[COUNCIL.] lcgwlative Counicil, provided Mlr. Franklin is willing to answ'!r it, I have no objection to the question being Wednesday, 26th September, 1928. asked, Leave granted. Hom. A. LOVEKIN asked Hon. J. f. PAGO Question: City of Perth Superannuation Fund Bill 018 Franklin: 1, Will lie lay on the Table a MotionW: Collie power scheme .. .. 018 Bills: Runlways Discontinuance, Ia. .. .. ass, statement showing-(a) the ages, (b) oc- Whaling, 23...... Forests Act Amendment, 2R...... 982929 cupations, and (a) the salaries or wages Electoral Act Amendment, 211...... 985 of employees of the 'Municipality of Perth Indutries AMssitance Act Continuance, 2w. on. report ...... 942 who will participate in the proposed sup- Dried Fruite Act Amendmnt. 28m.,Coan... 044 eramnation seheme7 2, At what age is it proposed that the superannuation payments will commenceg 3, What contributions will Tile PRESIDENT took thle Chair at 4..30 the employees make towards the fund? 4, p.,i., aind] lead prayers. To what extent will such contributions be -uppleinented by the 'Municipality? Hon. J. T. FRANKLIN: I shall have no QUESTION-CITY OF PERTH SUPER- objection to answering the question as soon ANNUJATION FUND BILL. as the reply has been prepared. I ann ob- The PRESIDENT: With reference to taining the information now, and will lay desires; that the question onl the Notice Paper, Mr. Love- it. on the Table if the House kin intimated, when giving notice of it, that that should be (lone. he recognised that it is contrary to Standing Order 87, which requires that a question SCHEME. should refer to a public matter before the MOTION-COLLIE POWER House, of which the member asked has HON. J. EWING (South-West) [4.39]: charge, when the member is not a 'Minister. I move- I, however, have no objection to acceding That in the opinion of this House the Gov- to the hon. member's request to fac- einent should forthwith proceed to establish ilitate what I am assured is the in the Collie coalfields area a generating plant capable of supplying electrical current for convenience of members generally, and lighitig and motive power throughout the therefore I had the question placed whole, or in the greater portion, of the State. on the Notice I'aper for a day that I was informed would enable it to be i'm My object in moving the motion is to sce, order. It is not in order now, and perhaps as far as possible, the opinion of Parlia- Air. Lovekin will either withdraw it, or ask mnent on one of the most iuportant ques- it on a later day when it may be in order. tions before the people of Western Austra- )ms. If hon. members, after discussing the Hon. A. LOVEKIN: You have stated the motion, think fit in carry it, I shall take ease quite correctly, Mr. President; but I the Opportunity, provided thie Leader of the anderstand that Mr. Franklin has no objet> House will expedite the matter during the tion to answering the question. Perhaps, session, to send the motion on to another in those circumstances, you will allowv himt place, in order that that place may have to give the information, which may be use- an opportunity of either approving or dis ful to the House. I could, of course, pilt approving of it. Thus the Government the question under the Standing Orders if would be given an op~portunity to learn the time Bill were here; and I had anticipated wishes of Parliament and act in accord- that the Bill would be here by this time. ance therewith., I approach the question However, it is not here, and therefore, As to-day with much greater confidence that, you say, I am outside the Standing Orders. over before, because of many happenings I understand, however, that Mr. Franklin in regard to electricity and coal supplies is willing to supply the information, and in which I anh sure are realised and recog nised those circumstances perhaps you, Sir, wvill by every member of the Chamber. There allow me to ask the question by leave of is no doubt whatever in my mind, and J the House. believe there is none in the minds of boy, The PRESIDENT: If the House has no members, that this is the electric age. All objection to the question being asked, and countries throughout the world are vyingr [26 SEPTBmt, 1928.] 919i

-with one another in Order to secure power went of the day, the Mitchell Government, cheaply for lighting purposes and 1other would give earnest and serious consideration purposes as well, so as to give the people to the question. Upon his assuring me of of their respective States all the possibili- that, I withdrew the motion. Again in No- ties which may be derived from this won- vemnber of 1921, the following year, I moved derful source of energy. In the United a much more comprehensive motion, ask- States of America, in Canada, England, and ing- for the aplpointnient of a Royal Corn- the various continental countries one see, mission to inquire into the working of the that the greatest attention is being given East Perth power Aation and also to deter- to this important question. In the coun- mine the best mneans of generating elec- tries I have named, and also in Denmark,, tricity in the State of Western Australia; Germany and Italy, more particularly, fither, mny motion suggested that the Com- every endeavour is heing made to furnish mission should be askrd to fix the site most cheap domestic power. 'My idea is that, al- suitable for the imrpose of a generating th ough we have an elec tric power station at plant. That was a nnich more conmprehen- East Perth which is a credit to Western sive motion than I had moved previously, Australia, it will be possible for tue to prove aind it had mnuch greater success. Hon. before closing that that station is not what mremibers gave the waiter close attention, this country needs to-day. During the course and determuined tlien that the time had ar- of my remarks Iljshall endeavour to prove that rived when something of this character contention, and I hope that if hon, mem- should be done. However, biothing was hers think differently, they wiU expres dlone, because, unfortunately for me, the their views, so that the Government may be end of the session came and the question explicitly informed of the feelings of the was debated here in the early hours of the respective Houses of Parliament on this sub)- morning. Those wh7o had anything to say ject. In my opinion Western Australia is against the mnotion were there on that oc- lagging behind in the matter of electric casion; and on a vo)te taken in a thin House power, and I desire that at least oiie section it was defeated. Ao I again lost the oppor- of the Legislature, the section of which we tunity of being able to say that this House, are members, shouMd express in no uncer- at least, recognised its responsibility in re- tain voice the feelings that animate it. I am gard to this great question. I bad been sure hion. members; will give to this question working for many years in the matter, to the attention that it so thoroughly deserves. the best of my ability; I could see, and now I ami aware that numerous memhers have see more clearly than ever, the necessity for given much great- study to the question something of this sort. Thereupon I got than I have, and I look to those hon. mem- into closer eoinu:ication with Mr. Scad- bers to speak not only of what they have dan, Minister for Railways in the Mitchell read and heard, hult of wvhat some of them Government. I had a written controversy have ac-tually seen in the United States and with that gentlemn. Thorn him I received Canada. I have not seen those countries, a letter stating Lhat if I reconsidered the nor the great electric works existing there. matter 10 years hence, it would be ample If the lion. members I refer to will. give the time. That was in 1021. 1 did not agree House their iewsz, I am sure those Views with Mr. Seaddan's views, and fought the will he instructive and elevating. In 1920 matter out with him as far as, I could by I had the hionour of moving in this Chamber correspondence,.1I am sure that what was a resolu1tionl Of practically the same char- troubling Mr. Seaddan at the time, and acter as the present motion, though not so) also troubling the Superintendent of the far-reaching. On that occasion the Leader Electricity Supply Department was the of the Council, 'Mr. Colebatch, now Sir Hal fact that they lied excellent circulating Colebatch, gave great attention to the sub- water for the scheme in the present posi- ject. Several lion. members expressed their t-ion, but that there was a poss;ibility of sympathy with the motion, andi gave me their not being able to secure circulating their support. But the end of the session water from the Collie River. Having a drew near and ihe matter could not be fall knowledge of the position in regard to fully thrashed out-I hope that will *not the river, I could see no possibility of fail- happen on this occasion-and the then ure ini that direchen. fn 1923 the Mitchell Leader of the House said that the Govern- Government, real ising the position that was [COUNCIL]

