placements every year and within those placements we usually have a � of those placements are vets and we are seeing the older vet verses the younger vet. We have 4 types of dogs and we do have a dog that is for psychological and PTSD; it is kind of a therapy dog.

(18:18) Vice Chairman Berry: You mentioned that there are different dogs for different disabilities or challenges; can you explain to me the different breeds and what they bring?

Shelley Nannenga: We primarily breed labs and golden retrievers mostly because of their patience; loyalty and they are just easier. To train a dog usually takes about 2 to 2% years. It would be for mobility needs, a seizure dog or low level diabetics, therapy, and autism dogs - they take 2 %to 3 years for those. They are so smart and have an ability to read the people. I am fairly new to the organization, but the stories that I have are really interesting and lifesaving. We are located in Judd, North Dakota and we have 35 to 40 Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 4 dogs. We also have a wonderful program, the Inmate Canine Assistant Dog program that where we use inmates from the James River Correctional Center to help train the dogs.

They keep the cost down. A dog costs us between $20,000 and $25,000 depending on the vet bill and the specialty training. We charge about $15,000 for a client to get a dog. I would like make it possible for people to not have to pay for a dog. It is an expense that is difficult for some.

Senator Nelson: Several years ago we had a couple of bills to allow dogs to go into restaurants and other places to get the feeling of real life.

Shelley Nannenga: Thank you for doing that.

Senator Nelson: Do you help law enforcement train their dogs or do they train their own?

Shelley Nannenga: They are a different type of dog and a differentreg iment. I will let

Randall talk a little more about that. They have the basic five, which is what they all learn.

That bill made all the differencefo r us in training and our client's independence.

Senator Nelson: Our pastor's son is autistic and he has a service dog, I think he got it in

Omaha.

Shelley Nannenga: We are looking at our program and we are thinking that we need more so we are going for training.

Senator Nelson: Are the dogs trained for a specific person or type of person?

Shelley Nannenga: Yes that is more or less what it is. In the time of training we pick a client and we ask specific questions to match the dog with the person and then we specialize the dog to their needs. We have a long waiting list.

Senator Nelson: H w long does the client come for training?

Shelley Nannenga: They come for 3 weeks, but we are making changes to that. We are having them come sooner and acclimate to the dog and then come back for the rest. They Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page5 have to learn the commands at home. We promise that this is for the life of the dog. We are with that team until the dog has passed. We have to make sure the training is consistent. We have a relationship that is built on. Usually a dog can last 10 to 13 years.

It depends on the needs and the environment they are in. We promise that we will be there and continue to educate. We want them to continue to be independent.

Senator Nelson: What if the person passes?

Shelley Nannenga: We hope that we will get the dog back and be able to use that dog; it depends on how many years that dog has left. It doesn't happen very often.

Senator Nelson: We read about the one that came back from Iraq that wanted to bring his dog and all of the red tape he went through.

Shelley Nannenga: I want to share stories of the vets that we have formed teams with.

They are the older vets in their 30's and 40's. They don't want to depend on meds, they want an alternative. They want choices. The yoga is relaxing but a service dog is therapeutic and it is just when the dog looks at you he can read your mind ... he knows who you are. If you have that dog long enough, he knows what your next step is. That is what they need. I can tell stories, I just don't know if I can get through them, on how a dog has changed someone's life and how they have stopped a suicide. There was a young man that was going to commit suicide. He had gotten in his car and he brought his dog with him and he took one last look at the dog and that dog looked back at him and he knew he could not go th rough with it because of the dog. I do not have all the numbers and I apologize for that. The suicides in even just North Dakota, it doesn't need to be. If we can just find a way, no matter what need it is, we just need to stop it. I hear this from my son that served in Iraq, my brother in Vietnam, and my dad in Korea. They all had bits and pieces of that war that came back to them and maybe they couldn't share it or they weren't supposed to Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 6 share it, but they had to find a way to move forward and to live life ... please give them that chance and pass this bill.

Chairman Dever: Are you familiar with the federal VA is doing?

Shelley Nannenga: Yes I am. Randall has more information for you.

(30:50) Randall Pike, Vice President for Service Dogs for America, Veteran with

PTSD: I am a veteran and suffer from PTSD and I am on medication. I can assure you that having these very capable dogs to deal with the emotional disorders of our veterans as they are coming back from the war zones. Even those that are not, but the specifics of their job duties are very strenuous. I have spent the last 30 years in the medical field, currently I am working for the Air Force in civil service. I am the medical standards management element. Every person that comes on or off the base, I review their medical records and make sure they are getting the quality care they deserve. If they are not, I make sure they get what they need. They don't leave Grand Forks without being ready to hit the ground and be fully equipped with what they need physically and emotionally. I am also the Vice President for Service Dogs for America. It is one of the most rewarding things

I have ever done. I had a situation where we had a recluse that could not leave the house because of PTSD and she was able to get a dog. She could not leave the house until she got the dog, and she now goes out and shops and interacts socially. She has a life again.

These dogs can take you where you need to go and get you th rough your everyday life.

They keep you safe. We have dogs that have helped someone in a-fibrillation or going into v-tac and the dog lays their head on their chest and the heart rate decreases. The dog calms them down and it helps them to go back into a normal sinus rhythm. It is not only greater independence but they are also a companion. These dogs offer the safety net by protecting you and being by your side. In regards to the inmates, what better therapy than Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 7 to give an inmate the ability to be productive and to have a job when they get out knowing that they are trained to work for service dogs and be productive in society. The personal confidence level in these prisoners' changes 180 degrees and they are putting out really great dogs. Service Dogs for America is currently certified by Assistance Dogs

International, they hold the national standard for service dogs across the nation.

Eventually, believe the VA will have to come onboard with not only providing dogs but other means of serving our veterans. The doges have a healing effect and you can go to these places and witness that for yourself. Our service dogs are some of the few that are trained and can deal with many different disabilities. You don't see a lot of dogs that are dual purpose trained dogs. There should be more. In working with the Air Force currently, I am witness to a lot of the potential suicides and actual suicides that are going on. Obviously we cannot talk much about that. You see in the papers that the suicide rates are increasing dramatically. Our service members need help. We are working with one of the universities in gathering statistics and data on assistance dogs working with PTSD on veterans specifically. I think it is UNO, but I am not sure. The main thing is to make sure that the dogs and the organizations that are providing the dogs are qualified. Granted there are stories out there that the dogs have not met the standards, but I believe that with these certifications and with meeting these standards, we would definitely benefit.

(42:20) Chairman Dever: I am curious if it is necessary to have one dog for one veteran or if you have any kind of a dog that can be used for group therapy?

Shelley Nannenga: We are working with the VA in developing a group therapy along with the dog. We are working on a lot of different ways and programs that we can help vets that they may not own a dog. It is acclimating that individual within that group setting. A dog will actually go right to the person that they feel needs them most. The dog finds the Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 8 individuals. We want to work in that group setting and then maybe they will meet a dog that they need on a daily basis.

Randall Pike: One of the Colonels that I work for has an assistance dog for his child and we are working with the Grand Forks security forces to have them work with us to help train our dogs. Not in the way they train their dogs but we would train them to be able to volunteer and train dogs so that we can provide more dogs and qualify these service members they can start their own programs and train dogs as well.

(45:20) Steven Volk, State Commander, Veterans of Foreign Wars of North Dakota:

Testified in support of the Bill.

Gary Maddock, North Dakota Veterans Coordinating Council: Testified in support of the bill. We voted unanimously to support the bill.

Chairman Dever: Closed the hearing on SB 2344. 2013 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee Missouri River Room, State Capitol

SB 2344 02/08/2013 Job Number 18592

D Conference Committee

Committee Clerk Signature

Minutes:

Chairman Dever: Opened SB 2344 for committee discussion. See Attachment #1 for amendment proposed.

Senator Nelson: Moved Amendment 13.0858.01001.

Senator Poolman: Seconded.

A Roll Call Vote Was Taken: 7 yeas, 0 nays, 0 absent.

Senator Schaible: Moved a Do Pass As Amended and Re-Refer to Appropriations.

Senator Poolman: Seconded.

A Roll Call Vote Was Taken: 7 yeas, 0 nays, 0 absent.

