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2013 Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Sb 2344 2013 SENATE GOVERNMENT AND VETERANS AFFAIRS SB 2344 2013 SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE MINUTES Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee Missouri River Room, State Capitol SB 2344 02/07/2013 Job Number 18476 D Conference Committee Committee Clerk Signature Explanation or reason for introduction of bill/resolution: A Bill for an Act to provide an appropriation for training service dogs; and to provide a legislative management study. Minutes: Chairman Dever: Opened the hearing on SB 2344. Senator Sorvaag, District 45: Testified as sponsor of the bill and to explain the bill. (1 :40)Chairman Dever: I am curious what the intention is with the service dogs, is it to provide a service dog to a person? Senator Sorvaag: That would be my understanding but I would wa it for more testimony for more details. Chairman Dever: Do you know how many veterans you would serve for $50,000? Senator Sorvaag: I do not. (2:40) Senator Miller, District 10: See Attachments #1A and #18 for testimony as sponsor and in support of the bill. (Gave a personal experience) (9:40)Chairman Dever: If 35% of our veterans sufferfrom PTSD than three dogs seems to be coming up well short. Senator Miller: It would be a lot better if we could do more but it is the capacity of how fast they can get them trained. It is a pilot in a sense. Let's get it started and see what we can do, and hopefully we can do more at another time. Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 2 Chairman Dever: You mentioned a VA Grant. Do you know any more about that? Senator Miller: No. From my constituents special instance, she got hers paid for somehow but she indicated to me that it was a special consideration and not the norm. Chairman Dever: I recognize the problem and it seems to me that when a person joins the military and goes overseas and fights for our country that the federal government has a responsibility to deal with any situation that comes about as a result of that service. Senator Miller: Absolutely. (1 1 :36) Brenda Bergsrud, North Dakota Department of Veterans Affairs: Testified in support of the bill. I travel the entire state as the coordinator and I want to tell you my personal feelings on this bill. We have so many young veterans that come back and suffer from PTSD and they do not want to take the medications. They don't want pills thrown at them and that is typically what our federal VA does do in all honesty. We need to find some alternative therapies to that. I have seen firsthand what these dogs can do. I agree that three a year is not enough, but we also need to help our younger veterans that do not want to take the medications and want the alternative therapies. The federal VA is starting to support this and pay for the dogs. I understand that the dogs are very expensive but if they save a life, that life is worth it. We just had a 22 year old family friend that just committed suicide, and he shot himself with a 12 gauge shotgun and I wonder if he had of had the opportunity to have some alternative therapies, if that would have worked. He refused to take his medication. (1 3:48) Chairman Dever: What kind of treatment there is out there for PTSD? Brenda Bergsrud: Drugs and counseling services. I have to complement our federal VA system with that. They have the vet centers which are designed for counseling for combat veterans specifically. There are the counselors at the VA medical centers and we are Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 3 working with them more. We have had some meetings and lots of supportfrom the veteran's organizations with our state being so rural. There needs to be more out-based counseling to the communities. Typically they want to give them medication. There is a yoga program in Fargo as well. Chairman Dever: To what extent have we succeeded in removing the stigma of PTSD? Brenda Bergsrud: That is a tricky question. I think that we are reaching more of our younger veterans with it because of a generation issue, but I think that we still are not reaching our Vietnam era veterans and older because of the stigma. Vice Chairman Berry: Are there any results of studies that have been done with PTSD? Brenda Bergsrud: There is a decline. (13:22) Shelley Nannenga, Development Director, Service Dogs for America: Testified in support of the bill. (Demonstrates service dog) We started in 1989 and we have placements every year and within those placements we usually have a � of those placements are vets and we are seeing the older vet verses the younger vet. We have 4 types of dogs and we do have a dog that is for psychological and PTSD; it is kind of a therapy dog. (18:18) Vice Chairman Berry: You mentioned that there are different dogs for different disabilities or challenges; can you explain to me the different breeds and what they bring? Shelley Nannenga: We primarily breed labs and golden retrievers mostly because of their patience; loyalty and they are just easier. To train a dog usually takes about 2 to 2% years. It would be for mobility needs, a seizure dog or low level diabetics, therapy, and autism dogs - they take 2 %to 3 years for those. They are so smart and have an ability to read the people. I am fairly new to the organization, but the stories that I have are really interesting and lifesaving. We are located in Judd, North Dakota and we have 35 to 40 Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page 4 dogs. We also have a wonderful program, the Inmate Canine Assistant Dog program that where we use inmates from the James River Correctional Center to help train the dogs. They keep the cost down. A dog costs us between $20,000 and $25,000 depending on the vet bill and the specialty training. We charge about $15,000 for a client to get a dog. I would like make it possible for people to not have to pay for a dog. It is an expense that is difficult for some. Senator Nelson: Several years ago we had a couple of bills to allow dogs to go into restaurants and other places to get the feeling of real life. Shelley Nannenga: Thank you for doing that. Senator Nelson: Do you help law enforcement train their dogs or do they train their own? Shelley Nannenga: They are a different type of dog and a differentreg iment. I will let Randall talk a little more about that. They have the basic five, which is what they all learn. That bill made all the differencefo r us in training and our client's independence. Senator Nelson: Our pastor's son is autistic and he has a service dog, I think he got it in Omaha. Shelley Nannenga: We are looking at our program and we are thinking that we need more so we are going for training. Senator Nelson: Are the dogs trained for a specific person or type of person? Shelley Nannenga: Yes that is more or less what it is. In the time of training we pick a client and we ask specific questions to match the dog with the person and then we specialize the dog to their needs. We have a long waiting list. Senator Nelson: H w long does the client come for training? Shelley Nannenga: They come for 3 weeks, but we are making changes to that. We are having them come sooner and acclimate to the dog and then come back for the rest. They Senate Government and Veterans Affairs Committee SB 2344 02/07/2013 Page5 have to learn the commands at home. We promise that this is for the life of the dog. We are with that team until the dog has passed. We have to make sure the training is consistent. We have a relationship that is built on. Usually a dog can last 10 to 13 years. It depends on the needs and the environment they are in. We promise that we will be there and continue to educate. We want them to continue to be independent. Senator Nelson: What if the person passes? Shelley Nannenga: We hope that we will get the dog back and be able to use that dog; it depends on how many years that dog has left. It doesn't happen very often. Senator Nelson: We read about the one that came back from Iraq that wanted to bring his dog and all of the red tape he went through. Shelley Nannenga: I want to share stories of the vets that we have formed teams with. They are the older vets in their 30's and 40's. They don't want to depend on meds, they want an alternative. They want choices. The yoga is relaxing but a service dog is therapeutic and it is just when the dog looks at you he can read your mind ... he knows who you are. If you have that dog long enough, he knows what your next step is. That is what they need. I can tell stories, I just don't know if I can get through them, on how a dog has changed someone's life and how they have stopped a suicide.
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