obtaining, recogL-nsing the huge amount of tin for the construction of that scheme, energy that could be supplied, considered niot for the whole of Western Australia, but that the best thing was to appoint a Royal 1oe, aij important portion of the South- Commission to inqutire into the question of West. If that sechemne were to be carried, a power station fpor the South-West. The it was neecessary that certain people should personnel of the Commission appointed was join ini it. mid that the coal mines should M1essrs. Taylor, Williamson, Reading, King, take all their power fromt the schieme, while Clark, Lumb, and A. A. Wilson, M.L.A. the municipalities of Buribury and Collie I have here the report of that Commission, huddo likewise. which was laid en the Talble during last Hen, A. Ljovekin: And the mines could Session, If lion. members- bare not seen it, charge what they liked for the coal used. they are welcome to peru*; this copy of lien. J. EWING : No, the price of the mine. One outcome of the Commission was coal was fixed at 12s, Gd. per ton. How- that the bogey raised by Mr. Seaddan and ever, although that scheme was meconi- Mr. Taylor was, set !side for all time. The mended to the Glovernment, it has not been report states that in the Minninup Pool, can icd ont. It is to the credit of the Leader somte 30 or 40 feet in depth, there are ample of the Government that, realising the value supplies of water for any electrical scheme, of power and desiring to do all he could to even to supply not only the imamediate dis- iucrease the productive powver of the State, trict hut the whole of the State. lie g-ave his consent to the bringing down- Hon. G,. W. Mites: You mean the South- of the Bill. The Bill was brought in at a West of thle State3. very late stage in the session. We had a Hon. J. EWING: No, I do not. considerable debate on it. The Hill was in Hon. G. W. Miles: But when you use a fair way to being defeated when a vital Minister the term "the whole of the State," you must clause was deleted. However, the mean only the South-West, including, say, stucek to his guns. and eventually succeeded Perth and Kalgoorlie. in baring the Bill carried. Hon. J. J. Holmes: But Collie and Hun- Ron. J. EWING: I muean that the cir- bury did not go on with the scheme. culating water would be sufficient to supply Hion. 'SJ EWING: That is so. Mr. Love- not only a power station for the South- kin does not believe in any pettifogging West scheme, but one capable of dealing schemre. I agree with bunt in that, and I with a State-wide scheme. The Commission, hope hie Will give me his support for the in the course of their investigations and p~resent coin prebeonsive, motion. Mr. Miles work, decided that there was sufficient air- raised the question of impounding the culnting water for a power house in Collie wate~r. That had a considerable bearing on designed to supply current throughout this House, and Mr. Mile; was successful Western Australia. in carrying his motion, eliminating that Hon. H. Seddon: Would that supply of provision from the Bill. However, the water he sufficient during the summerl Minister recommitted the Bill, and eventu- Hon. J. EWING: Yes, that has been ally it Was carrie4. Although nothing has ascertained. So also it has been determined been done since, the Bill is still on the that at a point fire or six miles South of statute-hook. It relates to the South-West the Minninup Pool the river could be raised scheme entirely and does not touch the by 2ft. or Sft.. and so made to supply more great question I am raising to-day. The circulating water than would be required reason for that is apparent: an agreement for a scemne covering the whole of the s;atisfactory to the Government could not State. be reached by the collieries, and so the lion, A. Lovekin: And they could cool Premier has taken up the position that be the circuilating water, as is; donre in other will not grant to any one section of the places. lomnmunity what he cannot grant to another. Hon. J. EWING: Yes, hut the depth of Therefore the thingn ha; fallen to the hue Ainninup Pool is so great that the ground. The erection of the East Perth water would be sufficiently cool. So, es I say, Power station iR well remembered by mem- that bogey has been entirely set aside. This bers, and so it is; not necessary for me to report, of course, deals primarily with the speak at any length in respect to it, except stiwrested power scheme for the South- to show what the capitalisation of that West. We know what happened to that. Scheme is, what it means to Western Aus- The report contaiin a distinct recommends- tralia, and what we shall be up against in [26 SnPmrnn, 192M]92 921 the near future unless something be done in to show how very serious it is. To thi. respect of it. Mr. Taylor has managed the credit of the East Perth power station it station exceedingly well, but I do not re- can be said that whereas the cost per unit member that lie has ever rec-ommended the generated in 1927 was .9.5d., in 1928 it fell Government to sujpersede that scheme by to .93d1., an improvement of .02d1. per unit. one that would lie worthy of the State. The average selling price in 1927 was As showing thle wonderful increase in the .972d. per uinit, whereas in the report be- consumption of electricity during the past fore mre it is shown to have been reduced few years, let inc quote thmee figures: In to 9.66d., or n improvement of .006d1. per 1919 there were 13,000,000 units consumed; unit. These figutres ]have to he quioted in ia 1920 it was 18,000,000; in 1921 it was decimal points, and miembers will realise 22,000,000; in 1922 it was 27,000,000; in that one decimial point mlay have a very 1023 it wvas 31,000,000; in 1924 it was serious hearing onl the whole question. As 39,000,000; in 1025 it was 44,000,000; in showing how high a price has been charged 1926 it wa.s 50,000,000:. in 1927 it was for some of this electricity, I may say 54,000,000, and the lateit report shows that the Perth Tram ways pay 1.25d. per unit. dluring time Year just eIosed it ro ,e to The manager of the Perth Tramways is also 61,000,000 units,. Over the period quoted, mainger of the Electricity fDepartment. In I lie avetrage amnnual inecase has been a wily he is robbing Peter to pay Paul. He 4J000,000 umit.,, while in 1928 the units is charging the Perth Tramnways l.25d. and generated totalled 70,269,i00O. So members letting certain other consumers have their ill realise, as has been realisedI in other electricity at .9)66d1. We conic now to a very c-ountries, what gigantic strides have been interesting- point, one that has been de- mande in the use of ele(ctrivity. We have bated fully in this House from time to tune here an instance that members can see for and has- been the subject of a controversy themseveA, and I am satisfied they will ap- between the Mayor of Perth and others. I 1ireriate what is being done and so will see what is necessary to give the people what allude to the position of the Perth City ihier require in the way of electricity. Council. We all know thle history of this H1on. J. J1. Holmcs;: What is thle maxi- mnatter. When the- Bill brought in by Mr. lilin capacity of time plaint Scacin, the then Premnier, was passed, the Hon. J. EWING : About 16 kilowatts. department entered into anl agreemuent for H-on. .1. J1. Holmes: You say they sold 50 years to supply tile City' Council with 61,000,000 units; last year. How muchb could electricity at .75d1. per Linir. In conse- they have produncdo quence a heavy loss to the department has Rion. J. E"WING,: By' adding sufficient taken lplace onl account of the price charged plant, they could produce enough for the the Perth City Council for electricity. I whole of the State. aim not taking any exception to it. The Haon. A. Lovclkin: Yes, hut they would Perth City Couincil ma1fde a wonderful deal. want more plant. Subsequently' the Freinantle Municipal Ion. J1. EWING: I nt tr 'ving to prove Council entered into n agreement to take that it' would not be econoicaln to do it. electricity at .8.51,, a little higher thtan the An effort is being made in that direction. price chargerd the Perth City Council. And I "In op)posed to it. not ibecauqe I represent for bulk suipplies, which is most necessary Collie. but hrcau~ze T am speaking to-day For cheap production when people are sole~ly in thle interes;ts of thle people, of building up industries and improving the Western Australia. 1.4 ins turn to the position of the State! they have to pay enPitalisation of the East Perth power sta- 1.0411. per uinit. That is a very high price tionl. In the annuall report for 1928 it as hon. members will see when I am able to stood at £022,355. Another unit has been place before them the position as it exists added, which will in crease the capital isation in other countries. by over L300.000. I Din not quite clear Hon. J. J1.Holmnes: Tell us what it costs as to what is meant by the paragraph to produce. dcalinz with this; point, bitt at all events Ron. J. EWING: It costs .93d1. per cent. this now uinit increases the eapital isation either b)'y £3100,000 or by £-500,000. So even Hon. J. J. Holmes: And it is sold to thle t:,kincz the lower fifitre, thle capitalisatian Citv Council at .75d. has been increased to £41,222,000. That Hon. J. EWING: I ami not arguing that being so, it is a serious position. I hope the East Perth Power station is not doing [COUNCIL.] excellent work, but if it is compared with in England, lie attended the electrical con- the power stations in other countries, it ference and incidentally it may be men-, will be found that East Perth is producing tioned that he did very good work there for electricity cheaply, though not as cheaply Western Australia. He Went into the ques- as it might do. Thle aim A have inl view in tion of pulverized coal and returned eon- bringing this matter forward is to show vinced of its great value. Not only Mr. that it is possible to produce current much Taylor, hut others as eminent as he is, real- cheaper per unit. and that by bringing- ise the enormous advantages to he derived about a reduction, an enormous advantage from Ahe use of pulverised coal and the will be gained by the coiunaity generally. saving that is going to he effected. I would Hon. fl., W%.Miles: At what price do von like to r-eadl -what I saw in this morning's reckon it can be produeed at Collie!I newspaper in regard to power fuel- Hon. J. LAWlNO: I will tell the hion. London, Sept. 24.-Lord Beading presided member that later. The great trouble in ait the Third World Power Conference on fuel, conneption with the East Perth power which opened in the Imperial Institute to- day inl the presence of 1,500 delegates, repre- station is the freight onl the coal that senting 48 countries. is brought from Collie. No less than Sir Robert Horne, in his presidential ad- £63,000 worth of coal per annum is being dress, said that coal was the potential saviour conveyed to the East Perth power house. of every counitry, whether it was bituminous, Those figulres represent a. tomnge of 104,000 aihlraeite, or lignite, where it involved time product ion of electricity, gas or chemicals. It on which quantity freight has to be paid :ilso constitutedl the basis of industry in B3rit- at thle rate of 12s. per ton. The increase ain and the Domninions, with the eCeCptiOlL of in the coal consumption in tile last live Cainaia, which had vast water power, but the has been 92,000 tons, oither- Dominions, like Britain were dependent years at East Perth onl coal Ile denied the possibility of oil super- If all that coal has to be carried frow seding coal, and said that miost inmportnt de- Collie to East Perth, the cost Nis to lie de- velopmenats were proceedig in low tempera- bited against the workin~r of the Power tLure -aitomisatiom, hydrogenation, and put- cowscquentlyv there cannot verisation which, separately or together, were Qtation and olesti,,ed to revolutiomnise thie use of coal. Our- be any hope of a reductioni in the cost o1t x121VIS kVading the 'iorld in the utilisation current. The production last year was lf'rowna coal. 70,000,000 units and this nicant .2.16d. pai I ami fortunate indeed in having been able. unit to carry the coal froml Colie(. As I to rend *this to hon, members, especially have already said, the current was pro- when we remember that the present is an duced at .93d. and thle loss on freighits Was age when everybody is endeavour-ing to re- .216d., so that the production Wonld have place coal fuel with oil. When lion, mem- been about .714d. per unit if freight on coal bers think of the improvements that are had not been charged up. Against that there must bie put the cost of transmnitting possible in connection with the production power from Collie to Perth and also of electricity by using plnverised coal, they other charges in the event of electricity must realise that the reductions to followv being generated at Collie. All those T have will be greater even than I have saiid, and worked out at .18 per unit for loss in trans- I have the greatest hope that if the scheme mission oC the power to Perth. I am now advocating is Caried out, it Will Hon. H. Seddon: How do you arrive ait be possible to sell current at .5d, per unit, those figures? or less than .d. Pmer unit throughout the Hon. J. EWING: I have them here in State. I have figures to prove what ha.- my calculations. I do not pretend to be been done in other countries as the result a technical mnan, bunt I have a fair amount of using pulverised coal and it will be thle of commonsense. If my figures a-c not same in Western Aushralia. With the re- exactly right T hope hon. members will for- search work that is going on, I am con- give me. I have worked out the cost of vinced that in the not distant future it will production at Collie at .78d, per unit, which be possible to reduce the cost to the con- is enormous when one considers what might sumner to a miinimum. As electrical mnach- happen. The saving in pound;, shilling; inery is improved and as people realise and peace would be in the region of £45,000 the importance of using current, what is after allowing for the carriage of coal, happecning in other countries must also hap- transmission, oe. When Mr. Taylor was pen in Western Australia. Last session at [26 SEnnnn, 198492 923 my instigation the Chief Secretary laid on Hon. G. W. Miles: Did you not say that the Table of the House the file dealing with Mr. Taylor had given evidence in favour the negotiations carried on by the Govern- of generating power elsewhere? ment with regard to the South-West power Hon, J. EWING: Yes, after reaching au scheme. 1n that file Mr. Taylor declared output of 40,000,000 units. At the present that when the consumption of electricity time the output. is 70,000,000 units, and in had increased to 40,000,000 units per ii- his report to the Government he asks for num, the time wvould then have arrived for authority to carry out extensions at East going further into the matter and seeing- Perth, not in a few years' time, but inmmed- whether electricity could not he generated iately. I have no fault to find with Mr. at the source of the coal supply. Also, be- Taylor, who is an able man, but I cannot fore several committees of which I had the help saying that he is not studlying the best honour to be a member, M1r. Taylor Said interests of Western Australia when he over and over again that the ultimate re- makes a recommendation such as that I have sult of his researches showed that althoughi lust read. Such a recommendation is not be could supply current from East Perthi a credit to him. Neither does it reflect and supply it well, what he had to consider credit on the Comimissioner of Railways. as an officer of the Government was the Hon. A. Lovekin: If the plant were Lit question of producing- cheaper current by Collie, hoe would he using slack coal. erecting a power house elsewhere, not neces- Hon. J. EWING: Of course. sarily at Collie. Menmher: What would it cost? Hon. A. Lovekin: Mr. Taylor says in his H1on. J. EWINCG: Perhaps a million of report that the present power plant will money would he ifll that would be required reach its limnit in December, 19)29. at the present imne. In connection with Hon. J. EWING: The position is that the oxtra eapitali.sationi proposed by Mr. the limit of 40,000,000 units was reached in Taylor, L w$isht to point out that if hh-- 1024, and tlint since that time there has Hehemie is earried o'ut the capitalisation of been erected another unit at a cost of be- the East Perth power house will be in the tween £300,000 and £400,000. If hon. meni- reg-ion of one and three-quarter millions of hers will look uip the report of the Comt- money. It muLst hie recognised that that missioner of Railways, they will see what schemec has been provided for the purposes Mr- Ta-ylor has recommended that the Gvo%-- of the metropolitan area aind the surround- erment should do. If anything is to be ing districts. M.%r.Taylor Cannot trans- done in the State, it should he done pro- mit current elsewhere unless lie gets the perly; yet we have an of-bcer of the Gov- lpermiission of the Government, and I do ernment -now expressing an opinion dia- not think he Could carry out successfully metrically opposed to that which he gave any scheme by which lie would try to send before select committees, and also to 1)8 power back to Collie. That means to say found on the fles. The time has arrived that the people in the metropolitan area are when power should be generated fnrthc2r deriving from the existing scheme, benefits away. This is what lie reports to time Com- that nri- not available to other portions of missioner of Railways- the community. I ami not raising that The load is immcreasing at such a rate that point as an objection to the people of Perth early consideratonm should be given to furtlier securing those henefts. I do not wish to extensions to the power station, and I would make the City) loaineil pay more for their recommend duplicating the last boiler plant electricity supplies. Mvy object is to pro- extension amnd installing a 12,500 k.w. turbo- generaor: time boilers to be in operation by cinee current, under the scheme I advocate, December, 1929, aind the turbo-genierator in at such a rate tlint the City Council will June. T930. I have already submnitted a de- pay less. The existing agreement between amI T tailed report wvith reconumedatious, the Government an1d the City Council pro- again strongly urge that early ac~tion be taken. vides9 that the Council shall pay the cost That, to my mind, is appalling, comaing as price provided it is not greater than .75d. it does from the manager of the system, If the Government were to adopt the scee after the opinions he expressed before. An I am outlining, they should he able to re- extension such as he proposes can only lie duce the price of current to .dl. per unit. carried out at an expenditure of half a If that were done the City Council would million of money. save as a result of the change-over. The 924 [COUNCIL.]

fact remains, howwver, that at the present Yallourn to Melbourne, a distance of 110 time the people of the metropolitan area miles, the bulk of it being transmitted at and the surrounding districts are served 11,000 volts, while the maximum is stepped by a scheme that orovides them with bene- up to 132,0001 volt,. I do not know if hon. fits that arc deniedi to people living in other members have bad an opportunity to per- parts of Western Australia. I make no use the eighth annual report of the Stato apology for speaking at length on this Electricity Comimis.4in of Victoria. If (Ji!Cst!Of, because it is an important onie. I they have not, I canl assure them that thev desire to point, out what has happened in ;vil i find munch to cul ighten them contained other parts of the world, itot necessarily ii in that documnitu. It will enable them t.o Canada, in England or onl the Continent, see what is being lone in, Victoria, and that but in Australia, a:. well, In 1917, the Vic- will give them some idea of what could be torian Government were so much alarmed done in) Western Australia. at the trempndous increase in the consump- 1103. A. Tiovekin: 1I Victoria they were tion of electricity, that they appointed anl at long wvay out inl their estimates. advisory committee to consider the position. Hon. J. EWING: I will admnit that. Victoria is particularly without black coal Holl. H. A. Stephenson : Yes, by 200 per deposits. The Wonthaggi mines have been' cent. in operation for some little time, turning out black coal, hut they do Riot seem to be Hon. J. EWVING: The schenie has cost in the running at all. The black coal used a tremendous amont of monley. in Victoria conies principally from New ll. J. Nicholson: Howr much? South Wales. Hont. 3. EWING : I will deal with that Hon. 0. W. Miles: It is mostly brow, jpoint later on1. Irrespective of what it has coal in Victoria. cost, the filct reains that all Governments Hon. J. EWING: Yes. At any rate, the that have been in power have luinhesita - Victorian Government appointed a Comn- ulgh' prov idted thle lands necessary when mission to consider the question of brown requested to don so) by Sir John AMonash. In coal supp)ies withtin the State, and that con1sequenice of thant, Victoria is obtaining, body went thoroughly into the question. won derful resul ts to-tla v. Within eight to nine nontlit the 'y reported Haon. A. Lovekin: They have done well. to the Government that tile time had ar- Hon. F1.J. H-olmes: How' much money did rived wvhen an Electricity Commission the Victorian Giovernmlent hove to findo should be formed. The mnembers of that hody' were so g-rateful as the result of their Hon. J. EW[ NG: I will come to that investigation that they made it clear that, poin t. Not ou in iAIelhourne is the elec- in their opinion, the time had arrived when friei tv a vailable fromt the power house at .someone should be placed in a responsible Yallourn, but it is transmuitted to other parts% position and given power to evolve a scheme of the State as weIll, to, the nodth, Sonuth, for the ntflisation of the brown coal sup- east anrd west. Not only' is thle power tra ns- plies. The Gove;-nment took the matter in inittedl to all parts of the State, but hand at once, and appointed to Electricity it is made avai ilable at a greatly redneed Conmiisgioner. They were esceeding-ly for- price. As such a schenie proceeds andi the innate in their ch:oiee, for they secured the vleetri ci ly is iore animhore extensively services of Sir John Mfoovsh, kznown not used for dometstiv. industrial and farinint only as a war hero), but ats one of the great- puposes, it nt irallv becomnes chieaper. It est civil engineers t hat we have in the Coin- wias at revelation to one to learn what w-as monwcalth. Sir John Monash wvent straight heing done witHi leetricity' on tine farms, not only~ in Victoria, bill in Denmark, andt ahead and lic recommended the Government T to erect at power house at Yallourn, about i, other countries of the world. n these five miles from Mlorwell. A start was made (lays farmers mnilk cowvs. plough lound, anad in 1020 when the Government provided feed stock by menis of electricity. £1.890 as a preliminary vote. The power Honl. . Nicholson: They will soon hie house was built mainly owing to the energy doing- awnay with horses and tractors ais and ability of Sir John Monash, who dis- well. played grat foresight in his activities. As Hon. A. J. HT. Slaw: Theyv will substitute the result electricity is transmitted from electricity for milk soon! [26 SurrnzaE, 1928.]92 925