Vice Chairman Berry: Carrier. 13.0 85801001. Adopted by the Government and Veterans Title.0 2000 Affairs Committee February 8, 2013

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO SENATE BILL NO. 2344

Page1, line13, after the period insert"T he legislative management shall consider studying current state and federal benefits available to North Dakota veterans."

Renumber accordingly

Page No.1 Date: __:2.-J-% -f:.l-----

Roll Call Vote#: /

2013 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES BILL/RESOLUTION NO. /).jc/_� Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee

0 Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council Amendment Number ·

Action Taken: 0 Do Pass 0 Do Not Pass D Amended )ZrAdopt Amendment D Rerefer to Appropriations D Reconsider

Motion Made By �a:6r/ldSt:za Seconded By � �

Senators Yes No Senator Yes No Chariman Dick Dever v Senator Carolyn Nelson / Vice Chairman Spencer Berry v Senator Richard Marcellais v Senator Dwight Cook / Senator Donald Schaible V, Senator Nicole Poolman �

Total (Yes) rj No . 0 Absent D

Floor Assignment

. If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: --' __ Date: ----;;)-j�'---4'-f Roll Call Vote#: -�2;.c::;::___

2013 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES

BILL/RESOLUTION NO. {)3<-fc/

Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

· Legislative Council Amendment Number · · Action Taken: Do Pass D Do Not Pass �Amended 0 Adopt Amendment 9 . Rerefer to. A propriations D Reconsider

Motion Made Bt�� Seconded By £,a.hLjJ tJZI n7c:W'v

Senators Yes No Senator Yes No Chariman Dick Dever / Senator Carolyn Nelson /" Vice Chairman Spencer Berry / Senator Richard Marcellais / Senator Dwight Cook ./ Senator Donald Schaible �/ Senator Nicole Poolman /

Total (Yes) No _ _·12�------_D______

Floor Assignment

If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Com Standing Committee Report Module ID: s_stcomrep_25_010 February 11, 2013 9:02am Carrier: Berry Insert LC: 13.0858.01001 Title: 02000

REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE SB 2344: Government and Veterans Affairs Committee (Sen. Dever, Chairman) recommends AMENDMENTS AS FOLLOWS and when so amended, recommends DO PASS and BE REREFERRED to the Appropriations Committee (7 YEAS, 0 NAYS, 0 ABSENT AND NOT VOTING). SB 2344 was placed on the Sixth order on the calendar.

Page 1, line 1 3, after the period insert "The legislative management shall consider studying current state and federal benefits availab le to North Dakota veterans."

Renumber accordingly

(1) DESK (3) COMMITTEE Page 1 s_stcomrep_25_010 2013 SENATE APPROPRIATIONS

SB 2344 2013 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

Senate Appropriations Committee Harvest Room, State Capitol

SB 2344 February 14, 201 3 Job # 18999

D Conference Committee

Committee Clerk Signature

Explanation or reason for introduction of bill/resolution:

A BILL for an Act to provide an appropriation for training service dogs; and to provide for a legislative management study.

Minutes: Testimony attached# 1

Legislative Council - Brittani Reim OMB - Sheila Peterson

Chairman Holmberg opened the hearing on SB 2344.

Senator Sorvaag testified in favor of SB 2344. It has two parts. (1 ) A legislative management study and (2) An appropriation of $50,000 for the training of service dogs to assist NO veterans with PTSO (post-traumatic stress disorder).

Chairman Holmberg They made a minor change in the language. Are you happy with it?

Sen. Sorvaag I am.

Senator Dick Dever, Chairman, Government of Veterans Affairs, testified in favor of SB 2344. This bill was heard in the GVA committee. There is one location in NO that I am aware of that trains service dogs and I'm not sure if this money would go directly to them. Two years can be spent training a dog and as part of that process that dog could be trained specifically for a person to become a companion of. The conversation was about three dogs at· about $1 5,000 each, fully trained and assigned to an individual. I asked if they trained for group therapy and they said they do that. It's something that the veteran's affairs could target in the best way so it might be helpful to more people. The only amendment would be to do a study.

Chairman Holmberg How would it be determined, when dogs are trained, who would get them?

Sen. Dever The Veterans' Affairs would decide. My hope would be that they be placed where they do the most good. Senate Appropriations Committee SB 2344 February 14, 2013 Page 2

V. Chairman Bowman Has there been any data that backs this up that the companion can take away part of the pressure.

Sen.Dever: They talked in terms of averting what could be disasters or depressions. They showed us examples of how dogs intervened in serious situations.

Senator Erbele The money would flow from here to the Dept. of Veterans Affairs and they would then contract with the service dog provider. Are there any other service dog trainers?

Sen. Dever: That's not specific in the bill. They say they only train three dogs at a time and they'd have to contract with whoever would provide the dogs that fit their needs. There are surrounding states that train dogs.

Senator Carlisle Wasn't there a training facility in Jud?

Senator Erbele There was but now it's in Senator Wanzek's.

Brenda Bergsrud, Women and Minority Veteran's Coordinator for the State. Testified in favor of SB 2344 (7:00) She pointed out that ND needs to continue to support alternative therapies.

V.Chairman Bowman: I don't remember a bill like this coming before us.

(8:57) John Jacobsen, North Dakota Veterans Coordinating Council American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars member Testified in favor of SB 2344 Testimony attached # 1

(9:46) Steve Volk, State Commander, Veterans of Foreign Wars Testified in favor of SB 2344 He described a vet who was considering suicide, but a service dog prevented him from doing it.

V.Chairman Bowman moved Do Pass on 58 2344.

Senator Carlisle seconded the motion.

A roll call vote was taken. Yea: 11 Nay: 0 Absent: 2

Senator Berry will carry it on the floor. Date: o1. • 1¥- 13

Roll Call Vote# I

2013 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES

BILL/RESOLUTION NO. �Jjtj

Senate Appropriations Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council Amendment Number

Action Taken

Motion Made By Seconded By

Senators Yes No Senator Yes No r Chariman Ray Holmberg ,.,..- Senator Tim Mathern ,__,..... Co-Vice Chairman Bill Bowman !/; Senator David O'Connell ,__..... Co-Vice Chair Tony Grindberg ;/ Senator Larry Robinson ,___ Senator Ralph Kilzer //"" Senator John Warner Senator Karen Krebsbach Senator Robert Erbele � Senator Terry Wanzek v Senator Ron Carlisle ;_...... - Senator Gary Lee v

Total (Yes) No �------/ / Absent 8 Floor Assignment � �

If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Com Standing Committee Report Module ID: s_stcomrep_28_021 February 14, 2013 4:25pm Carrier: Berry

REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE SB 2344, as engrossed: Appropriations Committee (Sen. Holmberg, Chairman) recommends DO PASS (11 YEAS, 0 NAYS, 2 ABSENT AND NOT VOTING). Engrossed SB 2344 was placed on the Eleventh order on the calendar.

(1) DESK (3) COMMITTEE Page 1 s_stcomrep_28_021 2013 HOUSE GOVERNMENT AND VETERANS AFFAIRS

SB 2344 2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee Fort Union Room, State Capitol

SB 2344 March 8, 201 3 19632

D Conference Committee

Committee Clerk Signature

Explanation or reason for introduction of bill/resolution:

To provide an appropriation for training service dogs; and provide for legislative management study.

Minutes: You may make reference to "attached testimony."

Chairman Jim Kasper opened the hearing on SB 2344.

Senator Sorvaag appeared in support. It has been identified that service dogs can be of help in the situation of PTSD. It is asking for $50,000. The veterans' affairs will appropriate the money out. It costs around $1 5,000 a service dog.

Rep. Vicky Steiner I know they work with dogs down at the women's correctional center in New England. I think they are rescue dogs. Possibly we should think about making a coordinated effort.

Senator Sorvaag If you read the language, it is why it is very general.

Rep. Karen Karls I looked up the definition of service dog in statue. Service dogs include dogs trained to perform a variety of physical tasks including pulling a wheel chair, lending balance support, retrieving dropped objects, and providing assistance in a medical crisis. I don't know if service dogs for posttraumatic stress disorder veterans would fit in this definition. We may need to consider altering that definition.

Senator Sorvaag I know there have been cases where they prevented suicide. The people behind me could really give you more insight exactly how they feel it fits under this.

Senator Miller appeared in support. Attachment 1. (5:05-7:51 )

Rep. Karen Rohr Do you see the sum of $50, 000 as seed money? Are you thinking that there might be some private organizations that will be able later to take over that amount?

