1 Nljc.Oh.J Starr Exit Interview with Joyce Starr, Assistant to Joseph

Exit Interview with Joyce Starr, Assistant to Joseph Aragon Interviewer: David Alsobrook, Presidential Papers Staff. March 29, 1979, April 3, 1979, and May 3, 1979 Location: Room 189, Executive Office Building Transcribers: Winnie Hoover & Lyn Kirkland Interview 1, Side 1, Tape 1 Alsobrook: Exit interview with Joyce Star, associate to Joe Aragon, March 29th, 1979, 2:00 pm, in OEOB, room 189, interviewer is David Alsobrook with Presidential Papers staff. Ok, like I told you the other day, I want to concentrate first of all on your duties here in the White House and, if time permits, we can talk briefly about your work before you came to the White House, including the ’76 campaign and transition. Joyce, what positions have you held in this White House? Starr: Well, I started as an Associate, what I, Associate Special Assistant to the President under Midge Costanza was. That was for, I guess, well over a year. I’m not sure when it began, or when it ended. I know when it began, when I first came into the White House. From there I was transferred to Joe Aragon’s staff and maintained the title, however, of Associate Special Assistant to the President. In fact, I never worked for Joe Aragon, I worked with Bob Lipshutz. Even when I worked under Midge Costanza, I worked more specifically for Bob Lipshutz, also working for, when necessary, on certain issues, Stu Eizenstat. I am in a sense in an unstructured position or was in a relatively unstructured position. Alsobrook: Do you recall that first day on the job here? Starr: Hoo, boy, the first day I think that, I only recall trying to take an office, that we were all concerned about finding an office that would accommodate ourselves and who would come in and take them from us. I don’t remember, because it was right in the middle of the festivities. The inauguration and then the next day you were sort of here but you weren’t. I don’t remember much more than that. Alsobrook: So you’ve been here since the very beginning of the administration? Starr: Oh, yes. Alsobrook: Could you tell me what your major duties were when you first came to work here? What kind of things did you work on? 1 Nljc.oh.J_Starr Starr: I was responsible for all, for liaisons to the ethnic groups, the Hispanic groups, the Jewish groups, the handicapped groups and to anybody else that seemed to have a problem. We divided the world into approximately thirty groups. For example: Environmentalists, youth, labor, et cetera, and so forth. Each of us had maybe five to seven areas of responsibility. This went on, again, for many months. I suppose, almost till the time that Midge Costanza left. You have it? Alsobrook: All right, we were talking a little bit about what your major duties were in the Office of Public Liaison. Starr: Well, I, the point I was trying to make is that we each were absolutely overwhelmed because we divided the world into so many groups. Apparently it had also been done in somewhat the same fashion under the previous administration, but I do remember very vividly meeting after meeting, staff meeting every week, and usually there were two a week, where we would discuss how heavy our loads were, and re- allocate various groups. It was absolutely impractical, dysfunctional, and non-utilitarian. The purpose of it, the purpose of the Office of Public Liaison at that point was to have wide outreach to America and to sell them on the President and to basically to give them access, although interestingly enough, we spent months arguing about whether our job should be to sell the President or to give access, because were we a PR office or were we a unit that would build confidence simply by assisting? That broke down even into the question of, if someone had a particular problem, a case problem, let’s say, they couldn’t get their bills, their water had been turned off by the water commissioner, should we try and provide assistance? We had several- one case in particular but I think there were several, where people were, had died and they needed to be transported immediately to another city and we were asked to have the White House intervene because there were no transport facilities. Very special cases, cancer, et cetera. And, if you could imagine dealing with all organized America, the “association of this” and the “association of that “in the Jewish community alone there are thirty-four Jewish organizations and any number of sub-organizations. And in addition, being the vehicle for all of these cases. You can understand that we had a tremendous workload and we were all going quite mad, actually. Alsobrook: Well, how was the work apportioned? You mentioned that there were certain groups you were responsible for. Did you all get together with Midge Costanza and decide, who would do what? Starr: It was apportioned more on a basis of your own familiarity. I’m a sociologist and I had dealt with Hispanics in this city before I came to the job and I’m Jewish and I had organized the Jewish community for Carter in the campaign. And I had a sympathy for the handicapped, although I wasn’t too anxious to get that initially but took it on. I remember arguing over who would take the handicapped. It came down really to if there was any possible link to someone’s own background, although there were so many groups that you ended up taking up some for which you had absolutely no background for. For example, I also had not only Jewish but all religious groups. Now I knew n-, I 2 Nljc.oh.J_Starr didn’t really, and I still don’t, understand the differences between the Catholic organizations and Presbyterian organizationally, not the religion, but, and, therefore, could not really do the job in the right way, especially when you’re going, you know at 3:00 you’ve got a phone call on the, on from the La Raza, the Hispanic group and then at 3:05 you’re trying to deal with the American-Jewish Committee. It just doesn’t work out very well. Alsobrook: Did everybody in the office report directly to Midge Costanza or did you report to somebody else? Starr: To the contrary, we reported through a deputy, and Midge Costanza had three deputies. She went through deputies like water. Alsobrook: Who were some of those deputies? Starr: Ronnie Feit (Rona F. Feit), was the first, a woman. She lasted, I don’t think, much more than a month and a half. Bob Nastana, which was the second. He lasted a much longer time. He had absolutely no background in government. He was pulled from one of the major oil companies, from a southern division. He was a very terrified man, and was terrified by what he had to deal with here. And then a man named Seymour Wishman who came at the end, and finally he was asked to leave. Alsobrook: And so, all these various projects that each person worked on, you would funnel your reports through them, to Midge? Is that the way it worked? Starr: Yes. Alsobrook: Did you ever have an occasion to report directly to the President? Did you ever meet him? Starr: No, I have never met him. I met him at a social occasion. I was invited to a Passover, which is a Jewish holiday, Passover Seder at Bob Lipshutz‘s home and he was present with only Bob Lipshutz’s children and myself but I have never been given the opportunity to report to or talk to or meet the President outside that occasion and the campaign where I shook his hand. Alsobrook: In the Office of Public Liaison, in addition to this work that you describe, did you do any travel or any type of advance work? Starr: It was initially not encouraged, principally, and I’m, much of this comes out sounding very negative, but it’s the truth. You might as well have it. Midge Costanza did not want her staff to look better than she, to look, to have visibility, for example. Secondly, it wasn’t encouraged because of the White House was under the hand of Hugh Carter, who was very restrictive on the spending of money. So the Office of Public Liaison was, by and large, basically made to understand they were not to travel. This loosened up on occasion and, eventually, because you simply have to go, to different 3 Nljc.oh.J_Starr communities, depending on what was happening in order to have any credibility with them. You couldn’t say, “I’m afraid I’m not allowed to go.” But what happened was that a decision was made that you could go if they paid for your ticket. So, only under the most limited conditions did the White House ever pay for anything I did. I can remember, in fact I simply can’t remember them ever paying for an airline ticket. They paid for the taxis, but not the airline ticket. But we didn’t go very often, so again, and you see this even today. Now, it will change coming into the campaign. But there is a structural problem in a White House setting. If you, in order to do your job, you simply cannot leave. When you go away for two days, you’re gone, you’re finished.

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