Hon. J. EWINKG: 1 will admit that month onl the average, the charge is .3d. the vapitalisation of the schemile in Victoria per unit. has -been very heavy. Starting in 1920 with flon. A. tovekin: The scheme you ad- a preliminary vote of £1,980, at the end of vocate, and the position in Melbourne can eight years, which brings the consideration survely riot he reg-arded as comparable. of the scheme up to the time of the issuing Non. J1. EWTING: No. of the report to which I have already re- Hon. A. Lovekin: You will get nowhere ferred, the capita] involved had increased by such a. compI~arison. to £9,586,161. Since then the figure has H-on. J, EWING: I will admit that, but been increased to £11,000,000 and I believe I amn pointinge out these facts to show that it is contemplated thle expenditure will has been supplied in Victoria reach £13,000,000 very soon. that current flon. Sir William Lathinin: The cost of at .3d. per unit. the briquetting scheme is included in that lifon. G4.AV. 'Miles: Ts the coal at Mor- estimate. well as good as our Collie coal? Ron, J1. EWIN,\G: I do not intend to Hon. J. EWING : Collie coal is much weary hon. members regarding all the better. Then again, in Victoria they have phases of the scheme, including briquet- the restricted hour rate, which is optional ting. We may participate in such pro- where the consumption takes place, as a duction iii years to comne, but we have not rule, at night time. During the hours be- a))proximated that stage yet. It is true, tween 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. the next day, the however, that the cost of the briquetting rate for big blocks of current is .5d. per scheme is included in the figures I have kilowatt hour. In that instance, the rate is mentioned. Incidentally I might mention not quite as low as in the other I have that the briquetting- scheme has proved en- quoted, but it serves to demonstrate what is tirely satisfactory. being done in Victoria. As Mr. Lovekin interjected, we cannot compare the pcpula- Hon. Sir William Lathinin: And it is tions. of Perth and Melbourne, At the same the most profitable part of thle operation. time we have great hopes that the popula- lHon. J. J. Holmes: Can you tell us tion of Western Australia will increase by what it costs to produce electricity there? leaps and bounds in the very near future. Hon. J. EWING: T have not had time If we were to make a start with the scheme to go into all the details. On page 9 of the I advocate we will build it up as our Victorian Electricity Commission's report, population grows. lion. members will see that they have fixed Hon. A. Lovekin: That is merely a state- a standard electricity supply tariff for the ment of common law, If -you provide the metropolitan area. Current is distributed facilities, you will get the consumption. in various parts of Melbourne and to other Hon. J. EWING: That is so. There is centres throughout the State on specified much in the report of the Victorian Elec- conditions. When I quote figures from tricity Commission that is of great interest, the report, hon. members will realise that but I have no intention of going through its they can verify my statements by a perusal contents in detail. I have merely touched of thle official documents. For domestic pur- upon some of the salient features that seem poses the current is supplied 1%Ad. per unit, to me to have some bearing on the motion I and there is a block rate for power and have tabled. If hon. members look through heating tinder which people are charged 2d. that report and compare the value of Afer- per kilowatt hour -up to a consumption of well coal -vith that 'of 'Collie coal, they 500 kilowatt hours: on supplies exceeding will discover a considerable advantage 1~,500 kilowatt hours, the charge is 11/4 d, per in favour of our local product, There is as kilowatt hour: for 20,000 kilowatt hours, much as 65 per cent. moisture in Morwell .9d, and for the balance, .Sd. There is also coal. I admit that in Nietoria that coal provided a maximum demand rate. That is mined at a very low price. It is mined at applies whrlen the great factories are using from 2s. 6d. to 3s. per ton in an open cut; the current and manufacturers and others the maining there is not carried on as is are uising it in bulk at various points necessary at Collie, where the coal lives throughout the city. Under the maximum down. demand rate, whichl is optional where con- Hon. G. W. Miles: What does Collie coal sumption exceeds 5,000 kilowatt hours per cost to mine?7 [COUNCIL.] -

Hon. J. EWING: About 12s. 6d. a ton sorry that M.1r. Stewart is not in his place for small coal. because he has a lot of information about. Hon. A. Lovekin: For mining at Collie! Tasmania. In that State, however, there is Hon. J. EWING: No, I think it is 7i. a hydroelectrie scheme supplying electric- 6d. a ton for the class of coal used at East ity at a rate as low as that in any part of Perth power station, -which is third grade. Australia and probably in the world. Al- Iam not quite sure about the figures; the though Tasmania is a small State, the an- price is either 7s. 6d. or 12s. 6d. per ton. thori ties have not hesitated to spend thc Hon. G. W, Miles: Is that tihe selling cost necessary money and give encouragement to or the mining cost? the generation of cheap electrical powver for Hon, J. EWING: That is the selling industrial purposes, price at the pit's side for this class of coal. Hon. A. Lovekin: That is a "wh ite coaF' Hon. G. W. Miles: But is that what it scheme. costs the company to mine, or is that the Hon. H. A. Stephenson: Tasmania does price at which they sell to the Government? not have to fall back on coal, Hon. J. EWIKOG: That is the Price at Hon. J. EWING: That is so. In New which they sell to the'Government for this South Wares there are several power sta- class of coal. I am not engaged in the sup- tions and the authorities are conteniplating plying of coal just now and I. do not know the installation of a hyd co-electric scheme the exact figures. I believe the price operated by the waters of the Snowy River. charged is 7s. 6d, for small duff coal or l2 - If that scheme is installed I believe the 6d.: I am not sure which it is price of electricity in that State will be very The PRESIDENT: The time for consil- low indeed. In New Zealand and Queens- ering motions has ceased. land thec authorities are alive to the position Resolved: That motions be continued. and are doing, everything possible to give Hon. J. EWING: I thank members. for the people what T hope will be provided their courtesy in allowing me to proceed. for our people, namely, the cheapest power Hon. J. J. Holmes: Is it a fact that the possible. America hats often been referred Collie miners work only 35 hours a week'i to as the home of electricity. Operations Hon. J. EWING: They work about seven in that country are being carried. further hours a day. afield every day. In Canada the horse- Hon, J. J. Holmes: And only five days a power is being increased and] wonders are week9q being achieved. Americ-a has hyd re-electric Hon. J. EWING: On pay day they do schemes as well as coal schemes for the sup- not work at all. However, I do not wish plJy of electrical current. Canada seemns to to discuss that matter; in fact, I prefer tu be the only country of the world which kee-p clear of questions of that kind. relies solely on hydro-eleetric power for Hon. J. J. Holmes: We have to pa-y for gene-rating electricity. I wish to show it. clearly that the transmission of current .4on. J. EWING: I am placing before over long distanei at a high voltage is the country a scheme in which I thoroughly qjuite feasible. At one tinie it was sup- believe. If I did not represent Collie 'and posed that it could not he done, but the if I1 had no interest in Collie, I would still voltage has, been carried to 1.32,000, and I be found advocating this scheme. In _Vifi- have b~een informed that power can now be toria the advantages accruing from the transmitted over a distance of 2300 or 400 large capital expenditure and the wonder- miles. Hon. G0.W. Miles: That is the limit? ful energy put into the Yallourn scheme have proved a boon to that State- When Ron. J. EWING: I do not know that it the scheme was first suggested Sir John is. Further discoveries and greater power Monash and others associated with him were of concentration may lead to current heing severely criticised by the Melbourne "Age" transmitted over much greater distances. and other newspapers, as well ats by prom- Hon. 0. W. 'Miles: What is the percent- inent men, but to-day the Commission is age of loss in transmission? receiving credit for having done a wonder- Hon. 3. EWING: For power transmitted ful work for Victoria, and I hope that a over long distances the eficcy is 93 similar work will be done for Western Aus- per cent. That means a loss of only 7 per tralia by the Collier Government. I am cent. [26 SEPTEMBER, 1928.] 9272

Hon. A. Lovekin: It is more than that the number of generating stations from 135 over to 18, and by a system of overhead lines, to ait Winnipeg, where it is transmitted convey current at the pressure stated above, about the same distance as Collie. is f rom Perth. Tbat confirms all I have said about the lion. J. EWING: There may be a greater enormous 1035 due to scattered and ineffi- loss over a shorter distance; I cannot say. cient plants in England, and the efficiency In eountries. like Germany, France, Italy, that has been obtained by a Commission Denmnark and Switzerland, the development working- probably on the lines of the Vic- of eleetrk-aI generation has progressed by torian Commission. To reduce the number leaps and bounds, and the closest attention of generating stations from 135 to 18 is has been gihcn to the question of providing certainly a great achievement. The report cheap power for farming operations, domnei- continues- tic purposes, andi all kinds of industrial It is estimated that, when the scheme is in -activities, thtus adding to the economic full working order, the average cost of elec- -wealth and prosperity of the people. I tricity, which now varies greatly in different localities, will be reduced to lid, per unit. should like to see the wealth and prosperity of our people unequalled in naiy other part Hon. 0. W. Milos: Should not. that be a of the world. In England during the war farthing per unit? grave trouble was exp~erienced in the matter Hon. J. ENWING: I am not in a position of getting adequate power supplies. All to combat the cable message. through England at that time the cry arose Hon. 0. for power and yet more power generated W"rMiles:- I think it is wrong. by electricity. The whole of England was lion. J. EWTNGC: So do 1, hut I had to in the news- found to be so thoroughly disorganised in quote the cable as it appeared .paper. It seems to the matter of electrical supplies that the be wrong; it ma-y be object is to place requisite power could not he obtained. a printer's error. The the electrical supplies of England upon a Immediately Lloyd George---hat wvonderful .sure and safe foundation, and that is to he man-took ollice hp set to work to improve done by concentration of plant and reduc- the supply, but he "'as not able to accom- tion of price for the power generated. If plish much owing- to the economic waste the same thing could be done here, we also consequent upon the numerous scattered plants. Since then a Commission named should he in a better position. It is neces- sary for us to encourage industrial produc- the Central. Electricity Board has been ap- pointed, to the work of which I should like tion and give opp-ortunitie and advantages to refer. It is mentioned in the cable mes- to all1 sections of the people. To do that, sages in this morning's newspaper and I a power house should be erected at a centre consider myself fortunate in having an determined by the Gov-ernment to be in the opportunity to read this report to the best interests of the State. Western Aus- House. It states-- tralia ui-gently requires the cheapest pro- ducetion of electrical power and I ask In1 connietion with ti electricity scheme whether that can he secured by building up for -Souti-East England, the Central Electric- it;- Board ~spae ot actsaoluting to from year to rear the present powver sta- about £1,000,000 for the construction of tion at East Perth. I can state confidently 1-l2,000 volt transmission lines in that area. tHant the capitalisation of the East Perth The Central Electricity Board was estab- rower house, which is nowv well over lishmed under last year's ",ee~rieity Supply £1,600,000, is no credit to any Government Act. The comnissioners assumned that the out- that has contributed to its developmnent. I pot in Britain will douible every eight years, and that ait the end of 1941 about 450 units do not except any' one Government. If the per head of the population will be consumed. sixth unit recommuended by 'Mr. Taylor is The standard voltage for the L-rid tranpsmission istalled, it will not he a fair thing to the network whvich it is proposed to establish has bee,, fixed at 13D,000 volts, and the secondary people of the State gener-ally because the transmission lines will operate at 32,000 volts. people of the metropolitan area, and no one Tme first scheme adopted by the board cov- else, will benefit from it. Probably the dine ered 5.000 square miles in Scotland, and in- will come when from the East Pe rth power eluded Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Diim- house we shall transmnit to Collie, the source barton. The South-East England area, for which contracts for transmission lin~es have of the fuel supply, the electrical power -re- now been placed, includes London, and has a quired by that town. Such a suggeution total area of 8,828 square miles, with a popu- may appear laughable, but it is the logical lation of 11,500,000. It is proposed to reduce outcome of the policy laid down by the [COUI~hL.]