Senator Miller I think that could occur. When approached by that constituent of mine, I don't think there was really a program, and I don't think the federal government had been House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 8, 2013 Page 2 really doing much yet. They are starting to see the benefits of it so I think there is starting to be some federal interest in.

Chairman Jim Kasper How would it be determined who receives a dog? Is there a process that is already in place or would there have to be a process designed?

Senator Miller From what I have been told talking with our county veterans' service officer that it is difficult to find somebody early. It might be plenty hard to just find enough people to volunteer for this program to start off with. I think the veterans' affairs commissioner can work with the trainers of these dogs and find suitable candidates that will work to go through the entire training.

Chairman Jim Kasper There are no other funding sources for this right now?

Senator Miller I am not aware of any, but I think there might be some things starting to come, but I am not sure.

Rep. Gail Mooney On a county, local level a veteran would go in and if the VSO thought that this person might be a candidate for a service dog, then there would eventually be, if there isn't already, an application process then that individual might be able to go through?

Senator Miller I think the amount of the dollars a guy can actually train in a year or two and the difficultyit will be in finding suitable candidates will lend itself to how we are going to go through the process.

Rep. Gail Mooney The process would be on that local level?

Senator Miller Yes. Hopefully, the word will get out that there is this available.

Brenda Bergsrud, NO Veteran Coordinating Council, appeared in support. We tend to see the VA give the veterans with PTSD medications and that doesn't always work. It has already been proven that the dogs do work. We have already had an incident in our state where a veteran was saved from committing suicide because of his service dog. You were asking who would receive them. I don't think that is going to be a problem. I think we are going to have more veterans that need dogs than we are going to have enough dogs for. The federal VA is also startingto support this, but they don't have the funds. I think we as a state need to take the forefront. North Dakota supports alternative therapies even though a recent speaker at a conference made a statement that we did not.

Chairman Jim Kasper What was the speaker meaning by singling out North Dakota? Do you recall?

Brenda Bergsrud I do not, but I was very angry about the comment and let them know that we do and are working on providing more.

Shelley Nannenga, Development Director for Service Dogs for America, introduced Clark, a service dog and appeared in support. They are located in Jud, NO. We have been breeding, whelping, and training service dogs for many years. We actually have an House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 8, 2013 Page3

ICAP(?) program that we started in 2008 and that is with the James River Correctional Center so those inmates train our dogs as well. We do take rescue dogs as well. It takes approximately two years to train a service dog. It actually costs us about $25,000 but we charge $1 5,000. What I mean by charge is it is my job and our mission to not burden anybody that has a dog with us financially. We have a waiting list for service dogs for veterans. Some veterans don't want medications. A service dog is one way as an alternative. We do have the ICAP program. We would be more than willing if this is a training part that we can share what we do and how we do it. We usually don't know anything about a vet that comes to us until they come and apply. They actually have to go through all the regimented VA issues and that would be all the approvals and recommendations in order to even to come to us first. We have a rigid application as well. We have to have signoffs from all of the doctors, the psychologists, everybody there, and most of the time we have a waiting list. I can guarantee you that there won't be any trouble finding people that will feel very blessed by what you can do today.

Rep. Karen Rohr It is amazing what unconditional love can do to the healthiness of our psychics. Are there articles out there that are collecting the data?

Shelley Nannenga We are doing research. I do believe we could probably give you data from just what we know. I am sure that we have other organizations that can also share that as well. If you didn't need it just in North Dakota, if you wanted it nationwide, we could definitely find you that. That definition for a service dog was given earlier and I read that. It really doesn't fit PTSD. Do we know anybody here that has PTSD, but we do know if they have a wheel chair don't we? You don't know what they have. It is kind of like autism. You don't know unless something happens. You probably should put that in your verbiage.

Rep. Karen Karls When a person has a service dog, are they designated as such or can they just take a dog on a leash to the mall and say it is my service dog?

Shelley Nannenga No, that is not allowed. We have to have an access test. They also would have to have an identification. You don't get a service dog vest unless the dog has been through the training and been through the access training. The access training is with an individual and it would be the handler, the owner that would do the access test. They have to go through all the criteria and pass that with the dog.

Rep. Karen Karls A friend described a situation at a restaurant in Minot. Someone was there with her animal and I am not sure if it was a service animal. It was a very calm animal. People would come by and pet the dog and then handle the food. She was very upset by this and will never go back to that restaurant. I just want to make sure there is a clearly visible way to determine if it is truly a service animal.

Shelley Nannenga It would be by the vest and the patch that shows the need. We could do a patch that shows veteran. They should also have their ID with them.

Rep. Gail Mooney With the $50,000 does that actually help the situation? Are we going to be able to make enough of an impact with that? House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 8, 2013 Page4

Shelley Nannenga Remember my title is Development Director, and I am the one that raises money. It would be a good start and a good launching part. We have been in Jud, NO for over 20 years and hardly anybody knows who we are, so my first agenda was awareness.

Rep. Steven Zaiser Do you provide these service dogs for private sector individuals with special needs or PTSD?

Shelley Nannenga Yes, for over 20 years. We train four different types of dogs, for mobility, people in wheel chairs, in walkers, for seizures, epileptics, and diabetic, autism, PTSD, and therapy as well. That is why it is so costly to train these dogs. Not all these dogs make this program. Sometimes they just don't want the job. That is where the ICAP program saves us. I have talked with those prisoners and they enjoy training these dogs. Our trainers go to the prison and train these prisoners. We have worked with Home on the Range.

Rep. Bill Amerman It takes two years to train a dog but there is a length of time when whoever gets the dog actually has to come and live there and train with the dog.

Shelley Nannenga It is three weeks. We are changing that protocol as well because we found that three weeks is not enough. We have to have three dogs available for that one person for that different disability. We found that we will probably need to do a home visit and do a follow up visit and make sure they are on target. We changed our website.

Rep. Bill Amerman When these dogs are trained at the prison facility, do you take them back to Jud?

Shelley Nannenga We rotate all of our dogs. We would never keep the same dog in the prison. They start training at eight weeks. They learn the big five which includes sit, down, come, heel.

Rep. Gail Mooney What is your website?

Shelley Nannenga Servicedogsforamerica. org.

Chairman Jim Kasper Are the 10 cards issued by the veterans' affairs?

Shelley Nannenga No, it is by us, because we are accredited by ADA.

Chairman Jim Kasper Not everybody is selected for a dog. How do you determine if they are not ready to have one?

Shelley Nannenga We have a committee. We have a doctor, a vet, a psychologist, a former parent of a child that received a dog, and our executive director. They have criteria they have to follow. Sometimes it is family dynamics.

Chairman Jim Kasper The other question is about the follow up to be sure the dog is treated correctly and that is what you are talking about? House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 8, 2013 Page 5

Shelley Nannenga That it works together. You always want to make that marriage to last for the life of the dog. The dog will probably live between 8-1 0 years as a service dog. Then we do replacement dogs afterthat.

The hearing was closed.

Rep. Gary Paur I think we should hold this off and look at the definition and possibly have an amendment.

Chairman Jim Kasper asked Rep. Karls to follow up on that.

John Jacobsen, Member of the legislative committee of the ND Veterans Coordinating Council, handed out Attachment 2 supporting the bill. 2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee Fort Union Room, State Capitol

SB 2344 March 15, 201 3 2001 3

D Conference Committee

Committee Clerk Signature c�� JJ J

Explanation or reason for introduction of bill/resolution:

To provide an appropriation for training service dogs; and provide for legislative management study.

Minutes: You may make reference to "attached te

Chairman Jim Kasper opened the session on SB 2344.

Rep. Karen Karls presented the amendment Attachment 1. I visited with legislative council about drafting something that would put something about service animals for veterans in the code. The prime sponsor was okay with this. Our chairman felt that we maybe need a doctor's diagnosis or some kind of a signed statement by a physician to be included. When I went back to Anita Thomas at legislative council with that topic, she had in her hands the Americans for Disability Act and several others. Apparently, you can't really ask under the ADA. She felt adding more might make it get thrown out. I am submitting the original amendment as is. I move to adopt the amendment.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning seconded.

