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Portfolio Committee No. 1 – Premier and Finance

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Portfolio Committee No. 1 – Premier and Finance PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 1 – PREMIER AND FINANCE Thursday, 25 February 2021 Examination of proposed expenditure for the portfolio area SPECIAL MINISTER OF STATE, PUBLIC SERVICE AND EMPLOYEE RELATIONS, ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS AND THE ARTS UNCORRECTED The Committee met at 9:30 MEMBERS The Hon. Tara Moriarty (Chair) The Hon. Robert Borsak (Deputy Chair) Ms Cate Faehrmann The Hon. Wes Fang The Hon. Be Franklin The Hon. Courtney Houssos The Hon. Walt Secord The Hon. Adam Searle Mr David Shoebridge The Hon. Natalie Ward PRESENT The Hon. Don Harwin, Special Minister of State, and Minister for the Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs, and the Arts CORRECTIONS TO TRANSCRIPT OF COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS Corrections should be marked on a photocopy of the proof and forwarded to: Budget Estimates secretariat Room 812 Parliament House Macquarie Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 Thursday, 25 February 2021 Legislative Council Page 1 The CHAIR: Welcome to the public hearing of Portfolio Committee No. 1 and its inquiry into the 2020-2021 budget estimates. Before I commence, I acknowledge the Gadigal people, who are the traditional custodians of this land. I also pay respect to Elders past, present and emerging of the Eora nation and extend that respect to other Aborigines present. I welcome Minister Harwin and accompanying officials to this hearing. Today the Committee will examine the proposed expenditure for the portfolios of Special Minister of State, Public Service and Employee Relations, Aboriginal Affairs and the Arts. Today's hearing is open to the public and is being broadcast live via the Parliament's website. In accordance with the broadcasting guidelines, while members of the media may film or record Committee members and witnesses, people in the public gallery should not be the primary focus of any filming or photography. I also remind media representatives that you must take responsibility for what you publish about the Committee's proceedings. The guidelines for the broadcast of proceedings are available from the secretariat. All witnesses in budget estimates have a right to procedural fairness according to the procedural fairness resolution adopted by the House in 2018. There may be some questions that a witness could only answer if they had more time or with certain documents to hand. In those circumstances, witnesses are advised that they can take a question on notice and provide the answer within 21 days. Minister Harwin, I remind you and the officers accompanying you that you are free to pass notes and refer directly to your advisers seated behind you and around the room. Any messages from advisers or members of staff seated in the public galley should be delivered through the Committee secretariat. We expect the transcript of this hearing will be available on the web from tomorrow morning. I remind everybody to turn their mobile phones to silent for the duration of the hearing. All witnesses need to be sworn in, except of course Minister Harwin. I remind you that you do not need to be sworn as you have already sworn an oath to your office as a member of Parliament. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 1 – PREMIER AND FINANCE UNCORRECTED Thursday, 25 February 2021 Legislative Council Page 2 LILIAN GORDON, Head, Aboriginal Affairs NSW, affirmed and examined TIM REARDON, Secretary, Department of Premier and Cabinet, sworn and examined KATE FOY, Deputy Secretary, Community Engagement, Department of Premier and Cabinet, affirmed and examined CHARLIE HEUSTON, Executive Director, Employee Relations, Department of Premier and Cabinet, affirmed and examined KATHRINA LO, NSW Public Service Commissioner, NSW Public Service Commission, affirmed and examined MICHAEL BRAND, Director, Art Gallery of New South Wales, affirmed and examined NICOLE COURTMAN, Registrar, Aboriginal Land Rights Act 1983, affirmed and examined LOUISE HERRON, Chief Executive Officer, Sydney Opera House, affirmed and examined LISA HAVILAH, Chief Executive Officer, Museum of Applied Arts and Sciences, affirmed and examined CHRIS KEELY, Executive Director, Create NSW, Department of Premier and Cabinet, affirmed and examined The CHAIR: Today's hearing will be conducted from 9.30 a.m. to 12.30 p.m. with the Minister, and then from 2.00 p.m. to 5.00 p.m. with departmental witnesses, with questions from the Opposition and crossbench members rotating—as I think you have probably all experienced before. There is no provision for witnesses to make an opening statement in this hearing, so we will begin with questions from the Opposition. Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: We did agree to have a short break at 11.00 a.m. did we not? The CHAIR: Sure. Questions? The Hon. WALT SECORD: Thank you, Minister. Welcome. Just a couple of questions in relation to the Powerhouse Museum. On 15 February at a parliamentary hearing— The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: He is smirking already. The Hon. WALT SECORD: —I asked about a completion date. In Parliament I also asked about a completion date, and the president or chair of the board of trustees said that he had a "ballpark date" and that he would take it on notice. You said in the Parliament, by the end of 2024. What is the date for the completion of the Powerhouse Museum? The Hon. DON HARWIN: There is no change to any of the answers I have previously given, which is that our expectation—you asked a large number of questions in relation to this in what I will refer to as the museums inquiry and I was fairly clear and consistent—is that it will be finished by the end of 2024. But let us be clear about this: You cannot be absolutely precise about a completion date for a whole series of factors. One of the big unknowns is now of course resolved, and that is that the project has achieved State significant development [SSD] approval. That is one factor, one unknown, that has been taken out. The second unknown is, of course, after a tenderer for the major construction contract is chosen—which we expect to be towards the middle of the year—there is then a process of work that will be overseen by Infrastructure NSW with the tenderer and also with the museum to finalise some of the matters involved with construction. Then, of course, there is the issue of the weather. All things being equal, if everything goes okay we expect it to be finished by the end of 2024. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Does the end of 2024 indicate December 2024? The Hon. DON HARWIN: For all of the reasons that I have just gone through, it is not possible to be more precise than that. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Than the end of 2024? The Hon. DON HARWIN: Yes. That is our expectation at present. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Minister, according to the project timeline the demolition of the car park is meant to begin 18 May this year. Have you awarded— The Hon. DON HARWIN: Sorry, May? PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 1 – PREMIER AND FINANCE UNCORRECTED Thursday, 25 February 2021 Legislative Council Page 3 The Hon. WALT SECORD: Eighteen May 2021. This year. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I did not know it was that precise, but in any case I do not think it is. But yes, go on, ask the question. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Has a contract been awarded to carry out that work? The Hon. DON HARWIN: No, it has not been awarded yet. It is very close to being awarded but I do not think it has been awarded yet. Is that right, Ms Havilah? Ms HAVILAH: Yes. The Hon. DON HARWIN: Yes, that is correct. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Okay, it is close to being awarded. Minister, regarding the Parramatta Powerhouse site, the SSD approval indicates that there is going to be apartments on the site. The Hon. DON HARWIN: No. There are some— The Hon. WALT SECORD: No? I have the—it does say apartments— The Hon. DON HARWIN: Yes, there is a nomenclature—I think all there is, is basically what is otherwise referred to within the project team as the Academy, which, as I have described before, is a place where researchers and visiting school students from regional New South Wales can stay. Saying it is apartments might be the nomenclature that is used there but this idea that there will be residential apartments, if that is what you are suggesting, that will be sold is just completely untrue. The Hon. WALT SECORD: I was not saying that. The Hon. DON HARWIN: No, but I just do not want it to be in any way unclear. The Hon. WALT SECORD: Okay, let us explore this and you can educate the community on this. In the past six months the commentary has said 100 apartments, 60 apartments, 56 apartments, two-bedroom apartments, and capsule accommodation—Japanese-style subway station accommodation for students. Page 6 of the approval states: A11. The maximum number of serviced apartments shall not exceed 30 apartments. It also states: A12. The maximum number of dormitory beds … shall not exceed 56 beds … How many apartments are there going to be above the Parramatta Powerhouse site? The Hon. DON HARWIN: There are a number of assumptions there that I do not think you are entitled to make— The Hon. WALT SECORD: It is not an assumption; it is in the approval— The Hon. NATALIE WARD: Just let the Minister answer the question. You have asked the question; let him answer it. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I do not think you are entitled to make an assumption necessarily that they are above. Again, I reiterate— Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE: They are not going to be underground. The Hon. DON HARWIN: I think it is important that it be re-emphasised that we are building a— The Hon.
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