Government. The use of electricity is in- will be no trouble in securing the two mil- creasing tremendously and provision must lions required for this scheme, at 1 per be made to supply it, but if the present cent. for the first two years, and at 1 / or policy of increasing the capitalisation of 2 per cent. for the ensuing years. I wish the East Perth plant is pursued, it will be to emphasize the advantages that would tantamount to drivingo another nail in the accrue to the State under this scheme. At coffin of the Collie scheme. present the advantages of an electricity Ron. G. W. Mliles: Have you estimated scheme are being given only to one section the cost of the scheme at Collie? of the commuonity; they are denied to other Hon. J. EWING: I have quoted the cost sections. It is uindemiocratic to pick out of the Yallourn scheme to date. one section of the community for a particu- Hon, J. Nicholson: Would it not be bet- lar advantage. We are all supposed to be ter to get a report on the Collie scheme? democratic and to consider the wants and Hon. J. EWING: The Government seem desires of the whole community. People to realise the need that something should be around Bunbury, Collie and the other dis- done. When the Premier returned from tricts affected should have the right to the England he spoke enthusiastically of what to was being done in other countries and of cheap power that would be transmitted the wonderful efficiency obtained there, cifi- them, just as another section of the com- cieney based upon exceedingly cheap sup- munity has that right uinder the other plies of electricity. What we need is a scheme. super power scheme at the source of supply. Hon. G. AV. Miles: And the people on If the East Perth plant is extended, the the wheat belt and oa the goldfields also. haulage of the coal to Perth will represent Hon. J. EWING: T had overlooked the an ever-present cost that mTust inevitably mining areas. If a circle were described militate against the possibility of supply- from Collie with a radius of 250 miles, it ing current at cheap rates. The East Perth would extend over a considerable portion plant cannot be made to show the lowest of Western Australia. It would go a long possible 'production costs when it is neces- way towards Geraldton, would cover every- sary to haul the coal a distance of 125 miles thing to the south, extend far into the sea from the source of supply. The outlay re- at Albany, and the only places left out quired to instal a central plant at Collie would be Geraldton, -Kalgoorlie and the may appear to be large. great North-West. Ron. G. W. Miles: Cannot we get cheap Hon. A. J. H. Saw: Do you know what money for this? this would cost? Hon. J. EWING: Under thle Migration Hlon. J. EWING: About two millions of Agreement entered into by this Government money. provision is made for the ulse of part of Hon. A. J. H. Saw: Does that include the £34,000,000 of money for migration all the radiating centres you have referred purposes, and for hydro-eetric and other to? schemes. Hon. J. EWING: It does not cost much Hon. G1. W. Miles: Especially if we get to transmit current. our material fromn the Old Country. Hon. J. Cornell: A couple of millions i5 Hon. J. EWING: Yes. neither here nor there. Hon. J, Nicholson: How will that affect Ron. J. EWING: If members think I the tables that were produced on the occa- am aiming too high in this matter, I trust sion of the Financial Agreement Bill? they will say so when they come to speak Hon. J. EWING: I do not think they upon the subject. will be affected. Ron. J. Nicholson: Have you considered Hon. J. Nicholson: Will it not mean in- making provision for the electrification of creasing the amiount that we borrow? the spur lines leading off from the main Hon. J. EWINGT: I think not. The lines? Premier has already considered, the posi- Hon. J. EWTNfI: Certainly. tion, hnt I do not know at what result he Hon. J. Nicholson: A big saving might has arrived. I know be has given the mat - be effected there. ter scrions attention. I do not think he has Hon. J1. EWING: In eases where the quite decided whether he can get this money' gradients arc as steep as one in forty, or not. If he can do so, I feel sure there trains that are run by electricity can trans- 0 [20 Sarransa, 1928.] 9292 port a heavy load without trouble. I do lection of some fees- and some money. The not wish to burden nmy remarks by entering Honorary Minister, in introducing it, did into too much detail. I believe the genera- not say a great deal about its merits or de- tion of electricity at Collie could be carried merits, but rather confined himself to the out cheaply, and would be disposed of habits of the fish. His remars 'were exr- cheaply, more especially if the current ceedingly interesting. As I am not a whal- were used also for the electrification of the ing man I did not know as much about the railways. The consumption in units would industry as I do now. I find, however, that undoubhtedly be enormous. The districts the Bill is far from being a harmless one. immediately surrounding Collie, where the If a whaling indastry did exist off the coast current would be generated, would also de- of Western Australia, this measure would rive great advantage from the scheme. do it a great deal of harm. If we carry it, Hon. J. Cornell: What about the line undoubtedly it would mean closing up the running to the Bunbury racecourse?7 industry. Unfortu~nately, at present the The PRESIEDENT: Order! whaling industry exists in one company Hon. J. EWING: I thank members for only. This is a struggling company. The listening to my remarks with so much undertaking has had its difficulties in the patience. They may consider this a fetish past. and it is having its difficulties now. of mine. I am sure my colleagues from thle If the Bill is carried, it will strangle this South-West w'ill speak to the motion, as particular company as well as the industry. well as those who are deeply interested ii, Hon. A. Lovekin: If you regulate the the advancement and development of industry, more companies will spring up. the State. If this motion is car- lion. Sir EDWARD WITTENOOM: In rTied and sent to another place, t order to make the matter clear, I wish to feel sure the Government will not oppose give a few details concerning the company it. At all events, they wvill see what is which, as I say, is the 'whaling industry. I being done by the Legislative Council, by do this at the risk of a certain amount of men who see far ahead, and have an eye repetition, for Mr. Miles put the case clearly to the future possibilities of Western Aus- last night. My ouly excuse for referring tralia. If the motion is carried, it will to the matter again is that I happened to -mean that members do see a long, way he the chairman of directors of the original ahead, and if -we send it to another company. In consequence, I am convers- place, we shall find out who are the pessi- ant with the whole of the details concerning mists there, and who are opposed to the it. It may be of interest to members to development of the country by the best hear some of the details. The North-West means at our command, namely the cheap Whaling Company, which is the whaling in- and economical generation of electric cur- dustry intended to he covered by the Bill rent. was formed in Perth entirely by local peo- ple and with local money. The project was On motion by Hon. Sir William Lathlain, so popular that all the shares -were sub- debate adjourned, scribed in two days without a single ad- vertisement appearing in the newspapers. Unfortunately, ziufficient money was not BIIL-RAILWAYS DISCONTINUANCE. asked for at the time. It was one of the Received from the Assembly and read a cases where the management was to a large first time. extent composed of people who knew noth- ing about the business. Consequently this concern met the same fate that others met BILL-WHALING. where those in control were not thor- Second Reading, oughly acquainted withi the matter on Debate resumed from the previous day. hand. The company was carried on with scant success. First of all it had to take HON. SIR EDWARD WITTENOOM up a position at 'Point Cloates, many miles (North) [5.55]: This little Bill looks harm- away beyond Carnarvon, where no means less enough, and appears to he necessary. of communication existed. A whaling centre It has for its object the regulation of th-e was established there. The company also whaling industry, and incidentally the col- had to procure the necessary vessels, and [COUNCIL.]

make all the preliminary arrangements, at that the Bill is unnecessary at present, with a cost of a good deal of money. It was also only one company representing the whaling necessary to gain a good deal of experience industry. The license under which the com- in order that the operations might be car- pany now working operate is of such a ried out successfully. The company didi strong, full and satisfactory nature as to carry on for two years, but because the render an Act unnecessary. I shall read to management was not all that it should have the House some conditions of the license, been, and because of the difficulty of obtain- when hon. members%will recognise that it ing a competent manager and a skilful gun- practically embodies most of the things in ner-in a ease like this it is the whole secret the Bill, and at all events makes it unneces- of success-it encountered difficulties. At sary to hamper the industry with an Act- first the experts wvere not procurable;- con- I may add that'besides the license operated sequently the numbher of whales secured was by the company, three other licenses are in small. existence, and that not one of them has been company Ron. H. A. Steu ben son: I suppose you put in operation. Only the one the business of had no difficulty in getting a gunner. have started out to develop whaling, and therefore any conditions made Hon. Sir ED)WARD WITTENOOM: by the Legislature can apply only to this Yest, we had. There was difficulty in get- company. I have here the license, which ting a gunner to hi! the whales. This side was made between Sir Robert Furse Me- of the business, as well as the manage- Millan, Liieutenant-Governor, and the North- ment, were not satisfactory. In addition West (Australia) Whaling Co., Ltd., on the a severe willy-willy which occurred on 16th August, 1922. It says-- the coats. wrecked one of the vessels. Whereas by the Fisheries Act, 19 05-13, as8 Under these adverse circumstances the com- amended by the Fisheries Act Amendment Act, pany lost £24,000 in two years. The ease 1921, it is provided as follow,%s:-(l) The seemed hopeless at the time, and it was Governor may graunt to any person, on such terms and conditions as to the Governor lucy decided to go into liquidation; but fortu- seem fit, a license to the exclusion of all other nately among the shareholders there were persons to take, collect, and gather Ifor any some progressive and liberal-minded men, term not exceeding 14 years, from any portion who agreed to find sufficient funds for the of the coastal waters of the State and the purpose of sending a representative to foreshor-e or adjacent land above high water Norway to see whether some other arrange- mark, being Crown lands within the mneaning of the Land Act, 1898, any mnarinec animal ment could not be made before the company life or product of the sea not being any of went into liquidation. The result was that the fish mentioned in the Second Schiedule, another small company in Norway, called or any amendumeat thereof. (2) Save as here- the Norwegian Bay Whaling Company, inolter provided, it shall hie unlawful durinig the currency of any license granted under this agreed to work in with this company, agreed section for any pertson, except the licensee, his to take over for a certain time the license servants or agents, or other persons actinlg with this company had obtained. The second his authoricy to take, collect, or gather any company have been doing that with a fair nmarine animal ]ife or product of the sea, for amount of success. At first there were some which such license shall have been granted, within the portion of the coastal waters, fore- difficulties, but latterly the company have Shore, or adjacent laud above high water mark been paying the original company a propor- to which such license extends. Provided, tion of profits that helps to liquidate the nce-etheeSS, that nothin~g herein Shall p~ro- £,24,000 I have referred to. It is hoped that vent any person from taking, eo Ileethig, or by the end of the year the amount may be gathering therein any such noimal life or pro- duct for his pe-sonal uise and consumption entirely paid off, and then the original com- but net for barter or sale. Provided, also, pany will be in a position to work the that no license shall be granted under this business. Up to that time, however, not a section in respect of any length of foreshore single shareholder had received a penny in exceeding 75 miles, until the expiration of 14 dividends. All this money was put in by days after the draft of such license hmas been lai d upon the Table of each House of Partia- people in Perth, and not a penny has been ineat, (3) The Governor may make regula- received back. Now the Government bring tio]]s under and subject to which any license down this drastic BiDl, containing clauses granted under- this sect ion shall be held . . - . which, I believe, the Honorary Minister is And whereas the grantee has applied for a prepared to make a little better, according license in respect of the coastal waters de- scribed in. the schedule hereto and delineated to amendments which he has placed on the on the annexed miap and therein coloured red: Notice Paper. However, my argument is And whereas the length of the coastal waters [26 SEFTnSm, 1928.] 931 of the outlined area coloured red on the anl- lawfully done or suffered since the forfeiture leaxvol apt does not exceed 75 miles. Now as to the grantor may seem fit. tils indenture witnesseth that in considlera- tion of the rent hereinafter reserved and of Thre Government made some further condi- thke covenants by the grantee hereinafter con- tions. On the 17th October, 1924, the talied, the granitor by and with thle advice Colonial Secretary's Office wrote as follows and consent of the Executive Council hcrlity to Mr. Will Davies, on behalf of the North- grants onto the grantee subject to the es- clusion of fill other persons, to fish for and West (Australia) Whaling Company:- take whales4 within the coastal waters described Referring to your interviews of the 6th and in the schedule hereto ... for the term of 16th instant, respectively, wvith thle Hon. the three years tromn and including the first day inister regarding the issue of a whaling of -January, 1922, yielding and paying there- license at tile expiration of the cxisting one for in advance the aimal rent of £50, the in the Dramre of the North-West (Australia) first paynment having become due onl the first Whaling Company (in liquidation), I have to day of January, 1922 . Rdan. the grantee inform you that, alter full consideration, the covenants with the grantor as follows :-(]) Government is prepared to grant such a lienose To pay the same rent at the time and ill for at tern, of five years, provided the follow- nmner aforesaid. (2) To observe and per- ing clauses be inserted in the license as agreed formi all re~guiations l or the protection and upon, viz. :-(a) That no wage less titan the pre~ervation of whales and for any other lpar- minimum wage payable under any arbitration loose mtade hr the (Governor under the powvers court award (Federal or State), or any in- (olnftred 1), the said] Act and in force for tire tine being. (3) Wit!,in six months fronm dustrial award applicable to Government em- the ,-onunnem~ent of this grant to establish ployces in the district within which the upon1 :ii island within tire said] area or on iicense is operative, or the nearest dis- tiw miinw on lad lawfully acquired] by trict thereto within which Government the grantee employees are engaged shall be paid to under the provisoions of thle Land employere employed iii pursuance of the Act, 1S98, or otherwise a factory or works license, within any portion of the area covered for the treatment of wviaies, whale blubber, by the license whicWl is subject to thle and the earenses of whales, and to provide all lawvs of the State of Western Australia. (b) necessary plant and machinery for that pur- That similar conditions shail be observed in pose, the amount lof capital to be expended connection with employees empioyed upon any thereon being net less than £10,000. (4) To vessel used in connection with the business of l)ain fide, and to the satisfaction of the Col- the licensees, and such other conditions stipu- onial Secretary in office for the time being, lated by the said industrial awards, unless commence the industry of whaling as aforesaid otherwise agreed to by the industrial union or within six months frot the commienceent of unions whose members are employed, sihall this grant, and thereafter to the like satisfac- apply. tion m~aintalin and continue such industry as a going concern, and at all times during tho Those two conditions show that the interests said term or any extensions thereof to keep of the workers in each case have been pro- and maintain the factory, works, plant and tected. mtacinery in effective condition. (c) Should there be any dispute as to wages That is a strong condition. Here is another and( conditions of employment, such dispute shall be submitted to the Registrar of the good one- Court of Arbitration, whoso decision shall be (5) To capitalise the industry to a total final and binding on the parties. amount of riot less than. £25,000. (6) To carry out tire treatment of the ,vhalecs and the wvhole I have read out those conditions to show preparation of the products therefrom within how stringent is the license. As there is the said State. (7) That no Asiatic and no only the one company in the business, what aboriginal native of Africn or the Islands of the Pacific shall be employed by the grantee. is the object of passing a Bill? (8) The grantee shall not without the con- Hon. I. Nicholson: You think the license sent in writing of the Colonial Secretary trans- would be quite sufficient without the Bill'? fer, assign or sublet this license or any right Hon. Sir EDWARD conferred on bin, hereby. WITTENOOM: I do. Let me quote Clause 4 of the Bill, There is a condition providing that if the tinder which nobody would attempt to carry rent is not paid, the license will be forfeited. on business- Then there is the following condition- Every application for a license under this Provided tihat the grantor may for any cause Act shall be mnade during the eurrency of the which hie may deem sufficient, luit in his abso- calendar year in which the license is to !.are lute discretion, by any subsequent notice in effect or in thle month of December precedi'tg the "'Government Gazette'' cancel any notice that year, and every such license which shall of forfeiture and reinstate the grantee as of be granted shall have effect for and during his former estate and on any ternms and eon- that year, or the unexpired portion thereof, ditions as regards the grantee or anything .and no longer. [COUNCIL.)