Rep. Steven Zaiser Anybody can have PTSD. If this is a definition section of the code, I am wondering if we should have veteran in there? I think adding veteran really makes it very exclusive.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning I was just talking with Jan Nelson from HeartSprings yesterday, and she had a veteran that had PTSD and he beat his wife and she ended up having PTSD. PTSD doesn't just apply to veterans.

Rep. Vernon Laning Would we just change the word veteran to a person?

Rep. Steven Zaiser We should use an individual.

Rep. Karen Karls Maybe we don't want to go that way at all. The bill we were addressing dealt with money for training service animals for veterans with this disorder. I merely wanted to clarify the rest of the code. If we don't want to go there, I will withdraw my amendment. House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 15, 2013 Page 2

Rep. Karen Rohr I wonder too if it isn't going to muddy the waters and create more questions where the bill won't get passed.

Rep. Steven Zaiser If Rep. Karls chooses to withdraw her amendment, I would propose the same amendment but just where it talks about veterans, simply add the word individuals having posttraumatic stress disorder.

Chairman Jim Kasper The bill is dealing with veterans. Therefore, we are appropriating dollars to the Department of Veterans' Affairs for the purpose of training service dogs to assist North Dakota veterans. Therefore, I believe this has to be specifically for veterans. We cannot open it up to other folks when we are saying it is for veterans. I don't see an exclusion area of anything else.

Rep. Karen Rohr That was my comment as well.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning Where does Section 25 fall? Is that under the veterans' code? If we put this amendment in there, anybody else that has PTSD would be exclusive to veterans to use a service dog.

Chairman Jim Kasper Rep. Karls, I am going to ask you to go back and do a little more work on the questions that have been raised. I don't want to take action on what we think is right.

Rep. Karen Karls and Vice Chair Randy Boehning both withdrew their motions.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning Maybe you have to check the definition of disability to see if that includes PTSD.

Rep. Vicky Steiner When we get to the bill and if we are going to amend, I would really appreciate one time funding language if we are not going to be continuing this appropriation.

Rep. Ben Koppelman Before I bring up a potential amendment to this bill I was going to suggest Chapter 25 of the century code is mental and physical illness and disability. In 25- 13 specifically is blind and disabled persons' activities. If we are going to insert a definition about the use of the dogs, we want to make sure we word in such a way that it segments it away from the appropriation we are making. My suggested amendment was is under the appropriation, I wonder if we shouldn't suggest that it is a grant for a pilot program and then instruct that the program sets up things like structure criteria.

Rep. Vernon Laning Actually this isn't pilot. They have been doing this for years. This is something that has already been used and shown to be somewhat effective for some individuals. It is a matter of adding some financing to it.

Rep. Karen Rohr Would this be considered seed money? This was not intended to be just a one time thing I don't believe.

Chairman Jim Kasper It is a one time thing right now. House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 15, 2013 Page3

Rep. Karen Rohr My thought is why can't we take the amount out? She indicated that they have a lot of corporations and individuals who give contributions all the time to programs such as this.

Chairman Jim Kasper Then we don't need a bill at all.

Rep. Karen Rohr That is what I am saying.

Rep. Scott Louser This is a business that is operating already, and we are looking to give $50,000 through the veterans' administration to a business that is in successful operation currently.

Rep. Gail Mooney Before we get too far into discussion of killing the bill, remember what the veterans are going through and the PTSD and how it is affecting their lives and the suicides that we are incurring. I hate to see us turn our backs on them.

Chairman Jim Kasper I would remind all of us that we are appropriating in many different areas for veterans.

Rep. Karen Karls As you might recall from testimony, the cost of training one of these is about $25, 000. This would provide, I think she said $1 5, 000 or $25,000 and $1 5,000, and she would raise the rest of the money from the corporations. The donations would fill the gap.

Chairman Jim Kasper We will set this bill aside. 2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee Fort Union Room, State Capitol

SB 2344 March 28, 201 3 20637

D Conference Committee Committee Clerk Signature � t{� Explanation or reason for introduction of bill/resolution:

To provide an appropriation for training service dogs; and provide for legislative management study.

Minutes: Attachment 1

Chairman Jim Kasper opened the session on SB 2344.

Rep. Karen Karls presented the amendment Attachment 1. She moved the amendment.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning seconded.

Rep. Karen Rohr How would that be operationalized? How would that fit into the procedure?

Rep. Karen Karls Rather than putting in diagnosed by a bona fide MD or more wording, we felt this clarifies it just enough. I think it improves it enough that it might be palatable.

Rep. Karen Rohr Would you expect the individual to have a piece of paper that says my provider or my chiropractor or therapist said that I have this and that would be enough to get them into the program?

Rep. Karen Karls That is my hope.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning Would this come from the VA?

Rep. Karen Karls I am hoping that the veterans' affairs department who gets control of the grant money would be able to--1 don't know. Do they write rules?

Vice Chair Randy Boehning I am not positive if they write rules.

Rep. Jason Dockter I recall in testimony that they have to go through the VA application process in order to get approved. This amendment would just clarify, but they would still have to go through the veterans' process to be accepted for the funds. House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 28, 2013 Page 2

Rep. Karen Karls I believe that is correct. They visit with their CVSO and veterans' service commissioner, the county level veteran service officers, and then it went on to talk about how they would get the word out through the same network.

Voice vote was taken to adopt the amendment. Motion carries.

Rep. Ben Koppelman My concern about this bill is we are not creating a pilot program or a program with rules, criteria, structure, or anything of that nature. Essentially we are spending $50,000 and saying aren't these dogs great? With their matching scholarship funds or otherwise, this might buy 3-4 dogs for this biennium. These sort of things should be in the veterans' budget.

Rep. Scott Louser This bill is not allocating 3 1/3 dogs. It is $50,000 to a business that already exists.

Chairman Jim Kasper We could further amend the bill and delete Lines 4-8 and make it a study which would then get into the comprehensiveness of what is going on with the veterans' affairs committees and the benefits for veterans.

Rep. Gail Mooney I agree that is a solution, but I don't necessarily disagree with what Rep. Koppelman and Louser had to say. My concern with stripping the money out is that we have more and more people coming back to North Dakota diagnosed with PTSD and we have an increase in suicides. It is $50,000 which is a drop in a bucket.

Rep. Vernon Laning I wouldn't argue that dogs for vets is a good idea. We have so many different veterans' programs going on. I would like to see something where we add all these things together and see what we are actually doing with the state money. They didn't make any secret. This $50,000 is nothing. They want a continuing appropriation for these dogs and they want a lot more than $50, 000 a year. I really don't like to see us get into another continuing appropriation without a lot more study on it.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning Vets can't afford to buy these dogs. If we can't spend $50,000 to save one or two lives, let us scrap everything.

Rep. Vicky Steiner Where is this proof that this is a suicide prevention program? We are making the argument if we don't do these dogs, then someone would be harmed. We don't have any statistical data to back that up. If we were going to have an encompassing study that said this is the data and if we buy this number of dogs, this number of suicides would be prevented. Then you have data.

Rep. Karen Rohr We just approved a bill not too long ago on complimentary alternatives for veterans with other traumatic disorders. There is no comprehensive methodology here.

Rep. Ben Koppelman Does anyone know the sum total of programs that we have already approved through this committee and the ongoing programs? Do we know in the budget of the adjutant general or the veterans' budget if they increased additional funds over last biennium to deal with anything relating to these sort of symptoms? House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 28, 2013 Page3

Chairman Jim Kasper I don't know the answer, but our intern is going to start doing some researching as we are speaking.

Rep. Marie Strinden Didn't we turn the alternative, like the yoga thing for PTSD, into a study?

Vice Chair Randy Boehning Appropriations did.

Rep. Gail Mooney If the study part of it isn't specific enough, I would be all for that very idea. In the here and now, there are statistics out there regarding not necessarily just suicides but the overall health of our veterans who are coming back. I have no problem with the idea of tying in a study that would bring more data to us in 201 5, but I would sure like to see us start somewhere.

Chairman Jim Kasper summarized for the visitors from Grafton what was happening.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning We should make it a mandatory study.

Chairman Jim Kasper We have the study and the funding. The question is which is more important and what type of reaction are we going to have on the floor for spending $50,000, giving it directly to a business?

Rep. Karen Rohr The lady who trains the dogs said she does have a lot of private donations that come in to support her program.