In the name of goodness, who would put in stances. A whaling boat cannot be clean. £40,000 or £50,000 under such conditions? It is like a shearing shed or a slaughter To show how inconsistent that clause is with yard. People who are not used to such the license, it is only necessary to mention places consider that they stink. On the that under the license the Government re- whaling boats specially skilled workers are quire the expenditure of £10,000, and a required, and, as a consequence, while the further £30,000, whilst the period is to be Bill is solicitous for the welfare of our own only one year. countrymen, the boats employ nearly all foreigners, who will have the benefit of The Honorary -Minister: Have you rend the insanitary conditions on them. I hope the amendment which appears on the Notice lbon. members will assist me in getting the Paper? Hill postponed. I intend to vote against Hon. Sir EDWARD WITTENOOM : I the second reading. quite appreciate that the Honorary Minister is trying to meet the case, but the clause On motion by the Honorary Minister, de- and the license could never go together. ]into adjourned. The Honorary Minister: Why criticise the Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m. clause in view of the fact that the amend- ment on the Notice Paper gives you every- thing you want? BILL,-FORESTS ACT AMENDMENT. Hon. Sir EDWARD WITTENOOM4: 1 am trying to criticise it so that I may per- Second Reading.. suade the Honorary 2Minister, with his usual Debate resumed from the previous day. good nature and sympathetic disposition, to withdraw the Bill. If he refuses I shiall ask HON. W. J. MANN (South-West) hon. members to assist nie in postponing the L7.30]: 1 can see no serious objection to measure for a while. Now I1 come to the Bill, although I believe there is very Clause 8- greVat urgce for- reforestation throughout thet State. I uoticc that in the past £5,000 Time earcase of every whale taken or killed in the territorial wa ters of the State, or llu; been allocated for sandalwood refor- brought into such waters after having been ecitalion and has not all been spent. I am taken or killed outside such waters, is hereby no nacare whetter the Government have charged with paymnt to the Crownx of royalty made an effort to spend it all, or whether at the prescribed rate .. .. . the amount that has been sp~ent was suffi- Is not that an export duty? Who ever cient for departmental purposes. The heard of an export duty on a primary pro- Premier in another place mentioned that duct? We shall have an export duty on there wvas an unexpended balance of £7,127. wheat next, and on flour and wool. Even as I amn not clear as to whether it is proposed the business has been carried on, £E1,500 in- to keep that as a balance for futute expen- come tax was paid last year. The royalty diture. The Chief Secretary says it is so will represent at least another £C1,000 per proposed. I am pleased to hear that, be- annum. If the Bill passes, therefore, the cause I believe there is v ery great work in unfortunate shareholders are not likely to reforestation awaiting us. In the South- get a penny. Clause 10 is taken exception West the process of reforestation is going to in respect of paragraphs (e) and (d) of along rather slowly, but at any rate, good Subelause 1, and particularly paragraph work is heing done. I have seen the work (o), which provides for the making of- on the tuart area at Ludlowv, on the areas at Collie, and also on the Dwelliagup area. Such rules its the G"overnor 'nov think neces- sary or proper to bie observed iu and for the I under-tand there are at present about conduct arid control of whaling and whluing 750,000 acres embraced in the working business in all respects, or for keeping any plans of the Forests Department. That vessels, boats, or premnises used in connection area represents bet a small proportion of with whaling or whaling business in a sanitary the country that will hare to he taken in and cleanly condition. hand sooner or later. I hope the Govern- Anybody who knows anything whatever ruent "will extend the wvork as far as pos- about whaling will know that any inspector ;iible. I regret that the forestry college at who goes uip there, arid whose nose is not Ludlow has been closed, if not officially at an insentient exreseenee, will not consider a all events against students. I understand whaling boat a clean boat in any circtlm- there is a reply to this, namely, that the [26 SErrnrnnR, 1928.) 933

forestr 'y students ar-c no"w seat to Canberra, on the one area thus planted. There are w'here they can obtain a status not attain- throughout the South-West many similar able iii the school here. It that be so, there areas of sand-plain country that would re- is not very much to be said against it, but spolld to pinus pinaster, country that needs 1 hope the fact that those students are being no clearing and has only to he turned up in sent out of tile State to be educated in for- order that the seed may be planted. estry wrill not disadvantage the State; for Hon. 0. Fraser: W hat about using that I believe that in Western Australia, more £5,000 allocated to the Forests Depart- than in any other State of the Conimon- ment? wealth, there is work for trained foresters. Hot). W. J. MANN: You need not worry For that reason T urge the Government to about that. The Government have made a extend their reforestation wyork as far as fine profit out of the royalty. possible. There is a wider scope for re- Hon. E. H. Harris: Yes, £6 per ton. forestation hiere than in any other State. We have the tuart areas I have mentioned. Hon. W. J. MANN: There are, in the They are very valuable areas, although very South-West, hewers paying as much as 40s. smnall, comprising only 6,000 acres. Tuart royalty per load, whereas a few years ago is a very valuable timber, and in the past the Government were glad to get two shil- it has not been conserved as it should have lings. Also there has been quite a decent been. In conseqluence there is a shortage revenue derived from royalty on timber cut of that timber, and I understand the de- onl the group settlement areas. I believe partmeiit have had to reserve areas of white most of that money has gone into Consoli- gumn somewhere in the Bolgart district in dated Revenue. Tn my view, rather than an attempt to meet the demand for tuart, put such money into Consolidated Revenue, white gumn being next in value. I can speak it would be a wise policy to utilise it for with some knowvledge a! the success that reforestation. I will support the Bill. has attended the Forest Department's efforts in that area. Years ago it was con- HON. J1. R. BROWN (North-East) [7.40]: 1 will oppose the Bill, for tended that it was practically impossible to I think the £5,000 should bring about artificial reforestation. But be kept in the forest fund. It may not be wanted to-day, hut on the tlet department, bY scientific means, has other hand it may be solved the problemn, and I believe they are wanted to-morrow. The sandalwood industry has been a great now getting practically 100 per cent, of boon to prospectors. The prospector of to- germination, and that the growth is little day, when his money is exhausted, has to shlort of remarkable. That is a feature plunge into thalt industry. Sometimes the with which we may well be gratified, be- regulations imposed make it hard for him cau~e tile natural reforestation in that coun- to get his quota. try is periodical and occurs only after big Oires, when the seed germinates in the ash- Hon. F. H. Hani-is: It is very hard for beds. I am pleased the Government are some of them to get an order at all. extending their wyork of experimenting- with Hon. J. R. BROWN: Yes. Many of pines. In the early days a very grave mis- them do not succeed in getting orders. Just take was made, again at Ludlow, in plant- the sme, strings are pulled and people who ing pinus insignRis on coastal country with- have never been in the sandalwood industry out having previously attempted to prove manage to get orders. whether the country was suitable. The re- Hon. E. H. Harris: Those strings were suit was that after a niumber of years the pulled before the last general election. whole of that pine had to be cut. It is now being utilised for fruit eases, but the yield Hon. J. II. BROWN: Never mind the is very small. Had this question been last general election. Mr. Nicholson, last tackled scienitifically and in the light of the nighbt, read a long report on sandalwood. experiencee of other countries before the That report was not true when it spoke of experiment was madie, the State would have there being two classes of sandalwood. been saved a great deal of money. How- There is only one class of sandalwood. ever, that coulatry' has been replanted with When grown down south, it becomes coarse pinus pinaster, and from the growth made and runs into big timber, but the oil is not I feel that this variety has solved the ques- in it. The best sandalwood grows on the tion. I hope the Government will not rest goldfields. 934 (COUNCIIL]

Hon, J. Cornell: Where the best men this is all industry that stood to the pros- come from. peetor all through the piece, and if hie is Hon. E. H. Harris: Is not the best qual- now deprived of a certain revenue it wvill ity found in the North-West? go hard against him. At one time it was Hon. J. R. BROWN: Mr. Seddon said possible to pull the wvood and bring it in that in different districts sandalwood takes without fee or license, merely the payment of 5s. a ton. Mr Mann was longer or shorter peroids for its growth. of a royalty off the track and did not know what he was He said that in some places it required 20 to the years, while on the goldfields the period re- talking about when he referred £7,500 as having been reserved for the re- quired was 100 years. Some 20 years ago fore~tation of sandalwood. It was not so I myself was ou t after sandalwood. I had reserved. That is all I have to say and I to call bush that had been culled half a dozen shall support the second times. Even so, I could make wages out. reading. of it, although I was; getting only £4 10s. a HON. G. W. MILES (North) [7.49]: 1 ton for the wood, and had to pay £1 per intend to oppose the Bill. It has been in- ton for the hire of a horse, and cart. While troduced each year for a period of 12 engaged in the industry I learned that san- months onily amid, so far as I can remnemb~er, dalwvood varies in its growth. I have conic wvhen the forests Act was passed in 1918 across sandalwood 7£ t high, although it was it was understood that the money derived only a sapling. It had not taken more than by way of royalty, or at least three-fifths eight years to grow. I knew that beca use of it would go into a trust fund. In 1923 it was growing in a costeen about 18 inches the revenue received from royalty on sandal- deep, and I knew from the history of the wood was £16,500; in 1924 it was £44,271., place that it could not have more than eight in 1925 it was £E52,511, in 1026 it was years since that costeen wvas dug. Air. Sed- £52,018, in 1927 it was £46,074, and in 1928 don also said that sandalwood was a para- it was £53,488. The total received was site. It is nothing of the sort, and whoever £204,080, three-fifths of which amount say., so does not know anything about it. should have found its way into the general The best sandalwood to be obtained is got reforestation fund. The amounts paid into on rocky ridges where there is nothing else the sandalwood trust fund in those years growing. When the Bill was intro- were :-1025, £C5,009; 1.926. £53,100; 1927, duced wea heard that the Government had £C4,900; and in 1928, £5,009l, making a total spent so much nioney-they could not have of over £C20,000. Of that sium the Govern- spent much because it is not long since the ment have in hand £7,000. Here we have £5,000 was allocated to the Forests Depart- another instance of legislating for one end ment. We may, however, want the £5,000 of the State only. Sandalwood grows in in the near future. If some of that money other parts of the State and there has been were spent scientifically, we mig-ht discover no reforestation in the northern areas. some way of forcing the growth af sandal- From Gascoyne and around Shark Bay wood, because we find stieks which, because many years ago big consignments of sandal- of their girth were overlooked by cutters, wood were exported, and further north as bad grown before the return of those cut- wvell, even as far as Kimberley, hut no at- ters, a, period that might not he considered tempt has ever been made to carry on me- to hove been very long. What causes the forestation there. This work should be con- development of some of the trees at a ducted all over the State where sandalwood greater rate than others I am not prepared will grow, but apart from that, if the three- to say. There may, however, bie some fifths is not required for reforestation oif method of fertilising those trees to promote sandalwood, it will eventually be required rapid growth. T know an unlawful way for the reforestation of jarrah. kerni andl which might not meet with general al)- other timbers in the southern parts of the proval, and that would be to kill about State. That was the intention of Parlia- 1,000 Chionen and bury them in the sail- nment when the Act was passed, amid SO far dalwood country. I feel certain that tin, as I canl rmember-, when the sa ndalwood sandalwood trees then would grow as rp regulations were brought in, the then 01p- idly as mushroonms. Anyhow, I consider position opposed them tooth and ail. Now that the money should be retained because that that Opposition are in power, they are [263 SEPTEMBER, 1928.]1i 915 taking this momsy into revenue to swell eration of sandalwood have been proved, their annual receipts, instead of using it he does not think it necessary or advisable legitimately. The Minister may say in re- to spend any more money in that direction. ply that the Government have already in I take it that those experiments should be their fund £,115,000. They may have that carried out all over the State at the one now, but the money will be required if the time, bat the Conservator is the best judge work is to be carried out as it should be of that kind of! thing. He is recognised done. Had the original intention of I'urlia- throughout the world as being r-mnlt juwnt been followed, there would have beenl in his poesn, althoughi a very young another £102,482 in that fund. I intend to mnart. Fromn Press reports I have read, die oppose the Bill and I. hope the Hfouse will delegates to tlhe Empire Forestry Confer- reject it. ence, which is sitting in different parts of the Commonwealth1 at the present time, THE HONORARY MINISTER (Hon. luave a very' high opinion of this ottleer, and W. Hi. Kitson-Wst) [7.53] : 1 intend to in view of that fact I do not see any reason support the Bill. It is a. fact that something why we should not be prepared to accept over £20,000 from royalties has been paid his advice and allow the Government in into a fund for the regeneration of sandal- utilise thep £5,000 for this year only. wood, and it is also a fact that about On motion by the Chief £12,000) only has been spent in that direr.- Secretary, de- tion, leaving a balance of £7,100 in the bate adjourned. fund. It is admitted that the regeneration of sandalwood is purely an experiment, and BILL-ELECTORAL ACT AMENDMENT. the Conservator of Forests in his report has explained the position very fully. Hoe Second R~eadingl. has pointed out that the experiments car- Debate resuimed from the previous day. ried out so far have reached the stage where it is advisable that no more money HON. 3. CORNELL (South) [7.57]: The should be spent until such time as the re- object sought by the Bill will not prove to sults of those experiments are known. The be as simple in practice as it looks on position is that we have at the present p)aper. It is immaterial to me, and 1 sup- time an accumulated balance of over pose immaterial to any member of this £7,000, which is equivalent to the average Rouse, whether or not the Bill becomeu expenditure for two years, and if the Bill Jaw, in that it will not affect this Housa is not passed, it wvill mean that that balance at all. will increase; in other words, the £5,000 Hon. E. H. Gray: It will be better for will he lying idle instead of being used in the pu'blic and the electorates some other direction. The Bill does not Hon. J. CORNELL: I1 do not think the say that the experiments in connection hon. member has read the Bill. or he wouldl with the regeneration of sandalwood are not have made. that remark. The Bill is going to cease; it sitmply says that for one -in attempt to make enrolment easier airc? year the sum of £5,000, which would or- voting easier. Digressing for a moment, dinarily cvi into the fund, shall be paid into lerulit me., to say that I have always op- Con-olidated Revenue, posed compulsory enrolment, and I shall Ron. 0. W. Miles: What about the other always oppose compuilsory voting-, because three-fifttH of the other total? we have arrived at a stage in our political The HONORARY MINISTER: That history when enrolment is quite easy and does nt affect the position in the slightest. voting is also easy, so easy, in fact, that Hon. G. W. Miles:- Of course it does the people do not take the interest to-day The HONORARY 'MTIISTER: If the in politics that our forbears did. It i. Bill is not passed, it will simply mean that necessary in a sense to be probably a the £-5.000 will be paid into the fund for little tedous in endeavoniring to give my the rewereration of sandalwood and will re- viewpoint, and I hope in doing so that I main there u'i'sed. I am aetine simply on shall not be transaressing the Standing the rport of the Conservator of Forests Orders if I say that hon. members of an- who says in effect that until such time ats other place did not give the Bill the con- the evoeriments with regard to the regen. sideration it deserved while others did not lI341 [COUNCIL]

realise the exact manner in which it would cause Victoria and. South Australia ha-vi affect them. The Bill proposes that there adopted this scheme, it should be a go&c shall be one Federal and State enrolment thing for Western Australia too. Without card, and that there shall be a joint roll desiring to reflect upon those who are ol used in both Federal and State elections. that opinion, I think those who give ex- The objection to-day is that the elector has pression to such a view have not reall3 to fill in three cluin, cards-Federal, Assem- considered the position or else, to use a bly and Council. It is certain that if the, vulgarism, they are merely repeating a par- joint roll proposition becomes law, 80,000 rot-cry. I think I s3hall he able to convince, people in Western Australia will still be hon. members as to the real situation be- liable to fll in two claim cards-Council fore I have concluded. my remuarks. Let us and Assembly-Federal combined, It is said consider the poition of Victoria first, It that from the joint claim cards, thc joint has merely at fraction of the urea of West- rolls will be compiled. It is also asserted that ern Australia. There are 20 Federal eec- the joint rolls will be so marked as to indi- tornl divisions in Victoria, whereas 'West- cate the people qualified to vote for State ern Australia has, only five Federal divi- and Fcderal elections, for the Edommon- sions. Despite that, Western Australia has wealth elections only, or for the Assembly about 20 times the area of Victoria. Less elections only. To my way of thinking, that than two years ago, Victoria had a proper arrangement will jead to complications that redistribution of s-eats effected on a popu- will in all probability be found not easy of lation basis. Western Australia has niot solution. It is said that this can happen, had a redistribution of seats for 17 years. and it has not been contradicted: A per- Hon. Sir William Lathlain: We are given son enrolled on th'e joint roll as an elector to understand that we will have one this, for the Commonwealth will, in some in- session. stances, not be able to vote at an Assembly Hon. WV.J1. Mann: Perhaps! election in connection with which that roll Hon. J. CORNELL: In Victoria, the is used, or '-ice versa, and he ill have to Legislative Assembly is comprised of 65 fill in another claim card. members. There are 20 Federal divisions Hon. 0. Fraser: That does not repre- iii that small State, and on a rough-and- sent an alteration on present conditions. ready basis, it will be found that if we cut Ron J. CQRNELL:L But is it an iml1)rove- up 65 seats amniigst the 20 Federal elec- ment? In my opinion, it will lead to con- toral divisions, it will work out at a little fusion. To-day an elector if eligible for more than three Assembly seats per Federal the Legislative Council enroluetit knows division. In, Western Australia we can take- that he has to fill in three claim cards, and the extremes in inicate the disparity of the when he is not so eligible, that he has to existing population basis. Menzies has 280 fill in two claim cards. electors, And Canning over 18,000 electors. Hon. 0. Fraser. But do they know We can apply that position generally to elec- that! torates throug-hout the State when we make Ron J. CORNELL: My electors know a comparison on the population basis. On it; the hon. member's electors may not h' the other hand, that cannot apply to the so advanced! Two of the claim cards must position in Victoria, where the redistribu- be filled in compulsorily, whilst the other tion of seats was effected quite recently. I is not compulsory, If we pass the Bill-i have idready mentioned that in Victoria 65 do not care whethe-r it is passed or rejected seats had to be cut up amongst 20 Federal -1 believe it will create confusion in the divisions. -In Wcstern Australia we have minds of the electors, who will think that .50 seats in the Legislative Assembly to be by filling in one claim card they -will be en- divided amongst five Federal electoral di- rolled on both -rolls, whereas, in tact, they visions. The KalIgoorlie division is the may be enrolled on one roll only. From that largest electorate in the world, andl it con- standpoint alone there will be a duplica- tomns 21 Assembly electorates and 24 Fed- tion of claim cards, just as is neceRMaY eral subdivisions. In those Federal subdi- to-day with the Federal And Slate rolDs vision-, there are five for which rolls will be compiled1 separately. I do not think that is issued hut f or wbich there are no cor- a commendable feature in connection with responding Legislative Assembly seats. this arrangemient. It has been urged that be- On the other side of the picture, we [26 SnETEUtana, 1928.] tiMgat find that in the St1ate electorates there are stances, hon. mnembers. will realise at once two in respect of where there are no cor- that it would he easier to adopt the pro- responding Federal subdivisions. Hon. posal where an electorate is run on that members will find that wp have in this batiis, than if the divi-;on had to be made State, on the present population basis, 21 where four single electorates were affected. Assembly seats included in one Federal Let us turn to the State that has had the electoral division. Later on I will show latest redistribution of seats, and where we how they overlap, and where additional could reasonably and logically assume that confusion is almost bound to arise. In this the proportion of electors in the various State we have, apart from the Kalgoorlie electorates hias been brought somewhat division, four other Federal electoral divi- nearer the mark on a population basis. sions. If we take the rest of the State, in- New South Wales has not adopted the joint cluding the congested areas, of Perth and rolls proposal, although it might he more Fremantle, we find we have 29 Assembly fittingly adopted there titan in this State. electorates that have to be divided amongst New 'South Wales is not one-quarter the the four remaining Federal electoral divi- area of this State. There are 90 seats in the Legblative Assembly of New South sions, or more than seven State electorates Wales, and there arc 28 Federal electoral to each Federal division. That represents divisions. That gives, just aLfraction over twice as many State electorates to be three State electorates to each Federal divi- crammed into each Federal division here as Sian, practically the same as the proportion was necessary in Victoria. That means to in Victoria. We do not find New South say that whereas three seats had to go to Wales rushing into this scheme, although each Federal division in Victoria, here, they have turned from proportional voting apart from the Kalgoorlie division, seven to single electorates wvithin the last two seats have to go to each Federal division. years. Why has not New South Wales Hon. members will recognise from this com- adopted this scheme, if it is such an excel- parison, the difficulty that will confront lent proposition, as some people would have Western Australia if we adopt the argu- us believe? I will venture to assert that mient that because Victoria has adopted this New South Wales has probably given the scheme, it must be a good thing for West- project more reasonable eon sideration than era Australia, and must work quite as easily it has received in this State, and New South here. I have no hesitation in saying that Wales has not seen fit to adopt it. I sug- that assumption is based on totally wrong gest that has not been done, because this premises. Then again it has been urged prop o3itiOn will not work out as easily as that because South Australia has adopted some people consider. We are told that if these proposals, Western Australia will find this arrangement becomes law, Federal rolls it advantageous too. We~tern Australia has will be issued as heretofore. That is to say, three times the area of South Australia. In 50 subdivisional rolls will be issued by the the latter State, the House of Assembly Federal Electoral Department and they will comprises 40 members and there are seven be combined into divisional volumes. The Federal electoral divisions in the State. subdivhions of each division will be con- Dividing their 40 Assembly seats among- the tained in The One volume. That will be the Federal divisions there, we find that in Federal roll. We are told that roll is to bku South Australia nearly six State seats, will marked to indicate Federal electors quali- have to go to each Federal division, as fied to vote at State elections. It would against seven Assembly seats in Western not be too bad if we were given a Australia to each of four Federal divisions, definite assurance that we would not have and 21 Assembly seats to the Kabroorlie more rolls than we have State electorates. Federal division. There is this to lie said That is to say, the 50 subdivisional rolls regarding south Australia's acceptance of would be the only ones issued, there would the proposal that that State has no single he no further State rolls, and the subdivi- electorates. The South Australian elec- sinn rolls would correspond with the State torates are run on the basis of four, three rolls. But we arc told on the authority of and two representatives. If hon. members the Chief Electoral Officer, whom I con- take the Federal division of Adelaide, they sider to he one of our best public servants, will find that it practically covers the boun- that in order to make the proposal work- daries of the State electoral district which able, it would be necessary to have 65 State returns four members. In those eircum- 11-0ls. [COUNCIL]