Rep. Marie Strinden I think when the information that Rep. Koppelman asked for comes back, we are going to see that although our committee has approved money to come out of it, it hasn't actually gotten to the floor, and when it gets to the floor, it hasn't actually been approved. I see a huge PTSD problem in the state and also in my district where I have a lot of Air Force veterans, and I would like to see this money kept in because it is a good cause, but it also shows that our committee is taking PTSD really seriously and know that it is a problem.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning I do believe this will have to go appropriations.

Chairman Jim Kasper No, it is a direct appropriation. We will clarify.

Rep. Ben Koppelman Regardless of our other initiatives that have come through, do we think we will have the data on how much new money was requested by that department before we vote?

Chairman Jim Kasper Agent Orange is at $75,000. The therapy for healing was turned into a study. Appropriation for veterans' programs, HB 1439, has $250,000 in it. We turned the veterans' book into a study. We have the Indian veteran representative for $25, 000, SB 2286. The veterans' budget total funds expended, the veterans' home, $24 million less $1 6 million of income. Other veterans' affairs areas, total general funds of $9 million, total special funds of $1 6 million for a total of $26 million and some one time funding that they are looking at, $575,000. It has been the tradition of this legislative session for years to pay House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 28, 2013 Page 4 particular attention to providing benefits for our veterans' and to continue to enhance the benefits as much as we can. That is why I think the study is important, but I have mixed emotions on Section 1 .

Rep. Ben Koppelman Based on the information you have given us, I make a motion to amend the bill and delete Lines 4-8 and renumber accordingly.

Rep. Vernon Laning seconded.

Rep. Marie Strinden I know 1439, the post war fund, got changed. Originally, weren't they asking for vans or something? Do we know what that money specifically is being allocated to?

Chairman Jim Kasper Now we should focus on this bill.

Rep. Marie Strinden I feel like I can't vote on the amendment until I know if there is any money going to PTSD in any of these other bills.

Chairman Jim Kasper I can't tell you that. I don't know at this time. I do know the vans are being taken care of. If I recall, not all the money was spent last biennium for vans.

A roll call vote was taken to adopt the amendment. 7-5, 2 absent. Motion fails.

Chairman Jim Kasper The motion fails because we do not have a majority of the committee. We need 8 because we have 14 committee members so 7 is not enough.

Rep. Ben Koppelman Can a bill pass with only 7 yes then? If an amendment fails with 7, will a bill fail with 7 as well?

Chairman Jim Kasper It would come out of here with no committee recommendation. We are going to stand at ease because I want to be sure my ruling was correct about the majority 8 compared to 7.

Chairman Jim Kasper The legislative council said that once you have a quorum and have votes afterwards, the vote requires a simple majority of those present to vote, so we did not need 8 to pass the motion, and we had the motion to delete Lines 4-8 on SB 2344 and did pass 7 to 5. The motion passes to adopt the amendment. When we had our break, I visited with David Sprynczynatyk's aide about this, and she said they would love to be a part of that study. There was some discussion by Rep. Boehning on whether or not we should delete the word consider on Line 10 on Page 1 and make it a mandatory study.

Rep. Gail Mooney If we have no money in it, it has to be. I make the motion to remove the word consider on Line 1 0 and make the word study.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning We have to do the same thing on Line 14. He seconded it. I am going to have a hard time voting for this again. We should have had the language in there to actually get the dogs out and see how it is helping. We won't have the information on this until 2020. House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 March 28, 2013 Page 5

Rep. Vernon Laning That is not true. The dogs are already out there. They are being given to vets. It is just that they are not being able to give as many dogs as they would like to.

Chairman Jim Kasper Let us talk about the bill we have before us.

A voice vote was taken to adopt the amendment. Motion carries.

Vice Chair Randy Boehning made a motion for a Do pass as amended.

Rep. Jason Dockter seconded.

Rep. Vicky Steiner I am going to change my vote after some discussion after the vote. have had this in other committees where they say we don't have to be the appropriations committee, we set the policy. If the policy is that we start considering seed money for dogs, then we say to appropriations this is a worthy idea, and they decide whether or not they have the $50,000.

Chairman Jim Kasper Let us review what we have done. We amended out $50,000. Even if that $50,000 had stayed in, this would not have gone to appropriations because it is a direct appropriation. It would have gone to the floor. What we are dealing with now is the bill we have before us which is a mandatory study of all veterans' benefits. I think you want to focus on what the bill does, not what you would like it to do or what you are disappointed that we didn't do. Do you think it is good public policy that we study all of the benefits that the veterans currently have and maybe look at ways to coordinate or enhance those benefits or change those benefits?

Rep. Ben Koppelman During break I found out the following information from the subsection in appropriations that does that part of it. They have added $250,000 to the post war trust fund principal which they can spend the interest off of. They have put in $21 0,000 in the ACOVA board operations. $250,000 in education for returning vets and additional money which he didn't know the number for the children of disabled vets to go to school. There is another $250, 000 being kind of hashed back and forth between the senate and the house. This is all above and beyond basic care for those that have to be in a veterans' home.

Rep. Bill Amerman For what reason did you gather the information?

Rep. Ben Koppelman I had asked the question if we knew how much our committee and appropriations in total had given toward benefits for returning veterans.

Chairman Jim Kasper Rep. Koppelman received it from the subsection of the house appropriations committee that deals with the veterans' budgets.

Rep. Bill Amerman 58,000 men killed in Vietnam. That is the price.

A roll call vote was taken and resulted in DO PASS AS AMENDED, 13-0, 1 ABSENT. Rep. Karen Karls is the carrier of this bill. 2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee Fort Union Room, State Capitol

SB 2344 April 4, 201 3 20856

D Conference Committee

Committee Clerk Signature

Explanation or reason for introduction of bill/resolution:

To provide an appropriation for training service dogs; and provide for legislative management study

Minutes: You may make reference to "attached testimony."

(3:1 9) Chairman Jim Kasper opened the session on SB 2344. This was the bill on the service dogs. We voted on it on March 28, 201 3. We amended the $50,000 out of the bill and it came out do pass as amended 13-0. It now is a study of some of the veterans' issues and so on. In talking with the chairman of the appropriations committee, I think Rep. Boehning was going to try to amend the $50, 000 back in, but they will not accept any bill with money after April 1 . Therefore, we cannot add money into this bill. That is the rules of the house. Being we already acted on the bill, I am going to sign off and send it to the floor.

The meeting was adjourned. 13 08. 58.02003 Adopted by the Government and Veterans Title.03000 Affairs Committee March 28, 20 13

PROPOSED AMEN DMENTS TO ENGROSSED SENATE BILL NO. 2344

Page1, line1, remove "an appropriation for training service dogs; and to provide"

Page1, line 2 , after "study" insert "regarding North Dakota veterans"

Page1, remove lines4 through 8

Page1, line10 , replace "consider studying" with "study"

Page1, line14 , replace "consider studying" with "study"

Renumber accordingly

Page No. 1 13 08. 58.02003 Date: -----=.3_/_<)-_/_.J__

Roll Call Vote #: ____

2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES . I I BILL/RESOLUTION NO. ;2.�'f :-}

House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee Legislative Council Amendment Number /3. o

D Rerefer to Appropriations D Reconsider

Motion Made By ---+-144--=------Seconded By �

Representatives Yes No Representatives Yes No Chairman Jim Kasper Rep. Bill Amerman Vice Chairman Randy Boehning Rep. Gail Mooney Rep. Jason Dockter Rep. Marie Strinden Rep. Karen Karls Rep. Steven Zaiser Rep. Ben Koppelman

Rep. Vernon Laning , Rep. Scott Louser .J'" Rep. Gary Paur � Rep. Karen Rohr ·-y \ Rep. Vicky Steiner 11 /). \ JV' v J'\(}I t-. lf ' :r 1Y r\ l J ,J nf ./ Total (Yes) No I {Y"1fJ / Absent c�v� �·,$ \�� \J Floor Assignment 'P ,"\)\

If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Date: __�_ -_;;_�_-_/_�_

Roll Call Vote #: ____,_ I_ _

2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES BILL/RESOLUTION NO. �3 cf?{

House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council Amendment Number