Uon. E. H. Harris: The M1inister ad- do not exist to-flay as State electorates. wuitted that last session. On the other hand, there are the State elec- Hon. J. CORNELL: I am pleasea that torates of 'Moore and Coolgardic that dio not this arrangement will not apply to the exist as Federal subdivisions, The Vilgaru South Province. One roll is enough electorate1 which is one of the electorates for you, M1r. President, and for me in the South Province, extends to I(urra- to look after without boring another one or wang. It embraces, practically the whole of two rolls folded onl us. I amn not arguing Coolgardie, together with some of ilundas merely from the aspect of Council memn- and,'sonic of Kano woo. At the southern hers; I am trying to point out the con- end the division of Forrest goes into Yil- f usion that is likely to arise in tie Assemably g'a) while Ilavcusthorpe is included in the electorates. I question -whether there is one Natanning subldivision, and( Newdegate is of the Federal subdivi~ions; that corresponds included in the Williams subdivision. Yil- with a State electorate either geographic- go ii, f or Federal put poes, em braces ally, numerically, or in name. part of Avon and does not come into Hon, G, Friser: Does not Norilh-East the Vilgarn State electorate. The Min- Fremantle") ister knows there is no Suich electorate as Hon. .3. CORN"E[JL: The lion. member Moore for Federal purposes, but there is a canl speak for that-. I do not intend to roam State electorate of M3oore as -well as State all over the State. I ant endeavouring to electorates of Irwin and Greenough. Thle point out how the proposal is likely to affect lig-ates; for Grcenough will convince the Alin- Kalgoorlie and the South Province. ister that that district must comprise a big Hon. (G. Picer: You said you did not portion of Moore. On the Federal roll for know of one, and I told you of one. Greenough there are 2,850 electors and there Holl. J. CORNELL: Does North-East ore not nearly so many in. the State elec- Frenmantie as a whole square with the Fe4- torate. For Irwin there are 4,800 on thie eral district? Federal roll, which accounts also for Moore, Hon. G. Fraser: Thle Iboundarics, arc the When we follow fthe district of 'Moore south, same for Northi-East Freniantle, State and] we find it comes; out near Wanneroo, and it Federal. is questionable -whether the Federal sub- H-on. 3. CORNELL: Amiong the State division of Moore will not merge into Fre- districts there is Brown Hill-Ivanhone, but mantle. In order to mnake this proposal in the Fede-al subdivisions there are Brown operative, I venture to say that in the Yil- Hill and Ivanhoe. Though they join, the gain State electorate it will be neeesai-v State boundaries of the merged districts are to haIve four1 Tolls, the main Yilgarn roil not co-tenninous with those of the two Fed- and three subdivisional rolls in order that eral subdivisions. the electorates,- in the Ratanning- subdivision lion. G. Fraser: They are in NYorthi-East shall be severally siet out as being in thle Frenmantle. Vlgarn subdivision. Others in the Wil- Hon. J. COR'NELL: I. ami pleased ianis subdivision in Newdegate and Avou to hear there is one. There are sub- wvill have to hanve rolls. I hauve not gone divisions that do not even square in into the qluestion to ascertain whether York namie with thp State elcoae. if does not conic into the Yilgarn electorate. members cast their minds back they will So in an electorate like Yilgarii we shdl recollect that time Federal subdivisions take require fouir rolls; for an election. whereas their names from the State electorates, that only one is reqtiired to-day. I shall nor were recognised prior to the passing of the weary the House bjy mentioning the district State redistribution Act 17 years ago. That in which I reside-West Suliiaeo-whicl, is wvhere tile difference in Rnmes occurs. It is in 'Fremantle and( joins, Perth, or is admitted that in p rder to give tangilo Ba'katta where greater complications will effect to this proposal0, 65 rolls will be re- arise. Here is; another anomnaly: Men- quired for thme State electorates. I have 7ire; is a smnall State electorate hav- before me the whole of the subdivisions of ing on thie roll only 287 electors, whereas Kalgoorlie and the total enrolnients on thne on the Federal roll for Me'nzies there are Federal roll for each subdivision. I finji 357 electors. 'We canl assume that there among the Federal subdivisions Broome, will he more names on the Federal sub- Derby, Ivanhoe, Onslow aind Thmndas that division than onl the 1Afenzics State roll [26 SEPTEMBER, 1928.]I and consequently there will bare to be a tralia by asking the State Electoral De- corresponding roll for ILeonora or Mount partment to give up its enrolling facilities, Margaret in order 'that electors may know so far as the Legislative Assembly is con- where they are entitled to vote. It is said cerned, to the Federal instrument. It will that under this progosal the State electoral mean that probably a less~er staff will be officer will have nothing to do with the As- required by the Chief Electoral Officer, but sembly enrolment;, which will be carried it is certain that a greater staff will be out by the Federal department. The State required by the *?omuwawealth enrolling eetoral offleer, however, will remain and instrulment, Are the Commonwealth will bare to function as heretofore for the auithorities going to do this extra work for Council rolls. He will still require his sa~t nothing, or is the State expected to pay for and his electoral agents, and will do the the extra work? I ven ture to say th e Com- work as it has been done in the past. That mnonwealth 'are not prepared to do it. mueans we shall be taking away U0 per cent. Hon. E. H. Harris: They hare indicated of his work and handing it to another insti- it. tution, The State officer will have nothing- Hon. J. CORNELL: If they do the work come into to do with the enrolnments but will for nothing, they either have not enough the picture only when there is a State elee- work for the men they now have, or they tion. There cannot be two bosses, and so are greater philanthropists than I thought rolls that lie will have to take the Assembly they were. We have to put the monetary of the Commonwealth elec,- in the opinion gain against the likely loss of efficiency. toral officer arc correct. 1 think I hare shown we are likely to lose Hon. E, H. Harris: Provision is made for efficiency by the change. I am not going to two. argue in favour of the mionetary gain if by Hon. J. CORINELL: WVe cannot have the the change efficiency is lost. What actual miajor contradicting the colonel. There can benefit would be derived from this arrange- be only one colonel and that will be the mneat? It is saidi the first person to benefit by Commonwealth oitecr, who will say that the it will he the elector, in that he will have rolls are right ant i ust be accepted. There to put in only one card instead of two. must be one subordinate and lie will be the To-day he is compelled hxy law to put in aL State electoral officer. The State officer card both for the State and Conmnonwealth. will have to maintain his staff and will "We know how our forbears had to work to still reqire his oIiiCC in order that the Le-- get their votes. NYow we are going to relieve islative Council roll may be kept up to date. the alleged over-worked elector from the ob- The recent allotment of the 400 blocks of ligation of filling in more than one land makes each holder eligible for enrol- card. If hie is not prepared to fill in the mnent for the Legislative Council,' so there two cards as before, he ought to be dis- is another field of enrolmient for the State. qualified for life as an electoral offier to cover. As the settlers elector. If he has not become established, townships will spring the enertry to fill in a card for both uip and businesses wvill grow, and so the rolls, he probably has not sufficient intelli- work of the Chief Electoral officer and the gence to exercise a vote. Many people. roll of the Legislative Council will grow. would not vote if they were not forced The State department has been criticised by the Commnonwealth to go to the for the condition of the Legislative Council 1)011. Will the arrangemenit make for greater -roll. I have had a good deal to do with the expedition on poling day, when we con- roll and T say 'ye have to ha thankful for test a State cleetion? We have it on the what the State department has done with word of the Chief Electoral Officer that 65 thie limited amount of money at its dis- State rolls will be required, in place of 50 posal. If there are thousands of pee- no'w. I fail to see that we shall secure any pie off the Legislative Council rolls,, it is greater efficiencey or greater expedition in their fault, and not that of the Chief Elec- manipulating 65 rolls, with four or fire in toral Offioer or his staff. He ha% an efficient some electorates, where we had only to man- and reliable staff. just as the Common- ipulate 50 before. There are also many wealth Electoral Offie has. What I want anomalies. A,, the law stands, no person to know fr-on the Minister is what is going can become enirolled, for either the Legisla- to be the monetary zTam to Western Anus- tive Council or the Leriqlative Assembly un- 940 940[COUNCIL]

less he claims 14 days prior to the issue of Hon. J. CORNEFLL: I wish I could a the writ. The arrangement provides, to con- that for the South Province. When I we form with the 1Federal law, that he can up for election in 1924, 600 cards were p become enrolled uip to 6 p.m. on the day in an hour before the time allowed. Wb, of the issue of the writ. The same law will you, Mr. Presideint, went up for electic prevail for the Legislative Council elector 500 claimt cards vere put in an hour befo as prevailed before. He will have to lodge the time. his claim 14 days prior to the issue of the Hon. E. H. Gray: That does not happ, writ, but the Assembly elector may claim up iii our Province. to 6 o'clock on the day of the issue of the Hon. J. CORNELL: It happened writ. That was aq the Bill was originally uine. There was an object in this. TI -drafted. I resent the imposition upon the law provided for 14 days in which to obje Legislative Couneil elector as against the to the names, but in this ease the cards we clemency extended to the Legislative Assem- not put in piecemneal, and we could n bly elector. As an afterthought, another pernse the roll day by day and thus mal place inserted Cla'ise 22a. The Bill says objections. The cards were all put in that the electoral instrument is forced to once. put every person's name on the roll for The Honorary Minister: Who was z Legislative Assemtlply electorates, on lodg- sponsib Ic? ing a claim card up to 6 p.m. en the day of Hion. J. CORNii'LL: The other side the issue of the writ. Clause 22a says that always responsible. All is fair in love ai when they are on the roll the Chief Elec- wvar. Our side did not try to get in an toral Officer, or the Divisional Returning thing "crook." We had due eonsideratib ,Officer in the case of the Commonwealth, for the people compiling the roll. I am n shall then take aill the rolls and all the attacking the other side. It was all in, az cards, and compare them, and 'every they kept 'within the law. man who has lodged a claim 14 days Hon. E. H. Harris: They complied wi prior to the issue of the writ, or up to 6 the Act. o'clock on the day of the ilsue of the writ, The Honorary M3inister: Do you remex will be marked off on the Legislative As- her the Central Province incident? sembly roll, that is, the joint roll, as a per- Hon. 3. CORNEL~L: I was more co son who is not qualified to vote. What could cerned about my own province, but T be more ridiculous? What complications remember the Yilgarn incident ait the la will arise? Assume that all this parapher- election. Seventeen men went to the eou nalia and mnachinerTy be carried out. We and the man who witnessed their elsi may have a supleinentary roll in which cards also, admitted that they had claimi 400 claim cards arc concerned. That is enrolment in error, and were not entit4 possible in any metropolitan centre.. These to go on the roll. The warden ruled th may be lodged 13 clear days prior to the the registrar, having placed them on Ul issue of the writ. All those namnes have to roll, must star them. He did not strike the be starred. None of thoe people can vote. off the roll. That will not give expedition at the poils. Hon. E. If. Harris: Hle sidestepped tl A man may be told he is on the roll, but position. that the authorities have put a sita~r op- H~on. J1. CORNELL: He kept within tl posite his name, and that he cannot vote. law. The starring of those names maew A man may be starred to-day under the that none could vote at any polling boo] objection provision, hut can -vote on makina within Yilgarn unless a declaration wi a declaration that he is entitled to do so. made that a person was entitled to be on t Hon. H1. Seddon: There will be a lot of roll, and to vote. fun at the polling booth. Hon. E. H. Harris: Aiid they wisely r framned from doing so. Hon. J. CORNELL: We will assuine Hion. J. CORNELL: Nine of them mac days prior to the issue of the writ that 13 the declaration, but theyv have not yet be( 400 claim cards are lodged. prosecuted. I took an interest in that ele Hon. E, H. Gray: That is not likely. hion. I know that some of those men votA Hon. 0. W. "Miles: They may start a at the ;Sonthbern Cross poll. Probably hi new road in the district. I been in their place I would have done ti [26 SEFTmBK, 1928,],94 mi