Action Taken: D Do Pass D Do Not Pass D Amended Adopt Amendment

D Rerefer to Appropriations D Reconsider

_ Motion Made By __ 1).:-p�:::....·--==------Seconded By

Representatives Yes No Representatives Yes No Chairman Jim Kasper Rep. Bill Amerman Vice Chairman Randy Boehning Rep. Gail Mooney Rep. Jason Dockter Rep. Marie Strinden Rep. Karen Karls Rep. Steven Zaiser-4}-,., <

' Rep. Ben Koppelman \ 0 ll � Rep. Vernon Laning I I u\.£/�.� Rep. Scott Louser v .... A1• ,./'"" Rep. Gary Paur I 1'\ ... g.- Rep. Karen Rohr j"',ru /'/ v Rep. Vicky Steiner \._/"

Total (Yes) No ------

Absent

Floor Assignment

If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Date· 3 -cJ- g / :S Roll Call Vote #: ..- ;t.;

2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOT�S BILL/RESOLUTION NO. r ...,.) tjUf House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council Amendment Number Action Taken: 0 Do Pass 0 Do Not Pass 0 Amended �Adopt Amendment 0 Rerefer to Appropriations 0 Reconsider

_ Motion Made By _ K�c.,._�--.t-=-++-=-=-=-"------Seconded By �

Representatives Yes No Representatives Yes No Chairman Jim Kasper >< Rep. Bill Amerman Vice Chairman Randy Boehning ;;;< Rep. Gail Mooney � Rep. Jason Dockter >< Rep. Marie Strinden x Rep. Karen Karls >< Rep. Steven Zaiser Rep. Ben Koppelman Rep. Vernon Laning

Rep. Scott Louser r

Rep. Gary Paur ...... -r ,..._,.; n.h Rep. Karen Rohr Rep. Vicky Steiner /' � �I

Total (Yes) '1 No ------.:::::>�'----'-·--- Absent

Floor Assignment

If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Date 3-.J-;; Roll Cal l Vote #: 5-�

2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES BILL/RESOLUTION NO. 2:)t..f'f

House Government and Veterans Affairs Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council Amendment Number

Action Taken: D Do Pass D Do Not Pass D Amended t2r'Adopt Amendment 0 Rerefer to Appropriations D Reconsider

Motion Made By --1A1-+--"'-�------Seconded By

Representatives Yes No Representatives Yes No Chairman Jim Kasper Rep. Bill Amerman Vice Chairman Randy Boehning Rep. Gail Mooney Rep. Jason Dockter Rep. Marie Strinden Rep. Karen Karls Rep. Steven Zaiser Rep. Ben Koppelman Rep. Vernon Laning ( y Rep. Scott Louser J Rep. Gary Paur {\ p( -'f.J }__j Rep. Karen Rohr \\.. ' v i xfJ .P Rep. Vicky Steiner �v /V \"' \} � f" tv{ (\ JY } ' v

Total (Yes)

Absent

Floor Assignment

If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Date: )-J.�r /3 Roll Call Vote #: F/

2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES · BILL/RESOLUTION NO. OZ 3 t/ i

House Government and Veterans Affa irs Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council A/ndment Number Action Taken: � Do Pass 0 Do Not Pass �Amended D Adopt Amendment 0 Rerefer to Appropriations D Reconsider

Motion Made By -��c._::----'---t--- Seconded By

Representatives Yes No Representatives Yes No Chairman Jim Kasper y Rep. Bill Amerman X Vice Chairman Randy Boehning X Rep. Gail Mooney ><- '>G Rep. Jason Dockter .x; Rep. Marie Strinden Rep. Karen Karls )(' Rep. Steven Zaiser Rep. Ben KopRelman '< Rep. Vernon Laning >< Rep. Scott Louser "'< Rep. Gary Paur -/' Rep. Karen Rohr >

Total (Yes) I� No 0 Absent I Floor Assignment K;J? If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Com Standing Committee Report Module ID: h_stcomrep_56_004 March 29, 2013 8:22am Carrier: Karls Insert LC: 13.0858.02003 Title: 03000

REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE SB 2344, as engrossed: Government and Veterans Affairs Committee (Rep. Kasper, Chairman) recommends AMENDMENTS AS FOLLOWS and when so amended, recommends DO PASS (13 YEAS, 0 NAYS, 1 ABSENT AND NOT VOTING). Engrossed SB 2344 was placed on the Sixth order on the calendar.

Page 1, line 1, remove "an appropriation for training service dogs; and to provide"

Page 1, line 2, after "study" insert "regarding North Dakota veterans"

Page 1, remove lines 4 through 8

Page 1, line 1 0, replace "consider studying" with "study"

Page 1 , line 14, replace "consider studying" with "study"

Renumber accordingly

(1) DESK (3) COMMITTEE Page 1 h_stcomrep_56_004 2013 HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS

SB 2344 2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES

House Appropriations Committee Roughrider Room, State Capitol

SB 2344 4/ 10/1 3 Job #21081

D Conference Committee

Committee Clerk Signature

Minutes: Proposed amendment .02006

Chairman Delzer called the committee back to order. The bill is regarding service dogs.

Rep. Jim Kasper, District 46: I brought a simple little friendly amendment on SB 2344 to clarify the $50,000 that is currently in the bill for defraying expenses of training service dogs. The GVA Committee had stripped out the $50,000 on the floor and we simply had Section 2 of the bill on the floor and the vote was to put Section 1 back into the bill, and Rep. Boehning has come up with a friendly amendment. Rep. Kasper went over the proposed amendment .02006. (See proposed amendment .02006) I hope the committee would adopt the amendment regardless of what you do with the bill.

Chairman Delzer: On the bill there was some discussion on the House floor about the words 'service dogs,' is that the right wording to use going forward?

Rep. Kasper: We did not discuss that.

Chairman Delzer: If we change it to 'shall consider' a study instead of 'shall' study. Do you care if we change that?

Rep. Kasper: No, that is not a major concern. Shall or shall consider doesn't matter. The one thing about the study in the area of veteran's benefits you might want to be sure that these service dogs are providing the function and result that we were being told they are. It might be more of verification?

Chairman Delzer: The study doesn't say anything about the dogs at all does it?

Rep. Kasper: No, it's more of a study of veterans' benefits.

Rep. Grande: When we had this discussion in GVA last session we talked about funding this out of postwar trust fund. Was there any discussion about that especially now that we have increased the amount that is going into the postwar trust fund?

Rep. Kasper: No. The bill as you see it came to the committee; there was zero discussion about whether we should take it from the post war trust fund. House Appropriations Committee SB 2344 April 10, 2013 Page 2

Rep. Skarphol: We've been talking about staying away from specifying a dollar amount for things. What about the $1 2, 500; is that a figure that is low or is that the approximately cost to do this? Why would you care what it cost if you could get six of them done for the $50,000?

Rep. Kasper: During testimony in the committee, the lady that owns and operates the service dog training indicated the training takes about two years and between $1 2,000 to $1 5,000 over the period of time to train the dog appropriately.

06:05 Rep. Skarphol: If she offered to do six of them for $50,000 why would you not take it?

Rep. Kasper: The amendment says the payment may not exceed $1 2,500 per dog so it can be less.

Rep. Skarphol: It also says no more than four dogs.

Rep. Kasper: It does. If you want to amend that amendment I don't see where the committee would have any problem. You may not get a full payment per dog, but it certainly would go toward defraying the cost of more dogs.

Chairman Delzer: Further questions for Rep. Kasper?

Rep. Brandenburg: The $50, 000, who is that going to? What are the veterans going to do with this?

Rep. Kasper: On the amendment #1 , it says "a payment under this section may be made by the department of veterans' affairs only upon the completion of the service dog's training. If the dog has been trained, I would assume the process would be the training company would go to the department of veterans' affairs and give the information to the department and ask for the reimbursement so it is a process.

Chairman Delzer: Did you discuss how they are paying for them now, and who is paying for them?

Rep. Kasper: I believe this business trains dogs for all kinds of things; they are looking at expanding the training to include service dogs.

Chairman Delzer: Do we have any veterans in North Dakota that are using one of these dogs for this purpose and if so where did they get trained and who paid for the dog?

Rep. Kasper: I don't recall from the testimony that there had been any service dogs that had been trained and placed yet.

Rep. Grande: Last session we had a few people come in that have dogs trained for PTSD. She was there that day and wanted reimbursement from the Department of Veterans' Affairs. She would have had the ability to apply for the granting in the postwar trust fund. I did not hear back from her if they granted her the money. House Appropriations Committee SB 2344 April10 , 2013 Page 3

09:30 Chairman Delzer: Did you follow up with Veterans' Affairs if there is anything in code that restricts them from doing this right now with their earnings they have? Right now they have not spent all their earnings plus the carry forward.

Rep. Kasper: That discussion did not come up.

Chairman Delzer: Further questions? Thank you.

Rep. Pollert: There is currently a waiting list of veterans waiting for benefits and maybe you brought it up when you talked about veterans affairs and veterans home and I was told they had approved around $70,000 for equipment for the veterans home and they have a waiting list for people for dentures so we are getting emails asking how come they are doing that? That is not our responsibility. So if you add the service dogs to that as well there is going to be a longer waiting list.

Chairman Delzer: They would put them in the same guise and they would have to decide.

Rep. Grande: That's been my question all along when we dealt with some of these bills earlier the question was what has happened with the van money that we had last time? What has happened to the allocations that were done? Do we know where we are at with those things so we know where to apply the monies? This women veteran I spoke to, if it were not for her dog, she would not have been mentally capable of leaving her home. They are extremely important when you are dealing with a PTSD situation.

Chairman Delzer: We have a number of options on the motions, and not a lot of time.

Rep. Grande made a motion to shall consider; we take out the guidelines of for service dogs; see a reporting mechanism detailed back as to how they do this and how many applied so we know the department of veterans affairs actually did their job when it came to getting these service dogs to the people.

Rep. Brandenburg seconded

Chairman Delzer: We have a motion to adopt .2006 with a change of deleting #4 service dogs; leave $1 2,500 and shall study to shall consider study and put a reporting requirements on there on who many applied; how many received and some sort of evaluation. What is your idea there? Some sort of evaluation of benefits compared to the cost.

Discussion:

Rep. Skarphol: I have a concern about the service dog reference.

Rep. Guggisberg: If we are going to bring this down to $1 2,500 for a pilot project maybe we should also look at doing another $1 2,500 for other things? House Appropriations Committee SB 2344 April10 , 2013 Page 4

Chairman Delzer: We have not addressed the money yet.

Rep. Grande: Service dog is a type of assistance dog specifically trained to help people who have disabilities including visual difficulty; hearing impaired; mental illness, censures; diabetes; autism and more. I believe it characterizes enough to include PTSD.

Voice vote carries

Rep. Grande: we looked further, we have the mental health service dog and they actually list in there their definition PTSD and other conditions and mood disorders. Maybe we do want to further amend to be mental health service dogs. If we narrow it, what if we have veterans that are coming back and missing the limbs and it is the dog that is doing the retrieving work and as their service dog type thing and I would not want to limit that ability.

Chairman Delzer: I'd be hesitant about putting mental health service dog into the bill. What are the committee's wishes?

Rep. Bellew Moved Do Pass as Amended; Seconded by Rep. Boe.

Chairman Delzer: We haven't addressed whether or not the federal government does anything on this. It is over and above what we have done for the veterans on other things.

Vote: 16 Yes 6 No 0 Absent Carrier: Rep. Bellow

Closed. 13 08. 5802. 00 7 Prepared by the Legislative Council staff for Title.05000 House Appropriations April 11, 20 13

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO ENGROSSED SENATE BILL NO. 2344

In lieu of the amendments adopted by the House as printed on page 1235 and divided on page12 43 of the House Journal, Engrossed Senate Bill No. 2344 is amended as follows:

Page 1, after line 8, insert:

"1 . A payment under this section may be made by the department of veterans' affairs only upon the completion of a service dog's training.

2. Payment may not exceed $1 2,500 per service dog.

SECTION 2. VETERANS SERVICE DOG TRAINING - LEGISLATIVE MANAGEMENT REPORT. The department of veterans' affairs shall provide a report to the legislative management during the 2013 -1 4 interim regard ing the status of the service dog training program, including benefits to veterans, number of applicants, and number of service dogs provided."

Renumber accordingly

Page No. 1 13 08. 5802. 00 7 Date: 4/to/13 Roll Call Vote#: ___.:.1__ _

2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES BILL/RESOLUTION NO. z..?>LiY

House Appropriations Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council Amendment Number

Action Taken: D Do Pass D Do Not Pass D Amended lXJ Adopt Amendment

D Rerefer to Appropriations D Reconsider Motion Made By ---'-�-'-"�£f r-· _...::.__:b-vn=.:--�= --- Seconded By e'¥3m �� Representatives Yes No Representatives Yes No Chairman Delzer Rep. Streyle Vice Chairman Kempenich Rep. Thoreson Rep. Bellew Rep. Wieland Rep. Brandenburg Rep. Dosch Rep. Grande Rep. Boe Rep. Hawken Rep. Glassheim Rep. Kreidt Rep. Guggisberg Rep. Martinson Rep. Holman Rep. Monson Rep. Williams Rep. Nelson Rep. Pollert Rep. Sanford Rep. Skarphol

No ------Total Yes ------

Absent

Floor Assignment

If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent:

s�tl

" { I '' 1 �viu. Date: y//()113 Roll Call Vote #: --=L=----

2013 HOUSE STANDING COMMITTEE ROLL CALL VOTES BILL/RESOLUTION NO. Z-3Y4

House Appropriations Committee

D Check here for Conference Committee

Legislative Council Amendment Number

Action Taken: � Do Pass D Do Not Pass [I Amended D Adopt Amendment

D Rerefer to Appropriations D Reconsider

Motion Made By Seconded By /J r<110 €f'&

Representatives Yes No Representatives Yes No Chairman Delzer X Rep. Streyle k' Vice Chairman Kempenich X Rep. Thoreson )( Rep. Bellew y Rep. Wieland y Rep. Brandenburg X Rep. Dosch K' Rep. Grande v Rep. Boe y Rep. Hawken X Rep. Glassheim )( Rep. Kreidt '1. Rep. Guggisberg X' Rep. Martinson '{ Rep. Holman '( Rep. Monson '( Rep. Williams )( Rep. Nelson '{ Rep. Pollert )( Rep. Sanford '( Rep. Skarphol )(

Total Yes I(; No

Absent 0 Floor Assignment e.�f· BtilDArJ If the vote is on an amendment, briefly indicate intent: Com Standing Committee Report Module ID: h_stcomrep_65_004 April 11, 2013 3:51pm Carrier: Bellew Insert LC: 13.0858.02007 Title: 05000

REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE SB 2344, as engrossed and amended: Appropriations Committee (Rep. Delzer, Chairman) recommends AMENDMENTS AS FOLLOWS and when so amended, recommends DO PASS (16 YEAS, 6 NAYS, 0 ABSENT AND NOT VOTI NG). Engrossed SB 2344, as amended, was placed on the Sixth order on the calendar.

In lieu of the amendments adopted by the House as printed on page 1235 and divided on page 1243 of the House Journal, Engrossed Senate Bill No. 2344 is amended as follows:

Page 1, after line 8, insert:

" 1 . A payment under this section may be made by the department of veterans' affairs only upon the completion of a service dog's training.

2 . Payment may not exceed $12,500 per service dog.

SECTION 2. VETERANS SERV ICE DOG TRAINING - LEGISLATIVE MANAGEMENT REPORT. The department of veterans' affairs shall provide a report to the legislative management during the 2013-14 interim regarding the status of the service dog training program, including benefits to veterans, number of applicants, and number of service dogs provided."

Renumber accordingly

(1) DESK (3) COMMITTEE Page 1 h_stcomrep_65_004 2013 TESTIMONY

SB 2344 NORTH DAKOTA SENATE

STAT E CAPITOL 600 EAST BOULEVA RD BISMARCK, ND 58505-0360

Senator Joe Miller COMMITTEES: District 10 Agriculture 214 Harris Avenue North Finance and Ta xation Park River, NO 58270-4512

Residence: 701-284-6547 Cell: 701-331-1491 [email protected]

February 7, 20 13

Senate Bill 2344 Service Dogs for Veterans

Chairman Dever, and members of the Government and Veterans Affairs committee, thank you for the opportunity to address you all today on this very important matter.

This bill is to provide an appropriation of $50,000 dollars to the Dept. of Veterans Affairs for the purpose of training service dogs to assist veterans with Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). This bill also contains language to provide a legislative study for the purpose examining the various tax incentives and other veteran focused programs that the state offers.