same and taken the risk. I would have redistribution, however, for the election looked around to see whether any one was thereafter, and a Commonwealth census is likely to take action, and, if I thought the due in 1931. When the Commonwealth Ivay was clear, I would have taken a chance. census is completed and the Federal Parlia- Hon. G-. Fraser; You would not be setting ment mak-es its redis~tribution, if inj the the electors a good example if you did. meantime -we have a redistribution it will Hon. J. CORNELL: These men did not be found that the Commonwealth basis of require to be set such an example. Let us fixing divisional figures, so many up and assume that 500 cards were put in a day so many down, will Dot sq are with the after the expiry of the 14 days prior to the basis of fixing the quota so far as the State issue of the writ, All these names would is concerned. Thus we shall have all the Ahd be starred. One month after the declaration anomalies, perhaps a little more intensi- of the poll1, the elected candidate may die. fied, and less elastic, than to-daty. A by-election will then have to be held. The WbaC-necessity is there for passing law provides that anyone else applying the Bill if it is not to operate till 1932? within that 14 days cannot go on the roll. It has been said that Commonwealth elee- What mark will be put against the 400 per- dions will take place this year and a Comn- sons who were starred at the previous elec- monkwealth census in 1931, and that the Bill tion to indicate that 'they could vote at by- is not to operate until 1932, hut it has not elections? Is it intended to get out a new been said that we shall have an election of -roll9 our Legislative Assembly in 1930. Whether Hon. Sir William Lathlain: Let them do we like it or not, there also will be a Legis- what is done with brandy-put three stars lative Council election in 1930. 1 do not like against their names. it, becuse I may have to go out, It was Ron. 3. CORNELL: I have had a lot thought once before that I was gone for good, of experience in this matter, and I know but like all nuisances I cropped up again. what can happen. As a parrot-cry or a Last -year's Bill was given mature considera- phrase, the joint rolls may appear an excel- tion on second reading, and a good scarifying lent thing, but the arrangements 'will not in Committee; and I think the consensus work out in practice owing to the many de- of opinion in the House, even including the fects of the scheme. Now as to powers of KIinister to a slight extent, was that the objection. There is one way of objecting Bill, although it looked well on paper. in the case of the Assembly, and another represented a machine that would not work way of objecting in the case of the Council. well in practice. There again is an invidious distinction. Ron. A. Lovekin: It is premature. However, I shall dismiss that by saying that Hon. J. CORNELL: I hope I am not a bigger price is put on objecting to a Leg- asking too much of the Minister when I islative Assembly elector than on object- invite him to endeavour to clear up some of ing to a Legislative Council eector-5s. the aspects to which attention has been in the first ease and 2s. 6d. in the second. drawn by Mr. Harris and myself. I assure In that respect 'ye are more liberal than the Minister that 1 am not opposed to joint the Assembly. rolls. I would be strongly in favour of Hon. A. Lovekin: It puts us at a big dis- them if Western Australia could have, as count, 50 per cent. Tasmania has, group electorates. In Tas- mania five State electorates are grouped and Hon. J. CORNELL: It is claimned that coincide with the Federal divisions. Tas- iffte arranglement is Mgneed to, the Bill will mania elects an Assembly of 30 members not become operative until after 1932. from five electorates, each returning six Then why the hurryl If the Federal Gov- members. Now I am about to put forward ernment had decided to bring down a Re a simple expedient, and I am convinced distribution of Seats Bill, as they could do that that simple expedient has more to com- under the Constitution, I am afraid it would mend it and less to disqualify it than any be goodbye to my old friend Texas Green. part of the Bill. The simple expedient is However, it is an ill wind that blows no- this: Let us accept, as we ought to accept, body good. The Federal Parliament has the Commonwealth claim card as prima decided not to make a redistribution for the facie evidence of the right to he enrolled coming election. There is bound to be a for the Legislative Assembly. 942 942[COUNCIL.]

Hon. J. Nicholson: So long as he shows bring home to its supporters; the oon victia that he has been resident here for the neces- that they are liable to find themselves hot: sary time. with their own petard, simply for wantc Hon. J. CORNELL: If a person has re- foredboughlt. I support the 3eeond reading sided long enough in the Commonwealth to On motion by the Chief Secretary, dehal become qualified as a Commonwealth elec- adjourned. tor, it is an insult to our intehigeace to suggest that he should jive longer in a State in order to he qualified there. The Coin- BILL-INDUSTRIES ASSISTANCE AC' monwenith law says that trade, comimerce CONTINUANCE. .and intercourse shall be free amongst the States. Western Australia could have the Second Reading. same6 residential qualification as the Com- THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Hen. J. IV monwealth. Let us make the qualifications Drew-Central) [8.57] in moving the sec uniform and declare that a man entitled to Commonwealth enrolment is prima facie ond reading said: This is a measure to prc also entitled to State enrolment. Then let vide for the continuance of the Industrie us enter into an arrangement with the Comn- Assistance Act for a further period of on inonwealth Electoral Department to suplply year. A similar Bill has been before th the State Electoral Department with dui- House on so many occasions that hion. mew cates of all claim cards. The machinery bars will he familiar with the -reasons whic could remain the same. That is a simple bave made necessary the continuance, frOE expedient much easier of consummation year to year, of the board's activities. Th than the Bill, and with much more to com- desirability of closing down the board's op mnend it than the cumbersome machinery erations, however, has not been lost sigh which the measure proposes. A duplicate of by the Government. No new accounts of the Commonwealth claim card would be except wvith discharged soldier settlers, a~r furnished to the State Electoral Officer. being- opened; and the board's policy is whose position would bie what it is to-day. He wherever practicable, to put the settler wm would see that the duplicate card conformed his own resources, by placing him undei to our jaw. If it did, the applicant's name the Agricultural Bank, with the object o. would be placed on the State roll: if it did ensuring that he will pay off the amount hi not, the name would not he enrolled. I owes by means of an instalment mortgage have discussed this simple expedient with a As will be seen from the relative number. good few men who have taken risk in elec- of active and of funded accounts, highl) tion matters, and they say the only objec- satisfactory progress has been made in thu5 tion that could be raised to it is the dupli- direction;- but the position has not reaehei eate card made out by the Commonwealth. a stage -when a general policy of discon. But we if are prepared to trust the Com- tinuance of assistance could be put into op. monwealth to compile a joint electoral roll, eration by the present or any other Gov. we ought to he prepared to trust the Coin- erment without serious disorgvanisation ol inonwealth to make a duplicate of every the hoard's finances. In addition, theni claim card lodged. The proposal is not would be considerable hardship imposed oil costly, and I believe it would he infinitely of settlers, whc better for all concerned. I do rnt care a fairly large number would tindr such conditions find it very whether T vote for or against the second.l reading of the Bill. That is how I feel difficult indeed to get credit from outside with regard to it. From my actual experi- institutions. I have here a short statement ence of elections dluring many years, and dealing with the activities of the hoard! not only in this State hut throughout the which should be of interest to mnembers. Commonwealth, I am endeavouring to give The number of fully and partly assisted lion, members -warning of what T consider settlers on the board's books now stands to be the many pitfalki and traps that lie ait 837, of whom .587 are discharged sol- dormant in this piece of legislation. diers. Of the 898 other debtors, vho are not Ron. G. W. Mfiles: From what you say, receiving fuirther assistance, 496 have had you ought to vote airainst the Bill. their debts fixed on instalment mortg~age, Hon. J. CORNELL: I would be inclined the amount of debt thus funded being even to vote for the Bill, to support the £E506,761 15is. l1d. Taking the position as measure ais it stands, if only that would it stood at the close of the board's financial [26 SEPTEMBER, 1928.)I94 943

year ended 31st March, the total amount 'For the ensuing harvest, 14,990 tons of owing by sundry borrowers, £1,666,925 Os. super. have been supplied to crop 405,930 8d. shows a reduction on the previous acres of land, and with the prospects of a year's figures of £213,360 1s. 3d., made up payable harvest, a further improvement, of bad debts written off £64,264 18s. 9d., both from a cash and security value stand- debts cancelled £12,566 1s. 6d. and generni point, in the board's position could be net improvement £136,529 is. 3d. Advances looked for. I mov-- made to borrowers during the financial That the Bill be now read a second time. year totalled £713,197 7s. 3d. The amount received from crops and produtce of the HON. A. LOVEKIN (Metropolitan) 1927-28 season was £706,231 l4s. 8d., but it [9.5) : I spe no reason why tile Bill should is expected to collect a further amount of be opposed. although it comies before us £65,660 Is. 2d. from equities in the wheat us every year. What appeals to me is that pool and other produace, thereby bringing the Government arc winding up the board the total harvest receipts uip to £771,891 gradually, It would be wrong to attemipt to 15s. 10d. The aggregate amount of debt to push matters. So ]ong as the settlers, are be carried forward from 31st March, aftee' being relieved from the board and put into applying, the value of pool equities, etc. other avenues of assistance, and so long, as was estimated? to be £1,405,820 0s. 8d. The thcre is a reduction every year, we should hoard's liabilities to the Generul Loan Fund be satisfied to continue passing the Bill un- stood on M3arch 31st, at £C2,310,898 13s. 4d. til such time as there is a final winding up The loss of capital to the same dlate of the board. I will support the second amounted to £C531,649 6s. 8d., of which reading. £25,244 Gs. 10d. represented loss on pur- chase and sale of commodities in the initial HON. SIR WILLIAM LATELAfI year of the board's eszistenc; £130,333 12s. (Meiopolitan-Suburban) [9.6]; 1 also will .5d. excess costs of administration and in- support the Bill. During a recent visit to terest paid, over earnings: £,344,547 its. 4d. New South Wales I met Sir Robert Gibson, bad debts written off, mid £,51,523 16Os. Id. the chairman of the Cuaunonwealth Bank, debts cancelled. Included in these figures and in a long, discussion regarding the pros- is £37,131 Ss. 6d. losses incurred with sol- pects of Western Australia I endeavoured dier settlers. Although losses have been to induce him to come over here. Even- considerable, they have been offset by tually ho camne over, and was given a great vecry distinct benefts, and on two im- deal of information. I had with me one portant occasions the board has tendered of our yearbooks, and I was conversant invaluable assistance to the State. Fol- with the fact that, under the operations of lowinz the crop failure in 1914, it was the board up lo that time, nearly ten mil- the means of enabling a very large lions of money had been advanced, find number of settlers, faced with complete considerably ovez eight millions had beeni stoppawc of credit, to remain in occupation repaid. When I drew the attention of Sir of their holdings, and again, upon the ter. Robert to this wonderful repayment, he was inination of the wvar, the establishment of astounded. We all realise the splendid upwards; of 1,700 discharged soldiers on work done by the board in 1914, and the wheat farms was made possible with the great assistance it hans been to the settlers board's assistance. -Many of the most in tile 1)051-ivr period. We are all hopeful notable instances of success have been that the tine may sooin arrive 'when pros- achieved by soldier settlers under the clieney perity will attend the efforts of those men, of the board. The total amount advanced and they will get off the board, even if then by the hoard since its inception is comtpelled to -onic under the operations of £12,086,603 12s. Jid., of which £C1,985,789 the Agricultural Bank. Those,- of us who Is. lid, represented paymenits made to other are e-ngaged in business in a large way wilt Government departments. The total re- remember the serious position in 1914 and ceipt from crops during the same period the enormous assistance the operations of was £11,655,344 representing a wheat pro- the board have been to the State. Succes- duction of 48,875,267 hushels. During ie sive Governments are to be congratulated past year 105 settlers have obtainedl their on the splendid results, in the repayment of clearances, making- a total to date of 1,895, so large all amount of money. I only hope [ASSEMBLY.] the same success will continue to attend the QUESTION-PEAK HILL DISTRICT. efforts of the board until eventually it is: Geological Survey. dissolved. Mr. 'MAR SHALL asked the M1inister for Question put and passed. Mines: Can he give the House any infor- Bill read a second time. mation as to when the geological survey of the Peak Hill district, promised to the In Committee, etc. people of Peak Hill some six years ago, will Bill passed through Committee without be commenced? debate, reported without amendment and the The MINISTER FOR MINES replied: report adopted. The geological survey of Peak Hill has been noted for early attention. It is not possible at this juncture to say when it will be corn- BILL-DRIED FRUITS ACT AMEND- mneneed, for the reason that thle Whole of the MENT. field staff, which is a very small one, is at Second Reading. present fully occupied on other important work. The staff consists of two field officers Order of the Day read for the resumption in addition to the Government Geologist. of the debate from the previous day. The latter is at present on his way to Kim- Question put and passed. berley in connection with oil boring and the remaining two are at Kalgoorlie Bill mead a second tine. assisting Dr. Stillwell. The Peak Hill work Will, however, he pnit in hand as soon as possible. In Committee. Ron. J. Cornell in the Chair; the Chief Secretary in charge of the Hill. QUESTION-WATERSIDE WORKERS' Clause 1-agreed to. STRIKE. Clause 2-Amendment of principal Act. Mr. THOMSON asked the Premier: 1, Is Progress reported. he aware that twelve steamers are lying idle anchored outside Fremantle harbour? 2, House adjourned at 9.13 p.m. What steps do the Government propose to take to enable those steamers to discharge their cargo? 3, Is he aware, according to Press reports, that a band of men whbo re- fuse to abide by the industrial laws of Aus- tralia (in other words "pickets") are parad- ing the Fremantle wharves with a view to preventing- from working men who arc de- sirous of obeying those laws? 4, What steps legislative tlscmnblp, do the Government propose to take to en- sure protection to law-abiding citizens9 Wednesday, 26t/h September, 192SS. The PREMIER replied: 1, Yes. 2, The discharge of ships' cargo is not a function F&oa Qustios: Peak Hil, geological survey .. 044 of Lte Grovernment. 3, No. 4, 1 am not Wateraido Workers' Stike .. .. 944 Fremantle Harboar. uip-river oxtension.. aware that law-abiding citizens are being Midland Company's Assets 945944 molested. Leave of absence .. 945 Dlii: Land Act Amendment, it.. ... 945 Municipal Corporations and Roasd Diatriots AOL Amendment, 1R...... 945 Town Planning and Developmsent, 1W .. 945 QUESTION-FEMANTLE HARBOUR, Wheat Bevs, Is...... 945 Railways Discontinuance, 8a.. ... 946 UP-RIVER EXTENSION. Feeding Staffs, Report .. City of Perth Superanuation Fund. 00Mn. 945 Mr. A. WANSUROLIGH asked the Min- Dog Act Amendment, Corn...... 949 Land Agents, 2R...... goo ister for Works: 1, What is the approxi- miate distance between Blackwall Reach and the present Fremantle harbour? 2, What is the average depth of water over the whole The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 distance? .3, What is the average width? p.m., and read prayers. 4, 'What would be the approximate cost of