About five years ago I was sitting at a veteran function listening to a speaker talk about PTSD. It was alarming to me to learn about the intensity of the struggle so many veterans have with PTSD. I, not being a veteran, have not experienced the situations our veterans have faced and therefore had not been able to relate. The speaker opened my eyes to the issue and helped me build a connection.

I was further made aware of the alarming suicide statistics among veterans. Since 2001, 220 North Dakota Veterans have taken their lives. Not including numbers from last year. To make a comparison we have lost 26 North Dakotans in the Iraq and Afghan wars.

Two years ago a constituent of mine approached me about providing funding for this program se she knows firsthand the benefits it has provided her in dealing with PTSD. She was able to receive some money from a special grant but this was not widely available. As a result, this bill has 2

been created to begin a program that will hopefully curtail the horrifying statistics and give other veterans a tool in dealing with the trails of war.

I have witnessed individuals with service dogs. Their lives have improved drastically. The dogs give them a companion that is fiercely loyal and trained to keep the veteran out of the darkness of depression and isolation. This program, this training and these dogs are saving lives of your most honored citizens.

Thank you for your consideration.

Senator Joe Miller Lonnie Wangen Commissioner ND DVA

SB 2344

2/7/20 13

Chairman Dever and Government & Veterans Affairs Committee Members,

I would like to ask fo r your support of SB 2344. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is a real illness which greatly affects the quality of lives fo r well over 35% of our veterans. PTSD is also a large contributing fa ctor in the alarming rate of suicides within our veteran community.

Nationally it is estimated that a veteran will successfully commit suicide every 80 minutes which results in over 6,000 suicides per year. The 20 12 Suicide numbers fo r North Dakota have not been released yet. But in 2011 North Dakota had 25 Veteran Suicides. As a comparison we have lost 26 North Dakotans in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001. We have lost over 220

North Dakotan Veterans to suicide since 2001 (without the 2012 numbers).

I have heard stories of how these dogs have saved the lives of our veterans. I believe you will hear some of these stories today. I would like to ask that you support this bill so we can continue to care fo r our most at risk veterans as they deal with the traumas of war.

Thank you,

Lonnie Wangen Commissioner ND DVA FEBRUARY 7, 2013

PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO SENATE BILL NO 2344

Page 1, line 13, after "services. " insert "The legislative management shall consider studying current state and federal benefits available to North Dakota veterans ."

Renumber accordingly �f't #/ 9� :L3�b!J�

My name is John Jacobsen. I am a member of the Legislative Committee of the North Dakota Veterans Coordinating Council. I am also a member of the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

I served in the North Dakota National Guard and the US Army Reserve for a total of 30 years. I retired in 1995 as a Colonel. I served on active duty in 1991 during Operation Desert Shield/Desert storm in the Persian Gulf, stationed in the United Arab Emirates.

The Coordinating Council is made up of 15 members , 3 from each of the five veterans' organizations in North Dakota.

American Legion AMVET S Disabled American Veterans Veterans of Foreign Wars Vietnam Veterans of America

It is the policy of the Coordinating Council to support legislation that will benefit the welfare of the members of the Armed Forces. The committee MUST concur totally, that is all 15 members must agree on the legislation to be supported or else it does not get the support.

In this case, I have been instructed to recommend to this legislative committee that a "DO PASS" on SB 2344 is supported by the Veterans Coordinating Council. NORTH DAKOTA SENATE

STAT E CAPITOL 600 EAST BOULEVARD BISMARCK, ND 58505-0360

Senator Joe Miller COMMITTEES: District 10 Agriculture 214 Harris Avenue North Finance and Ta xation Park River, ND 58270-4512

Residence: 701-284-6547 Cell: 701-331-1491 [email protected]

March 8, 2013

Senate Bill 2344

Service Dogs for Veterans

Chairman Kasper, and members of the Government and Veterans Affairs committee, good morning

and thank you for this opportunity to address you all on this very important matter.

This bill is to provide an appropriation of $50,000 dollars to the Dept. of Veterans Affairs for the purpose

01 training service dogs to assist veterans with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). This bill also contains

language to provide a legislative study for the purpose examining the various tax incentives and other veteran

focused programs that the state offers.

About five years ago I was sitting at a veteran function listening to a speaker talk about PTSD. It was

alarming to me to learn about the intensity of the struggle so many veterans have with PTSD. I, not bening a

veteran, have not experienced the situations our veterans have faced and therefore had not been able to

relate. The speaker opened my eyes to the issue and helped me build a connection.

I was further alarmed by the by the suicide statistics among our veterans. Since 2001 , over 220 North

Dakota Veterans have taken their own lives. To make a comparison we have lost 26 North Dakotans in the

Iraq and Afghan wars in the past decade.

Two years ago a constituent of mine approached me about providing funding for this program because

she has first-hand experience with the benefits of these service dogs in combati ng PTSD. She was able to

;ive some money from a special grant that at the time was not widely available. As a result this bill has

been offe red to begin a state program that will hopefully curtail the horrifying statistics and give other veterans

a tool in dealing with the trials of war. 2

I have witnessed individuals with service dogs. Their lives have improved drastically. The dogs give them a companion that is fiercely loyal and trained to keep the veteran out of the darkness of depression and isolation. This program, this training and these dogs are saving lives of our most honored citizens.

Thank you for your consideration.

Senator Joe Miller NORTH DAKOTA VETERANS COORDINATING COUNCIL

My name is John Jacobsen. I am a member of the Legislative Committee of the North Dakota Veterans Coordinating Council. The Coordinating Council is made up of 15 members , 3 from each of the five veterans' organizations in North Dakota.

American Legion AMVET S Disabled American Veterans Veterans of Foreign Wars Vietnam Veterans of America

It is the policy of the Coordinating Council to support legislation that will benefit the welfare of the members of the Armed Forces. The committee MUST concur totally, that is all 15 members must agree on the legislation to be supported or else it does not get the support.

In this case, I have been instructed to recommend to this legislat ive committee that a "DO PASS" on SB 2344 as amended is supported by the Veterans Coordinating Council. �+--\-CA.c.-i-, V\1\ i' Kl- { 13 08. 5802. 001 Prepared by the Legislative Council stafffor Title. Representative Karls March 11 , 2013

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO ENGROSSED SENATE BILL NO. 2344

Page 1, line1, after the semicolon insert "to amend and reenact sections 25 -13 -01 and 25 -13 -01 1. of the North Dakota Century Code, relating to service dogs for veterans;"

Page 1, after line 8, insert:

"SECTION 2. AMENDMENT. Section 25 -13 -0 1 of the North Dakota Century Code is amended and reenacted as follows:

25-1 3-01. Legislative policy.

It is the policy of this state to encourage and enable tAeindividuals who are blind, tAe visually handicapped, andtheimp aired. or otherwise physically disabled to participate fully in the social and economic life of the state and to engage in remunerative employment.

SECTION 3. AMENDMENT. Section 25 -13 -01 .1 of the North Dakota Century Code is amended and reenacted as follows:

25-1 3-01.1. Definitions.

For purposes of this chapter "service animal" means any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal trained to do work, perform tasks, or provide assistance for the benefit of an individual with a disability. The term includes an animal trained to provide assistance or protection services to an individual with a disability, pull a wheelchair, lend balance support, retrieve dropped objects, or provide assistance in a medical crisis, and a service dog trained to assist a veteran having po sttraumatic stress disorder."

Renumber accordingly

Page No.1 13 08. 58.02001 13 08. 58.0200 2 Prepared by the Legislative Council��

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO ENGROSSED SENATE BILL NO. 23 44

Page1, line 7, replace "having" with "diagnosed with"

Renumber accordingly

Page No.1 13 08. 58.0200 2 13 .085 8.02 006 Prepared by the Legislative Council staff for Title. Representative Boehning April10 , 2013

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO ENGROSSED SENATE BILL NO. 2344

In lieu of the amendments adopted by the House as printed on page12 35 of the House Journal, Engrossed Senate Bill No. 2344 is amended as follows:

Page1, after line 8 , insert:

"1 . A payment under this section may be made by the department of veterans' affairs only upon the completion of a service dog's training.

2. The department of veterans' affairs may not pay for the training of more than four service dogs under this section and no payment may exceed $1 2,500."

Renumber accordingly

Page No.1 13 .085 8 .02 006